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This is the art of charm.
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Learn everything you need to know to crush it in business, love, and life.
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Today we re talking with Dove Gordon.
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We re gonna talk about the important questions you need to be asking yourself about your life and possibly your business if you have one.
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What is my why?
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Am I living it?
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What does success look like?
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Am I enjoying the journey?
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Am I hanging out with the right people?
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And what would happen to my loved ones if I was no longer around?
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This isn t just about asking those questions, but about setting up your life so that you actually have time to examine what s important and making this a part of your life.
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So welcome guys and gals to the Art of Charm.
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I m Jordan Harbinger.
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The Art of Charm brings together the best thought leaders, teachers, and exceptional individuals to teach you how to be a top performer in life, love, and at work.
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Imagine having a mix of experienced mentors teaching you their expertise, packing decades of research, testing, and tough lessons into a curriculum.
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We may not have all the answers, but we definitely have all the questions.
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Stay up to date with AOC and get some weekly videos and great stuff that we can t share on the show by signing up at theartofcharm.com.
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We ll also send you our Fundamentals Toolkit that covers topics like body language and nonverbal communication, persuasion, business networking, public speaking, negotiation, and a whole lot more.
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Of course, the weekly video drills and exercises to help you move forward every single week.
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Of course, I also want to encourage you to join us in our social capital challenge at theartofcharm.com slash challenge or text charmed to 33444.
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This challenge is about improving your social capital, inspiring more people to develop a personal and professional relationship with you.
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It will make you a better networker and connector.
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And of course, invite your friends to theartofcharm.com slash challenge or text charmed to 33444.
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They can join the challenge too.
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Now, enjoy this one with Dove Gordon.
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So, Dov, thanks for coming by and tell us what you do in one sentence.
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I help the really good consultants create a consistent flow of their ideal clients.
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And this seems important because I m not a consultant per se, but I guess from a coaching, training, whatever you want to call it, background consulting, I guess.
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at that level, it s very difficult to find ideal clients.
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Even when it s easy to find clients, which it never is in the beginning, finding ideal clients is tough because we re stuck in this mindset of, well, I don t want to turn down a client because that s money, that s a client, that s business, I can t afford to do that.
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And even people who make millions of dollars per year and have multi-seven, eight-figure businesses will take on, out of, I think probably habit,
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pretty much anybody that wants to sign on if they re not thinking about who their ideal client is.
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Michael Port, my friend Michael Port, calls it the velvet rope.
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And you can really blow it taking on clients that are not worthy of your services or aren t the right type of clients, especially if you re training in groups.
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And we see that a lot at Art of Charm boot camps.
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We re very careful about who we let in because
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in a group of 10 guys, eight guys, if you get a guy in there who doesn t belong there, it can derail the whole thing.
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And if you re coaching individually, it can just make your life miserable if you take on too many of these non-ideal or poor fit clients.
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Stephen Covey said years ago, I remember hearing this in some talk, and it just stuck with me, in order to say no on the outside, you ve gotta have a stronger yes burning on the inside.
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And in order to say no to a client who s not a good fit, you have to have
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a stronger yes burning on the inside.
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And what that means to me and what we do is that why would you take a client who s not a good fit?
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You take a client who s not a good fit because you re afraid that you won t be able to find a client who is a good fit or you won t have enough business otherwise.
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So we take a client who s not a good fit.
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But once you have a simple repeatable process, a marketing and selling system or process that you know works, it s a lot easier than to say no to a client who s not a good fit, which is of course the right thing to do for everybody.
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This is something that is underestimated, I think, when people start businesses, because, especially consulting or coaching businesses, and I know that you work with a lot of people that have been on this show before, or that I know personally, so this is an important topic that I think people make even at higher levels.
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It s not just a rookie mistake, even though it might sound like one, and it also sounds like one of those
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what do they call it in the UK, champagne problems, where you re like, wow, I have so much business, how do I pick the people I want to work with?
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But it s more important to start doing this early, rather than later.
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And I like this idea, I think it s an important point, you do have some resources on it that we ll throw in the show notes, but I would like to sort of,
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shift a little bit into a story that we had talked about pre-show about this last webinar.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So, now I mentioned to you that we have a group of people like me who support, sell to, and support entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants, small business, and so on around the world.
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A hundred plus people, and a number of those I know you know and have had on the show.
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and I call it my JVMM, Joint Venture Marketing Mastermind, very clever title.
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We really get to know each other and support each other in many different ways.
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It goes beyond business.
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One of the people who had been in this group very early on, one of the first handful, his name is Mike Seddon from the UK, and about June, July of 2015, he found out that he was dying, and he had weeks or maybe a couple of months to live.
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Oh wow, how old was he at this point?
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51.
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Oh, wow.
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So there was you know, we have a very active email list and he s a really nice guy It was a really good hearted fellow like really British always always had a good joke Could laugh at himself and we knew that he had some issues.
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He d been in out of the hospital It took them a long time from the beginning of 2015 until middle of the year when they finally helped him figure out What was wrong with him?
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He sent us an email to the group letting us know what the diagnosis was and that, hey, I ve got terminal cancer and turns out that chemo might be able to help, but they discovered that there are blockages that would prevent the chemo from working, so maybe they should do surgery to remove those blockages to allow the chemo.
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Even then, as he said, it sounds like I m between a rock and a hard place.
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And he had a few days where he wasn t sure what to do.
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Now, when a friend of yours suddenly finds out that they have weeks to live, you think, wow, first of all, it just shakes you up.
