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All right, time for Fan Mail Fridays, where we ll be answering your questions and dropping some knowledge and feedback to help you kick the weekend off right.
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If you re new to the Art of Charm podcast, this is not the best place to start.
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Most of our content is more in-depth, longer format, so check out thebestof at theartofcharm.com slash best, or the Fundamentals Toolbox at theartofcharm.com slash toolbox.
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That s where we ve got the fundamentals of body language, nonverbal communication, attraction, negotiation, networking,
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Everything else we teach here at the art of charm.
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All right, let s cut to it swinging together says hey Jordan Me and my wife have been married for 14 years.
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We re in our early 30s.
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Wow, that s Super young marriage.
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She is very bisexual and we have opened up our marriage about a year ago We re very committed to each other and both are very comfortable with our decision to do this swinging thing
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Here s my, which is a whole word is just funny.
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Here s my question.
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Do you have any tips for dating as a couple?
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The dynamics are so different when two people are dating two other people.
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I know this is a broad question.
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Thanks for any advice in advance.
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Love fan mail Friday swinging together.
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So I had to reach out for reinforcements on this one.
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By the way, I ve got Kim here with me, which is great.
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Um, speaking of swinging, uh, but I had to reach outside well outside and call my buddy Birdo.
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And he said, all right, look, this is a broad question.
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Take what you d like.
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Is your swinging goal to specifically date another couple long term?
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He said, we definitely don t call it swinging where I come from.
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He lives in New York.
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And actually, we don t date any couples because we re not polyamorous as opposed to swinging.
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He said, we simply hang out with couples as friends.
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And if the chemistry is right, we play.
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That s a euphemism, obviously.
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Or we go to play parties, meet a hot, fun, cool couple, play together, and end up becoming friends.
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Again, this is from Birdos.
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I don t want people being like, yo, you and Jenny swing.
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Birdos goes on to suggest that they do two things first.
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Discuss with each other what they each desire and what potential boundaries they may have.
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This will change over time, and you will always need to reset expectations.
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When you re playing with a couple, you always have to ask for consent initially and then go with the flow, a la, can I kiss you, then you can feel the rest out.
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You have to ask again, apparently, before penetration.
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I m learning so much.
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If their goal is to date other couples and have a relationship with a couple, make sure the girls get along first.
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That s always key and most important.
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If the chemistry and friendship is there, then the rest should be a piece of cake.
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And of course, make sure to build the relationship as couples by getting to know each other one-on-one.
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That doesn t mean go on solo dates.
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It just means get to know each other while the guys are in the bathroom or she s getting a drink, et cetera, because if all four people get along with each other interchangeably, then the relationship as a couple will last and continue to reset expectations.
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That s professional swinging advice from somebody who doesn t call it swinging.
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But I know Birdo s been doing this for a long time.
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I mean like more almost a decade probably or darn close.
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Not my thing.
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Remember Kim when we went to that coffee shop and that couple was like all hitting on us because they were like, hey, what happened?
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How did that even start?
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It just got weird so quick.
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Yeah, and you and I, like, caught on at the same time.
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I just remember, like, there was this one point where you and I looked at each other, we re like, okay, this isn t just somebody being friendly.
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Yeah, no, what happened was we, I went in there and I asked for, like, just the Wi-Fi password or something, or just water.
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And then you were like, oh, she was like, oh, you don t want to order anything?
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I was like, no, I m just gonna be a freeloader, sorry.
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And then you were like, no, actually, I want some, like a chai or whatever.
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And it was the guy or the girl.
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I think it was the girl.
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And then the guy came out of the back and I was kind of like talking with him, like just whatever, normal stuff.
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Then we sat down and she was also studying at the same time, the barista at this coffee shop, studying something.
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So we sat down and joined her at a table, only free table.
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And then the guy came up and started like giving her a massage while they were talking to us and it was super awkward.
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Yeah, and their whole like non-verbals and the way they were looking at us, it was like suddenly I got this kind of feeling of seduction.
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Yeah, it was like, and they also asked us like, where do you guys hang out around here or something?
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It was like this weird coded...
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Message kind of that wasn t just like oh, what are you guys doing after this waiting for sushi?
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It was like what bars do you go to or they asked us something that we didn t quite understand like do you guys?
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Do you guys go to XYZ party?
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And it was kind of like his thing like if you say yes, then it means you re in the lifestyle
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Yeah, and I think we quickly caught on at that point.
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We did not say where we hung.
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I remember that.
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We were like, I don t know, it depends.
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You know, separately with our clothes on.
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No, I mean, no judgments.
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It s probably a lot of fun, but it was just kind of funny because obviously we re not a couple.
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They were super into each other in front of us.
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And I was like, not getting aroused by any of this.
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Just want to use the Wi-Fi.
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and our barista.
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How s your latte?
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Yeah, this one s a little more serious.
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This is from Heather.
