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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we take a stab at our first ASMR audio recording, Bill avoids patronizing me with my pint-sized vocabulary, and we tackle a client-inspired topic, how to handle it when you lose to a coin toss.
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Hey everybody, welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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I got you, didn t I?
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You did, we were racing from the beginning to the opening.
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I know, but when I say Mark, I m on.
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The Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast, podcast history.
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We come to you every Monday morning.
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and we try to bring you things that are interesting, compelling, and sometimes even funny.
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Today s podcast brought to you by Panda Doc.
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If you need help in creating beautiful sales proposals, visit pandadoc.com slash ASP to learn more, and Outreach.
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If you want to make your team a revenue driving machine, then go to outreach.io forward slash ASP to learn more about them.
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If you have not
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joined our LinkedIn group.
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You can go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn, takes you right there.
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We ve got over 10,000 people that inspire us to have really good conversations on that platform.
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So if you are not a group member yet, what are you waiting for?
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Yeah, there s no reason to wait, no.
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And I put a little note.
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We were out and about on the road.
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We re taking the podcast on the road, and we re bouncing around the country.
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And we d love to come see you.
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You can shoot us a note, an email, listeneradvancesellingpodcast.com, and put in the subject line, come see us.
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We ve got several of those also pending, which is fun.
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We were on the road, though, and we put a little note up there in the group.
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And we re going to start putting more stuff in the group.
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I m kind of compelled to put stuff up in the group.
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for our 10,200 members that are there.
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And tell all your friends.
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It s amazing.
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We ve never promoted the show.
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So we ve never gone out and done Google AdWords or paid search or anything like that.
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It s all been organic, which is really fun and neat.
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I love that.
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And it s amazing.
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We still get messages every week.
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Hey, just found you.
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And then people binge listen from the 1800s, because that s when we started the podcast, back in 1869, just after the Civil War.
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Was that?
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Is that right after this I m not a good history.
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Well my grandfather used to love podcasts
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Uh, we got seriously though.
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When was the civil war?
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I, I know I m going to catch so much hell for the 18 sixties ish.
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Do you want an exact date?
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You want to know now where the cubs in the world series in the civil war?
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Where s the early, where they, was that their last, the last time before the second, before the last, except for what s his name?
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How d we get on the cubs and civil war?
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What s the guy s name that missed the, don t say his name.
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He s got his own podcast.
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It s just him screaming.
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He s getting,
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The crap beat out of him Well, we got shamed a little bit when we were down in North Carolina doing our gig for this awesome client We had a great time and some people found out we were down there I don t know if you saw the LinkedIn feed and said why didn t you tell us one guy said I could have had a hundred people Show up at if we had gotten there on Sunday night and told him about it He would have had people but we need to do that next time is next time.
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We re out is tricky.
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Yeah, it is a
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It s tough with travel, but we should have made that happen.
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Yeah, and our friends do.
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You know, I did that several years ago over in London, and I had like 20 people show up at the Intercontinental Heathrow.
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So yeah, we ll do that.
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That s a pledge.
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Next time Bill and I are on the road, we ll tell the listeners about it, put it up in the LinkedIn group.
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And if you can do a little gig, we ll do a gig with you.
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That d be fun.
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Although that wouldn t work very well if we d have had it Sunday night, because we didn t get into like dinner.
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No, that was the problem.
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We were delayed.
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Exactly.
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We could have had a...
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Well, our client had a 6 a.m.
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Yoga thing.
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We could have done the yoga deal could have yoga advanced selling podcast yoga I signed up for the yoga thing, but I didn t go you didn t go Well, I was I was working out and I hadn t worked out for like a month and a half So I thought it would be good to pick that one day Hey before we get to the topic which is gonna be a really good one.
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I ve got a question for you.
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I
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Do you ever wish you could have done more last month than you did this month, but you just didn t have the time, tools, and processes?
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You can check them out at outreach.io forward slash ASP to chat with them and receive a free copy of their new book.
