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Welcome to the Sell or Die podcast.
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I m your host, Jeffrey Gittler.
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Well, in this podcast, we re going to help you attract more qualified, unbelievable, ready to buy clients.
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And the one thing you re hoping for, blows more deals.
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It s time to sell or die.
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Diehard, I want to introduce you today to the great Andy Horner.
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I confess to you that Andy and I have been friends for a long, long time, but he is one of the smartest, insightful, and creative human beings on the planet.
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And you get to spend a few minutes with him to talk about something in creativity that you have never heard of before.
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And by the time this episode is over, you re going to find out what category of creativity you fit into, because you may say to yourself, I m not that creative when in fact you have not milked your own creative juices yet because they haven t been exposed to yourself.
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Any questions on that so far?
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No.
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Good.
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I hate questions.
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But you can put any question that you have in the chat and we ll retrieve it at some point in time.
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And you ll be able to get to Andy to hire him to do anything you need, because some people need a new logo.
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Some people need a new image, some people need a new life.
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Whatever you need, Andy can help you.
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Please help me welcome the great Andy Horner.
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I know.
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Wow.
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My T-shirt today says it only takes everything you ve got.
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The reason I m wearing that for this episode is that creativity takes energy, it takes focus, but the old word for it is it takes concentration.
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What are you going to concentrate on today that will bring or generate that idea?
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Because most people concentrate on their phone.
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You re looking at the email that you just got and you think you re forced to answer the email.
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Total bullshit.
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Total 100% bullshit.
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So, Andy, how do you define creativity?
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I define creativity as how you make things.
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I think it s how you uniquely make things in your life.
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And by make things, I don t mean craft.
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I mean how you make things that are new.
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And I think every human being is born to make new things.
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And I think that that s really the heart of creativity.
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You make new things by putting two things that were never put together before.
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That s creativity.
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So you combine your brain power with your need to draw a tree and you can draw the tree if you re in that category of creativity.
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Yeah, no, but I don t think that s necessarily creative because you could draw a tree as craft, right?
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A craft is not creativity.
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So a painter, a musician, a drawer, these are an illustrator, whatever.
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This is craft.
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It s not creativity.
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And we tend to say like, oh, that guy draws.
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That kid s creative.
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No, he s drawing.
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That s a craft.
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That s not creativity.
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Creativity is when you draw a tree that nobody has drawn before.
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That s creativity.
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Okay, so you can play the clarinet, but if you can write a song, that s creativity?
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Right.
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If you play a clarinet, you play a song really, really well, that s craft.
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If you could play a song in a new way, where you bring your own signature to it, when you think about the way that Frank Sinatra sang and his phrasing of his songs, that s creativity.
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Not being able to sing a song verbatim to, I can exactly match Frank Sinatra s voice, that s craft.
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Yeah, and you that s pretty interesting.
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And craft is craft is its own skill.
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And it s also great, you know, someone who can sculpt a perfect replica of something else or draw a perfect version of someone s face.
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That s craft.
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That s still impressive.
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It s not as impressive as creativity.
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Wow.
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Well, that puts a whole new meaning on thing.
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But you have to improvise yourself.
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That s creativity.
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So jazz is basic creativity of music that exists.
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Right.
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It already exists.
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This is already made by someone else.
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If you play a perfect jazz piece to how it was written, that s craft.
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That s not creativity.
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But if you could take that jazz piece and you can turn it into something new by bringing your own personality and your own flair, your own creative energy to it, that s creativity.
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I m going to challenge you, Die Hard, to go onto Instagram and look for a group called Tuba Skinny.
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T-U-B-A-S-K-I-N-N-Y.
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It is New Orleans street jazz and Dixieland at its highest degree.
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Because everybody just shows up and plays their own bit in the song.
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And it s amazing.
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Not good.
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It s amazing.
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You can t help but tap your foot.
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They re all tapping their feet.
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They re out on the street someplace.
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Somebody gives them some money.
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I m going to do a mastermind with Jay Abraham and Wyatt Woodsmall.
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And one of the cities we re going to do it in is New Orleans.
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And I m hiring Tuba Skinny to come in and play for the group.
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And it ll just be amazing.
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I ve never heard of Tuba Skinny before.
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That s a new one on me.
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I m telling you, if you like Dixieland anything, these are people that you will immediately love.
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literally immediately love.
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I m sure you re listening to this right now.
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There s a bunch of you that are listening, but do you specifically diehard that you are listening to right now?