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She says, when I first met my bully, he seemed nice and he was super friendly to everyone.
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A few months later, I started to notice some red flags.
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He started to joke about stalking and raping me and would make creepy comments about hiding in my car and waiting to slit my throat.
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First of all, whoa.
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Okay, I ve been in a similar situation at another job, she says, and when I brought the issue up to HR, it made things worse, and that individual ended up stalking me and threatening me.
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I was 18 at the time, so I didn t know what to do other than quit and move to another part of town.
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I should ve sued the crap out of him.
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I didn t tell anyone about the current bully s sick jokes because I didn t have any evidence or witnesses, so it would have just been a case of he said, she said.
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Then we applied for the same promotion, and after I got the position, he went to the manager that chose me and said some nasty things about me to get her to change her mind.
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When that didn t work, he then proceeded to tell all of our co-workers things that made them stop talking to me and giving me weird looks.
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No one will tell me what he said, which doesn t really matter.
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It was being ostracized and how people started treating me afterwards that bothered me.
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Things have calmed down, and since he has done the same thing to another co-worker, but now people have realized what kind of person he is, so he has lost his persuasion power.
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Although things are better, I ve never quite been the same.
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I ve been struggling for a long time with trusting people enough to build authentic relationships, but I don t want to allow people like him to hold me back.
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I believe I ve been feeling bored with new people because my lingering trust issues make it difficult for me to be authentic and I get stuck being a weird superficial version of myself.
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With old friends, I think I feel bored because I ve changed so much.
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I don t feel I can relate to them as much as I used to.
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With dating, I wonder if I m bored because I m picking guys that I m not compatible with.
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But I also wonder if my perspective is what s holding me back from being authentic with everyone.
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Thank you for your reply, Heather.
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First of all, this is a major lawsuit against her employer.
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Yeah, I was just going to ask you about that.
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Major.
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like six-figure settlement, switch jobs, get the hell out, destruction of your career, awful thing.
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So I mean, I m a lawyer, but you need to talk to a lawyer that will listen to the details of your case and figure this out.
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I would absolutely explore that option, because the fact is, he went to your boss to get her to change her mind.
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Yeah, that didn t work, but here s the problem.
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He told all your coworkers, you re in a weird work environment.
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He should have been fired for saying those things to your boss.
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Granted, I don t know exactly what these things are, but if someone tries to get you fired or demoted, there s real, I mean, that is beyond the pale.
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This isn t, you re, Jordan s kind of a slut, like that s a crappy, immature thing to do, and quite frankly, still actionable, but if people are not talking to you, and your coworkers, this and HR, that, and your boss, this and that, this guy is like, he needs, and he wasn t dismissed for doing that,
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they are allowing it to happen by that, that by the virtue of the fact that he is still there.
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So I would strongly, I would, I would lawyer up.
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I would definitely lawyer up.
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For sure.
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I mean, that s the first thing.
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And then me, of course, being a therapist, you know, my first impression of this whole thing is, or a question I would ask her is if she s had other history of these kinds of situations or abuse.
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You know, yeah, well, as she said in her other job, the guy stalked her and stuff like that, even after she went to H.R., which to me, it s like, what is going on here when someone says, oh, this guy threatened to stalk and rape me in H.R.
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is like, oh, don t worry about it.
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I mean, where do you live?
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I feel like if somebody reported that in California, New York, they would it would be this huge deal.
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Well, look, the bottom line is she s a victim.
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And whether or not she s setting this up over and over again in her life, you know, that s what we don t like subconsciously.
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Exactly.
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Because of her history, it almost sounds like to a classic case of PTSD, post-traumatic stress, because of the way she s, you know, acting and reacting and coping.
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And when she talks about kind of almost
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you know, being bored, almost like numbing out.
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Yeah, that part, that was the initial email that I actually cut off because for brevity s sake, but her initial problem was.
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It wasn t even this bully thing.
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It was like, I m bored of my social relationships.
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And I was like, why are you bored with everyone?
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Oh, well, this guy threatened to stalk and rape me.
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And I was like, what?
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Details.
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Well, yeah.
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And then she s saying she s having trouble with authenticity.
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And so usually what happens with that when you ve had something traumatic like this incident and probably other incidences in her life happen is that she s coping by
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setting up situations where she s not expressing herself, not getting close to anybody in fear of getting hurt again.
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So she s not connecting.
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And then my other question to her is what is the definition of bored?
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Like, I don t know what that really means.
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And is she she s getting bored because she s not in these abusive relationships?
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Do you know what I m saying?
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Like, there s almost this sense of like she she sets up situations to create that
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Like, I don t know, almost chemistry for her.
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Or otherwise she s bored.
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But I want to be super clear because it sounds like we re blaming the victim here for having these problems.
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No, but she wrote in questions that she s wanting to have authentic relationships and not be bored.
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So that s, I guess, what my questions are to help her pass that.
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That s true.
