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Hey, Advanced Selling Podcast listeners, Bill Kasky here.
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Happy New Year to you.
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Hope you had a great holiday season.
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And Brian will be back next week.
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We ll be in tandem again.
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But we ve got a special treat for you this week.
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A couple of weeks before the holidays, we were interviewed by a guy by the name of Jeff Shore.
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Jeff s really a good guy.
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He has a podcast called The Buyer s Mind, and he publishes every week.
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And it s a very good podcast.
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He interviewed Brian and I for it.
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So we just thought that we recorded it and we just thought you d like to hear it as well.
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He had some really good questions for us, maybe questions that we ve never asked each other or questions that we ve never answered on the air in the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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So we thought it might be an interesting treat for you.
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So without further ado, here is the interview that Jeff Shore did with Brian and I on the Buyer s Mind podcast.
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Well, we re going to do something a little different today on the buyer s mind because, um, we ve actually got not one, but two guests at the same time.
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And for many of you who are listening and you re, for those of you who are podcast junkies, and especially if you are a podcast junkie and in the sales world, well, my guests are going to need absolutely zero introduction at all because they are the hosts of the wildly successful podcast, the advanced selling podcast,
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Thrilled to have them on The Buyer s Mind.
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Welcome to Bill Kasky and Brian Neal.
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Or perhaps Brian Neal and Bill Kasky.
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I don t want to start any turf wars over here.
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But B&B, how s it going?
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We like B&B.
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We respond well to that.
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It s alphabetical.
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We debate.
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Our agents hash this out between the two of them.
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So we land in a good spot.
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But that s fine.
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We re glad to be here, Jeff.
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It s in the contract somewhere.
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Just take us back to the very beginning, because you ve been doing the Advanced Selling Podcast for quite some time now.
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I mean, just 600 episodes.
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That s rare air for most podcasts today.
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So many of them come and go.
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But how did you start the podcast?
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Take us back to the origin.
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Well, Brian and I are both radio geeks.
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And we were driving to Chicago one day, and we started to compare notes about when we were in high school.
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And a lot of our paths were the same, even though I m 100 years older than he is.
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And we both loved radio.
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We both loved music.
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We both loved just the whole radio scene.
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And so we thought, well, we should be on radio.
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So we got a radio show here in Indianapolis on a 10,000-watt station, WXNT.
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We called it Business 360.
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It was Saturday at noon.
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probably the number one drive time, Saturday at noon.
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And I don t know if we had five listeners, but we didn t have very many.
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But we did it for about a year.
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And Brian got, he was a Big Ten football official.
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And so guess what day Big Ten football is on?
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It s on Saturday.
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So for about six months of the year, I was kind of winging it alone.
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And I said, yeah, we both said this is not working.
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So somebody introduced us to podcasting, said you don t have to worry about timing.
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You don t have to worry about
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all that other stuff.
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And so we got into it 13 years ago in 2005.
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And we re 650 some episodes in.
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And we love it.
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And this is proof that you don t have to be good at anything.
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You just have to start sooner and just keep doing it over and over.
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That s right.
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Because people say, how did your podcast get so big?
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Literally, part of it is we just outlasted everybody.
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We just continued to do it.
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Like I said earlier, we ve got 650 free episodes.
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And we actually do absolutely love it.
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We love the process.
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We love our listeners.
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And it s a great, great medium.
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Well, one of the things that you do quite well, and I know many of our audience members are familiar with the Advanced Synthetic Podcast, is that the tone is, it s sort of, what s the old saying, right?
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We take our business seriously, ourselves less so.
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We ve got all of the stress and aggravation and negative environment that we want in our sales job day after day.
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Sometimes it s a breath of fresh air to hear something that s just a little bit more, hey, can we all just sort of like take a chill pill and relax a little bit?
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Was that part of your strategy from the very beginning to get your listener to step away from the mayhem and the chaos a little bit and just kind of kick your feet up a little bit?
