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Where do we start this?
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An answer doesn t matter.
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We re having a good time.
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He couldn t wait to get in here.
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You need sales balls to make sales calls.
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I m tweeting that puppy.
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Okay.
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Welcome to the Cellar Dye Podcast.
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We re your hosts, Jeffrey.
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And Jen Gietemer.
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I m the author of The Little Red Book of Selling and 15 other best-selling books and the creator of the seven-figure sales formula program.
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I grew up in Philadelphia, sold in New York City, but was smart enough to move to Charlotte, North Carolina.
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And I m the author of Sales in a New York Minute and creator of Breakthrough Business Babe Community.
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Fun fact, I m obsessed with our dogs and consider them humans.
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If you have a dog, you know exactly what I m talking about.
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SellerDai is for sales professionals, sales people, sales managers, entrepreneurs, and business owners who want to sell more at full price
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earn loyalty, and have an unlimited stream of referrals.
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Every single episode is gonna give you real-world, easy-to-implement solutions so that you can get your calls returned, your proposals read and acted on, all while creating relationships that you can take all the way to the bank.
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It s time to sell or die.
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We re joined today by Jill Walz, the great Jill Walz, and the great Doug Wing.
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Doug Wing s dad was Hal Wing, who invented and sold the little giant ladder.
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and thousands, millions of them.
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Doug was in charge of sales for an extended period of time there and sold millions and millions of dollars with the ladders.
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And Jill is a world-class editor who s taking Doug s compiled stories about him and his dad and turning it into a book called Giant Success.
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I m helping.
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And I wanted to bring to you a strategy that Doug has employed that I consider pretty damn unique in the book writing world.
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Doug has interviewed all of his dad s connections and his friends, the people that are still here, and gathered all these amazing stories, transcribed them all, and he and Jill are combining their talents to edit these stories, and they re unbelievable, literally.
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How do you feel when you were gathering those stories, Doug?
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Uh, well, it brought back a lot of great memories, of course, from, you know, my, my father and then also the, uh, the history of little giant and then, you know, the, just the working with him for over four decades and, and a little bit overwhelming, but, um, thanks to you and, and Jill, you know, I ve never written a book before, but, um, it s, it s really making it much easier to, uh, to have people help me along the way.
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and the lessons.
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I mean, look at all the life lessons that you were given by these people, some of whom were friends, some of whom were relative strangers, all of whom had a message that was impactful.
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What s your favorite story from the book?
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Just one or two that you can share with us.
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Well, I knew about quite a few of the stories, but I think the really neat experiences that I ve had along the way are learning the stories that I never knew existed.
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Because my dad was very, on the philanthropic side, he was very...
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not really secretive, but he wanted to remain anonymous, which I think is awesome.
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And so as I ve interviewed these people, some of them business employees, some of them just personal friends, I have learned some stories that were pretty amazing.
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I would say probably two come to mind.
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The first one is my father had this unique ability to know when people needed him.
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And he just happened to be in the right place at the right time in a lot of situations.
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And one of them was, and Jill will know this story, one of them was the story of Steve and Vicky, who were friends of my dad s and Steve was involved in a very bad industrial accident.
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was critically wounded at work and ended up in ICU and his wife tells the story of him being in the hospital and they re trying to save his life and his leg, his leg was severely cut and right below the knee and they were nervous that it was gonna have to be amputated and so he was rushed to the ICU and she said that the doctors and nurses are scrambling and trying to
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you know stabilize him and fix his leg and and other wounds that he had this machine exploded and there was shrapnel in his body and anyway she said out of the blue your dad just shows up in the icu works his way into the icu and she s like how how did you get in here and he looked at her and said that was easy i just told him that steve was my brother
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And, you know, so he just shows up and makes his way.
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I mean, my dad was a bulldog.
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He, I always say you either go around or over obstacles.
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I think he just plowed right through him, but he makes his way into the room.
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And, but yet he had this gentle side too.
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And, and, you know, he s trying to see what he can do to help.
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And Steve s just covered in black, you know, his face and his arms from this,
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this industrial explosion.
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And my dad disappears for a second, comes back with a washcloth, with soap and water, and he gently washes Steve s face and arms and hands.
