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Welcome to the Art of Charm.
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I m your host, Jordan Harbinger.
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I m here with both producer Jason DeFillippo and Kim Seltzer.
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Hi, Kim.
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Hey, how are you?
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Yeah, I m glad that you were able to join us here at the Art of Charm.
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We don t have all the answers, but we definitely have all the right questions.
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Today on Fan Mail Friday, those questions come from you, and then Kim and I are going to answer some of those.
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If you re new to the Art of Charm podcast, Fan Mail Friday, it s a great... Look, people love this.
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What can I say?
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There s a lot more long format content, interviews with people that you may or may not have heard of, so check out the best of at theartofcharm.com slash best.
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We also have a fundamentals toolbox at theartofcharm.com slash toolbox.
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That s where we ve got things like body language, nonverbal communication, attraction, networking, negotiation, influence, persuasion, all that good stuff that we teach here at the Art of Charm during our live programs.
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And we ll send all that stuff to your inbox if you text charmed.
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That s C-H-A-R-M-E-D to 33444.
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Only works in the U.S., which is lame.
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But if you re anywhere else, you can just go to theartofcharm.com.
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All right, Kim, let s do this.
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We ve got some really, really interesting questions.
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And the first one comes from Hopeless Romantic.
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Jason, take it away for us.
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Hi, Jordan and the Art of Charm family.
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I ve been binge listening to your podcast for quite a while now and really appreciate all that you do.
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All of the advice offered from different perspectives and backgrounds has definitely opened my eyes and changed the way I perceive and interact with the world.
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Something I regularly struggle with is a feeling of emptiness and I m hoping you might have some advice for me in particular.
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I ve been single for about a year now, with some micro-relationships here and there, and nothing I do seems to fill that hole in my heart.
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The hole isn t from the previous relationship, but rather the lack of someone to love.
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I have a full-time job that pays my bills, a pet, loads of hobbies that keep me busy and fit, have done a lot of traveling by myself, a wide variety of supportive friends, live alone and am totally comfortable with it, and who I am as a person.
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Roommates are out of the question, at least for a year or two.
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I m bored with my job, but I m starting night school soon to change my career into an area I m passionate about, so I feel like everything on my end is taken care of in regards to being happy with my life.
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I m the type of person that unconditionally loves once I find someone I m interested in, immediately falling head over heels time and time again, to the point where I fall into a pit that I ve managed to keep myself out of.
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People in the pit are all past mistakes I know I should stay away from.
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Dating sites and apps, no-strings-attached sex, friends with benefits, relationships I knew weren t right for me from the start, etc.
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I feel whole as a person and am not actively seeking a relationship through dating, but this consistent ache for a partner will drive me crazy until I ve found one.
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The problem is, I know now not to let anyone who knocks into my life anymore and wait for someone who meshes well with my life and treats me the same way I treat them.
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How do I quench this?
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Am I doing something wrong?
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Thank you for your time and I hope you can help me.
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Signed, Hopeless Romantic.
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So Kim, the first thing that struck me is, well, like you d said pre-show, there s a lot of questions in some of these questions.
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So what s going on?
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Why do people, first of all, why do people do that?
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Is that just a writing thing or is she having trouble actually narrowing down what her issue really is?
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That s kind of what it sounds like.
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Yeah, well, I think issues are layered.
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I mean, that s part of the thing.
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It s like, and I think actually when people start writing, they figure out it s not just one problem.
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There s a lot of things going on.
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And I find this to be true when I m coaching.
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Somebody will call in with a issue, quote unquote, or a problem, and as we dive in and we kind of peel away the layers, we then determine that there s other things going on.
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I think you re right.
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I think it has to do with the layers like you mentioned, but I know whenever I think, whenever I m first starting to think about a problem, it s almost never
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the same thing after I m done looking at it a lot.
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And I realize, it s like, oh, this person s always busting my chops.
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And then it s like, oh, I m sensitive about these topics because, and then there s this whole thing that has nothing to do with the person generally.
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That s how that plays out, right?
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Exactly.
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But that s why people get overwhelmed with their problems or things that are challenging for them because it s like a whole storm in their head, right?
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Like it s hard to kind of,
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part the clouds and really see the different aspects that they re struggling with.
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And like in this question in particular, there were a lot of layers here.
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Yeah, so let s do layer one here.
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The first thing that struck out at me is that she s really looking for this relationship, and it s like, oh, you know, I just need someone.
