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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill shares some gaffes from the weekend, I ll share why I m wearing sunscreen in the studio, and we ll tackle the decision-making process and some things you ve probably never thought of.
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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I m one of your hosts, Bill Kasky.
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I m Brian Neal.
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And we are happy that you re here.
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Every week, we bring you another episode, a thrilling, exciting, and wisdom-filled episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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If you want to hear more about what we do and how we do it, you can go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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Make sure while you re there, you download the Ultimate Pre-Game, which gets you ready for every call.
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What is riveting?
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I heard that.
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Riveting is a word.
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What does that actually mean?
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I was just thinking that as you were running through the descriptors of our podcast.
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Yeah, riveting.
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Does it mean to rivet?
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I know what a rivet is.
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That s something you put together on an airplane, right?
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They put rivets in a thing.
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But if it s riveting,
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What exactly does that mean?
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It s interesting.
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It s compelling.
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But how does it relate to the rivet?
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Is it a verb descriptor?
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Interesting.
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Never thought of that, did we?
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Well, actually, I ll bet if you hear somebody speak today and you say, you know what?
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That s riveting.
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I bet they re not going to say, what s that mean?
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No, they re not.
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But we don t think the next step down.
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What s the root word of that thing?
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Well, here s some things that I ve realized over the last three days, that there were some gaffes in my life.
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And fortunately, I wasn t the one that made the gaffe.
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But I think you ll enjoy these, because there are four things here that I ve heard people say, that when they say them,
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you think, oh, did you think through this?
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Is this just stream of consciousness?
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So here s one.
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And this came from my wife, who was on a conference call, where one of the technical people was explaining how a program works to one of the non-technical people.
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And the technical person, before he starts to tell the person what it is, he says, look, let me dumb this down for you.
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Oh, he said that to Jim?
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He said that to, no, no, to one of Jane s colleagues who, socioeconomically in the company, at a higher level.
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So let me dumb this down for you, which is a cousin to, here, let me make this simple.
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Don t ever say let me dumb this down for you.
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You can say let me dumb this down for me.
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You can do that all day.
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I need to dumb this down.
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So I m a little slow here.
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Here s another one that I think you should never use.
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And this came up in our political discourse is the idea of comparing anyone or anything to Hitler.
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I think that we should just be rid of the Hitler analogies.
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You re no better than Hitler.
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Hitler, what are you talking about?
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I was in a men s group, and about a month or two ago, one of the guys left.
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And a couple of us said, well, tell us a little bit about why you re leaving.
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And his answer was, kind of surprising, his answer was, well, I need a group that levers me up better.
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Oh, OK.
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Good.
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Now that everyone feels good about themselves, we can carry on without you.
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That s a good one.
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I need a group that levers me up.
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Now, I appreciate the honesty there.
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I love the honesty.
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That s OK.
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There s just a better way to say it.
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And then here s one that I ve heard, and it always drives me kind of nuts.
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And then I heard a national radio host.
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I m not going to say who it is.
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You would know it.
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Let me see if we can t do this.
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Let me see if we can t do this.
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Versus, let me see if we can t do this.
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Let me see if I can t get this on the back of the sheet.
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And the premise there is, well, I know we can t.
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We can t.
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It s pretty easy not to do something.
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That s an interesting one.
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But if you ve heard that before, yeah, of course.
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Let me see if we can t do that.
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Well, let s see if we can t get this fixed for you.
0
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Let s see if we can t get this.
0
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What does that mean?
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Yeah, it doesn t make any sense, does it?
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Let s see if we can get this fixed for you.
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We just stand there and watch it.
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Yeah, it s funny.
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I told you it can t.
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I ve been trying for an hour and a half, and I can t.
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That s the whole point.
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Trying to thread a needle.
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Okay.
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Anyway, so those are some gaps.
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That s a book.
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Bill s Gaps.
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Bill s Gaps.
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And I ve got plenty that I ve said, too, that I try to reel back.
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Hey, topic today is this idea of decision making.
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You know, we hear a lot about it when we are coaching and training our teams and clients.
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And where usually it comes up is, how do I get the prospect to make a decision?
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And there s some kind of, maybe the prospect is not making the decision.
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Maybe they re about ready to make a decision that doesn t favor our client.
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Lots of these discussions about decision.
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And I thought, you know, I don t know.
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I m sure we have at some point discussed the whole concept of how does one make a decision?
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And I think if we pay attention to the human dynamic and the human nature part of decision making, it allows us to be better in front of people, communicate better, and maybe say the things that help them rather than just say the things that we want to have happen.
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Yeah, in our experience, and we were talking about this a little bit in the pre-show, or we weren t, I was thinking it maybe.
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We ll see if we can t talk about that next time.
0
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let s see if we can t squeeze this one in, that we don t spend too much time on this topic.
