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This is The Art of Charm.
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Learn everything you need to know to crush it in business, love, and life.
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The Art of Charm is where ordinary guys become extraordinary men.
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Welcome to the Art of Charm, I m Jordan Harbinger.
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The Art of Charm brings together the best thought leaders, teachers, and exceptional individuals to teach you how to be a top performer in life, love, and at work.
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Imagine having a mix of experienced mentors teaching you their expertise
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packing decades of research, testing, and tough lessons into a curriculum.
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We may not have all the answers, but we definitely have all the questions.
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Make sure to stay up to date with AOC and get some great stuff that we don t or can t share on the show by signing up at theartofcharm.com.
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We ll email you our fundamentals toolkit that covers topics like
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body language, nonverbal communication, attraction, dating, persuasion, business networking, public speaking, negotiation, and a whole lot more.
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I m also doing regular videos with drills and exercises to help you move forward every single week.
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We ve got our live programs in LA, and I want to encourage you to join us in our Social Capital Challenge at theartofcharm.com slash challenge.
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You can also text CHARMED to 33444.
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It s all about improving your social capital, inspiring more people to develop a personal and professional relationship with you.
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During the first four weeks, we re going to give away something special as well.
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Keep your eyes open for details.
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The challenge will get more difficult, so if you think it s easy, great.
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If you think it s hard, well, we ve got baby steps.
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It will make you a better networker and a better connector, and that s the whole idea there.
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If you want to have accountability, you can invite your friends to the artofcharm.com slash challenge, or have them text charmed to 33444 so they can join the challenge too.
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Today we re talking with Anise Cavanaugh.
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She helps unlock leadership potential, help people show up, and you know I hate words like energy and show up, and this is a great show that actually uses energy kind of every fifth word, and it makes sense that it s not offensive and woo woo.
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You can make it a drinking game if you re not driving.
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Anyway, we re gonna talk about why every single person in the company sets the culture, how you cannot escape yourself, how to set up your environment for success, and how to be
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quote-unquote intentional before entering a room and reboot your presence if that s something you need to do.
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I know it sounds a little woo-woo, but I promise you it s actionable.
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So here you go, enjoy this one with Denise Kavanaugh.
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Anyway, tell us what you do in one sentence.
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Basically, I help people show up.
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Basically, I help them create more impact with how they show up through their leadership, through their design, through whatever industry they re in, and I help them do it in a way that has them being as effective as possible without burning themselves out.
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Interesting.
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Where do we get started with it?
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Because that s cool and vague, right?
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I think an interesting place to start with it is just looking at
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you know, I would say 90% of the phone calls I get from people and from companies, they re coming because they want to shift their culture, they want to have more leadership impact, they want to create better results, you know, maybe their team is in what I call triage, you know, the team s not getting along, or maybe they re just looking to optimize and they want to build in more, you know, more of a culture of leadership and leadership skills.
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And when they re coming to me, they re often thinking that, you know, the company just needs
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some cool new initiative or needs some cool new set of leadership skills or some training.
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And so they ll say, you know, can you come in and do
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communication work with us or feedback training.
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And what I find with literally 90% of the people that contact me is that most of the times, it s not necessarily that they re lacking the skills, like the skills are important, the you know, the strategies important and all that good stuff.
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But what s even more important is the way that everyone s showing up, because they can have the best skills in the world.
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But if the energy that they bring to the table, you know, if they re coming from a place of exhaustion, if they re coming from a place of blame, or entitlement, or
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any kind of energy other than being intentionally in service of each other and wanting to contribute.
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It doesn t matter how many skills they have, they leave a huge amount of opportunity on the table.
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Right, this goes back to your, literally to the book title, Contagious Cultures Show Up, Set the Tone, and Intentionally Create an Organization that Thrives.
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that s almost like half the book right there.
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You just gotta flesh that out and we re good, right?
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Yeah, pretty much, pretty much.
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Yeah, I mean, it s funny with the book, you know, when we first started looking at the book, there s like over 50,000 books on, I m sure it s more than that by now, but last I heard, there s over like 50,000 books on culture and leadership, and the common belief is that the organization sets the culture, the leadership team, the owners of the company, that they re gonna set the culture,
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Ultimately, what I found is that it s every single person in the culture and the way that they come to the table that they re setting the culture.
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So it doesn t matter if they re the CEO or the janitor.
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you know, the energy that I bring into the room, I m constantly having an impact.
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So I can either be contributing to positive impact, or I can be detracting from it.
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And so, you know, contagious culture, we take an inside out approach where we look at, you know, what does it mean to be contagious?
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Why is this so important?
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You know, how do you set yourself up as a leader first?
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So how do we how do you set yourself up to make sure that you re using
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your energy and your presence and your intention really optimally, and then how do we apply that into your leadership skills?
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And now that we ve got you with good leadership skills and showing up well, now let s look at how that shows up with your team, and now let s look at how that can be built into a culture that you actually want to be a part of.
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And so it is a build.
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So why is this important?
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That s a dumb question, but that s okay, because some people are going, what?
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Yeah, no, Jordan, it is not a dumb question.
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I find, you know, with these words, you put these words, you put intention, energy and presence, we put intentional energetic presence together, and people automatically want to dismiss it as the soft stuff.
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And the reason why it s important is because
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we re having an impact all the time.
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It s like our energy and our presence is like food, coloring and water, you can t take it out.
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And so, again, you know, 90% of the time, if somebody is having a hard time creating impact or getting the results they want, or they re having a hard time in their relationships, it always comes back to something when the way that they re showing up or in the way that they re taking care of themselves, or just in the energy that they re putting out into the world.
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So the reason it s important is because if you want to have influence, and if you want to connect with other people,
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and you want to feel good while doing it, you need to pay attention to how you re showing up in the equation.
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That s interesting because when we had our pre-interview, I don t know if you remember this, but I remember saying, look, I don t like the words energy.
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I don t like the words presence.
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I don t like the words intention.
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It was basically everything that you just said.
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I was like, I don t like that.
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And the reason I don t like it is probably for the same reason that you don t like the way most people use it, which is because it means jack shit.