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So that strikes me as a little needy, but she even says, I m the type of person that unconditionally loves once I find someone I m interested in, immediately falling head over heels time and time again to the point where I fell into a pit that I ve now managed to keep myself out of.
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People in the pit are all the mistakes I know I should stay away from.
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Like, okay.
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But then he goes on to say, I feel whole as a person.
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I m not actively seeking a relationship through dating.
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But this consistent ache for a partner will drive me crazy until I found them.
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Why, if you re a whole person, are you active?
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Is it killing you that you re single?
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She s all over the place.
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I mean, that s the problem.
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I think that s why she s confused.
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And that s why this is hard for her.
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And what it reminds me of is almost what I call these tornado relationships.
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I think she gets caught up in the tornado.
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She gets caught in and all of a sudden it s like either sexually driven and she finds a lot of quote unquote chemistry with that person.
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And she s all in and she puts everything into it.
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And then it becomes this kind of like codependent.
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She gets lost in the tornado.
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And then suddenly the tornado disappears and she s nowhere.
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And she s left with just remnants on the ground looking around.
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And she s like, oh, my God, what just happened?
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And then she feels the emptiness.
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And you know the void that she s feeling and so it s this up and down thing that I m getting a feel For her about and that s I think hard.
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Yeah, that s what I would ask her about Is that are there patterns in her life where it s like all in or all out, you know, that s what it sounds like Me reading between the lines here, especially where she says people in the pit are all the past mistakes I know I should stay away from dating sites and apps no strings attached sex friends with benefits relationships I knew weren t right for me from the start hopeless romantic is not dumb
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She s actually pretty self-aware, and yet there s a compulsion here to go, well, I know I do all these bad things, but the need for the relationship, aka to fill the hole, is greater than what seems like a fair, healthy amount of common sense.
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Yeah, but she doesn t know how to get there.
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And I think this is what she s struggling with, is that she s finding herself in kind of relationships that are somewhat where she keeps herself at a distance, where she doesn t get really attached.
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Oh, because she s making it more chemistry, sexual whirlwind.
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Exactly.
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And not intimate.
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Right.
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It s not real intimacy.
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It s not depth.
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That makes total sense.
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Yeah.
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And so now she finds that emptiness because there s no depth to the relationship, yet she wants it.
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So then, okay, that leads me to the next question, which is, what s causing this need to be so great in the first place?
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And that s where I think Dr. Phil comes in, right?
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Hopefully not really him, but a real therapist.
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You could ask Kimberly.
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We don t know what s going on with Hopeless Romantic s past, but something was not there that she s trying to get back.
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Yeah, there s something about her ability to attach and commit, and my guess is that she probably didn t have that growing up.
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Yes, I m guessing an absent father or mother, who the hell knows, right?
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It could just be absence in general.
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It could be somebody who was not there for her emotionally.
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It could be somebody who physically wasn t there.
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But for some reason, she didn t learn how to be intimate or it was scary for her.
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Yeah, whatever it was.
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Maybe there s abuse in the past.
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I ve seen, I think.
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It could be, yeah.
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Because hopeless romantic is not hopeless.
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This person is intelligent.
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Well, she s actually hopeful.
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She s hopeful that she will have that, but I think she doesn t know how.
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And so that s what I would love to help her with because a lot of times people aren t aware of what they re doing that kind of recreates that distant kind of relationship rather than having meaningful, deep relationships.
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Yeah, yeah, I think this is something that needs to be talked over with a therapist on the regular, because when it says the hole isn t from a previous relationship, but rather the lack of someone to love, it s a much more complex issue.
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If it was just, oh I got dumped by somebody and now I m going through this thing, it s called a rebound.
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Totally healthy, everyone does it, whatever.
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Totally.
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But this lack of someone to love,
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I mean, I was single for a really, really, really long time, and it didn t bother me that much.
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I didn t have a lack of someone to love.
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I was focused on my own crap, like every other self-centered guy around, you know?
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So the fact is, she s got a job, she s got a pet, she s got hobbies, it looks like she s in good, you know, healthy, she s got a healthy social life.
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The fact is, she s missing an intimate partner, but that shouldn t be a thing that s driving you so crazy you can t stop thinking about it, and you re doing things that are unhealthy as a result.
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When I coach people with this kind of profile where they re having a hard time with intimacy and depth, one of the things that I find to be true is that they have a tremendous hard time disclosing how they feel and in ways that, you know, sharing about themselves, they re more focused on the partner.
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It s actually kind of scary to talk about themselves or it s shunned.
