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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in the world of podcasting.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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I m Brian Neal over here.
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And we release an episode, for those of you who are fairly new and don t know us, every Monday, every Monday morning, we ve got a brand new episode.
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And we ve been doing that for nearly 17 years.
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In fact, we re coming up on, yeah, 17 year anniversary is in September.
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And of course, 17 is a big one.
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It is.
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I mean, what do we get?
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Podcasts, cicadas, what else comes in 17?
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Cicadas, graduation from high school. 17.
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Yeah, it s about time to prime number.
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I think I wonder why the that s good.
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I love prime numbers.
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I wonder why I m curious about the cicadas though.
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I mean, I don t want to get us off big tangent here, but the 17-year cicada is a thing.
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We had the 17-year skid hatch for years ago, right?
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So waiting again.
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I don t know, that s a mystery.
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I think it s a mystery to anybody who tries to explain it to you.
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I m sure we have someone who s, is it an etymologist?
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Is it a bug person?
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Is it an etymologist?
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I think so.
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I bet somebody in our listening tribe either is or has a friend who s an etymologist who can explain
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or dare we pull fact-checker Doug out of the woodwork after all these years.
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17 years, Doug Drozen gets back in the game of fact-checking, our 17-year cicada.
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So I had a, went on a little vacation, I mentioned that last episode, quick getaway, flew southward, and I fly Delta Air.
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One quick, one quick question.
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An etymologist is somebody who studies the origin of words.
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Oh, shoot.
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Yes.
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What s the bug?
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I don t know.
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I don t know.
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There s a bug one, too, isn t it?
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Unless you are thinking about studying the word cicada.
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I m not.
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Is that what you meant?
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Interested.
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I m not.
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No, but I m pretty sure it s a Latin derivative.
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Could be.
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Shout out to Brenda Waddle, my Latin teacher.
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Yeah, I don t know.
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Let s look at, so we have to do this now.
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Study of bugs, right?
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Study of bugs is, study of insects is,
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Entomology, entomology, not entomology.
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Entomology.
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Entomologist is a study of insects.
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So you were close.
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You were close.
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It s right there.
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Entomologist.
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If you have an entomologist in your family.
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So, uh, I digress.
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We were flying, flying home, flying Southwest.
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I fly Delta for football.
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So you know how that goes.
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You get status and blah, blah, blah.
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I fly Southwest for convenience.
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I love Southwest.
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A lot of people complain about it.
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I don t mind.
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Yeah.
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But we were lining up and you know how you line up right at Southwest.
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It s great.
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Like everyone just everyone s very friendly, very nice.
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Like, what are you?
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I m, you know, a 15.
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Okay, cool.
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I m, I m 16.
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I m right behind you here.
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And it s a little tight, you know, you re just like, so we re standing there and you know, the, the, the little podium, little bar, the bars are like one to five back, right.
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And then six to 10.
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So this guy walks up,
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with a wife and his daughter, it s kind of like a scowl on his face and he looks at me and goes, what are you?
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Just like that, what are you?
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I go, A11.
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He turns his back to me and goes, back there.
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And so I m like, okay.
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Are you serious?
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Totally.
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And I was right behind him.
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He was like a 10, you know, and it s too close.
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And then he was like backing up into the little area.
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And I m like, Whoa, bro.
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He like bumped into me.
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And I was like, I should not, you know, I kind of, I was like, geez, he turned around and glared at me again.
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I m like, sorry, dude.
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I thought that I was in your way there.
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Just I m backing up here.
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And then it s like this crowd of the woman behind me is like, what s up with them?
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I m like, I don t know.
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So I just wonder sometimes, I always applaud the Southwest traveler because everyone is very friendly.
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And for the first time, I had my, you know, the guy who was in charge of lining everyone up in the Southwest deal.
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I just send a little prayer for the guy.
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I m like, hope his day gets better.
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It was rough.
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My wife did validate me and say his wife was chewing his butt for being so mean to people.
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So I don t know what s going on.
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Yeah, I don t know.
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Well, there you go.
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Something s going on.
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There s the origin of that right there.
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It just lacks a little common sense.
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We can t all fit there.
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Everyone s got bags and stuff.
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So you just get in line.
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And you know what?
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If you re A11.
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I don t care.
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And someone in front of me is A13.
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There s one person.
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I m like, who cares?
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It s not going to change where I sit.
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You ve probably paid $30 or something to be first.
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Yeah, to go up to A16.
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So it s fine.
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Whatever.
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We re going to get.
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It s not like you have deplorable seas coming into your airspace.
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I don t think so.
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No, it s not like the middle seat people.
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You know, those middle seaters who are coming down in the full flight.
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There s kind of, you know, nowhere to go but the middle.
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Sorry, y all.
