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Welcome to the Sell or Die podcast.
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I m your host, Jeffrey Gittimer.
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And I m your host, Jen Gittimer.
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Well, in this podcast, we re gonna help you attract more qualified, unbelievable, ready-to-buy clients.
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We re gonna help you build loyal relationships.
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And the one thing you re hoping for, close more deals.
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Let s get into it.
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It s time to sell or die.
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Diehards, you re in for a treat today.
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We have Debbie Allen, who used to be the shameless self-promoter, but someone finally shamed her.
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And now she s a positioning expert.
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And the goal of this podcast is to put you at the front of the line or top of mind.
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And if you can t benefit from that, you re on the wrong podcast.
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Deb, how are you doing?
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Oh, awesome.
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It s been a whirlwind in our speaking business.
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So Jeffrey, I ve known you a lot through the National Speakers Association.
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And, you know, as we ve gone through the progress of many things that shift the business, you know, more online and we re still, you know, we re still doing the same thing.
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It s communication, sales is communication, sales is service.
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And, you know, those of you, I m sure you just beat them up if they re thinking about rejection going out there.
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You know, me being a shameless self-promoter really happened because I m a true entrepreneur.
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Since I was 19, I ve never even applied for a job in my life.
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I have to spell it, you know, JLB, because it terrifies me.
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So, you know, but I had to learn the skills of sales and marketing to really be successful in business.
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And I had to learn how to promote myself.
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And that s kind of where it started, you know, building the speaking career of 27 years ago.
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So a salesperson is out there and they re really looking to be at the front of the line.
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They re looking to become known.
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They re looking to be top of mind.
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What are the things that you would offer to one of our diehards or all of our diehards that are trying their best to have the customer recognize them as either the leader or the person that they rely on the most to do business with?
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Well, everything in marketing, I believe is like be the best of the best.
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You want to be the best in anything you re doing in your career.
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You know, sales is your thing and you want to be that top leader in that.
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It s like, what sets you apart?
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What makes you unique to really set you apart?
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Um, we know it s all about relationship building and, and a lot of different things in sales is about, you know, how you re a better communicator, all of those things, but those are skills.
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It has to be like almost at your core level to where you really own that space of why you re an expert.
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If you ve been in sales for,
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10, 20, 30 years, I mean, you have ways of doing things and getting clients and building those relationships that you probably take for granted that you don t even realize that you re doing at a subconscious level.
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So I think it s a lot about where we were in the speaking business.
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It s like you learn to be a speaker and then you become successful at it and then you become a mentor and a consultant.
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And it s the same thing in sales or any career that you re in, helping other people get to that level.
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And that s why I loved your podcast title.
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Basically, it s like it fits perfectly in what everybody needs to do.
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They have to sell themselves.
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And first you start out with like, well, how do I sell myself if I don t even consider myself an expert?
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And so positioning really starts from how you label yourself, your own personal brand.
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I think it s really important to have a personal brand.
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And we re both real proof of that personal brand.
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Your little books, your brand is so strong with those sales books.
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It s like, you just see them and that s a Jeffrey Gimmel book.
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There s no question, right?
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And so the brand is there.
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And so that s part of your putting your message out there that really sticks.
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And then owning that space.
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And I think it comes from, again, that personal brand is like, you get that tagline,
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Hey, I claim it, the world s number one authority on expert positioning.
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Why?
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Because I ve been doing it a long time.
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I teach sales and I teach people that want to learn how to share their message as a speaker and then learn how to sell that.
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And again, most people are missing the boat just because they don t know that there s skills and strategies, but there s also about how the confidence level that you come across at a core level that it s like,
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I own this space.
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You know, I ve got years behind me.
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And every time I look at making an offer, Jeffrey, it s like, when I go into, you know, talking to communication, whether that s one-on-one or whether that s on a Zoom call or whether that s, you know, wherever that is, I m making a presentation that s going to be an offer.
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I call it an offer.
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I don t ever call it a pitch because it s almost to me, it s like opening up a door and saying, you have an opportunity to work with an expert here.
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like it is an opportunity.
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And if you are at that level, they should be able to be selecting you and you re selecting them because you get to that point.
