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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast, podcast history.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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Brian Neal here.
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We welcome you every week.
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We welcome you.
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We release every Monday.
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If you are new to the family, make sure you go to advancedsellingpodcast.com and up somewhere at the very top, there s a badge there for new listeners and you can listen to some of the background of the show.
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And I think there might be an interview from 75 years ago with
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Brian and I that still holds true today.
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But if you re a new listener, welcome.
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If you re an old listener, we welcome you back.
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You ve grown up with us.
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You ve grayed with us.
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Grayed with us.
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And by gray, I mean hair and things.
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Yeah, good transition there.
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But we ve been doing this a long time.
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It s been really, really awesome.
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Quick segue into that gray and how this all comes together.
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So I was telling Bill before the show, you start to get a little older.
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And this is kind of a stereotypical thing.
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Especially, I think, old men get to be kind of old man-ish.
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We do old man things, you know?
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I can t find her phone.
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We got her phone backwards.
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Like, one of my best friends from high school, we have a text trail that goes, we re all 54, 53.
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He sent a video.
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He s on a business trip in Vietnam.
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He sent a video.
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But the, but he had the camera the wrong way.
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So all the video is, is the, basically the inside of his palm.
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Cause he s holding his phone up.
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It s like, it s such an old man thing to do.
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And you should see the video.
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So he s getting lambasted by all of us in the tape, like send another one of those inspirational videos, man.
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That was really awesome.
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This time, get the inside of your ear, hold the phone up to your ear, which is awesome.
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Go into a country that s even more
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Beautiful in Vietnam.
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Seriously.
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So we can see the palm.
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So funny.
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So just a little thing.
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So walking in this morning, I ve never noticed this.
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So it s cold here in the Midwest.
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It s freezing.
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It s snowing.
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Do you get annoyed by the sound that your shoes make when you walk on really, really thin snow on a parking lot?
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Crunchy, yeah.
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It s crunchy.
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110 degrees.
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And I m like, totally.
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I m walking in this morning.
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I m like, god, I hate this sound.
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and I m getting chills, not from the cold, from the noise.
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I ve got this auditory tick thing that I can t do, so I m not sure how to solve for that.
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If I just have someone carry me in from my car, I could do that, I suppose.
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I m much older than you, much older, and I ve never had, I never get annoyed by things like that.
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I get annoyed by other things.
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People get annoyed by me more.
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That s just a thing.
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My daughter Kelly, who you know, is just fanatical about flip-flops.
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Oh, man.
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Oh, man.
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The whole flip-flop.
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Yeah, the sound, the sound.
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And people who chew gum and crack it, and they have little bubbles in it.
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I m married to one of those.
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That s an indicator to stay away from my wife.
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Not in a bad way.
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It s a focus thing.
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When she pops her gum, when she ll be working around the house or working here in the office, and when the gum is popping, I told our team, gum s popping, stay away.
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She s in a zone, let her go, right?
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It s seriously a real thing, so.
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Well, one of those things to come down the road.
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All right, topic today.
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You want me to tee it up?
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Yeah, go.
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So Inspire.
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So I saw one of Bill s LinkedIn lives, which if you re not watching those, you should.
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I think of recording just more of the title of it, I thought was really great.
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And so I said, this would be a good podcast topic to just expand on a little bit.
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And it is the idea of the first call and how to get really good at the first call, because it s really, really, really important that you re really, really, really good at first time
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sales opportunities, first time you meet people, first calls.
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So we thought we d kick this around a little bit, build it a LinkedIn Live about it, what I thought was really good.
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Then I ve got a couple little tidbits I m going to add to that.
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But this is all about for you getting ready as the listener to say, have I really thought about this?
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How good am I?
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And have I practiced?
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Have I crafted?
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Have I modified?
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Or am I just doing the same thing I ve been doing forever?
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Or do I just wing it somewhere along the line?
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No matter where you are, you need to do some work on it.
