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Today I m going to be speaking to a very, very special and unique individual.
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We re going to be talking to Dr. Lisa Miller.
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And what s so interesting about her to me is that she is the living example of the connection between spirituality and science.
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And for so long, I ve believed that spirituality and science do not go hand in hand.
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Okay, I went to Catholic school and I remember being in science class and thinking, I m in Catholic school right now where there s one set of beliefs and then what I m learning in science class is sort of contradicting those beliefs and
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From that point forward, I was like, these two things cannot coexist.
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But I am now starting to understand that that was my misunderstanding.
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I was missing the point completely.
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Understandably so.
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I was 15 and wearing PacSun skinny jeans.
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Obviously, I had a lot of things to figure out.
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So we re going to be talking to Dr. Lisa Miller.
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She is the founder of Spirituality Mind Body Institute at Columbia University.
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She s also a professor of psychology.
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She has spent over a decade studying the impact of spirituality and religion on the brain.
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And she s a very spiritual woman herself, but she has the science to back it up.
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For those of you who are spiritual,
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This conversation with Lisa is going to be like music to your ears.
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For those of you who are not spiritual, this might feel like a lot, but I encourage you to open your mind and heart to spirituality as a whole.
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A lot of us are put off by spirituality because we associate it with religion, but religion and spirituality are very different.
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They definitely exist together often, but they are not the same.
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All that to say, have an open mind.
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Let s get spiritual with Lisa.
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My own spirituality is so like,
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It is so unique to me.
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It is so specifically like my own.
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connection with the universe that I feel.
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Like it s so abstract and only I feel like I can understand it.
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Like it s something I feel, but I cannot explain it.
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You feel it in your deep inner wisdom.
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Yes.
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And I think I ve actually always had that, but I didn t know what it was.
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Like, I know when I m connected to the universe.
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I know when the universe is pushing me to do something.
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I know when the universe is telling me not to do something.
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And I can hear that.
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And I don t know why and I ve gone through phases where I ve been like, I m losing it because what is that?
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I ve always been very scientific, right?
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Like, where s the proof of this?
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Where s the proof of that?
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That was like my, you know, young trying to feel mature.
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But I ve realized that, you know, spirituality, you cannot
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explain it a lot of times.
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It s very personal.
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Well, I love that you said you know.
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You know in a deep, deep way.
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Hard data.
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Yeah, 100%.
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Because I ve listened to the universe, taken the signs,
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And it s completely changed my life.
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Like listening to it and tapping into it and not fighting against it has only led me to a better life.
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Like I, to me, that s hard proof.
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So when it comes in, when you feel the guidance of the universe, is it, do you feel it as a sort of,
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tug in the heart?
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Do you feel it as a come here in your mind s eye, a direction?
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You know, people, it comes in on different channels for different people.
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I think for me, two ways.
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Number one, in moments of deep, deep, deep depression and despair, I have like these callings.
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Like where it s like,
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I know I need to do this, or even at times, somebody will come to me during one of those moments and say, you should do this.
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A synchronicity, a human being shows up and at that moment, not the five days before, the five days after, but in that moment.
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Yes, it s like I m in the depths of my despair and someone will suggest something that clicks.
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I can think of like two examples.
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When I was really depressed in high school, one of my darkest,
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darkest darkest times.
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My dad told me, you need to start a YouTube channel.
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That s so, that s when that happened.
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That changed my entire fucking life.
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To me, that s proof in the pudding.
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Why would he say that?
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Like, it s like, yeah, it s true.
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And yeah, he had reasons to say that, but it s almost like,
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That was so specific, and I listened, and it changed my whole life.
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When I was going through my first terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, most gut-wrenching breakup.
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The first breakup s the worst.
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The worst.
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It s traumatic.
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So I went through that first breakup.
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I got a call from my agent saying, you just got invited to a fashion show for the first time.
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And I loved fashion, but I was like, I don t need to be involved.
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Like, it s fine.
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Like whatever.
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And that opportunity just came to me in that moment.
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And I was like, so deep in my despair that I was like, oh, no, I don t even care.
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Like, I just want him back.
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Like, I don t care.
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But it s weird that these things come to me in my deepest, darkest moments.
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So fascinating.
