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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, I share with you an organization called the Cloud Appreciation Society.
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I swear it s a real thing.
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I also translate a Southern Indiana phrase for getting a new job.
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And Bill and I pontificate on the question, is sales really for me?
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Hey everybody, welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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I am one of your hosts, Bill Kasky.
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I m the other host, Brian Neal.
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So happy to be here with you today.
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We know that there s a lot of weirdness going on in the world with the COVID and the this and the that, and we are glad that you
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have chosen us to be a part of your life here during this, and we hope to bring you some ideas and maybe a little humor occasionally.
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Brian sometimes is funny.
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I m not so much, but sometimes he s not as funny as he thinks he is, but he is funny.
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I do laugh at myself.
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And by the way, if you haven t heard, you ve heard us talk about the insider, you need to join the group.
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We re meeting once a month, doing some deep dives, direct coaching from me and Bill.
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It s live.
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It s real.
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We re interacting with all of the coaches in that group.
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And you just go to theadvancelinkpodcast.com, look for the Insider, sign up, become a member, tell your friends, all of the above.
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You guys are really good people in that group, and all of you need to be thinking about that as we go.
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We re going to be getting some.
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interviews, too, with some of the members in that group.
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Because some of the things that are happening are really intriguing.
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We had a guy who got this massive deal after it kind of stalled and got stuck.
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And we spent a little bit of time with him on the phone.
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And he executed, I think, what you told him to do.
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And he got the deal.
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And so there s a lot of stories starting to come back like that.
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Yeah.
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I think he paid for his investment.
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I think his return was in the 10,000 times range.
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So I m a weather geek.
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So if you ever get asked the question, what would you do if you didn t do what you did?
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What would you do?
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Mine is I would be a weather person.
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I d be a meteorologist.
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I love the weather.
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I always have.
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So I watch the Weather Channel a lot.
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And they have a series of shows.
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And one of them is called Strange Weather.
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And it shows these shows of these unique clouds.
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And so I was watching that the other day.
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And they have scientists on there and this sort of thing.
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So they re showing this one big cloud, this big, huge, kind of pre-storm, kind of block cloud thing that looks really funny.
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And they said, we re going to go to a cloud expert now to talk us through this.
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So I m expecting, what would you expect if you re going to a cloud expert?
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You would expect the person to be what?
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A meteorologist, a scientist.
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A scientist, right?
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Probably a PhD or a master s degree.
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So they go to this guy named Gavin Pretor-Pinney,
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who s a cloud expert, who s the president of the, I can t even say it, the Cloud Appreciation Society.
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That s his job.
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And I m like, what?
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There s a place.
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Straight face?
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Is this all straight face stuff?
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And yeah, he s standing out on this, and he s talking about this is a special type of cumulus cloud that usually precedes a storm formed by an updraft of cold air into warm air.
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But I thought, you think they could find someone with a little more credentials than a guy who s the president of the Cloud Appreciation Society, which I didn t know existed.
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I didn t know that either.
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Didn t know existed.
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And I didn t know that being the president of that obviously makes you an expert on cloud service.
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On the Weather Channel.
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And you re the Weather Channel.
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I m thinking, they ve got some access to some really smart people.
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So for those of you listening who didn t know, if you re not a member of the Advanced Learning Podcast Insider, you can also be a member of the Cloud Appreciation Society.
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So there s that.
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Unbelievable.
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Now, let me ask you this.
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When I think of the Cloud Appreciation Society, I do not think of a lot of people running around like their hair is on fire, stressed, on opioids, medication, fentanyl.
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A really good point.
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They re not among the stressors.
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No.
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They re probably, in fact, I can see the Monon Trail from here.
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I ll tell you a little history on the Monon television.
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Very chill.
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Very chill, and there s a whole lot of looking up, so you don t have that neck thing where you re always looking at your phone.
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It is interesting, isn t it, though?
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That there s a group like this.
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Now, I ve not done much research to see if there s a Facebook group or whatever.
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Maybe one of our members is a listener.
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Well, maybe a listener is a member of the Cloud Appreciation Society.
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What was his name again?
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Gavin something.
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Gavin Pretor-Penny.
