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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running and largest sales training podcast in the history of podcasts and sales training podcasts.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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Hey, I m Bear, Brian, Neil, Aaron.
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We would love to come out and see you.
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And we ve done this about four or five times already this year.
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And a lot of people are starting to plan fall retreats, fall sales meetings, fall strategic planning meetings, whatever.
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If you want Brian or I or both,
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to get on the phone and talk a little bit about your upcoming event.
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We would love to do that.
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We ve got a few of those scheduled.
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And so let us know.
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You can send us an email to listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com, and we will make it special.
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I m on the road to Cleveland the week after next to go see a listener group.
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It s really great.
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And I think we re going to be heading to some fun places, aren t we?
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I think so.
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You and I together?
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We think.
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A couple irons in the fire.
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We can t say anything about fun destination.
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Yeah.
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No.
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Yeah, very fun destination.
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So Hey, I m just off my you know, I went to go see Gary Vaynerchuk.
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Oh, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I know that and it was really great if you don t follow Gary Vaynerchuk you should
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And be prepared, if you follow them as a group, they re very, very active on all social media.
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So if you start to follow them, you re going, oh my gosh, there s a lot here.
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And they ve just done a great job branding.
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But some really great ideas for us that you ll probably see, Bill and I will talk about implementing some of those here in our podcast.
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But really, really great people, really warm.
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The biggest thing I took away from them is a great lesson for all companies.
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is that they practice what they preach.
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Everything that they do, they do.
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They do.
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Which I love that.
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It s really important to us.
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In other words, they don t just say to shoot video occasionally.
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No.
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They re just always doing it.
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They do it.
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They do it.
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And so I m a big fan of people that dispense advice, that they follow their own advice, which we work really hard to do here at the podcast, and hope that you do too.
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So pay attention to yourself.
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Do a little self-audit.
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Do I preach what I practice?
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Do I practice what I preach?
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Either one.
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And he s got a PDF, like a slideshow, that s 88, 89 slides.
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I think if you go to Google and just put in Gary Vaynerchuk.
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Content funnel, or content pyramid, or something like that.
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Put 88 slides, because I know it s 88, and I think that s what it s called.
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But go in, and there s a lot there.
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It really causes you to rethink what marketing is today.
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Totally.
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And sales professionals, especially sales leaders, sales managers, CEOs, we ve got to understand marketing.
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It s a marketing game before it s a selling game.
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If you re not getting leads coming in and you re not out there building your brand, it makes it too hard on the sales teams.
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What doesn t apply anymore is a salesperson sitting there thinking, I don t have enough leads because marketing is not doing their job.
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Because you can be your own marketer.
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You can be your own marketer.
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You re listening to it right now.
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Like it or not, we love doing this show.
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We put out great content.
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And it s part of our marketing plan.
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It s what we do.
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So there s that.
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That s good.
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I had a couple of things I heard.
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Do you ever hear somebody on a podcast and they start to use these words like, I ve got a few over here.
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They re not buzzwords the way we ve talked about buzzwords with some of the SAS products.
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I heard a guy the other day talking about how disruptive he was.
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Oh, as an individual?
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Well, his company is disruptive in the market.
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Yes, very buzzy.
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Very buzzy.
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Very buzzy.
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And I looked at the Inc Top 10 list, and they said that s one word you ve got to stop using, disruptive.
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Good, I agree.
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But I think it s OK to be that and to think about it that way.
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But when you self-describe yourself that way, I think that s the problem.
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Can I guess some of the others?
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Yeah, go ahead.
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Is content on the list?
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No.
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Oh, it was on.
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It was on Inks list.
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Yeah, but it s not on my list.
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I ve got a client who s now they ve gone a circle with a line through it over content.
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They don t say content anymore.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, it s good.
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Move the needle, it says.
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Lose that one.
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Crush it.
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Speaking of Gary Vee.
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He wrote a book called Crush It.
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He s got stuff.
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It s funny.
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But I don t think it was bad then.
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I just think it s been overused.
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Yeah, he doesn t care.
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He doesn t care.
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Reach out.
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Inc.