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Yeah, the thing that I find interesting is that we talked about leverage here a couple of weeks ago, I think, and how we want to get all we can out of everything that we do, maximize our time, maximize our effort.
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And the first call is kind of the beginning of a relationship, presumably.
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And it s really important that you have some intention behind it so you get all you can out of it.
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And I know it s good for the prospect too, but let s just talk selfishly here for a sec, is when you make a first call and you re going to do, let s say this year you ll do 50 of those.
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I don t know, one a week, maybe more, maybe less.
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But that s a lot.
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And that s a lot of time that you put in it.
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And plus, it takes a lot of work to get to those first calls, whether it s ads, or whether it s content, or whether it s cold calling, or whether it s people on your website that schedule a call.
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There s a lot of work that goes into it.
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Don t F it up.
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I mean, this is really high leverage time.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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I never thought about the work put in to get there.
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That s so hard.
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So when you re there, you better be really damn good at it when you get there.
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Right?
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I mean, that s the whole point.
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So yeah, so you want to kick us off with a couple or maybe one little piece of advice around how to be a really great, great producer of the first call?
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Yeah, I ll speak just in terms of how to do what we re about to tell you.
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So we re going to give you some bits, some tactics, tips, whatever.
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And I think it s important you write these down and keep these somewhere
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where you can refer to prior to a first call.
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And I know that sounds cheesy.
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But this is a checklist.
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This is a first call checklist that we re going to come up with today.
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And I think if you put it in a Google Doc or even on your phone somewhere, and then you have a first call, this can be your framework for an agenda or a framework, at least, to remind you of what s important.
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So that would be my first tip is take some notes here today.
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The first tip, I would say, is get your mind right.
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And this is not a tip as much as it is just a way of thinking.
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What is the purpose of the first call?
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Well, we used to say, well, the purpose of the first call is to get to the second call.
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OK, well, that seems like a little shallowness working in a little old school.
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Yeah, a little old school.
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I m guilty of that.
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But the purpose of the first call to me is just to establish some type of relationship of rapport, serve people, not to sell and to pitch, to understand if there s really a second call that s even needed, because there may not be.
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And so I think if you get your mind wrapped around the right concept here about, I m here to serve.
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I m here to create the environment where we can develop just the beginnings of a, quote, relationship, unquote.
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We re not developing the whole thing.
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We re just getting acquainted.
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We re starting to get to know each other.
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I think then it takes all the pressure off.
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And so you re not thinking, well, if he says this, I say that.
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You re like, get out of that crap.
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I mean, just be intentional, but be organic with it, too.
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Yes.
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It s funny watching people, especially now that we re remote selling, we re in internal.
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It s interesting watching people go from Zoom to Zoom to Zoom or teams to teams to teams with no breaks.
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There s no space to get right in your head if you re going from one to the other to the other.
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And look at your schedule.
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I guarantee if you re an out and about face-to-face salesperson, this is about you listening to the radio and sports radio or your comedy show.
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And then you get your stuff together and you run in.
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Or if you re Zoom to Zoom to Zoom, you re not getting yourself any space to do what Bill s talking about.
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You ve got to bake buffers in to get your head right, just to get square.
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And that intention thing, for me, is the first thing.
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People are like, that whole goal is to get to the second call is wrong.
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I just don t believe that.
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I think the goal is to explore together to see if we should do a second call or not.
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And it s a two-person vote.
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It s you and the buyer.
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It s got to be unanimous.
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It has to be unanimous.
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It has to be, right?
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And it s just fun.
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I ve got a friend who s an actress named Winnie Braun, who is, I think her thing s called Actors in Spirit or something.
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She does coaching for actors.
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And she s an ongoing actress, like working actress on a Netflix series for like six years.
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Wow.
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But she coaches other actors and actresses.
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And one of the things she talks about when you go in for an audition is, you re an actor, so go play.
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You just have some fun.
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Because the actors put so much pressure on themselves to nail it, to get the part.
