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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast, podcast history.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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Brian Neal here.
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We are so happy to be with you as we wind up 2022.
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If you re listening to this in 2023, sorry, you missed this live, but we are.
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Happy we had an awesome year.
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We ve made friends with a lot of you and we got a great insider group.
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If you re not familiar with insider go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider learn more and we just had a great year.
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And so we re looking forward to closing this out strong.
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Fantastic year.
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Yeah.
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And a special thanks to all of our loyal listeners over the years.
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No matter what, we know that you ve got a choice in podcast and we thank you for joining us.
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You didn t used to, but you re doing now.
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No, you didn t.
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That s, you see, we, yeah, we got you early when you didn t have another choice.
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Now you do.
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And the fact that you stuck around means something.
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to us.
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It really does.
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It s good.
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It does really great.
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We had great listeners and it s just great.
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I hear people and they meet them and like, I listen to your podcast.
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It s just fun, fun stuff.
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So, um, tis the season bill holiday season, isn t it?
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Do you happen to know what St.
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Nicholas night is?
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No, St.
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Nicholas night.
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And I don t know the details of all the, you know, backstory, but, uh, and I think, I don t, it s, I think it s a Catholic thing.
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I don t know.
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We re Catholic, and so it was always a thing.
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You basically, on December the 4th, kids put their shoes outside of their bedrooms, and they get filled with candy and small gifts and things like that.
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So we ve been doing this for years.
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It s been a lot of fun.
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Well, my kids are a little older now.
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I ve got two in college, two in high school.
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And I got a text from my, so I ve got a junior and a sophomore in high school, and they re wearing a little text right together.
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So yesterday, the morning of St.
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Nicholas Night,
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after they get to school, my son, whose name is Nicholas, texts me and his brother and says, St.
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Nicholas didn t come with the crying emoji, like sad, like weeping emoji.
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He s 18 years old.
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His brother, who s a year older, says, yeah, WTF.
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So I wrote back and I said, he did come and couldn t find any shoes outside the doors, maybe next year.
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And then my son, Nicholas said, is that why you woke me up?
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I said, perhaps.
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Nicholas said, RIP, meaning it s over.
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We didn t get any for St.
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Nicholas.
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So.
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For all of you who have young kids, who are still in the believer phase, and Bill s getting to recycle this with grandkids, which is great, hang on to those magic moments because they disappear fast.
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The next thing you know, you get a yeah, WTF text from your son because he didn t get some licorice and some Tootsie Rolls in his size 13 and a half shoes.
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So there s that.
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But he didn t leave them out, right?
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So that s, yeah.
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And then of course I put that up on Instagram.
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I got all sorts of like parent comments.
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Yeah.
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Look by the door.
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They re probably all piled up out there.
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That s where the shoes are, right?
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Check them out in the living room.
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There s probably one in the living room, one in the playroom, blah, blah, blah.
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I leave my shoes out every night.
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Totally right.
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What are we doing?
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So I thought that was kind of a fun little meaning thing into the holiday, but I do miss those days.
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Your grandkids, their wheelhouse, right?
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Yeah, they re still believers, and they re six, and they probably will be for another year or two.
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But yeah, it s a fun time, and it does.
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It recycles back.
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It reminds you of when your daughters and kids were still believers in the big man and the big guy.
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Fun, fun, fun.
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All right, topic today.
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I ve got a topic that might be a little confusing, so let me tell you kind of the background of it.
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As you do in your business, and I do in my business, we re always looking for ways to improve the adoption of some of the things that we teach.
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And when you go into a group of 10 people, chances are it s the 80-20 rule.
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20% of those 10, two of them are going to really adopt quickly.
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and they re looking for some other way to do things, to sell in this case, or manage.
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And then you have the 80% who are in various categories.
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And I was thinking about this, and I drew a pyramid the other day.
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Oh, nice.
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Like a pyramid or a triangle?
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So at the at the bottom is the bottom rung is just how we ve always done things.
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It s the we re prisoners of habit.
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And even though we re prisoners of habit, we re prisoners of habit.
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And even though we re prisoners of habit, we re prisoners of habit.
