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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, I call back a famous radio character from Wayne s World, Handsome Dan, Bill and I share our fondness for our newest guru, Sound Guru, and we play a new drinking game without drinking called, Should I?
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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I m Brian Neal.
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And we are pleased to be with you today.
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We are on video.
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We have no idea where this video is going to show up, but also, of course, on audio.
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So welcome back.
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If you are a newcomer to the Advanced Selling Podcast, I know we have a lot of new listeners,
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Go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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There s a lot of info there.
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I think we even take you back through the top 10 most popular episodes, which I have my family review on a weekly basis to make sure we re not missing something.
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But if you re a brand new listener, that s a pretty good place to begin there.
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Yes, we also have a program called the Advanced Learning Podcast Insider.
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And it s a wonderful group that meets once a month around fellow podcast listeners.
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And you get live, like it s live, it s not taped or recorded, live coaching with Bill and with me.
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We break into breakout groups who work on real problems.
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There are groups that connect outside of that.
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So if you re not a member of the Insider, you need to go check that out.
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It s advancedlearningpodcast.com slash insider.
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So I was listening to a podcast on the way over here today.
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Do you listen to a lot of podcasts?
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Not a big, voracious consumer of podcasts.
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I can tell.
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It s obvious it shows.
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So there s three things that hosts do that really drive me nuts.
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Can I tell you what they are, and then you tell me if this would drive you nuts?
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I m guessing I do two of them, but go ahead.
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You probably do.
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We probably do.
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One is where the, I think I ve said this before, where the host fawns over the guest.
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Oh.
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Oh my gosh, Brian.
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Too gushy.
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It is so good.
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I have been following you.
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I saw it.
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I ve been creeping.
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Actually, sometimes I just go hang out at your creeping sidewalk.
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Yeah, I don t like fawning.
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Too gushy?
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Yeah, too gushy.
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OK.
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The other, the opposite of that is where the guest says something that s like a gem, like an unearthed gem that s sitting right there.
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Well, that s a good question, Mr. Host.
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As an aside, I was in prison with my parents when I was nine years old.
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And the host never comes back and says, whoa, whoa, whoa.
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Tell me about it.
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You were in prison with your parents?
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They blow right by it.
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I think what happens is the host just gets so on track to ask the next question, they really don t listen.
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They really don t listen.
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That reminds me of Handsome Dan from Wayne s World.
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Thank you, Travis.
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Handsome Dan, a wonderful character.
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Yeah, for those of you listening that have seen Wayne s World, you know Handsome Dan character.
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He s basically interviewing Wayne and Garth.
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It s this famous DJ.
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And he s not paying a lick of attention to them.
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And he s going, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
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And then Wayne realizes he s not paying attention to him.
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So he starts to play with them.
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You re not listening to a word I m saying.
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Uh-huh, uh-huh.
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It reminds me of that.
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That s true.
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Don t be the handsome Dan of podcasts.
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How about that?
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And then the third thing that I heard this one guy do, and I like this guy s podcast.
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I m not going to say who it is, because he s pretty popular.
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He just did it with Spotify.
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No, no, no.
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Not him.
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No, he would never do this.
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But if I were to ask you a question like, Brian, tell me what time it is right now.
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Just skip the time.
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And I ll give it to 925.
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Thank you for that.
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Thank you for that.
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Thank you for all of these things, the way you looked at your watch, the way you.
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It s like, you have to thank somebody for every answer.
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You have to thank Steve Jobs.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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So if you re posting a podcast, please don t thank the guests for every answer.
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It s annoying.
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Okay.
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We don t really do that.
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We don t have as many guests.
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So like a little, we don t do that.
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So we don t.
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Uh, okay.
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So today s, uh, we re letting me do that.
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That was wonderful by the way.
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Okay.
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Hello.
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Don t be the handsome Dan podcast.
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Oh, that was sugar.
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So of course you love it.
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Uh-huh.
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Uh-huh.
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Uh-huh.
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I just, I just snorted.
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I just love handsome Dan.
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Good character.
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All right, here we go.
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We re doing questions, and we re doing, these are binary answers, and then we re going to reveal them, right?
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So we ve got four questions we re going to ask.
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These are binary answers, meaning they re yes or no questions.
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They re should I s.
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Should I blank or blank?
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Bill and I, for those of you listening, we have these little cards we re going to hold up for the video, and then we ll say what our answer is.
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But we re going to reveal them as we go, so we don t know what each other s answer are.
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And then we re going to talk about it, and we might have the same answer.
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We might have a different answer.
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Who knows?
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We ll see where it goes.
