Interview with Hillary Clinton; "History Will Curse You"; North Korea Power Struggle
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM. Happening now, the secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, one-on-one with CNN in Jerusalem. She talks about her hostile reception in Egypt, her own words being used against President Obama in the presidential campaign and a whole lot more. The interview coming up. Also, a spying scandal inside the Food and Drug Administration. The agency secretly reading e-mails by its own scientists. And a possible power struggle at the highest levels inside North Korea. The country's army chief suddenly ousted. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. She's in the final stretch of a grueling two week mission that has taken her around the world. And today, the secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, was in Jerusalem, where she spoke to CNN about some of the most pressing diplomatic issues she's now facing, as well as some politics -- presidential politics, to be specific, back home. Our foreign affairs reporter, Elise Labott, is traveling with her. She conducted the one-on-one interview with the secretary of State. Elise is joining us now from Jerusalem -- Elise, give us some of the highlights. What did the secretary of State tell you?</s>ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was a very wide- ranging interview about her trip to Egypt, where she met with the -- she's the first U.S. Official to meet with the president, Mohamed Mursi. She's -- she received a very hostile reception. We were bombarded with water bottles thrown at her, shoes, which is very disrespectful in the Arab world. And there's a lot of concern about U.S. Policy. We talked about that. We talked about Iran, Syria and about Mitt Romney using her own words against her about President Obama this during the 2008 campaign. Let's listen to what had to say.</s>LABOTT: Madame Secretary, thank you so much for joining us. Let's start with your trip to Egypt. It wasn't a very warm welcome by a lot of Egyptians. There were very nasty protests, protesters throwing shoes in your meetings with Christian leaders, a lot of uncertainty about U.S. Policy. It doesn't seem very popular. They feel that you're siding with the Muslim Brotherhood.</s>HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, Elise, there's a lot of uncertainty and anxiety in Egypt right now. They're doing something they've never done in, you know, 5,000 plus years of history. They have had elections. They've elected a president, but they still don't have a government. They don't know what the platform is going to be. They're not sure of the legal standing of some of their new institutions. And there are understandable concerns be many, many Egyptians. I -- I don't think that's at all unusual. But what I was looking for was a chance to hear directly from people. And I knew very well there would be a lot of passion and conviction expressed, which I think demonstrates how invested the Egyptians are in trying to make sure their democratic transition works out for the benefit of all the Egyptians, men and women, Muslim and Christian, everybody.</s>LABOTT: Are you prepared to use U.S. Influence, like aid, to make sure the military lets that transition happen?</s>CLINTON: Well, we've been talking with everybody in Egypt about what we can do to try to help their economic situation, which is quite serious. But until there's a government in place, until there's a finance minister and a prime minister, people with whom we can actually talk specifics, we won't be able to know exactly what we can offer, what we can expect and then what kind of accountability to seek.</s>LABOTT: Let's talk about Syria. A year ago, when you were in Lithuania, you said that time was running out for the Assad regime. There were 1,000 people dead. When you were in Tokyo, you said the sands are coming out of the hourglass. Now there are 10,000 people are dead. Now, what is the threshold, Madam Secretary, that these don't become empty words and there will some type of intervention to get rid of President Assad?</s>CLINTON: Well, we are trying to intervene. We're trying to intervene in a way that brings about an end to the violence and a transition to a democratic future; that doesn't require adding to the violence, further militarizing the conflict, perhaps killing more people and pushing them across the borders. I think that everyone is very wary, for good reason, of that kind of intervention. But, certainly, what we've tried to do to get nations that have been skeptical on board with us, most particularly the Russians and the Chinese, what we've done to try to help reassure and provide humanitarian assistance to the neighboring countries that are absorbing the refugees. But, you know, Elise, everybody is as outraged as I am -- and I think for very good reason -- at what we see happening. It's horrific what's happening. But, you know, you have to look at all the consequences of any action that the outside could take. And, you know, there are many instances that I could point to where you could make things worse. You could add to the violence through some kind of military intervention, which is why you see the region itself, which is living with this terrible regime and what it's doing to its people, being especially careful. So, yes, the time is running out. I can't put a -- a definite, you know, hour and minute on it. But the Assad regime is not going to survive. I just wish it would end sooner instead of later.</s>LABOTT: Yes, but you keep saying that the Russians need to pay a price. You're urging the world to show Russia there's a price. What price is the U.S. Prepared to make Russia pay?</s>CLINTON: Well, our commitment is to try to get Russia to cooperate with us. So we want the rest of the world to put pressure on Russia, in the Security Council, so that they will support a Chapter 7 resolution, where we can impose very hard sanctions on people and institutions that support the regime. That would be the best signal we could send to Assad that his days are numbered. As long as he has Iran in his corner, which he does, and as long as he has Russia uncertain about whether or not to side against him in any more dramatic way than it already has, he feels like he can keep going. And that's the message we want to reverse.</s>LABOTT: I know you don't like to talk about politics right now, but Mitt Romney is using you in a campaign -- in a negative ad against President Obama -- using a clip of you talking in the campaign. How does that make you feel?