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One of my best mentors growing up, learning about sales was Joe Girard, that sold the most cars, Guinness Book of World Records.
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I mean, I love the guy.
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It was like, he built the relationships, he did everything else.
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And there s
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thousands and thousands of other car salesmen, but why did he do things differently?
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He set himself apart and really became that true expert and then put systems in place to where what his talent, what his brilliance was, that s where he shined and that s where he was able to capture as much business as he did.
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I wanted to go back to something that you said that you named yourself because you have been doing it for a long time.
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I named myself King of Sales about 15 years ago.
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No one has ever challenged me, ever.
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And if you Google king of sales, I pop up.
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You positioned yourself, right?
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Yeah.
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I own in this space.
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So how did you go from shameless self promoter to the world s number one authority and expert positioning?
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Like, I want to know about your story.
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You re going to play like Robin to the Howard Stern.
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We ll get to that later, but jump in there, Jen.
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I knew that I had positioned myself so well as a shameless self-promoter, I could teach people that were really against the concept.
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Like, I don t like to promote myself.
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I don t like sales, right?
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They put themselves in a box and that s just in your mind.
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Get rid of that.
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That obviously doesn t work very well.
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So I was teaching that, you know, but I was getting a lot of speaking engagements.
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And then the world changed.
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I was 2008, you know, the financial crisis, there was no business left.
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And then just kind of like COVID, but I was like, okay, book solid, you know, high fee.
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And there s no, none of business, especially with the high level speakers.
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So I went international for three years.
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And again, promoted myself like crazy, like, hey, I positioned myself and got myself out there.
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And then going from that transition, it was just like, I m always reinventing myself as an entrepreneur.
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And I realized like, okay,
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I could say that I help people or sell them a package on business and brand strategy.
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And that s like, well, what is that?
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Right.
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You ve got to have that thing of saying, OK, based on the knowledge and experience I have, I actually have done this for hundreds of clients personally, even, you know, position them.
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That s what I love doing.
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I m brilliant at it.
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So if you re selling something, what are you brilliant at?
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What do you love that you can say I can help people?
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And so the only issue with that is, you know, we re all so close to our own business.
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We don t see it.
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So when the light bulb came on,
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I wrote a book called The Highly Paid Expert and that became a workshop and that became consulting, ran that workshop live for 10 years, was getting most of my clients from that and then just shifted it.
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It s really people learning how to just even the basic level of just understanding that how do you swim in the sea of sameness?
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You ve got to get out of that sea and you ve got to find a place to stand out at the top.
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all of us that want to be good at anything, we want to be at the top.
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And that s that again, that s positioning.
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And so I just continued to position myself.
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And then I realized I can, I could do that for other people.
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And then their business would just go, you know, very quickly because, you know, the first thing you do when you position is go find the domains, figure out the name and then build the brand and then build from there.
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What social media do you use more than others?
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I m still into Facebook a lot because I don t really like social media as far as like, I have to do it, I do it, you know, kind of thing.
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But LinkedIn is definitely great for business people, I think.
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And I m starting to dabble in TikTok because it s like, why am I watching if I m not on there?
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Oh, I m totally following you on TikTok now.
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I love that.
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It s going to start heating up, you know?
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And you know what?
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You have your dog with you, Jen.
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It s like, that s what I m going to do.
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Like, what is my hook on TikTok?
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I got to have a dog, even though I m talking about speaking and sales and whatever else.
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But speaking is going to be my jam on there.
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Yeah.
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So my little dog, Ruby, will be my hook.
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We ll see how that goes.
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So you had an experience on Howard Stern that was remarkable.
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Why don t you talk about that for just a little bit?
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Yeah, segue right into the hook, right?
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It was so remarkable that it was four and a half minutes that really changed my life.
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I was telling stories about it and still telling stories about it to this day.
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When that book came out, Confessions of Shameless Self-Promoters, that s back when Steve Harrison was doing a radio TV interview report and you would take on an ad back then and the radio shows would book you.
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And I hadn t done hardly any radio shows.
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So I m like, I m saying yes to everything.
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There s like five listeners, you know, that s a little podunk town.
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And so then I get a call one day and it s Casey Armstrong.
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And he s like, it s Casey Armstrong from the Howard Stern Show.