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But it s also, what can I do to help, right?
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Well, sure.
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At this point, though, did you have a totally different view of mortality?
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I know when Scott Dinsmore passed away, he was my age, and he s a well-known entrepreneur as well, and he was on the show.
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I remember just for days kind of laying in my bed, looking at the ceiling, and being like, wow, he was one of the healthiest people I knew, and this is just such a weird thing.
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It wasn t like, he wasn t doing a Red Bull
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flight thing or some kind of crazy bungee jump.
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I mean, he was just hiking, right, up a mountain that a lot of us would do, and it really shocked me, and I would imagine you felt somewhat the same way because you re a little younger than your friend, but at some point, this just kind of came out of left field.
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He wasn t feeling well, and then suddenly he was dying, and there was nothing that could change it.
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Absolutely.
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Matthew Kimberly actually wrote a post about Mike Seddon and – what s his name you just mentioned?
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I forgot because I didn t know him personally.
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Scott Dinsmore.
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Scott Dinsmore, that s right, because they died within a couple of days of each other and he knew them both.
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And the big difference between them, I guess the only difference is that Mike had a few months warning and Scott had none.
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So it absolutely did shake me up and a couple of things came together because it s like, whoa, you know, we just go through life and we really never know how much time we have.
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We like to think about it.
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And what happened is now I proposed to Mike, I suggested that he put together what we called the last webinar.
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And a big part of that reason was because I figured like, hey, here s this guy who suddenly has his whole life turned upside down or sideways.
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The way he sees everyday things, the way he sees everything, I m sure has just shifted.
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And I wanted to know how he sees things.
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I wanted the benefit of that perspective because, you know, I like to work from other people s experiences, you know, who wants to have to have that experience to be shaken up.
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And that s one of the big reasons why I wanted to do it.
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Why do you think it s important to create something like that right before, I mean, it seems like at this point, time is at such a high premium, it seems like you wouldn t want to waste any time on anything that wasn t extremely crucial for your legacy or for your family and things like that.
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You wouldn t even want to sleep at that point because you just know that there s just so little time.
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Every minute is priceless.
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So why do a webinar?
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Yeah, why do a webinar?
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It seems almost, not to minimize it, but it almost seems trivial at this point.
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Yeah, so it s a very good question, good perspective.
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And that s exactly what I was thinking.
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So people are asking me, hey, Dov, what can we do for Mike?
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And I m thinking, what can we do for Mike?
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We could send him flowers or balloons.
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I mean, it just doesn t seem like that s it.
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And I m thinking to myself, well, if I was in his situation, how would I feel?
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And I realized,
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I realized that I would feel like I have so much left to give, and I suddenly don t have that opportunity.
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You die with all that music still left inside, and I realized, I remember definitely inspired by Randy Posh in the last lecture, and I had this idea, because Mike was an AdWords expert, he was a consultant in AdWords, and he would do webinars and teach people and so on, and I said, Mike, why don t you do the last webinar, and I realized that that could be an opportunity for him to share
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the things he s learned over the course of his life, but particularly with the perspective of somebody who, a thoughtful person like he is, a generous person like he is, particularly somebody who just discovered he s got weeks to live.
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And it turned out to be a tremendous gift to him and from him for all of us, because it gave him this chance, this platform to really give in a big way.
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that would live beyond him.
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And so it s very much the kind of thing that you would want to do when you find out that you ve only got weeks or months to live.
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Yeah, from that perspective, it definitely makes sense.
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And I think from my own life, one of the things that I love most about doing the show is if I, God forbid, get hit by a bus tomorrow, there s a lot of stuff that I was able to put out there.
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I m not waiting till I m retired to write a book or something like that.
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And even if a lot of it is me talking to other people, it s okay.
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There s a record of my existence, right?
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And that s one of the most important things.
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So I can definitely understand from that perspective why it s important.
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What was in this webinar that was so urgently needed and so important?
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It seems like it would be almost impossible to design because at this point, Mike s boiling down lessons from his life that he s taken over half a century and trying to contain them in a few hours at most.
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So what happened was is that there were a few days between Mike getting his clear diagnosis and deciding what to do about it.
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And he and his wife Barbara, they talked to the doctors and they asked questions such as, okay, well, what are the options?
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And the doctors talked about chemo and about surgery.
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And they asked, well, have you done this for others in the same situation?
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Yes, we have.
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And how many of them have experienced longer life or better quality of life?
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And the answer was none.
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So they talked about it and they made a decision that they re going to refuse treatment.
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And his decision was he s going to go home and live out the last weeks or months.
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It turned out, I think, to be just under three months together and make the most of every day, like you were describing.
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You know, he sent us an email that shared his decision.
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And the end of it, he says, now that the decision is made, I m very calm and feel peaceful.
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I also feel blessed by the outpourings of love and support.
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It s humbling.
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For Barbara s sake, I intend to make this the most joyful days of our life together and leave her with the memories to treasure.
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I have no regrets.
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I ve had a life blessed by so many things and so many wonderful people.
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Your messages of support sustain and nurture me in the dark moments.
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Bless you, much love, Mike. 
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Now, one of our colleagues named Nick Jervis responded to that thread at some point, and he was responding to the point about making the most out of every day, and Nick said, you know, hey, Mike, you ve always been an inspiration.
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I m booking a set-in day into the diary going forward, set-in days.
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And that s a day where Nick s like, let s take a day to step back.
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Let s take a step back from the day to day and reflect so that he can be sure that he s making the most out of every day.
