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Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip.
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I m Kelsey McKinney.
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In each episode of this podcast, we re going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world.
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I am so excited to have with me today Avery Truffleman.
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Avery, welcome to the show.
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Thank you so much.
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What a dream.
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Avery Truffleman is the host and producer of the podcast Articles of Interest, which was named one of the best podcasts of the year by The New Yorker, The New York Times, The Atlantic, and many others.
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She was named one of the 500 most important people by the trade journal Business of Fashion.
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Avery, do you want to start me off with the classic first question and tell me what your relationship with gossip is?
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I mean, I love it.
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I adore it.
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Great start.
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And then in my own life,
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As you may well know, podcasters have a very niche fame.
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It is very rare and exciting for me if someone recognizes me and comes up to me and they re like, hey, I listened to your show.
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I m like, wow, thank you so much.
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That s so cool.
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Historically, I keep having this problem where the very few times that someone approaches me, I like happen to be in the midst of talking some serious shit, just like saying awful things out loud.
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And then someone will come up to me and be like, hey, are you Avery Truffleman?
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I m like, oh.
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Oh no, oh no.
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And it feels like when you look in the mirror and say Bloody Mary three times, I feel like every time I say something spicy, someone will recognize me.
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And like only then.
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So I should do it less, but I can t.
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That s also so funny because your show is not very shit-talky.
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Oh, no.
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At all.
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So it s very funny to me to imagine being at a party and hearing you be like, I hate that fucking bitch.
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She s such a nightmare.
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And so it s like Avery Truffleman of articles of interest?
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I love everybody.
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Yeah, I love everyone I ve ever met.
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Get everything you ve heard.
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How do you handle that situation?
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If you re in the midst of talking shit and now you re meeting someone who listens to the pod.
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I m asking for a friend, not for me.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Yeah, I don t know.
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I feel like if I get caught in the middle, I just stumble all over myself and try to defend myself.
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And the other thing is probably no one cares.
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And they also, it s not like they want to be my friend.
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They just want to be like, hi.
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Hi.
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Yeah.
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Hi, bye.
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How do you gossip with your friends?
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Like what is your role within the group?
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Are you the bringer of gossip?
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Are you the receiver of gossip?
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All of the above.
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I m worried I m going to undermine my standing as a journalist.
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I always fact check the things that I put on my show.
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Well, yeah, that s the show.
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Oh, yeah.
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But I love an apocryphal story.
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I love rumors.
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I just love them.
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How dare you come on my show and use a big word like apocryphal?
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Get out of here.
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But I just, I don t know.
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I feel like, um...
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Especially in the world of fashion, everyone s so frightened of gossip and so scared about what other people think.
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Oh wait, say way more.
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Why?
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Well, because it makes sense because in fashion,
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you know, you re like wearing someone else s name on your body.
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Like that s their brand.
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And for a lot of cases, if in some cases, the way these brands make their money is by literally selling their name to some sunglasses manufacturer or some perfume manufacturer.
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So like the name and associations with the name are everything.
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And so if you know like something,
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bad or even just humanizing, you know, something about them as a person that like maybe you don t agree with and wouldn t want their name plastered on you.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Everyone s really, really protective of gossip in the fashion industry in a way that I think leads to this vicious cycle where everyone s so frightened that nothing can get out and everyone s supposed to be perfect.
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I don t know.
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I want to believe that if we knew the truth and flaws and humanity of the people behind various fashion lines, maybe we d be more drawn to it.
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Although that really doesn t apply for people
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Coco Chanel.
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There s no redeeming that, you know?
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Yikes.
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So, you know, like, yeah, people want their clothes, their brands to be kind of a blank canvas so that they can have associations with them.
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Okay.
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I want to ask you about trends and if trends are tied to gossip, like are those things connected?
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Well, it s interesting, right?
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Because some trends,
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start in this very like grassroots viral way.
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Okay, can you give me an example?
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Well, you see something on on TikTok, like there was that whole wave, especially after the pandemic of like, gnomecore, bistrocore, tomato girl, like coastal grandma, like what are these things?
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And then you get to the sort of galaxy brain level, like you have you heard about like the mob wife aesthetic?
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Oh, yeah.
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Oh yeah, and so there s this whole conspiracy theory that there was a plant from HBO to promote... The Sopranos?
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Yeah, there was like a new... whatever.
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I don t know the details of it, but there was some promotion tied in with The Sopranos, and they were like, listen, it s not that hard to start one of these things if you just pay a few people to do it.
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Honestly, if they did it, it worked, right?
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Exactly.
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So it does kind of function like the rumor mill.
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And that s part of how trends work.
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I mean, I m a big believer in trends, just in the same way that I think gossip tied communities together since days of yore.
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I don t think fashion was invented by capitalism.
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Obviously, capitalism put it into hyperdrive, just in the same way capitalism didn t invent love.
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We ll sell you anything in its name.
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I think that like trends were something I mean trends existed under feudalism like trends are just a way to say like I am of this community like I follow these people and so when even if you re looking at like Maori tattoos or like I don t know
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grass skirts, literally any form of dress in any culture.
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They follow trends and they are like organized by group.
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And so, yeah, I think the need to like latch on to a trend and follow other people and be a part of a group is very linked to that same sort of like importance of gossip.
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You know, this is like something very innate, I think, within like communities.
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That s interesting because it also plays on the idea of like both gossip and trends as using a system that exists to create belonging for yourself within it, right?
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Like if I can adapt to the trend of this group, if I can bring gossip to this group, I can be one of them, which is an interesting power dynamic.
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Totally.
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There s like these interesting roles at play.
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Can you think of any like trend recently that you feel has had like a kind of grassroots organizing around it in the way that like a true gossip story might take off into the public sphere?
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Well, it s interesting because obviously like some trends are driven by like
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lifestyle and the most obvious example is like sweatpants and the pandemic, you know, like that just happened and the world adapted.
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But I also think, you know, like I have this long hair now that I used to not have and it like grew out during the pandemic and I spent pandemic alone.
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And so to me, it s like very, I feel like I earned, like this is my lion s name, like I m not going to cut this.
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And I think a lot of people feel that way.
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So like, you know, like claw clips.
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for hair are really in right now.
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But I think it s just because people are like, oh, I guess I have this long hair now, and I don t know what to do with it.
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But it definitely is a trend.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah, for sure.
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Things get set in motion from the world.
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Right, by your existence in the world.
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Exactly, exactly.
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And so I have a whole collection of claw clips.
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I m like, how did this come into my life?
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I was like, I guess I just slowly figured out I needed this.
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Today s story is about someone who loves their hobby so much that it is infectious to other people so that they start to love it too.
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Has this ever happened to you?
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Have you had any experiences like this?
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Yes, I feel like I m especially susceptible to this.
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I like everything.
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I m just like, this is the most important thing.
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I recently went to a flamenco show, and I was like, flamenco is the mother art form.
