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Welcome, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest-running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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And my name is Bill Kesky.
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Here every week for your listening enjoyment.
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If you re not part of the Insider Group, shame on you.
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Not shame on you, but go.
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Oh, yeah.
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Good gosh.
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What are you doing?
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Best deal going live coaching from Bill every first Friday of every month.
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almost a, you know, it s such an affordable, great hit for your sales life.
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Got to go do that.
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Be in the insider group for sure.
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If you re not a part of that s awesome.
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Um, and, uh, we mentioned last time, Bill, but I wanted to revisit this.
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You sort of dropped in a little bit casually that you went to see the Eagles rock band Eagles.
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And I didn t, because we were talking about other things, tell you my Eagles experience.
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And I just wonder if you had the same one.
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My Eagles experience was this.
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This was three or four years ago, the last time they came through our hometown here of Indianapolis.
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And we took my in-laws.
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who are, I think you re exact same age, like high school, 77, 78, 77.
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Okay.
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So wheelhouse Eagles or wheelhouse music.
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Oh yeah.
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Like gift.
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And I love the Eagles too.
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And I grew up, you know, not much younger.
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So I m like, you know, but I m like, yeah, I ll go to see the Eagles.
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It d be good.
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That s kind of my attitude on about, that d be awesome.
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It was the second best concert I ve ever seen behind Prince.
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I loved it.
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They were so tight.
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They were so good.
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They play their song so straight, so direct as they are.
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There s nothing cute or fun or fancy.
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Vince Gill was with them.
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I don t know if he was with them with you.
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And Vince Gill, who on his own right is very famous by himself, plays his role in the band.
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as supporting.
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And then Glenn Fry s kid was there.
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And they opened with Seven Bridges Road.
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Those of you who don t know the Eagles, just Google that.
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And you could see their silhouette when they came on.
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And last time I saw them, it was the first show of this tour, actually, like three years ago.
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And you saw this guy reach over to the other guy and give him knuckles before they started.
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And it was
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It was Don, um, Don Henley giving knuckles to Glenn s kid.
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And I almost like started crying.
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I m like, that was cool.
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Yeah.
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So that was my experience not to overblow it, but I didn t get to say that last time.
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I loved it.
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Yeah, they re good.
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And they had a symphony orchestra with them the last time.
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They didn t have that this time.
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That was a three-hour.
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I remember that was a long concert.
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This one was only two hours, which for me, sitting in two hours is good.
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But here s another story that I heard, and it s about skill.
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So this really plays into what we talk about every week.
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Steely Dan was going to open for them.
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But Donald Fagan, who was one of the founders of Steely Dan, is ill.
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Going to be OK, but he s ill.
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So they had to cancel.
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So they had to scurry around three days from the concert and find somebody.
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Well, they found Steve Miller.
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I guess Steve Miller Band, they were just sitting around doing nothing.
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Just waiting for the Eagles to call.
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Waiting for the Eagles to call.
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That d be nice, wouldn t it?
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But Steve Miller told this story.
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And if you don t know Steve Miller, abracadabra, he has a lot of songs, Space Cowboy.
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But he told the story.
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He said, you know, when I was five years old, my dad was a musician and my mom was too.
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And my dad took me down to this bar.
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And Les Paul.
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Oh, jeez.
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Les Paul is a famous guitarist.
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One of the original, I mean, just has his own guitar line or did.
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I think he still does.
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Les Paul, just amazing guitarist.
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And they went down to listen to Les Paul.
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And his dad went up to Les Paul and said, hey, do you mind?
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That was back in the time where you could get to stars.
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Do you mind if I record this?
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And Les Paul said, no, that s fine.
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So after the session was over, Les says, hey, can we go somewhere and listen to it?
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So they took Les Paul back to their house, little Steve Miller and his dad, and Les Paul listened to it.
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For the next two weeks, they recorded every session, and Les would come back.
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Les ended up staying with this family, the Miller family, for another four or five weeks.
