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Hey, before we get started today, I want to tell you about a special masterclass we re hosting on December 13th called Winning the Buyer s Brain.
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Brian Gray will be joining Brian and I, and you can learn more about the masterclass at winningthebuyersbrain.com.
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We ve not done a live cast for a long time, and we thought this would be a really good topic.
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How do you position yourself in a way that compels emotional interest from the buyer?
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We want emotional interest because we know that s how decisions are made, not just intellectual interest.
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Our expert, Brian Gray, has studied neuroscience and will be sharing some simple ways you can use his approach to get attention.
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After all, attention is the number one currency today.
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Go to winningthebuyersbrain.com and enroll.
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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we provide our own non-political commentary on the midterm elections, and we channel Brene Brown and discuss the idea of courage in the sales function.
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Welcome, everybody, back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in sales training podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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And I m Bill Kasky.
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And we are here every week for your listening enjoyment.
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You re glad that you joined us.
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You re tight today.
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Huh?
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You re tight today.
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Good.
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Am I too tight?
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In the instant I stopped Kasky, you were right on it.
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That s OK, isn t it, in radio world?
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It s perfect.
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We ve got a big LinkedIn group.
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If you re not joined, if you haven t joined, join us.
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It s advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn.
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Or just go to LinkedIn and just type in Advanced Selling Podcast.
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Are we over 10,000 yet?
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We re creeping toward it.
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I don t think we re there yet.
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We need a big celebration.
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We ll get some confetti and some prizes, some fabulous prizes.
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And we ll share those with our 10,000th member.
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Go there.
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We ve got some cool, fun stuff to be talking about here soon.
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It s November 12th, Bill.
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That means that the election is over.
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Doesn t thank isn t goodness for those of you who are offshore in Australia or Europe.
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We just had our midterm elections and You know the thing that I find fine This is not this is a non-political observation of of elections and has to do with the commercials.
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Yeah, the commercials are
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A, annoying, B, hilarious, C, totally ineffective, I think, although I m sure the ad agencies would not say that.
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But can you imagine the windfall for ad agencies and voiceover announcers during election years?
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And TV.
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And TV, yeah.
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I ve got a couple clients in that business.
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Now, those markets are set.
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So there are special rates that they have to give so that there s not favoritism there.
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Still, they just load up and sell everything.
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Well, I heard, and this is a typical ad, is when the person talks, the voiceover guy talks about, or lady, talks about the other candidate, the opposing candidate, in derogatory terms, with really bad, dramatic music.
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And then halfway through, it changes to light banjo music, and we talk about our candidate.
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And I heard one the other day here in Indiana, where the guy, the VO, was talking about this opposing candidate.
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And it was a picture on the screen of this opposing candidate.
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And the announcer says, look at him there in that blue shirt.
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And then he goes on for a second.
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And then he says, he on his website even has a button that translates everything to Chinese.
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And I thought, OK, first of all, does the blue shirt really that much?
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I mean, is that devilish, the blue shirt?
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Should I stop wearing the blue shirt?
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White shirt, red tie, that s it, right?
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What is there about the blue shirt?
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But then when he said he even has a button on his website to translate a website to Chinese, hasn t that been available for like 20 years?
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I think Google has that, don t they?
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Don t they have a little button to translate into any language in the entire planet?
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I think by the end of the campaign, they re just looking for anything.
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Like that guy wears a blue shirt and our candidate wears a white shirt.
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Let s make fun of blue shirts.
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his part.
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Now I noticed something in our, and by the way, these weren t, this is a nonpolitical statement.
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These are observations.
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I did notice that one of the candidates here in Indiana running for Senate was always videoed driving his RV.
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Did you notice that?
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He s always driving his RV around the state.
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Nobody called him out on this.
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And I m the only one that I can find that noticed this.
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he never, ever had a seatbelt on.
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When he was driving his RV, there was never a seatbelt over his shoulder.
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And I think we re past the day of the lap strap only, right?
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The old school bus deal that s long gone.
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And so I don t know if he was just sitting and it was green screen, or if he s driving around, or maybe there s a special law with an RV, you don t have to wear your seatbelt.
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But nobody, I m like, how come no one is saying this guy s not wearing a seatbelt?
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Come on.
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Well, plus he was a sitting senator, so maybe there is a special.
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Who knows?
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You know, Brian, I know that you re a podcast junkie, as I am.
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There was one of my favorite podcasts, one called Finding Mastery.
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Michael Gervais is the host.
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And he s a performance coach, works with athletes and performers.
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He had Brene Brown on.
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You know who Brene Brown is, of course.
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One of my faves, Brene Brown.
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She did a TED Talk, I don t know, probably six or eight years ago, that s had 36 million views on it.
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And it was about shame and vulnerability.
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And she s written several books.
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Her newest one is called Dare to Lead.
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And with permission from Michael and his team, we clipped out about a 60-second piece of Brene s philosophy on what one attribute is important today.
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Here it is.
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Coming off the research I just came off of for Dare to Lead, seven years studying kind of
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really top-performing leaders across every, from athletes to Fortune 10 CEOs, civic leaders just across the board, asking one question, given the complexity that we re living in right now and what the future looks like, what s the one thing that you re going to be looking for in leaders?
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Like, who s going to be still standing as a leader in the next five years?
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And it was the first time I d ever done research where the answer saturated across every single participant.
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And without question, people didn t even hesitate.
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They just said, courage.
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We need braver leaders.
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We need more courageous cultures.
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You know, Brian, ever since the first time I saw Brene Brown, she did the TED Talk that has 36 million hits.
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It s one of the biggest, most watched TED Talk ever.
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She talks about shame and vulnerability.
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And I ve always liked her.
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I ve always felt like she speaks the truth.
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And she talks about things that no one else is talking about in the space of leadership and sales.
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But really, it s not just about leadership and sales.
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It s just about being a human being and how she frames everything up.
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is really powerful.
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She s fantastic.
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One of my favorites, I always prescribe her.
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If you can do that to my clients to listen to, especially when it comes to around the vulnerability piece and sellings, I think it s a really, really untalked about topic in the sales world.
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And like you said, her new angle now is she s talking about courage.
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She has a new book called Dare to Lead, where she talks a lot about that.
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And by the way, this clip came from a podcast that I listen to called Finding Mastery.
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The host is Michael Gervais.
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He s out on the West Coast.
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And he does some very high-performance coaching of athletes.
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And he s got a really good podcast.
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And Brene was interviewed on his podcast.
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They allowed us to steal that clip and use it here today.
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How do you spell his last name, do you know?
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G-E-R-V-A-I-S.
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It s like Gervais, only it s spelled the same, just pronounced differently.
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So what I thought we could do is talk about courage in sales.
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Love it.
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Since most of our audience is sales, but we do have a lot of leaders as well.
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So I think these things that we re going to come up with today could apply either way.
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There s no doubt.
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And I think, I personally believe that choosing the profession is the first courageous step.
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Because this is a profession that comes with a whole lot of up and down, a whole lot of perceived risk to people, I think.
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Different than some other things where you feel like I ve got stability in operations, or I ve got a,
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a skill set, so I m an accountant, so I ve got a skill.
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Those are all great things.
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Sales, there s no real, there s no accreditation for it, per se.
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You don t go become a lawyer, doctor, CPA, or you don t become a salesperson that way.
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There s a lot of them out there.
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And by and large, most people don t look at that as a favorable thing.
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So when you say you re a salesperson, it kind of comes with a little bit of a loaded
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definition of people s minds, in my opinion, and perception.
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Isn t that strange?
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It is.
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It s very odd to me.
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And it s been that way for generations.
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And you would think that here we are, 2018, where we re hopefully more evolved.
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We ve come down from that dilemma of, how do I become something that I m kind of disgusted by?
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But in the young community, the 20-somethings, there s still this thing about, well, you know, I really don t want to get in sales.
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I m not cut out for sales.
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And I m like, you re not cut out for building relationships.
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You re not cut out for caring for people, for solving problems, for finding problems.
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You re not cut out to do that.
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And of course, we know that s just how they look at it that s the problem.
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Yeah, it s a very interesting thing.
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So I ve got a few things written down.
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I like that first one, though.
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I think the first one is just courage to even be in the profession.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
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Well, before we get to that next point, Brian, the holidays are right around the corner.
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are, and I know how you hated Halloween, but I also know how you love Christmas.
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Yeah, I ve got one here.
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Well, I guess that was the first one.
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Here s my number two is the courage to create.
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There was a book back in the seventies by a guy named Rollo May, and it was called the courage to create, and it was built for, it was constructed for creative types.
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But I think we re all creative today.
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I think this idea, well, I m not creative.
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I m going to go into sales where I don t have to be creative.
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Well, you have to be more creative in sales because you ve got to figure out how to get to the right people, how to say the right things, how to create your pitch, how to create your PowerPoints.
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You are really in a creative spot.
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And yet, I think we see creativity as something that we run from.
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And even when it comes to content, you know, Brian, you and I are always asking people to create content, create articles on LinkedIn, create videos, create podcasts.
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And yet I think it takes a lot of courage to actually say, okay, today I m going to write an article and I m going to press send or submit or publish.
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That takes a lot of courage, especially if you re not used to doing it.
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It does.
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And if you pay attention to Brene, you ll in her original work that we not her first original work, but the ones that most of the world saw about vulnerability, the same thing, same theme is there that you put yourself out with with an article or with a blog post or a video or an audio.
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You re putting yourself out for the world to see and listen to and to judge then.
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And so you ve got to be square inside before you can do that.
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And I think that s the inhibition that people have.
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It s like, oh, well, what if it s no good?
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What if people don t like it?
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I mean, no one likes this podcast, but they keep listening.
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They do.
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We don t like doing it.
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They don t like listening.
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That s so not true.
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We know better.
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OK, here s one.
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Ready?
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Yep.
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I think salespeople should flex the courage muscle to help them direct the process.
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They need to have the courage to direct the process.
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And so often, the buyers dictate how the process goes.
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They decide when, who, how much, and what s going to happen.
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And it takes a lot of courage to say, here s how we re going to do this.
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Here s what we re going to do.
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I think behind that is the idea of this relationship idea that I don t want to ruffle feathers.
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I want the person to like me.
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And if I resist or command, control, whatever you want to say, the process that they may not like me or they may get upset with me or angry or whatever.
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But I think it takes a ton of courage to control the process.
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And that s a huge, huge dilemma right now for salespeople.
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I just thought of something when you were talking about that need for approval.
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Don t you think a lot of, and I ll say us, get into sales, even though there s a lot of rejection in it, for those approval moments.
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We get in when we say, Brian, I m going to award you this deal.
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You got the deal.
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And it feels so good.
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Our faces wash with pride.
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And yet we get in it because we like the approval.
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And if we start to direct the process and it meets with resistance, that
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that is a problem for us, because now we lose the approval.
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So it could be that what you said there with approval is kind of the foundation of why we won t direct the process.
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Yeah, I would say it is for sure.
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And that s a deal where I think you can have both.
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Because I found it very rare you find someone who doesn t like to either feel accepted.
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There are some people out there that just have none of that, really.
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And sometimes those people are cold.
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Psychopaths.
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Yeah, that too.
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Most people like to be accepted by other human beings in some form or fashion.
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It s a degreed thing, but that s all there.
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And so what I think the trick in this is to know that that s going on, but to not let that get in the way of what you re trying to accomplish to help the other person, that that s not the primary MO that you re driving for, is that acceptance, that it s got a backseat.
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But it s OK to be that way, too.
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I think it makes people real uncomfortable to say, stop feeling, don t like people s approval anymore.
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No.
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It just doesn t work for people.
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That doesn t work.
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But what you re talking about there with directing the process is that you have to believe that your process is good for them to follow or you won t direct it.
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How many times have you had people who fight you on process because they don t yet have the belief that this is valuable for the customer?
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Lots they think they think it s all about us.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, for sure.
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It s good I had a one here and I m going to use an example of Are you watching making a murder?
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I m not no, it s a interesting Netflix series I m not going to get into the details because it would take an hour and a half We re almost out of time
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But the point is that this attorney comes in to handle the case for this person who she believes has been wrongfully accused.
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And she goes, like, headfirst into the data, into the assessment.
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She studies the whole situation.
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And she studied it more than anybody else did, and that s probably why she s going to win.
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And I think that s the case in sales.
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I think we don t have the courage to really assess and study and Ask all those deep dark questions that you and I ask when we start first start working with a company I think we tend to say we ask a couple questions.
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Then we say okay.
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Well, it s time for the solution and I think the the better we can do at studying and assessing the problem helps the customer and
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and also helps us.
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And I think we re afraid to get too deep.
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It s like we re afraid we re going to interrogate, afraid to be curious, afraid we may hear something we don t want to hear.
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And I think assessment, especially if you re in a complex sale, business to business, where the dollars are high, I think anything you can do to assess the pain up front is going to be helpful.
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That s brilliant.
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That s really, really good.