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The whole reason we have this entire setup here is for these, so that the person can, for seven seconds, see this.
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We had these cards produced.
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Those of you who are just listeners, we just produced these cards, actually.
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We spent about 15 minutes and then landed on taking a white 8 1⁄2 by 11 sheet of paper and drawing a Y or an N with a marker on it.
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We need to put our logo on here.
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We will get our logos on there.
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OK, so we have four sales questions.
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We re going to reveal our answers, and then we re going to talk about our answers.
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First question actually comes from a listener.
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And was that in the LinkedIn group?
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It was.
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Sam?
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Sam came from this?
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I think.
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I don t recall his last name.
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Yeah, Sam, I think, asked this question.
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OK, so you re in your prospecting mode, and the question is,
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Should I send a calendar invite cold?
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Should I send a cold calendar invite?
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Am I prospecting?
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So I don t have anything, no juice, no conversation, and I m trying to get an appointment with Bill Kasky.
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Should I just send over a calendar invite for Tuesday, March 7th at 3 p.m.?
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Yes or no, should I do that?
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Ready?
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What d you say?
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What did Bill say?
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Brian said no.
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I said no.
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Don t do that.
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Why did you say no, Bill?
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Because I saw what you had written.
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Yeah, right.
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I know better.
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It seems a little presumptive to me.
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Now, I guess if you d had a conversation even three months ago, and nothing had happened, and you re trying to kind of get closure, and does this person want to talk or not?
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Maybe.
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I think there are some circumstances.
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But if it s totally cold, I don t even know what you do,
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Unless you are such a known celebrity in your niche niche that The people just know you and they can t wait to get on the phone with you then I think you d be okay But then why would you be sending the email anyway for that popular?
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Yeah
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Yeah, people have asked this, and I ve got to come clean.
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There are times when we re in kind of a brainstorming, prospecting session, and this question comes up, and they ve done everything.
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And I m like, you know what?
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If you want to, go ahead.
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You ve got nothing to lose.
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Do I recommend that, though?
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No.
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It s not a good strategy.
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It can put people off.
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Might you get an appointment?
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Maybe.
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I just think there are a lot of better things to do than this, if that makes sense.
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Yeah.
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Now if we want to have somebody on the podcast and it s an invitation to be where we re bringing value, then I think that s different.
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If you re interested in being on, kindly just click the link and you can get on our calendar.
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But a sales process, I agree.
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We agree on that one.
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I agree.
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All right, next.
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OK, number two is should I use LinkedIn
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to coldly ask for a meeting.
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So I m on LinkedIn, and when I say cold, the question here is, I could be first-level connected with him, but I don t know them at all.
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Because that happens a lot these days.
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We re first-level connected.
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So if I m first-level connected to Bill Kasky, but I don t know him, I ve never talked to him, should I use LinkedIn to ask him for an appointment?
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Yes or no?
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Oh, boy, that s a good one.
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I m ready when you are.
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I think some people are going to be surprised by my answer.
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You said yes and no, OK.
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I am surprised by that.
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Yeah.
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I have some, I have a, you want to say my reasoning?
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Yeah, go ahead.
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This is good.
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We ll judge that.
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Exactly.
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Here s what I m thinking.
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And it kind of has the same back half of the answer beforehand, which is I d much rather find a warm introduction, even if I m first-level connected to somebody, but it s cold.
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If I m first-level connected, there s a high probability that I ve got some second-level connections there.
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And I d always have you try to reach out to one of those shared connections, mutual,
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connections and ask for a warm intro to the person versus going direct cold to them first.
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I think that should be a last resort.
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The other reason I put that down there is because now I know our advanced podcast listeners would never do this.
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And I m sure you get these all the time.
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You get that first level connection except in an immediate sales email.
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You re on a 10 sequence.
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Yes, exactly.
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You re on a sequence.
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And it just can be, I m sure it works for some people, but it just can be potentially off-putting.
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That s why I said no.
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I d rather you explore the mutual connections, shared connections, and try to get warm introduced.
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You said yes.
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OK, I said yes.
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And do we have an asterisk?
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Can you give me a, can you like highlight an asterisk?
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We have to draw.
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We need another piece of paper.
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Let s talk this.
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We didn t know any before.
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Let me get with production.
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Let me get with production.
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Hang on.
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So my yes with an asterisk is, I think reaching out cold is fine.
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I don t think I would do it directly
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to get an appointment or a phone call.
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So here s what I would do.
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So that s why the asterisk.
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I would create, and Travis and I did this here a couple weeks ago, I would create an event on LinkedIn.
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And maybe the event is a small Zoom meeting, or it could be a webinar style, or something that s educational.
