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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill asked me about the nuances of being not just a student driver, but a Catholic student driver.
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He also asked kind of a dangerous accent question that might alienate some of our listeners.
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And we talk about selling for the non-seller and sellers, this means you too.
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Welcome, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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We re here every week.
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We re glad you re here.
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We re moving into the holiday season.
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Tis the season.
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And it s birthday week for Big Daddy Neal.
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Oh, yeah.
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It s a birthday week.
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Happy birthday.
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They re all, yeah, it s 51.
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Back nine.
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How big?
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51.
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5 1 .
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Coming up on Friday.
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So we ve got a good little, took the day off.
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Free day.
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Free day.
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You always take a free day off?
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I try to.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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Try to.
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Now, you take the free day off once a week anyway, don t you?
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No.
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No, I ve been really bad.
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Oh, OK.
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That s my biggest initiative for 2021 is to get back onto the free day thing.
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One day, yeah.
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It s been bad.
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Well, you got one coming up.
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It s your birthday.
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So get some momentum, man.
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Yep.
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Glad that you are here.
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We re here every week.
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Spread the word.
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We love our audience.
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We have a really, really good active tribe on LinkedIn in our LinkedIn group.
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And we d love for you to share the word.
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So if you re heading into 2021 and you want to give some good karma, spread some good karma.
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just share the Advanced Selling Podcast with your LinkedIn tribe.
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All you got to do is take an episode and post it up in your LinkedIn feed and tell all your connections that, hey, if you re in sales, you should probably check out this show because it s moderately entertaining and somewhat helpful.
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And the Advanced Selling Podcast group is back up now.
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Oh, yeah.
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It was off for a couple of weeks.
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I don t know if we ever talked about that.
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Not on air, we didn t.
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No, we didn t.
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I got put in LinkedIn jail for a period of time.
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And because my name was attached to the Advanced Selling Podcast Group, it also was in jail.
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You weren t in jail.
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No.
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But it was.
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Anyway, we re back up now.
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And LinkedIn and I have made amends.
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It s good.
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Getting amends is a good thing.
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Yeah, you don t really make amends with LinkedIn.
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Not with LinkedIn.
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They sort of decide.
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That s right.
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Yes.
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That s right.
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I will say, they re getting a little
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are more strict.
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They are very strict.
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If you re listening to this and you re doing like spammy sort of things, doing lots of cold outreach and automation, I would be very careful.
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Because Bill s a giver to LinkedIn, massive contributor, very pure user.
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And somewhere along the way, the algorithm got sideways.
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Shut you off.
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Yeah, but it s really bad it they told me that they thought I was using software, which I don t I thought I ve been approached by software companies the whole spam I just because I don t like it when it s done to me So I don t do it, but they kind of thought I was doing something fishy and I wasn t but it s hard to get back on Well, yeah, you re fighting against LinkedIn algorithm.
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You can t talk to anybody.
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No, and it s it s an algorithm and
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I love when people say that, like it s a... I know, like they understand what it is.
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Well, now, what we believe the algorithm is doing... Exactly.
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Now, if we take a look at the algorithm...
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Hey, I ve got a question for you, Brian.
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You re Catholic, right?
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I am.
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Once you re Catholic, you really don t.
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You said something that always trips me up.
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You said, I want to ask you something as a Catholic, like it s a noun.
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Oh, it s a Catholic.
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Like people say that, though, they label you as a Catholic versus being Catholic.
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like you re Christian versus you are a Christian.
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See that?
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But you re a Catholic means that, what does that mean?
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Does that mean you re not a Christian?
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Or does that mean you re something else?
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It s an interesting idea.
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It s like a label, though.
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Well, that s not where I was gonna go with this.
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It s okay, yeah.
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But like, yeah, my mother-in-law, she s like, well, the Catholics, like there s a, see what I mean?
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Those Catholics over there, which is fine.
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We only started the whole thing, but go ahead.
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Well, I thought of you the other day.
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I was up in Carmel.
