0
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Yeah, I tell you what though, what would make life easier for me tomorrow is if I could just go into the back room and 3D print me a set of new teeth.
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I d be down for that.
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What s the teeth thing going on?
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You got a toothache lately?
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This is the art of charm.
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Learn everything you need to know to crush it in business, love and life.
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The art of charm is where ordinary guys become extraordinary men.
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Welcome to the Art of Charm, I m Jordan Harbinger.
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The Art of Charm brings together the best thought leaders, teachers, and personalities to teach you how to be a top performer in life, love, and at work.
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Imagine having a mix of experienced mentors teaching you their expertise, packing decades of research, testing, and tough lessons into a curriculum.
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We may not have all the answers, but we do have all the questions.
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Make sure to stay up to date with everything going on here at AOC and get some stuff we don t or can t share on the show by signing up for the newsletter at theartofcharm.com.
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If you like what you hear on the show, come hang out with us on the blog.
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We get really in-depth on these topics and you can engage with the AOC team there as well.
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Or if you re new to the show and you want to find out more about what we teach here at The Art of Charm, you can go to the website.
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We ll email you our Fundamentals Toolkit that covers topics like body language, nonverbal communication, dating, attraction, persuasion, business networking, public speaking, negotiation, and a whole lot more.
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Get some info from us now so you can plan ahead.
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Looking forward to meeting you here at AOC.
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Today we re talking with Steven Kotler.
0
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He s been on the show before.
0
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He s the author of The Rise of Superman, and he s written a book called Tomorrowland, where we talk about a lot of crazy, all-over-the-place type stuff.
0
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It s a little bit of an off-topic episode, which is why it s a bonus.
0
SPEAKER_02
Things like human bionics, the science of mind uploading, in other words, uploading your memories.
0
SPEAKER_02
If you ve seen Black Mirror, it ll be kind of like that in the future, kind of nuts.
0
SPEAKER_02
Future of evolution, genetic engineering, vision implants.
0
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everything from future of food to the future of, you can print your own teeth, dammit, so check out this episode with Stephen Kotler.
0
SPEAKER_02
So the last time we spoke, it was about the rise of Superman and a little bit about the Flow Genome Project.
0
SPEAKER_02
What s the latest on that?
0
SPEAKER_02
Because obviously that s fascinating for anybody who wants to perform at a high level.
0
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Everybody wants that to be the next magic pill for us to get more shit done in more epic ways.
0
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So everything s rolling along with the Flow Genome Project.
0
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We ve been doing tons and tons of trainings, both kind of online and in-person trainings, and we re raising seed capital right now for the first Flow Dojo, the world s first flow training and research facility, and we re hoping that ll be done within a year or so.
0
SPEAKER_04
So the Flow Genome Project is moving along.
0
SPEAKER_02
That s so great.
0
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you ve been writing about flow and future, and I want to get into both of these topics here as much as we can sort of mesh them together coherently, but is flow something that s involving some of the new technology that you ve been writing about, or is this simply, I use the word simply loosely here, is it simply psychological technology?
0
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There s two answers to your question.
0
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One is, you know, I look at my career as, I work on disruptive technology, right?
0
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Sometimes it s external technologies, things that are in the world, synthetic biology, genetics, that sort of stuff.
0
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And sometimes it s internal technologies like flow, right?
0
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And so to me, I m looking at the same thing, and they of course cross over.
0
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One of the reasons that the Flow Genome Project can exist is
0
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A lot of measurement tools have come out of the smart health revolution, the exponential growth in neuroscience and biotechnology.
0
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Biotechnology, if you want to talk about accelerating technology, is now moving at five times the speed of Moore s Law, so it s doubling in power about every four months.
0
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Along the way, we re getting all kinds of great imaging technologies and things that allow us to peer into the brain kind of during moments of flow, during moments of ultimate performance and figure out what s going on for the first time.
0
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And once we get that information, we can very easily work back to, hey, what are the triggers?
0
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How do we produce this?
0
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And how do we get more of this in our lives?
0
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So, yeah, it s absolutely kind of dovetailing and crossing over.
0
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And I see the Flow Genome Project sort of in both camps.
0
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That s super cool, and I love the fact that you re kind of peering into the future on all this technology, and I guess for me, one of the things that I m most curious about is who s doing most of this futuristic research, and where does it sort of skew?
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I know that as Americans, we re sort of heavily researching things like drugs, medicine, and health.
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How much are we putting into the health end versus how much are we putting into the weapons and sort of military industrial stuff?
0
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I am not an expert on the weapons and the military industrial stuff.
0
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I m really not.
0
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But I will say, you know, if you want a pretty good look at what s going on in the cutting edge, see what DARPA s funding, right?
0
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The big think, you know, the research arm of the Defense Department.
0
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they are definitely out there on the cutting edge and they re pretty good kind of bellwether for what that looks like and you know what s realistic because they re always putting out calls for proposals which means hey we think this is real we want to give scientists money to develop this right so it s a really good look at you know where we think
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we are right at this moment.
0
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Well, what are you most excited about?
0
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I mean, that s probably a good place to start.
