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This is the art of charm.
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Learn everything you need to know to crush it in business, love, and life.
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Today we re talking with Kim Seltzer, a dating coach here at the Art of Charm.
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She s the one who teaches the ladies, and we re doing a little female toolbox this time around, but guys should listen to this too, because there s a lot of benefit to be had looking at the other side of the coin, which is not so different from ours.
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We re gonna talk about flirting, what it actually is and isn t, the top excuses why women don t flirt or use femininity in dating and in the workforce,
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and we re gonna talk about body language, fashion, and feminine communication.
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So I wanna welcome everybody, guys and gals, to the Art of Charm.
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The Art of Charm brings together the best thought leaders, teachers, and exceptional individuals to teach you how to be a top performer in life, love, and at work.
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Imagine having a mix of experienced mentors teaching you their expertise, packing decades of research, testing, and tough lessons into a curriculum.
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We may not have all the answers, but we definitely have all the questions.
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I want to invite you to join us in our social capital challenge at theartofcharm.com slash challenge or text charmed to 33444.
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This is a challenge about improving your social capital, inspiring more people to develop a personal and professional relationship with you.
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This will make you a better networker and a better connector.
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Oh, and if you want to have accountability, invite your friends.
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That s theartofcharm.com slash challenge or text charmed to 33444.
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Enjoy this one with Kim Seltzer.
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Why don t you tell us what you do in one sentence?
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I help people love themselves.
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How s that?
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That s good.
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That s such fluffiness though.
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I know, and I m so not fluffy.
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I m not like the woo-woo type at all, you know me.
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I want to scratch that out with a sharpie and let you do it again.
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Okay, so I am a dating and makeover expert, and I draw upon my experience as a therapist to really do an inside-out approach in helping people look and feel their best so they attract what they want.
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So whether that s the opposite sex, a new job, a lot of times people come to me when they re in a state of transition and want to change, and that s where usually I come in.
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One of the reasons I m having you back, I mean, you ve been on the show with me a bunch of times.
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We even have our own show that we haven t released yet called Full Disclosure, where we coach people in real time.
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It s amazing, even if I do say so myself.
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But yeah, critics say it s awesome, only I m the only critic.
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I was going to say, who is the critic?
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We have one critic.
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I m very self-critical.
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One of the things that I wanted to focus on is we have a lot of female AOC fans.
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I mean, if you take the survey numbers and you slap them on top of the real numbers, we ve got thousands and thousands, 10,000 plus female fans listening to Art of Charm every single week, and they are not shy about saying, where s the dating stuff for women?
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The reason I haven t had it on here before, the reason we haven t done much with it, is because I speak from my own perspective, I speak from things I can really relate to, and as far as anyone knows, I ve never been a girl, and I don t really know what it s like, and so I don t wanna be pulling like a Dr. Phil and going, well, here s the problem, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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Meanwhile, I read that on a friggin  blog, right?
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But you do have a feminine side, which I love about you.
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So I wanted to have you on here and talk about flirting and why women don t flirt or maybe use femininity and some of the common pitfalls.
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Because frankly, the way I look at it now, and I ve looked at it a lot over the last decade here working at the Art of Charm, is women are between this weird rock and a hard place where
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The guys that tend to approach them a lot of the time are not the guys that they want, but they can t necessarily approach guys.
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I mean, sometimes they do, and sometimes they can, but most women don t want to, because it messes with the gender role stuff, and guys are kind of saying, I don t want that also, and so if they don t do that, they don t get anywhere, and so you re really stuck, because it s almost this sort of passive, or at least on the surface looks passive role that women play in the dating market,
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And in the dating game, whereas guys can, in theory, go after what they want.
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Now whether or not they do, that s why, one of the reasons why we have a job in this company exists is because we started off telling guys and teaching men how to go after it.
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But with women, it s totally different.
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You can t say, alright, here s what you re gonna do.
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You re gonna go up and say, hey, you re good looking, buy me a drink, and then boom, happily ever after.
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Because certain guys don t like that, certain girls don t wanna do that, women don t wanna do that.
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you can end up being stuck in a rock and a hard place where when you play it passive, the only guys that hit on you are gross.
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Right.
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Well, it s so funny because, you know, I always use the metaphor, the old days when the women used to drop the hanky, right?
