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The Chapter Sura Fil (Elephant) of the Quran Written Long Before the Advent of Islam

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Why the story contained in Sura al-Fil of the Qura could not be historically true, which Muhammad likely copied from pagan poetry, and why this story turns Allah into a supporter of idolatry...

Islamic legends tell us about this chapter, i.e. Sura al-Fil, of the Quran that there was an historical event transpired before Islam and Allah saved His house from marauders, who had a big army along with elephants, and were rushing toward His house (Kaaba in Mecca) to destroy it completely. But they failed to succeed in their mission as Allah toppled their army, by sending martins and birds, clutching pebbles in their claws and beak, to throw upon the army of Abraha; this destroyed them before they could reach their destination. Muslim scholars in the world are at consensus and agree with this fairytale and accept it as a historical event.

The criteria of this story will be judged on the behavior of elephant’s daily life and the reason why this story had been added in the Quran.

Geography and Climate of the Arabian Peninsula

Most parts of Arabia are bleak deserts and desolate, and ripples of sands extend beyond the horizons. Deserts have many moods: it may become vicious, menacing and treacherous like a turbulent ocean. Whole caravans of men, camels and horses are said to have disappeared in it, as if devoured by the cruel and hungry sands.

On the other hand, its climate varies on the temperature that seldom falls below 42° C, but relative humidity is usually more than 85% and frequently 100% for extended periods. Sometimes, sandy wind blows are unbearable, especially during summer. Its terrain remains fruitless and barren most of the year due to lack of rain. A uniform climate prevails in Najd, Al Qasim Province, and the great deserts. The average summer temperature is 45° C, but readings of up to 54° C are common. The heat becomes intense shortly after sunrise and lasts until sunset. Unfortunately, there is no any famous lake or river in entire peninsula like Euphrates and Tigris in Mesopotamia (present Iraq) and river Nile in Egypt had enhanced a remarkable feature in their glorious civilizations. Thus, it is not difficult to understand why the Arabs failed to play any significant role in creating a civilization.

This was the main reason the Arabs were mostly illiterate. Those, who knew to read and write, were considered elite and most revered by their clans. Poetry was their hobby in order to attain some fame and applause by their listeners.

Elephant’s Behavior and their Diet

First of all, elephants are considered to be the largest and heaviest animals or mammals on earth. Its gigantic figure always catches the eye of spectators. Elephants have also been used in wars and battles in olden days. For example, when Alexander the Great invaded India, the inhabitants, to fend off their opponents, brought giant elephants to put psychological pressure on their opponents. Indian kings often sat on elephants as they led their army to battles.

It is said that elephants require about 68.4 to 98.8 L (18 to 26 gal.) of water daily, but may consume up to 152 L (40 gal.). An adult male elephant can drink up to 212 L (55 gal.) of water in less than five minutes. They also eat between 149 and 169 kg (330-375 lb.) of vegetation daily. Sixteen to eighteen hours, or nearly 80% of an elephant’s day is spent eating. Elephants consume grasses, small plants, bushes, fruit, twigs, tree bark, and roots.


Given this geography and climate of Arabia at that time, where water was scarce, isn’t it strange that someone would want to use elephants, which require water excessively, to destroy the Kaaba? Can a sane person believe the story that from a long distance, under the scorching sun, the army of Abraha on elephants was coming to invade Mecca or Kaaba?

The historical background of Sura il was to induce the importance of Kaaba and their gods or goddesses. Consequently, many tribes fought with each others on the issue of their gods or in other words, insulting their religions. However, the event of elephant, mentioned in the Quran, was never been transpired anywhere. This was a fable and fairytale to make up mindset of the pagan Arabs. Poets of their time were much impressed by the gigantic size of elephants, but they did not know that the arid terrain of Arabia was not suitable for elephants. The pagan Arab poets did not see or heard about animals larger than elephants. Thus, in order to exaggerate the might of their god Allah or whoever, they composed a poem that their God is almighty and can ruin the biggest thing (power) in the world.

The verses of chapter Fil is clear evidence that these lines have been formulated by man. The lines follow as [Quran 105:1-5]:

  1. Have you not considered, how your Lord dealt with the companions of the elephant?
  2. Did He not make their plan into misguidance?
  3. And He sent against them birds in flocks,
  4. Striking them with stones of hard clay,
  5. And He made them like eaten straw.

