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We were about to give up you know it went like we anticipate skateboarding coming back into fashion on some level.
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But it took a few years longer than we anticipated and there were a couple times were like maybe this isn t you know maybe this isn t going to work.
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Welcome to the Art of Charm.
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I m your host, Jordan Harbinger.
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Today, producer Jason and I are interviewing the legendary Tony Hawk, pro skater and business mogul.
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You ll be into this episode if you want to learn why taking risk is important for the sake of progress, why you can t be afraid to slam and get right back up again, and why your personal brand and being real are something that we need to be and something that we need to protect at all costs.
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So enjoy this one with Tony Hawk.
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And by the way, if you re new to the show, we d love to send you some of the top episodes and the AOC toolbox, where we discuss concepts like body language, nonverbal communication, persuasion, negotiation, networking, mentorship, and everything else that we teach here at The Art of Charm.
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If you re in the USA, you can text charmed to 33444, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444.
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Everywhere else, go to theartofcharm.com.
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Also at theartofcharm.com slash podcast, you can find the full show notes for this and all previous episodes of the show.
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All right, here s Tony Hawk.
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I ve read the book about how did I get here.
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Jason, who s my producer, who s also on the line, has followed you for how long, Jason?
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Like a long time.
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I think, Tony, you signed my first shirt at the first Trashmore contest in 85.
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Oh, awesome.
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Yeah, nice.
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And I also watched Bones Brigade.
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And the Bones Brigade video led me to ask just why skating in the first place?
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Because in the Bones Brigade video, it starts off with this.
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pardon me, but like a freak show of guys, right, that we now think are awesome, but they re all talking about how outcast they were as kids.
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So how did you even get interested in something like this?
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How did you get into something that was just like kind of this underground, nobody s doing it type of thing?
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It almost doesn t make sense.
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Uh, well I picked up skating when at the tail end of its first boom in the seventies.
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So in my eyes it was popular, you know, my, my older brother was doing it.
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A lot of my friends in the, in the neighborhood were doing it.
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And so I did it more based on that s, that was the trend.
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And then when I,
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when I discovered the possibilities or when I saw the possibilities, I think it was the first time I went to the skate park and I literally saw people flying out of empty swimming pools.
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And that was my wow moment that I want to learn how to do that.
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I want to, I want to learn how to fly.
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And it spoke to, I mean, I would probably be diagnosed with ADD or something nowadays, but it spoke to my, sorry, my instant excitement gratification.
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Like, you know, the, the type of, it was, it was daredevil.
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I was, I was,
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I don t know if I was considered a daredevil, but I wasn t really afraid to try new things and learn flips and things like that as a young child.
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And there was a danger factor, there was this edgy factor, and I just devoted myself to it.
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Around that same time, my friends quit.
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All my peers, my classmates.
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They grew out of it.
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It was a trend, and they were over it, and they moved on to the next thing.
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I couldn t give it up, because I felt like it was finally something that I kept improving at, that I had a feeling of self-confidence that I had never found in any other sport.
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I just stuck with it, and suddenly found myself in with all these oddball characters.
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Skating really attracted people who were willing to try something different, who wanted to be set apart from the status quo.
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And I loved it.
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And they were all artsy, kind of strange, but really creative.
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What sort of subcultures do you see now that are as skating was back in 79, 80?
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Do you see something starting now where you re like, ah, this is kind of like how skating started.
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Let s see where this goes.
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In terms of an activity.
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Yeah, it doesn t have to be a sport or anything But do you see anything like I mean it could be yoga for all I care, but that s too mainstream now Do you see anything that started off sort of niche with a bunch of oddballs that you re thinking?
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Ah, that s kind of what we looked like back in 79 Skateboarding in someone s pool before the cops came.
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Yeah, I my best my best example is my my 17 year old son and
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is really into electronic music, but a certain, a very certain type of electronic music.
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And it s almost, I call it Nintendo rave music, for lack of a better term.
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And he goes to these shows and he actually performs.
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And he has this following.
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And there is something there that is really unique.
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You know, all these people have sort of found each other.
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And I feel like they feel like outcasts in the world of electronic music even.
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And I watched, I ve kind of watched it blossom.
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It s slow, but, but I feel that same, I feel like they have that same connection with each other that we had as skaters where we re doing something totally different.
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We truly enjoy it.
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And it s fun.
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Yeah, I mean, aside from the fact that you had so many injuries and so many hospital visits that your doctor pulled you aside and asked if your parents were abusing you.
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That just went with the territory.
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Yeah, you guys were getting beat.
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For guys who considered yourselves nerds and outcasts, you were pretty tough, it seems like.
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That is the defining moment of if you want to do this seriously or continue to do it, is the moment you get hurt.
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Do you love it so much that you re going to push through this and learn from your mistake?
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Or is that the sign that you have to stop because you don t like getting hurt?
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From the very beginning, one of my worst injuries in the beginning was I got a concussion.
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I knocked my teeth out.
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And I knew when I woke up, literally, when I woke up in the pro shop of the skate park, that I wanted to get back out there and do it.
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And it wasn t going to stop me, even though I had this extremely
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tragic injury for the most part.
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Yeah, that s not something I know.
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I know that the second I knock my teeth out doing anything is probably the day that I stop doing that activity.
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But I definitely understand the compulsion to become obsessed with something like this and just become great with it.
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And as I was talking to a lot of my friends, I was stoked about this interview, of course, and said, hey, I got Tony Hawk coming on.
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Isn t that cool?
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And do you have any questions for somebody like that?
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And the overwhelming number of parents especially said, oh yeah, you know, my kids were doing that for a second but they don t like doing it because they keep falling.
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And I thought this is exactly what Tony is talking about.
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when he says, are you going to push through it?
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Because the people who get really good at anything, skating or otherwise, are the people that do slam and then come back from it and say, yeah, you know, a sensible person probably wouldn t keep doing this to themselves, but I m just I m too into it.
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I can t quit now.
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Definitely.
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There s there s a happy medium, too.
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There are plenty of people that enjoy skating that don t want to push it too far, don t want to risk themselves, but still enjoy doing it.
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So nowadays, especially there is a stronger
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foundation of, of people participating because of that.
