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Tuesday, August 05, 2008

Is Poetry a Technology?

In Heidegger's 1958 essay "The Question Concerning Technology," as in other writings of his, he rehearses the old relation between poiesis and techne--"making" and "know-how," in the most simplistic translation I can render. Without getting too far yet into Heidegger's notion of "enframing" (Gestell), the phenomenon he points to as the result of modern technology, that is, the "challenging-forth" of resources (including human beings) as a "standing reserve," I want to stop and mull over the poiesis/techne nexus, in ways that run the risk of stating the obvious, and/or simply reworking the gist of Plato's Ion.

Poiesis is making; techne is knowing how to do things, including making. When the making in question is of an explicitly material nature, as in sculpture, architecture, carpentry, etc., the role of techne is relatively unproblematic. It involves a knowledge of materials, tools, and, physical techniques (hence the word techniques). The techne of the builder, the craftsperson, the designer, is measurable and finite, at least at a certain basic level that defines minimal competence.

At some point poiesis develops the specific sense of having-to-do-with-poetry, that is verbal poetry, that is an activity for which "making" starts to assume the status of a metaphor, something performed intellectually and/or emotionally that results in a physical artifact, but does not actually involve the manipulation of solid materials, other than a pen and paper (or keyboard, etc.). I say "other than" in order to point out that these materials, unlike, say, the marble used by a sculptor, do not inhere in the finished product--not that particular paper and ink, touched by the hands of the artist. The making performed by the poet is at a remove. It is a making that, for one thing, requires very little bodily exertion, things like repetitive-stress-syndrome aside. Most of it happens in the mind.

So poiesis eventually assumes this specialized sense. Or is this sense there from the beginning? That is, does poiesis from the very start stand in a relation of resistance to techne?

By invoking "resistance," I mean to ask whether there is some implied distinction between the practical functionality of techne and a dreamier, more perverse aspect of poiesis. And if there is, is it there from the beginning, or does it emerge only at a certain time, under certain circumstances?

I want to ask if there's a way of thinking about all this in which it becomes clear that poetry absolutely cannot be a technology, almost by definition. And at the same time, I wonder whether poetry assumes an ironic relation to technology, in which it exploits technological resources, explores technological themes, and generally behaves as though it were a member of the set "things that are intelligible under the rubric of technology," precisely in order to burlesque that relationship, to flaunt its total resistance to any subsumption by (modern) technology.

In looking at the tendencies of the past century or so that involve heavy interaction between poetry and technology, one observes a fairly constant perversity quotient. Almost never is the interaction one of straightforward cooperation or mutual embrace, and even when it sets out to be, as in the case of the Futurists, the results are hardly coherent as a smooth symbiosis of industrial efficiency and artistic epideixis or supplication (let alone the inverse). Rather, one is always aware of the absurdity of the union, as though vandals had broken into a factory and readjusted the machinery so that its gears ran in useless circles, or so that its mechanized arms produced frivolous and obscene objects. This, in fact, is almost the entire program of 'pataphysics: an indulgence in the rote motions of "scientific" procedure, but with the prior knowledge and intention that any equations or formulae thereby derived will be fit for nothing more creditable than the outfitting of ducklings with bullet-proof vests.

Now, it is true, we live in a time when poets use technology constantly as a convenience and an aid to composition. Certain poetic works are designed expressly to be viewed/heard/experienced via technological media. Their very existence, in fact, would be unimaginable in the absence of technologies like Boolean generators, Flash animation, and so on. Is there a fundamental difference between these apparent alliances and say, Bob Brown's "readie" machine, a little wooden contraption with rollers that allowed a spool of text to unravel its message in an anticipation of digital advertising marquees and cable news networks' "crawls"?

I suggest that when poetry puts on technological goggles and overalls, it does so ultimately to highlight its intrinsic incompatibility with the overarching agenda of modern technology--its capacity, perhaps, for "enframing" us all as a standing reserve of resources. This is in a sense yet another variation on the old "poetry makes nothing happen, and that's what's good about it" position. I'm tempted to push back further into history and suggest that poetry has also always had this relationship to philosophy, albeit in a necessarily subtler form.

Part of what led me to write all this was the idea that the writing of poetry is most "successful" when one knows least what one is doing: when the poet's claim to techne is least sustainable. It almost seems, however, as though there has to be some claim to techne in place, just so that claim can be travestied, either overtly or in some secret laughing chamber of the poet's mind. Therefore, poetry written by persons without any literary or craft sensibility whatsoever will almost always be negligible, because the poet therefore has nothing to misapply or subvert. But poetry written under the misconception that there is a reliable set of techniques one can use in some "correct" way will be sterile, inert. If there is a technology of poetry, it is a technology of failure--a technology of the failure of technology, except so far as technology can be made to succeed in assisting its own failure as a measure of poiesis.

Chris said...

ποιέω; ποίησις. Or, τέχνη. But poieo means "make" or "do", and even "make" in the sense of "make happen". From what little Heidegger I've read, he seems highly invested in the odd notion that in some proto-Greek, words had simple and hard-edged meanings, free from metaphorical extension and without polysemy. This is, I would argue, linguistically unlikely at best, and probably oh-things-were-so-great-in-America-in-the-50s–style wish fulfillment on Heidegger's part. But, like I said, I haven't read much of him, so feel free to ignore that if it doesn't seem right.

The term "technology" didn't have any particular connection with material sciences until 1859. Before then it had to do with systematic thinking on arts and grammar.

But perhaps I have a looser sense of the word "technology" than you do? Paper is a technology (says the medievalist); language is a technology (if you think anthropologically). Poetry has been using both of those technologies fairly comfortably -- though they are no Flash.

Why wouldn't poetry be a technology? We can't tell the "outcome" of poetry, but we can't tell the outcome of dice either, and they are still a technology; it's just the kind of technology that has an indeterminate outcome.

Perhaps we only notice them as technologies when they're novelties. Once we're used to them, they're not "technologies" any more, they're just assumed. They're facts.

I wonder if the first poets to start using the technology of writing were understood as "highlight its intrinsic incompatibility with the overarching agenda of" that new technology?

ag said...

I think the answer is going to be a matter of opinion, not fact. Philosophers always disagree with other philosophers. :D

I re-read the H. essay, and here's the best "answer" I could find (from another philosopher!):

Alain Badiou: "Heidegger distinguishes truth as aletheia, and understanding as cognition, science, techne. Aletheia is always properly a beginning. Techne is always a continuation, an application, a repetition. It is the reason why Heidegger says that the poet of truth is always the poet of a sort of morning of the world. I quote Heidegger: 'The poet always speaks as if the being was expressed for the first time.' If all truth is something new, what is the essential philosophic problem pertaining to truth? It is the problem of its appearance and its becoming. Truth must be submitted to thought not as judgment or proposition but as a process in the real. This schema represents the becoming of a truth. The aim of my talk is only to explain the schema. For the process of truth to begin, something must happen. Knowledge as such only gives us repetition, it is concerned only with what already is. For truth to affirm its newness, there must be a supplement. This supplement is committed to chance—it is unpredictable, incalculable, it is beyond what it is. I call it an event. A truth appears in its newness because an eventful supplement interrupts repetition. Examples: The appearance, with Aeschylus, of theatrical tragedy. The eruption, with Galileo, of mathematical physics. An amorous encounter which changes a whole life. Or the French revolution of 1792. An event is linked to the notion of the undecidable."

Other articles that may be of interest:
Why the Digital Computer is Dead ("New media mediates powers of invocation" -- "the computer as Muse")

The digital transformation of words (discusses the acts of writing and reading using the computer)

Digital poetics or On the evolution of experimental media poetry

Soteria said...

Thanks for the provocative entry. I am most interested by your suggestion that the poet must have some mastery of techne but also a willingness/ability/inclination to subvert techne (rambling elaboration of that interest to follow). I've spent some time studying prosody and that observation is consistent with what I have often observed. If one is a poet, the interest in prosody (or form or linguistics) is an interest in the raw materials of language, which are, of course, also the raw materials of poetry. My interest in those subjects is related to an interest in the body of the poem - that which conveys physical presence: how the poem sounds, looks, and feels on the tongue when spoken. I don't think one can overstate the significance of those elements in the reader (and writer's) initial and subsequent experience of the poem. However, it is not simply the materials, but their formal arrangement that ultimately makes a poem what it is. To use an analogy with nature, graphite and diamond are made entirely of the same one material (carbon); it is only their very different arrangements of carbon that result in what we think of as very different substances (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Diamond_and_graphite.jpg). Poems are like that too. But to this point, poetry is still only a kind of techne.

What I learned studying prosody (which, since it is hardly original, is what I hope everyone learns studying prosody): I could not find poets on whom constructive theory could be consistently imposed. One gives Shakespeare credit for blank verse, but he is everywhere subverting that model, varying metrical patterns to the point that entire lines can no longer be deemed primarily iambic. He is a master of that form because of how well and how purposefully he deviated from it. Likewise, to give Dickinson credit for writing in hymnal stanzas is to miss a double subversion - to miss that Dickinson's metrics are as pointedly ornery as Shakespeare's (if not more so - her rhyme is certainly more ornery) and that, in subverting her metrical scheme, she likewise thwarts and bastardizes the religious authority on which her mode is modeled. When I read of Hopkins anxiety about the innately subversive element in poetry, I read that as an accurate charge. There cannot be a system - whether theological or compositional - that poiesis will be able to resist. She is drawn magnetically to manipulate and, ultimately, thwart them. What always ends up being of interest in the study of prosody is just how a poet has thwarted what the poet has also worked so diligently to build: Dickinson does it laughingly, coyly, and sometimes coldly, using each sung syllable like a knife.

If one accepts that trait of poetry, then the constant attraction and repulsion of poetry and philosophy naturally follows. The poet and the philosopher are working with the same essential materials (language, logic, rhythm, syntax) and may even be one and the same person. Insofar as the philosopher has the reins, one will desire to create flawlessly - to make a poem that is a jewel of a system. Insofar as the poet dominates, one will need to destroy or to modify to the point of inconsistency or alteration. Why? I think it is because poetry and philosophy constantly enact a war between universal and particular (both between and amongst themselves). A related thought is that perhaps the poet's subversion of the system arises in part due to love of the materials, which seems true intuitively.

