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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill talks about an anger management issue he has with an easel.
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I share a shameful live music experience with my first concert back since our pandemic.
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And we tackle a very, very interesting problem that s about to hit us all.
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And that is the job change tsunami.
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What to do about it as a leader and what to do about it as a salesperson.
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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Here every week, every week, we re recording on a Friday.
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It s so funny how the energy changes when we record on a Friday.
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It s good energy today.
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Then the money, no matter what.
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I ve tripped.
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Five people have tripped over your phone cord in the last five minutes.
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I have had my computer plugged in a very, very bad spot in my office.
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Literally three people, one being me, tripped over it in a matter of 14 minutes.
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Bill did.
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I said, I probably have that in a bad spot.
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Anywho, hey, we re glad you re here.
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If you ve not already done so, join our LinkedIn group.
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On LinkedIn, we re 12,000 plus listeners.
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Bill s kind of funny.
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And Insider, it s time, everyone.
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It s time to join the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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Insider, we re going to be going live today, actually from the podcast studio here.
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And so just go to our website.
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Check out the banner up top.
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Insider, check it out.
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It s the best money you ll ever spend for yourself to invest in yourself.
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And you ll meet really cool people and be part of this community.
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It s really good, really good.
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And we ve got some new things coming, too, that we re not quite ready to talk about yet, but we re really close.
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And so I know we ve said that before, and we ve kind of led you down the path, and then left kind of the oil dry.
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But this is going to be good.
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This is going to be some new things.
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Really great.
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Live music is back, Bill.
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Live music is back.
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I went to a concert.
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A fellow connector, someone that we both know, loves live music here in Indianapolis, said, hey, I m having the singer-songwriter come in from New York City, buy tickets, going to have at this country club, really nice country club up in Bridgewater.
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Yeah, went up there.
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And so we invited a couple of friends and had a cocktail before the thing and go over there.
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Not crazy, it was older people, so we re not being nuts, but we walk into this place and it s singer-songwriter, guitar player, and there s a warm-up guy.
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And everyone was, it s like stadium seating.
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And I was sort of- Was it inside?
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No, it was in a tent.
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It was great.
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It was fantastic.
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The problem was, I think I was in the mode of like concert mode or like, hey, little noise.
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And we walked in a little late and it was like walking into church late, like a wedding.
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I thought, oh gosh, we re disrupting this.
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We felt really bad.
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And I m like, totally.
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That s what it was.
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It s like you open the curtains to go into the tent, and it s the side entrance.
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Everyone s like, what are you doing?
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Shh, you re late.
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Really?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Is that the Bridgewater scene?
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No, no, no, no.
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No, it s just that the singer-songwriter was just kind of chill.
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It was more about my expectation and being a little bit late.
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We weren t really late, but I just kind of felt bad.
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So my first live music experience, I think it was kind of, OK, we re kind of easing into this a little bit.
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Yes, a little guilty.
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So if you haven t already done so, go buy tickets to a live show.
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All these artists really need the support, and we re big music fans.
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So for what that s worth, I know some of you are dying to do that.
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It s really good.
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Yeah, the whole Zoom concert thing just doesn t quite work for me.
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It doesn t, no.
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God bless musicians who ve pulled that together.
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Yeah, I had a friend, Kyle Carnes, who lives up in Carmel, and I helped him do some Facebook Lives back last summer.
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You know, he was not doing any gigs.
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He usually does does some bar gigs and yeah So he was doing it on Facebook live and and he actually got to where he had a thousand people watching one night Which was pretty cool because he never gets that many people, you know, yeah at a show right a show and but the You know the kind of wore off after a while didn t feel have had the same feeling to it.
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So I Destroyed an easel the other day on purpose
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Do you get mad?
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Do you get angry at a session?
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I got mad at this easel that I ve had.
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It was a fairly cheap easel, and cheap easels and I don t get along.
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Cheap easel.
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And it wasn t during a training.
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I was trying to put it down so that I could carry it.
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And this thing, it was coming apart like in four different ways.
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And I finally had had it, and I just beat the snot out of that thing.
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And it fell.
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It felt good.
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I abused this thing.
