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There is problem of sort of chasing fame and chasing the wrong kind of fame.
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And I think people should aim for being famous to a small tribe, just like you are just like Art of Charm, right?
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You are extremely famous to the right few thousand people.
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Welcome to the Art of Charm, I m Jordan Harbinger.
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Today we re talking with my friend Clay Abare, who has mastered the art of the introduction.
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You should listen to this show if you want to learn how to introduce yourself in a very effective way, in six words or less, how to tailor your introduction of yourself and your business to the room and the crowd that you re in,
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how to introduce others to one another in an effective way that makes everyone look like a pro, and a technique to ensure that people welcome your introduction on both sides.
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So enjoy this one with Clay Aybarron.
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By the way, if you re new to the show, we d love to send you some top episodes and the AOC toolbox.
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where we discuss things like body language and nonverbal communication, persuasion, networking, negotiation, mentorship, and everything else we teach here at the Art of Charm.
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In the U.S., just text charmed to 33444, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444.
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Everywhere else, go to theartofcharm.com.
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Also at theartofcharm.com slash podcast, you can find the full show notes for this and all previous episodes.
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Alright, here s Clay Ayber.
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Clay, first of all, thanks for coming on the show, man.
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I really appreciate it.
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Thanks for having me, Jordan.
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Thrilled to be here.
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Yeah, I m keen to have you on, because I ve known you for a while, but you were kind of like, just in my Rolodex, in my brain, you were like a crowdfunding guy, but you ve actually done a lot of different things.
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You re a little bit of a business renaissance man, if you will, and I wanted to have you come on and talk about some of the ways that you, first of all, create and achieve goals.
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You know, you re the reason that Minnesota Mondays exist.
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Did you know that?
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I did not know that.
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So the reason that this happened was because at the event where I most recently saw you, you were giving a presentation about networking and, well, it was essentially about how to introduce yourself properly.
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It was less about networking.
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And I thought, wow, this is really cool, but it s not a whole show.
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The whole thing, even the dramatization that you did with Joey Coleman last did,
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I don t know, 15 minutes or something.
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So I thought an explanation would be much shorter, and I thought, I ve got a ton of stuff that s like that, that s not a full show, that s a little tip, that s unrelated to something else that a guest was talking about in a show, and it just seems like miscellaneous.
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sort of potpourri, and I thought, why let this go hit the cutting room floor and go to waste?
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We can do Minnesota Mondays, and we can always have people on, like Clay, that can teach us really discreet skills, which is weird, because now, ironically, it s a full show that we re doing here, because you ve got a lot of other content.
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Yeah, so, we ve got kind of a gateway drug to the art of charm in the form of Minnesota Mondays, in part because of you.
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Confidently introducing yourself, your business, or anyone else,
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is a skill that a lot of people struggle with.
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First of all, even now, people ask me what I do and I m like, oh gosh, there s a lot of considerations, right?
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How long do I want to talk?
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Do I want to tell this person what I do?
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Am I up for a conversation?
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If we re at a dinner party and I talk about being a talk show host and teaching nonverbal communication and everybody else is a consultant, am I wanting this conversation to be about me for the next?
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45 minutes or about the art of charm for the next 45 minutes.
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And also there s a lot of struggle when introducing other people.
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And I hear about this a lot.
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How do I introduce someone else in a classy way?
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How do I tell people what I do in sort of an elevator pitch way that is memorable?
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So I would love to hear about how you develop this.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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It was back in about 2013.
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It was about three or four years ago.
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I was in San Diego.
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I was living in New York at the time, but I was in San Diego at a conference put on by Jim Quick called Superhero U. And it was a really interesting conference.
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I was just attending.
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I wasn t speaking, but there were other interesting attendees.
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And on one of the breaks, you know, he said, Hey, why don t you turn around and introduce yourself to the person behind you?
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And so I did.
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So I turned around and he said, Hey, what s your name?
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And what do you do?
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I introduced myself the way most of us introduce ourselves all the time, which is not in a prepared way, not in a confident or interesting way.
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I sort of rambled on and on and I realized I almost saw myself as I was doing it.
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I m like, well, and I think I covered, you know, where I grew up and my favorite flavor of ice cream.
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And, you know, I just went on and on and on.
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And I realized as I was doing it that it wasn t very confident.
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And so then I said, so what s your name?
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What do you do?
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He said, well, my name is Matt.
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And I said, Oh, that s cool, man.
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You know, what do you do?
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He said, I run a little software company.
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And I said, Well, I m into startups.
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I m into software.
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Like, what is it?
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Maybe I ve heard of it.
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And he said, it s called automatic.
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And in that moment, I sort of realized who I was talking to.
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It was Matt Mullenweg, the founder of automatic and creator of WordPress.
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the software that powers about 30% of the internet.
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So here I am chatting up one of my internet heroes.
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I sort of didn t recognize him because his social profiles aren t, you know, primarily his face and he kind of had longer wet hair that day.
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So it didn t jump out exactly who he was.
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And I felt sort of like Chris Farley in those old SNL skits where he slaps his forehead and said, ah, it s so stupid the way I introduced myself.
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And so I walked away from that interaction
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you know, somewhat embarrassed, not too embarrassed, but just frustrated that why didn t I introduce myself in a strong, confident way?