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I was driving along, and I was coming to a roundabout, which in Carmel, you re always either coming to or leaving a roundabout.
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Yeah, Carmel, Indiana is one of the largest collection of roundabouts in the country, I think.
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Yeah, 150.
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And I was behind a student driver.
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Of course, they had the little sign on the top.
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And they had a bumper sticker that said, I m a Catholic student driver.
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And so I want to know from you, if I m behind someone who proclaims their Catholic student driverness, what kind of other extra precautions should I take?
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That s a really great question, Bill.
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I mean, versus the traditional distribution.
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That s really good.
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I have not seen one of those bumper stickers.
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I should get one.
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I ve got a son who s going to get his permit here next week.
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I m sure you ll have one.
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He s Catholic.
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student driver.
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So the things that I think would be interesting, one is they re capable, if you cut them off or something, they can flip you off and cuss at you, and then go get it cleared up at confession on Saturday.
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Yeah, Saturday, 4 to 4.30.
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They ll go see Father Miguel, and everything s all good, all clean.
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That s a thing.
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So they re not unnerved by flipping you off in the car.
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No, I don t think so.
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They might have a rosary hanging from their... Could.
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I didn t see one, because I looked for that.
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I looked for some other signal.
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Yes.
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because I ve not seen, you know, I m a Jewish student driver, I m a Muslim student driver, I m a Christian student driver.
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I haven t seen those, so I just wonder if there was something special.
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I don t know, that s a really good question.
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But I think your answer about getting flipped off and the anger with which they can approach you, they go clean up really quick.
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The other thing they might do now, probably not for a student driver, but if their parents are with them, if they drive by an Irish pub, they might cross two lanes of traffic.
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to fly in to get to the beer on Friday afternoon.
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That s true.
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That would be my guess.
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That s really funny.
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I ve never seen that.
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I ll have to get one for Billy.
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Well, you need to get one for him.
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For Billy Neal.
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All right.
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So topic today, I have a new client who is primarily their
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Project managers and project engineers are the ones that go out and generate business and they re not they re not naturally good at that And so they kind of let business come to them They ve been around in their market long enough that good business comes but they need to be more proactive
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And so part of our engagement with them is to go in and help them, their project team, their project managers, all what I would call the non-sales people, non-sellers, to do more outreach, not cold calls, but do more content, maybe make some phone calls to make sure projects are going the way they want them to, just a lot of different things that the non-seller can be doing.
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And I thought it might be a decent topic today, not only
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Because I don t know how many non-sellers we have that listen to the podcast.
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I know we have a lot of salespeople who have non-salespeople inside their organizations that matter.
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Yes.
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And if you can help them become more reachable, less obscure, more visible, then perhaps your pockets will be lined as well.
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Now, it ll be good for you, too, because people will be coming, and project manager will turn over a lead to you and say, hey, I just reached out to this person.
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They call back.
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They ve got a project.
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You want to take it.
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You want me to, depending upon how your organization works.
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Yes.
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This is, to me, a fantastic topic, and one that s getting more and more attention than it s ever gotten for a couple reasons, in my opinion.
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One, I think leadership.
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in companies, whether it s the owner or the CEO or the chief revenue officer, what have you, are realizing that everyone that interacts with a customer is part of the selling process, both in closing, retention, and then also, though, in upselling and expanding and that sort of thing.
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And when you think about the, in this case, if it s a, take a software company, for example, or an engineering company, the engineers are the ones that are the product that really decide whether or not we expand the contract, extend it, all those sorts of things.
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And we ve never given attention to those people.
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We ve never trained them.
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We ve never coached them.
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They didn t go to school for that, like you said.
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And they tend to stereotypically, broad stereotype here, they have a different slant in terms of communication style, their persona, that sort of thing.
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And they have something in their minds about what sales does that they don t like, which I think is a really important thing.
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That s right.
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If you re a company, any company, I think you re crazy to not provide your non-sellers with a sales philosophy and an approach and a framework going into the future.
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It s a huge miss if you re not opening your eyes to this idea.
