Skopjan propaganda # 10, ‘Greeks are Turks, Albanians, Slavs and Vlachs’

These quotes is an answer to the article entitled “BIG Greek Lie # 10”
and showed in…/stefov88.html by Mr Risto Stefov.

Mr Stefov try to explain what is ethnicity and try to make a Historic reference by using un-historical facts as about the Greeks in Macedonia.

Every body knows that the main source of your writings is Hr. Antonovski, Bernal and Fellemayer.
But who is Antonovski (the other two are known) and what is his work a about the Greek homogeneity.

Antonovski used the 1951 cencus that estimated 2 mil people. Of these, only 47 .000 are Slavphones but in his writing mention 80.000(lie). Those who had a Slav conscience departed from Hellas either under the Treaty of Neuilly, 1919) or after the end of the civil war in 1949. Seeing that no serious claim could rest on a linguistic minority of this size in a country with so compact a Greek population, Antonovski decided to raise the number of Slavophones to 250.000. He distributes them by regions in the following proportions, as compared with the Hellenic -speaking population. Kastoria ~72%, Kalamaria -32 %, Edessa -54,8 %,Serrai -13 %, Thesaloniki -27,6%. But as even with this gross over-estimation the Hellenic majority in””Aegean Macedonia”” remains overwhelming, Antonovski excludes from the Greek population the large number of Greek refugees who arrived from Asia Minor and settled in Macedonia, in 1923 nder the Lausanne population exchange Treaty.
He claims that they are not Greeks, but Karamanlides, pure Turks (tsisti Turtsi) whom Turkey sent to Greece on the occasion of the exchange of populations because being Christian Orthodox they did not have a Turkish conscience.
Turkey, according to Antonovski, wanted to be rid of them for that reason and at the same time because they might furnish Greece a pretext to claim on their behalf the Turkish territories they inhabited. Even the Pontian refugees, who are exclusively Greek-speaking and universally known to be the true descendants of the ancient lonian settlers of the Black sea, he calls Lazoi.
He assigns them as well as the refugees from Caucasus, who were themselves Pontian settlers, Turkish nationality. A hundred thousand of these refugees who settled in Greek Macedonia he describes as Armenian. He even discovered some Kurds among them!

Any similarity with your article Mr Stefov ? A lot of course.

It is hard to choose between you ignorance of historical facts and you impudence. For never since the Turks established their rule in Asia Minor, and by means of cruel persecution and oppression converted to Islam the majority of its Christian Greek population, never once did it happen that a Turk decided to become a Christian; that he exchanged his position of religious~ economic and political power for subjection; that he chose to become a slave at a time when people born Christians gave up their religion for Islam because they were able no longer to suffer oppression and tyranny.

But assuming that notwithstanding all this a Turk decided to take this step, how could he ever survive since death was the certain penalty for rejection of the dominant religion?

Death was even meted out to those Christians whose conversion to Islam did not go beyond the surface if it were ever discovered that they practised Christianity stealthily (the well-known Crypto-Christians ).

It is a shame in the face of the verv science which they are trying for the first time to establish in their country that the Slavs of Skopje, though themselves Christians, have no scruples about distorting history – even creating a university in their capital for that purpose-and about reviling that section of Greek Christendom which amidst tortures and under the cruellest yoke known to history, in preserving their Greek conscience have also managed to preserve the religion of Christ for centuries, and finally breathe the air of national and religious liberty on free Greek soil.

Mr Risto Stefov must know that many of their own fellow countrymen were compelled by Turkish oppression to embrace Islam. There are in that country today, as there are also in Bulgaria, many hundred thousand Mohammedans Slavs. But can they point to a single Christian Slav who had been a Turk and was converted to Christianity during the Ottoman rule? They insist that the Moslems of their country are Slav converts to Islam; they moan over the alleged fact that the Turks of Greek Macedonia who went to Turkey in consequence of the exchange of populations.

It is impossible to read such arguments without amusement and wonder at the degree of objectivity shown by the scholars of Skopje. The terms in which they couch their arguments are also characteristic.

