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Let me be the first to welcome you back to the Pan Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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And I m Brian Neal.
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Trying to get a little creative there.
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I liked it.
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I like, no, I did like it.
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It drove my, you drove my energy up.
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Yeah, you were like, what s he doing?
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Oh, my God.
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Well, and I m also I we mentioned pre show I have so we live in the Midwest, Bill and I do.
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And allergies are a thing.
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And most people that live in our state, succumb to allergies, that a proper way to say that at some point in their life, and I ve been fighting off that, as I ve gotten older, but I haven t been having an allergy things my
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eyes are itchy and watery and groggily and I might snort and sniff.
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So I warn the listeners in case Travis can t remove one of my snorts.
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Yeah, the sound effects that come with an allergy are impressive.
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They re not good.
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They re not good.
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And you think the guy s dying or something.
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You re like, are you OK?
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Did you swallow a bowling ball?
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Like, what is wrong with you?
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It s awful.
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Yeah, and then we re like, oh, does he have COVID?
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Oh my gosh.
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My kids were, they did this workout for football, this college workout thing.
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And they do a lot of conditioning stuff.
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as I don t know if it was like when you were in high school, but high school football, when I was in high school, kids puked sometimes because they work so hard.
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So I went out to watch this, like the last spring practice in this poor kid is puking.
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And then he s just, this is really gross, but he s like, he s got.
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blood running out of his nose and snot.
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And I thought, I m like, and he was like, you re right.
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He s got, and he kept going, I m fine.
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I m good.
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I m like, dude, you re not good.
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Like everything from your inside is on the outside now.
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And you re not, but the, the, the little ego in the high school football is I m fine.
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I m good.
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Like, well, I respect that.
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I respect his, uh, stamina there because it used to be, you know, showing our age here and just the way I m positioning it.
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But,
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The coach really didn t care about what you were throwing up.
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I mean, he really didn t care.
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And when you wanted water, the coach would say, sorry, we re not taking a break.
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We ll take a break in 30 minutes.
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Now, even in Little League, it s like, oh my god, we re going to have a water break every five and a half minutes.
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These kids are running over.
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I need water.
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No, you don t.
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You re not even sweating.
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You haven t worked off the water you had five minutes ago.
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That is all I m glad to hear.
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I m glad to hear that there s at least one player out there.
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Well, I m good coach.
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I m good.
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I m fine.
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That s just perfectly normal for me.
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No snot and blood coming out of my nose and I m fine.
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I m fine cuz I m tough cuz my dad s a Gen Xer.
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Yeah, right.
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That s so that is true.
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Like if there s any little
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Yeah, we re breathing too hard.
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We have to take a break.
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That s true.
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I didn t think about that.
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You re right.
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Well, we ve got into, we ve gotten into that.
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Uh, hydration is the Holy grail and I m not saying it s not important, but you re probably not going to get dehydrated after 10 minutes on a football field.
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Cause remember, I mean, nineties, two a days, 90 degree temperatures and all that equipment.
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I mean, I never played, but I saw these guys come in and they looked, they looked like they were,
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Yeah.
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Near death.
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Near death.
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Which they were, but no one cared back then.
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Yeah.
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Nobody cared.
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All right.
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Yeah, topic today.
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I was thinking, we didn t really spend a whole lot of time talking about this pre-show, but I thought it would be an interesting topic if we could share with our audience some of the things that we
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ask prior to an engagement, whether it s somebody joining one of our small group coaching programs, maybe a sales professional, or maybe it s a VP of sales or CEO getting ready to bring us in.
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What are some of the questions that we ask?
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And we wanted to give you this because these are questions you should be asking yourself, or if you re a VP of sales, you should be asking yourself about your team.
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And so we want to just kind of open the veil a little bit and share with you what we want to know as we start working with people, and it can help you.
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If it can help you, we d love for that to happen.
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And I said it s timely because I actually have a sales call right after this that I prepped for on Friday and did a little more prep this morning.
