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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we get square on the definition of Parthenon, Bill comes up with a wonderful John Wooden quote, and we answer the question, is cold calling dead?
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in sales podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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I m Billy Caskey.
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Trying to focus in on that statement that we make.
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Hey, a couple of requests for you fine listeners out there.
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The first is we are mailbag, CoVideo mailbag is open.
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And so if you d like to send us an audio question, audio situation, record yourself saying, here s my problem, here s my struggle.
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Will you please take my, put my answer, take my,
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question on the air, give us the answer.
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The co-video mailbag is open.
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That s one thing.
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Second thing is Bill and I are now booking out for 2018.
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I will tell you, if you have a sales meeting, sales retreat, especially if it s somewhere warm in February, warm in February, we can be bribed.
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We can.
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So shoot us an email in the subject line for that one.
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You put, come see us.
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and send that to listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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Come see us, and we ll start the ball rolling on coming to visit you.
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I think we have a couple of calls here lined up in the next couple of weeks from people who want to bring us in for either later in the year or next year.
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So that topic is already starting to become hot, is how do we
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How do we train our people?
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I had a couple of shout outs.
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Oh, please.
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Yeah, please.
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One to Tara Kutzlee.
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Yeah.
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Tara is the, I think she might be the leader of the Verizon B2B team in Charleston, South Carolina.
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And they all listen to the advanced selling podcast down there.
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I like.
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Yeah.
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And I think she turns it on and lets it go.
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And that s the sales meeting.
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That s a smart woman.
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She leaves.
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She goes to Starbucks, comes back.
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I love it.
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And it s over.
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And the sales team is that much more empowered and trained up and coached up after she gets back.
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I love it.
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And her boss comes and says, hey, what s going on with this team?
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They re really doing well.
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And Tara says, well, you know, I m just teaching my people.
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I love it.
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So thanks, Tara, for that.
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Hi, Tara.
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And also, yeah, that s it.
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Oh, that s it.
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I ve got some other names here, but I need to edit those or go to the pronunciation grid.
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Yeah, that s right.
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You know, we have that in college and NFL football games when you get this press sheet that s for the announcers, and they have the pronunciations of all the names on there because they re more difficult to pronounce.
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It s interesting.
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Yeah.
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My name s never on there.
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Brian Neely.
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Yeah.
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One of my pet peeves, if I had a dime for every person that calls me Neely, the E is silent.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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Okay, today we re posing a question.
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This is a little bit more of a kind of an interview, a little, not a debate per se, but a topic.
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Is cold calling dead?
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is cold calling dead.
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This is something, if you pay attention on LinkedIn, if you re a sales professional, there s a lot of buzz these days about whether sales professionals should use cold calling as a strategy and or a technique to develop new leads in the top of the funnel.
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And so Bill and I are going to give our two cents on that topic today and let you listen.
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We are also going to post this topic up in the LinkedIn group, because we think this is one that s loaded.
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We d love to hear from you listeners about what you think about cold calling.
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Is it a strategy?
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Is it not?
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What should we do?
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How should we use it?
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all those sorts of things.
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So we re going to delve into this highly, highly charged topic.
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It s such a charged topic in the world of B2B sales.
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It s palpable.
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It is, yeah.
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So you want to take a stab at it?
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Well, I never thought about this too much until you brought it up.
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Oh, really?
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Yeah, I don t think about cold calling that much because A, I don t do it and never have done it.
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And B, most of my clients either have referrals or they have other lead generation systems.
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So when you brought it up today and said it s kind of a trending topic on
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LinkedIn, I was interested in that because I don t see it that much.
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I don t doubt that it is.
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I do think something you said in the pre-show is that the top of the funnel is where all the pain is.
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Yes.
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And so however you decide that you re going to fill the top of the funnel, cold calling, LinkedIn, connections, seminars, whatever, that s really the issue is how are we filling the top of the funnel with people who have real problems and who can be considered real prospects?
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And I think every listener
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onto this program would all raise their hands.
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100% of them say, I could use some more action in the top of the funnel, just some more leads coming down and filtering down.
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So this is a universal problem.
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The question is, how do you go about tackling the problem?
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It s cold calling.
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So a couple of definitions we need to set on the table first.
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The first is, we have lots of outside sales professionals that are in their cars driving around their territories.
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trying to drum up new business.
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And so there s one type of cold calling people think of the drop-in, right, where I go and visit a place where I have no appointment, I may or may not have a name, and I drop in and try to get the name or get an appointment to see somebody.
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That s one brand of cold calling.
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The other is actually on the telephone, where we have what s buzzy now in the world of technology, and I m going to say it, SaaS.
