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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill shares his disdain for Greenwich Mean Time.
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We have a small mid-episode verbal tiff that gets all sorted out, so no worries.
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And we take a listener-inspired deal and ponder the question, should you be choosy about who you work with?
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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I am, what are we?
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We are the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history, Bill Kasky.
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Brian Neal.
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Welcome back.
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If you are a newbie, a newcomer to the podcast, you can go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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Somewhere on that page, there is a link to the top episodes of all time.
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I was getting ready to say top selling episodes of all time.
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We don t sell any of them.
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But they re not for sale.
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We would be a much better business model if we sold these episodes, wouldn t it?
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Oh my goodness.
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I wonder if our listeners would pay, what, $0.50 an episode?
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I bet they would.
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$0.50 an episode, that s $2-ish a month, right?
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That d be $24 a year.
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I bet they would do that.
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We re not going to ask them to at this point.
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Times a million, that s a $24 million business.
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It still is funny.
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We have great listeners.
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Every once in a while, someone will complain about something we do on the podcast about us ranting this first opening bit, which most people think is interesting.
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Some don t.
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But those that don t, all you got to do is hit the plus 30 second button.
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That s right.
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Twice.
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It s probably twice.
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So before we get going today, we have something that we are offering to our listeners.
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And we sent out an email.
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So if you re not on our email list, make sure you go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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Scroll to the bottom.
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You can jump on that list.
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But we re going to be doing five goal setting and planning sessions between now and December 18 this year.
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And this is for a company.
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So if you re a VP of sales, sales manager, owner,
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and you have not done your goal setting and planning for your team, we will come in and do it for you.
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It s two hours.
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You can find out more at advancedsellingpodcast.com slash virtual.
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We will also put the link in the show notes too, right Travis?
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We ll put it in there too.
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And I would tell you, if you re thinking about doing anything towards the end of this year to get your team ready for 2021, our clients, when they leave these business planning sessions, we can do training and coaching all day, and it s great and wonderful, and we do all day.
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But when you leave with a plan done, and every individual member of your sales team has a plan done, it will be a great Christmas, or whatever you celebrate.
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It ll just be a really, really nice thing to do.
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So and the sales teams we talked to also really appreciate it.
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And if you re a salesperson, forward this episode along to your sales leader.
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Have them go to the advancedsellingpodcast.com slash virtual and say, hey, boss, I think we should do this deal with Brian and Bill.
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Be really good.
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I have an annoyance.
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Oh, you do?
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Now, let s see if you, I know that you find that extremely hard to believe.
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I love these.
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Because I m annoyed by more and more things.
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We should do our own, like, this should be its own podcast.
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Its own podcast.
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Things of annoyability.
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Go ahead.
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I d love to hear this.
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OK.
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You know the calendaring apps?
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I do.
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Calendly.
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Calendly is what we use.
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And there s all different ones.
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There s lots of them.
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Well, I have this person that I m working with in the Mountain Time Zone.
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All right.
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Yes.
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And when he sends me the calendar to book a one-hour meeting, I don t know what app it is.
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I know it s not Calendly.
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You would assume that the time that you are looking at is your time zone, correct?
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I would assume that, in 2020.
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I know I would assume that I know so I booked it today and I said one to two next Wednesday Yeah, but it didn t have anything about Eastern times.
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He s mountain didn t have anything about one to two Eastern He just said one to two.
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So I m left with okay.
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Is that 11?
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Is that one?
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Is it three?
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I mean, you know the whole thing
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But what it did have was it had the reference of Greenwich Mean Time.
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So it was 5 o clock GMT.
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And now I m thinking, OK, now, is that the date line?
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Which side of the date line is that?
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So then I think, well, I got to go back.
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I got to go to the web.
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I got to look up Greenwich Mean Time at 5 o clock Greenwich Mean Time.
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And I don t know if that s, I assume that s 5 o clock.
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So I went ahead and just assumed it was Eastern.
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Then I got the confirmation it was Eastern.
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But there was no EST or anything on the actual appointment.
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So it d be kind of like if I said, look, do you want to buy this from me?