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Hit the pause button, find Tuba Skinny on Instagram and check them out.
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I m sure there s someone on YouTube as well, but they re in my feed and they know my algorithm and they pop up.
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I want to talk about something else in creativity when you talked about combining.
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In the 1940s in Berlin, Germany, this was the sign that said go.
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And when it wasn t time to go, this was the sign that said stop.
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So it s a little green guy and a little red guy for those of you who are just listening and not watching.
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And they called him Ampelmann, which is a lit up guy.
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And there are eight stores in Berlin, Germany right now that all they sell is Ampelmann stuff.
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T-shirts, mugs, hats, pencils, pads, backpacks, everything, everything.
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They re at the airport, they re on the street.
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And do I have the Ampelmann hat?
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Of course I do.
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Do I have the Ampleman t-shirt?
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Of course I do.
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And I got the mug.
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And I got it because when I look at it, it s a memory of the city.
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So creativity can create a multi-million dollar business if you look at something and say, okay, how can I take this and make money at it?
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So let s get into Andy Horner right now and find out why he has broken down creativity into four categories.
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Your show.
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So when we think of creativity, we tend to think of one type of person is creative and creative.
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And that s the person who s either a musician, a painter, a designer.
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They re creative.
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I don t I m not creative like that person.
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I do other things.
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Right.
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And I just think that s bogus.
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And I literally used to argue to I was red in the face with my professors in college about this topic.
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And I think that we have to completely reshape how we view creativity as a culture, and it s that everyone is creative.
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If you were born a human being and you re breathing, guess what?
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You re creative.
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However, you re creative in a specific way.
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In fact, you re creative in one of four specific ways.
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And there are only four, and you are one of them.
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You have one primary creative strength of the four, and it is either that you are communicational.
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Communicational is the creative strength that most people assign to a creative person.
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You re a painter, you re communicating ideas through your paint, you re communicating something new through your music, so on and so forth.
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Then you have, after communicational, you have mechanical creativity.
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Mechanical creativity is the other creative strength that is often attributed to someone being creative.
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And that is someone who makes physical things, whether they re in the mind, a construct, whether it s a new philosophical idea.
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Or it could be someone who builds a new type of car engine.
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That s mechanical, dealing with actually assembling things in the mind, in the physical space.
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An architect, very mechanical, building a new space.
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So that s communicational and mechanical.
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Those are the two that we typically say those people are very creative.
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But then you have the two that are the most unappreciated and misidentified.
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And that is, first of all, relational creativity.
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Relational creativity is just as creative as communicational and mechanical people, your ability as being relational is that you have ability to connect people, you connect people you re dealing with the stuff of relationships, those are your, your nuts and bolts those are your gears and cogs.
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I network and I bring people together and form relationships.
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I m great at the emotional side of connecting with people.
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I m great at understanding how they think and work and how to get to know them, how to talk, language, all of those things that help me connect with people, relationships.
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So it s either me developing relationships or me helping other people create relationships.
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That is, we call them networkers, but they re actually relationally creative.
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And it is just as every bit as wide scoping and impressive.
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as communicational or mechanical people.
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And then there s the fourth one, Jeffrey.
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And that one is the one that is usually ruled out as not creative.
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And that one is analytical creativity.
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Analytical creativity are people who have to work in a system that was typically built by someone mechanical.
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And a mechanical creative person creates a system.
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And then what happens is analytical people come into that data structure, architecture, process, way of thinking, and they start to iterate and maximize and optimize inside an already created structure.
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And they can create relationships between that data and those components in a way that even the mechanical person who created it in the first place was not able to develop and connect.
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And so that is an analytical person.
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I know a guy in my life who is a database analyst.
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If I asked him, are you creative?
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He d be like, oh, no, no, no, no.
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I can t even draw a straight line.
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But the truth is, when I talk to him, I see creativity in everything he describes to me about his job.
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So those are the four, communicational, mechanical, relational, and analytical.
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And can you combine those?
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Can I be analytical and communicational?
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Yes.
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So most people have a primary strength and a secondary strength, and then their third and fourth are typically way down, way down, much lower.
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So my primary strength for me is I m communicational.
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I m a storyteller.
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I convey ideas through speech.
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I m communicational.
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But my secondary is mechanical.
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I love actually making things building things in the yard I like working on engines I like working on building Legos when I was a kid, I like making things so I m primarily communicational, and I m secondarily mechanical, my relational skills are very low and people tell me all the time and you re.
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You know, you re so good at relationships.