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P-R-E-T-O-dash-Penny, I think.
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That s a good name, Pretor-Penny.
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Yeah.
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Take out the Gavin, just do Pretor-Penny.
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All right, so we re going to riff on a topic today.
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We ve been doing this a little bit.
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We like to give lots of advice over our 600, 700 episodes, lots of advice, lots of lists, three things, five things.
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And then every once in a while, we like to just riff on something a little bit deeper.
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So this is more of a thought-provoking thing.
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But I posed the question to Bill, and he agreed we should talk about this.
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Have we ever asked ourselves, as professional salespeople, is sales really for me?
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is the profession of selling really for me.
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And those of you who are listening will likely be in three different camps of your career.
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Either you ve just started out in sales, you got your first job out of college, you re two, three years in, and you re realizing, man, I m not sure this whole sales thing is for me.
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Or you re in your mid-career, 35, 45, kind of in that mid-range, and you re going, man, I m not sure where this whole thing s going.
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I m making a lot of money.
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I m doing great.
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But I m maybe missing some purpose.
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And then there are those of you who are kind of on the tail end, where you re kind of all of a sudden staring in the mirror going, wow, what just happened?
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I m a 25-year sales vet.
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You go to the national sales meeting.
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You re the next oldest person in the room.
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You re going, is this it?
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Like, is this what I m going to wrap up my career, carry in the bag?
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You know, is that my thing?
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And so it s kind of a thought provoking thing for you to explore a little bit.
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And for those of you who might be new listeners who are just getting into selling or maybe even thinking about it, it s a really good thing for you to do.
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So forward this around to this episode to your friends.
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This might be a good thing for one of your friends who s, you know, kind of in that kind of transitional phase and wondering to help them think through whether or not sales is for them.
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So I pose the questions and then I let Bill.
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answer the questions.
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Exactly.
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Well, you posed a lot of them there.
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One is we ve got to come up with another way to say, carry the bag.
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Is it that good?
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Well, I mean, that s maybe a filler brush.
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It might be from the 60s.
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That was an old saying.
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One of my friends says that, carrying the bag.
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We all know what it means.
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Yeah.
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I carried one.
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Did you carry one?
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I actually had one.
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The digital bag, not as heavy.
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It wasn t really a bag.
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Although the first laptop
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First laptop was a beast.
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13 pounds.
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That was a beast.
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And about as much power as an abacus.
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Think you re this is a really spot-on topic because of all that s going on and has gone on the last few months And I know we reference that a lot, but the fact is that there s a lot of shifts There s a lot of shifts that have happened that are happening that will happen So I don t think it s unusual for people to have the question of is this what I meant to do is this
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Not even is this all there is, because sometimes I think that gets overworked, but just is this really my destiny?
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Yeah.
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And am I crafting my destiny intentionally, or am I just kind of going along for the ride, and the tide goes up, and I go up, and the tide goes down, and I go down?
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Or am I building something, constructing something intentionally with my life?
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And I was telling you before the show, I listened to Hugh Jackman, who is a great actor and been in a lot of stuff, Wolverine franchise.
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And Tim Ferriss was interviewing him.
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And he says, don t think that money is the answer to this.
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The money is never the answer.
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He says, I don t have a financial worry in my life.
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And every day, I wake up and ask myself the question, is this what I want to do?
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And he says, I m trained for it.
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When I m in it, I love it.
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But it doesn t mean I can t answer the questions.
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And the questions shouldn t come from a place of shame.
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They should come from a place of, I don t know, maybe it is.
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Maybe the answer to this is, yes, this is exactly what I want to do.
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And sometimes we just have to ask ourselves a question so that we can answer it.
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Clearly, but if we never ask the question, then there s always that doubt to me.
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Yes, it kind of rolls around our mind Yeah, and I and I agree so that one of the first things that popped in my mind is you should I think it s a Constant question Constance a strong word like what is constantly like every minute every five minutes of a year?
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But in some regular time that you choose for yourself you decide.
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Yeah, I think I want to you know revisit is this the thing for me and
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And one thing I think people miss sometimes is they don t think that it s OK to change or that they have to do something before they can change.
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I had a conversation with my cousin who s career switched, was a math teacher, went back to school, got a business degree, got his CPA.