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I mean, there s obviously a common denominator here.
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It s happened multiple times, which seems unusual.
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And again, not saying it s your fault, Heather, at all, saying that maybe there s something in your past that filters this in and lets people know it s okay.
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Exactly.
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Because I know just from being, and this is a vastly different situation, men will bully other men, even if those other men aren t normally the type to bully people, if there s just certain types of people where you almost like can t help it.
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I feel the pull myself.
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I don t do it because I m not an a-hole.
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But I know people that are really nice that are like, oh, that guy, he s such a little blah, blah, blah.
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And I m like, wow, I ve never heard this person talk like that about anybody.
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And I can see how younger guys, more immature guys would just... I hate to say begging to be picked on these guys, but there s just something about them that just says, pick on me.
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And whether or not you do it is what is the character which makes you, you know, as a man.
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We all, I feel like, know some of these people, and if you re being bullied at work by this guy, that could have been a one-off, but the fact that it also happened at your last job with a different person, seems weird.
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Yeah, I would love to help her with just in terms of her confidence and also the way she asserts herself and the boundaries she sets with people.
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Like I think that s why I ask these questions about her history to really kind of find out where it s coming from so she can have more healthy relationships in her workplace with men, all of it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, definitely.
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Wow, really scary though.
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I find it totally repulsive that somebody would ever quote-unquote jokingly threaten to stalk and rape somebody.
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That is totally insane.
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Horrible.
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That is totally insane, totally disturbing.
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That guy should be in freaking jail, not working with you in the next office.
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I mean, that s ridiculous.
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Alright.
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Josie says, I m very happily married to my husband of five years.
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He s an amazing guy.
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I feel really lucky to have found this kind of success in a relationship.
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Of course, we have our spats like anyone else, but overall, I would rate my marriage a 10 out of 10.
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My question pertains to many of my single friends.
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I am often in the position of going out with girlfriends or guy friends or both and often receive the request to act as a wing woman.
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I d really like to bring my skills in this department to the next level.
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I had fun dating and some of this is selfishly motivated because it allows me to still participate in the scene without being the actual target and gives my husband and I other couples to hang with.
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But mostly I just like to help my single friends find true love at their request.
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When I wing for my female friends, I feel awkward trying to dodge becoming the target.
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And when I wing for my male friends, I feel it s equally stifled and unclear what I m trying to accomplish.
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How can I be a better wing woman?
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Please answer this as it applies to both female and male friends.
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What do you think, Kim?
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Because this is, I originally had my kind of thing prepared, but you brought up an interesting point I hadn t thought of right off the bat.
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Well, my first question is, what is she gaining from this?
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Like, I mean, she said, like, the thing that kind of popped out was that it allows me to still participate in the scene without being an actual target.
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So there s something she s getting.
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Yeah, a little validation.
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Yeah, a little bit, which is fine.
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I mean, look, I think it s healthy to enjoy
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you know, flirting and all that, especially when you re in a marriage.
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But it s really kind of digging deep and figuring out what it is, you know, she s gaining from this, you know.
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And then the other thing, look, I do this for a living, right?
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I go out in the field and I help women meet men and I teach them.
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And that s exactly what I do.
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So my, I guess my advice to her is like, let the professionals be the professionals and let her be a friend.
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Cause there s other ways she could really help her friend without being a quote unquote wing girl.
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She may also be like, because she s like, oh, but I m always the target.
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Yeah, because you re more outgoing.
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You have no outcome in mind because you re married.
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So your friend s sitting there shy, and you re all the outgoing one.
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And the guy s like, I don t want the shy, quiet one now.
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I would go so far to say that she might even be hurting her friends more than helping.
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Definitely.
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Right?
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Because now the friends feel like shit.
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Yeah.
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Because she s not getting, you know, they re not getting the results that she does.
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Right.
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And so, you know, I would say definitely, like, refer out to a professional who can see them neutrally and actually know what they re doing.
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And frankly, female friends don t necessarily need wing women.
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Yes, they do.
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Yes they do.
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I mean maybe they do but for me it s like I find it annoying when a girl s trying to set me up in the past trying to set me up with another girl because it s super contrived.
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The best thing to do would be to invite us out together as a group
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And even if they re like, yeah, you know, Angela is, is single and she s cool and you should just get to know her.
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That s it.
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Don t be all, so Jordan, tell us, tell Angela and I about this.
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Cause I m like, I get it.
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You re trying to get me to sell myself and it s, it s really annoying.
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And then it s like, Angela, tell Jordan about work.
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And I m like, look, we don t need a babysitter.
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We re both adults here.
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If it s two super shy people, just introduce them.
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Somebody and just facilitate it.
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Make the space safe.
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Don t be involved in the interaction.
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Yeah, I mean, I agree in the context that you re talking about.
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I see what you re saying.
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But, you know, I m wondering if this woman is thinking that like she just is helping women go out and flirt and how to capture guys attention and initiate conversation and all that.
