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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we reflect on 2020 with a little rant that will not go over well with our epidemiologist listeners.
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I am dumbfounded that Bill doesn t know this American icon, and I wonder if you know him and love him like I do.
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And we get deep on a mechanical topic by asking what do we do when everything is perfect except for the scoreboard?
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Welcome to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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We re here every week.
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Happy almost end of the year.
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Everyone s ready for 2020 to be over.
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Yes, sir.
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I got to tell you, though, I had a great 2020.
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And I m not sugarcoating it.
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Business was really great.
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Everyone stayed good.
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I mean, it s got its problems here and there.
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There was enough good.
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I don t know.
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Enough good.
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There was enough good.
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The nice thing about our business, though, is we re not tied to one industry.
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Correct.
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And so if we were tied to the restaurant industry, or jewelry stores, or retail of some kind, it might be a problem.
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Small problem.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I didn t really follow much of the advice, much of the experts.
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I kind of get a little critical of experts, even in this space.
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I think you ve got to be really careful with who you believe, what you believe.
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If somebody is saying you ve got to do it this way, I always feel like, well, wait a minute.
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What s the other interest you have in making me do something this way?
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Followed the local rules, but I didn t really follow the national rules because I think I feel like you know, there was there was no clear Understanding of what was happening and it was a lot of people just shooting from the hip.
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So I was outside a lot I moved around a lot I
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It worked out a lot.
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Stayed healthy.
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Stayed healthy.
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This notion that you close the gyms so that people can t work out and people can t build their immune systems.
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I always feel like how many, and this is getting political, so here we go.
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From the time this thing started in March.
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How many times have you heard politicians, leaders, and I m not talking about any party, CDC, WHO, all these so-called experts, how much time have they spent telling us to build our immune system?
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Zero.
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Zero.
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Zero.
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No time.
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So then I start to wonder, well, I wonder why that is.
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Do we not have immune systems?
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No, we have them.
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Why aren t they interested in that?
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Well, there s no money in immune system building, I presume.
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No.
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No.
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Me going for a walk, there s no money in that.
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There s no money.
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in that for anybody.
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And so that s kind of the follow the money thing.
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And also, do we just not think of that?
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I mean, isn t that the answer to all of this is if our immune system is solid and the virus hits us, it bounces off.
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Yeah, yeah.
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All the epidemiologists that were listening, which we have dozens of epidemiologists that listen, will now turn us off.
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They ll be mad about that.
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Because of the immune system?
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No, because they just,
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Think that it doesn t matter if you have a bad immune system or a good immune system.
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I don t know.
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I don t know.
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That s I don t know Okay, I don t know their podcast.
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Yeah, that was good though.
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I like a little fired up there.
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I like it Yeah, I mean to me you keep really good care of yourself.
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You always have it s the same thing.
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Thank you It s the same thing that we deal with with our clients is work on the real problem.
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Yeah
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Yeah, right.
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Work on the real frickin  problem.
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Don t work on a problem that s a symptom of another problem.
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Work on the root or rut problem.
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Yes.
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And it s a logic issue, too.
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So if you read Bill s book, Same Game, New Rules, there s a quote in there that says, it is by Blaise Pascal, I believe.
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I think it s in your book.
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And I think it says, if you
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believe in God and God does not exist, there is little harm done.
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If you don t believe in God and God does exist, there is much harm done.
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It s sort of a logical reason to believe in God.
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I m not saying that s why people should, but that s the logic.
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Same deal.
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You can build your immune system up and there have been plenty of really healthy people that have died, right?
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Plenty.
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Absolutely.
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And yet, no one s going to argue that you building your immune system up is a bad approach to defending yourself against any sickness.
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Correct.
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You can t argue that.
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Now, it s no guarantee it s going to protect you.
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There s anecdotal evidence.
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Absolutely.
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There s little here and there.
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But you can t say that s not a contributing factor.
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No.
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The strength of your immune system is a contributing factor, I got to think, for everything.
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For all disease.
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For all disease.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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OK, this is now the Health and Wellness podcast.
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OK, so topic today.
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We are going to riff on a topic that came up in a couple of different clients.
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It s interesting that you have these seasons of problems.
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You ve been doing this a long time, Bill.