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And I was immediately Googling flamenco classes New York City.
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It s just the most incredible thing.
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And I met someone last night who was like, I make my own shoes with my own lathe.
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And I was like, must look into making shoes.
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I mean, I m passionate about other people s passion.
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I always used to joke that I should never go to a Scientology headquarters because I d be like, okay, like, yeah, you guys are so passionate.
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That s very relatable to me.
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Okay, here we go.
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We are in the Pacific Northwest today.
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Big trees, forests.
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Our friend of a friend today, her name is Izzy.
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She s in her mid-twenties.
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She s like totally lovely girl, but she s feeling super lonely recently.
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And that is because she made a mistake and she moved to Boyfriend Island.
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No.
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Do you know what Boyfriend Island is?
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Where you don t talk to any of your friends and you just get sucked up by your relationship.
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Yes.
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Oh, no.
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Boyfriend Island is a gender neutral term, right?
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You can have a girlfriend and still move to Boyfriend Island and get absorbed by all of their energy and lose your entire life.
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Oh, oh, that s I never knew that word for it.
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It s so useful.
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I didn t.
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Yeah, to have a shorthand for it.
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Yeah, it s sad when someone moves to Boyfriend Island because you re like, I ve lost my friend.
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They ve disappeared into the abyss.
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And who knows if they ll ever return?
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Oh, I feel like when that happens, I m like, they ll be back.
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I just got to wait this one out.
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OK.
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Izzy s friends did not wait her out.
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She was there for, like, two years.
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And she comes back from Boyfriend Island and, like, basically wakes up and realizes she has no friends left.
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Oh, the nightmare.
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Oh.
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The nightmare.
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I feel like I went to the brink of that place.
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You went to the airport.
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Yeah, exactly.
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The harbor, you know, I was on the ferry.
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You stood on the dock.
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But yeah, I don t know.
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I m very curious about what Izzy did.
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Yeah, Izzy tries all sorts of stuff.
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She s like, I ll join a rec sports league, but she s too competitive, right?
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She tries a bunch of things.
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She s like, I ll go to a dance class, but she s uncoordinated, right?
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None of these things work for her.
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And finally, she s like, fuck it.
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I m going on the apps.
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I m going to start dating again.
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That s that s our way to make friends.
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Okay.
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Listen, I didn t say everyone on this podcast was a hero.
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She gets on the apps.
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She s going on lots of dates.
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She s like, everyone is so boring, right?
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Like she keeps going on these dates and they re just like, the conversation s going nowhere.
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Nobody has anything fun to say.
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And so she like invents a question to start asking people.
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And the question she s asking people is like, what are you a sicko about, right?
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Like what s something that you re so passionate about that you just like could talk for hours?
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That s a great question.
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Do you have one of these topics?
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See, I know a whole little bit about a lot.
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I love that.
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I am like a mile wide and two centimeters deep.
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But that s the thing.
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I think that s part of why I admire it, because I admire people who ve taken the time to really become a sicko about something.
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Oh, yeah, totally, totally, totally.
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This is why I love this question, right?
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Yeah, it s great.
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It s like, tell me the thing that you re going to get all worked up about.
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100%.
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That s brilliant.
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So she goes on this date with this guy.
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His name is Theo.
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And he s like giving young John Lennon vibes, right?
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Like swoopy hair, round glasses, clip-on sunglasses.
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He s wearing like a loose vegan leather bomber.
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This is the vibe.
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They have dinner.
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They re having drinks.
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After the second drink, she s like, what are you a sicko about?
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And he lights up.
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The thing he is a sicko about is foraging for mushrooms.
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I mean, okay.
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Sorry.
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No, that s cool.
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Say it.
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No.
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That s cool.
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No.
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That s cool.
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I really respect that.
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No.
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Okay.
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Don t lie to me.
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I mean, that s such a phylum of guy.
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Uh-huh.
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Say more.
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Wow.
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I m so mean.
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Go off.
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Okay.
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There are some passions that I think that everybody should do and everybody should be into.
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And so I don t like when people make them their whole identity.
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Like exercise.
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Yeah, exactly.
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It s like, these are things that everybody should be able to do.
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Right.
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Like, not dogmatically.
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So no, foraging is cool.
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Foraging is fascinating.
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And, you know, obviously you have to know what you re doing so that you don t die.
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Like, I know someone who got very, very sick from a bad forage.
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Don t like that.
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Izzy s like, I m into this, right?
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She s like, I can be into anything that someone is going to get all worked up about.
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So she s like, getting him worked up, right?
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She s like, what s going on here?
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He looks like John Lennon.
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She s like, whatever.
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Tell me, right?
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Like, what s going on there?
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Who s involved?
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What are the communities?
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She s like, is there any drama?
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And Theo s like, oh, yeah, there s a lot of drama.
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Because foraging is kind of a communal experience, right?
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You re going out.
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You re getting your mushrooms.
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You are supposed to not take more than you need and share with others.
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And it s this kind of egalitarian community.
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He s like, but people often have a secret grove.
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which is where they go to get their special mushrooms.
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And they don t tell other people where it is.
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And so they like are protective of their area with their secret mushrooms.
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Oh my God.
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I just like...
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Okay, then just go have a garden.
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Why engage in the community if you re like, I m gonna go tend to my little... Okay, whatever.
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Izzy s like, do you have a secret mushroom foraging zone?
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Good question, Izzy.
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And he s like, yeah, of course I have one.
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And she s like, where is it?
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And he s like, oh, I don t tell anyone that until at least the fourth date.
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Oh.
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This is like everything that I hate about liberal posturing.
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It s like, I believe in being connected with the earth and with my community.
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And also I ve created a police tape zone around my own secret mushroom foraging area.
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Exactly.
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Izzy is like, you know what?
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I m having fun in this conversation.
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I m learning a lot.
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I m being kind of judgmental.
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I m pretty interested in what you re saying about foraging and the community that you ve built.
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And it seems like this guy has a lot of friends.
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So I m like, that s interesting to me.
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But she is not sexually attracted to this man at all.
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like 0% sexual attraction.
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But she s like enchanted with him, right?
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Like as he s talking, she s like so engaged.
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He s so charismatic.
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She s like, this is so interesting.
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And then the minute she goes home, she s like, what the fuck was I thinking?
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Like this guy was talking about mushrooms all night.
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Like he was, why?
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I want to be like, do we know if Theo asked Izzy any questions?
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But I think I know the answer.
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That s a good question.
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I think probably not.
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Yeah.
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Probably not.
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I don t know.
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Has this ever happened to you, though, where you re enchanted by someone while they re in front of you, and then they leave, and you re like, that person was actually kind of weird, or mean to me, or this kind of dissonance?
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Definitely in dating I ve had that, and like, oh, this is so fun, and we re vibing in the moment, and then.
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Yeah.
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I feel like when I was younger, also, like when I was Izzy s age, I felt that a lot.