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It s kind of fun.
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I love the psychology of the Southwest boarding process.
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It s very interesting to me.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I ve never, I ve never experienced that, but yeah, he is having a bad day.
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So a little prayer for him, a little hope it goes better.
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But if you re flying Southwest, you know what I mean?
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If you re a Southwest frequent flyer, just, uh, you know, be kind as they say in this today s world, just be kind, be kind.
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Be kind, because you don t know what other people are going through.
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No, no, no, gotta let them be.
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And he got a great seat, let me tell you, the guy.
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I mean, they were right in front of us, great seats for the flight.
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I mean, couldn t have been better, no.
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But I intentionally, there was an open row behind him, I couldn t sit behind him just in case, I was still like, I gotta go sit over there.
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I was questioning your strategy, sir.
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Now, exactly.
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Well, and then the snarky side of me said, maybe I should sit behind him and like, do like a two year old, like, you know, kicking the seed and pulling, pulling the little trade down really hard and aggressively and putting it back up and all this stuff and sneezing and stuff.
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And I hear him.
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All right.
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All right, so let s do a topic.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, you had a topic, and I think it s a good one.
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And we re going to kind of be making this up as we go a little bit.
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But I do think it s a topic that is relevant to almost everybody listening today.
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Yes, and this topic came from my coach.
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His name is David Meltzer.
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He s a salesperson, a leadership coach.
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And we started getting into this subject about sales environment, what it s like in the economy right now for salespeople.
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And he brought up this idea.
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He said, I want you to think about this.
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I m like, OK, I ll think about it and then I ll give it to Bill and he ll think about it.
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So I ll think about it.
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And that is the idea of we re cutting back or the cutback.
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And we re hearing this, and several of our clients, I m sure yours are too, Bill, are hearing this, both from existing clients, say, hey, yeah, it s renewal time for the contract or something.
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Hey, Bill, I want to talk to, we re cutting back, you know.
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And we re hearing it from new clients, new logos that say, yeah, we re just not going to do anything right now because we re cutting back.
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We re just hearing this cutting back.
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And Dave s challenge for me was, how do you teach people to become the cutback?
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How do you teach them that you are part of the cutback, whether it s an existing client or a new client when you hear that?
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And I think giving some voice to how to prepare for that would be a really good thing for our episode today.
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So when you say cutback, you re referring to budgets, expenditures being cut back.
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That s the common, you know, the comp, when you say this to people, that s what they think.
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I think there s more to it.
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Uh, I also think there s a cutback of time investment.
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So we ve seen this where we say, Hey, we, you know, we re doing, we re spending a lot of time coaching and trying, we need to get out.
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We didn t make sure we were taking some of that time and spending it on customer visits and things like that.
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And I m like, okay,
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really?
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Like, do you want me to follow you around with a GoPro camera and audit your time?
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Because I bet you re wasting a lot of it, you know?
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So I think it is a little bit of that.
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And then I don t know if it s also just general pruning.
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So like, people might have, you know, 1518 software providers, and they re looking at that going, we don t use half as right, right.
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So let s just get it s not necessarily even about them.
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Because because the one of the software companies might be, you know, 10 bucks a month, and you re like, well, not that much money.
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It s just not about that.
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It s about cleaning house.
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I think slowdowns generally lend themselves to that cleaning out the cupboard and pruning back things that you re just not really using.
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But the first question I would always ask is, is that an excuse for something else that maybe the sales organization is doing or not doing that is giving the customer the chance to cut?
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But if they don t see it that way, then they may cut that.
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And ours is not an insignificant monthly fee to cut, if you re a company.
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So I think that s a good point.
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I think that s a good point.
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I think that s a good point.
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I think that s a good point.
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I think that s a good point.
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I think that s a good point.
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I think that s a good point.
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I think that s a good point.
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I think that s a good point.
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The question is, have we lost sight of why we re even there in the first place?
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And then they become easier to use the knife on us because we re not really providing the value, or we re not talking about the value we re providing.
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Love that.
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Yeah, I think sometimes in existing relationships, we tend to assume motive never changes.
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Motive always stays the same year after year.
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We know that that s not the case.
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We also know that in a slowdown or headwind economy, that motive changes quicker than it does when we re cooking along no problem.
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And so that s a good to do.
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And I might just be restating what we ve already said, Bill, here is how regularly are we going back to test motive?
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Even are we the ones that are bringing up new motive?
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I think we really make ourselves a good partner.
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When I say, hey, Bill, heading into the back half of the year, here s what y all need to be doing that you re not doing with me.
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We ve been doing this thing.
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We need to stop.
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We need to do that.
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But we re also going to do deal inspection.
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You tell them what they need to do before they say, hey, Bill, we re cutting back.
