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Time for fan mail Friday.
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I m your host Jordan Harbinger.
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I m here with producer Jason and with Kim seltzer
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Hello.
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We ll be answering your questions and dropping some knowledge and feedback to help you kick the weekend off, right?
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If you re new to the Art of Charm podcast, this isn t the best place to start.
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Most of our content is more in-depth and longer format, so check out the best of at theartofcharm.com slash best, or the Fundamentals Toolbox at theartofcharm.com slash toolbox.
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That s where we ve got the fundamentals of body language, nonverbal communication, negotiation, networking, attraction, dating, all that stuff that we teach here at the Art of Charm, and we ll send all of that to your inbox
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If you text charmed, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444.
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All right, here we go.
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Hello AOC, I ve been listening to your podcast for a few months and I really like what I m hearing.
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I ve looked for advice on this topic but have been disappointed, so I want to hear your thoughts.
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Basically, I have a friend from college who is constantly talking about men.
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It varies from not being over her ex to the barista at the coffee shop initiated prolonged eye contact, I think he likes me.
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Primarily the latter.
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I try to be a supportive friend, but she is too shy to take my advice to ask any of them on a date or to try a real online dating site as opposed to dumb excuses like Tinder.
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I wish she could see how awesome of a person she is, even when she is not getting the male attention that she s looking for.
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I want to help, but she drives me nuts.
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I can steer conversations away from the topic, but living in different parts of the country means we mainly text, and I can tell she isn t interested in catching me up on other topics.
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Is there a polite way to snap her out of it?
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She is sensitive and easily offended, whereas I am brash and forthright.
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Does that mean I have to wait for her to grow up on her own?
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Thank you for your time and cheers, Erin.
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Yikes, Kim, I needed help with this one.
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Because for me, I don t have friends like that.
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If I had a guy friend that was telling me only about his dating life, I would get bored so fast and I would just keep changing the subject until they either took the hint or I would probably just stop answering their calls.
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But that s in large part how guys kind of operate.
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I might say something about it now that I m a little bit more self-aware, but if I had a female friend doing that, and I ve had female friends who love to just bounce every dating thing off me, and it s only fun
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to a certain degree because then otherwise your friendship becomes entirely one dimensional.
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But I don t really know how to fix it, especially in a way where one party is sensitive.
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Right.
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It s so funny because actually what you just said was kind of what I was thinking.
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And that is, well, my first answer is the friend needs to hire me.
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So that s the first thing.
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The second thing, and then that would get her offer back.
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But really,
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It s more about this person, Erin, and I would invite her to look at the definition of what a friend is.
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Like, what is she benefiting from being in a friendship with her?
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And also to take a look at the pattern of friendships she has in the past.
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Like, are all her friendships seemingly where she becomes the therapist or the coach or the helper, and it s like lopsided where she s not getting reciprocity from that friend?
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And she s kind of banging her head against the wall and she builds resentment for people who are always constantly wanting advice from her.
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So this is more about Erin than it is really about the friend.
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And then the third thing that, or fourth thing that would come to my mind is that, you know, helping her be more assertive with this friend.
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Like you said, Jordan, you just want to be friends with this person.
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Well, how can she be assertive with this person, set boundaries, kind of say how she feels and then stop like the contact if it continues over and over again?
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So what do we do?
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I mean, does she just, Aaron just come out and say, look, I appreciate you catching me up on your dating life, but it s starting to feel like that s all we talk about.
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Yeah, I teach people a lot how to use the I message and kind of own what they re feeling with people in order to set boundaries.
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So say, you know, I feel really frustrated when you call me all the time.
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Um, I would love it in the future if you would stop calling me when you re not like, you know,
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listening to my advice or giving her some sort of direction.
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So it s kind of like a three-prong process.
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You state how you feel, you tell the behavior that you want to stop, and then you tell them how to teach you in the future.
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But then it s up to Erin to really hold herself to it.
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To enforce it, right.
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Yeah, because this reminds me of something that happened in college.
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I had a buddy, I m still friends with him, he s a great person, and now he s married, thank God, because what he would do is every week there was some other girl, right, or every two weeks, and it was, oh, she s so good looking and she s so cute, and I m like, didn t you just meet her, and then become infatuated over a period of, I don t know, five days or something, and then he d go,
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Yeah, she s having a party tonight.
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We should all go there. 
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And I m like, did she invite you and us?
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Or do you just, you heard that she s having, like, I had to start clarifying these questions.
