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This is the art of charm.
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Learn everything you need to know to crush it in business, love, and life.
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Today we re talking with Dr. Jeff Spencer.
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We re gonna be covering how to create a life that s in alignment with our talents, his experience of the Munich Olympics tragedy, which, trust me, we ll make it relevant, and why it s important to decide how you re gonna show up every day, because how you act reflects on other people s performance,
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your legacy statement and how to create it, how you can t outrun your blind spots, and, of course, passion, purpose, and productivity.
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So enjoy this one with Dr. Jeff Spencer, and welcome to The Art of Charm.
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I m Jordan Harbinger.
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The Art of Charm brings together the best thought leaders, teachers, and exceptional individuals to teach you how to be a top performer in life, love, and at work.
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Imagine having a mix of experienced mentors teaching you their expertise, packing decades of research, testing, and tough lessons into a curriculum.
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We may not have all the answers, but we certainly have all the questions.
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Make sure to stay up to date with the Art of Charm and get some great stuff that we don t or can t share on the show by signing up at theartofcharm.com.
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that s where we ll email you our Fundamentals Toolkit that covers topics like body language, nonverbal communication, persuasion, business networking, public speaking, negotiation, and a whole lot more.
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I m also doing regular videos with drills and exercises to help you move forward every single week.
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We ve also got our live programs running here in Los Angeles, California, and we ve got the Social Capital Challenge at theartofcharm.com slash challenge, or you can text charmed, that s charmed, to 33444.
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This challenge is all about improving your networking and connection skills and inspiring those around you to develop a personal and professional relationship with you.
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This will make you a better networker, it will make you a better connector, and if you wanna have some accountability, you can invite your friends as well over at theartofcharm.com slash challenge or have them text charmed to 33444 and they can join the challenge too.
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Alright, here s Dr. Jeff Spencer.
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So, tell us what you do in one sentence.
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I help Olympians or athletes win gold medals.
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I help businessmen make millions of dollars.
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I help thought leaders move to the next level by managing the very narrow path as they get towards the top.
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So that s a lot of stuff.
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So what would you say your job title is if you had to pack it into a couple of words?
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How about this?
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I enable the impossible when everything s on the line.
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Okay, and give us an example of that in action.
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What does that mean?
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You ve got a gold medal athlete that s favored to win the gold medal and two weeks before the Olympic finally starts to mentally unravel.
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And he s got the best coaches, he s got the best equipment, he s got the best of everything, but yet he s mentally starting to cave.
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And so they call me in and I help him win the gold medal.
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All right, and that sounds like a big job.
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Yeah, so everything s on the line.
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I mean, this is like a lifetime on the line.
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Yeah, it s like the A-team, you know, if you ve got a problem, if no one can help.
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It is.
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It s like no re-dos, right?
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And you can t get it wrong.
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Right.
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If nobody else can help and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-team.
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Well, yes, it s like I m the red telephone, right?
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It s like.
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Yes, the red telephone.
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I m the red telephone, yep.
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How did you start doing that?
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I wanna start chronologically here, because that s how people s brains organize information.
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We will skip around, because that s how my brain organizes information.
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Yeah, no problem.
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It s like, really, I ve always had that gift.
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It s like, I ve always been able to recognize circumstantial patterns and know in an instant what the solution is to move forward.
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I ve always had that sort of clairvoyance.
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And as I ve kind of gone through the evolutionary steps of acquiring my knowledge and my expertise, it s found its way into the highest echelons of performance, whether it s business, sports, stage, life itself.
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And that s really what I do.
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And I would say the other distinguishing characteristic about myself is that
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I m really a corner man, I m not really a coach, I m not really a mentor.
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They have significant liabilities when you re making decisions at the highest level, meaning that because of my training, I was an Olympic athlete, so I know what it s like to compete at the top.
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I have a master s degree in sports science, so I understand the body requirements to push, and I create sustainability.
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I was international sports chiropractor of the year, so I know how to get and stay well, and I m the guy that you can go to, almost like a one-stop Jiffy Lube shopping center for
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being able to look at your universe and decide what the path is to the top, and once you get there, how do you stay there?
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I m kind of an expert in the hole.
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rather than just an expert in a slice of the pie.
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And that s really the problem because you have coaches and mentors that know a certain percentage of what has to go right to create and maintain greatness.
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But the assumption is that they hope that the rest of your life doesn t get in the way.
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In me, because of my background, I ve been successful in many areas.
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I help people in many areas become successful.
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There s nothing that I don t consider in the decision making at those critical moments where you ve got to get it right.
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or better yet, avoid the problem that doesn t have to happen, that will take you and predictably take others out of the game.
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So really, a holistic approach in every sense of the word has really given me that kind of qualification as a corner man, kind of like, and really where that came from was Rocky had Mickey, the old guy in his corner that had been around and really understood the patterns and knew what to do in real time.
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for Rocky to be able to win the round and become a perennial world champion.
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I mean, that s kind of like what I do.
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And that s a strangely complicated job, because if you just watch a corner man, it looks like they hold the mouth guard, they shoot water in your mouth, and they dry you off with a towel, and you re like, anybody can do that.
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Yeah, that s sort of true to the novice.
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But the critical thing is, can you step up and do the right thing when it counts?
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That s the issue when you don t have time to think about it.
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You ve got to have the right solution now, not later.
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You have to be prepared to step into that responsibility with 100% certainty without any deliberation or hesitation.
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because you may not get the chance ever again.
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And that s the level that I play at.
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And it s not really about the discipline, whether it s business, sports stage, it doesn t matter to me, because those are technical skills.
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It s really about how we show up and what decisions we make under critical circumstances.
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And you ve been doing this for 40 years, according to the highly credible internet that I found this information on.
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What exactly have you been doing these years?
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Because that s a long, long time, and nobody starts, hopefully, where they end up.
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So what sort of key elements do we need to know from your past that got you where you are today, on the path, not your past, sorry?
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Well, certainly, I m an observer of why it is that people who can and do do, and why people that can and do don t.
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And I feel that, personally, my dad was a genius that died homeless on the streets of New York City.
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That kind of doesn t work out in terms of the expectation in the math, because it seems like if you ve got the will and the talent, which is the mantra, and you ve got the technology and the technique, you should be able to achieve whatever it is that you aspire to.
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And, of course, that s not true.
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And so I wondered about what that was at an early age because I had aspirations to become an Olympian at the age of seven.
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That s all I wanted to be.
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So I studied the discipline.
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And so I was fortunate to have good coaches that ultimately did coach me to become an Olympian, an Olympic cyclist.
