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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we call in fact-checker Doug to research the origin of dog years.
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We celebrate the COVID-driven resurgence of the QR code, and we work on how to take a complex sales pitch and turn it into a really simple story.
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Welcome, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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By longest running, what do you mean?
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Years or episodes?
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I mean, we ve been on 15 years, which is 2 and 1 7th dog years, I believe.
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I never understood dog years.
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I don t understand.
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No, we just take that for granted, but we don t really know.
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Where does that come from?
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There s got someone, listener, Doug Drozen.
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Alert Doug fact-checker Doug alert.
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Where did we get dog ears from?
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What is the origin of that?
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Please don t and why are we so quick to adopt it?
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Believe it.
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Yeah, because you asked the average five-year-old how what are dog ears?
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Oh seven years and yeah, how
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How did we know that?
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I don t know.
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That s weird.
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But hey, we re here every week for your listening and enjoyment.
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If you are a new listener, we re glad you re here.
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Go to the LinkedIn group.
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We re going to continue to put things in the LinkedIn group that you need to know about, specials, special content, special releases, stuff like that.
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And those of you who ve been listening for a long, long time and are not in LinkedIn group, head on over there.
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Are we pushing 13,000, something like that?
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A lot of people in there.
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And really, really good group there.
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I was on Clubhouse Room the other night in a podcast room.
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And if you re not familiar with podcasts, they have these rooms, and they re kind of dedicated to a topic.
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Clubhouse.
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What did I say?
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Podcast.
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Oh, Clubhouse.
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Clubhouse Podcast.
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Follow me around and correct me, yeah, because that, yeah, Clubhouse.
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And this one guy got on, and he said, well, I ve been at it for two years, and I just eclipsed a million downloads.
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Oh, OK.
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To which I said, that ain t nothing, brother.
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That ain t nothing.
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You think you re hot?
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A million downloads.
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And you re listening to him give you advice.
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Exactly.
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Why am I not on this stage?
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13 million downloads, I think, right?
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Or 14 million, something like that.
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A lot of downloads.
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Anyway, so I had a question for you.
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OK.
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You know, with all of the drama in our culture with COVID, mask mandates, all that stuff, you know, everybody talks about, as I always say, what the hell would we have talked about in the last year and a half if it had not been, we might ve been more creative.
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We did a creative process.
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That is a great question.
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But I don t know if it s you, if me, but you ve probably had this happen where you just meet somebody and you sit down and you start talking.
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Of course, at some point, they re going to say, well, you know, our office is closed.
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People are virtual.
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And there we go.
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Now we re into the conversation.
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We re in the COVID.
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And you re always in that tiptoeing mode because I know my perspective on it.
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And that s not to say it s right or wrong.
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It s just my perspective.
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And I know yours.
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But when you don t know somebody, you ve got to really be careful.
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You do.
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And at some point, they will say something that kind of opens it up.
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Like, here s what a guy said the other day.
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This is great.
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He said, he goes, did you get the jab?
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Well, I don t tell people whether I got it because it s really none of their business.
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But yeah, whenever someone says the jab, yeah.
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I feel like I know where they re coming from.
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Yes.
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Is that fair?
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It is.
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It totally is.
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OK.
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And I would sneak that in.
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And I was right.
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And I said, when you say jab, what do you mean?
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He goes, oh, I just think it s a bunch of rock.
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I said, OK, yeah.
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I figured that.
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But I just want to confirm before I go.
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The jab versus the vaccine.
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The vaccine.
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Or vaccinated, yeah.
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It s like one is a forced hit into your arm.
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Exactly.
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The other is an accepted thing.
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And the Brits all call it the jab.
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They do.
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Over there, I think that s just the way they refer to it, because they ve got a unique language.
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Here, I think the jab means, I don t want it.
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I don t like it.
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So now let s see.
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So in business, because we were taught this in early business, we don t talk about politics or religion.
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Now we don t talk about politics, religion, or the jab.
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That s right.
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It s off limits.
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It is true, though.
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You do have to kind of ease your way.
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And people have very strong opinions.
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I appreciate that.
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I m very OK with people.
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I am, too.
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And it is interesting, though, that people sometimes assume your opinion.
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Have you had that before, where I just meet you?
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Oh, yeah.
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I ve made this outside assessment of how you believe without actually knowing it.
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It s an interesting thing to me.
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Now, here s a question.
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You just said,
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And I agreed with, you know, everybody s got their opinion, and that s OK.
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I think that attitude tells me where you stand on stuff.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I do think that s OK.
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It s true, though.
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It s very true.
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I do.
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I let everybody stand on their own opinions.
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Yeah, for sure.
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Me included.
