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Today, I m providing you with a treat.
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Today, we re going to be talking to my very own father, Michael Chamberlain, also known as Chamberlain Paintings on Instagram, also known as CP by close friends and family.
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It s long overdue for me to talk to my dad because I don t think I would have a podcast without my dad.
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It s very similar to what it sounds like when I m talking to my dad on the phone.
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You know, similar topics, similar
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opinions, similar ideas, similar hypotheses.
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Moral of the story is, it s long overdue.
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And he only has one kid, and it s me.
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And I am a full-time job.
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But he s also an oil painter.
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He creates YouTube videos.
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He s also a musician, singer, songwriter, musician.
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He s one of the most creative people I know.
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He s
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easily the wisest person I know.
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And you re gonna love him more than you love me and want him to take over the podcast.
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And it s gonna be fucking heartbreaking.
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Everybody s gonna be like, oh my God, Emma, give the podcast to your dad.
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And honestly, he deserves it.
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He s shaking his head off camera.
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He s like, I don t fucking want that.
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So here is a conversation with my wonderful, wonderful dad, Michael Chamberlain.
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So what do you wanna know about me?
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Oh my God.
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I know everything about you, so it s easy for me.
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I don t know.
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What?
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Yes, I do.
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I mean, I think in some ways, well, yeah, but yeah, okay.
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So, not to age you at all, but- Yeah.
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No, it s fine.
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I m actually proud of it.
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Not to totally expose you, but a lot has happened in your life thus far.
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There s so many nooks and crannies.
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I feel like I m always finding out something new about your life and various
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know, just like phases that you ve had, etc.
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What do you think is the most important for strangers to know about you?
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I would have to say like, you know, growing up in New Jersey.
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So living in New Jersey till I was 14 and moving to California, like
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in the summer after eighth grade.
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I do like that I grew up back there.
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I do think that growing up back East, it makes me appreciate the West Coast more in a way.
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Like I m so grateful for the weather and the beauty and that sort of thing.
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But anyway, but there s a lot I love about the East Coast as well.
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So I do feel like that s a big thing.
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And then I was like, I think another thing, even though I m like, I ve always been a creative person, like I never stood out creatively.
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Like I always took art art classes and I always took
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I was interested in stuff like that, but it s not like, I think, you know, even though I m a painter for a living now, I think most of my teachers, if they were told at the time, oh yeah, by the way, that kid, he s going to be a professional painter someday.
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They d be like, what?
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No.
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There was always like the art star kids in class, the kids who stood out.
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I was never one of those kids.
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So I just love to make things and do things creatively.
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But I don t think I really necessarily stood out.
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I went to San Diego State for two years, really enjoyed that, but then left early to play music, moved to San Francisco.
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And there, once I started playing music and playing in bands, then I started meeting other musicians.
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And I lived in the city.
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Sorry, I m burping.
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Yeah.
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Oh, that s all right.
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I m used to it.
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I know.
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Well, you burp more than me.
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Do I?
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Louder and louder.
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It s so natural that I don t even notice.
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If somebody asked me, I d be like, I don t think I ever burp.
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You know when somebody sneezes and they make it super loud and you re like, that just didn t need to be that loud?
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That s right.
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You do that with burps.
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You burp so fucking big.
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For theatrics?
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I must ve got that from my mom.
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Well, it all goes back to grandma then.
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That s right.
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Because I m doing it now too.
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I m burping with my chest.
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You know why it is?
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You know why?
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Because when I hang around with you, I drink sparkly water.
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That s why.
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Yes, it s your fault, because that s what I said.
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Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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But anyway, yeah, so- You moved to San Francisco to do music.
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Yep.
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Why don t you set that scene for everyone?
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I moved back into the house that I grew up in, in Foster City, but my parents were not there.
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They both lived in separate places.
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So I lived in this house.
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I was 19.
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My brother Kevin was 18 and my brother James was like, he was like 15.
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We all lived in the house by ourselves.
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And I turned the garage into a, like we went and got like insulation and whatever.
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My brother Kevin, you know, Uncle Kevin is a drummer.
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Yeah, I know my Uncle Kevin.
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Do you know Uncle Kevin?
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Yes, I know Kevin.
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Kevin was like, you know, he dropped out of school after a year.
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We were both back home at the same time.
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Frat vibes.
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Yeah.
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So I was like, do you want to play drums?
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And, or, or I started playing bass at that point and singing, and then we brought in guitar players.
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So we were kind of a trio.
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So we played for, just played in San Francisco and like recorded songs.
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And I played in a couple of other bands after that until I was about 30.
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Am I getting ahead of myself?
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No.
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Cause I, my next question was, did you want this to be your job?
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Like when you went into starting this band and you know,
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you took the risk to leave school?
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Were you like, I want to be a musician.
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I want to get signed with a label.
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Like this is what s happening.
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Was that the vibe in the beginning?
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Honestly, these thoughts were happening at college.
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I thought, what am I going to do?
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Like, I could not see myself as being, you know, sort of working in an office kind of thing.
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And not again, not that there s anything wrong with that.
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That just wasn t like, I felt like I ve always been a creative person.
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I ve always loved music.
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it would be so ideal if I could actually make a living, you know, with music.
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And at that point, the only way to do it was to be like a rock star or whatever.
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And the channels to do that, like the ways to do that at that point were pretty limited.
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And it was basically how to get a record deal.
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I mean, spoiler alert.
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You didn t get the record deal.
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No, no.
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But you know what?
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No, no, no.
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Yeah.
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It s either you didn t want a record deal.
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or nobody gave you a record deal?
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Or those are two very different sort of outcomes.
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So I m curious what happened.
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So the first thing that happened was like, that did turn me off was that somebody in the industry came and saw us and was like,
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really like these songs and like you re singing, but like.
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Would you, you know, consider adding another guitar or doing whatever?
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And I was sort of really resistant to having any kind of pressure to change in any kind of way.
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And my feeling and they were actually cool.
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I said, you know, I want to work on it with the guys that I m working with, because being that Kevin s my brother and I was like, I just we want to work on this.
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And they were like, OK, well, they were going to be patient.
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But that kind of thing where I started thinking,
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you know, having to make changes or putting pressure on us to change.
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And I felt that.
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And I started, we did, we, cause then in the practices, we started trying to conform to what it was, which I don t even remember what the, what the things they were talking about then were, but it already started to creep in and, and, and that caused like,
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you know, pressure or it changed the vibe of the band too.
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Yeah.
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And I wasn t experienced enough not to let that happen because I, you know, um, but it was all a great experience.
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But again, and then part, part of that was, and then I started playing in other bands and, and with older guys that had actually done touring and had record deals and that sort of thing.
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And hearing the stories, it didn t sound glamorous at all.
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So then, so at the age of 30, I, I pretty much.
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Stop playing in rock bands, you know or like, you know, but I still kept playing.
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Yeah for you.
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It sounds like music Before you know, you left college and you started the band with a
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my uncle Kevin and some other dudes.
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Right.
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Before that point, music was a hobby for you.
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You just enjoyed it.
