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This is the art of charm.
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Learn everything you need to know to crush it in business, love, and life.
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Today we re talking with my friend Philip McKernan.
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He argues that if you re not living a life you love, it s time to have a tough conversation with yourself.
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We ll also discuss how an intuitive soul set can serve you beyond the limitations of a purely intellectually driven and sometimes inauthentic mindset, what intuition actually is and whether it has a place in business and the idea that it takes courage to step away from something that s not working but is almost always worth it.
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Naturally, we ll leave you with an action plan to start that dialogue with yourself that, for many of us, might lead to some pretty big changes.
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And with that, welcome to the Art of Charm.
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I m Jordan Harbinger.
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The Art of Charm brings together the best leaders, teachers, and exceptional individuals to teach you how to be a top performer in life, love, and at work.
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Imagine having a mix of experienced mentors teaching you expertise, packing their research, decades of it at times, testing, and all their tough lessons into a curriculum.
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We might not have all the answers, but we certainly have all the questions.
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Stay up to date with AOC and get some great stuff that we don t or can t share on the show by signing up at theartofcharm.com.
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We ll send you our Fundamentals Toolbox.
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We ve got stuff in there like body language, nonverbal communication, networking, persuasion, negotiation, and a whole lot more.
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I ll also send you weekly videos to help you move forward every single week with action, not just mere inspiration.
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Also, we have our Social Capital Challenge at theartofcharm.com, slash challenge, or text charmed.
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to 33444, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444.
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We ll teach you how to network and inspire relationships for people around you, both personally and professionally.
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It ll make you a better networker, it ll make you a better connector, and of course, you can have your friends join too.
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That s the rcharm.com slash challenge or text charmed to 33444.
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And now, Philip McKernan.
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Tell us what you do in one sentence, if that s possible.
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Yeah, very, very difficult.
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I believe, I think what I do is I help people connect or reconnect to what it is they truly love.
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It s really easy to go, wow, that sounds really woo woo and silly.
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I mean, how do you connect with what you love?
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What does that even mean?
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So rather than have people thinking it in their minds, why don t I just ask you, what do you mean connect with what we love?
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I m connected to my family.
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I live with them.
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Yeah, but I mean, how connected are we to our families?
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So it s really about connecting within ourselves, within our own skin, to our story, confidence, the clarity that we often seek, connecting to the people around us in a more meaningful, deeper way, and connecting to work that, God forbid, we could actually do, make money at, and enjoy.
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Well, did you start off doing this?
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I mean, are you kind of a career coach, or have you had something in the past that caused you to come across, maybe stumble upon these lessons the hard way?
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Yeah, maybe I was a bit slow, but I did it for about 37 years doing shit I didn t want to do and maybe a little bit less.
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That s a long time.
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I mean, look, we re all in our own timeline, I guess.
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I regret going to college for seven years because I m not, quote unquote, using a lot of that stuff.
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And I feel like going back, I would have done things differently.
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But 37 years, it makes me feel a little bit better.
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Yeah, I obviously take out my childhood, but even then I felt that most of my life was doing shit I didn t want to do, whether it was going to school, whether it was standing in an environment, whether my parents, with the greatest respect in the world, were putting me in an environment to help me with life skills or teaching me something.
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But it was all these things that I felt I had to do.
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sometimes feel that we are often running from what we don t want and we rarely ever get a space or a time in our life where we stop and say, okay, to hell with what I don t want in my life, what is it that I want for the existence that I have and the remaining years of this world?
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Leaving religion and spirituality out of the case, whether you come back as a butterfly or whether you re reincarnated or whether you never die at all, or whatever other beliefs that you have, I just think that there s an urgency, and it s a word that I m very reluctant to use, but there s an urgency in the world
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around many, many things, but there s not often an urgency about doing shit that we really, really want to do on this earth.
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Running from things that we don t want.
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Let s talk about that and back that up, because I think that s something that people don t think about very often.
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It s really easy to chase a dream, and we ll talk about that in a bit, because often those, I think, are kind of false horizons themselves.
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But running from things that we don t want to do is an interesting point, or don t want to be,
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might even be more accurate.
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Because for me, personally, I went to law school because I m like, I don t want to be poor, I want to have a good job.
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I want my parents to be proud of me and other people to respect me and I don t want to have a bad job.
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I don t want to have to compete with other people because my education is at this level, so I m going to go higher and higher.
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And running from that fear, or using that fear to motivate myself moving forward, was getting me pats on the back by
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Everybody around me, but at the end of the day once I got to Wall Street.
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I was like this sucks This isn t for me at all how many years did that take that well counting going to law school in college?
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I mean, I spent seven years four years undergrad three years law school, and then I ended up on Wall Street It took like nine months.
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I mean I wasn t there for very long I think looking back 2020 hindsight.
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I knew that law school wasn t necessarily gonna
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be for me, I don t regret going, made great friends, hanging around smart people, seldom a waste of time, not necessarily the best use of time, but I didn t stick around for very long because I think all it did was confirm what I already knew, which was this isn t gonna be something I m gonna enjoy and it s not that rewarding other than the financial aspect.
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Yeah.
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And again, I m not suggesting for one second that I could look back or you should look back and say, well, that was all a waste of time because it s not because you can look back and you can draw parallels and realities and conclusions that there was aspects of this that have served you for who you are today.
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But I think many people use that as a reason not to actually face the reality that perhaps the unauthenticity of what they chased, chased down, ended up in, you know, didn t come at a cost.
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And my job is really about
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you know, getting people to wake up to that sooner rather than later.
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Unfortunately, you know, historically, it s changing because I have people who are coming to me now who are very proactive in this process.
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Historically, I would have people that come to me like the chiropractor would have somebody coming with a bad back.
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They come to you when they re in pain, where I m saying, listen, guys, maybe we can avoid pain in the future by actually really looking at the alignment of the work that you do today
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and the relationships you re in, or even physically where you inhabit physically the location.
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There are so many people on the earth today that are living in places they don t want to live.
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And they do it and they rationalize and justify it that it makes sense for a period of time.
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The challenge is that time period can often be 3, 4, 5, 10, or 15 years.
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I was one of the lucky ones.
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Maybe I was a bit slow getting to it, but I had the courage to stop and face my reality.
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And I didn t accept the bullshit story I was telling myself that, oh, hang on a second, this makes sense.
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All I got to do this is for another few years.
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Our pain threshold in society is so good today for doing shit that we don t want to do that
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we often justify and rationalise that staying where we are or doing what we re doing makes sense.
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And somebody said, you know, publicly, and other people have said it, that, you know, when you hate something, give it up.
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Don t do shit that you hate.
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Therein lies the problem, is that people are waiting until they hate something in order to move the needle or change the circumstances.
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To me, that s not enough, because most people don t hate what they do, they just don t get joy from what they do.
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They don t hate their wives, their husbands, they just don t get a lot of joy from the relationship.
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They don t hate the location they live in, they just don t particularly like it.
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So they re living in the mountains, but they desperately, their soul speaks to them when they re at the sea and vice versa.
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And they go, well, I don t hate the mountains.
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I just love the sea.
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And what they re doing is in that exact second, in that exact moment, they re denying themselves a part of nurturing that they need at the core to be happier, more fulfilled and have more meaning in their life than they ve ever done in the past.
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You know, that s very, very true, and the fact is, the bar of what you hate moves when you hit it.
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You might say, you know, I m not gonna sit here and work seven days a week at this job for 15 hours a day, and then you find yourself doing it, and you go, well, you know, I mean, it s not that bad.