In these lines, the style of these verses is crystal clear that lines have been made by man to glorify the power of their god/goddess. Readers can observe from here that in some part of Quran Allah says, “I did this, I did that”; sometimes he says, “We did this””; but in these verses, they are going as: “Did he not…”, “And he sent…”, “And he made…” etc.

Had these verses would be revealed by any god, the verse would go like as follows:

  1. Have you not considered, how We dealt with the companions of the elephant?
  2. Did We not make their plan into misguidance?
  3. And We sent against them birds in flocks,
  4. Striking them with stones of hard clay,
  5. And I made them like eaten straw.

Now, the edited verses make some sense that it could be revealed by a real God.

Allah made another big blunder in this chapter of the Quran by destroying the army of Abraha in the time of pagan worship in Arabia, because by destroying the army of Abraha, who was coming to destroy the idols and polytheism in the Kaaba, Allah fully supported Polytheists of Mecca to continue in their idolatry and paganism.

It is obvious that Abraha was not interested in Kaaba or any cube-building, but he was coming to destroy the practice of idolatry and polytheism of the pagan Arabs, practiced since unknown time. Abraha and his army, it appears, were monotheists, and were determined to destroy Paganism from Mecca, but Allah intervened and destroyed their filthy plans.

Comments (46)Add Comment
logical and good story
written by logical and good story , May 12, 2010

logical and good story.

i dont udnerstand the unhealthy and fatalistic and fanatical devotion to monoatheism of
the falsehood believers-jews-christians and muslims.

why cant they let world live in peace.

jehova/allah did not created man from mud/dirt and send him from eden/heaven to earth.

man is evolved from 1 celled organisms and moved out of africa to the world.

also it is now scientifically proven that modern man has mated with
neandretals [ older human species ] bcoz genetic analysis proves it.

this means tehre were more than 1 species of humans.

judeo-christianity and islam r a big lie.the sooner its destroyed the better.
written by Machmoed , May 13, 2010
I liked it very much indeed. It's impossible for elephants as big as Mahmoud, the biggest elephant of abraha army, to cross the desert that far. Nothing but fairytales in poetic style.
Besides, if Abraha indeed succeeded in the journey from Jemen to Mecca, it means he was in favor of Allah/God because it would be a miracle.
More objective, please
written by Abu Taleb , May 13, 2010
I think we should be more objective and open minded. It is true that the temperature in Saudi arabia can reach more than 42°C, but in the winter it can drop to below zero during the night while the day, it may be around 10-20°C. The Arab desert is as dry as Sahara or Kalahari, I believe. I have traveled across the desert a few times and I saw some plants here and there. So if the travel were done not in summer, there were bigger chance of survive.

I don't know much about elephants, but from films on tv, seems like elephants can survive without water for days (or more). So I should say with enough supply, people can take elephants to reach Mekah.

The most unlogical thing in the verse is the existence of birds which could destroy a whole army by throwing stones. There is no such birds that can do such thing, and there was no indication that Islamic false god created such birds especially for the event.

The funny thing is that the Arabs had known that it was only a fairy tale because they accused Muhammad only repeating old tales in Quran. But the muslims believe it, they are really stupid.
written by vbv , May 13, 2010
Hahahahahahaha! Elephants used to invade Mecca? That is the biggest and the poorest joke I have ever heard. Mr. Khan is right about elephants'diet. Elephants cannot survive without water for days and go to war on an empty stomach. This clearly shows that islam is based only on lies, plagiarising and distorting from the Bible and other sources just to legitamise the fraud called Muhamad,the only so-called 'prophet' of this murderous and immoral cult.
I got your elephant
written by duh_swami , May 13, 2010
Hannibal brought elephants across the Alps to attack Rome...But the Alps are not the desert sands, so Hannibal may have had little problem feeding and watering them...there is no record of Hannibal using birds to bomb with stones...But there is a Bibical record of God throwing stones at Joshua's fleeing enemy. I always wondered why he did that since Joshua did not need any help...
So Arabian attack elephants and the dropping of rocks on the enemy are probably plagiarizer stories...Hanniba'ls elephants were real, the Arabian army of elephants is imaginary...
reply to logical and good story
written by Mat , May 13, 2010
logical and good story - you will never understand Islam if you conflate Allah/God.

