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Welcome to the art of charm.
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I m your host Jordan Harbinger.
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I m here with producer Jason DeFillippo here at the art of charm We may not have all the answers But certainly have some of the questions and today on fan mail Friday those questions come from you if you re new to the art of charm podcast fan mail Friday is a great place to start slash not a great place to start because a lot of our content is more in-depth It s longer format involves interviews with people you ve heard of so feel free to check out the best of at the art of charm comm slash best or the fundamentals toolbox at the art of charm comm slash toolbox
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If you have an iPhone, you can get our iPhone app, and those separate categories, Best Of, Toolbox, they re all separated in the app for easy access.
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And in those tabs, we ve got the fundamentals of reading body language and charismatic nonverbal communication, the science of attraction, negotiation techniques, networking and influence strategies, persuasion tactics, and everything else that we teach here at The Art of Charm.
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We ll send all that to your inbox if you text CHARMED, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444 here in the States, or just go to theartofcharm.com.
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Alright, let s cut to it.
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Hi Jordan, love your podcast and I m starting to delve a bit into your mini-sodes and maybe this would be an excellent subject matter for one of them.
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I am a 50-year-old woman and work in a large corporation.
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I grew up in a blue-collar neighborhood with two older brothers and no sisters, so certain types of stereotypically female behavior can be a challenge for me, given my social conditioning, which was basically growing up with two ball-busting dudes and no girls to bond with.
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I have a bad habit of teasing people and saying things that I think should be obviously taken as tongue-in-cheek, but many times are probably taken quite literally.
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I m a Kathy Griffin and Amy Schumer fan, so think in that direction.
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And sometimes the things I say come off rude or arrogant by people I m just getting to know and don t know my intentions and probably don t care, understandably.
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The truth is, I m very nerdy and emotionally sensitive at the core, and this behavior is a bad habit and defense mechanism from the 13-year-old me who just needed to survive a house full of my brothers and their 10 or more omnipresent, obnoxious friends.
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Needless to say, even though I know I m physically attractive and most of the time socially skilled, my behavior can cause me problems and probably not just with first impressions.
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I ve been working hard to check myself and remind myself how much people need to feel emotionally safe and feel I am interested in them and not just getting attention or putting up defenses.
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But for now, I know I recently blew a first impression by using this smartass behavior and would love some advice on how to recover.
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This is a coworker who s a great deal younger than me, male, no romantic interest on either side, but a really, truly decent young guy on whom I made a bad impression and would love to know your thoughts.
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Thanks so much for all that you do on AOC.
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Your interviews are absolutely stellar.
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Regards, Kelly.
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Hey Kelly, I totally understand this and I think you should pat yourself on the back because you spotted the defense mechanism thing.
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That s awareness that s tough to get, usually hard one, frankly.
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And it s hard for us to realize that people don t know or take our backgrounds into account when we interact with them.
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They can only take what we say at face value.
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So when you say something sarcastic or off-putting, it goes through their emotional filters, something we ve discussed on the show in the past.
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and it doesn t go through their understanding of your past or where you re coming from, at least that s how it works in general.
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And I think keeping this in mind when you interact might neuter your personality a bit in the beginning, and we don t want that.
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What we do want is for you to temper what you say a little bit in the beginning until other people can get a chance to see how you interact with them and with others, especially at work, so they don t feel singled out or mistreated in some way.
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And you can, in the meantime, take this particular guy aside and let him know what you just told us here.
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Also, make sure you re a bit more gentle with him here and there, and you can go back to your regular sarcastic self later on down the line if you want to.
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The key here is balance.
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I ve met plenty of people who make fun of others in a similarly playful way, and it works when it s tempered with real vulnerability and real rapport.
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If people only get the shield and the armor, aka sarcasm, then they can only see the armor and feel the barbs.
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If they get a chance to see the real you, and you playfully banter with them, and then they do the same thing with you later, but you can also be serious, vulnerable, and authentic at other times, it rounds you out.
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It makes you a real person in their eyes, and the things you say cease to take on that jarring personal meaning and emotional response that you re seeing right now.
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So this isn t an immediate fix, but the upside is that you can start immediately.
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Thanks for being part of the AOC family, Kel.
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This is a note from Hasan.
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Talent is more a matter of perception.
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If I see you dunking a basketball, I think that s talent.