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So we may say we want to change.
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Really, we don t.
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We just want business as usual in the telecom business.
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It was BAU, business as usual.
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And that s what we want.
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And so there s that kind of the ethos, how it s always been done at the bottom.
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The next level up, we start to look at the group.
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So there s the group that acquiesce to the way things have always been done.
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The military, you don t want a million people in the military doing their own thing.
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You want them to be compliant.
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You want them to say, well, this is the way we attack an enemy or whatever.
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Same way in like, you know, if you work for Guidelamp and Anderson and you re on the assembly line, you want a bunch of compliant people to do the work and do it the way it s said.
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In sales, though, we have a lot of what we ll call acquiescers.
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And so not many, because I don t think most people listen to this or just compliance, or they wouldn t be listening.
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The next level up are the people who know they want to change.
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They know that the system is not working very well.
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Maybe they know that because they re only closing 13% of the deals they propose.
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So there s a big time suck, big time waste.
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And so they know that the way that things are,
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There s got to be a better way, but they re afraid.
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They re terrified of if they step out of line, kind of like the tall poppy syndrome, if the poppy grows too tall, somebody s going to come along and chop it off.
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And it could be you re afraid of being fired, afraid of being shamed, afraid of not getting a deal that you thought was there.
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So there s a reluctance to try anything new because there s fear.
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And I know you re going to add one element here.
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And then at the top rung, you have the people who are the flourishers.
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They re the adopters.
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They re the ones.
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They re the two out of 10 that say, Brian, if you say that ll work, man, I m going to do it.
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Count on me.
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And then they call you back in three days and say, hey, it worked.
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It worked perfectly.
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And so my question is, and then you can add your element of the
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to it is, what is it that allows us to be in that top group?
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Is it personality-based?
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Is it how we perceive things?
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Is it point of view?
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Is it our mindset?
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And because I think that you listeners, you want to get to that top group.
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That s really where the fun happens and where the joy happens and where the money happens is when you can take your fear out of the equation and try these new things.
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Yeah, I love.
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I wrote down on my board.
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Next is a group that maybe wants a different way, but they re just scared to break rank.
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So that s the scared group.
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And then the next group is a group that wants to break rank, but they re just scared to break rank.
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Then this third group, and I gave it a name, I put the longing group.
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Now they re up above, they re like, man, I ve escaped from the, you know, the chains of the militaristic side and how, but I want a better way, but I m still not quite there.
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Then there s this flourishing group at the top that just always seems to be having success with things that they try and try new things.
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willing to try new things, almost at the drop of a hat.
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Yes.
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Even if it s not proven.
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Yes.
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They ll try it because they say anything s better than what I m doing now.
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Yeah, I m willing to see if this is a big needle mover.
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This is great.
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I think, yes, we know what causes and we see this all the time.
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I m thinking of a person
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that I work with.
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Her name is Gina.
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She lives out in the New Jersey, Philadelphia area.
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Been in her business for 25 plus years.
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East coast, hard.
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And she owns it.
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She s like, I m a Philly girl.
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And when I first met her, I m like, oh, God.
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This ain t going to go well.
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Oh, boy.
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Yeah.
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I have never had someone implement ideas with as much rigor and success in my 25 years of doing this as Gina.
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And she swears by tools that we ve taught her.
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She s like, I will never not do this, stuff like that.
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What was it about Gina as I rewind?
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And I think even though she was in it, top of her game ever, she has always been, always been in my belief, open to the next best thing.
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Why she is who she is and why she s done what she s done.
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Yes.
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She s gotten promoted since I ve been with her.
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I ve only been with her for two years.
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And she s just how she is.
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And it wasn t like some special skill, some special gift.
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She s not got the, like she said, she s like, she says, I m a Jersey girl.
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I m a Philly girl.
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She s, you know what I mean?
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She s not like, like suave and, you know, didn t go to Harvard business school.
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No, and she doesn t think through things for two years before she tries them.
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She says, does that sound logical?
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Yeah, it does.
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Let s give it a shot.
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Let s give it a go.
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Yep.
