0
SPEAKER_02
In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill plays a snippet from his favorite South Park episode.
0
SPEAKER_02
We talk about the concept of screaming infidelities.
0
SPEAKER_02
Pay attention, you Dashboard fans.
0
SPEAKER_02
And we interview John Leffler, sales director for Cards Direct, about how to stand out the old way and what some might say is the best way.
0
SPEAKER_01
Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast.
0
SPEAKER_01
My name is Bill Kasky.
0
SPEAKER_01
My name is Brian Neal.
0
SPEAKER_01
And we are part of the longest running sales training podcast in American history.
0
SPEAKER_01
We ve been at it for 13 years, Brian.
0
SPEAKER_01
13, I say.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s amazing.
0
SPEAKER_01
Started in September.
0
SPEAKER_01
We were going to do a 13th anniversary, and we didn t.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, we did start in September, didn t we?
0
SPEAKER_01
Started in September 13.
0
SPEAKER_01
So we ve had 600 and some episodes.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I think you heard last week, Brian did a little research about where we were ranking.
0
SPEAKER_01
And you are listening to one of the top few podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_01
So we thank you, because this would not be possible without you, of course.
0
SPEAKER_01
So you got anything before I tell my little story?
0
SPEAKER_02
Well, no, you said you d know.
0
SPEAKER_02
I m ready.
0
SPEAKER_02
You ve got your computer all set up.
0
SPEAKER_02
You re going to play a little something for me?
0
SPEAKER_01
I can t wait.
0
SPEAKER_01
I remember we did a, when we had a radio show here in Indianapolis years ago, eons ago, we did a,
0
SPEAKER_01
We did a show on what really bothers you about humans, the way they communicate, the way they talk.
0
SPEAKER_01
Just, you know, just, what do you call them?
0
SPEAKER_01
Pet peeves?
0
SPEAKER_01
Do you have any that people do that
0
SPEAKER_01
Maybe there s a trend of this, or where people are speaking in a slightly different way, or little ticks in the language.
0
SPEAKER_01
You share one with me, and then I ll share mine with you.
0
SPEAKER_02
I think it s crazy when people in sentences write.
0
SPEAKER_02
Right?
0
SPEAKER_02
I know, right?
0
SPEAKER_02
I hate that.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh my gosh.
0
SPEAKER_02
And it was fun for a while, you know?
0
SPEAKER_00
It was cute.
0
SPEAKER_00
It was kind of cute for a while.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
It was cute in the 14s, but now that it s 18, I m like, no, thank you.
0
SPEAKER_02
So that s one of mine, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
I know, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Right?
0
SPEAKER_01
That s the one I don t like, is I know right.
0
SPEAKER_01
I know right.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s like, what am I supposed to do with that?
0
SPEAKER_01
There was one that I have here that there was a comedy show on TV that made this popular.
0
SPEAKER_01
Now, this was happening before the comedy show.
0
SPEAKER_01
You ll recognize some of the voices.
0
SPEAKER_01
But this was happening, and it s still happening.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I just laugh every time I see this skit.
0
SPEAKER_01
So here s the skit, and see if you know who it is.
0
SPEAKER_00
What I m talking about might save your life someday, m kay?
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay, Mr. Mackey, m kay?
0
SPEAKER_02
M kay.
0
SPEAKER_01
M kay?
0
SPEAKER_02
M kay.
0
SPEAKER_00
M kay.
0
SPEAKER_02
M kay.
0
SPEAKER_02
I don t know what that is.
0
SPEAKER_02
South Park?
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s on South Park.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I m not a watcher.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, you re not.
0
SPEAKER_01
It was a teacher.
0
SPEAKER_01
Mr. Gerritsen is the teacher.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s great.
0
SPEAKER_01
And he used to end all of his sentences with, m kay?
0
SPEAKER_02
m kay?
0
SPEAKER_01
And I think I hear people do that, and I m guilty of that, too.
0
SPEAKER_01
I will pose the question, OK, at the end of a sentence, when really it s not something that demands a response.
0
SPEAKER_01
So why even say it?
0
SPEAKER_01
There s so many of those things.
0
SPEAKER_01
OK?
0
SPEAKER_01
OK.
0
SPEAKER_02
OK.
