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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, I share details about a music venue bucket list trip all y all must visit, Bill scares me a little bit about my upcoming birthday, and we interview Amit Bendov, founder of sales power tool gong.io.
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Welcome, everybody, back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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You re here every week.
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Happy Monday, people, as we head into the back half of the year.
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We re way past the back half, man.
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I hope so.
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We re almost done, right?
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Monday?
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Oh, Monday.
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So that would be December, right?
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It s birthday month.
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Right.
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You don t get a big birthday.
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Yeah, but you don t know it s a big birthday.
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Is it 4-0?
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Come on.
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Is it 5-0?
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It s not 5-0.
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For a half a second I thought you were serious about 40.
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What is it?
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50.
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Is it really?
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Oh my god, I ve known you since you were a kid.
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You re a child, a mere child.
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I m singing Go Shorty It s Your Birthday.
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It was a little creepy when you came to me when you were 13 wanting a job.
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I thought that was kind of weird.
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I was 27.
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Wow.
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So that s coming up December 11th.
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So it s, what, nine days from when we stayed here?
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A little party.
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Yeah, I ll do a birthday party here.
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Well, I did a, I wanted to, because you re a music guy, I did a bucket list thing this weekend.
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I m a music guy that can t play music.
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No, no, no.
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You have great taste in music, and you re interested in it.
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And most of our listeners know this about both of us, and you are.
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I did a bucket list thing.
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I went to a wonderful place this weekend on Saturday night.
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And this isn t my favorite brand of music, not my favorite genre.
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And I was blown away at how great it was and how enjoyable the experience was.
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Do you know where I went?
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And I kind of gave you a hint because of where my game was.
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Guess where I went on Saturday night.
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And I went to the original.
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That s a second hint.
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Oh, Grand Ole Opry?
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I went to the Grand Ole Opry Saturday night in the original Reardon Auditorium in downtown.
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I love that place.
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That place is great.
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Oh, my gosh, people, if you have never been to the original Grand Ole Opry.
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Now, you have to go during a certain time of year during Christmas.
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Usually, they move it from where Opryland is, the real big place, down to the original church pews.
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like wooden ceiling.
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Just go, even if you can t see an act there, just go see it.
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It s just got pictures.
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It s like a museum.
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It is so great.
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Who d you see there?
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Great.
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Let s see.
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We saw a bunch of people that you don t know, but you know.
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The hosts were, let s see, this woman named Jeannie Seely.
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She s been singing down there since the 60s.
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She was like one of the hosts.
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They have these hosts come out each time.
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It s just neat how they do it.
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And it s a radio show, too.
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Yeah, it is.
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It s really, really great.
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WSB.
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It is.
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It is.
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It s so good.
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And we saw, I keep wanting to say Travis Tripp, but it wasn t Travis Tripp.
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I don t remember.
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Saw a great little group called the Milk Carton Kids.
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Those are two kind of folksy dudes.
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Yeah.
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Really, really fun.
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Some Western singers.
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They had square dancers.
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Oh, the band, what was the band s name?
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I don t know, I forgot.
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The thing I like about Grand Ole Opry is that things keep moving.
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You re not just watching one artist for two and a half hours.
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There s all sorts, it s like a variety show.
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Yeah, it was just so wonderful.
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And the sound, I ve never heard a concert in that, but I bet the sound is incredible.
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It was beyond, it was so, especially with your music, I mean, it was so dialed in.
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And you re just sitting there wondering, how did they get the sound?
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First of all, the acoustics are great, because it was a church.
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And then they ve done it for so long.
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I mean, they are just dialed in.
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They are just absolutely dialed in.
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I bet the sound quality was similar to Baby Shark when I went to Baby Shark.
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Did you ever play the Baby Shark thing?
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Okay, yeah, that s good.
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Grand Ole Opry s a great place.
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It was great.
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So for what that s worth.
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It s also good out at Opryland, too.
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Yeah, it is.
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But it s not the same feel as the hundred-year-old museum that they play in.
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No, it s not.
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Now it s bothering me who I saw.
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I mean, and I was just there.
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How do I forget this?
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Big impression on you, Brian.
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I m telling you what.
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Well, you re 50, so you forget this stuff.
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So what do you get when you re 50?
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Do you get some...
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Maybe our listeners could write in.
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How about our listeners write in?
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Anyone who s 50, what do you do when you re 50?
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Do you get discounts at McDonald s?
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What happens?
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Here s what happens when you re 50.
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And this is a biological thing, and I ve read about this.
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No, seriously.