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And eventually, it would come out like, well, no, you know, I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that she was, so, like, we should all show up.
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And I m like, no, we shouldn t show up, and you should definitely not go either.
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And then he s like, oh, okay.
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And then he would come back the next day, or we would go out and he would bounce and go there and not follow our advice.
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And he d come back and then he d be like, oh, it was so awkward.
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He would just stand there, not be, he d be a little bit too forward.
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And I knew he was being creepy, right?
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She was probably like, crap, this guy showed up at my party.
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I didn t even invite him.
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I specifically didn t invite him.
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How did he even find out?
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It was that kind of thing.
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And so he would then be like, oh, I ve ruined it.
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She s so annoyed with me about this.
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Or he would end up doing something to really turn the girl off.
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And then it would be like, I need more advice.
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So I had to make a rule that he wasn t allowed to ask for advice unless he was going to follow it.
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And if he didn t follow the first bit of advice with that person, I wouldn t give him advice anymore about that person.
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And all of our roommates, the whole group of us, we made that pact, and so we stopped giving him advice, and it worked okay.
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He still made so many mistakes because he never followed anybody s advice, but...
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At least then we didn t have to hear about it.
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Because it was like the guy who goes, oh man, I m totally gonna buy this thing.
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And we re like, nah, don t buy it, it s gonna break.
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And then he goes and buys it and it breaks.
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And it s like, what should I do?
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This thing s broken.
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And we re like, take it back to the store.
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And instead of doing that, he would, you know, I m gonna sell it to somebody on eBay.
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And it s like, ugh, you re so, it just gets so aggravating that I realized, wait a minute, why is my sanity getting affected by this other person s choices?
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I keep walking into this trap, so I just said, I m not doing it anymore.
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I will happily give you friendly advice about stuff, but once, and if you don t follow it, I m done.
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My liability is completely annulled.
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That s such a good example.
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I mean, in both cases, what you just presented and then with Erin and her friend, it s that it s the constant victim role that these people like to be in.
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And unfortunately, there s things in the past that have put them in that role.
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They got reinforced for it.
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And it s the only way they know how to either get attention or have friendships.
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And they don t know any other way.
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teaching them, like, what you re going to do for them.
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And like you said, it takes your liability out of it, is the best thing you can do.
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So maybe, like, and you don t have to necessarily get rid of friends, but you can almost, like, renegotiate what that friendship is.
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So if Erin really likes this friend because she s fun to just talk about arts and crafts, let s say,
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then just leave it at that, and then don t talk about the guy thing, because obviously that s not serving either one of them.
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Right, so figure out what s driving you crazy, set the boundary, stick to the boundary, because if you don t stick to the boundary, then it s your fault again for being like, I m banging my head against the wall here.
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So, all right, let s move on.
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Hi Jordan.
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I m an avid listener to your podcast and I love it.
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Thanks for all the great info.
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I just listened to the episode with Kim about narcissistic behaviors and I happened to just break up with an extremely narcissistic guy with a really ugly past.
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He s very manipulative and lies, cheats and scams people on a regular basis.
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He s been in a lot of legal trouble as well.
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I m completely devastated and I m having a hard time staying away from him.
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Although he keeps trying to get back together.
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I m usually pretty strong and resilient, but I m really struggling with this one.
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Any insight as to why this is so hard, knowing that he s narcissistic and would be a very bad pick for marriage.
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Thanks so much.
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Kim, I m just going to immediately hot potato this one to you because this is you 20 years ago.
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Right.
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I am happy to to get right into this.
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Yeah.
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The first thing like this is the drug that keeps her going, you know, again, kind of like what we just said about what is it about this guy that she keeps going back to?
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What is the draw?
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There s something she s gaining from it.
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Whether it is something that she s trying to work out in the past, like I don t know too, is this the only guy that has been narcissistic or is there a pattern of narcissistic men that s familiar to her?
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Often when we grow up in a family system where there had been a narcissistic parent or perhaps
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that, like, you know, you re trying to almost, like, work through some of that stuff, and we find ourselves in situations where we re trying to work through it, it s maddening, because it s like hitting your head against a wall, but it s familiar.
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And so, for her, this guy has her hooked...
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just hooked on this drug.
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And the only way to get rid of like any kind of addiction, because it s truly almost like this addictive kind of feel to it, is to go cold turkey.
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And like she needs to like get rid of all his info.
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She has to solicit her support system to help her with this.
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There s something really strong within her and him that s keeping her in it.