According to Antonovski some Vlachs fell (Propadnale) under Greek influence, others gained (Dobile) a Slavic conscience.. It is probable that the Vlachs are latinised Greeks. But let us suppose that they are not, and that they’ came from Dacia during the Byzantine era. The fact that they loved and admired, or even just showed respect for the culture and the civilisation of the people in whose midst they had come to live, is considered as a fall, as a decline! They want to call them selfs as a Greek Mr Risto Stefov

Macedonia is a vaguely defined geographical area in the southern Balkans. It includes the territory of the Republic of Macedonia (which prior to its declaration of independence in September, 1991 was the southernmost republic in the former Yugoslavia) as well as territory in southwestern Bulgaria and north-central Greece as Danforth said.

Also Danforth, Karakasidou, Poulton and many others mention that During the Ottoman period, which lasted in Macedonia from the fourteenth century until 1913, the population of Macedonia included an amazing number of different ethnic, linguistic, and religious groups, including Slavic and Greek speaking Christians, Turkish and Albanian speaking Moslems, Vlachs, Jews, and Gypsies. Toward the end of the nineteenth century the population of Macedonia was increasingly being defined from various external nationalist perspectives in terms of national categories such as Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Albanians, and Turks. Ottoman authorities, however, continued to divide the population of the empire into administrative units, or millets on the basis of religious identity rather than language, ethnicity, or nationality.

Mr Stefov here are some links that you can find and disquass who are the Vlachs, Arvanites e.t.c.

As about the Slavophone Greek Macedonians you know them very well and they know you also.

Karakasidou, Field of Wheat, Hills of Blood
Poulton, Who are the Macedonians
N. Adriotis, the Language of the Federative Republic of…….
Danforth, how can a woman give birth to one greek and one macedonian?

Lily says:

Long live all our Slavonic tribes! In the North, and in the south!

Therefore there is a strong potential for the further Slavonization of Greece. The great Emperor Justinian (who was among the others of Sclavinian origin) would be so happy to see that. Our ethnic Sclavinian brothers and sisters who forgot their origins will be happy too. For such a task we would be able to get some help from our other Sclavinian tribes that live in northern parts of Europe.

MG537 says:

Unfortunately when ignorant empires (think England, US) embark on nation building experiments, the results are too often disastrous for the people of the affected region. A very good example is today’s Israel/Palestine region.
Also unfortunately for people of Greek origin, the name “Macedonia” has been given to that tiny nation north of Greece.
Whether FYROM/Skopje/Macedonia is a viable nation, only time will tell.
However one can not blame the people of Greece when they claim that the borders of their country are not negotiable.

westclub4 says:

There are -more or less- two million people living in FYROM right now. Of them, approximately 250,000 are of an either Vlachophone Greek or Greek origin. There are also many who concurrently feel either Bulgar or south-Slav (i.e. ethnic Bulgars, Serbs, Bosniacs, etc.). They weight for another 250,000 people -whereas, some Panslavist ultra-nationalists would raise their numbers so that they would give us an approximation for all of the Bulgaro-Slavs in FYROM that would reach an astonishing number of 350,000 to 400,000 people or so. If that is so, then we are left with less than another 1.4 million people whose ethnic origin must be described as otherwise.

In particular, the numbers that are provided for the Albanians in FYROM may also vary significantly from a low figure of 480,000 to the very optimistic one of an almost 750,000 people. The latter does not produce from summing up only those ethnic Albanians themselves but, it particularly derives when all of the moslem peoples of FYROM are added up together so that they also include all ethnic Albanians, Roma Gipsys, those Moslem Bosniacs and all of the people that are of Othomanic Turk ethnic origin, as well.

Then, we are left with the rather ‘vague’ yet also approximate estimation for a 600,000 to 900,000 people, which might have been the original slavophone ethnic Macedonians of the north (i.e. the historic Macedonian Greeks, which initially were speaking either Doric Greek or the Koine Greek dialect at some point and who have completely lost their language and culture in the recent past and who developed a rather peculiar slavophonea ever since, as a result of foreign invasion, occupation, partition and oppression by a barbarous mixed south-Slavic, Avaric and Tataric Bulgarian political elite.