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Only because I haven t seen the hours of practice that has gone into building that skill.
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In other words, it s just a function of length of observation.
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Yeah, I like this, and what Hasan is referring to is our Talent vs. Skills Minisode Monday a couple weeks back.
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I think this is a really good, astute observation.
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If you zoom out far enough on pretty much any talent, you can start to find the skill.
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If something is actually inborn, it s a talent no matter how far we zoom out, and true talent is very rare indeed.
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One way to zoom out is to get into a conversation with them directly and ask when they started getting good at this, when they started practicing these skills, and often you ll find that some people say, well, you know, I started doing this as a kid with my parents, or, oh, I just started learning this in college, or I started learning this as an adult.
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You might find yourself quite surprised.
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A lot of people ask me, oh, man, you know, are you bilingual in Chinese?
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Where d you learn Chinese?
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Did you live in China?
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No, I started learning a few years ago as an adult.
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and they start to say, oh, okay, maybe your talent is in the acquisition of this particular skill and not in this particular skill itself, or maybe I m no talent-ass clown like Michael Bolton, according to the guy in, what is it, Office Space?
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Office Space.
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And I just work really hard.
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I m totally open to that interpretation as well.
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Next up.
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Hi, Jordan.
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One phrase comes to mind when people ask me about listening to AOC.
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Remarkable.
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I think that s a word, not a phrase, but we ll take it.
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That s fine.
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Thank you for providing us with thought-provoking guests and challenging them to get their message across.
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I would love your opinion as a hiring manager and a person with an extensive experience in living your whole life on how to be the most interesting man.
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I want to be so interesting that any hiring manager is reaching out to me for an interview.
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I want to be so interesting that when someone mentions my name, they have a sparkle in their eye.
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What qualities are you looking for when scanning applicants that would make you say, man, I have to meet this guy?
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And what qualities are you looking for in a friend that would make you say, man, who is this guy?
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Thank you, Big Apple.
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I m surprised, Jason, you didn t use your bell sound effect that you have on your desk.
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Yeah, there you go.
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That s like when someone smiles in a toothpaste commercial.
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Ding.
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I have to remember that next time.
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That s right, you gotta be honest.
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It s new, so I m just getting the hang of the bell.
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That s right, I appreciate you not overusing the bell.
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We re not sound effects guys, as you all probably have noticed by now, although I do have a soundboard.
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Oh no, here he goes.
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Don t make me break it out.
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It crashes every time I load it up, so it doesn t get a whole lot of play here, unfortunately.
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I ve never, now you know why I don t use this.
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Anyway, Big Apple, yes, I think that for me, what s interesting, and again, this is just my opinion, but I feel like there s gonna be a lot of AOC family that share this.
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I m much more interested in long-term accomplishments versus gimmicks.
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I prefer depth over breadth.
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In other words, I would much prefer to talk to somebody who s worked at something for 25 years in the hospitality industry and founded a hotel chain and now works at Airbnb like this guy that we re looking at for the show, instead of somebody that s like, I ve founded 16 app companies by age 31.
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I don t buy the gimmicky stuff.
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It tends to be something that inflates the bio.
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It s very common here in Silicon Valley.
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And also these gimmicks like this person
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did this one challenging thing or has this one talk that they keep talking about in every area of their website.
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And unless it s a TED Talk and it s something that s really your sort of debut here, longer-term accomplishments, which by the way, getting on the TED stage will always reflect, versus gimmicks, depth over breadth.
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somebody that s well-rounded, a renaissance man or woman, the backstory that contrasts them with their peers, and maybe somebody who did all this while growing up, raising their brothers and sisters in India, that person s going to be much more interesting than someone with a pedigree who went to Harvard because his grandfather s on the board of regents or whatever.
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This is interesting because these people had to develop mindsets and strategies to succeed in spite of their background and in spite of their circumstances and not because of it.
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These are just a few factors that make people interesting, in my opinion.
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And I think what you should seek to do is create something that s really noteworthy.
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That s going to take you a long time to do, but that s going to be something that sets you apart from everybody else and makes you so interesting that people will have to hire you and have to meet you.
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And I know that s not the greatest answer, because I think what we re looking for here is maybe something that you can do tomorrow, or this week, or this year that s going to make you super interesting.