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When the, when you say it, when you re just like floating it out there because you don t know the answer to a question.
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or you re saying, oh, well, it s just a matter of just getting your energy right, or you just gotta set your intention behind it, or some other vague statement that says, oh, it basically sets people up to fail.
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Oh, well, you didn t get it right, so it didn t work because you didn t blah, blah, blah, energy.
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You know what I mean?
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But when you re using it correctly, it can be really positive and really amazing because you ve got
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like the food coloring and water, it makes perfect sense at its base level, if someone s got a terrible home life and everything is going wrong, it would be no surprise that you find that their work product or the people who work with them are suffering as a result.
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Well, and if you look at, I mean, we re the common denominator, so I don t know if you know those people in your life who are always like, oh gosh, I have the worst bosses, or I always date the worst guys or the worst girls,
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Like, you know, and there s this theme, there s this pattern, you know, or like, my friends always turn out to be jerks, or, you know, whatever it might be, or this job s always hard, or every time I move a company, like, there s a pattern.
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And the common denominator is us, we take ourselves everywhere we go.
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And so, to me, that is so liberating to look at, okay, if I m not creating the impact, if I m not getting the results that I want to get at home, at work, with my personal relationships, with my professional relationships, what s the common denominator, and I get to look at myself and go, aha, okay,
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there s something in the way that I m showing up either physically or mentally or, you know, yes, energetically, like the vibe that I m bringing into the room, there s something in that, that is getting in the way of me having better impact.
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And if I can get really honest with myself and look at what s happening for me, then all of a sudden, like, I m no longer a victim to all the people around me who are making my life so hard, I actually have a choice, I actually have a way that I can show up differently and do something about it.
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So if we re leading others, we re leading a business, we have a team, we got a boss, we got clients, we got a partner, we got spouse, we got kids, we got friends, and you want to have a positive impact on those people without burning yourself out because you re putting on a happy face all the time, fake one anyway, so that this stuff applies to you.
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this stuff totally applies to you.
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If you have friends or family or co workers or bosses or employees or dogs like anything, if you want to show up and if you want to create impact this stuff, it absolutely applies to you because you can t escape
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yourself.
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Yeah, that s interesting, you cannot escape yourself.
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You cannot escape yourself, and so if you look at, and your listeners can, they ll have access to a ton of tools, and there s a ton of stuff in the book, but if you look at the actual IEP model, which is the short name for Intentional Energetic Presence, if you look at it, we go through and break it down all the way from a person s, what I call their essential you, their core values, their purpose, their own space.
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We have our own personal space around us, and I think it s really useful to just think about
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you know, like even right now in this conversation, I ve got my own energetic space, you have your own space.
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And it s really easy to lose that space and to forget that if I take a pause, I actually do have space that I can kind of decide or not kind of I can decide how I want to interact with the rest of the world from my own space.
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Does that make sense?
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It kind of does, yeah.
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Can you laymanize that a little bit?
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Yeah, let me laymanize it.
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That s great, I love that word.
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Laymanize it.
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So basically, I have my space and you have your space, Jordan, and if I lose presence, okay, and if I get really overly involved with what s happening for you, or you re stressing me out, or maybe you re just being really chaotic right now, and if I forget my space, it s gonna be really easy for me to get lost in what s happening for you,
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and to let your energy kind of glom into my space, which can be really, really overwhelming.
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And that s where stress occurs for most people, like we lose our space, that s what s stressful.
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And it s most often because of external forces.
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So laminizing it, if I just remember that, hey, you know, I have my own bubble, I think about it as the bubble, I literally call it bubbling up in our programs.
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And with my executives, like, if I remember, I ve got my own bubble, and inside my bubble is my very own space.
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It s my energy, it s my most,
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creative essence, it s like, this is my space, then all of a sudden, I can remember that, ah, I m at choice with what of Jordan s I want to bring on, and what I don t and how do I want to interact with him?
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Or how do I want to interact with my kids, you know, the chaos, my boss, like all these different pieces.
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But it s remembering it s to me 70% of this work is around awareness.
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And it s remembering that, ah, I take a deep breath, I actually do have my own space.
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And I get to decide how I want to show up in this interaction.
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Yeah, I like that because I grew up when I was growing up my dad s great now So I don t want to get the impression that I m venting about him But he was kind of a tyrant, you know, and he would come home and the whole house would just clench up Mm-hmm, and I mean that in there almost like a literal sense, you know, it s stress level would go through the roof I would hear him come home and I would be like I m going in my room.
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I m shutting the door I don t want anything to do with that
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you know what storm coming down the hallway.
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And if he walked past my door and kept going, I was like, whew, all right, I m not in trouble for something arbitrary.
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And that s not a good way to live.
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It can be stressful.
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It s not a good way to work either.
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No, it s not.
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And we have that happen in, in our organizations, we have that happen all the time, like for, you know, family organs, like, when I talk about this work, I m talking about organizations and culture as a whole, not just your company culture, but your family culture, your friendship culture, like the crazy culture that lives in your head, you know, and so we have that.
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So a boss or a colleague or whoever, a team member walks into a room, and all of a sudden, you feel that room get careful.
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What we re talking about is that person s energy, we re talking about their presence.
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And we re talking about the tone that they re setting.
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And there s a rule in this work, which is that the lowest vibration will win, you know, so I don t know if you guys have ever been in a meeting where you got, you know, eight people, and six of them are doing great.
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And you guys are all jamming along.
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And there s just two people that are sitting on one side of the room that just seem completely devoted to taking the energy in that room.
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They re just you know, they re naysaying it their body postures like if
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you know, like, whatever, and it just feels like they re devoted to sinking that energy.
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Well, usually what happens is what
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You ve got two people that are just like low, low energy.
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What s gonna happen?
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Yeah, the whole group starts to go, well, we don t wanna run over these people, so let s chill, let s calm down, or see what s wrong with them.
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That s even worse.
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Right, right, let s check in.
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Oh, they re complaining.
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Okay, let s climb on to another complaint.
