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Welcome to the Sell or Die podcast.
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I m your host, Jeffrey Gittimer.
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And I m your host, Jen Gittimer.
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Well, in this podcast, we re going to help you attract more qualified, unbelievable, ready-to-buy clients.
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We re going to help you build loyal relationships.
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And the one thing you re hoping for, close more deals.
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Let s get into it.
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It s time to sell or die.
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Diehards, we have a special guest today.
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His name is Ben Gay, not the stuff that you rub on you.
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He s like the original Ben Gay.
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He s Ben Gay III.
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And his books about closing the sale are iconic in the sales industry because not only did he write the book, they re accurate in their thinking and in their philosophy.
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So please help me welcome today the great Ben Gay.
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Jeffrey, how are you?
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I m fine.
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Tell me about J. Douglas Edwards and what impact he had on you when you were growing up.
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Well, I won a little sales contest in Atlanta with a company called Holiday Magic Cosmetics.
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And first prize was a trip to Miami, Florida and a dinner with J. Douglas Edwards.
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Oh, wow.
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who was legendary in sales training back then.
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You and I have discussed it.
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Anyone of our generation was trained by J. Douglas Edwards.
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Correct.
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And so indirectly, the people we ve trained were sort of trained by J. Douglas Edwards.
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So the prize was attend the seminar, sit in the front row, have dinner with
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And I write the brief little story in the beginning of Sales Closing Power, the book I wrote for his family after he died.
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But we went to the seminar and there we go, Sales Closing Power.
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That s from my notes and from his recordings, true to what J. Douglas Edwards taught us all.
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Wow.
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And so at the end of the seminar, we walk into the dining room and
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First time I d ever seen this, as we hit the door, somebody whispered, that s J. Douglas Edwards.
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And the whole room stood up and cheered for walking into a dining room.
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Cool.
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So I thought, well, I m in the right place.
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So we sat down.
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Doug handed the waiter a $100 bill, which today would be $1,000.
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And he said, the gentleman handed his menus and Doug handed the menus back and he said, no, we ll just need water.
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This young man tells me he wants to be a salesman and we re gonna achieve that tonight.
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And until the vacuum cleaner started running, we just talked, mainly I listened.
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So that was my introduction to Doug on a personal level.
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Of course, I ve had his records
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Yeah.
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And all that stuff.
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I actually, we sophisticated.
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I went from his records to his cassette tapes.
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Right.
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That was a big upgrade at the time.
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But Diehard, I want you to see the inside of this book.
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Every other page is blank and it s blank for a reason.
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So that as you re reading it, you can absorb it by taking notes, figuring out how you re going to put this into your practice, into your business.
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This is a brilliant strategy for a book.
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In the beginning of the book, you re going to see a picture of Ben Gay.
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It s his Bar Mitzvah picture.
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When I turned 13.
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But the book also has his.
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This is so good.
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It s just very well done.
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Bookmark and autograph, which I m very grateful for.
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And the challenge is this.
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The principles of selling don t change.
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Technology changes.
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But if the customer does not perceive that you re helping him or her, you lose.
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And if the conversation is not one that engages the other person in a way where they want to buy from you, you lose.
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But the classic line of J. Douglas Edwards is, when you ask a question, the answer to which confirms the sale, you shut up.
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And the next person who speaks loses.
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And you remember in seminars, he screamed that.
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Oh, yeah.
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You ask a closing question, you shut up.
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I know.
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I laughed and loved, I loved him and Herb True, who was a humorist.
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And I thought, and humor has played a major role in my speaking to salespeople.
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I always, you know, always made them laugh, still do, because it relaxes people and it makes them want to buy.
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Tell me about your specific philosophy of selling.
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Our diehards want to know.
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Well, one of the things you just mentioned was selling hasn t changed.
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People, you know, say old school selling and new school selling.
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And, you know, what s the difference?
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I said, there isn t any.
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Right.
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The India silk trainers on their sailboats use the same techniques that good professional salespeople use today.
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The Yankee peddler on his or her, I think his mainly, horse riding throughout New England use the same techniques.
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The technology is faster, even since I ve been in selling, you and I are about the same age.
