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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we plug Weezer s new release The Teal Album, Attention Millennials, I dropped some millennial speak and need to know if it qualifies, and we do an episode inspired by my childhood friends imitating me and ask what role does imitation play in professional selling?
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in the history of podcasts.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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I am Brian Neal.
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And apparently, your children have nailed our intro in your new studio.
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I will get it.
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Are you going to bring?
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I ll bring it in at some point.
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William, my seventh grade son, is probably the closest to doing this for a living in the four.
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And then he s also really close to getting it down.
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So a few more takes.
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So we need to hear that.
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Yeah, a few more takes.
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Well, we d love to come out and visit you as well.
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We say this probably not every episode, but most.
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If you are having either a national sales meeting, a rollout, a retreat of any kind, and want to bring Brian or I or both of us in, send us an email to listener at Advance Selling Podcast in the subject line, put come see us.
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We ve got two or three gigs we re doing.
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One we re talking to a really nice client this fall about, and we ve just come off the road here in the last month to do some things.
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So we would love to help you out.
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I d love to meet you and your gang.
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We just got another one while we re sitting here.
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Did we?
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Isn t that interesting when that happens?
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I always wonder, so we say it, but then someone else did it.
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Yeah, this is for a national sales meeting in June.
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TikTok, a little closer.
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Better get on that one.
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All right.
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So anywho, hey, before we get into our topic today, today s podcast, we remind you, is brought to you by our friends at Pandadoc.
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If you need help creating beautiful sales proposals, and who doesn t, visit pandadoc.com forward slash ASP to download your free copy
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of elements of a winning sales proposal.
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Also brought to you by our friends at Outreach.
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If you want to make your team a revenue driving machine, outreach.io forward slash ASP is the place to go to learn more about them.
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We thank you.
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Thank you, Pandadoc and Outreach for supporting the podcast.
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The Panda Doc read reminded me of a story I heard last week.
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I have a new client, and we were talking about video.
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And the conversation came up where he had gone in to make a presentation, and two or three of the people that were supposed to be there were not there.
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And I said, well, maybe you consider shooting a video.
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And he says, well, you know, he had an excuse, had a reason.
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And somebody else from the background said, I got a story for you.
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My best friend was going to buy a pickup truck.
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He was looking here in his local area.
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And he also telephoned a dealer in Louisville, which is about two hours from where we are, who had a similar kind of truck.
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So they talked on the phone for a minute.
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But the guy said, you know, I kind of wanted just to stay in the United.
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I didn t want to go to Louisville.
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Creates a video a video of he says let me show you some of the trucks.
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We have here s our lot.
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Here s me I really appreciate you calling.
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It was like a little two or three minute video We texted it to him and guess where he bought the truck Louisville Wow because he said
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This guy created a connection with me way more than somebody that even I went and met, because he took the time and the effort to shoot the video.
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So that s an example of, it could have been an email or a text, but instead this dude went to the trouble to do that, and it pays off.
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It s wonderful.
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What a great little lesson.
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Selling cars.
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I m buying a car right now for my daughter.
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She had a wreck, I ll tell you that.
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She had a wreck.
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It was awful.
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totaled her car.
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Thank God she was fine.
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Yeah, exactly.
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A little callback to the previous show.
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It s one of the reasons there s a stoplight now on that street that wasn t there before they started tearing up college.
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She made a little mistake going through there.
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Tough go for a 16-year-old.
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Tough go for the dad of the 16-year-old who has to pay for the insurance.
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But that s OK.
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Love her still.
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And thank God she s OK.
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So today s episode was inspired by a couple of my friends.
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So they say that imitation is the highest form of flattery.
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And the only thing I can do is believe that.
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And I believe that in my heart.
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So I ve got a really good active group of friends who like to imitate other people, stars, famous people, and each other.
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And they ve been having some fun imitating me and us on the podcast.
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And we actually have a couple of clips that Travi is going to play for you to hear my friends, friends in air quotes, imitating us.
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Hello, all you listeners.
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With the Advanced Selling Podcast, this is Mike Kasky with Brian Neal.
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Today, we re going to talk about baseball games and other things that I don t know much about.
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Hey everyone, Brian Neal here.
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Checking with the peeps.
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I am reaching out.
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We re talking indie peeps.
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I m talking peeps from Atlanta.
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I m talking to peeps that live in Boulder and peeps in Raleigh.
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All you peeps.
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Wow.
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Yeah, those are my friends.
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That was impressive.
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You like?
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That was impressive.
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And then you start to say, do I really do that thing?
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Well, yeah, we do the story about nothing, which is funny, we think.
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And then I always laugh.
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Seinfeld made a living about it.
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He did.
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That s OK.
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But I said, how can we take a topic from this?
