0
SPEAKER_01
Guess what, Will?
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SPEAKER_01
What s up, Mango?
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SPEAKER_01
I ve been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we ve done over 250 episodes, we don t really talk about murders or cults.
0
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I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
0
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We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
0
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And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
0
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So what you re saying is everyone should be listening.
0
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Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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I m Diosa.
0
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And I m Mala.
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We are the creators of Locatora Radio, a radiophonic novela, which is a fancy way of saying... A podcast!
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Welcome to Locatora Radio, Season 9.
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Love at first listen.
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We re older, we re wiser, and we re podcasting through a new decade of our lives.
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This season, we re falling in love with podcasting all over again and getting to the heart of our stories.
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We re going places we ve never gone before, and we re bringing you along with us with new segments, correspondence and a brand new sound.
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Season nine is kicking off with an intimate interview with Grammy Award winning singer songwriter Natalia Lafourcade.
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What s giving you hope right now?
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Well, when I see what music does to people, it gives me a lot of hope.
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If you liked Locatora before, you re going to love season nine.
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Subscribe to our show and you ll see why Locatora is your prima s favorite podcast.
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Listen to Locatora Radio as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_02
Hi everyone, it s Chuck here.
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I m going back in time.
0
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Let s all go back in time together.
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In fact, this Saturday for our select episode to summertime, August 15th, 2017.
0
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And this one is about stuttering, how stuttering works.
0
SPEAKER_02
It is pretty interesting actually.
0
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So check it out.
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Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
0
SPEAKER_00
Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m Josh Clark.
0
SPEAKER_00
There s Charles W., Chuck Bryant, and there s Noel, our guest producer today, which means it s still Stuff You Should Know.
0
SPEAKER_02
That s right.
0
SPEAKER_02
The Jerry Free edition.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Feels weird.
0
SPEAKER_00
She s like, I can t do this today.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m going to the mall.
0
SPEAKER_00
She s always leaving us for the mall.
0
SPEAKER_00
I know.
0
SPEAKER_02
That s weird.
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SPEAKER_02
Ever since we did that mall episode and she learned it was a thing.
0
Right.
0
SPEAKER_00
She s like, this sounds like my kind of place.
0
SPEAKER_00
How you doing?
0
SPEAKER_00
I m doing pretty good.
0
SPEAKER_00
I ve been wanting to do this one for a long time.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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And I think I started to research it and I was like, oh man.
0
SPEAKER_00
Maybe we went on tour or something like that.
0
SPEAKER_00
I got pulled away from it and never went back to it.
0
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So I m glad we re doing it finally.
0
SPEAKER_02
So stuttering if you re in North America or Australia and stammering if you re in the UK perhaps.
0
SPEAKER_02
Is that how it works?
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
0
SPEAKER_00
I know that stammering is what they call it in the UK.
0
SPEAKER_00
Do they call it stuttering in Australia as well?
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, this thing I pulled up just said, in general, it s North American Australia say stutter, and UK they say stammer, but it s the same thing.
0
SPEAKER_00
Right.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s basically, I think the way that they get around that is calling it disfluency.
0
SPEAKER_00
No one calls it that.
0
SPEAKER_00
The scientists do.
0
SPEAKER_00
I never heard that word.
0
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
0
SPEAKER_00
Disfluency.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I think that s actually the clinical name for what we call stuttering or stammering, depending on where you are.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
And wasn t that a Colin Firth movie called The Disfluent Prince Who Would Be King?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
0
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I think that was the working title.
0
SPEAKER_00
What did they call it?
0
SPEAKER_00
The King s Speech?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
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Pretty good movie.
0
SPEAKER_00
That was cute.
0
SPEAKER_00
Cute.
0
SPEAKER_00
It was.
0
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Anytime you get Jeffrey Wright in there in an inspirational role, it s going to be a cute movie.
0
SPEAKER_00
No, not Jeffrey Wright, Jeffrey Rush.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, agreed.
0
SPEAKER_00
Jeffrey Wright always plays like this super smart, like kind of like a deep state guy.
0
SPEAKER_02
Jeffrey Wright, he was Basquiat, right?
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SPEAKER_02
Am I thinking of the right guy?
0
SPEAKER_00
Did he play Basquiat?
0
SPEAKER_00
I think so.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t think so.
0
SPEAKER_00
In the movie Basquiat?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Isn t that Jeffrey Wright?
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t think so.
0
SPEAKER_00
Who s Jeffrey Wright?
0
SPEAKER_00
Jeffrey Wright has been in tons of stuff.
0
SPEAKER_00
Just look him up.
0
SPEAKER_00
You ll be like, oh, that s Jeffrey Wright.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_00
This is going terribly already.
0
SPEAKER_00
No, it s great.
0
SPEAKER_00
This is basically like the podcast equivalent of stuttering.
0
SPEAKER_00
Because, Chuck, stuttering, also known as stammering, better known as disfluency, is an interrupted flow of speech, okay?
0
SPEAKER_00
But when it starts to qualify for what we would call like stuttering or stammering, it s really noticeable.
0
SPEAKER_00
It has an interrupting effect typically on
0
SPEAKER_00
the conversation or the communication that s meant to be going on, the speaking that s going on.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s on the far end of the spectrum.
0
SPEAKER_00
On the other end of the spectrum, apparently, just about everybody engages in disfluent speech.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m particularly guilty because I say um a lot, and that s a form of disfluency.
0
SPEAKER_00
And disfluency, Chuck, comes from the idea that
0
SPEAKER_00
that when you speak fluently, you re speaking in a flowing manner that is easy to follow typically and is uninterrupted.
0
SPEAKER_00
But when you start adding things like um, or pauses, or that kind of thing, like that, that s disfluency.
0
SPEAKER_00
And again, disfluency is a normal part of communication if it occurs about less than 10% of the time.
0
SPEAKER_00
After that you start to get into the stuttering slash stammering spectrum, or side of the disfluent spectrum.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and one thing I learned, you know, you and I both QA, quality assure, each episode, which means, this is a little behind the curtain peek,
0
SPEAKER_02
but Jerry will send them back to us and you listen to it once and then give her any like edit notes or whatever and thoughts.
0
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And then I will listen to it and generally I have no edit notes.
0
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And I found that- I know we re both gonna be so self-conscious about that.
0
SPEAKER_02
Well, that s where I was getting to though.
0
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I found early on when listening to these episodes of ourselves that it doesn t pay to focus on
0
SPEAKER_02
disfluency in our own language, because it can drive you nuts.
0
SPEAKER_00
It really can.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so we have a conversational podcast, so we re not trying to, you know, we re not Churchill or Henry or, was it Henry VI?
