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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast, podcast history.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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Brian Neal over here.
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Brian Neal, you were kind of a smart aleck to me.
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I was.
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When you say that, I don t mean it.
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I think I m being funny.
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I wasn t being smart alecky.
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I just thought it was funny.
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You have to give the context now, so those who don t follow Bill on X. Well, I was watching a football game, of which Brian is a supreme expert on.
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And there was a two-point conversion
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by the Colts who I was my favorite team and and it was intercepted and run all the way back American football obviously run all the way back to the end zone by the by their opposition Tennessee Titans and I thought that was a six I thought that was a touchdown and but they only added two points to the score
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And so I tweeted and said, I ve been watching football for 50 some years.
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And I had no idea.
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It doesn t happen that often.
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But I had no idea that if you run a touchdown back from a two-point conversion, you only get two points.
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And so I tweeted that.
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And Brian comes back with, hey, I got you, brother.
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I got you, brother.
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I m here for you, right?
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You know who I am?
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Not who I am.
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I m just here.
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You re my friend.
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I m a supporter.
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I know the rules.
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If there s anything else, the obscurity things are there.
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And nobody knows that.
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Not one person knows that.
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And then you said you didn t ask.
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Well, exactly.
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You should have asked.
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Exactly.
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Oh, no, that was not as I was typing that there was no part of me as being smart.
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It was like being like supportive, like you can come direct to the source.
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I won t always know the answer, but I ll try.
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That was funny.
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That was a.
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very obscure rule that most people don t know.
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And then I just added a little knowledge to the potential for the defense on a two point try conversion to score a one point safety.
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That means that the offense would be responsible for the ball being back in their own end zone and the ball becomes dead there.
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So it d be a really weird thing.
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But if they,
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fumbled it, and it went all the way down 92 yards to the other end and went out the back of the end zone.
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The offense is responsible for it being there.
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It s dead in the end zone.
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That means it s a safety, and that means the defense gets one point, not two points.
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How about it?
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OK, it s a one point safety because it was a... Yep, safety.
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One point safety, two point touchdown.
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Wow.
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All right.
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Welcome to Rule Talk.
That s right.
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All of our European listeners are done.
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They ve already skipped this episode, whatever.
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So switching gears.
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By the way, you know what this is, Bill?
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It s a birthday episode.
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It s my birthday today.
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Yeah, that s right.
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Yeah, that s right.
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Happy birthday.
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Happy birthday.
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I love birthdays.
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You know this, people listening for a while know this.
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Some people get squirrely when their birthday, when they get older.
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I don t.
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I love it.
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Oh, it s great.
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I mean, great.
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You re still here kicking, experiencing life ups and downs, goods and bads, right?
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The thing I like about it is we celebrate something that we had absolutely nothing to do with.
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That s true.
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Isn t that the truth?
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Nothing.
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This is sidebar is I ve, uh, so my kid got, uh, I don t think I told you this.
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Um, my son got, um, made all state football.
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Oh, cool.
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Really great.
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Really great.
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You know, cathedral, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Cause great kids, great leader, great football player, blah, blah, blah.
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It s really, really happy for him.
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I think it s interesting when you tell, I don t, we don t like blast that out, but I just blasted out the podcast episode, but here s the point people say to me,
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Congratulations.
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And I m like, I didn t do anything.
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I played football in the 80s.
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I wasn t close to Allstate.
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I didn t do anything to do with this.
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This is all Billy Neal doing this.
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Nothing to do with me.
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Congratulate him.
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Am I proud?
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Yes.
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Am I happy for him?
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Yes.
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You kept him alive during those few months.
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That s worth something.
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But I didn t do that either.
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That s the thing.
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That s cool.
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That s very cool.
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That s really, that s, I mean, that is something as a parent, super proud and pleased with.
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Cause there is a certain amount, I mean, there s a lot of discipline and dedication that goes into that.
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And I m sure he watches you and has watched you.
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Not, it s not what you say.
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It s what we do as parents watch.
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Yep.
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I m sure there s a.
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But it s not like you sat down and said, OK, I m going to teach.
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Listen to me.
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I m going to teach you exactly how to be all state.
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Well, that s the goal.
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Yeah.
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We started talking about that when he was 18 months old.
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So we just started.
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Yeah.
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I put a little.