0
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With the most background on this, what are you most stoked on?
0
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So the two things, let s start with bionics, because bionics is really exciting to me, and let me kind of tell you why, because my interest isn t just, hey, science fiction is becoming science fact, that s obviously fascinating, that s kind of what shaped this book, Tomorrowland, but I m really interested in what happens
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to culture, right?
0
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That the massively transformative effect this stuff is having on culture and bionics is a great example.
0
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When I, the piece that s in Tomorrowland, right?
0
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I went and hung out with David Major Roselle.
0
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He s the world s first bionic soldier.
0
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So he s got an absolute bionic ankle.
0
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And just to like put it in perspective, when we were hanging out, we were in a
0
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Boulder, Colorado, and it was a cold winter day, and it was raining.
0
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There was snow on the ground, but it was raining.
0
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And we re walking around, and we re talking.
0
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We come to a four-lane, basically highway, not highway, but four lanes of traffic.
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And we re lost in conversation, and Major Rozelle is talking.
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And we come to this traffic-y intersection, and, you know, me, the able-bodied guy, stops, because that s what you do.
0
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Major David Rizal just like sees the four lanes of traffic, jumps across the first lane, freezes, darts left, darts right, jumps across another car, freezes, does the same thing, jumps over a snowbank and onto the far side.
0
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So when I say we ve got real-life bionic ankles, he went full-on Walter Payton across this road on a bionic ankle.
0
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We have real-life bionic ankles.
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Now, that was a handful of years ago.
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Today, right now, 50% of the human body
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replaceable by bionics.
1
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That is startling.
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That s an astounding, astounding fact.
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We ve got mind-brain interfaces so you can, you know, quadriplegics, paraplegics can move their real-life bionic limbs just by thinking about them.
1
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But where this stuff gets really interesting to me is where it kind of impacts all of our lives.
1
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So next year, 2016, is when we re going to start seeing the first bionic
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bionic exoskeletons.
1
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These are like strap-on bionic braces.
1
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You got a bum knee, you can strap on a bionic brace.
1
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And what a bionic brace does, an exoskeleton does, is it puts energy back into the system.
1
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So if you think about it, as we walk forward, right, we re constantly taking energy from gravity and using, and turning it into momentum.
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And, right, it s this cycle, and it allows us to move.
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If you can t do this, you get exhausted when you walk, right, which is sort of what happens with prosthetics.
1
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and it s the difference between prosthetics and bionics.
1
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Strap-on bionics means anybody who s got a bum leg can now, you know, it s literally like strap-on revitality.
1
SPEAKER_00
And where this gets really interesting is if you think about old age, right?
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The number one complaint in old age is decrepitude.
1
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It s I lose control of my body.
1
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I can t do what I want to do.
1
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The reason the retirement age is 65 years old
1
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One is death rate, two is that s when we start to lose a lot of mobility.
1
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We are about to have the largest generation in the history of the world retire in America, and they re retiring because they re losing control of their body, and that s about to go away.
1
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Me as a 48-year-old athlete, I care about this stuff because it s gonna allow me to go longer, and me as a citizen of the world, wow, this is gonna change the entire economic structure and how long people work and all that stuff, I care about that stuff as well.
1
SPEAKER_01
So how long do you think it s going to be before this stuff gets into the mainstream where it s affordable for just the everyday person?
1
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Because I m a 43-year-old programmer and I definitely would like a little extra juice.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, see, that s what s so interesting about this stuff, because there s two things on this.
1
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One, all this stuff is progressing exponentially, right?
1
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So when you say it s doubling in power for the same price every four months,
1
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that basically means it s getting more powerful and cheaper at the same time, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
So this stuff is becoming very affordable, and what we re seeing with the military and bionic limbs, right now they ve discovered that, and I don t have them, the numbers are in the book, I don t have them on top of my head, but they re saving so much money giving soldiers bionic limbs, I think these things are about $80,000, maybe a little bit more, but they end up over the life of the limb saving so much money because people can get up, they can go back to work,
1
SPEAKER_00
People who lose limbs and things like that, they tend to gain massive amounts of weight because they re much more sedentary, et cetera, et cetera.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it addresses so many problems, the VA is already paying for these things.
1
SPEAKER_00
So they re already, one way or another, affordable to the common man.
1
SPEAKER_02
Excellent, so that s really cool.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it seems like it s cheaper to replace parts of people that are simply mechanical in nature than to try to find somebody and retrain them to do a job, and in this case, especially manual labor, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
What you re seeing in the military at this point is soldiers with bionic limbs are getting sent back to their command.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re getting sent back to combat, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
It s exactly what you re talking about.
1
SPEAKER_02
Now, in terms of replacing these parts, are they mostly joints?
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I m imagining bionic stuff like, you know, I think hook hand or nice little bionic ankle or a knee or even the leg.
1
SPEAKER_00
Some of it I believe they re stretching the term.
1
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Because I think on a certain level, you know, we can now, this was as of I think last week, we can regrow teeth from stem cells.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I m so in for that one, please.