0
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We spend this time on trying to influence the decision-making process.
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We don t spend any time analyzing what goes into it, what influences it.
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So we ve each come up with a series of criteria or elements of a decision-making process.
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that if you take these and layer them over within your sales process, I think you ll have a much greater awareness of what s going on that will then allow you to do a better job at managing yourself on the other side of it, right?
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But usually, we just tend to say, well, I think, you know,
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Send them an email and do this.
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You re not stepping back.
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Exactly.
0
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So what s going on with them from a psyche standpoint, right?
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
0
SPEAKER_01
We race to the tactics.
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We race to the tactics, always.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so this is a step back exercise.
0
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So if you re in a sales scenario right now that maybe is stalled, stuck, or multiple decision points, and not smooth as you need it to be, dragging out, it could still have momentum dragging out.
0
SPEAKER_01
This would be the applicable tool to do here, to step back with these criteria and say, what s going on here, really?
0
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Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, there s Barry White again.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s the third callback.
0
SPEAKER_00
We got to get a new joke.
0
SPEAKER_01
Need a new joke?
0
SPEAKER_01
We need a little, just a little clip of that music whenever I do that inadvertently.
0
SPEAKER_01
The little soundboard thing on your iPad.
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SPEAKER_01
We need to put a little Barry White.
0
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Oh, yeah.
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OK, the first one I had is the fact or the circumstance that everybody makes a decision that is in congruence with their own self-interest.
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Most of the time, when someone makes a decision, they don t make it for your self-interest as a sales professional.
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They ll say, you know what, I don t really want to buy this, it s not going to help me, but you re such a nice guy, I m going to buy it.
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Maybe sometimes, but rarely.
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Usually it has something to do with their self-interest.
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So if you have not found
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what their self-interest is interested in, or what is part of their self-interest, then your decision-making process in the sales call may languish.
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And it may go into la-la land.
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So are you really getting to what is in their self-interest?
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And maybe we can talk a little bit about how do you find that.
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But that s my number one.
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That s really good.
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And most people look at the business side of that.
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They don t look at the personal side of that.
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What s in the person s, human being s, best interest?
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Here s a very simple one that I think is
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critical that we miss too often, and that is just time horizon.
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SPEAKER_00
So what I mean by time horizon is the influence here is that how many times have you been in a scenario where someone seemed all hot and bothered by some issue they ve got, and you talk, talk, and stuff happens, and it goes away.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, what happened?
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I just had one of those where I had a conversation with a prospective client.
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And it s another division of a current client.
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SPEAKER_00
So I was OK with that.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, a friend of the firm, so to speak.
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And he was like, yeah, he was throwing dates out and stuff.
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SPEAKER_00
And now I m like, what?
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SPEAKER_00
And then it just went away for like a month.
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SPEAKER_00
I m like, what s going on?
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SPEAKER_00
Got back with him, and he s like, I had some budget things come up, so we re looking to put this in the 2018 budget.
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SPEAKER_00
So it went from, I was ready to book a plane ticket for next month, to now we re moving it to 2018.
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SPEAKER_00
And I did a poorer job being assumptive because it s an existing client.
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SPEAKER_00
I sort of thought, well, this is just mechanical, right?
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SPEAKER_00
It s a done deal.
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SPEAKER_00
Done deal.
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SPEAKER_00
And if I would have stepped back and gone, now, hang on a second.
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SPEAKER_00
This time horizon s real quick.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, we re talking me coming out there in three weeks, and it s a lot of money.
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SPEAKER_00
So I would have had a better outcome.
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SPEAKER_00
I would have known better where that was.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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Timerizing.
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So I like that, though, that whole don t be assumptive.
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And don t just assume that if someone s putting those buying signals out, which in our world, it s setting dates.
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That s a pretty severe buying signal, pretty good buying signal.
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That just because they do that doesn t mean anything.
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No.
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That s a good one too.
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I ve got here worldview.
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Oh boy.
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This is getting heavy.
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Worldview.
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And worldview to me is we all have a view of the world and the way I would describe this is if
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If you re a Toyota buyer, and you go into the Toyota dealership to buy a new car or a used car, and there s a Mercedes dealer right next to that Toyota dealer, you kind of slip across that line when nobody s looking.
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SPEAKER_01
You go into the showroom, and you say, man, that is a beautiful S-series or whatever.
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And the salesperson says, hey, I could put you in that car.
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It s about $150,000.
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And you say $150,000, and you say, I would never spend that money on a car.
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SPEAKER_01
And yet the fact is that people do spend that money.
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They do.
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And my point is that if that Mercedes-Benz buyer who s about ready to slice a check for $150,000 goes into the Toyota dealership, sits in a Toyota, he or she may have the same reaction.
