What Does The Democratic Party Want To Be In 2020?
LEMON: So the Democrats have a dilemma heading into 2020. Which group of voters will be the key to victory? Back with me now are Keith Boykin and Joe Lockhart. I mean, I guess all of them, right? Getting all of them would be a real key to victory. OK, two schools of thought here, Keith, on how to beat President Trump in 2020. Do you appeal to the young, diverse voters, the energy of the party right now or take back those traditional working class voters Democrats who went for Trump in 2016? What do you think?</s>BOYKIN: I think you dance with the ones who brought you. I mean, people who have been loyal to the Democratic Party are the ones that you want to turn out to vote. That doesn't mean you disregard the concerns of other people who might come along, but you don't forget the people who have supported you all along. Look at the history. Democrats have won the popular vote in six of the last seven elections. We also know that Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump. We know that Barack Obama got more votes than Donald Trump. There is a record here that Democrats can base their election on for 2020. There's a model that shows you can get more votes than Donald Trump easily with a black candidate, with a woman candidate. You don't necessarily have to have Joe Biden or a white male candidate although Joe Biden as a white male candidate could still beat Donald Trump. But the Democrats should find whoever the best candidate is, put that candidate out there, and let that candidate win the election against Trump.</s>LEMON: The candidate that speaks to the people in those states that need be won in Pennsylvania, Michigan and on and on, the best candidate who can speak to those folks, because remember, if you look at The New York Times' reporting and the research, the party is moderate, essentially. The loudest voices are the ones that are being deemed by the right or maybe even some of them self-professed socialists. And the loud voices on Twitter are the people who really show up to the polls. It is the people who are not on Twitter, older people, moderate Democrats.</s>LOCKHART: Yeah. And the story of 2018 which was missed by a lot was moderate Democrats picked up the majority of the seats. I think 33 out of 40 of the House seats were in the primaries. The more liberal candidate was defeated by a more moderate in the primary and then elected to Congress. So I think the party is moderate. The candidate who is able to do both is the one who is going to be able to win. You can't say that I'm going to run a campaign just to win back Trump Democrats, because the base constituent the Democratic Party, African-Americans, women, Latinos, women as a whole. If they don't show up in higher numbers than for Hillary Clinton, we won't win. And the opposite is true. If you're Joe Biden and you can't appeal to young people who are going to turn out, then you won't win. So it's got to be someone who stands up and is able to appeal to the core constituency and the new voters that the Democrats have brought into the system.</s>LEMON: Listen, this is -- I want to put this. This is Pete Buttigieg. He gave a very candid answer when talking about his lack of support with black voters. Listen.</s>MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG, SOUTH BEND, INDIANA: I need help. So the black voters who know me best, the people of South Bend, helped return me to office by an overwhelming margin. But out here, people are just getting to know me. There are folks who will find their way to me anywhere I go and there are folks who I will never connect with unless we reach out to them. And yeah I can go and have lunch in Harlem at Sylvia's with Reverend Al Sharpton, and yeah I can go sit down with Charlamagne on "The Breakfast Club," but there are so many other different places and people that we need to find and reach, and I can't do it alone.</s>LEMON: I thought that was a pretty candid answer. It is pretty clear that Democrats aren't going to win without the support of people of color.</s>BOYKIN: Right.</s>LEMON: One other key that can turn around in 2020. He had a very interesting thing there. He said, I can go to Sylvia's in Harlem and, you know, with Al Sharpton or I can go to -- and talk in "The Breakfast Club" with Charlamagne but -- what do you think?</s>BOYKIN: President Trump is the mayor of South Bend, Indiana. South Bend is 40 percent, I think, people of color or 40 percent African- American or something like that. He should have African-American supporters out there already. He should have people who can speak for him, vouch for him. He should have a record that he can call upon. He should be able to use that. You can't, as a mayor of a small city, expect to introduce yourself to entire American population and to African-Americans in a year and a half campaign span if you don't have that track record already out there. So, I'm not confident quite frankly that Pete Buttigieg would be able to do that, especially in a place like South Carolina. Remember, even Barack Obama ran for president in South Carolina and other states as well, African-Americans did not support Barack Obama, an African-American candidate.</s>LEMON: They didn't know him.</s>BOYKIN: Exactly. They didn't support him. So you think they're going to support --</s>LEMON: -- the Congressional Black Caucus --</s>BOYKIN: Of course. I just want to say, do you think they are not going to support Pete Buttigieg? You have to have -- they supported Hillary Clinton until Barack Obama won the Iowa caucuses. Black people said, oh, we should take a look at this guy, and that's when he started doing well.</s>LEMON: Yeah. Listen, I live in Harlem. And there are -- people feel that he has to expand beyond. Reverend Sharpton is can get a lot of black folks. He has a machine behind him with the National Action Network. That is definitely legitimate. Charlamagne has a machine behind him when it comes to "The Breakfast Club," very popular morning show. But you got to go beyond that, as you said. Is it pretty much incumbent to have that record before?</s>BOYKIN: I think you have to have the record before. I love Al Sharpton. I used to go on the show in different network. I like Charlamagne. I like the work that he is doing. I know he's been here on this network, too. But that's not all there is to black America. There are a lot of black people who don't listen to those shows.</s>LEMON: They're great platforms. You can't deny that.</s>BOYKIN: Exactly. They're great platforms. There are a lot of black people who don't go to black churches or a lot of black people who don't associate --</s>LEMON: Go to Sylvia's.</s>BOYKIN: They don't go to -- I haven't been to Sylvia's in 10 years.</s>LEMON: And you live in Harlem as well.</s>BOYKIN: There are other restaurants in Harlem besides Sylvia's, too. There is a lot more. You can't look like you're just pandering. Hillary Clinton got in trouble with this in 2016. My students at Columbia used to question Hillary Clinton because of the comments she made on the radio show, "The Breakfast Club," about having hot sauce in her bag. They said, oh, she's stealing this from Beyonce. She's actually been doing this when she was in Arkansas as the first lady of Arkansas. But people especially young black voters, they're not going to trust any new person who comes along --</s>LEMON: I know you want to get in, buy let me ask you. Does he have a chance, you think, with the nomination? He has got senators Cory Booker and Kamala Harris. Vice President Joe Biden, he's tied with President Obama and has some --</s>LOCKHART: I'll tell you the reason. He does have a chance because if you look at South Carolina right now, Joe Biden is leading by double digits among African-Americans. It's not a prerequisite for African- American voters that you have to be African-American. I interpreted his comments a little bit differently than I think you guys did, which is I think he was reaching out and saying, yes, I can do the Sharpton stuff and this, but I have to do way more. I have to -- you know, there are people -- he said, I think quote, there are people that won't come to me, that I have to go to them. And I think he was very candid and humble there. And the question is --</s>LEMON: I think you're right. I said -- I said -- I wasn't interpreting. I was asking question.</s>BOYKIN: Yeah, I agree with you in the interpretation. I'm just saying --</s>LEMON: I thought he was very candid in saying that I need help.</s>BOYKIN: Yeah. I'm just saying I don't think he has a good chance at doing this in the short time span he is allowed.</s>LOCKHART: I am not suggesting that he is going to do this. But remember, with Keith's point, winning Iowa, winning maybe in New Hampshire will give people a new look at him among all voters.</s>LEMON: It's still early. It's very early. Good luck to all of them (ph).</s>LEMON: We'll be right back. Thank you.