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So I skipped the next session and got out a piece of paper and just said, what was going through my brain was how do I never do that again?
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How do I never introduce myself that poorly ever again?
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And so like a lot of things that, you know, eventually catch on, it just started as something I wanted to fix for myself and kind of scratch my own itch.
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It took quite a while not to come up with the thing but i didn t say oh this is going to be a thing this is going to be a movement this is going to be a keynote talk i just wanted to fix it for myself so i tried a bunch of different things and tried some different frameworks and eventually about a year later i taught it to a group of startups
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in New York City, a friend of ours named Andy Elwood asked me to come present to a bunch of startups as part of this accelerator program.
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And I said, you know, what do you want me to talk?
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And he s like, whatever, you know, try something new if you want.
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So I taught them how to introduce themselves using this framework.
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And six of the 12 people emailed me independently.
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Andy didn t give out my email, but they found me or Googled me.
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And they said that really
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changed everything in the last couple weeks.
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So I had my kind of idea radar on and said, hey, well if this really impacted six of the 12 people in the room, maybe there s something there.
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So then I codified it a little bit more and worked on different versions of it and taught it at kind of bigger and bigger groups.
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So what is the framework?
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Where do we begin with this?
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Because even if somebody has a relatively simple sounding job, the temptation is to overcomplicate it, right?
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The simple framework is you start with the word I. So this is what you do when typically in a one on one conversation, we get asked, so what do you do about, you know, three times a day?
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So on average, they ve looked at studies and things like that.
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So almost a thousand times a year, we answer the question.
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So what do you do?
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You have to respond with the letter I, but it s not about you.
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It s about who you help and why.
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So the simple framework is I, and then the word help, or some version of the word help, and then who it is you help.
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So who are you helping?
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Are you helping mothers?
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Are you helping entrepreneurs?
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Are you helping men?
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Are you helping whatever?
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What result do you help them achieve?
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It sounds like a lot.
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It sounds kind of complex, but it s very simple.
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So if I m in a room talking about crowdfunding, let s say I m in Brooklyn at a startup fest.
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And someone said, so Clay, what do you do?
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I can use the base formula, the base framework to come up with.
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I help entrepreneurs fund their dreams.
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Now, if you notice that in there, I don t mention Kickstarter.
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I don t mention Indiegogo.
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I don t even say crowdfunding, which is the word that I m sometimes known for.
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And so that could be a lot of things.
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And it breaks a few of the myths about introductions in that they should be complete and they should be totally accurate.
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Our desire to make them complete and accurate is what makes it boring.
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So I help
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whoever it is you help, and then whatever result you help them achieve.
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And that s kind of the base formula.
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There s a few additional riffs on it we can talk about, but that s the base and it s super simple.
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So why the word help?
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Does that fit every scenario?
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I mean, I m sure there s an example that we can think of that isn t that, but why is it always the word help and why?
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No, that s a great question.
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And actually, I start with the word help just because one reason it flips the focus of the what you do from you to who it is that you help.
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But you re 100 percent right.
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The very next sort of layer of the onion is, is help the best verb to describe what you do?
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Because let s pick another mutual friend of ours, Jason Gaynard.
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he connects people, right?
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He connects high level entrepreneurs, you tell people s stories, you help people tell stories, right?
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Or Cal Fussman might say decode, I decode people s stories or things like that.
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So the first thing after the base formula, you re 100% right is, is there a verb better than help to explain what you do?
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Okay, like for me, I could probably use help, but that s if I m talking about the training stuff.
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If I m just talking about the show itself, I could say I speak to or interview or decode is a good one, right?
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That s a really good one.
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I might borrow that one.
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Consider it stolen.
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Tell us then why this is so important.
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I mean, it seems obvious that we don t introduce ourselves well, but why is it so important to be concise?
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What s the danger in being complete like you mentioned?
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That s a great question.
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So in your recent episode with Amy Cuddy, she talked about presence and confidence and the power that that has in an introduction and communication between two people.
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What most of us do is when we even ask that question, we re not even done asking the question.
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So what do you do?
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And because we ve been trained with thousands of responses that someone s going to ramble on and talk about where they grew
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up and it s going to be a 10-minute answer, our brain automatically switches to think about our grocery list or something else.
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By having it be short and sweet and confident, it s actually less about the words and more about the confidence with which you deliver it and the length of it.
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That s why there s no magic to six words.
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It s a fun thing to say and it helps the marketing, but it could be eight words, it could be 10 words, but the point is short and sweet and confident.
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and then interesting you want to aim for confidence and intrigue over complete and accurate and so by doing that it it s kinda like tennis it that s the ball back to them quicker than they expected right there expecting a long rambling answer about your favorite ice cream and everything else instead you say you know what i hope entrepreneurs find their dreams and you actually want them to say you want them to be not completely confused
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But you don t want to give the complete answer because you want them to direct the conversation.
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So to answer your question, why to do it, confidence, intrigue, and then it lets them steer the conversation.
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So when I say, I help entrepreneurs fund their dreams, I get a whole myriad of questions back.
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Sometimes they say, are you a VC?
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Sometimes they say, what kind of entrepreneurs?
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Sometimes they say, what kind of dreams?
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What s great?
