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Welcome to the Art of Charm.
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I m your host, Jordan Harbinger.
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I m here with producer Jason DeFillippo.
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Here at the Art of Charm, we may not have all the answers, but we certainly have some of the questions.
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Of course, on Fan Mail Friday, today, those questions come from you.
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If you re new to the Art of Charm podcast, I d love for you to get a good start with an interview that we ve done.
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We do a lot of long-format stuff with people you ve heard of.
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You can check those out at thebestof at theartofcharm.com slash best, or you can get our fundamentals toolbox at theartofcharm.com slash toolbox.
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That s where we ve got the fundamentals of reading body language and charismatic nonverbal communication, the science of attraction, negotiation techniques, networking and influence strategies, persuasion tactics, and everything else that we teach here at the Art of Charm.
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We ll send all that to your inbox if you text the word charmed
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C-H-A-R-M-E-D to 33444.
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If that works here in the states, of course you can always go to theartofcharm.com as well.
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Otherwise, let s cut to it.
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Hello!
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I want to firstly say thank you so much for everything The Art of Charm has done.
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Since discovering your podcast two years ago, I ve gained so much insight and have personally developed so much sense.
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I m a painter and have just received my first professional commission with a company.
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Congratulations!
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As it s my first client, I m very shy throughout the whole process.
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This company has relationships with other companies I m interested in creating work for.
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How can I suggest to my client in a friendly way that I would like it if they would be able to refer me to those companies?
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If that s not possible, what other effective ways could I make contact with those other companies that I m interested in?
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I don t yet understand office or professional culture, as I m still a student.
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Is that a normal thing to ask, or is it very forward and rude?
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Thank you for all the help you ve already provided me, and all the best.
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Lydia.
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Hey, Lyd, this is really cool.
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Congratulations for you, first of all, for getting into this.
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It s really hard to make a living doing art, so props to you for that.
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Here s how I ask for referrals and how I would ask for referrals in your situation.
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Step one, I would say, look, ask for permission to take extensive photos of their property before and after your work in the property.
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Ask for the referrals after the work is done and they re happy, not before that.
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and get testimonials from the person who hired you to do the work.
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Written testimonials are fine, you don t really need videos of someone talking, it s too personal, most people won t do it anyway.
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And then follow up with them so that they know you really do want that.
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Get those written testimonials, ideally while you re still on site.
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That would be ideal.
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Then, collect those referrals to other people, other businesses, and ideally get warm introductions from them to their counterparts at other buildings or properties or companies so that the introduction carries weight.
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Here s what I mean by that.
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If Sally hires you to do a mural for an office building,
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Make sure that Sally introduces you to other people that she knows at other buildings and other companies that do the same thing as her.
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And the way that she can make those introductions is by writing that person an email and CCing you on the email.
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If she puts you in a place where you have to cold email that person, you re much, much less likely to get a response.
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It s not even close.
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It s like 10 to 1.
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with warm introductions and cold emails.
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And then you can reply in that same email thread that Sally introduces you to other folks in and set up a meeting face to face wherever possible.
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Then bring full color prints and a binder for them to see and some copies of the photos, printed on paper is fine, for them to keep.
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And it would be great if you could put this on a website as well.
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You could host the photos in your portfolio so they can circulate to decision makers and if you don t have that yet, shameless sponsor plug, HostGator is giving you 50% off and we ll have that linked in the show notes as well.
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You can also use, and you should also use, tools like Boomerang, and we ll put that in the show notes.
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Boomerang will make sure that if somebody doesn t reply, the email bounces back to your inbox.
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So you can make sure that these people are getting back to you and that the ball is moving forward in every single case that you get a referral.
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A week s time to boomerang these is fine if they re making a decision based on the art soon.
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A month is okay if it s longer down the line, say three to six months in the decision cycle.
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And every three months to circle back and just sort of keep the relationship fresh is good if they re not sure when they re going to make a decision, because 90 days kind of keeps you top of mind.
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then ask them whatever else they might need and what else you can provide for them in order to make their decision.
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Because bear in mind, there s a lot of artists out there, however, a lot of them are not good at keeping up, they re not good at sales, they re not good at follow-up, they re not good at networking.
