SPEAKER_01
Welcome to the Sell or Die podcast.
SPEAKER_01
I m your host, Jeffrey Gittler.
SPEAKER_01
Well, in this podcast, we re going to help you attract more qualified, unbelievable, ready to buy clients.
SPEAKER_01
And the one thing you re hoping for, blows more deals.
SPEAKER_01
It s time to sell or die.
SPEAKER_03
Diehard, we have a college professor with us today.
SPEAKER_03
Don t be too alarmed.
SPEAKER_03
He actually knows what he s talking about.
SPEAKER_03
His name is Brandon Tchaikovsky, and he is an amazing professor who doesn t go by the rules.
SPEAKER_03
Is that cool or what?
SPEAKER_03
And he s looking to teach salespeople how to make a sale when they finish.
SPEAKER_03
Keep in mind that there is a tremendous paradox in the university program.
SPEAKER_03
You know, the colleges are controversial today to say the least.
SPEAKER_03
But the essence of it is if you go to any school for an MBA, Harvard, Yale, any of the Ivy League schools, any big school in the country, half the professors have never had a job.
SPEAKER_03
They re academics that are trying to teach you how to succeed in the real world.
SPEAKER_03
And that becomes a tough issue.
SPEAKER_03
However,
SPEAKER_03
However, Brandon has taken on the responsibility of not just doing it, but writing a book about it so that it becomes academic proof that what he s saying is reality.
SPEAKER_03
Hold up your book, Brandon.
SPEAKER_00
You got it.
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
SPEAKER_03
Sales millionaires, industry tales and life lessons from those who made it and
SPEAKER_03
That would not have been my subtitle.
SPEAKER_03
My subtitle would be, it is Industry Tales and Life Lessons from Those Who Fucking Did It.
SPEAKER_03
That would be my subtitle.
SPEAKER_03
But what do I know?
SPEAKER_03
I think if you don t have the F-bomb in your title anymore, your book won t sell.
SPEAKER_03
Crazy.
SPEAKER_03
So how did you come to write the book?
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
SPEAKER_00
I can tell you right now that I am controversial in the university space because I believe sales is noble.
SPEAKER_00
It helps people and I think it s inevitable that everyone who understands sales in a way that the 21st century is positioned for sales, which is really about aligning value and offering value, will be better empowered.
SPEAKER_00
And this is a space typically in the university environment of coddling and cultural noise and protest culture and things that make
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely no sense when it comes to business ethos and operating business.
SPEAKER_00
And so what I do is just focus on the thing that matters.
SPEAKER_00
And this book was written because I kept interviewing people that had made millions of dollars helping people.
SPEAKER_00
And they were great people themselves.
SPEAKER_00
And their lessons, I thought, should have been organized in a book.
SPEAKER_00
And that s exactly what I did.
SPEAKER_03
So my philosophy has always been sell to help.
SPEAKER_03
And that s part of the alignment that I feel with you literally immediately.
SPEAKER_03
But I think more importantly, we are in an economy and an environment of selling where they ve tried to make sales more complicated and more complex when it s really pretty damn simple.
SPEAKER_03
You know, I m a cold caller in New York City where fuck you is a greeting and everybody wants a bribe.
SPEAKER_03
But the bottom line was, I could get to a CEO easily.
SPEAKER_03
Now, you have to take nine courses in sales enablement, which I honestly cannot give you a definition for.
SPEAKER_03
I think it s something that weak salespeople have to deal with so they can add yet one more thing to their Salesforce software.
SPEAKER_03
But for me personally, I m interested in what caused you to talk to all these people.
SPEAKER_03
What made you do these interviews?
SPEAKER_00
I work closely with a friend named Dr. Zach Hall.
SPEAKER_00
And like me, he s been in many jobs.
SPEAKER_00
Some of them, we took some serious nose beatings.
SPEAKER_00
And in our sales training, we just did it.
SPEAKER_00
And some of the training we had maybe didn t even make much sense because we were being taught by folks who couldn t succeed in sales.
SPEAKER_00
That s why they were in training positions.
SPEAKER_00
What we learned is we had to do due diligence, have a pipeline that made sense.
SPEAKER_00
And then when we did connect with anyone, whether C-suite or other, that
SPEAKER_00
We had done enough background and understanding of who they are to not waste their time.
SPEAKER_00
And then to listen through, and that active listening comes through questions that are informed.
SPEAKER_00
And then once we understand what a customer needs, then if we have value to offer, we do.
SPEAKER_00
And if we don t, then we absolutely don t sell them.
SPEAKER_00
So this whole methodology or this whole philosophic approach is something that s just simply not taught in most universities.
SPEAKER_00
So we started the TCU sales center and the sales center began with 13 students.
SPEAKER_00
And then just three years later, we had over 260 enrolled with a waiting list of over 140.
SPEAKER_00
And so now we know there s demand and
SPEAKER_00
There s it s really gotten so so demanding in terms of the amount of yearning that our students have for something that s difficult and something that s applied in something that s real for them and their career and also that is valued in the marketplace that the average starting.
SPEAKER_00
earnings for target earnings year one among our graduates is $86,600 with many six-figure placements.
SPEAKER_00
So, you know, imagine being 22, you spend $100,000 on college, you make $100,000 back that first year.
