Zuckerberg and Musk Trade A.I.  Barbs
QUEST: Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. Two billionaires, locked in a feud. And the answer of course is -- all about artificial intelligence. They're squabbling about artificial intelligence. And exactly what it means. And its likely effect. It all began when Mark Zuckerberg said this.</s>MARK ZUCKERBERG, FOUNDER & CEO, FACEBOOK: I'm really optimistic. I'm an optimistic person in general. I think you can build things and the world gets better. But with A.I. especially, I'm really optimistic. I think people who are naysayers and try to drop these doomsday scenarios, are, I don't understand it I think it's really negative and in some ways, I actually think it's pretty irresponsible. (</s>QUEST: Irresponsible, Elon Musk? Laid a charge at Zuckerberg saying, I've spoken to Mark about this his understanding of the subject is limited. Ouch, that stinging rebuke. Joining me is professor of physics and host of "Sci-Fi Science" on the science channel. Good to see you, sir.</s>MICHIO KAKU, HOST, "SCI-FI SCIENCE", SCIENCE CHANNEL: Good to be on.</s>QUEST: Whom do you support, Musk with his doomsday scenario or Zuckerberg with his irresponsible?</s>KAKU: To understand this, you have to understand love and war. The key to love and war is timing. Timing is everything. So, in the short-term, I think Mark Zuckerberg is right. On a scale of 20, 30 years, I mean give me a break. Robots have the intelligence of a cockroach. However, in the long-term as decades roll by, then the words of Elon Musk become more and more prophetic. When the airplane was first invented, it was used for good to deliver mail, deliver passengers, but then war took place, people began to develop airplanes that could drop bombs.</s>QUEST: Now in which case Musk is probably right. Because he is prophetically looking toward the long-term dangers are. While Zuckerberg maybe with the youth of millennialism is just thinking about tomorrow?</s>KAKU: Well, however you're an entrepreneur, you want to become the next billionaire, because you want to follow Zuckerberg, that's where the action is going to be. In the next few decades we are talking about the A.I. industry is going to be bigger than the automobile industry today. Think about that. There's an army of billionaires waiting to be minted if you follow the work of Zuckerberg. However, in the long-term as the decades roll by, we've to realize that Elon Musk is prophetic. We have to worry about these things.</s>QUEST: Even though there's no co consensus and it would be very difficult to get an agreement at international levels, should we now be starting to look for agreement on a proper regulation of A.I.?</s>KAKU: There's no harm trying. The key turning point in the whole controversy is the question of self-awareness. Robots today do not know they're robots. That's the bottom line. They have no self-awareness whatsoever. However, in the coming decades, you can foresee the time when robots become the smart as a mouse, a rabbit, a dog or a cat. And perhaps by the end of the century, as smart as a monkey. At that point, they will have limited self-awareness, they'll be super strong and at that point, watch out. But we have time. We have several decades to go. And like I said, billionaires are waiting to be minted. Waiting in the wings. To take, to take artificial intelligence to the marketplace.</s>QUEST: OK. But looking at that argument, I can't help -- if the killing robots idea, the drone robot, the robot you send out into the field and will kill anything in its sights.</s>KAKU: Automatic killing machines. That's a danger today. But they're not self-aware. Now automatic killing machines can recognize the human form. And if they go berserk, they are just killing machines that will kill humans.</s>QUEST: Should we ban them?</s>KAKU: I think there should be regulations, treaties, Stephen Hawking, my colleagues have argued against automatic killing machines that are out of control but they're not self-aware. They're not like Arnold Schwarzenegger who plots and schemes and connives trying to take over humanity. That's the turning point. We do not have robots who are self-aware.</s>QUEST: Musk, I hear what you say in terms of who's right now and who's right long-term but I'm left with the feeling of who should I be listening to?</s>KAKU: If you're an entrepreneur, listen to Zuckerberg. That's where the money is. If you're a long-term philosopher, worrying about the fate of humanity, then of course Elon Musk is on to something. Just like the airplane, the bow and arrow, the hammer, all of these inventions were invented for domestic and good purposes. Later we found out we could use airplanes and bows and arrows for war as well as for good.</s>QUEST: There's an inevitability that we will use these thing for evil deeds.</s>KAKU: Unfortunately, every weapon that has ever been invented has been used in warfare. And so Yes, we have to worry about that long-term. Elon Musk is on to something.</s>QUEST: Good to see you, sir. Thank you, professor, very good of you to come in.</s>KAKU: Thank you.</s>QUEST: Let's stay with billionaires, the Amazon chief executive Jeff Bezos has been the target of President Trump on Twitter. Today he attacked again. Is fake news "The Washington Post," which Bezos personally owns been used as a lobbying weapon against congress to keep politicians from looking into Amazon no-tax monopoly? CNN Money's Dylan Byers is in Los Angeles. The two men obviously know each other. What's behind this, this ad hominin attacks that the president is doing against Jeff Bezos?</s>DYLAN BYERS, CNN MONEY SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Well, look, first of all let me just say that in terms of accusing "The Washington Post" of fake news, there's a litany of things that are fake in the three tweets that President Trump put out against "The Washington Post." and against Jeff Bezos. First of all, the notion that Jeff Bezos has anything to do with "The Washington Post" reporting specifically on this report regarding Trump's Syria strategy, he has nothing to do with that. There's nothing fake in that report. That report turns out to be 100 percent accurate. On top of that, the suggestion that Amazon is pushing some sort of no-tax monopoly is just wrong. In fact, Amazon pays taxes, it collects sales taxes as it has done for several years. So, it's very hard to sort of read those tweets and find out where, you know, the fake news is in those tweets. It's not in "The Washington Post." as for what's -- yes?</s>QUEST: Dylan, what's -- I've been asking a lot of people who say what's the point of it all? I mean, is this idea you know, if you attack eventually people will believe?</s>BYERS: No. In fact, just the opposite, Richard. I think what's happening here is the more and more you attack, the more you make these sort of empty threats, the less that the tech community at least is going to pay attention to what the president is saying. He goes after Amazon and Jeff Bezos, he goes after other tech leaders suggesting there are going to be some sort of ramifications for their business practices. None of this ever pans out. And in fact, Dick Costello, the head of Twitter said today, at a certain point, business leaders are going to stop listening to the president of the United States, if he just starts throwing these grenades everywhere that bear no consequences whatsoever for the tech leaders he's attacking. So, no, I don't understand the strategy. I don't understand what the move is beyond trying to discredit "The Washington Post" report and convince his core supporters, which are really only about 30 to 35 percent of the American people, that they can't trust "The Washington Post." Other than that, I don't see an end game here.</s>QUEST: Dylan, good to see you, sir.</s>BYERS: Thank you.</s>QUEST: The voice behind the famous Muppet has a frog in his throat. Richard Kermit has been fired after three decades in the job.