Legalizing Marijuana; Marijuana Movement is Growing
TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. Just in national news, it was another grilling on the Hill today. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told Congress that the government needed to fix hundreds of problems with the Healthcare.gov. We're now learning that you'll have one less set of hands to tackle those issues. The chief information officer for CMS Tony Trenkle, who was in charge of the technology of the federal agency that developed the Web site, has announced that he is retiring from the government and taking a private sector job. No word yet if Trenkle is being pushed out for his role in the site's development. Now for the buried lead, that's what we call stories that we think are not getting enough attention -- don't be surprised if you hear Snoop Dogg buying a summer home in Portland, Maine. Last night, that city became the first city to, quote/unquote, "legalize marijuana", as did three communities in Michigan, including the city of Lansing. These areas are following in the footsteps of Colorado and Washington state which both voted to legalize recreational drug use last November. But what makes these city decriminalization laws a little different is that they essentially made something that was legal that was never illegal under city statutes to begin with. It's a little like saying, let's make eating legal in our town. It was never illegal. But by passing these proposals, cities and towns may have a stronger leg to stand on in their efforts to change state laws that make it illegal to smoke pot. No wonder the movement is gaining some momentum, according to ArcView Market Research. The legal marijuana market is worth almost $1.5 billion nationally and it's expected to top $2.3 billion by next year. That's a 64 percent increase, faster than the market for smartphones, according to "The Huffington Post." Our next guest is Mark Kleiman, a public policy professor at UCLA. And he says, don't be surprised given the current trend if pot is legal nationwide in five years. Mark, thanks so much for being here. We appreciate it. As you heard, we interviewed New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg a few minutes ago. He called legalizing pot a bad idea. He says he thinks it will make drug dealers offer more potent drugs to make up for whatever money they lose for marijuana sales. What do you say to that?</s>MARK A. R. KLEIMAN, PUBLIC POLICY PROFESSOR, UCLA: It's an odd brand of economics. So on what theory are drug dealers who have a market or some other drug not offering it simply because marijuana is legal? I can't make any sense out of that -- that concern. And then the next thing the mayor said was, well, people who smoke pot will then use more potent drugs. Again, no evidence of that. The big question that he don't answer and nobody has an answer to is whether or not making it legal will get fewer people to drink heavily. If it does, that would be a big deal. If it leads more people to drink heavily, that would be a bad thing. And the honest answer about most of this stuff is we don't know, and anybody said he does know he's bluffing.</s>TAPPER: The latest Gallup poll, Professor, shows 58 percent of the American people favor legalizing marijuana. Do you think given the swell of support that more focus needs to put on how to make legalization work rather than debating whether it's a good idea? I mean, has the train left the station and now should we just be worried about safety for the train?</s>KLEIMAN: I think that's right. There are lots and lots of questions that the state has to decide and eventually the federal government will have to decide. The current train that's leaving the station is commercial legalization pretty much on the model of alcohol and tobacco. Those seem to be like two very bad models to follow and I think we ought to be able to do better. But the piecemeal state by state approach rules out what I think is the best solution, which would be to have cannabis distributed by state agencies rather than by for profit private entity. But you can't do that while cannabis is illegal nationally since state officials can't be told to break federal law.</s>TAPPER: Colorado --</s>KLEIMAN: I would like to get this out of the hands of the initiative writers and into the hands of the legislators. I'd like to do it nationally and I'd like to do it calmly. I don't think I'm going to get any of those things.</s>TAPPER: Colorado recently passed a law to tax marijuana sales at a rate of 15 percent. Do you think that's a good model to follow for other states considering legalizing marijuana?</s>KLEIMAN: Unfortunately I don't. There are two problems with that tax. One is the rate is too low and the other is that it's a set of the fraction of the market price and the market price is going to fall with legalization, probably dramatically. What you'd like is a tax that rises as the market price falls to keep the price to the consumer more or less constant. So, I'd like to have an excise tax on THC, which is the main activation in cannabis and adjust that from year to year. But that's not -- not the direction Colorado went in, not the direction that the Washington state went in. And again, if you're putting something up to the voters, it has to be something you can explain in a 30-second spot. And more complicated proposals aren't going to do very well in that context.</s>TAPPER: All right. Fascinating stuff. Professor Kleiman, thanks for joining us. It's like the whole country is changing and nobody in Washington, D.C. is aware of it. Let's check in in our political panel in the green room. Kevin Madden, I hope you don't mind me saying this, that while you may have a great head of hair, you've got nothing on Dante de Blasio's afro.</s>KEVIN MADDEN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Not at all.</s>TAPPER: Featured prominently here during the family's signature smackdown dance from last night's victory party in New York. Could we see the young de Blasio singlehandedly bring back big hair?</s>MADDEN: I think, yes.</s>TAPPER: And if so, are you on board, my friend?</s>MADDEN: I am. I think Dante is going to do for big hair what Jackie Kennedy did for pill box hats. Truly -- and what Jake Tapper did for pocket squares.</s>TAPPER: Very nice.</s>MADDEN: Nobody ever wore pocket squares until you did.</s>TAPPER: That's right. We'll take a look at the real implications of election night, not just the follicle ones when THE LEAD continues.