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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, I set an ASP record for Name That Tune, we have a chuckle about the most overused saying in the history of the world, and we get a little deep and explore the concept of paradigm blindness.
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast.
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My name is Bill Kasky.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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Hello, Mr. Brian.
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I m a little tired today.
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You look it.
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Day one back from spring break.
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Well, we re recording this in April, just so you don t think we re recording it in January.
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And it s snowing right now outside.
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And you just got back from a warm climate area.
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It s gorgeous.
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This is a rude awakening.
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I looked to see if we had any listeners in Aruba, and I couldn t find any.
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But there are a lot of salespeople in Aruba.
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They sell vacation homes, rentals, and then there s people that sell to the hotels and stuff.
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Lots of things down there.
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But what a gorgeous place.
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Highly recommend everybody go to Aruba, because it s clean, the poverty s low, it s always the same temperature and breezy and sunny, and it s just gorgeous.
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And their airport is great.
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It s wonderful.
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Isn t it all open?
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All outside.
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It s just so easy.
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Everything s easy.
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Really big fan.
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And I took my kid to Wendy s when I was there, because he wanted to see if the Wendy s there tastes the same, like, does the Baconator in Aruba taste the same as the Baconator in Indianapolis?
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The answer is... It does.
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Yes.
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Yep, it does.
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All right.
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Okay, I ve got a music trivia here for you.
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Oh, good.
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Good.
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And I ve got the intro, and I don t want to play the whole intro, so we ll go as long as it takes for you to tell us what the name of the song is, but I m really looking for the name of the group here.
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I knew that was going to happen.
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And I heard this song the other day, and I really like this song.
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It s really good.
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It had a great MTV video with it.
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But I could not think of the name of the group.
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So you ll probably get it.
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So here we go.
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Oh, stop.
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Got it.
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Back that down a little bit.
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You want me to say it?
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I do.
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I know it just from the first two drum hits.
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Stop.
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Yeah, I got it.
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Done.
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Okay.
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You want me to stop it?
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Done.
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Yeah.
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What is it?
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It is If You Leave by Orchestral Maneuvers in the Dark.
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Awesome.
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Or No Way to Be.
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Awesome.
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How did you know that?
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It s one of my favorite songs.
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I give a keynote speech every year to a high school group, and I tell a story about a friend of mine who passed away, and this is the song that I played for the high school kids.
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That s definitely not fair.
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No, no, it s not fair.
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What a great song, though, isn t it?
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It is a great song.
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Didn t it have a great video with it?
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Wonderful.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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It s such a perfect 80s sound.
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It is.
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It s so good.
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Is this yacht rock?
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No, no, no.
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Definitely not.
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This would be 80s, like on the edge of new wave.
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Okay.
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New wavy.
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Now I have to tell you OMD s other song that I also love.
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What is their other song?
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They have, they have, they re like, people think they re a one-hit wonder.
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They had one of those songs that got airplay, now I gotta remember what it is.
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Doggone it.
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I didn t know they had another song.
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They do.
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And it is a... Well, that wasn t much of a challenge for you, Brian.
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I ve got the other song, I m thinking.
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I Never Know Why.
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I never know, I never know, I never know why you make me wanna cry.
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I never know, I never know, I never know, I never know why.
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I don t remember what it s called, Wire.
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That s OMD s other song.
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Interesting.
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If you could find that one.
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No, I can t.
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I ll see if you leave everywhere.
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But yeah, it wasn t as popular as that one.
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Yeah.
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Anyway, so good job.
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Love that.
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OMD, thank you.
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I would give you a prize if we gave out prizes here.
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I ll give you a DanceLink podcast computer stick.
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I think I told you that I went on, in Aruba, they have, you know, we re staying at a resort and they have these people that play all these games that are kind of fun, but kind of annoying over a week s time.
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But they did a music trivia, kind of in the pool area.
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And I just decided not to play.
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And I should have played because I would have won.
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It s funny when you get, you know, we were with the family, so we were kind of tame, but the drunkards, a lot of people that weren t with their kids that were smashed, couldn t really remember things very well.
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So I would have won.
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No, wait.
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No, no, no, no.
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I know it.
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Medals.
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That s funny.
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All right.
