Should Congress Have Passes a Stimulus Bill?
ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, the</s>CAPITAL GANG. MARK SHIELDS, HOST: Welcome to CAPITAL GANG, and merry Christmas. I'm Mark Shields with the full CAPITAL GANG, now that's Al Hunt, Robert Novak, Kate O'Beirne and Margaret Carlson. At mid-week, President Bush declared victory in the quest for an economic stimulus bill.</s>GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am proud to report that members of both political parties in both bodies of Congress have come to an agreement as to how to stimulate our economy.</s>SHIELDS: The Republican House passed the bill, but the leader of the Democratic Senate rejected it, and Congress went home for Christmas with no action on a stimulus bill.</s>SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MINORITY LEADER: We know full well that there would be a clear majority in the Senate, bipartisan once again, for a stimulus package that would help the American people get a job and keep a job. But Senator Daschle, thwarting the will of the president, the House of Representatives and the Senate, has made it clear that he would object to bringing up that legislation.</s>SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: It's amazing to me that there is the intransigence on the other side when it comes to helping laid-off workers. That's really what this debate is all about now.</s>BUSH: I'm not angry at all, I am joyous. No, but I don't intend to bring them back early.</s>SHIELDS: Bob Novak, after the failure of the stimulus bill, who are the winners and the losers here?</s>BOB NOVAK, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": I think the big winner are the American people, because all those versions of a stimulus bill were inadequate. What they need is deep tax cuts, including a capital gains tax cuts. What they had in there was not going to help the economy. But politically -- this is all about politics, Mark. I think you understand that.</s>SHIELDS: Thank you.</s>NOVAK: And politically, I think the president was the winner, that the Democrats thoughts ever since September 11 they could play the Bob Shrum/James Carville game, which is support them on the war and attack them on domestic. They thought he was a pushover. He wasn't a pushover. And Senator Daschle, who is very smart and very effective, had a very bad month of December, culminating in the fact that he had a -- he is a majority leader without a majority, because majority of the Senate was ready to pass that bill. He wouldn't let it come up. And so, he is the political loser.</s>SHIELDS: Al Hunt, George W. Bush big winner, Tom Daschle big loser?</s>AL HUNT, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": No. No, absolutely not. I don't think there is any big winner or big loser in this. I agree with Bob. It was a terrible bill, it shouldn't have been passed. Of course what Bob proposes would not have been stimulus, and that was the benchmark that was laid down about two months ago by the Budget Committee chairmen and the ranking members on both sides, by Alan Greenspan, by Bob Rubin, and it was Bill Thomas who chose to totally ignore that and instead create a bill that was...</s>HUNT: ... he was going to grease the palms of campaign contributors and then give away the K Street. That's where this whole thing went awry. But you know, I love those Republican senators coming out with a line that Trent Lott had about Tom Daschle. Frank Luntz who was the Republican pollster and strategist met in the Republican caucus and he gave him these talking points. He said, here's what you do, you come out and you go after Daschle, and he said, it's time for everyone to start saying talking about Daschle and the Democrats using the word "obstructionist." We have to do to Daschle what they did to Gingrich. I mean, I'll tell you something, I knew Newt Gingrich, as you did. Tom Daschle ain't no Newt Gingrich. He is much smarter than that. They've done this in South Dakota. They ran vicious -- they being conservatives -- ran vicious ads out there. Karl Rove went out there and criticized him, Karen Hughes has done radio shows out there, and they just got a poll back, and they're up three points, there's a 70 percent job approval rating for Tom Daschle. It's not going to work.</s>SHIELDS: Al makes an interesting point on South Dakota, where Bill Janklow, the retiring Republican governor, is thinking about running for the U.S. House, and said: "I am close to both George W. Bush and Tom Daschle, the two most powerful men in the country. Therefore, I will be elected to the House." So, I mean, you wonder how much of a political problem Tom Daschle has.