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Welcome everybody to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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Here every week for your listening enjoyment.
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Glad you re here.
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If you haven t found us on LinkedIn, go find us on LinkedIn.
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If you just found us, we still have lots of new listeners that come on board.
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It s amazing when you tell people, Bill, I m sure you ve had this happen when they you ask them about podcasting, or they ask you and you say, How long have you been doing been podcasting?
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And you say, 16 years, and they don t believe you ever.
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Yeah, but we have every Monday, we ve been coming to you live, sort of for 16 years.
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And luckily, the advanced selling podcast has avoided the writer strike.
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The writer s track.
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No one is picketing outside the Vanselling podcast studios.
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So we should be good to stay.
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Unlike Saturday Night Live, we just canceled the rest of their season.
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Did they really?
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They did.
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Yeah.
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The writer s track is, you know, uh, yeah.
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Pete Davidson was scheduled, I think, to be on there.
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Pete Davidson, former cast member, scheduled to be on, uh, they had to cancel it cause the writers aren t writing.
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And so he, I saw on social media, went out and bought, they re all picketing outside the,
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They re at 30 Rock there, and he bought him some pizzas.
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Nice guy there, for the writers.
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Yeah, you know, forgive me for not feeling sorry for those guys, but you know, when you think of somebody like Jerry Seinfeld, and I know Seinfeld doesn t do every week for an hour and a half, so I know you ve gotta have writers, but sometimes I look at the guys like that, he didn t have writers.
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I mean, he literally wrote everything himself, and he d go out and test it, and he would just get a pencil and a paper and start writing and observe things.
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And now, you know, Jimmy Fallon has 27 writers.
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Yeah.
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27 writers just for his, basically it s the monologue because there s, well, I guess there s skits.
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I mean, they do other things, but.
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27?
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Wouldn t they at some point start falling all over each other and start fighting?
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Well, then I just wonder too, like you said, there s only so much.
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And I remember Jay Leno talking about how he used to write his show.
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They would do it after the show.
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The show taped like six Pacific time.
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They d go to his house and they d actually write jokes for the next day to like one or two in the morning.
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And they would just start handing jokes and stuff, and then he would pick the ones that worked the next day.
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And yeah, at some point, you kind of feel like there s a diminishing return on account there, right?
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OK, I m going to see.
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I think the first U30, go stand over here.
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You guys are going to be writing about the election.
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And then U30, here in the middle, I want you writing about AI.
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And then sometimes it feels like it falls flat because it s not Fallon or it s not their joke.
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It s a joke that they ve gotten and rehearsed.
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And I m sure they have to accept it and everything.
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Anyway, let s get into today s topic.
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And before we do, we had an awesome meeting for the Advanced Selling Podcast Insider in May.
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And we talked about story.
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And Scott Snowden and I did a special where we talked about construction of the story.
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And also then, how do you craft that story and deliver it out in the marketplace?
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So if you re interested in being a part of the Insider Program, advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider.
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June, July, August, curriculum is set.
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So if you have not checked that out, check that out and just see what it is.
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There s a video there of two good looking guys.
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So we re going to get our topic here.
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And so the first thing I m going to do, we didn t plan this yet, Bill.
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So I say, Bill, how you doing today?
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How you doing?
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I m doing well.
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OK, just stop right there.
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Stop right there.
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That s good.
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So this is what we do, right?
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So we re going to talk about burnout today.
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We re going to talk about how we re really doing.
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Because Bill asked me, so what s going on?
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How are you doing?
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And we talk every other week.
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But two weeks go by, like, how are you doing?
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I said, you know what?
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I m kind of at the edge of being a little overextended.
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And Bill s like, me too.
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And so we want to talk about you salespeople.
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In this environment especially, when people, there have been a lot of rifts, a lot of headcount reduction, goals haven t changed.
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margins are getting compressed.
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So everyone s nervous, and there s pressure can put a lot of people into a place that s not mentally or emotionally healthy for them.
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Yeah.
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And so we want to talk a little bit today about the concept of burnout.
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And if you re experiencing this one to let you know that you re not alone.
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Number two is maybe think about how
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How do we handle burnout when we have it?
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And maybe how do we avoid it, too?
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I thought would be a good little contextual agenda for talking about burnout.
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How much of this do you think is self-imposed versus other imposed?
