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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast, podcast history.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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I m Brian Neal over here.
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We come to you every Monday morning.
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And if you are fairly new to the podcast, maybe in the last few weeks or months, make sure you go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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There s a little place there you can click on the top performing and most popular podcasts over the last few years.
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And that d probably be a good place to start instead of having to go all the way back to the very beginning and listen to 1,700 episodes.
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Some people do that though.
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There are people, we live in a binge world, don t we?
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A binge society.
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You binge TV, you know, you binge shows, you binge content binging.
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And some people will binge the advanced selling podcast.
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They just do.
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And that s fine.
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We love that.
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We appreciate that.
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Yeah, but then they burn out about 1957.
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Not if you have a long drive.
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That s right.
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It s travel season, right?
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Yeah, we re speaking to you, sales dad, sales guy dad, who s driving across the country with his kids on his way to Yellowstone.
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That d be us.
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But you see the woman got gored in Yellowstone, by the way?
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No.
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The woman from Columbus, Ohio got gored by a bison.
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I don t mean to laugh.
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But I m like, you got to stay away.
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You know, like, thinks you got too close to a bison.
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Well, it s not funny, but I m like, you got to stay.
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I just don t understand what part of a person s brain thinks it s a good idea to get up close to a bison.
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You know, it s just, it s really sad.
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And then at the same time, I m like, what are we doing?
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I don t know.
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Well, I think our culture, though, we see a lot of media where the leopard is laying down with the zookeeper, and they re just petting.
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You think, oh, gosh, that looks like all leopards are that way.
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And then you get out in the wild, and the leopard takes your.
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No.
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Exactly.
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I don t know.
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It s just silly.
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Speaking of societal things, I had COVID last week, round two.
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By the way, it s going around again, apparently.
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So stay clean.
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Not horrible symptoms, but symptoms.
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So I m watching a lot of TV.
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And I think Thursday night, maybe I m flipping through, the National Spelling Bee was on.
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The National Spelling Bee.
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We ve talked about this years ago.
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I love the guy who reads the words.
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Look him up too.
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He was just a spelling bee kid when he was a kid.
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He loved it.
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He asked to be the reader and they let him.
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He s really got an interest.
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He s a professor of
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Greek and Latin in New Hampshire, Vermont, something like that.
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Anyway, there s a new thing they do, Bill.
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This is a societal mark.
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So the kids read their word.
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When they re wrong, what do they do?
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When the kid reads his word and he s wrong, what do they do?
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Do you remember what they do?
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What the judge does, yeah.
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Uh, I m sorry.
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They ring a bell.
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Oh, that s right.
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They say no.
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And they spell it correctly.
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Okay.
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And the kids are little, you know, and they re upset or whatever.
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So now to make them feel better that now every time a person fails, every time they fail, this woman comes on and reads a little paragraph to the person about how great they are.
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And so this is an example of this.
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Every time a kid fails, this woman comes on just so we don t have the kids a little too uncomfortable for failing.
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Not the same paragraph.
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It s very personal.
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So here s one.
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This is one.
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So you can hear this.
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I need to say just a word about you.
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You are one of our two 11 year old sixth graders that are here tonight in the final competition.
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And I think something that I ve read, you were asked who was your favorite cartoon character.
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You probably remember what you said.
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But I was most impressed.
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You said, it s Wiley E. Coyote.
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Though I frown on his apparent light goals, his persistence is admirable.
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And it made me think.
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Your life goals are so apparent, and your persistence is beyond admirable.
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And I want you to continue to keep both those things in the forefront of your mind, because we will most likely be seeing you back, if not next year, in years to come.
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Congratulations to you.
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Now that s really nice.
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They, every time a kid fails, they read a personal paragraph about them.
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And I m sitting here thinking, where have we gone?
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Where are we now?
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We can t let a kid, it s like, what if I sit there in little league and every time the kid strikes out, I m like, okay, before we go to the dugout, can I just have a word here?
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I d like to talk to Trevor.
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Trevor, you did a great job swinging that, you know?
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The kid struck out like he missed the ball.
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They missed the word they lost.
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Come back again.
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Try harder next time.
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I don t know.
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Maybe it s too hard.
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It s just the last 16 that they do this for.
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They don t do it.
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Yeah.
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No, but that s still a lot.
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I mean, it s still, it s whatever, whoever this makes for a long COVID you re laying there.
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It s the adult version of, Oh, we can t be okay.
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We can t stand to see kids not okay.
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So we ve got to go in and make sure that they never feel bad emotion.
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That s my problem with it.
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You teach kids to never, ever feel bad emotion or pain or loss or anything like this.
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And it s the parent s job to do that at home.
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I don t know.
