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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, Bill gets saved by a client with exceptional car battery knowledge, I give you a way to assess if you re a professional visitor, and we talk about the science of motivation.
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Welcome back to the Advance Selling Podcast.
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See how I got that in there.
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My name is Bill Kasky.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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And we come at you every Monday morning.
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And we are glad that you re a listener.
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And we do appreciate it.
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The only way this thing has grown like it has over the past few years is because of people like you.
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So we thank you for passing this on to your colleagues, and friends, and customers, and all that stuff.
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So thank you.
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We re on the road.
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If you d like us to come visit you, send us an email, listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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Put in the subject line, come see us.
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Bill just got back, I think, from a gig.
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And I m heading down for a gig here in a little bit to Hotlanta.
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Good.
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I ll be down there.
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So send us an email, listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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Great, great time.
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Good events, fun things to do.
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Yeah, we had a good time.
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We went up to South Bend here, Indiana, and spoke to a group.
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I don t know if I should say the name.
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Probably not.
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Brian, Troy, Amy, Terry, Eric, a whole bunch of really good people.
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We had a great time.
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And the funny thing is, I came out after the day was over, got in my car, or was getting into my car to head back to Indy, which is about a two and a half hour trip.
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And the battery was dead in my car.
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And so I m like, and everybody had left.
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Everybody left the building.
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It s because they were going to a minor league baseball game that night.
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It was a beautiful night.
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And so I m like, oh my gosh.
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There s no dealership with my car up there.
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So I went back in.
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And this very nice lady named Sarah, who was in the training,
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I said, hey, can you take me to CVS to get a battery?
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Because I thought it was the battery of my remote.
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Oh, the key fob, right.
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And she goes, yeah, let s go and take a look first.
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I was a Ford Motor Company engineer in a previous life.
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Well, she s only 29 years old, so a previous life.
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And she knew.
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I mean, she was awesome.
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She knew exactly.
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She goes, well, I ll tell you a problem.
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You left your lights on.
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I m like, no, I didn t, because my lights go off automatically.
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No, not when it s turned that way.
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Well, how did it get turned that way?
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So she was great, and we ended up getting back on the road, had to jump the car, and no problem since, but thanks, Sarah, for your help.
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That s a good story.
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It s great when you ask someone and they know what the hell they re doing.
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They don t just say, well, I don t know.
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It s also great when you re like, did you leave your lights on?
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Uh-uh.
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No, I didn t.
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Are you sure?
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Yeah, positive.
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They turn off automatically.
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That s one of these luxury cars, too.
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And there s just no they re trying to be nice not in the 2010 to 2013 five series.
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They don t okay So before we get into our topic today Brian we all know that century link is an awesome sponsor of our show and if you are looking to Restart your career with a company that is digitally transforming the world and century link and level three might be the ticket for you
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Take the first step, visit CenturyLink.com slash advanced selling and join the talent community.
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A member of their team will be in touch soon to discuss your future.
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Once again, CenturyLink.com forward slash advanced selling.
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Beautiful.
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Okay, topic today.
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We re going to talk about something we don t think we ve talked about on this show ever.
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Now we ve got, what are we at?
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600 episodes or something like that?
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Lots of episodes.
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So I bet someone could find a place where we did, but we don t think we did.
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Or maybe we ve just forgotten about it.
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We re on our 13th year.
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Like every 10 years you forget about what you did.
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Well, you do only forget about it three weeks ago.
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I m sure that somewhere nine years ago there was something.
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Well, we have a question.
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Do you want me to read the question?
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Sure.
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This came from Michael.
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He says, I enjoy your shows, and it gives me plenty of ideas to use with my sales team.
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And we get that a lot from sales leaders and sales managers, so that s good.
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Thank you.
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I d like to ask for your comments on sales incentives.
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Having tried annual awards, monthly recognition, and ad hoc recognition programs, I m interested in your thoughts.
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I found large annual awards motivate a few higher achievers, but can demotivate others.
