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This episode is brought to you by RPM, the Rapid Planning Method.
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It s the system that Tony personally developed to make a plan for his life and create his $6 billion business empire, write bestselling books, travel the world for his events, and still have the time and energy to spend quality time with the people he loves most.
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We have a special offer for podcast listeners.
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Go to TonyRobbins.com slash RPM and use the promo code POD20 to receive $20 off the rapid planning method.
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That s TonyRobbins.com slash RPM.
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The discount code is POD20.
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Women s History Month is the time where we celebrate the tremendous contributions that women all over the world have made.
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And in today s episode, we re bringing you an interview with one woman who has changed history.
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Her name is Sarah Blakely, and Tony had the pleasure of speaking with her at his recent Business Mastery event in Palm Beach.
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She s the founder of shapewear company Spanx.
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And in 2012, at just 41 years old, she became the first female in the world to become a billionaire on her own without the help of an inheritance or a spouse.
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You ve probably heard a lot about Sarah s story, because it s an incredible story.
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She went from failing the LSAT, to being a greeter at Disney World, to selling fax machines door-to-door, to turning $5,000 of her own savings into a billion-dollar empire.
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But what you may not have heard before is everything in between, the exact steps she took to get her business off the ground, how she s overcome negative self-talk and limiting beliefs by doing the deep emotional work that many people unfortunately neglect, and how honoring both her feminine and masculine energies and finding the balance between them has been a key to her success.
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And beyond her extraordinary accomplishments, Sarah is an extraordinary person.
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She s authentic.
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She isn t afraid to fail, to embarrass herself, or to be vulnerable.
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She s the first one to admit that she had no idea what she was doing when she started Spanx.
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But instead, she had an insatiable determination to improve the way that women feel in their clothes.
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And most importantly, she s grateful.
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She hasn t lost sight that she was born in the right country at the right time and the fact that there are millions of women around the world who are not dealt the same deck of cards upon their birth.
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And because of that, she invests heavily in women through her foundation and through the Giving Pledge, a commitment by the world s wealthiest individuals and families to dedicate the majority of their wealth to giving.
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Sarah says this in her pledge.
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I pledge to invested women because I believe it offers one of the greatest returns on investment.
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While many of the world s natural resources are being depleted, one is waiting to be unleashed.
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Women.
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Here s Tony and Sarah.
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Listen, you are a legend, and you re one of the most beautiful, humble human beings.
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You have such a beautiful heart.
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We got the chance to meet your husband, and we understand you re both forces of nature, mother of four.
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But let s start back with the journey, because not everybody knows how this all came about.
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And I know everybody knows, you know, you started with $5,000, Disney, Greeter.
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You were selling fax machines, as I understand as well.
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Yeah.
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How do you do that to build spanks?
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Tell us a little of the story.
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Also, if you would, I heard you said that it actually may have started when you were 16.
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I m curious about that.
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Yeah, I will.
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But you call me a legend.
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I gotta say, I ve been listening to Tony Robbins for decades.
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Like decades.
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So this is like so amazing to be sitting here.
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You ve been in my car forever.
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Thank you.
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Yeah, when it was cassette tapes, you know, and then I went to DVD and I ve been through the whole journey with you.
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Now I stream you.
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That s great.
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Thank you.
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We actually met the first time.
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Warren Buffett is one of your biggest fans.
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We were on the Today Show very briefly, and Warren Buffett, we were talking backstage, and he goes, this is why America is great.
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You know, Sarah is an example of the greatness of America.
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Somebody could start from anything and build something and change it, right?
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So tell us a little bit of how this came about, if you would.
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Okay.
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So, well, yeah.
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You know, my journey to becoming an entrepreneur, a lot of people talk about the soundbite in the media for 20 years has been, Sarah cut the feet out of her pantyhose, and then Spanx is here.
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But it always starts way before that moment.
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And a little bit about my background is I grew up wanting to be a lawyer.
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My father was a trial attorney, and I used to beg him to get out of school to watch his closing arguments when I was growing up.
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And I m a really bad test taker, and I basically bombed the LSAT.
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Like, not once, but twice.
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And so, I had thought my whole life, you know, I debated in high school, I debated in college, my major was legal communications, and then I literally bombed the LSAT.
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And at that point in time, I was devastated.
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And then I did the next logical thing.
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When I realized I wasn t going to be able to go to law school, I drove to Disney World and tried out to be goofy.
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Logically, right?
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But you have to be 5 8 in order to be goofy, and I m only 5 6, so I am the perfect height of a chipmunk.
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I worked at ZZ World for three months.
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And that wasn t, didn t feel like my life calling.
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So I then, fortunately, and then I got a job selling fax machines door to door.
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And I did that for seven years.
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It was the only job basically other than Disney that I really ever had until I started Spanx.
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And I, you know, cold calling is tough.
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Okay, I did it for seven years, 100% cold calling, no leads, four zip codes in Clearwater, Florida, selling fax machines.
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And one particular day, yeah, for all you cold callers, I bow to you.
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I mean, it s like, that is really, really, like, really good life training.
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One particular day, I just was so upset, I pulled off the side of the road, and I literally said, I m in the wrong movie.
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Like, call the director, call the writer, cut.
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This is not my life.
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And I went home that night to my apartment and I wrote down in my journal, what are you good at, Sarah?
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What are you good at?
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I made a weaknesses and a strengths column.
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And in the
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the strength column, I wrote sales.
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I was like, I know I m good at sales.
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Why am I good at sales?
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Okay, I m good at sales because I really like offering something to someone that they need or that might help them or might improve their life.
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And so in that moment, I wrote down in my journal, I m going to invent something that I can sell to millions of people that will make them feel good.
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How awesome is that?
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That s beautiful.
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So you made the decision.
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I made the decision and I wrote it down because I was like... And you didn t know what it was yet?
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No idea.
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You just decided, what are we talking about this week, guys?
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Make, decide the outcome, you don t know the why, you know the why, you don t know the how, right?
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The tyranny of how.
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She s exactly what she did.
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Exactly.
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I knew nothing except for that I was good at sales and I didn t want to sell someone else s product.
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I thought that would be the ultimate if I could just come up with my own product and sell.
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Wouldn t that be amazing?
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And if it could help people or make them feel good, that would be even better.
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So I wrote that in my journal, and then I had no idea what it was going to be, Tony, but I looked up and I said out loud, universe, please give me the idea.
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And I was very specific.
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I asked for it and I said, if you give me the idea, I will not squander it.
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And for two years later, I was still selling fax machines.
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I cut the feed out of control top pantyhose one night to wear under my white pants to go to a party in Atlanta where I was living at the time.
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And I came home that night and I was like, this might be my idea.
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It helped, it smoothed things out, it was a better undergarment than what I could find.
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And because I had set that intention two years prior, I think that is the main reason why I m sitting on this couch and not the other millions of women who had been cutting the feet out of their pantyhose to solve an undergarment issue.
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Because women come up to me all the time and they re like, I thought of that, I did that at home too to solve that problem, but why didn t I create Spanx?
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I don t usually have the time to tell them that I ve been working on manifesting and visualization and setting intentions for so long.
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Anyway, so that s kind of what brought me to that moment, but I was really searching and wanting that.
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I wanted a different life for myself.
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It s so beautiful, because so many people have ideas, and ideas are a dime a dozen.
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As you said, I always talk to people, it s like, it s not even the knowledge.
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Knowledge isn t the power.
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It s execution that trumps knowledge every day.
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So you got yourself to do that.
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First of all, when you were 16, how did that relate?
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Am I missing the timing?
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Yeah, no.
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So that s good.
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I like to say that Spanx really started when I was 16 years old because two things happened that were really sort of very difficult for me.
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One is I was riding bikes with one of my really close friends and she was run over and killed by a car in front of me.
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And then very shortly after that, my parents separated and my dad left home.
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And when my dad left home,
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He walked into my bedroom and he said, sweetie, I wish I was your age when I discovered this instead of the age of 40.
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And he handed me Wayne Dyer s cassette tape series, How to be a No Limit Person.
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How to be a what person?
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How to be a No Limit Person.
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No Limit Person.
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Wow.
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And, you know, I think with every tragedy or every difficult obstacle, there s always a hidden blessing.
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There just always is.
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And for me,
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For me, I was 16.
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I think most 16-year-olds would have chucked that in the bottom of my closet and been like, eh.
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But because I was hurting so badly, I was open and I was ready and I was needing something.
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So I put the cassette tapes in and I started listening to them so much that I memorized all 12 tapes front and back.
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Wow.
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And I started crying in my bedroom and I thought,
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I have just spent 16 years in school being taught what to think, but nobody has ever taught me how to think.
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And I had this epiphany of, wait, I can control the way that I think.
