[Race History] NAMIBIAN GENOCIDE OF 1904

    It has been called the first genocide of the 20th century, the “forgotten genocide’’ and the genocide that was the precursor of the Holocaust. Tens of thousands of Africans were killed between 1904 and 1908 by German soldiers in what is now Namibia, a vast, arid country northwest of South Africa.

    German soldiers targeted people of two ethnic groups — the Herero and the Nama — because they had resisted land grabs by German settlers. Africans were shot, hanged, abandoned in the desert and died in concentration camps. Descendants of the Herero and Nama, marginalized groups within Namibia itself, kept alive the stories of their genocide through oral tradition and cultural events.

    A push to recognize the genocide began after Namibia’s independence in 1990, and grew stronger with the 100th anniversary of the atrocities in 2004. In recent years — with researchers and left-leaning politicians pushing Germany to come to terms with its rarely examined colonial history — the process gained momentum.

    While Germany indicated early on that it was ready to recognize the atrocities as a genocide, there was a stumbling block: money, not only the amount to be given, but what any payment would be called.

    On Friday, Germany formally described the killings as a genocide, agreed to issue an apology and committed to providing $1.35 billion toward reconstruction and development projects. The Namibian government hailed the agreement, and some Namibians welcomed it.

    But Herero and Nama leaders dismissed the deal as a “public relations coup” because it did not include funds deemed “reparations.”




    The Queen’s courtiers banned “coloured immigrants or foreigners” from serving in clerical roles in the royal household until at least the late 1960s, according to newly discovered documents that will reignite the debate over the British royal family and race.

    The documents also shed light on how Buckingham Palace negotiated controversial clauses – that remain in place to this day – exempting the Queen and her household from laws that prevent race and sex discrimination.

    The papers were discovered at the National Archives as part of the Guardian’s ongoing investigation into the royal family’s use of an arcane parliamentary procedure, known as Queen’s consent, to secretly influence the content of British laws.

    Read the article at https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/02/buckingham-palace-banned-ethnic-minorities-from-office-roles-papers-reveal


    Walking along the Greenwood area in Tulsa, you cross paths with luminaries including Rep. James Clyburn, Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee, actress Alfre Woodard, Ben Crump, and Roland Martin. You hear 107-year old Viola Fletcher and her 100-year old younger brother describe the events of the 1921 Tulsa Massacre that destroyed a thriving Black community. Despite the horror, you feel joy in the 100th commemoration. 

    Tomorrow, digging will begin on a mass grave. It is unclear if the bodies are those of those slain in the massacre or the bodies of those who died in the influenza pandemic of 1918. The dig is one sign that the efforts to keep the events of the massacre failed. The massacre has not been covered in history textbooks. Even residents of Tulsa were unaware of the horror. The truth is now available for all to see.

    A multitude of documentaries are being televised to remind us of this tragic event.

    There are lawsuits seeking reparations for those who had their property stolen.

    R.I.P. to those who lost their lives 


    Medal of Honor at Last for Black WWI Veteran

    Henry Johnson, all 5-feet-4 of him, was given the name “black death” for his valor in the Argonne forest during World War I. Cries of “Oh, you Black Death!” at a homecoming parade in Harlem greeted his return to the U.S. after the war. But Johnson’s legend quickly faded. He was too black to be an American hero and too crippled by war to hold his old job. He died in 1929, just over a decade after the war ended, destitute and unheralded.

    Henry’s son, Herman Johnson, was raised by a great aunt and uncle. He knew his father only from occasional meetings in public parks and later visits to VA hospital rooms. After his father’s death, there wasn’t even a grave for Herman to visit


    VMI has tolerated ‘racist and sexist culture’ and must change, investigation finds

    An independent investigation of the culture at Virginia Military Institute released Tuesday found ‘a racist and sexist culture,’ fierce resistance to change and a fear of retaliation among students and faculty who want to report bigotry or sexual misconduct to administrators.

    “This investigation found that institutional racism and sexism are present, tolerated, and left unaddressed at VMI. The racist and misogynistic acts and outcomes uncovered during this investigation are disturbing,” said the report, authored by lawyers at the law firm Barnes & Thornburg, who were paid $1 million by the state for the probe. “Although VMI has no explicitly racist or sexist policies that it enforces, the facts reflect an overall racist and sexist culture.”

    The report recommended requiring VMI, the nation’s oldest state-supported military college, to create a sweeping reform plan and to submit quarterly reports to the state on its progress. It also urged Gov. Ralph Northam (D) and the General Assembly to appoint a committee with no ties to VMI to evaluate those reports and address “any lack of substantial progress.”


    How the Father of Modern Policing ‘Abolished’ the Police

    August Vollmer has been hailed by many in law enforcement as the father of modern American policing. He has also been criticized for pioneering the militarization of the police and espousing the racist theories of eugenics. What’s rarely talked about, however, is that he began his tenure as the head of the police department of Berkeley, Calif., in 1905 by forcing all of his deputies to resign — arguably a kind of early experiment in abolishing the police. He eventually replaced them with college-educated people, hoping they would usher in a new, progressive era in policing.