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Reach out to these cold people, invite them to this event,
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We invited, I think, 300 people.
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And we had 30 people register, probably 20 show up.
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But those are the numbers.
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That s great.
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10% of 300 people.
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I take that all day long.
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All day.
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I take that.
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So you might think about creating some kind of an event.
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And it doesn t literally took us how long?
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10 minutes to create an event and link down with some banner graphics?
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But the point there is now you can reach out cold and invite them to something that might just be a value to them.
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And I think then, on the back end of that, then you can say, hope you enjoyed the event, or sorry you weren t able to make it.
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Is it OK if we set up a phone call?
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That s great.
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That s great.
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And very different than asking for a direct appointment, too.
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And it s leveraged.
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It s one to many.
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It is leveraged.
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It s really, really good.
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Really good.
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I think we should devote a whole episode to the whole LinkedIn event thing.
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I m starting to see people use it.
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Yeah, it s pretty active.
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And at some point, it s going to become so crowded, everybody s going to be using them.
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But for the next three or four months, I think it s got some likes.
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It s there.
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OK, next question.
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They just keep coming.
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Should I talk price on the first call?
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Should I talk price on the first call?
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Yes or no?
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Big reveal.
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Should I talk price on the first call?
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I m not looking.
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I already made my choice.
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In 3, 2, and ready?
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Reveal.
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Oh, this is fun.
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I love this.
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OK, this is good.
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I said no.
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He said yes.
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All right, you go first.
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Why shouldn t you talk price on the first call?
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Well, of course, again, it depends on if it s a deal where you really don t know how to price something until you do your assessment, until you find out what they re trying to accomplish.
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We re speaking to a broad range of sales people here in different functions, different industries.
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Some are two-call closes.
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Some are five-year selling cycles.
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So I do think it depends.
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You know, I here s my rule.
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I want to talk.
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I want to be the one that brings up price Yep, I want to be the one that frames the economic discussion, but whether it s the first call or not, I don t know I mean if you re selling one of your programs or I m selling one of mine, of course In fact, I would even suggest you put it up on the website.
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So the price doesn t become even something you need to talk about it s like yeah
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You know the price.
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But when it s something like accounting services or that kind of thing where you really don t know, I would say no.
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I d wait.
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Yeah, that s good.
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And I kind of hybrid changed my answer here in the last few weeks.
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So the first thing is, I used to say absolutely not.
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And it was a hard no.
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changed my tune on that, mostly because I feel like it would get, it feels very evasive and odd to the, it s on everyone s mind always if you re buying anything.
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And so I just want to set, I want to put something out there.
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I love the idea.
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I always teach the same thing.
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Let s, we, we be the one to bring it up.
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And at least, you know, like if someone wanted to do coaching with you,
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And it s a minimum of $10,000 to even talk about it.
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And they were thinking it was $50,000.
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You really don t need to talk anymore.
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So that would be a reason to do that.
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The other thing is, and we ll have to get these, so our friends at Gong just released some statistics about this.
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And I ve got to look them up to fact check them.
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But the facts are that the calls where price is brought up on the first call
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closed one versus closed lost at five times or four times or something, which I thought was a realist.
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So their recommendation is to bring it up on the first call.
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Their data says that when you do that, more deals close.
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And I ve got to fact check the data there to see.
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But that was interesting to me.
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Yeah, my only issue with that is there s a lot of different things that enter into whether a deal closes or not.
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That would be one.
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There s a lot of things.
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So I would be, I don t know if that s causation or coincidence or what.
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Yes, it s one data point.
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Yeah, correct.
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But that s good.
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I mean, I think if it s set up so that you really need to talk about it or want to qualify somebody, do you have a $10,000 budget or $100,000 budget?
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I think you ve got to bring it up, Doug.
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Generally, yeah, I think we just disagree respectfully disagree.
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That s right.
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There s no right or wrong.
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It s just what is this?
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When I got to talk to production Travi your production Travi made these nice signs, by the way.
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All right last question here Should I go over the buyers head?
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if and when I know that there s another person in the decision process that I m not talking with?
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Should I go over the buyer s head if I know there s another person in the decision process that I m speaking with?
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Deep breath.
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I know it is.
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That s a hard duality.
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Bipolar.
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I have bipolar, just from that question.
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Giving you the EBGs.
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OK, I have an answer, but I m going to explain my answer away.
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Ready when you are, reveal.
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Should I go over the buyer s head?
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When I know there s someone else involved.
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If I m selling something to the Advanced Selling Podcast, and I m talking to Travis, and Travis is keeping the person at bay, should the person call us directly?
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Yes.