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So they pick people who don t want to hear about them because that s comfortable for them.
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So again, they recreate that whole
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whole pattern.
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Yeah, interesting.
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Well, Hopeless Romantic, you re far from hopeless.
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I hope this helped out a little bit, and definitely get back to us and let us know what your exploration into what s causing that hole leads to.
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I think, look, therapy s healthy.
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Everybody needs a therapist.
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I don t care how sane you think you are.
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Go get a therapist, especially if you have something like this going on, because they ll help you identify what s really happening here, and you might have to attack a different problem entirely.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Thanks for listening and supporting The Art of Charm.
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For a list of all the amazing sponsors and discount codes, visit theartofcharm.com slash advertisers.
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Now, back to Fan Mail Friday.
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Jason, next question.
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Hello, team at The Art of Charm.
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I ve been listening to your podcast for about 10 months, and it s really informative, so thanks to all of you for your efforts.
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I ve been married to my wife for about three years.
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We are close, intimate, and really love each other.
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We haven t really had any fights at all.
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The only issue regarding our relationship I m facing is that when she gets disappointed or angry at me, very minor but legit reasons like I stay up late working when she wanted me to come to sleep, she doesn t really talk for a day or two, doesn t argue, doesn t fight, just remains quiet and gives me the cold shoulder if I try to say I m sorry.
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She gets normal after a day or two by herself.
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My question is how can I reduce the time period when she s angry or rather completely avoid it?
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Many times she doesn t even tell me what went wrong and I keep on thinking the whole time if I really did something terrible.
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Thanks for your help.
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Confused husband from London.
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So this one, this one would drive me crazy.
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I know, especially you and I. Oh man, I could not deal with this.
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So you re a better man than I. Confused husband from London.
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Kim, you had some thoughts on this.
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Yeah, well, first of all, I just noticed these people are from London and what I know to be true, a lot of people who I work with and the British culture is to kind of hold things in, sweep things under the rug.
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There s a little passive aggression.
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And again, that s kind of stemmed from their family of origin.
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It s as a culture.
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Yes, yes.
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And so how people manage anger is to stuff everything inside and not say anything.
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And what happens is it stews and it boils and percolates and then all of a sudden it boils over and then boom, there s a big explosion.
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So maybe what the wife does is that she s like,
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sweeping things under the rug and collecting dust, if you will, and over time.
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And then a little incident will happen and she just blows.
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And then it s like days that she s angry at him.
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So my, I mean, my recommendation is to really work on how can you express yourself when you re angry, when it s happening.
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So the more you talk about how you re feeling when it s happening, the less buildup there ll be.
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I couldn t deal with this myself.
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What would be hard about this for me
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is I m one of those like, let s solve the problem right now.
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Let s talk about it right now, get it over with.
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If you re mad, you can vent, it s cool.
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I understand that.
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I don t wanna have to guess when you re gonna feel better or feel guilty for two days because I would, and then I would resent that because I would think maybe she s trying to control me with this guilt.
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She s more than happy to make me feel guilty about this.
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And especially with something minor like I stay up late working, she wants me to come to sleep.
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So what?
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People got stuff to do.
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But see, that I don t even think is really what s angering her.
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It s probably the fact that she feels ignored and there s a lot of incidences that are happening and it s building up and so when he does that she s like, ugh, at her wit s end.
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Then she ignores him though.
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Well, right, because it s a passive-aggressive kind of like payback.
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I guess I m just not into the passive-aggressive thing.
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It s very difficult.
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It s not my style.
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It s just not my style.
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It s not my style, man.
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You know what I tell couples a lot to do, too, is to almost, when things are calm, when things are good, to talk about this stuff.
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And this is the healthy communication.
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When you don t come to bed, I feel angry and frustrated and ignored.
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So I really would love it next time if you could do your work earlier.
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almost make a contract with each other or how they can handle it in the future so that when it does come up, they re ready and it s not this like big drama.
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Nice.
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Jason, next up.
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Hi Jordan, your podcast has made a significant impact on my life and I thank you.
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You are brilliant, your guests are relevant, and the subject matter could not be any more helpful.
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I m 44, single, working five days a week, finishing a criminal justice degree, and interning one day a week.
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I also train to compete in running and obstacle course races.
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I went back to school to make a career change due to the fact that my children are now in college and I don t have any more time constraints.
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My problem is that the majority of men find me intimidating and the ones who don t aren t worth dating.
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Women have also told me this.
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How can I become more approachable?
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I love people, work with people, and get my energy from people.