    In Mr. Vollmer’s ideal world, cops would never have to bust heads; instead, they would use their smarts to bring about social reforms that prevented people from becoming “crooks” in the first place. “You prevent people from doing wrong,” a protégé recalled Mr. Vollmer saying in a speech to a group of officers. “That’s the mission of a policeman. I’ll admire you more if in the first year you don’t make a single arrest.”

    A 1916 article that Mr. Vollmer co-wrote disparaged traditional police departments as corrupt, inept and violent, with officers chosen for their “political pull and brute strength.” His solution, which became a reality at the University of California, Berkeley, was “a school for the special training of police officers,” which would grant the equivalent of a bachelor’s degree in criminology.

    It sounds like an uncontroversial suggestion. But Mr. Vollmer’s police school was actually part of a radical plan to dissolve the Berkeley Police Department and rebuild it as a better organization



    The President has a pilot script and an eight-episode bible for a series that tells the complex story of America’s first elected leader and the contradictions behind the man who, after leading the country to victory in the Revolutionary War, made an indelible mark on setting up a democratic government as its first president. In his first 153 days, Washington unified the warring factions of the country; organized the State, Treasury and what was then called the War Department; set up the Supreme Court; and ratified the Bill of Rights and the Constitution in 1791.

    There is hypocrisy: Washington and wife Martha owned 300 enslaved people who toiled on their Virginia plantation. He ripped nine of them away from their families to join him when he set up the government in New York, where slavery was not outlawed until 1807.


    [presumably you can tell when something's Racial History without me telling you - PP]


    Corina Newsome is a Black ornithologist, as rare as some of the birds she studies.

    When she joined Georgia Audubon last year, the group’s executive director called her hiring a first step to “begin working to break down barriers” so that people from all communities can fully enjoy birding and the outdoors.

    But overcoming those barriers will be daunting. As with the wider field of conservation, racism and colonialism are in ornithology’s DNA, indelibly linked to its origin story. The challenge of how to move forward is roiling White ornithologists as they debate whether to change as many as 150 eponyms, names of birds that honor people with connections to slavery and supremacy.

    The Bachman’s sparrow, Wallace’s fruit dove and other winged creatures bear the names of men who fought for the Southern cause, stole skulls from Indian graves for pseudoscientific studies that were later debunked, and bought and sold Black people. Some of these men stoked violence and participated in it without consequence.

    Even John James Audubon’s name is fraught in a nation embroiled in a racial reckoning. Long the most recognized figure in North American birding for his detailed drawings of the continent’s species, he was also an enslaver who mocked abolitionists working to free Black people. Some of his behavior is so shameful that the 116-year-old National Audubon Society — the country’s premier bird conservation group, with 500 local chapters — hasn’t ruled out changing its name. An oriole, warbler and shearwater all share it.

    “I am deeply troubled by the racist actions of John James Audubon and recognize how painful that legacy is for Black, Indigenous and people of color who are part of our staff, volunteers, donors and members,” interim chief executive Elizabeth Gray said in a statement in May. “Although we have begun to address this part of our history, we have a lot more to unpack.”


    Still struggling with how a term black people used to identify themselves in 1963, including by MLK and other respected black leaders, is "offensive", "awful" and "derogatory" even as preserved on a plaque still in place as put 60 years earlier.

    And considering it's the Spanish word for "black" in the rather Hispanic (30%) state of Texas we're talking about, do black people walk around cringing when Hispanics speak?

    Does "obsolete", "fallen into disuse", "antiquated" not suffice these days - anything out of favor and no long current must be considered "offensive" and completely erased?

    Imagine women asked for a tenth of this treatment.


    Word meanings change all the time.

    Nothing remarkable



    Edit to add:

    As far back as when MLK was in junior high, he used Black interchangeably with Negro

    Black became the common term.




    Yeah, it is remarkable. 50 years ago MLK talked about Negroes and The Negro. Sure, Malcolm X and Stokely Carmichael proposed a more prideful option, but "National Association of Colored People" lives on despite that term falling out of favored too, and for all the screaming about "the N word", a lot of blacks continue to use that word multiple times a day, and Negro ain't "the N word".

    I don't think you can name me anything similar of any cultural shift around the world, but you're so fucking glib anyway, as if sure, Stokely Carmichael was the most important thing to happen to a largely conservative church-going group of people. And we're talking about some respectful signs from 60 years ago, not Confederate statues and the like. Whatever - boring as always.

    Carmichael was speaking during the Black Power era.

    Usually, the way it works now is that Black movements in the United States inspire others, rather than vice versa.

    Marti Luther King Jr. and Black Lives Matter inspired activists in other countries.

    You can be inspired by someone and not have to renounce and feel "offended" by your previous life, your previous speech. Should I run around looking for embarrassing 1950s white talk to cancel, "you're the boss, applesauce..."? Maybe we should ban the showing of beat era "go cat go" movies, or Elvis jailhouse rock stuff... I'm pretty sure Sydney Poitier used the word Negro in several films - should it be bleeped out, overdubbed?

    The movies are the movies

    There was a guy who sung Mammy in blackface on screen.