1
SPEAKER_00
We re getting closer to eyes, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
So like, we ve already grown several, you know, major organs and in laboratories as well.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that stuff is coming online.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, the line between biology and technology, right, is getting thinner and thinner and thinner, I guess.
1
SPEAKER_00
So where you re drawing this line, what you re calling what these days is a little
1
SPEAKER_00
It s tricky to parse, but it s coming.
1
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I m always hesitant to make predictions because it s the easiest way to be wrong.
1
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Just judging from where we are, how many companies there are, how much money is moving in these directions.
1
SPEAKER_00
exponential growth curve, I think we re gonna start seeing major impacts with this stuff within the next 10 years.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, you wanna talk about Aubrey de Grey and the longevity stuff, and that s a much more radically far out timetable.
1
SPEAKER_00
But this stuff here now, deployable now, hitting the market 2016, already affordable.
1
SPEAKER_02
I just wanna know, you know, how much crap I m gonna have to replace on Jason as he ages so that we can maintain him as a producer.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, I need some new ears first.
1
SPEAKER_00
Myself, I ve broken over 80 bones, so I need this stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know it s coming and I m gonna need it.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_02
One of the things I found super interesting in the book and in some of the articles you ve written that I ve seen elsewhere is mind uploading.
1
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Jason, have you heard about this, mind uploading?
1
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It s like ridiculous.
1
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Yeah, yeah, I was reading about it in his book today.
1
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It s pretty fantastic stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, the beginnings are the interesting part.
1
SPEAKER_01
Can you talk about that?
1
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Like how it s like just the first version of taking like a chip in the head and going from there?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, well, so first of all, let s put some context around it, right?
1
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Mind uploading, which is, it s the idea of storing self on silicon, basically uploading part of your consciousness, your personality, something onto a computer and preserving it forever, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
And it is by far, I think, the most far out concept in the book, except that the reason it s in the book is back in 2000,
1
SPEAKER_00
British Telecom, right, the largest telecom in Britain, that big research arm, put a researcher on this project and he had a very scaled down version of it where he decided that he could record all the inputs from the census, so the big five census, and then with a powerful enough computer, basically the kinds that are coming online today actually,
1
SPEAKER_00
He could run a pattern recognition system, and then he just needs a playback device in his mind to recreate conscious experience.
1
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Now, nobody knows if this would actually work, but here s the thing.
1
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When he started the project, we could already record all the inputs from our senses.
1
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That was already feasible back then, which is why he started the project.
1
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He knew, because of Moore s Law, that the computers are gonna get powerful enough
1
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to kind of create the information processing bit in the middle, and we re probably, you know, we re closing in on when that would be now.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the playback device, they imagined, is essentially a virtual reality device, not unlike the Oculus Rift.
1
SPEAKER_00
So, this incredible, far-out, ridiculously futuristic scenario is based on technology that is actually here to denounce.
1
SPEAKER_00
Will this approach work?
1
SPEAKER_00
We don t know, and he doesn t think they ll get it solved till 2025.
1
SPEAKER_00
Ray Kurzweil famously says,
1
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2049, 47, 49 in there is when this will start happening.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think it could be a little farther out.
1
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But what s so interesting to me is once again how it impacts culture.
1
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If you just think about this from kind of an issue of faith.
1
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All five of the world s big religions use the kind of threat or promise of the hereafter.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re gonna steer morality and shape behavior in this world.
1
SPEAKER_00
So what happens to kind of theological morality in the face of technological immortality?
1
SPEAKER_00
It sounds like an absolutely ridiculous question, but if you re just kind of looking at the rate these things are moving, somebody s gonna have to answer that question seriously in the next century.
1
SPEAKER_01
Definitely, no, just the fact that we will be living theoretically forever either in silicon or a new 3D printed body because the genetic stuff you re talking about is insane.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well let s, you know, you don t even have to get so fancy on it, like here s the crazy part, life extension technology and biomedicine and medicine and even sanitation, these things are moving so quickly that every day you gain five hours of life expectancy without exercise.
1
SPEAKER_02
Nice, good.
1
SPEAKER_00
Every day.
1
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Now back to Steven Kotler.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s pretty crazy, right?
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s ridiculous.
1
SPEAKER_02
And that s, of course, not me particularly growing that much longer.
1
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Simply technology s evolving fast enough to do that.
1
SPEAKER_02
This is like some Skynet stuff going on here, for sure.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I think the mind-uploading stuff, it sounds really cool and fascinating, but my thought is with that, you have to figure out a way to go through 100 years of someone s life and find the useful stuff, not just having a VHS tape of
1
SPEAKER_02
everything they ve ever done, 99% of which is completely irrelevant to the rest of humanity.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so let me back into that, because the idea here, and I didn t cover it, is that when they were developing this, what they wanted to do is they wanted to preserve genius, right?
1
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The idea is, hey, you got a guy like Albert Einstein and Richard Feynman, when they die, we lose the way they think,
2
SPEAKER_01
their consciousness, and both guys were capable of incredible intuitive leaps.
2
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So if you could get inside their head and see how they actually thought up these things, you might be able to learn their intuition in a sense.
2
SPEAKER_01
Here s what I think about that.