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Like, is our manager really telling us to work until 10 o clock at night?
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Or are we inefficient enough that we have to work till 10 o clock at night, and then we re burned out?
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And burnout s bigger than just working late, I realize.
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But how much of that s self-induced, do you think?
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Like for you, it s 100% self-induced.
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I think it s for everybody.
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I really do.
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And people don t like to hear that.
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But the fact is that, you know, no one s making you stay at your job.
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No one s making you stay in your territory.
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No one s making you stay in your role.
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You re choosing to be there.
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And by your choosing to be there, you re choosing to be where all what comes along with all that stuff.
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So, and then you re also choosing, I think this is where it gets, you know, people struggle with this.
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Sometimes you re choosing to react or manage your reactions in a certain way, which is really hard.
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I get, believe me, I live this all the time.
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We all do is to say, you know, you had a dream last night, by the way, this is relevant.
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I had a dream that I met Saad Guru.
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That s how we get our best topics.
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It is when we dream.
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I just, I just, well, I had a really crazy dream.
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I had an anxious dream.
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Cause I was like, had a couple of big meetings today.
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I m like kind of unprepared.
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So I had this dream that was relative to that, but I met Saad Guru.
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Wow.
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Well, well, here s the bad thing.
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you re here, you re not, you never want to meet your idols.
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He was such an a-hole to me.
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I m like, you re sad guru, dude.
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I m like sad guru.
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And he like, he like shunned, he shook his head and waved me off.
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And I m like, I just want to shake your hand.
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He did dismiss me.
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I got my feelings hurt, but then I m like, wow, maybe, maybe he s not what I think he is.
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Point being, when if you follow a sad guru, which I think Bill and I do both, you know, socially, um, he talks a lot about this, about all this stuff is within you.
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It s a hundred percent.
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Everything is everything.
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It s really hard for people to grasp.
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Also, I think there s a, um,
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a common ethos that more is better.
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And more money is better than less money, which I think we all probably would agree with.
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But then that s the output.
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What are the inputs that allow it?
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If I want to go from 150 to 300 grand a year, let s just say, and I m working 40 hours a week now.
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I can t work 80 hours a week to get to 300.
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I ll burn out too quickly.
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So if I do have eyes for more.
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Big eyes, appetite, MCL, cafeteria, strawberry cake at the beginning, because we know that if I have that need to have more, it comes with a cost.
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Unless you reorient and reinvent your sales process and reinvent how you reach people and reinvent
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your whole pivot into an entirely different model.
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I m not talking about a different job, but just how you do business may have to change.
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If you re going to get to 300 grand on 40 hours a week, probably something s got to be different.
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There s no doubt.
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And so funny, I love that, that there is this, we have to continue to grow.
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We have to continue to build and that sort of thing.
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And that is a choice too.
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And so if it s a choice, you, what doesn t go, we said, well, we have to be able to build, but we do have to, well, we have to manage our personal, you know, uh, mental and emotional wellbeing, which you can do too.
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There s a belief that like, so the question we ask ourselves is how do I continue to grow?
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Cause I enjoy doing that and grow as a human, not just grow our income and stuff and not kill myself doing it, you know, inside out dive from the inside out.
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Yeah.
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That s the magic place.
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Yeah.
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Grows without, uh,
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mental instability and emotional instability.
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And I do hear that a lot.
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I know you started off the podcast, or maybe the pre-worked, by saying that you re hearing it a lot.
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We re feeling it.
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I think one question that we need to help people with, and I don t have an answer, I don t have the answer, and that is, how do you know?
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How do you know when you are susceptible to burnout?
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Or maybe you re on the edges of it.
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What are some indicators, do you think?
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Oh, that s a great question.
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There are there seem to be always emotional or mental triggers.
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You know what I mean?
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The first thing I think we pay attention to is our physical health.
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Like how are we actually feeling?
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You know what I mean?
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And it s hard.
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I think people get so numb to feeling a certain way.
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They get so used to feeling tired, they don t realize how tired they are, is what I m trying to say.
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I get so used to coming home after work and crashing on the couch that I don t realize how distant I am from my family.
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It catches up to you.
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You know what I mean?
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I think that s the first one, is somehow snapping away from that and going, how do I really feel right now, physically?
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It s the hardest thing, though, isn t it, to snap, to pull focus on your own life?