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A guy named Dr. Arthur, he wrote an article in Atlantic Monthly about, biologically, you will start losing it when you re 50.
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Seriously?
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Yeah.
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And it doesn t mean that you ll be demented and be unable to carry on life.
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It just means that you will start to notice things that used to not bother you at all start to have an impact.
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Really?
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Which means you just have to work that much harder about getting stuff out of your head, writing it down, working out, eating right.
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And so that s when I started to really pay attention to my health was when I hit 50, because I realized that
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I m going to have to work, I m going to have to double down on what s good in case I want to double down on a Dairy Queen occasionally.
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That s good.
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I ll do that.
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You ll notice that.
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I just hired a health coach.
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But don t worry about it.
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No, I m not worried about it.
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Yeah, don t worry about it.
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Yeah, I can t remember her name.
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Yeah, well, she was down at Grand Ole Opry.
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She s a singer.
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I got them all.
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Genie said it.
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Here we go.
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Oh, that s great.
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Yeah, Ricky Skaggs.
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Oh, yeah.
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Ricky Skaggs was great.
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Been around for a long time.
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Charles Esten, who actually was in the show Nashville.
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The young kids know Charles.
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He s a great, really great songwriter, really funny.
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Bill Anderson was one of those.
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Yeah, Bill Anderson s been around forever.
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Forever.
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He came out and hosted.
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He was really great.
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He s got to be 90.
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He has to be.
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Something like that, right?
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Close to 80 or something.
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Drew Baldridge, who s a great young upcoming country singer, has been on there three or four times.
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Mike Snyder, The Square, oh, Restless Heart.
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They re like an 80s country band they played.
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And it s just such a great place.
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I was so happy to be there.
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It was wonderful.
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And what I love about it, you can tell when the performers are genuinely happy to be performing.
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Those country performers, when they perform there, that s special.
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I don t think they earn a lot of money on those things.
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I don t think they re paid a lot.
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Bill Anderson s probably been there for 60 years.
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Brad Paisley used to be down there.
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And he used to say, you know what?
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I do this because I love the venue.
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They do.
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And it s neat.
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We were up in the balcony.
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And you can see backstage.
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And you can see them all lined up.
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You can see them standing there with their guitars waiting to come out because it s not real fancy and not real big.
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There s no room back there.
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It s just really, really great.
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That s my plug.
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So we have a guest today.
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We do.
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His name is Amit Bindof.
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He is CEO, co-founder of Gong.
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And Brian, before we go to the interview, why don t you, we didn t talk about this in the interview, why don t you give the audience, just if they don t know what Gong is, just 30 seconds on what the tool is.
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Yeah, Gong is an application that sales teams and sales managers use to monitor their conversations and gives them feedback on things that they do in the call.
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that allows them to know what works and what doesn t, and literally down to the word.
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And they have dashboards, and they have analytics that will say, you ll hear in the interview some surprising things that I heard, things that we thought mattered that we say do, and things that we don t matter don t, and all this other stuff.
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It s basically so like in my football world, I watch myself on tape.
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It s that for salespeople.
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It s the ability to listen to your calls, listen to your conversations, analyze them with a combination of AI, with artificial intelligence, and some data that suggests that what you say matters because it does.
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So here s our interview with Amit Bindoff, and I hope you enjoy it.
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Today, we are very, very honored and happy to have a, what can I say, friend of the show already, because Amit Bindov is the founder of gong.io.
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And I mentioned in the pre-show, one of my favorite sales tools.
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And Amit, as we prepared for you coming on board and you said, I said, have you heard of our show?
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You said you actually listened to our show.
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So we re already flattered as a guest.
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Thank you so much.
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Well, I m flattered to be here.
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Thank you so much.
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It s a pleasure.
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Yeah, this is good.
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So we wanted to talk today about the future of sales.
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Gong, I ve mentioned before, I m a huge fan.
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Several of my clients use it.
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I ve talked about it on the show before.
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To me, from a coaching standpoint, I don t think there s a better way to develop your skill than to listen to yourself and pay attention to the detail of what you re doing.
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I mean, you don t know, Bill knows, and some of our listeners know that I referee football in the National Football League, and we watch ourself on tape all the time, and that s how we learn.
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I think Gong s a great tool for that.
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So I want to talk about the future of sales skill development.
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So first, from the seat that you sit in, as these tools start to come into our lives, these AI tools, these smart learning tools, tools that can give us feedback, sales enablement tools, as we sit here on the eve of 2020,
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What do you see coming in 2022, 23, that s just going to blow our minds in terms of technology and AI and those sorts of things in the sales function?
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First, correction, I m the co-funder.