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He got married.
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to his girlfriend at their house.
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Oh, geez.
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I didn t know this.
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His mother said, if you want to learn how to play guitar, just hang around with Les Paul.
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Right, when you re five years old.
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You ll learn it.
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And that s how he learned to play guitar.
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Wow, I didn t know that.
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And I thought, God, if you don t learn it.
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And then his roommate in college was Boz Skaggs.
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I didn t know that either.
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Steve Miller s roommate was Boss Gags.
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It was Boss Gags at University of Wisconsin Madison or somewhere.
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I didn t know that.
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They were both high school, and they were roommates in college.
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So the point there is that I think when we want to be better at something, hanging out with people who are already world class, or at least really good, you ll just get a vibe from them.
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You can just suck out some of that knowledge, and you can put it to use.
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You don t have to have them sit down and actually teach you chords.
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You can just watch them.
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And I know you, you know, you study films and you ve seen in the pro NFL, people who are good are constantly trying to figure out who do I want to surround myself with to be honest.
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God, that s true, isn t it?
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I did not know this story.
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That s great.
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The younger listeners, you ve got to Google these.
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You ve heard this one before, right?
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You probably don t.
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Yeah.
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Boss gags, those are great musicians.
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I didn t know that.
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That s fantastic.
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Yeah, but when you look at a guy like whoever is at the top of their performance, even Tom Brady, I heard him interviewed the other day.
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Great interview.
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You listen to their upbringing, and you re like, well, I can understand why Tom Brady is top.
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Yeah, totally.
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on Brady or less, Steve, because they have intentionally configured their lives and the people they surround themselves with, including coaching, to raise their level.
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Most people won t do that.
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Most people just don t do that.
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Like Bill Gates used to sneak into the library, right, and talk to the professors late about the computer stuff.
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It s like, yeah, so interesting.
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So that leads us to our topic, though, in terms of how to weave it in here.
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So, well, this is the thing.
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I think a lot of salespeople in our culture these days get a lot of, they get a lot of messaging about the word passion.
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And I think it can be very conflictive for salespeople, because everybody runs around town saying,
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You got to do something you re passionate about, do your work, your passion, make your passion, your job.
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And you sell dental supplies.
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And so what you try to do is spend selling dental supplies into a passion for making, enhancing smiles and making people happy.
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It s a stretch.
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It s a bit of a stretch.
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It s like you sell cotton balls.
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Important part of the process, you know, you re a little, you re removed.
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And so, um, I wanted to talk today about,
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how salespeople can frame up the pressure they might feel around doing something they re passionate about.
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And some people could be passionate about selling, and they found their thing.
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Some don t.
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And so I wanted to get your take on that.
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And this was inspired a bit by a conversation I had with someone who s looking for a job, a sales job, who s got a passion outside of that, and a video I saw by Rick Rubens.
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Let me tell you about the video, Bill, and then I want your thoughts here.
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Rick Rubin, if you don t know who Rick Rubin is, it s kind of music day, isn t it?
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But we re going up a decade.
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Rick Rubin was and is a music producer who essentially founded a lot of modern hip hop artists.
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Specifically, he was the sole producer at the time for the Beastie Boys and for Run-DMC when they went mainstream.
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And then he worked on hundreds of other projects later.
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He s also known, people don t know this, he s the one who essentially, if you hear him talk about it, he doesn t use the word bore, but he was looking for something to do.
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And he said, who needs their career reinvigorated?
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And he thought he was listening to a Johnny Cash album.
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He s like, Johnny Cash is like forgotten about.
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He s like on riverboats.
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And you know what I mean?
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He goes, what if I took Johnny Cash and got him in here and produced him with modern music?
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And so Johnny Cash made a resurgence in the early 2000s by rerecording modern songs.
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He did a Depeche Mode song called Personal Jesus that was really popular among young people.
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That s Rick Rubin.