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You know, it s like, right.
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What friend is playing a joke with me?
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Right.
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And he s like, no, no, we, we, you know, Howard s a little shameless and we thought you d be an interesting guest on the show.
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So of course I say, yes, it s going to be a story.
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Right.
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And then I hire a coach for everything.
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Like, you know, how did I get good at sales?
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How did I get good at marketing?
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How did I become a good,
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everything I ve hired a coach, a consultant, a mentor for.
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And so one of the gentlemen I interviewed, his name is Bill Goss.
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He used to be part of NSA.
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He wrote a book called the 30.
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He survived 30 near death experiences like the luckiest unlucky man alive.
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And he is the only person I knew ever been on Howard Stern.
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So I call up Bill and I m like, you have to be my coach.
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You have to help me through this.
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This is like, this should be called get the guest.
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This is not a radio show.
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This is not Oprah s book of the month club.
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And he s like, yeah, really it is not.
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And if it goes more than five minutes, it is going to go in another direction.
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You know, it s not going to be good.
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So you want less than five minutes.
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Get off there.
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whatever.
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And so I had, you know, a couple months before I was going to be on the show and I didn t have to go to the studio.
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I could do it on the phone, which was good.
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I got to call in.
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And so East Coast time, I was on Pacific Coast time at the time.
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So it s getting up very early in the morning.
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And then, you know, how is this going to come down?
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It really was get the guests because there s Robin on there.
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There s another producer on there.
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They re trying to find something that s controversy.
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So I already knew where he was going to go with this because I knew he doesn t even look at the notes.
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I spent cases of books to the studio numerous times.
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They all got lost.
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Well, they were all stolen.
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So obviously they love the title at the studio, but I don t think Howard ever read it.
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So anyways, he goes to the title of the ad they wrote.
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And somebody told me, you re a marketer, but don t change the ad title.
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So the ad title was, this guest can make anybody shamelessly famous.
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He goes, it says here, you can make anybody shamelessly famous.
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I don t even know.
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I ve never even heard of you before.
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I m like, Howard, I m on your show, aren t I?
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And it s kind of like crickets.
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Yeah.
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And then he s like, well, I m not shameless.
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These other DJs have mugs and t-shirts and all these things that just get out there and push themselves on everybody.
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I m like, no, you don t.
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But Howard, you re shamelessly a fabulous marketer, okay?
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I will tell you.
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So I knew what I had to do.
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I had to build up his ego and it s like you just hear his head like, right?
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And then I had to slap him down.
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It s like, I wouldn t do that to you guys.
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I d be like, wow, she was really bitchy on that show.
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But Howard, you have to be, right?
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And so he says that and I said, well, Howard, I saw your movie Private Parts and you were getting fired from one job after the next and you never gave up.
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And I said, Howard, I really admire that.
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You believed in what your mission was, what your goal was.
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You know, even though a lot of people don t believe in what you do, it s like, I respect that.
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You are a true shameless marketer and that s why you had the success that you have.
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And so then, you know, there s the buildup.
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And then I go, but I do not respect how you degrade women.
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And, you know, you promote other things.
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And I even said like drunken midgets because of the day before he had used those words, midgets, drunk men, all, you know, the stuff that he says.
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Right.
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So I had to like, I was listening, I was doing my homework.
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And then I, and when I told him he didn t respect women, it was like crickets.
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And then Robin jumps in and Robin s starting to beat me up because they had been beating her up like a good hour before I got on there.
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And
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And now he just came to my defense and he s like, hey, well, I think she s got something going here.
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Everybody s got to be shameless.
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I mean, they got to promote themselves.
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I think, you know, this is something really cool.
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And he goes, I don t promote books like Oprah s book of the month club.
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Like he said that he goes, but I m going to promote this book.
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I m really going to promote this book.
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Everybody needs to go out there and get it.
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And then he asked me some more funny stories from the book and he was laughing and he was having a good time.
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And then I look at the clock and it s like four and a half minutes.
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I m like, we need to wrap this up.
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How do I wrap this up?
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I don t know how I did, but I was like, we just kind of got off the call before the five minutes.
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And what happened next was amazing because I had a few zingers.
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I think he was done being beat up because I beat him up pretty good.