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And now we ll teach kind of the next layer of the onion, the next part of the framework is,
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If you want when they say so what does that mean so what do you do the common questions they re gonna come back with you can go further down the bullets and say well i work with kickstarter indiegogo creatives entrepreneurs and you can basically add the more detailed answer the most people say first or the better way that i prefer and the way that i teach people to do it is.
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You sort of pause for a second, you say, well, let me tell you a story.
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So my friend Jordan came to me.
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And then you choose your best story of your favorite person, your favorite client, the favorite transformation that you ve helped achieve.
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And you re not talking about yourself, you re talking about the result you helped someone achieve.
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And then you pause at the end of that interesting, compelling story that s fun to tell.
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And you say, so that s what I do.
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So again, it s not about you, you get to tell what you do through the success story of your clients, which we all know works on the web and testimonials and social proof and all that stuff, but we don t do it very well in person.
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So you can explain what you do really well and very confidently through the story of the people that you help.
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Why do we want them directing the conversation?
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You mentioned that since we re doing this with a little bit of intrigue, it lets them direct the conversation.
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Why is that important?
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So that they re interested in the next step.
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Because if we are reading a seven-page bio, we don t know if they re interested in the next step.
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And so, it s not so much letting them direct it, but it s making it more of a 50-50 conversation, as opposed to a, now I m gonna talk for 10 minutes, and hopefully by the end, you re interested in me, right?
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It makes it more of a 50-50 conversation.
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Gotcha, okay, and you tell the story through the success of your clients.
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How would I do something like that?
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I mean, what would I do if I was just speaking about the show and interviewing folks and things like that?
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How would this look for me?
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Sure, so if we re talking about the show, because I know you do lots of different things with the workshops and stuff, but I decode the lives of interesting people.
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Could be one for Art of Charm, right?
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Actually, one thing I love, you guys already have a great one that I really love, and someone else might want to steal.
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We don t necessarily have all the answers, but we have all the better questions.
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And so you could say, I ask smart people better questions, or I ask interesting people better questions.
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The result you helped them achieve, in your case, I don t think it s your guests, it s your listeners, right?
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Let s back into it.
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So let s say, so what s the result?
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When you guys talk internally about the show and about Out of Charm,
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What do you say is the benefit to your listeners?
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Because I can think of a million, but I imagine you guys have two or three sort of top ones.
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What do you help your listeners achieve?
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Sure, they learn elements of confidence, nonverbal communication, and relationship development, among a million other things, I guess.
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Sure, yeah.
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It s tough to narrow it down.
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It s already tough.
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Yeah, but here s the thing.
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Now we re trying to be complete.
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And that s where we get into kind of the buzzword.
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So one of the rules in this framework is, you know, no buzzwords, no things, but confidence isn t a buzzword.
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How would you group your listeners, right?
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The people that listen to this are very broad.
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They re not all entrepreneurs.
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They re not all men.
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They re, you know, you have a
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broad range, but is there something you would use to classify them?
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The other way you can do this is depending on which room you re in, right?
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So if you re at a conference, let s just say you re at a conference of entrepreneurs.
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You go to conferences like that and you speak at conferences like that.
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You might say in that room,
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we help entrepreneurs.
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Now, Art of Charm has far broader listeners than just entrepreneurs.
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But if you re in that room, so that s another tip is change the context of your intro.
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We already talked about changing the word help to a different verb.
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You can change the word if I say I help entrepreneurs fund their dreams.
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Well, if I m in Brooklyn at a wallet making conference, I say I help creatives fund their dreams, right?
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because they see themselves as creators or makers.
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So it s almost like if you think about sort of like pulling the lever in Vegas and getting three sevens, if you think about this simple intro and changing the word, changing the different word, depending on the context you re in.
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So I help whoever it is you help might be whatever room you re in, whatever room you re talking to.
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If I m in a women s conference and happen to be attending or speaking at a women s conference, I might say I help women get clarity and growth for their business because that s the room I m in, right?
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Customizing it for the context makes it super relevant to the person you re talking to.
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Over the last 17 years, we have launched our fair share of online courses, coaching programs, and finding the right platform has always been a challenge.
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They say if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life.
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But if you re an entrepreneur, you know the hard work that comes with it.
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That s why you need Kajabi.
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Kajabi makes it easy to run your entire online business from one platform so you can focus on what you love, creating.
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The best part, Kajabi doesn t cut into your revenue because everything is owned and controlled by you.
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So keep 100% of what you earn.
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And with Kajabi, you also get robust analytics, easy payment options, email marketing tools, and customizable website templates, all built in.
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If you go to kajabi.com slash charm, that s K-A-J-A-B-I.com slash charm.
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Go to kajabi.com slash charm and join the creators and entrepreneurs who have made over $7 billion.
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Hey, Art of Charm listeners, I m excited to share a new podcast I ve been absolutely binging.
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Winning is an everyday mindset, and Craig Robinson and John Calipari are here to help.
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On Ways to Win podcast, Craig and Coach Cal use their on-court wisdom to solve your off-court problems.
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Whether it s trouble at home or a workplace dilemma, the coaches will help you find a winning formula for success.
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You ll hear from prominent athletes, business leaders, and celebrities who reveal insights that made them into the leaders they are today.
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And don t miss President Obama sharing how he deals with pressure by projecting confidence, believing in your team, and taking criticism.
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Listen to Ways to Win wherever you get your podcasts.