Andrew Christ said...

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I liked your post so much I decided to post it at my Birthdays of Poets blog, http://birthdaysofpoets.blogspot.com. If you prefer, I'll remove it.

Jordan said...

The innately subversive power of poetry is not unlike the solvent property of water; poetry.. art.. both make it possible to break rigid structures down not only so we don't get cut by those structures (which we need to survive) but also so we can digest them (which we also need to do to survive).

Or anyway. Brilliant sentence worthy of Austin: "...but with the prior knowledge and intention that any equations or formulae thereby derived will be fit for nothing more creditable than the outfitting of ducklings with bullet-proof vests."

BB said...

woah, terrific post KSM.

Chris suggests that Heidegger approaches the Greek with a desire, so that his works feel like “wish-fulfillments”—I see Heidegger approaching the language in a total appropriative sense. Terms like poeisis and techne, it seems to me, emerge in his writing as useful (for him) registers through which his philosophy develops. If this is done so at the expense of proper interpretations of Greek terms, oh well, right? No, I mean it, who gives a fuck? That shit is my bread and butter, anyway. And now and then I think H. does illuminate some philological truth by way of his circuitous problematic method and those moments are spectacular.

But Kasey, I was really disappointed that you didn’t fulfill your promise to bore my pants off with the reworking of Plato’s Ion! One of the terrific things about that text is that Socrates in effect proves what you’re trying to prove, though from the other side, that poetry is not a techne. I don’t have the text in front of me, so trying to present this from memory: poetry in material terms ends up being something more like sophistry, dangerous texts which guise around as a techne, but precisely because poetry can be no means to no ends, it cannot be. In something like authentic or perhaps “spiritual” terms, poetry isn’t a techne because a techne, and I want to say “by definition,” belongs to the realm of human knowledge and as Socrates elaborately proves, poetry does not belong to that realm. I think you’re iterating this when you write, “the writing of poetry is most "successful" when one knows least what one is doing: when the poet's claim to techne is least sustainable.”

It is an interesting question about the hitstory of poiesis. It means as such as early as Herodotus…and I can’t tell you if it already meant as such in Homer—though I think Homer refers to his own works mostly as “songs,” not using the word poiesis. In Ion, it can clearly be used to refer to poets, and opposed as such both to “prose writers” (the barely-understood meaning of idioteis in that dialogue) and “painters” (who are called grapsoi, or, literally, “writers”!)

I think one of the questions underneath your question, at least in terms of the ancient Western world (for whose history vis a vis the emergence of writing, the alphabet, etc. we actually have the historical evidence to study!), is that writing as a technology postdates poetry as a phenomenon. Poetry’s not the first thing by any stretch to be written down—nevertheless at some point before 500 b.c.e. it occurs to the “writers” in Greece that they can use this new technology and apply it to that cool shit the rhapsodes do, making them more or less obsolete, and guaranteeing a futurity in which poetry and technology are in tenuous relation.

phaneronoemikon said...

makes me think of Jean Tinguely's
self-destroying machines

and also the Post-Structuralist notion that all 'machines' or assemblages operate by breaking down.
I forget exactly how it works into their thought, but I think in Capitalism and Scitzophrenia, they describe the actual functioning of any machine, as a kind of erotic deferment of collapse. Is deferment even a word? If everything is at heart a kind of solitonic movement,
the plus and minuses of these things become necessarily braided, ie entropy is part of extropy and vice versa, or in a neural networking sense, a tree, or pinus,
a positive minus.

since poetry is often connected with trees, see your blog title,
i would think the key concept would be movement, but a kind of athleticism or lyricism when one gets from one label or branch, or lea to the next.. if poo in finnish
is tree, then~

ag said...
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ag said...

Sorry for typos -- uses instead of "use", etc. Technological difficulties resulting from using a laptop keyboard hooked up to a 17" RoboMonitor three feet away from me. Technepoo!

jdaviddark said...

This is awfully helpful and I thank you for it.
Perhaps, poetry is the technology that stays technology.

ag said...

Technepoesis is the gift horse that keeps on giving!

Stan Apps said...

Nice stuff Kasey. I'm looking forward to a continuation of this. . . Take it to the bridge baby!

Rik said...

[i]I'm worrying over all of this in order to get to my title question, whether poetry is a technology.[/i]

I can't envision poetry as technology - I can't conceptualise poetry as an independent entity from language. Though I can (just about) see a connection between language and technology in that both have the ability to result in some form of product.

I wrote an article a while back trying to argue that poetry (which is common across all languages afaik) is an evolutionary adaption helping to establish bonds between individuals and within social groups. I don't know if those thoughts would be of any help to you in answering your question, though I think there are parallels given the importance of tool use (and thus technology) as a successful evolutionary strategy to the species.

ag said...
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TT said...

I think Vico imagined the first humans as poets, makers who more or less made themselves human through an embodied-intuition. So it's kind of interesting that in this case poiesis and techne are pretty much evacuated from episteme -- the idea that at the heart of poetry/humans is a doing that doesn't rely on the subject-object arrangements that get propped up for 'knowing.'

Is poetry technology? Maybe? Heidegger's whole enframing I think crawls towards a totalizing arrangement where time, rivers, dirt, cotton candy, etc. are all understood as being on-reserve for efficient extraction. I have to dig deeper into this, but the sense of potential horror I get from him on this topic is the mass, culminating systemic aspect of modern technologies that all link up with one another to flatten being out all on the same, efficient and soul-killing plane. In Being & Time he talks about this feature of equipment, that no piece is ever by itself but always evokes a sort of room of other pieces of equipment that it links up with.

The whole question of poetry's relation to this, I think, might pivot on the writing/speech briar patch, and the split (according to Eric Havelock) between mythos and logos (which were before this partners) around the same time that writing as a system, and Platonic thought, rose up together. Once the storage and retrieval system of writing became extensive, logos took privilege over mythos for having a claim on The Truth (they were previously equals), with logos hardening into written, verifiable and fairly static notions like data, facts, eternal forms, and mythos transformed from being the flip-side of logos to being shut off from any claim to truth, and being more or less false stories common people tell each other.

So in Havelock's account, there is a massive transition from the oral culture that had poetry/music/internalized-memory as its storage and retrieval and pedagogical system, to an increasingly written culture that favored discourses like philosophy and histories like Thucydides (as opposed to Herodotus).

This kind of gears I think back to the breath-based thing from mid-20th century forward, which often ends up in a caricature but has its seed in the attempt to not just have speech-based poetics in an immediate sense, of some kind of idiotic boogie-woogie private spontaneous utterance, but to try and create something close to that previous pre-Platonic situation, with the poet as mouthpiece/medium/memorizer of a collective poetics.

So the link in Olson, Rothenberg, etc between speech and myth. But then the interesting thing is stuff like Olson using the typewriter, with its externalized, standardized alphabet and script as the means of scoring his breath-based line. Or the uses Spicer/Cocteau imagine for the radio, etc. Or like you point to with Bob Brown, how the whole transition crew seem to have a really strange approach towards technology. So like you were saying, Kasey, it's almost never (even in the initial moment of engagement, let alone the later, unanticipated consequences) a simplistic either/or of embrace or rejection of technology by poets. So I hate Grenier’s I HATE SPEECH not because I’m on the other side of the debate, but that it grinds down a sense of writing into being opposed to speech; I think Rothenberg, etc are trying re-invigorate the assumed borders between the two, but come up with a very different stance than a Derridean one. Instead of trying to undercut the sense of presence in the assumed private authenticity of speech, they’re trying to re-situate poetic writing in a kind of mythic crossroads between the personal and public so it doesn’t just link up with (or frame itself as an antinomy to) privileged logos-derived rationalized writing practices but that finds a way of re-imagining a connection of mythos and logos, and how that would position the poetic act.

My friend Tim Van Dyke once said he thought it’d be interesting to see a poet trying to combine a shamanic or vatic poetic impulse with a google-sculpting technique, which might generate a contemporary version of what I think these folks were up to in their moment, or what I think Maya Deren did a lot in her films.

The idea of failure at the heart of poetry is one that I can roll with. Heidegger suggest that the situation of equipmentality only becomes apparent when equipment fails: until then, the situation and the assignments that follow an entrance into equipmentality are more or less invisible. Written on a larger, contemporary scale, something like Y2K I guess would be illustrative; the enmeshing in contemporary technologies can be expressed either as invisible or as catastrophe. Maybe poetry situates itself somewhere in there.

I’d try to write more, but Simon just woke up from his nap.

Tony Tost

ag said...
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ag said...

"My friend Tim Van Dyke once said he thought it’d be interesting to see a poet trying to combine a shamanic or vatic poetic impulse with a google-sculpting technique, which might generate a contemporary version of what I think these folks were up to in their moment, or what I think Maya Deren did a lot in her films."

This is actually what I am after, although that's a tall order to fill...

ag said...

Ach! Also meant to say this is similar to what Burroughs did, except with printed text.

phaneronoemikon said...

Not to 'pee' on Tony's comment, but,

So I hate Grenier’s I HATE SPEECH not because I’m on the other side of the debate, but that it grinds down a sense of writing into being opposed to speech;

This is a huge problem for me.
Take the spirit of Grenier's sentences and look at this line again. The sentences are all about incremental perceptions and following "the line"

that line is thought.
thought is neither written nor spoken. It is, my friend, an event
quite outside the determination of language except through the guideposts of our supposedly Janusian friend "sprighting and weech"

Read with a little creativity there
Mr. Toast!

Here is one possible reading using my own patented hermeneutic systemics

Ih ate speech.
we can give Ih an Eww
and make this

Disgust Ate Speech.
ie Wordless disgust.

We can give Ih an Eye
making this

Eye ate speech.
ie 'Writing'
therefore a confounding
of writing and speech.

we can go further into
DS land (disjunctive Synthesis lan.d)

and get

I hat es peech

[The] Eye-Hat is Peach.

Probably a kind of clockwork orange
image where the bowler hat
is peach colored and has an eye
on the front. and maybe the
back of the bowler looks provocatively like a peach colored pudenda! mmm.

or to get even more crypto

p = tongue

tongue etching
= experience

or to reheal some of it

"I hate" is a tongue etching
ie, hating and by extension loving
are programs, and hence choices.