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And Robin stopped talking and so did the producer.
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So I m like, oh, I think I won and that s good.
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And so he did the book promotion and it went to Amazon bestseller in one hour.
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I just couldn t believe it.
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The power of the media, even when it s something crazy.
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So that s my survival.
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That s incredible.
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Was it audio only?
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It was.
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I have a crazy question.
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You said it was really early Pacific time.
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Did you like do it in your PJs just because you could?
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Oh, no.
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I was four o clock.
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I was dressed in my my most badass outfit.
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OK, just curious.
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Attitude.
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Oh, yeah.
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That always tells me something about someone, you know?
Yeah.
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Bring it.
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Did it go to number one overall or did it go to
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number one in your category.
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It was a number one, like in a business marketing category, like the top business marketing category.
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And it had a big hit once it went like in New York.
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And then when it got, um, like in, on the West coast and I was like another big spike.
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That s before I knew anything, Jeffrey about bestselling books, anything.
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This was like second book I ever wrote.
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I didn t know anything about that stuff.
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Oh, that s so cool.
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That s totally cool.
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Yeah.
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I have always admired Howard because she s so blunt.
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Yeah.
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Says it like it is.
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Well, I kind of do, too.
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So maybe that s why we got along.
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Four and a half minutes.
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And I always say, I kept my clothes on and professionalism intact.
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That was the most important thing.
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And I had a story.
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That s right.
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That s right.
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Four and a half minutes.
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I love it.
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Diehard, you re probably not going to get on the Howard Stern Show, but there s a strategy behind what Debbie did.
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And what she did was she understood how to build them up.
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She understood how to take them down a little bit.
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And she understood that she was on a time bomb.
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And if you understand those three things, when you re trying to position yourself, you have a better shot of being remembered.
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You re not going to be remembered if you drone on and on and somebody wants to get rid of you, number one.
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Number two, you are going to be remembered if you re impactful in your dialogue.
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Your dialogue has to be direct, it has to have a little bit of fun to it, and you can put yourself in a winning position by following Debbie s instructions.
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She s not going to get you on The Howard Stern Show, but she can help you get to the number one position in your world, which is the only world that really matters for you, correct?
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Yeah, and I think one of the rules of shameless self-promotion is having your own style.
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And so in sales, we have to match other people s style.
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So to be successful on that show, I had to match his style.
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I mean, it wouldn t be different for somebody else doing your homework, you know, and then if a conversation is going south, you know, you kind of have to match people s, you know,
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learning body language.
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I mean, if you do the sales from your core values, it s like you just realize people s core values.
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I mean, you ve built business relationships so long, it s like you pick up on people s energy and you know where to take it.
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And here s the thing, you still have to stay true to yourself.
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Always stay true to yourself because nobody should be putting you down in a place where they re making you say things or do things that really don t fit your core values in sales.
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or taking you a place because you wanted that one sale because you wanted to get that one big hit, you know, and it s it s more about just the money.
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I mean, to me, it s like I will always keep my value there and I was always keep my respect from other people.
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I mean, that s just really important.
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You know, you don t sell your soul, basically.
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So the challenge, Die Hard, is to not conform.
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Nonconformist.
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If you re a conformist, you re never going to be in the number one position.
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You ll be like a sheep.
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Right.
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You ve got to be you ve got to be the one that s outspoken.
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You ve got to be the one that s edgy.
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You ve got to be the one that does things different than everybody else.
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You know, maybe your style is edgy and maybe your style is very systemized.
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Whatever works for you.
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It s got to be something that s different than everybody else.
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You never follow everybody.
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You ve got to create your own path.
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And especially in sales and relationships, because it s better.
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Yeah, definitely.
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Be perceived as better.
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And be perceived as real.
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I m sorry, go ahead, Jen.
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No, I m just thinking like, do you think that most salespeople think about their own positioning as much as they should?
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Not at all.
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Most of them don t have, they just think, I m just, you know, they re a salesperson, but they re a service person that creates opportunities for people.
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That s what a salesperson is.
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And we ll always need them.
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because here s a good example.
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We just went out and bought like really expensive patio furniture.
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And so we went to three places in one day and there s completely different experiences.
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One was like, you know, he s very, very nice.