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Well, we ve been mentoring and training sales professionals here at the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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Brian and I have for years.
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And one of the most important elements to career success is this.
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You must align yourself with a company that develops their employees, values customers, and has a portfolio of products that can compete with anyone.
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That s why we recommend our podcast listeners have CenturyLink at the top of their list when they look for a new career opportunity.
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With the recent acquisition of Level 3, the new CenturyLink has become a world leader in the areas of cloud, security, real-time communications, managed services, and hybrid IT.
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If you re a top performer, listen up.
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If you re looking for a fresh start in 2018, visit CenturyLink.com forward slash advanced selling and join the talent community there.
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Once you join the community, a member of their team will reach out soon to connect and see if a career at CenturyLink is the right next step for you.
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Once again, centurylink.com forward slash advanced selling.
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Give your radio voice on today.
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Sounds really great.
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Very velvety and smooth.
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Very velvety and smooth.
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The other OMD song is called Forever Live and Die.
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Couldn t get it.
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I just had to look it up.
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Forever Live and Die.
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Well, it s a great song too.
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It s a great band.
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That was unfair.
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It wasn t even like the first drum beat.
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It s one of my favorite songs in history that I love.
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So yeah, it was kind of the first drum beat.
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You had to start it three times because I kept saying stop.
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I know.
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I know because it s a fun game though.
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I love that game.
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All right.
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All right.
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Topic.
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Topic today.
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I was reading over the weekend, and I m always interested, as you know, in psychology concepts that help us as sales professionals, help us achieve.
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And one of the things I came across was a term called paradigm blindness.
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And although it sounds very psychobably,
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It really means that we have become so locked into a way of doing things and some assumptions that we find it difficult to get out of that paradigm into something else.
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So when someone comes along and says, hey, Brian, I ve got a new way to look at this, it may be the way to look at it, but if you re too locked into the old paradigm, you will be blind to the new paradigm.
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And I think the way this comes up for us and our listeners and the people that you and I work with individually, some of our clients, is that
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When we get into sales, when we re in our 20s, we start down a path.
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And we have mentors and leaders and maybe sales trainers and coaches that take us down this path.
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And it becomes a very rigid path of how to persuade, how to convince, how to sell, how to generate business, how to generate leads, how to have that first conversation.
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All those things are kind of covered.
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And then when guys, crazy dudes like us come along and we say, wait a minute, why are you doing it that way?
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There s a better, more substantial, more effective and elegant way to do it.
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People will say, yeah, but that s the way I do it.
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I do it this way.
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Even though they have all sorts of pain, all sorts of issues, they get resistance.
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In our way, you don t get that as much.
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No.
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And so the question I have is, is there a way to recognize when you re blind to new paradigms and ways to kind of catch yourself and say, wait, I got to figure out a way to not be blind to new ways to do things?
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Yeah, it s an interesting topic for our listeners because,
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all of us have a certain way, we too, how we would operate, right?
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Absolutely.
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And so there s this stop and starting point that says, OK, at what point do I keep what I know has worked for me and that I feel comfortable with?
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And then at what point am I open to other ideas that might enhance what I ve already done and or then what things do I need to shed?
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What things do I need to let go of?
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along the way.
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And it s constantly going on.
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And I think what this concept is, this paradigm blindness, is where I ve shut all those off.
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I basically said, there s one way to do something.
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It s this way.
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It s the way I ve done it.
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I m not going to be open to any other way, no enhancements or anything.
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That s where I think the real risk comes in.
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I think what we re not saying, because it would be counterintuitive to say,
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Don t have paradigm blindness against someone else s deal.
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Listen to the advanced podcast.
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Do everything what we say.
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That s kind of going against the whole idea, too, right?
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We don t want to say that.
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And I know you re half joking there, or maybe 90% joking.
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No.
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No, 87% joking.
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But I think that when we, and I agree with you, that we don t want to be jumping around every time a new idea comes along.
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But I think our paradigm has to be based on some principles and some values.
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It has to be based on some kind of a rock solid foundation of ideas that then the language comes from, and the attitudes come from, and the sales tactics and strategies come from.
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That s one thing that I think your paradigm has to take into account is does it match your personal value system like that s good sometimes sales Training can be manipulative.
