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Hi, Sasheer.
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Hi, Nicole.
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We have a special episode this week.
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Isn t that fun?
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That is so fun.
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Today we have podcaster and astrologer Issa Nakazawa.
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And she currently hosts Stars and Stars with Issa, a weekly podcast where she sits with talented artists and thinkers of our time to read their birth charts and discuss their life s purpose.
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And she s going to do that very thing for us.
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Yeah.
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So let s get into it with Issa Nakazawa.
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Yeah.
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Hi, Issa.
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Hi, Issa!
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Yeah!
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah!
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We re here with Issa.
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Yes!
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Hey, everybody.
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Hi, hi, hi.
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This is a fun, special episode, because usually we have, like, we do a segment called, everyone s a best friend.
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We re besting each other.
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And then we have, like, two best friends, but you re a singular person, and you re into astrology, so how d that happen?
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Wait, so do I have to do double the work then, because I m just the one?
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No!
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The stars can be your best friend.
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Yes, the stars can be.
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Ooh, I like that.
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I got my star team.
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Thank you so much.
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I m like, and now I am Mars.
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Wait, what was the question?
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Like, how d I get into it?
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Yeah, how d you fall into it?
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Yeah, I definitely feel like I didn t fall into it.
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It was pretty, I feel like it was like zigzag because I always had like somewhat of witchy friends around me.
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But I grew up, I would say like pretty politicized, meaning I was more into like thinking about the world through like logical systems of power.
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And I always wanted
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When you were growing up?
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Yeah, so my mom is Uruguayan, and then my dad s Japanese-American, and so being like a younger, I m the youngest sibling of three sisters, and I was always the one, I m a Scorpio.
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So I was always like thinking about history and like going deep into like where, where,
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Like, what was the story of my mom and my dad?
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And then you find out, you know, some difficult things about what happened.
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Like my mom grew up in the dictatorship and had to leave her home country.
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My father s lineage was part of Japanese internment on the West Coast.
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So, you know, you like you grow up and you re kind of angry as you re finding out information.
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about what happened to your family.
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And so, I was always a little skeptical and wary of religion and spirituality as, like, an opiate.
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Like... But at the same time, like, in true fashion for all of us, I have a lot of contradictions, I was also, like, a very devotional kid.
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So, I feel, like, kind of glad I found astrology later in life.
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Because I feel like if I had grown up in a really, like, religious context, I would have been, like, a believer.
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You know?
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I m pretty aware.
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I have that vulnerability.
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I love the way you talk about yourself as a kid.
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I was like, I colored.
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And she was like, I was politicized.
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Yeah, I was like, oh, my God.
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I was like, I didn t know anything about that shit.
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Yeah, well, we all have such unique, yeah, ways of coming up that s, like, not really on us, right?
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It s, like, our family culture, what s around us, because we re just kids.
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Like, you were a smart kid, and you went to clubs and stuff.
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As an adult, I learned I didn t know how to get to a club.
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Like, a school club, which is an insane thing to say out loud, but we ve talked about this so many times.
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Oh, do you mean, like, extracurricular club?
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I thought you meant, like, the club.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, no, no, no, no.
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I was not a club kid at all.
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No, she was like, Spanish club, glee club, choir club, lacrosse club, volleyball club.
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Damn, that s all the clubs!
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Gemini Rising!
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And another club.
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Yeah.
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I also loved a club.
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That s what I mean, being a member in a group.
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I think that s really beautiful, but it can be dangerous.
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I think what s dangerous for me is when you re not thinking critically.
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And I think astrology right now, on the one hand, it s such a cool moment where there s such a shorthand for it.
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So you can get into conversations like this today and there s some context.
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And I love that.
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I think the other side of it is like, let s not throw these things at people.
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Because I feel like that s the turnoff.
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It s like, oh, I can t date a Gemini.
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You know, just big stereotypes.
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I think they re funny if they re lighthearted.
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Yeah, I think it gets super weird when you re being for real about it.
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I ve learned nothing about other signs.
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I barely know anything about me.
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Yeah.
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Are Virgos, do they not like clubs?
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I m really stuck on clubs.
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You really are.
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Well, yeah, I mean, I wouldn t I would say that.
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So we ll get into both of your charts, but both of you are what s called mutable signs.
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You re a fixed sign Taurus, but you re mutable rising and mutable signs in general, just like they want to be fluid.
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And so membership stuff is like very fixed signs, like fixed signs are like, I want a routine.
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I want to be able to know what to expect, and I want to, like, lead within that, whereas mutable signs are, like, way more content to just be fluid and be like this and that.
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Here s a question.
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With friendship, do you do charts on your friends, and then you re like, mm, I know why you re acting like that?
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I mean, actually, to answer the first question, like, I definitely think my friends stewarded me towards deepening my practice, like... Oh, my God, these words!
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Yeah, my... I m a Scorpio!
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We re so nerdy!
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But my, like, really close, like, women friends, I think were the ones who were always...
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just like rooting for me and seeing the ways that I was like, you know, year five of doing study.
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And they were like, let s, you know, believe in ourselves and push me to get my first client practice.
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And so I feel like it s always been women friendship that has taken me from like a hobbyist to taking myself seriously.
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And I think I m someone who needs community to take myself seriously.
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I don t feel, like, driven by myself, if that makes sense.
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I m actually driven through friendship.
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So if my close friends are like, we believe in you, like, it s easier for me to take risks.
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I don t know how either of you are, but...
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I mean, yeah, I do feel like friendship, like, having support around me helps propel me a bit.
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But I also am self-motivated.
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You probably know that.
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Yeah.
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Well, both of you have a lot of... You have a lot of both, though.
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You have a lot of, like, being able to propel from within.
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So that s why I was like, eye contact for you.
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I was like, and how is it for you?
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I think I m self-motivated, but also...
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I like to just double check.
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If I have a joke that s a little risque, I ll be like, so should I tell it?
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And she s always like, yes.
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And then I have to figure out a way to make it right for normal people.
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And then with writing, when we first started writing together, I was like, well, I m not a writer.
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I just do ideas.
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And she was like, you are a writer.
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And I was like, am I?
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So yeah, it s like I can do the things, but then I always have to double check to be like,
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Can I?
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I love that.
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I feel like that s like such a good example of your of you becoming almost like the mirror that s like confirming.
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Yes.
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You know, and that s so powerful to me.
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I feel like friendship is always that process of recognition.
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And it s also crazy because it s like this is a person I trust.
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Oh, yeah.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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And both of you have charts that are discerning with that, because I feel like if you don t have that self, not self-trust, but if you don t have the people, the few people in your life that you can vet, like, is this funny?
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Yeah.
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Because you can t have like a bunch of yes people around you or else you re like, yo, what?
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I think that s the demise of a lot of people.
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Is it?
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Yeah.
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People are just around them being like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And it s like, no, no, no.
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Don t do that.
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Yeah.
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Both all three of us have sun signs that are like not into that.
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Wait, can we just hop into it?
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Because I don t know what sun signs are.
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And... Well, what would you just say off top?
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Like, no wrong answers.
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What a sun sign is?
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Yeah.
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Just like, first thing comes to mind.
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The bright side of you.
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Aw!
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I love that!
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The aw!
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Leads me to believe I m wrong!
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I love that.
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I think it s, like, your most prominent sign, or, like, what you are at your core, maybe?
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I love that.
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Yeah, so... You re right.
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You said who s right?
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Oh my God, that s hilariously competitive.
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Who s right?
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Who s right?
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We re all right.
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Can you grade us?
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I was an educator for a minute.
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So your rising sign, this is so, for listeners, we have charts in front of us because I really, I really encourage people to see a visual chart because I think the thing with astrology, I think the reason things don t stick for people is because you need to like have a visual aid and understand
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I think it s helpful.
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I know it s a pseudoscience.
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I know.
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But astrology and astronomy have such an interrelationship, and I think it helps to think about it in nature.
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Because for me, that s when it sticks.
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Like music and nature, I m like, boom, I ll remember.
