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Oh, hallelujah.
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Welcome everybody to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in the history of podcasts.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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Brian said hallelujah because he finally got his audio correct.
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It all works now.
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So that was the hallelujah.
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I m having a bad studio day here, Bill.
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And I m Bill Kasky, and we re glad you re with us today.
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Thanks for having me on today, Brian.
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It s not my show.
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Obviously, looking like I m standing in front of a
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Hey, I got a funny stuff.
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I don t know if it s funny.
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I guess we ll let the audience decide.
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But we were celebrating in September.
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And I think this episode will go out on October 1st, October.
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But last month, we were celebrating our 17th anniversary of the podcast.
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And so I went back trying to find, we should have done this in September, trying to find episode one.
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Because I wanted to hear how we sounded.
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I couldn t find that.
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I couldn t locate that.
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But I found an episode that we did in October of 16, which might have been episode three or four.
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And I thought, oh, I m going to listen to this and see how different, how bad we were, or how different we were.
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Interesting thing, we sounded no different.
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We sounded no different than we did.
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And I m thinking, we haven t improved one iota.
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That s how you get to be the longest running.
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You just don t change anything for 17 years.
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And it really was kind of shocking.
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I mean, our voices were a little different, but not very.
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And I just thought either we were okay when we started or we just are still bad.
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We haven t improved at all.
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Well, the equipment s improved.
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That s for sure.
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Yeah.
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So yeah, we had some pretty good equipment there.
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But the point is that I thought, well, we should play.
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If we were really bad, I thought it d be funny.
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But no, that wouldn t be funny.
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Wasn t that bad?
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Which means this isn t that good.
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That s right.
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Yeah.
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One of the two.
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All right.
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Yeah.
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I heard him speak at a on a podcast that I listened to quite a bit and this guy had him on.
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It was a special event.
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They did in Miami Patrick bet David.
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I don t know if you know Patrick or know he is but he has a big podcast more of a YouTube channel than a podcast, but he had Brady on and he s a great guy.
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He s a great guy.
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He s a great guy.
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He s a great guy.
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He s a great guy.
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He s a great guy.
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He s a great guy.
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He s a great guy.
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And I cannot believe, and whether you like him or not, I know he just kind of creates a lot of love in the New England area and hate everywhere else.
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But when you hear him speak today, he is a really bright guy.
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I mean, he just, he commanded the stage.
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You should have, I mean, it was impressive.
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Even Patrick, the, the host one time, five minutes in goes, you ve changed brother.
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What, what is with you?
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You, cause he just, his stories were concise and they were clever and it was funny.
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And I thought that s not the Tom Brady we knew for many years because he really wasn t allowed.
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I mean, he even said, he goes, well, we weren t allowed to say much in our press conferences.
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So we didn t.
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But boy, if you want some inspiration on how he has battled being fifth string all his life, it s a fascinating story.
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And it really is inspiring.
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Whether you like him or not, you ve got to take some of the emotion out.
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But have you experienced the same thing with him?
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Yeah.
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But when he was on the field, I mean, you see what you see.
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I mean, there s just no one that works the way he works.
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It s unbelievable.
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There s an intensity there that I always wonder, is that level of intensity teachable or is it God given?
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And it, you know, and, and it s like, you know, you see people, you hear this all the time in athletics, mostly, sometimes you see it in businesses, people play with a chip on their shoulder, a little cliche, but they play with a chip.
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on their shoulder.
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So, they re thinking, eh, you know, you didn t pick me or out like I was the fifth string.
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So, that s a bad thing to do.
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There s a certain perfect combination of that, right?
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Where you have all this athletic ability and mental and emotional ability and you have the chip at the same time.
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Because sometimes the chip on the shoulder can be debilitating.
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That s right.
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And he even mentioned that.
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He said, you know, 28 teams had passed me over five times in the draft.
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Yeah, he goes, I m going to make them pay.
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And it was kind of a throwaway line, but you know, it was there.
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It was in the sandwich.
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No doubt.
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There s no, there s absolutely no doubt.
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And the other thing I thought was interesting about it is how he relied on his team, not teammates, but his psychological coach, his nutrition coach, his stretching coach.
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He had a coach in high school to help him get his throwing motion down.
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He had a coach at Michigan who helped him with mindset and how to handle the setbacks and things like that.
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This guy really relied.
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He went out and found people who could help him with parts of his game that were deficient.
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And I feel like that s, I mean, you have clients and I have clients who have reached out to us, but that s a rare thing to have somebody who s that good still say, I need help in this area.
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And I think that s something that we all need to look at.