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I think that s the key right there.
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I think we could talk about this topic all day.
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But if you are not bringing up ideas to help them grow their business top line, cut their cost bottom line, or efficiency in doing both of those, then you re not of much value to them.
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And I think we all need to.
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I mean, I know this is a good topic for me to ask myself, am I really providing the kind of value that I said earlier that I want to provide?
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And if I m not, how can I re-engage that and come up with, whether it s a 90-day plan or whether you talk to the CEO or the president and say, look, we re getting ready to plan next 90 days.
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What s on your agenda?
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What s on your mind?
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If we don t, it s too easy for that CEO to say, why are we paying Neil Kasky, whoever, all this money?
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to 100%.
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We have to be the ones.
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We have to be more assertive in this process to say, here s why you re paying me, and here s why you should keep paying me, and here s what we should do with the time and the knowledge that we ve got to share with you.
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We should do this instead of that, without question.
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Because there s always a way to ratchet up the value.
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There s always a way.
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There s no way you are delivering.
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I don t mean you, Brian, or me, but you as a listener.
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There s no way you re delivering all the value that you bring.
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Just no way.
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Because it s almost not feasible to do that.
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So maybe because you re listening to this episode, you go back and take your top 10 accounts and say, are they really using me in the best possible fashion?
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And I ll bet your answer, 80% of the time, is close, but they could be doing a little more.
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And so you ve got to bring that to them.
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Yes.
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And what I see people do in slowdown or resistance or we re cutting back economies is they actually do the opposite.
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They go a little bit more turtle shell defensive, like don t say anything, don t bring it up, because I don t want to alarm them.
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And we should be doing the opposite.
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We should be running into the danger here.
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It s very, very important to do that.
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So the other thing, another subject here is think about your offering, your core offering, whatever that is, and whether you could sell software, you could be a service provider, whatever that is, and ask yourself, is my core offering, and I know Bill, you re a fan of this, is it packaged in a way that addresses a cutback or a slowdown?
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And so when people say, ah, we re cutting back on our IT spend, do you have a programmatic thing that goes, that s actually great.
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That s what we re doing right now.
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So we have bundled some services together and put them into a cost effective, cost efficient manner for people that are cutting back so that you re not spending huge amounts of money, still getting the value and security that you need, blah, blah, blah.
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And then it becomes a product.
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So think about product and packaging.
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Is it positioned in a way and bundled in a way that addresses the market need right now?
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And if it s not, how can you do that?
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You know, past just like marketing spend, just same product saying a different thing.
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But, um, I would really look at your product offering and say, do I have something that addresses a slowdown?
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Yeah, I think when I hear you say that, it s a good one, because I think, well, so if somebody was listening and they called me and said, hey, I want you to train my sales team, and I would say, OK, you bring him into the office every week, and I ll fly in every week, and we ll do a two-hour training, and then I ll fly back.
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We ll do that for a year.
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Or we ll bring him in once a month.
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That s not that offer doesn t reflect the times that we re in we re in times where everybody s virtual and we re going to do it virtually we re not going to come in unless maybe we do it once or twice during the year as a special occasion, but your offer must reflect
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the times that we re in.
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And the times that we re in, in your scenario, is we re in cutback times.
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We re in a little bit of headwind.
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So does your offer, can you tweak it?
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Can you change it to reflect that so that you re on the leading edge of this, not being cut back by it, or to it, or of it?
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And I love your example, such a simple one, but people just don t think that way.
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Like, well, they ve always sold the thing.
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Like, yeah, we come out, we do this, we re three days on site and everything.
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And you say, why do we have to do that every time?
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Is that ideal?
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Yes.
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And can we have a different offering?
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Yes, we can.
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We can have a virtual offering.
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I think that s really, really important.
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We ve been rearranging the order of
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tools that we teach and putting the higher value tools and the current market condition tools that work the best up front, where in the past, we always went in the same order.
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Well, now we re going, hang on a second, there s some things that they don t usually learn until the sixth month that we need to bump way up because of the environment that we re in right now.
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That s interesting, because I m doing the exact same thing, looking at the order of how I deliver curriculum and rearranging it.
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Because sometimes, you re probably better at teaching something in month seven than you were two years ago.
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And that being better is better for them.
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And you need to move that up, because you re a better teacher of it.
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You ve got better examples, better tools.
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And so why would I wait until month seven to teach that?
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It s relevant enough.
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Along with that, this idea of what are some tools that people need in a headwind economy, and let s move those up front.
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Absolutely.
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Yep.
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And when we ask ourselves, why do we wait till month six or seven to teach that?
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It s because that s what we ve always done.
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That s always been the order of things.
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It s always gone in order.
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Like, well, does it have to?
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No.
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It s really, really good.