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says no more reaching out.
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No more curating.
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Curating content.
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No more girl boss.
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I m not really that familiar with the girl boss concept, but they said it s used a lot for female leaders.
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She s the girl boss.
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And he said, yeah, enough of that.
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Open the kimono.
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Oh, jeez.
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I ve used that from time to time.
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It always has a bad visual to me.
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But open the kimono.
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I said, no, no, no.
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Most people that say that, I d care not to have that occur.
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That s true.
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Going on record.
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Find my truth.
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Oh, yeah.
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I m not big on that.
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Is passion on there?
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No, no, it wasn t on any list.
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Here s one that s on my list is intentional.
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I m wanting to be more intentional about this, as opposed to unintentional.
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I had no intention of making this call to you, but if I wanted to pick it up in my hand, I had no intention.
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But I know what people mean is more thoughtful and more strategic.
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Do you ever self-coach?
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Do you ever audit what you do and say?
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Oh, yeah.
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Constantly, every 20 seconds.
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I did that over the weekend.
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I ve been saying this thing, trying to stay humble, and I say, this isn t a brag statement, and then I ll say something.
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Oh, OK.
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I m like, if you ve got to say this isn t a brag statement, it s a brag statement.
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You should probably shut the hell up.
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You know what I mean?
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I ve never heard you say that, but I would agree with you.
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Yeah.
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It s when you re like the hero of the story, or you say something that s good.
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And a couple of times, I m like, what?
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I don t want to totally so I m like what am I saying?
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I m like as it s coming out of my mouth like this isn t a brag statement.
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If I were listening to that, I would say yeah.
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If you ve got to say it s not a brag statement, it probably is right.
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If you say humble brag, humble brag.
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Yeah.
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Instead, I should probably just leave with I m just going to brag on myself for a second here.
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So you all listen, you know, yeah, I got to stop saying that or you could say, you know, I actually I don t know.
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I don t know how I did this, but here s what happened.
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Yeah, I have no clue.
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This will probably end up being a mistake and a bad move, but I did exactly.
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Hey, before we get to the topic, which is going to be a really good one, I ve got a question for you.
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of all revenue generating teams.
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You can check them out at outreach.io forward slash ASP to chat with them and receive a free copy of their new book.
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Brian, you know we love our friends at PandaDoc.
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Well, with PandaDoc, you can create, send, track, and e-sign beautiful proposals and quotes faster than making a single cold call.
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They ve even got a new ebook that discusses the 10 essential elements your proposal must have.
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Go to pandadoc.com forward slash ASP to download that book for free.
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So if you need help creating beautiful sales proposals and quotes, you should check out Pandadoc.
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You can look like a billion dollar business without spending like one.
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And you can go to pandadoc.com slash ASP.
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All right, we ve got a guest today.
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His name is Lee Salz.
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He wrote a book called Sales Differentiation.
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Here s the interview we did with him.
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I think you ll enjoy it.
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All right, we are speaking today with Lee Salz.
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Lee, welcome to the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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Bill, thank you so much.
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Lee and I have been working together off and on for about 17 years trying to get together on this interview.
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I have been following Lee and I know Brian has too.
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I ve read his books and he s really a genius when it comes to sales and sales process and sales differentiation.
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One of his latest books the one he wrote last year is called sales differentiation He wrote a book a few years ago called higher right higher profits number one sales management book on Amazon for 2014 But I really like his new book sales differentiation and Lee so we want to get into this a little bit But tell us how give us a minute on who you are and how you got your beginning and what s the story of origin of Lee sauce?
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Sure, so I m gonna be
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politically incorrect for a moment you ll understand in a moment i ve been passionate about this subject of differentiation since i was a teenager a friend of the family decided to start a business which was pick up and delivery dry cleaning he didn t own the dry cleaning stores
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decided, you know what, I think there s an opportunity here that people will pay more for someone to come to their home, pick up their laundry, and drop it off.
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So he contracted with a couple of cleaners in town and then he needed a driver, which was my summer job one year.
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And that was really what first piqued my interest in the subject of different
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I was 16, 17 years old at the time.
