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This is The Art of Charm.
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Learn everything you need to know to crush it in business, love, and life.
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The Art of Charm is where ordinary guys become extraordinary men.
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Welcome to The Art of Charm, I m Jordan Harbinger.
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The Art of Charm brings together the best thought leaders, teachers, and exceptional individuals to teach you how to become a top performer in life, love, and at work.
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Imagine having a mix of experienced mentors teaching you expertise, packing decades of research, testing, and tough lessons into a curriculum.
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Make sure to stay up to date with the Art of Charm and get some great stuff that we don t or can t share on the show by signing up for the newsletter at theartofcharm.com.
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We just gave away our networking e-book.
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We got our networking strategy guide going out now.
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And we ll email you our fundamentals toolkit that covers topics like body language, nonverbal communication, dating, attraction, persuasion, networking, public speaking, negotiation, and a whole lot more.
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And we ve got our live programs running every week in Los Angeles, guys from all over the world.
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If you re interested in that, get in touch by phone or email me, jordanattheartofcharm.com.
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We ll get you some info on that.
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Looking forward to meeting you here at the Art of Charm.
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Today we re talking with Hugh Culver.
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He started a private airline in Antarctica.
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He was a guide, he s an Ironman, marathon competitor, and university professor.
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If he sounds like Indiana Jones, well, you re in for a treat.
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He s the Indiana Jones of habits.
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We re gonna talk about habit formation, one of our favorite topics here, creating goals that create tension, and something called fast switching to curiosity, which you ll find super useful if you procrastinate or have any other bad habits for that measure.
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So welcome Hugh Culver.
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So tell us what you do in one sentence.
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So I teach experts the business of speaking.
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Oh, really?
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Okay.
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But you ve done a lot more.
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I mean, I m looking at, you created the only private airline in Antarctica, which by the way, doesn t seem totally necessary, but you know, who knows.
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You re a professional guide, I assume also in Antarctica?
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Uh, Antarctica actually, and also whitewater rafting and mountain climbing.
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In Antarctica?
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No, in the Yukon Northwest Territories in British Columbia.
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Okay, because I was going to say, I don t know, is there whitewater rafting in Antarctica?
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I know there s climbing.
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It s not very successful.
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Yeah, I would imagine you re mostly sledding 364 days out of the year.
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Excellent.
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And you ve done Ironmans and marathons and were not just taught at, but been a professor at universities.
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So it sounds like you re kind of real life Indiana Jones in some way here.
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Well, you know, I don t think my wife thinks that.
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No.
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But I ve been, I was really lucky early on because I had an older brother that introduced me to things like whitewater rafting and then later on mountain climbing and it just naturally led into
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doing those sort of activities, and then I started to understand, well, actually, there s a business behind all of these things.
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They don t really run on their own.
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And that s what I really became fascinated about was, okay, how do you create a sustainable business?
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And then later, how do I become a leader of those businesses?
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Excellent.
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So where do we even begin with this?
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Because you sound like an overachiever.
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I ll throw that out there.
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Were you always that way, even when you were a kid?
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Were you a great student?
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You know, I really wasn t.
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I came actually from a family with nine kids and I was really just one of the many.
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But I think that what started to happen was because I started to excel in the outdoors, I started to gain some real pride and confidence around that.
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and became really curious around, okay, what s the next thing that we can do?
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And so when we sold our rafting company and I was approached about this crazy idea in Antarctica, it just seemed like the natural next step because it was sort of 100 times bigger than anything I d ever done before.
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I mean, we were selling $55 one-day rafting trips.
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Our biggest programs were seven days down a river.
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And now we re going to be talking about buying airplanes and flying them
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you know, across the Drake Passage from southern Chile and charging people, the opening bid was $25,000 U.S., and then it went up from there.
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So it just naturally attracted me because it was the next big step.
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Interesting.
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So do a lot of people fly back and forth from Antarctica, or do you take boats?
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Well, to this day, I don t own the company anymore, but we re still the only company in the world that does it.
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We re the only one that does expeditions, mountain climbing.