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I get you got one more.
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Well, I was thinking you re you also talked about once they say to you Well, we re not buying things like you sell anymore because we ve cut back.
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This is for a non-existing client So somebody s calling on coal brand new and they immediately drop into we re cutting back
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What do you do with that?
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And I think you have to, in some way, have them define what that means.
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Because it can mean a lot of things.
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It means we re laying off half of our workforce, like Twitter did or like Google has.
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It could mean we re just looking for 5% cuts in 10 area.
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It can mean a lot of things.
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And until you know what it means, it s hard for you to play into it.
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Yes.
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I love the idea for a communication or an example of framework for someone to think about this, and I know we ve talked about this before on the podcast, is think about spectrums versus binary language or examples.
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So to be absurd, someone goes, we re cutting back.
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I m like, you guys going out of business?
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You shutting doors now?
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No, no, no, no, no.
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So that s the far end of the spectrum.
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Bed, bath, and beyond, closing the doors.
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Oh, no, no, no, we re not going that far.
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OK, so where are we going then?
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Take me through that.
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That s a spectrum.
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So shutting a place down, that s the biggest form of cutback there is.
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You re not going to exist anymore.
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or move me forward to where you are, where you ve been, and then somewhere that, well, no, we re not going to have that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then you re into your things you talked about, Bill, or 10% reduction here or that or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I think sometimes salespeople tend to see things as binary, meaning, oh, we re cutting back.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that means they re not.
2
SPEAKER_00
We translate that to they re not spending any money on IT.
2
SPEAKER_00
If I sell it stuff, like that s not what they said.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, that s not what they said.
2
SPEAKER_00
Cause if they did that, then you d say, so you re, you re ripping all computers out of all infrastructure.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re going to just old, you re going to pencil, pencil, paper.
2
SPEAKER_00
Um, no, that s not what I mean.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you re not, you re not coming back.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s a little rough, but okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
You wouldn t like, you wouldn t mind though the pencils.
2
SPEAKER_01
Are you at the, you know, I would, I ve got my H eight right here.
2
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
2
SPEAKER_01
See, you could even say, are you now, when you say cutting back, are you cutting back at the blockbuster end of the spectrum?
2
SPEAKER_00
You re going all the way there.
2
SPEAKER_00
Last night I saw a family guy episode where he were.
2
SPEAKER_00
What s the dad s name on Family Guy?
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t watch it.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s unbelievable.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s still on TV.
2
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, they drove across the country to have a family movie night to the last blockbuster is in Bend, Oregon.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s still open.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely hilarious.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, check out that episode is very good.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so it s a great example.
2
SPEAKER_00
The blockbuster cutting back is really, really good.
2
SPEAKER_01
So part of this, too, is are you clear about your offer?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Are you clear about that offer?
2
SPEAKER_01
And have you, like you started with, Brian, have you tweaked it?
2
SPEAKER_01
And when you explain or describe the offer, are you clear about it?
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve been doing a lot of work with my clients on this whole idea of an offer.
2
SPEAKER_01
An offer sounds like buy one, get the second one free.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s not an offer in the business-to-business space.
2
SPEAKER_01
The offer is what are you going to do?
2
SPEAKER_01
What kinds of results are you anticipating?
2
SPEAKER_01
What are the guarantees?
2
SPEAKER_01
What s the process they re going to go through?
2
SPEAKER_01
Just be crystal clear about that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you can then add in this headwind
2
SPEAKER_01
you know, this headwind thing, which is cutbacks.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you can deal with it before it becomes a problem.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that repackaging and that repositioning of whatever you re offering is, can be modified directly to speak to that, to say, this is what we do.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we get companies that are cutback headwinds.
2
SPEAKER_00
We teach these three tools.
2
SPEAKER_00
We get so good at them.
2
SPEAKER_00
We can t miss them.
2
SPEAKER_00
We make them cultural.
2
SPEAKER_00
We install them.
2
SPEAKER_00
We audit them.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s what you need to be doing with us right now.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because people if they re not going all the way to zero, so like in our business, you wouldn t say so you re going to like no sales at all.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don t want any new sales.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, no, no, we want new sales.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
So we need to get really good, clear, really good at getting new sales.
2
SPEAKER_00
These are the things you need to do with Bill with Brian to get really good new sales right now.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s good people by that strength.
2
SPEAKER_01
So make sure, yeah, you should want that.
2
SPEAKER_01
You should want the customer to say that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Once you know how to handle it, they ll stop saying it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn to join our 15, 13, whatever, 1,000 people there.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can also find out more about our Insider, which is a monthly coaching program that we do.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s coming up here the first Friday of the month.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you can go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a video there that explains the whole thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think you would get a lot of value out of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Loads.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.