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Now, back to the show.
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That makes a lot of sense because if you are talking with a group of people that think, maybe this guy isn t for me, which is a problem that we suffer from all the time, right?
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Because people will go, I don t need this art of charm thing, I m married.
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And it s like, they haven t looked at anything other than the show title, right?
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Their wife is sitting there like, please take him to your class, right?
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Exactly.
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So we see that a lot, and we see a lot of folks that would reject things like this.
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I mean, I can t tell you how many emails I get from people that are like, their whole life is taking this dramatic turn, and they re asking for advice, and I m like, well, you know, why aren t you getting coaching for this?
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Well, you know, people think I m pretty charming already, and I m like, oh my God, I m so sad for you right now, because,
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If people decide something isn t relevant to them, they are just tuned out.
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It doesn t even matter if it s the perfect solution for them.
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They ve decided that their identity doesn t match the person that you help or the person that you work with.
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They just check out.
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Yeah, bingo, that is spot on.
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And so another tip you can do, this is a super subtle, easy thing to do, which is if you re in one of these conversations, it s pretty easy, right?
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You can see this coming from a few seconds away.
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And so if you re prepared, the simple little trick is you ask them first, you say, Hey, Jordan, so tell me about you.
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What do you do?
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What are you up to?
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And
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You re listening to them and you re understanding their worldview.
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SPEAKER_00
Like you just said people care about we re self-interested So if you can listen to them and understand what they care about the guy might go on and on and on about golf, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
you know a lot more about him and maybe your thing is, you know, we help athletes and other people and Now you ve basically customized your response to their worldview.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m not saying to be you know, tricky or inauthentic But if you ask them first
1
SPEAKER_00
It s impossible in the two or three minutes to not understand kind of the worldview that they re coming from, and then once you get good at this, you can literally just swap out one word to make your introduction more relevant to what they believe in.
1
SPEAKER_03
Right, and there s got to be a little subtle distinction here, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
Because if you re speaking with a group of golfers or a group of women and you say, our group of women golfers, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
and you say, I help female golfers keep their eye on the ball while managing families, or whatever, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
But you don t exclusively specialize in female golfers, it could come across a little bit disingenuous, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I help Fortune 500 companies do this is one thing, but if you re saying, I help parents with young children under 10 this,
2
SPEAKER_01
and then they turn around and see you on the web helping Fortune 500 companies instead, they re kind of like, wait, you don t specialize in parents with small children?
2
SPEAKER_01
What was that all about, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Where do we draw the line between over-tailoring this and being relevant?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s a super, super good question, and I m really glad you asked that.
2
SPEAKER_00
So, you want to go one level below people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes I d say I help people, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
If I say I help people fund their dreams, well, people is every human on the planet, and that s not true, so that s sort of not specific enough.
2
SPEAKER_00
But like you said, it s not just left handed female golfers because that s not who you help.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the simple little diagram you might think of is write people at the top and then write one next level down.
2
SPEAKER_00
Entrepreneurs, creatives, makers, men, women, moms, whatever, whatever room you re in or whatever context based on either the room they re in or what they said.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you re right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Don t go deeper than that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Don t say I help female golfers, et cetera, et cetera.
2
SPEAKER_00
Just say,
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, I help athletes and other people.
2
SPEAKER_00
So now you ve categorized them as an athlete.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let s say it s a female golfer.
2
SPEAKER_00
The higher level than that is athletes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then you can say, you know, athletes and entrepreneurs and other people, but you re leading with the categorical description of them.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s good, right, so we sort of dip in there so their ears perk up, but we don t over-tailor to the point where it would be a reasonable assumption that you specialize only in that specific person and then a negative surprise when you don t.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, bingo.
2
SPEAKER_01
I find a lot of marketers and coaches and consultant wannabes and YouTube life coach guys say things like, well, you know, I specialize in this.
2
SPEAKER_01
or I exclusively work with entrepreneurs that do this, and it becomes kind of like, well, no you don t, you will sell to anybody who has money, and your primary income is Snapchat, and it just comes across as so disingenuous, and I see this at conferences too, where they ll do things like this all the time, where depending on whatever conference they go to, that s their exclusive,
2
SPEAKER_01
specialty, even though they ve never had a client from that and they re just hoping to get one or two, they re over-tailoring it.
2
SPEAKER_01
So if we reasonably expect that that person works with our group and they do, then that s fine.
2
SPEAKER_01
And this is a reasonable belief.
2
SPEAKER_01
If we reasonably believe that they specialize in our group and that s not true, then they ve over-tailored their presentation, right, their introduction.
2
SPEAKER_01
So we need to kind of bounce this off people and see what the perception is.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, practice it and bring it up a level, like we said, not people, that s too broad.
2
SPEAKER_00
But if you say entrepreneurs or athletes or whatever, and then the simple way to kind of solve the problem you re talking about, which I completely agree with and definitely don t want people to over tailor this.
2
SPEAKER_00
If I say, well, I sort of help entrepreneurs and makers and creatives with crowdfunding.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now I ve created this big broad picture, but I know that that person s an entrepreneur, so I put them in bucket number one, but I mentioned two other very broad buckets that obviously encompasses millions of people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s not like I only serve left-handed squash players.