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Monthly awards can become challenging as the same group of people can appear on a regular cycle.
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Ad-hoc awards may be like the wow factor.
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Have you seen something that works more broadly across the sales organization? 
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And the organization is spelled with an S, so I presume he s British.
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Or Canadian.
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Or Australian.
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Or Canadian.
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Or Canadian.
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Or better said, not American.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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Really good topic on motivation, something we don t know that we ve talked about.
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And there s some misconceptions, Bill and I believe, I think we believe, that there are some misconceptions in what motivates people and how to motivate salespeople.
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And we re also going to talk about a tool that Bill and I use here in a bit that we ve found to be super, super valuable to help you understand this better.
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What do you think the biggest
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mystery is to motivation.
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What s the biggest miss?
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I have misconception number one, in my opinion.
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Misconception number one is the assumption that all salespeople are motivated by money.
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Do you have that down?
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Money.
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Ta-da-da-da-da.
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See, we do that.
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And Travis is in the room, our crack producer Travis.
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He knows.
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We don t talk.
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We do this prep.
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We write it down.
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It s funny how that works.
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Yeah, every sales leader
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Even I think if they don t believe it, they think they re supposed to believe that all salespeople are motivated by money.
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And they re just not.
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I mean, we have with the tool that we use, we have statistical proof that they re not.
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But that to me is the number one misconception.
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If I just put a spiff out there, if I just put a contest, or if I just put the right comp plan in front of everybody, everybody s going to chase the dollar.
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I would propose that
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Being motivated by money, and we will talk about, you re never motivated by one thing.
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It s always many things.
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But I would suggest that that s almost a disadvantage in large ticket selling today.
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Because if the selling cycle is longer,
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You d better be motivated by things along the way than just by the end check that you re going to get.
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Always.
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So I think, in many ways, it can be harmful.
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Yes.
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And I think designing the whole process around that.
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So if you re a sales leader and you re listening to this, or if you re a salesperson and you think your sales leader needs to listen to this, you need to forward this episode to them.
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It s designing the whole thing around comp, I think, same deal, Bill.
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I think I m saying what you re saying is
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could be a real, real problem.
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Because then people will behave accordingly.
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Because all they have in front of them is a way to try to make money.
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And then they ll put that pressure on their prospects.
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And that s what I think causes people to shut down.
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And people can tell.
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It just is not a good thing.
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So here s a, if you are interested in this topic, and I would suggest to every leader who s listening, go to YouTube and search for Daniel Pink TED Talk.
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Daniel Pink, TED Talk.
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He s done several, but he did one on motivation.
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And it s really good.
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And Pink, I like him.
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He does a lot of stuff, but it s all data related.
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So it s not just his opinion.
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He s gone out, and he s done research, and he s bought research.
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And he s really good at this.
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And he will tell you that what we think about motivation is wrong.
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Almost everything we think about it is wrong.
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And so if you re interested in this topic, I would go search on Daniel Pink.
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He wrote a book called To Sell as Human.
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He s written several books on emotional intelligence, et cetera.
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TED Talk.
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I think his TED Talk is one of the top 20 of all time.
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It could be.
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I think the one you re talking about, the motivational one, I think it is.
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It could be, yeah.
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OK, so let s talk about what to do.
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So we re going to talk to both sets of listeners here.
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We re going to talk to the manager group, and we re going to talk to the salespeople group a little bit, talk about how to put this whole concept of motivation into your current world.
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And Bill and I use a tool, an assessment tool, to help us with this.
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And I ll speak for myself.
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And Bill, I think you would agree.
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All my clients have been through this.
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So it s kind of a mandatory thing to work with us.
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You go through this assessment.
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You take this assessment.
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It hones in on your core motivations.
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And there are 10 of these elements, I believe.
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We re going to talk about a couple of them today.
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But almost always, both the team members and the manager will tell you it s game changing, because they were completely surprised in some level by what results that they see.