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So your rising sign is the sign that was rising in the eastern horizon at your exact time and location.
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So if you just think about that, it s like, okay, now we have an image of like, we re ascending into the world.
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And Chani Nicholas, who s probably the most famous astrologer in this moment, always calls it your big yes.
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Because it s the moment you burst into the scene of your life.
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So the rising sign, I would say, is the most personal.
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And the degree of the rising changes every four minutes.
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So if you think about how, right?
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So if you re born four minutes before, four minutes after, depending on when and where you were born, you might be a totally different sign.
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So I think that s helpful for people.
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The moon changes signs every two to two and a half days.
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That s also pretty intimate.
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The sun changes every 30 to 31, 20 to 31 days.
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So the sun is like a little less personal, if that makes sense.
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Because you
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you re sharing it with a lot more people.
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So actually it doesn t mean it less personal, but hopefully that makes sense in terms of the like metaphor.
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Yeah, I think so.
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So your sun is you.
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Me.
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It s your purpose.
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It s like, think about where you shine.
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah.
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And then the moon is, I like to think about it as the moon is like your body.
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So it s your emotions, but it s also
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Think about the fact that if you don t meet your needs of the moon, you can t even get to the purpose of your sun.
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So I m an Aries moon, and so is Tashir.
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So Aries moons are pretty turnt.
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It s like Rihanna, Tupac, AOC.
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People who have a lot in common.
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Yeah, so it s people who need to say what they need to say, but behind the scenes, it looks a little more like you usually need movement.
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If you re not an exercise person or you re not able-bodied, you re still gonna need to be high-intensity in somehow.
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It s very Aries.
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It s very fiery and passionate.
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And if you don t meet those needs, you re not gonna be able to even think about what your son wants to do.
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Because your moon is, like, immediate.
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It s your emotions, but I think people think emotions, and they don t really know what that means.
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And it s like, it s kind of your daily needs.
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So you are, I believe, let s go to your chart, you re a Gemini moon.
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And Gemini is an air sign, and it s very curious and childlike.
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And Aries and Gemini moons...
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Gemini and Aries moons are very compatible because we re both fast.
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We re, like, fast, quick-paced, externalizing signs.
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So we re, like, kicking, we re laughing, we re thinking about ideas, we re moving through the world at, like, a lightning speed.
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And so Gemini and Aries moons kind of get each other.
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Is that the rising?
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The rising sign is more, like, how you engage and interact and what motivates you.
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What, like, motivates your life.
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So the moon s actually way more private, if that makes sense.
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Oh, because I thought it was a Gemini rising.
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No, you re Virgo rising.
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SPEAKER_02
Oh, yes.
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Virgo, Virgo.
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Yeah.
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You re a double Virgo.
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And this is a beautiful thing for you to think about.
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So when your son and rising are the same, it s because you were coming into the world.
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You were born.
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Can I say your birth time?
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Yeah.
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You were born at eight in the morning.
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So as the sun is like rising, you come into the world.
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So you have this like daybreak personality.
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But I don t like the day.
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Oh my God, this is what Rico Nasty said.
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I was talking about the winter, and she s like, I don t like the winter.
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I m like, okay, but it s not that literal.
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It just means you have... Yeah, because Rico said the same thing.
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She s like, I hate the winter.
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I m like, no, no.
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SPEAKER_02
I hate mornings.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, no, it doesn t have to be... Like, she texted me to be like, come.
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It s not morning, y all.
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It s like...
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Noon is morning to me.
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I gotta put you on blast.
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It is morning until we get back to the single digits.
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1 p.m.
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2 p.m.
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is my afternoon.
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Like, that s the start.
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Like, I think breakfast and brunch should go until noon, noon 30.
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SPEAKER_01
I agree.
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I don t want a lasagna at noon 30.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Noon 30 is killing me.
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But yeah, no, it s not literal in that way.
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It goes back to what we were saying earlier about, like, people who have that daybreak personality can, like, take risks and can bet on themselves.
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And I think the thing with astrology like therapy is like sometimes we don t see ourselves clearly and especially Virgo like Virgos tend to be so analytical towards themselves that sometimes when I read for Virgo they re like they re analyzing what I m saying and they re also like I don t know like they re they re more
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they re not necessarily egoic in the same way, where they re like, that s me, like, I m gonna go out and get it.
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And so that s all it means, is that you re someone who can, like, be in the world in that way and lead, where other people might be, like, a lot.
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SPEAKER_02
Like, the things you do are very, it s very courageous, whether or not you have that in your head or not, you re, like, out here in the world.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
That s funny, because I don t think it s courageous.
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SPEAKER_01
I m just like, I couldn t be in an office.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, how do you view it?
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SPEAKER_01
I couldn t work at a store.
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SPEAKER_01
I like it.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, I did.
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But like, I just I don t know.
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SPEAKER_01
This is what I like to do.
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And so I m good at.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I was very bad at waitressing.
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SPEAKER_01
Like, I ve had job like, I remember I had a job interview and they re like, what are your strengths?
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I was like, I can look busy.
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And in hindsight, that s not that s not a thing.
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When did both of you have like either an internal awareness or someone else in your life acknowledged or like kind of helped you locate like this was a skill of yours to talk and to like be funny and use words?
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SPEAKER_02
I have a very specific memory.
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It s in high school.
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I did this government camp because I was I guess I was politicized as well.
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SPEAKER_03
The word of the day is.
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And I remember like putting some jokes in one of my campaign speeches and people were laughing and afterwards they re like, you should do something where you like stand in front of people and talk and make them laugh.
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SPEAKER_03
But like no one knew like stand up was a job.
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SPEAKER_03
Like no one knew to be like, you should be a comedian.
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SPEAKER_03
They re just like, do something where you make people laugh.
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And I was like, I wonder what that is.
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And did you see like yourself in that?
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Like, did it feel good or were you like?
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah.
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I felt really good to make people laugh.
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And I was like, oh, yeah, I wonder what this mysterious job could be.
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And she never figured it out.
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Did you have a moment like that or moments like that?
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When I was little, I would just be funny.
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And my grandmother, she was she s from Barbados.
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SPEAKER_01
So she had other things like what is it like phrases?
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, different ones.
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And instead of like, you re making me laugh, she would say, you tickle me.
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SPEAKER_01
So I would try to make her say that.
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So that s like the first time when I was little, I was like, oh, I I know that people laugh at my grandpa would always be like, oh, she s putting on a show.
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SPEAKER_01
He still says that.
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And then in.
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Haskew, my mother was like, you should try out for the play because you talk so much.
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And then I remember the first performance.
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SPEAKER_01
It was short, a short plays by Christopher Durang.
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SPEAKER_01
I remember like that first laugh and I was like, oh.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, boy.
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SPEAKER_01
Mm-hmm.
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SPEAKER_01
So, like, this kid, like, every night I could do this.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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And then I was like, I have to do that.
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SPEAKER_01
And then school was brushed aside.
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SPEAKER_01
The only club I went to was theater.
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SPEAKER_01
The only club!
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SPEAKER_01
Because someone brought me.
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Otherwise, I would not have figured it out.
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But then I truly was like, oh, I m not doing the SATs.
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SPEAKER_01
I m not doing anything else.
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SPEAKER_01
School doesn t matter.
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SPEAKER_01
I am an actress.
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SPEAKER_02
I think that s amazing, though.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think it s kind of, I always view it as a little bit lucky when you have those moments early in life where someone identifies a talent that you enjoy.
1
SPEAKER_02
Because what if someone identifies a talent and you re like, I don t get any joy from that.
1
SPEAKER_02
Like, it seems like both of you are like, yes.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I ride into the sunset with my lols.
1
SPEAKER_02
And then when did you all meet and decide to work together?
1
SPEAKER_02
We met in New York 32 years ago.
1
SPEAKER_01
In 2009.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was like, wow, okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
We were like put on this like mashup improv team by a teacher that we had both had.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I remember I ve described this several times.
1
SPEAKER_01
She was wearing golden rod pants and a teal shirt and she had a fro and I was like, God, she s so pretty.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then she was funny.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, that s not fair.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then she was nice.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, fuck her.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then we just, like, started hanging out, and I simply don t remember the very first time we hung out alone.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it took a few, like, shows and group meetings and hangs and things like that, but eventually it was like, oh, I just like you.
1
SPEAKER_03
I was hanging out with you all the time.
1
SPEAKER_02
Do you feel like friendship for both of you is like a honing of craft or your friendship specifically, like it strengthens your actual craft or is it more just like you make each other feel safe and seen?
1
SPEAKER_02
That s a great question.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think we re friendship forward and honing craft second.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh, I love that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, when we do write together, I think a normal person, maybe a month.
1
SPEAKER_01
Us, a year, year and a half.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because we ll be like, ha, ha, ha, ha.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they ll be like, wait, should we work on that?
1
SPEAKER_01
And it s like, great, we wrote six words.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think we deserve a drink.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s hella funny.
1
SPEAKER_02
That is actually sometimes the challenge when you get along with someone so well, because the tension is low.
1
SPEAKER_02
Sometimes you need tension, right, to produce.
1
SPEAKER_02
Or for me, I do sometimes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s easy.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s nice because it s easy.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I, I, we could just sit on the couch and like put something on it, but then like get on our phones and then send each other memes from this next two feet away.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
I m like, oh, that s funny.
1
SPEAKER_02
Another, another like.
1
SPEAKER_02
questions that I had just to show the nuance and complexity of astrology is there s a lot of similarities, but I m interested in the differences, too.
1
SPEAKER_02
So Virgo rising is a nocturnal sign.
1
SPEAKER_02
So it s like the tarot card of Virgo is this kind of shadowy figure, and it s looking into a lantern, and it s looking inward.
1
SPEAKER_02
So it s mining within.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s like internal world is very rich.
1
SPEAKER_02
Gemini s external.
1
SPEAKER_02
So it s always like interacting with the world and itself and processing that way.
2
SPEAKER_03
And so you re Gemini and you re Virgo so there s like that internal extroverted but here s the nuance you have a lot of your planets in these like kind of.
2
SPEAKER_03
more introverted houses.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
So I m curious for you, like how you describe yourself and your energy in terms of the introversion, extroversion, because you have a lot of extroverted signs and introverted houses.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I feel like I consider myself an extroverted introvert.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like I feel like I am for sure an introvert, but I can be extroverted.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can switch it on here and there.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I don t consider myself to actually be an extrovert.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that s so fascinating.
2
SPEAKER_03
Do either of you know the poet Aja Monet?
2
SPEAKER_03
I did her chart, and she s similar, where she has, for example, you have your son in one of the most mystifying houses in astrology, which is the 12th house.
2
SPEAKER_03
And it s associated with Pisces.
2
SPEAKER_03
But a lot of people with their son and their 12th actually have this like interesting journey in stepping into public roles because it s actually a house that can be comfortable in the creative incubators.
2
SPEAKER_03
I would conclude this like think about studio versus the stage.
2
SPEAKER_03
I think they re pretty different, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
Like, the register of how you feel, what you can say, you re not feeding off an audience in the same way.
2
SPEAKER_03
How do both of you, like, do you have a preference to stage this?
2
SPEAKER_03
Both are different for both reasons, like... And let s start with you.
2
SPEAKER_00
I would say both are different for both reasons, like...
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I love performing live.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love the stage.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I do think a different type of performance is required when you re like in front of a camera or like on studio.
2
SPEAKER_00
So.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I answered the question, but.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, you did.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
I was just curious if you had a preference or if there was like moments where you like, where would you say in your life you feel the most shy?
2
SPEAKER_00
Mm-hmm like in a group of like five people Because what make what does it make you feel like Like a little bit like double dutch or you re like, yeah Like he can It s like a little bit of a it s not quite balanced.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not four people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s not two people
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I feel that deeply.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s like birthday dinners when it s like, what is happening?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, there s been times where I ve watched Sashir try to say something and everyone is going and I go, wait a minute.
2
SPEAKER_01
She wanted to... It s really funny to watch it happen because you ll go... And then your face... It s really funny.
2
SPEAKER_01
Then I m like...
2
SPEAKER_00
Can I, can I get it in a later time?
2
SPEAKER_00
Maybe I can connect that back to the thing I wanted to say.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I can t.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re way too far gone.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I love asking that because I feel like for some people this or a stage is so terrifying.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like they have no interest.
2
SPEAKER_03
They ll never do it in their life.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then for other people, I think for me for a long time, like intimacy was a hard one for me.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like I can do like a classroom, a stage, but then someone s like, and how do you feel about me?
2
SPEAKER_03
And I d be like, you re doing a lot.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like, you need a backup.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s a lot of pressure, you know?
2
SPEAKER_03
So everyone has different kind of, like, spaces.
2
SPEAKER_03
What would you say is your comfort and then your discomfort?
2
SPEAKER_01
My comfort?
2
SPEAKER_01
It varies.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes I m very comfortable.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m very comfortable in front of a bunch of people.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like a show that s...
2
SPEAKER_01
I get nervous because that s just... If I m not nervous, I don t care, and that s scary.
2
SPEAKER_01
But we went to a party once, and there was a ton of people I didn t know, and I felt very shy, and nobody wanted to talk to me.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was like, but I m wearing fur!
2
SPEAKER_01
And that made me uncomfortable.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I think I m the most uncomfortable when I m the most myself.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like one time I saw big silverware and started crying and I was so deeply embarrassed because like, well, I get so excited about big silverware.
2
SPEAKER_01
What s going on there?
2
SPEAKER_01
What does it mean?
2
SPEAKER_01
I like big things.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, and then.
2
SPEAKER_01
I like when little things are big.
2
SPEAKER_01
I have a pencil lamp in my house.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a big pencil.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m the opposite.
2
SPEAKER_03
I always say that s the most Japanese thing about me.
2
SPEAKER_03
I like little things.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m like, make it tiny!
2
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, I don t like when...
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, I ve cried over doors in front of people, and that s embarrassing.
2
SPEAKER_01
What?
2
SPEAKER_01
I like a door.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m moved by this.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s... Like, I asked a friend to be my friend, and I immediately started crying.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, I... When I m, like, authentic, like, pure, pure Nicole, I find that humiliating.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Great laugh.
2
SPEAKER_02
that was super charged your face your eyebrows i m glad this is being videotaped you re like that would do a quick cut there you re like uh well and this is something you share because you re mercury which is like how you communicate and both of you are mercury ruled people
2
SPEAKER_03
Like, Virgo and Gemini share the ruler of Mercury.
2
SPEAKER_03
Mercury s, like, in the Babylonian, the scribe god.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s the one that would write the fates of man on tablets of stone.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like, it s very funny and literal for both of you to be ruled by the planet of communication, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
Like, for when I see that, I m like, it s so...
2
SPEAKER_03
I sometimes don t want to believe in astrology, and then I m like, it s funny.
2
SPEAKER_03
But you re Leo, your Mercury is in Leo, your Mercury is in Aries.
2
SPEAKER_03
So again, another similarity.
2
SPEAKER_03
Both of you have fire sign Mercuries, but yours is in the house that we were just talking about.
2
SPEAKER_03
And so when you have Leo there, it s really interesting because Leo is like,
2
SPEAKER_03
very grand and dramatic and like playful and it knows how to be on stage.
2
SPEAKER_03
But again, it s in the 12th.
2
SPEAKER_03
So to me, the way I read that is like, and I feel like this in your comedy and in like all the work that you do is you re able to talk about things that other people just like don t know how to talk about.
2
SPEAKER_03
And you make it really accessible and light and funny.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then you also like use yourself.
2
SPEAKER_03
You don t have a problem with like using yourself.
2
SPEAKER_03
But that is a question I have for both of you.
2
SPEAKER_03
I was like, where s that line between, like, useful self-deprecating humor and then moments where you ve realized, like, did I just throw myself away on stage?