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I d be like, oh, is this just like a great, is this just an interesting time?
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And I remember I was living with an older woman once.
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My roommate was 30, and I was like, oh, she s an older lady.
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And I remember her pulling me aside and being like, Avery, you gotta wanna fuck him.
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You gotta wanna fuck him, Avery.
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Honestly, good advice.
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It s great advice.
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OK, so what s your advice to Izzy in this situation where she is enchanted by him, she s been on one date, but then when he texts her to be like, hey, I had a great time, she s like, I don t know.
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Do you go on a second date with this guy?
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I mean, now, as a wizened 30-something, I say, Izzy, honey, you gotta wanna fuck him, if that s what you want.
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Although, maybe she is looking for a friend.
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She has indeed lost all of her friends, in which case she should make that clear to him and not leave any ambiguity.
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But I bet that s not what s going to happen.
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Izzy is in her early 20s.
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So she s like, well, how could I know anything from a first date?
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If I had a good time on the first date, I d do a second date.
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So she goes.
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And immediately, the minute he s in front of her, she s enchanted again.
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She s like, this man is so charismatic.
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He just has, you know when people just have it and they re the flame that everyone is drawn to?
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She s like, this is crazy.
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And today, he does ask her questions.
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He s like, what s your sicko subject?
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And she s like, my sicko subject is early 2000s girl pop.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so they are chatting, chatting, chatting.
1
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s asking her all these questions.
1
SPEAKER_01
She s getting all worked up.
1
SPEAKER_01
Again, she has this enchanting conversation with him.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s rare in this world.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then the minute he leaves, she s like, I don t care about this man at all.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like the rose-colored glasses come off the minute he s out of her sight.
1
SPEAKER_00
She lost her object permanence.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s so weird.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
But she s also like, we ve been on two dates, and I m not obsessed with him.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t think he s hot.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right, right.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m not like trying to fuck him.
1
SPEAKER_01
So she s like, I cannot keep going on dates with this person.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I do not want to sleep with them.
1
SPEAKER_01
So she texts him and she s like,
2
SPEAKER_00
I ve had a really great time on the dates, but I just don t think that this is going to work between us.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t really have romantic feelings here. 
2
SPEAKER_00
Good for her.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she s like, but I really loved learning about your psychosubjects.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you so much for sharing those with me.
2
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he texts her back and is like, totally understand, like, this is part of dating.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you ever want to come forage with my group, though, just let me know.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re totally welcome.
2
SPEAKER_02
What a kind response.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I think that s great.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, I hope Izzy does it.
2
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_02
You know, I have this theory that like, in the old timey world, when people met in person,
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, you kind of started from zero.
2
SPEAKER_02
You know, you were like, oh, is this a date?
2
SPEAKER_02
Is this friendship?
2
SPEAKER_02
What is it?
2
SPEAKER_02
And you could sort of feel it out.
2
SPEAKER_02
But it s very hard in online dating where the bar is set so high where it s like, oh, you re going to date, like you re going to date together and you re going to be in love that anything less than that feels like some sort of demotion when that s actually so rare to find like a friend you like talking to.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I ve made like amazing friends from my time on the app, but it was very hard
2
SPEAKER_02
to get to that place of friendship to bring it back down, because the bar was already so high.
2
SPEAKER_02
So I appreciate that he s open to it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Izzy s like, both of our quote, unquote, dates have not felt like dates.
2
SPEAKER_00
So actually, this is ideal.
2
SPEAKER_00
I kind of would like to be in the periphery of this person.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it seems like Theo s game, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and she s like, and I need friends, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
OK, I love this for them.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s like, cool.
2
SPEAKER_00
Here s the deal.
2
SPEAKER_00
I actually lead a foraging group.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, he leads them.
2
SPEAKER_00
But there s like one caveat, and that s that the foraging group is like a guided lesson tour.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so it costs like 40 bucks to go.
2
SPEAKER_02
All right.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you know, the menschy thing would be to let her go for free.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I feel like if it were me and I were in my mid-20s, I d be like, oh, I m such a little turd.
2
SPEAKER_02
I can t believe I told him that I didn t want to date him anymore.
2
SPEAKER_02
So I ll pay this $40 as penance, and then I ll feel better.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I would actually, I think, appreciate that out.
2
SPEAKER_02
I d be like, well, you know, it s fair.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, I paid.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, for sure.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then you re also like, this definitely isn t a date, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, I m paying someone $40 to learn their skill.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
You and Izzy are like clocked in.
2
SPEAKER_00
She s like, absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m so game.
2
SPEAKER_00
I totally want to do this.
2
SPEAKER_00
So she like Venmo s him the $40 and she goes, this is the first week.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
She shows up to the woods at 10 a.m.
2
SPEAKER_00
and she s like, this is early, I m so brave.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s literally a fairy tale.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like, we know how this goes.
2
SPEAKER_01
She arrives at the edge of the woods.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re crumbs.
2
SPEAKER_00
She follows the crumbs.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, she shows up and she s like wearing a normal thing that you would wear to go foraging, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
She s wearing like hiking boots and like athleisure.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
2
SPEAKER_00
She gets there and there are like 15 people there waiting for Theo.
2
SPEAKER_00
And all of them are so hot, like unbelievably hot.
2
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, yeah, what are they wearing?
2
SPEAKER_00
They re all wearing athleisure, but they re all wearing like the same color palette.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like they re all wearing like either like light olive or like taupe or like beige.
2
SPEAKER_02
Okay, okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so she s immediately feeling like she s out of place because she s in her black leggings.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can you talk a little bit about how style seeps?
2
SPEAKER_00
Why might one group all end up dressing the same?
2
SPEAKER_02
It s so interesting that you say that.
2
SPEAKER_02
I went to a party the other day, and it was in this very elegant loft, and everybody showed up, and they were wearing white.
2
SPEAKER_02
I was like, where did this memo come from?
2
SPEAKER_02
How did you all know to wear white?
2
SPEAKER_02
Were you wearing white?
2
SPEAKER_02
No, I wasn t.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was wearing plaid.
2
SPEAKER_02
I was wearing blue plaid.
2
SPEAKER_02
I felt like a bumpkin.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re a king.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I was just asking myself this question of like, how do they all work on the same wavelength?
2
SPEAKER_02
But that s really how it happens.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like people in a certain cohort just like, it s like how birds know how to fly south.
2
SPEAKER_02
They just follow each other.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s some miraculous thing beyond us.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and if you aren t the right bird, you don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
She s like, I m wearing all black.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m feeling a little weird.
2
SPEAKER_00
Whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she s also like, because of my tenure on Boyfriend Island, I ve lost all my friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I am going to introduce myself to all of these people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right?
2
SPEAKER_00
So she like introduces herself to all of these people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Two of them are Rosa and Yvonne.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she s like, these are the people that are my friends, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
In this group of 15, it s you two.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they ve been here, like, Rosa s been here for, like, three months doing this, and Yvonne s been here for six.