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God, why would anybody buy this thing?
1
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Interesting.
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So it just comes from two different worldviews.
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And I think where this applies to decision making is do we really understand the customer s worldview?
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And if we re trying to get them in a, you know, polite way or gentle way to come over to our way of thinking,
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SPEAKER_01
They won t do it if we re just trying to push for the sale.
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I think this is one of the reasons the closing percentages are so low, because we ve really never looked at, well, how does that customer look at the world in a way that, because if they looked at the world the way great customers look at the world, my solution s perfect.
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SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
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SPEAKER_01
But they don t.
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But I keep pressing on my solution, and that s not the real issue.
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SPEAKER_01
That s so good to know.
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I said two personal instances where that s come up, where people, how their worldview has caused them to buy or sell something a certain way.
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that influences that, right?
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One person who s trying to do a friend-to-friend deal kind of goes, because this is the way the person is, kind of goes into sales mode and tries to discount everything.
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I m like, this guy s like a negotiator.
1
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And I m like, I thought we were friends, man.
1
SPEAKER_00
So we re one of those deals.
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SPEAKER_00
Missed the worldview.
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part of that, because his worldview is you negotiate everything.
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That s his worldview.
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And the fact is, I think we can safely make this assumption, is that yours and mine are different.
1
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They may be similar, but in the one area that we re trying to negotiate something, maybe they re dramatically different.
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And they re oftentimes different in different category types.
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Absolutely.
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SPEAKER_01
I could be a premium buyer of a car, but still, I want to shop around for a lamp.
1
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Which I know you do, Bill.
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I know you spend a lot of time bargain shopping for lamps.
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Per the studio, no one can see this.
1
SPEAKER_00
We like the new lamp.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s what I was going to bring up.
1
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Bill and his thrifty lamp View of the world has bought a $5 Lowe s heat lamp that he s put over the desk here.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve got It s called a clamp lamp
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and it clamps on anything.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it s kind of pointing toward you, I noticed.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m going to go see my dermatologist today, check my moles.
1
SPEAKER_00
You won t need to.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re all fine.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re all burned off.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right, what you got?
1
SPEAKER_00
OK, so I m going to combine one here.
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This is kind of a dial thing.
1
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Data versus gut feel.
1
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Data versus gut feel.
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I think good and bad.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s moving to bad.
1
SPEAKER_00
It used to be good.
1
SPEAKER_00
We ve gotten so into database selling that we have ignored gut feel.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so now what salespeople do, and their companies are kind of their own worst enemy here, is they load the salespeople up with all this data.
1
SPEAKER_00
Here s the ROI.
1
SPEAKER_00
Here s the return.
1
SPEAKER_00
Here s the con.
1
SPEAKER_00
Da-da-da-da-da.
1
SPEAKER_00
Data, data, data.
1
SPEAKER_00
Here s the proof.
1
100%.
1
SPEAKER_00
100%.
1
SPEAKER_00
And people don t buy just on data.
1
SPEAKER_00
They take all the data in, and they go,
1
SPEAKER_00
I want that one.
1
SPEAKER_00
I want to feel about this.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m not sure about that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes they have a gut feel about the data.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m not sure I trust the data that I just saw, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
So you have to play to both sides of that equation.
1
SPEAKER_00
And too often, your companies, and I know most of your companies that listen to this are those kind of companies, loading you up with data.
1
SPEAKER_00
You ve got to play to the gut feel side, too.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Now, the data can also make me feel comfortable
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I can look at data and say, you know, I really like this guy.
1
SPEAKER_01
I like that my instincts were right.
1
SPEAKER_01
Then I get the data that s the backup.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I say, oh, my gosh, we just got to get.
1
SPEAKER_01
But if you re using that alone as the primary source of compelling, what s going to really compel somebody to work?
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not.
1
SPEAKER_01
Here is one that I think factors into decision making.
1
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And that is you.
1
SPEAKER_01
You as the sales pro.
1
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And are you guiding that person through the process appropriately and correctly and mechanically right?
1
SPEAKER_01
If you re not, then you can expect them to either not buy or not buy as soon as you want.
1
SPEAKER_01
As you are the guide, we ve always talked about this idea that you re the guide.
1
SPEAKER_01
I have this term that I m coming up with called guidership.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s leadership, but it s about you guiding the prospect through the process.
1
SPEAKER_01
And when you re guiding them, you re not pushing them or pulling them or coercing them.
1
SPEAKER_01
You re really understanding human nature, and you re taking it nice and slow.
1
SPEAKER_01
But every step of the way is kind of mapped out, and they re making constant progress.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because that s what happens a lot when we lose sight of prospects.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they were there, and they were gone, like you described earlier.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
And maybe it was you, and maybe it wasn t.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe there could have been a different guide path, a different flight path, if you will.