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And I know you ve employed coaches as have I, and they re invaluable.
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And for any listener who feels like they re not
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you know, not creating the kind of results they want.
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You need to look into, are there people that you can surround yourself with, paid or unpaid, who can help you?
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It s so funny, too, because the resistance around that people say, well, I really don t have the time to do that as an investor.
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That s a lot of money.
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And they just don t look at it.
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If you look at it that way, you re dead on arrival.
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You re dead.
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Yeah.
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You got to see it as the long term.
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I had a young salesperson that I do coaching for.
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And I offer my mobile phone number to any, all my clients.
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And that s a bunch of them.
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And not very many people call.
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You do the same thing, Bill, right?
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Not many of them call.
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And our last coaching call, and I called him out at this event.
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I was at theater night.
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His name s Leo.
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I think he listens.
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I go, what are we talking about today?
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We have 15 minute coaching call.
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He goes, well, I m going to be a million dollar producer this year, which is really, really good for his second year.
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He goes, I want to know what do $10 million producers do and think?
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What do $10 million producers do and think?
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I want to be like them.
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I said, you already are.
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He s like, huh?
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I go, you know what they do?
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They ask the question that you just asked.
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How do I become a $10 million producer?
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That s the answer right there.
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And then you just find your way.
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And so that s how Tom Brady is, too.
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That s how a lot of pro athletes, you know.
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Like, how can I get this thing to this point?
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Or how can I get my revenue to this?
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How can I get to the next level?
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Yeah.
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Whatever that means.
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We always talk about next level.
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What the hell does that mean?
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But we all know what the next level is.
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The next level doesn t necessarily mean more income.
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It might mean the same income with half the hours worked.
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There you go.
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See, that s the thing, right?
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It could be less.
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Could be less.
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Could be less.
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How do I turn my life back?
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I m unhealthy right now.
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How do I get?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I think I did an exercise with this group out in Denver.
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And I said, OK, I want you.
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It was a guided visualization.
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I said, OK, you ve just hired somebody to follow you around for 90 days.
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And this person has been with you at dinner and in the boardroom and the bedroom, has been everywhere with you.
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They ve observed your behavior for 90 days.
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And now you re sitting down with them at the final observation.
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This is where they re going to share with you what they ve seen.
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And the reason we do it that way is because we know exactly when we don t need somebody to follow us around.
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Now, although they did, they probably see it a little, but we kind of know what the, what would be in that report because we have instincts and we know where we re off and we know where we re on.
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And, you know, we don t need somebody to follow us around, but we kind of know what the, what would be in that report because we have instincts and we know where we re off and we know where we re on.
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And, you know, we don t need somebody to follow us around.
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I think that that intuition is powerful, but we have to stop sometimes and say, okay, if I was, if somebody was following me around for 90 days and really observing my behavior, what would they see?
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Well, you know, you know what they d see because you re in it.
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Yeah.
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And I think getting real, uh, and objective about what they would see is part of the trick.
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And the other thing I think people do is they either defend it,
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Oh, well, I do that because I have to, or do this because of this.
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And I think you need to accept it, like just own the fact that they would see me taking a lot of breaks.
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They would see me with call resistance.
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They would see me clam up in a sales call because I feel like I m being too pushy, whatever.
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And you have to say they would also see some really good things.
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They would see me.
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leveraging my LinkedIn stuff or doing, you know, I think sometimes we say what we see our brains go to, what s the negative?
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There s some really good things that I see here.
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And there are some things that I would definitely change.
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That s a great exercise.
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Yeah.
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And you know, you just set us kind of identified something.
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No, none of us are great at everything in the whole business sphere.
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Some of us are a really good goal setter.
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I think you re a really good goal setter.
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I m average.
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I think that you ve got to be good at encounters when you re conducting yourself with people.
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Some people are good at that.
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Some people are good at certain parts of that.
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But I think that you ve got to be good at meeting people.
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You ve got to be good at meeting people.
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You ve got to be good at meeting people.
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So the idea of identifying where do you feel like you drop back and fall back a little bit is not a center of shame.
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It s then I can say to myself, I wonder why I do that.
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I wonder why I m uncomfortable talking about money.
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I wonder why I m uncomfortable sharing the uniqueness of our products.
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Do I sound like I m too pitchy?
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I mean, if you just ask yourself a question, I wonder why that happens.
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The answers will come, and then you can start to remedy and fix and rebuild or reconstruct.
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It s so funny you bring that up because I hadn t talked about the wonder why question for a long time.
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And I just talked about it last week randomly like this.
