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Guest Post: Revolution Is Evolution

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by The Needle blog

Revolution is Evolution







Having outlined the circumstances under which revolution occurs in the natural world let’s look at two historical political revolutions. The first we’ll look at is the American Revolution. In this example the dominant ’lifeform’ which became extinct would be Great Britain and the environment would be what is now the eastern seaboard of the USA. Great Britain was surpringly ill-adapted to this environment, it’s dominance was due primarily to the fact that other ‘lifeforms’ were even less well adapted. Great Britain ruled and projected it’s power over a great distance [it is interesting to note that it could take up to 6 weeks to send instructions across the Atlantic to put that in some perspective it took Apollo 11  in 1969 a total of 3 days, 3 hours and 49 minutes to fly to the Moon]  In the end a better adapted ‘lifeform’ evolved within that environment. Although the American Revolution was not without conflict and upheaval, because a better adapted political model  had come to dominate, the transition was relatively smooth.

Our second historical political revolution is the French Revolution and the ‘lifeform’ which became extinct is the Ancien Régime of King Louis XVI. These circumstances are completely different from the first example. The Ancien Régime had in the past been fairly well adapted to it’s environment but that environment had changed and the Ancien Régime had not sufficiently evolved to meet that change. In 1789 the regime became extinct but there was no better adapted entity to take it’s place within that environment. Bloody revolution was followed by bloody counter-revolution. It is interesting to note that it was not until almost 80 years later when, in 1870 the French Third Republic was formed, that a stable regime had evolved to govern within that environment.

These two examples stand in stark contrast to each other with the former, relatively smooth American Revolution, being the exception rather than the rule. Still both examples clearly show that political revolution is part of the process of evolution, just as extinction is.

Right, now let’s look at the current economic system because it too has evolved to be incompatable with it’s environment and now faces extinction. It is like an animal which has consumed all of the resources it needs to survive within it’s environment, it is now consuming what it has previously excreted. It has  polluted thE environment thus irrevocably changing it but it has also evolved to be extremely specialised within it’s niche and can not evolve, therefore it will become extinct.

But there is no alternative economic model that can easily take it’s place. Therefore, my conclusion is that it’s inevitable extinction will be followed by an extended period of turmoil and unrest potentially bloody, before an alternative economic model evolves.


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Sun, 07/22/2012 - 14:32 | 2640569 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Unfortunately, the direction that we seem to be going is backwards -- back towards a Lord/serf model where a few at the top have all the spoils and virtually unlimited power.  China is a good current example.  The public is being taught and most now believe that the answer to our problems is more police state apparatus, fewer rights (think TSA at airports and "first amendment zones" at political events), no unions or other organization of workers, lower wages for the working class so we can compete with low wage/no regulation countries, and lower taxes/fewer rules for the top "productive class" [in quotes because most simply inherit their fortunes].  

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 15:21 | 2640707 Michael
Michael's picture

Think of oligarchs like weeds. You have to kill them all at the roots and their extensions, or they keep coming back.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:06 | 2641239 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

If or when this revolution becomes bloody, just remember that they declared war on us, we did not declare war on them

We are only defending our friends, our family, our community and our country

If the cops and armed forces had any brains at all, they would be helping us (we the people), not attacking us

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 21:07 | 2641420 old naughty
old naughty's picture

"...that it’s inevitable extinction will be followed by an extended period of turmoil and unrest potentially bloody, before an alternative economic model evolves."

Or, an alternative evolution model begins...

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 23:52 | 2641604 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Revolution happens when things get worse faster than people can lower their standards.   That is all TPTB are doing, letting the slide be slow and gradual.   Any slip toward acceleration will rouse the populace to riots and revolution.   It's a delicate balance.  With this many egomaniacs and just plain felons running the financial system it's just a matter of time.  Greed will win out as each rushes for the exits.

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 04:55 | 2641748 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

revolution happens when middle class aligns with the lower class to over throw the upper class. Then few from middle class will assume position of upper class and rule over the rest until cycle repeats.


In America, cheap loans from upper class are keeping lower class from rioting and keep voting republican.

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 10:32 | 2642455 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Aldous Huxley has some views on that:


Mon, 07/23/2012 - 12:49 | 2643023 Rhodin
Rhodin's picture

We haven't quite got to "required" meds for all yet.  But there are over 40 million in USA on some type of psychotropic meds.  Add to that large portions of the populace hypnotized by propaganda TV, dosed with clorine and floride, imbibing nanoparticles, GMO, and whatever else with their corporate food.   It does not surprise that a majority believe the propaganda, even when what they actually see disputes it.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 15:57 | 2640791 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture


The second one has the headline "Police Shooting in Anaheim Leads to Violent Clash."

That's not exactly what happened, is it?

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 13:02 | 2643089 CPL
CPL's picture

I understand that the water and food in the area has dried up like the colorado river.


A dad was complaining (yes he was a felon, but served his time) that he would like water, cops thought that idea was ludicris so they shot him "before he started a riot".  They then turned the guns and dogs on the other parents concerned with the same problem.


Problem solved appearently until the next food and water "riot"

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 15:22 | 2640699 The Final Countdown
The Final Countdown's picture

Looks like Karl Marx was right about one thing. The situation we are in today is just like 60 years ago, except that the elite is not exploiting everyone else by having control over production means, but by having control over the monetary instruments that are prerequisite to about everything related to our wealth and welfare.

