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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill shares a personal Humpty Dumpty moment.
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Bill also sauces it up with some R-rated material mid-episode.
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And we take a friend s email who s being sold to, I ll warn you it s not so hot, and determine what can we learn from a bad sales email.
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Welcome, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest-running sales training podcast, podcast history.
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My name s Brian Neal.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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And we are coming to you kind of live, live today.
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We re recording in Serper Studios.
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You probably can t even tell.
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You can t.
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Bill, don t let smidge under the weather.
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We re going to be responsible as we continue through the terrifying pandemic.
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I m trying to be socially responsible.
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It s hard for me.
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It s really hard for me.
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I m with you.
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You take an EQ ever?
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EQ measures social responsibility.
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Does it?
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No.
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I would fail at that.
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I m not.
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Mine s low.
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I don t even like people, basically.
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You re one of the few people that I like.
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I m realizing that that s an okay trait to have, actually.
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Sometimes it s a gift, right?
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It s less pressure if you just keep to yourself.
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So I know you are in a side hustle that is very physical and a lot of injuries, and not you, although I m sure that players get injured a lot.
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I have an injury, Brian.
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Oh no, do you really?
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Yeah.
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I was, Monday of last week, I got out of my car, was heading into a retail location, and had my laptop with me in my right hand, and I hit a patch of ice.
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Oh God.
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And I went down.
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Oh God.
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And I tried to catch myself with my left arm, which is a terrible idea, and I yanked up my shoulder.
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I probably have to have rotator cuff.
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Do you really?
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Yeah, I probably do.
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But anyway, I don t know yet.
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I m seeing a doctor this week.
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OK.
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But the question is the whole, how do you fall?
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And if you know you re going to fall, sometimes you can feel it coming.
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You trip on something.
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And you have an extra half a second to think, OK, I m going to roll here.
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When you slip on ice, you don t have any time to roll.
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So I got home.
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My wife says, well, why didn t you roll?
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So why don t you roll?
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Of course.
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Well, let s practice your shoulder.
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I feel so bad for you.
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Why didn t you roll?
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Stop.
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We need to get t-shirts printed and say, why didn t you roll Jane?
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See, I m not kidding.
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That would be a great t-shirt.
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Actually.
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It could be a great answer to everything, right?
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And anything you scrub, why didn t you blank?
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Why didn t you roll?
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That s so funny.
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It s true.
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And I will say, um,
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You re 6 5 ?
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Mm-hmm.
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6 5 .
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Yeah.
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It was an ugly sight, I m sure.
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When taller people fall, there s just more stuff that can just go down harder.
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I believe if you re 5 2 , or 4 11 , you fall, you re kind of closer to the ground.
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Yeah, that s right.
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You re 6 5 , and you ve got long arms.
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It s like, man.
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I m sorry, man.
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That sucks.
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Oh, it does.
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But I don t get a bit worse.
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Can you move?
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Can you navigate up?
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Uh, no, I can t do anything.
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I can t.
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I can try and try.
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Okay.
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That hurts.
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Let me go a little further.
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Let me go a little further.
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I just love when people like, well, no, no, no.
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Just like, can you just put, do it?
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Just lift up here.
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Just do that.
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Like when you re really hurt.
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Like I can t or like I m a,
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like I m colorblind on certain colors.
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I m certain colors, I m colorblind.
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I just can t.
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And whenever you tell people that, here s what they do.
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What color is this?
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And they hold something up.
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And then you say, well, I think it s blue.
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What, that s not blue, that s green.
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So then they make fun of you.
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I just told you I m colorblind.
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Like you re not, are you really colorblind?
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Like how colorblind are you?
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Yeah, right.
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But they always test it.
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It s always, they pull out a yellow card.
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What color is this?
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Well, all right.
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Okay, so topic today, we re going to take this isn t necessarily from the listener mailbag.
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This is actually from an old client colleague friend of ours, who sent us both what I thought was very thoughtful message on LinkedIn.
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I just, I think it s thoughtful when people think of you.
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And he opened up his message when he said, I immediately thought of you two when engaged in the following email exchange.
