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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we channel our inner Deepak Chopra, Bill shares his unsuccessful experiences hunting for an online guru, and we examine the concept of motivation and what professional salespeople should do about it.
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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast.
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I m one of your hosts, Bill Kasky.
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I m the other host, Brian Neal.
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And before we get into today s show, a reminder that today s podcast is brought to you by Pandadoc.
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Need help creating beautiful sales proposals?
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Visit pandadoc.com to download your free copy of Elements of a Winning Sales Proposal.
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And also our friends at Outreach.
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If you want to make your team a revenue driving machine, outreach.io slash ASP to learn more about them.
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Brian, have you ever signed up or sought out the wisdom of an expert?
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I have.
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And hopefully, this is not what people see when they reach out to you or I for this, but I was looking for a copywriting course.
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And I went on to, what s the, it s like, God.
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Fiverr?
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Creative.
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Creative Live or something like that.
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And you can buy these courses for like $15, $20.
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And I needed some help in this copy that I was writing.
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And the guy that I found that had the most reviews and the highest reviews, he spelled copywriting C-O-P-Y-R-I-T-I-N-G.
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No way.
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he literally missed the W for writing.
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So I didn t know if it was a copywriting, like copyright, like a trademark, but I thought either way, the guy misspelled copywriting.
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You would think that that would be, somebody would proofread that.
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Well, he has a back end as a copywriter.
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He also has a proofreading business that he doesn t use himself.
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So here s another one then, just to make good matters worse.
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I saw a filmmaking course on the iPhone the other day.
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By a lady who is well known in the industry for doing great films and one of her it was like $39 and I thought you know, I m always looking for how do you build a better story?
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Not the technical stuff but more the story part.
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Yeah first bullet point hit me.
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She said we will teach you how to build your story arch and
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Oh, the arch.
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Not the arc.
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Not the arc.
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The arch.
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Is there such a thing as a story arch?
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Or am I old-fashioned?
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I only know it s a story arc.
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Yeah.
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But maybe that s what she meant.
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I don t know.
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The St.
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Louis arch?
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Maybe.
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I mean, I know it s the same kind of— Funny way.
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Same kind of shape, but I thought it was two things and I couldn t buy that either So I m still looking for a copier former father-in-law calls it the st.
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The st.
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Louis arc.
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I was only a funny little family bit The st.
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Louis the st.
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Louis arc
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Yeah, story arch.
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So go to a filmmaker s club some night on Meetup and say, what s the story arch on that?
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And see if you get laughed out of the room.
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But wait a minute, she told me that.
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We re going to learn today, kids, in a Bible study about Noah s arch.
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There were just one and a half of everything.
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We do.
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We do.
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Let s make fun of people.
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That s OK.
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All right, topic.
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Topic today, I had this.
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Brian and I always look at our current clients and some of the struggles they have and what we re working with them on in order to come up with ideas for this podcast.
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And one of the things I ve noticed over the years is that
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there is a lot of focus on discipline.
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And in this case, discipline, I would define as the accountability that sales professionals have to do the behavior.
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Are you disciplined?
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Do you get up at 5 a.m.
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and work out, and then have a smoothie, and then you plan your day?
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Do you have the discipline to do all that stuff?
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Usually, though, in this case, it s more discipline to make the calls.
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A discipline to do the things that you need to do to generate your pipeline, to generate new prospects, and all that.
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And I ve been thinking about that a lot lately.
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It s like, if I need to muster the discipline, if you need to infuse me with discipline to do what I know I need to do, something s off about that picture.
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Do you agree, or do you?
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I know you re a disciplined person for the most part.
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So I m just wondering, am I
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Am I weird to be looking at this and saying, is that really the problem?
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Not enough discipline?
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Or do we not love our jobs enough?
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Yeah, I don t think that s the problem at all.
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And I think it s such an obvious thing.
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Like we talked earlier when we were getting ready to talk about this topic.
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is that if you feel swollen and you want to lose weight, you know what to do.
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Everybody knows what to do.
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It s not a matter of how.
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You don t need to read another article.
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No, no.
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That says you should eat more fruits and vegetables, eat less fat, cut down on your sugar, sleep more.
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Wait a minute.
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Let me write this down.
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Hang on.
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What did that guy say?
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Rewind it.
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Honey, honey, get in here.
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These advanced selling podcast guys got some gold stuff here.
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Brilliant.
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I m supposed to eat broccoli instead of French fries?
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What?
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More vegetables?
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I thought less.
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Yeah, so that s not the problem.
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Because the problem is, it comes from the sales leadership as, we ve got to get more disciplined on our call activity.
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It s like, that s not the problem.
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You ve got to figure out why the people aren t doing what they know they re supposed to do.
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Correct.
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Like, I ve got a client where I know this is going on.
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Really talented salesperson.