0
SPEAKER_02
OK.
0
SPEAKER_01
Recently, we had a chance to sit down and speak with John Leffler, who is the sales manager at Cards Direct, one of our new sponsors here.
0
SPEAKER_01
And he has a very unique background that I know, Brian, you are extremely impressed with.
0
SPEAKER_01
He does.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you got a grin on your face ear to ear when you said, well, my gosh, who is this guy?
0
SPEAKER_02
I know him.
0
SPEAKER_02
We are music buffs here at the Advanced Selling Podcast.
0
SPEAKER_02
Our listeners know that.
0
SPEAKER_02
And we ve been talking about, as Bill and I age, some of our music knowledge misses a generation.
0
SPEAKER_02
And as I m looking at this guy s LinkedIn profile, I look down the scroll a little bit by where he went to high school, and it says he was a musician.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I look underneath it, it says, lead guitarist for Dashboard Confessional.
0
SPEAKER_02
And Dashboard Confessional, if you are between the ages of 30 or 28,
0
SPEAKER_02
And 38, Dashboard Confessional was probably right in your wheelhouse when you were in high school.
0
SPEAKER_02
So our younger listeners will know that the guy that we interviewed is actually the guitar player for them.
0
SPEAKER_02
And then he knows the guitar player he s really good friends with, a guy named Rhett Miller, who s the lead singer of the old 97s, one of my favorite bands.
0
SPEAKER_02
Beyond that, I didn t hear anything you said.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s right.
0
SPEAKER_01
So anyway, here s our interview with John Leffler.
0
SPEAKER_01
And we re going to be talking not just about Cars Direct, but about some ideas on how you can use greeting card marketing in your world.
0
SPEAKER_01
As we ve said in the past couple episodes, we have a brand new partner on the podcast, Cards Direct, and we have the pleasure today of speaking with Mr. John Leffler, who is the outbound sales manager at Cards Direct.
0
SPEAKER_01
They re out of Dallas, Texas.
0
SPEAKER_01
CardsDirect.com.
0
SPEAKER_01
John, welcome to the show.
0
SPEAKER_00
Hello, Bill and Brian.
0
SPEAKER_00
How are you doing today?
0
SPEAKER_00
Thanks for having us.
0
SPEAKER_01
We re doing great.
0
SPEAKER_01
So Brian, I know, is anxious to ask you a question, because we did a little pre-show conversation, and something came up there.
0
SPEAKER_01
So why don t you take it and rest for a moment?
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, so anytime we have a guest on, obviously, we re looking at their background and that sort of thing.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I m looking at John s background from a business standpoint.
0
SPEAKER_02
I m on LinkedIn profile.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I scroll.
0
SPEAKER_02
I usually don t scroll down to the end, because you get into high school stuff.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I see that before becoming an excellent sales manager at Google,
0
SPEAKER_02
one of our sponsors.
0
SPEAKER_02
I m telling you, you were the guitar player, lead guitar player for a band called Dashboard Confessional, which is one of my girlfriend s favorite bands of all time.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I m like now starstruck.
0
SPEAKER_02
And you know, I don t know if you know this, John, I referee in the NFL, so I don t get starstruck too easy, but I m like, this is really cool.
0
SPEAKER_02
I do.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
So we had a famous guy, a famous musician on here.
0
SPEAKER_02
So I got a question for you just about that.
0
SPEAKER_02
Uh, and I m putting you on the spot here a bit.
0
SPEAKER_02
Um, being a musician and being in a band like that is, uh, obviously it s an art.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s also a sales job, but whether you re selling merch or you re selling out, uh,
0
SPEAKER_02
you know, albums or CDs or shows.
0
SPEAKER_02
What did you learn from being on the road as part of what I would consider a very successful touring band to what you re doing now from a sales standpoint?
0
SPEAKER_02
What did you learn from that that you take into what you do now?
0
SPEAKER_00
Well, if there s a common thread, it might be, you know,
0
SPEAKER_00
learning that you re a part representing a whole and Which which would tie into to both jobs, but also just trying not trying but just I think being in the band got me used to
0
SPEAKER_00
being on, so to speak, all day.