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Same here.
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So you have these seasons.
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It s like, why does this keep coming up?
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So here s the situation.
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And we re going to play all sides of the problem here, which is the salesperson s viewpoint.
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and the sales leader s viewpoint.
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And if you re a sales leader, you will listen with that filter.
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If you re a sales person, you ll listen with that filter.
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But I ask you to open yourself up to the other side to try to see this problem from different dimensions as opposed to just through your own.
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So here s the problem.
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Everything is perfect, OK?
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The behavior of the salespeople is great.
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It s off the chart.
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We have records.
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This is a real story, by the way, real client.
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Record-setting outbound behavior, record-setting quote activity,
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fantastic, committed training and coaching, multiple scrimmage sessions, role plays, great culture, company-wise and sales-wise, fantastic attitudes, very clear direction, full compliance to salesforce.com, everything is detail-oriented, everything is solid, and the scoreboard sucks.
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The only thing that s wrong is that last bit of conversion.
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And so the question is, when you re in this environment where everything should be good and it s not, what do you do if you re the salesperson?
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What do you do if you re the coach?
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That s the thing we want to riff on today, is what do you do when everything is good?
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So it s not a behavior problem.
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It s not like we don t have enough leads.
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It s not like the salespeople are lazy not doing anything.
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It s not like we don t have visibility into salesforce.com.
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The CRM tells us the whole story.
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We manage all of our numbers and everything.
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It s not like we don t have a lot of quality.
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Everything s good, but nothing s spitting out.
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OK?
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Let s remove the industry, like the 2020.
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Yeah, it doesn t matter.
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No, no.
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It doesn t matter what year it is and what s going on.
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Let s riff on that a little bit.
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Yeah, as you were telling the story there, well-crafted story.
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I fully understand it.
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I feel like I m there.
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I ve been working on it for months.
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I feel like I m right there.
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For months.
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Oh, wait.
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I mean minutes.
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Sorry.
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Yeah.
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What went through my mind?
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What went through my mind is the difference between the mechanics of it all, which you outlined that all the mechanics seem right, and the mindset of it all.
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I don t know if mindset s the right word there.
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I was looking for an M word.
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Just the overall how the salesperson shows up.
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And I m going to use salesperson here, even though I know there might be other people involved.
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But how does the salesperson show up in the market?
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Yeah, mechanics are right.
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I m making the calls.
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I m doing all the things.
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I m CRM and Salesforce and training.
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But is there much attention paid to when I show up in front of a prospect, or on the phone, or virtual webinar, what am I bringing to the table?
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Am I bringing that part of me that wants a result?
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Or am I bringing that part of me that doesn t give a flying flip about the result, and I m only here and present with my prospect?
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And I know you will probably say, because I m sure if you re training them, you re spending time on that part.
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But I still feel like if all the mechanics are right, there s something missing inside.
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There s no mechanics.
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It s not like you can say, you ve got to go do more behavior, because you re doing the behavior.
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Exactly.
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No, even as you said that, and I reflect about this, and it s a couple of different engagements.
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But we certainly, on one of them, went a little heavy on the mechanics route.
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as I think about it sitting here, versus maybe stepping back with our energy and doing a couple of deep dives into our head, heart, and soul here to get that square.
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Because you can be over-mechanic.
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Does that make sense?
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You can be over-skilled.
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You can be over either way.
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Truth.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so that s a really good thing.
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And as I reflect back on what I ve done to contribute to the problem, that s part of it.
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is that.
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Now, I think you, though, knowing you, I think you lean a little bit more toward the mechanics.
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I lean a little bit more toward the mindset.
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Not crazy, not at opposite ends of the spectrum, but I think generally that s where.
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So I look at this and say, sounds like a mindset problem.
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You might have one of my clients you detect and say, you re not teaching enough mechanics.
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So I think that s the beauty of us having a podcast is we can bring both of those flavors in.
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Yes.
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And I think what the, yeah, I think it s the examination of that stuff.
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Because we have a rule, and I do always follow my rule.
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The rule is I say, I always start in the thinking column.
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I always, in my clients, it resonates.
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But what we do is we just
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just sort of touch it.
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We don t go deep on it.
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Does that make sense?
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Yes.
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We just touch it.