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When we were recruited, we encountered somebody, invited them to a meeting or whatever, got in our car, went and drove across Atlanta and picked them up and brought them back and so on.
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And I like to say I ve addressed as best I can figure about two and a half million people live, you know, one on one in over 5,000 paid seminars.
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prisons and so on.
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And today I can talk to two and a half million people this week if I want to.
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So that s changed radically.
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But selling is selling.
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People still have one dominant question.
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What s in it for me?
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And they like to buy from people they know, like, trust, and with whom they feel safe.
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That was true of the silk traders 2,000 years ago, whenever it was.
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That was true of the Yankee peddler 300 or 400 years ago.
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It s true today.
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It s amazing what salespeople don t understand in an uncomplicated world of sales because they try to complicate it.
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Right.
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And I ve been guilty of helping that, and I think all sales trainers have, in that I could tell you how to sell and what to do effectively and so on in about five minutes.
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You re not going to pay me $10,000 for five minutes, so I have to stretch it into, I have a 10-day seminar, a five-day seminar, a two-day seminar.
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But when the dust settles, the important things, you d have to do some work on your own after this.
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The important things can be explained in about five minutes.
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Pick a quality product or service that is competitively priced and spend your day talking to people who are qualified to buy it.
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And that s the short, short version and then sell yourself first and all the other things.
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But it s a very simple process gunked up.
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by people who are teaching it to justify their existence, and jumped up by people who are trying to avoid learning the process.
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If I can make it complicated enough, I can justify not selling.
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I have to tell you, there s a book out called The Complex Sale, and I want to write in the front page where it s blank, meet with the CEO, get him to like you, get him to recommend you, and walk downstairs and meet the people that actually buy, and the sale is yours.
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Complexity over.
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There you go.
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Perfect.
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It s total bullshit.
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And to me, if your sale is complex, it s because you re not meeting with the right people.
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Correct.
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You just reminded me of a great story.
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Somebody approached Rockefeller Sr.
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and asked him to invest in their project, whatever it was.
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And he listened to him.
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He said, well, frankly, it s too small for me.
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And
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I don t understand the industry and I don t invest in things I don t understand, but I like you.
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So here s what I ll do.
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I will walk slowly across the floor of the stock exchange with you deep in conversation.
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So he did.
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And the story goes, when the young man got back to his office, he was oversubscribed.
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That s classic.
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That is classic.
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You know, you have to, you have to look at selling in a new way, because social media has opened up everything to everyone, right?
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And I have claimed for years in sales, it s not who you know, it s who knows you.
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And then when they know you, are you Google-able to a point where there s some value inside of your website or your social media platform?
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And that s where the new world lies.
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But it s still the basic fundamentals.
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I m going to ask emotional questions.
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I m going to, you know, make the other guy laugh.
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I m going to, you know, be at one with him or her and make sure that they feel comfortable enough to buy from me.
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They got to like me.
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They got to believe me.
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They got to have confidence in me and ultimately trust me.
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I sell me first.
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Yeah, exactly.
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If they don t buy you, they ain t buying nothing.
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The and you know better than most people, as do I would.
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I think thirty five books out now written or ghostwritten for other people.
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This book, and the whole series, and your top book, is my passport to credibility.
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I agree.
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They probably won t read the book.
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The first time Dr. Hill was in my house visiting, my wife had put out a copy of Think and Grow Rich on the coffee table.
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So when we walked into the living room, there it sat angled right at the door.
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And I thought, oh, that s tacky.
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Yeah.
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like we all gather around the coffee table every night and read from the book.
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Yeah.
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So, trying to recover.
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So, Dr. Hill, look, Thinking We re Rich.
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How does it feel to have sold, they used to say, second only to the Bible?
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I don t know if that was true then or not.
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Yeah, pretty close.
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I think How to Win Friends may have outsold it, but that s.
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Perhaps.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Also a great book.
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But, you know, I said,
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How does it feel to have written the second best-selling book in the world?
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And he said, best-selling, least read.
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I thought that was the Bill Clinton book.
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I digress.
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I want to show you my copy, one of my original copies that doesn t have volume one.
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It s the closures.