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that they tighten up, and then they don t get it.
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So just have some fun.
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I think the same thing applies for the first call.
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It should just be a great, fun, exploratory thing with no pressure at all on either side.
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It s just such an enjoyable thing to do, to learn about a new business, a new culture, hear some things, get to share stuff about what you do is a really, really enjoyable, fun thing, I think.
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I totally agree.
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And I think sales managers and leaders put some undue pressure on people to, and then we don t think of the fun.
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We think, you know, I always say that it s, this is who knows what s going to happen here.
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Maybe they ll throw me out of their office, or maybe this is the beginning of a $40 million relationship or just a high level.
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Yeah.
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That s the beauty of why we re here on the planet, is just to see what tomorrow brings.
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Absolutely.
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If we have that curiosity, I think that s good.
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I love that.
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I love that.
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That s great.
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Is it my turn?
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Yeah, your turn.
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OK.
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I think the whole idea of
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The mission here is to create the environment for the truth to be exchanged on both parts, and the environment is up to you to create.
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We can t let the prospect create that.
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What I mean by the environment is just some sort of
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upfront discussion about, hey, here s what I thought would make sense today.
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I thought it would be useful if I shared a little bit of our story.
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I d love to hear how you got here.
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I d like to ask you some questions about A, B, and C. I ll share a little bit of how I work.
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And then at the end, we can decide if there s a logical way to continue or proceed.
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So whatever that sounds like for you, that s how those are the words that I would recommend you use or some version of that.
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But it needs to create an environment where the prospect is not on guard.
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They re not, they don t have their, you know, their
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They re shield rays because they know you re coming in for the kill.
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It s just a gentle reminder for both people that, hey, we re just here to talk.
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I ll ask you some questions.
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You ask me some questions.
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Let s decide at the end then.
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And there s no hurry.
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And if we decide there s no reason to talk again, that s great too.
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It just really sets the stage.
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It s really good.
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Love it.
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Love it.
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Love it.
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I m going to go a little tactical on my deal and I m going to roll in something Bill just did there.
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I m going to make it an item here is I m a firm believer that every first call needs to have an agenda.
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as part of the process.
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And I know salespeople are like, I don t like to do agendas.
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I just have a gut feel.
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Or I got my own agenda.
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I don t give it to them, but I m working my own agenda over here.
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Just let go.
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Just stop.
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Just put an agenda together.
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It s just so silly.
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And it s so easy.
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It s so easy to do.
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Everyone s lazy.
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So if you as the salesperson put the agenda together on behalf of the customer, they are going to be thankful because they don t have to do it.
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And so you just say, I put a little five point agenda to keep us on task.
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Feel free to add or modify anything.
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And I look forward to seeing you on Tuesday.
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Every person you talk to is going to go, looks good to me.
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Sounds good.
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Thanks for putting it together.
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There it is.
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So now you have some input in the process.
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Now I m going to lop off.
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So what s in the agenda?
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I just want to put two things here for you.
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And I ve got a boatload of samples of agendas.
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I ve got an agenda builder tool that you can get a hold of if you email me or put it in the show notes.
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We ll do something, Bill, for that.
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I ll give people my little agenda builder tool, or the sample agendas, rather.
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But the two things that are musts, one is what Bill just said, which I just say is context setting.
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That s got to be the first line of the agenda.
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And all you got to do is put the word context.
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Just put the word context.
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And it ll just come right out.
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You ll say, I just like to start with a little context at the stage.
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You do exactly what Bill just said.
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That s agenda point number one.
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However many agenda points you have, four, five, six, doesn t matter.
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The last agenda item says these words.
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I m not a script guy, but I m telling you, this will make it so easy.
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The last agenda item says, get calendars out.
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Get calendars out.
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Because if you end every meeting with an action, which is get calendars out, not next steps.
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Everybody puts next steps.
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Next steps is too vague.
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Get calendars out to an action.
