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Have you ever wanted to chat with Tony Robbins directly?
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Now you can, and it s as easy as texting him.
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That s right, Tony is part of Community, a new platform that allows you to communicate with him one-on-one.
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All you need to do is send him a text at 561-423-1444.
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That s 561-423-1444.
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Be sure to let him know what you think about this episode and all of the other life-changing content he s making available to you at www.tonyrahmans.com slash resources.
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Welcome to part two of a special edition podcast on coronavirus.
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In this episode, Tony, along with his friend, Dr. Peter Diamandis, the Harvard Medical School trained MD and executive founder of Singularity University, explore the present and future of COVID-19.
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If you haven t heard part one of this special series, be sure to give it a listen as Dr. Bob Hariri joins the conversation to provide additional context and clarification of COVID-19 numbers that we re seeing around the clock in the news.
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In this episode, part two, Tony and Peter speak with Mei-Mei Hu and Lou Ries, co-CEOs of United Biomedical, a company that s now offering an affordable and accurate diagnostic test for COVID-19.
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Their antibody test is different from others, as it can detect not only if you currently have the virus, but it also signals if you ve ever had the virus, which is crucial in determining the true rate of mortality associated with COVID-19, and whether people are immune and therefore able to stop isolating and go back to work.
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Lou and Maymay s team at COVAX is also working on a breakthrough alternative option to a traditional vaccine for coronavirus, and you ll hear them discuss it in the last half of this episode.
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This episode was recorded on Thursday, April 9th.
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Here s Tony.
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Hey everyone, it s Tony Robbins.
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Listen, this is part of our program on understanding what s happening with COVID-19, with coronavirus.
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The whole purpose of this program is to bring you some of the greatest experts in the world to share with you what s really going on versus maybe the hype or the fear that s out there.
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And most importantly, to talk to you about how we can get our handle around this, get people back to work, and what are the solutions short-term and perhaps long-term in terms of vaccines.
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In today s program, we re going to do it together along with my dear friend, Peter Diamandis, my partner.
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Peter, how are you doing?
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I m doing great, Betty.
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I m doing well and excited.
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In part one of this program, we had another dear friend, Dr. Bob Haruri, who s the CEO Chairman of Cellularity.
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And if you haven t seen part one of this program, I encourage you to go.
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It s extraordinarily rich.
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The first part talking about how the numbers are proving this pandemic to be perhaps nowhere near as bad as it was, where the mortality rates are not three, four or five percent.
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And they may be, in some case, the consideration of a bad flu.
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We ll find that out over the days ahead.
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But in addition, Tony and I double clicked with Bob about how
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we can augment our immunity, how natural killer cells and stem cells derived from the placenta may be an incredible tool, not only for the COVID-19 pandemic, but for future ones to come.
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So check that out.
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It s one of hope and optimism.
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And the second half of this program right now is for the other parts of what we should be thinking about.
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How do we diagnose this?
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And once it s diagnosed, how do we get vaccines in place and
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We ve got two incredible co-CEOs, co-founders of a company called Unite Biomedical and COVAX.
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Lou Reese and Mei-Mei Hu are the co-founders and co-CEOs of United Neuroscience.
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As you ll hear, it s a 30-year-old company, one of the leading companies on the planet, both in diagnostics and vaccines.
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And of a new company, I m proud to be a board member, full disclosure of, called COVAX, which has taken all of the assets from United Biomedical that are around the coronavirus and put it into this U.S.-based company.
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Mei-Mei, a Harvard Law Graduate, Lou, a many times over entrepreneur and one of the top thinkers that I know in disruptive thinking.
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They have become dear friends and they re on a mission.
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And Tony, this is a mission that you and I love, which is how do you demonetize and democratize these treatments?
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So we don t have, these things are available to everyone around the world, not at thousands of dollars or hundreds of dollars, but potentially, you know, single digit dollars to treat people and protect people.
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And that sounds like huge claims, but maybe what we could start with, Maymay, is tell us a little bit about, you know, United Biomedical and your 30-year history and the volume in which you guys have produced vaccines and the impact that it s had so that people know this is not some quick little startup with some people who have pie in the sky.
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You guys have produced pretty amazing results.
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Can you give us a little history?
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Yeah, sure, Tony.
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So United Biomedical is probably one of the oldest biotech companies that you ve never heard of.
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It s been around for over 30 years.
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We ve been privately held, and we re still privately held.
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And we got our start, actually, in diagnostics.
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So our chief scientific officer and founder, Chang Yi, actually developed and commercialized the first ever peptide-based diagnostic.
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That was for HIV, HCV,
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She s created a number since.
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And we developed and manufactured and then distributed through worldwide partners for the last over 20 years.
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So it s not new to us.
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And then these have sold tens of millions.
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They ve been sold to governments to help clean their blood banks, their blood supplies.
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And so it s something that we have good experience in.
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And in fact, a large part of our company is actually in Taiwan and China.
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So we were one of the first people to respond to the SARS epidemic almost 20 years ago.
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And it was that kind of experience that gave us a head start when COVID-19 came down.