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But in our day, you know, that, that was it.
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It was like, you re definitely going to get hurt learning to do this.
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And are you willing to push through that and, and keep going and risk, risk your body.
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And the ones that, I mean, obviously some people get away with less injuries.
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I was, uh, had a string of pretty bad injuries through my years, but they would come in waves, you know, when it rains, it pours.
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Um, I think I had two knee surgeries over the course of.
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Year and a half.
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No, I was gonna say I remember when I broke my leg skating and I was laid up It was like I was in the middle years of high school There weren t that many skaters around but as soon as I was laid up all my skater friends kept bringing me all the latest Trans worlds and thrashers and an occasion an occasional playboy to get through the day Yeah, and all I could think about though was I cannot wait to get back out there I want to get back on my board.
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I had no thoughts whatsoever that you know, this was like, oh I got hurt.
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I can t do it anymore the first thing I wanted to do as soon as I was done was get back out on my board and
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Yeah and especially when you when you do it.
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on a professional level, that just comes with the territory.
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So it sucks getting hurt, it sucks to see people get hurt, but we know that they re gonna come back.
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That s just a given.
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It was actually kind of tough to get you to do the interview, because you re a busy guy, and also because you control your brand very strictly, and I thought that was kind of interesting and obviously very normal for somebody in your position, but I was entertained by this Froot Loops story, which is kind of what got you controlling your brand, one of the kickoffs for you controlling your brand very strictly.
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Can you fill us in on that?
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I think that s hilarious.
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Uh, let s see.
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That was around, I want to say 97 ish.
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Um, you know, the X games were just sort of coming on the scene and Fruit Loops wanted to do what, what they considered an extreme promotion, you know, with, with some of the X games stars.
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And so they brought me, they brought Matt Hoffman, Johnny Mosley,
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I think of maybe a rollerblader at the time to New York and they wanted us to do this precedent.
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I had never been part of a precedent before, so I didn t really know what to expect.
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And we had like media training.
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the night before and you know, our talking points and what we do on interviews and, and basically what they were doing was they were going to have us do a, a, a skate BMX skate exhibition and then do interviews with, um, media outlets.
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But, but the interviews are supposed to be talking about toucan Sam as if he s a real person and that he s into our sports now.
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Oh my gosh.
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Um, or real, whatever, real and a real entity, real toucan.
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And at the time I didn t know any better, you know, and I was like, well, that s weird.
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Would you really do that?
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And they re like, well, yeah, you know, that s, that s the idea is that you can t, Sam is really, he s, he s hip now.
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He s, he s into your guys  sports.
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And, and we wore these Fruit Loops shirts and they bust in all these, uh, these school kids to like be the cheering section.
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And it all just felt so forced to me, you know, where, where there could be an easy way to connect Fruit Loops to, you know, let s say our sports in a much more
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And I hate to use the word organic, but in a much more natural way than they were doing where, you know, we re, we re, we re like pimping toucan.
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Sam is the next superhero of our sports.
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And the, and it just felt cheesy.
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And at some point I was like, what am I doing here?
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You know, this is so strange, but luckily the people that they chose,
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to do it with me were hilarious.
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And so we kind of made it our own funny, ridiculous event.
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I mean, Johnny Moseley was announcing the Vert exhibition and naming tricks as cereals.
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Oops.
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Because he didn t know what the skate tricks were.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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And then he got scolded because he was using other cereal brand names.
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Right.
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So it s like Tony Hawk with the Grape Nut, but then not really remembering, hey, this is supposed to be Fruit Loop centric.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Like, Oh yeah, that was like, that s the lucky charm twist.
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So, you know, we made it fun, but, but there did feel, I was like, I don t want to do things like this, you know, even though the money was, was ridiculous.
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Like it was more money than I got paid for any promotion in my whole life.
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And, uh, around that same time I got an agent.
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and, uh, and explain that situation to him.
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And he had already, he was, he was an agent to a couple of their pretty big TV stars.
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And he said, Oh yeah, no, don t worry.
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He said, um, we re that we re going to put an end to all that stuff and you re going to have control over these promotions and, and, and how, how you re presented.
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Cause I would literally have this conversation like, you know, there was, it was a lot of humiliation for a lot of money, but it wasn t worth my integrity.
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Right.
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And longterm, like if you were doing stuff like that now you re, you d be, your company would be a joke.
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Oh, but at the same time, because I fought for that control and because I had such a good track record going forward from there,
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People do trust our instincts with how marketing goes.
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In those days, and even for a few years after that, a big company was not going to hear that you didn t like their marketing because they went to college for that.
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They did target groups, focus groups, and they know what they re talking about.
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I m like, but this is not skateboarding.
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This is not how skateboarding should be portrayed.
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It does us an injustice.
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Maybe it does something for you and your resume, but this is not how you treat what we do with respect.
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And so I had a couple times with big agencies over their imagery and over their taglines and stuff, and it was a struggle.
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But like I said,
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We ve come through and shown that we can be successful and that we were a little more savvy to what the kids wanted.
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Even, I mean, this, this is an extreme lesson for you to learn as well.
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And you even had the toilet paper incident where was this before or after that, where you walked into the office of some schmuck who was printing your, your name and brand on some just terrible piece of gear.
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And there was a roll of toilet paper that said something like Tony Hawk brand.
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That was the first go around for me.
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That was actually in the eighties.
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So that, that, that came before.
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And in the eighties I didn t have any business sense, you know, about what any of it meant, like endorsements, licensing and whatnot.
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And I was signing every offer that came across my desk because there was, there were guarantees and there were royalties.
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And I had no idea that the off the, the contracts that I was signing were actually conflicted with one another over what products they could do.
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So I was already in breach of contract by signing them and
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Then I went to this company that was making what the original fingerboards were, you know, what became eventually like tech deck type of stuff, but these were like plastic.
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And I had signed away my name for them to do pretty much any accessory they wanted.
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And so they were making really cheesy Velcro wallets and the fingerboards and just tchotchkes that had no place in skateboarding.
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And I went in to try to talk to them and, and, and the logos that they were coming up with were just straight rip offs of other skate companies, logos, my name in it.
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And I was like, you know, I had, I went there and I just to tell him off, basically like, you know, you can t do this.