SPEAKER_00
That s really what this could be about.
SPEAKER_03
Okay, so I m a college student and I m looking at my major when I m a freshman and I can either take business and sales or marine biology.
SPEAKER_03
What do you recommend?
SPEAKER_00
Well, much of this has to do with mapping out a career path and also going to a university where you re close to your home environment or a place where you ll live for the next several decades.
SPEAKER_00
I know that seems a bit traditionalist, but the reason is because it s leveraged.
SPEAKER_00
These are resources you can use.
SPEAKER_00
So the major is also not dependent on your future in many ways, because what s taught is somewhat abstract.
SPEAKER_00
I can also tell you this, that our sales center, the TCU sales center, is open for all majors.
SPEAKER_00
And some of the best students we have come from outside the business discipline.
SPEAKER_03
And of course, you re in Fort Worth, Texas, which means you have to be wanting to live near your job and near the best barbecue place.
SPEAKER_03
Those are two very important parts of the Dallas metropolitan area or the Dallas Fort Worth area.
SPEAKER_03
People say Dallas and they only say Fort Worth maybe 20% of the time.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, Fort Worth is a totally different animal.
SPEAKER_00
For one, we just treat people well.
SPEAKER_00
We have parking.
SPEAKER_00
Our housing prices are not out of control yet.
SPEAKER_03
You have the stockyard.
SPEAKER_03
You have amazing places in Fort Worth that people don t even understand.
SPEAKER_00
That s correct.
SPEAKER_00
And look, our police can do their job.
SPEAKER_00
We have technocrats in office who are not ideologically driven by parties.
SPEAKER_00
And this will likely change like most big cities.
SPEAKER_00
It s unfortunate.
SPEAKER_00
But right now, our DA mostly can do their job.
SPEAKER_00
And there are things that make sense.
SPEAKER_00
And so the proprietors and families can build companies here and then raise their kiddos and know that things are going to work.
SPEAKER_00
And that s important.
SPEAKER_00
We re one of the last cities of our size that still have those kind of values and ethos.
SPEAKER_00
I think, in principle, it s part of why TCU is successful.
SPEAKER_00
We re not an overly politicized campus.
SPEAKER_00
And right now we re focusing on the right thing.
SPEAKER_00
And in this sense, with sales, the TCU Sales Center is well supported.
SPEAKER_00
We have a lot of our alumni telling us that they wish they had this when they were students.
SPEAKER_00
They re getting behind it.
SPEAKER_00
It s exciting.
SPEAKER_03
So this is a huge day because I didn t know this was going to happen.
SPEAKER_03
I m making this announcement right now for all time.
SPEAKER_03
I m applying for an adjunct professorship at TCU s sales school so that I can go in and teach the ass kickers how to kick ass.
SPEAKER_03
That would be my primary function.
SPEAKER_03
And we will use this textbook
SPEAKER_03
the 21.5 Unbreakable Laws of Selling as a primer to go into any kind of sales course, of course, followed up by The Sales Bible, The Little Red Book of Selling, The Little Red Book of Sales Answers, and The Sales Manifesto.
SPEAKER_03
Arguably the best half a dozen books ever written on the science of selling.
SPEAKER_03
And I would not hesitate in one second to say every other author is pretty much bullshit except me.
SPEAKER_00
Our students will be stronger if they learn from you.
SPEAKER_00
I do know that.
SPEAKER_03
And it ll be fun.
SPEAKER_03
So whatever you got to do, you re in charge of the program.
SPEAKER_03
And you have the book in your hands.
SPEAKER_03
I ll send you signed copies of these books so that you can give them to anybody who needs to make a decision.
SPEAKER_03
And I don t care about the money.
SPEAKER_03
I care about documenting the courseware and documenting the program so that I have video of everything that I do.
SPEAKER_03
That s my main motive.
SPEAKER_03
You got it.
SPEAKER_03
Well, in the meantime, I want to know when you re in front of that kid and they ask you a question of like, well, what kind of sales job should I have?
SPEAKER_03
How do you answer that?
SPEAKER_00
Well, I tell them that every aspect of their life has some component of sales.
SPEAKER_00
If there s another person involved, they may not realize it from everything, how you use to curate your clothing in the morning, to how you communicate and how you position yourself.
SPEAKER_02
Backseat of a car, high school.
SPEAKER_00
What s that?
SPEAKER_02
Backseat of a car, high school.
SPEAKER_02
That s a salesman.
SPEAKER_00
That s maybe a different kind of sales.
SPEAKER_00
But I would tell you this for a career, what you want to focus on for the student end, and this is what I tell the student who raises their hand with that question, is really about understanding your client and then how to have empathy for them.
SPEAKER_00
and not really fleece them, because your reputation is longer than that moment.
SPEAKER_00
And in many ways, this has to do with something bigger than yourself, which is reputation capital, sure.
SPEAKER_00
But oftentimes, the way that people spend money is about putting the
SPEAKER_00
their blood money into work.
SPEAKER_00
It s something that took time and energy and revenue to generate.
SPEAKER_00
And then when they spend money, you need to make sure that it s generative for them, or maybe it saves some of the, or helps solve some of the inefficiencies that they have in their companies, if they have broken processes or other.