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I might be able to work on my mindset in a way that when something happens to me,
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I can think about it in a way that s either going to propel me forward or hold me back.
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Like, that s my choice.
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So then I became a lifelong student of it because it wasn t taught in school.
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And that s what led me to you and Brian Tracy and Zig Ziglar.
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I mean, anybody I could get my hands on.
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And I was selling fax machines, so I was in my car for seven years, basically.
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And I literally took, like, all your courses.
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I mean, I m like, you know, so that was really helpful.
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It was actually funny, because in high school, no one ever wanted to be stuck in my car, especially after a party, because they re like, she s going to make you listen to that stuff.
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And then totally, like, fast forward.
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I think 15, 20 years, I end up on the cover of Forbes and all the people from my high school texted me and they were like, damn, should have listened to that shit.
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I got several things flashing through my head at once, but one s popping in.
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I want to hear, I know your father from what I ve read and I think from the time we talked the very first time, one of the things that came up, I forgot the question I asked you, but you mentioned that your father trained you to deal with failure, like to go out and try to fail and rewarded for you.
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At the dinner table, if I remember right, you said that he would ask you what you failed at.
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I want to hear about that.
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But something about the manager doing that.
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You know, I was also driven similar to you in different ways, listening and so forth.
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But I noticed that for your husband, death is a coach.
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Like there s a timeline here.
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And I just heard death being an instrument for you.
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Not only death of your friend, but also kind of the death of a certain life, a way you had life.
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Is that a driving force?
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I know it has been for me unconsciously to squeeze every moment out of this life, because you never know when you re going to go.
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I listen to Jesse talk about that.
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How much does that play a role with you?
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I m just curious.
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Or did it play a role to initiate you?
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I think it plays a really big role in my life.
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I like to embrace my own mortality.
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I like to think about it.
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It doesn t really scare me, it s just something that I think about often.
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And it fuels me, like, that this is temporary, that I have one shot at life, that this is not a dress rehearsal.
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And so...
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It also puts things in perspective, you know, for me, if I get really scared, I m like, I m gonna be dead one day, like, no one s really gonna even, like, I ll just, it just humanizes and makes things feel not as significant.
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That s beautiful.
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You face it rather than let some people keep it behind them.
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Right.
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But you ve used it for urgency.
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I did.
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And I mean, I think at 16, a lot of us go through this natural kind of, hopefully, you know, facing our own mortality.
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If you go through the natural progression, maybe in your 50s, 60s, you might lose a parent, or maybe you ve lost a grandparent before that.
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That feels a little more like on plan.
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But when you re 16 years old, and you re talking to your friend about high school stuff, and then the next minute she s run over by a car,
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That was intense, and it really put a mirror up of like, whoa, wait, this is really now, and that s all you have, is this moment.
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That sense of urgency, that sense of hunger that doesn t go away is something that I found is the most common denominator for the most successful people I ve ever known.
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Intelligence.
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I love, look at the intelligent people.
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You re obviously wickedly smart and so is your husband, but there are a lot of people wickedly smart that never maximize because they don t have that sense of urgency or a sense of a purpose or a meaning larger than themselves.
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Tell me a little bit about, because I also work door-to-door sales.
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I didn t know that about you.
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Tell me what you got out of door-to-door sales that became, helped you to succeed in business if something did.
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Like what were some of the distinctions or experiences that helped to make you successful as a business person, as an entrepreneur?
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Whoa.
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Well, first of all, it s super humbling.
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It s really intense.
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Like I said, I did it for seven years in a company.
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I was in an office equipment company where most people, you know, kind of rotated out every four to six months.
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And I think the things that it taught me, it taught me the importance of differentiating myself.
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It taught me about what s in it for me.
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We talk about it, W-I-I-F-M.
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That when you get a moment with someone, they re looking for the what s in it for them.
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And I learned I need to deliver that in my message very quickly or I lose them.
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So it wasn t like, hey, I m selling a fax machine.
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It was like, hey, I really believe I can improve your life and improve the quality of what you re doing because a business just like yours, you know, I made it about them.
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And as soon as you can give them the benefit, do it.
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I used humor and the importance of humor.
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And you continue to do that as part of your marketing.
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Yeah, just not taking myself too seriously and being vulnerable.
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I think when you re vulnerable, oftentimes life will surprise you and people will be much kinder to you and much more willing to give you a few moments.
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But a lot of people think of vulnerability as weakness, and I don t.
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I agree with you 100%.
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I think it s a big strength.
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So sometimes I would walk in a door and be like,
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You know, okay, I just messed up.
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Can I redo that?
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You know, and I d walk out and come back in and they d be like, what s going on with this girl, you know?
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But I was always kind of calling out my own, like, I m really nervous right now or, you know.
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Authentic.
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This is my 15th call and it s really hot outside and, you know, do you mind if I get a sip of water and, you know, things like that that would help open the door.
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So, and then when you re doing this really intense selling, all day, every day, cold, you learn that there s about four different personality types that you re selling to.
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What are they?
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And one is always gonna click with you because it s your personality type.
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But if you wanna improve your closing ratio, you gotta kind of figure out the other three types.
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And they re called lots of different things.
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When I was in sales and really training it also, we called them socializers, relators, directors, and thinkers.
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And for example, I m more of a socializer director, and selling to a thinker was my hardest sale.
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Because thinkers want every piece of data and information, whether they re going to use it or not.
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And I m like, this is a waste of time.
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And I kept losing sales to thinkers.
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And then finally, I was like, I got to talk to them the way they want to be talked to.
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So here s every detail, and here it is.
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projecting my style that I liked on them.
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Many of you know the disc model.
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You ve used the disc model.
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The S and the C would be more the thinker, right?
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The director would be the D. The I would be that social person.
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So you can translate, many of you, based on something you already understand.
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but the inability to adapt makes people fail, and so you learned, you kept adapting, seven years of it.
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Tell me about the role your father s played in your life.
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You told us one of the most important ones, how he got you to realize you could control and direct your own thinking, but let s talk about the failure thing you shared with me.
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Is that accurate?
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Is my memory accurate?
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Yes, that is accurate.
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My dad, growing up, would actually encourage me to fail.
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So I would come home from school, and he would say to my brother and me, so what d you guys fail at this week?
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And if I didn t have something, he would actually be disappointed.
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So it flipped the whole model on its head, and I would come home from school, and I can remember, I d be like, Dad, Dad, I tried out for this, and I was horrible.
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And he d be like, way to go, and he d high-five me.
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And I didn t realize it at the time, but he was just changing my definition of failure.
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My definition of failure became not about the outcome, but about not trying.
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And so for me, going through life, my only failures are when I didn t try it because I was scared.
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And my dad even took it a step further.
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He would ask us what we got, what the benefit or what positive came from it.
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So we could get the dinner table and I d be like, you know, I failed at that.
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I tried out for cheerleading and I was horrible or I had tried for chorus, I couldn t sing at all.
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But then he d always go, well, what positive came from it?
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And it trained our brains also to find that.
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And then it became like, of course I want to try these things because... It s all learning.
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Right, you re not so focused on the outcome.
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I met my best friend in cheerleading tryouts.
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Had I not done that, you know, so you see these moments of that, what you get out of it too, that was really cool.
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How incredible for all of us as a parent to be able to deliver that.
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I ve shared with some of you,
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the greatest basketball coach of all time from UCLA, John Wooden, when I interviewed him and asked him, you know, what was the best team that you had?
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He won 10 out of 12 national championships, and they were all new players.
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And if you know basketball history, almost everybody knows the best team.
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It was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, a group of people, and he didn t name that team.
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And he named a team I d never heard of.
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And I said, why were they the best?
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He said, because they maximized their potential.
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He said, the other guys had more talent.
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And he also teaches players.
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He said, I didn t want to teach them to play the game.
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I wanted them to play great human beings.
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And so his goal was, he said, you never know the score.
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You never know whether you won or lost by the score.
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Because sometimes you ll get lucky.
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Sometimes the ball will drop for you.
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you ll get a good call.
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Some will go your way and you ll have a higher score, but you didn t really win.
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And sometimes somebody else s higher score, they got lucky or they got a bad call against you.
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He said, the only way you know you won is you left everything on that floor every moment you were there.
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You gave your all.
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He said, then you know whether you won or lost and you re in control of that.
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And your father taught you to come up with meanings in such a beautiful way.
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What an amazing, is he still alive today?
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Yes.
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Oh my gosh, he must be so proud of you.
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He is.
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It s really cool.
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He s very proud of me.
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SPEAKER_00
That s awesome.
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Well, we honor your dad.
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Yeah, and my mom.
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My mom was amazing.
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Tell us about your mom.
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My mom is an artist.
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She was a stay-at-home mother.
