system
A chat on 4chan
human
After experiencing the vibrations that are commonly referred to, I can feel both an a physical body and a body formed by the consciousness. But say in trying to raise my arm made of consciousness in the air, in order to do so I inevitably have to exert enough effort where it becomes like moving my physical arm. Is this sensation of relating the manipulation of the astral body with that of manipulating the physical body a common experience or is this the sign of an incorrect attempt of AP?
gpt
>Is this sensation of relating the manipulation of the astral body with that of manipulating the physical body
Yes. Moving your astral body should feel the same and just as effortless and natural as moving your physical body, basically you just have a bunch more limbs to operate. You'll get it down with practice as you better learn to separate and make use of your astral body independent of your physical one.
>I inevitably have to exert enough effort where it becomes like moving my physical arm
It's not about exerting effort and force, it's about naturally getting a feel for the other body and easing into using it. Just practice. Some anon here gave a good tip about using/imagining using your phantom limbs to touch and grab stuff while you're awake, like right now if you have a glass on your table or while you're lying in bed and have a bedside table, try to feel your astral limb going out and touching the table and everything on/around it.
human
>try to feel your astral limb going out and touching the table and everything on/around it.
Let's suppose I'm laying down meditating in bed and attempt this. Would it be as me just opening my eyes, getting up and touching the glass and when I look back seeing that my physical body is still in the bed to confirm the projection? Or would it be my eyes still closed in meditation focusing on the glass I wish to interact with and simply seeing it while meditating and being able to look back at myself?
gpt
I think we're talking about slightly different things here. What you're describing is the Kreiter/imagination form of AP, you can basically get into deep meditation then feel and experience yourself getting out of your body in your imagination, doing stuff, and with practice this should lead to full on OOBEs.

What I'm saying the other annon was recommending to is just sit down, you don't even have to close your eyes or meditate, and feel your astral limb moving off from your physical hand, touching stuff in front of you. This is the kind of astral movement you will eventually want to do to get out of your body and separate once in deep meditation, if you want to go the 'separation' path.
With the first one you can basically start projecting a part of your consciousness and exploring right away, building up your astral body and concentration until eventually you will fully be there (and be projecting there), the second one you don't move any further until you fully separate and that's where you concentrate your efforts, on learning to put your body to sleep and separate completely.
human
This maybe a bad question or one based off of an incorrect notion but how does one confirm the separation?
>and feel your astral limb moving off from your physical hand, touching stuff in front of you.
Should this merely be me imagining the sensations of moving the arm and feeling the object or if I do it correctly would I 'physically' see, when I say physical I don't necessarily mean with the eyes as a sensory input but getting the same level of detail as the eye would give you(more detail than mind's eye visualization), the astral arm grasp the object and feel the accompanying sensations
>you fully separate and that's where you concentrate your efforts, on learning to put your body to sleep and separate completely.
In the vein of my last question would this be confirmed by my astral projection literally being able to observe my physical body, leave the room and gather information from the outside world, or even if inaccurate being able to experience everything as I would normally but without my physical platform. Or are the experiences dulled to imagination?
gpt
>experience everything as I would normally but without my physical platform. Or are the experiences dulled to imagination?
Yes, that is the principal difference between the 2 approaches.

With the separation techniques, you may spend a long amount of time before you actually separate, but when you do, you're fully there. The experience might not be as vivid and might feel dreamlike, that should get better with practice and meditation work but honestly we don't really know yet what specifically causes some to be dreamy while others are fully realistic and how to guarantee them to be the latter (other than being literally brain dead for a while, NDEs are nearly always hyper-realistic).
With the 'Kreiter' technique, you don't have to spend weeks learning to put your body to sleep and to separate, but the trade-off is that until you get good enough, the experiences will be more akin to daydreams and imagination, though eventually they both meet and you'll be able to literally 'be there' using this one as well.

I fear I may not be able to do either of them justice here, if you're up for a bit of reading, Astral Dynamics (2nd ed.) covers the regular separation side and related stuff pretty well, while John Kreiter's Out Of Body Experiences, Quickly and Naturally covers the 'Kreiter' technique nicely. 
(Both authors have some 'controversial' views you might not share, don't get put off by those, the techniques and explanations they teach are the important part).
I personally would recommend starting with Kreiter as it's a much shorter read but still packed with very interesting information.