0
SPEAKER_03
Guess what, Will?
0
SPEAKER_03
What s up, Mango?
0
SPEAKER_03
I ve been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we ve done over 250 episodes, we don t really talk about murders or cults.
0
SPEAKER_03
I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
0
SPEAKER_03
We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
0
SPEAKER_03
And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
0
SPEAKER_03
So what you re saying is everyone should be listening.
0
SPEAKER_03
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_01
A new season of Bridgerton is here.
0
SPEAKER_01
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
0
SPEAKER_01
I m your host, Gabby Collins.
0
SPEAKER_01
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
0
SPEAKER_01
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
0
SPEAKER_01
Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_01
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
0
SPEAKER_04
Hey, everybody, we are coming to a town ostensibly near you.
0
SPEAKER_04
So putatively, see us.
0
SPEAKER_02
That s right.
0
SPEAKER_02
May 29th will be in Boston, really Medford, Massachusetts.
0
SPEAKER_02
The next night, we re going to go down to Washington, D.C., and then scooch back up to New York City at Town Hall on May 31st.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, and if you re one of those people who likes to plan way far in advance, then you can go ahead and get tickets for our shows in August.
0
SPEAKER_04
We re gonna start out where, Chuck?
0
SPEAKER_02
We re gonna be in Chicago August 7th, Minneapolis August 8th, then Indianapolis for the very first time on August 9th, and then we re gonna wrap it up in Durham, North Carolina and right here in Atlanta on September 5th and September 7th.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yep, so you can get all the info you need and all the ticket links you need by going to stuffyoushouldknow.com and hitting that tour button, or you can also go to linktree.com.
0
SPEAKER_04
We ll see you guys this year.
0
SPEAKER_00
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.
0
SPEAKER_04
Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
0
SPEAKER_04
I m Josh, and there s Chuck and Jerry s here too.
0
SPEAKER_04
It s the trio, the Tom and Jerry and Jerry of podcasting.
0
SPEAKER_04
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_04
I like that.
0
SPEAKER_04
Well, no, how about Tom and Jerry and Jerry s little like nephew who s always getting in trouble, but he s super cute.
0
SPEAKER_04
Is that a character?
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
I m not sure if I remember that.
0
SPEAKER_04
He was a little gray kid in diapers.
0
SPEAKER_04
Very, very cute.
0
SPEAKER_04
Even Tom wanted to take care of him sometimes.
0
SPEAKER_02
It feels like so many shows and cartoons felt the need to bring on, like, a little cute addition every now and then, whether it was Cousin Oliver.
0
SPEAKER_02
I was gonna say him.
0
SPEAKER_02
On the Brady Bunch or, uh, Godzuki.
0
SPEAKER_02
Who?
0
SPEAKER_02
Godzilla and Godzuki.
0
SPEAKER_04
Mm-mm.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it was a little cute baby Godzilla.
0
SPEAKER_04
Oh, that s great.
0
SPEAKER_04
Way to go Godzilla, you really slipped one past the goalie.
0
SPEAKER_02
Or whoever this one, who s this one, what s his name?
0
SPEAKER_04
The nephew.
0
SPEAKER_04
I don t know, Jerry, that s why I said Tom and Jerry and Jerry.
0
SPEAKER_02
I gotcha.
0
SPEAKER_04
There s also don t forget Captain Caveman and Son.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_04
Pretty straightforward stuff.
0
SPEAKER_04
But that s not at all what we re talking about, Chuck.
0
SPEAKER_04
Let s just get serious here.
0
SPEAKER_04
Let s get down to brass tacks.
0
SPEAKER_04
Let s get down to the facts, in other words, as our Cockney friends say.
0
SPEAKER_04
We re talking about misphonia.
0
SPEAKER_04
And there was an O in there somewhere, but my voice hitched.
0
SPEAKER_04
Misophonia.
0
SPEAKER_04
And it s possible I just accidentally set some people off because when I said it that second time, I articulated it clearly, the O. And vocal articulation or speech articulation, where you re really pronouncing a phoneme, can trigger misophonia, which we should say means hatred of sound and is essentially a
0
SPEAKER_04
outraged, nervous reaction to sounds that make the other, the average person doesn t even notice.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and we ll get into all of the stuff here with misophonia.
0
SPEAKER_02
But it seems to be more like, generally more like sounds people make, like you often hear about chewing food or lip smacking or chewing gum, just sort of like body sounds that people make, yawning sometimes.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, particularly orofacial, like the stuff you do with your mouth and stuff.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, or nose, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
So that s typically it.
0
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you know, there s a range of stuff, but I thought maybe we could chat very briefly just about sounds that you hate.
0
SPEAKER_02
Like if you have any triggering sounds at all.
0
SPEAKER_04
Trigger is probably a strong word because I don t like fly into rage.
0
SPEAKER_04
I don t necessarily feel disgust.
0
SPEAKER_04
Like the closest would be someone using a leaf blower.
0
SPEAKER_04
I just think those are the worst people on the planet.
0
SPEAKER_02
I forgot about that.
0
SPEAKER_02
Your long-running feud with the... I can t stand them, Chuck.
0
SPEAKER_02
The blowers.
0
SPEAKER_02
I know.
0
SPEAKER_02
I m with you.
0
SPEAKER_02
So, I have a couple of things, but similarly to you, similarly... Uh-oh.
0
SPEAKER_02
Here we go.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s like a noise thing, like an ambulance crossing close by.
0
SPEAKER_02
Like, I plug my ears like a five-year-old.
0
SPEAKER_02
I can t take it.
0
SPEAKER_04
How about those new ambulance sirens that are like,
0
SPEAKER_02
I don t know if I ve heard those.
0
SPEAKER_02
They re bonkers.
0
SPEAKER_02
But if I m on a street and there s like a rush of emergency services, I have to plug my ears.
0
SPEAKER_02
When I m using an airplane toilet, I have to plug my ears for that succubus flush sound.
0
SPEAKER_02
I cannot hear it.
0
SPEAKER_02
But those I think are just like loud noises, which as we ll see isn t the same as misophonia.
0
SPEAKER_02
The closest I can come with misophonia as far as like a emotional thing that really feels like it s connected to my brain is hearing two kinds of music at the same time.
0
SPEAKER_02
And it s when Ruby was growing up.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s a big thing When like we d be playing music and she would come into the room with some dumb kid toy that plays music.
0
SPEAKER_02
Mm-hmm And it just it makes me crazy and angry very fast and and it s clear.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s not just like oh that annoys me It s like a real thing.
0
SPEAKER_04
You re like I m trying to listen to pavement.
