Friday, 3 February 2017

Go Van Go!













Chris Rusbridge said...

This is a lovely piece which I really enjoyed, been there, got a lot of scars! I


liked these examples because a site proclaiming itself as the English Oxford Living dictionaries says:

"Although it is often supposed that octopi is the ‘correct’ plural of octopus, and it has been in use for longer than the usual Anglicized plural octopuses, it in fact originates as an error. Octopus is not a simple Latin word of the second declension, but a Latinized form of the Greek word oktopous, and its ‘correct’ plural would logically be octopodes."

Likewise agenda is already plural; so often you see references to "agendum 4", so I guess agendae is definitely a step too far!

But this from someone forced by the consensus of our project to treat data as singular, at least as a verb subject (not that I really liked the alternative either). And in my yoof, when I learned most words by reading them, I remember the howls of laughter that followed my question one evening "What is an arch-ipp-el-ARGO?"

And you're so right about spoken dutch, extraordinary. And isn't it odd how various languages are so different in their intonation that one can have a pretty good stab at identification without even hearing any words... but I'm rambling!

Zouk Delors said...

Actually, although that's a correct transliteration of Abu Al-Walid etc., it still isn't pronounced like that: there would be various elisions and interpolated vowels in speech.

Florence (as well as the names we use for Turin and many other northern Italian towns and cities) is the French name.

PS Don't forget; it's "the spaghetti are ready."

Thomas Rink said...


we Germans struggle with the pronunciation of our language ourselves. Make one of the natives of the states south of river Main pronounce "Duisburg" or "Oer-Erkenschwick" or "Bad Oeynhausen" - you have a fair chance that he screws up. On the other hand, my grandmother in Darmstadt, for example, used to pronounce "Pfungstadt" like "Poong-sht". A "Prussian" from somewhere north of the Main probably won't "get it".

Best, Thomas

Andrew Sharp said...


The van in the title reminded me of the moment I knew I'd be getting my PhD (back in the days when all you had to do was produce an acceptable thesis) and the external examiner pointed out that I'd put a reference to a paper by Van Bogaert (a very pleasant Belgian colleague) under V rather than B.

The stuff about place names could equally apply in the UK. You say Bradford they say Bratfud, we say Weaverthorpe they say Warethrop, We say Helmsley they say Hemsley. My favourite is the local pronunciation of Uttoxeter as Utcheter.

Mike C. said...


Ah, yes, Dutch vans versus American vans...

As for local pronunciation, there's a whole other post there. For example, my cousin lives near Happisburgh ("Haysbra") in Norfolk, not far from my sister who lives near Wymondham ("Windum")...


Martyn Cornell said...

… and yet Wymondley.

The most annoying ones are those where, if you pronounce it correctly, everyone else in the Anglophone world thinks you're a thicko who's getting it wrong (yes, it really IS "TuranDOT)", although this means I once had the huge pleasure of putting down a wine snob who tried to "correct" my pronunciation of Moët & Chandon. (What did he think that diaresis was doing there, ffs?)

Mike C. said...


Wot, "Wimmley", you mean? ;)

It's a minefield, isn't it? The word "shibboleth" springs to mind... But the pleasure of being "right" cannot be denied, however, especially when faced by some preening snob.


Zouk Delors said...

People fall into one of two groups: those who pronounce shibboleth with the stress on the first syllable, and those who stress the second.

Mike C. said...


Well... With three syllables, each capable of being stressed, three vowels, each capable of several different versions, plus people able and not able to manage "sh" and people able and not able to manage "th", the possible combinations are rather more than two, I think... But only *one* will get you past the guards into Gilead.


Zouk Delors said...

They shall not pass! (their citizenship test)

Zouk Delors said...

I wasn't happy with the word interpolated in my comment, above, but couldn't think of a better one. It seems to me now, that may be epenthesised. (Thanks, Shed.)