This relates to existentialism
and to the debate surrounding
a phrase like
Is all form inflection?

which clues us into the
paradoxical pervasiveness
of non-human subjectivity
ie what might be called

ie the question

"Do we speak language, or does language speak us?"

One must take hold of language at the letter level and ideally at the leve of the line.
I think Grenier amply provided this model.

Reading was already a shamanic technology eons ago.

big surprise folks.

Human have been wearing shoes
for 40 thousand years.
Long enough for our feet
to actually change because of

you guessed it!

So what do think words, let's forget poetry for a second, but just words are doing to us?

Don't be so hasty to suck the copula of any recieved knowledge
that floats your way.

Line and Taxis
Affect and Line

Shape for god's sake
and the eye, for Chry-Ist's

The Von Neumann Computer
is a folk mandala based
on an inside out understanding
of the mind, and in a greater sense
in the landscape itself

animals leave trails, and tracks

sand, soil
is an archive

the noosphere is
the zoosphere

Zeus and Nous
Zoos and Noose

Soothing News?

Know the system,
understand systemics!

The Fates stood above the gods,
and what were the fates?

The labels are lenses
the lenses are drugs
The drugs are demons
the demons are daimons
the daimons are diamonds

K. Silem Mohammad said...

At one point I kidded myself I was going to find the time to respond to all these great comments, but then reality intervened.

One thing, though, Lanny--do you know the entirety of Grenier's "On Speech," from whence the infamous "I hate speech" bite comes? I think you'd find that it's not grinding things down to an opposition between writing and speech, and that that key phrase is embedded in quotes in a way that makes it a kind of conditional hypothetical example.

But yes, the eye-hat is peach. No argument there.

ag said...

I agree with most of what you said, but:

Reading is a technology? I would think writing is the technology, printing, etc. Not the act of reading itself.

And yes, shamanic spells, texts, etc. have existed for centuries.

Pee Eth: The only part of TT's copula I hastily sucked on was the part about combining Google sculpting and shamanism. THAT has not been done yet, to my knowledge, with any consistency or in a body of work.

Cur-rect me if I'm rong.

TT said...

Well, I guess I'll have to go back to the Grenier w/o any huffy-puffiness and see what I find this time . . .

ag said...
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ag said...

After much more reading, including some McLuhan (how could I forget?!), Kroker, and others, I have come to yet a new conclusion:

(Especially if you read this essay from the beginning, I think you might arrive at the same conclusion when you reach this page:)

POETS are technology!

Whatchall think?

Cahya said...

phaneronoemikon said...

I don't know anything! I was just trying to see if I could get someone to talk to me! I'm like a sock hanging out a window ova heah..

speech ach!
dew leebdin!

ag said...

Better a sock hanging out a window than a foot poking out of a woodchipper.

phaneronoemikon said...

yes, reading.

look at the Dogon

Fox trail divination grids..

very old practice.

drawing a grid.
then. divining according
to what box
the box trails move

very old.

very techno.

phaneronoemikon said...

not box trails!

fox trails!

ag said...

You must have missed my last comment (which I made after my original comment to you about reading). Here 'tis again:

After much more reading, including some McLuhan (how could I forget?!), Kroker, and others, I have come to yet a new conclusion:

(Especially if you read this essay from the beginning, I think you might arrive at the same conclusion when you reach this page:)

POETS are technology!

not gnu theory
NEW theory

Patrick said...

Yes poetry is a technology. Poets are technologies as well, special kinds of technologies that can make further technologies. Making them a set of desiring machines. Shamanism is just a particular arrangement of machines. Being machines makes us no less mysterious, no less mystical, and, most importantly, no more determined. That living material can arrange itself or be arranged by its context into inherently chaotic and non-functional things for me at least strips out any fears of Matrix-like dystopic visions.

But maybe I should back up. Is the question about the poet-perjorative-sense of the word "technology"? If so, well then, we already have an answer prescribed to us, because it writes into us the correct answer, thus determining our answers in most cases, save for the antinomian, who will flip a negation on and choose the opposite of what's prescribed. But if we're talking about technology as a term referring to a Bucky Fuller-like sense, in the sense of making, specifically making more out of less, then, yes, poetry is perhaps the most amazing form of technology ever created. It is the crystallization and the most powerful arbiter of change encapsu8lated in another technology that already does a good job of that. Poetry changed language. Swiftly. And by doing so it enables our very ways of being to be rapidly rewritten, no, reimagined, re-desired, recycled, repurposed, redirected. If there's any doubt about this, look at the one-word poem going around America that is actually changing everything so quickly. No one questions it, no one debates it. That one word poem, a meta-poem really, is "Change." And it's bigger than its author-purveyor, Barack Obama.

ag said...

Patrick, that was one thing I was trying to address in my comments, but I didn't do a very good job of it, which is to ask if we are talking about techne or technology, and poesis and poetry, and in which sense(s) of the words.

Advertising has had a much larger and more profound effect on language, culture, society, and billions of people than poetry.

"Finnegan's Wake," maybe, but not poetry.

And Barack Obama certainly did not author the meta-poem "change." That meta-poem goes back to the beginning of time -- if there is such a thing.

What he's purveying is what politicans hawk: bullshit, snake oil, lies, and empty/meaningless words used to evoke emotion.

Clinton, Bush Sr. & Jr., Obama, and all the rest are "merely errand boys, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill." -- Colonel Kurtz, Apocalypse Now"

Chris said...

Advertising has only had an effect on "language, culture, society, and billions of people" because of its use of poetry!

Or, are you trying to define poetry in such a way that it excludes such tainted contexts?

What he's purveying is what politicans hawk: bullshit, snake oil, lies, and empty/meaningless words used to evoke emotion.

That sounds like as good a definition of poetry as anything!

ag said...

Chris, aiiight! I agree with you on that one! We are but pseudo psychoactive toads in the grand scheme of techne hawking hallucinogenic tryptaminic poetry!

Dale said...

Jeff Walker's work in recent years looks at the origins of rhetoric and poetics, and may be of some use to this discussion:

Jeffrey Walker, Rhetoric & Poetics in Antiquity (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2000).


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Image source: Seth Kaller, Inc.

“Lincoln Cottage was where much of the Emancipation Proclamation was drafted and reflected upon by President Lincoln, and it thus now seems among the most fitting places for this historic document to be displayed to the public,” Rubenstein said. “The Emancipation Proclamation is one of the foremost symbols of freedom in our nation’s history,” said Erin Carlson Mast, Director of President Lincoln’s Cottage. “By viewing this rare copy of the proclamation at the very site where Lincoln thought through these nation-changing ideas, visitors will be able to gain a deeper understanding of the global and cultural importance of what took place at President Lincoln’s Cottage.”

President Lincoln developed the Emancipation Proclamation while living at the Cottage in the summer of 1862, making it the authentic place for understanding Lincoln’s ideas on slavery and emancipation. President Lincoln’s Cottage, the “cradle of the Emancipation Proclamation,” is offering programs, special tours, and events in partnership with national organizations to commemorate the 150th anniversary of Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation.

The Emancipation Tour

This tour explores Lincoln’s road to emancipation, a process that started with what he referred to as his “school of events” and culminated at the Cottage-when the opportunity and political will of a wartime president came together in a way that forever changed this country. Tour launched September 22, 2012 and offered on Tuesdays and Saturdays at 3:00 pm.

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text:
Beautiful Cairo-Dock Gets an Update

The latest version of this beautiful dock can be downloaded from Softpedia

Cairo-Dock, a fast and customizable desktop interface which can be used as alternative or addition to Unity, Gnome-Shell, Xfce-panel, and KDE-panel, is now at version 3.3.2.

Cairo-Dock is probably the best of its kind on the Linux desktop and works in a large number of environments, including Unity, Gnome-Shell, Xfce-panel, KDE-panel, LXDE, and even Cinnamon.

Highlights of Cairo-Dock 3.3.2:

• A workaround has been implemented for Chromium and Google Chrome web apps;

• The launching animation has been improved;

• The option to disable the “opening animations” has been added in Animated-icons' settings;

• A tiny memory leak that occurred when stopping Gmenu has been fixed;

• The translations files from Launchpad have been imported.

A complete list of new features and changes can be found in the official announcement. Download Cairo-Dock 3.3.2 right now from Softpedia.

Hot right now  ·  Latest news

1 Comment


text:
Buy Tickets Give Today Photos Shop
Ellis, Sherman Earn All-Sun honors

Wednesday, August 31, 2005

Lipscomb women's tennis player Emily Ellis and men's tennis player Mike Sherman earned All-Atlantic Sun Conference honors. Conference coaches made the selections.

Ellis, the No. 1 player on the women's team, was named to the All-Freshman team. Ellis is from Georgetown, Ky.

Sherman was named second-team All-Conference and also was named to the All-Freshman team Sherman, from Richardson, Texas, was 15-6.

Lynn Griffith completed his 17th season as the coach of both teams.


text:
extend your network and attract opportunities!Let me ask you this:

– Do you want to get more clients coming to your business?

- Are looking for new stimulations?

- Would you like a better lifestyle?

- Did you ever feel like you are “stuck” where you are?

- Are you looking for a new job?

There is one answer that can lead you to anywhere you want to go: Create New Opportunities!

If you are reading these lines I am sure you are an ambitious person who has achieved things in life and has more goals to fulfil in the future.  As one you probably want more opportunities to keep fulfilling your life and business goals!

Networking is key to new opportunities

You know what fascinates me in this life? It is the fact that every person we meet, every new situation we are in, can potentially unlock an ocean of new opportunities for us! Thankfully networking skills are the key to get to know people and form relationships that make both sides want to help one another.

To create more opportunities one needs to extend his network and get to know more people – this is a proven fact by academic researches. The good news is that there are so many ways to meet new people and here are effective ideas you can start implementing today:

1) Start a new hobby – Think about something you really enjoy doing and start doing it. Join a sports team or a sports club (golf, bicycle riding, dancing. etc.) Arts, poker and more… You will surely find some like-minded people to share the fun with and even make business with later on.

2) Study something new- enrol for a course in a field that interest you. This is a great way to get to know new people and learn about new topics that can come useful.

3) Join a professional industry organization- Industry organizations can benefit you since you get to meet fellow professionals and influential people within your industry.

