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Welcome to the Art of Charm.
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I m your host, Jordan Harbinger, and I m here with producer Jason DeFilippo, as well as writer and BFF Gabriel Mizrahi.
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Here at the Art of Charm, we don t have all the answers, but we definitely have all of the right questions.
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Today on Fan Mail Friday, those questions come from you.
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If you re new to the Art of Charm podcast, Fan Mail Friday s not the best place to start.
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Most of our content is more in-depth.
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It s longer format or interview-based, so check out the best of at theartofcharm.com slash best or the fundamentals toolbox at theartofcharm.com slash toolbox.
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That s where we ve got our fundamentals.
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body language, nonverbal communication, attraction, negotiation, networking, influence, persuasion, everything else we teach here at The Art of Charm.
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And we ll send that all to your inbox if you text charmed, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D, 233444, here in the USA or anywhere.
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You can go to theartofcharm.com.
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Jason, take it away.
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Hi Jordan, I just started listening to your podcast a couple months ago and there s a lot of good pearls in here.
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I ve never written into anything before ever, so that s a testament to either the bind I m in or how much I value your opinion.
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I m in a graduate program and I m really good friends with everyone in the program, especially the other three guys in my class.
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I m about to start my last year in the program and recently our bosses chose my friend to be the chief of the program.
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I volunteered for the position, but some recent events had excluded me from being picked.
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Honestly, none of the events were my fault, but I m fine and in a great standing with my bosses and colleagues.
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Overall, I m not that bummed about not being chosen, but I do think they chose him because he s a little bit more of a pushover than I am and they just want someone who isn t going to make any waves, for better or for worse.
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So my problem is that to me and the other guys in the class, he s dropping the ball and failing to show leadership on multiple fronts.
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I don t think he realizes the responsibility he s supposed to be taking on when he accepted the position.
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I think he s only thinking of himself, his schedule and his vacation rather than the program and working to make this place better for all of us.
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He s just way too passive about his new role, and I know I would do a much better job.
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On one hand, I kind of want to see him fail a little bit, and call him out for not having his stuff together.
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Maybe even get some personal gratification watching our bosses come down on him when things go awry, and then they realize the mistake they ve made.
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But I also care about the program, and if I were running things, would bend over backwards to make this place better.
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But on the other hand, I care about my friend and I want to have his back and support him to make a positive change together.
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How do you call out a friend without ruining that relationship?
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I need to motivate him, but I don t want to alienate him, embarrass him in front of the rest of the program, or seem like I m a petty guy only doing this because I m jealous.
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Do you let the program suffer to preserve a friendship?
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I also don t want to just start doing his work for him and have him get all the credit when things run smoothly.
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Honestly, I don t want his position now that he already has it.
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In an ideal world, he would just do better and I wouldn t be writing this email.
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Would love to hear your thoughts.
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Thanks, Frank.
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Yeah, I think that s, there s a lot going on in this letter, so maybe we should quickly unpack it and try to get through some of the main issues.
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First of all, I understand this guy s frustration.
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I mean, this won t be the last time someone else gets a job instead of him, and it probably won t be the last time someone who s less qualified gets the job instead of him.
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But his basic question is this, how do I serve?
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my program while also preserving my friendship with this guy.
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The problem is that that question is complicated by a few more questions, which is how do I make myself look good and how do I spare this guy s feelings?
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Also, strangely, how do I avoid the responsibility of taking on the work?
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Thank you, by the way, for being so honest with yourself about all of these conflicts because it s making it a lot easier for us to dissect it.
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I think if you just looked at it from the perspective of how do I do the best job I can do within my department, then you have to ask yourself, like, what would an awesome leader do?
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Or like, what would the leader I would want to follow do in this case?
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I mean, assuming you want to be a leader in the department, maybe you don t, that s totally fine.
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But what I m hearing in your letter is that part of you really wants to step up and honor the situation because your friend isn t.
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I mean, an awesome leader at the end of the day delivers results and empowers the people around him, right?
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Even if you don t get credit for it, if you really want to help your department, then that s what you ll do.
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And maybe that means, you know, informally coaching or empowering your friend and helping him out and giving him some tips, or maybe it means taking on some of the work yourself.