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I m attractive and in good shape.
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Most people think I m in my mid-30s.
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My nickname at work is Soldier because of my posture and how I walk.
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This makes me laugh, but I recognize the negative connotations as well.
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My good male friends say that I just need to date more confident men who won t be intimidated by me.
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He says that I m beautiful, blunt, and opinionated, which most men can t handle.
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Also, I don t drink when I m out, and some people feel uncomfortable about this.
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Though, other people drinking doesn t bother me at all.
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Due to my extensive Art of Charm education, I always ask questions and try to get to know people, find out what makes them tick.
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I m doing most things right by Art of Charm standards.
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I m friendly, funny, and confident.
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How can I get a man to talk to me?
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finishing a criminal justice degree, running obstacle courses, career, grown kids, nickname, I mean I didn t even have to get to the nickname at work is soldier because of the posture.
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But what is going on here?
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A lot of AOC sisters have this problem and of course some of them send photos and it s like
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bodybuilder, athlete.
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I mean, I ll be honest, even as a confident guy, that kind of thing, I just assume, oh, well, you know, this girl s pretty athletic.
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If I m gonna set her up with somebody, it s gotta be like a real jockey guy.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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I have a whole theory around all of this.
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And this is actually my specialty in helping women kind of feel into their femininity and be more approachable, especially when they, I know it just so happens that I m right here.
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Yes.
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answer your question.
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But I want to but I want to ask you as a man like what comes to mind because you said that those things kind of jumped out and if this was an online profile and you see a picture of like this really fit woman and we ve seen some of those pictures come in and then she says I run obstacle courses and I m a criminal justice person and all that like what what do you react to?
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Um, well, maybe I m weird, but I definitely have like I dated female police officers and stuff and thought it was pretty, pretty cool.
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And after a while, I didn t worry about it.
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And that came with
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with a whole different set of complications, but I think most guys who are equally confident are gonna still be like, man, I ve gained a little weight, and meanwhile, you re over there doing like 13 pull-ups on your way out the door, because you can, and you re throwing kettlebells around in the garage, and I m like, oh, but Netflix.
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So that would be it s not just and I m not saying like one guy s a fat body and then there s this athletic female I just mean I don t want to have to worry about being competitive with my wife or girlfriend for fitness stuff and I m sure the first thing you re thinking is I don t need that but
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Imagine you re off doing your crossfit or your obstacle Spartan race whatever and I m like I m cheering you on and there s all these big jockey dudes like guys worry about that stuff because we re Thinking that we have to compete with the guys that are competing with you And it s just like not a lot of guys want to sign up for that
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Right.
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And then that s what I hear from a lot of men is that they feel emasculated and that they want to feel like the man and to be able to provide and protect.
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And there s something about women who come across as strong, intimidating, who can do it all, who s a go-getter, that she doesn t need a man.
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SPEAKER_02
And so we get caught into that.
2
SPEAKER_02
But, you know, she says something interesting.
2
SPEAKER_02
She said that she gets feedback about her posture and how she talks.
2
SPEAKER_02
So it s not also just like what she does for a living, but it s the way she is moving her body somehow.
2
SPEAKER_02
Maybe she s stiff in the way she talks.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t know what she wears, and certainly I always recommend... I don t know, Jess, what are you wearing?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, what are you wearing?
2
SPEAKER_02
And how does she react to that?
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, dresses and heels definitely helps with, you know, just being more feminine.
2
SPEAKER_01
But what if she, like, she might be like, oh, I m not going to wear freaking heels, that s bad for you, and I don t want to deal with that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, do women really have to wear dresses and heels just to get guys to not be insecure?
2
SPEAKER_01
That sucks.
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, it s not like the end-all be-all, but let s face it I mean who there s not many guys who don t like women in dresses and it s something that Actually can make a woman feel more feminine.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s not just about the man It s also about the way the woman feels inside this kind of you know She embodies this thing that she puts on her body and she acts that it is it s like a uniform
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I m so loath to tell women, hey you gotta dress this way to be attractive, because I think that s just like, one, not totally true, and two, just a crummy way to, I wouldn t want to tell guys you need to gain, you need to be able to bench 250 in order to be a man.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I wouldn t want to tell women you have to wear heels in order to be a lady.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just, you know, so I want to avoid.
2
SPEAKER_02
But let s face it.
2
SPEAKER_02
See, again, it s not about the man.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s about how she, so if she is walking and talking in a way that looks somehow intimidating or masculine, if a woman puts on a pair of heels, it s almost impossible to walk like a man.