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You know, your beautiful story about it s in our most painful moment where, you know, I can remember when I was 19, I fell in love for the first time.
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And he was perfect.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I d always wanted to date someone who looked like him.
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My type at the time was a wrestler and he looked like he was a wrestler.
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Stop.
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Oh, my God.
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Continue.
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And he looked like he d been carved out of marble.
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Yep, absolutely.
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Wow.
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Wow we were really living the same life.
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And every time he opened his mouth it was like pearls.
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He was so interesting and he thought I was interesting.
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And then after three months he said, I love you.
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I m like, you love me?
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Yeah.
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And then after five months, he broke up with me.
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And I was devastated.
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And I said, well, how, you said you loved me and now you don t.
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And he said, no, I truly did love you.
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And I m like, you don t love me now?
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And he said, no, I don t feel that way now.
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I m like, well, how can you stop loving someone?
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I mean, my mom loves me and she still loves me.
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My dad loves me.
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And it made no sense.
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And it sent me into a deep quandary of like, was love impermanent?
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And can we count on love?
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If he loved me and then he stopped, John, call him John.
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Well, is John real?
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You know, John s one way one day and one way the next, can we count on anyone?
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Can we count on anything?
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And it was a big existential dive.
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And I got more depressed and more depressed and everything I d ever taken to be true somehow got dismembered and upended.
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And I was really lost.
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And it wasn t just the breakup.
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It was this deep dive into, you know,
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what s life really about and can we count on each other and is there really love in the universe?
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It s growing up and losing that naive sense of trust that we just have in people s word, have in people s behaviors.
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We take things at face value and the second that this second dimension is added where it s like, wait a minute,
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that might not be real, that might not be true.
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We can t trust that.
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I ve had the exact same crisis.
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So I get it.
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So then, as you were sharing, I can say in my case, I really kind of fell through.
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Like I got depressed, you know, and I, you know, I was exhausted and I d wake up in the night and I was like picking at my skin.
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I looked hideous and I just felt really awful.
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And I took myself to a therapist and I said, listen, you know, I don t know what the meaning in life is.
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I don t know if love is real.
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All these things I d counted on the world I knew doesn t stand.
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And what actually happened in this year of real struggle was I started feeling just tiny intimations of the heart, these little blasts of love.
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And then people started showing up, as you d said so beautifully in your path, and started saying, Hey, come along with me.
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You want to go on a trip?
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You want to come to our family picnic?
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There were trail angels showing up.
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Hey, have you ever thought about trying this new program?
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And my heart opened and I actually found a deeper love.
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My heart awakened.
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So I lost the childhood notion that everybody s gonna be loving and love me forever.
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But what I gained was the universe loves every one of us.
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What is your definition of spirituality?
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Because
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You know, I think a lot of people get religion and spirituality confused, and understandably so, because it s like, religion is very, very spiritual, but it is also different.
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Like, they re very different.
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Like, you can be religious, I d argue, and not be spiritual.
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You can be spiritual and not religious.
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You can be both at once.
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So I m curious what your definition of spirituality is.
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So from the view of science, spirituality is our deep seat of perception through which we see into the deeper level of life.
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We are built, every one of us, with an inborn seed of perception to see into the deeper nature of life.
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That is our innate human spirituality.
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We all have this.
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Religion is how our natural spirituality is often cultivated by about two-thirds of people in the United States.
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Our natural capacity to feel the connection to the deeper nature of life, to the loving presence, that
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capacity is shaped by religion for about two-thirds of people in our country.
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So the sacred texts, the lessons in how to understand the universe and right by its side is how we treat each other.
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I think, I guess where I see the difference is like religion is
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It s almost like a school for spirituality in a way, right?
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It s almost like going to college or going to high school and like learning.
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About spiritual life.
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Yeah, but it s like whether or not you apply it is up to you.
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And whether or not the specific teachings work for you depends.
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You know, some kids do really well at school and they love the way that they re taught and they use it all and they soak it all up and then they get a job using what they learned there, right?
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And it benefits their life.
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And some people, they don t learn the way that school, it doesn t click for them, right?
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And they don t apply it and they don t get great grades.
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And then they end up getting a job elsewhere because that didn t fit.
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I see that as how organized religion is.