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And you said, yeah, how much?
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I said, 300 yen.
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300?
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300 rubies?
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Rubles?
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It was rubies.
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I didn t realize that Greenwich Mean Time thing is still a thing.
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What is it?
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I know we ve got lots of listeners in the UK.
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What is it?
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I think it s the basic time that all other times are built on.
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Greenwich Mean Time.
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Well, right now it s 7.01 PM, isn t it?
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Yeah.
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So what does that tell you?
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Yeah, well, it s also- It s kind of like figuring out what time it is in Australia when you re here, because it s always- Okay, here it is.
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It is named from its original generation of the Royal Greenwich Observatory.
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It s aligned and coordinated a universal time called Greenwich Mean Time or British Summertime for the appropriate time of year.
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Is it in Britain, then?
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Well, I just want to know how it foots to the atomic clock, because that s really the only clock that matters, right?
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It must, yeah.
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Exactly.
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Greenwich Mean Time.
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God bless everyone.
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Oh, here it is.
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Here s a nice little time zone thing.
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We have something like that in the piloting world, too, called Zulu, I believe it s called.
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It s been a while since I ve been.
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Zulu?
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I think it s called Zulu Time.
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It basically means that everyone flying a plane is using the exact same time, no matter where you are in the world.
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Yeah, that would be confusing.
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Exactly.
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It s very, very important.
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Greenwich Mean Time.
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Now, it could have been that this person didn t set up.
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Well, anyway, I don t want to get into it.
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But anyway, Greenwich Mean Time, it s like when you say, well, in meters, how far is it?
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I have a new client who s from South Africa.
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And he kind of goes back and forth there.
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Because they do a little bit of both, I think.
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A little bit of metric and a little bit of royal.
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Yeah, Zulu time is also Greenwich Mean Time.
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Oh, it s the same.
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There you go.
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Same thing.
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They just came up with a different name for it.
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Yeah, of course, because why would we want to call it the same time for safety, the same thing?
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That s a mouthful of Greenwich Mean Time.
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Oh, that s good stuff.
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OK.
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Greenwich Mean Time topic.
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So this was inspired by a listener, and she, by a listener.
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Well, she s a listener, but she s also a former client.
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And I love when our clients, or former clients, or even listeners will call us or leave a message or an email or something and say, I need some coaching on a deal, and it s podcast worthy.
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So she really felt this was podcast worthy.
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So I ll tell you a little bit about the story.
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I m going to take it a little bit different direction than she did.
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But the question at hand that Bill and I want to talk about today is, how picky should you be about your clients?
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What sort of voice do you have as the salesperson to say, I want to work with that person, and I don t want to work with them?
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We want to riff on that topic.
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And the scenario was, and she s a wonderful salesperson,
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and has done a great job of taking the things that we teach here on the podcast, making them her own, having great results with them over a long period of time.
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It s really great to watch.
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And she had a client where she was talking to the owner of a business.
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She sells advertising type services.
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Is this a prospect or a client, existing client?
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More of a prospect.
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So a past client, but I d put it more new biz arena.
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was she s very good at persistence.
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So she calls this guy all the time.
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This guy owns this place.
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And guy s like, I think I want to talk.
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Boom.
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But he had this consultant, this marketing consultant involved.
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So I just wanted to get clear with this guy.
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Well, this guy was a bully.
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And I read the email exchange.
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You talk about someone that you wouldn t want to represent your own brand.
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This owner, I told her this.
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I m like, if I hired someone to be my marketing consultant and this guy treated you that way, I d kick him out as fast as I could think.
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But she said, he asked her to discount something like three different times down.
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And she did once, but then she s really good at holding value.
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She s like, look, we re not going to move.
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And he sent her kind of a nasty email.
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It said something like, if you don t do this, you re dead to me.
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And she said no, and then never heard from him again.
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I m like, well, does that mean he s dead, or she s dead, or what s going on?
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Yeah, that s what he meant.
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But she s like, this is BS.
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It s no good.
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And so she was asking, she s like, did I do the wrong thing?