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It just hit me wrong, as you can tell.
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Well, I ve got my own feelings that are probably very similar, but I don t know that there s any reason to give voice to them.
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Pile on.
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OK, maybe I m being a harsh.
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Yeah, you re so mean to these kids who just lost in the spelling bee.
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And then I m like, it s a spelling bee.
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I do think it s nice if somebody comes out and says, or the judge says, look, you, you were great.
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You man, you got words that I never would ve gotten.
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Congratulations.
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Keep going, man.
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We ll see you next time.
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Something like that.
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Contrived and scripted.
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And thank you.
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Thank you.
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That s thank you.
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You re right.
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It s the scripting of it.
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And it s the, everyone gets it sort of thing.
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Yeah.
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You know, because I m sure there are a couple of kids there, even though they all want to win.
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They re probably like, man, I can t believe I made it this far.
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Well, that s what I was thinking.
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If I missed a word, which I did at spelling bee once, if I missed a word, uh, I wouldn t even be listening to her.
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I d be beating the crap out of myself.
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Why did you miss that?
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I couldn t spell chrysanthemum.
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Oh, man.
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Anyway, I don t know.
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Yeah, that s the one.
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That was the one algorithm.
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No, I missed.
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I missed medicine when I was in the fourth grade and I spelled it with an M-E-D-E-C-I-N-E and everybody laughs at me now.
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But yeah, I just, I knew it.
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I mean, I, you know.
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One of those things.
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I was the leader in the clubhouse too.
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I was, I was destined to win the thing and I knew all the rest of the words.
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I just, I got careless.
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Well, that happens.
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I love watching the spelling bee though.
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And the kids are absolute freaking geniuses when it comes to spelling.
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They know all the stuff.
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It s amazing to see.
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Let s see.
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Let s go topic today.
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Topic today is sales readiness.
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And here s where this discussion is going to lead us today.
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For you personally, you d be thinking about, okay,
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We ve been in a tailwind for 10 years, at least 10 years.
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Some of you have been your whole sales career in a tailwind.
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Some of you listening have never, ever felt a headwind.
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Now I m not saying your job s not hard or you haven t had bad quarters or months or whatever, but generally speaking, we ve been in a tailwind that s died down.
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Now we re kind of got nothing.
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We re just sitting in the sea.
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The wind might start blowing in our faces now.
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And because of that, we ve got what I call sales atrophy has happened.
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We ve lost skill.
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We don t know we ve lost.
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And Bill, you mentioned, maybe we can talk about it.
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Maybe we don t even know skill that we need or whatever.
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So we want to talk about
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how to get yourself sales ready or what sales readiness means to you for the back half of 22 and into 23.
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And this should put you on a plan, on a path to develop new skills, to take inventory of new skills, excuse me, to develop new skills.
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and flex and work old ones from today.
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Because I m just, I m fearful that a lot of people that air quotes think they re really good aren t.
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They re not as good as they think they are.
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And not in an ego way, they just don t know any better.
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Yeah, and I think the, when the terrain changes, the tools have to change.
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And if the terrain is flat and windy at 75 degrees, you bring one set of tools and clothes and apparel.
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If it s, if you re on top of a mountain,
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We ve just got to bring different tools, different skills, different capabilities to the field.
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And there s no shame in it at all.
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It s like, okay, the world has changed.
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I mean, think about, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
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the last two years, we had to get good on virtual, get good at remote, and probably get a little better at writing, because there was a lot more communication done non-verbally or non-physically.
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And so we had to do that.
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And now we re facing something entirely different, which is a slowdown, headwind, tailspin, whatever.
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And we ve got to figure it out, because your competitors might figure it out.
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I m not trying to be scary here, but there are
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people sitting around conference rooms right now trying to figure it out because they were caught blindsided with COVID.
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They were caught behind.
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They had no idea what to do.
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They re not going to be that way this time.
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They re going to be ready.
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And hopefully it s you and not your competitors.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And I think that s an interesting thing.
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And we ve got, I m sure you do too, Bill, a couple of clients that have been doing that.
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So I know they ve been talking about this for several months now.
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And they re the ones that are like attacking their competitors now.
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Luckily, I m on their team, so that s good.
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But we can tell by behavior from the competitive set that that s not going on across the table.
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They re still just la la la, just like, you know, well, you know, still a supply chain, you know.
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Yeah, still good.
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Still got all the orders.
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Boy, if I could if I could find one, I could ship it.
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I could sell something here.
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We could just tell what s going on.
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Yeah.
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So let s talk about the, let s talk about that.
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I think the inventory is a great place to start, is a step back of a skill inventory and think, okay, what are some things as I move into a headwind environment from a tailwind environment that is a skill that I ve either atrophied, lost, or never had that I m gonna need to gain?