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And if that s the case, like even that s not helpful, like again, because they re all going to like her.
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Right.
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No, it s not.
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And so that s the female perspective.
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I know it s maybe not the ideal answer, but for the male perspective, it s going to be a little bit different because what we need as guys out there to try to help us meet women is you need to socially proof us.
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Women who we re talking to need to see that you re with us as a friend only.
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So don t be.
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I find like a lot of female wing women like they lay it on too thick where it s a little ambiguous whether or not she has a crush on the guy and then the other women are like, I don t need the drama.
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It needs to be super platonic, but you also need to socially proof him in that like, oh, he s so cool.
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We ve known each other for years.
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He s friends with my husband.
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You want to drop that stuff in.
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That way it completely disqualifies you as a potential
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rival for this guy, and then you want to sell him a little bit, but not so hard that it s obvious.
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Not like, he s cool, he s successful, and he s single, because then women are like, normal women, in my opinion, are like, well, why?
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Why are you selling this great catch so hard?
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Right?
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What s the deal?
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So initially what we need is the social proof from you.
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Introductions would be great.
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Don t grab her by the hand, drag her all the way across the bar and be like, Jordan, this is Angela.
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That s awkward.
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Don t do that.
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I ve seen that.
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I ve been in a part of that.
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It s terrible.
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Just start chatting with her like a normal person.
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Don t make it the whole outcome of your whole night.
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See, I find this email strongly worded enough where I m getting suspicious that she wants to go out and just
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plow the whole place over until somebody gets hooked up, until she hooks up her friends, and that s not the way it s gonna be.
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Chat with people, get to know people, apply the AOC concepts so that you re like, oh, this girl s really cool.
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You know what, you should meet my friend Bob.
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He s really cool.
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He s over at the table with my husband.
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Do you wanna come over and join us?
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That s how you make the intro.
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Don t force it down each other s throat.
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It makes it more awkward.
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You re doing more harm than good, especially because
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A lot of times if you lead too strongly and you re really trying to kind of force the interaction between the guy and the girl, the guy feels a little bit emasculated because he can t lead and he feels like he looks like a chump.
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It s kind of like here s my big sister or my female friend once again trying to put a girl in my lap.
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figuratively or literally because I can t do it on my own.
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It s actually really annoying.
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And you re going to make him look bad in the eyes of everybody, frankly, especially himself.
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Then he s just going to shut down.
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SPEAKER_01
He s not going to want to try to rescue an interaction that he didn t even start.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s just, you know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_01
So, so be easy with it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Your best bet.
1
SPEAKER_01
Make a lot of female friends.
1
SPEAKER_01
Ask them if they want to join you at the table where the other guy is.
1
SPEAKER_01
Don t be dragging people around.
1
SPEAKER_01
Plan matchmaker.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s more awkward than people think.
2
SPEAKER_03
They think they re doing a favor, and I totally get it.
2
SPEAKER_03
She s probably a very sweet lady, and she loves to go out there and do this, and it looks like she s doing everybody a favor, but done wrong, you become really annoying to hang out with, actually.
2
SPEAKER_03
So I hope that helps.
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2
SPEAKER_03
Dylan says, dear Jordan, I recently discovered AOC, et cetera, et cetera, dot, dot, dot, it s amazing.
2
SPEAKER_03
We ll just collapse those paragraphs into that, I appreciate it.
2
SPEAKER_03
He says, my best friend, I ve got an issue with my best friend, it s bothered me for a while, I think you re the man to provide the best advice.
2
SPEAKER_03
He s 23 years old and completely hung up on his ex-girlfriend from school.
2
SPEAKER_03
They started dating when they were 15, holy cow.
2
SPEAKER_03
She dumped him two years ago and hooked up with a new boyfriend within 11 days.
2
SPEAKER_03
Ouch.
2
SPEAKER_03
She s still seeing this guy.
2
SPEAKER_03
My friend has been out for dinner since then with other girls, but he has put his ex on a pedestal so high, no other woman stands a chance at a second date.
2
SPEAKER_03
He s told me he thinks her new relationship won t last, even though it s been over two years now.
2
SPEAKER_03
and he s waiting in the wings to try to win her back.
2
SPEAKER_03
He s a successful guy.
2
SPEAKER_03
He s recently won a very high profile competition related to his career that led to local TV and radio exposure and a huge cash prize.
2
SPEAKER_03
He should be on top of the world right now and enjoying the ample female attention he is getting.
2
SPEAKER_03
Instead, he becomes more bitter and cynical by the day because none of it is helping him win his ex back.
2
SPEAKER_03
He does favors for her at the drop of a hat and will constantly cancel time with the lads at the last minute to still hang out with her, quote unquote, as friends.
2
SPEAKER_03
I feel that whenever I try to speak directly about how this issue is affecting him and our friend group, he becomes more determined to win her back.