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I m like, actually, I m very poor at relationships, but I m a really good communicator, which is misinterpreted as relationships.
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So you put me on a stage or you have me tell a story in front of a group of 20 people, I come alive.
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But if you have me walk around and network and try to get to know people, it s extremely hard for me to do.
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So those two things, communication and relationship are confused, but they re very different.
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And then my analytical skills are.
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are actually physically painful for me to have to do something analytical.
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They re so difficult for me to work in that creative space of analytical that is so low in terms of my fourth strength that it actually causes me discomfort to force myself to work on budgets or to balance spreadsheets or to understand how my budgets are not working.
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That s hard for me.
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So yes, your primary and your secondary are really what defines your unique signature of creativity.
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So you might be extremely analytical, and then you re also relational.
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So just imagine what that person can do.
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They can work inside of optimizing code at a company, and they re really good at the management level of talking to all the executives and connecting departments and working with their people.
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because they re relational, but you could have someone who s analytical and mechanical, right?
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So they re really good at working in the system and then also kind of building things within it, but their relational skills are so far down, people think that they re a reclusive hermit because they just don t know how to build relationships very well.
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So yes, your primary and secondary are critical to know those one and two.
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Do you look at them as an introvert as well?
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Yeah, yeah.
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People who are not very relational oftentimes can be seen as introverted.
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However, there are introverts who are extremely relational.
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Their relationships typically manifest, though, in one or two very close relationships.
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You don t typically see them working a room of people.
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Got it.
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The challenge for you, Diehard, is now you ve been given the four things.
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Review them one time.
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Mechanical, communication, communicational,
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Analytical and relational.
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Okay, so relation, communication, mechanical, analytical.
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Those are the four.
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And you have to decide, Diehard, which one do you fit in?
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And I m going to try to get everyone to send me your email address.
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Just put it in the chat and I ll try to get you some response back.
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as to how to develop this in yourself.
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And I m sure Andy has some kind of test or some kind of something that we can send you out to see if you re taking advantage of or capitalizing on your creative process.
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Because you may think of yourself as, I m not that creative, when in fact, according to Andy, everyone is.
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The only question is, at what?
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At what?
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And here s the thing is that you don t say painters are communicationally creative because they re conveying, expressing something through being a painter.
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You can actually have a painter who s any of the four
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Oh, cool.
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What about the guy who can play Wordle every day?
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The guy who s really, really good at Wordle is typically analytically creative.
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And just think about that.
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You said you d be like, man, I can t get any of these.
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It takes me all five or six guesses to get them.
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And this guy gets them in two or three.
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Well, it s just because he understands letters and the system of the alphabet, the system of lexicons and words.
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He understands that system at a much more deeper creative level than you do.
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So it s easier for him.
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But I don t think I m going to smoke you every time.
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I love word games.
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I totally love playing word games because they challenge me intellectually to try to come up with a thing.
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And, you know, I can name that tune in three notes.
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And and so I m always I ve been solving cryptograms and crossword puzzles and wordless for years, literally years.
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I word cookies is my addicted go to on my phone.
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Yeah.
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And that s, and that s you loving doing that is a very creative effort on your part.
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You enjoy the creativity of it.
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It s not just analytical.
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Analytical is not just system.
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So therefore it s not creative.
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Analytical is a person who is working inside of a system and enjoying creating things in that system.
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To me, it s just as impressive as, you know, someone who can sculpt something out of stone.
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Yeah, one was probably be known as a geek, and the other would probably be known as a sculptor.
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Yeah, a geek, a nerd, a weirdo.
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The sculptor is the weirdo.
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Yeah, it s true.
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But just think of it in terms of, I don t think they called Leonardo da Vinci a weirdo.
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I just, you know, they called him an artist or something.
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Yeah, his friends called him a weirdo.
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Really?
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You know, all artists inside their own community are weirdos.
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I wonder if his friends called him like Leon.
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You know what I mean?
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Mikey, Leon has that code coming.
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Okay.
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So we just, yeah, we just, we just did a very important thing here.
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We injected humor into this.
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How important is humor in the creative scale of things?
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You know, the person who s going to be the best at humor in the creative scale is really the communicationally creative person.
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Because humor is an act of communication.
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You re conveying something surprising, unexpected, truthful, shockingly truthful.
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You re communicating something.
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These are putting ideas together and then expressing them.
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That s a creative process of communicationally creative people.
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I think, though, that there s something about humor that s at the highest form of intellect in that language.