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And then, you know, I was just wondering if she s getting any deeper work around this and and help.
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So that s
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It s very clear.
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So how do we but how do we quit cold turkey when we want to keep going back?
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Is this like block his phone number so you don t even see him calling.
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He can t text you.
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You ve blocked him on Facebook.
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I mean is it is it making it so no one can even friggin find you anymore basically.
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Yeah, I mean, it s like getting rid of temptation, right?
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Because it s she s saying it s too tempting.
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It s too hard.
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Every time, you know, he pops up on Facebook or pops up in a text or pops over at her house, like she has got to do things to really reduce that for herself.
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Because, you know, in a breakup and part of healing is that you really have to spend time away from that person because every time you see him, her, it kicks up the feelings and you start the healing process all over again.
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It s hard to shake.
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So she really has to like, I always tell people to get a crisis plan in place for that.
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She should write down a list of
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all like friendships and people that she can go out and seek help from, text, have people come over.
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She also should write a list of things that can distract her from going back to him.
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So activities she can get involved in.
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And, you know, I wonder what her life is outside this guy too.
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Like it sounds like it got pretty codependent and things like are just really enmeshed with this guy.
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What can she do to start rebuilding her life separate from this guy?
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It seems tough because if you re hooked on him, it s probably because of bad programming, right?
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Like your dad is a lot like this guy or whatever.
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Yeah.
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That s why I m saying like, she should definitely get like, you know, a good therapist call me or, you know, seek some sort of support around this.
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Cause there s a lot more to it.
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Yeah, it s not something that s just, make sure he can t message you on Facebook and problem solved.
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It s like those programs you get when you download bad stuff, right?
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And you re like, why does this pop-up keep showing up?
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Ugh, it s so annoying.
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That s the guy for you, right?
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There s something running in your background that your uncle or dad or mom put in there that s making you like guys like this.
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So you can block this guy and then just go out and find another one immediately because you ve got bad radar if you don t fix it.
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Exactly, and that s why I was asking.
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I wonder if she has a pattern of this, or was this the only narcissistic guy?
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My guess is this wasn t the only one.
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Yeah, or it s the first one in a pattern if she doesn t break it.
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Exactly.
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All right, next.
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Hi, AOC team.
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I ve been a fan of the AOC podcast since October and really happy to hear from more women coaches on dating.
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Recently, I moved to DC and absolutely love it.
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Everything is fitting to place here with work and a great group of friends, and I ve been really happy with my life.
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As one would do moving to a new city, I started dating and had a lot of fun, but wasn t looking for a serious relationship.
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Of course, as the typical story goes, I met someone who I did see myself getting into a relationship with.
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We started seeing each other three to four times a week, staying over.
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He met my friends.
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I met his friends.
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Things were awesome.
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I thought, finally, I found someone I want to be in a relationship with.
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I didn t think we needed to define the relationship because things were naturally progressing until a week ago.
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I barely heard anything from him and he got busy.
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I haven t been in a relationship for a long time and my last one was a doozy so I m anxious about putting myself out there.
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So when I felt like he was withdrawing, I felt like I needed to know if he felt the same way about me and he wanted the same things I wanted, aka being in a committed relationship eventually.
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We had that conversation, and then he told me he doesn t know what he wants.
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Then we agreed that he would take some time to think about it and get back to me.
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I told him I couldn t continue doing what we were doing if he didn t think he could be in a relationship with me in the future.
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I set boundaries, and I thought it was a good, productive conversation.
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I thought to myself, why wouldn t he want to?
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We ve been having such a good time.
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Fast forward to a couple of days later, he just texted me saying he can t continue on and doesn t see being in a relationship anytime soon.
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I was devastated.
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Even after a good productive conversation of him apologizing for withdrawing and giving me a good excuse, maybe I completely overreacted and scared him.
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Is that a thing?
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Is there something I m missing, or is it just a flat-out, he doesn t like me that much to commit, but still have his cake and eat it too kind of thing?
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After listening to Kim Seltzer about boundaries, I thought maybe you guys, as guys, would be able to shed some light on dating purgatory.
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I naturally have a million questions about when you should define the relationship and if women are supposed to set these boundaries from the get-go.
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I am so good at the first few dates, but after it, I m just crap at being in dating purgatory when I like someone.
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Are we supposed to constantly put ourselves out there and no matter how many times we get rejected, we should still do it?
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Sincerely, ranting self-reflective chick who probably needs to calm the F down.