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Hey Brian, if you need help creating beautiful sales proposals and quotes, then with PandaDoc you can look like a billion dollar business without spending like one.
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You can create, send, track, and e-sign stunning, and I do mean stunning, on-brand interactive sales documents in mere minutes with their proposal software.
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You can try it free for 14 days because you are a listener of the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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Go to pandadoc.com forward slash ASP.
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And while you re there, download a free copy of Elements of a Winning Sales Proposal.
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I think you ll like it.
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So our topic today, why don t you introduce us?
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I ll do that.
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Since it s your deal.
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Yeah, sure.
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So this is a client-inspired topic, as a lot of our topics are.
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Newish client, someone I ve known for a long, long time.
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She runs an ad agency here in town.
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She and her husband started it.
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They re kind of tech investor people, really smart family, smart couple.
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And he s off on running one of the startups that they re involved with.
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So she took over their ad agency.
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And we re talking about a deal that stuck.
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She was getting no answer from this group.
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So she picked up the phone, called the person, got her on the phone.
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And the person said, hey, my client said, hey, I haven t heard from you.
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I m assuming you ve made a decision by now and haven t heard.
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I m assuming that may mean that it s not us, whatnot.
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And she said, yeah, we didn t.
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We didn t pick you, and my client said, well, what was the deal?
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And the client said, her client said, well, it really just came down to a coin toss.
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It was a coin toss, which infuriated my client in a good way.
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I don t blame her.
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I don t blame her.
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Yeah, she said, are you blanking kidding me that it was a coin toss?
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And what was good about it, this is the first lesson in this deal, and this is the person that runs the company.
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She said, I ve got to find a better way to position myself against a competitor.
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Because if it came down to a coin toss, I got to say, what did I do up front that caused it to come down to a coin toss versus blaming the customer?
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And that s what most people do.
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So we re going to tell you and give you some insight on how to avoid becoming a coin toss.
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And what do you do once you learn that you have lost the coin?
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What I didn t verify, though,
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And I should have asked my client to do this to the client.
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The first obvious question is, well, was I heads or was I tails?
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Right?
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Was I heads or tails?
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Touche.
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And who flipped the coin?
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Touche.
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How s that, huh?
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Where s that coin?
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I don t know.
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Well, of all businesses that should not be a coin toss, it would be the ad agency business, where ideas, and colors, and design, and creativity.
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If you re going to go to Lowe s or Menards to get 30 yards of mulch, and one s $30 a yard and one s $29, they both deliver on the same day, it s a coin toss.
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Yes.
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But when it s an ad agency, or a consultant, or someone that is in the knowledge business,
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It s never a coin toss, because there s got to be.
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So what that means is it wasn t a coin toss.
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She just lost, and that s fine.
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You know, you win some, you lose some.
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But she ll need to go back to the drawing board.
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And now all of our listeners who sell mulch are pissed now, because they think, wait, no, no, our mulch is better, right?
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We ve got to have a whole LinkedIn group just for mulch.
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LinkedIn mulch salespeople group, yeah.
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That s kind of funny.
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Yeah, so let s talk about how do we get here?
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How do we get into the coin toss place anyway?
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What could we have done to avoid it?
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Coin toss city.
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Coin toss city.
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I m stuck, right?
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That s actually a good approach.
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Like, hey, let s just make this a little quicker for both of us.
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If it s just going to come down to a coin toss, I ve got a $0.50 piece right here.
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You want to bring them in, we ll either do two out of three or call heads and tails, and away we go.
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I mean, that s how we start football games, after all.
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That s how you re just getting ready to say, yeah.
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Isn t it?
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You know, we have things in the rule book about the coin actually has to turn over and spin and stuff like that.
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Oh, I bet.
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It s very interesting.
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I m sure there s a lot of rules about that.
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Planning for everything, right?
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I mean, what if the coin goes up and it divots?