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Because if you learn French, or you learn Spanish, or you learn German, and you re an American, the last thing you re going to be able to do is make a joke in Spanish.
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The last thing you re going to be able to do is make a joke in German, because you don t have command of the language.
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Well, have you ever have you ever had?
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Absolutely.
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And have you ever been sitting at a table with a bunch of people and one person is really quiet?
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Everyone s cracking jokes, playing off of each other.
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And that one person sitting quiet and they re not really participating, then all of a sudden they ll open their mouth and make one comment.
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And it s the funniest thing anybody said at the table.
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Yeah, that person is analytically creative.
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They were listening to the whole conversation.
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They were putting together the system that was just being created of the humor, the humor, a moment at that table.
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And then they were thinking about everything everyone s saying, and they work inside that system to come up with the funniest thing anybody said, analytically creative, and humor.
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It takes a lot of patience to do that.
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To wait.
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Yeah, to wait and listen.
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Yeah.
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There s also the element of humor as it relates to listening.
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I ve said for years that at the end of humor is the height of listening.
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I like that.
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A comedian tells a joke and you re laughing till your drink is coming out your nose.
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And the guy starts to talk again.
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You go, wait, wait, wait, he s talking because you want to hear what s next.
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Right.
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You want the next funny thing.
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So I look at it from a standpoint of if you re making me laugh, I m going to listen to what the next thing is.
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Humor leads to creative and a form of listening that s at its highest, highest level.
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Concentrated listening.
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I ll give you an example of listening for humor.
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It was the funniest thing, the funniest moment I personally had, I don t think I ll ever live it again, but I was going back, I was in art school my senior year and there was a rule in our art building at VCU, Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Virginia,
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And our building was on stilts.
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It s a big building, a big white obelisk up on stilts.
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So there was no first floor.
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There was only a second floor.
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That s where it started.
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Four floors high.
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And there was a rule that you don t take the elevator to the first floor because you re an a-hole if you do that, because you just walk up the big steps right there, right?
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So it was like seven o clock in the morning.
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I was bringing a portfolio in.
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It was just a misty morning.
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Nobody was around.
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I was like, I m just going to take the elevator to the first floor because, you know, this is my opportunity.
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No one s awake.
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So I go, I walk in the elevator and there s this, um, pothead, you know, walking three steps behind me.
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I didn t see with his little girlfriend and he, I m like, oh, great.
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You know, the one mom, no one s, no one should even be awake.
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So this guy walks in cause he s turning his portfolio in late too.
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And so he walks in and slinks down to the back of the elevator with his girlfriend.
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And he, before the doors close, he s like, what a jerk.
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I had to punch this guy in the nose for taking the elevator to the first floor.
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I mean, what kind of a, he just starts ripping me a new one quietly to his girlfriend, knowing that I can very well hear everything he s saying.
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And I m feeling like, what do I do?
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Do I turn around and confront him?
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Do I ignore it?
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I mean, what do you do in a situation like this when this guy is obviously giving me the business, shaming me in front of his girlfriend, and I m sitting there listening to everything he s saying, and I ask myself the question, what s the funniest thing I can do in this moment?
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And so on the first floor, the doors open up and I limp off the elevator.
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Oh, cool.
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Just a big limp as if you have got something major wrong with my leg.
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And about three steps out of the elevator, I hear his girlfriend hit him and says, such a big jerk.
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And the guy s like, how was I supposed to know?
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And then the door closes and I m like, that s justice.
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But you have to be listening for that moment.
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There s a clip of an old Woody Allen movie when he s standing on line in Annie Hall, and some guy behind him is talking about Marshall McLuhan and some other thing.
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And Woody Allen is like talking to the audience and going, I hate people like this.
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This is such a jackass.
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And then the guy behind me goes, what do you mean I m a jackass?
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I took the Marshall McLuhan course.
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He says, why don t we just ask Marshall McLuhan?
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And he goes behind the thing.
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And Marshall McLuhan comes out and confronts the guy.
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And he says, you re totally wrong.
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You never listened to one thing I said.
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And Woody Allen s just like, see?
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Like the classic confrontation of calling somebody out and proving to them that they re an asshole.
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And you can t do that.
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You can t drag these people around with you.
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They don t show up like that.
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But look at the opportunity.
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What he did was he made it a reality.
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Woody took the movie creatively and said, you know, I m going to show every jerk on the planet that they re wrong.
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I m going to also show the people that think that they re wrong, that they re right.
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So cool.