2
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve tried.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, have you?
2
SPEAKER_01
Give it a try.
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SPEAKER_02
Maybe that s what we should try.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I m sorry, a woman walks differently in a pair of flip-flops than she does in a pair of heels.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s all I m saying.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sure, sure.
2
SPEAKER_01
Jess, give it a shot.
2
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Dress, maybe, I hate saying this, but try dressing a little bit differently sometimes, but I would say also
2
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It s so easy for me to be like, don t worry about it, some guys are like this.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would say that you might have to take a little bit more initiative, because I think a lot of guys are counting themselves out of this race just because you seem really confident.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s probably tons of guys that are average, normal guys that think you re really something special, but are like, yeah, but I don t run Spartan races, so she s gonna think I m a wimp.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I would think, I would actually, I would think that.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, and it s also the way she communicates.
2
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So, you know, I always teach women it s not femininity is not about dumbing down or being something that you re not.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s about receiving, you know, like allow men to do things.
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SPEAKER_02
And a lot of times these go-getter women, they don t even realize that they re like producing their life.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
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And the man s like, wait, I want to do that for you.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right, perfect.
2
SPEAKER_01
Jess, hope that helps.
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Let us know how it goes as well because this is not the first time we ve seen this question and not the first time we ve solved this problem, but I feel like it s different for each person because the factors that are making someone less approachable are always different.
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SPEAKER_01
Next up.
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Dear Jordan, where do I start?
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, let me just shout it out.
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SPEAKER_00
Woo-hoo-wee!
2
SPEAKER_00
I hope this can let you know what a big fan I am of your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I have a question.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m a 26-year-old woman, run my own business as founder and teacher of a dance school, got hobbies, friends, I work out and socialize.
2
SPEAKER_00
The one thing missing is a man in my life.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well to be clear, no matter what I do, it always feels like there s this big void, as though I couldn t feel complete or happy without a man.
2
SPEAKER_00
So when I go out, and just for your overall image, I m pretty hot, I smile, I m open and socialized, but I can t seem to find a man.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it s because they can smell the desperation vibe.
2
SPEAKER_00
They say you gotta keep yourself busy and focus on your passions, and then love will come.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I m already doing that, and I can t seem to fake not caring about wanting a man.
2
SPEAKER_00
So my question is, how can I just be less desperate?
2
SPEAKER_00
Or better said, feel whole and happy without a man in my life?
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you so much, Jordan.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you re ever in the Hague, Netherlands, you are welcome for some of my homemade hummus.
2
SPEAKER_00
Lots of love, Sarah.
2
SPEAKER_00
First of all, I m always down for hummus in the Hague.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hague hummus.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sarah, thanks for writing it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, I really appreciate you being a fan.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you know what I love about this one?
2
SPEAKER_01
She said, I m pretty hot.
2
SPEAKER_02
I know, she owned it.
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SPEAKER_02
I love that.
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SPEAKER_02
And that s hot.
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SPEAKER_01
That is hot.
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SPEAKER_02
Right?
2
SPEAKER_01
I think more women should be like, yeah, I m really cute.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because usually they re understanding it as is anyway.
2
SPEAKER_02
I, you know, it s funny that you said that because I just did a whole talk on that yesterday and that, you know, men love women who love themselves.
2
SPEAKER_02
And when women own what they have, it is it s so attractive.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I mean, we find that attractive in men, too.
2
SPEAKER_02
And men and it s not about being conceited or stuck up.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s it s about just kind of confidence in who you are.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, worst case scenario, someone disagrees with you privately.
2
SPEAKER_01
So who gives a crap?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, like privately says, you know what, you re really not hot.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, nobody would ever do that, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Nobody, I ve never seen that.
2
SPEAKER_01
They might just be like, oh yeah, Sarah thinks she s hot.
2
SPEAKER_01
But some guy s gonna be in the corner like, yeah, she s really hot.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then he s gonna be like, what?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, why don t you, that s how conversations about women start with guys.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah?
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh man, that girl Sarah s pretty cute.
2
SPEAKER_01
What, you think so?
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh man, I ll totally hook you guys up.
2
SPEAKER_01
She s not my type.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, that happens all the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, all the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
And Jen s brother s like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
He ll be like, what s up with that girl?
2
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, Jess?
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Totally on the market, you know, because I m just thinking like, hey, like different types of women that I don t even really necessarily.
2
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, we re digressing big time here.