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And as a Philly girl, she s also tried other things.
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She s like, Hey, Bri, we tried that.
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It bombed.
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We went over 16 and she s not mad at me.
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She doesn t say I m the loser.
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She doesn t say your stuff doesn t work.
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She goes, that one blew up on us.
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No gut, no dice.
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Very direct.
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I love that.
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But she was this other thing.
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We ll never go back to the old way.
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So there s some lesson in there for me about, okay, what makes someone that way?
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I think one of its worldview, she just is always open.
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Someone like Gina s always open.
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Yeah, so maybe we talk about what are the elements of either personality or psychology that allow movement from that fear, terrified, longing group up to the master s group.
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I think one thing is, and I ll share what I think, is this concept of detachment.
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you know we typically think of detachment as only in the sales process but to me detachment filters its way through all of our lives and if we are too attached to a certain outcome then we re unwilling to take risks because the risk is too great and so I think we ve got to employ detachment in everything we do whether it s
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you know, posting on LinkedIn, or whether it s calling somebody out of the blue, or whether it s doing a webinar when I ve never done one before.
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Whatever those things are, there has to be an element of detachment, because if there s not, we will want everything to be predicted and just so, and that s not the world we live in.
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Not at all.
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So detachment to me is one of those channels, one of those roadways, those paths that help us get from afraid to do something to we re going to do it.
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I love that.
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I m going to pull a little pop psychology on you, Bill.
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Been in a lot of therapy.
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Learned a lot of therapy words.
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This is a therapy word, counselor.
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Her name is Christy.
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She s here in Indianapolis.
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She s awesome.
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And she talks about the idea of codependence, counterdependence, and interdependence.
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Codependent people tend to be just that, they have to rely on others, they seek energy from others to fulfill themselves.
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Codependent, can t, right?
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There is counterdependent, people that move against others for protection, to stay away and rebel and kind of push away.
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Counterdependent, that s what I am, counterdependent.
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Interdependent are comfort in being the self as you are, and comfort then moving in and out of relationships with others in a very healthy manner.
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And she teaches her couple she works with to strive for interdependence.
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Two individual humans, not counter or co, that can coexist and live together.
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It s really great.
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So really healthy.
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Very healthy.
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I think people that flourish have found their way to the interdependent self.
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They re no longer counterdependent.
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Your stuff doesn t work.
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I know what I m doing, Bill.
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I ve been doing this 30 years.
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I m good at what I do.
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Push away.
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Or codependent.
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I don t know what to do.
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What should I do next?
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Well, I tried that.
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That didn t work.
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What should I do next?
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What should I do next?
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I don t know what to do.
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That codependent.
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I think confident interdependent.
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I m very comfortable with who I am.
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I have a lot of skill and stuff.
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I don t know everything.
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It s very balanced way to be right.
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You know, yeah, the thing I like about that is the count is the interdependent.
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It takes away the identity of self being dependent upon whether a deal comes through or not.
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I am who I am, not whether you love me or not, or whether you pay me or whether you buy from me.
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But it s just I identify with who I am.
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And that s enough.
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Yes.
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Kind of the Stuart Smalley.
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Yes.
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But there s a lot of truth to that.
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We all laugh at that.
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But that is the definition to me of interdependent.
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I d be good with you as a client.
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I d be good without you because I ve got other people to work with.
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And so that s a healthy detachment I think we talk about.
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So I like that.
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Very good.
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Very good.
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I also think that when you have an army with you, you re not as petrified of the new endeavor.
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So if I look around and I ve got people to my left and right who are trying the same things and who are in my group, whatever, whether that s a public group or inside a company or just my, you know,
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informal network who are also trying to do this, I think it makes it easier to try.
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It s like if I m one of many, I m much more comfortable than if I m just out there on my own trying this and nobody else in the company is trying it.
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So I think that s the power of what you and I do with groups, whether it s public or corporate, is if everybody s learning this at the same time, there s velocity in numbers.
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Yep.
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Yep, everybody has to have somebody to help them.
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Yeah, all these things.
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back to interdependent.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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If I m fighting alongside somebody who has the same mission I do, then it s a whole lot easier to go to battle and to try new things because I know that I m not alone.