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She s very shy.
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She s just very creative.
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And it was an interesting balance, the two of them.
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I had a trial attorney that was a litigator that I basically was on the witness stand since birth.
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I had to learn to be quick on my feet, you know?
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I did.
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And then my mom was just this most unbelievable nurturer.
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Like, just, you know, she was the, like, warm blanket through the whole thing, like, who I could lean on at any moment.
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It was there.
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But, you know, I want to talk briefly about failure a little bit more, because you talk about it so much, and in all the years that I ve been listening to you, too.
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But what I like to think about, because you mentioned this, that it s the number one fear, is fear of failure.
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And so I like to take things a step further.
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I m always like, why, why, why, why, why, till I get to the very last why I can get, because that s really where the truth always is.
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And so why is our, as human beings, the biggest fear failure?
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Well, it s because we don t want to be embarrassed, right?
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So it s really ultimately fear of embarrassment, which then led me to fear of what other people think of me.
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is the real root of the issue.
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So that is where I spend a lot of time working myself, too.
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I ve been a student of that.
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Since I m 16, I ve been working on not caring what other people think about me.
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And it took me a minute, but I realized that not caring what other people think about me doesn t have to mean I don t care about them, which is a big, important thing to recognize.
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And I will practice embarrassing myself, Tony.
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I intentionally embarrass myself.
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I mean, I ll randomly just start singing in an elevator.
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And it s super embarrassing and everyone looks at me like I m crazy.
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I will feel if it s been too long since I ve been really mortally embarrassed.
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And then I will do it because...
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If you re seeking it, it loses its power over you, you know?
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Then all of a sudden, it s like, well, being embarrassed is the goal.
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And what I also realized by being embarrassed over and over again, it makes a great story.
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I mean, a lot of people will get embarrassed and then the worst thing to do is be like, I hope no one saw that.
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I hope, you know, I never want to talk about that again or whatever.
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I m like, hey guys, you re not going to believe what happened to me.
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I realize it s one of the best ways to connect with other humans.
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So they re gifts.
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I m like, every time I m embarrassed, it s such a gift.
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What can I do with that?
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How important would you say psychology has been in this woman s path?
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Strong psychology, mindset.
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I mean, it s kind of everything, Tony, because I ve never taken a business class in my life.
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I had no contacts in the industry.
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And I took on billion-dollar companies with $5,000.
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So I would say mindset s pretty much it.
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Yes, it is.
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But what I m really touched by is you ve not stopped growing, right?
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Your company has stopped growing over 20 years, you continue to grow, but you keep growing, you keep growing, and she keeps conditioning and training, like the training never stops in her mindset.
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She could easily say, well, I ve done these pieces, I know what to do, but you continue to do it.
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Plus, what the beautiful thing is, it breaks down barriers, because most people would be intimidated if they think you re some way, and when you can just be natural and open, and you share something you re truly embarrassed by, it certainly opens the door.
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I just thought of a really embarrassing moment in my business journey.
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Can I share it?
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SPEAKER_00
Sure, please.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
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When I was first starting Spanx, I had cold-called all the department stores and been on some media here, and I decided to go over to the UK and try to launch Spanx there.
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And I got this moment where I got a chance to be on the BBC, and it s obviously kind of like Europe s CNN, and the guy interviewing me was like,
2
SPEAKER_01
So Sarah, tell us what Spanx can do for women in the UK.
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SPEAKER_01
And I was like, well, it s all about the fanny.
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It snooze your fanny.
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It lifts your fanny.
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Okay.
2
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I had no idea, but apparently fanny means vagina in England.
2
SPEAKER_00
I made the same mistake.
2
SPEAKER_00
You did?
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SPEAKER_00
I said, get off your fannies.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I got the worst.
2
SPEAKER_01
No way, did you really?
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God, see, I don t even ever use the word fanny, but I thought it sounded very British, so I was like, it makes your fanny look smooth, and the guy, like, lost all the color in his face.
2
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He was just like... I had to call back my team of two in my apartment in Atlanta, and I was like, our international expansion is off to a great start.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just told all of England I m a smoother vagina.
2
SPEAKER_00
Might have happened in Australia the first time.
2
SPEAKER_01
That is so funny.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was in Australia doing a seminar and I said, get up off your fannies and look at these legs.
2
SPEAKER_00
And finally somebody whispered in my ear what I meant.
2
SPEAKER_01
That is hilarious.
2
SPEAKER_01
Get up off your vagina.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s basically what you said to them.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s hilarious.
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SPEAKER_01
I ve never met anyone else that made that hilarious.
2
SPEAKER_00
We share embarrassing moments.
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SPEAKER_00
So tell me, tell us a little bit about how, from the time you come up with the idea, fill in the blanks for us if you don t mind.
2
SPEAKER_00
How did you go, because again, so many people have a great idea.
2
SPEAKER_00
I understand why, because you declared you were queer, the sense of urgency, all those things.
2
SPEAKER_00
But tell us some of the mechanics.
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SPEAKER_00
You came up with the idea.
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Did you know anybody in the industry?
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Did you start to go try to do a prototype and sell it?
2
SPEAKER_00
Tell us a little bit of the mechanics.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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So I had no idea what to do next.
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I went on the internet.
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I started looking up manufacturers that made hosiery-type garments.
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SPEAKER_01
and found them in North Carolina primarily.
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I started calling them on the phone and simultaneously I went to Hancock Fabrics and Michael s Drug Stores and was trying to hand make my own version of the prototype with like paper clips.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was really rough.
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SPEAKER_01
And at the same time I was trying to patent it and write my own patent and get that done.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I was kind of doing all of those and I was still working during the day.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I worked on Spanx at night and on the weekends for two years before quitting my job.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s beautiful.
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SPEAKER_01
And yeah, so I mean, every step of the way, I mean, the manufacturers all hung up on me.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ended up taking a week off of work and driving there and going in person, because I had learned from cold calling that, you know, in person is a better shot.
2
SPEAKER_01
They still all turned me away, but a gentleman in Charlotte, North Carolina called me two weeks later.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he said, quote, Sarah, I have decided to help make your crazy idea.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
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SPEAKER_00
What was that like for you, that moment?
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I couldn t breathe.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was just so excited because all I had been hearing was, no, no, no.
2
SPEAKER_00
How long had you gotten the nose?
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, on and off for a year, a little over a year.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so when I said to him, why the change of heart?
2
SPEAKER_01
He simply said, I have three daughters.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I went, okay, and he goes, and your enthusiasm and your confidence in this idea that I still don t really understand, I ran past my daughters at dinner and they said, Dad, that s actually not a bad idea.
2
SPEAKER_01
We have the same issue.
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SPEAKER_01
You might wanna help this girl.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I did that and then I went to patent lawyers and they all quoted me between five and 10 grand to write the patent.
2
SPEAKER_01
I had five grand set aside in my savings from selling fax machines.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I ended up writing.
2
SPEAKER_01
I went to Barnes & Noble and bought a book called Patents and Trademarks and wrote my own patent.
2
SPEAKER_01
How incredible is that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Give her a hand.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s incredible.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s so awesome.
2
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I gotta say, I m not a lawyer, because remember, I bombed the LSAT, so I had no idea how to write the legal part of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I did the background, the abstract.
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My mom s an artist.
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She drew a picture of me standing in the living room in Just Spanx, which is actually the image on the patent, in the patent office.
2
SPEAKER_01
And...
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SPEAKER_01
So I did all of that, went back to the lawyers, and I said to one of the lawyers, I said, I ve done all the legwork, will you just write the claims for a discounted price?
2
SPEAKER_01
And he agreed to do it for $750.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he later admitted to me, he goes, Sarah, I thought when you first came to me that your idea was so bad that I thought I was being pranked by my friends.
2
SPEAKER_01
He goes, I thought you d been sent by candid camera, which makes perfect sense, because as I was pitching to him how I was going to change the world with my footless pantyhose and pulled him out of my red backpack, he was looking around the room.
2
SPEAKER_01
He was looking for hidden cameras.
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Being punked.
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Yeah, he thought his friends were punking him.
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But he helped me, and then, you know.
2
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I made the packaging on my friend s computer every day after work.
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She had just graduated from art school, and I had a pretty clear vision of how I wanted my package to look really different.
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SPEAKER_01
Because if you get a chance to be on the shelf, and you have no money to advertise, your package needs to do the selling.
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SPEAKER_01
And so I knew that.
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SPEAKER_01
I also wanted my package to feel like a gift.
2
SPEAKER_01
The woman was buying herself for so long, hosiery had been like a commodity we hated buying.
2
SPEAKER_01
She s always like, baby,
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beige, gray, and white, and the same half-naked woman on every package.
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SPEAKER_01
And I was like, I made mine red.
