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Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in podcast history.
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I m Bill Kasky.
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I m Brian Neal.
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And we are pleased as punch to be sitting with you today.
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If you have not been watching us, I know it s a treat that you could share with your whole family on YouTube.
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Make sure you go to YouTube and look up Advanced Selling Podcast.
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And all of our episodes now are filmed.
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And we re both in situations today where probably not optimum with microphone and video quality.
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But we ll get back to our $100,000 set here soon.
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You ll be impressed.
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World headquarters of ASP.
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That s right.
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I do.
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I need it.
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Oh, we do a shout out.
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Our friends at Sales Panther.
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Sales Panther.
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It s a go-to-market strategy, sales leadership, outbound sales automation group.
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Put us on a really nice list.
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They put us on basically their best five podcasts they d recommend.
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Sales podcast world s crowded now.
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When we started, there were two.
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Then the other one quit.
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We kept going.
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And then now it s everybody.
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And it means a lot when people have a lot of choices.
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There s a lot of noise out there to put us on the list.
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So we d like to say thanks to our friends at Sales Panther who aren t even an advertiser.
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Yeah, that s really, really kind of them to put us there s some really nice people on the list to be part of that.
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I m actually I want to ask you this bill.
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I m in one of my clients spaces and I am in what I would call a fishbowl office.
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So I am in a room that is all glass on that side.
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And it s right by the front door.
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Who thought that would be a productive thing to do, to put an all glass conference room by the front door?
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Because everyone that s in this conference room, while they re trying to work or focus, is getting waved at, talked to, someone pressing cheeks up into the, you know, this cheek, not that butt cheek, and are waving and all this jazz.
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I just thought, you know, it s a great idea from a, doesn t feel like in a closet, but kind of poor for productivity.
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Yeah.
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And then we, and then we name it the fish bowl.
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Is that what it s called?
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No, but that s what we call it.
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That s what everybody calls it actually.
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Not just you.
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It s like you re on display.
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It s like you re on display.
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It really is.
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Literally.
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Yes.
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Do you remember?
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Do you remember growing up, you probably don t because I don t think you were here then, there was a radio station on Meridian Street in Indianapolis called WIFE, W-I-F-E.
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It would have been in the early 70s, so you weren t even born yet probably, but they had a window of the world.
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And WLS has had that, a lot of radio stations, I think even MS Downtown has that.
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And the broadcaster stands and people are waving.
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Yeah, yeah, that was kind of cool.
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I mean, because they they wanted to be on stage, but not fishbowl like you are.
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You don t want to be on stage.
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Yeah, not like work work.
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You know, that s just funny.
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Yeah, now you go down.
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Now the radio is all automated now.
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So when you go downtown, there is a radio station, two of them where they re the glasses there.
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There s never a there s never anybody in there.
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Never anyone.
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Everything is automated.
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All the all the jocks are from home now and satellite blah, blah, blah.
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It s kind of sad, actually.
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All right.
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You want to get to the topic?
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Sure.
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You know, when Brian and I come together to record, there s never a loss of things because he has a large client base, I ve got a large client base.
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And so there s always things to work on.
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And sometimes when we get posed questions by a VP of sales or CEO or salesperson, we, after being in the business as long as we have, we kind of know what s really going on.
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And I m wondering if it would be a good episode to shine the light on that, because sometimes I think we are blinded.
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We have blind spots.
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And let s just say we did an episode here a few weeks ago about LinkedIn.
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And if you know you should do LinkedIn, and you re not doing it,
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What s really going on there?
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And you can t say, well, I don t have a camera or, you know, that s been cloudy out lately.
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And those are excuses.
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But the question I think we always have to ask ourselves is what s really going on either in our mind or in the market?
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or what s really in the way.
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And I think that might be interesting to talk about some things that you hear from clients and they say this is going on and you realize, no, no, that s not what s really going on here.
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I think that might be kind of so great.
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So great.
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This is almost an episode where the title of the episode and that sentence is the whole episode.
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Because like, all you really need to do is get in the habit of asking yourself, what s really going on?
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Whether it s with me, my performance, whether it s with my market, my company, what s really going on?
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Just put your brain, kind of like our friend, Terry Daniel, you know, talks about the I wonder question.