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We re just like, okay, yeah, that and that.
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Okay, good.
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Okay, now let s go on.
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What do we do?
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And say we go flip to that quickly.
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Yeah, that s really good.
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Here s the problem, and this is another episode, but here s what I... You know that I study this stuff, and I m interested in...
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in high achievement, but not killing myself to get there, not advising my clients just to, if you want to double your business, you ve got to work 90 hours a week.
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I don t buy that.
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I don t believe that.
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So I m always looking at, well, what s deeper?
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What can I connect with deeper that allows me to either do different behavior, bigger behavior?
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It s more quality behavior when I do it, whether I m making calls or whatever.
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We talk on the podcast a lot about detachment and high intent and feeling abundant.
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And we say, if you can adopt those mindsets, then the mechanics get easier and the results come.
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But at the heart of all those mindsets is what?
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Because it s easy to talk about detachment and abundance and intent, but talking about it doesn t make it so.
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It at least brings some awareness to it.
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And you say, oh, you know what?
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I was feeling scarce at that last call.
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You know what?
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And that s good.
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So you get a little bit of the ways there.
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But I think that the deep down most innermost thought
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that allows you to be detached and have high intent is self-acceptance.
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Yeah.
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And the ability that you have to accept yourself, flaws, warts, and all, and appreciate yourself and love yourself in a way, and that sounds really squishy and a little too Charles Handy.
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What was his name?
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Who?
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Stuart.
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Stuart Smalley.
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Stuart Smalley.
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Stuart Smalley.
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It sounds a little that way, but really when you, but the problem is that, how do you introduce that in a corporate training?
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You know, we re going to work on self-love today.
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We re going to work on self-acceptance today.
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Why do you say that?
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Because I m looking on my phone, because I just prescribed this for somebody.
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Wow.
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Which is funny.
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Hang on.
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I got to get the author right.
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Ready?
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Look, it s right there.
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Boom, right there.
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Just, do you know this guy?
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You know him, you commented on one of his things.
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Kamal Ravikant?
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Yeah, his book, Love Yourself Like Your Life Depends On It.
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I didn t know that was it, I couldn t see it.
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Yeah, Love Yourself Like Your Life Depends On It.
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I ve listened to this thing four times.
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It s a very good book.
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It s such a good book.
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Love Yourself Like Your Life Depends On It, and he s a tech business guy who was in a real dark spot, and this is how he got out of it.
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So it applies, it s really great.
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I love that book.
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It s really great.
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Yeah, but I think self-acceptance and there s a lot of sources for that hit his and others but for sure and so then You know, I don t know how you introduce that we re gonna bump up sales today by talking about self-love.
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Yes, right but yeah, but there is something to it because when you are
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And it s not just about the results and sales.
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It could be something as simple as, why don t you do more LinkedIn videos, John?
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Well, you know, I never know what to say.
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And that s probably a lie.
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It probably is.
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I don t have enough self-confidence to do it.
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Because I m afraid if I put myself out there, people aren t going to judge me.
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And I won t get anything.
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In fact, it ll do me more harm than good.
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So it s easier just to stay away from it.
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That s a lack of self-acceptance.
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Yes.
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Yes, yes, and yes.
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Yes.
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So there s another, so now I m going to go mechanics on you.
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Well, that ll lighten things up.
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Exactly.
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Well, because it is.
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And I think this whole self-exploration, and the other thing I will say about on the self-exploration and that kind of love yourself and find yourself, there s a book called Seasons of a Man s Life, written in the 20s, I think, 1920s, Seasons of a Man s Life.
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And the title itself explains the book, which is what it says.
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And when I m coaching people that come to us for, especially when they re having a crappy career time or whatever, and I see these themes in the decades.
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So people in their 20s,
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tend to be figuring out the transition to grown-uphood, and they re trying, and they still haven t found themselves.
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They re still not self-accepting.
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They re chasing titles, chasing money, that sort of thing.
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They get to their 30s, and they get a little bit now desperate for this yearning for self-acceptance.
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They re like, I don t like it.
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And they re career-wise searching for what that is.
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Most people in their 40s tend to land on it.
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Not everyone tend to land on it in the 40s.
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Like, OK, I found my thing.
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I m a sales coach.
