Lawlessness in Cairo; Million-Man March
JOHN KING, HOST: Thanks Wolf and good evening everyone. President Obama's ambassador to China submitted his resignation this evening to prepare for a possible 2012 presidential run of his own and critics of the Obama health care law are celebrating a huge win in federal court, but first, more dramatic breaking news from Egypt tonight. The government has taken new steps to block Internet access and shut down phone lines -- this an apparent effort to interfere with what Mubarak regime critics vow will be the largest demonstration to date. Here in Washington, the Obama administration is playing down concerns that if President Mubarak is forced out, radical Islamists could seize power. Yet, there's a sense of frustration and uncertainty at the White House. The administration has made clear to President Mubarak he needs an exit strategy but sees no evidence as yet he is ready for a true dialogue with his critics. As one official put it to me quote, "it is not clear he is listening, and he may try to overstay his already overstayed time." A packed hour begins in Cairo with the very latest from CNN's Arwa Damon -- Arwa.</s>ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John. And on that point you were just making there about the concern that exists that if the Mubarak regime should fall there would be some sort of Islamist government that would take over, a lot of strong opinions on that front from the streets of Cairo. People saying that, no, that is not the case because this is not an Islamic revolt. This is a revolt of the people and what they do want is democracy. And anyone who comes into power should President Mubarak fall is also going to be held just as accountable as he is being held by the population right now. And the population here, the demonstrators really digging in. We were just down at Tiananmen Square, Liberation Square where the demonstrations have been concentrated, and it has turned into something of a campsite. Entire families pitching tents determined that no matter what they are going to be taking part in this million-man march that is anticipated for tomorrow. But while there is that sense of excitement at the demonstration site itself, it's not quite what we're seeing in the streets of Cairo. Entire streets deserted. Shops shut down, many of them destroyed. Gas stations empty, lacking fuel or shut down because of security. Banks are not working, ATMs are blank. People are struggling to get money. But even more importantly, they're beginning to struggle to get food. A lot of those people that we've been talking to who are not partaking in the demonstrations voicing their anger and frustration at the difficulties that they're facing in their daily lives -- John.</s>KING: And Arwa, the newly appointed vice president went on television today and promised to open a dialogue. Are the protesters, those organizing the demonstrations, do they take that seriously or is all they want for Mubarak to go?</s>DAMON: They're not taking is seriously, nor are they taking anything that anyone who has anything to do with the current regime seriously. They are sticking to their one demand and that is that the president step down no matter what. And they are saying that they are going to stick it out. They're going to keep up these demonstrations until that does, in fact, take place. All of the reshuffling within the government that we're seeing right now, they're saying that that is insignificant. They are determined to make the point that they do not want any sort of a military regime. They want to see fresh elections; they want to see a new democracy. And they are not going to be listening to what they are calling empty promises that are being made by the current president or by anyone who's been newly appointed -- John.</s>KING: Arwa Damon for us in Cairo -- let's get more now from Nic Robertson who's been in the middle of massive demonstrations in Egypt's second city, Alexandria -- Nic.</s>NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John, the mood on the demonstrations here, one of determination that we've continued to hear all the while the last few days, but it's once of also increasing frustration, it's one of divided opinions from what people should do. The ouster of President Mubarak is a given, but should they give this government that he's talking about, the new government, should they give that a chance? Should they -- or should they just push ahead and get a clean sweep? There's divided opinion there. But I think one of the other opinions that comes across, and we heard it very clearly today, is that the United States, President Obama, should take a stronger position behind the people here, and I heard that from a father and son, Egyptian-Americans, here at one of the demonstrations. And I heard it from another man whose sister and brother both live and work in the United States, so there's a lot of people here with a really nuanced understanding of U.S. foreign policy. And they really want to see the United States come out more strongly in favor of them and their protests because they say they're the new future, and if President Obama and the United States want them as friends in the new future, it better make it known now -- John.</s>KING: It's a fascinating point you make. And Nic, what do they make, the people who are planning to demonstrate, the people who want President Mubarak to go, of the government taking even additional steps tonight, trying to block phone service, cut off what was left of the Internet access, do they view that as defiance from the regime?</s>ROBERTSON: Absolutely. Everything that they're seeing from the regime they view as defiance, but you do have this level of concern from one part of the population that doesn't want disintegration into anarchy and that does think that some stable transition is the best way to go. They're not the loudest voices. But there is a concern that as the regime blocks the phone service again as it did on Friday when we had the big demonstrations, as it's going to cut the rail service, which -- which here in Alexandria the rail, the main rail station terminates right at one of the big rally points here, if the regime is going to try and thwart them in that way, there's a concern that the regime is also trying to divide them by giving -- by essentially sort of having a soft option and a tough option out there. So -- and again, I think one of the things emerging here is there's no clear leadership of the demonstrators. So who do you talk to? Who convinces the demonstrators when it's time to step back? This million-man march again is going to be another key day, but I don't think anyone on the streets today fools themselves and thinks it's going to be over. They know the regime's digging in -- John.