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I m sure you can figure out what it would take to, to make that happen.
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But something kind of funny happens when you end up doing that, which is that you tend to get recognized anyway.
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So even if he feels like he wouldn t get the recognition for the work he would be doing behind the scenes.
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I think true leaders usually get noticed, and I don t know if that resolves anything for you, but leadership isn t about publicity, but once you start doing good work, you tend to get noticed.
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So, I d say if you think you do a better job than your friend, then consider taking on some of the responsibilities.
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Now, that might mean talking to your friend about his performance.
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We could talk about how to script that out, but I think you just first have to ask yourself the question, what really, what s my priority here?
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You know, am I trying to serve the department or am I trying to make sure that I don t hurt anybody s feelings?
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Okay.
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So that s one part of the equation is, you know, what role do you want to play?
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But I think.
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Based on your email, you might have some work to do around the issue in a few other areas.
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For example, it sounds like you re really excited about being a leader, but kind of anxious about taking on responsibility.
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So I m curious to know why, like, obviously.
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You can t give me an answer in real time, but I think that s a question worth asking yourself.
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You also say in your email that you re taking some pleasure in watching your friend fail, which I think is actually quite normal.
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I don t think that anybody listening to this has never had those feelings, but I m wondering why it s pleasure rather than the desire to help him out.
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Like it s amazing when you notice the ways we.
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Fine to build ourselves up when we go unrecognized.
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And in this case, that s, you know, kind of through this shot in Florida, you re experiencing when you watch your friend struggle.
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And the last thing I would say is you say you want to step up in the department, but you don t want to do the work without getting recognition.
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Again, totally understandable, but where does your hunger for validation come from?
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And is it really serving you like, which is more important, getting noticed or helping the department?
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So the great news is.
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You seem like a very self-aware person.
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That s awesome.
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That will help you look at yourself and your friend a lot more clearly and a lot more honestly.
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But the bottom line, I would say, is focus on the work, empower your friend, notice the parts of yourself that don t serve the situation.
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And if you do all that, I think you ll find yourself becoming a good leader and helping your department at the same time.
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Jason, next one.
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Hi, Jordan.
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Firstly, thanks for all the great work you and your team are doing.
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I try to listen to all your podcasts and have gained a lot from them.
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I m a dedicated and hardworking professional, and I ve been at my current company for over a decade.
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I ve always been a high performer, moving up the ladder, and I m currently only one level below the head of my department.
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The department head, whom I report to, is a total a-hole and on the quest to become the greatest a-hole ever.
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He doesn t realize he s only part of a small department in comparison with the rest of the company and behaves like he s the CEO of a Fortune 500.
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He hates anyone who disagrees with him and treats them like crap, putting undue pressure on them and embarrassing them in front of other colleagues until he makes them quit or transfers them elsewhere.
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There may be performance issues with some of them, but I still don t agree that they should be treated that badly.
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He s under a lot of pressure from his bosses because he hasn t been able to achieve the expected growth or maintain the viability of the department.
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He manages to demotivate even the best performers and shows his anger and frustration on people that aren t responsible for the problems of the department.
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Lately, even I ve been targeted, which is really stressful and annoying.
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I ve decided that I will not stand for this anymore and I m strongly considering reporting him to the higher ups.
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Some of my colleagues will support me.
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I know he could make my life miserable if the seniors don t take any action on him and I ve also started to look for other opportunities.
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My question is, should I just quit and leave this place to hell under him or try to teach this a-hole a lesson?
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Signed, Confused.
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You know what s funny is he – I think he does realize that he s only a small department in comparison with the rest of the company because he sounds just like a classic bully who gets treated probably somewhat poorly or is looked down upon and has no value in his own eyes or perhaps in the eyes of his superiors.
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And so he just passes that right on down the line.
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Gabriel, what do you think?
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I mean, for me, I would never work for somebody like this.
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I would just bounce.
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But I realize that I m not in the same position as the writer.
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Yeah, this is well, that s true.
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We re all sort of unusual positions.
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But I think this guy, this boss definitely sounds like he has some issues.
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And I totally empathize.