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But this is going to give me some more, I m sure, at some point to think, wow, that s a good idea.
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You want me to start with some thoughts here?
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Yeah.
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Do we want to do just general or do we want to partition it to VP of sales, CEO, decision maker?
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Well, what you re talking about is more of a sales process.
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I m also talking about once, once it s in, once they say, yes, Brian, Bill, come on in, let s do this.
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Then we get to know the team and what do we ask the team to?
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So it can be both.
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You re thinking post sale.
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Yeah, I m thinking post-sale.
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Post-sale.
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I was thinking pre-sale.
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Well, let s do both.
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Can we do both a little bit?
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Yeah, sure.
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Is that all right?
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Yeah.
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We ll do pre-sale first.
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We ll do pre-sale first.
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So funny, even that you said that the, I just wrote, I ve never said this before.
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Like it just like popped on my whiteboard here.
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I wrote down the, so you can remember it.
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The term is lap.
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I want to know the lap.
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The LAP is the Level Appropriate Perspective, or LAP as I call it, as I started calling it 60 seconds ago.
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Level Appropriate Perspective.
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And this is interesting because I love the idea of getting perspective from all levels early on.
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And too often, we tend to focus on just the C-level perspective.
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And I think it s important to go, so if I go on this call today, which I am, so I ve got three owners, an HR person, so three Cs, VP of HR, one of them is VP of sales, then there s a sales manager who will be in the room also.
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And I won t have any of the sales people.
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But this lap is making me think of, okay, the questions that I d wanna know from the,
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CEO owner slash chairman or whatever might be slightly different than that sales manager who s managing a team of 15 salespeople.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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And that the C-level person might have a strategic view of things like an exit plan for five years down the road.
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The sales manager is worried about making the quarter.
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So I think it s important that we get level appropriate perspectives from everyone involved in a process pre-sale.
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And not just focus on, oh, Bill s the CEO, so I m just going to focus all my attention toward him, especially when there s multiple people involved, which there almost always are.
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Yeah, and I think that when we have multiple people, it s really good for the CEO or the top level person to hear how we interact with his or her staff and team, because we re going to ask questions that are going to bring to light things that he or she s not even really familiar with and maybe didn t even know we re happy.
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You mean we only closed 22% of our deals?
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Are you kidding me?
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I think the questions that we ask at the appropriate level are important for everybody to hear.
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It s even more important for you to hear up rather than down.
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Like, I want the CEO to hear when I ask the VP of sales a question, and they don t know how to respond.
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Gosh, that s awesome.
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And that has nothing to do with the fact that you and I are in sales coaching business.
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Every business.
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It impacts, right?
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It doesn t matter what you do, that person will observe how you approach their business and say, I don t just want that person s software.
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I want that person in our midst.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah.
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Because they think well, they ask great questions, they ll challenge us.
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So the people that are buying from you, listener,
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are buying the process and you as part of the package.
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It s part of the package.
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It s really great.
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Yeah, and I also think that, and we ve talked about this on episodes, a lot of episodes, that we want a full range of perspective from people inside your prospect company who care about the problem to be solved, care about your solution.
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They have a vision for how they want things to work.
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I want their perspective because
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You could get somebody who typically sits in the back of the room and doesn t say much, but you say to them, hey, what do you think, Brian, about this?
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And they will come up with this magic.
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And everybody will look at him and say, yeah, that s exactly.
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Yeah, he put it.
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And if you don t have all the perspectives, you don t get a chance to harvest that.
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And so I love this idea of perspective in a room and just finding out,
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what people s perspective on the problem is.
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You know, we talked, CEO talked about this.
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What do you think, VP of sales?
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What s your perspective on that issue?
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Well, I take a little bit different.
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Okay, great.
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Let s hear it.
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So I love that.
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It s really, really good.
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Yeah.
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And that s probably in terms of just like framing it up for the, for the sale, kind of the pre-sale before we get anything, that s a, that s just a great way to show up
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to a meeting and you think of, what do I want to know?
