Re: complexity

H. M. Hubey (
14 Nov 1995 00:45:08 -0500

Troy Kelley <> writes:

>"The human brain weighs 1,400 grams, and the dolphin's 1,700. The
>dolphin's cerebral cortex is larger than ours. It has twice the number
>of convolutions, and 10 to 40 percent more nerve cells" (sorry I don't
>have a page number)

I don't think their b/B ratio peaks over humans, at least not
on the charts I've seen.

But yes, on the charts they're up there with the chimps and humans.

>So getting back to whales and dolphines, you can't say we are the
>smartest animals on the planent. You can say that we are smart, and some

I can say so, and I do say so, and you can't tell me what
I can't say :-)..

It depends on how intelligence is defined. It's possible that
whales and dolphins might have intelligence levels of chimps
or so. But it's impossible to test them like humans because
if they have speech we don't understand them. As for
chimp intelligence, we do have indications that they can solve
some problems which even diehards can admit takes intelligence.

I don't have any problems attributing intelligence to
animals. Living things all have intelligence. I'd like to
attribute intellgience even to machines.

The problem is one of finding the right scale and a way
of measuring it, or at least finding some rough scale.

>other animals are smart too, but we are smart in a different sort of way.
>When you start making comparisons of brain size and function, dolphines
>and whales really are not too far behind. When you make comparasions in

They are not too far behind. I wish there was something like a
thermometer with which we can touch their heads and get readings
but they don't exist.

What I don't like is people constantly telling me what can't
be done. It sounds like I'm breaking the second law of
thermodynamics but it's nothing like it. What can be done
will probably be eventually done. If I don't do it someone
else will. And if you don't do it, someone else will.

I think it's time to give up PC.

>behavioural terms you have to be very careful. Animals are smart in ways
>which then need to be smart. A dolphine is much smarter at catching fish
>and using echo location than the average person. Humans have a collective

Maybe some of its brain is got a sonar remote-sensing program
and that's what makes it have a large brain.

BTW, how do bats measure up on this scale? That might give us
a clue as to how much space sonar takes up.


Regards, Mark