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And so to set this up for you, what we re gonna talk about today is how are your, especially your email messages and your email marketing and prospecting, how are they being received on the other end?
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And what sort of vibe do we give somebody sometimes without even knowing it?
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And Bill thought of a really good series.
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You wanna tell them about the series that we re gonna do?
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I think it s fun.
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Yeah, because we have, I don t know, 10, 15, 20,000 listeners, and you all get emails from people wanting to see you or pitching you on something, or you get direct messaging on LinkedIn or some of the platforms.
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We d like to see them.
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We d like to see, and not in an effort to belittle or make fun of, although there may be a little bit of that.
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More just so how could this person have phrased this better?
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How could this person have framed it?
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And so we re I don t know what we re going to call it But if you have an email that you get and it s a train wreck It really is a bad email send it to us at listener and advanced selling podcast.
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Here s our Commitment we will not use your name nor the person who sent it because we don t want to throw people under the bus too bad
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But we will analyze it.
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So if you have something that just comes to you, listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com, send it over to us, and we ll, maybe once a month, we ll have a little rally around those.
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That would be fun.
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And I think, so again, if you re getting prospected or you re getting a sales email,
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We re just trying to take a little pulse of what s in the market.
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Because as we do that, we all get better.
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You get better.
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Our listeners get better.
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Bill and I get better as coaches and salespeople ourselves.
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Because we re trying to take pulse here.
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What we re not trying to necessarily do is just pile on and diss somebody.
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That s easy to do.
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That s kind of weak.
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What we re looking to do is to learn from this and saying, OK, could we have said this a different way?
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Or what can we take away things to do not to do that sort of stuff?
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So to set this up, this is a friend of ours who is in the,
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let s say he s in the construction world, I m trying to keep it generic to protect him, and he s got a pretty high job, he s got a big job, and he s being called on by someone via email.
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So he sent us this email, and I m gonna take out the technical stuff, just give you the gist of it.
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The opening says, this guy s name, so let s say it s Brian.
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It s not his name.
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Brian.
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The first sentence says, this is straight from this salesperson.
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I ve been chasing your business for three years now.
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I ve been, that s the first sentence.
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I ve been chasing your business for three years now.
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We re saving you this much money.
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It will go to this other competitor, but I guarantee thousands of dollars of savings.
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I guarantee thousands of dollars of savings.
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If I can just make one final proposal, that s what I just want to make one final and get the pricing.
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If there s no difference, then there s nothing more than I can do.
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How does that sound?
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Hmm.
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So Dan, obviously did he know him?
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Yeah.
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Um, I think, I don t know.
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He knows the company.
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I don t know if he knows the person.
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So this person obviously didn t like the way that sounded.
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So when he closed with, how does that sound?
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Say, well, it sounds awful.
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Coach me a little bit on that.
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Coach me.
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So let s just break.
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Now, Dan, Dan, I said I wasn t going to use his name.
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Now I m using his name.
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Maybe Travis can beat out his name.
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First name is fine.
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That s fine.
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So a couple things, this is interesting.
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And I love your, maybe we can just riff on these a little bit.
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So, and again, we re not trying to like overly bash the thing, but we re saying, okay, how could we have said something different?
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First sentence says, I ve been chasing your business for three years now.
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Chasing.
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Does anyone like to be chased?
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That s the first thing.
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That s the first sentence.
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It wasn t, hey, what s happening?
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Hope you re off to a good 2022.
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I ve been chasing your business for three years now.
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Okay.
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Opening.
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Okay.
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What do you think about that?
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Uh, yeah, I think it s awful.
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But I do.
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I m trying to stay, you know, I think it is awful and I m trying to find a different way.
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So I like the idea of framing up what we re doing.
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We re in this process.
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And so, hey, we ve been in a process to try to determine whether or not we can be helpful to you and vice versa, whether we can be a fit.
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It s been a while since we ve been doing that.
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In fact, I think it s been to the tune of three years.
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Now, I want to be consistent with that.
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At the same time, it may be a time where there s just no way for us to get together.
