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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, I debunk everyone s favorite Hollywood medium, Bill shares his connection to Verne Troyer, and we talk about how to use the gift of intuition in the sales process.
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Hey, everybody.
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast.
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I am one of your hosts, Bill Kasky.
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I m the other host, Brian Neal.
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Hello, Brian.
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Hello, Bill.
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We ve been at this a while.
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We re kind of like the grandpa.
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We re like, you know what I mean?
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Like old furniture in the podcast.
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Everyone s like starting their podcast now.
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We ve been doing it for 10 years.
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Like, we re ready to start the next thing.
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Not really.
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We love podcasting.
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It s such a great.
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I m really glad everyone s coming on board, too, in the podcast.
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Pretty much everybody s got one now.
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Everybody, yeah.
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I m just waiting for my mom, who s turning 70 in July, to start her own podcast.
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It ll be time soon.
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I m telling you.
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I m telling you.
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Well, you know, I look back at some of the episodes or some of the podcasts that I have subscribed to over the years.
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And there are a lot of podcasts that did a few episodes and then no more.
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They just went out.
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And some went a couple of years.
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And I know the Art of Charm, Jordan Harbinger, we were on his show.
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And he s now got a new podcast.
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I saw that.
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I don t know what happened there.
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There was a little infighting or something.
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Switching gears.
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But we are still at it.
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We are, I don t know, 600 episodes in.
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We ve been doing it for 12, 13 years, and probably one of the first.
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I mean, one of the first 10,000.
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Now there s 23 million.
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Yeah.
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Hey, I was flipping through the TV, which that s how I watch TV.
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I flip through and I ran across this show called Hollywood Medium.
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Have you heard of this show?
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This guy, Hollywood Medium, I think his name is Tyler.
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And I m fascinated by these people that do this because it s just interesting how they do it.
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And I love the idea of thinking that there s an after and there s a connection to the other world.
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And I think that s wonderful and good and hopeful.
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So I m watching this, and at the same time, there s a definite pattern that all these people follow.
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And they cue in, and they check in with the person that they re listening for, waiting for affirmation.
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So he goes to Selma Blair s house, who s an actress, I think, from the 90s, 2000s person.
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Really nice, beautiful actress, nice person.
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He s doing a reading for her.
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He s sitting on her couch and I m watching this.
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So here s the first picture, Bill.
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I want you just to look at that picture and just like look at it for a second.
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It s like a magic show, okay?
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So Bill s gonna, and I ll show you, we ll post both of these pictures up, okay?
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Okay.
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Got it.
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Okay.
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So right after this scene, they re in this and back and forth.
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Are you watching TV?
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I m watching this.
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I just had to for this.
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So he goes to her, he goes, I m starting to get a vision of the
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What s the show, I m looking at Travis, Poe, Dinky, what are those guys, the Teletubbies.
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He goes, I m getting a vision of Teletubbies and I m focused on Winky or Binky or Slinky or what, and she starts crying immediately.
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She goes, Binky.
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That s my dog.
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She s sobbing.
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God bless her.
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She lost her dog and her family s watching.
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She they re all like, Oh my God, he tapped in there and she had left her other house.
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She buried him in the other house.
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She s not with him anymore.
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Super close crying.
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I think I know where you re going with the picture.
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Now I zoomed in on the picture.
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Would you look at that and look on the side?
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Look on the right side, see what it says.
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His name s right there.
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It says being on the side of the picture.
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I m like hang on to see right there.
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I m sorry winky.
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I said winky.
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It s winky.
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See that says right there, winky with the dog next to it.
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So I m just wondering if I m missing something here, but I think I could go into someone s house and look around.
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Give me five minutes here, ma am Salma Salma Zelda.
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And then spin it back into the Teletubbies and just make it all nice and dramatic.
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But when there s a big picture, I mean, the picture is enormous.
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And it s right in between them, too.
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It s enormous.
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He s looking right back at it.
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And then it says Winky back there.
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So I don t know, Tyler.
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Maybe we ll have Tyler on the podcast.
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A producer should get fired for that one.
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Isn t that unbelievable?
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Because that s a miss.
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That s a huge miss.
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It s a miss, right?
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It s just unbelievable.
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When you re doing something like this, and people are suspicious anyway, and that shows up, some producer should get fired.
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We will post these pictures up here and you know, then you just look around.
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So I m getting a vision of, uh, I m getting a vision of, uh, red rose, red flowers, red flowers.