2
SPEAKER_02
No, but I know, but that is good because and actually I feel like it is a good segue to answering her question because beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
2
SPEAKER_02
I believe there s a man for everybody and every woman, every body type, every ethnicity, age, you know, so it is.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t know what s going on with her.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, with this one, it s hard to say, because she appears to have it all, but look, the remarkable similarity between this and the first question is that, to be clearer, no matter what I do, it always feels like there s this big void, as though I could not feel complete or happy without a man, so when I da-da-da, smell the desperation vibe.
2
SPEAKER_01
That, to me, is the very similar slash exact same problem as the first question.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s a little different in that I don t know the age of the first one.
2
SPEAKER_02
She s 26, okay?
2
SPEAKER_02
And I also don t know, and excuse me, but I don t know the culture in the Netherlands.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, do people get married and have kids younger?
2
SPEAKER_02
And so they re not, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
So I m just wondering, like, where this kind of desperation is coming from?
2
SPEAKER_02
Because often I see this with people who want to, like, you know, hunker down and have kids if she s in a small town and everybody else is getting married and she s having this, like, biological hockney.
2
SPEAKER_01
The Hague, Netherlands, big city, relatively speaking.
2
SPEAKER_01
Netherlands is like Northern Europe, Scandinavia, adjacent type of culture.
2
SPEAKER_01
Think Germany, think Sweden-ish.
2
SPEAKER_02
So that s interesting.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I always look at the culture first.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, these are people that may be having kids in their late 30s, whatever, not necessarily all getting married.
2
SPEAKER_01
But who knows, maybe her circle s smaller.
2
SPEAKER_02
But that s what I m wondering.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m just wondering what her environment is like that s causing some of this pressure.
2
SPEAKER_02
But the other thing is, what is that desperation about?
2
SPEAKER_02
Is it about being alone?
2
SPEAKER_02
Does she have a hard time being alone?
2
SPEAKER_02
And if that s the case, I always tell people, you have to be okay to be alone before you can be okay being alone.
2
SPEAKER_02
with someone.
2
SPEAKER_02
Why?
2
SPEAKER_02
Because it s important to be comfortable by yourself and be okay with yourself.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because I find that people who are so desperate to have somebody, so that almost like it becomes their identity, like they re not even separate from that person and that they need somebody to fill them up.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, so that s how you get the one name, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like Brangelina?
2
SPEAKER_02
Something like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s interesting.
2
SPEAKER_01
So who knows?
2
SPEAKER_01
It could be a mixture of environment.
2
SPEAKER_01
It could have something to do with the culture.
3
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It s hard to say here though.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m gonna throw a little I m gonna throw another thing out here Which is that a lot of the Dutch northern European?
3
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Northern just Scandinavian type of men They are not very forthcoming about what they re looking for what they want.
3
SPEAKER_01
They might they just don t
3
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There s not a lot of touching, there s not a lot of walking up and talking to other people.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s funny because when guys from Art of Charm go to Norway, or something like that, recently somebody went to Norway, and all these Norwegian friends of ours were like, oh yeah, you know, you never would talk to anybody in the street like that, it s so strange, it s unusual.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I said, so what if we just do that anyway?
3
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And they were like, oh well, every girl would totally love that, because, you know,
3
SPEAKER_01
Norwegian girls love any guy that s not Norwegian.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is from a female too.
3
SPEAKER_01
So she was like, oh, that would be really weird Oh, but it would totally work on me and all my friends would totally love that and all the guys we ve met from Italy or America whenever they come talk to us We always go out with them and I m just like wow, what a weird double standard So these these Dutch Norwegian Swedish, whatever guys they will not go up and talk to anybody else but once they start doing it
3
SPEAKER_01
or somebody else does it, the response is immediate.
3
SPEAKER_01
So there might be some of that here, but she would know that if she s Dutch.
3
SPEAKER_01
I guess we don t necessarily know if she s Dutch or if she grew up somewhere else.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it sounds like you ve got a lot going on.
3
SPEAKER_01
You work out, you socialize.
3
SPEAKER_01
One thing is missing, this could just be a biological clock.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe it s just ticking.
3
SPEAKER_01
Hormonal, whatever.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, that s what I said in the beginning.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m not sure what that s about.
3
SPEAKER_02
But the other thing is, without beating a dead horse, is the family of origin stuff.
3
SPEAKER_02
We don t know if there s this desperate need to fill a void from some family stuff.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so it s hard for her to be alone.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so I think she hit on the key here.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s better to be happy without somebody because that tends to be, in our experience, in mine especially, when you tend to be the most open to relationships.
