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Hey, if you re like most sellers, referrals account for a large percentage of your results.
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But the process can be clunky.
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Never know quite when to ask or how.
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Well, in May s Insider Training, we ll go deep into a referral strategy you can use that generates more discussions by getting introduced to the right people.
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If you re not an insider yet, what the heck are you waiting for?
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Tuition is not a secret.
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$47 a month, and you won t want to miss this session on referrals.
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Go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider to find out more.
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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, I discuss some really unique legislation being brought to our US Congress.
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We give our partner from outreach a new stage name.
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You ll have to tune in to see what that is.
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And we talk in this episode about how to be a great forecaster.
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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We want to thank you, as we do every week.
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We re actually together today, not on some kind of weird Zoom virtual meeting.
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We re together in the studio.
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And we want to thank you for listening each and every week.
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We have tens of thousands of people who do so.
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We have a great following on LinkedIn.
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So if you have not joined us there, go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn.
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That will take you right to the group.
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Yes.
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And don t forget about the Insider, which meets the first Friday of every month.
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SPEAKER_01
Correct.
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Anything we need to know, Bill, coming up for May s Insider yet?
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Or are we top secret there?
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No, I ll give it to you next week.
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We had a really good session for April.
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And I also did some coaching.
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I offered 15-minute slots for about a dozen people.
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And it was really good to hear.
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hear what they re getting out of the program.
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So if you haven t checked out Insider yet, we continue to innovate, try new things.
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Go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider.
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It meets once a month for 75 minutes.
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And it s a really good chance to work on yourself and work on your business.
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Everybody that listens to this podcast should be an insider.
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And I m not going to stop saying that until 125,000 of you are in there.
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We re not quite there yet, but we re getting close.
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That s what I believe.
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That s what I believe.
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High value.
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programs available on the Earth for salespeople.
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We re also doing a program with our friends at Outreach on May the 4th.
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I m not going to say it this time.
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May the 4th is when our program is.
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And we re going to be talking about the sales execution gap.
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We re really excited.
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You can go to our website, advancedlinkpodcast.com slash outreach.
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And there s a registration page.
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We ll be talking more about that.
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We ve been rolling down our version of the sales execution gap.
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We re going to talk about forecasting here in a minute.
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Yeah, we ll also put the link in the show notes, too.
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It s a complimentary live event recording.
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And Brian and I are going to be hosting.
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Scott Barker from Outreach is going to be there.
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So it should be very, I mean, if you have a VP of sales or a CEO who cares about these things as it relates to forecasting and pipeline management, things like that, they need to be on it.
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I think that would count as every, I hope it does.
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Yeah.
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Wouldn t you think?
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Every CRO and VP of sales at some point has a sales execution gap.
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Maybe a little.
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Maybe they re really good, but I don t know.
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So this is, I don t know, this is a little thing I saw in the news, Bill.
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And I m not sure how I feel about this.
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So this is a tragic event that occurred.
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And unfortunately, a family from Indianapolis
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passed away, members of a family in a duck boat accident in Missouri.
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Remember this?
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Captain takes about, they have a storm.
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Have you been on a duck boat before?
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No, but I saw it.
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Super popular in Boston.
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It s like the duck boat.
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Go on the duck boat tour, duck boat tour.
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And duck boats have been operating across the country for a really long time.
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If you read the history there, I think from back in World War II,
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They use these to transport troops around.
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Now they use them as tourist things.
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And they basically have a boat with wheels.
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So it goes driving down the road.
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And it s really fun.
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You drive into the lake or the ocean or whatever.
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And it s really, really cool.
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And then this tragedy happens.
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And I m always interested when politicians get a hold of a tragedy and what they do.
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And sometimes I almost feel like this can be patronizing to those who have lost loved ones in a thing.
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But I don t know.
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But it s also a statistical thing.
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I m like, OK.
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But there is, I don t know if you know this, in the US House, the Duck Boat Safety Improvement Act.
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is in the House of Representatives.
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I did not know that.
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Well, you do now.
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So to just make stronger, make for stronger crew safety training, putting underwater LED lights, more severe weather alert monitoring.
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And I just wonder sometimes when we have something, this is a really bad tragedy.
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I m not trying to make light of that.