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And sometimes I would like bend the leg and then it would flip back trying to hit me.
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And I destroyed that thing.
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And now it s in my trunk.
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I ve got to figure out where, what dumpster to throw it in.
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Now you re in anger management class.
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You re the first person I ve told in our audience.
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Thank you for sharing.
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I even told my wife that I was going to say I threw a temper tantrum the other day.
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It s OK.
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Sometimes we have to let those, you know, as they call in the dog world, the zoomies.
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When dogs get the zoomies, they run around the house real fast.
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You know what I mean?
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Build up the zoomies.
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He had to destroy the- I had to destroy an easel.
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Well, it was meant to be.
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It was time for that easel to be done.
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That s right.
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That s really funny.
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I got five years use out of it.
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All right, topic.
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You want to tee it up?
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You want me to?
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Go on.
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Yeah, we talked, I think, on a podcast episode a few months ago about the job changing scenarios and kind of the environment right now.
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And I kind of thought that there would be a lot of changes in jobs and careers due to the pandemic, because there were so many people laid off.
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And whenever you have that many people laid off, it shifts everything, because people start looking for other opportunities.
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So if I used to be a chef in a restaurant, the restaurant s closed, you know what?
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Maybe I ll go back to school.
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So there s lots of shifts.
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But we came in today, and we always talk for a few minutes before we go live.
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I said, Brian, have you noticed that there s a lot of people in your programs, I know there are in mine, who are just kind of looking for other opportunities?
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And these are people who have been in the market for a long time, in their markets.
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And it s not even like they re looking to stay in their industry.
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It s like they re looking for brand new things.
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And I ve got a couple of groups, and I d say 20% of those two groups are in the process of looking.
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And it s not like they re ugly dissatisfied.
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They re just restless.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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You re seeing that.
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Pandemic restless.
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Yeah, I had a client yesterday I mentioned in the pre-show, his VP of HR, talent person, I don t remember the exact words he used, but essentially this job shift, they called it a tsunami, of all this pent up angst, that s my word, not his, where exactly what you re saying, Bill, I m validating that, that it s everyone waited through the pandemic, like, OK, I m going to sit, I m going to work from home, keep getting paid, life s good, now we re settled.
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And it s like everyone s got all this time to think like, what do I want to do here?
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Because now- I think that s another part of it is we had a lot of time to think.
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Yes.
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The geographical boundaries are gone for almost all work also.
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So I can literally live anywhere and essentially do anything I want to do now.
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It s a very, very interesting time around that.
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And we thought we d tackle it from both sides, from a leadership side and from an individual side for you, the listener, to think about where do I fit in this tsunami?
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I just like to say the word tsunami.
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Well, it s like the 17th time you ve said it now from the time that I saw you first day.
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Not me.
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How do you spell it?
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T-S-U-N-A-M-I.
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You know, I minored in East Asian Studies and Japanese.
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That s a Japanese word.
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So I can spell or pronounce any Japanese.
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Japanese is actually easy to say.
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OK.
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Even though I got a D plus.
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Well, that s got nothing to do with how easy it was.
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Nothing to do with how easy it was.
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I just didn t.
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I wasn t showing up for class.
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It just wasn t my thing.
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I just didn t want to do it.
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I could have.
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I just didn t want to.
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I could have.
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I could have gotten more.
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I could have gotten a D. I could have been a contender.
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C minus.
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I could have gotten a C minus.
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So that brings up another question, though.
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I know we re going to talk about it from the sales leader standpoint and also salesperson standpoint.
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But also, what does that mean?
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What is this geography doesn t matter anymore because everything is virtual.
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What does that mean for the skill of the sales professional tomorrow?
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And we don t talk about that now, but I think we usually talk about skills like you ve got to bond and establish rapport and face-to-face.
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Almost all our skills were based on face-to-face.
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And now they re not.
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And so I know our insider program this week, we re going to start talking about the skills of the future and tools and technology and language.
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But I think it all kind of figures into, OK, now that we know there s a tsunami, where are we all going with it?
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Where is it taking us?
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Yes, that s interesting.
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Good skill.
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That s kind of a different topic, isn t it?
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But we can maybe do it on the next episode.