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by not going down again, like discounting.
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And I want to go visit the owner.
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She wants to go stop and see him.
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And I thought, that s great.
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That s a good idea.
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Her question is, like we said, does she want this person as a client?
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Does she have to work with him once they do a deal?
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I don t know.
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First time he s been involved.
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But in her business, they don t just sell and walk away.
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Is there an ongoing relationship?
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Yeah, they ve got to do creative stuff to get the advertising and the marketing stuff up in front of people and choose photos and all sorts of things.
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So it s likely that she would have an ongoing relationship with him.
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Absolutely, yeah.
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Which figures into it from my standpoint.
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It s like, OK, life is short.
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In an abundant market, you choose people that you want to do business with, unless it s just a transaction, which this is not.
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But I think that s part of it is, I would say, how do you establish some filters?
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Because they re establishing filters.
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His filter might be, if she doesn t discount, she s dead to me.
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OK, that s your filter.
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What s my filter?
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If people bully me, I don t work with them.
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Yes, and I know it s hard for a VP of sales to hear that because it s like wait a minute We need every piece of business.
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We need all business.
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Yeah, but in the time that she s dealing and navigating around his bulliness
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after she gets the deal, if she gets the deal, is time she can t spend with prospecting.
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And I think everyone listening will remember, and sometimes we forget, this is the problem I think we have sometimes in selling, is we have this transaction where we hold our ground.
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And we hold our integrity to what we do and our pricing and all that other stuff.
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And we say no.
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And then life goes on.
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And most people aren t like that.
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Then we get the next deal.
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And maybe we re in a different mental space or whatever.
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And we re unsure of ourselves.
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Like, is it OK for me to do this?
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You know, that sort of thing.
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Because I trust her immensely, and I think it was a great move for her to go talk to the owner.
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And I absolutely, so if you re listening to this, I think, and Bill, I think you would agree that we absolutely believe in the idea that you have a say in who you work with, regardless of why.
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In other words, there could be some stylistic reasons.
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Or it could be, well, it s a hugely profitable business, but the way that they treat people is not how we like to treat others.
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So we re out, no matter how big the fee is.
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And I think sometimes we tend to look past these other things, just as you said, the end of the deal.
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I was just listening to Seth Godin, who was on a podcast.
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He s got a new book out.
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I think it s called The Practice.
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It s not actually out yet.
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But he talked about the culture.
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And he said, every company has a culture to protect, to build and protect.
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And when you start making decisions, like cutting corners, discounting, and you start making decisions for one client or one prospect or one employee, then the culture starts to deteriorate.
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And I think just from a culture standpoint, and I don t know much about this one, but you have to ask yourself, is me taking this deal at a discounted rate or me having a client that bullies me and probably will bully other people inside the company, is that going to build our culture?
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I wrote down here vendor.
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Whenever I hear this, you ve got to shave your price 5%.
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And if you don t, you re dead to me.
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That s a vendor relationship.
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It s also, I love what you said, how many people have gone the route.
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So what she could have done, because the guy gave her a deal.
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He basically said, if you, he didn t basically, he did say, if you take this, what I m offering you, it s a contract.
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It s done.
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That was his closing move as the buyer.
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She said no.
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There are a lot of salespeople that would have taken that deal, which would have been a discounted twice instead of once.
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So if I went down 10%, he asked for another 10, would have gone down 20.
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A lot of people would have taken that deal.
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See what I mean?
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And here s what we all know.
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The ones that would have taken that deal, like you said, that guy would have been a massive pain in the butt to deal with.
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Could have been, yeah.
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The margins are already compressed on it.
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And you re wasting lots of time dealing with something that you discounted two or three times down.
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The phrase that a lot of people don t like to hear is, how you do anything is how you do everything.
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How you do anything is how you do everything.
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The buyer is the same way.
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So when they re trying to press and prod and boom, it feels, like you said, transactional, vendor-ish.
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It s going to be that way forever if you let it be.
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Yeah, so go ahead.
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I m just breathing.
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Usually that s the noise you make when I m babbling.
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I know.