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But we have so many things go on with our politicians, like the Duck Boat Safety Act.
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When does this all start and stop?
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You know what I mean?
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Like if I slip in the kitchen, or whatever, and I drop an iron skillet on my head,
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and get concussed.
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Do we come up with the Iron Skillet Safety Act?
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We need to put grip handles on all iron skillets.
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Yes.
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Isn t there a limit to this at some point?
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I don t know.
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I m not trying to make light of the tragedy.
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It s not the point.
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The point is, you know, the Duck Boat Safety Act.
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I m like, OK, I feel awful for the people.
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And I m like, OK, but in the grand scheme of life.
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But in the grand scheme of 350 million
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Right things we all you know is that good time energy effort and that sort of thing is certainly don t want people getting hurt or Well forbid having a tragedy like that, but I don t know I just it just caught me the duck boat safety act seemed like Legislation that might have been down the priority grid a minute.
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I don t know
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Well, but think about, I totally agree with you, and dare not to go too deep into this, because it can get us in trouble, but I mean, the same thing goes for taking off your shoes because of one dude who was trying to ignite his soul in a plane, and he wasn t even successful.
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Nobody even got hurt or died in that, and we suddenly have a $7 trillion TSA because of that.
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So we are, we are so reactive.
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And I ve been reading a lot lately about how we are petrified of illnesses and viruses and death and, and things and unsafe things.
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We are just, there s a, there s actually a study of it.
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There s a word for a noun that describes
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this and we re just petrified of stuff.
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Yes.
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And you know what?
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I m sure if there was a lot of problems on duck boats, if there d been a series of these, but I don t think there have.
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I don t, not to my knowledge of this where I m maybe uninformed.
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It just caught me off guard a little bit when I saw the duck boat safety act as a piece of legislation that we re working on right now in 2022 with lots of other things occurring.
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Um,
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If that s the biggest problem we ve got right now, we need to solve it for sure, for sure.
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But for now, and I went on a duck boat last year with my kid in Boston.
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It was really fun.
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It was great, and I felt very safe.
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So I don t know what s going on there.
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Well, I mean, the same thing happened to the
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daylight savings bill.
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They were all celebrating that we had finally come to agreement and we re going to send it over to the Senate.
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We re going to have one time.
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We re not going to all change times.
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And I thought, you know, I agree with that.
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To me, it should be left up to the states, but that s OK.
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But with all the stuff going on in the world, that s what they focused on.
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You know, there s a war, there s a possible World War III, and there s nuclear and that, and there s viruses.
0
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Spent $100 to gas up the other day.
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$80 trillion in debt.
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We re going to spend a week on daylight savings.
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So we save a little hour s sleep.
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So we re a little less grumpy in May.
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SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
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Right?
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Oh my gosh.
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All right.
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We got to get to it.
0
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OK, let s see.
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We re talking today about forecasting.
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Loaded subject.
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Super big problem.
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Something that most CROs and VPs of sales, those of you who are listening, struggle with this.
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It s interesting how we see this kind of a loop, at least I do, I ll speak for myself, where
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Sales VPs and CROs are all over the sales teams about forecasting.
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Got to get your forecast right.
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They plant it onto the sales team.
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The sales team does their best when they re not.
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And then the VP of sales takes what the sales team gives them, reports it to the CEO or board of directors.
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And if it s not, then the CRO catches crap or VP of sales catches crap.
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When it s not right, and it goes back down.
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It s like this.
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It s a whole drama.
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It is.
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It s so funny, isn t it?
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It is a whole drama.
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Yes.
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And it s circular.
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A lot of it s theater.
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It s theater, I know.
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But a lot of it is the company wants to know what s in the pipeline and what s the forecast look like.
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So we re going to talk about just our take on sales forecasting.
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I figured when he gave us your take.
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Sorry, I did.
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I did.
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And I loved you said theatrical, because it s kind of what it is, isn t it?
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We know our friends at Outreach, who we re doing this program with, I think they use AI and program and computers to figure this stuff out.
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Still, there s a human on the other end of it.
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So Bill and I are going to talk about the human side of this.
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We re going to talk about the human side.
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Then on May 4th, Outreach will talk a little bit more about the technology and the information side, which I think you need both.