0
SPEAKER_04
I
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but it triggers me in such a way that I m like, oh, I think I understand that neuro-connective annoyance, which is not the same as just like, oh, I don t like that sound.
0
SPEAKER_04
So Yubi has misophonia.
0
SPEAKER_04
She s never been clinically diagnosed, but she very much has it.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_04
Oh, yeah, for sure.
0
SPEAKER_04
It s like the orofacial stuff, like chewing, that kind of stuff.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, wow.
0
SPEAKER_02
And you re just now telling me this?
0
SPEAKER_02
I know.
0
SPEAKER_04
It s just fun to sit back and observe when you guys are all in the same room together.
0
SPEAKER_02
Right.
0
SPEAKER_04
Um, so she has like, I would say maybe middling, middling, um, misophonia.
0
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_04
She can control it.
0
SPEAKER_04
But I think if there s like, if she s having a bad enough day, um, or she s stressed or something like that, and it s triggered, she d be more likely to be like, can you chew any louder?
0
SPEAKER_04
Something like that.
0
SPEAKER_04
Right.
0
SPEAKER_04
But normally she can like just kind of.
0
SPEAKER_04
Just chill and deal with it.
0
SPEAKER_04
But now that I ve done the research, I m like, man, I feel for her more than I ever have before as far as that stuff is concerned.
0
SPEAKER_04
And it s not like this is news to me.
0
SPEAKER_04
I knew she had misophonia.
0
SPEAKER_04
I understand it.
0
SPEAKER_04
But just the degree that it affects people, she just plays it really cool.
0
SPEAKER_04
And knowing now that what s going on inside of her while she s playing it cool makes me never want to eat around her again just out of support.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, well, A, that s sweet.
0
SPEAKER_02
B, playing it cool is the Yumi way.
0
SPEAKER_02
So that doesn t surprise me.
0
SPEAKER_02
And C, you mentioned her, if she s already anxious or something about something else.
0
SPEAKER_02
Like, as we ll see, there are comorbidities that can definitely make it worse.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I imagine just being in an anxious state, like with anything else, something annoying could push you over the edge.
0
SPEAKER_04
Exactly.
0
SPEAKER_04
You re already right there.
0
SPEAKER_04
And yes, it s an emotional reaction, a profound emotional reaction.
0
SPEAKER_04
And you said something else too that I think is worth really kind of digging into for a second.
0
SPEAKER_04
Like, you don t like ambulances.
0
SPEAKER_04
Nobody likes the sound of ambulances.
0
SPEAKER_04
The ambulance siren is designed to annoy you, to basically get you out of the way, to catch your attention, right?
0
SPEAKER_04
But not in a good way.
0
SPEAKER_04
They don t want you standing around like jamming out to the siren or something, right?
0
SPEAKER_04
So that makes sense.
0
SPEAKER_04
Someone chewing, the sound of someone chewing doesn t send the average person into a state of like anger or in severe cases, like rage.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_04
You know, where you re yelling at the other person because they re chewing like a normal person.
0
SPEAKER_04
That s really where misophonia begins, where just a sound that wouldn t really upset anybody else really affects you.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, absolutely.
0
SPEAKER_02
And we heard from the reason, I mean, we re getting to it kind of late, but when we did our ASMR episode, we heard from a lot of people with
1
SPEAKER_02
misophonia that were like, hey, a lot of this episode triggered me and like it s a real thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I think we might have even.
1
SPEAKER_02
poked fun at it a little bit.
1
SPEAKER_02
And we re like even doing like smacking sounds and things because we were oblivious at the time to what a real thing it is.
1
SPEAKER_02
So we were doing this to make up for that in a way.
1
SPEAKER_02
And we re not going to give examples of sounds because we do know that it s a serious thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s not something to be made fun of or laughed at.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s to be taken seriously.
1
SPEAKER_02
And that is part of the history of misophonia.
1
SPEAKER_02
and continuing history, is clinicians basically being like, I don t know what this is, but you learn to deal with it if you don t like the way your husband chews.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, let s talk about history.
1
SPEAKER_05
One of the reasons why people who finally go in to get diagnosed and treated for misophonia, one of the reasons they run into that kind of thing, their doctor might tell them just wear earplugs or get a hold of yourself or something like that.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_05
Or their psychologist might be like, you clearly have other issues.
1
SPEAKER_05
This is just some symptom of it.
1
SPEAKER_05
Misophonia is like a very new thing.
1
SPEAKER_05
It has no clinical definition anywhere.
1
SPEAKER_05
Apparently there was a committee that got together as recently as like, I think 2014, 15, 16.
1
SPEAKER_02
Pretty print very recently.
1
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_02
2022 was when the expert committee got together.
1
SPEAKER_05
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_05
So, so during COVID that s how recent this was.
1
SPEAKER_05
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_05
They re like, I guess we ll get around to it.
1
SPEAKER_05
But they finally said, OK, this is a thing.
1
SPEAKER_05
This is what this thing consists of.
1
SPEAKER_05
And this is how we think maybe you could conceivably treat it.
1
SPEAKER_05
It s that new.
1
SPEAKER_05
It was only back in 2001 that it was first described.
1
SPEAKER_05
2001, the 21st century.
1
SPEAKER_05
It s like a brand new disorder.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, in 2001, that was when a couple that is going to figure pretty heavily in this one, because there they were sort of the OGs, Powell and Margaret Jasterboff.
1
SPEAKER_02
They were from Poland, the married couple.
1
SPEAKER_02
They were professors of otolaryngology.
1
SPEAKER_02
Laryngology.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Geez, I had it right.
1
SPEAKER_02
It sounds funny.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s an ENT study, basically.
1
SPEAKER_02
They were here at Emory, I guess, in Atlanta, and Powell was studying tinnitus, TRT specifically, tinnitus retraining therapy.
1
SPEAKER_02
And Margaret, she was studying cancer research, but was like, I m also involved in this tinnitus thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
And we re both going all in.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s 2001 on, what do they call the grouping?
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh, here it is.
1
SPEAKER_05
Oversensitive hearing.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, decreased sound tolerance conditions, DST conditions, which at the time included hyperacusis, phonophobia with a B, and then misophonia with an N. Yeah, that s a lot of info.
1
SPEAKER_02
It is a lot of info.
1
SPEAKER_05
And by the way, I can just hear you saying, like, I had a bout of tinnitus while I was getting a tattoo.
1
SPEAKER_05
I m going with tinnitus.
1
SPEAKER_05
All right.
1
SPEAKER_05
I m also going with Pawel, because they re from Poland.
1
SPEAKER_05
So I think his name s Pawel.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh, it s a W-A-R.
1
SPEAKER_05
I think so.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, you re probably right.