4) Reconnect with old friends- I am sure that you have lost touch with great people along the years. Old lost friends that you have experienced fun moments with in the past. Make a list of people you would like to get back in touch with and set a meeting with them. These are people that already know and respect you, a fact that increases the chances they would not hesitate to help you when you ask for it and vise versa!

5) Create a Linkedin Group- Open a Linkedin group that focuses on a topic you specialize in or find interest in. Invite people to join the group, comment regularly and manage that group. That will position you as a know how in the chosen topic and will attract new people to you.

6) Join a networking group- These type of groups hold meetings on a weekly basis.  You will get to know new people that are dedicated to help other members to get referrals and new clients. These groups will help you to build strong relationships, sharpen your networking and self-presentation skills, and get more clients if you will stick with a group for a long period of time.

7) Attend networking events- Networking events, professional conferences, or exhibition, chamber of commerce events and the like, are great ways to meet new people as everyone is there for that same purpose!

8) Volunteer- Find a charity, organization or even an event and ask to volunteer and get involved. By doing so you will help others and feel amazing about that, and will get to know new and different people, and you can never know where that will lead.

9) Contribute to your community- Join a community club and start being active within your town and contribute with love. Sometimes great opportunities are just too close for us to notice them… So here is your chance.

10) Organize an event- The event can either be professional or targeted to your group of friends. Make sure the people you invite will bring their colleagues or friends along. That way, you will attract new people that would love talking to you, as the host. This is a great way to get to extend your network in a light, fun atmosphere.

Take Action and extend your network

Read the list above again and again and choose which way is best for you to extend your network and do it now! Use this momentum to make that phone call or enrol to that course, RSVP the upcoming event but just do something NOW, and new opportunities are on their way to you!

And of course share what you did in the comment section below. I really want to know what your favorite way is.

If you find this article useful, please share it with your friends.

Until next week,

Loving this content? Sign up for more… It’s FREE!


text:
This librarian overdressed: Never!

Meet Tessa, Seattle librarian and loaded with style. Her influences include: " Ballenciaga, the character Emma Peel on the Avengers, an unknown actress named Deanna Lund who was in the show "Land of the Giants".
Her best fashion advice- "Be daring! Dress out of your comfort zone. Don't even think about being over-dressed or under-dressed. Always opt for over-dressed!"

She can't lift as much as the "strongest librarian," but check out the photos--


text:
LISNews Features

Tell Us: "Why did you choose librarianship?"

Over the next week or so I’d like to try and assemble audio answers from as many people as possible to our favorite question: "Why did you choose librarianship?" Stephen will stitch them all together and release a podcast at some point in the next few weeks.

I’d very much like to make this an audio project. To leave an answer to be included in the podcast, there are a few ways you can go.

If you are in the US, you can call 646-495-9201, enter extension 61340, and leave your answer.

If you are outside the US, or just want to use your computer, you can upload an MP3 file using the upload tool located on the podcast page

Be sure to tell us who you are and where you're calling from. You need not provide us with your entire bio, just something simple is fine if you’d like to remain private: "Hi, this is Blake calling from western New York and I chose librarianship because..."

LISTen: The Podcast -- Episode #29

This week's episode is posted early due to recurrent broadband outages being experienced by the production team. The team felt it best not to wait on posting as it would be better to be early rather than late. Hopefully this improves.

The episode this week has the second part of the interview with author David Weber as well as a book review in Tech for Techies.

Taxonomy upgrade extras:

The future of libraries - No MLS Needed?

Christopher Kiess takes a look at the future of libraries in this original essay.

The future of libraries – it’s a topic at many conferences and one that always seems to generate conversation and debate. It’s not a new topic. But given the changing nature of information, it is worthy of exploration. Recently, I entertained a discussion amongst librarians on the Web4Lib listserv. And as usual, there were the familiar cries of dissent from both the proponents and opponents of change. However, most of the arguments did little to address the primary question I posed – can we save ourselves?

I can hear the rumbling in the crowd already and am sure to have my head on a pike by noon at the hands of a mob of librarians. But, I think we are obligated to closely examine our profession as it is defined and consider how we might meet the demands of the future through changing our skill set. Rather than simply defending what we do or what we claim to do, why not examine our educational programs as well as the major trends in our field?

LISTen: The Podcast -- Episode #28

This week's episode is different from the usual fare. The thread holding this together is: "Authors You Didn't Hear at ALA Annual 2008". Authors David Weber and Piers Anthony were interviewed this week. Interviews ranged from talking about their works to how they view libraries to the future of books. The interview with David Weber is being presented in two parts with the remaining portion to air on a future episode. Both authors raised unique points when it comes to determining authorial intent relative to exposing children to their own works that might be otherwise objectionable.

LISTen: The Podcast -- Episode #27

After an unplanned break, LISTen returns slightly earlier than anticipated! This week's episode includes an interview with author Scott Douglas as well as a commentary and a new installment of Tech for Techies.

Related links:
Website of Scott Douglas
Website of Erie Looking Productions
Website of Podango

Taxonomy upgrade extras:

And now a word...

The audio file contains a special message relative to the podcast this week.

Taxonomy upgrade extras:

LISTen: The Podcast -- Episode #26

This week's episode talks about television, Usenet News, and online video-sharing.

Taxonomy upgrade extras:

LISTen: The Podcast -- Episode #25

This week's episode features an interview by the podcast audio production engineer with Blake Carver as well as a commentary on the seemingly nebulous yet rather important topic of resilience. [EDIT AT 2132 PDT]
Taxonomy upgrade extras:

LISTen: The Podcast -- Episode #24

This week's episode brings an interview with Revision3 CEO Jim Louderback about a recent Denial of Service incident they suffered. Another installment of Tech for Techies talks about lessons learned from the Revision3 incident and begins a discussion about the need to consider infrastructure. Although the production team is aware of the incident at Softlayer that not only affected multiple LISHost clients not to mention the Volokh Conspiracy group blog, this episode is not covering that.

Taxonomy upgrade extras:

LISTen: The Podcast -- Episode #23

This week's episode, while having somewhat of an AM radio feel due to the compression happening, brings an interesting mix. Interviews with librarians K. G. Schneider and Kathryn Greenhill are included in the episode. A commentary about Twitter comes in near the end with a unique suggestion that perhaps OCLC should buy Twitter out. Even though posted slightly late, this Memorial Day weekend edition of LISTen has plenty packed inside.

Related links:

Taxonomy upgrade extras:

Subscribe to LISNews Features


text:
List entry

List entry Summary

This building is listed under the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990 as amended for its special architectural or historic interest.

List entry Number: 1189077

The building may lie within the boundary of more than one authority.

County District District Type Parish
Greater London AuthorityHounslowLondon Borough

National Park: Not applicable to this List entry.

Grade: II*

Date first listed: 14-Aug-1953

Date of most recent amendment: Not applicable to this List entry.

Legacy System Information

The contents of this record have been generated from a legacy data system.

Legacy System: LBS

UID: 202467

Asset Groupings

This list entry does not comprise part of an Asset Grouping. Asset Groupings are not part of the official record but are added later for information.

List entry Description

Summary of Building

Legacy Record - This information may be included in the List Entry Details.

Reasons for Designation

Legacy Record - This information may be included in the List Entry Details.

Legacy Record - This information may be included in the List Entry Details.

787/37/416 CASTLE WAY 14-AUG-53 HANWORTH Church of St George

Parish Church. Medieval and largely rebuilt by James Wyatt in c.1812; enlarged and remodelled in 1865 by S.S. Teulon in Gothic Revival, Decorated style. Masonry walls of greensand ashlar and other materials, Bath stone masonry details and tracery, polychrome slate roof. PLAN: nave, chancel, north chapel, north-east tower, north and south porches. EXTERIOR: Apsidal chancel with three arched windows within moulded hoodmooulds with carved angel label stops; carved eaves with trefoils and foliate supports; buttresses with crocketed finials. East window of three lancet lights below cinquefoil circle, flanked by two-light windows with cinquefoils; on south side, an additional two-light window with trefoil or quatrefoil circles, and a blind lancet window. North-east tower with broach spire with an adjoining transept. Five-stage tower supporting a broach spire with lancets on each side and a cruciform metal terminal. Arched and slatted belfry openings on each side below cornice table. Vestry door on the north side. Above is a slate clock face within a gabled aedicule with angel brackets. Buttressed north-east corner with door. Diagonal buttress to north-west corner carried on a moulded bracket at first floor level; attached to this is a flying buttress linked to a stone pinnacle. Adjoining the tower on the west side is a single-cell chapel with a steeply pitched slate roof: three lancet windows with cinquefoil circles set within moulded hoodmoulds with foliate label stops. Nave of four bays, divided by gabled buttresses, with moulded eaves brackets. North and south gabled porches: moulded arched openings enriched with doog-tooth ornament, carried on colonnettes with stiff-leaf capitals. Three windows to south side, two to north: each with similar tracery consisting of quatrefoils and trefoils over paired lancets. West front of masonry rubble construction with diagonal buttresses. Arched window within moulded hoodmould with carved head label stops. Window tracery, Decorated, consists of a circle with eight trefoils above two pairs of lancets surmounted with lobed trefoil. Round window in gable head above with three interlocking circles. INTERIOR: Hammerbeam roof with traceried enrichment above the collars, carried on angel-decorated corbels; diagonally set pitch pine ceiling to chancel and nave. Nave with complete set of pews. Fittings include the following. Stone reredos with serpentine marble and felspar enrichment. Organ by Hill, 1888. Carved oak screen to the north chapel incorporating parts of former 1914 chancel screen by Wood and Ainslie. Octagonal oak pulpit of 1890 with carved reliefs. Wall tablets in chancel to Sir Thomas Chamber d.1692 and Lady Catherine Burgess d.1803; floor slabs in chancel to Aubrey, 5th Duke of St Albans d.1802 and Admiral Sir James Wallace d.1803. Stained glass panels in north chapel include two late C15 angels; the arms of the Crosby family (late C15)and Killigrew family (1606). Other stained glass includes: south chancel window of 1866 depicting the Raising of Lazarus and of Jairus's daughter; memorial stained glass of 1881 in south windows of nave; west window of 1883 by Clayton and Bell showing scenes from the Life of Christ. Modern screen across west end (1993) with inserted panels including 1625 arms of James I. History: first mentioned in 1293, the church was substantially rebuilt in c.1812 to Wyatt's designs re-using earlier materials. Teulon added the chancel, porches and tower, retaining the walls and remodelling everything else. Andrea Cameron, 'St George's Church Hanworth' (1981 church guide), English Heritage historians' reports by Andrew Saint (1991) and Richard Lea (2000).