2
SPEAKER_01
If we pull this apart and we kind of do Tarzan speak with it, it basically just says,
2
SPEAKER_01
Help, and then target market, you know, your broader target market, and then specific skill, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So maybe even reverse order.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you help person you re talking to, certain keyword that they re gonna remember, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
They ll all remember crowdfunding, or if they re not techie enough to even know what that is, you would probably zoom out a little bit more, right, and just say fund.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the bigger your brand gets and the more well known you become, what s interesting is you would think that the more you do, the more important you are, the bigger your brand gets, the more words you might need to describe it.
2
SPEAKER_00
But if you look at someone like take like Seth Godin or Gary Vaynerchuk, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes when asked what he does, obviously Seth Godin does a million things.
2
SPEAKER_00
He speaks and writes and everything else.
2
SPEAKER_00
But sometimes when someone says, so what do you do?
2
SPEAKER_00
His response with a wry smile, he says, I notice things.
2
SPEAKER_00
If we use your sort of, if we break it down to the caveman level of grunting, it s I verb noun, I notice things.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that applies to Gary Vaynerchuk as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
If sometimes when people ask Gary what he does, he says, I day trade attention.
2
SPEAKER_01
So somebody large like Gary Vee, in his circles, large for his circles, because I often talk to people who have never heard of some certain person who s just given a huge keynote to a huge group, and it sort of reminds me of how niched down everything really is these days, and he might say that in what his crowd, I day trade attention, and that just builds so much intrigue, because it doesn t totally make sense, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
He can obviously say very confident.
2
SPEAKER_00
Gary says everything pretty confidently, but I think that s something that we can all practice.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I think, yeah, I day trade attention.
2
SPEAKER_00
Who even understands what that means?
2
SPEAKER_00
And of course, the perfect response to that for Gary is if someone says, well, what do you mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
And it opens the door for him to have a longer conversation, a longer explanation.
2
SPEAKER_00
I wanted to touch on something you said, because I think it s really important.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think it d be interesting to the listeners of your show.
2
SPEAKER_00
Fame is relative.
2
SPEAKER_00
You always used to say, yeah, Gary is famous in our little pocket of the universe, but when I lived in Manhattan, right at 42nd and 11th, right in the middle of the best city in the world, two blocks away was my wine guy, and he was our age and plugged into the internet and had a Gmail address, had never heard of Gary Vaynerchuk.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I think sometimes we want the wrong kind of fame.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s people shooting for, there s Kardashian fame, which you don t want.
2
SPEAKER_00
Jason, delete my sex tape.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sorry, continue.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s all right.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don t want Kardashian kind of fame.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want to be famous to the family is one way that Seth Godin put it one time.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s wonderful to be sort of C-list famous and people are shooting for the wrong thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s an interesting study actually.
2
SPEAKER_00
They studied a bunch of high school kids in Buffalo.
2
SPEAKER_00
Buffalo happens to be almost a perfect demographic for like a demographic sample for the country.
2
SPEAKER_00
really, really sad results.
2
SPEAKER_00
All these kids, there were, if you could be any of these careers, what would it be?
2
SPEAKER_00
Navy seal, CEO of a fortune 500 corporation, all these things on down.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the last choice was assistant to a big time top 10 celebrity.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
43% of the kids in high school surveyed just a couple of years ago chose they would rather be an assistant to a celebrity.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I think there is problem of sort of chasing fame and chasing the wrong kind of fame.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think people should,
2
SPEAKER_00
Aim for being famous to a small tribe, just like you are, just like Art of Charm, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
You are extremely famous to the right few thousand people.
2
SPEAKER_00
A good goal would be to become sort of micro-famous, almost like people talk about A-list and B-list, and sometimes that s one way to classify it, but it s almost like we want to be D-list famous.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, Gary Vaynerchuk, like you said, when I used to do a lot more consulting, I met a Fortune 500 CMO who had never heard of Seth Godin, so I think we do need to sort of look around and understand the fishbowl that we re in.
2
SPEAKER_00
and then realize fame is relative and you don t want to shoot for a Kardashian type fame.
2
SPEAKER_01
So what about introducing other people, friends and colleagues in a more interesting way?
2
SPEAKER_01
How do we take this formula and then plug it into our friends and colleagues?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because it s cool when you get introduced by somebody and it sounds awesome, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And it can be a little uncomfortable at first and it s really uncomfortable if they get it wrong.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I m a victim of this all the time because
2
SPEAKER_01
I think people just still refuse to listen, to not judge books by the cover, or, you know, people s emotions, they get in the way of whatever it is that they think you do.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I don t know how many times that you ve been introduced as the Kickstarter guy, and you re like, well, it s not really just that, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And I get introduced as just whatever the person had for breakfast that day.
2
SPEAKER_01
When they were thinking about introducing me, the first thing that came to mind tends to be what I do, and I ve gotten anything from
2
SPEAKER_01
is a dating coach all the way to a YouTube star, and I m like, not really even on YouTube.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s how I think of you, Jordan, as a YouTube star, for sure.
2
SPEAKER_01
YouTube star.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m a karaoke singer on YouTube.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I mean, there s tons of ways where people fail to do their homework, but I think it s also really easy to just be boring.