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And I always tell women that is kind of the sense that you should always have.
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It s giving men signals to come over.
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And I find that most of the time men are just scared.
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you know, they re scared of rejection, they re looking for some sort of smoke signal to come over and talk to you.
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And women have no idea how closed off they are with their body language and their messaging, the way they hang out with girls in a group and close off any kind of opportunity for men to approach.
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And I think overall, the roles are kind of merging where
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Men are becoming more like women.
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Women are becoming more like men.
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And so now we re at a standoff.
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But yet at the end of the day, men still want women to be women and women still want men to be men and approach.
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So that s what I teach women is that instead of, you know, taking the hanky, crumpling it up and throwing it at them, that s the aggression.
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It s just dropping the hanky and giving a signal so that actually people are meeting each other.
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And OK, so we re going to have to dissect that a little bit because dropping the hanky.
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They re on Amazon right now looking for hankies.
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This is important enough for guys too if you re single and frankly if you re in a relationship because I want to highlight this plight to put a little dramatic spin on it because I ve heard a lot of talk I should say from guys not even just AOC clients and not even just people on the internet But just in general they re like ah women have it so easy It s not a problem and even comedians like Amy Schumer.
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They make light of it by going whatever I m a hundred and sixty pounds and I can catch a dick anytime I want but we re not talking about that and
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We re talking about finding somebody to start a relationship with.
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We re not talking about easy access to sex.
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We re talking about starting social interactions, starting relationships.
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And it can be really tricky because between guys and girls not even knowing how to flirt in the first place, we end up with this nuclear detente in whatever venue you re at where people are very rarely interacting with each other.
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and it s really bad for the women.
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It s bad for men and women, but the women really are, like I said, between a rock and a hard place.
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So let s back up a little bit.
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What is the definition to you?
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What is flirting in general?
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Because for me, I m thinking I m making her laugh, and she likes it, and then I touch her a little bit, and she touches me back, and then phone number, dot, dot, dot, profit, right?
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Let s make sure we re on the same page here.
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Well, that s just it, is that, you know, anytime, and I do a lot of lecturing and workshops, and anytime I have people raise their hand and say, how comfortable are you with flirting?
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Hardly anybody raises their hand.
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I think people have a connotation of what flirting is in their own definition due to their own insecurities, fears, you know, what they ve seen, what they haven t.
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But if you look in the dictionary, this is what s so fascinating, at the definition
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of flirting is to behave as though attracted to or trying to attract someone but without serious intentions of an outcome.
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I mean, think of that.
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So if we all just thought of learning as just a playful gesture, as you had said, but for women too, without a serious intention of an outcome, it s so much easier.
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For me, it s creating a magnetic energy.
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It s getting people
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to just want to come talk to you.
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I always say, you know what?
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Stop targeting a man to flirt with necessarily, but just flirt with life.
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Create this energy where people want to get to know you.
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Okay, so for most people, flirting doesn t sound like serious intent, but that s even more problematic, because let s, for the sake of this episode, let s assume we re talking about females that are interested in starting a relationship, they re single, they re not just looking for the late night booty call, they don t want to be used as such.
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So, what s the problem here?
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Well, okay.
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I find, you know, when I go out into the field with these women, you know, a lot of them will say to me, you know, I don t understand.
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I ve done all this work on myself.
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I ve gone to years of therapy.
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I m so ready to meet a man, the right man for me.
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And then I m always like, show me, don t tell me.
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And we go out in the field and they re not at all as open as they think they are.
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And
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After digging deeper, working with these women, I found that there s kind of these like top five excuses that a lot of women have around what flirting is about.
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The first one is, I m not attracted to anyone.
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Like we ll walk into a room and she ll say, Oh, you know, there s no one here that I like.
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And a problem with being that target specific is that
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that you re closing yourself off to many opportunities.
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You know, there could be an older gentleman that you talk to that has a son for you.
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I ll tell you a true story around this.
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I walked in to a bar with a client.
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It was lunchtime.
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I always tell women go to like a lunchtime place where everybody can just you know, sit down and chat.
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Most men are eating by themselves.
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It s a great way to meet men.
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So
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But doesn t that require then her to go up and approach him?
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No, not at all.
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Why?
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It is important for men.
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It s important for women to position themselves.
