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What do the QR code, COVID, LinkedIn groups, and the Advanced Selling Podcast have in common?
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You ll find out.
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More fun things like Greek statues, curly hair, and wrestling singlets.
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And we dip into the LinkedIn mailbag and take a question from our listener, Daniel, who says, how do I handle it when my buyer says, hey, we got your proposal, and we ll get right back to you.
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We ll answer that and more on this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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Welcome, everybody, back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest-running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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Hi, I m Bill Kasky.
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Co-hosts we are, both, sneaking up on a fun date.
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Hey, we re going to go into the LinkedIn group, but this is a little plug for that.
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If you are on LinkedIn, shame on you if you re not.
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You need to be in our LinkedIn podcast group, the Advanced Selling Podcast Group on LinkedIn.
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We re continuing to take questions and get ideas from people there on what we want to talk about in the episode, give you special offers and things like that.
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Really great group, moderating it, making sure it stays clean so people aren t in there selling things they shouldn t be selling.
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You know how that goes sometimes.
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But go there, Advanced Selling Podcast Group on LinkedIn.
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Come be a member of ours.
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We re about 13,000, a little south of 13,000 right now.
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Yeah, and we have heard that the LinkedIn groups are not really very alive.
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They re not dead, they re still available, but we aim to change that.
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We don t think that s really, we ve got so many people in there, such great conversations.
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So if you re a member and you haven t been there for a while, make sure you go in and just post something.
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Post a question, post a comment.
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Just let s try to enliven this thing even more than it is now.
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And I refuse to believe that the LinkedIn groups are dead.
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If COVID saved the QR code, the advanced selling podcast is going to save LinkedIn groups.
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You re welcome, LinkedIn.
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LinkedIn, are you listening?
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Yeah.
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LinkedIn, they hear us.
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They hear us.
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They hear us.
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We hear you.
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The American people hear you.
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We hear you.
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And the people that tore these buildings down are going to hear us.
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Microsoft owns LinkedIn, by the way.
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So Microsoft, can you hear us?
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Well, they re listening right now.
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They re hearing us.
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All right.
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So here s a question I have that kind of leads us into our topic here.
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It s not really a question, it s just a comment and thought.
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I was listening to, do you know who Ryan Holiday is?
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He wrote a book called The Obstacle is the Way.
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He s a Stoic.
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He writes about Stoics.
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And he was with American Eagle Sports Stores, and he was their digital marketing guy, and he s very unique.
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And he was on a podcast the other day.
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He s written a new book about
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the courage to accept your calling, and it s about how do you really dig deep inside yourself to figure out what you should be doing.
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I ve not read it yet, sounds really interesting.
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But he talks about the Stoic philosophy, and as near as I can tell, my wife asked me to describe the Stoic philosophy in one sentence, because she didn t want to hear any more about it than that.
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That s a very Stoic question.
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Basically, it s
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work through your life, comport yourself in a way that what other people think of you and what the external world says to you doesn t matter.
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It s really about an internal feeling.
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We ve teached that in Detachment.
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But he said, Ryan, as he s quoting Epictetus and some of these, Marcus Aurelius and these people from back in the day, long day away.
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Long day, when curly hair was cool.
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Have you noticed every Greek statue, their hair was curly?
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Very impermed.
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I wonder if that was on purpose, or that just, maybe it was the humidity in Greece.
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I don t know.
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Someone check on that.
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Why was every statue of a Greek person curly-headed?
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You d think their hair was really straight and stringy.
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And they just had that.
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And maybe they wanted curly hair, so that s why they did their things.
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I don t know.
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Go ahead.
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So anyway, he said that the number one fear that we all have, and we ve talked about this, the number one fear we all have is the fear of what other people think about us, the fear of other people s opinions.
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And I ve heard that from a lot of different people, you know, even the serenity prayer, grant us the serenity to accept the things we can t change, the courage to change things we can, who is no difference, is really about
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making sure that we re not a hostage to other people s opinions.
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Maslow talked about it.
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A lot of people have talked about it.