SPEAKER_00
Perfect.
SPEAKER_03
Now, Diehard, I want you to listen to this very carefully.
SPEAKER_03
You re going to go to this school, Texas Christian University, and they re going to teach you selling, but academically.
SPEAKER_03
If I m invited into the program, I m going to add the value of emotional connection so that there becomes an understanding of
SPEAKER_03
how they have to be combined in order to be able to really become a great salesperson.
SPEAKER_03
And if somebody asked me the question of what kind of a sales job should I have, I m going to say, buddy, do what you love.
SPEAKER_03
Because if you don t love it, you re never going to rise to any level other than mediocrity.
SPEAKER_03
Well, I m going to get an insurance sales because I think I can make a lot of money there.
SPEAKER_03
You re screwed.
SPEAKER_03
You will never make a lot of money.
SPEAKER_03
And we differ in our definition of the words a lot anyway.
SPEAKER_03
You know, what s a lot?
SPEAKER_03
Well, I wanna make 125,000.
SPEAKER_03
Really?
SPEAKER_03
Okay, so I need 125,000 a month to survive.
SPEAKER_03
So let s look at it from a perspective of what is really money?
SPEAKER_03
And don t you really want successful experience beyond money when you first leave?
SPEAKER_03
Because you re gaining, you re being paid literally to learn.
SPEAKER_03
Once you get out into the world of sales,
SPEAKER_03
and someone takes you on as an employee, they re going to train you.
SPEAKER_03
And maybe they don t train you the best way possible, but they re going to train you.
SPEAKER_03
And maybe they re going to train you how to make cold calls.
SPEAKER_03
Well, you know, you can Google me and cold calls and you ll find all the answers.
SPEAKER_03
So you can use those in addition to what the guy who s probably teaching you the wrong way at his company
SPEAKER_03
is doing anyway, and then you learn for yourself.
SPEAKER_03
The key to selling is learning your own philosophy, your own strategy, and using your own ethics to be able to provide that help to somebody else.
SPEAKER_03
When you can do that, you can win at any job.
SPEAKER_03
But I can promise you, you ll win at least 10 times more if you love what you do.
SPEAKER_00
I can add, too, that at the TCU Sales Center, we actually do live selling.
SPEAKER_00
After we put students through training and help them understand what sales is in the context of business and in life,
SPEAKER_00
we then have products for them to go generate real revenue on.
SPEAKER_00
And then it has to be management level and director or executive level outreach.
SPEAKER_03
So do you sell your bling?
SPEAKER_00
Well, no, we actually sell the opportunity for companies to come and see talent firsthand.
SPEAKER_00
And in many cases, that s allowing their recruiting offices to come to our campus or something that a sales manager needs to build out their team.
SPEAKER_03
have a showcase, have some, you should have students give presentations.
SPEAKER_03
They do it, do you know Ohio University?
SPEAKER_00
I do.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, they, I helped Dr. Hersey put that program together.
SPEAKER_00
Oh, great.
SPEAKER_03
And gave several talks there over several, over a several year period of time.
SPEAKER_03
to local business people who were invited in to hear a sales speaker and then get involved in the school.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we have a very similar approach.
SPEAKER_00
So I can tell that there s some good inclinations between us, which is really to go to the very people that need to hire top tier talent and make sure that we get to the point where we pass their threshold.
SPEAKER_00
And then in turn, they tell us exactly what s needed.
SPEAKER_00
And we every semester get better and better and better to meet the marketplace demands.
SPEAKER_03
Well, Dierhard, you re watching History in the Making here because I ve wanted to be involved in a sales school for a long, long time.
SPEAKER_03
And I have the time now to do that and also have the content to be able to make it happen properly.
SPEAKER_03
I have several college textbooks I m selling in my library, but they are very academic and they don t really, you know, when you
SPEAKER_03
I would only give you a specific example.
SPEAKER_03
You re going to give it a lesson on how to ask questions, correct?
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03
And how do you start that lesson?
SPEAKER_00
Well, first, you have to learn everything necessary and appropriate about your counterpart.
SPEAKER_03
Correct.
SPEAKER_00
And then those questions are supported by a method.
SPEAKER_00
So, for example, if you re using a spin method, it just gives you
SPEAKER_01
structure, but it doesn t mean you re so rigid that you re a robot activist really is about understanding them.
SPEAKER_01
So first understanding their circumstance, the situation, and then understanding their problem.
SPEAKER_01
And then what implications are the cost factors or really the money involved?
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes it s a career oriented aspect.
SPEAKER_01
What is ultimately their problem and implications?
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
Now, diehard, listen very carefully.
SPEAKER_00
That s an approach.
SPEAKER_00
And I found it s been selling was written by an academic.
SPEAKER_00
You re aware of that, correct?
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Neil Rackham has a very almost ephemeral way of an abstract way of talking.
SPEAKER_01
And we really break that down into something usable practice in practice.
SPEAKER_00
And in spin selling, you kind of have to memorize where you are in the cycle.
SPEAKER_00
And for me, I don t like memorization because what happens is it cause you to it cause a distraction from the customer to the process.
SPEAKER_00
I m all about one on one with the customer.
SPEAKER_00
So part of I don t use any kind of a process.