Too bad that despite the right analysis, he had the wrong solution. Maybe there isn't one anyway, and we're all seriously fucked in the long run.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 16:42 | 2640878 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

For the love of God people Marx never offered solutions, or frameworks for solutions. He had ideas about how to move away from the current system through revolution but that was the extent of it. 

Lenin is not Marx. 

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 19:08 | 2641144 Inspector Bird
Inspector Bird's picture

Dead on correct.

Marx had no blueprints for a replacement society, just an idea on how people should behave - just like the guidance that religions provide.  He hated religion, but he spawned one which calls itself a political movement.

Marx also analyzed the problems of the capitalist system incorrectly.  Schumpeter's analysis was far more accurate, as was his description of how and why a capitalist system can fail.  If we were more educated in the Schumpetarian manner, and more aware of what keeps an economy healthy, we likely would have less to be concerned with.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 19:22 | 2641171 Inspector Bird
Inspector Bird's picture

There is no "solution" to anything. 

Just intelligent and clean living.  Honesty, sincerity and the ability to look out for oneself in difficult environments. 

People seeking "solutions" and those providing them are misguided.  The blind leading the blind.


The best "solution" to our issues would be to have honest politicians.  I don't see any out there.  Ron Paul is about as close as they get these days....even so, he's a politician.  Which means he's not 100% honest.  Though he happens to be more consistent than all the others, which is in itself a form of honesty and integrity.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:12 | 2641247 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

There is no solution to anything?

That has to be one of the stupidest things anybody has ever said



Mon, 07/23/2012 - 05:03 | 2641751 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

solution is not always the right thing to do.


for example: solution to lower unemployment to kill off all those who are unemployed.


solution to fixing the fed is to kill the fed, but idea of central banking will never go away.


society needs to decide which solution they are willing to live with.



Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:29 | 2640974 Landrew
Landrew's picture

Well said! What is really surprising to me is how many working people actually think lower wages are something to be cheered! Being paid fairly with a pension is somehow a BAD thing.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:01 | 2641233 toady
toady's picture

It's a race to the bottom and everyone is cheering them on as they come around the final turn!

And that's why they will win. Anybody who makes more than anybody else is evil and must be brought down. Anyone who has their act together must have cheated

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 21:07 | 2641416 LooseLee
LooseLee's picture

The bankers and the politicians think they have their act together. Maybe the so-called 'act-together' is nothing but conformity to the established system. Maybe all of these people who think they are part of the 'solution' are really part of the problem. That is my observation...

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 22:49 | 2641546 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Being paid what your labor is worth is a good thing.


Unfortunately, that is not something most people will accept.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 14:26 | 2640572 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Just get out in the streets and start banging pans. Bankers can't stand that noise. They head for the hills everytime. 

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 15:29 | 2640731 kito
kito's picture

Bankers wouldn't last a week in the hills...plenty of farmers with shotguns waiting for their commodities brokerage account money to be returned...............

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 16:59 | 2640911 fattail
fattail's picture

i watched a documentary on the Argentinian devaluation in 2001 and part of that show was numerous public demonstrations of people banging pots and pans demanding their money back from the banks.  Needless to say they never got their money back, and looked quite pathetic marching in the streets.  i thought they would have gotten more attention and been more effective had they took a more violent approach.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:18 | 2641273 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

That is exactly why our founding fathers  SUGGESTED VIOLENCE


Sun, 07/22/2012 - 23:56 | 2641611 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture


Thomas Jefferson

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 21:13 | 2641433 LooseLee
LooseLee's picture

Good point! So lets not march with pots & pans, but with the heads of politicians and bankers on tree branches! Until the moron American can awake from the sleep and conditioning of 100 years of repression disguised as freedom he will be no more than a slave of the elite.

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 13:06 | 2643105 Rhodin
Rhodin's picture

That might work, or just thin the elite and the general population while the surviving elite consolidate control by eliminating the awakened ones.   But if you "win", a new elite slowly arises, with new disguises, finds a new way to steal from the productive, and the wheel revolves again later. 

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 14:28 | 2640579 syvanen
syvanen's picture

Nice explanation for why the 19th century Marxists embrased Darwin's theory almost immediately after its publication in 1859. It provided a concrete example of the idea within dialectical materialism that  quantitative change leads to qualitative change.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 14:43 | 2640614 swanpoint
swanpoint's picture

ZH: your biggest fans over TAE dropped something for ut'z:



Sun, 07/22/2012 - 15:01 | 2640646 graneros
graneros's picture

"To help Greece survive the month of August, the ECB could jump in one last time. Athens must pay back €3.8 billion by August 20. The solution could be a kind of circular deal, in which eurozone central banks take over credit payments. Greece could issue new short-term bonds and sell them to Greek banks. They could then submit them to the Greek central bank as collateral for new emergency help."  (italics are mine)


Now where did we put that can?  Oh there it is, down on the road that goes on forever.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:51 | 2641024 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

Greece could issue new short-term bonds


Yep, just issue some more 'bonds'.  Nothing like more paper to try to cover up the fact that we're broke.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 15:22 | 2640709 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture


Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:21 | 2641295 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Well said

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 14:46 | 2640620 graneros
graneros's picture


But in the meantime Adam Smith's invisible hand will continue as it always has regardless of any man made "economic model."

