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Today we re talking about something that many think is not sexy.
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Okay, parenting.
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This is something that s particularly interesting to me because I m somebody who wants to have kids.
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I do.
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I want to have kids.
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That s sort of a goal of mine is to have children and try to make them good people so that they can spread love through the world, you know, for the next generation.
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Like, that s inspiring to me.
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Ah, snooze fest, yeah, whatever.
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So, you know, as I m vaguely approaching this time of my life, I m thinking about parenting, I m thinking about
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What being a good parent is, I m thinking about how I should be preparing myself to be a parent one day.
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How can I start now?
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And that s why I m so excited to be talking to Dr. Aliza Pressman today.
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She is a developmental psychologist with nearly two decades of experience working with families and the healthcare providers who care for them.
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Aliza is also the host of the hit podcast, Raising Good Humans.
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She has two teenagers, so she s in the thick of it, when it comes to parenting anyway, and her first book is coming out January 2024, and it s called The Five Principles of Parenting, Your Essential Guide to Raising Good Humans.
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Parenting is a topic that you could truly talk about it forever, but we re gonna scratch the surface today and start thinking about parenting, so.
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I introduce to you, Dr. Pressman.
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Do you think parenting comes intuitively?
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Is it just like a human thing to parent?
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Or do you think that it s something that in order to be good at, you kind of need to research a little bit.
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You kind of need to ask, you know, the older and wiser in your life.
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I m curious how much of it is instinctual and how much of it is learned.
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I mean, you don t waste time.
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I don t waste time.
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We re jumping right in.
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I have thought about this quite a bit.
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And I land in two different places.
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One is, of course,
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some of this is just instinct and it s like our natural way of developing and taking care of our young.
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And like even if you didn t birth an infant, if you re the person in charge of that infant, like things kick in.
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But part of the problem is that some of the things that kick in
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are instinct, they just might be leading you down a path that you don t mean to be going on because you go to the place that your childhood experience brings you to.
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And so for some people, instinct is awesome.
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And for other people, instinct, it s like people that you re attracted to.
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Like, does your gut lead you to someone that says, this is safe, but actually safety for you is a memory of an unsafe home?
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Right.
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So is there instinct?
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Yes.
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And also, like one of the biggest predictors of a positive attachment relationship with your child is to have come to terms with your own experience.
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in that relationship in your early years.
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So you have to be reflective.
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Yeah.
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You know, and so I do think that it s nice to find people that you feel like safe, trusting, that they have, you know, like you just look at them and you just think, you know, and it could be your mother.
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It could be just somebody that you re like, I really like the relationship that you ve developed with your child.
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Tell me a little bit about that.
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So that didn t really answer your question, but it s a little bit about it did well I also think to you know, what works for one parent is not going to work for the next
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Like, do you think that the philosophy on parenting is consistent, you know, just in general for raising all kids?
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Or does one piece of advice not fit all?
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For sure, one piece of advice does not fit all.
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And I, like, I think your ears should always perk up if somebody sounds like it s a religion, like, parenting is a religion.
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I ve noticed that, yeah.
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Right?
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Like, what?
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It s so not.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I think that that s a red flag.
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Like any time where you re going to be a robotic parent because you have so much, you know, like here are all the rigid scripts and all the ways that you should be, because of course it s different.
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It s different between kids.
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Right.
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Like you have one kid with one temperament.
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It s going to be different.
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But I do think there s an overall parenting approach where we have research that suggests there s like one that s a little bit better.
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And it s how you
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interpret it that will be different.
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So there are three styles that people look at in the research.
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There s four.
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One is neglect.
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That is obviously, we re not, we wouldn t be here.
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But the three styles are authoritative, authoritarian, and permissive.
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And it s not like we all fit into exact categories.
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So the way it s looked at is you look at both sensitivity, like the connection, the relationship,
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paying attention to the individual child.
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And the other side of it, which is what s called demandingness, but really you can think of it as like boundaries, limits, control.
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And authoritative parents are kind of balanced on both fronts.
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They re both sensitive, but they also have really appropriate boundaries, clear limits, like you know what to expect.
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And that gives a sense of safety emotionally and a sense of safety physically.
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And it gives you the freedom to be who you are.
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Then there is the other side of each extreme.
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The permissive is super sensitive, loving, delicious, amazing.
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So hard to give boundaries and limits because those parents typically feel like so uncomfortable with their children s discomfort from having a limit that they like bend in whatever direction they need to to make them happy.
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And in doing so,
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In this is typical, it s not always, but typically those kids end up more anxious and more unhappy because you can t always be pleased.
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Well, they don t ever rock.
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Yeah, like you don t feel centered in the same way.
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But you have a connection, and that s wonderful.
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On the other side of it, look at kids whose parents don t give the sensitivity.
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They re like, it s my way or the highway because I said so.
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That s authoritarian.
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And those kids tend to just lie to their parents more because the rules are so rigid.
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that they become, like, great liars.
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So if you know anybody who had really strict... Like, my ex-husband s parents were so strict, and they thought he was so perfect, he was crawling out the fire escape, going out, setting the alarm, like, doing everything that, you know, you could do, and they still have no idea.
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But on the other side of it, you know, so the relationship isn t strong.
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Yep.
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So you kind of have to decide as a parent, well, what am I looking for?
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And then also, what outcomes do I want for my child?
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And like you said, it s going to be different.
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What I think of as what I m hoping for for my kids is going to be presumably different than what you re hoping for, although I m sure there s a baseline of similarity.
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Totally.
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So I would say that s the thing that
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always you could lean on is all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not.
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Like, you could feel and be exactly who you are.
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I m still going to give you boundaries and limits, and that s going to keep you safe.
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And the rest is like, do what you want.
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Yep.
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How do you think the way that you were parented impacts the way that you parent your kids?
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I mean, that s such a loaded question.
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There s so much there, but like,
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I guess, is it like you naturally will take what your parents did with you and recreate that unless you stop the cycle?
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Do we have to be honest with ourselves about what type of parents we had and make an active choice to not be like them?
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Or can we just sort of hope it goes away on its own?
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I think you answered the question in asking the question.
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We repeat what we know unless we re conscious of it.
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Even the act of saying, I don t want to be anything like that is a conscious decision.
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When you come to terms with the experience that you had being parented,
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you re inevitably going to be able to make better choices.
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And there s just so much freedom in not just going on that autopilot, like, I m just going to react exactly like, you know, my mother did to me and her mother did to her.
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But I m actually going to take a moment and think, why am I responding this way?
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And I mean, I still default.
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My default setting is very similar to my parents.
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And I love my parents, and they re amazing.
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You don t want to be like them.
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I don t know.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I love them.
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Yeah.
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But I don t think anyone goes into psychology, particularly this tiny minutia field that I m in, which is developmental psychology.
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which is sort of how you come to be who you are and growth over time and emotional development.
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Like, you re not interested in that because you were around all of the normal, like, things that we think are easy breezy.
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Yeah.
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It s because I was kind of watching just wildly interesting things.
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Yeah.
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When do you think you know you re ready to be a parent?
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Do you think that
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there s a level of understanding you need to have about your own childhood, your own experience with your parents before you re ready to go and be a parent?
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Or do you think that that s something that you sort of learn as you go?
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You know, do you think that it s
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ideal and responsible when possible to kind of have that sorted out beforehand?
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In a dream world, that s exactly what happens.
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In reality, you re kind of born as a parent the day your kids are born, and you re just like,
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in process all the time, but it definitely helps to have thought through this kinds of all these things that you do to think about how you came to be who you are.
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This inevitably makes you more ready, even if you don t feel ready.
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I don t think there s a moment when any of us feels like
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Like, don t you remember the first time you, well, I have no idea, I m gonna make up a scenario that might seem ridiculous, but like, the first time you drew your own bath and poured a glass of wine or something and you re like, I m allowed to do this.
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Like, I m, this is nobody s, I m not being rebellious.
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Like, I m just an adult now.
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That s a weird feeling and I think you still feel that way when you become a parent and you re just like,
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Wait, no, there s nobody like no one s checking my work.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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No, seriously.
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It s just weird.
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But you you start to just you embody it because you have no choice.
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And a really incredible thing happens to your brain.
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So the first three years of life, biggest growth in our brains.
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The next spurt is adolescence.
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And the third one is transition to parenthood.
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And you can be adoptive parent, you can be dad, you can be mom.
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It s not biological, but the brain actually grows the most, it s like the third peak before the decline.
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But it s so wild and it s like the most flexible and motivated you will ever be in your adult life.
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And I think that s so cool.
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No one, I have not heard about that before.
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Except for like spec, like my dad told me.
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He was like, Emma, I am not kidding.
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And he doesn t have the science to back it, right?
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Like he doesn t know about this scientifically.
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He just felt it.
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He was like, when I, the day I became your dad, like my brain changed.
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He was right.
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Like he fully, he was like, I didn t, I could have never predicted it.
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I couldn t understand it.
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And I think the same thing happened for my mom, but you know, my dad is really reflected on that, especially as,
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You know, he s always been sort of this creative, like free spirit, like also, you know, maybe more inward in a way, like more focused on himself and his own creative endeavors.
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But something just switched when I was born.
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And it s interesting to hear that that s actually... It s like biologically true.
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Yes.
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Isn t that crazy?
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And I do think a lot of this field
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You don t have to know the science.
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You ve it s just you re a person and you re like, you feel it.
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I feel this stuff.
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But I think that growth is so motivating.
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And it s also just exciting to know that some change really does happen in the act of the caregiving.
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So you don t have to be ready.
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I mean, it s great to get ready, but it s not like I think you wake up one day, although I do think you re by a lot like I do think there s a moment biologically where you re like,
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It s time.
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I think I could have a baby.
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Yeah, for sure.
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I m not there yet.
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No way.
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Thank God.
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Pivoting to, like, you know, co-parenting.
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Mm-hmm.
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Okay, here s, like, an existential crisis I ve been experiencing recently.
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Tell me.
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It s like, I mean, I m kind of young to be, like, dating with this mindset, but, you know, ultimately, I want to get married and have kids.
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Not the hot, cool thing to do.
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Excuse me, everybody.
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But I- This is rebellious.
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This is rebellious.
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This is punk.
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It s fully punk now to get married and have kids.
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But dating through that lens is so daunting because you re like, all right, not only am I trying to find somebody who I like for various reasons, you re also trying to find somebody who s gonna be a good parent.
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Like a partner.
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That was not in my mind at all for years because I was just too young, it didn t matter.
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And now I m feeling the weight of like, I need to find somebody who
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checks so many boxes, and one of the most important ones being, who s going to be a good parent to my child?
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Because I can do everything right and be an incredible parent.
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Not everything right.
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You never do.
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But I can do almost everything right.
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I can be a really good parent.
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But if the other parent is not, then it s like, this poor child now, you know,
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What a bummer, what a bummer.
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And so I m curious, how do you know someone s a good partner for co-parenting?
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Okay, so a couple of thoughts.
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The first is I think it s so cool to get to that place when love becomes more than attraction and intense excitement and when you re thinking about
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Wait, what is this long-term?
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I think it s a balance of who compliments you.
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And I will say, just to ease anybody s worry, it really only takes one caregiver that makes you feel seen and safe and secure to have positive outcomes for kids.
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So a second one is great, obviously that s even better, but you re not screwed if you only have one.
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That s really promising.
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I mean, I wouldn t look for like a dud.
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We still shouldn t settle.
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But you can really grow resilient, amazing humans with one loving adult in their life.
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But I would say that
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Because I kind of boiled down all this research into five ideas, let s say, principles.
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Relationship, reflection, regulation, rules, and repair.
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Those are the five things that I think we all need to possess and have capacity for in order to do our best in relationships and with our kids.
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So if you re a person, for example, who s really good at
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relationship, connecting, sensitivity, but you feel uncomfortable with rules, maybe you find that partner that s really good at that.
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And I think when you meet someone that is willing to be reflective and that is self-regulated enough to pause before they react.
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Yeah.
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And when you see that they set appropriate boundaries, that they have the kind of rules for themselves and others that keep everyone kind of knowing what to expect and safe.
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And then I think repair is everything because people in relationships and parent-child relationships do not have like a beautiful dance.
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It s messy.
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But when you can come back from it, and this is all in the research,
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It s like how couples repair.
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How do you come back from a dysregulation?
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How do you come back from disrepair?
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How do you come back from a fight?
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I would look at that more than I would look at whether or not you fight because interesting that s when you understand that there s stability in that person or not, you know somebody who has a fight with you and Is like that s it
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That doesn t feel safe.