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And then he leans down as he s getting ready to leave and whispers in Steve s ear, you really are my brother.
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And when you get out of this hospital, you re going to come to work for me.
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Now, yeah, the story continues.
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Steve loses his leg, they have to amputate his leg, and he s in depression.
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And somehow, someway, again, the day that he gets released out of the hospital, the first phone call he gets is from Hal Wing.
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And Hal Wing says, Steve, how are you doing?
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Are you ready to come to work for me?
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And Steve says, well, Hal, I lost my leg.
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I m just going to have to just sit home and do nothing.
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And my dad said to him, Steve, can you answer the phone?
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And he said, of course I can answer a phone.
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He goes, you re working for me.
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You ll be, you know, let me know when you re ready to come work for me.
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And he did, he came to work for our company, and he worked for us for probably 15, 20 years, retired.
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And again, he said, your dad knew somehow that I was out of the hospital that day.
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I was down, I was depressed, and somehow he had that, you know, the feeling, he called me, and the rest is history.
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And that s the kind of dad I had, a kind of a boss that Howling was, and a person he was, he just cared and loved people.
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So Jill, how the hell do you edit that story?
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You know, what was probably the most remarkable thing about that story was that Hal and the Curtis s were not super close friends before that.
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So it wasn t like they knew each other really well.
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Hal saw that they were in need and he went there as a brother and helped.
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And there are so many stories of Hal being of service to others
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to people who he either didn t know well or didn t know at all.
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Do you think that he had strength, gathered strength from being service to others?
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Oh, yes.
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I believe that.
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But my dad was, he believed in his heart of hearts that he was placed on this earth to serve people.
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And also he was
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he was convinced that the possessions, the money, the success that he had had was on loan from God to him.
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And that someday when he passed away and met his maker again, he was going to be asked, I blessed you with a lot of things.
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What did you do with those things?
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Did you help other people?
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Did you, or did you just, you know, buy nice things, you know?
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And so he believed, he said that, he said, this is not ours.
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This is not mine.
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This is on loan.
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And I m,
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and I know that I need to help people.
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He was a vessel.
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Not just with his money, but also it is the story we just talked about with his time and his being in the right place at the right time.
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So you hear these horror stories, well maybe you haven t but I have, of corporate and how at so
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many corporate offices, you re just a number and you don t matter.
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And they spit you up and chew you out and just how terrible they can be.
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And Little Giant Ladder sounds literally like heaven, like the place that everyone would want to go work.
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without all those horror stories.
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And so tell us about how your dad started that company.
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And I just had it dawned on me, like people who are listening may not even know.
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I know there might be a person out there that s never heard of Little Giant Ladder before, which is shocking, but they may exist.
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And so just in case, like give us the backstory.
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Sure.
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My dad was a high school graduate.
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He got married.
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We had four kids.
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My uncle died.
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They were going to take my three cousins in Nevada and divide them all up and put them into foster care.
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My dad said, this can t be done.
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So he adopted my cousins.
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My mom and dad adopted them.
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And at 26 years of age, my mom and dad had seven kids.
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with her education and my dad says I had to succeed you know there was a motivation there to be to be successful and he was a good he was good with people and he he worked for a life insurance company
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And at that time in the 70s, my father said he was earning equivalent to $100,000 a year, was doing pretty well.
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And since he spoke fluent German and was in the military, they asked him to open up an office in Germany, which he did.
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And one of his business partners that was also there in Germany, a man named Richard Minor, stumbled across the first version of a little giant ladder from a company called Waku.
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in Germany and he fell in love with it.
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And he kept bugging my dad and saying, you got to see this ladder.
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My dad s like, we re selling insurance.
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We don t have time to look at this ladder, but he wouldn t give up.
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And my dad finally saw it and he said, wow, this is pretty cool.
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Now, my dad, he, you know, he decided he wanted to get involved with this, with this ladder.
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And
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He met the inventor, a gentleman named Walter, and basically he worked out a deal where he could buy the ladders from him.
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And we went back to Utah and my dad pre-sold a container full of them.
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How many ladders are in a container?
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Oh, probably 40 or 50.
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And so he, you know, he gets out his legal pad.