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So the topic is, what role does imitation play?
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in sales coaching, and sales training, and sales process.
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And all of us, at some point, have been given a script to follow, or role played, or given a process to follow, that for lack of any other better word, we have had to imitate someone that we ve heard, something that we ve seen, something that we ve been taught to do.
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In fact, there are some people, Bill, old school selling, that taught you this psychological idea of mirroring
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So like you re touching your chin, I ll touch my chin and I ll make it.
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And when you lean back, I ll lean back.
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It s fun to do.
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If you ever get a salesperson who s mirroring you, it s fun to play with a little bit.
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Lean real far forward on him, just like gaze at him and see what they do and then sit back and laugh.
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Just seriously, you ll notice this.
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But we want to talk about what role, because there s some benefit to imitation, like there s some benefit into training and coaching and looking at someone that s done something you want to do and saying, I want to do that, but also keeping yourself pure and clean to your own intentions and your own authentic self.
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That s the topic.
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Do you have an opening thought, Bill?
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I never liked the mirroring thing.
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I don t either.
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I always felt like it was a little too contrived.
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Now, I do like the idea is if you re speaking very slowly and I m a fast talker, I need to monitor that.
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Because if I come in and blow you away with, or if you re a real smiley guy and I m not, or vice versa, if you re calling on a CFO or traditional accountant-type, engineer-type person, you have to change.
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Yes.
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But I never liked the, if he does this, you do this.
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If she rubs her eye, you rub her eye.
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The other eye?
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Can t see anything, can you?
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Can t see.
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Can you see me now?
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That s really taking mirroring to the next level.
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You rub their eyes.
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Yeah, let s get into it.
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I think you re right.
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We talked in some of the pre-show workup here that
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Sometimes you will watch a Tony Robbins or a Dean Graziosi or a Michael Hyatt, and you ll hear them say something and say, man, that s a great idea.
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I can do that.
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I m guilty of that.
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I listen to things, and I watch things, and I m getting a little better at not saying, whoa, sure, we could do that.
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We could put that together in an hour.
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What you don t realize is a whole lot more than an hour went into it.
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And so a lot of times, I think, when we imitate someone, we need to be very careful about, well,
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Where did they where did they start and where did they get with this?
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So that we don t think we can do it an hour and it took Tony Robbins Robbins 400 hours to get there Yes, yeah, and a team of people as Bill s marrying me.
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This is a fun game to play I back my chair up to you.
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I need a pencil Travis.
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Give me a pencil number two hard black
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I personally do not like to do proposals.
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That s pandadoc.com slash ASP.
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Yeah, see, that s a thing that I think a lot of people have.
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And I wonder, so I had a conversation with someone who s a listener to the podcast.
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And throughout that conversation, what I realized is they have consumed the podcast
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at a very light intellectual manner.
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And they ve gotten the language down, the imitation of the language that we say when we re talking about topics and things like that, they have not gotten the deep-rooted thought philosophical change down.
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Because it was clear, and they were even telling me things like, oh, I did that.
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I used that close the file thing.
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Man, they called me right back.
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It worked like that.
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or whatever it was.
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So that told me you got to be true to you, too.
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And you got to realize that things that work for others will not, and may not, and should not
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work for you.
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So you may hear something that Bill and I talk about on the podcast.
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It s not the idea of buying into everything we say.
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It s about filtering it and or putting it into your own life and your own framework and your own biz.
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Yeah, I think that when we re doing our consulting and coaching,
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Client will come to us and say, hey, Brian, I ve got this situation.
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I m getting ready to go in tomorrow.
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Can you give me some ideas on how I can position this whatever?
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And then you will say, and you and I, I think, are pretty decent at this, is saying, OK, here s how I would say it.
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And they re like, oh, man, I wish I d have written that down.
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Did we record this?
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Say that again.
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And I always feel like, I can t say it again.
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It never comes out the same way.
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But or they will take notes.
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They ll go in and try to say it and they will maybe even say the words, but they won t feel the feelings Yes, and so like you said it s it s more than just the language I think you ve got to imitate the thinking and this in the strategy behind the thinking and you know We talked about this notion of high intent feel abundance detach from the outcomes.
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There s a whole level of
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Stuff that we ve worked on over the years that makes the language really easy to say yes But it s not easy to say if you re desperate and attached and you need the business really bad.
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The language will be out of sync Yes, no doubt.
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I wrote down feel the feels, you know, we ve been to we were music people We re trying to you know, we tend to you know age up in music.
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I m feel the feels that s kind of a millennial saying right?
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Hey Travis, is that a millennial saying?
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All the feels.
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He s never said it.
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I think the kids would say all the feels.
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Hey, millennials, chime in here in the group.
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Tell me if you feel the feels.
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We ll see what happens.
