Turkey Raises Flag in Syrian Kurdish City
ANDERSON: Announcing a major win with a nod to the past. Turkish soldiers hold their national flag dedicating their victory in the fight against Kurdish forces to the victims of the battle of Gallipoli in World War I. And the site of this Turkish win, a battered and bloodied Syria. Where for the past seven years major world powers jostled for power, territory and influence to devastating effects. And we have followed it all the way for you. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Welcome back, 7:30 in the UAE. If victory is about strategy, victory parties are all about symbolism, it seems. It doesn't get clearer than this. A bullet poked statue of a Kurdish hero, torn down and left line headfirst in the dirt. Just 24 hours after Turkish back forces rolled into the center of town. We bring you Ibrahim Kalin, a spokesman for the Turkish presidency and he joins me now from Ankara. Mr. Kalin, this win in Afrin is something Turkey will want to celebrate. How do you respond to critics like the EU's top diplomat who said today that she was, quote, worried about it? Saying international efforts in Syria should be about de-escalation, not escalation.</s>IBRAHIM, KALIN SPOKESMAN FOR TURKISH PRESIDENT: Well, we have conducted this operation basically to clear the Afrin area from PYD, YPG terrorist. Who are PKK Syria branch and the PKK is listed as a terrorist objection in Turkey, the EU and the United States. So those who are sincere and consistent about the fight against terrorism should be supporting Turkey in its effort to clear its borders from this terrorist elements. In regard to some concerns or issues raised when we began the operation about avoiding civilian casualties, et cetera, we've been very careful with that. I think our record is very clear as we did with the Euphrates shield operation about a year and half ago. We have cleared about 2,000 square kilometer area from dire terrorists. And we did the same in Afrin and have avoided civilian casualties. Especially if you compare civilian casualties in the operations in Mosul, Raqqah and other places. And you look at the pictures before and after the liberation of the cities, I think our record is very clear. And we've been very transparent from the very beginning about the aims of this operation.</s>ANDERSON: There were very few civilians indeed when these troops rolled in. We've been talking to people that were on the ground. An awful lot of looting for example. The U.N. Human Rights Council said it had received reports of opposition fighters looting the homes and businesses of people who have fled. CNN spoke to the photographer who took photos of this. He said he saw at least hundreds of opposition forces looting in the city center, taking everything in his words, even pigeons. This clearly is not a few bad apples according to witness accounts like his. What's your understanding of the situation on the ground?</s>KALIN: Well, we take these reports seriously. We are looking into the incidents. Apparently, they have happened. Some groups probably did not follow the orders that were given by their commanders. We are looking into this very seriously because our main aim in the Afrin operation is and has been from the very beginning to bring safety and security to those people living in Afrin. We have never forced anyone to leave the city. In fact, it was YPG/PYD terrorists that were blocking people from leaving the city because they wanted to use them as live human shields. That has now been avoided because the terrorists fled, the PYD/YPG terrorist. In the meantime, in the areas that were cleared from PYD/YP, we've been providing humanitarian aid through the Turkish Red Crescent. And we have also provided other type of humanitarian aid in other parts of Afrin towards both Aleppo and towards Hassakeh. So that work will continue. But we are looking into those incidents very closely and necessary measures obviously will be taken.</s>ANDERSON: There's been much talk of giving Afrin back to its, quote, real owners. It's a Kurdish city, isn't it? How are you going to reassure hundreds of thousands of civilians they can go back home when they and we witnessed these such things.</s>KALIN: Well, first of all, we have to make a very clear distinction between PYD/YPG terrorists and the Kurds. We don't have anything against the Kurds. In fact, we have supported the Kurds in Syria, in Iraq and elsewhere. In fact, it was our president who raised the issue of Kurdish rights long before the Syrian were. Long before anybody even talked about Syrian Kurds with Chobani. Other places when we had good relations with President Bashar al-Assad. I see a lot of commentary, especially in the Western media mixing up PYD/YPG and the Kurds. It's like saying almost Muslims are Daesh. You know, you make a very clear distinction between ISIS and the majority of Muslims. You have to make the same distinction between PYD/YPG, PKK and the Kurds. As far as the people in Afrin are concerned, many had to flee because of the oppression that they were under of the PYD/YPG. I'll give you an example. When we liberated Jarabulus, Azaz area to the Euphrates shield operation, 140,000 people returned to their homes. This never happened anywhere else in Syria during the seven-year war. Because they felt safe and, in those cities, now, they're running their own businesses. There is no ISIS there, and there is no PYD/PKK. And there are no regime forces there. So, we would like to see the same happening there. In fact, it's happening already near the Turkish border. And you will see in the following days the same thing will happen in the Afrin city. Those who had to flee will go back and we will provide safety for them.