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And now he works for a really, really big firm, one of the big three.
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And he was talking about his next step in his career.
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And I say, he s really smart.
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I said, man, you could go be a controller.
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He lives in a public corporate world.
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I said, you could be a controller.
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He s like, no, I couldn t.
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I need to get this.
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I ve never been a director yet.
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I can t be a controller because I haven t been a director yet.
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And I m like, yeah, you can, man.
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And see, people think there are these written rules about what they can and can t do.
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And I think that s a limiting belief that people have that can be false sometimes, is they think, well, I can t be an AE until I m a BDR, or whatever.
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I can t be a major account rep until I have this other experience.
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And that then, I think, forces people into that kind of corporate cow path.
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Our friend Terry Daniels talks about this cow path that you just
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have to do it.
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And then we have the timelines, the time frames that people get put to.
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Like, well, you plan on being a BDR for about 18 months.
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18 months.
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Exactly right.
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Because if you stay one day over, you ll be so burned out, you won t be savable.
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No, exactly.
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You ll be a mess, Sebastian Case.
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Yeah, I just picture a guy saying, so how long have you been a BDR?
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It s my 19th year, my 19th season of making 100 calls a day.
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Okie dokie.
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And once I got past the 18 month, I just said, well, screw it.
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This is what it s going to be.
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Yeah.
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I think those can all be myths.
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And so I would have people, my counsel is always to question those things just because someone says it is or it isn t or whatever.
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Because I asked my cousin, I said, are you doing that for you?
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or do you think you have to for the, and he did say, I m doing it for me, for my confidence.
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I m like, if you re doing it for you, I think it s a great move, but it needs to be for you, you know, if you think if that s going to help you have more confidence in the next thing.
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So I always,
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I always challenge people to think differently about these subjects, to think of what can, because I ve noticed a lot of people when they say, well, is sales really for me?
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They ll go to, well, I m not sure what else I would do.
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Or, well, once you re in sales, you can t really get in anything else.
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There s a lot of that messaging that goes on in the brain.
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It s like it s all I ve got so well that that is what I was gonna say is that there s the corporate cow path Which is the you go from BDR to ADR to SDR to whatever?
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Or from director to or from account director control or whatever that is.
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I didn t understand that but that s just because I m not that genre, right?
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But there s also the cow path of us in our lives and
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Like, I ve been thinking at where I am in my age and client base and people that I work with is, is this what I want to do for the next five to 10 years?
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Do I want to go out and write a book in the next year?
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Do I want to start an online television show?
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Do I want, and probably neither of, but those are just some of the thoughts and I think that,
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It s easy to throw out the word reinvent, but it s hard to really think, well, what would that look like?
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If I m a financial planner right now, and I m making a half million dollars a year, and I ve got good clients, but I m kind of bored, OK, you shouldn t go through life bored.
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Does that mean giving everything up?
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Probably not.
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Does that mean writing a book?
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But I think it all gets back sometimes till we get in our comfort zone, and we re making the half million a year, and it feels like,
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you know, I could do that, but yeah, I d probably like to sit on the patio a little bit more.
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And then I hear someone like Dan Sullivan, who you, you know, he s an advisor to you and a wise, brilliantly wise dude.
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He s like, where s your frickin  25-year plan?
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Where s your 10-year plan?
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How are you going to use the assets that you ve accumulated over the time you ve been in the business to give it back to the world?
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You may get paid for it, you may not, but what are you really constructing in the future?
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And sometimes it s easy to not construct.
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And to me, I know I m always trying to construct, but sometimes I find myself not constructing, not creating as much as I want to, and I have to slap myself upside the head and say, what are you doing?
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You re not happy when you re not creating, so that s just laziness.
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That s just slothiness, sleuthiness.
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It s one of the seven deadly sins, right?
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It is.
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Sloth.
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Sloth.
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So the point of that is that if you truly aren t fulfilled and aren t fired up about what you do, you ve got to find a way to be.
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Don t ditch it all and go in tomorrow and quit.
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No, we just got to find those areas.
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You know, like I m looking here, you ve got the piano.
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You re a musician.
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You love playing the piano.