2
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When they asked the guy who invented television what he thought it was gonna be used for, all he could think of was education.
2
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Nailed it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think we re looking at the same thing here.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s being developed for education.
2
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No way that s where it s gonna stay.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I m thinking I can download Jordan s Brain and watch that Simpsons episode that I missed that I know he watched.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, imagine if they re looking for perpetrators of a crime or some sort of historical reenactment of an event, you can take people that didn t even know what they were seeing and you can say, well, this person was in that city around that time, let s see if they saw this plane crash or this event or even this historical moment.
2
SPEAKER_01
The way this goes so sideways, if you really are interested, there s a guy named Richard K. Morgan, he s a science fiction writer,
2
SPEAKER_01
a late model cyberpunk, wrote a book called Altered Carbon, which is his first one in a series of five or six, that really looks at what happens to 300 years from now if mind uploading becomes possible.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s just say his version of the future is the darkest thing I ve ever seen.
2
SPEAKER_02
Basically, everybody s eyes are being hijacked by the authorities.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, it s armies of people whose you have the consciousness of a soldier and their bodies become expendable because you can regrow bodies over and over and over.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it gets horrifyingly militaristic and really peculiar, really, really fast.
2
SPEAKER_01
And his version of the future is very dark.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yikes, yeah, I mean, the idea of being able to regrow body parts or bodies is great, but once you start viewing humanity as completely expendable, although, I don t know, how do you feel about this, Jason?
2
SPEAKER_02
I feel like if I were old and, or even now, if someone was like, hey man, you know, you re looking pretty rough, your legs,
2
SPEAKER_02
You ve sat a lot, you ve got a little extra midsection going on, and some of your hair s starting to gray.
2
SPEAKER_02
Do you want a 19-year-old body?
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, just pop your mind in there.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t know if I d be like, no.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think if it was pretty standard procedure and low risk, like LASIK, I would just say, sure, yeah, why not?
2
SPEAKER_02
Here s a few grand, or whatever it costs.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m sure it ll be more pricier than that, but like anything, it ll become affordable in no time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, I think one of the chapters in Stephen s book here is the world s first genetically engineered creature.
2
SPEAKER_00
So what I would prefer is a new type of human that is not as frail and maybe has, you know, teeth like, you know, like a T-Rex that you could download me into.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think that might be a little more fun.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m pretty sure they would never trust you with that.
2
SPEAKER_02
I hope they wouldn t.
2
SPEAKER_02
But how about a body that doesn t need to sleep or go to the bathroom?
2
SPEAKER_02
That would be a huge waste of time.
2
SPEAKER_02
Or just goes once a day and sleeps for five minutes.
2
SPEAKER_02
That would be great.
2
SPEAKER_02
I d get so much done.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I feel like that s not totally impossible, especially if you start limiting the functionality
2
SPEAKER_02
of the body to just the things that you really are good at, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, look at Stephen Hawking.
2
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His body needs to survive, and I m sure he d have won a little bit mobility, but I don t think he needs to be a professional athlete or anything to do what he s best at.
2
SPEAKER_02
As much as we have different body types now that are suited to different things, you might actually be able to choose what that is instead of just kind of getting stuck with it by virtue of that s your genetic makeup.
2
SPEAKER_02
Does that make sense?
2
SPEAKER_02
Is that in line with your research, Stephen?
2
SPEAKER_01
That s an interesting idea.
2
SPEAKER_01
I actually had not,
2
SPEAKER_01
thought of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, this is covered kind of from both ends in Tomorrowland.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, on the end, you guys just brought up, which is we looked at the look at, you know, kind of the world s first genetically engineered organism, right, which is a mosquito to fight malaria and dengue, can t transmit disease.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s already, you know, being introduced into the wild.
2
SPEAKER_01
So this is the first kind of creature birthed entirely in somebody s imagination that is taking up residence in reality.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that s one end.
2
SPEAKER_01
The other end is if you kind of look at what s going on in reproductive technologies,
2
SPEAKER_01
More and more we re taking control of our genome and right this is I look at the future of evolution in tomorrowland as well and this is you know the big picture thing and it s not just me saying that a lot of people have kind of come out and said hey over the next 20 to 25 years we re going to totally take control of our genome and I don t know the t-rex teeth thing is interesting because I have argued for a really long time and I think
2
SPEAKER_01
that usually what tends to drive a lot of this stuff forward, even though people don t look at it, is subculture, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And every subculture that comes along has this need to outdo the previous generation.
2
SPEAKER_01
So, you know, hippies had long hair and colorful clothing that gave way into kind of punk rock piercings, that gave way into body modifications and tattoos, that is now giving way into biohacking, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
People are implanting real life electronic devices into their bodies at this point.
2
SPEAKER_01
it s going to give way to people with cat eyes.
2
SPEAKER_01
And there was a story in Harper s a bunch of years ago about a guy trying to grow real life eagle wings out of his shoulder.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, there s a whole, there s a punk rock ethic there that I think will carry this forward.