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 16:54 | 2640892 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Just because it's one of the most mischaracterized quotes there is, an Adam Smith themed day should have the full version:


Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:27 | 2641318 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

"Alternative Economic Model"?

What fucking planet did he come from?

Whats the hell is wrong with an honest monetary system?


Sun, 07/22/2012 - 22:53 | 2641550 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

You'd do better to spend some time reading Smith before flying off the handle on something you clearly misunderstand. 

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 22:57 | 2641557 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Centralized government and command economies don't work.


How about trying freedom?

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 18:24 | 2640626 falak pema
falak pema's picture

"Revolution is evolution" would make the scions of scottish enlightenment shudder; they hated the french revolution. They were nourished on John Locke's liberal ideas and the notion of natural laws. And their successors rightly considered RObespierre as a tyrant who used and abused people's power, as he was obsessed by the teachings of Rousseau who decreed that common man was basically good, unlike his blue blooded counterparts who were corrupted by undue privilege. In the name of that principle, "man is good" the French revolution embarked on social engineering to create a new race of rational beings and to eliminate all the corrupt branches of the past order. 

All ideology even if its pushed to its limits in a seemingly good cause ends up by creating its own monsters; revolutionary Robespiere and the Comité de Salut Public were no exception. They spawned the totalitarian culture of statism and new european order based on a seemingly innocuous premise : "man is basically good!". All the while they chopped off people's heads! 

In their defense it can be said that it destroyed the alternative vision projected by two thousand years of Abrahamic religion : man is a fallen angel that must practise penitence and live in guilt until his final redemption. 

One prejudiced belief that made the Universal church pre-eminent was replaced by another that made the secular, totalitarian  state hegemonic.  In both cases a hidden reason for justifying the pre-eminence of a given ideology was evident behind the curtain. It allowed an elite to hold power "for ever" and perpetuate itself. 

Man never learns, he just falls from one bunker into another.

Ask Adam Scot! He lost his angelic status at the British Open ! 

Having said that, I agree with the main gist of the article that says we are basically entering a period of dark ages as we have lost our collective compass in this crash. 

But I also feel the seeds of a new paradigm are all around us and the pain felt during attrition will help propulse the need for new power structures and innovative solutions. And it could be in places that are not part of the current power equation. 

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:30 | 2641336 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Shoot yourself in the head

 Do it now Troll

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 23:32 | 2641594 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Dude, you're like a big-time grouch or something, huh?  Take a chill pill...

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 23:06 | 2641564 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

"Revolution is evolution" only when those revolting are more evolved.


Replacing a society with one with a higher level of sociopathic behavior would be devolution.


Sun, 07/22/2012 - 14:54 | 2640629 New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

Ah, another brilliant historic assumption on the cause of revolution.  Evolution?  Really!   And here it is thorough historic examination of all revolutions, they are always proven to be known as a governmental bankrutpcy.   Brinton's "Anatomy of a Revolution" and my own "New American Revolution" have just been destroyed by this article and while I don't know about Brinton, but I find it hilariously misleading.   However, his conclusion that no economic model can easily take the place of our current system I find distrubingly ignorant.  For Liberty is an economic system unto itself, and to return to it is as simple as the Congress taking back all of its constitutional powers (Art. I, sec 8 & 9), placing their proposal, debate, and vote all within the Public Forum, and away from all the agencies (domestic and foreign) and private corporations that control and operate those powers today, behind closed doors and in private.   Washington calls this "the common weapon by which free governments are destroyed."

It's that easy, and we would see the revitalization of America beginning in no more than 90 days.   Ninety days... 90... days.  But America must Elect A New Congress, and herein lies America's salvation.

I find it unfathomable that Zero Hedge will not print the blog, but they print this drivel.   Either both are sadly ignorant or syncopants, and while I doubt the latter, they make a strong argument for the former. 

No wonder America is and remains in a staged crisis.   Too bad, when we can do so much better.

Serfs Up America!

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 16:18 | 2640839 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Americans had an enormous advantage over the French.  Blessed by being far from the Crown the colonists got used to pretty much running their own business and had learned the basics of government with their assemlies. Congress is the key to a peaceful revolution where we use the Constitution to free us from crony capitalism and the march to totalitarianism.  Don't tread on me.  This ain't Europe. 

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:33 | 2641341 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

You're high dude

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 16:23 | 2640849 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Kindly go back to DailyKos or Drudge or whiched statist rag forum you prefer. Elect a new congress, and watch history repeat itself yet again. Serfs up indeed.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:37 | 2641367 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Elect a new congress?

You're out in left field

Politicians are purchased, not elected

catch a clue dude

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 14:52 | 2640635 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Sometimes civilizations just fade away, roll over and die, wither and turn to dust, crumble slowly in the shifting sands.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 15:17 | 2640690 toady
toady's picture

I was hoping for a fiat evolution essay, one where it evolves to where it can grow without limits, because that's what will happen.

I just don't see how fiat can evolve fast enough. It'll probably just go extinct.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 15:38 | 2640750 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Who can write this kind of articles?