Listing NGR: TQ1125071880

Selected Sources

Books and journals
Cockburn, J S, King, H P F, McDonnell, K G T, The Victoria History of the County of Middlesex, (1911)
Inventory of the Historical Monuments of Middlesex, (1937)

National Grid Reference: TQ 11250 71880

© Crown Copyright and database right 2015. All rights reserved. Ordnance Survey Licence number 100024900.
© British Crown and SeaZone Solutions Limited 2015. All rights reserved. Licence number 102006.006.

This copy shows the entry on 28-May-2015 at 04:53:45.


text:
Thursday, May 28, 2015
Browse Labs »
Sheet Music WordpressSheet Music Facebook

News and Views

May 26th

Aretha Franklin 20 Greatest Hits

It has been a long time since there was a collection of Aretha Franklin sheet music.  This new publication from Hal… read more

May 25th

Happy Memorial Day

Happy Memorial Day!  Stanton’s Sheet Music is closed today in observance of Memorial Day.  We will be back tomorrow… read more

May 27th

ITG 2015 - Columbus, OH

ITG 2015 - Columbus, OH ITG 2015 - Columbus, OH ITG 2015 - Columbus, OH… read more

May 27th

The Language of Music - NEW from Tim Seelig Music is the universal language. This… read more

Stanton's Discount
Stanton's Sheet Music

Stanton's has built a reputation as "The Sheet Music Specialists".

Can't attend one of our clinics? Visit Stanton's Virtual Workshop.

In just a few minutes you can have your favorite song printed and ready to play.

Stanton's Listening Library

Online Service for Music Educators.

Give Me Jesus

Title: Give Me Jesus

Voicing/Format: Handbells 3-5 Octaves
Publisher: Alfred Publishing Co Inc
Arranger: Mcfadden, Jane
Catalog #: 19633
Grade: 3 Price: $3.50

See More…
Give Me Jesus joins two African spirituals, Thuma Mina and Give Me Jesus. The performance notes offer options for percussion instruments including Bongos, S hakers, Claves, and Hand Drum. This piece is especially appropriate for occasi ons celebrating diversity and racial harmony.
Permanently Out of Print
i-Link Sound File
Sound Files Unavailable for Purchase due to Copyright Restrictions


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[Gnu-arch-users] Help with firewalled box

From: Ron Parker
Subject: [Gnu-arch-users] Help with firewalled box
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:59:40 -0500

I have a box on which I can archive-mirror to get a copy of my main
archive from its main mirror. I do this regularly and delete the
=meta-info/mirror file locally so I can commit locally.  The issue is
that there is no way for this box to write back out to my main mirror,
whose only write mechanism is ssh. This box only has access to the Net
via an http proxy.

Is there a way to easily gather up just the locally committed
changesets, move them to my main development machine, integrate those
changesets into my main archive and then archive-mirror them back to
the main mirror from there?

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[Gnu-arch-users] Re: New to arch/tla, a few questions ?

From: Andreas Rottmann
Subject: [Gnu-arch-users] Re: New to arch/tla, a few questions ?
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:44:15 +0100
User-agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux)

address@hidden writes:

> Hello !
> I never used any versionning system yet. I have discovered Arch some days
> ago, and was very interested in using it for a PHP/Mysql application.
> I read the docs at, then installed a Debian on an
> old 266Mhz, apt-get tla tla-tools tla-doc.
> Now I just have one question : I created some test archives, but I am now
> unable to delete them !
Deleting an archive is simple: rm -rf /path/to/archive/location

> I saw on the mailing list archive I just had to type
> tla archive-fixup after deleting file... but I just got an I/O error, having
> deleted the whole archive's directory...
What exactly did you do and what did you want to achieve? I can't
really tell from this.

> I was searching for an Arch forum but couldn't find one. Do these questions
> have their places in that mailing list ?
Sure, just be a bit more verbose/exact.

> Else, might you give me another way to ask them ?
Well, there is also the #arch IRC channel on FreeNode.

Cheers, Rotty
Andreas Rottmann         | address@hidden      | address@hidden | address@hidden      | GnuPG Key:
Fingerprint              | DFB4 4EB4 78A4 5EEE 6219  F228 F92F CFC5 01FD 5B62

Latein ist das humanoide Äquivalent zu Fortran.
   -- Alexander Bartolich in at.linux

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Re: In regards to defining GNUstep and Window Maker

From: Alex Perez
Subject: Re: In regards to defining GNUstep and Window Maker
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:46:17 -0700 (PDT)

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 address@hidden wrote:

> Greetings,
> It has come to our attention that GNUstep developers and users may be
> somewhat confused as to the relationship of Window Maker and GNUstep.
> This confusion seems to have resulted in the GNUstep project posting a
> webpage that casts the Window Maker project in a negative light.

I suppose that's subject to interpretation. The wording is not the nicest
in the world, and I don't think anyone is opposed to changing it to be
less confrontational, since that is not our objective.

> While the statement "official GNUstep window manager" is not accurate, it
> was at one point in time.  Over the last several years, the GNUstep
Yes, but it is not anymore and has not been the case for years. Yet the WM
still says this is the case. We don't want excuses, we just want it
changed. It's not an attack on WindowMaker. I use WindowMaker (wm2,
actually) and frankly most GNUstep users do too.

> project has indicated that it doesn't want to be tied to a window manager,
That's correct, there's nothing about GNUstep that fundamentally ties it
to any window manager.
> and communication and cooperation between the two projects has faltered
> since.  We are guilty of not keeping our website up-to-date on this change
> of events.  However, our intention has never been to cause confusion or
> purposely promote misinformation, and we would like to promptly correct
> the situation.
All our intention is is to clear up misinformation. There have been
several high-profile cases where people have made uninformed statements
about "GNUstep" being used when in fact all it was was WindowMaker. This
is bad for both of us, and it's in our mutual best interest to clear up
the confusion.

> We would like to propose a mutal exchange of text that can be used to
> define what our projects are, and what, if any, relationship they have to
> one another.  We will update our website to reflect the fact that Window
> Maker includes support for GNUstep applications, but that it is only one
> of several window managers that do so.  It will be made clear that Window
> Maker is not supported or endorsed by the GNUstep project in any way.  In
> addition, we'll put up any text you want to give us that describes the
> GNUstep project.
Well, I wouldn't say we don't endorse it, at least to a limited extent,
since all the screenshots at include it, as well as the fact
that many (most?) GNUstep users do in fact use WindowMaker (and recommend
it to others)

> In exchange, we request that the page given above be modified with the
> following text describing the Window Maker project:
> "Window Maker is an X11 window manager that mimics the elegant look and
> feel of the NEXTSTEP[tm] user interface.  It is "aware" of applications
> written for the GNUstep Desktop Environment, allowing for a more seamless
> integration with the desktop.  Window Maker is not a standalone desktop
> environment or coding framework, and is not endorsed or supported by the
> GNUstep project in any way."
We would like to try to avoid using subjective terminology such as
"elegant" in a description of WindowMaker, since plenty of people think
it's extremely ugly (Im not one of them but I understand what thir
complaints are.)

> As for the Window Maker logo, it is a deviation of the GNUstep logo (a
> version from the logo contest that the GNUstep project rejected), and
> we obtained permission to use it from the GNUstep project and artist a
> long time ago.  This was back when the GNUstep project favored Window
> Maker, and our project was the only window manager that included GNUstep
> support.  If the GNUstep project would like us to change our logo to
> avoid confusion, we will be happy to so, given a reasonable amount of
> time.  I suspect it would take us several months before we could come up
> with a new logo of our own.
I think it would definately be good to have the WindowMaker project use a
different logo. The GNUstep logo is displayed rather prominently in the
about box which you get when you click the dock. The differences you
describe are trivial and I'd wager that 99% of all people out there are
not going to even notice the difference.

> For the record, we would like to point out that our project and website
> has done nothing but help to promote the GNUstep project over the years.
> There was a time when Window Maker was the only window manager that
> included GNUstep support, and the GNUstep project used to/still does share
> some Window Maker libraries (such as libwraster/wrlib).  We would have
> hoped this good will would have resulted in the GNUstep project privately
> contacting us to discuss any issues, prior to painting our project as the
> "bad guys".
While you may see it this way, I, *personally* do not. I say this as
someone who did not start using GNUstep and WindowMaker until several
years ago. (three, I guess, now). I understand clearly that there was a
time when this was the case, but it is no longer and the future is now. I
don't think we've painted anyone at the "bad guys" and frankly that's not
the objective. You are reading far too much into our rather simple and
innocent request. We wish only that GNUstep be identified correctly
instead of confused because of the identical use of logos and other such

Alex Perez webmaster team.

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[Help-gsl] compile with static GSL(1.4) libraries: G++(3.3) OS X(10.3.5)

From: John Gehman
Subject: [Help-gsl] compile with static GSL(1.4) libraries: G++(3.3) OS X(10.3.5)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:37:30 +1100

Hello All,

I'm having some problems sorting out compiling problems: I tried to provide my boss with an executable (which uses GSL) that I compiled on my OS X (10.3.5) iBook (via g++ -o myprogram -lgsl -lgslcblas mycode.c, and works fine on my machine); she also has a recent iBook, although I'm not certain it's the same OS X version/update. The error she gets trying to run it says something to the effect of "can't find libgsl.o.dylib ..." I presume this means that I need to include static versions of the gsl libraries when compiling, and I can't work out how.

I've tried:
--including the -static flag {and get "/var/tmp//ccetJK2B.s:1328:FATAL:incompatible feature used: directive .non_lazy_symbol_pointer (must specify "-dynamic" to be used)" } --recompiling my gsl-1.4 with "./configure --disable-shared" , but the executables are exactly the same size following compiling. The -static flag does the same thing as before. --including the explicit libgsl.a and libgslcblas.a paths as just more source code when compiling, and I get ld: Undefined symbols: then a list of every gsl function and construct I use. --including the explicit and paths as well and get ld: /usr/local/lib/ bad magic number (not a Mach-O file) (and same for libgslcblas).
--including -static-libgcc (no effect)

Obviously I'm flailing, trying an incoherent smattering of all the little snippets I can find that appear to address the issue. Has anybody compiled code on their machine and ran it elsewhere (where gsl was not loaded)? How?

