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Hey ASP comrades, Bill Kasky here without Brian Neal today.
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We have had so much trouble trying to schedule a recording time that we decided that we would just give you access to an ASP classic.
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It was a recording we did last year.
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It was one of our most popular episodes.
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In fact, it was the fifth most popular episode on record here at the podcast, and that includes over 600 episodes over 14 years.
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It was an interview with a guy named Brian Gray, who we eventually did a webinar with called Winning the Buyer s Brain.
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You can get access to that webinar, if you like what you hear here, at winningthebuyersbrain.com.
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But here s our interview with Brian.
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Take notes.
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I think you ll find some of his concepts unique and very useful and very applicable if you re in professional selling today.
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So here s the interview we did with Brian Gray.
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And we ve got a very special guest, and we re going to treat this a little bit differently than just an interview.
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Brian Gray joins us.
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Brian is president and CEO of Revenue Path Group, RPG.
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They re here in Indianapolis.
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And we ve known Brian for years.
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He s run several digital media shops.
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He s been involved in the community and just a great guy.
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And so we re happy to have him on.
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We are going to be working with Brian at a client that Brian and I share here in Indianapolis.
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And so the purpose of this meeting, we weren t going to do a podcast.
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We were just going to talk about this client and what Brian s going to come in and do.
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But we thought, well, heck, let s just turn the mics on.
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I like it.
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I think Brian s message, Brian Neal, of course, your message is always good.
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Yeah, and we re both Brians with a Y. With a Y, yeah.
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We ve had severe issues.
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So I think Brian Gray s message is really vital to hear for our podcast listeners, just based on what I know about it.
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So Brian, welcome.
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Yeah, thanks guys.
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Great to be here.
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So why don t you give us a little taste of how you got into this, because you re in a—what niche are you in, and then how you got here, because you ve done a lot of things that have kind of led you down this path to get where you are today.
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It just seems like a perfect match for you.
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Yeah, well, thank you.
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I, I ve always been obsessed with creating the perfect sales opportunity, right?
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When you think about most people, they think, well, if I had the right person in the room, it wasn t the right time and in sales seems so inefficient.
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And in pursuit of that perfect sales call, you know, that s what I ve been looking for the last 25, 30 years.
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And over that journey, I ve met people involved in the neuroscience field.
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From a neuromarketing perspective, I ve been involved in the sales training field.
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And I feel like today with this world converging like it is, where the internet s bringing us closer and closer together, it s created some challenges that most organizations are not prepared to deal with.
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So I formed a group, a revenue path group, RPG, to help groups identify ways they can attract more, convert more, and sell more.
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Because we believe that the world is changing much faster than many of us can deal with.
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And what happens when the world changes so rapidly, it creates a state of dislocation.
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And we call them, we call the three deadly C s.
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Commoditization, consensus decision-making, and compressed selling time.
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So not only does everybody sound the same, decision-making teams keep getting bigger and bigger, which creates delay in what does time do to deals.
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Kills deals.
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Every single time.
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And now we have less space time than ever.
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Because when you think about before the internet, right, which many business leaders today did business before the internet, salespeople were actually information distributors, right?
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They were sharing knowledge and wisdom with one or two decision makers.
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Now, with the internet, 70% of the buyer s journey is complete before they invite you in.
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And now you re walking into a room and there are five or six or seven people sitting around that room with their arms folded staring at you saying, why should I pick you?
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I have three other alternatives staring me right in the face.
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So we believe most firms aren t prepared to compete and win in a world where everybody sounds the same, they can t contain the room, and they have less face time than ever.
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So really, we address that first and foremost, because I think that creates the best fastest breakthrough for our clients.
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My educated guess is that everybody listening to this podcast has experienced exactly what you just talked about for sure.
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And I would even add to that.
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So you walk into the room, there s the five to seven people standing there with their arms crossed saying, why should I pick you?
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There are also four to five people that aren t in the room that are going to be part of the deal, too, that just couldn t make it or didn t want to or whatever.
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Ah, those decision makers.
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Totally.
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So it s a really, really good
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topic to talk about.
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Brian, that s interesting because, you know, one of my leading questions is always, you know, have you found it very difficult to get the right decision makers in the room, right?
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Hey, Bill, we love what you had to say, we loved it, but they want to go a different direction.
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I thought, well, why weren t they in the room, right?
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Does they even exist?
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And secondly, why weren t they in the room?
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And the reason they weren t in the room is this wasn t worth their time.
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Yes.
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Right.
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So, much like if you want to stop being a commodity, you have to communicate in a way that separates yourself from your competitors because your prospect s brain won t separate you for you, right?
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And if you want to get higher-level decision-makers in that room, you ve got a message in a way that makes it worth his or her time, the gentleman or gentlelady s time, which is— Oh, good.
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Well done.
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Very nice.
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Applause.
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Applause track, please.
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If we don t message in a way that s compelling enough, which I believe most companies communicate way too low, right?
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They sell at the way wrong level.
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And if they really thought of the impact of what they did, the CEO, the presidents would show up in that room, but it s on them to do that.