Indeed, a strong ethnic Greek community already exists in FYROM. It consists of the 250,000 Vlachophone Greeks and Greek speakers. To them we should add also the approximate number of 750,000 slavophone ethnic Macedonians of then north, which are of an also ethnic Greek Macedonian historic origin and descent. We should also take into consideration that there are many Albanian speakers as well, which are of an Othodox-Greek and of an also Arvanitan Greek historic origin and descent, and who have recently sided with the ethnic Albanians for the time being, to whom they have seen an old Pelasgic Dardano-Illyrian Greek ethnic people, which eventually became substantially Romanised ever since the Roman Conquest of the Hellenic Peninsula.

Yet, the Arvanitan Greeks who live in FYROM have certainly choosen to do so only as a response to the Panslavist ultra-nationalist pressure and oppression, and as soon as they see that the ethnic Greeks in FYROM claim of their separate communal and historic rights, they would most certainly return to Hellenism and also to Greek language and culture too.

Therefore, there is strong potential for the future of Hellenism in FYROM. Indeed, there is a strong potential for Hellenic ideals and values to return to FYROM in the near future. We shall not waste no more time. Our ethnic Macedonian Greek brothers and sisters of the north are awaiting us for many centuries now, and that is so either consciously or not. Hellenes, from either side of the border, remember: The task for the proper Epanhellenices of our ethnic brothers and sisters is now at Your hands, as well. That particularly significant and also sensitive historic task and matter should proceed at all costs and by any means necessary too.

Long live Macedonia and the rest of Greece! Long live the forthcoming Hellenic Republic!

Alexandros says:

That must be one of the dumbest posts i have ever read and totally indicatie of Skopjan Foolishness. I would say Skopjans never miss a chance to show off to the real world they are the Dumbest people ever walked on the surface of this planet. Their brains have been so intensively brain-washed that its no surprise they appear to invent so confused stories that make everybody laugh. Keep up the good work on making people laughing Skopjans.

andronikthemacedonian says:

you the people of today s greece have problem with the name greece which came from latin “graecus” in englesh “those who dont know anything”. When Romans came south after the fall of Macedonian Empire they find backward people that is how you got your name, although too humilating you accepted the rallity.Macedonians never had any problem with their name. The country you call Greece today historicaly was part of Macedonia /except Atens from time to time/. In Alexandar s time the name Greece or Greek was unknown,it was intraduced by Romans much later. We know that Greeks are good manipulators when come to history of the region specialy glorious Macedonian history. MACEDONIA FOREVER !!!

george says:

ur point makes no sence, you say that slavs know more than ancient romans??? and that greeks are liers for calling themselves greeks? they call themselves hellines, hellenon or hellas, hence alexanders campain was known by the WORLD and by the ancient one as being the hellenistic era go do some homework

giota says:

To Daniel from the above, trust me if there were more people like you it would be so much easier! You mentioned finding REAL resources!! this is what FYRM’s need to do and not constently speak from uneducated and biased sides!

untill now there has been evidence to support greek findings (testimonies) you can hide this which most FYRM’s do

Giota says:

FYRM’s need to start reading acient document and testimony’s (Persians and jews) and not comic books. THe dream of alexander the great was for greece to be one. Ask yourself why there is no country called athens or sparta or crete? because it greece its one.

Don’t forget that italy had the same situation, many small kindoms but the understood that they were one and the same people ITALIANS so they became one country. This is the same as greece!!

Greece is one today with alexanders dream for athens to be the capital.

I can say more but that is all for now.

Ask yourself why people are talking this now and not in ancient times? Cause this is how it is!!

Daniel says:

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article | History Of Macedonia, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.

Athanasios Alexandropoulos says:

This is so funny.

Indeed, you Skopians are the most “unique” ethnic I ever met and here some name examples:

Greek origin: Vasil Georgievski (Greek: Vasilis, Georgios…)
Turkish origin: Mustafa Taskinovski
Roma origin: Muhabet Kerimov
Bulgarian origin: Goce Delchev
Serbian origin: Spaso Dimtchev
Albanian origin: Ali Berishovski

Yes, yes, your nation is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo unique!

By the way, Republic of Skopia (aka FYROM) is one of the most ugliest countries I visited,
and so the people are….

If one nation have not a past, no history and claiming to be someone else, what is that?

Here something in MACEDONIAN: