How to prevent injection pain

Discussion in 'Steroid Forum' started by Fraggle, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. #1

    Fraggle Junior Member

    This is advice I find myself giving repeatedly on how to prevent injection pain.

    First, there are five primary causes of injection pain.

    1) High Benzyl Alcohol content.

    Benzyl Alcohol (BA) is used to increase the lipid solubility of esterfied compounds and to prevent bacteria growth in the oil. Most UGL's use excess BA or only BA as the co-solvent, due to it's modest price. Unfortunately, it can cause the destruction of cells and significant localised pain and inflammation. The discomfort is characterised by fairly rapid onset of a painful, red, swollen area. This can be ameliorated by diluting the compound with sterile cutting oil (grapeseed, cottonseed, sesameseed). A 1:1 ratio often works well.

    2) Precipitation of short estered compounds

    The shorter an ester, the less solubility is has in oil. This necessitates higher concentrations of BA to prevent the compound from 'crashing' out of solution. When the oil is injected, the BA is absorbed from the location of the oil depot. This caused the active compound to precipitate fine crystals within the muscle. The onset of this pain is often 4-12 hours after injection and is characterised by a hard, red, swelling at the injection site. To prevent this an additional co-solvent is needed, Benzyl Benzoate. BB maintains solubility of the esterfied compound past the point at which BA has been removed, preventing crystaline precipitation. Most UGL's don't add this to their compounded oils due to the higher cost. If added at approximately 20% by volume you can prevent most associated short ester pain.

    3) High concentration (mg/ml)

    Per above, Long ester = high solubility, short ester = less solubility. Human grade pharmaceutical hormones are almost never dosed higher then 200mg/ml for long esters (cypionate). To increase the concentration, a larger amount of BA is necessary as a co-solvent. This can result in a similar reaction to that caused by short esters with pain and swelling as the BA is absorbed and solubility decreases and precipitation occurs. In this instance you don't 'need' the additional co-solvent (BB, but it still helps!). Instead, you can simply dilute the compounding oil with sterile cutting oil to lower the concentration to within the solubility for that ester.

    4) Fascia displacement

    This occurs when a large volumetric quantity is injected into a single site. The oil pushes the muscle fascia apart and results in stretching and eventually scarring with the muscle. This can be avoided by reducing single site injection volume and spreading the injections between multiple sites. This is also a good idea as more smaller, more frequent dosing significantly reduces many of the side effects of AAS. These become exacerbated by peak and troughs in hormone levels. The reduction in side effects is particularly dramatic with trenbolone acetate when an ED injection schedule is maintained.

    5) Histamine reaction

    This doesn't occur as often, but is still a potential possibility. For a compound to become biologically active the ester must be cleaved from the parent molecule. This results in the formation of a carboxylic acid. Some people find that they are sensitive to one of these. This results in swelling, warmth, redness and possibly a rash at the injection site. In the worst instance the individual may have an existing allergy to the carrier oil (sessame, etc...) that can result in anaphylaxis (swelling and occlusion of the airway) in addition to localised inflammation. If any histamine reaction results, immediately discontinue use and switch to an alternate carrier oil and/or alternate ester. If anaphylaxis results, immediately seek medical attention.

    Ultimately I break these down into the following set of rules.

    1) Dilute compound with sterile cutting oil to get mg/ml at <=200 for long esters and <=100 for short esters.
    2) Add 20% Benzyl Benzoate by volume to propionate and phenylpropionate esters.
    3) Use a 23g needle to prevent high output pressure from smaller needles
    4) Inject very slowly to reduce muscle fascia displacement
    5) Inject frequently w/ less volume, <3ml for large muscles and <2ml for smaller muscles
    6) Rotate sites every time (I use six sites)
    7) Gently warm the oil to improve viscosity
    8) Ensure that the injection is deep intra-muscular and fully through any sub cutaneous fat

    You can also add:
    100mg benadryl one hour prior to injection
    800mg ibuprofen one hour prior to injection

    However, the ibuprofen will reduce the activity of autocrine based transcription and activity of PGE and PGF so continued use can result in less muscle hypertrophy.

  2. #2

    jasthace Active Member

    This needs to be a sticky:cool:
  3. #3

    LifeSize Junior Member

    I second that!
  4. #4

    Drea'An Member

    Injection pain can be avoid by letting the stuff get to body temperature which makes for a smooth injection. I massage the area prior to the injection and I let the oil run down the needle to have less friction on the skin and muscle when I inject. I have antihistamines and pain killers, but I use them for headaches, dull joint aches , and hay fever.
  5. #5

    Fraggle Junior Member

    Warming the oil definitely improves viscosity and allows it to enter the muscle with less discomfort. When short esters, high concentrations or excess benzyl alcohol are involved, you are still going to need to dilute or add benzyl benzoate to allow for the least painful injections.

    NSAID's are rarely necessary, but can help when there is fascia displacement from large volume injections.

    The anti-histamines are also only needed on a case-by-case basis. Some people are highly sensitive to certain carboxylic acids that are used to form the ester. Other people can be allergic to the oils -- though this usually results in massive inflammation that cannot be mistaken for anything else.

