0
SPEAKER_03
In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, a special treat, our friends at Gong give me and Bill a very common sales problem and topic.
0
SPEAKER_03
They ask our opinions and then they, with their stats and data, tell us what reality is with facts.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s Gong and ASP together.
0
SPEAKER_03
Opinions versus reality.
0
SPEAKER_03
Welcome, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
0
SPEAKER_03
My name is Brian Neal.
0
SPEAKER_03
I m Bill Kasky.
0
SPEAKER_03
We re here every week for your listening enjoyment.
0
SPEAKER_03
Glad that you re here.
0
SPEAKER_03
This is a special episode.
0
SPEAKER_03
And those of you who ve been listening to us for a long time, you re used to getting us on Mondays.
0
SPEAKER_03
This is not going to come out on a Monday.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s a bonus episode.
0
SPEAKER_03
Thrilled to death to have two wonderful guests from a wonderful company here that we talk about a lot that I m a huge fan of, I m a user of.
0
SPEAKER_03
We re actually a client of theirs, a company called Gong, the category creative revenue intelligence.
0
SPEAKER_03
And today, we have two of their really, really smart, intelligent people from their marketing group.
0
SPEAKER_03
Devin Reed, head of content at Gong, and Sheena Badani,
0
SPEAKER_03
Category Creator of Revenue Intelligence.
0
SPEAKER_03
Welcome you two.
0
SPEAKER_03
Thrilled you re here.
0
SPEAKER_03
Hey, Devin.
0
SPEAKER_03
Thanks, Brian.
0
SPEAKER_03
Sheena.
0
SPEAKER_03
Hi.
0
SPEAKER_03
Nice to see you.
0
SPEAKER_03
First day of school.
0
SPEAKER_03
Kids are off to school for all of us, and here we are recording a podcast just like that, like nothing ever happens.
0
SPEAKER_00
Here we are.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s beautiful.
0
SPEAKER_03
I love it.
0
SPEAKER_03
Hey, so before we get into the topic today, can you two, Gong s tagline is, goodbye opinions, hello reality.
0
SPEAKER_03
Goodbye opinions, hello reality.
0
SPEAKER_03
Can you tell the listeners of the Advanced Selling Podcast just a little bit more about what that means?
0
SPEAKER_01
If I answer it, I d be taking Sheena s spotlight because she designed the category and it s like her baby.
0
SPEAKER_01
So Sheena, you take it away.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s everyone s now.
0
SPEAKER_00
But really what that means is how can we enable everybody across the organization from sales leaders to a customer success manager to an individual sales rep to
0
SPEAKER_00
really help them understand what s actually happening with their customers, with their prospects.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oftentimes in our businesses, we rely on what somebody said, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
It s all hearsay.
0
SPEAKER_00
A manager will check in with a rep, like, hey, how did that conversation go?
0
SPEAKER_00
Or what s the current status of the deal?
0
SPEAKER_00
Or often it s just an individual manually entering information into the CRM, and that s what we take as the gold standard of what s happening.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so what our co-founders, when they started Gong, and what now Revenue Intelligence is really all about is, how can we shift the way that we re doing business to base that on data, on facts, on true reality, instead of that gut feeling and opinion, what we ve been so used to operating on?
0
SPEAKER_03
You mean I can t say anymore that I m getting buying signals?
0
SPEAKER_03
That s one of Bill and I s favorite, right?
0
SPEAKER_03
Well, we re nodding.
0
SPEAKER_03
Devin was nodding a lot, Bill.
0
SPEAKER_03
It was a great meeting.
0
SPEAKER_03
He was nodding.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s got to be a good deal.
0
SPEAKER_03
That s how we used to do it.
0
SPEAKER_00
You can still say it, but somebody will be able to check, like, are there actually any signals there or not?
0
SPEAKER_03
I think Devin was nodding off.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
When we did the Advanced Learning Podcast intro, Devin s like, oh my god, I ve heard this 1,000 times.
0
SPEAKER_02
Well, yeah, we wanted to bring you guys on and gong on because we want to acquaint our audience with modern strategies and always dive a little bit deeper rather than just give people, here are the words to say if your customer is giving you an objection.
0
SPEAKER_02
Let s get into this and let s really dive deeper into how we can be more effective and more proficient in our salesmanship, saleswomanship, salesmanship.
0
SPEAKER_02
as we go through the process.
0
SPEAKER_02
So that s kind of the context for this.
0
SPEAKER_02
And rather than just reading an ad for you guys, we wanted to bring you on and say, let s really bring value to our listeners.
0
SPEAKER_02
So that s why we re doing this.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I think the structure that we put together for this is kind of a fun one.
0
SPEAKER_03
I think it s fun.