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It s like,
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It can help you if it s a good fit.
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It s a training, it s a guidance into your spiritual awareness.
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But not every faith tradition is a match for everyone, and not every messenger of a faith tradition is a match.
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You are built to have a direct, authentic relationship with the flame.
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You are built to find and know spiritual life.
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And how you get there, I guess, just is different for everyone.
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And for some people, they find support and guidance through their religion and faith tradition.
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And for some people, they say, it s in my own journey.
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It s in my own reflection.
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It s in my writing.
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It s on the top of Mount Rainier or in Glacier National Park or with my siblings.
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We get there different ways.
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But there is one spiritual brain and we all have it.
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When it comes to spiritual guidance, you know, this feeling that we re being spoken to by or led, I guess, by a God or the universe, everybody s picture of what that is is different.
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Do you think that that s coming from something outside of ourselves or is that coming
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from within, because that s something I ve never quite understood when it comes to my own spirituality.
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I feel like it s coming from outside of me.
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Like, it doesn t feel like it s coming from within me.
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I think there are parts of it that are, but I feel like there s another force.
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Absolutely, there s another force.
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It s spirit.
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See, yes, but it s like, what is, is that like,
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a part of our brain that s disconnected from the other part?
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Or is that something truly outside of our body?
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Or is it something we can t even comprehend?
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Like what is that?
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So I would say that we all have an instrument for knowing.
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We have an awakened heart.
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We have an awakened brain.
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We have an instrument for knowing.
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And we can pick up on guidance.
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We can pick up on spirit.
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Consciousness or spirit, I think is both outside us and inside us.
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I think it penetrates and is in every little bit of life.
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And so it moves in and through us and it moves through one another.
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The way that your father knew just the day that was the double door opening for the next whole new chapter in your life.
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Yeah.
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So I think we re tapping in to one sun, one source of life, and that it s in us, through us, and among us.
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Spirit is in us.
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Spirit s through us.
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Spirit s among us.
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And you are exquisitely attuned.
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When something can t be perfectly explained, perfectly shown to me, this is what this is, I have a tendency to almost gaslight myself.
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and say what you re feeling is invalid because where is it?
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You feel this connection to the universe, something larger.
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But where is it?
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You know, where is it?
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Like, show us where it is.
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But then I m also like, but Emma, you feel that.
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You feel that.
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Do you need any more proof?
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Why do you need more proof?
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It s this inner battle.
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And I think for a lot of people, that inner battle prevents tapping into one s spiritual side.
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And I know for me, I m constantly fighting that.
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voice saying, but where is it?
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Is that real?
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How do you know that s real?
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Is it enough proof to just feel inside that there s something there?
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Inner knowing is hard data.
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Inner knowing is real.
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It s absolutely real.
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And as you said, when we listen to our inner knowing and we say, okay, my gut instinct says every single day I go right at this corner, but something s telling me to go left.
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and there I find a child in need, or there I find a friend I haven t seen in seven years that I m so excited to see again.
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That deep gut instinct that says, no, today turn left, could actually open up double doors in our lives.
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Because when we only base our decisions on what s happened in the past, every day I go, right, and I need to go to the grocery store, and I ve got to meet my friend, and we re having a coffee.
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I m using data that to the second is outdated.
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It s what I ve done yesterday and the day before and the day before that.
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But that gut instinct, that inspiration, that mind s eye where you suddenly see, no, I should go left.
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You hear, go left.
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That has information that s yet to unfold.
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That has information that opens up where we re about to heel strike to something new.
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So our gut instincts, our intuitions, when we listen to synchronicity, that knowing inside, that is the best knowing we have.
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That gut instinct that we think, well, should I really listen to that?
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No, no, that, that is what will guide you.
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That is the bedrock.
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Do you think it s harder to be spiritual today?
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I think it s more necessary to be spiritual today.
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I agree.
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It s because like, we look back and religion used to be, which, you know, as we mentioned earlier, isn t always spirituality necessarily.
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Though I think in history, it was.
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People needed religion back then.
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And, you know, now,
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modern religion is not working for a lot of people.
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A lot of people are like it s outdated and you know in some ways maybe it is and it s it s more complicated now the relationship to religion is complicated and I think a lot of people are like well I still need something I need to be spiritual but also a lot of people are like all this stuff s outdated where s the cold hard evidence and I feel like
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my sort of situation with like my depression and then dad telling me to start YouTube.