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Or they thought a person was motivated by this, and really they re not at all, and they re motivated by that, and they did not see it.
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Once that s in place, you can design your compensation structure, not just your money compensation structure, but all the things you do from reward to recognition, things like that.
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almost down to the individual, which makes people stick around and love what they do and not turn over, which is a huge problem for salespeople.
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And we re going to offer, too, I think we ll mention this again.
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Bill and I will offer you, if you are interested in getting your sales team assessed for motivation to really see with science and data what motivates them, you send us an email, listeneradvancesellingpodcast.com, and put in the subject line feedback.
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Feedback and bill and I will get with you.
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We ll talk about the economics of that and how that process works All of our clients would say it s yeah.
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Yeah, I must do that s good well, so let s go through a handful of these areas and like Brian said there s nine or ten areas that deal with motivation and
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We ve got five here that we want to talk about, three that we want to be more specific about.
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And so as you re listening, if you re a sales professional listening and you ve never had a test like this administered or any kind of assessment, then just do a mental check here and say, OK, Bill says this.
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Am I really motivated by that?
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And sometimes you think you are and you aren t, vice versa.
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But just if nothing else, pay attention here for the next few minutes.
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Absolutely.
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So the five areas that we re going to talk about today that are basic human motivational areas.
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Number one is recognition.
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So I ll go through five and then we ll come back.
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Number one is recognition.
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That s that notion that you are recognized for your work.
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You re acknowledged and recognized.
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Number two is power, which means you have the power to create your own future.
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It doesn t mean you re the boss.
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It means that you want to have
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control over your own destiny.
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Number three is affiliation.
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You need to be a part of a team that really inspires you.
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Number four is commerce, which is money.
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And number five is security.
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Yeah, number five is security, which is how do you do with uncertainty?
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And do you really need everything in place?
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Or are you able to do
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do it with a lot of vagueness.
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I mean, are you OK with uncertainty, really, is the essence of that.
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So we re going to talk about a few.
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We re going to talk about, first off, recognition.
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And so why don t you give me your thoughts on how you think this fits into sales motivation.
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Yeah.
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And so this is a tool that we use that measures this and says, how motivated is someone by recognition?
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That s being seen as important.
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by other people, getting their name called up on a stage, put their name on a plaque, salesperson of the year, special parking spot, those sorts of things.
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That s recognition.
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This comes in the form both of formal, like I just mentioned.
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So we re going to have the salesperson of the month.
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We re going to have a plaque, take a picture, do that sort of thing.
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It comes informal, too, where there s recognition within the team.
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We ll say, Bill, great job on this month.
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You were salesperson of the month.
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Good job.
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And everybody claps.
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And that s the thing.
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This is something that you can ask, and I m going to give you a question.
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Managers, I m going to give you a question.
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You can talk about these things.
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You can ask an interview if you want to kind of back of the napkin this thing without assessing someone full on.
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You can say, OK, you have to pick one of these as your core motive.
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If you have a good month, would you want me to pay you?
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put your name up on a sign, and bring you up on stage, and have everybody clap for you, or give you a day off so you can take a trip somewhere, or something like that.
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You have to pick one.
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You can t pick any of the other two.
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You ll be amazed at how many people won t pick the money.
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They ll say, I really like getting recognized by my peers, and that sort of thing.
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So that s what you re listening for in this recognition thing, is you re saying, people are saying, I really like to be called out for being great when I am great.
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That s what recognition means.
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The only danger there, would you see a danger in someone feeling like, well, I better save money?
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Because I would, especially in an interview, I would say what I think he wants to hear, which you actually even said that that is a danger.
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That s a problem, yeah.
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So it s up to the interviewer to create that space.
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To make it OK.
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Yeah, and say, hey, we ve got a good way to do that.
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As you say, we ve got a sales team of 15.
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they all form, some of them all land in these categories.
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You know what I mean?
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We ve got a group that s high over here, a group high over here.
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I like that.
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Yeah, something like that.
