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Welcome to the Art of Charm.
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I m your host, Jordan Harbinger.
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I m here with producer Jason DeFilippo.
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Here at AOC, we may not have all the answers, but we certainly have plenty of questions, and today on Fan Mail Friday, those questions come from you.
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If you re new to the Art of Charm podcast, Fan Mail Friday, probably not the best place to start, at least not in my opinion.
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Most of our content is interview-based, it s more in-depth, it s a longer format, so check out the best of at theartofcharm.com slash best, or the Fundamentals Toolbox at theartofcharm.com slash toolbox.
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That s where we ve got a whole bunch of, well, toolbox episodes like nonverbal communication, reading body language, mechanics of attraction, negotiation techniques, networking, influence, persuasion, everything else we teach here at The Art of Charm, and we ll send all that to your inbox if you text charmed, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444 here in the States, or anywhere else, just go to theartofcharm.com.
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All right, let s cut to it.
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Hi Jordan, I ve been listening to your show for a few years now and love the actionable advice across so many important areas of life.
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I m currently in the process of securing full-time employment and have gotten an offer to work on a contract basis until Thanksgiving with a local startup, at which point they will tender me an offer competitive with what I ve been interviewing for.
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Even though I really like the company, and especially the team, it s clearly in my best interest to approach them with the highest offers I can negotiate.
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Over the course of the last week, I ve been extended offers and serious callbacks from large companies and interesting local startups that I m interested in exploring more deeply.
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How do I balance the need to find the best fit for me, both monetarily and culturally, with being transparent with the people who believed in me from the get-go?
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Sincerely, Juxtaposed Johnny.
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Hey Johnny, for me, you really have to balance cultural and monetary fit with transparency.
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So I think you re correct there.
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It doesn t mean that you owe allegiance to the earlier firm just because they came first.
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It just means you have to be honest with them about what you are looking for.
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And this is something they ll be grateful for because
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If you select them just because they came first but the fit isn t there, they and you will be paying a heavier price down the line for that bad fit.
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So keep it professional, keep it friendly, and pick the offer and company that s best for you while keeping relationships and communication with all the firms that gave you the time of day.
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So, I m not saying there s no such thing as loyalty.
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I mean, I definitely think that if you re gonna leave and they re gonna be screwed over somehow, then that s something to take into consideration, but I think they ll be grateful that they have a better fit, and they ll be happy that you re being honest with them, and what they won t be happy is if
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you start lollygagging or you don t like where you are a few months or years later and then you regret not making enough money from them because you had a better offer and that s affecting your performance, et cetera, et cetera.
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Trust me, as an employer, we always just rather know and handle the problem early rather than dealing with the consequences of not handling the problem later on.
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All right, next up.
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Hi Jordan, I ve been listening to your podcast for over a year now, and though it hasn t been that long in the grand scheme of the duration of the show, I ve probably managed to listen to every single episode during that time.
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A little background.
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I was always good in school, but a little aimless.
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Was never someone who knew exactly what I wanted to do.
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So when college came around, I couldn t commit to a university, believing that I needed to have a major chosen before I could even think about which school would be the best for me.
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So I ended up in community college, as most people in my position do.
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I took nearly every class and changed my major four times, eventually ending right where I started with graphic design.
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Only it was seven years and 120 credit hours later, and I only had an Associate of Applied Science degree.
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During my time in college, I started working for a public accounting firm as a receptionist, eventually moving to administrative assistant.
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The company provided outstanding pay, benefits, and time off for the position I had, and as it turned out, substantially better than every single graphic design position I applied for thereafter.
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I ended up staying with the firm, and eventually decided I wasn t passionate enough about graphic design to continue.
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A very, very, very high level of passion is required to succeed, especially now in the age of sites like DesignCrowd, and I would be better off trying to grow my skills in marketing instead.
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So I started volunteering for more marketing-related projects in my administrative role, in hopes that I could transfer to the firm s marketing department.