0
SPEAKER_03
Is that we re going to do this thing, opinions and reality, together.
0
SPEAKER_03
pull up a subject.
0
SPEAKER_03
Bill and I are going to give you opinions.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then you two are going to tell us if we re right or wrong with some data.
0
SPEAKER_03
Right?
0
SPEAKER_03
We got some really cool topics.
0
SPEAKER_03
Oh, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
And the fun part is, too, we re going to talk about the opinions for our listeners.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then you re going to give us a little bit of the answer.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then the advanced selling podcast listeners who want the whole answer, want deep dive into the data, which they all should, they can go to your podcast, which is called Reveal the Revenue Intelligence Podcast, Reveal the Revenue Intelligence Podcast, and then get the rest of the story over there.
0
SPEAKER_03
So this is kind of a fun, kind of like a tag team, past the torch, podcast to podcast.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s the way podcasts should work.
0
SPEAKER_03
I love it.
0
SPEAKER_03
Collaboration.
0
SPEAKER_03
We love it.
0
SPEAKER_03
OK, so let s do it.
0
SPEAKER_03
Let s talk about it.
0
SPEAKER_03
What do you guys want to talk about?
0
SPEAKER_03
Let s do it.
0
SPEAKER_03
Opinion topic, we are ready.
0
SPEAKER_01
Anything you want, fire away.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the first one is possibly my favorite article that I ve written, and maybe reader s favorite as well.
0
SPEAKER_01
So really quick background is we have Gong Labs, which is kind of our research team, and then myself.
0
SPEAKER_01
I m the only one without a PhD or two, because it s all these data scientists in Israel, and then myself.
0
SPEAKER_01
And what we do is we comb over all the millions and millions of sales interactions that we capture with Gong s revenue intelligence platform.
0
SPEAKER_01
you know, all the client facing interactions like emails, calls, zoom recording, you know, web conferencing things.
0
SPEAKER_01
And we start to analyze buyer and seller behavior to see what works, what doesn t.
0
SPEAKER_01
And just like you said, you know, we like to publish these to help our readers, our audience be more effective in their, in their sales person ship.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so one of the ones I did early, I think it was
0
SPEAKER_01
early 2020, as you know, I m sitting at my desk and I m like, what s, what s something that we all just assume is true or not true, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, what are the things that we re being told, but like, no one really knows.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, man, I don t know.
0
SPEAKER_01
Wait, wait a second.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s it.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so I m like, you know, cursing in sales has never really been talked about.
0
SPEAKER_01
Right?
0
SPEAKER_01
And so you might hear in HR, you know, are you allowed to curse?
0
SPEAKER_01
You re not allowed to curse?
0
SPEAKER_01
You know, is it professional?
0
SPEAKER_01
Is it not professional?
0
SPEAKER_01
And so I was like, that s what we re going to do.
0
SPEAKER_01
We re going to break down is cursing good, bad, neither in sales.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so before we get into the outcome, I m curious, you know, Bill and Brian, what are your,
0
SPEAKER_01
thoughts on this, what are your opinions?
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if you both curse.
0
SPEAKER_01
Brian, I don t think I ve heard you curse yet, but I don t know.
0
SPEAKER_03
Like a sailor.
0
SPEAKER_03
I do.
0
SPEAKER_03
I m a really bad sailor.
0
SPEAKER_02
Let me take a stab at this and then...
0
SPEAKER_02
You know, it s one of those topics that s so obvious, but the way you ve positioned it tells me that it s not as obvious as it probably should be.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so I would say no.
0
SPEAKER_02
I would say cursing is not, is inappropriate.
0
SPEAKER_02
I m not sure if it helps or hurts or hinders.
0
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
0
SPEAKER_02
I would just say no, but something tells me that when I listened to Gary Vaynerchuk, you know, when I listened to his podcast and all his YouTube and everything s explicit and
0
SPEAKER_02
But he really doesn t curse just to curse.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s just part of who he is.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I feel like we give him a pass at that.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I don t know how that enters into this conversation.
0
SPEAKER_02
But I would say either no or it doesn t make any difference.
0
SPEAKER_03
So this is a great topic, by the way, because
0
SPEAKER_03
I think it s a life topic, too.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then a lot of us that are in sales spend the large percentage of our life in selling.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then it s like, do I do or do I not?
0
SPEAKER_03
And our podcast, now I will talk for myself.
0
SPEAKER_03
I cuss like a sailor.
0
SPEAKER_03
Some of my job on the football field, the F word is kind of the every other word in the football field.
0
SPEAKER_03
When I come home from training camp or a game, I ll have to clean it up at dinner.
0
SPEAKER_03
I usually don t.