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Yeah, no doubt it was on purpose.
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We always decided that we wanted to be just ourselves.
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We didn t want to do a shtick.
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We didn t want to yell at people and scream through the mic.
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It wasn t going to be a walk on hot coal sort of deal.
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And we wanted to let them in on our real lives, too.
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And so we just think by just the natural openness, the genuineness of who we are as people, we don t take ourselves seriously, that we ve
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of all the comments that we ve gotten over the years, the one that s consistent the most is, I feel like I know you guys.
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I feel like I could hang out with you.
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And so that was on purpose.
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And at the same time, it wasn t difficult, because we d just be us.
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And if you came and sat in the office with us and hung out and went to lunch with us, you d be like, yeah, you guys are kind of like the same thing when you turn the mics on in the morning.
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Yeah, and I think one thing that s kind of, oh, that s OK.
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Sorry to interrupt.
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The idea that Brian and I come into the studio.
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We meet, let s just say, at 9 o clock on Monday.
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And we say, what s happening in your world?
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And he says, hey, I just had a client who s really struggling with their message.
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And we say, OK, let s do one on messaging.
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And he comes up with two or three things.
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I come up with two or three things.
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No script.
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I mean, it s never scripted.
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But we do have some bullet points of things that we think it s important for our audience to hear.
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So in 15, 20 minutes, we have a podcast outlined, produced, and done.
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And then we hand it to Travis, who takes it from there.
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So it really is a fun process.
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And I think the secret there is to not over-analyze it and over-prepare.
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there s a direct connection then over to what salespeople should be doing, right?
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You, you, you two talk about being yourselves and not trying to put on this persona or it s, it s not, it s, it s just two people who are being very, very real.
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And yet, what do we see?
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We see salespeople who sometimes think that they have to be somebody else, usually because they learned something bogus in a training session that says, if you say these words, these words all the time, you re, you re,
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And so we have salespeople that are a different human being.
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And I m going to guess, I ve never heard it from you directly, but I m going to guess that two of you would say, for God s sake, no, be yourself.
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You re the best at the world at being yourself.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Early on in my dating career, my girlfriend said, I worked for Procter & Gamble right out of college, and she used to tell me that I had a P&G voice.
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I m like, what are you talking about?
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She goes, you change your voice when you talk on the phone for work.
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I m like, no, I don t.
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She goes, yeah, you do.
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And then I started paying attention to that.
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And I did.
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I did the whole radio jockey voice like you just did.
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The phone would ring in the morning, and I d clear it out like, hello, this is Brian.
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Can I help you today?
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Brian, Procter & Gamble.
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Can I sell you some diapers or toilet paper?
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And it was so not real.
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And the whole thing was a shtick, because I was taught that I had to be this way, say these things.
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And people can see right through all that these days.
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The other thing is that takes effort.
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It takes no effort to be me.
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Some are like it, some hate it, but it s effortless.
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It takes lots of effort to pretend to be somebody else.
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Yeah, sometimes in class, we will role play with people.
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And if they re not familiar with our stick, the way we start by saying, okay, I m the buyer, you re the seller, let s hear it.
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And they magically transform, like Brian said, into this
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There s somebody else, somebody different.
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And I would say, OK, now just talk to me like I m Bill.
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Just forget about the role play.
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Just talk to me.
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And they go back to the perfect voice.
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I call it the perfect voice.
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The perfect voice is your voice.
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It s not the manufactured persona voice like you said, Jeff.
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It s just be who you are.
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If that s not good enough, then maybe you either ought to get out of the sales organization or out of your company, or it s not a prospect.
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You know, I love the idea of in a trading session, I ve seen this happen many, many times, where perhaps it s time to ask for the sale.
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It s time to invite somebody to buy.
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And I always tell salespeople at that point, it s like, I don t know what script you re trying to memorize right now, but certainly not mine.