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And if you do decide to train or coach or whatever word you want to put around it, and don t spend time on the mental and that part, are you trying to get me to do something?
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No.
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No, I was just massively agree.
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No, I m just trying to sit up straight.
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I m working on my posture.
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Can you tell?
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I m a sloucher.
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Out of the corner of my visually impaired eye, I thought you were motioning for me like, no, don t go there.
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No, I do that.
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Now that I know that s a bad eye, I kind of mess with you.
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You can t see this.
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Candy can t see this.
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We should be switched.
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Stay on your good eye side.
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But no, if you re looking to train or coach your people, your non-salespeople, make sure you spend a lot of time on the mental aspect.
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Because if you don t get that right, then you re going to always be pushing a rope uphill, trying to figure out a way to.
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You like that?
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Pushing a rope uphill.
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I like that.
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Yeah, with your nose.
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That s right.
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Serpentine on the ground.
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Yes.
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But you got to get the mind right for non-salespeople or they won t be able to execute the tactics.
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So what I thought we could do today is maybe we pick two or three things that Project
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managers, project engineers, non-salespeople can be doing alongside and in congruence with the salesperson so that you as a sales professional can
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Send this podcast out to your team.
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Maybe you have a project manager lead, and they can pick some ideas up.
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And I would, salespeople, before you go, oh, this episode s not for me, that, that, that, that, that, that, that s wrong.
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Every episode s for you for two reasons.
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One, there s probably some things we re going to talk about that you ve not doing either, and you re the salesperson.
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Two, if your account management
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project engineers, your doers are well-trained, you ll win also.
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So you need to be a huge supporter of this initiative to coach and train your non-sellers on how to be better in front of the customer and that sort of stuff.
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All right, you wanted to?
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Yeah, I just pulled the microphone over.
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And as I did so, I had a very bad feeling.
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Do you remember at the end of last, like a couple episodes ago?
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Oh, yeah.
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The microphone.
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If you re interested in seeing that, it s on YouTube.
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The release from Monday, November 23rd.
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Yeah.
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Right, Travy?
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Yeah.
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Watch the YouTube version of that.
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Yeah, very last part.
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And just watch all the way through to the end, and you ll see in the studio here.
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I m getting a new sign to put behind us.
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It says, you break it, you buy it.
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Yeah.
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We need a you break it, you buy it sign.
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Unfortunately, it didn t break.
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OK.
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Want to go first?
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Yeah, so here s one thing.
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And I m looking at this like, OK, what can I be doing?
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This is really very tactical, but I think that s where we need to start.
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And we can start with a mindset, but that s going to be up to you.
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So one thing you can do with your non-sellers
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is come up with a list of questions that your prospect might have for the, so if it s a project manager that s in question here, what kinds of questions would the customer have for the project manager?
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Maybe as you start to do the work.
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Maybe as the work is half finished maybe at the end of the job there s questions that prospect or clients have I would come up with a list of those questions and then Record or produce or write it doesn t have to be a podcast or video It could be just a written element a written article about here s a type of question that I get at this point in the process
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And allow your project manager to answer that question.
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It could be just a paragraph, something really simple.
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But we want to, I was listening to, was it Gary Vaynerchuk or somebody the other day who is a real leader in content marketing?
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Oh, I knew who it was.
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Eupreneur Drucker, do you know him?
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No.
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He s a British guy.
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No.
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He s either Australian or British.
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Uh-oh, you re going to get in trouble with that one.
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I know, I know.
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Uh-oh, all the Aussies are so pissed right now.
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That s true.
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So bad.
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But he said, the best kind of content is if you re answering a question that s in the mind of the prospect and they don t know how to ask it.
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So it s not always the most common questions.
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It s the questions that I have about a product that I don t know how to ask.
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If you can put those questions into the market and then answer them, people will say, man, I was thinking that very thing.
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I was thinking that very question.
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So that s one example of something your project managers can do.
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Just make a list of some questions that they get and help them answer them and produce them, promote them, write about them.
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I like the idea, too, of that, of documenting the work.
