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Welcome everybody to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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It s been a long time.
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Oh my goodness, that was bad.
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I guess I m supposed to say here, I m Bill Kasky.
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Hey, we re glad you re here.
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LinkedIn group is alive and active.
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Go to LinkedIn, advanced selling podcast group.
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Join us there.
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Lots of smart people talking about lots of good things.
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And we have a program called Insider.
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Several of you are a part of, you need to be a part of that.
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Meets the first Friday of every month.
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Yeah, we had a good session this month, month of July.
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We talked about limiting beliefs.
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And it was really good.
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In fact, if you go back and listen to last week s episode, I played some clips of that.
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And it was really a good session.
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So go to advancedlearningpodcast.com slash insider.
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You can find out more there.
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We d love to have you.
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in that group.
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You know what we ought to do on LinkedIn?
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I was talking to a lady the other day who s a LinkedIn superstar kind of expert and she said that polls are becoming really hot on LinkedIn.
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LinkedIn will give you a little bit more juice if you do a poll.
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So we should start running like a poll every hour.
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Okay.
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So let s run some polls on the LinkedIn group.
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I ve got the first one.
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Is it raining?
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Is it raining where you are?
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Yes or no?
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That s so bad when I answer that.
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So we ll figure out maybe a question or two, maybe once a month we run a poll and then we ll announce the results and we won t do anything with the results.
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No, no, we ll just announce them.
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We ll put them in the, we ll put them, well, you see them instantly, right?
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I think you click on a poll.
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I thought they had already like gone over the hill and we re sunsetting.
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Obviously not.
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And this lady has a really unique way.
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She does polls, and she takes it to the nth degree.
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It s not just put a poll up on Monday and put another poll up.
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She connects with people and creates content out of it.
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She really does a nice job with it.
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She really takes it all the way to the end.
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All the way to the poll.
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So I had something funny.
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I want to hear what you think about this.
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I have been walking early in the morning.
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There s a little park right down by us called the Flowing Well Park, and it s a little, I d say probably a mile track.
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It s pretty small.
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It takes 15, 20 minutes to walk all the way around.
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It goes deep into the woods and then back over a couple of bridges.
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Very, very pretty, especially in the morning when birds are chirping and nobody s out there.
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About three days after I started this little retreat thing every morning, I was walking and I see a shadowy figure up ahead sitting on a bench right at the very end of the track where you kind of make a U-turn and come back.
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And wasn t sure, because it was still a little bit dusky or dawny out, and I couldn t really see.
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And I got up to, it was a guy, probably 30 or so.
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And he kind of looked right through me.
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He kind of just, it was one of those, I don t know if he was coming off an all night binge, or I don t know why he was up there.
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There was no car in the parking lot.
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I was really shocked to see this person.
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And it was kind of covered up.
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It was just, it was a little eerie.
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And so my head was on a swivel after I made, I nodded to him, said, good morning.
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And there was nothing, there was nothing.
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So, got back to my car, went home, no problem.
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I was gonna call the police, and I thought, you know, he s minding his own business, just doing his thing.
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So I thought, but I probably need protection.
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I need some kind of self-defense.
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If I go into the park again, and this happens again, I don t wanna be caught empty-handed.
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And I don t really wanna be, I don t wanna carry, I don t wanna carry my seat.
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So I thought, what better way to do it than to whittle a shiv.
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So I...
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I whittled, I whittled, you know what a shiv is?
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I don t.
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It s a piece of wood, like a, like a, like a branch and you whittle it, you whittle it to a point, to a dangerous point.
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Dangerous.
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So I told my family.
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So I put it in my side door car.
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So now when I go to the woods, I have a Shiv.
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I just have it in my pocket.
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I ll never use it.
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But there was something that happened to the Shiv.
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It got someone the other day.
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I got in the car.
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got the car, put it in my pocket first, got in the car.
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And it apparently seeped through my, broke through my shorts.
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And I went to hit the steering wheel and it shivved my whole arm inside of my forearm bleeding.
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And I m like, okay, this is not supposed to work this way.
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The shiv is not supposed to attack the shiver.
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So, uh, I don t know where to start.
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Well, let me just say to that.
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So first I want to know what, so I d never heard of a shiv ever.
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I know what whittling is from growing up in Southern Indiana.
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That s what you re doing.
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So in the portion you whittle, whistle while you whittle, uh, what, what exactly of all the options you had, bear spray, uh, pepper spray, uh, carrying a firearm, uh, you re thinking of all the options and knife, uh, I got it.
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How did you land on a shiv that I m guessing that eight out of 10 people don t know what it is?
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Well, I always think of a shiv as a prison, as something in prison and people, people sneak in a shiv and then the guy attacks the guards and kills his roommate.
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I don t know.
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I think I just probably got into, well, I got a little pocket knife here and there s a lot of sticks.
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Maybe I can just craft something out of thin air.
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I think Travis needs to get a picture of the shiv, and we need to show the listeners.
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And if most of the people, listeners, that aren t from where we are, we re from Indianapolis, Indiana, where Bill lives is not quite the crime capital of Indianapolis.
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The odds of something really bad happening, crime-wise, running out on a walk, are relatively low, pretty much low, where he is.
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So it s just funny.
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So what if an owl, what if a hoot owl,
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sweeps down.
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I can shiv it.
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A shiv.
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Oh my god.
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Well, we ll continue this story because if I ever have a need to use it, I will certainly be the first to know, audience.
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Yes.
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Oh, a shiv.
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That s really funny actually.
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All right, topic today.
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Enough of this shiv.
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There it is.
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Sure.
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So Bill and I were talking, we re like, you know, when you ve been podcasting for 15 years like we have, you wonder sometimes, have we already talked about this topic?
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Maybe we have in the past, but we re going to retalk about it.
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And it s a pretty common scenario we found with both our clients and our listeners.
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And the scenario is this, what do you do as a sales professional when your boss or manager doesn t agree or support the approach that you want to take in selling?
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So you re a podcast listener.
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You re an abundance detachment person.
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You, you know, set great context.
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When you go meet people, you do a really good job following process.
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You do LinkedIn, but you do all this stuff we talk about on the podcast here.
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And your boss is like, no, that s not how we re going to do it, Brian.
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Nope.
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We re going to go and ask for every order.
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Uh, we re going to plow through resistance.
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Um, we got to hang on.
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We got to try to close it.
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They said no yet.
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Nope.
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We ll keep going back till they say yes.
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You gotta say it six times, and then.
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It can be really troubling for you as a sales professional, you listeners, where your boss, manager, and I would even go so far to say, if your sales culture doesn t support your approach, what do you do?
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What do you do?
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So we ll give you some little insight on that, so.
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Yeah, so I like what you said there.
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It might be the entire approach that we teach, or it might be just a part of it.
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Like we re always talking about social media, maybe LinkedIn videos is just one example.
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And your manager doesn t want you to partake in that.
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So it could be something very narrow, or it could be the idea as a whole.
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The way this comes up for me typically is I ve got clients who are in a group, and their VP of sales is not in the same group.
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And so they go back with things to use.
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And that s when their manager says, what are you doing?
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Why are you doing it that way?
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We need to get the business here.
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I mean, we can t worry about what the customer thinks of what they re, we don t care what their problems are.
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I mean, we got to get the business.
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You got to, and really, literally, it s sometimes it sounds like that.
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And it s befuddling.
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And yet other organizations totally, totally different.
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They re like, oh, yeah, that s good.
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We ought to all be doing that.
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So it all depends on the culture, like you say.
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Yes, and it s can be and I was in one of these what my first job and I didn t know anything about abundance and attachment until you and I met and Even when I remember when you and I first met you started talking about how you see the world in sales It was 100% different than what I did and I was really struggling with it.
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I m like, huh?
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You d like you re comfortable with a client telling you no.
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Thanks.
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I m like, that s not at all What selling is about?
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And so once you ve made the switch and you realize that, you realize it s a way better way to be comfortable with any answer and get a healthy sense of detachment with you.
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But a lot of people, it s hard, and they ve got their own stuff going on.
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So my first piece of advice to the listeners, to you, is to think about the degree
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with which this is happening.
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And so if it s cultural, you might want to really say, am I in the right spot?
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In other words, if you re in a, you re in a, you know, heavy duty, very aggressive, don t take no for an answer culture, cling on to everything, scarcity, everything, you know, might be time to look for something different.
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A lot of companies that we know and work with, and a lot of companies we don t know and don t work with, still carry the similar philosophy we do, you know?
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That the world s a big place, things can be done in a very professional, upfront manner, not hokey.
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One of my clients says not gross, which I just love that idea, not gross.
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So that s our first hit, is to say, where am I on that spectrum?
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Is it like a little, one little thing my boss or manager doesn t support, or is it cultural?
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And if it s cultural, you might wanna look for a new gig.
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As you move down the spectrum, it might just be a,
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you know, maybe a discussion with the boss or manager.
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Or it might be, even if it s just less, you just sort of deal with it.
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Yeah, that s right.
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Or you ignore it and say, OK, well, that s great.
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Thanks, boss.
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I m going to go out and do it my way because it s working.
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And it s usually the top two or three salespeople who get called on the carpet for this.
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And it s like, wait a minute, look at my results using this.
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I was thinking, I really like that idea of on the spectrum.
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I like that, maybe because I m on the spectrum.
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Another one is, does their approach, the old approach, the no LinkedIn video approach, the persuasion and convincing and never take no for an answer approach, does that really work?
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I think there s a logical argument to be made that you can make
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where we know it doesn t.
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We know that going in, trying to sell somebody something on the first call, or being just eager and enthusiastic causes people to put their guard up.
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So logically, that old approach doesn t work.
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Emotionally, you might like it better, and you might, because you like us, and because you ve been a part of this, you ve kind of gotten in your blood.
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But that s all emotion.
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The logic of it is, does this approach work, or does the approach you re wanting to use work better than the manager s approach?
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And just because they re the manager, as we ve seen in the past two years, experts don t know what the hell they re talking about.
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They just don t.
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I mean, I was talking to a guy today at lunch, and he goes to this dermatologist.
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And this dermatologist is thought of as the top one in Indianapolis.
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And she totally missed a diagnosis.
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And he had a very severe mouth cancer.
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And he went to the next, he finally
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you know, shelved her and said, I got to go somewhere else.
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And the guy says, she s doing what?
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She s asking you to put salve on it?
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You ve got to, I mean, so you just don t know.
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I mean, this is a bad example maybe, but experts are not always right.
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And managers are not always right.
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And managers sometimes were brought up in the old system, the traditional mentality of what sales even is.
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And so you can t, you have to have a little compassion for them too.
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They may be too old to change.
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They may just not be willing or even able to change their approach.
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Love that.
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And I want to go that last bit and carry on with that.
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It s the you.
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So this is going to be might sound like counterintuitive advice to what you might advice to what you might think.
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I want you to think about practicing empathy for the manager.
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Because to your point, Bill, the manager doesn t know any better, that for whatever reason, they are stuck and are committed and convicted to their approach.
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I always ask for the business three times.
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Okay.
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And I assume I could be wrong.
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I assume that has worked for that individual over time.
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It may not work for me or I might not be comfortable or I have a way that I love what you said at the end too.
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It s what works better.
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It s not binary.
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Like what works and what doesn t, it s more what works better.
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And I believe an approach that s more comfortable for you as an individual seller will work better for you than an approach that isn t comfortable for you.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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Over time.
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Yeah.
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Um,
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So I try to take an because when I do that what the risk of not taking an empathetic approach here Is that I get into a pissing match with my manager?
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Where I get i m going to prove them wrong and it gets confrontative and that s usually not a good thing for anybody
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So I say, I understand.
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They don t know any better.
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They ve been doing this a long time.
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Of course, they re going to hang on their ideals.
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The other thing to be careful of here is that, and most of our listeners are not this way, but just make sure you don t do the same thing with our approach or the podcast approach, right?
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In other words, don t say, like, oh, the only way to do this is the way Bill and Brian on the podcast say it.
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The only way to do this is, like, no.
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Bill and I are super open to new ideas, always, and have changed our own things over time.
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We ve come full circle on stuff, you know?
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So that, to me, is the bigger thing to be here, is just be very open to another person s point of view.
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Super important.
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Yeah, don t get too locked into us or anybody, because it s not helpful, because nobody has all of the answers.
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I know we don t.
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And I think we have some of them.
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I think we have some really good ones, but not all of them.
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The last thing I would say about this, it s a really good topic.
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I m glad you brought it up.
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is sometimes you have to sit down, like with your manager, not in a battle stance, but just in an explanatory stance.
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Just, look, let me tell you how I m thinking about this.
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Or let me tell you why I suggest that we do it this way.
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And go through, OK, not OK.
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Go through the human nature and why people buy and why they don t buy.
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Sometimes if you just take the time and explain your position,
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not in a defensive way, but in a just educational way, people will come around.
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Or they won t.
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They will come around, but they won t tell you they ve come around.
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They might say, well, OK, Brian, well, whatever.
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Anyway, I got to go.
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And they will start to change over time.
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Then you ll hear them tell somebody else what you just told them.
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You re like, oh, that got through.
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So I think you have to sometimes explain it in context.
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And just be instructional.
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Like you say, have compassion.
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They don t know.
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They don t have all the answers.
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give them some answers that they hadn t thought of.
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And I have a client that just air quotes, remove themselves from a customer.
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So my client went to this customer who was a very difficult customer, mostly because of a difficult manager.
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And they were working like in conjunction with another internal team.
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And the internal team was like, you lucky dogs, you get to leave.
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So so that you know what I mean?
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Like, yeah, because they re, they re stuck.
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And the problem is that they re like, they re internal.
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So they don t, they don t feel comfortable pushing back on a different approach than this manager has this manager s very old school.
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And it s really telling I noticed in this exchange that I think that happens a lot too.
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Oh, it does.
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That s probably podcast number next episode, because I ve got the exact same thing.
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And they re trying to figure out, do we fire the client?
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How do we fire?
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And do we just tolerate it for another three years?
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So go to LinkedIn, advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn to get to our group.
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Leave a message there.
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There will be a poll that shows up at some point in the future.
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I guarantee you.
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Lots of polls, guaranteed.
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And is it raining will be the first question.
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OK.
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All right.
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See you next time.
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Bye.