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I think this guy and by the way, this is very similar to a couple of the letters we got in a previous episode about the girl working at the family run company.
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There was a guy working under a difficult senior programmer.
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I think it s sort of similar, but it just sounds like this guy s a little bit worse.
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So I would go back and listen to that and see if any of that applies to your situation.
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But I don t know.
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I think it s very possible that the only way to fix this situation, if he wants to stay in the company, and it sounds like he does
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because he s been climbing the ranks and probably has his eye on some, you know, management position is, you know, to stick around and talk it out with his superior.
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And that might be a really uncomfortable conversation, but it might be the only way to go about it.
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The problem is that if he goes straight to the higher ups, then he ll be circumventing this guy.
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And if they don t take him out, then that s going to be a really uncomfortable situation to live with.
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So before he talks to the higher ups, I think you should consider having a
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A very candid, uh, non-threatening conversation with his boss about his behavior.
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That won t be easy.
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That won t be fun.
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In fact, most people really avoid that kind of conflict at all costs, but it actually.
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Might work a lot better, but here s the thing.
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I also hear in this email, some very real anger, which is totally understandable, but notice that your goal has shifted from how can I help the company and also get ahead to how can I teach this asshole a lesson or maybe just quit and let the department go to hell?
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Like, what happens in these situations is that a difficult boss makes life difficult for us and then we retaliate in any number of ways by letting them know that we re not happy or by shooting them looks or basically perpetuating the dynamics.
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So I think that s another piece of this to look at is just to consider, you know, what role am I playing in this and what would a great department head do?
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I mean, you say this guy s no good at his job.
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Well, show what kind of boss you would be and ask yourself how that kind of person would handle this situation.
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Great, I love that.
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Next question.
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Hello, Jordan and AOC crew.
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Thank you so much for your outstanding podcast and for sharing the life-changing advice and fantastic guests with us every week.
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I can t do without it.
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I m writing to see if you might have some insight into a new to me situation that is causing a lot of anxiety and frustration.
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I manage a small department of a non-profit agency.
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My previous supervisor retired last month and her replacement was hired from an internal candidate last week.
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The problem is that this person and I have had incidental dealings with each other over the past 3-4 years that have left me with absolutely no respect for her as a coworker, much less a supervisor.
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There were many instances when her lack of attention negatively impacted my department, and when I would reach out to her to solve the problem, she would accept zero responsibility for her mistakes, sometimes blaming other parties, like outside vendors, even when I knew from my investigations that she s the one that made the error.
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This leaves me very nervous for how she ll handle issues or complications within our department and I fear she would throw me under the bus to save her own reputation.
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Also, she would often make decisions that demonstrated a pretty large difference between our fundamental business philosophies.
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I ve never been in a situation like this before and I m wondering how to best plan for my future with the organization.
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My position is currently the highest I can achieve as I have no college degree but lots of experience in my field.
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I love what I do and find the everyday job rewarding.
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Can that be enough if the person deciding the direction that job can take is someone that you don t trust?
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I truly would appreciate hearing your thoughts.
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Thank you so much for everything.
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Signed, At A Crossroads.
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I think people are starting to get a feeling for why we brought Gabriel in on this one.
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And the reason is because, like I said, I ve only had bosses that I ve pretty much disappointed throughout my very short career in a real, quote unquote, real company where I wasn t the boss.
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This one is a little bit differently shaded in my mind, though, Gabriel, because he didn t say, I don t like this person, or I should have been the one who got this job.
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This is a trust issue.
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It s a little bit different than just being bitter that somebody else got picked over you, I think.
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For sure.
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This is hard because one of the worst feelings to feel about your boss is that you just don t respect him or her.
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Like you can, you know, distrust somebody, you can dislike somebody, but to not respect them just saps all of your motivation and your excitement.
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And I ve been there.
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So I get it.
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I think in this case, it s possible that.
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At a crossroads is looking at a period in her job where she might not be working with her favorite person.
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And in that case, I would say.
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Listen to the to the letter we just read about the guy who has an a-hole boss.
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Listen to the letter that we read on a previous episode from a girl who was working with the family company and the boss who was the son of the, you know, the boss s son.