3
SPEAKER_01
I put cartoon women on there.
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Everyone told me I wasn t going to be able to sell one pair with cartoon women because you couldn t see the product, but I wanted diversity.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I did three very different looking cartoon women on the front of my package.
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SPEAKER_01
And I have no idea how to make a package.
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SPEAKER_01
So right before I was finished with making it to go to market, I was like, well, there might need to be something on here for legal reasons.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I went to the store, I went to Bloomingdale s, and I bought 10 different brands.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I laid them all over the floor of my apartment.
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SPEAKER_01
And if the same thing was on all 10, I was like, must be legal.
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SPEAKER_01
So I added it.
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SPEAKER_01
That s great.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I was like, OK.
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SPEAKER_01
I added care instructions and certain things.
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SPEAKER_01
But I mean, I didn t know how it was supposed to be done, which is a big gift.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
Tell us, how did you?
3
SPEAKER_02
I m sorry, I didn t mean to interrupt.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, I was just going to say, when you don t know how it s supposed to be done, that means you re going to do it differently.
3
SPEAKER_01
My husband mentioned that.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I really do believe that.
3
SPEAKER_01
But this is why most people don t do it without the expertise, the self-doubt, the talk track.
3
SPEAKER_02
How did you deal with that?
3
SPEAKER_01
You.
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SPEAKER_01
I ve been working, I m serious.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve been working on my negative self-talk and my talk track by listening to these, you know, this positive messaging and being a student of this, that it really helped me because why would I?
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I m someone, I had no idea how any of this was supposed to be done.
3
SPEAKER_01
I still don t.
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SPEAKER_01
But, so I feel like I, you know, I wish more people out there that don t know how it s supposed to be done would trust that and do that because that s where like the real, that s what moves life and society forward.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s where change happens because if you do it like everybody else, it s not change.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not innovation.
3
SPEAKER_00
A quick message from our Business Mastery team.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you run a company, whether it be as a first-time entrepreneur or a seasoned CEO, you face challenges every day.
3
SPEAKER_00
And for many of you, you re doing it alone.
3
SPEAKER_00
For more than 40 years, Tony Robbins has helped business owners like yourself understand how successful your business could be, the level it s at today, and how to close that gap faster and with fewer costly mistakes along the way.
3
SPEAKER_00
And now he would like to underwrite the cost of a free one-to-one business strategy session from one of his top business coaches, $600 value.
3
SPEAKER_00
In this session, you ll learn how Tony s business systems can impact your company.
3
SPEAKER_00
See, what most people don t know is that when Tony acquires or starts a company, he brings in six systems that are proven to create monumental growth up to 300% in the first year alone.
3
SPEAKER_00
He teaches these systems at his business seminar and also offers a program where his experts will come to you to train your entire team.
3
SPEAKER_00
To learn more about his systems, get business owner resources and to claim your free session, just go to TonyRobbins.com slash CEO.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s TonyRobbins.com slash CEO.
3
SPEAKER_00
Now let s get back to the interview.
3
SPEAKER_02
So once you get this man on board who s going to manufacture for you, and you got your patent, did you go... I know at some point you got to Neiman Marcus and Oprah, but what s kind of the sequence?
3
SPEAKER_02
When did you have your first breakthrough after actually getting somebody to believe in it and get the legal done?
3
SPEAKER_02
Did you go out and call on department stores?
3
SPEAKER_01
I did.
3
SPEAKER_01
I called on Neiman s.
3
SPEAKER_02
That was the first place you went?
3
SPEAKER_01
So this goes to not knowing how it s supposed to be done and how it can work in your favor, but I called Neiman Marcus.
3
SPEAKER_01
I looked him up in the yellow pages, and I called the one in Atlanta where I lived, and I said, hi, this is Sarah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve invented something, and the lady started laughing at me.
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She goes, well, we have a buying office, and it s in Dallas, so you should call there.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I said, okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I learned from my cold calling days not to leave a message, so I called for, I think it was three to five days before the hosiery buyer ever picked up.
3
SPEAKER_01
I never left a message.
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SPEAKER_01
I just kept hanging up, and all day at odd times, I d try her.
3
SPEAKER_01
Finally, she answered, and I just said, hi, this is Sarah Blakely, and I ve invented something that s going to change the way your customers wear clothes and help all your salespeople sell more.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh, what a great benefit.
3
SPEAKER_02
Boy, you re training to get your message out of me.
3
SPEAKER_01
You had to.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she was like, OK, mail it to me.
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SPEAKER_01
And I was like, I can t mail it to you.
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SPEAKER_01
I have to come in person.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we went back and forth on that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I said, look, you ve got nothing to lose.
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SPEAKER_01
You can kick me out after 10 minutes.
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SPEAKER_01
Just let me fly there.
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SPEAKER_01
And she said, if you re willing to fly here, I ll give you 10 minutes.
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SPEAKER_01
And I got on a plane and I had my lucky red backpack from college, which literally, it is lucky.
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SPEAKER_01
And my friends begged me not to take it, Tony.
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SPEAKER_01
They were like, Sarah, no, no.
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SPEAKER_01
You re going to the Neiman Marcus headquarters.
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SPEAKER_01
Do not bring that old dirty red backpack.
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SPEAKER_01
And they were like, buy a Prada bag, return it the next day, whatever you need to do.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, no, I got to bring it.
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SPEAKER_01
It s good luck.
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SPEAKER_01
So I flew there.
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SPEAKER_01
I m sitting with this lady that is perfect.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, her dress matched her pen, matched her shoes, right?
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SPEAKER_01
And I m sitting there with my red backpack from college, an Eastpac, and I had my prototype in a Ziploc bag from my kitchen, and I had a color copy of the packaging.
3
SPEAKER_01
And five minutes into my pitch, I was losing her.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, I think nonverbals are more important than verbal, and I had learned that in sales.
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SPEAKER_01
I pay attention to the nonverbal.
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SPEAKER_01
So, you know, so many times I d be selling my fax machine and someone would go, I love it, it s great, and I m gonna call you tomorrow.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I d be like, oh God.
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SPEAKER_01
And I would even say to them, you know what, you re shaking your head no, but you re telling me yes, that s a little concerning.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, can you really be honest with me?
3
SPEAKER_01
What s the big issue?
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SPEAKER_01
And then they d be like, blah.
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SPEAKER_01
And then I d get one last chance to be able to.
3
SPEAKER_01
So anyway, her non-verbals were like clear as day.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was like, oh God.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I just randomly, I said, Diane, will you come to the bathroom with me?
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SPEAKER_01
She s like, she s like, excuse me.
3
SPEAKER_01
I said, I know it s a little weird, but will you come to the bathroom with me?
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SPEAKER_01
I m going to show you my product on and not on.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I went into the stall and I showed her under white pants without Spanx.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then I put them on and I came out and I showed her with Spanx and she immediately went, I get it.
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SPEAKER_01
It s brilliant.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m going to try it in seven stores.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, wow, that s awesome.
3
SPEAKER_02
So when they put them into the markets, did they take off right away, or did you have to do some of the former marketing?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, they did, but I had a little something to do with that.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I bet you did.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so she said, I m going to try them in seven stores, which was amazing.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I immediately called everyone I knew in those seven cities, and I paid them to buy Spanx.
3
SPEAKER_02
You and Jesse are twin souls.
3
SPEAKER_02
I can see that for sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
I totally paid people to buy Spanx.
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SPEAKER_01
I was like, hi, it s Sarah.
3
SPEAKER_01
We sat next to each other in fourth grade.
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SPEAKER_01
I know I haven t talked to you since, but I just created this product called Spanx.
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SPEAKER_01
I ll mail you a check.
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SPEAKER_01
Go in, tell the salesperson you ve been looking for it for your whole life.
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SPEAKER_01
And I literally bought up a lot of my product and the Neiman s buyer called me and she s like, we are selling out.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was like, no kidding.
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SPEAKER_01
I can t believe it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then just as I was running out of money, Oprah called and that was like, I got a chance to be one of Oprah s favorite things, which was amazing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was amazing.
3
SPEAKER_02
And you were running out of cash.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, for sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I wanted to say something also about the not knowing how it s supposed to be done.
3
SPEAKER_01
So after I got into Neiman s, all of these people in the industry came up to me and they re like, how in the world did you land Neiman s?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I would look at them and I d go, I called them.
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SPEAKER_01
I m not even kidding, and we would just stare at each other.
3
SPEAKER_01
They d be like, what do you mean you called them?
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SPEAKER_01
I m like, I called them, why, what do you do?
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SPEAKER_01
They re like, I go to trade shows, and I ve been setting up a booth for the last six years, and everyone says that around year six or seven, Neiman s comes to your booth.
