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Hey, before we roll into today s episode, I want to invite you to be a part of our August 5th Insider Training Program.
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It is noon Eastern on August 5th.
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We re going to be talking about resistance, how to overcome and actually preempt any buyer resistance that you get in your sales process.
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The Insider Group is our monthly training program.
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You can go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider.
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going to be talking about resistance and got seven or eight ways we think you can be better at not only handling it when it occurs, but also stopping it from even occurring.
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That sounds good, doesn t it?
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Now on with the episode.
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Welcome, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest-running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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My name is Bill Kasky.
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I did it.
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I did it.
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You did it.
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You nailed it.
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Took three episodes.
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You nailed it.
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You nailed it.
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I dropped it-ish.
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So glad you re here.
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Hey, tell a friend.
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Would you tell a friend about the Advanced Selling Podcast?
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All you got to do is forward the episodes around.
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We love to grow the audience.
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We ve never, ever, ever advertised to get more audiences.
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Ever, not once.
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All of our audience is homegrown.
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homegrown by you, but you ve helped us, so we re asking you to help us some more.
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If you have no friends, this is a good way to make a friend.
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Just go up to somebody on the street armed with a shiv, just in case, and say, I want to give you a tip, sir.
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Yes, sir.
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What s your name?
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Doesn t matter.
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The tip is theadvancesongpodcast.com.
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Yeah.
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We should start, you know, it s a little expensive.
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Swag s expensive.
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Isn t it?
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T-shirts and stuff.
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I thought we should start selling or giving t-shirts to people.
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They can wear them to trade shows.
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I think trade shows are great because it s full of salespeople.
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You can walk around with an Advanced Selling Podcast t-shirt on.
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Maybe we should hire people to do that.
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Okay, yeah.
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There s a big budget for the podcast.
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There s a huge budget.
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Huge, huge, huge budget.
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Podcast budget.
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$40 million enterprise here.
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Yes.
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Okay, so I ve got something I want to run past you.
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Are you familiar with the term hypervigilance?
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Kind of.
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Yeah, I ve heard of it, yes.
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You kind of know what it means.
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Yeah, totally.
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Sure.
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Our family is hypervigilant.
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I don t know whether it was in the water or what, but we are all very, it s hard to let things go.
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We see things that nobody else sees, and then we laugh about them when we get home at night.
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I think you are hypervigilant.
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A little bit.
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I don t get as much things past you.
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No, my daughter is is that way and my oldest daughter and I ve been thinking about this term that I am just tired of hearing.
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And I haven t heard you use it, although you may I think I might have used it.
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Occasionally, but not very often.
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And she came over the other night.
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She goes, oh my god, there s this guy on our calls.
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He used this word 20 times.
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Oh, gosh.
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And I said, what s the word?
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And she said it.
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And I m like, yes, I ve been having a problem with that.
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And it s the word unpack.
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Oh, God.
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Yes.
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Oh, God.
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I will never say that word.
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Except I m moving next weekend.
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And I will say that.
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And I am moving.
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We are moving.
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I can t I can t even I can t even unpack.
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I just can t even the problem is, what s the point of it?
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You know what I mean?
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It s the people that use it though, use it over and over.
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And so like, um, I listened to a podcast and I m not going to say who it is.
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I like the guy, he s a good interviewer, but every, everything is, well, we can, let s unpack that.
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Can we unpack that?
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Why don t you unpack that for us?
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And, uh, I can t even, I, I just, that I thought it was going to be one that s maybe more closer to normal than that.
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I mean, that s just said so often and it s so just, you know, it s so corporate speaky, isn t it?
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You know what I mean?
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Like, let me unpack that.
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Everyone like says it funny.
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You know what I mean?
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I think I m going to unpack this.
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I really want to unpack this idea.
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Why don t we just talk about it instead?
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Because we ve been doing that for friggin 4,000 years.
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Yeah, exactly.
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We haven t unpacked anything, you know.
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We need another word.
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To insert, to make me sound more smart than I really am.
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But I m not.
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It drives me mad.
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No, my word that I m hearing a lot, and unfortunately, I ve had to say it, and I didn t have to say it, but I m going to go, I m going to revert back, is the word asynchronous.
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asynchronous and synchronous, which basically means either live and in-person or recorded or not live and in-person.
