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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill tells a story of how he almost got in a bar fight.
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I give Bill some life coaching, and we answer a St.
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Paddy s Day mailbag question.
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Welcome, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest-running sales training podcast created exclusively for you to help you create your own sales success.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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And I m Bill Kasky.
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We are glad you re here with us every week.
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We are here.
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Happy St.
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Paddy s Day.
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Yeah.
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I m greenless.
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I m greenless.
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Don t pitch me.
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I sound really loud.
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Don t pitch me.
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Am I loud?
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I have a bad voice, I ve been suffering from a little upper respiratory infection.
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I have a cough, I have a smokers cough when I laugh so that might show itself and I ll definitely run away from the microphone when that occurs.
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Well, I had a weird St.
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Patrick s experience today.
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So let me tell you what happened, and then you tell me what I might have done.
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I m looking for some coaching, maybe even therapy here.
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You weren t drinking green beer, were you?
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No, I was still good.
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But I went, you know, I knew we were going to be recording, so I wanted to grab a quick lunch.
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So I went to this cigar bar called Blend, and it s a
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It s a real nice place.
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They have drinks and they have sandwiches and cigars.
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And so I thought, you know what?
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St.
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Patrick s Day, I m not a big green beer guy, used to be.
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Used to rarely catch a sober breath on St.
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Patrick s Day.
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So walked in, didn t see anybody there.
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It s not obviously a big St.
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Patrick s Day thing.
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Nobody s there and I m thinking okay, where s there?
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So I grabbed a cigar.
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Yeah, and I looked around at the Behind the counter nobody there behind the bar snuck stuck my head in the kitchen kitchens dark.
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Hmm looked in both bathrooms thought well Somebody surely is here because it was open and the fan was on music was playing
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So in the back, there is a, like a private room, and you can join there, probably an annual fee, and it s paneled, it s kind of an old cigar kind of place where guys and ladies hang out, most guys probably.
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And so I just peeked my head in there, looked around, I didn t even really walk in, didn t see anybody, but as I m turning toward the door, there s a plaque right next to the door that has kind of the founding members on it.
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And in a city of a million people, usually you know people.
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So I m looking on there, guy peeks his head around the corner that works there and says, can I help you?
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I said, yeah.
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So I was looking for somebody to light this cigar.
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He goes, look, I need to ask you never to go in that room again.
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I said, okay.
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I said, I didn t, I didn t find you behind the bar.
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I wasn t sure where anybody was.
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I wanted to get my cigar lit.
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I just went in there to look.
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So now here I am starting to explain myself.
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He goes, I just said, I don t want you ever to go in that room again.
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It s private.
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And I said, well, my friend, I just said to you why I was in there.
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I thought it deserved an explanation.
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Because if I didn t explain, you might have thought I was snooping around.
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I wasn t.
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He goes, why are you giving me trouble?
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Why are you giving me trouble today?
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And I ve seen this guy before.
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And I said, man, we re off to a, this is not good.
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I don t want to talk about it anymore.
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He goes, you keep bringing it up.
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So here s a question.
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Yes.
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What should I, where did I take it off the rails?
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Well, I think when you didn t punch the guy in the face, this is when you took it off the rails.
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I let him breathe again.
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So this is my coaching that I got from Brene Brown.
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Brene Brown, who s a very famous Ted Talker that we all know.
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I was watching one of her pieces that I love so much.
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And she said, when we get frustrated with others, what if we just said to ourselves,
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I bet he s doing the best he can with what he s got today.
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And I ve noticed that when that occurs, when you get angry with someone in a public place, like I had this with an Uber driver, and I m deep breathing, I m like, you know what?
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Maybe he s having a bad day.
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Maybe he s under some pressure at work.
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Maybe something happened at home.
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And he s just having one of those days, and he s doing the best he can with what he s got.
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That s a little softening thing.
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And I did not.
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It s really hard to do.
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Yeah, it is.
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It s really hard to do.
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I ve heard people, I ve heard the saying that, you know, we re all fighting a battle in our minds that nobody is familiar with, nobody s aware of, and so we all have our stuff.
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Yes.
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I heard another phrase that might fit here.
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Okay.
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That every interaction with a human being like that is either a sign of love or a cry for help.
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And so I m not sure with him if that was a sign of love, because he s trying to save you from seeing what you shouldn t see in the private room.
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Now, would you want to join the private room?
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I might.
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Not now, probably.