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You can t take a vision streetwear logo and put my name in it and, and think that that s okay.
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And he s like, well, yeah, actually we can, we have the rights to your name.
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And as he s talking, there s this roll of toilet paper behind him with my name on the outside of it.
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And I was like, what, what is that?
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They said, oh, that s a joke, because one of our retailers said, well, you can put anything with Tony Hawk s name on it and it ll sell, even toilet paper.
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And so we made that for them.
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And I think at that moment, I realized that I was not a person to them.
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I wasn t someone to be respected.
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I was just a name, a brand, and for them to do whatever the hell they want to make as much money as they wanted.
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And I ended up paying to get out of my contract with them.
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And that was my first lesson
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in terms of keeping control of a brand.
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And so, you know, fast forward to 10 years later with the Fruit Loops thing.
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And then I realized like, oh, this is what happens when you re part of a big marketing campaign.
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So I think between those two is what are my big lessons in terms of how to keep your integrity, how to control your brand.
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And luckily, you know, I survived that wave in the 80s and there was no YouTube back then to document every mistake.
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Yeah, although people are probably on eBay right now looking for some Tony Hawk toilet paper and velcro wallets.
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Yeah, well luckily that was the one tip winner.
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But I did end up buying, one of those watches somehow remained that these guys made were just
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that had no quality control, just super cheesy, and I ended up buying it on eBay a couple years ago.
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Just as a reminder of what not to do, never again.
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Yeah, and take off the mark completely.
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Yeah, good call, right.
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Do you have people going through and looking for unlicensed stuff and just getting, or ancient stuff that looks bad and just snagging it?
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I used to, but it s a little easier now with trademarks and with social media, like something comes up
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it just immediately comes to your attention.
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Right, yeah, that s true.
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You can nip it in the bud.
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It doesn t end up with a massive distribution and then you ve got to find the end product.
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You can go to the source.
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No, it s very easy to sort through now.
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Yeah, Google Alerts are your friend, I suppose, in this case.
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Maybe.
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And you re, you re still skating and innovating.
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I mean, you ve got the, you did the 900, which I know was in 99, but I mean, most of your tricks now seem to be a little bit more technical and maybe less dangerous, which, uh, which probably makes sense given that you re, and I m not trying to say that you re old, but I am, and I m 36.
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I wouldn t, I don t know if I d want to be flying through the air.
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Oh yeah, I m old, I fully accept that.
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I ve kind of learned to refine my style to much more technical and low impact type of tricks and that has allowed me to continue doing it at my age.
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It s not some great secret.
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And some of the stuff I m doing is not that it doesn t necessarily resonate across the industry as what the next new hot trick is, but it gives me a sense of creativity.
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And there s something unique about it where people go, oh, no one has ever done that.
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And to do NBDs and skateboarding is a pretty big deal.
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The fact that I still get to get a few under my belt is pretty exciting.
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Yeah, it seems like you have to constantly be innovating and pushing your own abilities.
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Otherwise, do you think you d lose interest in it if you weren t progressing all the time?
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That s funny.
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I think I had this discussion with my wife just the other night, and I was trying to figure out if I don t feel like I m continuing to progress, would I be so excited to keep skating?
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I probably would, but that s, for me, that s such a hard,
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it s hard to project that far down the line for me.
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Yeah, fair enough.
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But I see plenty of my peers that, you know, they re not necessarily doing anything new, but they still love it.
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And they love getting to travel the world, getting to do it, you know, to a new audience, to more appreciation.
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And I feel
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like I probably would come to terms with that.
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Um, and I have in some ways, I mean there are definitely some events I go to, like there s this bowl event in Sydney, Australia every year.
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I ve been to the last three of them and my routines in that bowl are not necessarily getting any more progressive, but I really enjoy it and I enjoy the, the crowd and the, and the,
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the whole experience is, you know, it s, it s kind of like a reunion every year.
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So I guess I m, I am learning to accept that, but it s weird to just be playing the hits for me.
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I guess, I guess that s the crossover, you know, it s like, it s like a band and, and maybe their new stuff isn t as popular or maybe they re not getting any new stuff at all.
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But they go out there and they play these songs that everyone knows and they still like it.
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What s one modern 2016 type trick you d love to bring back in time if you could and pull off in the 80s just to blow people s minds?
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Do you have anything in mind?
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Oh, wow.
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That s a good question.
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I mean, anything Switch would have been unheard of.
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So I did a Switch McTwist in 98.
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If that had happened in the 80s, no one, people just would not have understood anything because even our skateboards were not, we re not ambidextrous.
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You know what I mean?
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Our skateboards were meant to go one direction.
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There was no nose on the board.
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And so the idea that you re skating a backwards was incredible.
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The idea that you re actually skating at switch and doing these tricks as if your opposite stance would be
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Just, it would be like you came from a time machine.
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That s right.
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Cause skateboards, when I was a kid, I forgot they were kind of fish shaped, right?
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Like 2d fish.
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There was definitely a nose and tail that were defined as such.
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And in the 80s, there was no nose.
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No one had a purpose for that.
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So your nose was like three inches past the truck and that was it.
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I forgot all about that because we were cleaning out my buddy s garage probably last summer and he had one of those Nashua skateboards with the grainy
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Basically little crystals blue crystals on the glued on it for grip yeah and giant wheels and it had yeah like a little fishtail and a little pointy nose like a mini surfboard and the thing was Enormous and I remember comparing it to a modern skateboard.
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SPEAKER_00
It looked like a completely different animal It was just unreal how bulky it was and everything yeah, and it s funny because those shapes are kind of coming back in fashion for a lot of the
2
SPEAKER_00
older generation.
2
SPEAKER_01
What would you have done if you weren t a skater?
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you ever think about that?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, what would you have gotten into if skating didn t exist?
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, I was always really interested in electronics and technology and I learned to use a computer very early on.
2
SPEAKER_00
I learned how to do video editing on a video toaster, you know, like the first sort of consumer level
2
SPEAKER_00
a nonlinear editing system.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I dabbled in that and I obviously did it through with skating a lot.
2
SPEAKER_00
But at some point when my
2
SPEAKER_00
When my income was drying up from just skating, I started to actually do freelance editing for companies.