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And so I know what it s like to compete at the top because I ve been there.
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And between my sophomore and junior year,
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I went to the Olympics and I was a student at the University of Southern California on scholarship because I come from a welfare family studying sports science and I went on to then get my master s degree in sports science.
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And so I naturally attracted a bunch of people from every discipline who wanted to become their own champion.
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And they figured that I knew something about it since I was an Olympian and also had a master s degree in sports science.
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And I found that they also had a lot of questions about getting well and staying well and injury prevention and management.
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So I went back to chiropractic college and got my licensure and became international sports chiropractor of the year in 2004.
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with those assets behind me, I really became an expert in the whole rather than just the part.
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And so people at the top, they want to make sure that there was someone that gets the entirety of their universe, not just a segment of it.
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Because if you only understand a segment of it, you may not
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be giving a recommendation that considers the rest of the parts that have to be there to get to where they want to go.
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So there s a certain element for risk.
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And, you know, my job is to take the 98 percenters in leadership and give them the extra 2% so that they can be the standouts and hopefully iconic in their disciplines.
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So naturally, there was an interest in me because I was a place where the people at the top could go to get everything.
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And at the top, you re busy.
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You don t want to go to 20 or 30 different appointments and collect different data that may be conflicting or cross-current to each other.
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They want a credible source that considers everything because of the magnitude of the risks that they take at that level, and they don t want to make mistakes.
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So that s how I kind of found my way, and it s fairly incestuous there, because if you have a proficiency with one person, they all know each other, and the discipline doesn t matter.
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A Bono knows Lance, Lance knows
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Joe Polish, Joe knows Richard Branson.
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And so the word kind of gets around.
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So that s how I found myself at the top.
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took 30 years to get there, but that wasn t my aspiration.
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I mean, I spent literally over 40 years buried in the lives of some of the most prolific performers of our era, crafting and helping them and being part of the voice in their head that kind of directs and guides the process to get there.
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So, I ll also say this, is that if you re talking about this level of responsibility where you re a custodian for literally
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people s futures and what their legacies will stay about them and what they do with their talents and their time, you better make sure that you don t make a mistake.
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And it s like you cannot study people at the top and really understand the process of what it really takes to advise people to get there and perform at that level indefinitely unless you ve been there yourself.
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It s not possible.
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a minute ago when you said that your father died homeless on the streets of New York even though he was a genius.
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That obviously is not something I want to skip over because it seems like it had enough of an impact on your life that you cited as probably one of your earlier memories of, okay, I don t want that to happen.
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And being smart or being able to, having the capacity to be a high performer does not equal being a high performer.
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It sounds like you realized something along those lines.
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Yeah, a hundred percent.
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Yeah.
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And it s like, you know, I don t have a chip on my shoulder, but I am a champion of people having a chance to be able to experience what they re capable of.
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And many of the methods and models out there are really more myth than reality.
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And the tragedy of that is, is that when people invest their hope and their time and their resources in some of these methods,
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that you look at the model and you say, this can t possibly go there, and the process is tantalizing, then people don t get there, then they think, well, the problem s them, because the expert must know, so they quit, or they give up on themselves.
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And I m saying that, no, there isn t.
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There s things that you need to know, because nobody s really born a champion.
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You acquire the skill, it s a learned skill, it s not an accident.
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And there are certain things that fundamentally, one has to understand,
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to be able to make the decisions that will enable them to be able to have a chance to experience what they re capable of predictably and also hopefully make that their normal rather than the occasional exception.
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Were you really young when your dad started to break down?
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Yeah, the last time I saw him when I was 13.
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And I found out 30 years later through an interesting series of consequences how he died and where he died.
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So when you were seven, you said you wanted to be an Olympian since that age.
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That s correct.
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What s the memory of having that realization?
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How did that come about?
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Yeah, I watched it on television.
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I was just a really inactive kid, and I thought the coolest thing ever would be to march into the Olympic Stadium on the opening day ceremonies and make that right turn onto the track.
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I mean, that s what I was more interested in than which sport it would be.
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I just thought that that would just be an amazing accomplishment.
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I was motivated by that and there was a series of events that did lead to me becoming an Olympian that I give all my thanks to my mentors and those people that helped me along the way.
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It was riveting.
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I mean, it s like, have you ever seen a cat look at a mouse in the way they have that riveted field of gaze where they re locked on or a pit bull clamps onto something and they re not gonna let go.
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It s a fight to the death.
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That s how I felt about the Olympics.
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I mean, there was just a passion and a drive to me.
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It s almost like it chose me rather than me choosing it.
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It was a compulsion, it was an obsession that I had, but it wasn t to try to prove something to anybody.
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It was really a chance within myself to explore something extraordinary that I was intrigued by.
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And so it wasn t like trying to avoid the disintegration and the unraveling of my parents that I was witness to, where they forfeited every one of their gifts as incredibly talented people.
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But it was really a kid that was willing to
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follow the path and take guidance to have a chance to explore the extraordinary, which to me was like outer space, right?
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It was similar to, I guess, an astronaut going into space for the first time is something that you think about, you wonder about.
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It s an epic achievement of humankind, and that s the way I felt about it.
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A lot of people are probably wondering why I m focusing on this early stuff instead of some of your current content.
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But the reason is in part because you ve mentioned in your work that you help people and teams create the readiness for what you say are the three to five pivotal moments that make or break their career and life each year.
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These sound like very pivotal moments in your own life.
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Well, there s no question about it.
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And it s like quite literally most of the days of our
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year are fairly dull and mundane.
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But really, those are the days of preparation where you create the readiness so that when the opportunity shows up, that you re able to seize it.
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And I ll go a step further to say that what I ve observed over the 40 years that I ve been in the high performance space, that there is a
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a predictable path that has 10 different steps, which is the champion s blueprint that every prolific performer in any discipline follows to develop the capacity to be able to achieve their champion goals on the first try and also create a massive legacy.
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And if we don t understand the success path, then no detailed plan or will
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or effort or goal can likely be achieved because the understanding of what the path really is will compromise a person s ability to get to where they want to go.
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There s no question about that.
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The second thing is that if we don t know where we are in our process on the path, then we re just guessing at our future and we re throwing all the mud
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at the hope of getting to where we want to go.
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And I m saying that if we know the path and we can take and look at Jordan and we can give Jordan the thumbtack, we can take that thumbtack and put it on the map on the wall and we can give it a name like Jordan, you are here.
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we can look at history and history tells us that if we re here on the path, this is what we should expect, both good and bad.