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Yeah.
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Put the headphones on him and put a subliminal tape that says you are all state.
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You are all state.
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Had him watch Brian Bosworth and some of these other all American people.
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Not true.
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All right.
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OK.
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Topic.
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Let s dig into it.
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Ready?
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into the year two weeks left until Christmas and then a week in between it s kind of a wash week so we re pretty much done right and.
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A lot of us get you know you finish you want to finish strong, but you also do some reflections good reflection time holiday musics on.
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world gets a little quiet, you know, towards the Christmas break.
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And even if you don t celebrate Christmas, you still experience that.
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So we re thinking, um, Bill and I were talking, um, over the course of the last four strategic prep calls for this episode, what, what did we learn in 2023?
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Or what did we change in 2023?
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Or what did we learn that caused us to change our mentality or our energy or something about our business that we re going to implement into 2024?
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And we re just going to kick our own around.
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And then you, as the listeners, you can go do this yourself.
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You can listen to ours.
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Go, oh, that s really good.
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I ll take that one, too.
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And you ll probably do your own, right?
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I think you ll do your own, too.
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Yeah, I like that.
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And I agree that this is a good time of year to reflect, too.
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I don t know if you do.
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You don t reflect back, do you?
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I think you just reflect.
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What a great question.
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Do you reflect back?
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I say that.
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Let s reflect back.
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Well, let s reflect forward.
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Let s try that.
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OK.
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That s fun.
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But I do think it s a good time to, in some ways, congratulate yourself and be pleased.
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Pride comes before the fall.
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But I think in this case, we should be proud of what we accomplished, whatever that is.
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And it doesn t have to be monetary.
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It could be relationships.
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It can be skills that we grew.
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It could be anything.
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But I do think it s a good time to do that.
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I don t think we spent enough time
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being pleased with our accomplishments and still wanting more or different for next year.
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So I think this topic is really good.
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So do you want to start?
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Or do you want me to?
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I will.
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I do want to know who the quote, you just said a quote, and I want to know the column, what was it?
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The pride cometh before the fall.
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It s a biblical.
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The pride cometh before the fall?
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I ve never heard that one.
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Those people who get too proud, and we ve all seen it.
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People get a little bit too big for their, you know.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And then next thing.
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And we ve all seen it.
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We ve seen it with clients.
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And it gets big.
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And they buy the private plane.
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And then next thing you know, the mortgage market falls out.
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I mean, how many stories?
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We don t need to know a lot of stories about that.
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But the Bible says, pride cometh before the fall, in so many words.
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But I think we can be pleased.
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We can be proud of our accomplishments without being over the top.
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Yeah, for sure.
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Yeah.
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So I ll take a, I ll take a go first of all.
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Um, and this, uh, has been occurring and this past year more than anything, it has really kind of solidified.
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It s just a, um, normal mantra for me as a person and a business owner and as a husband and parent and everything else.
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Um, everything s going to be okay.
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Oh, everything s going to be okay.
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And there s so much, and I don t know if it changes over time, but you can get so angsty in your life, in your sales life, in your personal life.
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Your sales results are down, and you get so much angst.
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And that angst to me is, I m learning just such a futile energy to feel, and to hang on to, and to cling to, and endorse.
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Everything s going to be OK.
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It just is.
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And I think by...
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It s taking me a long time to get there.
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Now, carrying into 2024, that becomes the overriding thought in all things, that everything s going to be OK.
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It doesn t matter what happens.
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You lose your four biggest top accounts.
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Your income goes down by 30% because the commission plan changed.
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It s going to be OK.
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It s going to be OK.
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I love that.
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My first one.
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I love that.
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I don t know that you need it.
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Because we give off the vibe of it s not going to be okay.
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That s not helpful for our families or our kids and our clients.
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And so I love that when I had a similar one, which is don t worry, which I don t worry, be happy.
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Um, yeah.
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So, okay.
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Do you have something more exciting?
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No, that was it on the first one.
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Yeah, that s my first one.
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I was going to do a little Bobby McFerrin for you there, but yeah, I heard that.
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Um, mine probably is more about finding the purpose in the work instead of the Instead of the um
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money in the work.
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And I ve always, I ve always dabbled in purpose.
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But at the, if you wake me up in the middle of the night and say, what s your goal for this year, I would not have a purpose oriented goal, I would have a financial oriented goal.
