Dr. Cate Shanahan, author of Deep Nutrition and Food Rules, pulls no punches when discussing how our conventional view of screening and treating cancer could be ill-advised.

Unsurprisingly, the “conventional” ways of viewing many things in our world do not hold up anymore – and this of course includes the food system, the hospital system, and most importantly, how we perceive health-care and the concept of sickness in this country. Could it be that we have actually gotten some crucial things wrong when it comes to how we view the screening and treatment process for cancer?

If anyone would know, it’s Dr. Cate, as she has always been ahead of the game. Early on in her career, she had an epiphany that would change the course of her life: “My goal of making people healthy was not in alignment with the hospital’s goal, which was taking money out of sick people.” We once lived in a world where patients spent 90% of their doctor’s appointments simply talking to their doctor, but now, 90% of your appointment time is spent doing expensive tests! Still, Dr. Cate admits that when she first began her journey as a doctor, she naively believed that there had to be one hospital out there with a different way of doing things. Unfortunately, as we all know now, that’s just not the case.

Thankfully, we have radical thinkers and pioneers in the medical field like Dr. Cate, who dedicate their lives to truly helping people heal. Referencing the work of Dr. Thomas Seyfried, Dr. Cate explains that cancer is actually a metabolic disease, rather than a genetic disease. This implies that instead of aggressive chemo and radiation treatment to attack cancer at the genetic level, dietary modification could be the most effective strategy. This aligns with the Warburg Effect principle, which suggests cancer cells feed preferentially on glucose, at a rate greater than regular cells. The idea is that starving cancer cells of glucose with fasting and ketogenic eating patterns makes it possible to shrink tumors and heal. To put it simply, metabolic diseases are most effectively treated through metabolic treatments.

While it might be unsettling to rethink the template strategy of cancer fighting, Dr. Cate’s commentary can help you reflect further about how your thoughts, beliefs, and food choices affect your overall health. Unfortunately, there are so many things that most people do in daily life, from certain lifestyle habits to not being aware that their salad dressing contains vegetable oil, that actually promotes cancer. There are so many hidden dangers lurking in this world, but luckily, Dr. Cate knows exactly what you need to do to protect yourself from them, so enjoy this discussion with one of the great leaders of the ancestral health movement, and be sure to read Deep Nutrition to learn the hows and whys about choosing the most nutritious foods that your genes expect for optimum health.


How hospitals extract money from people [5:30].

It used to be that 90% of your appointment time was spent talking to your doctor, nowadays, 90% of your time is spent getting tests done [11:10].

The myth that catching cancer early on is better is not always true [16:45].

Metabolic problems need to be solved by metabolic treatments [21:40].

Why Dr. Cate feels like she is “cancer-proof” [28:30].

Familial and genetic diseases have a degree of penetrance, which is your chance of developing the disease [34:00].

The four foods that will give you everything you need [43:00].

30-40% of the average person’s daily calories come from “non-food” sources, like vegetable oils, which actively promote cancer [47:25].



  • “My goal of making people healthy was not in alignment with the hospital’s goal, which was taking money out of sick people.” – Dr. Cate Shanahan
  • “Studies show mitochondria cannot function when they have a certain concentration of vegetable oil that they’re supposed to be trying to burn for energy – it shuts them down, they cannot produce energy.” – Dr. Cate Shanahan


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Get Over Yourself Podcast

Brad: 00:00:22 Cate Shanahan,

Cate: 00:00:24 Mr Brad Kearns,

Brad: 00:00:25 Those of us watching on YouTube, I could say nice shirt. So check us out on YouTube. Also, the background is spectacular. This video and is your new home of Florida. So once again, we get to talk about geography. You’ve seen the, the best of the country.

Cate: 00:00:44 I have, I feel pretty lucky.

Brad: 00:00:46 What do you think of central Florida here?

Cate: 00:00:48 Well, I was surprised that when I came down to Orlando the first time that they have these beautiful live Oak trees, it’s, they’re just like stunning trees. And so I love trees. And um, that was, uh, that was the thing that enabled me to take the leap from where I was in Connecticut, which I kind of moved there for the trees as well. So,

Brad: 00:01:09 We’re thinking Palm trees 100% in Florida, but here in central, these magnificent trees with the growth hanging down. It’s like the movie set

New Speaker: 00:01:18 Spanish moss Those are called live Oak.

Cate: 00:01:21 The trees that big with a huge canopy. Yeah, the draping canopies. Those are live Oak trees. Yeah, they have them in California too. They’re what? The beautiful picturesque Oak trees. Like the, you know in the, when you think of Napa Valley and all that kind of stuff and that, but we have them decorated with the Spanish Moss.

Brad: 00:01:40 Oh, decorated. I see you have the tree decorator comes and like throws it up there and dangles it down.

Cate: 00:01:46 The Spanish Moss fairies. Yeah.

Brad: 00:01:47 Oh my God. Also, it’s cool as you’re on this beautiful Lake and we’re basically in the middle of the state. But I was told by boating experts yesterday that you could, if you wanted, get all the way to the ocean. So we tried, we went for a few lakes and saw the whole thing with the little connecting pathways through the jungle and fantastic.

Cate: 00:02:07 Yeah, it’s beautiful. The canals, they call them. So there’s just like so many birds you can see and even little baby alligators and all different kinds of trees. So it’s lovely. I, I had no idea it was so nice down here.

Brad: 00:02:23 Uh, So do you want to tell about your top secret job? Because it is interesting what you’re doing and what the most progressive companies in the, in the country are doing now.

Cate: 00:02:31 So I came down here for, uh, to Florida. I never in my wildest dreams imagined I would live in Florida. Um, and because I was kind of happy like up where there’s four seasons. But one day out of the blue, a gentleman named Charlie Bales gave me a call and said, Hey, uh, you know, I your book Deep Nutrition, Deep Nutrition, it’s pretty good. Um, can you come and consult for my company?

Brad: 00:02:56 Just a fan boy called you up one day?

Cate: 00:02:58 Yeah. But he owned his own company and he was starting to get into, um, the health insurance angle, like in the human resources department and, um, starting to get into like the expenses and how to control the health insurance costs. And, um, he had implemented the principles of nutrition in Deep Nutrition along with, you know, other things that he’d come across and sort of like having the typical journey people go on from believing like athletes go on his, he was an athlete, um, from, you know, the, the low fat kind of way of thinking.

Cate: 00:03:40 Um, and flipping that into weight, no, it’s all that was all wrong, let’s think of a more holistic way of thinking about nutrition. And so he kind of went on that journey, um, after reading Deep Nutrition and it, there was a radical change in not only his health but most important to him was um, his daughter. Like she had had such severe asthma attacks that they like were constantly rushing to the emergency room. They actually built a house near to the hospital so that they wouldn’t have to get stuck in Orlando’s pretty awful traffic, you know, whenever she was having an asthma attack. And, and, but since making the changes that she’s, she’s not really had that, like, not at all or like one zillionenth of whatever, the rate of, of problems. And so he was so convinced, um, that it could actually really help reduce costs.