2
SPEAKER_01
To your point, on a different level, you know, we are, in terms of taking control of our genome,
2
SPEAKER_01
People think this is gonna turn us into some kind of like huge Gattaca race of super children, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
But the truth of the matter is, if you talk to the experts, everybody s pretty clear that, yeah, we re gonna fracture this species, we re taking control of our genome, but it s what the children reproduce are going to be as endlessly creative variety as there are people on this planet, because people are endlessly creative.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I think your idea about custom-specific bodies or custom-specific things,
2
SPEAKER_01
I can see that emerging.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I grew up with Bruce Sterling s Shaper Mechanist series, and I think about how the human race fractured into the people who were trying to get genetically better and the other side of the human race that was trying to get better through mechanics.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it seems like you cover both of that in your book.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a little bit longer out, but it s really interesting to see how these different things are starting to come actually to fruition now.
2
SPEAKER_00
as the technology is growing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Listen, people don t realize also that like, you know, what they call techno-physio evolution, and that s Nobel Laureate Robert Vogel s term, and he was the first person to notice it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, over the past 200 years, we have taken control of so much of our evolution that, you know, our body mass has doubled.
2
SPEAKER_01
Our internal organs are incredibly more robust than they used to be.
2
SPEAKER_01
longevity has quadrupled.
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SPEAKER_01
These are evolutionary processes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like we re already doing this, that five hours of life expectancy you gain every day, that s an evolutionary hack, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
We are starting to insert ourselves into the equation at a really fundamental deep level.
2
SPEAKER_02
Are there obvious problems that can go wrong with this?
2
SPEAKER_02
Because I feel like whenever people attack things like genetic engineering and stuff, it s mostly done from kind of a, but it s not natural, but then these are the same people who go and get tons of tattoos and like, you know, laser eye surgery.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, so let s talk about genetic engineering for half a second.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I just want to make two points.
2
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One, from a practical point of view, you actually have a choice.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can either have genetically modified food
2
SPEAKER_01
genetic engineering and things like that, or you can stop having children.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s an either or.
2
SPEAKER_01
People want to fight against, you know, GMO crops and all that stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s unnatural.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s blah, blah, blah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Great.
2
SPEAKER_01
Stop having children.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re going to keep having kids.
2
SPEAKER_01
We don t get to throw this technology out.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it s really honest to God.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s that simple.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because there won t be enough food.
2
SPEAKER_01
There won t be enough food.
2
SPEAKER_01
And this fantastic technology.
2
SPEAKER_01
Here s the other thing that most people don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can take an organic
2
SPEAKER_01
tomato seed.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can put it at the bottom of a nuclear reactor.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can bombard it with radiation to mutate it randomly.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can then take it out of the reactor and grow it and sell you the tomatoes that result and they are organic.
2
SPEAKER_01
If I do the process in a laboratory with precision so I know what I m changing and what I m not changing, it s genetically modified.
2
SPEAKER_01
Are you kidding?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, I mean, really?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, are you honest to God?
2
SPEAKER_01
Are you kidding?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s totally backwards.
2
SPEAKER_01
And most people don t get that.
2
SPEAKER_01
They don t understand what is actually organic, what is not organic.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like what we re talking about here is first the third problem.
2
SPEAKER_02
Right, and so what people are saying right now in their head is, yeah, but my tomato seeds aren t in a big nuclear reactor getting bombarded and mutating, but they are.
2
SPEAKER_02
Every time something s exposed just to the elements in general, especially solar radiation, which everything that s ever been outside ever is exposed to, it s getting that, it s just at a very small level, and it s not done with precision like you said.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s the equivalent of throwing it into a microwave for a half second, and then it comes out, and you plant it, and you would eat that tomato,
2
SPEAKER_02
What s the difference?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s literally like by, it s intelligent design, literally.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, but provable because I can show you video footage of me designing it, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s why, you know, it s the real intelligent design.
2
SPEAKER_02
Right, right.
3
SPEAKER_02
Let s talk a little bit about how non-scientific people are pushing back against this.
3
SPEAKER_02
You talk about the stem cell fight and the politics that surround that.
3
SPEAKER_02
Can we get into that a little bit?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, so the bigger picture on that, right, is besides all the technology, right, that we re talking about in the book, in Tomorrowland, the two things that I m also looking at is, like, first of all, who are the people who are inventing the future, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because they re all maverick outsiders as a general rule.
3
SPEAKER_01
None of these people came out of the mainstream, which tells you something very interesting about innovation.
3
SPEAKER_01
Also, the second half of that is the book especially in terms of life extension technologies and stem cells.
3
SPEAKER_01
I give you a historical overview of the fight because that s the other thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Even with like science and technology, it s like history, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
We remember the victors.
3
SPEAKER_01
We very rarely remember the war.
3
SPEAKER_01
The invention of the future is a war.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, make no mistake, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
You d have to look no farther than stem cells to see that playing out.
3
SPEAKER_01
It does get really crazy, and the interesting thing is, you know, I m looking close up at issues that were on the table in the late 90s.
3
SPEAKER_01
All of those same issues are still on the table.
3
SPEAKER_01
They still haven t been resolved, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
The technology is accelerating exponentially.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re growing teeth.
3
SPEAKER_01
But our arguments are still 10 years behind.