</s>ANDERSON: OK. All right. Well, we've heard what you said, even though we hear witness accounts from Kurds who fear ethnic cleansing going forward. Look, we are seeing, it seems, an emboldening Turkey in the --</s>KALIN: Ethnic cleansing, who has done ethnic cleansing? That's an outrageous claim.</s>ANDERSON: I'm saying you hear reports from Kurds on the ground that they fear ethnic cleansing to which you say what?</s>KALIN: Well, to the contrary. In fact, there are Kurds fighting within the FSA, Free Syrian Army, that entered the city of Afrin. There are many Kurds. That's the problem. Unfortunately for some commentators in the Western media, any Kurd who is not a PKK is not a Kurd. They write about the PYD/YPG as if they are the only or sole representatives of the Kurds. That's not true at all. In fact, there are hundreds of, hundreds of thousands of Kurds who do not subscribe to PKK's Marxist-Leninist ideologies. One of the ironies of modern history that the United States, unfortunately, has chosen a Marxist-Leninist organization as its ally in Syria. They made proposals in the past both to the Obama and to Trump administration, that in fact, the fight against ISIS can be done with other forces including non-PKK Kurds, Arabs, Turk, and many other Syrians.</s>ANDERSON: Let me ask you, it does to many seem as if we are seeing an emboldened Turkey in the region. What is the plan at this point? Will you push towards Manbij?</s>KALIN: We have reached an agreement with U.S. officials over the last three, four weeks we had a very intense diplomatic traffic with Secretary Tillerson coming, even though he is now on the way out, General McMaster, President Trump's national security adviser. In our briefings we have agreed on a main framework for the Manbij area to be evacuated so that the PYD/YPG elements will move to the east of Euphrates. This is something that again we discussed with the Obama administration two and a half years ago. We've been discussing with our counterparts and because Manbij in a Kurdish city. It's primarily largely an Arab city. Maybe it had some significance tactically speaking for the Raqqa operation. But the Raqqa operation is over and Daesh or ISIS has been largely eliminated in those area. So, there is no reason for them to stay there. Because they pose -- they're only 30 kilometers away, by the way, from the Turkish border. And they're using all these areas as training grounds as they did in Afrin. If you look at the pictures, all the small military headquarters and weapons caches, et cetera. In fact, they were trying to turn Afrin into a second counter mountain where they train their terrorists. Obviously, we cannot allow that to happen right at our border. And so, we have asked the U.S. officials to move the PYD/YPG out of Manbij to the east of Euphrates. So that those areas can be secured by, again, the local people. We can do it together with the U.S. FSA can do it, or other local people can do it in the city.</s>ANDERSON: OK, I hear what you're saying. Let me put this to you finally. There is a school of thought that sees Russia as to a certain extent allowing Turkey to win in Afrin as a way of bringing Ankara in Washington into conflict. I want to get your analysis of that and how far Turkey is willing to strain ties with Washington, with the U.S. over your desire to stamp out this, as you call it, Kurdish terrorism.</s>KALIN: Well, there are two sides to your question. I think one is that when we conduct this operation, Afrin operation, obviously we coordinated with Russia, with Iran but also with the Americans because, you know, we have conducted air operation there, our soldiers were on the ground. You have to coordinate these things obviously, so that you avoid any accidents or clashes. Number two, we have also coordinated our Euphrates shield operation with international coalition primarily with the United States. So, when you do these things you have to coordinate. So, coordination with Russia doesn't mean you turn your back to your other allies. We don't see foreign policy as a zero-sum game. To the contrary, as we have worked closely with the international coalition, during the Euphrates shield operation, we work with the Russians in the Afrin operation because the Americans are not in that part of Syria. The larger question about Turkish/U.S. relations and Turkish/Russia relations, they are not alternative to one another. But we have two main issues with the U.S. at the moment. One is the U.S. support for PYD/YPG again I repeat which is PKK Syria branch. This is a terrorist organization that has been conducting this war against Turkey for the last 34 years. Obviously, we cannot understand how our ally, our strategic partner, the United States can work with a terrorist group like that. Number two is the Gulenist network in the U.S., those who are responsible for the July 15 coupe attempt in 2016 here in Turkey and we have raised all these issues, these two issues primarily to address as spoilers in our relationship. We want to improve relations obviously, but we would like to see some concrete action to address our security concerns. As far as our relationship with Russia or with Iran or with other regional countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, EU, et cetera, we don't see this as a zero-sum game. It's a 360-degree foreign policy perspective that we are trying to apply.</s>ANDERSON: And we will continue to discuss this in the days, weeks and months to come. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Viewers, we will right back after this.