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But accomplishments are, I think, what most of us find truly interesting in the long term.
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And not just interesting, but useful and valuable for our company, our organization, or our circle of friends.
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So keep that in mind when you re looking at ways to develop yourself in order to get a competitive advantage over other people in the same strata as you.
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Does that make sense, Jason?
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I m so smurf Lee.
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Yes.
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Oh, wow.
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You re in that kind of mood, huh?
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And you can always just have a dos Equis and be the most interesting man.
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There you go.
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There you go Sponsored by dos Equis could use one of those right now All right, let s move on.
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Hey Jordan.
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Thanks for the awesome podcast.
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I ve learned a lot.
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Keep it up.
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I signed up for your boot camp this year
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and I m thrilled about it.
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I have a close friend of five years that s been acting distant for the last four and a half months.
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We used to hang out regularly, like once a week.
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Sometimes more, sometimes less.
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I ve spent many holidays with her family.
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I m not sure why she s so distant.
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My guess is I offended her somehow.
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She s a real estate agent, and at the time, her sales were stagnant.
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One day she mentioned that she liked staging homes for photos.
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She thought about starting a side business where she could do that for other people and other realtors.
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Around that time, I needed a room staged for a side project of mine.
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I asked her if she would like to do it, and I could pay her.
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It would take very little time.
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She agreed, but declined the money.
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Also, she agreed to do it in the next couple days.
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A week later, I asked her about it, and she s too busy.
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Two more weeks pass, I ask her again, same reason.
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So, I tell her I ll do it myself.
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Also, I tell her that being busy is an excuse.
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I was annoyed with her, but I didn t think this would cause a major rift between us.
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We ve had bigger disagreements in the past.
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Also, one time, many years ago, when I was upset with her, I said something rude to her.
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Later, I apologized, and she told me she could never be upset with me.
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So, I thought our friendship was resilient.
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Since mid-September we haven t hung out.
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She won t answer my phone calls.
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Sometimes she ll respond to my text, but it s very distant.
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I asked her what s wrong and apologized for upsetting her, but I received no response.
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So what do I do?
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I thought if I gave her time she d turn around, but it s been over four months and we re now past her birthday.
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I wished her happy birthday and left a present at her apartment door.
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Every year I ve gotten her a present for her birthday and she s done the same for me.
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I figured she might extend an olive branch as a birthday invite, but it didn t happen.
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I no longer believe waiting it out will ever work.
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She can be very stubborn.
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Also, I don t really know what happened.
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Is it really something I said, or has she just changed?
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Lastly, if she ever does come around again, I don t know if I could trust her again since she has been so cold.
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Our friendship has always been platonic.
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She s had the same boyfriend for over a year now.
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He and I get along, so I don t think it was that.
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Am I missing something?
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What else can I do?
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Did she just change?
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Should I never reach out again?
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Or should I say hello every once in a while?
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I appreciate any advice you can offer.
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From Confused and Annoyed.
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Hey Confused and Annoyed, the first thing that comes to mind here is the idea that you should never confuse other people s issues with your own issues.
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This is an unreasonable emotional response to what happened, and again I m only going based on your letter so I don t have the full background, I don t really know what that interaction was like, what her tone was, what your tone was, I have no idea of course.
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but it sounds like a very overblown reaction, which is a little bit suspicious.
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That said, it s of course impossible for me to know the background and details other than what you ve mentioned here, so take that with a grain of salt.
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But if this were me, and a five-year-plus friendship were on the line, I might consider reaching out to her boyfriend, since all else has so far failed, and simply putting it out there.
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You ve got nothing to lose at this point.
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You already have a friendship that s essentially in the blender, and he might be able to convince her to tell you what s really happening.
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This is really strange indeed.
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There could be more to the story, so keep us posted.
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I m actually interested to see how this shakes out, but I would reach out to the boyfriend and say, look, here s what happened in my estimation.
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If you can talk to him in person, great.
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If you can talk to him on the phone, better.
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Email s a last resort because he might just forward it to her and say, what do you think I should do?
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And then you could end up in the exact same spot as you are now.
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Jason, has anything like this ever happened
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happened to you?
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It has.
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And the interesting thing about it was it was, you know, another female friend of mine that kind of just went AWOL for a long time.
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And it wasn t till about a year and a half later where she finally came back around and I found out what happened.