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And that s kind of like a secret weapon that I ll disclose later.
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But anyway, back to my story.
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So we were sitting at the bar and I told my client, talk to everybody and anybody, don t worry if he s not like within your range of age or weight or any of the requirements that she had.
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So this guy sits down, three reasons why he was not her type.
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He was married, he was overweight, and he was twice her age.
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But I told her, don t worry about it.
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I want you to talk to him and let s just be flirtatious and fun.
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So we were, we had the best conversation.
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Fast forward, later in the conversation, he s like, you girls are so much fun.
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Do you happen to be single?
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And I said, well, actually, my friend is who was my client.
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He goes, good, because I have a guy who I think would really like you.
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I m like, great, bring him on.
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Where is he?
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And so he said, You know what, I think I ll meet you guys with him later that night.
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I kid you not later that night.
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We ended up, you know, texting each other, he met us out.
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My client and his friend ended up totally hitting it off and they are still dating.
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This is funny, because it s analogous to what we teach in our social capital program, which is essentially, you re not going into this thinking of a transactional outcome.
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Like, okay, I want to date this guy that I see at this venue.
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Let s make it happen.
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You re looking at this like, look, I m just going to explore every opportunity that I have to meet people.
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and eventually this will either work out or not, but it might not be with somebody directly that we re meeting right now, and that was the case here.
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Guys do the same thing.
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They go, ah, none of the girls in here are what I m looking for.
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Let s go to the next place.
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And then, of course, if you make friends with a bunch of the people there, they all have friends, sisters, relatives, whatever, and they can all introduce you to people.
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So you have to look more than just one layer or one move
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You can t just go window shopping for a mate and hope that it works out.
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Exactly, that s a great way of putting it.
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Yeah, okay, and another excuse I hear women especially all the time is, I don t want to give off the wrong signals.
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Because see, women fear that if they show an interest in a man, then they ll be falsely leading him on.
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But again, if you look at the definition of flirting, it s to behave as though you re attracted or trying to attract something or someone without a serious intention.
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there s no wrong signals like women, we have the choice of who to choose and who not to choose to move on.
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And you know, we re all in the dating game together.
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You know, I ve never met anybody or any man who went to the hospital.
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Because a woman said no to him, you know, yeah, I may hurt a little but
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And I tell women all the time, wouldn t it be a great problem to have if you have the choice of saying no to a lot of men?
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I mean, most women can t even get one man to say hello to her.
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So again, it s opening up the field and not having so much buy in into the outcome.
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Interesting, right, thinking, well, if I say hello and smile, he s gonna wanna date me and get married.
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But is that not an unreasonable fear that if you smile at the wrong guy, he s gonna friggin  follow you home from the grocery store?
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I mean, that does happen.
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Well, I know, but I think most people can use good judgment on that.
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I mean, if you re getting a weird sense from that guy, I think most people can read people pretty well.
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I give people the benefit of the doubt in that.
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And of course, you re not going to do anything that s going to put yourself in danger, probably not going to smile at a guy in a dark alley.
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But if you re just out and about, there is nothing wrong with smiling and saying hi to somebody.
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Most people really welcome that because no one s doing it anymore.
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That s the second excuse.
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The third excuse I hear all the time is, I want him to like me for my intelligence, not as a sexual object.
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It s kind of along the same lines.
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You know, sometimes women lead with their intelligence because they don t want the man to just think of them as an object and want them to respect them.
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But the problem with that is that that s where women can fall into the friend zone.
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If you re not, you know, having fun and embracing your femininity and being playful, then you re just like another dude having a conversation about business or sports.
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And that is also something that I see a lot of women do.
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So excuse number four, I m not comfortable doing those things.
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So women will say to me, you know, they think they have to be like the highly sexualized Samantha in sex in the city, you know, and the truth is, there s many ways of flirting to discover like what s right for you.
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There s not one flirting technique.
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I ll tell you a quick personal story.
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When I was first
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divorce, my life seriously changed when I got my first good friends, like my sex in the city friends, right, we would go out, we would practice flirting.
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And for me, it was fascinating, because each of my friends had a different technique.
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My one friend, she was that girl, she would walk in the room, she would like twirl her hair, be all googly eyes to the guys.
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And you know what, it worked.
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But I knew that that wasn t something comfortable for me.