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We re the only ones that do private flights to the pole.
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And so as far as volume, it s tiny because it s just really so expensive.
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Most people that visit Antarctica go by cruise ship.
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And we always chose to do it more like the sort of Shackleton and, you know, Amundsen-Scott route, which is right smack down the middle.
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So as far as going to the interior, we re the only ones.
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And my guess is in a total year, it would be less than 100 people that would actually go.
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Was this early in your life, by the way, or how old were you when you started really kicking butt like this?
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Yeah, I was actually in my early 30s, so I was not married.
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My lifestyle was crazy, basically.
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I was flying around the world.
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Eventually I was chasing after million-dollar deals because we got into expedition support.
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So now we were really into the big leagues of renting airplanes, buying airplanes.
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I was buying airplanes I hadn t even seen before, hiring pilots I d never met before, and so my life was really insane.
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We were making a lot of sales.
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We were doing really well.
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We were being written up all over the world because we were the only ones, but my life was a bit of a gong show.
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How so?
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Well, quick example is I slept on the floor of my office every day.
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And then what I would do is I would sort of, as the staff arrived, I would be rolling up my sleeping bag and looking at them resentfully, you know, because they d gone home for the night.
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And I had this whole mindset that was, you know, it was all about brute force.
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It was like I just had to put in more hours and then we would actually
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be more successful.
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And yeah, so that s one example, you know, then I would try an exercise.
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So I would sign up for a triathlon, but I wouldn t bother to train.
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So I would just go and show up, you know, because I thought, well, I can, I can push my way through this.
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So it works sort of, and we were very successful.
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But it s it definitely wasn t something that I could actually scale up or replicate.
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Excellent.
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Why did you sleep on the floor when all your employees had places to go?
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I mean, were you just working till the wee hours and then crashing, or did you literally not have an apartment?
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Sure.
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No, I had an apartment, but we had clients in every single time zone of the world.
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We had celebrities that needed to get a hold of me that wanted to go to Antarctica, and just the hours that I had to put in to pull off these deals.
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The entire season in Antarctica is about 60 days, and so the whole rest of the year,
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I had to go and find the clients.
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I had to go and beg money out of investors and I had to go and buy these airplanes.
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So it was just really about hours and time zones.
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Excellent.
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Interesting.
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So how did you start to ramp things up with building leadership skills, building discipline?
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How did this sort of ramp up into what you re doing now?
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So I came out of the Antarctic experience and I enrolled in graduate school and I thought, you know, seriously, I thought I should go and learn how to be a leader.
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So I m in graduate school doing my studies and they start asking me, would you start leading workshops?
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Because after all, if you can sell trips to the South Pole, you know, you must know a lot about marketing.
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So there I am in these two-day workshops at a university, not having a clue, like seriously, not a clue how to teach.
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In fact, my first two-day workshop,
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I ran out of material by the first break, like I had nothing left.
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I just talked really fast for an hour and a half.
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And so then I started being invited to speak on the main stage.
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I was being flown around to come to conferences.
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And I was showing up as a guy that s supposed to know leadership, because after all, I d led this business.
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And we had all these successes and all this sort of international attention.
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And it took a couple of years for me to start to realize I really didn t know anything about leadership.
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And so what I started to do was pretend, you know, by just quoting a lot of stuff out of books.
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And at that time, you know, it would be people like, you know, Stephen Covey and people like that.
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And I could get away with it, but what I started to realize was I was really very inauthentic.
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I really hadn t actually developed my own leadership skills.
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And a big part of what was missing was I had really bad habits, like I had.
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So I would get up on stage and I d tell people, you know, what you should do is, you know, before you show up, you should have a game plan for your day.
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And I didn t do that.
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You know, and then on your way home, you should turn work off.
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And I never did that.
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So I realized my habits are what really needed a lot of attention if I was actually gonna really go anywhere as being any kind of a leadership expert.
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So teaching leadership, the word itself, leadership, is kind of a buzzword these days and in that way has unfortunately lost a lot of meaning.