0
SPEAKER_02
No.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it was, I don t remember.
0
SPEAKER_00
Just Colin Firth, how about that?
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, we re not Colin Firth addressing the country on the airwaves, where it was very important that he come across as, you know, had a certain fluency.
0
SPEAKER_02
But when it comes to stuff like this,
0
SPEAKER_02
I think people are used to the fact, like, occasionally we ll get emails like, oh, you guys sure do say like and um a lot.
0
SPEAKER_00
Right.
0
SPEAKER_00
And we re just like, our response is better luck finding a different podcast.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, this is not for you.
0
SPEAKER_00
No.
0
SPEAKER_02
So anyway, I learned to not drive myself crazy with that stuff.
0
SPEAKER_00
No, but it s funny you bring that up because I was just yesterday listening to the Stockholm Syndrome episode for Stuff You Should Know Selects.
0
SPEAKER_02
Right.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I must have said like five times over the span of 10 words.
0
SPEAKER_00
You can t even don t even listen to that.
0
SPEAKER_00
But even I noticed it.
0
SPEAKER_00
I normally have, I m pretty good about tuning it out, but even I noticed it that time.
0
SPEAKER_00
And it really kind of raises this issue that the whole thing about stuttering or stammering is not that it s a disorder or disease or the sign of an unintelligent person or that the person can t think of what they mean to say.
0
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely none of those things.
0
SPEAKER_00
It is strictly an interruption in what we would consider normal communication.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so attention is drawn to it, and it turns out that that just makes the problem worse and worse.
0
SPEAKER_00
So it turns into this vicious cycle.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
But that s all it is.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s it.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s really it.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I mean, like, there s different theories about what s behind it or what could make it worse or what could possibly make it better.
0
SPEAKER_00
But really, all it is, is just interrupted communication between two people.
0
SPEAKER_00
Because it s not like the person who s stuttering stutters in their head.
0
SPEAKER_00
like it s strictly when they re speaking and communicating with other people.
0
SPEAKER_00
So it s pretty, it s a unique, it s a unique condition.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and there are generally three ways in which that flow can be interrupted.
0
SPEAKER_02
One is repetition.
0
SPEAKER_02
So if you say the first few, like the beginning of a word, if you repeat
1
SPEAKER_02
it a few times in a row and then say the word.
1
SPEAKER_02
Another would be prolongation, so if the word is like, you would roll that L out by itself for a long time.
1
SPEAKER_02
And then the last would be an abnormal stoppage, which is just no sound at all coming out.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, a block.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, a complete block.
1
SPEAKER_02
Have you known anyone with a severe stutter?
1
SPEAKER_05
Sure, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_05
I ve known people with stutters before.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I know somebody with a very severe stutter and it s always interesting because I think, and we ll get to like what you should and shouldn t do as a participant in a conversation with someone who stutters.
1
SPEAKER_02
Right.
1
SPEAKER_02
Before I read this, I knew that just as a courtesy, what you probably shouldn t do, which is correct, is try and complete someone s sentence for them.
1
SPEAKER_02
Even though that urge is there, you know, it s just a natural instinct because people do that, you know, when speaking all the time.
1
SPEAKER_02
If someone can t think of a word or something, but like you said, that s not what s going on.
1
SPEAKER_05
No, no.
1
SPEAKER_05
And I mean, I think that urge also comes from a good place, typically.
1
SPEAKER_05
Like, you re not saying, like, pitch is the word stupid.
1
SPEAKER_05
That s not what you re saying when you finish their sentence.
1
SPEAKER_05
You re helping them along to keep the conversation on track, right?
1
SPEAKER_05
What you re also doing is saying, you re not communicating effectively.
1
SPEAKER_05
I m jumping in and taking over on your behalf.
1
SPEAKER_05
Just sit there and be quiet.
1
SPEAKER_05
So, yeah, we ll talk more about what to do or what not to do when you re in a conversation with somebody with a stutter.
1
SPEAKER_02
I know what you mean.
1
SPEAKER_02
You re trying to help.
1
SPEAKER_02
You re not trying to be a jerk.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
But it s not a help.
1
SPEAKER_02
No, it s not.
1
SPEAKER_02
But I imagine they also understand to a certain degree, too.
1
SPEAKER_05
Well, probably just from being exposed to it so much for so long.
1
SPEAKER_02
And some people feel, you know, like with anything like this, some people might be used to it and have been like, well, you know, that s how I talk.
1
SPEAKER_02
I ve tried to correct it and I ve kind of learned to live with it.
1
SPEAKER_02
And other people might still feel really bad about it.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, I read a, I guess an essay, a blog post basically by a guy named, man, I can t find it anywhere.
1
SPEAKER_05
Great, great blog post where he said, I recognize and accept my stutter.
1
SPEAKER_05
And it was on say.org.
1
SPEAKER_05
His name was Danny Litwack, L-I-T-W-A-C-K, Litwack maybe.
1
SPEAKER_05
I embrace and accept my stutter.
1
SPEAKER_05
It s great.
1
SPEAKER_05
He talks about his experience with growing up with a stutter his whole life and just what a negative impact it had on him for a very long time.
1
SPEAKER_05
And I saw this elsewhere, but the first step toward either
1
SPEAKER_05
getting past your stutter, or just getting over the fact that you have a stutter, is accepting that you have a stutter.
1
SPEAKER_05
And that s, from what I can gather, a really big first step.
1
SPEAKER_05
Because I think people recognize that they have a stutter to themselves, but there s also a, they take measures to protect against sharing that with other people.
1
SPEAKER_05
So I read another,
1
SPEAKER_05
a story about another person who grew up with a stutter.
1
SPEAKER_05
And when they got to, I think, college or something, on the first day of this one class, everybody went around and said where they were from.
1
SPEAKER_05
And this person said that they forgot where they were from, rather than having to say Wilmington, Delaware, because of the W and the D. So instead, they told the class they forgot where they were born and grew up.
1
SPEAKER_02
Because in that case, there were certain triggers.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, the W and the D, the W in Wilmington and the D in Delaware.
1
SPEAKER_05
So there s like a lot of obfuscation that people with stutters engage in.
1
SPEAKER_05
People with stutters are not to be trusted, in other words.
1
SPEAKER_05
But they have to basically just take steps to make it seem like they don t have a stutter.
1
SPEAKER_05
And I think what this guy, Danny Litwack, was saying, and like I said, I saw elsewhere,
1
SPEAKER_05
people saying like, I have a stutter, like this is how I talk.
1
SPEAKER_05
You re gonna have to like either just walk away during the conversation or just let me finish on my own time.
1
SPEAKER_05
But this is me and this is how I talk and I m accepting it or learning to and you re gonna have to as well.
