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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill shares a rarely heard of flight story.
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My high school boys, D.B., Hogan, Foltz, Kenga, Grayski, Butch, and Combser all inspire our topic today, do relationships really matter?
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast.
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I m one of your hosts, Bill Kasky.
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I m the other host, Brian Neal.
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Good morning, Brian.
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You like that?
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It s my DJ voice.
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That s very good.
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Very good.
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Sunny.
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It s hot.
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It is humid here.
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The spring turned to summer pretty quickly.
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Hey, I was out in Denver here a week or so ago, and I ran into some people that knew you.
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Yes.
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One person, namely Rachel Lyman.
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Hi, Rachel.
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Who s been a friend of the podcast for many years.
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Many years.
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And she used to kind of run the table in the Chamber of Commerce arena.
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But now she s moved on.
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So it was good to meet her.
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And she s a big supporter of the podcast.
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She is.
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And she s one of those people that have, I just really enjoy what she s done with her career.
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And she really started, if you talk to her, she ll say, kind of all started, you know,
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feeding her mind sales-wise with the advanced selling podcast.
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And now look at her.
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Now she s, what, does she own Denver?
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Is that her deal?
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She owns Denver.
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Rachel owns Denver.
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Rachel s the CEO of Denver.
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What do you do?
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I m the CEO of Denver.
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I m like, oh, good for you.
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She owns Denver.com.
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She does.
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Squatting, squatter.
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She should.
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But anyway, we were out there, and so I had a chance to meet her.
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But one thing, funny, and you travel.
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You re a seasoned traveler.
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I m not.
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OK.
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But you travel a lot.
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That s fair.
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I do travel a lot.
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I travel once a month, maybe.
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I m a travel snob, not seasoned.
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I m a snap, but good.
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You ve probably had this happen.
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But here s the deal.
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I fly from Indianapolis to Denver on Frontier Airlines.
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I m not a big Frontier fan.
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It was OK.
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They do OK.
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I ve been on it before.
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So departure time, 11.12 AM.
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Got to the airport an hour early.
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They said start boarding at 10.40, a half hour before.
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And I was in there.
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And it was a full flight.
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And so I boarded.
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And I was kind of reading and doing some things and listening to an old episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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No, not really.
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So I wasn t really paying much attention.
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Got on, fastened my seat belt.
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Seemed to get up in the air pretty quickly.
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There wasn t a lot of instruction on how to fasten a seat belt.
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Looked at my phone when we just took off.
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It was 11.03.
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Huh.
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So it s an 11-12 departure.
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And my phone was right, by the way.
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They left 10 minutes early.
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Have you ever heard of that?
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I actually have.
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You have?
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You know when it happens a lot is Saturday nights, sometimes also Sunday nights.
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But Saturday nights, crews tend to, I don t know if they call it deadheading.
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I don t know what that means in aviation.
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But they go home.
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Essentially.
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Deadhead, I think, means they go one way and they get stuck there.
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And they will do that.
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On Saturday night flights, when I used to ref in the Big 10, we d come home Saturday night.
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They would be hustling to get out of there.
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And if everyone was on, they re like, everybody s on.
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We re going to go.
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Well, that s what it was probably.
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It could be.
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Everybody was on.
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Yeah.
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And they re like, why not?
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But I m just thinking of the guy who runs up to the gate.
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Yeah, at 1109.
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Who sees it taken off.
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Just broke up with his girlfriend and changed his mind.
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He s going to fly back out to Denver and ask her to marry him.
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He s like, wait, wait.
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He s like, wow, I ve never experienced that before.
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That s great, though.
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Because my dad used to always tell me, a bus can always be late.
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It can never be early taking off or leaving.
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Oh, yeah, yeah.
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Because people, you know.
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A plane or a bus?
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A plane, bus.
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Well, this was kind of like a bus.
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Frontier.
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Never taken off on a bus before.
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That s funny.
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But so it was interesting.
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But anyway, that was interesting.
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It was good.
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I loved it.
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Don t hear too many stories about being early.
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You hear lots about being late.
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That s great.
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So we know, Brian, that a lot of people who listen to the Advanced Selling Podcast are rock stars in their own right.
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They have joined forces.
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So if you re a top sales performer and you want more out of 2018 than years past,
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Take the first step.