2
SPEAKER_01
This is my friend Tom, he also works at Deloitte.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you re 100% right.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s the same thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not the same formula, because the six word intro formula doesn t work well at a table full of 12 entrepreneurs.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because if you say, this is clay, he helps entrepreneurs fund their dreams, pause, now you have 10 people staring at you.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s really awkward.
2
SPEAKER_00
So context is really important.
2
SPEAKER_00
When you re introducing a friend, you want it to be longer than the six word intro, you still want to have this concept of relatively short and intriguing, broad enough
2
SPEAKER_00
but specific enough for the people that are there.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it s all about just the tiny bit of preparation.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if you and I were going to an entrepreneur founders dinner like we do, we might just walk on the way there and say, Hey, how would you like me to introduce you?
2
SPEAKER_00
Assuming we may introduce each other, what would you like that to be?
2
SPEAKER_00
And the closer you are to the person, the more you can kind of practice that.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it s just about putting in a little bit of preparation because, you know, sometimes people are launching something and that s what they want to be known for.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if Michael Port, you know, a month before steal the show,
2
SPEAKER_00
he would probably want to be like, well, this is Michael Port, blah, blah, blah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And next month he s dropping a book.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was able to preview it.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s amazing.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s called steal the show, et cetera, et cetera.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it s almost doing that pre-work and talking to the person who might be introducing you and say, you know, how would you want me to do that?
2
SPEAKER_00
The other kind of intro that I think introducing someone else very poorly that gets botched all the time is email introductions.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have kind of an interesting feeling about email introductions.
2
SPEAKER_00
I do them less than people.
3
SPEAKER_00
want, but when I do them, I cleared on both sides, assuming they re sort of people at the same level, I cleared on both sides, I make sure there s context and relevancy, and then I will shoot a YouTube video.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I just take my phone, I go outside, and I say, Hey, Jordan, I want you to meet so and so blah, blah, blah, this, this is the context and why it s useful for you.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then it s a so and so meet Jordan, and he runs the art of charm, which is x, y, z, etc, etc.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it takes one minute to do, you know, our phones are great cameras and have decent enough audio now.
3
SPEAKER_00
And people really feel so taken care of, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
I value the introductions that I make a lot more.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so it s a little harder to jump through.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t just say, oh, I ll introduce anyone to Jordan.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know, you know, there s people who ve asked me to be on Art of Charm, but they re not at the level that they should be on Art of Charm.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I ll filter it that way.
3
SPEAKER_00
If it passes all the filters and it s helpful to both sides, then I like to put in a little more effort and really shoot like a 40 second YouTube video about how cool both sides are.
3
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for listening and supporting the Art of Charm.
3
SPEAKER_01
For a list of all the amazing sponsors and discount codes, visit theartofcharm.com slash advertisers.
3
SPEAKER_01
Now, back to the show.
3
SPEAKER_01
When you say clear it on both sides, you mean get the permission, we call it the double opt-in, right, where I m like, hey, Seth, can I introduce you to Clay?
3
SPEAKER_01
Clay, do you mind me introducing you to Seth?
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s like, oh yeah, sure, go ahead.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we talked about that, and we talk about that on our social capital program as well as on other shows where it just, it makes sure that you don t embarrass yourself introducing people that already know each other or introducing people
3
SPEAKER_01
that maybe are avoiding each other for some reason, or one person s super keen on meeting the other, and the other person doesn t want to deal with any new introductions, or specifically with that person, there s all kinds of things you can get out of the way by simply asking both parties first.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then you go and do, why the YouTube introduction?
3
SPEAKER_01
Why not just an email?
3
SPEAKER_01
I m thinking, when I get those SoundCloud intros from mutual friends, I m like, ah, okay, I ve gotta open up SoundCloud, and I ve gotta go and turn my volume up.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m at dinner, so I can t deal with this right now.
3
SPEAKER_01
Not that I should be on my phone during dinner, I guess you got me on that one, but it s like something I gotta deal with.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s a great question.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so to clarify, I write it in a way, I don t just say, you know, intro and link the YouTube video or just paste in an ugly YouTube link.
3
SPEAKER_00
I put enough text in the email introduction that if you did open it offline in the subway, you would still get the context.
3
SPEAKER_00
And typically, there s, you know, one person is reaching out.
3
SPEAKER_00
So at least half the people have asked for the introduction, and then I ve cleared it on the other side.
3
SPEAKER_00
Part of it is because when I cleared on the other side, if someone wants to meet you,
3
SPEAKER_00
I clear it with you in clearing it with you I will have already explained and introduced who they are a little bit to let you make a decision so the YouTube video comes in a little bit later in the process right and both people have pretty much opted in like you said the other thing is it just like I said I do some intros without the YouTube video but for instance I was introducing Todd Herman to Scott Hoffman a literary agent and
3
SPEAKER_00
And they re both big, important people and people I really like and admire and good friends.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so I wanted to spend that extra little bit of time to walk outside my backyard and do the YouTube video.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think people appreciate it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s easier to sort of gush and brag up a person in video.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know how email doesn t have the nuance.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s hard to do nuance.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s hard to do sarcasm.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s hard to do show emotions.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can sort of show how excited I am to introduce those two people.
3
SPEAKER_01
I like it, I don t wanna use it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m gonna be one of those guys and respectfully disagree with you here, because I can read so much faster than I can watch a video or listen to something, and I appreciate the videos and the soundbites, but I just, I don t like them as much in the moment.
