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Welcome everybody to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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I m Bill Kaskin.
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I was reminded this morning, Bill, at a little speaking gig, I had a person come up to me and say, Hey, a longtime listener, local guy here in Indianapolis.
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And I said, uh, let me ask you a question.
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I m always curious.
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Did you know we were in Indianapolis and maybe know Bill, or maybe you ve heard of me and listened then, or did you listen to the podcast and then figure out we were in Indy?
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And it was the latter.
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He goes, it was the latter.
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That s always fun and interesting, isn t it?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So we re still having that.
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So if you re not in Indianapolis, we still love you.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I m still waiting for that Indianapolis Business Journal.
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We re not 100 podcasts.
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No, we re not.
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Yeah, no, we just, we should do a promotional ad campaign saying, seven years in a row, we have not been on the list.
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No, IBJ is the curse of death.
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Right?
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True.
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You got three businesses featuring the IBJ are bankrupt in two years.
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No, thank you.
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Yeah, so if you re a longtime listener, thank you very much.
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We re glad that you re here.
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If you re a new listener, be sure to go to our LinkedIn group.
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There s a lot of stuff going on there.
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And be a part of our Insider Group.
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That s a group that s a live coaching session with Bill, the first Friday of every month.
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Where are we at in the calendar?
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We re on top again for October.
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October, yeah, I was planning for October.
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We re gonna be talking about recession strategies, get ready for the recession.
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And I m actually going to be putting together a list of some of the topics that we ve covered, kind of a cheat sheet or secrets here next time we record, which will be in October.
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So yeah, go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider if you wanna see the curriculum for the next couple months.
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It s a good group, got a lot of learning that happens.
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And so- Can I do a travel shout out too, Bill?
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Oh, yeah.
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Because I m going to be this week.
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So this releases on a Monday.
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So I m actually on the football game tonight.
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Titans versus the Bills.
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And then I m flying to San Francisco.
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So if you re in the, I ve learned, you have to say Bay Area.
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Because if you say San Fran, they know you re from the Midwest or not from there.
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So you say Bay Area.
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Salesforce has a big conference called Dreamforce.
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And I will be out there doing a little speech, nothing big.
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It s got bigger names on the main stage, but we ll be on one of the small little podiums in the lawn chairs or somewhere where they ll put us.
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But if you re gonna be in the Bay Area, shoot us an email, listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com, just put in the subject line meetup, meetup Bay Area, listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com, put meetup, and then we ll see if we can get a little listener group together out there.
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Bill, wouldn t that be fun?
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Yeah, that d be fun.
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That d be good.
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That d be great.
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You know, I was talking to my wife the other day, and we were talking about humor.
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Yeah.
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And the sense of humor people have or don t have.
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Right.
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And we were commenting that it s hard to find truly funny people today.
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I ll give you that.
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And I don t know if it s
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if it s a trend, or if adults, you know, kind of delete that sense of humor when they get older, I don t know.
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But I was thinking, she asked me, what kind of sense of humor Do you have as if she doesn t know I said, Oh, I think it s sophomoric.
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I think, oh, yeah, all of my all of my humor.
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And I even mentioned your name because I said, I think that s why we have our simpatico because we do have kind of a sophomoric little, little child sense of humor.
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And I was thinking about whenever I hear the word, whenever I hear the word struggling,
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The first thing that pops into mind is Joe Namath trying to say struggling when he got in trouble on the sidelines.
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It s like somebody could just come up to me and say, I m kind of struggling.
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And to myself, I just snicker and think, why do I do that?
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That is true.
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My little phrase, I m just going to say it.
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I say, you know, I ll speak for myself.
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My male brain stopped developing at age 14.
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So it just kind of got stuck there in junior high, which is why I think Beavis and Butthead was such a popular show back in the eighties and late eighties, early nineties.
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Cause it kind of spoke to a lot of men who like Beavis and Butthead.
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And we even had a little, yeah.
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Yeah, I d say let s loosen up a little bit.
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There s enough serious stuff in the world and all this stuff that we ve been through.
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I think sometimes we just need to laugh at all this stuff because you will drive yourself nuts if you don t laugh at it.
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Just find the funny, find the humor and stuff that people say or that people do or the way people look.
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I know that s totally politically incorrect, but sometimes I see people are like, wow, where did you get that outfit from?
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And that s terrible.
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I admit it, I m sophomoric.
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Well, it s, it just is.
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It s true.
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I mean, we even had, we had something we couldn t, we had a nice little laugh before we got on air here.
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We can t talk about it because we ll get whatever we ll get, but.
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Hey, I ve got a quick quote here from a guy named Mark, Mark F. He didn t give me permission to use it, so we won t use his last name, but he s in the insider program.
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He had some very nice comments for us and I want to play.