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What would have happened otherwise?
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Like I can t imagine.
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It changed my life in the in the most insane way.
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I can t even like to me that s I
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cannot deny that.
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When somebody hasn t had an experience like that, how do you explain to them what being spiritual is?
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Because
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There are a lot of people who don t have that proof, you know, in their own lives yet.
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It s yet to come.
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So, or maybe they have and they just haven t seen it or they ve been pushing it off.
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Like, how do you speak to somebody who maybe hasn t had this intense moment that s so clear?
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May we do a practice, a brief practice?
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Oh, yeah.
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That invites people into their own awareness?
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Of course.
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Okay, beautiful.
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This is this practice I call the road of life.
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And it s just, you know, a minute and a half.
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Let s do it.
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Okay, great.
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I m going to invite you if you d like to take a few breaths, close your eyes.
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Clear out your inner space.
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I invite you to locate a time where you wanted something so badly.
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It could have been him or her or them to say yes, to love me.
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It could have been a job, an internship.
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It could have been
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somewhere you wanted to go, somewhere you wanted to travel, you got everything set up, it was yours, that job, him heard them, that school, that opportunity, you did everything right, A plus B plus C, research strategy, you were clever, you made a tactic, you went for your red door, that is your red door, you grabbed the handle, but it stuck.
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and you can t believe it s stuck because you did everything right.
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You did A plus B plus C, you were clever, you tactically were on the nose and you kick the door, you might in time get frustrated or even depressed, maybe more depressed.
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But only because that red door was stuck, you had no choice, you pivot, you turn 40 degrees, you turn 120 degrees,
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And over there is a wide open yellow door, a shining open yellow door.
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You might ve said yellow doors don t exist.
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You hadn t heard of yellow doors, never thought of yellow doors.
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On the other side of the yellow door is someone more right for you that makes you feel alive, that makes you feel at home in your inner heart, is a job that makes you feel creative and energized, is a mentor, is a friend,
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That yellow door that has everything to do with who you are and where you are today.
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It was not what you had wanted.
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It was better than what you wanted.
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And as you sit back now and you think of that stuck red door and the hairpin turn that brought you to the wide open yellow door that has everything to do with who you are and where you are today.
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Was there anyone standing at that hairpin turn who said, Hey, it s time for you to look at that yellow door.
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Hey, when I was on this path, I found a yellow door, someone who gave you information, guidance, maybe even direction, a trail angel.
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And as you sit back now and look at that stuck red door, hairpin turn, trail angel, and wide open yellow door that has everything to do with who you are and where you are today, how are the most important parts of our lives found?
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Is it narrowly through planning and chipping away?
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Sure, we ve got to be prepared and work hard, but that alone is insufficient.
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Because in the greatest moments of struggle and disappointment and loss, is it possible that we are not narrowly makers of our path, but discoverers of our journey?
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And instead of asking, why didn t I get what I wanted?
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And why didn t he still like me?
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What if we shift the conversation with life and awaken to what is life showing me now?
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What is the universe revealing to me now?
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How am I being guided?
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Where is the yellow door?
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And finally, as you sit way back, stuck red door, hairpin turn, trail angel, and wide open yellow door, is it possible that you have been on a spiritual path all along?
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Where in this journey
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Is guidance the universe, whatever your word is, God, spirit?
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Is the universe in the wide open yellow door and the stuck red door?
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Is spirit in your trail angel and your openness to be in dialogue with the deeper presence in life, the great positive sacred force that s loving, holding, and guiding?
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Is it possible that you have been awakened, that you have been on a spiritual path all along?
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I just transcended through time.
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No, no, I m not kidding.
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I just transcended through time.
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I just literally feel like I ran around the universe and came back.
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I like was so there with you.
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Like I, I was so there.
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It almost freaks me out how there I was.
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That was so phenomenal.
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Would you consider sharing a bit?
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For me, this is something that I so deeply need to be reminded of, is every roadblock that comes up needs to be seen as a gift.
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Every single one.
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You know, we all have a tendency to experience something that goes against what we thought we wanted and to be angry at the universe at first.
