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This is the art of charm.
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Learn everything you need to know to crush it in business, love, and life.
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Welcome to the Art of Charm, I m Jordan Harbinger.
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The Art of Charm brings together the best thought leaders, teachers, and exceptional individuals to teach you how to be a top performer in life, love, and at work.
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Imagine having a mix of experienced mentors teaching you their expertise, packing decades of research, testing, and tough lessons into a curriculum.
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We may not have all the answers, but we definitely have all the questions.
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Make sure to stay up to date with the Art of Charm and get some great stuff that we don t share on the show by signing up at theartofcharm.com.
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That s where we ll email you our Fundamentals Toolkit covering topics like body language and nonverbal communication, persuasion, business networking, public speaking, negotiation, and a whole lot more.
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I m also doing regular videos with drills and exercises to help you move forward every single week.
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Also, we ve got our live programs running every week in LA.
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We ve got guys from all over the world, so no excuses.
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We re sold out a few months in advance.
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You can always email me and find out when.
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Jordan at theartofcharm.com.
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Get some info from us now so you can plan ahead.
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I also want to encourage you to join us in our social capital challenge.
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at theartofcharm.com slash challenge, or you can text charmed to 33444.
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It s all about improving your social capital, getting people to create a personal and professional relationship with you.
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It s really gonna be fun, it s really gonna be challenging in a good way, and we re doing some giveaways as well.
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It will make you a better networker and connector.
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That s theartofcharm.com slash challenge, or text charmed to 33444.
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Today we re talking with Rob Scott.
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He had a crazy upbringing.
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Let s just say he was on a downward spiral, and we ll let you go from there.
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We talk about lenses and how you view your life and how those can be changed.
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Thoughts and beliefs, how they become lenses and they alter what you see.
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Seeing opinions as truths, getting outside your own awareness.
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I know that sounds very woo, but we re gonna debunk a little bit of that.
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something called comparing down and how that s a useful tool for survival.
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All this and more on this episode of AOC with Rob Scott.
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Tell us what you do in one sentence.
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I help people break through.
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I m a mindset coach.
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Break through what, though?
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So, essentially, human beings are kind of built to be diluted at the level of consciousness that we re living at now, and there s a process that I help people do to get through that so that they can get out of their limiting beliefs, their self-sabotage, their negative inner talk.
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Okay.
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Is this something that plagues high performers, low performers?
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Is this something that plagues all humanity?
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Where do we start with this?
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Have you seen this in everyone?
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Yeah, I think it s a quality of human beings that is almost like a protection mechanism, and it has a lot to do with how our subconscious reacts to the pains in our life.
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You know, the thing that was embarrassing when we were in eighth grade, that time we got, you know, beat up by the bully, the time somebody called us fat.
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Those types of things end up making meanings in our mind that get fired and triggered in a way that s no longer useful.
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What I help people do is clear that stuff out.
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I have a teaching on lenses that is a really good metaphor to kind of understand how this stuff occurs for us.
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And once you get past that, you no longer have to carry the negative self-talk, the limiting beliefs, all the stuff.
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It really just falls away.
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And it s like people who go and sit on a meditation cushion for 10 years.
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You get that kind of clarity through this process that I take people through.
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And what does the process look like?
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So if you consider a lens, a regular lens, something that you wear in glasses or a contact lens or for people that don t wear corrective stuff, a microscope or a telescope would have a lens in it.
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The function of a lens is to alter what you see.
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It s built to literally change what you see.
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It might make it closer up, it might make it blurry, it might clear things, it might be a useful lens, like the glasses I m wearing, but it alters what you see.
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The second kind of feature about a lens that most people don t consider or think about is that they re built to be invisible.
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meaning they re literally built to be looked through and not looked at.
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So if I have raindrops on my glasses or scratches, they no longer function.
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They no longer kind of alter what I see.
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So our thoughts and our beliefs are lenses that we look through the world at.
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And as we re looking through the world through these lenses, like good lenses, they re built to be invisible.
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So the beliefs that I carry about other people, about myself, about the world,
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those end up altering kind of how I see.
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And so, you know, imagine a Republican who s diehard and he s just sure that he s right in the way that he sees, and he almost can t believe how somebody else could see it differently, right?
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It s just clear, his set of beliefs about that thing.
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And then imagine a Democrat with a very different lens, right?
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A very different way of seeing in the world.
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And what s happening there is those are both
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opinions and they re really, really okay to hold as opinions, but what happens for most humans is we don t see them as opinions, we actually see them as truth.
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And that s what the delusion is.
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And so that s fine if it s an external thing, although those are the things that lead to wars, right?
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The way different countries feel about things and our beliefs about every punch that s ever been thrown, every war that s ever been gotten into has been over a belief, right?
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It s been somebody doesn t agree with the way that I m seeing things, so we re going to fight about it.
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What happens, the most detrimental ones to the individual or to an entrepreneur or to a high performer are beliefs that we have about ourselves, right?
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The ones that creep up at night that are like, you know, this is never really going to be a success or people don t really like me or I m never really talented at this or I ll never make a lot of money.
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And we find that people have, you know, things like money limits, just negative
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Or I should call them maybe limiting or a certain area of, say, how nice a house you think you can live in.