Thank You!

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[mythtv-users] Jarod's HOWTO for FC3

match at ece.utah.edu match at ece.utah.edu
Wed Dec 29 21:37:14 UTC 2004

On 29 Dec 2004 at 9:26, Matt D. Robinson wrote:

> As I said before, I'm trying to help figure out what's broken.

Good, Jarod and Axel welcome feedback. They'll converse with you directly if you want,
just realize that they have a life outside of MythTV, so they might not answer
immediately. Allow them a day or two to respond.

> If it can be fixed, then I'm all for it (and I'm doing rebuilds
> now to try and see what happened).

Also good. We are a community. I'm anxious to see what you learn. I wish that I were
able to devote more time to getting MythTV to run on FC3.
> I don't believe in "put up or shut up" -- if it's broken, someone
> should say something, and people (including me) should try and help
> fix it.

Yes, clearly the writeup in Jarod's guide worked for him, and just as clearly some of us
are running into snags. It's broken for me, but not for Jarod. That's OK, report your
findings here and we'll all take a stab at it. Even KnoppMyth won't work for me... such is
life... and this is the exact same hardware that ran MythTV on FC1 for months with nary
a whimper, so go figure. Hmmm... Come to think of it even getting it to run on FC1
using Jarod's guide was not a slam-dunk the first time around.

Someone, I don't know if it was you, Matt, stated that the guide should be taken offline. I
don't believe that the author of that remark intended it to be taken the way it was by the
"communuity:" It ruffled a lot of feathers for no good reason. I'm sure that it was made in
the frustration of the moment, but suggesting that the guide should be taken offline is
WAY over the top. (on the part of whoever said it) In fact the "put up or shut up" remark
was a knee-jerk as well. I'm sure the author of that remark didn't intend it the way it
sounded either.

I wish Jarod and Axel could devote a day or two to focus all of their attention on the
guide and the RPM's. For that matter I'd bet that Isaac would welcome a WHOLE DAY,
but that ain't going to happen unless someone were to send them each a couple of
hundred bucks, along with all the goofy hardware that we try to make it run on, so that
they can take a day off of work to play with MythTV.

Meanwhile, we have one heck of a good starting point in the form of Jarod's guide,
which is now in it's 3rd generation and almost works.

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text:
[mythtv-users] Looking for a cheap PCMCIA card

Joseph A. Caputo jcaputo1 at comcast.net
Mon Feb 28 16:02:05 UTC 2005

On Sunday 27 February 2005 2:01, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2005 at 09:08:35AM -0500, Joseph A. Caputo wrote:
> > I don't know of any PCMCIA tuner/capture cards.  The only TV tuners
> > are
> > typically PCI or USB.  USB tuners are currently not supported in
> > Myth,
> > though hopefully they will be someday soon.
> USB DVB tuners would work fine. I guess you mean USB analog tuners.

Right, analog tuners... the OP is using cable, so I presume a DVB tuner
is not an option.

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text:
[mythtv-users] More Digital Audio Q's

Steve Adeff adeffs at gmail.com
Mon Nov 28 13:02:45 EST 2005

On Monday 28 November 2005 05:23, David wrote:
> Michael T. Dean wrote:
> > Steve Adeff wrote:
> >> This is a feature I love, so I'm going to look into these boards and
> >> see what the linux support is for this feature. hopefully just
> >> setting up another asound output will let me do this with MythMusic
> >> while leaving TV and MythVideo output alone =)
> >
> > Oh, and thanks for the reply.  You have no idea how out-of-kilter my
> > entire world would have been if passthrough didn't mean passthrough
> > (on Linux, at least :).
> Can I summarise as:
>  Digital or SPDIF signals will (provided the setup is correct) be passed
> through most/all soundcards (including onboard) without (detectably)
> impacting the sound quality.
> David

Compressed digital signals (DD/DTS) will be passed through all soundcards
through SPDIF with no change in the signal when a passthrough mode is used.

Uncompressed digital signals (PCM) may or may not be altered when being passed
through SPDIF depending on the output chip used on the sound card regardless
of passthrough mode.

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text:
scram69 scram69 at gmail.com
Tue Jun 24 04:11:19 UTC 2008

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 6:50 PM, TJ Harris <tjharris at weaselworkz.com> wrote:
> I have an odd problem on my Mac Mini, Mac OS X 0.21-fixes, frontend.
> The HD video plays back somewhat zoomed in, and I can't figure out why
> or how to fix it.   The effect is that occasionally scenes will look
> strange, or part of a person will be hidden because of the zoom.
> Otherwise, it's just the station logo that gets cut off.
> I checked all the overscan and zoom settings, then I reset the
> settings on my Mini (changed the frontend name) and started from
> scratch, but the problem persisted despite the clean settings.     I
> also ran Myth Frontend on my MacBook Pro, and it didnt have the issue
> at all there,  so it's not a source video problem.
> The display is a 720p LCD panel, connected via DVI.
> Has anyone else run into similar issues and have some suggestions for
> settings to tweak?

I have an OSX mini connected to a 720p flat screen (DVI->HDMI) and can
view HD without a problem.  What resolution does your Mac report for
the LCD?
I guess I'd have to agree - it sounds like it may be a setting on the
LCD.  I'm assuming the MBP was not connected to the LCD for playback.
What happens if you try to use the MBP connected to the TV?

Oh- I'm running 0.21, not fixes, as I can't find a working OSX binary
for 0.21-fixes.  I'm assuming you compiled MythFrotend yourself?

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text:
Pander pander at
Tue May 19 13:05:48 CEST 2009

Klaus 'mrmoku' Kurzmann wrote:
> Am Dienstag 19 Mai 2009 12:43:25 schrieb Johny Tenfinger:
>> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:41, Helge Hafting <helge.hafting at> wrote:
>>> Johny Tenfinger wrote:
>>>>> uBoot splashscreen
>>>> If you are using SHR from microSD an Qi, you can use that bootsplash
>>>> when whole system is booting just in just 2 steps:
>>> Is it necessary to boot off the microSD? I have SHR in the internal
>>> flash, as it fits nicely there.
>>> Helge Hafting
>> With Qi - yes (unless you recompile Qi with other boot options).
> doesn't Qi check for /boot/append-GTA02 on flash too?
>> With u-boot - no, but you have to add "loglevel=0 splash" to bootargs.

Can default Qi be rebuild that displaying the splash screen is
independent from where you boot?

>> _______________________________________________
>> Openmoko community mailing list
>> community at

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text:
WLAN status update

Andy Green andy at openmoko.com
Mon Jan 12 09:44:33 CET 2009

Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| Andy Green wrote:
|> maxperf is one of those names that makes you wonder why it isn't the
|> default.
| Alas, maximum performance also means maximum power burn:
| 				System battery current (*)
| AR6k module disabled:		135.2mA
| AR6k with default settings:	139.2mA
| wmiconfig --power maxperf:	260.7mA
| (*) At 4.0V lab supply. USB current limit set to 100mA.
| Oh, and I just noticed that wmiconfig --wlan disable is affected
| by --power maxperf. So to properly cool down, we also need to
| --power rec.

It seems like it is turning off ieee80211 powersaving mode (the AP
beacon dropbox system) in order to have that kind of impact.

I guess it means reported problems can be to do with the AR6001 or the
AP firmware in powersaving mode.

|> | I thought --power was mainly affecting latency, so I didn't expect
|> It sounds more like it impacts TX RF power level.
| That may at least be part of it, yes. But it looks more like a
| whole group of things. I hope Atheros can clarify.
|> It's like an on / off switch Werner.
|> Surely it doesn't have that many complicated decisions to ponder and
|> discuss :?)
| Well, you've seen the discussion on linux-wireless. The issue is
| precisely that what we have is not the simple on/off switch rfkill
| expects to find but more like a Rube Goldberg apparatus.
|> | clear that most issues are connected to the frozen access point list.
|> | I can reproduce this problem, even if it sometimes takes a while.

I don't think rfkill itself has much expectation except to stop the
transmission action.  It doesn't care how we're doing that or what
residual power is pulled at DC.  So the plan would be collect a set of
IOCTLs from shell that stop transmission and send the thing to a low
power mode additionally, and do the guts of those IOCTLs for rfkill

|> What does pulling and re-inserting the modules do for this issue?
| It resets the whole WLAN subsystem, so it clears the stuck list.
| So do suspend/resume or unbind/bind. This means that we have a
| number of work-arounds if it should turn out that the frozen list
| is some firmware feature we can't solve.
| However, I'd rather avoid this sort of work-around where you either

Sure it's a hack.  But, it is simple to explain to a user with the issue
in the meanwhile.

- -Andy
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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text:
Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-buildservice (327 mails)

< Previous Next >
Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Re: Retrieving package version numbers
  • From: Guido Berhoerster <gber@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 21:58:06 +0200
  • Message-id: <20110404195806.GE4508@wopr.local.invalid>
* Adrian Schröter <adrian@xxxxxxx> [2011-04-04 16:59]:
That's unfortunate, is there any reason why this cannot be made
publically accessible?

Yes, the api is for developers in first place. We do not want to have
random load (and some requests can create a lot load) on our server
without control about it.

So we may abadone /public and ask our remote instances to use at login
at some point of time.

The information can already be obtained
as described in my intial mail, although that is quite a kludge
and inefficient as it requires several instead of a single

Just create a user and use /source directly. If that user creates too
much load we can block it and talk back to you in that situation for
a solution.
Otherwise we do need to block entire IPs or access
to /public in general.

I don't think it is currently possible to create per-application
accounts which are not bound to a person but can be distributed
with an application, is it?
Guido Berhoerster
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Follow Ups


text:
Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1698 mails)

< Previous Next >
Re: [opensuse] A request to Attachmate/Novell
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Michael S. Dunsavage
<mikesd1981@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

So what you want is for some of us to subscribe to YET ANOTHER list to
mentor newbies? This list does fine helping the new comers when the new
comers put in the time to try to at least learn and experiment and try to
understand instead of expecting them to be catered to or spoon fed.