0
SPEAKER_03
So I drop a couple F-bombs, the kids all laugh, and boom.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then I kind of judge the room in our sales coaching work to say, OK, do I hear it?
0
SPEAKER_03
Who goes first?
0
SPEAKER_03
That sort of thing.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then I sort of try to adapt to that.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I have clients that I don t cuss at all.
0
SPEAKER_03
I have clients that every other word I say, the F word.
0
SPEAKER_03
When Bill and I did the podcast, we both cuss.
0
SPEAKER_03
And we said, this is great about podcasting.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s so real and raw.
0
SPEAKER_03
We can say whatever we want.
0
SPEAKER_03
Well, we got an explicit rating.
0
SPEAKER_03
on some of our episodes, because we dropped F-bombs.
0
SPEAKER_03
And that s what you get, right?
0
SPEAKER_03
And so we made the conscious decision, let s just, not for any moral reason, let s just not cuss during our podcast, just to avoid the explicit rating, just in case.
0
SPEAKER_03
So we did it.
0
SPEAKER_03
And so in the sales world, I think similarly, I don t think it s the greatest thing to do.
0
SPEAKER_03
Here s where I think it s good.
0
SPEAKER_03
I think it s good because I think it can show authenticity.
0
SPEAKER_03
Because I don t like personally feeling like I m being inauthentic.
0
SPEAKER_03
And if someone, like you just said, Devin, like Brian, I ve never heard you cuss.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I m like, hmm, OK, well, then you ve not seen the authentic me yet.
0
SPEAKER_03
You just hang around here and hear it.
0
SPEAKER_03
Now, whether you know that or not, I m not sure that really matters.
0
SPEAKER_03
So I would also say that it s not the best idea to cuss in the sales process.
0
SPEAKER_03
Those are our opinions.
0
SPEAKER_01
What s the reality?
0
SPEAKER_01
I hope I didn t flag your episodes.
0
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t matter.
0
SPEAKER_01
We can edit you out.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s the best part of this.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
So that s our opinion.
0
SPEAKER_01
What s the reality?
1
SPEAKER_01
I ll give you a snack before we get to the reality part.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you had to guess, now we ran this across a few million sales calls.
1
SPEAKER_01
looking at sellers only, what percentage of sales calls would you say that sellers curse on?
1
SPEAKER_01
And cursing is anything you wouldn t say in front of your grandmother.
1
SPEAKER_01
So you ve got the F-bomb, you ve got SHIT.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m spelling it out now so we don t get flagged.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then there s a handful of other ones that get thrown around.
1
SPEAKER_01
But what would you say is the percentage?
1
SPEAKER_01
Bill, what do you think? 8%.
1
SPEAKER_03
All right, we got eight.
1
SPEAKER_03
I m going to say 32%.
1
SPEAKER_01
All right.
1
SPEAKER_01
Gina, I don t know if you know this.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, do you know this stat?
1
SPEAKER_01
Feel free to guess if you don t already know the answer.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know this stat, actually.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ll go somewhere in the middle.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ll say like 15.
1
SPEAKER_01
All right, so I think if we go by the Price is Right standards, Sheena wins because it s 20%.
1
SPEAKER_01
20% of sales calls, they curse.
1
SPEAKER_01
Now, DAM was on there, so that might have opened it up a little bit.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because I know some places DAM is like, that s nothing.
1
SPEAKER_01
But like you were saying, Bill, it s a societal thing that bleeds into sales and professionalism, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Because you ve got people like, you would never curse a church if you re, you know.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you re a church-going family, you probably think that I m blasphemous and probably already turned me off, and I m sorry about that.
1
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, it happens pretty frequently, 20% every fifth call.
1
SPEAKER_01
That surprises me.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s a high number.
1
SPEAKER_03
And I went high.
1
SPEAKER_03
You went high?
1
SPEAKER_03
Well, the reason I went high is because, and maybe it s just the company I keep, because I look at some of my clients, and then I wonder, you know, I think I might be in some, well, no, I m
1
SPEAKER_03
I mean, I was going to say industrial type industries, and I was just on with one of them this morning.
1
SPEAKER_03
Maybe that s why they retire their construction company, but.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I also feel like salespeople are bad at tempering them.
1
SPEAKER_01
Impulse control.
1
SPEAKER_01
Impulse control, yes.
1
SPEAKER_03
Salespeople are bad at impulse control.
1
SPEAKER_03
It goes out there.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s great.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that s interesting.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, good.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s funny, Bill mentioned Gary V. He made a cameo in The Post because he can t really talk about it without mentioning Gary.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I think, too, it s geography-based, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
At some point, if you ve got the Bible Belt,
1
SPEAKER_01
The Bible Belt s not gonna be as liberal there, but on the coastal cities, if you ve ever sold to New Yorkers, I think they curse at you just as the greeting.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_01
It s pretty standard.