</s>KING: Nic Robertson for us in Alexandria -- fabulous reporting. Thank you Nic and can President Mubarak somehow keep his grip on power and can President Obama help bring about a peaceful resolution that leaves Egypt in friendly hands? Nicholas Burns is a veteran diplomat, former under secretary of state and Nick, let me start with you just asking you about tomorrow. They're calling it a millions-man march. Is this a potential tipping point? When the administration sends the new vice president on TV and says we'll have a dialogue and the demonstrators say no, thank you, sir. When the administration cuts off phone service, cuts off Internet service, if the people flow into the streets in more massive numbers than before, what signal does it send?</s>NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE: Well John, I think that tomorrow's going to be a very dramatic and perhaps even a decisive day of the situation in Egypt. It seems that President Mubarak is losing control of the streets. He doesn't appear to have a strategy, at least not one that's publicly visible for how to take this situation and normalize it. He's appointed a government that looks exactly like, in fact is exactly like the government he had before. These new people have not indicated any serious effort to promote reform or open a dialogue with reformers. And so I think that he's quickly going to have to make the decision that he can no longer lead the country. He's going to have to make the decision and make the announcement that he's not going to stand for president in the September elections, nor is his son, Gamal. And the best case scenario would then be that a caretaker government, perhaps with elements of his current team and especially with a military which is highly regarded in Egypt will be able to shepherd the country through the next several months to restore some order but give people hope that the voice of the demonstrators and reformers will be listened to towards that September election. I think, John, that's the best case scenario. There are a lot of bad things that could happen, and this situation could turn obviously in a much more negative direction.</s>KING: Well let's start with the potential for a transitional administration that is peaceful. And on that point if President Mubarak ignores the will of his people, again, after a giant march tomorrow, at what point does the president of the United States need to pick up the phone, Nick, and not say, Mr. President, you need to start thinking about an orderly transition, you need to start reaching out to the critics, at what point does the president have a very blunt conversation and say, President Mubarak, you need to go now?</s>BURNS: Well of course we know from the press, John, that President Obama was in touch with President Mubarak over the weekend, that Secretary Gates was in touch with his counterpart, Mr. Tantawi, that Chairman Mike Mullen was also on the phone, so there is a lot of communication right now --</s>KING: And you know the language of that communication --</s>KING: -- having been involved in sensitive conversations like that. You know the language of the conversation and then what the administration says publicly. But we know they're saying, Mr. President, please leave. Please plan this. When do they say you have to leave? We will not give you aid, you must leave?</s>BURNS: Well, I think -- I think tomorrow will be a decisive day because if the military cracks down on peaceful demonstrators in the streets of Alexandria or Cairo, that will be a decisive factor. And John, I actually think that President Obama and Secretary Clinton have done a really skillful job here of balancing on a tightrope. And here's what they've done. They have clearly articulated in President Obama's Friday evening statement and in Secretary Clinton's Sunday morning remarks that they want a transition to reform. But they have not injected the United States directly into the conflict as if we were directing events because that will backfire on us and so I think they've been skillful in that regard. And I think if any tough message is going to come, it has to come privately as opposed to publicly because as you know, the United States is not popular with many segments of the Egyptian public and if it looks like this scenario is being directed by Washington, it's not going to serve the interests of the United States, nor will it serve the interests of the people that we need to depend on in Egypt. So I think that the administration -- I don't know what they're saying -- I'm not privy to these messages, but I think they're giving a fairly direct message to the government that the time has come for a transition to break the cycle of the crisis.</s>KING: And you mention you hope there's a peaceful and rational transition, orderly transition. What is your concern if that does not happen?</s>BURNS: Oh the concern is that there are a thousand different scenarios here and most of them aren't good. As you know, the Muslim Brotherhood is a considerable force and Egyptian politics is an opposition group. There are others that are extreme Islamist character. And so -- and Egypt's a very complicated and complex country, but if those groups believe that they can begin to direct these events or play a major role in the future, then, of course, all bets are off. There's also the additional complication here that there's a pan- Arab narrative being written. Tunis has influenced Cairo and Cairo is going to influence the events in Sana'a, perhaps even in Damascus over the weekend. And so this is an extraordinary moment for the Arab world in some ways, extraordinarily hopeful because the vast majority of people on the streets are peaceful. They clearly want a better future. They've had to live with corrupt and inefficient governments and so if their power can be harnessed it could be -- it could be a positive ending. But if some of these negative terrorist groups or Islamist -- radical Islamist groups get involved, then of course they could turn this in an entirely negative direction. So a lot is riding on whether or not President Mubarak and his advisers can make this decision that they can't be part of the future, that they have to hand this off to other people. People like Mohamed ElBaradei, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, a very distinguished Egyptian who is back in the country, who would be someone perhaps that the government could turn to and negotiate a transitional period.</s>KING: Nick Burns is a former ambassador, former under secretary of state. Nick, appreciate your insights tonight, we'll keep in touch in the days ahead. And still to come for us, critics of the Obama health care law win a huge victory in federal court. And might the president's 2012 Republican opponent be someone who at the moment works in the Obama administration? Next though Fareed Zakaria on just what to look for next in Egypt.