    It is 2021, the current generation of Black people get to decide what to call themselves 

    You are free to keep using "Negro".

    This isn't about 2021 - it's about converting stuff thats been sitting around since 1963 just cuz their lingo on musty signs is oddly enough old style. Is reading the word "Negro" on a historical description as "awful" as watching a cringeworthy blackface minstrel performance?

    ETA: while I'm sure some had nefarious histories, what were possibly the positive interesting stories behind these Negro Bluff, Creek, Pond, Tank, Lake, Bend, Liberty Settlement... that get relabeled with some unrelated black Texan's name? Who were these people who lived there? Did they have a story?

    The Negro published by W.E.B. DuBois in 1915 is still available.

    The history is freely accessible 

    There are no statues to Hitler in Germany, but the history is known

    The name change is because it is about the population in 2021.

    You can continue to use whatever word suits your fancy.

    The "history" is the place names, and the memories so no, it's not "freely accessible" - it's deleted, superimposed with a generic famous black Texan. Maybe someone didn't like great-grandma's old style clothes either. Trade her up for something more woke.

    (these are place names, not just plaques - people were born, played, grew up, fell in love, worked, died - largely under a set of names. I personally would be careful driving ramshod over the past, and would in general give preference to the people who live there (in this case the black people who live there).

    I know guys who call themselves "bad ass nig****" and similar. Pretty sure they wouldn't like things toned down or cleaned up.

    History remains intact, including the rationale behind the name changes.

    If there is no shame to the name, you would have typed "bad ass niggas/niggers"

    Nigger nigger nigger nigger - dude, i don't really give a fuck - i was listening to Niggas With Attitude 35 years ago, I've heard blacks say it a million times, i don't much use it just becuz, but there's not a word on the planet that really bothers me except thru repetition, and half the time that just takes out the sting. But for fucks sake, Negro Creek gets somebody wound up? Wouldn't that be where all the black kids went swimming in the summer? So we give it some generic stodgy old name instead of what's free and fun? Name it like a library? Whoo boy, that's fun. I remember a swimming pool in the south with "no running, no jumping, no ....", basically nothing to do with  fun. You would've love the shit out of it.

    (and yes, there is shame to the name "nigger", tho not in all cases, but not very much with Negro even tho it can be used as a pejorative., especially with House Negro framing and such. But whatever. We discuss this shit as if we were 13.

    You don't get to make the choice about whether the name of Negro Creek changes.

    Go up to a member of NWA and call him a nigger.

    Relax, you still have the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

    Why do you say such stupid shit? Of course I "don't get to make the choice" - i was just wondering when people got all uptight to go back scrubbing stuff that wasn't inherently offensive from 60 years back.. And why would I call someone with NWA a nigger, presuming i ever met a bandmember? Hey, i used to listen to the Slits - would i call the singer a slit to her face or refer to her as a slit otherwise? Is there some weird logic in all this? But yeah, calling someone a "colored person" is offensive, but "person of color" not. Go figger. 

    I admit I'm not certain why "black" became unacceptable--they still call us white--but we'll identify people by whatever category they choose for themselves. But it may not be strictly accurate to refer to someone like Halle Berry as "African"(really half that).

    tweet from this morning went viral: tweet has 3,149 retweets and 11.9K likes

    account has 197,200 followers

    On comments made by Crab Leg Luxury

    It will be interesting to see how the Juneteenth holiday proceeds. It is true that many Black Americans have conflicted feelings about the 4th. The conflict was noted by Frederick Douglass in his Fourth of July speech, but persists to today. July the Fourth is BBQ Day. 

    Frederick Douglass (1852)


    Current perspective on the Fourth (NPR 2020)


    The Star-Spangled Banner has issues. The lyrics of the third stanza are controversial:

    First, a few things to know about the War of 1812: One of the main issues was the British practice of impressment — the forced conscription of American sailors to fight for the Royal Navy. Plus, the British promised refuge to any enslaved Black people who escaped their enslavers, raising fears among White Americans of a large-scale revolt. The final provocation was that men who escaped their bonds of slavery were welcome to join the British Corps of Colonial Marines in exchange for land after their service. As many as 4,000 people, mostly from Virginia and Maryland, escaped.

    It’s important to know these things because “The Star-Spangled Banner,” originally called “The Defense of Fort M’Henry,” has more than one verse. The second half of the third verse ends like this:

    No refuge could save the hireling and slave 

    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,

    And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave 


    These lyrics are a clear reference to the Colonial Marines, according to Jefferson Morley, author of “Snow-Storm in August: Washington City, Francis Scott Key, and the Forgotten Race Riot of 1835.” They are clearly meant to scorn and threaten the African Americans who took the British up on their offer, he wrote in a recent essayfor The Washington Post. Key surely knew about the Colonial Marines, and it’s even possible he saw them among the contingent of British ships that sailed into Baltimore Harbor.


    Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln had a somewhat tumultuous relationship 


    Given his references, I think Crab Leg Luxury's target was a Black audience. He does care what whites think.