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They give us food, and I like my coworkers well enough, you know, except when everybody s stressed out.
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And then you go through this period like I did where you go to work on a Wednesday and you come back on a Friday without sleeping.
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And you go, well, you know, it s kind of exciting.
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And then you do it again and you go, OK, this is getting old, but I don t know.
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Do I hate it enough to move and quit and get a new job and then find new friends?
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And what if I don t like my coworkers enough?
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This other fear creeps in of the unknown, which is, am I gonna get a job that pays as much?
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Am I gonna get the same type of experience and the same people around me?
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When really, those factors might not be what s important.
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You probably don t need to make $450,000 a year or whatever to get what you want out of life, but you don t wanna cut back.
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That would be seen as defeat, or it wouldn t be, by somebody else s measuring stick, wouldn t be a good idea at all.
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Yeah, but Jordan, what I d say, and I say this with respect to you, is that, and I appreciate what you re saying, and you re absolutely bang on, that s exactly what people say, but it s never time and it s never money.
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The issue is never time and never money.
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Oh, I agree with that, 100%.
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I think that s the mask that your actual fear is wearing.
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Correct.
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And people say to me things like, well, if I knew what I wanted to do, if I knew what would make me happy, if I knew what my passion was, then I d easily leave this job.
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But they use that as a reason and with respect to some extent, an excuse not to address the real core issue, which always lies below the surface.
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So do you see commonalities with the people that you work with, what these core issues and how do you uncover those?
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I ll give you an example.
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Two weeks ago, I ran a
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Clarity Retreat, and I had a group of entrepreneurs, and I want to be respectful in terms of privacy, but I m going to share a story obviously without using a name.
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And there was a gentleman in the room who has a successful business.
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So on paper, he s successful.
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It doesn t necessarily mean that he feels satisfied.
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And that is often the missing link for a lot of people.
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And basically, it became pretty apparent, he did a very good job of posturing around, not really allowing me to see the pain that he s in from continuing to be involved in this business for long periods of time, because he s convinced himself that actually the pain is not that high and his pain threshold has grown enormously with that process.
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The bottom line is, his big one was, listen, Philip, okay, let s just say hypothetically, okay, I didn t like what I do.
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And I realized that, you know, this is not serving me.
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Then what?
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I would say, well, there is no then what.
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The mistake you re making is you re not having the single most important conversation, and that is getting real with what is going on today.
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Because intellectually, you get it, but emotionally, you haven t actually joined the dots.
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And therefore, you re going to rationalize and justify to yourself that maybe it makes sense to leave your business or change your business.
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and or maybe change the way you re doing your business.
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And then tomorrow morning, you re going to wake up and you re also going to rationalize and talk yourself back out of that decision because you re going to tell me that you re doing it for your kids.
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It s only for another five years.
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It s not that bad, et cetera, et cetera.
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But if you make the emotional connection to the depth and the pain and the disconnectedness of the job or the business that you re running that doesn t serve you, you can t lie to the emotional space, but you can bullshit your brain, is my view.
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But the bottom line is, this is the point, Jordan, he said to me, but I don t know what I would do.
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And I said, let s just say I call bullshit on that.
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Let s just say you have to pick right now.
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something that you would do other than the business you re running.
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And I could see it in his face.
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And this is what I do when I m live in front of somebody, less so on a phone, I can feel what s going on.
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I can see into their eyes.
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And I know there s something else there that they re hiding from the sales in the world.
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He turns around, he says, Oh, you know, I d work with people.
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And I said, great.
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Like picking cotton in a field.
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And he goes, no, no, no, no, no.
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I d serve people a hamburgers.
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Well, he said, you re not far off.
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Think about the dragging and the energy that I had to put into dragging this out.
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And his holding on and his fear and his scaredness and his unwillingness to allow the world to see him for everything that he is, which is exhausting, pretending to be somebody that you re not, every single day.
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And he said, fine.
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He said, OK, Philip, I d open a restaurant.
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And I looked at him.
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And in that minute, I knew he knew where the restaurant was.
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And I said, what s the city?
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He mentions the city.
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I said, what s the neighborhood?
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And people are looking at me going, McKernan, how would he know this?
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And the next minute he mentions the neighborhood and then he looks at me and goes, OK, OK, OK.
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I even have the menu.
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I even have the menu.
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Wow.
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He s put all of the thought into this.
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This is his daydream.
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He s put some thought, but this is deeper than just a thought.
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He owns this.
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And I said to him, and I m really good at just being an asshole, if you want to call it that.
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And I said to him, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, sure.
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Yeah, everyone wants to open a restaurant.
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Sounds so romantic and everything else.
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And I do that on purpose because I want to know the why.
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I want to know, is this just another romantic dream?
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He goes, no, no, no, Philip.
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And he looked at me and he had a purpose behind this.
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There was a depth.
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He wants to create a community within this restaurant.
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So it was absolutely him.
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And I said, now that the so-called excuse of a lack of clarity is off the table, can we get into the real reasons that you do not want to make a transition?
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And that s the conversation that people are not having today.
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Where we first met, I saw you do this, and there was a guy who I was talking to right before your talk, maybe a couple of hours before.
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He had a super successful business, he had a great family, he had kids.
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I was thinking, this guy has it all figured out.
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And that was the guy that cried during your talk.
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And I thought, what is going on here?
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Two seconds ago, this was the happiest guy in the room.
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And you found it out and you really got right to him.
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And that surprised me a little bit because he really reacted to this.
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I feel like when you re giving talks and when you re in front of a room, no matter how big or small, you must see it in their face when you re hitting the right chords for people.
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Is that how it works with you?
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Are you spotting something in their face, in their body language?
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I can feel it.
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It s not even their body language.
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People think I study body.
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I have no interest with respect to body language.
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It s too confusing for me.
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If I m trying to figure out if someone s crossing their legs, twisting their eyes, rolling their nose, it s too intellectual for me.
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To me, it s all about feeling it out.
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The eyes don t bullshit.
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The eyes are the greatest indicator of happiness, connectiveness, success in the world, right?
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They don t lie.
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And if everyone has this ability that people think I am the only person in the world or one of the few people in this gift to really feel, but we just don t trust it.
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But I do see it and I do feel it.
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And people think,
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Well, why would I go and sit in front of you so you can extract the reality and get me to the point where perhaps you re going to expose that I m not aligned in one or more areas of our lives?
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Because I want to help you change that.
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People are so afraid of the truth.
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They think that if they get exposed, then there s nothing to do about it.
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The joy I get is not opening people up to the realization that what they re doing isn t serving them.
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The joy I get is helping and guiding them through to finding something that does.
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And when you see that, Jordan, what ends up happening is every single time people say to me, and this is the point, I never believed I could have a business that I really felt passionate about.
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I never believed I could make money doing what I love.
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I never believed I could connect with my children the way I do.
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I never believed I could have a better relationship with myself, which I thought was hokey and bullshit when I heard it.
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I never believed I could have a relationship, an intimate partnership like I have today.
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I didn t believe it existed.
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But of course you didn t believe it because you ve never experienced it.
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You ve never had that in your life.
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So your benchmark is based on what you ve given yourself historically.
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And that s the joy I get is helping people see it, get in touch with their current reality, see it, and then achieve it.
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So this is important because not only their own personal happiness slash sanity depends on it, why is this so important to you personally?
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I mean, what do you get out of it?
