Interview With Former U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson; Hope Hicks Interview Transcript Released; Iran Shoots Down U.S. Drone.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news: "You'll find out." President Trump is leaving the world guessing about his response to Iran after it shot down a U.S. drone. Is he looking to de-escalate tensions or is he fanning fears of war? Secret briefing. Top congressional leaders summoned to the White House Situation Room for classified details on the drone attack, this as Iran and the Pentagon are making dueling claims about where the unmanned aircraft was shot down. Testimony revealed. House Democrats just released the transcript of Hope Hicks' closed-door interview. We're going over the document learning more about her answers and when the longtime Trump confidant refused to talk. And not backing down. Joe Biden is refusing to apologize for his remarks about working with segregationist senators, saying he doesn't have a racist bone in his body. As his 2020 primary rivals keep the pressure on, other Democrats are rushing to his defense tonight. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in</s>THE SITUATION ROOM. ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.</s>BLITZER: We're following breaking news on the threat of a dangerous new confrontation. Top congressional leaders were just briefed on the shoot-down of a U.S. drone by Iran, the urgency underscored as officials convened in the White House Situation Room. After the meeting, the top Senate Democrat is now warning the president against bumbling into an unauthorized war. Mr. Trump leaving his options open, telling reporters -- and I'm quoting him now -- "You will find out how and when the administration responds." Also breaking, the transcript of Hope Hicks' closed-door testimony is now public. It was just released just moments ago by the House Judiciary Committee. Stand by for new details on that. This hour, I will speak with the former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson. He also served as top Defense Department lawyer. And our correspondents and analysts are also standing by. We're covering all the angles of this breaking story at the White House, the Pentagon, and inside Iran. First, let's go to our senior White House correspondent, Pamela Brown. Pamela, we saw congressional leaders leave the White House just a short time ago. What's the latest on the U.S. response to Iran?</s>PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. They have what the emergency briefing on Iran here at the White House. Senator Schumer spoke after and said he is concerned the administration may bumble into war. But the president remains noncommittal on how the U.S. will respond to the latest act by Iran, saying, we will have to see if military force will be used.</s>BROWN (voice-over): Tonight, high-level emergency meetings at the White House, as national security officials and congressional leaders huddle in the Situation Room to discuss Iran's downing of a U.S. military drone.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They made a very bad mistake. OK?</s>QUESTION: How will you respond?</s>TRUMP: You will find out. This country will not stand for it. That, I can tell you.</s>BROWN: The president's advisers calling the shoot-down an escalation. But just moments after appearing to put Iran on notice, the president floated a theory that Iran's -- quote -- "big mistake" was literally a big mistake.</s>TRUMP: I find it hard to believe it was intentional, if you want to know the truth. I think that it could have been somebody who was loose and stupid. I think they made a mistake. And I'm not just talking about the country made a mistake. I think that somebody under the command of that country made a big mistake.</s>BROWN: However, Iran responded with a different narrative, saying the drone violated its airspace, releasing this video as proof.</s>MAJ. GEN. HOSSEIN SALAMI, IRANIAN REVOLUTIONARY GUARD CORPS (through translator): Destroying the U.S. spy drone had a clear, quick, explicit, and accurate message, which is that defenders of Iran's borders will give strong and firm responses.</s>BROWN: The Pentagon maintains the drone was over international waters and released this video showing a smoke trail in international airspace. President Trump in a delicate dance, saying all options are on the table, but that the situation would be more severe if Americans had been harmed.</s>TRUMP: We didn't have a man or woman in the drone. We had nobody in the drone. It would have made a big difference, let me tell you. Would have made a big, big difference.</s>BROWN: Key Trump ally Senator Lindsey Graham says Trump's options are running out.</s>SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Here is what Iran needs to get ready for, severe pain. If they're itching for a fight, they're going to get one.</s>BROWN: But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had a warning for the president over credibility.</s>REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We started to lose credibility on the subject when we walked away from the nuclear -- the Iran nuclear agreement.</s>BROWN: All of this as the Pentagon plans to deploy 1,000 more American troops to the region to counter Iran's hostile acts, including last week's bombings of two oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman. Sources tell CNN the president privately down played the significance of those attacks because the tankers weren't American.</s>BROWN: And deliberations continue tonight in the administration about Iran. Officials have said prior to the latest act that President Trump has been resisting military engagement. But now the president is facing growing pressure from allies like Lindsey Graham, who said today the president risks looking like he is all talk if he doesn't take action -- Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Pamela Brown at the White House, thanks very much. I want to bring in our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, and our senior international correspondent, Fred Pleitgen. He's joining us live from Tehran. Fred, tonight, Iran is strongly defending itself, releasing both video of the missile attack and producing a map. What's the latest over there?