    That stanza of the anthem at least isn't sung anymore. It's telling that America's national anthem(not the anthem until 1931) reflects her problem with race.

    We have been over all of this several times.

    Pretty sure Dick Day was the last Alzheimer's sufferer here.

    I myself hadn't been part of the discussion until a few hours ago.

    History books are going to tell a more complete history of the United States, warts and all. Hearing to stories of what ethnic groups went through will do more to bring the country together than covering up the faults. What I have seen happen as Black people come to grips with slavery and Jim Crow is a sense of pride. The feeling is if we survived Tulsa, we can survive anything. 

    Nikole Hannah-Jones begins the 1619 Project with the story of how her father flew the flag of the United States despite the racism he faced. Annette Gordon-Reed tells a similar tale in her book "On Juneteenth". Getting to tell the stories provides a good outlet.

    History books are only so long. If they add something, they usually drop something else.

    Prior synopsis of anthem's third verse, tho pretty sure it's been discussed 2 or 3 more times incl more recently.


    History books like the Gordon-Reed's "On Juneteenth", Edward T. Cotham's "Juneteenth: The Story Behind the Celebration", and Hannah-Jones' upcoming "1619 Project". etc., tell more detailed stories of events than history texts.

    You had your interpretation of the posts, I gave mine. The object was to supply some context. For some reason, you always feel the need to attack.

    Federal employees to get Friday off as Biden signs legislation making Juneteenth a national holiday



    Just as states are passing laws to limit discussions of race in classrooms.

    Almost everybody's for it, a reminder that even your favorite President was

    I mean it almost feels like the freak out about it this week isn’t on the level https://t.co/A30zOUWkK7

    — Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) June 17, 2021

    Except Bill DeBlasio changed his mind

    "Mayor Bill de Blasio vowed last year that Juneteenth would be an official holiday. City workers learned this week they would not be getting a paid day off after all." @danarubinstein @luisferre https://t.co/1pfyOD4k3a

    — Michael M. Grynbaum (@grynbaum) June 17, 2021

    and then of course Crab Leg Luxury don't want whypipple in on it...because they happen to have the same color skin as the slaveowners

    Just cuz your white forebears arrived here 150 years later doesn't let you off the hook, does it?

    Me, i thought the 13th-15th amendments were the celebration piece all this time (along with 60's Civil Rights legislation/voting act). And then there was MLK Day (which kicked out 2 white president holidays - signed by Reagan, who woulda thunk). Something tells me we'll have another holiday push in 30-40 years or so. Maybe we'll have a Black Christmas too to make up for all those years of Bing Crosby racist indoctrination...

    But seriously, MLK was largely aracial, "I have a dream..." inclusive for all races, a uniting message. This is pretty much our first official holiday for 1 group of many. Maybe it's needed, idunno, but what ya gonna tell white or brown or Asian skinned kids to do that day - "hey, be glad you ain't black!" or "say a bit of thanks for their fortune..."? And what about the descendents of the 340,000 or so Northern whites who fought & died partly for that Juneteenth freedom (along with the millions who didn't die)?

    (Interesting to note the Choctaw had black plus native slaves, and supported the Confederacy, so postwar freedomapplied to their slaves as well, but full integration of freedmen with Choctaw Nation didn't happen for another 20 years)

    But to put it all in perspective, one of our biggest most heated debates currently is whether a masked caped fantasy superhero would have oral sex with another masked caped fantasy superheroine - with people seeming to take it metaphorically serious. So who knows...

    MLK gave more than one speech. His legacy is being whitewashed.

    From Michael Eric Dyson author of "Tears We Cannot Stop: A Sermon To White America"




    King's stance against the Vietnam War and his criticisms of capitalism have been excised, or at least downplayed, in popular memory, as they're still controversial positions.


    The speech at the Riverside Church has almost been purged from memory.


    What a bullshit strawman. Who are these people who supposedly believed this achieved in 1963? And so King was complex, gave more than 1 speech, 1 topic - what contradicted his search for justice and equality, fairness for all?

    Are black people punching or knifing Asians racist, fighting with Korean convenience store operators and the like? Did King ever say it works one way, or did he imply or state that we're all racists at heart, all carry demon seeds of intolerance for the "other"? Look at Spike Lee's "Do the Right Thing" - was it simply 1-sided racism he was highlighting? Or human misunderstanding, overexcitedness, unwillingness to see the other side?

    Why don't blacks begrudge Arabs or the Choctaw or their own African brethren that enslaved them or sold them out to slave traders? Or the Aztecs who enslaved other Natives, before Columbus showed up to enslave them too... There's so much guilt to go around. Time didn't freeze in 1492, nor 1963 - harmony hasn't been achieved - it remains a loving aspiration - in some ways closer, in some ways farther away. I'll carry my respect for MLK, a preacher for the religious and non-relugious, for the humane and inhumane. The messages stand - I've yet to see one that strikes me as non-inclusive or off the mark. Sure, he spoke from his black perspective, from his people's needs and aspirations. But the reason he caught fire was it was a message that touched others - otherwise he'd be Malcolm painting himself into a tight corner, Stokely Carmichael with only Black Power, Eldridge Cleaver or Huey Newton with radical chic. MLK's relevance isn't from whitewashing - it's from people inclusion, from humanity. Some old grandma has trouble getting down the street - MLK has a word for her. Some fat girl getting bullied at school - MLK has a word for her. Some kid with a speech defect isn't understood, is made fun of - MLK has a word for him or her  "I have a dream" really is a dream. It doesn't have to be gender changed or keep up with pronouns or follow the latest war and rebellion and whatever religion  - It worked the first time. It keeps on dreaming.

