Evidences of korean relation to china

Discuss the Chinese language.
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Evidences of korean relation to china

Postby mdavid35 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:35 am

So far the response to the topic of the invention of chinese language was highly political and embarassingly emotional from chinese side. let us stick to the original topic, and present concrete evidences whereby we might have rational discussions free of the ranting so often seen in this thread.

(1) Genetic relationship between han chinese and korean. I contend that most chinese are unrelated to korean people, who are mostly of northern nomadic stocks, unlike majority of chinese who are of south east asian stocks.



(2) Dong-Yi was a part of north east china. Much of cultural advancement was conducted in that region, and it is definitely possible that korean, who ruled parts of china then, contributed to the invention of chinese characters. Confucius was born in Shandong peninsula, and it's possible that he had a korean ancestry. If we read confucius alienation from mainstream chinese culture, greedy and hopeless at his time, we can see that he may be of foreign origin, that makes him more or less unique and independent.



(3) Go-joseon was a ruler of north east asia in ancient times. Many of the ancient korean culture, as shown by the dolmens, and pyramids in that region, was lost, and external to the mainstream han chinese civilizations. It is possible that korean might have invented chinese language during that time period, as we all know that china was invaded by northern nomads so often, and occasionally being colonized and enslaved.


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Postby chairmouse » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:16 pm

hei, there are more than a billion people can use photo software to make a map.do you have some excavation can prove your assumption？

and we all know language can influence people with the mode of thinking,
So,If korea people really invented Chinese character, how come korea switch to an alphabetic writing from a hieroglyphic writing after they use it for hundred years?
Did they also invented a drug which brought a chemical change to their brain?

Ask Chinese people to invent an alphabetic write which could be better understood than Han language. sea if that is possible. or they west people to invent a hieroglyphic writing.

korea people stolen Chinese character thousand years ago, but their language thought determine the alphabetic writing is more suitable. that is why they gave up use Chinese character and invented their own.

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History of East Asia

Postby mdavid35 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:40 am




Land of Paekche

Land of Koguryo

Korea in ancient time

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Postby mdavid35 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:27 am

King Chi Wu (치우 蚩尤) of Bai-dal






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Postby mdavid35 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:42 am

Introduction to the war


The result of the war and the battle

Result and Legacy

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Postby mdavid35 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:46 am


Jaoji Hwanung of Baedal

Ja-oji Hwanung (자오지 환웅) (2707 BCE - 2598 BCE) was the fourteenth ruler of the ancient Korean Empire of Baedal. Jaoji Hwanung is better known as Chi-Woo Cheonhwang (치우 천황). Chi-Woo is recognized today in Korea as one of the greatest rulers and heroes of Korean history. He was deified as a war god in some other parts of Asia.

Chi-Woo was a descendant of Baedal's first Hwanung, Keobalhan, who had founded the kingdom in the year 3897 BCE. The Baedal kingdom consisted entirely of the Baedal people, who were later called Dongyi by those in the Huanghe river valley, also known as the North China Plains.

Chi-Woo succeeded Sawara Hwanung to the throne of Baedal during the year 2707 BCE. Upon rising to the throne, Chi-Woo was almost immediately faced with the threat of the growing influence of Yoomang, who was a descendant of the Yan Emperor, also known as Shennong. Yoomang was the 8th and final ruler of the kingdom of Shennong. Chi-Woo declared war on the kingdom of Shennong, and rose victorious at Kuhon. Yoomang fled to his close relative, Xuanyuan, also known as the Yellow Emperor. The Yellow Emperor led a tribe of his own, and merged his tribe with the Shennong tribe to form the Huaxia tribe. The Huaxia tribe declared war on Baedal, and a ten-year war began. Chi-Woo ordered for weapons to be created, and among these weapons was the first form of metal armor to be created in Asia at the time. Along with this armor was said to have been horned helmets as well. Chi-Woo's army consisted of 8 skilled generals, 81 adjunct generals, and an unknown but massive number of soldiers. Baedal and the Huaxia tribe battled each other bitterly in seventy battles. One of these battles was led by General Chiwoo-Bi, who was among Chi-Woo's younger brothers. Chiwoo-Bi was defeated at Takrok, and eventually killed at Hebei. Chi-Woo Hwanung returned to Shinshi. Upon returning, he moved the capital from Shinshi to Chung-Gu, which was located in the Shandong region. From there he ruled over Baedal and continued expanding, restoring all of Hwan-guk's territories at its height.