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And these go unchecked because we don t see the lenses.
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We look right through them and they look like truth to us.
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And so what I do for people is the fundamental shift that s
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Actually, the name of my company is Fundamental Shift.
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The Fundamental Shift is a move in our awareness where we can actually get outside looking through the lenses, see the lenses that we re carrying, consider them, alter them, put in the most useful ones, and actually really see the world and ourselves very differently.
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But in a moment, what might happen there is like going into a sales call meeting or something and being really anxious and waking up to whatever s running in your head about what s creating that state of anxiety, which is, this isn t going to go well, or I always fail at this, or whatever s happening.
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And you can, in the moment, switch that over to, you know what, this is going to be fun.
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We ll see how this goes.
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I m just going to make a great connection today, and this is going to be all right.
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And the two different people that think those two different ways get very different results on the other side of the door.
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And so I optimize that kind of stuff for people so that they can have massively breakthrough results, right?
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People that are stuck in their business at a certain level can t even comprehend really when you talk to them honestly about being, you know, a multi-million dollar business or something.
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And so there s ways to optimize that so that people can have massive breakthroughs.
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And how did you learn all this stuff?
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Were you always a successful person and you worked backwards and figured it all out?
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I wish, not really.
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No, I was highly dysfunctional in all kinds of ways.
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So I grew up in a really abusive environment.
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I was sexually abused and raped for many years as a child.
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So ages like three to age eight.
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And that led to me being addicted to drugs and alcohol at an obscenely early age.
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really unable to emotionally connect or feel safety and, you know, had intimacy challenges, all that kind of stuff.
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And I was lucky to be smart enough to get through school without really showing up for school that much.
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But when I got to my late teens and early 20s, I mean, I was heavily addicted to really, really big stuff.
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I was in and out of institutions and rehabs and halfway houses.
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I was homeless for a long period of time.
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And it was a very, very
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difficult road for me really through almost like the first three decades of my life.
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I mean, all the way through my 20s was a really tough time.
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What ended up happening was I had this huge experience of kind of waking up to the fact that I was the one carrying the problem.
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Like nobody was hitting me anymore.
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Nobody was
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doing bad things to me anymore.
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And I was showing up in situations and carrying this story of like, look how tough I am, look what I ve been through, you know, look at what a victim I am, nothing goes right for me.
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And I really woke up, the awareness in me kind of popped and shifted, so that I became very aware of how I was talking to myself.
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And that never left me, it really, it really stayed.
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But what happened from that shift was, after that, I was able to very rapidly fix the homeless problem and become
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you know, a temp in a company.
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And then very quickly, I started to grow through that company really, really well, because I knew my own mind, and I knew how to coach other people and get great results out of teams and people that ended up working for me.
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While I was doing that growth in the company, I ended up getting really aggressive cancer.
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So I ended up getting, you know, physically sick, really badly for a while, almost lost my job, because I had to be out on short term disability for a really long period of time.
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Once that passed,
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I had now understood and had personal experience with being really emotionally sick, really
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mentally sick, really addicted, and really physically sick, right?
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And I was on the other side of it.
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And then once I got back after the cancer, I really just took off.
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And within the next couple of years, I was vice president of technology at a corporation in Philadelphia, running the tech group, you know, with no credentials.
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That was all based on merit.
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It was all based on what I was able to do and how I was able to kind of crawl up the chain.
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And then in
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In 2005, I ended up starting a podcast where I was sharing these ideas on how do we evolve consciousness?
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What is meditation?
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What is hypnosis?
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What is self-talk?
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What s happening with that?
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Through that podcast at that time, I ended up with thousands of listeners and people all over the world started asking me for coaching.
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And so for the last 10 years, I ended up leaving that corporate position to help other people get through this stuff and evolve things for entrepreneurs and evolve things for people that want to invest in themselves and grow.
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I call my office the lab.
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I ve been in the lab for a decade, and I was working on this long before, but I ve really been doing it professionally and full-time for a decade or so now.
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And I love it.
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I ve gotten to work with a ton of great people, and it s the most fulfilling work I do.
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So the fact that you re even still alive after that kind of proves that you re on to something.
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100 percent.
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Yeah.
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There were tons of people around me that died.
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Gunfights.
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I ve had two of my best friends commit suicide.
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One told me about it right before he did it.
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I thought I talked him out of it and he left my house and went.
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was dead within a couple hours.
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I ve had really tough stuff go on.
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I ve, you know, done major drug deals and, you know, been massively addicted and been running away from people that I owed tons of money to and, you know, all kinds of stuff with different halfway houses and all kinds of that really low-level consciousness.
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stuff because I was so hurting, honestly.
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I mean, I was just in so much pain inside.
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I felt worthless and, you know, my self-esteem and my self-worth was non-existent.
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And so there was a whole lot of illusion and bravado to be created just to continue on and just to survive.
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So take us from homeless to lenses.
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Sure.
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You know, step one of lenses is this form of awareness, right?
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It s realizing what lenses implies is that what you think is truth may not be truth.
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So most of us are just quite sure that what we re seeing is really happening, quite sure that what we re thinking is right.
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If you talk to anybody, how they see it is probably how everybody else should see it.
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And the reality is that the move, the ninja move, is to break up with trusting that.