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Aside from it being a really interesting job for you day to day, there s gotta be more to it because this is tough.
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This has to be tough on you emotionally sometimes as well.
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You have no idea.
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It is beyond tough.
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I mean, I m literally right now, that question just goes right to my core.
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The bigger picture here is everyone around you
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We re making this whole journey about me.
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There s all these egotistical, selfish people walking the circle going, yeah, if I could just find my happiness, if I could just find my passion, if I could just do this, if I could do that.
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It s not about you.
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It s get out of your own way and think about your children.
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Think about the people around you that need a beacon of inspiration, someone to drag them out of their own bullshit.
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This is about changing generational behaviours.
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There s two types of people in the world.
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There s people who have been imprinted by their parents and generational behaviours, whether their parents have done it intentionally or not is irrelevant.
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And then you ve got other types of people who are removing the opposite, well, I m never going to be my father, never going to be my mother, I m never going to be poor, I m never going to do what my dad did to me, and so on.
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And they re the other spectrum.
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But
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But neither works because one s running from something and one is in denial of something.
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What I m asking people to do is find the place in the middle that beautifully serves you as an individual.
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But the bigger picture here is it changes the generational behaviors that we beautifully pass down to our children in ways that we can fathom and understand and in ways that we re completely and utterly unaware of.
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So the big picture here is it s not about you, it s about the people around you.
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That s interesting as well, because there s little we can do about that as kids, for example, growing up with it, and we don t give any thought to it.
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You know, when kids don t think, my family does things this way, and other families do things that way.
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I d rather be more like that.
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It s not really something that they can choose most of the time, or at least not consciously.
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No, there s not a platform that really encourages us to consider in a very respectful, safe way that perhaps what our parents have been telling us and the beliefs that we ve inherited from our parents and adopted from society perhaps don t necessarily align deeply with who we are.
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And that individuality, that piece where we can start to identify that we are unique, independently of our fingerprint, and that
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that we can carve out dreams, goals, and aspirations that belong to us and not society, that conversation is not necessarily happening in the world.
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And you have all these parents telling you, oh, yeah, yeah, I never put my kids under pressure.
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I never shout at my kids.
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I ve never asked my kid to follow my footsteps.
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But it s often the parents  silence.
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It s what the parents are not saying.
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I know a child, not a child, he s a young adult right now, is under the most extraordinary pressure.
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that he broke down and cried in front of me recently in a private setting.
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Unbelievable, just emotion.
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He can t even identify how much pressure his dad is putting on him to live vicariously through his own son.
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And his father is in complete denial.
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And he s not open to the fact that it s not what he s saying.
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It s what he s not saying is causing a lot of the pressure.
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How do you mean what he s not saying?
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For the fathers out there, for the mothers and fathers out there, can you give a little bit of an example?
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Maybe we can identify this in ourselves if we have our own kids.
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Well, I mean, I ll just give you a quick example.
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When I wanted to leave the country I love to move to North America to reinvent myself, to find this gateway of something that I knew was there, just I didn t understand it.
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So what I say is, in the absence of clarity, take action.
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When you re not clear on something, you just execute and the clarity will start to show up, good or bad.
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And when I announced to my parents that I was heading to North America and I wanted to live this dream or follow this aspiration of speaking and connecting with people, my mom didn t say, that s a stupid idea, don t do it.
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She said, great.
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Wow.
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That ll be, that ll be, um, that s really interesting.
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She said exactly that.
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She didn t necessarily see it.
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She didn t agree with
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that she didn t approve, but she never used the actual words.
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For example, if I use a story that I sometimes relate to, every other story I always refer to is true, but I made this one up to illustrate.
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Johnny comes down for breakfast, sits in front of his father, and his father is determined he s not going to be one of those parents that tell his kids what to do.
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I said, now, Johnny, you re going today to choose your career path or your college.
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You do whatever you want.
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Now, your grandfather was a policeman, and I m a policeman, and that would have been nice, but you do whatever you want.
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I m not going to be one of those fathers that tell you what you should and shouldn t do.
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And basically what his father has done in Johnny s eyes is he s basically said, but I d love you more and I d appreciate you more.
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and I d accept you more and I d be prouder if you did become a policeman.
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Right, right, right.
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And he has no idea he s done that.
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Because you see, we are obsessed by what other people think or feel about us.
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And if you take our parents, you can multiply that by a thousand.
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Like you said to yourself, I wanted my parents to be proud of me, I wanted that validation, I wanted that.
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And we will literally live entire existences, build entire empires, entire businesses, because we are seeking the validation of people around us.
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and most people would be in complete denial of that reality.
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This is very true and I can see this happening subconsciously.
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In fact, going back to what you were saying before about people are very rare to question, set up their own goals, set up their own lifestyle.
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I feel like the generation that s getting the most flack right now, naturally the youngest one, millennials, are some of the best at this actually.
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But they also get shat on for it, big time, all of the time.
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They try to set up their own goals, their own measuring sticks, and their own sort of definitions of success, if you will.
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And that s, I think, what bugs people older than them so much, a lot of the time.
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Totally, it s a revolution.
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you can attempt to tie people down in an emotional way, in a religious context, or any other way.
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It s like a revolution.
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And these kids are often going the opposite direction.
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And I say kids, these young adults, these young men and women are going the opposite direction to prove something that almost someone said you can t be done.
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So that drive to do something that somebody said you can t do can serve us to do extraordinary things.
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but it doesn t necessarily always mean that we re deeply aligned to the thing that we re actually doing.
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And it s not Jordan until years later sometimes that we realize the very thing that we ve been convincing ourselves and telling ourselves, and it s always intellectually, it s always in our mind, isn t actually serving us.
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And often I believe that
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In the end of the day, if you want to be deeply aligned, if you want to be connected, if you want to have meaning in your life, I think simplicity is one of the gateways into that simplicity in our lives in general.
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Because today it s not sexy unless you own two or maybe even three businesses or four businesses, multiple streams of income and loads of complexity.
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And we tell ourselves, oh, yeah, well, I m not involved in that business.
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I don t have to make even a phone call in that business.
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My time in that business is 30 minutes a month.
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And we tell ourselves these bullshit lies because it s not 30 minutes.
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It s 30 physical minutes, but how much emotion, how much mental bandwidth do you have to execute every month into that external business, that so-called passive?
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So it s about simplicity.
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It s about aligning to work that means something.
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If you choose that, if you don t, this is a choice.
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People think that I m this dictator that tells everyone you have to do this, you have to, no.
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But then don t expect to be happy.
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Don t expect to have meaning.
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Don t expect to get to the top of that mountain and get to the top of that summit and look around and feel that beautiful fulfillment that you get from doing things of meaning.
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And if you wonder why you ve got that emptiness at the end of your life, whether it s the last breaths you take, or when you hit that midlife crisis, which is another illusion of life,
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and you have that empty feeling, that s what you re gonna get.
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So just be aware that if you don t align yourself, there s gonna be a cost, and now it s a choice.
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That s all this is, is a choice.
2
SPEAKER_03
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2
SPEAKER_02
How many people do you meet out and about, just out in the world that are already doing this right?
2
SPEAKER_02
Because it seems like so many people, this has to be one of the most common afflictions of the Western slash human condition, is not doing work that we actually love, enjoy, that we actually find serve us.
2
SPEAKER_02
It has to be one of the most common things that you see, that we see anywhere.
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SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
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And that s what I dedicated the rest of my life to helping people wake up.
2
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The people who want to be woken up.