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And I love this idea, just like a broad perspective from all levels, level appropriate perspective.
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And I did also write on the board, just I wrote the PEM, P-E-M, which stands for personal emotional motive.
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just to make sure that I m not just getting data in my discovery pre-sale.
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Make sure I m tying some element of feeling or opinion to that.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Right?
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Because people, it s so funny, I had a kind of an aha.
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God, I hate when I say that.
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I think it took a longer time to do it than it would today.
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The guy who wrote it said he s locked in his basement.
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He went absolutely crazy.
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He can t come out, totally.
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But we make these assumptions about data that we hear.
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So I was in a sales call, and the CEO had said, well, we had a record quarter and three record months in a row.
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And I m like, that s awesome.
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He said, no, it wasn t, because we missed our goal by 10%.
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I m like, okay, sorry, my bad.
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Good lesson to learn, like, okay, just cause you hear like, you know, records, that doesn t necessarily mean that s what they re after, you know?
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So you gotta tie some opinion or feeling to any data point you re making in discovery.
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So.
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I also had one thing to add to your lap.
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Yeah, yeah, please.
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It sounds a little weird, a little awkward.
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Am I blushing?
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Oh yeah, okay.
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My lap s full, go ahead.
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level, appropriate, rich perspective, otherwise it was LARP.
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We could LARP, yeah.
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What does LARP mean?
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I don t know.
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Isn t that a, like a, yeah, LARPing, isn t that like a, oh God, isn t that like a, it s a cultural, it s like in the dictionary now, LARPing is when a person, live action,
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real play, it s where you like reenact, you reenact, I don t know.
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I don t know what it is.
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Uh, no, it s, it s, it s a little more current than that.
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Oh, that s funny.
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So what is LARP the thing, or are you just saying that to make the word up?
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Yeah.
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A type of interactive role-playing game, which participants portray characters through physical action, often in costumes with props.
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Yeah.
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Okie dokie.
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Yeah.
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So there s that s not what this is.
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So I just added the term rich there, because the rich part is the emotional part.
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It s not just data and intellect.
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It s feelings and emotions, because we can t forget that.
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So those are a couple of things that we would do at the highest level when we go in and start talking to potential clients.
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And I think that maybe we move now to the actual work.
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So now we ve done the deal.
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We ve got the deal.
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We start work.
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What are some things you want to hear from the team to be coached or trained?
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Because that s probably where a lot of our audience is.
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Yeah, for sure.
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It s I guess it s, it s similar.
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So what first thing I m doing, I m looking to validate what I heard so far.
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So we re, we tend to be told a story from a VPC level person or people, a group of people about how things are.
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And then we get into the work.
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And we realize that that s either accurate, like, yep, that s exactly what it was, or
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it s not what they said it was in for some way, in some way, shape or form.
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So the first thing I m thinking to do is to validate what I ve already been told, and then to see how far off we are and in which way.
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So an example would be if, yeah, in our world, if the sales leadership and the owners were saying or the C level people were saying, our sales team lacks accountability.
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That s a common thing we hear.
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Our sales team, we just lack accountability.
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And then I go hang out with the sales team, and I see them doing all these high accountability behaviors.
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They re having like, you know, accountability meetings with partners and stuff.
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I m like, what, I wonder where this is coming from?
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Sure seems like they re doing the work to me.
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Or vice versa, if they say we lack accountability, and that we go and observe the sales team like, yeah, these people sort of just come and go as they please and do what they want.
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So I understand.
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So that s the first thing I m looking for.
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I m looking for alignment of whatever.
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Yeah, totally.
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Yeah.
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What about you?
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Yeah.
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I mean, starting at the, at the top level, I want to know why, why do they do this work?
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What, what s the true motivation behind,
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behind the work that they do to reach their goals or make quota.
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Because a lot of times, the CEO and the VP of sales don t really understand the inner motivations of their team.
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And they fancy that it s all about numbers and data and spreadsheets.
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And we are just motivated at a whole bunch of things at a deeper level than that.