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In the SaaS world, we have the, I m going to say it again, SDR, sales development rep.
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You re going where I think you re going, my friend.
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Almost.
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And all these people exist.
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It s all they do is cold call on the telephone, right?
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And so there are a couple different brands of this cold calling.
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So we want to talk about that a little bit.
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Like, OK, is that what they should be doing?
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Is that the highest and best use of time right now?
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So do you want to tackle them separately or kind of go together?
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You want to go theory down to specifics?
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What do you think, Bill?
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What do you think?
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It s loaded.
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It s a loaded topic.
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Well, I think the easiest one is the first one, which is where a sales professional, external, outside, has a territory.
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And they re responsible for a certain amount of business and quota.
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And so then they re always faced with this issue of, how do I generate business?
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Cold calling might be the way they start the process.
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But I think that s very different than the SaaS SDR model.
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It is.
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I agree.
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But I think we can, do you want to cover that first?
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Yeah, let s do that.
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Yeah.
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So, so let s go outside first on outside territory rep.
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We got a territory.
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Should I be cold calling should be dropping on people called yay or nay.
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Okay.
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Let me go first.
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Yeah.
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Go.
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Uh, I think, uh, you should only do this after you ve done a few other things.
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Specifically, those things would be, um, identifying by company, by name, by title, the people that you actually want to interact with via LinkedIn,
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or there s some other tools and websites that you can use to help you find people, all right?
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So I don t think it should be your number one strategy, for sure.
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I think you should do some other things first.
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I agree.
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I agree.
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And then once you identify those people, you should move into that second level connection to see if you can get a warm introduction, either from a customer, client, or friend of yours.
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First, once you ve exhausted all those things, then I am okay with you dropping it on someone to see who you can meet, because I think you ve exhausted the more efficient methods to try to get a new meeting with someone in a territory.
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I concur, Brian Neely.
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Okey dokey.
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Thank you.
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I don t disagree with anything there.
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I think that it fits in with the, if you look at this as a Parthenon, which we ve talked about before, it s not all cold calling.
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It s not all LinkedIn.
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It s not all anything.
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It s a combination of lots of different things that you re doing and different channels that you have out there working.
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I think it s important, but it s not nearly as important as connecting on LinkedIn.
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No.
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So it s good.
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No connecting outside.
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Can you help me with the Parthenon thing?
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What s a Parthenon?
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Yeah, the Parthenon is a Greek structure that has columns or pillars.
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Yeah.
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And it s the old J. Abraham thing about never put all your eggs in one basket.
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So if you re going to have something that is stable, you ll have lots of different vehicles and coal calling or
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Lead generation, you got cold calling, you got webinars, you got bop bop, you got all different things.
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I thought Parthenon was just a plate, like the Parthenon is one place.
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Isn t there a famous, is it an amphitheater called the Parthenon?
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Or is that in Greece?
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It s in somewhere over there.
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OK.
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Yeah.
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Back from my Latin club days.
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Okay, so I think that answers that one.
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I would say one little asterisk there.
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If you re in a territory, and I m a fan of this, I am okay with you cold calling connectors.
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If you know people in your marketplace that are non-competitive, that you know also call in the same type of person that you do,
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They re another sales professional.
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I am absolutely okay with you calling on those sorts of people.
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Okay?
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Thumbs up?
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Yeah.
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Oh, yeah.
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We re good.
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We re 824, 825, 826.
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Okay.
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Now let s move to the inside.
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No.
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Oh, sorry.
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You haven t let me go yet.
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You just went on the Parthenon and everything.
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Oh, Parthenon.
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Screw the Parthenon.
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But here s this, and this goes for both inside and outside.
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So maybe this is a good segue.
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I like it.
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is I think a lot of times we forget that there is a funnel.
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There is a sequence of events from the time that I first make that call to the time that a person becomes a client.
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And I don t think sales professionals and definitely not a lot of marketing people, I know we have some listening, but if you do this, then I m sorry for the insult.
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Spend a lot of time with funnel.
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So what is the what is your sales funnel?
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I don t mean sales funnel like well, I got prospects suspects I don t mean that I m talking about when when you meet somebody and you do a drop-in or you do a LinkedIn or a cold call Where are you taking them?
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Yeah, that s good And I think if you re going to create something that s scalable truly scalable so that you re not waking up in
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every fricking after, the first of every month saying, OK, I got to start over again today.
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I think you need to be thinking, I think you need to be thinking about what s the funnel.
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And the funnel might be maybe you drop in and you hand off a white paper that you did and you introduce yourself to the owner and say, I know you re busy.
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I just wanted to hand this off to you.