Consider any other area of life do you confuse cats and dogs?

I believe that the National Geographic
written by tanstaafl jw , May 13, 2010
had a television special on the "Elephants of the Kalahari", but the Kalahari is not the Arabian desert. The elephants living the Kalahari had access to water and vegetation. The Qur'an is (among other things) a pastiche of tall tales, Jewish and Christian stories and the occasional story of Mohammed's numerous raids on caravans.
Hannibal's elephants
written by mhw , May 13, 2010
According to the oldest accounts, Hannibal had 37 elephants when he began to cross the Alps but ended up with only a few when he came down the Alps.

These accounts were written from 50 years after the events (in the case of Polybius) to 150 years after the event (in the case of Livy).
written by duh_swami , May 13, 2010

I don't doubt that, happens every time I travel with a herd of elephants...there are always some that can't make the trip...
Deaf or blind.
written by Reed Wilson , May 13, 2010
The curiosity of the posters of this thread is appreciable. This will shake the lethargy minds.

Quran encourages pondering and says.

وَالَّذِينَ إِذَا ذُكِّرُوا بِآيَاتِ رَبِّهِمْ لَمْ يَخِرُّوا عَلَيْهَا صُمًّا وَعُمْيَانًا [٢٥:٧٣]
Those who, when they are admonished with the verses of their Lord, droop not down at them as if they were deaf or blind;
May be!
written by Reed Wilson , May 13, 2010
May be there was only one elephant as bastion of infantry. Since this exotic was not found and seen in Arabia, it was for scaring people of Hijaz. These are war tactics.
May be.
written by pazookah , May 13, 2010
elephants cannot survive for more than one day without drinking water
In tests at the Thai Elephant Conservation Centre the fastest elephants reached a top speed of 18 km/h (11 mph)
distance between basrah and Mecca
1,238 kilometres
almost 3 days to reach mecca all elephants would be dead by the time it reaches mecca
hence quran is abig lie
Drinking water was plenty.
written by Reed Wilson , May 13, 2010
To pazookah. Drinking water was plenty.

I have heard of a battle of elephants between Alexander and someone at Jhelum in Pakistan.

We know that there are no elephants in Pakistan except in Zoos.

You are saying that the elephant will die.Quran also says the same. Did the elephant reached Macca? I think no. Abraha was in Yemen and he proceeded for Hijaz. I am notsure where he as intercepted or met the catastrophe.
Reed Wilson
written by Rationalist , May 13, 2010
Reed wilson, didn't you say before Quran alone is sufficient to explain everything and that we don't need tafsir. Why then here you are using sentences like "I am not sure" "I think so" etc?

will you be able to say for sure why those suras were told by mohammad? Can someone give tafsir for those verses?
Reed wilson- answers please
written by Rationalist , May 13, 2010
Mr Wilson, please revisit Ibn Kammuna's previous article 'was Badr a battle of Muhammad's highway robbery?'. You have not answered my questions there.


should muslims be friends of Jews and christians? why was this sura revealed?
jordan retro vi
written by jordan retro vi , May 13, 2010
written by Reed Wilson , May 14, 2010

You are justified asking above. By Tafseer I mean somebody's interpretation. By 'I think so' and 'I am not sure' I mean my own interpretation which you may disagree or agree.
It is individuals responsibility to understand the message. I dont prefer saying "according to Ibn Kathir" or the like. Allah will hod me responsible for accepting any "Ibne's" interpretation.