1
SPEAKER_05
And that s the first step as I understand it.
1
SPEAKER_05
Once you re an adult, I should say.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think there s so many things in life where that s the case.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh, yeah, man.
1
SPEAKER_02
Instead of like at a certain point at a certain age,
1
SPEAKER_02
I think, or at least I got to a point where, like, well, I can really continue to work to try and change this thing, or I can just accept that this is kind of who I am.
1
SPEAKER_02
Right.
1
SPEAKER_02
And be happy.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yep.
1
SPEAKER_02
Don t worry.
1
SPEAKER_02
Be happy now.
1
SPEAKER_02
Don t ever strive to be better, people.
1
SPEAKER_02
Just accept how messed up you are.
1
SPEAKER_02
Right.
1
SPEAKER_05
and force everyone else around you to accept it.
1
SPEAKER_02
Should we take a little break here?
1
SPEAKER_02
All right, we ll take a break and we ll come back and get into some of the stats and how stutters can develop right after this.
1
SPEAKER_06
Guess what, Bango?
1
SPEAKER_06
What s that, Will?
1
SPEAKER_06
So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
1
SPEAKER_07
I know, that s why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
1
SPEAKER_07
It s about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it s called Earthquake House.
1
SPEAKER_06
Mango, I m going to cut you off right there.
1
SPEAKER_06
Why don t we just tell people about our show instead?
1
SPEAKER_07
Yeah, that s a better idea.
1
SPEAKER_07
So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world s most important questions.
1
SPEAKER_07
Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
1
SPEAKER_07
Is William Shatner s best acting work in Esperanto?
1
SPEAKER_07
Also, what happened to Esperanto?
1
SPEAKER_06
Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
1
SPEAKER_06
How do dollar stores stay in business?
1
SPEAKER_06
And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
1
SPEAKER_06
There absolutely is.
1
SPEAKER_07
And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
1
SPEAKER_07
But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius.
1
SPEAKER_06
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_01
A new season of Bridgerton is here.
1
SPEAKER_01
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m your host, Gabrielle Collins.
1
SPEAKER_01
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
1
SPEAKER_01
Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
1
SPEAKER_01
Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
1
SPEAKER_01
Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown s pen.
1
SPEAKER_01
We re discussing it all.
1
SPEAKER_01
I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
1
SPEAKER_01
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
1
SPEAKER_01
Then,
1
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Fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_01
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
1
SPEAKER_03
Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception.
1
SPEAKER_03
I m Andrea Gunning, and now we re sharing an all new story of betrayal.
1
SPEAKER_03
Stacey thought she had the perfect husband.
1
SPEAKER_03
doctor, father, family man.
1
SPEAKER_03
It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford to hide behind.
1
SPEAKER_04
They led me into the house, and I mean, it was like a movie.
1
SPEAKER_04
He was sitting at our kitchen table.
1
SPEAKER_04
The cops were guarding him.
1
SPEAKER_03
Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save himself.
1
SPEAKER_04
I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed.
1
SPEAKER_00
He did not just say, I wish he was dead.
1
SPEAKER_00
He actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him.
1
SPEAKER_04
He, to me, is scarier than Jeffrey Dahmer.
1
SPEAKER_03
Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_02
All right, so we re back, promised stats, the stats you shall receive.
1
SPEAKER_02
1% roughly of adults in the world stutter.
1
SPEAKER_02
But that is not 1% of children because many times, in fact about 75% of the time,
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, 5% of children stutter, and about 75% of the time, they will lose that disfluence as they grow older, leaving that at a 1% number as adults.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, and so in the U.S., that means there s about 3 million or so, maybe 3.5 million people, adults, that stutter, right?
1
SPEAKER_05
More women.
1
SPEAKER_05
Is it more women or more men?
2
SPEAKER_00
More men.
2
SPEAKER_01
Four to five to one.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like four to five in childhood, and then it goes to like three or four in adulthood.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
So by far, men stutter more than women.
2
SPEAKER_00
And although, strangely, boys tend to naturally lose their stutter if they re going to lose their stutter in childhood more than girls.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and I don t think they found any rhyme or reason to that at all, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, man, there s like a lot of lack of understanding as far as stuttering goes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Scientifically, socially, there s just, we just don t know that much about it, which is surprising because apparently as far back as Moses, people have been stuttering on record.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we ll tell that story later.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
About 60, there could be a genetic basis because about 60% of people who stutter have a family member who stutters.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and I also saw that among monozygotic, also known as identical twins, if one twin stutters, there s a 90% chance that the other one does as well.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
But for dizygotic, like fraternal twins, there s only a 20% chance.
2
SPEAKER_00
So, there s clearly a genetic basis to stuttering somehow.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, but it s also one of those things where it can be genetic, doesn t have to be.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes if you, like, suffer a head trauma, you might develop a stutter.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes it s developmental.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes it could be, obviously, with something like Parkinson s disease, that could be a symptom.
2
SPEAKER_01
But
2
SPEAKER_01
Those are, to me, I think, probably different kinds of stuttering, but still stuttering.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
So there s basically two main categories.
2
SPEAKER_00
Developmental, which is by far the more, the one that accounts for the most cases of stuttering.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then the other is acquired.
2
SPEAKER_00
like you said, say from like Parkinson s or they put you on a prescription that like suddenly is making you stutter.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s also psychogenic, which is supposedly an emotional trauma can give you a stutter.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if that s just leftover lore, because apparently they used to think all stutters were the result of some psychology.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they just say, well, no, it s possible.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or some people have it and just haven t figured out that it s not the case at all.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or if there really is a small section of people who do have psychogenic stutters.
2
SPEAKER_00
But all of those would fall under acquired.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then the other one is developmental.
2
SPEAKER_01
Boy, how about that guy that took mushrooms and quit stuttering?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s so interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
I saw a TED talk of his once.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he s like all about mushrooms saving the world.
2
SPEAKER_00
Paul Stamets?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he leads off our article on how stuff works.
2
SPEAKER_01
Had a severe stutter, was very affected by it, kind of withdrew socially, went camping one time, took a bunch of psychedelic mushrooms and climbed a tree, got up there, decided he could not climb down, and then this storm came in and got really intense and he said he sort of felt one with the world,
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, which sounds about right.
2
SPEAKER_01
And, uh, eventually the storm passed, he came down and while he was up there during this intense experience, he was like, I will not stutter anymore.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he just kept saying that, came down and he had lost his stutter.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and apparently he didn t relapse, which is pretty unusual, I think.
2
SPEAKER_01
So he started studying mushrooms for a living.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he became a mycologist.