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It s a checklist or it s a white paper on how to get more out of your accounting services.
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I ll follow up later with you.
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And then you follow up later, and there s something else.
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And I m not saying it s always got to be collateral or some kind of document.
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But what is that funnel?
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Because chances are, if you ve been in business longer than a year, there s things that work, and there are things that don t work.
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And you just got to figure out, what s that sequence of events?
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So whatever you do, inside SDR, BDR, LinkedIn,
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Drop in, cold call.
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You engage them in the funnel, and you start moving them through it.
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That prevents you from getting too quick to say, are you a prospect or not, before they ve really ever gone through the funnel.
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Yes.
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Outstanding.
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Outstanding.
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And in the, I m going to say it again, SaaS model, you have what s called the MQL, Marketing Qualified Lead.
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And the problem is, Bill, with what your model is.
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So the marketing does all that.
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And then once it gets to a certain point, the SDR gets to it, gets a hold of it, and that sort of thing.
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This is the MQL for salespeople, what you re talking about.
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So the salespeople should have their own version of that that s educating that person.
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How is it done by marketing?
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Yeah, it s done by marketing.
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you know, the education, so it s just like broad marketing.
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So if I opt into an email list or something, and then it scores me, it scores me.
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And it s different in different places.
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That s kind of a generic thing.
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So the inside, let s go to that inside cold call thing.
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I think we have to, thank you.
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We have to do more research than we re doing.
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I think what we re doing now is we re just worried about 100 calls a day.
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And so the depth is nil.
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There s no depth to what I m doing because I m so rote and robotic in what I m doing.
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Therefore, when I do get what I see as a success as an inside salesperson, I get the demo scheduled, air quotes, demo scheduled.
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There is no depth, and when the person gets on that I handed to the A, who does a demo, there s no depth there.
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There has to be depth, and depth doesn t take that long.
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It takes an extra 14, 15 seconds if you re gonna call somebody to pop in their LinkedIn page and just see their history, where they ve been, and who they know, and that sort of thing.
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It s just so easy to do, and I m shocked at how many people don t do that when they re in this kind of cold calling mode.
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So you mean depth of knowledge about the person you re calling.
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Yes, yes.
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And yeah.
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And where they are, and their company, and that sort of thing.
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And I know the contrarians, is that a word?
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The contrarians, the people who are contrarians at the gate.
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They are.
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They are.
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They re in the gate, right?
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It s locked.
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Never mind.
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Yeah.
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We re all day in Roman Greece today, right?
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Should have worn my toga.
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I didn t.
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I wear my toga.
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Please don t.
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I won t.
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Don t worry.
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My fraternity, though, had a toga party in college.
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It was a big, the beta toga.
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We ll talk about that later.
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Brian, that was 35 years ago.
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So let s come present.
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It was really fun, though.
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We ll talk about that later.
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Yeah, so the depth.
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I was talking about the depth.
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So when we just focus on the volume of the calls, we miss the chance to go deep and find out other information about the person that I m talking to and or the buyer.
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And I m not talking rapport stuff, like they like bass fishing.
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That s not what I m talking about.
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I m talking about their
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where they ve been, their career path, what they do, their role, who else in there.
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A lot of people that like bass fishing.
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Exactly, right?
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So do you fish?
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Oh, you re from Wyoming.
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You must like to fish.
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What s that fish on the wall?
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Did you catch that?
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Nope, this isn t my office.
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Thanks, though.
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Well, here s something that I heard from a person that I spoke with about a month ago who had just gone through
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we ll call it a big five sales training program.
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And it s a three or four day immersion where they bring you into wherever and they do it.
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And you would have heard of this.
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I ll write it down.
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Let me see this, where is it?
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Okay, you ve heard of that.
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So anyway, there s several of those and that s cool, they re good.
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They don t teach any technique in those.
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It s interesting because they teach a lot of theory and they teach a lot of, well, you got to find out where the pain is.
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You got to find out where their needs are, what their expectations are.
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You got to find out who in the organization is the fox and the hen and the bear and who are all the decision makers.
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And I do like that.
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I think you need to know that the lay of the land
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but there s never any technique.
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And I asked the person I was speaking with, I said, well, did they tell you how to find the pain and how to find the person who s going to be making the decision?
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And they said, no, they just said, find them.
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Well, that s a huge problem.
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And so if you re getting trained by these big five and they re in there talking theory,
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and just academic theory, and you re not getting down to, okay, well, how do I ask the question that s supposed to be finding out whether this person that I just got on the phone with 30 seconds ago, and I m gonna ask them questions about what their problems are, they don t even know me.