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Because one thing, when you re talking about delivery, and Bill s using the word project manager, because that s this engagement.
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But it could be an engineering team.
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It could be account managers.
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It could be client success people.
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You document work, though.
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People see what goes on behind the scenes.
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It s very popular right now, especially on silly apps like TikTok, which I really like.
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But it s like they document the day.
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So I follow a TikToker who s a corporate pilot.
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And he s like, here s a day in the life of the corporate pilot.
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Here s a day in the life of a project manager at this company.
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Here s what I do.
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Boom, I come here.
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And you could do a one minute little video.
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I like that.
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Right?
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And you re just saying, here s what I do.
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I log in.
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Then here s me writing the code.
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And then here s what the software did before.
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Here s the QA test.
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I hit Enter.
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And the light is green.
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We re all good.
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And you see, like, dang, that s really cool.
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Yeah.
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Here s me listening to the event selling podcast.
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Here s me.
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Someone should do that with a pipe.
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Should get a pipe podcast.
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I m going to go to the to the mindset in slightly differently, though.
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I want to make sure that if you if you re a salesperson, you forward this to your project management account people.
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that they need to filter out their perceptions of what a salesperson is and what they do.
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Because there s a massive gap, I think, between these non-sellers and what true sales is today in almost 2021.
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It s not what they think.
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They think it s still aggressive and cheesy and persuading.
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And we all know it s not that way anymore.
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We know there are a few leftovers that are still doing it the old way.
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But for the most part, our industry, our function,
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elevated itself.
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But most of the people that don t sell don t know that.
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They re still locked into the old mentality.
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They think their mentality is like, I have to be that way, and I don t want to be that way.
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I agree.
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Yeah.
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And so the first thing is just releasing that.
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And what s interesting about PMs and people like that, they like to study and learn things.
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So have them study and learn a little bit.
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Like, you know what?
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Sales isn t what I thought it was.
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It can actually be really different listening to the Advanced Selling Podcast, reading, watching YouTube videos, whatever.
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So examine that and recognize that if you lean on the concept that Bill and I talk about, which is good intention, every PM, AM, and everyone, they will love that concept because they are naturally true helpers.
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That s what they do for a living.
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And if you say all selling is is helping, that s all it is.
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It s really all it is.
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That s the energy.
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That s why we do it.
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and that we help people by going and interacting with them and walking down the hall to say, can I help you?
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Is there something, you know?
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You know, that s a great point.
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I think every person listening to this should go teach that concept to somebody inside their company who s a non-seller today.
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Oh, that s good.
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Before you do anything, before you do anything else, call us at Sssst.
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It s good.
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Or is that a callback from?
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Do you remember?
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Before you do anything else, go to Sssst.
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Stamps.com?
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Stamps.com.
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It was not a sponsor anymore.
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We didn t sell enough stamps.
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Stamps.com.
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But go, because I think what you just said is people who are not in sales carry around this philosophy of what selling is, and it s a burden.
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And when someone says to that person, hey, I need you to get more active into sales, it s like a, what s it called when,
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And the Bible used to talk about the yoke.
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Oh, the yoke.
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You pull the oxen.
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Yeah, the oxen.
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So it s like a yoke or a burden that you have that if you don t release that burden through understanding what sales really is, it becomes hard to do anything, as we talked before.
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SPEAKER_00
So salespeople, if you re hearing this and you ve got somebody inside your company and you say, God, they would just be so good in front of customers, they probably have that burden on them.
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SPEAKER_00
Go release it.
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SPEAKER_00
Good.
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SPEAKER_00
And tap him on the head, and get a little wand, and say, you are free now.
1
SPEAKER_01
Now, you know, in Catholicism, we have the right of exorcism.
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SPEAKER_01
So we can take it that way and go back to that.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s part of the concept.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was seeing some old TikTok trend that I see.
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SPEAKER_01
We ll do a whole podcast episode on that.
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SPEAKER_01
It s a right.
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SPEAKER_01
It s a thing.
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SPEAKER_01
It s a real thing.