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I used to try and save everybody.
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SPEAKER_00
And now I realize there s people that would sit in front of me and travel thousands of miles and give me thousands of dollars for the clarity and the understanding and the insights that they don t actually want in the first place because they re so familiar with that victim mentality.
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SPEAKER_00
They re so familiar
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and comfortable in the not knowing and the misalignment that has become normal to them.
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SPEAKER_00
So for example, professional athletes in Britain, some of these athletes are paid over $100,000 a week to play sport.
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SPEAKER_00
And the stats show that within three years of leaving a particular sport like soccer, many of them have lost all of their wealth.
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lottery winners lose their wealth.
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And it s not because they don t know how to handle money, because they ve got all the advice around them, all these advisors, is that their relationship to money is deeply dysfunctional.
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And what ultimately they do is they go back to what they know, they go back to what they re familiar with, they ll go back to what they re used to, like a salmon that will go for thousands of miles and swim up a bloody stream that s coming against them, as opposed to laying their eggs somewhere else, because that s what they know.
2
SPEAKER_00
So an inherent desire to go back to what we know is so deep, unless we take the time to stop and understand that that s where we re going, unless we have the courage and the belief to step out and change it for once and for all.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I want to share something very quickly.
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I met a man recently, again it was a few weeks ago, this retreat, he s done some work.
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Now I m not trying to take credit for this because it would be so wrong of me to do that, but he gives me a lot of credit for this.
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And when I met him less than a year ago,
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He basically said to me that his number one goal of the work that he s going to do with me in this retreat capacity was he wanted to leverage his business.
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He wanted to grow his business.
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That was his single
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it turned out that there was multiple layers of challenges in his personal life that were affecting his ability to really enjoy life.
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And his goal or his answer to that is just getting busy in his business, as a lot of us do, because we think we either lose ourselves in our business, we hide in our business, or we think if we have enough business and enough money, then our problems will be solved.
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And in the last 12 months, we focused on pretty much nothing.
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to do with his business.
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We ve dealt with relationships with his father and his mother in the context of the business that he runs, his relationship at home, his relationship with himself, his relationship with his kids, all of these things off the ice.
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His business is up 80%. 80%.
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he is exploding, and he would put a lot of it down to the work that we did.
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While we didn t focus directly on the strategy and the tactics, by working on him, he became way more engaged, clearer strategically and tactically about what he wants to do in his business.
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So that s the power of actually taking a step back and working on our lives off the ice, as well as all of the energy and focus that everybody puts into their business every single day.
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I m not asking us to close down our business and turn our back.
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I m just asking us for the 100% energy that we put into our business.
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Or the 80 grand that we put into business coaching and strategy and all that kind of stuff is take a portion of that time, money or energy and put it into who you are personally and what you want from this world.
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And I promise your business would benefit from doing so.
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What s the top excuse that you get from people?
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I mean, I feel like people will just say, look, I m too busy to focus on this.
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I can t just.
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unravel everything.
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I ve got too much going on.
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You and I talked pre-show about complexity in our lives and just having this become like a disease in our lives that we don t even realize how complex our lives have become.
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I would love it if you d speak to that.
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I think that s powerful.
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Uh, you ve nailed something.
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And even with respect, Jordan, I d love to sit here and say my life is not complex.
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I d love to give you that beautiful line because I m the guy that s meant to have my shit completed together.
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My life is too complex.
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And I love what I do.
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I love what I do so much.
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I layer in things and I tell myself this story that it all makes sense, but it doesn t make sense.
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I get that.
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I come back, but at least to be fair, I m aware of it.
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And that means that s half the battle.
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And now I can start making adjustments, which I ve already started to do, is complexity and busyness.
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Think about it in a really weird, almost counterintuitive way.
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What is the upside of busyness?
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What is the upside of complexity?
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We get a lot, well, numbing agent, actually.
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It s like alcohol, it s like marijuana, it s like whatever.
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It s a numbing, it prevents us and allows us not to stop and face the pain of our reality and our existence.
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It s basically a way of not feeling, because we re living in our heads more and more and more.
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And that to me is the greatest human challenge we have today.
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SPEAKER_01
We live in the information age.
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we need to move to really, the big leap needs to be to the feeling age, and people think that s new world and everything, that s not what I m talking about.
3
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I m talking about, you know, transcending into wisdom, into awareness, and really a sense of feeling as opposed to intellectually understanding everything.
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Because if you can find a place in your life, not just to put a value on intellectual clarity, but intuitive clarity in addition to that,
3
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which I think as an entrepreneur, for example, as well as everybody else, is one of the greatest inherent gifts that we all have.
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The ability to sit in front of somebody and say, Hey, I want to spend the rest of my life with you.
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Hey, I don t want to spend the rest of my life with you in a business context.
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SPEAKER_01
Hey, this deal feels right.
3
SPEAKER_01
Not just does the numbers make sense.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because I know so many business owners right now, clients of mine made money very, very well.
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I ve helped them and supported them grow in a business, but they haven t got the satisfaction from the business that they thought they would get.
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SPEAKER_00
Now this makes a lot of sense, especially as complexity as a numbing agent.
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I think we ve become so complex, just everybody, especially those of us that I know, especially in the entrepreneur circle, we don t even realize it.
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SPEAKER_00
It s like the boiling frog analogy where you slow cook the frog in the pot.
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SPEAKER_00
It s a really gross analogy.
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SPEAKER_00
If you turn up the heat right away or you throw it in the water already, it ll jump out.
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SPEAKER_00
If you throw it in the cool water and you turn it up, I m ruining this analogy.
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SPEAKER_00
But it ll stay in there and boil, right?
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You know what I m talking about?
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SPEAKER_01
I get it, yeah, absolutely.
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I love what that analogy represents, as gross as it is.
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And I think sometimes we need it to be gross.
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I remember a guy standing in front of me one day and I said, you know what, rather than just sitting here trying to tell me what you do, get up on the board, and I had a massive whiteboard in this particular meeting room, and I said, just draw out everything in your life.
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I swear to God, by the time you finished, I felt exhausted.
3
SPEAKER_01
I felt just drained by the complexity.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then he turns around and with absolute precision,
3
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and a dynamic, almost like intellectual ownership that was so brilliant.
3
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He starts to explain how all of it made sense and how it all complements each other element of the complexity.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I looked at him and he was so good at telling himself this story that he had me leaning in and going, okay, okay, fair, okay, fair enough.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it was almost like somebody gave me a virtual slap in the face.
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are through a bucket of water in my face in a virtual way.
3
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I just woke up and I just said to myself, hang on a second.
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I said, it looks like a budgie flew at that board at a million miles an hour and exploded all over the board.
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I know that s a disgusting analogy as well.
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And exploded it.
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How can you tell me that this is not complex?
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How can you tell me there s not a cost?
3
SPEAKER_01
What is the cost to this?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because that s ultimately where I went with him because unless he understands the cost and feels the cost,
3
SPEAKER_01
Because he can turn around intellectually, think about this, intellectually go, OK, yeah, maybe I could be more connected to my kids.
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SPEAKER_01
OK, maybe, maybe I need to take more time.
3
SPEAKER_01
OK, maybe I can see if I keep doing this, my health.
3
SPEAKER_01
We all know intellectually what the problem is.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s why diet books and nutritional books and everything else, information is not the excuse we can use anymore because there s so much of it out there.
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SPEAKER_01
There s too much of it out there.