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I do.
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Why isn t playing the piano more of your practice?
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Yeah, exactly.
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Could you do a audio of you playing the piano behind something, and it goes viral, and you make a million dollars at it?
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Doing what you do, what you know, what your passion is.
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And I don t think, I think we think, well, yeah, nobody, come on, nobody s going to read.
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No, nobody likes music.
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Who would like music?
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I think what I ll do is I ll take my piano, my podcast headphones, and you drop up my referee uniform.
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We ll run out onto the field at the Philadelphia Eagles game.
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We ll see if anyone notices.
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Well, but you d be the only one who did that.
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Ever.
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Be my last game.
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I always say there s a whole bunch of stuff I m going to do in my last game.
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That would be it.
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But there s also, so let me go the other side of this, because this is a good little thing to talk about.
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And it s funny, it s almost like role reversal here.
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I also think there s this idea of acceptance that people fight sometimes, that we re so drawn to have to be high achievement, go get, passionate, like a lot of people in our world, that s how they are, right?
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Live your best life, be the best version of you, coach yourself up, vision yourself, get it, hustle.
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And so I m kind of starting to go the other way.
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And like, how about we just sort of chill and accept life and focus on that stuff?
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This whole COVID thing s got me kind of more in that mode.
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And asking ourselves, are we addicted to the chase?
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Are we addicted to the stuff and the whatever?
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Just all of it, you know?
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Oh, the answers, yes.
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Of course we are.
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Yeah.
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And so same.
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And you get a lot of people in sales coaching.
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Like Hunter Culls, prospecting, done, big, boom, do this, done, best-selling author, done.
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You know, all that jazz.
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And I m like, well.
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Maybe there s this idea that is, can I make selling for me different than it seems like it needs to be?
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Because what it seems like it needs to be is a grind to people.
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And maybe it doesn t have to be a grind.
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I ve got one of my best friends from high school
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So he s 50.
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And I got to see him over the 4th of July in my hometown.
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And he sells.
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See, I was in Evansville.
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Sales.
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He s a sales guy.
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Yeah, he got on at.
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That s one of the things we talk about down there.
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He carries two bags, actually.
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He s that good.
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I heard he got on at Toyota.
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He s working third trick, but it ain t bad.
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I mean, he s not bad.
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You can tell I come from my family reunion right there.
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Got on at for those of you who aren t from Southern Indiana means that they got a job at a certain company that we translate that still apply to sales though.
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Got on it.
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We could get on it.
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I heard he got on at Kroger s.
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I told you, I just got home from Evansville.
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Here we are.
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Well, see, I always refer to it as Nordstrom s, Costco s, because Jane has a family member who always puts a, we re not sure if it s a plural or an apostrophe.
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It is, all the above.
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It s unclear, unclear.
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Yeah, looking for Mr. Costco.
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But he is a career sales guy for Yellow Pages, YP.
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Wow.
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And he s been doing it.
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He wins awards every year.
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He knows exactly what he s doing.
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He knows the customers that he goes to gets.
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He still does a little bit of prospecting.
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He keeps taking good care of people.
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He lives a wonderful life.
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He s not married, doesn t have kids and is great.
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And I talked to him, he s just really happy, loves, we still keep together really well.
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I m like, there s a lesson in watching him, you know, that he has just sort of accepted this.
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He s not like, you know, I mean, he wins awards because he s good, but he s also not chasing.
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He s not like defining his life by his president s club awards or anything like that, you know?
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And so that s got me thinking on the other side of that.
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For those of you who feel like if you re questioning a sales for me and it feels like it s difficult or hard or grind or hustle, and I m waving my hand.
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I m the first guy that usually leads with that stuff.
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Maybe it doesn t have to be.
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SPEAKER_01
Maybe not.
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SPEAKER_00
So I wrote an S.
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Scarlet letter s in the middle and I drew a couple of circles.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh Concentric circles or eccentric?
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SPEAKER_00
No, they re really wild circles centric.
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SPEAKER_00
It s concentric crazy goes around anyway, and I and the s in the middle is for selling but but are we really
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Are we really in sales today?
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Is that really what makes us money?
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Because when I think about Who was I watching the other day somebody on YouTube?