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I love that she refers to herself as ranting self-reflective chick who probably needs to calm the F down because I m looking at this message, which we trimmed a lot of details from it.
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The details were unimportant.
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They were just a lot of excuses for his behavior.
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Like, well, you know, his phone broke, so maybe there s that.
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And then he often just texts me from his computer, which makes me think that she just doesn t have his phone number and only hits him up on like, you know, iMessage or something weird like that.
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I don t know.
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This is very shady.
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I m wondering...
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how experienced or inexperienced she is, because this sounds like the guy was in it for a booty call, and probably lied to her a bunch, or misled her, and then when she was like, I really like you, he had a guilty conscience, and was like, I gotta back off this one, and then just couldn t keep misleading her, or leading her on, and then told her, and she s really hurt.
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I don t know, Kim, what s your assessment of this?
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Yeah.
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Oh my, I would love to talk to her.
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I have so many questions, but like you, the first thing that came to me, I was having anxiety as I was listening to her talk.
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And so I can only imagine what maybe the guy is feeling too, if she is like this in the relationship.
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So it s like, I don t know.
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I think that,
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Um, first of all, we don t know how long these people were dating.
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She said she started seeing him three to four times a week, but over what period of time, she also recognizes that she s not very good at like keeping things going without getting too anxious.
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So this is where I talked to a lot of people about dating phases.
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You know, a lot of times people like refer to phases in relationships, but believe it or not, they re,
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There are phases in dating, like the first phase is that courting phase.
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It s more the light, fun, getting to know each other, keeping it, you know, more on the lighter side to see if it bleeds into the next phase, which I call just pure dating.
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Maybe it s somebody you re dating two or three months, you re getting to know each other in a deeper manner and seeing if it can go to the third phase, which is I call a committed relationship.
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I have a feeling she s good at the courting phase and then she s kind of falling short when it comes to more of the deeper relationship and the guy might end up running.
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This could be a pattern for her.
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It just seems like that as she was, you know, writing, but we don t know.
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So I would like, I d ask her about that and what her definition of a relationship is and what it is that she wants.
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And does she have a pattern of attracting these guys who won t commit?
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So, you know, and you re, I mean, Jordan, I don t know, from a guy s standpoint, like when a woman comes on too much, too soon, too fast and too strong, like in those early phases, it can scare a guy, especially if he s not even sure, you know, he s still figuring it out.
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Well, yeah, for me, I m hoping
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that she s not coming in and saying, what is this?
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Are we gonna see each other?
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Is this a relationship?
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Because it sounds like she didn t do that, but I m also not sure given this email.
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Maybe she s one of those people who s actually asking him, what happened?
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Why don t you want anything with me?
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What happened?
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I don t understand.
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Well, I thought we were together.
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We re seeing each other a bunch.
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Why don t you want to?
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We were having such a good time.
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And I can understand her confusion, but when I get that stream of thought in my email inbox, I m like, oh God, you re needy as hell and kinda, you know, there s some issues here that I don t want to date.
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And I don t think you should necessarily hide it.
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I think you should fix the problem.
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But there s a reason that this person is, she might be needy, I don t know.
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Maybe this email is just her internal dialogue, and she s being super forthright with us, which is great.
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But if this is how, if this bleeds through,
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Into her relationship which it almost always does your internal dialogue doesn t stay internal for long This is going to be part of the the problem, and so it sounds almost like a self-confidence issue to me well, right
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And again, like kind of keeping her eye on the ball and what it is she wants and pacing it out.
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I always tell people, it s not necessarily changing who you are and what you want, but can you pace it out in a way that s healthy, that s not creating codependency, that s not scaring people.
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And so, you know, helping her with that and like, yeah, like you said, we don t know a lot and talking to her about that would be really helpful in this situation.
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Yeah, for me, I just worry that this is how she manifests, this behavior manifests itself in her relationship, at which point the answer for me is, you really need to start dating some other guys and seeing what you actually want, because a lot of times, once you start seeing somebody three to four times a week, you start thinking, this person is amazing, and they re thinking maybe, wow, this girl, she likes to sleep, she likes to bang a lot, or whatever, right?
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And so she s getting attached because
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this is the only game in town for her, and he s going, man, this girl comes over like four times a week, and then on weekends I can hang out with my friends.
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Or go date girls that I actually like.
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I mean, there s a lot of stuff going on here.
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SPEAKER_03
We don t know all the deets, but really, honestly, what we need to do is have her look into that, and why is it the case?