3
SPEAKER_01
Does that make sense?
3
SPEAKER_01
It s more effort, and I go, wow, thanks.
3
SPEAKER_01
I really owe you for that.
3
SPEAKER_01
So there s more gravitas to the introduction, for sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
I will not argue with that.
3
SPEAKER_01
But in the moment, I m like, can you just friggin  tell me who this person is so I can reply?
3
SPEAKER_01
But I probably should take more time with that stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think it depends on how often you get them.
3
SPEAKER_01
If you get them once in a while, and it s a really big deal intro, then it s worth it.
3
SPEAKER_01
But if you get one for every single person that you re supposed to meet, it s just like, okay, for Christ s sake, just put it on paper.
3
SPEAKER_01
I understand.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s not the utmost efficient.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not the ninja most efficient bang through to inbox zero for sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you got to be selective, like you said about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I probably do maybe one a week and it takes, you know, five minutes or so of that level of introduction, introducing sort of high level people.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then other intros are, like you said, just shoot off an email.
3
SPEAKER_00
And sometimes it s tagged them both on Facebook or Twitter.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s different ways to bring it in.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s actually an interesting little thing that we can link up in the show notes if you want a little hack that I found.
3
SPEAKER_00
you can figure out who are the mutual friends of two different people on Facebook, even if those two people are not friends or you re not friends with either of them.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I could go see how many mutual friends you and Barack Obama have in common right now on Facebook with this little search string.
3
SPEAKER_00
So.
3
SPEAKER_00
Really?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s kind of cool.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I m definitely gonna want that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I actually want to run that particular search and see if I have mutual friends with Barack Obama.
3
SPEAKER_00
Probably just me, Jordan.
3
SPEAKER_01
Are you friends with Barack Obama on Facebook?
3
SPEAKER_01
That would be incredible though, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
There s a story there for sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
What about the text intro?
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve seen this cropping up more and more and more where people are like, yeah, introduce us via text.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re already texting and then one person just slides over and starts a new iMessage or whatever thread with my phone number and that person s as well.
3
SPEAKER_01
The text intro, how do you feel about that?
3
SPEAKER_01
Is that something you take part in?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because I feel like younger folks are doing a lot more of that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think you re 100% right with the younger folks, like everyone s got their own priority of channels.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think, well, each human is different.
3
SPEAKER_00
There are some sort of demographic swaths.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I do think that, you know, a 19 year old right now, their primary mode is probably their text or Snapchat.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so I think a text intro, if it s somebody where if those two people were sort of inevitably going to collide pretty soon, they have 50 mutual Facebook friends, it s almost like an intro that was bound to happen anyway.
3
SPEAKER_00
And again, if it s kind of cleared on both sides, and there s the context, if you want to go for efficiency, you know, a text intro could be the thing, especially if
3
SPEAKER_00
They say, you know what, I really want to hop on a phone call with that person or whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
The thing about it s kind of like if we could magically teach everyone the protocol and etiquette for this stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
The problem with a group text is then people continue to reply back to each other in this group text.
3
SPEAKER_00
And your phone keeps buzzing, even though you just generously made the intro and then wanted to bow out.
3
SPEAKER_00
And now 47 text messages later, you re like, hey, guys, get your own room.
3
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right, yeah, get a room.
3
SPEAKER_01
There also has to be, in those types of introductions, those have to be people who are very, very cool with having their phone number out there, because I don t want people texting me, because I m super accessible via email, I m super accessible via the internet in general, so texting is for like, like if you text me, cool, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
If Jason texts me, cool.
3
SPEAKER_01
If somebody that I don t have their number texts me, it s just like, who gave this to you?
3
SPEAKER_01
who gave you this number.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve had to say things like, hey, I don t want this out there, because I ve had my number for 15 years, and now I m running this type of show on the internet and talking with people who are not so controversial, but I have access to a lot of thought leaders and stuff like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t want people reaching out to me at three o clock in the morning asking me for anything, unless it s an emergency.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know you, it s not an emergency.
3
SPEAKER_01
You have to be very, very careful.
3
SPEAKER_01
This isn t just the double opt-in where you get permission to email somebody and they can ignore you.
3
SPEAKER_01
This has to be very clear that you are going to introduce somebody by text because a lot of times somebody might say, sure, introduce us, and then you get a text with both and you re like, crap, this guy s got my phone number now?
3
SPEAKER_01
I didn t authorize that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I guess I did by accident, but I wasn t explicit.
3
SPEAKER_01
If somebody asks you, can they introduce you to somebody, it might even pay to say, by email, yes, and then just type in your email address so they don t have to look it up.
3
SPEAKER_01
That way they know not to do it in another way.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you re 100% right.
3
SPEAKER_00
And if you look at your phone and look at the last 50 people that you ve text with, I almost guarantee 30 of them are probably 30 of your 50 closest friends, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
You may have 20 other in there about picking something up or whatever, but in general, the people we re closest with, we text with,
3
SPEAKER_00
to inject a stranger into someone else s text messages without permission is definitely a rookie move, like you said.
3
SPEAKER_01
Not to mention, I think a lot of us think that texting in introduction is more professional.
3
SPEAKER_01
It should only be done, in my opinion, it should only be done when something is timely.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, we re all at this conference today.
