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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we talk about our favorite rock and roll flute solos, we evolve our show to include the ASMR category, and we tackle a listener-inspired topic about lead generation and how to make your leads not suck.
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Hey, everybody, it s Brian Neal, co-host of the Advanced Selling Podcast with my good friend, Bill Kasky.
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Kind of screwed up the end there.
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It was awful, but that s OK.
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Didn t know where I was.
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So we re here every Monday, the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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Glad that you are here.
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If you re a new listener, please go to the LinkedIn group on LinkedIn for the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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We re pressing in on 11,000 members there.
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And Bill and I are starting to be a little more active in that group.
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Mess around, play around in there.
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And we ve been on the road.
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We re going back on the road.
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Bill, I think we re going to Cleveland.
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Are we?
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I m going to Cleveland.
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You re going to Cleveland?
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Good.
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Which I m really excited about.
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Great.
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Yeah, good listener.
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Good opportunity for us to get out there.
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So if you want us to come see you, send us an email.
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Listener at advancesellingpodcast.com.
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And put it in the subject line, come see us.
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And we promise you, we will give you a great show with a lot of usable ideas and things like that.
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Well, today s podcast is brought to you by PandaDoc.
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So Bill, you know, you and I both love music.
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We like music trivia things.
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This is less of a trivia thing, but got me thinking about something.
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Uh, and again, it s going to call back a little bit to some sixties and seventies type music, which I know our young listeners probably could care less about, but I was listening to a song and it made me think about a question that I never knew the answer to.
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So I m gonna play the song for you.
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Okay, here it goes.
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I could listen to that the whole episode.
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Isn t that beautiful?
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Isn t that wonderful?
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Do we really have to talk?
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I just hit mute, didn t I?
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Don t put me in charge of the board.
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Isn t this nice?
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It s nice.
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Are you going to ask me who it is?
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That wasn t part of the deal.
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You can guess it if you want.
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I think it s Marshall Tucker.
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It is Marshall Tucker.
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You are correct.
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You are correct.
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What I love about that, though, and it got me thinking about it, what are some famous flute solos in rock music?
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Because that s what opens up.
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Exactly.
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So why would we give away the flute?
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So that s a really good one.
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Do you have some other flute solos?
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And I wonder if our listeners would have some fun, famous flute solos from the rock and roll days.
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Well, there s one band that s really popular with the flute.
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Do you know that?
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Jethro Tull.
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Jethro Tull, Ian Anderson, really famous guy.
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Two for two, guys.
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You re really on this.
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What about Edgar Winter?
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I know that that was a hard, metallic rock, but it seemed to me like they cushioned that with some flute.
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Maybe not.
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Jethro Tull is the obvious one.
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Yeah, there s a song by the Beastie Boys to bring it into a little modern era called Sure Shot.
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It s got a wonderful flute solo in there.
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OK.
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Men at Work from the 80s, they have the little flute in their action there.
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So, oh, here s one, Boz Skaggs, Lowdown.
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Lowdown has a flute solo in there, doesn t it?
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But don t you wonder, you re making rock music, and you re like, OK, I think this is where the flute solo should come in.
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And it s not one of those instruments that you re kind of thinking, you know.
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Or did the writer, the person who created the song in the first place, were they an avid flutist?
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That was probably the same person who wrote all those things.
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Is it a flutist or a floutist?
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Floutist.
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I don t know.
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Flutist?
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I don t know.
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Floutist.
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Oh, that s really funny.
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That s good.
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So famous flute solos, if you have those, put those up in the LinkedIn group, and then we ll start talking about sales here in a minute.
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It s really good.
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Hey, man, it s so nice to know where your stuff is, isn t it?
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You send it over in the email, and you have no idea if people opened it.
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So go check it out.
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All right, topic today is lead generation.
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Yeah, topic today was informed by an email that we got from a gentleman named Forrest.
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And let me tell you, let s see if I can read it here really quickly.
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Forrest says, I love the podcast.
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I discovered it about a month ago, and am listening to three to five of your shows per day.
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So that s cool.
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He goes on to talk about his sales background, which was business to consumer.
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And now it s B2B.
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And he is struggling with lead generation.
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And they did $60 million last year, and they never had a salesperson.
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Now they ve hired him as a salesperson.
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And so he s wondering if he should go to a service that that Generates leads for the company a contract service or should he do it himself?
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Should he pay to set appointments?