2
SPEAKER_01
So there was a point in time around the early 90s where you were doing this, not making enough money.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know you just had a kid and you were eating a bunch of ramen all the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why did you keep going?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because at this point, it s looking pretty bleak.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re not waiting out, oh, skating s gonna get popular again.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just like, this is my life now.
2
SPEAKER_01
What am I gonna do?
2
SPEAKER_00
Um, there was a little bit of that, but, but every once in a while, some opportunity would come up like as minimal as skating in a six flags parking lot, you know, for like a promotion they ll do for a week and getting a hundred bucks a day, uh, for like three exhibitions a day.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that paid the bills, you know, and, and then allowed me to skate.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was, so it wasn t like.
2
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t like, Oh, I got to do this.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was like, Oh, cool.
2
SPEAKER_00
I get to, I get to skate and people are going to be there watching and I get paid.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, it was for a 10th of what I usually would make, but, but it made it happen.
2
SPEAKER_00
Uh, you know, but there were a couple of times when those were not coming in as frequently and, uh, we were struggling.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like I d started birdhouse escape brand.
2
SPEAKER_00
We were struggling with that.
2
SPEAKER_00
The sales weren t there.
2
SPEAKER_00
Um, and so there were a couple of times where I, I,
2
SPEAKER_00
almost gave up on skating or the skate industry as a career, but I never thought I d quit skating.
2
SPEAKER_00
I just didn t know if I d be able to actually make a living out of it anymore.
2
SPEAKER_00
I adjusted my life accordingly.
2
SPEAKER_00
I moved into a smaller place.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was saving my money.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was, like you said, eating a lot of Top Ramen and Taco Bell and peanut butter and honey sandwiches at the time, and just to have my first child.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was definitely a challenge,
2
SPEAKER_00
I was willing to do whatever it took to continue to skate.
2
SPEAKER_01
When you were 16, you were making more money than your high school teachers, and then, of course, the skating industry slipped into that coma.
2
SPEAKER_01
The ESPN X Games popped you right out of it, and it seems like your love for the game, your love for skating, is what enabled you to be ahead of everyone else when the world was ready and threw gasoline on the fire through the X Games, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
It seems like this is something that you had been practicing the whole time because you loved it so much,
2
SPEAKER_01
and that s why you were ready for action when the spotlight was on you?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think so.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, especially when those first X Games came, they wanted to do VRT as an event, and VRT was mostly, I don t want to say it was dead, but it was not the chosen style of skating at the time.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the VRT skaters that were the ones who were progressive, especially in the late 80s, early 90s,
2
SPEAKER_00
weren t really skating that much, mostly because they didn t have facilities, but also because there was just no living to be made in it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I never had quit.
2
SPEAKER_00
Luckily, you know, I lived in Southern California, so there were some vert ramps around here to practice.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that was still my, my forte, that was still my, uh, my strengths.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so when the X games came, I guess I was ahead of the game in the sense that I had never quit.
2
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, I still had my skillset.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was still learning new things and it was kind of like,
2
SPEAKER_00
And also I had the advantage of having a name that people already knew.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, not that that had anything to do with...
2
SPEAKER_00
my success as a competitor, but definitely my success as a recognizable name that people would tune in for.
2
SPEAKER_01
You ve got a lot of great business takeaways from this, from your experiences as well.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, never get cocky because good luck turns bad fast was something I saw in the early part of the book.
2
SPEAKER_01
And taking pride in being obsessive and putting in the time to get great is what, in my experience,
2
SPEAKER_01
estimation, at least from the history here, is what made you ready for the limelight.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you take a lot of care in explaining that once you ve achieved proficiency, you have to take your specialty to a new level that fellow specialists can actually appreciate.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you continue to innovate from there.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that s what sets you apart.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it sounds like a long way of saying, be so good they can t ignore you.
2
SPEAKER_00
That, and as well as, go outside your comfort zone.
2
SPEAKER_00
Learn everything about your craft.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that for me, skating, you know, I grew up skating in, in swimming pools and then eventually on vert ramps.
2
SPEAKER_00
But at some point I realized my skating would probably be better and more well rounded if I do break out of this and go learn some of these street moves and some of these kickflip moves and things like that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And, and you know, that was not something that was considered necessary for the type of skating I did.
2
SPEAKER_00
Um, and then eventually I learned that in business, like,
2
SPEAKER_00
I wanted to start this business.
2
SPEAKER_00
I had to jump into how to do purchase orders.
2
SPEAKER_00
What s it, you know, how to forecast what s a POP like net and gross profit and all that stuff I could have ignored because I did have people that were qualified to do that stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I dove in because I knew that based on my previous success that that it was only going to benefit me in the end.
2
SPEAKER_00
And and I think that for me was the secret.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean being obsessive but being obsessive about
2
SPEAKER_00
the entire entity or industry of what you re doing.
2
SPEAKER_01
How do you balance that?
2
SPEAKER_01
You mentioned in the book, the more you make it in the corporate world, the more you need to prioritize spending time on the street.
2
SPEAKER_01
How did you learn that lesson and how do you balance that now?
2
SPEAKER_01
I walk the walk.
2
SPEAKER_00
I go skate.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s my best explanation is that I m still out there skating.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m watching the events.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m hanging out with
2
SPEAKER_00
with, you know, with the kids, with the ones that are, that are considered the contemporaries now.
2
SPEAKER_00
And, um, and as long as I have my, you know, I do it because I love it, but as long as I have my finger on the pulse of what is happening out there, I can at least adjust my, my products and my career to, to fit into that or, or, or to be, to evolve with that, not to fit into it, but really to, to be progressive as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
Cause I don t want to get stuck in a rut.
2
SPEAKER_01
Over the last 17 years, we have launched our fair share of online courses, coaching programs, and finding the right platform has all
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SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_00
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SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_00
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SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_02
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3
SPEAKER_02
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3
SPEAKER_03
There s a lot of hustle and grind, especially throughout the books.
3
SPEAKER_03
And it s really easy, I think, for outsiders to just kind of assume you caught lightning in a bottle because skating was trendy and you were in the right place at the right time.