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I m a whatever.
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I m a thing.
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And they move into that 40s and 50s become the productivity years.
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In the 50s, you start to move towards this, you know, all this stuff I ve been chasing really is not, you know, all this money and stuff is like, it doesn t really matter.
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And then I think when you get in your 60s and 70s, you start to really recognize that, you know, there s much more meaning in other things than the stuff I ve been chasing.
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And then I think people get, tend to get really accepting and happy.
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when they get into their 70s and 80s, like, you know what, life s pretty good, and that sort of thing.
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Seasons of a man s life.
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But that s how I coach that to people as they re in there.
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So it helps people, because you have, sure, I m sure your clients come to you in their 20s, like, well, I don t know what to do with my life, and da-da-da-da-da.
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I m like, nobody knows what to do with their life in their 20s.
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Yeah, you think you re an odd person.
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You do, everybody says that.
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Absolutely.
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And you re not.
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You re totally normal.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, hate to break it to you.
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You re not special.
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Like, seriously, it s like, you think you re special.
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You think you re the only one.
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Like, you re really not.
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Like, everybody s this way.
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No, and there s so much biology to it as well, especially as you get to your 50s and 60s, the biological clock starts to affect your drive and ambition level and what
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looked like a mountain to go climb 10 years ago, now looks like a mountain to sit in front of it and smoke a cigar and chill and draw a painting of it.
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It s not all bad, said Bob Ross.
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But that s a... There s a pretty little bush, nice little bush, little Van Dyke Brown.
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The Joy of Painting?
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The Joy of Painting?
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Bob Ross, yeah.
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Bill Kasky.
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The Joy of Painting?
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Bill Kasky.
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You don t know The Joy of Painting.
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He s from Muncie.
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The joy of painting is, he s the guy with the big Afro, white dude with the big Afro, who had a painting show on public television, and he talks like this.
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Is it Bob Ross?
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There is a Bob Ross.
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Oh, it is Bob Ross.
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That s Bob Ross, yeah, yeah.
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Little painter, and he talks like this, and he says, there s a little happy tree.
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He s actually become this iconic, like young people all know who he is now.
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It s really great, actually.
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I used to watch him.
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It s funny, you used to watch him and not know how cool it was when it wasn t cool.
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And I m surprised, Muncie.
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I m usually up on Muncie celebrities.
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Yeah, he s from Muncie, as far as I know.
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I think he recorded it in Muncie in his studio.
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Oh, Joy of Painting.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, Joy of Painting, there you go.
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SPEAKER_01
Two great things that come out of Muncie, Indiana, right?
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SPEAKER_01
Dave Letterman and Bob Ross.
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SPEAKER_01
Who s a happy little bush?
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SPEAKER_01
Just tap it, just tap it.
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SPEAKER_01
I ll have to check that out.
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Put a little Van Dyke brown.
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SPEAKER_00
So in your question, are we getting anywhere on that, or did I get you stuck in the muck of the mindset?
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No, no, I love the mindset.
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I think where people struggle is they don t know what to do with that.
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They understand it, and they know what to do if I tell them to make 10 more calls.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s easy.
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SPEAKER_00
They know how to do that.
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If I say, dig into where your attachments lie, they don t know how to do that.
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And it s terrifying and everything else.
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So I m not making an excuse for it, but it s like, they don t know what to do.
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And yet, that s where the biggest growth comes.
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So there s the thing.
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SPEAKER_00
So then the question I would have for them
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SPEAKER_00
is when you show up in the process, whatever that is, when you show up, what beliefs do you have?
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SPEAKER_00
What beliefs do you have about yourself, them, customer, process?
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SPEAKER_00
Maybe it s a belief issue, and the only way you can determine if it is is to literally find out what their beliefs are.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I would say to you, Brian, you ve got a call coming up here in an hour.
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It s a first call on somebody.
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Tell me what your beliefs are about that call.
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SPEAKER_00
Just tell me what you re thinking.
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SPEAKER_00
Just start to.
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Because when they start to talk, you start to find out what their beliefs really are.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
And I think we have to get, you almost have to play therapist there a little bit.
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SPEAKER_01
You do.
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SPEAKER_01
So you have to ask questions that are therapy-like, questions like, what are you most afraid of with this deal?
