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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we discuss the gender identity of the Hawaiian Islands, Bill hops on the therapy couch live and in studio, and we explore the oft-avoided topic of playing the victim.
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in the history of sales training podcast.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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We are here every Monday for your listening enjoyment, for your education, your training, your sales betterment, your life betterment.
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And we are thrilled that you are with us.
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If you re a new listener, we welcome you.
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Tell all of your friends about us.
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We have a wonderful tribe, about 8,800 people.
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Last check in the LinkedIn group.
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We re on the road.
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If you d like us to come see you, there s always the pressure to find something clever to do at a sales meeting or a sales retreat.
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If you want something really fun, you should invite Bill and me to come out and record the podcast live.
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Send us an email, listenerinadvancesellingpodcast.com.
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Put in come see us, and we ll tell you all about that.
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That live recording bit is a fun thing to do.
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We ve got one of those scheduled, another one we re talking about.
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So good thing for us to do, good thing for you to enjoy.
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Send us an email, listenerinadvancesellingpodcast.com.
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Come see us, and we ll start the process.
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I may have asked you this before, but does a podcast like ours fit under sales enablement?
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You know, in all my research in sales enablement, I m not quite sure.
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We ve had a couple of nasty grams, haven t we?
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We have.
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We did a sales enablement.
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From relatives, even.
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We did.
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From a sales enablement podcast episode we did a little while back, some of the sales enablement people maybe took offense to that.
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Do you know, I heard an ad, last week we talked about an ad that I saw at Starbucks, this week I heard an ad on radio, and I m always interested in how people communicate ideas and how people take sales communication, sales messages.
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Here s an ad for a trip to the Azores.
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I assume it s a cruise.
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Do you cruise to the, that s a long way.
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Maybe you fly and then cruise around the island.
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But it was an ad for a local radio station who was going to do a thing.
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And the words were, it s so beautiful there.
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Just imagine if the islands of Hawaii had a baby.
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Now, is that how you would describe?
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Well, it depends.
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Doesn t it make you wonder, how did this island have a baby?
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Who were the father?
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Who was the mother?
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What was the process of having the baby?
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And which of the Hawaiian islands is a girl?
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And which of the Hawaiian islands is a boy?
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I thought they were family.
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I didn t know they could copulate.
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It sounds to me like it s diminishing to the Azores.
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Is that where it is?
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Yeah.
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That s kind of, wouldn t the Hawaiian islands be the little guy and gal to the Azores?
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I thought those were.
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Like really good, big time special items.
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Like the Azores are the father and mother to the Hawaiian islands.
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Exactly, the grandfather and grandmother.
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Anyway, I don t know why that was interesting.
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Have you been to Hawaii?
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Yeah.
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I ve never been to Hawaii.
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Hawaii s beautiful.
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Oh, I heard it s fantastic.
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It s great.
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I haven t been, which I always think about this when it s February in Indiana.
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Right, right.
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Why the hell I live here?
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Home is home, but I m like, what am I doing here?
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It s actually not been too bad.
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Great time, yeah.
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I read an article the other day online, I think, although it doesn t matter, about being a victim.
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In our society, we re starting to hear more and more people talk about how healthy is it or how unhealthy is it to be a victim.
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The title of this article was, Being a Victim is Bad for Your Health.
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And we re not talking here about true victims.
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We re talking here about emotional victims.
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And as I read that article, I thought, I wonder how many times
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sales professionals, and I have to look at myself, too, and say, when do I fall into that victim trap, into that mode of someone else is doing something to me, or I can t help myself, or I can t get out of this place that I m in?
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And those are all kind of victim traps.
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And so we talked in the pre-show about this idea of how do we, I know we re not calling ourselves a victim, but do we ever even just
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you know, kind of float into victim mentality.
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And I thought maybe if we could go over some of the, A, do you see it happening with some of your clients or maybe you?
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And then two, can we offer some indicators that let you know you might be slipping into that?
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Yeah, I ve never ever experienced this, Bill.
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I don t know what you re talking about.
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Yeah, well, you wouldn t.
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Yeah, I m actually leaving here.
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You re a victim of goodness.
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I m leaving here to go talk to a man that I pay $400 an hour to tell me that I m actually a victim.
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So I ll see you then.
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OK.
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True story.
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So this is something I think that is, I don t know how you say this, it s a blind spot for most people.
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Most people really, really struggle, me included, I m holding my hand up for that one, to see when and where you actually show signs of being a victim.
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And from a sales standpoint, I don t think there is a better thing to do than to shine a light on this particular blind spot, because this is one that can really paralyze you and really, really inhibit you
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until you come to terms with the areas in which you play victim and understand how those things impact you in the sales process.
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So great, great topic.
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I m glad you brought it.