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He goes and shows, he had one ladder with him, pre-sells them all, has their name, phone number.
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And then the container comes in and he goes and sees every one of these people.
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Now think about it, it s every one of them.
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And they all had an excuse why they couldn t buy it.
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They said, Oh, you know, I lost my job or my kids are in college now, or, you know, I ve had this, you know, we wrecked our car, whatever.
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So my dad goes, I had all these ladders and I couldn t,
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I couldn t sell them.
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He goes, man, I just had to start going to people s houses, to people s businesses, and trying to sell ladders that way.
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Then as he did that, he realized, okay, when you have a presentation, when you can show what the ladder can do, people buy.
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Then he started going to trade shows.
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home shows, home and garden shows, state fairs, and that s how the company took off.
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The first year himself, by himself, he sold a half a million dollars worth of $500,000 to the ladders the first year alone by himself.
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So he was a very good salesman,
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And then it just went from there.
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He started hiring people and the rest is history, so to speak.
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But what people don t realize is this was in 1972.
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Interest rates were crazy.
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And my dad s trying to sell a $300 ladder when you could buy one, he said, at Sears for $19.99.
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Uh, and so again, it wasn t easy and it took many many years I mean decades to do this and I think people nowadays especially young people They don t they want everything right now They want the big house the cars the money and they don t realize my dad used to say this is a marathon It s not a sprint And so you have to you know, you have to just keep plugging along and never give up So jill when you re editing these things are you as inspired?
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to edit them as we are to listen to them?
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You know, I probably watched 25 hours of video, everybody from associates to employees to friends and family.
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And what s overwhelming is the consistency of what people have to say about how, no matter what the story is, fundamentally, everybody says the same thing about,
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how much Hal loved people, how generous he was, what a great person he was, and how consistent he was.
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He was, whether somebody was looking or not, he was the same person.
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And you read these stories and you hear people tell these stories, and not only are you inspired,
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But you learn what you can do in your own life to be more like that.
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And I think that s what s going to be the value of this book is not only
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really giving people and showing people the legacy of HowlWing, but also tactically how they can put into play in their own lives, how they can be more successful, not only in their career, but in their family life, in their community life, and just being a better human being.
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It s at the very least inspirational, I think.
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Well, I can reinforce one thing.
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I ve been friends with Doug probably pushing 20 years.
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And consistently, he s one of the nicest, most honest, most honorable people I ve ever known.
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And
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he was raised the right way and took it from his mom and dad and then watched it manifest throughout his business.
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If his dad did one thing at home and one thing at business, it would not have been as impactful to Doug as it was where he saw home and business exactly the same.
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I mean, exactly the same.
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And I don t want to spill any beans, but your dad was a racer, a motorcycle rider, daredevil, doing anything he possibly could to try to harm himself.
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Literally, you know, he, but he was a liver of life to the fullest.
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Yeah.
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And you talked about that on your show this morning.
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Jeffrey is, he was always in a hurry.
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he would have little sayings like, take your time going, but hurry back.
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And then he would have a saying that said, he would say, we re burning daylight, let s go.
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So he was always in a hurry because he knew that there was only so much time in a day.
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And he walked fast, he rode motorcycles fast, he drove cars very, very fast.
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He expected everyone to do their best and to work hard and do it fast, but do it right.
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And he was big on quality.
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And you know, Jan, you mentioned, I d like to tell one more story if we have time about what kind of a boss, what kind of a boss he was.
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And I think Jill has the story, but if she doesn t, she s gonna have it right now.
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But we had this employee, he still works at Little Giant to this day, let s call him Mike.
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I ll just change his name.
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And- What s his real name, come on.
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Come on, what does it rhyme with?
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No, let s call him Mike.
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All right, go ahead.
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And by the way, actually everything s now in America, right?
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It s all made in America now.
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Some of it is, some s made in Asia, but a lot of it s still made in America.
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That s cool.
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But anyway, so this Mike that worked for us for many years, he got into a financial mess.
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And he came to the management team and said, hey, I m about ready to lose my house.
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I did some stupid stuff.
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And I did like a second mortgage on stuff.
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Is there anything you guys can do to help me?
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And, you know, so it was me and my brother and two other people on management team.