Since Ubuntu can do then why not us? But I understand that Canonicals
Ltd. is a more rich company which could do this... However, at the
same time, I feel openSUSE is better than Ubuntu. I wish openSUSE were
as rich as Canonicals so that even the newbies could have been
supported with a technical list concerned more to them....Hmm, as I
said, I would look at: fourms, thanks.
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text:
[PC-BSD Testing] First impression of PC-BSD snapshot with Xorg 7.5.2

Arthur Koziol A-Koziol at neiu.edu
Fri Mar 2 09:36:21 PST 2012

I just installed the x86 snapshot on an Optiplex 960 and man is it
snappy. I'm blown away by the responsiveness of menus and desktop
overall. OpenGL is amazing now.

I didn't have the issues disk issues Mehmet had so not sure what's up
with that. The new installer takes some getting used to and isn't as
intuitive as the previous one was but it's very slick looking. I know
the KMS/DRM work is ongoing but they've made insane progress. Super
kudos on the work done already.

This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com

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text:
WGLC review of p1-messaging (editorial stuff)

From: Dan Winship <dan.winship@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 07:15:10 -0400
Message-ID: <508FB6BE.1070401@gmail.com>
To: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
> 1. Introduction

>    The Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) is an application-level
>    request/response protocol that uses extensible semantics and
>    MIME-like message payloads for flexible interaction with
>    network-based hypertext information systems.

Removing the word "hypertext" from the last line would make this a
more accurate description of present-day HTTP. Likewise a bit later

>    HTTP proxies and gateways can provide access to alternative
>    information services by translating their diverse protocols into
>    a hypertext format that can be viewed and manipulated by clients
>    in the same way as HTTP services.

> 2.2. Implementation Diversity

>    Likewise, requirements that an automated action be confirmed by
>    the user before proceeding can me met via advance configuration

typo: "can *be* met"

> 2.3. Intermediaries

>    Many implementations depend on HTTP's stateless design in order
>    to reuse proxied connections or dynamically load balance requests
>    across multiple servers.

"load-balance" should have a hyphen (otherwise it's easy to misparse
as being about loading "balance requests")

> 2.4. Caches

>    There are a wide variety of architectures and configurations of
>    caches and proxies deployed across the World Wide Web and inside
>    large organizations. These systems include national hierarchies
>    of proxy caches to save transoceanic bandwidth, systems that
>    broadcast or multicast cache entries, organizations that
>    distribute subsets of cached data via optical media, and so on.

Since this section is entitled "Caches" and all of the examples are
about caches, it might make sense to remove the words "and proxies" in
the first sentence.

> 2.6. Protocol Versioning

>    However, the minor version was not incremented for the changes
>    introduced between [RFC2068] and [RFC2616], and this revision is
>    specifically avoiding any such changes to the protocol.

Change tense? ("has specifically avoided")

> 2.7.1. http URI scheme

>    If the host identifier is provided as an IP literal or IPv4
>    address,

We don't import the "IP-literal" and "IPv4address" rules from 3986, so
this would make more sense as just "provided as an IP address".

>    received with an empty host, then it MUST be rejected as invalid.
>    If the port subcomponent is empty or not given, then TCP port 80 is
>    assumed (the default reserved port for WWW services).

should "WWW" be "HTTP"?

>    Senders MUST NOT include a userinfo subcomponent (and its "@"
>    delimiter) when transmitting an "http" URI in a message.

would read better if the "and" was "or" IMHO

Also, taken literally, this rule prohibits even transmitting an HTML
page containing a link with a userinfo subcomponent. Maybe:

   Senders MUST NOT include a userinfo subcomponent (or its "@"
   delimiter) when transmitting an "http" URI in the request-line or
   header section of a message.

[Mark just commented on this in his review too but suggested "in a
request-target". Not sure if the restriction was meant to include
headers as well...]

>    the deprecated subcomponent is being used to obscure the authority
>    for the sake of phishing attacks.

Should "phishing" be defined/cited?

> 2.7.2. https URI scheme

>    distinct origin servers. However, an extension to HTTP that is
>    defined to apply to entire host domains, such as the Cookie
>    protocol [RFC6265], can allow information set by one service to
>    impact communication with other services within a matching group
>    of host domains.

"can allow" sounds like permission. I'd say "might allow" (and maybe
even explicitly state that it really SHOULD NOT?).

> 2.7.3. http and https URI Normalization and Comparison

>    Likewise, an empty path component is equivalent to an absolute
>    path of "/", so the normal form is to provide a path of "/"
>    instead.

Except that an empty path is not equivalent to a path of "/" in an
OPTIONS request sent to a proxy...

> 3.1. Start Line

>    In theory, a client could receive requests and a server could
>    receive responses, distinguishing them by their different
>    start-line formats, but in practice servers are implemented to
>    only expect a request (a response is interpreted as an unknown or
>    invalid request method) and clients are implemented to only
>    expect a response.

This is new text, and given that there will not be an HTTP/1.2, is
there really any reason to add it?

> 3.2. Header Fields

>       Note: The "Set-Cookie" header field as implemented in practice
>       can occur multiple times, but does not use the list syntax,
>       and thus cannot be combined into a single line ([RFC6265]).
>       (See Appendix A.2.3 of [Kri2001] for details.) Also note that
>       the Set-Cookie2 header field specified in [RFC2965] does not
>       share this problem.

The Kri2001 citation doesn't add anything now that we have a canonical
Set-Cookie spec in RFC 6265. Likewise, there's no point in citing RFC
2965 since it's now obsolete.

> 3.2.1. Whitespace

>      OWS            = *( SP / HTAB )
>                     ; "optional" whitespace
>      RWS            = 1*( SP / HTAB )
>                     ; "required" whitespace
>      BWS            = OWS
>                     ; "bad" whitespace

The quotes around "optional" and "required" don't serve any purpose.
(The ones around "bad" can either go or stay, depending on whether you
think BWS is bad or just "bad".)

> 3.2.2. Field Parsing

>    A field value MAY be preceded by optional whitespace (OWS); a
>    single SP is preferred.

"MAY" and "optional" are redundant. "A field value is preceded by
optional whitespace..."

> 3.2.4. Field value components

>      qdtext         = OWS / %x21 / %x23-5B / %x5D-7E / obs-text
>      ctext          = OWS / %x21-27 / %x2A-5B / %x5D-7E / obs-text

It seems weird to use "OWS" here rather than "HTAB / SP".

> 3.3.3. Message Body Length

>        If this is a response message received by a user-agent, it
>        MUST be treated as an error by discarding the message and
>        closing the connection.

"user agent" does not have a hyphen.

>    5.  If a valid Content-Length header field is present without
>        Transfer-Encoding, its decimal value defines the message body
>        length in octets. If the actual number of octets sent in the
>        message is less than the indicated Content-Length, the
>        recipient MUST consider the message to be incomplete and
>        treat the connection as no longer usable.

The only way the sender could have sent fewer than the indicated
number of octets would be if it closed the connection early, in which
case telling the receiver to "treat the connection as no longer
usuable" is hardly necessary. Maybe:

     If the sender closes the connection or the recipient times out
     before the indicated number of octets are received, then the
     recipient MUST consider the message to be incomplete and treat
     the connection as no longer usable.

>        If the actual number of octets sent in the message is more
>        than the indicated Content-Length

This is impossible by definition; any octets after the indicated
Content-Length are not part of the message.

>        the recipient MUST only process the message body up to the
>        field value's number of octets; the remainder of the message
>        MUST either be discarded or treated as the next message in a
>        pipeline. For the sake of robustness, a user-agent MAY
>        attempt to detect and correct such an error in message
>        framing if it is parsing the response to the last request on
>        a connection and the connection has been closed by the
>        server.

As above, "user agent" shouldn't have a hyphen, but it should be
"client" here anyway, shouldn't it?

Maybe replace the whole paragraph with:

    For the sake of robustness, a client MAY assume that any
    additional octets after the indicated Content-Length in the
    response to the last request on a connection were intended to be
    part of the message body.

> 5.3. Request Target

We explicitly say not to include userinfo when using origin-form:

>    A Host header field is also sent, as defined in
>    Section 5.4, containing the target URI's authority component
>    (excluding any userinfo).

or authority-form:

>    When making a CONNECT request to establish a tunnel through one
>    or more proxies, a client MUST send only the target URI's
>    authority component (excluding any userinfo) as the
>    request-target.

but we don't say anything about userinfo when using absolute-form.
I guess 2.7.1 already forbids sending a userinfo there but it still
seems inconsistent to not say it here. (Alternatively, if 2.7.1's
restriction is only supposed to apply to request-target, then we could
remove it there and specify it in each case here.)

> 5.4. Host

>    If the authority component is missing or undefined for the target
>    URI, then the Host header field MUST be sent with an empty
>    field-value.

5.1 defines "target URI" as being an absolute URI, and http URIs
always have an authority component, so this requirement seems

> 5.7. Via

>      received-protocol = [ protocol-name "/" ] protocol-version

protocol-name and protocol-version aren't defined yet. Forward ref?

> 6.1. Connection

>    When a header field is used to supply control information for or
>    about the current connection, the sender SHOULD list the
>    corresponding field-name within the "Connection" header field.

Isn't that a MUST?

>      Connection: close
>    in either the request or the response header fields indicates that
>    the connection SHOULD be closed after the current request/response
>    is complete (Section 6.2.5).

Likewise. (6.2.5 seems to agree)

> 6.2. Persistent Connections

I'd mentioned this before on the list, but all the intro text here
except for the final "HTTP implementations SHOULD implement persistent
connections" is really only of historical interest and could just go
away. The "SHOULD implement" requirement could be moved into "6.2.2
Reuse", and then each of the subsections of 6.2 could be promoted up
to become a direct child of section 6. So you'd get:

  6.  Connection Management
  6.1.  Connection
  6.2.  Establishment
  6.3.  Reuse
  6.3.1.  Pipelining
  6.3.2.  Retrying Requests
  6.4.  Concurrency
  6.5.  Failures and Time-outs
  6.6.  Tear-down
  6.7.  Upgrade

> 6.2.2. Reuse

>    A server MAY assume that an HTTP/1.1 client intends to maintain a
>    persistent connection until a close connection option is received
>    in a request.

