Abdullah Gul: Egyptian Muslims Should Not Fear Secularism


Abdullah Gul is the president of Turkey. I spoke with him during his visit to the United States for the NATO summit in Chicago. Here is the interview:

Nathan Gardels: Due to the rapid rise of the emerging powers, American-led Globalization 1.0 is yielding to a new era -- Globalization 2.0 -- characterized by non-Western modernity and the interdependence of plural identities. The two fastest-growing economies in the world are China, which is reviving some of its old Confucian ways as it prospers, and Turkey, a secular state ruled by an Islamic-oriented party. How do you see this evolving world looking out from the old Ottoman Empire?

Abdullah Gul: What we are seeing today is a circle completing itself. A couple of centuries ago China was the most important economy in the world. Then the industrial revolution came and England moved forward, followed by the United States. Now, once again, the center of economic gravity in the world is going back to where it was. More wealth is being spread around to others. We live in a plural world with many power centers. Identities can no longer be prioritized as Western or Islamic or Chinese.


From a more philosophical point of view, though, I would say that the concept of modernity is itself debatable. More properly, we should talk about fundamental values of social justice, equality, respect for the faiths, languages and ways of others; a governing system and economy that delivers the goods to its people.



If the idea of ìbeing modern is imposed from the top by authoritarian means, it doesnít work. That amounts to social engineering. There is resistance to it because it is seen as importing Western values. We have seen this reaction clearly in the Arab Spring uprisings which overthrew authoritarian modernizers across the region. The Arabs are now seeking their own path commensurate with their values.

Gardels: In a speech earlier this year in Cairo, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told the Muslim Brotherhood and others contending for power in their new democracy that they "should not fear secularism," which has been the foundation of Turkey's rapid economic development.


Gul: What is unfortunate for the Arab and Maghreb countries is that their interpretation of secularism has been based on the French model, which is a Jacobin model of imposing a kind of irreligiousness.




They understand that what we are doing in Turkey is focusing on fundamental freedoms. Freedom to practice one's own religion is one of the most fundamental of freedoms. We are lifting the barriers, that's all.

Gardels: It is ironic that one of the demands of the European Union, when Turkey was on a trajectory toward EU membership, was subordinating the military to civilian rule. Now, many criticize the widespread prosecution of the generals of the "deep state" that guaranteed Turkish secularism as a veiled attack on secularism itself. How do you respond?


As you know, modern Turkish history has seen coup d'etats by the military roughly once every 10 years. Given this fact, one can't disregard what the public prosecutors are alleging. In any event, these cases are pending now, and I am not in a position to say who is guilty or innocent. I only hope the cases will be resolved sooner rather than later.



In 2010, Turkey and Brazil convinced the Iranians to transfer half of their enriched uranium outside the country so it could not be used in weaponization. At that time they had 1,000 kilos of enriched uranium. For inexplicable reasons, this agreement was not realized, and it was not Iran's fault. So, the opportunity was missed. Now they have 3,000 kilos.

Last month in Istanbul there was a meeting of the P-5-plus-1, and Iran convened at our insistence because all the countries involved were not moving forward. This turned out to be quite a positive meeting that has now led to the current meeting in Baghdad. The signs are good that both sides are acting this time in good faith.


We support Iran's right to use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes. But Iran's program must be transparent, and its leaders must assure the international community of its non-military nature.


Gul: Since the so-called "cease-fire" was declared in Syria, 1,500 people have died. Scores of people are dying every day. We support the six-point Annan plan (negotiated by former UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan), but it must be fully implemented in every respect, which has not so far been the case.