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I totally agree.
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I mean, I ve never seen a study
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on this, but my guess is, you know, the most non-finished books in the world are probably leadership books.
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And I think it s because people pick them up hoping it s a big secret and they realize it s kind of the same old stuff.
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And here s what I started to discover was when I was giving a speech on stage,
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And I started to talk about personal habits, personal accountability, being great with your spouse or your partner or health.
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People leaned in.
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But when I talked about, I don t know, delegation or
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praising your employees, it was kind of yawns.
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I felt like I was boring the audience because it s so obvious that that s the sort of stuff you should be doing.
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But when I started to talk about maybe the things that I was going through and the things that I was trying to get better at, then I realized I could really resonate with these people that are calling themselves leaders out there.
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So how do we start to actually put these things into action?
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What are the key points that you see that you ve been teaching that people either don t do or are too busy focusing on other things to do?
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So here s where it started for me.
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18 years ago, I go to a financial planner and I thought, okay, this guy s going to set me up for the future.
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And the first thing he said was, you ve got to write down everything you
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spend money on.
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And so, of course, I did that for two weeks and it was brutal, you know, a pack of gum and, you know, whatever, filling up the gas in my car and groceries.
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And I started to notice this one thing that started to jump out and it was coffee.
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And I d never really thought about that before.
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But being, you know, a guy that had worked incredible hours in the past on these crazy enterprises, of course, I d consumed a lot of coffee and so I just carried that habit with me.
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And when I did up the numbers on it and I realized in pre-tax dollars what I was spending on coffee, it was about the equivalent of one week of income a year was going to this coffee habit.
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And so I had this huge aha moment, which is that makes me feel really bad.
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Like that actually completely turns me off as a waste of energy to work for coffee.
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And so I stopped drinking coffee.
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And that was a very small beginning of what I would start to
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say, developed my real leadership.
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And I know it s completely bizarre, like how could coffee drinking have anything to do with leadership?
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But what I ve discovered is that to be effective as a leader, you ve got to have good discipline.
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You ve got to be willing.
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The late Jim Rowan has this great line.
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He says that we must all suffer one of two pains, the pain of discipline or the pain of regret.
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And when I stopped drinking coffee, I had this little pain of discipline, right?
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Okay, now I ve got to keep this habit.
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And what I started to notice was that then I wanted to start another habit and another habit.
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And then what starts to happen is I believe I m more effective when I show up with my employees
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And I was much more authentic when I got up on stage because I was actually working hard on myself before I tried to fix or lead everybody else.
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And it was really fascinating to me because it wasn t anything that I was seeing in textbooks.
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It was stuff that I felt was working, but I wasn t seeing it anywhere else.
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So discipline is one of those funny things that people talk about a lot, but I don t think it s really that clear.
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Because people try to do the discipline thing, or do things that require discipline, and then they kind of fail, or they whimper out.
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I think it s because discipline only counts when you need it.
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You re not disciplined if you get up at 7 a.m.
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every day because you feel like it, and then for a week you stop doing it.
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That s where the discipline comes in, right?
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How do you define discipline?
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Well, let s start with that.
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So I believe discipline is the ability to do things you need to get done even though you don t want to.
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And how is it different from willpower?
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Well, I think it s actually very similar.
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I think it s really the same thing.
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You know, so Dr. Kelly McGonigal talks about this.
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I mean, Roy Baumaster talks about this.
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Well, Baumaster is interesting.
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So he s a psychology professor from the University of Florida that really did some groundbreaking studies around this idea of what is willpower.
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what he discovered through his experiments all through the 90s and even recently is that there is this sort of muscle that we all have, call it discipline, call it willpower, and it s this ability to get things done that we need to get done even though we don t necessarily want to do them.
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And previous to that, it was considered sort of this hereditary trait, you know, oh, this person is an amazing athlete because they work so hard every single day and they never give up or this person is an amazing
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business leader or amazing husband or wife.
