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Betterment.
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Investing made better.
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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill warmly welcomes Sven to the show.
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Bill also does his best Barry White impersonation.
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And we listen to a clip from an interview with an outstanding guest on the topic of intention.
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Welcome again, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in the universe, created exclusively for your own sales success.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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Bill Kasky here.
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Do I sound nasally?
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Yeah, you do.
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I feel nasally.
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You ve had that thing for a couple of weeks or more.
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It s been more like a couple of months, but that s OK.
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Yeah.
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What are you doing to keep it around and alive?
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I do think I got two rounds of it.
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I do think I was sick with something and then something else.
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caught back up with me while I was away on spring break.
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I went to Aruba on spring break.
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Did I tell you that?
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Sounds great.
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I think I did tell you that.
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It was beautiful.
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If you ve ever been to Aruba, listeners, if you ve never been to Aruba, go.
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I don t know if we have any listeners in Aruba.
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We might.
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I should have checked before I went.
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We ve got one in Iran, so surely.
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Isn t it Iran?
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Iraq, Iraq, Iraq.
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Flock of seagulls.
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Yeah, but I need to get rid of my cold, so I don t sound so nasally.
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You know, we used to believe when we were kids, well, you know, if we get to Florida, spring break, we ll clean all this cold up.
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That s what I thought.
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In college, we drink for seven days, 20 hours a day, so it s not probably helping.
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Or in our late 40s, either one.
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You know, in the Midwest here, it was really nice from February 15th till March 1st.
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It was like 60s, which we d never have.
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And so then it turned cold in March.
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And I was joking with somebody.
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I said, we never thought we would really long to have February back.
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Exactly.
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It was too chilly.
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And I think that probably created a lot of germs and a lot of bacteria.
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I see a little bacteria on your
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Is there still, yeah, I do have, right.
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I m wearing a camouflage hat today.
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Kind of took the day off.
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It s Good Friday.
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It s a recording of Good Friday, which is nice.
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I m fasting today, I didn t tell you that either.
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Oh, you are, okay.
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Yeah, so far I ve had water and tea.
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Okay.
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So I ll tell you how that goes.
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Is tea allowed?
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Well, I mean, I m just doing it to try, you know, see how it goes.
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So I ll let you know at about 10 o clock tonight, if I m still alive.
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I think you will be.
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You know, when you have a podcast like we do, and we always, we re observers of human nature, and we re observers of media.
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And I heard something funny the other day.
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There was a guy on, it was either Squawk Box on CNBC, or CNN, or one of those shows.
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It was a business show.
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And the interviewer said, well, tell me, you know, you re a financial planner.
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And tell me what people are missing today when they go to financially plan their lives.
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He goes, well, you know, I ll give an example.
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He goes, let s just take two people.
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Let s take the first one.
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It s Greg.
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And he doesn t have a financial plan.
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And he s never saved a thing in his life.
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And by the time he s 60 years old, blah, blah, blah, he says, that s Greg.
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And that s a typical thing.
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But let s take somebody else.
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Let s call him Sven.
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He said Sven.
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He said Sven.
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And I m like, Sven, you have two people.
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First off, you would have thought he would have picked Greg and Lucy or something.
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Yeah, totally.
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Yeah, or Tom and Susan.
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That s right.
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But he went to Sven.
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And I know that the broadcaster, the announcer, was probably saying to himself, should I hold the phone here a little bit?
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How did we come up with Sven?
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And he didn t laugh.
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It wasn t like, just plowed right through it, huh?
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So I thought that was funny.
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And I know people get on TV, and they say things they shouldn t say, just like we say things we shouldn t say.
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It just pops into your head.
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It just pops in.
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It s like Sven.
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And you can t get it back.
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We need to get a picture of Sven here with us.
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We ve got a great interview coming up.
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Before we do that, I will tell you, Bill, that I was in a meeting the other day with my little crack team, and we re doing some stuff.
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And we decided we re going to start mailing out personalized little thank you notes.
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Isn t that nice?
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That s good.
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That s a good thing, and it s a push for me to do that.
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And so as we re talking about it, the team says, well, how are we going to get all these envelopes to everybody?
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And I said, I got the solution, baby.
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Stamps.com.
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Stamps.com saves you time, saves you money when you need to grow the business.
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You can mail any letter, any package, any class of mail using your own computer and your printer.
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Stamps.com makes it easy.
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They send you a digital scale, calculate the exact postage.
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I use Stamps.com because?
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I don t like to go to the post office and it s really easy and I m a junkie for efficiency and stamps.com makes things super efficient, piece of cake.
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Right now, you too can enjoy stamps.com service with a special offer that includes a four week trial plus postage and digital scale without any long-term commitment, which is great.
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Go to stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in advanced selling at stamps.com, enter advancedsellingstamps.com.
