On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Noah Tilton wrote: Good thoughts. Aside from the level of abstraction, and how it maps to the problem domain, I think the style of language is another important components. For example, even if you had a perfect API, if it is coupled with a Haskell-like functional syntax, it will be an impediment to a "power-user" who is familiar with only imperative languages. You can slice and dice it in many ways, but one way to think of the spectrum is: 1) end user programming == simple record and play-back macros, spreadsheet functions 2) Power users, some web designers == simple imperative Javascript or shell scriptsing. Can copy a routine to reuse and make simple modifications to it. Might read a programming book. 3) Application developers == a professional working with C#, maybe Java, or another modern language. Builds complete solutions from existing parts, gluing them together where possible. Focuses not on the individual components, but on integrating the pieces with the "business logic" that the custom requires. Keeps up with the latest trends and techniques. 4) System programmers == C/C++ programmer. Skills increase as you go up the spectrum, as does cost. Aiming too high makes a tool have a smaller audience. I think the ODF Toolkit today is at the app developer level in our "Simple API". But because it is in a Java syntax, that puts it out of reach for level 2 developers. > Therefore, a good/useful DSL is terse, simple, and expressive.  It > utilizes users' vocabulary to describe the domain. > > So my question to the list is, what kind of "nouns" and "verbs" should > be part of the language we are creating?  If you are an ODF Toolkit > user, what kind of language do you currently use, or would you feel > comfortable using, to describe your activities? > One possible level is to look at what the developer at level 1 and 2 already knows. They don't know ODF. But they know word processors and spreadsheets and presentation graphics. They know the abstractions of an end user: sheets, slides, paragraphs. Their "verbs" are the actions of the menu in their editors. -Rob > Thanks, > > -- > Noah >