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everything you d want in a salesperson and has missed call numbers for quite a long time to the point where got put on a little bit of a plan.
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Well, all of a sudden is leading the team in call numbers.
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So that s not a matter of not knowing what to do.
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No.
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There s something deeper there, which I think is the fun part to try to drill down on here and figure out for our listeners, what is it within you that might be causing you inhibition?
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What is it within you that s causing you to lack or slack off on sales behavior or follow through or pick one of them?
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Yeah.
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We talked also about the inhibitions to produce content, put it up on LinkedIn.
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There s a lot of things that fall into that category.
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Yeah, there s a lot of stuff.
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For sure.
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I actually had a chance to meet a guy named, you might know him, Mark Boyle.
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Oh, yeah.
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You met Mark Boyle?
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He was the voice of the Pacers.
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Oh, great.
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Where d you meet him?
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At a cigar bar about a week ago.
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Oh, great.
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And my friend of mine and I were there.
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And Mark came up to our table, started talking.
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And so the three of us sat down for three hours and talked.
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Wow.
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He is the voice of the Indiana Pacers.
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Yes.
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NBA basketball team.
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And he was talking about how he loves his job.
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And he s in his late 50s.
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And one of us said, how long are you going to do this?
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He s been at this 31 years with the Pacers.
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And he said, he goes, when I don t want to do it anymore.
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He says, when I go to the game and think, oh, God, we ve got another game tonight.
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He said, in 31 years, I ve never felt that way.
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I look forward to every game.
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And then I heard Kevin Harlan.
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You know Kevin Harlan.
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He s a broadcaster.
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He s done the Super Bowl.
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The masters he s done all sorts of great stuff and he said exactly the same thing on a podcast.
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I was listening to now They re both broadcasters.
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I don t know if that s just so happened I listened to both of those guys, but both of them said the exact same thing I can t wait to get to the to the ballpark.
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Yeah to the studio or to the gym.
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I just can t wait I can t imagine a job where I was Frustrated or like putting it off.
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Well, you know what?
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I maybe I can go in at 9 today.
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Yes
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And I thought, well, that s one example.
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I don t think Kevin and Mark need to muster the discipline to do anything.
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No.
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Because they love what they do.
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Correct.
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Yeah.
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That, to me, is that that s what s missing.
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So when we get tactical with this topic, if you re a sales leader, this is what you ve got to understand.
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If you re a salesperson, you ve got to tap into it both at different places, is that internal drive, the why behind the what.
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Like I can say the same thing about podcasting.
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I love this.
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I m in a coaching program with Dan Sullivan right now, and they do this thing called Unique Ability.
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And I didn t have this on there, and I do now.
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I love it.
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We re pretty good at it.
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It s fun.
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I love starting the week recording the podcast.
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It s great.
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Great vibes.
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I just love it.
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Never feels like a grind to me ever.
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And other things do.
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So maybe I wrote down here when you talked about the why behind the what.
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So let s say the what is sometimes I don t feel like doing the behavior, whatever that means.
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The behavior used to be just strictly cold calls.
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I don t think it s that anymore.
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I think it could be publishing, producing, could be networking, could be speaking, webinars, could be a lot of different things.
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I say that if you aren t excited and joyful about what you do, I think we have to dig deeper inside what we re doing to see if what we re doing is really right for us.
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And like, for example, I hate cold calls.
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I haven t made a cold call in years.
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I just don t enjoy them.
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I don t like them.
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So if I m going to build a business, I ve got to figure out another way to do it other than picking up the phone and calling people that don t want to talk to me.
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Yes, and I ve always felt that way so it doesn t mean you have to like every part of what you do But if you don t like it and don t want to do it Then you have to substitute something else for it that works either equally as well or maybe better.
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Yes And so part of that I think is just digging deeper and saying am I cut out do my virtues?
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Match the virtues required in this job And if they don t do I have some virtues or things I can work on to become better
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so that I can become a better performer at whatever I m doing.
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In this case, it would be sales.
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Yes.
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So I think there s an overused word here.
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You know what the overused word is?
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Passion.
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Passion s the overused word.
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And I don t feel that way.
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I don t feel this.
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The word passion does not describe what I think about podcasting.
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It doesn t describe what I think about football, refereeing football, either.
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And I do that.
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I think it s overused.
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I think what it is is there s a connection to something that
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for you feels so natural, you almost don t have to try.
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It feels so natural.
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It s not work.
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It just sort of happens.
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You and I have, with this podcast that we do here, there s not a lot of prep, and we just do it.
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It s a thing.
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It s just natural, whether you call that a gift.
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But it s not this passion feeling like I m burning, guttural feeling Monday to run in here and turn the mics on.
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No, but I would say you have a passion, but I think we would define passion probably similarly than someone who just obsesses and they work 24 hours a day and they re just flying all over the place doing.
