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Hey, gang, before we get started on today s podcast, I want to share with you the upcoming Insider Training on June 3rd at noon Eastern.
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We ll be addressing counterintuitive strategies, those strategies that might not be familiar to you but are definitely not familiar to your marketplace.
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These are the strategies that work.
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I have 10 of them that will get you started.
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See you in June.
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Go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider for more and to join.
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Welcome, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest-running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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And I m Bill Kasky.
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We are here every week for your listening enjoyment.
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Hopefully, you ll learn a little bit along the way.
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Two things to know about.
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We talk about it a lot.
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If you haven t been around in the LinkedIn group, that s the place to be these days.
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So go join our LinkedIn group.
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And also, if you re not a member of the Insider Program, crazy on you.
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Crazy on you.
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Great song by Heart.
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Also, speaking of the topic.
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Segue, exactly.
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Right.
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Yeah, I had Insider two Fridays ago, and we talked about some modern referral strategies.
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And I ll be talking next week about what we re going to be doing in June, because I think it s a little bit different.
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Yeah, but check that out.
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That s the biggest bang for your buck in the sales coaching universe.
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I m telling you.
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Advancedsellingpodcast.com slash Insider.
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And there s a video that Brian and I did there, and there s upcoming topics and things like that.
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Yeah.
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Bill, you went to see an iconic performer, did you not?
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I did.
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We saw two concerts.
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And we ve got, my wife works at the Palladium, which is in Carmel, which is a suburb of Indianapolis.
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And it s a very nice, it s like a, it s just a cool venue for big acts.
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But it s not a huge, it s like 2,000 seats.
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So we get decent acts there.
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We never get big acts.
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John Legend came here about a year and a half ago.
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We get a lot of people, cover bands or tribute bands or whatever you want to call them.
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But Sting, the British rocker singer, heard about this venue from a buddy of his who played at it.
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And they said, you ought to talk to those people.
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They re great there.
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And so it was one of those things that this Palladium got Sting, which I don t think Sting usually plays at 2,000 seat arenas.
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I think probably it s a little larger, not stadiums.
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But anyway, the point of the story is that he s 70 years old.
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And I was listening to him interviewed about three months ago by a guy named Rick Barretto.
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Have you ever seen him?
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Yeah.
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He does the music videos.
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Yeah, totally.
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Love him.
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Is it Barretto?
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I don t think it s Barretto.
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Follow him.
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No, I know who you re talking about, though.
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Yeah.
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We ll look it up.
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Anyway, it might be.
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Anyway, he landed Sting as an interview.
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And Sting and the guy that has been with him for 35 years were on.
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And so this was just six months ago.
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Sting was 69 then.
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The point is that you should have heard him talk about music and about his craft and about how he writes songs today differently than he did 20 years ago.
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processes that he goes through.
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And I m like, most people at 70 are counting the days.
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They re clipping coupons, as we used to say.
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But Sting is trying to reinvent himself.
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And he has.
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And he s not ashamed of what he s done in the past.
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So he played a lot of that music.
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But he s constantly trying to, OK, what s the writing look like?
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And can I write different?
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And I thought, what a great lesson for all of us who are over
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40 or 50 is we do have to keep reinventing ourselves.
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Because the same music that he sang 25 years ago is not going to play well today.
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It s good as a memory and nostalgia, but it s not.
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And I don t know how many people I know who are 70, actually none, who are planning on reinventing themselves.
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But I think it also applies for a 55-year-old person as well.
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So I wanted to see what you thought about that.
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I love Sting, and I grew up in the 80s, so that was wheelhouse music for us.
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He was just an iconic rock god in all ways, musically, lyrically.
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A singing bass player was cool for those music nerds like me.
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Um, you know, the ladies loved him.
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He s still ripped.
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Right.
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I mean, he takes phenomenal care of himself.
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Um, super open and just funny and humble too.
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He seems like you said, I think in the pre-show we re talking about it, he could seem aloof, but he s not, he s very, I always imagined him being that way.
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Cause he wasn t really on interview shows.
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I mean, he wasn t really out there that way.
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He was just doing his music.
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Yeah.
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No, he was very,
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I love the idea of constant exploration, constant yearning to find the next thing with good intention.
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What he s not doing is trying to write another number one hit right now, I m guessing.
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He s not trying to blow it up the charts, necessarily.
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He s writing from a place of really good core intention and giving the world his gift.
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I also, as someone that plays music,
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People think musicians, and this does happen, so they think music just sort of pops out, right?
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It just appears.
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And there s a craft to it.
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There s a process they go through.
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And they try, and they explore, and they experiment.