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Yeah.
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And then it was like, okay, wait, maybe this is my job.
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And then it went back to just being a hobby again.
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Yeah.
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But what, you know, the other thing too is I think that when you re 19 years old and you re looking at like, I m going to have to support myself.
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I gotta, I think that there was so much, like I was so,
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I was really afraid.
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I think it s normal.
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I think about that now.
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I thought about, how am I going to make a living?
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There was no sort of business thing that attracted me.
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It s a terrifying time.
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Yeah.
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And I just thought, this is it.
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I got to go for this because this is something I love and whatever.
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And in a way,
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And that s something that as a painter now, I m going to paint for a living and I have for 10 years now.
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It s something I ve had to kind of wrestle with there as well.
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When you do something that you love creatively, but then you start doing it for a living, you have to make sure that the job portion of it doesn t take over and kill the joy.
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And that s something that it s a delicate balance to do that.
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I feel like in some ways when I had my bills paid,
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by something else.
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I was working for DHL as a courier in San Francisco and
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And even though I didn t make a ton of money, I didn t make that much, but I was frugal.
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And at least all my basics were covered.
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I just felt like I can just be creative for fun.
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And it s much more enjoyable not to have that pressure to sell it.
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And so I do think that if the money comes as a result of just you doing what you naturally do,
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then that s a gift and that s great.
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But I think with a lot of creative kids and a lot of creative people, I mean, the reason you start is not to like become famous.
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I mean, maybe with some kids, you know, but I think most of them, like most of the kids I know are most of the people now that are either young people that I paint with or older people or whatever.
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It s kind of all the same.
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They started out as a way to,
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it just calmed them down or it made them, it just was their sort of, you know, like their happy place or their, it gave them joy to make things and be creative.
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And, and I think that is where it started.
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So I think that that s something that I had to sort out as well, you know?
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And so, so for me to be creative,
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Um, it was like, I can t give that up.
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I need to have that as my, that s what makes me happy.
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And that s more important than anything.
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And so, so yeah.
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So to have another income, um, that takes some of that pressure off is really is, is, is allows you to do that.
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And so I would recommend that most people expect someone who.
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goes into art as a profession to be like a child prodigy.
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That s definitely not your situation.
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So how long had you been painting before you were like, well, maybe
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Maybe this is my job now because this is kind of my only option.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So I started painting in 2003.
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And so I remember it was even before I painted, like I was 38 years old.
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I didn t have any art experience at all, except for what I had, like, say, in school, just that I would take art classes because I liked it.
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So I started painting at the age of 38, 2003, and then I was like, okay, I m not ready.
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And so I worked for another, I think it was six years, maybe more than that.
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I think it was like 2013 when I quit my quit everything and just was painting.
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Well, you know, the underlying theme, I feel like of your career is, and this is so rare is that
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Every career move you ve made has been about your happiness and your well-being.
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You ve never made a career choice based on money, which is interesting.
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I feel like we re all so programmed to be like, we just need to make as much of it as fucking possible.
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And you are the complete opposite.
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You find your fulfillment
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so genuinely in creative endeavors and living a good life that the way that you make money is so secondary.
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And that s just such a rare point of view.
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Well, I think that, you know, I did think about that a lot.
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When I left school, I read a lot.
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Because I was not a good student.
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But a lot of the books I read, I don t know, there was a lot of philosophy in there about making life choices and things like that.
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And I think the thing that I really wanted was, I valued freedom more than... It seems like there s a trade-off.
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It s like, okay, you can have a lot of money or... Now, it s possible to have both, a lot of money and freedom.
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And obviously, having money can make you free.
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But if you re... In my case, I just felt like
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If I m frugal and careful, then.
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I m getting fulfilled by these up by the freedom and the things that I have.
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Like, like, uh, and I did a lot of stuff like you, I don t know if you remember when you re little, like I taught sailing for seven years, you know, and there was a little money there, but not much, but what an experience.
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Like I learned so much through that whole thing.
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And then, uh, you know, obviously music and painting and all these things and all the social interactions and friends that are associated with those things.
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It made it so that life was satisfying and rich in that regard.
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I know you probably remember, it was kind of a fun challenge when you were little to
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It s like, let s go on a cafe crawl.
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Okay, today s budget, three bucks.
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Yeah, we would go to San Francisco and he d be like, okay, so picture this.
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No, it was under five.
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Okay, yeah, under five.
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He d be like, we re going to go have a total day.
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Yeah.
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It s going to be totally fun.
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Right.
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But we re spending five dollars, so when we go to the cafe,
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we re gonna say, can we just grab a bottle of water?
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Or can we just have a glass of water?
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No, no, because you weren t even drinking coffee then.
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I know, so I d like get a glass of water.
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Like you d get like a black coffee and I d get like a glass of water and we d be like, yes, in this fancy cafe.
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I know, I know.
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But we had fun and it was totally great.
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And those habits still, they still kind of exist.
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You know, most everything I do doesn t cost very much.
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It is a trade off and it s a choice you have to make, you know, like.
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Yeah, I mean, it s,
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It is.
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And it s not for everyone.
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No, it s not.
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Well, I think that s what I m realizing.
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I mean, there s a dark side to it too.
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I mean, I m gonna be honest about it.
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There were several times in the process where I thought... In the process of what?
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Of this journey as being a professional painter.
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There were times where I thought,
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what am I, like where I d run out of money or come really close.
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See, my philosophy with money was always like, if I have a buffer in my account, I don t even look at my account.
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But then there s this gut feeling like, I think I need to look, you know?
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And then I d be like, oh, how bad is it?
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And one time I looked in there,
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It was bad.
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It was really bad.
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What was it?
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It was like $1.67.
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And this was not that long ago.
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No, I know.
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And I was like, what are you doing?
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What are you doing?
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I didn t sleep like the whole night.
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I was just like in a panic.
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And I thought, what am I gonna do?
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And that s when I- How old was I?
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15, 14, I don t know.
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13?
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You were literally already a YouTuber.
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It was not that long ago.
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Do you remember, actually, do you remember when you came up, there s a video where you come up, surprising my dad on his birthday.
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Child, I was broke, okay?
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I knew this.
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Did you?
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Yes.
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No, because you came up and you were like, so what I did was, I mean, maybe some of the people have seen the video, so here s what happened.
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Like the days before that, I was like, what am I going to do?
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And then I thought I ll throw my own show and I ll like make postcards, your own art show, my own art show.
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So I asked Grammy Pat, I was like, can I, can I use your house?
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Like I m going to put hors d oeuvres and I m going to send out invites and invite people.
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I ve got to sell some paintings or whatever.
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And grandpa Bob was really helpful.
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He like took a stack of the postcards, you know, he s like, Oh, I ll, I ll hand them out.
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And he did, he handed out cards and he s like,
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you know, he s so social and everything, talks to everybody.
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And I sold like $4,000 worth of paintings and I m like, I m back in the game.
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Those times where I was like against the wall, kind of like that, were so good for me.