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But think about what s just happened here.
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You ve just spent 60 minutes, 90 minutes, maybe two weeks talking to these people.
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If you don t like them and they don t like you now, you have a fundamental problem that goes far deeper than whether or not you can ask for a close.
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Just, this is a friend of yours.
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Just ask like you would ask your sister.
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Come on, it s not that hard.
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Let s just do it.
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Like, there s no reason to dance around it.
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Like if I like you, let s go.
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You know, it s good.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Are there particularly interesting interviews that have come up that you look back on and now, oh boy, you know, the time we had.
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So, sometimes, you know, for me, we re not as prolific as you are.
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We ve been doing The Buyer s Mind now for a year and a half, which I think,
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It certainly outlasts a lot of podcasts, but I look back and I go, boy, there are certainly guests that are gonna pop up.
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We had Seth Godin on this show, it was phenomenal.
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But then there are people that just totally surprise you and you go, wow, I didn t know who you were, but that was amazing.
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When you look back on your podcast, are there some interviews that you hung up the phone and went, my mind was blown right then?
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Hmm.
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I ve got two that came to my mind, but for different reasons than what you just said.
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Who are your two?
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Because I ve got two as well.
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Well, one was the rabbi.
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Oh, Rabbi Daniel Lappin.
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Rabbi Daniel Lappin, yep, from up in Seattle, I think, or off the coast up there.
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He lives on an island, doesn t he?
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Something like that.
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And then the other one for me was Grant Cardone.
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I have Grant Cardone.
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Grant Cardone on, because he can be a polarizing guy in the sales world.
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A lot of people think, oh, gosh.
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But you know what?
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He was so giving, he would have taught
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to us for another two hours if we d have let him.
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His energy just came through, and I said, you know, and a lot of people like, we had one guy that said, hey, I can t believe you guys had Greg Cardone.
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How dare you, all this stuff.
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Well, I actually called that listener.
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He had put his phone number in there, and I called him.
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He was shocked that I called him.
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We had one- Did you yell at him?
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I didn t yell at him.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I said, come on!
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Oh, man.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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A 10-acre system.
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Put your Grant Cardone face on.
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I did not do that.
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My memory is of Jack Canfield.
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You know who Jack Canfield is, Jeff?
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Oh, Jack.
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Very, absolutely.
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He was awesome.
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He just, and he s probably, what, 75?
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I mean, he s.
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He s just a great guy.
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And I remember to this day, we started the podcast, and he said, hey, before we go live, I just want to tell you guys that I appreciate you so much having me on.
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You guys do really good work.
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And I just want to tell you that people are paying attention.
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So thanks for having me on.
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I thought, nobody ever says that today.
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I mean, that s the gentleman of years gone by and a past that he was so appreciative.
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Now, was it a move?
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I don t know if he probably never listened to us, but it was so genuine that that s kind of a lost art.
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Especially a guy that has sold 6 billion books in his life.
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It s not a bad deal.
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And I would also tell you, this is good, because I think this is one of the reasons that this made the Advanced Selling Podcast what it is.
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And I m sure as you re growing your market to the same deal, is that the interviews we ve done with our listeners
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to me stand out the most because it gives a voice to the listener where all of a sudden it s like, wow, you guys are actually connecting with your listeners.
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And we ve had multiple listeners on the show.
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Every time we do that, I feel so good about what we re doing and what people are doing and the fact that we all need each other.
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This is a community where we all need to support each other.
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Those are my favorite for sure.
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You know, I just had on the podcast here a couple of weeks ago, her name is Molly Jacobs.
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You ve never heard of her.
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She s out of Reno.
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She s a frontline salesperson.
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She s an actively selling, but her product is cardboard boxes.
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She sells boxes to companies that ship stuff.
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And I had to bring her on because she s nailed.
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She s great at what she does.
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But I had to bring her on just to ask the question, is there anything more commoditized than a cardboard box?
