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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we look for a listener who s grown a 14-year beard in his quest to find the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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We start a new Instagram account where you can post pictures of your funnel.
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And we go deep on the topic of addiction and the sales process.
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Welcome everybody to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in sales training podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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My name is Bill Kasky.
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We are here every Monday for your listening enjoyment.
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We re glad you re with us.
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Welcome new listeners.
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Amazing to me how many people keep sending us notes and say, I just found your podcast.
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Well, there are 17 million sales people in this country.
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Imagine looking for something for 14 years and finally finding it.
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Imagine how good that must feel.
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I ve been looking for you guys for 14 years.
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You guys got a big, long beard.
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He s been running all over the country, hasn t shaved.
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He committed to no shaving until he found something that he liked.
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Finally found us.
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So new listeners, glad you re here.
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Go to the LinkedIn group, advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn, or just go to LinkedIn.
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and look for the Advanced Selling Podcast group.
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We ve got like 10,400 people there, I think.
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Big number.
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And just start to put some kind of dabble, put some things up in there.
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I put a couple of notes.
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Well, here s what I d like to do.
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I d like to have some new listeners.
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Look, if you ve only listened for the past 90 days or so, send us a note.
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Send us a note at listenerandadvancesellingpodcast.com.
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Tell us your entire life story.
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and about how you found us.
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No, tell us what you want to hear.
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Tell us a little bit about you, and we might even do a spotlight here or there.
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You ll get absolutely nothing for it.
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We have no Chotskys to hand out.
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We have stickers.
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I got stickers in my backpack.
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I ll hand them out.
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We ll give them out.
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We ll mail them to you.
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Call Brian.
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Snail mail them to you.
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He ll email them to you.
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Stamps.com.
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Whoops.
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Call back.
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But I would like to hear from people who just are joining the journey.
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I would, too.
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That would be wonderful.
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Listen to advancesellingpodcast.com.
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Same email address, different subject.
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If you want us to come visit you, we are on the road again, traipsing around, thinking about going to Cleveland here.
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It s getting close, Bill.
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Is it?
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Getting close.
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Yeah.
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So do we have a gig there?
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Or are you just thinking about going?
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Well, we looked everywhere for a great wedding place to get married.
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And we looked at Aruba and Trinidad and Tobago.
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Kappa Chaluka, and we decided on Cleveland.
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Cleveland, yeah.
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We decided to get up there with the Caribbean.
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We re going to go to Wellington, Ohio.
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Now, if you d like, if you have a sales meeting, national sales meeting, a sales launch, any of those things where you bring speakers in or a speaker, I d like you to give us an email, listeneratadvancelinkpodcast.com.
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But come see us.
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And I promise you, the group we just came from, everyone, I love when I hear this, and then I m kind of bashful about it.
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at our last gig, had people come up and say, we ve had different speakers at this thing over several, several years.
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You re the best we ve ever had.
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And I just think that s such a neat thing.
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What d they say about me?
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And people don t say, no, no, they said us, like me and you.
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It was a team combo thing.
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Yeah.
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They said Bill s the best we ever had.
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You were like ninth.
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You re ninth.
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Hey, before we get to the topic, which is going to be a really good one, I ve got a question for you.
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Do you ever wish you could have done more last month than you did this month, but you just didn t have the time, tools, and processes?
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You can check them out at outreach.io forward slash ASP to chat with them and receive a free copy of their new book.
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Hey, Brian, if you need help creating beautiful sales proposals and quotes, then with PandaDoc, you can look like a billion dollar business without spending like one.
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You can create, send, track, and e-sign stunning, and I do mean stunning, on-brand interactive sales documents in mere minutes with their proposal software.
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You can try it free for 14 days because you are a listener of the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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Go to pandadoc.com forward slash ASP, and while you re there,
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Download a free copy of Elements of a Winning Sales Proposal.
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I think you ll like it.
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So topic today, this is something that Brian and I are constantly working on, and that is this notion of, well, what really stops us?
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We both work with clients, and we coach people and train organizations, and there s that time where
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You are in front of someone, and you look at their potential, and you see their potential, and they don t.
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And that they re constantly either short of quota, or they re not setting their goals high enough.
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And you look at someone and say, man, she could be awesome.
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What s going on there?
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And so we re always asking ourselves, well, how do we help people get to what s going on so that we can help them break through and prosper in a new way using some of the mindsets and the strategies that we teach?