2
SPEAKER_00
So they re, like, way better than her.
2
SPEAKER_02
And they re very hot, I imagine.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re very hot.
2
SPEAKER_00
Everyone in this group is so hot.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so she s like, this is so great.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, I ve made two friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re hot.
2
SPEAKER_00
They can teach me about the mushrooming.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have someone to hang out with.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can, like, maybe regain my social circles.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, God.
2
SPEAKER_01
OK.
2
SPEAKER_00
About five minutes before they start,
2
SPEAKER_00
Another Subaru pulls into the parking lot.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s blaring Mandy Moore is he s like, I love Mandy Moore.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s her.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s her sicko thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the car parks.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is Theo.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she s like, this is so weird.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like that s the kind of music that I said was my sicko subject.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like he s here.
2
SPEAKER_00
He gets out of the car.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s like walking up to them.
2
SPEAKER_00
And Rosa s like, isn t it so crazy how charismatic he is?
2
SPEAKER_02
What?
2
SPEAKER_00
And Izzy s like, yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Why is it that he shows up and we re all enchanted by him?
2
SPEAKER_00
He s standing up there.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s giving them the basics.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s like, here s what we re going to do today.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re going to walk in this area.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re going to walk so slowly.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re going to look for this specific kind of mushroom.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re going to get your little mushrooms.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re going to put them in your little basket.
2
SPEAKER_00
We ll all wander for a long time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Then we ll meet back here, and we ll lay them out on the table, and we ll identify them together.
2
SPEAKER_00
We ll talk about what we found.
2
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s making a lot of eye contact.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re like, we ve got it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Here we go.
2
SPEAKER_00
So they go walking into the woods.
2
SPEAKER_00
Immediately, Theo is like, you re all walking too fast.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like everyone walks slower.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they re like, okay, sorry, sorry, sorry.
2
SPEAKER_00
So they re walking slower and he keeps like stopping at things and gasping and then people will like gather around him and he s like, look at this mushroom and he ll like tell them to touch it and they ll touch it and he ll like get it out of the earth.
2
SPEAKER_00
Rosa goes to get a mushroom, and he swoops in front of her and grabs her arm.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he s like, you can t get that one, because there s a difference that is very subtle between Chanterelles, which are on every fancy restaurant menu, and jack-o -lanterns, which will kill you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, OK, yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
So he s like, not that one.
2
SPEAKER_00
That one will kill you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Joke s on you.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is poisonous.
2
SPEAKER_02
And she s like, I m sorry.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s so hot.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m like, Daddy, ugh, you saved me.
2
SPEAKER_00
And Izzy is like, this is a great moment of clarity for me, because that should be hot.
2
SPEAKER_00
I should think that this is very hot, but I do not think it s hot.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m like, how nice of him to save Rosa.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, after the hike, they get all the mushrooms, they put them on the picnic table, he s like brushing them all off, they re all looking at the mushrooms, and Theo pulls out the ones that he found.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the ones that he found are like way more special than the ones that everyone else found.
2
SPEAKER_00
And Rosa is like, I don t know how he s always finding those.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, he s always finding mushrooms that no one else can find.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, I do all this same shit and I can t find any of these.
2
SPEAKER_00
You have been on two platonic-ish dates with this man.
2
SPEAKER_00
and you know that he has a secret spot.
2
SPEAKER_02
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you tell them?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
I would probably try to talk to Theo first, pull him aside and be like, where are these from?
2
SPEAKER_00
Izzy has totally shifted her allegiance now.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she s like, I m going to tell Rosa and Yvonne about this because sharing secrets is a good way to make friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so she s like, oh, well, he told me that he has a special spot where he gets mushrooms from.
2
SPEAKER_00
And Rosa and Yvonne are like,
2
SPEAKER_00
Didn t you just join this group?
2
SPEAKER_00
How do you know that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you tell them that you went on a date?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
I would definitely be like, because that s also cool to be like, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_02
We dated.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re friends now.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s totally cool.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Izzy is replaying the interaction that Theo had with Rosa, and she s like, I don t know if I want to mention that I went on a date with him.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know what the vibe is here.
2
SPEAKER_00
So she s like, oh, I just heard him mention it to someone else.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they re like, oh, he has a secret grove.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now they re whispering.
2
SPEAKER_00
Once he s done with this whole mushroom thing, people get to come up there and get mushrooms that they want to take home.
2
SPEAKER_00
the ones that they picked and also like extra ones.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s nice.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
The girl in front of Izzy gets up there and she like gets her little mushrooms and Theo is like, oh, I love your bangs.
2
SPEAKER_00
And Izzy s like, oh, that girl does have great bangs, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like she s looking at this girl.
2
SPEAKER_00
Incredible bangs.
2
SPEAKER_00
Izzy is given her mushrooms to take home.
2
SPEAKER_00
She s like, you know what?
2
SPEAKER_00
I had a really good time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like this was really fun for me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you think she should go again?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like after this experience, would you go again?
2
SPEAKER_02
Like I...
2
SPEAKER_02
probably would just try to get Yvonne s number and hang out in a different way.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I guess the real answer is it depends on how good the mushrooms are.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, what if they were amazing?
2
SPEAKER_02
I d be like, I m going to get me some more.
2
SPEAKER_02
They are amazing.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, well then.
2
SPEAKER_00
She gets home and she s like, these are amazing.
2
SPEAKER_00
She makes a little pasta with them.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she s like, I m basically a Michelin starred restaurant.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, this is going so well.
2
SPEAKER_02
Hey, that s not nothing.
2
SPEAKER_00
So she s like, I m going to go again.
2
SPEAKER_00
Also, she did not get Yvonne and Rose s numbers.
2
SPEAKER_00
So she s like, I m going to be going back.
3
SPEAKER_01
Over the course of the week, she can t stop thinking about that girl who got bangs and how good her bangs looked.
3
SPEAKER_01
And a terrifying question has entered her mind, which is, should she get bangs?
3
SPEAKER_00
She has come to the moment where she must decide the blue pill or the red pill.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, every woman s terrible journey.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, we all get to this precipice.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have certainly impulsively
3
SPEAKER_00
cut my own bangs at various moments in my life, at the drop of a hat.
3
SPEAKER_00
If I were in a more fragile, emotional place, Kelsey, I would look at your beautiful bangs and tonight go cut my hair.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do you know?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is the problem with bangs is that they are kind of like a viral airborne infection.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s true.
3
SPEAKER_01
That night, Izzy cuts her own bangs.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_00
How d it go?
3
SPEAKER_01
She looks great.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s like, I like these.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, twee is back in.
3
SPEAKER_01
Great.
3
SPEAKER_01
I love these for me.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have to say that there s this great, one of my favorite pieces of fashion writing ever is this piece by John Waters.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s like, listen, when you re in your 20s, you should just wear your shirts inside out, wear garbage bags, cut your own hair.