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I don t think today it s one or the other.
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I think it s both.
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And as you were talking about that, you know, there s a lot of companies, and I know you work with
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some of these companies, I don t so much, who are professional sales organizations, where they have chief revenue officers, and they have people forecasting VPs and stuff like that.
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SPEAKER_00
I work with a lot of companies who don t have that.
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SPEAKER_00
They might have a VP of sales, and they have 5, 10, 15, 100 salespeople, but they aren t that sophisticated to have CROs and all that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so, but I think the same thing applies.
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SPEAKER_00
Even if you re a CPA firm or an engineering firm and you re trying to grow your business, you kind of need to know what s in the funnel and where you are with certain prospects and clients.
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SPEAKER_00
So I don t think, I think this is a universal thing.
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SPEAKER_00
But if you hear us talk about CROs and that s just not your deal, don t worry.
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SPEAKER_00
The same thing applies, I think.
1
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Well, to me, exactly.
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I think the first lesson from this as we re talking to our listeners is I think you need to become a good forecaster for you.
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Above all else.
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And this is a big gap, where if you ask most salespeople and you ask them, why do you do a sales forecast, their answer is because I have to.
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Because the manager.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, manager makes me.
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So if you want a little switch in your mentality, I would encourage you to think about getting very set on, I want to forecast for myself.
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Most of you listening have variable comp.
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So your compensation planning and your lifestyle planning for your families is based upon your forecast.
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You should be able to tell that.
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I also believe that you are a better salesperson if you re a good forecaster, because you know when and how to turn the prospecting machine up or down, that sort of thing.
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Never off, just up or down.
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That s my first hit, is you become mentally a good forecaster for yourself.
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Because I bet 90% of the answers to that question are because I have to, because I m forced to by a CRO or manager or somebody.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
So maybe we talk about what
1
SPEAKER_00
what causes a prospect to go into the forecast?
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SPEAKER_00
Because at some point, there s an entry point where if you have a CRM, you maybe list them as opportunities, and then they go down the path, and there s a whole process.
1
SPEAKER_00
And again, that s where a lot of the drama starts.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, is it a 60% or a 30%?
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SPEAKER_00
What s the difference?
1
SPEAKER_00
What s a 90%?
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SPEAKER_00
But basically, it still gets back to, as I say, everything s 50-50.
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SPEAKER_00
It either will or it won t.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s good.
1
SPEAKER_00
But that s a very
1
SPEAKER_00
That s an old, old thinking, I know, because we have to deal in likelihoods and percentages.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so I know that is.
1
SPEAKER_00
But my question to you is, what are you telling your clients that the prospect needs to
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SPEAKER_00
needs to be telling them before they are a real opportunity to go into this pipeline, this forecast?
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
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There are three elements that I would call filter points that would say, when I ve checked these three elements, then I have a, first of all, what we call a real deal on our hands.
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SPEAKER_01
Without any of these three, we don t.
1
SPEAKER_01
The first is a motive.
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SPEAKER_01
Is there some reason to do something like we just finished a little onboarding meeting right before we started recording out here?
1
SPEAKER_01
And one of the questions I want to always know from our sales team is, why did they buy?
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SPEAKER_01
Why did they sign up for the program?
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Why did they want coaching for us?
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That s the why.
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That s the motive.
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Second is the money.
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And do I understand the economics, both their side and our side?
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And then the third is the process of, do I understand the deciding process?
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SPEAKER_01
If I don t know any of those three, I don t have a real deal on my hands.
1
SPEAKER_01
And honestly, I m probably a bad person to ask this question to.
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SPEAKER_01
I will tend to discount something down probably to the extreme for conservative reasons.
1
SPEAKER_01
So if you say, what s the probability of a deal closing in the next 30 days where you have two of the three, I would put it down to 10% range.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s probably too aggressive.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m the same way.
1
SPEAKER_01
I go low.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, right.
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And I understand from a VP of sales CRO standpoint that sometimes they get frustrated by that.
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I say, well, it s not 10.
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SPEAKER_01
But then I want to.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s called sandbagging.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not sandbagging.
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SPEAKER_01
I m just trying to be real with it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it can bop back up with one meeting.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because having two out of three of those, and the three were understanding the motive, understanding all things money around it, and then understanding the buying process or decision process.