2
SPEAKER_00
Man, I ve said this before, I ll say it again.
2
SPEAKER_00
One of the best articles I ve ever read in my life was called Blood Spore, and I think it was in Harper s, and it was about a murder in the world of mycologists.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was just so interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Blood Spore.
2
SPEAKER_01
Coming soon to a theater near you.
2
SPEAKER_00
I hope so.
2
SPEAKER_00
You should write the script.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
So Stamets was remarkably lucky in that he just basically decided not to stutter anymore and stopped stuttering.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
The fact that he didn t relapse is probably what s most remarkable because I think relapsing among stuttering treatments is actually pretty common.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
But again, this is once you get out of childhood.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s fairly common to develop a stutter as you re a child, as you re learning to talk.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then it s equally common to lose that.
2
SPEAKER_00
that stutter as you age, usually within 18 months of developing the onset of the stutter.
2
SPEAKER_00
But then as you acquire this or develop this stutter as you get older, it apparently becomes more and more set in.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that seems to be because of the plasticity of your brain when you re a kid.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s almost like, from what I can gather, it s like if you have a stutter past a certain point, it almost gets locked into your brain as your neural pathways solidify and cement.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that makes sense.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like you learned to have a stutter after a while.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think they say to wait, I think they wait like three months before they even start looking into it because that s how fleeting a stutter can be when you re a little kid.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
After three months, they ll say, all right, maybe we should start looking into that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
You d want to go to a speech pathologist who will be able to diagnose it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And usually what they re looking for when you take your child who s developed a stutter to a speech pathologist is how pronounced it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s a guy in I think the late 90s named Barry Guitar.
2
SPEAKER_00
He sounds like he played, you know, guitar for the band Boston.
2
SPEAKER_01
He knows all the chords.
2
SPEAKER_01
No wait, that s guitar George.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sorry.
2
SPEAKER_00
What s that from?
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, come on.
2
SPEAKER_00
Guitar George?
2
SPEAKER_00
Is that a Ray Stephens song?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, it s from Dire Straits, Sultans of Swing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, gotcha.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s a good song.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is a good song.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So Barry Guitar came with five levels of stuttering development, and I already referenced the first... I know his name s off.
2
SPEAKER_00
I just can t get over that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I already referenced the first level, which is you have less than 10% of your speech is disfluent.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s anybody walking around like that, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Unless you re like the king of England or something.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then ironically, unless you re that one king who had a stutter.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then it goes on from there and just gets worse and worse.
2
SPEAKER_00
But one of the things that s attendant with these different stages of development of a stutter are
2
SPEAKER_00
like emotional problems or symptoms, like comorbid symptoms along with the stutter.
2
SPEAKER_00
So there can be things like blinking, like pursing your lips where you re frustrated, where you re angry, where you re fearful, where you re anxious.
2
SPEAKER_00
in conjunction with stuttering.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so this is the kind of thing that the speech pathologist will be looking for to kind of diagnose your kid like, no, this is just normal kid stuff, or actually this stutter is developing faster than we d like it to, so we need to start treating it now.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, that makes sense because dopamine, we ve talked a lot about dopamine on the show, the neurotransmitter.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you have an overabundance of dopamine, we talked about in the Tourette s episode.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is that one of the things that can be comorbid with stuttering?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I know too much dopamine can lead to a stutter as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, supposedly, so dopamine controls movement, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And if you have too much, it makes you have tics like Tourette s, you re saying?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, it can.
2
SPEAKER_00
So, I noticed this, that Parkinson s and dopamine are, I think they re like, Parkinson s has to do with too much dopamine?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And Parkinson s is one of the ways that you could acquire neurogenically a stutter.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that makes total sense, that there s something in your brain with dopamine transmission to where you have maybe too much of it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so you re trying to, you re having trouble getting the thoughts in your head into the movements that it takes to create the speech.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, it s a little clumsy the way the brain does this.
2
SPEAKER_01
It would be a lot easier if it was streamlined in one part of the brain, but there are two distinct parts of the brain that deal with language processing, and one is the one that processes it, and one articulates it in a motor skill way.
2
SPEAKER_01
And when those two things have done brain imaging mapping, and they found that
2
SPEAKER_01
there s some sort of discontinuity between those two processes going on.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
When there s a stutter.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s stuttering, right.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it could be too much dopamine, that s one thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Again, the research into stuttering is so basic at the moment, it s really surprising.
2
SPEAKER_00
What they re trying to figure out, though, is are you
3
SPEAKER_01
born with the stutter, like when you re born, you re gonna have this problem because your brain isn t using dopamine properly or is overproducing dopamine, or are you, as your brain s developing, something goes a little off to the side, to the left, and your brain has trouble with dopamine from that point on.
3
SPEAKER_01
So they re trying to figure out the etiology of it, in other words.
3
SPEAKER_00
Did you look into this, the genes, the four genes?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, a little bit.
3
SPEAKER_00
Did you find names for those?
3
SPEAKER_01
I did not.
3
SPEAKER_01
I didn t either.
3
SPEAKER_01
That is how basic the research is right now.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re not even saying what genes they re finding.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, apparently they did discover four different genes that are linked to these proteins, and these proteins are sort of like, they re responsible for what s called cellular trafficking.
3
SPEAKER_00
So they kind of make sure that the elements of the cell end up where they need to be within that cell.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they said that more than one neurological disorder can be linked to this trafficking process.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I guess it s related to those proteins in those genes?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but they re like, who knows?
3
SPEAKER_01
They ve gotten to the point where they have identified there s something up with these proteins in the cells, and it s linked to stuttering somehow.
3
SPEAKER_01
Now just give us like 10 years to go figure out how.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, they re starting to realize now there s some sort of genetic basis to this, to stuttering.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, I mean, I think the twin study, that says a lot right there.
3
SPEAKER_00
For sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
Can we talk about Moses?
3
SPEAKER_00
I think it s high time we talked about Moses.
3
SPEAKER_01
We ve been dancing around the burning bush for a while now.
3
SPEAKER_01
I can t believe that got a laugh.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, I was laughing because every time I think of Burning Bush, I think of Three Amigos and how funny that singing Bush was.
3
SPEAKER_01
I never saw that one.
3
SPEAKER_01
Three Amigos?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I could do the Three Amigo salute, but I never saw it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, man.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s a classic.
3
SPEAKER_01
Really?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Really?
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
Why is that surprising?
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_01
I feel like I would have seen it if it were a classic.
3
SPEAKER_01
Three comedic icons?
3
SPEAKER_01
You re right.
3
SPEAKER_01
Funny movie?
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I know why I never saw it, because Chevy Chase is in it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you don t watch it?