Cate: 00:04:28 in his company that he’s, he just kind of cold called and said, you know, uh, can you, what do you think you could do for me? And I was like, Oh yeah, I could show you guys all, all kinds of, you know, I could teach you or I could teach your employees, but I’m not really allowed actually in my current job to do that kind of outside consulting without getting permission and on and on. And so he, but he kept like relentlessly calling to try to figure out a way to make it work. And ultimately he said, well, what if I just hire you? And like without skipping a beat, I was like, yeah, heck yeah. Because it kind of is like the opportunity of a lifetime for a doctor like myself. Because when I was working in the corporate hospital system, my goal of making people healthy was not in alignment with the hospital’s goal, which was taking money out of sick people or you know, make it so that making sure people would get enough tests done so that the hospital system could kind of extract money from people whether they were healthy or not.

Cate: 00:05:41 Um, the matter of the hospital system has found a way to extract money from both groups. Um, and so, um, and I was tired of that and that’s kind of why I had moved all around the country because I, I was naively thinking that there was some hospital systems that would be different. But you know, I came to realize while I was in Connecticut that that was not to ever come to pass. And so, um, when Charlie called and said, you know, w w you can just work for my company, um, keep people out of the hospital. Yeah. Then, you know, his company’s interests are to keep people healthy. My interest is to keep people healthy. So there’s an alignment there that I’ve never worked under before. And the experience is just like, it’s transformative. It’s, it’s like going, you know, from an abusive relationship to a totally loving relationship.

Cate: 00:06:37 I mean, it’s just like amazing. So I love this job. I love this company, ABC Fine Wines and Spirits and, um, they love their, their family and their employees and they want to take care of them. That’s why they hired me. Um, and even doing so, there’s still so many barriers in place by like the, the laws even that have, uh, made it a little slower going to get the program started. I’m like, I’ll all kinds of Arista laws and, and stuff around patient confidentiality and HIPAA and, um, like regulatory stuff. You can’t spend too much money on this or that. So, um, so many things in place to try to make it difficult for employers to really take control of the health control health care that they are paying for health. Uh, healthcare in this country is pretty much 50, 50 funded by the government.

Cate: 00:07:30 Um, you know, in the military, Medicare, Medicaid and um, and companies, um, private private companies. And um, there needs to be a revolution in the way that private and the options that private private companies have to be able to provide insurance for their employees. And that revolution is quietly like the way that the nutrition movement was kind of building back in 2002 and 2004, uh, was just sort of starting and there’s a few doctors that were kind of doing things different. A lot of little bloggers and podcasts were just starting to pop up. Well, I feel like the same thing is kinda happening in the insurance health insurance world. I mean, no one ever thinks of health insurance as being exciting and having potential for a revolutionary change. But, um, now I do, now that I know how it works and how the system works, um, I, I think that, you know, it could really save trillions of dollars for, yeah. Yeah.

Brad: 00:08:32 We see the billboards in California from Kaiser Permanente, the biggest provider, and it’s all about thrive and be healthy and they are talking about prevention. And wellness and, and things like that. But I haven’t really seen that touch point besides the billboard. I mean, they did donate to my kids’ fitness charity years ago. So they supported and a community activity and they’ve known to do that and sponsor the giant marathon run and things like that. So they’re in the health and wellness game, unlike previous years where they were this giant building that you go to when you’re sick. But at the start you said that, you know, there was that misalignment. And I would, I would say this is not a, a sinister evil, you know, premeditated, uh, uh, attempt to keep people sick. But when we, when, when you make that comment, there are some things happening that are, that are designed this way. So I wonder, like, can you expand on what’s going on that these, these, um, this system is, is, is messed up and kind of pushing us in the wrong direction.

Cate: 00:09:40 It all boils down to primary care and the role of the primary care doctor.

Brad: 00:09:44 Hello, primary care doctors, Dr Katie, Dr Steven. Okay.

Cate: 00:09:49 So the poor primary care doctor who really can, who’s really trained to take care of like 80% of your problems, um,

Brad: 00:09:58 gateway to the healthcare system is,

Cate: 00:10:00 yeah, the doctor who is supposed to be your advocate doesn’t have time for any of that anymore. We’re, we get, you know, seven minutes to see you. And if you come in with, you know, a problem, we can’t solve it in seven minutes, so guess what we’re going to do, we’re going to refer you. So, so instead of somebody who say, let’s say they, they’re a like, uh, an 80 year old who’s a little bit dizzy when they stand up, right? So they go to their primary care doctor and they mentioned that as part of the physical maybe at the tail end.

Cate: 00:10:31 Right? Um, and uh, at that tail end, you know, the doctor’s already like running behind, looking at his watch. He’s starting to get a little bit of a palpitations themselves because he’s like, Oh, I know I’m going to get docked on my RVU units, which is how, you know, how they get paid if they don’t keep up their numbers. Um, so he’s, he’s, instead of sitting down with a sweet little lady and saying, well, you know, you’re feeling dizzy when, what? Like maybe when you stand up or maybe after a long day and you’ve been dehydrated, or do you have any chest pain? And asking a series of questions. Just basically taking a history in the way that doctors are trained to diagnose, just by listening, asking questions that we don’t need tests. You know, 90% of it is supposed to be talking. And that’s what I learned in medical school.

Cate: 00:11:15 But now I’m, 90% of it is testing because we don’t have time for the talking. So we refer. So we refer to a cardiologist and I’m actually talking about a real case, um, where, so this little old lady was referred to a cardiologist and the cardiologist said, Oh, palpitations. Oh, you know what? Well, I think, um, we better do a fancy version of an EKG called, um, a halter monitor. And so the halter monitor found, um, a couple, um, a couple little funny little blips. And with that, um, the doctor said, well, you might need a pacemaker. I want you to get this other test where you have to be knocked unconscious so we can do some sophisticated testing of the electrical conductivity of your heart. Now that, that test is super expensive, um, and has some risks, you know, you could, uh, have blood clots from it.

Cate: 00:12:07 You could have bleeding, you get problems, you could get go into arrhythmia, we might need to shock your heart. Um, and she was kinda scared. So she went back to her primary doctor and said, do I really need that test? Thank God this was in a situation where the, um, the, the second opinion, it was another primary care doctor that she went to that stopped the whole thing. And this isn’t a growing aspect of primary care called direct primary care where the, it’s almost like concierge where, um, the patients pay a subscription to have access to the doctor went as many times as they need in a given month. Um, and the doctor talks to them, you have half hour appointments and they just had a conversation about, well, okay, sure. So I know you have these little blips on your EKG, but are there any of them symptomatic and did you ever have any problems? And by the way, let’s get back to that original dizziness you you brought up was, which was the reason you went to the cardiologist. And it turned out she was just a little dehydrated and she didn’t need anything. And after talking with a primary care doctor who wasn’t too busy to listen, um, she, she was, she was fine. She didn’t need any tests, no more drugs, no more risk, no pacemaker. She just needed to be reminded to drink a little more water or stand up more slowly.

