More Bad Journalism in "Rolling Stone" Story
BRIAN STELTER, CNN HOST: Good morning. I'm Brian Stelter. It's Sunday, December 14th, and it is time for RELIABLE SOURCES. This morning, too little, too late. The writer of that disputed "Rolling Stone" story about rape is calling her sources back. But one of those sources is refusing to talk to the writer again. She will tell me why. Plus, torture in Hollywood. The movie "Zero Dark Thirty" told a story about the hunt for Osama bin Laden, a story that is now refuted by a new Senate report. What should we believe? And home for the holidays. An emotional plea to the Iranian government by the brother of jailed "Washington Post" reporter Jason Rezaian.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, just let him come home and be with us. It's the holidays and we all just want to be together.</s>STELTER: And first this morning, new developments in a year's long standoff between the federal government and a "New York Times" reporter. Attorney General Eric Holder has decided that the Justice Department will not try to force James Risen to identify his anonymous source. You may remember, I recently Risen here on this show. Back in 2006, Risen's source told him about a botched CIA plot to disrupt Iran's nuclear weapons program. The government has been trying to prosecute the man it believes was the source for Risen's story. So, Risen was facing the prospect of jail time because he was refusing to give up the source. Now, sources tell CNN's Evan Perez that it's off the table, that jail time is not a possibility, that Risen will not have to reveal that source. Very good news for Risen and his family. Also, new information about the disturbing and now this disputed "Rolling Stone" story, about an alleged gang rape at the University of Virginia. Sabrina Rubin Erdely's story, "A Rape On Campus", recounted a brutal attack suffered by a woman named Jackie at a UVA fraternity party. But all the pieces did not add up, and "Rolling Stone" apologized for the discrepancies on December 5th. But it has gotten worse since then. In recent days, three students who talked with Jackie after the assault are now all contradicting parts of the story. One of them, Randall, claims he was never even contacted by Erdely even though she wrote that he declined to comment. Let's be clear here: we don't know exactly what happened that night and we should take rape victims' assertions very seriously. But we do know this, we know that Erdely's reporting was negligent, shockingly so. Erdely has not said a word since "Rolling Stone" apologized. Me and many others have been trying to reach her. So, the question for us is: did she ignore facts in order to fit the narrative she wanted to write? I want you to hear what my next guest has to say about that. She's a friend of Jackie, a fellow UVA student, who also spoke to Erdely. Her name is Alex Pinkleton and she joins me now from Charlottesville. Thank you for having me.</s>ALEX PINKLETON, FRIEND OF ALLEGED UVA ASSAULT VICTIM: Thank you for having me.</s>STELTER: Most importantly, how is your friend doing?</s>PINKLETON: She's -- it's a chaotic time for her. So, she's hanging in there.</s>STELTER: And when is the last time you spoke to her? Because I saw that on Wednesday, her and her family retained a lawyer. Is she still in touch with you?</s>PINKLETON: She was in touch with me earlier this week. I'm sure she has a lot going on. So --</s>STELTER: I think I should ask, before you get into the dealings with the reporter, do you believe her story? Because I've seen some of her friends quoted saying, yes, they do. I've seen others raised doubts.</s>PINKLETON: I definitely believe something traumatic happened to her that night. That has been something consistent from the night of the three friends that saw her, and moving forward, everyone that she told has always been that she was raped. So, I'm definitely not questioning that.</s>STELTER: Back last month when this story was first published and got a lot of national attention, you were quoted in "The Washington Post" on November 21st, as saying you believed her account was 100 percent true. Do you still think it's 100 percent true?</s>PINKLETON: I think some of the details we're finding out may have some discrepancies due to trauma. That's something that comes along with being a survivor. You don't know exactly what happened that night and I think one thing that she might have done is try to fill in the blanks herself and might have filled it in with something that isn't entirely, quote/unquote, "true", but it's something that she believes may have happened to her that night and it got lost with the traumatic events.</s>STELTER: So, do you put more accountability on the reporter who decided to publish her story and not thoroughly fact check?</s>PINKLETON: I definitely am not blaming Jackie at all for this situation. Sabrina had the power to look into the matter more and this either would not have been published at all or she would have noticed the inconsistencies, and went from there.</s>STELTER: So, what did you experience with the reporter? She was on the campus for a long time. She interviewed you and a lot of other students. What were your impressions of her?</s>PINKLETON: I think she had her heart in the right place. She wanted to bring light to this issue and it is a prevalent issue at UVA and at campuses across the nation. However, she did have an agenda, and part of that agenda was showing how monstrous fraternities themselves as an institution are, and blaming the administration for a lot of the sexual assaults.</s>STELTER: What were some of the questions that she asked you that made you feel that way?</s>PINKLETON: When she asked about my own assault, she kept asking, did he fed you the drinks? Was he keeping tabs of the drink that night? And he wasn't and that's something that I had to keep saying over and over again, and I think -- I felt like she wasn't satisfied with my perpetrator as someone who wasn't clearly monstrous.