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And so when we saw it again, we knew that we could do something.
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And so we decided to jump in.
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In terms of the vaccine platform,
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We also developed the first ever fully synthetic peptide vaccine, and it s been commercialized against an infectious disease in animals.
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So we now vaccinate about 25% of the world s pigs, which is about 500 million doses a year, or now almost 5 billion doses sold worldwide.
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So we know how to scale up.
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It s a very accessible platform.
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And we basically put those tools and are now turning it to COVID-19.
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So Lou, maybe you can share with us, what s the strategy that s different around the testing?
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We all know to get back to work, one of the biggest challenges with the swab test or the PCR test, I guess it is, is this idea that you re swabbing and you re only discovering whether or not the virus is in you right now versus an antibody test.
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where we can see whether you ve been exposed and whether you ve built antibodies that could actually say that you can go back out in the world because your immune system can handle it.
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Tell us the differences in the test, the differences in the accuracy, and there s a couple antibody tests that have been mentioned recently.
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Some have been said the government s not supporting.
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I understand you guys got FDA approval.
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Give us a sense of the difference in the test and what you re trying to accomplish first with the testing as a whole.
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Yeah, so the idea here is that if you can actually find out if people have durable antibodies, they can safely go back to work.
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And if you can find out how many people are exposed, you can find out the true rate of morbidity and mortality associated with COVID-19.
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So our test is an IgG specific, and I don t mean to get in the weeds, IgG specific antibody test.
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And the difference between ours and the other ones to be simple and direct about it is accuracy, right?
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So when you go after both IgM and IgG antibodies, you might be able to detect a couple days earlier, but you re loaded with false positives because you detect people that have any other type of coronavirus or certain rhinoviruses, autoimmune disorders, anything like that can flare up the test.
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And that s why you see these very large number of false positives.
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So what we need is we need information that s highly specific and accurate.
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and therefore actionable.
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And that s what we do with our test.
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What makes the PCR test so weak?
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Explain to us why that test is inferior to an antibody test, just so that the layman can understand the importance of this.
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So I think, Tony, you said it really well a minute ago.
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You cannot have the antibody test and see if you ve been exposed in the past.
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You can only see if you re actively carrying the virus right then.
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And it s detecting viral DNA, like the actual virus in your nose or in your throat.
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And, and so that s, it s a very, it s a very different type of test.
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So, so you never, it wouldn t be able to tell you if you, if you have immunity and you can get back to work.
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Yeah, I was going to say, first of all, important to note that, you know, there is a version of a coronavirus that is causing the COVID-19 pandemic, right?
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The coronavirus has been around for a long time.
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It s the virus that causes the common cold.
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It s the particular variation
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of this SARS-CoV-2 that is causing this pandemic.
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And so you can t confuse the two.
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Maymay, you re in the labs right now of COVAX.
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Again, COVAX is the company that was spun out of United Biomedical.
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It holds all of the assets in both the testing and the vaccines.
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Can you go a little bit into the science of what the diagnostics, what is an antibody test, a little bit more detail, versus a PCR?
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Yeah, sure.
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So I think Lou did a nice job where, you know, PCRs, there s a good use for them, right?
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And at the end of the day, you know, when we re fighting in this, you need lots of tools in the toolbox.
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And so the PCR has its own benefits.
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It can detect, you know, who has an active infection in that moment and who needs medical treatment immediately.
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and who needs to be quarantined.
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What an antibody test does is it actually, whenever your body is exposed to a virus, it starts fighting it off and it generates antibodies against it to neutralize it.
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So what our antibody test does is actually just detects those antibodies against SARS-CoV-2.
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There are a couple different types of antibodies.
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One is the first wave called IgM.
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And then there s a second wave called IgG, which are these longer lasting antibodies that last for months and months after you re initially exposed.
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And those are the ones where if you re re-exposed, they help quell the virus so that it s either milder or you don t even feel it, hence immunity.
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So what our test is, is you ll see and probably read about lots of antibody tests on the market.
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And there are kind of a couple different types.
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One are these rapid tests.
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They look like home pregnancy tests kind of thing.
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And you pop the little prick of blood in them.
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And, you know, they have their use too.
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They re probably convenient.
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They seem convenient.
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They could be used at point of care.
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But like Lou said, these are less accurate.
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And as a result, you know, they re less useful for really studying the disease on a mass scale.
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How much, how much less accurate, what are the numbers being discussed out there with the false positives and false negative rates?
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You know, when you look at the sensitivity and specificity, it s usually between 80 and 90%.
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Um, and it doesn t seem like much, but when you re testing millions and millions of people, that s a lot of numbers of people.
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Uh, and so when you actually do a seroprevalence study, you know, if you had, let s say you can essentially with that type of disparity, you can be off by a factor of three, which,
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In some ways, if you re making public health decisions, it s difficult.
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The other thing with those tests is they re difficult to deploy and centralize.
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A lot of times, because of the accuracy and that difficulty, they actually have to be confirmed with lab tests.
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So our test is a very basic ELISA test.
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It s old technology, but very cool reagents.