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It was just so well done.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, you told me early on in our friendship that, I don t know, we were talking in one of your flats one day and you said, comedy is something you have to study.
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You have to study it to truly understand humor.
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And I think that s really, you know, if you want to be good, first of all, communicational creativity, Jeffrey, is what I call the key creative strength.
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Because all four of them have to be decent at communication because you have to talk to people.
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You have to convey your ideas.
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You have to influence people.
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And so that s the key creative skills.
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Everybody s got to learn a little bit of humor in order to connect with people.
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I m going to throw something at you that I hope you, the diehard, will take into very serious consideration.
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Creativity is not an art.
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It s a science.
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learn it.
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And the same way writing is a science, the same way communicating is a science.
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It s not an art.
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It s not the art of communication.
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It s the science of communication of how you do it.
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What elements do you bring into it?
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How do you explain it?
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How do you present it?
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Or how do you perform it?
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And to me, when somebody says, well, there s the art of selling, I go, there is no art of selling.
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Maybe there s an art that says making sure the other person perceives that you re not selling them.
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But the science of selling is what will get you the right question, the right answer, the right motive, the right emotion, the right answer when they answer a question.
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That s the science of it.
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And creativity is a science.
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There s no doubt about it.
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I think that creativity is something that can be learned, which makes it a science.
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I don t think art can be learned.
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I don t disagree with you there.
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I think art is art.
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Art of art.
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Yeah.
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I think that art is actually an aspect of creativity.
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I think that creativity is a science.
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I agree with you on that.
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But I think that you can reach some people and it s not everyone.
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This is very small amount of people can reach a certain level because of their own
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However they re born, something they re born with, they reach a certain level of creative expression and creative power that it becomes art.
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I think of someone like Michael Jackson.
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Michael Jackson was at a place where his originality was so above the realm of most people.
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He was creating at such an original level that it became art.
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He became an artist.
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And that could be anybody.
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It could be a mother.
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It could be a philosopher.
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It could be a technician.
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It could be anybody.
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Anybody can reach a level of art, but it is the highest form of creative ability.
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And it usually overtakes the person in terms of all of their passion.
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It seems to consume their life, but a true artist is just the highest form of creative ability.
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My friend, the artist in New Orleans, Alex Beard, combines mathematics with art.
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Like he ll draw figures from a circle, or he ll draw figures from a square, and he ll combine all of these things to where they kind of look like they fit into this M.C.
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Escher kind of drawing, but it s a whole different thing.
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So some artists are definitely mathematic the way they do things.
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Yeah, any of the four creative strengths can become an artist.
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Yeah, an artist is not Picasso.
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You know, art is not just a musician.
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It can be any of the four creative strengths you can have.
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You know, I would say that someone like Elon Musk, I don t know him, but to me, he s extremely mechanical, probably mechanical and analytical, which allow him to be the kind of engineer in mind that he is.
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But I would say that he is an artist as a mechanic.
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He certainly has figured out how to earn dollars.
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I mean, you got to give him take it.
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He s a real jackass.
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No, no.
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Leave them alone.
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Okay, that brings up a topic.
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So where do you feel like, Jeffrey, that the role of fear and courage comes into creativity?
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Well, if you have a lot of fear, I think it s going to hamper your creative juice.
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It s going to lock it down and not allow you the full expression of who you can become.
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I think that if you listen to Elon Musk, he doesn t give a shit about anybody or anything.
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Look, I got what I got.
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If you don t like it, fuck it.
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And he s definitely on that path.
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He knows he knows that his creativity is important to him, important to the world.
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And he believes so he believes so with such conviction that what he s doing creatively is so important.
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People do not stand in the way of that.
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People s opinions don t stand in the way of that at all.
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So let s go back to a one generation earlier creative person in Steve Jobs.
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He creates the iPod.
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He creates the iPhone.
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He creates the iPad that no one had before.
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Nobody.
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Everyone copies it.
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Microsoft is the greatest copier on the planet.
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They re not the originator.
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And you have to look at this from the perspective of how did this guy do this?
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What was he thinking?
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And the answer was he wasn t thinking like anyone else.
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In 1984, when the Think Different commercial came out, it was all about thinking differently and showing it in a different way.
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I have a 1984 Apple.
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I m the luckiest guy on the planet.
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I have a 128K Apple, and I have all the original stuff, the original keyboard, everything.
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I got it in a box.
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It s iconic.
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I think here s how to think about that Apple that you have.