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SPEAKER_01
And I was like, I didn t even know there were trade shows.
3
SPEAKER_01
So there s so much to be said.
3
SPEAKER_01
That one example I think is so telling about trusting, not knowing how it s supposed to be done.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
So you go on Oprah at that critical time.
3
SPEAKER_02
Obviously we get a sense of what happened there, but you also, you decided early on, if I remember reading correctly, that
3
SPEAKER_02
You weren t going to do traditional advertising, maybe partially because of economics, but that you were using word of mouth, but also you really were one of the early people using influencers.
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SPEAKER_02
I mean, everybody does that now.
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SPEAKER_02
They think of Instagram and social media, but you didn t have it in those days.
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Why did you make that choice, and how did you make that choice?
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What did you decide to do around marketing?
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What was your philosophy around marketing in those early days, and how does it affect you still today?
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So you re right that I made the choice for budget, you know, initially, and then when I saw how effective it was and how authentic it felt, then I didn t change it even when I had the budget to do it.
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So Spanx became a household name and a global brand without ever advertising for the first 16 years of business.
3
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Let s have a hand for that, that s incredible.
3
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That s incredible.
3
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So thank you.
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So for 16 years, we didn t do any formal advertising.
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And I basically sat in my apartment and said, what is the most effective way for me to get awareness, brand awareness?
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for no money?
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And I just wrote all of the ideas down.
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I was like, send product to people like Oprah, call every radio station in America, call all the editors of every fashion magazine.
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I went to the store and I bought every fashion magazine and I circled names in the front and I just did it like that.
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And then after maybe four to six months, I ended up hiring someone to do that.
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that had no experience in it either.
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All my first employees had no experience in what they were doing.
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How did you pick your first employees?
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What was your criteria?
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Well, I like to say as soon as you can afford to, hire your weaknesses.
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And I knew when you re an entrepreneur, you know what your weaknesses are.
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It s usually what you don t enjoy too.
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It became pretty clear to me that I wasn t good at operations, that I wasn t good at the accounting and the inventory side of the business.
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And so my first employee was an operator.
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And he was my boyfriend at the time.
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And he was a health care consultant.
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So naturally, I was like, come help me.
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SPEAKER_00
This makes perfect sense.
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And then my second employee was someone who did PR.
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And she was a neighbor who I had given a free sample to, and we walked to get a bagel together.
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And she told me the whole walk there and the whole walk back why she loved it.
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And at the end of it, I was like, will you be my head of PR?
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Like, will you take this list of all these people and the radio DJs and everyone I m trying to get?
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And she said, absolutely.
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And then my third hire was an assistant to help me book all my travel and hotel and stuff.
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And after about two and a half, three weeks, she became my head of product.
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Wow.
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Because I turned to her and I was like, do you want to be my head of product?
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She s like, I don t know anything about shapewear or hosiery.
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I m like, I don t either.
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Perfect.
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And she came and she s still to this day, 20 years later, we re 20 years old this year, Spanx started in 2000.
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So she s had a product, she had no idea, she has this unbelievable gift.
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And so she figured it out, she kind of became an extension of me in product.
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I would dream up ideas and then she s really good at
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solving the problems and figuring them out because Spanx holds many, many patents and a lot of what we ve done has never been done before, which is my favorite place to play.
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And, excuse me, so.
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Yeah, she s still at the company.
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Those were my first three hires.
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Because in the beginning, I m just gonna tell you what was going through my mind over and over again.
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Make it, sell it, build awareness.
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I didn t think of anything else.
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There wasn t really another thought that came into my mind.
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I was like, make it, sell it, build awareness.
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Make it, sell it, build awareness.
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SPEAKER_00
And I only ever bought or spent what I had orders for already or what I knew I could sell.
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And so the sales funded it.
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And that s just the way I chose to do it.
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I never really... It s exciting.
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SPEAKER_01
It s beautiful.
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Yeah, I never really...
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changed up that model, so make it, sell it, build awareness, really.
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So I think a lot of times you get, it s very easy to get distracted on things that aren t really gonna give you that return on investment.
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Plus it keeps it simple, you know, complexity is the enemy of execution, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
You kept it simple, everybody could be focused.
4
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I ve heard you say, you know, start, some of your advice often is start small, think big, and scale quickly.
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Yeah.
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Tell us what that means to you.
4
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I mean, it really means, well, now that I ve been doing this 20 years, I kind of realize that a lot of people want to start big.
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And I was totally cool with not starting big.
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I was like, I m going to start small.
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I m going to learn.
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I m going to listen to the customer.
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What is she like?
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or not like about the product before I iterate the next one.
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But I also was scaling fast and building awareness, because I wanted people to know I was the first to market.
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I knew competition was going to come in.
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It s always coming in.
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I mean, it s literally like walking through a land field or something.
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I mean, people were knocking me off directly in every which way.
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But I believe in starting small and being OK with that.
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I ve seen a lot of people that are raising $40 million and $100 million for marketing budgets and big ad campaigns and things right out of the gate.
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And marketing never makes up for a product that isn t superior.
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It doesn t make up for raving fan clients.
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That s what always goes with this, especially today.
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Product is king.
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Product is king.
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I care so much about product.
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I m like, you can have the best marketing in the world, people will buy your product once if it s not great.
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And you should always be asking yourself, why am I different?
4
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Why am I different?
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Why is my product different?
4
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Why is my product better?
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If you can t answer it, your customer s not gonna be able to answer it.
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And if you can t answer it, spend more time in that bucket of your business.
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Like, how can I make it better?
4
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What can I do?
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And then the same with you personally.
4
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Why am I better?
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Why am I better than, you know, what is it, what s my unique thing that I offer the world?
4
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You ve grown for 20 years.
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I mean, explosive growth.
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SPEAKER_01
You still own the entire company, correct?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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No outside capital, no outside investors.
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SPEAKER_01
How about that, ladies and gentlemen?
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SPEAKER_01
That s just extraordinary.
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SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
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SPEAKER_00
Fantastic.
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SPEAKER_01
Tell me, you started, you know, I m a man, so I don t fully understand the product line, but I do understand that you ve continued to expand the product line.
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How did you know when to expand?
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SPEAKER_01
You know, sometimes people expand too many things too quickly.
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SPEAKER_01
What s your, how did you decide, and what s your advice to people when they re, you know,
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SPEAKER_01
So their product line, when should they, how do they know they should or shouldn t at that stage?
4
SPEAKER_00
It s a great question.
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So for a long time, Spanx only focused on shapewear.
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And there s positives and negatives to that.
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I think you have to really kind of go off instinct in your own businesses.
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But I like to be known for something and be the best at something before I start really expanding my line.
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And then whenever I expand into a new category of product, I want a hero.
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I need a hero that I usually launch with, and depending on the hero, I might want it to be the only product that enters that category for a year, maybe less, maybe more, and anchor in that, and then add on to it.
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SPEAKER_01
And the hero is usually something that... Can you give us an example of one of the first new products you created of the hero?
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Yes, well, like recently, we went into apparel, right?
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And I wanted to create the perfect black pant.
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Like, the perfect black pant, just easy, like, washable, dress up, dress down, makes you look amazing in it.
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And so we did just one black pant and that gave, you know, our customers a chance to really anchor in like, wow, Spanx is making this now.
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And then we added other silhouettes.
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So instead of just, you know, doing it all at once and, you know, another product that we just created is something called arm tights.
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And it s hosiery for your arms.
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And so I like to just look at things.
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I own a bunch of sleeveless things, sleeveless dresses, sleeveless tops, that I want to wear year-round.
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But I can t, you know, because of the weather.
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So I thought, well, we wear
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to hosiery and tights on our legs in the fall and in the winter.
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Why not on our arms?
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So I created this little crop top made on a hosiery machine.
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The arms, you know, you put it on, it comes to right here below your bra, and the arms come to here, and they come in all different colors and patterns and prints, and they completely extend your wardrobe.
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And now, you know, for $30, this item allows women to really play, you know, stylist in her own wardrobe and change up outfits that have looked the same for a long time.
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But that s the way my brain works.
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Like, I ll just be looking at tights one day on the legs and be like, hmm, why aren t there tights for the arms?
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SPEAKER_00
Why are there only tights for the legs?
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I ve got a whole upper body.
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I ve got, you know, it s the same way that, you know, in the winter and in the fall for a lot of women, you want to wear dresses, but you don t want bare legs.
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I thought the same thing about my sleeveless dresses and tops.
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SPEAKER_01
You have the blue ocean strategy, create new categories.
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That really gives you a geometric advantage if you can pull it off, which you ve done successfully, and you also have so much trust.
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How have you built so much trust with your clients?
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I always tell people, don t fall in love with your product, fall in love with your clients, because products and services need to change.