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Now, they can go together, I don t think there s anything wrong with that.
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But I think as, as things get more weird, not just in the economy, but also, you know, our businesses, we re trying to do a lot of things we re figuring out as
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And I can get out of that mode and get into money mode.
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And that s not as inspiring as purpose to me.
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It may not be for our listeners.
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You may be all about money.
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You could care less about purpose.
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But I do think purpose drives us to do things that are meaningful to us.
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And I think that s one of the things that we need to do.
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I think that s one of the things that we need to do.
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So that we get to the point where we say, you know what?
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I m going to try this.
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And if it doesn t work, it s going to be OK.
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Yeah.
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That s great.
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We re combining these.
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I like this.
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Yeah.
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Purpose is kind of the fuel that allows you to take the risk and to try new things.
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And so my goal, I think I ve been OK purpose-driven wise.
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But I think there s another level, another notch.
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Love that.
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And it s so much more rewarding, isn t it, when you have that?
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I think it is.
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Feels like it is.
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I think it is.
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You know, we talked here in our personal business planning session last week about inputs.
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And we have outputs we want.
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We want to make a certain amount of money.
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We want to have a certain number of customers.
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But really, the game is an input game.
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What do I need to do on a daily, weekly, monthly basis to make that happen?
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What do I need to summon?
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Or what do I need to access?
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And to me, purpose is at the heart of all those things.
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Because if you don t have that right, then it s just going to be,
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you re just going to be winging it.
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So I think purpose can find its way into a lot of these different things this time of year.
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That s great.
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I m going to go on my next one.
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Man, I ve got two.
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I don t know if I have time to say both of them.
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I ll try to say, I want to say both of them.
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Okay.
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I ll do the first one.
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It s kind of cliche, but it s more and more prevalent to me.
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Process makes perfect.
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Process makes perfect.
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And then I m going to add some to it.
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Perfect process makes perfect.
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Um, we know sales is a process.
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Business is a process.
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Systems, ops, finance can all be process oriented.
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Flying planes is a process.
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Building buildings, a process.
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And,
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It now more than ever, I think perfect process makes perfect for a sales organization, a salesperson.
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And, and I m talking about down to the step zero, step one, step two, step three, step stuff and being disciplined to that.
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And if you re listening to this, you probably heard Bill and I talk about it.
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I would, I d go chips all in on process next year.
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for sure.
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So give me an example of that.
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Let s say that I m a sales professional and I m calling on whatever accounting firms.
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Yeah.
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And I m, let s say that I m getting leads.
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I m not actually cold calling.
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My website is working and there s referrals and there are things coming in.
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What should I be thinking about in terms of process?
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Because the old way to think about process is, well, you go and you ask them a bunch of questions, and you get discovery, and the next step is this, and the next step, and then you close them.
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And that is a process.
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But is there any advanced version of that that you re thinking?
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I don t know if it s advanced.
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I m thinking about a way from sales process to a matchmaking sort of buying process where everything is named and labeled and timed.
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And so everyone listening should have a four step or four stage process that takes 30 to 45 business days that starts on a date, ends on a date with four milestones in between.
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And here s the agenda for each of the milestones sort of stuff.
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And it sounds tedious at first, but once you draw it all out and it s the thing where we miss this though, to me is the, the, how good of an experience that is for the buyer.
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Yeah.
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It is so much better for them.
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If we are buttoned up with the process versus us on.
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So what do you want to do next?
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What would you like me to send some stuff over and give you a call next week that I know none of our listeners would do that.
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But even if you do like a clear future date and you put it on the calendar, you need to have it all baked out.
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These are the things that happen.
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Well, that s my number two as well, a version of that.
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And that is to really, I think that you and I, because you and I are not necessarily process people from the word go, right?
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Is that fair?
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I mean, we re not engineers by trade, but we do understand how important the process is to going from suspect to prospect to client.
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Yes.
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Yep.
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I m convinced that there are some things we can do in the process, maybe in between calls, like you were talking about, that would help so that when we got to the call, like here s an example.
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I was at a
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meeting the other night in a little town we live in, Carmel.
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And there was a celebration dinner for, I was on this guy s campaign committee, Jeff Worrell.
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And he had a little dinner for the people on the committee.