3
SPEAKER_00
Just do whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re going to look great.
3
SPEAKER_00
Don t worry about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he s like, when you get past 40, then you re going to need designers.
3
SPEAKER_00
Then you re going to need help.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Great.
3
SPEAKER_00
Vaya con Dios, Izzy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Go cut your bangs.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
So she does it.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s like, I look great.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s now week two of the Mushrooming Adventure.
3
SPEAKER_01
She goes again.
3
SPEAKER_01
This week, she does wear, like, olive green, because she s like everyone else is wearing olive green.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is a fascinating study of how trends work.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, this is how it happens.
3
SPEAKER_01
But something surprising has happened, which is this girl with the perfect bangs has also infected Rosa and Yvonne.
3
SPEAKER_00
So they have all returned with bangs.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow, her bangs are that good?
3
SPEAKER_01
So now they all have bangs and they re all like, wow, we look so great, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, this is a funny thing to have happened to you and your two new friends.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re like, look at us, we all have bangs.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like your cycles aligned.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, literally, literally.
3
SPEAKER_01
Theo shows up this week.
3
SPEAKER_01
His car is blaring Hillary Duff.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Rosa is like, oh, I love this song.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Yvonne is like, I love this song, too.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, now I m like, which song is it?
3
SPEAKER_00
There are good Hilary Duff songs that everybody can agree on.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, so that s the thing is that Izzy is like, I mean, yeah, it s a good song, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, it s not the kind of song that like, it s not deep cut anything.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
Theo gets out of the car.
3
SPEAKER_01
He starts them off hiking.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re all following him around.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, it s like one of those cartoons where there s like a smell of pie wafting and they re all like carrying behind it except the pie waft is like his charisma.
3
SPEAKER_01
Today he finds something exciting and he calls everyone in this group over and he s like, look at this thing that I found.
3
SPEAKER_01
He has all of this awe and tenderness in his voice.
3
SPEAKER_01
I cannot describe what s happening here because I don t want to, but I do have something to show you.
3
SPEAKER_01
The video that I m going to show you we will link in the show notes, but I m just going to show you because this is what happens.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is an example of what this man is doing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Can you read the title of this?
3
SPEAKER_00
Flicking a wet witch s butter fungus.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
Let s watch this, shall we?
3
SPEAKER_01
It s 12 seconds long.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh!
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh my god.
3
SPEAKER_00
It looks like a mound of melted yellow candle wax.
3
SPEAKER_00
Uh huh.
3
SPEAKER_00
I wish there was a more beautiful word for it because it s really hot.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s stroking it like a clitoris.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then it actually is like dripping water.
3
SPEAKER_00
It is so sensual and unexpected.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was about to say it would be hot if it wasn t so strange.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it is also hot and it s strange, but it s really bizarre.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, okay, so Theo is doing this.
3
SPEAKER_01
There are 15 people gathered around him watching him.
3
SPEAKER_01
What do you do with this?
3
SPEAKER_00
For me personally, this is such a nightmare.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I spent seven years living in the Bay Area.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, I know this man who, like, wants everyone to watch him, like, stroke a mushroom.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
3
SPEAKER_00
I d be like, OK, you know.
3
SPEAKER_00
All right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Curiosity sated.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_00
Going to get Yvonne and Rosa s number and not be here anymore.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
On the way out, Rosa and Yvonne are like, do you want to get a drink with us?
3
SPEAKER_01
And Izzy is like, yes, very much.
3
SPEAKER_01
I would like to get a drink.
3
SPEAKER_01
Let s all have a drink.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so they go out and they have a drink.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re having a good time.
3
SPEAKER_01
What are your goals for this conversation with your two new friends?
3
SPEAKER_01
Do you have any goals?
3
SPEAKER_01
Do you have any questions you want to ask them?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it would definitely be like, how do you know?
3
SPEAKER_00
How do you know Theo?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, how did this group get started?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, what s the what s the deal?
3
SPEAKER_00
I want to know everything.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Izzy is gonna plan to get to those things.
3
SPEAKER_01
But the first thing she wants to get to is like, what the fuck was going on with that like, witch s mushroom?
3
SPEAKER_01
I thought you were going to say that she was going to pose the sicko mode question on them, but no.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s like, what is going on with that?
3
SPEAKER_01
It was very sensual in a weird way, but also I didn t feel sexy or horny at all.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Rosa Devon are like, oh my god, we re always talking about this with Theo, that he s like doing things that are like objectively horny, but then we like don t feel any which way about it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Huh.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re like, he s giving middle school teacher vibes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, yeah, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
So they ve all bonded over this.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re becoming new friends.
3
SPEAKER_01
They have another drink.
3
SPEAKER_01
Izzy s getting a little drunk.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s like, how did this group get started?
3
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, Theo started it because he wanted to share his love of foraging mushrooms.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, you have one more drink, and you re suddenly like, why does everyone wear the same color?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Rosa and Yvonne are like, what?
3
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, literally everyone here is wearing taupe or green or some nature color.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Rosa and Yvonne are like, oh my god, I didn t even notice that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Yvonne is like, oh my god, remember when Alice joined?
3
SPEAKER_01
And Izzy s like, who s Alice?
3
SPEAKER_01
And Yvonne s like, Alice is the girl with the bangs.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, oh yeah, okay, yeah, I know Alice.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Yvonne s like, yeah, when Alice joined, she was wearing an entire oatmeal set of athleisure, and he complimented her, and she s like, remember Rosa, then you and I went and bought one.
3
SPEAKER_00
What?
3
SPEAKER_00
So everyone just copies Alice?
3
SPEAKER_01
Everyone just copies Alice.
3
SPEAKER_00
Activated by Theo.
3
SPEAKER_01
Activated by Theo.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
they re getting more into it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s like, okay, so we re all like not attracted to this man.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re all kind of directed by him.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s a little weird.
3
SPEAKER_01
Do you tell them at this point that you went on a date with him?
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, yeah, again, totally.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, again, if it were me at this point, they would have already known, but maybe that wouldn t have been the wiser.
3
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, I would have been like, you know, it s so funny because... Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Izzy is like, can I tell you two something?
3
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, yeah, of course you can tell us something.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, so we went on like two dates.
3
SPEAKER_01
perfectly nice dates.
3
SPEAKER_01
I had a good time, but I was not into him.
3
SPEAKER_01
The only crush I got was on his interests, and now I m here.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Rosa and Yvonne are like, that s so crazy because we also went on dates with him.
3
SPEAKER_01
I knew it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I knew it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I knew it.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you have a decent sample size, three of 15 people who have been on dates with him.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Is there anything like wrong with this in your mind?
3
SPEAKER_00
No.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it kind of reminds me of, like, Kelsey, have you ever been anyone s type before?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I ve had partners where I look back at who they ve dated.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m like, oh my God, they all look just like me.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, well, you can t.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I think they all look great.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, I love them.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re like, all your exes are hot.