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I was in some coaching call and I don t know why it popped in my head and now you re talking about it again.
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So there s that.
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There s that.
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There s that.
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Don t you love the woo?
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No, seriously though.
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It s great.
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It s so good.
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Um, you know, I attribute Terry Daniel to give me, give me that a coach that we both worked with and,
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It just puts your brain in this open growth mode, non-shameful, non-blaming, accepting, curiosity, searching.
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It s a really, really, really good question to ask.
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I love the money thing.
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You re in a sales call.
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I wonder why I always get nervous when I
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uh, talk about money.
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I wonder why I always get defensive when they tell me that are priced too highly or whatever.
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And then search on that.
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And then once it s identified, you re like, that s why, that s why.
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Then you can do something about it.
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It could be something as far back as childhood, too.
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I mean, we ve all got scripts that we deal with today.
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But until you stop and ask the I wonder why question, those scripts don t become available, or the knowledge of those scripts don t become available.
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And then we realize, you know what?
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I ve always had that.
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From the time I was 19 years old, I ve always
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felt like, you know, money s kind of a bad time, whatever, whatever you find, you find.
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And, but finding it is 80% of the solving of it.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And then there s a, the next part also I think is really important.
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You just said, which is you do need to work to, to solve it mechanically in some way.
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You can solve it with some therapy too, to make yourself,
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better.
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Let s use the money script.
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So we ve got a hardwired thing from when we re young about money.
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We devalue ourselves, so therefore we don t charge as much as we should.
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OK, there it is.
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I devalue myself.
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I m going to go to a therapist and work on seeing myself in higher value.
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That s one way to do it.
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That s great.
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You can do some more mechanical things, though, too.
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It could be I m going to print out a price sheet, and I m going to serve it up as a menu, and that s the price sheet.
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Versus just talking about it or something like that, you know, I mean I It is because it s on the sheet.
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It s like a menu.
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Well, this is what we offer and this is the price of the steak We re not negotiating.
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This is the That s good.
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Yeah, and I think sometimes people Like I love the deep work also and there s usually something you can find if you re in the searching mode.
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That s that way I had that
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I had a, this is, gosh, eight years ago, 10 years ago, I had a potential speaking gig at an organization in Iowa.
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And I had someone who was working on my behalf as kind of an agent.
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But in this case, this group reached out to me directly.
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I remember exactly where I was sitting, where I was parked.
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I was in a parking lot here in Indianapolis.
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And the woman said, what s your fee?
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And I m like, Oh, this is the woman from the hiring.
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Yeah.
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The hiring.
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Yeah.
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The hiring person at the organization in Iowa.
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I said, Oh, for a full day to come out to, uh, to Iowa and do a keynote speech, uh, 5,000.
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Now at the time I was trying to get my keynote speaking fees, like 10 and 15.
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And I just said, five, she said, Oh, great.
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The board s going to love this.
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Cause we had 25 K in the budget.
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And I m telling you, not because it s me, she would have paid 25 grand.
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And I m like, Oh my gosh, look at me go.
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You know, they re going to love you because it s counting myself 100%.
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And so the lesson there for me was I have to, because I have that, I ll go talk to people for free.
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I just will.
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I ll do sales coaching.
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I just love it.
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So we do this basically for free.
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Yeah, basically.
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Exactly.
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Basically.
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We do it basically.
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But you can put a mechanical thing in there, meaning now I can have someone else deal with all the pricing, so I don t have to worry about my own personal value getting caught.
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That s right.
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That s right.
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It s a mechanical fix.
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Yeah.
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That s good.
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Yeah, no, that s good.
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That s good.
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So one of the topics I also wanted to talk about today was this idea, you are in front of a lot of people and I am too, to probably definitely a limited extent, the numbers and pure numbers.
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And I was wondering what you see right now as we head into kind of the planning for 2024, what do you see as
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the biggest challenge that sales organizations or sales professionals have in the pursuit of new business, in just the growth?
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And it doesn t have to necessarily be face-to-face skill stuff, like, oh, I ve got to get to the higher level inside the company.
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It could be real tactical like that, or it could be bigger, like no sales strategy, or we re terrible planners.
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What do you see as one or two of the biggest issues right now?
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I have one written down, I wrote down as soon as you brought this up, I wrote this down.
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Poor sales leadership, poor sales leadership.
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And the problem is this question that you re posing Bill, I believe is trying to be solved by sales leadership people who need some guidance and coaching and work.
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And that s part of the problem.
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And I see it all over the place.
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Yeah.
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I see sales leaders with a, with a fear of holding people accountable to do things.
