Democrats Threaten Legal Action Against U.S. Attorney General; Nadler Threatens to Hold Barr in Contempt of Congress; House Panel Faced Empty Chair; Justice Department Defies Subpoena to Release Redacted Mueller Report to Congress; Maduro Seeks to Display Military Loyalty; Guaido Urges Government Workers to Strike; Russia Continues to Support Maduro
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. The U.S. Attorney General is accused of committing a crime when he testified before Congress. That as he failed to show up to testify today. Also, this. A crystal-clear message from Nicholas Maduro. Venezuela's military is loyal, the uprising has failed. We are live in Caracas. In India, thousands are being evacuated from their homes ahead of what's expected to be the strongest cyclone to hit the country in 50 years. An empty chair said all this morning. Furious Democrats on Capitol Hill are threatening legal action against Attorney General William Barr, saying he's attempting on multiple fronts to subvert the rule of law. Bar was supposed to testify in the House about the Mueller like he did yesterday in the Senate, he did not show up because of objections over the format. His Justice Department also ignored a subpoena to give Congress the full unredacted Mueller report, leaving Democrats to threaten to hold him in contempt. Calls are growing for him to resign after his testimony yesterday. Listen to the most powerful House Democrat Nancy Pelosi.</s>REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): As the Attorney General of the United States was not telling the truth to the Congress of the United States. That's a crime. He lied to Congress. He lied to Congress. And if anybody else did that, it would be considered a crime. Nobody is above the law, not the President of the United States and not the Attorney General.</s>GORANI: Let's get the latest from our Congressional correspondent, Phil Mattingly. Pelosi is saying this is a crime. He lied to Congress. What will the next moves be for House Democrats who are trying to get Barr to testify and trying to get that full unredacted Mueller report. What are they going to do?</s>PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You kind of hit a key point there, you know this is coming on multiple fronts. What you heard from the Speaker is as strong as you can get from a leader talking about a cabinet official who just testified under oath less than 24 hours ago, it also underscores the frustration from Democrats, the frustration that Attorney General Barr did not attend the hearing today. And the reaction that this White House, this administration has said no to every subpoena that they had issued regarding any investigation they've had going on over the last couple months. Six House Democrats took the majority in January. The reality here in terms of next steps is a little complicated, to some degree. You noted that several Democratic Presidential hopefuls have called for resignation. We've heard that from House members as well. The Speaker said she wants to leave this to the Judiciary Committee. What they have is a few options, they can hold the Attorney General in contempt for not showing up, for not complying with the subpoena related to the unredacted report, they can also push forward for impeachment of the Attorney General. That's something Nancy Pelosi said she's not willing to do yet at this point. Democrats are increasingly frustrated, increasingly looking for reasons for the lies. The Speaker's comments were reckless and weren't in character for what the Attorney General said, but what you're seeing is a very real fight, a very real battle between two entities and two institutions that don't look like they're going to get along any time soon. What could happen to the Attorney General, what's actually the next step. Is he ever going to testify? I talked to people who are involved in the committee, they look at it two ways, there are multiple subpoenas, multiple investigations, they did not want to give an inch to the Justice Department. Even if that meant he wasn't going to come up, they were going to be nine with that, the bigger picture is, that Robert Muller himself the Special Counsel will testify in the coming weeks. That more than anything else is what they're focused on.</s>GORANI: Thanks very much. Live on Capitol Hill. Critics say Barr is acting more like President Trump's personal attorney than the Attorney General of the United States. He raised eyebrows several times yesterday, including when he said a President could shut down an investigation into his own conduct if he believes he's being falsely accused. Our legal analyst Elie Honig sums up Barr's testimony in one word, pathetic. In a CNN online column today. Elie, I was asking Phil, whatever options the Democrats have on Capitol Hill, we are talking here about a protracted battle between House of Representatives and the Justice Department, what are the likely outcomes here?</s>ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So really Congress has three options and I think that Phil laid them out. They can issue a contempt of Congress citation which is largely symbolic, it doesn't really mean anything. No one goes behind bars. No pun intended. They can also make a criminal referral for contempt, the problem is that referral goes where? To the United States Department of Justice which Bill Barr the Attorney General is in charge of. So as a practical matter I wouldn't count on that going anywhere. Our they can start a lawsuit in our civil courts. And I think if this comes to a head, that's where it will be. What is the likelihood of it succeeding? Congress has very broad oversight powers, it's one of the fundamental constitutional authorities that we vest in our Congress. Ultimately, I think the courts are going to be quite deferential to that unless it is seen as an excessive or arbitrary or malicious use of that power, when you're talking about 30 minutes worth of questioning by outside attorneys, I don't think the court is going to look at that and say, you're abusing your power.</s>GORANI: Explain to our international viewers, who have been following the coverage of the Mueller report, before it came out the Barr summary, then the redacted Mueller report, finally this Barr testimony. Why is this all significant?