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Yes.
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And you turn around this way.
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So good segue.
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Yeah.
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I m not a big fan.
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My wife watches Tyler sometime.
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Just something, something about that just feels
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But now that I know that, I ll never.
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It s just always.
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I mean, anybody.
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So I ll say, you know, I m getting an image of an older man, Bill.
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An older man.
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Is this making sense to you?
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Is this making sense to you?
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Yeah, me.
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So I m getting like a, there s an illness.
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Oh, there s a tall man.
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Am I getting it in my writing?
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It s a tall man.
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He s rather tall.
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Yeah, my grandfather was tall.
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Yeah, my grandfather.
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I m getting that he s no longer with us.
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Oh, my God.
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And he s telling me it s OK.
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He s telling me it s OK.
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that it s okay.
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You better watch it.
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There s people who listen to this podcast.
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Well, they do.
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I know that.
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And I m not saying they aren t or not.
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I m just kind of demonstrating what I m observing.
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I m parenting.
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I m observing what I see these people.
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You got me.
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I agree.
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We re going to segue that into our topic, which is intuition.
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How do I use intuition and leverage my intuition in the sales process?
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Yeah.
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Which is pretty much just looking around the room and finding a picture of a fish and saying, oh, you re a bass fisher.
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That s not what intuition is.
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So the topic, then, is how do we better use our intuition as we re moving through the process with people?
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The background of the topic was inspired by the Hollywood medium and the Long Island medium.
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The topic was inspired because we get so data-driven.
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And I m guilty of this, too, where you want the facts and the stats, and you have all this information that you re sharing in a sales call, and you re asking questions about the stats, that the more we do that,
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the further away we get from our intuition.
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And I believe intuition is a gift that we all have.
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All humans have it.
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All animals have some element of intuition that causes a reaction in them to behave a certain way.
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And the more we get filled with data points and information, I think the less we rely on our intuition to make decisions in a sales process.
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And so I d like to talk about how do we pull our intuition back out into the sales process, and how do we leverage it and use it, because we all have it.
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OK.
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OK.
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When you were describing that, the first thing that came to my mind was the intuition of where I am in a deal.
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So I maybe have had two or three calls with a prospect, and things seem to be moving along, but there s something about it that doesn t, something is hitting me wrong.
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And my manager says, where are we on that?
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And I immediately go to, well, no, we re moving along, man.
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We re at step four, step five.
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We re at about step five of 80% chance.
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I m feeling good, 150 grand.
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Everything s good.
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But we don t feel that way.
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And we are too reluctant to say,
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You know what?
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I know everything is moving along.
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I know we ve got it at 80.
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I ain t feeling it, boss.
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Yes.
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I m just not feeling it.
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I think you would get all sorts of flack for that.
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Yes, absolutely you would.
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Because the other thing is, the boss is then going to say, well, let s see the proposal.
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Where are they in the thing?
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And they re going to go to the data, right?
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Say, well, yeah, you showed them proposals.
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Did you go through your pricing?
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Yeah, did you go through your pricing?
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Are they good on that?
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Were they good on the terms?
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Good?
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Yeah.
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Yeah, looks good.
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Yeah, looks good.
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I m like, wait, there s something else going on.
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So it gets a good management thing to say, to check in with your salespeople s intuition, what your gut feels say.
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Because you ll collect all the data.
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I get that.
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And then say, so what s your gut telling you?
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Because your gut has.
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I have one of these.
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I have a prospect that had two calls with really good conversation with the president, wanted to pause the program.
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But we haven t even started.
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We didn t pause the process for like two months.
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I know what this means.
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I checked in with her once.
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I m like, you sure this is not just like, hey, no thanks.
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And no, no, no, no, no.
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I m still, my gut is like, man.
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It s screaming at you.
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It s screaming at you.
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So I m going to try another round to get in touch and start the process over.
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But if that doesn t go anywhere, I m going to be like, nah, not it.
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So maybe there s a couple levels of this.
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One level is when you feel it, you have to bring it up, which you did.
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But the other level is when you feel it, to have so much trust.
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And I m not speaking to you necessarily, although the example was really clear.
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I ve had that too.
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And I sometimes don t act on it.
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If I go in and I get this feeling like something s wrong here, I will still give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Well, maybe I caught him on a bad day, maybe this, maybe that.
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I think we ve got to be able to say, you know what?
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I m not feeling it.
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I don t think I d be good for you.
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This is not going to work.