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Visit CenturyLink.com forward slash advanced selling and join the talent community.
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That s CenturyLink.com forward slash advanced selling to join the talent community.
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Beautiful.
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Topic today is an inspired topic.
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And I ve been waiting a long time to do this, Bill.
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This summer, this is the year 2018, I have a class reunion coming up.
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Do you have a guess of which class reunion I have coming up from my high school?
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High school class reunion.
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Oh.
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It s number.
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25, 30.
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No, it s very nice of you.
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It s 30.
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30?
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30 year.
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1988 was the year I graduated from high school.
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And I have a little text trail, as a lot of people do, with a lot of my high school buddies.
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There are some of them, not all of them, most of them, actually, if I m looking at the list, are very accomplished business people.
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And we banter like a lot of guys.
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This is a guy thing, I think.
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We banter a lot, kind of tease each other.
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And so they occasionally, and a lot of them have listened to the podcast, but they ll joke and tease me about the podcast.
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What will they say about it?
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Oh, they ll say, like this weekend, one of the guys said that he was talking about going to a big event, like a self-improvement event.
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He said he didn t have enough money for the one that we were talking about.
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So instead, he went to the advanced selling podcast event and took his national sales manager, who slept through the whole thing, which was all fake.
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But it was just kind of what we do.
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That s funny.
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So I ve been waiting for, and since we re talking about the, which I m not going to the reunion, by the way, because we found out, we re from Southern Indiana.
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The reunion we found out, I found out last night, it s in a bowling alley.
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Oh, of course.
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So of course, it s in a bowling alley, which is nice for the people that are going to go.
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I m a little bit past the bowling alley.
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So we talked about doing a podcast today about the idea of relationships.
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And relationships is a buzzy thing.
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My high school buddies, we re all still really good friends.
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We ve got, I think there are eight of us still that text on a pretty much regular basis.
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And so I thought, what do relationships mean these days?
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We hear all the time, Bill, relationships are what it s all about, right?
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Relationships matter.
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And do they?
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And there s a lot of buzz out in the marketplace.
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So we re going to do, inspired by my high school boys, a show about relationships today.
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That s our deal.
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So which one of your buddies far outpaced your expectation of him or her?
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Oh, this is fantastic.
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But probably him.
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Other than me?
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Yeah, other than you.
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You know, I got to tell you, when you look down the list, we all did.
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Everybody did.
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If you would have followed us around with a GoPro camera back when we were ages 10 through 18, you would have said, these guys are all on a dead-end one-way street, man.
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Speaking of dead-end.
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Dead-end one-way.
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No, they ve all done really well.
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Good.
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Yeah, they ve done really, really great.
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All of them have.
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And they re a great, great group of guys.
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There s something about high school that s different than college.
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I hang out with some college buddies, some high school, but it s just different.
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And it s not better or worse, but the high school, it s like those years we remember so much.
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So much.
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College, a little hazy.
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A little hazy because they re 22.
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And then people from college just tend to disappear.
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You re like, where did that person go?
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You never, ever see him again.
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We re the high school, and you ve got home.
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It s like there s a kid.
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Your parents are there.
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There s all the stuff that goes along with it.
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And is it me, or do I remember all the high school music better than I remember the college music?
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For sure.
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There s no doubt.
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I mean, what was popular during 2011?
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There s no doubt.
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Yeah, there s no doubt.
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So our memories were not ruined by alcohol.
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No, and other substances, yeah.
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Okay, so here s my thought about because I do hear what you just said about it s all about relationships And I think we tend we have people in our lives or maybe we default to that and I don t know that it s I don t know that it s not all about relationships, but I think it s one element and so maybe the way we can start this is to define what
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what you and I might mean by relationship and how we can use that definition to maybe build better ones with our clients.
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Yeah.
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And I mentioned in the pre-show, I m doing a little work with some of my clients around the challenger sale.
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In the challenger sale, they ve got a lot of research about their theory.
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One of the things they do that I think is a mistake is they debunk this idea of the relationship seller
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And I think they ve missed with the definition of what a good relationship is.
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So when I m teaching this, this is what kind of inspired this today.
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I always say to my clients, and if you re listening as a podcast listener, think about this.
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All of us have a best friend.
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So my best friends are on this text trail.
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And I can guarantee you the reason these guys are my best friends is because they will always tell me the truth.