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We re talking about this and we re like, man, we re not a bank.
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I don t think we can help him.
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And just then my dad walks in.
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He s retired.
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He s still chairman of the board.
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He s like, what s going on?
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And we re like, hey, we re just talking about Mike here.
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This is the story.
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And my dad says, well, wait a minute.
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He goes, isn t Mike on the quarterly bonus system?
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And we re like, yeah.
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And he s like, how much does he make on his bonuses?
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And we re like, oh, this much.
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And he s like, has he made his bonuses all the time?
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and he needed this money within like two weeks or he was going to lose his house and my dad said give him the money he ll pay us back he s always made his bonuses just give him the money so we give him the money his house is saved he earns his bonus
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over probably a year and a half to two years, he pays the money back.
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And now I ask you this question, if you went into your boss, anybody, and went into your boss and said, would you give us this money and help us out of this situation?
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They would look at you and say, no way.
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And so- They d look at you like you were crazy for asking.
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Yeah, yeah.
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My dad always said that he couldn t do it alone and that the people
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you know, take, carry him onto the top of the mountain every day.
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But now you know why people loved Hal Ween, why they were loyal to him, why they would do anything for him is because they knew that he loved and cared about them and he would help them if he could.
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Yeah, that s so cool.
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And it s something that every single business owner that listens to our show should consider is, are you being a howling in your business?
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And that may not mean giving someone a loan for their house, but it means doing whatever you can do to support your people in your own way.
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Whether it s inspirational or financial.
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Yeah.
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I think too, to add to that, is that one of the things that set Hal apart as a business owner and as a boss was that he never expected any of his employees to do something he wasn t willing to do.
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Well into his 60s, that man was out in the manufacturing area putting together ladders with his people.
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So, you know, it was never a matter of, oh, he s the boss and he s way above us.
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He treated everybody the same and he really wanted everybody to succeed just like he succeeded.
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So he was out on the floor, he was talking to employees, he was getting to know them, he was genuinely interested in their families and what they had going on in their lives.
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He was actively engaged in every part of the business all the time.
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And it made all the difference.
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He had employees and still has employees that have been there 20, 25, 30 years.
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And that s almost unheard of in business today.
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It is.
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Yeah, for sure.
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You know, what I love about that story and diehards, you can t see this, but we can.
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Jill is just exuding passion.
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Like, she worked there, even though she, I don t even know if she s mentoring, but she feels so passionate about it from reading and watching all these stories and the lessons that you can take away and bring into your sales life and your business life and even your home life, that it s so cool to see that coming out of you, Jill.
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Yeah, it s been an honor.
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It really has been an honor to be part of this project.
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Cool.
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So Doug, you are a big part of the legacy.
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So what s next for you?
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Where do you take this book?
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What does that look like?
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How do we get a copy?
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All the things.
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Yeah.
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Tell us everything, Doug.
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Inquiring minds wanna know.
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Well, we re getting close and I really appreciate Jill, what she s,
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done because I couldn t do it without her.
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And I do appreciate you, Jeffrey, for guiding me along the way.
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You ve done this before.
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And I guess what I m saying to those listening today is it s scary to write a book.
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I go into bookstores all the time and I grab a book when I m getting ready to fly someplace and I love reading.
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but if you ve never done something like this before it can be a little bit intimidating but it is possible and um you know if you apply yourself and you have good people helping you along the way but and you have a i mean my story is is unbelievable and um little giant and a mentor i added my dad but so the plans are obviously to release this book in march and and um
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to take that book to companies, businesses, sales teams and help them to be more successful and develop a program where we can teach other people and companies and teams the principles and values of Hal Wing and Doug Wing and help them to be successful like we were successful.
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So that s kind of what s in the works right now.
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Hey, I m really glad you added yourself to that, like Hal Wing and Doug Wing, because legit, you, Doug, have so much firsthand knowledge, and you ve done it yourself in leading these teams, and what s your shirt say, Jeffrey?
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This is Arnold Shrive, and Doug sent it to me.
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Oh, I love that.
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No, but Doug, you re a huge portion of the equation, and while this book is a lot about Hal,
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There s a lot of Doug in there.