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So I ve got two or three, and I think you do too.
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I ll start with the first one here.
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And that is this idea of when you find yourself saying or thinking something.
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So why don t I use that as a title then we can maybe talk.
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Like one thing I think that people find themselves saying as well,
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I m unable to do that here.
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My company doesn t allow me to do that.
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Or yeah, you can do that, Bill and Brian, because you do this and that.
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But it s all different for me.
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And it may be.
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But somewhere in between doing the thing that we re recommending and doing nothing and being a victim is something you might be able to do to get you on the right path.
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So this idea of I m waiting on somebody, I can t do that, I think maybe I can t might be the two words that
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And there are two versions to me also of I can t.
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I can t, meaning I m not able to, I don t have the skill to do that.
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And there s the restrictive rule-bearing I can t, which is I m not allowed to.
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Correct.
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Both, I think, play a role there.
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Both are there.
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And there s no doubt.
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You start to think of any great thing that ever happened, there typically was no path or
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instruction book with it.
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Think of anyone who started a business or started a country or did anything like that that s amazing.
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They weren t saying, well, we re not allowed to do that.
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They just didn t do that.
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They saw it a different way.
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And it doesn t mean you can do it or you won t get in trouble or anything like that.
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But boy, great things can come from letting go of that.
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Here s one of my pet peeve ones.
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It is what it is, right?
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It is what it is.
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And so as you re hearing- What was that?
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Was that like a broadcast?
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It s probably one of my clients that I m not naming.
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So they ll say that and think that.
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And so whatever happens.
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So we re doing a price increase.
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Or this.
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Like, well, yeah.
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So you guys ready to go out?
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And I m coaching them.
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Like, you guys ready to go out and talk about the da-da-da-da?
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You know that, well, it is what it is.
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I mean, I guess we got to sort of thing.
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It s like, it s just the whole energy of it is so draining.
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It is what it is, is one of the biggest kind of, to me, apathetic, victimized statements you can make.
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If you think that or say that, stop.
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Yeah, that s good.
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It is what it is.
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I ve got one here, which is, if you ever are feeling like something is harder than it should be, whether it s generating new appointments or controlling the sales process or whatever, and you default to that, hey, Brian, I know you can do it, but it s hard.
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It s hard for me.
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And that s not necessarily, in and of itself, anything unless you take no action.
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I could say to you, well, Brian, what you re telling me is true, but that s really hard for me.
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But you know what?
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I m going to figure out a way, and I m going to get some coaching from you on how I can do this.
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It s a whole lot different than, that s hard.
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It s hard for us in our business, because our distributors, they don t think that way.
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It s so true, isn t it?
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It s unbelievable.
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I had a client today say that in a training session.
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And she said, that s really hard around here.
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And I said, I m sure it is.
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It s like, yeah, it doesn t mean that you don t do it or don t stop.
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I mean, that s just part of the deal.
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What did Jeb Blunt said, and I read a little thing from him, a fellow sales coach down in Atlanta, and said, that s why they call it sales, not order taking.
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Order taking is easy.
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We can do that.
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Computers can do that.
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Sales is hard.
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But you don t let that stop you with things.
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Yeah, I can t get to the decision maker.
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It s hard to.
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CEOs don t see salespeople, those kinds of things.
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And again, we know that.
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So OK, now what?
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Now how are we going to use that?
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information, because really, all that is is data.
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How are we going to use that data and figure out a way around it?
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Here s one that you and I hear almost 100% of the time when we go into a new client.
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And that is, my business is different.
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Our business, we hear it all the time.
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Bill and I will go into a new client, and inevitably, it s typically a veteran, not always.
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And they ll say, well, our business is a little different than probably some of your other businesses.
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That s a good point, Brian.
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I really like what you re saying here.
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Yeah, I really like that here business is a little bit different.
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So what I think and say back to that is like, OK, good for you.
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And firstly, it tells me where the people are, that they re in that victim mode.
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But secondly, I think it s probably one of the most inhibiting things you can think of.
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It shuts down all creativity and openness to new things.
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It just sort of says, this business is different, dot, dot, dot.
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It does what it does and goes what it goes.
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I can t influence it, therefore I m a prisoner and a victim.
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I just wrote that word down, influence.
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Your business is not different if you are trying to influence another human being, whether it s influence the front desk lady to send you back to the CEO, or whether it s somebody in your organization you re trying to influence to let you do more articles on LinkedIn.
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Whatever it is, you are in the business of influencing people.
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That never changes.
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No.
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It s such a silly thing to say.
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Of course, they re all different.
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They re all different.
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Even McDonald s and Wendy s is different.
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Yes, they are.
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It just drives me nuts.
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Anyway.
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Here s one that I struggle with.
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So I m going to hop on the couch here.