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So synchronous is live.
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Synchronous is live.
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Yeah.
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So we are in a synchronous format.
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You and I are live.
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People consume the podcast in an asynchronous format because it s recorded afterwards.
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It s super buzzy in remote work and stuff like that.
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You know, we have an asynchronous solution for asynchronous teams.
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You know, it s like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, I don t hear that too much, but.
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Oh gosh, I hear it all the time.
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Maybe I will now.
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Well, the first time I heard, I heard a guy, the guy was in a group of ours.
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He said it 15 times in the first 10 minutes.
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I m like, time, I m sorry.
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I m like, you know, you know me, I don t have a huge, I m like, what does that even mean?
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I don t even know what I mean.
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I didn t.
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And so then he s like, asynchronous means not in person, synchronous means in person.
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I m like, okay, I got an idea.
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Why don t we just say that?
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Are we doing in-person work or not in-person work?
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Like that s what it is.
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It s a lot easier to understand.
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Anyway, I digress.
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Yeah, that s good.
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I ll tell you something else that I hear sometimes in
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people as they are in Zoom calls, virtual meetings, is the talking around the topic.
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And each time they come around the topic, they change it a little bit.
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And I think there is a desire to have someone understand what they re trying to say.
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But like they would say, you know, I ve got this, I ve got this easel in my office that I m looking at, it s a whiteboard.
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And you know, it was in the room there, but now it s in my office and it was brown and now it s white.
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And when I moved it, cause it was actually a couple of times ago, it was in the room and then the hallway.
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And then I was like, okay, let s get to the point.
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Yes, we re doing installing an operating system called EOS.
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And one of the rules of the EOS system is they call that politicking, which I think is kind of a unique, but they call it when someone s trying to get their agenda.
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That s why they call it politicking.
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Yeah, get their agenda across.
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And they say the same thing 10 times in the meeting, different way.
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No politicking allowed, which I love the rule.
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Have people been trained to do that?
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Because that can t come natural, or does it just come with a desire to convince people?
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I think, number one, just the awareness.
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Like in the system that we re learning, it s just in the system.
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So you look for it then, once you understand what it is.
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And then when someone says something, then you self-correct, self-coach, and then you can
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Stop doing it.
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No, but I don t mean the correction of it.
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I mean the actual doing of the, yeah, I don t know.
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Yeah.
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Around the park over and over.
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That s a great psychologically what that comes from.
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Just a desire to be understood.
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That s a great question.
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It s like, uh, you know, right.
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It s like when people end every sentence with right.
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Right.
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Is that a, okay.
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Right.
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Like get validation thing.
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Yeah.
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Is that a valid, a seeking validation?
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Right?
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You understand?
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Right?
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Right.
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Right.
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Well, I went to the, I went to the grocery store last night.
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Right.
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Right.
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I don t know.
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Did you?
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So yeah, I ve got a couple of clients that do that.
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Okay, shall we?
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We re going a little more headwinds here.
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Yeah, topic, like recession.
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You know, it s unavoidable.
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Everyone s talking about it.
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Like, yeah, the recession s coming.
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And is the recession here?
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Is it not here?
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Does it matter if it s here?
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How bad s it gonna be?
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Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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So, we re gonna talk about it today.
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And I have a little thing.
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Yeah, well here, Bill, I m gonna draw here for you.
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Not to scale, okay?
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But this is the thing that hit me the other day.
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I m like, this is kind of interesting.
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And I was told, you know, be a little careful with this one.
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And I m drawing on my whiteboard, and I m going to read what s on here once I get it done.
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Put it up, and I ll take a snapshot of it.
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Perfect, perfect, perfect.
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So we go up, down, up, way down, up.
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OK.
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Got that, whoops, see that.
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This is 1992, it s when I graduated from college, old guy here, okay, 1992.
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Perfect, okay, got it.
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Yeah, graduated in 92, I was in a recession, didn t know it, but I got a job, great.
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So then the economy went up, basically up until about 2000, 2001, dot com bubble, not just back down.
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Started going back up again, went way up, really, really good.
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Boom, big crash, 08, 09.
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Since 08, 09, it s 2022, we ve virtually been up.
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Virtually been up.
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Now think about this.
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Think about sales teams that are listening.
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You listening.