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I also have a great partner, the smarter half, Elon, who helped me build the company.
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And we re both dreaming of a future where we re using AI to dramatically transform the sales.
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I ve started a company.
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questions that pertain to running a sales operation.
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For example, why are some people more successful than others?
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Why are we winning some deals?
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Why are we losing some deals?
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And what makes a company successful in the market?
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These are like three fundamental questions that when I asked them, all I got was opinions.
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And there was no shortage of that, but nobody really knew.
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They re just anecdotes.
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And then it dawned on me that we re all fed by indirect input from the customer-facing people.
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They talk with the customer, then they put a bunch of notes in the CRM, and that s how we put some data, and that s how we run reports and make a judgment.
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But when we started, it was like 2016, and I thought,
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You know, we re in an age where AI can beat the world champion in chess.
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And AI can diagnose cancer better than doctors.
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How hard would it be for AI to capture and understand customer reality better than a salesperson?
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That did not make sense to me.
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So that s what we ve started, embarking on this journey.
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And skill development in England was the first pass, first applications.
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But if you think of the future, think of it as this benevolent fly on the wall that just reads customers  emails, listens to calls.
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understands meetings and everything that touches the customer and kind of like captures everything, summarizing information for the leadership team and for the customer facing people without anybody having to lift a finger and create insights that allows the organization to get better.
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So that s the vision and you know, I can t imagine
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people filling in forms and doing manual data entry in 2022.
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That s beautiful.
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You re going to make a lot of friends in the sales world telling them that they don t need to fill out forms or data in 2022.
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I love that.
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I love that.
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We re talking to Amit Bendoff, co-founder of the sales enablement tool and coaching tool, Gong.
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So you ve got lots of data.
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I m curious to know, from the data that you ve collected from Gong, you mentioned the problem, what makes one salesperson successful over another.
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Tell us one thing that your data has shown so far that is crystal clear, that shows if salespeople do this, ask this, say this, they will outperform their peers in the market.
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Oh boy, where do I start?
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So first there s like company specific tips.
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That s what for people that buy the product.
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And then there s like across the board universal stuff.
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So first there is, there is a blog on LinkedIn and like, I think like once a week or every other week, you post some, some data points that are across the company.
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So the last one was on using apologetic language.
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And the data shows that if you use the word sorry or apologize too much, your win rate goes down by 5%.
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So for example, if you say, sorry, our payment terms are net 30, that s actually counterproductive.
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There s only one case that apologetic language actually drives conversion rate up.
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And that s if you re, it s called,
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Tactical apologizing.
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Hey, sorry if that question is like out of order, but what do you think about X, right?
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But things like, sorry, I didn t realize it was a mute, or sorry, our payment terms are not dirty or counterproductive.
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So that s just fresh in my mind.
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Let me give you a couple more, if you d like.
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Yes, please.
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These are great.
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So one of the things that we found, like early on when we started the product, everybody told us, oh, you know, can you start zoning on filler words?
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You know, it s like ums and ums that the salespeople say, and it drives the managers crazy.
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And, you know, they re not
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The data shows that there s like zero correlation between bill awards and win rates.
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Some of the best salespeople use them, some of the worst don t use them.
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So that s a surprising example in the other direction.
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Yes.
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Just don t worry about it.
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It s just a natural way for a mind to find some time to think.
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You know, I say, you know quite a bit or okay.
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I m still doing pretty good.
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And let me give you one more.
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Okay, this is like customer-specific.
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So one of our users is selling a point-of-sale solution for SMBs, like restaurants and stores, and their solution includes an iPad hardware component and an application.
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And with Gone,
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found out that, and it recommended that they talk about their hardware before the software when they present themselves.
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Or maybe it s the other way around, I m not sure.
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And that increased win rate by 15%.
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Now, do you know what s the cool part about this?
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The GOM doesn t really know what hardware is or software and doesn t know anything about their business.
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But it does know one thing.
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It shows when the top reps are doing it this way, it s more successful.
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So that s a very simple change.
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It s very easy to train people on it.
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But you would never be able to get that insight just from units.
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This is the R of AI that can look at facts, data, and find those little nuggets that are very hard to find.
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Hey, Amit, I ve got a question for you.
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That s really, really valuable stuff.
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And we will put the link to the blog in the show notes to the LinkedIn blog.
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So that will be helpful to our listeners.
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It seems to me like the whole essence of this is there s an old saying.
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I don t know if you ve ever heard it before.
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The devil is in the details.
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And to me, it s not the devil.
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It s the margin.
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It s the revenue.
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It s the prosperity is in the details.