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And so a lot of times, that lowest vibration will win, and then people walk out of the meeting, and they re like, oh, see, meetings totally suck.
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They don t work, they re not very productive.
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And then they leave the meeting and then they go and they talk about how horrible it was.
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And then they gossip about and then they take it home with them.
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And then they ve lost that time.
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And so it s an expensive, it s expensive, besides the fact that it s exhausting and unproductive, it s also expensive.
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And so that lowest vibration will win unless
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other people in that room are good at holding their space and inviting those people to kind of step into a higher vibration.
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And there s different ways, I mean I m happy to talk to it, but there s different ways that you can invite those two people to step up.
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You know who knows this really well is our startups.
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Have you noticed that at all?
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They ve gotta move fast.
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Yeah, they re doing so much so quickly and they basically live together.
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I mean, if you ever go to a, especially one of those sort of stealth startup type deals where they haven t gotten their 10 bajillion dollars in funding and moved into an incubator somewhere else in Silicon Valley,
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you can walk in at one o clock, and I know this, because I have friends who ve got startups, and some of them were in my old building in SF, San Francisco.
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I would go down there, and I would see somebody there at one a.m., I d knock on the door, hey, is Jared here, or whatever, and man, there are people in there that, at all hours, and they are on top of each other.
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I mean, I ve seen the desk set up in there.
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You re basically, you re, they re exhaling, you re inhaling, literally, sometimes.
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And if somebody had onions for lunch, you know, the whole office knows it, right?
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And so if you ve got a bad apple in there or somebody on what you d call a low vibration, it s going to screw with every department in your whole company, which messes with your deadlines, which are things you can t miss because you ve got another three and a half minutes of payroll that you can provide and nothing further until your prototype gets out the door that has to work, you know, stuff like that.
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The stakes are really high.
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for some of these small companies and the people that are underpaid and the stress levels through the roof.
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So you ve got to have really resilient people who really want to be there and can handle that type of stress and still not go into the depths of complaining, whining, running the whole company down into the trench.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And I, I find that those smaller companies and startups that just the smaller companies in general, they can integrate this content so much quicker.
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And they can shift the tone so much faster, because for one of the reasons they don t have the luxury not to, they kind of it s do or die, like they re out there, they don t have the luxury not to do that versus a lot of times in a bigger organization gets a kind of hidden, it can get camouflaged a little bit better, because there s so many people and stuff gets so spread out, right?
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That negative energy, it operates a little bit more slowly, but it s so much heavier, it s a lot harder to shift.
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So how do we bring these people back up?
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We ve got the two complaining, or whatever you want to call it, low vibration folks in the meeting room.
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What do we do?
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Because my gut, and I put this in air quotes, leader is to say, what s the deal?
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Right, right.
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And that might be perfect.
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So if we take one step, that s like a little step back, and we ll come right back to it, because here s some things to be thinking about.
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So you ve got the essential you, which is in the center, which is your values, your purpose and your own space, right?
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Then on the next rung of the model is, you know, your actual energy and your presence.
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So
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when I look at people s energy and presence, I break it into four different quadrants.
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And the first quadrant, this is going to relate back to your question about how do we bring the vibe up.
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So the first quadrant is around their physical and environmental energy.
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So in that meeting, to begin with, you want to just notice, are you setting your team up for success with the environment that you re providing for them?
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So for example, if you re expecting your team to be highly functioning, then you re probably not going to be feeding them donuts first thing in the morning, you re probably not going to be feeding them a huge pasta meal, like for lunchtime, because they re going to go into that two o clock slump, like you want to really look at are you setting the environment up so that they re set up for success.
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So the food that they re eating the
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quality of the room that you guys are meeting in the light, like little things like that.
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So we can look at physical environmental energy, is it supporting your team?
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And is it supporting you as a leader?
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I have people all the time who will say, Gosh, you know, I want to have really great presence, I want to have a ton of energy.
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And I ll say, Okay, great.
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What d you have for lunch?
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And then they lead me through this.
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Yeah, pizza, I had a Twinkie for dessert, I had a 32 ounce soda.
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And so it s like, okay, your physical environment is not supporting your environment is not supporting your physical energy.
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So that s one place to just start being aware is for them individually, are they doing everything that they can to set themselves up physically and environmentally wise, so that they ve got the best energy possible.
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So that s one piece.
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Then the next thing we look at is their mental and emotional energy.
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And this is again, like, you know, we talked about complaints.
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So underneath every complaint is just simply an uncommunicated request.
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And underneath that request is a dream of some kind.
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So if you can
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you know, if you play with that, like, if you can start to look at if your team is in a negative state, or if you re in a negative state, and you ve got a complaint, or you ve got a lot of people coming to you with complaints, if you can look at that, and then go, Okay, I hear you.
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And what would you like instead, all of a sudden, you ve just released a ton of negative energy.
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And you ve pointed people towards doing something that s gonna be a lot more productive and move you towards a better solution.
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So that s kind of
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a preview to like, you look at those two people that have got the negative energy in your team, that can be one angle to get at, which is, you know, what s happening in the room here?
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What s not feeling good to you guys?
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Huh?
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What would you like instead?
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On Ways to Win podcast, Craig and Coach Cal use their on-court wisdom to solve your off-court problems.
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Whether it s trouble at home or a workplace dilemma, the coaches will help you find a winning formula for success.
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You ll hear from prominent athletes, business leaders, and celebrities who reveal insights that made them into the leaders they are today.
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And don t miss President Obama sharing how he deals with pressure by projecting confidence, believing in your team, and taking criticism.
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Listen to Ways to Win wherever you get your podcasts.
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All right, back to Anis Kavanagh.
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Because my gut is, you know, coming from kind of the authoritarian upbringing of my father is like, get over it, you know, which is not effective and has not been effective in the past.
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Well, in here, so here s the thing.
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So that might be absolutely appropriate, depending on what s happening with your team, and what you know, like what the background is on it.
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So part of the reason why I spend so much time working with people on the energy and presence place, and especially those first two quadrants, is because I want to make sure that they re as present and clean and clear as possible in their own leadership, so they can read what s happening in a room.