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And so if you know the hidden dangers of where you are in advance, because history sort of revealed that, because there is no unique path that hasn t been on before, then we can prepare for it and we can disarm the liabilities and create the readiness to seize the brass ring and avoid the potholes that most people predictably step into and derail their lives of achievement and prosperity and passion from.
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And so, for me, it goes back again to the fact that success is a learned behavior, and it s not an accident, and it s the purposeful outcome of very deliberate actions that are consistently applied.
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And no amount of big thinking can get you beyond the skills that you do not have.
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How did you come to the number three to five?
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I mean, you must have looked back at your athletes and your performers and reverse engineered this and gone, okay, this is a pivotal moment, this is a pivotal moment, this is a pivotal moment.
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Yeah, exactly right.
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You know, the champion blueprint, my model, has really been 50 years in its creation, and it was observed into being through my experience at the top with top performers in all disciplines.
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And, you know, I sat down at a restaurant one day and I said, Well, can I draw what this looks like the common thread that they all share?
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Because it s not their discipline.
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You know, the common thread is that they re humans that
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do certain things in certain situations that are predictable.
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And if we can understand that, then we can apply that basic technology to anybody because you re not born with it.
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You re born with a human instinct that has more confidence in your ability to fail than it does in your ability to win.
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So it s really something that I looked at, I crafted, I studied, it was birthed from my experience being deeply buried in the lives of prolific performers.
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How do you identify and label a pivotal moment?
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Is this something that needs to be done externally?
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Obviously it needs to be done after the fact.
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And maybe I m wrong, maybe you can t just go, this is a pivotal moment, because you don t really know until the outcome is already in place.
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Well, you can if you re not ready for it.
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But if you are ready for it, the probability of it happening is pretty high.
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For example, with my clients, if I can locate where they are on the blueprint, then I have a pretty good idea of what the high risk situations are of being where they are.
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And I also have a pretty darn good idea what the opportunities are going to be.
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So we prepare for both.
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so that we re ready for any eventuality.
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And so when we look at the characteristics of a pivotal moment, we would say that it s a high potential for both good and bad.
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It could take you out of the game.
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Make or break.
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Yeah, make or break.
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It s high potential.
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It could go either way, right?
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And that all depends on your readiness.
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The other thing about pivotal moments is that you can safely say that there ll be three to five each year that determines the success or the failure of your year.
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No question about it.
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The other thing that we could say about pivotal moments is that there s no redos.
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There s no take backs.
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Right, this is something that, the stakes are, it s all in.
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You re all in.
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That s exactly right.
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And it s like whether you wanna be or not, because another characteristic of them is that they show up unannounced.
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They re kind of involuntary.
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They are.
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Yeah, it s like a reflex, you know?
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It s like, you don t know when they re gonna show up.
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Again, most people s lives are, well, I ll get ready once I see the vision.
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Well, I say it s different.
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Let s get ready.
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So when the predictable shows up, you re ready for it, both good and bad.
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How do you identify these?
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I mean, we sort of went through the scale, right?
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You look back at people s performance or you look back at the history.
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It s not just their individual history.
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It s the whole, it s human history.
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This is a perfect example.
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I was talking with someone today and they just had this massive success.
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And I said to them, okay, well, congratulations on that.
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It was a great achievement.
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and you deserve to have it.
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But I want you to watch for the human tendency to believe that now you need to push harder because you got the wind at your back.
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You re gonna wanna go for more because there s no intellectual reason not to go for more.
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But we re not talking about this through what common sense is, we re looking at this through the eyes of what the champion would do.
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The champion would rest their team and they would pause and recoup some resources before they push forward.
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Because right now you put a lot of time and effort in getting to where you are,
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and you may not have the resources in terms of time, space, team, financing, et cetera right now because of the burn rate to get where you are to be able to move to the next level.
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So I advise that you pull back a bit and you recoup some of the resources so that you can safely get to the completion of the next ambition.
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Can you give us some examples of this?
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Because I think the concept is hugely important, but I m trying to make it more tangible.
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Yeah, sure.
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So it s like we have a business guy that we wanted to take his business to $5 million.
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And okay, so great, we got $5 million towards the end of the year, and so he s gonna have a Christmas party.
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for everybody and kind of reward everybody and acknowledge everybody for getting the $5 million.
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And he was going to announce at that time that the new target for the next year was going to be to go from $5 to $10 million.
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That s ridiculous.
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These guys have given you everything, every ounce of what they ve got to get you to the $5 million mark.
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And what they need is relief and they need rest and they need recovery.
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They need to see you as human.
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And they need to know that you re one of them and always consider team first.
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and if you go out there and you announce your personal goal that they construe themselves to be the slaves to be able to achieve, then you re creating a mutiny for yourself.
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I say the best thing you can do right now is give the team the week off between Christmas and New Year s because they re not gonna be able to perform now anyhow and you re gonna see yourself as a human and they re going to give you every bit of their allegiance capital for the next 12 to 18 months as a result of that act.
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It s classic.
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You could also take the athlete.
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It s like his performance starts to decline, and so he misinterprets it as being not fit enough, so he goes out and he overtrains, and he gets sick or injured, which is 100% predictable, because he misinterpreted the circumstances.
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There s two ways of looking at every circumstance.
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You could look at it through human nature, that s usually fairly pessimistic, and you re asking the question, what do I stand to lose?
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Or you could look at it through the eyes of the champion.
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And we also have a champion nature.
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We have two natures.
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We ve got a human nature and we ve got a champion s nature and they re at war with each other 24 hours a day.
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I think we all know that.
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Should I or shouldn t I?
2
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So again, the champion would say, what is it that I stand to gain here?
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Which is optimistic and it s also proactive.
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So it s really important that we understand the forces that we re dealing with when we re talking about creating a life of extraordinary achievement.
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you may luck into and be a one-act wonder, but you really can t call yourself a master of your discipline with a one-hit record.
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Right, and probably shouldn t bank on it.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, you should not, because you have to be able to dissect that and understand the process that got you there.
2
SPEAKER_00
You have to own that, and so that s another example, Jordan, is that, like in the champion blueprint model, one of the steps is, it concludes in the achievement of your goal.
2
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And it s like, when you achieve your goal, it s not like you re exactly finished the job, unless you decide it s a one stop goal and you re out.
2
SPEAKER_00
But now it s like where the hard work kind of begins, because if you want to stay in the long game, you better make sure that you understood how you achieve that so that you can iterate it further.
