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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill and I take a huge risk with a new segment, Shhhhhh Stuff Our Wives Say, Saddleback Shoes, Fashion Forward or a Lost Cause?
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You ll hear our take.
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And we answer questions straight out of the ASP Insider Session today, all about detachment.
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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I m Brian Neal.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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Recording on a Friday instead of a Monday.
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Energy s up.
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That s where we do it.
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We have no idea when this is going to be released, though.
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We don t.
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So because we have no idea when this is going to be released, we have to kind of guess what to say, which is always fun when you re promoting a...
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program and can t get a hold of your producer and it s Friday.
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And so, hey, so here s the deal.
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We are having, you ve heard of us talk about Insider over and over.
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You need to come check this out.
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We are going to, for lack of a better term, perhaps like relaunch Insider to give some of you who ve been thinking about it a chance to experience it before you commit.
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And we are doing a webinar.
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on July the?
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15th.
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July 15th.
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4.30 Eastern.
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4.30 to 5.30 Eastern time, US.
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So if you re not a member of the Insider Group, we invite you, encourage you, strongly suggest you come check it out.
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We re doing a whole series in the back half of the year called Six Months to Momentum.
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And Bill and I are going to be talking about very specific things to go do and to think and to say.
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Skill build for the back half, six months, so you finish really strong for your year.
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We think the, you know, after the pandemic hit in 2020 came along and left us, I think the first six months of the year, we re still trying to figure things out a little bit.
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There was a lot of uncertainty and there still is, but there was a lot of gnashing of the teeth and wondering when s this all going to work out and what s it going to look like?
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Well, I think we have a pretty good understanding now of the skills required of sales professionals for the next six months.
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And so that s what we re going to do on this webinar.
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We re going to give you six.
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We re going to talk a little bit about one of them today.
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And if you re inclined, we would encourage you to go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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Up at the very top banner, you can get access to this webinar.
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If you re listening to this after July the 15th, then you can still go there and get access to it.
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But if you re listening to it before the 15th, I d love for you to be on the call.
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You will be there.
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We know you will.
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Do you ever have things that your spouse says that make you giggle?
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No.
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Ever?
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Never.
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Does that ever happen that your spouse says?
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Never, ever, ever.
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And I don t know if this is a men are from Mars, women are from Venus thing.
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I m a professional football referee.
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I make a living making decisions.
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And when I don t want to make decisions, I want someone else to make some decisions.
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So I m on a little weekend getaway with my wife, Stephanie.
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And I love her to death.
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She s the most indecisive human on the Earth.
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Is she really?
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She doesn t strike me as that.
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She doesn t, does she?
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At work, she s very decisive.
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More personally, when we re going out, she s very indecisive.
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But she said this sentence that I thought was kind of clever.
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She said, quoting, I m not indecisive, usually, sometimes.
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We won t time out.
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That s beautiful.
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What she was trying to say was like, I m not indecisive usually.
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Sometimes maybe I am.
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I m like, did you hear what you said?
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It s the epitome.
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I m not indecisive usually.
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That alone is a thing.
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Or am I?
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Well, kind of sometimes.
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Sometimes.
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What do you think?
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I don t know.
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She s great.
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Do you think I m indecisive?
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Am I?
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I don t know.
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Maybe.
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Can I?
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Am I?
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Well, let s talk about it later.
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I don t have time right now.
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Exactly.
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You know, you were talking about things your spouse says.
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My wife sometimes.
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My wife sometimes, she ll say, oh, how d it go today?
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What happened?
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I say, oh, I got a call from a company, and they want to talk about whatever.
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And I say, well, here s kind of where we are.
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And she s always quick to say, well, here s what you need to tell them.
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I always say I m the guy people pay a fair amount of money to come to to wonder what to say and you re telling me Well, here s no.
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No, here s what you say.
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Here s what you say or you know, I ve got to go talk to her mom about something Here s how to position it.
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I m like, that s all I do is position.
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Yeah Probably done.
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That s all right
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You want to get an apartment somewhere?
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Yeah, exactly.
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A little two bedroom on Mass Ave here in Indy.
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Yeah, probably not.
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But so in our recent Insider event last Friday, we spent the entire time on the concept of detachment and the reason
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we feel so strongly about it, as Brian and I have both studied it.
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We teach it to our clients.
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We ve been witness to each other s attachments and detachments over the years.
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And we re also always working on ourselves.
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And so this topic was really good.
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We had a big crowd.
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We had a lot of questions.
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During the Insider Program, we always ask people at the very beginning, what do you want to get out of today?
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Do you have any questions about the topic?
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And so we re going to share with you
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three questions that we were unable to answer during the program because there were just so many of them.
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Yes.
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If you like some of this content, then you will love the insider.