</s>HONIG: I think Democrats would tell you that Bill Barr -- and I agree with this, not because of ideology, but I think the criticism of Bill Barr is that he engaged in a PR campaign to frame in a misleading way what the Mueller report found. It's important that people understand, There was almost a month that passed between when Bill Barr issued his 4-page summary letter describing what Mueller had found and when the actual Mueller report came out. In that one-month period, we had a letter from Barr. Barr testified in Congress, and he gave a press conference an hour before it came out. When we saw the Mueller report itself. I think it became quite apparent that Barr had spun things at every turn in Donald Trump's favor, and that complaint. That criticism got extra fuel yesterday when we learned that Robert Mueller had made the same complaint to Bill Barr and we learned yesterday, that just three days after Bill Barr sent out his first letter Mueller sent the letter saying, you misrepresented the context and substance of my findings.</s>GORANI: On April 20th, he was asked do you know if Mueller agrees with your characterization, his reply was, I don't know. And this was several weeks after receiving that letter from Robert Muller saying, I believe you mischaracterized the findings of the report. Nancy Pelosi said, Barr lied to Congress, that's a crime. Does she have a point?</s>HONIG: I agree in part. He lied to Congress under any common sense understanding of the word lie. Sure he did. Is it a crime? Did he leave himself just enough wiggle room and anyone who saw the testimony yesterday, he tried to tap dance and say, well, by conclusions, what do we mean by that. He tried to tap dance around a little. Perjury charges are tough to make, if there's any wiggle room, they're awfully hard to charge, and as a practical matter, if there was to be a perjury charge against the Attorney General, guess who would have to bring that? The United States Department of Justice. One of the U.S. attorneys all of homework under Bill Barr. I would not expect there to be an indictment of Bill Barr. But was this statement a lie? Yes.</s>GORANI: The White House is complaining. We learned this in in the last hour, Mueller didn't make -- didn't come to a conclusion whether or not there was obstruction. So they're complaint, they're saying why leave it to the Justice Department or Congress on whoever else. Do they have a point here? Why did the report leave that question dangling?</s>HONIG: A lot of people have question. Why didn't Robert Mueller give a thumbs up or thumbs down decision on whether the President should be prosecuted for obstruction? But the big thing that's missing from the letter, there is a longstanding DOJ policy against indicting a sitting President. And Robert Mueller makes clear throughout the report that that policy really handcuffs him, and essentially, what he says he does not want to do is announce that the President has committed a crime --</s>GORANI: Why does it handcuff him in terms of coming to a conclusion, and then after the President leaves office? Then whatever -- of course, whatever decision the prosecutors take, so be it, why just leave that dangling, it's open to interpretation to all sides?</s>HONIG: It's a great question. I think I share -- when you read the report, Mueller twists himself into a pretzel trying to get around this policy. The character Yoda from "Star Wars." He's speaking in these strange riddles. We're not saying he committed a crime, but we would tell you if he didn't. And we're not saying he didn't. It's like, why not just say, we finally committed a crime, because he had this policy, can't be indicted now. And Mueller does say this part, he does say, there's no reason a President cannot be indicted after he gets out of office. So that's a legitimate criticism of Mueller and has led to controversy.</s>GORANI: To Venezuela now, as been more than 48 hours since Juan Guaido the opposition leader and the President of the National Assembly announced the attempt to oust Nicholas Maduro's government was entering quote, final phase. Kicking off two days of protests. Here's what Guaido did not want to see. (voice over) Why did Guaido not want to see this? These are members of the Venezuela military send a clear message in an overt show of unity the embattled President is claiming the patriotism of Venezuela's armed forces quote, will never break. And they must combat and I'm talking about Nicholas Maduro saying they must combat what he was calling traitors.</s>NICHOLAS MADURO, PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA (through translator): That is why I say we have to face and cut the betrayal, the coup. We need to step forward. Be active. The order is given. The traitors, stop them. The coup plotters, reject them. And also stop them. The armed forces must be united. Cohesive.</s>GORANI: Let's take you live to the Venezuelan capitol. Paula Newton is there. Minutes ago you run streets of Caracas. Is pretty much back to normal in many parts of the city, right? What's the situation out there?</s>PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Normal, when you say a city still gripped by despair and utter hopelessness in terms of trying to get the basics of every day life. That is true, they are back, worrying about where their next meal comes from. Having said that though, look at these pictures. Quite a comeback from President Maduro there, saying, I can give much better than I get from Guaido. We have not seen him yet today. There are no protests. He has called for a general strike which he was hoping would start tomorrow. The issue is this, when you are confronted with those kinds of pictures. And missed what would've been that even the United States administration claimed was Juan Guaido getting the backing from the highest echelons of the military. That hasn't happened. In more than that. You have Vladimir Padrino Lopez, the Defense Minister actually opening admitting in a speech that he was propositioned in some way. But said that somehow the offer wasn't good enough, not sure what he meant by that, but it is with intrigue really that this country and certainly other countries are involved, U.S. and Russia are looking on to a President Maduro that seems emboldened, there's no other way to put it. Again, Juan Guaido not seen today and really still with Leopoldo Lopez, the opposition leader standing next to him during that failed uprising is holed up in the Spanish Ambassador's residence seeking refuge.