2
SPEAKER_03
I ve talked about it with our other friends.
2
SPEAKER_03
None of us have a clue on how to help him move on.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yes, it s annoying as hell for us when he still brings her along on a guy s night out, but more importantly, I want him to stop being miserable and enjoy his life.
2
SPEAKER_03
What do I do?
2
SPEAKER_03
That s so, oh man, I feel bad because the reason, he s not just putting her up on a pedestal to try to get her back because she s quote unquote so special.
2
SPEAKER_03
He s been so harshly rejected by her in favor of another guy that he feels like the only way to get rid of that rejection is to get her back so that she can be like, I was so wrong.
2
SPEAKER_03
So it has even less to do with her than it does about his own ego and fixing that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Alright, you totally took the words out of my mouth.
2
SPEAKER_00
Boom!
2
SPEAKER_00
And next question?
2
SPEAKER_00
No.
2
SPEAKER_00
I really was just exactly going to say that and it has to do with, like, really, what is he trying to win?
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not her.
2
SPEAKER_03
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s himself.
2
SPEAKER_03
I mean, to a degree, he definitely has idealized her and made her greater than all the other girls.
2
SPEAKER_03
Completely.
2
SPEAKER_03
But the reason is because that helps his stated outcome.
2
SPEAKER_03
It justifies his actions.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_03
Which are screw everything else up to get her back because my ego is in massive pain.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, the other thing that we have to note is that he s 23.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it was a six year relationship.
2
SPEAKER_00
And these are formative years when you re learning about relationships and dating.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that was like, what, six years?
2
SPEAKER_00
That was a long time.
2
SPEAKER_03
He s probably never had that dating experience or a girlfriend of any kind other than this one.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s his only frame of reference.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then he got rejected.
2
SPEAKER_00
So what you re saying is true.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s like kind of trying to get that back.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s the rejection piece.
2
SPEAKER_00
And of course, I m always going to tie it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So what where else has he gotten rejected in his life?
2
SPEAKER_00
What is he really trying to correct here?
2
SPEAKER_00
But the question is really from his friend.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so like how how to help his friend.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, gosh, there s not much you can do as a friend except, you know, support him.
2
SPEAKER_00
But also, I m wondering about a little tough love here.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, how much are they coddling him?
2
SPEAKER_03
And... It doesn t sound like they re, but we don t really know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
We don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you know, you may even want to go so far as to say, dude, like, I m not going to go out with you again unless you do A, B, and C. That sucks.
2
SPEAKER_03
But because the risk is he could then say, fine, screw you guys.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then he ll be so much more isolated because he ll only have her to look forward to.
2
SPEAKER_03
And he could get super depressed.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, or maybe it ll force him to look at himself, like when everybody s kind of giving him that message.
2
SPEAKER_00
But overall, honestly, I think he should seek out coaching or a therapist.
2
SPEAKER_03
I agree with that.
2
SPEAKER_03
One thing I will say, and this could blow up in my face big time, but I don t think that it will.
2
SPEAKER_03
The one thing you have in common, Dylan, with your buddy s ex is you probably both want him to move on.
2
SPEAKER_03
So when she s out as friends, you should actually, and this again could blow up in your face, because you could become like the enemy guy.
2
SPEAKER_03
But if your whole friend circle says, look, we like you.
2
SPEAKER_03
Look, Jane, we like you.
2
SPEAKER_03
You re a cool chick.
2
SPEAKER_03
Everybody likes you when you re dating Dylan.
2
SPEAKER_03
We like you when you re not dating Dylan.
2
SPEAKER_03
He needs to move on.
2
SPEAKER_03
Can we agree on that?
2
SPEAKER_03
She ll probably be like, oh my God, yes, thank God, he totally does.
2
SPEAKER_03
Okay, please stop coming out with us on Guys Night Out because you re accidentally, totally not your fault, inadvertently giving him hope that you ll eventually get back together.
2
SPEAKER_03
That s ridiculous, I ve been dating this other guy for two years.
2
SPEAKER_03
I m so bad at thinking of names on the spot.
2
SPEAKER_03
I ve been dating this other guy for two years.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yes, but here s what s going on.
2
SPEAKER_03
You will embarrass your buddy a little bit, but at this point, you ve gotta rip off this bandaid.
2
SPEAKER_03
You re never getting back together.
2
SPEAKER_03
The sooner he realizes this, the sooner he can move on.
2
SPEAKER_03
The only thing that s gonna help him, unfortunately, also move on, aside from a cold dose of that truth, which he still won t even believe, it has to be like intervention style, which is humiliating.
2
SPEAKER_03
He has to get skills to, because this is a scarcity mindset.
2
SPEAKER_03
He thinks he ll never find anybody like her because he doesn t have the skills to do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_03
So he needs to work on himself.
2
SPEAKER_03
Now, the bait and switch here is that if he works on himself enough, hey, dude, if you work on yourself enough, Jane might actually like you again, because here s what she likes in this other guy.