SPEAKER_00
And I m going to share with you what I would do.
SPEAKER_00
I m going to meet with a prospect for the first time.
SPEAKER_00
I m going to walk in this place or her place.
SPEAKER_00
I m going to sit down in their chair or wherever I am.
SPEAKER_00
It might even be a Zoom.
SPEAKER_00
And I m going to say, before we get started, can you tell me where you grew up?
SPEAKER_00
Where d you grow up, Brandon?
SPEAKER_00
Fort Worth, Texas.
SPEAKER_00
OK.
SPEAKER_00
And when I ask that question of somebody, it makes them think of the home that they grew up in and their siblings, if they had any, and their parents, if they re still alive.
SPEAKER_00
and all the shit that happened in their house while they were growing up.
SPEAKER_00
So immediately I made an emotional connection in their bar head to get to the next level.
SPEAKER_00
And I m gonna ask him to tell me about it.
SPEAKER_00
What was it like growing up in Fort Worth?
SPEAKER_00
Was it safe?
SPEAKER_00
Was it easy?
SPEAKER_00
Was it fun?
SPEAKER_00
Where d you go on vacation?
SPEAKER_00
Well, we would go clear over to Dallas.
SPEAKER_00
What s your favorite barbecue place?
SPEAKER_00
And everyone in Texas has a favorite barbecue place.
SPEAKER_00
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01
What s yours?
SPEAKER_01
Well, I grew up next to a place called Cousins Barbecue, but more lately it s other places like Himes and Goldies.
SPEAKER_00
And you know, Heart Aid is the known barbecue between Dallas and Fort Worth, but there s a place down the highway from them called Meet You.
SPEAKER_00
Have you ever heard of it?
SPEAKER_00
I have not.
SPEAKER_00
Go eat there.
SPEAKER_00
You got it.
SPEAKER_00
Meet you, M-E-A-T-U.
SPEAKER_00
They broke off from hard eight because they didn t like the quality of the barbecue, and they ve upped it.
SPEAKER_00
It s my place.
SPEAKER_00
In fact, when we go down there, we re going to have a networking event at Meet You s conference place, where the food s cheap, but everybody will get to know each other.
SPEAKER_00
Cool?
SPEAKER_01
I like it.
SPEAKER_00
Because networking is a very big part of selling, to get to know the other person.
SPEAKER_00
When I moved to Charlotte, I didn t know anybody.
SPEAKER_00
Well, I knew one person, but he didn t know anybody.
SPEAKER_00
And so I joined the chamber, I subscribed to the business journal, and I began to show up at meetings where I felt I could be effective one way or the other.
SPEAKER_00
I had a calendar, literally 60 hours a week of networking was my goal, 6-0.
SPEAKER_00
And after about six months, people started to know who I was.
SPEAKER_00
And it was amazing.
SPEAKER_00
And what I did was rather than try to sell stuff at the meetings, I would try to put people together.
SPEAKER_00
And that made me a value provider as opposed to a salesperson.
SPEAKER_00
And then I would say, can we meet for coffee?
SPEAKER_00
I never met for a beer, ever.
SPEAKER_01
I also don t drink.
SPEAKER_01
I don t find it helpful in business.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, not at all.
SPEAKER_00
It s actually stupid, but we agree on that.
SPEAKER_00
But coffee s easy.
SPEAKER_00
And now you can do it virtually or you can do it online.
SPEAKER_00
Or you can do it at a Starbucks or wherever the coffee place is.
SPEAKER_00
There s so many ways of getting together right now that there never were pre-pandemic.
SPEAKER_00
So it s like within the last five years, all of a sudden, the virtual world has opened up to salespeople in a way where it was never there before.
SPEAKER_00
And I m sure you teach it, but
SPEAKER_00
You know, there s an effective way and a non-effective way of doing it.
SPEAKER_00
And I m going to give you an example.
SPEAKER_00
You call someone up on the phone and you want to make a meeting with them for coffee.
SPEAKER_00
And they go, well, can we do a Zoom?
SPEAKER_00
And you go, sure.
SPEAKER_00
Eight o clock Thursday.
SPEAKER_00
Okay, fine.
SPEAKER_00
Now, what am I going to do to ensure the fact that that guy shows up?
SPEAKER_01
There needs to be touch points.
SPEAKER_01
It s helpful.
SPEAKER_01
I mean, if you can simply just put a calendar reminder for them with all the information to make it dummy proof, that s helpful too.
SPEAKER_00
I send a coffee mug and a box of their favorite K cup.
SPEAKER_00
Solid.
SPEAKER_00
And for 30 bucks, I know that guy s going to show up.
SPEAKER_00
I absolutely know it.
SPEAKER_00
Now I can make it a normal one or I can make it a mind fuck one.
SPEAKER_00
So I had a customer who was calling on architects and couldn t get meetings because architects are here and salespeople are here.
SPEAKER_00
Correct?
SPEAKER_01
Depends on who you re talking to, but I understand.
SPEAKER_00
Well, they re professional people.
SPEAKER_00
They don t want to be bothered with the sales guys.
SPEAKER_00
Sales guys are pieces of, you know, they, what do they know?
SPEAKER_00
They re selling shit.