1
SPEAKER_05
I think they actually spell vodka with a W over there.
1
SPEAKER_05
It s just off the wall.
1
SPEAKER_02
What a time to be alive.
1
SPEAKER_05
Right.
1
SPEAKER_05
So at first they were saying like, OK, there s all these things that are kind of lumped together.
1
SPEAKER_05
Like you said, the DSTs, decreased sound tolerance.
1
SPEAKER_05
And they can kind of present in different ways.
1
SPEAKER_05
Hyperacusis is definitely its own thing.
1
SPEAKER_05
They think that maybe something happened to your ear, you damaged it.
1
SPEAKER_05
There s a facial muscle that controls it, that controls like how much your ear intensifies or amplifies the sound.
1
SPEAKER_05
And if that muscle s damaged, that sound is going to just come raging through your brain.
1
SPEAKER_05
So if you hear somebody typing on a keyboard, you might have to crawl under your desk and want to die.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s like Batman.
1
SPEAKER_02
Because it seems like really loud, though, not annoying.
1
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I m sure it s annoying, but it s the decibel level that s the issue.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, it seems to have more of a, produce more of a physical reaction than just an emotional reaction.
1
SPEAKER_05
And if it is an emotional reaction, it seems to be more like suffering than rage.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_05
Phonophobia, they were like, okay, that s a separate thing too, for now.
1
SPEAKER_05
And that is a fear of loud sounds.
1
SPEAKER_05
And the reason that it s a phobia is because you re afraid of loud sounds that can t actually hurt you, like the sound of traffic or the sound of emergency services.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, an ambulance or something like that.
1
SPEAKER_02
Or a toilet in a plane.
1
SPEAKER_05
So if you felt fear while you were plugging your ears and maybe even ran away, you would probably have phonophobia.
1
SPEAKER_02
No, it doesn t reach those levels.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s just it bothers me and I m not afraid to look like a five-year-old in public.
1
SPEAKER_05
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_05
Man, I want to see that so bad.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m surprised.
1
SPEAKER_02
No, surely I ve done that in front of you.
1
SPEAKER_02
Maybe not.
1
SPEAKER_02
I have not seen it.
1
SPEAKER_02
I would definitely remember that.
1
SPEAKER_02
I know one thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
We ve never been in an airplane bathroom together.
1
SPEAKER_05
That s true.
1
SPEAKER_05
You know what I m going to do is next time we re on tour and we re hanging out backstage, I m going to start a fire and sit around and wait for the show.
1
SPEAKER_05
That s a great idea.
1
SPEAKER_05
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_05
And then there s misophonia too, which is the topic of this episode.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and I think they went on, you know, kind of studying that stuff for about a dozen years, and then in 2014 is when they said, and this is the couple, the Jastrboffs, yeah?
1
SPEAKER_02
Jastrboffs.
1
SPEAKER_02
Or it s probably Jastrboff, huh?
1
SPEAKER_02
Pavel Jastrboff is what I m going with.
1
SPEAKER_02
That sounds so much better than Powell Jasterboff.
1
SPEAKER_02
Jasterboff?
1
SPEAKER_02
Jasterboff.
1
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, they got together in 2014 and said, dear, I think we should reorganize this stuff.
1
SPEAKER_02
And Margaret said, don t call me dear.
1
SPEAKER_02
We re in a professional environment.
1
SPEAKER_02
Also, could you chew any louder?
1
SPEAKER_02
Could you chew any louder?
1
SPEAKER_02
And they said, let s just reorganize our taxonomy here.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I believe what they did was they tucked the the phobia under, phonophobia under misophonia and basically said there s pretty much two things, hyperacusis or misophonia with phonophobia underneath phonia.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, you kind of touched on the distinction between them two.
1
SPEAKER_05
Hyperacusis is some sort of mechanical issue, they think.
1
SPEAKER_05
It s not in the brain.
1
SPEAKER_05
It s just like the sound itself is being delivered to your brain way louder than it is to other people for some reason.
1
SPEAKER_05
But with misophonia and phonophobia, the research seems to strongly suggest that not only does it have a neurobiological, a brain basis,
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_05
It also may even have a genetic basis as well, they re starting to figure out.
1
SPEAKER_05
So, it is definitely something going on with your neurology.
1
SPEAKER_05
And again, just in 2022, they finally created a diagnostic definition of misophonia.
1
SPEAKER_05
So, we have no idea what actually causes misophonia.
1
SPEAKER_05
But the studies that are out are pretty interesting, and they seem to point to
1
SPEAKER_05
Something that I will, I ll point it out when we get to it, but I think it s the, it s the smoking gun.
1
SPEAKER_05
It s the reason for misophonia, if you ask me.
1
SPEAKER_02
Ooh, well, that sounds like a fun cliffhanger.
1
SPEAKER_05
Oh, I agree.
1
SPEAKER_02
All right.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, you know what they say, if you introduce a smoking gun in act one, you have to fire it in act three.
1
SPEAKER_05
That s right.
1
SPEAKER_02
So we ll be back right after this commercial break.
1
SPEAKER_04
Guess what, Bango?
1
SPEAKER_04
What s up, Will?
1
SPEAKER_04
So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
1
SPEAKER_03
I know, that s why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it s called Earthquake House.
1
SPEAKER_04
Mango, I m going to cut you off right there.
1
SPEAKER_03
Why don t we just tell people about our show instead?
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that s a better idea.
1
SPEAKER_03
So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world s most important questions.
1
SPEAKER_03
Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
1
SPEAKER_03
Is William Shatner s best acting work in Esperanto?
1
SPEAKER_03
Also, what happened to Esperanto?
1
SPEAKER_04
Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
1
SPEAKER_04
How do dollar stores stay in business?
1
SPEAKER_04
And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
1
SPEAKER_04
There absolutely is.
1
SPEAKER_03
And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
1
SPEAKER_03
But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius.
1
SPEAKER_04
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_01
Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m Andrea Gunning, and now we re sharing an all-new story of betrayal.
1
SPEAKER_01
Stacey thought she had the perfect husband.
1
SPEAKER_01
Doctor, father, family man.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford to hide behind.
1
SPEAKER_00
led me into the house.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I mean, it was like a movie.
1
SPEAKER_00
He was sitting at our kitchen table.
1
SPEAKER_00
The cops were guarding him.
1
SPEAKER_01
Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save
2
SPEAKER_01
I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed.
2
SPEAKER_00
He did not just say, I wish he was dead.
2
SPEAKER_00
He actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him.
2
SPEAKER_01
He, to me, is scarier than Jeffrey Dahmer.
2
SPEAKER_00
Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_01
A new season of Bridgerton is here.
2
SPEAKER_01
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m your host, Gabrielle Collins.