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And because our lenses are kind of invisible to us, it s often hard to see it up top, but where you can see it is that it manifests in these emotions in the body.
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So any time a negative emotion is coming up or something that s bumming you out,
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It s a great time to kind of go up and edit, like, how am I seeing this?
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Like, what s going on?
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How can I reframe this?
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How can I look at this differently?
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And so how I got to that was through daily suffering and a real kind of connection or a desire to figure out
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you know, what is this thing that we re doing?
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I was always somebody who, you know, everybody was like sitting around the water cooler talking about desperate housewives.
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And I was like mystified by the fact that I m kind of pink and I ve got 10 fingers, like, I don t get why we re here, right?
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Like, what s this about?
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And so I ve been driven to figure stuff out, like even through all my dysfunction, especially through my dysfunction.
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And it was like, how can I feel better?
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I mean, all of the drug stuff,
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was self-management, you know?
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It was that I felt so badly I wanted to feel better.
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And that s a very natural, very consistent human thing, right?
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It s what we re all doing.
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We re all trying to, through the things that we watch and the way we spend our time and how much sugar we eat and how much coffee and how much drugs and alcohol, whatever, that s all to manage our state, right?
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To feel better.
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And so I was constantly working, almost like an Eastern Cohen.
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You ever heard of a Cohen?
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Like a Zen Cohen?
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Yeah, it s like an unanswerable question, right?
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If a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound?
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Exactly.
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Or, you know, the famous one is, like, what s the sound of one hand clapping, right?
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That whole unanswerable thing.
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Well, I was kind of grooving on, like, what s the purpose to this?
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Like, why are we here?
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I was hurting so bad that I really wanted to, like, peel back the curtain and talk to whoever kind of put me here because I didn t ask to be here.
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The world was so difficult and it had been so hard.
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I was like, come on, like, what s the point?
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And so that being my lens,
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I saw pain everywhere, right?
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Like I saw conflict everywhere.
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That s what kind of stood out for me.
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And that s what popped my mind.
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It was like I was constantly working on that.
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And I was the guy who was literally like,
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you know, smoking crack and then reading, you know, Nietzsche and doing this stuff.
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And a lot of my, my homelessness wasn t that I like couldn t figure out money.
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It was probably closer to a delusion of like, I want to live outside society.
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Like, I feel so unconnected to other people that like, I wish I could live on a boat and grow my own food and catch fish and literally not have to deal with anybody ever.
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Right?
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Because I was that kind of broken.
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And so through drug addiction and other stuff, you sort of creep away from society more and more and more.
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And it s like, well, you know, fuck that job.
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I don t want to show up for that.
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And you know, I m not worried about tomorrow.
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I ll figure that out.
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All I care about is how do I feel better now?
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Because that feels shitty and I don t want to go over there and I m not going to take that from that guy, etc.
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So, you know, you end up in this place where it s way far off, but I was always like searching.
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I was always like, what are we doing here?
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How do we optimize this?
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And when my brain popped, it was like I felt this deep connection to oneness that s profound and really has never left me.
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I mean, it s just, it reordered how I thought about things.
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I saw kind of the illusion of separateness and not to get weird and woo woo, but like, this is a tangible thing that I could speak into.
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I saw that like, we re all fighting each other.
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And there s nobody else here to fight.
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And if we all just decided we could really just choose to get along, there s reasons why we re not choosing that.
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There s fears and mindsets and, you know, basically worldviews that are keeping us from a much more sustainable, happy, more evolved planet.
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And in that, I had this huge state evolution.
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I had much more control over my own emotions.
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I had much more clearer thinking.
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It was almost like I deframed everything.
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Like I dropped all my old frames of I m a victim, I m a this, I m a that.
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And I really kind of reformed my identity into this much more optimal way of being.
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And it wasn t a mask or a fake or anything like that.
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It was like I took off all the masks.
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and really just acted much closer to what real consciousness looks like and what wisdom looks like in whatever way.
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And so that was a lot to hold.
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That happened actually when I was 19.
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There was still a lot of dysfunction after that because I had to still figure out a lot of stuff and I was still really angry.
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But the seed of that was this kind of understanding of self-awareness.
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And that self-awareness turned into like a three-step thing that I actually teach other people.
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First of all, great message, I agree with a lot of it, and this sound you hear right now, that s the sound of one hand clapping.
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Bravo.
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But how do you know where the lenses end, and you go, oh, I m self-aware.
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How do you know it s not just a lens of being self-aware that s behind the other one?
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Yeah, it s almost not about that.
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So it s not about getting it right.
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It s about usefulness.
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So I think there s this interesting distinction of like truth.
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And I talk about three things.
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I talk about truth, opinion and belief.
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Okay.
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And so if we take truth, and we really try to find truth, first off, there s
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subjective truth and there s objective truth.
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And there s all kinds of weirdness in that.
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It s like how much truth are we talking about?
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Like how much data?
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If you re gonna really describe a moment or a thing, like what perspective were you looking from?
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And did you take in all the colors and the weight of everything?
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So there s an infinite amount of truth in any moment with the amount of data that s available to us.
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So we get to the point where it s like, all right, let s just agree that there are useful truths, okay?