3
SPEAKER_01
No, I remember my dad raised me to really dislike Chevy Chase.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s right.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I probably wasn t allowed to see it.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s right, because you didn t see Fletch, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
I think I stopped watching Fletch, like, partway through.
3
SPEAKER_01
My dad had a real influence on me.
3
SPEAKER_01
Why didn t he like Chevy Chase, though?
3
SPEAKER_01
I have no idea.
3
SPEAKER_00
He had a bone to pick?
3
SPEAKER_01
I guess.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think he thought he was a jerk or something.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, he was.
3
SPEAKER_00
All right, so Moses, I know a lot about the Bible, because as listeners know, I was raised in the church, but I didn t know this.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t remember this story at all.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I hadn t heard it either.
3
SPEAKER_00
So apparently Moses was a little baby at one point, and the Pharaoh
3
SPEAKER_00
said, was warned, you know, that Moses was going to not be his friend when he grew up.
3
SPEAKER_00
So he said, all right, let me try something out.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m going to give this little baby Moses a choice between a bowl full of gold.
3
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
And a bowl full of hot coals.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is what you do with babies.
3
SPEAKER_00
If he chooses the gold, then I m going to kill him.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Typical, typical Egyptian stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So, of course, with a baby, Moses is going to reach for the gold.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then, apparently, an angel intervened.
3
SPEAKER_00
Todd.
3
SPEAKER_00
Todd the angel, and directed little Moses  hand to the hot coals instead.
3
SPEAKER_00
A little gruffly, if you ask Moses.
3
SPEAKER_00
Moses grabbed a hot coal, put it in his mouth, and that s how he got to the stutter.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he s blamed Todd ever since.
3
SPEAKER_00
And here s what I don t get is that Moses went to God and was like, Hey man, uh, I m supposed to lead the people out of Egypt.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have a bad stutter.
3
SPEAKER_00
Can you, uh, you know, can you do something for me?
3
SPEAKER_00
God.
3
SPEAKER_00
And God said, no sweat.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
He said, God, Mr. Ed.
3
SPEAKER_00
You didn t know that?
3
SPEAKER_00
Cause he was God.
3
SPEAKER_00
So God said, um, yeah, sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can help you out.
3
SPEAKER_00
Just have your brother, Aaron, take the mic.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Moses was like, I was more thinking like you d perform a miracle on me.
3
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, I probably could have thought of having Aaron speak for me as well, God.
3
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for that, though.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know how I missed that story.
3
SPEAKER_01
He apparently, there s a quote, I am heavy of mouth and heavy of tongue.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I saw some Bible site where they were debating whether or not what they were talking about was a stutter.
3
SPEAKER_01
Apparently some later Hebraic text said that Moses had trouble pronouncing th s, thorn sounds.
3
SPEAKER_01
It sounds more like he had a lisp than a stutter.
3
SPEAKER_01
But who knows?
3
SPEAKER_01
Let s go with stuttering though.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because a lot of people do say that Moses had a stutter.
3
SPEAKER_00
But he overcame.
3
SPEAKER_00
A thick tongue.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s pretty thick.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve gotten used to it.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I remember at first when we first started doing this, like, man, I should not be speaking for a living.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like this is, I have a speech impediment.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, you don t.
3
SPEAKER_01
Pure and simple.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, it s just everyone now just thinks, hey, that s Josh s voice.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s so grating.
3
SPEAKER_00
Smooth and silky.
3
SPEAKER_00
Who else in history, Josh?
3
SPEAKER_01
Let s see, the Emperor Justinian apparently had one.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or, no, I m sorry, I was wrong.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was Demosthenes.
3
SPEAKER_01
He was a Greek statesman.
3
SPEAKER_01
He apparently was smart enough to say, who could help me with a stutter?
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, how about an actor?
3
SPEAKER_01
Somebody who speaks, broadcasts their voice for a living.
3
SPEAKER_01
So he hired an actor to help him.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the actor had him do things like chew on pebbles and try to talk.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
smart.
3
SPEAKER_01
He did his speeches while he s walking uphill, I guess to control his breathing.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is actually pretty sharp stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think out of all the historical treatments that we re going to cover, this one might most closely resemble, aside from the mouthful of pebbles, modern treatment for stuttering.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, which is to say, speaking exercises.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, you did say Justinian.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if Justinian had
3
SPEAKER_00
the stutter, but his at the very least his physician, uh, ATS of Amita was one of the first people to say, Hey, maybe that the frenulum, you know, that little flap of skin under your tongue, uh, the connector to the bottom of your mouth.
3
SPEAKER_00
He was the first one that said, why don t we start slicing that thing up?
3
SPEAKER_00
And just the tongue in general, over the years, there have been all kinds of surgeon that tried variations of slicing the cranial limb or cutting down of the tongue itself.
3
SPEAKER_01
Now, I could probably use that one by H.D.
3
SPEAKER_01
Chaguin.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m sure that s how you say it, the second way.
3
SPEAKER_01
He basically said, stuttering is a result of an oversized tongue, which I have.
3
SPEAKER_01
Let s just slice and dice a little off the sides.
3
SPEAKER_01
But none of these things worked.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know, of course it didn t work.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s just horrific.
3
SPEAKER_01
Apparently, though, at the same time, there were these surgeons who get all the press because their stuff is so horrific.
3
SPEAKER_01
But there are also other people who were kind of on the right track a little more, like Moses Mendelssohn in the 18th century.
3
SPEAKER_01
He thought that there were too many ideas or thoughts that were flowing at once.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that it was basically, it was blocking speech.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s too much trying to get out.
3
SPEAKER_01
Basically like the Three Stooges model of stuttering.
3
SPEAKER_01
Remember they re all trying to go through the door?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you ve got too much to say and you want to just get it all out.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
That makes a little sense.
3
SPEAKER_01
Erasmus Darwin, he said that it was bashfulness, emotions like bashfulness that messed up the process of speaking, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Definitely onto something there as well.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then a psychologist named Sandow said that it was brought on by either a dread of speaking or an over-eagerness to speak, kind of like what Moses Mendelssohn was saying in the latter example.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it can be brought out by two completely opposite things?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
So, a lot of this actually is kind of in step with our current thought about stuttering.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so, either that means that these guys in the 18th century were prescient, or our understanding of stuttering is stuck in the 18th century.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m very curious to know which one it is.
3
SPEAKER_00
Shall we take a break?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
All right.
3
SPEAKER_00
We re gonna come back after this final break and talk about therapies that don t involve Cutting your tongue apart
4
SPEAKER_05
Guess what, Mango?
4
SPEAKER_05
What s that, Will?