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And she had gotten pregnant, actually, and then had an abortion and was just not mentally like in a good state to see anybody for a long time.
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So it finally took her.
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It took her a while to be able to, you know, reach back out to her friends and start up again.
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So, I mean, she could have just other issues going on right now.
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So.
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Definitely ask the boyfriend if you want to stick it in, and like Jordan said, no paper trail.
1
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Next up.
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Hey, Jordan, Jason, and all of those at AOC.
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Firstly, thank you for your podcast.
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I m absolutely a fan and find your content can be useful, inspirational and applicable to many real life situations.
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Originally from Canada, I moved to the Gold Coast in Australia seven years ago for work.
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Here I met my husband, who s Australian.
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And in the four years we ve been married, we ve been fortunate enough to travel for work and have lived in the Gold Coast, Vancouver, San Francisco and Los Angeles.
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I ve been living back in Australia for two years now, and I m finding my natural accent has become a hybrid of many tones, emphases, and weirdly placed syllables.
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When I listen to recordings of myself, I sound downright ridiculous, so much so that I feel my accent distracts those I m communicating with from what I m trying to convey.
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No matter where I go, I inevitably get asked where I m from, and I tend to seize up and give a half-explanation about moving from place to place.
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Do you have any suggestions on speech to either preserve your original accent or speak in a way that doesn t sound distracting and like I m trying to put on a fake accent?
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Thanks for your help guys, Yana.
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Hey Yana, remember that time four minutes ago where I said never conflate other people s issues with your own?
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Yeah, well this is your issue.
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Look, almost universally, people think accents are cool, unique, exotic, sexy, whatever.
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If you have one that no one else has ever heard before because you re a child of the world, feel free to steal that by the way, then by all means, lean into it.
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120,000 AOC family members are listening to this right now and thinking, damn, I wish I had an accent.
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Any accent.
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I m from Ohio, Canberra, Gloucester, whatever.
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Come on, Yana.
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Honestly though, you re self-conscious about the accent, but you re the only one thinking about it in a negative way.
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I m certain of that.
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I personally suspect that this comes from a feeling of not knowing that you belong, or if you belong.
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and this is perhaps one of the reasons for all your travels as well.
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I may be reading into this too much here, but I traveled a lot when I was younger, in part because of curiosity, and in part because I felt like maybe I d find a new home where I felt like I belonged more than I had before.
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But guess what?
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That was a really fun experiment, but it didn t really work in the way that I d intended it.
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Your accent is part of who you are, even if it s just a kindergarten finger-paints version of a bunch of different accents all mashed up together.
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It s a part of you just like any other of your life experiences.
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It s just that yours show up every time you speak, and frankly, I think that s amazing and something you should be proud of.
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So, Jana, say it loud and say it weird and let that freak flag fly, and soon you ll begin to change the way that you think about the way that you speak, and enjoy, of course, the curiosity that is sparked by it.
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Alright, last but not least.
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Jordan, I love, love, love your podcast.
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Not only has it kept me entertained and awake on my long commute to work each day, but listening to The Art of Charm has inspired me in so many ways.
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Thank you and keep doing what you do.
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Okay.
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I admit when I first began listening, I thought that this was a podcast meant only for the male audience, but I didn t care.
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SPEAKER_00
I ate up every bit of it and couldn t get enough.
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SPEAKER_00
I would look forward to my drive to work because I felt that I had finally found that something I was looking for.
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SPEAKER_00
Your podcast is amazing, really, and you should be very proud.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have a relationship question.
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SPEAKER_00
I m 29 years old and a widow.
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My husband passed away almost six years ago now in a car accident.
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We were so in love that I never believed I would ever meet someone else again.
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Then around three years later, I met someone, had a baby, and experienced a very difficult breakup.
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SPEAKER_00
It was an abusive and trying past six years,
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ready to begin dating again, I think.
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I am extremely independent and my ego gets in the way more than I like to admit.
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Since my last relationship ended in such a poor way, I have a terrible stereotype that I label on men.
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It is truly rare that I can say anything good about any man.
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I see all the bad and I think I have completely forgotten what a good man can bring other than physical comfort and yes, I mean sex.
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In my last relationship, I was mentally and physically abused.
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The physical abuse happened only once, at which point I decided to end things, but it was the mental abuse that stuck with me.