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Think about if you re a VP of sales, think about your sales team.
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If you graduated from college in 09 or after, the only economy, the only sales market you ve known is one that s gone up.
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Yeah.
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Straight up.
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General tail went straight up.
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You ve never ever gotten any economic
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resistance.
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I m not saying your job s been easy and you ve gotten every sale.
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That s right.
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But you ve never experienced it s been like that.
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If I m a sales leader, that s concerning.
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Because there s a big percentage of people who fall into that category that have never seen any economic headwinds.
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So anybody 38 or less, 35 to 38 or less hasn t really.
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That s it.
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They haven t seen layoffs.
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They haven t seen mass layoffs.
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They haven t seen downsizing, same thing.
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They haven t seen people not renewing contracts.
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They haven t seen tons of price pressure.
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All the things that you and I have seen, they haven t seen yet.
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So that s interesting to me.
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That s an eye-opening graph, and it s true, and it kind of hits you right between the eyes when you think about what kind of a role we ve been on lately.
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It s not all bad news either, by the way.
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So I think sometimes we can enter into a recession and be in it for six months to a year and not really know it.
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And then by the time we know it, we re kind of on our way out of it, which you just had on your book series.
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Recessions don t last 10 years.
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They last six months, a couple of years.
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So the question I would always have is, what part of your business could benefit and prosper because of a slowdown or a recession?
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Oh, that s good.
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What part of your business could benefit or slow down?
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Like, in Brian and I s business, the coaching, the improvement, the business improvement business, typically recessions like those businesses.
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Those are not, they used to be, they d say, oh, you know, training always gets cut.
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Well, neither one of us are in the training category.
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We might train and coach, but we don t, HR is not our customer typically, right?
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Not speaking for you here, but it s the business, it s the functional, it s the VP of sales, CEO.
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So when things start to slow down, I think a lot of times we say, well, how can we get better?
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How can we leverage our existing talent?
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We re not going to hire more people right now.
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Could we invest in training?
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training, coaching, and whatever.
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So I think if part of your business, there s an upside during recession, double down on that.
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Get really super clear on that part of the business.
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That s really good advice.
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I wasn t even thinking about that.
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And every, I shouldn t say every, most businesses have a version of this.
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You have to circle, and it s probably not what your positioning has been in the past.
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No, correct.
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It s a different.
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And you might have to alter a little bit how you approach your market this way.
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An example would be if you work for a staffing company, and you say, well, or an IT staffing company, say, man, people are going to start cutting people everything.
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Well, that could be good, because they re going to cut full-time people, which means they need more outsource people.
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Correct.
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So don t get too caught up.
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Try to find the counterintuitive approach.
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That s really good.
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Yeah, so maybe the question to ask is, do you have any services, products, whatever, solutions that either save money, make money, this is for the client, or
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significantly improve efficiency, which ultimately then transfers to money.
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And I don t know any business that doesn t have their feet in one of those categories.
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You either save people money, you make them money, or you make them just better at what they do.
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And so if you re an accountant, well, maybe you could introduce a recession business planning offer.
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I don t know, that s crazy.
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But something that you do can help people save or make money.
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Double down on it.
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Pull it out front.
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When you post on LinkedIn, don t post about your features and benefits.
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Post about, hey, if you re in the business right now and you need to figure out a way to save 10% off your bottom line, I might have a solution for you.
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Bill Kasky, here s my product.
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So position yourself.
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And I just, right before Bill said it, I wrote down the word efficiency on my board.
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I mean, that s what it is.
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And the thing I think to learn from this episode is the messaging and the process that you used with massive tailwinds for 10 years may not be, likely won t be what it s got, right?
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You have to change it.
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And my fear is if you ve never been through this, you don t know that you re just going to keep piling on and doubling down on the stuff that you did in the past.
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That won t work.
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You got to shift it.
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I ve got one client who has a software for construction companies, and they ve always been about efficiency.
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That s been what they ve led with in the past, efficiency and how often the trucks are used and that sort of thing.
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You know what they just switched to?
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How to measure idle time because of the price of fuel.
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So these trucks are in these construction deals, and they re sitting there.
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Well, my client s software can measure how long the thing s just sitting there on.
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One of them, they found 22,000 gallons of fuel burn from just idling a machine.
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This is just workers just not trying, that s at six bucks a gallon in a month.