You do not agree with me.
written by Reed Wilson , May 14, 2010
Rationalist. I regret the repetition in above post.
why does allah need the spoils of war?reed
written by pazookah , May 14, 2010

Total Verses: 75
Revealed At: MADINA

SHAKIR: They ask you about the windfalls. Say: The windfalls are for Allah and the Messenger. So be careful of (your duty to) Allah and set aright matters of your difference, and obey Allah and His Messenger if you are believers

is allah a thief and robber why does he need spoils of war the supreme creator can have any he wants he doesnt need to kill murder and butcher for wealth
why does allah need the spoils of war?reed
written by Reed Wilson , May 14, 2010
To pazookah. You are asking. "why does allah need the spoils of war?reed". My reply is detained by the editor. It means Allah does not need any thing.
Needs of Allah.
written by Reed Wilson , May 14, 2010
To pakkooza. Allah says:
لَنْ يَنَالَ اللَّهَ لُحُومُهَا وَلَا دِمَاؤُهَا وَلَٰكِنْ يَنَالُهُ التَّقْوَىٰ مِنْكُمْ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ سَخَّرَهَا لَكُمْ لِتُكَبِّرُوا اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ مَا هَدَاكُمْ ۗ وَبَشِّرِ الْمُحْسِنِينَ [٢٢:٣٧]
It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches Allah: it is your piety that reaches Him: He has thus made them subject to you, that you may glorify Allah for His Guidance to you and proclaim the good news to all who do right.
written by bonu_quraiza , May 15, 2010
the bigest question how abaraha managed to crooss red sea with so many elephants? did he has a aircraft carrier like ship?
to Bonu_quraiza
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , May 16, 2010
Mr. Quraiza, do you know Mautand?

written by Machmoed , May 17, 2010
We're talking about the big african elephant here. The elephants of Hannibal (punic war) were the little bleu elephants, not the large elephant like Mahmoud. Even soldiers needed lots of fresh water, so those kind of elephants, it would be a miracle.

Besides Abraha wasn't stopped because of birds (these kinds of birds do not exist), but because of sickness (epedemic) during the travel to Mecca. Many soldiers got sick and Abraha decided to go back. No birds in flocks and no stones of clay or whatever.
to Machmoed
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , May 17, 2010
Mr.Machmoed, if this story is true, as you have told, it means Quran is absolutely a fiction and comic book of the 7th century. Like we see children they are amazed by Superman, Spiderman, and so on...

2 M.A.Khan
written by Machmoed , May 17, 2010
Indeed Mohammad.A.Khan, children but also some adults believe in the existence of superhumans like Hulk/Superman etc. or the possibility of being possible, like the possibility of travelling to Allah by a mule like horse like Buraaq or Pegasus. These grownups are jahil, like muslims.

We are told in traditional stories of how a tribe of bedouin turned an army backed by elephants into half eaten fodder! This battle should have been one of the decisive battles in the history of elephant warfare! Yet, the Islamic mark is made in elephant wars with the Battle of Qadisyyah.

"Aam-il Feel" is supposed to be the turning point in Mecca's history, and possibly the advent of Islam itself. Why would there be no mention of this battle when the Quraish tribe is supposed to have decisively won against Abraha's cavalry? Did he use any elephants at all?

In 636 AD the persians used elephants but these were not the big african elephant, it could be elephants from Asia. In this war the arabs didn't know what they saw and were for more than 2 days totaly confused. Why? it seems in 636 AD the arabs for the first time got to meet elephants.

Abraha's end: Historic tradition holds that he perished of illness contracted shortly after the failure of his military expedition to the Hejaz. Munro-Hay dates his death to some time after 553 based on an inscription.


Between 570 and 575 the pro-Persian group in Yemen made contact with the Sassanid king through the Lakhmid princes in Al-Hirah. No not the mountain. This mountain is based on this arabkingdom, but sssssst don't tell the muslims
Mahmood A Khan
written by RM.Akhtar , May 19, 2010
Your problem is that you believe in human knowledge, which is always polluted. its mixture of false and truth(History) so we do not have any reason to accept.
@ RM Akhtar
written by Machmoed , May 19, 2010
Is there any knowlegde wich is not human? History has to be backed up by evidence from that time. The problem is that noone knows what happenned between 600 AD till the end of 7th century. Even the jews and the cristians outside hidjaaz never heard of islam, nor that the arabs had an new religion or that they were propagating a new one.

