Is the Press Secretly Rooting for Trump's Impeachment?; Is the Country as Divided as the Media Suggests?; Interview with Sen. Amy Klobuchar About the Media and Congress
BRIAN STELTER, CNN HOST: Hey, I'm Brian Stelter. Happy Father's Day, and welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is RELIABLE SOURCES, our weekly look at the story behind the story, of how the media really works and how the news gets made. We're asking big questions today about a divided nation, only briefly united in the aftermath of the shooting at congressional baseball practice. In an era of extreme rhetoric, should media figures be doing some soul-searching? Plus, were some senators this week trying to restrict press access in the Capitol? I'll ask Senator Amy Klobuchar. And later in the hour, two big interviews raising questions about responsible interviewing. Oliver Stone joins me to discuss his sit- downs with Vladimir Putin and we'll break down the controversy surrounding Megyn Kelly's interview with Alex Jones. But, first, watching the news, reading the web, leaves me with so many more questions than answers. Is "The Washington Post" right? Is President Trump really under investigation for possible obstruction? What's Robert Mueller finding? Who's he hiring? Is he being fair? Is Trump thinking about firing Mueller? What would happen after that? Why did the president tweet, I am being investigated? Is lawyer Jay Sekulow telling the truth, saying Trump was just reacting to news coverage? And if so, why is Trump deriding fake news if he believes the news? More importantly, who should you believe? Is it true that the president is yelling at TV sets in the White House? Why is he still watching so much TV anyway? Isn't he busy? And where are the tapes? Wait, are there tapes? Why hasn't he cleared that up? What is the president hiding? Why are White House briefings getting shorter and more limited? Why hasn't Trump given any interviews for five weeks? Why aren't his aides all over TV defending him? Are you as confused as I am? The news cycle can be bewildering but I think it's useful sometimes to watch what the president is watching. We know he loves Sean Hannity's show on FOX News. He even retweeted a promo of the show on Friday. And Hannity's message night after night is that the media, the American media is trying to overthrow the president.</s>SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: The media has become completely unhinged. They're suffering from Trump derangement syndrome. The truth does not matter to people that call themselves journalists. They want President Trump to fail and they want him out. They want him gone. They want him out of office. They want him impeached. They hate FOX News. They hate talk radio. As a matter of fact, they hate any conservative who supports this president and supports his policies. And that's why I call it media fascism.</s>STELTER: Is Sean Hannity right? Is the press secretly rooting for impeachment proceedings against President Trump? Let's talk about it. Joining me now, Matt Schlapp, chairman of the American Conservative Union, and a proud father of five. Matt, happy Father's Day.</s>MATT SCHLAPP, CHAIRMAN, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION: Same to you, Brian.</s>STELTER: Thanks. I'm going to need some advice from you for raising girls. I'm also joined --</s>SCHLAPP: Let me tell you, I've got five girls, and today I have two dance recitals. So I'm hoping I slip in a beer at some point during the day.</s>STELTER: Well, this segment is going to be easy compared to all that. Let me bring in two more guests with you in Washington, Kaitlin Collins who was up until this week a White House correspondent for "The Daily Caller". As of tomorrow, she'll be covering the White House for us here at CNN. Congrats, Kaitlin. And also with us, Alex Conant, former communications director for Senator Marco Rubio, and partner at Firehouse Strategies. So, I've got all of you with me here to discuss this issue. Matt, to you first. Do you perceive that journalists, reporters, commentators, are trying to get this president impeached?</s>SCHLAPP: Well, I was on Sean's show on Friday. I think there's real truth to what he says. Look, I think when we say words or terms like "the media," obviously, media is very diverse. I think it's very fair to say that the overwhelming percentage of people who are reporters in this country tend to contribute to liberal causes and vote for liberal candidates. I think that's undisputed. I think there's a lot of kind of post-election malaise by reporters who felt like they gave Donald Trump a free pass during the primaries and they're trying to overcompensate for this coverage. And I think it is further dividing them from the viewers, even though everyone's numbers are up all over the dial, because so many people are engaged to listening about politics because of all of this tumult in the Trump presidency. But there's no question that there is a massive bias that Trump faces every day.</s>STELTER: Kaitlin, what do you perceive at the White House among your fellow reporters. Are journalists thinking they're going to see an impeachment?</s>KAITLIN COLLINS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE DAILY CALLER: I think hoping for an impeachment and watching for an impeachment are two very different things. I think reporters have scrutinized the president's actions, the way he fired James Comey, the fact that he said it was because of the Russia investigation. The fact that James Comey said he asked him to shut down the investigation into Mike Flynn. So, think reporters are watching the president's actions and reporting on what he's doing, but I don't think anyone is secretly rooting for the president of the United States to be impeached. I don't see why it's being turned around on reporters. This is an investigation that has gone on nearly a year now and was about Russian interference in the election, but because of the president's actions, he's made this about himself.</s>STELTER: Journalists are focused on these investigations. What you hear from commentators on the right is that journalists are too obsessed with these Russia issues, Alex. Is there truth to that? Is there a point there?