</s>CLINTON: Well, you know, I am out of politics. And I haven't seen any of the -- the ads that you're talking about. But I have to say, I think it's a waste of money. I mean everybody knows I ran against President Obama in 2008. That's hardly news. Everybody knows we ran a hard-fought campaign and he won. And I have been honored to serve as his secretary of State, working with him to advance America's interests, values and securities.</s>LABOTT: And, Wolf, as you know, Mitt Romney will be here just in a -- in a few weeks. So, obviously, we'll be having a lot of criticism about President Obama's policy, particularly on Iran. You know, a lot of the reason that Secretary Clinton is here is because of Iran. There have been a steady stream of U.S. Officials coming. You had the national security adviser, Tom Donilon, over the weekend. After the Secretary's visit, Leon Panetta, the Defense secretary, will be coming. And this is all about those talks with Iran not going very well. And there's a lot of concern that the Israelis are going to bomb Iran, so much so, Wolf, that this has been dubbed by a lot of analysts as the "please don't bomb Iran tour of 2002." The secretary said there has been unprecedented cooperation and consultations stepping up the Israelis. But there's a lot of news in this neighborhood for her to discuss with the Israelis -- Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Certainly true. Elise Labott, thanks so much. Elise Labott just interviewing the secretary of State for us in Jerusalem. That ad, by the way, that Elise was referring to, that's the Romney campaign ad that uses a clip from Hillary Clinton back in 2008, where she, effectively, is accusing the then candidate for the Democratic nomination, Barack Obama, of lying. And she says, "Shame on you, Barack Obama." That's being used by the Romney campaign right now. And you heard the secretary of State in the interview with CNN just now saying it's a waste of money. Romney campaign officials insist it is not a waste of money. They think it's a pretty powerful ad that they're throwing against the Obama campaign. Much more on the political story coming up later. But there's other news happening right now, including serious fighting in Syria. It has now spread directly to the capital. And a former regime army colonel is warning -- and I'm quoting now -- "the battle for Damascus is coming."</s>BLITZER: Gunfire could be heard in several neighborhoods of Damascus, as government forces clashed with opposition fighters and regime tanks have moved into some parts of the Syrian capital. Now, the former Syrian ambassador to Iraq is speaking out, after becoming one of the regime's highest ranking members to defect. CNN's Ivan Watson is the only Western journalist to interview him. Ivan is Istanbul and he's got the details.</s>IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I sat down for a two hour, one- on-one interview with the most high-ranking Syrian official to publicly abandon his post and defect from the Syrian regime.</s>WATSON: Nawaf al Fares was Syria's man in Baghdad for nearly four years -- that is, until a few days ago, when the Syrian ambassador to Iraq suddenly announced his defection. (on camera): What prompted you to say, I've had it, I don't want to work this government anymore?</s>NAWAF AL FARES, FORMER SYRIAN AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ (through translator): I served the Syrian regime for 34 years in many different positions. But after what happened in the last year, during the holy revolution -- all of the killings, the massacres, the refugees -- I don't see how anyone can remain silent. So I decided to end my relationship with this regime.</s>WATSON (voice-over): Fares has long been one of Bashar al-Assad's trusted lieutenants, an insider who knows how the Syrian government works. (on camera): Who is making the decisions in Damascus right now?</s>AL FARES: The regime in Syria is a totalitarian regime and a dictatorship. There is only one person who gives the orders. That person is the president.</s>WATSON: In his first interview with a U.S. news organization since his defection, Fares rejected Syrian government claims that the Syrian rebels are Al Qaeda terrorists. Instead, he accuses the Assad regime of cooperating with Al Qaeda ever since the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, by paving a way for Al Qaeda militants to transit Syria to attack targets in neighboring Iraq.</s>AL FARES: Bashar al-Assad and his security forces are directly responsible for the killings of thousands and thousands of Iraqis and coalition forces, because he gave Al Qaeda everything it needed. He trained them and gave them shelter.</s>WATSON: Fares points to a controversial cross-border U.S. military raid in 2008 against the Syrian town of al-Sukkariyeh. Fares claims the American target was an Al Qaeda camp run by Assef Shawkat, the brother-in-law of the Syrian president. (on camera): You saw with your own eyes that Assef Shawkat was leading this Al Qaeda in Iraq operation?</s>AL FARES: One hour after the raid, Assef Shawkat was there at the location. A conversation took place between me and him. And he was angry about the attack made against al-Sukkariyeh and he was kind of scared.</s>WATSON: Fares is now in Doha, under the protection of the Qatari government. Syrian opposition members applaud the ambassador's defection, but tell CNN they don't trust a man who waited 16 months before joining the uprising. (on camera): What message would you like to send to Bashar Al-Assad and to your former colleagues in the Syrian government right now?</s>AL FARES: My former colleagues, I ask them to join the people and leave this corrupt regime. There is still time. To Bashar al-Assad, I say, you don't know history. Two wills cannot be defeated -- the will of God and the will of the people. History will curse you for the crimes you committed in Syria.</s>WATSON: A blunt warning from a man who was once one of the Syrian regime's top enforcers.</s>WATSON: Wolf, perhaps the most surprising thing to hear from Nawaf al Fares was that he was publicly endorsing a foreign military intervention into Syria to overthrow his old boss, Bashar Al-Assad, the Syrian president, the reason being, he says nothing but force can drive out a man that he knows far too well -- Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Ivan Watson reporting for us with that exclusive interview. Thank you. The vice presidential buzz here in the United States -- seeking candidates and a whole lot more. We're going to talk about all of the latest developments in the race for the White House with our senior political analyst, Ron Brownstein. Also, new developments in an effort to purge voter rolls. We're taking a closer look at the possible impact on the presidential election. And when pigs fly, so does controversy. We have the uproar over some unusual service animals.