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And I think that makes sense.
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Of course, they re useful truths, right?
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But even subjectively, our truths are very different.
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External truths are difficult because I ll never see the way you re seeing, so I will never have the experience of what you re experiencing out there.
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Right now, it s not really like there s one world that we re both relating to.
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You and I are having very different realities in the process of this conversation.
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You re in a totally different place, you ve got a totally different past, you re having totally different feelings than I m having, and I have no access to any of those.
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So all you could do is point to some of that to me as truth, and I m just going to have to believe you, right?
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And that is where your trust comes from and all that.
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All this babble is to basically say that truth is weird.
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It s way more complex than we think.
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And if we really want to talk about truth, it s much more useful to talk about useful truths, okay?
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So just bank that for a second.
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Outside the world of truth, we start to get into this duality world of like, what do I like?
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What don t I like?
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What are my opinions about this world?
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And so there s a level of having opinions that s amazing.
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Opinions lead to culture.
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you know, groups of people start feeling very differently about things, and different kinds of music spur from that, and all these things come out, right?
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But, you know, I ll give you the most simple and silly example.
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Imagine way back in caveman time, somebody s walking on a plane, and there s a tree, and they bump a tree, and it hurts.
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And they realize, they go, you know what, bumping trees hurts, right?
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And so they form an opinion about that.
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They re like, I don t like bumping trees.
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And maybe they even go back to their tribe, and they share that.
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They say bumping trees is bad, we shouldn t do that, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
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Now as long as that s an opinion, as long as they don t think that s a truth, it hasn t become a belief yet.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s like, I hold this opinion, but I m open to other opinions, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
That s a super safe space.
2
SPEAKER_03
But imagine that person coming back and being really dogmatic about it, creating a belief out of it.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s like, bumping trees is bad.
2
SPEAKER_03
We re not going to let anybody bump trees.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s against the law, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
Like we just don t do it.
2
SPEAKER_03
And this is a protective move because bumping trees hurts, so we re just not going to do that.
2
SPEAKER_03
Well, then this tribe meets another tribe.
2
SPEAKER_03
that kicks trees for like a training thing.
2
SPEAKER_03
They think bumping trees is amazing because it builds up their shins and they do all this.
2
SPEAKER_03
Well, now these tribes, what happens?
2
SPEAKER_03
They go to war over the beliefs of this thing.
2
SPEAKER_03
So this begs the question, what is a belief?
2
SPEAKER_03
A belief is an opinion
2
SPEAKER_03
that we re erroneously treating as a truth, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
Another way said is a belief is an assuredness of meaning.
2
SPEAKER_03
Something happened and we know that it meant something, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
My boss just left his office and he looked at me a certain way and I know that means that he wants to fire me.
2
SPEAKER_03
I know it, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
And we don t really know that, but the way that we perceive it through our lens in the moment is that s truth, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
I saw it.
2
SPEAKER_03
I know what that meant because I felt a certain way and I saw him and that s that.
2
SPEAKER_03
What I m here to tell people is the big move here is to break up with those truths, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
Because the reality is, is that that s just not useful.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s just not useful to think about a relationship with your boss that way, even if it is true, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
And that thing, because I ve seen people literally manifest their own firing, because they ve panicked so much about a boss that didn t like them.
2
SPEAKER_03
And on further review, the boss never felt that way until they started acting like the boss felt that way.
2
SPEAKER_03
And so they invite this whole reality to
2
SPEAKER_03
happen.
2
SPEAKER_03
And that s not magical secret stuff.
2
SPEAKER_03
That s just truly how it can happen, as you get nervous and you start to self-sabotage and not turn the thing in because you re scared to see your boss because you don t think your boss likes you, etc.
2
SPEAKER_03
And all of a sudden, you really are obsolete and you get let go.
2
SPEAKER_03
So this idea of, sure, there s truths.
2
SPEAKER_03
We have a really hard time finding them, especially when we have lenses that we can t see, lenses that are
2
SPEAKER_03
invisible to us.
2
SPEAKER_03
Lenses like, I m not good enough, or my boss doesn t like me, or purple people are bad, or whatever those lenses are, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
Those lenses appear to us like truth, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
Our beliefs appear to us as truth, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
I m walking around, why do I believe it?
2
SPEAKER_03
And I don t mean like choosing that you re a Christian, which is like,
2
SPEAKER_03
You know, for some people, maybe an obvious choice, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
They go, that s my belief system about that.
2
SPEAKER_03
I m talking about the beliefs that feel like truth to you, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
So all of this is a big ramp up to say that the big ninja move is to start challenging what seems to be true to you when it s not useful.
2
SPEAKER_03
You start to have a very different view of things when you go, all right, maybe your boss doesn t like you, whatever, but is that a useful thought?
2
SPEAKER_03
Like, is that gonna lead you to taking good action and whatnot?
2
SPEAKER_03
If it s not, choose a different thought.
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It kind of goes back to the idea of stories versus reality, which is kind of what you said about lenses, only slightly different take on it, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
Where people think, look, my boss doesn t like me.
2
SPEAKER_02
Look at this, look at that, and it s all just based on your emotional filter, the story that you have about that, the story you re telling yourself about that.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s sort of underneath your reality.