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The hard feelings part can t be a threat to the overall relationship.
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If it is, that person has to figure out what kind of experience they had in their early years that makes them think that any uncomfortable feelings means this is over.
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So I would probably, after going through all of the things that I just said, I would look at how they come back from the disconnect.
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When I think about, okay, what would I look for in a co-parent, right?
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I think what comes to mind immediately, like this sort of easy answer is like, somebody I get along with perfectly and there s no problems and everything s great and we re just like, you know, we agree
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free on everything and it s like but obviously that s not gonna happen now that just will not happen so you know it s it s sort of comforting to hear that it s like who can you argue
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responsibly with, if you will.
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Totally.
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Yeah.
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When we look at attachment relationships, like secure attachment, if you ve heard any of that stuff, anxious attachment.
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I m very anxiously attached.
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There you go.
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So like when you think about that, what do we look for?
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We look at how, not how a child responds when a parent leaves.
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We look at how the child responds when the parent returns.
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So the relationship isn t being judged by if you re screaming and sad if your parent goes away.
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It s not about that.
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It s really about, do you forgive them when they come back?
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Are you back in?
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Do you reconnect?
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That s the sign of the healthy relationship.
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Interesting.
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And so it s the same thing when we look at repair in adults, like how quickly
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Do we have capacity to come back and make like a bid for reconnection?
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If somebody holds a grudge, if somebody like makes you prove your worthiness, if somebody makes you make up for it because you really did something that hurt them,
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What does that mean for their capacity for repair?
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Because of course you re not going to agree on everything, especially once you have kids.
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Yeah.
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So I would pay such close attention to that because that s the scary stuff.
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It s not when you re getting along.
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It s like, how do we handle?
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And if you don t handle a fight well, or maybe you don t, right?
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Like maybe you re the one who s like, when this happens, I m out.
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Yeah.
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If there is someone that you feel so safe with,
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that you can try the idea of not being out, of believing that actually it was just a fight and it s gonna be, you re gonna have learned from it, you re gonna grow and you re gonna come back together, that s a huge positive sign.
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Like they re bringing out the part of your psyche that s the most healthy.
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Yeah.
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No biggie.
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No biggie.
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So no biggie, good luck everyone.
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Let s pivot to actually
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individual parent and child.
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Okay.
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Your podcast is called Raising Good Humans.
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Give me a little spark notes.
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What is a good human?
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I mean, it s a little bit of a trick, trick name because of course, who would I be to suggest that I know what a good human is?
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But I know we all just know.
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Of course.
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You know, you don t
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necessarily the same answer.
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Yep.
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But we all know that if we sat down right now and wrote down on a piece of paper for five minutes straight, what is a good human?
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we could each circle a few repeated words that just come to mind.
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For sure.
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And that, to me, is the exercise that everybody should do to figure out who they are.
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Who do I want to be?
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What is my center?
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I think the most important thing is that you are integrated, that your insides and your outsides are feeling aligned.
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So that s hard.
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It s hard to believe that your insides are worthy of showing up on the outside.
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So if you can.
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Accomplish that.
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Kind of worthiness for your kid.
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I rarely see bad things come of that, but I, I definitely think raising good humans is about.
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raising whatever you define as a good human and it s really raising good parents.
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Like it s really raising ourselves because kids are going to be who they are.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not like we re controlling them.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s more like can we, you know, water the seed that was planted to become the
2
SPEAKER_00
the flower that s going to bloom the best that it can while being that exact flower.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I try not to say what a good human is.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I get it.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because that s a huge... Because I can t.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because, well, I don t think anyone can.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like there s not one definition.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s not one.
2
SPEAKER_02
But it is true that we all
2
SPEAKER_02
can feel when someone s a good person.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it s like, does that mean that they haven t fucked up?
2
SPEAKER_02
No, but it s like, it is very true that it s something that we feel.
2
SPEAKER_02
When do you think
2
SPEAKER_02
a friendship between a parent and a child is unhealthy.
2
SPEAKER_02
And when do you think it s healthy?
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, it could be totally defined by if the child, like if you re having a blast with your parents and you re like having a fun day and doing all the things you wanna be doing and laughing together and whatever, that s great.
2
SPEAKER_00
The minute it s unhealthy is when, let s say your mother or father turns to you and says, I need you to take care of my emotional needs.
2
SPEAKER_00
Mm, it s like you want to feel like I, the parent, can take care of you, the child, and I can take care of me.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you can share your stuff with me, but I m not going to, it s not that reciprocal, like a best friend, you tell each other your problems, you share, one of you is struggling, you take care of them, the other one s struggling, you take, it s very equal, or it should be.
2
SPEAKER_00
With a child, that would be a red flag to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
If that mother has nobody to turn to except for you, and then you as the child are like, I guess,
2
SPEAKER_00
I have to be the caregiver to this person s emotions.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s when I think friendship takes a turn that is unhealthy.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yes, that makes total sense.
2
SPEAKER_02
So I think if the child feels comfortable to almost treat their parent like a best friend, that s fine.
2
SPEAKER_00
Totally fine.
2
SPEAKER_02
But then it cannot be reciprocated.
2
SPEAKER_00
It just can t be reciprocated.
2
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because how could you set boundaries as the adult?
2
SPEAKER_00
How could you give limits?
2
SPEAKER_00
How could you have rules in any way, shape, or form that keep that child safe if you yourself are dependent on that child to come up with them?
2
SPEAKER_02
I think it would also probably be challenging as a parent to be treating your child like a best friend, and then to have to go and, you know, enforce discipline in some ways.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, how can you discipline a child that you feel like you re best friends with?
2
SPEAKER_02
It s uncomfortable and weird, which I can imagine then causes a parent to not discipline when they should.
2
SPEAKER_02
And speaking of that, you know,
2
SPEAKER_02
What is the right way to discipline a child?
2
SPEAKER_02
Is it being super gentle and being like, you know, whatever?
2
SPEAKER_02
Is it being more explosive?
2
SPEAKER_02
Is it different depending on the child and what they react best to?
2
SPEAKER_02
In general, what have you seen is the best way to discipline a child?
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it goes back to the idea of the all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so there are natural consequences and logical consequences.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like if you are angry at me because, you know, and you re like,
2
SPEAKER_00
I didn t let you keep your iPad.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you re yelling at me.