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I guess I was 17 because you can t drive in New Jersey until you re 17.
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And I was intrigued that people were willing to pay more even though the dry cleaning was exactly the same because the service experience was different.
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So I like to say I got pregnant with the idea as a teenager.
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But it wasn t until now that I was ready to jump out and share it all with the world, and I m 50.
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That s a long time, long incubation period.
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Yeah, you incubated that for a long time, and I don t think that was too politically incorrect.
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Well, I get the pregnant in high school part, you know.
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Oh, that was the part.
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Life happens sometimes, right?
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That s more accurate than not.
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I thought it was more about the differentiation, more about we re all trying to be the same and you re searching for differentiation.
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That s where I thought the politically incorrect part came out.
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So you have witnessed a lot of, you ve observed a lot of sales teams, sales forces in your years and as a trainer and consultant and coach.
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So what prompted you to write the book, Sales Differentiation?
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What were you seeing that caused you to say, enough, I just got to do this?
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Yeah, and so there was this message that built up inside of me from those teenage years.
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And having built sales forces in a number of different companies, different industries, there s one issue that I found salespeople consistently struggle with.
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And that is positioning value commensurate with the price that they ve put in front of a prospect.
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So in the absence of that, the entire conversation
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around that transaction is a price war, eating up on price.
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Because if you haven t demonstrated enough value, if you haven t differentiated yourself enough in the process, the only conversation that prospect is gonna wanna have with you is, can we get it cheaper?
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And so that s what was inside of me that I wanted to help salespeople win more deals at the prices they wanted.
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Love it.
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Love it.
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Love it.
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Brian Neal here.
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We switched voices.
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When you observe and coach sales teams, and you see this has been a problem for a long time, I m curious if you think the problem of sales differentiation, given the information available
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via Google and the internet to buyers these days is getting harder and harder.
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In other words, the book that you ve written, Sales Differentiation, is beautiful.
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Do you think it s going to be out of date sooner than if had you written it in 1988?
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That s a great question.
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And one of the things that I share with salespeople, well, first, I ask them a question.
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Who knows more about the world of potential solutions in your industry?
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You?
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were the people you sell to.
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Great.
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That s great.
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Brian, I ve never had a salesperson say to me, Oh, the people that I sell to know much more about the world of potential solutions in my industry, not one.
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So even though we have access to information on the internet, it doesn t mean we are creating educated buyers.
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We still know more than they do.
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And because of that, I believe we have both an obligation and an opportunity.
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If you re in sales, I believe you have an obligation to help people make an informed buying decision.
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The opportunity comes because they don t know how to buy what you re selling to shape buyer decision criteria.
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So one of the things I do in my talks, I regularly ask audiences to raise their hands.
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if they can tell me the difference between an organic apple and a regular apple.
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and there is never more than a couple of hands that go up.
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And they re lying.
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And who are those people, I gotta ask?
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Right?
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Exactly.
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They can taste the same.
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Everyone in the room knows there s one big difference, which is organic fruit is a heck of a lot more expensive than the regular fruit.
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Right.
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But if you research it, there are meaningful differences with organic apples in contrast to regular ones.
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All we know is price.
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This is a product we are buying every single week.
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And we don t know how to make an informed decision on an apple.
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You think they know how to buy what you re selling?
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Yeah, that s a great example.
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So no, there is no concern whatsoever of this whole idea of educated consumers wiping away the entire sales profession.
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Now, if you re in the sales group who doesn t add value in the process, who doesn t develop expertise to be able to guide people to make an informed buying decision,
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If the sole reason you re in the sales profession is to pad your wallet, you re in trouble.
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We are speaking today with Lee Salls.
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You can find out more about Lee and order his book at salesarchitects.com, salesarchitects.com.
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He s got a really active LinkedIn group, and he s big on LinkedIn.
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You can go to LinkedIn and look up Lee Salls, S-A-L-L-Z.
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Lee, in the time we have left, I want to take a couple of these sales differentiation concepts you ve created and crafted and developed.
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Give us one that we can talk to our listeners about today that will help
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our audience become more effective this afternoon in sales?