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I wonder why that puts your brain, I love asking ourselves, what s really going on?
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So, so a couple observations.
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And I think we have the gift, Bill and I have the gift, both we do from what we do for a living, but also with the, with the scope where we do it.
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So the hundreds of companies and thousands of people over many, many years, and it s what you do, you, it s just more noticeable maybe than it is to an individual, to themselves, or even to a manager, to a, to one of their salespeople.
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Um, and the,
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I always like to take, uh, if you ever talk or heard about, um, you took up like a movie writing course, didn t you?
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You talk about story arching when story art, when they re writing a story, they use the words button.
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However, and, but however, ours, what, what makes a story interesting?
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If I say, well, we, we, uh, we walked into the room together and sat down or we go, we walked into the room to get room together.
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However, there were no chairs.
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And so then, however, as a left turn,
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I love taking that philosophy and applying it to this topic.
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Because when you ask yourself what s really going on, I want to go to a place of something that might be a bit of a contrarian thought first, just to see what goes on.
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So when someone says, what s really going on with the market s crap?
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I might go, I actually think the market s really good.
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I go the opposite of what my first instinct is on purpose.
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You know what I mean?
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The market s really good, it s different, and it s still really good.
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I got this this morning, a group of a client of mine who does $5 million with a company who spends $1.5 billion in my client s business.
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And if you would ask their team, their team is going, we re doing great with that customer.
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I mean, we re doing $5 million.
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They love us.
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They love us.
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And that s what they said.
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Literally this morning, the leaders, because that s what the leaders said, the team s like, they love us.
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I m like, do they?
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They re giving you $5 million of $1.5 billion.
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Sounds like they don t love us.
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So you go the opposite direction.
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Because if they loved us, we d probably be doing $50 million or $500 million.
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But $5 million of $1.5 billion doesn t sound like they love us.
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So a contrarian thought first to explore it just to see where it goes.
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My first bit of advice on that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I think you re just
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I think people like us, when we re outsiders, bring a different framing to the problem, too.
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You just reframe the problem.
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They like you, but they only like you 3.5% of how they like other people.
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So I think how we frame problems is part of this to really understand what s really going on.
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One thing you could do.
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You know, I keep coming back to this shooting videos and LinkedIn because I know how important personal brand is.
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I just keep harping on it with my clients and, you know, some take advantage, some don t, but what s really going on when I know I need to do something, but I don t do it.
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And what s really happening there is something that s happening inside.
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Because I ve already concluded, oh, no, I should be doing this.
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But I m not.
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And so it s rarely a, I don t know what camera to use, as I said earlier.
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It s more, what s stopping you internally?
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And is it a fear of what other people will think of you if you do something that, you know, is maybe out of the ordinary for you?
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What happens if you fail?
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You know, am I going to lose friends?
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I mean, there s all these things.
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that you have to dig down deep and almost make a list of what the possibilities are before you arrive at, oh, that one right there, that might be it.
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And I think we re afraid to make a list because, hell, what if the list includes all those things?
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All those things are really going, getting in the way.
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You know, anything in the sales process where you know you need to do something, and we talked about this a little bit last time, and you don t do it.
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What s really going on?
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Not with the customer, with us.
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Yes, it s really going on here as well.
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They have a they have a marketing team that always gets involved, right?
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I m not talking about that What s going on with you that caused you to abstain from asking the question that you know, you needed to ask.
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Yes I always use the I always say apples versus french fries example when people talk about their health
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Every human on the earth knows the difference between French fries and an apple.
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Every one of us do.
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We all know that.
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We go to McDonald s and they have apples as a side.
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And no one gets apples.
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They all get French fries.
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Why?
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Why don t, well, I m trying to lose weight.
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Well, I got small fries instead.
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Cause I m like, hang on, hang on, hang on.
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They got apples.
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Those are 80 calories, zero fat and some fiber in them.
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These are 200 calories, 40 grams of fat.
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A lot of salt anyway.
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So what s really going on?
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What s really going on?
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Yeah.
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I feel entitled to eat crappy food.
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Um, I don t feel good about myself, so I m going to keep feeling bad about myself and pile on.
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Um, I want to get a quick hit of serotonin when I eat those French fries for the 45 seconds, I spike up and then crash and feel bad and shameful that I ate fries again.