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and make the adaptations necessary to run with the lead pack in a rapidly and dramatically changing world, and that you can make sure that you have the team that can support that, that the ones that help you get to the first goal haven t outlived their shelf life.
2
SPEAKER_00
Again, the stakes that we re talking about, we re talking about the battle for your legacy, which is the immortal footprint that you re gonna leave on human history.
2
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Whether you like it or not, we re all gonna leave a legacy that s gonna say something to other people, a roadmap to some as to what to do, a roadmap to others as to what to stay away from.
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And so, with that, I think that it s extremely important that we deliberately have counsel or structure that allows us to prudently make decisions about how we move forward responsibly, not recklessly, to get to where we wanna go, and then build on that to be able to stay there, to create a life of meaning, purpose, and contribution.
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SPEAKER_03
Now, you were in the Olympics in 72, correct?
2
SPEAKER_03
That s correct.
2
SPEAKER_03
Was that Munich?
2
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_03
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_03
Not to get too far off topic, but what was that like?
2
SPEAKER_03
Because that s a very historic moment.
2
SPEAKER_03
For those who don t know, that was when the Olympic Games were attacked, I think for the first time in history or recorded history or something like that.
2
SPEAKER_03
Is that correct?
2
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I got up in the morning, I went outside, it was about 7am, and it was cold.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m from California, and Germany s a little bit cold in September, and I could see my breath, and I saw people amassing 200 feet from me, so I went over and said, what s up?
2
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And I looked at one of the people, and he had his arm outstretched with his index finger pointing up to a balcony in the Olympic Village where I was.
2
SPEAKER_00
I followed the finger, the trajectory,
2
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And I looked up there and there was a guy on the balcony wearing a ski mask over his head.
2
SPEAKER_00
And in that apartment lay two dead athletes that were shot at 4.30 in the morning, murdered by Palestinian terrorists.
2
SPEAKER_00
And there were another nine being held hostage as I was watching this unfold.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then all of a sudden I felt the rumble underneath me of the armored vehicles coming into the underground parking structure and the helicopters coming in and I saw the
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military rappelling out of the helicopters in Olympic sweatsuits of the countries with machine guns around them onto the Olympic
2
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village structure that would be apartment buildings after the Olympics were done, and that s where the saga really began, and I felt like I had stumbled onto a movie set in a Hollywood stage.
2
SPEAKER_00
One of the most devastating, most impactful moments of my entire life.
2
SPEAKER_00
To know that, several hours later, when the nine athletes were being held hostage, were transported to the Munich airport under the direction of the terrorists,
2
SPEAKER_00
And they were loaded into a helicopter.
2
SPEAKER_00
And one of the terrorists got nervous and dropped a hand grenade on the floor and blew the helicopter up.
2
SPEAKER_00
And in that incident, I lost nine family members.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I think about the mother that will never walk that kid down the aisle.
2
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I think about the father that will never be able to throw that baseball to his son ever again, all at the hands of some insanity.
2
SPEAKER_00
It changed my life permanently forever.
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on a lot of different levels.
2
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And simultaneously that day, I went into in a state of shock and disbelief into the movie theater that was in the Olympic Village that was for athletes only.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it was standing room only.
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And the athletes, it was a very somber, for sure encounter.
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And none of us spoke each other s languages, but we were there to try to make some sense out of this insanity.
3
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And Charlie Chaplin s masterpiece, Modern Times, was playing.
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The entire audience kind of erupted into laughter because it was a comedy.
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SPEAKER_01
And I really understood for the first time
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what it meant to live in a world with one people, with one thought, and one single heartbeat.
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And I lived both of these experiences almost simultaneously within the course of 48 hours.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it had such an impact on me, I completely understand why people come back from the moon and the cat, like relate to the trivialities of life that most people spend their life consumed with.
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I totally got that.
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And so, that is one event that
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permanently change the way that I interact and the way that I commit to what I do in life.
3
SPEAKER_00
Obviously, you never forgot that.
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SPEAKER_00
It sounds like you re describing something that happened last week.
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Well, in a certain sense that it did.
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You know, when you re scarred by the insanity of that, when your expectation is to see the best of what humans have pitted against each other,
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which is the expectation, that s the mantra of the Olympics.
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I mean, it s sidious, healthiest, sportiest, are the three words that are the moniker of the Olympics, swifter, higher, stronger.
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And that s why we as athletes were there, were to see what we had, to challenge ourself against the best that there is, to be able to bring the best of what humanity can give to each other to the public.
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and yet we had this insanity where the pawns were the athletes that spent decades, invested 100% of their time and effort to get there, and yet they were the ones that were exterminated and taken out.
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It s craziness, it s lunacy.
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Expecting to see the best, you instead saw the worst in humanity.
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I did, and on the other side of that, I saw the best when we were in that theater together because I saw it was possible to unite, because I experienced it for the first time at that profound level.
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It wasn t about talk, it was a silent masterpiece.
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That s the thing that brought us together was an unspoken language that we all understood.
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That brought us together as a single unified, almost like a little ecosystem.
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It showed me what was possible.
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But what s possible can only take place under extraordinary circumstances that you have to understand and you have to apply the structure to that to be able to make that your normal.
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Otherwise you re subject to the forces of
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whatever it is that disables a person from getting to the best that they can be and in a position to leave their best contribution.
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It s not possible.
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You can t just make it up.
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You can t just try harder.
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SPEAKER_00
How often do you tell that story?
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SPEAKER_01
I don t know, maybe once every couple of years when people ask me about it, I don t think about it a lot, only because it doesn t come up, but yet the experience and the profound nature of its change in me has altered every DNA molecule in my body and every decision that I make was altered by that, no question about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
By the way, thank you for sharing that with us.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, 100%, yeah, 100%.
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SPEAKER_00
That was a random tangent on my part, and I appreciate your authenticity.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, easy to do.
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SPEAKER_01
This is an open forum of humanity.
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SPEAKER_00
You were the team doctor for the Olympic, the cycling team, correct?
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SPEAKER_01
I did support a couple of Olympic cycling teams in 1984.
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SPEAKER_01
I helped someone win a gold medal in sprint cycling.
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SPEAKER_01
That was the first gold medal they helped someone win.
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SPEAKER_01
That was very rewarding and then was one of the support staff for the cycling team in the 2000 Sydney Olympics.
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SPEAKER_01
And I also worked with an individual in the 96 Olympics.
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I was a participant in one and have been at three others.
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SPEAKER_00
And you re still involved with the Tour de France as well, or you were for a long time.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I did nine tours over the span of 13 years.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow, that s a lot.