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But yeah, that whole idea of what.
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So I used to have to do these things.
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I ve got to rapport, bond, go, eat, dinner, whatever, lunch.
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Now I ve got to be good on camera.
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I have to be really persistent with my follow through because I can t run into people.
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That s a real interesting idea there.
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There s no doubt there s going to be a different skill set for a geography, an unrestricted geography world.
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Well, I think one thing that popped up for us, and we were talking in this meeting, this is a group of chief revenue officers and VPs of sales.
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So those of you who are leaders, this would be for you to think about this.
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Because of all this, the traditional methods of recruiting are also going to have to change really quickly.
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So the whole idea of I m going to cast out a net, I m going to get resumes, I m going to do a job posting on Indeed or LinkedIn,
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That s not working at all for people, from what I can tell and from what my clients are telling me.
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And so you need to really take a look.
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look at the processes that you re in and implementing in terms of attracting talent right now.
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There s a great book that you don t need to read called The Blue Ocean Strategy.
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It s really thick, written by a couple Harvard professors, I think.
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So you said it s a great book, and I don t need to read it?
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No, because I can sum it up in a sentence for you.
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Basically, where the sharks all swirl, the water s bloody and red.
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And where the sharks are not, the water is blue.
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You need to find your blue ocean where the sharks aren t swimming.
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The sharks are swimming on Indeed and LinkedIn and traditional recruiting methods.
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You have to ask yourself, what does my blue ocean look like?
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Where are the people that I m looking for not?
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Does that make sense?
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You have to change perspective.
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Example would be a demographic look.
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You might say, well, we want someone with a second sales job that s got sales experience and at the A-E level, and they ve been cold calling or whatever.
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That s not going to work.
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Change instead and say, we re looking for stay-at-home moms who had a career before they decided to stay home, who are now in career transition because their youngest kid is going off to high school or college, and they re ready to re-enter the workforce.
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workforce.
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That s a very direct target thing that s very, very different than where everyone else is looking, if that makes sense.
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You might have a career transition program where you say, we re hiring salespeople.
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And our focus for salespeople, we are hiring people who have been in non-sales roles who are looking for a career shift to come and learn the skill and the profession of selling at our place, almost like free training sort of thing.
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Though, see, that s, you gotta think of it differently.
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Yeah, I do think, as you were talking, I went to my trusted- Quote, I m ready.
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Google.
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Yeah, this is interesting.
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You ever heard of Ernest Shackleford?
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I ve not.
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Ernest Shackleford assembled a group of men to climb, or to go to the, was it Antarctic or Arctic?
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Oh, Antarctic.
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It was a trip.
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It was a deathly trip.
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It was really difficult.
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Here s the ad supposedly he took out and brought in hundreds of men who wanted to go.
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Men wanted for hazardous journey, low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in event of success.
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Wow.
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Wow, wow, wow.
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That s great.
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So what that tells me is that s the journey.
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He was going on an adventure.
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And he said, I m going on an adventure.
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I have no idea.
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We may not make it.
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Anybody want to go?
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Yeah, hell yeah, I ll go.
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And I think for a sales leader or an owner who s looking for new people, it s not just about job responsibilities anymore.
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No.
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It can t be.
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It can t be.
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asking you to make 75 cold calls, blah, blah, blah.
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Where in the F are you going?
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Where are you going as a company?
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And how do you portray that so that people might want to come along?
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It doesn t have to all be flowers and roses.
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I guess flowers are roses.
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Roses are flowers.
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But it has to be, we re going on this adventure.
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Would you like to join us?
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Yes.
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If we can t, and so I agree with you, Brian, we ve got to get out of this old method, this old worn out crap of here s your pay, here s your comp plan.
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OK, you ve got to have those things.
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But you ve got to tell a story.
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Yeah.
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And have a purpose behind it.
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And have a purpose.
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Of what you re doing.
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So again, and what also is old now, because it doesn t matter, is hey, we ve got a free Coke machine and a foosball table.
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Exactly.
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Because I m staying at home now, so none of that matters.
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How do you sell your culture when everyone s remote?
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So you sales leaders are listening to this.
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You ve got to take this to heart.