2
SPEAKER_00
That, I m not disciplining that feeling, but I might say like,
2
SPEAKER_00
when you throw the iPad at me, I m now going to take that iPad and I m gonna put it away because the behavior is not acceptable.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I m okay with you being mad at me.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m not okay with you doing something dangerous with the iPad, so I will be removing it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s a natural and logical consequence, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
But if I said, this is my rule, I m not gonna explain why, and it has nothing to do with the crime,
2
SPEAKER_00
That s not very effective.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I think you can answer almost any discipline question with, did I honor the feeling?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, I see you re really angry right now.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s allowed.
2
SPEAKER_00
And did I explain the behavior that is expected?
2
SPEAKER_00
You can t keep the iPad on, or you can t throw the iPad, or you can t whatever it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then enforce it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, that s what I said.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s predictable.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I told you about it in advance.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then once your child knows, like, oh, I m allowed to have a feeling about this.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s the first part you connect about, like, I m not just blindly
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, I m not just being a tyrant here.
2
SPEAKER_00
I see what you re going through, and I m so sorry about that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And also, I trust that you can get through this feeling of discomfort, because that s part of being a person.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I m still going to take away that iPad.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s just that translates to every single scenario, what party you can go to, what your bedtime is, you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
And of course, as kids get older, you collaborate more with them.
2
SPEAKER_00
You ask them, like, in your ideal world, what time would you go to bed?
2
SPEAKER_00
You re not going to say that to a two-year-old, but you would say that to a 10-year-old.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they might say something that feels
2
SPEAKER_00
totally unreasonable.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then you might have to say, OK, that my job is to make sure that you re safe and healthy.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I can t say 2 a.m.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I see that you want a little bit later of a bedtime.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let s try this and we ll see how it goes.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I think every single discipline issue can be boiled down to all feelings are welcome.
3
SPEAKER_00
all behaviors or not, and I just have to be clear about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
What about the tone of voice?
3
SPEAKER_00
I was just thinking about that, because the thing is, is no, you shouldn t yell all the time, obviously.
3
SPEAKER_00
But yelling, so if I, I don t yell a lot, I m not a yelly person.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, me either.
3
SPEAKER_00
If I yell, my kids would be either terrified or laughing, because they would be so uncomfortable.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
If their dad yells, they don t even hear it.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s a yeller.
3
SPEAKER_00
So they re not scared.
3
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
OK, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s actually more damaging when I yell.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s like the tone ideally doesn t, when you look at your kids, if they re visibly scared, something s going wrong.
3
SPEAKER_00
If they get you, you know, one side of my family is they re very loud immigrants.
3
SPEAKER_00
So, and my grandparents mostly were not speaking English in front of me.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they sounded like they were screaming all the time.
3
SPEAKER_00
Nobody, like no one was scared of them.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right, it was their norm.
3
SPEAKER_00
That was just their norm.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you have to almost look at how people are reacting in the family.
3
SPEAKER_00
If that family s natural cultural norm is just like,
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s fine.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
But at the same time, in another household, that could be really scary.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s super dependent.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s also the kids like there s a there s a scientist that I think divides children up in this way that maybe sounds ridiculous, but it s so beautiful to me.
3
SPEAKER_00
Orchids, dandelions and tulips.
3
SPEAKER_00
He studied orchid kids, and what he wanted to know was, his name s Thomas Boise, and what he wanted to know was, why do some kids thrive in any environment, like a dandelion, and some kids wither, like an orchid, if they re not given the exact sunlight, water, and soil?
3
SPEAKER_00
And what was really interesting is that when they are given the exact sort of support system that they need,
3
SPEAKER_00
They bloom magnificently.
3
SPEAKER_00
And who are those kids?
3
SPEAKER_00
They re mostly artists, creative people, highly sensitive people.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re people who s, you know, might be called thin-skinned, but really you might think of it as like you re just more porous, like you feel the air more.
3
SPEAKER_00
They have higher ear temperatures.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like it s a real thing being a highly sensitive person.
3
SPEAKER_00
So to me, if I m raising a child and I ve got one who s more of a dandelion, who doesn t care if I snap at them and say, like, grab your things.
3
SPEAKER_00
We re going to be late.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I also have an orchid who is going to be like, you hate me.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m better off just like.
3
SPEAKER_00
taking a minute before I say something because they need a little bit more, it s not coddling because they have to learn how to operate in the world.
3
SPEAKER_00
But you re just like slowly, you re patient because you know they just thrive better with a more patient tone.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I think tone of voice matters depending on even the type of child you have.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you have that orchid kid, you need to pay a little bit more attention.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s interesting that, you know, the answer is not, no, you should never yell.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s not a dream voice, but the answer is not you should never yell.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, I m just going to say a word or a term and you tell me your thoughts.
3
SPEAKER_01
Gentle parenting.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think it means different things.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know, that s why I was... It s like inconsistent.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because you could say that it means all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not.
3
SPEAKER_00
that the feelings part of it, that you re seeing your child, you re acknowledging them, you re paying attention, and you re setting boundaries.
3
SPEAKER_00
That could be gentle parenting.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it could also be that gentle parenting is you never set boundaries.
3
SPEAKER_00
So because it s not, there s no one definition, I like to assume, the more generous interpretation, is that what people mean is,
3
SPEAKER_00
we re going to take an approach that is child centered around seeing how the child feels, what s going on, being sensitive, but that will still have boundaries and whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
In which case, like with all things, it s all back to the same authoritative parenting.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s just like mindful parenting, gentle parenting, whatever the popular phrase is.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it s all it means the same thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
We just like go through
3
SPEAKER_00
different ways of talking about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I have a reaction to it, but my reaction is more like, it s so unfair to parents because it s like so vague and it might give the impression that it s about like something just soft to the point of not having boundaries.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then parents are like, am I allowed to have a rule?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, that s why I don t like the word or the term.
3
SPEAKER_01
To me, it feels completely
3
SPEAKER_01
Like it feels, and this might totally be judgmental, but it s like, when I read like gentle parenting, what comes to mind is like spineless parenting.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like having no backbone at all and just being like, ah, you can do whatever.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, and again, that s without doing, that s just my like gut reaction to it.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, but I think that s half the time.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right?
3
SPEAKER_00
I think you re right.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think that is the thing that a lot of,
3
SPEAKER_00
gentle parenting.
3
SPEAKER_00
And again, because it s so vague, you could have one person who s like, no, it s not that it s alongside a spine.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
But the fact is, the name harkens the idea of like, we re not going to have any uncomfortable feelings.
