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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill continues his series on phrases he s fed up with, we get a laugh out of what people usually don t say at funerals, and we riff on the topic how to get out of a rut.
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Welcome, everybody, to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest-running sales training podcast in sales training podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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That s my partner over there.
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We re here every week.
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We re glad that you are here with us.
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If you re a new listener, welcome to the fray.
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A lot of new listeners.
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Is that wrong?
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You re laughing at me?
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No, I m laughing at something else.
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OK, guys.
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Welcome to the fray.
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If you would like, if you have sales, everybody has sales meetings.
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And usually in the fall, and they have launch meetings in like January, February.
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And we have come to discover that one of our best gifts we can give to our listeners is to come visit you at your sales meeting and do a little speech and a little keynote training session for you.
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So if you would like that to happen, all you have to do is send us an email, listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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In the subject line, put come see us.
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And we will start to process and talk about how the logistics work and the fees and all that jazz.
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But we ve been on the road.
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And that is one of our favorite things to do.
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And we know our listeners would tell you one of the best things they ever did, the best money they spent, was having us come out and visit you at one of those deals.
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Can I tell you about a gig that I did here a couple of weeks ago?
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Yeah, sure.
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Went down to southern Indiana, worked with the people at Best Home Furnishings.
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And they asked me to put together a program called How to Build an Awesome Personal Brand.
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Ooh.
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And they have distributors, and their whole focus is on personal branding with their salespeople, their regional managers, their distributors.
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They see that as such a big part to differentiate in the market.
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And so we built this program.
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It was really good.
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I took parts of the personal brand makeover that we did.
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And so if you have a specific topic, the reason I m getting to what I m getting to here is, if you have a specific topic, don t be afraid to call Brian and I and say, look, here s our problem.
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We re not able to command a higher price, or we need to build a better brand, or we need to really improve our sales cycle or lead you.
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You get very specific, and we can get very specific with a solution.
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Yeah, it s very, very usable stuff.
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We don t come in and just talk about theory stuff.
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We roll up sleeves.
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We get into deals.
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We get into specific problems.
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Everything is hyper-customized that way, not just like we re going to put your logo on the proposal.
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I truly think that s how some people customize things.
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It s fully customizable.
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They put their logo, which I m OK if you do that, but that s not on a program.
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I think like like a handout.
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Yeah, I think that s one thing, but a proposal.
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It always feels like what are you trying to do?
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Yeah, put the proposal on.
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Yeah, you use the wrong font type.
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I have three things, three phrases.
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I know that some of our best audience participation episodes are when we say what we re fed up with.
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Okay, here s one.
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I don t like it when people say these three things.
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So this will offend a third of our audience on each one.
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Number one, I hate it when people say, well, let s unpack that.
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Have you heard that before?
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All the time.
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It s hilarious.
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It s very corporate, very taxing.
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It is.
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We re going to unpack that.
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Well, let me unpack that.
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Let me unpack you.
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Here we go.
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I ll tell you what, I got you.
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Your truth.
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Your truth, oh.
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Why don t you like that one?
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How would you use that, though?
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What would you say?
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Whatever your truth, what would you say?
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Find your truth.
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I m trying to live my truth right now.
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Oh, I got you.
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You have to decide what is your truth?
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Is there another way?
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I m not saying that s a bad thing, but is there another way to say it?
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And then show up.
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That s how you show up.
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Now I have used that one.
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I have used that one.
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But usually what I don t like is when we say, you know what, I m just not showing up properly these days.
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I want to know how are you showing up in a car, in an Uber?
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That s what I m talking about.
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How do you show up?
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Not how do you feel about yourself when you show up?
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I got you.
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Like physically, how do you do your hair and stuff like that?
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How do you get there?
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Oh, the process.
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How d you get here today?
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I drove.
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Oh, really?
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You know what else I think is funny?
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I ll tell you one more thing.
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This is the thing you were laughing at earlier.
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Yeah, it is.
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I was out to dinner the other night with some people that I didn t know.
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My wife was out of town, and I went with my in-laws.
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And there was a couple people there that I kind of knew who they were.
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And have you ever been around people who they can t let a story go?
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Like the guy says to me, yeah, I remember when you used to ride bikes.
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You and Jane used to ride bikes.
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And I said, oh, that was a long time ago.
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I haven t ridden in a while.
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Yeah, I used to ride bikes.
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I remember I used to ride bikes around Fort Harrison.
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And we went out one time.
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And I said, yeah, I ve got knee.
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I just don t ride bikes.
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Yeah, I remember, man.
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You used to ride bikes like a banshee.
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You were a bike rider.