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But arguably self-inflicted, it s fascinating because, you know, it s like you could have gone and gotten another job, you know what I mean?
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But you didn t, like you hit $1 and you said,
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Instead of saying, like, I need to go get another job that s more stable because all creative industries are completely, completely unstable and you never know what next month is going to look like.
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It s just fascinating that you threw another show instead of going and getting another job.
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Would you consider that behavior reckless or would you consider that
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intuitive.
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What is that?
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I mean, I guess it s entrepreneurial maybe, you know, because it really is like if you re going to be, and I think too, if you re going to be successful as a creative person, you have to be as creative about how you make your money as you are with your art.
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And that s where like YouTube came in.
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That s why I was interested in YouTube.
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Obviously,
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You ve been making YouTube videos since YouTube came out, but it was different because you were making music.
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Yeah, but it was it wasn t until we started talking right before you started your channel, but I was thinking the same thing.
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I was like, I want to do something with art, but I don t know what.
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I had already made a few videos where I just sat and talked to the camera about like mixing colors or something.
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I don t remember, but I I didn t really have any.
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Like I didn t know what I wanted to do with it or how that could end up being something that could actually bring in some additional money.
1
SPEAKER_00
So my intention when I started like a sort of painting related thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was more like marketing for your art.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I just didn t even know.
1
SPEAKER_00
I just thought, ah, this seems like, you know, my feeling is if you re a painter or you re a music, if you re a, if nobody knows
2
SPEAKER_02
you exist, you re selling nothing, you know?
2
SPEAKER_02
So I m like, all right, I know how to upload things.
2
SPEAKER_02
I you know, but what do I want to do?
2
SPEAKER_02
And that s when you wanted to.
2
SPEAKER_02
You were thinking about YouTube and that s why I was, you know, you.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was sort of thinking about YouTube, but you were like.
2
SPEAKER_00
Emma, you need to do you do.
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, first of all, I already had seen your some your edits, like your fun edits for that you were wearing your.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I don t know if you my little my little still at your Finsta edits.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can t explain this.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, anyway, the bottom line is I saw some of your fun edits that you would do.
2
SPEAKER_02
And you ve talked about this before that you did with your classmates and stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, I used to edit fun videos with my friends and just for myself and for my friends and my dad loved them.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, and then you did your vibe video phase.
2
SPEAKER_02
You had your vibe videos.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I can t remember.
2
SPEAKER_02
But those were good too.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, damn.
2
SPEAKER_00
I used to make my friends and I used to make these.
2
SPEAKER_00
videos that would be like slow-mo of us like vaping.
2
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
2
SPEAKER_02
But the point I wanted to make though is like some of them- They were honestly a vibe every day.
2
SPEAKER_02
No, but those were like, those were well done and those were cool.
2
SPEAKER_02
But the ones I liked, so you had two sort of creative, or you had two sort of video approaches.
2
SPEAKER_02
One was the vibe video, which was like maybe trying, like it was kind of cool, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was totally indie sleaze.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it was like trying to be cool and everything.
2
SPEAKER_01
wearing my Lululemon leggings, like trying to be like so fucking like cool.
2
SPEAKER_02
And but the thing about those is the edits on those were good.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like I could see I was like, wow, the timing was good.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
And the music.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, OK, it s a vibe.
2
SPEAKER_02
These are like my videos.
2
SPEAKER_02
But the other ones that I liked that were just were just you being a goof.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, like friends goofing around and like zooming in on the funny shit.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
And just like I just remember one where you guys were in the gymnasium at high school and like, oh, this is so great.
2
SPEAKER_02
And you had like, I think you set up.
2
SPEAKER_02
We were bowling with chairs.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but what did you set up as bowling pins?
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so basically what happened was we put a bunch of chairs.
2
SPEAKER_00
Set up as bowling pins.
2
SPEAKER_00
Set up as bowling pins.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then there was this like rolling thing that it was like a flat like rolling device that they were using to like transport something into the gymnasium.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so then we basically, we would take turns sitting on that
2
SPEAKER_00
rolling device and we push each other into the, it was like bowling.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
This is what happens when you go to Catholic all girls school and you can t flirt with boys.
2
SPEAKER_00
You have to fucking play human bowling cause you re so bored.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I remember, I remember watching it and I was like, yeah, somebody, you guys are laughing and somebody would get on, you know, it s in a gymnasium so it s got that nice like
2
SPEAKER_02
slick floor or that smooth floor.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
One of you would get in there and the others would just push with all your might just, and the thing would just crash into the chairs.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, this is insane.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, no.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like hilarious.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s Catholic all girls school.
2
SPEAKER_00
So yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
So I remember like watching those and I just thought there was other, yeah, other videos you did too.
2
SPEAKER_02
But in any case, to get back to it, like I was like, Oh, these are so, so I thought, you know, when you were expressing interest about doing YouTube or whatever, I thought,
2
SPEAKER_02
Go for it.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like for sure.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then at the same time, cause I remember I was thinking, yeah, I ve been thinking I want to do something art related on YouTube.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then that s when we started saying, I was like, send me some videos that you like and I ll do the same.
2
SPEAKER_02
And that was when I found like discovered vlogging.
2
SPEAKER_02
I hadn t even looked at watching.
2
SPEAKER_02
I wasn t like, I would always go and watch music, but then I started seeing that people were like vlogging.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I thought, Oh, what if I did something like.
2
SPEAKER_02
Vlog related about painting where you go out and you sort of record the experience of painting on location because I m doing it already Sort of incorporate that and so then that s that became my YouTube thing.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, we both kind of simultaneously became youtubers, you know So the thing that I think is really interesting is that So you were 17 when you moved to LA?
2
SPEAKER_02
right?
2
SPEAKER_02
And I knew people who are musicians who moved to LA to me, the thought of moving to LA by myself.
2
SPEAKER_02
Now, obviously just so that we don t, that your mom and I don t seem like negligent parents or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_02
We were going to be like, all right, we ll take turns being down there to make sure that you re okay.
2
SPEAKER_02
I remember you called me and you said, I m moving to LA and you can t say no.
2
SPEAKER_02
Right.
2
SPEAKER_02
But my question is,
2
SPEAKER_02
Did you have any fear about moving to LA?
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it s like, it s six hours away at best.
2
SPEAKER_00
In the car.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s like almost 400 miles.
2
SPEAKER_00
From where I grew up.
2
SPEAKER_02
From the Bay Area, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
So it s quite a ways.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it was a combination of a few things.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think number one, I was aloof to, you know, moving to this big city as a 17 year old.
2
SPEAKER_00
what the dangers of that even are, I think I was aloof to it.
2
SPEAKER_00
But then I do think that I was running on adrenaline and it s like, wait, hold on.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ve just spent the last year of my life not in school.
2
SPEAKER_00
All my peers are in school.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ve been alone.
2
SPEAKER_00
you know, not socializing with kids my age very much.
2
SPEAKER_00
The only time I get to is when I m interacting with my peers who are also, you know, in this industry.