3
SPEAKER_01
And on a certain level, if there s a big kind of moral to the book, one of them is that you can t get out of the way of the future.
3
SPEAKER_01
Good or bad, it s coming for you.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if we don t start massively upgrading our lives and our systems and our organizations, we re going to be in a lot of trouble.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not slowing down.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s certainly not slowing down because we don t want it to speed up or to continue.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, we can t really resist that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, you know, that s the other thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
People are really fancy about why you can t turn off technology, why you can t put the genie back in the bottle.
3
SPEAKER_01
you know kevin kelly who founded wired uh... well i think it s brilliant wrote up great book on what technology wants me his argument is basically look technology is another form of life and it s got its own wants needs and desires and procreate sounds on the cat need has a very good point but i don t think we have to go nearly that deep
3
SPEAKER_01
I always think of technology as the promise of an easier tomorrow.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s very rarely actually an easier tomorrow, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Your life is far busier and more complicated today than it was before you had an email and a cell phone and all that, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
It s harder, but it was the illusion of an easier tomorrow that made you download all those apps, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Technology is nothing more or less than the promise of hope, and you can t stop hope.
3
SPEAKER_02
Awesome.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I tell you what, what would make life easier for me tomorrow is if I could just go into the back room and 3D print me a set of new teeth.
3
SPEAKER_02
I d be down for that.
3
SPEAKER_02
That s always been my hope for the future of all of this stuff, is I m like, I wanna be able to take a pill and get some new teeth.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, there you go.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the teeth pill.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t think that s all that far out, actually.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, there s a lot of different things to want.
3
SPEAKER_01
That may be a reasonable thing to want.
3
SPEAKER_00
Alright, back to Steven Kotler.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have a question for you in terms of us being able to genetically modify the food, to be able to grow body parts, to be able to upload our mind.
3
SPEAKER_00
If we re able to upload our mind, do you think we ll be able to then download things to people?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like say you have a kid who had a really traumatic upbringing, crappy parents, they died in some sort of tragic accident.
3
SPEAKER_00
You think that you might be able to go, you know what, let s give you a happy home.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let s give you a childhood in which you had plenty of parents caring for you.
3
SPEAKER_00
let s impart a skill set.
3
SPEAKER_00
I guess it s how it sounds like The Matrix, actually.
3
SPEAKER_00
But do you think we would actually be able to impart things like that?
3
SPEAKER_01
Just let me give you a look at where we are today with stuff that s a little mind-blowing.
3
SPEAKER_01
And this is research done by a team that we partner with at the Plo Genome Project.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s done by Advanced Brain Monitoring, and they work with EEG.
3
SPEAKER_01
teamed up with the Navy in a group, so with submariners, you re gonna take a bunch of guys, you re gonna put them together six months at a time, and they re gonna have to live in close quarters, they re gonna have to function as a team, and how they work as a team is critical, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
And the Navy has this problem, which is they can t figure out if a team s good until they put them together and send them to sea for six months, and then you ve already got problems, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So by measuring, by specific kind of EEG work,
3
SPEAKER_01
within two days of trial simulations with the submariners, they could determine with an incredibly high degree of accuracy who on the submarine crew was going to form a perfect team, who were the bad apples that they had to weed out, and who were the guys they had to train up in terms of skills.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s where we are today.
3
SPEAKER_01
So we can basically see into the future, six months into the future, team building through kind of
3
SPEAKER_01
Precognition using EEG.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s today.
3
SPEAKER_01
As far as crazy mind downloading matrix learning or overwriting memories, all those kinds of questions.
3
SPEAKER_01
The matrix learning stuff, there was a team out of Boston that actually took it a step forward a couple years ago.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was a very small scale something and it wasn t like I know Kung Fu, but they actually did manage to impart a skill.
3
SPEAKER_01
Can t remember more about the experiment.
3
SPEAKER_01
As far as overriding memories and things like that, we re, you know, we re starting to, there s a lot of different ways to kind of poke at that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s not unreasonable in the future to say that we re going to do that.
3
SPEAKER_01
If you want to talk about things that scare me, that scares me.
3
SPEAKER_01
Why does that scare you?
3
SPEAKER_01
When I can go Manchurian candidate on you in a race years of your life.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s starts to cross all kinds of lines that even, even worry me.
3
SPEAKER_02
Little total recall action on that.
3
SPEAKER_02
What are you most hopeful for out of all this new technology that s coming out?
3
SPEAKER_02
What are you looking at the most as the most exciting and what do you think the audience should be paying attention to as the newest stuff that s coming out that will affect their lives?
3
SPEAKER_02
So let me frame this a little bit.
3
SPEAKER_01
One of the things we ve been hearing a lot about lately is holy crap, robots and AIs, artificial intelligences are gonna take my jobs.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if Oxford had a report that says, hey, 45% of all American jobs are vulnerable to replacement by robotics and AI over the next 25 years, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
And that does look to be the case.
3
SPEAKER_01
So the big question right now is where are the new jobs gonna come from?
3
SPEAKER_01
The thing that I m paying the most attention to right now is virtual reality.
3
SPEAKER_01
And three reasons.