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Gives them permission.
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Give them space to be in it.
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Here s one notion I had on recognition.
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Make sure you re not only recognizing the result, but you re recognizing the process on the way to the result.
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So if one of your people has an awesome month in terms of proposal writing, or they did something that was over and above, but they didn t get any business from it, still, recognize them.
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That s great.
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I listened to Bob Bowman, who was Michael Phelps s swim coach for 20 years, and he was talking on a podcast the other day, and the podcast host said, what s the one thing that people should take away from this interview about high performance and how to coach high performance?
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He goes, it s real easy.
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It s all about the process.
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It s never about the outcome.
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And yet, leaders, we tend to overemphasize the outcome because it s so visible and it s so black and white.
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So you leaders who are recognizing your people, make sure you recognize and process things, too.
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Yes.
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Also recognize when you re doing recognition, you can also take money from the bank
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in a bad way by putting someone down or highlighting something negatively that they ve done or stripping them of a title or a role or something like that.
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They will feel very, very unfulfilled if you call someone out in front of a group who s a high recognition type person.
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They do not like that.
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That s a whole nother.
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It is a whole nother podcast.
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Okay, number two is power.
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And as I said earlier, it s the idea that people who are motivated by power need to have a need to think about their lives as having destiny over the control over they want to be an architect of their own success.
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Yes.
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It also could mean though that like, for example, if you put a
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a sales professional in a territory that is not well-prospected yet.
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It s like a virgin territory.
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A person who is high power, you need a person who s high power in that territory.
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Because they want to control their own destiny.
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If it s a territory where everybody s already buying and there s really nothing to do, you don t want a high power person there because they re not really in control.
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Correct, yeah.
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And you ll see cues of this.
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If you have a high power person on your team, or if you are one, you ll notice yourself asking for places, asking for territories, or they ll want more commission availability.
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Or even sometimes, Bill said, power s not necessarily about being the boss.
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Sometimes it is about career pathing, though.
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It is.
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Or people say, hey, I want to see, I want to climb and go and do other things, and that sort of thing.
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They want to feel like they ve got control of it, not restricted.
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So rate yourself.
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If you believe that you re high in power,
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then the question you have to ask yourself is, am I in a position that allows me to exert that?
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And if your manager s always saying, oh no, Brian, you can t, don t you do any, you do exactly what I say, don t deviate at all from this plan, you may be in the wrong place.
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You may be.
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So you have to ask yourself these questions as we go through these.
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Am I that kind of person and is my situation congruent with that?
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No doubt.
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No doubt.
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OK, number three, affiliation.
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That s the idea that you are motivated by being on a team, around people, back and forth.
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Now, I know a lot of sales organizations, it can become very siloed.
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So you have a territory in the southern half of the country.
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I have one in the north.
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And in a way, we re kind of competing in some ways.
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If you re a sales leader who has a lot of high affiliate people, high affiliation people, make sure you involve them in each other s business.
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And maybe it s best practices.
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Maybe it s coming together to work on certain projects.
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But you ve got to figure out a way to help them affiliate with each other.
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Yes.
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The reason our clients love this process so much, both the managers and the team, it puts everyone underneath the heading of common language and common philosophy.
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So everyone knows these things.
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Once everyone knows him, you can govern yourself around the team that you have, and it s no longer opinion anymore.
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It s fact.
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So on the other side of this, on affiliation, if you have a team that is low affiliation, and you have half-day sales meetings every week, your team is going to be miserable, because they don t need and want to be together necessarily.
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And so you make quick teams.
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You don t call them all in.
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They don t have that need.
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And if they do, then you need to do that.
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So on the other side, if you have a high affiliation group,
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And you re not having group outings.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re going to feel disconnected.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they re all going to self-form on their own and that sort of thing and talk about you as the boss.
1
SPEAKER_01
So if you re sitting listening to this going, yeah, I really want our group to get together, and we just don t get together, you re probably high in affiliation.