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So we re kind of coming to the end of the road there.
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There s a different, that s a different way to say that.
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You know what I mean?
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Like I m gonna take one final run at this after a three year, you know, courting process.
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And then let s, then I m gonna get in or out of the boat.
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It s better for both of us to do that.
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I like that sheer honesty.
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Now there is a little bit of honesty and I ve been chasing it for three years, but that comes with a little bit of desperation too.
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But what your approach was, was sheer honesty.
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Look, you know,
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We ve been going back and forth on this.
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I m gonna take one more shot.
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I fully understand this may not be it or may not be good enough, but I d like to give one more shot at this because we re doing some things that are helping people, whatever.
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I like that honesty.
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I think that would be more, I would be more compelled to get back with somebody versus I ve been chasing you.
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And to me, you listeners, you hear Bill and I just hammer, hammer the idea of intention.
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And you think of the energy that comes behind the words chasing.
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Now we believe here that the energy comes first.
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So if I were coaching this person sending this, their energy is flawed to me.
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Exploring is good energy, you know?
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On a path to figure out or to determine if, to me, is good energy.
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Chasing is not good energy.
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It s bad intention energy.
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So that s, and what I want everyone listening to this to hear is we always talk about, you go to that inner game, oh, we can t say that anymore either, can we?
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I m saying all the dirty words today we get sued for.
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We go to the thinking column, what s inside of you, your energy, your philosophy, that always precedes
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your actions and your words.
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The words, yeah.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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And just that little, I ve been chasing your business for three years now.
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I don t even like the words, your business.
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Like, what can we do to earn your business?
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Yeah, that s what I, that s where my mind always goes.
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Oh, I just, I detest that.
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I don t hear that too much anymore.
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That was a big thing in the.
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I would agree.
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Millennium.
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You know, I, I m looking at this and I wrote down a couple of things here.
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Wrote down number one, don t rush to sex.
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I mean.
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Oh.
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Yeah.
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I mean, this is, you might think this comes out of nowhere, but let me explain.
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Let s go.
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If you are rushing there to the ultimate, which is the appointment or the business, I just feel like people are turned off by that.
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So there s a certain amount of courtship I think you need to engage in.
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that is bringing value to someone.
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I m off the sex thing now.
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I m back on business.
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But it s the courtship.
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It s the bringing some kind of interesting value.
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It s, hey, I ve got a article that I wrote yesterday on this, and I thought you might be interested in it.
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And by the way, I d love to catch up and see if we can help.
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I mean, something that s valuable versus just going for the jugular.
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And a lot of these emails that I get and direct messages from LinkedIn is just all about the meeting, the appointment.
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Let s jump on a phone call.
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I don t have time to jump.
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If I jumped on every phone call of every DM I got on LinkedIn, we wouldn t be able to do this.
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We d have to stop the podcast.
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We wouldn t be able to do this.
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No, we re not doing that.
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No, no, no.
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So I think there s another step there before we jump to the close.
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Go for the throat, as we used to say in sales.
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Go for the jugular.
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So what do you think about that?
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I mean, just put another step in there.
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Just be, you know, it s just, I don t know, courtship s probably not the right word, but you know what I mean.
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It s the nurture.
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It s the nurturing.
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Yes, and it should be balanced.
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all courtships should be balanced.
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We ve all, I ll speak for myself.
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I ve been in relationships like even like on the dating front.
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Yeah, we ve all been married many times.
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We ve all been married many, many times.
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I was just reading about Terry Bradshaw yesterday.
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I didn t know he d been married like four times.
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Really?
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Yeah, I didn t know that.
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He s got an interesting background on mental health.
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You should read about Terry Bradshaw.
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Oh, really?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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He s got real, really, really good in a good healthy way.
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Yeah.
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He s had some issues.
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He s dealt with them in a real healthy way.
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I like him.
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I like him.
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There s balance that s missed sometimes, right?
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There are times when you re more into them, and they re more into you, and you know, that just doesn t work well.
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It needs to feel balanced.
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This doesn t feel balanced.
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And I think you need to examine that in the tone of what you were saying.