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That doesn t sound right.
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And they get frustrated, and they stop.
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Like, I just can t find the next chord.
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Or that note needs to be resolved.
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It s not resolving.
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What s wrong with it?
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And they scratch out lyrics.
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That s all part of this growth thing.
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And then when we develop a 60-minute presentation, we cobble it together at the last minute.
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We don t even rehearse it.
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We just go, man, if we miss a sentence, if we say something wrong, oh, well.
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And then a guy like him, it s a craft.
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I mean, writing and assembling of ideas is a craft.
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And maybe we could learn something on that end, too.
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Treat your communication, whether it s the upfront part when you go in and talk to somebody or a presentation or a speech, treat it like the craft that it is.
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You re an artist in many ways.
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You re a creator.
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You have ideas that have to be shared in a way that people can consume.
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And that s more than just cobbling some PowerPoints together.
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That is so true.
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And it s so accurate to songwriting, too.
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I can guarantee you people like him or like Bono from U2, they re not trying to jam every chord and every note into the song.
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They re not trying to jam as many lyrics as they can.
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They re trying to make this piece that is simple, that flows, that s connected, all that stuff.
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We do presentations, right?
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We jam as much stuff as we can in there, right?
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Yeah, let s go.
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Let s go.
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Let s do eight bullets on this one, right?
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He s not he s not going.
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Okay, let s go from there.
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It looks weird.
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Yes.
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I mean, I know there have been songs in, you know, in the past that have done that, but
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Less is more.
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I said to people I went with, I said, Sting s the only guy that can take a sentence, hey, can you get me a drink of water?
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I got to get this dirt out of my throat.
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And those are the first two lines to one of his newer songs.
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But when he sings it, it s like, wow.
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I get a drink of water.
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Everybody s rushing out.
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Sting needs water.
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That s so funny.
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It s so true, isn t it?
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Well, good segue.
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The topic we want to talk about today, and we re going to riff on it today on purpose, is the topic of discipline.
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And from discipline spurns accountability.
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I said that wrong.
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How would I say that, Bill?
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Accountability comes from discipline.
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That s the easier way to say it.
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Or does it?
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Or is it backwards?
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That sort of thing.
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And we just talked about this.
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Does Sting have a way that he writes music and he s practicing still?
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And he s playing bass and piano and he s writing.
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And he doesn t just write when he feels like it.
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Maybe he goes in the studio certain times.
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I just heard a famous current rapper.
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who talked about, he was on this radio show, and he talked about it, he s a young guy, 25, stopped drinking.
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And they said, do you have a problem?
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He said, I don t have a problem drinking.
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He goes, but I m focused, I m on my craft.
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And he had this song that went to number one.
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And they said, well, what did you do?
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Did you celebrate with champagne?
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He s like, no, we went to the studio, started recording again.
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He s like, I m going.
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He goes, someday I ll celebrate and have a glass of champagne, but for now, that s discipline.
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Young guy, I m like, was really, really interested in,
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So let s riff on that topic, that discipline topic a little bit.
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Yeah, so the first thing I think of when you tell that story or when I told the Sting story about reinventing himself, there s a certain element of their craft that they love.
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I don t know if they love songwriting.
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It probably does.
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He probably does.
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But I think when we use the word discipline,
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We automatically go to, well, we re having to do something we don t really want to do.
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It requires discipline.
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I don t need discipline to go get a dessert tonight after dinner.
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I don t have to be prodded.
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Jane doesn t have to say, come on, please.
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I want to get you dessert.
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It s like, where are we going?
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When are we going?
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How quickly can we?
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I don t have to be prodded.
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doesn t take any discipline.
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The discipline required there is not eating the dessert.
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And in business, you have to look at the things that you re required to do or that you know you have to do to be successful and ask yourself, where is my enjoyment level of these things?
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Because if you can flip that switch to where you enjoy
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inviting people to a webinar versus making cold calls trying to get appointments.
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If you can switch the activity to where you enjoy it, you won t need discipline.
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You ll just do it because it s just who you are.
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You enjoy the interaction.
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And so that s one thing that I think about discipline is it can have a little negative connotation to it because of how it s been used in the past.
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I know it s not the way you re using it here, but I think it can have that.
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It absolutely can.
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It s so interesting.
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And my head didn t go there.
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That s brilliant.
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Like, it does have it discipline feels like I m going to be restricted or constrained.
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Or like you said, do things I don t have to do.
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And if you Yeah, I love that.
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Because the the behaviors that you love to do and that you re good at don t feel, you know,
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Like even me, like I play the piano.
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I don t ever feel like pressure to play.
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I play because I love to do it.