    Of course MLK was an activist, pursuing practical goals, results, changinges, laws and court rulings and real-life behavior, combatting horrid acts like the Birmingham bombings and so many others - not just spouting roses and platitudes from a pulpit. When he took on Bull Conner, he calculated, had strategy, picked words and actions that would get the job done, expose the hate and cruelty and unfairness. But I still don't see the contradiction between that and exposing US atrocities in battles abroad, or the illegal/immoral acts say of this past Administration. If the message deviated far from his actions it might diminish the effect, but just because he had 5 Acts doesn't mean we stopped watching at Act 2 or that the finale was contradictory or a paste on. His example works because it's so consistent while evolving 

    This is an old dodge

    Stories of Black Slaveowners are well known.




    Same with stories of Native American slave owners


    In fact, there was a recent victory in court awarding Native American citizenship to descendants of former slaves


    While some African leaders sold other Africans to Europeans, there was all resistance to slavery from other African leaders.


    There are examples of rebellions about ship during the Middle Passage 

    There were slave rebellions in the colonies.

    The focus on experiences of enslaved people in the United States is common sense.

    After 150 years maybe not so common.

    Will Juneteenth be a holiday in 2121? Is there something else to move on to?

    Napoleon overran Europe 200 years ago - how much is that a daily topic in the EU? Those gassed at the Marnes in horrific trench warfare 105 years ago? How much daily conversation is there about people's relatives in the gas chambers 80 years ago? Horrific famines in Ethiopia, war in Congo, victims under apartheid - is that also their defining qualities going forward?

    The European experience has nothing to do with the situation in the United States. The voter suppression efforts, police brutality, economic and education disparities have deep roots. You have a very limited outlook. Fortunately, millions will celebrate Juneteenth tomorrow while you remain the guy yelling for people to get off his lawn.

    People will enjoy Juneteenth. On the 20th they will go back to fighting the forces that try to keep them down. No, we will not move on to something else just because race bores you.

    Keep yelling.

    You have a strange definition of "limited", where a world view is limited while a limited parochial view from within one nation's history and borders is not. Might as well wave a MAGA flag!

    (And that's without getting into the limitation of what "minority" means within a country--it is labeled a minority because it is literally a minority rather than a majority of the population.)

    You  often use words incorrectly. You really do!  It is part of the frustration of having any discussion with you.

    This is why I don't take you seriously.

    Note, when you say "race" you mostly mean "black", or slave-derived descendents of US/colonial slaves, not like Jamaicans or Ethiopians or Brazilians or say blacks immigrating from France. Out here in the rest of the world there are a wide array of races, and culturally it's pretty interesting 

    We are discussing conditions in the United States.

    Edit to add:

    MLK ignited the world

    BLM protests after George Floyd spread around the world.

    The United States' protests have major influence 

    Edit to add:

    Two of the major bills awaiting passage carry the names of George and John Lewis

    Race remains a major factor, so it cannot be ignored.

    There are black Americans who are immigrants or descended from many of these countries, not just pre-1865 slaves. Who was Basquiat? Half Haitian, half Puerto Rican, Brooklyn born - was he black American enough? Just not Civil War black. Obama's half Kenyan - maybe appreciates Juneteenth, but not part of his dad's heritage - go ask Kenyatta.

    Does not negate my statement about the importance of race in 2021.

    Are you retarded or you just play it on Dagblog?

    Someone takes the time to write you a detailed response, and you give a playground-like "I'm still right, nah" response, especially galling since you act like you discovered race but you only deal with or talk about 2. I live in Europe where we have lots of races, competing nations and subregiony and subgroups and minorities, dialects, frictions going back a thousand years, plus immigration from outside and migration between countries or within countries, all causing some kind of tension.  

    High school level - I've told you, up your game.

    BTW, what do Ethiopians around the US think about Juneteenth and all this other stuff (a large number driving taxis so easy enough to find and ask)? Are they black enough to answer?

    And then when I read about more blacks homeschooling, another article in the Post about smart black kid whose mother is told to pull him out of school, he's too smart for them to help... How's all this race talk addressing basics like actually educating, actually protecting, actually paving the way to jobs aand good neighborhoods...? I talk to a girl from Angola who's fluent in 3 languages, a talented young computer hacker - i know there's awful stuff from mercenary armies in Angola in the 70s, but she's talking IT, data concepts. The Russians i meet aren't for the most part sitting around obsessed with Putin nor are the Ukrainians going on about the 5 million dead from the Holodomor in the 20s - they're dealing with their businesses and kids. A kid we know gets $12.50 a month allowance and has to put $5 in savings, but she's busy discovering painting and new styles. For years Asians in America (Chinese, SE Asia) were largely anonymous and now their greater visibility means people bashing them in the street for no reason, or discriminating against them in schools because they do too well - where's that fit in your plan for fixing all things racial in 2021? Will a holiday for some Asian event or personality fix any of it? Will an Asian president or Supreme Court Justice or some other marker keep Asians from having their stores gutted by protesters?