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And it s not their fault.
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I don t think we ve set good structure up for sales leadership, coaching, training.
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There s not much of it.
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I know you offer, I offer.
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There s not much of it.
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There s not much at all.
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Mike Weinberg, good friend of the show in St.
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Louis, does a really good job with it.
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But past that, man, there s not much out there.
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So do you think that the sales leader doesn t understand how to do these things?
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Or do you think they have a plan, but it s an old plan and it doesn t work so much anymore, or a variety?
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I would say first answer is mostly A than B. Because there s no, because what happens is, I mean, where do sales leaders come from?
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Salespeople.
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Sales team.
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They do.
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Like there s, I ve not met a couple, but not very many sales leaders don t come from the sales team.
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Occasionally, right?
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CFO switches over to the CRO head.
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That happens occasionally.
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Usually it s that.
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So then you have, and you ve heard the cliche thing, like the great salespeople make bad managers and vice versa, there s all that stuff, but, but there s, there is no how to.
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There is no, how do I lead a team?
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How do I plan?
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How do I hold the group accountable?
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And you see it all the time.
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You see, it s amazing to me.
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We just had a big group of sales leaders, uh, here in town for a big conference.
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And you talk about like basic stuff, like CRM, um, compliance, CRM compliance, every one, there are 50 sales leaders in this room.
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Every one of them has a problem with CRM compliance.
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And I m like, why it s not the sales people s problem.
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It s our problem.
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Cause we let them.
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So I think sales leadership is the biggest cog in that wheel of how to teaching people how to prospect in a modern way.
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Think about the stuff that we do, that we teach, like you, you talk all the time, you need to do a podcast, everybody needs to do a podcast, right?
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You need to do videos.
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The sales leaders don t know how to do that.
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No, they don t.
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They re scared to death.
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They don t want to do that.
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They want to tell everyone else to do it, but they need to do it.
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The sales leader should be the first podcast.
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I ve got a, I ve got a sales leader who just came to that realization, uh, here a couple of weeks ago.
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Cause his team is struggling and they re not in, and he s trying to push them to build their brand.
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And they re in a business where it really matters if the sales people build their brand, have videos, create content.
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Well, he s not doing it.
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And I said, you re, you re not a, and he admitted he was very coachable.
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He said, that s right.
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I m not doing it.
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So how can I explain to them and instruct them exactly how to do it if I ve never had an experience of doing it?
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And you ve got to lead by example is an old cliche.
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When you re trying to change behavior and trying to reinvent your sales team, you have to be right there in the reinvention process.
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And it s ugly, and it s messy, and you re going to fail just like you ve told them, hey, it s OK if you fail.
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Well, you re going to fail, too, the first few times you try these things.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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And there s a concept from a peer group that I used to belong to, our coach gave us.
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called speed of the leader.
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And the pack essentially goes as fast as the leader or the fastest person in the pack.
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So let s do the video thing.
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Not only does the sales leader need to be doing it, they need to be leading the charge, like doing it, like, you guys can t keep up with me.
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Like, let s go.
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That draws the people.
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That s exactly right.
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That s so true.
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And then if the leader says, well, you know, I ve been working on this video, and I know I started in February.
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And I m almost to the point where I can think about maybe setting my camera up.
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Not sure yet.
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Come on.
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I m having some tech issues, Bill.
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A couple tech issues.
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As I say that, as I m like, hodgepodge my studio.
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However, I got it fixed, didn t I?
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You did.
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And I don t, even if you hadn t gotten it fixed, I think you would have said, let s just do it.
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Let s go.
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Let s go.
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It s time.
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It s showtime, brother.
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That s the, that s the difference.
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It s like, well, no, I did.
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I did.
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We didn t record today.
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Cause Brian was having some tech problems.
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I would have popped the AirPods in and you would have been pissed because of the audio quality is bad, but that s okay.
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But I m not, but we got an episode done, right?
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We got an episode.
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So that s, that s a good, um, so sales leadership you think is one of the biggest challenges because a lot of it runs, everything else runs down from there.
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You don t get that one fixed, then the thing s not as optimized as it could be.
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It s interesting because mine is a cousin to that, which is I don t think we spend enough time
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in the effort to realize our potential and our maximizing our talents and our skills and our experience and our success stories and failures and frameworks and all.
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I don t think we really maximize our potential as sales professionals.
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And guess what?
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Guess who s responsible for helping us do that?
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The sales, my sales manager.
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And I ve always said that you sales leaders have one mission.
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It s one mission.
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And that is to
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make your people better.
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It s to improve the output of your people.