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So for example, if you as the leader walk into that room, Jordan, and you re, you know, you re in a pasta hangover, and you ve got brain fog, and
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you know, you re coming from a really complaining state, or you ve just had an argument with somebody else.
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And you come in and you go to lead that meeting, and then you see that you ve got two people who are really low vibe, right?
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And you re leading from that energy, and you go to call that out, it might not be the most effective way to lead versus if you re clean and clear, and you walk in, you re going to be able to know more easily what actually needs to happen in that room to start setting the tone in a different direction.
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So with that room, like, let s just take this, you know, there s like three ways I look at that room.
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So let s just say you and I are in that room.
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And we ve got the two guys over there in the corner.
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The first thing I m going to do as the leader of that meeting is I m just going to notice what the energy is, I m just going to notice what s happening.
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And so the first thing is just noticing it, then I m going to notice what is my own presence?
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Like, how am I showing up?
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So am I getting hooked into them?
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Am I getting agitated?
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Am I
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bringing in the energy of being annoyed, like just, I just want to be aware of it.
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Because I always want people to look at themselves first, when something s not working with their team, I always want us to look or with a relationship, I always want us to look at, well, how am I showing up first, just so I ve kind of got a foundation.
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And so I m going to notice, okay, what s the energy I m bringing into the room.
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And if my energy is clean, great.
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So I m going to hold that state.
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And I m going to continue to engage the team, as if the vibration of the room is that the energy of the room is perfectly fine.
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I m going to continue to engage that I m not going to sink in or get hooked into those two there in the corner.
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Now, sometimes those guys are going to start to shift their own state and they ll start to join me and we ll, you know, we ll start to build it up as a team and we ll be better and it s done and we don t have to worry about it anymore.
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Or maybe they are just completely devoted and that doesn t help.
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So my next step is going to be to just check in with the team.
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And I ll probably come from a state of curiosity where I say, Hey, guys, I m noticing that we seem to be jamming along, you know, with a lot of us in this room.
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But you know, George and Sally, what s happening for you guys?
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It s feeling like, like, what s happening?
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How are you guys doing?
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And I m going to actually, caringly point to them, and give them an opportunity to talk about what s happening now, nine times out of 10, just naming that they re a little bit off with the energy feels off in the room, nine times out of 10, that is a shifter in itself.
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And here s the thing is that there has to be permission for George and Sally to be in a off state.
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Because sometimes what will happen is George will go, you know what, Denise, actually, we re working on this project, I have a lot of reservations about this, I don t feel good about it.
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And here s why.
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And sometimes there s gold in that.
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So if I can create space as a team leader for that kind of permission for us to talk about, that can be really, really productive as well.
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Right, because of course a lot of people don t think that there s a right time to bring it up, or they don t want to be the one who brings it up.
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So they re doing a very non-confrontational communication, right, where, like you said, there s a communication they can t have.
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So instead of going, this is the worst idea ever and I have a ton of logical reasons why, they just go, I m going to be really quiet and not participate in this meeting.
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And it s subconscious, probably.
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Right, right, right.
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Or, or they re afraid or you know, whatever s good, like, we don t know what s going on.
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And so it shows up in a very passive aggressive way where everyone thinks they re just being snotty.
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And really, there might be wisdom if we can allow for a little bit of curiosity.
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So then if George says, you know, I don t like the way this is going, or I hate meetings, or, you know, gosh, and he s I don t like being in the room with all these people, or you know, whatever he says, then I m gonna go, Oh, that s really interesting.
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Well, what would you like instead?
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So I m going to give him back his, you know, power, so to speak, by asking, instead of sitting there in a complaining mode, to offer a request or suggestion to the rest of the team, so that we can get into a better, so we can start to move into a more productive direction.
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And here s the funny thing, like, and people listening to this, all of us have people who are coming to us with requests,
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and complaints and all this stuff.
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And all of us likely have complaints, right?
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So if you can get the person who s complaining to you, to just look underneath the complaint is what of what is the request that I have instead, or what s the suggestion I d like to make that right there, like that is so liberating, because all of a sudden, it s back on them to take ownership and accountability to start to create what they want.
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And it doesn t mean so George complains to me, it doesn t mean that I m taking his complaint.
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Now I m going to be like,
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fixing it.
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And I know now it s on me to completely change whatever it is.
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What it does mean is that I say, Huh, you know, George, what s the next thing you could do to make that happen?
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Or who could help you with that, you know, because it might not be me.
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But I share this with people, people go, Oh, well, if I turned every complaint or request with my people, I d be so busy, like I d have a whole new full time job, you know, solving people s requests.
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And the point is, it s like, that s not what we want to do, we actually want to give it back to your people to go and make that thing happen.
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or at least to open up the conversation so you guys can find something better together.
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How do we know if our presence or how we re showing up isn t quote-unquote intentional?
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I mean, what s our indicator?
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What if it s us?
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Yeah.
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Because we can always go, oh, that guy in the corner, what a jerk face.
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Right.
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But what if I m the jerk face?
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Which is, you know, probably happens more often than we like.
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We ve we re all that guy, we ve all been that guy from time to time, we all have that default presence, you know, the presence that we don t even realize, you know, the face, the default face, and the face that always looks like you re mad, and you re just thinking, or, you know, like, we all we ve all been that guy, that s in a room not intentional about how we re showing up.
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And
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you know, maybe it has impact, maybe it doesn t, it actually, I believe it always has impact, whether or not we get to hear that it has impact from people by feedback, that that to me is, you know, like, that doesn t always happen.
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But I think the first place to look toward is being intentional before you even go in the room about how do I want to show up?
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So before I go into any room, before I go into any meeting, before I go into any phone call before this phone call, or before this conversation, I m thinking, all right, you know, how am I showing up?
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How am I feeling?
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How s my physical energy right now?
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You know, what do I need to do to take care of myself?
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Oh, I need water.
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Oh, I need to go stretch real quick.
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Oh, I need to get outside and get some fresh air.
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So it s like I m looking at what s my physical state first before I even walk into a room or conversation.
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And then I m going to go in and I m gonna say, Okay, how do I want to actually show up?