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This didn t come to fruition for years due to departmental degree requirements, but I did manage to build a cache of goodwill within the firm.
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Finally, two years ago, after putting in eight years with the firm, a position became available that had been created specifically for me, in that there was no degree requirement.
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The caveat was that there was no upward mobility unless I got the degree, which I haven t even started yet.
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This is problem number one.
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Problem number two is that my current position and where I would like my career to go within marketing involves a lot of outward facing events where I m tasked with networking and business development among CFOs and CEOs with advanced degrees.
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As you re aware, the Midwest is still years behind the rest of the country in many areas, including accepting a lack of advanced degree, especially in this conservative industry.
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This presents itself in the immediate judgment I get when asked the ubiquitous mixer question, where did you go to school?
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The Midwest is also very big into college pride, and everyone knows the major schools, and since my degree is from a community college, my education level is established by answering that one simple question.
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I truly do believe that I m good at my job, and based on the performance of many of my counterparts who do have an advanced degree, I don t actually think going back to school would help me in any tangible way.
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And to be honest, the idea of going back after spending seven years there already is definitely unappealing, especially if it s just for a piece of paper that will confirm I can do the job I already do.
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I think lifelong learning on my own terms is a far more valuable use of my time, and I ve taken classes with OpenIDEO and Coursera, as well as reading and listening to podcasts.
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Anyway, I guess my first question is this.
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Am I right in my refusal to go back to school with the thinking that my 10 years of experience and history of being promoted anyway should be enough, or should I suck it up for the guarantee?
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Second, how do I answer the question of where I went to school without having to worry about being put in the uneducated bucket?
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Thanks in advance for the advice.
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Signed, Julie.
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I don t really know that many people talking about colleges or where people went to school.
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And it may be the same in the Midwest.
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Maybe you re just hypersensitive to it, but I ll tell you right now, when people are looking for jobs and things like that, it shows up on the resume, but we re much more concerned with experience, which you already have.
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And I think that experience should be allowed to speak for itself.
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Look, find out if you can do an online degree if they really require it, and make them pay for it, like Donald Trump.
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Do the degree and make them pay for it.
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But I don t, man, it s too bad, because it really is just kind of a BS formality.
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Sure, if you re in a trade or a specific skill, you can get a degree based on,
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learning some of those trades or some of that trade or some of those skills.
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So it s not going to be completely useless.
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But I ll tell you, it s probably not worth going to, say, the University of Michigan, my alma mater, paying, I don t know, what does it cost now 120 grand for a bachelor s degree, and taking a bunch of anthropology courses, because you got general ed requirements, it s just not worth it, in my opinion, it s the value is not going to be there.
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So
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I really do think it s a bummer you re in this predicament because it does seem in many ways like the perfect storm.
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However, if you can get an advanced education, make them pay for it, and do something that s not going to take full time and take away from your regular career development, then go for it.
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But don t worry about not having the cachet of somebody who went to school.
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I ll tell you a really quick story.
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I know a guy who s a venture capitalist, successful guy, has a cool company, works with a bunch of partners here on the West Coast, and I think he s in his mid to late 50s,
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and he s still very self-conscious about not having a degree, and he often thinks about going back to school just so that he can have that.
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He says that he feels judged, but I will tell you right now, in entrepreneur land, which is also where he s working, because he s acquiring tech companies, none of us care.
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We re not even thinking about it.
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It s what you ve worked on, and honestly, I probably care more about what you look like online and what your business is doing than any degree that you could possibly have.
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Now, I won t say that s the same for everyone, but I will say that in terms of things that matter and are important over time, a college degree wanes in importance over time as your experience becomes more and more valuable and nobody even questions it anymore.
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For a list of all of our amazing sponsors and discount codes, visit theartofcharm.com slash advertisers.
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Now, back to Fan Mail Friday.
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All right, next up.
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Dear recovering lawyer, after many years of substance abuse and hitting rock bottom, I am now on track to getting my life back.
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I am new to your podcast.
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Wow.