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You know, he s there, but he s not too pushy.
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The next experience, totally like in your face, like, oh, trying to be so nice.
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It was just like so fakey.
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Like, I just wanted to like, whoa, I couldn t stand it.
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I m like, get me away from this girl.
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You know, my brother, and then my husband said, when we get in the car, it s like, oh my God, I d never buy anything from her.
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Then we ended up going to another location, same company.
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And this gentleman was just so easy to talk to.
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And it was like a friend, like he s telling us about his family.
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And it was like, I wanted to be part of a family with him.
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By the time we just threw the credit card out there so fast, like it was the fastest decision ever made.
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But the bad salespeople got us ready for the guy that really was like, he knew his stuff.
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He made the connections, he did everything and made it easy for us.
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And he picked up on the clues that we were buyers.
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And it happened to be in Phoenix, Arizona, when you ve been coming out of this heat on a cool little rainy day, like, oh man, we re hot buyers today.
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able to sit on our patio after months.
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It s just amazing how different styles people have.
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And companies often teach, in this particular company I know, they teach a system, very structured.
SPEAKER_02
And some people go too extreme with that.
SPEAKER_02
And it s so fake and phony because they re not themselves.
SPEAKER_02
They don t feel comfortable.
SPEAKER_02
And sometimes the best salespeople are just really good at having a conversation, listening, know where to lead it, having the answers.
SPEAKER_00
If they don t have the answers, they go find it.
SPEAKER_00
It s not through stages.
SPEAKER_00
It s actually just having a conversation.
SPEAKER_00
It s also having balls.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, because my my buddy Glenn and I visited yesterday and the first thing out of his mouth was a story about the flight attendant that he was on this flight with who was funny as hell funniest guy I d ever heard cracking jokes got applause from the audience.
SPEAKER_03
That takes guts, because when you step outside, so I said, Glenn, how many flights have you been on?
SPEAKER_03
Oh, hundreds.
SPEAKER_03
I said, how many flight attendants do you remember?
SPEAKER_03
One.
SPEAKER_03
And so that guy s already positioned.
SPEAKER_03
So he writes to Americans, say, hey, I d like to write an article about this guy.
SPEAKER_03
Oh, we don t do that.
SPEAKER_03
OK, so I said, Glenn, Google his first name, and then American Airlines, and then Charlotte, and top of the list.
SPEAKER_03
So now Glenn is going to interview this guy in spite of American and put him at the top of the profile.
SPEAKER_03
We re going to not name the company, not name the airline.
SPEAKER_03
You know, fuck them, but they already blew their chance.
SPEAKER_03
Right.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
But you ve got to find a way.
SPEAKER_02
Here s the thing.
SPEAKER_02
I would say if I had to think about stuff, when you say grow, grow a set of them, right, as girls can grow them too.
SPEAKER_02
And so, you know, I ve been putting on my own events for so long, like, you know, heck with that, like trying to sell somebody on a stage, like I ll put my own on a stage, you know, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02
Right.
SPEAKER_02
So I, that was years ago.
SPEAKER_02
And so then, you know, at your event, you re selling, you got to sell, otherwise, you don t make a money at your event.
SPEAKER_02
And so, um, I have this gentleman who is invited by another friend.
SPEAKER_02
He s sitting in the front row.
SPEAKER_02
He s VIP.
SPEAKER_02
He s a multimillionaire.
SPEAKER_02
He s got multiple, um, tattoo, gorgeous.
SPEAKER_02
They re not, they re like studios.
SPEAKER_02
Right.
SPEAKER_02
Um, and, and he s very, very, very successful.
SPEAKER_02
but he wrote a book called The Tattoo Millionaire.
SPEAKER_02
Great book, his first book, I got him in the second book, I got him into Entrepreneur Magazine, even better book, right?
SPEAKER_02
And it was just because I got in, I got him in.
SPEAKER_02
But he s sitting there in that front row and through this whole thing, I m almost on like an end of day two, he hasn t invested yet.
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, he needs me because what does he want?
SPEAKER_02
Like the whole thing, he s been hanging on every word.
SPEAKER_02
It s like, he needs to be a speaker to sell the book.
SPEAKER_02
He wants to be a consultant just because he s giving his time away for free.
SPEAKER_02
And so I call him out like the morning of day three.
SPEAKER_02
I totally call him out, sitting in the front.
SPEAKER_02
And I said, hey, Sean, how come you haven t invested yet?
SPEAKER_02
I haven t seen you in the back of the room signing up for my program.
SPEAKER_02
I said, you need to be a VIP client.
SPEAKER_02
You need to learn all this.
SPEAKER_02
Like, you know, you re already here for this.
SPEAKER_02
What you spent all this time writing this book.
SPEAKER_02
He goes, well, I ve never worked with a mentor before in my whole life.
SPEAKER_02
I never worked, especially, I haven t had more with a woman.
SPEAKER_02
because I kept calling him out in front of the entire audience.
SPEAKER_02
There s hundreds of people there, right?
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, I don t know what gave me, I was like, I wanted him as a client.
SPEAKER_00
We re born with them and you just can t see him.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02
So I knew I wanted him as a client because I knew how much I could help him and money wasn t an issue and time wasn t going to be an issue because he really needed to do it.
SPEAKER_02
He wrote the book, right?
SPEAKER_02
So calling him out on it, right?
SPEAKER_02
And he s like, well, yeah, but I was going to talk to my wife about it.
SPEAKER_02
And then, you know, yeah, I m thinking about it.
SPEAKER_02
And he told me I ve never worked with anybody, never worked with a woman, whatever.
SPEAKER_02
I m like, it doesn t matter.
SPEAKER_02
If you work with anybody, if a woman, man, whatever, I have all the experience.
SPEAKER_02
I have everything you need.
SPEAKER_02
Why would you want to even think about it?
SPEAKER_02
Why would you not want to work with somebody?
SPEAKER_02
You re smart enough that you want to go fast on this.
SPEAKER_02
You don t have time to mess around.
SPEAKER_02
And why are you speaking for free?
SPEAKER_02
And why are you giving consulting away when you re a multimillionaire?
SPEAKER_02
Like, that s crazy.
SPEAKER_02
Why do you have to ask your wife?
SPEAKER_02
Why do you have to ask your wife?
SPEAKER_02
That s everybody s excuse.
SPEAKER_02
Everybody s like, that s a lame excuse.
SPEAKER_02
We know that, right?
SPEAKER_02
Bring that in.
SPEAKER_02
Sometimes it comes out of my mouth.
SPEAKER_02
I ask my husband, like, I don t ever ask him, right?
SPEAKER_02
I just tell them, hey, I bought this thing.
SPEAKER_00
Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02
But it s an out.
SPEAKER_02
It s those noncommittal buyers always say.
SPEAKER_02
So anyway, what happened is he bought the whole program and then his wife was jealous because she wanted to learn it too.
SPEAKER_02
So she bought it.
SPEAKER_02
So I had a double.
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s so cool.
SPEAKER_01
That is so cool.
SPEAKER_02
But I would never have done it if I didn t, if I didn t, you know, just right in front of the audience, like do it, shame him in Dubai.
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
SPEAKER_03
Is there anything else that you at the top of mind for you that when you re talking about positioning yourself as an expert or as the chosen one that we haven t talked about that we could talk to the diehards that are listening today and help them get to the front of the line?
SPEAKER_02
Well, the very first thing I do is, you know, is strategy, you know, where you re thinking about a name or you re thinking about a personal tagline, like just start with that.
SPEAKER_02
Right.
SPEAKER_02
And then you ve got to own that space.
SPEAKER_02
So if you re thinking of like, how could I name myself?
SPEAKER_02
Like, you know, whatever that s going to be.
SPEAKER_02
And then you got to go online and Google and your search engines and go find, you know, who s searching for that.
SPEAKER_02
Is that somebody they re looking for that kind of expert?
SPEAKER_02
Are they typing that in?
SPEAKER_02
So you got to see how many people, so there s a strategy.
SPEAKER_02
So if they re looking for that.
SPEAKER_02
Is the domain name available?
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that is the domain.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, so own it so that you can be Googleable.
SPEAKER_02
So, you know, later on, if you want to write a book on it, or you want to do a podcast on it, or you want to do whatever, you have articles written in major magazines, major publications, you re showing up, you re Googleable.
SPEAKER_02
But you have to have the domains which are keyword rich, and then you have to follow that path.
SPEAKER_02
That s the first thing.
SPEAKER_02
Think of it, come up with the idea.
SPEAKER_02
know that you re positioned that, you know, you don t have a lot of competition when you re looking for those keywords and then buy those keywords as a domain.
SPEAKER_02
That s step number one.
SPEAKER_02
And then build upon it from there, wherever you want to take that.
SPEAKER_02
Now, expanding your expertise, again, through books, articles, it s easy to get articles written in Entrepreneur Magazine or any magazine that you see, like you pick up, like I picked up Entrepreneur and I would look at it all the time and go, it really should be called Franchise Magazine, but that s my
SPEAKER_02
my clientele for speaking anyway, so it makes sense, right?
SPEAKER_02
And I look at that and I go, oh my gosh, look at these books they got here.
SPEAKER_02
How do you get a book publisher?
SPEAKER_02
I ve been an entrepreneur my whole life.
SPEAKER_02
They d be like my dream publisher.
SPEAKER_02
And I manifest it.
SPEAKER_02
And then I meet somebody that had a book published by them and he referred me.
SPEAKER_02
I was like, so
SPEAKER_02
freaking easy.
SPEAKER_02
You know, you re just going to be looking.
SPEAKER_02
Once you position yourself, it s almost like the gates open and you find a lot more opportunities and people start finding you.
SPEAKER_02
And then when you put yourself out there to be on, you know, a famous podcast like this or something, you re going, oh, you re that person, right here.
SPEAKER_02
You re that you re the number one of this or, you know, however you want to word it.
SPEAKER_03
So female out there, die hard, grow balls and then use them.
SPEAKER_03
And I think that is the whole key.
SPEAKER_03
You can grow them.
SPEAKER_03
If you don t use them, what do you got them for?
SPEAKER_03
That s right.
SPEAKER_01
That s right.
SPEAKER_01
And while you re at it, go get Debbie s book, The Highly Paid Expert.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s the other one, The Highly Paid Expert.
SPEAKER_02
If you want to build it as a business, if you want to make money from your expertise, that s really monetizing at multiple income streams.
SPEAKER_02
The newest book, The Expert Positioning.
SPEAKER_00
Oh, Expert Positioning.
SPEAKER_02
That s more like the basic.
SPEAKER_02
I realized when I wrote the other one, there s people that want to be, you know, true experts and sell coaching programs and courses and everything else.
SPEAKER_02
The Expert Positioning is a good book for people like your sales people like yourself.
SPEAKER_02
Well, just get them both.
SPEAKER_02
Easy.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, we just get them both.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, just add them both to cart.
SPEAKER_02
The publisher makes money, but you make money because it s giving you the information.
SPEAKER_02
It s just like, here it is.
SPEAKER_02
I just nail it all down for you.
SPEAKER_02
So it s really, really cool.
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
Debbie, where should they go to connect with you and find out more?
SPEAKER_02
They can go to my website at Debbie Allen.com, just like the dancer, right?
SPEAKER_02
It s a good name too, like fame.
SPEAKER_02
You got it right there.
SPEAKER_02
It s like Debbie Allen.
SPEAKER_02
We ll put it in the show notes.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
And so go there.
SPEAKER_02
And then, you know, you want to learn about all the classes.
SPEAKER_02
I have a lot of good online classes that I give for free, and you can sign up for those, whatever you re interested in.
SPEAKER_02
I always do classes on expert positioning.
SPEAKER_02
The other place I want them to go to for a free gift, listening to the show, go to expertpositioningsuccess.com.
SPEAKER_02
And there s a 30-minute video, so it s easy to watch.
SPEAKER_02
And that actually shows you how you can make money from your expertise.
SPEAKER_02
share it with other people.
SPEAKER_02
Because I believe that if you ve been doing something for a long time, it s not like you don t have to keep doing it, just put on another hat, now make money as a consultant doing what you re doing.
SPEAKER_02
That s really how I position myself in doing that.
SPEAKER_02
And then there s an action plan and a business plan, all that you can download absolutely for free, $200 value for your listeners.