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SPEAKER_00
Probably shouldn t say it was but okay.
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SPEAKER_00
They have a million viewers.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and I
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And they generate a lot of money every month on product sales, more than you or I make collectively and everybody in this room makes.
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And yet, they re not in sales.
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But they are in sales because they re generating revenue and income.
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SPEAKER_00
But they aren t in the traditional sales.
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SPEAKER_00
So I would say if you re in sales today,
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You have to look at the circles outside of that and say, how can I do this job without me feeling like I got to show up every day at 7 a.m.
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at the coffee shop and network at night and take
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SPEAKER_00
people out to lunch at noon.
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SPEAKER_00
You can still do some of that, but can you reinvent the position a little bit?
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, we ve done that a little bit with this, with the podcast.
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SPEAKER_01
Absolutely, for sure.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, see, that s great.
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Because people, and one of the problems you get is you get taught, plus we have books and things, like we have predictable revenue that says, OK, this is what you do.
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SPEAKER_01
You have 40 salespeople that make 100 calls, 30 of those turns into appointments, and all the math, and da, da, da, da, da, chase, chase, chase, chase, chase, get, get, get, get, get.
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SPEAKER_01
It s kind of all around there.
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SPEAKER_01
I love this idea of reinventing it.
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and saying, I can be successful and fulfilled, and it doesn t have to be the way that it was laid out.
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SPEAKER_01
It doesn t have to be that way.
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SPEAKER_00
But you really have to have the courage to take the first step to do that.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, it was easy for us because we had a radio show, and it was an easy transition.
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SPEAKER_00
But if we d have gone from never having broadcasted ever in our life to doing this, we probably would have put it off for years and years.
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SPEAKER_00
Right.
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SPEAKER_00
Or quit.
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SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
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SPEAKER_01
That s very, very good.
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SPEAKER_01
I love that.
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SPEAKER_01
So hopefully you got some thought starters for you.
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Hope you re driving around listening to this or you re on the treadmill or whatever you re doing and you re going, hmm, this is really, really good.
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SPEAKER_01
It s always our hope that when you hear those things, those thoughts either on both sides make you squirm a little bit like, oh man, wow.
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SPEAKER_01
You know, like Bill talked about the kind of shock you last time we talked or they make you feel invigorated and inspired and that sort of thing.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, the lesson here is you can do anything you want.
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SPEAKER_00
You can make your life and your business and your sales life look any way you want.
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SPEAKER_00
So if it s not working for you, or you just say, I don t know what I want it to look like, but I d like to take 20 hours and sketch it out and just play around with it a little bit.
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SPEAKER_00
I would say that s a good start.
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SPEAKER_00
And don t, yeah, because it s easy to say, well, you know, the director, the controller, the account manager, get out of that cow path thinking.
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SPEAKER_01
You got to get out of that.
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SPEAKER_01
You do.
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SPEAKER_01
One of my best friends from college, business major at Indiana University, graduated, got a sales job for NCR, the cash register company over in Dayton, was miserable, went back to dental school, owns his own dental practice in Denver now.
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SPEAKER_01
In Denver?
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
And then he just invented this new product, this new chewing gum.
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SPEAKER_01
for people that have like Invisalign.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
He and a partner just invented that.
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SPEAKER_01
They re trying to market it out to Walgreens and stuff like that.
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SPEAKER_00
But think about how many people who were in his shoes never did that.
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SPEAKER_00
Almost all of them.
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SPEAKER_00
They continued to go, you know, corporate ranks.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, I m an SDR.
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SPEAKER_01
Almost all of them.
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SPEAKER_01
Yep.
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SPEAKER_01
Yep.
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SPEAKER_01
And they wake up and that s it.
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SPEAKER_00
National cash register.
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SPEAKER_00
Are they still around?
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SPEAKER_01
NCR.
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SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
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SPEAKER_01
It s a good question.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Are there still cash registers?
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SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
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SPEAKER_00
It s a bag in a bag.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, of course.
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SPEAKER_01
All right.
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SPEAKER_01
That s it.
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SPEAKER_01
We will see you next time.
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SPEAKER_01
Vanselling Podcast.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Bye.