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Okay, I rode bikes.
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I don t do it anymore.
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Bike, you, rider.
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Rider, bike, you, pedal.
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Pedal, Bill.
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Bill s a biker.
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And he didn t stop with that.
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Now, I do have a pet peeve with that.
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When people put you on the spot for a story in front of a big group, so they ll go, hey, Bill, tell that Ed story with the fence.
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Tell him that one.
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Remember you were in jail that time?
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Tell him that.
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Tell him that one.
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Like, no, no, no, tell him you got to hear it.
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It s funny.
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It s hilarious.
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Tell him that.
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Yeah.
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I m like, I m not going to say this story and then you can t because people that actually do have a little bit of comedic timing know when to tell the story.
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They don t need to be prompted by some guy who doesn t have comedic timing.
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No, it s like they have to explain the joke.
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It s really bad.
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Hey, quick thing, because we had a happening over the weekend in the Neal family for a first time ever.
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Good little perseverance story.
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My youngest son, Nicky, he s 12 years old.
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He s in sixth grade.
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Baseball is his deal.
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It is his deal.
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He loves it, plays it, pretty good little player.
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All-star teams came out.
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He didn t make the all-star team.
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He s kind of right there at the cusp, and he just didn t.
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And he was devastated, absolutely devastated.
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So we told him, and he was sad, and he was really upset.
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We said, hey, just go out and play your best game through the little league kind of tournament that you re in now, and that s it.
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And so he got it up, and last week had one of his best games out in the field and pitching and stuff like that.
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And then on Saturday, hit his first home run out of the park.
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And no Neal kid has ever hit a home run ever in the history of the last name.
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Including you?
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Including me.
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I was awful at baseball.
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I was just really, it was a great lesson for any kid, or any adult, to persevere through bad things that happen.
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He didn t go in the tank.
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He was real happy for his friends then.
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He changed his attitude.
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Did he flip the bird as he was running the bases?
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Well, of course.
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I told his mom.
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That was kind of a nice little middle finger to the committee, to the selection committee.
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See, that s what I like about it.
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That s what I love about it.
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Exactly.
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It really was.
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Forget the home run.
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So congrats to Nicky and Ian.
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We got the ball and everything.
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And I m not a real jump up kind of guy for stuff like that.
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But for that.
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I jumped out of my chair.
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I spilled my Coke.
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I took off sprinting into the parking lot to go get the ball.
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It was awesome.
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That s my story from the weekend.
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That s good.
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That s good for him.
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Really good for him.
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Really good.
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And yes, the commissioner of the league was searching for the ball with me, which was kind of fun.
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Oh, who hit this?
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Exactly.
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Oh, did my son hit this again?
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Did he All-Star?
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Oh, we don t need home runs at All-Stars.
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It s OK.
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Parents are the worst, aren t we?
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Hey, gang, before we get into our topic, question again, are you skipping lunch every day so you have time to complete all those tasky things, calls, emails, texts, other sales touches that you have to do to build your sales pipeline?
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Gosh, I hope not.
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You can check them out at outreach.io slash ASP.
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Go to outreach.io slash ASP.
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That s outreach.io slash ASP.
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OK, we need to talk today about how to get out of a slump or a rut.
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Quick topic, we brought it up like, you know what?
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That s just good.
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We all get in them.
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Everyone does.
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It s part of life.
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It s part of the human experience.
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Salespeople absolutely get in them.
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I ve had multiple clients in slumps here in the first six months of the year.
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And I think it s a really good topic to debate a little bit and talk a little bit about how do I get myself out of a slump or out of a sales rut.
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All right, so I ve got a couple of, I ve got a model that I was taught that was really helpful to me and a couple little.
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Is a rut different than a slump?
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It seems different to me.
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Yeah, it does, doesn t it?
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Like a slump seems like I m zero for five, and God, I m just wondering, am I doing things right?
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I start to question myself.
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Or a rut is just, I ve been doing the same thing for the last 12 years, and it works sometimes, and it doesn t sometimes.
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Am I really looking at the world in the right way?
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Yeah, rut feels more stuck, doesn t it?
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A rut feels stuck.
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Slump feels clinically depressed.
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I like rut better just because I think we can all end up there.
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And maybe this podcast episode helps you to ask yourself the question, am I in one?
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Because you may not know you re in one.
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That s good.
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That s really good.
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OK, let s talk about that.
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You want to go first?
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Do you want to go?
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No, you go ahead.
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You ve got some.
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So here s the model I learned.
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Well, it s a model I can t remember.
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I want to give credit to it.
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I learned it in my peer group, and I can t remember where it came from.