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So I want to know from each of them, why are you doing this?
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What mission does this serve in your life doing this work?
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And if they can t come up with something, it s OK.
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But if they can t come up with something, then that might be step one is we help them get behind why they re doing this work.
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What is it connecting with emotionally for them?
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Some work is easy.
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Like what you and I do, it s not really hard to connect why we do this work.
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No.
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But if you re selling box cutters to Lowe s,
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How do you reconcile the apparent meaningless of the product with the meaning of a life that you re living to sell this product?
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There s always a connection.
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And so I want to know a little bit.
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That s kind of deep, but that s one thing I want to know up front.
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I love that.
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I think it s great.
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I don t know if this goes along with that.
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The other thing I want to know, as close as I can individually, but as the teams get bigger, that s harder to do.
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Culturally, though, I want to know,
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the team s openness to learning and growing.
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Generally speaking, if I can get it down to the person even better, our experience, my experience in our world is as the generations have shifted, the millennial and Gen Z group is generally
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more open to coaching and guidance, and in fact, in some cases, demand it.
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So the cultures these days seem to be better at more attuned to learn and grow, where when I started in this business in the mid-90s and you in the 80s, it was like a lot of people had it figured out.
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There was a lot of resistance coming in that I know what I m doing.
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Prove it to me.
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It s like that.
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Still, that exists in places.
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There are a lot of people that
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you know, think they ve got things figured out.
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So that d be another checkpoint is openness to learn and grow.
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That s good.
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Because I think for the over, let s just say over 40, over 45 person,
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One way I get to that pretty quickly is they probably do have a lot of life figured out.
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They ve been in sales for 5, 10, 15 years.
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They have a lot of technical expertise.
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I don t go down that path because I know what I m going to get.
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I m going to get them saying, oh, no, I m open.
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I m very open.
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But I ve been doing this for a long time, and we know they re not open.
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where I always try to get some access is, tell me about digital technology.
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How are you using it?
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And how do you see it possibly leaving you behind if you don t learn it?
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And they re very willing.
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It s like, oh, yeah, I already feel behind.
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So I can open up their coaching DNA or their coaching cells there a little bit by going down a path that I know they feel far behind or falling behind on.
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that digital thing.
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And that might be a question for you, listeners, is how do you feel about your ability to keep up digitally with digital automation, online, all the stuff that would fall into that category of digital excellence?
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This is a good topic for our listeners to think about, too.
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And this is going to sound a little snarky, and maybe it s snarky on purpose.
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One of the techniques that I ve instilled.
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Well, you talk about my lap and everything.
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Especially when you re sniffling and snorting out of it.
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It s a prove it to me thing.
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So a lot of people will say things like, oh, no, I m pretty good.
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You know, I m good on LinkedIn.
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And so I say, cool, can you please share your screen, go to your page and open your activity button?
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Oh, first of all, they don t know how to do that.
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Right?
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Right on the screen.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Screen share, maybe in Zoom.
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But then if I say, then go to your LinkedIn profile, go to your activity, and let s just scroll down and look.
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And what we almost find there is they haven t posted anything in 90 days.
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But they told me that, oh, yeah, they re pretty active on LinkedIn.
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What they meant was they scroll through and occasionally like things.
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Yeah.
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I said, you know, I ll do the people say, do you have a business plan?
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And everyone s like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Okay, cool.
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Bill, I saw you nodding.
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Can you please pull it up real quick?
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So I m sure it s right there in front of you.
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And share screen and show it to us.
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Well, well, I mean, I ve got one.
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Yeah, it s in my head.
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I mean, I know what I m doing.
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I mean, you know, and so if you re listening to this, and this is meant to be just a personal accountability thing.
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If you couldn t be on this call with me and Bill, with Bill and me,
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and share screen and show us that business plan, then you re not there yet.
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And so just surrender to that and say, yeah, you know what?
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I ve jotted some stuff down.
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I don t have it organized in a plan.
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No problem.
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That s what we help you do.
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That s the good part, right?