    Here's an idea how seriously Juneteenth will go overall:


    I'm guessing we're getting a bit tough to nail down those commemorations.

    You can hurl insults, but they have no impact. Juneteenth exists because of celebrations of formerly enslaved people after being told about their freedom. Tomorrow there will be nationwide celebrations. In your world, no one is addressing education or economic issues. Tomorrow there will be dance and song. On Sunday, the ongoing battle continues. There will be more examples like the Harvard-bound student who donated her cash award. She is not a one off.

    In your world, no one is doing anything. In reality, people are working every day to improve the lives of African Americans. We see schools being built and programs geared to improve the lives of young African Americans. Legislators are working to craft legislation that will help. There is no program or set of programs that will fix all things racial in 2021. It would be retarded to think that such a program exists.

    Your last paragraph reads like a word salad.

    Edit to add:

    I suppose Juneteenth will do more to quick fix racial issues than the Fourth of July.

    The Fourth has been around forever and done nothing.

    I hurl insults because you act so blindingly dumb. Here you use as an example *a girl from Ghana* - black immigrants who weren't slaves, who likely don't celebrate Juneteenth, but invest their energy in church and hard work/study and community spirit. (I can only hazard her family's thoughts about the spike in black on black shootings - would doubt they own or praise guns, but that's just a guess). You assume all black people as allies, but Dijamo wasn't so thrilled with the black gangs that hassled her on the way to school in Bronx or Brooklyn growing up, the black Ethiopian immigrants running a restaurant couldn't understand all of the American black street chaos... and these are reactions 30-40 years back, and the country's "black" population has become much more diverse, less the traditional slave-descended church-instructed Andrew Young or Jesse Jackson constituencies, and the MLK vs young Malcolm/Black Panther split has fractured in many more ways. But you just have this cant about the great solutions of these superficial events. What was Fourth of July supposed to "do" aside from be a celebration about being American and get people out grilling food together and shooting off fireworks with some slight reference to the national anthem/War of 1812? Growing up, Thanksgiving and Fourth of July were the least adulterated of holidays. Sure, the over patriotism of Fourth of July was grating, but still, it was burgers & weiners, flash/bang/boom (mostly without someone falling dead), and silly parades or a day on the river/lake. Yay America. There was no separate 4th for different races or genders or ages. It was just a celebration - we''re still here, 200, 250 years later, bruises and warts and some accomplishments and all that jazz.

    Juneteenth is going to fix what exactly? The 30-35 million blacks who are actually descended from slaves will suddenly realize they're free 150 years later, or what? Or will it help fix black area schools, stop blacks from shooting blacks, allow blacks to be safer in their neighborhoods or get jobs? People are trying to fix heavily black schools while some smart black kids are being told to move out to get a decent education, with pandemic some blacks are finding distance or home learning to be more effective, less dangerous - that could be a positive development, but i don't think it's what you're describing.

    See response below.

    PP, here's a different globalist view, and a positive one about making it a celebration:

    This really bothers me in a way very few tweets ever do. Juneteenth has *nothing* to do with "segregation." Quite the opposite. People who were enslaved an extra *two years* burst into joy when Union soldiers finally reached them. We can be unified in celebrating their relief! https://t.co/JgaNif7NW0

    — Thomas Chatterton Williams (@thomaschattwill) June 18, 2021

    I always get the impression from rmrd's writing that he glories in victimhood and tied in with that the idea that an entire tribe agrees with him (I see ample evidence they don't, BTW)  that some sort of reparations (not necesssarily monetarily but major mea culpas are due).

    When in reality, hardly anyone has objected to the celebration of Juneteenth, including plenty of Republicans, because they see it a joyful celebration of goodness overwhelming bad, a sort of MLK style "we shall and did overcome". It's sort of the opposite of whining and obsession about bad things, but rather a celebration that dreams are possible.

    It's a simplistic view, of course, but sort of what holidays are for, no? (Think of Thanksgiving, based on a myth, and everyone says it's their favorite holiday except for when and until their own family gets together laugh)

    In any case, I think Williams is seeing it the same most others: it's a celebration of progress, success, redemption, the opposite of the victim meme. And even includes white union soldiers, shows what a "unity" with purpose can do. (Myself I sort of roll my eyes at this type of thing at my age, I am very cynical. But Williams made me see why this is quite different from a lot of politically correct "punishment and suffering for evil fuhever" and "U.S. as built on original sin" promoters. Candace, on the other hand, is a right wing practitioner of finding and pumping the divisiveness of every maddening aspect of p.c. she can find. And those like rmrd are often happy to comply, always pushing divisive tribalism.)

    There you go with your tribalism nonsense again.