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The problem is that he hasn t connected with the pain emotionally and he hasn t looked at this board and said,
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SPEAKER_01
You know what, Johnny is four years old, my son.
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SPEAKER_01
And honestly, I can t even remember the last four years.
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SPEAKER_01
My wife and myself know each other.
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We have a good relationship.
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I tell myself we have a great relationship, but I know really deep down we don t.
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SPEAKER_01
As for connecting with myself and taking time for me, I don t do that because I feel guilty.
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SPEAKER_01
I m on the golf course and I feel guilty.
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SPEAKER_01
I should be in the office.
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SPEAKER_01
So like, that s the difference.
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SPEAKER_01
And this guy today, if he was on this call, and you said, Hey, let s go to this guy and find out what is that he would have said, I m telling you right now, you ve no idea how complex I was.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the cost of that lifestyle was obscene and ridiculous.
3
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And he made the adjustments.
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And here s the interesting thing, Jordan, he made the adjustments, and his business grew.
3
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We re always afraid that if we make these adjustments, our desire and our need for money and our desire for success and all these things is gonna diminish.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s not the case.
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SPEAKER_00
I can vouch for that, personally.
3
SPEAKER_00
People told me to take care of myself more and more and more.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is a few years back.
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I was like, no way.
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SPEAKER_00
I gotta work 15 hours a day.
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I gotta do every element of my business myself.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it wasn t just finding the value of outsourcing this or lightening the load somewhat.
3
SPEAKER_00
I would take time and make sure that I could exercise.
3
SPEAKER_00
I would hire a trainer and I would treat that time for myself and for my friends like business meetings.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it was hard because I definitely was that guy who was on a proverbial golf course feeling like he should be in the office.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I would make more work for myself if I didn t have anything to do just to feel like I was working because that was my default mode of this is what I need to be doing.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it was killing me for sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
back and shoulder and neck pain from stress, and I wasn t sleeping well, and I was waking up wishing I was working at the post office or something like that, because it would be less stressful than what I was doing, and I hated my business.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so once I started to actually take care of myself, by force, this wasn t some grand idea I had, this was my friends saying, if you don t do this, you re gonna die young, literally.
3
SPEAKER_00
My parents, same thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
I finally did that, and things started to increase exponentially here at AOC.
3
SPEAKER_00
My business partner, same thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
We were just workaholics, because we grew up in Michigan.
3
SPEAKER_00
Our fathers were auto industry.
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SPEAKER_00
That s what you did.
3
SPEAKER_00
And taking care of ourselves is still kind of something I have to force myself to do, but now it s become easier because I see the actual return on that investment, not only in terms of my health, but in terms of my business, which still sucks me in from time to time.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think the evolution, the ultimate evolution for anybody, and I won t necessarily personalize this, but anybody who feels they have to get up and go to the gym, they have to do this, they have to do that, they have to, I think there s a place where you can get to where you actually feel that you want to.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I know people say it s the same thing, and it s not.
3
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes you need to feel you have to do something in order to get to that place.
3
SPEAKER_01
But like, for example, and again, I m not trying to pretend here on this call that I m perfect in any shape or form, but
3
SPEAKER_01
The first thing that goes into my bag now when I open up my case and I m going on a travel trip, the first thing that goes into my sports gear, not because I feel I need to or because it s stinky and it needs to be at the bottom of the bag or any other reason for that, it s because I actually want, and for years I was trying to force myself to go to the gym and I put myself under all sorts of accountability techniques and everything else.
3
SPEAKER_01
But when you can shift the internal value and you can start to shift that, what ends up happening is, because I believe as a saying that if there was one saying, apart from many quotes that I create, is that we give ourselves what we feel we deserve.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m a huge advocate of that statement because I think when we have a relationship that s good, that s what we think we deserve.
3
SPEAKER_01
But what about if it s possible a relationship could be great?
3
SPEAKER_01
And everybody I meet pretty much in a relationship that has a decent relationship will tell me the relationship is fantastic.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I work with couples and it s the hardest single sell of anything I ve ever done.
3
SPEAKER_01
And sell is the wrong word, but I use that intentionally, is people don t see the value in going away and spending a few, two or three or four days in a relationship.
3
SPEAKER_01
they don t see the value in that because they think what they have is great.
3
SPEAKER_01
And they re so mistaken.
3
SPEAKER_01
99% of the time they have a good relationship, but the depth that s available for them is beyond anything they can fathom.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the reason for that is very simple, is because all you know is what you ve been through.
3
SPEAKER_01
All you know is what you witnessed in the world.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that is our benchmark, whether we like it or not.
3
SPEAKER_01
And what I want to do is get rid of that bar, get rid of that benchmark, and let go of chasing these opportunities to deepen relationships and get more meaningful work and blow the top off our business.
3
SPEAKER_01
and look at the possibilities.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the possibilities are often things that lie outside of the peripheral, but we re so focused and attached, we re so insecure, a lot of us in the world today, that we hold on to these goals and we grab hold of them so tight and we squeeze them so tight they don t have a chance to breathe.
3
SPEAKER_01
But what if you let go and trust that it ll unfold, but the possibilities that come into your life are unbelievable.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s what I find with people is when they can let go, they see ways of living and doing business, making money, creating an impact and deepening relationships that were so outside of anything they believed was possible before.
3
SPEAKER_01
Now, does this fit people who aren t just entrepreneurs because of there s so many people
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listening, probably the majority of my audience is on their way to work right now and they re like, ah, this doesn t really apply to me.
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I can t just change my business.
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I work for a corporation.
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I work for Procter & Gamble.
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I can t change Procter & Gamble.
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This is a human issue.
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This is not an entrepreneurship issue.
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And in fact, you know, I think to some extent we are so
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wrong in the world to kind of like label every like, you know, for example, this unspoken thing, you know, in society, and you may agree or disagree with it, is that really ultimately, Jordan, let s cut to the shit, like really, if you want to be successful, you got to own your own business.
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I mean, if you re just driving to work with Procter and Gamble, I mean, you re not successful, really.
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And there s that underlying unspoken thing about entrepreneurship, which I think is complete horseshit.
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I think that anybody in this world, this message applies to.
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This is about your business.
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This is about your life.
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This is about your job.
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This is about anything.
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And this is a human challenge.
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When I do work with the U.S.
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military, I work with the Olympic athletes.
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I work with mom and pops who have no money or very little money.
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They want more money.
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The same principles apply right across the road, which is a great thing and a challenge for me because I don t niche down to just working with one element of society.
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So just to clarify, you think society believes that you re not successful if you don t own your own business or you think that you can t be successful unless you own your own business?
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No, no, no.
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I believe you can be successful with owning or not owning your own business.
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I think there s this unspoken thing in society, this unspoken feeling or sense that really you need to be an entrepreneur to be really happy.
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And yet most entrepreneurs open up their businesses and the reason they tell you they re opening up their own business is because they want freedom.
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Most entrepreneurs I meet don t have the freedom that they set out to get in the first place.
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They just don t have it.
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They tell themselves they have it.
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I m an entrepreneur because I want freedom.
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And I look at them and say, do you really have freedom?
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Because you look like you re in a cage of emotion and mental and even physically what you ve created around you.
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You re in a cage right now, my friend.
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Yeah, no the sales pitch the marketing says look at me I can work from the beach and the reality says look at me I have to fucking work from the beach Absolutely, and it s totally different when you re in it once you get to people go.