3
SPEAKER_01
Doesn t mean you don t have to put yourself out there and continue talking with people and meeting people.
3
SPEAKER_01
It just means that s when things start to fall from the sky.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because when it rains, it pours when it comes.
3
SPEAKER_01
The same thing for guys.
3
SPEAKER_01
When guys have girlfriends, women seem to come out of the woodwork.
3
SPEAKER_01
Guys, you ever notice that?
3
SPEAKER_01
The reason, partially, is because you re not acting like a frickin  dog that s starving.
3
SPEAKER_02
So true, so true.
3
SPEAKER_02
I know.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s funny, even when people decide that they want to work on their dating life and they start coaching with me or whatever, the minute they commit to themselves is when all of a sudden they start hearing from old boyfriends, guys start looking at them,
3
SPEAKER_02
People will be like, Kim, do you have a voodoo doll or something?
3
SPEAKER_02
And I say to them, no, it s your energy.
3
SPEAKER_02
You re suddenly not this desperate.
3
SPEAKER_01
And by energy, you mean the vibe you re putting out there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because I hate the word energy.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s too woo-woo.
3
SPEAKER_02
It is.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes, it s the vibe that you re putting out there, but also just in terms of demeanor, like your mindset, it s mindset to mindset.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, the mindset is what the shift in mindset is what changes the behavior slightly enough to be just a little bit more confident, probably a little bit disinterested as well.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes, yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
So your body language is different as well.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you re not leaning in and being too nice.
3
SPEAKER_01
And who knows?
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I haven t spent enough time in Northern Europe to really know, although I did live in Germany and I ll tell you, over there, it s just, the dating thing is completely different.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you gotta give a little bit of a head nod to, or a hat tip to the fact that people aren t necessarily gonna put themselves out there as much.
3
SPEAKER_01
Alright Jason, last but not least.
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Hi AOC folks.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve been listening to your podcast for a couple months now and you ve become regular voices in my commute.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve gained lots of good information and tips.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve found quite a few topics that relate to where I am right now in my life.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m hoping you can help me out.
3
SPEAKER_00
Buckle in because this is a weird one.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m in a strange place in my life, and I m struggling to get motivated and creative again after a rough few years.
3
SPEAKER_00
I recently have gone through some pretty significant changes.
3
SPEAKER_00
The two biggest have been a death in the family, as well as a divorce that made me aware of my ex-husband s secret family.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, really.
3
SPEAKER_00
So as a full-time art director and mother of four, I m looking to find my spark again, jumpstart my creativity, and get back to showing my kids a good example of how one can bounce back from this trauma and get back to rocking life.
3
SPEAKER_00
But the thing is, I m exhausted.
3
SPEAKER_00
Emotionally, creatively, physically wiped out.
3
SPEAKER_00
Any pointers on getting my groove back?
3
SPEAKER_00
Please let me know if you need any more information to help you tackle this question.
3
SPEAKER_00
I hope this makes it on the air.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, it has.
3
SPEAKER_00
Best, Caroline.
3
SPEAKER_00
All right.
3
SPEAKER_01
Kim, this one, first of all, holy crap.
3
SPEAKER_01
Secret family is this a Mexican soap opera.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know that s incredible.
3
SPEAKER_01
You don t hear about that very often not I m trying to make you into a circus Exhibit here Caroline.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is really a shame, but holy holy cow I mean
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, this is tough.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, here s the thing.
3
SPEAKER_02
She s been through a tremendous amount of loss, and what we know about grieving is that when you have one loss and then another one on top of it, especially close together, you grieve the first loss, and so it layers upon itself again, and so it becomes really heavy.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s hard, too, to be creative when you re in this state of heaviness, and so she s probably feeling that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right, so, oh, I see.
3
SPEAKER_01
Death in the family as well as a divorce.
3
SPEAKER_01
And not just any divorce, secret family divorce.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so this is like getting hit in the face multiple times and then trying to get your balance.
3
SPEAKER_02
Exactly, like multiple blows.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so she said she s exhausted emotionally, creatively, physically wiped out.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she has four kids, so this isn t like, alright, go to the beach for two weeks.
3
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s other issues.
3
SPEAKER_02
You can t just close the door and walk out.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
So, um, I, you know, when I get situations like this and people come to it again, it s good to lay out what all the stressors are right now.
3
SPEAKER_02
Um, because right.