3
SPEAKER_01
Congratulations.
3
SPEAKER_00
All your exes are hot and awesome.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, great taste.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I feel away.
3
SPEAKER_00
I feel weird.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I feel like something else is happening that s not about us.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
So the girls are kind of in this same circle of thought where they re like, this is like a little weird and it s a little suspicious, but they re also like, we all look different, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like none of us like look the same.
3
SPEAKER_01
So like it s not a physical type, but it may be like a mental or emotional type, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Where it s like, okay, you ve gathered up all
4
SPEAKER_01
these people who don t want to date you, put them in this group.
4
SPEAKER_01
So they re like, how many people in this group have gone on dates with him?
4
SPEAKER_01
Is it just the three of us?
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you go next week to find out?
4
SPEAKER_01
Remember, you have to pay $40 to go on this trip.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I would try to find other ways to contact the people in the group, but I guess I don t know their names.
4
SPEAKER_00
OK, I guess I would.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I guess I would.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, they re going.
4
SPEAKER_01
Everyone s going.
4
SPEAKER_01
Rosa, Yvonne, and Izzy are like, we are on a fucking mission.
4
SPEAKER_01
And our mission is, how many women in this group have dated this man?
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, it really is like Scientology.
4
SPEAKER_00
They just keep you coming back to try to figure out what it is that s going on.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
Out of Rebellion also this week, the three girls are like, we re not wearing taupe.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re not wearing olive.
4
SPEAKER_00
Good for them.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re going to be different.
4
SPEAKER_01
So they all show up in their black, navy outfits.
4
SPEAKER_01
They get there and they re like, who do we want to ask first?
4
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, well, Alice is our spiritual and emotional leader, so we will ask her.
4
SPEAKER_01
So they re like, Alice.
4
SPEAKER_01
Her eyes are, like, huge.
4
SPEAKER_01
She has the biggest eyes on earth.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re like, Alice.
4
SPEAKER_01
She s like, what?
4
SPEAKER_01
They re like, have you ever gone on a date with Theo?
4
SPEAKER_01
She s like, why would you ask me that?
4
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, we re just asking because we each went on, like, two or three dates with him.
4
SPEAKER_01
And Alice is like, oh my god, you ve got to be fucking kidding me.
4
SPEAKER_01
She s like, yeah, I went on, like, three dates with him, like, a year ago, and I ve been here ever since.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then another girl is like, oh my god, I also went on two dates with him, like, eight months ago.
4
SPEAKER_01
OK.
4
SPEAKER_01
At this point, a very tall man in this group overhears them.
4
SPEAKER_01
And the tall man is like, no, Theo s gay.
4
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, no, he definitely is not.
4
SPEAKER_01
And the man is like, no, I also went on a date with this man.
4
SPEAKER_01
So there are like six girls and two non-binary people and seven men in this group, and they have all been on dates with Theo.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is like everything that I wanted a shot at love with Teala Tequila to be.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is fantastic.
4
SPEAKER_01
Izzy s like, I ve got a few questions here.
4
SPEAKER_01
She s like, my first question is, why are we all here?
4
SPEAKER_01
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
And everyone is like, well, I did think the mushrooms were cool.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then I started coming.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like nice to walk around outside.
4
SPEAKER_01
And now I have friends.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so like, I just keep coming.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, my God.
4
SPEAKER_01
And she s like,
4
SPEAKER_01
OK, I have some more questions.
4
SPEAKER_01
Question number two, has anyone banged this man?
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, has anyone here slept with him?
4
SPEAKER_00
Great question.
4
SPEAKER_00
Great question.
4
SPEAKER_00
Has anybody?
4
SPEAKER_01
No.
4
SPEAKER_01
Everyone in the group is like, no.
4
SPEAKER_00
And everybody s paying every time?
4
SPEAKER_00
And everyone is paying every time.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my god.
4
SPEAKER_00
Theo, good job.
4
SPEAKER_00
Why good job?
4
SPEAKER_00
You re iconic.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s made a very steady income stream by phishing people from dating apps.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
I wish I was that passionate and sociopathic.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Now Izzy is kind of mad because she s getting $40 from all of us and you ve been collecting people across this app.
4
SPEAKER_01
And she also remembers
4
SPEAKER_01
something he said to her on their first date, which is like, there is a secret place where I go to find mushrooms.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I will not tell anyone until the fourth date.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so she s like, did anybody here make it to the fourth date?
4
SPEAKER_01
And everybody s like, no, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
It s one date.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s two dates.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s three days.
4
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, so nobody knows about the secret mushroom thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
And everyone s like, what secret mushroom thing?
4
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, he has a secret place that he goes to find mushrooms.
4
SPEAKER_01
And they re all like, you ve got to be fucking kidding me.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because they re like, he always has these beautiful mushrooms that none of us can ever find.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that he s giving us advice to find and we can t find.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_01
Theo shows up, he s like blaring Natasha Bedingfield today.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re like, what is happening with him?
4
SPEAKER_01
He gets out of the car and he s like, I love these outfits.
4
SPEAKER_01
The three of you look like spies.
4
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, thank you, Theo.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
If you only knew, Theo.
4
SPEAKER_01
If only you knew that we were on a reconnaissance mission.
4
SPEAKER_01
They go out, they re walking around, they re all getting their mushrooms.
4
SPEAKER_01
Today, when Theo reveals the beautiful, rare mushrooms that he has found, no one is happy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Everyone is a little mad and a little annoyed.
4
SPEAKER_01
Everyone is now jealous of the mushrooms.
4
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, this sucks.
4
SPEAKER_01
This man has been going on dates with all of us in the past.
4
SPEAKER_01
And now he s finding these secret mushrooms and won t tell us where they are.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re paying him $40 a week.
4
SPEAKER_01
He won t tell us where his secret spot is.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s terrible.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, what do you do here?
4
SPEAKER_01
This week is over.
4
SPEAKER_01
Are you, like, going to come back?
4
SPEAKER_01
Are you done here?
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I m not going to pay the money.
4
SPEAKER_00
Me, I would not pay the money again.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m like, we got to settle this now.
4
SPEAKER_00
OK.
4
SPEAKER_01
How are you going to settle it now?
4
SPEAKER_00
This is the moment.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m trying to think about what I d actually do.
4
SPEAKER_00
In the Hollywood movie, I d be like, hey, what s the deal?
4
SPEAKER_01
In your mid-Atlantic accent.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes, hey, you re bringing us out here and embarrassing us with your superior mushrooms?
4
SPEAKER_00
No, I wouldn t actually have the courage to do that.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
4
SPEAKER_00
I still would try to talk to him.
4
SPEAKER_01
What Izzy does is she s chatting with people.
4
SPEAKER_01
She s like, me and Rosa and Yvonne are going to go to this bar afterward today if anyone wants to come.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, she s so good, her soft diplomacy.