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Yeah.
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So is that too snarky?
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Is that too?
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No, it s not at all.
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In fact, I was working with a coach here last year for my business.
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And I m not a great planner, but if I have a meeting with somebody and I know they re going to be asking me about my plan or about something, I will make damn sure that I ve got what I need.
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need.
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And he made the comment to me, he said, you know, and I took it as a compliment, but I don t think he meant it that way.
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He says, 90% of the people don t show up with this.
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They say they have a plan, but they really don t.
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And so this is not us talking, Brian and Bill here.
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This is kind of standard for the industry of coaching and training and self-development is most people just don t have a plan.
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So if you don t, like Brian said, there s no shame in that.
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Just build one.
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Right.
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And get it down to one page.
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And we ve done, you know, we did an insider on the one page business plan last year.
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If you join, you can go back and listen to that.
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If you don t want to join, just look up Google one page business plans and they re all over the place, but you need to have something so that when some, if somebody asks you, you can pull it up just like that.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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And yes.
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Anything that we re talking about a question bank, a tool, a prep sheet,
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your LinkedIn activity, you should be able to prove, yeah, here s my thing.
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Here it is.
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I can show it to you really quickly.
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Give me a couple seconds to pull it up, and I ll show it to you.
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And then on the flip side, if you don t have it, you just say, I don t have that.
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All of us can live with that, right?
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But this whole like, oh, yeah, I do.
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I m like, let s just, OK.
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OK.
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Do you have one more before we?
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I don t.
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That was my last.
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That was my last hurrah.
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You got one?
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Yeah.
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And we don t have time to get into a deep discussion on this, but I think there is a general lack of clarity about what people want.
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Like, for example, I ve got a, well, I won t go into that.
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Cut that out, Travis.
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I think there s a lack of clarity when you say, well, John, we re getting ready to go down this training path and coaching.
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And I m going to be here to help you.
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And we want to know a little bit about where you re going.
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Tell me what your ideal vision is a year or two or three out.
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People really struggle with that.
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What s the clear vision?
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And I don t mean like vision of saving the world.
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I m just talking about in your business life, your lifestyle, your business life, your income, how you get customers.
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I m going out to do a thing in Denver this week with a company and we re going to be in front of 30 specialists who just focus on one particular area of the business and they make a lot of money and their ability to make money is really uncapped.
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And one of the first hour exercises we re going to do is, where are you going?
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Because we could sit around and talk about techniques and strategies and LinkedIn and all that stuff.
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But where are you personally going in your business?
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You re at $200,000 now.
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You want to get to $500,000, you say?
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OK, great.
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What s the plan?
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What s the plan to get there?
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And I think we need to help people clarify the destination.
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That s beautiful.
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That last sentence, that s it.
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Clarify.
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And by clarify, and I m a huge, huge, huge fan.
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I do this all the time.
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I have my whole life, well, since I was
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freshman year in high school, write this stuff down.
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You gotta write it down.
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It s gotta be on there.
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And you can also, this is cheap.
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I did this with something.
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I have a business that, not a side business, but a business that I want to build and sell it.
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I have the closing date on my calendar, four years from now.
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2026, whatever, or four and a half years in December.
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Sorry, I have no idea.
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I m probably, well, how do you know that s gonna happen?
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I m like, I don t, but I do, because it s in my calendar.
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It s the closing of that business.
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So it s like, okay, write this stuff down, Bill, so it s so clear the clarity of where we re going, written down.
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So if you are not a LinkedIn member, we d love for you to be.
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You can go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn.
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It takes you right to the LinkedIn group.
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Got many thousands of people there, and we d love to hear from you.
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So send us a note there.
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That s usually the best place to reach us.
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If you have a topic idea or a very severe critique of Brian s grammar or anything.
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SPEAKER_00
I did screw up from grammar.
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SPEAKER_00
The me, I. I corrected myself, but it was a miss.
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It was a miss.
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You less, the me, I. Yep.
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All right, see you next time.
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Bye.
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Bye.