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And what makes us kind of different is the type of reagents we use to make it more accurate and specific.
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So we can absolutely differentiate between
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you know, SARS-CoV-2, COVID-19, and other naturally circulating coronaviruses in the U.S.
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We re also very high throughput.
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So I have this plate here, but it s basically like a simple 96-well plate.
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So each one is like a specimen, and these can be put into a machine and automatically run.
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So you re talking about, you know, 96 tests in about two to three hours.
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Oh, sorry, I was just going to say that there s machines that can run eight or 10 of those at a time.
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So that means in a two hour period of time, you re running through literally thousands of the individual tests.
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And Eliza is a platform that already exists around the world.
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So it makes them deployable in a faster, greater tempo, correct?
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Exactly.
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I mean, we have the capacity to run millions and millions of tests worldwide a day based on the labs that already have basic ELISA capabilities.
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So it s a very high throughput, highly scalable test and, you know, it should be used for mass screening.
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What s the price point that COVAX is going to be providing these tests to folks for?
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So, you know, it s definitely cheaper than the PCR and other rapid tests, depending on scales between, you know, $5 and $21.
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Now, you re doing these tests, I know, and you both live in Telluride.
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Obviously, your facility is in New Jersey, the medical facilities and so forth.
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you decided to do a test that was going to be open to the community there.
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And part of the challenge, Robin, with these numbers, you know, the original numbers coming out of Wuhan were three and a half, four and a half percent.
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Some people are projecting 5%.
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And, you know, we closed the entire world based upon this understanding of a pandemic.
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And it was not just that it was spreading rapidly, but what was really happening was we thought people were dying in mass.
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Now you see it on the news.
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You watch the news every day.
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You think it was, you know, the end of the world.
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When in reality, you know, there are 650,000 people that die of the flu every year.
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And as you probably know, they no longer require since February that you actually even do a test to say they died of COVID-19.
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So some of it is just speculation, whereas earlier they were much more rigid.
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You guys want to find a test because as we test more people and you find more people who have the virus, but there s no symptoms whatsoever or mild symptoms, it changes the morbidity level, which changes whether or not we should be shutting down the whole world or economy.
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You wanted to show that.
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What have you learned so far?
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I know I think you re halfway through the test.
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You re about a week through it.
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Tell us what the test is about, what you re trying to find out, what you know so far, and what you hope to know in about a week.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So this is the first time in, as far as we know, in the history of the world where there s been an antibody test offered to every resident in the county.
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And the results and the outpouring of support from the community have really been overwhelming.
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And we ended up with north of 70% of people participating.
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And the idea is that by testing at the beginning, just like you said, you find out how prevalent it is.
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And you find out if there are maybe more people that were asymptomatic than you expected, and that should have a huge ability to reduce fear.
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And it s a very optimistic time.
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So that s good.
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The next thing that you get is two weeks later, which is now about, you do another round of testing.
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That next round of testing will show if someone went from negative to positive.
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That s called seroconverting.
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It means that they develop the antibodies during that interim period.
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And that s extremely valuable information because it shows what the rate of spread was and if it s been contained through the stay-at-home order.
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And also, it allows us to then take those people that did seroconvert, do a PCR swab, find out if they re actively infectious and isolate them.
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And the whole town can basically get back to its new normal because you ve really cleaned the population of the town and found out who has immunity and who hasn t been exposed.
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What s interesting, though, is there s some material that came out to a great deal of analysis about those cities and states that did the shutdowns faster, which should have protected them more, versus later on, and then places where they ve done none of that.
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And so when you say, seeing if the social isolation worked, we don t know what works.
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The body itself could be doing this, the body on its own, regardless of isolation.
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Isn t that true?
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Well, I mean, I think this is the only way we ll know is if we, with the testing, you know, and I think it s really important.
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I think that s why what the work is so important and the antibody tests are so important is because you get real actionable data to fill in those gaps.
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And I think that with that, you know, the leaders of our country and these communities can make informed decisions and the companies can make informed decisions about getting back to work and kind of getting rid of the fear and getting back to work.
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There s a lot of in the media discussion of young people could be carrying the virus and they could then infect other people.
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And so we ve seen all of these distancing elements, especially for the elderly based upon this.
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And yet I ve talked to other virologists and they re saying, listen, if your body actually has the virus and your body builds antibodies and defeats it, it does not pass it on.
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That s a part of the law of urology.
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So I m confused because I m hearing some doctors on television talking about one aspect and others talking about another.
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Doesn t your test, won t it show that if you ve built the antibodies then that you re in a position where you re not going to be a person that s going to pass it on?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So once you have these IgG antibodies, based on the studies that have been done thus far with the virus, you are in the clear, right?
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You should get a cookie.
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It s like you made it through and everything s great and it s time to move along.
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I think the people that, just to be safe,
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the double testing, the people that convert during that interim, I think that checking their family with the PCR and social isolation for that group that could be currently infectious is important.
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But the idea is, you know, the 14 day period is sufficient that you re no longer actively infectious.
