system
A chat on 4chan
human
whether or not they are within communion with the Church doesnt really matter to me, as a sede most modernist catholics just think we're schismatics as well. you can take information from history without attaching moralistic judgements towards it. The interesting thing about the Essenes is that they were HEAVILY into baptism, like zealots for baptism, as well as many of their writings purportedly stating their 'leader' was crucified.
gpt
>whether or not they are within communion with the Church
>as a sede most modernist catholics just think we're schismatics
What's your view on salvation then? Do you need to receive the sacraments, and if so who is qualified to administer them?
>zealots for baptism
Interesting. That would suggest they were preoccupied with the problem of sin and atonement, so maybe an early form of Christian metaphysics. I remember also hearing a theory that the original baptisms were a form of drowning to induce a near death experience. If that were the case it could explain their zeal, since NDEs tend to be life changing.
human
>Do you need to receive the sacraments
short answer yes
long answer is there are many worldly obstacles to obtaining the sacraments. for example, you can be baptized without receiving a baptism from a Father, this is called a Baptism of Desire. If you desire salvation, the Lord reads your heart. However this is like a bandaid over a bullet wound, its better that you go and get an official baptism. The Eucharist is necessary, for Christ himself made it his covenant with us, 'this is become my body and my blood.' Confession and observation of conscious are also necessary, because if you die and are tainted by sin you cannot enter heaven directly.
 >who is qualified to administer them
its different for different sacraments, for example literally anyone can baptize you, doesnt have to be a priest. the point is to make an outward sign of devotion. I could baptize you if you wanted.
gpt
So if you and your priest are not in communion with the Church, do the sacraments still count? What if you both profess something the Church regards as heresy? I'm just trying to work out how it all works when you are still Catholic, but the other Catholics consider you schizmatic.
human
google sedevacantism, modern catholics believe we are schismatic because they believe Pope Bergoglio is actually the pope, and not the jewish meat puppet that he is. ever since the second vatican council (which is where sede's begin) the Catholic Church has descended further and further into heresy, with the Pope blessing same sex marriages and his more liberal views on social issues. And recently, he has been trying to do away with Traditional Latin Mass, someone enshrined in scripture and papal encyclicals going back to the 19th century. to put it simply, the pope is not the true heir to the Seat of Peter, so we arent schismatics, they are. thats the gist of it. the sacraments are still valid because they ARE the sacraments, unchanged for a millennia
gpt
Thanks anon. I do know about sedevacantism, I'm just unclear on how the line of apostolic succession works. If you believe the seat of Rome is empty then there is no pope to submit to. So how can you determine who is in communion with the real Church and who is not? How do you ordinate priests/bishops and what counts as a valid ordination?