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My other friend, she did it all with her eyes.
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She would walk in a room, she would look at a guy and she just she knew how to do it.
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And I kid you not, every time she did it, a guy would be by her side within five minutes, just all the nonverbals.
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And then my third friend, she did it with sense of humor.
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And, you know, for me, it was kind of finding my own, it was almost like a mix of all my friends until I got to the place where it was comfortable.
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I think when things are uncomfortable, it s because you know, you haven t done it before, you re rusty, or you re out of practice, especially if you know, you haven t been in the dating scene for a while.
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So that s, you know, the other excuse.
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And then the final excuse,
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is I just don t know how.
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So you know, if you ve been in a long relationship, or you ve never dated before, you never really learned how you didn t have role models of what flirting is about, it can be again, uncomfortable.
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But if you think of it more as an experiment, and just having fun and being playful and not putting too much pressure on yourself, you can learn slowly, especially if you go out like I do with my friends.
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And you have, you know, watch people who do it.
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Well, it s the best way of learning.
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So what are we talking about in terms of nonverbals for women here?
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Women are going, what nonverbals?
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And if it s like, well, there s just tons, that s super unhelpful, right?
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Right, right.
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Well, I can tell you there s a couple things I know works, and we said it already, smiling.
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Smiling and making eye contact is probably the biggest and best way to just grab a guy s attention.
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You know, even if you see a guy across the way, and you notice him noticing you, take that in, accept it, and then look back and smile.
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That s what guys are looking for.
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They re looking for that in, you know, and again, and I tell guys this too, it s not the creepy stare.
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But it s just a look, maybe look down and look again for, you know, affirmation.
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So that is definitely something.
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And then if you engage in conversation, and again, if you re comfortable with this, you know, touching him lightly as you re talking, you know, pay attention to your posture.
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put your shoulders back, you know, also be mindful of like a closed off body positioning, a lot of women don t even realize that, you know, by folding their arms, or also, if they re with their girlfriends, especially if seated at the bar, and they re just like,
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talking to each other in a very closed position, guys, they re fearful of like breaking that field.
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And then also slow down the walk.
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You know, we are getting to be such a fast paced society, everyone s in their phones.
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And nobody s like even observant of anything else around them.
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If you just like open up your eyes and see even who s in your energy field and what guys are looking at you and slow down the walk as you enter a room to take it in.
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That is super sexy for a guy, don t you think?
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Yeah, I mean, it depends on the situation.
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It can be a little intimidating as well, and I think that s another rockin  hard place that a lot of women find themselves in is, and we get notes like this, like, I m very confident and I m not afraid to speak my mind, and I think a lot of guys are intimidated by that, and sometimes it s just annoying.
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You know, you can tell by the way that the email s written, like, I m not afraid to speak my mind, and you re like, okay, you re that person who s always gotta be right, but there s other people that say that, and you think, oh, the problem is,
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whatever she s doing is showing that she s not that submissive and she lives in an area where maybe guys are looking for that.
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Maybe she s an East Coaster that moved down to Louisiana and it s not working out that way.
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You know, things like that.
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So I want to help do that.
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Because I think every woman has read Smile, right?
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Like that s just at this point common sense.
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And so I want something a little bit deeper if possible.
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I mean, you would think it s common sense, but it really is.
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I can t tell you how many women don t smile when I m talking to women.
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It s like there s this like rusting bitch face that women have.
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They don t even realize even, you know, like if they re in their head or they re
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thinking about something, it s not even that they re being bitchy, but that they re coming across as bitchy.
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So, okay, besides the smile, just softening, you know, maybe like serious look on your face with your muscles, like just relaxing everything.
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A lot of us are tense in our muscles and our body everywhere.
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and people don t even realize it.
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So those are definitely easy things to do.
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The other thing is, is that men are looking once you re talking to a man, they re looking for that, well, does she like me more than just a friend?
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And so doing things like touching him lightly and laughing and, you know, making little nuances and just being playful, you know, teasing one another, you know, almost think of it when you were in the third grade,
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it s that playful, that, you know, people really enjoy, because I think that now we ve, again, gotten so serious that the conversations become dry a q&a session.
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And then people are just like, Oh, I have no chemistry with her.
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Yeah, it becomes sort of a logical exchange.