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Whatever you want to call it leads appointment so Brian and I talked a little bit about this dilemma that companies have about
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Well, what is the lead generation system?
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Is it up to the salesperson, which it is in most companies?
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Or is it up to an internal person like an SDR or some type of inside sales staff that generates leads, makes calls for appointments?
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Or do you go outside externally and find an agency that does that?
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Yeah, and that was the question, I think, that Forrest asked us was, he s thinking about going to an outside agency.
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And Bill and I both have opinions about that, because we ve seen some outside agencies.
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Of course, with our podcast and our experience in sales coaching, we get talked to by those people, because our prospects could be theirs.
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And I have not seen a lot of those be very effective.
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I think Bill, you have the same deal.
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And some of them are, and they still exist.
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So I m sure there s some give and take there.
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But the question always comes up is, who s responsible for it?
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And how do I know what s going well?
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Because what happens, inevitably, is salespeople, by nature, I m talking to you listeners, and you say, my company just doesn t give me enough leads.
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You don t give me enough leads is what you start with.
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I don t get anything.
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So then marketing, or this outside agency, or the SDR BDR person, starts to give you leads.
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And then what do they say, Bill?
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These leads aren t very good.
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These leads suck, is what the leads suck.
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They re not good.
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And so somewhere in there, there s some issue or some problems with lead generation itself.
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So we wanted to kick around a little bit the idea of what should you do as a salesperson?
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How should you think about lead generation?
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What should you do about it?
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No matter what system you re in, whether you re doing it yourself, your internal marketing team or BDR SDR group is doing it, or an outside agency.
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We want to coach you on how to be a good,
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user of lead generation systems and methodologies.
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So can I start with a premise?
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Please.
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Let s start with a premise.
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I love premises.
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Someone needs to do it.
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Can we start there?
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Yes, yes, yes.
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Because many times, the sales professional, I know we get busy, and we have our current clients that we re taking care of, and we have prospects that we re engaged with and in process with.
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But if your lead generation stops and no one s doing it, that s the worst of all scenarios.
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You can find fault with external, you can find fault with internal, you can say, look, it s really difficult for me to do it, but someone has to be doing it.
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Someone s got to be paying attention to it.
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Maybe not 40 hours a week, but a certain number of hours per week, you need to be out there in the market and getting away from obscurity where nobody knows who the hell you are or how to find you.
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For sure.
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So someone needs to do it.
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So do you want to start with,
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Do you want to start with when we are doing it ourselves?
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Sure.
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Yeah, that s a good place.
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And maybe talk about what that looks like.
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And then we ll move quickly, though, into the other two.
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Because I think we ve talked a lot about prospecting on this podcast.
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We have.
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I don t think you can ever talk about it too much.
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So what would be one or two things that you would coach people on today?
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Yeah, my first element I wrote down, and I think this would actually
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What I say transcend the three, I wouldn t say that, would I?
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It would go over all three mechanisms.
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Would it be all of them?
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Is that you all need to have the same data around your ideal client.
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You have to have the exact same data.
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as we say, playing off the same sheet of music.
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God, I hate when I use bad cliche things, but I couldn t sing it out of the same hymnal or the same hymn book, book, him, him book.
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I don t know.
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Let s make sure we re singing out of the same hymnal or I hate when I say those things, but I just did.
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So there s that I Sam, I don t, I can t think of another coming out.
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I know like
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I should not be saying this.
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Totally.
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I used to say that s like a shot of Jägermeister in college, right?
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As it s going down, it needs to be coming right back up, like a shot on a string, I used to say.
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Let s see, so make sure that you, your BDR, SDRs, and or your agency or your marketing team, you re all all working from the exact same ideal client definition.
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And what we teach around here, we talk about dividing it into two sections, demographic and psychographic, good, better, best.
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That should be a document that you hand somebody.
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And if you don t have that created, you will always struggle with lead generation.
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You ll get in this deal where the marketing team thinks they re doing
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great and giving you things, and then you ll have your own definition of what it is.
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But you have to have common ground on the ideal client, number one.
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I would say also, and this kind of goes to what you said, Brian, I think there s got to be a consistent, and I want to use a word here that I have no clue what it means, but I love it when I hear it.
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And I think I could appreciate it enough to be able to understand it.
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And that s the word ethos.
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Oh, yeah.
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Yeah.
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I can feel it.
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I ve been wanting to use that word since I got up this morning.
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Why don t we do an AMSR episode?
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OK.
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This is the ethos.
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You do it.