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Never, ever, ever go to the post office again.
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I bet that made your week when you re sitting around with your crack team, and they say, well, geez, what are we going to do?
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How are we going to do this?
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We don t know how to mail.
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How do we get this from here?
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Well, team, just hang tight.
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I ve got something here.
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And so you raise your hand in the back of the room.
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Yeah, with a smirk.
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And then someone looked at me and goes, stamps.com?
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I go, mm-hmm.
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It was good.
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Anyway.
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Hey, listen, I interviewed a lady by the name of Kristen Zhivago last week, and it s for some other work that I m doing where I m interviewing some experts on sales process and sales mission and salesmanship, salespersonship, as I say.
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Good correction.
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And Kristen is really all that.
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She is an awesome lady.
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She has written a book called Roadmap to Revenue.
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and I would encourage our listeners to get it.
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It s really about her whole mission and whole cause is let s stop thinking about our sales process and let s start thinking about the buyer s buying process.
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Whether it s a, no matter if it s a purchasing agent or a, you know,
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you know, a CEO, everybody goes through a process.
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And we ve talked about that, but she really has dove quick into it and very deep.
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So, but she also brought up a topic that I thought I would play a three or three minute clip here.
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And it s me interviewing her.
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So I pipe in a couple of times, but I d like to play it for you.
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And then let s talk about what we hear.
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Yeah, good.
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I think the first place and the first problem is our intention.
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And the older I get, the more I realize how much we are driven by and messed up by our intentions.
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Our intention as a seller, especially if we start a company or we re on commission, and now our livelihood and our family s health and everything depends on us.
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Making the sale.
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OK, so that s our intention.
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And we have a sales manager who s beating us up every day about, you know, you ve got to meet your quota.
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Now, the customer has no such intention whatsoever.
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They don t care if you make a sale.
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I know, you know, they might be a little empathetic, but if you re a nice person and you re trying to help.
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But basically, that s not what gets them up in the morning.
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this whole dominance of intention that filters into every single thing you say, the client can smell it too, or the customer can smell it.
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You know, there s a saying in show business, I used to be in show business, there s a saying called flop sweat.
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And that s when you re up in front of the audience and you re flopping, you re not making it, then they know it s like a comedian and nobody s laughing, that kind of thing.
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that s flop sweat and people can smell flop sweat on you and you know they know that your intention is to sell them and it s not working and you re getting frustrated and they don t care they really don t care so their intention is to as you say I think you have two things that that you bring up and you ll have to tell me what they are because they re not coming to my mind right now but they re absolutely fantastic about a desire or solving a problem I think
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I always say that, and you said this exactly the way we think, is your intent matters.
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What you re intending in that relationship matters.
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If you re intending to make the sale, you re probably at cross purposes or at odds with their intention, which is exactly what you re saying.
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I always say that people s intent is either to solve a problem or achieve a possibility, a new desired state.
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And if your intent matches with that, you are golden.
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But most of the time it doesn t in the amateur sales world.
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Absolutely.
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And people are so over salespeople.
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I mean, when the whole relationship thing started, the big fat about having a relationship with your customer, I just thought to myself, wait a minute, I don t want the car dealer showing up for dinner.
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Honestly, don t.
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I just want to get in there, get the car, have him tell me the truth about the car.
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Let s be truthful.
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That would be really cool.
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And then I just want to buy the car and go away and go about my life.
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So
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So I think our intentions are a big problem.
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And by the way, it s not just about selling.
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I ve worked with CEOs whose intention was to show up their previous co-work.
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Oh, yeah.
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It s sick.
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I mean, intent is a sick and deep deal.
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Yeah.
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Especially in the tech industry, where you ve got engineers starting companies, and they want to prove that they re the best engineer.
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So that has nothing to do with the client s or customer s intention.
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And that s, I think, the first place we get off track.
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So what do you think?
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Intent, intention, relationship, she spoke about a lot of things there.
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Is she a doctor?
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Is she Dr. Chivago?
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I was waiting to say that the whole time.
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Could I say that I was in show business if I was host of Allegro 1974 at Carmel High School?
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You can.
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I wonder what that meant.
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Did that mean she worked in behind the scenes, or she s famous on the thing?
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I don t know.
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It s good.
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But maybe that s for the Dr. Zhivago.
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That Dr. Zhivago, maybe she was.
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That s the link.
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You re good.
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I ve never seen that movie.
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It was my dad s favorite movie.
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I don t know why.
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I ve never seen it.
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I haven t either, but I heard it s really good.
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But you know, what a great branding.
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You know who Dr. Zhivago is.
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Isn t that funny?
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And it s like from the early 70s, right?
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Yeah.
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A long time ago.
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OK, she s really, really good.
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And I love, I think one of the things that is great about when you hear someone speak that lines up with you is it s validating.