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So if you re not actively infectious and you ve built the antibodies, you re no risk to anyone else.
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Is that correct?
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Yeah, I think there are a couple things that we re doing.
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And what you said is absolutely right.
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So basically, if you ve developed antibodies, I mean, what we re trying to do is separate into three different groups very quickly.
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One is, hey, you ve been exposed to it.
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You re no longer infectious.
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You have antibodies.
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Get back to work.
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Good for you, like Lou said, you deserve a sticker.
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Then there s a second group, which is going to be the folks that don t have any antibodies, have never been exposed, and they re clean.
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So they re not infectious to others, so they re not in danger to others.
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Now they have to know that they re still susceptible to catching it, so they have to take their own precautions.
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But go back to the new normal.
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And then what you do is you isolate the people that
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are seroconverting or that may need to be tested with PCR to see if they re actively infectious.
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And if they are, then quarantine them.
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So what you ve done is you ve isolated the people that need to as opposed to isolate everyone and let the rest of society kind of get back to a new normal.
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Now, one interesting thing that we ve seen in San Miguel County is
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Right now, I think we have about eight PCR positive, positively swabbed confirmed cases in that county.
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It s a county of about 8,000, so that s about 0.1%.
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What we ve already seen in the antibody test, even though we haven t finished, is at least 1% with confirmed antibodies around there, and another 2% that look like they re high borderlines that may seroconvert.
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So, you can already think about the ratio between what is confirmed via PCR, what we think is in the county, versus maybe it s a higher prevalence than we anticipate.
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And so, it s actually around us much more than we expect.
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So is it just, I m really curious.
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Isn t it possible that this virus has been around a lot longer than the last three months?
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I mean, I was reading an article I pointed out the other day that said, so where does SARS go?
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And it was written six years ago.
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They talked about it s a coronavirus.
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Many things are.
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This is one bridge ago, but this is six years ago.
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And they said at least two thirds of the population will have this virus in their body.
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The vast majority will never even know it.
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Their body will handle it.
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Some might feel mild flu-like symptoms and some will have extreme symptoms.
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I mean, it s like six years ago.
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this was written, isn t it possible that this virus is around us and the vast majority of people don t have any impact?
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It certainly seems that way from the testing we re seeing so far when we get to people that are asymptomatic.
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Yeah, I think that s definitely a possibility.
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And actually, I don t know enough to talk about it, but it does seem, and I ve heard lots of reports and seen lots of studies, that it has been around from beginning, definitely before the New Year.
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You know, and there s actually a question as to its origination and the fact that it was probably even circulating and just confused for the flu in many instances.
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The truth of the matter is that something that might be like, you know, people have cancer cells in their body right now.
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You can swab the back of somebody s throat and you can find they got streptococcus, they don t have strep.
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It s an immunal situation, really, more than anything else, because that s who s really dying in this case, whether they have it or not.
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The hospitalizations, not the case numbers, but the hospitalizations and then the deaths are the things that really matter to our society the most.
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And it seems to be an infinitely small number and getting smaller as we test more people, which should give people a little bit more hope.
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You know, I mean, I think that s really what it s about.
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I think the information is going to make is give people a tremendous amount of hope and a tremendous amount of empowerment.
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You know, I m a believer that people are are extremely capable and extremely smart, but they can t make good decisions with bad information.
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So I think that the testing is critical.
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It allows us to know, you know, and really evaluate this accurately and understand what the risk level is.
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And like you mentioned, it s really about getting a handle on what real math is.
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Like, what s real science, the real math?
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What s the real morbidity?
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And the only way we re going to know that is by testing.
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And when we test, what we re going to find out, like Maymay implied in the county and like we re going to see around the country, is that these rates are probably going to be higher than we think.
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and the morbidity associated would probably be lower.
2
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And that doesn t detract from the need for a vaccine to help immunocompromised people and other people that would be subjected to the illness.
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But I think it s really about getting people information.
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So how do you plan to get the tests out?
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You re doing this initial study in Telluride.
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You re going to do the follow-up starting tomorrow, it sounds like.
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You ll be on your two-week marker, so you ll have a sense of what s happened.
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SPEAKER_01
What happens at the end of this?
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How do you get this out?
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I know you re working through the government.
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Are you going to put this through?
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Is a test going to be available through doctors?
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Is it available through Amazon?
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How does this come to be?
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SPEAKER_00
So right now, we have a facility out in Long Island, New York, and we re producing about 100,000 tests a week.
2
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We re actually ramping up to a million a week next month, and we re hoping to bring actually on some additional sites to get our capacity up to one million a day.
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And what we re doing is actually working with lab partners to help be able to actually process that many tests as well.
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SPEAKER_00
So, you know, in terms of customers,
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In user interfaces, there s a whole slew of them.
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The good news is that people recognize the need for testing and want to do it.
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There are big corporations that want to keep their employees safe and know that they can safely go back to work.
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I think one of the top priorities that we re working with are large hospital systems, people who have essential workers.
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particularly healthcare workers, right, that are exposed day and day and day into COVID-19, and they want to know, do I have the antibodies?