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I know we talk about it a lot, but if you join, you can get access to this past event where we talked for an hour and 15 minutes and gave people tips and had some really good comments from the group.
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Yes.
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Very, very good.
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So you re going to get a little carryover here, if you will.
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Yeah.
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And our insider group, kudos to you.
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What a great meeting.
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This group is fantastic.
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They just bring such good ideas and insight.
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And what I love about them the most, this group is so interested in learning from both us, but also one another.
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Each other.
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It s really, really great.
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So we re going to read a few of these questions that they brought up during the session.
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that we didn t get a chance to answer.
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So this one is from Karen B. We said, what did we say?
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First name, last initial, right?
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First name.
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Yeah, we ll do that.
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Protect the innocent here.
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Karen B says, can we give some thoughts or some ideas on wording and terminology related to asking for updates or process where are we sort of questions in a detached way?
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And I love this question because so many times our follow up has an air of attachment, doesn t it?
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Like, well, have you heard anything?
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Do you know anything?
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How are we doing?
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Are we getting closer?
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It kind of has that vibe to it.
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So how do we follow up, stay in touch, reconnect without having that air of attachment?
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Or sometimes I ll get an email from a client.
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They ll say, hey, can you look over this email before I send it to this person that we re in the 11th hour of negotiation?
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And the email s like 1,000 words, and it s four pages.
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And it just has that, like you say, the air of,
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I need this so bad.
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So bad.
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I worked so hard on this.
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And you ve heard us talk about, in fact, and you re going to be impressed with this in episode 301.
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We talked about detachment, and we ve talked about it a lot.
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So detachment s the idea that we don t want to be more attached to the deal than our customer is to getting the problem solved.
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That s really the line in the sand that we need to draw.
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We don t want to be aloof or disengaged, but we also know that the more detached you are, the more power and freedom you have in the process.
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So Karen s question is really a good one.
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How do we frame, language-wise, when we re wanting an update from our prospect?
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Yes, I think you can help specific advice on Karen s question.
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You can help yourself up front by laying out process on in between meetings and just let people know.
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I m very into working process and I m very strict to it.
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So.
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I know you re waiting on some things.
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My normal course, I do this in all cases, is we ll set meetings that are touchpoint meetings.
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They can be five minutes at a time.
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And even if there s nothing to report, we still put it on the calendar just so we don t get into this, oh, I forgot about it, got pushed aside.
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So just know that s how my normal course is.
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I ve just found it to be efficient and very clear for others.
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Yeah.
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something like that, then you ve already laid it out.
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Because if you don t do that, now it s out of the blue.
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Exactly.
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And then you re like, what do I say?
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They would have called me if they had an update and all this jazz.
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And so first thing is just to tell people, here s the process.
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I m always going to leave a meeting with another meeting calendar just to make sure we don t fall behind, get lost, blah, blah, blah.
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So your idea is to preempt this so that we don t have to spend a lot of energy and drama creating words and proper frames and language and all that.
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Yep.
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Yep.
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So here s a question, though.
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If I find myself worried about what to say, does that indicate that I ve screwed up the process somewhere early?
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I would, that s a really good, if I m worried about what to say, have I screwed up?
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If I m worried about how the email was found or what, you know, what time should I call him for?
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Do I really have a good relationship?
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We always talk about, everybody talks about the word relationship.
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Do I have a good relationship?
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I don t, if I wanted to call my wife and ask her to see if she wants to have dinner tonight, I m not worried about, oh gosh, should I call her at three?
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What should I say?
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Should I give the name of the restaurant?
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You will be now that you and I live together in the apartment on Mass Ave, but that s a callback.
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It s funny.
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True that.
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Yes.
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My brain went, as soon as you said that, went to that s an indicator of attachment.
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I agree.
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Yeah.
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It s an indicator that maybe I want this too bad, or I don t feel as free from it as I should.
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Yeah, definitely.
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And that was asked in the session today, that
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We did answer this one.
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The question was from Nate, I believe, said, are there indicators?
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How do I know if I m getting too attached?
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That would be one.
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That would be one.
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I overthink my next move.
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I overthink my next move.
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Yeah, that s really, really good.
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It s not instinctive.
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Yeah.
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And if you re detached, I think you call them and get them on the phone.
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I think sometimes we rely on email when we really should have a deeper conversation, a phone conversation.
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Simple, you know, where are we?
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Are we done and I just don t know it yet?
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Have you just made a decision and I m just not privy to it?
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Are you other priorities?
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I mean, it could be a lot of things today.
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I just had a client yesterday who said he was
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really close to a client eight months ago, and all of a sudden they disappeared.
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And he would try calling them and email and nothing.
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I mean, and this is a Fortune 1000 company, nothing.
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Last week, they re ready to go.
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And he didn t do any, I mean, he d sent them emails in the meantime, but you just don t know what s going on in people s businesses today.