3
SPEAKER_00
This will all be peaceful and calm and easy.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that is ridiculous and unrealistic.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I guess it s one of those things where
3
SPEAKER_00
I would want somebody to define what they mean.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Speaking of dental parenting, to what extent should we protect our kids from, you know, conflict and hurt and even danger at times?
3
SPEAKER_01
And how do you find a balance between
3
SPEAKER_01
kind of sending your kids out and being like, eh, I don t know, and over-protecting them.
3
SPEAKER_01
you don t want to send them into a situation where they re going to be in danger, but also danger is everywhere.
3
SPEAKER_01
So, you know, you have to let your kids go at some point, but you don t want to over protect them.
3
SPEAKER_01
So how do you recommend finding that balance?
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s about resilience.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think if you, of course we want to protect our kids.
3
SPEAKER_00
We want to protect everyone we love from having hard feelings and from experiencing difficult things.
3
SPEAKER_00
But if you don t exercise those muscles and you get thrown into the world of
3
SPEAKER_00
finding out that things can t always go your way, you end up weaker for it because you didn t have the hard experience.
3
SPEAKER_00
So the way you could look at it is, is this a manageable stressor or unmanageable?
3
SPEAKER_00
Will this stretch my child so they can grow or will it break them?
3
SPEAKER_00
If it s going to break them, I got to be there.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s the thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like they re not ready for that.
3
SPEAKER_00
If it s going to stretch them, they re going to be uncomfortable.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re not going to like it.
3
SPEAKER_00
That builds resilience.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that s, like, what I always ask parents is, is what you re asking of your child something that is survivable, but you just don t think that it s fair to have them be uncomfortable?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because that is a terrible message, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, they should know that your adult self isn t like, oh, my God, it s the end of the world.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m going to tell them to give you the part in the play that you didn t get.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, that is a weird message, or I m going to fix the bad grade, or I m going to tell that kid to invite you to the birthday party.
3
SPEAKER_00
Those are normal, shitty things that we have to go through in life.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then the key with our parents is that there are people we can come to and cry and say, that felt horrible, but that they re not going to be like, I can t have you feeling as horrible.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let me fix it.
3
SPEAKER_00
So we have this whole need to fix the hard feelings and then kids don t experience those very challenges that make them resilient.
3
SPEAKER_01
What about when a child wants to go do something dangerous, you know, like they want to put themselves in danger and you know
3
SPEAKER_01
this is risky, like this is not okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or like, this could be risky, it probably won t be, but it could be, because again, anything can be risky.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, my brain can find the risk.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, me too.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m terrible at that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Now that I m an adult, it s like everything feels like a death wish to me.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, what can t I do anymore?
3
SPEAKER_01
Most young people go through a phase where they want to do stuff that s dangerous.
3
SPEAKER_01
They want to go drink with their friends when they re underage.
3
SPEAKER_01
They want to go to this party late at night.
3
SPEAKER_01
They want to go, you know, drive around with their friends when they re not supposed to because they only have a permit, whatever it may be.
3
SPEAKER_01
How do you
4
SPEAKER_01
create boundaries there that keep them safe.
4
SPEAKER_00
But like let them explore a bit.
4
SPEAKER_01
But also let them explore a bit because it s like, my parents were pretty chill about me doing whatever.
4
SPEAKER_01
And as a result, I actually wasn t, I was the least crazy out of the group.
4
SPEAKER_01
My parents were like, go and do whatever you want, but tell us what you re doing and we ll tell you the risks
4
SPEAKER_01
what you do with that information is up to you.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, is that a good way to handle it?
4
SPEAKER_01
Did they nail it or no?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think if it s that until a point, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Like there is a certain point at which the risk is too high.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And your job as a parent is to say like, you can t get into a car with a drunk driver.
4
SPEAKER_00
No.
4
SPEAKER_00
There are certain things that are too risky because your life is in danger.
4
SPEAKER_00
But there s lots of risky stuff that doesn t put your life in danger, that is just going to be a dumb idea.
4
SPEAKER_00
And those things, it is great for parents to be like, here s the thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
If that happens, here s the consequence.
4
SPEAKER_00
And you get to make the choice of whether or not you re going to do it.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think to the point of, you know, reasonable, that s great.
4
SPEAKER_00
We all have a different level of what reasonable is.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I think that, you know, if you don t give your child
4
SPEAKER_01
the freedom to make mistakes and stuff, they re either gonna lie to you or they re gonna be really severely underdeveloped.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s no good outcome if you don t fall on your face a bunch.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I know.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that s just so painful to know, is that you just have to sit there and witness it, you know, offer a glass of water and a hug.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, a glass of water seems very boring.
4
SPEAKER_00
I know.
4
SPEAKER_00
Maybe a little lemonade.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, like maybe we put a little lemonade in there.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s the idea that you can t bubble wrap the world, which is just hard.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that s part of our development as adults.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
That our loved ones can handle difficult experiences knowing that they re going to come out the other side.
4
SPEAKER_00
That is like the biggest gift you can get, which you can only get from experience.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
How do you apologize to your kids?
4
SPEAKER_01
you know, being a parent means making mistakes as a parent.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I really do think that it s about, you know, at least based on my experience, how you remedy the fuck up.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, that s, like at least when it comes to my relationship with my parents, if they ve been able to apologize,
4
SPEAKER_01
in a way that I truly feel is sincere, then, you know.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re back in.
4
SPEAKER_01
Then I m back in.
4
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes, I mean, sometimes it takes some time, but I m curious, what s the most effective way to apologize to your child, and how do you know when an apology is warranted?
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, in the same way that talking about a partner who s able to repair, like you re setting the stage for your child to see that you make mistakes and that you can come back from them.
4
SPEAKER_00
So those apologies really matter so much because when you look at young kids who feel so guilty or like they just blew it, or even a teenager, whatever, or grownups,
4
SPEAKER_00
And you know the ones who weren t apologized to because they feel like the screw up is irreparable and like they hate themselves for it.
4
SPEAKER_00
But if you have a situation where you have to apologize to your child, I think the most important thing to do is kind of I mean, the the biohack of like putting your hand on your heart and just taking a breath and saying like,
4
SPEAKER_00
I screwed up, but I m a good mom, you know?
4
SPEAKER_00
And I m gonna make repairs.