0
SPEAKER_00
You re just, I come in here whistling, I leave whistling, and that s probably just from being in that band environment where you re literally, you re just always on the job in some ways.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so there s
0
SPEAKER_00
Some some parallels that way and just to seeing like oh, you know band branding and and how that kind of ties into what we do now and that sort of thing, but You know, they re very different
0
SPEAKER_00
Different jobs, but you know, obviously but it was quite a 180 switch and the biggest difference might just be the being in one place, you know, I When I first started here, it was like, I don t know if I could sit in the same chair for eight hours So I would pretend I was on a flight to Hawaii Same length
0
SPEAKER_00
But hopefully our band assisted you in any of your romantic endeavors.
0
SPEAKER_01
They go it the other way, actually, but it s great stuff.
0
SPEAKER_02
So good.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, John, we re glad to have you on today.
0
SPEAKER_01
Tell us a little bit about Cards Direct.
0
SPEAKER_01
Give us a couple minutes on this, and then we ll get into, we want to share with our audience some ideas on how they can use greeting cards, physical cards, customized cards, whether they come from Cards Direct or whomever, as tools, instruments of connection with human beings and prospects and people like that.
0
SPEAKER_01
So first off, give us a couple minutes on Cards Direct.
0
SPEAKER_00
Well cards are essentially you know just just advertising basically you know there could be personal advertising or corporate advertising depending upon the size of the business it doesn t matter it s just one way to get your one to stay in touch with or to reach out to your customers in a way that stands out from the herd as far as the emails and the e-cards and that sort of thing this is just something that s maybe a little more personal touch something that
0
SPEAKER_00
if someone likes the design of it, likes what you send them, they might put up in their office somewhere.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then it s something that hopefully lasts a little bit longer than the length of time it takes to read an email.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so that s kind of the basis of it, where you can order all kinds of cards, that sort of thing, just all different price levels, and just, you can order
0
SPEAKER_00
$25,000 you can order $25,000 if you wanted to.
0
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of personal customers and then just big law firms and big hospitals and that sort of thing that work with us.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s just an outreach, a way to kind of send a personal outreach.
0
SPEAKER_00
A lot of non-profits thank their donors with our cards, that sort of thing, and it s just kind of a nice
0
SPEAKER_00
more personal touch.
0
SPEAKER_00
I think our owners started us maybe, gosh, I would say almost 20 years ago.
0
SPEAKER_00
And just kind of the dawn of the the cyber age.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
So when you re talking to this is an interesting sales lesson, I think for our listeners.
0
SPEAKER_02
You say so what do you
1
SPEAKER_01
So in these days of technology, you re down in Dallas.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s loads of technology there.
1
SPEAKER_01
You re right down the road a bit from Austin.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s a huge technology hub there.
1
SPEAKER_01
Everything is digital.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s an app for everything.
1
SPEAKER_01
And you sell cards on paper.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like the opposite of what everyone wants to do.
1
SPEAKER_01
So how do you talk about that and make something that seems to be archaic, that I think is a lost art, sound new and cool and fun and fresh?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s just basically a lot of the internet is turning into just what you can hold in your hand.
1
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, if you re sending an e-card or any kind of greeting to somebody, you know, I m 43 years old and I have trouble reading the text on my phone.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_00
So this is just it just not everything is geared towards immediacy and kind of the fast pace that all the handheld devices are kind of geared towards.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that s definitely a great thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s, you want something, you re looking for something more permanent.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s not completely permanent, obviously, but it s more permanent than sending an email or a Skype or a Facebook post or that sort of thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s just something, there s something that, well, it s a strange that we live in a world now where holding something in your hand that s printed, it stands out.
1
SPEAKER_00
I strongly believe there s still a very, there s still a use for such things.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s important.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I don t see it going away anytime soon.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, there s something tactile tactile tactile about about holding something in your hand We ve seen some of these cards.
1
SPEAKER_02
In fact, you were nice enough to print a few for us Samples and they are really well designed.
1
SPEAKER_02
So this is these aren t just everyday greeting cards.
1
SPEAKER_02
You would get at the at the local what s the
1
SPEAKER_02
What s the store?
1
SPEAKER_02
Hallmark.
1
SPEAKER_02
Hallmark, or any of those specialty stores.
1
SPEAKER_02
These are really cool.
1
SPEAKER_02
These are really well designed, and they re really heavy, heavy stock, heavy coated.