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And I also want to show you, Diehards, the number of pages that I have dog-eared and things written in there, because I wanted to understand who this guy who had the balls to write a book on closing a sale without having the balls to write a book on opening the sale.
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But there s enough in here about the sale to where you can get it, you can use it, and you can bank it.
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And I think that s most important.
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it s selling is a science and the last chapter in the closers part two is called sales infiltration it s the best thing i ve ever read yeah i read it yeah yeah yeah and uh in the closers part two that sales infiltration there s a whole lot about opening
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uh, the sale and, and keeping it open and infiltrating their defenses, becoming part of their team.
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It s so interesting.
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I, the two books that I had of yours were the first one and number two.
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So I had read that before you chided me and said, you gotta read this 10 times.
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I m like, okay, fine.
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I ll read it 10 times.
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But
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It s a strategy about having your own mindset to get in the mindset of the other person.
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And if you can get that, if you can get them to understand you and believe you and have confidence in you, you re going to win.
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You re totally going to win.
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And if you can t, you re going to walk out without a sale.
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Or send me a proposal, or let me get back to you on that, or let me think about it, or some other bullshit that somebody throws at you.
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And like a fool, you believe that it s solid.
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Absolutely.
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I used the other side of that yesterday, I believe it was.
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A guy was coming to give us a bid on a new roof and some other stuff at our guest house, which is on the property.
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And Gigi was going to go over and meet him, and one of our sons lives in that house.
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And I said, well, you guys go ahead.
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And she said, well, you got to come.
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And I said, no, no, I m leaving you with the right to appeal to a higher authority.
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I m not there.
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So you ve got to run it by me.
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Now, if you were a professional salesperson, he d have made sure both of us were there, period.
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But he didn t.
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So we re now thinking it over.
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It s so I have a sign on my door, Ben.
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It says solicitors welcome to sell.
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I want to see what the hell it is.
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I want to hear your pitch.
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I want to, you know, and I want to throw you out if you suck quickly, very quickly.
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Tell me a little bit about your business.
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I throw him out.
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You know, I don t care who the guy, but if a guy walks in with one of my books and says, Jeffrey,
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I was at the bookstore last week, and I bought a couple of copies of your books.
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I brought them by, and I wondered if you would autograph them.
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That guy gets a half an hour.
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Sure.
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And it s such a simple strategy, you would think that everyone would use it, but they re more interested in their income rather than the outcome.
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Excellent.
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Consider that one stolen.
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Okay.
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I will.
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You mentioned How to Win Friends and Influence People.
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Before I forget it, when I was teaching at San Quentin, where I started my People Builders program for the inmates and staff, somewhere a year or so into the program, the lieutenant in charge of the prison when I was there, the guy assigned to open doors for me.
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Came, he said, I ve got an inmate who wants to meet you.
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And I said, well, tell him to come on down.
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I don t do door to door selling.
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And he said, he said, well, this one can t.
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He said, but I promise you, he s looking at us right now.
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So I look around.
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The only thing right there was the adjustment center, which is a free school for the death row.
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And so
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He didn t play well with others, so he couldn t come on the yard, but he hadn t earned death row yet.
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And I said, well, who is it?
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And he said, Charlie Manson.
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And I said, okay, how do we do it?
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And he said, well, I set it up and you go up and visit him in his cell.
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Well, I wound up doing it three times for about three hours each visit.
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So I spent nine hours knee to knee with Charlie Manson.
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But the first thing that really interested me, I walked in, he had two bunks, the top one he used as a shelf because nobody wanted to sleep with Charlie Manson.
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I can t imagine why.
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And on that shelf, there were some folded up pants and so on and one book.
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And I looked around the cell.
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It was the only book he had, How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.
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And I said, Charlie, what an interesting book selection.
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He said, it s my Bible.
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I couldn t have built the Manson family without it.
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Now, that s not to say there s anything evil in that book, but how to how to work with people and so on is what the book is about.
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And he used that for evil.
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Wow.
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Crazy guy.
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Yes.
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Yes, because you make a choice about which road you travel down.
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And, you know, I made my choice early on based on my family and based on my upbringing, based on my family s ethics and their and their work ethics.