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And so I think that I m wondering what, because we ve always talked about fear in the, from the standpoint of what are we afraid of?
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Are we afraid that we will be insufficient?
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That we won t be up to the task?
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Or are we afraid that we ll be too successful and we ll be amazing in our own right?
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And I was wondering what you thought about this idea that a lot of fear or most or all is based in this notion of fear of other people s opinion.
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I think it s more than that.
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So my absolute answer to that, and this will bleed into our topic here a little bit with our listener question from the LinkedIn group.
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is it could be the fear of multiple things, not just the fear of what others think about me.
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I think it could be the fear of just about anything.
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It could be the fear of loss.
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It could be the fear of success, the fear of responsibility, the fear of burden, the fear of busyness, the fear of change, the fear of what others think about me.
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I think the common thread there for me is it s definitely rooted in some fear, some fear-based something.
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But there s no doubt that I don t know how you can look at any decision like that and not come to that conclusion that at some place there s a fear-based something.
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Yeah, I agree.
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Now, is the fear of what others will think of me high on the list?
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Then absolutely.
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Yeah, I find lots of people that I coach and even my own path, that s been really high on the list.
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And I also think there are other things.
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So let s say that I m a salesperson, and I come into your office.
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You re my manager.
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And I say, hey, we re getting ready to go make this presentation tomorrow.
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And I want to go down this path on the presentation.
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I want x, y, and z to happen.
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And the sales manager says, oh, no, no, no.
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We never do things that way.
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We always go z, y, or z, x, y. We never go x, y, z.
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And I believe in my heart, in my intuition, that this is the right thing to do, because I m the one who s governed, who s kind of managed the process.
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So if I abdicate control, or abdicate influence to him, and I say, okay, boss, okay, we ll do it your way.
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What have I
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Am I afraid to stand up to him or her, thinking, well, what are they going to do to me if I lose this thing?
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Now I ve got fear of loss.
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If I lose this thing and I do it my way, now I m screwed because they have said, no, I told you.
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I told you so.
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There s fear all through that thing, as I was listening to your setup.
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Fear of the person standing up to the boss, fear of getting fired, fear of having an opinion that I m difficult to deal with.
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Fear that if I do get it my way, then I lose it, then I ve lost that.
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There s fear in the manager.
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Fear in the manager.
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Fear in the manager.
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The manager s afraid of if I don t lose this deal, I don t develop this person, that reflects on me.
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Fear of making a mistake at the customer.
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It s everywhere.
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It s just everywhere.
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And what if I let him do what he wants to do and we get the deal?
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And we get the deal, then I m wrong?
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Totally.
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Seriously.
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Yeah.
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My way was wrong?
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It s true.
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Yeah.
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And it s the ability to release all those things, I think, that gives you true freedom as a human, especially when it comes to interaction and things like that.
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Yeah, and I think that s where the concept of detachment comes in.
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Because at some point, I have to say, I don t know.
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I don t know if the boss s way is right.
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I don t know if my way is right.
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You don t know until you do it, try it, and then accept either the blowback or the accolades.
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And then the only way to know is to really detach from the outcome and say, we re going to give this a go.
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And we talked about this on one of the prior podcasts about A-B testing.
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Yes.
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Well, it s easy to say, oh, LinkedIn video won t work in my business.
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Well, have you tried it?
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Yeah.
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Well, no, I haven t tried it.
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I just know it won t work.
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Well, you don t know.
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You really don t know.
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You don t know.
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And I m just not a fan of right and wrong.
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I just think it s a really slippery slope to do from a strategy action standpoint, that sort of thing.
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Not from a moralistic standpoint, per se, but the other.
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But like you said, is video right?
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Well, that won t work in our business.
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You hear that all the time.
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How do you know?
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And is it right to do a five-minute video?
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Is it right to do a 15-minute podcast or an hour-long podcast?
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Well, I bet there are some really good podcasts, ours being one of them.
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There are both.
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There are both, right?
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So who s right and wrong?
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I don t know.
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So should we get into the question?