1
SPEAKER_01
along the way that helps them get there quicker.
1
SPEAKER_01
Let s just not forget, you have a huge role, you listeners have a huge role in your prospect s decision process.
1
SPEAKER_01
So are you coming up with that, or you already came up with it?
1
SPEAKER_00
It sounds like guidership.
1
SPEAKER_01
I ve used it a few times, thrown it out.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, be careful with that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Make sure no one else has used it.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s a little inside joke for our listeners.
1
SPEAKER_00
We ll leave that one alone Okay, here s uh I got two more, but we re kind of running out of time here.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the tapes about The SD card is very to blow up Creativity creativity is another buying criteria now.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re laughing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Why are you laughing at me?
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you remember the reel-to-reel cassette, or the cassette tape days?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Remember how they used to unwind, and they used to get caught down in the mechanism?
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, totally.
1
SPEAKER_00
You had to peel them back out, and you d take a pencil and spin it back up.
1
SPEAKER_00
Those were the days, weren t they?
1
SPEAKER_00
And you re just hoping it didn t stretch or bend in a bad part, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Twisted one.
1
SPEAKER_00
How do I untwist it?
1
SPEAKER_00
You have to peel it all the way back out with a pencil and spin it around twice, get it all back in, crank it up.
1
SPEAKER_00
We should do a video on that.
1
SPEAKER_00
We should really do a video.
1
SPEAKER_00
OK, sorry.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that s OK.
1
SPEAKER_00
Creativity.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think people make decisions based on the level of creativity that other people show them.
1
SPEAKER_00
And by creativity here, I don t mean you come dressed up in a peacock suit or anything silly or stupid like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t have to be that kind of creativity.
1
SPEAKER_00
But did you see an angle that the buyer didn t see?
1
SPEAKER_00
Right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Too often, the buyers say, here s what we want.
1
SPEAKER_00
We want this.
1
SPEAKER_00
We want a machine.
1
SPEAKER_00
It does that, that, that.
1
SPEAKER_00
So the seller goes, OK, boom.
1
SPEAKER_00
Too often, sellers don t come back and say, you know, I know you said you wanted this, this, this.
1
SPEAKER_00
But there s another thing I think that might be missing here that s a different approach.
1
SPEAKER_00
And let me throw it out to you and see what you think.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think buyers make decisions based on the level of creativity.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think they re more drawn to creative approaches than less.
1
SPEAKER_00
I like that.
1
SPEAKER_01
As long as you do it the way you get it there in a tactful way.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s good.
1
SPEAKER_01
My last one here was, I think at some level, a person asks themselves, and maybe we need a psychotherapist on for this one, is this going to improve or decrease my status?
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
1
SPEAKER_01
What role does the customer s status play when they buy something?
1
SPEAKER_01
And if it costs too much money and they don t see the end result being a boost to their status, then they may say, this is going to decrease my status because I m going to spend $100,000 on this thing and get nothing for it.
1
SPEAKER_01
But if they see that if I spend $100,000, I m going to generate $500,000, I m going to be seen in my industry as some kind of a thought leader.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if the status, what s the status connection with
2
SPEAKER_01
your product, and don t say there s none.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I think even inside the company, there might be status.
2
SPEAKER_00
So true.
2
SPEAKER_00
So true.
2
SPEAKER_00
Everyone s worried about that, aren t they?
2
SPEAKER_00
They say they re not, but they are.
2
SPEAKER_00
They want to see, is this going to elevate me or attract me, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Push me up or push me back.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really, really good.
2
SPEAKER_01
In fact, the more people fight their opinion that they re not affected by it, probably the more they are affected by it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I even contend some people that hire us, some CEOs hire us, because their CEO buddies have a consultant that they work with.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I m a CEO.
2
SPEAKER_00
I better have my consultant.
2
SPEAKER_00
My consultant could be a peer consultant.
2
SPEAKER_00
I really do.
2
SPEAKER_00
I believe they do that as a status thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right, so make sure that you send us a note if you like this episode and want to hear a little bit more about decision or hate this episode and want to never hear it again.
2
SPEAKER_01
We d love to hear your comments.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can send us a voice memo at listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com and we will play your question or comment.
2
SPEAKER_01
and go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_01
Plenty of products there and make sure you download the ultimate pregame too.
2
SPEAKER_01
And wear sunscreen like I do in the studio.
2
SPEAKER_01
We ll take a shot.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think we ll take a shot of this and we ll put it online.
2
SPEAKER_01
Of the clamp lamp?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, we ll take a shot of you underneath it because you do have a tan.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is that from this?
2
SPEAKER_00
Is that a 3,000 watt bulb or 4,000?
2
SPEAKER_00
All right.
2
SPEAKER_00
See you next time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bye.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s funny.