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That s what I always think.
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It goes upside on the edge.
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What do we do then?
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Yeah.
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That s funny.
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OK.
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So you got anything written down over there, Bill, as you re scratching?
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Are you thinking?
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Cerebral?
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Well, I think the premise here is that we want to be able to show our uniqueness in the sales process.
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We talked, I think, about a year ago about this notion.
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We always hear about customer experience, but do we hear much about prospect experience?
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And what s the experience my prospect has with me and with the whole process in general?
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And so I think, what is it that makes you unique?
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And then how do you exemplify or proclaim that?
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In what way are you doing that?
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For example, one thing that I ve got a client who, I think I may have mentioned that before, that whenever they are delivering a proposal to a group, and that s usually what they do, if there s ever anybody missing from the group who was supposed to be at the
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meeting that couldn t.
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They can t just stop everything because there s always going to be somebody missing.
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So what they do is they create a video with the person, the salesperson, walking through the proposal live on video.
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And then they put it on Dropbox and they send it to that person and they say, you missed the meeting, no problem.
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We ve created a short video to help you understand the proposal.
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So that way, it s a great touch because it tells the prospect that these people take this seriously.
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They re so considerate about whether people get the information and get it right, they create a little video.
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The video takes five minutes to do, but it walks them through their proposal.
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So that s an example of that is declaring their uniqueness.
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in a very different way using technology and video.
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Yeah, that s beautiful.
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Because I think what Bill, and I frame this up, I ll always say when I m coaching my clients on this, this how to be different part.
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You re either different in your message, or you re different in the channel that you use to deliver the message.
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So I always coach them, my clients will know I say this, either change the message, or change the channel, or both.
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You re talking about there could be both, or even just a message via a channel change.
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But it s great, because no one else is doing that.
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And it could be a LinkedIn tag.
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It could be a video.
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It could be a co-video.
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It could be all sorts of other things, right?
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Any sort of channel change is a good thing to do to help you stand out.
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What we ll typically do is go through the buyer s process, which is, why don t you come in?
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We re going to present.
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There s going to be this presentation or panel or whatever, and then we ll let you know.
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We ll get back to you.
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It s like a cattle call, like an audition sort of thing.
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It s an audition.
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Yeah.
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And so you have some license to change that channel.
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You can change that process however you want to.
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I think it s a really, really good message for people to hear.
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But if we get afraid that if we change the channel that they re going to not give us a fair look or whatever,
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But we ve got to get out of that.
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How many times have we talked about, we are the experts.
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You listeners are the experts.
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You re the guides.
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You re the people who are so valuable to them that they shouldn t think about anybody else but you.
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So if you re just going to follow their process, how much of a guide are you?
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Yeah, you re not.
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You re not.
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You re not.
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You have to believe that you are first.
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That s that trick there.
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And be able to step out of that.
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And if people want to resist it, it s got to be valuable to them.
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And we know it is.
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Because then it allows, when you re doing the coin toss, you think about the strategy.
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Think about making a business decision on the coin toss, like any business decision.
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Like really like, well, we brought in three sales candidates.
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And we couldn t decide between the last two.
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So we did heads or tails and heads one.
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So it s you.
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They were all identical.
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They were all so perfect.
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Come on.
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Seriously.
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Coin toss is not a strategy.
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Hope s not a strategy.
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Let s get out of that.
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I ll tell you what is a strategy, though, Brian Neal.
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Yep.
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FOMO.
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It is.
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And FOMO is a strategy.
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Because if you say to the, and this is serious, when you say to the prospect, look, I just can t do it that way.
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Here s the way we do it.
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Our process is a little bit different.
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Here s why we do it this way.
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If you don t want me to be involved, that s fine.
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If the prospect says, OK, then you can t be involved,
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They will wake up the next day with a little bit of fear of missing out.
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What did they miss out on?
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And if they feel like they missed out on nothing, then you haven t done a good job up front of laying out what your value is.