4
SPEAKER_01
And some people are like, I m done here.
4
SPEAKER_01
Now that I know what s going on, I m out.
4
SPEAKER_01
Goodbye, you ll see me never.
4
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, goodbye.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s still like 10 of them, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
And so they go to this bar, and Izzy is like, what are we going to do here?
4
SPEAKER_01
Do we all stop coming?
4
SPEAKER_01
Do we start just foraging by ourselves?
4
SPEAKER_01
Do we stop mushrooming entirely?
4
SPEAKER_01
And everyone s like, no, I don t want to stop looking for mushrooms.
4
SPEAKER_01
I like doing this.
4
SPEAKER_01
This is my hobby now, and I like to do it in my free time.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re like, this is my special thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
But they re all also like, it s fucked up that we don t know where the special grove is.
4
SPEAKER_01
So they decide they re going back next week, and they re going to follow him.
4
SPEAKER_00
Brilliant.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s week four.
4
SPEAKER_01
Everyone shows up in all black.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, trends in action.
4
SPEAKER_00
Week four, isn t that $160 that has each been given?
4
SPEAKER_01
It sure is.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s crazy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Everyone is like following behind Theo from afar.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re like trying to track him, trying to see where he s going, like trying to keep separate.
4
SPEAKER_01
Somebody s like, I saw him in a meadow and he came back with a fancy mushroom.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so they like go in there.
4
SPEAKER_01
No more fancy mushrooms.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_01
Someone else is like, I saw him by that weird gnarly tree and he returned with two different fancy mushrooms.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so like, they go scampering over there and there are none left.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s as if like, the mushrooms are just like, appearing out of the ground for him alone.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s week five.
4
SPEAKER_01
Everyone has returned again.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because they re like, we found nothing.
4
SPEAKER_01
We made no progress and we want it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so that s, he s made $200 from each person.
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you know about the sunk cost fallacy?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
Can you explain it?
4
SPEAKER_00
When you ve already invested so much in something, you don t want to give it up.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
A good example to me is waiting for the bus, where you re like, the bus is supposed to be here in eight minutes.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then it s been eight minutes.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then it s been 12 minutes.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then it s been 16 minutes.
4
SPEAKER_01
And you re like, I m just going to keep- Surely it must come.
4
SPEAKER_01
Surely it will come eventually, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
The problem is sometimes it doesn t.
4
SPEAKER_00
If I leave now, I ll miss it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
So you have a pretty deep sunk cost fallacy going on here, which is that you ve spent five weeks in this forest with this man and $200 plus the outfits you ve bought.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
And the bangs, which you now have to keep up.
4
SPEAKER_00
The friends you ve made along the way.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s, you know, a lot has happened.
4
SPEAKER_01
How many more weeks are you willing to do this?
4
SPEAKER_00
Me?
4
SPEAKER_00
None.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m not made of this much patience.
4
SPEAKER_01
Our girls go week six.
4
SPEAKER_01
What?
4
SPEAKER_01
They go week seven.
4
SPEAKER_00
No.
4
SPEAKER_01
By week eight, there s only like six people left.
4
SPEAKER_01
Today, Izzy is the one that is like following him.
4
SPEAKER_01
She s right on his trail.
4
SPEAKER_01
He like disappears from her sight and he emerges from behind a tree with like a gorgeous giant mushroom.
4
SPEAKER_01
How did he do that?
4
SPEAKER_01
She goes back there and once he s out of sight, she s like looking around like crazy, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
She s like, how the fuck did he do this?
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, where is this mushroom?
4
SPEAKER_01
And then she spies like through the brambles of this brush, like a kind of open area.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, hmm.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so she pushes her little body through there.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s like, it s so pokey to get through the brambles.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then she gets through, and it s like dark, like there s a lot of like leaf overhang.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so it s like really dark and really damp, full tree cover.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s this huge empty space in there.
4
SPEAKER_01
And everywhere are these like excellent mushrooms.
4
SPEAKER_00
No.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
5
SPEAKER_01
She s like, I did it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Amazing.
5
SPEAKER_01
You ve found the secret spot.
5
SPEAKER_01
You did it.
5
SPEAKER_01
You have all of these magical mushrooms at your disposal.
5
SPEAKER_01
We re back to the kind of question we started at the beginning, which is the tension between community and individualism.
5
SPEAKER_01
Do you tell the other people about the secret spot?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, 100%.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s the whole point why you re going to mushrooms, to be with people and enjoy it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you just wanted nice mushrooms, you just go to the store.
5
SPEAKER_00
And also to gloat, to be like, I found the spot.
5
SPEAKER_01
And you want everyone to be like, praise me.
5
SPEAKER_00
Wow, you did it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, totally.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m like, come on.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, praise me.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, I m not going to eat all these.
5
SPEAKER_00
She s leading this team through the brambles.
5
SPEAKER_01
They re so excited.
5
SPEAKER_01
They re thrilled.
5
SPEAKER_01
Everyone s like using their knife to take just a few mushrooms, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
Not too many.
5
SPEAKER_01
They re like brushing them off.
5
SPEAKER_01
They re putting them in their baskets.
5
SPEAKER_01
They re like, we did it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_01
At the end of this hike, as happens every single week, you basically lay your mushrooms out before Theo, and he judges them.
5
SPEAKER_00
I- that- ugh.
5
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_01
Izzy presents her mushroom this week, and Theo is like, oh my god, this is a great mushroom.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, where did you get this?
5
SPEAKER_01
Do you tell him?
5
SPEAKER_00
No.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m like, I ll never tell.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Give him a taste of his own medicine.
5
SPEAKER_01
Izzy is like,
5
SPEAKER_01
the same place as you got yours.
5
SPEAKER_01
And Theo s like, I seriously doubt that.
5
SPEAKER_01
And Izzy s like, no, I did.
5
SPEAKER_01
I found the secret spot you bragged about that was only for fourth dates, and now we all know where it is.
5
SPEAKER_01
We all know that you went on dates with us.
5
SPEAKER_01
Look.
5
SPEAKER_01
And now everyone s bringing up their fancy mushrooms to show Theo.
5
SPEAKER_01
Fancy mushrooms left and right, a whole table of fancy mushrooms.
5
SPEAKER_01
And Theo is like, I m really proud of you guys.
5
SPEAKER_01
These are great mushrooms.
5
SPEAKER_01
Really good job, everyone.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s like, but these aren t from my spot.
5
SPEAKER_01
What?
5
SPEAKER_01
And everyone s like, how do you fucking know that?
5
SPEAKER_01
What are you talking about?
5
SPEAKER_01
And Rosa is like, what is so great about your spot?
5
SPEAKER_01
We found this spot.
5
SPEAKER_01
We have all these mushrooms.
5
SPEAKER_01
Stop being rude.
5
SPEAKER_01
And Theo s like, part of foraging is having your secret spot, spaces that are just for you.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I would never have brought you guys near the spot where I forage alone.
