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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we discuss the proper use of that ledge above the fireplace.
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Bill shares a high-pitched customer experience story, and we reflect on your beliefs and how they may be affecting your sales outcomes.
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the podcast that gets released blah, blah, blah, blah every week.
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And number one podcast in sales and top 35 on iTunes.
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And we re really pleased and grateful that you follow us each week.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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I m Brian Neal.
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Make sure you go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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You can download some free resources there.
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Also, there s a product called All In that a lot of you have
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Downloaded and purchased, and we get emails all the time about how you enjoy that and how that s changed your sales life.
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So we d love it if you did that.
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Brian, what s going on, man?
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How was your golf last week?
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We talked about golf.
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How did it go?
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Are you going to take up the sport now?
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It s called a shamble.
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So a shamble is different than a scramble.
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Scramble, you play one person s ball in the foursome the whole time.
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The shamble, you can play another person s drive, but then you play your ball the rest of the way out.
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So let s just say I need some lessons.
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You need some lessons.
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We ll just go with that.
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Are you going to take up the sport now?
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I kind of am, yeah.
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Take up the sport s a strong word.
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I m going to try to play more than normal.
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My kids are starting to play a little bit, and I d love to be able to do that with them.
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I did take my kids out last summer one time.
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We belong to a golf club, which is ironic, and I don t golf, but it s for the kids.
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And our golf club is kind of funky, the way it s laid out.
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And some of the tee boxes are the same for two holes, because it s in the city.
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And I got lost.
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I kind of skipped like I teed off on one t-box and teed off backwards with the wrong way So then I walked off the course.
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Come on guys.
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It s not good.
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Yeah, I think I m done completely.
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Oh, I just remembered I got a meeting It s gonna rain boys.
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They re like dad.
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There s no clouds.
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And yeah, I m telling you I can see the radar before I looked at the
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radar boys.
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Hey, I had a really interesting thing.
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I don t know how interesting it was.
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And I m going to tell you this story.
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And I don t want you to think and our listeners to think that I m making fun of this guy for how he did things.
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I m really more poking fun at all of us, because I think we have a little bit of this in all of us.
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And I ll explain what I mean.
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I went to the car wash, very upscale, upscale, and always very friendly.
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very nice.
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And so I rolled my window down.
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He comes over and goes, hello, sir.
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How are you?
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I said, fine.
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And he goes, what two?
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I handed him my card, which gives me two different versions, whether it s under, you know, clear code or unencouraged, whatever.
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He goes, all righty, sir.
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What two features would you like today?
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And I said, clear code and Wheelbright.
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All righty.
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Now, I got your ticket here, and we ll get you on your way here in just a minute.
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Let me just put this in here, and we ll just get it underway.
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And thank you for coming in, Mr. Gasky.
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He goes, it is Kasky, isn t it?
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And I said, yeah.
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But I said, you probably have some names here that get you confused, because some people s names are not easy.
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He goes, well, I had a guy the other day.
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And he starts talking in this normal voice.
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And he was the nicest guy.
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But when he was in customer, he was doing this.
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And he was making sure.
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And I m sure they ve been to training and say, at the end of every sentence, it s got to go up to keep people excited and not backing out of the line, because that s not.
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It s kind of overdone customer speak language, right?
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It s like too much.
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They re like almost too nice.
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He would be a little bit more normal.
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Exactly.
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And when he started talking to me, we had a nice conversation.
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I felt like I was talking to a real guy.
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And then at the end, I said, all right, see you later.
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All righty, sir.
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We ll see you later, Miss Kesky.
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And it s like, ah.
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But I ve had that at retail places before.
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They almost talk to you like you re a child.
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Well, what can we have tonight?
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Well, let me just pat your head.
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So you re just going to do a little Wheelbright then?
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Sounds like the church lady, right?
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It does sound like a CrossFit church lady.
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On Saturday Night Live.
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I m like, well then.
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Yeah, that s something I feel that, I don t know if people teach that or not.
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Groups, I think, that do really good customer experience don t teach that.
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They teach more normal.
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Because I stay at Marriott all the time.
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Marriott s a wonderful experience.
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And I feel like they don t do that.
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It s much more genuine, right?
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It s more direct instead of that kind of like, how are you today, sir?
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Good day, sir.
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Like, no, I m not walking.
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This isn t like the Renaissance.
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I m not walking through a castle and you re a servant.
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Took the hat to you, sir.
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Exactly, right?
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Well, when waiters or waitresses in restaurants do that, are we doing okay today?
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What are we having today?
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What are we having?
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What are we having?
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Well, I m having, yeah.
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We had a guy who did a, he did a prolonged smile stare.
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So a guy that, so he comes and takes her order.
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So just the salad tonight?
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Yeah, we re just gonna have a salad.
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Okay, you smile.