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So what Rick was saying about passion, though, he goes, look, your passion does not have to be your job.
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Your job is there to sustain you with, you know, paying your bills and living and surviving.
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And that can fund a passion that doesn t have to be connected.
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But there s so much pressure to make them both the same, salespeople get stuck.
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They re like, yeah, I m driving around the countryside, you know, selling, uh, you know, commercial tools and they re not passionate about that, but they love baseball.
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So they want to go be a baseball coach, but then they go, well, I can t really coach baseball.
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And, you know, and so I just want to get your thoughts on that bill.
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How do you frame up passion?
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and the pressure to make it your job if you re a salesperson?
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Well, first, everyone needs a Rick Rubin.
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Truth, right.
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Don t they?
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Don t they?
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I mean, not Rick, but a Rick Rubin.
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Truth.
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Yeah, I think you re right.
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I think in the last 15 years, there s been a lot of, there s been a lot of, how do I say this, movement away from business as usual, as they used to call it in telecom, BAU, business as usual.
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I didn t hear, I ve never heard that.
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A, can you find it in what you do?
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Like for you and I, I think it s an it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier, it s an easier.
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And I think to try to say, you know, you just got to put your hand in the meat grinder.
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You got to love making cold calls.
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And it s like, what if I don t?
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What if I really don t?
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I don t like making cold calls.
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I don t make them and never have.
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But, but the point there is, you know, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s, it s,
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Point number one, I think, is can you find it?
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Can you look at your business, your job, in a slightly different way and say, what am I missing here?
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Because I believe that we are all attracted to what we re doing for some reason.
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It might be money.
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It might be fame.
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But most of all, it s the work.
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And there s something about what attracted you to sell what you sell that was attractive.
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And sometimes when we lose that, then we say, well, we ve got to go find something else to do.
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And I m wondering if, well, maybe you re just not looking deep enough.
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Maybe you haven t studied the craft or studied the business or the marketplace.
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Maybe there s something right in front of you, like we talked last week about leveraging assets, that could show itself if you would just chill,
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go to a coffee shop in Amsterdam, have a couple, and think about it and say, what am I missing from my current job?
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So we ll talk about passion of another job.
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But I also think sometimes it s there.
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We just have to search around a little bit more for it.
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That s really interesting.
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I ve never thought about that.
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I ve never thought about looking at what I am doing.
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Because I think we look at it holistically.
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I m making it up.
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So I sell, you know, I sell commercial transportation equipment, you know, or something like that.
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Like, I m not passionate about that.
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But there s something in that that I m passionate about, right?
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It s, I m passionate about, you
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making new sales, selling new logos and feeling like accomplishment or something like that.
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Yeah, big deals.
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I love big deals.
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There you go.
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I love big deals.
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Okay, well, make a study of get serious about studying the big deal, how it works, and how you ve, you know, go back and look at the big deals you ve had.
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I think it doesn t have to be the product.
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You re right.
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I think it could be the process that you go through.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Say that again.
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That s a good one.
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It doesn t have to be the product you sell, cotton balls, communications, but it s the process of landing the big account.
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I think it s OK to say, my passion is for taking somebody who doesn t know that I exist, working them through a process, until which point they say, I ve got to have you.
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I ve got to have you a part of this.
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That s kind of cool.
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Not everybody can do that.
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That s a rare skill.
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That s so good.
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And it could be anything.
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So it could be, uh, you might be passionate about the, um, about, uh, being a connector or a networker.
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Some people love that element of their job, even though they sell a certain thing, but they love the most.
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I know a guy here in Indy who he s in runs an accounting firm.
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He s not passionate about accounting at all, from what I can tell.
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He is massively passionate about connecting other like-minded business people together.
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And because of that, he has a really, really great accounting practice built up.
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He gets some stuff.
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It s a great example.
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It s really, really good.
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So if you re listening, you ve got to take that deep look, like Bill was saying, and say, what elements of the process am I passionate about, not the thing that I might do or sell?