Oh, yes, a US citizen.

It takes at least that to reach such a quality.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 16:09 | 2640820 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Revolutions are a perfect example as to why "evolution" is a farce.  Using this as a comparison demonstrates the shallow thinking of this writer and his condescending view of his potential readers.

Evolution is a farce because the laws of physics and nature dictate that life, energy, and order will die, deplete and turn to chaos.  Nothing "new" came from the "exceptional" American revolution.  The Founders reverted back to the oldest laws and principles on planet earth......God's law and the Bible.  That and that alone made it exceptional.  The French revolution degenerated into the blood bath that it was and gave us secular humanism that is the mother of all "isms" like socialism, fascism, communism, collectivism, etc.  It was the rule of God vs. the rule of man.  You may disagree with this but you can also disagree that 2+2=4 and you would be just as wrong.

Holding on to an outdated farce like evolution in the light of the laws of physics and nature we know is like holding on to the idea that the world is flat.  You may not agree that God created the world and everything in it, but to say that it all "just happened"....."on its own" is an admission of stupidity and foolishness.  If it did just happen all on its own then your wonderful "evolution" is just as magical as my God because those things don't happen in the natural world.  Evolution must have determined the laws of physics and nature along the way as well since they didn't take affect until the process was over.  But wait a is still going isn't it?  Well at least in the microscopic world that only really smart guys in far away labs with very powerful microscopes can see and then tell all us average dummies that the laws of nature and physics continue to be defied and broken so the great hudini-evolution can continue its work.

I challenge all comers.  I can destroy you theory in five or less comments.  And to get started here is the first.

Evolution is built on the principle that things (life plant and animal, the world) is getting better, improving, growing stronger, etc.  This of course breaks the second law of thermodynamics. 

NASA Astronomer Robert Jastrow commented on these implications when he said, "Theologians generally are delighted with the proof that the universe had a beginning, but astronomers are curiously upset. It turns out that the scientist behaves the way the rest of us do when our beliefs are in conflict with the evidence." (Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers, 1978, p. 16.)

Jastrow went on to say, "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." (God and the Astronomers, p. 116.)

Revolutions are a perfect example of societal entropy and further PROOF that evolution is a farce.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 16:25 | 2640851 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture


Right because the world is precisely as old as the Council of the Nicene Creed and not a day older. Gotcha.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 16:31 | 2640862 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

I am not really sure of the Council's date or time line.

Do you know of an older body of laws or principles?  These fall into the category of "timeless".

Maybe your chimps wrote something of which we weren't aware.  Do us and yourself a favor, don't be critical without reasonable arguments and facts.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 21:06 | 2641413 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Darwinism is the equivalent of telling me the more times I crash  my car the better it will run.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 23:13 | 2641573 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Darwinism is the equivalent of telling me the more times you crash your car, the less evolved you are.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:43 | 2641004 Landrew
Landrew's picture


Try reading the article! First look-up the word evolution, maybe you will find the definition the author is using. Why would everything written revolve around any god. Really, look the word up and maybe your mind will  evolve.  


Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:50 | 2641021 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

I am well aware of the definition of evolve and evolution.  Maybe you can explain to me how I have missed the point of the article since it is pictured with a Dodo bird and makes several reference in comparisons between biological evolution and governmental/societal evolution.

Instead of sending me on a wild goose chase in some "reference" book, why don't you do us all a favor and enlighten the group about the details of what I don't understand and how I have missed the point?

Just don't make me wait too long, please.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 18:06 | 2641046 rsh00
rsh00's picture

Your "first comment" is a lie and destroys nothing. At best it exposes your ignorance and lack of appreciation of both evolution and thermodynamics

Evolution is built on the principle that organisms that are well adapted to their environment thrive. If you are not adapted to your environment, then you die out. The environment itself keeps changing and hence the survivors keep changing. Otherwise we would all be "better, improved versions of dinosaurs" and nothing like today.

You talk of second law of thermodynamics as if life is in contradiction to it. Reality is that life works perfectly in harmony with the second law of thermodynamics. Our bodies are always hotter than our environments (to use the temperature difference to extract work). We always eat food and eliminate the s*** never the reverse. When life itself works well with the second law of thermodynamics, then evolution also works very well with it. Evolution cannot exist without life, as we are not talking of any other type of evolution.


Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:42 | 2641378 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

rsh00 - you are correct. that guy sounded like a Troll to me

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 22:36 | 2641530 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

Not a troll, but a statist and fan of the multi-party system.  His "state" is out there somewhere a whisper beyond his last breath and ruled by someone who never had his name on a ballot and can't be recalled or impeached.  This party is chosen over other parties who also make similarly impossible claims and promises and take credit for everything good that ever happens in the celestial economy, while blaming others when things come up short.  And nobody has ever put a better spin on adversity:  it's all part of a Master Plan (this includes childhood cancer, tsunamis, and the tornadoes drawn to the statist's trailer park almost like the fifth input into the Unified Field Theory).

There's 1x10^56 individual atoms out there among His constituents, and countless muons and quarks and bosons, but He still has time to worry about some 12-year old's math exam results and bottom-of-the-ninth walk-off home runs.  No wonder His followers don't demand the right to vote! 