SPEAKER_00
I already hire, I already have the, the wall board that I need, the flooring that I need, the lighting that I need, the pipes that I need.
SPEAKER_00
I have everything.
SPEAKER_00
I know everything.
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
Well, there s a book about architects that every single architect in the world has read.
SPEAKER_00
You know what it is offhand?
SPEAKER_01
I do not.
SPEAKER_01
Well, I m assuming it s a code.
SPEAKER_01
It s a code book.
SPEAKER_00
Nope.
SPEAKER_00
Watch.
SPEAKER_00
Hold on.
SPEAKER_01
We deal with the business commerce code here.
SPEAKER_00
It s one of the two best novels ever written in the world.
SPEAKER_00
It s called The Fountainhead.
SPEAKER_00
The Fountainhead is a book about an architect named Howard Rourke, who was patterned after Frank Lloyd Wright.
SPEAKER_00
This happens to be a signed first edition of The Fountainhead.
SPEAKER_00
Ayn Rand is the author, and there s her signature.
SPEAKER_01
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And the other famous novel is Atlas Shrugged.
SPEAKER_00
And Atlas Shrugged has an opening line of, who is John Galt?
SPEAKER_00
Well, The Fountainhead has an opening line, Howard Rourke laughed.
SPEAKER_00
And you can get it on a mug.
SPEAKER_00
So if I send that architect a Howard Rourke laughed mug and a box of K-cups, what are the odds that not only he s going to be there, but that he s going to tell 10 other people about this gift?
SPEAKER_00
And that s creativity, that s innovation, and that s emotional connection.
SPEAKER_00
And when you have that, the customer is going to listen to what it is that you have to say, rather than hear your spiel with 27 slides that are fucking boring.
SPEAKER_00
Pardon my French.
SPEAKER_01
And before sending that gift, you really have to know that client s a higher value prospect for you.
SPEAKER_00
Uh, maybe, or maybe you just take a chance because it s only 30 or 40 bucks and you want to learn a lesson yourself.
SPEAKER_01
And then if they don t align, there s that referral because the relationship there is, believe me, there s, you can t lose with a meeting like that.
SPEAKER_00
You just can t lose because the guy s blown away by the fact that you have as a salesperson, look what you did.
SPEAKER_00
So when I get to your classes, I m going to be able to present ideas that involve creativity and emotion, not just the science of selling.
SPEAKER_00
That s the nuance that kids need in order to go out in the field and feel confident.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
On the point of memorizing, you re right.
SPEAKER_01
We need our students through enough role play and training to let go of that and know that a structure is just an approach.
SPEAKER_01
But oftentimes meetings have their own animal.
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I ve had prospects who looked incredible on paper, and then I meet them.
SPEAKER_01
and they re belligerent in person slamming the table.
SPEAKER_01
And then I have to change my sensibilities to meet them and ultimately listen to the thing that matters, not so much the antics or their moment.
SPEAKER_01
And so there s no structure there.
SPEAKER_01
It s just it s being present.
SPEAKER_01
It s winging it at its highest level.
SPEAKER_01
but also recognizing I m here to help and offering value, make sure I m prepared and ready.
SPEAKER_00
That s a great strategy.
SPEAKER_00
And that s a great philosophy.
SPEAKER_00
I show up ready to help, but I also show up prepared.
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And I want to be prepared in terms of them so that they know that I ve done my homework.
SPEAKER_00
I ve done my research.
SPEAKER_00
I have some answers for them.
SPEAKER_00
But I m going to throw something at you that will be the fulcrum point of how we play.
SPEAKER_00
Every company has a sales pitch and a marketing team and a bunch of slides and that kind of bullshit.
SPEAKER_00
As a customer, do you think I want to see that?
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
I can Google you the night before you come and probably tell you more about you than you can tell me about me.
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I can tell you as a professor, I get pitched demos.
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to sit through demos.
SPEAKER_01
It s just, I need to know how are they solving my specific problem.
SPEAKER_01
I need to first know if they even understand my problem.
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so in 1908, a long time ago, Arsene Sweat Martin wrote, the world makes way for the man with an idea.
SPEAKER_00
So if you walk into a sales call with 27 slides and a pitch, or an idea about how to make them better, or how they can win more, which do you think that customer wants?
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the latter.
SPEAKER_00
Right.
SPEAKER_00
And that s the challenge that most people who are in sales and sales training don t even have a clue about.
SPEAKER_00
I want a fucking idea.
SPEAKER_00
I don t need another sales guy knocking on my door telling me that, well, well, your office looks beautiful.
SPEAKER_00
Don t tell me that.
SPEAKER_00
Tell me what s going on.
SPEAKER_00
I know it s beautiful.
SPEAKER_00
I did it.
SPEAKER_00
So if that person doesn t have what I m really hoping for,
SPEAKER_00
I m going to ask them to leave a little earlier than they were expecting.
SPEAKER_00
And when the guy comes in and says, tell me a little bit about your business, I m going to throw him out.
SPEAKER_00
He could have Googled me and found out everything.
SPEAKER_00
If he comes into my office and says, I bought three of your books and I brought them with me and I wonder if you could autograph them, that guy s going to spend an hour with me.