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What s one differentiation concept?
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Well, if you are taking differentiators and just tossing them out and leaving them for your buyer to decide what it means, you re in trouble.
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Why?
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Because they re either never going to figure it out or they re going to give it a meaning that is not going to help your sale.
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I worked with a group, and I said, share with me a differentiator that you talk about.
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And they said, we re privately held.
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I said, well, that s wonderful.
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Tell me why that matters to a buyer.
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Not one person in the room could answer the question.
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And I said, wait a minute.
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You ve been touting for 40 years, 40 years, that you re privately held, expecting it to be meaningful to a buyer.
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Yet none of you can tell me why it matters.
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So they start chirping to each other.
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Yeah, I bet they tried to tell you, and you weren t buying it, right?
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I mean, they probably, well, you know, let me tell you, Lee, why this matters.
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And then it was all just gibberish.
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And you said, no, come on, you can do better than that.
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Because people always try.
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It never got that far.
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Oh, they didn t?
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It never got that far.
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They couldn t even open their mouth.
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Their answer was, we ve got to stop talking about that.
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It doesn t matter.
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And then I stopped him and I said, well, wait a minute.
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But before we do that, how many of you worked in a publicly traded company and half of them had, I said in a publicly traded company, what is the a number one priority?
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It s the numbers, right?
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If so, if you re the head of customer service and you say, boy, I need 10 more head count than what s been budgeted for me.
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Yeah.
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You re not getting that.
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Cause it s going to distort the numbers.
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You said you re a privately held company.
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What is the a number one priority and they all got it their clients?
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Mm-hmm.
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I said isn t there a story there?
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Yeah, because all their competitors are publicly traded and There was and we spent time putting it together.
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That s great.
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Yeah, but just saying privately held means nothing.
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That s right Yeah means nothing
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Yeah.
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If sales differentiation will work, you have to position a differentiator, help someone to see why it s meaningful.
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That s great.
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I love that you re coaching story around that, too, because it s got to come in story form.
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It can t come in bullet soundbite form.
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Lee, do you think that salespeople these days can differentiate as much by process as they can by content or lingo in a sales pitch or a sales process?
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Sure, so I ll frame that a little bit differently.
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In my book, Sales Differentiation, it s broken into two halves.
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There s sales differentiation in what you sell and sales differentiation in how you sell.
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So what you sell is looking at every aspect of what you re selling and looking for differentiators.
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The other side of it is looking at every interaction between yourself and a buyer and saying, what can I do different than my competition?
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that a buyer would find meaningful.
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And that s what you do to differentiate in how you sell.
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I ve identified opportunities in every interaction between seller and buyer, from how you prospect all the way through when they ask for references and beyond.
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Opportunities to be different.
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But let me highlight what I mean by differentiating how you sell.
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My son, Steven, is a high school baseball player.
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And when he was a junior, my wife and I were all over him saying, hey, you ve got to set up college visits.
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And I m sure like most teenagers, he was a little slow in doing that.
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Well, in June, he was playing in an American Legion baseball tournament.
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And if you re familiar with American Legion, this is where all the college scouts come out to look for talent.
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And during the course of a one-week tournament, he hit four home runs and three doubles.
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We didn t ask Steven to set up any more college visits.
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But if you ve ever been through the college recruiting process, this is a sale.
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These coaches are trying to sell you on their institution, but they can t differentiate what they sell.
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They can t add a major, they can t move to campus, right?
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It is what it is.
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SPEAKER_00
The sole set of tools that they have to work with is differentiating how they sell.
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SPEAKER_00
So I ll give you an example.
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SPEAKER_00
You know how when you first visit a college campus, as soon as you cross onto the campus, your blood pressure jumps up about 30 points?
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SPEAKER_00
Why?
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SPEAKER_00
Can t find a place to park.
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SPEAKER_00
Every single parking lot says, you must have a permit or we re going to tow you.
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SPEAKER_00
But welcome to our university.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, so one of the schools we pull up and there s a parking spot with Stephen s name on it.
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SPEAKER_01
Nice touch, nice touch.