2
SPEAKER_03
Is this, again, a pattern?
2
SPEAKER_03
Are you seeing guys four times a week for three weeks, and then they burn out because they re like, wow, I need to back off, this is insane.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then you get needy and scare them away and go, yep, made the right decision there, she s crazy.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then you rinse and repeat.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yep, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_02
Let s move on.
2
SPEAKER_02
First of all, I can credit the Art of Charm for improving my life in real and measurable ways.
2
SPEAKER_02
I haven t come across any advice for this type of situation, that s why I m hoping you can provide some guidance.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m a single lady in my mid-30s and I m looking for my life partner.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ve found relationships difficult in the past as I m a unique kind of lady.
2
SPEAKER_02
I know what I want, I m smart, confident, self-aware, willing to put in the effort to maintain a relationship, and I m a tough cookie.
2
SPEAKER_02
I am growing and challenge those around me to grow too.
2
SPEAKER_02
In short, I scare the hell out of men in my age group, especially those who don t know what they want.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ve always been attracted to older men and have normally dated between 5-12 years older than me.
2
SPEAKER_02
I haven t had a lot of success since it seems that a lot of 40 year old men don t know what they want or they don t want a family.
2
SPEAKER_02
Through pure luck, I ve found an evolved, charming, self-aware, sexy, intelligent man who seems to want the same kind of relationship that I want.
2
SPEAKER_02
He s not playing games, making it clear how he feels about me, is respectful of my me time, and we connect on deep and powerful life philosophies.
2
SPEAKER_02
Exactly the type of person I m looking for.
2
SPEAKER_02
The only thing is, he s 51.
2
SPEAKER_02
I feel like I m reaching a time in my life where I m ready for my life partner.
2
SPEAKER_02
I want to start a family and move on to the next level.
2
SPEAKER_02
But what are the chances of having a successful relationship with someone who is much older?
2
SPEAKER_02
I ve not encountered any real differences in our maturity, but if someone hasn t gotten married or had a family by that age, is it prudent to assume that they don t really want that?
2
SPEAKER_02
I m just worried I m falling in love with someone who will not intentionally waste my time and perhaps have to make a difficult decision later on.
2
SPEAKER_02
Any advice you can give would be helpful.
2
SPEAKER_02
Sincerely, Anonymous.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I don t blame you for being anonymous on this one.
2
SPEAKER_03
I mean, this isn t super severe, but you never know a lot of guys listen to the show and if you listen to it together, which a lot of people do, you don t want you don t want him to be listening one day and wake up with a surprise.
2
SPEAKER_03
But I ll tell you this one.
2
SPEAKER_03
Your concern is very valid here.
2
SPEAKER_03
Her concern, I should say, is very valid here.
2
SPEAKER_03
If he s 51 and he hasn t had a family yet, I just find it, and again, I m 36, so what do I know on this one, but I find it hard to believe that suddenly he s like, you know what, I want a family.
2
SPEAKER_03
That seems really late in the game.
2
SPEAKER_03
to be making that decision, but I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_03
I mean, maybe it happens.
2
SPEAKER_03
It is possible.
2
SPEAKER_03
He s still viable in terms of that.
2
SPEAKER_03
He ll be an older dad, but if you don t care about that, that s okay.
2
SPEAKER_03
I just worry that he probably is, he s already decided one way before what is changing his mind.
2
SPEAKER_03
Is it, oh my God, this is my calling in life and I ve missed out on kids?
2
SPEAKER_03
Or is it, yeah, I don t really want a family, but if you really want that, yeah, sure, I m into it because I like you, young 35-year-old female.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then when you get down to brass tacks, he s like, yeah, I really don t want to have a kid.
2
SPEAKER_03
I was hoping to talk you out of that or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_03
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_03
Kim, what do you think?
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, it s so funny because as I was listening to this question, there were a lot of twists and turns.
2
SPEAKER_04
Like, you know, she was saying how strong she is and she s a tough cookie, but she met an amazing man.
2
SPEAKER_04
And she always dates guys that are five to 12 years older than her.
2
SPEAKER_04
So those are like the things that kind of jumped out at me.
2
SPEAKER_04
And so I wasn t sure really what her question was.
2
SPEAKER_04
The fact that we re having a hard time even answering this is kind of the answer for me, because I wonder what kind of communication they re having at all.
2
SPEAKER_04
Like, we don t know.
2
SPEAKER_04
That s just it.