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To be honest with you, I didn t do much.
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But it was a free dinner.
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And so he s really nice.
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He s an awesome guy.
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And there was 12, 14 of us there.
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And as I was leaving, there was a guy at the end.
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And he said, hey.
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He said, you re in sales coaching training business.
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He goes, yeah.
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I said, yeah.
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He said, I might be looking for something next year.
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He s with, and he told me the company, it s a large company, and he s, I don t know if he s a decision maker.
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And so I said, yeah.
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I said, let s connect maybe over some time in the next couple of weeks.
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And I thought at that time, well, that s a terrible answer, let s connect, because now,
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What I should have said and what I should have done, and I don t have this yet, I should have created a video for people like him who are at the very top of the funnel, don t even know if they want it, don t know if I m the right guy, I may or may not be.
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There needs to be something there where I email him and say, hey, John,
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Let s talk.
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Here s my calendar.
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But in the meantime, here s a quick video on some of the things that we do and why we do them this way.
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And if you still have interest after that, we can talk.
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And if you don t, that s fine.
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That way, I m not spending any time in that meeting telling about who we are, telling about what we do, why we do it, what s the content like.
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All that s been done.
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And so that, to me, part of that process question is, what can we do to help us so that in the process when we re conducting ourselves face-to-face, it s easier?
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Yes, yes, yes.
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It makes it easier for everybody.
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Then you don t have to think about your answer.
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Anybody says anything like that, you go, more than happy to.
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So we ve got actually a pretty tight process that we follow.
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Step one, I do a little video for people like you, just to watch, get you going.
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So I will send that to you now, or I ll send it to you tomorrow.
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And then that will cue, there ll be a link to my calendar when you schedule step two.
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It s like, you don t have to think for a moment.
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And he s like, shit, OK.
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Yeah.
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That s good.
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And maybe the back end of the process is a little bit more customized depending upon what they want.
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But that front end is so important because it sets the stage for the rest of it.
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And I don t think you need to say, well, step one through step seven, and this is three days apart.
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But it s the first step.
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What s the first step?
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Who is this dude, Bill Cassidy?
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Do I even want to talk to him on the phone?
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Totally.
100%.
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What does he stand for?
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What is he all about?
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Yes.
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I m going to do that.
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That s great.
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I mean, it s amazing that we haven t done that yet.
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Yeah.
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We have done it for certain products that we offer.
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Yeah.
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But the corporate, I think, is a great way to do that.
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So that s not only a reflection on the miss, but it s also a strategy to go forward next year.
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Yes.
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Yep.
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My last one, I want to roll in here.
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And this is where my brain is going real heavy on my energy this year.
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There are so much still in this day and age, sales trickery that goes on.
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Everyone trying to write a tagline, an email.
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Here s an email you can send that gets a 38% response rate.
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Here s a thing you can do in the sales call to make them say yes, is I want to throw all that crap out the door.
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Love it.
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And ask ourselves and check everything you think, everything you do and everything you say,
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Check it with the filter of, is this valuable and helpful to the person I m dealing with on the other side of the desk?
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And if it s not, don t do it or say it.
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And come clean with it.
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You know what I mean?
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Like if I said, hey, here s something to do.
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Do this, and then they ll do that.
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Next time you talk to them, tell them you re doing that.
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Like, hey, I m going to say something to you now that s going to get you to say yes.
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Tell them right before, because that s what you re doing.
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Be authentic and real about it.
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And let s get into the buyer s process and the buyer s method, everything about it for them.
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So I m real heavy on that right now.
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I like that.
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And I was listening to, I m not even going to say who it is.
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He s very popular in the online circles right now.
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He just wrote a book.
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And he was talking about, I mean, he s a marketer, but he was talking about the sales process.
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And he kept referring to the tie down.
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Right.
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And that s exactly what you re talking about is if I have to relate to, if I have to say something that is intended to tie somebody down, that is, that s the wrong, it s just the wrong tactic.
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It s just like, really?
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I mean, he s doing all this great stuff in the front end.
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And now I ve got to resort to a tight, some kind of manipulative move to get people to do
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something, it s like, oh, God, come on.
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But that s what a lot of sales trainers are teaching.
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I know.
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It s out there everywhere, even.
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I know.
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Yeah.
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This was like, I ve been thinking about this.