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If you improve all the output of your people through helping them to do things like we re talking about, then everything else takes care of itself.
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So that s the only mission you have.
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It s not to look good in front of people.
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It s not to run great sales meetings.
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It s to improve the capacity and the capability and the potential of each of your people.
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And if you do that, all else follows.
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And it makes it simple because now I have to ask myself as a sales leader, when I m looking at my calendar for the week, is anything on this calendar helping me maximize the potential of my people?
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Or is it all just, you know, and recruit, I m not saying that everything has to be there, but that s gotta be the focal point.
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And I think that, so let s say you have a leader who s not doing that.
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It s still up to us.
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It s our life and it s our livelihood to say, where is my potential?
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I think that s the first question is what s possible for me as a sales professional.
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And if you don t ask yourself those questions, then you end up.
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doing the same thing you did in 2020 and 2021 and 22.
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And now we re going to plan for 24.
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We re going to be doing the same exact thing, hoping that there s a breakthrough.
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And there is no breakthrough if there s no maximization of potential that s somewhere on that sheet.
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So good.
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I like the, if you heard, you ve heard people say like, what are your biggest priorities in life?
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And people tend to say faith, family, and then maybe health and financial, right?
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And then they audit their calendar for what they spend their time on.
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And it s usually one hour on Sunday for faith.
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And then if you re a Catholic like me, you re like, Oh, father, Bob s great.
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His masses are only 45 minutes.
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They re awesome.
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In and out.
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I love it out of there and an hour and right in and out.
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We re done.
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Oh, that s great.
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Check it off the list.
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You know, like if that were true, wouldn t you see like 20 hours a week devoted to your faith?
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I mean, I m just throwing this out, you know,
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Um, and then I love this idea that sales leaders, number one job is to maximize the potential of the sales team individually, meaning as individuals, as individuals in your calendar.
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It s awesome.
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And look on your calendar and audit and say, how much time is devoted to that?
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I bet you re going to find almost zero.
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almost zero right now.
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It s a great takeaway for a sales leader.
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Yeah.
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And for sales professionals listening, because I know that s probably 70% of our audience, is you have to also be the, you know, we keep hearing this, you know, you only live once, I only got one life to live, I m gonna make it count.
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And then I ask, well, how many hours a week do you spend in self-development, in self-care?
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And I don t mean like massage therapy, although that might be part of it.
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Fitness could be part of it, but mental care, emotional care.
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How much time do you spend reading, listening to podcasts?
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I mean, our listeners obviously spend at least 18 minutes a week listening to us.
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That s part of it.
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But there s a lot of hours in the week.
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And if you say, yeah, I ve only got one life to live, and I think I have another level of potential, how are you investing those hours to help you get there?
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And most people don t.
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Most people don t.
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I m not insinuating that our listeners don t.
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But generally, you find most people spend very little time working on the brand, the you.
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And so we lie to ourselves, say, well, you know, we re not a,
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You hear this a lot in the media.
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People aren t achieving where they want to be, and people are being laid off.
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OK, being laid off.
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What are you doing for the next chapter?
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And a lot of people, some people are doing something, but most people aren t.
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So I would ask yourself the question as you listen to this today is, what are you doing to work on yourself?
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And it s probably not enough.
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It s probably not enough.
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And I think take an inventory first just to see, just to audit your calendar and audit your behaviors and audit the stuff that you re doing and say, am I doing anything at all?
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And it doesn t mean you need to go spend $40,000 on a personal coach.
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You might, but it could be the littlest thing.
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And think about what s available to me.
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My coach is so good at this.
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He s like, people are so bad at asking for help.
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Just ask for help.
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Just ask people, like, hey, can I grab coffee?
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I want to ask you something about this, or I want to get your perspective or take,
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See if you re open to holding me accountable.
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I don t know.
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People are so helpful if you ask them.
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Absolutely.
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Even people who would normally charge, like I ve answered a lot of questions on LinkedIn and sometimes if it goes back and forth too much, I might say, you know, this is something I would charge a fee for.
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And sometimes they say, okay, great, I ll pay it.
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Or sometimes they say no, but you know, the first, the first effort is usually free.
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I mean, I m not, because I enjoy, like you said, I enjoy helping people to realize this potential.
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But anyway, good topic today.
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If you have any questions on it or any comments, go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn.
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Make sure you remember the group.
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If you are, you can comment on the show.
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And then we d like to hear anything that you heard from this that maybe is some realization and made you aware of something that you re maybe missing.
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Love it.
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All right.
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All right.
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See you next time.
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Bye.
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Bye.