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So here s a question though.
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This is a question for you.
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Did I just say that?
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Yes, I repeated myself.
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What if she would have come back, let s say he would have said, she gave 10, are you saying?
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Or are you just using that as an example?
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Let s say she gave 10.
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He came back and said, I m not going to do 10.
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You re an idiot.
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If you do 20, if you don t, you re dead.
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She could have come back.
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Could she have come back?
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Or would you coach her to come back, say, look,
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I want to work with you.
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I feel like we ve identified the problems.
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I think I can help you.
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I can t do another 10.
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But in lieu of that, here s another thing that I can do that might even be better for you than the 10.
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Wouldn t you coach her to find the thing that maybe doesn t cost you a lot to give, but is worth something to the client?
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In other words, now we re in negotiation.
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She didn t really negotiate.
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She just said no.
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She did once.
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She did once.
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Yes.
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And then she said no.
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Wouldn t you have coached her if she was a client at this point to say, look, I think next time we ought to say no, but here s what I can do.
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Or here s another way to look at it.
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Yeah.
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I feel like I m being, I m a politician being asked a question by a reporter.
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Wouldn t you agree that the fact.
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You said that to me earlier.
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I think you would agree Bill.
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Yeah.
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Oh, I did.
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I did.
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I didn t want to speak for you is what I was trying to do.
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Excuse me and Bill while we have a moment here.
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I was trying to not speak for you.
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It just came out wrong.
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Don t ever say that word.
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Are you serious?
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Wouldn t you agree with what I said?
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I think, Bill, I don t know, but I want to speak for you.
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That s better than I know you would agree.
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I know you would agree this.
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Well, I m sure you would agree that.
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No, the politics are over.
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Thank God.
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Are they?
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No, not yet.
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Yeah.
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No, it s election eve.
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Oh my gosh, I can t wait.
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Get out the popcorn.
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Here we go.
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What takes longer, to vote or to ride Space Mountain back in the 80s?
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I think it was riding Space Mountain in the 80s takes longer than it does to vote now, which is like two days.
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We digress.
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I would have wanted her to explore a little bit more first before I went down that path.
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So what I want to say, you re back to me a second time.
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What s going on here?
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I m wondering, because I m even wondering, is this guy incented?
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for savings?
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Is he incented by it?
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Is that why the marketing consultant is there?
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So he can say, hey, here was a list price.
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It was $1,000.
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I got it down to $500.
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I split that with the owner.
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I don t know.
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I d want to know what s driving the need for negotiation.
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And now I m going to discover, is it a value thing?
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Well, we don t think if we spent $1,000 with you, we don t think it s going to bump the volume up enough.
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It s a marketing play.
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I go, OK, well, we can deal with that.
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Let s talk about that.
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SPEAKER_01
Or is it something else?
1
SPEAKER_01
Or is the guy just that way?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that s good.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think to explore the
1
SPEAKER_00
the demand a little bit.
1
SPEAKER_00
I had an attorney friend who told me once, he said, look, whenever you get into the final elements of negotiation, there s always a way.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s always a way around things.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s always a way through things.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s always something you can add or delete or modify.
1
SPEAKER_00
Or you know what?
1
SPEAKER_00
I know this is for a one-year deal.
1
SPEAKER_00
I would do 20% if you did a two-year deal, something like that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s good.
1
SPEAKER_01
I love that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
We talked about that too.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, the expansion to say, yeah, I d go back.
1
SPEAKER_01
I can always work, but we need to understand what s our grounds here.
1
SPEAKER_01
What are we doing?
1
SPEAKER_01
What are we trying to accomplish?
1
SPEAKER_01
Because that would have been a great deal for her to take on a two-year contract with that discounted rate.
1
SPEAKER_01
That actually would have been good math for her and a good commitment.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because in her business, it can be
1
SPEAKER_01
kind of annual, so if you do a two-year deal, that s really, really great.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the prospect now feels like they got a little something.
1
SPEAKER_00
They didn t get everything they wanted, but they got a little something.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that s part of the feeling of negotiation, is I stretched Brian as far as I could go with him, and I m comfortable now.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I always am so curious about that.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, we don t teach a lot of hardcore negotiation around here.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe we should try to have that guy.