</s>ALEX CONANT, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR SEN. MARCO RUBIO: Well, I actually agree with what both Matt and Kaitlan said. Look, to Matt's point, there is no doubt that there is a liberal bias in much of American media. Most reporters are left of center. But I think there's an even bigger bias towards covering conflict, towards covering crisis. And there's no bigger conflict or crisis than the impeachment of a president and a scandal. And so, in a week like this where the president did do some good things, like the Cuba policy, which my former boss, Marco Rubio, worked on, that's totally overshadowed by the ongoing investigation, by his tweets about the investigation, because that is such -- the bias is towards that sort of conflict and that society of scandal. So, as long as there's a whiff of scandal in the White House, that's what the media is going to cover.</s>STELTER: But wasn't that true during the Clinton presidency as well?</s>CONANT: Well, I would argue that the Clinton administration handled the coverage around the scandal better than the Trump administration, which to the extent the Trump administration seems to have any sort of strategy, it's to let the president tweet out whatever he wants, but don't let anybody else say anything at all, try to cover up all the facts. You know, they're not being transparent. They're not answering questions directly. As you pointed out, the president hasn't done a press conference in months, hasn't given an interview in weeks. Maybe that's the opposite of what the Clinton team did, which was very transparent, very forward-leaning on the Starr investigation in the '90s.</s>STELTER: So, Alex, Matt, you're both describing bias. I just saw a tweet from a viewer Danny who says, reporting on Trump's negative behavior is not biased coverage. Ignoring the negative behavior would be biased coverage. But what do you make of the idea that, yes, the coverage may have a negative tone, that's because this presidency is struggling and dysfunctional?</s>SCHLAPP: Well, look, I worked for a Republican president, the last Republican president who it's just so strange how these Republican presidents seem to have a scandal around firing people they're legally allowed to fire. Judge Gonzalez when he was attorney general had the same problem with U.S. attorneys. We get wrapped around the axle on doing things we're allowed to do. Bill Clinton fires every U.S. attorney in the country, no scandal. Bill Clinton fires an FBI director, no scandal. It's a strange thing. And, look, I do think that the way President Trump handles these questions is new, is different. We didn't have Twitter in the Bush years. He's actually very out there and commenting on all types of things. There's a lot of Republicans who actually want him to comment and be engaged less. I think the good news in all this, and I disagree with Alex, is that he has a very good team, including a very good comms team around him, as he faces the questions around what the special counsel is doing. I think he needs to listen to them. I think he's got top-notch talent there, and I think that he needs to just keep plodding away at his agenda like he did in Miami. Alex is right. It doesn't get as much national coverage. But if you look at the Miami coverage and South Florida coverage, it was fantastic and it was upholding a campaign pledge. He needs to keep doing that.</s>STELTER: He's not going to gain any support in the approval rating polls, though, with something like a Cuba policy, is he?</s>SCHLAPP: Yes, he is, absolutely.</s>STELTER: Yes?</s>SCHLAPP: Because it's two things. Yes, number one, it reconnects people to why they wanted a change agent in the White House. And it also reminds people -- remember, he has a very diverse coalition. And South Florida, as Alex knows, is much more diverse than people realize. And the fact that he is connecting to these folks is very important. Also, we're talking about policy, we're talking about human rights, we're talking about free and fair elections. Those are the type of things any president should want to embrace.</s>STELTER: Kaitlan, when you're at the White House covering this beat everyday, do you find reporters increasingly asking about the president's emotional state, about why he feels he has to post these tweets at all times? That's another one of the critiques you get from the Hannitys is that journalists think this president is crazy.</s>COLLINS: Well, reporters are looking at the president's tweets and are reporting on them because we've never had access to the president's emotional state like we do with Donald Trump. We've never had a president who got on Twitter every morning and told us exactly what he was feeling about the news. And Donald Trump does that. That was the problem for his lawyer, Jay Sekulow this morning. Donald Trump tweeted this week, I am under investigation. And Jay Sekulow said this morning this is not what he meant. So, it's a problem for his communications team and his lawyers to have to go on television and explain what he means in tweets and saying that we shouldn't take the president literally.</s>STELTER: Alex, where do you come down on this? I think journalists do have some biases, if you want to call them bias. One is toward competent governance. One is toward decency in civic engagement. Some of the coverage that I think you get complaints about from the right is because journalists are trying to promote those basic inherent American values. And when the president is railing against the fake news media on Twitter calling us a witch hunt, I think that's the way journalists react the way they do. Do you think I'm off on that?</s>CONANT: No, I think you have a valid point. Look, the media loves bipartisanship. You know, whenever there's a big bipartisan gathering on the Hill, the media applauds it. But that's not really what they want to cover. That's not really what they want to talk about. They want to talk about conflict, they want to talk about fighting, they want to talk about Republicans attacking Republicans, Democrats attacking Democrats. I can tell you, I've worked for a lot of Republican members of Congress. The easiest way for a Republican member of Congress to get on TV is to go attack a Republican -- is to attack Republican leadership or the president, President Trump. So, that, I think, is what the media really wants to talk about on a day-to-day basis. And it's a real challenge of governing, because when you do have moments where you bring people together and do bipartisan things, it's really -- it can be really hard to get -- to have that get attention that, you know, a big fight would get. And so, it's a challenge not just for the president but members of Congress as well.</s>STELTER: Fascinating. Matt, Kaitlan, Alex, that you all very much for being here.</s>CONANT: Thank you.</s>SCHLAPP: Thanks, Brian</s>STELTER: Up next here, powerful images of congressional leaders giving joint interviews in the wake of the shooting in Virginia this week. Is our country really as divided as it sounds on TV? We'll get into that right after this.