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So did you.
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And so you put yourself in those situations.
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And when you see other people that have gone down the wrong path, you have to question what caused that, not why.
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What caused that?
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Because that s a deeper why.
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He was on the right path at some point in talking to him.
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I discovered he was evil crazy.
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Not the booga booga thing he did for Geraldo Rivera and so on to show off.
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He said that he said people love that.
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Yeah.
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But I m talking about evil crazy.
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That s different.
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And he was a master at that.
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there was some other point I was going to make with Charlie Manson.
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It ll come back to me.
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Okay.
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The people he had in his cult were loyal.
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Oh yeah, absolutely.
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And upper middle class and well-educated by and large.
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Jax Watson is a minister now doing good work within the prison.
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He came from a fine family.
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Oh, I just, thank you, that triggered my mind.
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There s a famous picture of Charlie Manson shaking hands with President Harry Truman.
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He was at the White House as a representative of Boy s Nation.
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So at some point,
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He was, you know, maybe in the right channel.
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But what they didn t catch was he was already crazy.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Something malfunctioned upstairs.
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And to this day, they don t know what the short circuit is.
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As we say in the South, he ain t right in the head.
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Yeah, exactly.
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There s a lot of things they say in the South.
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I m in Charlotte, North Carolina.
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I ve lived here for 35 years.
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Beautiful place.
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It s unbelievable.
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It s very entrepreneurially forward and very business oriented.
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the banking capital of at least the United States, if not the world.
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Yeah.
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Yep.
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Wells Fargo, the cheater bank is here, and Bank of America is here.
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Right.
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Wells Fargo set sales back 100 years on ethics.
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I had a fake credit card.
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I tried to save it.
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They wouldn t let me save it, but it took me six months to get rid of it.
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Someone issued it.
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I guess they had to make their quota or something horrible.
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So ethics plays a pretty big role in sales.
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It s not about closing the sale.
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It s about earning the sale in the end.
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And it s based on how the other person perceives you.
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What do you teach when it comes down to the end when the person s not sure of themselves or not sure of the situation?
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How do you get them to finalize the transaction?
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I have a magic close preceded by 40 minutes of at least of other stuff to get in position.
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I m like a sniper.
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I sit up in the tree without blinking for two days.
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But when you re finally in my sights,
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and I pull, you buy.
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My closing rate with big ticket sales is about 86% and has been for years.
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And the other 14%, generally speaking, it was a condition.
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I didn t qualify them tightly enough.
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They didn t have the money.
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But
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getting in the right position, and once I m in the right position, my magic clothes, I use it 95% of the time, is, Jeffrey, based on what you ve told me, here s what I suggest we do.
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Fill in the blank.
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Fair enough?
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I m a fair enough guy.
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Yeah, I m a fair enough guy.
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But I m also to me at the end of a sale, if I have not convinced the other person that my value is there, right, then I m, I m barking up the wrong tree, I m going to get some kind of an objection.
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So when I get an objection, it s either go away, I don t like you, and I don t believe you.
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I ve had a few of those.
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You haven t proven yourself at a high enough level based on what you re asking me for is money.
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Money s here.
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Proof is here.
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Proof has to go here.
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And then money doesn t matter anymore.
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But fair enough, believe me, I m the biggest fair enough guy on the planet.
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In addition to being a great logical end to a statement, it s hard to say no to.
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Yeah.
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They tend to explain things.
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So if it s not fair enough, they ll tell you why it s not fair enough.
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And that s fine.
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I ve achieved what I was after.
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I want a yes, no or a definite here s what s wrong.
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I don t want to think about it or whatever.
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And in sales infiltration, as you know, having read it, we clear that up up front.
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When I get through the presentation, I m going to ask you to make a decision.
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based on your needs and wants and so on and so.
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But here s, I ll be straight with you, you be straight with me.
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Fair enough?
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Fair enough.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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So here s what I don t want at the end.
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I ve got to check with my brother-in-law who s an accountant in Cleveland because you don t have a brother-in-law.
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He s not an accountant and he doesn t live in Cleveland.
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So just don t do, just say no.
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Right, exactly, exactly.