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Yeah, I ve got a client in the dental supply equipment business.
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And he is an individual, and he is really passionate about helping dentists have a longer term plan for their practice.
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Because he says, a lot of times what happens, a dentist calls and says, hey, I need a 3D printer.
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OK, give me a price.
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And he says, there s no plan, there s no strategy.
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And so what he s doing now is he s going into these clients, he s got 500 clients, and he s offering up this three-year package of planning.
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And it s helpful because he s got people back at his home office who are just freaking good at this.
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They re analysts, they look at the patient throughput, and they look at profitability.
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And everybody that he s approached with this, I wouldn t say everybody.
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I don t know.
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But a high percentage of those people say, well, you know what?
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I m going to go ahead and buy my supplies from you.
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Why would I buy them anywhere else?
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He s not selling supplies.
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He s selling a solution that has supplies within it.
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And I can even tell by how you re talking about him, he loves doing that part of it.
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He does.
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He loves that.
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He doesn t like order entry and pricing stuff out.
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He s about, you know.
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helping these people become unlost, so to speak, right?
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It s really great.
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You can give that one to them.
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Let s get back to your point there.
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I think that s a good one about, OK, you ve got something.
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You talked about the pitching or the baseball guy.
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You can tell, can t you, when you re coaching somebody, when they light up.
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Yeah, this guy, the context for you listening, I had a connection call this morning.
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Guy s looking for a gig.
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He s been in medical device and he s been in pharma, been in SAS sales, got four kids, house, you know, that sort of stuff.
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And when I did my research on him, he has this other thing, this pitching academy sort of thing he started off.
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He s like, I m like, tell me about that.
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He started telling me his sales resume.
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I m like, tell me about the pitching thing.
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Totally chill.
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Oh my god.
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I love it that I play baseball in college this I m getting certified but the only certified guy my in my state for this particular type of And he goes and I can t make a lit I can t pay for all the other stuff doing that
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And I think people sometimes look at that as bad.
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And I m thinking, no, that s good, man.
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You can do like Rick Rubin said.
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One of the benefits sales roles have is flexibility and income potential, where you can get really good at selling in a high leverage thing, flashback to last session, and have time then to go do this other thing that is really passionate for you.
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And everyone s happy, right?
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Yeah.
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And you re going to become better at your main job if you re passionate from 7 till 10 at night, because you re creating something that has, you re just going to be better, because you re going to be more detached, because you re going to say, you know what?
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I m building this thing, because at some point, this thing is going to be the thing.
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Totally.
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I just got goosebumps.
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It s very rare we get goosebumps on an advanced selling podcast, but I did.
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I can see it.
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I ve got a jag on, but literally, I never, that s the full, that s right.
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Then everything gets lifted up.
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You re better at selling dental equipment and dental supplies because you re having, you re so fulfilled with this other thing.
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That s right.
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So true.
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Let me give you some more goosebumps here.
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Lay them on me, Billy.
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Can I call you Billy?
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The work contract, to me, has changed a lot in the last 10 years.
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And the work contract used to be, when your parents were growing up, and mine, is get a job, stay with it for 40 years.
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You re going to retire, and you won t have a lot, but you ll have a little.
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And be grateful for the company because they paid you.
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That contract doesn t necessarily fit anymore.
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You might be a salesperson who sells medical devices, but you might also be an entrepreneur that does pitching coaches, and you might have a third side business that you have somebody else run.
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Those kinds of things are happening everywhere today because of the internet and because of your ability to create pretty quickly.
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You can put up a website for pitching, coaching,
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But the point is, I think we have to look at ourselves a little bit more like free agents.
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And I m selling my eight hours a day to the medical device company, but I ve also got some other things that I m interested in.
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And we ve got to get OK with that.
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The problem is, if you re a free agent, you re not going to be able to do that.
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You re not going to be able to do that.