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Maybe not now, yeah.
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But yeah, I mean, I would think anybody that walks in there is a prospect for the private room.
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And if you did join the private room and you disappeared, I would probably know where to find you.
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Something s going on in that room that s not pretty.
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So I went over to him before I left.
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And I said, hey, I think we got off to a bad start today.
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And I said, I m sorry.
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And I shook his hand.
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He goes, hey, I understand.
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No problem.
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That s good.
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Like, you did.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Yeah, you did.
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And then he looked at you and said, don t ever, ever go in that room.
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Don t ever go in that room again.
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All right.
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Before we get to the day s topic, Bill, I have another little personal story.
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I did something I wasn t supposed to do.
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I went to the post office, which I know I m not supposed to do.
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And I was reminded again.
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by the long line and the people that were in the line.
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And that s not bad.
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That s just the people that were in the line are the people that go to the post office.
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And I know why other people don t go to the post office.
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So that s because I use stamps.com.
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Stamps.com brings all the services of the U.S.
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Postal Service right to your fingertips without all those people in my living room.
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It s beautiful.
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Buy and print official U.S.
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postage for any letter, any package, any class of mail, and use your own computer and printer.
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Stamps.com makes it super easy.
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It sends you a digital scale, which is really fun to play with.
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Automatically calculate the exact postage you need.
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Stamps.com will even help you decide the best class of mail based on your needs.
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No need to lease a real expensive postage meter or ever go again to the post office.
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I use stamps.com for all my mailing needs, mailing stuff.
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You should too.
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Right now you can enjoy stamps.com service with a special offer that includes a four-week trial plus postage and a digital scale without long-term commitments.
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Go to stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in advanced selling.
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That s stamps.com, enter advanced selling, stamps.com.
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Never go to the post office again.
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All right.
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Question time.
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Great mailbag question from Maurice.
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Yep.
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And I assume it s Maurice.
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It could be Morris.
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I think it s Maurice.
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But it s spelled Maurice.
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OK.
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He says, happy St.
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Patrick s Day to you both.
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Big fan of the podcast.
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I listen to one episode every morning on my drive to work.
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Nice.
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I lost my, here s his first excuse.
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I lost my voice, unfortunately, which is why I m writing this and not sending you a voice recording.
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That s good.
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He goes on to talk about his family business, credit card bank business, and he says, since you guys sell products on your website and accept credit cards, I would love to get your feedback on these obstacles that I m facing when I m out selling.
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Good.
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So he s got two questions here.
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And I thought maybe we take one at a time.
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And I think both are probably fairly familiar to listeners and to us.
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I would agree.
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Why businesses are reluctant to switch vendors if you are really going to save them money?
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If a business sends you their statement, they re obviously interested, right?
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We seem
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to struggle closing them after we put together a savings analysis.
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I feel like a schlep chasing down someone where we re going to save them 25% on their credit card processing fees.
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It should be the other way around.
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They should be chasing me.
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So what should I do?
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What am I doing wrong?
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These are my words, not his.
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So that s the scenario.
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And probably not unfamiliar to you and probably one we ve had before, which is where he really believes he has something of value, his customers don t.
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Yeah, and I think Maurice has uncovered and validated a philosophy that we hold around here, is that people that like to defend the sales function and the sales process as being really, really heavily geared towards investment and price are wrong.
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And he s showing us this by buyers that won t buy when the price is low.
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Right?
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And so this, to me, is more validation than if you re running around the countryside thinking, oh, man, this is really just all up and it s just this.
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It s not, because here we ve got an example where the price is low, and people aren t switching and saying yes to that.
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So that s the first thing that I take from this question, is a really good validation point that says, hey, this is not all about price.
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Yeah, I like that.
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I like that.
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I had a thought here.
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In any kind of business like this, and you and I talked about it a little bit in pre-show, there s a cost of change that occurs, too.
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So it s not just the money you save, but what costs am I going to incur when I change, when I switch?
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A Harvard study came out several years ago that says in business-to-business sales,
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or in operations, whenever you re switching vendors, it costs 14% of annual volume to switch vendors.
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So if you re selling a million dollars worth of goods and somebody s gonna switch, it s gonna cost them 140 grand to switch.
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I don t know where they come up with that, but it is Harvard Business Review.
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The magazines are very expensive.
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So I would suggest that you think about, and almost acknowledge that up front.
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Look, I don t know if this is good, because not only can I promise you that you ll save money, but also there will be some switching costs here.