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That s it.
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And to hear the way that she stands out herself was really, really rich.
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But now you have to go back and connect the dots on something.
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Hey, we re going to do this podcast.
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We re going to do this advanced selling podcast.
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We re really going to get into the nitty and gritty about selling and how to make people more effective.
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And so, of course, we need to bring on a rabbi from Seattle.
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Would you please connect the dots here for me, please?
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I believe his discussion is about money.
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and earning money, right, and commerce.
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And he talks, he puts a little bit of his faith in there.
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And he talks about how in his faith and the Jewish faith, how they re taught to attract and keep and collect money for what they do.
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And they have a really, really unique viewpoint on that subject.
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And so because making money is in the mix of the sales game, we thought it d be interesting for our listeners to have Rabbi Lappin come on and just talk about the philosophy that he and some of the people that share his faith have about
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earning money.
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And talk he does.
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He did talk.
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That was the other thing.
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He s a one question interviewer.
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You ask him one question and 20 minutes later.
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Right.
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You just take a nap.
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Go get your coffee.
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But his topic was really good because we think of money as income.
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He thinks of it as tied to value.
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And he says the reason that the Jewish population is so good at it is that we re taught, or they re taught early, that this is all about how much value can you deliver to your customers.
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And the more value you deliver, the more money you will make.
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But don t look at it that way.
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Look at it, what can I give?
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And he wrote a whole book.
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I can t remember the name of it, but he was really good.
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And I like it when people come on and they can reframe things.
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Maybe your salesperson for the box company did that too.
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Let s reframe how we think about things.
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And when you do that, then new vistas kind of open up to you.
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Sure, sure.
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You mentioned having Grant Cardone on the show, and I agree, he can be very polarizing.
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I don t think that would be a newsflash to Grant Cardone.
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But there are some people that are going to look at it and say that there are two schools of thought.
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There s sort of an old school, new school thing going on there.
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And do you subscribe to that idea that there is this old close at all costs, and we re going to pound them until we beat our customers in this submission?
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And then there are others over here who are like, no, no, no, no.
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Let s come alongside and, you know, we re going to make a friend.
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And both are going to take pot shots at the other, right?
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Where do you guys fall on that continuum?
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You just answered it with your last word is continuum.
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I don t see it as a binary answer.
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You re not in old school or new school.
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It s a sliding continuum.
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I m also not a fan that there s one way to do something.
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I think the pros that I ve been around in sales and in my football life are constantly looking for a slight edge at the margin for super high performance.
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And so whether that means my behavior goes up like old school, like I m going to ramp my behavior up and do more push-ups.
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I m going to make more calls, and that s one thing.
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Or if I want to really dial in on my messaging and make it exquisite and really craft it, that s another more of the new school thing.
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And I think they all go together.
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Personally, I m trying to find the best of all of those and put them together for maximum performance in the middle.
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Yeah, I think what Grant talks about a lot, at least on the podcast, was that interaction with a customer.
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And that s what you re talking about, Jeff, is how do I interact with a customer either aggressively or subtly or passively?
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And I feel like today, if you re going to take your income from, let s just say, $100,000 to $300,000 a year, you re going to triple your output.
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I don t think it s a game.
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I don t think all the game is played you in front of the customer.
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I think the game is played through you getting right mentally, through you getting fit, through, as Brian said, you crafting your message, you testing your message out, you practice speaking, you practice video, you do podcasting, you get interviews, you write.
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All those things together, and the sum of those things are what takes your income and triples it.
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I don t think it s all customer interaction, yet that s where we typically go when someone asks a question.
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They usually go to, OK, I ve got this customer, and they said this, and I said that, and they said this, and I said that.
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What should I say next?
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And I feel like I think there s a bigger game at play here than just customer interaction.
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Don t you?
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I mean, you talk about the mindset, and as do we.