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My life had spiraled out of control, and today I find myself in a very different situation.
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Only positive things surround me.
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I am struggling with confidence and believing in myself, though.
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I do plan to go to law school, and I am majoring in law.
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Don t judge me.
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My sobriety has taught me so much about self-love, and I am very involved with meditation and positive affirmations.
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I m almost two years sober.
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I m in a loving relationship with a very nice man.
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He s successful and his network is full of happy, solid, and intimidating professionals.
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Completely silly, but I feel embarrassed that I m not a lawyer yet.
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We do have an age difference of seven years.
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I m not concerned about my future, but I m struggling to feel like I fit in.
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I went as far as to delete my social media accounts until my credentials are better.
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I ve struggled with giving myself credit for my accomplishments, and I feel like I could be better.
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In class, when we discuss cases, I often know the answer but fail to chime in.
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Once the professor has had enough of the wrong answers, she explains the answer I had in my head.
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Why is it so hard for me to trust in myself?
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People that knew me at my lowest tried to tell me how great I m doing, yet I feel like a failure for not being a judge already or a prominent surgeon.
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I suspect a lot of this comes from my family.
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It seems as if they almost resent that I won t conform.
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I almost have a 4.0, and this is my first time in college in 8 years.
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I dropped out of high school to do drugs, drink, and hang out with losers.
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Despite me getting good grades, being sober, and becoming a better person in general, they don t have positive feedback.
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I know I screwed up in the past, but I am now ready to open up to my potential.
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During my early stages of recovery, I had plenty of professional help.
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This, my feelings that I don t measure up are true since childhood.
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My negative family does not help and I almost feel guilty for joining a winning team and leaving them behind.
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I want to be happy, but I feel like they get upset, maybe even envious that I m getting my life together.
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Your loyal listener, Monica.
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Hey, Monica, I m very sorry to hear that you re in this situation.
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I m very proud of you as well for taking responsibility for past failures and working on yourself.
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That s a tough bridge to cross for a lot of people.
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And it s a long journey.
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And everybody who goes that way knows that it is.
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And so I m very happy to hear that you re in recovery.
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I think that s
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I think that s amazing and I think you re probably doing a great job, especially if you re listening to AOC and putting these lessons into action.
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Now the problem is that a lot of folks, and this goes for everybody, not just people with addiction problems, but a lot of people in your family, your close friends, they see you as the way they ve always seen you.
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and it s really hard for them to change years or decades of impressions overnight because they do know the past you and they do expect a certain type of behavior from you even if you re trying to change.
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And so this is going to involve what I call protecting your mind, protecting your mind.
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And what that is is when people tell you you can t do this or I ve known you forever and you ve never done that, you have to realize that they don t know
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Because even you don t necessarily know all that you can do.
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You re just pretty damn sure that you can do it.
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And you re doing it right now, which is the good news.
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So even if people don t believe you can do it, the proof is in the pudding and you re doing it right now.
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So that proves that they don t know what they re talking about.
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but the reason that they have that impression of you is because, well, in fairness, it s been a long time that you ve been doing other things and behaving in a different way.
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So you need to protect your mind by realizing that they don t necessarily know.
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And you also have to limit contact with some people, and of course, cut other people out of your life.
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People who are enabling you, you might want to limit contact, but people who are bringing you back down, some of your old friends, substance abusers, things like that, you need to absolutely not have contact with them at all.
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The other unfortunate truth is there s going to be some very small percentage, and again, very, very small percentage, of people that don t want to see you grow.
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And sometimes they simply can t see you grow no matter what.
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And you can t take that personally.
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You can t worry about whether or not everybody s going to approve of the new you.
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You can t.
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This is for your health, your sanity, and for your life.
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And a lot of people who care about you, they may be trying to protect you from failure.
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So in other words, it s like,
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Even now, when I tell my mom, hey, look, we re gonna launch this new product, it s gonna be so great, she ll say things like, well, don t get your hopes up too high, right?