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They ll always be straight with me, and they ll always welcome me back, and they ll always love me no matter what I do.
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That s a good relationship right there.
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Where I think in sales, we ve always been down this path of, well, the good relationship is the guy or gal you go golfing with, or you know their kids really well.
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People say, well, I know their kids  names.
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That makes a good relationship.
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I know their kids  names.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I don t know their kids  names.
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I look it up.
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I review their kids  names every time I go to make a call.
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So I think you ve got to look at the idea of what someone is able to say to you and what you re able to hear from them as your definition of what a good relationship is.
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And I think that s got to be brutally honest.
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honest, that thing.
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So I ve got three or four things here that I don t know if this is a definition, but it s like attributes of a good relationship.
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So number one is I think that a good relationship begins when you can create an element of safety around it.
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So if you re calling on a prospect, then you making this conversation a safe place for them.
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And I m not talking safe spaces.
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I m just talking a safe conversation.
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where they are willing to tell you what their pains and issues and problems are, then that s a good start to a relationship.
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No doubt.
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Versus the amateur salesperson that just ever shuts up, just keeps talking.
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Correct, yes.
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So number two, do you want to comment on that?
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No, the only thing I was, I want everyone listening to think about that safety thing Bill s talking about, starting with you first.
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So do I feel safe going in?
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Because if you feel uncomfortable and angsty, you re going to put that energy off.
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Where if I ve got some big life issue, and I go to any of these guys on this text trail, I m clean.
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I m good.
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I m not worried about what they re going to think of me.
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I m not worried about if they re going to reject me.
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None of that is there.
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I have total safety going in.
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And so think about your side of the safety.
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So it s easier for you to create safety with them, because you feel it.
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I feel it already.
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You re not faking it.
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No, no.
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That s good.
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Correct.
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That s really good.
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So the point there is that if you are in prospecting mode, and if you want to develop relationships, you ve got to create some safety.
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The second thing is here, I ve got interest and curiosity, meaning you really have to be interested in what their issues are, their problems, their pains, their frustrations, their goals, their aspirations.
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And I think it s more than golf, because how many times on the golf course do we really get to talk about that?
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That s right.
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And so I think that great relationships begin when you are caring enough that you ll have the courage to say, well, tell me, Brian, what are some of your goals over the next year or two?
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Yes, and mean it.
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And mean it.
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And mean it.
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And listen to the answer.
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You re sincerely interested in that.
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That s really, really good.
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I have one written down here.
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I wrote down healthy boundaries.
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A good relationship contains healthy boundaries.
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So when you think about your clients, and specifically your prospective clients, how and in what way do you maintain healthy boundaries with people?
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And that could be everything from price to delivery elements that people ask for.
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Are you someone that just throws things in because they ask for it?
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Are you someone that says, OK, yeah, sure.
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A lot of people think that that is investment in a relationship.
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And sometimes it s not.
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Sometimes it s like, no, we can t cut that out, because no, you need to pay full price, or you need to do the full service deal, because it s the right thing for you.
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And I would tell my best friend that.
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And I would tell them when they don t, too.
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I would tell them when they don t, too.
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But I m clean on that.
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So I ve got some boundaries around that.
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I ve got boundaries around following the process, calling back, and making a decision.
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I m not going to meander.
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That sort of thing.
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So I wrote the word down, no appeasement.
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And I think that when we appease and we try to play nice, that doesn t always bode well for the relationship.
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So like you talked about, Brian, I need 20% off of this.
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And we think, oh god, we re trying to build a relationship, so I guess we ll take it in the shorts and we ll give them the 20%.
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And that, to me, that
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Now I resent the guy.
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That s no good for the relationship if I m resentful.
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So I think you can be strong.
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You can still create safety.
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You can say, look, I would love to do 20%.
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It s just not in the cards.
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If that means you re going to have to go elsewhere, I totally understand.
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I want you to be happy and pleased.
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I want you to feel like you ve got a great deal.
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If you don t feel like you ve got a great deal, the price I quoted, then it s not right for either one of us.
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And that, then,
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creates, you become empowered there.
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Yeah, full on.
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Versus resentful.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, I had that happen.
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I ve got a philosophy, like I have a service provider coming to my house to do some landscaping things.
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And the normal thing to do is to haggle with those people.