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And what Boundmaster discovered was actually just like a muscle, you know, if you start to develop good habits, then not only do you have more willpower, more ability to get things done, even though you don t want to, but it s actually becomes easier to develop the next habit, because that muscle is already starting to be there.
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And so, you know, when I stopped drinking coffee was kind of trivial on the surface, but I actually discovered
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then I could make another change and another change.
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And in fact, pride starts to get attached to it too because I start to feel like, wow, this is really great.
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I m actually more successful in my life, I suppose, because I am actually developing more ability to get things done.
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So you start to work on it and it starts to build, the reward system starts to kick in, right?
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Because you start to go, oh, when I do this, I feel good and I get perks.
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Right, exactly, right.
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And so I work with all these entrepreneurs, literally all over the world now, and they all want to become speakers.
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That s really the niche that I ve...
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I ve moved into, you know, I ve been a very successful speaker for all these years and I help other speakers.
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And it s wonderful to teach them, I don t know, how to have a great website or how to be funny on stage.
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The reality is they are going to have to learn how to do the hard work to get hired.
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They re going to have to learn how to do the hard work to write that book or to write that new speech or even to get up early enough to start prepping, you know, for that client that day.
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So it s wonderful that they re experts.
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It s wonderful that they have this expertise in whatever discipline it is.
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But what I work with them on is, well, how is it that you can actually show up as an expert?
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Like, what do you need to be practicing in your life?
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Because what you re venturing out to do, and this is true for I think any of the listeners, you know, on this show is, whatever you re venturing out to do in life, it s going to require effort, you know.
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And I believe that the stronger your discipline muscle or willpower muscle, the easier all that becomes.
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How long does it take to get easier?
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That s what people really want to know, because they re like, oh god, getting up really to Milo is going to be so hard.
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Well, totally, you know, and Jordan, every time I m in front of an audience and I talk about whatever, whether it is planning ahead or turning work off or going to bed, you know, at a certain time or getting enough sleep, you know, people will right away tell me why it won t work.
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You know, I was on a call earlier today and it s a group of family physicians that want me to come in and give a talk.
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And this fellow literally said, we re the yeah but group, like this is the yeah but audience.
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because as family physicians, they have all sorts of excuses, young kids, crazy hours, responsibility of why it won t work.
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And so, to answer your question, it actually doesn t take very long, but you have to have a few things, you know, and I hope we can get to like the five steps that I think are really important, but you got to do a few things to make it stick, you know.
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So, people that, I don t know,
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By a gym pass, that s not a complete commitment or people that say, I am going to run every morning or write in my gratitude journal every night, you know, it s not complete because they haven t developed the muscles to actually make that stick.
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Yeah, so do you feel like it gets easier quickly, or do you feel like there s things we can do to sort of ease the pain?
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Because it s hard to swallow that pill and start to do all this stuff if you don t see any potential reward, like getting up early usually is a good example, because usually people do it because they feel like they have to, for example.
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if you have very much or they read some book and they think, oh, you know, like you had Hal Elrod on, right?
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An amazing, you know, story, be his personal story, but also the advice that he gives.
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And the trick then is to take that advice and say, okay, well, how can I have my miracle morning?
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what is it that I need to do to make it sticky?
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And I think sometimes what people do is they bite off too much.
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So, okay, suddenly I m going to get up at 5 a.m.
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every morning.
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No, no, I m going to get up at 3 a.m.
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every morning.
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No, no, I m not.
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I m not even going to sleep.
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Like they just try to do too much and that s going to set them off.
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But the other thing that I think is often missing is they haven t really figured out the why.
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A month from now, why will I still want to do this?
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You know, I have a dog and I often tell audiences that when we got our dog, Riley, six years ago,
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It was really the best form of discipline building that I could probably get because he needs to go out twice a day for a big walk.
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Riley s a big dog.
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And if I don t do that, I feel bad and he feels bad.
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You know how it is, right?
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They sit by the door and they look at you with those big eyes.
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And so that s the why for me is he s motivating me twice a day.
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to make that happen.
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And I think for everything that we try to take on in our life, whether it s around our relationships, or our business, or it s around picking up the phone, or planning, you gotta figure out the why before you start doing it.