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Like we re going to get our calendars out.
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That just eases you into setting the next date, if you re going to have it.
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Obviously, if it s a no thanks, then the calendars go away.
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You don t have to do that last step.
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That s easy.
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But if you re going to have another step, you get your calendars out at the end of the meeting.
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That s the agenda item.
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It takes all the pressure off of you feeling weird, too, to go, well, I d like to set the next meeting, Bill.
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If it s in the agenda, you ve already sent it ahead of time, then it s easy.
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I m telling you.
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Yeah, that s good.
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Contact and get calendars out.
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Have an agenda.
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So have an agenda, send it.
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Send it.
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Oh, yeah, good.
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And if there s any conversation you ve had with your potential customer before this, well, put it in the agenda.
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If they really have a hankering to know the color scheme of the 4950XLR, OK, put that in there.
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We re going to talk about that.
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Yeah.
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But you also get to pick what your agenda is.
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Fantastic.
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Here s number five.
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I think you need to have a story.
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Have a story that you can tell, but don t force it into the conversation.
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So you re on the call, and Zoom call, or whatever, and you do the upfront context setting, the upfront agreement, and prospect says, look, let me tell you why we re here.
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We are terrible at x, y, and z. And we know you re good at that.
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And we brought you in here because we want some help.
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We re in big pain.
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We have a $20 million.
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If they just dump, then I may not tell a story.
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I may back off the story because I m not sure it s needed.
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But if they re not familiar with you, then I would have a story in the chamber, loaded, ready to go.
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It could be the company s story, it could be your personal story, it could be the story of a customer.
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But you know, I ve said this before, and I ll
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like an old record broken record.
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I guess that s what old man broken record used to be.
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All right.
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Yeah.
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It s a 33 and a half.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Remember the warped ones when it would leave it, you get so upset, you buy a record, you know, in high school, you leave in your car to come back.
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It s warped like, ah,
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But a lot of times, it didn t matter if it was a good, and then you d put a little stone or something on the wall.
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Yeah, so it would rise and jump.
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That s funny.
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Sidebar.
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That s funny.
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um so we re everybody s talking about storytelling today everybody s talking about it but yet we don t do it very often and i think if sometimes it feels like it s forced and it s like well i don t want to tell a story of you know getting cut in eighth grade basketball that doesn t make sense here of course not it doesn t but there s some story that you could tell as part of this
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getting help, helping them get to know you that spoke to you and spoke to the company.
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It could be a simple story about, you know, um, our company went through a little, um, reorganization about two years ago.
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And we realized that we were not very good at this and we brought in a new, we bought a company and now we re good at this could be that, but anything that starts to add a little flavor and enrichment to this dialogue is good.
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And stories do that better than anything else.
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So get good at storytelling and have, have a couple that,
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that are ready, at the ready, in case the situation presents.
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I love the at the ready.
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You have to have these things cataloged, these stories.
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So I m going to go, again, I m doing the bridge thing today, Bill.
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I m taking your thing, giving an idea, and bringing it back to your thing.
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So here s my next bit of advice is you need to do some research on the company that you re going to talk to.
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Now, what most people do is they ll go, well, Bill, I know that you re a publicly traded company and your stock finished last week at $48.62.
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It s a little off of expectations.
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And you re talking to the plant manager in Warsaw, Indiana.
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It s like, OK.
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That s to don t go, don t do that research.
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Well, yeah, I know you were founded in 1830.
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Don t do, do individualized research as best you can on the person you re going to talk to and their role and then other roles like that.
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Here s the full circle back.
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So that once you do this research, you have this kind of persona person.
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If I m talking to bill, I do, yeah, the demographic stuff.
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I know he went to DePaul, he played basketball and this is in rapport stuff.
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And I know he s got a coaching company.
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So once he does that, I can start to think of a business story that I can roll into my conversation that mirrors his.
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So if I m talking to a $50 million business that s in the construction industry, let s say a paving company,
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Well, I ve got another client who s a little bigger than that.