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And it s fun.
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I sit over there and hang.
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We do this.
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Same with the podcast.
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Good gosh.
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We talk about discipline.
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We ve been doing this thing for 15 years.
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I don t feel one ounce of discipline required to do this, though.
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Zero.
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Zero.
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None.
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Because it s so just easy and natural and enjoyable.
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and has created a great platform and a great audience and great connections.
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So when you hear a VP of sales or a CEO refer to their teams as undisciplined or not accountable, how do we take what we just talked about and work that into that equation?
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Because I don t think they re thinking about that when they say that.
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No.
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No, they re not.
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They re thinking about KPIs.
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And they re thinking about things that they think the team should be disciplined in.
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Uh, and not honing in on what s causing this effect of not being disciplined.
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What, you know, could they make it, uh, feel a different way?
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Yeah.
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That s totally what they re thinking about.
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Um,
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And my wife, who s also our CEO, follows a woman named Danielle LaPorte.
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Have you heard of Danielle LaPorte?
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Yeah.
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She s very, like a thinker.
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I like her.
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She s great.
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But her kind of cornerstone philosophy is instead of chasing things, instead of chasing quota, instead of chasing number of contacts, you chase desired feelings.
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chase desired feelings.
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And that starts to ease in some of these behaviors that go along with it.
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Our own desired feelings.
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Our own desired feelings.
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So if you go to Dairy Queen and get what we used to call twosies in my family, and you get an ice cream cone and a shake,
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Wow.
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Tell me this is this one thing, right?
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So then you get twosies.
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Well, then you feel like dog crap.
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Right?
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And you know, and that so that it just doesn t feel good at all.
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For you like crap, you know, you know, he s like, why did I do that?
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You also in sales know how it feels.
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If you don t engage with your audience, if you don t
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put yourself out in the marketplace, and your funnel s light, you know how that feels.
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You get anxious, worried, nervous, afraid you might get fired, think you re not going to make the commission you re going to make, all those things.
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So you chase the feeling of peacefulness and comfort in my funnel.
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I always know what I have.
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I ve got certainty.
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I chase certainty in my funnel.
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Those sort of things, those desired feelings, change the air of the behaviors.
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I don t know if they speak to the other part, though, you said, Bill, which is, do I still like to do the things?
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Yeah, you re still talking about a destination of the feeling I want when I have done this work versus the, do I love the work?
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Do I like what it is?
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Totally.
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Absolutely.
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And sometimes I think we can, as I said earlier, we can take the behaviors.
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Like let s suppose that you re listening to this episode and
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And you re in the telecom business.
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And one of the things that your manager wants you to do is make, whatever, 10 dials a day to book one appointment.
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Whatever.
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You ve all seen the cookbook thing.
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So the question becomes, well, I don t like making cold calls.
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OK.
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So you have to reframe that.
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You have to tweak that perspective.
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And so what could we tweak it to do
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One thing that I would recommend is do you have any type of knowledge
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that the person you re calling would like to get access to?
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Any kind of insight?
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Has your company published a white paper?
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Have they published some kind of a checklist?
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And can you make that call through the spirit of giving them something versus the spirit of trying to wedge your way into a meeting?
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And if I can call and say, look, we just published a white paper.
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I have no idea if you might be interested in it.
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It speaks to three topics, primarily A, B, and C. Would you like to get a copy of it?
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If you would, great.
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If you wouldn t, no problem.
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And then that starts a conversation because you re gifting something to them rather than asking for something from them.
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I mean, we ve talked about that.
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That s just one simple thing.
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It s and what s coming up for me on the tying it back to your first comments about what I love to do is I will start to explore things that can create conversations that I love to do.
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So one of those is like you said, OK, so one of them is sharing things.
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People I love to share good news or I love to share knowledge with people.
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Some people like to like be a party host.
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They love to invite people to things.
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So then you become a person that invites people to webinars and things.
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Some people love to do what we do.
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They love the podcast, the radio, the camera.
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So they produce content for those people.
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Some people love to write.
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So if you re a writer, then you be the one that writes that sort of thing.
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Some people like to be a connector.
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They like to, so you put your clients.
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I m just throwing out this list so you can circle explore, right?
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What are the, of all that big list, what do I love to do?
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And that s what you should do 95% of your time, right?
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So all those things that you mentioned there, this is a journey, but all those things you mentioned, even the connectors, there is a creative element to them.
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The writing, the production, the audio, and even, again, the connecting.
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It s not just as simple as calling somebody and sharing the email or emailing.
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There s a creative way to execute those things.
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So maybe what we re talking about here is the discipline of creativity.