2
SPEAKER_00
I... don t.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if I would even consider my comedy self-deprecating.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I throw myself away at all.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s good.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I don t...
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think I just find a way to relate in a different way.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I don t.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think maybe I used to.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it felt so insincere.
2
SPEAKER_00
It felt so like it didn t make sense.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was like, why am I doing this?
2
SPEAKER_00
I love myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
Why am I like I think maybe because I felt insecure about like being pretty and like
2
SPEAKER_00
can an audience relate to a pretty comedian? 
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I was like, well, fuck that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, yes, they can, but I m a human being.
2
SPEAKER_00
Of course they can.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I d find other ways to, like, get in there and relate, but I don t... Yeah, when I was trying to do that, it didn t feel natural or authentic, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t think I m self-deprecating either.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
I don t think you re not self-deprecating, but I think you re very gifted at not making things precious.
2
SPEAKER_03
Does that make sense?
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like you let the audience you do this like generous work of like not these things don t have to be taboo or precious.
2
SPEAKER_03
Does that make more sense?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I just talk about a lot like
2
SPEAKER_01
talk a lot about dating and how awful it is.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I just feel like my experiences aren t just a monolith.
2
SPEAKER_01
I feel like even if you re married, you ve been on a bad date.
2
SPEAKER_01
Even if you re married and have never been on a date, your partner has done something wild that you can relate to that I m saying.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I don t think I ever
2
SPEAKER_01
Talk down on myself or I don t think I m super self-deprecating.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I don t think I don t think so No, I think I view self-deprecating as like a good thing or I m not a good thing But I view it as like a certain labor of like I m gonna use my like I do in astrology a lot like here s a difficult placement I have because I think it s a little bit
2
SPEAKER_03
I don t think it s as generous to start with the other people because you haven t built that trust yet.
2
SPEAKER_03
So it s like, I think there s a generosity in artists when they re like, I m going to be vulnerable first.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then it kind of sets the expectation and you re like modeling what that could look like.
2
SPEAKER_03
Because obviously, if you re a comedian or you re on stage, you re OK.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like, you know, you re not like falling apart.
2
SPEAKER_03
You ve clearly done some work to fortify yourself.
2
SPEAKER_03
But I think my journey has been like I was very like using humor a lot my whole life.
2
SPEAKER_03
and I always found humor tricky because I wasn t always aware, you know, because it s like my way of relating and then people tell you you re good at it.
2
SPEAKER_03
And sometimes the things people tell you you re good at, you re just like, dope, we re fucking going fully there with it.
2
SPEAKER_03
Especially if in other areas of your life you don t feel seen, you know, and then it s like a refining process of like, well, what s funny to me?
2
SPEAKER_03
Like, I know how to make you laugh, but like, how do I want to actually, how do I want to like make myself laugh?
2
SPEAKER_03
Or what, how do I want to define my sense of humor?
2
SPEAKER_03
And then you re all in the spotlight in way more ways than I ve experienced.
2
SPEAKER_03
I m always curious how that works.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like, how do you find a balance between like, OK, this is making people laugh versus like this is what s funny to me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I it has to make me laugh.
3
SPEAKER_00
And yes, first and foremost, like people, I ve done interviews where they re like, you laugh a lot at your own jokes.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m like, yeah, I m not leaving my house at 8 p.m.
3
SPEAKER_00
to tell a joke that I don t think is funny.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can be at home.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I love like I wrote it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think it s really funny.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was probably driving somewhere and thought of it and started laughing and was like, I m going to write it down before I forget.
3
SPEAKER_00
Then it gets lost in my phone for a year.
3
SPEAKER_00
Then I m like, oh, yeah, that was pretty funny.
3
SPEAKER_00
I better tell that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I it has to be funny to me first and foremost, right?
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I yeah, I agree.
3
SPEAKER_03
I don t think I don t think anyone s writing succeeds when they are trying to write it for the audience when they re like, oh, I think that s what they re going to think is funny, as opposed to like it should start with
3
SPEAKER_03
you yeah yeah what you think is funny what you think is truthful and then you know try to find a way to make it relate or not and like if or the audience will come find you but like i think when the goal is i m gonna write something that i think the audience will like i think it i think they can tell
3
SPEAKER_03
this ain t shit.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t like this.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think that s like a very soothing to hear because I think that s always a concern of me like when you get when you step more into like professionalized space of like I just feel sometimes act like nervous about that line of like sometimes both of you are have very intelligent charts and so you become so good at adept at observing like what works
3
SPEAKER_01
and so it s really inspiring to hear that there is that like boundary for both of you that s like yeah I start with myself and then I move outward because sometimes I start with the world and then move inward like my chart is more starting out and moving in and both of you have more like in and then out.
3
SPEAKER_01
Do charts they don t change?
3
SPEAKER_01
That s such a good question.
3
SPEAKER_01
I always say they do because what we call transits means how the configuration of the planets in today s sky interacts with your birth chart.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I always view the chart as like a living, breathing, ever-changing dynamic, if that makes sense.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think about that, I have a lot of clients that are therapists, and they bring a lot of their practice into the reading.
3
SPEAKER_01
And there s a, I can t speak with any authority about it, but there s one they always bring up, which is internal family systems.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve heard of that, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, which is parts work.
3
SPEAKER_01
So it s like there s different parts of you that, and you ask each part what it needs.
3
SPEAKER_01
So they view astrology as similar of like, what does my Venus need?
3
SPEAKER_01
What does my moon need?
3
SPEAKER_01
So they kind of use that framework, and they re like, oh, that s kind of similar.
3
SPEAKER_01
I always think astrology can be, even if you don t believe in it, it can just be a baseline helpful framework.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, okay, Isa said that I have an Aries moon.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, have I been meeting my needs?
3
SPEAKER_01
What are Aries moon needs for me specifically?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like for me, I need to exercise.
3
SPEAKER_01
I need to like take all the hot energy out of my body.
3
SPEAKER_01
I need to like push it out.
3
SPEAKER_01
What do I need?
3
SPEAKER_01
You need to... What does she need?
3
SPEAKER_01
What do we need?
3
SPEAKER_01
Gemini moons, like they need laughter.
3
SPEAKER_01
They need learning.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think here s the interesting thing about Geminis is they re the communicators of the Zodiac, but they also need to be learning.
3
SPEAKER_01
So it s both.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s input, output, input, output.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, if you re not learning something new, if you re not in conversations that are, like, dynamic.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because Scorpio, I m a lot of Scorpio.
3
SPEAKER_01
Scorpios go deep and intense on one thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Geminis don t like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
It needs to be, like, everything s making connections, like a hummingbird.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know how hummingbirds go, and then they re flapping and they re... Yeah, I saw one today.
3
SPEAKER_01
Me too!
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh my goodness.
3
SPEAKER_01
I saw one too and I was like, that s a Gemini.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re so present, but then they need to move.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that freedom of movement is essential to their happiness.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if you entrap them, you re not really honoring their spirit, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
And with a Scorpio, I m kind of the opposite, where if you don t let me go in, I actually start to feel like not myself.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, wait, you re moving on.
3
SPEAKER_01
How do we stay on topic so we can get into it?
3
SPEAKER_01
And Taurus and Scorpio are opposite signs, so Taurus is not water, it s earth, but it s similarly, the gift of Taurus is to stabilize and create resource.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s the farmer, it s the gardener.
3
SPEAKER_01
So Taurus also moves, it moves slowly because it s teaching us a lesson of patience.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just don t see you as a farmer.
3
SPEAKER_00
Metaphor, guys!
3
SPEAKER_00
Metaphor!
3
SPEAKER_00
I just don t see you having a bountiful harvest.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve been pulling a lot of weeds out of my yard.
3
SPEAKER_01
I guess you have.
3
SPEAKER_00
Uh-oh.
3
SPEAKER_01
All right, fine.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re a farmer.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, I always try and bring different archetypes because I feel like Taurus on popular astrology sites is like, sleepy snacks.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s her!
3
SPEAKER_00
That is me.