2
SPEAKER_01
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
2
SPEAKER_01
Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
2
SPEAKER_01
Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown s pen.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re discussing it all.
2
SPEAKER_01
I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
2
SPEAKER_01
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
2
SPEAKER_01
Then, fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_01
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
2
SPEAKER_03
All right, so we re back talking misophonia.
2
SPEAKER_03
One thing we should mention is, as the Yastroboffs... They are in there.
2
SPEAKER_03
What is going on with me?
2
SPEAKER_03
The Yastroboffs were doing their work.
2
SPEAKER_03
It started to become just a more known thing on the Internet.
2
SPEAKER_03
In 2011, there was a New York Times article by Joyce Cohen that sort of got it out there in a more public way.
2
SPEAKER_03
the growth of Internet forums and Reddit and stuff like that, all of a sudden people are getting online and saying in the 2010s and saying like, hey, wait a minute, like I ve been living this my whole life.
2
SPEAKER_03
No one s ever taken me seriously.
2
SPEAKER_03
And that s kind of one of the can be one of the great things about the Internet is bringing people together for a common ailment that had not previously been taken seriously.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, for sure.
2
SPEAKER_02
That Joyce Cohen New York Times article from 2011, by the way, is called When a Chomp or a Slurp is a Trigger for Outrage.
2
SPEAKER_02
And like you said, it really helped a lot of people, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
So flash forward to 2022, we ve got the diagnostic kind of definition of it.
2
SPEAKER_02
And what they figured out is that when you have a bout of misophonia, when you re triggered, the sound triggers you,
2
SPEAKER_02
Not only do you have like an emotional reaction, typically it s anger, anxiety, disgust.
2
SPEAKER_02
And again, like this is a pronounced emotional reaction.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s not like you re just kind of a little annoyed, like you re disgusted.
2
SPEAKER_02
There is, Olivia helps us with this and she turned up, I think on a Reddit board that somebody who, if you heard the sound of somebody clipping their toenails, you d be so disgusted that you would not be able to like drink coffee even 20 minutes later.
2
SPEAKER_02
Just stuff like that.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t like that one.
2
SPEAKER_02
So that s discussed, but I think that kind of the classic emotion is rage or anger, usually associated with it.
2
SPEAKER_02
So in addition to the emotional component, there s also a physical component too, and it s been documented.
2
SPEAKER_02
These things happen to your body when you re suffering about a misophonia.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, and they sort of smack of, sorry, I don t even know if these words trigger, like chomp and smack.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, probably.
2
SPEAKER_03
So I didn t mean to say that, but, you know, like anxiety, it sort of mirrors anxiety.
2
SPEAKER_03
Your blood pressure might go up.
2
SPEAKER_03
You might start sweating.
2
SPEAKER_03
You might get tightness in the chest, goosebumps.
2
SPEAKER_03
I think I said heart rate.
2
SPEAKER_03
And it s not necessarily, you know, it kind of depends on the person as to whether or not there s a single trigger that affects you or whether you have a lot of them.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s not always the same in everybody.
2
SPEAKER_03
And there s also behavioral responses.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like you said, if maybe Yumi was having a particularly bad day, she might be glaring at you from across the dinner table.
2
SPEAKER_03
And you re like, stop with the fork in your mouth.
2
SPEAKER_03
You re like, what?
2
SPEAKER_02
I ve got a chunk of spaghetti hanging out of the side of my mouth.
2
SPEAKER_03
Now you know what.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I knew what before, but again, like I just did not, I hadn t done the research.
2
SPEAKER_02
I hadn t been around it long enough.
2
SPEAKER_02
I d never met anybody with it before.
2
SPEAKER_02
So yes, I was, gosh, man, I guess I wasn t a very good husband for a little while there.
2
SPEAKER_03
No, you were fine.
2
SPEAKER_03
You just didn t know.
2
SPEAKER_03
We re all better people now than we were when we got together.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s true.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s true.
2
SPEAKER_02
I like to think that too, Chuck.
2
SPEAKER_03
But it can lead to, like you said, ragey episodes.
2
SPEAKER_03
And it s pretty rare, but it can lead to actual, like, violence, suicidal feelings, self-harm.
2
SPEAKER_03
I think they ve documented that that s almost always isolated to cases where people have, you know, some other mental condition that is comorbid with, like, it may be a last straw kind of thing.
2
SPEAKER_03
But it can, you know, it s, again, just more than an annoyance.
2
SPEAKER_03
And I think that s probably the name of this episode.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think you re right.
2
SPEAKER_02
You hit upon it.
2
SPEAKER_02
There s also some other things that studies have turned up.
2
SPEAKER_02
They found that people with misophonia don t respond to loud noises any different typically than other people.
2
SPEAKER_02
So, somebody with misophonia probably wouldn t respond with a misophonia response to those ambulance sirens, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
It s more usually kind of softer
2
SPEAKER_02
probably wet or something like that sounds.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m sorry, I m really trying not to, but it would make sense why the ASMR episode set so many people off, because it s exactly those kind of soft sounds, chewing.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s why if somebody s like, can you chew any louder?
2
SPEAKER_02
You re like,
2
SPEAKER_02
I m not doing anything unusual, but you re making a soft sound.
2
SPEAKER_02
And that is what they hone in on.
2
SPEAKER_02
So there s no difference between someone with misophonia and someone without it as far as loud sounds go.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s where the softer sounds are.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then other sounds that upset most people, again, this ambulance siren well is still very deep.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m going to go back to it again.
2
SPEAKER_02
But also like a baby crying or something like that.
2
SPEAKER_02
Who wants to hear that?
2
SPEAKER_02
Nobody.
2
SPEAKER_02
And that includes people with misophonia, but that doesn t necessarily trigger rage in them or misophonia.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
And, you know, in cases of babies crying, even if you don t have misophonia, a lot of times that is coupled with lack of sleep from new parents.
2
SPEAKER_03
And it can get pretty severe.
2
SPEAKER_03
I mean, we were lucky with the sleep situation, but I ve heard horror stories of new parents who are getting, you know, three hours of sleep a night and a colicky baby.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s just it s it s terrible.
2
SPEAKER_03
You know, I feel so much empathy for those situations.
2
SPEAKER_03
But back to misophonia, I guess I was just sympathizing for a minute.
2
SPEAKER_03
If we re going to talk about how many people have this, the Yastra boss did a, I guess, just sort of a round guess of 3.2% in 2014.
2
SPEAKER_03
But they base that on people who came in seeking treatment that also usually had tinnitus.
2
SPEAKER_03
And obviously, you know, we ve said this before about lots of things.