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I don t know.
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Old man saying feel the feels.
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There s no doubt.
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What people don t see is they don t see that you started in this business 30 years ago.
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I started in this business 25 years ago.
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It took a really long time to get those feelings square in our heart and soul to be able to take any situation, put it into language where people are like, oh my gosh, say that again.
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It s a learned skill over time.
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The 10,000-hour rule from Malcolm Gladwell s book, Outliers, is a great example of that.
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If you read that book, Outliers, it s a great book.
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And he talks about the 10,000-hour rule.
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You want to be really great at anything, you ve got to practice your craft at least 10,000 hours.
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He uses the example of the Beatles used to play for hours and hours at this German bar over and over for hours, 8, 10, 12 hours a day to get good at their craft.
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That s the thing we don t see when we watch football or basketball.
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Gymnastics, some of these precision sports, we don t see the thousands and tens of thousands of hours that went into it.
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We say, oh, man, that was pretty cool.
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I m going to try that this weekend.
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I m going to go imitate that.
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Yeah, Tiger Woods just won the Masters.
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You know what?
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I like the way he went back to his old clubs, I heard, from 20 years ago.
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I think I ll do that.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And then the whole time, you re trying to be.
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This is the other thing about imitation and sales.
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You can t keep trying to be someone else.
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And if you keep doing that, you re never going to get anywhere.
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You ve got to find your own deal, is my opinion.
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And then just be OK with your own deal.
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And you re going to see other people.
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I just saw a quote on Instagram that said, no one s as successful as they look on Instagram.
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No one s as pretty or good looking as they look without the filters.
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It s all a facade on there, to some degree.
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And people see that, though, on Instagram, social media.
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And they go, oh my gosh, they re so buttoned up.
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They have such a great life.
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And you don t see what goes into it.
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You just don t see it.
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So be careful to imitate what you see on the outside.
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So here s a, do you have, I ve got a couple of thoughts and maybe more practical advice or tactical things.
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For sure.
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Yeah, go ahead.
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One thing you might consider doing is just writing down.
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What is your philosophy?
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What is your business philosophy?
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And and I don t just mean hey, I treat people with respect and I m High-integrity and I never steal I never lie
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I m more interested in what is your philosophy about what you do?
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What s behind, if you re in professional selling or professional leadership, give me some of your philosophy points.
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Like, I believe that we all have another gear that we can run, that we can get to without having to work ourselves to death.
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Maybe that s a philosophical piece for you.
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But I think once you have your own philosophy, then you ll be able to take what Brian and I say or what you get from other people
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and insert it into your mix and make it sound like you.
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But if you have no philosophy, if you have no philosophy, then you will just take bits and pieces, and you ll skim it off the top, and it s never going to be you.
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So think about, what do I believe about myself, about my world, about my life, about my customers?
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Yes.
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Love that.
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A little callback, too, to last episode.
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We did talk about that.
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I would also say, tactically,
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You re going to hear sales gurus, sales coaches, your manager maybe appear on your team, who s the number one salesperson, say things.
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And you re going to try to grab sentences, sound bites, things like that.
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Anytime that happens, I want you to say, I like what I heard there.
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How would I say that?
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How would I say that?
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And the process to do this is very prescriptive.
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You first write out how you would say it.
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And you have to write like you write, or write like you speak, not write you write, because you re going to say something.
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So write it like you speak it.
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then bullet that thing, and practice saying that, and then turn the page over and come off the page.
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So you have to take, because you can go watch a Broadway play.
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So if you ve seen the movie Wicked, or seen the play, or the play Chicago, you see certain people play a certain character, and it s a little different, and it s the same.
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And it s because that actor puts their own
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You see Tom Hanks play a role.
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He plays a role a certain way.
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The interesting thing is the lines are the same.
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So he doesn t imitate the people that have gone before him.
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He does his Tom Hanks version of the role.
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And that s what, to me, is the right way to do this in the sales deal, for sure.
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It s like when you hear a band cover a song that somebody else did, and you say, oh, god, that wasn t very good.
1
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And yet, if they would have done it first, you would have said, man, that was good.
1
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Wow.
1
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Yeah, I will give a plug for the youngsters.
1
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Weezer, who s kind of an old band, actually just released an album called the Teal album that is all covers and it is just Oh, really?
1
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Is there a real album?
1
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Yeah.
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Travies not easy likes it.
1
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Weezer s just no, just Weezer.
1
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Here we go.
1
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Age gap alert.
1
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Weezer s not Weezy the Jeffersons, not Weezy.
1
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Weezer.
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Brian, have you ever felt like you can t really connect with people?
1
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Never.
1
SPEAKER_00
But what if I did?
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That s Outreach.io forward slash Advanced Selling Podcast.