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And even setting the intention of you know what I want to show up as curious, I want to show up as open, I want to show up as a contribution.
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I want my intention is I just want to be a contribution to this room, no matter what that means.
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So that might mean that I am completely silent.
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And I m just holding space in the room.
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And I don t need to say a word.
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Or it might be that I m, you know, guns blazing and offering all sorts of stuff.
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But it just setting that intention ahead of time, just that alone, I find helps people start to be more aware of their posture and what they re bringing into the room.
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Perfect, you basically, you set that intention to be conscious of it, right?
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To not just walk in on autopilot with all your worries and everything else.
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Yeah, I mean, if you take intention, energy, and presence, and you break those three words down, so intention is what I want to have happen.
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I m proclaiming this is what I want to have happen.
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It doesn t mean that it s always gonna happen, but I m gonna move towards it a lot more impactfully than I would if I didn t have the intention.
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The energy is,
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you know, I look at it in two ways.
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One is what is the energy I m bringing to the table?
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So how are people going to experience me?
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And the other one is, how am I taking care of myself?
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So I have a lot of energy like that actually is originally why I first got into this work was I was completely obsessed with how people took care of themselves and how that impacted their ability to create results in the world.
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So energy is, you know, how am I taking care of myself?
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And, you know, what s the energy I m bringing to the table, because I want to be responsible for that.
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And then presence, if you break it into that third part, presence, I look at presence is just not your stage presence, or, you know, presence and meditation or presence in this moment, I look at it super holistically in terms of, you know, how present are you to this moment?
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How present are you to your life right now?
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How present are you to the truth of what s happening in the organization or with the team dynamics?
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how present are you to the human being in front of you.
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I also look at it in terms of, you know, what s your executive presence.
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And presence is really interesting, because our presence is often what people say about us when we re not in the room.
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Like if you want to find out how people how you really show up, it s interesting to
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I m in feedback conversations with people all the time, or I ll be in executive conversations where they re talking about other executives, or they re talking about people s, you know, growth edges.
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And what they re talking about when that person is not in the room, they re talking about their presence, like people s experience of them.
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So if you ve got a leader in your company, or you are that leader in the company that you walk into the room, and the room starts to shut down your executive presence, it needs a little bit of work.
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Is this specific to Western culture, or are we talking about things that are rooted in biology, humanity in general?
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Personally, I find that this is specific to human beings.
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In the last 18 months, we ve taken this work to London, Singapore, Tokyo, and Shanghai.
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And we ve also had people who have flown in from other countries to do this work at my events.
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what I find is that so in the IP work, you know, I m a big fan of eye contact, and I m a huge hugger.
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And, you know, there s, there s all these different pieces that might be really culturally acceptable for Western culture that might be a little bit different in
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you know, in Japan, for example.
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So you know, it s a lot of eye contact, going up and attacking people with a hug that doesn t always land as well.
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However, Jordan, what I will say is that every single room that I ve been in every single group that I brought this work to every single person that has gotten in and done this work with each other as human beings.
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It s had value in their own specific ways.
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I m really careful to say like, this is exactly how you have to do it.
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And this is exactly how you have to do it.
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Because I find that
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I give people frameworks to think about.
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I give them just the simple awareness, no matter what their culture, that their presence and how they show up and the way that they think about their life, that has impact.
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And then they get to take it from there and they decide how they want to integrate.
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Right, you say in the book we talk about your presence is your impact and you said showing up before.
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What does that really mean, showing up?
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Yeah, I so I think about showing up in two ways.
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I think about it in terms of how I show up for the rest of the world.
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And for the people in my life, my kids, my friends, my family, my employees, like I think about in that way, like, how do I show up?
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Like, how do they experience me?
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Am I taking accountability?
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Am I leading?
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Am I, you know, leaning in with them?
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You know, so it s showing up for other people.
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But I also, sometimes even more, well, actually, even more importantly, think about it in terms of showing up for myself, and showing up for ourselves.
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So how do we show up for ourselves?
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What s our relationship with ourself?
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So are we, you know, are we kind to ourself?
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What s our self talk like?
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If I tell myself, you know, like, I have this thing where, you know, an exercise where we make a great, you know, making agreements with myself.
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So if I make an agreement with myself that I m going to honor my time today, or that I m going to hold a boundary around something or that I m going to get my exercise in or that you know what, I m actually not going to eat gluten because it doesn t make me feel good.
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Like if I make that agreement, do I honor it?
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And that s a way of showing up.
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And then if I don t honor that agreement,
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Am I at least kind to myself?
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And do I allow myself to get back on the wagon?
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Do you know what I mean?
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So it s it s showing up both ways.
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And what I the reason why I said that the showing up for ourselves is even more important, is because it s just like, you know, you re going down an airplane, and they say, put your oxygen mask on first, you know, before you help everyone around you, the more we can show up for ourselves and be really honest and truthful and have integrity with ourselves, right, then the easier it is for us to do that for other people.
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And the other thing is, the more I show up for myself, the less important it becomes that, you know, other people like me or respect me or whatever, because I ve got that relationship with myself that s very solid and grounded.
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And I can t control the way the rest of the world shows up for me.
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I just had an event last weekend.
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We do this exercise where people talk about what do they need to show up as their best.
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And it never fails 50% of the room says, I need to be valued, I need to be respected, I need to be listened to, they have all these externally driven things that they need in order to show up well.
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And then you know, other people will have, well, I need to go for a run, I need to eat really well, I need to do stuff that s internally motivated or internally focused.
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And you know, then of course, we all have a common, you know, some people have a combination.
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But the thing I always offer them is that if you re
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waiting for somebody else to respect you so that you can show up?
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Well, you might be waiting a really long time, you really don t have control over that.
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So instead, what you want to do is you want to look at, all right, how am I respecting myself?
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Like, what s my relationship with myself?
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How if I m if I m so focused on Jordan, respecting me, and I need Jordan to respect me so I can show up?
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Well,
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Like, I could be in a lot of trouble, but that s really externally focused.
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So instead, I want to look at, all right, and he s, how am I at respecting myself?
