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Welcome everybody to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in the history of podcasts.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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Kind of off my SM7B, had a little technical difficulty, had to move into the actual video studio.
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Decent mic, just still not the depth of the SM7B.
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What is it?
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It s a Sennheiser remote.
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It s like this one.
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It s right above my head.
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Oh, okay.
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So it s not even on anywhere near my face.
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So it sounds pretty good.
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Yeah.
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Given the fact that it s a remote directional mic.
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And it s not the SM7.
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It s a boom.
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Is it a boom, Mike?
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It is.
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It s a boom.
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Yeah.
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You kind of even put it down the shots.
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He s got a little, yeah, I can see it on there.
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Keep it out of the shot though.
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Yeah, seriously.
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I m going to screw it all up now until we get.
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And, uh, yeah, we talked, you take your, you know, you go on the road, you take your, uh, road caster with you and your stuff and you hook it back up just like it was exactly like it was same port, same everything.
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And it doesn t work.
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So there s that.
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Uh, well, roadcaster does not, is not spelled R O A D. No, people are not meant to go on the road.
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Um, so you ve got some fun, you ve been on a trip and you got some other fun news you want to share with her.
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Yeah, my daughter, Kara, I think we had mentioned she was pregnant, is pregnant, not anymore.
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She had a little baby on Sunday.
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We were actually vacationing in some national parks in the southwest, and my wife was going to fly to Denver after we were done.
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The baby was due next Saturday, but they induced labor Friday night.
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And you know, it s one of those things that
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when they induce labor, you know, you re starting to measure the cervix and the opening in two centimeters and three centimeters and five centimeters and all that.
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And so we re texting all through the night, at least my wife is, from 3 a.m.
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Sunday, 4 a.m., it s going good, everything s good, contractions, you know, back and forth, all this information.
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And then at 10.30,
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They went stone silent for four hours.
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And so she d had some issues with, is the baby growing?
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The baby s fine, but it was a baby growing.
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And so then your mind for four hours when you re not hearing from somebody after every 15 minutes, you re getting an update.
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And we were texting her husband and getting nothing.
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And I m like,
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And I m walking around and I m getting, you know, my mind s going to the movies of death and movies of destruction and all that crap.
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And then at 12, or 2.30, they called and introduced us to Palmer Jane.
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Little six-pound, 10-ounce beauty.
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And so, and she was, I sent, I sent her a message.
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Brian, a text picture of her.
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She was doing an audio, make sure your ears were fine.
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She had a headset on.
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I said, ASP Nation.
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First thing she asked for.
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First youngest listener, youngest listener in a band selling podcast is Palmer Jane.
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I love that name.
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Isn t it good?
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Fantastic.
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I love they put Jane there.
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That s just so neat.
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Yeah, we did one of those guessing things where guess what the name of the baby is.
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And yes, it starts with a P. She gave us that.
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Oh, we never heard nobody.
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Did this Palmer anything like a family name or anything?
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No, just no coolness.
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Really?
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No, no, no.
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But I love I m so interested in the seasons of the names.
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You know what I mean?
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I m Brian.
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And everyone my age is Brian, or Michelle, or Stephanie.
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And then there s Kayla, Kyla, Michaela, that whole crew.
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That whole generation.
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And then I m back to my kids are Anna, Samuel, Nicola.
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Got a little bit more of that back to.
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And now you ve got Palmer.
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Your names are biblical.
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Your names are ours are biblical.
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Actually.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Anna Samuel and they re all family names in some way, shape or form too.
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Yeah.
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Well, that s awesome.
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Kara s good.
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She feels good.
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Yep.
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Everybody s good.
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And, uh, I m going to go out here in a few days and meet her and.
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See if I can help in any way and make sure she is actually listening to the podcast.
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That wasn t just a ruse of some kind.
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No, no, no.
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Palmer knows.
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We re getting her t-shirts.
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When are you going to be out there, by the way?
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We haven t talked about this.
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I m going to be out there.
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Oh, yeah.
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I m going next Wednesday for about five days.
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Oh, really?
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Yeah.
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Oh.
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When am I going?
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Next Tuesday.
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Oh, yeah?
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Tuesday.
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Well, I m there.
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I fly in Tuesday.
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I do training Wednesday and then fly home Wednesday afternoon.
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Okay, quick when s the evening?
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Yeah quick announce.