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And that really talked to Mike.
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That got him excited.
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I mean, it got him teary-eyed.
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And he started to think about the idea of spreading this idea of people taking a sudden day.
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Again, to him, that suddenly gave a whole new meaning and purpose to whatever life he had left.
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to inspire people to do that.
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And what he opened up the webinar with was talking about how mostly we re entrepreneurs, but it applies to an entrepreneur or an employee or it s all the same.
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We build a business or we go to work to build a life, but so often we forget about the second part, to build a life.
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And the business takes over.
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The idea of a sudden day, as he then framed it, is to step back in order to remember, to reflect, and to make a change, even a tiny one.
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And then you go back to your real life and you live with that.
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We have to, as a society, we don t take enough time to step back.
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remember what we re really trying to do, reflect on how well we re doing it, and then what small change do I need to make?
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I know you have your week-long programs, that s probably a big benefit for people just getting out of their regular routine.
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Yeah, it is, especially when people come in from out of state, they ve taken time off work, they re not sitting there on their phone answering email, they re going through a lot of drills and exercises thinking about what s important to them, getting clarity on moving forward, that s a large part of boot camp.
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I think a lot of people, after boot camp, come back, we see a lot of changes, like, I quit my job, or I started a business, or I broke up with somebody, or I made a big move, you know, proposed to my significant other, or decided to have kids.
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I mean, there s huge decisions get made in the weeks and months following this process, the boot camp process, and I think in large part, it s not just the drills and exercises that we run.
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I d love to take full credit for that, but I can t.
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Part of it is not being in the trap
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of routine, day in and day out, where you don t have time to step back and reflect on everything that you re doing and go, wait, why am I doing this again?
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Kind of like how Mike said, look, I need to actually step back and make these days count for everything, because now I don t have another opportunity.
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even the most sort of positive thinkers among us and the most self-actualized among us, we still know there s going to be more time later on to recalibrate, do different things.
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We don t think about the end coming right now or next month.
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and so we don t put the time at a premium.
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And I m guilty of this, too.
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You know, yeah, I ve gotta do more of this and this and this, and I ve gotta work on my health more, or work on my Chinese more, or whatever sort of goal that I have, but, you know, today, wow, I m really slammed today.
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I can t even think about that today, because I got so many shows, and I ve gotta get my inbox down to zero.
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Stuff like that takes precedence, which is ludicrous when you really put it in perspective.
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And if you ve got that hard stop, to put it crudely, looming on the calendar,
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you would never make the same decisions that you make on a day-to-day basis.
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I wouldn t, anyway.
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Just picturing what you just said was actually helpful for me because I m thinking, like, yeah, right, I m hearing Mike s voice because I was re-listening to the last webinar ahead of this.
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The things he shared in the webinar was what enabled me, he said, to
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come to the end of life or life stopping, I think you use that word as well.
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And I m just picturing looking at my inbox, which is totally out of control, and I m thinking like, wow, you re right, if I knew that, it wouldn t even tug at the edges of my consciousness.
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And it shouldn t for most of my day.
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So what do we take away from the last webinar?
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I mean, are we forced to ask ourselves questions?
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Give us a run through.
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So Mike and I spent hours talking, preparing.
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And now he and I had never met in person, but we ve had a long distance internet friendship.
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So we spent hours on Skype talking because he was on Morphine and I was helping him take his ideas and put them into structure so that there was a structured presentation.
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And he really felt
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He had no regrets, or very few regrets.
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And he came to realize, hearing this idea of seven days that Nick had kind of pulled out of what he had said, yeah, that is why I have so few regrets.
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Because we distilled it down to about five questions that Mike kind of felt looking back, he d been asking those questions from time to time, and that helped him get on the right path and to step out and reflect, to remember, reflect, and then adjust, make small changes.
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Most of the webinar, he shared those questions with his thoughts and commentaries.
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People should go listen to it.
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And those are the five questions that he was telling all of us that, hey, take a set in day or a set in session if you don t want to take a whole day, and go through these questions.
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So we can walk through those questions if you d like.
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Yeah, I would love to.
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Where do we start?
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A lot of times, people are always looking for some new ideas or new information.
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And what I said there is if you want to gain from this last webinar, don t come here looking for something new.
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Look for a new understanding of something that you already know.
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Look for a deeper understanding of something you already know.
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Look for the courage to take a bold step and do something you already know you should be doing.
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The idea is if you can walk away from these questions or that webinar and understand something you already know in a better, deeper, more meaningful way, then your life will change.
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With that note, the first question is, what is my why and am I living it?
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And Mike gave the point that, why am I doing this?
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Well, I say I m doing it for my family, so why is it that I m spending so much of my time at the business and so little time with the family?
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I see, so what is my why and am I living it?
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Okay, that s important.
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And I can see your example, just to clarify that, is if I m spending a ton of time in my business for my family and in the process ignoring my kids, it makes less sense, right?
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Because, oh, I gotta get these kids out of here, I gotta work on the business.
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Well, why are you working on the business?
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Well, so I can provide for my kids.
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the circle fails, right, the cycle fails, or the checksum fails, to put it in nerd terms.
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That s my fear sometimes, is creating a cats in the cradle scenario just all over again, right?
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You re doing it for the kids, and then you get older, you want to spend time with them, and now they re too busy to spend any time with you.
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Good call on cats in the cradle, I forgot all about that, yeah.
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Yeah, I mean, that s a brightening song.
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It is, actually.
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Yeah, it s really upsetting.