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OK, sure.
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Well, not hop on.
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I m going to lay down on the couch.
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I won t charge you $400.
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I m going to hop on the couch.
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This one s free.
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That s a pretty good deal that guy s got.
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Buy a coffee.
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It s when we think of something that we should do, like, oh, you know what would be cool?
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And I think we ve actually done this on the podcast occasionally.
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I don t think we ve ever recorded those conversations.
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But you know what would be cool?
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If we did this and this, and one of us, somebody else goes, oh, yeah, that d be cool.
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And then within five seconds, we say, yeah, but that s a lot of work.
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There s no way we can do that.
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And it s you talk yourself out of something before you even really flesh it out and say, OK, that sounds like a lot of work, but what the hell?
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Let s flesh it out.
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Let s bullet point it.
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Let s project plan it.
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Let s spend, I think Dan Sullivan says, if you have an idea, spend 30 minutes fleshing it out.
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If you re no more excited at the end of that 30 minutes, or if you re as excited then, you might have something.
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If you get bored with it after 30 minutes, good riddance.
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Absolutely.
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That s funny.
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And you say that.
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I m in one of Dan s programs, and I had a chance to meet with him.
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back in the winter.
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And he does that with his ideas.
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When he comes up with a new product idea, he goes kind of the opposite way.
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So he goes to all the positives and how it can.
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And he doesn t like the criticism of it.
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So he gets his idea flushed out.
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Then he gives it to the person who s the, nah, you can t do it separately.
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Because what he said was that kills him.
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So what you re talking about is if you re the one that
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says, hey, that idea is too hard.
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It can kill everything around it, and Ruthie, and that sort of thing.
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He doesn t let that happen, though, until he does the idea.
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Exactly.
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Until it s already out there.
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He resists any of that urge to naysay it.
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He s got someone to help him do that.
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This one has come up a lot for me with current clients right now.
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I don t know why.
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I just tizzed the season.
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And that is,
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you just don t get it, meaning our company just doesn t get it.
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So I ll hear my sales clients talking about their operations, their marketing, their president, their CEO.
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He hasn t been out in the field for seven years.
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He just doesn t get it about their CEO.
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Well, he s on this rant about this thing.
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He just doesn t get it, that sort of thing.
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That is such a victimizing statement to just, to me, it endorses why that person s the CEO and you re
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not or whatever.
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And so then I always say, okay, if he doesn t get it, why don t you help him get it?
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Help him get it.
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Absolutely.
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Invite him out in the field.
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Was there ever a time where you didn t get it?
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Right, exactly.
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And you ve gotten it, apparently.
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Yes.
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You ve got it all together.
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So maybe there s a lesson.
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Maybe there s a one-pager.
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Maybe there s a take her out to dinner and talk about how to get it.
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I wouldn t title the dinner How to Get It.
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There s a wonderful model that we both are aware of that s in the book called The Oz Principle.
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It s called above the line, below the line.
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And if you ve not read the article, read the book, you should just Google it.
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There s a lot of information on it.
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It s been around for a long time.
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Above the line, below the line.
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But it is a great model to help you stay out of this victim mentality, which they describe as below the line, and helps you work your way back up.
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And creates, for me, more than anything, a self-awareness day to day when you re doing that.
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And I think that s the trick in this whole game.
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And what usually happens with that, and then the Dan Sullivan thing, is when you start looking at the positive aspects and really flesh it out, something within there will pop out as the real idea.
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So the real idea may not be your original idea.
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It may be something that occurs after you say, well, you know what?
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I m going to give this some attention for 20, 30, 40 minutes, or an hour, or a weekend, or I m going to sleep on it, or however you do your process.
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So I like that.
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I like that topic.
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And I would encourage listeners, if you caught those five, four or five things, think about that to yourself.
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And say, do I see myself in any of those things?
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And let us know.
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You can email us at listenerinadvancesellingpodcast.com.
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Go on the LinkedIn site, on the group site.
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If you re not a member, go there and join.
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And I d like to get some conversations around this, because this can be a big stopper for us.
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A great, great topic, and one that s really, really needed and not talked about much.
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So if you have a question for us, make sure you record it, voice memo on your phone, email it in to listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com, include your physical mailing address, and we will get a little treat out to you that I think will amuse you.
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And make sure you also, if you have a summit, symposium, conference, retreat, sales meeting, anything like that, launch meeting,
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Make sure you send us an email at listener at Advanced Selling Podcast with a subject line, come see us.
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And we would love to come out and visit with you and spend a day or so with you.
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Spend a whole week, I don t know.
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It s a little bit more money to spend the whole week, but it might be worth it.
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As long as it s in the Azores.
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Yeah, a little further islands.
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The baby island.
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All right, see you next time.
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Bye.