2
SPEAKER_03
So you ve got to be more charismatic and more friendly and more socially connected, more confident and more.
2
SPEAKER_03
So he could work on himself and then eventually he will stop caring about her.
2
SPEAKER_03
But he would start working on himself for the so-called benefit, which probably would never come of being able to, quote, unquote, win her back.
2
SPEAKER_03
That s a tough one though.
2
SPEAKER_03
That s a tough sell.
2
SPEAKER_03
But I think tough love, you might have to throw the intervention thing in there and be like, look, me, me, all the guys and Jane need to sit you down and make you realize like, look, she doesn t hate you.
2
SPEAKER_03
You re not a loser.
2
SPEAKER_03
She just needed more dating experience.
2
SPEAKER_03
You need that too.
2
SPEAKER_03
You re not getting it because you re, you ve imprisoned yourself.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s exactly and you re dragging us in there with you every time you bring Jane out thinking it s gonna happen While we re all trying to have fun because we re just watching you beat yourself up Yeah, and even though he s broken up you re right every time he sees her every time he talks to her every time he just sees her smile it like kicks him way back into the healing process and so he cannot move on it s like any breakup you gotta go cold turkey
2
SPEAKER_03
He s sitting around fantasizing about this girl and every time she s like, yeah, I guess as a last resort since my new boyfriend is busy I ll go out with you as friends in a group.
2
SPEAKER_03
He s like it s like dumb and dumber.
2
SPEAKER_03
So you re saying there s a chance Right and and she s like whatever I ll get a beer on you because I m bored and he s all oh, yeah I m gonna do some work on this relationship fix tonight, and it s you re totally on different
3
SPEAKER_00
Pages I feel bad because his friend is just making a total ass out of himself.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, like he s just Pissing off his friends his girlfriend s laughing at him her boyfriend thinks he s a joke That s why he doesn t even mind.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve got a new boyfriend s like hit cloud tracks.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t even care Yeah, it s so not a threat that it s not even a problem anyway
3
SPEAKER_00
Moving right along.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is Jake.
3
SPEAKER_00
Jake says, I know it s a topic you try to steer clear of on your show, but religion has been one of my major setbacks in dating.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was raised in a very religious family in the capital of the Bible Belt, where I currently live.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ll be going to college for the next three years there as well.
3
SPEAKER_00
In the past few years, I ve made some life changes.
3
SPEAKER_00
I no longer subscribe to any religion.
3
SPEAKER_00
The problem is that all the girls I seem to be interested in are nice Christian girls.
3
SPEAKER_00
Normally, this wouldn t be a problem.
3
SPEAKER_00
Their moral compass is on point.
3
SPEAKER_00
I really appreciate their values.
3
SPEAKER_00
Nice Christian girls can be a ton of fun to hang out with, but the problem is that they tend to be opposed to getting freaky in the sheets.
3
SPEAKER_00
How can I filter in women with a strong moral compass who also wouldn t mind having an actual sexual relationship?
3
SPEAKER_00
I m not looking for a fling either, but someone I could have a relationship with.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thanks, Jake.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have one answer.
3
SPEAKER_00
Move.
3
SPEAKER_00
Move.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the truth is, look, this is a good sign that you re attracting and interested in strong Christian girls.
3
SPEAKER_00
It means you have a good moral compass that you didn t throw away your moral compass when you when you got rid of your religion.
3
SPEAKER_00
You kept all the good parts of the religion.
3
SPEAKER_00
You got rid of the crap that wasn t serving you.
3
SPEAKER_00
I applaud that.
3
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, if you re going to college in the Bible Belt at and I m making this up, but like something something Christian College of Alabama.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re not getting any.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not happening.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right, so you ve changed, yet everybody around you has not.
3
SPEAKER_00
You have not changed your environment.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thus, you are going to find yourself, yeah, it s oil and water.
3
SPEAKER_00
You change to oil, you re stuck.
3
SPEAKER_00
Until you decide not to be.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think parts of him still have like there s a pull of some of the, you know, upbringing and things that he feels familiar with and comfortable with.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
So it s, you know, moving to a place or having different experiences where he s going to meet, you know, other people who have other experiences so he can really understand what that it s all about.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, even if you have to take a break from college and get a job somewhere,
3
SPEAKER_00
I would go to a larger city, up north.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can only, I don t know where the Bible Belt is, but I assume it s in the south somewhere.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know, I assume the same thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Go to Chicago, get a job there, or switch schools.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I don t know if you live at home, and that s, you know, you can t, because you re financing school by living rent-free, I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
But if you can, take a break, figure out what you want.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s gonna be a big deal, because college is very formative.
3
SPEAKER_00
The least important thing you learn in college is the stuff you re learning in your classes.
3
SPEAKER_01
So true.
3
SPEAKER_00
Unless you re in a trade school.
3
SPEAKER_00
So go switch schools.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s going to be tough.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re going to be the conservative guy from the Bible Belt who s no longer super Christian.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s fine though.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or study abroad.
3
SPEAKER_00
Study abroad.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do anything but stay there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s it.
3
SPEAKER_00
You got to get out of there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Next.
3
SPEAKER_00
Auntie Marsha.
3
SPEAKER_00
I call her that because she writes in all the time and she s you know older than me.
3
SPEAKER_00
Old enough to be mother-ish.
3
SPEAKER_01
You mean my age?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, slightly older.
3
SPEAKER_00
She says, oh, how I wish my son had the financial means and desire to attend AOC.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s almost 23.
3
SPEAKER_00
He graduated college in May.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s living on his own and barely making ends meet, but they are meeting.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s a good looking guy, but OMG.
3
SPEAKER_00
He wants a career in TV and film.
3
SPEAKER_00
Tough biz.
3
SPEAKER_00
He had a gig in our neck of the Metroplex this week and slept here a couple nights to shorten his commute.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yesterday when he left for work as a production assistant, the most entry-level job on the production, he was wearing polyester camo shorts, a wrinkled t-shirt, and Sperry s, which I think are loafers with no socks or something.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, they are.
3
SPEAKER_00
While he was showered, he was unshaven.
3
SPEAKER_00
I suggested he may want to up his game a notch, and his reply was, I m just a PA.
3
SPEAKER_00
Ah, you and I know that s how you stay a PA.
3
SPEAKER_00
Totally true.
3
SPEAKER_00
Today he had better shorts and a better t-shirt, slightly less wrinkled, but the t-shirt was from World of Beers.
3
SPEAKER_00
His reply, it was free.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, he s so immature.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is there an AOC podcast or two that addresses how you look and the importance of attire no matter what level you re presently in?
3
SPEAKER_00
I couldn t find one.
3
SPEAKER_00
He does listen to the ones I suggest.
3
SPEAKER_00
Also, I heard you say guys and gals.
3
SPEAKER_00
Kudos for you for including us.
3
SPEAKER_00
You have so much to offer the entire population.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re welcome.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is for men and women, and sometimes I feel like I have to be so unnecessarily explicit about the unisex nature of what we do at AOC, but I get why.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, oh my goodness, man.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, first, can I just say she can t be that old because she said OMG like three times.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think she s just hip.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s a hip older.
3
SPEAKER_00
She s hip.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I would love to do a podcast on just the subject alone, of course.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, look, I was probably like that at 23, not quite as bad.
3
SPEAKER_00
I still dressed nicely, but I was still kind of like whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I know tons of guys that were like, world of beer is cool, bro.
3
SPEAKER_00
Or like, you know, they were some porny thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
I saw a guy in a Pornhub t-shirt the other day and I was just like, oh,
3
SPEAKER_00
Ironic or not, you are super ostracized by everyone you even walk near.
3
SPEAKER_00
You don t even know.
3
SPEAKER_00
But you do have to dress for the job you want.
3
SPEAKER_00
Doesn t mean you got to wear a suit every day just because you want to be a professor, but you got to outdress your colleagues.
3
SPEAKER_00
Always.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s a rule.
3
SPEAKER_00
Outdress your colleagues.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m not saying you got to look.
3
SPEAKER_00
three levels above everyone, you ll probably just get ostracized, beat up, whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
But like, if you re a PA, wear clothes that fit, t-shirt that s professional, well-fitting.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because look, if I m looking for a PA to move up the next rung, I m not gonna pick the biggest schlep.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m gonna pick the guy that looks the part.
3
SPEAKER_00
all other things being equal.
3
SPEAKER_00
Of course I want somebody who s got the experience I feel can handle it, but you bet your butt I m judging based on the way you look.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you look like you rolled out of bed, showered but didn t shave, wearing a World of Beers wrinkly t-shirt, I m not gonna trust you with anything above the level where you are.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, you know I love the subject, obviously, given what I do.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I take people shopping and I teach them about this stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
Look, it takes 30 seconds to make a first impression, probably less now, they re saying in research.
3
SPEAKER_01
And people are judging on two things, the clothes that you wear and the attitude that you have.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so everything that you put on your body is a message.
3
SPEAKER_01
It tells a story about who you are in the world.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not even what you say that s important as how you look.
3
SPEAKER_01
So, yeah, whether you re a PA or you re a lawyer or you re a doctor, again, it s a mindset.
3
SPEAKER_01
And actually, there s been studies that show that you will be more successful and your performance will go up.
3
SPEAKER_01
just based on the clothes that you wear because there s also a shifting that s happening in your mind.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s even a term that they, I think it s called enclosed cognition.
