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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill shares a remarkable comeback from behind story to retain his championship horse status at his wife Jane s family reunion.
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He also gives me the stop sign with the biggest hands I ve ever seen.
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And we take a topic request from our insider group about how to grow your income without getting promoted or without working any harder than you want to.
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Welcome back, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast.
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My name is Bill Kasky.
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And I m Brian Neal.
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We are happy you are with us today.
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If you have not already gone to our LinkedIn group and become a member, go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn.
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Also, check out all the variety of goodies at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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Yeah, we ve got a wonderful event coming up.
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You hear us talk about the Insider all the time, the Advanced Learning Podcast Insider.
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And we ve got a wonderful event coming up in July that we ll be telling you about.
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And it s going to be open for everyone and essentially a way for you to come check out what it s like to be in the Insider program without paying for it for a session.
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Right?
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Kind of a complimentary deal.
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So stay tuned.
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You re going to get lots of information from us.
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But if you ve been wondering, you hear us talk about it, like, maybe I want to check out that insider program that Bill and Brian always talk about.
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Well, you will have your chance in July.
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Stay tuned for that.
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And we will, during that event that we re going to be telling you about later, we re also going to be talking about the next six months of 2021.
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Yes.
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And make sure that you are ready for,
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concluding the year off right and also building your momentum for 2022.
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So it ll be a really good content piece as well.
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So we ll get into that here in the next episode or two.
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That d be great.
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Did you have a good Father s Day?
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I had a great Father s Day.
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Yeah, we went to my wife s every other year family reunion, all of her relatives.
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And we go to Houston Woods, which is a state park in Ohio, near Oxford, Ohio.
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And it s always great.
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It s a lot of fun.
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There s a whole lot of party and a whole lot of craziness.
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We do games like Olympic-style games where everybody has a... And my team won this year.
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Oh, good.
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What do you get when you win?
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You get a blue ribbon.
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OK.
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That s original.
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It s very nominal.
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Yes, very nominal.
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But I will tell you that I always compete in the horse competition because of my background in basketball.
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Oh, horse.
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I m sorry.
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You were thinking riding.
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I was.
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Or shoes.
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We pitch horse shoes.
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Oh, you pitch horse shoes.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Southern Indiana.
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That s good.
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That s great.
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But I was in the competition.
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It always comes back to Jason Mullaney and I. And Jason is 40 years old.
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I think he s a podcast listener.
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Oh, good.
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Works out of Buffalo, New York.
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And it always comes down to he and I, because he s an awesome basketball player and tennis player, a great athlete.
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And I will tell you, I ll toot my own horn here.
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We got down to the last, it was me against him, I had HOR, and for those of you who play horse, you know HOR is not good, because all you need is an S and an E and you re done.
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He had zero.
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And I was just not, I was not stroking it, I was not hitting, I was not jumping, it was just windy and everything was off.
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So I got down to he and I, I m like, well, I gotta deliver here.
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I hit five shots in a row from like 15 to 18 feet, and he missed all five.
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And it was over.
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Gone.
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Just like gone.
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It was over.
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That s fantastic.
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A minute and a half.
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Doesn t that feel good?
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Yeah, he loves it when I continue.
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When you find your way?
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Yeah.
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You find your way back to that zone.
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It s just a groove.
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And then tomorrow, it ll be all gone again.
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What was his name?
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Jason?
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Jason.
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Yeah.
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I had a great, probably the best Father s Day I ve ever had.
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It s really great.
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Good.
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It was wonderful.
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I liked it.
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It was one of those, very nostalgic.
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Like my kids brought like four stacks of pictures of me and them when they were little.
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Oh, that s great.
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I just went through them, just bawled my eyes out.
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OK, topic today is income.
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This actually came from a group of people who are in the ASP Insider group.
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and chatted with them a little bit.
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Producer Rachel got a hold of them and had a little round table with them.
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And they gave us a few topic ideas, which we thought were really cool.
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One of the topic ideas was, how do I raise my income
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without getting a bigger job.
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In this case, they said like an enterprise account rep job.