But watch out, because other parties and other candidates are making a run for Supremacy.  That Mohammedan Party is rapidly gaining support across the Green States, though traditionally they've only been big in the Koran Belt.  Personally, I'll wait for the debate, as soon as a new moderator is found.  It was going to be Christopher Hitchens, but apparently one of the candidates did away with him.  Frankly, I think it was a conspiracy---ALL of the candidates are guilty.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 16:28 | 2640855 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

The reason for revolutions can be expressed in multiple ways but all lead to the same conclusion.

Let me put it this way: "Men will be ruled by the Bible or the bayonet."

In other words men will do their God given responsibility or they will be forced in various degrees by the government.

Example:  "Love they neighbor as thyself" is the Biblical responsibility given.  When people become so greedy and selfish that they will not help their neighbor, then the government will come in and start social programs to force you to do so.

Example:  Fathers are to take care of their children.  When men don't do this, the government comes in and garnishes your wages to do it for them.

Example" "Thou shalt not steal".  The scenario here is an obvious one as many are.  I could go on but the point is made and irrefutable.

The bottom line is that men have the responsibility to live their lives by a certain code and when this code is not followed, the powers that be will come in and force their idea of the code upon society.

When government is or becomes selfish and greedy and uses the "bayonet" to force society further and further into its mold of what it believes is right and when said government has strayed so far away from the principles of God given responsibility, at some point society will say "Enough!" and take action to throw off the burdens placed on it by the government.

We went through this and accomplished this very thing in 1776.  What has happened over the years is that every time society becomes derelict in its duty, government has stepped up and forced that duty on society.  Once that process begins it is a slipper slope that turns to totalitarianism at some point.  We are almost there and need to remember that most of it is our own fault.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:18 | 2640946 sitenine
sitenine's picture

"The bottom line is that men have the responsibility to live their lives by a certain code and when this code is not followed, the powers that be will come in and force their idea of the code upon society." ... "We went through this and accomplished this very thing in 1776."

Your thesis is that men aren't following a code, and that's why government has to step on our throats, and if we somehow throw off government, then men will start following the code again, why?  You lost me big time.

several points:

1) There are no 'men' left in America.

2) 'code'? - WTF are you babbling on about?

3) TPTB can go fuck themselves.

4) 1776 has not a god damned thing to do with what's going on today.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:33 | 2640985 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

First of all, I don't know what TPTB means.

My code/creed comes in the form of the Bible.  Others have a different one but the basic laws of human decency should be included.  Summed up by "love thy neighbor as thyself".

Your #4 point is exactly what this is about.  The problems we are having in this country are as a result of deviating so far from the original point.  1776 gave the world the greatest country it has ever seen.  What happened?

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:48 | 2641017 sitenine
sitenine's picture

You can shove your bible up your ass.  Never in my life have I read anything as perverted and sick.  You've got the most righteous man on earth ready to murder his son because god told him too.  You've got the most righteous man in town offering his daughters for the town's people to rape.  Jesus, I could go on, but I won't - this is seriously what you hang your hopes of salvation on.  Righton - for your sake, I hope that your god does save you.  Good luck with that BTW.  I'm done here.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:58 | 2641035 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

You have been done for a long time.  It is obvious you don't know anything about the Bible.  You are just parroting what you have been told.  If you had any serious desire for knowledge and truth you wouldn't be so belligerent and closed minded about something you know little to nothing about.  Making inflammatory statements about some sensational portion of a story in no way makes you knowledgeable much less an authority on the subject.  Have a nice life.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 18:25 | 2641051 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Pay special attention to 19:8

Pay special attention to 22:2-5 & 9-10


Now, fuck off.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 18:47 | 2641109 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture




Religion is for fools who can’t think – it is a tool to control people and a tool to help people answer questions their simple minds can’t get a handle on.


Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:44 | 2641381 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

I didn't realize the board was your exclusive territory that you could demand others to leave when they disagree with you.


I love the way you people get all tough and demanding when you are "on a line".

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 03:25 | 2641714 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture


Are you a 16 year old child?  Heres my two pence worth.  The bible was written by men, therefore an agenda was being pushed, you believe the word of men from 2000+ years ago, good for you, some of us dont.

You type like a spoiled child, grow up and stop ramming your false beliefs down others throats.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:45 | 2641383 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

1776 has EVERYTHING to do with what is happening today

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 23:05 | 2641558 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Seriously?  You mean they had the same debt ridden fiat money printing ponzi problem then too?  That's news to me, but since you wrote it in all bold I'll take your word for it.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 18:35 | 2641098 rsh00
rsh00's picture

And what if the Bible itself contains the bayonet?

Unfortunately for religious believers, there exist no God given "responsiblities", only those that you undertake as a man and as an animal for your survival or your happiness.

If God's laws were so immutable and inviolable, then we would have no need for Man's laws, the justice system, or its enforcers. We would have no need, in fact, for preachers of such God's laws, since they would be so profound and obvious that everybody would follow them lest they immediately suffer from violating them. Ergo, there would be no need for the birth of Jesus nor the existence of the Bible or the Church.