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So what I m doing listeners, I m smiling a bill, but I m not saying I m looking at him.
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I m going okay.
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Is it like a you know?
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I m like everybody is everybody happy here with their meals smile.
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Yes, you have to look away.
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You have to have like okay, dude, you can t make me feel uncomfortable anyway.
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That s at betterment.com slash retirement.
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All right, topic today.
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And this kind of goes along with this a little bit, a little bit of a stretch, but we ll try it on.
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I have been always interested in the mental state of selling and how we think determines how we act, how we act determines our results and our behavior and all that.
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I ve always been interested in the beliefs that we have, you know, we assemble beliefs when we re young and these beliefs sometimes serve us very well.
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Sometimes these beliefs happen and stay consistent all the way through our lives.
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And some of these beliefs that we have that are with us for a long time don t serve us well.
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Yep.
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So I thought it would be interesting today on the show to talk about three or four beliefs, and you ve got a few written down, as do I, that maybe don t serve us so well, and maybe get inside a little bit of that belief to find out where did we actually learn that?
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What primed that belief inside of us?
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Was it a formative year kind of thing, or as a parental?
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Was it a culture?
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And some of these, we might say, you know what?
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I have no idea.
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It s just how we do things, and I don t know that it serves us well.
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No, I think this is a really good exercise to do.
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It s a great podcast topic.
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So a lot of you listen to it when you re driving, working out, things like that.
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Really good thing.
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It s a contemplative exercise, I think, to really examine things that we usually don t touch.
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And to your point, I think you were saying this within there, is some of these beliefs, when we were going to talk about where did this come from, were assembled for us.
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So yeah, we assembled them when we were little, but they came to us from a parent experience.
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And we ve never gone back and looked at them and say,
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Man, I got this from my mom or dad.
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Is that the best thing I should think?
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And often, those are the ones that are deep-rooted, hard to get rid of, and the ones that cause us the most pain.
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So this is going to be a very reflective, contemplative episode, if you will.
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Dim the lights.
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Dim the lights.
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Party s on.
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Let s go.
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Light the candles.
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A little yoga music for us.
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You want me to go first, or do you want to give it a shot?
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Can I go first?
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Yeah, I ve got four things here.
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And some of these are beliefs that you may have heard over and over, too, that are mantras, in no particular order.
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Number one, the customer is always right.
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The customer is always right.
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This is something I heard at my kid s Little League concession stand by the guy.
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We outsource the concessions to this guy.
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He s a great guy.
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He s really good at what he does.
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And he s training a young guy to work for him, this young high school kid.
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And I heard him on Sunday.
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I ordered a hamburger, and they were talking about what to do and what to order.
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And he goes, don t remember, or just remember always, the customer is always right.
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And I m like, well, I don t think that s something that s served me well in sales.
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Because as I do that, what I start to do is I become more order taker-ish, not even just with my product, but with ideas.
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So if I sit and think the customer is always right, I ll tend to err on the side of doing whatever they want, whatever they say, even if I don t think it s in their best interest.
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Even if you don t buy it, you don t believe it.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I had a situation where I was a buyer doing some advertising work.
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And someone said in a call, we re talking about the creative message, that sort of thing.
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I put some input.
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And someone said, so the one that s selling to me said, that s the one he chose.
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And it kind of rubbed me wrong.
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I m like, this should be together.
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I don t know what the hell I m doing.
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And advertising, I ve never done this before, ever.
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I wouldn t have hired you if I had.
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Right.
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And it was almost like an excuses sort of thing.
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Well, that s the one he chose.
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And that s a customer s always right.
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Well, you choose.
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OK.
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That s customer s always right.
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You know what I mean?
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So I think that s a belief.
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We don t think that ll work.
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But you chose it.
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And it s your money.
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Exactly.
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And that s what they do.
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Yes.
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And that does not serve me well long term.
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But don t you think, though, that there are contexts in which that might work?
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Like what you described there, the customer is always right.
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And you know what?
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If the hot dog s not right, throw it away.
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It s $35.
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Yes, but it s the it s the belief that carries on to our world today Yeah, yeah, and and right and the concession stand maybe it s a better probably true You re in b2b sales selling things for a hundred grand.
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You should probably look at that a little bit.
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Yeah, that s good good
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Here s one and these are in no order.
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I was gonna use this at the end, but I m gonna pull out my I like it Oh, are you really good?
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It s really Busy at all times.
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How many times have you asked someone in the last five years?
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Yeah, how s it going?
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And they say, you know what?
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I don t have too much to do.
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I m just chilling I spend three or four hours a day contemplating myself and staring at my navel and
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No, they never say that.
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What they usually say is, oh man, I m swamped.
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I m so busy.
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I got so much stuff to do.
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And I think we use that as a mantle, that whole busy at all times.
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And I don t know where that comes from.