4
SPEAKER_00
It gives you like a little moment of self-compassion.
4
SPEAKER_00
Because when you apologize, I don t want you as the parent to make your child feel like you re just berating yourself over and over.
4
SPEAKER_00
So you can be like, hey, I expect that sometimes I m gonna mess up.
4
SPEAKER_00
This was one of those times.
4
SPEAKER_00
Here s what I did that I wish I hadn t done.
4
SPEAKER_00
Let me know how I can make it right.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, and in the future, here s what I m going to do to do better.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s a, you know, it could be as big as that.
4
SPEAKER_00
It could be as small as letting someone pick the movie and laughing together.
4
SPEAKER_00
And you just kind of know.
4
SPEAKER_00
You just kind of got back.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I do think that the first part of the apology has to be with yourself so that your child recognizes that it s not the end of the world to have to apologize.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s very true.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, I think
4
SPEAKER_01
maybe it can also be sort of damaging if an apology is like an entire event.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because now you feel like it s an event and it s not like, you know, so maybe there is no such thing as like over apologizing.
4
SPEAKER_01
I guess when I think of over apologizing, I think it s when
4
SPEAKER_01
parents apologize for creating boundaries, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Totally, that s different because they didn t need to apologize.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and they shouldn t.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think that is a really good point because it s really hard to apologize for something where you really blew it because you have to then tell yourself what you ve done.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s way easier to say, I m really sorry that you re upset right now because you can t go to the party.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s like a bullshit apology.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, totally.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, but the ones where it s like, I just took your weak, vulnerable spot.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I took advantage of it, and I criticized you for something that I know you have deep shame about.
4
SPEAKER_00
That is very hard to admit, because it really makes you feel
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, you look in the mirror and you re like, who did this?
4
SPEAKER_00
I did this.
4
SPEAKER_00
But you know, like, then we remember we re people.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And we re just going to keep being people.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you think if you apologize along the way that you can create a child who carries no damage from you?
4
SPEAKER_01
Or do you think that it is inevitable that your child will
4
SPEAKER_01
bring some damage with them throughout their life because I swear my parents were fucking amazing.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like I really did have phenomenal parents, but you know, I,
4
SPEAKER_01
have some issues from them for sure we all do it s inevitable yeah i don t think you cannot have that like i because i look at my situation and i m like i don t know how they could have done any better they ve apologized even for everything especially like you know now that i m an adult my parents have apologized for everything i ve brought up i ve figured out
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all the different things that they did and how that impacted me now.
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SPEAKER_01
And they were open and receptive?
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SPEAKER_01
So open, so receptive, so like, you know, my mom apologizes on a weekly basis to me about various things.
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She s like, I just remembered this one thing I did when you were like 12 and I feel so bad.
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It was so mean.
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And I m like, hey, it s all good.
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And I do forgive my parents for every little thing that they ve ever done, but
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I have noticed that certain things have impacted the way that I am in friendships, the way that I am in romantic relationships.
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SPEAKER_01
And that, you know, the apology doesn t change that, right?
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SPEAKER_01
And so now, you know, it s taking a whole nother, you know, I have to go back in and now address that and unlearn that in, you know,
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get to the bottom of that, because now that s sort of become my own philosophy, that now has nothing to do with them anymore, because they ve repaired what they ve done.
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SPEAKER_01
The lingering effects, I have to handle now, you know?
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SPEAKER_00
Well, it is your burden, because it s the life choices that you re going to make.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
So, like, you know, no one gets out of – it would be boring if you just were, like, squeaky perfect and who needs that.
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SPEAKER_00
But it is interesting to be able to say, like, what are you drawn to in romantic relationships?
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And is that aligned with what you would like to be drawn to in romantic relationships?
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And how do you respond?
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SPEAKER_00
Those things do come from early experiences.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, yeah.
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Like, when my parents got divorced, it rattled things a little bit.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
And then, now, I m very anxiously attached because I feel like I can be... The way I internalized that was I m being put on the back burner.
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SPEAKER_01
So then, now, I m super anxiously attached because I m like, I can just be abandoned at any point, you know?
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SPEAKER_01
So that s, so your place that
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SPEAKER_00
you ll work on is believing somebody s there even if they go away for a weekend or don t have dinner or are grumpy about something.
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SPEAKER_00
But then does it also on the other side make you feel, and I will say you re not anxiously attached.
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SPEAKER_00
Because I feel like that just- Well, puts you in a box, it s true.
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SPEAKER_00
It puts you, it really, it sets you up to have all relationships like that.
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SPEAKER_00
But it does sound like your, you know, natural inclination might be to be worried that someone s leaving.
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SPEAKER_00
And so your challenge is to either choose people who are really comfortable making sure you feel safe.
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SPEAKER_00
Because sometimes when you have that tendency, you are attracted to people who are very... I love an avoidant man.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, like what s sexier to somebody with... I m obsessed.
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SPEAKER_00
Right.
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SPEAKER_00
It s terrible.
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SPEAKER_00
And by the way, somebody who s super, super needy would probably be so annoying for you.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I hate that too.
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SPEAKER_00
And you would become avoidant.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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So it s more like how you are in relationship to someone else.
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SPEAKER_00
And so it s finding the fit of someone who doesn t bring out that part.
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SPEAKER_01
That is actually a really phenomenal point because when I have been in situations that were much more secure or even the other person was anxious as well, it s been like, I actually feel like I have secure attachment.
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SPEAKER_01
It s only when I m with somebody who s avoidant that then I am avoidant or I am anxious.
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SPEAKER_01
Right.
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It s like two,
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Psyche s bringing out each other s worst parts.
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And I think the trickiest part about that, which is a conversation for another day, but it s not sexy to be safe.
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SPEAKER_00
So true.
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And so you re 22.
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How are you going to convince your body and your nervous system to be attracted to someone who is safe while at the same time
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That s who you want to partner with.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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Those are two really opposing things.
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And so growing into, especially if you bend anxious in that way, growing into finding sexiness in safety is a hard thing.
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hurdle.
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I know.
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That s like totally my, that s my vibe right now.
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I m trying to, I m trying to love safety.
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SPEAKER_00
Of course.
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And it s really about like finding the person who brings out and who you bring out that sense of safety and finding the sexy and safety.
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SPEAKER_00
And that s just, I remember once someone said to me, that isn t
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sexy or love, it s anxiety.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
And I was so young at the time and I was like, what?