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And that s a good lesson.
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Sometimes it s OK to let things lie.
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We obviously teach different things from that.
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But that happens sometimes, especially in these big organizations.
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They have so much red tape.
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So many priorities.
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And they have to get through procurement stuff and all this jazz.
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Let it be.
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Just let it be.
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It might be OK.
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So maybe the advice to Karen is don t say anything.
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Let it be.
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Let it be.
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OK, this next one comes from Nate, kind of a two-part question.
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We answered one of the parts on the,
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on the call, but on the insider group, we did not answer this one, which is if you ve done or engaged in some sales behavior that was driven by your attachment.
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So what if you got too needy, or you oversent them some stuff, or sent a bunch of data, whatever, and you feel like you ve made a mistake?
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How do you course correct and not compound that problem?
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by sending them more.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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So I get real needy and desperate.
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Obviously, that wasn t enough.
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Exactly.
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I m going to send you some more stuff.
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And then I think, oh, jeez, I shouldn t have done that.
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Like an example I would say sometimes would be if this happens in complex buying situations where there are multiple people, and maybe I have one meeting with the CFO, but then the rest has been with the VP of sales, and I m not getting anything from the VP of sales, and I call the CFO.
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I m like, I m going to call the CFO, because I m worried.
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And CFO s like, don t call me.
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Or they re like, yeah, that s between you and Bill.
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I know he s working on it.
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I m like, oh, crap.
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I shouldn t have called him.
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What do I do then?
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Yeah, now what do you do?
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Can you uncall him?
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Yeah.
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Can you uncall them?
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That would be great.
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They have those, right?
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For email and text.
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For email, you pull it back.
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I m going to.
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What do they call that?
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That s the dumbest, funniest thing.
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What do they call that?
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It s called Brian Neal would like to something this message.
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Is it retract?
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Retract.
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Is it retract?
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It could be retract.
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It s a thing, isn t it?
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It s a thing.
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Microsoft Word or email or mail or whatever.
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We could retract the voicemail message.
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Yeah, so I don t know.
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Course correct.
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And Nate had some other good comments that maybe we ll get to at some other episode because he was really a bright guy.
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And he still is probably.
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Course correct when you re too attached because of a mistake you ve made.
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You know, to me, the first thing that pops into my mind is acknowledge that.
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I had something about two months ago, and we had a first conversation.
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And he said, do you have any information?
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I sent him just a list of skills.
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And after I did that, I thought, I never do that.
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Why did I do that here?
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Oh, yeah.
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And I probably.
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And I ve had some conversations subsequently.
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What I should have said was, a mistake that I made, lesson is, I should have said, look, I screwed up.
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I sent you that.
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It was way too much.
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It didn t really target what you re trying to do.
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I just was trying to give you something.
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Did that mess it up?
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I mean, are we done?
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Because I over-sent.
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Very good.
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Yeah.
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Very good.
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I think the same.
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I think you call it.
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That s what I was going to say.
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Yeah, call it.
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You just call them.
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Hey, I got a little overzealous.
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I got a little anxious here.
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I probably should have waited.
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I didn t.
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That s on me.
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Just own it.
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Because I think then what happens then is I think your attachment loses power when you talk about it.
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So if I say, I got too aggressive on this one.
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I got way over my skis.
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Those statements out loud to others, take it from you.
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Take it from your soul and that sort of thing.
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Okay, the third one was from Zach and it is...
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OK, this is a really good question from Zach S., who has a really cool last name that we learned to pronounce today.
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But I m not going to pronounce it, because I just don t feel like it.
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No, you shouldn t.
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You shouldn t even try.
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Zach has a really cool last name.
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He wants to talk about, in his question, detaching from the thought of needing to come in low on pricing to win a deal.
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How does detachment come into play when we think we need to come in low on pricing to win a deal?
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Very, very good, Zach.
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Very, very, very good.
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So I would want to know what is the data that has caused you to make this presumption that price is important.
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I know it s always important, but it has to be low bid.
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What s the data that you can point to that kind of informed that belief that you have?
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Yes, yes.
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Because that s probably part of the problem versus what do I say, although
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you know, there s always something to say in those situations.
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I just, I always, I always get back to beliefs.
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Where do we pick up?
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And we all have, we all have it.
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You know, it s like, well, I m gonna quote X amount for the day.
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Is that too much?
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Is that not enough?
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I mean, Colin Powell charges 150 grand to go out and give a speech.
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Why are you, why should you be any less than that?
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I mean, you could wear your uniform, you know.
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Wear your NFL uniform.
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Actually, Ed Hockley does that.
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Does he wear it?
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Yeah, he wears a shirt with dress pants, which is a really interesting look, but you know what?
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He does great.
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He s a great speaker.
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He s a great human.
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White bucks.
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No, exactly.
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White bucks.