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And so when we get to the end, he s got to check with fill in the blank.
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I said, I don t know.
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We promised not to do that to each other.
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Yeah.
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And most salespeople are missing two things, balls.
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And if they have those balls and if they have that structure about them, they ll confront the other person about truth.
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All I m asking for is truth.
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I m gonna give you the best I ve got.
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And if you like it, you buy it.
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And if you don t, tell me to go packing.
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In New York City, when I was talking to people, I said, listen,
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I need five minutes.
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If you don t like what I m saying, throw me out.
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Fair enough.
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And again, yeah, that s fair enough.
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And after 20 minutes, I knew I made a sale.
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And I would say, are my five minutes up yet?
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And that way, we both agreed that I ve endeared them to a point where it s likely that I ll buy something.
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Right.
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And as you know, as a master closer yourself and a sales infiltrator, I know when they bought before they know.
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Oh, yeah.
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I feel an atmospheric pressure change.
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in the room or on the phone or wherever it is, and if I still wrote up orders by hand, I would be writing at that point while they re still pretending they haven t said yes yet.
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It s amazing to me, and I have a lot of pre-conversations with people that, you know, they
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I ve only done 2,500 seminars, but I ve never made a sales call to bookworm.
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The people read my stuff, they like me, and they call me.
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And I start the conversation by making them laugh and asking one question of everybody.
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Where did you grow up?
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You asked me that earlier.
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Not where you re from, where did you grow up?
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Because that s a family question.
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And it s an emotional question.
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You re thinking about your siblings, you re okay.
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And so the challenge that you have as a salesperson, and you as a diehard listening to this podcast is what s that first question?
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And if that question isn t something about them, you re in trouble.
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Because salespeople will go, well, have you ever heard of us?
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Yeah, I googled you, you sucked.
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Then what do you say?
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You know, I think it s important for the salesperson to set their ego aside and just ask the other guy questions enough to emotionally engage them and you got a shot at it and then you can close them.
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But it s the opening is just as important as the closing.
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Absolutely.
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More, more important, I think.
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I maintain, I couldn t prove this in court, but I maintain that most sales are made, lost, or heavily influenced in the first 10 to 15 seconds.
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No argument.
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No argument with that at all.
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A cute story you ll enjoy.
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I took a kid out.
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I was writing scripts for the largest pre-need cemetery organization in the country.
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And whenever I do scripts, I go test them.
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I don t just say, this sounds good.
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Try this.
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I go first.
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So somebody asked me, do you mind if this young man rides along with you?
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And I said, no, as long as he understands the rules, bring him in here.
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He came in.
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I said, your job today is to shut up.
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If I ask you a direct question,
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answer yes or no, and shut up.
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I won t ask anything you can t answer yes or no.
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And if the prospect asks you a question, you turn to me and wait for me to answer it.
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You don t say anything.
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So do you understand the rules?
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Yes.
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So we go out, we made five calls, I think, and we got five sales.
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One maybe had to get financing, I don t know, but five out of five was the day.
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And we re riding back to the office.
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And I said, well, did you have a good time?
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He said, well, I did, but I would have learned a whole lot more if all of your sales hadn t been laydowns.
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Oh, my God.
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Oh, my God.
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I said, yeah, I guess that s a problem in learning.
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Yeah, that s a big problem.
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That is crazy.
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But I want to throw something at you that ties in with this whole process.
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I m very big on personal.
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And I was asked to write Knock Your Socks Off Selling with Ron Zemke, the guy that wrote Knock Your Socks Off Service.
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So I flew to Minneapolis to meet the guy to see who he was and is this the right thing for me.
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And I m an observer.
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And I noticed on his wall that he had a couple of Warner Brothers sales.
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from the Bugs Bunny cartoons.
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And I said, you know, I m a big Chuck Jones fan.
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And I see you have stuff here.
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What is it?
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What does it mean to you?
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What does it mean to you?
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Got it?
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Right.
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And he leaves the room and he comes back with this.
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And he said, You have a copy of this book?
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And I said, No, I don t.
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He said, Well, I happen to have an autographed copy.
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And I have two of them.
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And I wondered if you d like one.
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Wow.