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So if you create these competitive advantages, that along with your talent and hard work in the art department, I think you re gonna see a successful career in doing this and you re gonna be one of the very few who can make this really happen.
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Because I did look at her stuff, Jason, it s really, really good.
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Yeah, it s really nice.
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I checked it out too.
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Hope that helps Lydia.
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Alright, moving right along.
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Hey Jordan, thanks so much for everything you guys do.
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I m a longtime listener and I m looking forward to coming out to boot camp in the spring.
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Nice.
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In the meantime, I know you ll be able to offer up some wisdom about my situation.
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My now ex-girlfriend and I were together for about two and a half years and moved in together after less than three months, because when you know, you know.
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Plus, we both needed to escape crappy living situations.
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There s the real reason.
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All right.
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Keep going.
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It worked out really well.
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No regrets.
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And we had a great relationship, except for one major problem.
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She has psychological issues, including anxiety, depression, and most applicable to the current situation, anger.
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She s had several instances of morphing into Amber, the name I ve assigned her hateful, psychotic alter ego, which is basically the face of her anger problem.
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Wow.
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Kind of a Hulk-Bruce Banner thing.
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In this state, I can t reach her or get her to listen when I tell her calmly what she s doing, even though she asked me to do just that in the aftermath of past instances.
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Amber is abusive, vindictive, completely irrational, etc.
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This used to happen a couple times a year, which I could mostly deal with, but it s accelerated to three times in just the last month.
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Usually it s an issue of her being overtired, but the most recent time it happened, I vowed to myself, enough is enough.
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This isn t what I want out of life.
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I m an easy-going, down-to-earth guy, and just want to partner with a similar disposition.
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What kept me in it over the years?
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Our relationship was ideal 95% of the time and manageable the rest.
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That 0.01% of the time when I come face to face with Amber, I simply can t keep control of the situation and have to GTFO before things get completely out of hand.
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So far so good.
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Maybe.
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Maybe, yeah.
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Yeah.
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When it s good, she s a great partner, extremely supportive, loving, feminine, a great housemate, travel companion, etc.
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She wants me to be her man for life and still does.
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I ve seen the progress and would not be writing in if she wasn t doing anything to become the best version of herself.
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She occasionally listens to AOC with me and has gotten on board with my own habits of constant self-improvement.
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However, she s not yet sought help for the anger problem and admitted to me since the last incident that she has major anxiety about approaching a therapist and admitting that it s a problem.
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Needless to say, with the breakup, she no longer has a choice if she wants to be a healthy, fully functional adult and if we are to have a chance at reconnecting in the future.
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She s seeing a therapist starting next week and has already done some heavy soul searching and preparation.
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My question is, am I right to leave the door open?
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I don t think this is an issue of scarcity mindset, but of course that s why I m writing in.
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When it s good, the relationship is basically the kind that I want in my life.
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If she seeks help, shows me the progress, and can eradicate Amber from her being, or at least can prevent it from ever getting out of control, I feel like it s a relationship worth salvaging.
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I know she wants to get better both for herself and for me, and her heart s in the right place.
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As well, how should I deal with her in the near future while we are not together?
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She s moving in with a friend, so we ll both have time to re-evaluate things separately with no added pressure.
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She tends to contact me more than vice versa, so I d like to strike a balance of being supportive and kind while not leading her on or letting her think she can slack off on this long hard road ahead of healing for her.
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Thanks and keep on making the world a better place.
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Signed, Punching Bag No More.
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It may take her years to heal and fix this, and you guys may be on different pages by the time that this happens.
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There s a kind of concept of timing in our lives and in relationships, especially with men and women having to kind of be in sync.
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You re not responsible for continually staying in sync with her, nor her with you, frankly, while she s trying to get this issue handled.
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People have different paths of growth and learning, and the sunk cost of being in a 95% great relationship, like you mentioned,
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I mean, look, we re looking for 95% great, but not when the other 5% is abusive and vengeful.
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We re looking at 95% great and the other 5% is overtired, maybe cranky, leaves the cap off the toothpaste, and maybe a little bit down there from there.
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Not get out of the car while, you know, tuck and roll on the highway because she s turning into the Hulk.
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Look, the door is open already.
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You don t have to communicate anything extra about this.