1
SPEAKER_02
So what are some of the unique applications?
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, the normal applications are you send a card thanking somebody if they buy something.
1
SPEAKER_02
But what are some unique things that you ve seen people use custom cards for?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, when people think of greeting cards, initially you re thinking of like you re writing a holiday card to your grandmother or something like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is, it is that, but it s also a much, much different thing where you re sending out, you re speaking on behalf of a company.
1
SPEAKER_00
For instance, we do a lot of work with the Salvation Army and they want to have their branded outreach to donors and people that they work with.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so we have a whole design team here that will just make,
1
SPEAKER_00
Cards for them, you know using their colors their logo what the imagery they want to do or anything they want to employ And so they ll have a very love a custom product, you know, which will completely stand out So it s something that looks like it was designed by them for them and what we can take that on for you now That s for a large most customers.
1
SPEAKER_00
Don t do that with us, but a lot of them do most of you know There s so many designs online.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re gonna find one that works whether it s just
1
SPEAKER_00
putting your logo on that or your company name or your accounting firm name, that sort of thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that it s, you know, it s important.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s, it s, there s a, it s a great way to kind of stay in touch and thank you for, and it doesn t have to be as heavy handed as, you know, we thank you for being our customer.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s just a thank you.
1
SPEAKER_00
And with anything, you know, the holiday season is a way, is a time to do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is it s a common time to say thank you to people and so it s just we re just all tied into that And there s a lot of there is a great return on a lot of this stuff So it s and it s you know buying essentially what s cardboard designed cardboard is a small investment But so it only takes
1
SPEAKER_00
It takes a smaller group of people to return on that investment, people to give back to you.
1
SPEAKER_00
The outreach is just whatever you want it to be.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you have someone s address or a name, we can send that, we can send it for you if you like.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think it s just like when you get your mail, something that looks like it s from a credit card company that seems very official, like a form, you re probably not gonna open it.
1
SPEAKER_00
something like a card, we even do hand addressing, you re more likely to open it.
1
SPEAKER_00
For starters, and that just gets you in the door right there.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then, you know, it s something that s maybe nice and seasonal to have in your office, whether it s holiday or birthday, we have all kinds of occasions like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s something that, you know, like I said, some people on the desk and a lot of our cards can have your branding.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so it s just a way to kind of like,
1
SPEAKER_00
For instance, one thing that a lot of people do is we have those kind of Z-fold calendars, and they ll send those out to their clients and customers, whether they re a dentist, a lawyer, whatnot.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so all year long, you have their name and phone number on someone s wall or office wall.
1
SPEAKER_00
And people just like the convenience of that.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s good.
1
SPEAKER_02
We re speaking with John Leffler today, who s sales manager at Cards Direct, a new partner of ours.
1
SPEAKER_02
You can find out more at cardsdirect.com.
1
SPEAKER_02
Go to the website, check it out, play around with some designs.
1
SPEAKER_02
And they re fine people.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I wouldn t think of them just as greeting cards, even though I know that s how we typically, that s the category we put cards in.
1
SPEAKER_02
I love them for note cards, just taking notes, sending them to somebody.
1
SPEAKER_02
We send out books occasionally.
1
SPEAKER_02
I ll just use them to put in a book.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I think they re great for a lot of different applications.
1
SPEAKER_01
I would say also, Bill, this is a lost art.
1
SPEAKER_01
This is something I don t personally.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not my skill, my thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think talking to John is firm.
1
SPEAKER_01
And just in general, when we re looking to stand out, we typically don t go down the digital route.
1
SPEAKER_01
We do that on the podcast, too.
1
SPEAKER_01
How do I brand myself on LinkedIn and do videos?
1
SPEAKER_01
What a great way to brand yourself differently with personalized, handwritten note, that sort of thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s just a different deal.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think, too, you talked about it hard to throw away.
1
SPEAKER_01
You go to someone s office sometimes, and what do you see sitting around?
1
SPEAKER_01
You see cards and pictures.
1
SPEAKER_01
still around their workspace.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_01
This is hard to throw away.
1
SPEAKER_02
So good stuff, John.
1
SPEAKER_02
I appreciate you.
1
SPEAKER_02
John, thanks for being on.