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I might see at the airport.
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We ll see at the airport Well, we ll record episode of bill and I run into each other at the Denver International Airport We will absolutely record episode, but I m not bringing my roadcaster cuz I don t want no don t screw up on your phone All right.
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Let s do well.
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Congrats and happy for you.
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Thank you.
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Thank you very much.
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Appreciate it great So, okay topic.
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Yeah topic.
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I brought this up in our pre show Is you know?
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Brian and I, we go into companies, and we do training, and consulting, and coaching.
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And often, we will be brought in, and sometimes the people don t have access to the podcast, so they re not like avid listeners.
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They may have not listened, and we kind of get injected upon them sometimes.
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And we ll send videos, as I m sure you do, to kind of get acclimated, but still, it s
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And I find sometimes where people have bought into this idea of, well, let s just see what he has.
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We ll take the best of what he has, and we ll learn some of the language.
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And then we ll go back to doing it the same way we ve always done with slightly different language.
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And I know that doesn t work because
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And I m sure I think you might agree that our whole system is based on a philosophy and a mindset, not just on language and tactics and words, even though the words are part of it.
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And you get, you, our listeners, get access to us every week of not just language.
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We do some language stuff, but we also do a lot of mindset and strategy and things like that.
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And so my question to you is,
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When you have someone who s dabbling and just taking bits and pieces, because that s how we ve been trained to take in new information, just take the best and just, yeah, I learned something from everybody.
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Just get a little bit here and a little bit there.
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How do you take them from that to going all in on the entire philosophy so they re all in committed versus just dabbling?
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And I ve got some thoughts, but I love it.
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I love this topic.
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So it s so, uh, relevant.
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I find that it happens less than it used to happen and it still happens.
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It s a thing.
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Um, and here s where I think that if I go root cause on this thing, those people who are resistant to going all in on, on anything are typically fear-based.
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and their comfort base.
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My guess is, for the most part, not always, the people that are those people that I m just going to find the one thing and edit, most of those people, on my guess, would be mid-tier performers, usually, not always.
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but usually, because they like to hover in the middle.
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And they don t want to do anything that s too different, because they re so fearful.
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They want to hang on to their security and what they re comfortable with, where high performing people can absolutely let go.
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And you see this, I think, an interesting sports analogy, and I don t play this game, but if you look at golfers,
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You have dozens, if not hundreds of examples of the most elite golfers on the planet, finish a season, go to their swing coach and 100% completely change how they putt.
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100% now like, Hey, we just watched it.
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Should I pull the putter back?
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It s a little bit farther, a little bit like, no, you re going to change your grip, your stance, your routine.
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Everything s changing.
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Cause you didn t putt the way you wanted to putt last year.
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That s what a pro does.
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That s a good analogy.
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And I think that s where the root cause of this starts, in people s love for mediocrity.
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There s an NFL coach who uses this phrase.
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I just love it.
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I ve been around him in practice and stuff.
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He says, and a lot of people say this, humans seek comfort.
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It s natural for humans to seek comfort.
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And part of me seeking comfort in this example is you come and build to my company, and I m a middle to upper middle performer, and you start to teach me this new way of thinking.
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And the only thing I grasp is a little emotional question you taught me of like, why is this such a problem?
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I m like, oh, that s a good question.
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I m going to start using that, Bill.
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Thanks a bunch, man.
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I m going to start using your question.
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They say that, right?
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I m going to start using your question, yeah.
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I really like that one.
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You need some sort of validation that what you re teaching is OK.
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That s where I think the root cause is.
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Yeah, I think that is.
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And you know, we hear a lot of times people say, oh, I listen to your podcast.
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I listen to Will Barron.
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I listen to John.
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Anthony, Anthony Reno.
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I listen to.
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Listen to seven or eight podcasts.
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And I will tell you, I think it s great that you get exposed to all those different philosophies.
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Because to me, every person on that list has a philosophy.
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I don t think they talk about it as much as we might talk about our philosophy.
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My recommendation is to find one and go all in on it, even if it s not ours.
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Go all in on something.
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So that way, everything congeals around the mindset and the philosophy.
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So you re not picking here and there and choosing.
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And questions are, yeah, you can pick up a question here or there.
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But I think that s difficult.
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And I think too, now that you re saying it out loud that way, and that s very true.