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Topic today.
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You ready?
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Yeah, I m ready.
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Good one.
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Good one.
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All right.
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I ve got a client who I just started working with.
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And one of their goals for me, or one of my goals for his 30, 45 days, is to help them with messaging.
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because their messaging, they re in a very complex solution type of sale, long selling cycle, very technical in terms of how the customer wants it delivered.
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And it s hard to understand.
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And so one of my assessment components is to interview the owners, because I always figure like the owners would have probably the best sense of message.
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One would hope.
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And then I interview the sales team.
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And what I find interesting is that most of the time, when you ask someone, so tell me, what do you do, or tell me about your company, we typically will tell them from our perspective.
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We ve been around for 100 years.
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We have an app that really helps our customers save money.
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The way we do things is very different.
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We blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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It almost always comes from the standpoint and perspective of our own.
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And I interviewed the salesperson,
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And he is their number one by far.
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And I said, well, tell me when you go in, what do you say?
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And his response tells you why he s the number one salesperson.
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He did not mention their company, the company he represents, once.
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It was all about the customer and the shifts in the market that have caused this squeeze on the customer, which is true.
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And he went on for like two minutes and I m like, that was awesome.
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I said, do you say that every time?
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He says, no.
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I said, well, why d you bring it out here?
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He said, well, I figured that s what you were wanting.
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He says, I used it about a year ago, and we got the deal.
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And so I think what happens is we tend to revert back to what s comfortable, which is telling our story through our eyes, not through theirs.
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Yes.
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What do you think about that?
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Well, first of all, it s a fantastic topic.
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The idea of the complexity of anyone s solution these days is getting more and more complex exponentially.
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Very rarely do you or I, I ll speak for me, but I think you would agree, come across a new client where their solution or their product or whatever they do is super simple.
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Like, it s a bag of sugar.
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It doesn t exist anymore.
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I don t know.
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I mean, it s innovation and all the complexities of delivery and technology.
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So if I started at Procter & Gamble selling toilet paper, well, now there s so much complexity behind how the toilet paper gets replaced.
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We track each piece of toilet paper, UPC.
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We have IoT.
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We have actually microchips.
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That would be interesting.
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That would be ugly, but go ahead.
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Now my mind s in another place.
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Yeah.
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So we ve got you on the toilet paper.
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What do you call this?
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QR codes?
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QR codes.
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Can I go on record and say that COVID saved the QR code?
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It did.
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Oh, yeah.
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COVID, the QR code, it was COVID, a really, really big thank you.
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Because the QR code was dying a slow death.
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It was.
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But it was around and people were pushing it, but nobody was buying it.
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Yeah.
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Now we can t let, yeah, now restaurants are like, how d you scan it?
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And if you ve been to a restaurant where you hit the QR code, and it opens up a PDF that you literally cannot read.
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You ve got to pinch out and move it around, and you get carpal tunnel.
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As opposed to some of those, you hit it, and man, it s a beautiful menu.
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Yes.
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But I think the complexity is here to stay.
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And so salespeople, you re listening to this for a reason.
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You have got to, got to work on the topic that Bill s bringing to us today.
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which is you ve got to figure out how to simplify a very complex scenario and solution that cannot include all the stuff that you do in the way that you do it.
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It cannot.
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And what you just said is good, is that our solutions have become more complex in terms of how we deliver them, how we achieve them.
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At the same time, the attention span of the prospect has gone to almost zero.
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So those two things together force you into this box where you better be good at explaining your value and helping the customer see that they should not end the meeting, that they should continue at a time when they re looking to end meetings, because they don t have the time.
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Wow.
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That s the squeeze.
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That kind of is the squeeze that the salesperson is in today, really.
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This is good.
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It s a head voice.
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This is good.
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It s good for me.
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I need this right now, too.
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My head s in here.
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So I think we ve agreed that the world, these selling communications in general, meaning the story behind what we sell, is getting more complex.
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And the window of attention is shrinking, which makes it even more important that we get really good at this.
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So let s talk about, what do you want to talk about?
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You want to talk about what to do about it?
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In our two-hour pre-show planning meeting,
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We went through a little bit of this.
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Two hours.
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Bull ride.
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I ll start.
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Eight seconds.
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Eight seconds.
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That s about right.
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Maybe.
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We didn t make it to the eee.
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Yeah.
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That s good.
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Bull ride.
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It s like the attention.
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It s like the attention span.
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We go for about as long as a bull ride.
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Yeah.
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If you can make it to the buzzer.
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So here s the first thing I think of when I think of, OK, if we re going to tell the story from the customer s eyes, I think we have to start somewhere.