3
SPEAKER_03
And you admit a little bit in the book, look, there s a little bit of luck.
3
SPEAKER_03
ESPN revived the brand, skyrocketed it.
3
SPEAKER_03
What if that didn t happen?
3
SPEAKER_03
What was the plan?
3
SPEAKER_03
And do you think that entrepreneurs and business people should hope for something like this?
3
SPEAKER_03
And what advice do you have to prepare people for something like this, or a lack of something like the X Games, really launching them up into fame and fortune, so to speak?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, I think that definitely following your dreams and following your passion, and continuing to do that as long as you can.
3
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes it is a struggle, and for sure, there were moments when we started Birdhouse
3
SPEAKER_01
we were about to give up, you know, it went like we anticipated skateboarding coming back into fashion on some level, but it took a few years longer than we anticipated.
3
SPEAKER_01
And there were a couple of times where we re like, maybe this isn t, you know, maybe this isn t, isn t going to work.
3
SPEAKER_01
But, but I also believe that if you re just scraping by doing what you love, you re going to be infinitely happier than
3
SPEAKER_01
wild success doing something that you feel like you re selling yourself out for, that you ve lost your integrity for.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because I still love going to work every day.
3
SPEAKER_01
I loved going to work back then, even though it wasn t really paying that well.
3
SPEAKER_01
But at some point, you have to live in the real world.
3
SPEAKER_01
And can you afford to live there?
3
SPEAKER_01
with your passion, maybe not.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe there s a way to alter that approach.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe there s a way to start working with someone else that s doing it that you appreciate or that you respect.
3
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, I mean at some point you can t just have
3
SPEAKER_01
some money drain.
3
SPEAKER_03
Right, yeah, because it s a lot of folks come on and say, look, it s important to follow your passion, but a lot of the same people are also having kind of a hindsight bias, right?
3
SPEAKER_03
It s like it worked for you because you worked really hard and everything came together, but there s a lot of people who follow their passion right into their parents  basement, right?
3
SPEAKER_03
So you have to really be prepared to ask yourself, am I willing to do this even for,
3
SPEAKER_03
a non-living wage or just barely a living wage?
3
SPEAKER_03
If so, continue to do it.
3
SPEAKER_03
You ll experience that happiness that you d mentioned before.
3
SPEAKER_03
But if not, it might just have to be a hobby and that s okay too.
3
SPEAKER_03
Or you might have to be the video guy for somebody who s doing what you eventually want to do.
3
SPEAKER_03
And you have to be cool with that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and that s the compromise you have to decide for yourself.
3
SPEAKER_01
And how far are you willing to take that?
3
SPEAKER_01
And for sure, that s a perfect example.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, maybe I m the video guy that covers this
3
SPEAKER_01
this industry or this action, but it keeps you in it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And maybe that s good enough.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like I said, when I was skating in the mid nineties and barely getting by, I still loved what I did.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I considered it a success regardless of not being able to get a new car or any other sort of luxuries.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it was
3
SPEAKER_01
It was something that I looked forward to every day, something I look forward to doing, and I don t think everyone can say that about their job.
3
SPEAKER_03
I know that you re super concerned with authenticity.
3
SPEAKER_03
In the video game and the print ads and things like that, there was one example, we had some print ads, and the models were holding skateboards, but they were holding it in a way you could just tell, like, these people have never held a skateboard before.
3
SPEAKER_03
And you re cringing, and you re thinking, nobody s gonna notice, and the photographer and the media company saying, look, nobody s gonna notice, we don t even see the problem.
3
SPEAKER_03
but you knew that any skater would immediately go, these people are fake, they don t really do it.
3
SPEAKER_03
Why is this something that s so important to you?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, obviously because I wanted to be authentic, because I want to represent skateboarding the best I can.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you know, beyond wanting to be successful or to have successful products or things that people enjoy, I do want to represent skateboarding in a way that
3
SPEAKER_01
that people would be proud of it, who are in the industry, who ve grown up with it, you know, like it s such a, it s my, it s been my identity for so long.
3
SPEAKER_01
And, and I wouldn t want to exploit it in a way that makes it any less important.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so when I get to do big promotions, especially when I was doing big promotions, like on the, on the heels of our video game success,
3
SPEAKER_01
I made sure that the skateboarding that was shown was authentic, that the lingo was authentic, that it really spoke to hardcore skaters.
3
SPEAKER_01
But on a bigger level, that I was using these marketing dollars of people like Frito-Lay and McDonald s to promote skateboarding to a bigger audience.
3
SPEAKER_01
That was the more lofty goal of all of that stuff, was that
3
SPEAKER_01
I get to use these huge marketing dollars campaigns to show skateboarding to an audience that s never seen it, and in a way that represents it well.
3
SPEAKER_03
Obviously you care deeply about it, because you ve always had a lot of skin in the game at all times.
3
SPEAKER_03
For example, you invested a lot of your royalty checks back into your own business.
3
SPEAKER_03
You invested into hook jam, boom boom hook jam type stuff, with your own money.
3
SPEAKER_03
So you had a lot of skin in the game, and you re not afraid to, both in skating and in business, take a slam if you want to progress.
3
SPEAKER_03
And do you think you learned that through skating or do you think you always kind of had that hit, fall, get up again before that?
3
SPEAKER_03
Do you think that something has developed through skating and is now present in your business or am I reading into it too much?
3
SPEAKER_01
Uh, no, for sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
That, that was developed first in my skating and, and, and just the idea of.
3
SPEAKER_01
Taking risks for the sake of progression that that is exactly in tune with my business ethics.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, like we got to, someone s got to do it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Someone s got to do it first.
3
SPEAKER_01
Let s let s try it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it doesn t always work.
3
SPEAKER_01
And luckily I ve, you know, had enough successes that, that I was allowed those failures, but, but definitely in a case like what you said, the boom, boom, hot jam.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, the idea was that we would do a tour where our sports skateboarding, BMX and motocross are the, the entertainment, not the sideshow to a bigger event.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, that s how we always, how we did our exhibitions.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was like, Oh, we re the halftime show for the football game.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re in the parking lot of the big concert going on inside.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, I think our sports have enough recognition now and enough appreciation that we could be the center of an arena tour.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I drew up a ramp system that filled an arena floor and started looking for any kind of help.