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Yeah, and if it if that doesn t match your value system, then you can t use that one.
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Yeah, because You just can t you just can t because it you a won t because it doesn t match your values But I think that s part of this is becoming
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crystal clear on what do you value, and what are the principles, and what s your purpose for even being in business, and then build on that structure.
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I like to filter things through that better.
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That s a good thing to do.
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And then what you can do is we ll get into some of the tactics for our listeners here in a bit.
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But then you can take the ideas and roll them through that.
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Absolutely.
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And make them work for you.
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Totally.
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Because you re going to execute different than me.
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Yeah, totally.
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Okay, so we ve got a handful two or three or four each that we have decided that if you think you might be falling into paradigm blindness Here are some ways to get out of it.
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I like it.
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I m gonna go first.
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So you go first.
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All right
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Bill, do you know who Michio Kaku is?
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Michio Kaku?
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You ve probably seen him on TV.
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Now, I m a geek.
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I watch shows on Discovery all the time.
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Instead of sitcoms and things like that, I will tend to watch Through the Wormhole or Secrets of the Universe, things like that.
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I just love the expanse of thought.
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He is a really, really famous physicist.
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And I saw him being interviewed the other day.
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And he s like Einstein-level physicist, like one of the top thinkers in the world right now.
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Futurism and things like that.
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Is he American?
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He is.
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He s from San Jose, California, I think.
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Really great guy.
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Really funny.
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He knows how to put things into understandable bits.
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But he said that he said, I knew I wanted to be a physicist when I was eight.
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And he d heard about Einstein, who wanted to answer the question, what is the secret to everything?
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He wanted to answer that question as a physicist.
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Professor Kaku says now, Kaku, is he looks at everything as if he just got here to the planet.
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Everything he looks at, he pretends like he just arrived all the time and he doesn t know anything is how he figures out everything.
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And I think that s an interesting muscle to flex.
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It s really hard for us to approach anything like, what if I didn t know anything?
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And it s hard to do, because you know so much.
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It s so hard to let that go.
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Seeing a brilliant guy like him trying to figure out the world that way was fascinating in this interview, to hear him and see the fresh perspective that it brings.
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From a sales standpoint, it s interesting.
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What if I didn t know how to do anything?
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What if I didn t know about how to prospect, find people?
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What would I do?
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Where would I go?
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How would I do it to attack that and maybe whiteboard it out or something like that?
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It s a muscle to flex, though, because it s not natural.
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That s really good.
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It s really hard, isn t it?
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That s worthy of a sales meeting.
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If you re a sales leader and want to have a unique discussion, go explore.
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We ll put his name in the show notes.
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Yeah, it d be great.
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To explore that.
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Because that does, that blasts you out of the paradigm.
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Completely.
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Yeah.
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Completely.
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I ve got one here that s, let s see.
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This is probably more for you if you know that the way you re doing things right now doesn t work so well and you want to move into a new way, that the idea of incrementalism is probably a good way to think about that, which is, let s say Brian and I
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have taught you over the last few episodes how to run a first call.
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And you have run first calls before in the old way and the way that you re comfortable with, but you see some kind of glimmer of potential in what we re teaching you.
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Just go in and start with one or two sentences.
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Don t try to
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Pull everything that we ve talked about in the last 700 episodes and try to make it all work because it doesn t work that way We learned this method and we ve learned it as we have taught it and as we have created it one step at a time Yeah, and so even if it s a simple if it s as simple as saying to the prospect up front before we begin I just need to tell you I don t know for sure whether I have anything that can help you.
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Yeah
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If that s all you say and everything else, you go back to your other paradigm, just start practicing little tiny things like that.
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And I think you ll grow your way out of that old way into the new way pretty quickly, because especially if you have two or three calls a day or several meetings a week, it doesn t take long before you re starting to develop some new habits.
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I would also argue, I don t know what the opposite of incrementalism is.
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obsessive, it s like you re going all in, right?
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You re taking it all in at once.
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Is it drinking through the fire hose-ism?
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I do.
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I have heard that.
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I hate that.
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People say drinking through a fire hose.
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And I love when people say it like it s new, like they re on a stage in front of 6,000 people.