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And I don t think it can be, well, here are the problems that most people have, because you don t know if they have those problems.
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But you want to tee up the, ultimately, you re going to be asking them about their problems, or where they re going, or why they decided to see you.
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I think a good place to start is, has there been any shift
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in the ground in their niche?
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Like if you re calling on accountants, let s just say.
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What has shifted in their world over the last, and I m not talking COVID shifts here, just over the last five to 10 years, what has happened?
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Has the number of businesses declined?
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So their prospects have gone down.
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Have the number of virtual CFOs, or what do you call them, part-time CFOs where you can hire?
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Yeah, yeah, part, we call it a word, isn t it?
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Or partial, it s not partial.
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Partial CFO.
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Is it?
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Yeah.
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So what are all the shifts that have happened in the market that are causing these problems?
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Do that before you get into the problems because it could be that they either don t feel the shift or they say, you know what, I never thought about that, but yeah, maybe that s why we re not able to generate more clients.
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So what has shifted in the market for them, not for you in your market, but in their market that would cause them to say, we ve got to change things.
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Love that.
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So market shift.
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Market shift.
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That s a good way to say what has changed in the market.
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OK.
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This is a, I literally just thought of this and wrote this down.
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It came from a client meeting I actually had this morning.
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I had breakfast with one of my clients.
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We re doing some retooling of their whole sales function, really.
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People, everything, processes, all of it.
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Accidentally, we came up with, and I just wrote this down, the two-word story.
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What is your two-word story?
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And you talk about a hard thing to do is to come down to it.
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And where we landed with this company, they do some marketing stuff online.
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We amplify brands.
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We amplify brands.
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So if you sell anything, you sell toothpaste online, you sell ice cream, you sell shoes, we amplify brands.
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Most people hearing those two words, if you re a brand, can understand that.
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There s more.
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You want to know how, why, that sort of thing.
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There is a story behind that.
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Like you say, there s market shift.
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So it s crowded, right?
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There s a lot more noise online.
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Yes, all this stuff.
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The shift of online buying, there s a big story behind it.
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But that s where they begin.
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Yes.
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That s the beginning part.
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Yeah.
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People go, wow, OK, interesting.
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I want to learn more about that.
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Think about, is it possible?
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And literally, I just thought of this, so I ve not even done this myself yet for us, is what is your two-word story?
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Interesting.
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So probably a verb needs to be first.
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A verb and a noun or something.
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Like amplify, amplify brand.
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Yeah.
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It s really tough, isn t it?
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It is.
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But I bet we could come up with,
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I bet the listener could come up with some things.
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And again, this is not your whole presentation.
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This is the beginning of it.
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And then you can fill in that with the story, or the shifts, or things like that.
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Yes, definitely not the whole.
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Yeah, good point.
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Definitely not, this is like it.
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What this forces you to do, though, is get down to that really essence of what you do, and then build the story around that.
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I think people get cluttered.
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They build it outside in, so they have all the stuff in it.
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Well, we take our 40 years of experience and combine that with our technical expertise and provide robust data enterprise-wide solutions for clients in the construction industry.
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And you re like, you lost me already.
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You ve already lost me.
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Make it that simple, and then build the story on that.
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Plus the jargon that s used in that example is not, you know, what did Kennedy, John F. Kennedy say, you know, make your speech for a fifth or sixth grader.
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And it is, the purpose of that is so they ll get it, they ll understand it, they ll hear every word.
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They re not thinking about, well, what does interoptic biology mean?
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And you re 17 minutes in and they re still thinking about that.
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So I like that.
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I like the simplification of it.
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I had a third here, and this is more of a what not to do.
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And that is, don t talk about their pains, or don t ask them about their pains and problems, or where they see themselves in this story.
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So in your example, they might say, look, here s the bottom line is we amplify brands.
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Let me tell you why that s important today.
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Because over the last 10 years, things have changed.
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Three things have caused that.
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Number one, the economy.
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Number two, digital.
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Number three, whatever.
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And some of the problems that that has brought up is companies don t know how to brand themselves anymore.
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And so therefore, they spend a lot of money on stuff that doesn t work, blah, blah, blah.
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Then you can say, so tell me, of the things that I ve just said, does anything hit home with you?
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Does anything resonate?
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Yes.
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So that s where I think you bring up pain after the story.
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Second thing is, I don t think your process really matters now either.
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I think you save that for later.
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Because if you have a step one, we do this.
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Step two, we assess.
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Step three, we analyze.
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Step four, we begin.
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So I don t know that that matters up front.
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And I think a lot of people just vault to process.
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Not a lot, but some do.
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Some become so.
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just familiar and proud of their process that they can t wait to share it.