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So I ve been doing a little research on this notion of addiction, and I first was introduced to this by at least the study of it.
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I m very familiar with addictions, but the study of it was a guy named Gabor Mate.
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And he s a Hungarian, I think he s a Hungarian, I think that s his
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origin, and he does a lot of work in the drug addiction community, but he has expanded his work to entrepreneurs and to business people, and it s G-A-B-O-R-M-A-T-E.
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And he s really interesting, and he talks about how everything in our life that s not going the way we want is because of an addiction.
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And I broke it down here.
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I kind of took the liberty and said, there s three types of addiction.
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There s the chemical side, which is what we typically talk about, drugs, pharmaceuticals, alcohol.
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There s the social part of addictions, or the social addictions, which are maybe shopping and buying the big house we can t afford, but we buy it because we want everybody to think that we re successful.
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But then there s the more insidious part that we re going to talk a little bit about today, and that s the emotional addictions that we have.
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Addiction to approval.
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Addiction to people feeling like we re worthy.
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Things that we re looking for applause.
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We talked in the pre-show, kind of like we love it when someone comes up to us and says, man, that presentation was really good.
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We re not going to buy anything, but that presentation was really good.
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And they don t say the buying anything.
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But we re so proud when a presentation goes well, and that sometimes is addictive.
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And so what I thought, Brian, you and I can do a little bit today is talk about where that shows up for sales professionals.
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It s a serious topic, and we like to laugh through topics.
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And we will to this one, perhaps.
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But it is serious.
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And the goal here is not to make light of it, nor is it to treat it with any kind of diluted emphasis.
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It s to have you take a look at where this might hold you up.
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Yeah, and I think for, and if you, whether you ve got experience with some of the other addictions, so whether you, like there s the social addictions too, or the non, you know, things like gambling and sex addiction and stuff like that, or chemicals, alcoholism, narcotics, and that sort of jazz.
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Some of our listeners, I m sure, have experience with that, or going through something, or maybe they re in a place like, maybe I need to go through something here.
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My experience has been that no matter what brand it is or whatever goes on, there are root causes that are all very similar.
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And I think this emotional addiction is one of them, is that addiction for the...
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need for someone else to fulfill something in me that is in a hole or a new space that I can t.
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And so I look for things just like Bill just said.
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So I look for a car, or a job, or a title, or something like that.
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And so we go seeking those things out.
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Everyone does this to some degree.
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And for most people, it s no problem.
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For some people that have it really bad, it can jack up their lives.
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So in this case, I think for you listening, you re going, OK, well, no, I m not an alcoholic, and I m not a shopping addict or whatever.
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It s still there.
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I can guarantee you some of the stuff we re going to talk about is still there.
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So I d ask you as you re listening to reflect, just as a great reflection episode, to say, OK, let s take an inventory.
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Take an inventory.
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Like, where am I with this deal?
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Where could this affect me?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I think the you mentioned gambling I would see that as a social, you know, I gamble because I don t know that that s chemical but it s it s no less Entrap entrapping.
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I mean it it s hard to get out of but
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So when I think about addiction, and this gentleman I mentioned earlier, Gabor Mate, talks about addiction as a, we re seeking a temporary state of pleasure that eventually becomes our enemy.
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So we re seeking something that feels good temporarily, but at some point, if we keep doing it over and over and over, it starts to have a negative effect on us.
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So I think, I ll just start with the first thing.
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Sales professionals typically get into the space because someone has told us that you re really good with people.
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People like you.
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You re likable.
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You re effervescent.
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You re vivacious.
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You re eager.
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You re fun to be around.
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Effervescent, yeah.
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Going along with that is the need for approval.
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So a lot of times the effervescence you see in people is not really them genuinely, it s them putting on a show so that they can get accolades from the world.
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So I would say that s the first thing that I see a lot of times is the addiction to applause, not literally, but figuratively, that somebody says, man, that Brian Neal, he s a good dude.
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And that just makes us feel good.
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Yes.
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And I think to that end, when you go down that route and everyone says, what we can t deny here is that it does feel good.
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And it s OK.
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The problem becomes when we go seeking that for some other reason instead of just letting it in sort of neutral and be and then go.
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So for instance, when someone comes up to you or me or both of us after we give a talk or speech and someone says, that s the best speech I ve ever heard,
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If we let ourselves believe that, we re in trouble.