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I think that whole idea of a busy mind, idle hands, what is that?
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It s a saying idle hands are the enemy of oh, I don t know good or I don t I don t know I just Idle hands other words if you re not busy all the time that leads to trouble.
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Ah, gotcha And I think for for kids maybe you know if they re gonna get home latchkey kids again home at three There s nobody there till six.
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Yeah, they re gonna be some trouble party time party time.
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Yeah, I
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But for adults and for those of us in the intellectual capital business, where our ideas and how we display and demonstrate our ideas are part of what makes us valuable, I think sometimes you need to take time and not be busy all the time.
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And it s the mantle that we wear, and it s hard sometimes to pull people away.
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You know, let s go work on your business plan for a few hours.
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Oh my god, I don t know, three hours.
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Can we do it in 25 minutes?
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I got a little time in between these calls.
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So I think you ve got to be really careful at that belief of busy is good.
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That s good.
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And then I take busy for, I assume busy before I go, too.
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Well, they re really busy.
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They don t have time to talk to us.
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Oh, when the other person, oh, yeah.
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You know what I mean?
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We have to make those assumptions, too.
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We ve got to be quick.
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That s true.
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Because they re too busy, right?
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That s the other side of that.
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We ve got to dump everything to them, because they re so busy, they re hard to get a hold of, all that jazz.
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Yeah, that s good.
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It s really, really interesting.
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It s always busy.
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Second side of that.
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Is mantle, so I always think of a mantle as something above a fireplace.
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Is also something you hold?
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Well, when I say where the mantle, maybe I didn t say it right.
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Maybe I should have said I put it on the mantle.
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On the mantle?
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I just wondered.
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I never thought of the word mantle either as I m examining my core beliefs.
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I think that s a figure of speech.
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That would look nice on the mantle.
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Okay, that s a belief should say that I should next time somebody picks out a never thought about that way nicknack patty black Okay, let s see my next one says mine are kind of tactical, but that s okay decisions are made by one person
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That s a belief that people carry.
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They think that decisions are made by one person.
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And I don t believe that s a belief that exists anymore.
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That s not a truth.
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But I think that if I talk to one individual or one human being, that I ll be able to get an answer and be able to.
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I think you really miss that.
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So I think a different way to look at that belief in sales, at least, is to think about decision process and perspectives of others and working my way through an organization, that sort of thing.
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I think that s a belief that gets people in trouble that s very tactical and gets them in a lot of trouble.
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Because they go looking for a person.
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You re always in the hunt for a human being.
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When you re on the hunt for a human being, you re going to find people that say, yeah, that s me, that s me.
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I think I know where that came from.
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Oh, do you where?
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Well, I think when we are young salespeople, we are groomed or we are trained to find the decision maker.
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Who s the decision maker there, Brian?
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Is it store manager?
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Is it CEO?
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Is it VP?
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Who s the, we hear that a lot.
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the decision maker, and we know in certain cases it might be, but most B2B, it s just not.
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There s influencers, and there s authority, and there s boards, and there s always those people that are hidden behind the scenes who have influence, and we never get to them.
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So I like that one a lot.
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I think that s a good one.
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Here s one that I think happens in fifth grade English or seventh grade grammar, whatever that s taught now.
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And that s the idea of corporate speak and this third person reporting thing.
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I had an interview the other day with a guy.
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I interviewed him for something else I m doing from HubSpot.
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And he was talking about thought leadership.
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I m going to see if you want to play a few of these clips.
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He s really good.
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But he talks about thought leadership.
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He said this, and I agree, that we learn how to write at a time where everything was about third person.
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It was always about reporting.
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And so now when we go to write first person and offer our opinions, whether it s in an article or just in an email, it becomes really hard for us.
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So instead, we pull out the corporate jargon.
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Smith Enterprises have been around this country for 79 years and we pride ourselves and blah blah.
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And you would never talk to another human being like that.
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So how you groom and craft your emails and your communication of any kind, I think our belief is that that corporate speak is safe and it s effective and it s not.
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Not at all.
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It makes people delete messages.
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Exactly.
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Oh, yeah.
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I ve got a couple of clients who do some of this a little too much for my own good.
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Do a little too much corporate speak in the emails.
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And I m like, oh, I m not getting any responses back.
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Well, you should probably shrink them down maybe by a seventh, eighths, right?
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Exactly.
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And speak as if you re speaking to somebody.
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To a human.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Exactly.
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OK, here s one.
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I think this is a really deep-rooted belief that requires much self-examination.
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Price and money matters more than it does.
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Price and money matters more than it does.
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And there s two sides to this.
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So the one is the price that I m selling, right?
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So I m selling a good or a service or something that has a price to it.
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The other is in my ability to make money and income and talk about that on the other side.
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And I think too often we have massively limiting beliefs around those two subjects, right?