2
SPEAKER_03
You can t really base a number like that on people who seek help because so many people don t, especially when it s something like this that s underdiagnosed and treated.
2
SPEAKER_02
Right.
2
SPEAKER_02
So, other people who ve studied it are saying, no, it s more like 20% of the entire population.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s a lot of people who have misophonia.
2
SPEAKER_02
They also think that women are overrepresented among people with misophonia as much as 83% of people with misophonia might be women.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then there s one other very important thing that we need to point out.
2
SPEAKER_02
People with misophonia do not have better or more acute hearing than anybody else.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s not the problem.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s not it.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s a difference in the way their brain is connected is what it seems like.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
Well, we should, I mean, that s a good setup for getting into the brain.
2
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ve been doing this for years now.
2
SPEAKER_03
If you re wondering if they ever stuck somebody into a wonder machine and smack some oatmeal in their ears, then the answer is yes, of course they have.
2
SPEAKER_03
They have done experiments.
2
SPEAKER_03
But as we ll see, there haven t been a ton of them because it is so new and probably underfunded.
2
SPEAKER_03
But they did put people in an fMRI machine, the wonder machine, and they found that the anterior insular cortex, the AIC, which, and this makes total sense, it helps integrate sensory data from organs and stuff like that.
2
SPEAKER_03
But it s also associated with the parts of the brain that are responsible for, like,
3
SPEAKER_00
emotion, fear, long-term memory and stuff like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, here s this is where I think the smoking gun is the AIC.
3
SPEAKER_00
Act two, we re a little early.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because, well I haven t fired it yet.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m about to though.
3
SPEAKER_01
The anterior insular cortex is also a major component of what s called the salience network, which is the region or the network of your brain that takes stimuli from the environment, like you said, from even down to your internal organs, and sorts through all of it and says, not important, not important, not important.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s important, and amplifies it up the chain.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it keeps getting amplified and passing through more and more filters until it becomes
3
SPEAKER_01
the brain s awareness or attention becomes focused on it, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So that salience network is like, that s important.
3
SPEAKER_01
We need to let the brain s consciousness in on this thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
And now all of a sudden, you re paying attention to that stimulus.
3
SPEAKER_01
What they think, what I think in particular, is that there s a hyperactivity and or hyperconnectivity
3
SPEAKER_01
within the AIC that takes things that other people are able to filter out and turns them into a sound that can trigger you emotionally.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s because your salience network is basically supercharged.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that would actually back up what they did with the studies with the MRI scans, not the fMRI, correct?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, where they turned up the medial frontal cortex
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, well, what they found was what you just said, the medial frontal cortices, if you have misophonia, they have more myelin, which we ve talked about before.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s a fatty substance that insulates the nerve cells.
3
SPEAKER_00
But they re saying that the excess of myelin kind of backs up the idea of that hyperconnectivity with the anterior insular cortex.
3
SPEAKER_01
Boom, the gun has just been fired and is now smoking bright red, white, and blue smoke.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s a nerf gun, of course, people.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, for sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s one other thing that seems to be a bit of a boondoggle in misophonia research, and that is that there s a theory or, I guess, a school of thought that it s actually triggered by overactive mirror neurons in somebody.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, our old friends.
3
SPEAKER_01
And in particular,
3
SPEAKER_01
the motor cortex that has to do, again, with orofacial movements, that those mirror neurons are hyperactive.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that when you see somebody or hear somebody chewing, it triggers those mirror neurons and it creates a reaction, a response in you that you can t control because your mirror neurons have taken over.
3
SPEAKER_01
That seems to be untrue.
3
SPEAKER_00
OK, well, even so, we did an episode about mirror neurons many, many, many years ago that it s still super interesting to me.
3
SPEAKER_00
And just the quickest sort of summation is the idea of mirror neurons are like when you see someone in a football game on TV, like break their leg in a painful way and you literally feel that in your own leg.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s the dumbed-down version, but that s what we re talking about.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, I mean, that s a great example.
3
SPEAKER_01
When I watch sports, like, I find myself, like, leaning.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, if the guy s trying to avoid a tackle, I ll, like, turn as well.
3
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t help the guy at all, but I can t stop myself.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve noticed it because I ll be on the treadmill watching, like, basketball or something, and all of a sudden, I m, like, off balance a little bit because I m moving along with the guy who s, like, doing the layup.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve seen people do that when they re gaming, like first-person games.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s the exact same thing, I think, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Moving their body around in weird ways.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s pretty interesting if you train a camera on somebody gaming.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
You did mention genetics.
3
SPEAKER_00
It may have a genetic component.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think they did just an analysis on what s called a GWAS, a genome-wide association study about just rage-related misophonia.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they found that it does cluster with PTSD, anxiety, and depression, which indicates it could have a genetic component, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, which makes sense for sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
I didn t see the gene that they targeted it to.
3
SPEAKER_01
I didn t either.
3
SPEAKER_01
It does seem to be related genetically.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s also a researcher from Oxford named Jane Gregory, who also suffers from misophonia, and she posits that
3
SPEAKER_01
that misophonia could be like a relic, like an evolutionary relic from back when it was advantageous for a group to have a few people who responded to sound like way more than other people because they essentially served as like alarms for the rest of the group.
3
SPEAKER_01
All right, I can buy that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, this is the place that we re at in misophonia research.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can just toss stuff out like that and be like, yeah, probably.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it also can be comorbid with mesokinesia, and that is when you have a mesophonia-like response to someone s fidgety motions.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I think someone clicking a pin can be a mesophonia trigger, but that s also sort of a fidgety thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that kind of makes sense, I think.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, if you want to empathize with people who have misophonia and misokinesia, go on to Reddit.
3
SPEAKER_01
Actually, any condition that could be debilitating, go on to Reddit and look at the Reddit board for that condition, and your heart will just go out to people.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I looked at the misokinesia Reddit board.
3
SPEAKER_01
And just the first few posts, like the language they use, like want to die, can t live like this.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re not talking about self-harm.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re saying like, this is just bonkers, out of control.
3
SPEAKER_01
And they re talking about being in class and everyone s just kind of bouncing their knee.
3
SPEAKER_01
And they re just so overwhelmed by that and unable to not pay attention to it that they
3
SPEAKER_01
just feel like they re losing their minds in just the worst way.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s really awful.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m not overstating the way that they describe it at all.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I m sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
One thing I did notice, though, on the mesokinesia board is one poster said, or sorry, one OP said that they counteracted the experience by, I guess, kind of like mirroring
3
SPEAKER_01
what the person was doing.