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We have to bring, so this is my first one that I think, I know that from an addiction standpoint, addicts lack this a lot, and I think salespeople lack this a lot too, and that is the idea of perspective, that we lose perspective of what s really going on in the whole deal.
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So for instance,
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We think that if we lose this big deal we ve been working on, that the world is going to end in some way, shape, or form.
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Or we think that I m going to lose my job.
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Or we think it s going to affect negatively on my career and that I won t get promoted.
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It s all downhill.
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It s all, yes.
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And all of that stuff is outside of the present moment.
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All that stuff is futuristic stuff that hasn t happened.
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Or if it s in the past, you re dwelling on it.
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It s stuff that happened that you can t change.
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You cannot undo the past.
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You can t, as Wayne Dyer used to say, you cannot have not done something once you did it.
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You can t have not, you know, I can t unsee it.
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I can t not have gone to vacation when I went on vacation.
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It s impossible.
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And so I think a perspective hit is really important here, to work really hard to develop a healthy perspective of what s reality and what isn t.
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And so when someone comes up and says, that s the best speech I ve ever heard, that s their opinion.
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Someone else can have the opposite opinion, that that s the worst speech I ever heard.
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And as Wayne Dyer used to say, which I think this is brilliant, the response to both of those people is the same, and that is that you may be right.
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Both of those people may be right.
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It may have been the best, and it may have been the worst.
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Losing the deal may have been the worst thing that ever happened to you, and it may have been the best thing that ever happened to you.
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You just don t know.
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That, to me, is a perspective switch.
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Yeah, I like that whole I appreciate your input is something I ve always tried to use, rather than assign a positive or a negative.
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Because I wrote plus and minus here as you were talking, and we will have some people who listen and say, well, I stay grounded, Brian.
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I mean, when someone says to me,
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you ve done a great job with this, or a deal closes, I don t get all that excited.
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But if somebody tells me they didn t like me, or they thought I blew it, then I get down on myself.
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Well, it s the same thing.
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It s someone else s opinion of your actions that you either take personally if it s negative, and you say you don t take it personally when it s positive.
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But I think we take, it s a natural, these are natural instincts.
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These aren t things we turn on and off.
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But if you feel like,
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you take negative news worse than you take positive news, then you probably, we, and again, we re speaking for all of us here looking in the mirror, we probably have an issue.
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Yes.
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That s worth looking at at least.
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Would agree totally.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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Here s another one.
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Just getting the deal versus not getting the deal.
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We talk about detachment in the All In program, which if you have not purchased All In, it s a six-module audio recording of Brian and I taking this entire system and methodology from start to finish.
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And we talk in there a lot about detachment.
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And detachment is that notion that we are OK with the business or without the business.
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And to me, getting the deal and that feeling, that rush that comes along with when you get the call and they say, Brian, we re going with you, there is a rush there.
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And unfortunately, now I m not detached anymore.
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And so getting the deal, I think, for a lot of people is the addiction.
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I m addicted to that feeling of, they like me.
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They re going to buy from me.
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Yeah, that s really, really good.
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Here s another element that I think is prevalent in this kind of addictive emotional state, and that is the dwelling on uncontrollables.
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Dwelling on uncontrollables.
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And so much of what we do in everything in our lives, specifically in sales, is completely 100% out of our control.
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For instance, we can t do anything
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to make the competitor, your competitor, change anything.
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You can t make them change their price.
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You can t make them change a feature on their product.
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You can t do any of that.
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You can t make someone buy from you.
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You can t make them call you back.
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You can t make them say yes or no.
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And I think too often, we can t control input pricing.
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There s all sorts of stuff you can t control.
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And I think what happens sometimes is as this
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emotional things starts to sneak in on me in a negative sense, I start to look externally for defense mechanisms.
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So when I m not performing, or I lose a deal, or I m having a bad month or a bad quarter, as I m examining why, I will always tend to look external at the things.
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And most of those things, almost all of them, I have zero control over.
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Zero.
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So because we re control freaks, though, we can t accept that.
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We cannot, no, completely.
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It must be that pricing that got in the way of me getting the job.
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Yes, yes.
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And a good friend of mine who s very well-versed in this whole addiction thing says, addicts always have to have something or someone to blame.
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It s just a natural case in an addict.
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You have to have something or someone to blame.
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And so when you start to see this behavior, again, if you re not a chemical addict, but it s all there, we see it in salespeople all day, every day, don t we?
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We say, oh, well, why didn t we get the deal?
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Well, this, and they, and we didn t, and we should have, and I didn t have enough equipment.
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The delivery was bad, and I couldn t get stuff back from marketing.
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You never hear say, as I took inventory of losing this deal, here s where I thought I contributed to us losing it.
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and make that list.
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No one makes that list.
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Wouldn t it be great if everybody made that list?
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But that s the only thing, because if you buy into this notion that all of our feelings, all things that we feel, are nothing more than our experience internally, they re not about the external world, they re generated internally.
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then we can not have the feeling of, whoa, when we don t get a deal, we can unbiasedly say, well, I wonder what happened there.
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I m going to make a list.
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I like that idea.
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Make a list, and I m going to talk to them.
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Maybe go out back to the prospect and say, look, I know it s over.
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I m interested, because I don t want this to happen again.
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To what extent did I play a role in this?
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Yeah, and that s the trick.
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I think a lot of, not a lot,
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Companies are getting better at the whole post-mortem.
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If they look at the deal and say, where do we lose it?
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I think where people totally miss is the personal post.
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Like, what did I do to contribute to us not getting this deal?
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Because that, to me, all the matter.
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From a salesperson s, if you re listening to this, you want to get better.
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The only thing that matters is your list of how you contributed to losing the deal and or winning the deal on both sides.
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And look in a healthy manner.
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Go ahead.
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No, no.
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We all can.
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Are you going to go?
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We all contribute to that we do and so but it s hard to again from an unbiased standpoint Look at that if we are hung up and addicted to the outcome so much so that we blame other things I like that notion of yes So here s it.
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Here s one example.
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Let s say that
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I look at my funnel right now, and it s not where I need it to be.
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I m getting some heat from my manager, from the team.
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I look at everybody else s pipeline.
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It seems to be full.
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Mine s just at a bad state.
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It doesn t always happen, but right now, I m feeling anxious, and I feel the pressure.
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Yes.
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So how do you coach someone to look at that through the eyes of addiction so that you can make arrangements and make mental notes and change the feeling around your business?
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Because if you go out feeling pressure, we all know that that s bad news.
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Yes.
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And there s no stable center there of groundedness and foundation and kind of in the world of what s the serenity prayer?
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to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference.
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And that s that stable ground is, you know what?
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I m not in control.
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That s it.
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You re not.
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But how would you coach someone to look at this topic through the eyes if I m looking at a funnel that s inadequate?
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Yeah.
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I think it s the same way that we ve been talking about.
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So I m looking at it and going, OK, even the word, and I know it s in there, it s inadequate is the first problem.
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So I m looking at the funnel, and I m saying, there s not enough in here, or it s too slow, or it s, you know, we have to first- It s translated to, I m inadequate, versus I m inadequate, versus the funnel is adequate.
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Versus the funnel is adequate, versus the funnel is nothing.
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The funnel is eight deals with a total of this much pending.
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That s what it is.
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Now, you can play the game like, well, it needs to be more on that step.
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But that doesn t help you.
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That puts you right back into it.
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SPEAKER_00
It s funny, though, how the funnel takes on its own personality.
1
SPEAKER_00
It does, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s like, well, what s your funnel look like?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, you mean John the funnel or Fred the funnel?
1
SPEAKER_01
He s gained a little weight since his high school days, but he looks pretty good.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s a little softer in the middle.
1
SPEAKER_01
Some weeks, he s good.
1
SPEAKER_01
Some weeks, he s not.
1
SPEAKER_01
What does your funnel look like?
1
SPEAKER_01
That s another podcast.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s funny.
1
SPEAKER_01
Everybody paint a picture of your funnel and send it to a listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
1
SPEAKER_01
But isn t that true?
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s like, well, you know, Brian,
2
SPEAKER_00
How s things going?
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, let s look at your funnel.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s look at your funnel here.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know what?
2
SPEAKER_00
That s so true.
2
SPEAKER_00
We only look at the funnel when it s not good.
2
SPEAKER_00
We don t if it s overflowing.
2
SPEAKER_00
We don t say, let s look at your funnel.
2
SPEAKER_00
We just look right by it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
How s the funnel go?
2
SPEAKER_00
OK, let s keep going.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bye-bye.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s really funny.
2
SPEAKER_00
We should start an Instagram, a Finsta.
2
SPEAKER_00
We should start a Finsta with our, how s your funnel look?
2
SPEAKER_00
And have people taking pictures.