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SPEAKER_00
Anyway, moving right along.
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SPEAKER_00
And then here I am decades later and I remember it because it s hard not to confuse those things.
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SPEAKER_00
But yeah, when you can find two nervous systems that bring out a sense of ease and you don t think of it as boring and lame, you win.
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Back to kids.
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By the way, that was a detour I needed right now.
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More on that after.
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But many kids feel a pressure to become what their parents envision them to be.
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Like, you know, you should get this job.
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You should get married at this age.
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SPEAKER_01
You know, you should do this, you should do that.
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SPEAKER_01
What are your advice for parents on how to not do that?
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and how to let go of those, you know, expectations.
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And what are your advice to kids when it comes to blocking out that noise and doing what you want to do?
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SPEAKER_00
I think for parents and people in general, the people that you love need to know you love them for who they are.
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not a single bit of their accomplishments, not how they look, not how they act, but who they are inside at their core.
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SPEAKER_00
And so if you catch yourself praising and deifying qualities that are about performance,
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Catch yourself so that your kids know that they are loved for who they are and that it doesn t matter that they got 12 trophies or that you aren t invested in whether or not they end up doing this job or going to this college or going to that whatever or marrying that person.
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SPEAKER_00
And we as the parents have to be vigilant about catching ourselves in how we praise and what we pay attention to, not just in our kids, but in other people.
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SPEAKER_00
Because you could be really meticulous about not praising your daughter for how beautiful she is, but then walk around telling everybody else how beautiful they are and looking at all of that stuff and the values get baked in.
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SPEAKER_00
So I think that is part of it, is just what values do you want your children to feel you value?
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SPEAKER_00
if that s a sentence, and just checking in with what you perceive as important.
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SPEAKER_00
And one thing that you can always do with people is do kind of a family mission statement where you kind of say, in this household, we value, and you pick three things.
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SPEAKER_00
And when your kids get to even age four, ask them what they think you value.
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SPEAKER_00
And if there is a misalignment,
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It s a good, it s just information.
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SPEAKER_00
Like if you re like, we value kindness, compassion, and persistence.
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SPEAKER_00
But your kids are like, I think you value hard work, performance, and success.
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SPEAKER_00
No judgment on either of those, but there s a misalignment.
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SPEAKER_00
So figuring out whether or not you or be honest with your kids.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
You know, it s almost worst if you pretend that you don t care about certain things, but you do.
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SPEAKER_00
And then for for young people.
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Resisting
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looking outward for your worth, which is impossible, but it s just a practice.
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SPEAKER_00
It s a practice every day of recognizing and getting the courage up, starting with your parents because they re the people that are not going anywhere, hopefully, of saying, this is who I am and realizing you re still loved.
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SPEAKER_01
As a parent,
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what s the responsible way to enforce boundaries with the internet?
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SPEAKER_01
You know, because it s so, it s such a nightmare.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, my parents kind of let me have free reign, and... Well, it served you.
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SPEAKER_01
It ended up serving you.
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SPEAKER_01
You did well with it.
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SPEAKER_01
I know.
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SPEAKER_01
But that s the exception.
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SPEAKER_01
I know, and I know, and that s, but even with me, psychologically, as much as it literally built a career for me, and you know, I m,
5
SPEAKER_01
obviously beyond grateful for that.
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SPEAKER_01
It also has given me, I mean, there s so much damage that it s also caused.
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SPEAKER_01
What kind of damage do you feel like it s caused?
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SPEAKER_01
Well, I mean, for sure, severe body image issues throughout my whole life.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, since I was like 10, okay?
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SPEAKER_01
I think it makes my anxiety a lot worse.
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SPEAKER_01
I m already an anxious person.
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SPEAKER_01
It definitely exacerbates depression for me, which I also already have.
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SPEAKER_01
Or maybe I, or maybe,
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SPEAKER_00
those are byproducts.
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SPEAKER_01
It could be because I ve been on the internet since I was so young.
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SPEAKER_01
Um, I ve struggled more recently with like kind of OCD like perfectionism in a way that s like not normal.
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SPEAKER_01
Like it s like, okay, we need to not,
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SPEAKER_01
This is like too much, you know?
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SPEAKER_00
All from the internet, or at least made worse by the internet.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think, yeah, it definitely amplifies all of our natural struggles.
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SPEAKER_00
And for girls, of course it s gonna be body image, depression, anxiety.
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SPEAKER_00
That s perfectionism.
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SPEAKER_00
Like you named everything.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
And it s also,
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SPEAKER_00
we re in a post-truth world now.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t even know what s happening right now online.
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SPEAKER_00
I know.
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SPEAKER_00
And I also know what it feels like.
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SPEAKER_00
I will sit for, certainly recently, for so long, I don t know how time has gone by, and I m just watching things, and I can feel my entire body is just basically shaking, and it s so bad.
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SPEAKER_00
Me too, I know.
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SPEAKER_00
And I think about young nervous systems,
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SPEAKER_00
So basically, I think because it s the kind of addictive, tricky mechanism, we have to create certain boundaries.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, I do not allow electronics past 10 in bedrooms, no matter what.
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SPEAKER_00
And that s not an argument we ever have because this is me protecting
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SPEAKER_00
you from what is a reasonable want, which is to just be able to be up all night scrolling with your friends, doing whatever.
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SPEAKER_00
I can t imagine how you could have the self-control with a teenage brain.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, it s all gas, no brakes.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, I m there as a support system for that.
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SPEAKER_00
Yep.
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SPEAKER_00
But unless we re on vacation.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
I think it depends on the individual.
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SPEAKER_00
I think you have to look and see how is your particular teenager managing social media?
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SPEAKER_00
What does their algorithm look like?
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SPEAKER_00
If their algorithm is like a bunch of puppies and bunnies doing funny things, I m not worried about it.
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SPEAKER_00
So I think you can tell by just checking in.
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SPEAKER_00
And you re paying the bills for the most part, so that can be an agreement.
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SPEAKER_00
It s not a sneaky thing.
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SPEAKER_00
It s like, look, I have to know your passwords.
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SPEAKER_00
I m not gonna just spy.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, I m allowed to, but that s not... I m not doing that for fun.
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SPEAKER_00
I m gonna check in every once in a while as a responsible parent.
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SPEAKER_00
If things are looking like there s a problem, we ll figure out a solution.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
If things are looking fine, but mealtime and...