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Like, why is this happening?
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And it s okay, I think, to be sad, but I think it could be life-changing to see every challenge and every
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pivot as a gift.
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It is a gift.
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And when you were talking about it, it just made me think about in relationships, career-related things where I ve been devastated, like beside myself devastated.
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I was thinking about in those moments if I could have shifted that and said, this is a beautiful pivot from what you thought your path was.
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But I also think that there s something to be said for letting go a little bit.
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What if you re never too hyper-focused on the red door and you re always looking around so that you can always sort of see everything.
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You keep that eye open.
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I was having a lot of amiphony.
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So a broad lens, a big, fluid, flowing way of being.
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What is life showing me now?
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I love the shift from why is life happening to me to why is this happening for me?
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Yes.
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So let s scan and keep open to the yellow door that I can only see because this red door is stuck.
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That yellow door is a gift.
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Yeah.
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And all of these beautiful treasures that you ve shared, you know, about the podcast, about fashion, these double doors opening are because you pivoted and said, yes.
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What is the universe revealing to me now?
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What am I being invited to become by the universe?
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That s a spiritual path.
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100%.
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And it s not radical control.
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I think radical control keeps us trapped in yesterday s ideas.
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And when we awaken to the universe saying, Emma, come with me.
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It s so much easier, isn t it?
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Like to just sit back and relax and
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Do your best in life, work towards your goals, work towards what you want in life, while still keeping an open mind about what the end looks like.
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I ve been really thinking about this a lot.
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You can t be so obsessed with what every step is going to look like.
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This beautiful balance.
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And the awakened brain, I talk about we have two neurocircuits.
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And one is our achieving brain.
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You know, I ve got to have it.
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I want to have it.
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I ve got it.
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I can t sit home eating ice cream.
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I ve got to go out and try.
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our awakened brain.
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And our awakened brain is the one in every single one of us that hears the call, you know, Emma, you re being called for a podcast.
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And to be able to receive guidance and know that we are loved and held and guided, we
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never alone.
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That is our awakened brain.
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It s there for all of us.
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And yes, that is hard data.
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When we perceive that deep guts feeling, that knowing of the heart, sometimes in my mind s eye, I can hear it or envision where we re going next.
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That is very powerful.
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That is the best information we have.
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That is the truest source of guidance we have.
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So true.
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Can you dig a little bit deeper into the difference between the achieving brain and the awakened brain?
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Are these two sides of the brain that can coexist?
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Are they separate sort of mindsets?
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So you re either experiencing one mindset or you re experiencing the other.
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Just dig into what these are, I guess.
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So every one of us learns very well in school, first grade, second grade, all the way through to plan and to strategize.
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And it s helpful.
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I mean, we ve got to pay the rent.
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We ve got, but that alone is not going to fill the hole in the heart that will not fill the bucket of life.
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And all the planning and all the strategizing in the world doesn t prepare us for the knock at the door for our calling, our path, the miracles that line our journey.
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And so we need to engage the wholeness of how we re built.
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Our brain literally has a station in it, circuits, through which we can perceive the guidance.
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It s literally a shift in the attention from the dorsal to the ventral attention network.
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We re built with these shifts from exactly as you described it, Emma, this narrow bowling alley look into life.
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You know, how am I going to get this?
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This is what I wanted.
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I have got to get this job.
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I ve got to get him to back to, wait a minute.
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the floodlights go back on, life is illuminated, and wow, there is a big open double door right here, a double yellow door.
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So our awakened brain is our gift.
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We have it.
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And at any moment, we can awaken to the love that connects us and guides us to the guidance that our heart, our intuition, sometimes even we can hear and see,
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we can awaken to the spirit through life.
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And when we do, we re walking our authentic life and we can find all sorts of opportunities where people are showing up for us and beautiful moments where we can show up for one another, because it s all actually, you know, not just a world of fractured people in different places.
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It s a world where we re magnificently unique and incredibly beautifully diverse.
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And we re part of one family of life, one source, one spirit.
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So you talk about the connection between spirituality and science, right?
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Because it s not just something that we feel, there is also science to back it.
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And this is something I actually didn t know.
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So you are going to be opening my mind as well as everyone else s to how science and spirituality become one.