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And people don t do that.
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They re afraid to go deep for lots of reasons.
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I mean, I think they re afraid they think they ll screw it up if they, you know, like they get the little bit that they need that kind of gives them, they ve sort of checked off the list.
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OK, I ve got something I can go sell to now.
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And they think that s all they need to do.
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That s right.
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Because God forbid if they keep going, they find out that maybe there s not something to sell to.
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It could be.
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But that s what we would coach someone to do.
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Or there s more.
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Or there s more to sell to.
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Yeah, exactly.
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My last one here.
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I m going to switch it back maybe a little less deep.
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I think you should have the courage to earn your worth.
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Is that shallower?
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Courage.
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Is that shallower?
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Shallower.
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Can you say that?
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Shallower.
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I think it s shallower.
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OK.
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Courage.
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The courage to earn your worth.
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And this is one of those things where people, sales is a scoreboard business.
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It s a scoreboard measured behavior, and outcome, and role, and all those other things.
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And usually, the carrot is money in some way, shape, or form.
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And I m not saying here that everyone has to have money as their number one driving force at all times.
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I would have you, though, examine your courage, the amount of courage that you have to increase your personal income in sales.
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Because I think a lot of people don t have the courage to tie those two together.
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Because they feel that if they do that, and they do poorly, it goes the opposite direction for them.
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So if I sign up for the idea that I am what I m worth, then if it goes down, it s going to be my problem.
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And so what they do instead is they deflect all that.
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They say, I can t earn more because my company s operations suck.
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Or I can t earn more because marketing won t give me more leads.
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Or I can t earn more because our pricing is too high.
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Those are all external.
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It takes a lot of courage to have that set of circumstances, look in the mirror and say, you know what?
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It doesn t matter what my company s pricing is.
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It s on me.
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That s what I m talking about on that one.
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That s what I m talking about.
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That s what I m talking about.
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SPEAKER_01
Can I drop these mics off of here, Travi?
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SPEAKER_01
Never mind.
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SPEAKER_01
That wasn t really a mic drop moment.
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SPEAKER_00
No, but that s good.
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SPEAKER_00
That s good.
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SPEAKER_00
Because I had my last one was the courage to charge.
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SPEAKER_00
But really, it s kind of a similar thing.
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SPEAKER_00
It s do I have the courage to charge what I think I m worth or to earn what I think I m worth income-wise?
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SPEAKER_00
And that s what it gets back to what Brian and I have talked about.
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SPEAKER_00
We spent a lot of time on the program called All In.
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SPEAKER_00
It s an audio recording.
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SPEAKER_00
Lesson that we ve sold here for the last three or four years.
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SPEAKER_00
We talked about scripting We talked about what are your scripts around money and earning and if you can t get that right then you always get to a hundred grand and you have a chance to make 150 but you end up at 110 and then you go back to 90 and the scripts kind of called the
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SPEAKER_00
So courage to charge, courage to earn.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s all good.
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SPEAKER_00
Love it.
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SPEAKER_00
Courage.
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SPEAKER_00
And can we count Brene Brown as a guest in the Advanced Selling Podcast with this one?
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SPEAKER_00
I guess we can, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
She still is on my bucket list to have her on as a live guest.
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SPEAKER_00
We could, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
We could work on that.
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SPEAKER_01
Maybe we call her and say, Brene, would you like to be on again?
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SPEAKER_01
Would you like to come back for a follow-up visit?
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SPEAKER_00
I don t remember.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
We should do it.
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SPEAKER_00
We ll call our producer and say, hey, we d like to have Brene on the show again.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, what are you talking about?
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SPEAKER_00
On the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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SPEAKER_00
We did the thing on Courage.
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SPEAKER_00
OK.
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SPEAKER_00
I guess we ll have her on.
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SPEAKER_00
We have to have the courage to ask Brene Brown to be on the show.
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SPEAKER_00
How s that?
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SPEAKER_01
That s true.
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SPEAKER_01
So be it.
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SPEAKER_01
Use an honor.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Hey, if you have an event coming up here in the next few months or even next year, first of next year, this is a time of year where people do the retreats and the whole sales meeting rollouts and launches and kickoffs.
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SPEAKER_01
We d love to come out and visit with you, either Brian or I or both.
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SPEAKER_01
So send us an email to listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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SPEAKER_01
Subject line, come see us and we ll get the ball rolling.
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SPEAKER_01
Boom.