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And so what you re going to sense here is I m going to give you a lot of material and it s going to feel like, kind of like you might be
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drinking through a fire hose, a little snicker, a little smug snicker, but that s okay.
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It s okay.
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If you feel like you re drinking through a fire, has anyone ever taken a drink through a fire?
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If someone has to have done that, that s ridiculous.
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Okay.
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We digress.
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But I agree with you there.
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I think that what happens here is if you try to do all of it at once,
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I heard that like seven times last week.
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I m like, please say something different, please.
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If you try to do it all at once, it will not work.
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There should be some kind of, I m going back to the drinking through the fire hose.
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There should be some kind of understood rule that when you re the one that s drinking through it, you can t say it.
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You can t say it.
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Everybody else, like your leader, would say, well, you know, Brian just came on board.
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You know, we got him drinking through a fire.
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That s OK.
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But when you re the one that said, oh, I m drinking through a fire hose.
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And then I wonder, like back in the 1700s, what did they do before they had fire hoses?
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It s like drinking through someone pumping a well very quickly, very quickly.
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Not quite.
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Okay.
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Sorry about that.
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That s okay.
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That s very funny though.
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You can t, you will, this will reinforce your blindness to the new paradigm.
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If you try to change it all at once, it will not work.
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Yeah, it didn t work.
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I ll go back together.
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So I love the idea of incrementalism.
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what that s worth, and we ll never say drinking through a fire hose.
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No, we won t.
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That s officially the last time.
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We need to make a list.
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Can I go?
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Mm-hmm.
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I wrote down, this is very reflective, to document your resistance.
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Document your resistance.
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I think sometimes people take an idea in and immediately, if it doesn t work for them, they cast it out.
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And instead of just casting it out, I d like for you to take a step deeper and say, here s why I m not OK with that new idea or that new thinking.
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And what I wrote down after that is that likely, if you do this right, you ll get to some fear basis.
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There s always a fear-based thing.
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There s always in that resistance.
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Yes, behind it.
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So I m afraid it won t work.
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I m afraid I ll sound stupid.
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So like a simple tactic that we teach, we teach about clear futures.
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And we talk about having the prospect get their calendar out in the meeting.
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When I first teach it, I can tell people are scared of it.
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And it works.
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It just works.
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It s just a great tool to use.
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And so I ve now learned that I have to drill down on that in the room when I m teaching it to say, OK, so tell me, what about what I m teaching you is uncomfortable for you?
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And then we go down to, what are you afraid of?
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Feels like pressure.
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Yes, I m afraid.
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I m going to pressure them.
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I m afraid they re going to say no.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m afraid they won t continue the process, whatever.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s always fear-based.
1
SPEAKER_01
That creates the resistance.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s good.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
But that s a great example of how we ve got to change the paradigm away from the notion of pressuring the customer to the notion of, hey, if he or she is on fire for this and wants to do something, then why would we put it off?
1
SPEAKER_00
Why would we say, you know what?
1
SPEAKER_00
Just put your calendar away.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ll call you back in a month or so when you re in a little bit more pain or have forgotten about it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Why is pressure bad?
1
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes it s good, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
That s a paradigm shift.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I would even, I think you, again, we re reworking a lot of these as we go.
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SPEAKER_00
But I think the pressure is not pressure.
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SPEAKER_00
It s just, hey, you ve asked me to come in and help you, and you appear to need help.
1
SPEAKER_00
So do you want to schedule something else?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s good.
1
SPEAKER_00
OK.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have another one that kind of fits along that a little bit deeper.
1
SPEAKER_00
This idea of surrender, and surrender is a very, it s a hot word because it feels weak and wobbly, and it feels like you re giving up.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I don t think it is.
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SPEAKER_00
Actually, I think there is a lot of power in surrender.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if you are at any point in your life or now you have a spiritual tinge to you and you re interested in the spiritual notions, I think surrender can be a very handy
1
SPEAKER_00
way to think about the way you do things.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you see this a lot, where we go in and talk to a CEO versus going in and talk to someone who s maybe on the sales team or a lower level person.
1
SPEAKER_00
The CEO typically says, hey, if there s a better way, sign me up, man.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
1
SPEAKER_00
And everybody else in the organization s kind of like, whoa, wait a minute.