SPEAKER_00
So it s a matter of how personally prepared, not how intellectually prepared or how business prepared,
SPEAKER_00
or how sales prepared you are, you must have personal preparation.
SPEAKER_00
Must.
SPEAKER_00
Agreed.
SPEAKER_00
Okay, now let s do one more secret and then we ll talk about TCU and their sales program.
SPEAKER_00
Ready?
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
SPEAKER_00
I need to find out information about this customer.
SPEAKER_00
Where am I going to go?
SPEAKER_01
Well, you begin first with the resources available to you.
SPEAKER_01
Exhaust those resources.
SPEAKER_00
Like what?
SPEAKER_01
Well, it can be online searches.
SPEAKER_01
Then it can be a network, a network mapping.
SPEAKER_01
Oftentimes the folks that work with the people that you need to engage, they have the most information and also gives you a headwind.
SPEAKER_00
Talk about those people.
SPEAKER_01
Well, they re your friends.
SPEAKER_01
They re your relationships.
SPEAKER_01
These are people you trust and they trust you.
SPEAKER_01
And that warm referral is gold.
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
I m going to call the sales department of that company because the sales department knows everything about everyone and it s their job to spill the beans.
SPEAKER_00
That s all they do all day long.
SPEAKER_00
So that one little insight can get you a tremendous amount of information.
SPEAKER_00
But with the advent of social media, you now can combine that.
SPEAKER_00
You can go to their Facebook page, you can go to their LinkedIn,
SPEAKER_00
Maybe they have a Instagram or TikTok.
SPEAKER_00
There s something that you can find out about them personally every single time.
SPEAKER_00
And you got to know that.
SPEAKER_00
You got to know they took a fishing trip to Montana.
SPEAKER_00
You got to know their favorite team is Alabama, not TCU.
SPEAKER_00
And that s important.
SPEAKER_00
It s so important to talk about.
SPEAKER_00
Because my best friends in Dallas are Cowboys fans.
SPEAKER_00
I m an Eagles fan.
SPEAKER_00
We talk about stuff all the time.
SPEAKER_00
We talk about, and we bust each other s balls about getting to the playoffs, not getting to the playoffs.
SPEAKER_00
It s fun.
SPEAKER_00
It s totally fun.
SPEAKER_00
And if you watch the game on Sunday where the Eagles pulled it out and they re now 10 and one, and I think the Cowboys are eight and three, you ll lose at least a couple more times.
SPEAKER_00
before the playoffs and we will probably not lose unless we have to beat the Christian McCaffrey s out on the west coast next week and we ll be fine.
SPEAKER_00
He s tough and look to your point we were chopping it up before we started our call about our my cowboys and your eagles and yeah man it s it is fun it is it and it s engaging it almost made me like Brandon I d not quite but we re getting this and he s bald so that s another
SPEAKER_00
point in his favor.
SPEAKER_00
He likes barbecue.
SPEAKER_00
That s another point in his favor.
SPEAKER_00
And he s in Fort Worth rather than Dallas.
SPEAKER_00
That s another point in his favor.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
There s a barbecue place out there.
SPEAKER_00
I want to say it just reminded me of heartache, but I don t think it s a heartache branch, but it s really good.
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s really, really good.
SPEAKER_00
So check that out.
SPEAKER_00
All right.
SPEAKER_00
All right.
SPEAKER_00
What else would you like to talk about with respect to why your sales courses is doing so well?
SPEAKER_00
And we talked about it beforehand.
SPEAKER_00
He went from a class of three to a class of there s now 300 people that either are in the school or want to be in the school.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the TCU sales center is a program in and of itself.
SPEAKER_01
And the TCU broad institution has 12,000 students, but we are still considered a very small and competitive program.
SPEAKER_01
So you have to apply and we re looking for someone who s coachable and someone who doesn t quit, who can get punched in the mouth, so to speak, and get back up and learn.
SPEAKER_01
And there s a kind of mix of moxie and coachability.
SPEAKER_01
That means you have to have humility, integrity, to have authenticity, and that kind of ambition.
SPEAKER_01
Those are our four pillars, you put those together, and what you get is usually someone who has a good, good balance of persevering through tough challenges, and understands how to learn when things get tough, doesn t just fold doesn t get coddled to the point of
SPEAKER_01
of being fragile and broken but rather has a kind of moxie and internal fortitude that helps them drive throughout their career, drive forward.
SPEAKER_01
And then another thing too is just be able to take tough insight.
SPEAKER_01
When we coach our students, we tell them right in the moment, no, absolutely not, do not do that, or no, that s not gonna work, or that s unethical.
SPEAKER_01
We are a hard driving kind of coaching approach, and it s not mean necessarily, it s meant to save them, help them, and then that ultimately helps other people.
SPEAKER_01
So in that live role play, in those tune ups, we need people who are applying, who want something challenging and difficult, who are maybe tired of this kind of soft landing and everything they do.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, this isn t necessarily about having an unsafe
SPEAKER_00
for safe place or any of that.
SPEAKER_00
I actually don t think those concepts apply here because when you re dealing with- I m making money.
SPEAKER_02
It s about making money or I should say earning money.
SPEAKER_00
Well, sure.
SPEAKER_00
And look, ultimately everyone in our courses has respect.
SPEAKER_00
They need to have first self-respect and then also, and a lot of that has to do with how they respond to challenges.