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SPEAKER_00
Can I get back to work?
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SPEAKER_00
You know, if you have your front line, like police officers, firefighters, if you have these guys go down, there s going to be so much more damage to our society than just the disease.
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So those are the folks that we re prioritizing that, you know, of course, we want to test outbreak areas.
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such as New York City, New York State.
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Then afterwards, it s really just population.
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We have types of orders where it s, hey, I want to test 30,000 people a day for the next six months.
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They just want to get through them and see, okay, who s been exposed?
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Who s got the antibodies?
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Who s safe to go back to work?
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It s a pretty systematic methodical process.
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If somebody owns a company, Maymay, if somebody owns a company, like, you know, I ve introduced some, you know, Salesforce and some people of that nature to you who are going to test or maybe Time Magazine, you know, they re investigating testing.
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So I m trying to make those introductions.
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But if someone watching owns a company or if they re just an individual and they want to get tested, what s their best bet?
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How do they go about finding out how they can get this done?
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SPEAKER_01
Because they re going to hear about this and say, this makes sense to me.
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SPEAKER_01
I want to know if I ve been exposed.
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SPEAKER_01
I don t know if I got anybody so I m healthy.
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My body s doing great.
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I can let go and I can move forward.
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SPEAKER_01
If I owned a company, small or big, or if I m an individual, how would they go about getting access to this now or in the near future?
2
SPEAKER_00
So if you re a company, definitely come talk to us because we re actually working with a number of companies to put together a package where we help essentially provide the testing and match up the processing capabilities.
2
SPEAKER_00
And depending on the size, we have companies of all different sizes, including some top Fortune 500 companies that are interested in keeping their employees.
2
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safely going.
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SPEAKER_00
And if you re an individual, oftentimes it s easier through a clinical network.
2
SPEAKER_00
So what we re trying to do is actually establish large networks of doctors that will be offering this test in their clinics.
2
SPEAKER_01
How will they know it s your test versus another antibody test?
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SPEAKER_01
What will it be known under the name?
2
SPEAKER_01
Are we under the name of COVAX test or what would it be under?
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a COVAX test.
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SPEAKER_00
So they should just ask for the COVAX test.
2
SPEAKER_02
And let me just add, if I could, the website is covaxx.com.
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And if you re a company, right now, the minimum size order, I believe, Lou and Maymay, and Lou, you can double click on this if you want, because this really is not for individuals.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s for provider networks and companies and governments, because you re dealing with national governments and governors.
2
SPEAKER_02
Can you talk a little bit about that, Lou, maybe?
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
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So because of the, I mean, the goal here is to have the biggest impact and get people back to the new normal as quickly as possible and get the economy like up and running and people, you know, not afraid.
2
SPEAKER_03
And so, and so one of the keys there, and like Maymay touched on earlier really well, I think actually is, you know, this is about if you can test first responders, if you can test the thousands of police officers in Detroit and in New York and in LA that are not
3
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not on the streets because they don t have actionable information, then you really go a long way in solving the problem and getting those people back to work and getting things moving.
3
SPEAKER_03
Same thing on the company level.
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Peter, as you were mentioning, we are trying to target these larger orders because of that for obvious reasons.
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And I think that that s been really productive.
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And I think that it s about
3
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The average is about 9,200.
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It s about 100 plates.
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And that s where we re trying to focus on orders that size and bigger and focus on communities and states and large companies.
3
SPEAKER_03
Start there.
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So a person could go to their company, if it s a large company, or to their local mayor, governor, whoever, and say, we really want to do this and try to push this moving forward while you re continuing to penetrate all the governments throughout the United States and obviously other parts of the world.
3
SPEAKER_02
Is that the fundamental way people can act on this?
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
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Absolutely.
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Then they go to the website and get the information and share it with those decision makers so they can get exposed to the effectiveness compared to any other form of testing.
3
SPEAKER_02
Let s talk about the vaccine if we can then because this is really exciting.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s one thing to get the test and obviously majority of people are having mild to no symptoms at all.
3
SPEAKER_02
We re hearing about the worst case scenarios.
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SPEAKER_02
We ve heard projections through the roof that are turning out to be inaccurate.
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People rushed to hospitals out of their fear.
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They had a cough or a fever.
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It overwhelmed our hospitals but
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We just had Dr. Babarari on from New York, and he talked about 90% of those people were sent home, that they didn t have anything actionable.
3
SPEAKER_02
It was just the fear they got from the media.
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SPEAKER_02
But there are people that are going to need some form of protection or some form of healing.
3
SPEAKER_02
And traditional vaccines, as I understand it, you ve got to use a form of the virus itself.
3
SPEAKER_02
You guys have a different approach, and it s a platform you ve proven before.
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SPEAKER_02
Tell us a little about the vaccine.
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SPEAKER_02
What would make it superior?
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SPEAKER_02
And what s the timing, which I know is the question everybody has in mind?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so we ve developed our vaccine platform for over 20 years.