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Well, you know, what s really interesting is that just as I asked that question and then you both jumped in on it, and I ought to point out that for both of you, your voice tone changed a little bit.
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You both got really serious about this, and I m not suggesting that it was out of character by any stretch or that you became a different person.
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but clearly you take this stuff really seriously and you ve got this sort of this fun loving, hey we don t have to take ourselves too seriously, but you clearly take this very very seriously.
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That was actually kind of inspiring to me and I do feel like when I m getting into this, when I m peeling back the layers and trying to figure out what goes on in a customer s mind when they re making a decision,
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I get really, really wonked out about that in a wonderful way.
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It s almost as if you re stepping into this zone where it s like, feed me, feed me, feed me.
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I want to know more and more and more.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s really good.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s a good catch.
1
SPEAKER_00
Very observant here.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you tricked us there.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, no, that was great.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now I m sweating now.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m like so fired up.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m not going to say I m done.
1
SPEAKER_00
Go ahead.
1
SPEAKER_00
You guys can throw stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s really, really good.
1
SPEAKER_00
Very accurate, too, because we do.
1
SPEAKER_00
It is.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think if you re going to put yourself out in our world, you have to take a stand for something, even if it s stand for the middle or whatever that is.
1
SPEAKER_00
You ve got to have some answers and still be open to new ideas at the same time.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think living in that sphere is really important.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think I listened to a guy s podcast named Michael Gervais, Finding Mastery.
1
SPEAKER_01
And he was talking.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s a performance coach.
1
SPEAKER_01
And of course, everybody s a performance coach today, but I actually think he really is a performance coach because he studies at doctor, PhD and all that.
1
SPEAKER_01
But he talks, he talked the other day about, are you playing a part or are you, are you the parts?
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think a lot of times sales people, we re playing the parts and we re not really in it.
1
SPEAKER_01
We re just,
1
SPEAKER_01
We ve kind of memorized our lines.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we have all the good responses.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we have memorized some technique and mechanics.
1
SPEAKER_01
But we re not really into it.
1
SPEAKER_01
We re not the part of the problem finder and the problem solver and the representative.
1
SPEAKER_01
So that s a weird thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know how to explain it other than I think great actors aren t playing a part.
1
SPEAKER_01
They are the part.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think we can all learn from that.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, but I think with great actors is that they ve studied their craft so well that they know how to be the part.
1
SPEAKER_02
And there s a great scene from Midnight Cowboy with Dustin Hoffman and John Boyd walking across the street in New York City.
1
SPEAKER_02
And Dustin Hoffman almost gets hit by a cab.
1
SPEAKER_02
And now, you know, the famous line, it s ubiquitous.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m walking here, I m walking.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, the fact is, most people don t know, Dustin Hoffman almost got hit by a cab that was not in the script, that was not supposed to happen.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I didn t know that.
1
SPEAKER_02
And he did not step out of character for a second.
1
SPEAKER_02
He was that guy.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I think that s the idea.
1
SPEAKER_02
If we re trying to be somebody that we re not, then what happens when you get a curveball?
2
SPEAKER_02
There s no way that you know how to be able to.
2
SPEAKER_02
See the difference between you and us, Jeff, is that you talk about classic movies like Dustin Hoffman.
2
SPEAKER_02
And we talk about movies like The Jerk with Steve Martin.
2
SPEAKER_02
We just had a whole thing today where we talked about The Jerk because Navin R. Johnson.
2
SPEAKER_00
I would also guess all three of us have run into this in the classroom in front of an audience.
2
SPEAKER_00
When you say a line from an 80s movie, the audience is all 27 and they stare at you like you got four heads.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like I was born in 89, man.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m like, oh, sorry, dude.
2
SPEAKER_02
We do some music trivia sometimes on the podcast, and Brian is always telling me, you know, Bill, you can t go back to the 70s all the time.