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Because of whatever, oftentimes because of how we were raised.
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either a penny pinch or things are expensive.
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We re just taught that the world is expensive or that sort of thing.
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And a lot of us weren t taught high value and high value for high money and or that it s hard to make a lot of money.
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That we re sort of wired to be kept down in the middle.
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You know what I mean?
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Or we labeled, like one of the mantras I was taught that were wealthy people were different than me.
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Those people over there, well, they re rich.
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That s what I was taught.
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Those guys, they re rich.
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And then I also taught that the rich people weren t nice.
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There were some derogatory things said about the rich people.
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So as I get in my business career, I m like, deep down, I m like, well, I don t want to be one of those people, right?
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And yet, it s OK to be those people.
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And I ve met a lot of really wealthy people who are really, really nice.
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Most people that get really wealthy are nice.
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You have to be nice to make a lot of money, right?
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Exactly.
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And so that s a belief that I think is really important to examine.
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We oftentimes refer that as to the money script, the script that you ve got playing in your head about money.
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It s a belief that I think is flawed in almost all of us, and to some degree, that can be unmodified.
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And sometimes you can hear it when someone else speaks, and you notice it, and then when you start to examine it, you realize, well, I may have a little bit of that too.
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And I think it s really good practice as you look at these beliefs, is listen to what people say.
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If your prospect says, well, we always buy low bid, then challenge that a little bit.
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If you re not going to be low and he buys low bid, then what the heck difference does it make?
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You re not going to get the deal anyway.
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So challenge that.
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If you hear a friend say, well, I could never afford that, never afford the $1,000 for that class, well, wait a minute.
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How are you looking at this?
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Are you saying you re not going to get any financial benefit out of it?
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Well, if you re not, then you shouldn t do it.
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But sometimes you can, and by walking people through that, you also become a little more self-aware.
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That s really good.
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SPEAKER_00
Really good.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, those are good.
1
SPEAKER_00
I like these.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you have one more?
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SPEAKER_00
I do.
1
SPEAKER_01
The market is really difficult.
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It s crowded.
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SPEAKER_01
It s hard.
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It s just hard these days.
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It s tough in sales.
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It s just hard.
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And you have that belief playing, you re going to keep seeing that, right?
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Sales is fun.
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And if you do what we teach you on the podcast and you go out and enjoy it, it s not hard.
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It isn t.
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We make it hard, right?
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Absolutely.
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And I think that s a take that plays in a lot of people.
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They re just programmed like, it s getting so hyper-competitive.
1
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It s so difficult these days.
1
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Information is so many buyers.
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I m like, that s awesome.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s fun.
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I mean, now that they say, well, you know, 80% of the decisions are made before I get there, I m like, great.
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SPEAKER_01
That s way less work than I have to do now, right?
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I don t have to do as much anymore.
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I can just show up at the right time.
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I m just a closer.
1
SPEAKER_01
Google taught you everything about me, right?
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So here s the deal.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like, so embrace all this competitive stuff and don t make it hard, make it easy.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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I think those are those internal excuses.
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And that gets back to my last one, which is a lot of times I think we say should and shouldn t.
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Or I wouldn t.
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I would never do that if I were him.
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Or I really shouldn t do that.
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And I don t think you can say that, because I think that just drives you to a conclusion that may not be helpful for either you or the prospect.
1
SPEAKER_00
I shouldn t talk about money up front because that s going to shock them.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, maybe, maybe not.
1
SPEAKER_00
Maybe you should ask them, look, when do you want to talk about money?
1
SPEAKER_00
I can either do it now or I can do seven calls in.
1
SPEAKER_00
When do you want to do it?
2
SPEAKER_02
So this should, shouldn t thing, I think, enters into our game plan way too much.
2
SPEAKER_02
So if you like this idea, we can come back and talk about this a little bit more, but I like the mental state of this, the mental side, because I think our beliefs are, obviously, they re so powerful and we don t really examine them all that much.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think we should.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s the trick to this episode, is most people don t spend the time and attention examining their beliefs, where they come from, and if they help or hinder them.
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So join us next time.
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You can go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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We ve got great shows coming up.
2
SPEAKER_02
We have our mailbag.
2
SPEAKER_02
We re reinstituting our co-video mailbag.
2
SPEAKER_02
So make sure you send us in voice recording to listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_02
Also, we are planning for the summer and fall travel season now.
2
SPEAKER_02
So if you have a sales retreat coming up or any kind of a sales meeting and you want Brian or I or both to talk about coming in, we d love to do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I dare someone to hire us both.
2
SPEAKER_01
I dare you.
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SPEAKER_01
Hasn t happened yet, but I will.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I m telling you, you re going to walk away going, that was a really good idea.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m just telling you.
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SPEAKER_01
OK.
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SPEAKER_01
All right.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.