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Like, I think a lot of those letters will apply in this case.
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But there s something else going on here.
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And I think maybe we can focus in on that a little bit, which is that an internal candidate was promoted to this position and that that person
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sort of intersected with our reader over the last three to four years.
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All that stuff was in the past and I think even because it s only been a month basically since this person took the job, you re probably bringing a lot of the stuff in the past into your present situation.
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Totally normal.
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A lot of people do it.
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I think it s actually a reasonable thing to think that she will probably behave the same way, but it s also been three to four years and
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This person might have changed.
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This person might be open to changing.
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There might be a good conversation for the two of you to have about how to work better together.
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So I m not saying that it s all going to be, you know, rainbows and sunshine the entire time, but you have to let people surprise you.
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And I think you have to have a little bit of faith sometimes.
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Certainly you have to give people a chance to prove that they can become better supervisors before you just condemn them and decide that it s not going to work.
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And I do hear a little bit of that in this email.
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What do you think, Jordan?
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I think you re probably right.
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I mean, it sucks to think that somebody could never change or would never change, and it s always annoying to get burned by somebody multiple times, but you kind of have nothing to lose by waiting and seeing if you can trust them, at least from the face of this letter.
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Sure, they could turn around and play long game, and it could be a really big problem, but if you think, well, I would totally work with this person, but for X, Y, Z, if you really think the tiger can change its stripes, go ahead, because your alternative here seems to be leave your job, which you enjoy.
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So, you re between a rock and a hard place.
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You could see if something changes, and you could even bring it up if you think you need to.
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Now, back to Fan Mail Friday.
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Alright Jason, next.
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Dear Jordan, I m a long-time listener of the podcast and thoroughly enjoy learning through the thought-provoking topics you provide.
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For pretty much my whole life, I ve found myself on the fringes of popularity.
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In school, I hung out with mostly a small group of other quote-unquote outcasts.
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Though I don t have much to complain about as I ve enjoyed the relationships this has afforded me, somewhere along the way I missed the life lesson on how to hang with the quote on quote in crowd.
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I ve worked in a few different sales organizations over the year but always seem to fall into the same identity no matter where I go.
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I m pretty quickly pegged as the guy who can be trusted to do what s asked of him but not the guy you hang out with socially.
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This is partly my fault, as I ve tended to lean towards keeping my personal life out of work, but I feel like I wouldn t even begin to know how to blur that line appropriately.
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I ll be getting a fresh start with a new company soon, and I don t want to make the same mistake.
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What can I do to blend into the new company culture without coming across as desperate for social attention?
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Keep up the good work, Outsider in Ohio.
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is the guy who you can t really hang out with socially.
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That s a bummer, because he has a lot of the really good qualities you want in a real friend.
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This guy is working with so much good stuff, which I think is why he s going to be just fine.
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I mean, he s worked in a number of sales organizations, people trust him.
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And he s enjoyed a number of meaningful relationships, like you have a lot to work with.
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But here s what I would say, I d say this feeling that you re describing a feeling like an outsider is actually super common.
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Like I ve had it, Jordan s had it, Jason s had it, I m willing to bet
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that most people listening to this episode have had it.
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And you know what?
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Like most awesome people have had that feeling because awesome people by definition don t fit in.
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So because you re feeling like an outsider, I m willing to bet that you ve been trying consciously or unconsciously to fit in.
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You re making decisions.
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You re behaving in a way that says, accept me, right?
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Instead of behaving in a way that says, this is me, this is who I am.
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Like, do you want to be friends?
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And so I think the first step with, with outsider is.
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Notice this tendency in yourself to want to fit in and to please other people and catch it as it s happening.
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Notice it.
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And just by noticing it, I would say, watch what happens if you break that needy pattern of thinking, just noticing it will probably take you a very long way.
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Look, I like this because working with the raw material, integrity and things like that, that s a lot harder to source than somebody who s just kind of fun and cool, right?
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And the fun and cool stuff that, look, we teach part of that stuff at AOC Bootcamp as well, banter, joking around, being able to generate rapport.
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I mean, these are skills that you can learn.
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This is what we teach here at AOC.
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So I know that they re teachable and I know that they re learnable.