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is, are we looking at our business life, all of the responsibilities and obligations we have, from the spirit of creativity?
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Or are we just looking at it from the spirit of, it s wrote, I got to do this.
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God, I ain t making these calls, but I got to do it.
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And if you re not bringing any creativity into it, it s no wonder you don t enjoy it.
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One of the things that makes him phenomenal, and I met a new friend, I should say, at an event Saturday.
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And she said, I just went there for the first time.
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I said, here s one thing I can guarantee you.
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In eight years, I ve never, ever, ever in eight years done the same workout twice, ever.
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And that s one of Mark s gift is the creativity in something that s usually a grind.
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And I m telling you, that s one of his gifts.
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He had- You look slower to going probably.
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Oh my God.
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We ve been, like we got, we got my, I ve got a huge SUV.
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The guys I work out with are, you know, one of them s 50 or I m 52, one s 50, that guy s 49.
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We, Mark got in my SUV, he goes, your SUV out there?
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I m like, yeah, okay, give me the keys.
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He puts it in neutral.
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We push my SUV with him in it around the parking lot, taking turns.
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And he s like, if you guys get it up this hill, you know, we re all going to breakfast.
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I ll buy your breakfast afterwards.
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Like this little, I m like, who does that?
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You know what I mean?
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It s so fun.
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SPEAKER_01
You know, he s taking pictures of it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then it s everything.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s got a balance beam in there.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like we do balance beam work.
1
SPEAKER_01
All I m doing is validating that when you do this, people are drawn to it.
1
SPEAKER_01
This discipline of creativity to think of a new different way to do something.
1
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, Tony Robbins talks about the six areas of motivation, certainty, love, but one is adventure or the new, the innovative.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think that applies not just in how we treat other people, like how Mark treats you guys, but it s also Mark probably has to keep himself motivated.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so he s constantly thinking about, how do I keep this thing interesting to me so that I can then keep it interesting for my clients?
1
SPEAKER_00
Constantly.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so I think the discipline thing, we ve kind of gone down the path of thinking about it a little bit differently than the traditional discipline.
1
SPEAKER_00
Come on, give me 25 push-ups.
2
SPEAKER_00
All right, give me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Burpees, burpees, burpees.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re in trouble.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do burpees.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s what you do.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you fail, you do more burpees.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, what are we doing?
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love this.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I love this idea of reframing discipline is really what this episode has been about.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we hope that you can then find, because like Bill and I said earlier, we don t need discipline to record this podcast.
2
SPEAKER_00
We need no, there s no discipline.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we are more disciplined in this than almost anything else that either of us probably do in our business, at least.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know where I need discipline and a new way to think about the activity is stretching.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know it s going to sound weird.
2
SPEAKER_01
Flexibility and stretching.
2
SPEAKER_01
I have no trouble going to the gym.
2
SPEAKER_01
I have no trouble doing all that stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I always shortcut flex.
2
SPEAKER_01
I always shortcut stretching.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I should do it for 15 minutes, and I do it for 3 and 1 1.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I get injured, or I get a little, oh,
2
SPEAKER_01
How s that?
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s all because I don t stretch.
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SPEAKER_01
So I m just putting that out there that I need to rework and rewire my discipline around that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And maybe that has something to do with Daniel Laporte s, I need to have the feeling of flexibility.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if I can buy into that and see myself there, the actual stretching is not that difficult.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then move into the creative space of that.
2
SPEAKER_00
What could creative stretching look like?
2
SPEAKER_00
Are there creative stretching environments out there?
2
SPEAKER_00
There are people who actually do stretching now.
2
SPEAKER_00
like do classes and stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so there s just all of a sudden like, oh, your brain goes in different directions, starts to create discipline in a new way.
2
SPEAKER_00
Love it.
2
SPEAKER_00
All right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you haven t joined Insider, go do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Advancedsellingpodcast.com slash Insider.
2
SPEAKER_00
Best spend, best bang for your buck in the sales training universe without question.
2
SPEAKER_00
And be sure you re a member of our LinkedIn podcast community, Advanced Selling Podcast community.
2
SPEAKER_01
be spending a lot more time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is it too corny to say we do love our listeners?
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, gosh, no.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because we do.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, we really do.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re so engaging.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re very, very loyal, which we appreciate.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re not know-it-alls.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re always trying to find an edge.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think they enjoy us, and we enjoy them.
2
SPEAKER_01
We love them.
2
SPEAKER_01
Keep in touch.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, keep in touch on LinkedIn and the group, and let us know if you have any topic ideas or what you think of the podcast.
2
SPEAKER_01
We d love to hear from you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bravo.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.
2
you.