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Now, it has nothing to do with why I was there at all.
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But at that point, I bought.
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I didn t give a shit what he did next.
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He could have taken his clothes off and hopped around the room.
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I got a Chuck Jones book that s signed.
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I later met Chuck Jones, befriended Chuck Jones as a result of that story.
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I want you to think about what happens in a sale that s outside the sale, because oftentimes that is the solidifier of the sale.
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And your stories are phenomenal because they re all about the value of what s going on or the circumstance of what s being said.
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And Dyer, you need to pay attention to this.
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This is as good a sales interview as we can, as we could ever hope for.
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And we re going to do more of them if you don t mind, Ben.
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Love to.
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Yeah, me too.
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Have you ever met Chuck Jones?
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No, I shouldn t say that because I ve met a lot of people.
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Every time I say I haven t met somebody, they say, yeah, in Dallas on,
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Yeah, you know how that goes.
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But we re not buddies.
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Well, wasn t Holiday Magic Zig Ziglar also?
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Yeah, Zig was one of our top people.
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Zig is who won the Rolls Royce when I won presidency of the company.
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Oh, cool.
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I was friends with him as we were both in the same thing.
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And he was in the National Speakers Association.
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And for some reason, he
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He loved Jews, and he was always a very religious guy, very, very religious guy.
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But we would talk about the Old Testament and the New Testament as though it were intellectual dialogue from both parties that didn t have as much to say about it as they could.
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And I would go to his Sunday school classes at the Baptist Church in Dallas, where he had a class called the Encouragers.
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And every Sunday morning, he gave a different speech, as opposed to a Zig Ziglar speech that you saw at a seminar, it s the same speech every time.
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Word for word.
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Oh, totally.
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I wasn t born in Dallas, but I got there as fast as I could.
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OK, but I sit in the front row because we know each other.
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He would always say, and you can never get to heaven until you accept Jesus Christ as your lord.
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And then he would look right at me.
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You poor Jew.
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I know you re not going to make the trip, but he had he had.
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Well, I think we re OK.
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But he had, I went to that class a half a dozen times and every time he said the same thing, every time, looked right at me.
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But they were phenomenal people.
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There was three or four hundred people in a Sunday school class taught by Zig Ziglar for free to show up at the church on Sunday.
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And if I was in Dallas on a Sunday, I never missed.
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I mean, just never.
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It was like a pilgrimage to watch him give an alternative speech.
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I don t know many people that you know that you can tell the date, year and time you met them.
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But in my case, Wednesday, September 15th, 1965, at noon, I walked into an office where I d answered one ad.
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If you know anything about marketing plans, want to make more money, dial this number, dial the number.
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Walked in and I said to the receptionist, hi, my name s Ben Gay, and I m here for a noon appointment with Bill Dempsey.
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And she said, yes, we ve been expecting you.
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And from behind me, I hear in this Southern accent, Ben Gay.
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And I turned around and I said, you know, by then I was old enough to know the Ben Gay joke.
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So I m sorry, I didn t mean to rub it in.
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How long have you been gay?
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Yeah, etc, etc.
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I m sure.
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Yeah.
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So I turned around, reached out my hand.
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I said, Hi, I m Ben Gay.
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What s your name?
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He said, I m Zig Ziglar.
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And I said, with a name like Zig Ziglar, you re laughing at Ben Gay?
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Well, it turned out Zig had answered the same ad.
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Oh, wow.
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It was there.
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So he and I joined Holiday Magic Cosmetics together, along with my business partner, Jimmy Rucker, the greatest salesman I ever personally worked with in the same room.
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And we were buddies to the day he died.
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Hillary something.
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Hillary something Ziegler.
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Hillary, you know his real name?
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No.
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I probably heard it.
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Yeah, I forget it as well.
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But I think once you pass 60, you re allowed to forget shit.
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That s comforting.
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Yeah.
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So Die Hard and we call our listeners to the podcast Die Hards.
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These are all people that want to make more sales.
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And they think that there s a new strategy for making sales.
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And actually the best, when I read a book on sales, I try to read something a hundred years old, because it s the same.
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And if you don t understand that, you don t understand life in the big city.