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Then I also love when they expand how you believe.
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And she did this in this interview for me.
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One of the things that was a real takeaway listening to her talk about intention, and we talk about intention a lot on our show, about how to show up with the intent to help other human beings make their lives better.
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And if you do that, you get out of the selling realm.
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I ve never thought about the buyer s intention.
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What is the buyer s intent and purpose when they wake up on what they re doing?
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And are they aware of it?
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Do they know what it is?
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And like she said, their intention is not like, I m going to wake up this morning, and I m going to buy a new telephony system.
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Or I m going to help this sales guy.
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I m going to help him buy something.
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Yeah, I m going to get him.
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No, they just don t.
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It s a very interesting thought process, I think.
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What percent of, okay, let s say that the average closing percentage is, let s just say 15%.
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That s the deals that we propose to the deals we close, period, or across the B2B space.
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How much of the 85% that we miss, that doesn t close, has a relationship to this and is impacted by crossing tension?
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I bet a high percentage of it is.
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Lots and lots and lots.
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It almost always is.
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And I wonder how many times really, yeah, when we when we are the ones that push the deal away, because our intent is flawed.
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I would love to walk around and we re not done this yet, like with a GoPro camera, right?
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So how many of the losses were caused by me versus the other person?
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No salesperson that I work with ever says, this was on me.
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This was my bad.
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They just don t do that.
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I got too excited.
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I got too eager.
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Yeah, I did.
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I wasn t really paying attention.
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If I played it back, I pressed a little too hard.
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Most of the people we work with, the vast majority, do not do that on their own.
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No.
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And I think in our coaching, we help them do that more.
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And still, that s not a natural human innate thing to do usually.
1
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I get calls, as I m sure you do, from people prospecting.
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Usually it starts with an email.
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And I know when I m in a campaign.
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I just know when I m in some kind of marketing campaign.
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And it is amazing to me how lousy the campaigned emails are.
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And I know they ve spent tons of money with copywriters and marketing people.
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And the intention has very rarely anything to do with me or with my needs or problems.
1
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It s all about, let me tell you about us.
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We ve been this, and we do this, and we ve got this, and we ve got that.
1
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And part of that question of the 15% close rate is, wouldn t we want to stack the odds in our favor?
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We really say we want to be the beneficiary of good processes, and we want to make more money, but yet we don t do the things.
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We stack the odds against us when we go in with ill intent.
1
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Absolutely.
1
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Yeah, I would have everyone listening think about this.
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Think about every single thing that you do.
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What s the intent behind it in a day in your business life?
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Every single thing you do.
1
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So what s the intent behind putting something into salesforce.com?
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What s the intent behind an email that you re following up on a customer?
1
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And really start to hyper check it.
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Like, wow, you get real hyper aware of what s going on.
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And then see how many of those things are self-serving or for somebody else.
1
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So I ve got to put salesforce.com in for my boss.
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And, well, I ve got to follow up on this person, because I really need to close this deal.
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That s about 90% of Salesforce.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, like 98%.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sorry, Salesforce.
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SPEAKER_01
Because I know we have Salesforce people listening.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, that s great.
1
SPEAKER_01
But the problem is.
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Compliance is an issue.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s an issue.
1
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So that would be a good to-do item for me, if I m given some advice around this, is to say, OK, all day long,
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If I think of each action, each conversation I get into, what is my intent behind each of those things?
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If I m doing a demo, a lot of our clients do demos, what s my intent behind the demo?
1
SPEAKER_01
So often, the intent is to maybe show off, or impress, or educate even.
1
SPEAKER_02
But can we really honestly ask ourselves what our intent is and actually honestly answer that question?
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it seems to me like if our intent has been baked into, oh, yeah, I want to help him.
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I want to educate him.
1
SPEAKER_02
But at the end of the day, Brian, I ve got to make the sale because my family has to eat.
1
SPEAKER_02
I just wonder if we can really be honest about the answer to that question.
1
SPEAKER_02
Maybe we can.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, if you re OK saying, and this is something I d written down as I listened to the prep for this, is it ever OK to want the sale?
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SPEAKER_01
Is that ever OK?
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is having the intent, I really want to work with this customer or client every real day.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it is.
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I think it is, too.
1
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And I ve had that, personally.
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I meet a company.
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I see their culture.
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I meet their leadership.
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I meet the salespeople.
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And I go, I do.
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I want to work with them.
1
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I just do.
1
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And I think I used to maybe beat myself up over that, like, no, you can t.
1
SPEAKER_01
You ve got to stay good intent.
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I m like, well, no, I really.
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If that s your intent.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I want to work with them.
1
SPEAKER_02
But that s a different intent than I want to sell them something.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s a good point.
1
SPEAKER_02
Totally different.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s a good point.