</s>GORANI: It is certainly not the scene that Guaido wanted to see. Thanks very much. Let's take a look at what's gone over in the last 48 hours. Dan Restrepo is a former national security council director of Western Hemisphere affairs. And is now a senior fellow for the center for American progress. A mouthful there. Thanks for joining us. He is in Washington. Basically, is this a misfire?</s>DAN RESTREPO, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL DIRECTOR OF WESTERN HEMISPHERE AFFAIRS: It's quite unclear what happened. You have the Venezuelan opposition and the Trump administration saying there were negotiations at the highest levels of the Maduro regime, the head of the military, the head of the Supreme Court, Presidential Guard, there's a big question as to whether those were good faith negotiations and those guys weren't capable of pulling this off. Which would be decidedly bad news. Or if there were bad faith negotiations and the opposition any Trump administration got played. Obviously, this week wasn't gone the way Guaido hoped it would have gone. But we have a tendency to get too high when it looks like things are going to change and too low when they don't.</s>GORANI: Before I ask you what happens to Guaido now, for a takeover to happen, or an overthrow or what the supporters would call essentially a legitimate transfer of power, you need the support of a military in a country like Venezuela?</s>RESTREPO: Yes. The support of the military is the essential element. A lot of time we think of this wrong way. We think of this as Nicholas Maduro that is the central piece of the regime. Military is the central piece of this regime. And whether the military wants to back Maduro or Guaido. That's the fundamental question. Until they decide that they want to back Guaido, that their interests are better aligned with Guaido than Nicholas Maduro. We're going to get the status quo we've had over the last several months.</s>GORANI: As far as the Maduro regime is concerned, here's a man who tried to mount a coup and overthrow the President. They have to play it carefully. If they jail him, he's seen as a martyr. What's going to happen next? We lost Dan. But that's OK because I have with me John Defterios. We'll try to reconnect with him in a moment. John, what's important to underline, the fact that it's not just the United States, it's countries like Russia and China that have interest in Venezuela? Specifically Russia has invested in terms of the gas and energy sector in Venezuela. They're interested in keeping Maduro in place.</s>JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN MONEY EMERGENT MARKETS EDITOR: Both Russia and China for that matter. It's been the better part of a decade they've been involved. And to the tune of $70 billion, about $20 billion has come from Russia into Venezuela over the last five years. It owns nearly 50 percent of Citgo which is a name known in the United States as petrol station owners. It is a big refiner as well. Senior sources in Russia have told me in the past, the CEO of Rosneft that got the ear of Vladimir Putin and said, it's good to be in the sphere of influence of the United States with the flag planted in Venezuela. They doubled down, they wanted to get this swap for the heavy oil Venezuela holds. By the way Venezuela sits on 300 billion barrels of oil, even more than Saudi Arabia. It is huge.</s>GORANI: Extremely rich country that is in a dire economic situation. Is Russia now more involved? I mean, did they invest in Venezuela and that's why they want Maduro to stay? Or is it because they wanted to Maduro to stay, so they invested in Venezuela.</s>DEFTERIOS: This goes back to the days of Chavez and Maduro. It's almost like quick sand. One was suggesting Chavez had rule of the country. Maduro is not a great manager, they're in deep and they'll have to stay there. Economically is very important to point out as well. This is an economic crisis like we've never seen before. You think of Zimbabwe or Iran or Sudan. Venezuela is in a league of its own. We had a million percent inflation in 2018. IMF is suggesting a target I have never seen in my 30 years of covering economics. 14 million percent. The collapse in the oil production, something I've never seen before. You go back to 2009, it was 3 million barrels a day.</s>GORANI: We have a graphic, by the way.</s>DEFTERIOS: Look at the numbers here, the oil market was shocked when it came out in March of 2019, just two months ago. 732,000 barrels a day. The reason is, the United States put on additional sanctions at the end of January, on the state oil company, squeezed it of capital and it cannot reinvest. They defaulted on the bonds they had in the United States and left a number of investors vulnerable as well. Economically, Maduro is doing a horrible job. Russia put this money at stake. Preceded by China. They're kind of looking now, are we going to get our money back. And then there was a conversation yesterday between Foreign Minister Lavrov of Russia and Mike Pompeo, the Secretary of State. And lower right came out today suggesting, it's amazing, we were told by the United States, stay out of Venezuela, while the United States is getting involved. I don't see either party right now, and plus China backing off. It was so much money at stake.</s>GORANI: You mentioned China, what's China that doing in Venezuela?</s>DEFTERIOS: China's been quiet during this dispute. But China has needed the energy because of this expanding economy, and decided 10 years ago, over a series of years, to put $50 billion at play. They're a major player, have you both China and Russia planting flags there, and you have the United States as a spoiler backing Juan Guaido. Guaido is succeeding right now. That's why I don't think Russia is going to be so easy to pick up its sticks and leave and say I lost $20 billion in the last five years.</s>GORANI: China is interesting. They are really investing all over the world, Africa as well. Very interesting to see them also enter Venezuela. Thanks John. More questions for Rick Singer. Parents whose daughter got admitted to Stanford paid him over $6 million.