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That Apple, in my mind, is every bit as much of a sculpture, like the sculpture David by Michelangelo.
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Every bit of a sculpture, it s only that Michelangelo is communicational, expressing things through sculpture.
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Steve Jobs was expressing things through engineering.
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They re just as creative as one or the other.
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That apple is a sculpture.
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It s a classic sculpture.
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And if you look at it, 1984, it s only 50 years old.
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But look what it does.
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Yeah.
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Look what it s done.
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Actually, it s 40.
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Who s counting?
84, 94, 14.
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84, 94, 04, 14, 20.
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Yeah.
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My first computer was the Apple II.
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Oh, really?
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You predated me a little bit on that.
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I m old fucker Apple.
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I was being trendy.
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I bought it for Stacy and Erica.
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At the time, we re about 10 years old.
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And they go, Dad, I don t want a computer.
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I m like, all right, I ll take it to work.
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And that, by miracle,
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But it s my decision.
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I ll take it to work.
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Just that decision to say, I ll take it to work and what that did to your bringing that technology into your creative space.
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And it, you know, the dot matrix printer and all the shit that went with it.
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And there was a, I bought for 750 bucks, an external drive called the Photon something or other, named after Star Wars stuff.
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It had 30 megabytes of power, 30 megabytes.
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In other words, one naked,
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word file in today s world.
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And that drove everything I had.
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It drove the PowerPoint, it drove the Excel, it drove the Word, it drove everything, because the average word file was 4 megabytes, 4K, sorry.
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Yeah, and the innovations it took to get that computer to that distance is massive.
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And every single one of those leaps in innovation
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were a little creative explosion, but they were not communicational.
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They were mechanical and analytical.
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So we just need to, like, when we see something made that s amazing and changes everything as creative, we need, we can identify how was that, what type of creative people made that, that was made by analytical people working with mechanical people to come together to create this new thing.
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It didn t need communicational people and it didn t need relational people.
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It needed those other two skills.
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So DieHard, you can either combine your own talents or you can find someone with a talent like the one you need and combine it with what you have to make some kind of a partnership.
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And that s the thing.
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Yeah, not only are you looking for new ideas, putting new things together, you re also looking for putting people together with you so you can enhance your ability to create.
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So if I m communicational, I may not need a lot of other communicational people around me.
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I may need to look for mechanical people and analytical people.
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If I m building a business, I want to get the whole scope of creativity around me so we can have our best chance of being innovative and making something new.
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So let me throw this at you, Dayard.
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I want you to think about Elton John and Bernie Taupin.
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One had music, one had words, and they combined that into one of the greatest musical partnerships of all time.
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Now let s look at the other side of it and bring in Lennon and McCartney, both of whom basically did the same thing.
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They wrote songs and they performed songs, but one was always trying to outperform the other, and they had all the other stuff around them.
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They had all the musicians, they had all the
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mechanics, they had all the producers, they had all everything, and their job was just be better than the next guy the next time.
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So one person can challenge your creative juices to be better.
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Yeah, think about the Beach Boys with Pet Sounds going up against the Beatles with Sgt.
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Pepper.
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You know, I mean, that battle created some of the greatest innovations in music.
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Oh, yeah.
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Of sheer just hating each other because the other person is so creative and you respect them so much, you just can t stand it.
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But I m going to tell you, people are going to go, oh, the Beatles were better.
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Really?
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Go listen to All Summer Long.
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Go listen to Fun Fun Fun.
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Go listen to I Get Around.
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Go listen to Be True to Your School.
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Beach Boys all day long.
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Okay, so there s a movie called Stargirl.
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And Stargirl, it s about this weirdo person who comes to the school as an outcast.
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And literally, um,
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takes the school and the football team, and by her support and what she does for them, creates a whole championship atmosphere in the school.
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And at a football game, she plays Be True to Your School on a ukulele in the middle of the field during a football game during halftime.
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And the crowd goes nuts.
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The crowd goes nuts.
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And the other song in there is The Cars, where the father and the son are in the car just jamming.
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It s a phenomenal movie.
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It s a phenomenal movie.
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And what you need to understand is the music combines with the script to create this genius outcome.
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And it plays a major role in you understanding the movie.
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Really cool.
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Like whoever crafted those lyrics, the dialogue for the movie, they were freaking genius.
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And then they picked the best players on the planet to play the role so that the movie becomes iconic.
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Look at Wednesday.
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Look at Stranger Things.
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You know, look at the look, the things that are iconic in our society right now, even the Gilmore Girls.