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How do you even study something as abstract and
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internal as spirituality?
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So I will tell you that the science, there s moments as a scientist, a career scientist, that when we look through the lens, it is jaw-droppingly breathtaking.
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And the science on human spiritual life is truly awe-inspiring.
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It turns out that when we use the many different lenses in science, we see first and foremost that every single one of us is a naturally spiritual being.
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just as we re physical, emotional.
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Mental beings, we are inherently spiritual beings as we re physical, emotional, cognitive beings.
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So too, we are spiritual beings, every one of us.
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We know this through the lens of science using a twin study.
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Switching lenses, science has a whole stack of lenses.
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We can look inside the brain, we can use an MRI study.
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And it turns out that within every human being on earth, there is a common shared one spiritual brain and we all have it.
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This brain, our awakened brain, has four components.
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In times of joy, in times of sorrow, we can engage our awakened brain and see into life in a much deeper way that just opens up dimensions.
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The components are that we perceive and know.
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Know we are loved and held.
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The bonding network comes up online just as it was there as children in our parents  arms.
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We shift attention networks from the narrow bowling alley, I ve got to have it, why am I not getting what I want, dorsal,
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attention to the big, broad, bottom-up ventral attention network where the lights go on and many people say, hey, a new direction pops.
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We see we are loved and held guided.
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And then finally, the parietal region that puts in and out hard boundaries.
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So we know that, you know, we are in LA or we are in New York or Beijing or Mumbai.
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We have a different GPS coordinates.
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We have different bio body suits.
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but we are also part of one source of life.
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White caps on one ocean, interbeing, as Thich Nhat Hanh said.
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We are one family of life.
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We are loved and held guided and never alone.
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This seat of perception, the frontotemporal network, the shift in attention network, and the parietal region allows us to perceive.
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So this is not a belief.
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This isn t a leap of faith.
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This is a deep seat of perception, our awakened brain, through which we see into the deeper true nature of life.
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Let s see if I m understanding this properly.
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We re wired to have the ability to see the world in a way that goes hand in hand with spirituality.
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Yes.
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The spirituality itself is not what is studied, but rather the fact that in the brain, like we can t see somebody thinking of... We re not measuring God.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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We re not measuring God, but what we are measuring is our ability to perceive the world in a way that
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awakens us spiritually like yes there are certain animals probably that are biologically created to perceive the world a certain way so that they survive right and then we are also
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like created biologically a certain way so that we can see the world in a way that is spiritual.
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Is that it?
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So that s the first piece that we are built to perceive a spiritual world.
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Then the second piece is just as we re wired to see chairs and tables so we don t bump into them.
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When we see into the world at the spiritual level, life unfolds, real life, high traction life in a way that is far more glorious.
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We are healthier.
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We re 80% protected against addiction.
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We are 70% protected against really dangerous risk-taking.
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In this pandemic, the tragedy, the real epidemic for Gen Z is tragically suicide.
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The rate of death by suicide rivals the rate of death by auto accident in high school.
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Well, a strong spiritual awareness is 82% protective against completed suicide when shared.
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When we share our understanding spiritually with one another, we are four-fifths protected against the most heinous pandemic.
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It isn t COVID or cancer for Gen Z. It s suicide.
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And we have the antidote.
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if there were a little pill like melatonin or C, and I said, hey, you could take this and be 82% protected against the pandemic, this tidal wave.
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So the felt sense of, and it s a very real feeling of loneliness and isolation, the nagging fear of inadequacy, that has an antidote.
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And it s knowing our deep true, knowing, perceiving how we re built to see our true spiritual nature.
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And I don t know if this is just now or maybe this has existed throughout time, but I think because of social media, the internet, all of these things that sort of dehumanize other people in a way, I feel like it s harder than ever to be spiritual now because I d argue, and sort of what I m absorbing through this conversation is how
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You know, being spiritual involves more than just oneself, but it s also the entire world around you, right?
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And the way that the internet and modern technology disconnects us from the real world, it just makes so much sense to me why
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I think it s really hard to be spiritual now because
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we re not as in touch with the world around us on so many levels.
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Like we re disconnected from everything.
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Emma, the world is banking on Jane Z to realize your spiritual heart, okay?
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Yeah.
