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Welcome to the Sell or Die podcast.
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I m your host, Jeffrey Gittler.
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Well, in this podcast, we re going to help you attract more qualified, unbelievable, ready to buy clients.
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And the one thing you re hoping for, blows more deals.
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It s time to sell or die.
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Diehards, welcome to this edition of Sell or Die.
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We re here with the great Tony Durham, who geographically undesirably lives in Greenville, South Carolina, where you can get there until you get there, and then it takes you half an hour to get into the damn town.
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But the challenge is he is in the employment business and he has done it industrially and medically and putting himself into a position where he has become very well known, has a bunch of branches, has great branch managers, has great leadership.
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has great people working with him, has become very successful in a business that has to walk on eggshells.
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And I don t know whether you do this or not, but I would go to the farmer s market every week, get a bunch of eggs, cook them, but save the eggshells.
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So you can take them over to your places of business and say, dudes, walk on these this week and everything will be fine.
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I agree.
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Crazy, isn t it?
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Yes, sir.
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And full disclosure, Tony and I are actually friends.
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So, I don t want that to in any way impact you or impact your feelings.
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But I m going to tell you, he knows what he s doing.
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He s a great leader.
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He takes no shit from no sailors.
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But he s honest and fair.
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And I think that that is as good a description as I can give.
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But he s also, well, we ll talk about that as the episode goes.
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So, please help me welcome the great Tony Durham.
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We re speaking to one person at a time.
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The audience, the typical podcast listener listens by himself or herself.
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So they re on their earphones, they re going back and forth to work, and they re wondering, number one, how do I qualify for a better job?
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How can I get a better space in this world?
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Which is what you provide many times.
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You ve enhanced people s careers significantly.
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But on the other hand, you have these HR people listening, they don t want their people stolen away from them.
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Well, let me give you news and you can corroborate it or not.
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The people that are vulnerable to leave will leave.
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The people that are not vulnerable to leave will hang up on you if you call them.
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Exactly.
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That s a fact.
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So let s talk about that for just a little bit.
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I don t want to have somebody from HR going, they stole my best person.
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No, they didn t steal your best person.
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You were vulnerable to lose your best person.
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Yeah, if that was your best person, you should have been treating them like they were your best friends.
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Exactly.
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And you wouldn t have had to worry about getting them phished from you.
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Underpaid, underappreciated, and overworked are probably the formulas that make people vulnerable, correct?
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It is.
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And believe it or not, the one that far outweighs the others is the underappreciated.
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Yeah, I would say that as well.
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Without a doubt.
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Uh, they can monetize the money and the benefits and everything, but they can t monetize the appreciation.
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And that s where you come in as their boss or the leader of the company or whatever.
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And you ve got to show that severe appreciation to them as often as possible in any way possible.
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And it will go light years beyond what a raise will do about keeping them with your company.
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I totally agree.
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But people will say, well, it s all about the money.
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It s not all about the money.
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It s all about the environment.
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It s all about the appreciation.
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It s all about the gratification that you get when you do a great job and someone acknowledges you.
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I mean, there s some things that go into it.
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And money is certainly in the mix, but it s not at the top of the pile.
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It s not, it s really not.
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And you know, when you hear people say that it is, you realize how they have not yet reached the pinnacle in their profession for them to still think that.
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You re like, you don t understand it.
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You don t understand the people.
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You might understand what it takes to be a mechanic or a doctor or a lawyer, but you don t understand the people that work for you, for you to make that statement because you re wrong.
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You know, and they often will say to me, Jeffrey, well, what makes you any different?
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I m like, well, in the last 30 years, I ve employed over 35,000 people and dealt directly with those.
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How many have you actually employed?
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Because I doubt you ve employed a percentage of that and seen and dealt with to have this much experience to say, this is the main problem.
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Yeah, I ll tell you, I have a lot of experience in employing and disemploying.
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I probably hired and fired 1000 people in my lifetime, but it s only 1000.
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That s 50 years of business.
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Yeah.
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So if you ve hired 25,000 people, just think about that.
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It s a town, you ve hired the whole town.
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And I don t know how many people are in Greenville, but you re close to the population.
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Yeah, we will average anywhere from 3,500 to 6,000 W2s a year.
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And, you know, the thing about it is, is about a vast majority of those are the same people every year.
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But then there ll be some of them that s constantly changing because they haven t yet figured out what they want to do in life.
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And you know, there s a place for those people.
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Don t get me wrong.