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There s I think there s an element to talk about in there, too, is that why why do some things rise above others in terms of capturing attention, capturing the imagination of people like Stranger Things?
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Why did why was that so big?
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And then others who seem to have the same level of cinematography, they seem to have the same type of, you know, plot genre.
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Why does Stranger Things rise above all the others to captivate Game of Thrones?
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Same thing.
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How did that happen?
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What, was it purely functional or was it something else?
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Well, let s look at the outcome.
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First of all, the, the ones that fell by the wayside, they got canceled.
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They were like thrown away.
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This show sucks.
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It s not getting the ratings, whatever it is.
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And meanwhile, this other show was like off the chart, millions of people, thousands of, you know, new ideas that sprung from it.
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Uh, the, the ephemera that goes with it, the t-shirts, the, the tote bags and all the other crap.
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People dressing up as you for Halloween, your characters.
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My God.
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You know how many people dressed up as Ghostbusters with their lawnmower, with their leaf blower?
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form of creativity, by the way, brings out the creative juice.
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But what you re saying here is somebody out created the other guy.
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Yeah.
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And I think there s a there s an extra skill.
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And I think that that s where we touch on art a little bit.
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But it has to do with a philosophy that Max Wertheimer came up with in the 20th century, early 20th century, it was the idea of gestalt psychology.
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And it s a very simple principle.
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It just means that some people have parts.
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And when you look at what they make, they re just parts.
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They look like everybody else s parts.
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But some people are able to put those parts together in such a way that they become greater than the sum of the parts.
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The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
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And that whole, people can relate to that whole.
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It s almost like a room full of black light bulbs, light bulbs that have not been turned on.
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It s just a dark room.
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You bang into them, but nobody sees anything special.
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you turn one of those light bulbs on, everyone s attracted to it.
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That s what Gestalt is.
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When all the pieces come together in a way that is, creatively, come together in a way that is greater than the sum of the parts, you have something that explodes in people s mind, their imagination.
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Let me put it onto a basketball floor.
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There was a coach who I loved named Jack Ramsey.
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He coached for the St.
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Joseph s Hawks, and then ultimately the Philadelphia 76ers, and then ultimately the Portland Trailblazers.
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And he developed a thing in coaching called whole part whole, where he got the team together and he explained the big picture, like this is what s going to happen.
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And then he took each individual player and said, this is your part.
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This is what you got to do to be able to make this happen.
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So everybody knew their role.
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And then he d bring the whole team together and say, OK, now you guys know your role.
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Execute.
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And he won games that he should never have won.
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He beat the Philadelphia 76ers, where all five of the starters are in the Hall of Fame.
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Think about that.
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Yeah, it was the team was the whole.
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It wasn t just the sum of the parts.
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It wasn t just a team of nine players or 20 players.
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It was what that team became that enabled them to become great.
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Yeah.
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I mean, you think about like Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, that team came together in something special.
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They won championships, you know, it s this, you know,
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And I think when you look at LeBron James, I would say he s never been on a team that actually became a great team.
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Correct.
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Every time the team, even the championships he won the next year, the team was gone.
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Yeah.
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He s a great part, but he s just on a team with other parts.
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It never comes together as a whole.
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He s never enjoyed that.
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He s never had a team that became a true team.
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And I think that s why we don t see him with a certain level of greatness as like a Jordan.
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At least I don t.
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And he s a winner.
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Um, but I ll tell you one other thing.
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If you look like I look at old stuff, I look at the Larry Bird and I look at Michael Jordan and Chicago won a championship one year where in the huddle, Michael Jordan, who you thought was going to take the last shot of the game, said, look, John Paxton s really hot.
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Let s just give him the ball.
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Oh man.
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And he hits a three pointer and they win the game.
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But it was Jordan understanding the players on the court.
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He understood what was going on beyond his own skill level.
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He didn t win for ego.
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He won for team.
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Big deal.
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Big deal.
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I think that element, Jeffrey, is what people look at and call it the X factor.
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I think when people say the X factor, it s an intangible, it s an abstract idea that makes something a little bit better than just what everything else is, is that you have the X factor.
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And I think that those teams had an X factor that you have a hard time defining.
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Yeah.
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They had skills, but they also had heart.
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Yeah.
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And they had moxie to be able to pull it off.
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And they came together as a one unit.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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They were genuinely a team.
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They weren t
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Michael Jordan s team.
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They were the Chicago Bulls.