4
SPEAKER_05
So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
4
SPEAKER_04
I know, that s why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
4
SPEAKER_04
It s about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it s called Earthquake House.
4
SPEAKER_05
Mango, I m going to cut you off right there.
4
SPEAKER_04
Why don t we just tell people about our show instead?
4
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, that s a better idea.
4
SPEAKER_04
So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world s most important questions.
4
SPEAKER_04
Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
4
SPEAKER_04
is William Shatner s best acting work in Esperanto.
4
SPEAKER_04
Also, what happened to Esperanto?
4
SPEAKER_05
Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
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SPEAKER_05
How do dollar stores stay in business?
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SPEAKER_05
And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
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SPEAKER_04
There absolutely is.
4
SPEAKER_04
And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
4
SPEAKER_04
But if you love mind blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune into part time genius.
4
SPEAKER_05
Listen to part time genius on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
4
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you
4
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A new season of Bridgerton is here.
4
SPEAKER_01
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m your host, Gabrielle Collins.
4
SPEAKER_01
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
4
SPEAKER_01
Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
4
SPEAKER_01
Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
4
SPEAKER_01
Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown s pen.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re discussing it all.
4
SPEAKER_01
I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
4
SPEAKER_01
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
4
SPEAKER_01
Then, fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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4
SPEAKER_06
Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception.
4
SPEAKER_06
I m Andrea Gunning, and now we re sharing an all-new story of betrayal.
4
SPEAKER_06
Stacey thought she had the perfect husband.
4
SPEAKER_06
Doctor, father, family man.
4
SPEAKER_06
It was the perfect cover for Justin Rutherford to hide behind.
4
SPEAKER_07
They led me into the house, and I mean, it was like a movie.
4
SPEAKER_07
He was sitting at our kitchen table.
4
SPEAKER_07
The cops were guarding him.
4
SPEAKER_06
Stacey learned how far her husband would go to save himself.
4
SPEAKER_07
I slept with a loaded gun next to my bed.
4
SPEAKER_00
He did not just say, I wish he was dead.
4
SPEAKER_00
He actually gave details and explained different scenarios on how to kill him.
4
SPEAKER_07
He, to me, is scarier than Jeffrey Dahmer.
4
SPEAKER_06
Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
4
SPEAKER_03
Alright, so now we re in the modern days and we re not taking scalpels to the frenulum any longer because they realize that it s not a physical affliction of the tongue.
4
SPEAKER_03
It s somewhere inside the brain, most likely.
4
SPEAKER_03
And they have a lot of recommendations for when a child starts to stutter and it sticks.
4
SPEAKER_03
And you found some other tips too, which are great for parents.
4
SPEAKER_03
And kind of one of the main ones is,
4
SPEAKER_03
is give your kid plenty of room to talk, plenty of time to talk, make sure they express themselves fully, because one of the side effects of having a stutter is your child may just end up retreating and being super quiet.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I got from these tips for parents that there s kind of this maybe not fully spoken idea that you can actually cement your child s stutter if you handle it poorly when they start to develop it.
4
SPEAKER_02
Which, knowing that, just makes you even more tense about dealing with it correctly, I would guess, which could make the whole process even
4
SPEAKER_02
even harder, but there are some pretty brainless things to do.
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This one almost killed me when I saw it, Chuck.
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The site, I think Kids Health is where I got this one, but it said, maintain natural eye contact with your child.
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Try not to look away or show signs of being upset.
4
SPEAKER_02
Get like, just break the arrow off in my heart.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s pretty sad.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like, don t look away in disgust when your child is stuttering, you monster.
4
SPEAKER_02
Go look in the mirror.
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And take a bamboo shoot and put it underneath your fingernail and think about what you ve done.
4
SPEAKER_03
Another good one is, and this feels like something that would be easy to do because it seems well-intentioned to say like, you know, slow down, son, take your time, take a deep breath.
4
SPEAKER_03
They say to not do that.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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Because, you know, might make things worse.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, because what you re doing then is you re drawing attention to the idea that your child is not speaking correctly and rather than just apparently letting them communicate at their own pace, right?
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
There s also seems to be a suggestion that
4
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The child has learned, the child, your kid has learned to speak, to stutter because they re trying to get too much out at once.
4
SPEAKER_02
And they may have picked that up from you.
4
SPEAKER_02
If you have like a rush, rush, rush pace in your household, one of the things that they suggest is to just kind of slow things down at home.
4
SPEAKER_02
In addition to like schedule wise and like just taking time and just like letting everybody breathe, maybe a little more than you guys are, also speaking more slowly, not just to your kid, but also to other people when your kid s around.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
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Speaking slowly, setting an example, it s called modeling your own speech, so that your kid feels like they don t have to blurt everything out at once to get their point across.
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They re going to be heard no matter how long it takes.
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SPEAKER_02
You re going to sit there and just listen to them speak.
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Yeah, and like really listen.
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SPEAKER_03
Another thing that seems like a no-brainer, but really just try and focus on
4
SPEAKER_03
on what they re saying and not the fact that they re stuttering those words out.
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SPEAKER_03
But, you know, when your kid tells you a story about something that happened at school, don t concentrate or even bring attention to the fact that it s being said with a stutter, but just take in their story.
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SPEAKER_03
And if it takes a little while longer, then just respond accordingly.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and in that same vein, don t tell your kid to stop and start over when they start stuttering.
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SPEAKER_02
They have to get the sentence just perfect or else you re not going to hear them out.
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SPEAKER_02
And don t tell them to think before speaking.
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That s not helping anything at all.
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Be honest.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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Don t try and...
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mask it and say that, oh, well, you don t have a stutter.
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SPEAKER_03
Like, this is just, you know, you re just in a hurry or something.
4
SPEAKER_03
Like, they just say to be really honest and say, you know what, you have a stutter and it s a disfluence and it s nothing to worry about.
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SPEAKER_03
And if you d like, maybe we can talk to someone that can do some exercises with you.
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SPEAKER_03
And, you know, just like, all this sounds like no brainer, not being a monster parent.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but again, some of it does, it s like telling your kid, like, okay, slow down, take a breath.
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SPEAKER_02
Now, what are you saying?
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SPEAKER_02
Like, you think you re helping your kid.
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SPEAKER_02
You re not.
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SPEAKER_02
Right.
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SPEAKER_02
So, some of it is monstrosity.
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Others is just like, this is what people would naturally do.
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SPEAKER_02
But it s, and it seems intuitive, but you re wrong.
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Your intuition s dead wrong.
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SPEAKER_02
Just let your kid talk and listen to what they re saying, not how they re saying it.
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SPEAKER_02
And apparently, this is a good, these are good, this is good advice.
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SPEAKER_02
Wow, that took me a second to get out.