SPEAKER_02
So that s always good stuff.
SPEAKER_00
That is amazing.
SPEAKER_00
We will put that in the show notes as well.
SPEAKER_00
Thank you for that.
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02
Totally.
SPEAKER_00
This entire episode has been a gift.
SPEAKER_00
It s been amazing.
SPEAKER_00
Thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_02
See, I love to be on a show like that.
SPEAKER_02
You could just say, you know, like it is.
SPEAKER_02
And that s why, you know, and actually a friend of mine that s a joint venture partner of mine referred me to your show.
SPEAKER_02
I was like, oh, oh my gosh, I d love to be on that show because I know I know that you have an edge, Jeffrey.
SPEAKER_02
And I was really excited to meet you, Jen.
SPEAKER_02
So I think that people you have to be you have to be
SPEAKER_00
yourself.
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s what the people listen to these podcasts for you.
SPEAKER_02
You re going to learn to listen to this podcast and say these people are phony.
SPEAKER_02
There s no way.
SPEAKER_00
Authenticity, say it like it is.
SPEAKER_00
No BS, no fluff.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, get out there and do it.
SPEAKER_00
Well, you know, and that s for me, it comes from
SPEAKER_00
you know, that entrepreneurial spirit, I became more of a person that was really good at marketing.
SPEAKER_00
I love, love, love marketing.
SPEAKER_00
Like it s a game to me.
SPEAKER_00
And so I chose to take the marketing path to be an expert in that first.
SPEAKER_00
And then I realized that if I was a really good marketer, I wouldn t have to sell as well as much.
SPEAKER_00
And then when I got really good at selling, like learning the skills of that and hiring the best of the best, it s like, oh my gosh, I love it.
SPEAKER_00
Cause when I just, when I make an offer,
SPEAKER_00
It s just like, it s just really, I felt like it s just opening up this door.
SPEAKER_00
And I just, you know, I just know how I can help people and make sure that it s the right fit for all of us.
SPEAKER_00
And then, then we go because, you know, in anything, if you re coachable and you want to learn, you know, you can, you can, you can listen to your word though.
SPEAKER_00
You ve got to be coachable.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but Diehard, that s how your sales should feel like.
SPEAKER_01
Go back, rewind, listen to that again, because that was gold.
SPEAKER_01
Every offer that you make should feel so aligned like that, that you re excited to make the offer.
SPEAKER_00
If it doesn t, it s going to be pushy.
SPEAKER_00
It s going to be intrusive.
SPEAKER_00
It s going to be all about you and your numbers, you know, and that gets in your way.
SPEAKER_00
And it has always gotten my way when I first was doing sales, because I put numbers in my head and a big goal in my head before putting people first.
SPEAKER_00
And then when I got it all aligned, it was just like, it s just be yourself, be yourself and know that you can make a difference.
SPEAKER_02
If you want to know if you re good or not, just listen to yourself.
SPEAKER_02
You re going to know in two seconds whether you sucked or not.
SPEAKER_02
And if you say this sucks, that was you.
SPEAKER_02
So you may want to work on that as part of your package to be positioned as number one.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
That was Howard calling again.
SPEAKER_00
He wanted me back on the show.
SPEAKER_00
Sorry, I didn t.
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s time to wrap.
SPEAKER_01
See you next time, Diehard.
SPEAKER_01
OK, we had fun.
SPEAKER_00
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01
This is awesome.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it was very good to let me know.
SPEAKER_00
And it s out there.
SPEAKER_00
I ll share it to my peeps.
SPEAKER_00
So everybody s got to be listening to you guys and learn what you have to share.
SPEAKER_00
So no BS.
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
SPEAKER_00
Thanks so much.
SPEAKER_00
Diehards, I m Jeffrey Gittimer.
SPEAKER_01
And I m Jen Gittimer.
SPEAKER_02
And I m challenging you to get out there and position yourself as number one, even if your ass falls off.
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for listening to the show.
SPEAKER_01
Don t forget to like, share.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, share with both your friends.
SPEAKER_01
And subscribe to the podcast.
SPEAKER_02
And remember, we have a free 22-day sales challenge.
SPEAKER_02
Just go to gutermann.com slash sales challenge to start you on your way.