3
SPEAKER_00
She is so sleepy and loves a snack.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s so wild.
3
SPEAKER_03
Undeniable.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like sleepy, but in classical astrology, Taurus was like the stewards of agriculture.
3
SPEAKER_01
So, again, it s metaphorical.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, my God.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not like literal, but I think Taurus is... I ve dated a lot of Tauruses.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m Taurus rising, so it s like there is a certain kind of recognition.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I feel like we are just sensual beings and we like presents.
3
SPEAKER_01
So, like, with Tauruses, I m like, we re both gonna just, like, be in this moment now, and it makes me feel, like, safe.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because I m like, we both... I m not making you feel bummed by, like, chilling in this nap for 30 more minutes.
3
SPEAKER_00
I always feel bad when she comes to my house, because I don t have any snacks.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s all expired.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, the only time I had something unexpired, it was chocolate, and then I left it on the coffee table, then my dog ate it, and then we had to go to the vet.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, my God, I just saw you on the David Chang Live.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you were all talking about how David was saying when he was single, he didn t have any, like, no plates and no... And then you said you d call someone back who didn t have that.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, no, Nicole!
3
SPEAKER_00
I was, like, screaming at my TV.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was like, don t do it!
3
SPEAKER_00
Hello?
3
SPEAKER_00
Heard you have no plates.
3
SPEAKER_00
Does it make sense that I don t have snacks?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, no, it makes sense that comment, because you re not tripping about... You re not, like, big into cooking or chefing, I imagine.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, it s so hard.
3
SPEAKER_01
It is.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I m similar.
3
SPEAKER_01
Who will I love?
3
SPEAKER_01
You have... Well, so another thing that you have in common, you all have so much... Who will I love?
3
SPEAKER_00
Who will I love?
3
SPEAKER_00
I m like, I have any, throw any question at me.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, when do I meet someone?
3
SPEAKER_00
Who are they gonna be?
3
SPEAKER_00
When, when, when, when?
3
SPEAKER_00
Which paper tells me?
3
SPEAKER_01
I m not gonna lie, you re in a transit right now where there is kind of a Saturn is the planet of like delays and the planet of... But it s not, it s not a cruel planet and it gets a bad rap because everyone s like, Saturn to turn.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it s trying to get you to fortify like what you value and care about and it s in your house of relationships right now.
3
SPEAKER_01
So there is a transit, I m just letting you know, that s still happening around, like, what do you want?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, it s just really trying to get you.
3
SPEAKER_00
Attached to a kind person.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is that true?
3
SPEAKER_00
I would like to be in a relationship with a nice person who s nice.
3
SPEAKER_01
Wait, what does nice look like to you?
3
SPEAKER_00
Nice looks like they like me.
3
SPEAKER_00
OK.
3
SPEAKER_00
All right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Next.
3
SPEAKER_00
Next.
3
SPEAKER_00
What else?
3
SPEAKER_00
OK.
3
SPEAKER_00
They like me.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re kind.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re giving.
3
SPEAKER_00
They listen to me.
3
SPEAKER_00
They let me talk about boring stuff that they don t like.
3
SPEAKER_00
They watch Sonic with me.
3
SPEAKER_00
They watched the Knuckles 6 part of it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, wait, stop.
3
SPEAKER_01
What do you want for Nicole?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, and what qualities in a partner would you want?
3
SPEAKER_03
Mm-hmm.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, someone who is really confident in themselves and like is going to let Nicole shine and not be intimidated by that.
3
SPEAKER_03
And also support her with that.
3
SPEAKER_03
And someone who s really hot.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I love those.
3
SPEAKER_03
And also it makes her laugh.
3
SPEAKER_03
Like they don t have to be a comedian or like super funny, but can make her laugh.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_03
Those are really great.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s nice.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think so.
3
SPEAKER_01
We all start crying, we re like... So you both, you have so many similarities.
3
SPEAKER_01
You both have Mars, which is where sex and anger live.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s where we take initiative, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So it s like the id part of us that s not, it s bypassing this.
3
SPEAKER_01
Both of you have it in Capricorn, which is considered exalted, because Capricorns know how to lay the foundation for things to happen.
3
SPEAKER_01
So both of you have this go-getter Mars.
3
SPEAKER_01
But Mars also tells me, as an astrologer, what would be good in terms of traits for you.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that, to your point, it would be great if you had someone who had their shit together who could be a mountain goat for you and hold things together.
3
SPEAKER_01
So Cap s another Earth sign, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So think of that earthly energy.
3
SPEAKER_01
But then both of you have air Venuses.
3
SPEAKER_01
So that that s also important.
3
SPEAKER_01
So both of you might flirt or be good flirts in terms of like intellectual conversational.
3
SPEAKER_01
That could be a good way that you seduce and attract and like people could be very attracted and turned on by that, like by your ability to make them laugh or like.
3
SPEAKER_01
I always think of Gemini s like the trickster, like they re very clever.
3
SPEAKER_01
They have the gift of gab and they keep you on your toes.
3
SPEAKER_01
So that I think of Venus is more how we flirt, like how we seduce.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it also is good for us and the traits of our partner.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I look more towards Mars.
4
SPEAKER_02
for that.
4
SPEAKER_02
But it s also Venus is like how we feel cute and like how we kind of bring people in.
4
SPEAKER_02
So yours is Libra, which is called in domicile because Venus wants to be in Libra.
4
SPEAKER_02
So it actually does give you like an extra dose of honey or ease in terms of being flirty and like being able to attract.
4
SPEAKER_02
Especially if you re, like, owning your Libra.
4
SPEAKER_02
And, like, Libra s very flirty.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like, Libras don t... They re not Scorpio.
4
SPEAKER_02
Scorpio is, like, after Libra.
4
SPEAKER_02
Every sign corrects the former sign.
4
SPEAKER_02
So, like, there s a corrective element.
4
SPEAKER_02
So, Libras are, like, just, like, cute and beautiful and, like, down.
4
SPEAKER_02
And Scorpios are, like, and now everything s so intense.
4
SPEAKER_02
You know, so it follows each other.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I think you have a really beautiful Venus, Libra Venus.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yours is Gemini.
4
SPEAKER_02
So you both have Air Venuses and then Cat Mars.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then you, your opposite sign of your rising is known as your descendant.
4
SPEAKER_02
And to me, if you want my opinion, I think your rising sign is the most important to look at for relationship compatibility.
4
SPEAKER_02
Not dick, not, like, cute shit.
4
SPEAKER_02
Just, like, long-haul shit if you even want that.
4
SPEAKER_02
And your opposite sign s Pisces.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I, for you, not knowing you at all, would want you to have someone who s, like, stable and has their shit together, but has that, like, deep artistic understanding of the world and sensibility.
4
SPEAKER_02
So, like, someone who is, like, emotionally intelligent.
4
SPEAKER_02
Neither of you have a lot of water.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like, none in your personal planet.
4
SPEAKER_00
You re thirsty.
4
SPEAKER_02
I was thirsty looking at these charts.
4
SPEAKER_02
I was like, but I will say for the record, the nuance of it is you have a lot of water houses and the houses add texture.
4
SPEAKER_02
So you do have water houses, but you, neither of you have like dominant water energy.
4
SPEAKER_02
What does that mean?
4
SPEAKER_02
So water energy is like very emotionally sensitive people who like are pretty wide open and almost like, you know how you meet people and they re like, they can cry quickly.
4
SPEAKER_02
They re like,
4
SPEAKER_02
Do you know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_02
Like people you meet where it s like heart on sleeve, like you re almost like, are you good?
4
SPEAKER_02
That s like a caricature, but you know what I m saying?
4
SPEAKER_02
Like people who are very sensitive.
4
SPEAKER_02
I have a lot of water, but I actually can be, Scorpios can be more like internal and put together.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I actually end up dating a lot of people where I m like, are you good?
4
SPEAKER_02
Like you re so emotional because it helps me like I need help getting that stuff pulled out of me because I if I date someone who s too self-contained then It s so bad for me because then I m like tight.