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But when I started with them, they were about that size that does fire protection.
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They re not the same, but they re similar.
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And when you tell that similar story, they can go into that story more easily.
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But you have to think about that.
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You have to do that on purpose.
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I can t tell the paving company a story about a dental supply company that I work with.
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I can, but it s like, because what that invites then is like, well, dental business is way different, Bill.
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This is construction.
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But if I tell a construction story,
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Or if I m calling on a dental group and then I m talking to a medical device, then I mirror those stories together.
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So do some research and then take the story that Bill s talking about and make sure you have a story that relates to them as close as you can.
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You may not be able to get it perfect, but get it close.
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I love it.
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Yeah, I love it.
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That s that s so good.
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You know, I had a call the other day.
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I might have mentioned this.
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I don t know.
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And I went to we use Claude AI.
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It s an artificial intelligence like GPT.
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And I put in this gentleman s name and said, please write a 500 word profile on his background, his experience, his initiatives, and his name.
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And he was president of this company.
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Jonathan s first initiatives this year are this, that, and the other.
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I was like, oh, wow.
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OK.
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Nice.
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Now, I didn t use any of that in the conversation.
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I did tell him at the end, we had pretty good rapport.
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And I said, hey, I went out and did this.
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He goes, really?
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What did it say?
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And I sent it to him.
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He goes, I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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I sent it to you.
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But it didn t, it didn t matter.
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It was more just, okay, I got kind of a sense of who this dude is and what, what he s after and his background.
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And this, this guy s a player and he s done great things.
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It, it wasn t, it wasn t, it wasn t, it wasn t, it wasn t, it wasn t, it wasn t, it wasn t.
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It wasn t a matter of making me nervous.
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It was just I felt like I knew him a little bit better.
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And so even if you don t use it and say, hey, I noticed you went to Yale and graduated, don t do that.
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I mean, that s on LinkedIn.
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That s sort of 70s, 80s stuff.
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Yes, yes.
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Just use it for your own benefit to get comfortable that this guy is playing at a high level.
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He is not going to be interested in how many hours each of the training sessions are.
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He s more interested in what are the results.
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And how are we going to help him solve these problems?
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Even though I found that those initiatives were not really perfect, but it didn t matter.
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That s great.
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You can use AI to get profiles of people you re going to be calling on.
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The plant manager in Warsaw, I don t know if they would have the same
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I don t know if it could pull a 500 word, it would probably just be making up stuff like it did with this guy.
SPEAKER_00
You never know.
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It pulls news from there.
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Maybe they had a layoff, or maybe they had a construction expansion, or an accident, or who knows.
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To your point, it just informs you so you feel more comfortable that you re knowledgeable about who you re talking to and what s going on in their world.
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So those are the things that we would put in.
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And we did things like agenda, have an agenda, have a place in your files or folders that you can keep this, start with the upfront contacts, upfront agreement, have the questions we didn t talk about.
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There are probably some questions that you ll need to have answered.
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And so you would put those in there, maybe not in the agenda, but you would have it in your...
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a folder, get out your calendar.
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The last point of your agenda is calendars.
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Calendars, anyone?
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Yep.
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Get your calendars out.
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Let me see yours.
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I ll show you mine.
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That s a thing for sure.
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And then a story to start with, and of course, the mindset.
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So those are six or seven things that I think if you keep with you for a first call, it comes back.
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It comes back quick.
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But it also gets lost quick.
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So if you go six calls and you don t refer to this, you re going to start to, it s going to get a little fuzzy.
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A hundred percent.
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And this will keep it.
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You do what Bill and I just talked to you about, talk to you, talk to you in this episode and you will stay, it will stay fresh for you.
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You want it to stay fresh for that energy.
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And by all means, just have fun with these first calls.
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Just have some fun with them and you ll see your results will be way better.
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All right.
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All right.
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See you next time.
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Bye.
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Bye.