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I don t think it s healthy, number one.
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And number two, I think you can be passionate about something without that.
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Yeah, totally.
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And I think we re passionate about our business, we re passionate about this, you re passionate about- Helping others, yeah, football.
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Appreciating, yeah.
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So before we go any further on this, I want to know a question.
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I want to know an answer from you.
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Are you skipping lunch every day just so you have time to complete all the calls, the emails, the texts, and other sales touches you need to build your sales pipeline?
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We re just talking about that.
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Outreach.io.
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is the leading sales engagement platform.
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It supports sales reps and their managers by making it simple to humanize and personalize communication at scale, automating the soul-sucking manual work and dramatically increasing the productivity and efficiency of all revenue-generating teams.
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You can check out more at outreach.io slash ASP, where you can download, get a copy of their free new book.
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You can also set up a time to chat with them and learn more about them.
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Outreach.io forward slash ASP.
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Love it.
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So there s another element, I think, that people don t want to, with this passion idea, people think, well, I want to do, they want to make their passion their thing.
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Unfortunately, if we did an objective assessment, they re actually not really good at it.
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And that s one thing I wonder about with salespeople sometimes, is that they want it for other reasons.
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They want freedom, flexibility.
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I m a people person, all that jazz.
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And yet inside there, for whatever reason, it s not a gift that they were given.
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It s not something that s maybe natural or easy to them and that sort of thing.
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But they ll say, this is my passion.
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You know what I mean?
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Like my passion is helping people or whatever it is.
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I think that s an interesting thing to look at.
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I think too many people try to do things like, my passion is public speaking.
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And then you watch them speak, and they re not very good.
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Do you tell them that?
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Well, yeah, that s what I mean.
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At some point, someone should.
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And they re probably good at some other things, but they re not that.
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What else are you passionate about, young Brian?
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What else?
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Chosen, you know?
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There s got to be something else.
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So that s a thing to look in the mirror, to your point earlier where you said, I chose the sales game for a certain reason.
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And I ve been an average performer, and I seem to struggle a lot and everything.
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And maybe at some point, you ve got to go, this is not your deal, man.
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You ve got to go do something else.
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Or.
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If you still like it, but aren t getting the results, then maybe it s a skill thing too.
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Maybe you need to go back to class or school or buy a book.
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Maybe you need to invest in yourself.
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I heard a quote the other day that said, if you really believe that you re
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work is important to your customers, then don t you owe it to them to bring your best work to the game every day?
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You deserve, if you really like what you do and believe that your work is important to clients, aren t you obligated to be the best you can be?
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And if you haven t read a book in 10 years, or you haven t listened to a podcast other than this one, or you haven t invested in yourself and bought courses or bought online or hired a coach, if you haven t done that, then I ve got to ask myself, how committed are you really to this?
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That s true, isn t it?
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So true.
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So, so true.
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And I think a lot of times we re not.
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We want the result.
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And like you said, Brian, sometimes they ll say, well, what drives you about this business?
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And people will say about their business, they ll say, well, I m here to support my family.
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I want my kid to go to college, a better college than I did.
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He went to IU.
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No, they want their kids to go to a better college.
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They want to have money for retirement.
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They want their spouse to be able to do whatever.
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And I always feel like, yeah, but that s the result.
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So you re going to work 40 hours a week.
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You re going to work 3,000 hours for 40 years, 120,000 hours.
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And you don t even like the job you have.
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You re only doing it for the money, basically.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And that s why people, I think, end up at 65 all hunched over and cancer ridden.
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And they haven t taken care of themselves because they haven t taken care of their mind.
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No, so true.
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So, so true.
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I wrote down lax purpose.
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I think that s something that if that s
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a thing that, and I m not someone, you say lacks purpose, and everyone thinks that it needs to be altruistic.
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And I don t think that s the case either.
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I think that s another confusing thing with this whole subject, is people think that I have to have some societal purpose for what I m doing.
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It s got to be for the greater good.
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And it doesn t.
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On the opposite of what Bill just said, some people literally have a purpose behind making money.
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And they just want to make money, because that s their thing.
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And they don t want to turn it off, because they love the chase and the hunt or whatever.
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And that s the scoreboard.
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And they don t give it away.
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They keep it themselves.
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And so it s a weird thing.
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I think sometimes we hear the word purpose.
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Well, you need to have a purpose-driven job.
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It doesn t have to be altruistic that way, though, is what I m saying.
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You need to be connected to it.
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That s what I believe.
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I think that s the key.
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You personally need to be connected to it.
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If it s only to make money, and I don t, like if I sell dental equipment, and I don t even, I don t really give a damn whether, I don t even see the difference between mine and somebody else s, it doesn t matter, I m just here to move dental equipment.
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Yeah, can you do it?