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Can you hear that?
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I ll do it on your mic.
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We re now into AMSR here.
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Okay.
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ASP.
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Sorry.
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So ethos is the, it s just the soul.
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What is the soul of this lead generation?
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Is it only about generating a massive number of discussions?
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Because if it is, that s where that s the first.
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point of failure.
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Is it all about numbers and not about serving prospects and not about really trying to understand if they have a situation that we can help them to bring our value to bear on?
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Or is it just about numbers?
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If it s just about numbers, you re going to get crappy leads.
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You just are.
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And it s the same with you.
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When I go out and just need numbers, I get crap.
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You do.
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You do.
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Not that the people are crap, although some...
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But it s more that I m just not filtering anything through.
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I m not filtering leads through any kind of a prism that allows me to say, this person really has a problem.
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I think you can help him, Brian.
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Yes.
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That s really good.
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Really, really good.
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All right.
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Here s another bit of advice.
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I m kind of tired and edgy today.
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I feel like I m kind of edgy.
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I don t know.
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Maybe it s coming through.
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So your advice comes from edgy politics?
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Yeah, I don t know.
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Because I wrote down, get over yourself.
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Now, here s what I meant by get over yourself.
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Everyone, it s like salespeople feel like they re entitled to perfect leads.
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It feels that way to me sometimes.
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So what the salespeople will complain about the leads, no matter where they come from, even if it s their own, they ll say, well, the lead s this, lead s that.
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I m like, it s not your job.
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Your job is to take the pool of leads that you get and discern which ones are the good and the bad.
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And in the medium ones, it s your job to create a compelling case, connect with people that turns a medium bad lead into a good lead into a customer.
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And there s a process to do that.
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If you listen to the podcast, we talk about all the time.
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That, to me, is really, really important.
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If you want to argue that the company should give you perfect leads, you re running the risk of saying, I don t need a sales team.
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Because if I can get the lead generation mechanism so good, I don t need sales people.
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Bill s recording himself.
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His recording system just broke.
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His gorilla tripod thing that you put on a phone for a camera just fell off.
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You should put the legs straight up like it s dead.
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Yeah, it was working for about 10 seconds.
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So that idea that you re not going to get great leads, and what do you mean by that?
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Are you telling me you re lazy?
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You know what I mean?
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It s like, well, I want to work out, but I want the workout to be easy on me.
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Can we just walk instead of run?
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Can we bench just the bar and not put any weights on it today?
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But I still want to be really strong, personal trainer, but don t make it hard on me.
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Well, that s what Forrest said in his email, is that they did $50 million a year with no salespeople.
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So obviously, they have some kind of a lead generation or customer acquisition program.
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But I think the second thing there is, I agree with you.
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And I even said, just relax.
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Just allow people to send you somebody.
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Maybe there was something that was said, or maybe they planted a seed that you re now going to have to harvest.
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And don t make judgments on these things.
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Who knows?
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Like I always use the Sam Walton.
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You never know when Sam Walton walks into your booth because he looks like an old man.
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Well, he s obviously not old anymore.
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He s passed.
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But in the old days of the hardware shows where he would go around all these places, he was still Sam Walton, but nobody recognized him because he wasn t a brand.
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And he would come in with an old hat, old scruffy shoes.
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But that was Sam Walton.
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He had a checkbook that was worth billions of dollars.
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You don t know.
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You don t know when someone comes in your booth.
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You don t know when someone s on the phone.
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Their brother could be the CEO of blah, blah, blah.
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So just treat, I think we judge quickly sometimes, and I m guilty of that.
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But just treat people, and same with your internal people.
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Just allow them for some failure.
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Just allow some mistakes.
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I love it.
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Got something else?
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Well, I kind of moved to the internal part here, where we have inside people.
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I think it s really critical that we constantly communicate what we are trying to accomplish, we as sales professionals, to this team.
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And my daughter was in a organization, still is actually.
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She was in SDR.
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And there wasn t a whole lot of communication between the salesperson who was the recipient of the lead and the SDR that was creating it.
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And so a lot of times, there would be this back and forth, this tension of, like you said, Brian, these leads aren t very good.
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And we re saying, well, wait a minute.
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They said they had an issue, and we threw it over the wall because we thought they did.
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So if there s not communication, there s a lot of room for just kind of confusion.
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Yes.
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That s really good.
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So I would say that.
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Another element of the internal, and this might go to all three of them also, but I thought about, where I see leads become bad leads is through lack of effort in following up on them.