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People put together, they re like, oh yeah, I got, you know, they ll say things like, you guys got some great stuff like that, you know?
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And that s fine.
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Like, I appreciate that.
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And maybe you ve learned something from me and Bill over the past 16 years in one of our 900 episodes that was some good stuff.
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More importantly, though, we re looking for someone that really shifts and transform their the way they think about it.
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I just saw an Instagram yesterday from a former client of mine, only former because she left the company I was coaching her at and moved to like halfway all the way across the country, moved from Indianapolis to Seattle.
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And she s starting to get into some personal coaching, a little bit of business coaching, but she put an Instagram up.
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lifelong salesperson.
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She s like, I ve had I can t tell you how many sales trainers is on Instagram.
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I didn t even know that this was her talk.
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So I m like, Oh, and she said, but the last person I worked with, totally transformed the way I thought about sales.
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And I m like, that s what you and I are after.
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That s it.
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And I m like, I love that.
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And I don t train her.
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She doesn t pay me.
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I don t pay her.
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But that makes me felt that made me feel so good.
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Because I m like, that s what we re after a total shift in the mindset.
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And now what s great is she can still take now that is hers.
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That is how she rolls now.
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She doesn t need my help or coaching or yours right now.
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She could obviously benefit.
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She s very coachable, but she s got it that she s made this idea hers.
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So for her, then, you mentioned the word transformation.
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I do think that s what we re shooting for as coaches is to change the entire dynamic between buyer and prospect, buyer and seller.
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But in order to do that, don t you have to kind of jettison everything and delete all of the old tapes and scripts and all the old things that you ve learned?
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uh and you can t do it all at once I realize because that s not the way we re built but incrementally isn t that what we re shooting for over time is total transformation which comes from obliterating all those old old scripts and old moves and old sales perspectives that people have accumulated over the years 100 yeah I m looking up uh there s a book by uh
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Richard Bach, remember him?
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Richard Bach, kind of a deep existential kind of author from the 70s.
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He wrote a book called Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah.
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It s a really great book.
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The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah.
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There s some stories in that book, though, that talk about these creatures that live on the bottom of a stream, and they hang on to these rocks for life.
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And then one of them one day lets go and moves down and finds this really great, better place to be.
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And he s telling them all, like, come on, and none of them will let go.
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can t let go to their old ideas and they can t grow or anything like that.
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So what advice, let s turn this into some actionable things, but if you re a listener and let s say that things aren t going the way you d like them to go, maybe you re closing percentages down, maybe you re stagnated, the income s stagnated,
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Let s just assume that there s some issue.
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We don t know what it is because everybody s different, but some issue that should cause you to question, how am I approaching this?
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How am I thinking about sales or my role in sales?
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how I sell, how I communicate my value, what my value even is.
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How would you recommend someone listening to take a rigorously honest look at how they re thinking about things to maybe then cause some change or cause some realization?
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Oh, you know what?
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I m still back in this old.
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And maybe we can talk about what those attitudes are.
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That s great.
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This is a little, and it s not meant to be like a test to find people out, but it s a very common thing.
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The first question I say is, do you have a sales philosophy that you can share your screen and show me right now?
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And you call people out on a Zoom, could you do that?
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Could you print something out or could you pull up your phone, find a document that shows me your sales philosophy?
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Most people cannot put it out, so it s not been codified.
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And they ll go, oh, well, I mean, I ve got one.
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I mean, yeah, I m persistent.
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I m good at follow-up.
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I asked really good open-ended questions.
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I love open-ended questions.
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That s not a philosophy.
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That s not a philosophy.
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And the point is, they meander because they don t have one.
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Versus you and I have documentation of those things.
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We could pull it up and say, this is the core philosophy.
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Here s this goosh, goosh, goosh.
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It s codified or codified.
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How do we say that?
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So let s get into that then.
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So this is a good exercise for people.
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Let s give people a handful of philosophies, two or three each, that we have found really does make a huge difference in how people interact with prospects.
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And then the assignment from here would be, OK, now we ve given you a few of ours.
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You take those, steal them if you want, and write down five bullet points on what your philosophy is.
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So codify it, make it real, document it.
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What would be, and we can go back and forth on this.
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Obviously we ve not planned this out very well.
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But I do think that s a good start on just what, I don t think, I don t know if we ve talked about that in a while.
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No, and I m guessing we re going to have the same answer.