5
SPEAKER_01
That would cut into my own supply.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I m so glad that you found a spot of your own.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, ew.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, this idea of like, well, the thing about nature is carving it out for yourself and owning it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Is he s like, so you brought us to a sub par mushroom forest.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
And you guided us in darkness and like made us pay $40 to join your like mushroom cult.
5
SPEAKER_01
It feels like I m not what I m not running a mushroom cult.
5
SPEAKER_01
And Izzy s like, look at us.
5
SPEAKER_01
We re all wearing black.
5
SPEAKER_01
And he s like, I never told anyone to wear black.
5
SPEAKER_01
What do you think here?
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s true.
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He didn t tell them to wear black.
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How do you distinguish between a group trend and a top-down leadership?
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Oh, I mean, he did really get them, he did introduce them to each other, he did get them inspired about the thing.
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I feel like he knows not what he s done, maybe, to give him the benefit of the doubt and be like, he genuinely thinks he s doing an innocent thing without realizing how absolutely... I mean, listen.
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When Izzy was looking for friends, she turned to the dating site.
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Yeah.
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She is no different than Theo.
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No angels here.
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No angels here.
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That s the thing.
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Like, I m sure he was like, well, what do you mean?
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I just happened to have found all my friends.
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I just happened to invite people that I connected with not in a romantic way on a dating app to come foraging with me in the forest.
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What s wrong with that?
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Yeah.
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He probably just has no idea how weird it is.
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If I give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Okay.
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We are almost at the end.
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Whose side are you on at this point?
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Oh, Kelsey, I see both sides.
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I see.
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Well, beautiful.
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No, no.
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You know, I m sorry.
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I m on Theo s side.
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Because again, if I were like, she s been playing into this.
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Sorry.
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Yeah, no, that s a great.
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She didn t need any.
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No one was making her do this.
5
Yeah.
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And also she got her she found amazing Grove and she doesn t need him anymore.
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Like
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And she found friends.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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Like it s like, yeah, you paid, you know, many hundreds of dollars.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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But you got a mushroom forging spot and the knowledge of how to forge mushrooms and two friends.
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Like it s not the worst.
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It s kind of a win win.
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But I am still curious about like what what this is.
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Do you want to hear my final notes?
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Oh, yeah.
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Okay, so Yvonne and Rosa and Izzy became like very close friends and they are still friends and they go mushroom foraging every week to their special spot, which is very cute.
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That s beautiful.
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And a few months later, after this whole ordeal, they saw a group of three girls waiting by the table.
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No, no, no, no, no.
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SPEAKER_00
No.
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Would you go over there?
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Yeah.
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Yeah?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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You re going over there.
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They re going over there.
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They re like, what s up, girls?
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What are you doing?
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And they re like, oh, we re going to go on a foraging lesson.
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This guy s going to take us on a foraging lesson.
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And they re like, is that guy Theo?
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And the girls are like, yeah, that s so crazy.
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Do you know him?
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And the girls are like, oh, yeah, we went on that foraging trip.
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I wouldn t go with him.
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It s a bit of a weird guy.
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They re like, we ll teach you for free.
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Beautiful.
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Beautiful!
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And so now, our girls are running basically a little foraging tutorial that is free.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh!
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Beautiful!
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SPEAKER_00
I know.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s what I mean, foraging for everybody.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Foraging for all.
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And they re running their little thing.
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They don t CPO again.
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SPEAKER_00
What?
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They re like, yeah, exactly.
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They re like, isn t that weird?
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We haven t seen him.
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He was supposed to meet these girls, and then we absorbed the girls into our group, and he showed up, they weren t there, he left, and now we haven t seen him again.
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So if we haven t seen him and we re here every week, was this really his spot?
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Yeah, how far away was his superior spot?
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About a year later, after this whole ordeal, Izzy goes to the farmer s market.
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And she runs into Alice, our trinity star, our girlina with the bangs.
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Yes, with the beautiful huge eyes.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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Yes.
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Alice frantically waves Izzy over.
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And Izzy s like, Alice, it s so good to see you.
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What s up?
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And Izzy s like, I cannot believe that I did not have your number.
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I didn t have anyone in the group s number.
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She s like, but something has happened.
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And Izzy s like, what happened?
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Six months after this group dissolved, Alice started working at this stand at the farmer s market.
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And she s like, I really liked it.
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But all of the men who worked at the stand with Alice fucking hated Theo.
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And they were like, he s manipulative.
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He s judgmental.
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He s a faker.
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And the guys told her that he was buying the mushrooms that he was showing off from a farmer s market fucking stand and like posting them to Instagram as his own.
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What a tool!
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What an absolute tool!
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This man has never had a secret foraging spot.
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Okay, but I admire it as a magic trick, honestly.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, how did he hide them?
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SPEAKER_00
How did he reveal them?
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It s an illusion.
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly!
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SPEAKER_00
Like, the forethought of, like, hiding mushrooms in your little sleeves and your pockets and things like that.
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You know, I just want to give a hats off for the elaborateness of the ruse.
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SPEAKER_00
You know, it s pretty impressive.
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The con is precise.
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The con is precise.
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It is impressive.
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And he didn t even get laid from it.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, what for?
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He didn t even get laid.
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All he got was some money.
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Money that I m sure he spent a large proportion of it on these mushrooms.
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Buying mushrooms.
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Yes.
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Buying expensive, rare mushrooms.
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SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
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Wow.
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So in the end, the secret mushroom spot that our girls found was always theirs.
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Aww.
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And never his.
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SPEAKER_01
That s beautiful.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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Whose side are you on now?
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SPEAKER_01
Have you changed your mind?
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, again, I do really appreciate the dexterity of the con.
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I love it.
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SPEAKER_00
I m sorry.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, yeah, but obviously, obviously I m excited for the real mushroomers of this story.
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SPEAKER_01
It really is a democracy of mushrooms.
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SPEAKER_00
Just beautiful.
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Mushrooms for all.
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Wow.
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And it does ultimately, at the end, validate my thesis that you can just buy mushrooms.
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Avery, thank you so much for coming on the show.
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It was a delight to have you.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, thank you very much.
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SPEAKER_00
This is a great story.
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This podcast is produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin and Ozzy Linas Goodman.
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Justin Ellis is Defector s Projects Editor.
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Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defector s Business Guides.
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guys.
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Tom Ley is our editor-in-chief.
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Jay Tolviera is our associate producer.
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Abigail Siegel is our intern.
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Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store.
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Tara Jacoby designed our show art.
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Thank you to Jasper Wang, Catherine Hsu, Patrick Redford, Israel Deramola, Ray Rado, Chris Thompson, David Roth, Dave McKenna, and Luis Paez-Pumar for your help on this season.
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And thanks to the rest of the Defector staff.
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Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company, and Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.
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I m Kelsey McKinney, and please remember, you did not hear this from me.
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Radiotopia from PRX.