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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, I share disdain for a popular sporting event song that I think has seen better days, Bill gets punked and sweats right through his shirt, and we walk you through a measure backward exercise and share stories that helped shape our sales careers.
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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I am one Bill Kasky, and this is one the other Brian Neal.
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Welcome, I m glad you re here with us today.
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If you are a new listener, make sure you go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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There s a little link there somewhere on that page that says, make sure you click here if you re a new listener.
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I think we have some of the top episodes that we ve created there, a little bit about Brian and I, if you care, and also you can jump on our mailing list as well.
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So if you re a new listener, make sure you go to advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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A couple of other announcements.
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You ve heard us talk about the Insider.
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This is a wonderful group that we re inviting all of you listeners to join us.
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This is a wonderful community.
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More than anything else, this is a community of like-minded salespeople that get together to improve their own sales skills and support each other and get personal live coaching from me and Bill.
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It meets the first Friday of every month for an hour and 15 minutes.
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We go from noon to 1.15.
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And you re going to be hearing from some people that are members of that here in some future episodes.
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But I will tell you, if you ve got any inkling to make yourself better and you want to invest a little bit of money and a little bit of time to get an exponential return on that, you need to be part of this Insider program.
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So if you go to the website, there s a green button, the big green button.
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Hit on that, Insider, and join us the first Friday of every month.
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And you can join any time.
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You don t have to wait till right before.
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You know, there s a there s a saying in in training and coaching that it it s just that one moment that people have and we talked about this on the last episode and Brian did the facilitation of the last insider which was about Denominating the pain and problems and customers have so that when you introduce price, it doesn t come out of nowhere anyway
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There is always a moment that everybody has in these hour and 15-minute insiders and that moment that thing like oh, that s the realization It s the awakening sometimes of a new way to do things that can carry you almost forever Yes, and I m not saying these things are life-changing but sometimes if you just take a little different approach you can be 1% different and
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And it can mean a lot down the line.
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So we always look for those, what is the one moment you had today or one lesson that you can take with you and really put to use?
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Yeah, it s also a great place if you re a sales leader and you ve got a sales team.
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It s a very, very, very economically friendly place to get some really good coaching.
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If I was a sales manager, I would absolutely sign all my people up for Insider tomorrow.
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It would be really good.
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Today we re recording this on the day of the Men s National Basketball Championship game, so we get to hear the One Shining Moment song tonight, which I don t know your opinion on that.
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I am tired of the song One Shining Moment, and it s the same video every year.
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You know what I mean?
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You got the person crying in the stands.
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You got the big last second shot.
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The first five were really good.
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They were great, right?
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Now we re on year 30.
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We need to spice it up or change the tune a little bit.
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For those of you who don t know what we re talking about, or maybe you re from Europe, we have a men s basketball, college basketball tournament every year in March called March Madness.
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And at the end, at the very final game, right after, there is a compilation of a lot of video clips.
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And it s done to One Shining Moment by, is it Luther Vandross?
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I have no idea.
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I don t know.
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I can t remember the guy s name that does it, but there s several different versions of it floating around Yes, we it s it s really cool a problem is the final games at 920 right Eastern right and that means it gets over at 1230.
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I ain t staying up No, not for one shining moment back in the day back in the day.
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I would have yeah, so we also have a new show Personnel announcement here.
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We re going to welcome for the first time
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Welcome to the listeners, our new executive producer, who is now going by the pseudonym Rad, R-A-D.
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Her name is Rachel.
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We re going to leave it R-A-D, but you re going to be hearing from her and some of you already have, and then some of you will be seeing her
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in the LinkedIn group responding on behalf of us.
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And she s going to be interacting with you and trying to make your listener experience better.
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So say hi to Rachel D. Radd, as she likes to go by, new executive producer for the Advanced Link podcast.
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We re thrilled to have her on board.
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Really glad to have her on board.
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Very, very good.
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You ll be hearing more from her.
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Maybe even get her on the air at some point.
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But I don t know.
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She s shy.
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So we re talking about topic-wise.
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There s a coaching program that I ve been a part of, a guy named Dan Sullivan.
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Bill s mentioned him.
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I ve been a part of his coaching program.
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It s called Strategic Coach.
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Big, big fan of Dan s.
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And he has this little idea that I think is great.
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He calls it measuring backward.
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And his theory is,
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High performance individuals tend to always look forward at what they haven t accomplished yet.
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And they dwell on what they haven t done yet.
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And they forget to look backwards and say, what have I done in my past that s helped me and shaped me and formed me into who I am today?
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And it s a very healthy exercise to do.
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So he teaches you to do it on a regular basis.