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What can I do to give myself more respect?
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Like, where are the things that I m like, where might I not be showing up for myself in that way?
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And then I always want to look at, okay, how am I actually respecting Jordan?
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Because a lot of times, if I m really needing that from somebody else, if I, you know, I ve got one finger pointed, you have got three fingers pointed back myself.
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And if I look
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at myself, sometimes there s gonna be a gap there, and I m actually just projecting my lack of respect on you.
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It s just bouncing back.
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All right, back to Inez Kavanaugh.
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What is this leadership trifecta of which you speak in the book as well?
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I mean, trifecta s a great word, so I m interested in anything that makes one.
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Alright, so here s what I started to notice a couple years ago, I noticed that there were leaders that were coming to me that were really great at creating impact and creating results.
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And this ties into why this is important that we talked about the very beginning, they come to me, they re super great, they d be like, and he s I ve got my MBA, I ve got my PhD, you know, I m, I m killing it, I m bringing in top numbers for the company.
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great at creating results, but then they d follow it with, but my marriage is falling apart.
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My people don t really like working for me.
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I, you know, I don t even know why, but some people think I m a jerk, or, you know, I m exhausted.
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Right?
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So they have impact down, and they re awesome at creating it, but it s at the expense of their own personal well being.
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Right?
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So that was one group of people, then I d have other people who d be really excited about this work, because they love intention, energy and presence, and they would be awesome at the self care.
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You know, so they re taking really good care of themselves, they re, you know, they re eating really well, they re getting their exercise, and they re doing all these things, people even like them, you know, they get along with people really well.
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But they were not very good at creating impact, they weren t very effective at getting stuff done.
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And so, you know, they actually needed more of the leadership skill side.
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And then there s a third group of people who were, let s see, they were great at creating impact.
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And they were great at creating self care.
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but they would leave dead bodies behind everywhere they went.
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So they d get the results, and they d take really good care of themselves, but people didn t like working for them.
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The people would feel smaller, they d feel like they weren t seen, they d feel, it s what I call dead bodies, like they d have a negative impact on those people.
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Yeah, I was gonna say, let s clarify that, because who are you working with?
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What is going on over there?
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You know, I was speaking a couple weeks ago, and I said that, and somebody came up to me afterwards, and they said, wait, somebody really left a dead body?
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What company was that?
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It s like, No, no, no, no, no, metaphorical, metaphorical.
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So dead body to me means that, you know, you shut people down the impact, the way that you show up your intentions for them, you disregard them.
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And so you might be killing it with your leadership style, like you can get stuff done.
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And, you know, all that great stuff.
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But the people that work for you, they don t love working for you, they re working for you, because they you re giving them a paycheck, because they have a job, and because they don t have any other choice.
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So that s the that s the lead
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dead bodies behind a perfect example.
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That is, I was at a conference years ago, as the inc conference, actually the 5000 that they do.
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And I was talking to a guy, and they were in the 200s.
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And the guy was like, Oh, my gosh, I would never spend a penny on the stuff that you do.
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Like, this is ridiculous.
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I can t believe you actually go in and work with people around how they show up and how they get along.
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And I said, Okay, that s cool.
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Like, what s your leadership style?
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And he goes, You know what,
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I throw phones at my people, he goes, I throw phones, I come into the room, I check the phone across the room, I yell at them, and they work harder.
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And we are on the ink list.
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I said, awesome.
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How do people like working for you is I don t really care.
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So the thing is, is that that guy, you know, I never saw them on the list.
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Again, I don t know what happened to the company, like, whatever.
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But the thing is, like for him,
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he s thinking that they re creating results.
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But the people I guarantee you, they re not loving working for him.
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And so that s an example of leaving dead bodies behind.
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So the leadership trifecta is you have to have all three, you have to have the ability to create impact, you know, really good leadership skills, you ve got to have the ability to take care of yourself, that s essential.
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And you have to have the ability to bring people with you.
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And so if you ve got those three, then you know, I find that everyone tends to be stronger.
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And you know, one or two of those,
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But it doesn t matter, if you get those three, or if you re at least working towards those three, in my mind, you re in great shape, because you ve got the awareness then, and then you re actually caring enough to do something about it.
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Right, that s interesting.
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People who lead like that probably don t realize that they re only taking the people that have no other choice but to work there, and everybody else leaves.
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Yeah, and the people that are working there, they re not giving their best creativity, they might be giving their body or their mind, you know, like, they might be giving the shell of their body to the job from nine to five, or whatever it might be, you know, they re probably not giving their best creativity, their best thinking, they re probably not going home and
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talking about how much they love that company.
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And so there are ripple effects, you know, it s so it s just the question for all of us is, am I leading in a way that s creating positive impact for people?
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Do I am I a contribution to people s lives that they enjoy working with me so that we can create even better results together?
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You know, and am I doing it in a way that also leaves plenty of me for myself when I go home at night with my family.
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I m not interested in a world where we create a ton of impact to do really, really great stuff.
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But we re all burning out.
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And our relationships are falling apart.
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And we re sick like that doesn t interest me.
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And I m also not interested in all of us taking really great care of ourselves and, you know, having really beautiful, awesome, fun lives.
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But we re not paying it forward and creating great impact in the world.
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I really believe like, we have to have both of them.
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And I think that they fuel each other.
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We all have friends that have worked for terrible companies, and we ve probably heard about it because the company s so terrible.
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In one area, if you re this kind of boss and you think, yeah, well, scoreboard.
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If you re this kind of boss, my friend Kim worked for this carpet company.
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And the leader was just like that, terrible guy.
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Everybody worked hard because they were always afraid of getting fired.
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And she was always looking for a way out.
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She would take days off and go interview elsewhere, so he lost that productivity.
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She didn t even want to bring ideas to him because she just thought, look, if I stay off his radar, the less likely I am to get in trouble.
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I don t wanna bring an initiative to him, then he makes it impossible for me to do, then I get in trouble for not doing it, forget about it, I m not doing it.
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Then they got acquired, and the boss was gloating around the office that they got acquired and his options were gonna be, you know, is that what he s gonna be worth?