Brad: 00:13:23 So one solution could be somehow allocating more time with that first point of contact and having an educational experience with a primary care physician

Cate: 00:13:32 that that is an existence already. It’s just quiet. There’s hardly any of it. And it requires really savvy doctors, business savvy doctors. And most of us are not, I can speak from personal experience, but it’s um, the model, the system, the name of it, which you could Google if you’re a listener and you want to find if there’s a doctor like this near you, um, is called direct primary care. It’s also known as concierge primary care, but it’s not really like, you know, super expensive. It’s just like maybe you pay $150 a month and you pay that whether or not you go see the doctor, but on the months where you need the doctor, you will be able to go as many times as you need to get your problem sorted out and solved. Usually it takes a couple of visits, it takes time, it may take some tests, but a good primary care doctor is very judicious about the tests that they order. They consider something called false positive rate and the, you know, the risks and benefits of testing. And, and that is super important because false positives are potentially deadly and they waste a ton of money. And some folks, um, have done some sophisticated analysis on like what is the cost of all these false positives and the estimates are somewhere in the billions

Brad: 00:14:44 and how are they potentially deadly?

Cate: 00:14:46 Because let’s say you took that little old lady and she did get like the, the, the treatment, right? Let’s say that she, um, she got, um, they found that there was a little focus of abnormal electricity that sometimes went off in her heart and they wanted to zap it out of existence, but they zapped a little too hard and um, the, the vessel started bleeding and she bled out and died. Right.

Brad: 00:15:12 And didn’t need the test in the first place.

Cate: 00:15:13 Right.

Brad: 00:15:13 So she goes in that category. Deadly, false positive. Doug McGuff was writing in the primal prescription about the false positives from the mammogram screenings. Yes. And so they have a false cancer diagnosis that they eventually find out is, um, is incorrect, but the metabolic consequences, the hormonal consequences to the, to the person who’s been diagnosed with cancer, they were observed to last for six months and they were identical to the person with cancer. So if you get told, Hey, you get cancer, um, your stress hormone spike, your immune system is suppressed, you’re wigged out, it’s, it’s a, you know, a crisis.

Cate: 00:15:53 that makes total sense and.

Brad: 00:15:54 you don’t have it, but you have the exact same profile. Yeah.

Cate: 00:15:58 So maybe like most of our toxicity of our experience with cancer is that because we also know that cancers often don’t do anything bad. Like, um, yeah. So like part of, um, there’s a, there’s a doctor that maybe you want to have on your podcast. His name, uh, last name is Welch. He’s out of Dartmouth. Um, and he’s a super plain talk and super bright guy and he’s done all kinds of analysis on, um, over-diagnosis and, um, the assumption that early detection is better. He’s tested that hypothesis and found it to be false. Um, and he was inspired to do this by one of his own patients where it was sort of a crotchety old guy from New Hampshire, New Hampshire, you know, your Do or Die state, you’re not going to tell me what I’m going to do with my life. So he, this gentleman was, I’m like, uh, I don’t know. It was probably a smoker, I think that was diagnosed with kidney cancer and just didn’t want to get even a biopsy. Um, like. possible kidney cancer, right on a cat scan. That was, that was done for something else around his, around his smoking, around his lung issue. Um,

Brad: 00:17:16 uh, it’s just watch this grow for a while, see what happens.

Cate: 00:17:20 And it didn’t grow for 10 years and he died of something else.

Brad: 00:17:24 So they would have zapped that thing and put chemo into his body. The kidney, no doubt. Right.

Cate: 00:17:29 And he would have gone through all the torture of, of, of chemo, which we, you know, we think cancer is a genetic disease. So we treat it with powerful, you know, anti, uh, cell division therapies. But there’s a whole line of thinking that cancer is a metabolic disease. So those treatments are just purely toxic. That’s a book title by a doctor, Thomas Seyfried, genius dude out of somewhere in Boston. I forgot what school, but, um, there’s a lot of, you know, super bright people there and he’s one of the super brightest. Um, and, uh, so just like the idea that first of all, if you, if you assume cancer is a death sentence, the way we do, you’re going to over-diagnose and overtreat it and that has a ton of toxicity. And secondly, when you do diagnose cancer, well, what if you’re treating it all wrong so that you end up, you know, mostly harming people out of the process of your cancer treatments. Um, and um, so it’s just looks, it starts to look like a really rigged system and kind of the way I describe it, um,

Brad: 00:18:42 car repair shop or they’re like your manifold twists carbon turbine thing is loose and it’s a, I wouldn’t, uh, I wouldn’t let it go. You need to have a overhaul. Oh, okay. It’s my car. I’ll do what you say.

Cate: 00:18:55 Yeah, it’s a, it’s very much, slightly sleazy like that. But you know, I think of it almost like as a shark, you know, like a shark is a machine designed to eat. And one of the, one of the things that it does is it swims and swims and looks for victims. Well that’s the advertisements that say just get your physical, make sure we want to do this early detection and, and the shark has these teeth that once you get in its mouth, the teeth point backwards. So you can’t, if you’re in that mouth you are, you can’t get out. The teeth. Everything is getting you into the belly of the shark. And that is what our healthcare system is. It’s that shark that is drawing you into its belly so it can take you from your mind and your take your money from you while talking about your health and in some ways also taking your health from you tragically. Because if you believe anything about what I’m saying here, you take a person who may have a cancer that would never kill them and you start treating them for it with highly toxic drugs that aren’t really treating the right problem. Because what if cancer is a metabolic disease and we’re treating it as a genetic disease. You end up getting an infection from the chemotherapy and you end up dying instead of just never even knowing you had a cancer and having a healthy immune system that fights it off for you, which we know happens.

Brad: 00:20:23 So this cancer is a metabolic disease instead of a genetic disease. Would this be kind of in that same belief pattern where we’re thinking that the genes are our destiny rather than we control them in every moment with our behaviors? Thoughts, exercise, food choices?

Cate: 00:20:40 Yes. It’s very much like that. It’s

Brad: 00:20:43 so, it’s like this fixed belief pattern that we now we now recognize cancer as a genetic disease in general, in the, in the Western medicine.

Cate: 00:20:53 That’s what we’re talking about. That is the dogma that we are taught that there’s no doubt like what you, what I learned is there is no doubt cancer is a genetic disease. If you have cancer, that’s because in your cells, some gene went wrong and started dividing and dividing and dividing and it was just like a mistake that your DNA made and your body couldn’t get it under control. Um, but there, we’ve found that cancer cells in one person say, who has like breast cancer. One breast cancer cell may have different mutations than a neighboring breast cancer cell and may look very different. So just, uh, if you know just that, that means, so these two mutations just so happened to happen in the in neighboring Canton cells that like does that starts to make it like how did that really happen? But if you think of it as a metabolic disease and you realize that we all have all these unhealthy metabolisms in ways that I describe in my upcoming book, The Fat Burn Fix. Um, but you know, you don’t have to be a doctor or read the book to know that people are overweight and have, there’s a lot of diabetes and other chronic diseases, um, that that is a metabolic problem. And that is one of the consequences of all that overeating the junk foods that we do, um, is w we develop obesity, we develop diabetes, we develop autoimmune diseases and we don’t cancer. And it’s a metabolic problem that can be reversed with metabolic treatments.

Brad: 00:22:24 What one to two to 3% of cancers are genetic diseases. Correct. That you’re, you’re screwed. And you, you were a little kid that got cancer eating healthy or whatever. Right? There’s some section of the,

Cate: 00:22:37 there are, yes, that’s So that’s a really good point because people have heard of like the gene for breast cancer, the PRCA one gene and some other genes,

Brad: 00:22:45 non lifestyle related cancers. Also, I’m asking about,

Cate: 00:22:49 um, like, like what for example,

Brad: 00:22:52 I don’t know. You tell me, are there any,

Cate: 00:22:55 um, well we, we, we think like the common thought of cancer is, um, that you have a genetic susceptibility and there may be like lifestyle factors that, um, cause genetic mutation and then that exacerbates that mutation to become, um, more severe and have more mutations and more mutations until you finally develop such a mutated cell that it turns against the body and becomes cancer. That’s kind of the standard way of thinking, but, but they’re really, the genes aren’t driving the situation because, and we know this because some really cool experiments that were done a long time ago and that had been repeated. Um, since, um, I’m talking about like the forties, I think there was a gentleman named Otto Warburg, um, who was a Nobel prize winner, not for this research, but for other research he did cause he was just a genius. He actually took, um, cancer, uh, he experimented with cancer and took like nucleus of a cancer cell and put it in a healthy cell to see if that would turn into cancer. And most of the time it’s not. And then he took the mitochondria of the cancer cell and put it in a healthy cell and see if that would turn into cancer. And most of the time it did. The mitochondria,

Brad: 00:24:16 is this the Warburg effect?

Cate: 00:24:18 Yes.

Brad: 00:24:18 That’s the cancer cells feed preferentially off of glucose.

Cate: 00:24:23 Yes. And glutamate.

Brad: 00:24:25 So that’s how we discovered that it’s a metabolic disease in the forties and we haven’t, we forgot it or something.?

Cate: 00:24:30 Yeah. We’ve, we did much better research in the 30s and forties on like true healing than we have done since.

Brad: 00:24:38 Is that, cause you could mess with people more back then, like the uh, the Cagle experiments starving. I mean, the best Keto experiment to date is the starvation experiments with Dr Cahill in the 60s or something. Now we can’t do that anymore?

Cate: 00:24:52 Um, we, we could cause you don’t have to starve people to get people into ketosis. You just have to, you could just, well, yes, true. And you could just, you could also,

Brad: 00:25:00 you could do a starvation keto experiment?

Cate: 00:25:01 Starve if people you want to, what you want to do is you want to study people who are fat adapted, right? You don’t need exactly more of that. So we don’t need to do anything that’s questionably ethical. So yeah. So to answer your question, no, it’s because we, we were not conflicted because our, our scientists and the people funding scientists, there was a thing called the physician scientist back in the day. Doctors used to work four days in the clinic and one day in the lab and that was [inaudible].

Brad: 00:25:30 The Google employees do great things. Many of the Google innovations came on that 20% day. They call it a Google where the engineers are allowed free time. G mail came from a 20% day.

Cate: 00:25:43 Wow. Yeah. So, the, so that’s the way medicine was. Like the doctor was a scientist and the doctors were, were brilliant. I mean they were just brilliant and they were able to figure out all this stuff and they weren’t conflicted. They didn’t go into it with any preconceived reconsidering notions which happened in a powerful way. When you’re getting funding from somebody with an agenda. And almost, almost all of our funding now comes with an agenda of some sort. Even from the NIH. The agenda might be, you know, we want to get children to eat less, less saturated fat because it’s just assumed that, you know, having whole milk is bad for kids or something like that. So there’s, there’s strings attached and that drastically interferes with the scientistic scientific process. It because it biases our brain and we can’t see what’s right in front of us.

Brad: 00:26:32 So, uh, to pick up our conversation from dinner last night, for the listener, if we, if we got diagnosed with cancer today, what would we do? You and I and anyone else who wants to hear from Dr Cate, what’s the first thing you do or tell me to do?

Cate: 00:26:49 I would recommend if you are a patient, um, is I would go over your diet and try and, you know, figure out is there something that you are doing wrong, they should stop doing wrong immediately and um, and start doing better. Um, and then in terms of like going through this standard chemotherapy and everything like that, um, you know, that’s an ethical conundrum. What’s the word, conundrum, quagmire right now? Like

Brad: 00:27:18 it’s not seen as an ethical quagmire to anybody.

Cate: 00:27:20 Yeah, I got cancer. It’s like you, you assume that you got to go to your, get your chemotherapy, but, um, I, I would tell them to watch a few of the videos of Dr Seyfried, um, before they do any drastic chemotherapy. Um, I have a question mark in my head about whether surgery is beneficial. About whether radiation is beneficial. Um, but I do know that dietary changes are beneficial, so,

Brad: 00:27:46 um, can’t possibly hurt.

Cate: 00:27:48 Right, right, right.

Brad: 00:27:50 So honestly, well.

Cate: 00:27:51 if you’re doing a good diet, I mean if you, if I were to tell them I want you to have more French fries and you know,

Brad: 00:27:55 I mean no dietary intervention. That’s I guess we don’t agree on what’s healthy. I just did a podcast with Rip Esselstyn and get over yourself podcast. So the vegan diet is seen as the ultimate. Okay. So let’s say we’re going to go to the diet route and you yourself would roll the dice on a diet intervention and sit back.

Cate: 00:28:15 For my personal self. Yeah. Like I would look and see, okay, well let’s say I wasn’t already doing everything I could, I would definitely double down and be more serious. But I feel like right now where I’m at, I feel like I’m cancer proof because.

Brad: 00:28:29 Dr Cate cancer proof show. That could be a book title. I mean that’s, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean the fat burn fix is going to make you cancer proof too probably. Cause we just heard about the Warburg effect.

Cate: 00:28:43 right, right.

Brad: 00:28:45 Cancer proof subtitle maybe.

Cate: 00:28:48 Well the, I think we, we, you, we could do another book about, you know, how burning fat helps you become cancer proof. But, um, but, uh, so I would just, and I have done this where I’ve worked with people to, um, if they’re diabetic, they need to reverse their diabetes. Um, they need to be able to get off their diabetes medications. They need to be able to become fat adapted. They need to cut down on their protein, they need to be in a weight loss state. I do everything that Dr Seyfried, Thomas Seyfried recommends. Um, now he’s taken it several steps further by, um, coming up with interventions that only doctors could, could do, like, and only could do in a monitored setting. Like people in

Brad: 00:29:32 yes, stick some insulin. Well, Peter Attia did it in his backyard setting and nearly lost his life apparently from sticking himself with insulin. But that’s a, that’s a cancer protocol.?

Cate: 00:29:46 Exactly. And it’s being done. So, um,

Brad: 00:29:48 in someone’s backyard?

Cate: 00:29:50 In Turkey

Brad: 00:29:53 In Turkey.

Cate: 00:29:53 Yeah.

Brad: 00:29:53 What a show! That’s why this is my favorite guest., Oh my gosh. Okay. So cut. We’re going Keto. zero carbs probably with our cancer diagnosis and then we’re jumping on a plane to Turkey, Turkish airways. Don’t they have those nice commercials and the nice sleeping quarters. Okay,

Cate: 00:30:12 that’s soothing. Yes. And hopefully you have a stress free ride to Turkey.

Brad: 00:30:16 Would the zero carb be a starting point necessarily?

New Speaker: 00:30:20 I don’t know about zero. So what you want to do is you want to get somebody with my philosophy is slightly different than the way they do it over there. They kind of dump people into it all, all at once. And I feel like you need to ease people into it personally. So if it were up to me, I would work with them first, ease them into it and then hand them off to these other guys. And once they become, you know, a lot metabolically healthier where they can handle a lot fewer carbs without having hypoglycemia symptoms and feeling, you know, going through the [inaudible].

Brad: 00:30:49 Oh sure. Well you forgot, I forgot that part. We’re fat adapted when we got our diagnosis. So now we’re going to jump on, jump on board and go crazy. But if you’re not, oof, you can’t just fast all day. And fight your cancer.

Cate: 00:31:03 I feel like that could be stressful. So I feel like let’s avoid that too and go through just a short period where you are becoming fat adopted. And you know, that may take a couple of weeks, may take a couple of months depending on how far you are down that road of diabetes. Um, which is a long road. Um, but um, but so the insulin therapy that they do is different than what Peter Attia did. So at least if I’m remembering, if we’re talking about the same conversation, so it w what Peter Attia did is something called the euglycemic insulin clamp where you’re not just giving yourself insulin, you’re also getting an infusion of glucose at the same time. Now if he had skipped that infusion of glucose, I think he probably would have done a lot better because what the infusion of glucose does is it shuts down the ketone and the infusion of insulin a little bit like the, and the amounts that he did.

Cate: 00:31:56 Cause he gives so much insulin when you, when you, it’s just a lot more insulin involved I think than what they do over in Turkey. And that amount of insulin shuts down your ketone production. And so you’re working against the goal of ketone production and that’s why he almost died. But if you do it by a different protocol, you closely monitor people who are fat adopted. It makes total sense to me. You can drop your blood sugar levels down to, you know, 10, 20 maybe and you starve the cancer of one of its two fuels. There’s a number of other fuels that cancers can use. And Dr Seyfried has come up with another drug that helps to starve it of its other major fuel. But there’s a lot of fuels cancer cells can use. So we can’t even guarantee that that will be a win. But it will definitely give you a leg up. Um, two legs up maybe, uh, maybe four legs up. It gives dogs a lot of legs up because they do this more in animals and um,

Brad: 00:32:49 and the smooth transitions, they, Dr Cate, you’ll have a leg up, you’ll have two legs up, you’ll have four legs up. And I’m literally true. Okay.

Cate: 00:32:59 Yeah. Cause they’ve done this sort of thing in dogs because they can be more aggressive and it’s had just fairly miraculous results in dogs. Yeah. With advanced cancers. Yeah. In this country,

Brad: 00:33:12 uh, you, you’re, you feel like you’re cancer proof now before you need to go to Turkey. Why is that?

Cate: 00:33:19 Because I do believe that cancer is a metabolic disease and I believe that

Speaker 2: 00:33:23 All cancer or is there anything we can separate out?

Cate: 00:33:27 Mmm. No.

Brad: 00:33:29 Certain organ or this kind of cancer, that kind of cancer. I don’t, they’re all downstream from metabolism.

Cate: 00:33:35 I’m not an expert, but my take on it is no, I think they are all downstream from metabolism.

Brad: 00:33:40 So when I asked before about the genetic diseases, this would be things outside of the cancer realm, like Huntington’s disease or, uh, you know, misprint on your chromosomes. And then you get these terrible conditions that you had nothing to do with your lifestyle. We had nothing to do with you were born with it or whatnot.

Cate: 00:34:02 Right? Um, so that every, every familial and genetic disease has, um, something called penetrance, like a degree of penetrance. Meaning if you have the gene for Huntington’s, what is your chance of actually developing Huntington’s? And maybe say it’s something like 80%, but it’s not 100%. I don’t think there is one that’s 100%. And that has to do with epigenetics and your metabolism and all these other things and the body as a system. It’s not just genes. Your genes are not your destiny. And so in Deep Nutrition, uh, our first book, Deep Nutrition where genes need traditional food, um, we talk about the epigenetic part of it, why your genes are not your destiny and why your diet has such a powerful role in controlling your destiny. And you know, we don’t use the word metabolism a whole ton as much as I do in my next book, The Fat Burn Fix where I help you meet your metabolism and we talk about metabolism, what it is and all this and how do you speed it up when you lose weight and all these kinds of questions. Um, but um, in Deep Nutrition, I just explained a lot about how your genes need your diet to be, um, full of the same nutrients that your ancestors got and their ancestors got because they’ve, they’ve been programmed by generations and generations to function best when they get this. It’s kind of like the operating system of a hard drive, right? You need to have the, the, the food is like the operating system in the hard drive is your genes and you can have a hard drive that has a glitch, but if you have a really good operating system, you’ll never know it. And vice versa. You can have a beautifully perfect hard drive, but if you have a terrible operating system, you’re not going to get anywhere with that computer.

Cate: 00:35:54 And so that’s the analogy. there is like you were born with your hardware and your diet is your operating system. And so you have so much ability to control your, your, your, the destiny of that hardware, that genetic hardware by following a healthy diet. And in Deep Nutrition we talk about, you know, what is a healthy diet. Like we decided, we define it scientifically, but based on traditions, it’s like still to my knowledge, the only book that scientifically analyzes all world cuisine to see what they have in common. Like we go beyond just like, you know, there’s this book, the blue zones. We, we don’t just look at four zones to see what they ate and with a bias view and say it was all what we thought it was going into it, which is, you know, mostly plants a little bit of meat.

Cate: 00:36:39 But, um, we, we actually look at cuisines around the world to see what they have in common. And that’s what’s in the book, the four things plus a lot of other stuff. But, um, so yeah, so even if you have a gene for a disease, even if it’s a gene for cancer, the gene for breast cancer that [inaudible] with an 80% penetrance, which is a really, really scary number. Um, I still believe that if you don’t get your boobs lopped off and your ovaries taken out and you follow a really good diet that you have way better than a 20% chance of survival. Um, and you know, I’ve, I’ve spoken with a couple patients who didn’t even want to get the VRCA one gene testing, even though they qualified to get it because they had the family members with it. They didn’t want it because they intuitively knew what you said earlier, which is just that diagnosis of something scary, of a potential for cancer could totally throw them off their game forever and they didn’t want to go there.

Brad: 00:37:36 Wow, that’s heavy. I guess they’re, they’re going to be obligated to get screened extremely frequently or something.

Cate: 00:37:43 They, they, they have the option. Um, and uh, yes. If the, if the gene comes up, sorry. Yeah, they, they’re obligated. Not exactly obligated, but they are, they’re pressured to get the, the, the gene that, the screening for the gene. Right. And then once you get screened for the gene and if it’s positive, then you are heavily pressured to get screening for breast cancer with frequent MRIs and all that.

Brad: 00:38:07 Just like anyone with family history, they want you to go in there all the time.

Cate: 00:38:10 Yeah.

Brad: 00:38:11 So Seyfried thinks that maybe you shouldn’t do this stuff or let’s say whether you decide to or not and you get a a positive on the image, then we’re supposed to consider waiting a bit and just doing metabolic therapy out of the gate for a while before we hit with the hard invasive drugs?

Cate: 00:38:33 I can’t speak for him. I think that is what he has said. Yeah. That’s what I say and yeah. Yeah. And, and um, the other Dr. Welch, so if you put the two doctors together, this Dr. Welch says, you know, maybe we shouldn’t even be screening people so aggressively. Maybe we should screen the, but not so aggressively. Right. Let’s wait until the cancer is a little more advanced. And like it show signs that the body’s having a hard time controlling this or something, you know, maybe, um, maybe we don’t need to find it when it’s, you know, a millimeter. Maybe we can wait. Maybe like there’s, maybe we should focus on trying to figure out which cancers are aggressive and, and just focus on catching those. But we don’t have, we haven’t done that. So we don’t have that ability just yet. But those, if you, so if you take what he says Welch, well, we shouldn’t screen you so often. And then you take what Seyfried says and says, well, once we find a cancer, we shouldn’t even treat you with chemotherapy. You put the two together and you basically have a lot of people happy walking around wearing the yellow color that I’m wearing, holding hands and being shiny and happy and not worrying about cancer every single day of their life

Brad: 00:39:35 to Biology of Belief. Bruce Lipton, ageless body time was mine. Deepak Chopra, they’re manifesting a longevity mindset and a health mindset. Maybe they are getting a dysregulated cell division and snuffing it out the next morning.

Cate: 00:39:50 Absolutely. You put that in there too. And like you can just cut healthcare costs, you know, massively overnight.

Brad: 00:39:57 However, most people are out their stuff in their face with shit. They should probably get in and get screened because they’re going to bake cancers left and right. Deliberately. Almost.

Cate: 00:40:08 Yes. And the problem is there’s so many people now in this diet, I know better than you game. Like I’m going to tell you what the diet is, what diet is the best diet. Oh, PS, it’s my weird diet. And um, you know, I say that if you just cut out gluten, well that’s all you need to do. Well, I say that if you cut out lectins, that’s all you need to do. Well I say, but if you call it, Oh vegetables, that’s all you need to do. I say if you cut out meat, that’s all you need to do. So I mean like who do you listen to, right.

Brad: 00:40:38 That’s four different people to listen to. And that’s.

Cate: 00:40:40 just to start with

Brad: 00:40:42 to video. Now people she rock, those four different personalities, she came to life in different positions of received.

Cate: 00:40:49 So,

Brad: 00:40:50 Right. So this is great. I mean what do, we were so confused and then we go from one podcast to the next and this example, um, the, the carnivore thing is hot right now. My microphone, the one that you’re using is smoldering hot from Rip Esselstyn going off on the plant, strong of boiler plate and people, you know, whoever makes the most compelling case or whoever’s nearest to you. It’s, it’s a, it’s a rough battle out there.

Cate: 00:41:18 Yeah. Yeah. And people are confused and people even who are my patients are confused and there’s so many reasons to be confused cause there’s so much conflict of interest and that’s why our book, our first book, Deep Nutrition is long and so involved because we want to kind of start from the beginning of the conversation and see if we can carry you through the whole train ride until you come to a place where you’re like, okay, that made sense. And now I’m empowered to understand whether other people’s arguments make sense. But honest to God, you have to read the book like three or four times before you get there. And I apologize for that. I wish it could be more simple, but then the book would have to be even longer.

Brad: 00:42:04 You got better shit to do. I know everyone’s talking about Game of Thrones. I’ve never seen it before. It’s on my list. I’m being pressured to see it. Just like I’m being pressured to go get my colonoscopy when I’m 50. I turned that one down. I made a reasonable decision. Talk to Dr Cate had the pipeline. Uh, listen to what Doug McGuff had to say about the, uh, the screening risk itself, just like the old lady versus the benefit. Anyway. Um, so go read Deep Nutrition. You tell me you don’t have time. My goodness. Yeah. Fabulous stuff. But, um, we have a whole plot, a whole show on the four pillars, but I guess we should drop those in so we get a little bit of context. So this is the commonality among our ancestral experience, our ancestral diet. And there’s four categories of foods.

Cate: 00:42:52 Yeah, they’re fresh foods, fermented. That’s the number one. And they’re not any particular order except for like the easiest, right? We all understand fresh, fermented and sprouted. So we take fresh food and we alter it with, we let nature alter it. So either let the seed sprout partially germinate or we let, um, microbes interact with it and ferment it in some way. And then meat on the bone. So we use meat, but we also use the bone and the nutrients in, um, joint material and nutrients and skin and the fat that’s under the skin. And then organ meats. So we use all those spare parts that are, um, right now mostly used as a carpet backing and glue and um, and dog and cat food. But people used to eat everything and we used to get all of our nutrients from the entire animal’s body because all, all of the vitamins and minerals, if you eat the whole animal body and you eat a variety of different kinds of animals, you will get everything you need and you don’t need plants.

Brad: 00:43:47 So among the most enthusiastic eaters on whatever side of the coin they fall on could very likely be batting one for four, two for four. Um, the, the plant strong community is batting one or two out of four cause they don’t need to meet. Um, and enthusiastic Keto person who’s going into, uh, the, the um, uh, the steaks not on the bone. Nutty, not bothering with their kimchi cause they don’t like it. Uh, issuing the, uh, the fruits and vegetables are minimizing them extremely in the name of hitting this 50 grand Maketto they’re batting two for four also. Yeah. When I talked to you I was like, I’m two for four here cause I’m not eating the organ meats. I just, I don’t know how to cook liver. I’m afraid of it. It looks like a big dollar bill that got dirty. Um, and so that was a huge awakening for me. And then the fermented foods, you have to go make a concerted effort. And that’s what’s cool about the, the approach here is like, it seems like this radical diet today to go embark upon and look at and list what, what, what’s a, uh, a sprouted food? Where do I get that? But this was all we had back then. I mean, it was, it was all about, for, for, for, for hundreds of thousands, millions of years. Right?

Cate: 00:45:07 right. Whether or not you were in Alaska or Hawaii and, and I, although a minute ago I did say you can do well and never touch a plant food everywhere. People were, they did do that. So, you know, I, I, I, I wouldn’t necessarily encourage trying to do that even in Alaska where there was like very, very little plant life. There still was some, there still were things like lichens maybe there were probably mushrooms and they also ate the contents of the intestinal tract of animals that were herbivores. So they ate all that part. I mean, they ate the, when I say the whole animal, I mean the whole animal, including the gut contents. I mean it was, we can’t do that. Right. So the carnivore diet today is basically, we’re just taking the meat, right? We don’t talk very much about all the other parts of the animal. We were just the muscle meat. I mean we don’t talk, no, I mean where can you even get, uh, lungs in America, right?

Brad: 00:46:09 Ancestral supplements.com. They bottle up these hard to find things. That’s why it’s pretty interesting. We can, we can do a good job, but we got to awaken to the idea that our diet is grossly deficient. Perhaps even though we’re super healthy, enthusiastic in the top 1% of dietary awareness.

Cate: 00:46:30 Right, right. Exactly. It’s just like we’re taking a little sliver out of the rainbow of nutrient colors that we could be dipping into with the animals that we raise. And not to mention that we don’t raise them very well. That’s a whole other conversation which we’ve had. I think you probably [inaudible]

Brad: 00:46:46 well, I like to focus on this one is being cancer proof. That’s of great interest to humans and we’ve got some good tips. Uh, just maybe we should wrap it up with, um, we want to go to the four pillars. If we get cancer, we’re going to go down and get highly fat adapted and like Keto take hold. Um, what are the hot points in the other areas of life? Like when you’re consulting with your, with your group there are we looking at basic daily movement, um, sleep habits, you know?

Cate: 00:47:17 Yeah. So I do absolutely, um, encourage that kind of thing. But what I haven’t mentioned yet and is maybe the most important thing is that um, the average person, 30% to 40% of their daily calories is coming from what I have to call non food source kind of fat, which are the vegetable oils. And those things promote cancer. So when you’re talking about, um, going on a keto diet, you have to be careful about what kinds of salad dressing you get. You know, are you putting olive oil based salad dressing or are you using soy oil? Cause you’re going to not be able to re become to be like confident that you’re cancer proof if, if you’re still using the soy oil or the canola oil or the, you know, um, the safflower and cotton seed oil. All these vegetable oils that I talk about at length and Deep Nutrition.

Cate: 00:48:12 Um, and uh, you know, you want to get the better quality mayonnaise is like the avocado oil based mayonnaise is and uh, you have to do that or you are still actually eating foods that actively promote cancer because those vegetable oils, they go after your mitochondria. They damage your mitochondria. There’s studies that I cite in my next book that show that mitochondria cannot function when they have a certain concentration of vegetable oil that they’re supposed to be trying to burn for energy. They, it shuts them down. They cannot produce energy. So, um, that leads, that’s what leads to cancer in my view.

Brad: 00:48:50 So why when we go into Whole Foods grade healthy store with their high standards and their website, we will allow no hydrogenated oils into the store. We stand strong against the, the, the horrible, but the canola oils everywhere on their salad bar and all their crap. And now I’m learning that some people are saying it’s oka.

Cate: 00:49:13 Canola oil,?

Brad: 00:49:14 right. It’s fine. It’s a high Omega three that you can look on the articles going in detail why this is a heart healthy oil and you have the heart healthy symbol. I found out that that costs $600,000 to get the symbol on a product. Heart-healthy that was you, right? You told me that $600,000 you pay and there it is on there. Right? And I have elderly, uh, family members and there it is on the, on the counter. It says heart healthy. And I made a comment about maybe considering switching over to something that wouldn’t kill you and there, you know, it was a eye opening exchange and it says, but, but this is heart-healthy right there. That’s why I use it. But why does some people, how can some people defend canola oil right now?

Cate: 00:50:01 So I say you have to be able to visualize. Um, the problem and the way I try to help people do that is by seeing that like canola oil is unstable, it’s molecularly unstable. And if you have too much of it in your diet, it destabilizes and that destabilization is a problem and it, the it molecularly deteriorates. And this is where it becomes a little harder to visualize. What you have is something called free radical cascades, which is almost like radiation. It’s almost like it becomes like plutonium in your body where it degrades and it starts flying off these high energy molecules called free radicals that damage your cells. They damage your DNA, they damage your, um, enzymes, they damage everything in your cell, and your cell cannot have a chance of functioning properly. And they shut down your cells energy production. And, and so your cells have to fo learn to produce energy. Without mitochondria, they shut down your mitochondria. So the only way to produce energy without mitochondria is glucose.

Cate: 00:51:15 So you become more glucose dependent and more glucose dependent and more glucose dependent.

Brad: 00:51:19 because of the oils,

Cate: 00:51:20 because of these unstable oils that can produce energy. So canola oil be, even though it’s Omega three and not Omega six, um, is still a problem because it’s unstable. And that’s sort of a synopsis, but we’re talking about advanced biochemistry that I went to college to learn, I mean to high school, learn the basic fundamental biochemistry. Then I went to college to learn more biochemistry. Then I went to Cornell to learn more about dentistry. And that’s why I understand it. Now. It’s hard to describe this advanced biochemistry in a way that may means anything to very many people. But I try my darndest in Deep Nutrition, we have two whole chapters about the role of vegetable oil , first and causing heart disease and second and causing, um, brain disease. The second chapter talks about how it causes brain disease and um, um, genetic disease.

Brad: 00:52:25 Look on YouTube too. We have a nice video with, I think with Luke for 15 minutes, Hitting it Hard, why vegetable oils are so bad. Um, the unstability just keeping it high surface. Here it comes from the harsh processing methods. It comes from, so it’s in the bottle unstable.

Cate: 00:52:44 It is unstable in the bottle. It comes from the type of fatty acid. So the type of fatty, we have saturated fatty acids, the ones that we’re told are bad for us. Those are extraordinarily stable. Um, and what I mean is they resist reacting with us].

Brad: 00:53:01 Excuse me. Could you speak into the microphone again? The saturated fats that we’ve been told our whole lives are, will kill us,

Cate: 00:53:09 are extraordinarily stable, by which I mean they don’t react with oxygen. We always have oxygen,

Brad: 00:53:17 right? They’re saturated. They’re saturated, which is easy way to remember this. For some of you out there that are coming from the world or what have you, they’re saturated. All the, all the ions are saturated. So it’s not gonna become a free radicals when it’s exposed to heat, light, oxygen. Okay. So saturated fats are, are okay, thank you. Enough. And then enough of the rest of that message, people out there, it’s chemistry, it’s chemistry. It’s not marketing hype. It’s chemistry. Okay.

Cate: 00:53:50 So we have mono unsaturated like olive oil and um, avocado oil. Those are a little bit less stable. Um, but it turns out that they’re like the sweet spot, that they are actually the best for producing energy because they’re slightly unstable. The, this, they can be broken down in a way. It makes the body that mitochondria, it makes it easier to get energy from them because they’re just a little bit easier to break down than saturated fat. Um, but the body is not designed to get energy from these very unstable polyunsaturated fatty acids that breakdown accidentally without control, right? The, the mitochondria is a little machine inside ourselves as designed to harness the energy of oxygen and in a very tightly controlled way get bond energy by using oxygen as an energy acceptor. And you know, what does that even mean? Well, what it means is we need to breathe because our mitochondria use oxygen to extract energy from the food we eat.

Cate: 00:54:58 And not all foods are designed to be optimally burned for fuel. Um, the fats are one of the things that are designed optimally. And I mentioned earlier, the mono unsaturated fats are the best at burning, uh, are the, they produce the most ATP per like, you know, concentration of them that’s available to ourselves. Guess what type of fatty acid our bodies convert most of the sugar that we eat into when we eat too much sugar say and we convert the extra sugar into body fat. Guess what type they turn most of that into saturated or mono and saturated. They can’t, we can’t make polyunsaturated, so that’s not even on the table. The answer is mono unsaturated as if designed to take carbohydrate energy and convert it into an ideal fuel. Guess what that is designed? That is the design and you look at any mammal you look at like any vertebrate, well, I can say for sure in any mammal, that is what most of their body fat is stored as mono unsaturated fat. So whatever their diet is, they store most of their body fat as mono unsaturated fat, whether they’re an herbivore or a carnivore, their body fat is regulating the ability of their cells to produce energy by putting most of it in the form of mono and saturated fat. And when we eat too much polyunsaturated fat, we lose that ideal ratio. We lose that ability to put most of our, most of our carbohydrate energy into the form of that ideal fuel.

Brad: 00:56:47 So where does it go?

Cate: 00:56:49 It becomes saturated and that’s harder to use. And

Brad: 00:56:53 they’re, they’re all stored in triglyceride form, whether it’s mono or are saturated, right? Right. So we’re getting dysfunctional fat metabolism from consuming these nasty oils. And how, if this is basic, this is basic biochemistry lesson, thanks for hanging in there students. Um, how can anyone, uh, tout the consumption of these oils today when we’re talking about basic biochemistry,?

Cate: 00:57:17 like morally, how can they do it? They didn’t know what they’re talking about. They don’t understand the biochemistry and they haven’t looked into how that biochemistry affects the physiology of the body.

Brad: 00:57:26 So what about the dead bodies? They don’t look at it?

Cate: 00:57:30 they’re finding other reasons. You know, you can take a look at the same evidence and if your idea is preconceived that it’s because of the saturated fat, you’re going to find ways to blame saturated fat. Okay.

Brad: 00:57:41 There you go. We wrapped it all up. I mean, that’s, that makes sense, right? So we just kind of have to, um, dig deeper, get longer books maybe.

Cate: 00:57:51 Yeah, think harder. I mean, if you really want to know the answer, it’s cool to be able to listen to a podcast and get some ideas and here’s some cool ideas, but you have to, you have to do more than that to really be confident that you’ve found the right answer. And a lot of people sort of try this and try that and get better. Those people are really good at listening to their bodies, stumble into it by listening, by trying this and trying that and trying what you know, I recommend and finding that that did work best, but there’s so many, it’s so hard to do that, you know, you really do have to be willing to understand what is your core value. What is your core belief? Do you believe that nature knows best? And do you believe that nature set it all up in a way that would work best for us? Or do you believe that nature put these little minefields out there for us in the form of gluten and lectin and um, plants that taste good, right? But they’ll add the actually, you know, will kill us and we have no way of dealing with the sugar in fruit. Right? You can have fruit if your metabolism is healthy, it’s not going to cause insulin resistance if you don’t have too much all the time.

Brad: 00:58:59 Uh, would it be undisputed that a dietary modification leading to increased HDL and reduced triglycerides is, is a positive? Does anyone disagree with that? Does the, the vegan freak hippy person or the laboratory white coat, uh, canola oil employee, anyone is, is that something we could base a personal experiment upon?

Cate: 00:59:24 Um, I would recommend that. Yeah.

Brad: 00:59:26 Does anyone think they want to see your triglycerides higher when you go and consult with them? Or

Cate: 00:59:33 who will argue that triglyceride levels don’t matter as much as LDL levels? And you should look at your LDL levels and there are people that will argue that your LDL levels matter more than your HDL levels. Those people in my mind are completely ignorant because there’s no evidence that supports that. There’s so, but

Brad: 00:59:52 so for the most part, if we decide, Hey, I’m going to try this, this four pillars thing and I’m going to take my blood and see that my triglycerides are 172 now and then 30 days later they’re 72 and my HDL went from 30 to 60 by and large just about every even mainstream physician, whoever you can talk to is going to say you did some good stuff.

Cate: 01:00:15 They’re going to give you a thumbs up on the HDL going up and their knowledge about the harms of triglycerides being, you know, the ratio aspect is inadequate. So they’re not going to understand that a triglyceride going from say 140 down to, you know, 90 is a really big deal. If at the same time you’ve upped your HDL there, they’re generally not aware of the importance of the ratio. They’re really focusing on another ratio, which is your total cholesterol to your HDL level and your total cholesterol is cause completely irrelevant. And there’s a lot of people who say LDL being high is actually better. And I think those people make perfect sense. So I, I, I agree with that, but that’s really a hard sell in standard medicine. There’s cardiologists though that are saying it, you know, that are in, you know, working in institutions and working with other doctors that the doctors think they’re crazy but their patients are not dying, their patients are living and getting off medicines and losing weight and becoming healthier.

Brad: 01:01:17 So that triglycerides to HDL ratio is your favorite heart disease risk proof objective.

Cate: 01:01:25 Yes.

Brad: 01:01:25 Probably cancer proof from what we’ve learned in our in our lesson today. Very much possible. Okay, go for it people and then write back and say, Hey, my triglycerides dropped. My HDL spiked because of this and this. Thank you so much for listening. It’s great to know how to be cancer proof. I love it. Dr. Cate. Rockin in Florida.

Cate: 01:01:48 Go forth and be cancer proof everybody. Thanks Brad.