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But if you fall in love with them, you can serve them.
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How have you built such trust?
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How have you built such a brand over the years?
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What do you think it is that you deliver?
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And what s your philosophy on marketing?
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Because there s a great deal of humor in it that I see, and just authenticity and warmness.
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How do you translate that when a company becomes as big as you are?
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I think, you know, I ve always been really honest with her, and I ve always been really direct, and I talk to her the way that I would talk to her if I ran into her, instead of, like, through a marketing spin, sitting in a conference room.
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So I feel like that.
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I ve also been very vulnerable as the founder and the owner.
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I mean, from the very beginning, Tony, I was standing in Neiman s, like, once I landed the Neiman s order,
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A lot of entrepreneurs might think I ve arrived, I landed Neiman s.
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I was like, this is my chance and I will not, not have this work.
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So I took two years and stood in every Neiman s in the country and then all the other Nordstrom,
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and sold the product for them to their customers.
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Wow.
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So they had a personal relationship with you.
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Yeah.
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But I mean, I just looked at the landscape.
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I was like, OK, they re going to put me in the sleepiest corner of the store where nobody goes, and a sales associate who s making $10 or $12 an hour is in charge of my fate?
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I was like, I don t think so.
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I do not think so.
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So I literally, I mean, the store didn t ask me to.
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I did what are called Spanx days and I stood there all day.
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I would go at 8.30 in the morning.
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I would do a morning rally for all of the sales associates before the store opened.
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And I had to really hustle because the rule was you really only do it to the department that you re selling in.
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But I knew like those three hosiery sales reps wasn t really gonna make the biggest impact for me being there.
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So I would run around and beg the women that sold couture, and the women that sold makeup, and the women in men in shoes.
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I gave free product away.
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I was like, I m going to give free product away.
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I was like, there s a contest.
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I mean, I just whatever I could do to get them to attend my morning meeting.
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And I did this.
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SPEAKER_00
And then I stood for seven to eight hours a day and sold Spanx out of the hosiery department in the entrance of Spanx, I mean, of Neiman s, without permission, which is a big key.
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SPEAKER_00
Neiman s is really uptight about their visual and I went to Target when I did this at the time and I bought those things that go on your desk that hold envelopes, like an envelope holder, and I put them at every single register in Neiman s and threw three pair of Spanx or four pair of Spanx and it would just walk away.
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And like, you know, I just remember somebody asking me, is this, do you have approval for this?
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I was like, absolutely.
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But then what happened was, what happened was everybody thought somebody else had approved it.
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They didn t realize no one had approved it.
5
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So I was trying to get Spanx out of the corner of the store that I knew it wasn t gonna sell in.
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I was like, this is my biggest challenge.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, had I not gone to the place that it was being sold, I probably wouldn t have recognized that s really my biggest objection is that,
5
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The women that are wearing great dresses and slacks and aren t going even to the hosiery department won t know this is there.
5
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So I had to break a lot of rules to get it done.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then by the time that they realized no one had approved it, the CEO at the time, Bert Tansky, said, you know, they saw what the sales were doing on this $20 item.
5
SPEAKER_00
And he said, whatever this girl s doing, let her keep doing it.
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How many years did you do that for?
5
SPEAKER_00
For two.
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SPEAKER_01
For two years.
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Give her a hand for that.
5
SPEAKER_01
Incredible.
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Absolutely incredible.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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You know what I love is we live in a world where people read about somebody in the tech business or something, hitting a home run in two years, making a billion dollars.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it deludes people because 95% of businesses in the world, only 5% of them even do a million dollars gross.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so I think people beat themselves up and they think somebody got lucky.
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I think a lot of people think you got an Oprah and that was the game.
5
SPEAKER_01
So I m so grateful you re sharing this.
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think of the details she thought through to give people an experience, not just tell them about it, you know, and doing whatever it took.
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I mean, it s amazing.
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I mean, I literally did whatever it took to succeed.
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SPEAKER_00
I, when I tell you this, I mean, I, yeah, I got a lot of rejection standing there.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, you know, not everybody was always happy for me to be like, hey, check this out.
5
SPEAKER_00
but I took a picture of my own butt, I laminated it in before and after, and I stood there and showed people my butt with a panty line and cellulite on it under white pants, and I d be like, this is me, look, this is before and this is after, and people were like, but I also think that that vulnerability, I mean, so many people said to me, I don t know that you should be the before and after butt model as the founder.
5
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And I m like, but I need this product.
5
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This is the whole why.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I just was connecting with people that way.
5
SPEAKER_00
But you know what else happened is I built a sales force that wasn t on my payroll because every store that I hit became an advocate for me and my brand.
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SPEAKER_00
They were rooting for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I d spent that whole day there getting to know them and selling them on why this was such a great product.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I wouldn t leave a store without talking to every employee, including the ladies that did gift wrap.
5
SPEAKER_00
I would run back to gift-wrapping and be like, hi, I m Sarah, here s my pencil, I know you re gonna love it.
5
SPEAKER_00
I didn t want to leave one stone unturned, especially if I had taken the time to fly there and go there, because it was expensive.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I told my team back home one time, Tony, I was like, I m going to California, and because the flights are really expensive, I land in San Diego, and 21 days later, I leave out of San Francisco, and I m hitting every store between San Diego and San Francisco,
5
SPEAKER_01
That s extraordinary.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I had MapQuest at the time, and I was like freaking out.
5
SPEAKER_00
I didn t know where I was half the time.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I did every single day, including Sundays, for 21 days.
5
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_00
And my feet were like blisters everywhere.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because I mean, at Neiman s, I couldn t wear it.
5
SPEAKER_00
I had to look the part.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I was in like really high heels and trying to be in a cute outfit for those ladies.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I got on the plane after 21 days in San Francisco.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I sat on the plane, and the guy next to me is like, hey, how are you?
5
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, pfft.
5
SPEAKER_00
I just started bawling.
5
SPEAKER_00
I just bawled and bawled the whole flight back.
5
SPEAKER_00
He was like, are you okay?
5
SPEAKER_00
I m like, I m fine, I m fine, just a little tired.
5
SPEAKER_00
So anyway, but that s, yeah, I mean, the Oprah was amazing, but I mean, I had to sell it myself too.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
You, to, you know, I ve always talked about, you know, people in their business don t usually maximize it because they get excited initially and then it doesn t work out the way they want.
5
SPEAKER_01
There was a guy named Mel Fisher that I usually share with the group here who, you know, went for 16 years looking for a gold treasure.
5
SPEAKER_01
True story.
5
SPEAKER_01
And he found it.
5
SPEAKER_01
You may remember.
5
SPEAKER_01
He found it.
5
SPEAKER_01
But he went 15 years with not a single gold coin.
5
SPEAKER_01
He lost members of his team who died on trips.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, to be able to keep going and doing that.
5
SPEAKER_01
So, you know, the kind of the three beliefs are, you know, that aspect of, I got to believe the treasure s out there.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you don t certain the treasure s out there, you re not going to find it.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I got to believe I m going to find it, and I got to know it s worth it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Which comes back to one word, why.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so for you to drive that hard, pretty strong why.
5
SPEAKER_01
What s your why?
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think, you know, I ve heard you talking with people, I know you bring that up, it is for me too.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like people don t have to know the how if they got a strong enough what they re after and why.
5
SPEAKER_01
What was the why for you and what s the why today?
5
SPEAKER_00
So my why is all about the opportunity of being a woman born in the right country at the right time, which I had nothing to do with.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s just pure luck.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I looked at my mom and my grandmothers and I saw their limited choices and they inspired me.
5
SPEAKER_00
Their limited choices inspired me.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, my mom is 22 years older than me.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s only, that is the smallest amount of time when you think about the scheme of how long human beings have been on this planet.
5
SPEAKER_00
By 22 years, I made it that my options were, you know, I could fulfill my own dreams and potential.
5
SPEAKER_00
So, my why was very much I feel like I was doing this for A, not to squander the opportunity that was given to me.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s just something I felt since I was a little girl.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m not sure.
5
SPEAKER_00
if I brought it into this lifetime or where it came from, because it just has always been there.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then I just was, you know, for all the women that still don t have this opportunity.
5
SPEAKER_00
So a lot of people ask me also how you handle self-doubt.
5
SPEAKER_00
Self-doubt is constantly positive messaging from people like Tony and Wayne Dyer and these amazing souls that have been out there giving us these positive messages, but it s also when you can do something that s bigger than yourself, the self-doubt becomes a lot smaller.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not about you anymore.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
So when it s all about you, if it s only about you, it s a lot easier to be like, I don t wanna make that call today, whatever, you know?
5
SPEAKER_00
Or I m too scared to go through the door at Neiman s.