3
SPEAKER_01
So if somebody s bouncing their knee, they use their hand to just kind of keep time with the person s knee.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it somehow counteracted or short-circuited the mesokinesia in them right then.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, I mean, they ve said the same thing with misophonia, is that sometimes people will make that sound themselves to counteract it, and that can help.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
So if you re ever clicking a pen and your co-worker stands up and just shouts, click, click, click, click, click, they probably are having a misophonic episode right then.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, for sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you should stop clicking your pen.
3
SPEAKER_00
It can affect, obviously, the workplace in negative ways, but it can also affect your relationships and your family.
3
SPEAKER_00
It has been described as contagious in a way because if you re, let s say, in a close relationship, maybe like married to somebody or coupled up with someone or living with someone with misophonia, you might become very attuned to their trigger sounds.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s not the same as having mesophonia, but it is contagious in a way in that all of a sudden, like if you then were just really on the lookout for the sound of people, you know, chewing their food because of being married to Yumi, that obviously it s not as bad for you, but it can get into your brain and sort of take over in a way.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and I don t think it s like it could trigger misophonia in somebody else.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t buy that.
3
SPEAKER_01
What I think is you ve just become hypervigilant on behalf of your spouse because you care about them.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you could conceivably get angry at somebody daring to chew around them because you know what it s doing to them.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s what I take that as.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I think that they say it can be worse with people that are close to you than like out in a restaurant with a random stranger.
3
SPEAKER_00
You might get more bothered by your family members or your coupled person.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, if you have misophonia, usually it s the people who are closest to you that can set you off the easiest.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right, with you with your spaghetti hanging out of your mouth.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve not figured out exactly why.
3
SPEAKER_01
My guess would be that they know that you know
3
SPEAKER_01
what they re going through and you re still doing it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe you seem very thoughtless or careless.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, right there.
3
SPEAKER_01
That would be mine, my guess.
3
SPEAKER_01
But there s a huge component of this that I think really kind of supports that salience network.
3
SPEAKER_01
hypothesis of mine.
3
SPEAKER_01
Let s hear it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that is that the sounds seem to have also like a personal emotional component to them.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like the Yastroboths, their theory is that like the limbic system is very much involved, which would explain why emotions there.
3
SPEAKER_01
So if you combine the limbic system with the salience network, the emotions you re feeling are like personal, like it feels personal to you, hence why you would feel
4
SPEAKER_03
something like outrage or profound disgust or something like that, you feel like you re being personally attacked right then.
4
SPEAKER_04
Oh yeah, that makes sense.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, like your brain has told you this is a very, very important stimulus and you need to respond to it in kind.
4
SPEAKER_03
That s the salience hypothesis.
4
SPEAKER_04
I like it.
4
SPEAKER_04
Can we call it the Josh Clark salience hypothesis?
4
SPEAKER_04
I ve been hoping you would say that all episode.
4
SPEAKER_04
The J-C-S-H?
4
SPEAKER_04
It almost spells Josh.
4
SPEAKER_03
It does.
4
SPEAKER_03
Josh.
4
SPEAKER_04
Can we rework that?
4
SPEAKER_03
Sure.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, can you turn that C into an O?
4
SPEAKER_04
Well, sure.
4
SPEAKER_04
Can you turn my last name into an O?
4
SPEAKER_04
I wasn t sure if you knew what you were saying, so I was giving you a backdoor.
4
SPEAKER_03
No, no, I knew it.
4
SPEAKER_03
Josh O. Clark.
4
SPEAKER_03
Oh, okay.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_04
I just did it for you.
4
SPEAKER_04
Hey, you may have been at one point.
4
SPEAKER_04
You never know.
4
SPEAKER_04
All right, so we ll let s take a break now and we ll come back and talk about what you probably think is coming, which are myriad forms of CBT behavioral therapies right after this.
4
SPEAKER_05
Guess what, Bango?
4
SPEAKER_05
What s up, Will?
4
SPEAKER_05
So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
4
SPEAKER_06
I know, that s why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
4
SPEAKER_06
It s about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it s called Earthquake House.
4
SPEAKER_05
Mango, I m going to cut you off right there.
4
SPEAKER_06
Why don t we just tell people about our show instead?
4
SPEAKER_06
Yeah, that s a better idea.
4
SPEAKER_06
So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world s most important questions.
4
SPEAKER_06
Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
4
SPEAKER_06
Is William Shatner s best acting work in Esperanto?
4
SPEAKER_06
Also, what happened to Esperanto?
4
SPEAKER_05
Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
4
SPEAKER_05
How do dollar stores stay in business?
4
SPEAKER_05
And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
4
SPEAKER_05
There absolutely is.
4
SPEAKER_06
And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
4
SPEAKER_06
But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius.
4
SPEAKER_05
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
4
SPEAKER_08
Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception.
4
SPEAKER_08
I m Andrea Gunning, and now we re sharing an all-new story of betrayal.
4
SPEAKER_08
Stacey thought she had the perfect husband.
4
SPEAKER_08
Doctor, father, family man.
4
SPEAKER_08
It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford to hide behind.
4
SPEAKER_07
They led me into the house, and I mean, it was like a movie.
4
SPEAKER_07
He was sitting at our kitchen table.
4
SPEAKER_07
The cops were guarding him.
4
SPEAKER_08
Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save himself.
4
SPEAKER_07
I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed.
4
SPEAKER_00
He did not just say, I wish he was dead.
4
SPEAKER_00
He actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him.
4
SPEAKER_07
He, to me, is scarier than Jeffrey Dahmer.
4
SPEAKER_08
Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
4
SPEAKER_01
A new season of Bridgerton is here.
4
SPEAKER_01
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m your host, Gabrielle Collins.
4
SPEAKER_01
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
4
SPEAKER_01
Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
4
SPEAKER_01
Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
4
SPEAKER_01
Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown s pen.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re discussing it all.
4
SPEAKER_01
I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
4
SPEAKER_01
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
4
SPEAKER_01
Then,
4
SPEAKER_01
Fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
4
SPEAKER_01
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
4
SPEAKER_03
So one of the saddest things about misophonia and mesokinesia, aside from the fact that people suffer from it, is that the treatment landscape is so hit or miss.
4
SPEAKER_03
There s so little widespread information out there among clinicians that you very well might go to see an ENT or a psychologist or a psychiatrist or even like a neurologist that s particularly uninformed who might
4
SPEAKER_03
basically say this is your problem, wear earplugs, just relax, go do mindfulness or something like that.
4
SPEAKER_03
And some of that stuff can help, but if that s all you re being met with, that s no treatment whatsoever.
4
SPEAKER_03
So fortunately, there are people who have really started to study how to treat it.
4
SPEAKER_03
And one of the things that they ve discovered is that good old cognitive behavioral therapy, CBT,
4
SPEAKER_03
seems to work for it, at least as far as any decent study has shown.