1
SPEAKER_02
And by the way, one of the best parts is if you go to CardsDirect.com slash ASP, you get 25% off your order plus free shipping.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s CardsDirect.com forward slash ASP.
1
SPEAKER_02
John, thanks for being on today.
1
SPEAKER_02
We appreciate it, man.
1
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for having me.
1
SPEAKER_01
My pleasure.
1
SPEAKER_01
Hey, before you go, so I just texted Stephanie here.
1
SPEAKER_01
So her favorite song, I mean, she said Screaming Infidelity.
1
SPEAKER_01
She said that s everyone s favorite song, so that s kind of lame.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I don t think it s lame.
1
SPEAKER_00
No, I m sure you don t.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s kind of lame.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then, again, I go unnoticed.
1
SPEAKER_01
And the places you have come to fear the most?
1
SPEAKER_00
What s your girlfriend s name?
1
SPEAKER_00
Her name is Stephanie.
1
SPEAKER_00
Stephanie.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have heard of all of those songs.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s funny.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know all those songs.
1
SPEAKER_01
I figured you did.
1
SPEAKER_01
May have written a couple of them, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_02
Hey John, we appreciate your time today and thanks for being an advertiser and we ll try to send you leads that will make this a valuable investment for you.
1
SPEAKER_02
So we appreciate it.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right, Bill and Brian, you guys have a great day.
1
SPEAKER_00
Cheers, brother.
1
SPEAKER_00
Don t leave.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, see you, bye.
1
SPEAKER_01
After talking to John, the things that are resonating for me, two things.
1
SPEAKER_01
One is sometimes the answer to being unique is counterintuitive.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think I always tend to go down the path of the newie, flashy,
1
SPEAKER_01
cutting edge, everybody s doing it sort of thing, where this is a counterintuitive move to stand out.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it s absolutely, in my opinion, a move to stand out.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s no doubt when you get a handwritten card that s personalized from someone, it makes you feel good.
1
SPEAKER_01
Very few people open them like this.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s stupid, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t make you feel the same way when you get a text or even an email.
1
SPEAKER_01
It just doesn t.
1
SPEAKER_01
So that s the first thing for me.
1
SPEAKER_01
The second thing for me is,
1
SPEAKER_01
the idea of effort.
1
SPEAKER_01
Remember he talked about always being on, or he mentioned that?
1
SPEAKER_01
You always have to be on.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I thought, that s an interesting thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
Writing cards takes effort.
1
SPEAKER_01
It takes more effort than sending a text or an email.
1
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that s a good thing for me.
1
SPEAKER_01
If I m listening to this program, I m going, OK, what am I going to grab from this?
1
SPEAKER_01
Those are two things for me.
1
SPEAKER_01
Standing out can be counterintuitive, and effort always wins.
1
SPEAKER_01
You have to be on all the time.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
The one thing I like about his cards, actually, is the value of just a note card.
1
SPEAKER_02
I don t know that we send greeting cards here at the company.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m just not into that.
1
SPEAKER_02
But note cards, where if you have something, you would just want to say, hey, I enjoyed our meeting.
1
SPEAKER_02
That was a great meeting we had.
1
SPEAKER_02
And send it off.
1
SPEAKER_02
You could have it customized.
1
SPEAKER_02
You could have your name, your logo, your company.
1
SPEAKER_02
It could have a quote.
1
SPEAKER_02
You could buy these with quotes, quotes that really mean something to you.
1
SPEAKER_02
Those are kind of cool.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you have to kind of expand your thinking from just a box of greeting cards that says Happy Thanksgiving on them to, how can you
1
SPEAKER_02
Brand these in a way that, like you said, causes you to stand out, be unique.
1
SPEAKER_01
Speaking of which, I ve got to put that on my to-do list.
1
SPEAKER_01
Send my Thanksgiving card.
1
SPEAKER_01
That is great.
1
SPEAKER_01
It would be more fun, right, if you sent a Thanksgiving card instead of a Christmas card?
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s funny.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
All right.
1
SPEAKER_02
All right.
1
SPEAKER_02
So anyway, I hope you enjoyed the John Loeffler interview.
1
SPEAKER_02
And once again, we appreciate their sponsorship.
1
SPEAKER_02
And we ll see you next time.
1
Bye.