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Now what about the failure aspect?
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Because a lot of times people are gonna do this, whether they ve got a why or not, and run into failure.
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And they will, yep, they absolutely will fail.
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And actually there s research on this, and it s around really this idea of forgiveness.
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My rule is if the yoga mat comes to my office, I m going to yoga because I know the hours that the class is, I know the class I enjoy doing.
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I mean, I ve already prepaid, so there s no resistance as far as walking down the street and going to yoga or as far as physical resistance, but there s always that mental resistance.
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And so, I know that the 10 or 15 minutes leading up to me having to walk out the door to be on time,
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this little voice will pop up which says, hey, you know what?
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You got a lot to get done today and why don t you just go tomorrow?
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And so my rule is if the mat s there, you know, I m going to go.
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But I also fail.
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So last year twice, I did not go.
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And I think it was probably for good reasons.
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You know, somebody came to the office or some appointment got changed and I said, yes, I ll take that call.
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But the trick, Jordan, is then I got to go the next time, right?
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Then I have to pick it up the next time and go, I can t start now to create
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a bad habit.
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I ve got to forgive myself, realize that s life, and then just get back into the swing of it.
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And I know it sounds really simplistic, but this is how we start to develop these big, deep channels, is we ve just got to get back into it and say, you know, that stuff happens, that s life, now I m just going to pick it up where I left off, let s get going again.
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Now, back to Hugh Culver.
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Right, so sort of realizing that failure is temporary unless you allow it to be something other than that.
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It s almost, well, and it s predictable, right?
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I mean, I know, listen, I m gonna break a promise with my wife, you know, and I know that I m gonna not walk my dog some evenings and it s gonna happen.
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You know, I also know I m gonna disappoint a client or I m gonna make a stupid comment on stage or something.
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So the faster I move on and get back into my groove, the better for everybody.
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And you re doing this for the purpose of creating habits, but do you enhance the process at all?
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Because sure, you can do something for 21 or 60 or 90 or whatever, 120 days, whatever they say, but do you have any tricks or tips to speed it along?
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Because we sort of talked beforehand and you argued that habits are not created in 21 days or any amount of days necessarily for that matter.
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Sure, and I think a great example is, you know, we both have friends that have signed up, maybe yourself you ve done it, you know, you sign up for a charity walk or a charity run, which I think is a fantastic device for getting people to start a habit because now they re motivated, they ve got the why, you know, in one month I m going to go and do this 10 mile or 5 mile or whatever it is and so they go and they get the clothes and they start doing it.
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But even if they ve done it 21 days or 21 times,
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you know, jogging or whatever it was they were doing to prepare, it doesn t mean it s going to stick because they haven t got the why that s going to last.
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In other words, once the race is over or the charity walk, so what s the big deal?
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You know, I did it.
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The trick is not about how many times you repeat it.
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The trick is whether or not you actually start to develop these deep channels.
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in our brain, this stuff that Rick Hansen talked about on your show, the deep channels, these neural pathways that are gonna say, this is just a part of me, this is just what I do.
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And that may take 100 times or it may take 10 times, but it has to be developed because you ve got this long-term why, which could either be positive or negative, by the way, something I wanna avoid or something I wanna gain.
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And if that s their long-term, then you ve got a much better chance of actually making this just a normal part of the way you show up.
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You re actually preaching to practice recovery.
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Absolutely, yeah.
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So it s like meditation where every time your mind slips off of focus and you bring it back, it s like doing a rep.
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It s actually a good thing, right?
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Yeah, right, and also modification too.
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I think people are way too hard on themselves.
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I didn t write in my journal for a week.
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I stayed up late watching some rerun.
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Here s an example.
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So when I go on the road, I used to take gym gear with me because I thought, okay, this is a fantastic chance for me to get a workout in the gym.
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And I d haul along all my stuff.
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And then I started to notice that sometimes I just don t have an hour, which is really kind of what it takes to get a full workout in the gym and shower and get back to my room.