2
SPEAKER_02
In a way, it s not just a veneer on top, it s actually the filter through which you perceive everything.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it s like the base.
2
SPEAKER_03
And I actually think a useful way to look at stories is stories are not on top of reality stories actually manifest reality to a great degree.
2
SPEAKER_03
If you re told a story across, you know, a couple of different media outlets about what s happening, you know, in the Far East or whatever, that s going to become true to you, that s going to create your reality for you.
2
SPEAKER_03
And
2
SPEAKER_03
the collective stories that we re telling everybody.
2
SPEAKER_03
I mean, I have a lot of systems and ways to help an individual change, but I m also really interested in how do we change the collective story and how we re using media today and what we re doing that way, because we re literally inventing our reality as we tell the stories that we tell.
2
SPEAKER_03
And so, the
2
SPEAKER_03
example I used before of the going into the sales meeting with a different story in your mind, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
That story or lens totally influences how your state shows up.
2
SPEAKER_03
Your state, how you feel about something, totally influences the behavior that you re capable of in the moment.
2
SPEAKER_03
And however you show up in your behavior totally influences the events, you know, or the outcomes that you get.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then it cycles from there.
2
SPEAKER_03
The outcomes that you get feed into the meaning making that happens in your head.
2
SPEAKER_03
That goes back into how are you going to feel your state in your body?
2
SPEAKER_03
What s going to happen in your behavior after that?
2
SPEAKER_03
And so that cycle, right, coaching clients come to me and they often want different things.
2
SPEAKER_03
Some people want different behaviors.
2
SPEAKER_03
They re like, you know what, I just can t habituate this one thing or I just can t do whatever.
2
SPEAKER_03
A different client will come and say, you know, I really want my business to blow up.
2
SPEAKER_03
They want a different like event in their life.
2
SPEAKER_03
or other people coming up with, like, I m just sad.
2
SPEAKER_03
I just don t feel good.
2
SPEAKER_03
And the reality is that those are singular dimensions of a cycle that s happening, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
It s like that movement of how we do.
2
SPEAKER_03
And the shortcut is to change the meaning-making machine in your head.
2
SPEAKER_03
If you can shortcut it there and change the malformed ideas that are going on in your head, you can optimize how your state ends up happening for you,
2
SPEAKER_03
how you end up feeling about things, whether you re confident or ready to go or excited, and then that optimizes what you choose to do with your behavior, makes all that stuff much more easy, and that influences your outcome, of course, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, of course.
2
SPEAKER_02
So going back to your steps to changing those limiting beliefs, tell us how that works.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
So step one is awareness, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
It s we have to begin to see how we re seeing in a sense.
2
SPEAKER_03
And so Tony Robbins has a great story about this, and I love to share it because I think it s really useful and helps people remember this.
2
SPEAKER_03
You know, imagine being in a huge room where you re watching somebody on stage.
2
SPEAKER_03
And so there s tons of other people and there s chairs everywhere.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then all of a sudden, all of the lights go out.
2
SPEAKER_03
right?
2
SPEAKER_03
Every single light.
2
SPEAKER_03
There s no light coming in through the doors.
2
SPEAKER_03
There s nothing.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s pitch black.
2
SPEAKER_03
And so everybody decides like, oh no, we got to get up and get out of here.
2
SPEAKER_03
And so you re trying to move toward the exit door to get out of the room.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s going to be very difficult.
2
SPEAKER_03
You may not hurt yourself, but you re probably going to like bump into chairs that are now moving around and bump into other people.
2
SPEAKER_03
You re going to have to go very, very slowly, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
There s like a lot of stuff in your way and you can t see what it is, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
In a move, if you flick on the lights,
2
SPEAKER_03
you immediately are aware of what you re dealing with.
2
SPEAKER_03
You can immediately kind of see the problems and navigate them much better.
2
SPEAKER_03
So step one is we need to become aware.
2
SPEAKER_03
And when I work with people, there s a process that I can take people through that s a longer thing where they can deal with a lot of the gunk that s in their mind all at the same time.
2
SPEAKER_03
But for a listener right now, you can do this on the fly as well.
2
SPEAKER_03
And I also teach that, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
It s like, just become aware of like, how am I thinking about this in the moment?
2
SPEAKER_03
And then
2
SPEAKER_03
Step two would be, imagine if you got to the door of that auditorium and there were chairs piled up and you still couldn t get out, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
So just seeing them is super helpful and allows you to navigate things better and they don t have the same effect on you that they did before you were aware of them.
2
SPEAKER_03
But step two is, sometimes you need to move the chairs, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
You have to get them out of the way.
2
SPEAKER_03
So step two in what I teach is to challenge the thought, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
Literally just stop believing in the truth.
2
SPEAKER_03
And that s the part where you have to understand
3
SPEAKER_01
right?
3
SPEAKER_01
If that teaching of lenses doesn t make sense, it still feels like us, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Imagine the easy one is just imagine the diehard Republican, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
It s really hard for a person to kind of give up on their lens, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because they think it s true and they re like, what are you talking about?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, if it s a negative thing about you, I ve had people show up and just argue so hard for their lenses.
3
SPEAKER_01
They ll be like, Rob, I m a loser.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like really, I m a loser.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was a loser in eighth grade.