4
SPEAKER_02
Let s never talk about feelings like I
4
SPEAKER_02
Let s literally never do that. 
4
SPEAKER_02
And then you don t grow, you know?
4
SPEAKER_02
So do you... Have you been in relationships and situations where you feel like you re drawn to that energy of someone who helps you be more emotionally vulnerable?
4
SPEAKER_02
Or is that easy for you to be vulnerable?
4
SPEAKER_00
No, vulnerability is super hard.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I m only attracted to people who are also emotionally unavailable.
4
SPEAKER_00
I love someone who s like, hey, you re cute.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I m going to withhold all of my emotions about it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, oh, I m wet.
4
SPEAKER_00
Are you still in that situation?
4
SPEAKER_00
Are you over that?
4
SPEAKER_00
Is that boring at this point?
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I m through the work of therapy.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m getting over it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Because it can be, at certain point, like my mom always told me this, she s like, you ll just, don t trip, you ll get bored of your own shit.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like one day you ll just be with a dude, you ll be like, I can t do this anymore.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I thought she was right.
4
SPEAKER_02
I feel like sometimes that feels resonant.
4
SPEAKER_02
You re like, nevermind.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like I just need something new, right?
4
SPEAKER_02
So maybe you need someone who has their shit together, but who can like make you feel safe.
4
SPEAKER_02
But that tension of like, they re so into me that I kind of have to like,
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I want someone who s like, oh no, you re so fucking hot.
4
SPEAKER_02
Your voices are crazy.
4
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like you want them to just like be so into it.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like I want someone who like stares at me and I m like, what are you staring at?
4
SPEAKER_00
And he s like you.
4
SPEAKER_02
I think you re gonna get that.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah?
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Where?
4
SPEAKER_02
But I think you have to want it.
4
SPEAKER_02
I think you have to want it, though.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m telling you I want it.
4
SPEAKER_02
Where s it happening?
4
SPEAKER_02
And another thing in your chart is Jupiter, which is the planet of, like, luck and expansion abundance, is in the house of committed partnership.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I m not worried about you, because I feel like you re gonna have
4
SPEAKER_02
So the only tricky thing is that Pisces is the planet right now that s in the like delay, like fortified.
4
SPEAKER_02
And that s where your natal Jupiter is.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I feel like you re probably going to go through a phase of like, what do I want?
4
SPEAKER_02
And then it comes, you know, but it s I think we have to be on it.
4
SPEAKER_02
This is my personal opinion.
4
SPEAKER_02
You can disagree.
4
SPEAKER_02
But I think for me,
4
SPEAKER_02
I had to work on shit to call it in, which sounds really corny, but there was a lot of, like, me indulging past patterns, and that s what I kept getting.
4
SPEAKER_02
I was like, another musician who, like, where do they live?
4
SPEAKER_02
And I remember being on a date, like, around the same time with my current boo, and I was, like, really into him.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, I have to ask.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like, in my head, I was like, I have to ask him.
4
SPEAKER_02
I was like, where do you live?
4
SPEAKER_02
And he was like, he, like, didn t have, like, a home.
4
SPEAKER_02
Or like, you know, artists are shady about it.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, I can t do it.
4
SPEAKER_02
I need a person with a home.
4
SPEAKER_02
I get it.
4
SPEAKER_02
I just broke then and there.
4
SPEAKER_02
I was like, not another tourist with no home.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like, I need a home.
4
SPEAKER_00
Do you believe in Mercury retrograding?
4
SPEAKER_00
I do.
4
SPEAKER_00
Why is it always in retrograding?
4
SPEAKER_00
It s actually not.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, so it does.
4
SPEAKER_02
It retrogrades a lot for little amounts.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then there s other planets that retrograde way longer because they re further in the solar system and they re slower moving.
4
SPEAKER_00
But why does Mercury make everything funky?
4
SPEAKER_00
When we were traveling, Mercury was in retrograde.
4
SPEAKER_00
And?
4
SPEAKER_00
Bad things kept happening to me.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
So do you believe in it?
4
SPEAKER_01
I do, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
I usually am aware of it after the fact.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, oh yeah, my phone wasn t working.
4
SPEAKER_01
I had terrible communication with people.
4
SPEAKER_01
This thing happened.
4
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, they re like, oh, retrograde happened last week.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I m like,
4
SPEAKER_01
That was it.
4
SPEAKER_01
That was it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Nothing to do with me.
4
SPEAKER_02
I actually do.
4
SPEAKER_02
I think that s a healthy way to relate to astrology is sometimes after the fact, like, I think sometimes when people get so obsessive with, like, what is happening right now, they end up subconsciously, like, responding prematurely.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it s like, you can t control.
4
SPEAKER_02
You know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_02
What are you really gonna control?
4
SPEAKER_02
Like, if you re on a trip, there s probably so many things that are happening outside of your control.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like, the flight gets delayed or...
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, we had one.
4
SPEAKER_00
I they canceled my ticket and then I bought another ticket.
4
SPEAKER_00
But then I stayed in their system as a double ticket.
4
SPEAKER_00
And they kept being like, why did you do that?
4
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, no, Delta, why did you do that?
4
SPEAKER_00
I hate wine right now.
4
SPEAKER_02
Travel has been like gotten so rough.
4
SPEAKER_02
It really has.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t even want to blame Mercury for that because it s a hot mess.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
What how would I I m curious what this is what I wanted to ask is like how do both of you relate to astrology?
4
SPEAKER_02
Because I feel like it s very big in L.A.
4
SPEAKER_02
So you must be like, you know, hearing about it a lot.
4
SPEAKER_02
So what.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
How does it sit with you?
4
SPEAKER_01
I feel like I keep trying to learn about it, but there s so much even listening to you talk.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
how long is it gonna take?
4
SPEAKER_01
How many years of my life do I have to dedicate to understanding all of this?
4
SPEAKER_01
And so I tried to focus and be like, I ll just care about the moon.
4
SPEAKER_01
And even still, I don t know all the things I wanna know about the moon.
4
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, so I think I am tangentially aware of stuff, but some people will say things like, oh yeah, you re Gemini rising does blah, blah, blah.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, mm-hmm.
4
SPEAKER_01
There she goes, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
I believe you.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I agree with that.
4
SPEAKER_02
I think it s I mean it takes years.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but I love that I think that s always like a dope recommendation I give for people is like the way I learned was very much like parts like just focus on the Sun Mm-hmm for a while.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah I think there s like such a temptation to know everything at once and if that s not useful and not sticking then it s not useful because it s like You can t even remember it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah
4
SPEAKER_02
How did you study for this?
4
SPEAKER_01
Did you go to school for this or how deep is it?
4
SPEAKER_02
There s this one book that s like kind of one of the main playbooks called Ancient Astrology by Demetra George.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it s like a thick book like this.
4
SPEAKER_02
And every single chapter has like homework.
4
SPEAKER_02
where you have to, yeah, so you really move, at least for me, I move at the speed of my comprehension.
4
SPEAKER_02
So it s like, if I get stuck, then I find other resources.
4
SPEAKER_02
There s this guy, Chris Brennan, with the Astrology Podcast.
4
SPEAKER_02
I just guested on his show and he was like such an inspiration for me because he does free, really, really rigorous, like YouTubes,
4
SPEAKER_02
And I just am so, I just love people who provide free resources, because I was learning at a time where I went part-time, trying to pivot my life career, and it s so expensive right now.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, what if you don t know if you want to commit to school yet?
4
SPEAKER_02
You re just at that, like, kind of Gemini stage of wanting to, like, just look at a lot of different things.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I feel like there s not a lot of resources sometimes at that stage in your life, when you re just curious.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, definitely.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I just want to shout him out because I feel like I m just so grateful that he has so many amazing resources.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I started seeing a lot more astrologers of color, which is something I never saw.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I, again, was like, this is like a white, weird world.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I don t feel like there s a space for me, if I m honest.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then I started seeing like younger astrologers.