2
SPEAKER_02
You got to come back to the current millennium.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
We talked about Grant Cardone.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s talk about another guy who can be, at least to some people, polarizing in the sales world.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s talk about Gettemer.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if you ve ever had him on the podcast.
2
SPEAKER_01
I have.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve met him a few times through events at the National Speakers Association.
2
SPEAKER_01
What s your take on Giddemer?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I don t know him super well, Stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love, I believe he is who he is.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s why I like him so much.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I just actually, it s funny you bring him up, because I quoted him this morning in our meeting.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you watch when he promotes things on LinkedIn, he ll say, you know, this is coming to town near you, and da, da, da, tell both your friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
He just has that fun kind of edge.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m a big fan of how he is.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know about his tactical material.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think he s done a brilliant job marketing himself.
2
SPEAKER_00
He owns an entire end cap in Barnes & Noble, when there used to be Barnes & Nobles.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
He s done a really, really great job with that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think he s the real deal.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s still Barnes & Nobles out there.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, barely.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s Amazon s new bookseller.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know what I did for the first time last night?
2
SPEAKER_00
Sorry, Jeff.
2
SPEAKER_00
Excuse us.
2
SPEAKER_00
I bought a book on Amazon.
2
SPEAKER_00
When s the last time you bought a book on Amazon?
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, that s what they started with.
2
SPEAKER_00
And last night, my son needs a book for high school.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I thought, oh my God, I haven t bought a book on Amazon for like 10 years.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
Anyway.
2
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I don t know Jeff Gittemer.
2
SPEAKER_02
I respect him a lot, though, based on what he s done from a marketing standpoint, building a great business.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I ve heard him interviewed a couple times.
2
SPEAKER_02
He s OK.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t see him as polarizing, though, as Grant.
2
SPEAKER_02
No, I don t either.
2
SPEAKER_02
No, no.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I bet you definitely nailed the idea that he is who he is.
2
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t matter when you talk to him, in what setting, he is who he is.
2
SPEAKER_01
There is an authenticity.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think he would look at it and go, I am who I am.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you don t like it, that s fine.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m not going to lose any sleep over that.
2
SPEAKER_00
We had a good friend of ours, a friend of our show, who worked for a very well-known, I ll leave the names out, person who does a big business and actually had him at one of the events, had Jeff Gittemer at one of the events.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she said, yeah, he is who he is.
2
SPEAKER_00
And sometimes it doesn t play well.
2
SPEAKER_00
But for me, I like the guy that owns who he is.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is who he is.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
What non-sales experts do you two follow that you revere, that you would perhaps say you would love to have on the podcast or perhaps already have?
2
SPEAKER_01
But who are some of the non-sales experts out there that you think are worth listening to?
2
SPEAKER_01
I was going to say Jeff Shore, but you re a sales expert.
2
SPEAKER_00
So let s scratch that one.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s who I had on my list, too.
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m serious.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s going to sound a little cliche, but it just is.
2
SPEAKER_00
Gary V, Gary Vaynerchuk, I m just a huge fan of how he rolls his business.
2
SPEAKER_00
More than anything, I love the fact that he has a company, an actual company, a nine-figure revenue company that does business with big businesses.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s his deal while he s doing this kind of independent brand promoting thing, where I feel like a lot of internet marketing people just kind of, it s like closed loop.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, they teach you how to market to internet marketers, where Gary Vee s got a real freestanding company with growth plan.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I just love how he rules and love his approach to things.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I also think he is who he is.
2
SPEAKER_00
Same deal.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ll have to go back and listen to your Seth interview.
2
SPEAKER_02
I never heard, I didn t hear that, but I really like Seth Godin.
2
SPEAKER_02
I heard him interviewed.
2
SPEAKER_02
Tim Ferriss had him on the other day and he s got a brand new book out on marketing.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I ve always, I ve always felt like he looks at the world at a level slightly beneath everybody else or above, you know, he carves out a layer that s just a little bit below and beyond where we think.