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And then someone else, very popular in our space, that we both know and like and respect and everything else, has a video out there right now.
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And I m like, no, this is like Jedi mind trick stuff.
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You re trying to manipulate and coerce people.
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Don t try to control people.
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Or if you re going to do that to say, hey, what I m about to say isn t, it s an attempt to try to control you emotionally.
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Just say that and then say it.
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I mean, it s like, yeah, just don t do that.
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Just be real and authentic.
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And so we re working on a prop.
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We re collaborating on something together to get to an answer that may or may not work.
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It doesn t matter or it will.
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And if it does go for, if it doesn t get out of the way,
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That s pretty advanced thinking, though, Brian.
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I mean, we talk, well, no, it is.
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We talk about it on the podcast.
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That s why our podcast listeners, if you re doing and executing some of the things we say, that s why you re going to be 100x better than anybody else, because everybody else is using some of those old tactics.
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I like that.
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My last one, I ll just do it really quickly here, because to me, it s an episode, maybe the first of next year, that I want to run past you at some point.
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And that is the idea of,
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self-image and how our self-image relates to our success.
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And so a guy like you or I come along and we say, hey, you need to shoot a YouTube video.
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You need to do this, need to do that.
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You need to do the upfront agreement.
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You need to do all the things that we ve talked about for 1,600 episodes, but you don t do them.
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And you don t do them because I m convinced because the outcome of that might expand your self image beyond the comfort zone.
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So we say to people.
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You know, maybe you should have a podcast.
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And people say, oh, yeah, you know what?
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I could.
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I could send it to my dental hygienist or whatever.
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And then they don t do it.
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And I m convinced the reason they don t do it is not because they don t know how to do it, because that s a Google, you know, Google, podcast.
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I m convinced it s more about, well, what if this works?
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Easy to say, oh, if it works, more money comes in.
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That s exactly what I want.
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But not so fast there, cowboy, because if your self-image says you re a $200,000-a-year person and we give you something that s going to get you to five, it s easy then to say, no, it s not me.
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That s so interesting.
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And so I d like to go a little deeper into that.
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I call it the self-image dilemma.
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And it s that idea of we want more.
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We want more.
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Everybody wants more in their life.
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But does our self-image allow us to harvest that more?
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Yeah.
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And I m convinced, many times, it doesn t.
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And the proof of that, and you see it a lot of times, is you ll tell 10 people in a group the same thing.
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Two will take it and run with it.
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Yes.
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All the time.
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It s one of their business, and the other eight will do nothing.
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Always.
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That s so great.
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Same instruction.
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Same instruction.
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You know what s wild about that?
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What?
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As soon as you were talking about that, I love this idea.
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I started to think of people, clients of mine.
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I think of a talk that I gave them.
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Everyone nods, don t they?
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Oh, yeah.
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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I talked, I gave this talk to this group.
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I said the same, I said, every one of you in this room should have a podcast.
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I said, I got the, I got the Amazon list for the equipment to buy, right?
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Pay a high school kid Doritos and a two liter of diet Mountain Dew and he ll edit it for you.
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True.
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Isn t it?
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I mean, it s just, it s so easy.
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They ll put it on their resume.
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I got to do that.
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Yeah.
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We ve been talking about that.
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Got to do that.
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Man.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I m just thinking of clients and people.
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And it s so interesting.
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Well, never gone that deep on it.
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It s really good.
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You know, you know, the other thing is that you, you and I have people in our midst, our client base.
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Yeah.
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We say, you re better than this.
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And I can see how good you can be.
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I ve got a client right now.
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I m not going to mention names, but he s really smooth.
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When he talks, he s just really good.
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And all the people around him are doing LinkedIn videos and YouTube.
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One guy s got his own YouTube channel, and he hasn t done anything on it.
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And I m convinced that it has nothing to do with he doesn t know how to work the camera.
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It s a lot deeper than that.
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So we might want to get into that next year.
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Awesome.
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That s a great opening.
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Maybe a series even.
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So we have a surprise for you next week, our own.
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This is, we ll release on December 18th, and it s a little treat that we re going, I m going to share.
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Everybody has to listen.
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This is one of those, like, you can t not hear it episodes.
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So next week, that ll be the 18th week before we break for the holidays.
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That s it.
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Good job.
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Bye.