4
SPEAKER_03
It definitely has some effect compared to control groups.
4
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, there was a trial in 2020, a randomized clinical trial that found that there was significant improvement in 37% of the group that completed CBT versus 0% for the control group, and that a year later, those 37% seemed to be holding, which is great.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that s what they call statistically significant.
4
SPEAKER_04
I would say so.
4
SPEAKER_04
We also should mention as we re going through these various treatments, there are good people doing a lot of great work, but there are also, you know, just be wary.
4
SPEAKER_04
There are also people online that are just lining up to take your money to help you with this that may be quacky.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yes, so like if somebody has earplugs that the description almost makes seem magical, you should steer clear of that.
4
SPEAKER_03
Or if somebody says this supplement or this crystal or this tarot deck is going to help you, it s not, so just don t.
4
SPEAKER_03
Go seek out a neurologist, a neuropsychologist or neuropsychiatrist, I should say,
4
SPEAKER_03
And they should be able to help you do research yourself and say, hey, I want CBT or I want to try something called unified protocol, which is called transdiagnostic therapy, meaning that you can use it for all sorts of different things that stir up strong emotions.
4
SPEAKER_03
Basically, like CBT, it gives you tools to identify
4
SPEAKER_03
what triggers your emotional reactions, what you feel like when you re having that emotional reaction, how to deal when you re having that emotional reaction, and then also, if you re lucky, how to distance yourself from the emotional reaction and the trigger that causes it.
4
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, I think there are lots of, I feel like all of these are sort of just a re-skinned version of the same kind of thing, which are those therapies, identifying mindfulness, recognizing behaviors, learning, you know, one thing called cognitive flexibility, like kind of retraining your brain.
4
SPEAKER_04
The one that s a little different, I think, is
4
SPEAKER_04
the tinnitus retraining therapy, the TRT they ve been using for misophonia, it seems like with some pretty good results.
4
SPEAKER_04
It s basically sound therapy where you have a wearable device that plays like a very low level, like white noise or pink noise, whatever your noise of, whatever color noise you prefer, I guess.
4
SPEAKER_04
But just below the volume threshold of that trigger sound,
4
SPEAKER_04
And the Yastraboffs say that 80% of the patients that have tried that have had pretty good success.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, the key is you want to gradually increase like the volume of that trigger sound against the background of that pink noise.
4
SPEAKER_03
Right.
4
SPEAKER_03
So that you can, you re basically, it s a type of exposure therapy.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_03
Which is very controversial with misophonia.
4
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, for sure.
4
SPEAKER_03
A lot of people say, do not try exposure therapy.
4
SPEAKER_03
That does not work and actually it makes it worse because what you re doing is enraging yourself and all you re doing is strengthening that neural pathway that triggers that rage in the first place.
4
SPEAKER_03
So, it s not only not helpful, it s actually counterproductive.
4
SPEAKER_03
Other people say, no, no, no, you can do certain types of exposure therapy like the Jastrebos TRT with the pink noise.
4
SPEAKER_03
But if you do start to have an emotional response, stop.
4
SPEAKER_03
Like anybody who has any understanding as a health care provider of misophonia will tell you that if you have an emotional response to misophonia while you re undergoing treatment, stop the treatment.
4
SPEAKER_03
Get away from the sound.
4
SPEAKER_03
That s like best practices.
4
SPEAKER_03
If somebody is trying to force you to just hang in there through it during exposure therapy, you re being treated by a quack, and you need to find somebody else to help you.
5
SPEAKER_03
they don t understand misophonia.
5
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, this one I don t fully understand.
5
SPEAKER_05
This is Jane Gregory again from Oxford.
5
SPEAKER_05
She has worked on a situation where, or I guess a therapy, where she tries to create a different association with that sound.
5
SPEAKER_05
And she did this, in one case at least, by riding one of those, like an amusement park, like Disney World, I guess, like a dizzy ride, like a spinning teacup ride, while listening to, what was it in this case?
5
SPEAKER_03
Her husband s slurping tea.
5
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_05
Josh eating spaghetti.
5
SPEAKER_05
Uh, which makes sense in a way, but then like, wouldn t that just make you dizzy?
5
SPEAKER_05
Wouldn t you want to choose something that s.
5
SPEAKER_05
Uh, not also awful?
5
SPEAKER_03
I think that what she was after... Or did she just love those rides?
5
SPEAKER_03
She must love those rides.
5
SPEAKER_03
And also, I think she was after making the whole thing silly.
5
SPEAKER_03
So, like, when she heard her husband slurp tea, she would think about spinning around in a teacup, and that might kind of disarm her rage or something like that.
5
SPEAKER_03
Okay, I guess I hear that.
5
SPEAKER_05
And I m like, those are the worst rides, because it just makes me sick to my stomach, so... No, I m totally with you.
5
SPEAKER_05
Maybe the, uh... Yeah, I get it.
5
SPEAKER_03
But yeah, so that is a weird, weird example.
5
SPEAKER_03
But what the basis of that therapy is, is that you re listening to the trigger sound while also doing something else or learning to associate it with something else that s not that horrible emotional reaction.
5
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_05
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_05
Well, that makes sense.
5
SPEAKER_03
And then also, Chuck, there s self-treatment for misophonia that people have discovered along the way, like wearing noise-canceling headphones, wearing headphones where you re listening to pink noise or some kind of noise or music, just putting a barrier between you and any sound that might trigger you.
5
SPEAKER_03
And then there s other techniques too, but they re very sad, like not eating with your family.
5
SPEAKER_03
Because you are probably going to get triggered and it s sad, but that s a really effective intervention for misophonia.
5
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, there s a woman named Shaylin Hayes Raymond, who is a co-founder of Misophonia International.
5
SPEAKER_05
And her whole jam is like self-advocacy.
5
SPEAKER_05
So, you know, don t just, you know, it s OK to tell your family that
5
SPEAKER_05
Hey, can you try and avoid these triggering sounds?
5
SPEAKER_05
Can you be aware of what I m going through?
5
SPEAKER_05
Can you understand if I have to leave the room during like a big family meal?
5
SPEAKER_03
Can you go scan the subreddit on misophonia?
5
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, sort of.
5
SPEAKER_05
But to advocate for yourself also in things like noise-canceling headphones, like you mentioned, or just like getting out of there, like you said, like leaving the room, because from what I ve seen, it calms down pretty quickly.
5
SPEAKER_05
If you can remove yourself from the sound, you don t stay in that state for hours, generally, from what I ve seen.
5
SPEAKER_05
Is that right?
5
SPEAKER_05
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_03
It can pass fairly quickly.