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I must be so nice You know you re at the quote-unquote like
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top conference talking about being an entrepreneur, and I m thinking, yeah, and I was just in my hotel room all morning while you were at the pool, because you re on vacation, checking my email.
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Tons of crap hit the fan in the morning, and I m going to spend my lunch hour talking to our corporate attorneys.
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You know, it s not always like that.
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I love running my own business, but it s like that a lot.
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I think the indicator is for any entrepreneur listening, by the way, and any person who s not an entrepreneur listening is that if you re a business owner, and you re sitting in Mexico and you re off for two weeks, can you actually do that without checking your email?
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Can you do that without feeling that knot in your stomach that actually you need to be checking your email, you need to be checking into the office?
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Or is the guilt
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that you feel for not actually working completely absent.
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If none of those are the case, well, then you re not free at all.
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Freedom comes from a peace of mind.
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It comes from just a peace of mind and knowing that actually everything s okay.
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It s not an arrogance, I know it all.
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It s just a knowing.
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And your peace of mind or lack of peace of mind is an indicator to misalignment in your life.
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If you don t have peace of mind, it s your body, it s your soul, it s your
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screaming at you, hey buddy, you keep telling yourself this is okay, but it s not.
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It s not.
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You re out of alignment in some aspect of your life.
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My job is to understand, is help people understand where, identify where they re out of alignment and help them make that transition.
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But there s a lot of people today, Jordan, that don t want to do that.
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Well, I think it s scary to do that and I also think that especially in the states and probably elsewhere I don t want to speak for Canada and Europe because I m just maybe not as well versed But we wear this like a badge of honor.
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This is like look.
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I m so busy.
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I don t only not only have time for you I don t have time for myself
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Absolutely bang on.
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It s kind of the bigger that pat on the back is, and I grew up with that.
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My dad wasn t even some kind of Wall Street attorney guy, and I ve seen that happen in that culture too.
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He worked at Ford, and his dad was basically like, my grandpa was basically like a janitor at Ford, and he was just, I m so busy, I m working so hard, and that was what you did for your family back then, but that s toxic, and it carries over, that survival mindset almost carries over into our lives now when we don t really need it.
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No, we don t.
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And I think the other thing is that, you know, if you were to ask most people in that situation, they re not doing it out of vindictive, you know, kind of desire towards themselves or other people.
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But I mean, if you asked me, you said, turn around, okay, listen, you ve got a kid, okay, and your kid s six.
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So fast forward the conversation, 15, 20 years, you know, what would you say to your kid in 15 or 20 years that s in your situation?
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And most of them would say, God, don t drive to Procter and Gamble.
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And we just use that as an example.
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every day if you don t enjoy it, if you don t love it, you don t have to hate it in order to do something, you ve got to do something, you ve got to don t do that to yourself, don t put up with a relationship that doesn t serve you.
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If you don t feel respected and you don t respect yourself, do something about it.
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But the challenge is that we don t necessarily believe that we re in a position to do that.
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Some people feel hopeless in that regard.
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Some people feel that they don t deserve it, which is more common than you might believe.
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And then some people are using the reasons are stroke excuses of, I don t know what else I would do as a reason not to do it.
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And the other thing that people are doing is they re building lifestyles.
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So, for example, someone will say, OK, I don t like my job.
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I know that for certain.
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I want to change.
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But how do I change and make sure that I keep the same lifestyle for myself and my family?
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So the car, the holiday to Hawaii, the house or maybe the cottage or whatever, that s now taken precedence over your own sanity and over your own happiness and over your own emotional state.
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Yeah, I think most people out there would rather have a happy, contented, sane partner than a car with leather seats versus fabric seats.
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I would hope.
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Absolutely.
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And we re looking at a physical move.
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It s the first time I ve said it publicly, but we re looking at a physical move from where we are right now.
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And my brother said to my wife recently, just literally last week, said, but what about the kids?
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And she said, we re okay.
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The kids are going to be okay.
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Other people are saying, well, what about the school?
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It s all about the schools.
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It s all about finding a place.
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And I said, no, because you believe education is really important.
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And by the way, how does it work for you?
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Are you loving what you re doing?
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Did education bring you to a place that you absolutely love?
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To me, I said, the schools are a slight consideration.
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It s where do we want to live to nurture ourselves?
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Where do we want to live so we, the parents, are independently and collectively in a better place?
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So our children are brought up in an environment of inspiration and connection and love and not dependent on this education system or other external factors that may or may not even support us.
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We re becoming obsessed
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with living our lives for our children.
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And what we re missing is that our children are brought up in an environment where they don t get inspired every day about the simple things in life, about just connecting and being inspired and seeing the possibility that actually maybe
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you could do something that you want to do.
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The military, when they re helping people transition from the military world into the civilian world, the only thing they re telling the men and women to do is, is to find a job or go back to school.
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There is zero conversation, absolutely zero conversation about, oh, by the way, if you can do that and find something you want to do, like actually find a job that you enjoy, that d be kind of cool, or go to school and find something you enjoy, or open a business that you enjoy.
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The idea that you could possibly enjoy it, or dare I say love it,
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That s not even in the conversation.
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Yeah, it doesn t exist, right, absolutely.
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It s because it s so far down the line of priorities that it becomes invisible.
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I have to ask, though, when you got this clarity, or when you started to get this clarity, for example, that conversation you said you had with, was it your brother or your neighbor?
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I can t remember now.
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The brother.
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Yeah, I mean.
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Has this type of new outlook, this new mindset, or as you mentioned in your talk, the soul set, has this cost you relationships personally?
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Because some people don t want to look in that mirror, they can t.
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And seeing you do it might actually be pretty painful for those that don t want to take the leap or do the thinking.
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Well, it s funny, I m sitting here smiling.
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As you ask that question, I don t go to a sad place.
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I go to a beautiful, honest to God, happy place because has it cost me?
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No.
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I have won.
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I now, and this might sound really, you know, the wheels completely fall off here for the skeptics and the people who don t like the hokiness.
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Okay, the wheels are going to completely fall off right now.
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I now have a relationship with myself, Jordan, that I don t need and have to have a relationship with somebody else to validate who I am.
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I have the best, like I have a challenging relationship in the last 12 months because we ve had some really challenging conversations that we re breaking through to that deeper level of conversation and insecurities come and everything else.
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But I have a relationship with my wife that I never ever believed could have been possible.
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I m more connected, I m not the father I want to be, and I m hard on myself in that regard, but I have a relationship with my children that I never could have imagined, and by the way with my own father as well.
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I had the most vulnerable conversation with my older brother that I didn t even believe was possible to the point where he came to Canada to spend a week with us and we had
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real dialogue that we d never had in the previous 20 years.
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And has it cost in terms of like this?
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No, I have won all the way around.
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And if a relationship was in my life that was stagnant or stale or shouldn t have been there and it s not there, that s a success.
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We can t even look at relationships, and I said this at an event, maybe you were there, Jordan, where we use the words failure or broken home.
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I had a failed marriage and I come from a broken home when it comes to contextualising a marriage that didn t work out.
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you
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To me, that s a success.
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If you discover, I don t want people to divorce, I don t want people to enter into relationships that don t work, absolutely not.
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But if you re at a point where the relationship is so bad, or it s not serving you, and therefore your wife or husband, and therefore your children, why can t you just move away from it and not
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use it as a label to determine who you are going to be for the rest of your life.
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That I come from a broken home, which is basically saying, basically emotionally saying, and therefore I m broken.
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I actually had a failed marriage, so therefore I m partly a failure.