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Yeah, there s something going on beneath the surface because the intellectual side knows exactly what to do.
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Exactly.
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It s a very easy choice.
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Yeah.
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So I m going to pose a thought here that in sales and in business,
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chances are we don t do what we know we need to do because we are attached to a certain outcome that we can t be certain of.
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Like if you knew, if somebody said to you, Brian, I m going to take it to my CEO and see what he thinks, you re naturally going to say, oh, wait a minute.
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Tell me what that looks like.
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And why is he or she on this call?
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Well, I can t go any further until I talk to the CEO.
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You would know to do that.
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but you re unattached.
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So it makes it easier to make because you ve got a list of other prospects.
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And if they don t want to work with you, sorry, your loss and mine.
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But when we re attached, we literally cannot make that move because we think, what will they say?
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What if they throw us out?
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I only have two prospects in my funnel.
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This is one.
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Now I m down to one.
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That s what s really going on.
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So true, isn t it?
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And then we justify with this reverse intellect.
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Meaning we say, well, you know, I ve got a great relationship with Bill.
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I don t, you know, I don t want him to feel pressure.
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I don t want to feel like I was going over his head or anything.
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That s the intellectual justification for what s really going on is I m scared.
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That s what s really going on.
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what I say is going on intellectually.
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It s like, well, Bill and I have got a great rapport built up.
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I just, you know, I don t want him to think I m going over his head.
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And then it s almost, and believe me, we re talking about things that we all do too.
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This is not.
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Oh, sure.
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Of course.
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We re perfect here, but I know sometimes for me, if I justify it intellectually to an external thing, it s almost like, wow.
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Steeped accountability there for that one.
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Right, right.
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It makes a ton of sense to me.
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The thing that I didn t do and the reason I didn t do what I knew I was supposed to do makes a ton of sense to me.
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I mean, congratulations, Bill.
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Very smart.
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I did, yeah.
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I thought through this long and hard.
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I decided this one, nah, I m going to let Bill take it to the CEO.
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It s the right thing to do.
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It s so true.
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It s so true, isn t it?
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It s so true.
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We do that really good, yeah.
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Our recommendation here is for you to look at something that you either should be doing but aren t or something in the sales process you find yourself struggling with and ask yourself that question.
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What s really going on here with me that is causing me to
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you know, it s a force that I can t reckon with and I can t get over.
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And if you list some of those things out, I think you ll find A, it s always a mindset thing.
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B, it s probably always a fear thing.
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And C, once you identify it, then it loses its mystery.
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It s not about losing energy.
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You have to identify, oh, you know what?
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I m afraid of losing the business.
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Well, maybe I need to figure out a way to say it so that I don t lose the business or lose the opportunity because I m not offending anybody.
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Maybe I need to think of the words differently.
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All sorts of solutions pop up then.
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Maybe you just say that.
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I say, look, Bill, I ve got to tell you, I would normally engage with the CEO.
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I m a little fearful to even bring that up because I don t want you to think I m going over your head.
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You re not going, you know, I say, but I feel really strongly about this, man.
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But I, I, I m honestly, you know, I can t believe I even just said that.
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Just be real with it.
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It s like, you can t go wrong.
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That s it.
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If you re unattached, I think you can say that very easily.
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And that, that probably is the right thing to do because it, it s authentic.
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Yeah.
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That s just real.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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Okay, if you have not checked out our LinkedIn group, go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash LinkedIn.
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If you haven t checked out the Insider Program, which is where I spend an hour and 15 minutes every month diving deep into a topic that is meaningful for our listeners, go to advancedsellingpodcast.com slash Insider.
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It s in the show notes.
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It s also here on the video.
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And Brian, I m committing to you, the next time we record, I m going to be in the friendly confines of the studio.
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I love it.
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And I too, cause I have reconfigured my studio a bit so that I will always come with some good audio and some good video.
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I kind of moved where I was recording.
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So the video should be even better.
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Yeah.
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Get, get out of that fish.
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Get out of the fish for sure.
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Okay.
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No one s walking by now.
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I feel lonely.
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I feel rejected.
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Now, where is everybody?
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Don t they know we re recording the advanced selling podcast?
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All right.
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See you next time.