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I ve got six kids, so, you know.
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When I think about this question about, you know, what s my why and am I living it?
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So many of us, we re running away from something instead of running towards something, right?
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If you find yourself, you re telling yourself, you know, I have to.
2
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I m doing this because I have to.
2
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In all likelihood, we don t have to, and it s not
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not your situation, it s your way of thinking.
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SPEAKER_01
There s something in, you know, you ve disconnected from what it is, you know, why you re doing certain things, and you re not directing your life.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re being blown sideways through life, as the expression goes.
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SPEAKER_01
You know, I think, who was it who said that the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation?
2
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And I noticed that it s because they re not leading lives of quiet desperation, it s because they re not leading their lives.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re being blown through it, allowing themselves to be blown through it.
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SPEAKER_01
And taking the time to really step back and ask ourselves, well, what s my why and am I living it?
2
SPEAKER_01
And really let the questions just come into our mind.
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Take the time to relax and reflect on that.
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SPEAKER_01
I m so happy that I m able to share this with you because it s forcing me to review all this.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think it s extremely important.
2
SPEAKER_00
First of all, what is my why, and am I living it?
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SPEAKER_00
Stepping back to do that, and not just a quick, in the car, am I living it?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, hold on, where s the 7-Eleven?
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, this is something that requires a lot more thought than just a quick yes or no.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because I think everybody, certainly myself, when I think about this, I often kick myself
2
SPEAKER_00
for maybe canceling something that is important to do work when I could work on it, realistically could work on it later, and I m kind of postponing life to work on AOC as a business, which is something I m obsessed with doing, but at some point I ve got to keep it in perspective because I don t want to lose my relationships with people, canceling invitations and things like that with friends because I have
2
SPEAKER_00
especially non-urgent work that needs to get done, and I m so guilty of this.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m so guilty of doing that, and I think a lot of people are.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know it s kind of a tradition in my family.
2
SPEAKER_00
My dad missed a lot of things when I was growing up so that he could work, and now that he s retired, he s kind of bored, and that s understandable, and I think if he could do it over again, he would probably make some serious changes, and I m trying to learn from that, but man, old habits die hard.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s what Mike said and wants us to remember.
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SPEAKER_01
And that s why he was so moved by the idea of Sudden Days.
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Let s go down the list of questions so that after this, people can set up a Sudden Day and knock it out, knock it out of the park.
2
SPEAKER_01
So question number two is, what does success look like?
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SPEAKER_01
And again, these are surely not questions that no one has, that we have, we know all these questions, but we don t stop to do them.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, we just don t take the time to actually answer them.
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SPEAKER_01
We don t have the courage to really recognize that we could today decide I will not, you know, no I have to do it, no I don t have to do it.
2
SPEAKER_01
So what does success look like?
2
SPEAKER_01
And most people, you know, we re chasing something that we don t even want.
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You know, clients have asked me, okay, how do I know if I should keep, you know, because I say, you know, when you hit the wall, keep hitting it.
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And they say, well, how do you know when you should stop?
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Well, there are two times when you should stop.
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Number one is if you get fundamental understanding that you had a fundamental assumption in what you re doing that turns out to be wrong.
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So like if you were opening up a steak restaurant and it turns out that 90% of the people in that city are vegetarian, okay, stop.
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Don t keep working at the restaurant, right?
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Do something different.
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The other time you should stop is if you realize that what you re chasing after is not what you really want.
2
SPEAKER_01
So what does success look like?
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SPEAKER_01
I think our society is too much obsessed with celebrity, too much obsessed with rubbing shoulders with other people, and pays not nearly enough attention to mastery.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, that I can definitely identify with.
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SPEAKER_00
Tell us the difference then between mastery and, let s say, rubbing shoulders with celebrities.
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SPEAKER_00
Obviously, rubbing shoulders with celebrities may be self-explanatory, but what do you mean by mastery?
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SPEAKER_01
To me, mastery is about realizing that you don t need to know everything.
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SPEAKER_01
to get what you want, you have to become really good at something.
2
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And that s your core skill set that enables you to make your contribution to the world around you.
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SPEAKER_01
But let s say, for example, like in the world that I operate in, where I m helping people get really good at creating a consistent flow of their ideal clients.
2
SPEAKER_01
marketing, there are so many tactics out there with Facebook and Facebook ads.
2
SPEAKER_01
And remember, blogging was big.
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SPEAKER_01
It was just a few years ago.
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SPEAKER_01
You got to be blogging.
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SPEAKER_01
And then there was Twitter and then Facebook.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, there s so many tactics and people are running around in so many different circles trying to do it all, but you don t have to do it all.
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SPEAKER_01
you have to master the fundamentals, you have to understand why a tactic works when it doesn t, and then build a simple repeatable process and get really good at it, get world class at that one process, then you have that yes that we referred to, so you can say no to all distractions.
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You know, it s like, I m sure we re all tempted in every business to expand beyond, to add more products and services.
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I don t know what your temptation has been, but I can be sure that
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People have come to you and said, hey, Jordan, you should also do this or that.
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And for a moment, you re like, hey, yeah, maybe we should.
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But then you realize, wait, I ve got to stay with what was strong.
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And there s so much more we could do here.
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That s the mastery.
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SPEAKER_01
It s not being pulled in so many different directions.
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It s not running after the shiny objects or the glitzy people and believing in the lie that it s easy.
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because it s not easy.
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Everything worthwhile is gonna take work.
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There are no shortcuts.
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SPEAKER_00
It s easier though to try and feel good about what you re doing and one of the ways to do that easily is to be in the same place as other people who you think have made it.
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SPEAKER_00
So it s easier to go to an event and be like, I m on stage with...
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SPEAKER_00
Richard Gere or whatever, rather than actually do something, right?
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SPEAKER_00
It s easier to hustle that invitation so that you have the appearance of it and feel good temporarily.
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SPEAKER_00
I think that s a toxic mindset, too, because what it leads to is an inferiority complex, because then you re rubbing shoulders with people and you re comparing yourself to them, which in my opinion is almost unavoidable.
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SPEAKER_00
The reason that you re unable to measure up is because you haven t been working on the mastery angle.
2
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
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SPEAKER_00
I m not a sports fan.
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SPEAKER_01
Me neither.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, well, so then maybe you can relate.
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SPEAKER_01
But I ve been to some sporting, so I remember being at a baseball game, the Mets game in New York City as a kid.
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The energy that people, sports fans, pour into the success or failure of the people on the field boggles my mind.
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I don t understand it.
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If they would take 1%, 10% of the same energy and enthusiasm direct to these other people and their lives, and instead direct it into their own lives,
2
SPEAKER_01
their lives would be so different.
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It just boggles my mind.
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SPEAKER_01
By the way, I really admire people who are masters of their craft.
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I wanna spend time with those people to learn from them, to find out how they think about the world.
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SPEAKER_01
And that s essentially what your whole podcast is about.
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SPEAKER_01
It s exposing people to that mastery.
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SPEAKER_01
But too many people are just drawn to celebrity, which that s not really what success looks like for most people.
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SPEAKER_01
No, no, and it s easy to get taken in that direction.
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SPEAKER_00
And I ve seen this in myself, especially when I lived in Los Angeles.
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since everybody s kind of doing that, you get obsessed with the appearance of success rather than actual success.
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And that is such a toxic road.
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SPEAKER_00
Mike shared one regret.
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And he said, I wish I d given myself permission to be me far earlier in life.
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And that s an important part here, is like, what does success look like?
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It also, it s not the first thing that pops into your mind.
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This requires reflection.
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SPEAKER_00
Once we get into a habit of chasing after something, that s not really necessarily what we want.
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we don t even realize it.
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SPEAKER_00
So I wish I d given myself permission to be myself far earlier in life.
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SPEAKER_00
Just something to think about.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that hits kind of hard, I think, for a lot of folks.
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SPEAKER_01
So we ve got what is my why and am I living it?
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SPEAKER_01
And we ve got what does success look like?
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SPEAKER_00
What s next?
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SPEAKER_00
Question three is am I enjoying the journey?
3
SPEAKER_00
And to illustrate this point, Mike talked about when he was still in the corporate world, if I just get the next promotion, then I ll be happy, because then I ll have extra money to make the car.
3
SPEAKER_00
But he was miserable working for corporate idiots, as he put it.
3
SPEAKER_00
When he finally gave himself permission to be who he wanted to be, he quit his job and he went off to start his own thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Many of the people that I work with in my business is people who leave the corporation
3
SPEAKER_00
They re really good at what they do, and they think that, oh, I could be a consultant, only to discover that you can succeed in a corporation, and succeeding solo as a consultant are two very different skills.
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SPEAKER_00
But people should make that leap.
3
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If that s what s in it, if that s what s in you, make that leap.
3
SPEAKER_00
So am I enjoying the journey?
3
SPEAKER_00
And reflecting on this,
3
SPEAKER_00
Because I think it s a bit of a paradox here, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
On the one hand, we have to work the process is a term that I ve come across in many places and I talk about it as well.
3
SPEAKER_00
You gotta work the process, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
The obstacle is away.
3
SPEAKER_00
Ryan Holiday has a chapter on that, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
That s a fantastic book.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that book should be taught in high school, in my opinion.
3
SPEAKER_00
work the process and we ve got to do the drudgery.
3
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We ve got to do the things that everybody s got to do some drudgery.
3
SPEAKER_00
James Clear has a great post on this.
3
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If you wait to do the things that you need to do until you feel like doing it, you re never going to get where you want to go.
3
SPEAKER_00
You ve got to work the process.
3
SPEAKER_00
At the same time, are you enjoying the journey?
3
SPEAKER_00
I think that this is a paradox because so many people
3
SPEAKER_00
don t work the process, they don t do the repetitions, because they re waiting until they feel inspired, until they want to do it, and therefore they feel lousy about themselves, because it adds up, so they re not doing what they know they should be doing.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the irony is that when you work the process, when you do the repetitions, you push yourself through the drudgery that is involved in every job, I think, or every business, there is always going to be some of that, sitting down and preparing for this.
3
SPEAKER_00
I resisted that.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I didn t want to sound like an idiot, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
I hope I don t.
3
SPEAKER_00
TBD, but yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
So let the audience decide, although you go decide too.
3
SPEAKER_00
But the key is it s doing the preparation, it s doing the work, and then ironically we get to enjoy the journey.
3
SPEAKER_00
So the third question, am I enjoying the journey, is an important question as well.
3
SPEAKER_00
Am I just kind of settling for this because one day I ll be happy?
3
SPEAKER_00
Even the journey is something that s valuable to me.
3
SPEAKER_01
Alright, back to Dove Gordon.
3
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And I think most of us, or many of us do this.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know my family definitely was like this growing up.
3
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It was just like, my dad worked for Ford in the 90s and the 80s and it was just like stress, stress, stress, stress, stress, getting overworked constantly.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it became really bad news.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I know a lot of entrepreneurs who are
3
SPEAKER_01
they re doing really amazing things, but, oh, but once we get our investment, oh, then it ll kick off, and, oh, man, once we hit iTunes Top 100, then, you know, we ll have this, and, oh, once we hit this benchmark, then it will really kick off, and it s cliche, but it doesn t stop us from falling into that trap.
3
SPEAKER_01
We have to look for reasons to enjoy the journey, because a lot of times, that s our clue that we re on the wrong path.
3
SPEAKER_01
If we really hate where we are now, and we re not just excited about the next thing, but we actually despise where we are now, it might not be the right path at all.
3
SPEAKER_00
Would you agree with that?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, totally.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think this connects with the idea of mastery as well.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not always pleasant to do what you need to do to master your craft, whatever that is, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
But you have to do it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And ultimately, I think that nothing makes us feel better about ourselves than mastering something that we really enjoy.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s work to sit down and write something.
3
SPEAKER_00
The hardest part is pushing yourself to do it, usually.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I m describing my situation, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s work to prepare.
3
SPEAKER_00
People like to just show up and wing it because they think, I ll be good, we ll see.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s rarely as good as those who prepare.
3
SPEAKER_00
Again, with the celebrity culture versus the mastery, we often, we just see the polished results.
3
SPEAKER_00
We don t see, often enough, the work that went into it, the mastery that lies beneath it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then people get frustrated when things don t work for them right away, and they think, oh, it must be me, I m not gonna succeed, I don t have it in me, I can t do it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Or all the self-doubt, you know, am I doing the right thing, will this ever work?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s just false, it s just absolutely wrong.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s so unfortunate, it s a perverted view of reality.
3
SPEAKER_01
All right, so what is my why and am I living it?
3
SPEAKER_01
What does success look like?
3
SPEAKER_01
Am I enjoying the journey?
3
SPEAKER_01
What about question number four, what are we asking ourselves now?
3
SPEAKER_00
Question four is, am I hanging out with the right people?
3
SPEAKER_00
Ah, perfect.
3
SPEAKER_00
There isn t all that much to say.
3
SPEAKER_00
What comes to mind with that is that there s a little bit of Jewish wisdom that says, buy yourself a friend.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Buy yourself a friend.
3
SPEAKER_00
And we all know you can t buy friends, but you know that, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
You can t buy a friend.
3
SPEAKER_00
So what kind of wisdom is that, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So an explanation I once heard is, well, a true friend will tell you what you want to hear.
3
SPEAKER_00
Not what you want to hear, what you need to hear, whether you want to or not.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s a true friend, someone who really cares about you enough to tell you what you need to hear, even if it s not what you want to hear.
3
SPEAKER_00
And if you don t have anybody in your life who is a true friend, then pay somebody to sit and tell you what you need to hear.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s so important to hang out with the right people, the people who aren t going to sit around and gossip with you and talk about how hard the world is and how unfair things are and you poor thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, people are going to kick you in the behind and say, hey, stop whining, get back up and keep moving.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you re on the right path.
3
SPEAKER_00
Stop whining and stop pointing figures and just take responsibility.
3
SPEAKER_00
the right people are the ones who hold you to a higher standard because you look around, and we ve all heard that saying that you re gonna be the average of the five people you spend the most time with.
3
SPEAKER_00
I really think it s true.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s one of the major sort of takeaways from AOC is, we say this all the time, is that you only go as high as your five closest friends, and it s not quite that cut and dry, but
3
SPEAKER_01
we notice when people, especially after boot camp, when guys change who they re hanging out with by making it a conscious process instead of sort of a default process, because as most of us probably have noticed or would notice, my friends growing up were the kids on my street, and then they were the kids on my sports teams when I was in high school, and then in college it was the guys on my floor in my dormitory, and then at work it was the guys that I worked with,
3
SPEAKER_01
And then once I decided to be conscious about this, I didn t care about hanging out with my neighbor just because he lived close.
3
SPEAKER_01
I sought out the people that I wanted to be like or take cues from or take habits from or become a little bit more like, and that was a game changer.
3
SPEAKER_01
because now you re not dealing with other people s sort of negative energy or negativity or bad habits.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can actually filter in people who are going to help you improve.
3
SPEAKER_01
That is completely life-changing, and most people never bother to do that because they don t make the selection of who they re around a conscious process.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let me give a tip, a practical tip on that, because listening to you, and I m thinking to myself, you know, most of my friends are around the world.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve never met most of them.
3
SPEAKER_00
These are the people in my joint venture marketing group, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
But I ve had so many conversations with them, and I ve met some in person.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they open your eyes to what s possible.
3
SPEAKER_00
You can want something, but the typical thought mistake we make is, oh, I want that, but I don t know how to do it.
3
SPEAKER_00
So then we kind of dial down what we actually tell ourselves we want.
3
SPEAKER_00
And when you re talking to people who have just kind of think bigger, and they ve seen things you haven t seen, and they see possibilities you haven t seen, they can just say one word or one sentence to you, and it suddenly opens your eyes to things that, ah, now I get it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m thinking of several of those conversations.
3
SPEAKER_00
Now, the practical recommendation is that it s really important, if anyone wants to really build a network for themselves, to really get to reach incredible people over time,
3
SPEAKER_00
Don t start by trying to reach people who are five, 10, 20 levels above you.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s a big common mistake.
3
SPEAKER_00
Start with people who are where you re at, a little ahead of you, maybe a little behind, but high quality people.
3
SPEAKER_00
are doing things every day, happy to leave their ego at the door, share both what s working, what s not working, and then you all get back together again and keep working.
3
SPEAKER_00
The people that I have access to through my group now are people that five years ago I would have considered unreachable.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the reason is because when I started that six, seven years ago with the handful of people that I d met online different places, they were a little ahead of me, maybe a little behind, high quality people.
3
SPEAKER_00
And over the
4
SPEAKER_00
we ve grown.
4
SPEAKER_00
We ve got people doing multi-million dollar launches in our group, and they ll answer my questions.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s not particularly what I m trying to do, but I learned so much from them and apply it to what I am trying to do.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s really something that I think you re probably describing what you actually did based on reading between the lines, is don t try to reach for the top.
4
SPEAKER_00
find people a little bit ahead of you and grow together.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it might, yeah, it takes a few years, but at least you ll get there.
4
SPEAKER_00
You re never gonna get there the other way.
4
SPEAKER_00
Are there exceptions?
4
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
4
SPEAKER_00
But the exceptions are the exceptions.
4
SPEAKER_00
And unless you have it and you need to be an exception, follow the rules.
4
SPEAKER_01
I love that, yeah, and even if you think you have it and you need to be an exception, you don t really know that until it happens.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s for sure.
4
SPEAKER_01
It just pays to play by the rules in this area, especially in the beginning.
4
SPEAKER_01
So all right, one, what is my why and am I living it?
4
SPEAKER_01
Two, what does success look like?
4
SPEAKER_01
Three, am I enjoying the journey?
4
SPEAKER_01
Four, am I hanging out with the right people?
4
SPEAKER_01
What s the fifth question?
4
SPEAKER_00
And the fifth question is, what would happen to my loved ones if I was no longer around?
4
SPEAKER_00
What would happen to my loved ones if I was no longer around?
4
SPEAKER_00
Mike had shared how he credited his financial planner who 15 years ago had helped him set up certain things so that his wife would be okay.
4
SPEAKER_00
Part of this is he was very successful in life.
4
SPEAKER_00
He was never very rich as far as I know.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know the details of his finances, but he took the time and he had life insurance.
4
SPEAKER_00
People don t have life insurance.
4
SPEAKER_00
Get life insurance.
4
SPEAKER_00
You have people that depend on you.
4
SPEAKER_00
Get life insurance.
4
SPEAKER_00
Dave Ramsey talks about, I forgot what he called it, like a legacy box or something.
4
SPEAKER_00
Make sure that you ve got passwords and different accounts in different places.
4
SPEAKER_00
So make sure that your family knows where they are.
4
SPEAKER_00
Make sure that he had time to do that.
4
SPEAKER_00
He had the time to close things up very neatly.
4
SPEAKER_00
But not everybody has that time.
4
SPEAKER_00
And ask yourself, if I wasn t around in another day or a week,
4
SPEAKER_00
what kind of mess would I be leaving behind?
4
SPEAKER_00
Do I have a will?
4
SPEAKER_00
And just make sure that you take care of that, because you really never know.
4
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t take that much work, but it s important.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, it s interesting, because this sort of happened in the last few years to my parents, where AJ, my business partner, his father passed away several years ago now.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it was sudden.
4
SPEAKER_01
It happened just out of nowhere.
4
SPEAKER_01
And one of the things that was happening was the sort of setup at home wasn t very cut and dry of what needed to happen next.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so my parents spent, I think, a couple of months working a little bit, a few hours every day,
4
SPEAKER_01
setting up papers, organizing things, making copies of important documents, putting them into a safety deposit box, letting their lawyer know where it was in case anything happened, giving me access to stuff that I wasn t listed on because when they made it, I was four or whatever.
4
SPEAKER_01
you know, stuff like that, and redoing the will and making sure it was up to the modern legal standard and very clear and any ambiguity was taken out.
4
SPEAKER_01
And this took a lot of work, but it took them a lot less work than it would take me if I just suddenly found myself trying to figure out which end was up in the middle of a tragedy.
4
SPEAKER_01
And people don t do this until they re inspired by someone else s tragedy.
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So I encourage anybody who s in this position, and just because you don t have kids, just because you re not a family man or woman, yeah, it doesn t mean you shouldn t do this.
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Because right now, you need to set up beneficiaries for your investment accounts.
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Things like this, these little simple things that you can do online in 13 clicks.
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that these things can save your relatives months of heartache and trouble and tens of thousands of dollars sorting out on the other end.
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So I strongly encourage people to tie up loose ends, even if you re 26 and you don t think you have anything, because somebody else is gonna have to sort it out, and you don t want that to happen.
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So those are the five questions and you know, I ve gotten some really nice emails and posts on Facebook because we put up a group for 7 Days, 7days.com if anyone wants to watch his website.
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It s just, it s there.
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I watched the webinar, the last webinar.
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Somebody named Jace Jennings, I think I m pronouncing his name correctly, posted this and it really touched me.
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He wrote, I only got to hear about Mike a few weeks ago.
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I think this was after Mike passed away.
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I only got to hear about Mike a few weeks ago.
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I ve spent the last two months stressed out at home, I work from home, looking after, quote-unquote, my two young kids during a nearly eight-week school break, getting frustrated because I couldn t get any work done.
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My kids wanted attention, I wanted to work.
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I stumbled by accident across your final webinar, and I immediately realized my priorities had become so wrong.
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I had so forgotten why I was running a business and just who it was for.