Death and Aftermath
Chi-Woo Hwanung died during the year 2598 BCE, at the age of 151. He was succeeded by Chi-Aekteuk, who became the 15th Hwanung of Baedal. Chi-Woo Hwanung was deified as a war god in some parts of Asia at that time. Chi-Woo's later descendants, the ancestral Koreans, also deified him and kept his memory alive, a memory that is slowly being revealed once again.

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Postby mdavid35 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:51 am

Shinshi (Hangeul: 신시, Hanja: 神市) or 'Baedal (Hangul: 배달국, Hanja: 倍達國) in Hwandangogi' was a semi-legendary ancient Korean nation that preceded Gojoseon. Shinshi literally means The City of Spirits where people live together in a protected area or The Fair of Spirit where people come together and exchange their goods.

Shishi in Hwandangogi

Founding of Shinshi State
The founding of Shinshi State is described in somewhat different ways according to the records.(see #Description of Shinshi in Historical Records). Hwandan-Gogi says that Shinshi state had been founded at the area of Baekdu Mountain and Amur River for giving a maximum service of benefit to the people. The capital city was called Shinshi. The legend says that Hwanin (환인,桓因) gave three presents of Cheon Boo and Ihn to Hwanung (환웅,桓雄), and three thousand people had descended from heaven with Hwanwoong to the area of birch trees. Shinshi state was also known as Guri, and its borders were said to have reached the Shandong Peninsula in modern-day China. The greatest and most renowned of the Shishi state's Emperors was Jaoji Hwanung of Baedal, known better as Emperor Chi-Woo, who was described as a brilliant military leader and strategist. It was during the time of Emperor Chi-Woo that the empire reached its greatest extent. The Shinshi state most likely disintegrated due to internal struggles, and probably fell to neighboring nations.

Government Structure
In addition, there were three imperial families in the Shinshi state, which were Sinsi, Gosi and Chiwoo. Thus, these three families became emperor in the Shinshi state alternatively. The descendants of these three families, thereafter, were divided into nine tribes, which is so called Kuhwan (Gu means nine in Korean). Kuhwan means the nine tribes from Hwanguk, which was a legendary nation of Korea. The word of Kuhwan is sometimes transliterated into other words such as Kuryeo(구려,九黎), Kuyi(구이,九夷) and Koryeo (고려,高黎 or 高麗). Eventually, the words of Kuryeo and Koryeo are the origin of "Korea." There were three representatives of Shinshi state who are Poongbaek , Woosa and Woonsa. The Shinshi state assigned Five Ministers; Wooga managed agriculture, Maga managed the life of people, Guga managed a penalty, Jeoga managed disease, Yangga managed good and evil. These designation names of Five Ministers were quoted from animal names, and they are used as designation names of Ministers in Gojoseon and Buyeo.

Shinshi state was succeeded by Gojoseon. Someone assumes that another major legacy of the Shinshi state is the Goguryo. As mentioned earlier, Shinshi was also called Guri, and the word "Goguryeo" can be broken down into Go-Guri, meaning Go(high), Guri. Thus, Goguryoe means "the Higher Guri nation." In addition, Goguryeo is also interpreted as the nation of Guri or Guryeo governed by the family of "Go" because "Go" is the family name of Goguryeo. Indeed, It is written in Samguk Sagi that Goguryeo recovered most of the lost territories previously lost.

War with Huangdi Xuanyuan
It may be considered the first war in the world history. When Chiwoo became an emperor, Yoomang (楡罔), who was a descendant of Shennong, was a king in the nation of Shennong. At that time, the nation of Shennong became powerful because the population increased so much. So, the emperor Chiwoo had a plan to attack the nation of Shennong, and prepared bows, arrows, spears and swords. The emperor Chiwoo built up the troops with nine generals and 81 adjunt generals in Tangnok(涿鹿), and conquered the troops of Yoomang at Kuhon(九渾).