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I don t really have an hour.
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So then I stopped going to the gym at all and doing any workouts.
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And I didn t like that because my energy was down.
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I wasn t at my best when I went to see the client the next morning to step up on stage.
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So I came up with this idea of a 15-minute hotel room workout.
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And now I ve been doing that for four years and it works beautifully.
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I mean, I don t have to bring any gear with me.
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I feel great in the morning, but it s a modification.
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So I still want to get that energetic workout, but I recognize it s going to be different when I m on the road.
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I just don t have the time to put in that kind of
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effort or, you know, to be at the gym, so fine.
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So I ll go for 15 minutes.
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Now I don t have to haul all this sweaty stuff home with me.
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And I still get the same results that I m looking for, which is really just to show up at 110% for my clients.
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So I think sometimes we get out to just modify what we committed to, but don t throw it away because it doesn t work once in a while.
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So when we re keeping promises to ourselves and we re getting back on the horse, creating habit and things like that, it seems like it would behoove us, and you and I talked about this pre-show as well, to really notice when we re doing it right.
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Because it s easy to beat yourself up.
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Absolutely.
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So I always use the analogy of a river because that s kind of what I grew up on is rivers, right?
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And if you got a river that s flowing down its normal pathway, you know, as Robert Fritz would call it, the path of least resistance, it s always going to go that way.
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But when we start to develop a new habit, it s like kicking into the side of the river and now there s a new small channel that starts to fill up with water and soon that little rivulet becomes another stream.
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And the way to actually keep that actually flowing is to keep noticing that you were successful.
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developing that mind path or that neural pathway which says, oh, you know what, I m actually good at that.
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And pretty soon that becomes the path of least resistance.
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So, let s say, for example, I come back from my yoga class on the walk back to the office, I just savor that, like I think, you know, way to go, man, like, you know, you went, like you, you did it, you know, and feel good about that.
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The fact I get up early every morning, every morning from five to seven is my time for writing.
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And at seven o clock when I stand up to head outside with my dog is when I say to myself, way to go, man, you did that.
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So it s really important we notice those things because life is gonna try and conspire to pull us away.
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And what we wanna do is we wanna keep building that trench which says, no, no, no, you re doing fine, you re doing the right thing, keep doing it.
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Speaking of talking to ourselves or at least having good emotional and mental dialogue, we talked earlier about procrastination
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and people who are in maybe a judgmental phase or frame of mind, an assumption frame of mind.
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You mentioned something called switching to curiosity.
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Can you tell us what that is?
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It s a super useful strategy, I think, to get out of ruts, at least emotional ruts, or maybe just inaction.
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Right.
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Okay, great.
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So, when we blow it, which we all do, right?
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So, you know, we didn t pick up the phone and make that call.
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We felt like, you know, we didn t do a great job with the client or we feel like we re failing in whatever capacity.
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We re going to be into this judgment, this window which says, I can t do it.
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I m not very good at it.
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There I go again.
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And of course, the way the brain is wired is
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Once we come up with that judgment, we start looking to prove it s right.
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Oh, you know, that s exactly what happened last week.
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And oh, that s funny because someone commented that I m not very good at that.
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So that totally makes sense.
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And so now what we re doing is we re reinforcing this really negative belief, you know, that we are not capable.
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But fast switching to curiosity is where we actually just simply ask a better question.
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So we re going to ask a question anyways, like why am I always doing this?
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Why do I procrastinate?
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Why do I leave things to the last minute?
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Why not ask a better question?
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And this is hard because, you know, we re designed to go with a path of least resistance.
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And so it s going to be easier to keep asking those bad questions.
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But a better question would be, all right, so what s one thing I can do just before I go home?
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So what s one thing I can do for 15 minutes in my hotel that s going to make me feel pumped up and ready to go for my client?
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What can I do in just 15 minutes?
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What can I do that s going to make this relationship better?
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Like, do I need to apologize and can I just pick up the phone and make that apology happen?
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So, when we ask a better question, we get better results.
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When we don t do that, we get more of the same.