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And then they will come back and say, oh, no, Brian, no, I m serious.
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I just got to know that.
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And you have to stand by your gut, because your gut, I would say, what, 80% right?
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90% right?
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Has to be.
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Has to be.
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Yeah.
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So that s really good lessons for people here, I think.
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in terms of how to externalize it.
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I think people have intuitive feelings about the sales process and where they re in the sales.
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They don t know how to express it, and you put it into action.
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And I think that s what the lesson on this podcast is about is, one, validating that it s there and you can trust it, and two, then putting it to action.
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Let s talk about the intuition in the sales call itself.
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OK.
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OK.
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How do we handle it when I m getting the sense that or I m getting the feeling that I m not getting the whole story or there s more behind what I m hearing?
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Like I just, you know, I, um, had a prospective client say, um, you know, everything s great.
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You know, double sales are great.
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This is just like a skill thing.
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I m like, is everything really great?
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I don t know.
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Is it?
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Because again, you want to take, like, OK, like you said, they ve got no reason to not say it.
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Was your instinct that it wasn t, or was it just more your experience that never is everything great?
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It s more that.
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It s more the be.
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But that kind of feeds into your instinct.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I also, well, ironically or not ironically, sometimes when I hear that, my instinct says the opposite.
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The people that say everything s great usually have the most mucked up stuff going on, right?
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It s the people that say, we need some help that you look at and go, yeah, it s really not as bad as you thought.
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But again, I think that experience you ve had with people who have said that and then the subsequent finding out that there are problems inspires and informs your instinct, too.
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Yeah.
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So it doesn t just come out of nowhere.
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I don t think it s all just, if we meditate more, we re going to have better instincts.
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Maybe that s true.
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But it also comes from your experience.
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Yes.
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But I think that you brought up a key point is here, do we trust it?
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Do we trust our instinct to really be delivering an accurate frame and message of what s really happening?
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Because we might hear the positive words from a customer and say, oh, man, he s a prospect.
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Our instinct s hearing all the words.
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Correct.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, I was I m doing some studying of meditation I m starting to develop a little mini mini meditation practice and one of the things I ve heard said is that You know, we all have a filter through which we see the world and the filter filters any kind of sense like what we hear what we see what we you know what we feel what we touch what we observe and
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And meditation or any kind of mindfulness practice, the goal there is to take all of the filters away so that we re seeing and hearing and tasting the exact thing.
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Yes, that s good.
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And I think that the whole instinct thing, if we, that to me is that idea of
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of cleaning the filter that we re looking at something, cleaning the lens, and seeing it for what it really is.
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And if we see it through a positive mental attitude or optimism, then we re not seeing it real.
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Yeah, right.
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That s really good.
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Is a mini meditation practice for a stature thing?
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Well, Verne Troyer was my teacher, but he died.
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God bless him.
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He had some problems, didn t he?
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Well, I heard he did, but was it alcohol?
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It s not public yet.
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I think there were reports of that.
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I don t know that that s confirmed yet, but yes.
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But that s pretty typical, I think, in that community.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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He was bad.
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Funny guy.
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Now, here s a case to trust your, one of the cases I have to trust your intuition is that as soon as you start to believe that the sales process is all about the data that you bring in, the way that AI, artificial intelligence, is rapidly speeding up,
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We can replace the whole sales process with AI if that s what you believe.
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If you believe that human intuition and gut feel and things like that don t contribute, if you re one of those that it s just about the data only, we will just go extinct, the sales people, the sales profession.
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I don t believe that s going to happen.
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And I guarantee there s some people working on it that are asking, how can I take the salesperson out of the selling process and automate this so that the emotion is removed and I can only make database decisions?
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So I would not be one that says, nope, it s all about the data, man.
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No, but we do fall into that trap as trainers, too.
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And when a CEO who is a data-driven CEO brings us in, then we know that everything he or she is doing is looking through the data.
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I had this exact thing happen a month or so ago.
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The guy says, oh, we got plenty of data.
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And I remember thinking at the time,
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Yeah, okay now I kind of see where this is going and it s not he didn t really care about the skills He was only interested in the results of the number the numbers drove his life Yeah, and he was getting venture capital money.
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He was getting yeah, and that s I understand that yep but also
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We understand that it s a whole lot more inputs of feelings and emotions and beliefs, belief sets, than it is the numbers.
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The numbers are just the lagging indicator.
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Yeah, correct.
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Absolutely.
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Go ahead.
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No.