2
SPEAKER_04
Like, we don t know what his goals are.
2
SPEAKER_04
Have they had any communication around some of the stuff that she s wondering about?
2
SPEAKER_04
Because only the two of them are going to know that from here.
2
SPEAKER_04
But beyond that, I just have a question about
2
SPEAKER_04
you know, just her pattern of only being attracted to men who are five to 12 years older than her because, you know, what is the attraction for her there?
2
SPEAKER_04
And only in that she says, well, those are the only, you know, mature people like her.
2
SPEAKER_04
But I think there s more to it.
2
SPEAKER_04
And the bottom line is, is when you date people who are that much older than you, they are in different places in their life.
2
SPEAKER_04
So the things that you are looking for might not be what they re looking for.
2
SPEAKER_04
So to take a look at that, you know, when I used to do matchmaking, I came across this all the time and, you know, people will get kind of caught up in the age.
2
SPEAKER_04
It s not really about the age.
2
SPEAKER_04
It s more about like where people are in their lives, their timing and energy.
2
SPEAKER_04
And, you know, it can work when there s an age difference, but if you have completely different goals in life and what it is that you want, it s going to be really, really difficult.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it seems like this is a conversation that needs to be had ASAP.
2
SPEAKER_03
And you need to... If I were in her shoes...
2
SPEAKER_03
I would literally right away bring up verbatim, look, is having kids thing something you re into or are you just telling me that because you don t want me to be disappointed?
2
SPEAKER_03
Because I need to know now.
2
SPEAKER_03
This is a huge thing for me in life.
2
SPEAKER_03
Because what I worry about is, like I said before, they get into it and suddenly he s all, well, you know, I don t know if I really can do this, but it s five years from now and you re 40 and you can t have kids anymore.
2
SPEAKER_03
and it becomes a real problem.
2
SPEAKER_04
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_04
That s like communication is key.
2
SPEAKER_04
And to take the guesswork out, especially in this situation, she should have like a conversation with him.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
But a real one that s like, look, don t freaking lie about like, you know, you don t have to come up with an answer right now.
2
SPEAKER_03
Figure it out.
2
SPEAKER_03
But I need to know because if you don t hold his feet to the fire, he s not going to want to make a decision if the outcome is going to be decidedly negative for him.
2
SPEAKER_03
Namely, you re bouncing.
2
SPEAKER_03
Does that make sense?
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, no, totally.
2
SPEAKER_03
Because if I m a guy, which I am, but if I m a guy in this situation, it s hard for me to go, here s the equation, do I tell the truth right now and then have her just get mad and leave?
2
SPEAKER_03
Or do I think maybe later on we can handle this somehow and today everything will be fine?
2
SPEAKER_03
That s an easy option.
2
SPEAKER_03
And I m not a scumbaggy dude who would lie deliberately, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
But I am definitely a normal human being who goes,
2
SPEAKER_03
Do I want to deal with this right now?
2
SPEAKER_03
Ugh, maybe next week.
2
SPEAKER_03
Maybe in a year.
2
SPEAKER_03
Ah, she might change her mind.
2
SPEAKER_03
You know, that kind of thing is really easy to sell yourself when the other option is, and now it s over.
2
SPEAKER_03
Because he probably does like her, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
I mean, that much is certain.
2
SPEAKER_03
He doesn t want to ruin it, but he might be ruining your chances to have kids in the meantime by doing that, unintentionally.
2
SPEAKER_04
Unintentionally.
2
SPEAKER_04
And that s the key, because I think a lot of times, you know, people go into something not really thinking far ahead, just knowing, and especially, I know this to be true about guys, they just know that they like the girl.
2
SPEAKER_04
Like, hey, I m having fun.
2
SPEAKER_04
You know, they re not thinking beyond that, especially at his age.
2
SPEAKER_04
And he doesn t have the biological clock.
2
SPEAKER_04
So it s like, it s fine for him.
2
SPEAKER_04
He s not being mean, but it s just that he s enjoying what he s enjoying.
2
SPEAKER_04
And that s why, like for her, because there s that component of the kids,
2
SPEAKER_04
she probably does need to be more open, like you said, and directly.
2
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SPEAKER_04
Hi Jordan and everyone over at The Art of Charm.
3
SPEAKER_04
I m a long time listener of the podcast.
3
SPEAKER_04
Even though I m not your target audience being female, it s definitely my top two podcast of all time.
3
SPEAKER_04
My question is about my husband.