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If they feel like they missed out on something, then you ve probably done a good job.
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Take that mic out and drop that.
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Bad boy.
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That s a mic drop right there.
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God, that was good.
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Hang on a second.
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Seriously.
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It s great for the listeners.
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Travis, come over here.
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Figure this out.
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It sounds like, what are those things?
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I m getting off topic here.
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Travis, you re a millennial.
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What are those little videos people watch where it makes that noise and they talk really sound?
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What is it?
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A. S. M. R. Travis is great.
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He s got he s watching one over there.
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A. M. S. R. You know what they do?
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We could.
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Well, that s a little feeling relaxed.
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Those things are a little sensual.
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Like, are you kidding me?
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Like making me uncomfortable.
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It s really bad.
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I like the ones where they have, like, like playing cards.
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Totally.
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Mm hmm.
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We re going to do advanced selling AMSR.
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I m listening to this guy.
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I ve got to bring you in.
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I ve got to bring you in the clip.
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This is this Indian guy, and I really like him.
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Oh, that s funny.
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He s really good.
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He s a mindfulness guy, and there s a lot of those guys out there.
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But I really have taken a liking to him.
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I think he s good.
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But he does this thing where he s speaking in front of Harvard, Yale.
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He s speaking in front of these large groups.
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And he s a little bit hard to understand because of his accent, but not really.
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But he ll say something like, you know, how many times have you ever been to blah blah blah?
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And nobody will say anything.
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He ll go, yes, no.
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Hello.
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Hello.
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And he does it like.
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Hello, is there anybody there?
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But I think, but just the way he does it, I ve got to bring that clip in.
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Will we get in trouble if we play that?
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No, I don t think so.
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No, it s great.
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It s complimenting, it s good.
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And I can t tell you who it is, because I don t want to, because he s really good, but hello.
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That s funny.
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Hello, hello, hello.
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Okay, back away from the AMSR now, back to our topic.
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I also think early on that you need to be comfortable.
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This whole thing s rooted in fear, Bill.
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The more we talk about this episode, this whole thing is rooted in stuff that you don t do, don t say, or don t ask.
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What do you don t say, don t do, or don t ask that keeps you in the coin toss realm?
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Because it s not until you break through these things that you ll learn how to stay out of the coin toss problem.
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One of the things is just talking real openly about their process and people, they re your competitors that are coming in.
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People are scared to death to do this, to acknowledge the fact that you say, so are you talking to some other firms?
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Yes or no?
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And ask them, can I ask you who all you re talking to?
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And what have you found so far?
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And what have you liked about what you ve heard from them?
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And what are you hoping to hear from them?
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And just have a, I m trying to encourage you to have an open dialogue and just let that be.
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So many people are afraid to talk about the competitive thing.
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Like, well, I don t want to push.
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It s none of my business.
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And I m like, yeah, it is your business.
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What if you have a competitor that you know really well, for whatever reason they do a little part of the business better than you,
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It might be better for you.
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Oh, you re talking to them, and they do that.
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Then that s really good.
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That might be a good place for you to go.
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Have good intentions behind that.
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Acknowledging that, I think, is really important.
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And being OK with the discussion of the process and competitive set and who else they re bringing in, what they ve heard, what they haven t heard, what they re hoping to hear.
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Because then when they do that is they will start to open the dialogue.
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Yeah, just bring it out.
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A little more real.
1
SPEAKER_00
Surface it up.
1
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they ll tell you some things maybe they haven t heard from the competition.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, well, they re really good at this.
1
SPEAKER_01
They really position themselves as an expert in not-for-profits or whatever the niche is.
1
SPEAKER_00
Or if you hear you re competing against a low-priced provider, you could say, I ve got to sharpen my pencil, don t I?
1
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Can I borrow your pencil sharpener over there?