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She needs to be motivated to heal for her own sake, not just heal for the sake of your relationship or do something for you or for other people in her life.
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And once that happens, whatever comes out of that between you two, that s up to your current circumstances and where you re both at in your lives, so circumstances and timing.
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Don t put pressure on yourself to stay in sync in the meantime because it
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It won t work, and it ll just cause pressure and friction to build up between you two while she s trying to heal, and it ll take both of you backwards.
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So this is a doozy, but really, you gotta let her go and do her thing right now, and she needs to focus on getting better, because this is a real problem.
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This isn t, oh, you know, when she doesn t eat, she gets hungry and she gets cranky.
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This is, like, this is bad.
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I mean, this is bad stuff.
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this is going to ruin your relationship if it goes on.
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And she can t focus both on being with you and healing in this area, and you certainly can t stick around for it in the meantime.
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It s just, it s not gonna work.
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So let her go, let her heal up, and then you can reevaluate in a few years.
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But it s gonna take at least that long to really get together.
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All right, next up.
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Hi, Jordan.
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Huge fan of the show for years.
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I love almost all of the guests, but my favorite is Alex Coots.
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I also really enjoy the guy s AOC boot camp testimonials.
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Just realized how weird that sounds, but whatever.
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What is your process for getting such great on the record audio reviews?
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I have an e-course for pharmacists that gets great results, but I have trouble getting them to freely offer good testimonials.
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They tell me my content is very helpful off the record, but no one seems to want to own up to a testimonial.
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Is this shyness, fear, or am I asking the wrong way?
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How do you help them to open up and be so honest and vulnerable?
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And most importantly, to rave about AOC?
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Thanks for your time and putting out so much helpful information.
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Warmly, Blair.
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They write me saying, oh my gosh, this is life-changing, I really liked it, and then I say, look, I d love if you would do a testimonial, we can keep you anonymous by changing their names slightly, just like we do here on Fan Mail Friday, and this is important because a lot of folks are in public positions, we have congressmen, special forces guys, surgeons, things like that,
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They ve got their own inside training sometimes.
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They re supposed to attend first or they re in the limelight, that kind of thing.
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And so we do our best to keep people anonymous here.
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Then I ask them questions over the phone about the boot camp and then we edit out my voice on those calls.
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So if you re trying to get audio testimonials, I m having a conversation with them and then removing my part of the conversation.
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You never really need to prompt them beyond that.
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It s kind of like interviewing.
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Except the call is obviously very short and my voice is edited out like I mentioned and most of the guys have their own victories and stories that they can t wait to share so in your case I would reinforce that you can keep people anonymous and change the names and get the story from your testimonial That s the part that people remember easily and stories are something that we mostly all love to tell and I hope that helps you can use this for together testimonials and you can use this to get people up to open up at dinner table conversations or
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pretty much anything, just get them telling the stories.
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The stories are the key.
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All right, question four, Jason.
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I just found your show a few months ago and I love it.
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The interviews and insights are totally timely as a bunch of factors are all coming together and I find myself seriously considering a career change of potentially epic proportions.
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I have a very secure and reasonably well-paying job, but I ve never been completely sold on it.
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And as I ve just hit the 10-year mark, I want to get serious about finding work that I really want to do and that more fully fits my skills, interests, and values.
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Additionally, I lost my dad this summer after he fought cancer for a year, and it s time for me to be back closer to the rest of my family than my current 12-hour drive.
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So here s the dilemma.
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I ve worked for 10 years as an analyst and manager at an intelligence agency in DC, probably one of the ones you re thinking of.
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I have lots of training and well-honed skills in analysis, leadership, and critical thinking, plus experience teaching, briefing tough audiences, dealing with problem employees, and managing complex budgets, all of it in the context of some of the most high-stakes workaround.
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But now I m looking at a move, probably to Nashville, and while my skills are valuable in lots of fields, the translation to the real world and private sector might not be immediately obvious.
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How do I highlight those skills to potential employers in a way that at least gets me to the interview stage, where I m usually pretty good at connecting and communicating?
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And in a world where social media savvy and LinkedIn really matter, how do I address the fact that my online presence is skeletal at best, since security and secrecy keep me from putting very much info beyond my name out there on the internet?
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Thanks in advance, Shayna.
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Hey, thanks for your service to the country, Shana.