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It s not because my mom wants me to fail, it s because she wants me to not feel bad if I fall down and scrape my knees.
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She wants me to come up laughing and not crying, right?
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And this has everything to do with them.
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Maybe the person you used to be, this has to do with, but it has nothing to do with who you are now.
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So people are trying to protect you from failure, but this doesn t necessarily have to do with who you are becoming.
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Parents will always see us as naive children, and people who we used to drink and do drugs with will always see us as people who drink and do drugs.
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That s just the way it is.
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It has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with them.
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That said, you might need to find, and should find, a new supportive network, and I hope that that is happening through your 12-step programs and other things like that, professional help.
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So you might have to lean on that supportive new network for a lot of help, but hey, that s what it s there for.
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It ll help you protect your mind, it ll help you limit contact with the wrong people, and this new network should be full of people who do wanna see you grow.
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So good luck and keep in touch, Monica.
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All right, next up.
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Howdy, AOC.
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Over the past several years, I ve had a few very bad experiences involving gossip at work.
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My venting about another difficult coworker in private was overheard by that coworker and escalated to her trying to get me fired.
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Later, a supervisor tried to pit me against my other coworkers using gossip.
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I m not known as a gossip or pot stirrer, but I was involved nonetheless.
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Those experiences scarred me enough that I m resolved to stay away from it entirely.
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Yet it seems to be a ubiquitous and inevitable feature of any job I ve ever had before or since.
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There are office politics.
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Once people get to know each other, they develop bonds with some and negative opinions about others.
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Everyone talks a little smack, whether male, female, old or young, et cetera.
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If you don t participate, maybe you aren t part of the team or you re a goody two shoes.
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Sometimes people are just venting.
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Sometimes they re divulging personal information they shouldn t about others.
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And sometimes they re straight up lying.
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How can I successfully manage my relationships at work without getting too involved in gossip?
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Do I never truly befriend anyone in favor of avoiding all the drama?
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Thanks and love the show.
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Non gossip girl in Texas.
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Hey, non gossip girl.
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Look, I really appreciate you being a fan.
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Love the question.
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Really good timely question because a lot of folks have been sending this in the past couple weeks.
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I don t know what it is.
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maybe the holiday is approaching, increase gossip, or maybe people have just had it up to here, but the bottom line is you should not gossip.
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The benefits are not worth the drawbacks.
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There are many other good ways to bond with coworkers, because that s probably one of the only benefits, is it kind of creates a little secret conspiracy alliance between you and whoever you re speaking with.
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I think there s many other ways to bond with coworkers really well.
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I think when this happens, when you re around it, you should change the subject when it happens and spend less time with those people who cannot stop doing that.
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I think that s really, really important.
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You can t be around it.
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You ve got to take responsibility for making sure it doesn t happen.
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and if you can t, then you gotta stop hanging out with those same people.
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You can really easily get sucked in and that ll be bad for you.
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It s very much guilt by association.
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You re out to lunch with four people, they re all gossiping and you re there, well, guess what?
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You re still there.
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If you really can t change the behavior or the people that you re around, of course you can t change their behavior, but if you can t change the people that you re around and thereby change your own behavior, you gotta change your environment if it won t stop.
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Look, I know it seems like it s everywhere.
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It s that there s gossipy.
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people everywhere, but not all workplaces are gossipy environments, at least not in a bad way.
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Some are much more fun, some of the gossip s a little more lighthearted.
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It tends to circulate around certain people.
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Those people are insecure, and they re using gossip as a way to bring other people down.
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And that s bad, because again, do you want to be someone who brings other people down, or do you want to be somebody who brings other people up, and has those people bring you up as a result?
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And I think the answer s pretty obvious.
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But remember, that s the long game.
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The long game is bringing other people up and hoping for reciprocity and counting on reciprocity.
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The short game is cutting everyone off at the knees with things like gossip and the long game is always the game that wins.
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Let me tell you, over time, you do want to be playing the long game.
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It s the only way to be truly successful and frankly, to be really happy about that success as well.