5
SPEAKER_00
in 1986, so I m not young-young, but I didn t see, like, anyone who looked... I don t need anyone to look like me, but just, like, people I know.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
I agree.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s like, I don t need to see me, but, like, someone other than the standard is lovely.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, someone you can relate to.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s all I m asking for.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, I m not someone who s like, I need an Asian Uruguayan.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, no, I m not...
5
SPEAKER_00
And I actually feel like that s even like whiter than white because that s like acting like that s all I am anyway You know what?
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean?
5
SPEAKER_00
I m like, I m I m way more than that And actually that s what got me into astrology was like I was never a sci-fi kid.
5
SPEAKER_00
I was never a Harry Potter or a
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t know, like, for some reason that stuff didn t really work for me or, like, land for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
I was always the person who liked documentaries and, like, I like real life.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then astrology, for some reason, kind of felt like that because it s the solar system.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s science-y.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I was like, oh, this shit s cool.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s like, what?
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_00
For me, it just made sense that there s some mysterious relationship between the planets and us.
5
SPEAKER_00
I can t say that it s perfect or that I can speak to it in this exacting way.
5
SPEAKER_00
But to me, it s very intuitive.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like if my sister lives in Mexico and the farmers still use moon phases to farm, you know, so for me, I m like, is that why we do the daylight savings for the farmers in Mexico?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, for your farmer right here.
5
SPEAKER_00
We have a farmer among us.
5
SPEAKER_00
I need it.
5
SPEAKER_00
In fact, I need to save my time.
5
SPEAKER_00
There is a farmer here.
5
SPEAKER_00
The farmer is just here.
5
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_00
For me, it just made sense.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, animals mate.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s even, this is a weird one, but there s, like, heightened violence around full moons and, like... Really?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and, like, police.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s more patrol, you know?
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s scary and weird.
5
SPEAKER_00
But, you know, there s, like... I would love to think that the police department, like, they re spending so much money because they have an astrologist being like,
5
Full moon, everybody!
5
SPEAKER_00
Full moon!
5
SPEAKER_00
Yo, when you start researching it, it s crazy.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, from the Roman Empire, they would hire astronomers and astrologers as, like, essentially staff to help them kind of predict the destiny or, like, wield power with, like, the heavens and the cosmos.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I ve found, like, movie, like, L.A.
5
SPEAKER_00
film, like, directors are hiring astrologers to figure out when to release.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, people just don t share it because it s stigmatized.
5
SPEAKER_00
Um, I would say it s the least stigmatized it s ever been.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, I wish it were more stigmatized.
5
SPEAKER_02
Mike Scorpio s like, this is all not niche enough for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
We gotta start gatekeeping again.
5
SPEAKER_02
I know, that s like my dark shit.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m like, but I just think it s interesting.
5
SPEAKER_02
I talk a lot.
5
SPEAKER_02
I feel like I talk a lot about this, but like in schools, I feel like it s like, oh, if you re into the planets, like here s something planet adjacent, like you didn t know the term for stand up.
5
SPEAKER_02
And it s like, why?
5
SPEAKER_02
Why don t we tell kids about creative things that they can do?
5
SPEAKER_02
And why don t we send them to trade schools?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
And then teach them a little bit about business.
5
SPEAKER_02
They can have their own business.
5
SPEAKER_02
We always need plumbers.
5
SPEAKER_00
We do.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
we do need plumbers.
5
SPEAKER_00
And we were not, we didn t have any of that.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think that s why, for me, I took a risk so late in life.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because I m towards rising, I m very practical.
5
SPEAKER_00
So, like, my sense of security is literal and spiritual, but it s hard for me to take a risk.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, I m like, okay, what s the plan?
5
SPEAKER_00
Where s the check coming from?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, it s hard for me to just leap into the abyss.
5
SPEAKER_00
Which I think is a dope thing, because sometimes people do that, and then they re fronting.
5
SPEAKER_00
They re, like, living in this scary place, and then on Instagram, they re like,
5
SPEAKER_02
I m okay!
5
SPEAKER_01
What was your, like, secure job before this?
5
SPEAKER_01
Or, like, what did you leap from to do this?
5
SPEAKER_00
So, I was in arts education for a long time at this organization called You Speaks.
5
SPEAKER_00
And we worked with, like, middle and high school age young people across the Bay Area, mostly public school, teaching poetry.
5
SPEAKER_00
And the premise was really, like, poetry and writing is, like, a conceit to make young people feel
5
SPEAKER_00
a little more comfortable because high school, middle school is really tough.
5
SPEAKER_00
And especially in schools right now that are like underfunded, they don t feel like they re learning things that are relevant.
5
SPEAKER_00
We all know, you know, it s the same shit.
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SPEAKER_00
And so we would provide a space for them to like, a lot of schools in California, a lot of the kids are ESL.
5
SPEAKER_00
So like, we re like right in your language.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, so it was kind of that it was really like developing voice and developing community.
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SPEAKER_00
And like poetry is kind of the vehicle, if that makes sense.
5
SPEAKER_02
I love that.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
Middle school and high school is hard.
5
SPEAKER_02
I couldn t believe when they took away recess.
5
SPEAKER_02
I was like, I remember walking into sixth grade and looking at the schedule being like, so when do we go outside?
5
SPEAKER_02
Don t you think we need recess?
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, absolutely.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
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SPEAKER_02
Go outside for a minute.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
Some of the best days I ever had was we had a skate gang and I need to I really need to bring it back.
5
SPEAKER_02
But we would just like roller skate around outside.
5
SPEAKER_02
It was the best.
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SPEAKER_02
It was like fun.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot that.
5
SPEAKER_02
Like,
5
SPEAKER_02
adults need to play like playing is fun.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we do.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I feel like high school is brutal, though, because even you have I think we re like older ish where we had to do like the standardized exercise things like the I don t know if we had like jump rope for heart.
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SPEAKER_00
We had run a mile like we had all those standardized things that are not fun.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s not about play.
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SPEAKER_00
I
5
SPEAKER_02
had a like I just remembered we were somewhere and I was like oh yeah in high school for PE we like climbed and learned how to like belay and we re doing obstacle courses in the sky and I that s fancy yeah yeah but also terrifying and I m fat and I had I ve been fat my whole life and I was like so this very small white lady is gonna
5
SPEAKER_02
is going to hold me.
5
SPEAKER_02
What if I fall down and she gets sucked up and there s a slingshot?
5
SPEAKER_02
So I didn t do it.
5
SPEAKER_02
So I just like stood around outside.
5
SPEAKER_02
I was like, but what about me?
5
SPEAKER_02
Can I do something on the ground?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
Oh, my God.
5
SPEAKER_02
Shout out to, yeah, to Middletown High School South.
5
SPEAKER_02
I wonder if it was like a
5
SPEAKER_01
an army pipeline.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, oh, you like, like traversing in the air.
5
SPEAKER_02
We ll send you overseas.
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SPEAKER_02
You could traverse.
5
SPEAKER_02
Wait till you get to Manila.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God.
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SPEAKER_00
Maybe.
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SPEAKER_00
That s like fully.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
But that s why I was in youth education.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then I hopped to independent documentary film, which is I m still like three days on Bay Vac Media in the Bay, which is like we connect independent filmmakers who don t really have a formal background to like editors and producers and resources.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so it s adjacent.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s like helping people who are like, I m creative, but I wasn t necessarily encouraged to do anything formal with it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Make the steps, take the steps.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, definitely.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I still kind of want to do that.
5
SPEAKER_00
I want to do like, I don t know how you all, but I like I like doing a bunch of stuff.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
We both do a ton of stuff.
5
SPEAKER_02
So do you do readings for people?
5
SPEAKER_02
How do they get in contact with you for that?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have a website at ISANAKA.com.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s my name, Isa Naka.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I am pausing the momentarily because I m currently doing a podcast called Stars and Stars with Isa, where I read celebrity birth charts.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s just, yeah, it s, you know, I m trying to focus on that show.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s my first season.