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I ve taken stock, thanks to you.
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I had a sudden day with my kids a week ago.
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We went to the park.
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We rode bikes.
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We flew remote-controlled toys.
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We played crazy golf.
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We did a lot of little things that my kids absolutely loved, and we had so much fun.
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What a shame, this was on the day before they went back to school.
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Such a wasted opportunity.
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I m refocused, I know why I m doing this and who it s for.
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I thank you for reminding me of it.
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Rest in peace.
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I m getting teary, I m choking up reading that.
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It s like, that s the legacy that he was able to leave behind because of the last webinar.
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And he spent his last couple of months promoting the last webinar and the Shakespeare Hospice, raising money for them, because they re the ones, they really helped people live out their last weeks and months at home in dignity in England.
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So how do you recommend people implement this into their lives?
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I mean, we ve got these great questions, and people are driving to work right now, or on the treadmill, or running outside, and they re like, yeah, yeah, I should do that.
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How do you recommend people take action on this?
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I think we need to block off time and commit to it, whether it s a day or even an hour.
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If we re going to stick to it ourselves, stick to it ourselves.
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If it s going to be hard to do, it ll be easier to have it as a conversation with somebody.
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Take these five questions in a notebook and a pen and leave your internet-connected device somewhere else and just get away for an hour, for a day, a sudden session or a sudden day.
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Commit to do this because it s so worth it.
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I m just thinking about myself.
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I travel a few times a year on business, and when I m getting up and going away, I m gonna be away.
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I know that I m not gonna do as much work.
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I ll be in a seminar for a few days, and other things are just gonna have to wait.
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When I come back, why can t I do that?
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Why do I struggle to block off time for this kind of thing?
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I think we need to reflect and just recognize that, that it s an illusion that we,
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we just get caught up in this illusion.
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We think that s how it has to be, but it s not.
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So I think by having the process that Mike laid out, and then just committing to block off some time for it is a big next step.
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Of course we actually have to do it.
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Is there anything that I haven t asked you that you want to leave us with?
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I think that if this talked to anybody, they should go watch Mike s, the last webinar.
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The website is up.
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suddendays.com, it s on YouTube, totally free.
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Share it with others, because I think this is a message that more people really need to hear.
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Share the podcast, share the YouTube video.
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If we just commit to one sudden day, like Jace Jennings did, and shared with us in a Facebook post,
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it could literally be life changing.
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Dov, thank you so much.
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I really appreciate you coming in and sharing your friend s legacy with us as well.
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I think it s extremely important and underrated.
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Even if a lot of people already quote unquote know this stuff, I think there s something to be said about actually applying it and taking the set in day and asking ourselves these questions.
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If nothing else, at least you and I reviewed these and we both knew it already and we both talk about how we need to do it more.
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We gain.
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Yeah, exactly.
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At least we got something out of it, right?
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That s right.
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For everyone out there, that s sedondays.com.
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S-E-D-D-O-N days dot com.
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And people can find that there.
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Of course, we re gonna link that in the show notes as well, so if you re running or driving, you don t need to worry about that just right now.
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And we ll also have your systematic first rate client that you re worked of will be linked there as well.
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so that you can pull something out of this as well.
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It s good work, it s good work.
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I appreciate it, and so does the AOC family, so really, thank you for coming in.
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Thanks for having me.
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You know, this is an interesting show, Jason, because he comes on as kind of this consultant to consultants, this coach, this expert small business service guy who helps people find their ideal clients, and then we kind of segue into this, what is the meaning of my life and am I actually going in the right direction based on the terminal illness of his friend?
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So I think that took kind of a cool, unexpected turn that ended up being a lot more important than just talking about the business stuff.
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Absolutely, no, this was a great one.
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Yeah, it s cool because he s really flexible with that, and you can tell he s put a lot of thought into this, and it s the same type of thought that we need to be putting into this stuff in our own lives.
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Again, I said this on the show, but this stuff still occurs to me.
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Why am I postponing life for work?
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Why am I working?
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Why am I enduring ridiculous amounts of stress slash taking that stress out on loved ones doing this whole thing because the whole reason I m doing it is for
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them anyway.
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You have to sit back and ask yourself these important questions because I guarantee you there s a million dads and moms out there that are putting their family second so that they can work, so that they can support their family.
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It s a great reminder to find perspective.
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Exactly, yeah, and if we don t set time to do that, it s just not gonna happen.
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If you enjoyed this one, don t forget to thank Dov on Twitter.
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We ll have that linked in the show notes, as well as the other resources mentioned on the show, and of course, his work.
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You can tap the album art in most mobile podcast players to see the show notes right on your phone.
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I m also on Twitter, and I post a lot of stuff, engage with a lot of people there, at theartofcharm on Twitter.
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Bootcamp live program details, bootcamp.theartofcharm.com.
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We ve got a lot of interesting info there on our live training, so if you re interested, get in touch that way.
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Subscribe and review in iTunes,
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iPhone and Android apps available as well.
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And when you write us a review, it not only makes us feel proud, but it helps keep us up in the ranks so that other people who can use this info can find the show more easily and get the credible advice they need.
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And it s a great way to support us, other than, of course, getting products and training from the Art of Charm.
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Special thanks to both the Jasons and to Fogarty for their help in production of the Art of Charm podcast.
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Go ahead and tell your friends because the greatest compliment you can give us is a referral to someone else either in person or shared on the web.
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Now have a great week and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks everybody.
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Thanks for listening to the Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and more at theartofcharmpodcast.com.