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If your current job wears you out, and you get home at six o clock, and you have seven beers, and you sit down and watch a Netflix series, you will never create that side gig.
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SPEAKER_00
You just won t.
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SPEAKER_00
You won t.
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SPEAKER_00
And then you ll be missing the passion fill, right?
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SPEAKER_00
And then you re miserable again.
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SPEAKER_00
And you got to find your way to these things.
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SPEAKER_00
And I love that that you re right, the employment contract.
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SPEAKER_00
And this is also very open.
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SPEAKER_00
You know, these days, employers are super open to these things.
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SPEAKER_00
Some of some companies even side hustle is something else I then now that we re talking about it, one of my other clients, she s a VP of client success later in her career, she s been like 30 year career.
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She s VP, super smart, knows her business, like, and I m talking to her.
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And she lives down by my parents.
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And I said, I m coming down, dah, dah, dah.
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SPEAKER_00
And she goes, well, you got to stop by my shop.
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SPEAKER_00
I m like, shop?
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SPEAKER_00
What shop?
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SPEAKER_00
She goes, my daughter and I, we own a bakery.
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SPEAKER_00
I m like, huh?
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SPEAKER_00
You guys own a bakery?
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SPEAKER_00
She goes, oh, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
She s my daughter.
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SPEAKER_00
We loved it.
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SPEAKER_00
And this is a very high earning, high level job.
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And this is their passion thing.
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SPEAKER_00
And they do both.
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SPEAKER_00
She s not sitting there going, I m trying to get away from corporate America, so I m going to do this full time.
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SPEAKER_00
She wouldn t do that.
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
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SPEAKER_00
They re both living very, and she was so fulfilled in both.
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SPEAKER_00
Not that you re saying.
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SPEAKER_01
When she, I m sorry to interrupt when she walks in to her clients and bring some baked goods, my daughter and I have a business, the prospect doesn t say, well, you only do this full time.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, I don t want to write opposite.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
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SPEAKER_01
It s the opposite.
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There s almost a certain amount of, you know,
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You know, jealousy or just inspiration.
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Because everybody would love to have a side project that they love, they lose track of time on.
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SPEAKER_00
And I love that.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s a goose bump story.
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SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of goose bumps.
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SPEAKER_00
Today s the day, kids.
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SPEAKER_01
You re driving around the countryside, like getting all teared up.
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SPEAKER_01
Like, man, the Vincelink podcast guys hit me today.
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SPEAKER_00
But don t you think, though, that we have been it has been drummed into us that, oh, no, one job, you can t be a binary choice in your lane, brother, stay in your choice.
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SPEAKER_01
And we ve also been this is what irritates me beyond anything is that you have to do your passion.
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SPEAKER_01
That s it.
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That s gotta be your passion.
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SPEAKER_00
That s right.
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SPEAKER_01
Right.
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SPEAKER_01
So then like, by little like snarky joke, that s why there s so many like broke life coaches running around.
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Because they think their life coaching is their passion.
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And so they get some other life coach that says, hey, quit your job.
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SPEAKER_01
And they quit their job.
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SPEAKER_01
They have no money.
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SPEAKER_01
And they re running around trying to life coach people about money.
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SPEAKER_01
You got no money.
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SPEAKER_01
I m like, keep your job that pays you $200,000 a year and do this on the side.
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SPEAKER_00
That s right.
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SPEAKER_00
So step one is keep your job.
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SPEAKER_00
Step two is find the passion within your job.
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SPEAKER_00
Maybe it s in a place that you haven t looked before.
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SPEAKER_00
And three, then you can step out and do some things on the side.
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SPEAKER_00
You can work.
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SPEAKER_00
I was listening to Mark Andreessen.
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SPEAKER_00
Do you know who he is?
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SPEAKER_00
He was one of the founders of Netscape.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
I always thought his name was Anderson.
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SPEAKER_01
It s Andreessen?
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SPEAKER_00
It s Andreessen.