1
SPEAKER_00
One of those is as good as killing a deal, too.
1
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_00
Any of those can kill a deal.
1
SPEAKER_00
So just because you have two or three doesn t mean you re at 66%.
1
SPEAKER_01
No.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, no, no.
1
SPEAKER_01
For sure.
1
SPEAKER_01
For sure.
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But that s an easy little checklist that I just think a lot of salespeople brush over.
1
SPEAKER_01
They don t think about that.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if you can go back and tell your boss, or when you re putting in the CRM, if you have this little checklist here, what s the motive?
1
SPEAKER_01
What s the money conversation sound like?
1
SPEAKER_01
Does it make economic sense?
1
SPEAKER_01
And do I understand the buying process?
1
SPEAKER_01
Then you re most of the way there.
1
SPEAKER_01
Then you re 90% of the way there.
1
SPEAKER_00
As opposed to, oh, we had a great conversation.
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SPEAKER_00
We had a great, when you say.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, he s a good, he loves, he loves what we re doing.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, he s reading all my LinkedIn posts.
1
SPEAKER_00
We had a great conversation and you know, they re, they re, they re in a tight spot right now.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, what s the pain?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, you know, they re, they re dealing with a lot of issues that are subsequent to the COVID.
1
SPEAKER_01
Bill s famous for this, if you ve listened to Bill for a long time, which I have.
1
SPEAKER_01
One of his pet peeves is a salesperson coming back to the sales manager going, I had a great meeting.
1
SPEAKER_01
I had a great meeting.
1
SPEAKER_01
What s that?
1
SPEAKER_01
What s a great meeting?
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, we had Jimmy John s.
1
SPEAKER_01
I made Diet Coke.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was great.
1
SPEAKER_01
We got cookies.
1
SPEAKER_01
He loves it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, he loves us.
1
SPEAKER_01
We talked golf for 45 minutes.
1
SPEAKER_01
We talked Masters.
1
SPEAKER_01
This guy s a big golfer.
1
SPEAKER_01
We talked Masters.
1
SPEAKER_01
We talked about that last bit of that putt where that guy almost missed it.
1
SPEAKER_01
We talked about that for 45 minutes.
1
SPEAKER_01
That was great.
1
SPEAKER_00
He s a fan.
1
SPEAKER_00
He s a fan.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s a fan.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I d be shocked if he didn t buy.
1
SPEAKER_01
This is the truth, though, isn t it?
1
SPEAKER_01
This is what goes in the forecast.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we, you know, come on, let s face it.
1
SPEAKER_00
We re all positive people.
1
SPEAKER_00
We love to be positive rather than pessimistic.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if it s a 90, we re positive.
1
SPEAKER_00
If it s a 10, we re pessimistic.
1
SPEAKER_00
But you just got to be real.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if you re not finding these three things that, Brian, I want to talk about a couple of these in a little bit more detail.
1
SPEAKER_00
the motive, the money, and the decision process.
1
SPEAKER_00
In terms of the motive, I think sometimes we can skip over even that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we can ask, why did you decide to see me today, Brian, if I m the salesperson?
1
SPEAKER_00
And you would say what?
1
SPEAKER_01
I would say, well, I just was, I heard a lot of good things about you and was looking for some sales coaching.
1
SPEAKER_01
And your name came up.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so I wanted to just learn a little bit about your programs.
1
SPEAKER_00
OK, well, great, great.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, let me tell you a little bit about what we do and why we do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so then I go into my pitch.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we say, well, we found his pain.
1
SPEAKER_00
We found his problem.
1
SPEAKER_00
We found the motive.
1
SPEAKER_00
The motive was he s looking for sales coaching.
1
SPEAKER_00
And of course, we know, well, that s not the motive.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s the conclusion of the motive.
1
SPEAKER_00
The motive caused him to reach out to me and to four other people.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s cool.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I ve got to find out what s really going on.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think we, as a profession, aren t very good at that, going deeper and deeper until we really.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s not about trying to manipulate the prospect.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s about understanding, what are they dealing with?
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What s suffocating them?
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What are their circumstances, their dilemmas?
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et cetera.