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So what happens oftentimes is, let s say an SDR sets a demo for me.
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So I m an AE, SDR sets a demo.
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So I ve got this lead that comes in, and the person no-shows.
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I m instantly like, well, they didn t show up, so it s their problem, that sort of thing.
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Where we ve got as a sales team, we have to play a little marketing here, too.
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We have to campaign people a bit.
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We can t just say, oh, yep, sorry, they didn t show up.
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Or if this is the, so I know this agency that I know that works really well, the person I m talking to there, she tells me that their biggest problem
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is that the salespeople don t know how to nurture a lead into a close, into a sales process.
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They just call them once, and they wait two weeks, and then call them again.
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And you can t do that.
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And then blame the lead suck.
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You have to put effort into this.
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And so that s another thing.
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I d have you look at how much effort do you have?
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What kind of campaign do you run?
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When you re given a lead, how often does that person hear from you and in what ways?
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You have to campaign them.
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Yeah, that s good.
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That s good.
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So Brian, one of our new sponsors, Outreach, talks about this very thing.
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And the notion is that you wish you could have done more this month but didn t have the time, tools, or processes.
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Outreach was the leading sales engagement platform that supports sales reps and their managers by making it simple to humanize and personalize communication at scale.
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I love that.
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Humanize and personalize communication.
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automating the soul-sucking manual work, and dramatically increasing the productivity of all revenue-generating teams.
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You can check them out at outreach.io.asp to chat, set up a chat, and receive a free copy of their new book.
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That s outreach.io.asp, turning your Salesforce into a revenue-driving machine.
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I love that.
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So I had another one here, which is probably more focused on external lead generation contractors or agencies.
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I want to know exactly what they re saying.
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I would want to hear it.
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Now, this is not the VP of sales.
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I m talking about every salesperson should hear that, because your future is in their hands.
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I can imagine if Oprah had a lead generation
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agency that she was working with.
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Do you think she would be a stickler for knowing what they were going to say?
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Yes.
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I d say so.
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She would want to have the calls recorded.
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She would want to coach them.
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She would want to take them into her mansion and talk about all the different things they should be saying.
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She would also want to give them a depth of understanding of the real value of the product too.
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She would see, I don t know why I picked over, but
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She would see that this is more than just calling somebody up and trying to get a lead.
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This was about them representing her company, and it is for us too, representing our company in the market.
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And if we don t have any kind of a depth of understanding of the value we bring, then it s going to be shallow.
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And that s why the leads suck.
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No kidding.
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Because there s a shallow understanding by the lead generators.
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And so the deeper you can get that understanding, and the better you can coach them, and I assume that
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Most of these lead generation companies record their calls.
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If they don t, they should.
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So you can go back and listen.
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And if there s a problem with how your lead generation person is depicting your value, call them up.
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Talk to them.
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Chat with them.
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Coach them.
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Don t just keep bitching and moaning about the bad leads.
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And I think I m saying the same thing.
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If you re going outside to an agency, is my last point here on this, is you ve got to think like you re one team.
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You cannot think like they re our agency that gives us leads, and then they hand them to us, and then they re out and you re out.
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It has to be seamless, I think.
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It has to be one, and think of it that way.
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and then own the whole thing.
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Like you said, if the external team is not performing well, don t make it their fault.
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Make it our fault.
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And then we ve got to figure out how to fix it and make it better.
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Now, you might come to terms with it.
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You can t make it OK.
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But that has to be there.
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There has to be this partnership level, high integration.
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Usually not.
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Usually, internally, I would say, if I were a salesperson who was getting leads from internal or external, and I got a really good lead, and they turned into a sale, I probably would call that person up who generated a lead and say, let me tell you what happened to this.
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We appreciate this.
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This customer is going to benefit from our value, not just we sold them stuff.
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They re going to benefit because of your effort on the front end.
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Really good.
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So if you have a lead generation problem, and you want to bring Brian and I in, or I, and I, or I, or you have any kind of sales issues that you want to talk about with us, we are happy to either show up at an event, or we can do it virtually.
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You can start the ball rolling by sending us an email at listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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Come see us in the subject line, and we ll make sure that one of us or both of us get back with you.
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We can only promise that somebody will get back with you.
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It could be both of us.
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It could be all three of us.
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Who knows?
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But let us know if you have something coming up in the next six months to nine months sometime this year.
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We d love to start the conversation.
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And until next time, bye.