1
SPEAKER_00
Whoa, we ve done this for so long.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, we ve got to have data.
1
SPEAKER_00
We ve got to have data.
1
SPEAKER_00
And a lot of times, the leaders, the best leaders say, what can we do better?
1
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re not so invested in the old paradigm.
1
SPEAKER_01
Did you see Mark Benioff on 60 Minutes last night?
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SPEAKER_01
No, I didn t.
1
SPEAKER_01
Brilliant.
1
SPEAKER_01
That guy is so brilliant.
1
SPEAKER_01
Talking about gender pay and equality in pay, and he had his HR
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SPEAKER_01
director come to him and say, we ve got a problem with pay.
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SPEAKER_01
Women are making less.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he said, no, we don t.
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SPEAKER_01
We re best places to work, great culture.
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SPEAKER_01
There s no way.
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SPEAKER_01
She s like, no, we do.
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SPEAKER_01
And he s like, well, prove it.
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SPEAKER_01
Show me.
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SPEAKER_01
He was real nice about it.
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SPEAKER_01
She showed him, and he s like, we did.
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SPEAKER_01
He goes, I was shocked.
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SPEAKER_01
I thought for sure we didn t because we had such a good culture.
2
SPEAKER_01
So they trued them all up.
2
SPEAKER_01
He said $6 million a year to true all the salaries up.
2
SPEAKER_01
Then he said he s calling his CEO buddies, saying, you guys got to do this.
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SPEAKER_01
And they re all like, nah, don t think so.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he s like, you know, it was real interesting to hear him talk about that and how he shifted the paradigm and leading with action, that sort of thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was just really, really great.
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SPEAKER_00
Very healthy discussion.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he is that kind of guy, from what I understand, that he is willing to look and fix it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he was blind to it.
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SPEAKER_01
He said, you go ahead and look at the data.
2
SPEAKER_01
He was kind of like, I know we don t.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he s even said it in a kind of cocky way.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then he was like, oh, it s too loud.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think he s allowed to be a little cocky.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he s done OK.
2
SPEAKER_00
The other thing I had on this one.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, actually this is this is a hearkening back to something that you said about documenting your resistance Yeah, why is it this kind of rates up there on my scale of annoyances with bad audio?
2
SPEAKER_00
I
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, there s a TED Talk that you ve got to see.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ll bring it in.
2
SPEAKER_00
He talks about audio and how important it is.
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SPEAKER_00
He s my man.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s my hero.
2
SPEAKER_00
But why are we so reluctant to document?
2
SPEAKER_00
You talked about documenting resistance.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I had it written down.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want to come back to it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Why is it that we are so reluctant to document anything?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
We document things here at the podcast, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
We record these, correct?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but I mean, if you go into a, let s say, a prospect calls you, and you go out and see them this week, and you say to them, hey, let me see the documentation of your story, of how you teach your people to tell the story of the company, and the value, and the message.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let me see that document.
2
SPEAKER_00
They would not be able to produce it for you.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, they wouldn t.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s one of my favorite things to do early on, not to show people up, but to let them see.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because people say that all the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, yeah, I ve got a plan.
2
SPEAKER_01
Can you hand it to me?
2
SPEAKER_01
Can you pull up our computer?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, I mean, it s all up here.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s the problem, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if anything that we ve said today appeals to you, then I think documenting it and just writing it down, fleshing through it, something happens when you put it on paper and start to think through it and share it with other people that I think it tends to find a place deeper inside you than just trying to remember it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Good episode.
2
SPEAKER_00
A lot there on that one, huh?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Paradigm blindness.
2
SPEAKER_01
Paradigm blindness.
2
SPEAKER_01
We like.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hey, that s it for today.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you have a sales meeting, national sales meeting conference coming up, we re heading out in May to do a live recording.
2
SPEAKER_01
Together, we ll record a live podcast.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a really fun event.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you want to spice up your sales meeting, make it more fun than it usually is, send us an email.
2
SPEAKER_01
Listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_01
Just put in the subject line, come see us, and we ll talk about how to come out and record a live podcast and do a little training and coaching while we re there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Really great event.
2
SPEAKER_01
Listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com, but come see us in the subject line.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s all I got for today.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s all I got.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m out.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.