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I don t think process means anything until you understand whether the customer even has a story that s important.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Interesting.
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So I did write jargon-free, by the way.
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And everyone needs to, in fact, check their story around jargon for sure.
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That s number two, Doug Drozen, or did you just say you said fact checks?
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He s already busy.
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His ears just kind of perk up.
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He s already busy.
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Doug loves this role.
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He really does.
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I mean, he runs his own consulting practice and writes books and stuff.
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He loves more than anything, though, that he s fact checkered.
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I got a call.
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I got a call from Doug at 7 a.m.
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last Monday.
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The podcast wasn t up yet.
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Shush.
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And he, no.
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So I wrote this down, and I don t even know what I mean here.
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I do know what I mean.
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I wrote down the word, I kind of stole this from Gary Vee, full disclosure.
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I wrote down the word cartooning.
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And this gets a little to the simplification, but it adds something to it.
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And I m not a cartoonist at all, for sure.
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But if you watch cartoons, and I m talking about simple cartoons, two things happen.
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They have simple language, and they have simple pictures.
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Remember the the books we used to learn how to read, right?
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See spot and see spot and there it is, right?
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And you see it and it s a dog and you see the dog running and you see the the ball see spot run to the ball.
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There was never any confusion about it.
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No, most of us knew that in second grade.
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We knew what was going on.
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We weren t like
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Now, what is going on in the dog s soul here?
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Is the dog running from his triggers?
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I mean, what is going on here?
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It s like, no.
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It s very simple.
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And so think about cartooning your story.
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What would it look like?
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And what would it sound like?
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And if you do it in cartoon form, I think it naturally simplifies it.
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Because it s hard to cartoon robust enterprise-wide solution.
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That s really hard to draw.
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You know what I mean?
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But you could cartoon the person who doesn t have the right enterprise solution and what they go through, and maybe a cartoon of a person holding their head saying, I thought I had this enterprise thing nailed, but I guess it got away from me.
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And so, yeah, I like that.
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I like that.
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There s a line at the door of the IT director, and they ve all got a sign, right?
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It s a complaint thing.
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Yellow cards.
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Yellow cards, yes, yes.
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And you see the IT director hiding under his desk.
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Like that alone?
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That s a great idea.
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That alone, that s it.
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Like you don t even need to say anything.
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And if you, in a way, if you can t reduce it to one cartoon slide, it s probably too complicated.
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Right, right.
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Who s our friend from the Insider that does cartooning?
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From Massachusetts.
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Oh, God.
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Oh my gosh.
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Yeah, I m sorry.
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Here we are.
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Starts with an S. Oh, yeah, she s awesome.
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She actually did some work for a client of mine.
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She did, yes, yes.
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And produced some very good stuff.
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You said that, yes, that s great.
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Sorry, I don t recall.
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I don t have it with me.
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But anyway, you can find cartoonists on Upwork or Fiverr.
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And now you re going to have to give them exactly what they draw.
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You can t just say, hey, draw me a picture of an enterprise-wide solution person.
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They re frustrated.
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They re going to like, oh, what are you talking about?
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A robust one.
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Yeah, right.
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That s crazy.
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Can you speak Russian, please?
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I ll take those instructions in Russian.
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In Russia, we have tradition, we drink vodka.
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That s from Gilgamesh Island.
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I think those are some good starting points.
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And I think the first thing, the assignment probably for our listeners is start to identify A, the two-word synopsis of your value, and then B, start to think a little bit about
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And I had another client who I went through this process with in a one-to-one.
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And he was like, I don t know.
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I don t know if there s any market shifts.
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Well, after we started to think about it a little bit, he identified three that he wasn t even thinking about.
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So I think these things are, sometimes we re blind to them because we re too close to them.
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Yes, there s no doubt.
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It s so great to hire a coach to help you see something that you can t see in front of you.
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And everybody needs that.
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Because it s always there.
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It s always there.
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You have to believe it s always there.
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People with outside perspective can help you find that for sure.
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So coming up on our ASP Insider event in October, we are going to be talking about a great topic, and I know it s one that s near and dear to your heart.
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It is personal productivity and the tools that will help you become more productive.
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spending a whole hour and 15 minutes.
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So if you re not an insider and want to grab this event, go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider.
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The fee per month is extremely inviting.
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Very.
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And you ll get coaching from Brian and I on that call.
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And we also record all those calls.
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So if you happen to miss a call, you ll get access to it through our portal.
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And the group is awesome.
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Everybody should be an insider.
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We ve got a lot more people, too, over the last couple of months.
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No doubt.
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And so the more, the better, really.
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For sure.
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All right, see you next time.
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Bye.