3
SPEAKER_01
Do you mind if I add us all to a thread and text messages?
3
SPEAKER_01
In fact, I know a lot of
3
SPEAKER_01
times when I go to a conference with a bunch of our mutual friends and things like that, we open up, Chris Brogan or somebody like that will open up a WhatsApp chat, where I think their phone numbers are in there, but it s easy to leave the group, you can delete the group after the conference is over, it doesn t really matter, there s not this weird,
3
SPEAKER_01
ghost thread with 12 people on it that you re not hanging out with that week anymore, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
You use it to coordinate lunch and stuff like that, and I think everybody writes differently in text than they speak, almost everybody.
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So it can be a little dangerous when it s like, yeah, I ll introduce you, and then you re introducing somebody to their future employer, and their first response is, who are you?
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But it s just the are and the you.
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and then there s a weird emoji, like the 100, which I still don t really know what that means.
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It just looks kind of like, oh, you make this bad first impression based on not a whole lot.
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You can t proofread it.
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If it goes out or you mistype something, you re kind of out of luck, whereas with Gmail, there s an unsend button, at least in a lot of email clients, and you re gonna proofread it and spellcheck it.
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to do that way, so don t use the text intro unless it s something that s very timely and you have explicit double opt-in permission to use phone numbers to do it.
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I think that s something that nobody s really talked about because I feel like I just made up those rules in the last year or so of getting text intro d to people that I now have to like tell to stop texting me at 1 a.m.
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And using the technology and using the apps in a smart way, like you said, like Chris Brogan does, or spinning up a WhatsApp group for an event like Free App Mastermind Talks and you want to coordinate a lunch or things like that, that s really smart.
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Because like you said, the app itself sort of creates that opt-in where the text message doesn t.
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If somebody really, you know, they can see your phone number and it s visible, but you re communicating through this secondary layer.
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And then, like you said, when you leave, if you want to disconnect, you just delete the app or leave the conversation and you re good to go.
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So I think
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It s about being courteous enough to use the technology in a way that protects people.
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And it s kind of, let s go back to like the golden rule, but the same people who are the offenders of this text message thing would hate if it happened to them.
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So just think for two seconds and say, is this how I would want someone to introduce me or communicate with me?
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And that s usually a good thing.
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But yeah, use the technology that s available to us to be generous to everybody.
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We are gonna link to your book, The Perfect Intro, How to Confidently Introduce Yourself, Your Business, or Anyone Else in Six Words or Less.
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That s gonna be in the show notes as well, and you can get those by clicking on the screen of your phone or going to the website at theartofcharm.com slash podcast.
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I had a blast, Jordan, and look forward to going live.
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Awesome, thanks, man.
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Thank you.
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We ll talk to you soon.
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Take care, bye.
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This is really good stuff.
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We ve talked about intros before.
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We have, of course, a whole module on introductions in our Social Capital course as well here at the Art of Charm, but really introducing other people, introducing yourself, and introducing people to one another.
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This is something you re going to do in your personal life, and especially, of course, in your business.
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It s gonna happen in your professional life no matter what.
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whether or not you own your own business or you work for the man, so to speak.
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So this stuff is all going to be super useful.
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It kind of eliminates a lot of the faux pas that I think a lot of people are struggling with, especially in the day and age of internet introduction.
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So this is super, super helpful.
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Thanks to Clay for that.
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And if you enjoyed this, don t forget to thank Clay on Twitter.
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We ll have that linked in the show notes as well as his book that we mentioned on the show.
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You can tap the album art right on your phone,
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a cartoony picture of AJ and myself to get the show notes for this episode, and we ll link to the show notes right on your phone.
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I m also on Twitter, at theartofcharm.
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It s a great way to engage with us, ask us questions, harass us remotely via the web, and also bootcamp and live program details at bootcamp.theartofcharm.com.
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I m also on Twitter, at The Art of Charm.
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It s a great way to engage with me and producer Jason there, ask us questions or give us your feedback on the show.
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Our live program details for The Art of Charm live seminars are bootcamps, that s at bootcamp.theartofcharm.com.
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And please remember, we sell out a few months in advance, so.
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If you re even thinking about it a little bit, get in touch ASAP.
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We ll get some info to you.
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You can plan ahead.
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And don t forget, of course, our social capital challenge at theartofcharm.com slash challenge or in the United States, text charmed to 33444.
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That s C-H-A-R-M-E-D to 33444.
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This is all about improving your networking and connection skills and inspiring those around you to develop a personal and professional relationship with you.
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We ll also email you the Fundamentals Toolbox that I mentioned earlier on the show and videos with drills and exercises to help you move forward.
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I m doing those every week.
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This will make you a better networker, it ll make you a better connector, and it ll make you a better thinker.
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That s theartofcharm.com slash challenge or text charmed here in the US to 33444.
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For the full show notes for this and all previous episodes, head over to theartofcharm.com slash podcast.
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This episode of The Art of Charm was produced by Jason DeFillippo.
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Jason Sanderson is our audio engineer and editor.
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Show notes on the website are by Robert Fogerty.
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I m your host, Jordan Harbinger.
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Go ahead, tell your friends, because the greatest compliment you can give us is a referral to someone else either in person or shared on the web.
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So stay charming and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to the Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and more at theartofcharmpodcast.com.