3
SPEAKER_01
New York Times put out an article about this and they actually saw shifting in the brain and that people perform better when they wore certain clothes, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
For sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, like what I m wearing now, this is at home stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is chill stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
I would never go anywhere important wearing these like,
3
SPEAKER_00
Lulu, lemon pants, and a t-shirt.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just won t.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m not even, I m going to change before dinner even though I don t have to impress anyone.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because I just, I m not even, there s a fog that gets lifted when you change into things that fit nicely, snugly, are clean.
3
SPEAKER_00
The fact that he doesn t realize that means that he s 23 and nothing more.
3
SPEAKER_00
But the fact is, if you look sharp, you will start to lead a little bit in your role.
3
SPEAKER_00
You ll feel a little confident.
3
SPEAKER_00
When you start to lead a little bit more,
3
SPEAKER_00
That s what people notice about you.
3
SPEAKER_00
Not the fact that you just showed up on time and you can hold the mic, the boom, or whatever.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, and this becomes the confidence issue, too, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, maybe I wonder, like, does he see himself moving up?
3
SPEAKER_01
Does he want to move up?
3
SPEAKER_01
Does he have low confidence?
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, that kind of all, like, goes hand in hand, too, with how he s putting himself out there.
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SPEAKER_01
And the other thing I want to say is he doesn t have to break the bank to look put together.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, he could go to, like, H&M, get some nice fitted clothes and really look sharp.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
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SPEAKER_00
And any T-shirt you got for free,
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SPEAKER_00
Don t ever wear that again.
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SPEAKER_00
Throw it away.
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SPEAKER_00
If you got it, don t throw it away.
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SPEAKER_00
Donate it to Goodwill.
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SPEAKER_00
If you got it for free, it better look awesome.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like I ve gotten some, I get a lot of cool free stuff from companies or whatever, and I ve gotten some free t-shirts from construction companies that like, they fit rad and they look really good.
3
SPEAKER_00
I still wouldn t wear that to work.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s a workout shirt if it looks good and it was free.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Everything else, no.
3
SPEAKER_00
You need to dress nicely.
3
SPEAKER_00
Buy clothing for work.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
That you want.
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SPEAKER_01
That fits your body.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
The reason the free stuff, not just because all free stuff looks bad, it s because since if you buy it, you know it looks good on you and feels good.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you get it for free, eh.
3
SPEAKER_00
But if you put your money where your mouth is, then you know it s suitable.
3
SPEAKER_01
For whatever purpose.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he keeps saying, oh, well, I m just a PA, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So, again, he s always saying that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know, does he want to move up?
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SPEAKER_01
And even PAs should dress nice.
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SPEAKER_01
Like you said, Jordan and I, even if we re recording or we re doing things behind the scenes, when you re dressed well, you perform better.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
So when I first built the studio in the house, I was like, I don t even need to wear pants.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can record the show with the pants on.
3
SPEAKER_00
That was a bad idea because you have to get your game face on.
3
SPEAKER_00
You can t have your game face on when you re hanging out in your underwear.
3
SPEAKER_00
You got to look good.
4
SPEAKER_00
I work from home, I never wear my PJs all day, I always shower, I clean up, I trim my beard, I wash my hair, even if I know I m not gonna leave the house at all that day.
4
SPEAKER_00
Because I need a performance, a performance that I m giving every time I record.
4
SPEAKER_00
Do you notice a difference when you do that, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely, absolutely.
4
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, excellent.
4
SPEAKER_00
I hope you all enjoyed that.
4
SPEAKER_00
Don t forget you can reach us at Friday at theartofcharm.com.
4
SPEAKER_00
We read everything.
4
SPEAKER_00
We d love to hear from you.
4
SPEAKER_00
I did a weekly video this week about intercepting our thoughts and examining them to see whether they re true or not and reprogramming our beliefs little by little to serve us better.
4
SPEAKER_00
A link to that video in the blog post can be found at theartofcharm.com slash FMF46.
4
SPEAKER_00
Of course, we also have the Art of Charm Challenge at theartofcharm.com slash challenge or text charmed
4
SPEAKER_00
charm ed to three, three, four, four, four step-by-step guides on how to become better at making personal and professional connections, becoming a better networker, increasing your personal social capital and your charisma.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s for both guys and gals.
4
SPEAKER_00
So check it out at the art of charm.com slash challenge or text charmed.
4
SPEAKER_00
to 33444.
4
SPEAKER_00
Quick shout out to Garrick in Mozambique, he s in the Peace Corps.
4
SPEAKER_00
Checking out AOC on what I can imagine is really slow internet.
4
SPEAKER_00
And Frederick listening in Tokyo.
4
SPEAKER_00
If you re in a strange land listening to my familiar voice, I d love to hear it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Hit me up, I ll shout you out.
4
SPEAKER_00
More from AOC at theartofcharm.com.
4
SPEAKER_00
Now have a great weekend, get out there and connect, and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
4
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for listening to the art of charm.
4
SPEAKER_01
Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and more at the art of charm podcast.com.
4
SPEAKER_01
Boom.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s a wrap.