1
SPEAKER_02
You see somebody and say, I want to be a part of building and even making it better.
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SPEAKER_02
And I love, you know, I might even do this for free if I have enough.
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SPEAKER_02
But that s very different, I think, than my intents to sell so my family can eat.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s a really good point.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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And we could literally have a show on intention every week, because almost everything we do, every email we send, every follow-up call, every objection we handle.
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SPEAKER_02
I had a client the other day that came to me, and he said this customer was really frustrating him, because he wasn t communicating properly, and he didn t get back with them, and he thought he was lying to him.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I said, what s your intention here?
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SPEAKER_02
He s, you know what, I just want some respect.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s great.
1
SPEAKER_02
I appreciate you being honest about that.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s good, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s the first step to recovery.
1
SPEAKER_02
It is, isn t it?
1
SPEAKER_02
But that s not what your customer s intention is.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s not what s in their heart.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know what?
1
SPEAKER_02
I need to do a better job of respecting Brian.
1
SPEAKER_02
They re not thinking that.
1
SPEAKER_02
No.
1
SPEAKER_02
They re thinking about all the crap in their lives.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
And they ve got bosses and managers.
1
SPEAKER_02
And you know what?
1
SPEAKER_02
You just happen to be the whipping post for today, Bill.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I think we just have to think about, when we get ready, especially when we get ready to go in and do something because we don t like the way we re being treated, you ve got to be real careful with that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Very, very.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s a great, I may have mentioned this in the podcast before, Brene Brown, who s one of my favorite people to watch and consume, mostly via TED Talks and things like that, has this little phrase that I love where she says, if you re in angst with someone, stranger, customer, Starbucks, barista, whatever,
1
SPEAKER_01
Instead of being angry with them and lashing out, instead you think and feel this and say, I bet they re doing the best they can with what they ve got today.
1
SPEAKER_01
So when you re getting this contentious feeling, I think from an intent standpoint, my intent becomes I want to understand and empathize what s going on in that person s life, in their brain, heart, soul.
1
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t have to be super deep even with them, with a customer.
1
SPEAKER_01
But you can try to, if you re constantly trying to understand what s this other person, what is their intent, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
That should be one of my number one roles as a sales professional.
1
SPEAKER_01
Understanding what my buyer s intent is.
1
SPEAKER_01
Why is this person doing what they re doing?
1
SPEAKER_01
Why are they giving me price pressure?
1
SPEAKER_01
Why are they, so.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s good.
1
SPEAKER_02
Hey, Brian, we ve got a new sponsor, a new partner called Betterment.
1
SPEAKER_02
Betterment is a financial planning company, gives you financial advice.
1
SPEAKER_02
Their mission is to help people manage and grow their wealth, higher expected returns at lower costs.
1
SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_02
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1
SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_02
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1
SPEAKER_02
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1
SPEAKER_02
You can sign up for Betterment.
1
SPEAKER_02
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1
SPEAKER_02
For terms and conditions, visit betterment.com slash advanced.
1
SPEAKER_02
Betterment.
1
SPEAKER_02
Investing made better.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, in my interview with Kristen, there are some other parts.
1
SPEAKER_02
We might bring that back here in a couple weeks and do another part.
1
SPEAKER_02
Because she s, again, Kristen Zhivago was her name.
1
SPEAKER_02
Roadmap to Revenue is the book.
1
SPEAKER_02
And she s in Silicon Valley and does a lot of work with pretty good-sized tech firms out there.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you listen to the first part of this clip of the interview, one of the most impressive things, I think, was when she was saying something, and you did a Barry White, yeah, which I just love.
1
SPEAKER_01
I know.
1
SPEAKER_01
You go, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I looked over, when you were listening, I looked over at you to see if you smiled, but you didn t.
2
SPEAKER_00
I just typed it in.
2
SPEAKER_00
You were very focused.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just said, yeah, Barry White, that was great.
2
SPEAKER_01
That was wonderful.
2
SPEAKER_00
You did.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you know what?
2
SPEAKER_01
I took out some of the other stuff, because I didn t.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
2
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, that s funny.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re emoting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, good intent.
2
SPEAKER_00
Good memory of Barry White.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s funny.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, thanks for listening today.
2
SPEAKER_00
You can go to our website, advancedsellingpodcast.com to learn more about some of the products we have.
2
SPEAKER_00
And there s also a program there called the Ultimate Pre Game, which is a free way for you to get access to some of our content.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you want to email us, please send us an email with a question.
2
SPEAKER_00
You can send it as a voicemail question as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
Listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com and we ll get it on the
2
SPEAKER_00
We ve had a lot of those over the last few weeks kind of dried up, so we re ready.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re ready for some more.
2
SPEAKER_00
Make sure you send us that at listenerandadvancesellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_00
See you next time.