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When you say banter and flirting and things and touch, when does that start?
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Because I think a lot of people are imagining in their head walking up and the guy says, hey, you re here for some coffee?
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And she s like, oh, you re so funny and then touches his arm and he s like, whoa, this is a prostitute.
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Well, timing is everything, obviously use discretion.
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But I think the first thing you need to do is make a connection.
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So as a woman, you feel comfortable with a conversation and the way it s going with a man, you re finding yourself attracted to him, you know, bring your body and a little bit closer to him as well.
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That s another thing that I see all the time is the proximity in which people are talking to one another.
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Like if it s, you know, 10 feet apart, and you re trying to talk to the guy, it s not as intimate.
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Obviously, if you are then standing closer, and I always recommend sitting almost like shoulder to shoulder, it s a little less intimidating than just you know, you don t want to be straight on.
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And obviously, if a woman is feeling comfortable enough, and it s within your culture, because that s another thing I find there s cultural differences with touch.
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And that s an important note.
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that you can do that.
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And a guy will love that.
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I m not talking about like rubbing his leg within the first 30 seconds of meeting him.
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But you know, patting him on the shoulder as he s talking, making a funny joke, you know, just tapping him lightly, stuff like that.
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It s a way to connect.
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How do you get him to start the conversation in the first place?
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Okay, so here s the thing is that I believe it s not about what to say, but what s going on in that moment where you can organically and authentically make a connection.
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So, you know, I always tell women first, just, you know, use observation and find out who s in the room.
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Now, that s first and foremost.
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The second thing is, what are you curious about?
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Who do you want to connect with?
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And start with making that nonverbal gesture.
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So whether it s,
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connecting with your eyes, connecting with your body, navigating the room and placing yourself in a position where somebody is more likely to say hi to you.
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And once you do that, then you can feel safe in you know, having a conversation, it could be as easy as just saying hi.
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That s it.
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Hi.
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I mean, guys love that.
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And in fact, I ve said hi to guys and guys practically like jump out of their stool because they re not used to women actually initiating.
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So I always tell women, men are usually more scared of us than we are of them.
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And that is hard to fathom for a lot of my women.
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And it s funny because men come to me all the time.
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It s like what you said in the beginning, Jordan.
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It s like, why do you coach women?
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Like, what do you women have to worry about?
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We re the ones that have to approach you.
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But again, if we re not giving the signals or we re not turning our cab light on, there s no way that a guy is going to come and approach us.
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I like that, turning the cab light on, because that s what it is, because I ll talk to single friends of mine and I ll be like, oh, that girl s really cute.
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Oh, yeah, but she s in bitch mode right now.
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Look at that scowl.
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They re like, oh, she s reading, she s studying, he s going to bother her.
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Oh, I heard she keeps texting somebody.
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It s probably her boyfriend.
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I mean, there s a lot of that.
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Like, these aren t high school guys I m talking about.
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I mean, these are adults.
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some of whom will be in a circle of a bunch of married guys.
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It s not like they ve never seen a woman before, and one single guy, and he s getting the worst advice ever about how it s gonna be scary to go up and do anything, and there s no opportunities, and it s just completely inaccurate.
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I know from years of experience only that I can walk right over there and be like, hey, you know, this is random, but you should meet my friend.
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Is that cool?
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Whenever you re done here.
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And a lot of times they re like, well, who is it?
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And I m like, oh, it s that guy right there with the curly hair.
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Yeah, cool.
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That happens all the time.
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So my single friends, they often love being around me because I ll totally live vicariously through them and do that, you know?
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But that took me the better part of a decade to be able to go and do something like that because I had the same fears as every other guy.
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Yeah, I think that a lot of the fears come from rejection again, and then you re in your head and you re worrying about what to say.
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Again, not worrying of the outcome, just saying hi and getting to know people.
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I know that s easier said than done.
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You know what, women in particular, and this may surprise a lot of men out there, is that we are in our heads a lot too, maybe in a different way, but
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you know, women are thinking mostly that they don t want to bother people.
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So if there s a guy, you know, and he looks busy, or he s in his phone, so many of my women when I go and coach is like, Oh, we can t bother him.
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Look, he s like looking in his phone, or he s watching the game.
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I say, I don t really care.
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Let s go.