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It s actually much harder to teach and learn integrity, reliability, et cetera.
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So you might have your work cut out for you, but it s not as bad.
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You ve already done a lot of the hard work involved in becoming a great person, in my opinion.
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I totally agree.
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Don t you also think that there s
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a part of this where he needs to just shift this idea that there are people who are in, and there are people who are out, and that he s one of the out people.
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Yeah, I mean, you re out of what?
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There are so many social circles, and the older I get, the more I realize, like, wow, I hang out with people from all walks of life, and we don t have, like, I have my regular crew for this and my regular crew for that, but there s nobody where you re like, that guy s not cool, he can t hang out with us, unless they do something actively crappy.
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And I think he needs to realize that the world is not a John Hughes movie where there are the popular kids and the unpopular kids.
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It s like everybody just has their crew, you know?
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Yeah.
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Obviously.
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Like, I think that s dead on.
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And I also, I want to reassure this guy that this like insider versus outsider idea, which is just an idea in his head is,
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an old tribal idea from hundreds of thousands of years ago, still playing itself itself out in his head.
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And then, yeah, you re right, Jason, kind of reflected in movies because it causes, you know, great drama.
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But I m I m willing I m willing to bet that a lot of the in crowd at work feels the same way that he does.
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And a lot of their in status is something that he s actually giving them by believing that.
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So his problem, your problem, outsider, isn t that you re an outsider.
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Your problem is that you think everyone else is an insider.
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And I think if you get rid of that idea, it ll free you up to just hang with people and connect with them as an individual, as opposed to thinking about where you fit into the superstructure.
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I, based on this email, I m super excited for you.
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Like I think this new job that you re taking is.
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a really amazing opportunity to grow as a person.
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It s a blank slate.
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You get to try something new, so just keep being yourself and keep being awesome.
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I would say maybe make an effort to connect.
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Maybe you need to be a little bit more proactive.
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Maybe you re the guy who invites people to grab a beer after work, or maybe you re the guy who sends a funny newsletter every Friday instead of waiting for other people to engage with you.
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Sometimes you have to make a little bit of an effort in order to connect with people,
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I definitely wouldn t put too much stock in your outsider identity because that s all it is.
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It s just an identity.
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It s a concept that you can decide to choose or you can decide to leave it.
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And if you do leave it, then I m excited because I think watch what happens.
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I think a lot.
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Yeah, there s just some mindset shifts here and possibly some new skills that you can learn and master, but there s nothing in the raw material that s lacking, at least not from what we can tell.
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Gabriel, thank you so much.
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Of course.
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I had a blast.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, this is great.
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Hope y all enjoyed that.
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Don t forget, you can email us at fridayattheartofcharm.com to get your questions answered on the air.
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Special thanks to Gabriel Mizrahi for joining us today.
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A link to this blog post can be found at theartofcharm.com slash fmf76, and don t forget about the AOC Challenge.
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Text charmed, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444 in the USA, or if you re anywhere else, including the USA, you can just go to theartofcharm.com slash challenge.
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SPEAKER_02
We ll take you step by step, becoming better at making personal and professional connections, becoming a better networker, increasing your personal social capital and your charisma and magnetism, and it s for both guys and gals.
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SPEAKER_02
So check that out, text CHARMED to 33444 here in the USA, or anywhere else, go to theartofcharm.com.
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Quick shout out to Faye Wu.
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She bribed me with a ton of nice Chinese Pu er Tea to get me on her show.
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That s how you do it, kids.
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Take notes.
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Thanks so much, Faye.
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And to Patrick McCabe, starting his voiceover business and helped rewrite some of the AOC intro scripts for being a fan of the show.
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SPEAKER_02
Much appreciated.
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Are you in a strange land listening to my familiar voice?
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If so, hit me up and I ll shout you out.
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More from AOC at theartofcharm.com.
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including info on our live residential boot camps that we run every single week here in LA.
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If you really want to dig into this stuff and work on your AOC skills, you can have us as your coaches.
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That s bootcamp.theartofcharm.com.
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Now stay charming, get out there and connect, and leave everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to The Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and more at theartofcharmpodcast.com.