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Every era, it has been the young adults that bring culture forward, right?
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In the civil rights movement, it was people in their 20s that brought forward a new society of greater equality.
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Well, right now, this is a world that is full of fracturedness.
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Yeah.
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absurdly polarized, you know, unnecessarily bickering people.
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And there s a deeper reality that we can know through our awakened brain, through our awakened awareness.
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There is a deeper reality of love and oneness and connection where, okay, yes, even if people happen to have a different idea or happen to have a different political party, can I love you more deeply as a soul on earth?
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See, that s the thing that s been so
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for me, really like spiritually, I guess, disheartening over the last few years.
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And I mean, I think the way that people treat each other and the way that people feel comfortable treating themselves even online is
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I think that it s destroying the human spirit.
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Because it s not face-to-face, because there s something in between, people behave in a way that is completely evil.
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disrespectful towards themselves, you know, by maybe portraying themselves.
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They, you know, edit themselves to look a certain way or they do whatever, you know, to look a certain way online, which I would say is somewhat disrespecting yourself.
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It s like, you look great.
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Like, don t do that.
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You know what I mean?
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That s not fair to you.
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I feel like our comfortability to do things that are spiritually bad for us,
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is we re more comfortable doing those things because it s not face to face.
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And so that s creating
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a lot of really depressed, anxious kids.
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I so agree with you that, you know, it s actually the same awakened awareness through which we can know this deeper seat of perceiving through which we know we are loved and held, guided, and never alone by the universe is the same deep seat of perception in our brain through which we can show up for one another to be loving and holding, guiding,
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never leave anyone alone.
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So what you are diagnosing right as our societal ill is indeed an atrophy of our natural awakened awareness of our natural spiritual awareness and we can build it back up.
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How are we to do that?
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You know like I think it s especially my generation so
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chronically online and it s so like, by the way, me too, like me too, in every way, shape or form.
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I try to have a healthy balance with it, but I m starting to question if that s even possible.
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If we were to take away the social media, which by the way, I don t even want to do, like I enjoy social media, but I also know that it destroys me mentally and it
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It makes me less spiritual.
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It like immediately just takes me down to this level that I m better then.
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But there s something about social media that just takes me down immediately to this lower vibration of thinking.
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Without, no matter what, I m realizing.
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So part of me wonders, is it possible to participate in these things that make our lives easier, more accessible?
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still find our spiritual awakening?
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Like, is that possible?
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So Emma, you are opening the door of using the public square as a place for authenticity, for awakening of our natural spiritual heart.
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May we do another practice?
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Oh my God, I would love to.
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Okay, this is an invitation.
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I invite you to close your eyes, clear out your inner space,
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This is an invitation to open your awakened brain.
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In your inner chamber, I invite you to set before you a table.
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This is your table.
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Into your table, you may invite anyone, living or deceased, who truly has your best interest in mind.
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anyone living or deceased who truly has your best interest in mind.
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And with them all sitting there, ask them if they love you.
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And now you may invite your higher self, the part of you that is so much more than anything that you may have done or not done, anything you have or not have, your true eternal higher self.
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and ask you if you love you.
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And now you may invite your higher power, however, you know, whatever word is yours, universe, spirit, God, your higher power, and ask if they love you.
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And now with all of these people sitting here right now, what do they need to tell you now?
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What do they need to share?
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What do you need to know?
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And when you re ready, I invite you back.
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This is your counsel and they are always there for you.
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Who shows up may change depending on where you are in your journey.
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And you can ask what is on your heart.
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This is your natural awakened brain.
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No one can ever take your awakened brain away from you.
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This is yours.
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You have a direct connection to source.
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Wow.
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I so rarely can snap into like that.
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There s something about you that is so special because I, it s like I had the ability to like snap into it so easily.
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I don t know.
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I think we ve created a very, very unique space because I was able to just like,
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get there immediately.
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And I think a lot of young people underestimate, I think, myself included, how important this is, like how really, really important this is.
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And I think it s very obvious, like what is beneficial about being in touch, like being, having a spiritual awakening, understanding that side of yourself, but
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for people who are listening, how can it change your life?
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I think a lot of people are like, yeah, maybe it ll make me happier, but also going out tonight with my friends will make me happy, which is true.