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You know, it s like, and again, every time I break that kind of like focus from a guy, I have never ever in the years of doing this, have I ever had a guy say, oh, excuse me, I m busy.
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Can you just like talk to me later?
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Never.
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They love it.
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Because again, normally women don t do it.
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And so it s refreshing.
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You have something you teach called the dating GPS.
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What is that?
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Yeah, because I kind of look at a social setting, whether it be a bar, the farmer s market, the grocery store as a dating battlefield.
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And if you look at it- That s healthy.
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Yeah, but I do, I do.
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A nice adversarial relationship.
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look, if you take the emotion out of it, and you look at it more as strategic, because you know, you teach guys this, but there s not a lot of women thinking about it in this way.
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But if women are more strategic, in thinking about where to position themselves, who is in the room and navigating the room, that is half the battle.
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I ll tell you a quick story around that.
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And I ll tell you how I broke it down.
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So I was, again, telling this woman that I was coaching that positioning
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is everything.
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So we walked into this bar.
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And if you can imagine, the bar area was like a V, right?
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And so the best positioning for a woman is where the epicenter right in the corner, because then you can talk to the people to your left, the people to your right, and then the bartender in front of you.
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And then you re in the position of having everybody have focus on you if you want it.
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So we walked into this bar, and sure enough, there was okay, an empty seat in the epicenter.
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a guy sitting next to it, and then another empty seat on the other side of him, right?
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So he was like in between two empty seats.
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There were also two empty seats all the way to the right at the end of the bar.
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So I said to my client, where would you sit?
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She s like, oh, well, there s two empty seats right at the end.
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I said, wrong answer.
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She s like, what?
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Where else are we supposed to sit?
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I said, right there.
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And I pointed to the epicenter.
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You re thinking like a chess game for you.
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Yeah, it was a total chess game because I m thinking all that guy has to do is scoot over to the right and bam, we re in.
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We have two seats.
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So she said then to me, well, Kim, he s eating.
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He just got his food.
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You can t bother him.
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I said, watch me because again, I don t care necessarily what he thinks.
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All I knew is what I wanted and that was to sit in those seats and to talk to him and other people.
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So I just went in and I said, hi, and he literally jumped off of his stool.
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And he s like, oh, hi.
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I said, you know, my friend and I, we were wanting to grab a couple seats.
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Is anyone in the seat next to you?
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Do you mind?
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We d like sitting in the middle.
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He goes, oh my gosh, not at all.
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So he scooted over and he became like an amazing, amazing person to talk to the entire time.
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And sure enough, it s exactly like I predicted.
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We talked to everybody.
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people to the right, people to the left and the bartender and we created this energy, we literally had the whole room at our disposal.
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So that s what I mean by dating GPS is really navigating the room and women can be more purposeful as we re doing it, but still keep our sense of femininity about us.
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Right, yeah, because you can t take too much of a lead on this.
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You can take the lead if you re a woman, you absolutely can.
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It s just that you re gonna scare away a lot of guys who prefer more traditional roles, which, for better or for worse, is just the reality of the situation.
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But you have to basically make it seem like it s our idea that we re talking with you by becoming so social that we re not afraid that you re gonna go, get away from me, you creep, the second we try.
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exactly i m glad you said that because i wanted to tell you the second part of that story was exactly what you said it wasn t that we were leading everything we just happened to position ourselves so we had a better chance of him talking to us right and so we let him lead the conversation and then we added stuff to it but again we had to give the signal that we
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didn t bite that we were here, we were present and that we were two like interesting, fun ladies to talk to.
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And I think that is something that women struggle with, especially as women are getting stronger, stronger in the work world.
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And again, feel like we kind of have to fight our way to meet a man.
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And I always are saying that, I mean, I think men in general, no matter what age they re at, they do prefer a feminine woman.
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And it doesn t mean dumbing down, but it s a matter of receiving, let a man,
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provide and protect and feel like a man.
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And we ultimately want that too, by the way.
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Even the strongest women I coached, the boss ladies, if you will, they all say the same thing.
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I would love to have a man take care of me.
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So we still want the traditional roles, yet we re kind of losing a little bit of how to go about it.
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So let s wrap with some practicals.
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You ve got something called the three Fs, and I m really hoping that these are good Fs.
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So lay them on me.