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Alright, next question.
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Hi AOC team.
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First of all, I want to thank you all for the work you guys do.
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I love your podcast.
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SPEAKER_00
I ve been following you for years and find it very useful, especially having in mind my profession.
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I m from Los Angeles and just graduated from acting school.
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I m so ready to go out and start my career.
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I also have a boyfriend and I m very much in love.
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We ve been together for two years now and everything is amazing.
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Except.
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My boyfriend is not too thrilled knowing I m going to have some love scenes or kissing scenes with other guys during my career.
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SPEAKER_00
When I was still in school, I used to avoid every situation or scene where I d have to kiss my partner not to upset my boyfriend.
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SPEAKER_00
But now, out in the real world, I don t have the luxury to say no to opportunities just because I might have a kissing scene.
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SPEAKER_00
My boyfriend says he understands my situation, but I see that he is clearly upset by it and even becomes cold and distant when we talk about it.
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I don t know what to do.
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Please shine me a light.
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Sincerely, actress in distress.
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Hey, actress in distress or actor.
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since i believe that actresses award i don t know is it isn t it just actor everyone s an actor actresses kind of a new thing with the anyway whatever we can uh... we can start that later my theory my opinion anyway this is his problem this is his insecurity and what he unfortunately what you need to ask yourself is
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What do you love more, acting or being in a relationship with this particular person?
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Not being in a relationship in general, being in a relationship with this particular person.
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Now, of course, you re gonna say that you love both, and so if you do love both, you owe it to him.
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and to yourself to have him get help for his issue.
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You re doing nothing wrong.
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You are doing nothing wrong.
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I really want to be super clear on that.
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This is part of your job and will likely always be a part of your job.
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The idea that he sees this as something that affects him showcases, well, frankly, a little bit of possessiveness and a lot of insecurity.
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And this will eventually ruin your relationship if it s not handled because it s not just going to be, oh, I had to kiss some guy in a love scene.
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Which to me just seems like a very obvious difference between that and real life, but I digress.
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This insecurity, the possessiveness, it s gonna show up in other ways.
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It s not going to just be kissing and love scenes.
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So you gotta be very conscious of that, because that is, it s not just that you, you could do everything that he wants.
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You could quit your job, you could quit the acting job, and it won t solve the problem.
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His insecurity will manifest somewhere else, like being jealous if you have male co-workers at your new job, or you can t hang out with any of your male friends anymore that you ve known your whole life.
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This is his problem.
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He needs to get it fixed, with or without your help.
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Hope you all enjoyed that.
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Don t forget you can email us at Friday at TheArtOfCharm.com to get your questions answered on the air.
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A link to the show notes for this episode can be found at TheArtOfCharm.com slash FMF87.
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Also, don t forget about the AOC challenge.
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Text CHARMED, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D to 33444 in the U.S.
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Everywhere else you can go to TheArtOfCharm.com.
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will take you step-by-step on becoming better at making personal and professional connections, becoming a better networker, increasing your personal social capital, your charisma, and it s for both guys and gals, so check that out.
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Text CHARMED, C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444 in the U.S., or if you re not, just go to theartofcharm.com.
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By the way, I do a lot of speaking these days as well, so if you re interested in having me come and speak to your organization, especially companies, schools, et cetera, just reach out to me here, jordanattheartofcharm.com.
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Quick shout out to Sheila and Hari Nadiminti.
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Yes, Nadiminti, I think.
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Doctors on the East Coast, husband and wife team that listens to AOC on the regular.
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Are you in a strange land listening to my familiar voice?
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If so, hit me up and I ll shout you out.
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More from AOC at theartofcharm.com.
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including, of course, info on our live residential boot camps that we run every single week here in L.A.
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So if you really want to dig into this stuff and work on your AOC skills with us as your coaches, that s the best way to do that.
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That s bootcamp.theartofcharm.com.
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Now, stay charming, get out there and connect, and leave everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to The Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and more at theartofcharmpodcast.com.