Will the Catholic Church Look to Modernize?
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. Now you don't have to be Catholic to care about who the next pope will be. The guessing game and the betting is on in earnest since Pope Benedict XVI announced yesterday that he'll step down at the end of this month, the first pope to do so voluntarily since 1294. And my next guest, Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana, is near the top of many lists. Pope Benedict was long seen to be visibly tiring and today we learn that he's had a pacemaker and underwent surgery to replace the battery just a few months ago. Meantime, the Catholic Church is at a crossroads. Many amongst its flock of more than 1 billion people wanted to address life and faith concerns of the modern world, on issues that range from admitting women as priests to gay marriage, not to mention, of course, zero tolerance and full accountability for the crimes of the rolling priest sexual abuse scandal. Joining me now from Rome, a possible papal contender, Ghanaian Cardinal Peter Turkson. Cardinal, thank you for joining me. I know you're laughing and smiling and I'm sure you're too modest. But do you think that it is possible that maybe it could be you?</s>CARDINAL PETER TURKSON OF GHANA: I mean, you know, it's possible for any bishop or any ordained minister in the Catholic Church, you know, to become a cardinal, to become a pope for that matter. And the group of cardinals who would gather in conclave, you know, would all go in there, recognizing that any of them can be chosen as a pope.</s>AMANPOUR: So let me ask you this --</s>TURKSON: So this is -- this is -- yes?</s>AMANPOUR: Go ahead.</s>TURKSON: Go ahead.</s>AMANPOUR: OK. Let --</s>AMANPOUR: Let me ask you, these are the perils of live television. In any event, it's great to have you from Rome. And I want to ask you many people are wondering whether, for the first time, the next pope will be from out of Europe, or at least for the first time in a long, long time, from outside of Europe. And they particularly point to Africa and even Asia, where the Catholic Church is growing the fastest. Do you think it's time for a new face, a younger face?</s>TURKSON: It is. It is certainly possible to have a cardinal come from a certain part of the globe, from Latin America, from Africa or from Asia. I mean, in several places -- Latin America is (inaudible) well over 500 to 700 years. In several places in Africa and Asia, we've had a (inaudible) celebrate 58 (ph) anniversaries and centenaries. So we begin to see from all of this in our young churches mature prelates, mature churchmen, who are capable of exercising leadership in their church. So the possibility that a candidate or any of the guys (ph), any of the cardinals to be elected pope can come from the certain parts of (inaudible) is very real.</s>AMANPOUR: All right.</s>TURKSON: I mean, it may not -- yes.</s>AMANPOUR: Not just the age or the place, now, but as I said, a lot of Catholics are looking for a more modern, you know, a more modern faith to satisfy the needs and requirements of today's modern world. What do you think? I mean, should the next pope have a different view on a woman's contribution at the very top levels? Shouldn't there be women priests? What about gay marriage, which is sweeping certainly the United States and parts of Europe, even amongst practicing Catholics and Catholic political leaders?</s>TURKSON: Yes, I know all of that. I mean, so then, you know, I'll go one step further and probably interpret or understand your reference to modernity or modern priests as, you know, other as all of these manifestations. You know, (inaudible) that either it's a conclave and the cardinals go in there, and everything about what we are talking about now is about the leadership of a church, of a faith community. A church is a church because it's basically a faith community. And the faith continues to guide the life of the church, how it lives, what it believes and how it present, you know, practices its (inaudible) society. Therefore, we have (inaudible) over here to consider. We need to be true and faithful to the faith which made the church a church. And we need to be true to being relevant in society and fulfillment of the mission of a church. So we have these two, as it were, coordinates to, you know, to, you know, trace our trajectory true. We may not sacrifice one for the other. So while the church, yes, seeks to be relevant to society, responding to the various needs of humankind, variants in our lifestyles and all, we also need all the time to have a mind on, you know, what it is that a church believes or what a church consider its their posit of faith.