1
SPEAKER_01
Probably a good thing to share with your boss.
1
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
Take the lead on doing that and getting it together.
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SPEAKER_01
It s a really good thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
So here s one thing culturally that is difficult, because a lot of sales professionals are high affiliation.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re verbal, they re enthusiastic, they re eager, and they re outgoing.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then we have a virtual sales force, and you have Phoenix, and you don t have anybody within 1,000 miles of you.
1
SPEAKER_00
We ve got 30 people around the country that do what you do.
1
SPEAKER_00
there s no affiliation for you.
1
SPEAKER_00
So if you re in a virtual sales community where everybody s out and about doing their own thing and you don t come together every night, you might have a little issue there.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if you re on the phone all day or squirreled away in a fluorescent light box trying to figure out how to, it will drive you crazy and it takes its toll too.
1
SPEAKER_00
My wife has, she has very high affiliation and she works from home.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she s on calls all day.
1
SPEAKER_00
But that s different than being in an office where you re touching.
1
SPEAKER_00
Correct.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you ll see.
1
SPEAKER_00
Touching each other.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s not good.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s sitting right next to each other, elbow to elbow.
1
SPEAKER_01
A call center.
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SPEAKER_01
It s a group chain.
1
SPEAKER_01
The other thing you ll see with affiliation is when it gets too strong, when the affiliation is too high, you ll have what I call the professional visitor.
1
SPEAKER_01
So that s the person who, in the morning, used to work with one of these.
1
SPEAKER_01
He would go cube to cube with his coffee mug.
1
SPEAKER_01
And he d be like, hey, Brian.
1
SPEAKER_01
How was the weekend?
1
SPEAKER_01
Good, Bob.
1
SPEAKER_01
How was yours?
1
SPEAKER_01
Good, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Did some things with the grandkids.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay, good.
1
SPEAKER_01
Thanks, Bob.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bob, then he d go to the next cube.
2
SPEAKER_00
Hey, Bill, how was your weekend?
2
SPEAKER_00
And then by the time 1130 came along, it was time for lunch.
2
SPEAKER_00
So he d round everybody up to go to lunch.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
So those are professional visitors.
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SPEAKER_00
All of you are laughing because you know who the professional visitors are in your office and you might be one.
2
SPEAKER_00
I probably was guilty of that.
2
SPEAKER_01
OK, number four, commerce.
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SPEAKER_01
This is the heavy hitter here.
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SPEAKER_01
It s the one that Brian and I said at the beginning of the podcast that a lot of times we just default to thinking that everybody s motivated by money or commerce.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re not.
2
SPEAKER_01
In fact, I think Hogan, the people who author this study that we re talking about in this assessment, talks about the, I don t know, the percentage of the highest performing salespeople that are motivated by money, and it s a lot lower than what you think.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is.
2
SPEAKER_01
than 50%.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it s I think it is.
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SPEAKER_00
I think it s just at 50.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I would say on my own clients, too.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s about right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have about half the clients who have commerce in a half to have category where it s a it s a high level need for them.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Most of them are in the middle or low.
2
SPEAKER_00
Very, very counterintuitive to what we think is sales leaders and salespeople.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
2
SPEAKER_01
So if you re a sales professional and you re maybe in the interview process, maybe you re looking for a new position, don t waltz in and talk about how motivated by money you are.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because the people who you re talking to may be onto you.
2
SPEAKER_01
They maybe understand more of this, how motivation is complex and it s never one thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
And motivated by money is not all it s cracked up to be.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it s great to have that be one of your many, but not the only one.
2
SPEAKER_00
This is one that I, when I self-assessed, was wrong.
2
SPEAKER_00
I had money really high for me.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s actually, there are three categories, have to have, nice to have, and take it or leave it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Money wound up just in the take it or leave it for me, which is the lowest, which surprised me.
2
SPEAKER_00
What I realized was there s another element that we weren t planning on talking today that I use money for to fuel.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s called hedonism.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like going on trips and things.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s why I want money.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so you ve got to be real clear on what all of us need money, but for why.