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SPEAKER_00
By the way, forgive my ignorance, was Lance Armstrong doing his thing during that time?
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SPEAKER_01
Yes, he was.
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SPEAKER_00
Because he s been around forever, at least as long as I can remember.
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SPEAKER_00
I feel like I have to ask something about the whole performance enhancing stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
I looked at some of the details on this, and it was just a big mess for everybody involved, and it looks like it was so widespread, so I don t wanna just pick on Lance Armstrong.
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SPEAKER_00
The reason he s so well-known is because he was so good, and he won, and he also had to lie about it, but everybody else was lying about it, too.
3
SPEAKER_00
Not that that justifies it, but what do you think about all of that?
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you re coaching the highest end of mental performance.
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SPEAKER_00
Do you view what they do, or what happened with the substances, as cheating or part of getting the most out of your body as a human?
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SPEAKER_01
Let me add a couple of, I think, extremely important points here.
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And, you know, number one, my role at the Tour de France and the Tour de France s that I did is that I was the team chiropractor.
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But I was more than that and everybody knew it.
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I was the guy that not only fixed them physically, but I also fixed them mentally because of my skill in that area.
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SPEAKER_01
As a professional in a drugless profession, I don t really know anything about drugs.
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I don t want to know anything about drugs.
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I never took a drug.
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I never recommended it to anybody.
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that they did take drugs.
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SPEAKER_01
I didn t know anything about the hidden culture at the tour, first and foremost.
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The second thing that I want to say about this is that what I understand from this, from the sources that everybody else has learned this process from, is that I think it s tragic.
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I think that it s a situation that can be looked at
3
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whether in a certain sense there are no winners.
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SPEAKER_01
I think that the athletes lose, the sport loses, the family members of the athletes lose.
3
SPEAKER_01
There are no winners in this.
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SPEAKER_01
There s another personal side to this that I think is worth looking at, and that s that, to understand this, we need to move away from our judgments.
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SPEAKER_01
You know, with Lance,
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I never looked at him as a singular demon or devil, and I never looked at him as a deity.
3
SPEAKER_01
I never looked at him, I kind of looked at him as human.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think it s important to be mindful here that these hands touched Lance two hours a day for seven tours.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was a professional relationship, and if we re gonna gain something from this, and I think there s a lot to be gained from this, it kind of reminds me of the movie title, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
3
SPEAKER_01
And what s really ugly about this is that
3
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People sued people that told the truth about him.
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SPEAKER_01
That s ugly.
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SPEAKER_01
And what s bad about this is that when people look up to people, the little kid that wants to grow up and have the superpowers like his hero, and they find out that the hero was lying, that s bad.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is it a movie or is it a real, I can t remember if it s a real tale.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think it s a movie where the kid comes out of the bathroom stall and says, say it ain t so.
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SPEAKER_00
You know what I m talking about?
3
SPEAKER_01
I do, and it couldn t be more appropriate for this because of the devastation, the disappointment in the role models that I think everyone has an instinct to want to pursue.
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And that s bad.
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SPEAKER_01
But there is another side to this, which is a third word, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
3
SPEAKER_01
So what s good about this?
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SPEAKER_01
What is good about this?
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One of the things that I ve learned from this is that, first and foremost, is that our judgments of people can hurt us and our ability to gain access from valuable lessons that we could learn from them.
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It s our judgment that hurts us.
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SPEAKER_01
And really, how these things and how this plays out, I think, is between the individuals at a certain sense.
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It s between them, their family, and their God.
3
SPEAKER_01
And for us to gain important, valuable information from this, it s important that we come to the middle.
3
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Otherwise, anything that could be gained from this is completely lost.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I would say that the other thing that s equally critical here to be mindful of is that if we expect to learn our lessons for perfect role models and mentors, well then don t plan on learning much of anything from anybody.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s a great point, because emphasis on perfect role model and perfect mentor.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s exactly right.
3
SPEAKER_01
And as far as I know, there aren t many people that fit into that category.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so what do we do with that?
3
SPEAKER_01
And so, again, I believe that we are the losers if our judgments prevent us from learning valuable lessons from people that can create a more effective us to be able to create and contribute on a much higher level.
3
SPEAKER_01
One thing you probably don t know about me, but I was also a hot glass art sculptor, and I showed my art glass in the best galleries in New York City, and it s this event with one of the most well-known glass artists of all time.
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He said that a judgment without further investigation leaves a person blind.
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SPEAKER_01
I never forgot that, and I think that they re right.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think what does matter is that we ask ourselves the question, what is it that we re doing to create
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a stronger reality about what humans are capable and what s the battle that we as humans have to fight that there are no exemptions or free passes from to be able to create a life that s in alignment with our talents and our abilities that we honor.
3
SPEAKER_01
And through our achievements, we honor our mentors and we honor the gift of this pass through this dimensions from our parents.
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We say thank you to our friends, our benefactors and our supporters.
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SPEAKER_01
by achievement.
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SPEAKER_01
And I feel that we have an obligation to learn the skill of what it takes to become the
4
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best that we could be to honor that privilege and how it is that we can influence and speak to others through what it is that we do.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was talking with a guy at lunch today, he s one of my coaching clients that came in, my corner man clients, I don t really call it coaching, I call it corner man clients that came in from New York and we were talking today and I said to him, look, it s like your ability to perform at this level is without question, which is high to say the least.
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The thing I really want you to understand here is that
4
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You don t need to be the perfect example of what this is to be able to execute this perfectly for other people to see and inspire other people to call them to a higher game.
4
SPEAKER_00
Because you kinda gotta work your personal side out while you re performing at the highest level you re capable of, and that s fair game.
4
SPEAKER_00
And don t feel like you have to be the perfect example of what it is that you re sharing or showing before you actually initiate that and show that to other people.
4
SPEAKER_00
because none of us are really where we re capable of being.
4
SPEAKER_00
But yet, part of our therapy to get there is by putting our best effort forward.
4
SPEAKER_00
And what I told him was that you got to decide how you re going to show up every day.
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SPEAKER_00
You know, you got to decide that because the way that you show up is going to call people to a certain level of game.
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And if you don t show up in a certain way, you re going to teach other people that the way that you re showing up is acceptable.
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And why this is personal to me, Jordan, is that we adopted our daughter at 10 years old, seven years ago from Columbia.
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She s a great kid.
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She s now 17 and a half.
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And she got brought up in some very difficult, challenging experiences where most people s worst moment was her life for 10 years.
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SPEAKER_00
And there are certain things that she absorbed from that.