Does anyone has devine knowledge besides the source? I don't think so. Could humans understand devine knowledge? I don't think so. Is it possible for humans to understand the eternal? No they can't. It is the same when i ask you to describe the universe and it's measures. No one can know this yet. It is the same with God...all the religions are merely theories to understand this source and the creation, but it is a theory. Then why are we going to be punished if we don't obey a theory. Does Allah not say in the qur'an: bring thy evidence if you're truthfull. Why do muslims ask for evidence, but lacking to give their own?

written by RM.Akhtar , May 20, 2010
human just have bestowed this ability by his creator to acquire knowledge so human does not have any knowledge. as regard history, its human endeavor to record the events of the previous generations where he is totally failed due to his lust for this material word. In other words his mostly negative and positive characteristic (his,wishes,wants,prejudices,partiality,whims,glorifica
tion,fears,greed,envy,respect,fame,and other traits and complexes) compel him to pollute truth with falsification. Time,place,person,even event become irrelevant at times in searching truth (knowledge). So such evidence always take us towards faulty convictions. therefore its advisable use logic,reasons,personal experiences,observations and practicability to attain conviction/belief not history,traditions,customs.
you have correctly state that "Does anyone has divine knowledge besides the source?" No body has.
Its is the most important question which we put to ourselves in many different ways. It is lake of knowledge and practical experience of us. There is a thing called fire and if you put your hand in it consequently your hand will be burn (it is theory)it become fact when we experienced it. so if we are unaware of the consequence (theory and the Fact)we will put our hand in the fire and get burn(we are punished) therefore human get punished because of our disobedience religious theory.
any way thanks for your email address which is duly noted.
written by Machmoed , May 20, 2010
A theory is no longer a theory when it is prooved again and again. The source gave us the instruments to see, to feel etc. We can feel fire is painful when we put our hand in it. But religion and that's the whole issue remains a theory because we are not capable of proving him by what we got from him (you can't compare the created with the creator and we are created). There is no evidence whatsoever that indicates a lord/ a god/ al ilaah besides scriptures. We also see through history that the concept of God changes and keeps changing. We see practices belonged to a certain time, are not valid anymore due to our evolvement (by God/nature himself/itself). But we also see that in this case muslims (majority) believe in backwarded ideas written mainly in sira's and hadith. If all these muslims can't see some evil practices in islam then it might be that Allah himself has shut their senses and that they are not a muslim at all in the sense of allahism.
written by noon , May 30, 2010
as we know prophet mohammed was born aproximately in the year 570 and he got the revealation at the age of 40 at aproximately 610,never heard in the written history about anyone of the people with or against mohammad who was living at that time denied this story , it was accepted by everyone (not to long from elephant day),give me an explaination
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , May 30, 2010
Mr/Miss.Noon, it was not a history but a poem written by an esteem pagan poet to express their feelings and emotions before Islam, and was recorded in their myths. Muhammad only followed the mission of copy and paste in his so-called revelation book Quran. It was not rejected by anyone either with or against Muhammad because his opponents believe that story to be true, as the part of their pagan religion.

On the other hand, Muhammad was spreading paganism in the name of monotheism. If Islam would be a momothiesm and their Allah would be the universal God, Quran, in chapter Nahal, verse 57, would never dare to say:

Translation: "And they attribute to Allah daughters - exalted is He - and for them is what they desire."

I have also wrote an article on this issue. you can review it on http://www.islam-watch.org/ind...&Itemid=58

written by noon , May 31, 2010
please if possible ,give a name of a such esteem pagan poet, if not, refer to any such poem,which i assume should be written in historical books, secondly i dont know if you have read the details of this myth as you say, in which some renowned people participated in it died after islam, some believed in mohammad and some did not,thats what iam talking about ,it was very close in time to the era of islam, third i think that there is no one proponent or opponent to islam would agree with you with idea that islam is not a true monotheism relegion ,thank you
written by yasmine , June 01, 2010
I am new to this site and try to read the articles and comments with an unbiased mind. There are Islamists, Islam bashers as well as rationalist. Most comments make sense, if you take into perspective each person's bias or lack of it. But this Reed Wilson person makes no sense at all!
to Noon
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , June 10, 2010
Mr/Miss Noon, I dont where my comments have gone, as you know I gave you the list of esteem pagan poets.

anyhow I tell you once again, that after Islam and the dictatorship of Muhammadanism, erased and eliminated all previous records and attributed to Muhammad and his holy book Quran. We can assume from historical background that Abdul Muttalib, the grand father of Muhammad, knew the event of the "people of elephants". And not only this but Abdul Muttalib also confirmed Abraha that Allah will save his own house (Kaaba). Now the question is, how did Abdul Muttalb know that there is true god Allah? did he also get revelation from Allah through Gibrael? I want explanation for this.