5
SPEAKER_00
So, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you have any advice, any advice for a season pod?
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_00
Have fun.
5
SPEAKER_02
Have fun, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you re really good at interviewing.
5
SPEAKER_02
I felt like you were interviewing us, too.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and I was like, oh... I wanted to.
5
SPEAKER_02
I wanted to.
5
SPEAKER_02
Wait, oh, here s a good question that Judith wrote.
5
SPEAKER_02
Which pairings are most likely to be enemies?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like sun sign or rising sign?
5
SPEAKER_00
Judith?
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, whatever sign you feel like it is.
5
SPEAKER_02
I love to guess.
5
SPEAKER_00
Whatever you think it is.
5
SPEAKER_02
Right.
5
SPEAKER_02
Oh, wait.
5
SPEAKER_02
Also, I have another question after that.
5
SPEAKER_02
OK, you ever do like the charts of like a murderer and then be like, yeah, saw it coming?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, not that I have the same chart as a lot of murderers, but I feel like I ve done charts of people I don t like, and I m like, why is it so dead on my... Like, me and Drake have very similar charts, which is a little upsetting.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, at some point, I m like, oh, no.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I ve had moments of silence with myself where I look up someone s chart and I m like...
5
SPEAKER_00
Okay, I think so here s an interesting thing I could say I can t I m bad at answering like enemy questions But when you have the same when you when you re in the same modality, there s an un there s like a we re the same We re kind of similar.
5
SPEAKER_00
We understand each other non-verbally, but there s what s called squares in astrology where there s like like losers I
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God, that was funny to me.
5
SPEAKER_00
But there s squares where, like, you re similar but you re different enough and you re taking that for granted because you feel, like, the same.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I don t know how you feel, but I feel like in relationships and friendships that happens where you re like, I love you so much that when something comes up unexpectedly where you re different on it, it s heartbreaking because you re like, I thought we re... It s almost like when you start getting a new friend or dating and it s like that first disappointment happens and you re like,
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, oh.
5
SPEAKER_00
You are different.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, and it s like this kind of grief, but it s also good.
5
SPEAKER_00
And for me, when I m doing Sinistry, which is like when you re looking at two charts, I don t like when it s too harmonious, because it s going to create some boredom.
5
SPEAKER_00
Ours is not too harmonious.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s not.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s not.
5
SPEAKER_00
But it s not too different.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s not too different.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s for sure.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I think I don t know how you.
5
SPEAKER_02
When did you ever have a moment where you re like, oh, you re different on this than me?
5
SPEAKER_01
you must have i mean i guess but like i guess i never thought that we were the same like i was i wasn t like we ve been matching up this whole time
6
SPEAKER_01
and this one thing, like we re pretty... That was pretty good.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s pretty fucking funny.
6
SPEAKER_01
We re pretty different.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you re right.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, we re very similar in a lot of aspects, but I guess we re not so similar that I was like, what?
6
SPEAKER_01
Wait, we think different on this one thing?
6
SPEAKER_01
I think we think different on a lot of things.
6
SPEAKER_01
But do we?
6
SPEAKER_01
You re just constantly surprising me.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh!
6
Nicole!
6
SPEAKER_00
I have an example, like my current boo, you know, so we met online and I feel like it s interesting to be 37, well, we met when we were 36, but you ve been on earth so long without this person.
6
SPEAKER_00
So when you re getting to know someone, you re dating, it s like, how much context building can you reasonably do in like a month?
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s gonna take some time.
6
SPEAKER_00
And so when you re into someone and you re vibing, you re like, and then we started to realize he s from like a military family.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m from a really like leftist family.
6
SPEAKER_00
So he would drop things and I d be like,
6
SPEAKER_00
And we d be like, huh?
6
SPEAKER_00
And instead of it being, because I think I m more mature, instead of it being like gasping, I was like, cool, that s interesting.
6
SPEAKER_00
Let me think about how difference is exciting.
6
SPEAKER_00
But I think in the past, I ve always dated people with my same political orientation, so it felt new.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was like, oh, are we gonna have to do the work?
6
SPEAKER_00
Cool.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s an example of like me having a moment of like, oh, we re very different.
6
SPEAKER_02
OK, we do have to wrap it up and I m having trouble because we have five minutes and I never looked at the clock.
6
SPEAKER_02
So I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_02
I think we did.
6
SPEAKER_02
But how do we do that?
6
SPEAKER_02
I mean,
6
SPEAKER_02
Is there a... See, this is why we don t have any advice for you.
6
SPEAKER_00
We re literally like... I m so glad I printed papers, because I hope everyone can see the way you re all like, so... What?
6
SPEAKER_00
So when I see this, I m thinking... It reminds me of how, like, no matter what age we are... Where can people find your podcast?
6
SPEAKER_02
And is there anything else you would like to promote?
6
SPEAKER_00
No, I think I m just trying to work on that one.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
6
SPEAKER_00
So yeah, so you can listen to stars and stars with Issa.
6
SPEAKER_00
We have a weekly release wide release.
6
SPEAKER_00
So anywhere you get your podcast, Apple, Spotify, whatever, blows your boat.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it s every Tuesday.
6
SPEAKER_00
And we have eight episodes out right now.
6
SPEAKER_00
We have Kamau Bell, we have Aja Monet, we have Gia Tolentino, we have some really exciting guests coming up.
6
SPEAKER_00
And yeah,
6
SPEAKER_00
It s just fun, and we basically use astrology as a prompt.
6
SPEAKER_00
So if you re not into astrology, definitely listen.
6
SPEAKER_00
Don t worry, we won t bite.
6
SPEAKER_00
And if you re into astrology, obviously it s for you.
6
SPEAKER_02
And then do you have social media that you would like people to follow you on?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s starsandstars.isa.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s a long one, but you re capable.
6
SPEAKER_02
It ll autofill.
6
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
6
SPEAKER_00
You re capable.
6
SPEAKER_00
You can do it.
6
SPEAKER_00
You got this.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then mine is Isa Naka.
6
SPEAKER_00
My last name is Nakazawa.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s very long.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I ve shortened it to Naka.
6
SPEAKER_00
How do you pronounce it fully?
6
SPEAKER_00
Nakazawa.
6
SPEAKER_02
I feel like Japanese... Nakazawa is pretty and fun.
6
SPEAKER_02
And don t you dare shorten it for people with dumb tongues.
6
SPEAKER_00
That sounded low-key like we re gonna start a spoken word poem.
6
SPEAKER_00
And don t you dare shorten it.
6
SPEAKER_02
Well, it s funny because people will try to shorten Sashir s name, but she ll always be like, it s Sashir.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s Sashir.
6
SPEAKER_02
I didn t say her name for a long time because I saved it wrong in my phone.
6
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, we have to end this.
6
SPEAKER_02
Thank you so much for doing this.
6
SPEAKER_01
Thank you so much.
6
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
6
SPEAKER_01
This was so much information.
6
SPEAKER_01
It was really cool.
6
SPEAKER_01
It was very valuable.
6
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
6
SPEAKER_01
I can t wait to learn little by little.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, truly little.
6
SPEAKER_02
Is there a smaller book you can recommend?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_00
Channy Nicholas s book is really amazing.
6
SPEAKER_00
Small?
6
SPEAKER_00
It s small.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like a mid-sized book?
6
SPEAKER_00
It s a mid-sized book.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like you can put it in your toe and it s not heavy.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s not hurting your shoulder.
6
SPEAKER_00
We love that.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it s just very helpful.
6
SPEAKER_00
Great.
6
SPEAKER_00
All right.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thank you so much for being here.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thank you so much.
6
SPEAKER_01
We also have merch at podswag.com slash bestfriends.
6
SPEAKER_02
We also have transcripts for our new episodes.
6
SPEAKER_02
Check them out on our show page at Earwolf.
6
SPEAKER_02
Lastly, don t forget to rate, review, and subscribe.
6
SPEAKER_02
That is the easiest way to support this show.
6
SPEAKER_02
See you later.
6
SPEAKER_02
May the stars be with you.