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And so now my client s like totally changed.
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The software s identical.
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It s identical to what it was, but they changed what it s used for and the positioning in the sales language.
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Yeah.
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So they had to look, they had to kind of pull focus, look at their business in a slightly different way.
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I wrote down, meet them where they are.
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They met the customer where they were in terms of their current circumstances and what they were paying attention to.
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Hot topics.
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What s the hot topics?
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Well, fuels are good.
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Okay.
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Well, can you help that?
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Yeah, we do that all day long.
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So I like the idea of if you just draw a triangle, save time, make time, or I m sorry, save time, save money, make money, or
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improve efficiency or productivity or whatever you want to call that.
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I guess that would be a four-sided triangle.
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It s a diamond.
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What did you major in?
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I majored in geometry.
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I don t know.
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Geometry?
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Yeah.
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Geometry is interesting, isn t it?
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Some people get it or they don t.
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I was okay at geometry.
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I never was a big fan of it.
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Yeah, my son really struggled with it.
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He s a really good math guy.
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Anyway, I love what you said, Bill.
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Hang on to this one, hot topics.
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Everyone listening to this should go and scribe, what are the hot topics for my clients in a slowdown?
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What are the things that start to impact their business and in what way?
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And what do I do?
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Sell, provide, that helps them with that thing.
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It could bring relief to that.
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It could bring relief to that, absolutely.
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Because Bill and I have talked about this, we talk about abundance.
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And we, people think, well, you know, in a recession, it s not very abundant.
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Yeah, it is.
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It s the same.
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They re abundant.
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They re an abundance of problems in a recession.
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They re an abundance of problems.
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They re an abundance of pressures.
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They re all over the place.
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And people that didn t have pressure before suddenly have pressure.
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And you may have called on someone for the last three years, and they re like, we re good, we re good, we re good.
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We re good, and now we re not good.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the other thing, I know we talk about this, and I don t have any data to, evidence to back this up, but I do think your competitors, it s easy to put your head in the sand during these times and say, well, you know, people aren t buying like they used to, so we re going to pull off the throttle a little bit.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you can t do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
You have to double down on the throttle.
1
SPEAKER_00
You have to make a few more videos for LinkedIn, write a few more articles, make a few more calls.
1
SPEAKER_00
Don t get obsessed and don t work yourself to the bone.
1
SPEAKER_00
But you might have to be out in the market a little bit longer to pick up the fewer and further between deals that are still out there.
1
SPEAKER_00
But if you re not out there, you re not going to get access to them.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was, uh, one of my clients, uh, their CEO who I admire immensely because of this, when he was running his company in 08, 09, the first thing he cut in the first big, the great recession was sales.
1
SPEAKER_01
And he said, it took me eight years to catch back up when the kind of recession from COVID hit.
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SPEAKER_01
He told me very, he said, I will not absolutely under no circumstance.
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Will I take the throttle off sales?
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SPEAKER_01
We are going to continue to hire, hire, hire.
1
SPEAKER_01
and push it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they doubled in the last two years.
1
SPEAKER_01
And this is a big number in a big company.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like, dang, great learning.
1
SPEAKER_00
He s right.
1
SPEAKER_00
And he learned from his mistakes, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
So if you have anything you want to add to this, go to the LinkedIn group.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you re not a member, advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let us know this.
1
SPEAKER_00
What are you going to be doing that maybe is a difference maker?
1
SPEAKER_00
Maybe you learned from 08, 09.
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SPEAKER_00
and you re not going to make that mistake again, give us some thoughts.
1
SPEAKER_00
We d love to hear them.
1
SPEAKER_01
Love to hear them.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if you were in junior high in 08-09, then I would, you know, talk to some people who weren t, who were out in the workplace and what it was like and get some perspective, because that s true.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, there s a lot of people that are very accomplished salespeople who were in eighth grade in 08-09, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
They re out there, so.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Can I close it?
1
SPEAKER_00
Can I close this up with one simple phrase?
1
SPEAKER_00
Please.
1
SPEAKER_00
We have successfully unpacked this.
1
SPEAKER_01
Thank you very much.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s been great to be with you synchronously.
1
SPEAKER_01
Those of you listening asynchronously, have a great day.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
1
SPEAKER_01
Bye.