2
SPEAKER_00
I felt like, wait a minute, this is my ticket to being a social being again.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, like I want to be around people.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was starting to get recognized by fellow YouTubers at the time.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was like,
2
SPEAKER_00
that was so exhilarating to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, all these people I d been watching on YouTube forever are now like, we watch you on YouTube.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, that is, I can t handle that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have to move now.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, I don t care about being famous, but the thing that really put the fire under my ass to succeed at it was to be friends with these people that I watched.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, it s almost like that motivated me more than anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I wasn t,
2
SPEAKER_00
like super fangirl about it, but it was more like, oh, I genuinely think that these would be good friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we also have a common hobby in a way.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, how...
2
SPEAKER_00
special would it be to have friends who have the same passion as I do for creating a video?
2
SPEAKER_02
That s so cool to me.
2
SPEAKER_02
I wanted that so bad.
2
SPEAKER_02
That is the one thing.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think when you called me, you were expecting me to push back on that.
2
SPEAKER_02
I thought it was great.
2
SPEAKER_02
I thought you need to go because of that very reason that you were doing this thing, you had committed to it, and there s no one in the Bay Area that was doing that.
2
SPEAKER_02
Or maybe they were, but there were other
2
SPEAKER_02
You know, people down here that were doing that sort of thing.
2
SPEAKER_02
So to me is like, yes, go for it.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, for sure.
2
SPEAKER_02
And but when I thought about it, it still impressed me like, wow, she s like 17 and she s just going for it.
2
SPEAKER_02
But and you re right.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, I think I thought about this, too, when I when I first came down to visit.
2
SPEAKER_02
You re not somebody who s.
2
SPEAKER_02
moving to LA to get into the industry.
2
SPEAKER_02
You were already in it.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it was almost like overdue.
2
SPEAKER_02
Do you know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_02
It was like overdue that you got down here where other people were doing things.
2
SPEAKER_02
And cause immediately you hit the ground running when you came down here.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, it was automatic.
2
SPEAKER_00
I did have things to do.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, it was like somewhat easy for me to make friends because at that point I was, I was peers with these kids.
2
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t like,
2
SPEAKER_02
What was clear to me, because I came, what did I come down, I came down with you, like your mom and I would take turns, but even before you moved down, we came down with you.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I remember you were just, you had constant things going on.
2
SPEAKER_02
It was nonstop.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I don t even think you expected that, that first time.
2
SPEAKER_00
There was a lot, there was almost too much going on.
2
SPEAKER_00
I remember losing focus easily.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like it was like, you know,
2
SPEAKER_00
There were so many kids that were like, you need to come out and do this with us.
2
SPEAKER_00
You need to come out and do this with us.
2
SPEAKER_00
You need to come out and do this with us.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it became hard to balance that social life with like, wait a minute, I still have to do what I came here to do though.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I will say, I got lucky that, yeah, I think I lost my footing quite a few times throughout the journey, but I never lost my footing to a point where it was,
2
SPEAKER_00
Irreversible, it was unfixable, you know?
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think naturally, when you come and do your career when your brain is not fully developed.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like you re just due to, my brain still isn t probably fully developed.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, I mean, that s what I was saying.
2
SPEAKER_02
For fuck s sake.
2
SPEAKER_02
You have to make, part of any, I mean, that s part of the journey is like making mistakes and learning what works, you know?
2
SPEAKER_02
As long as it s not dangerous, you know?
2
SPEAKER_02
I know, I really, I stayed out of danger.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I just think it still took courage to come down here, you know?
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_02
See, for me, it was like.
2
SPEAKER_02
It was just like.
2
SPEAKER_02
It was like, holy shit.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and the other thing I was gonna say too is, this is another thing.
2
SPEAKER_02
that I observe is that and you can tell me your take on this.
2
SPEAKER_02
But when it came to all of this, it wasn t.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like I never felt like money and fame was something you were, that was not the point of you with YouTube.
3
SPEAKER_00
YouTube for you was almost like, and correct me if I m wrong, but you saw videos or you saw things where you re like, that s cool.
3
SPEAKER_00
I want to do that.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s always been hard for me to figure out what I was even trying to do with YouTube.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was all so intuitive.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was like, I m just,
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, I m obsessed with doing this, but I don t know why.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like with YouTube, it s not obviously creative.
3
SPEAKER_01
Does that make sense?
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not obviously creative.
3
SPEAKER_01
I did not understand, like, what, why do I, like, why does this creatively fulfill me?
3
SPEAKER_01
And up until recently, I was kind of unsure.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, why?
3
SPEAKER_01
is making a YouTube video a creative thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I, it totally makes sense to me now.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think number one, it s the art of entertainment, like creating something that will entertain somebody for a period of time.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s number one.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think number two, it s sort of the art of creating something so seamless
3
SPEAKER_01
that when you re watching it, you re there.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s the editing of it all.
3
SPEAKER_00
Can I say something?
3
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
See, here s the thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
And this is beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_00
I almost think
3
SPEAKER_00
for whatever reason, this whole thing is so intuitive to you.
3
SPEAKER_00
You can t even explain it, but I can t, I, I, I have thought about this a lot.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so what you re trying to articulate is I think, here s my thought.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you can tell me if I m right with any kind of art.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I don t care if it s music or painting or making a video or making a movie or whatever, what you re trying to do is create an alternate
3
SPEAKER_00
world or reality for a person to disappear into.
3
SPEAKER_00
And if the mechanics of that are obvious, then it breaks the spell and you re out.
3
SPEAKER_00
So if you re like listening to a song and all of a sudden you hear like the beat is like completely off or the voice goes off or this or that, it can be a lyric, anything to break the spell, you re out of that, that world.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so what you naturally had in a video is the same thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re trying to create something where
3
SPEAKER_00
the person disappears into that world.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s real, but it s seen through your eyes.
3
SPEAKER_00
The music you create, down to a tenth of a second of an edit or a cut makes a difference on how the flow and the feel.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s something I noticed very early on.
3
SPEAKER_00
you know, because it s musical in a way.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I feel like that ability to where you can get lost in your edits and you go for that ride and your edits have changed as you ve changed the way you present and you know how you create your videos, but it s all still you.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it seems to be very natural.
3
SPEAKER_00
But the key thing I think with all good art is it takes you disappear into it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you don t see it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so that s why I think a lot of times the good stuff, it almost seems like it just exists.
3
SPEAKER_01
Totally.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
I could say like people might say, oh, like Emma, you know, this is I ve seen your I ve seen your timelines.
3
SPEAKER_00
OK.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I ve seen you work and and.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re a gifted editor, period.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, and so like and you keep getting better, you know, and so
3
SPEAKER_01
I m just going to start bringing guests on to gas me up.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s what hey, I mean, that s what dads are for.
3
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
3
SPEAKER_00
But no, the reality is that s the truth.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I feel like it s clear when you re talking about these things that you re it is such an instinct for you.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think the key thing is, is that that that is so important because.
3
SPEAKER_00
You almost have to get out of your own way when you re creating effectively.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
So like the, the flow state where you are creating is when you re in that moment where you re entertaining yourself almost.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it starts there.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s gotta be in that.