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What s a skill that I either atrophied, got weak at, lost, or never had that I m gonna need to pull back out?
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OK, well, I m going to answer this based on the premise that a lot of this slowdown is due to the economy and lowering demand on the part of their customers.
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So we have clients and they have customers and their customers have customers.
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And so what happens is it s one thing to say, well, you know what, $5.50 gas price is really not that big a deal.
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Well, it s not maybe for you, but once it trickles down into the economy and the $30,000 a year person does not buy the new house, and there s a million of those people, then that ripples all the way through the economy.
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So I think we ve got to be cognizant that the slowdown just means a lack of demand.
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And so we ve got to be better at justifying our product.
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And I don t mean justifying in a convincing and persuading mode.
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I just mean that when you re in talking to prospects, their decision to buy or not buy is a little bit tougher than maybe it was during the tailwind days.
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And that s not the tailhook days.
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That s tailwind days.
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Speaking of Top Gun, anyway, go ahead.
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That s right.
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So you re going to have to be a really good explainer of value and justifier of the expense so that they can say, I wasn t going to spend $100,000, but now that I see that if I spend $100,000, I ll make or save $500,000, yeah, this is an easy decision.
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So you re at the helm of that.
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You re at the pivot point of that.
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Yes.
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Yeah, I think it s a segue into the one I was going to say, is that skill-wise, Atrofeeder never had, is being an economic seller, an economic seller.
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So now I m taking Bill s thing out, translating it into money, so that you can make a case or a pitch, or a pitch, again, not in a persuasive way, but
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tell a story that can document economically why it makes sense, because the pool of money starts to shrink in terms of expenditures here.
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And so a CFO is going to be saying, OK, we re tightening back.
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And you see it already.
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You see in technology companies where you re seeing some big layoffs.
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Those are typically coming from a combination of the strategy piece, the guidance for buckling down to save cash.
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That s usually a cash preservation thing.
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Um, and the CFO, um, whose strategy it is to do all those things to make sure the, the, um, what do they call batten down the hatches?
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Do we know what that means?
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Batten down the hatches, sailing term, right?
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Um,
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So you need to get really good at understanding how to sell to a CFO.
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I m not saying you re going to be in the room with a CFO.
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What I m saying is you need to start to take what Bill s saying about, you need to be really good at articulating your value and then translate that into investment money talk.
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I don t think ROI is the way to do that.
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Our friends at Gong, Bill and I did a podcast with Gong.
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They ve got lots of great data.
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One of their data points says that selling with ROI, like ROI calculators, is not a good strategy.
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Sell instead with case study stories, and the other people will extrapolate the ROI.
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Be a good economic seller.
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That s one of mine.
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Yeah, I like that.
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I think it fits just the other side of that coin.
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I also think that as we, let s say we re calling out a CFO in your premise, and do we have to change and alter our message of value a little bit?
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If our message of value used to be it saves time,
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Now, it saves money.
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And can we emphasize?
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So if you ve got a bullet-pointed list of five things that your product, service, engagement does, and economics are at the bottom of that list, maybe it s time to bring that up to the top.
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Because that may be the thing that people are looking to solve, is they ve got a financial issue.
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They ve got costs that are overrun and too high.
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And can I buy from you instead of laying somebody off?
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That s pretty compelling.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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And it could actually be the opposite, where I could buy from you.
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And then I could lay someone off because your tool or your software or your whatever does something to one of my people that I don t need a headcount for and that sort of stuff.
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So those feel funny to a lot of people, but are possible.
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Another skill, I think, and this is a very broad word I m going to say, and then I ll translate it down to some specifics, is the skill of discipline.
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Discipline.
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I think we ve been able to, we had this COVID, work from home, remote work, purposeful, all this stuff, I think can lead to a lack of discipline.
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All that stuff is easy to do with tailwinds, because we re having great meetings.
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But all of a sudden, when things heat up a little bit,
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Your discipline has to change.
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It just does when things get a little bit tougher.
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And by discipline, what I m talking about is looking at your time spent.
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A guy who coaches me, David Meltzer, talks about being a student of your calendar, a daily student of your calendar, and looking at all the things that you re engaging in and doing and asking yourself, should I be doing this?
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Bill, you ve got a great model.
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$100, $1,000, $10,000 an hour work is mission critical, I believe, for you to understand what those things are.
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And this makes some hard choices.
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One of the things we re doing here internally at our firm is looking and saying, okay, we are asking people to make a list of things to say no to that they normally say yes to in the coming environment.
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So normally like, yeah, I d go on that meeting.
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I d take that meeting with that person.
