Interview With Fred Turck, Andy Stahl
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: For 50 years now, we have been told that forest fires are unwanted and should be prevented. That's what Smokey the Bear has been telling us anyway. And up until now, no one has disputed his message. But a new upstart, a forest creature, Reddy the squirrel, believes that burning isn't necessarily bad. Time now for a Smokey and Reddy to duke it out with their differences in playing with fire. Joining us Fred Turck, who is the Forest Protection coordinator with the Virginia Department of Forestry and in Smokey's corner, and representing Reddy, Andy Stahl, the executive director of Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics. Thank you both, gentlemen, for being with us tonight.</s>FRED TURCK, VA DEPT. OF FORESTRY: Good evening.</s>ANDY STAHL, EXEC. DIR. FEEE: Nice to be here, Martin.</s>SAVIDGE: All right, you know, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to Smokey because well, I've just heard from him for so long. Forest fires, only you can prevent forest fires. Is that the hard fast rule here?</s>TURCK: Yes, sir. Smokey's message has been the same since 1944 when he first came on board with the fire prevention message of only you can prevent forest fires. It squarely puts the responsibility in the individual who can help prevent fires.</s>SAVIDGE: All right, so then we have Reddy. And Reddy's got a different point of view. Essentially, well, humans can do something, but maybe fires aren't necessarily that bad. I mean, just explain it to you, if you will. How does Reddy work?</s>STAHL: Well, Martin, Reddy believes that homeowners carry the primary responsibility for protecting their homes from forest fires. The fact is forest fires happen. This year, six million acres have burned. 90 percent of forest fires are started by people. You have to wonder whether Smokey has really been very effective if 90 percent of our fires are people caused. And that's been the statistic for decades now. So we need to protect our homes and our communities, but we aren't going to be able to put out all the fires. And we really shouldn't try to put them all out anyway.</s>SAVIDGE: Well, this is a very stark contrast. Now on a serious nature as to how we deal with the wildfire season, as the wildfire problem. What would Smokey say about arson, essentially? And -- or actually more to the point, what would he say about lightning strikes, which account for many of the Western fires?</s>TURCK: Well, you're right. Lightning causes a majority of the fires in some western states as well as some southeastern state.</s>SAVIDGE: And a human couldn't prevent that?</s>TURCK: Absolutely, but as the other gentleman said, nine out of 10 fires are human caused and are part of human negligence. So therefore, they can be prevented. We know we're not going to prevent all the fires all the time, but we can do a good job on preventing a lot of them if we get the message out and raise the level of awareness.</s>SAVIDGE: Fred, I'm wondering if Reddy is a little more urbanized, if he's more eastern located there on the eastern side of the Mississippi, obviously, many of the fires are created by humans. Out west, it seems perhaps nature has a hand. Are we divided here, not necessarily by creature but by say the way the nation is divided?</s>TURCK: Absolutely not. I think the fire causes our run east to west. Now we do have more problems with lightning caused fires, but the concept of the homeowners building homes into the urban interface, that's a nationwide concern. It's not just an east or west problem.</s>SAVIDGE: Well, let me ask you this. How serious do you see this divide here between the two of you and your stands? And Fred, why don't you take that?</s>TURCK: OK. I really don't -- the biggest concern that we have and that Smokey has is with Reddy's message that wildfires cannot be prevented. We take exception to that. It's been proven over and over when we bring fire prevention and education teams into areas that the wildfire causes drop down significantly. The ultimate message that a homeowner needs to take responsibility and prepare themselves, should a fire approach them, is universal. And Smokey can accept that message there.</s>SAVIDGE: Well, Andy, let me ask you this. What about the idea that we as a people are moving and more into the terrain that was nature's world. And that's part of the problem here, how we are interfacing with nature. We want our homes out in these beautiful forests and that. And yet, we are part of the problem here. How does a homeowner not overstep the bounds?</s>STAHL: Well, a homeowner has to realize that they are living in a fire plain, just like in flood plain, or just like where we have tornadoes. And they have to build their home accordingly. They have to make sure that they're roof is made out of metal. They have to make sure to thin the trees within 200 feet of their home. Not have brush and dry grass growing up right next to their house. Keep the wood pile away from the home. Don't put the propane tank right on the front porch. These are very simple steps a homeowner can take, so that we don't have to be afraid of fire, as Smokey wants us. We can learn to live with fire and to manage fire. It's an essential part of our environment, no less important than rain and wind and sun.</s>SAVIDGE: Well, let me ask you another serious point. Smokey the bear has been out there for so long. And the message has been driven in to so many people. What chance does a squirrel have at changing that approach?</s>STAHL: Well first of all, Reddy squirrel has girl power. She's going to get her message across to homeowners. They see it on the news. Every night during fire season, homes being torched up by forest fires, six million acres burning this year. People are going to get the message that first of all, we can't stop all those forest fires. We never have, we never will.</s>SAVIDGE: Fred, it's -- oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.</s>STAHL: So if we're going to live in the forest, we have to live responsibly in the forest.</s>SAVIDGE: And does that mean that Smokey is going to hang up his</s>STAHL: I don't think so. I think Smokey still has a role to teach us not to play with matches. But let's face it, we learn that kindergarten. Learning how to build a house, learning how to live with fire as a natural part in their environment, that's a more sophisticated message than Smokey can handle.</s>SAVIDGE: Fred, do you agree with that?</s>TURCK: Well, Smokey's message, and the reason Smokey has been around for such a long time is his message has been very singular. And that is only you can prevent forest fires. And Smokey does not disagree that homeowners need to take responsibility. And the whole fire wise concept is out there, but Smokey's not a spokesperson for the fire wise concept. He understands it and he supports it. But he also truly believes that a majority of fires can be prevented, since a majority of fires are caused by humans. We just need to change their habits.</s>SAVIDGE: All right, we're going to leave it there. I want to say thanks to Fred Turck and also to Andy Stahl, representing the squirrel and the bear, Smokey the Bear. And Reddy, thank you very much for talking on a serious subject of wildfires.</s>STAHL: Thank you, sir. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com