2
SPEAKER_00
Some people need it for security.
2
SPEAKER_00
Some need it for altruism, for giving back, or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
So these can tether together a little bit.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s oftentimes, like we said earlier, not money for the sake of money.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s good.
2
SPEAKER_00
Good.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the fifth and final one that we re going to talk about today, although Brian did mention a couple others.
2
SPEAKER_01
You kind of stopped me there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Secretly dropped those in, didn t I?
2
SPEAKER_01
He revealed a couple others.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sleuthy.
2
SPEAKER_01
The fifth one that we have here is security.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that is the motivation that everything has to be in place and secure and safe and traditional.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if, once again, if you re a, I ve had some CEOs hire leaders, and we typically put them through the paces here in this process.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you are a leader who has a lot of upside commission possibility, and you re a high security person, sometimes those do not fit.
2
SPEAKER_01
That does not fit.
2
SPEAKER_01
Or on the other hand, if you re low security, or you need, I m sorry, you need security, and the position is not a secure position, or there s a lot of upheaval inside the company, you ll find a misfit or a misconnect.
2
SPEAKER_01
Lots of things can happen in the security area.
2
SPEAKER_00
What have you seen?
2
SPEAKER_00
If you have high security people on your team, they will be most concerned with, is their job OK?
2
SPEAKER_00
And so whatever behavior they do or outcomes they get, you re paying attention to both of those.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re going to want to make sure, boss, am I OK?
2
SPEAKER_00
Am I OK?
2
SPEAKER_00
They need reassured by the boss a lot.
2
SPEAKER_00
Am I OK?
2
SPEAKER_00
Am I doing good?
2
SPEAKER_00
OK.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can I come back for another day sort of thing?
2
SPEAKER_00
And on the opposite side, if they start to feel the world move underneath them, they ll typically just make a move.
2
SPEAKER_00
They ll put a resume together because they get scared, and they want to solidify their thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so they ll go somewhere where they feel more secure.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, let s talk about how a person can get access to this really quickly.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because this is something Brian and I just hatched as we were doing the show notes or the pre-show stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
And we wanted to give sales leaders of teams a chance to get this, if you re interested.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s probably more of a team thing than it is an individual thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
It is, for sure.
2
SPEAKER_01
So how do you want to work at that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so the deal is, so if you re a sales manager and you d like to assess your team with statistics, not with opinions, on what motivates them, send us an email, listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com, put in the subject line feedback, and Bill or I will get in touch with you and talk to you about the process to do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you re a salesperson and you re thinking, I d love to do this, but I don t know if my manager will let us,
2
SPEAKER_00
Do the same thing, but introduce us to your manager then.
2
SPEAKER_00
So copy your manager on the email to listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_00
Put in the subject line feedback, and then we ll pick it up with your manager, your VP of sales, or that sort of thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because individually, it s nice to know, but it s not really possible to do 100,000 of these things, which I know if we opened the gates to everybody, we d have 100,000 phone calls.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it s just too much.
2
SPEAKER_01
So the way that they start the process is send us an email with the word feedback in the subject line to listener at Advanced Selling Podcast.
2
SPEAKER_01
One of us or somebody will get back with you with kind of the overview of how it works.
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s, again, our teams that work with us on an ongoing basis would tell you one of the best things they have ever done makes great, great
2
SPEAKER_00
It gives you a great chance to not just assess, but also to make tweaks to how you operate and that sort of thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Puts everyone on common ground, takes that turnover thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not negligible, takes it out, but you at least know now what s going on.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just a really great tool to use.
2
SPEAKER_01
So once again, you can send us any question that you have.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you have something that you re fuming about that s frustrating you, you can send us an email to listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_01
Prefer that you send us the voice memo, and then we ll get you on and send you a little gift in exchange for that.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you can also ask us a question via email, too.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that concludes this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.