3
SPEAKER_01
And people were just dumbfounded.
3
SPEAKER_01
They were just like, this is, you re crazy, you know?
3
SPEAKER_01
And so I eventually wrote a check for the ramps and just set it in motion.
3
SPEAKER_01
And once we got something that was more viable, once we had the ramps in place, once we had the crew, we started picking up sponsors and we got the whole thing underwritten.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it took that leap of faith.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was willing to risk literally millions of dollars because I believed in it.
3
SPEAKER_03
And you have a lot of huge successes.
3
SPEAKER_03
I mean, first of all, the video games, there s like 80 of them now, right?
3
SPEAKER_03
Across various platforms.
3
SPEAKER_03
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_03
Do you know something I don t?
3
SPEAKER_03
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_03
I feel like I looked it up and there was just a bunch of different results.
4
SPEAKER_01
Some of them sure are like, hey, here s the mobile version of this, and here s the, yeah, there s a bunch of different versions, and international versions and stuff like that I think are probably counted in that total, but how do you deal when things don t work out?
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, for example, Skate Jam, if that sounds like it rhymes with Space Jam, you know what I m talking about here, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
The Space Jam back in action,
4
SPEAKER_01
which was supposed to be the skateboard version of Space Jam with you instead of Michael Jordan, went all the way up, you re taking meetings, everyone s laughing and basically popping over champagne, you hop on a flight to Australia, never heard from anybody again.
4
SPEAKER_01
How do you deal with the disappointment slash rejection of projects just not falling through or bombing?
4
SPEAKER_01
It seems like those take out a lot of people.
4
SPEAKER_01
A lot of people don t come back from that stuff.
4
SPEAKER_00
I had so many experiences like that early on of big promises that I learned to take every claim like that with a grain of salt.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, I just, I just learned like, Oh, well yeah, maybe something like that will happen, but I m not going to count on it because it was too hard.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, especially in the, in the lean days when things would come up like, Oh, you might, you might be in this commercial as an extra or, you know, as a stunt double.
4
SPEAKER_00
And if I relied on that and it didn t come through,
4
SPEAKER_00
I was crushed or I d spend the money before I got it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I just learned like, if it comes, it comes, but I m not going to count on that stuff.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so in the case of, uh, wait, what were you talking about?
4
SPEAKER_00
Sorry.
4
SPEAKER_00
Uh, space jam, skate jam.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, space jam.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
So, so this, you know, this was a super exciting prospect.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was meeting with Warner brothers.
4
SPEAKER_00
We were, we were going, we had a handshake deal, you know, they, they had offered me money and we were going to,
4
SPEAKER_00
bring back the Looney Tunes characters in the form of a skate movie, like Space Jam.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that was amazing, but at the same time, I just had too much experience with Hollywood and with other disappointments where I was like, I just, you know, I m not going to believe this until we re actually on a set shooting this.
4
SPEAKER_00
And like you said, they met me.
4
SPEAKER_00
They were so excited about the project and so excited to get it going.
4
SPEAKER_00
They met me at LAX restaurant
4
SPEAKER_00
when I was flying to Australia for a week to shoot a movie, a different movie, and it was all happening.
4
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, we were going to put the whole deal together when I got back from the, from the time that I left till the time I got back, they had premiered the movie, um, with Brendan Fraser, uh,
4
SPEAKER_00
what s it called, back in action.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that flopped so hard that they said, we re not doing Looney Tunes stuff.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that was it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Jeez.
4
SPEAKER_01
So then that was it.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s just like, all right.
4
SPEAKER_01
I didn t cash any checks I didn t have.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, they didn t say that.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s just what my agent figured out later.
4
SPEAKER_00
Because I kept asking, what is going on?
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, they re supposed to get back to me.
4
SPEAKER_00
They re supposed to get back to me.
4
SPEAKER_00
And they finally said, I think that they, on the heels of the
4
SPEAKER_00
of the flop that was this movie, they re not gonna do anything with Looney Tunes.
4
SPEAKER_01
All right.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, one thing I thought that that was really funny in the book is you re walking.
4
SPEAKER_01
You did a I think it was was this Kids  Choice Awards or something.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re walking by all these A-list celebrities in the front row.
4
SPEAKER_01
Maybe it wasn t Kids  Choice.
4
SPEAKER_01
Maybe it s something more serious.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like Puffy, Jay-Z.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you re still wearing your helmet.
4
SPEAKER_00
MTV Awards.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and then you felt a little bit self-conscious.
4
SPEAKER_01
You even noted that in the book.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, were you self-conscious?
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you consider yourself, what list do you think you re on?
4
SPEAKER_01
If they re A-list, what list do you think you re on when it comes to these kind of guys?
4
SPEAKER_00
So, but to put it in context, I remember what you re talking about now.
4
SPEAKER_00
What happened was we did a MTV Awards show and our video game was up for a soundtrack award and they wanted to do something surprising
4
SPEAKER_00
with, for the crowd and they brought out, like they turned the stage into a skate park basically like all at once, you know, where you had no idea this was coming.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then we all started skating in there.
4
SPEAKER_00
It is obviously huge stars in the crowd and I had my helmet on and, but I was dressed for the, for the event.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I did this whole thing and then I went up and presented an award and totally forgot to take my helmet off.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then I m walking by all these huge stars like Jay-Z and like giving him thumbs up and he gave me this funny look and I realized like, oh geez, I m wearing my helmet.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah, that s that s when I felt self conscious.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I was like, I looked so ridiculous walking through the crowd in the suit and in my helmet, like I could have just taken it off, you know, way just after we did the skating.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I forgot I was too nervous.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right.
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So they re thinking like interesting fashion choice, a suit and a skate.
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I just felt dorky.
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That s all.
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That s that was.
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But but on full display of like the yes, the A-listers of the time, I don t really consider myself on any list.
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I mean, I m
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I can t believe people still recognize me.
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I can t believe that I get recognized for skating because that was never something that was, that was a goal.
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There was never something that was an option when I was younger.
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Like the most famous skaters when I started skating were only known to a very small group of skateboarders.
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You know, they were not, they were only like they were in the skate magazines.