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It s about 30 seconds.
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First off, I want to thank you and Brian for your contributions to me professionally, the group, just the whole profession in and of itself.
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A lot of tips, you know, used to be my daily routine to listen to the podcast in the morning.
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I d load them up or even on a plane when I travel today.
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Thank you.
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sincerely on many levels, uh, just, just some tactics and more over confidence building.
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I ve worked for several bosses and some were pretty lax and some were just hard hitting, you know, every hour, where are we at?
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Where are we at?
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And I would kind of like bring up some of these topics and they would just freak out.
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Like, what do you mean?
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You know, kind of drop the rope on this customer.
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No, but
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At least for me personally, I wasn t the only one thinking that.
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And I think that, and I wanted to thank you.
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And I listened to you so much, I feel like we re cousins.
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So I thought that was very kind.
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Fantastic, Mark.
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Yeah, brother.
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Very nice.
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I, you know, I don t have that many cousins.
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I feel like you need one more.
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Do you have any cousins, Bill?
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I ve got like, I actually have 14, I think.
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Yeah.
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14 cousins.
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I ve got six in Michigan that I haven t seen for decades.
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No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
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Well, that was really nice, Mark.
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Thank you.
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Sincerely.
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It s why we do this.
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It s why Bill and I do this, because we just want to be helpful and teach things and learn things.
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That s really all this.
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We just love this.
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And we love good audio.
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That s the other reason.
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Yeah, he was good.
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Really good audio.
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So thank you for listening.
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So we have to get into it.
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Yep.
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This is a topic that I ll tell you as salespeople, your first inclination when you hear the topic is going to be no thank you.
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I can t believe Bill and Brian just did that.
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Sales leaders, you re going to be like, Bill and Brian, thank you.
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I m glad you just did that.
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Both of you are right.
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Gabe, both of you are wrong.
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This is a topic that I m finding to be critically important and an underdeveloped skill that we have in all of sales.
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And the topic is inspection.
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Inspection.
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When we talk about deals and things like that, we as a profession are notorious for not dealing in what we know for sure and dealing in things that we assume, think, believe, that sort of thing.
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So much so that I invented a little cheesy word, Bill, which is a noun called think-believes, think-believes.
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And so I thought I would,
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kick around with you a little bit about what makes for good deal inspection.
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How should a manager do it?
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How should someone self-inspect?
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How should they self-inspect?
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Which is what got us off of the sophomore tangent before the show, self-inspection.
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So, so first of all, maybe just what your take on it s because I brought that topic and I would love your first hit on the topic.
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just the idea of inspecting a deal at a deep level.
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Is that good, bad, no thanks, yes please?
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Yeah I think it to me it fits in with accountability is who are we accountable to and if you have a leader or manager or if you are one I think it I think it makes sense to be a little bit more accountable and I know you re going to get into a little bit more detail about what that looks like but
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need to be accountable to ourselves.
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And it s a lot easier.
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You run groups.
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I run groups.
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It s really fascinating to me how much accountability high achievers want.
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They re not resistant to it.
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So when we finish a program and I say, OK, Carl, what are you committing to for the next two weeks?
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And he says, here s what I want to do.
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And then I come back two weeks later and say, okay, Carl, we re going to start with you.
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How d you do on that?
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If it s, and he knows there s going to be a checkup or an inspection as you would call it.
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Yeah.
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He s going to do it.
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Yep.
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He will do it.
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And if you string those things together over a year, you can get a lot done.
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And it s no wonder that
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high achievers want that because they know sometimes that they can get busy and forget about the important things.
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And if there s accountability there, or they know there s the threat of accountability, they ll do it.
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Always.
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The high achiever always, always wants inspection and welcomes it and doesn t hide from it, even if it s bad.
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And so when we are talking about inspection, I sort of, not sort of, I did come up with a little rubric.
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So if you re listening to this, here s your rubric.
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You really, in any deal, you can expect four things.
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It s very tactical.
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You can expect money, motive, process, and clear future date, or the clear next step calendar.
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Money, motive, process, clear future date.
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Money, motive, process, clear future date.
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And it s just what they say.
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Did I talk about money?
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And to what level?
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Did I talk about motive?
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That s why I talk about process.
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And did I talk about clear future date?
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Do I have a calendar next step?
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And what happens is, here s why inspection I think is so valuable, and why we suck at it so bad, is most of us are pretty nice.
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And so if Bill s one of my I ll be the manager for a second, if you re listening to this, your manager, here s how it goes.
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I go, Bill, do you have a clear future date?
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And Bill goes, Yeah, goals roleplay.
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Okay, yeah.
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Bill, you say you have a clear future date on this deal?
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I do.
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Yeah, I do.
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It was a great call.
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We had a really nice call.