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Yes.
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Even from a standpoint, if I said that, you would want to know from me, if I was the owner of that company, and I said, are you in checking it out mode?
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What s wrong with your sales team?
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What are they really good at?
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What are they not?
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Because you re assessing if you want to continue a process with me.
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That s where people get really screwed up.
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I almost cussed.
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Gave us an explicit.
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I didn t do it.
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It s lit.
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Oh, it s after lit.
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It is lit.
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No, it s not.
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No, no.
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Easter Sunday.
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Do you ever give up cussing for lit?
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No.
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No.
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You can t.
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You couldn t.
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No.
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Why would I do that?
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I just absolve myself every Saturday at 4.30 at confession.
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I gave up diet ice cream for Lent this year.
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I m feeling good.
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This is Holy Week, though.
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I had Palm Sunday yesterday.
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Palm Sunday, yeah.
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No, people don t realize that you are diagnosing for you as much as for them.
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And I m just trying to steer them in the right direction.
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Because let s pretend you and I carried that conversation out.
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And I said, you know, I ve got three salespeople.
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They ve each been with me.
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One s been with me 25 years, a year or two, 28 years.
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There are two in their early 60s, one in their late 50s.
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You know, they re pretty set in their ways.
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But you know, I just think they could use a little, you know?
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You paint the picture, right?
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And I can see by your face.
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You can t see Bill s face.
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This sounds awful.
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No, thank you for you.
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You would hate that, wouldn t you?
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Versus if I said, look, I ve got a team of 10.
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Half of them are in their second sales job.
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They re dying for some coaching.
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They re coming to me wanting help.
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Yes, and asking me for coaching.
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I don t have time to coach them right now.
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I know they re podcast listeners, not of yours, but I know they re that way.
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And they re sponges.
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You re in, right?
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Totally.
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I m in.
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Totally different.
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Same deal.
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So like you say, it s not just about trying to get them to feel this pain.
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It s trying to understand what the situation is and whether you can help or not.
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Absolutely.
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And I think in the money part, and we ve talked about this, but I think as we re talking about it in terms of forecasting that we deal with this, and that is there s always two faces to this money thing.
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There s the budget, and what are they willing to spend on this thing?
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on you, but there s also, what s the cost of the problem?
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Is there a cost to the problem?
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And it s hard for you to get the cost of the problem if you haven t gone deep enough into the first part.
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Can t.
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Because I can t, on the first thing, and I m not suggesting that you would have done the way I did where we just start pitching, but if that s all I get from him that we re looking for coaching, I can t say, well, how much is that costing you to have?
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It s like, what are you talking about?
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I m just looking for coaching.
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Right, right.
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So you can t get to the money part if you don t do a good job on the motive and pain and possibility part.
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Yep.
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And pull intention up forward again, as you heard us in that little practice session, where your intention is to figure out if you can be helpful to the person if you can t.
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Like, Bill, you and I aren t going to show up great.
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Nothing against people our age, but.
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We got a room full of people that look like us, that are our age, that are been, you know, I m just not going to show up, I think, with the same, if they re like, well, we re doing this because our boss made us.
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Yeah, totally, just shut up.
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Versus a room full of 28-year-old, 32-year-olds that are dying for new stuff, right?
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Same with the money.
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You ve got to understand, you never want to put anyone into an economically bad position.
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And so if someone s saying, look, our average sales lift is 2% a year, and an extra 1% adds $1,500 to the bottom line, and our coaching programs are $100,000, I m not going to put you in that program.
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It doesn t make any economic sense at all to do that.
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But you won t know that unless you know the economics.
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You ll know the economic logic.
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Yes.
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So if you like this topic of forecasting and you think your management team, if you re not on the management team, needs to hear about this and talk about some technology that might be able to help you, we have an event on May 4th called Closing the Sales Execution Gap.
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Scott Barker from Outreach will be our guest.
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It will be a live recording and we ll be posing questions to him and he ll be giving some of the insight that he has learned
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from all the companies they work with about how to be more effective at this.
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Boom.
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We ll talk about these things and more via live recording.
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That s the fun part.
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Live recording with Scott Barker on May the 4th.
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Yeah.
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Talk to you then.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay.
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Bye.