3
SPEAKER_00
The best stuff comes when you re like, you re in that state where you re creating something and you re not thinking necessarily about, Oh, how s anybody going to watch?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, how s this going to come off or whatever?
3
SPEAKER_00
Then you re, that s it.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re going to lose the, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re going to lose the flow.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think that s why you really have to enjoy it doing it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think this industry is fascinating to me because, you know, and this is not to insult anyone at all, but I think a lot of people want to be, they want the end result, which is being famous.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then they choose a creative outlet that they re like, well, this, this one maybe is my favorite.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I m going to try to do this.
3
SPEAKER_01
It, the unfortunate thing about it is that I really don t think it can be forced.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I, I went, Oh, go on.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, no, I mean, I was going to say, cause that s, that s such a good point.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the point I want to make about that is you re right.
3
SPEAKER_00
There are a couple options.
3
SPEAKER_00
What I ve noticed is there s the flow state where something comes from something authentic and it has vulnerability.
3
SPEAKER_00
It has uniqueness that is as unique as you are as a person when you re channeling that part.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I ve noticed with any kind of art, music, et cetera, there is another way that s easier psychologically.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, I ll just say this style and technique.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you like, so you can, there are so many tools we have now and even, I mean you can rely on,
3
SPEAKER_00
Fluff.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like all style, no substance.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that s really what, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly, and I m almost the other way, like the stuff I like is almost the opposite, where the substance is good and the style and the other stuff is played way down.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, that s kind of why, when it comes to like everything I do, I would say across the board, I am really diehard about
3
SPEAKER_01
using the bare minimum equipment, having like the lowest quality, this, well, the setup that we re using right now for the podcast is gorgeous and nice, but when I m at home, it s much more basic, but it s not too fancy.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think there s two reasons for that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Number one, because it s just easier.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can waste so much time
3
SPEAKER_01
making sure your super fancy camera is all charged up and in focus.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like, no, fuck that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, let s just use the easiest equipment possible so that we can just go.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, let s just go.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s number one.
3
SPEAKER_01
So it s just like for ease.
3
SPEAKER_01
Cause then you can be much more spontaneous and whatever.
3
SPEAKER_01
But then I also think, you know, being able to make something that I, that is good and effective in my eyes with,
3
SPEAKER_01
non-fancy equipment, it forces me to create the substance.
3
SPEAKER_01
Does that make sense?
3
SPEAKER_01
I m not getting lost in the sauce trying to make it look super crisp, super perfect, super whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because the reality is, nobody cares.
3
SPEAKER_01
It makes no difference.
3
SPEAKER_00
It really doesn t.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s what s fascinating.
3
SPEAKER_00
I used to say, okay, and I ve been thinking about that a lot lately.
3
SPEAKER_00
I like the idea of writing a song and recording it on my phone.
3
SPEAKER_00
If it doesn t work like that, then it s not working.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so that s so true because I said, you know, I was like, if you put Paul McCartney or Elvis Presley in front of your phone and they sang a song or anyone, if it s good, it s good.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so I think that one of the challenges we have now is like technologically speaking, we have so much.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so I even do this with painting.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve cut down my colors to like minimum colors.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ll paint a painting with one brush only.
3
SPEAKER_00
One of the things that can happen to us nowadays is that, like you say, we can get lost in the sauce or we can get distracted by things that we may think are important or necessary and they re not.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I had another question I wanted to ask you regarding the pressure to stay in that state or the flow creative state where you re making something for yourself.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it does happen easily, like say in a video, like making something when you have so many people, you know, that so many people are going to watch that video.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so trying to get into a place where that doesn t get into your head while you re making videos.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I know, obviously, we ve talked about this and there s times where it does or it s hard to.
3
SPEAKER_00
But what have you found that s been helpful to to to maintain that flow state in creating, even though there s you know that you have such a big audience?
3
SPEAKER_01
I feel like a level of like detachment.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, almost a level of denial.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think I ve tricked myself into
3
SPEAKER_01
kind of forgetting that part.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like I ve, unintentionally, so I can t really explain how I did it, but when I m making the video, I am sort of making it for me.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s so much work to make the video.
4
SPEAKER_01
Which sounds ridiculous, I m so embarrassed to say that.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s not, it s work if you re not doing it.
4
SPEAKER_00
If you re doing it for yourself, it s not work.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, no, no, let me actually, let me elaborate.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s just so time consuming, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Listen, there s many more time consuming things on this planet, but you know, my videos take 20 hours to edit, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
You won t make it through.
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SPEAKER_01
You won t finish editing unless you re doing it for you.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because it s a very tedious project.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like I can t even finish it if I m not doing it for me.
4
SPEAKER_01
that explains the, I don t know, probably 50 videos that have never gone out because it s just like, I couldn t, I was in my, I wasn t in flow with it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I can t finish it if I don t get into that.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I can only get into the flow if I m making it for me.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, I m like, this is for me.
4
SPEAKER_01
I am excited.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m like so excited for the end result that I, you know, I need to keep going, whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that seems like that s what brought you back.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know,
4
SPEAKER_00
too recently was that just needing to return to that creative outlet that was made you happy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, I think the reason why I was off of it for so long was not because like editing the video wasn t getting me into flow state, because I definitely think I was actually able to get there.
4
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t the editing that was a problem for a long time, but rather.
4
SPEAKER_01
I didn t want to be on camera.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so that was the challenge.
4
SPEAKER_01
If I were to have been given a video of somebody else to edit, and I was excited about that video, I would have been able to get into the flow state and be excited about it.
4
SPEAKER_01
It was like, I don t wanna be on camera.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t wanna look at myself.
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SPEAKER_01
I don t wanna talk on camera.
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SPEAKER_01
And those are two separate things.
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SPEAKER_01
That s what s interesting about it.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like there are two,
4
SPEAKER_01
key variables when it comes to making a video.
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SPEAKER_01
It s like, number one, I need to be in a space where my energy is just good.
4
SPEAKER_01
My energy just needs to be good.
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SPEAKER_01
And I need to have things that I want to say.
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SPEAKER_01
And I need to be an energy that somebody wants to be around.
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SPEAKER_01
But then also, I need to be making a video that
4
SPEAKER_01
I m excited to edit.
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SPEAKER_01
So it s those two variables.
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SPEAKER_01
And I found that now I m excited about making videos because it has nothing to do with money.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, I m not doing brand deals anymore on my YouTube.
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SPEAKER_01
My YouTube is now my playground completely.
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SPEAKER_01
I ve removed all industry from it completely.
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SPEAKER_01
You know, there are moments when it s like,
4
SPEAKER_01
I work with Levi s, I m wearing a pair of Levi s in this video anyway, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Let s shove it, let s throw it in.
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SPEAKER_01
But it s like, the industry is completely removed from it for me.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that s an absolute privilege.
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SPEAKER_01
I m so grateful that I m able to do that, you know, from a financial standpoint now where, you know, I don t have to make money from YouTube anymore.
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SPEAKER_01
So now, that just can be fun.