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We thought, wouldn t it be cool for us to examine our own sales life, go backwards 20, 30, 40 years for me and Bill.
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and examine a couple things that may have shaped our sails, these pivotal moments.
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Our friend Rob Bell calls them, what does he call them, hinge moments?
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Is that what Rob calls them?
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We have a sports psychologist, Rob Bell, you ve had him on your podcast.
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Doesn t he call them hinge moments?
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I think he does.
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No, I don t remember.
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Could be.
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I think his book s about that.
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Anyway, but you get the idea there.
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These moments in your sales career, but we tend to not forget about them.
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We just move on and keep going.
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Let s go back here in this episode.
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So this would be a reflection for you.
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So you sit there and go, yeah, let me think about that.
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So I ve got a couple.
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You re involved in one of mine, by the way.
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You probably didn t know that, did you?
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I did not.
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I wonder if you remember this or not.
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But I ll tell you that.
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I don t know.
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But yeah, I think this is a good exercise.
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Just to go back in, because we re all shaped by our experiences.
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And you can say your experiences should have nothing to do with who you are today.
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But it does.
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And I don t know how we get away from that.
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So yeah, so my first, can I go first?
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Yeah, please.
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My first negative experience of sales, I was working for a company called Woods Wire, Woods Products up in Carmel.
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We sold extension cords.
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And it was my first sales call.
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And I was down at Clark Distributing in Johnson City, Tennessee.
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And it was a good old boy who was the buyer.
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I cannot remember his name.
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And we were trying to sell tools and testers.
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And tools and testers were like electrical testers.
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And it was literally 18 SKUs.
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For this company, it was probably literally $400 a year.
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I mean, this was a small company.
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It was small.
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But I was sweating bullets because this was my first pitch on this program.
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And I had prepared.
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And I think if I look back, I think, for $400, you could have literally written a check.
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But I prepared.
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And so we went in and pitched the product.
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And the buyer was going to buy the whole time.
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But the rep and the buyer were good buddies.
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So the rep said, hey, let s punk Kasky.
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Let s ask him all these questions.
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And let s say, look, your pricing is way too high.
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You re 50%.
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Let s just see.
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And they just pummeled me with questions.
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And I was sweating.
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I had a blue Brooks Brothers shirt on.
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And it was the most embarrassing thing.
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And at the end, the buyer says, OK, we ll go with them.
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And then I found out later that it was all a big punk.
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But I thought, man, I wilted under pressure.
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That was a matter of I was so concerned with what I was going to get and how I looked in the process that I really didn t care much about the prospect.
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Maybe it could have ended up that they didn t want it because they had an awesome program, I should have been able to say, but I didn t understand detachment and high intent and all that.
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But that was an example of I was so emotionally attached, I was literally sweating through my clothes as we finished that call.
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So I m not proud of that, but that s what happened.
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But you remember that so vividly, don t you?
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And what year would that have been?
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Like... 1982.
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Right.
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I ve been 30 years ago.
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Amazing.
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At least, right?
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Yeah.
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They re 40 years ago.
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That s fantastic.
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So similar... Almost 40 years ago.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Here we go.
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Thanks for reminding me.
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Things we don t... You sure?
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It s always like...
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Where s your math?
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Can you do that math again?
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I know you re really good at math, actually.
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Yeah, so similar.
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Funny that we bring this up.
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So mine was, it s a little bit of a story, but it comes back to a sales lesson.
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I had my first sales job.
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I was working for Procter & Gamble selling everything they make, Downy, Tide, stuff like that, to grocery stores.
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I was single, living in my apartment in Columbus, Ohio.
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And I was having these dreams, these nightmares that people were pouring tide down my throat, and I couldn t breathe.
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I d wake up in the middle of the night sweating, like this.
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And then I would go to make sales calls, and I felt like I was having a heart attack.
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And I m kind of a hypochondriac.
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So I stopped at one of my Kroger stores.
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I m like, my chest was hurting really bad.
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This is a true story.
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I remember this story.
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I called a cardiologist in the phone book and I said, hey, I think I m having a heart attack and I need to come see you guys.
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And she s like, okay, well, tell me about your symptoms because you might need to call 911.
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I m like, I don t think it s that bad, but there s definitely something going on.
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She s like, well, you can t just come to a cardiologist.
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You got to be referred by a doctor.
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So she gave me a name of a guy.
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And so I went to go see him the next day.
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He starts asking me if I m having girl problems.
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And I m like, no, dude, I m having a freaking heart attack.
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Like, help me out here, bro.
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He goes, you re actually having panic attacks.
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That s what this is.
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This is anxiety.
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I m like, huh?