> Retrying Requests

>    Confirmation by user-agent software with semantic understanding of
>    the application MAY substitute for user confirmation.  The
>    automatic

"user agent" shouldn't have a hyphen. (This one is inherited from
2616; 2068 was consistent, but the hyphenated form started creeping in
in 2616.)

> 6.2.5. Tear-down

>    A server that receives a close connection option MUST initiate a
>    lingering close of the connection after it sends the final
>    response

This could use a "(see below)" since "lingering close" hasn't been
defined yet.

> 7.6. Upgrade Token Registry

>    The HTTP Upgrade Token Registry defines the name space for
>    protocol-name tokens used to identify protocols in the Upgrade
>    header field.

They're used in the Via header field too... (Should the registry be
renamed to "Protocol-name Token Registry"?)

> 8.4. DNS-related Attacks

>    Clients need to be cautious in assuming the validity of an IP
>    number/DNS name association unless the response is protected by
>    DNSSec

"DNSSEC", not "DNSSec"

> A.1.3. Introduction of Transfer-Encoding

>    Proxies/gateways MUST remove any transfer-coding
>    prior to forwarding a message via a MIME-compliant protocol.

This seems like it would fit better in p2's "Appendix A. Differences
between HTTP and MIME".

> A.2. Changes from RFC 2616

We probably want to double-check these sections against the issue
tracker before final publication, but one particular thing that stuck
out to me as missing is the addition of the CONNECT rule and removal
of the multipart/byteranges rule from Section 3.3.3.
Received on Tuesday, 30 October 2012 11:17:01 UTC

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text:
Re: HTML is a declarative mark-up language

From: L. David Baron <dbaron@dbaron.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:37:06 -0800
To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Cc: Jirka Kosek <jirka@kosek.cz>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20090129233706.GA26236@pickering.dbaron.org>

On Thursday 2009-01-29 23:30 +0000, Ian Hickson wrote:
> So you are asking for a link saying "Common attributes" linking to:
>    http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#global-attributes
> ...to be added to every element's definition?
> I've so far tried to avoid redundant links like that.

I think that's actually quite useful, since it makes it a good bit
easier to use the spec as a reference, and to understand parts of
the spec by exploring from a piece in the middle.

L. David Baron                                 http://dbaron.org/
Mozilla Corporation                       http://www.mozilla.com/
Received on Thursday, 29 January 2009 23:37:46 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Wednesday, 7 January 2015 16:25:27 UTC


text:
Re: VoiceXML

From: <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 13:07:54 -0400
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Message-ID: <852568EA.005E1C58.00@d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com>

VoiceXML is an XML-based markup language for distributed voice
applications, much as HTML is being used as a language for distributed
visual applications. VoiceXML is designed for creating audio dialogs that
feature synthesized speech, digitized audio, recognition of spoken and
telephone keypad tone (DTMF) input, recording of spoken input, telephony,
and mixed-initiative conversations. The goal is to provide voice access and
interactive voice response (e.g. by telephone, [cell or landline], PDA, or
desktop) to web-based content and applications.

It is not designed for providing accessibility to the page that shows up in
the graphical browser, but to a different view - a voice interactive view -
of web-based content.  The idea is that important "content" will show up in
both the graphical browser and the VoiceXML application, but with the a
differently designed user interface - one for the graphical browser and one
for the phone.  Many VoiceXML application designers will insure that one
can use the application without the use of a smart screen phones that might
tempt them to rely on the tiny screen for feedback because many will want
to use a regular old phone with all the "smarts" on the server.

VoiceXML is being defined by an industry forum, founded by AT&T, IBM,
Lucent and Motorola, established to promote the Voice eXtensible Markup
Language (VoiceXML). VoiceXML brings the power of web development and
content delivery to voice response applications, and frees the authors of
such applications from low-level programming and resource management. It
enables integration of voice services with data services using the familiar
client-server paradigm, and it gives users the power to seamlessly
transition between applications. The dialogs are provided by document
servers, which may be external to the browser implementation platform.

Other accessibility issues from the deaf and hard of hearing [such as using
a TTY device] and the mobility impaired [ease of using the phone keypad]
have not been discussed as far as I have read.

Phill Jenkins
IBM Accessibility Center - Special Needs Systems

"Charles F. Munat" <chas@munat.com>@w3.org on 05/24/2000 01:59:03 AM

Sent by:  w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org

To:   "WAI Interest Group \(E-mail\)" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject:  VoiceXML

Hello all,

I am doing a research paper (due in a week) for a class on computational
linguistics. The subject of my paper is VoiceXML. I'd like to include a
discussion of the importance of VoiceXML wrt accessibility. I would
appreciate help from any interested parties. I am interested in the

1. URI's of related sites/documents. I've searched all of voicexml.org and
have downloaded the IBM voice server kit (more on this below). None of this
talks about accessibility (unless I've missed something).

2. URI's of any related beta software I can test. I've already got the IBM
voice server.

3. OPINIONS. Got one? Tell me what you think and if it's useful, I'll quote
you in my paper.

4. Anything else you think would be of help.

Re the IBM voice server, I've heard it works on Windows 2000, but it
to install on my computer (my system "fails" the prereqs). I'm running W2K
advanced server. Anyone else get this to work?

Thanks in advance for any help. Please feel free to respond off-list if
comments don't relate to accessibility.

Charles Munat,
Seattle, Washington
Received on Thursday, 25 May 2000 13:13:34 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Wednesday, 7 January 2015 16:08:36 UTC


text:
WAI Report on http://www.wishlist.com.au

From: <wai-report@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:26:23 -0400 (EDT)
To: skgoh@utas.edu.au
Cc: wai-report-db@w3.org, wai-report@w3.org
Message-Id: <20031020062623.DBCC722C47@wiggum.w3.org>

This message comes to you from the W3C WAI (World Wide Web Consortium
Web Accessibility Initiative) report tool at http://www.w3.org/WAI/report.

URL: http://www.wishlist.com.au
Date: Mon Oct 20 02:25:03 2003

Your web site has been found to have to one or more accessibility problems.
This is not an automatic evaluation. This message is the result of an
individual's review of your page or site (refer to the cc: field). This
person experienced difficulty accessing your page either due to a disability
(visual, auditory, physical, or cognitive) or due to device limitations
(poor connection bandwidth, no support for graphics or support turned off,
a voice interface such as a webphone, etc.). Please consider their comments

The reviewer found the following accessibility problems with your
page or site. Each item is followed by a link to relevant information
in the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 (that you can find at

     Missing or inappropriate alternative text for an Image or Animation
          (Refer to Checkpoint 1.1)
     Missing text links for a server-side Image Map
          (Refer to Checkpoint 1.2)
     Missing "title" or "name" attribute on FRAME
          (Refer to Checkpoint 12.1)
     Complex FRAMESET without NOFRAMES
          (Refer to Checkpoint 6.5)
     Complex TABLE unreadable when linearized
          (Refer to Checkpoint 5.3)
     Unexpected auto-redirect to another page
          (Refer to Checkpoint 7.4)
     Missing "alt" attribute for SCRIPT/APPLET
          (Refer to Checkpoint 6.3)
     Missing structural elements (H1-H6, UL, OL, etc.)
          (Refer to Checkpoint 3.5)
     Invalid HTML
          (Refer to Checkpoint 11.1)
     Moving/blinking text
          (Refer to Checkpoint 7.2)
     Misuse of structural markup for layout (e.g., UL or BLOCKQUOTE to indent text)
          (Refer to Checkpoint 3.6)
     Uninformative hyperlink text (e.g., "Click Here")
          (Refer to Checkpoint 13.1)
     Missing long description for graphics
          (Refer to Checkpoint 1.1)
     Missing caption/transcript for Audio/Video
          (Refer to Checkpoint 1.3)
     Missing means to skip multi-line ASCII art
          (Refer to Checkpoint 13.10)
     Color contrast insufficient
          (Refer to Checkpoint 2.2)
     Page inaccessible and no alternative page available
          (Refer to Checkpoint 11.4)

Your name and the url of your page, along with the names of other
page reviewed using this tool, have been entered in a W3C WAI database
that we maintain (currently implemented as an archived mailing list
visible at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-report-db).

Please take the time to review this report and take action
on the problems reported. If you have questions, please notify us
at mailto:wai-report@w3.org, so that we can re-evaluate your page.

Note. These comments were made by someone who visited your Web
site who may not be affiliated with W3C or the WAI. For this reason,
WAI does not take responsibility for the accuracy of this report nor
the comments made in the report. For more information about the W3C
Web Accessibility Initiative please visit http://www.w3.org/WAI.

From an anonymous reporter
using the W3C WAI Accessibility Initiative Report Tool
Received on Monday, 20 October 2003 02:26:32 UTC

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text:
Re: dollar sign in CSS variable

From: Matitiahu Allouche <matial@il.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:04:38 +0200
To: "Kang-Hao (Kenny) Lu" <kennyluck@w3.org>
Cc: WWW International <www-international@w3.org>, www-international-request@w3.org
Message-ID: <OFB2C71034.218AFBA1-ONC2257837.002C4E85-C2257837.002C6B96@il.ibm.com>
I see no particular problem producing the dollar sign with the Hebrew

Shalom (Regards),  Mati
           Bidi Architect
           Globalization Center Of Competency - Bidirectional Scripts
           IBM Israel
Received on Monday, 14 February 2011 08:05:53 UTC

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text:
Re: DRYing up media queries

From: Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 17:19:12 -0700
Message-ID: <CAAWBYDDwWJkjUeVZKx5Ka=23QrYUgcQGwf=EpdUHFFvLqtP9wg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Chris Eppstein <chris@eppsteins.net>
Cc: "L. David Baron" <dbaron@dbaron.org>, Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws>, Simon Sapin <simon.sapin@exyr.org>, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Chris Eppstein <chris@eppsteins.net> wrote:
> Instead of being media-specific, it could be a type of variables that are
> more sass-like and replaced at parse time instead of run-time.

Yes, we'll need lexical variables at some point anyway if we do mixins
with arguments.  Once we do that, we can use the same mechanism for
stylesheet-wide variables.

Received on Wednesday, 29 May 2013 00:20:02 UTC

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