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That s right.
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You ve got to find a different way to do this.
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There has to be either more purpose.
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I just spoke to a group this morning of some, a group of really, really young, very aggressive type sales, the sales team of this company downtown.
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Just gave a little quick like half hour pep talk.
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And they re doing this big.
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spiff events, and they re going to, if they hit this big, huge goal, they re going to rent a bunch of private jets and fly to some destination.
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Someone s going to win a BMW.
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That s all great.
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I love that.
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It s fun.
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Da-da-da-da-da-da.
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I told the group, do all that.
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That s really fun.
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All that shit is fleeting.
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It s all fleeting.
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You have to serve a human being.
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Yeah, that s right.
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That s what you got to do.
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And you got to sell.
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So you listening, if you re recruiting, don t sell, like Bill s saying, don t sell the calls, the income, that sort of thing, the support,
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You know, the coffee Java machine or whatever, the espresso machine.
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Sell how what you do is going to make an impact for somebody else.
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For the world.
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Yeah, for the world.
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For the world of customers and for the world of employees.
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Yes, and for everybody, yes.
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Here s another thing that I ve got a couple of clients looking, and I m trying to get them to do this, and they re just so reluctant, is if you have an opening, if you re a VP of sales, sales leader, whatever,
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Human Resource, you got an opening.
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Devote a page on your website to that opening with the hiring manager shooting a video, looking into the camera, and saying, look, I m really glad you came here.
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The information is below if you want to apply.
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Let me tell you a little bit about the position, a little bit about it.
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I mean, don t have the CEO do it.
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Have the hiring manager, because that s the person that this person will be reporting to, make a page that allows someone to really get to know you and the company.
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You know, what did you mention, not the recruiting company?
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The Java machine?
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Indeed.
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Indeed.
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Oh, Indeed, yeah.
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LinkedIn, yeah.
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I mean, who gets any kind of real feeling from Indeed?
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I m not saying it s not.
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We ve had terrible successes, haven t we, Trevor?
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But the point is that if this is a job that s worth a million dollars a year, not in pay, but in revenue, I think it s worth spending a few hundred dollars on shooting a good video.
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Absolutely.
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A few hundred bucks, it doesn t, I have one on our firm, how we work, it s a video of me and it s saying, here s how you, we don t take resumes.
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We don t take resumes.
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Like we don t, and I was like, really?
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We don t.
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You take videos?
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Yeah, videos.
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And we hired someone.
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I m gonna apply.
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Literally at the, we were like three, you know, three, four interview, like after, you know, she did the video, da-da-da, we did all this stuff, she started.
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But we re sitting there getting, like, and I get to know, I knew her from the interview, but I literally realized, I m going to go, where did you go to college?
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I don t even know where she went to college.
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Like those normal things on the road.
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Tell me about your college experience, all that baloney.
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What was your grade point?
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Exactly right.
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Or just, you know, tell me about, I know where she worked last.
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But I knew her as a human really deep, really well.
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So you re right.
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The video, yes.
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I love the hiring manager thing.
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The hiring manager should shoot a personal video for this role.
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Here s what it s like to be on my team.
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Good and bad, right?
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Own your stuff, right?
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Interview some of your sales people.
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Say, look, I want to introduce you to John.
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He s our top salesperson.
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John, what s your secret?
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Well, my secret is I just, you know, I m whatever.
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Anyway, OK, so that s the VP of sales side.
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Now we want to switch to the salesperson side.
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And so we re going to assume that there is a certain percent of listeners who are restless.
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They re part of this tsunami, or at least they re exploring.
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That s what more I hear is exploration rather than they ve got to get out.
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So first is you ve got to have a resume.
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We don t take them.
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You need to spell check your resume.
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It needs to be on at least 20 pound paper.
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At least 20 pound.
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What size type?
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Times New Roman 12.
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Times New Roman 12 font.
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What about the leading?
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Left justified.
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The leading.
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What s the leading?
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I don t even know what that is.
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Is a space between lines or characters?
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Oh, that s funny.
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The leading.
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I love it.
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I don t know.
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It s fantastic.
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OK, so go figure.
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David s, what s his name?