3
SPEAKER_04
He s perfect.
3
SPEAKER_04
He makes me crazy happy every single day.
3
SPEAKER_04
The only guy that has never pissed me off and just gets me.
3
SPEAKER_04
We ve been married seven years and have a toddler daughter.
3
SPEAKER_04
We re crazy happy, but I think it would be just awesome if he were a little bit more vocal in the bedroom.
3
SPEAKER_04
It s completely and deathly silent.
3
SPEAKER_04
I get distracted easy, and I m used to more vocal guys to keep me engaged.
3
SPEAKER_04
A little bit of enthusiasm and some dirty talk would really help me out.
3
SPEAKER_04
I ve told him about this, and if he does try, it s with a goofy voice or he s laughing.
3
SPEAKER_04
That doesn t work for me, and it s always been this way.
3
SPEAKER_04
If I could have some tips to pull it out of him as I know he s a crazy shy person and not very dominant, that would really help me out either way.
3
SPEAKER_04
I m with him for life, but wouldn t it be amazing if I could figure this out?
3
SPEAKER_04
Thanks for all you do and give a shout out to your female listeners to signed kitty.
3
SPEAKER_05
First of all, our target audience is not just men.
3
SPEAKER_05
I m not sure, I don t know what I m gonna have to do to prove this to people.
3
SPEAKER_05
I think women just love thinking that they re the exception to the rule when it comes to this.
3
SPEAKER_05
The audience is probably like 30%, there s like 30,000 women listening to The Art of Charm.
3
SPEAKER_05
And every single time one write, and maybe not every single time, many times when they write in, they always say, I know I m like the one girl listening to the show, or I know I m not your target audience here.
3
SPEAKER_05
And it s like, you can only get a few thousand of those emails before, you know, you had to say some.
3
SPEAKER_05
Anyway, though, appreciate you being a fan.
3
SPEAKER_05
I really, I m not sure how to answer this.
3
SPEAKER_05
So I, you know, that s one of the reasons why we re handling this one with Kim.
3
SPEAKER_05
So go ahead, Kim, take it away.
3
SPEAKER_01
Dirty talk.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, no, I this is an interesting one.
3
SPEAKER_01
OK, so a couple of things again that jump out at me because I always look at kind of, you know, the forest and the trees, but.
3
SPEAKER_01
Is it only really the voice that is bothering her?
3
SPEAKER_01
Is this really just like a question and an answer, an easy answer?
3
SPEAKER_01
Or is it his overall kind of sexuality?
3
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, she talks about his shyness and not being dominant.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, is this a bigger issue where she s not getting turned on because he doesn t have enough of that, you know, male alpha male kind of thing in the bedroom?
3
SPEAKER_01
And and she wants a little bit more about that.
3
SPEAKER_01
you know, about it.
3
SPEAKER_01
So, you know, I want to just kind of highlight that because I think it is just more than the voice.
3
SPEAKER_01
The second thing, it goes back to what we talked about before.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s communication.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like what can they do together to like create something?
3
SPEAKER_01
And maybe there s things that he wished she did that would make him more comfortable having a voice.
3
SPEAKER_01
So, um, you know, and then beyond that,
3
SPEAKER_01
there are resources.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, there s sex therapists that deal with this.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, have they tried doing like kinky things together to, to, you know, spice things up.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it does get hard.
3
SPEAKER_01
I will say being a parent, when a little toddler comes along to, to have that sexy time, you know, you do have to almost create it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And unfortunately it becomes a little more structured than when you didn t have kids.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I don t know, I think overall it s communication, looking at his confidence and how that s impacting the relationship and like using resources to help.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, for me, I never, I definitely didn t look at the forest of those, through those trees.
3
SPEAKER_05
I was just thinking if he s a shy guy, he feels so awkward about the dirty talk because of his programming, right?
3
SPEAKER_05
He s probably thinking like, oh, I can t treat my lovely wife
3
SPEAKER_05
like in this dirty kind of nasty way, because he just doesn t think about it like that.
3
SPEAKER_05
So I think a little imagination might come into play here.
3
SPEAKER_05
I mean, look, he s a guy.
3
SPEAKER_05
He probably has seen some gnarly stuff on the internet that he wouldn t mind channeling.
3
SPEAKER_05
It s just that he doesn t think of you like that right now, but you could probably get there.