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So that, I totally agree, Bill.
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There s a step, almost a step backward a little bit, you know what I mean?
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Just an acknowledgement of that, just to see what s there.
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Now, there s another interesting element to that, based on intention.
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If I see you, Bill, and I ve known about you and your business and something, and I know something could be better, and I feel really, really strongly about that, I m comfortable continuing to pursue that with good intention behind it.
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So I d love to hear that come out.
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So an example of that might be like, um, you know, in, in nine out of 10 cases like yours, I would have, you know, already closed the lid on this one and moved on down the road.
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I sort of can t let this one go mostly because of what I know about you and we can do.
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And all I want to see is to validate I m either right or wrong.
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You see, that s the honest, that s a brutally honest approach.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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And that can t be a sales tactic either.
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You don t know.
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I m going to do that.
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I m gonna do the nine out of 10.
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That s gotta be real.
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And we all have those too, right?
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Where you have certain clients, I m sure, Bill, you do, I do, where we ve leaned into that and say, you know what?
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You need to be in this program.
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You do, because you know something about other people.
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You go, you know what?
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I can tell you re doing good where you are.
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I d love to have you as a group, but I get that you might be too busy right now to commit that time.
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So maybe when you get a hold of that, come back.
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I don t know.
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Yeah, I had a thing last year.
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This client, actually, we d worked together for a few months, and we got down to deciding what are we going to do.
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The idea was we re going to do 90 days, see how it goes, and then we re going to bite off a year or whatever, another longer period of time.
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And we got down to the end, and one of the people said, you know, I think we re going to hold off for 90 days, and let s make the decision first of next year, whatever this was in 2020.
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I was sitting there, I knew we had done some really good work, really good work, and they were really starting to build momentum.
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And I just said, no, I m not going to let you do that, because here s what s going to happen.
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You re going to go in 90 days, and I m going to start calling you back on the 85th day, and you re going to say, you know, I think we need another 30 days.
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Let s just either end it now, and we re done, or
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We re gonna continue and frankly you should continue because you ll lose all the momentum because I know I know with having me here you re getting at least some momentum and blah blah blah and They both laughed it kind of smiled at me, and they said oh no you re exactly use the f-word you re effing right
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You re effing right.
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So let s keep going.
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And that s an idea that I wasn t attached to it.
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It was just sometimes you have to be brutally honest with people.
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And kind of like your approach here on this is, look, I think I can help you.
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If you don t want my help, then you need to tell me.
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But I know I can do some things.
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SPEAKER_00
And then, I guess the question then, Brian, is if your intent is in the right place, which is you intend to help them solve or reduce this problem, is it then good to say, look, if I don t hear from you, I ll never talk to you again?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because that feels like, well, that s kind of going against the intent.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, right, no, no, I don t think so.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s just, to me, if the time is right, the time is right now.
1
SPEAKER_01
But let s go back, your example is brilliant.
1
SPEAKER_01
By the way, if you re listening, you need to go back to what Bill just said, listen to it on a loop a few times, because that s the kind of stuff we re trying to teach.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it shouldn t happen in every call.
1
SPEAKER_01
If it happens in every call, you re selling.
1
SPEAKER_01
I guarantee it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because I m guessing, Bill, you didn t say that on every relationship you ve ever had.
1
SPEAKER_01
Some end, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
And you re like, yeah, it s time.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s been a great run.
1
SPEAKER_01
Did some great work.
1
SPEAKER_01
You got some good skills and things you re going to take with you forever.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it s been a great ride.
1
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t mean we never talk again.
1
SPEAKER_01
It just means we re off right now.
1
SPEAKER_01
But that one, we re like, no, we re not going to do.
1
SPEAKER_01
I love that.
1
SPEAKER_01
That plays so well.
1
SPEAKER_01
And people need the strength of that.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they ll buy the strength of that.
1
SPEAKER_00
But see, you might say, well, that s attachment.
1
SPEAKER_00
You were attached to it.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I was totally detached because I took a risk with that.
