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This is The Art of Charm.
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Learn everything you need to know to crush it in business, love, and life.
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The Art of Charm is where ordinary guys become extraordinary men.
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Welcome to The Art of Charm, I m Jordan Harbinger.
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The Art of Charm brings together the best thought leaders, teachers, and exceptional individuals to teach you how to be a top performer in life, love, and at work.
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Imagine having a mix of experienced mentors teaching you their expertise and packing decades of research, testing, and tough lessons into a curriculum.
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Make sure to stay up to date with the Art of Charm and get some great stuff that we don t or can t share on the show by signing up for the newsletter at theartofcharm.com.
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That s where we ll email you our Fundamentals Toolkit that covers topics like body language, nonverbal communication, dating, attraction, persuasion, networking for business, public speaking, negotiation, and a whole lot more.
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And we ve got our live programs running here in LA.
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Get in touch with us if you re interested.
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Of course, all info on that at theartofcharm.com.
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Looking forward to meeting you here at AOC.
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We had so many requests from people and fan mail questions and requests for advice, asking people how to find a therapist and if I had any suggestions.
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I don t really, very few in fact, and so I decided to seek out an expert opinion on this.
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So here I m bringing in Kim Seltzer, who is a licensed therapist and also a resident therapist and stylist here at the Art of Charm.
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So she s gonna give us plenty of advice and tips and techniques to use to find a therapist that is a good fit for us, whether you think you need one or not.
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So enjoy this bonus episode with Kim Seltzer.
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Kim, thanks for taking the time.
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I m really glad to have you here because I don t really know how to find a therapist and I don t know a lot about it.
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Well, I m here to help.
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Great.
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I m excited that you asked me to do this.
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So where do we even begin?
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Because I think, first of all, there s a stigma attached to therapy that I think is undeserved.
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I think anybody who has any ish going on in their life, which is pretty much anyone doing anything or not doing anything, should see a therapist regularly just to keep yourself in check.
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I got one for a couple sessions as a teenager just to make sure I wasn t...
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crazy and my parents did it and I did it as an adult when I went through particularly stressful times.
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I don t think there s any shame in getting one and I think it s super healthy and I think it s kind of like, it s kind of like getting a math tutor when you suck at math or when you think you need help.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, it does get a bad rap.
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And you know, even using the word shrink, or you know, that kind of thing.
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I think it also depends on your upbringing, and how like it was looked at in your community and your family, you know, because there s some people and family systems and cities where it s like here in LA, I ll just be honest, if you don t have a therapist, it s almost weird.
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So there s like different cultural expectations around it as well.
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But you know, finding a therapist is like finding a hairdresser, a doctor, a dentist, it s like any other kind of professional, you, you really need to be comfortable with who you choose, because it is a personal decision.
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And you do feel like you have to relate to them, you know, in the way that you re communicating kind of these deep things.
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Yeah, because you have to be comfortable talking to that person just like you would a close friend because you got to tell them all kinds of stuff.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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So where do we even begin with this stuff?
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I mean, how do we know what kind of therapist we need and where we should look?
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Yeah, you know, I was thinking about it.
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And when I help people find a therapist, or even when they re working with me, I kind of use this five step process.
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And it goes like this.
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The first step is really looking at your personal goals.
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And I always invite people to make a list of goals that they want to accomplish.
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You know, really ask yourself, what is it that you want in your life?
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You know, how do you want it to look?
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What are some challenges that you re having?
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And if things were to change, how would your life look if you achieved those goals?
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So I think you gotta get clear on what it is you need help with.
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So that s step number one.
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How do we kinda do that?
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Do we just, you make a list of the goals that you wanna accomplish and how do I need to be to get there?
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I mean, I don t know.
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Can we step by step it?
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Yeah.
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So, I mean, just even taking out a piece of paper and thinking about, first of all, things that are difficult for you.
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You know, like I have a hard time in social situations.
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I tend to be pretty shy.
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I have a hard time initiating.
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I get down on myself a lot.
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I have a hard time with confidence. 
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You know, anything that you think that you re challenged in.
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And then, you know, maybe in the second column, you put, okay, well, what are my goals around that?
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So in social situations, like, I d love to be able to walk in a room and feel comfortable and actually engage and initiate in conversation.