Thereafter, emperor Xuanyuan listened that the emperor Chiwoo became governing the land of Shennong. So, Xuanyuan assembled the troops, and had wars with the emperor Chiwoo for more than 70 times during ten years even though the emperor Chiwoo defeated the emperor Xuanyuan at the entire wars.

Fall of the empire
Like any other empire in history, the Shinshi state fell as well. The steady decay of the archaic empire began after its golden age under its 14th ruler, Jaoji Hwanung of Baedal. Not much is known about how the empire fell or what the cause was, but Korean historians have inferred that corruption and border conflicts with neighboring barbaric tribes caused the fall. Emperor Geobuldan, the 18th and final ruler of the Shinshi state, ruled for a mere 48 years while a majority of his predecessors were recorded to have ruled for at least over fifty years at the least. Historians have also inferred that the last emperor of Shinshi state was a weak puppet monarch, much like other final rulers of a dynasty. Shinshi state is thought to have followed the same cycle of rise, height and fall. The last emperor to rule over Shinshi state in its time of imperial glory was Emperor Chook Da-Li of Baedalguk, the 16th ruler of Shinshi state.

There is a list of Shishi in Hwandan Gogi, as follows.

Geo Bahl Hwan (Hangul : 거발환 Hanja/Hanzi: 居發桓) (3898 BC-3804 BC) died when he was 120 y.o.
Geo Bool Li (Hangul : 거불리 Hanja/Hanzi: 居佛理) (3804 BC-3718 BC) died when he was 102 y.o.
Woo Ya Go (Hangul : 우야고 Hanja/Hanzi: 右耶古) (3718 BC-3619 BC) died when he was 135 y.o.
Mo Sa Ra (Hangul : 모사라 Hanja/Hanzi: 慕士羅) (3619 BC-3512 BC) died when he was 129 y.o.
Tae Woo Eui (Hangul : 태우의 Hanja/Hanzi: 太虞儀) (3512 BC-3419 BC) died when he was 115 y.o.
Da Eui Bahl (Hangul : 다의발 Hanja/Hanzi: 多儀發) (3419 BC-3321 BC) died when he was 110 y.o.
Geo Ryun (Hangul : 거 련 Hanja/Hanzi: 居連) (3321 BC-3240 BC) died when he was 140 y.o.
Ahn Boo Ryun (Hangul : 안부련 Hanja/Hanzi: 安夫連) (3240 BC-3167 BC) died when he was 94 y.o.
Yang Woon (Hangul : 양 운 Hanja/Hanzi: 養雲) (3167 BC-3071 BC) died when he was 139 y.o.
Gahl Go (Hangul : 갈 고 Hanja/Hanzi: 葛古) (3071 BC-2971 BC) died when he was 125 y.o.
Geo Ya Bahl (Hangul : 거야발 Hanja/Hanzi: 居耶發) (2971 BC-2879 BC) died when he was 149 y.o.
Joo Moo Shin (Hangul : 주무신 Hanja/Hanzi: 州武愼) (2879 BC-2774 BC) died when he was 123 y.o.
Sa Wa Ra (Hangul : 사와라 Hanja/Hanzi: 斯瓦羅) (2774 BC-2707 BC) died when he was 100 y.o.
Ja O Ji (Jaoji Hwanung of Baedal) (Hangul : 자오지 Hanja/Hanzi: 慈烏支) - 일명 치우천왕 (2707 BC-2598 BC) died when he was 151 y.o.
Chi Aek Teuk (Hangul : 치액특 Hanja/Hanzi: 蚩額特) (2598 BC-2509 BC) died when he was 118 y.o.
Chook Da Li (Hangul : 축다리 Hanja/Hanzi: 祝多利) (2509 BC-2453 BC) died when he was 99 y.o.
Hyuk Dah Sae (Hangul : 혁다세 Hanja/Hanzi: 赫多世) (2453 BC-2381 BC) died when he was 97 y.o.
Guh Bool Dahn (Hangul : 거불단 Hanja/Hanzi: 居弗檀)- 일명 단웅(檀雄) (2381 BC-2333 BC) died when he was 82 y.o.