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SPEAKER_00
exposure that she needs to eliminate from her life to be able to move forward and be the manifester of what her capacity is.
4
SPEAKER_00
But the point about this is, is that she absorbed the environments based upon how other people showed up.
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SPEAKER_00
And if other people would have showed up different, then she would not have been saddled with some things that she didn t ask for.
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that hopefully she s gonna be able to move beyond as hopefully we re all gonna be able to move beyond those things that we didn t ask for that are part of the limitations and the resistance that we carry in our life that prevent us from becoming the people that we can potentially be.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that s why it s extremely important in my mind that we look at with honor and with a sense of responsibility to be able to show up and come from the highest place possible because of the way that it speaks to other people.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right, so if I m picking up what you re putting down, it s when we look at something that maybe we re half-assing, or as you say, not showing up fully, which I have a love-hate relationship with that phrase, but I think people know what it means.
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You have to not only look at the effect on your own work, but look at the effect on those around you.
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A hundred percent.
4
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It s like every goal that we consider pursuing, we need to look at the emotive force of that.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s actually step two of my program, The Champion s Blueprint.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like one of the criteria for accepting a goal to pursue is, is to look at what is the goal when achieved going to say to other people and what sort of game and inspiration is that going to be to them?
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SPEAKER_00
if it s not gonna be an inspiration to them, then it may not be a goal worth pursuing.
4
SPEAKER_00
But yet if it s a goal that you envision and see what it does to you in terms of the way that you show up, you speak from a greater position of confidence and certainty, do you enable people to have greater confidence and trust in you as a leader?
4
SPEAKER_00
Do you speak with a tone of voice that s soothing, that welcomes every question where there are no restrictions, there are no boundaries?
4
SPEAKER_00
If you see yourself that as a result of a potential goal you re considering pursuing, and on the other side of that, you see the value that the world s gonna derive from it as being beneficial and positive, and you see the effect of that calling people to a higher game because they now see through your example what s possible, well, then that s a goal worth pursuing.
4
SPEAKER_00
You gotta vet every goal and you gotta see what the outcome is.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s an achievement that ripples throughout all of humanity and it will for all of eternity.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s important that we consider that because if you don t consider that through the legacy value of that, then you re left with kind of one human ambition and that s to get to the top at all costs.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that s certainly what Tiger and Lance have done in a certain sense.
4
SPEAKER_00
And they could not run the blind spots that ultimately is tarnished what the legacy will be.
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you watch Billions, you ever heard of that show?
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve seen it on the billboards, but I ve never watched it.
4
SPEAKER_01
So there s a character, I guess like a psychiatrist, played by Maggie Siff.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re oversimplifying what she does, but it seems like she actually kind of does what you do, where somebody comes in and they go, I m losing, I m losing money, I m on the outs, I don t know how to get back up.
4
SPEAKER_01
And of course, on TV, she s like, envision yourself kicking butt, who s the tiger?
4
SPEAKER_01
And the guy s like, yeah, thanks, and goes out and makes a million dollars.
4
SPEAKER_01
It sounds like they tried to make what you do, but they just threw some Hollywood on it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, my whole deal is this, is that let s make sure that the goal that you re considering is worth pursuing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so we always start in step number one with the legacy first.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like, how do you want your race to end?
4
SPEAKER_00
And if this is not how you want your race to end on its current trajectory, then it s not a goal worth pursuing.
4
SPEAKER_00
Because if it doesn t add to that, then it s just a waste of time and effort that will really dishonor what your potential is.
4
SPEAKER_00
Don t even think about starting.
4
SPEAKER_00
But if it is something that adds to your legacy statement because you ve written it and you understand it and you re fully convicted of it,
4
SPEAKER_00
then it s a goal we re pursuing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And when you match that by looking at step number two, vision, which is how will your goal, when achieved, change you?
4
SPEAKER_00
And is this the way you wanna be changed?
4
SPEAKER_00
And how will it call other people to what game?
4
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And how will this add value to the world?
4
SPEAKER_00
If both of those are in alignment, then that s a goal worth considering and worth pursuing.
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But if it s not, then don t start.
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SPEAKER_00
Because you re not gonna be able to complete it.
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when you will have completed it, it would have been something suboptimal that could have been better served by pursuing something that s in complete alignment with what you want your legacy to be and you want the value of the goal achieved to be able to convey to yourself and others.
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And in your work, you mentioned legacy statements, creating a legacy statement to improve that decision-making process to achieve the right goals quickly with less effort.
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What is the legacy statement?
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Well, there are nine areas of life that can each have their own legacy statement, but basically the legacy statement is that you re defining what area of life this goal that you re considering is in, and you re asking what your role in that process is and what you want to become as a result of your life at the end.
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And it s also asking what it is that you re gonna leave behind for others.
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And be mindful that there are no rewrites on your legacy.
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And if you re thinking about your legacy and constructing at the end of your life, you and nobody else is gonna learn anything from it.
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But if you set it and set your legacy statement up front, and it s meant to be modified through revelation of course, then what it does, it actually acts as a filter that you can measure every potential goal against.
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to make sure that it fits what you want the outcome of your life to be.
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And it s like if your life on its current trajectory ends in a way that you don t want it to end, then you now have time to decide how you are going to modify it so that the legacy that you get one chance to create
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is the vision of your conviction.
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And so certainly my dad didn t have that, otherwise he wouldn t have died homeless.
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I doubt that perhaps Lance or Tiger may have made the decisions that they did.
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Had they really thought about what this might look like on the permanent record, if this actually comes to pass, and on its current trajectory, we re not gonna be able to avoid this indefinitely, because what I do know is that you cannot run your blind spots.
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So legacy s a big deal.
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I think it needs to be a lens that it acts as an integrity lens so that our decisions stay in alignment with what it is that we want to leave behind both in terms of perhaps material resources and also what it is that we want to leave behind in terms of who we are and what we did and how we did it.
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I like that a lot.
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I think it makes sense why this works.
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And it also makes sense that it might decrease the effort involved because you eliminate a lot of the false starts.
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Or at least, it s like doing a maze.
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Yeah, that s exactly right.
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If you do it with a pen first and you go down the wrong one, you re like, crap, you gotta backtrack and go back through.
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Yeah, that s exactly right.
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But if you plan it out in your head, ideally you do it backwards, right?
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If you do the maze backwards, it s really easy at that point.
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That s how I used to do it when I was a kid.
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You cheated, right?
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You just went back and reverse engineered it.