Secondly, there is no name of Abraha I found in Quran, but Abraham name has been recited in many times in the so-called holy book Quran. How do you know Abraha was the invader of Kaaba?

Have a nice day (but after leaving Islam)

written by Huda , November 07, 2010
I wonder why people get to believe anything bad said about Islam without searching for the truth even if it was such complete nonsense and jealousy from some people for this religion. Actually, there are not only true based facts based upon true stories in the Qur'an but there are also scientific facts mentioned in the One QUR'AN never changed or altered. I challenge any Arabic Guy to refute these facts. Check this site:


Does anyone here know Arabic? Check this site and refute what's mentioned in it, IF You Can...

What you are mentioning about elephants is completely naive and poor because these elephants were in Yemen which had lots of water resources not like the Arabian Peninsula, also they were huge, very few elephants!!! I guess the Yemeni leader would have afforded feeding them:))

Check Wikipedia (I guess Wikipedia is not lying also:)) :

written by Zarbo , November 08, 2010
Scientific Absurdities in the Qur'an and Hadith

To believe in the Qur'an is to not think rationally. There are numerous myths and scientific errors within the text of the Qur'an, and the Hadiths. Muslims accept many scientific absurdities with blind devotion. The world has matured as a whole, and has shed many of the fears and superstitions held by primitive cultures of the past. Unfortunately, because the text of the Qur'an is revered, people do not question many superstitious concepts that Muslims should have outgrown long ago.





For further scientific absurdities consider the following Hadith:

Sahih Muslim, Book 40, Number 6985:

Narrated AbuHurayrah:


written by Zarbo , November 08, 2010


Stories of non-living matter (rocks, etc) acting similar to living organisms is also found in the Qur'an. There are stories of mountains that have fear (Qur'an 33:72). Fear is an emotion which is caused by chemical impulses in the brain. Do the mountains, made a stone and dirt, have brains with these chemical impulses taking place?




Allah Exists
written by Waqar , March 12, 2011
Hello everybody. What is going on here. Quran is a way of living.
What Quran says
written by Waqar , March 12, 2011
Quran says that respect your parents and always ready to make a devotion to them. Dont throw a wrong sight on anyothers sister. Respect elders and love young ones. Always be patient. Plz read the whole Quran first and then give any comment plz
sun and earth
written by isam , September 04, 2011
by saying that the sun is toutching the earth you may not have understood,, the meaning of the verse,, try reading complete verse to get it all... you are missing huge of it.... please be a short commentor,, and use it countable not to be a phyloso... if you go to read just the meaning of the qura'n i am 1000% you won't get colse understanding it... as a matter of been so angry and talk from one corner to a different angle,,, as i have read all of your comments,,, based on only to talk bad agaisnt qura'an not that you really interested in gaining knowlege of what's in it, because you are going against something that you have no cleu about .....
written by Peter , November 24, 2011
I don't know if the story is true or not, but the reason given here against the truth of the story are not scientific and not significant enough. Arabia was warm, but still it had water. There were living people in Arabia. Several (as mentioned, 8) elephants cannot drink water more than couple of thousands of Abraha's army. The style of the verses also cannot be a reason to reject the story. Many verses in Quran are interpreted as God asks Muhammad to direct a question towards others. It means that (Muhammad ask them...Have you not considered, how your Lord dealt with the companions of the elephant? ....)
A reason that one can believe in the event is that in the history it is not mentioned that nonbelievers to Muhammad message denied the truth of event. It means it has been an event recently happened to them at that time, that their fathers or their old people still remembered it. That is why they couldn't say that event was not true, though they said Muhammad's message is not true.
written by BARRERA18Trudy , January 02, 2012
That is good that people can receive the mortgage loans moreover, that opens up new chances.
@ logical and good article
written by Cererum123 , January 03, 2012
Humans never "evolved" from a one celled organism. This type of evolution often called the General Theory of Evolution (from now on GTE) is actually quite impossible. In order for one organism to change into another it needs new information to be added to the DNA. Mutations and natural selection often touted as the "engine" of evolution ,either shuffles existing information ,remains the same ,or REDUCES the original information. This leads in the OPPOSITE direction needed for GTE. Also GTE is unable to account for the origin of life. Biogenesis states that life only comes from life. It is impossible for some "primordial soup" to be the source of this so called "simple one celled organism". GTE is actually a pagan Greek religion revived ,popularized ,and plagiarized by Charles Darwin(He stole a lot of his ideas from his grandfather ,the ancient Greeks ,and from one of his colleagues). You also need to take into account "Irreducable Complexity". This involves the fact that certain living beings and certain systems within living beings need to be complete and fully functional or the organism will die. A common mousetrap (the kind you often see in cartoons) will not work if even one of the parts is missing. The same often applies to living beings ,and since they had to start off with a fully functional system (not a slowly developing one like in GTE) this means that they had to BEGIN with these systems ALREADY in place. I suggest you research "Information Theory" ,and "Irreducable Complexity"