5
SPEAKER_00
But when I m going through the door at Neiman s on behalf of all the women that came before me that didn t have this chance, and all the women on the planet who still don t, I could be crying in the car and shaking.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m going through the door.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so, it gets me emotional talking about that.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sarah, you re an amazing soul, but the most amazing thing is you show other people that anyone can tap who they are.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s like you ve attended this week, isn t it?
5
SPEAKER_01
You ve lived all the things I ve been trying to teach everybody.
5
SPEAKER_01
You re bringing them up, which is the most important thing, is to find something you care about more than yourself.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because business is a spiritual game.
5
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It s all about how can you do more for others than anybody else, but you only do so much for yourself.
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So you found that, and it s beautiful, and you haven t lost it over 20 years.
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That s what s really special.
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And, you know, I had somebody ask me, like, how do you find something that you re that passionate about?
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And one of the things that I like to just tell people, it s just a simple little litmus test of it, is like, what makes you cry?
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Whatever makes you cry or what makes you feel really sad, that s it.
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There it is.
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And there s always a way, no matter what your business is, if it s financial, if it s this, if it s that, there s always a way to tie it into something that means more to you than the business.
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Of course, the customer means everything to you.
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You ask me why I m still doing this 20 years later.
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I care so much about the woman.
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And I also, not only when I was trying to solve an undergarment issue for myself, I stood on the floors of these manufacturing plants in North Carolina, and I realized there weren t any women in the room.
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And I was like, wow.
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And it didn t really seem like they were caring.
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The industry was caring about how we felt.
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And so I stood on the floor that day and I remember saying to myself, like, I ll be that person.
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I ll be the girl that cares about how the women feel in these things.
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And so, you know, that s been the lens for me at Spanx.
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And there s still so much left to make that I can make better for her.
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Yeah.
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I m tearing up myself because seeing people break through, seeing people claim their truth and serve somebody larger than yourself and you re such a beautiful model of that.
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I wanted you to come here too because women do everything today.
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We had a conversation earlier this week about if you don t admire and respect the feminine, including women sometimes who don t because they think masculine is more powerful.
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They forget that no one on this earth made it without making it through a woman who had the courage to bring life through them.
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Much less, I see someone even work all day long in their business and come home and raise their kids and take care of husbands or wives or whoever they re with.
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Women are extraordinary.
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And yet I see so many women that think power is in masculine.
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And we all have it.
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I have feminine me.
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I m sitting here tearing up with you.
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I have masculine me.
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We all have it.
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But sometimes we try to be something we re different than because the culture reinforces it.
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And you are the most successful, arguably, maybe in the world, but certainly in our country, female entrepreneur in terms of results, short period of time impact.
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And yet your feminine is so alive.
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Your vulnerability is so alive.
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What can you say to the women in this room who think they have to become masculine to achieve things as opposed to just using all of themselves, masculine and feminine?
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What s your philosophy and what do you want other female entrepreneurs to know about this, that they don t have to give up who they are in some way?
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Right.
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That was actually a really conscious decision I made early on.
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And, you know, business has been a very masculine construct, okay?
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And I m so happy to hear you talk about the energy because I talk about this.
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I mean, I have a foundation and I talk about my greater mission is to elevate the feminine on the planet, but I believe that it s the masculine and feminine energy on the planet that needs to be in balance, that the feminine has been squashed for
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Like 3,000 years, for a while.
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And we all have masculine and feminine in us.
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I mean, I know CEOs that are very balanced in their feminine, like Hamdi from Chobani comes to mind.
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He s got that.
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Richard Branson s got that.
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You know, I meet, so, and then women, we have the masculine and feminine, so I really am in search of the balance, but when I first started Spanx, I was maybe a month into it, and I had been written up in the local paper in Atlanta, and I was at a cocktail party, and three men came up to me, and they go, Sarah, you know, we read about you, you invented something, that s great, and I said, yeah, I did, I m so excited, and one guy patted me on the shoulder, and he goes, you know, Sarah, business is war.
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And the other guys kind of laughed and looked at each other and they go, yep, business is war.
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And then they walked away.
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And I went home into my apartment and I sat on the floor of my apartment and I actually started to cry.
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And I remember saying to myself, why does it have to be war?
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I don t want it to be war.
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That s not my script.
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And I m going to go about this in a very different way and just see what happens.
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And I honor the feminine through the whole journey.
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I know you do.
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That s the number one reason I wanted you to be here, honestly.
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Really?
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Yes, because I see so many women also, I think there has been injustice.
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There s immature masculinity squashed feminine.
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One that s trying to control.
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Mature masculinity wants to love and serve.
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And so I think some women try to become what they think is masculine and they model the very thing that they dislike.
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And you have not done that.
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What is your metaphor for business?
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I think of it as a spiritual game.
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How do you add more value?
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What is your metaphor for business?
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Oh wow, I ve never thought about a metaphor for it, but I mean, it s this just beautiful unfolding journey.
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Yeah, it s a journey that s beautiful.
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It s just a beautiful journey, and you know, I will say, Tony, about a lot of the women, you know, I recognize that a lot of the women that came before me
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had to act like men and had to try to look like men to even get the chance to have their foot in the door.
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And so I m thrilled that I m in a place and time where the men and the women are honoring and respecting the feminine.
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And I do believe the feminine is very powerful.
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And to your point, I m very grateful for the masculine in me.
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Masculine in me has made a huge difference in my life, but I didn t wanna downplay the feminine
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in rooms full of people that had kind of lost their way of the feminine because, and I m happy that now in business I think a lot of men and women are really embracing the feminine.
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I mean, it s the balance, you know?
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I lead my business with vulnerability, empathy, intuition.
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I mean, I m in a business group with, I joined YEO when I first started Spanx because one thing that happens when we re entrepreneurs is one day we become a boss.
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I was selling fax machines complaining about the boss.
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I had all this camaraderie bitching about the boss.
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And then one day I was like, oh my god, I m the boss.
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And I had no peers and no one to talk to.
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And I had these people sitting in my apartment going, you re the boss.
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What are we going to do?
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And I d never even had a manager, really, that I had
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learned from when I was in this role of entrepreneur and now boss.
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And so I joined this group, which I recommend if you have any way to find people that are like you and going through what you re going through, which is wonderful why you re at this seminar, because I m sure you re all making great friends, and these are all like-minded people.
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I joined a group called YU, Young Entrepreneur Organization.
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It s a national organization.
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They put you in a forum.
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I was in a forum with 10 guys.
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I m the only girl.
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I ve met with these 10 guys every month for 18 years.
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And now they re like my brothers.
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I mean, I say I feel like I m Jane Goodall, but instead of observing.
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Gorillas in the wild, I get to observe men in their natural habitat, because they forget I m there.
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I m always like, wow, this is so interesting.
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And I go on vacation with them once a year, these 10 guys.
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Anyway, for the first four years, you know, they all were placing bets how long I was going to last in business.
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I didn t know that.
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They ve now admitted that to me.
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But you can imagine, I mean, I go in there, they re like, what s your business plan?
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I m like, I don t have one.
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They re like, well, what are you going to do?
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I m like, I m going to talk to the universe about this.
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I mean, literally, I would say these things.
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And then they d be like, well, how are you gonna make that happen?
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I m like, I m gonna manifest it.
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Give me a minute, I ll manifest it.
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I mean, these guys were like, woohoo.
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And then Tony, like four years into it, you know, they start seeing like, she s not really going away, and her business is kind of doing great, so what s going on here?
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And one by one, they don t know this, but one by one, each one of them have pulled me aside, and each of them have said to me, so Sarah, how do you talk to the universe?
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I think honoring the male and female in all of us is the real secret, isn t it?
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Being an integrated human being, finding what your lead system is, but honoring both parts and honoring other people as well.
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There s some questions from our audience.
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Are you okay with that?
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Just a few?
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She wanted to have a few in advance.
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So if I call your name, you can stand up, but we re gonna, for time s sake, read your question.
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So Amanda Marie asks, what would you do differently if you could jump into a time machine and do it all again?
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Amanda Marie, you might stand up if you re around there somewhere.
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Amanda, okay.
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Amanda, it s a great question.
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I like where I m sitting, so I wouldn t do a whole lot different, but I would say... But I would say that if I could do it over again, there were periods of time at Spanx where I stopped playing in my lane,
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And I m a product person, I m an inventor.
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I like the sales, the marketing, and the product side of it.
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And a period of time, what I think happens to a lot of business owners is as the business start to grow, I got removed away from that.
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I didn t even really realize it was happening.
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And then I spent all day every day just dealing with business problems.
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Like there was this organization around me, and when things were bad enough, they bubbled up to me.
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And so all day every day I was dealing with like really
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you know, bad crisis stuff, which happens daily in business.