3
SPEAKER_01
I lost all this money.
3
SPEAKER_01
I did all this and I will go, that s fantastic.
3
SPEAKER_01
However, if you want to now become a winner, we have to put that idea down.
3
SPEAKER_01
So in this moment, you have to actually change that thought.
3
SPEAKER_01
So it s just not a useful thought in this moment.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t even care if it has evidence.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s why I don t care about if it s true or not.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t care if it has evidence in the past because we re trying to change it.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re dragging your past into the future if you keep bringing that thought with you.
3
SPEAKER_01
You keep bringing the possibility for you to lose again, and you re going to look for being a loser.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re going to go to a party that has good experiences and bad experiences, and because you re carrying the thought of, I m a loser, you re going to come back and ruminate on all the parts that sucked.
3
SPEAKER_01
and create the story in your head of, I lost again, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
And the reality is, is you can go to that same party, have the same experiences, but make very different meaning out of it.
3
SPEAKER_01
So the move here, step two is to challenge the thought, just start to debate it and be like, that might not be true.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like maybe my boss doesn t hate me, or maybe it doesn t matter.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe I need to focus somewhere else, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So become aware of what you re doing.
3
SPEAKER_01
because we re not naturally aware.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s the delusion that I talked in the beginning.
3
SPEAKER_01
Step two is to challenge it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then step three is to replace it, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Put a more useful thought in.
3
SPEAKER_01
Move your focus over to something else that really helps.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that sounds almost too simple.
3
SPEAKER_01
It certainly doesn t sound revolutionary or anything.
3
SPEAKER_01
It is profound what happens in the individual when you do this with somebody.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because a lot of our limits we don t see, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Again, they re invisible to us.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I have a process to kind of pull those out of people and find all what I call the top triggers for them.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we find 10, 15, maybe 20 of those.
3
SPEAKER_01
And in a session, we can reframe those in a way where
3
SPEAKER_01
Within two to three weeks, people have a next level consciousness where all of those seem ridiculous.
3
SPEAKER_01
They almost don t seem connected to them in the same way.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I ll have to like play an audio for them and go, this is how you were talking two weeks ago.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then we laugh about it because they re like, I can t believe I ve been carrying that.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s absurd to me now.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that absurdity stays with them, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So it s not just something that we do for a second.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s literally a new way of seeing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Once they ve repatterned them, which is like step three, they actually bring these new ways of being, that actually addresses the subconscious, and the subconscious can shift over to make a different automatic thought, and that s a deeper concept that I d be thrilled to tell you more about.
3
SPEAKER_01
But essentially, that s step one, step two, and step three.
3
SPEAKER_01
One is to become aware, step two is to challenge it, just don t believe the limit that you re bumping up against in the moment, and three is replace with something more useful, a better way to focus, a better way to think.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
We do a lot of this type of work at the Yard of Charm Bootcamp by running people through drills and exercises and sort of showing them that they can do some of the things that they think they can t do.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s awesome.
3
SPEAKER_00
Nice.
3
SPEAKER_00
You can t always do it with everything, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
If somebody s afraid of heights, I m not like, all right, we re driving to New York City.
3
SPEAKER_00
We re going to make you hang off the side of a building.
3
SPEAKER_00
Trust me, we ve got your legs really tight.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re not wearing socks, are you?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we don t do that kind of stuff, but there s a lot of stuff that we do and are able to work on, and it s really, really powerful, that s for sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
Especially when it comes to things like earning more, getting promoted, having the types of relationships that you want in your life.
3
SPEAKER_00
with your family, your coworkers, or whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I know this stuff is extremely powerful.
3
SPEAKER_00
And we can do this kind of on a micro level, too, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
If you, for example, today, before the pre-show, you said, what s going on?
3
SPEAKER_00
I said, I m fixing this stupid Bluetooth mouse.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s unbelievable, blah, blah, blah, and you know, vent about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I thought about it for a second, and I was like, and that s my biggest problem today, so I m in a pretty good place, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
because I m not homeless or trying to figure out how to feed myself, or even anything real, like, oh, I dropped my phone and it exploded.
3
SPEAKER_00
I had to fix a Bluetooth mouse, like, not the end of the world, really easy, reboot, kind of fix it.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s a really great place to be in life, when that s what you re dealing with.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s your problem.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s a strategy known as comparing down, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s one of the most important things to learn.
3
SPEAKER_01
Most of us compare up, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
We re comparing the guy who just had the big success on Facebook,
3
SPEAKER_01
our friend who s got a business that never seems to fail, or I m comparing myself to Oprah, going like, why aren t I famous like that, or whatever s going on, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
That s comparing up, and that always comes with, holy shit, I suck, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
And there s survivalists that actually say this is the number one thing that you need to be able to survive in the wilderness, like when it gets tough and all that stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is literally a survival tactic, but on a much less severe thing, on your everyday life, it makes a ton of sense to just have the, do what you did.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right?
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like your mouse, you literally want to punch something, you want to throw it through the wall, you re like, I can t believe it.