</s>NOVAK: Is this all about South Dakota? I'm confused.</s>NOVAK: I wasn't talking about South Dakota, though.</s>SHIELDS: Oh, OK.</s>KATE O'BEIRNE, "NATIONAL REVIEW": Tom Daschle won't be running when other Democrats are, and polls are showing -- other recent polls this week -- that by a very wide margin, the public agrees with the Bush Republican approach, that it's more important to cut taxes on business -- the public recognizing this is a business-led recession -- than it is to give unemployment benefits, although the package that Tom Daschle blocked had $12 billion in increased unemployment and health care benefits. I agree with Bob. I think that the economy doesn't need the kind of modest package that they were able to finally agree on with some Senate Democrats. And politically, I don't think George Bush needs it at all. If the economy recovers on its own, nobody is going to much care whether or not there was a stimulus package. The president and incumbents will get credit for. And if it doesn't recover next year, I think it's better for George Bush to be able to say, Democrats running for re-election blocked a good stimulus plan than have passed what apparently wound up being an ineffectual plan.</s>SHIELDS: Margaret Carlson, tell us who is right here.</s>MARGARET CARLSON, "TIME" MAGAZINE: About three weeks ago, both parties decided that they weren't going to have a bill, and they were going to begin the process of blaming each other. And it wasn't, you know, just the ads, but Ari Fleischer from -- during the White House briefing started demonizing Tom Daschle. And as Al said, it's very hard to do. I mean, Newt Gingrich did himself in. Tom Daschle is much smarter than that. He has a decent relationship with George Bush. I did not see the president using up much of his capital on this bill. He went up there the last day when it was surely too late. And the press -- the public relations war was won when the House Republicans tried to roll back the alternative minimum tax and give millions of dollars to corporations.</s>O'BEIRNE: The package that -- that has a majority support in both Houses, had accelerated tax cuts for middle-income families...</s>NOVAK: Yeah.</s>O'BEIRNE: ... making 48,000, dual-work wage earners, it had $12 billion in expanded benefits. That package has a majority in both houses, and that's the package...</s>NOVAK: Including the Senate.</s>CARLSON: But it got a bad name for the effort to roll back. But that is the face on that bill.</s>HUNT: It was a scandalous bill, and they turned it into an outrageous bill.</s>HUNT: The rich got far more than those middle-income people.</s>SHIELDS: I will have the following to say, the White House is absolutely spooked by middle mannered, soft-spoken Democratic Senate majority leader. They think that George Mitchell undid the first President Bush's term.</s>NOVAK: He did. He did!</s>SHIELDS: Like somehow in a Svengali-like way, Rasputin-like, getting him to drop his "no new taxes" pledge. I couldn't agree more than with Margaret when she said, here's a guy with 86 percent approval, President George W. Bush, and he doesn't get involved in the process until the final 36 hours? I'm sorry, that's not a guy willing to spend political capital.</s>NOVAK: Listen, that's turning the thing on its head, because...</s>O'BEIRNE: He didn't need it that badly...</s>O'BEIRNE: ... stimulus package that badly.</s>NOVAK: Here's what happened at the end. At the end of the process, the only thing that they were interested in -- and as Tom Daschle said in that soundbite -- was health care for the unemployed. That's stimulus for the economy? Give me a break! That isn't stimulus! All right, so the Republicans...</s>SHIELDS: If you're unemployed, that's stimulus.</s>NOVAK: Just a minute. It's aid, that's not stimulus. At the very end, the Republicans come up with an alternative, a tax credit, which three Democratic senators approved. That's why -- that's right. And with the Republicans, that's a majority.</s>O'BEIRNE: It would help more laid-off workers too than the Democratic plan.</s>NOVAK: Exactly. And when the Democrats and the labor unions see people operating on their own with tax credits, they say absolutely not, and that's where they killed the bill.</s>O'BEIRNE: Good point, bob.</s>HUNT: There would have been far less given to the unemployed in this bill, this Republican bill, than was given 10 years ago. That's how -- and it would have been twice as much given to corporations and upper-income taxpayers.</s>SHIELDS: Last word, Al Hunt. The gang of five will be back with Afghanistan and the American al Qaeda.