2
SPEAKER_02
And that s really inspiring.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think everybody ought to read and listen to Seth.
2
SPEAKER_02
So that would be mine.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
What do you think people get wrong about selling today?
2
SPEAKER_01
When you look at, let s just face it, the continuum of presentation levels from horrific to stellar, what drives you a little nuts when you see this taking place in a sales presentation?
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I...
2
SPEAKER_00
With all of the available coaching, training, the modernization of sales, it drives me crazy when I see people still load their entire future behind a 58-slide PowerPoint slide deck.
2
SPEAKER_00
and do a demo for someone on a phone call that s a 60-minute meeting, and they talk for 58 minutes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I see that all the time, especially in tech companies and SaaS companies.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re so product and marketing driven that the product and marketing own the slide deck, and they just load it, load it with platitudes and data and things.
2
SPEAKER_00
And there s just no interaction.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I m just going, where?
2
SPEAKER_00
I just don t understand where that comes from, the lack of interaction sometimes, especially in a demo slash presentation format.
2
SPEAKER_02
Right.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
I would say for me, it s
2
SPEAKER_02
And Brian and I have both been in a lot of companies where the owner or the VP of sales will bring us into work and he ll say, you know, my people are pretty good.
2
SPEAKER_02
They re, you know, they re really good.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then we, then we hear them.
2
SPEAKER_02
And this is, I guess it is very, as I always say, this is not judgmental.
2
SPEAKER_02
Actually, it s very judgmental.
2
SPEAKER_02
No, they re really not.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it s not because they re not good people, but it s the little tiny things.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s, you know, something little like when someone asks a question to acknowledge the asking of the question, not by saying, Oh, that s a good question.
2
SPEAKER_02
Let me answer that.
2
SPEAKER_02
But you know, that s, that s really good.
2
SPEAKER_02
Tell me a little bit more about what you mean.
2
SPEAKER_02
Just, just that back and forth, which is so simple.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it s such a minor thing that people pass over these minor things.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so we look at, well, how many slides does your slide deck have?
2
SPEAKER_02
And what s the color scheme?
2
SPEAKER_02
And we say, those are major things.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think how we treat people, how we ask questions, how we answer questions, how we keep them psychologically OK in the process is really important.
2
SPEAKER_00
And very few people pay much attention to that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think the core problem, and Bill and I talk about on the podcast a lot, is the intention of the salesperson.
2
SPEAKER_00
And most, unfortunately, most salespeople carry an intention to get in all these scenarios, or an intention to hope to be chosen, that sort of thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so their energy is created from that point of view, and then all their words and actions follow suit.
2
SPEAKER_00
And everyone can tell when you re there to try to get something.
2
SPEAKER_00
But when you flip the intention around, and your intention is there to serve, and to learn, and be curious, and to collaborate, and things like that, it changes everything that comes out of your mouth and every action that you engage in.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that, to me, is the problem, is having proper intention.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s one of the things we talk about on the buyer s mind all the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
The idea that if you know your customer well enough, that sale begins to roll out right in front of you.
2
SPEAKER_01
And too many salespeople want to roll out the sale first.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Show you how easy it is for you to buy my amazing product.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they have no idea who they re talking to.
2
SPEAKER_01
It just drives me nuts.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s a great way to say it.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re just about out of time.
2
SPEAKER_01
But before we go here, we re gonna put you both on the hot seat.
2
SPEAKER_01
So rapid fire questions, rapid fire answers, and listeners just, you know, Bill s gonna answer first and then Brian s gonna answer each of these questions.
2
SPEAKER_00
Here we go.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right, Bill, you re leading off here.
2
SPEAKER_01
Your very first job was what?
2
SPEAKER_00
Paperboy, 12 years old.
2
SPEAKER_00
Forklift driver, 17.
2
SPEAKER_00
Love it.
2
SPEAKER_01
When you were 10, you thought you would be what?