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Because we identify as the person who works hard during the day, comes home, crashes on the couch, has a couple of beers, and falls asleep.
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I was talking to a guy here six months ago.
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He goes, oh, yeah, I fall asleep every night on the couch at 8 o clock, and I wake up at midnight.
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And my wife s like, really?
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Is this healthy?
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That doesn t seem healthy.
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And I m quick to admit that I ve got some unhealthy habits at night, turning on Netflix for an hour, hour and a half.
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I try to limit it.
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But still, what could I have done with that hour and a half?
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Is that really the most relaxing thing is to sit in front of a screen?
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Is that really the most relaxing thing?
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I know we say, well, we just want to veg.
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We don t want to think.
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Well, OK, maybe I should go out and take an hour long walk.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Listening to past episodes of the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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That s what I would do.
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I mean, I would go back to, yeah, 2009.
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I d go to episode 48.
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That s what I would do.
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I did it this morning.
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I deleted my socials.
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I just need to take a really nice break over the Lenten season.
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And I m talking about the socials, not LinkedIn, but all the others, like Instagram, Facebook, that sort of thing.
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Just because I was just the last few days, I m feeling some burnout.
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And I just was scrolling and scrolling.
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And then I scrolled myself to the point of numb, where I m like, oh, this isn t even.
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Sometimes it s really entertaining.
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Like TikTok s really entertaining to me, or Instagram, seeing family or friends or whatever.
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And I m like, this is just not.
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You know?
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It s like you drink yourself sober.
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Yeah.
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You know what I mean?
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You re like, ugh.
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It s just numb.
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So I deleted them all this morning.
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Yeah.
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And I think that there are things we can consume that are inspiring.
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Like I know Sadhguru and I have some business people that I find very inspiring to listen to.
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I think those things are, that s where we need more content, not in how to.
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And hopefully this podcast today is inspiring you to think about whether you re burned out.
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I know one thing that is an indicator for me,
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And that is my ambition level goes down.
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And I m not the highest ambitious.
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I mean, you re off the charts ambitious.
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I m not.
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Intrinsically, I m just not.
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I have a vision for the way I want my life to be.
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And because of that, I am motivated to do the things that get me there.
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But I don t wake up with this full, oh, I ve got to go out and make 100 calls a day, and I ve got to go out and see.
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That s just not me.
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So when my ambition falls below a certain point,
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Oh, I wonder what this is, because I usually have some ambition.
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But if I drop to, like, if I ve got an idea for a new product, let s say, or a new program, and I think through it, and I look at it, and I analyze it, and I write about it, and I talk to somebody about it, and then I do nothing with it, that probably tells me that I m a little burned out, because I think, OK, well, I got this on paper, but, oh, man, it s going to be a lot of work.
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That s really good.
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there s a thing like the kind of the underlying theme here of like the burnout thing is just being very real with yourself and recognizing these these things whether it s like sleep or how you feel or
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your connection with others, or your physical fitness, or just your anxiety feelings, or if you re numbing yourself out with social media, or food, or sugar, or booze, or something like that.
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Look at this.
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It s a thing for sure.
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I want to hit a sentence or two about avoiding.
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How do you keep from getting to a point where you re like, whoa, I m too far down the path of the burnout?
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How do you avoid it?
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Yeah, because if you go too far down, I think you will change so much to accommodate it that it s hard to unwind it.
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So I agree with your premise there.
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And so if I m burned out and I m having feelings of despair of some kind, like if it s really serious, then I ll start to drug or drink or porn or shop or whatever.
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And then after that, we start to make decisions
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Really bad decisions.
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Really bad decisions.
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Right.
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So I think your premise of how do we stop that probably gets back to recognize when you re at the cusp of it.
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Yeah.
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I like the cusp.
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Right.
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When you re at the start of it, and then decide, OK, well, I ve got to.
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Because it gets back to what you said earlier.
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It s like, how do we pull focus on ourself?
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Yeah.
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And usually, we don t have somebody around us.
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I mean, our spouse sometimes, partner s spouse, says, hey, I ve noticed something lately about you.
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You don t seem to be yourself.
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Very few people will say that to us.
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And at the workplace, nobody will say that.
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Truth.
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Truth.
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And sometimes we need people in our lives to say that and be willing to hear that and not just, well, what are you talking about?
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What are you on my ass for all the time?
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Yeah, totally.