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You re looking for something that s out there that s really not there.
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And if you have a little bit of advice for salespeople, now would be your best time to give it.
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Well, I was asked one day in the seminar,
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what were the three things, working with Dr. Hill, I was his last protege, Dr. Napoleon Hill, what were the three things I learned?
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Well, I have 500 things I ve learned and to be put on the spot with name three, I thought, oh, Lord, don t fail me now.
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And let s come up with three.
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And I heard myself saying, integrity in all things.
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That s one of the things he taught me.
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Focus on whatever s in front of you at the time, the prospect, the project, the whatever, focus.
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and take action.
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Those may not sound like selling tips, but they are.
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Integrity in all things, focus, because I was the shiny object bird.
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If something was going on and then something happens over here, I turn my head and I m off on that.
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And then action in all things.
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One day, Dr. Hill was attending a meeting.
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Yeah.
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Stractor, number one.
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Absolutely.
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I say when we sit down at dinner, I say, assuming I m picking up the tab as usual, turn off your phones.
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And then if the phone rings, I say, ma am, separate check for him or her.
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It s always a him.
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Exactly.
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Always a him.
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Correct.
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Women follow instructions, men never do.
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But Dr. Hill was in this meeting and it suddenly dawned on him, you know, he wasn t out there all the time.
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He d come out a couple times a month or once a month.
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And he realized he was sitting in a meeting he d been in several times before plotting and planning a new men s cosmetic line.
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And so we
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wrapped up the meeting and agreed to meet next Thursday or whatever.
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And when they all left, that was one of Dr. Hill s rules.
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He never criticized or questioned me in front of other people.
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It was always private.
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When the door clicked, which I used to hate that door, because if it went click, my peripheral vision, I d look to his chair to see if he looked up, because if he looked up, he was going to tell me something.
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But he said, Ben, what are you going to know next Thursday that you don t know now about bringing out this
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product line.
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And I thought for a second and I said, well, I don t know.
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He said, you re dithering, take action.
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So I called everybody back and I said, does anybody need, you know, the legal people, the production people, the art people?
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So does anyone need any information to do your section of the project that needs something you don t have now?
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No, no.
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I probably could have asked that question a month before it had been no.
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I said, well, let s go, let s do it.
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And several people, I could almost hear them go,
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Finally.
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Wow.
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And, you know, everybody s always looking for the deep secret in trying to find be clever and find my copy of Think and Grow Rich.
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Oh, it s buried under an electronic device.
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But this is my signed copy from 75 years ago, I think it is.
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And he said to me, people are always looking for the deep secret in Think and Grow Rich.
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Have you found it? 
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And I said, well, I found lots of things, but tell me.
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He said, action.
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He said, first of all, the book is a sales training manual.
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That s what it was written for.
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Yeah.
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Not a Bible, not the Koran, a sales training manual.
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And the deep secret buried within it, and I read somewhere today, it said 75 times, is action.
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So, to our sales friends among us, that prospect list you ve been meaning to call, call them today.
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Call five of them today.
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That sales call you ve been dreading making, make it today or set it up today.
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Take action.
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Nothing happens, as Elmer Wheeler once said, nothing happens until somebody sells something.
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That s correct.
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And I would tell you also,
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Elmer Wheeler also said, sell the sizzle, not the steak.
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We are brothers in old people s wisdom.
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And I m very appreciative of our time today.
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Well, thank you.
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Vice versa.
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It s an honor to be with you.
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And Diehards, I want you to make sure that you at least buy the closers so that you ll go out and buy the rest of them.
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Once you read one, once you read one, just go on eBay, go on Book Finder, go to a bookstore that, yeah, stores, cool.
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Stores.ebay.com forward slash runzonebooks, R-O-N-Z-O-N-E books.
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And they offer special pricing and free shipping.
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Cool.
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So there you go, you guys.
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And we re gonna thank Ben for being here today and go out and sell something, even if your ass falls off.
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Thanks for listening to the show.
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Don t forget to like, share.
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Yeah, share with both your friends.
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And subscribe to the podcast.
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And remember, we have a free 22-day sales challenge.
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Just go to github.com slash sales challenge to start you on your way.