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Oh, that s great.
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David Stahl.
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Stahl.
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Yes, yes.
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What is this, cinnamon?
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That s a callback.
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No one, listeners, sorry.
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We digress.
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Good friend of ours, a designer.
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I had a blazer on one day, and I thought it was brown.
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He called it cinnamon.
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I think his was cooler than mine.
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He goes, what is this, cinnamon?
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I m like, no, it s brown.
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Oh, it s cinnamon.
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OK.
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You re the designer, man.
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Paid him $35,000 to tell me that.
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He s a great guy.
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He s an awesome guy.
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We love him.
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So yeah, I like, so I m going to, I m going to say what you re going to say.
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You need to do a video, don t you?
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You need to do a video.
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Are you done with your point about the no resumes?
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Well, I shouldn t say no resumes.
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That s dumb to say.
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So in lieu of that, then, what?
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In lieu of a resume, or in addition to, because a lot of people are still traditional.
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Even though they don t listen to the podcast, they re going to ignore our advice.
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They want to see your resume, blah, blah, blah.
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So you got to do that.
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I would be, if I were looking for a job or seeking, I would actually put myself on video and say a couple of different things, a little bit about my story.
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Here s who I am.
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Here s where I come from.
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I would also talk about, this is one of the questions we ask people, tell us what you re running away from and tell us what you re running to.
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Because no matter what, when you re in transition in your life, you re running away from something and you re running to something.
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Everyone has it.
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You need to understand that first.
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And putting it on video will help you understand it.
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So I would do that.
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And then, how cool is this, though?
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So then I go to interview with you.
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You re the hiring manager.
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And you have my resume.
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We have our thing, blah, blah, blah.
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And I say, hey, Bill, if it s OK with you, I actually put together a little video so you get to know me a little bit better, talk about my story and my path and where I am now.
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Would it be OK if I sent that to you?
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You re going to say, sure.
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You re going to watch that.
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I m going to stand out as a candidate beyond anything, would be my guess.
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That s what I think.
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I m not even gonna add to that because I think that s that s it and yeah, and if you can write something I ve got one of my clients who s Who s been around for a long time.
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He s a high-power salesperson.
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Yeah, it s kind of itching a little bit Yeah, right write some articles for LinkedIn I just heard a stat the other day that said LinkedIn articles are like the new
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who it s coming up in terms of algorithm strength versus video.
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Used to be video, now LinkedIn articles.
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And so if you haven t written a LinkedIn article, again, like Brian said, you can go into the hiring manager and say, look, I know you ve got your resume.
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Here s a couple of videos I shot.
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And by the way, here s a couple of articles I ve written.
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That d be so great.
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Nobody else does that.
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Nobody.
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Nobody.
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And if they do, pretend they do.
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Pretend you re up against someone who does also write articles, who also does a video.
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If you don t get chosen for that job, you re going to sleep great, because it wasn t right for you.
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Because you put your whole self out there, everything that was out there.
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And you shouldn t have gotten there anyway.
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Because whatever you said, it really didn t affect you.
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Why were you even doing there?
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Why did you even take that appointment?
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That was good.
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All right, good.
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Wow.
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Friday episodes are strong.
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That speaks to both sides of the equation.
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Yes.
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And I know we ve probably spent a little bit more time on the manager side, but that s intentional because that s.
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And if you re a sales leader and you look around and you see your 10 people, then you say, oh, no, my people aren t going anywhere.
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They are.
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They are.
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20% of them are interviewing right now.
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You don t know it.
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They haven t told you.
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They re afraid to tell you.
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They are.
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So you ve got to be conscious of how.
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What was the saying that I ve told you before?
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I heard it from somebody.
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People don t leave because of money.
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People leave because they weren t recognized.
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Or there was not as much meaning in their work.
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And recognize and meaning probably are similar.
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So anyway, good topic today.
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Very good topic.
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So forward that to your sales leader.
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If you re a salesperson, if you re a sales leader, listen to that and repeat a couple of times.
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Put something into practice.
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Guarantee your life will be way better if you do that.
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You ve got to do it now because a tsunami is coming.
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All right.
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That s it.
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See you next time.
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Bye.