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There s a lot that, you know, you re owed credit for that you may not necessarily give yourself credit for.
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Yeah.
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So there needs to be one chapter that says, I m pretty damn good too.
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Yeah, I think what s important is I tell Doug, he s the steward of Hal s legacy.
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What is also included in the book is Hal built a great foundation for Little Giant.
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What Doug did is build on that foundation and take it to a whole other level with the exclusivity with Lowe s and some of these big clients that Little Giant now has as a result of
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Doug taking everything that he learned from HAL and using that to grow the company exponentially in all areas.
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There s a lot to be gained from a business perspective for anybody who wants to expand not only their own professional development, but add to the value of a company that they work for or a company that they own.
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For sure.
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I m so excited to read the book.
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I can t wait.
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SPEAKER_03
Is there somewhere we can go to sign up to get updates, or where can we learn more?
2
SPEAKER_01
Sure, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can go to dugwing.com, and when you go onto my page, there is a section that you can click on that says, get notified when my book is ready, and fill that information out.
2
SPEAKER_01
And we will, as soon as we re ready to go, we ll send you information on it.
2
SPEAKER_02
And diehards, don t forget to put that expiration date in there.
2
SPEAKER_03
So we will.
2
SPEAKER_03
I don t think they re collecting credit cards, but you can still give Doug your credit card expiration if you want.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
No, so Doug, I think we should have you on the show again and Jill and talk further once the book is done.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, when the book is in hand.
2
SPEAKER_03
You can show it and tell a few more stories because I know diehards want to know more and we ll put your link in the show notes for sure.
2
SPEAKER_02
And Diehard, if you want to send us your own little giant story, because I guarantee everybody has one, of how many ladders you ve used of little giant to paint your walls, fix your roof, clean out your gutters, whatever you ve done.
2
SPEAKER_02
No house is complete without a couple of little giant ladders, I know.
2
SPEAKER_02
We re in the half a dozen category because we live in a pretty big place, but little giant ladders hang out all over the place.
2
SPEAKER_03
They do.
2
SPEAKER_03
You never know when you re going to find one.
2
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_02
You never know when you re going to have to change a light bulb.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s what I always say.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s you know, as I drive down the road and
2
SPEAKER_01
I see our ladders on like Comcast vehicles and charter vehicles and things like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, I know who sold those ladders to these guys.
2
SPEAKER_02
The pride that s involved in this is not explainable.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s pretty cool.
2
SPEAKER_01
Even if I m on a date or something, the gal that s with me is like, man, you just look at ladders on trucks all the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m like, I did this for a long time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Some of my friends tell me, they re like, hey, I started looking at ladders.
2
SPEAKER_00
vehicles and stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
Doug s checking out the ladders.
2
SPEAKER_00
We need to have a book, like, where s Waldo, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Where s the little giant, you know?
2
SPEAKER_04
You know what?
2
SPEAKER_04
We do the same thing, though.
2
SPEAKER_04
We were on our way to church the other day, and there was a painter, just a pickup truck that a guy had his painting logo on the side.
2
SPEAKER_04
He had a little giant ladder in the back.
2
SPEAKER_03
Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
That s awesome.
2
SPEAKER_03
I love that.
2
SPEAKER_03
All right.
2
SPEAKER_03
Well, thank you guys both for being here.
2
SPEAKER_03
This has been great.
2
SPEAKER_02
You re welcome.
2
SPEAKER_03
Thank you so much.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s a pleasure.
2
SPEAKER_02
We ll talk to you soon.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ll be on my flipping light this afternoon myself, changing a couple of light bulbs.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ll send you a full report.
2
SPEAKER_02
Thank you so much for listening to Sell or Die.
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SPEAKER_02
We hope that this episode has helped you transform the way you think, giving you new ideas, and provided you a new perspective on the sales and business challenges that you face every day, so you can get out there and win the customer all the way to the bank.
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SPEAKER_03
If you enjoyed this episode, please take a second to rate and review.
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SPEAKER_03
Each review helps us help more people just like you make a difference in this world.
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SPEAKER_03
Don t forget to take a screenshot, share it in your Instagram stories and tag us at Jeffrey Gittimer and at Jen Gittimer.
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SPEAKER_03
See you next week.