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So tell me how you re going to feel about yourself if they call you and say, the deal s off.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Tell me all the adjectives you would use to describe yourself if the deal s off.
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Tell me the ones you d describe if the deal s on.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
So this is where it gets, we have to, and again, I hate to do this, or maybe I don t, but we have to mechanize the exploration at some degree for people to be able to do it.
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Because I don t think people are gifted.
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They don t know what to do.
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SPEAKER_00
I think that s where the coach, though, I think it s hard to do for yourself.
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I think that s why I m sure you do this with your coaching clients, is if you have a big deal, a big situation, a presentation, or a call, call me first.
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Let s walk through it so that you don t call me afterwards saying, I jacked that up.
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SPEAKER_00
No, it s true.
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I want to know up front.
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SPEAKER_00
And part of that coaching is, how are you feeling about this?
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, this would be a nice one, Brian.
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SPEAKER_00
And this would make my year.
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SPEAKER_00
You re looking at it wrong.
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SPEAKER_00
So you re screwed.
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If that s the belief you take in with you, you re screwed.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
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We have to believe all.
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And we have to believe it on both sides.
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SPEAKER_01
The other thing is we can t believe that we re great when we get a big deal.
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We can t.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s just that deal was the right one at the right time, and that s what came up.
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SPEAKER_01
So what I think what I m taking from all this with the topic is to delve deep.
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SPEAKER_01
So when you ve got this condition where all the mechanics look right and the scoreboard doesn t, where do you go?
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SPEAKER_01
A place to go is in this mindset and energy side.
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SPEAKER_01
Self-discovery.
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SPEAKER_01
And we explore as the sales leader, the coach.
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SPEAKER_01
And then when I said both of you, both sales managers and salespeople, listen with an open mind,
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SPEAKER_01
is the salesperson has to make themselves vulnerable there to be able to open up and explore that.
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SPEAKER_01
And the sales leader has to have the guts to go there.
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SPEAKER_01
Because it s safe for the sales leader to stay in mechanics, isn t it?
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SPEAKER_01
It s super safe.
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SPEAKER_01
We love mechanics.
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We re like, I don t know what to do with that.
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SPEAKER_01
So that s where the true growth is.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and it s like you just said something else.
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SPEAKER_00
We could go for a long time here.
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SPEAKER_00
We won t.
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SPEAKER_00
But we bring ourselves, I think I said this, we bring ourselves to the table, whether it s Thanksgiving table or whether it s prospect.
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SPEAKER_00
And this is all we got.
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SPEAKER_00
This is all we got is what s in our body and what s in our mind.
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SPEAKER_00
We bring that.
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SPEAKER_00
If we are somehow unsettled,
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SPEAKER_00
or ashamed, or don t believe in ourselves, don t believe in the value of the product.
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SPEAKER_00
There s all this noise up here that gets in the way of us bringing our whole self.
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SPEAKER_00
Then we bring 80% of ourselves to the table.
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SPEAKER_00
And that extra 20% is what it takes to get the business.
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SPEAKER_00
And we don t have it.
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SPEAKER_00
We re doing the mechanics.
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SPEAKER_00
We re getting to the table.
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SPEAKER_00
We just don t have our whole self there.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
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SPEAKER_01
Or we don t get the deal.
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SPEAKER_00
And that s good, too, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
We have our whole self, but we don t get to do it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s like all the above.
2
SPEAKER_01
Good topic.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow, we went deep on that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I wasn t expecting to go there.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going to take a shower.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going to take a shower now.
2
SPEAKER_01
Very, very nice.
2
SPEAKER_01
So we are going to light a couple of candles in here, and we re just going to have a little aftercare after that.
2
SPEAKER_01
After glow.
2
SPEAKER_01
A little aftercare, a little glow up here at the Advanced Lighting Podcast.
2
SPEAKER_01
Angel lights.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes you got to do it though.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes it s not all mechanics.
2
SPEAKER_01
So next episode, we re going to talk about closing techniques in the Advanced Sewing Podcast.
2
SPEAKER_01
Love it.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you then.
2
SPEAKER_01
We got 10 closes for you here.
2
SPEAKER_01
Number one, the Ben Franklin.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Good stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.