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That can be really fun and can make you happy.
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But I think these assignments that you give yourself, like I m gonna become more spiritually awake, can feel, it s delayed gratification.
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So there s less motivation to have that
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to dedicate yourself to that.
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What do we have to gain from that?
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I think people who need that final push could benefit from hearing what you ve seen through your work.
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How does this change people s lives?
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So we started by talking about how in our most painful hour, in our darkest hour, it turns out that despair and depression can be a knock at the door.
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for an opening, really an awakening to a whole nother deeper felt love and buoyancy and connection and guidance that depression is the knock at the door for awakening, for awakening of our awareness.
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Well, as we just very gently on our own terms, nourish our own spiritual awareness, you know, and whether it s through meditation or being in nature, whether it s through purely honoring the gift,
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of an inspiration, a direct hit in the heart, a gut instinct, a knowing.
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When we honor our spiritual awareness, it grows stronger.
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It becomes the go-to place.
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And suddenly, all of life, as you said, the floodlights come back on.
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We start to see yellow doors.
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opening to people who we absolutely adore, to new experiences, to new jobs, to new types of a life we didn t even know existed.
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Because our big life, our biggest, fullest, most inspired life has yet to be brought into form.
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We don t know what that is.
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But it is far more full of love and far more shining and radiant and meaningful.
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deeply meaningful than anything we might have envisioned.
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It is a path forward so that our walk becomes one with a beautiful, big spiritual footprint.
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What would you say to somebody who has gotten dealt a really challenging hand in life, right?
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Somebody who, not their fault, they ve just had what seems to be
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terrible circumstance after terrible circumstance.
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Maybe it started when they re young and it just, it seems like a domino effect.
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And none of it is their fault.
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It s all things that have happened to them.
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I think people like that, they can go in two directions, you know?
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They can
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lean into the spiritual side of themselves out of necessity, but I think a lot of people lose faith completely.
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They just, they re like, well, how is there something out there protecting me?
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Because I have yet to be protected by anything ever in my life.
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How, what would you say to somebody who s in that position?
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So the science has this beautiful lens through which we ve seen that trauma, real despair, post-traumatic stress disorder, anxious flashbacks, trauma is a gateway to growth.
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And when science turns the lens and looks real close at how that growth unfolds, it turns out that if I can access that very experience, the trauma itself that day, put it in words, share it with people I trust,
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And then shine the light of spiritual awareness onto that moment.
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God, what are you showing me here?
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Spirit, where are you here?
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There is the profound reshuffling of meaning.
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I didn t fall through the black hole.
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I am still here.
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I was caught.
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So post-traumatic spiritual growth can come out of trauma.
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And when we choose that work, and it can take time, it s not just two weeks, it can take years, right?
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I realized on the other side that I had been held all along.
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So it s a matter of looking back and saying, terrible things did happen to me.
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And they re real.
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And they re real.
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And they re not fair.
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And it sucks.
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But also, look at how I got through something that s so terrible.
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I got through that.
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And now I m able to help more people as a result in a way.
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Your spiritual teacher in your walk and in your talk
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and your spiritual warrior, because the force of love and renewal is far greater than the force of entropy and destruction.
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This spiritual awakening of it all is, it s so exciting and we can all do it right now.
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And I, you have inspired me today to further that growth and like,
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put some more attention to it.
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And I feel like I have more knowledge on how to do that now.
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And I can imagine so many people out there right now are feeling the same way.
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Emma, I honor your awakened walk and your awakened life.
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And to the beautiful Gen Z, let s awaken our world.
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Let s do it.
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Let s do it.
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Wake up!
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You all have an awakened brain.
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Yes.
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And we re counting on you.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Thank you so much.
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Lisa is such a phenomenal human being and I m so incredibly grateful that she took the time to speak to me and honestly give me another spiritual awakening that I was not expecting.
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I was not expecting to have that today.
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It really did trigger a lot of thoughts in my brain that I think needed to be triggered.
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If you enjoyed this episode, go check out Lisa s books.
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She s the author of several books, including The Spiritual Child, The New Science of Parenting for Health and Lifelong Thriving, for my parents out there, and The Awakened Brain, The New Science of Spirituality in Our Quest for an Inspired Life.
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Go check those books out.