4
SPEAKER_02
Thank you, though, Chuck, for patiently hearing it.
4
SPEAKER_02
Sure.
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SPEAKER_02
This is good advice to helping your kid just naturally shed the stutter, the developmental stutter, we should say.
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SPEAKER_02
All of this we ve been talking about is dealing with a developmental stutter, although a lot of it just applies to people with adult stutters out in the real world as well.
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SPEAKER_02
Like, you can take just about all of this
4
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and apply it to a business conversation if you have a co-worker who has a stutter.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
Like, don t look away in disgust.
4
SPEAKER_02
There s good advice right there all throughout your life when you re watching or listening to somebody with a stutter.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, maybe don t do that at all unless you re a real jerk.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
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Life advice.
5
SPEAKER_00
But it s a good point, is if you re sitting there and you don t look like you re hurrying somebody with the stutter along, you re just engaged, you re into the conversation no matter how long it takes.
5
SPEAKER_00
I can t imagine how much that must help.
5
SPEAKER_00
And one thing that we didn t really, I think, point out that bears pointing out is that people who stutter,
5
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do not necessarily stutter in the same frequency throughout their day.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s definitely situations that are going to make the stutter way more pronounced.
5
SPEAKER_00
They re almost exclusively associated with higher anxiety situations.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think the National Stuttering Association says that the number one
5
SPEAKER_00
situation where a stutter is going to be about as bad as it gets is during a job interview.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so, employers, please don t think that this is how this person talks.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is probably as bad as their stutter gets, however they re stuttering in the job interview.
5
SPEAKER_00
So, if they re, say, at home, and they re just talking to their wife or their kid or something, the stutter s probably going to be far less pronounced than it would be if they were having to give a speech at their friend s wedding, you know?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and I found that with this person, Emily and I know that it can vary a lot within a conversation.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s a very severe stutter, and then they will say like a couple of sentences straight through with nothing.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then I think, oh man, it catches me off guard because I m so used to the stutter.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think, well, you know, that s super interesting to me.
5
SPEAKER_01
You just like,
5
SPEAKER_01
blurted out a couple of two or three long sentences with zero stutter or stammer.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s the same thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
I know, but they re fun to say together, aren t they?
5
SPEAKER_01
They are.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_01
I just find it really fascinating.
5
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you know, speech pathology can come a long way.
5
SPEAKER_01
I know that there are, uh, it, well, it s funny.
5
SPEAKER_01
I looked online about curing stuttering and of course there is no like patented cure, but Tony Robbins, after listening to our recording, our motivational speaker thing, I saw a video, I didn t even watch it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I just saw the title.
5
SPEAKER_01
It said, Tony Robbins cures a man of a stutter in seven minutes.
5
SPEAKER_01
So I was like, Oh, come on.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I didn t see anything that said stuttering cures.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s basically none.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I didn t have time to look into this new device, though.
5
SPEAKER_01
Did you?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, a little bit.
5
SPEAKER_00
It seems pretty untested as far as real-world application goes, but it makes sense intuitively, and apparently it does help in a clinical setting.
5
SPEAKER_01
So basically it s like a hearing aid, but it changes the person who s speaking s voice?
5
SPEAKER_01
A little bit.
5
SPEAKER_01
Does it replay it out loud for everybody?
5
SPEAKER_00
No, just for the person in their ear, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Because one of the ways that somebody who stutters will be able to talk perfectly well is speaking in unison or singing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so like you you can be sitting there talking to somebody just one-on-one and your stutter could be quite severe but then if you and the person agree to sing together, you may not stutter at all the whole time you re singing and I I have no no one has any idea why that s the case they just know and this device is based on that that when we re talking in unison and
5
SPEAKER_00
or someone who has a stutter is talking in unison with somebody else, their stutter tends to go away.
5
SPEAKER_00
So what this does is it creates an echo.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s a bit of a lag with their own voice, so they feel like they re talking in unison with themselves.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it helps the stutter, again, at least in a clinical setting.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if it would just be too distracting in a conversation or what, but I got the impression that they haven t tested it fully or proven it fully outside of the lab.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, the singing makes sense because remember Mel Tillis?
5
SPEAKER_01
The name sounds familiar.
5
SPEAKER_01
He was a country singer who had a really pronounced stutter, kind of around like the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
5
SPEAKER_01
70s is when he was biggest, but yeah, but you know, he was on like Heehaw and stuff, Grand Ole Opry, Something Like a Bird, and then had a tough stutter when he was talking to the audience, and that s what he was known for.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was like, you know, obviously it was an act, but... It was his shtick.
5
SPEAKER_00
Speaking of, so another famous stutterer, Chuck, are we there?
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Porky Pig.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I was looking up Porky Pig, right, because that s an unusual choice to have a cartoon character who stutters.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it turns out that Porky Pig has a stutter because the guy who originally did Porky Pig, Joe Dougherty, had a stutter in real life.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, really?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, pretty sweet, huh?
5
SPEAKER_00
Pretty heartwarming.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, wait, there s more.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
He did Porky Pig for the first two years and then they fired him because he kept missing the cues because of his stutter.
5
SPEAKER_00
And they brought in a guy who didn t have a stutter to do Porky Pig from that point on.
5
SPEAKER_01
But he did it with a stutter.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because it was established.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, that s cruddy.
5
SPEAKER_00
And that s sad.
5
SPEAKER_01
That is sad.
5
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Except Porky Pig s trick was to go to a different word.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Which is a fairly common technique, though.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I imagine so.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like if you get hung up on something, just say something else that means the same thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s a good one.
5
SPEAKER_00
Or I think people will say, oh, I can t remember.
5
SPEAKER_00
And just act like they can t remember the word when they know full well what word they re going for.
5
SPEAKER_00
They just can t, they can t say it.
5
SPEAKER_00
So they just pretend like they couldn t, or they forgot what they were talking about.
5
SPEAKER_01
Should we name off some of these other famous stutterers?
5
SPEAKER_01
Because I think if you re an adult stutterer, you probably know these people.
5
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
5
SPEAKER_01
You may have looked it up to feel a kinship.
5
SPEAKER_01
But maybe if you re a little kid out there, it might make you feel better to know that Darth Vader himself, James Earl Jones, was a stutterer.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, big time.
5
SPEAKER_01
Emily Blunt?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
5
SPEAKER_01
She s terrific.
5
SPEAKER_00
Mm-hmm.
5
SPEAKER_01
Samuel Jackson?
5
SPEAKER_01
Surprising right there.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, because the F-bombs flow from his mouth like he was born with that talent.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_01
Who else from Pulp Fiction?