1
SPEAKER_01
We do have data, though, and it shows if it has a positive or negative correlation on outcomes.
1
SPEAKER_01
So if you wanna hear what that is, come join us on Reveal, the Revenue Intelligence Podcast.
1
SPEAKER_01
We ve got a special episode, and we ll let you know what it is.
1
SPEAKER_03
That s good.
1
SPEAKER_03
Can you give us a little, can you give us a hint?
1
SPEAKER_03
for the advanced link podcast listeners that would tease them over there, or even like a little, any correlation, any answer that s not the whole answer?
1
SPEAKER_03
No.
1
SPEAKER_03
That s why you call it a reveal, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
I ll tell you what, it s fairly binary.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s fairly like, it s pretty clear.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s kind of some caveats I like to share when I share the data.
1
SPEAKER_01
But no, the snack was that it happens pretty frequently.
1
SPEAKER_03
And that the answer is binary, which means it s cut and dry whether you should cuss or whether you shouldn t.
1
SPEAKER_03
So advanced selling podcast listeners, if you want to figure out whether or not you can and or should cuss in the sales process, then you ve got to hop over to the Reveal podcast, the Revenue Intelligence podcast, I should say.
1
SPEAKER_03
Reveal, the Revenue Intelligence podcast.
1
SPEAKER_03
Somewhere there.
1
SPEAKER_03
And where do we find that one?
1
SPEAKER_03
Where do people go to listen to that?
1
SPEAKER_01
Anywhere you can find a podcast, we re there.
1
SPEAKER_01
So if you can find Advanced Selling Podcast, punch in Reveal.
1
SPEAKER_01
The Revenue Intelligence Podcast will pop up.
1
SPEAKER_01
We re the first one.
1
SPEAKER_01
Purple image.
1
SPEAKER_01
Can t miss us.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_03
So can I ask you a question back?
1
SPEAKER_03
You may.
1
SPEAKER_03
For fun.
1
SPEAKER_03
Both of you?
1
SPEAKER_03
Mm-hmm.
1
SPEAKER_03
And Sheena, were you in sales, too, at one point in your career?
1
SPEAKER_00
I did business development and partnership work.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I was in the sales realm, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
That s good.
1
SPEAKER_03
Devin, I ll ask you first.
1
SPEAKER_03
Did you cuss when you were selling?
1
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_03
Sheena, did you?
1
SPEAKER_01
But I read the room first.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was mindful.
1
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_03
She needed you.
1
SPEAKER_00
Did I, did I know?
1
SPEAKER_00
I maybe, I maybe would have said damn, but like, I think our team has like a bet, a running bet of like, when is she now going to curse?
1
SPEAKER_03
We know it s like for real.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have, they re like, Oh crap.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think you ve done it twice on meetings, Chena.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I remember like, you know, you re paying attention, but you might like writing something down or kind of in the moment and Chena curses and you like snap to attention.
1
SPEAKER_01
You re like, well, hold on something serious is happening here.
1
SPEAKER_01
Use it strategically.
1
SPEAKER_02
It can really grab attention.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s really, really great.
1
SPEAKER_02
Bill, what about you?
1
SPEAKER_02
So I don t curse until they become a client, then I m like, I let it fly.
1
SPEAKER_02
You let it go.
1
SPEAKER_02
What did we just buy?
1
SPEAKER_02
I kind of feel like, yeah, I just don t do it, but I am a cursor, but it has to be the right scenario.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I think once somebody becomes, and I got to, like Devin said, read the room too.
1
SPEAKER_02
If this is a group of pastors, probably not.
1
SPEAKER_02
So we re going to do this again here in a future episode coming up very soon.
1
SPEAKER_02
We re going to take another question and you re going to ask us, do exactly the same thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
We ll offer opinions.
1
SPEAKER_02
We ll get to the reality.
1
SPEAKER_02
Once again, you can go to reveal the revenue intelligence podcast.
1
SPEAKER_02
Get your answer, get your answer there.
1
SPEAKER_02
And Devin and Sheena will be glad to provide that for you.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I think it s a great podcast.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you even if you re you don t care about this answer, still go and subscribe to their podcast.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, really good.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yep.
1
SPEAKER_03
Tune in for episode next episode of this same sort of deal about opinion versus reality versus reality for this episode.
1
SPEAKER_03
Okay, cool.
1
SPEAKER_03
Thank you all for being on.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thanks, guys.
1
SPEAKER_03
Do it again soon.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
1
SPEAKER_00
Cheers.