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Yeah, I d work on that deal.
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It s that size or whatever.
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Now we re going, no, we can t, gotta be more disciplined than that.
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We really have to.
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So that s the next one.
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Yeah, I think you hit on something that is also important.
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And that is, I think we have to get our story game right.
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The story game is not just our personal story, but stories of customers who have come to us, who have experienced us, who have transformed because of us.
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And I don t mean you and I, but I mean just listeners.
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But are you sharing those stories?
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Because those stories are another way to sell, to have somebody else talk about you and the value that you bring versus always you.
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And I think stories in these times are going to be paid attention to more than just you showing up.
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up saying, hey, we can save you money.
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I know we can save you money.
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We save one company 12%.
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Instead, tell a story about a company who you helped save and all the details and the emotion and maybe have a testimonial in there.
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I think our story game has to get better.
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I think, personally, that s a skill for the future.
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I think, how long have we been talking about story, Brian?
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We ve been talking about it for seven or eight years.
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I still don t see very many people really getting that.
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I know.
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I know.
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They did or not.
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And I love what you said, too.
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This was a good click for me, even.
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We got to look up the date that we went and spent that time with Bo Eason.
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Remember when we went to Bo s house and sat in his living room working on our stories?
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That s really when we got into storytelling, crafting, and that sort of thing was our work with Bo.
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It s not just your story, though.
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I love what you said there, Bill.
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It s not just, here s the story of my company and me, and that s that.
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It s the ability to tell a story.
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Here s a financial story.
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Here s a client story.
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Here s a story when this bad thing happened.
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Here s a story when a good thing happened.
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Here s a story about onboarding.
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It s the ability to tell a story, not the story.
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It s really, really important.
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It s also missing, right?
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It really is.
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We got to do some more work on that.
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And the story, yeah, we do too.
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And the story always starts with, you know, some kind of dilemma that the person who the story is about has.
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They came to me and they were struggling and they were
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depressed, or they came to me, and they didn t know what to do with their doctor s office and their accounting firm.
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I mean, just what was the dilemma, the presenting dilemma that they had?
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And start your story there.
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I know we re not talking about story here.
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We don t want to get too deep into it.
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But get your story game right.
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Get it better.
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People will hear you and listen to you.
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Yes.
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Amen.
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Last thing I m going to say, I m going to steal Bill s because I know he s going to say it.
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So I guess say it before he does steal it is if you re looking for a skill that you need to develop a skill to develop that might have atrophied is you ve got to get good at the content marketing selling game where those two things come together.
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You ve got to start to get consistent.
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And that s the trick on this whole deal.
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Um, if you ve been waiting in the wings, like, well, I don t need to do, uh, you know, LinkedIn videos cause I m too busy doing deals.
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You hear that guy or gal?
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No, no, you re going to get passed.
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I guarantee you re going to get passed.
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So you ve got to get, again, disciplined back to that and you ve got to get really good at it.
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The only way you get good at it is by doing it over and over and over and over.
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And if you re like me, you will go through
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phases where I hit it hard for a couple of weeks, and then I back off.
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And that s hard, because then it s like working out or anything.
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It s hard to get back on the horse again.
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Because you re like, well, I didn t see any difference between my business when I was doing it or when I wasn t doing it.
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So it s easier not to do it than to do it.
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So I m just not going to do it.
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I mean, that s kind of the.
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the framing that we take that through.
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So it s almost like you just have to commit.
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Don t commit to every day.
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Commit to something once a week.
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I ve got a client who just committed to every Wednesday at noon, they re going to release a video on LinkedIn.
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He s done it for four weeks in a row now.
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And he works on it Tuesday at 3.
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He outlines it.
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Wednesday at noon, he shoots.
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And it s becoming habit.
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Every day is too much.
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If you re not doing anything, to go to every day is just too much.
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But anyway, the point there is that get your content game going because people will recognize that and notice you.
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Yes.
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And what Bill and I have not done in terms of ebb and flow is we ve never ebbed and flowed from the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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We released an episode a week for 15 plus years.
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So there s consistency for you at work.
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And here you are listening.
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Who would have thought?
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Who would have thought?
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Yeah, we d love to hear what you think about this topic, about headwinds and tailwinds and tailspins.
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Is it tailwind or tailspin?
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We don t want a tailspin.
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That s not good.
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No, no, no.
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Tailwind is good.
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Tailspin is bad.
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Let us know on the LinkedIn page.
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If you re not already a LinkedIn group member, go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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And then we d like to hear what you think about this topic, because I think people are starting to sense that the winds are changing.
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Yes.
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Time to sit up straight.
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Time to sit up straight.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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See you next time.
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Bye.
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Bye.