  6. #6

    rtn Junior Member

    Thanks for the great information. You mentioned "destruction of cells" in your post. I hope this doesn't mean any permanent damage. I'm 2 days post-quad injection and feel like I should be on crutches. I have some oil coming to dilute for the next go-around.
  7. #7
    Millard Baker

    Millard Baker Member

    Thanks for this!
  8. #8

    Sensational Junior Member

    Fraggle--very good post my friend.
  9. #9

    LifeSize Junior Member

    What's up Millard, are you going to sticky?
  10. #10

    Fraggle Junior Member

    Benzyl Alcohol in high concentrations will destroy any cell. That's what gives it the antimicrobial properties that we take advantage of when compounding oil based steroids. Users can experience this as a hard red swelling in the muscle that usually goes away after a few days. By using more benzyl benzoate then BA you reduce the chance of this becoming a problem. If you hurt to the point where you feel like you need crutches, the UGL has not appropriately compounded your oil. Follow the directions above and you should be fine.

    Injections shouldn't hurt. Don't put up with the pain. Change the compound and give feedback to your source. Market force can push the UGL's in the right direction so that everyone gets good quality product.

  11. #11

    Fraggle Junior Member

    Bruce at AS also suggested the possibility of puncturing the lymphatic system. This network of vessels flows through the body returning interstitial cellular fluid back into blood plasma. It uses skeletal muscles as it's 'pump' with many one way valves to prevent reverse flow. The clear fluid that flows through the system is referred to as lymph -- hence the name.

    The fluid flows from the lymph capillaries in the far extremities into the lymph vessels and then the thoracic ducts before returning into the blood vessels. The large vessels, particularly the ducts are in highly protected areas such as adjacent to the spinal column. There is some slight risk of puncturing a lymph vessel in either the thigh or gluteal muscles. If you do inject into a lymphatic vessel, you could experience some swelling at the site. This will not diminish functionality of the steroid as the lymph system is one of the primary methods the body uses for transport of 'fatty acids' and oils.

    The best way to determine if you have punctured one is the same for blood vessel puncture. Aspirate. Instead of looking for red blood, you are looking for clear fluid return. In either case, withdraw the needle and attempt to inject at another location. Significant pain is unlikely as the vessel is not under pressure, but better safe then sorry.

  12. #12

    rtn Junior Member

    Thanks for your additional responses. The product I am using is from one of our advertisers. After 3 days I'm still hobbling around. If I bend my knee I cannot support any weight. I just buckle. I generally use a 22G 1" for quads but this time decided to try a 25G (bad choice). I have no redness or swelling but feel as if the quad isn't working at all. Do you think there is a chance of permanent damage or should I return to normal over time? Even if I dilute this stuff with oil, I'm hesitant to stick the other leg at the end of the week. I don't have a wheelchair sitting around. The liquid D-Bol from this source also has a smell like chemical glue. I wonder what they cut it with. Thanks again for the responses.
  13. #13

    heartofaleo Junior Member

    How come I only get sore sometimes when I inject Glutes and Quads? I ALWAYS get sore for about 4 days when I do delts. Is there a site that is really detailed on injections? I've seen a few but none really get too detailed.
  14. #14

    bobvongule Junior Member

    All I know is Fraggle knows his shit when it comes to this topic. I have tried both adding oil and adding benzyl benzoate to my products with much success. It makes everything smooth and pain free. I think he uses himself as a guinea pig, poor guy. Thanks Fraggle.
  15. #15

    Fraggle Junior Member

    Soreness post injection really depends on the muscle group and the substance you used. For the delts, you're going to run into fascia displacement with large injection volumes. I never inject more then 1ml in my delts.

    Intermittent soreness in the quads and glutes is a little more tricky. If you provide me with a little more information on when, how and with what you get the soreness I can give you some specific advice, barring that, dilute with oil and add benzyl benzoate, switch to more frequent injections with less volume and inject SLOWLY, really, really, really SLOW.

  16. #16

    Fraggle Junior Member

    Everything in the information I've provided above has been tested on myself and through feedback received from others. It also matches the pharmaceutical industry protocols for compounding oil based drugs.

    My better half gave me her first injection last night in my dorsal gluteal muscle. Don't usually use the dorsal, but I needed an extra two sites as I'm doing 2ml ED for the first week and then EOD for the following 15 weeks, 1ml each of test e and EQ.

    Smooth as silk, no immediate pain and very mild soreness only when direct pressure is applied to the site this morning.

  17. #17

    hardasnails1973 Active Member

    This that help me in the past.
    1. Buying real stuff not from back ward kitchen chemistry setts
    2. heating the syringe lightly over boiled water to help kill bacteria.or burn off the excessive BA
    3. Knowing that 50% of people can be allergic to prop and can have the EQ flu.
    4. Never reuse the same needle even for drawing with out wiping it first will alcohol.
    5. Always keep area relaxed never shot after traning that body part. Can cause spasms in the muscles.
    6. rotating sites, and injecting when needed.
    7. Rub area after done if it was a big shot
    8. Take no more then 1 cc in shoulder or quad at a time it could ball up cause inflammation.

    Fragle no offense if you are dumping all that shit in to your body and you still look like your avatar SOMETHING IS SERIOUSLY WRONG ...
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2008
  18. #18

    Fraggle Junior Member

    That's my woman. Think hard for a minute.
  19. #19

    LifeSize Junior Member

    Bump, don't ignore us.
  20. #20

    Bigkarch Active Member

    relax bros...i made it a stcky........good post