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They were definitely not on TV.
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They weren t, you know, they weren t considered,
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sports stars.
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So I, I still feel strange that I get recognized.
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I mean, it s amazing.
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Like I get, I get incredible opportunities.
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I get, you know, I, I get VIP, whatever passes seating and stuff.
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I get to do some really rare things with my kids that the most people would never get to experience.
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Um, but I m always thankful for it.
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I never expected it.
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And I don t know what list that puts me on,
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but you know, I don t get invited to the Academy Awards.
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Not yet, but you know, I ll tell ya, I took a, a long time ago, well I don t know, a year ago or so, you and I were at the same event, speaking at the same event, I took a photo with you after you had done a talk at this house outside where there was a pool and a fire pit, that s all I remember, and I posted it on Facebook from my phone and the caption didn t come through.
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And I noticed it and I thought, I ll fix that later, no one s gonna comment on it, because it just looks like me
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and some friend of mine hanging out.
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And when I came back and checked the photo later that night, there were dozens of comments like, holy shit, that s Tony Hawk.
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How d you meet Tony Hawk?
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So I don t know what list you re on, but tons of people recognized you immediately in a photo with me, people that I don t think ever owned a skateboard.
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at least now for the last couple of decades, every single one who commented was enthralled.
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It wasn t just, Oh yeah, that s that Tony Hawk guy.
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It was what, where did you meet Tony Hawk?
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So you still got that.
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Oh, that s pretty cool.
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Well, thank you.
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Yeah.
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I guess I just don t want to, I don t want to, um, think that I have more, whatever recognition than I do.
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And, and like I said, I m still,
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I don t take it for granted at all.
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I don t expect people to recognize me.
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And the weird thing is that it happens more now than almost ever.
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And I have no explanation for that, because it s not like our video game series is still on top, and I m not doing big marketing campaigns so much anymore, but it s amazing.
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When you fly, do you take the skateboard with you on the plane, or do you check it?
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Uh, I usually take it with me and it s funny cause people think that s like me, you know, trying to try like being pretentious and like, Hey, here I am.
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Here s my skateboard.
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I usually take it with me because I m just, if, if I can do it without almost any of my bags that I check in, except my skateboard.
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Right.
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Might be tricky to go and buy a new skateboard and do a demo at whatever hour of the day it is that you arrive.
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Yeah.
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And we don t like my board is very specialized.
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We don t make that shape.
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I have size 13 feet, so it s very important that it arrives with me.
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That being said.
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when you fly to certain cities in Europe, you cannot put the skateboard in the overhead bin.
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Because it won t fit?
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Or they won t let you?
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No, it s just their policy.
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So I m well-versed in which airports I can fly through with a skateboard and which I can t.
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That s funny.
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And people must look at you like, who is this guy trying to be relevant, you know, with his skateboard?
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Who is this guy?
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Or sometimes they just think it s me being, you know, that it s...
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that I m being pretentious with it.
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That it s like, check me out, here I am, here s my skateboard.
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It d be like some famous guitarist walking through with his guitar strapped around his neck.
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Right, like, oh, they won t recognize me unless I have my skateboard.
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Let me put some stickers on it.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Tell us a little bit about the foundation and why it s important.
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Well, the foundation, we started about, oh, I started 14 years ago.
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It was my way of giving back, obviously, to the industry and the community that have given me so much.
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But for me, it was a reaction to a number of skate parks that were being built at the time.
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This is around 2001, 2002.
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And they re mostly in affluent
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areas and they were mostly being built by city councils that were just doing it to congratulate themselves for being so cool that they would build a skate park.
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But in the reality of it was that they would hire the lowest bidding contractor for the job, which was usually someone that just poured concrete for sidewalks and they were not consulting the skaters of the community and they would just go ahead and
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full steam ahead with, with no consultation of, of people that were experts in the field.
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And then they would build these parks that were terrible.
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You know, they were poorly designed.
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They weren t, there was no flow.
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There was, there would be like a set of stairs that met a wall.
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And I saw, I went to a couple of these grand openings cause I was invited to go and, and I would, I would complain.
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I would say, you know, this park is terrible.
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And they would say, well, that s what, that s what the kids were saying.
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But we said, wait till Tony Hawk gets here and shows you how to ride it.
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And I think at that moment I realized that there s this disconnect between the kids who need these facilities, who want these facilities, and the entities that are providing them.
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But more than that, these facilities and this funding should be going to much more needy areas, much more low-income, challenged areas where the kids don t have many outlets for activities.
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And so I decided I wanted to do something about that and bridge that gap between the kids who
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need these facilities and the people who are providing them hopefully provide funding, but mostly provide resources on how to get it done and how to communicate clearly with the kids that want these parks.
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So the seed money for the foundation was, came from me being on the celebrity edition of who wants to be a millionaire.
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And, uh, we got to $125,000 or I d got to $125,000 with the help of my brother,
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as a lifeline, and that was seed money for the Tony Hawk Foundation.
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Is he a specially smart guy, I assume, or is he just really good at Google?
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He s a writer, he s an editor, and he has a literature degree, and the quote was about Hemingway, so I called him up, and he didn t answer it immediately, and I got nervous, and I could hear him typing, and so he was doing a Google search, and this is,
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2002.
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So you got to realize that that was not the usual of how these things go.
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And so I started panicking because I could hear him typing and he immediately said the answer and
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he had got it through a Google search.
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I think that might have been the first time that he and I both realized how truly effective Google could be.
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Nice, yeah, of course.
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Luckily, he got it right.
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That would just be horrendous, right, if you blew that for charity on national TV.
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And you guys have done a phenomenal job.
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It looks like, at least the stats that I got, which might not be up to the minute, but 572 skate park projects in the US,
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have received funding from the Tony Hawk Foundation, five and a half million awarded to help create public skate parks, 400 worldwide projects with training and different foundation, that s in 2015, and it just seems like there s, and there are millions, by the way, of people using these every year, they re not just sitting kind of idle, and it s a huge accomplishment and a huge piece of legacy
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Do you think about that when you create these things?
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Like, what am I gonna leave behind other than some really awesome videos and some video games?
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I mean, is this part of your legacy that s important to you?