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And I know for one of my clients who used your product, it exposed some real problems in the sales process.
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And it was painful, but they fixed them.
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And because they fixed them, they realized quick, quickly, they realized immediate revenue benefit.
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So when a company gets ready to do this, what kind of, and do this meaning implement the Gong solution, which we will have talked about before this, what are some tips that you can give people to kind of get ready?
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Get ready for a little bit of exposure, a little bit of suffering before the windfall.
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Right, that s a great question.
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I think there is like initial hesitance or people are reluctant because it creates like an immediate transparency.
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You become aware of your flaws.
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And I actually had a salesperson that worked for me at a previous company.
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So Amit, I ll be honest, like for the first day or two, this felt slightly uncomfortable.
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But then it completely
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transformed the culture because it was about transparency.
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We could see each other.
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We could, now that we know that nobody s perfect.
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And one of them told me like, would it be better for, for my peers to see my flaws before my prospects do?
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Right.
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So it actually creates a transparency of gone.
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People listen to my calls.
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And, you know, I think overall I m doing pretty good, but not every call that I m doing is like great.
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And on every call, there s almost something that can be done better.
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And, and that, that s a cultural shift.
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Think about like, like athletes and you did, right?
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I mean, that s your world.
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You imagine like sports without game tape, without like finding issues where you can improve without game stats.
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That s what Gong is about, creating that transparency and understanding reality versus perception.
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And you have to be willing, as a professional today, to put yourself in the barrel to say, OK, I m willing to learn.
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Some people aren t.
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A lot of people aren t.
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So I like that kind of willingness to self-inspect.
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And I love the culture shift it brings.
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And obviously, you re a proponent of the Gong solution here.
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But even if not, just to have
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have the culture to say, we are going to self-evaluate here in whatever way, shape, or form, or tool we use, to me, is game-changing.
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Culture shifting, that s great.
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Hey, Amit, question now to the leadership.
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So can you give us a tip or an idea for our sales managers and VPs of sales that listen?
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Whether they use Gong or some other tool or nothing, what do you find the best users from a coaching standpoint are?
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What are the habits of the best?
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sales leaders when it comes to using this information that they get from Gong to help change behavior of salespeople for better performance?
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All right.
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I think that my Sarah Ronald book said people underestimate the power of positive reinforcement.
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And you could use it to use great behaviors and share them with the team.
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and promote them across the board, and compliment people when to do something great, and they ll figure out the rest.
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And if you find areas for improvement, you can do it in a way that is not judgmental or penalizing, but actually looking at the opportunities to improve.
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That s great.
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If you lead by example, I encourage people to find flaws in what I m doing.
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It doesn t matter if I m CEO or I m more senior.
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Everybody can get better.
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And number three is use the power of the team.
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What we found is actually both effective and entertaining culturally is to do peer review.
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You sit together as a team.
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You take a call.
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It doesn t matter.
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You can just record it on your iPhone or whatever and break it down.
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And every time, you quote, unquote, people like one of the team members is the victim, right?
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And everybody would start finding areas for improvement word by word.
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And that s a lot of fun.
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And people know that every time they use their peers to get help.
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You could turn that into a drinking game, couldn t you?
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Like a shot game.
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Awesome, yeah.
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Or do push-ups.
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Push-ups are better than drinking.
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Thank you, Amit.
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Probably true.
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Thank you.
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All right, well, we really appreciate you being on the show today, Amit.
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And I don t know what time it is in Israel.
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Is it middle of the night?
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Now, it s actually pretty early.
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And it s the beginning of my second shift.
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So I usually work.
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When I m here, I usually work late nights anyway.
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OK.
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Well, we appreciate you carving out some time for us.
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This has been really good.
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We ll put the link to your LinkedIn blog in the show notes.
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And hopefully we can have you on again sometime.
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And we really appreciate what you do for the sales profession.
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And I think you ve brought some things up today that we all need to take a good hard look at, which is how transparent are we in our quest for better skills, better professionalism, and better outcomes.
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So thank you.
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Thanks, Bill, Brian.
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It s been a real pleasure.
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Yeah, great.
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Thanks, Amit.
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Well, I hope you enjoyed the interview with Amit.
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We really valued having him on.
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And although we don t endorse formally the product, we are both, we recommend it to our clients.
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And so we really enjoyed having Amit on.
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If you d like to have us come out to your event, to your retreat, we ve got several scheduled here for the first couple of months of 2020.
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You can send us an email, put in the subject line, come see us, send it to listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com and we ll get started, get the ball rolling.
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See you next time.
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Bye.