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Look, you re overthinking this.
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Private sector people love intelligence agents and they love people like you.
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I wouldn t even bring up the lack of social media.
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A lot of very normal people don t have social media.
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It s usually a waste of time.
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And I think, frankly, if they bring it up, you can say, yeah, I was in the freaking CIA or whatever agency we re talking about here.
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and you can let them know, and they should obviously understand that.
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It s not like you re signing up to be a social media manager of some tech company.
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They understand why you re not there, and frankly, if you have LinkedIn and you ve got that all set up, that s pretty much all you ll ever need.
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Do be aware, and I m sure you know this already, you ve got the publication review board that looks at a lot of operations, people s outgoing stuff.
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You might need to go through that to get approved for any type of social media or anything you re going to put out there.
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And last but not least, Shayna, check your email.
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I did send you the contact of a friend of mine who is in the CIA and transitioned out to the private sector.
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She s willing to take a call with you and see if she can help in this area.
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But I think the value here is, look, social media profiles, we get a lot of email about this, which is why I chose this question earlier.
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and it s just not that important.
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It really, really, really isn t.
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A lot of employers are looking for that for red flags, and if you don t have anything online, they ll wonder who the heck you are, but if you ve got one LinkedIn profile and it s got the info you need and you don t have a lot of photos online, the answer that you re a private person, especially if you have a job or you re in an industry where that might be valuable, it s totally fine.
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It s totally, totally fine.
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Don t bring it up, don t get defensive about it, and chances are it ll never even come up.
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All right, Jason, let s do this.
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Hi, Jordan and AOC team, great podcast.
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Thanks for all the motivational interviews.
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I ve been a listener for three years.
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Nice.
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My question for Fan Mail Friday, cold calling fear.
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I ve been a standup comedian for over 16 years.
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I have no problem speaking and engaging in public.
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The industry is going through hard times, so I m getting back on the phone, cold calling to offer workshops and presenting an engagement to supplement my income.
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I know my work and I m good at it, but cold calling is a real fear block.
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I need to get better at it.
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Any advice?
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Thanks, John.
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Hey John, thanks for the note.
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It s really funny how we can be so confident in one area, for example on stage, and so sensitive in another area, like on the phone.
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Especially when stage is seemingly far more personal than phone, but look, fear of rejection is mostly in our head.
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It doesn t matter where our situational confidence lies, whether that s on stage or on the phone or in person.
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It comes from a lack of experience in a given area.
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And so what we find, of course, is that confidence comes from experience.
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That s the solution to a lack of experience, naturally.
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So my suggestion is to rip off that Band-Aid ASAP.
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Start making the calls.
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You ll get used to hearing the word no.
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You re going to get rejected a lot.
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Fact of life.
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Then, learn how to handle objections.
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This is classic sales knowledge.
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It can be done in any legit sales course.
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The key here is to start ASAP and actually look forward to the no s because statistically speaking, each no gets you closer to a yes as long as you re honing the pitch, honing the skills, and learning how to handle objections.
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Now, if you believe in the product, this starts to get so easy that you ll actually have fun doing it.
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I promise you.
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I know it sounds like that s light years away, but it won t happen as fast as you want, but it never takes as long as you think.
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either and if you re anything like me you ll start to really enjoy getting your services into the hands and minds of other people because you know you re doing them a favor by developing the relationship and convincing them to bring you in for training.
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Best of luck and keep us posted on your success brother.
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kind of everything that we re teaching here at AOC.
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It doesn t seem like it right away, but once you start getting into it, it is really just like 90% overlap.
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And that s one reason we have so many salespeople coming through the boot camps and things like that, because they try one or two of these techniques here and they go, oh my gosh, if I can convert, if I can change my conversion percentage 1% over the life of my entire career, then this program is paid for itself.
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And of course we like to think we get better results than 1%.
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Do you have any favorite sales books for people out there who are really trying to get into it?
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I do.
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You know, we had Dan Pink on the show a few months back.
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He wrote To Sell is Human.
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That s a pretty good book.
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I mean, it s about sales and relationships.
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It s really, really good.