3
SPEAKER_05
Wonder if you try watching stuff with him if you guys are into that suggestion if that might not unlock Unlock a couple of warp zones to use a gross video game analogy on your sex life I Think I think he might be like oh, okay That s how it s gonna be because the problem is I could totally understand if he s if he s like oh yeah, baby Like in some stupid Rodney Dangerfield voice or whatever I mean nobody wants Jerry Seinfeld showing up unannounced in their bedroom.
3
SPEAKER_05
You know
3
SPEAKER_01
I know, I just have the goofy voice.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know I m envisioning exactly like this.
3
SPEAKER_05
I mean, talk about a lady boner killer.
3
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_05
Some cartoon character showing up in your bedroom.
3
SPEAKER_01
But she said that he has always been this way.
3
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t just the kid.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m sure that didn t help.
3
SPEAKER_01
So this, I don t know, there s always been something there.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s why I do think like seeing somebody watching porn, doing whatever you can to help that and communicate about it is good.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_04
I think that s a good start anyway.
3
SPEAKER_04
Last but not least.
3
SPEAKER_04
Hi Jordan, just want to email you and say thanks for the advice you gave on Fan Mail Friday this week to Elaine about how to disclose her history with breast cancer and reconstruction.
3
SPEAKER_04
I had the same thing at age 27 and have never known what to do in dating.
3
SPEAKER_04
Your advice was spot on.
3
SPEAKER_04
I did the same thing recently and it worked like a charm, pun intended.
3
SPEAKER_04
The guy I m dating now was simply curious and ultimately doesn t care.
3
SPEAKER_04
Thanks for all you do.
3
SPEAKER_04
Cheers, Alyssa.
3
SPEAKER_05
That s great, Alyssa.
3
SPEAKER_05
For people who missed it, Elaine wrote in saying she s, I think she s in her 20s or early 30s.
3
SPEAKER_05
She had breast cancer and reconstruction, so her boobs are, as she put it, mangled.
3
SPEAKER_05
And she was worried.
3
SPEAKER_05
When do I tell the guy and what do I do?
3
SPEAKER_05
And I said, look, not my usual MO here, but...
3
SPEAKER_05
wait till you guys are hooking up, and then say, by the way, I got a little scarring down there.
3
SPEAKER_05
Because by that point, the guy doesn t care, and you re not really, it s not that material.
3
SPEAKER_05
If he s upset by it, he s a jerk, shallow, not somebody who is gonna wanna be with you anyway, so you don t really lose anything.
3
SPEAKER_05
But most guys won t care, they re just gonna go, oh, okay.
3
SPEAKER_05
I mean, look, I figure boobs are like pizza.
3
SPEAKER_05
Everyone loves pizza, even if every bite isn t perfect.
3
SPEAKER_05
Hope you all enjoyed that.
3
SPEAKER_05
Don t forget, you can email us at friday at theartofcharm.com to get your questions answered on the air.
3
SPEAKER_05
Weekly video this week, what kind of memories do you hold onto?
3
SPEAKER_05
It shows what your filter is in life and what makes the deepest impressions and a link to that in the blog post can be found at theartofcharm.com slash fmf63.
3
SPEAKER_05
Also, we have the Art of Charm Challenge at theartofcharm.com slash challenge or text charmed, that s C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444.
3
SPEAKER_05
It s a step-by-step guide to helping you become better at making personal and professional connections, becoming a better networker, increasing your personal social capital and your charisma.
3
SPEAKER_05
And it s for both guys and gals, so check that out at theartofcharm.com slash challenge or text charmed to 33444.
3
SPEAKER_05
Quick shout out to Brandon Monk.
3
SPEAKER_05
He s working on my new audio desk.
3
SPEAKER_05
It s all reclaimed walnut.
3
SPEAKER_05
I m really stoked about it.
3
SPEAKER_05
He listens to the show with his wife, actually.
3
SPEAKER_05
Probably not while working on my audio desk, but he did hear a recent one with Kim Seltzer with his wife, and they loved it.
3
SPEAKER_05
So thanks, Kim, for coming on today as well.
3
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for having me.
3
SPEAKER_05
Are you in a strange land listening to my familiar voice?
3
SPEAKER_05
If so, hit me up and I ll shout you out.
3
SPEAKER_05
More from AOC at theartofcharm.com.
3
SPEAKER_05
Now stay charming, get out there and connect, and leave everyone better than you found them.
3
SPEAKER_03
Thanks for listening to The Art of Charm.
3
SPEAKER_03
Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and more at theartofcharmpodcast.com.