3
SPEAKER_01
But then you go, you know what, if this is the worst thing that happened today, I m not homeless, at least I m still able to do this call, at least I, you know, whatever that immediate switch over to comparing down, you know, against what s not going bad for you, you know, moves into gratitude, it subtly moves into just a better mindset.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we, we all move on.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was funny, the whole hour before this call with you, and I ve been excited to do this, of course, and all that stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m having all this internet problem.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, I never have internet problems.
3
SPEAKER_01
What s going on with this?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m on with, you know, Comcast trying to figure it out.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m getting, you know, like, frustrated about it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, what s going on?
3
SPEAKER_01
And then I just opened to like, I ve tried everything, I m out of my control.
3
SPEAKER_01
And luckily, not because I changed how I was, but all of a sudden, the internet kind of fixed itself.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it was great.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I had already resolved like,
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, if we need to reschedule, that s what we need, you know, it s just going to be what it s going to be.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s, that s how it is.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so that s a move where you can feel the natural way of being getting really uptight, really kind of crazy, really kind of weird.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can switch it in a moment and you can master that.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can really get better at that.
3
SPEAKER_01
The way our brain is set up is that our neurons fire in a certain way, and then we have these kind of neuronal bundles that happen that are bigger patterns that work really well together, and memories are maybe stored in there and all that stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then that fires into our limbic system, which creates our emotional states and all that stuff, and then that fires down.
3
SPEAKER_01
and kicks off our autonomic nervous system, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Our parasympathetic and all that, our fight or flight.
3
SPEAKER_01
And our subconscious is that kind of lower brain that s firing like how our heart works and all these different things.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it s really useful to notice that we re starting to test that our subconscious is way more, and a lot of marketers know this, a lot of people know that you want to write marketing to like the emotional
3
SPEAKER_01
center because decisions are really made down there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Decisions are made even underneath that.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s actually studies now that when you are thinking about getting up and walking to a door to open the door, that your muscles are actually firing before that conscious decision is being made.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that might sound really weird, but it s milliseconds before, it s almost like we re walking around on a puppet that s got other motives than we re really aware.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if that doesn t make any sense, I ll point out that
3
SPEAKER_01
If you were on a train track and a speeding train is coming toward you and you turn, you don t have to consider or think or have any kind of conscious awareness.
3
SPEAKER_01
There are unconscious systems set up for you to react, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
For you to just jump out of the way.
3
SPEAKER_01
Same thing with a hot stove.
3
SPEAKER_01
If you touch a hot stove, it just moves.
3
SPEAKER_01
So most people think that our base motivational system is pain and pleasure.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think that our conscious mind, that s probably true, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
We re very consciously aware of moving toward pleasure and doing all that.
3
SPEAKER_01
But on the subconscious level, and this is a really important distinction that people don t get, our motivation is closer to avoiding pain and moving toward familiarity, okay?
3
SPEAKER_01
And so that move toward the familiar, because the subconscious doesn t really care if you re happy or having a lot of pleasure, it s only built to help you survive.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it wants two things to survive.
3
SPEAKER_01
It wants your physical body to survive, and it wants your identity to survive.
3
SPEAKER_01
It wants your self-concept to kind of continue living on.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the reason for that is that really any change is dangerous.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like any change that we haven t done before and we don t know what s going on, it s dangerous for us.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so any entrepreneur that s like at their edge trying to do the new thing, the next thing, like it s always scary at that edge because we haven t done it.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s always resistance, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
The whole war of art, you know, how do we keep creating?
3
SPEAKER_01
How do we do these things?
3
SPEAKER_01
We have a system that s built to resist that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so that subconscious learns, soaks up everything as we re cruising by.
3
SPEAKER_01
And as I mentioned before,
3
SPEAKER_01
That embarrassing thing, that time you had to give a speech at school and it didn t go well, now you re panicked about speeches, all that stuff.
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It is quite happy to keep you in a not expressed state just so that you can survive and reproduce.
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The minimum to keep you alive and potentially
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reproducing is like really all that your base brain system is set up to do.
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And, you know, a really good example to show that to people is to consider like, this is the reason that battered women often stay, right?
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People that are healthier, more balanced, all that look at battered women and go like, what are you doing?
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Like, he just beat you up again.
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Like, why are you going back to that?
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And they don t even know, they can t speak into it, because of course to them in their conscious mind, they re like, I want to go too.
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But the reality of the unknown, that scary leaving is so difficult for them, because that s scarier than the known beating that they might get here.
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And so that s a very hyper example of what many of us end up living into, we end up living into this
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comfort zone that s not that comfortable oftentimes, right?
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We re actually fairly miserable on a day-to-day basis and we re not expressed and we don t do our things.
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So it s really important to be able to get into the subconscious and start making changes.
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And what I do is I do something called identity shifting, right?
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Because if you think about the identity of
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an overweight person who really, if you asked them, they would say, you know, I m a big fat loser.
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Like, that s what my identity is, really.
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Like, I fail at losing weight all the time.
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No matter how excited that person gets about losing weight, oftentimes they ll find themselves the next day, even though they ve committed to not eating the cake, right?
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As they re saying, I don t want this cake, I don t want this cake, the cake is moving toward their mouth, almost like they would be jumping out of the way
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of a train because as their identity is set up to say, I m a big fat loser, literally the subconscious like works to make that true.
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And you find yourself nom, nom, nom, nom, nom, eating the cake again.