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White bucks.
1
SPEAKER_01
You mean the shoes, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Saddlebucks?
1
SPEAKER_01
Saddlebucks.
1
SPEAKER_01
Are those back?
1
SPEAKER_00
I think they re coming back.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve seen the two.
1
SPEAKER_01
It come back, and then I think people look at that, like, yeah, I remember why we got rid of those in the first place, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, on this one, I love that idea of the belief of when this comes in.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I really get hung up.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I ve had, this has been one of the things, I actually just did a session on this today, that I ve had to work on so hard, is this whole idea of where money fits into this game, because
1
SPEAKER_01
We are attached to the money thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like in general, we load it up with emotion.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we think, oh, we get any price pushback, and that s bad, or whatever.
1
SPEAKER_01
And these are just numbers.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they really, truly don t mean much at all, which I think leads back to your data things.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, where are we getting this information from?
1
SPEAKER_01
So I don t need to know about coming in on any price for any reason.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m just going to have an economics discussion with them and see where it heads.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they have a side of their economics, and I have a side of mine.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we re going to talk about it, and that s going to be it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I talked today, I used this phrase I d never used before.
1
SPEAKER_01
Phrases pop out of our mouths sometimes.
1
SPEAKER_01
I said, we want to have all economic conversations emotionally neutral.
1
SPEAKER_01
emotionally neutral, which is what detachment is.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so take that phrase maybe from Nate s question and think about, what does it mean for me to be emotionally neutral any time I m talking about or thinking about pricing?
1
SPEAKER_01
And if I m not emotionally neutral, I m not ready to have the conversation.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because then it s loaded, not that it s attached and that sort of thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and back to the belief thing, I m wondering, there was a guy named Beckwith.
1
SPEAKER_00
What was his name?
1
SPEAKER_00
He wrote a book called a marketing book.
1
SPEAKER_00
Basically, in the book, he said, always be high priced.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, gotcha.
1
SPEAKER_00
Always be high priced, because people assign value based on something tangible.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the only thing that s tangible is the price.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s true.
1
SPEAKER_00
So if you re going to charge me $100 for a pair of shoes, and the guy next door has another pair, a totally different pair, for $50, well, it s like, wait a minute.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m worth that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Look how much difference there is.
1
SPEAKER_00
This has real leather, and this is pleather.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is vinyl.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so I say, well, I m not going to buy this piece of crap here.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m going to go with $100, because I assign value based on price.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m not saying to double your price, but I think it makes the price a whole lot less important and interesting, because it s the value you bring that s what they re trading the dollars for.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if they don t believe you re bringing value, well, that s a different discussion.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it d be interesting to see the store counts between the retailers of Nordstrom and Walmart.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I bet a whole lot more people, store count, physically people, their feet, go into Walmart than Nordstrom.
1
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
Millions more.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they re both really big, great retailers.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so it s just, which side of that fence do you want to play on?
1
SPEAKER_01
That s the way I look at that.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so you re going to lose deals if you are playing that low-priced game.
1
SPEAKER_00
You are going to lose deals, and it doesn t matter.
1
SPEAKER_00
And are you building your brand?
1
SPEAKER_00
according to the price you charge and the value you bring, because I m always proud when I say I use nothing but Apple products.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s a little smugness to that.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s probably a little like, you know what, I m an Apple guy, and I always look
2
SPEAKER_00
down.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, you re 6 5 .
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s true.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I think if you have a brand that people are proud to have done business with, that s another thing that s going to elevate your ability to command a premium too.
2
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_00
Is, oh no, yeah, I don t work with Smith.
2
SPEAKER_00
I work with the Jones Enterprise Company.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, oh, you work with Jonesy?
2
SPEAKER_00
Jonesy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Jonesy.
2
SPEAKER_01
I knew Jonesy when he was a nothing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think I said earlier, I think I said if you play the low price, I meant the high price game.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you play the high price game and stay up there, you re going to lose lots of deals on purpose.
2
SPEAKER_01
You just are.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s part of your model.
2
SPEAKER_00
And maybe one of the beliefs you can adopt there is that maybe people that you would have lost if you were low, now you get because you re high.
2
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because they changed their mindset.
2
SPEAKER_00
They changed their minds.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
So all good questions.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, Karen.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, Nate.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, Zach.
2
SPEAKER_00
Great Insider Session.
2
SPEAKER_00
Once again, if you go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider, I did hear from our producer, director, editor, Travis.
2
SPEAKER_00
He said, yes, this will go out on Monday of next week.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you ll still have time.
2
SPEAKER_00
You ll have three days when you listen to this to get registered.
2
SPEAKER_00
Go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_00
Click the top banner.
2
SPEAKER_00
It ll take you to the registration page.
2
SPEAKER_01
Cool.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you then next Thursday.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you on Thursday.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bye.