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SPEAKER_01
It s just, it s back to being my little playground.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I really think that s what s so wild about it is it s like, I, YouTube became my job.
4
SPEAKER_01
Inevitably that,
4
SPEAKER_01
that challenged my relationship with YouTube.
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SPEAKER_01
And I struggled with it up until now, where it s just fun now.
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SPEAKER_01
Does that make sense?
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SPEAKER_01
I don t think I ever was, I don t know if I can ever have that as a job and still enjoy it as a hobby.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like I don t, but also did you feel, did you feel like this is something that I felt when I was younger, that if I let go, like any of the creative things that I was doing, if I, I had to hold onto them, if like, if I took a break, I felt like I d lose it.
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SPEAKER_00
So I was always nervous during breaks.
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SPEAKER_00
And what I, what I ve found as I ve gotten older is that breaks are essential because if you re not growing as a human being, your art isn t going to grow.
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SPEAKER_01
You have nothing to pull from.
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SPEAKER_00
No.
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SPEAKER_00
So you go like, so I find that the best way creatively for me is to do a push when I m feeling it, you know, when I m like, all right, it s I m ready.
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SPEAKER_00
Do a big push and then take a break and do, you know, and not feel bad about it and not feel, um,
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SPEAKER_00
And I know when I hit that wall, when I m like, okay, I m done, I can t, it s not, it starts taking a toll on me emotionally or whatever, or I ve been, and I just feel like, okay, I m ready.
4
SPEAKER_00
But the thing that in the past is I felt like I couldn t let it go.
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SPEAKER_00
Like if I did, if I, if I stopped, then I d actually lose what I had.
4
SPEAKER_00
And the reality is every time, every time I came back after a break,
4
SPEAKER_00
even with something like painting, I, there was times where I just, for whatever reason, I was working on music and I didn t paint for two months and I come back and I ve grown and doing other things and engaging in other things.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s ridiculous, but all of those have helped.
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SPEAKER_00
You know, when I first started surfing, I didn t do anything else for like months, no music, no.
4
SPEAKER_00
And, and even that,
4
SPEAKER_00
changed my approach to music and art.
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SPEAKER_00
It s, it s all of it s interlinked.
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SPEAKER_00
If you re, if you re just doing your art over and you re going to run out, like you need life, you need it life to bring into what you do.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I, but the point is, is that living life gives you, it fuels your creativity.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, that s why I think, you know, the ultimate goal when you re in a creative industry at all is like,
4
SPEAKER_01
get to a point, you know, where, where you can set things up from the get go to a point where you have space, you need to give yourself space.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that was the thing that was so challenging about, well, I mean, I I ve been on some sort of weekly calendar since I started, whether it was with YouTube or it s with podcasts, you know, and,
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s definitely, that s, it s challenging.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think now I m at a point where I know how to create space so that I can go live, you know, but it can be really easy to sort of just get on a hamster wheel and not be able to get off.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then, you know, but you end up running yourself into the ground and you ve absolutely, but you also stunt your growth.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And also the other thing I was going to say is in, during those breaks where you are getting that fulfillment, that s also like the way I look at it, that s input mode right there.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s when I m listening to tons of music and.
4
SPEAKER_00
Or looking at a bunch of art and it s like priming the pump and also living, you know, whatever, whatever I m doing, whether it s hanging with friends or whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, for me, I kind of ping pong between these different things, but yeah, those breaks away from it are like input mode.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that that s really my input mode is so different.
4
SPEAKER_00
Is it?
4
SPEAKER_01
I feel like my input mode is like.
4
SPEAKER_01
OK, a few things.
4
SPEAKER_01
Number one, being very social.
4
SPEAKER_01
Who s dating who?
4
SPEAKER_01
Who s fighting with who?
4
SPEAKER_01
Who s going out tonight?
4
SPEAKER_01
Like being a normal 22-year-old who just is fucking in this drama and in the thick of it, it s like that gives me so much to talk about.
4
SPEAKER_01
That gives me so much to talk about.
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SPEAKER_01
That gives me,
4
SPEAKER_01
But I mean, it s also just fulfilling, weirdly enough.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t know, but that s sort of my info about it.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think you touched on another really key thing that for me, for a while, was I kind of neglected, and now it s the most important thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
Being social?
4
SPEAKER_00
People.
4
SPEAKER_00
people, whether it s your family or whatever, but friends, having good friends is, I couldn t even, and that s something I learned when I first started painting full-time, I was just by myself.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I kind of, when I was working as a courier, I saw a ton of people.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then when I was, you know, when I was doing construction, same, there s this constant interaction and that was almost enough for me.
4
SPEAKER_00
But then when I went to full-time painting,
4
SPEAKER_00
It was not good, because I didn t have any interaction.
4
SPEAKER_00
So it took several years, but now I realize people is the most important thing, period.
4
SPEAKER_01
I agree.
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SPEAKER_01
I completely agree.
4
100%.
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SPEAKER_00
Having good relationships with friends who are, and you got to choose your friends carefully, because if you re a creative person.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, not even just your friends.
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SPEAKER_01
It s fucking everyone.
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SPEAKER_01
It s your friends.
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SPEAKER_00
It s who you work with.
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SPEAKER_01
It s who you date.
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SPEAKER_01
It s all of it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
You don t want to be around.
4
SPEAKER_00
I want to be around people that are excited.
5
SPEAKER_01
excited about just the reason you came here to LA.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you re around other people that
5
SPEAKER_01
let s go for it, let s do this or whatever.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s what you want to be around.
5
SPEAKER_01
And sadly, there are people that are not in that space, you know, that, that, and you have to be careful around them.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, you know, you know that I ve like, okay, you can t get into any sort of flow state when you re around somebody who s just shutting down that energy, like getting into any sort of creative flow state requires this sort of, this sort of free flowing sense of,
5
SPEAKER_00
your personality out into the outside world.
5
SPEAKER_00
You need to just be able to let yourself be.
5
SPEAKER_00
And when somebody s around you and they just dull that, and I mean, you ve seen this happen to me throughout my career where there s a bad apple and I can t fucking do anything.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m out of a job.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s that bad.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, what I would say, one thing I have noticed that I ve actually learned from you this way is that, and again, you run on instinct, but if you sense that, they re out.
5
SPEAKER_01
I have been out, whereas me, I would be more polite and I would let that mess me up, you know?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but you know I ve let it mess me up.
5
SPEAKER_01
No, I know, but you are better about that person.
5
SPEAKER_01
No.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so I ve gotten way better about that.
5
SPEAKER_01
And part of it is just that I have, for whatever reason, I think when you re putting out a positive
5
SPEAKER_01
you know, thing or whatever.
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SPEAKER_01
If your vibe is positive, you start, you just attract other people like that as well.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so I can easily make that choice.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m just not going to hang out with somebody who has that sort of oppressive, you know, cause it is so detrimental to, if you re a person who,
5
SPEAKER_01
A big part of their joy is the excitement about making things and creating things.
5
SPEAKER_01
You have to be careful not to be around somebody who s going to dampen that because it s going to bum you out.