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That s so true.
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I was just at a client yesterday.
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We were discussing this idea.
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Bill talks about this a lot about belief.
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and what you do.
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And I was at a SAS company, right?
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We love to talk about the SAS companies around here.
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And that model is so straight, right?
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Get a demo.
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Do the demo.
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And I m coaching them on their demo content.
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And I m just starting to work with this division of this company.
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I m like, oh my gosh.
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To your point, Brian, all the data in there, all the information that s coming at these people is not geared
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for an owner of a business or a franchise or whatever.
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No, and is it the wrong part of the brain?
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I think that the buying decision happens at the limbic brain level.
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and we present the neocortex level, which those are two distinct parts of the brain.
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Neocortex is where logic, data, facts, figures.
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Intellectual.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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It takes a disproportionate share of our blood flow and calories to keep it awake, so we choose not to use our neocortex when it comes to decision making.
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Our limbic brain is comprised of the reptilian and middle brain, is responsible for 90% of all decisions.
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The decisions that range from I drove home and didn t remember it, to walking through the woods on a nice quiet day and you see a stick, but your limbic brain thinks it s a snake, right?
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to how we make a buying decision.
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Limbic brain does not read, right?
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The limbic brain gets distracted easily.
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And all the limbic brain really cares about is eliminating pains, threats, and fears.
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And it falls for a great story every time.
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So think about this, the product demo is designed for something that I care a lot about as a product manager.
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And I m going to take you on this journey that interests me.
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You don t care.
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Yeah, it s all about what happens.
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Yeah.
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That s what happens, too.
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The product people stay in the office, in the conference room, whiteboard, da-da-da, come up with this great, that s what s happening, too, all the time.
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Have you ever read the book The Dragons of Eden?
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I have not.
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OK, look up the book The Dragons of Eden.
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It s by our friend Carl Sagan.
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It s from the 70s.
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Awesome, awesome.
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And he talks about the book is about billions of the evolution of the brain.
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That s what it s about.
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And literally, he takes you through where that s all creatures used to have was the limbic brain when they first started, and how the layers have gone on over time.
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So here s a question.
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It s like, done with Carl Sagan.
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He s like, I m going to get off of it.
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Keep going, but yes, Bill.
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Yeah, no.
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I yield to the gentleman from Carmel.
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There are no gentle ladies here, are there?
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No, no.
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Here s what I see.
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It is very difficult.
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We talked about product managers, and we kind of threw them under the bus because they re focused on their products.
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But it is very hard to see a product through someone else s eyes.
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So we always see our product through our own eyes, and thus we resort to features and benefits selling.
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And let me tell you all the reasons you should work with us.
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What s the key to flipping the switch there and having me as a sales professional get out of my own head and get into the prospect s mind so that when we present something, we can at least have it be somewhat interesting to them?
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That s a great question.
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I speak a lot around the country about this as well.
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And you ve got to think about, because we talk to that person, that perpetual learner, right?
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They always want to keep learning.
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What we have to wake them up with is the fact that what they re saying doesn t make sense.
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Don t say to Brian Gray, I m a lifetime learner, because we know that you haven t learned anything in 20 years.
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Not always, but we were just laughing before we went on.
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But you don t need to label yourself, right?
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Exactly.
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So the key, the first thing to understand is when people realize how the brain makes a buying decision, that s the most important thing is to understand that it doesn t care about you, right?
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The buying part of the brain is insanely self-centered.
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We ve known that intellectually for years.
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So why do we show up talking about ourselves and our features and benefits, right?
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So we try to get people to understand that what they re saying is wrong.
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And then it shows up and manifests itself in recent losses.
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Have you ever had this situation?
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So we ve got to get them to realize that what I am doing is not right.
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And then we kind of roll out how the brain does make a buying decision.
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And then we start teaching them to say, think about the pains and concerns and
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threats that your prospect has all day, every day.
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Forget what you do.
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Just what do they drag around as excess baggage all day long is always on their mind.
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And the key then, this is that we re shortcutting six weeks worth of work into five minutes here.
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But what you have to do is to be able to apply the value you create against those deep-rooted concerns, threats, and fears.
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Not with what you do per se, but how can what you do really help them impact what s always on their mind?
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And it s a subtle but very significant shift, because that s what s going to get the reptilian brain and the limbic brain to pay attention.
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And that s why people fall asleep, because your brain is what, 3% of your body mass, right?
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2% of your body mass, weighs three pounds, requires 20% of your blood flow and calories to keep it awake.
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So it s a very high energy— Just to stay awake.
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Absolutely.
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Which is why you never want to present anyone out there an hour after lunch because the stomach is the highest energy consuming organ that you have.
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And an hour after lunch, the brain s in battle with the stomach.
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Guess what s going to win every single time?
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Which is why people fall asleep in your presentations.
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You ve got to bring your A plus game an hour after lunch.
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You ve been following me around.
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All my training sessions are 1 to 2.15.
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Is that good?