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As opposed to repositioning that and saying, hey, hang on a second, I have the courage to step away.
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We have the courage to step away from something that simply was not working.
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And that takes a lot, and I think there s an equal or similar relationship that business owners maybe have with their employees and their partners.
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I mean, going back to the busyness angle, what if we take care of, this is maybe a little devil s advocate or whatever you want to call it, what if we re taking care of a lot of people?
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How do we then systemize taking care of ourselves, or do we not want to systemize it?
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I mean, how do we solve this problem when it involves other people s well-being and not just our own?
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What I ve heard from other entrepreneurs and business owners is they say, look, man, yeah, that s all fine and good when you re 30 and you don t have any kids, but try having kids.
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Try having employees whose welfare is all about you.
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You re telling me I m gonna go ride a bike in the morning when I could be working, da-da-da-da, working for them and improving their, and it s just, it s another layer of excuses, but I ll say, right now, it becomes pretty convincing to a lot of folks, and it sounds pretty good.
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You re selfless, you re taking care of other people.
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Yeah, I think actually people who don t do that are selfish.
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And I don t want people to get off the call here and think this is about taking it.
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I don t think that s what you re suggesting, that it s just about taking an hour for a bike ride.
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It s what the bike ride represents, is do you have enough respect for yourself to give yourself an hour in the morning to go for a bike ride, not because you feel you should do it because people are watching, but because you actually want to do it.
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This is a deep value proposition within ourselves.
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If we put a value on ourselves, we will not do work.
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We will not surround ourselves with people.
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We will not give ourselves overwhelming responsibilities to the point where it s detrimentally affecting the rest of my life.
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The reason divorce is so high in so many facets of life today is because people are becoming disconnected with their relationships.
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Often it s because they re disconnected with themselves.
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They don t wake up one morning and say, hey, by the way, I got married yesterday.
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This is this relationship.
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I m going to set a goal that I m going to be divorced in five or 10 or 15 years.
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No one does that.
5
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But what ends up happens, they wake up and before you know it, this little tiny gap, maybe it s an inch, maybe it s two inches, and then it becomes four inches and five inches and six inches.
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So the entrepreneur, they re sitting there going, by the way, they ve already turned this audio off and
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Yeah, they re not listening anymore.
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They re gone.
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Now, maybe their partner is still listening and going, holy shit, if he or she, and it s generally the man with respect, because proportionally there s a lot more men in business and higher up the chains, right or wrong, that s just reality of it.
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If they were listening to this, they really should be, but they don t want to listen to it because they don t want to face something they already deeply know deep down because they don t want to admit that they ve already failed.
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Somebody said to me the other day,
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He has a business on the side and he also has a day job, full-time day job, two full-time jobs.
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And he said, the reason I don t want to leave is I love the paycheck and it s important to me and the security.
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And I said, bullshit, you re asking yourself the wrong questions.
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You re having the wrong conversation.
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Why do you not want to leave really?
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And he was rationalizing, justifying that the reason he doesn t want to leave his day job and step into this business is he doesn t want it to fail.
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He
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didn t want to put all his eggs in one basket and for it to actually fall apart and fail publicly.
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Yet the numbers are suggesting that it s doing anything but failing.
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I said, well, you re making an assumption that you re not already failing.
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You re failing yourself.
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And I don t like that word, but like that s just the word he used.
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You re failing yourself every single day.
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You ve got new twins on the way.
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You ve got a wife that you re failing every single day.
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It can t be any worse.
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And the only person that can t see that is you.
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And here s the interesting thing about this man, this is another reason that would create complexity.
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He says, now he s a beautiful human being, he s not like a manipulative individual, but he s ended up creating a story that is somewhat manipulative to keep himself in a situation that doesn t serve him.
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So he says to me, okay, it s money.
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And I say, great, so tell me about your financial situation.
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What happens, he s just bought a bigger house, and used all his savings as a down payment on this bigger house, just
5
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when he has this brilliant opportunity to leave his job because he wants to create enough complexity and rationale that he doesn t have to change.
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SPEAKER_01
Right.
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The golden handcuffs are mighty attractive sometimes.
5
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But we move the goalposts.
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I m going to leave in a year.
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I m going to leave in two years.
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I m going to leave in five years.
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I m going to leave in whatever.
5
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And the goalposts change because we believe, we convince ourselves that the finish line is just another 20 yards, another 30 yards.
5
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And the next minute we re 10 years older and we re a little bit older and maybe we have more weight and we haven t actually dealt with the real issue.
5
SPEAKER_01
Alright, back to the show.
5
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Now, how do we get out of this rut?
5
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I mean, we ve spent a little bit of time talking about that, but I would love to go back to the application.
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You talk a lot in your work about intuition and listening to the voice that you have inside your head versus the voice that society has versus the voice that your family has versus the voice that you surround yourself with.
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You know, if you re a small business owner, for example, speak to that because this is kind of the solution to this problem.
5
SPEAKER_00
It is definitely part of the solution, but it s not the voice inside your head because that s your mind.
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So it s actually deeper than that because your thought is your mind s voice.
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As I put a quote out today on Facebook, your thoughts are your mind s voice.
5
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Your intuition is your soul speaking.
5
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Now, I don t want to get into a big, long debate with somebody who would be a doctor or somebody that would say, listen, that s just actually physically, it s a feeling, right?
5
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How I would determine that is there s intellectual clarity or understanding something intellectually and then feeling something that often doesn t make any sense.
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And there is not a listener, I believe, and this is a big bold statement maybe, and maybe it s not my place to say, but there s not a listener listening to this right now that hasn t had a situation where they trusted their gut, despite the fact that intellectually it may not have even made sense.
5
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And I guarantee you it worked out.
5
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There s everybody in this call, everybody listening to this podcast has had a situation where they have had an intuitive feeling that they overrode it with their intellect, and they chose not to act from an intuitive place, and they ignore their intuition.
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They acted upon it, whether it s in a business relationship, a personal relationship, a job, a house or whatever it was, and they kind of regret it.
5
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The power of that intuition is that it speaks to you at such a deep level, it s basically calling you, it s a longing.
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And what it does is it has this incredible ability to bring you into environments that simply work for you, not everybody else.
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It s your unique blueprint, and it is an internal compass that we re all born with as a kid.
5
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We trusted less and less and less and less as we move further up into our heads, as we move through society, and we intellectualize so much stuff, and that s why information is consumed at such an accelerated rate today.
5
SPEAKER_00
And we need to reverse that to a point, not completely, but we need to reverse it to a point where we can create a space to give the intuition a place in our lives, but it has no place when we re over busy and we don t have a value on it.
5
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and use the intellect to act upon it.
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In other words, the intellect is the computer, the intuition is just the choice, and then we use the computer to help us break it down strategically or tactically to implement it, if that makes any sense.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s high level, but it does make sense.
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SPEAKER_01
My question becomes, intuition, obviously, this is something everybody has, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
Is that up for debate?
5
SPEAKER_00
No, I believe everyone has it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right, okay, so,
5
SPEAKER_01
What inhibits that then?
5
SPEAKER_01
Because if everyone has it, why isn t everybody just going, oh, well, you know, my intuition says this, so that s what s happening.
5
SPEAKER_00
Okay, well, we ve been often, we ve been conditioned so deeply.
5
SPEAKER_00
So the man who has the job, for example, I met him two weeks ago, the guy who has the full-time job and the full-time, he lives in his head, and I quote, he said, by the way, my wife has a message for you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Let Philip know that you re dealing with a Vulcan.