1
SPEAKER_00
But I think we ve talked about this notion of attracting and repelling or polarizing, and I still don t think we buy into that fully.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if you are afraid of repelling, then you re not going to probably do the things you need to do to repel or attract.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you re just going to be in the middle, and that s when you get into the coin toss.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes, no doubt.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I have a tactical suggestion here.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I may have mentioned this on previous episodes, is I want you to get OK and encourage you to ask what I label the tiebreaker question.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it s really important to know if all things look equal,
1
SPEAKER_01
And there s some element of the firms that you re looking at that you say, that s going to be the tiebreaker.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s not price.
1
SPEAKER_01
You got to take the pricing off the table.
1
SPEAKER_01
So what is it?
1
SPEAKER_01
It could be experience in the industry or something like that.
1
SPEAKER_01
It could be staff size, your team.
1
SPEAKER_01
So my client s team might be a team of 10.
1
SPEAKER_01
and their competitor s a team of 100.
1
SPEAKER_01
They go, that s kind of the tiebreaker.
1
SPEAKER_01
That seems safer to us, or whatever.
1
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t matter what it is.
1
SPEAKER_01
But what you re trying to do with that question is force them to see that it can t be a coin toss.
1
SPEAKER_01
That just doesn t make any sense.
1
SPEAKER_01
There has to be some element that pushes one competitor over the other.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I m trying to figure out, of all things being equal, what s the one thing?
1
SPEAKER_01
We really look for experience in the business first or something like that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s really good.
1
SPEAKER_01
Tiebreaker question.
1
SPEAKER_01
You ve got to know what the tiebreaker is.
1
SPEAKER_00
So my last thing before we close up is just look at the entire sales process from beginning to end.
1
SPEAKER_00
and you ve got the first call, and you ve got the, maybe you send an agenda prior to the first meeting, then you ve got the first meeting, then you ve got the follow-up, then you ve got maybe a second meeting, and maybe there s two other people.
1
SPEAKER_00
Just whatever your process is, look at all the touchpoints along that journey, and decide, can I enrich this touchpoint any?
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SPEAKER_00
Can I enhance it?
1
SPEAKER_00
Prior to doing the first call, can I send them a quick video that says, here are some of the things we re going to talk about, instead of just sending an email agenda?
1
SPEAKER_00
And I m not saying you should all the time, but I m just giving an example of, can we enhance those touch points along the way?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because the cumulation, the culmination?
1
SPEAKER_00
Cumulation?
1
SPEAKER_00
Don t ask me, man.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, let me explain to you what culmination means.
1
SPEAKER_00
I always do that to my wife.
1
SPEAKER_01
She loves it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I do, too.
1
SPEAKER_01
I actually do.
1
SPEAKER_01
I like to learn new words.
1
SPEAKER_01
Not that way, though.
1
SPEAKER_01
Let me pat you on the head for a minute.
1
SPEAKER_01
Or I ll say,
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s really kind of a culmination.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, let me rephrase that because I know you don t understand.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don t know what that one means either.
2
SPEAKER_00
Ladies, I m just kidding.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m just kidding.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s only one lady that matters in that one.
2
SPEAKER_00
No more emails.
2
SPEAKER_00
No more emails.
2
SPEAKER_00
So just look at the touch points along the way.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think you ll find two or three places you can just enhance, just enrich, just get a little better.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bring cookies to the second meeting.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bring donuts.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do something that
2
SPEAKER_00
that really does distinguish you and make you unique.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you ll never, ever hear the words, it was a coin toss.
2
SPEAKER_01
You will never again.
2
SPEAKER_01
Stay out of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for being with us, people.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re here every Monday.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you re listening and joining, go to the LinkedIn group if you haven t joined already.
2
SPEAKER_01
And by all means, we d love to be on the road.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you want us to come do a little ASP party gig for you, send us an email.
2
SPEAKER_01
Listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_01
Put in a subject line, come see us.
2
SPEAKER_01
We ll be happy to make that happen.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s it.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you next time on the Advanced Selling Podcast.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.