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Postby mdavid35 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:16 am


Hwan State (7198 BCE – 3898 BCE)

The ancient Koreans thought that they were the descendants of the Heavenly God so that they generally worshiped the heavens and the sun, and liked brightness. In ancient time, there was no ruler for the Koreans because they thought that the Heavenly God had governed them. A Divine Regent had supervised and taught the people as a representative of the Heavenly God, and he was called Hwanin1. Mythical records2 say about the Hwan State and as follows. “The Divine Regent or Hwanin had descended to the Baikal Lake at the Siberia with 800 children. The children had lived around the Amur River and the Baekdu Mountain, and had extended their grounds so that the size of the Hwan State became about 8,000 km from east to west and 20,000 from north to south at the height of its prosperity. The Hwan State was a united nation composed of twelve states such as Biriguk, Yangwoonguk, Gumakhanguk, Gudacheonguk, Ilgunguk, Woorooguk or Pilnaguk, Gaekhyung-hwanguk, Gumo-aekguk, Maeguyeoguk or Jikgudaguk, Sanab-aguk, Sunbi-yiguk or Shiwi-guk or Tongo-saguk, and Soomil-yiguk. The reign of years is said to be 63,182 or 3,301, but it is not sure which is correct.” The conflicting years of reign can be explained from another mythical record of Budoji3, and as follows. “There was a very ancient culture of the Koreans, which was called Mago. The Hwan State followed the Mago culture, and had continued for about 3,000 years.” Thus, someone who says that the reign of years by Hwan State was 63,182 may include the reign of years by Mago culture.

Even though there are some historical records about the Hwan State, no archeological evidence has been found, and the Hwan State is still considered as myth. However, the Hwan State provides a clue why the Korean people have been called as Guhwan4. The historical records say about the origin of the Koreans or Guhwan, as follows. The Hwan State was a united state where many race lived together. Thus, at the end of the Hwan State, the names of ethnic groups were different from each other, and manners and customs became diverse. The ethnic group who had lived long before was called Beom, and the other ethnic group who had newly immigrated was called Woong. The two ethnic groups could not live together because the Beom race liked to plunder others’ property due to the characteristic of brutality, but the characteristic of the Woong race was stupid and obstinate. There was a queen in the Woong race, and she was told that Hwanwoong had a virtue and goodness of the Heavenly God. Thus, she asked him to make the Woong race revere the Heavenly God. In the end, Hwanwoong allowed them to be the people of the Heaven. However, the Beom race could not repent of their sin, and then Hwanwoong expelled them to Sahae. Because one of women in the Woong race could not be married, she asked Hwanwoong to be married with her. The offspring by Hwanwoong and the woman of the Woong race were called Guhwan. Literally, Guhwan means the nine kinds of the Hwan peoples because it can be categorized into nine tribes. Guhwan was also called Guryeo, but the reason has not been proved. Guhwan may correspond to the allophonic transcription of Guryeo in ancient times. In Chinese history books such as Shiji that was edited by Sima Zhen (145 BCE – 86 BCE), Guhwan and Guryeo were called as Guyi because ancient Chinese called the other races except Han Chinese as “yi”, which means barbarian. This is caused by Han Chinese Chauvinism. More specifically, Chinese history books called the ancient Koreans as “dongyi,” which means that a eastern barbarian because “dong” means east.

The name of Koguryeo, which is one of the ancient Korean kingdoms, is also derived from Guhwan or Guryeo. The imperial family name of Koguryeo is “Ko” so that Koguryeo means the Guryeo’s state that is governed by the Ko family. Koguryeo was also called Koryeo as an abbreviated name of state. We can also see that the current name of “Korea” is the transliteration of Korean word Koryeo as English.


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Postby mdavid35 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:48 am

Taewooui Hwanung of Baedal is also known as Fu Xi in china.

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Postby mdavid35 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:48 pm

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Postby mdavid35 » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:17 am


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Re: Evidences of korean relation to china

Postby mdavid35 » Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:27 am

http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mod ... 0001977474

현대문명의 뿌리,‘동양역학’에 있다
기사입력 2008-10-14 15:06 |최종수정2008-10-14 17:09

[서울신문]지난 시간에는 역학에 대한 이해와 서양과 동양에서 역학의 의미에 대해 알아 보았다. 이번에는 현대 문명의 눈부신 발전이 수학에서 비롯된 서양과학의 발달 덕분이라고 믿고 있는 독자들에게 현대 문명의 뿌리가 동양에서 비롯된 것임을 알아보기로 한다.