1
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OK, last question for me, Bill, to banter.
1
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Script or no script?
1
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Script or no script?
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You mean like first call?
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Do I have a script?
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Absolutely.
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And I ve got clients, especially inside salespeople, are tend to, for lack of a better term, forced to use a script.
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I ve got a client that does a PowerPoint that s from the owner, and the owner will not let them come off of the flow of the PowerPoint.
1
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And there s a lot of stuff if I were asked, I would change.
1
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Script or no script?
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Yeah, I don t like scripts because I don t think many of us are good enough to pull it off to where it sounds like it s unscripted.
1
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So to me the secret, you know, we ve always told the Jay Leno story about you can hear his stand-up and you hear it two nights in a row and it never looks like it s memorized and every beat is memorized.
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And yet it doesn t come across that way.
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And I think the same thing with a script is the instant I feel as a prospect like you re kind of working me, you re working me through your system or your script, I think I start to get resistant.
1
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So if you are really good at taking a script and making it feel like it s just off the cuff, you re winging it, then do it.
1
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But if you re reading it from your mind, no.
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I agree.
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I asked from a customer experience standpoint, would you prefer that I talk to you, or would you prefer that I go off of a script?
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And every human s going to go, I d much rather you talk to me.
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I don t want to hear a script.
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So why would we force someone to do that when we know the
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vast majority of the world would not want that.
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I know the reasons why.
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Well, it s predictable, and all this.
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Then I can measure, and I can train and coach, and da, da, da, da, and all that stuff.
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You can train and coach all the other stuff.
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You can measure all the other stuff.
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I think that s a cop out.
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So I vote no script.
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I m a fan of a guideline or framework.
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Guidelines and frameworks are really important.
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You have to know where you re going and have some intentionality behind what you re doing.
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But it doesn t need to be scripted, in my opinion.
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Yeah, because when you are on script and you say, hey, Mr. Prospect, this is Bill Caskey.
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How are you doing today?
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SPEAKER_00
Well, I had a very close friend die.
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All right, well, good.
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Let me tell you why I m calling today.
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They re not even hearing.
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And I had this conversation with my son-in-law the other night.
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And we started talking about sales process.
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I m not going to get into the gory details of it.
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He works with companies who have these sales processes.
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And he sells them a product that helps them execute it.
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And I said, well, what s the problem with most sales processes?
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And he says, they re not used.
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Sales processes, companies will go out and spend a million dollars on a sales process, and nobody uses it.
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Why don t they use it?
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Yeah.
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Why don t they use it?
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Because it doesn t work.
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They don t like it.
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Doesn t work.
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It s not valuable to them.
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It feels a little inhibiting and inauthentic.
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And I said, well, why have we decided that we all need sales processes?
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Who came along?
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What was the first person to come along and say, thou shalt have a sales process?
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Was it like Dale Carnegie?
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SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
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Xerox?
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I suppose it was Xerox.
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Who was the old process guy in the 60s?
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SPEAKER_01
The manufacturing process guy?
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SPEAKER_01
No, no, no.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, what is his name?
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Oh, my gosh.
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like one of the most famous names ever in production manufacturing, not Ford.
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SPEAKER_01
It was Deming.
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J. Edward Deming.
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SPEAKER_00
Deming, is that right?
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SPEAKER_00
Did he discover UFOs too, or is that a different?
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SPEAKER_00
That was a different guy.
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SPEAKER_00
That was Stuart Wilde.
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Oh, God rest his soul.
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He s dead now.
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SPEAKER_00
Whoops.
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Yeah, Deming was the process guy.
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Everything was measured and metriced.
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And I wonder whether do we really need a sales process.
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And I m open to both ways.
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And I think most listeners would say, oh, absolutely.
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But in a way, I think we ve bought into the smoke around a sales process.
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And I m wondering if the sales process doesn t cause us as much harm as it does us good.
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Yes.
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And we ll talk about that on another episode.
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That sounds like a really good one.
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Of Days of Our Lives.
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I believe.
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SPEAKER_00
Glad you joined us today.
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Once again, if you have an upcoming sales meeting or retreat and want to bring Brian or I or both in, go to, send us an email to listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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SPEAKER_00
Come see us in the subject line.
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SPEAKER_00
We re getting them in as we talk.
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SPEAKER_00
And this is not even live and we re still getting them in as we talk.
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SPEAKER_01
Just checking to see if we got any more while we re on air here.
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SPEAKER_01
Nothing yet, but maybe.
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SPEAKER_00
So anyway, make sure you also go to our LinkedIn page and friend us there.
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SPEAKER_00
Be a part of our tribe, Nearing 11,000.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re going to be putting some good stuff up there.
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SPEAKER_00
So we ll talk soon.
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SPEAKER_00
See ya.