5
SPEAKER_01
Harvey Keitel?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
I can t see Harvey Keitel stuttering.
5
SPEAKER_01
No.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I guess all of these people just went through speech therapy, huh?
5
SPEAKER_00
I would guess so, or else they all took mushrooms.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because it doesn t say whether or not they were like stuttered as a child or when they overcame it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
But Nicole Kidman.
5
SPEAKER_01
Albert Einstein.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, really?
5
SPEAKER_01
Carly Simon.
5
SPEAKER_00
And you said Winston Churchill earlier, too.
5
SPEAKER_00
He had a stutter as well.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Bruce Willis.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s surprising too.
5
SPEAKER_00
Shaq?
5
SPEAKER_00
I could see, I think I ve actually seen Shaq stutter before on TV.
5
SPEAKER_01
Really?
5
SPEAKER_00
Mm-hmm.
5
SPEAKER_01
Let s see, Bill Walton, Tiger Woods, Charles Darwin, Jane Seymour, Dr. Quinn herself.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Joe Biden, who will hopefully run for president.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_01
He overcame his stutter.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, all of them did.
5
SPEAKER_00
Which is great.
5
SPEAKER_00
But at the same time, there are people out there who have accepted that they have a stutter.
5
SPEAKER_00
They probably spent a lot of time and money trying to get rid of it, and it hasn t gone anywhere.
5
SPEAKER_00
So they ve kind of embraced it.
5
SPEAKER_00
So, I mean, if you ve gotten rid of your stutter and you ve overcome it, that s great.
5
SPEAKER_00
But if you ve also embraced it, good for you as well.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh boy, how about this one?
5
SPEAKER_01
You want to talk about overcoming a stutter?
5
SPEAKER_00
Uh-huh.
5
SPEAKER_01
Kendrick Lamar.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah, wow.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you can overcome a stutter and then become Kendrick Lamar, then that should be a shining example, people, that you can do anything.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Or if you embrace your stutter, good for you as well.
5
SPEAKER_01
Agreed.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because you could be Mel Tillis, who is the Kendrick Lamar of country music.
5
SPEAKER_01
Or Porky Pig.
5
SPEAKER_01
The Kendrick Lamar of cartoon.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s right.
5
SPEAKER_00
You got anything else about stuttering?
5
SPEAKER_01
I got nothing else.
5
SPEAKER_01
We d love to hear from people, though, huh?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, for sure.
5
SPEAKER_00
Get in touch with us.
5
SPEAKER_00
And in the meantime, you can find more stuff about stuttering, including a lot of support and resources for parents.
5
SPEAKER_00
all over the web and there s things like say.org and the National Stuttering Association and all sorts of great resources if you are looking for some information.
5
SPEAKER_00
And since I said uh, it s time for listener mail.
5
SPEAKER_01
All right, I ll call this Coming to see you in Chicago, but by this point will be I went to see you in Chicago.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right and was disappointed.
5
SPEAKER_01
Hey guys, want to write in and say what a great show I just saw.
5
SPEAKER_01
No.
5
SPEAKER_01
I want to write and say thank you for putting together a really great podcast.
5
SPEAKER_01
Long time listener and fan.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I even mentioned you in my work bio.
5
SPEAKER_01
I checked it out and she did.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s awesome.
5
SPEAKER_01
I really appreciate that stuff you should know is informative, funny.
6
SPEAKER_07
and family-friendly all at the same time.
6
SPEAKER_07
This was especially valuable when my fiancé and I took his 10-year-old brother on a road trip from Chicago to Wisconsin Dells.
6
SPEAKER_07
In the car, we listened to a playlist of SYSK episodes that I put together to suit his 10-year-old taste.
6
SPEAKER_07
How spiders work, how ice cream works, and most importantly, because we were going to Wisconsin Dells, self-proclaimed waterpark capital of the world, how water slides work.
6
SPEAKER_07
Nice.
6
SPEAKER_07
Which oddly is one of our highest performing shows ever.
6
SPEAKER_07
People love water slides, man.
6
SPEAKER_07
They love hearing about them.
6
SPEAKER_07
They love looking at pictures of them.
6
SPEAKER_07
It got shared or something.
6
SPEAKER_07
It was so weird.
6
SPEAKER_07
I can t remember, but I went to look at our download numbers one time and I was like... Water slides is the tops, huh?
6
SPEAKER_06
Higher than marijuana?
6
SPEAKER_07
Well...
6
SPEAKER_06
Higher than marijuana.
6
SPEAKER_06
Hilarious.
6
SPEAKER_07
Those episodes really entertained him and introduced him to the concept of podcasts for the very first time.
6
SPEAKER_07
Thanks for everything you do.
6
SPEAKER_07
And she said they re going to see the fiancé and Mara or Mara are going to see the Chicago show.
6
SPEAKER_07
So I hope you have a good time.
6
SPEAKER_06
Yeah, and thank you very much for supporting us in our live shows.
6
SPEAKER_06
We appreciate that tremendously.
6
SPEAKER_06
For sure.
6
SPEAKER_06
If you want to get in touch with us like Mara did, or Mara, we re going to go with Mara.
6
SPEAKER_06
You can send us all an email, including Noel and including Jerry and Frank the Chair, to stuffpodcastathowstuffworks.com.
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SPEAKER_06
And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.
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Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
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For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Guess what, Will?
6
SPEAKER_04
What s that, Mango?
6
SPEAKER_04
I ve been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we ve done over 250 episodes, we don t really talk about murders or cults.
6
SPEAKER_05
I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
6
SPEAKER_05
We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
6
SPEAKER_05
And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
6
SPEAKER_05
So what you re saying is everyone should be listening.
6
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Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
6
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I m Diosa.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I m Mala.
6
SPEAKER_01
We are the creators of Locatora Radio, a radiophonic novela, which is a fancy way of saying a podcast.
6
SPEAKER_02
Welcome to Locatora Radio season nine.
6
SPEAKER_01
Love at first listen.
6
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This season, we re falling in love with podcasting all over again.
6
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With new segments, correspondence and a new sound.
6
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Listen to Locatora Radio as part of the My Cultura podcast network.
6
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Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
6
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As important as choosing the right destination when traveling, is choosing the right travel partner.
6
SPEAKER_05
Gene!
6
SPEAKER_05
Gene Fodor!
6
SPEAKER_05
Gene!
6
SPEAKER_03
But be careful, because the worst trips result when two partners have two different agendas.
6
SPEAKER_03
The CIA really need your help, Gene.
6
SPEAKER_03
Freeze, Americano!
6
SPEAKER_04
Gene!
6
SPEAKER_04
Run!
6
SPEAKER_05
Listen to Fodor s Guide to Espionage on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.