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So I m trying to maybe put a couple of different things on here.
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that normally we wouldn t do.
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But let s just start off.
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We both probably have these on our list.
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So one is my first element of our philosophy that we teach anyone that I believe in is the abundance of the marketplace, the massive, overwhelming abundance of any marketplace.
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And all you have to do to feel this is just count.
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I mean, you can make this a very numeric thing.
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If you and I coach salespeople and I go, how many salespeople in the US?
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We say,
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20 million, 22 million.
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I say, how many you work with Bill?
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You go a thousand.
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Okay.
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There s your abundance.
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It s right.
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You got, you got 21 million, nine 90 that you re not working with yet.
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And all everyone listening to this podcast has that.
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Every one of you has that.
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None of you have is a hundred percent market share.
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None of you, and you know, you re losing clients.
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So,
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So your first one is every market is, I have to have the belief or the philosophy belief, I think it s another word for it, that my market is, whether it s infinitely abundant or not, it is abundant.
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It s practically abundant.
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Practically.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Oh yeah.
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Sure.
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You can count.
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Yeah.
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You can count the salespeople, but as soon as you count them on Wednesday, you count them Thursday, different numbers.
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So it s like, it never ends.
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What am I going to do when I get to the 21st?
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Exactly.
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Hey, I just want to welcome aboard.
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Just want to let you know, I got one more guy to get, and we re all good.
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We got them all.
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He s on the internet somewhere.
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Yes.
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That s my first.
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Well, here s a philosophy that I think is important to have, and that is not everyone is a good prospect.
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And I think we think, well, when someone calls us, or they book a call, or they agree to see us, then we say, well, they wouldn t agree to see us if they weren t a good prospect.
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That s just false.
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Some people are just looky-loos.
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But I think we have to have the belief that not everyone is a good prospect.
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We will determine together whether you are or not.
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And I m not going to determine it.
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You re not going to determine it.
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We are going to do it collectively and congruently as we go through this process and understand each other and tell you a little bit about what we do, find out what you re struggling with.
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But it starts with not everybody is a good prospect, or not everybody is a prospect worth pursuing.
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That s got to be in the philosophical base.
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It s a baseline philosophy.
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I love that.
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Um, and it s so funny.
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We just, yeah, we tapped out on a, a perspective opportunity, mostly because of culture.
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We just didn t, it was just like, it was clunky and hard and difficult.
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And I m like, man, we got another one right now.
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I m kind of like, you know, we might be better off just saying no thanks in this one.
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And it s, um, I think earlier in a career, it s harder to do maybe cause you, you know, you get a little older, wiser and you realize there s, you know, 18 more around the corner.
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You re just sort of like, just not worth the time.
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I wrote down next, I wanna have.
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have a philosophy of childlike curiosity, childlike curiosity.
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And I think a lot of salespeople are selfishly curious, versus childlike curiosity is about exploring and wondering and learning.
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Selfish curiosity is I m going to ask you questions that lead you to a place that I want you to go.
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And I think too many people, they do this whole questioning thing with bad intention.
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And then they just, they move people in a direction like, you know, well, that must be tough.
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It s like a game playing thing.
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Versus a sincere curiosity, like a kid would, you know, kids ask questions.
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They don t have any game behind it.
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They re literally just wondering.
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Like, why is that?
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You know what I mean?
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What is it?
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I like the word wonder almost better than curiosity.
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I know we ve used that word back and forth.
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And maybe they re the same.
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But I think that childlike wonder is like, well, how does this work?
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And what happens if this happens?
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And if you re around kids, you know, 5 to 15, they have that.
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And then we beat it out of them because all we want are answers.
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The school system is set up.
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What s 2 plus 2?
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Oh, it s 4.
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There s no curiosity there.
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None.
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Now, don t question anything.
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This is how you must behave.
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We were out to dinner when we were on our West Coast swing trip.
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And we went to some national parks.
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And we stopped for this one place pizza.
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And the guy was really, he was a good server.
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But you just happen on these places because you get hungry.
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You re like, I don t know.
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We re starved.
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Let s go.
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And this guy, we sat down and he introduced himself.
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He goes, so where are you from?
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And we said, Indiana.
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He goes, fair enough.
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That s so funny.
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Yeah, where is Indiana?
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Why did you come out here?
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Do they have state parks in Indiana or national parks?
