Wednesday, December 8, 2021

Why Vedas are critical for modern world

This is the second and concluding part of an interview with Subhash Kak, a famous Indologist on Vedic sciences and mathematics. The first part can be read here).

Q. One of the things you have mentioned is the Gundestrup Cauldron (Scientific American, March 1992), something that was unearthed in a peat bog in Denmark. Apparently it shows strong evidence-Including goddess-images similar to Lakshmi and Hariti and a god-image similar to Vishnu-of cross-cultural connections between Indic civilizations and those of far northern Europe. You have also noted the apparent connections between Celtic/Druidic pre-Christian cultures of Europe and Hindu practices. Is this merely circumstantial evidence or does it prove conclusively that there was a migration of peoples westward from India, rather than eastwards into India (the Aryan Invasion Theory)? 
A. There is whole lot of evidence that proves that Indian ideas, if not people (that is apart from the Gypsies), travelled from India to Europe. Indic people were apparently present in Palestine, Turkey, Babylon in the 2nd millennium BC. The names of the ruling dynasties of these places and some Sanskritic inscriptions tell us this. The father of the beautiful Nefertiti, Queen of Egypt, was a king of the Near East named Tusharatha or Dasharatha.

The Puranas also say an Indian tribe called the Druhyus emigrated west. Whether they emigrated all the way to Europe, we cannot say. What is likely to have happened is that an Indic element became the political and religious aristocracy in many countries, all the way up to Europe. This may also explain the parallels between Indian and European mythology.

Q. What are the parallels between Indian and European mythology? 


There are still deeper connections, and these have been examined by the scholar Georges Dumdzil in a series of fascinating books in Rome, the rajbrahmin dichotomy of India was paralleled by the rexflamen division. The injunctions to the flamen -the keeper of the flame – are very similar to those to the brahmin. The gandharvas in India had a shadowy role related to music and fecundity; in Rome this was assigned to centaurs. Dumezil found enough parallels ‘to fill five or six books. Joseph Campbell, also wrote about these connections in his books, as have many others.

After the Old Religion of Europe was extinguished, Indian myths continued to influence Europe. From the lives of Krishna and Buddha, a nascent Christianity adopted the stories of miraculous conception and birth, the star over the birthplace, the twelve disciples, and the various miracles. Parables such as that of the pious disciple whose faith makes it possible to walk on water, or the story where the Plaster feeds his numerous disciples with a single cake or bread were borrowed. Medieval Christianity took some Indian Jataka tales and transformed them into accounts of Christian saints. The most famous of such instances is how a Buddha legend from the Lalitavistara became the story of Barlaam and Josaphat!

A. It never vanished. There was a shift of population after the economy around the Sarasvati river collapsed due to the drying up of the river. People moved to the east and to the northwest and to the south. There was no break in the cultural tradition. The same ceramic styles continued. Only the level of prosperity went down. The Vedic books also speak of a period-when the rishis went to the forests, the age of the Aranyakas. The Puranic books speak of a catastrophe in 1900 BC.

Q. Your work in archaeo-astronomy suggests unambiguously that the Max Mueller chronology of the Vedas must be rejected and that the Rig Veda must be dated not to 1500 BC, but to 3000 BC. What is the impact of this? 
Q. Well, if not 3000 BC, certainly prior to 2000 BC. Max Mueller was absolutely wrong. What is the impact of the new dates? It changes the history of ancient India and that of the rest of the ancient world. It gives a centrality to India in world history.

Q. Your recent book with George Feuerstein and David Frawley, In Search of the Cradle of Civilization (Quest Books, Indian edition to be published by Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi), suggests that in fact India was the site of the very first civilization, not Sumer in Iraq. If this is true, then India has not only the oldest continuous and, surviving civilization, but in fact it is the birthplace of civilization. Could you elaborate on this? 
A. Look, India has had cultural continuity for at least 10,000 years. Before that we had a rock-art tradition which, according to some estimates, goes back to 40,000 BC. Not only are we one of the most ancient civilizations, we have found in India the record of the earliest astronomy, geometry, mathematics, and medicine. Artistic, philosophical and religious impulses, central to the history of mankind, arose first in India.



Q. These fire altars are at this time obsolete, right? Nobody uses them any more, or is that not so? The only time I have heard of them before reading your work was when I read of an impoverished Nambudiri (Kerala brahmin) family Whose illam or house was being sold, and they had fire altars in the shape of a falcon, and the old head of the household said this 5,000-yearold tradition was dying because they couldn’t afford the rituals any more. 

Q. You have mentioned a connection, apparently evident in the Vedas, between internal and external things-for instance between the rhythms in the human body and astronomical cycles. Could you elaborate? 

The connections between the outer and the inner were also represented by other symbols. The 108 sun diameters from the earth to the sun were paralleled by the 108 beads of the rosary for a symbolic spiritual journey from the normal state to one of illumination.

Q. I have read the book edited by you and Dr TRN Rao (Computing Science in Ancient India, University of Southwestern Louisiana Press) on some surprising mathematics: pi to many decimal places, Sayana’s accurate calculation of the speed of light, hashing algorithms, the binary number system of Sanskrit meters – are these mere coincidences or is there conclusive evidence of advanced mathematics? 

Q. In particular, I am amazed, as a layman, by the evidence that Sayana, 1300 CE, who was Prime Minister at the court of the Vijayanagar Emperor Bukka I, calculated the speed of light to be 2,202 yojanas in half a nimesha, which does come to 186,536 miles per second. 



Q. How has the reaction been in scholarly circles to some of these discoveries and conjectures of yours, which do turn conventional wisdom-on its head? In India, you are aware, some of your views would have you branded as “reactionary”, “Hindu fundamentalist”, etc. 
A. My work has been received most enthusiastically in scholarly articles both in the West and India. I have written several scores of scholarly articles and reviews and am in the process of writing major essays for leading encyclopaedias. School texts in California and other American states have been rewritten. Likewise, new college texts in toe US speak of these new findings. We are talking here of hard scientific facts, they can neither be “fundamentalist” nor “reactionary”. But I am aware that some ignorant ideologues in India may actually pin pejorative labels on this work. This only creates opportunities to bring facts to the attention of such people. I am ever hopeful of converting more and more people!

Q. How has your work in the history of science affected your research in computing science? 

A. Self-image is a central factor in our development. We eventually become what we want to become. We need faith in ourselves. That is why a cultural focus is so crucial. I think our current self-effacement is a result of the negative stereotyping we have experienced for generations. Our schoolbooks talk about Socrates, Plato and Aristotle – and rightly so – but they don’t mention Yajnavalkya, Panini and Patanjali, which is a grave omission. Our grand boulevards in Delhi and other cities are named after Copernicus, Kepler and Newton, but there are no memorials to Aryabhata, Bhaskara, Madhava and Nilakantha!

Q. Is self-image, then, sufficient reason for us to explore the past? 


Q. Any messages from you for your diasporic readers? 
A. Pay attention to Indian and world history, there is much to be learned from the past. Also go to the spring wells of Indian tradition, you’ll find great treasure. Indian ideas provided central themes to the American transcendentalists in the early 19th century which led to American culture as we know it. I believe even more vital Indian ideas will transform world culture in the coming decades, and if you choose to be the interpreters of these ideas to the modern world you would have participated in the most wonderous drama of our times! 


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