2
SPEAKER_00
People are going to, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I would start with just trying to neutralize all that and see it for what it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
All it is is a set of numbers and some open opportunities.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s all it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
The things that you ve worked, that s all it is.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a result of what you did three months ago, probably.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s all it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, that s all it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then what you have in front of you, then, is your own behavior and your own thinking and your own language
2
SPEAKER_00
work on the things that are in the funnel.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s kind of what you have.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you can work to put new things in the funnel, and you can work to close things that are in the funnel, or clean the funnel out because things have been sitting there too long.
2
SPEAKER_00
But this whole idea, like you said, of that it s a representation of me, that s the problem that people have in this kind of emotional addiction thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s hard not to.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you re a leader, you do it.
2
SPEAKER_00
We do it as leaders.
2
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
We let things define us.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I do things to help me with this when I get caught up in that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think of a good friend of mine.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was refereeing my first Michigan-Ohio State game.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now, I ve been in some big games before, but that s a big one.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you grew up in the Midwest, that s a big game.
2
SPEAKER_00
And a good friend of mine, who was on the field with me, I could tell he was really nervous.
2
SPEAKER_00
He came up to me and he said, just remember, there are about 6.999 billion people on the planet that don t give a crap about this game.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s cute.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s the truth.
2
SPEAKER_00
Think of all the people in India, in China, in England, everywhere else in the SEC that don t, you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
The SEC, for once.
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly, about Michigan Ohio State.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, who s that?
2
SPEAKER_00
So that was just.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you re on the field pondering that all the plays, going, hmm, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m getting tears, right, as Lloyd Carr s taking a piece of my bottom out.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but that s, hey, thank you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Who was coach of Ohio State then?
2
SPEAKER_00
Jim Trestle.
2
SPEAKER_00
OK.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, back to the topic.
2
SPEAKER_00
That is a good reminder to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a perspective reminder.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like, you know what?
2
SPEAKER_00
So I ve got this funnel here.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s where I am.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can change anything in my life to a degree that I want to.
2
SPEAKER_00
I could go run a hamburger stand in Aruba.
2
SPEAKER_00
I could go live in the mountains.
2
SPEAKER_00
I could go work at a Starbucks.
2
SPEAKER_00
I could go teach high school in Alaska.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you can do, yours is free to do all those things.
2
SPEAKER_00
And if you did, things would just keep going without you.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then you d be in that new environment.
2
SPEAKER_01
Your industry is not going to stop.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s what we think.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or the company.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s been 20 years.
2
SPEAKER_00
There was a guy, a young Brian Neal.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if you paid attention to the Procter Gamble stock since I left, but I mean, it has gone straight down.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t think someone s bought a box of Tide since 95, have they?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t think so.
2
SPEAKER_00
Seriously, everything is bigger than us.
2
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t matter who we are.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think also with that funnel thing is that when our focus goes to lack and it goes to not enough, inadequate, insufficient, whatever, now that commands all of our energy is how do I get away from the lack?
2
SPEAKER_01
How do I fill it up?
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think a better
2
SPEAKER_01
a better alternative way to look at that is, well, how can I go out and bring value to people?
2
SPEAKER_01
How can I go be generous with what I know?
2
SPEAKER_01
And some of my experience is, can I write an article?
2
SPEAKER_01
Can I create a podcast?
2
SPEAKER_01
Can I go out and just serve people?
2
SPEAKER_01
Can I go serve my clients?
2
SPEAKER_01
I remember I had a mentor, and he said, whenever you are down about prospecting, go serve a client.
2
SPEAKER_01
Go work with a client.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that immediately infuses you with energy that then you can use to go do what you need to do.
2
SPEAKER_01
No doubt.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a really good topic.
2
SPEAKER_01
We are interested in what you all think about this.
2
SPEAKER_01
And we can go a little bit deeper on it if you want at some point.
2
SPEAKER_01
But we like to talk it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, we talk about a lot of strategies and tactics and attitudes here.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I thought this was worth discussing.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think it s been a decent start to it.
2
SPEAKER_01
So really, really good.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you prefer not to post anything on the LinkedIn group, you can send us an email at listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_01
And just share your story with us.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re not going to use it unless you want us to.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think it would be good to open up some dialogue community around this.
2
SPEAKER_01
Agree.
2
SPEAKER_01
Good stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
See you next time.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re trying to stay mellow.
2
SPEAKER_00
Selling podcast.
2
SPEAKER_01
Goodbye.
2
SPEAKER_01
Goodbye.