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But if you take this little, and it s, I don t know if I can draw this.
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I ll draw it in the air for you, Bill, so you can explain.
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It s kind of like a parabola.
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So it starts, it s almost like a
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bell curve looking thing.
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You sure the syllables are?
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Syllables are?
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On the y-axis, you have, I m sorry, on the y-axis, you have, oh my gosh, I m getting this wrong.
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On the x-axis, you have stress.
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X-axis, stress.
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Yes.
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Up axis performance.
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So then up high is high performance.
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Down low is low performance.
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And then stress is on the left side, low stress.
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And then if you draw a parabola right there, Bill s drawing this.
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Maybe we can take a picture and put this up.
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Like this?
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No, a parabola.
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Here, I ll draw it for you.
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You re giving me all these words I ve never heard of before.
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You ve never heard of parabola?
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Well, I don t know what it is.
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It s not a four box.
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It s like this.
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That s a parabola.
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right?
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It s like a bell curve.
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It s a bell curve.
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It s a bell curve.
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You re the big words.
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Could you draw a rhomboid right over that please?
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Hyperspheroid, a football is actually a protate spheroid.
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Look that up.
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Yeah, I got to look up what it is, but it s something like that, something.
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So when I m down in this low stress, low performance areas down here, when I m up here, I m in medium stress, high performance.
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And over here, I m in high stress, low performance.
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These sections over here, when I m in high stress, low performance, I m in burnout phase.
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OK, when I am in low performance, low stress, I am in rust or rut phase, which is what prompted this.
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And when I m at this medium stress, high performance, I m in flow.
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And you ve heard about people getting in the zone.
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That s what this is.
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So down here, I m rusting and rotting.
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Over here, I m burning out.
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And here, I m floating.
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This actually keeps going out.
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So these periods are usually followed by each other.
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So a burnout phase will often be followed by a rust or a rut phase.
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So we ve all been there, right?
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So we re super busy, da-da-da-da.
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All of a sudden, we re too busy.
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We re overwhelmed.
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We ve committed too much.
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Things start to fall off.
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And then things fall off.
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And now we can t even make one phone call.
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It s like can t even get out of bed.
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And then you pick it back up.
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So this to me is a great model that I got from my peer group, and I think it s from some psychology PhD guy, that helps you know where you are.
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If you re in burnout phase, flow phase, or rust or rut phase, like we re talking here, one, the awareness to know where I am.
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Also, the predictor to know that I m probably headed to one.
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when I come out of flow.
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I am in, right now, burnout phase.
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I can feel myself.
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I know I ve got overcommitments.
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That s a signal for me.
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I ve got too much going on.
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And I can just feel my energy.
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And that burnout phase can lead to rust or rot, where I m just stuck.
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I m like, OK, I don t even want to do anything, that sort of thing.
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So the first step is, with that model, is noticing where I am.
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Just noticing.
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That s what I was wondering.
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I m just noticing where I m at.
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OK.
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What s the trigger?
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What s the trigger?
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Is it I need more sleep?
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I m tired?
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I m burnout?
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I don t have any idea?
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What would you say is the trigger for this?
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Yeah, that s a good question.
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I think for the heading from flow into burnout, for me, is over-commitment, missed deadlines, not getting back to people,
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canceling, changing a bunch of meetings, things like that.
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Kind of looking at my to-do list when I m like, just can t even think straight.
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Like there s just too much going on.
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And then things will start to fall off.
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People will say, look, man, we got to cancel the contract or whatever, or we re not going to go ahead and do the program now, or whatever.
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Stuff starts to fall away.
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Then I ll flow over into a rust or rot phase, where I m just kind of stuck.
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And I m like, ugh.
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So you re saying that you can actually hop back and forth.
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You don t always have to go through flow.
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This kind of circles back right here.
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It actually circles.
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It s circular.
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Yes, it is circular.
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Well, you didn t tell me that when I drew the damn thing.
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So now I m going to have to re- I don t know how I can improve that.
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How can we improve that?
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I ll put this on our Facebook page or LinkedIn.
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Yeah, we ll do LinkedIn and put it up on the podcast.
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Travis, maybe you can take a stab at this.
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Maybe we just stab it so that we can read it, because I can t read mine.
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I like this.
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I like this.
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I m just thinking.
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I m always intrigued with these models because I think the missing thing always is, OK, well, how do I know where I am?
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So that s a great framework there.
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Do we all know when we re in flow?
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I mean, you might think, well, that s easy.
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But I don t know.
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I don t know that people do.
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And then what I think, so what I m guilty of is when I get in a flow, I pile on.
