I'm having this debate about religion with a friend on a forum.
He insists that religion is not only a good way of maintaining a
moral society but it the only way to do it effectively. He also
states that a moral upbringing void of mythology together with
the law cannot come close. Anyway I'm a little stuck now.  How
would you reply if someone said:  what im trying to say is, any
ordinary reasonable man knows that killing is immoral, whether
he is Christian, Muslim or from some random tribe. Let us call
this natural (basic) morality - are there enough moral
consequences for the ordinary reasonable man not to commit acts
which go against this natural morality for his own sake?  No.
The reason? They still do it even when bound by religious
morals, let alone when only bound by such natural morals.  and
the last part obviously applies because you are speaking about
the complete uselessness of religion, and how we would be better
off without it. Using that same argument, you could remove
nation states, because at