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And yeah, we ve got a got a plan.
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Awesome, man.
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That s it.
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It sounds good.
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So Bill s the top guy.
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So we just stop, we stop with the first answer.
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And so with inspection, we go deeper.
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So let me demonstrate how we go deeper.
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Now.
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Same story.
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Bill, you guys, you have a clear future date on this one?
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We do.
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Yeah, we got a plan.
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Cool.
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When is it?
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Wednesday.
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For sure.
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You sound a little, it s Wednesday.
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Well, it was either Tuesday or Wednesday and we changed it a couple of times, but I think it s Wednesday.
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I think it s Wednesday.
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Okay.
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You want to, let s grab your calendar and look, see if you got it down.
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Yeah, it s Wednesday.
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Yeah.
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So you have it.
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Is it on their calendar?
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Did they accept the invite?
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I don t think they have yet.
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No, I don t think they have.
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But it s going to happen.
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Boss, it s going to happen.
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Do you not trust me, boss?
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I totally trust you.
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So salespeople are like, god, I hate this.
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This feels like micromanagement.
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It s not micromanagement.
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Here s a little mental shift.
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We are inspecting it, not them.
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It, not them.
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We re inspecting the deal, not the person.
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There s a time and place for coaching on skill and that sort of thing.
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The inspection is just to reality check the deal.
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And so as I did that with Bill, that was really funny, because that s how it goes.
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I just say, let s look at it on the calendar.
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Do they have it?
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I m leading to a yes or no.
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And then if he doesn t, all an inspection does is spit out a to-do list of things to go do or ask or find out.
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That s all it does.
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It doesn t make Bill a bad salesperson.
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It doesn t mean I don t trust him.
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We all have those.
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And so we re just inspecting.
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So and Bill said the word, remember, I told you the think believes in the roleplay Bill said, right?
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I think pretty sure I think believe pretty seems I heard one, one of my clients, we re doing this inspection bit, I go, are they talking to any other contractors other than you?
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His answer was not to my knowledge.
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Most sales managers will go right by that.
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Okay, good.
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So they re not talking to anyone.
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That s not what he said.
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He said not to my knowledge.
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He didn t say they weren t.
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He said not to my knowledge.
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So I inspect not to my knowledge.
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Then I go, so did you ask them specifically if they were talking to the contractors?
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And he said, no.
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No, I never asked him directly.
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Okay, there s a to-do, let s go ask him directly.
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That s how inspection should work.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And you leaders who are listening, managers and leaders, I think this is really vital because you might even say as you re doing this inspection, is there anything you need from me for this?
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Or is there anything you need from somebody in the company?
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Should we get a technical person?
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Because sometimes
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We, and I say sales professionals, I m one, we don t think about that stuff sometimes.
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We think about the next meeting, the next calendar.
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OK, what am I going to do?
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And so you leaders could probably say, look, tell me what your agenda is for next week.
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You haven t lined out yet.
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No, I don t yet.
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I m going to do that Monday night.
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OK, great.
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Send me a copy of it when you get it.
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I d like to see it.
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And it s not a gotcha.
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It s maybe we can all learn from each other about how the top salespeople plan their agendas.
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Yep.
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And so this is part of the community learning process to not just holding people accountable and berating them if they re not helpful, should be helpful.
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That s I m so glad you said that the whole intention behind inspection should is helpful.
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It s what it s meant to do.
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And it s meant to just get based in reality.
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That s all it s just it s not you, not them.
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It s just it.
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That I love it.
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So Bill just did it like the other sales.
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He s having agenda.
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No, no, I m gonna try to put together over the weekend.
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Most sales managers go, okay, cool.
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Good.
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Good.
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Versus saying what Bill said, which is, Hey, that s, that s great.
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Once it s done, shoot me a copy.
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We I d love to get just a fresh eyes on it and just take a look at what you re thinking on the spirit of the good of trying to be helpful.
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Yeah.
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You know, um,
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I ve been telling clients to think believe that that phrase is like the FedEx arrow.
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You know, the FedEx arrow and the logo FedEx, most people have seen by now.
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If you haven t seen it, look in the middle of the FedEx logo and you ll see a little arrow pointing to the right.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But there s something in that arrow, isn t there?
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There s another, yes.
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Oh, what is it?
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There s something on the other side of it.
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I never noticed until somebody pointed it out to me.
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Now I always know.
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There s some kind of like a face or a... That s a good question.
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I lost it.
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I don t know.
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It s just a hidden thing.
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The trick in the FedEx arrow is once you see it, though, you can never not see it again.
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Now that we ve given you this idea of
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think-believes, you re going to be amazed at how many times a day you hear it and how many times a day you say it.
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It s just crazy.
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It s cloudy and obscure, vague.
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And we re all guilty of it.
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I m guilty of it.