　컴퓨터, 휴대전화, 자동차, TV 등 우리 생활의 일부가 되어버린 현대문명의 뿌리가 서양이 아닌 동양에서부터 비롯됐다는 사실을 아는 사람이 과연 몇이나 될까? 고대 동양 문명이 서양으로 전파된 시기는 언제이며 어떻게 전파되었는가에 대해서 알아보자.

자료부족으로 인해 그에 따른 역학의 유래는 자세히 알 수 없다. 하지만 문헌에 따르면, 환웅의 막내아들인 ‘태우’로부터 시작되었음을 알 수 있다. 어느 날 태우는 삼신이 강령하는 꿈을 꾼 후 백두산에서 천제를 지내고 내려오다가, 송화강에서 나온 용마의 등에 나타난 상을 보고 하도와 팔괘를 처음 그려 역(易)의 창시자가 된다.

　이 시기 고대 중국은 일개 약소국에 불과해, 강대국인 우리나라의 문명을 받아들일 수밖에 없던 형편이었다. 이후 상과 수로 상징되는 하도와 팔괘가 만고불변의 진리로 세상에 드러나면서 역학의 도맥으로 문왕, 주공, 공자를 거쳐 이어지기에 이른다.

●고대 동양에서 서양으로 전파된 시기는 언제이며, 어떻게 전파되었는가?

　약 4000여 년전, 우나라의 임금이 치수공사를 하던 중에 물속에서 기어 나온 거북이 등에 있는 무늬를 보고 낙서를 했다. 낙서의 수를 그대로 옮기면 3차 마방진이 되는데, 가로•세로•대각선의 합계가 모두 15가 된다.

　마방진은 한마디로 숫자 속에 숨겨진 우주의 질서를 의미하는데, 그 후 사람들은 마방진의 신비한 이미지에 매혹되었고, 인도•페르시아•아라비아 상인들에 의해 비밀스럽게 중동•유럽으로 전해지게 된다. 이는 서구문명에 지대한 발전을 가져오게 했고 수학이라는 개념을 기초로 한 과학이라는 또 다른 힘을 가져다주게 된다.

　이에 따라 서구문명의 발전과정 중에서 가장 중요한 수학이라는 막강한 힘을 키워주게 되고 컴퓨터, 휴대전화, 자동차, TV 등 현대 문명의 이기들을 탄생시킨다. 근대수학의 발전에 초석을 다진 대표적인 인물로는 B.C 532년경에 활동한 피타고라스이다. 에게해의 사모스섬에서 태어난 그는 이집트에서 유학하는 동안 동양으로부터 전해진 낙서, 마방진 등의 지식을 얻게 되었고, 이후 이탈리아 남부에 정착하기에 이른다.

　탈레스는 우주의 근본을 물이라 보았고, 데모크리토스는 원자라고 본 데 반해, 피타고라스는 우주의 근본을 수라고 정의하게 된다. 그는 수, 수적 비례, 그리고 조화에 대한 연구를 통해 ‘수는 만물의 척도’라고 했으며, 사물은 수들로 구성되어 있고 수는 사물과 닮아, 사물 그 자체라고 정의했다.

　이에 따라 수학을 기초로 한 과학은 수학 때문에 발전한 것이고 수학의 원리야말로 만물의 원리를 담고 있는 동양에서부터 비롯된 것이란 얘기다. 하지만 수학자들도 수천 년 동안 숫자의 합이 일정한 마방진에 관심을 가졌으면서도 아직까지 명쾌한 답을 얻어내지 못하고 있다.

　내부의 숫자들이 제멋대로 존재하지 않듯, 이름 모를 잡초라 할지라도 마방진의 숫자처럼 제 위치에서 전체 조건 값에 참여하면서 질서와 균형을 이루고 있는 셈이다. 팔괘에서 시작된 이진법의 원리처럼 말이다.

　그 신비한 성질이 무엇으로부터 비롯되는 것인지 실체가 무엇인지 설명이 불가능하다. 비록 서양의 수학이 동양의 상수원리에 일관된 뿌리를 두고 발전한 것은 아니지만, 상당 부분 수학의 기본개념이 동양의 역학으로 상수원리와 연관되어 있음을 알 수 있다. 가령 팔괘의 행렬은 선형방정식의 해법이고, 그 순열조합은 확률론과 게임이론의 기초가 되고 있는 것처럼 말이다.

　이처럼 만물은 무한한 것과 유한한 것이 종합하여 생성하는 것이니, 이것은 수의 홀수와 짝수가 결합하여 변화하는 것과 동일한 원리라고 피타고라스가 정의 한 것처럼 복잡한 수식을 떠나 수학은 인류문명사를 통해 예술·철학·종교·사회·과학에 개입하면서, 문화의 또 다른 부분들과 연결되어 살아있는 귀중한 사고 덩어리들로 형성된 셈이다.

　이러한 모든 정황을 살펴 볼 때, 고대 서양에서도 수에 대해서 상당한 관심을 가지고 있었고, 상수원리와 밀접하게 관계하고 있음을 확인할 수 있다. 서양역학 즉 과학이 거대한 우주와 대자연을 근본으로 하고 있는 것은 동양역학의 뿌리를 기초로 초석을 다져왔음을 증명하기에 충분하다는 결론이다.


도움말 동방대학원대학교 문화교육원 명리학과 노재환 교수

‘맛있는 정보! 신선한 뉴스!’ 서울신문(www.seoul.co.kr)

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Re: Evidences of korean relation to china

Postby ressotto » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:09 am

China has supported North Korea since Chinese fighters flooded onto the Korean peninsula to fight for the Communist Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) in 1950. Since the Korean War divided the peninsula between the North and South, China has given both political and economic backing to North Korea's leaders: Kim Il Sung, and his son and successor, Kim Jung-Il. In recent years, China has been seen as one of the authoritarian regime's few allies.

On July 4, North Korea test-fired a series of ballistic missiles despite explicit warnings from Beijing, Tokyo, and Washington. This led to an unusually public rebuke from Chinese officials, a sign of strain in the relationship. Despite their long alliance, experts say Beijing cannot control Pyongyang. "In general, Americans tend to overestimate the influence China has over North Korea," says Daniel Pinkston, a Korea specialist and director of the East Asia nonproliferation program at the Center for Nonproliferation Studies in Monterey, California. At the same time, China has too much invested in North Korea to halt or withdraw its support entirely. "The idea that the Chinese would turn their backs on the North Koreans is clearly wrong," says Adam Segal, the Maurice R. Greenberg senior fellow for China studies at the Council on Foreign Relations.

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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:32 am

Re: Evidences of korean relation to china

Postby cmw333 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:35 am

Throughout history, due to the close interactions between China and Korea, some degree of population movements have always occurred between the two neighboring countries. There were written records of Korean migrations in the early Qing Dynasty, Ming Dynasty, Yuan Dynasty, Tang dynasty and earlier. The majority of early Korean populations in China had assimilated with Chinese society. The current Korean population in China is mainly descended from migrants who came between 1860 and 1945. In the 1860s, a series of natural disasters struck Korea, leading to disastrous famines. Along with the Qing dynasty's loosening of border controls and acceptance of external migration into Northeast China, this pushed many Koreans to migrate. By 1894, an estimated 34,000 Koreans lived in China, with numbers increasing to 109,500 in 1910.[citation needed] After the Japanese annexation of Korea, larger numbers of Koreans moved to China. Some merely fled from Japanese rule or economic hardship, while others intended to use China as a base for their anti-Japanese resistance movements. By 1936, there were 854,411 Koreans in China. As Japanese rule extended to China, the Japanese government forced Korean farmers to migrate north to China to develop the land. During World War II, many Koreans in China joined the Chinese peoples in fighting against the Japanese invaders. Many also joined on the Communist side and fought against the Chinese Nationalist armies during the Chinese Civil War. After 1949, estimated at about 600 thousand individuals, or 40% of the Korean population at the time, chose to return to the Korean peninsula. But most Koreans chose to stay in China and took up Chinese citizenship between 1949 (the end of the Chinese Civil War) and 1952

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