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Yes, and substitute teachers, like here s a maze that involves words, so it s educational.
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I m like, I m doing this backwards, done.
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Now I m reading my books or whatever, or causing trouble, which is more likely.
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But I can see how that would decrease the effort.
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Is that what you mean, then, in that case?
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Because I also see it increases the speed of achievement.
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Well, that s it, yeah, because what you re doing, you re taking resistance out of the system because you re not indecisive or in torment about whether you should or should not do something.
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Because it s black and white.
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Like, does this fit my legacy statement, yes or no?
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And if it doesn t, then you don t do it.
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You know, no matter how compelling it is, you don t do it.
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because if you do do it, that s a waste of energy, it s a waste of time, and it s a waste of resources that you may not get back.
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It s also a waste of opportunity because there may be something that s better that is a little whisper.
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It s an intuitive insight that you may miss because you re too fixated on pushing your ambition through.
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So for me, without a legacy statement,
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it s like a ship without a rudder.
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There is no filter that enables us to make a sane decision about whether we pursue something or whether we don t.
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And it also makes you more convicted and confident in your decision making.
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And the more confident you are in your decision making and what you stand for, the more clear it is who you are as a person that determines those people that you will attract into your life and those people that you won t.
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And I think we all need to draw a line in the sand for who we are and what we stand for.
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None of us deserve to find our lives in our days consumed by everybody else s emergency that becomes our problem.
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But a lot of that is the ambiguity in us about who we are and what we stand for and what line we draw in the sand for what we find acceptable in our presence and what we don t.
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Can you give us an example of a legacy statement in some area of our life, maybe business, just to sort of throw the sports thing aside for a minute?
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Yeah, 100%, and I wanna be really clear about that, is that even though I was an Olympian and I ve helped people win gold medals, I really don t have one sport client right now.
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Everybody that I work with as their corner man to help them get to the top and stay there, it s all 100% in business.
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So, an example of a legacy statement, well, I ll just kinda give you mine, for example.
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My legacy statement, like in business, is that certainly my role is a corner man.
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You gotta define what it is.
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My role is a corner man.
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I m the guy that,
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sees a person in a business s universe that can make the right decisions to be able to avoid the preventable problems and also take the easiest path to the fastest, highest elevation.
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And so that s my role as cornerman.
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The things that I personally want to be known for as a cornerman
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I want to be known as a person that is deliberate, someone that has an extraordinary potential for defining the critical steps that have to go right.
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I want to be known as respectful.
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I want to be known as approachable.
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I want to be known as kind and yet generous.
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I want to be known as decisive.
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And what it is that I want to leave behind in my career area, I want to leave behind training programs and methods that people can follow to be able to become the best version of themselves and continually build on that to amass a series of the most significant number and magnitude
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of champion goals to build a massive legacy that they leave behind to show other people what it takes and also a model step by step of how they can become their own serial success champions.
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So it s very detailed, it s not just like, live an awesome life, bro.
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Right, it s not casual.
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It s not casual, it s like, that s the reason why it should be written.
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Right, that makes sense.
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I feel like a lot of folks go, oh, I have a legacy statement, it s all live life for me and be cool to my family, the end, and that s just not enough.
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No, that s exactly right.
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So in a certain sense, it doesn t mean anything.
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So if you take a pencil to the paper, you really gotta think about it.
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and you really gotta make sure that your words count, and you do it in the fewest words possible, like in the Champion Blueprint Program, in step number one, we actually go through an exercise, it s got five significant, fairly detailed steps, where you re actually crafting, you know, with significant deliberation, you have to kind of wrestle with this, but you do craft out exactly the legacy statement that resonates with who you are in that life area at this time.
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It s significant.
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You gotta take a stand on something.
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Because if you can t take a stand on something, then people don t know who you are.
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You re vanilla.
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There s a certain ambivalence about you.
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And people that play at the top, they don t wanna play in ambivalence.
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They re looking for people that are very clear about who they are, where they re headed, and how they re gonna get there.
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And those are the people with those characteristics that the people at the top wanna partner with, so it creates a win-win for everybody.
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They re begging for people to show up with a level of commitment that shows the ability to push, that has the competence to get to the top, and has the sustainability to stay there, to amass the most significant number and magnitude of champion goal achievements.
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That s what people are begging for.
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It s not an accident.
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There s a lot here, I wanna wrap with a myth here that we wanna debunk that you and I had spoken about pre-show, which is that a loss of passion for something, a lot of people think, oh, you know, I don t feel good about this anymore, this means it s not right for me.
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In your work, you argue it could be a great sign, actually, a good sign.
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Well, if you don t have it, it means that you re not where you should be, quite honestly.
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To clarify, if you don t have a loss of passion, it means you re not where you should be?
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Or if you don t have passion, it means you re not where you should be?
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If you don t have a loss of passion, it means that you are not where you should be at a certain point in your evolution en route to your goal.
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What I mean by that is, is that division one of the champion blueprint that has five steps is all about preparation.
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And the kind of champion s golden rule is do the homework and the test is easy.
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And if you don t do the homework and you re not prepared to start pursuing your goal, boots on the ground, then don t start.
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So you gotta go through those five steps to vet the fact that you actually have the capacity to be able to achieve your champion goal on the first try.
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And if you haven t vetted that, don t start.
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But once you push the ignition button, where you begin step six, which is the performance side of the blueprint, this is where you re going live ammo, boots on the ground for the very first time, like the doors to the business are now open.
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What you bring to that starting point is you bring enthusiasm, you bring team collaboration and unity, you bring abundant energy, because you haven t consumed any of that yet.
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And your mind is on one thing, which is the goal.
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But the mind doesn t see that there s 10,000 hours, like in Malcolm Gladwell s parlance, to be able to create the capacity to be able to achieve the goal that you ve set for yourself.
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The mind doesn t see that.
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So what happens is that you start with this ambitious honeymoon where everybody s high-fiving each other,
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They re using up resources too quick.
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They re not paying attention to the gas drain in the system.
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The resources are being depleted.
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And then all of a sudden, they get up one day and they go, holy crap, you know what?
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I don t have the same motivation for this.
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This isn t what I thought it was going to be.
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This is getting kind of hard.
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what they think mistakenly, because this is the way human nature, not the champion s nature, mind you, but the human nature would say, uh-oh, now I don t have the passion anymore, so I guess this wasn t the right marriage.
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Maybe I should bail while I still have some resources left.
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This is really common.
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And here s the caveat here.