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Yeah, let s get into the question.
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Because it applies.
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It feels, when you read it before in our pre-show, it feels like there s a little bit of that going on here.
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Yes.
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Go ahead.
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So this is a question from?
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Daniel in the LinkedIn podcast group.
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This is why you need to be in here.
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So Daniel, we didn t get permission to use his last name.
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Thank you so much for this question.
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Very appreciative of people in the LinkedIn podcast group, advanced podcast group that participate.
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We love people to participate.
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And this is what happens.
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And you get free sales advice, right?
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Right here live on the show for Daniel.
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Here s the question.
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Hey, everyone.
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Every now and again, I have a prospect who has received their proposal.
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and they take a while to make their decision, even if there are no other competitors.
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Typically, I get a quote, thanks for the proposal.
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We just need to meet internally to discuss it.
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He says, then usually I just touch base by sending a useful article or product update, and I won t ask for an update on their decision to proceed.
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Does anyone have any tips on how to get an answer or ask for one without getting attached and seeming needy?
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Any useful past episodes would be great, too.
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Thanks.
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Daniel, Daniel, here s your long distance dedication.
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Sidebar.
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You love that.
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I just love the longest.
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I listened to 70s on 7.
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Casey Kasem, for those of you who are too young and don t know, Casey Kasem is a host of American Top 40 for 30 years.
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And every time I hear you talk about Casey Kasem, I think of the outtakes.
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What the hell?
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Why isn t this microphone good?
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One of my clients just found this out.
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New client was his producer for eight years.
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His direct producer for eight years.
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SPEAKER_01
Really?
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In the studio with him.
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She s got stories.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, man.
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She s got stories.
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OK, let s get back to Daniel.
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That s great.
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Casey, Casey Mildtakes are just brilliant.
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And she said that s not even the worst of it.
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That s not even the worst of it.
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No.
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OK, so I want to break this down.
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And we want to break it down from a process angle, too.
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And I love Bill always talks about prevention remedy as a great framework.
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Here, I m feeling prevention remedy, Bill.
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And what I m feeling is, when someone says, every now and again, I have a prospect who has received their proposal, and they take a while to make their decision, even if they re another competitor s, and I get a thanks for the proposal, we just need to meet internally to discuss it, do you have any recommendation on prevention of that?
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Yeah, I have a lot.
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Yeah, me too.
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We have a lot.
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We don t have Sam.
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I didn t know if you wanted me to go.
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To me, this is the essence of this question.
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It is.
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And I m sure that a lot of people who
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Weighed in on this on LinkedIn weighed in with that, you know, you got a hammering you got to get a yes No, and I always say no, that s the problem happened upstream upstream for sure The problem always always happens upstream.
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Yep And so we didn t either talk to the right people ask the right questions find the right amount of compelling reason they would have we didn t justify the economics there could be a dozen things so
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I don t know that I have a tip for how to prevent all of those things.
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I think for Daniel, I would say, look at your process.
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Look at your process up front and ask yourself the question, am I preemptively handling all of these potential objections that they might have in the 11th hour?
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Am I handling them in the third hour or early in the process?
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So one objection might be, we don t know if we have money in the budget.
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Another might be, it sounds like what you re getting is, well, we ve got to run it by our team.
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Well, why wasn t their team involved in the sales process?
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Why are the team just now hearing about the proposal?
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Because I know what the team s answer is going to be.
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Not right now.
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Yeah.
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No.
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No, I think we ll pass on this.
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So I think you have to look at your whole sales process from beginning to this point that you re getting and ask yourself the question, what am I not getting to?
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What am I doing wrong?
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OK, we ll say it s wrong.
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Or what am I not uncovering that if I uncovered it, we wouldn t have this issue?
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Yeah.
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There s so much there.
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Daniel, you need to go back and listen to that.
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There s a lot there.
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I am going to talk a little bit about not the pressure to give me a yes or no.
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I am going to talk about the process, though, and being very clear with it, including what happens on their side, including a timeline.
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Because I think it s courteous to discuss timeline for efficiency reasons.