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I love to feel happy 80% of my day rather than only 20%.
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So that s what I m saying, the more specific you can get and the more measurable, it ll be easier to kind of really take a look at what it is you need.
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Yeah, this makes sense, because otherwise, it s kind of like going to the dentist and going, I want good teeth.
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And he says, well, you want whiter teeth, you want healthier teeth.
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You have a toothache and you go, I don t know, I just want good teeth.
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It seems weird to do.
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You never would do that.
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You always go in with a specific issue.
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You don t normally go to any professional or a hairdresser and go, I need a haircut, whatever.
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You ve got something in mind.
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Exactly.
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Well, and with that being said, I will say that a lot of times people just have a hard time articulating.
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Like if you re depressed or you re anxious, it s even hard to articulate or be specific what that means.
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So by doing this exercise, it kind of gets the storm out of your head that s swirling around and helping you get more specific so that when you call these professionals, you re able to articulate it.
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And if you re not, at least you have some guidance and let them help you.
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I mean, that s part of what they do.
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Right, like a stylist.
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I want something that s shorter and low maintenance for summer.
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Got it, let s try this.
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Exactly.
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Well, you re speaking my language now.
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Right, that s true.
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Because both are.
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Okay, so step number two.
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You really need to look at the value of what therapy is for you, both on a personal level and a financial level.
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So, I invite everybody to check in with yourself about how you value yourself
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and what you are willing to invest to feel better.
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Look, I ll just face it, a lot of people don t value therapy.
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It s not tangible.
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It s not something you can see or feel or touch like a TV or a stereo.
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So actually taking a look at, you know what, if I put this money and investment in myself, my life is going to change and I m going to feel better.
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At what cost will you do that?
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And then finally, like how much financially are you willing to invest?
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You know, I always tell people the first thing is to check with your insurance, see what your benefits are, and the amount of sessions and what type of therapists they will cover.
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It s a great place to start, you know, because there s a lot of people who don t get covered.
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But there are a lot of therapists who are covered and mental health is covered on most people s benefits.
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They don t know that.
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You know, back when I had crap insurance, I wasn t covered and I thought, that s so weird because it seems like a really obvious way to prevent people from doing bad things to themselves or from having further problems down the road that require.
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A lot of my friends and people I know who go to therapy, they always say they went way too late.
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and people who write in say the same thing, and it s especially true if they end up taking antidepressants or something like that.
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A lot of them say, look, this stuff is super helpful, but I ll tell you, had I been in therapy for a few years, I might have been able to skirt by without doing this.
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It s so true.
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I just talked to somebody who was 24 and she thought it was too late.
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I m like, honey, you re doing so good.
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The fact that you re reaching out now because the call that I had before was 80 years old and she had where she had done it when she was 24.
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So that s right.
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The sooner the better and it s just going to help your life overall.
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Absolutely.
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Even if you go just to make sure you don t need it.
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Exactly.
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Um, it s worth it.
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It s worth the value.
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If you can spare a little bit of change and a lot of therapists work on sliding scales too.
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I know when I was younger, I talked to a therapist with a friend of mine and, uh, I thought, oh, this is really good.
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I m going to go there too.
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And I asked my friend how much it was, and she was like, oh, it s like 60 bucks an hour.
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And I said, great, I can totally do that.
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And I walked in, and she said, what do you do, and all this stuff.
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And I said, great, this is like 60 an hour.
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And she goes, well, you re an attorney.
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This is more for you.
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The reason it s cheaper for some people is because it s sliding scale.
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She s a waitress, she can t afford it.
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And it sucks, but it s also totally fair.
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It is.
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No, that s a really good point.
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I m glad you mentioned that because and that kind of bleeds into the third step and that is understanding and researching the different types of therapists and centers that are out there because there are community centers like mental health centers that are a lot cheaper and a sliding scale.
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People who go to college, there s definitely like help for college
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students that are much more affordable than, you know, when you re out of college.
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So, you know, really do the research.
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And, you know, after you check your insurance, then that s really the next step.
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And what gets confusing is there s a lot of degrees out there and in each state, it varies.
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So it s hard to kind of speak to the masses because, you know, when I lived in Chicago in LCSW, which is the degree that I have, we were kind of the clinicians, we were the therapists.