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It s like every honeymoon is meant to dissipate, because that s when you have perhaps your finest moment, where you re now in a state of what s called reality, where you re perhaps for the first time actually looking at what it s really gonna take to get to where you wanna go.
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And it s a very necessary place to be because at that point, then you can recalibrate and you can remobilize team better yet, you told the team that the honeymoon was gonna be over in advance so when it showed up, they didn t talk themselves out of it.
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How about that for a leadership play?
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And so then you tell everybody, okay, it s here everybody, honeymoon s over.
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Now we re gonna have our conversation about reality.
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So we know what to do, right?
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Because we already talked about it, so let s get back to work and let s get going towards a goal.
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What do you say?
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And so, really, achievement is a myth.
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There are myths about everything.
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It s like the universe will fill in the gaps, let s just get started.
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Well, not really.
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The universe honors those people that are really ready.
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No responsible icon in any discipline ever pushes the ignition button with the hope through being unprepared that the universe will jump in and solve the problem.
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You know, I m a big fan of the universe and you better rely on it because it s one of your most important assets.
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But let s make sure that we start responsibly.
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Another classic myth is, okay, look, honey, I promise that when I get to the top and I reach my goal, everything s gonna change.
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And at that time, I ll also not only be a better partner, but I m also gonna get back to my health practices that I ve neglected for the last five or 10 years.
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I promise I m gonna get back to that.
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And I look at the number of people that have believed that myth, and just at the time where they achieve their goal or finally start to get the achievement model worked out, and they re in flow, they have a catastrophic relationship failure because of deferred maintenance.
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Or worse yet, they die of a heart attack or a stroke or something along the lines because of health management.
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So it s like there are myths that our human nature loves to adhere and glue itself to that have never proven themselves to ever deliver on the promise.
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And what I can tell you is that
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The champions know something that most don t.
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And that s myth from reality.
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And they know how to play the game through the contrarian view and the orthodox methods that the champions have already figured out that allow them to get to the top and stay there.
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It s like, do we really think that U2 putting out a platinum album every September is an accident?
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Of course not.
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They understand how to get it done.
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They ve learned the method.
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They trust it and they re great representatives of it.
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But how many people actually ever get there?
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We ve all heard the stories about talent.
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Oh gosh, you re so talented, and everybody s already rewriting the record books, but yet it never pans out.
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Why is that?
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It s because they don t know how to win.
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Most people don t know how to win.
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It s quite simple.
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They don t know the process.
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It s not about trying harder.
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It s not about a more detailed plan.
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It s not about closing the gap by wanting it bad enough, because certainly you need that.
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But without a map that shows you the true path, without knowing where you are on the path itself, not knowing the hidden dangers of where
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you are, not having the ability to disarm the dangers, and not knowing what s coming because you don t have a treasure map.
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For example, I could give you a treasure map, Jordan.
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And I could say, okay, Jordan, here s a treasure map.
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And right here on this axis is where the treasure is buried.
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And over here, this is where the predators are.
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So here s your map.
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Good luck with it.
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So what s missing?
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Yeah, me.
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It s you, you don t know where you are.
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So it s like, if you don t know where you are on the map, you don t know whether the next step is towards the cliff or whether it s towards the tree, you have no idea.
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And that s the way most people s lives are.
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They guess, and at the end of the day or the end of the week, they re relieved because they got through another day.
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They re not quite sure where they are, there s no more clarity, but they know that they put eight hours into movement that s heading somewhere.
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And sort of my beef is, is that everybody s on a path and they know it.
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but the path that they re on may not take them to where they wanna go because nobody s been able to vet the thinking and the process behind the decision making that will tell you exactly where the path is gonna end up.
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You see that in our country right now.
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There is some decisions being made that didn t work in Egypt and they re not gonna work now.
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Why?
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Because it s never worked.
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So it s like,
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I think it s time that we kind of get real about what the process is so that we can be manifestors of our most lofty goals to live a life of passion, purpose, and productivity.
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I would also say prosperity, we should throw that in there as well, but you can t just make it up.
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There s got to be a vessel that holds your dream sacred to usher it through life s minefield to manifestation.
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And that s what my life and that s what my work is all about because I ve actually cracked the code on that with my champion blueprint.
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Dr. Jeff Spencer, thank you so much.
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Champions Blueprint, we ll link up in the show notes.
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Thanks again so much for your time and for your expertise and for your authenticity here today.
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Well, again, thank you for the forum and your gracious hosting of this to be able to let me share a part of what my life has been so far.
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So thanks again, Jordan, and all I can say is everybody, there s always room at the top for the best and always a goal for the gold.
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Thanks.
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Thanks.
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See you, everybody.
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Talk to you soon.
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Bye-bye.
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There was a lot there.
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I did not expect to go down some of those roads, Jason.
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Absolutely not.
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That was a fantastic episode.
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Yeah.
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I was a little skeptical at first because I was like, ah, performance coach, you know, it s a sports thing.
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I don t know if I m into it.
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And then I just noticed, oh, 72 Olympics.
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What do I know about that?
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And then just boom, it came back as relevant, which I think is powerful.
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And it was a powerful story.
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I mean, he really, it really affected him deeply.
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Yeah, and you can see the event going backwards and helping shape who he was today, and I think that is probably in part why he s so big on legacy.
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If you enjoyed this one, don t forget to thank Dr. Jeff Spencer on Twitter.
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We ll have that linked in the show notes, as well as the Champions Blueprint that we mentioned on the show.
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You can tap the album art in most mobile podcast players to see the cheat sheet for this episode, and we link directly to the show notes right on your phone.
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I also post tons of stuff on Twitter that never makes it to the show.
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Articles, insights, and other stuff, I m at theartofcharm on Twitter.
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You can also find all of our amazing sponsors in the show notes, or go to theartofcharm.com slash advertisers.
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Boot camp details also at bootcamp.theartofcharm.com.
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Remember, subscribe in iTunes, give us a nice review, we will, of course, love you forever.
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When you write us a review, not only does it make us feel proud, but it helps keep us up in the ranks so other people who can use this information can find the show more easily to get the credible advice that they need.
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It s also the best way to support the show, other than purchasing products and training from us, and of course, supporting our sponsors as well.
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This episode of the Art of Charm podcast was produced by Jason DeFilippo.
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Jason Sanderson is our audio engineer and editor.
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Show notes on the website are by Robert Fogerty.
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I m your host, Jordan Harbinger.
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Go ahead, tell your friends, because the greatest compliment you can give us is a referral to someone else, either in person or shared on the web.
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Now have a great week, and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to the Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and more at theartofcharmpodcast.com.