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So if you think about salespeople s, individual sales producers  way to get more income, one of the ways is to get promoted or move to a bigger account space, right?
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With bigger territories, and bigger commissions, and bigger, bigger, bigger.
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Yeah, all that stuff.
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But what if you don t want to do that?
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What if you want to stay in your kind of local territory, or your small regional territory, and you still want to make enterprise type cash?
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What do you do if you re in kind of a smaller territory,
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make some enterprise-type cash, what do you do?
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So we re going to talk about that a little bit today.
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Do you want me to start us off?
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Yeah, why don t you start us off?
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I think it s a good topic, though, because we talk about income a lot.
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We talk about sales.
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And we also talk about the mindset around all of those things.
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And to me, this topic is where it all kind of comes together.
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So yeah, you go, and then I ve got a couple of thoughts on.
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Yeah, we re going to riff on this.
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So a good way for you to listen to this episode is we re going to go a little self-reflective, maybe a little tactical back and forth, but really be sitting back and thinking about your own.
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Take a reflection back the first six months of 2021.
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And I know a lot of people have done self-reflection around home and COVID and what life means and that sort of thing.
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And now think about what does it mean going forward for you.
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So the first thing I like to think about with income, if a client comes to us and says, I want to grow my income, and we might say from where to where.
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Well, I m making 200 grand.
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My goal would be to get to 400 by the time I m 40.
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I always want to dig into what they re after with the income.
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Because if you think money is going to make you happier.
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It can go to the stuff mart more frequently.
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It does.
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It doesn t make you happy.
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Would you agree, Bill?
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Money does not make you happier.
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It does not make you happier.
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Or it allows you to buy more stuff.
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I m cleaning that up.
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That you don t need.
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That you don t need.
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And you buy like, oh, I want to get this car and a Tesla.
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And you feel happy you got a Tesla.
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Well, there are a lot of people that have a Tesla now.
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So is that what it is?
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Is it for some sort of security reason?
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So I want to make sure I set myself up so I can retire or whatever.
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And then that s some pending event in the future.
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So is it that?
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Is it that you re trying to pay for your kid s college?
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And there s no law that says you have to pay for your kid s college.
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No.
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It s a really, really important reflection to go back and say, why am I really after this money?
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And if someone says, I want to go from $200 to $400, then I m going to say, well, what s magic about $400?
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Why d you stop there?
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Why didn t you go from $400 to $800?
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And then all this stuff starts going, well, you know, whatever.
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I can t do that.
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I can do $400.
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That s impossible.
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So that, to me, is where it all starts.
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It starts with a deep connection yourself to ask yourself, why do I want to make more money?
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Why do I want to make more money?
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And I think you get to be really clear with that and really reflect on things that you think about that I just talked about.
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Like, yeah, well, it ll give us some more breathing room at home.
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And I m like, will it really?
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I don t know that it will.
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I think, you know.
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Because you ll increase your spending.
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Exactly.
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Totally.
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It just doesn t.
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I mean, do you remember your first job out of college?
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You remember what your salary was?
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Your first offer?
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It was $13,500.
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Exactly.
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Mine was $28,500.
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You were better than me.
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No, no, no.
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It was just 20 years later.
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Totally.
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Yeah.
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My dad s first job was like $6,700 a year.
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And then you remember this.
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You think, OK, so I actually got my first raise because they did some salary adjustments before I started.
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So I got offered at $28,500.
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And then I get this letter like a month later said, hey, we ve adjusted starting salaries.
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You re actually going to start at $30,000 plus a company car.
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Oh, nice.
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1989 Chevrolet Celebrity, baby.
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Google that one.
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Google 1989 Chevy Celebrity and picture me driving around Southern Ohio calling on grocery stores.
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But here s what you thought.
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I thought, man, I m making $30,000.
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If I made $36,000, I d be rich.
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I mean, I wouldn t need to work.
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I mean, I d be loaded.
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You thought that, didn t you?
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And then you get that.
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Then it goes to $50,000.
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Or you always, you go back to that per month thing.
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Let s say it s $6,500 a month.