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Some people just don t know what they want to do yet.
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And they need an opportunity to get paid and live, et cetera, until they know.
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They re exploring what could be for them.
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And you give them that opportunity in companies that want them.
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But here s the kicker.
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If you re looking for a career and you go to an agency that can help you get a job and you may not like the job, that doesn t mean you don t do your best.
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Absolutely not.
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You re going to have to go to another job and somebody s going to give a report on what you did or what you didn t do.
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And you can t say, well, I didn t really like it.
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That s bullshit.
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You have to you have to do your best no matter if you like it or not.
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And that actually speaks more to your integrity than when you re working somewhere you really like.
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If you re working and give it your all, it s something that perhaps you don t really like.
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That speaks volumes of your integrity of the person you are.
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So when you find the right location and the right setting, then you re truly going to blossom.
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But if you didn t do your best when you weren t in the best situation.
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Yeah.
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You know, that, that, that speaks to, to an issue within you that somebody has got to help you improve on.
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You got to go home and ask your mommy what you were supposed to do versus what you did.
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Exactly.
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So, let me go back historically and talk about a couple of things.
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First of all, we knew each other before we knew each other.
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That s a big one.
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And number two, when we first spoke on the phone, I got invited to give a talk at your company at a time when it was kind of COVID-y, it was kind of
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weird in the world and everyone was scared to death about what was going to happen.
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And you mentioned, have you ever done anything on moral compass?
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And I said, no, but I certainly know what it is.
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And I thought to myself, here s the guy who s giving me a clue about what he wants to have done in his talk without giving me a directive.
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like, hey, throw in some stuff about moral compass.
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And I made my whole talk about it, because I knew that it was important to him.
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And the moral of this diehard is when you get a phrase from a customer of yours, and they give you a clue as to what they re looking for,
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you make sure that you don t ignore the clue.
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You make sure you don t make light of the clue because it s coming from somebody that that s their product.
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That s the core of their process.
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We haven t fully made this happen yet, but I can promise you moral compass is becoming more and more of a process as you look at events that unfold around the world of people that don t have moral compass, of people that weren t raised the right way, of people that don t do the right thing all the time, of people that aren t proud of what they did.
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They wouldn t go home and brag to their mom
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Hey, well, I guess what I did today.
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And you see it in department stores where people are taking things that don t belong to them, or drug stores that people I mean, where were these people raised?
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For God s sakes?
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That s not one of the jobs that you have, right?
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Looting.
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It might have been it might have happened on job or two over the years.
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Official.
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It s unbelievable and it s commonplace.
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It s almost like you see it and you re not even outraged by it anymore.
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Because it s so, the more you get West or the more you get into New York, the more it seems to happen.
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But I m telling you, it s starting to spread to places that you wouldn t believe.
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It just happened in Charlotte the other day.
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It s disgusting.
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It is.
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And not that we re any, you know, beacons of piety.
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Both of us have probably broken at least two or three of the commandments, at least.
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Yeah, exactly.
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My statement is I ve never killed anybody, but I think that s about it.
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Yeah, but I m not dead yet.
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No chance.
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No chance.
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But this is the point, Diehard.
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I want you to look at your own morality and say to yourself, how is this affecting the way I do business?
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Whether it s as an employee or as an employer, what are you doing that you re proud of?
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What are you doing that you re telling your mom, hey, mom, look what I did.
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It was the best day I ve ever had at this job.
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And I ll tell you, I ve just listed some of my real estate with a pretty big real estate company, Christie s, if you know who they are.
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They re pretty big.
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That s pretty big, yeah.
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Compass is set on amazing.
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They have been more proactive with helping me, with talking to me, with encouraging me, with telling me what they re going to do in advance.
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And then the other day they had like a party or something for some of their brokers and they invited me.
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Who do you invite me for?
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Because you re a client and you re potentially important to us and we want you to meet some of these other people.
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Networking in the South is way different than networking in the North.
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Many diehards, you don t understand this, but Tony speaks fluent Southern.
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Very, very, unfortunately, very.
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If you don t understand some of the words that he s saying, you can put them in the chat and I ll try and interpret them for you.
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When he says like, it means like.
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Yeah.
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Look it up in the redneck book of English.
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It s in there somewhere.
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Yeah.
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But the bottom line is, he has integrity.
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He actually reeks of integrity.
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And that carries on in his entire company with all the people that work there, with all the people that are employed there, and with that he is employing as those people, that message is passed on.
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And that reputation is what gets him repeat business.