But since all of these exist, it must mean that God's "laws" as stated by self proclaimed "speakers for God" are not absolute. The absoluteness of laws makes them true or false. Let's take your examples and see where the absoluteness of these lead:

Example 1:When people become greedy and selfish and not help their neighbour, the neighbour will likely attack you for possessing much more than your needs and take away a part of it (or all of it by killing you). There is no absoluteness beyond that.

Example 2: When fathers don't take care of their children, the child will likely suffer, and may die due to it. That's the extent of the consequence.

Example 3: If you start stealing, then...well, your stuff could also be stolen from you. Or you could get caught with the stolen stuff and lynched by a mob. And that's that.

So wake up and use that one thing that God has actually given you...a rational, logical, and sensible mind. Instead of suspending reason and logic, use them for a change. Critically evaluate all things that are thrown at you and form your own opinion that are coherent with what you already know to be true. And if there are things that you don't know, admit that you don't know...instead of relying on blind faith to protect your lack of knowledge.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:52 | 2641390 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

I have real all of you counter post and am replying to this one first.

Let me first say that if everyone loved their neighbor as themselves we would not need law and government.  Problem is no one follows this rule all the time.  Just like everyone doesn't obey the speed limit all the time so we have authorities to enforce the law.  Obey the law be left alone.

Your replys to my examples are meaningless and hypothetical.  The bottom line is people are law breakers and the more they break the law the more government tightens down.  This article was about revolution right?  When governemnt tightes down too far, as it always does, then people revolt.

I am very rational and logical.  I can critically evaluate that you are an amature in these subjects.  Some, like you, need help with their opinions because they are pretty weak.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 23:43 | 2641605 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You may be rational and logical, but if you are, you suck at science (re: evolution vs. thermodynamics).

The Bible is not really a book full of rationality and logic.  If you personally managed to distill a single point from a thousand pages that perfects your experience here on Earth, good for you: you can put that on a bumper sticker and leave the superstitious stuff that causes so much conflict out. 

That'd be a rational thing to do, anyway.  I'd be happy to support the quest for men to treat their neighbors as themselves, but I've no interest at all in dominion theories from a bunch of yahoos who died thousands of years ago.  They raised some good points, and we've come a long way since.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:06 | 2640924 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Just the very fact that a reasonable individual 'might' have legitimate cause to fear posting his thoughts to this thread tells ME that we are already at war.

It is not a matter of when do we rebel....It is a matter of how we rebel successfully.

Zerohedge is glorious and beautiful to be sure.

Zerohedge is also obviously not the innards of true revolution because you cannot broadcast that and expect to achieve shit.

Forming relationships that refuse to be compromised by the beast is likely IMHO the only chance we might have.

Community that won't take the bait.

They truly only have the power we let them have which is essentially just what we accept giving.

Stop playing the game and it will end.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:12 | 2640934 Vidar
Vidar's picture

The solution is not religious nonsense or more statism, it is freedom. As long as a culture has more desire for power than for liberty, the state will grow and we will have problems. Only a culture which deserves freedom is able to keep it, and in order to deserve freedom you must have more desire for liberty than for power. We can not have a society of second-handers where everyone is more concerned with what others are doing than what they themselves are doing and keep our freedom. If you want freedom then try to reach out to your friends and family and make them understand that they must give up the desire to control others if they want to be free of others' control. The Golden Rule is really a law of the nature of consciousness.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:29 | 2640975 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

"religious nonsense"?  "law of the nature of conscience"?

Where did you get that psycho-babel you just posted?  "Only a culture which deserves freedom is able to keep it"?  HEY!  WAKE UP!  You are still dreaming.  That is why we have laws.  Because people want power more than liberty.  They want to control and look at the actions of others rather than themselves.  Men continue to believe they can run their own lives and continue to make mess after mess of them.  We in this country have this thing called a Constitution that does just that with regards to our governmental relationship.  "The Golden Rule"......Seems I heard that somewhere before........Oh yeah, Jesus said that didn't He.  BTW that is just commentary on "Love thy neighbor as thyself."

I am so thrilled you brought up that "conscience" thing since we also are discussing evolution in today's topic.  See WE have a conscience and the animal world does not.  I would like to know how one biologically "evolves" a psychological phenomenon called the conscience.  Why would I want to evolve a conscience?  Life would be so much easier without one.  I could do whatever felt good and shun all that displeased me with no regard for right or wrong.  Never feel guilty.  Never be ashamed.  Never be morally wrong.  AND have the greatest excuse for my animal behavior......."I didn't know it was WRONG."

See we have a statement in the HUMAN world that goes like this, "Ignorance is not an excuse for the law."  You can't murder someone and say you didn't know any better.  Why?  Because we have a conscience.  Where did that come from?  I am sure you have your "theory" but that religious "nonsense" thing called the Bible tells me that it was given to me by my Creator to SEPARATE me from the animal world.  See when a male lion kills the cubs of a former pride ruler, we don't hunt him down and try him for murder.  If you kill you stepchildren......well you get the picture. 

Why is this so hard for you people?  I am sure many of you are smarter than I am.  Quit trying to find another answer or figure some way that 2+2 doesn't equal 4.  The solution is to follow the rule Book and keep our responsibility.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:33 | 2640984 sitenine
sitenine's picture

"I am sure many of you are smarter than I am."

Finally, something you said that I can't argue with.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:35 | 2640991 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

I have said a lot that YOU can OBVIOUSLY not argue with.

Until you can, I guess all that is left for you is to go on just being another smartass instead of just being smart.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 18:54 | 2641121 rsh00
rsh00's picture

Sorry to break it to you....but "conscience" is not the prerogative of humans. Animals have it too. Read the story of the Lion that killed its trainer in a fit of anger, but then felt so bad, it actually fasted unto death after that.

On the other hand if "conscience" were present in all human beings, then too, we would not need laws, for no one would act contrary to his "conscience" and not own up to it. Thieves would admit to their crime, return the stolen stuff, and punish themselves in whatever manner they felt fit. Murderers would hang themselves after their first murder...and so on.

Conscience in humans can also be merely the fear that what he does to another may in turn be done to himself tomorrow. Notice that we have no problem in killing and eating cows, pigs, or chicken for food. Why is that? Isn't taking their life equivalent to murder? Fact of the matter is, in today's world, the cow, pig, or chicken can't capture a human, kill it and eat it as food. Hence we don't worry about it, and go about it like it is usual business.

Our laws, both judicial and religious, are built around the precept that humans are supreme beings of this world. In fact, they would not be accepted by you or the rest of the masses otherwise!


Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:57 | 2641398 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Dude, are you for real?  You really believe a lion "felt" bad about killing someone?  You have been watching way too much Disney and just revealed that anything you say is very suspect.

We need laws because people deny their conscience and do what is wrong when they know better.

News FLASH!  We ARE the supreme beings of this world.  In your case, we can make an exception, if you would like.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 19:52 | 2641220 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Nicely said.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 20:07 | 2641242 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"....., and in order to deserve freedom you must have more desire for liberty than for power."

For what it's worth I think you must have is a greater desire for liberty than for safety.  If you want "guaranteed" results and expect the man in charge to keep you safe, you pretty much became his bitch.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:13 | 2640937 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

I like the way you chickens give me the thumbs down........but you CANNOT argue with the truth and logic can you?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.  The great thing is not being smart but rather being right.  I am thrilled to let someone else have the credit for the truth or the principle.  I just love being humble enough to realize and accept the truth and standing on it like a Rock.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:49 | 2641019 Landrew
Landrew's picture

We also know not to bother discussion with someone that does not believe gravity exists. You have made up YOUR mind and there is no discussion, why bother. Why not speak to what the author is exactly writing about.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 17:54 | 2641026 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

I think I am the one that believes something exist and you are the one that denies any existence.  So your premise is flawed by 180 degrees.  I am more than willing to discuss.  I have spoken about the author's subject and expounded even further, since, like I said, he is shallow in his thinking.

Maybe you should comment about something you know and believe in rather than ridiculing what you don't understand or believe.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 18:13 | 2641068 Landrew
Landrew's picture

You dumbass have no clue what I or anyone else here believes! How dare you take the position you are a GOD! How dare you! Go away TROLL!

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 18:58 | 2641130 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



Fuck you cunt.


Where was the hand of God when the planes were slamming into the trade towers?

Where was the hand of God when genocide was going on in Africa?

Etc, etc, etc.


A child rapist goes to heaven if he is “saved” at the last minute but someone who has never hurt a fly burns in Hell for all eternity because he doesn’t believe?


More people are killed in the name of God than anything elese.


Science RFOL just throw that out …., Earth only 6000 years old ROFL …. Noah’s Arch RFOL you have got to be kidding.


Most people don’t believe ….. funny how many people don’t believe once they know that you don’t, seen it many times.


Sorry to be rude – just a long hot day at work, and yes, on a Sunday.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 21:10 | 2641426 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Are you saying God did all those things or that He should have stopped them?

Seems to me that men were responsible for those actions.  Are we to be robots or free will humans.  God determines right from wrong but doesn't make people's choices for them.

"More people have died in the name of God than anything else."  Did God kill them or did men kill them and say they were doing God a favor?

My whole premise regarding this article is that men will make the right choices and govern themselves or they will be forced by a governmental authority.  From a speeding ticket to treason, we have choices to make and we make the right ones or gov steps in.

Next step: men get worse and worse and continue to refuse to do "right" and gov gets more and more eggregis until they become the enemy of everyone's freedom and then there is revolt.

Somewhere along the way the deviation from the right choices set the oppression in motion.  What is your basis for what is right or wrong?  Obviously by your comment, it is yourself.

So here's the deal you red knecked prick.  If you could come to my little domain in this big wide world, I would teach you about right and wrong while on my property.  I would be your government and wash you little mouth out after I gave you the ass woopin' you really need.  Then you could make the choice to obey the law or get stomped again.  Now was that is the country bumkin' language you were looking for?  Now get back in the shallow end of the pool where you belong.  RFOL

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 11:37 | 2642757 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



I am too burnt out for an argument or debate. It is your right to post what ever you want and I was wrong for attacking you in the way I did.


Sorry for the bad language.


Look forward to going at it again with you one day.



Mon, 07/23/2012 - 13:56 | 2643232 Rhodin
Rhodin's picture


I am puzzled by this.