SPEAKER_00
But another thing too, is they have respect for counterparts and people in the marketplace.
SPEAKER_00
And so we re not worrying necessarily about how
SPEAKER_00
the yes patterning, it s a terrible idea, or rejection handling, that s a terrible idea.
SPEAKER_00
We don t even like things like body mirroring.
SPEAKER_00
It just seems like a terrible thing.
SPEAKER_00
What we really want the students to understand is that they are business people.
SPEAKER_00
They happen to be students now.
SPEAKER_00
And so we have a vested interest in their success because we re connected to them.
SPEAKER_00
And that same principle should apply to everyone they meet thereafter in business, which is about carrying forward a kind of
SPEAKER_00
and instilled values and power, and that power transfers, it s generative.
SPEAKER_00
Capital and sales are noble, all right?
SPEAKER_00
Capital markets and sales are noble.
SPEAKER_00
And if anyone has a premise, otherwise, we can t work with them because they re too doctrined elsewhere.
SPEAKER_02
Perfect.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, my uniform, when I come to your school to give my first class, and we re going to have to change the name of the school to TJU, Texas Jewish University, when I m there, but I have it, my shirt says, enjoy capitalism.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, it s what we make it.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02
And because they re in Fort Worth rather than Dallas, what it means is these kids are going to be earthy.
SPEAKER_02
They re going to be down to earth people that really want to make it in the world that don t have some false sense of what s next.
SPEAKER_02
Because I d like to have a dollar for every kid that graduates college from a major university that spent $200,000 to get their education and can t get a job for 50 grand.
SPEAKER_00
Look, over 50% of college business graduates go into a sales job at some point in their career, yet fewer than 1% ever take a sales class.
SPEAKER_00
And the sales classes, I hope, are any good.
SPEAKER_00
So ideally, they would have some market applied or some real experience before they even enter the market.
SPEAKER_02
And when will our class go online?
SPEAKER_00
We believe that the in-person is more impacting, it s more imprinting.
SPEAKER_02
I concur, but we shouldn t preclude somebody who s willing to pay 500 bucks for a course and get a real good course still.
SPEAKER_02
So we ll create that and split the money.
SPEAKER_00
We definitely have something to talk about, for sure.
SPEAKER_00
Well, I can tell you the book Sales Millionaires is an extension, really kind of a spiritual extension of what is working at TCU, at the Texas Christian University Sales Center.
SPEAKER_00
And i appreciate that you see that too because really we re following your path which is just understanding that sales is noble and putting it into practice and making a connection and that s important right from the get and that connection is possible because the due diligence hard work and
SPEAKER_00
an overall approach that you have before you even show up to the meeting.
SPEAKER_00
And then in the meeting, active listening and doing that through questions that matter, that get to the thing that matters.
SPEAKER_00
And that s ultimately the problem that you re trying to solve or hope to solve if appropriate for your counterpart.
SPEAKER_00
And if there s alignment, then there s a reason to sell.
SPEAKER_02
Well, TCU, is TCU Horned Frogs or something?
SPEAKER_00
That s it, Horned Frogs.
SPEAKER_02
And you re purple, right?
SPEAKER_02
You re purple and white.
SPEAKER_02
Yes, that s right.
SPEAKER_02
That s right.
SPEAKER_02
So I think we should use that Horned Frog guy who I kind of like and have a new phrase for him called Sales Moxie.
SPEAKER_02
Because Moxie is what you re looking for.
SPEAKER_02
Sales is what you re teaching.
SPEAKER_02
And you can make that a shirt that your kids have to sell a dozen of before they leave the course.
SPEAKER_00
I can tell you this, we actually like students to be themselves.
SPEAKER_00
So if they re a shy person or a timid person, that can be a superpower.
SPEAKER_00
So we never necessarily want Moxie to be confused with like extroversion or outgoing behavior.
SPEAKER_00
If they are just themselves and bringing a kind of honest sense to who they are, a full honest sense, then that is going to be way more successful than any kind of pretend swagger.
SPEAKER_02
Okay, we can have three or four different categories then.
SPEAKER_02
We can use sales wallflower, sales introvert.
SPEAKER_00
We have no wallflowers here, I ll tell you that.
SPEAKER_02
What I m challenging you with, Brandon, I think this is really important.
SPEAKER_02
Humor has to play an important part in the selling transfer of message.
SPEAKER_02
Because if it doesn t play an important part, you re gonna lose.
SPEAKER_02
You re gonna be a stiff upper lip.
SPEAKER_02
And if you don t have the personality, luckily you can learn it.
SPEAKER_02
Because the people who have that extrovertish kind of flair to them,
SPEAKER_02
are typically the ones that make pretty good bank.
SPEAKER_02
And I want to make sure that there s a pathway to that.
SPEAKER_02
If someone s saying, boy, I wish I could be more of an extrovert, there has to be a pathway that says, OK, here s a comfortable way for you to do that.
SPEAKER_00
I want to challenge you a little bit here.
SPEAKER_00
I do know that we can take someone who doesn t have, say, an extroverted part of them and help them succeed in a way that s even more
SPEAKER_02
I d agree with you 100%.
SPEAKER_02
There are lots of people that are not extroverts that are very successful at selling.