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Yes.
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And especially at a time when I think sales can be somewhat, we ve talked about this, a lonely profession because you re on your own.
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Maybe you re in your room.
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You re not at the office anymore.
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It can be lonely.
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And so just having a group of people to
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to vibe from and draw energy from, it s really important.
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Yes, I love that.
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Last one, and I don t know what to do with this one, but it s just, I don t wanna like get us derailed at all, but you heard the term, I was sick and tired of being sick and tired.
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It s time, time for a change.
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You see, People Magazine always does, their January edition of People Magazine is almost always people that have lost half their body weight.
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for some crazy body weight, right?
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250 pounds down to 150 lean and mean.
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And then almost all those stories, they all do it a different way.
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Some of them use intermittent fasting.
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Some of them use hit working out.
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Some of them don t eat carbs.
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But what s always the same is they got to a point where they were sick and tired of being sick and tired.
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They didn t want to be like that anymore.
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Yeah.
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And what I always wonder is, does that just happen?
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Or do you find that yourself?
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So if you re a salesperson, and you re constantly number six on the leaderboard out of 10, every month, like, God, I want to be number two, at some point, you go screw it.
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I m sick of being number six.
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Yeah, I m going to be number one now.
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And it goes.
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And then you do these things we re talking about.
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And is there an ability to conjure that up and make it happen?
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Or is it forced?
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You know what I mean?
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Does a person who s six out of 10 have to get fired before they get angry?
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I don t know.
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That s a big question.
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But yeah, that s a big question.
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Because that gets back to, you know, detach effort.
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Screw it.
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Right.
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Totally.
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You know what I m
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better than this.
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But then you get into, oh, wait a minute, I m better than this.
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Are you competing against other people?
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That feels a little weird.
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But I think if you compete against yourself, like what Bobby Knight used to always say, the biggest competitor is between you and yourself.
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It s not between you and the other person.
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But I like that idea of you get to a point where you hit bottom.
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Yeah.
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Just hit bottom.
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Yeah.
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And trust me, I know what hitting bottom means.
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Amen to that.
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But that s health.
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I don t think that s unhealthy.
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I don t think it s unhealthy to say, you know what, screw it.
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I don t know what else to do.
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I m going to go with another way.
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Yeah.
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I m tired of being over six.
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Yeah.
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And so if you re listening to this, and you re number six out of 10, maybe this is your deal.
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Yeah.
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Like, you know, I heard that episode on Vance Selling Podcasts, and I said, screw it, and you re going to be number one the rest of your life.
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Yeah.
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That s great.
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And it doesn t come from a place of competition.
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It comes from, I owe it to myself to be as good as I can be.
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SPEAKER_01
I don t owe it to anybody else, which is part of that interdependent and how to identify.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it all links together.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s all one big thread.
1
SPEAKER_00
One big red thread.
1
SPEAKER_00
One big red thread.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right, good stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
Hey, if you haven t joined the Insider already, boy, go, go do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
You got to do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
You got to shame on you.
1
SPEAKER_00
Go, go, go join the Insider right this second.
1
SPEAKER_00
Great way to start your 2023 and then join our LinkedIn group.
1
SPEAKER_00
We re always posting lots of fun things in there and people are posting lots of fun things.
1
SPEAKER_00
So LinkedIn group.
1
SPEAKER_01
And happy birthday to you.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, thank you very much.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Last week.
1
SPEAKER_00
53, 5-3-53.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
Getting up there.
1
SPEAKER_00
Hey, you re getting up there, man.
1
SPEAKER_00
Boy, don t feel like it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Just keep coloring your hair.
1
SPEAKER_00
Keep it black.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s so weird.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have all my hair, and I don t color it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Never, ever touch it with any color.
1
SPEAKER_00
Full gray beard, but, you know, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_00
My grandpa was full head of hair, like, pretty dark, probably most of his life.
1
SPEAKER_00
Probably never lose it.
1
SPEAKER_00
We ll see.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Cheers.
1
SPEAKER_00
See you next time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Bye.