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Yeah, it s not the F that you think about, Jordan, although if you do these three Fs, it could lead to that F, but we re not gonna say that.
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Okay, all right, keep going.
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F me, Kim, let s do this.
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Yeah, let s do it.
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So, okay, the first, and it is really the magic formula for attraction, is to have fun.
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We talked about that a lot.
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Women, take your armor off, get playful, you know, take an improv class.
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Play, observe children, do a salsa dancing class.
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You know, anything that gets you in that playful state out of your head and more into your body and having fun is the best.
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And men will enjoy that too.
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If you think about it, I mean, men love playful women and women love playful men.
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It s all that.
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As a generalization that I will take flack for an email, so I m going to call it out right now.
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Yes, playfulness is often attractive.
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Yes, right.
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Okay.
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F number two, pay attention to fashion.
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And this is obviously one of my specialties since I m a makeover expert and I take people shopping to get kind of a rocking style that s, you know, flirty and also attractive for women.
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I m wearing pants that you picked out for me, by the way.
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You are?
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Yeah, right now.
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Oh my god, John Vervenas?
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I don t know.
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Maybe.
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Oh my gosh.
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Oh my god, I m so proud.
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Yeah, no, it s great because, you know, women, I teach women about their body type and what looks good on their body, what colors flatter them, and also what men find sexy.
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I find that women dress for each other, not for men, often.
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And so, you know, because I work with both men and women that I know, I m always surveying the men, I m like, what do you find sexy?
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And I know there s a few things when in doubt women wear dress, wear heels, men in general love it.
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And if you don t know a dress that works for you, if it s not kind of your vibe or your style,
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that s where I can help you.
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So definitely contact me.
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And one of the tips that I also give women, this is just a practical thing is, you know, if there s something that you may be secretly desire that you always wanted to wear that you never thought you could try it on for size and see the response you get, it could be as simple as red lipstick and you never wear red lipstick.
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It could be a red shoe.
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It could be a heel when you re never wearing heels anything that can kind of get you into like a fun Flirty fashionable kind of mindset It s you can almost think of it as an experiment and I kid you not if you if you do this over and over again And just even journal how it feels what kind of response you re getting.
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It ll be like a snowball effect You ll want to do more and more and more
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So that s the second F. The third F is be flirty in your femininity.
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Think about perhaps an icon.
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I mean, all the stuff that we re talking about, flirtiness,
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But I tell people if you don t have a friend, maybe it could be a celebrity or someone you admire who you think is good at the flirting.
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And then just pretend to be that person when you re at a party.
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You know, there s a lot of studies that say if you just act as if, then you will become even if it s not something in your comfort zone, the more you do it, the more it ll become you.
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So if you, you know, look at their mannerisms, their body language, their tonality, statements and quotes they use, a lot of times when I coach people say that they learn more just by watching me than actually doing it themselves, because it almost like rubs off on them.
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And they think of me the next time they go to a party.
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So it could be something simple like that.
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And then, again, pay attention to how other people are reacting to you and write down at least three observations about yourself after doing that exercise.
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What kind of observations?
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Like, are men responding to you?
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Are men asking for your numbers?
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Are you finding that actually more men are coming and talking to you?
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Are you putting yourself in situations where now you re feeling more comfortable around men?
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Anything that you can observe in your body, in the way that you re feeling, and also the results that you re getting.
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Let me ask you this, let me put myself into the metaphorical shoes of the lady here.
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You mentioned earlier, wearing a dress, red lipstick, heels, because men love that.
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What if I don t give a crap about that?
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I mean, what if that s not me?
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I don t wanna do that, I m uncomfortable like that, and screw these guys, I gotta dress up for them?
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Right now, who I am is not good enough?
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I mean, that seems really unfair.
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It s something I hear all the time.
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In fact, like women will come to me and they say, if a man doesn t like me for me, then FM, you know, it s a common thing.
3
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Here s what I say to everybody.
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Look, it s not about changing who you are.
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It s about packaging yourself in a way so that a man gets to know you.
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So if you think of it, like, just taking the emotion out of it, and you have like two business packages, right?
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Same content.
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One is in a manila folder with like chicken scratch and the other is nicely laminated.
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Which one are you going to choose?
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Most people are going to choose the professional one.
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Why?