Could you explain the wrong choices the Jews made in Germany that caused the Nazi government to "step in" and execute about six million of them?   Can you explain the wrong choices made by the Ukranian farmers that caused Stalin's government to exterminate them?  Can you explain how the government killing fields in Pol Pot's Cambodia were caused by the mistakes of his victims?

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 18:35 | 2641097 Griffin
Griffin's picture

I think all life forms and all kinds of civilisations will always become extinct at some point.

The first sign of life was found in Greenland and is believed to be 3800 million years old.  Somewhere between then and now something crawled out of the sea and evolved into the smart ape, the Homo sapien, who only recently in its 200 thousand year existance decided that he dominates the earth and nature.

If you think about it, everytime the lifeform that started this voyage many million years ago evolved, that change was controlled by nature, so it can be said that nature forged us in every aspect from the very beginning into what are now.

I belive that everytime nature creates something, it has a built in defence system, so nature can get rid of things that cause imballances in the system, like a body tries to get rid of a splinter for example.

The more disconnected we get from our origin and nature, the sooner we will have run our course. If we were to become extinct, it would be because we evolved from the path we should have taken, and become a threat to the thing that made us.

I think this is how species get extinct because intelligence can not keep up with the speed of change.

The other more common way for species to be extinct is simply because they cant defend themselves from progress and the Homo sapien way of life.

Civilisations also evolve, but they seem to do it in jumps, like the current one we live in has gone trough the age of sorcery and magic to the age of religion and now the age of science.

Everytime a change occurres it comes after a crisis, some period of hardship.

I think the when the next crisis hits us we could move into a age of more spiritual thinking, starting with analysing what we have already gone trough.

There are some things of interest in all 3 of those things, and lots of things that are not useful, like stuff that has been made up for all kinds of reasons, ignorance,money and greed for example.

What ever happens, the world will go on, with or without us.









Sun, 07/22/2012 - 18:50 | 2641110 DeliciousSteak
DeliciousSteak's picture

Planet Earth is a living organism, and humanity is its sperm. At the moment Earth is blowing its motherload to space, but the ejaculation hasn't fully begun yet as only a few drops(people) have come out and managed to get outside the influence of Earth. Earth is just like any other organism and wants to spread its DNA to other parts of the universe, this is the purpose of humanity. I know it can be a bit disheartening to realize that you're sperm but when you think that we have a great purpose then it becomes easier to accept. So remember kids, remember to have kids to fulfill your purpose - if not you're defective and shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 19:34 | 2641189 Landrew
Landrew's picture

Interesting thoughts, I work in science yet I don't discount a God or Gods existence. When someone like I do believes in membrane theory of the universe, God/s theory of the universe sounds far more reasonable. Most of my friends are devotedly religious. High energy physics is far nuttier than the bible but I believe and I respect thoughs that hold the bible as truth:)

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 21:14 | 2641436 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Are you the same guy who accused me of not believing in gravity or are you using his idenity?

Jekell and Hyde, my friend, Jekell and Hyde.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 21:59 | 2641490 1835jackson
1835jackson's picture


Whilst true in theory and I stress the word "theory" evolution is a fucking lie of epic proportions.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 23:44 | 2641606 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

This "article" is just an introduction to something that might be interesting to read.

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 00:14 | 2641625 stiler
stiler's picture

but it isn't written scientifically or even in any ordered way.

Dear Dodos,

"Once upon a time, millions and millions of years ago..."

Evolution is a fairytale, indoctrinated at very tender ages. And then there's that damn thing called the corruption of nature for all to see.

Yes, but... creation is even so.

But it agrees with  you, saying, "God is a hidden God" (Isaiah) only revealed through special revelation to those with faith.

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 03:24 | 2641713 Flying Tiger Comics
Flying Tiger Comics's picture

This retarded description of evolution isn't even accurate enough to be wrong.

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 03:37 | 2641722 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"Off with their heads!"

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 05:00 | 2641750 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

Revolution is evolution and both are going forward. why do free market evangelists want to go back?


The answer is in the question.


After the revolution people won't be so bothered about making money and storing capital - they will value what is truly valuable......


....each other.

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 15:09 | 2643455 UrbanBard
UrbanBard's picture

I am tempted to believe that what is going on is a counter revolution to the age of enlightenment and the limited republic. The power mad and the rent seekers are getting poor results. Hence, the current regime is breaking down, just as it reaches for more power and wealth.  

Walter Russell Mead has an interesting viewpoint.

Before we can guess at what will replace it, we must decide what the current regime is. The Twentieth Century was the triumph of Fascism. This is a definition of beliefs, not a curse word. The Fascists in America are mostly in the Democrat Party. Fascism takes many forms because it is a kind of oligarchy. It is rule by politically connected majorities.

Communism could not compete with it, because Fascism allows nominal ownership of property, while the state regulates it. A Fascist government allows enough freedom so that people can take risks and profit from that. As people prosper, so does the society. But, the Obama Administration is shutting down most of that freedom. It can’t understand why the US economy won’t recover. Obama is mostly a Progressive, but he has had a long association with Communists.

It looks as though a reaction is forming, but it is anyone’s guess where this will lead us. The old “Blue “ model is ending in the West. Our social institutions are mostly superseded by technology, but what will replace it is unclear. The devil is in the details.

Wed, 08/01/2012 - 03:46 | 2667877 ertgdg
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