SPEAKER_02
I m only challenging you with the millions of people that I ve met.
SPEAKER_02
The extroverts tend to trump the introverts, tend to.
SPEAKER_02
And the introvert has a much more difficult mental time to get into the process.
SPEAKER_02
The extroverts, he s already happy-go-lucky.
SPEAKER_02
The introvert almost has to convince themselves in their own head, hey, I can do this.
SPEAKER_00
However, we re seeing that introverts are typically smarter.
SPEAKER_00
They re studying more.
SPEAKER_02
No argument with that either, because extroverts think they already know everything.
SPEAKER_02
But this is the challenge.
SPEAKER_02
This is the challenge.
SPEAKER_02
There has to be a way where we can teach them both how they can begin to understand what their opportunities are and then let the Dale Carnegie program take over.
SPEAKER_02
When you read How to Win Friends and Influence People and How to Stop Worrying and Start Living,
SPEAKER_02
the underlying theme of the book.
SPEAKER_02
In both books, the thread that holds them both together is two words, be yourself.
SPEAKER_02
And so, if we can make that message transferable to those students, we re going to win.
SPEAKER_02
They don t have to transition, but they have to be the best version of themselves that they possibly can be.
SPEAKER_00
And that is, you re right, about giving them a tool set and then, in a way, building upon who they are.
SPEAKER_02
Yep, I m always smiling when I think of the Oscar Wilde quote of, be yourself, everyone else has already taken.
SPEAKER_02
And that defines the whole process.
SPEAKER_02
You can t be somebody, I want to be like Bob.
SPEAKER_02
Bob s a jackass.
SPEAKER_02
You know, Bob drinks at night.
SPEAKER_02
Bob smokes dope.
SPEAKER_02
You don t want to be like Bob.
SPEAKER_02
You want to be like yourself, the best version of yourself you possibly can be.
SPEAKER_02
That s where I m at.
SPEAKER_02
I m excited about a sales school at a university because it s an anomaly still.
SPEAKER_02
You know, Baylor has one.
SPEAKER_02
Ohio University.
SPEAKER_02
Texas schools have actually led the way.
SPEAKER_02
Texas likes to win.
SPEAKER_02
That s true.
SPEAKER_02
They re 11-1 right now, but they probably won t make the playoffs.
SPEAKER_00
Well, you re talking about the other Texas.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you ve heard of them, right?
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s where I went to undergrad.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have some dissonance about it, but I ll tell you what, I bleed purple now.
SPEAKER_02
Well, Texas has more loyalty to itself, its schools and its teams than any other state in the country combined.
SPEAKER_02
It s awesome.
SPEAKER_02
Three night lights.
SPEAKER_02
Come on.
SPEAKER_00
It s great.
SPEAKER_00
Our games are fun.
SPEAKER_00
People are spirited.
SPEAKER_00
They know how to compete.
SPEAKER_00
They celebrate competitive ethos.
SPEAKER_00
And that translates in life.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_02
I totally agree.
SPEAKER_02
So, Die Hard, we re going to try to get Tchaikovsky s book.
SPEAKER_02
He s going to hold it up.
SPEAKER_02
Is it on Amazon?
SPEAKER_00
It is.
SPEAKER_00
It s on Amazon and Barnes and Noble.
SPEAKER_02
So Sales Millionaires, I would go get it just and read about the people that have already done it.
SPEAKER_02
Brandon, where did you get your PhD?
SPEAKER_00
University of Alabama.
SPEAKER_02
And wow.
SPEAKER_02
And oh, yeah, you were telling me that Jalen Hurts was in one of your classes.
SPEAKER_00
He s a great student.
SPEAKER_00
Great person.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
Now, here s a here s a here s a shot where the professor goes back to the student and gets his autograph.
SPEAKER_00
Well, I ll tell you what, I m going to root for him every way I can until he plays the Cowboys, that s for sure.
SPEAKER_02
Cool.
SPEAKER_02
In the meantime, we re going to have another interview with Brandon.
SPEAKER_02
We re going to make it a more structured one, because I think that there is an opportunity to talk to students as diehards and talk to them.
SPEAKER_02
Maybe you listening to this right now have a kid who needs to have a lesson about how to get to the next level of life.
SPEAKER_02
And you can do it when Brandon and I get together again.
SPEAKER_02
Thank you very much, Brandon, for being here.
SPEAKER_02
We are approaching the season of To Be Jolly.
SPEAKER_02
So I m going to give you a ho, ho, ho and a go make a sale, even if your ass falls off, because if you can t make a sale now, you need another job.
SPEAKER_00
Jeffrey, thank you for the opportunity.
SPEAKER_00
Your books are awesome.
SPEAKER_00
You have a huge presence online and you re a leader for many reasons.
SPEAKER_00
And I m grateful for the opportunity to connect with you here.
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00
Pleasure is mine.
SPEAKER_00
Pleasure is totally mine.
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for listening to the show.
SPEAKER_01
Don t forget to like, share.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, share with both your friends.
SPEAKER_01
And subscribe to the podcast.
SPEAKER_02
And remember, we have a free 22 day sales challenge.
SPEAKER_02
Just go to gator.com slash sales challenge to start you on your way.