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So yeah, he put me on Xanax.
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And I was taking Xanax like I should.
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And then one day, I was in my sales territory up in Northeast Ohio by Wapakoneta, which is like in a small little town by Lima, Ohio.
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And I took a Xanax before lunch, like I was supposed to, and I ate.
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And then afterwards, I made a sales call.
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I m like, I think I forgot to take my Xanax.
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So I took a second one.
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And I was driving home, and I was like, oh my god.
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And all of a sudden, the road starts to wiggle a little bit.
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I m like, I need to pull over.
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I pulled over and slept in my car for three hours.
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and then threw my Xanax out that night.
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I m like, I can deal with this on my own.
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So I learned about meditation and how to fix that stuff, or just accept anxiety.
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Here s the lesson, though.
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I was so out of who I really was, the way that I was selling, that it caused me so much anxiety that I went on Xanax.
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I was so out of authenticity that the way that I was trained at P&G to be forceful and to beg and fight for everything, and I was so uncomfortable with that that it drove me
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to be in that condition.
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It s amazing how strong that was and that was directly related.
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And that culture, you couldn t buck the culture either.
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No way, quite the opposite.
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You had to flow along with it.
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I was so out of integrity with who I was at that point.
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Horrible, horrible, horrible.
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I don t think that s, I mean, I appreciate you sharing that.
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I don t think that s unusual.
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No, right.
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You recognized it, what if you had not recognized it and continued on Xanax?
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The only reason you got off Xanax was because of the incident.
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If you had not had that incident, you might have kept on Xanax, you might still be with P&G.
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And you might be 700 pounds and a raging alcoholic and mean to your kids because all of that has to have an outlet somewhere, that loss of...
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Yes integrity or whatever you want to call it.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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That s funny I have one that was a positive that helped shape me and that is I we used to call on these large hardware Distributors like ace hardware true value.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and there was one out in Pittsburgh called service star It was American hardware in Butler, Pennsylvania.
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Yeah, not Pittsburgh and
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Every year we would get called out to come quote the business.
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We had two warehouses.
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There were seven warehouses total.
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Our competitor had five, we had two.
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And so we d go out there and they d say, hey, we want you to come out and quote the other five warehouses.
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We re really looking to change this year.
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And we d go out and we d quote them.
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And basically, we d write our own business down.
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Because we would think, well, we ve got to get better at pricing where we are in the two warehouses.
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And then they would come back and say, well, thanks.
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But now that you wrote your business down, that s cool.
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We ll buy it at the new prices.
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We still have the two.
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Competitor still has the five.
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It was a joke.
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Yes.
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And one year, they called in February and said, we want you to come in and quote.
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We re not happy.
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And I said, we re not coming unless we know exactly the nature of the problems you re having with your other supplier, our competitor.
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And so she got on the phone with the merchandise manager.
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We had a call.
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And we got very clear that shipping rates were way down.
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They were not fulfilling.
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It was costing them like $2.5 million a year to do business with this competitor because they weren t getting the goods.
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But they had never told us that before because we had never asked before.
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And we ended up securing an additional three warehouses at the same price.
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So it worked out great, all because we stopped and we denominated the pain, like we talked about last week and we did in The Insider.
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And that was the time where I said, this old selling where we re just, when they say jump, we say how high is not helpful for the prospect.
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It s just not.
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And I love in that story,
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that you said, because you started by saying, well, the reason they never told us that.
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So a lot of people will get pissed at their customer.
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It s their fault.
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You should have told us that.
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And then you did the right thing and said, and the reason they hadn t told us that was because we hadn t asked.
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And that s on us.
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That s a brilliant.
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That is on us.
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And everyone s, you ve got to look in the mirror.
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You have to do that.
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Yeah.
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So my story, similar to what you re involved, I think you ll remember this, was I came to work with Bill on June 3 in 1997.
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And it was about August at this point, June, July, August.
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And I had not closed a deal yet.
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Bill was paying me like a draw against commissions.
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And I was broke.
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And I m like, OK.
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And you said, hey, look, you ve got to get something closed here.
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You re not going to make it in this business.
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And I didn t want that to happen.
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So I got my first deal at the end, a company called Milholland Conrad, a little contracting business in Noblesville, Indiana.
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And I m dealing with one of the owners, Bill Milholland, I think it was.
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Felt really great about it, so I kind of went to the last meeting.
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He s like, OK, this is good.
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And he s got six or seven salespeople.
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Wanted to do a full day training.
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It was great.
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Everything s good.
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And I m like, I got my first deal.
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This is great.
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go back, got a call with him the next day.
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This is pre-computers, pre-cell phone, so we re doing landline stuff.