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And maybe some hidden costs that aren t really on the P&L statement, but still come up.
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That s really, really good.
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That, Maurice, what Bill just said there, there are two massively huge lessons, and for everyone else listening too, that I just want to make sure that you hear.
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The first is the focus on the cost of change and away from
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in the price, because you have to delineate that separately.
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You have to separate that for the people.
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What was the other thing you said?
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It was brilliant.
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And then I forgot.
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You just said something else that wasn t really good.
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Anyway, listen to what Bill just said.
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Well, the acknowledging, the acknowledging that, look, there will be some switching costs here.
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Yes, you have to say that to people.
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You have to put that out there for them.
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First and foremost, it s really, really, really important.
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There s a coaching element for me in this for all of us.
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And that is we talk about this idea of managing our excitement.
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When I teach it, I call this managing balance.
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And balance means sometimes we lean into a deal because we need to, and sometimes we lean back from a deal.
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And it s an art more than it is a science.
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And it s not only external in my behavior and language.
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It s also internal in my psyche.
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And I think what happens sometimes to Maurice and others, they think that this is a slam dunk no-brainer.
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They think, well, duh.
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I m going to save you 25%.
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Who wouldn t do this?
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I can tell by the way this is written.
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Right.
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Yeah, and so what that tells me, Maurice, is that you re likely showing up that way.
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You might be showing up with a presumptive energy about you, like, I know this is going to work for you.
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And it s almost like you can t wait to tell them.
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I can t wait to tell you I m going to save you 25% on this, right?
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And if you show up that way, that energy and excitement can sometimes backfire, which I think it s doing.
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And actually, I think it can backfire into skepticism.
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So if you came at me all positive, did you just write that down?
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Did you really?
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I didn t even see that.
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See why we do this, Bill?
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Isn t that great?
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Bill just wrote down the word, Brian s an idiot.
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No, he didn t say that.
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He wrote down the word skeptical.
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That s what it drives, isn t it?
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Completely.
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So your point is that, Maurice, be a little more skeptical.
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Yes.
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Don t be so eager.
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Let them sell you on why they might want to change.
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And maybe they don t.
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But I think,
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You going into the process, as you say, Brian, from a different position, not one of eagerness and proving, I m going to prove to you.
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Because it does sound like it s a great deal.
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It sounds like, man, if I can save money.
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Now, I don t know if that savings amounts to $1,000 a year or $1 million a year, but there still is a switching cost.
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And if you go in skeptical, I think it allows space for the customer to sell you.
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And I think about my own business.
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I go, OK, well, I take credit cards for my consulting practice.
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And I do like two transactions on it.
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And so if you came in and said, hey, Brian, I can save you 25% of your thing, I m like, what s all involved?
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Well, you ve got to switch that.
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Then I ve got to tell my customers to move the credit card.
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And I m like, and I m going to, like you said, I m going to totally save $18 a month.
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I m like, you know what?
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Even though it s 25%, no thanks.
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Too much work.
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Okay, so let s go to Maurice s second question, beat the you-know-what out of that.
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Number two is he says, how do I sell against big-name competitors?
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For example, we see a lot of merchants use Square, PayPal, but we have a much better program in terms of lower rates, quicker funding cycles, breach coverage protection if they get hacked, being a smaller family-owned business, we pride ourselves on customer service, not treating our customers like a small fish in a big pot.
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All right, so selling against big-name competitors and
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And I m going to go to the last sentence or two there.
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Being a small family-owned business, we pride ourselves on customer service.
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I like that.
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I m sure you do.
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I m not sure anyone really cares about that.
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That s the fear.
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Yeah.
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And I do think that one thing that I get frustrated with is when I can t get a live person on the phone when I have a customer support issue.
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So priding yourselves on customer service is the big picture.
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But if you say, look, within 15 minutes, a live person will be on the phone with you, and you can defend that,
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That, to me, would be something that would move the needle a little bit.
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But it still gets back to, you re just putting that out there as a claim and an attribute that you can t back it.
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Nope.
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And Maurice, you can t say this, first of all.
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You have to be it.
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So you can t say, we re a small family-owned business.
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We pride ourselves on customer service.
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Because talk to a big company.
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Talk to Chase Bank.
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They re pretty big.
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They re pretty good.
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Ask them if they pride themselves.
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on customer experience.
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And I m telling you, they do.
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And I found them to be pretty good at it.