3
SPEAKER_01
One, I think there s an internet-sized opportunity sitting inside of virtual reality.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I say that because
3
SPEAKER_01
Every information technology we ve seen so far, whether we re talking computers or iPhones or apps or whatever, or the internet itself, there s been huge, massive emergent opportunity that we did not see coming inside of it, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Much, much bigger than we ever expected.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we expected a lot from the internet, by the way, when it first showed up, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
But much bigger than we ever expected.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the other thing I was gonna say about this is we already know, back in the 90s, the first person in history made a million dollars inside of Second Life.
3
SPEAKER_01
So Second Life is probably the first semi-virtual world, and we already learned, I think it was 1996, there s economies inside of these places.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, China s kind of on the cutting edge of that, right, with the people who just work in sweatshops, earning money to get like a sword for some game that they then sell.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re seeing we re seeing, you know, gamers in Asia who don t want to leave the game.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re seeing this already.
3
SPEAKER_01
The second thing that s happening that is really interesting about virtual reality is.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s a distributed educational platform, totally customizable to individual learners, completely distributed, deep immersive learning, and you can actually, in virtual worlds, you can produce flow very easily.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can do it in video games, but it s usually sort of a low-grade dopamine feedback loop, but still it makes video games 96% addictive.
3
SPEAKER_01
So flow, which we know from the research that DARPA did,
3
SPEAKER_01
you know, accelerates learning 250 to 500%, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
If you can create a flow-based learning video game, you ve got totally addictive learning, right, because you ve got all five of these really addictive neurochemicals, feel-good neurochemicals flowing through your system, totally addictive, totally distributed, because it s in a virtual world, anybody can log in from wherever, all you need is your Oculus Rift or whatever, and it can be individually customizable.
3
SPEAKER_01
So not only can we make money in there, it solves
3
SPEAKER_01
big educational problems, so there s a reason to move it forward as well.
3
SPEAKER_01
Simultaneously, what I just said about flow, we can, virtual worlds can become very, very, very addictive, and not just addictive, when we talk about these feel-good neurochemicals, flow isn t just the best I can feel on the planet, it s also the most meaningful, purpose-driven state.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you re talking about not just these dopamine reward loops, where you turn off doom and you sort of, like, it was a great high while you were in the game, but afterwards you feel a little nauseous, because it s not very meaningful,
3
SPEAKER_01
Suddenly it s addictive in me.
4
SPEAKER_01
And this stuff is coming right now.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, we re looking at it.
4
SPEAKER_01
All the technology is showing up.
4
SPEAKER_01
So over the next three to five years, we re gonna have a really solid technology, both virtual reality and automatic cognition.
4
SPEAKER_01
So those are the things I m looking at right now.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think that s the most exciting.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I also, you know, from an entrepreneurial perspective, it s one of the things that I think is most interesting.
4
SPEAKER_00
So that actually, going from sci-fi, what you just talked about reminded me of the Runcible book from Neil Stevenson s Diamond Age.
4
SPEAKER_00
So what you re saying is moving that from an individualized learning platform into virtual reality, and then that s the next big thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think that s pretty cool.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think we will end up with Neil Stevenson s book, and we talked about, Peter and I discussed that in abundance, right, and how AI is going to enable that, and I think we ll see it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I just think we ll do it in virtual reality, with live interaction with like avatar teachers and things along those lines, because it s better learning.
4
SPEAKER_03
Awesome, this is great.
4
SPEAKER_03
Is there anything you want to leave us with that we haven t asked you that you re like, I can t believe they didn t talk about this yet?
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, you know, I want to leave everybody with something very practical.
4
SPEAKER_01
because these are very highfalutin ideas and they re cool and they re great to think about, but this is the really interesting thing, kind of just as an entrepreneurial level, which is a lot of these technologies are starting to develop user-friendly interfaces.
4
SPEAKER_01
The reason this is a big deal is it allows everybody to play.
4
SPEAKER_01
So think about the internet, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
It was invented in the 70s, and the first 20 years it was around, it was only used by computer scientists and by the military, because you essentially had to be a computer scientist to play on it, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
In 1993, Mark N. Pearson comes along, and he creates Mosaic, the very first web browser.
4
SPEAKER_01
It becomes the Netscape web browser.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s the first user-friendly interface for the internet that you can build businesses on.
4
SPEAKER_01
As a result, 1993, before he builds the thing, I think there are 20, I think it s 27 websites online.
4
SPEAKER_01
Within three years, it s tens of millions, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
It s exponential growth.
4
SPEAKER_01
And you didn t have to be a technologist, a computer programmer, to build a business on the internet.
4
SPEAKER_01
So these kind of user-friendly interfaces are showing up all over the place.
4
SPEAKER_01
For example,
4
SPEAKER_01
3D printing, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
We ve been talking about print me some 3D with some teeth.
4
SPEAKER_01
Today, a child can print in 3D.
4
SPEAKER_01
If you can point and click a mouse, you can print in 3D.
4
SPEAKER_01
So anybody can build businesses on the backs of 3D printing.