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SPEAKER_01
The traditional way of a vaccine, just like you were saying, Tony, is you basically take the virus, you beat it up or you kill it, and then you reintroduce it to a body to train your body to recognize it so that when it actually sees it, it, you know,
3
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develops antibodies.
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What we do is we never touch the actual virus.
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So we do a synthetic version.
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So we make with a bunch of, you know, synthetic peptides and we mimic what a virus looks like.
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SPEAKER_02
Like the resonance of it.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, we basically choose a part of the virus that we want to attack, and we kind of mimic the biology with chemicals, synthetic peptides, and then we attach it to our platform technology, and we use that and inject that into people, and we kind of trick the body into thinking that it is a real virus, so it trains it to develop antibodies and this long-term memory, and that s basically the immunity that we generate.
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We ve shown it in pigs.
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It s kind of a funny thing, but they get a lot of infections.
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And there s some really virulent diseases that kill swine.
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And so we ve been able to protect pigs from lots of infectious diseases.
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and very virulent ones.
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And one other thing with that is they have mutations as well.
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So one of the best parts of our technology is once we get the sequence of a virus, we can really rapidly change it.
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And because we re a chemical process, we can scale up very quickly.
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SPEAKER_01
So when these swine, you know, when a swine infectious disease kind of mutated, we took that and we, within, you know, two months had over a hundred million doses back on the market to treat and protect them.
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SPEAKER_02
And you ve done about 5 billion pigs, is that right?
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SPEAKER_02
Did I hear that number?
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SPEAKER_02
Is that accurate?
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we vaccinated almost 5 billion pigs.
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SPEAKER_01
So we can do it at scale.
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SPEAKER_01
We can do it at scale.
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SPEAKER_01
Um, you know, right now we sell for, you know, uh, just under a dollar a dose and make.
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SPEAKER_02
And what would a traditional vaccine?
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SPEAKER_02
So people have a reality check of the difference in price and why this is so valuable to get to a mass audience.
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SPEAKER_02
What s the difference in pricing?
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SPEAKER_02
Can you clarify why is this safer?
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SPEAKER_02
And because of that, what s the timing on a vaccine like this from your perspective?
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SPEAKER_01
So in terms of price, right now we manufacture over 500 million doses a year.
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SPEAKER_01
for animal health indications.
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SPEAKER_01
We sell them for less than a dollar a dose and still have very healthy margins.
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SPEAKER_01
It s super scalable.
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I think one of the biggest advantages is our ability to actually produce that many vaccines.
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SPEAKER_01
You might see in the papers a lot of people are basically investing in production capability now because they re afraid that
3
SPEAKER_01
You may have something that works, but can you scale?
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SPEAKER_01
And at the end of the day, it really only matters if you can scale to the masses.
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SPEAKER_01
And that s how you develop and that s how vaccines have worked in the past.
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SPEAKER_01
In terms of timing, one of the hallmarks of our vaccine is its safety profile.
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SPEAKER_01
So the reason why we took over such a large market share
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in swine vaccines was because we were not only efficacious, but unbelievably safe.
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We ve brought our platform into humans.
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SPEAKER_01
We ve done four clinical trials and other indications, and we re actually heading into phase three for another program.
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SPEAKER_01
And safety is a hallmark of ours.
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SPEAKER_01
So what we re looking to do is we re finishing animal testing right now, and we re targeting to get this vaccine into human trials this summer.
3
SPEAKER_01
So pretty quick.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let me slow this down one second for everybody, because you said a few very important things.
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Number one, this platform that your sister company, Vaccinity, has created, COVAX is using that same platform.
3
SPEAKER_00
So this platform has been in humans before.
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And so you expect that it will be safe in humans once again.
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SPEAKER_00
And we re talking about one of the
3
SPEAKER_00
One of the reasons that a traditional vaccine, we ve been hearing about vaccines from the FDA and on the news, could take 18 months is because you re worried about the unintended consequences.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you give 100 million Americans or billions of people around the world a vaccine, are you causing something
3
SPEAKER_00
that you didn t expect.
3
SPEAKER_00
And we have companies like Moderna right now, which is a completely different approach to an RNA-based vaccine, which has never been done before.
3
SPEAKER_00
But you ve done this for hundreds, maybe thousands of patients in this platform already, and you had zero downside.
3
SPEAKER_00
Just make sure.
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SPEAKER_00
as far.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
So listen, I actually root for everyone in this.
3
SPEAKER_01
So if someone else s vaccine works, that s great.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because frankly, this is a human crisis, right?
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SPEAKER_01
And so whoever can help, this is a big ecosystem and we re just a part of it.
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SPEAKER_01
I think one of the
3
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differentiators of ours is that we ve actually commercialized off of our platform.
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SPEAKER_01
So we know how to scale up, and we know how to manufacture, and that s something that s not easy, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
In terms of being safe, yeah, we ve been safe in lots and lots of people over three years of, you know, repeat dosing.
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SPEAKER_01
So
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you know, we haven t had much side effects.
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SPEAKER_01
And so at the very least, we understand our platform is safe.
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SPEAKER_01
And we ve had experience, in fact, in coronaviruses, because we developed a vaccine antibody test against SARS.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, thankfully, SARS never came back.
3
SPEAKER_01
So those were never, you know, pushed forward.
3
SPEAKER_01
But we have experience in doing this.
3
SPEAKER_02
If you re testing in the summer, what s the reality in terms of when a vaccine might be made available under the accelerated FDA approach?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so this is unprecedented times, Tony.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think, you know, the FDA was unprecedented in their guidance for antibody tests.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so they allow us to move forward even pre-EUA.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so with vaccines, it s also unprecedented.
3
SPEAKER_01
Traditionally, like Tony Fauci says, it s going to be 12 to 18 months, likely.
3
SPEAKER_01
But right now, if you re safe and you can show that you re safe, there may be an accelerated pathway where basically so long as you show that you have neutralizing antibodies that neutralize that virus, it could be to the masses by the beginning of next year, so six months.
3
SPEAKER_02
So it s a potential because, you know, the fear that people have, and again, the numbers are very different than what we re promoted, but still the fear is, Tony Fauci talks about this coming back seasonally again, and people, you know, without realizing, without tests, without knowing real morbidities, we d overreact again.
3
SPEAKER_02
Now, hopefully, we get the testing that gives us the real numbers.
3
SPEAKER_02
We re already starting to see the real numbers are sometimes 1,000th of what s being promoted or believed in.
3
SPEAKER_02
But if we got a vaccine as well, it s a different game.
3
SPEAKER_02
So perhaps, are you saying perhaps this could be done in time for the next season?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think that s what everyone s going for.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think that it ll definitely, you know, that I think is what society is aiming for.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think we have all the pieces together to make that happen.
3
SPEAKER_03
That s really encouraging.
3
SPEAKER_03
So I got to jump in just because I can.
4
SPEAKER_04
help it.
4
SPEAKER_04
The answer is that there are unprecedented times and the FDA absolutely has the ability to make this happen as fast as possible.
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We re in the process of drafting our protocol for our IND submission with them.
4
SPEAKER_04
This is the vaccine right here.
4
SPEAKER_04
So it s not like far away.
4
SPEAKER_04
It s in my hand.
4
SPEAKER_04
It s something that we can do now.
4
SPEAKER_04
So the question isn t like, you know, how long do we and I could make 100 million of these in a month if they said go.
4
SPEAKER_04
So what we need is we need to, that s where the vision needs to be in terms of how we do this.
4
SPEAKER_04
And we need to seize the moment and the opportunity to really solve the problem.
4
SPEAKER_02
And so this summer you ll start to have human trials.
4
SPEAKER_02
How big will the human trial be, if I ask?
4
SPEAKER_01
A few hundred people, a few hundred healthy volunteers.
4
SPEAKER_03
And guys, this has been in animal testing thus far.
4
SPEAKER_03
And in animals, it s been producing great sizable responses.
4
SPEAKER_03
Tigers, you ve been generating antibodies in these animals.
4
SPEAKER_03
You can measure that.
4
SPEAKER_03
You ve actually, if I remember correctly, you tried something like a couple of dozen different approaches have been narrowing it down to the most effective vaccine.
4
SPEAKER_03
Is that correct?
4
SPEAKER_01
We started with a couple dozen vaccines and we wanted to make sure that we get the highest titers, so the highest response from the immune system and that those antibodies target where we want.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re down to our favorites.
4
SPEAKER_02
This is so encouraging, both at getting to some real numbers so we re not operating out of fear or overreacting to things that affect everybody health-wise, the economy and so forth, and really excited to hear you guys are working on a solution whose base appears to be very safe and perhaps can be acted on very, very rapidly.
4
SPEAKER_02
What else do you want the public to know about either the testing or the vaccines or the issue at hand, as well as how some of this platform you ve developed can affect or impact other diseases, because you certainly have worked in those areas over the last 30 years as well.
4
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, so I mean, if we weren t here talking about diagnostics and vaccines for COVID, I d be telling you that, you know, we should have been meeting with the FDA to get their blessing and guidance on our registrational trial and our final trial for an Alzheimer s vaccine.
4
SPEAKER_04
So we have an Alzheimer s vaccine.
4
SPEAKER_04
We have a universal cholesterol vaccine, which is against PCSK9.
4
SPEAKER_04
We ve got Parkinson s vaccines that have just finished or are finishing their phase one trial.
4
SPEAKER_04
So these are things that are disruptive for the world and have an opportunity to really combat chronic illness in a cost effective way and a disruptive way.
4
SPEAKER_04
And we re doing our best here to fight the fight and democratize and demonetize
4
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health as best as we can.
4
SPEAKER_04
And I think we have a really powerful platform and it s been displayed and saved millions and millions and billions of pigs lives.
4
SPEAKER_04
And it s now been helping hundreds of people and I can t wait to roll it out and be able to help billions of people.
4
SPEAKER_03
Lou and Mamie are extraordinary entrepreneurs who have really just created a vision of where they want to go and
4
SPEAKER_03
making that vision into reality.
4
SPEAKER_03
Neither of them are physicians or classical scientists by background.