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SPEAKER_01
I ve always thought his name was Mark Anderson.
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SPEAKER_01
I know exactly who you re talking about.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he was on a podcast.
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SPEAKER_01
Swedish guy, maybe?
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Is he Swedish?
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SPEAKER_00
No, no, he s American American nationality.
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SPEAKER_00
Maybe, but, but he was talking, he said, and this is, I ll conclude with this.
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SPEAKER_00
He said, you know, when I, he s an investor now, cause he s worth billions and he goes into startup companies and invest.
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SPEAKER_00
And he says, here s what I m looking for.
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SPEAKER_00
When I go into a startup company, I m looking for the young person who writes stuff down.
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SPEAKER_00
Podcasts are like, what are you talking about?
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SPEAKER_00
He goes, nobody writes stuff down.
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SPEAKER_00
He said, I want to see the young person who writes down a business plan, who can write a really good email, who writes down their goals.
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SPEAKER_00
If you re not writing it down, then it s not happening.
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SPEAKER_00
And I thought, god, that s so true.
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SPEAKER_00
And it blows back to what we re talking about here, too, blows back or flows back.
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SPEAKER_00
Which would be the idea that, well, if you have a passion for coaching, start writing.
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SPEAKER_00
Write it down.
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SPEAKER_00
Write it down.
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SPEAKER_01
Write your program down.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Write your annual program.
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SPEAKER_01
You want to be a coach?
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SPEAKER_01
Write down your annual program.
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SPEAKER_01
What are we doing in January?
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SPEAKER_01
What are we doing in February?
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SPEAKER_01
And then it s easier then also to do both.
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SPEAKER_01
Versus like, OK, I m going to quit my job, save up five months of cash, burn through it while I m figuring out what my coaching program is.
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SPEAKER_01
That s right.
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SPEAKER_01
That s what people do.
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SPEAKER_01
I m not blaming anyone.
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SPEAKER_01
But that s what people do.
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SPEAKER_01
Because if my passion is over here, you know what I mean?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
So if you do have a side hustle idea or a passion that s outside your business, just start, open a Google Doc and just start bullet pointing.
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SPEAKER_00
What could it look like?
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SPEAKER_00
How could it work?
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SPEAKER_00
What would be, what would I teach in my coaching practice?
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SPEAKER_00
Like you said, month one, month two, month three, just start writing it before you know it.
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SPEAKER_00
It becomes a thing.
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SPEAKER_00
It becomes tangible versus just a theoric idea.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
And do not look at it as an escape hatch.
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SPEAKER_01
That s what I think the essence is.
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SPEAKER_01
I love when you said that, Bill.
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SPEAKER_01
If you do this passion thing and fill that, you will be better at the other one.
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SPEAKER_01
You ll make more money, feed the other one, and both things go up.
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SPEAKER_01
I m even thinking personally, that s what I did.
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SPEAKER_01
I love them both.
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SPEAKER_01
I love football.
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SPEAKER_01
I love the sales thing.
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SPEAKER_00
And you know, as they both make more, I mean, sometimes there s conflicts, but you figure out it s not, and you re fulfilled on both sides.
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SPEAKER_00
So yeah, good topic today.
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SPEAKER_00
So we d like to hear from you.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you want to go to a advanced selling podcast.com slash LinkedIn, if you re not a member of the group already get there, tell us what you think of this, some of these ideas that we shared today.
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SPEAKER_00
Cause I know there s a lot of that in the marketplace today.
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SPEAKER_00
People who are,
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SPEAKER_00
They re doing well.
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SPEAKER_00
They want to do better, but they re not all in.
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SPEAKER_00
They re not 100%.
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SPEAKER_00
And that s totally OK.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the goal is to start to look inside and see how to get there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Go listen to some Beastie Boys and Boz Skaggs for your callbacks.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s it.
2
SPEAKER_00
See you next time.
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SPEAKER_00
Bye.
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SPEAKER_00
Bye.