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But wouldn t it be better if you found something you really believed in and loved, and the purpose was to help that message get out into the hands of people who had money, they paid you money, then you can go to the charity or go to your home.
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Yeah, that s a tough one.
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So another one I had here was just be a student of yourself.
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We re always talking about being a student of your product, and your service, and your customer.
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But I think we have to become students of ourselves.
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Because you know what?
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If we don t do that, no one else does that.
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No one else is a student of you.
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Your pastor is not, your psychotherapist is not, your spouse is not, your kids don t care, your customers certainly don t, they care about you as a human, but they are not students of you.
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So we have to be.
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And part of that is really understanding, what is it that drives me?
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What do I love to do?
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What do I not like to do?
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Am I able to make a list of those things on both columns?
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I know Dan Sullivan always talks about, make a list of the things you hate to do and figure out a way not to do those.
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Doesn t mean they don t get done, just means you don t have to do them.
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Yeah, no doubt.
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So I think a student of yourself is, and I don t think we re ever taught how to do that.
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No.
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I mean, when a company brings you or I in, I think there s kind of an embedded notion there that we will figure out who we are so that when we re out learning new techniques and new strategies, we ll be able to execute them.
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Yeah, for sure.
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SPEAKER_01
But if you don t have that.
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SPEAKER_02
No.
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SPEAKER_02
done.
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SPEAKER_02
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And while you re there, download a free copy
1
SPEAKER_02
of elements of a winning sales proposal.
1
SPEAKER_02
Last one I had, because I think a lot of this stems from a place that people don t want to go, and that is the idea of inflated self-importance, that we want to feed ourselves and get what we want first before anything else.
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And so I think one of the tricks to this is to deflate
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your inflated self-importance, and to realize that this whole thing, a lot of these root causes of why people don t have motivation is, well, I don t want to work too hard, or they didn t give this to me, or I deserve this.
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A little bit of an entitlement thing there.
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And so work really hard to recognize that you re not entitled to anything at all.
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Like, not one thing.
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And you re very fortunate to be here when you look at the odds of things.
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I mean, you hear Warren Buffett talk about how he made most of his wealth.
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Most of it comes back to just absolute luck, the fact that he was A, born, because those odds are crazy, B, born in the United States, C, born a man, and D, born when he was born because of the things that have happened.
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Realize that it s not about you or us as as the center of the universe Unlike what Deepak Chopra would say who by the way if you re not following Deepak on Instagram He is just brilliant.
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You have to follow Deepak Chopra on Instagram for fun
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Do we have time for my quick story?
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SPEAKER_00
Do we have time for my quick story?
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, always.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, you told me this.
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SPEAKER_00
Did we talk about it on the air?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you said this one.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, OK.
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SPEAKER_00
You saw Deepak.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, no, no, no.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, different one.
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SPEAKER_00
Go ahead.
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I saw Deepak on stage with another guy.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, OK.
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SPEAKER_01
Did I tell you this one?
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SPEAKER_01
No, not this one.
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I was watching a video the other day, and Deepak Chopra, I know we talk about him.
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And I ve always liked him.
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I ve always read some of his stuff.
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Oh, he s great.
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Hilarious.
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And he was on stage with another guy named Sadhguru, who was an Indian mystic and yogi.
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And the panel facilitator said, well, Sadhguru and Deepak, why don t you each start with just three or four minutes on some of your philosophy for our group today?
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SPEAKER_01
And the guru started.
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And he is a very plain-spoken, non-educated, really wise guy.
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And he just laid it out in three minutes, very understandable.
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And then Deepak, it almost felt like Deepak had to one-up him.
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Deepak Chopra is a scientist.
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He s a doctor.
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He s a brilliant physicist.
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I mean, he s everything.
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But he went through this little three minute thing.
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And at the end, the lady looks at the crowd and said, did you all, which was kind of a shot, I didn t think that was really fair, but she goes, did you understand all that?
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SPEAKER_01
And everybody s like, no.
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SPEAKER_01
We re all dumb.
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SPEAKER_01
We re all stupid.
2
SPEAKER_01
Space in this class?
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SPEAKER_01
He started talking about non-local space.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, right.
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SPEAKER_01
When he started talking about that, he kind of had me feet tied around.
2
SPEAKER_01
So anyway, I hope you ve enjoyed today s podcast.
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SPEAKER_01
If you re interested in bringing Brian or I in,
2
SPEAKER_01
At some point this year, this is a good time to start thinking about summer and fall, sales retreat, sales meeting, sales kickoff, sales launch, sales meeting.
2
SPEAKER_01
We ll come out and see you physically or digitally.
2
SPEAKER_01
Either way is fine.
2
SPEAKER_01
Start the ball rolling by going to listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_01
Send us an email and we ll start things out.
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SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
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SPEAKER_01
Bye.