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We re going to get a billion calls.
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Yes.
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OK.
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I said no.
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OK.
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But I think I have an asterisk here.
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This is good.
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Here s my no, is, and it s kind of loaded, you re gonna say, oh, that s kind of a cop out.
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I never want you to think about going over someone s head.
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That s the, so I always want you to think about including everyone in the process.
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So if you re asking yourself, should I go over their head, my answer is no, never go over anyone s head, is my answer.
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Sit back and say, how should I engage this group in a process that s valuable for them and valuable for us?
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And then let that decide your next move.
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That s my thing.
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A little bit of a cop-out on my answer, I know.
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SPEAKER_01
No, it s not a cop-out.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ll rescue you there.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t think it s a cop-out.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think it s somewhere in between.
1
SPEAKER_00
A lot of it depends.
1
SPEAKER_00
I just heard a guy who used to be with Bain Consulting.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re familiar with Bain Consulting?
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, Bain, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
And Bill Bain, who was the founder, had this rule that we never call on anybody but the CEO.
1
SPEAKER_00
We never call on the head of management.
1
SPEAKER_00
And these were people who were doing a lot of business in large Fortune 100 companies.
1
SPEAKER_00
He said, never do we call on anybody but the CEO.
1
SPEAKER_00
But he said, once we talk to the CEO, never do we ignore everybody else in the organization.
1
SPEAKER_00
So if we re getting ready to do a manufacturing thing, and the CEO says, well, let s do the manufacturing thing, then Bill Bain would say, I m not doing anything until I talk to your head of manufacturing.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
1
SPEAKER_00
So kind of to your point there, let s make sure that we re inclusive and we include all the people who are either in the decision process or in the value.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re the ones that are getting the value from it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I agree with you.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t like the whole going over their head, because it just feels like, well, when you put it that way, of course not.
1
SPEAKER_00
Exactly right.
1
SPEAKER_00
But then again, if you need to know something that only the president of the company knows, then why are you limiting yourself from talking to them?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Then the question is how to do it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s a whole other deal.
1
SPEAKER_01
But that s the don t go over people, just that whole thought.
1
SPEAKER_01
But that s how people think.
1
SPEAKER_01
We hear it all the time.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we hear it in this hesitation.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m not sure I want to go over Tom s head.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m like, well, yeah, totally.
1
SPEAKER_01
I agree.
1
SPEAKER_00
Don t go over, Tom said.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s a different way to do that.
1
SPEAKER_01
So hey, maybe we should play this game again.
1
SPEAKER_01
Can you go around him?
1
SPEAKER_01
Should I?
1
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
Tom, can you go through him?
1
SPEAKER_01
Around and through?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
We re all just energies.
1
SPEAKER_01
Twist Tom into a pretzel and then jump over him.
1
SPEAKER_01
Deepak says we re all just energies, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
We re the center of the universe.
1
SPEAKER_01
The universe is infinite.
1
SPEAKER_01
Therefore, you are the center of the universe.
1
SPEAKER_01
Pure potential.
1
SPEAKER_01
Pure potentiality.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m all over the Sadhguru, by the way.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s my new favorite person.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my gosh.
1
SPEAKER_01
He was so great.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sadhguru.
1
SPEAKER_00
S-A-D-H-G-U-R-U.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, Instagram and TikTok.
1
SPEAKER_00
I can listen to that guy for hours.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was listening to him this morning.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s fantastic.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sadhguru.
1
SPEAKER_01
You re welcome.
1
SPEAKER_01
So hey, if you haven t already checked out our LinkedIn group, please go do that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Lots of people joining there, lots of good discussions.
1
SPEAKER_01
Let s play this game again.
1
SPEAKER_01
Should I?
1
SPEAKER_01
Should I, yes or no?
1
SPEAKER_01
So if you want to play should I, yes or no, go to the LinkedIn group, put in your should I questions.
1
SPEAKER_01
You can ask three or four, and maybe we ll pull those out for another episode.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe we ll get some better yes, no cards.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, let s get some better questions too.
1
SPEAKER_01
We came up with the questions ourselves.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so our listeners go to the LinkedIn group page and put in your questions.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Should I?
1
SPEAKER_00
If we like them, we ll use them.
1
SPEAKER_01
If we don t, we will publicly shame you.
1
SPEAKER_01
Little pound hashtag, should I?
1
SPEAKER_01
Should I?
1
SPEAKER_01
How would I?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Turn it into a drinking game, but we won t drink.
1
SPEAKER_00
How s that?
1
SPEAKER_00
That s probably good.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Bye.
1
SPEAKER_00
See you next time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Bye.