5
SPEAKER_01
It goes for even people who aren t creative.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oftentimes, though, the trick is that sometimes it s just a feeling.
5
SPEAKER_01
I just don t feel good
5
SPEAKER_01
After I am around this person or something and then you and then you and a lot of times you ll You ll even question yourself and you ll be like, is it me or whatever?
5
SPEAKER_01
And then that s why it s helpful to have a friend who s like, no, it s not you You know, that s what you do for me.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s like it s so it s a tricky thing because it if you re brought down and
5
SPEAKER_01
If you re criticized, you might buy into that mindset.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was like, no, that is not reality.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s their reality.
5
SPEAKER_01
That is not what we re after.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, it is fascinating how you start to see.
5
SPEAKER_00
reality through like I realized this more recently how The people that you re around you see things through their lens.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s like when you re alone That is when you re seeing things truly through your own lens.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s no bias There s no you like something because you like something when I listen to a song alone.
5
SPEAKER_00
I
5
SPEAKER_00
It s a completely different experience to listening to a song with somebody else.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like today I showed you a song and I was like, this shit is so fucking good and I showed it to you and I was like, oh my God, wait, this is actually kind of bad.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like I didn t, because I started to listen to it through your, I was listening to it through your ear.
5
SPEAKER_01
I felt- Or no, you were listening through what you thought maybe my ear would be.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sure, sure, but- Yeah, but that s the thing, is because, and I, same thing, same thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
But that s why you have to be around people though.
5
SPEAKER_01
When you share something with somebody, you re like, oh wait, I know, because you re second guessing, that s right.
5
SPEAKER_00
But more than that, it s also that being around somebody else, you re seeing things through their lens, and maybe some people don t do that, like that might just be a personal thing to me, or a personality trait I have, but like when I m with somebody, I am then seeing the world through their eyes,
5
SPEAKER_00
for the duration of the time that we re together.
5
SPEAKER_00
So, like, people that you re really close to have to have a really solid lens that they re viewing the world through.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because if not, then you d start taking their lens with you.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then, you know, if they re... If they see things in a way that is shitty, negative, bad, then that starts to become your default.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s gonna drag you down for sure.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think you re exactly right.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that s something that, like I said, I ve become more aware of.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think for you it s like instinct.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think it s easier for me because at the end of the day, I m happiest when my core people are good, which is, that s excluding,
5
SPEAKER_00
those who come and go, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, you and my mom and like, that s the core, you know?
5
SPEAKER_00
But even like, if me and you and my mom and the few other little core people are there, and I m in a really exciting, inspired, motivated place career-wise,
5
SPEAKER_00
All is good.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so if there s a bad apple, guess what happens?
5
SPEAKER_00
Now, I can t get work done, which literally, you know this?
5
SPEAKER_00
I fucking freak out.
5
SPEAKER_00
I fucking freak out.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m like, why is it not going?
5
SPEAKER_00
Why do I have nothing to talk about?
5
SPEAKER_00
Why do I have nothing?
5
SPEAKER_00
I cannot make anything.
5
SPEAKER_00
I can t say anything.
5
SPEAKER_00
I can t do anything.
5
SPEAKER_00
Freak out.
5
SPEAKER_00
Crisis mode.
5
SPEAKER_00
Everyone batting down the hatches.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s like a nightmare.
5
SPEAKER_00
But then as a result of that, now I m bringing that terrible energy to the core people.
5
SPEAKER_00
You and my mom and Ali and all the core people suffer now because I m a mess.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so then my relationship with you suffers.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then now I have nothing.
5
SPEAKER_00
My relationship is suffering with my core people because I m a mess.
5
SPEAKER_00
my work is suffering, all because of that one bad apple.
5
SPEAKER_01
Isn t it interesting how that one little ripple can have this effect?
5
SPEAKER_01
I haven t even thought of it in that terms.
5
SPEAKER_01
I just think
5
SPEAKER_00
But that s why it s so easy for me to be like, holy shit.
5
SPEAKER_00
But for me, it s life or death because I need those foundational pieces of my life to be intact.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so if that, I m so hyper aware of, but see, there s been moments in my past where there s been a bad apple and I know that this apple is bad, but I let it fucking go for too long because I m like, I don t want to let go of this person.
5
SPEAKER_00
And my God, have we paid the price for that.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s why it s so important.
5
SPEAKER_00
In every type of relationship, across the board, platonic, romantic, business, it doesn t matter, all relationships kind of need to be taken slow.
5
SPEAKER_00
You have to take every type of relationship slow, and it s so hard to do that, because in every type of relationship, again, you can be like, oh my God,
5
SPEAKER_00
Like we just click and you can start skipping steps.
5
SPEAKER_00
This happens in friendships too.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I know that most people are probably thinking of romantic relationships, but I m actually thinking about friendships as well.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like you meet a, you know, a fun person at
5
SPEAKER_00
a bar and you re like, oh my God, we just click.
5
SPEAKER_00
We re like bestie vibes, whatever.
5
SPEAKER_00
And you re like, okay, we re going to like go on a trip together.
5
SPEAKER_00
We re going to go on a girl s trip.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, no, you don t know that person well enough.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s, and the problem with that is that s when you get yourself into a relationship where you find out later that they re so, so bad for you, but you got, you, you skipped steps and now you re so far ahead that you can t then pull back and create that distance that s safe.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s too late.
5
SPEAKER_01
That sounds like almost something like you re going into a friendship or a relationship with sort of a set of preconceived ideas of who the person is as opposed to letting it evolve naturally in a way where you re seeing them really for who they are, you know?
5
SPEAKER_01
So that it is hard because I think, yeah, I think it s, uh,
5
SPEAKER_01
That s tough to do.
5
SPEAKER_01
I do think, especially in romantic relationships, people start creating all kinds of scenarios about who that person is.
5
SPEAKER_01
Nobody s perfect.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
So that s what I m saying.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, that s like the three month thing is just, you know, just be friends with somebody for like three months.
5
SPEAKER_01
Most of them might make three weeks and you re like, Oh God, thank God I dodged that.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then, but some, if you re getting up to three months and you re still like, wow, this person is really cool, you know, then you re on to something.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
So then push it another three months.
5
SPEAKER_00
My dad s a big fan of dying.
5
SPEAKER_00
What s the rush?
5
SPEAKER_01
What is the freaking rush?
5
SPEAKER_01
I honestly feel like that s the magic time.
5
SPEAKER_00
It is the most fun.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s so wonderful.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s so cool.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think there is no rush in it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Allow somebody to be who they are and it ll
6
SPEAKER_00
It ll come out.
6
SPEAKER_00
It will come out, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
And it s kind of interesting to see how soon that comes out.
6
SPEAKER_00
How long can they keep up the charade?
6
SPEAKER_01
You know what s so crazy is I m just thinking about- And we all do it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh, totally.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I m just thinking about all the times in my life when I ve come to you and been like, I am obsessed with a guy.
6
SPEAKER_01
You ve seen that?