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the board had him removed as a condition of the acquisition.
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They looked at how it worked, and they interviewed people that worked there in a completely confidential way, and I don t know how they do that, but they do that, and everyone was like, this guy s an evil guy, and I hate him, and I will quit the second I get another opportunity.
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And you hear that enough, and the board goes, oh, well, if we get rid of this guy, we re gonna see a big cultural shift in the company, we ll have a, you know, the thing will become more valuable, and that s what we re trying to buy, so get rid of him.
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So he ended up taking a buyout, which I m sure was not his ideal scenario, and he had to do that because otherwise he was going to get canned.
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And that s what he got for all of his hard work and slave driving.
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Yeah, that s so common.
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I mean, I cannot tell you how many times I ve gotten phone calls from people who are that are like that guy who think they re doing a great job.
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They think they re doing a really great job.
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And they re they start to realize like something happens, something happens, like they don t get a promotion, or they get fired like that guy, or, you know, their spouse, you know, threatens to leave more wants to go to therapy, or like, whatever, something happens.
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And all of a sudden, they go, Hmm,
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okay, something s not in alignment, like either everybody else is crazy, or there s something that I m doing that s not right.
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So a lot of times, that s why they ll come and they ll ask for a little bit of feedback on it.
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And the funny thing is, Jordan, like, it can be little things like little mindset tweaks, like with that guy, I mean, I don t know that guy, I can t speak for what was happening with that guy.
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But, you know, I had a guy who contacted me yesterday, and he, you know, he s CEO of his company.
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He s awesome.
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They re doing great stuff.
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And he s like, you know, I just don t understand why my team is not as energized about all this, as I want them to be.
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And I sat there listening to him.
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And I said, because your energy is so incredibly low, like, how are you doing?
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and he goes, I m completely exhausted.
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So he s bringing that energy, even though he s really proud of the company and he s excited about what they re doing, he s bringing the energy of exhaustion and burnout and then he s leading through that energy.
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Which sets the tone.
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Which totally sets the tone.
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So let s get into a little bit of practical stuff and leave everybody with some action steps.
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First of all, if we feel like, look, we re not showing up, we gotta set our presence straight before we walk into that room or before we go to work, how do we do that?
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How do we reboot?
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Great.
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Well, here s a quick thing is like one, so notice it for yourself, everybody listening to this, if you just give yourself an honest couple of minutes to just think about the results you re creating right now, and how you feel like you re showing up, you just give yourself that and look through that lens, you re going to get a lot of good information.
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If you feel like you re showing up beautifully, and you ve got nothing to work on, then, you know, it s two ways, you show you feel like you re showing up beautifully, and you ve got nothing to work on, then you might want to optimize.
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So optimization would be going and asking,
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some of the people around you, some of your peers, some of your direct reports, even people who don t aren t your biggest fans, ask them for feedback about your leadership presence.
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And if you could do one thing differently, either doing it or being it like in your presence or something that you re doing, what would that one thing be that would help bring you to the next level of leadership.
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So that s for people that listen to us.
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And they re like, Oh, no, I m showing up.
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Great.
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You know, I m totally great.
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Like go for optimization.
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If you think you re showing up great, but you re not getting the results you want, then there s something there missing.
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So that s the time to have a really good honest conversation with yourself and then also ask for that feedback.
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And if you re just very much self aware, and you know that you d like to show up even bigger, here s your presence reboot.
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And so the presence reboot is as simple as, you know, I noticed it s five steps.
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First step is I noticed my presence before I even go to walk, let s just take walking into a client meeting.
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Before I even walk into the client meeting, I m going to notice my presence.
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And I m going to check in with like my physical body, I m going to check with my mindset.
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And I m just going to notice like, how am I showing up?
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And I m gonna take a really deep breath the whole time, like you re always breathing, don t forget to breathe, people try and forget to breathe all the time when they do this.
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But I m just gonna know how am I going to how am I showing up?
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The next step, step two is to set an intention for how I want to show up when I walk in that room.
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How do I want to show up?
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So I m actually going to envision myself walking into that room and having the kind of presence I want.
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You know, so it might be that I noticed that my shoulders are back a little bit more, I m breathing, I m calmer, I m more present, can be really, really simple.
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So first step, how am I showing up?
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Second step, how do I want to show up, you know, and seeing the vision of it.
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The third step is to notice if there s anything I need to do to take care of myself.
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So I might need to go grab water, I might need to use the bathroom, I might need to change my mindset, you know, maybe I m walking in, and I ve just had a fight with someone, maybe I need to change my mindset to one of curiosity,
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about what I m stepping into, or into a mindset of gratitude or into a mindset of contribution, like I m going to have to do something to shift in order to show up differently.
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Right.
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So one, notice where you re at to notice where you want to be three, notice what you need, and do what you can to do to take care of it.
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And then the fourth thing is I m just going to step into this next level of presence.
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So I don t need to go meditate, I don t need to go hiking, I don t need to go take a sabbatical, I can choose in that moment to step into this new level of presence just I m just going to become it.
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So the visioning piece is really important, you know, like that step two is really important to vision it.
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And then step four, I m just going to become it.
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And step five is just rinse and repeat.
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I m rinsing and repeating throughout the rest of that meeting, I m just noticing like, when am I showing up?
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When am I checking out?
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When am I showing up?
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When am I checking out, and I m being kind throughout.
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So if I check out, or if I screw up in front of the client, it s not about going into this internal dialogue around beating myself up.
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It s about going, okay, great, that didn t go the way I want it to go.
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Now get present and get back in the room.
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Sorry, what was that?
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I wasn t paying attention.
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But that in itself is kind of like meditation or mindfulness, right?
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Just bringing yourself back constantly.
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Yeah, interesting.
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Yeah, I mean, you guys, you can do the five steps.
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Like I find the five steps really useful for training wheels, but I rarely do the five steps now.
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So what I ll do, so like, you know,
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training wheels to just kind of like take yourself through it.
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So where am I at?
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Where do I want to be?
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What do I need?
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you know, okay, great, step in, rinse and repeat.