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SPEAKER_00
Different, right?
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SPEAKER_00
Then we go inside, there s an agenda for the day printed out with Stephen s name at the top.
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SPEAKER_00
What did it cost that university to do that?
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SPEAKER_00
Right, the cost of a piece of paper, a little bit of ink.
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SPEAKER_00
But how much did they differentiate themselves in the process?
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SPEAKER_00
Another university said, Stephen, when you get here, send me a text.
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SPEAKER_00
So we get there and it s raining that day and he sends the coach a text saying we got there Three players come walking out with golf umbrellas to escort us into the building is great a six-pack Right, so then we sit down with the coach and he says I hope you don t mind I didn t invite an admissions counselor to do the tour I m gonna do it
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SPEAKER_01
Awesome.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, nice touch.
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SPEAKER_00
It s been a half day with us.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s good.
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SPEAKER_01
Hey, we re speaking with Lee Sals today.
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SPEAKER_01
Lee, thanks for being so generous with your time today.
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SPEAKER_01
And it s a great book.
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SPEAKER_01
It s called Sales Differentiation.
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SPEAKER_01
You can find out more about Lee at salesarchitects.com.
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SPEAKER_01
And Lee, we need to do this again.
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SPEAKER_01
We need to do it again where we can get into some more of these differentiators, because this is really good stuff.
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SPEAKER_01
We should do a series.
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SPEAKER_01
We should do a Lee Sals series.
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SPEAKER_01
A Lee Sals series.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, hopefully it won t take us an eternity to pull that one off.
2
SPEAKER_00
You guys are like those locusts.
2
SPEAKER_02
Those locusts that come out every 17 years.
2
SPEAKER_02
Why don t you take it from here?
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SPEAKER_02
You do the scheduling.
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SPEAKER_01
I d love to come back.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay.
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SPEAKER_01
Thanks, Lee.
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SPEAKER_01
Appreciate it, man.
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SPEAKER_01
See ya.
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SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
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SPEAKER_01
So we appreciate Lee coming in.
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SPEAKER_01
He actually digitally came in.
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SPEAKER_01
He transformed himself in.
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SPEAKER_01
I actually gave you the wrong website.
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SPEAKER_02
The better website is salesdifferentiation.com.
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SPEAKER_02
Salesdifferentiation.com.
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SPEAKER_02
And what you get there, if you go to salesdifferentiation.com and buy the book there, in addition to the book, you get access to his video series.
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SPEAKER_02
So if I m you,
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SPEAKER_02
I would buy the book at salesdifferentiation.com, because I get the video series, versus buying it somewhere else at another bookseller.
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SPEAKER_02
I know a couple booksellers come to mind when you say those words, but go to salesdifferentiation.com.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I like Lee s content.
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SPEAKER_01
I think that we work so hard to get in front of people, whether it s marketing, or ads, or earned media, or just cold calls.
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SPEAKER_01
And then when we get into the process, we don t do much special.
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SPEAKER_01
There s not a whole lot of special.
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SPEAKER_01
And what he just described were a couple of sales processes on going to school.
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SPEAKER_01
I think there s a lot there about, OK, what can we do that just keeps us in the front of their mind?
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SPEAKER_01
Travis and I were talking about something earlier today that can do it for our business.
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SPEAKER_01
We just don t think about that enough.
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SPEAKER_01
So I think his book would be awesome.
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SPEAKER_02
It s great.
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SPEAKER_01
All right.
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SPEAKER_01
If you do have an event coming up in the next few months, we d love to talk with you about it.
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SPEAKER_01
Send us an email to listener at advancesellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_01
and we will jump on the horn with you and get things started.
2
SPEAKER_01
Brian goes, I go, or we both go.
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SPEAKER_01
We both go.
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SPEAKER_01
We prefer that.
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SPEAKER_01
Or neither one of us goes.
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SPEAKER_01
You pay us and neither one of us goes.
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SPEAKER_01
You could do that.
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SPEAKER_02
It ll stay on.
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SPEAKER_02
All right, see you next time.
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SPEAKER_02
Bye.