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You take on more stuff.
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Absolutely.
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Yes.
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Yep, that s when things turn to gold.
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You want more?
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Absolutely.
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You want more stuff?
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Absolutely.
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Like, wow, I m just on it.
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SPEAKER_00
So I m gonna go prospect more and get more deals.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I got all these things going on.
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Next thing you know, you like got too much.
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I m like, Oh, my gosh.
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SPEAKER_01
So here.
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So I don t know what the solution for this is.
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But um,
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This is one thing that I have found helpful for me.
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And I know some other people who do this.
1
SPEAKER_01
And this kind of comes from some of the yogic traditions of health and wellness.
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And that is, get away.
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Get away with a piece of paper and a pencil or pen.
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SPEAKER_01
Just get away and write it all down.
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SPEAKER_01
And get it all out of here.
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SPEAKER_01
Because this stuff starts to stack up inside.
1
SPEAKER_01
My daughter out in Denver just got bad news last week.
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She got laid off from a company because she stole a bunch of money from the company.
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SPEAKER_01
No, I m just kidding.
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SPEAKER_01
You weren t even listening.
1
SPEAKER_01
The company got bought, and so some positions were redone.
1
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, the point is, she s got some nice severance, so she s got a couple months to sort through things.
1
SPEAKER_01
And one of my suggestions is, just go off for a couple days.
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She lives in Colorado.
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There s plenty of places to go there to be alone.
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Just write.
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And just try and say, what do I want to do with my life?
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She s 25, she s got plenty of time.
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What do I want to do in business?
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What is my brand?
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What do I believe about myself?
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What is my ideal situation?
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And I don t think you can do that just in a 15 minute.
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It s a process.
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Because it takes some time.
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So that s one thing that I would suggest is some kind of getaway and just mind map, brainstorm, dig deep inside of yourself and say, what am I really doing here?
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You know what?
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When I get into flow, I start to take on more stuff.
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How am I going to notice that so that I don t continue that pattern?
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Yes.
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That s really, really good.
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I m going to do that.
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Because I don t do that.
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I was laying in bed this morning.
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Well, you re too busy to do that.
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You have to think that s where I ve gotten to right now.
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SPEAKER_00
So now I m in this thing where I m like, oh my gosh, I m in burnout phase.
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I m like, oh my gosh, how am I going to get all this stuff done?
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SPEAKER_00
I don t even have it all written down.
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Just getting it all written and seen in one place.
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Like, OK, now there it all is.
1
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So there s nothing left inside, because it s the inside part that kills you, right?
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It s never the thing.
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It s how we re thinking about the thing.
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
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Yes.
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Absolutely.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so that s one thought, but I like that model there.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, notice where you are.
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And I love the idea of writing or journaling or mind mapping.
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SPEAKER_00
the places there to help you find the triggers.
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So a lesson for me, just in our conversation right now, I m like, OK, that s a really good, because I know I do the pattern.
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When I get to flow, I pile on.
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So I ve got to find a mechanism that stops the piling on at the point of flow.
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That s what I got to do to limit this.
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What s the trigger?
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Yes.
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And I think this is not about making this process go away.
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I think it s about flattening it out a little bit and maybe not making it so steep or so long.
1
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People get in ruts for long periods of time.
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You know really deep.
1
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Yeah, I also think that one other thing I was gonna add to this which has less to do with this probably but it relevant and that is the idea of well, how do I want
1
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I do this meditation now where you re actually asked to see your ideal self and your ideal world in five years.
1
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And what does that look like and what does it feel like?
1
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And the more you can bring in vivid imagery about that, what happens is all the stuff that we re susceptible to piling on with,
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not what I see, so why would I want another client that does X amount of dollars?
1
SPEAKER_01
That s not my future.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s not what I see.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so is there a way we can brighten that light in the ideal future so that all this other stuff isn t tempting?
1
SPEAKER_01
Because you re tempted, like I am.
1
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
1
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We can say, you know what, I want 80% of my business next year to be X, and I want 20%.
1
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But if somebody shows up and they ve got an awesome opportunity, they got a little cash, a little jingle, a little shekel, some shekels, I say, well, you know what, I can put it.
1
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I m guilty as charged to that.
1
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I do that all the time.
1
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And that s why I started this practice here a little bit is because I want to get really clear about what the future looks like so I m not tempted.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s really great.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s really great.
1
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I also just wrote down, it s more of a mantra.
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I said it on a couple podcasts ago.
1
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I ve been through this process dozens of times in my grown-up life.
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Everything always works out.
1
SPEAKER_00
It does.