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That s a good question for you in business, right?
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For your diehards out there.
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Are you the LeBron James, just one great player on a team of pieces and parts, or are you able to form, working with your ability to form people around you, and you become a team that is something greater than just the people, it becomes that X factor.
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If you can do that, I think you can propel your business
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in a way that you can t just as being those pieces, you re something much, much more formidable than that.
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You re a whole you re a you re a great team.
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Yeah, people look at you and they go, holy shit, look at that guy.
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And Apple is a classic example of that.
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Yeah, they re doing everything combined into one thing and putting that one product out there that looks flawless.
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And then you take all the other companies look at what they put out there like, Oh, crap, we got we now we all got to go back to the drawing board.
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Exactly.
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Our AI headset is not cool enough.
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Our AR headset is not cool enough.
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We got to go back.
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Apple just completely reimagined the whole thing.
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Let s start over.
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And they re getting ready to do that with AI, by the way.
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Their next big conference this coming later this year is all about AI.
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And I think that they re going to, when you look at
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OpenAI and ChatGPT and Gemini for Google and all the things that are we re doing, all these apps that are leveraging all those platforms.
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I think Apple is going to be coming out with something that s going to be so game-changing that it s going to upset.
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And I don t think it s going to be necessarily the technology that s so game-changing.
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I think it s going to be the business model.
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They re going to bring a new business model to AI that changes everything.
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It ll be exciting, that s for sure.
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I mean, I m playing in the AI world.
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Every time I look at it, I realize how stupid I am.
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It totally erases anything you ve ever thought about in the past with respect to how you get ideas back and how you give ideas in.
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I can t create without it now.
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I use it for everything I do.
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Yeah.
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I m not 100%, but I m 100% helping other people who are really on it, helping me put all my stuff into a response vehicle.
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I want to have an Ask Jeffrey AI platform.
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where I take all my books, all my courses, all my Instagrams, all of my YouTubes, put everything together in one and just ask me anything about anything.
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Even the podcast can go in there.
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Yeah, and it can provide answers that you as Jeffrey Gittemer couldn t even come back with as fast and as thorough.
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Correct.
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Not only that, this platform is so cool that where it draws the information from, it will also show that to you so you can click on it and get the front part and the back part.
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So if I quote out of a page in one of my books, it ll show the exact page that it came from.
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Wow.
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That s cool.
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Yeah.
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That s awesome.
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It s going to be amazing.
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And, um, no one works as fast as I do in my mind.
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Like, what do you mean?
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It s going to take another week.
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Just work later tonight.
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Hurry up.
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I know, I know.
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Waiting on engineering and waiting on those processes in business is so hard when you want to move at the speed of creativity.
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Yeah.
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The speed of creativity is an actual metaphor.
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What is the speed of creativity?
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What are you doing with your creative juices that allows you to get where you want a little bit further, a little bit faster?
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Or when you get this idea, it s so monumental that it holds you back because you ve got to build it.
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Think about that.
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Because I can come up with a tweet in the morning using my creative juices, and it s out there in two seconds.
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But I got to write a book and that s going to take two years, right?
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Yeah, that s that s hard to do, because, you know, I think to get things done as a creative person, you have to iterate things, you know, you have to get it started.
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And sometimes if you re perfectionistic about your creativity, you re going to try to do it perfectly the first time.
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You can t do that.
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You got to just express it somehow, get it out in an early form, put it out there.
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So Diehard, this is the first of a couple of podcasts that we re going to do with Andy.
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He s freaking brilliant.
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He understands the creative process and he uses the creative process.
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I ll show you an example.
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Here s Andy Horner in action.
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I said, Andy, I m the king of sales, make me a logo.
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And what he did is he took all of his ideas and put different crowns on the top of the G. And in his brilliance, he picked the one that we use.
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If you can see it, it s right in the center of the screen.
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Cause it look how cool it looks compared to all the others.
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It just fit.
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And that genius is the guy we re going to talk to about your genius and what you re missing or what you re not taking advantage of in your own genius diehard.
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And that s the challenge of the day.
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Take your creative process and turn it into an idea or into an expression that you can turn into money.
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Thank you, Andy.
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Yeah, great, great job.
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And diehard, you go out and sell something, even if your ass falls off.
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Cheers.
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Thanks for listening to the show.
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Don t forget to like, share.
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Yeah, share with both your friends.
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And subscribe to the podcast.
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And remember, we have a free 22-day sales challenge.
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Just go to gittimer.com to start you on your way.