Al Qaeda's New Top Dog?
BLITZER: The death of Osama bin Laden comes in the middle of historic changes sweeping the Arab world. Some longtime dictators have fallen to pro-democracy movements, while others are using violence to cling to power, often brutal, brutal measures. We want to talk about that with two special guest. "The New York Times" columnist Nicholas Kristof is joining us. And Professor Fouad Ajami, he's director of the Middle East studies program of the John Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies. Guys, thanks very much. Fouad Ajami, first to you. All of the demonstrations we saw in North Africa, in the Middle East, you didn't hear a whole lot of people chanting for Osama bin Laden. They were chanting for democracy and reform. But here's the question. The death of bin Laden, how will this impact what is called the Arab -- the Arab spring?</s>FOUAD AJAMI, PROFESSOR OF MIDDLE EASTERN STUDIES, JOHNS HOPKINS SCHOOL OF ADVANCED INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well, look, bin Laden, by the time he died, he had really become truly irrelevant, particularly for younger Arabs. And we have talked before, Wolf, that he was more popular, Osama bin Laden, in the Af-Pak theater among Afghans, among Pakistanis. Among Arabs, I think, in many -- except for the most extreme of the Arabs, they had kind of wearied of him. And to the extent that the Arab spring is the great story of our time, the great story of 2011, I think you will find al Qaeda on the margins of the concerns of young Arabs, concerned with freedom, with bread, with opportunities and with trying to bring an end to these tyrannies in the Arab world, in Syria, in Libya, and beyond.</s>BLITZER: Certainly, when I was in Egypt recently, I didn't see any strong love for bin Laden. Did you, Nick, when you were there, you were covering the demonstrations in Tahrir Square?</s>NICHOLAS KRISTOF, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": No. And that has really changed. Say, in 2001, 2002, 2003, bin Laden was a real presence to some degree in some Middle Eastern countries, but -- especially those like Yemen, for example. But, over the time, he really has become marginalized. And I think the real impact of his death now is not so much in the Arab world, but rather in Pakistan, where there is a real risk now of a rupture in relations between the U.S. and Pakistan, and in Afghanistan, where, alternatively, there is some real opportunity now for political space and for some kind of a deal toward peace in Afghanistan.</s>BLITZER: Can the Egyptian doctor Ayman al-Zawahiri, Professor Ajami, can he really emerge as the new al Qaeda leader in the footsteps, shall we say, of bin Laden?</s>AJAMI: Well, look, Wolf, I have been an Ayman al-Zawahiri fanatic and a buff and a watcher for a very long time. I picked up his trail very early. On October 6, 1981, many years ago, right after the assassination of Anwar Sadat, a young doctor, an aristocrat, the son of one of the great Cairo families, Ayman al-Zawahiri, was picked up by the police and he was tortured. And under torture, Ayman al-Zawahiri gave up a friend. He broke under torture and has lived with the shame ever since and with the pain of this of this ever since. Can he pick up the pieces? I think he can because he's a very talented man. He's a very dangerous man. And to the extent that we have a public enemy number one, it used to be Osama bin Laden. We have to take Ayman Zawahiri seriously.</s>BLITZER: This is what I'm hearing, Nick. And I want to know if you're hearing anything along these line, but I suspect you probably are as well. The U.S. is really going to go after, not only Ayman al-Zawahiri, but Mullah Mohammed Omar, the former leader of the Taliban -- he's hiding out someplace in Pakistan -- Anwar al-Awlaki, the leader of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. But they're going to do it differently than bin Laden, none of this need to do DNA matches or get the body. They are going to try to just drop a big bomb and kill these guys once and for all. How will that play, if in fact the U.S. does do that? We know, last week, they were close to getting Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen. They just missed.</s>KRISTOF: Yes, I think it will depend a lot where it happens. In the Yemen, we don't really have an alternative of going in and mounting raids. And I think we are likely to do it with drone strikes and I think we're also probably less concerned with intelligence. Now, if we got intelligence right now about Zawahiri is, and he was in Pakistan somewhere, I think there is still a reasonable chance we would go in with commandos and try to get everything that is there, because of those potential linkages that we do want to wrap up. I'm not as convinced that Zawahiri as Fouad will be able to inherit power as successfully. He does have a reputation for being a little more querulous, certainly less charismatic. And he just doesn't command the presence of the sheik, as people used to refer to bin Laden. So, I think it's going to be a tough transition for him.</s>BLITZER: If the U.S. were to send more commandos in, Fouad Ajami, into Pakistan, the Pakistani government says, that's it. They -- they would see that as a huge, huge blow on their sovereignty, which raises, at least in my mind, the thought if the U.S. had information where Ayman al Zawahiri or any of these other guys are, they'd use a Predator zone and a Hellfire missile or some other -- some other -- some other bomb that wouldn't require the U.S. commandos to go in. But give me your thought.</s>AJAMI: Well, we have no choice but to pursue these guys. And one thing about Pakistan. I have some numbers for you, Wolf, which should be very interesting. Six out of every 10 Pakistanis view the U.S. as an enemy. We are -- we are less popular, if you will, than India, in Pakistan. Only 11 percent of Pakistanis think the U.S. is a partner. Only 8 percent of Pakistanis express any confidence in President Obama, the lowest of 22 nations surveyed. Forty-eight percent of educated Pakistanis don't believe that we give Pakistan any aid. Forty-eight percent. Twenty-five percent of Pakistanis, only 25 percent, think that the Taliban victory in Afghanistan is bad for Pakistan. So we need the Pakistanis; we don't trust them. They need us; they don't trust us. And we have to work across this mutual distrust. These are very, very crucial allies. We need them, and we require their help for the Afghan project to succeed, but there you have these great animosities between the U.S. and Pakistan.</s>BLITZER: Let's not forget, as I always point out, 100 nuclear warheads...</s>AJAMI: Absolutely.</s>BLITZER: ... in the Pakistani arsenal, at least. That's hovering over all of these conversations. Fouad Ajami, thanks very much for coming in. Nick Kristoff, thanks as usual. To our viewers who don't follow Nick on Twitter, @NickKristoff, you should follow him in addition to reading his columns in the "New York Times." Much more coverage coming up. We'll stay on top of the bin Laden fallout. Also, what's happening in a Mississippi town. It's next in line after a slow-moving disaster. Our own John King is there. Stand by. He flew over in a helicopter. His report coming up. Plus, Google and Apple executives in the hot seat up on Capitol Hill as lawmakers ask them about your privacy.