1
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No matter how bad it gets, how long the rut is, no matter what it is, it all works out.
1
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I m doing some writing about this.
1
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Nothing matters.
1
SPEAKER_00
Nothing matters.
1
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You know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_00
Your stuff, your job.
1
SPEAKER_00
I went fishing with my son.
1
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I m watching these guys who, all they do, they re fishing charter people.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s all they do.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s a lifestyle business.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s kind of a hard business.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s a lifestyle business.
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It s what they do.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they re happy.
1
SPEAKER_00
They seem to be really happy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they re probably sad, too, and everything else.
2
SPEAKER_00
Loads of booze, lots of cigarettes, a lot of sin.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you know, it just like nothing.
2
SPEAKER_00
We get all wrapped up in all these things that really don t matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you know, when Prince died, I cry.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m like, oh my God, Prince died.
2
SPEAKER_00
And like the world keeps going.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just fine without him.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
It just keeps rolling.
2
SPEAKER_01
Same will happen with us.
2
SPEAKER_01
For sure.
2
SPEAKER_01
The podcast may be interrupted temporarily.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, you know, the podcast world will certainly feel a dent.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I heard this yogi the other day say, the cosmos, when you look up at night and you see the stars and you see the planets, you don t know where it goes.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just endless.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you really don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
And in the cosmos, our universe is just a tiny speck.
2
SPEAKER_01
In the universe, our planet s a tiny speck.
2
SPEAKER_01
And on the planet, our city s a tiny speck.
2
SPEAKER_01
And inside our business, we are the tiniest of all specks.
2
SPEAKER_01
And yet, for us, everything is frickin  earth shattering.
2
SPEAKER_01
It is.
2
SPEAKER_01
Everything s, you know, oh my God, what happened?
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
And in the cosmos,
2
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It doesn t even register.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just nothing.
2
SPEAKER_00
It really isn t.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then you think of all the stuff that already happened a long time ago.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, there are a few life tragedies things that do impact.
2
SPEAKER_00
But even those, like life goes on.
2
SPEAKER_00
It just does.
2
SPEAKER_00
It just carries on, even when you think it can t.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s really beautiful.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s really.
2
SPEAKER_00
Once you get there, it s so refreshing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Then you re truly detached.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not that you don t care.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, never.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not that you don t want to put your best face on it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you leave gifts with people.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I gave a speech to a bunch of high school kids over Saturday night.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was talking about funerals.
2
SPEAKER_00
What do we do at every funeral?
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SPEAKER_00
So you re up in a box.
2
SPEAKER_00
No one really wants to look at you.
2
SPEAKER_00
But there s pictures of you all over the funeral home.
2
SPEAKER_00
And for the most part, all anybody does is talk about good stuff about you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Most people at a funeral are talking about things.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bill, you the biker.
2
SPEAKER_00
Boy, you re a biker, Bill.
2
SPEAKER_00
Remember Bill the biker?
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they talk about how much you impacted their life or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s funny.
2
SPEAKER_00
They tell stories.
2
SPEAKER_00
For them, that s what they do.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so the point is, you leave a positive impact no matter what you do.
2
SPEAKER_00
So all this stuff and negative stuff you re worried about, no one s going to say, yeah, no, no, he passed away.
2
SPEAKER_00
He lost a couple of deals his last month on Earth here.
2
SPEAKER_00
He lost a couple of really big deals that he should have won.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m just saying.
2
SPEAKER_01
You walk into the funeral home, and there s all these positive.
2
SPEAKER_01
But in one corner, there s like a veil where that s your dark side of Brian is over there.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bad stuff, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
That d be funny.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, he really his last few months, he would he just wasn t putting in the effort.
2
SPEAKER_00
He wasn t putting in the effort.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m just telling you he only made like four cold calls.
2
SPEAKER_00
He was making his call volume was way down.
2
SPEAKER_00
No wonder he died.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s way off the mark.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, seriously, it s funny, isn t it?
2
SPEAKER_00
All right, so get the heck out of your rut.
2
SPEAKER_01
Get out of rut, get the perspective right, and get your clarity of vision right.
2
SPEAKER_01
And look at those triggering episodes when you get out of flow, and I think you ll be fine.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you guys are great.
2
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We really appreciate all the listeners we have, and the emails, and the voice memos we get.
2
SPEAKER_01
We backed up a little bit on questions.
2
SPEAKER_01
So if you haven t heard your question answered and read and on the air, you re going to hear that in the next couple of weeks.
2
SPEAKER_01
Amen.
2
SPEAKER_01
Just wanted to tell you that.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right.
2
SPEAKER_01
See ya.
2
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Bye.