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He said, hey, just don t call me back.
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And I m like, OK, we re good to go.
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And he goes, yeah, I don t think we re going to move forward.
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It just doesn t feel right to us and just don t think it s going to work out.
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And I was devastated.
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So I told you, and you said, I don t know if you remember this, you said, call him back.
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And I m like, what?
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I m not going to call him back.
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He just told me no.
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and you re like, call him back and let s go see him.
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We wanna go talk to him.
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So the first lesson there was just because it s over doesn t mean it s over.
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If you have good intention, which I think in this case, you knew a little bit about the deal.
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You knew that this day for his salespeople could be really helpful to him.
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You weren t trying to get a deal, you know?
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And so it gave me the
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like you said in a couple episodes a few weeks ago, the courage to have the guts to call a guy back, even though we ve done, said, hey, can we, this is, I want to keep talking here.
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This didn t end well.
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We think we can do some good work.
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And then we went to go see him, and you did a really good job of stripping away some of the things he was concerned about and addressing those specifically.
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I didn t do that.
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I didn t ask him the why nots.
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I do not remember that.
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I don t remember going up there.
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I remember the situation, but I don t remember going up there.
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So whether you came in to close a deal for me, either way, I don t care about that.
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I was very thankful for all that.
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But the lessons that it taught me were so invaluable.
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That you can go back, if your intention is good, and you feel like you can be helpful to someone, you can go in and share that and tell them that.
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And you can address things really open.
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And one of the concerns he had was I was pretty young.
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I was 27 at the time.
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And his average age of sales team was like 55.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that was a concern.
1
SPEAKER_00
Even though I still did the deal, I think seeing you were a little bit older, it s like, OK, that helped.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I didn t know that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we just need to address that stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
There should be no fear in that.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m sure you have some clients get hung up on their age.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re like, well, you know, I don t know if they respect me, because I m only, I m like, who cares?
1
SPEAKER_00
So it taught me lots of lessons.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I ended up getting, that was my first deal I got, Milholland Conrad back in 1997.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I do remember him.
1
SPEAKER_00
For some reason, I can picture him.
1
SPEAKER_00
He was great.
1
SPEAKER_00
He was really great.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really great guy, real open, really nice guy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it was the right thing, because we had a great day.
1
SPEAKER_00
The sales team was really great.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it was the right move to do.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think had you not done that, I never, ever would have called the guy back.
1
SPEAKER_00
Never would I have called the guy back.
1
SPEAKER_00
And probably wouldn t have gotten the first deal and wouldn t have made it in this business.
1
SPEAKER_00
Guaranteed.
1
SPEAKER_00
Hinge moment.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m serious.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s a big deal.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
So maybe the lesson here for listeners is to go back and just reflect back to some of those situations, the valleys and the mountains, because they both contribute to who we are today.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we learn so much from the valleys and the misses and the failures.
1
SPEAKER_01
We just learned so much.
1
SPEAKER_01
And also, I think that kind of the way Brian started was this idea of looking back and appreciating how far you ve come as a sales professional, as a human being.
1
SPEAKER_01
We have come so far, and we rarely look back.
1
SPEAKER_01
We re always looking at the next mountain and the gap between where we are and where we want to go and the horizons out there.
1
SPEAKER_01
We ve got to get more.
1
SPEAKER_01
We ve got to get better.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes I think it s helpful to reflect on your accomplishments.
1
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you ll see when you do this, like we just did.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we just did this episode, no planning.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I m already having these really good feeling vibes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I feel better.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m like, man, this is great.
1
SPEAKER_00
It just is a great reminder for everyone.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s good therapy.
1
SPEAKER_00
So great exercise to go back, absolutely, and do your own version of this and find out the peaks and valleys in your own sales career and see what you can pull back from them and pull them up into today.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that s it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Go ahead.
1
SPEAKER_01
Also, if you are interested in the Insider program, you want to improve your skills, your career, and your outcomes, go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash insider.
1
SPEAKER_01
The calendar is there for the next couple of months.
1
SPEAKER_01
Also, I think there s a video there that tells you a little bit more about it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I know you hear us talk about it a lot, so make sure you go to that page.
1
SPEAKER_01
See if it s right for you.
1
SPEAKER_01
It may not be, and it may be.
1
SPEAKER_01
But we would love to have you a part of that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Our goal is to get this group up to 100 to 150 people.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it s going to be really good for everybody to have a little bit larger group.
1
SPEAKER_01
So we will see you on the Insider.
2
SPEAKER_00
It meets the first Friday in the month, so May is coming up very soon.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
All right.
2
SPEAKER_00
See you then.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bye.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bye.