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So you were saying that in the process.
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So your question was, what do you do if you re feeling something?
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Yes.
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Like any sort of resistance point.
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So I might say something that, no, I think
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I think that fee-wise, that s reasonable.
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That s good.
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But your gut s like, eh, they think it s too much, or something like that.
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I know we ve had a phrase, it s a podcast, an advanced selling podcast phrase, is if you feel it, say it.
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And that s really hard for people to do sometimes, because they get attached to the potential conflict that might occur, making a person upset, wrong, anything like that.
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Yeah.
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So let s take that situation of Price.
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Yeah.
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And yeah, no, that sounds good.
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So you re feeling what?
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When I say that, how are you feeling?
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I m feeling like I don t believe that you really think that s good.
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There s part of you that s going, I m not sure that s worth it, or I m not sure that is what I wanted to spend on this, or I m wondering if I could get a better deal elsewhere.
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That s kind of what I read and felt when I m looking at you.
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OK.
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So you now have to bring it up to me.
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Exactly.
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You have to.
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You can t move forward further until you bring it up.
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SPEAKER_01
So what are some options of how to bring it up?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just say, are you serious, dude?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, I d say, well, let s talk about this, because I get the sense from your answer that maybe that wasn t what you thought it was going to be.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I m very open about this.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it s better if I just sense a little bit of resistance, like it wasn t like a piece of cake.
1
SPEAKER_00
So let me check in with that, talk about it, and we ll see where we land.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s where we land is where we land.
1
SPEAKER_00
Something like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
I just want to break that tension down and let them give them space to be able to talk about it openly.
1
SPEAKER_00
That phrasing, if I get to sense that, or I m feeling that, or I m getting the vibe, there s a lot of different ways to say it.
1
SPEAKER_00
That needs to go in front of whatever you re going to say, I believe.
1
SPEAKER_01
You could even, since it s your gut instinct, you could even say, I m hearing you and I believe you.
1
SPEAKER_01
My instincts or my gut is telling me that there s a little bit more to that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Typically, at this point, I hear things like ba-ba-ba, ba-ba-ba, ba-ba-ba, and I m not hearing that here.
1
SPEAKER_01
But here s the bottom line, is you ve got to say something.
1
SPEAKER_01
You ve got to call it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Now, you can t do that after everything they say.
1
SPEAKER_01
If every sentence they utter, you re feeling like they re not telling the truth, you can t do that every time.
1
SPEAKER_01
But pick out, especially on price or especially on problems, if you re feeling like there s something more, you ve got to bring it up.
1
SPEAKER_00
You owe it to them to bring it up.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And from an efficiency standpoint, which is more data than feel, why wouldn t you?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because if I m going to go back and do a bunch of work or proposal or something, and after we talked about fee, price, whatever that looks like, and you re like, eh, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to get in that chase game of let s just talk about it now instead of rolling around trying to figure it out later when we re not together.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I think if you do that, if you hear something that your gut is screaming at you, something s not quite right, you bring it up.
1
SPEAKER_01
And as you get better at bringing it up, your gut is going to give you those signals better and more clear.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it s going to kind of be the positive vicious cycle.
1
SPEAKER_01
It will be.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s a good positive vicious cycle.
1
SPEAKER_00
We like that one.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
A very common thing, I think, where this comes up is the decision making process.
1
SPEAKER_00
When the person says, oh, I ve got to get signed off, but don t worry about that.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s good.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Eh, hang on a second.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s a big deal.
1
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, let s talk about that a little bit, process.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, how often does that happen?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I ve not seen that be overly, like, that usually isn t just easy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I m getting the sense that you re making it sound, it just doesn t, my experience is not easy.
1
SPEAKER_00
My experience, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Always reference my experience on that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
So if you have a question about this or want to comment, go to the LinkedIn group.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you re not already a member, go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn or find the group.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s the Advanced Selling Podcast group on LinkedIn.
1
SPEAKER_01
Join it and we ll start some dialogue in that.
1
SPEAKER_01
We post all our episodes up there and ask for questions and comments.
1
SPEAKER_01
So make sure you go there.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you re not a member, join.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you are a member,
1
SPEAKER_01
Weigh in, tell us what you think of the episode, and if you have any thoughts, I m sure the 9,000 and some odd members, and I do mean odd, would love to hear what your thoughts are.
1
SPEAKER_01
Beautiful, talk to you next time.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay, bye.
1
SPEAKER_01
Bye.