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You know, taxes take out $100, $400.
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Oh my gosh, I could buy an extra piano.
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Which I did.
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I bought a motorcycle, which was a really dumb thing to do.
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It s always where we go.
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Back to our point, like, what s the crap we don t need?
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So that s, I think, a really, really important thing to think about is, where does it lead you?
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And you think the next level is going to make some big difference in your life, and it just doesn t.
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Here s my perspective on it.
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And it probably comes more from where I am in my life.
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And you re much younger than me, so you re in the accumulation, and you re in the highly ambitious place.
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I m really not.
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I m in a little bit different place from an age standpoint.
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I have found that I don t necessarily want more.
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I want less.
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I want to be able to earn the same amount of money but working a whole lot fewer hours.
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And I ve had a lot of people come to me with that same thing.
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The whole more, more, more thing, the bloom is kind of off that rose, especially after 2020.
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And now people are saying, wait a minute.
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I ve adjusted my priorities.
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I want to go from 200 to 250, let s just say.
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But I don t want to work 25% more hours doing it.
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And this gets back to what you said, Brian, about the why, why are you interested in
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this big jump in income, and what are you willing to commit to it?
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Because if it s double the money but double the hours, you really going to want to commit to that?
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I hope not.
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That s terrible.
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So we ve got to figure out, where do we want to go financially?
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But then also, what are we willing to give up to get there?
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And I find that over the last six months or so, people are saying, I m not quite sure I m willing to give up as much home time, free time, golf time as I used to, because I ve readjusted my perspective.
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That s fantastic.
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And that can apply.
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And when you think, OK, so Bill Zewail,
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younger, older, whatever, and someone may listen to this and you re 24, and you re in that stage, or you re 30.
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What Bill s talking about can apply at any space in your own way.
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You can take inventory and go, you know what?
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I m 38.
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I got three little kids.
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I need to take the gas off a little bit here.
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I ve had lots of people that are, and most of them are in VP of sales roles,
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We did a reflection in a peer group we have last week about what did you learn from COVID.
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The whole experience, I m saying it s over.
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I know it s not.
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But what did you learn?
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Round the horn.
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I learned that I actually enjoy time with my family more than I thought.
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These are people that travel a lot.
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They re like, I don t like to travel anymore.
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It s good.
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You re like, I didn t do that.
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But when you re doing it, you re so numb.
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You don t even realize what you re missing.
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So that s a, I think that s a really good, really good thing to think about is what, what, what are you really after?
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So we have to just more money and working.
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Yeah.
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But doesn t the, I m putting my hand out here saying, I m getting the claw.
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Isn t it really, doesn t it really get back to the idea that you can create your life any way you want.
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It gets back to the personal agency, which we ve talked about on these episodes a lot, about you can do anything you want.
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You could say to your manager, look, I m going to work part-time.
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Can I get part-time salary so I can go pursue professional bowling?
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I mean, there s lots of different ways.
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Good employees are rare today.
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Yeah.
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So if you re a performer, you have a little bit more clout than if you re a crappy performer.
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For sure.
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So if you, and this kind of gets back to another thing that I was thinking, is sometimes you ve got to look at your income and say, well, this is my core income is the company I work for and my commission.
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But maybe there s a side hustle.
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Maybe there s some other things that you really want to do where you could generate $1,000, $2,000, $20,000 a month doing them.
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Don t forget about those things either.
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So we re in this world where we re
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it s up to, if it is to be, it is up to me.
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And we ve got to have the, we ve got to embrace that agency that we have to go do things in a different way.
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Because people are not going to want to lose great people, great talent, if you come back to them and say, I want to rework my system.
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Yes, no doubt.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Workers have a little more pull, a lot more pull than they did a year and a half ago.
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So let s get into the tactical side of this now.
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Let s say, OK, we ve reflected on that.
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We re very clear on what we want, what we don t want.
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Now we re into the mechanics of I m in a territory.
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I ve got a regional territory.
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I call in 1 and 1 half states, let s say, or something like that, some region.
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And I don t want to go be an enterprise person, get on a plane, go all over the country.
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Tactically, what do I do?
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If I want to take my income, let s say I m making $200 grand, I want to get to $300.
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Let s talk about some more tactical things to do.
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My first thought there on the tactical side, when I see a shift, so as a former winning contestant on the Price is Right, I love to use Price is Right examples.
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There s a game on the Price is Right called the Range Game.
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The Range Game on the Price is Right, which is a game show if you ve not watched it, is they have like some good, so there s like a
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a piano, and there s this little mechanism that goes up.
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It has a top and a bottom.
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And it raises up, and then you hit stop.
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And if the price of the product is in between the bottom and the top, you win it.
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So it s like a piano, and it starts off, and the range is like $1,000.
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It just creeps up.
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So let s say you stop it, and the range is between $4,200 and $3,200.
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Well, if that piano, boom.
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Well, our income does the same thing.
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And so I think you need to really take inventory of your top and bottom, performance-wise, so you can start to predict this.
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If you live in the United States, I don t know if they do this in the mail anymore, but they used to send you the green book with the Social Security Administration from them that had your income.
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They still do it.
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Right?
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They still do that?
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Yeah.
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So you can actually predict your income.
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Just put all those stats in the spreadsheet.
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You go, OK, my 2002, I made this 2003, 4 or 5.
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It would give you some numbers.
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And you d take a look at that, literally put it in a cell spreadsheet, do a graph line, and you ll see like, oh my gosh, maybe it s gone up a little bit, a lot.
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You can see the percentage of the slope of the curve.
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So that s one data point that ll give you.
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Then I think the trick is you ve got to change your range.
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That s what I like to teach with this, change the range.
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You ve been anchored to some comfort level for a long time.
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That s why you re making $200,000.
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You ve got to get that thing reset.
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I call it an anchor point when I m teaching this.
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So you ve got to pull it out of the wall at $200,000.
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You ve got to anchor it in at $250,000.
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Then you need to hover around $250,000.
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Then look at your behavior and your deals and say, what s going to make me do that?
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That s the first step is change that anchor point up, go from 200 to 250, then 250 to 300.
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You re going to still hover around the number always.
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You know what I mean?
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Like if someone s going to make a one point two million a year, they re not going to make 100 grand every month.
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A couple months are going to make 80.
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A couple months are going to make, yeah, just for easy math.
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So it s a range.
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It s the idea of increase your range.
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Yes.
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The bottom needs to come up.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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So the alarm goes off sooner.
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You talk about warning track a lot.
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We ve got a customer client who has lost 100 pounds and kept it off for like 10 years or something.
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Great story.
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But he told the group last week his weight loss story, which I ve never heard it before.
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And what was interesting was he changed his alarm bells.
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So the guy weighed like 300 pounds.
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So his alarm bell would go off when he weighed 330.
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And he d go, oh, I got to tighten it up.
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Now his alarm bell goes off when he weighs 200, because he likes to be at 190.
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You know what I mean?
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And so with income-wise, you re like, OK, I m never going to go below this commission level.
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Raise that up.
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Because right now, people are like, oh, I had kind of a bad month.
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I only made 1,500 commission.
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Well, make that a non-acceptable month.
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Make your alarm bell go off when you get below 3,000.
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And then you ll start to hover up.
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Change the range.
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I love that.
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And I think it s the ability to step back from your own income and look at it on the wall like it s somebody else s.
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It requires a detachment.
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That way you don t get into, well, my dad never made $250, so I m not.
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You ve got to get out of that garbage and say, OK.
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And the next thing I would say is, let s say you decide you want to go from $200 to $300 or whatever it is.
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My suggestion, and we do this as well with our clients, is, well, let s study that.
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Let s really get into the idea of, OK, well, what does that look like, 300 grand?
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Because it s easy to say, well, it s a 50% increase.
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I m just going to have to make an extra three calls a day.
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But it s probably more than that.
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Not more calls, but it s more than that.
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So the idea there is to.
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is to look and say, okay, what would have to happen?
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What would have to be different?
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Really study what it would look like for you to earn 400,000 a year from 200.