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Because no one ever says, man, I didn t listen to a word Brian said.
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I slept the whole time.
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But we should buy from him.
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Totally.
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He s good.
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He s good.
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Totally.
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Let s do it.
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So keeping the brain awake is really most of the battle.
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And starting your presentation by talking about yourself is a direct signal to disengage.
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So the key to answer your question in a long, roundabout way, number one, understand how the brain makes a buying decision.
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Understand it doesn t really care about you and what you do until it realizes you can solve a unique threat or a unique threat for them.
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Interesting.
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How does the seller s brain get into this too?
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So I m the seller, I ve got my neocortex brain cooking, I ve got my own limbic brain, and I m trying to connect with Bill s limbic brain.
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How do I have to adjust how I think, or can I, versus just his own?
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Yeah, that s really interesting.
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Because presentations are all built from the neocortex.
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We re going to tell them this, and we re going to share this, and we re building them.
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much different.
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But I see your own limbic brain, you re worried about eliminating your own pains, threats, and fears, meaning cash flow, humiliation of not winning the opportunity.
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And so, I think that those fears or threats need to be dealt with, say, okay, what do I really need to do to make sure I win this opportunity?
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So, from a self-preservation perspective, I don t want to come back and tell my CEO that I thought I told you it was ours, but it s now not ours.
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So when you feel that, then you really make that change.
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I m not going to start by talking about myself.
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I know it s easier to do.
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I know it s habit, but I m going to spend the first four minutes talking about them and not me.
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And we ll have groups tell us all the time that by simply rearranging the order and spending the first few minutes on them and their threats and not you, they start engaging the room and they win opportunities.
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So it s your own threats and fears force you to change behaviors.
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That s good.
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It s the very thing that makes it hard to do is we are preoccupied with our own threats and fears, which makes it difficult to abort those and focus on someone else s.
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Absolutely.
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So we re talking with Brian Gray today.
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Brian is CEO of RPG, Revenue Path Group.
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And tell us a little bit about your business model and kind of how you work and who are good prospects for you and who do you work with typically, not by name,
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Yeah, thank you.
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Business to business focused.
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I love that when there s an intermediary, intermediary being a salesperson, that s been my life and my calling.
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And I love that aspect of it.
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Know that the world s changed.
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So we look for organizations, B2B organizations that are currently struggling with standing out, right?
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They become commoditized.
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They don t know how to deal with multiple decision makers.
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They re used to a process driven approach that just doesn t engage the room.
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and they re really struggling when it s down to them and three other finalists.
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I think there are two really hard parts of sales today.
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Number one, standing out when everybody seems the same, and two, getting someone s attention, right?
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Those are the two hardest parts of the revenue path.
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But we d like to help with groups developing out their three convincing advantages.
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What are the three compelling reasons why I should choose you over everyone else?
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That s critical.
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Now if you can align your organization around that, that s gold.
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But let s at least have your sales team able to articulate the three compelling reasons why they should choose you.
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Then we develop what s called the Neuro Pitch Deck, which is really a presentation designed to follow how the brain makes a buying decision in a visual manner that allows you to keep the brain awake and more importantly, engage the brain so you create great conversation, not arms folded,
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half asleep saying thanks for coming in Bill, we ll get back with you.
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And then finally, we work to train sales teams to really win the room because if you can win the brain, you can then carry the room and if you can carry the room, you could actually close the deal.
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Yeah, it s really, really great.
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Brian, you have a product or an e-book that you would be happy to share with our listeners.
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Tell us about that.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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It s called Sales is Broken.
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And it s for all of us guys and gentle ladies that have been in sales for a long, long time and realize that, wait a minute, this is not the world I was comfortable growing up in.
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And so it really does a good job elaborating on this and how the three deadly C s are impacting your business.
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And where most groups look the same, they sound the same, they act the same.
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and if you don t make those critical adjustments you re going to be commoditized even faster and also become irrelevant.
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So the ebook does a good job of allowing you to share it with others in your organization to get around the same page to start making the right first right changes.
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So if you want a copy of that, here is the URL, advancesellingpodcast.com forward slash broken.
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Put in your email address.
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You ll get it sent to you immediately.
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Advancesellingpodcast.com forward slash broken.
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We ll put that URL in the show notes, too.
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And then maybe down the road, we can do advancesellingpodcast.com slash fixed after we do all this.
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How do you like me now?
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Fixed by Brian with a Y, both of them.
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Did you know that Ron Estes ran against Ron Estes in Kansas?
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No.
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No.
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Oh, his son?
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No, just two other guys.
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And I guess they didn t like each other at all, and it was Ron M. Estes against Ron G. Estes.
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That s brilliant.
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And on Ron M. Estes  Facebook page, it says M stands for America.
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Oh, there s that.
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We appreciate you coming in today.
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This has been really interesting and final words.
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No, no, it s great stuff.
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Good to reconnect with you.
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And I m looking forward to doing some work with you, too, on our co- what do we call it?
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Shared client housing.
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Yeah.
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Thanks, guys.
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See you next time.