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That s it, that happens really fast.
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Those are the training wheels.
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Or you just simply you walk into the room, you take a deep breath and go, Okay, I m here.
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And you re fully present.
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And you let your presence and your intuition guide how you need to show up and what you need to say in that room.
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The presence reboot we just did, that s something that you do, you know, moment to moment, second to second, you make it as hard or easy as you want to make it.
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But the five steps to intentional impact, that s another part of the IP method, which
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to me has been a game changer in terms of helping companies reduce their time and quantity of meetings.
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And you can use this for having a conversation with your kid or your spouse or your best friend or your CEO, it does not matter.
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So the five steps are first, you get really clear on the outcomes you want to create with that meeting.
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The second step is to get really clear on the emotional impact you want to create in that meeting.
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You know, what is how do you want people to feel?
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The third step is getting really clear about how you need to show up in order to create those outcomes and that impact.
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So what s your presence going to have to be?
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The fourth step is to look at what do you have to believe about those people or about that project?
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And the fifth step is what are you going to have to do?
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And all five steps are so important.
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They re there, we go deep into them in the book, I also your people can download from our site, if they go to just a nice cavanaugh.com, they can download a ton of free resources that actually take them through the five steps in the reboot and everything.
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But if they want to grab the book, the book will take them deep into everything from how you hire, you know, there s a chapter in there called hiring and firing for the energetic good of all, which I think is one of the trickiest things to do in terms of presence and intention.
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Yeah, I mean, there s a ton in there.
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So I would just tell them to grab that.
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Great, thank you so much.
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This has been really enlightening and very unusual, a radical departure because normally I just, I cannot stand vague woo-woo stuff.
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I almost find it offensive.
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But you ve done a really good job of backing up what you do with real data and real world results that you can apply and that everyone can try for that matter, which I love.
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Thank you for saying that, and thanks for having me on.
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I mean, I will, I mean, I ll leave you with this, Jordan.
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This work has now been done with thousands of people.
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We ve done it, you know, not in every single, not- At yoga retreats all over the world.
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All over.
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I mean, one of the things I can tell you is, like, it s been done in really big companies, it s been done in small companies, startups, and, you know, what s interesting is the amount of, there s an appetite for this, and even though it s woo-woo,
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So before 2009, I would sneak this in the door, I would Trojan horse it and I would sneak it in the door disguised in leadership development.
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And after 2009, I realized that was an absolute assault on the woo woo stuff, like it was a waste of people s time.
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Because if we could get
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the IEP work into their strategy sessions and their business results and how they were showing up together, we could save companies so much time.
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So my suggestion to people that are listening to this is, if this feels, you know, we will feel soft or whatever, you don t like the words, that s fine.
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The thing to be looking at is what of this conversation between Jordan, I can you take
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that can help you optimize the way that you show up just a little bit more so you can create even more impact in the world.
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And I promise you, there s something in this that you can take that somebody in your life is gonna be really happy you listen to, even if it s just yourself.
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Totally, forget the word energy, forget the word alignment, forget the word intention, just if you re in a crap mood,
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Don t walk into the meeting in a crap mood.
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Think about it consciously.
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Why are you in this way?
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And then try to reset it manually.
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That s really what we re talking about, except you phrased it more elegantly.
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Well, completely.
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And if you re in a crap mood, if you re in a crap mood, how are you contributing to that crap mood?
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And it s very possible that if you re not liking the way meetings are going, if you re not liking the results that your team is getting, it s so possible it s because of the way you re showing up.
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Because I have an entire column, I think you already know, put this in the show notes, but I have an entire column on inc.com called showing up.
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And there are so many different tools and resources I ve built into that column for people with real life examples of stuff that happens and how this has an impact, especially amongst executives, and especially with the audience of entrepreneurs.
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Thank you very much, Anise.
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We will link to your book and everything else that you have talked about today, including your Facebook page in our show notes.
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So if people want to go check that stuff out and they can buy it through Amazon or through your website.
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Thanks so much for your time.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I had fun with you.
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It s good.
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Good stuff.
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Jason, that was interesting.
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You know, normally she did a really good job of backing up her points because I was just waiting to pounce and be like, that s too woo woo and doesn t make any sense.
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And it totally made sense.
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No.
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Anytime somebody says energy, I expect you to pounce.
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So that was good.
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No, I mean, I was like.
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standing on my table right now, ready to knock it down, but she really did a good job, and I love it.
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You cannot escape yourself, and I love the reboot, because we ve all been kind of like, oh, I just got an email about this, and I m worried about that, and oh, did I turn the stove off?
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And then you walk into the room, and you ve got to suddenly kind of be a leader, give a performance or whatever, and you re just all over the place.
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I love the reboot.
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I feel like that s something I could have used and will use for sure, so I m a big fan of that.
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Anyway, show feedback and guest suggestions.
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The show s a fanarchy.
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It is run by you.
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We rely on you to help keep our finger on the pulse.
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So if you know someone who s a good fit for the show, let us know.
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Guests at theartofcharm.com.
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And if you enjoyed this, don t forget to thank Anise on Twitter.
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We ll have that linked in the show notes as well as the other resources, including her book mentioned on the show.
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You can tap the album art, that s that weird cartoony picture of me and AJ, in most mobile podcast players to see the show notes right on your phone.
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I also post a lot on Twitter, stuff that never makes it to the show, and I m very engageable, which isn t a word there.
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I m at theartofcharm on Twitter.
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Bootcamp details on the website, bootcamp.theartofcharm.com, subscribe in iTunes, and of course, don t forget about the challenge, theartofcharm.com, slash challenge, or text charmed,
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to 33444, we will get you networking and more networkable ASAP.
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Special thanks to the Jasons for their help in production of the Art of Charm podcast.
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Go ahead and tell your friends, because the greatest compliment you can give us is a referral to someone else, either in person or shared on the web.
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Now have a great week, and leave everything and everyone better than you found them.
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Thanks for listening to the Art of Charm.
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Get more confidence, relationship skills, life hacks, and everything for the extraordinary man at theartofcharmpodcast.com.