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Don t get too hung up on the emotion around it, but just say, maybe one thing I would have to do is get a VA.
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Yeah, right.
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Maybe one thing I would have to do is get super serious about LinkedIn posting.
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Maybe one thing I d have to do is run some ads.
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I mean, there s lots of different ways, like Amy Porterfield says, everything is figureoutable.
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So to go from 200 to 400, it s figureoutable, but not if you don t stop and really reflect and get some markers and draw on an easel and just really, and maybe your boss, your manager, your leader, a coach can help you with that.
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Yeah.
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But I think sometimes we operate on the surface.
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Well, let s go from 200 to 400.
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OK, great.
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OK, see you in 12 months.
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It s like, wait a minute.
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There s a whole lot more to it than that.
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And I don t think we roll up our sleeves and get dirty on what all might need to happen for us to get from 200 to 400.
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And then when you do, you come out of those meetings saying, well, hell, maybe I m guessing too low.
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Maybe it shouldn t be 400.
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I love the, so VA, for those of you who don t know, stands for virtual assistant.
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So that even, that little idea right there, of all the things that people that want to raise their income up should consider, because you hear when I say, why can t you?
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Why can t you?
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Well, I got to spend a half a day on salesforce.com.
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Well, I got to do all these proposals.
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And I do this all the time, and I know you do too.
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I go, why don t you hire a VA?
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Well, those are, I mean, it s expensive.
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Well, it s $15 an hour.
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And I m like, expensive?
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Like, what s expensive is you doing it.
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Exactly.
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You want to make $400, you know, that s $1,000 an hour.
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And you re doing this work, you pay someone $15 an hour.
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Well, but they would have to, I m like, they give me all these, I m like, yeah.
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Yeah, so you teach them how to do it, then give them the tools, and then they do it, and they do it for you.
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And then they re sending all your proposals for you.
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It s fantastic.
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So that s a great, great specific example that anyone listening to this, I guarantee, could use a virtual assistant, guaranteed.
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And it s also the idea that if I m going to go down that track, I have to come
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to the conclusion that my time is worth more than somebody else s time.
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So if you re a $200,000 a year person, you want to get to foreign, let s say your time s worth $500 an hour.
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Yes.
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Well, anything that you spend your time on, you re spending $500 an hour.
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Every time.
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And if you re going to have somebody do it for $15, well, they can t do it as well as I can.
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Well, I don t care if they re a millionth as effective at $15 an hour.
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It s still going to be better.
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It s a done deal.
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That s it.
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Full circle now, when Bill talked about detachment, that s what this is.
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If you want to go from 300 to 400 or 200 to 300, pick the number.
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You have to look at what s anchoring you down and learn to let it go.
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You have to get intrinsically OK with that first, and then you ve got to physically do it.
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So I ve got to let go.
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I ve got to let someone else do my proposals.
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I ve got to let someone else do my salesforce.com.
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I can t take on a deal less than $10,000, because you re going to get someone that loves you.
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Oh, I talked to Bill Kasky.
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He said, you re awesome.
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I want to work with you.
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And the guy s got a little two-person company.
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I got to say, hey, I really appreciate all those kudos.
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Can t help you.
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Got to say no.
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Let it go.
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So all of that enters into the arena of beliefs, is that I ve got to alter my belief set about who I am, what I deserve, who I work with.
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All the above.
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All those are beliefs, and those are hard.
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Those are not easy things to change.
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I mean, I struggle today with certain belief sets that I have.
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It s just, sometimes I ll get rid of them, and then boom, they re back.
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They just kind of sneak back into my life.
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So let us know if you like this topic.
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Again, as Brian said earlier, this came from one of the insider groups.
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We always ask them for some of the topics that they want to hear more about on our episodes, and this whole idea of income is really good.
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I think it s worth maybe doing another episode on.
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We ll post it on the LinkedIn site.
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So again, if you have not found a way to that, go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn, join our LinkedIn group.
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12,000 people, good conversations.
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Let us know whether you like this episode or not.
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We ll be posting something on it and we ll see you next time.
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Talk to you then, bye.