4
SPEAKER_03
They have an incredible science team behind them.
4
SPEAKER_03
But let me just ask, what s been able to make you both so successful?
4
SPEAKER_03
Because you re not traditional in any way, shape, or form.
4
SPEAKER_03
If I called you traditional, you d probably hate me for it.
4
SPEAKER_03
So what you re doing is
4
SPEAKER_03
massively outside the norm.
4
SPEAKER_03
Could you take a moment and just share some mentorship?
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, I think it s hard to talk about myself, but I think you just have to care, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
You have to care and really believe in what you re doing, because it s not easy to do what we re trying to do, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
It takes a lot of work and a lot of effort and a lot of teamwork.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so you really have to find something that you re passionate about and that you think makes a difference.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, Lou and we re married, taught me how to see bigger than just around me, right?
4
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And our family.
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So it s like, this is a chance to save many, many lives to make an impact way beyond yourself.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think if you have that,
4
SPEAKER_01
greater purpose.
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SPEAKER_01
Um, you dedicate more of yourself and you don t give up until you get it done.
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SPEAKER_01
Um, so that s kind of just where we come from and we ll do whatever it takes to get it done and help people.
4
SPEAKER_01
And you know, there s lots of sacrifices that are made, you know, our kids sacrifice or friends.
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SPEAKER_01
It s, but, uh, if you have that greater purpose, um, you have a higher chance of getting there.
4
SPEAKER_03
Beautiful.
4
SPEAKER_02
And your mom is, uh, is have to be an influence on your mom and dad together, I guess, started the company 30 years ago.
4
SPEAKER_02
Tell us the breakthroughs that brought her forward, just so we get a sense of the history before I wrap up.
4
SPEAKER_02
Cause it s, it sounds like it, uh, the apple doesn t fall far from the tree.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
So, so my mother is the chief scientific officer and, um, you know, she was the first, uh, Asian woman ever to be accepted to Rockefeller university.
4
SPEAKER_01
She came over.
4
SPEAKER_01
And she basically never took no for an answer.
4
SPEAKER_01
If someone said it was impossible, she said, why is it impossible?
4
SPEAKER_01
And she s the hardest working person and never is dissuaded.
4
SPEAKER_01
So she never thinks that she can t do something.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that s a really powerful thing to grow up with.
4
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes, you know, you re luckier when you don t know what you can t do.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s actually something that Lou and my mother have a lot in common.
4
SPEAKER_02
So they... Shout out to your mom and dad for all of us for helping you to have those values that are helping you create these kinds of breakthroughs.
4
SPEAKER_03
Hey Lou, you re someone who in my mind is one of the most extraordinary manifestors of the future I ve ever met.
4
SPEAKER_03
A lot just, you know, literally going from we should test all of San Miguel County to making that happen to on the phone, you know, every other hour with a different governor and a different head of a nation and a different Fortune 50 CEO.
4
SPEAKER_03
Just as an entrepreneur, as an entrepreneur here, a couple of thoughts of what you ve
4
SPEAKER_03
experience learned or what s driven you to think at this level scale like nobody else.
4
SPEAKER_04
Well when I was little my dad used to say what he missed about being young was not knowing what he couldn t do.
4
SPEAKER_04
And so I ve been determined to never know that and the way I look out the window or look out the door and I see if there s a reality that that you don t like change it.
4
SPEAKER_04
And so the idea is that it s about doing the things that are right and finding the big things, the things that move the needle and change lives, and then just doing them, right?
4
SPEAKER_04
And when people say you can t or there s a reason or whatever, it s almost like it should be energizing.
4
SPEAKER_04
And it should be energizing because like, that s energy that they re putting out there.
4
SPEAKER_04
And you can use that energy to make it, you can turn that right around and make it the most positive thing that fuels your fire.
4
SPEAKER_04
And if you know that, and you really believe it, and you put all of your energy into it, you know, the world gets made by that energy.
4
SPEAKER_03
You re both, you and your family are closest friends of mine and my family and Tony as well.
4
SPEAKER_03
This is a love fest, but just this is inspiration.
4
SPEAKER_03
I think we re living in a time where individuals can change the world.
4
SPEAKER_03
You know, COVAX as a team is a very small team of individuals who potential to do this.
4
SPEAKER_03
And besides the implications of the diagnostics and the vaccine, I just want this to become inspiration for everybody watching about not giving up and not taking no and not thinking you can t make a difference because we all can.
4
SPEAKER_02
Thank you, everyone.
4
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I hope this has been helpful to you, inspiring to you, both on a business level, but most importantly, freeing you from the virus of fear that seems to consume so many, showing you that the solutions are here, the answers are coming.
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To learn more about the high-precision, affordable antibody test that you just heard Tony, Mei-Mei, Lou, and Peter discuss, visit www.covax.com.
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That s www.covaxx.com.
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The Tony Robbins Podcast is directed by Tony Robbins and produced by the Tony Robbins team.
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Special thanks to Mei-Mei Hu, Lou Reese, and Dr. Peter Diamandis.
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Copyright Robbins Research International.