    Juneteenth became a holiday because Black people refused to be victims.

    Edit to add:

    Thomas Chatterton Williams has an opinion that you like, no big deal

    John McWhorter just does not "get" Juneteenth 


    Opinions differ.

    I'm not sure I can agree that the business of Native Americans owning African-Americans is well known. Well known to historians, yes, but not so well known to lay people.

    That the slaves were sold by other Africans has to mean some shared responsibility. But there wasn't an equivalence because 1) there were white and black slavers, but the victims were all black. 2) the European demand probably meant that more people were enslaved than would have been otherwise 3) Herbert Klein believes that mortality among the slaves was much greater after they were sold to Europeans than during the march to the coast.

    Many more were lost in the Middle Passage.

    The smell of the ships was noted in the book "Our Man in Charleston".

    The lawsuit against the Native American tribe was not hidden.

    For the present, I'll stand by the contention that relatively few Americans are informed about Native American enslavement of African-Americans. It wasn't in my textbooks, and I can't remember seeing anything about in the news media(perhaps the media has occasionally addressed it, but how often?)

    Many textbooks did not include Juneteenth or Tulsa.

    Klein says that a sixth perished on the Dutch ships and a fifth on the French ships. He thinks that another five percent perished in between being purchased by the Europeans and being taken out of Africa. He thinks that five percent perished in the caravans to the coast, although that's a guess.

    15-30% during capture, 20% after capture?


    Elsewhere 10 million transported for the Arab slave trade over the years, walking across the Sahara and other deserts -though many were slaves *in* Africa - ghastly casualty rates.

    Response to PP from above.

    You hurl insults because that is all you have. You enjoy the misery. Neither Juneteenth or the Fourth of July can be expected to solve ills in the community. Yet you repeatedly ask what they are supposed to do to solve problems. On a national level, bills that carry the name of George Floyd and John Lewis are being pushed, but are blocked by a white grievance party. States are actually passing bills to suppress discussion about race. Critical Race Theory is not being taught in classrooms but Republicans push it as a major threat to a gullible public.

    Republicans are working towards an authoritarian government but you focus on the Woke. You tell jokes as if nothing is going on. I'm stuck addressing your stupid questions and insults. Problems in the Black community are not going to magically disappear. Blacks in Congress and activists in cities and states are making changes. Even celebrities, including some rappers are forming foundations and building schools to help. You dismiss everything but the crime. You love the misery. You are addicted to the misery. You are worthless.

    You have the keys, so you get to arbitrarily remove content that I post that you don't like. It is no big deal. I'm will go to a Juneteenth festival today and enjoy the festivities. I work with a charity that aids at risk children. I work with a community group that focuses on gun laws. You stand on the sidelines and whine. You are truly pathetic.

    What service does your whining provide? How does repeatedly pointing out crimes help anything.I haven't seen numbers come down despite the endless posts about crime posted on this site. It is all about making yourself feel superior. It is not about helping.

    Happy Juneteenth.

    Edit to add:



    Again, why would either holiday "cure the ills of the community"?

    Dems got a chance to push against whack just-take-bleach Trump, but they blew it on defund the police, intimidate diners, smash up downtowns, and other overreach. If people are scared of BLM marchers, they'll let reps pass restrictive laws. And if the big policy point in the middle of a rash of shootings is "defund the police", congrats, you've buffed another election cycle. Sorry for ruining the national celebration of Chauvin's conviction, but it comes at the expense of black-on-black crime, quite a bit of it surrounding the rap scene. What are they gonna do to take away drugs or coolthe craziness?

    There are attacks on the 1619 Project, CRT, BLM, etc. At some point whites are going to have to educate themselves. If they believe Trump won and there are microchips in the vaccine, there is no hope. Republicans are forming an authoritarian government. They want the ability to overthrow the results of an election. If the response to this push for authoritarian government is........"But CRT", the country is gone. Stacey Abrams is now the face of the GOP voter suppression effort. At this point, the problem is not the Woke, it is a general public that believes nonsense. On the Presidential level, Democrats will never going to get the majority of the white vote. 

    Blacks realize that the real problem of an attempted coup is not going to be addressed. Gun purchases among law- Blacks has surged.




    Defund the people is a side issue, another scare tactic aimed at whites. The fear of entrenched racism in police departments and the fear of being a victim is part of the drive.

    Edit to add:

    The argument is always that Blacks are irrational actors 

    White voters are responding to Black irrationality

    I argue, that many whites  (obviously not all) are gullible 

    Regarding immigrants

    Black Immigrants Are Still Fighting Racism In The U.S. Immigration System



    Uh, i missed the objective 3rd party assessment that these (or was there more than 1?)  illegal black immigrants were treated worse than Hispanic one - just a guy saying about himself, after he crossed the southern border with a bunch of medical conditions. This is Huffpost now - unlikely (tho occasionally surprise) to write an valid journalistic piece on anything.