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, moral of the story is I m like mortified thinking about through your lens how often I m like, no, wait a minute, this is the one.
6
SPEAKER_01
No, wait, hold on, this one.
6
SPEAKER_01
Wait a minute, back it up, that one, out, this one, in.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, it s like- Yeah, but I don t know, because I don t see it that way.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, I don t look and go, oh, she s so cringe.
6
SPEAKER_00
But if I did that, oh my God.
6
SPEAKER_00
God, how did I raise such a cringy daughter?
6
SPEAKER_00
She is the worst.
6
SPEAKER_00
But no, it s more just like, it s more, that s just normal.
6
SPEAKER_00
Especially when you re younger, it s really normal.
6
SPEAKER_00
It comes with experience where you re like, okay, I kind of rushed into that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Or the girl who cried wolf.
6
SPEAKER_01
I feel like the girl who cried wolf with like, it s also like an anxious thing too.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like when you re anxious, you re like,
6
SPEAKER_01
I need to move fast to secure this thing, whatever that is.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think what the rush comes from a lot of times, or a lot of times the rush is, I have a void in me and this is going to solve my problem.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
6
SPEAKER_00
And so you re like, and then that s when the wheels start spinning and you re, you know, creating these, this illusion.
6
SPEAKER_00
If you re in a state of, of kind of satisfaction and happiness, I think then, then you can look at almost everything around you with, with no expectations.
6
SPEAKER_00
And you see, you see things more clearly and you make better decisions.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I think the moral of that story is.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, if you re, if you find a way to be fulfilled and happy personally,
6
SPEAKER_00
then you re not going to be looking for, whether it s business opportunities or this or a relationship or this or that, to solve that problem.
6
SPEAKER_00
And you end up rushing in and making bad decisions.
6
SPEAKER_01
It is the ultimate challenge in life to reach that state.
6
SPEAKER_00
For sure.
6
SPEAKER_01
And to be honest, you re one of the only people I ve ever met in my entire life who have successfully done that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but I mean, it s just
6
SPEAKER_00
If it s not happening by this age, I mean, it s a lot of years of doing exactly that and learning from the process, you know, of having that experience and saying, oh, you know, I need to slow down and just understand that a lot of the decisions I made were to fill some kind of void.
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, that s what I m saying.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t think you do anything to fill voids anymore.
6
SPEAKER_00
And think part of that is, you know, part of it is, is the lack of expectation of anything anymore.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I think part of that comes with being a dad.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like that was huge.
6
SPEAKER_00
So like having a child, and I do feel honestly like I don t need to do anything else, you know?
6
SPEAKER_01
I take up a lot of your time calling you scream crying about something.
6
SPEAKER_00
Not so much lately.
6
SPEAKER_01
I know, I m kind of good right now.
6
SPEAKER_01
When do you think it got really good recently?
6
SPEAKER_01
I would say... Because it was pretty dark for a minute for me.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but I would say overall, I d say overall since the beginning of this whole adventure or whatever,
6
SPEAKER_01
Wait, what whole journey?
6
SPEAKER_01
Like my career?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like I think, well, no, no, but what I m, well, I know, I know, but what I m saying is, is that I ve noticed this gradual progression where it s gotten better and better and better, but I d say like where, where it s been really good.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_00
The last few months have been fire.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Last, but, but also I d say like the last, even the last,
6
SPEAKER_00
you know, the last couple of years have been better.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then now it s, it just continuing to get better and better is what I m seeing.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, there was a time there was like hard, it was tough, you know, it was difficult.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right.
6
SPEAKER_00
Cause, and, but now like you re sobbing because it was what?
6
SPEAKER_00
I didn t, you know, part of it was learning about this whole situation.
6
SPEAKER_00
And like I was about to say, what I was going to say is where do you get the information?
6
SPEAKER_00
How do you do this?
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SPEAKER_00
And I realized you have to just trust your heart through this whole process.
6
SPEAKER_00
And, and then talking to your mom and same thing, I felt like in a way you re just sort of alone in this.
6
SPEAKER_00
but I feel like both of us have kind of gotten to, all of us, all three of us, have sort of come back to just being normal people.
6
SPEAKER_00
It just feels just very normal now.
6
SPEAKER_01
I know, I feel like I m not calling you as much with- No, it s more to share stuff.
6
SPEAKER_01
Can I be honest?
6
SPEAKER_01
I actually think I ve really figured out how to self-soothe.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
have figured out how I can, I don t know, all of the unfortunate feelings are now familiar.
6
SPEAKER_01
And so I can, I know what they feel like, I know that they re gonna go away.
6
SPEAKER_01
I also have various little mantras that I have stored in the back of my head for when a thought comes up.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like when I m getting really anxious about
6
SPEAKER_01
you know, like how I feel overexposed and stuff, for example, like I feel so exposed.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I think the hardest thing for me is like just being, it s just that I think this job, you know, exacerbates various mental health issues I already have.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like being an anxious and depressed person, I think it just, it can,
6
SPEAKER_01
Mainly with anxiety for me though, it just really, it really sends me.
6
SPEAKER_01
And that s, but again, those things I m figuring out how to.
6
SPEAKER_00
But I think we re all challenged by those things, myself included.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t think anybody is not, there s a whole new set of challenges that we have today.
6
SPEAKER_00
So even if you re not in the industry.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, totally.
6
SPEAKER_00
You re still wrestling with this digital reality that we re dealing with.
6
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
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SPEAKER_01
I think that I have like, that s more like the root of mine.
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SPEAKER_01
at times can be more challenging to express, I think, because they re just very unusual.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I think that the feeling is ultimately the same.
6
SPEAKER_01
And again, but we both are so in support of the internet as well, where it s like, for sure, we, you know, it can enhance life.
6
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, I think if you re a creative person, it s awesome.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s just trying to figure out.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s about consuming the right stuff when you are online and also making sure that you have a life outside of it as well.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it s tough.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s tough.
6
SPEAKER_00
But I agree.
6
SPEAKER_00
That is important.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s an important distinction that you made, which is that I do still, I m so thankful that as a creative person, being able to have YouTube and Patreon and Instagram as an artist, it s essential.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s super helpful.
6
SPEAKER_00
But it is this thing where I have to constantly remind myself not to get too sucked into it and to appreciate the three-dimensional.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think that s why it s so important to have a goal.
6
SPEAKER_01
to create something that has a positive impact in one way or another.
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SPEAKER_01
Like that s why that s crucial.
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SPEAKER_01
It s because it s like, you know, you don t want to build a career online in a way that is adding to the junk pile.
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SPEAKER_01
Do you know what I m saying?
6
SPEAKER_01
Which is easy to do and can actually be quite fruitful.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s a valuable thing just to create a little quiet place somewhere for people to visit.
6
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes that s enough.
6
SPEAKER_00
That is enough.
6
SPEAKER_01
Hopefully we created a quiet place for the listeners today.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t think it was very quiet.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think we re good.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you feel like we covered it?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I love it.
6
SPEAKER_00
I hope I delivered.
6
SPEAKER_00
You definitely did.