5
SPEAKER_01
What does that mean?
5
SPEAKER_00
A Vulcan is a character in Star Trek, a Vulcan like a Spock.
5
SPEAKER_00
Spock is a Vulcan, and for those of you who don t know Star Trek, it s a person that intellectualizes everything and has no emotion at all.
5
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Basically, they just purely intellectually live.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s like a brain walking around the world with no body, which turns out not to be the case because he s far from a Vulcan because he s human and therefore he has emotion.
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He s just not in touch with it because from a very early age, for two reasons,
5
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One is to protect himself.
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He lives in his head because he doesn t want to feel emotionally because he was brought up in an environment that was very tough.
5
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So one of the greatest ways not to feel pain is not to feel.
5
SPEAKER_00
We move into our brains, move into our heads, and we stay there because it protects us.
5
SPEAKER_00
Now, it s an illusion that we create, but that s part of the reason.
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Number one.
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Number two is that the world rewards us so deeply in society today from our schooling.
5
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And think about how many hours we all spend in school in the traditional system.
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SPEAKER_00
it rewards us and pushes us into an intellectual space, not to speak about emotion.
5
SPEAKER_00
So for example, my six year old boy came back with a little goal setting thing the other day from school, like yesterday, and we had a goal setting meeting last night.
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SPEAKER_00
And it s all about intellectualizing, you know, goals.
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And the teacher said, Do you have anything to add?
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And I said, Well, the one thing I d love to do is just
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create a situation where Charlie s happy to share how he feels as opposed to just the intellect.
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Like if he feels angry, if he feels annoyed, if he feels happy, is to be able to get in touch with that and own that and feel safe to share that and share
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She looked at me and went, what, yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah, what are you talking about, yeah.
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But that s not in the curriculum, that s not in the space.
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So we re being pushed into our heads, and the more information we consume, the more we stay in our heads.
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So I m just saying that if we could just drop down from that place a little bit, I think we would get more in touch with our intuition.
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The other thing that prevents us from feeding intuition as well as some of the emotional inhibitors like anger, you know, anger is massively prevalent, guilt, shame, all of these things that we feel and we hold.
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And there are absolute blocks.
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The biggest block to intuition, I believe, is anger.
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And anger is also one of those things in society that, God, we can t talk about that.
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Yet everyone has it.
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And we misunderstand the depth and societally we judge anger.
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We think it s this negative force that everybody has.
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That s interesting.
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Does this have a place in business too?
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Because it seems to me like intuition seems like we purposely get away from this.
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You know, don t let your emotions affect your decisions and don t let this affect that.
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And intuition should be separated from that, it sounds like, from what you re saying.
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However, it seems like intuition s place is almost especially in business.
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Especially in business.
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And I had a conversation the other day with a business owner.
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It was a three million dollar conversation.
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a $3 million conversation, whether this person pulled the trigger on this deal or didn t pull the trigger on the deal, $3 million conversation.
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And 98% if not 99% of our dialogue was nothing to do with strategy and nothing to do with tactics.
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It was all about
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What do you want from this?
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What do you want from life?
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Reminding this person who they are, what they want, some of the complexities they created before, and these deep rooted patterns.
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So for example, if you have somebody who s bad on time management, and are complexity, and you train them purely from an intellectual standpoint of how to prioritize and how to outsource and all these things and how to say no 50 times in a row.
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I guarantee you pretty much within six months time, they ll be back to the same pattern.
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Because the pattern is so built within them, it s so familiar that they find themselves moving back towards the chaos, moving back towards the lack of time management, etc.
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And the same principle here is this lady has spent a lot of time with me, dismantling the complexity, building our business, dismantling the complexity.
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And she s posed with a decision-making process around a $3 million opportunity.
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And she s about to pull the trigger and she comes into the conversation telling me strategically and tactically why this makes total sense.
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And I said, great, and maybe it does, but let me remind you what I m here to do.
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My job is to ground you.
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My job is to get you in touch with who you are, where you want to go, the dreams and aspirations you have as an individual first, and business second.
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And your business should have no other function other than to serve that.
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Not just to provide you with the revenue, but to serve you personally.
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And by the end of the conversation, she goes, this decision is not a good idea.
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And I said, well, if that s what you feel.
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And she goes, I know it s not a good idea.
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She didn t execute it on us.
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And she said to me literally weeks later, she goes, oh my God, if I had executed on that, I would have been back to all the complexity that I ve worked so hard to get away from.
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and it was all about intuition.
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Perfect.
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Thank you so much, Philip, for your time and for your expertise and your wisdom here.
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Gained somewhat the hard way over a long period of time.
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Is there anything else that I haven t asked you that you want to make sure that you hammer home for the audience?
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Obviously, we ll link to your work in the show notes as well.
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Yeah, I think where I sit in the context of the work I do is I just sit in this space where people find it hard to intellectualize it, and they re always looking for the doing, the doing, the doing, because we ve been trained so deeply into the five steps of success and the 15 books you should read and the four things you have to do.
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And I think that, you know, when it comes to, you know, emotion and when it comes to real meaning and when it comes to happiness, it s not as simple and it s not as tangible as that.
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And the reason I know that is because the world is probably more disconnected now than it s ever been.
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So to me, it s about if nothing else, if nothing else you get from this interview is that perhaps you really are not as aligned in many areas or one area or some areas in your life than you thought.
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The realization, the awareness of that is the old cliche, it s the first step.
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The second step from that is you might decide to have an external conversation with somebody without a conclusion, without a to-do list and just say, hey, this is not working for me.
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and just share your truth without trying to fix it.
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And I think that s the greatest stepping stone from there.
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And then the opportunities to do something about it start to present themselves in ways that you can understand or not.
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And I think the other thing is often I think we need help.
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And some people come to me, if it s not me, find somebody that can support you through the transition that you need to make to find work and relationships in your life that will nurture you.
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Thank you so much, Philip.
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Okay, thanks, Jordan.
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Bye.
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Bye-bye.
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Really interesting stuff this time.
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A lot here can be really uncomfortable for a lot of people.
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Those difficult conversations tend to get pushed into the future, forgotten about in favor of dinner or workout or pretty much anything else, because it s a really uncomfortable truth for a lot of people.
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And as you can see, Philip had to go through the same things himself.
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And I know quite a few people that have had these tough talks with themselves, many of them entrepreneurs.
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who have had to make some really big changes in their personal life, their work life, and sometimes even with close significant others, kids and family.
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So if you enjoyed this one, don t forget to thank Phil on Twitter.
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We ll have that linked in the show notes as well as the other resources mentioned on the show.
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You can tap the album art and most mobile podcast players see the cheat sheet for this show and the little CliffsNotes directly on your phone there.
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And I m on Twitter as well, at The Art of Charm.
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Our amazing sponsors will be found in the show notes, or go to theartofcharm.com slash advertisers.
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Our live programs, of course, details on that at theartofcharm.com.
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Subscribe on iTunes, give us a nice review, I ll love you forever.
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And, of course, we have our iPhone and Android apps available as well.
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This episode of AOC was produced by Jason DeFillippo.
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Jason Sanderson is our audio engineer and editor.
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Show notes on the website are by Robert Fogerty.
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I m your host, Jordan Harbinger.
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Go ahead and tell your friends, because the greatest compliment you can give us is a referral to someone else, either in person or shared on the web.
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Now have a great week, and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to the Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and more at theartofcharmpodcast.com.