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So you really have to watch that, that you think that that s an automatic, that people make this assumption because it s a family business, that they ve got good customer experience.
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The other thing you re competing against on that is the Amazon and Uber experience.
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This is something I ve been big on teaching with buyer experience, customer sales experience.
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Everyone compares everything now to the experience they have with Uber and with Amazon, which basically means I push a button on my phone and a thing shows up on my doorstep that I didn t need, but I want.
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That happens all the time, Amazon Prime.
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And so people are used to that sort of thing.
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So it s not kind of that used to be.
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you know, small family business call.
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You know, it s a little bit more than that.
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It s ease of use.
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It s user interface, right?
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And so is it real easy to install your system, or is it kind of clunky?
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If it s kind of clunky, it s not worth the 25%.
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I mean, it s really important for you to think about that.
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Yeah, I think you re right, the whole user experience thing.
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And that goes for buying, too, not just for using, but buying.
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Are you making the buyer experience, before the deal s even done, are you making that pleasant?
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Or does it feel like you re coming at people a little bit too eager?
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But I like your idea, Brian, of you look at Apple, Amazon, Uber.
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Those are very easy companies to do business with.
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And unfortunately, a lot of small businesses don t have the technology to create so that they can match that.
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I would also take something that Bill talks about a lot, which is positioning.
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Bill talks a lot about understanding yourself and where you fit in the positioning of how you show up to clients and prospects and things like that.
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I think in this case, you need to really get clear in your own mind what you re good at versus what you don t have from the big guys.
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So if you re competing, it s Chase Bank with credit card services or something.
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Like, well, they re big Chase.
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There s goods and bads to both.
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You have to recognize there s goods to bads in both, understand your goods and bads, and just own them.
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and know that some people like the safe choice perceived that they have with Chase.
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You may say, well, we re just as safe.
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And you probably are.
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But some people, they just know Chase, right?
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So it s really big, and I m safe.
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So recognize that.
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And then be OK in your own skin.
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Don t be looking across the table.
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thinking, I wish I was them.
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And they have such an advantage.
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Because I told Bill before the show, when I worked at Procter & Gamble in the consumer goods business, everybody wanted to be everybody else.
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So I wanted to be the quick, nimble startup that could come in and take market share from the big kahuna, because these small diaper manufacturers were killing me with these new startup diapers.
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They re killing me.
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They re killing me with the diapers.
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I got so passionate about diapers back then.
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I just heard it.
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It came through.
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It did.
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Did you feel that?
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Do you feel that?
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I m wearing one, Bill.
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You can t tell, can you?
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It s called a 10s.
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And then the little guys wanted to be Procter & Gamble.
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And they d say, boy, it must be nice to own the whole store.
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And the fact is, we re both right and we re both wrong.
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Right.
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Right?
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There s goods and bads to all of it.
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So the grass isn t always greener.
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So the advice there, I think, Maurice, is be the best you you can be.
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And I know it sounds weird.
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And also, if I were doing your job, I would acknowledge right up front, look, I call on a lot of people.
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Some people prefer the behemoths, the big banks, the unnamed people.
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Everything s done through an app.
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Other people like a little personal handholding.
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And so if you re in category one, we re not a fit.
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So really define clearly who you re for and who you re not for and who you are and let people show up accordingly.
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Let them opt in or opt out.
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Live.
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It just takes all the pressure off.
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Exactly.
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I would also, last thing for Maurice on that one, I would have you find things valuable to these businesses you re calling on that are outside of what you do.
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Separate you.
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Absolutely.
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So if they re a carpet cleaning service and you know a great online marketing group that you can connect with and put them in touch with that will generate leads for them, just because you re a good guy that way, that differentiates you from someone else who s just selling the credit card processing.
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Value outside of what you do.
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Good.
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OK, hope you enjoyed today s episode.
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Brian and I are on the road.
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We travel.
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We go out to sales meetings, retreats.
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What are some other names that people give these things?
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Just rollouts, launches.
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Summits.
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Summits.
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Oh, I like summits.
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You like that?
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I like summits.
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So if you have an event coming up and you want to invite Brian and I or I out, we d love to.
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hear from you and get the ball rolling, you can email us at listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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Also, if you have a question, we will be using some live questions here over the next months.
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We re going to devote a lot more time to listener questions, mailbags, because a lot of the questions we get are really awesome, so we re gonna be doing that over the next few months.
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So, see you next time.
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Bye.