2
SPEAKER_02
FBI agent, because I love the show, the FBI.
2
SPEAKER_02
Fighter pilot.
2
SPEAKER_01
There you go.
2
SPEAKER_02
Fighter pilot.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
The most beautiful place you ve ever stood.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, man.
2
SPEAKER_02
Beautiful place I ever stood.
2
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_02
I got it.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think it s the Grand Canyon, the lip of the Grand Canyon.
2
SPEAKER_00
Mine s Zion National Park, 6 a.m.
2
SPEAKER_00
in the morning.
2
SPEAKER_01
There you go, okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Any book that you read that made a profound impact on your life?
2
SPEAKER_01
Any book, Bill?
2
SPEAKER_01
Other than mine?
2
SPEAKER_00
You had to say that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or mine, or mine.
2
SPEAKER_02
Or yours, did I say mine?
2
SPEAKER_02
I meant yours.
2
SPEAKER_02
A profound effect, man, that s really good.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think it s James Allen, As a Man Thinketh.
2
SPEAKER_02
You ve probably never read that, Brian.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, you ve read it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ve skimmed it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m gonna go with I m gonna go with Scary Close Scary Close Scary Close.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s about relationships?
2
SPEAKER_00
It is.
2
SPEAKER_02
Donald Miller.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Scary Close.
2
SPEAKER_02
So how many people who answer that question choose the Bible?
2
SPEAKER_01
No, I rarely hear it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I usually hear think and grow rich or see you at the top or something like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Right.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because I need to answer the Bible.
2
SPEAKER_02
That would be the politically correct thing to do.
2
SPEAKER_02
But sure.
2
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, a movie you ve seen multiple times.
3
SPEAKER_01
but you can t help it, you have to watch it again when it comes on.
3
SPEAKER_01
Bill?
3
SPEAKER_00
The jerk.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I ve seen that not recently, but I ve seen it a dozen times, probably.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m going to get murdered for my answer.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s Can t Buy Me Love.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s an 80s chick flick.
3
SPEAKER_02
Ronald Miller.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s the Ronald Miller story.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s brilliant.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have one more question, but I don t know how we can top that.
3
SPEAKER_01
All right, here is the last question.
3
SPEAKER_01
The name of your first celebrity crush.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, I suppose it was Roger Brown, who played basketball for the Indiana Pacers.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I just loved him.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I know that you re maybe thinking a female crush.
3
SPEAKER_00
But everything I did, I did like Roger Brown.
3
SPEAKER_00
He was an awesome player.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so that s my initial celebrity.
3
SPEAKER_00
Just I wanted to be like him.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
3
SPEAKER_00
Good answer.
3
SPEAKER_02
Mine s easy.
3
SPEAKER_02
Tatum O Neal and Bad News Bears.
3
SPEAKER_02
Couldn t get enough of that.
3
SPEAKER_02
Fantastic.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s good.
3
SPEAKER_01
That is awesome.
3
SPEAKER_01
That is awesome.
3
SPEAKER_01
All right.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re off the hot seat.
3
SPEAKER_01
Brian and Bill, just fantastic.
3
SPEAKER_01
Thanks so much for giving your very, very valuable time.
3
SPEAKER_01
That was really, really a lot of fun.
3
SPEAKER_01
But thanks even more so for what you re doing and have been doing for a long time.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know there are so many thousands of sales professionals around the world who they give and they give and they give.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s what they do for a living.
3
SPEAKER_01
but you can only give that what you have inside.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think that s what you guys do.
3
SPEAKER_01
You fuel people, you give people that energy that they need in order to do something very, very valuable for the rest of society.
3
SPEAKER_01
So thanks for all you do.
3
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for being on the show.
3
SPEAKER_01
Really appreciate it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, Jeff.
3
SPEAKER_00
That was awesome.
3
SPEAKER_00
Appreciate you too.
3
SPEAKER_00
Likewise.