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If I don t have the appointment set and somebody asks me, I ll say, yeah, it s next week sometime.
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I m not sure.
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Is that a lie?
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Maybe.
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But it s just more covering your butt.
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I had a client yesterday send me his LinkedIn.
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He s a listener, actually.
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And he sent it to me, and it was, it left a lot.
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I mean, it left a lot to be desired.
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He said, hey, can you coach me on this?
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And I sent him back a note and said, I don t know if you re going to be able to coach me on this.
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And he said, I don t know if you re going to be able to coach me on this.
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And I said, I don t know if you re going to be able to coach me on this.
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Do you want my brutal, honest feedback?
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Because there s a lot here that we can do.
1
SPEAKER_01
And he said, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we went through it, and we improved it, and got it where it needed to be.
1
SPEAKER_01
But sometimes you leaders might need to say, can I coach you on this?
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I know that you think, well, wait a minute.
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I m the manager, so I shouldn t have to ask permission.
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But it s just because once somebody says, yeah, Brian, heck yeah, coach me.
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It is going to be received at a whole different level than if you just start lecturing on, look, you need to do this, and you do that, and you do this without permission for coaching.
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SPEAKER_01
And that s an old therapy thing that I learned, which is don t start making suggestions until you get permission.
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That s it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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And you know, it s very rare.
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I do this with my kids.
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I ve never wanted to be a dad coach like playing varsity football in high school for a pretty good football team.
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But I see stuff because I also watch football at a high level and I ve been doing that and it s amazing.
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I ll say, hey, are you open to me giving you some coaching or no?
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And I m fine if they say no.
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They re like, yeah, please do.
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Well, I ll give it to you anyway.
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But I think that permission thing is important, because it opens the person up immediately.
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And it s what the reason I was gonna say this is very rare, when I m doing that, that I get a response of no, it s not in the mood.
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No, because people want to know.
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And this goes also if you re in front of a client or potential client, and you have something you need to say that might be at odds with the way they re thinking, you can say, look, is it OK if I offer a suggestion that might be antithetical or might be incongruent with how you re thinking?
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Is it OK?
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And once people say yes, then you can be honest with them.
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And I just think people receive the information a lot better.
1
SPEAKER_00
What does antithetical mean?
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SPEAKER_01
I probably made that up.
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SPEAKER_01
OK.
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It probably doesn t mean what I implied.
1
SPEAKER_01
Antithetical means antithetical.
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SPEAKER_00
Antithetical.
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Irresponsible.
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Irrepressible.
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Irrepressible.
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No, it s just funny because I literally just had a conversation with a client about vocabulary.
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And I said, I m about to record a podcast.
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One of our little jokes on the podcast is I don t have a good vocabulary.
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So sometimes Bill stumps me with words.
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I don t either, but that s a four syllable one.
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That s a good one.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s good.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ll use that as inspiration.
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So takeaways from today.
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Number one, managers, start doing this inspection.
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Just go two levels past the first answer.
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Two levels past the first answer just to inspect.
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Remember, it s it, not them.
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And salespeople, Bill just said, that s it.
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Just be open to coaching.
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SPEAKER_00
Ask for the inspection.
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Have someone look over this deal.
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Say, will you look over this and tell me what I m missing?
1
SPEAKER_00
What a great way to be, huh?
1
SPEAKER_00
That s awesome.
1
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Yeah.
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And for you who are, maybe you don t have a manager who does that.
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There s no reason you can t do this yourself.
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Just look at the deals you re in and say, like Brian s rubric, it s what, do I really understand the motive?
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, they may have the motive.
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to change, but have they told you?
1
SPEAKER_01
Have they verbalized it?
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Do you understand?
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SPEAKER_01
Can you recite it back to them?
1
SPEAKER_01
And they ll say, that s exactly it, Brian.
1
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Money, have you talked about money?
1
SPEAKER_01
If it s appropriate, and sometimes you don t want to talk about money on the first call, but if the time has come where you should have talked about money and you haven t, then that s part of the checklist.
1
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And of course, process and clear future
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as well.
2
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Yeah, it s good stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hey, if you haven t joined the LinkedIn group already, please go do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
We like to post lots of stuff, including our travel plans.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ll see you all in San Francisco and then insider stuff goes up in LinkedIn group and check out the insider.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a great coaching group, live coaching for Bill first Friday of every month.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that s it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hope to see you in one of those two areas soon.
2
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for listening.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ll see you on TV tonight.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, good for you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I forgot.
2
SPEAKER_01
Good for you.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I forgot it s you.
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SPEAKER_01
I m like, tonight, I forgot.
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SPEAKER_02
Okay, that s it.
2
SPEAKER_02
See ya.
2
SPEAKER_02
Cheers.
2
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Bye.