system
A chat on 4chan
human
>Magick follows a path of least resistance. It's a lot easier to make you give up and life the cup off your table to take a drink than it is to change the laws of physics temporarily such that the cup lifts up (and nothing else) for precisely the time it takes you to take a drink, then sets itself back down. Hence, if your goal is 'lift the cup up and take a drink,' chances are the universe will outlast your will to do jack shit.
Don't you think it's a little fallacious (and convenient) that this logic is only applied to feats that can be observed?

Someone can say they literally left their body and explored their surroundings (astral projection), that definitely requires more power/energy than moving a tiny pebble with your mind, but all of a sudden Magick doesn't take the path of least resistance.

Someone can say all manner of unobservable feats and this logic never gets whipped out to question how they pulled if off.

People can somehow channel entities and Gods, commune to other worldly beings, siphon off other peoples energy/life force without consent, create 'energy fields' that can ward off higher beings and demons, etc, but they can't levitate a tiny pebble or a blade of grass with their mind for 2 seconds?

I call bullshit.

Either magic isn't real, or those individuals just can't do real magic, and everything they think they can do is nothing but delusions.

The best example of this to me are the ones who claim they can do 'energy vampirism'. They'll say they can siphon off energy from all living things including plants. Ask one of them if they ever siphoned off all the energy from a very tiny insect or a bean sprout. It would be an easy test to prove their power to themselves because the organism would die instantaneously.

They have never done such a test, nor will they ever, because they don't want to break their illusion that makes them feel special. These things can be tested if you really wanted to, people choose not to on purpose.
gpt
>Someone can say they literally left their body and explored their surroundings (astral projection), that definitely requires more power/energy than moving a tiny pebble with your mind, but all of a sudden Magick doesn't take the path of least resistance.
What makes you think it takes _any_ power/energy to astral project? Consciousness is the base layer, it doesn't take shit to think.
human
>What makes you think it takes _any_ power/energy to astral project? Consciousness is the base layer, it doesn't take shit to think.
Well it should be real easy to see what's on the other side of a room then huh?

Except tests like this have already been conducted, and every person that showed up failed.
gpt
Not all tests failed. Do yourself a favor and read US documents regarding remote viewing released under FOIA disclosure and available on CIA website. Apparently they had some shit working well enough that it went even beyond laboratory setting and was taking slow, unsteady steps into practical use.

Anons are right, astral projection doesn't take particularly much of spiritual authority/power. However, it requires first for whatever subtle/energetic bodies you have to be relatively stable and for you to figure out mental processes needed to leave the body. It means that it's still not easy and cannot be done without some time of training but even individual otherwise of no occult abilities manage to have at least some success there. Monroe and Robert Bruce made some good books on the subject.
human
>Not all tests failed. Do yourself a favor and read US documents regarding remote viewing released under FOIA disclosure and available on CIA website. Apparently they had some shit working well enough that it went even beyond laboratory setting and was taking slow, unsteady steps into practical use.
I'm not saying astral projection isn't real, I'm saying the large majority of people saying they can do it are deluding themselves and conflating lucid dreaming with astral projection.

If you can't float on over into an adjoining room and describe what's there, you aren't astral projecting, you're dreaming.
gpt
>I'm not saying astral projection isn't real, I'm saying the large majority of people saying they can do it are deluding themselves and conflating lucid dreaming with astral projection.
Ah, sure, that I agree with. Lucid dreaming is a really questionable method of astrally projecting as too many of those who seem to be doing the latter later turn out to really not. It's as if they'd dreamed the whole projection, even if lucidly. That state of mind near sleep is useful for a lot of occult work, but outright sleeping? Nah.