</s>STELTER: Let me go into more detail about that. To be clear to the viewers at home, you are a rape survivor. This happened your freshman year at UVA?</s>PINKLETON: It happened my second year.</s>STELTER: Your second year. So, it happened last year?</s>PINKLETON: Yes.</s>STELTER: Tell me what you told her about it because I've seen you quoted elsewhere saying that you felt like Sabrina Erdely just chose the most sensational, the most extreme story to write about it.</s>PINKLETON: Right. Well, I don't like to use the word typical, but the type assaults that we see on college campuses a lot of times do deal with alcohol and they're not as clear cut at all what was in the "Rolling Stone" article. What we see is that people will be at a party, at a fraternity or an apartment, and they'll be drinking and then one person has drank a lot more than the other, they are in a state of blackout or they're unconscious and then their perpetrator rapes them. And that was similar to my case, where I had drank a lot of alcohol that night, was unconscious and came to with him on top of me. So, very -- it's a very clear-cut rape in the sense that you know it's rape, but it's not what she was looking for of where we had a very innocent victim and a very monstrous perpetrator.</s>STELTER: When you say innocent victim, you sound like an innocent victim.</s>PINKLETON: Self-blame is a huge issue for survivors and I guess that comes out sometimes.</s>STELTER: I wanted to ask about a few quotes that were from you in her article, because she writes this 9,000-word article. You appear in it a couple of times. And when I read this quote, I wondered, did she get it right? Let me put it up on screen. She wrote, talking about frat culture, social culture, how girls who are drunk always get in, it's a good idea to act drunker than you really are. Also, you have to seem very innocent and vulnerable. That's why they love the first-year girls. So, that's a quote from you in her piece. Was it accurate? Did she at least quote you accurately?</s>PINKLETON: That is something I said. I think it's definitely true that the fraternities play a significant role in sexual assault. We know that you're more likely to be sexually assaulted in fraternities. I just didn't like that it seems like she was looking for a story that had to be in a fraternity.</s>STELTER: So, you felt like you were quoted accurately in the piece. Did you see other inaccuracies, though, elsewhere in the story?</s>PINKLETON: I mean, just from the information that we're getting from "The Washington Post," it's very clear that there needed to be fact checking and verifying of the story in general. So, I definitely see discrepancies now. But --</s>STELTER: It does sound like you don't trust the reporter anymore.</s>PINKLETON: I think that she should have fact checked and I'm really upset and angry like a lot of people are that that didn't happen and now we're in a very difficult situation.</s>STELTER: Has she been back in touch with you in recent weeks?</s>PINKLETON: She has contacted me since the article and in recent weeks, yes.</s>STELTER: So, tell me about that. When did she reach out to you and why?</s>PINKLETON: I am under the impression that she just wants to know what's going on and I think that's a fair question, because I think there's a lot of confusion of what happened that night and she, like everyone else, wants to know, and I basically can't tell anyone else any more than what I've already said.</s>STELTER: Yes, I know that "Rolling Stone" is reporting the story, reviewing the story, figuring out what went wrong, but I haven't heard that Sabrina herself, the writer herself, is getting back in touch with her sources. I guess it suggests that she herself is also re-reporting her own story and trying to get to the bottom of it.</s>PINKLETON: I'm not really sure. I haven't responded yet.</s>STELTER: Why haven't you -- why haven't you responded?</s>PINKLETON: I am in the middle of exams and I have two more next week and I have a paper due tonight. So, I really don't have that much time to talk to her.</s>STELTER: So, it's not that you resent her and don't want to deal with her?</s>PINKLETON: I don't resent most people. Again, I think her intentions were good. I just think that the job was done poorly, and I am upset with that aspect of it, but I also know that she was trying to come from a point of advocacy. But as a reporter, you can't be like an advocate and support a story and listen to it and think everything is true and then report on it without trying to figure out if it's true. My job as an advocate was never to question Jackie's story or question the details, because I didn't need to. But the role that she's in as a reporter --</s>STELTER: Right.</s>PINKLETON: -- she needed to do that.</s>STELTER: So, as we wrap up, what's your takeaway throughout all of this?</s>PINKLETON: Well, it's never been about this one story. We know that there are many, many stories of sexual assaults here on the grounds. So, what we've been saying is we want people's main message to be, that regardless of what they think of this article, taking away that this is an issue and if they are willing to engage and help us to try to prevent it with our bystander intervention programs and things like that, then that would be the best outcome we could have of this entire chaotic situation.</s>STELTER: Alex, thank you for joining me.</s>PINKLETON: Thank you.</s>STELTER: And I do think we'll hear something from "Rolling Stone" in the days to come. We are just getting started this morning. And after the break, the question that everyone in Hollywood is asking: can Sony pictures recover from the cyber attack that spilled all of its corporate secrets onto the Internet? I have two guests with answers. So, stay tuned.