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You don t have to ask for it.
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You just get it.
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I talked to Art Welling this morning.
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He s on fire.
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Oh, yeah, he always is.
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Yeah, but I mean, he s, he s on fire.
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Just particularly now he s, he s killing it.
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And the reason he s killing it is he does the right thing.
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Yep.
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All the time.
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All the time.
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Not some of the time, not like on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, seven days a week, 24 seven.
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Yep.
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When you meet somebody like that, you instantly respect who they are and want to be involved with what they do.
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Yep.
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And his clients pick up on it immediately.
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And so that s why they won t be repeat thoughts all the time.
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Because they trust his judgment on what he s going to do for them.
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And they trust when he can t do something, he ll call them in advance and tell them.
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Yep.
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That s the whole deal.
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Absolutely.
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And it s all cards on the table.
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Communication, it cannot be overvalued.
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Now, not everybody does it, and it s not 100%, but when it s your mission to be able to make it happen, you make it happen.
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I m going to throw something at you.
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I was just in Los Angeles, and I did a thing for the Porn Brokers Association of California.
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Have you been in a porn shop?
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Yes, I have.
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Okay.
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Well, I had not, I d never been in a pawn shop in my life.
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So I got invited and I talked to the people.
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They re amazing.
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They re actually amazing places of business that do it honorably.
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Well, I had one of my friends in LA pick me up at the airport and we went to a place called the Apple Pan.
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The Apple Pan is a hamburger place that has three bests in the world in one little shabby restaurant.
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They have the best hamburger in the world.
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They have the best apple pie in the world.
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And they have the best banana cream pie in the world.
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Now, Tony and I, we are foodies.
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Yes, we want the best food humanly possible.
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Don t look don t don t have to think about it.
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Just look at us.
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But the bottom line is this place reeks of service and quality.
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Their motto Tony is quality forever.
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Now tell me that doesn t tell you something about the business before you ever walk in the door.
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Absolutely.
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They ve been in business since 1947.
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I was talking about him today.
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I have, I stole the menu and hamburgers are now $10 and 25 cents.
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They used to be four and a quarter, but that s what inflation will do.
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And either you want it or you don t, I m not going to say it was too expensive.
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I m not going to buy that anymore.
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No, it s when I, when my wheels hit the ground on an airplane, it s the first place I go the first place.
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And you ll see movie stars in there and you ll see motorcycle gang.
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members, and you see like the whole run of society in there.
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But here s the deal.
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It s not just quality forever.
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This is something that anybody can gain from.
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Hey, waiter, can I have another Coke right away?
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Waiter, can I get a piece of apple pie right away?
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Waiter, I need my check right away.
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Now, he s not telling me when it s going to get done.
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He s also telling himself when he s going to do it right away.
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They have a process in that place that they ve been doing for the better part of 70 years, and it works.
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They have employees.
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I said to my waiter, how long have you been here?
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He said, not long.
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I said, how long?
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He said, 28 years.
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Oh, my goodness.
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There s people been there longer.
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Wow.
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So evidently, they make good money, but they serve like crazy.
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They know exactly what to do.
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And they never have anything given back to them that this is not good enough.
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It s always amazing.
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And it costs no extra money.
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Well, maybe a few extra pennies to be amazing.
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But there s no plates.
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There s no, you know, it s hamburgers, French fries and a Coke.
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I mean, that s that s a piece of apple pie, of course.
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which if you don t have that, you re just not a human being.
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And sometimes I get apple pie and banana cream pie because they re the best.
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But think about what you do diehard.
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Is your stuff quality forever?
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Is your service quality forever?
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Are you gonna go back to the place that you love and are people coming back to you?
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That s what you have to ask yourself.
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And if they re not, why or why not?
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Do you have a percentage of people that come back to you?
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Do you know what that percentage is?
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at any given time on any week over well over 50% of our client user base that week will have been previous users.
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Well over 50% in any week ever chosen.
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That s incredible.
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Yeah.
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And then you have to ask yourself, okay, why does that happen?
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And if you dissect it all the way down, it s going to be because you did what you said you were going to do.
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You did it when you said you were going to do it.
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And everything was quality all the way through.
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People that you deal with, the invoices that you send out.
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And this is what I ve found in my life.
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And you can corroborate it if you want.
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You do business with somebody for a couple of years, you re allowed to make a mistake without losing the customer.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Because there s going to be things that s going to go amiss at some point for some reason that s out of your control.