@ Machmoed

Christianity is not a theory to understand the Creator ,but a direct relationship with Him. He revealed Himself to us in several ways ,first through His creation ,second through His revealed word (the Bible) ,and third He revealed Himself to us directly in the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus proved His divinity through His life and Resurrection. He did this to a multitude of eyewitnesses ,and we still have the eyewitness accounts with an amazing amount of historical , and archaeological verification. We can know God by looking to these 3 sources.

@ Zarbo
written by Cerebrum123 , January 03, 2012
Yes a virgin birth is impossible under ordinary circumstances ,but ( I am talking about the Biblical story which does NOT have Jesus talking as a baby) we are dealing with a miracle from God ,and not just any miracle ,but one that had been prophesied a long time in advance. There are many Messianic prophecies in the OT ,and they have been fulfilled by Jesus Christ. God being omnipotent ,can very easily make it possible for a virgin to conceive a child. Things that may be impossible for us are easy for God. The Gospels are completely historically reliable even when it comes to miraculous events. One example is the darkness that was happening during Jesus' crucifixion. This event was recorded ,but it was attributed to an eclipse. A solar eclipse wouldn't have been possible at this time since it was during a a full moon. Thallus' was the secular historian who recorded this event of darkness ,and this quote from Thallus is repeated by Julius Africanus. When you exclude the possibility of the supernatural you are narrowing out certain pieces of truth from your life.
Crossing the Red Sea was no miracle
written by Yibel , January 03, 2012
Responce to bonu_quraiza , May 16, 2010 questions:


The Roman/Byzantine Emperor Justinian sent Roman ships to help transport troops and elephants to Yemen from Ethiopia. This army conquered Yemen in two years, probably because the elephants were very scary. The Aksumite/Ethiopian military intervention, aided by the Byzantine fleet, occurred in 518/523 CE.

Some background info:
Abraha was a general of the Ethiopian King who was sent to conquer Yemen because the Yemeni King was persecuting Christians. King Dhu Nuwas, a Jewish convert of the Himyarite clan had destroyed the Christian fortresses in the Yemeni highlands, sacked Christian Najran (Saudi Arabia) and massacred Christians by throwing them into a ditch and setting them on fire. From Lost to the West by Lars Brownworth, pg.72. Following the suicide of King Dhu Nuwas, Abraha seized power and became a self-styled King of Saba', Yemen.

By helping Christian Ethiopia qain control of the throne in Yemen, the Byzantine Empire gained access to the ancient sea trade routes and the long arm of Justinian now reached from the Red Sea to India, effectively cutting the Arabs (and the Persians) out of the very lucrative spice trade.

The Arab caravan spice trade dwindled, sending the region into a severe depression. The desert dwelling Arabs, dependant on Yemen for food, took to raiding the Yemeni villages. (Unlike today, Yemen, in the 6th century, was a rich agricultural area thanks to dams in the mountainous region which stored the monsoon rains.) Abraha invaded Arabia in order to stop the raids/razzia into Yemen by the various Arab tribes. (Members of one group of raiders from Makkah had even defecated in a cathedral that Abraha had built, a very big insult.)

So the elephant story was probably based on fact, and Muhammad was using this story to declare that the Kaaba was important to his god which was why he (Muhammad) changed the direction/qiblah of prayer and made Makkah important, instead of Madinah.

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