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I moved here to California and it was different.
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Even though we could practice, it was just different.
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So there s MFTs, there s LCSWs, there s PsyDs, there s MDs, there s counselors, there s life coaches.
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It goes on and on and on.
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There s a lot of choices now.
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That was my question.
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Are there different kinds of therapists?
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Apparently there are now.
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Yeah, there definitely are.
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And each of those degrees that I talked about have kind of a different way that they work.
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Like, you know, LCSWs like myself, like the social workers, MFTs, we re kind of trained to work with people more holistically, looking at systems,
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like family systems, your social background, socioeconomic status.
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In my mind, I feel like it s more integrative type of therapy and looking at the whole picture rather than just one thing.
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Whereas like PsyDs and PhDs and MDs look at more organic stuff and like
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If somebody s predisposed to depression or anxiety, they ll look at more like the cognitive behavioral aspects of it and also the medical aspect of it.
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And sometimes you can have more than one.
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So you could have a psychiatrist who s an MD who will prescribe you psychotropic medication for, say, depression or anxiety, but they won t do therapy.
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So then they ll recommend, you know, a therapist to do the actual therapy to help you with that.
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Interesting little team approach.
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Exactly.
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It takes a village like with everything, right?
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So yeah, with that, there s also different theoretical orientations.
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I don t know if that s totally something you have to really know, but just know that there are different kinds of
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backgrounds that people get trained in.
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So, like back in the day of Woody Allen, right, where he would be on the couch and tell like his life story for 10 years in therapy, like that s more psychoanalytic and kind of old school in my mind.
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I think most people today are more integrative and they work with different kind of modalities.
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Now, back to Kim Seltzer.
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now things are starting to sort of coagulate, which is we re seeing that sort of across the medical profession from what I understand.
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And I won t get into all the differences between MFT, LCSW, PsyD, MD, counselor, coach, and theoretical orientations like cognitive, behavioral, psychoanalytic, integrative family systems.
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I think people can look that stuff up and we ll in fact list this whole sort of
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cheat sheet in the show notes so that people can find it there.
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We might even create a piece of content around this, because I think most of America slash the world probably could use a good session or two.
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So making it easier will be really helpful.
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And what sort of modality should we be looking for?
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Can we match those to ourselves?
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Because I ve heard of things like art therapy, and I m like, I would be terrible at that.
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I don t even know.
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That would be the worst thing.
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Talk therapy, though?
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I mean, she should pay me to go to that, because I do all the talking, right?
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So he or she, for that matter.
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But there s a lot of stuff I feel like would be really interesting, and I think it probably depends on your personality.
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It totally does, and I would never in a million years recommend art therapy for you, Jordan.
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Knowing you.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, talking therapy.
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But with that, sometimes it is good to know there s art therapy, there s drama therapy, there s music therapy, and that s more the creative therapies, but also within the traditional talking therapies,
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people who use like cognitive exercises.
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Sometimes they ll recommend family therapy to do more systems approach based on some of the issues that you re grappling with.
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I think it s just good to know their background and if you know they re kind of speaking to you and the language because you know, let s face it, if somebody s really cognitive,
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and they use all that lingo and verbiage.
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And somebody who is artistic and more visual, it s almost like you re speaking two different languages and you may not feel like that therapist gets you.
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Right, which is a problem because it s probably largely about the rapport between you and the therapist, or at least the comfort level.
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Oh my gosh, totally.
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And that actually, that is one of my steps and I ll talk about that in a bit, but it is, it s huge.
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Like I said, it s like the hairdresser, the doctor, the dentist, you really want to feel comfortable.
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Excellent.
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So step number four, level of commitment.
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How committed are you?
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You know, I mean, how much time are you really willing to put into it?
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And you have to look at your own patterns.
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What is your tendency for follow through and taking responsibility?
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Because here s the thing, like you could say, I m going to go to therapy, and you kind of announce it to the world.
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And then you go to one or two sessions, and you re like, it didn t work, this sucks.
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And that, you know, you have this thing in your mind that therapy sucks.
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But really, if you look at the pattern of your own behavior, well, how often in your life do you do this, where you don t follow through, and then you blame outside of yourself, that s probably the reason you do need to be in therapy, right?