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And they just have to trust you that they know you re going to make it right.
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And you re going to do so.
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And they know that.
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And Diehard, do you think that when you hear someone speaking with a Southern accent that they re more believable and more likable?
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And the answer is,
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Yeah, you re somebody talking with a Philly accent.
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You don t trust them no matter who the hell they are.
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And a New York accent, even worse.
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But a southern accent, you know they re going to be a good guy.
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They re going to be, I can t explain it, but I ve lived here for 35 years and I would way rather deal with a southerner than a northerner.
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I m just, it s been my experience.
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I ll put it that way.
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Now let s talk about moral compass for just a little bit.
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How d you come up with that process or that thought?
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Well, it was just a thing that I ve always here at the office when
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Because you set certain things in place that have to be done a certain absolute way.
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And then beyond that is a piece that employees get to decide how they want to do it.
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They put their own DNA on it.
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And you can give them instructions and everything.
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But what I ve always tried to tell them is when you make a decision to do something,
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Always do the right thing.
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When you don t know, what should I do?
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Ask yourself, what would you want them to do for you?
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And then do the right thing.
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Because I ll never get upset with you for doing the right thing.
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And I promise you, the client won t be upset with you.
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So that s a win-win.
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So just always defer to doing the right thing.
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And that was why I wanted to when we got together that time about it, I wanted to do the moral compass layout because it s a it s a way of doing our living our lives.
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And we spend too much of our life at work.
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So they overlap each other, how you live and how you work.
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Those cannot be separated.
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I don t care what anyone ever tells you.
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It can t be separated.
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If you re a good person, you re a good person.
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Not just when you re at the house or just when you re at church, you re a good person seven days a week, 24 hours a day.
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So I m going to throw this at you, Diehards.
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Tony said that he tells his people to do the right thing.
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What he means is, and I m just going to put a comma at the end of it and say, do the right thing all the time.
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Because if you only do it when someone s looking, or you only do it when you have to, or you only do it when it s the most expedient thing to do, and that s the way you can resolve an issue, that s bullshit.
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What you have to do is, it s in your DNA, it s in your upbringing, it s in the way your parents handled you, it s who you ve become as a person, regardless of what adversities you faced.
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Do the right thing all the time is part of how I was raised and part of how Tony was raised.
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And I believe that s part of our friendship.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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And it s easy to spot because you don t have to remember what you said.
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You always kind of tell the truth.
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And that way your memory is real long.
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Yeah.
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And, you know, there s there s three pieces to doing the right thing.
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I tell them always do the right thing by the person that s first and foremost
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on the front line, and that s the field employee who s working.
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He s the guy that s out there doing the work every day, do the right thing by him, okay, first and foremost, then step back and do the right thing by our client, and then make sure you re doing the right thing by the company.
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And there s no way that those three things should ever
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I m going to be putting a position to where they all three work together.
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As long as you maintain the right attitude about it.
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Exactly.
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So what Tony just said, that s the, that s the down under truth.
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You have to do the right thing by yourself.
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First, and then you can do the right thing by other people all the time.
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You treat yourself right.
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Don t put yourself in a compromising position where you, well, should I say this to this person or not?
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No, dude, if it s the right thing, you just say it.
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If it s the right thing, you just do it.
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And, well, I sure hope I don t get in trouble.
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You know what?
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If you have to worry about getting in trouble, you re doing the wrong thing.
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You re at the wrong place.
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at the wrong time.
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So these are solid business lessons, Dayard.
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This is not about how to make a sale.
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This is about how to keep a customer.
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And that s more important than making one sale.
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When you get a customer, you don t want to lose them because you didn t tell them the right thing, because you didn t deliver what you promised, because you didn t do what you said you were going to do.
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Whatever the circumstances are, you become vulnerable to lose that customer because of your actions.
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or because of your words.
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And, you know, we ve all lost somebody at some point in our lives.
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But the lesson that you learn from doing it means don t repeat it.
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When you lose one, that s a very valuable thing, too.
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There s value in losing things, because then you got to go back and you got to look, why did I lose that person?
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Was there anything that I did that could have stopped this from going to that path?
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And was that did I contribute to the negative scenario that meant we lost
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that client or employee.
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And so that s the time for introspection and to, you know, improve yourself, you know.
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And sometimes you re dealing with a customer and the customer is angry and they re not angry at you.
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They re just angry people.
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They may have a kid who s got a problem.
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They may have a car payment that they just missed, but whatever the circumstances are, they re going to take it out on you.