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How s that gonna work?
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And the answer is, it s not gonna work.
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So I think as you think about cold calling and
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Again, whether it s a SAS, SDR, you ve got to figure out a way to gain trust quickly and maybe not even ask those questions on the first call.
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I might even suggest the first call is just, you know what?
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This is Bob Smith.
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SDR, I have no idea, if anything, that we do.
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I just want to reach out, make a connection.
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If we want to talk later, we can.
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What s going on there in Boston?
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I mean, maybe that s a better way, because now when you call them back, there s a little trickster.
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Totally.
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It s an awareness call.
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And we re trying to vault the process that you ve got in your book, right?
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to get a demo real quick and get them on, and we re just measuring the behavior.
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Because that s how we re paid and measured.
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And that s what s missing in the cold calling model, in my opinion, when it s inside, is that it s not aligned with the customer s best interest.
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That s what I believe to be true.
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I agree.
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If you align it with the customer s best interest, I d say cold call all day long, because it ll come through nice and clear.
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But instead, if we re going to do that, what I d love to do, maybe some people do this, show the customer the scoreboard to say, yeah, today I make about 85 calls a day.
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My goal is to get 10 of you on the hook to do a demo.
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And if I do that, I get to bang this gong or this drum back here.
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And then bang it as a sample.
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Exactly right.
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Like this, like so.
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And then pass you off to an AE whose job it is to close you.
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So if you want to do that, when can I schedule the demo?
1
SPEAKER_01
Let s just be transparent about what s going on.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it s hidden in there sometimes.
1
SPEAKER_01
We just like looking at the dashboard, trying to mechanize it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think it s a better way to do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
So John Wooden.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Familiar with John Wooden?
1
SPEAKER_00
Heard of him.
1
SPEAKER_00
He was a coach.
1
SPEAKER_00
He was.
1
SPEAKER_00
Coach UCLA for many years, basketball coach.
1
SPEAKER_00
He just died here a few years ago.
1
SPEAKER_00
He used to have a saying.
1
SPEAKER_00
I may have even mentioned it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Did I?
1
SPEAKER_00
Were you talking about this?
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let s hear it.
1
SPEAKER_00
His saying was, go slow to be fast.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think it s the same thing here.
1
SPEAKER_00
Maybe on the first cold call, we can go a little slower, which will help us speed up the end result, because we re not going to run into all the resistance that we would if we start going a little too fast.
1
SPEAKER_00
I like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Go slow to get faster, go slow to speed up.
1
SPEAKER_01
I ve learned that, I don t know, I ve not fact-checked this, maybe Doug can fact-check this, that first responders, when you see them going to a big scene or something like that, first responders always walk.
1
SPEAKER_01
You notice that?
1
SPEAKER_01
They do.
1
SPEAKER_01
They always walk.
1
SPEAKER_01
They never run.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because if they fall down and get hurt, it damages the process.
1
SPEAKER_01
So they always walked swiftly.
1
SPEAKER_01
They always walk.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m always wondering, why are they walking?
1
SPEAKER_01
This guy s like, his leg s like compound fracture.
1
SPEAKER_00
How would you do it?
1
SPEAKER_00
Sticking out, sprint out there.
1
SPEAKER_00
You d be flying the other way, though.
1
SPEAKER_01
But they do.
1
SPEAKER_01
They go slow to go fast, because they know it s methodical.
1
SPEAKER_01
I feel like in the ER, they do this.
1
SPEAKER_01
In surgery, it s got some rhythm to it, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
But it s not frantic.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that s what I feel like what you just said, is cold calling.
1
SPEAKER_01
We re frantic sometimes.
1
SPEAKER_01
I get 140 calls.
1
SPEAKER_01
I get 170.
1
SPEAKER_01
I get that.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like, slow down to go fast.
1
SPEAKER_00
And leaders, you feed into this.
1
SPEAKER_00
You do.
1
SPEAKER_00
Managers, sorry.
1
SPEAKER_00
But you feed into this because of your fancy, clever schemes, payment schemes, and measurement schemes, and metric schemes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we ve heard them all.
1
SPEAKER_00
And Brian and I have been in the room together when people have explained these things to us.
1
SPEAKER_00
And after we leave, we always say, is that going to be the best way to inspire people to do their best work, bring their best game every day, and get the results?
1
SPEAKER_00
And the answer is no.
1
SPEAKER_00
But in absence of anything else, that s all you have.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s what you ll use.
1
SPEAKER_01
Good stuff, send us an email, listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com, put come see us into the subject line.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you d like Bill, Brian, both of us to come visit you, we d love to go do that 2018.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay, see you next time, bye.