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So the commitment level is huge.
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Like when I would have
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clients come to me and they would say, you know, I want to change X, Y, and Z. And when I would challenge them on that in terms of what they need to do to get there, seeing people s reactions would tell me a lot.
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And especially if there was follow through, like if I gave them a homework assignment or something that they needed to do to actually change and they didn t do it, well, you re only as good as, you know, kind of your own follow through.
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Right.
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Otherwise it s just another project that you start and don t finish.
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Exactly.
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Unfortunately, if you re going to therapy for starting projects and not finishing them, you re in trouble.
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Yeah, if you re going for procrastination but you think you ll do this later, you ve got issues.
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If you have a hard time making a decision and then you never make the decision which therapist to choose, exactly.
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The final step, and we kind of talked about this earlier, is really being comfortable with who you choose.
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So I recommend interview a couple of them.
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After you do the research and you kind of check in with yourself on what you re wanting to do,
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hop on the phone and or actually have a free session.
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A lot of them will offer a free session, free consults, maybe not for the full time, but maybe for 15 minutes or something like that.
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Just get their body language, get their vibe.
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Do you feel comfortable?
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Are they communicating your language?
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Are they talking to you in a way that you understand, you feel comfortable with?
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More importantly, do you feel like they get you and understand you?
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And that s huge.
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You know, there s a lot of times maybe you like somebody, but then the things that they re saying, they re totally off.
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They re not getting you.
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And that s okay.
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Like not everybody is a match.
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So don t give up.
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up, in other words, like if there s one therapist and it doesn t work, don t generalize and say, oh, therapists suck or I hate therapy.
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Really like give it a chance and talk to many people as you can.
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That s, that s kind of like dating.
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Uh, yeah.
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Right.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Except for, uh, yeah, it s more expensive.
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Right.
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Well, I don t know.
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Sometimes dating can be more expensive, but that s a whole other podcast.
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That s true.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Completely different episode of this same show.
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Exactly.
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And now for something completely different.
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Exactly.
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Well, thank you so much.
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Is there anything else that I haven t asked you that you want to make sure everybody knows?
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No, I would just say, you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results, right?
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So if nothing is working, nothing is happening, and you really want things different, this is a great way to get started.
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And even if it s just looking at these five steps,
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and understanding the idea of it, that maybe is your first step.
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It s just really looking at it.
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And then, you know, when you re ready to take action, then yeah, I m here for you.
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Well, great, thank you so, so much for this, super useful.
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We ll have contact info for you if people wanna reach out and ask a question they maybe don t feel comfortable asking me about this stuff.
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In the show notes, although people write me all kinds of stuff, so I d be surprised about that, but it s gonna be there, and we ll do a little cheat sheet with some of the criteria that you mentioned here on the show.
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Awesome, thanks for having me.
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Thank you.
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I hope everybody got some value out of that.
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I know a lot of people have been asking me about this, and I m glad we could address this need, and it s not just me talking out my you-know-what.
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Show feedback and guest suggestions.
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The show s a fanarchy.
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It s run by you.
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I rely on you to help give us show ideas, experts, and suggestions, so if you know someone who s a fit for the show, let us know.
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Guests at theartofcharm.com, and if you enjoyed this, don t forget to thank Kim on Twitter.
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We ll have that linked in the show notes, as well as the cheat sheet for how to find a therapist that we used to create the show itself.
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and you can tap the album art in most mobile podcast players to see the show notes right on your phone or other device.
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I also post tons of stuff on Twitter that never makes it to the show, articles, insights, funny stuff.
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I m at theartofcharm on Twitter.
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Bootcamp details at theartofcharm.com.
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Remember, subscribe on iTunes, show us some love.
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When you write a review, it not only helps make us feel proud, but it helps keep us in the ranks so that other people who can use this information can find the show more easily and get the credible advice that they need.
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It s also the best way to support the show, other than purchasing products and training from us.
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Special thanks to the Jasons for their help in production of The Art of Charm.
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Tell your friends, because the greatest compliment you can give us is a referral to someone else, either in person or shared on the web.
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Now have a great week, and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to the Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and everything for the extraordinary man at theartofcharmpodcast.com.