4
SPEAKER_01
3D printing is a $10 trillion manufacturing revolution waiting to happen, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
We know there s $10 trillion worth of opportunity inside the 3D printing world because that s the size of the manufacturing industry.
4
SPEAKER_01
it s gonna replace so right there robotics is getting user friendly interfaces there s a cool new robot out called baxter giant nine foot wingspan humanoid robot baxter is the first.
4
SPEAKER_01
User friendly robot with a user friendly interface and what i mean by that is.
4
SPEAKER_01
Five years ago, if you wanted to hang out with an industrial robot, it didn t work.
4
SPEAKER_01
They cordoned these things off behind bulletproof glass, because an errant arm could take off your head.
4
SPEAKER_01
Sensors are advancing exponentially.
4
SPEAKER_01
So Baxter s coded with all these next generation sensors.
4
SPEAKER_01
The minute Baxter feels anything solid, he stops.
4
SPEAKER_01
What this means is Baxter is the first robot humans can actually cooperate with in the real world.
4
SPEAKER_01
We can work with Baxter.
4
SPEAKER_01
Baxter is also $22,000.
4
SPEAKER_01
Anybody can basically, who s building a business, can have a Baxter.
4
SPEAKER_01
And a couple months ago, blueprints for free for how to 3D print a scaled down version of Baxter showed up online.
4
SPEAKER_01
So now if you ve got a 3D printer, you can print a mini Baxter, I think essentially, for free.
4
SPEAKER_03
That s pretty rad.
4
SPEAKER_01
If you want to program Baxter, you just move his arms.
4
SPEAKER_01
You don t need Unix, you don t need to speak computer code.
4
SPEAKER_01
You move his arms, he s programmed, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
User-friendly interface for robotics.
4
SPEAKER_01
Anybody can start building businesses on the backs of this robot.
4
SPEAKER_01
You don t need to be a computer scientist to do it.
4
SPEAKER_01
So these kinds of synthetic biology, which is the crazy one, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Because synthetic biology allows us to program life, to program DNA,
4
SPEAKER_01
code and create life from scratch.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s the craziest technology out there.
4
SPEAKER_01
And yet right now we re working on DNA typewriters, essentially user-friendly interfaces for synthetic biology, so anybody can program life from scratch.
4
SPEAKER_03
That s kind of terrifying, but cool as hell at the same time.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s terrifying, but from a personal entrepreneurial perspective, this stuff is really exploding, and it s open to anybody.
4
SPEAKER_01
If you re curious, you don t even want to build a business.
4
SPEAKER_01
If you re curious about these technologies, there are ways in for almost anybody today.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s the really crazy part.
4
SPEAKER_03
Excellent.
4
SPEAKER_03
Thank you so much, Jason.
4
SPEAKER_03
You got anything else?
4
SPEAKER_03
I m thinking about the bioprinters.
4
SPEAKER_03
I m just thinking, what could go wrong?
4
SPEAKER_03
Right, exactly.
4
SPEAKER_03
Well, next time they have the big Lebowski, they ll just be like, I could print you a till by 3 p.m.
4
SPEAKER_03
with nail polish.
4
SPEAKER_03
Thanks so much, Stephen.
4
SPEAKER_03
Much appreciated.
4
SPEAKER_03
And we ll, of course, link to Tomorrowland and your books in the show notes.
4
SPEAKER_03
I really appreciate your time.
4
SPEAKER_03
I know we jumped around a lot, but we basically wanted to get a sample of what you talk about in the book so that people can engage their fascination and then
4
SPEAKER_03
and check it out for themselves.
4
SPEAKER_01
I thought that was really fun.
4
SPEAKER_03
Thanks, guys.
4
SPEAKER_03
Thank you.
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So much interesting stuff there.
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Again, kind of all over the place, not our typical fair, but I hope you enjoyed it nonetheless.
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Show feedback and guest suggestions.
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The show s a fanarchy.
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It s run by you all, so you ve got your finger on the pulse.
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I need my finger on the pulse via you guys.
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If you know someone who s a good fit for the show, let me know, jordanattheartofcharm.com.
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If you enjoyed this, don t forget to thank Steven on Twitter.
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We ll have that linked in the show notes and other resources, including the book, of course, mentioned on the show.
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I m also on Twitter.
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I engage frequently there.
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It s better to reach me there
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Generally, it s a lot quicker as well.
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I m at The Art of Charm, and I post a lot of stuff there that ll never make it to the show.
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Bootcamp details at theartofcharm.com slash bootcamp.
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Now remember, we re sold out a few months in advance, so if you re thinking about it a little bit, you can get in touch ASAP, get some info, plan ahead, make it happen.
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And on the website, of course, is our blog as well.
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for people that just can t get enough AOC and you can engage with us there too.
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Review us on iTunes, check us out on anything and give us a nice five star review and write something.
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Helps us stand out from the riff raff and helps us get ahead of the game.
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Special thanks to the Jasons for their help in production of the Art of Charm podcast.
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Now tell your friends because the greatest compliment you can give us is a referral to someone else either in person or shared on the web.
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Now have a great week and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to The Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and everything for the extraordinary man at theartofcharmpodcast.com.