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Another one that I read a million years ago was
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Man, I think it was called The 800-Pound Gorilla of Sales, and it s by this guy Jeb Blount, and he does, he used to do this podcast called The Sales Guy, it was one of those really short ones, and I ve listened to that a bunch, and I really dug that one.
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I thought he knew what he was talking about, and he developed really digestible information.
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So we can throw that in the show notes, and those are some very, very basic sales things, and I think after you get through those, you can take a class, but the important thing is just to get doing this ASAP, and start working on it, so that you find out what it s like to hear no,
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you realize it s not that big of a deal and then you start to expect it and be able to work around it.
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My dad s a professional salesman and he loves that Dan Pink book as well.
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Nice, nice.
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Alright Jason, last but not least.
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Hey Jordan in the Art of Charm, thank you for the interview with Gavin DeBecker.
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I found it very helpful to hear about how to deal with the negotiation
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that I find myself in frequently.
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I feel like I have so much input coming from other people, especially men, that it s really hard to be nice and I m sick of rephrasing no so many times that it s becoming tiring and sometimes terrifying because I don t know whether the other person will believe me.
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I found the Becker s description of the nuances of threats and intimidation clarifying.
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I have a relationship where it s mostly good, but at certain times I get strong feelings of danger.
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I hope that this podcast will help me do what DeBecker advised and to cut all ties of this relationship.
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Thanks for the support.
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Stacey.
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Hey, Stacey.
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Wow.
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Just in the nick of time.
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Look, if you re in any relationship with anyone and you get strong feelings of danger at any time.
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Cut and run.
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Dangerous people are often very good at covering up their dangerous ways.
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We heard that in the Gavin DeBecker episode.
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Look, if you feel it once or twice, it doesn t necessarily mean the danger only surfaced once or twice.
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It just means that they let their cover slip a few times and you picked up on it however many times you managed to actually catch it.
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Those are not good odds.
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And so if you haven t heard the Gavin DeBecker Gift of Fear episode yet, check out the show notes for this episode.
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Go back and listen to that podcast.
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This goes for everyone.
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that information has saved my life, as I mentioned in the show and I told the story on the show, and it could do the same for you as well.
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Hope y all enjoyed that.
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Don t forget you can email us friday at theartofcharm.com to get your questions answered on the air.
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A link to the show notes for this episode, that can be found at theartofcharm.com slash FMF 105.
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I d also love to hear from you.
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I m on Twitter at The Art of Charm.
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It s a great way to engage with the show.
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Jason s on there as well, right?
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Yep, I m on Twitter at JPDef and you can also catch my podcast Grumpy Ol  Geeks every Monday.
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We re in the Podcast One app or go to GOG.show to find out more.
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Also, don t forget about the AOC Challenge.
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You can text the word CHARMED, C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444 here in the States.
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You can also go to theartofcharm.com slash challenge, of course.
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We re taking it step-by-step at becoming better at making personal and professional connections, becoming a better networker, increasing your charisma and your social capital.
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It s for both guys and gals, so check that out.
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Text the word CHARMED, C-H-A-R-M-E-D, to 33444.
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That works in the States here.
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Of course, you can also go to theartofcharm.com slash challenge.
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By the way, I host another show that s quite a bit different.
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It s on the Forbes network on podcast one.
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It s called the Forbes list.
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I interview Forbes editors and other talented folks about the lists that Forbes keeps of everything from billionaires to the fastest growing companies in tech.
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You can find the Forbes list anywhere you listen to podcasts.
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And I want to give a quick shout out, of course, as usual to Jeff K from Kenya,
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who got a job he s tackling life s problems like a boss because of the skills he s gained from the Outer Charm podcast, and Tim, who wrote us a nice note because he was living in his friend s basement, he was down and out, separated from his wife, and unemployed, came to AOC, repaired his relationship with his wife, got a better paying job, and is on the up and up.
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Wow, Tim, thank you for dropping this note to us, and you can drop the mic after this one, eh man?
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Proud of you, man.
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Are you in a strange land listening to my familiar voice?
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If so, hit me up and I ll shout you out.
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More from AOC at theartofcharm.com, including info on our live residential boot camps, those we run every week here in LA.
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If you want to dig into this stuff and work on these skills with us as your coaches, that s at theartofcharm.com slash bootcamp.
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Now stay charming, get out there and connect, and leave everyone better than you found them.