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Because it looks like it s professional.
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The same content.
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We didn t change the inside.
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So
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this is my whole message to women.
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It s again, don t think of it as changing who you are, but you re marketing yourself.
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So men will get to want to know who all that you are, or you ll be missed.
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Or maybe you re sending a different message with the way that you present in your image than who you are.
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So you know, that s a whole I think other podcast, honestly, is just, you know, looking to
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at your image and what messages you re portraying.
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But it s a I m glad you brought that up because it s something that I think a lot of women struggle with.
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But at the end of the day, men enjoy when you take care of yourself when you feel comfortable in your skin, it doesn t have to be red lipstick.
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but as long as you love you, they will too.
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Yeah, it ll show through, it shines through, and it s confident, and it s really nice.
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It s a nice change of pace for a lot of guys who meet a lot of insecure women, or women that are not very nice to them.
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So if you can get those two things together, you have a huge advantage, because right now you re thinking, but I am really nice.
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Well, good, you got that handled, and the rest of it is kind of up to you.
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It doesn t have to be heels, but yeah, even honestly, smiling over heels any day.
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Oh, totally.
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Smiling and not looking at me like I m a metaphorical piece of dog poop that you just stepped in beats heels any day.
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But can you imagine if you wore heels and smiled at the same time?
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You d be fighting them off with a stick.
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Right.
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Good problem to have.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Thanks so much, Kim Seltzer.
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We have your info in the show notes as well so people can ask questions of you.
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And, of course, people can email us.
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I want to hear what the AOC family thinks about this because I want to do a little miniseries on these in the future.
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I get a lot of email from the female AOC fans that are like, where s the dating stuff for women?
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And this stuff is legit.
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I ve known you for a really long time.
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I know that what you teach works.
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I ve seen testimonials from people that I ve referred to, et cetera, et cetera.
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So I want to hear if you want to hear more about this and we can create a little bit more for the AOC fam, because we don t want to leave out our AOC sisters when it comes to dating and relationships.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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I know.
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And I m really glad you re doing this because every time I talk to the women, they re like, I love your show, Jordan.
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I love it.
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I wish there was more programs for women.
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And that s why you and I are working together.
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So I m excited about it.
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Exactly.
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Thanks so much.
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Interesting stuff, you know, at first I was worried about creating a female toolbox, because I just have no authority to talk about what women are experiencing in the dating world.
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So I m glad that we re able to bring in somebody like Kim, who s been through a lot and has been teaching it for years and years and years, and she really knows what she s talking about.
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So getting this stuff articulated is gonna be a little tricky, but I hope this helps the AOC sisters out big time, because I think we ve finally gotten several hundred emails about this to the point where I can t ignore it anymore.
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And one thing that really strikes me after prolonged conversations with Kim is how similar, at least the initial trivialities of dating are between men and women.
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Well, I m afraid of rejection.
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Well, I don t want to start the conversation because of X, Y, Z reason.
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Those reasons might be different, but we have the exact same problems.
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That s why I think it s helpful for men to listen to this too if you re single, even if you re not, frankly, to get an inside look at what s going through the
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the heads of anybody on the market, and a lot of this stuff, frankly, applies everywhere, dating or outside of it.
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We don t start conversations and networking because we re afraid of the exact same things.
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We just don t have the exact same goals, the exact same outcome in mind.
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If you enjoyed this one, don t forget to thank Kim on Twitter.
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We ll have her Twitter linked in the show notes as well as her resources mentioned on the show.
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You can tap the album art in most mobile podcast players to see the show notes right on your phone.
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I also post tons of stuff on Twitter that never makes it to the show.
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Articles, insights, other stuff.
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I am at The Art of Charm on Twitter.
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Remember, subscribe on iTunes, share it with your friends.
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We ve got our iPhone and Android apps as well.
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And when you review us, it not only makes us feel proud, it helps keep us up in the ranks so that other people who can use this information can find the show more easily to get the credible advice they need.
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It s also the best way to support the show other than purchasing products and training from us.
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Special thanks to the Jasons and Fogarty for their help in production of the Art of Charm podcast.
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Go ahead, tell your friends.
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The greatest compliment you can give us is a referral to someone else, either in person or shared on the web.
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Now have a great week and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to the Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and more at theartofcharmpodcast.com.