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So, fast switching to curiosity just says, okay, wait a minute, this is going down a bad path.
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Okay, great question is, what can I do right now that s going to make it better?
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What can I do with what I ve got or who do I need to get help from that s going to make it better?
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Perfect, that s a very Carol Dweck, Dr. Carol Dweck way to think about things, I think, right?
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The growth mindset.
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Excellent.
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Is there anything I haven t asked you that you want to make sure you deliver to the AOC listenership out there?
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Yeah, the notion I want to leave them with is this idea that, you know, life is not always easy, but if you take the path that requires maybe a little bit of
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effort, you re going to obviously get more of the returns, right?
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And where I ve received the biggest returns in my life, whether it s through my emotional relationships or with my kids or in my business,
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It s when I took the risk to try something different, but really make it sticky.
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So, for example, changing my patterns around my writing, which a lot of my business is written on, or changing my patterns around calling clients and following up with them, or changing my patterns around my exercise.
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You know, it s easy to go with what we ve already got now and see what the results are, but when you take a risk and you step out and you say, okay, I wonder if I can just try that and I m going to actually make this, I m going to put a reward on it, I m going to really make it sticky because I m going to have a really clear why for it.
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That s I think what life is, that s where the juice is in life.
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It s when you just try things, you know, like for example, I just started racing outrigger canoes.
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which is this crazy sport that s sort of all over North America now that came originally from Hawaii.
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And I m absolutely loving it.
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But when I first went to the club and said, hey, I d like to race canoes, there s all sorts of nervousness and I m feeling incompetent and it s a completely new sport I m not familiar with.
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And so I just have to know that that s okay, that s a part of the journey.
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But what comes out of it is I ll know a lot more about what s possible.
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Great.
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Thank you so much, man.
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Much appreciated.
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And where can people find more from you?
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Yeah, my pleasure.
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Well, actually, we re going to put a page together for you.
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So people can check it out at Hugh Culver.
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So that s H-U-G-H-C-U-L-V-E-R dot com forward slash charm.
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And we ll have a copy of my book there.
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So Hero Habits.
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So people can enjoy that.
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And it walks through exactly how to create these kind of hero habits that really make a transformative difference in their life.
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Oh, great.
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Thank you so much, man.
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Much appreciated.
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My pleasure.
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Thanks, Jordan.
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Interesting show, I really do like the fast switching to curiosity.
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I love that because otherwise you re looking to reinforce the negative process or the negative thought or the negative idea that you have instead of looking at it from a purely curious perspective which allows you to fill in with discipline or willpower or another kind of more growth oriented mindset to follow on Carol Dweck.
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So I appreciate that from him for sure as well.
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That s really practical and really useful.
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Yeah, and it s interesting that just stopping his coffee habit, just stopping or starting any habit created that cascade effect.
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17 years later, he s convinced his wealth, health, marriage are because he quit drinking coffee.
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I don t know, that might be on stretch, but I like where he s going with it for sure, and I definitely can dig the logic behind that as well.
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Show feedback and guest suggestions.
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This show s a fanarchy, it s run by you.
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We need you to help us out.
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Find those guests who are a good fit for the show.
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Let us know, guests at theartofcharm.com.
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If you want, thank Hugh on Twitter, thank me on Twitter, follow me on Twitter, yell at me on Twitter, whatever.
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I m at theartofcharm on Twitter.
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Hugh will be there, linked in the show notes as well.
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I share a lot of stuff there for those of you who are into that.
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Bootcamp details, bootcamp.theartofcharm.com.
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Remember, we re sold out a few months in advance.
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If you re thinking about it a little bit, get in touch ASAP, get some info from us so you can plan ahead.
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Subscribe on iTunes, write us a nice review.
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We will love you forever.
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Special thanks to the Jasons for their help in production of the Art of Charm podcast.
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Go ahead and tell your friends because the greatest compliment you can give us is a referral to someone else either in person or shared on the web.
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Now have a great week and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to The Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and everything for the extraordinary man at theartofcharmpodcast.com.