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I have never been so concerned with that aspect of things.
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I mean, I am hugely proud of what I ve helped to accomplish and create in skateboarding, but I ve never been one to be like, I need this on my gravestone.
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I m just stoked to see skating grow and to have been
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to be a participant in that or to have been some catalyst in that is rewarding enough for me.
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One of our show fans, Tony, asks, is there anything you would have liked to accomplish professionally that you have not?
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Professionally, that s kind of a broad term.
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I think that I would have liked to have taken the Boom Boom Huck Jam concept internationally on tour.
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I think that that could have done really well in places like Europe, in Australia, and even Japan.
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But our stage setup was so cumbersome, and it would have taken a big sponsor and a big influx of cash to take it overseas.
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For anyone that knows what concert tours are, generally you have about four to five semis that carry all your gear.
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We had 14 semis carrying our gear.
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And so to take that on the road into the country,
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was a huge cost and a huge undertaking, and I never got to do it, but I would have loved to.
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How do you stay motivated to innovate and not kind of get caught up in the celebrity of everything?
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How come you re a really grounded guy?
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You do a lot of community service, even meeting you in person, just totally normal conversation.
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I ve also met a lot of other people, and that s not the case.
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Do you know why that is?
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I mean, are you actively working to stay
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Like a normal person for lack of a better word.
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No, I think it s just, it s come with having experienced the highs and lows already.
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I mean, I had a great bit of success in the eighties and I did, you know, I was young and I felt invincible then.
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So probably if you met me back then, I might ve been a little bit more of a dick, but having had a sort of a downfall of success and
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learning that I truly do love this and I would never give it up, you know, through, through the sort of darker days.
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Um, and then having it come back in a way that I never imagined or dreamed.
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I mean, that s been incredible, but, but, but I never lost sight of what got me here and that is the skating and that is the, you know, being a genuine person.
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And so it s not an effort, but, but it s definitely just who I am now.
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And, uh, you know, it, it takes, it takes being knocked down to get there, I think.
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I mean, some people, it s weird, skateboarding now, some people get into it to be rich or famous.
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When I got into it, neither one of those things was even possible.
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Yeah, that was nothing on the horizon for that.
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It was like when you re learning a new trick, you mentioned this in Bones Brigade, learning tricks from people who ve done it already, that s easier.
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It sets up everyone s beliefs that it could be done.
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but if nobody s done it, then it seems like it might be impossible.
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So for you, having done that with skating, you kind of see, look, this is something, you see that probably a lot with new folks, new entrants to the arena, is they re looking at it like, alright, skate, work hard, dot, dot, dot, fame and fortune in video games, and that for you was never, this was uncharted territory.
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And so the idea that you could fail and just be normal Tony Hawk, a guy who used to skate, was always something that was maybe in the back of your mind.
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That was always a possibility.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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But also, when you see, you know, they re very transparent.
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The people that get into it because they think it s their ticket to fame or fortune are the ones that lose their motivation quicker than anybody because once they get a taste of that,
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they think that s it, and that they can just ride along, you know, cruise it for a while, and you ve gotta keep challenging yourself, and I think that s the mark of a true champion of what, in any sport, is someone who continues to challenge themselves regardless of how they ve compared to everyone else.
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Tony, thank you so much, man.
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This has been amazing.
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Everybody who asked questions got their question in.
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I really, really appreciate your time, and we really appreciate everything you ve done for the sport, and of course, for the Tony Hawk Foundation.
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Well, thanks for having me and listening to my stories.
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Really good stuff.
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You know, it s funny because I was never really into skating.
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Jason, obviously you were.
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Yeah, no doubt.
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Like I said, I met Tony Hawk when I was maybe 14 at Mount Trashmore.
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But before that, I was a fan.
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I can t remember a time in my life when I was not a fan of skateboarding and the Bones Brigade.
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I mean, that s just, it s crazy.
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I remember it always existed, and I remember a lot of kids around me did it, and a lot of people stuck with it, even through the 80s, 90s, everything.
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And it was always, always something around us, and there was always some skating stuff going around, but I just never, look, I m too much of a weenie to be into something like that.
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It just wasn t my thing.
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You don t have to say weenie.
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Look, me and my 45-year-old friends, we go out every Sunday.
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We have slappy Sundays.
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Us old guys bring the kids out.
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We teach them how to skate.
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You can still skate as an old man, and you re not an old man, so you still have time to get on the board and give it a shot.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Might need a couple lessons.
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Maybe we ll ask Tony.
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to show us how to stay on that thing.
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If you enjoyed this one, don t forget to thank Tony on Twitter.
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We ll have that linked in the show notes as well as the other resources mentioned on the show, including some videos and a couple of books written by Tony as well.
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And you can tap our album art in most mobile podcast players to see the show notes for this episode.
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And we link to the show notes right on your phone.
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Bootcamp details for our live programs, bootcamp.theartofcharm.com.
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That s where you ll learn everything that we teach here at the Art of Charm.
5
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nonverbal communication, negotiation, mentorship, persuasion, influence, all that stuff.
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And remember, we re sold out a few months in
6
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So if you re thinking about it a little bit, you should get in touch ASAP, get some info from us so you can plan ahead.
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And also, I want to encourage you to join the AOC challenge at theartofcharm.com slash challenge.
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You can text charmed to 33444, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D to 33444.
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The challenge is about improving your networking and connection skills and inspiring those around you to develop a personal and professional relationship with you.
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We ll also email you our Fundamentals Toolbox that I mentioned earlier on the show, and I ve got regular videos with drills and exercises to help you move forward every single week.
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It ll make you a better networker, a better connector, and a better thinker.
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That s theartofcharm.com slash challenge, or text charmed in the US to 33444.
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For the full show notes for this and all previous episodes of The Art of Charm, head over to theartofcharm.com slash podcast.
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This episode of The Art of Charm was produced by Jason DeFillippo.
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Jason Sanderson is our audio engineer and editor.
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Show notes on the website are by Robert Fogerty.
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I m your host, Jordan Harbinger.
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Go ahead and tell your friends, because the greatest compliment you can give us is a referral to someone else, either in person or shared on the web.
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So stay charming, and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to the Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and more at theartofcharmpodcast.com.