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I think it s courteous to say, I want to help them be efficient, and I want to be efficient.
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I haven t found anyone to argue that back.
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I haven t had anyone ever say, you know, I really like to make it as complicated as possible.
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I really do.
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And drag this thing out.
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And drag it out.
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No one says that.
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I m like, you efficiency person?
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Yeah, me too.
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SPEAKER_01
OK, cool.
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So in the spirit of efficiency, there s a little language bite you can take away, all you listeners.
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In the spirit of efficiency, here s what I m going to propose we do.
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Then I just want to look at the timeline of all the steps.
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I want you to say what they re saying.
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That s the little pivot here.
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They say, we need some time to meet internally to discuss it.
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I would say, here s how I would recommend we roll the process.
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We have these meetings.
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I want to understand who all on your side is going to have some voice here.
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And they say, well, we need to talk to my team.
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SPEAKER_01
Who s that?
1
SPEAKER_01
OK, cool.
1
SPEAKER_01
So then we re going to have this conversation.
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Then I want to interact with your team to get their opinion, perspective, that sort of thing.
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And then I ll come over live.
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I ll present solutions to you.
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We ll have all the economics will be super clear.
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SPEAKER_01
You re going to need time to talk about it internally.
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SPEAKER_01
How long does that usually take?
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SPEAKER_01
Boom, dot, dot, dot.
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SPEAKER_01
That s usually, you know, we have a standing meeting every Monday.
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SPEAKER_01
Cool.
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SPEAKER_01
So then we will then look at, you ll have that meeting.
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Then that Wednesday or Thursday, we ll pull a calendar out, set a time, we ll call it a go, no go, and say in or out.
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SPEAKER_01
If there s anything that pops up in that meeting, we need to reconvene before that, no problem.
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SPEAKER_01
Something like that.
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SPEAKER_01
It gets the thing clear on a calendar with the steps and the actions.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Would be the recommendation on that.
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SPEAKER_00
That s good.
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SPEAKER_00
That s very, I think,
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very powerful, and I was, when Brian was speaking, I wrote down the question, is what s happening to you right now, Daniel, part of your process?
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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And I would say it s probably not.
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Part of the process is not, I ll just go away for a month and hope and pray.
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SPEAKER_00
Keep checking my phone.
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SPEAKER_00
So if it s not part of the process, then what happened?
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SPEAKER_00
Well, what happened was you didn t have a process that was more powerful, like Brian just laid out.
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And then you get into these situations.
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And again, that s hard to fix when you re in the middle of a pin in wrestling.
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I wrestled a lot.
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I was a, can you tell?
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SPEAKER_00
Usually, wrestling is good for 6 5 .
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I just, you know, my kid wrestled.
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And God bless him.
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SPEAKER_01
It s the most, you know, it s a tough sport.
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SPEAKER_01
It is.
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but the grapple, freaking uniforms.
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I m like, who thinks it s a good idea to put a singlet on?
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Who thinks that?
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SPEAKER_01
Now they re becoming a little more, less singlety.
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SPEAKER_01
So they re wearing like shorts and jerks now.
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SPEAKER_01
Who invented the singlet and why?
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, I get that you don t want clothing around.
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SPEAKER_01
What an awful look though.
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SPEAKER_01
God.
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SPEAKER_01
It s horrible, isn t it?
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SPEAKER_01
It s just horrible.
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SPEAKER_00
It reminds me of a webinar advisor that I had.
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SPEAKER_00
It s the worst.
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SPEAKER_01
It s the worst.
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SPEAKER_01
The wrestling slayer, wrestling.
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SPEAKER_01
Bill and I will wear wrestling singlets the moment we get to.
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SPEAKER_00
For our 15th anniversary.
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SPEAKER_01
No, but no, we need to bribe the audience or something.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, if we get up to a half a million episode downloads in one month, Bill and I will do the show in wrestling, wrestling singlets.
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SPEAKER_01
There.
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SPEAKER_01
There.
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SPEAKER_01
Done.