1
SPEAKER_00
They may have said, hey, don t talk to me like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
I felt like I could because I know them.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Honestly, the way I look at that, too, there s zero risk in that.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just don t see any risk in that at all.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s just the right thing to do.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we re both in the coaching business.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you re in our business, you know that if you try to dabble in our work, it does not work, period.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you go, well, I d like to move to quarterly meetings.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, it doesn t work.
1
SPEAKER_01
Quarterly training sessions don t work.
1
SPEAKER_01
Quarterly practice sessions can work better.
1
SPEAKER_01
Quarterly deal review sessions can really work.
1
SPEAKER_01
Quarterly trainings, no.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not worth it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Not worth it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Keep your money.
1
SPEAKER_00
So was there anything else in that thread that we want to?
1
SPEAKER_01
The last bit that I thought was really interesting was the bash of a competitor.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it s a little technical in the email, but there s a definite bash of the competitor.
1
SPEAKER_01
It says, they do this, we won t.
1
SPEAKER_01
What s your take on that?
1
SPEAKER_01
This other, so this is the person selling to our friend, you know, says they go, they do this over here.
1
SPEAKER_01
We won t, we ll save you money on that.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s kind of like the campaign commercial.
1
SPEAKER_00
He s evil.
1
SPEAKER_00
He s a devil.
1
SPEAKER_00
But on the other hand, Jonathan Smith is a family man.
1
SPEAKER_00
He has family values.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, geez.
1
SPEAKER_00
Vote for Jonathan, not for evil Brian Neal.
1
SPEAKER_00
He is evil.
1
SPEAKER_00
Vote for him as a vote for the devil.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s so true.
1
SPEAKER_00
His middle name is Satan.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think that you don t want to bash competitors.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s just like, come on, man.
1
SPEAKER_00
We re out of the 80s.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think you could do that in the 70s, 80s, 90s maybe.
1
SPEAKER_00
But people, it doesn t help.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s not helpful.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not helpful to the prospect to hear that because we all know the prospect is saying, well, of course you re going to say that they re evil, of course.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they re not.
2
SPEAKER_00
And how much over overdone high self-regard do we have that we think we re that much better than anybody else?
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it does the opposite.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it chisels you backwards.
2
SPEAKER_00
It says that you feel like you re a little brother that you re not as good as.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I think the better approach, any time you get a chance, it s got to be sincere.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you can even find this, even with your most hated rival, you can find something to brag on them about.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, you and I know people in our business that, you know, mute.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you know what?
2
SPEAKER_00
There are parts of them I can brag on.
2
SPEAKER_00
Any of them, I can brag on.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like the font type they use.
2
SPEAKER_01
Totally.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that s the thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Literally anything.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you know what I love about them?
2
SPEAKER_01
They use that Arial.
2
SPEAKER_01
Arial slash Helvetica.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it s sincere, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because I love font.
2
SPEAKER_00
He loves a good font.
2
SPEAKER_00
I do.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so I hope you hear in our analysis of this live email to a high-level decision maker, this is a C-level guy who this email is going to, you can see where there are some ways to do things better.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we re not overly bashing this dude.
2
SPEAKER_00
I also wrote back in my response to our friend, I said, I make an assumption that people do things that work.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I m not sure that s always the right assumption, but that s where I ve always landed.
2
SPEAKER_00
Maybe it s naive.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I m assuming this approach works for the guy.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like the commercial you ve seen and it bugs the hell out of you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like there s one right now for Caesars that I just hate that commercial.
2
SPEAKER_01
But they ve been running it for six months, every day, every hour.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re not doing that because it doesn t work.
2
SPEAKER_01
Correct.
2
SPEAKER_01
I hope not.
2
SPEAKER_01
I totally agree.
2
SPEAKER_01
I hope not.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s good.
2
SPEAKER_01
So also, if you get an email or a direct message and you want to share it with us at the podcast, just forward it to listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_01
And we will, again, promise not use your name nor use the person who sent it.
2
SPEAKER_01
But if there s something that comes to you, it s like, or if it s a good one, maybe somebody really has nailed it.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s even better.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
So send it on to us.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.