January 5, 2008

Know Your Dictionary: Pronunciation Guides in RID99



Part 4: Pronunciation guides

Pronunciation guides follow these rules:













  1. Rikker,

    Re: "This format of แม่ X (แม่กก แม่กง แม่กน แม่กด etc.) is used in schools to teach Thai children about which final consonants make what sound." What is the difference between the "แม่กก แม่กง" and the "ตัวสะกด"?

  2. This comment got lost in the shuffle--sorry to take so long to reply.

    First off, the name for these divisions is มาตราตัวสะกด. แม่ X is the colloquial way of saying it. The more formal version is มาตรา X (มาตรากก มาตรากน, etc).

    What this represents is the organization of all Thai words into "sections" (มาตรา) based on their final sound. กก กง กด, etc. are used because those are very simple examples.

    From the RID99 entry for สะกด:
    เขียนหรือบอกตัวอักษรที่ประกอบกันเป็นคํา, เรียกพยัญชนะที่บังคับตัวอักษรข้างหน้าให้เป็นมาตราต่าง ๆ เช่น แม่กน น สะกด แม่กด ด สะกด
    "To write or say the letters that combine as a word; the letter that controls which section a word goes in, e.g. แม่กน น สะกด, แม่กด ด สะกด."

    The first sense is akin to the English verb 'spell'. The second sense is the ตัวสะกด that you're talking about: the letter of the word which defines what section it goes in, and thus what pronunciation it gets. Each word may have many letters, but only one ตัวสะกด (usually the last consonant, or the last one before the ตัวการันต์).

    For แม่กด, the ตัวสะกด could be ด ต ช จ or several others. In ราช, ช is the ตัวสะกด that defines it as a แม่กด word.

    There are a total of 9 แม่/มาตรา. The full list is:
    แม่ ก กา (syllables with no final consonant)
    แม่ กก (syllables ending in ก sound)
    แม่ กด (syllables ending in ด sound)
    แม่ กบ (syllables ending in บ sound)
    แม่ กง (syllables ending in ง sound)
    แม่ กน (syllables ending in น sound)
    แม่ กม (syllables ending in ม sound)
    แม่ เกย (syllables ending in ย)
    แม่ เกอว (syllables ending in ว)

    See here for more details. I hope that helps clear things up!

  3. Dear rikker,

    you "Know your Dictionary" is for me, a beginner in Thai language, one of the most enlightening "books" (sic) I ever read on Thai-language in general.
    Despite this, I would like to adress to questions to you:

    1. The system you call "pronounciation Guides in RID" - a system applied even in books for Thai pupils beginning to read, is there any Thai name for it? I call it TPA (Thai phonetic alphabet) trying to underline its aproximity to IPA. ... but the Thai name?
    2. "Pali and Sanskrit words that are samasa (สมาส)" ... with samasa you "apply" RTGS (Royal Thai General System [of transliteration of TPA in Latin letters] on the Pali and Sanskrit word, but not on the Thai-Word, which is in RTGS samat? I consider it slightly problematic to apply RTGS on Sanskrit (and Pali) words in RID, since on these words IAST (international alphabet of sanskrit transliteration) should be applied?!

  4. 1. Yes, I think Thai Phonetic Alphabet is what it's called, or in Thai, สัทอักษรไทย. Thank you very much for asking me this, because you led me to discover a book that I haven't seen before: สัทอักษรไทย การสร้างสัทอักษรไทยเพื่อบันทึกภาษาไทยถิ่นและภาษาชนกลุ่มน้อย
    "Thai Phonetic Alphabet: Creating a Thai Phonetic Alphabet for Recording Thai Dialects and Minority Languages". The author wrote a book I know well on the history of Thai dictionaries, so I definitely need to seek this one out.

    2. I tentatively agree with you, but I don't know IAST very well, and many people who study Thai don't know Sanskrit/Pali outside of the context of Thai itself. The reason I wrote 'samasa' was to match the counterpart 'sandhi', since sandhi is well-known term in linguistics (tone sandhi, vowel sandhi). I thought it would have been even stranger to use 'sandhi' and 'samat'. I'm inconsistent, you're right. I've used both IPA and RTGS for transcribing Thai words in different posts. Even I'm affected by the lack of a standard..

  5. 1. Thanks for the term สัทอักษรไทย. It will help me very much for my futher efforts to learn pasa Thai.
    2. How to use a Sanskit dictionary/how to apply an online Sanskrit vocabulary I have displaye in brief at
    How to apply the Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon on RID?
    (Blogger BLOGGSTOCK). I hope it is readable. I have to apologize for my poor English.