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Because I can go there pretty quickly.
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Yes.
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Oh, totally.
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And that s a defense mechanism.
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If I m being defensive, I m like, there s always something behind defensiveness in yourself, always.
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You re not defensive unless something s that s touching a nerve, or you wouldn t be defensive about it.
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That s right.
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So, so interesting.
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And when we are, and maybe that s an indicator too.
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Maybe that s an indicator when we re a little defensive about somebody correcting us.
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And because if we re in solid emotional well-being, and we re on solid ground, if somebody says, hey, Bill, you had three typos in the last email newsletter.
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I m sorry.
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Instead of saying, well, who gives you the right to critique?
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Exactly.
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It s true, isn t it?
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I just went, there s a person I don t know well, but he s a big coachy guy.
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I m like, didn t know much about him.
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I ll go check out his website.
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First thing I noticed is he left a couple of words out of the paragraph.
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And I m like, do I tell the guy?
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I m like, no, it s fine.
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I always feel like, eh, maybe he did it on purpose just to let us know that he s like us.
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That s funny.
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Yeah.
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One of my pet peeves, you ve heard me, you know, how, you know, what an audio,
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weirdo I am is when someone, like I heard this podcaster the other day, interview this guest.
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And this guest has a podcast, has been on the television, been TV host.
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And this guest was like 100 feet away from the frickin microphone on the podcast.
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And I thought, shit, I m the same way.
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Should I tell her?
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Should I tell him?
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I was like, what business is it of yours?
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Who cares?
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If nobody wants to listen, that s on them.
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But then you think, well, but I like them, and I want to help them.
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And so I m always going through that.
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So I think that the takeaway here for me is to recognize if there are any physical indicators, emotional indicators, or behavioral indicators.
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Behavioral indicators would be like, I m getting a little pissed at people, or I m reacting, or I m isolating.
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That s one.
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I m lonely, but I don t really want to be around people because it s too much hassle.
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And I think this whole COVID, working from home, virtual, I think that is a
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bigger problem than we lead on to.
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Yeah, I do too.
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I do too.
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That s a good one.
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I think a lot of people are dealing with this burnout right now.
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I really do.
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And I think, hopefully, listening to this podcast, you ve gotten a couple of ideas.
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Number one, if nothing else, we just shook the trees a little bit.
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And you re like, oh, yeah, I need to take inventory here.
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That s right.
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And then you ve got to find, I think, the way to find yourself out of it is to engage in activities and behaviors that lift you up.
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Like, Bill, you talked about listening to inspiring people, or just pausing, or taking a free day,
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or deleting your socials, just something to get yourself on the way to reset, for sure.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it used to be, if we were burned out and we d see all our buddies in the office the next day, and anybody else feeling, bro, yeah, I m too, oh, yeah, and we d go out and have a beer and it d be over.
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That s it, right?
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SPEAKER_00
We re all good.
1
SPEAKER_01
We re all good now because we re real, not because of alcohol.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, no, right, but yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
There were other people there who felt like we did.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then we think, okay, we re not alone.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
So, and sometimes it s just that, but we don t, we don t have that as much today.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s hard to set up a zoom call and talk about burnout.
1
SPEAKER_01
It just doesn t, it doesn t work.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it doesn t replace the human connection you get when you re live in real with someone.
1
SPEAKER_00
If people think it does, it does not.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we ve got all this mental health stuff going on.
1
SPEAKER_00
No one is correlating this work from home and COVID shutdown to the mental health.
1
SPEAKER_00
No one s saying those are connected.
1
SPEAKER_00
They have to be connected.
1
SPEAKER_00
They have to be, have to be, have to be.
1
SPEAKER_01
So we d love to hear what you think about this.
1
SPEAKER_01
Go to our LinkedIn page, advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn.
1
SPEAKER_01
Join our 11, 12,000 member audience there.
1
SPEAKER_01
We d love to hear from you.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if you re a new listener, tell us who you are, where you re from, what you do, and what you want to learn from us.
1
SPEAKER_01
Awesome, and then also go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you d like a little bit more in-depth training once a month on the first Friday of the month, it s called Insider, and I think you ll find it extremely valuable for people.
1
SPEAKER_00
Extremely, off the hook valuable, especially for what you pay for it.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right, see you next time.
1
SPEAKER_00
See you next time, bye.