    This is as crazy as the gun purchase surge among white conservatives when Obama was elected. You're actually proud that black people are becoming brain dead gun nuts just like that white right wing. Amazing

    Blacks feel stressed. People like you are merely going to stand on the sidelines and complain. If bills are being blocked and votes are being suppressed, it is time to be concerned. If the January 6th insurrection is being defined as a bunch of tourists. Why trust that anyone is going to protect your body? If they are armed, then we get armed. If they can attack the Capitol and go home, we cannot expect police intervention for white attacks on Blacks. Zimmerman is free. Prosecutors were ready to let the men who killed Ahmad Arbery to go free. A friend says he would rather be tried by 12 then carried by 6. I personally have no weapons, but I understand the sentiment.

    BTW: Gun purchases surged after Biden too.

    Edit to add:

    Anecdote: White supremacists threatened to show up during the Tulsa Centennial. An armed Black activist group showed up. No supremacists in sight.

    Gun purchases surged after Biden too.

    Yeah but it doesn't make me proud to be white because a bunch of idiots bought a bunch of guns. I'll explain why they're dumb asses just as I could explain why the surge in black gun ownership is driven by shit for brains blacks. The difference between you and me is you'd explain why the right wing buying of guns is idiotic and are proud that blacks can be just as moronic


    Correlation is not causation.Groups, both left and right, often say they'll do something and then don't. It wouldn't be the first time WS promised to be somewhere and when it came to pass they weren't there even without armed counter protestors. When ever there's a promise of protestors, whether left or right, the first question I wait to be answered is how many if any are going to show up. Few or none is more commonly the answer with far right promises.

    There is lack of trust between some Blacks and the police and the justice system. Until measures are taken to address that problem, gun purchases will continue. If calling them shit for brains Blacks makes you feel good, have at it. I'll work on tightening Guns laws. Understanding why purchases are increasing is important. Some people are purchasing AR-15's, much more than needed for simple self or home protection.

    But you don't have any problem with me calling white gun nuts dumb asses for exactly the same reasons. The white gun nuts claim they don't trust the police, the government and the justice system too 

    ^ So well said.  yes  This is exactly where official BLM ethos and its fellow travelers and MAGA meet: libertarianism. You can't be a member of the Democratic big government party and an agitator for separatist identarianism both, they don't synch. You either trust blue city governments to repair problems for everyone living in the city or you don't. You can't play it both ways. If you don't trust to work within the government and electoral politics, then you are with the libertarians. You don't support your police force under Democratic politicians, it's no different than the farmer in Montana that doesn't support the E.P.A.'S rules about what he does with his land. I could understand it if they are a minority living under a Republican city administration that is purposely trying to disenfranchise certain groups, but arming oneself against blue city governments is libertarian reasoning. And here's the thing I believe now after much reading things like polls: those that are doing that are a very small minority of a minority. Furthermore, a lot of the ones actually acting out are an even smaller minority of young people enthralled by gang culture, which is also separatist at its core.

    p.s. back to topic, goes with it: Juneteenth has now been officially appropriated for the entire U.S. culture. To paraphrase MLK, everybody is sitting at that table now. Identitarian people like rmrd think: "we" still own it, is "our" holiday. Nope, belongs to every citizen now, all the whypipple can celebrate, including the descendants of those white military who came in to enforce the rule of new law. The new minority that won't be celebrating a national (not black) holiday: those who still think the Confederacy had a point. You're either for this big-tent nation or you're not.

    edit to add: It's not rocket science to figure out why so many Republicans in Congress voted for this: appropriated and done with, quit your complaining now

    You can celebrate Juneteenth any way you choose.

    There may special sales in the stores.

    I had a great time at the celebration today

    Food, friends, inspiration, musing about the meaning of the day.


    The vote on the George Floyd is coming up in the Senate.

    It will probably die.

    Thanks Manchin, Sinema, McConnell, etc.

    The fight will go on.

    Edit to add:

    I think one store chain had a white sale on MLK Day.

    I'm working to get the number of rounds that can be sold decreased.

    Its a baby step, but it's a step

    You are whining.

    You have no idea what I'm working on, so why not for once just shut the fuck up, you pompous little asshat.


    You take enjoyment in the plight of Black people

    Aii you have are insults and profanity.

    Suck my dick, you bigoted conniving shit.

    No Thanks

    You let pity olympics slide with no problem

    No you are getting enraged over replies to your posts

    I'm getting enraged with you accusing people of enjoying the suffering of black people. You have a couple days off now for your Mother Theresa work, and when/if you come back, cut that nasty shit out.

    Trump on Juneteenth:

    Here are the screen grabs and link to the interview: https://t.co/KJ6dpnT7RP

    And here’s the book with the rest of the story: https://t.co/OzP4B07fHK pic.twitter.com/ygZBr4WWjo

    — Michael C. Bender (@MichaelCBender) June 19, 2021

    It's a good celebration, and more importantly: he's the one who made it famous, doncha know. laugh The diehard fans will of course, agree, because: best president evah.

    Again, if people want to support Trump, there is little that can be done

    If they agree with the Big Lie and voter suppression, the problem is not BLM or the Woke.

    Trump's fantasy is not surprising 

    Support Juneteenth, but reject teaching about race

    Trump cannot take away the joy of the day

    Latest Comments