3
SPEAKER_02
She s probably just overwhelmed with the different feelings that you go through and grieving, you know, there s depression, there s anger, there s bargaining stages of grief stages of grief, as you know.
3
SPEAKER_02
So,
3
SPEAKER_02
Um, I think that once you, she figures out for herself, first of all, just how to kind of feel almost back on her feet.
3
SPEAKER_02
She needs to do things to balance out some of this heaviness and she s taking care of the kids too.
3
SPEAKER_02
She can carve out times in the, in the day and the week where she s taking care of herself.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it could be small, it could be like a massage.
3
SPEAKER_02
It could be things like, you know, going to, you know,
3
SPEAKER_01
tea with her girlfriend or whatever it is that... I want to make sure she s working out too.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think working out is like a miracle drug.
3
SPEAKER_01
It cures freaking everything.
3
SPEAKER_01
The other thing is, and I m just spitballing, so Kim, you could disagree with me here, but with four kids and with the divorce and the secret family, everybody s probably feeling like rejected because dad had a secret family, which is insanity.
3
SPEAKER_01
So maybe there s an activity that the whole family, four and her, can do
3
SPEAKER_01
together that will sort of strengthen their bond and say like, look, that guy caused a lot of grief, but we re all doing this pottery thing and we re all doing this activity or this cool sport.
3
SPEAKER_01
Something that everybody likes so that your kids and you are kind of like, you re on the same team.
3
SPEAKER_01
your team, whatever your last name is, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
You can create a more solid unit, that way not everybody s feeling alone, because who knows?
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you re probably feeling alone, Carolyn, a little bit from the divorce and the death, and then your kids are like, mom s all stressed out, so maybe you re not emotionally there as much, so they re feeling weird.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe strengthen those bonds that you have with your family, and I think you ll feel like, if you feel like you ve got four teammates at home rather than four
3
SPEAKER_01
screaming kids who need attention because you re busy and torn in all these different directions, I think that might do you some good.
3
SPEAKER_02
I love that.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m glad you mentioned that, too, because one thing that came to my mind is how much do the kids know?
3
SPEAKER_02
We don t know if the kids even know what happened.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, they could be 16 or they could be 6.
3
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_02
So we don t know.
3
SPEAKER_02
But it s good.
3
SPEAKER_02
I would highly recommend family therapy, too, to your point, so that there s some communication amongst them.
3
SPEAKER_01
Family therapy followed by some bowling.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or whatever, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Ice cream.
3
SPEAKER_01
Something interesting.
3
SPEAKER_02
Or if they re 21, a beer.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
So, Carolyn, let us know how this goes, really, because you ve been through a lot.
3
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t have to ruin your family, though.
3
SPEAKER_01
It really doesn t.
3
SPEAKER_02
And you can have a life again.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, but one step at a time, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
Right, right.
3
SPEAKER_01
All right, hope you all enjoyed that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Don t forget, you can email us, friday at theartofcharm.com to get your questions answered on the air.
3
SPEAKER_01
A link to this blog post can be found at theartofcharm.com slash fmf84.
3
SPEAKER_01
Also, don t forget about the Art of Charm Challenge, text charmed.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s C-H-A-R-M-E-D to 33444 in the USA, or if you re not, go to theartofcharm.com.
3
SPEAKER_01
We ll take you step-by-step becoming a better networker, making better personal professional connections, increasing your social capital, your charisma, and it s for both guys and gals, so check that out.
3
SPEAKER_01
Text CHARMED.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s C-H-A-R-M-E-D to 33444 in the US, or go to theartofcharm.com.
3
SPEAKER_01
Quick shout out goes to Annabelle from EMSI who hooked me up with an opportunity to speak where I gave the keynote for their annual conference this year.
3
SPEAKER_01
Y all are a great crowd.
3
SPEAKER_01
I hope AOC has some new fans as a result of that and Annabelle, I m a fan of you for sure for setting that up for me.
3
SPEAKER_01
Thanks so much.
3
SPEAKER_01
Are you in a strange land listening to my familiar voice?
3
SPEAKER_01
If so, hit me up and I ll shout you out.
3
SPEAKER_01
More from the Art of Charm at theartofcharm.com
4
SPEAKER_00
including info on our live residential boot camps that we run every single week here in LA.
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If you really want to dig into this stuff and work on your AOC skills with us as your coaches, that s bootcamp.theartofcharm.com.
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Now stay charming, get out there and connect, and leave everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to The Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and more at theartofcharmpodcast.com.