5
SPEAKER_05
So that s the good news.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, and then also the good news is that there are smart people who have begun to study this in addition to the yastraboths who are making some headway.
5
SPEAKER_03
So hopefully there will be some sort of like verifiable cure or treatment for it in the not too distant future.
5
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, I mean, if we re talking about a thing that s just been seriously looked at in the last 20 years, you d imagine that there ll be a lot of headway made.
5
SPEAKER_05
And I think just getting like an episode out here for people that maybe have been like poking fun at someone in their life, not taking it as seriously, like, hopefully this will help that, you know?
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, we re the Joyce Coens of podcasting.
5
SPEAKER_05
Did you get that?
5
SPEAKER_05
I did.
5
SPEAKER_05
I mean, that was... I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_05
I m sorry.
5
SPEAKER_05
I thought you were talking about the self-advocate.
5
SPEAKER_05
Who s Joyce Cohen?
5
SPEAKER_03
She s the woman who wrote the 2011 New York Times article that told everybody who was suffering from misophonia that it was a real thing.
5
SPEAKER_05
It was the other person.
5
SPEAKER_05
I got it.
5
SPEAKER_05
I thought you were saying Joyce Brothers.
5
SPEAKER_03
Who won on...
5
SPEAKER_03
Oh, what was that show?
5
SPEAKER_03
Quiz Show?
5
SPEAKER_05
That was Network Stars?
5
SPEAKER_03
No, it was like Quiz Show.
5
SPEAKER_03
Remember, she won like big time on a game show and like you had to pick what topic you wanted to be deeply quizzed on and she chose boxing and just wiped the floor with her opponent.
5
SPEAKER_03
Oh, wow.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that was on our game show episode.
5
SPEAKER_03
Really?
5
SPEAKER_03
I don t remember that.
5
SPEAKER_03
That, for some reason, that always stuck out to me.
5
SPEAKER_03
Joyce Brothers and boxing, it s like kind of cognitive dissonance that just stuck with me.
5
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, totally.
5
SPEAKER_03
You got anything else on misophonia?
5
SPEAKER_05
Nope.
5
SPEAKER_03
Well, our heart goes out to all of you out there listening to us who have misophonia.
5
SPEAKER_03
We hope we didn t trigger you.
5
SPEAKER_03
We hope we ve never triggered you.
5
SPEAKER_03
And sorry again about that time with the ASMR.
5
SPEAKER_03
And since I said that, it s time for listener mail.
5
SPEAKER_05
I m going to call this, this is very interesting, Irish Famine Connection.
5
SPEAKER_05
Hey guys, listen every day on my drive to work in rural Ireland.
5
SPEAKER_05
Luckily, an episode is just the right length for my 40 mile trip.
5
SPEAKER_05
On the Selects episode, this is about an old one from famines in 2017, you did a nice job describing the nature of the Irish famine.
5
SPEAKER_05
But rather than bemoan the terrible response of the British rulers, I wanted to celebrate the amazing gesture of the Choctaw nation of Americans, sorry, Native Americans, who upon hearing of the plight of the Irish people during the famine, gathered up $170 at the time, which was, you know, fairly significant money, to send over for help.
5
SPEAKER_05
This incredible act of generosity came from a people who had only recently themselves suffered terribly during the infamous Trail of Tears, showing the true nature of them as a people.
5
SPEAKER_05
This kindness had never been forgotten, has never been forgotten, and thankfully, now that Ireland is a country of significant wealth, we ve been able to give back.
5
SPEAKER_05
There s been a spectacular monument erected in honor of the Choctaw-Irish connection, and also a university scholarship program, and that s a program with two M s and an E.
5
SPEAKER_05
in Cork, where members of the Choctaw Nation can avail of a fully paid B.E.D.
5
SPEAKER_05
or master s degree.
5
SPEAKER_05
I guess B.E.D.
5
SPEAKER_05
is an undergrad.
5
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_05
And living expenses paid also.
5
SPEAKER_05
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_05
This is something I teach my students in geography classes on migration at a high school level, as I think it is so important to recognize the... and that s recognized with an S.
5
SPEAKER_05
The incredible human acts that take place in these terrible moments.
5
SPEAKER_05
Really enjoy the variety of things you cover.
5
SPEAKER_05
And thanks for looking beyond the potato in Irish history.
5
SPEAKER_05
And that is from Bob Grace in County Carlo.
5
SPEAKER_05
That s awesome.
5
SPEAKER_03
Thanks a lot, Bob.
5
SPEAKER_03
Super cool.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that s wonderful.
5
SPEAKER_03
I had no idea about the scholarship, did you?
5
SPEAKER_03
I feel like we mentioned that in another episode.
5
SPEAKER_03
I don t remember which one.
5
SPEAKER_03
Maybe Trail of Tears.
5
SPEAKER_03
Oh, really?
5
SPEAKER_03
I don t remember because, yeah, it does sound familiar, but I definitely don t remember the college scholarship thing.
5
SPEAKER_03
So way to go, Bob.
5
SPEAKER_05
Well, you know me.
5
SPEAKER_05
I ve forgotten anyway, so I m happy to relearn it.
5
SPEAKER_03
It s awesome.
5
SPEAKER_03
I wish I were you.
5
SPEAKER_03
You could just watch movies over and over again.
5
SPEAKER_05
I m like that guy Memento.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, Guy Pearce.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_03
If you want to get in touch with us like Bob Grace did with a great story, we want to hear it.
5
SPEAKER_03
You can send it off via email to stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.
5
SPEAKER_01
Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
5
SPEAKER_01
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
5
SPEAKER_04
Guess what, Will?
5
SPEAKER_04
What s up, Mango?
5
SPEAKER_04
I ve been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we ve done over 250 episodes, we don t really talk about murders or cults.
5
SPEAKER_04
I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
5
SPEAKER_04
We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
5
SPEAKER_04
And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
5
SPEAKER_04
So what you re saying is everyone should be listening.
5
SPEAKER_04
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
5
SPEAKER_06
A new season of Bridgerton is here.
5
SPEAKER_06
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
5
SPEAKER_06
I m your host, Gabby Collins.
5
SPEAKER_06
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
5
SPEAKER_06
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
5
SPEAKER_06
Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
5
SPEAKER_06
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
5
SPEAKER_02
Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m Andrea Gunning, and now we re sharing an all-new story of betrayal.
5
SPEAKER_02
Justin Rutherford, doctor, father, family man.
5
SPEAKER_02
It was the perfect cover to hide behind.
5
SPEAKER_00
Detective Weaver said, I m sure you know why we re here.
5
SPEAKER_00
I was like, what in the world is going on?
5
SPEAKER_02
Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.