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What s the weather like there?
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Where d you grow up?
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Did you grow up there?
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Yeah, seriously.
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Yeah.
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So funny, isn t it?
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Fair enough is kind of my... Another one I have is, I don t know if you ve heard of it, but there s this thing called
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My, the philosophy of creating, it s up to me to create the environment where they are selling me as much as I m selling them.
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So, so the idea here is this is not a one way I m pitching and I m convincing and I m hoping I go, I go from four vendors down to two and I hope I get a chance to come in and present again.
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That s not it.
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The ideal is where you re creating, through your process, you re creating an environment where they re every bit as much interested in you solving their problem as you are in selling the solution to the problem.
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And if that s a skew, and usually it s a skew where we are more interested in selling them than they are in buying,
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Now we re out of control, and now we re in the way.
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And so if you can modify your philosophy a little bit to say to yourself and to be checking yourself all the way through the process, who s selling whom?
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Who s selling whom here?
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And I don t mean you re sitting back waiting to cash a check that comes over the desk.
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I mean, there s a process and there s dialogue, but you have to make sure that you re not pitching any more than they re pitching.
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Yes.
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And you ve been, I m sure you ve witnessed this where we have calls sometimes where the CEO or VP of sales says, look, you know, I ve listened to the podcast or I ve listened to, you know, I ve watched you on YouTube and here s, here s our situation.
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They re very clear.
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And so those are great because they re not starting with, well, so what do you do?
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What do you do for our company?
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Right.
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It s so much easier, isn t it?
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Having the podcast or any social out there.
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And by a SKU, you mean A-S-K-E-W, not a stock keeping unit.
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For my retail friends, when you said a SKU, I go, a SKU, which, how many SKUs do they have?
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That s an old retail joke.
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Exactly, yeah.
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It s a nice category.
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I mean, it s got a category, you know, we re probably caring about, I don t know, 850 SKUs or something.
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That s an old, all the CPG people.
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How do you get out of that after they go down the stoop?
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No, no, no, no, no.
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No, I didn t mean that.
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You mean a next two.
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Yeah.
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Uh, no, it s really great.
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I ll go one more.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Uh, and again, something you and I ve talked about, we ve mentioned it already in another, in a sub answer, but, um, really the idea of carrying, um, really good intention through the whole process.
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And if there s one, um,
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philosophy that s a hinge philosophy.
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It s this one, this idea that I m all for goals and all those other things.
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But when you are face-to-face speaking to someone, your intention has got to be around helping them in some way, shape, or form, whether that means doing a deal with you or not.
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And I think too often, we get so quick to jump into me helping you, not because I really want to or need to, but because I need the deal or I m behind on my goal or something like that.
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And it s amazing when you open this up and you get your intention clean, when you start to get really bad resistance and it s just not feeling right, it s so much easier to walk away, say no thanks.
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It just feels forced.
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And it s so refreshing for everybody.
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I think it s good for the customers, too, right?
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Everybody.
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They don t want to go through that pressure or anything like that.
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And then I m also cool, too.
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People, we don t talk about this enough, too.
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If your intention s clean, you got to just really sit with yourself on this one.
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and you can help somebody, you re OK to go after him too.
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I believe that.
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If we ve got a program or something, you ve got a personal branding program that Bill s running, and you look at the person s work and everything, and you listen to him.
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I ve got a client like this right now.
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This dude s built for TV.
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The way he talks, I m like, we ve got to get him.
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His story is amazing.
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We have to get him on camera.
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We have to get him behind a microphone.
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And I m going to push, push, push.
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Because your intention is about him and his talent.
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His business, yes.
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Yeah.
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That s even better, because he probably is missing that ambition.
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He is.
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He is.
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He s nervous or maybe a little like, I m not sure.
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Self-conscious.
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Like, man, you ve got to do this.
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You d be so good at it.
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And we don t get anything for that.
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But we just know it will work.
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Yeah, that s good.
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My last one here is kind of a cousin to yours and that is what s right will unfold.
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Oh, that s beautiful.
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The right answer or the right outcome will always unfold as long as your intention is proper and high and about them.
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I ve seen too many times where salespeople, and these are clients of mine, and I think it s good to prepare.
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I love preparation.
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But sometimes we over-prepare, and we don t let things just unfold between two or three or four human beings.