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He tore apart my confidence every last shred.
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I don t know if that s why my ego has grown, or if it s a coping mechanism, but either way it bothers me.
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I find myself going on dates with guys I m not even interested in.
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When I don t like what I see or hear on a first date, I immediately assume that I am bound to be single for the rest of my life.
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I have a good job and love what I do, but now I want to share it with someone.
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I just can t stand men.
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I don t want to be single for the rest of my life.
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I just have to get over this idea that there are no good men left in the world.
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How do I stop prejudging every guy I go on a date with and start seeing the good in men again?
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I wish I could find someone like the people on your show.
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Any advice is appreciated.
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Thanks, Janie.
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First things first, this is a therapy situation.
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There s stuff here with your ex-husband s death that s not being dealt with, I would imagine, that might have contributed to your feelings of self-worth when getting involved with the abusive a-hole that mistreated you, and this, in turn, and you nailed it, has led to an increase in the ego whose function is to protect us from emotional harm.
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The ego, though, is screening out the guys who would be healthy for you and screening in the guys that reinforce your current beliefs about men.
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This is something that you have to get handled because doing it on your own will be very tough.
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It will take a very, very long time if it ever gets handled.
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Think about this.
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Time is of the essence here.
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Every day not addressing these issues in a real and deep way is another day you potentially put off, scare off, or filter out someone who would be a good partner for you and a good step-parent for your child.
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And the elephant in the room here is this.
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Your child s examples are, right now, your abusive ex-partner and yourself with your current attitude towards men.
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If you can t do it for yourself, you gotta do it for your child, unless you want those same patterns of abuse and victim imprinted on him or her.
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Imagine them being an abuser, or imagine them being abused by someone else.
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If that s not what you want for your kid, and what mother would, then find someone competent and start to get this handled as soon as you possibly can.
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In the meantime, I just really want to give you a big hug because you re super brave for putting this out there, and you ve been through a lot, obviously.
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So go easy on yourself, but just not in the area of getting this set of issues handled so that you can move on and move up.
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And in that area, you need to be relentless and compassionate with yourself and never give up.
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We re rooting for you, Janie.
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Hope you all enjoyed that.
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Don t forget, you can email us, Friday at TheArtOfCharm.com to get your questions answered on the air.
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A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at TheArtOfCharm.com slash FMF 104.
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I d love to hear from you.
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I m on Twitter at TheArtOfCharm.
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It s a great way to engage with the show.
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Jason, you re on Twitter, yeah?
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I m on Twitter at JPDef, D-E-F.
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Also, don t forget about the Art of Charm Challenge.
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Text CHARMED, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444.
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In the states, everywhere else, just go to theartofcharm.com slash challenge.
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We re taking it step by step at becoming better at making personal and professional connections, increasing our social capital, increasing our charisma, becoming a better networker, and it s for both guys and gals, so check that out.
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Text the word CHARMED.
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C-H-A-R-M-E-D to 33444 here in the States.
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Everywhere else, just go to theartofcharm.com.
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Oh, by the way, I host another show that s quite a bit different.
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It s on the Forbes Network on Podcast One called The Forbes List.
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I interview Forbes editors and other talented folks about the list that Forbes keeps from everything from billionaires to the fastest-growing companies in tech.
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You can find The Forbes List anywhere you listen to podcasts.
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Quick shout-out to Conrad, who uses a lot of the skills he learns on AOC at high-level negotiations.
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He was helping negotiate some environmental accords, including the Paris Agreements, which is awesome, and credits AOC with some help there.
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SPEAKER_00
So wait, so you re telling me that AOC is partially responsible for the Paris Agreement?
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Because I think we could put that feather in our cap and wear it pretty proudly.
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What do you say, Jason?
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Absolutely.
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And Zanna in Finland, Zanna with an X, that s kind of cool, in Finland, really getting a lot of use out of the Minnesota Monday, she says.
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Are you in a strange land listening to my familiar voice?
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If so, hit me up and I ll shout you out.
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More from AOC at theartofcharm.com, including info on our live residential boot camps, those we run every single week here in LA.
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If you really want to dig into this stuff and work on your AOC skills with us as your coaches, that s bootcamp.theartofcharm.com.
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Now stay charming, get out there and connect, and leave everyone better than you found them.