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SPEAKER_01
You did not ask me for my permission.
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SPEAKER_01
I did not.
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SPEAKER_00
This guy will.
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SPEAKER_00
I ll go wrestling.
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SPEAKER_00
But the whole wrestling analogy, Brian took an entirely different direction, thank you, was the best way to get out of a pin is not to get in one in the first place.
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SPEAKER_00
That s good.
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SPEAKER_00
You re in a pin now, and the pin is what to do with this put off.
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SPEAKER_00
So you just have to avoid the pin.
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SPEAKER_00
You have to avoid any situation where you could be pinned.
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SPEAKER_00
I know it s a bad metaphor for sales, but that s what you got.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, you re in an uncomfortable situation you don t know how to get out of.
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SPEAKER_00
I ll call that a pin.
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SPEAKER_00
Stay out of it.
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SPEAKER_00
The way you stay out of it, do what Brian just said.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you can go back and be mindful of where in the process am I not getting the right information.
1
SPEAKER_01
I d say that s a great analogy, actually.
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SPEAKER_01
having watched my kid wrestle, you see it happen on the mat.
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SPEAKER_01
You see it like, oh, they re screwed.
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SPEAKER_01
They re screwed.
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SPEAKER_01
You can see it coming.
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SPEAKER_01
And then they re screwed.
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SPEAKER_01
There s nothing they can do at that point.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it happens right as soon as the whistle blows.
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SPEAKER_01
Meaning as this person is doing this thing, moving around, and they re trying to get this tactic or strategy and get this leg.
1
SPEAKER_01
get them to this point, then it s a process.
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SPEAKER_01
They go to here.
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SPEAKER_00
It s a chess game.
1
SPEAKER_01
OK, now climb around them.
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SPEAKER_01
OK, now slip the leg there.
1
SPEAKER_01
OK, now do this.
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SPEAKER_01
Now wait.
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SPEAKER_01
Now arch your back.
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SPEAKER_01
Arch your back.
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SPEAKER_01
Boom.
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SPEAKER_01
You got them.
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SPEAKER_01
They re done.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s a great analogy, actually.
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SPEAKER_00
It s kind of like a great chess player or tennis player.
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SPEAKER_00
When you watch Novak Djokovic play, he sets his opponent up three or four shots ahead of time.
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SPEAKER_00
It s not about power and strength.
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SPEAKER_00
It s about moving them a little bit, moving them more, moving them more, and then boom, right down the line.
1
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s great.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I loved what you said.
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SPEAKER_01
If you are here.
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SPEAKER_01
Ask yourself, is part of my process getting stalled or delayed?
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SPEAKER_01
Is part of my process waiting on my customer to get back to me whenever they want?
1
SPEAKER_01
It shouldn t be part of your process.
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SPEAKER_01
If it s happening and it s not part of your process, then you ve got to figure out how to fix it upstream.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s really good stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thanks, Daniel.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Awesome question.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let us know if you learned anything there, if you even hear it, if you even care, if you re still even in the LinkedIn group.
1
SPEAKER_01
The LinkedIn group is going to be, yeah, the most active LinkedIn group on LinkedIn.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s the Advanced Selling Podcast, LinkedIn group.
1
SPEAKER_00
There you go.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we should also shoot a video where we promote this episode because Daniel was nice enough to pose.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s a really good question.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that question happens to everybody.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s no doubt.
1
SPEAKER_00
Circumstance happens to everybody.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s no doubt.
1
SPEAKER_00
Happens to us.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it always happens.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so we have to go back and figure out how to preemptively solve it.
1
SPEAKER_00
So good job, Daniel.
1
SPEAKER_00
Good job, Brian.
1
SPEAKER_00
Appreciate it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Good job, Bill.
1
SPEAKER_00
Good job, Bill.
1
SPEAKER_00
Self-congratulation.
1
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Pat yourself on the back.
1
SPEAKER_01
Good job.
1
SPEAKER_01
There we go.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right.
1
SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
1
SPEAKER_01
Bye.
1
SPEAKER_01
Bye.