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And I didn t really want to do that.
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I felt a little compelled to do it because of some other things.
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And I m like,
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So I asked this guy for a discount, and he just gave it to me.
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And I felt almost dirty in the whole process, because I think what I would have rather done, because he might be resentful now, like, oh, gosh, this guy s kind of a hard, whatever.
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And it wasn t a hard negotiation.
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So he s going to cut corners.
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Totally.
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He s like, wow, this guy s going to watch this.
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I probably said, hey, man, I m going to pay you full price.
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And instead of asking for more off, I m going to ask you to give me best effort, over-the-top stuff.
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I m going to pay you full what you asked, and not even ask you to take anything off there.
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But I want to see you go to the moon with it, dude.
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It better be perfect.
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Yeah.
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It s more aspirational that way.
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Yeah, I like that.
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It s like, well, or people come to me and say, well, my costs were higher, or I had to pay more for this mulch or whatever in that scenario.
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And he s crying for more money at the end.
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It just is bad.
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Yeah, so what you re talking about there is that I want to respect the people that I work with.
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Yes.
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And they also want to respect their customer.
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And respect isn t always built by caving.
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No, it s just not so appeasing and caving and and sometimes I wrote down here.
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Sometimes it s not even we don t even Nice doesn t enter it.
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It s not about being nice.
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No, it s about
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We are here to deliver value.
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They are here to solve the problem.
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So we collectively come together, and nice doesn t enter into it.
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I mean, I don t want to be mean and a jerk, but I don t have to always think, well, it would be nice if I could give him 10%.
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Right.
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It does not enter into it at all.
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And the other thing around this, I didn t have this written down, but now that we re talking about it, because this is another myth, this is going away, but it s still there, is likability.
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is that we think, OK, there s no part of me that is worried about being liked from my best friends I grew up with and or from my clients as much as it used to.
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Now, that s out the door.
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You can t control that anyway.
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So that s another thing.
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People always say, well, people buy from people they like.
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That s old, I know.
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But it s still there.
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And people think it s part of the relationship.
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People don t have relationships with people that they don t like.
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So people buy from people they like.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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And I would suggest that I will like somebody more if they deliver on the promise they ve built, versus the personality kind of like, oh, he s a great guy.
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We ve liked each other for a while.
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We ve been friends for a while.
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And so that s based on a personality, because we ve been in business together.
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But if you were a vendor of mine or I of yours, likability goes out the window in favor of competence, skills, follow-up, those kinds of things.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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I mean, even when we started together, had I not produced, you would have liked me just fine.
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But we wouldn t been working together anymore, because I didn t add any value to your firm when we very first started.
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you know, 21 years ago.
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So here s maybe the takeaways here is that we ve given you four or five things to think about.
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And as you progress in your year, and you talk to people, and you think about, well, where are my really good relationships?
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Take them through this filter and say, have I really been curious with these people?
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Do I really know their goals?
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Have I sacrificed respect for likability?
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And again, we re not going the other way and saying, you ve got to be a jerk.
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I know people who are just jerks, and they re not good salespeople.
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So we re not going all the way to the other side.
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But especially if you re in a position where you are an advisor to them, sometimes advisors have to be difficult.
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They have to be tough.
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They have to be indignant.
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They have to be.
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I mean, we re in that business a little bit.
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SPEAKER_00
You know that about it.
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SPEAKER_00
Good stuff.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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Inspired.
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SPEAKER_00
Shout out for my boys, DB, Grayski, Butch, Fultz, Kanga, Hogan, MC, you know who you are.
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SPEAKER_00
Thanks for inspiring another episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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SPEAKER_00
Another one.
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SPEAKER_00
Another episode.
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SPEAKER_00
Hey, if you want us to come see you, send us an email.
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SPEAKER_00
Listener to Advanced Selling Podcast.
1
SPEAKER_00
Put in a link, come see us, and Bill and I will come out and do it.
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SPEAKER_00
We re doing one of these live this week, actually.
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SPEAKER_00
Our client s having us come out and do a live recording.
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SPEAKER_00
We d love to do that for you.
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SPEAKER_00
Listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
1
SPEAKER_00
Come see us in the subject line and we ll make that happen.
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SPEAKER_00
Talk to you soon.
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SPEAKER_00
Bye.