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And so what I m able to do is I m able to take somebody like that and shift their identity into I m an athlete.
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And you find that if you re an athlete, if you ve actually made that identity shift, and that s real for you, that s actually even if you re 100 pounds overweight, if you re an athlete, what do you do?
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Well, you re active, you probably go to a gym, you probably eat better.
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If you eat some cake, it s not the end of the world.
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But you, you know, are probably getting more fit as you go, if that s how you consider yourself.
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And so somebody like that can go.
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And before you know it, they end up being like a spin instructor, they re down 20 pounds, they re still 80 pounds overweight, but they re now an inspiration.
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Their literal whole world, their identity has changed.
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Before you know it, they re totally skinny, they re running triathlons and their life is different.
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And that s the same for an entrepreneur, right?
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Or like a wantrepreneur.
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You can take somebody who s a wantrepreneur who keeps thinking like, I m not an entrepreneur yet.
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I still need to learn more.
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If I just knew marketing, if I just knew this, then I could really begin.
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And the reality is they re resisting sales calls.
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They re not doing anything they need to do.
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If you can shift their identity over to, I am an entrepreneur, even if I don t have a lot of revenue yet or whatever, like I m an entrepreneur.
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Well, entrepreneurs make sales calls.
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They actually hire people and get help when they need it.
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They actually conceptually
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approach these things.
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So within the identity are all these behaviors.
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And so rather than doing the work to try to make it happen through a behavior, there s a way to shortcut and deal with the subconscious directly.
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and actually shift the identity that way.
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One more example to kind of show that, you know, New Year s resolution, right?
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How many of us have decided, you know, this is the year I m gonna become a runner or whatever.
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Most people fail at that.
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You know, very, very high percentage people that decide on January 1st that they re gonna be a runner.
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Most of them don t become runners, right?
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They buy the shoes, they try it for two days or seven days or whatever and they fail.
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The couple of people that do make it
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They did it through habit.
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They habituated the change long enough that eventually, what happened?
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The subconscious shifted over and said, I m an athlete.
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I m just gonna get up, or in this case, I m a runner.
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And so once that works, once you no longer have to use willpower, that s when the identity has grown or changed or taken on
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the new thing.
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As long as you need to use willpower, and willpower is an important part of change, but it s what most coaches are doing solely.
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It s a tough game to win, especially in our overcrowded Facebook messages and email and this and that.
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We re all riding around with decision fatigue.
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We don t have that much willpower left.
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And so as we re trying with this really crappy identity of I suck many times, we re going to try and take our little bit of willpower to get this new behavior
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hoping that that leads to a new future us, and the reality is that s backwards, right?
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The fastest way.
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Not that that never works.
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Some people do become runners that way.
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But that only works when you ve done it long enough that your subconscious decides, oh, now that s normalized and safe.
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I now can do that.
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That s okay.
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I don t have a problem.
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That s a better choice.
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I m okay with that. 
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So when I work with people, I show them the idiocy of their current choices and setups that, by the way, were probably really useful before in their life.
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If they were being beaten before or somebody was embarrassing them, it made sense then, but now it s no longer relevant and they re still carrying it.
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So we show that uselessness of their frames and their lenses in that moment.
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and we introduce new things to the subconscious and help the subconscious accept it, and then it has no problem doing that next thing because it doesn t care.
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It s like, I don t really care what we re doing, I just want to make sure we survive and carry on and do this.
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So if you can show it that you can be an entrepreneur and survive, that s the ninja move.
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Excellent.
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Well, thank you very much.
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There s so much we could get into here, but we will link to you robscott.com in the show notes And of course, we ll have a little write-up about this as well.
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So thanks so much for your time It s been excellent.
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You got a man talk soon
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Interesting, Jason, this guy came back from a whole world of crap.
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Oh man, talk about a rough story.
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I mean, the fact that he s still alive after all that just proves that he s on to something here.
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I know, I told you on our back channel, like, when we were listening to the show, I m just like, I just want to give him a hug, man.
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Yeah, I know, it s a lot of what we do at The Art of Charge, very, very similar.
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We do a little bit more practical, we re more in residence, right?
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You re immersed in it.
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And I can see how this stuff, what he s doing is useful.
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I mean, there s a lot of people here who see the world through their own stories, through their own lenses, and those need to be broken if you re gonna break out of that.
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I dig it.
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Show feedback and guest suggestions.
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The show s a fanarchy.
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It s run by you.
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We rely on you for guest suggestions, so if you got them, send them to guests at theartofcharm.com.
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And if you enjoyed this one, don t forget to thank Rob on Twitter.
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We ll have that linked in the show notes, as well as other resources, including his website, mentioned on the show.
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You can tap our album art in most mobile podcast players to see the show notes right on your phone.
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I m also on Twitter at The Art of Charm, and that s a great place to engage with me as well.
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Details on our boot camps, bootcamp.theartofcharm.com.
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Remember, we re sold out a few months in advance, so get in touch ASAP so you can plan ahead there.
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Subscribe on iTunes, write us a nice review, we ll love you forever, and it helps us stand out.
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Speaking of standing out, you can stand out with the Art of Charm Challenge.
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Now have a great week and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to the Art of Charm.
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