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And I just think if you re present, you re intense in the right place, you re detached, you really want to help them if they want the help, man, awesome things unfold.
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versus you saying, well, by the fifth minute of the call, we need to tackle this in six minutes.
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And we haven t done this yet.
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I didn t really even hear what you said, but I got to get to 0.7 or more.
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I just think unfolding it, and Michael Gervais talks about that a lot on his podcast, High Performance Podcast, is just we have to let it unfold because what unfolds will surprise us.
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Yes.
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That s so true, isn t it?
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especially bad in like big enterprise deals.
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Like we re going to go pitch proctor and gamble.
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Okay, let s mark it.
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Let s let s practice it again.
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Okay, the three minute mark Bill, I m passing to you, you re going to take them through the data and the stats.
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Okay, then flip it back to me.
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We ll go through the fail.
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Okay, let s go rehearse it again.
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And then you get in there, and then it just goes nowhere near that.
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And everybody does that.
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All the other competitors, they re doing the exact same thing, because they ve brought in consultants, and they ve said, OK, you ve got to have better PowerPoints.
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You ve got to have cell.
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And the person that gets the deal is the one that doesn t have that stuff, that just shows up as a human being.
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Yeah.
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Um, I just, so I went to a V con Gary Vaynerchuk conference.
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I went this weekend.
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We ll talk about that more on another podcast, but I want to tell the story, uh, opening deal.
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Gary brings his brother and his dad up.
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AJ s his brother runs their sports division.
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Sasha s their dad still runs the liquor store and they re great family.
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He said, I want to know a funny story about us.
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You know, that, that, that we went through together.
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AJ, his brother says, well, the first time we went to pitch a major brand, there were an advertising agency, Vayner was,
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He said, we went in and we went into this building, and it s a huge company that everybody knows.
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He didn t say the name on purpose.
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But he was talking to Gary on the way in.
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He goes, who are we meeting with today?
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Gary s like, I m not sure.
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He goes, well, what brands are we pitching?
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Gary s like, I don t know.
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They just said they want to talk to us.
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And he said they ended up going to 12 different brands, had all these meetings, and they left.
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And Gary, they got out of the elevator and he s like, God, that was hard.
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And AJ s like, yeah, it was hard.
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And Gary s like, what do companies, why is this so hard?
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He goes, because we didn t do any preparation at all.
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But they ended up getting the deal.
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And I think the lesson there is because Gary didn t do the dog pony, you know how he is.
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He goes in in his t-shirt, his jeans, and just starts asking questions.
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Exactly, hard-fought intentions and asking and bringing ideas.
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They didn t need the PowerPoints and the suits and all the data.
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Did you see that?
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I thought that was really telling.
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It was a funny story, but more importantly, it s validating what you re saying, Bill.
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They weren t overprepared.
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That s why they get the deal over a big agency that prepared forever and ever and ever.
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They lose to a guy in jeans and a t-shirt.
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Yeah, so what we re saying here is not don t prepare.
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What we re saying here is prepare like crazy.
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But when you get there, don t rely, don t depend on the preparation to be that in-the-room vibe, because that s much more important.
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You ve got your PowerPoints.
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You can bring them out if you need to.
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But sometimes I feel like people rush to the PowerPoint or to the keynote or the slide or the presentation or the pitch book, pitch deck, whatever.
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And I just don t think that s useful, because I think human beings want connection.
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We are connection-oriented people.
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We want to connect with another human being.
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You don t do it over a 75-slide PowerPoint deck.
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You do it when a human being shows up and says, look, we could talk about a lot of things.
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Tell me what s on your mind today.
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Yeah, right.
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So true.
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All right, so if you have not joined us on our LinkedIn group, make sure you do.
3
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Go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn.
3
SPEAKER_01
Good action there.
3
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A lot of great people, up to 12, 13,000, I think.
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We will visit all of you next year.
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2024 is a year we will actually go on the road and visit every one of our 14.
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Yep, 22, or yeah, all the listeners in the air, 21,000,000 salespeople are going to have you as clients too.
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SPEAKER_00
That s right.
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SPEAKER_00
Right?
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And then we ll stop.
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Then it s not about it anymore.
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SPEAKER_00
All right.
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SPEAKER_00
All right.
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SPEAKER_00
See you next time.
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SPEAKER_00
See you next time.
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SPEAKER_00
Bye.
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SPEAKER_00
Bye.