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SPEAKER_00
Sleep time to me are sacred from from screens.
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SPEAKER_01
I think that s reasonable because I don t think you can t I mean again It s like when you when the rules are too strict, it s just the kids end up rebelling and I think with the phone it s like they re gonna feel the effects of being on it too much like Obviously taking the phone away like all together not giving your kid a phone.
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SPEAKER_01
You can t do that.
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SPEAKER_01
It s almost like
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SPEAKER_01
it really socially at this point it s it s they would have no social life it s terrible so it s like you can t not give them you know the phone at all but also they will they will 100% surely have a negative psychological
6
SPEAKER_01
there will be a negative effect if they are overdoing it.
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SPEAKER_01
And it s like, they will feel that.
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SPEAKER_01
And I think if you can warn them of that, I guess that s the best you can do.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, like we have these certain things that are just non-negotiable, and then the rest is, yeah, checking in with, how is this feeling for you?
6
SPEAKER_00
And usually, if you re pointing it out, but you re not accusatory, they can come up with their own realization.
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SPEAKER_00
But they just might need help.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, I feel
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SPEAKER_00
Like, a lot of teenagers find relief in just being forced to have space from all of that.
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SPEAKER_00
Totally.
6
SPEAKER_01
To wrap this up, what is your most unexpected piece of advice for parents?
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SPEAKER_01
Like, a piece of advice that they d be like, oh, really?
6
SPEAKER_01
You know?
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SPEAKER_01
Like, what do you think is sort of a curveball, if you can think of one?
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SPEAKER_00
I think a curve ball is, this is so specific and random, but not arguing with your kids to convince them out of their feelings.
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SPEAKER_00
Like if they feel ugly, telling them why they re beautiful.
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SPEAKER_00
Or if they feel scared, telling them why they shouldn t be scared.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think that that is a very natural thing to want to do, but not what is recommended.
6
SPEAKER_01
That is, like, see, that is exactly what.
6
SPEAKER_01
Was that the kind of curve ball?
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SPEAKER_01
Yes, because, you know, what I think is being brought to my attention for the first time in this conversation is how it s nobody else s place to get in the way of what someone s feeling.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
And I ve recently been handling my emotions differently, personally, just on a personal level, where
6
SPEAKER_01
I m just letting myself feel things fully, feel so sad, so upset, so blah, blah, blah, and I just sit in it and I m like, and I m not trying to change it.
6
SPEAKER_01
And what s been so interesting about it is when I just let myself sit in it, when I come out the other side, I feel truly resolved, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
And you know, my entire life,
6
SPEAKER_01
Before that, it was like every time I d feel uncomfortable, I d just try to find a way to feel comfortable again.
6
SPEAKER_01
And now I m like, no, I m just going to sit in it and I m just going to see what happens, knowing that at some point it will end.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s the key.
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SPEAKER_00
It always does.
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SPEAKER_00
It always does.
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SPEAKER_00
It s like you ve got to believe that.
6
SPEAKER_01
How will you believe it until you go through it?
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SPEAKER_01
But that s a journey that somebody has to go on as an individual.
6
SPEAKER_01
And so when somebody comes in and sort of
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SPEAKER_01
It s almost unfair, in some ways, to come in and say, no.
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SPEAKER_01
You don t feel that way.
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SPEAKER_01
You don t feel that way.
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SPEAKER_01
You should be feeling this way, and here s why.
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SPEAKER_01
Because, you know, you re such a great student, and everything s going so well for you.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s like, don t take away my ability to just be sad right now, and just whatever.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I think that that s so huge with parenting, but also across the board in life.
6
SPEAKER_01
Even with how you parent yourself as an adult.
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SPEAKER_01
You have to learn to sit with every emotion and figure out how you manage it.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I think, you know, when it comes to parenting, it s like, what do you say when your child is upset instead of saying like, oh, don t feel this way.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you validate without changing if that s what it is?
6
SPEAKER_01
Okay, that makes sense.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like you mirror, you almost say back to them like what it sounds like, like let me get this straight.
6
SPEAKER_00
It sounds like you feel really unloved or ugly or scared or whatever.
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SPEAKER_00
Is there any way I can be helpful is a totally reasonable question, but first you have to acknowledge it and let them know.
6
SPEAKER_00
Otherwise, the other risk is that they then have to either convince you so it gets bigger.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, no, here are all, it s like, try to tell somebody who s afraid of flying all the reasonable statistics about why they shouldn t be afraid of flying.
6
SPEAKER_00
A person afraid of flying is gonna be like, I ll one-up you on each one of those things with, you know,
6
SPEAKER_00
whatever, you can t argue with anxiety.
6
SPEAKER_00
An anxious person is going to outwin that argument.
6
SPEAKER_00
A kid feeling a feeling is going to have to lie about their feeling or feel like they can t trust their own feelings unless you validate them and let them have them.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I just think it s important for them to know you can handle it.
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SPEAKER_00
And it s hard.
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SPEAKER_00
It s really hard.
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SPEAKER_00
I mess this up all the time.
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SPEAKER_00
But when you can sit there and not feel total just devastation that your child s experienced, you re showing them that you can handle it.
6
SPEAKER_00
And who wants to, you know, even if you think about friends, like,
6
SPEAKER_00
Who do you want to talk to about your troubles or your sadness?
6
SPEAKER_00
Is it the one who s like?
6
SPEAKER_00
Trying to convince you out of it or is it the one who s just like let this shit out?
6
SPEAKER_00
You re so valid and then eventually let s like I
6
SPEAKER_00
Take off our sweatpants, get outside, and do something that feels good.
6
SPEAKER_00
But first, I m going to let you indulge in this feeling.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m not going to make you feel ashamed of it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Let s just do it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Let s just be there.
6
SPEAKER_00
Those are the people that you re calling on because they can handle it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely true.
6
SPEAKER_00
Amen.
6
SPEAKER_00
Amen.
6
SPEAKER_01
Thank you for coming on.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, thank you for having me.
6
SPEAKER_00
This was so phenomenal.
6
SPEAKER_00
You re so wonderful.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
6
SPEAKER_00
What a thoughtful, cool, awesome, I want to interview you.
6
SPEAKER_00
You should come on my podcast.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes!
6
SPEAKER_00
I ve never had a person who s not, that would be so- I would love that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Because I could ask you so many questions.
6
SPEAKER_00
I would adore that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Okay, I can t wait.