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And I became really unhappy.
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And I didn t know why, and I was feeling super burned out.
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And I realized, wait, I am really far removed from the thing that got me the most excited and jazzed about doing this.
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So about I wasn t the CEO of Spanx for a period of time and about four years ago I stepped back in as the CEO and when I stepped back in as the CEO more day-to-day I said I am I m basically gonna be very close to product and I meet with product every week I m in the fit room.
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I try every product on and I couldn t be happier and
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I still deal with the problems, but it s not the only thing I do anymore.
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I get to stay close to your love as the business grows.
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That s awesome.
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Perfect.
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Henry Villa says, how do you grow a company the size of Spanx with no outside capital or an external investment?
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You kind of answered that a little bit, but maybe is there anything else you d add to that?
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I don t know if it s a private company you can t mention, but what s the size of the company today?
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Or the number of products for people?
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people sense without getting into your private business?
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I mean, we have probably between 200 and 400 products.
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Wow.
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We re all over the world.
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And it s just been really an awesome journey.
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That s awesome.
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But Henry, I think I saw you over here.
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Yeah, hey, Henry.
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The question is, how did I do this with just $5,000?
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Yeah, with no outside capital or any external investment by anyone else.
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Yeah, I kind of talked a little bit about it, but I was willing to start small.
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And I only ever invested in the sales that were coming in.
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That was just what was comfortable for me.
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And I ve never really had a strong need to go to outside funding.
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So that s really how that happened.
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And I worked really, really, really hard.
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really hard.
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So many things other people would have hired someone to do, you did, or you bootstrapped.
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And I still, I mean, it s 20 years into this, and someone will bring me something, and I ll be like, can we do this ourselves?
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Because what I have found most of the time, it s very seductive to start to say, we can afford the experts.
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You know, you start to bring in the experts, like the marketing experts come, and then these people come,
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You know, I have found that oftentimes, even when you have the money to afford all of that, you get the best results when you kind of bootstrap it.
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And I m always looking for that authentic thread, too.
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I think if things are too perfect and too polished, sometimes you can feel a little disconnected from consumers and each other.
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So I ve never been that worried about
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fumbling my way through it and being able to laugh about it, so I think that s it.
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But I m very grateful that I own my company and that I made those choices.
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Give her hands, beautiful.
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Milo Carbea, I hope I m pronouncing.
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She says, female to female,
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Can you tell us about your daily habits, particularly how you manage to keep your health and beauty routines up while running a billion-dollar empire?
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What is your philosophy concerning scheduling me time?
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Any additional advice for female CEOs in a tough time keeping up, who are having a tough time keeping up?
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I like this woman because she was asked to ask one question.
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Talk about maximizing your opportunity, girlfriend.
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I love that.
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Okay.
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Well, I m going to try to answer all of them, but I would say, you know, I haven t always done it right, and I haven t always put myself first.
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And there are times in the business where I can put myself more first, and times where I do take a back seat.
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In the beginning, I really took a back seat.
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I mean, I worked 24 hours a day, seven days a week for probably about four years.
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And my headquarters was my apartment for the first two years, so it was really hard to separate myself from that.
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But this past year, in 19, believe it or not, I went to my team and I said to them, every year I say I m going to work out, and every year I say I m going to make time for it, and I haven t done it.
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In years, in years, ever.
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So this year I m gonna say, I m gonna make time to work, and here s the hour that I m gonna work out every single day, and everything else has to fall around it.
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And just me declaring that, it s happened.
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So for all of 19 was the first year in my whole Spanx journey that I worked out every day.
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I remember that, that s awesome.
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So I was very proud of that.
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And then one thing I did that really helped me was I bucketed my days.
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So I realized for a really, I cannot believe how long this took me to figure out.
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But as an entrepreneur, we re wearing every hat, we re almost every department.
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So in one day I m like sitting in a meeting and they re asking me about a bra and I m like wearing the bra and giving feedback.
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And then five minutes later I have a legal issue and I m sitting with my lawyers and they re talking to me about something.
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you know, an hour later I m in an employee situation and trying to help solve an employee crisis.
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And then, you know, 20 minutes later, my kids  school calls.
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And I would come home every day and be exhausted and feel like I got nothing done and a bunch of arrows were being shot at me.
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And that s all I felt.
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I would just come home and be like... And I had like monkey brains.
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So what happened was I wasn t allowing myself to have enough time for context.
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So I felt like I was making bad decisions.
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I was frustrated a lot of the time.
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An example would be, my team would come in and go, Sarah, do you like the blue package or the red package?
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Or, you know, the green package and the purple package?
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I d be like, purple.
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And then, you know, it launches, and it launches next to a competitor that s purple.
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And I m like, what?
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Like, I never would have picked purple if I m seeing that we re in a scene, you know, and they re like, well, and I was, you know, I d be frustrated they didn t tell me that, they d be frustrated I didn t ask the question.
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So now what I do is I have themed days.
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It s not always perfect.
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Yeah, it s not always perfect, but Mondays, I work from home.
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Tuesdays, I know that I m marketing brand and all things dealing with the brand.
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Wednesday, I meet with all my leaders and I do visioning for the company.
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Thursday s my product day.
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I only work on product.
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Friday s a swing day for me too now.
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I may work at home, I may come into the office.
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But Friday and Monday is when I try to allocate time for myself to think.
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Thinking is super critical and spending that time doing that.
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So that made a huge difference because now the whole company knows, like they can plan and be like, Tuesday s when Sarah s thinking about this and I meet with the right people.
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It allows you also to put concentration of power into one category instead of being scattered, right?
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So it s huge.
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We teach a process of RPM, which is getting your life that way and scheduling it that way.
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So that s incredibly powerful.
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So all of those helped me a lot.
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And, you know, I recognize my best time to think is in the car.
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Every single person here in the room has their best place or time to think.
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And I m not talking about when you go through your checklist of like, I gotta, you know, do that and that.
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No, I m talking about where does your mind wander?
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where does your mind wander, and how much time do you need to allocate alone before your mind wanders?
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Because when your mind wanders is where all the magic is.
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And so for Einstein, it was when he was shaving.
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He d get all his best ideas.
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For me, it s in the car.
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So I live about five minutes from Spanx, but I have created what my friends call my fake commute, and I get in the car, and I drive an hour before Spanx.
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I ll drive aimlessly around town.
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thinking, and I show up at the office, and I m like, thank God I got that time.
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But I actually had to schedule it, because I live so close to the office.
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So, yeah.
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That s great.
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That s wonderful.
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Lua Kayab, is that how I m pronouncing your name properly?
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Here we go.
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She said, what was the scariest challenge you had in your business, and how did you handle it and keep going?
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What did you tell yourself the first morning you woke up that Spanx was officially a business?
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What was the scariest part of my business?
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Scariest time, and how d you get through it?
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Oh, the scariest time.
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How d you get through it?
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I think the scariest, I ve had so many scary times in my business.
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But I think the scariest time in my business is when I stopped honoring my lane in the business.
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And I had the wrong leader in the business.
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And I lost my way a little bit during that time.
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As a woman, I was also trying to grow my family.
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So I had a lot of other things happening in my personal life that was hard and complicated.
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I would say that was my hardest time, and how I fixed it was I got up the courage to just reclaim it and go back in, and I was terrified, but I stepped back in as CEO, which I hadn t been in a long time, and I was willing to set the rules the way that I felt was gonna be best for me and the business, and wasn t as worried about hurting feelings.
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or who might be upset about it, and let the chips fall where they may, and it all has been a beautiful thing for the company and for me.
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So I would say that was probably a scary time.
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And then, what was the other question?
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The second one was, what did you tell yourself the first morning you woke up that Spanx is officially a business?
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Oh my God, I m still waking up and I m like, is it a business?
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I would say, I was just like, the moment that I actually felt like I was a business was when I had first launched the footless pantyhose and I had been Oprah s favorite thing and I had been selling that one product for a year and a half and I invented my second product, which was the first ever shaper short that had no leg band on it.
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but it stayed down.
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They were called power panties.
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And they stayed down on the leg, but didn t leave that visible liner bulge through our clothes that all the other shapers in the world had that kept it down.
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And I got a chance to be on QVC, and I came off of an eight-minute segment and had sold something like 20,000 pair.
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You know, standing in the department stores a really good day would be selling like 50.
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I d get to the hotel room and be like, I sold 50 today.
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So I went into the green room and I have this very visual moment.
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moment of like collapsing on the couch there and thinking, I m not a one hit wonder, I m a company.
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That s my second product and they like it.
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Give it up.
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Thank you.
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The Tony Robbins Podcast is a collection of interviews and stories and is produced by the Tony Robbins team.
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Copyright Robbins Research International.