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SPEAKER_00
It was really good.
1
SPEAKER_00
You got another one there?
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SPEAKER_00
I got one more.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have one more.
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SPEAKER_00
I got one more.
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SPEAKER_00
Project managers, non-sellers, all have stories.
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SPEAKER_00
You have stories of people who worked with you.
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SPEAKER_00
You have stories of people who didn t work with you.
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SPEAKER_00
You have stories of things that went well on a project, things that didn t.
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I think you ve got an inventory of stories that you can start telling.
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SPEAKER_00
People love stories.
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SPEAKER_00
Have you heard of who Matthew McConaughey is?
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SPEAKER_00
Of course.
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SPEAKER_00
We need to get him for the podcast.
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SPEAKER_00
He s on virtually every podcast.
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SPEAKER_00
He is on every podcast.
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SPEAKER_00
We need to get him.
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SPEAKER_00
But he s a great storyteller his book, which I recommend it s called green light Green lights or red lights or red lights to green lights or something?
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SPEAKER_00
Anyway, I ve always liked him not just in the acting role But just as a human because he seems like he s a deep thinker and he is yeah, but he s a great storyteller and
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SPEAKER_00
He s got store whenever the interviewer asks him a question.
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SPEAKER_00
He doesn t lecture He says oh, you know that reminds me of when I was 12 years old and my dad did this Project managers and non-sellers you have stories.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, bring those stories out.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you got
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SPEAKER_00
Questions earlier.
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SPEAKER_00
What are the questions that you get but stories are those experiences that you ve had don t be shy and bashful about sharing those you don t have to reveal any names you can keep people anonymous but tell stories people love to hear stories and you have interesting stories because the stories you have everybody can relate to because everybody s been in projects that fail that that Have roadblocks that succeed wildly.
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SPEAKER_00
We ve all we all can relate to that for sure.
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SPEAKER_00
I
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SPEAKER_01
And they re so directly tied to the business that you re doing.
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SPEAKER_01
It s what you re doing.
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SPEAKER_01
So it s so right there.
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SPEAKER_01
It s really, really great.
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SPEAKER_01
You ve got to do that.
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SPEAKER_01
Last thing for me is don t put pressure on yourself to do this.
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SPEAKER_00
this alone.
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SPEAKER_00
I think when you re learning this and you re easing in, so you ve been exercised of your old thoughts about selling and you re a non-seller, you still have to wade into the water.
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SPEAKER_00
You have to go slow.
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SPEAKER_00
So I think the best way to do that is to do it in a small group, meaning maybe a couple project managers work together to go down the hall and have a conversation versus solo.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because the solo, people get scared to death, right?
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SPEAKER_00
If two of them go, it s less scary.
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SPEAKER_00
We can kind of hold on to each other, you know, like Laverne and Shirley.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the two non-sellers go to?
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SPEAKER_00
If they re going to prospect another division, let s say.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, OK.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, let s say they re working in one division of a customer.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, go together.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
And so have the two of them go instead of one, or go with a normal seller.
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SPEAKER_00
And just tag along with the seller and go to learn and get more comfortable before you just walk down the hall on your own.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s good.
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SPEAKER_00
Team sell it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s good.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Good job today.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s really nice if you have not joined our linkedin group Go to advanced selling podcast.com slash linkedin and that ll take you directly there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Make sure you join us We re going to be doing some more on linkedin next year.
2
SPEAKER_01
And we ve also uh, we re also crafting some
2
SPEAKER_01
You don t know it yet, Brian, but we re crafting some training opportunities for your team for next year.
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SPEAKER_01
We did a little bit of that later in the fall.
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SPEAKER_01
We did some goal-setting work with some people.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do we have any time left on that?
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SPEAKER_01
This is going to be released, okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, we re done on that.
2
SPEAKER_01
All done.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right, so go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you re a new listener, there s a recap there of the top episodes.
2
SPEAKER_01
So if you just joined us and you just found us, make sure you go to advancedsellingpodcast.com, check for new listeners, and we ll see you next time.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you, bye.