1
SPEAKER_01
What s that guy s name?
1
SPEAKER_01
Matt Voss?
1
SPEAKER_01
What s the guy s name?
1
SPEAKER_00
Chris Voss.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the guy that wrote the book on that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Never split the difference?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we could have him.
1
SPEAKER_01
He d be a good guest, I think.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s been trying to get on this podcast for last year.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s real buzzy.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he keeps sending us those cold emails where it says, hello.
1
SPEAKER_01
Advancing Selling Podcast.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, hello, William and Brian with an I. I loved episode 239, where you guys talked about title of episode.
1
SPEAKER_00
In 12-point Helvetica, and then it moves to 9-point Verdana.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s blue.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I know that they re just like cut and paste in the reply.
1
SPEAKER_00
My gosh, that s a little yeah, if you have somebody if you truly are listening which those PR people never listen So I m speaking to the mirror here, but if you want to get somebody on and you represent somebody
1
SPEAKER_00
Be a little bit more creative than just sending us a cut and pasted with all different fonts in it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, just be real.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s nothing else.
1
SPEAKER_01
Just say, you know what, guys?
1
SPEAKER_01
I ve never listened to one episode of your podcast.
1
SPEAKER_01
Looking at the title on the outside, looking in, this guest might be of interest to you.
1
SPEAKER_01
Say that instead of saying, oh, I loved episode 228, where you guys talked about value proposition.
1
SPEAKER_00
Something that doesn t relate at all to the guest.
1
SPEAKER_00
OK, so the lesson there is it s OK to walk.
1
SPEAKER_00
It is.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s OK to choose.
1
SPEAKER_00
Be choosy.
1
SPEAKER_00
Be choosy.
1
SPEAKER_00
Have a filter that you pass people through, even just from an attribute standpoint, not just in dollars and cents, but just, is this the kind of person I want to work with?
1
SPEAKER_00
Especially if you re in a relationship where the work is ongoing.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then you can negotiate, but maybe there s other things you can throw in, add, tweak, delete.
1
SPEAKER_00
Be the process.
1
SPEAKER_01
What was it called?
1
SPEAKER_01
Jif peanut butter back in the 70s and 80s.
1
SPEAKER_01
Choosy mothers choose Jif.
1
SPEAKER_01
Be choosy.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s a throwback.
1
SPEAKER_00
Did you used to represent Jif?
1
SPEAKER_01
No, but there was a great band when I was in college called Jif and the Choosy Mothers, which I thought was a brilliant name for a band.
1
SPEAKER_01
Isn t it Jif and the Choosy Mothers?
1
SPEAKER_00
But didn t you in your early years?
1
SPEAKER_00
Wasn t Jif?
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah, P&G.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, P&G was Jif.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now can we say P&G or are they going to come after you?
1
SPEAKER_01
Cease and desist.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re going to call Tim G first.
1
SPEAKER_00
Brian Neal, please.
1
SPEAKER_01
Please stop saying our name.
1
SPEAKER_01
You left too soon.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think just good lessons there across the board for everybody listening.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s a deal you re working on right now where you probably don t want to work on it, or you don t want it as a client, or it just feels clunky.
2
SPEAKER_00
Totally fine.
2
SPEAKER_00
Encourage you all to walk away from that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Say, the numbers just don t work.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just not going to make sense.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can t do it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then be gone and go on to the next one.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a big, abundant world out there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hey, I know you ve heard us talk about the Insider Program.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you have not joined the Insider, we have probably 70, 75 people in the Insider.
2
SPEAKER_01
We have an event coming up this Friday at noon, and we re going to walk you through video strategies that are going to help you close more business in 2020 and 2021.
2
SPEAKER_01
Go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider.
2
SPEAKER_01
Love it.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s it.
2
SPEAKER_01
So just check that out.
2
SPEAKER_01
See if you want to be a part of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
We d love to have you if it seems like it fits you.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you, bye.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.