</s>AMANPOUR: All right.</s>TURKSON: We may not, you know, we may not (inaudible). We may not sacrifice (inaudible).</s>TURKSON: We may not sacrifice (inaudible) truth, otherwise, you know, we cease to be a church. I mean, if we need to be any group of -- yes.</s>AMANPOUR: No, no, I hear you loud and clear.</s>TURKSON: We're not just any group of (inaudible) society. (Inaudible).</s>AMANPOUR: Of course, you're not. But as we all know, much of the gospel, much of what has been written in all faiths were written and handed down, you know, hundreds of years after the fact on Earth. And what I want to know from you --</s>TURKSON: (Inaudible).</s>AMANPOUR: -- talking to me now in the modern world is how can you justify the pleas, really, of faithful Catholic nuns, who simply are being driven out of the church by one reason or another, and many of them, particularly here in the West, in the United States, in Europe, say why on Earth would the top levels of the priesthood be banned to women? On what possible ground in 2013 can that be justifiable by doctrine, by morality, by ethics, by faith, in any form or fashion?</s>TURKSON: OK, you know, I will not dispute, you know, the -- and I'll essentially make that hand writ (ph) and (inaudible) probably (inaudible) driven out of a church because over the issue of leadership or over the issue of exercise (ph) of, you know, ordination, ordained roles and powers within the church. But you know, I think -- I think, you know, in all fairness, you know, this is not -- I mean, if one does not have a chance (ph) to ordination, it's not that discriminate -- it's not any, you know, verdict on one's own nature or one's own character or one's, for that matter, one's own sex or gender. That's not the issue, I don't think. It is -- it is, you know, the various posts in consonas (ph) and infidelity (ph) with the deposit (ph) of faith have found all this. And John II, John Paul II, you know, studied this issue and, you know, believed that it will be -- you know, it will be truer to the deposit (ph) of faith to affirm their reservation of, you know, priest ordination to men.</s>AMANPOUR: Well --</s>TURKSON: I mean, if at any point in history, this was going to -- this is going to come up again, I this it's not a denial of rights or anything to anybody. It is just how the church has understood this order of ministry to be.</s>AMANPOUR: As we know, those kinds of understandings can be eminently changeable. And I think you will probably continue to see these women and these nuns challenge the Vatican on these issues. But can I also ask you, on an equally serious subject, you know, in 2002, as you know very well, the priest sexual abuse scandal rocked the United States. Under Pope Benedict XVI, in 2010, it swept through Europe. Are you concerned that it could sweep and emerge through Africa and do you believe that the church has sufficiently held the guilty accountable?</s>TURKSON: I (inaudible) do I believe that it can sweep through Africa? Unfortunately, not in the same proportion that I mentioned, as we've seen this in Europe, pobably because, in a way, Africa, you know, African traditional systems kind of protect or have protected its, you know, its population against this tendency (inaudible), because in several communities and several (inaudible) in Africa, almost (inaudible), or for that matter, any, you know, any effort between two sexes of the same kind are not -- are not anything -- you know, they are not countenanced in society. So that quarter, if you want a taboo, that tradition has been there. Except to keep this out. But here, the concern is there, and I think it has really impaired, if you want a credibility of the church of its ministers and pastors, and that is one big area that we still need to work on. We need to work on, you know, on healing and restoration of credibility to our ministers and pastors. And that would probably also mean that we do not only work on restoring credibility, but we also need to work on our houses of formation (ph) so that we do not have (inaudible) come out of our houses of omission (ph) any more. So there is -- there is a lot of work to do in that regard.</s>AMANPOUR: Cardinal --</s>TURKSON: What other victims are being sufficiently taken care of here, I mean, I don't have statistics now, but I know that in all Episcopal (ph) conferences, there are measures, you know, you know, set in place to deal with the victims of abuse and make sure that, you know, they're well taken care of in society.</s>AMANPOUR: Cardinal Turkson, so much more to talk about. Thank you for joining me, and we'll be watching the conclave. All the best.</s>TURKSON: Thanks.</s>AMANPOUR: And we'll be right back after a break.