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And you re thinking, Oh my God, what did I do?
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And the answer is nothing.
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And you may just be a good listening, but you know, like, pal, you really sound like I can help you because you re not happy.
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And I don t have any happy pills, but we can talk all you want.
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Over your shoulder is my little gold book of yes attitude.
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Send one of those.
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Exactly.
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There it is.
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I know you need one of these.
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I literally have signed books to people when they piss me off.
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I send them a gold book and I say, look, you need this as bad as anyone I ve ever met and sign it and send it to him for free.
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I probably have a hundred thank you notes for doing that.
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Maybe more, but at least a hundred.
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And you d be amazed what you can do when you give somebody something that they re not expecting.
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It s just a random act of kindness.
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And obviously people are, you know, a lot of people just don t have a good day.
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in the past, you know, there ll be regular bonuses or commissions for certain things that happen.
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But you get more appreciation when I just have walked into an office, and for no reason, for somebody that worked there, walked over and said, hey, yeah, what s going on, Patricia?
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You doing good?
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Yeah, hey, let me see.
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Hey, there s a
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Get something up and got more appreciation out of giving somebody something for actually no specific reason Yeah, and I have gotten more emails back from people that told me you just don t know what that meant to me Yeah, you know and I do that all the time.
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I literally do it all the time and I
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It gives me, I have to admit, it gives me a good feeling for them to feel that way.
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But you can tell that the people just so much appreciate it because they got something they were not expecting.
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It s almost like a surprise party, you know?
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But it shows them that I care about their effort.
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I usually do it for those that are in the more menial jobs, I would say, than perhaps higher management, you know?
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And they really appreciate it.
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And just knowing that I took enough time to care about the fact that they re giving their time to us, you know?
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What Tony just did, you guys, is a random act of kindness.
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And he put himself out there, which requires forethought.
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Like he knew who he was going to give that gift to.
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Before he went there, he had this person in mind.
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You can do it yourself.
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When you go to the airport to check in, go to the front curb and give, you know, the curb guy,
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The guy that, you know, the handler guy, give him 20 bucks.
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You may not, it s unbelievable.
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They re called skycaps, but really what they are is they re people that are working for tips.
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And it s unbelievable what people don t do.
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And Tony just said it.
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It doesn t just make the other person feel great.
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It makes him feel great.
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I feel great when I do something.
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When I do that random act of kindness and I try to do one a day, minimum one a day, when I do that, I feel like a million bucks, even though it costs me a few bucks.
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It s crazy how life works like that.
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But if it s not in your heart, it s not in your mind.
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No, exactly.
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And I think that s what moral compass is all about as well.
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It s here, not here.
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You re exactly right.
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So what are we going to do now over the course of the next two years until we get leadership in this country?
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We have to stay the course.
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I mean, when there s any kind of disruption or volatility, what you have to do is that s when you have to stick the rudder deepest in the water.
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and stay the course.
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Don t go off course.
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You do the things that you know are successful.
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There s two or three things to that.
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One of them is have a great amount of activity.
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And if you re not being successful, the first thing I tell anyone, no matter how busy they are, if you re not being successful, raise your activity.
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And then have a great sense of urgency when you do hit something.
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and make sure you go after it and you supply the client with the
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kind of attentiveness that they need immediately or the employee immediately, anyone, just make it as important to you as it is to them.
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Yeah.
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You have to recognize also diehard that just because you are important to them does not mean that they are important to you.
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And the reason you re not is you haven t put yourself in that position.
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You haven t made yourself important.
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You haven t made yourself valuable.
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You think you re in sales when in fact you re in human resources.
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Yep, exactly.
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So I want to thank Tony Durham from Condustrial for those of you who are looking to be able to find somebody or hire somebody.
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And we ll have some stuff in the footnotes in the chat, whatever, when this podcast goes out online.
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But more importantly, you ve just been given a life lesson, Diehard, not a business lesson and not a sales lesson.
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although business and sales are included, you got the life things that you need to be able to conduct yourself in a way that others will be proud of and your mom would be proud of.
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That will automatically make you be proud of.
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So, fun to play with you.
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Fun to be with you.
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Always.
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It s fun to be with you.
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Love you.
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You know that.
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I love you too.
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But, Diehard, I want you to have a great day today.
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Remember, stay away from idiots and do the right thing all the time.
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Tony, pleasure to have you.
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Yes, sir.
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I appreciate you having me.
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You guys take care of yourselves.
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We ll see you soon.