</s>FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, Iran is also contradicting President Trump and certainly not saying this was some sort of mistake by some sort of rogue commander on the ground. The Iranians are saying they definitely meant to shoot down this drone, Wolf, because they say and they maintain that this drone came into their own airspace. That is the big dispute out there. Where exactly was this drone when it was shot down? The Iranians released the video. And if you look at the video and you listen to the voices on that video, it certainly doesn't sound like those are people who believe that they have just made a mistake. Now, Wolf, Iran's foreign minister, Javad Zarif, is now also getting involved in this. He basically tweeted out what he says is sort of a play by play of that drone's almost entire flight. He said it took off shortly after midnight of tonight, was then -- he said that it was masking its identification, which I think could mean that he is saying it might have turned off the transponder or something. He said it was then flying over the Persian Gulf, veered into Iranian airspace, and was then shot down. The interesting thing is he actually tweeted coordinates out of where he says the drone was hit. We looked those coordinates up. That would be about nine miles off the Iranian coast, which, of course, would put it within Iranian territorial waters, Iranian territorial airspace as well. So the Iranians are clearly saying this is something they meant to do and then they issued the very strong warning to the United States, saying this is what happens to the enemies of the Iranian nation. And the head of the Revolutionary Guard, Wolf, which is the unit that shot this drone down, coming out as well, saying, Iran does not want a war with the United States, but also clearly saying that Iran is ready if a war does come. And, finally, Wolf, one of the things that the Iranians are also saying is that they say they have recovered some of the debris of that drone. They say that that was in their own territorial waters, so we are looking to see whether or not the Iranians are going to display that over the next couple of days -- Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Good point, Fred. Stand by. Barbara over at the Pentagon, as you heard, the president suggested this may actually have been a mistake by some rogue general in Iran. Does that theory hold up, based on how Iran is publicly responding?</s>BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are now, as Fred just said, seeing the highest levels of the Iranian government weigh in on this very publicly. But the real question is if this was Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps, if it was one of their missiles that brought the plane down. The president knows, the U.S. knows that this is the most militant wing of the Iranian security and military services and that sometimes in the past, more often than not, they do go their own way. But is there proof of that? That is really the key question right now. And does it matter? Because the U.S. position has been if it's one of these Iranian proxy forces, that the U.S. would still hold the Iranian government responsible for any provocation against the United States or allies in the region, that they would not draw a distinction. It may be that the president's trying to construct a little space for himself to look at this further, to make a decision about what he wants to do next. We know that top U.S. military commanders are very wary. They are not happy about the attack. They think there might be a response at some point. But they are very concerned about how Iran might react and not stepping into suddenly a much wider war -- Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, Fred Pleitgen in Iran, we will get back to both of you. Right now, I want to bring in Homeland Secretary Jeh Johnson. He also previously served as the top counsel over at the Department of Defense. Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us. You have got a lot of experience in this area. Is it even plausible to you that Iran would mistakenly shoot down this American aircraft?</s>JEH JOHNSON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, first, Wolf, I have a pretty good sense for what's going on behind the scenes right now in the Situation Room, at the Pentagon, having been involved in discussions like this. And I think it is a very important question to ask whether or not this was something that was part of a broader concerted action by the Iranian government to raise the level of aggression in the Gulf or whether this was a commander somewhere in the military chain of command who perhaps took action on his own, perhaps above his pay grade, that he wasn't quite authorized to do. If that were the case, I would not be surprised that the government, itself, embraces the action and asserts as if it was a broader step, because they really have no choice. But it is entirely possible this was conducted by a commander on his own who took action because he felt like he had to. And the president, himself, is even floating that idea, which suggests to me that there may be something to it.</s>BLITZER: The only reason I'm a little skeptical about it, Mr. Secretary, is because, earlier in the week, there was another surface- to-air missile that was launched at a U.S. unmanned aircraft, another drone that was in the area searching what was going on with those oil tankers. That missile failed to hit the U.S. aircraft.</s>JOHNSON: Correct.</s>BLITZER: So this would have been the second time they did this, which raises if the -- if they -- if the first one was just some rogue general, why would they do it again?</s>JOHNSON: Well, that's right, Wolf. But you and I don't know the full picture. If we had access to the full intelligence picture, I think we'd have a better sense for exactly what is going on. And it is important to know exactly what is going on. What are the Iranian intentions? Wolf, it is much easier to start an armed engagement than it is to back down from one. And so the president, his national security team, need to be asking themselves, exactly what is going on? What's the motive? Is this part of a broader plan? And they need to be thinking, if they decide to engage the Iranian military in some way to try to degrade this capability, what's the next step after that? They got to think two or three steps ahead. They have got to know what their overall objective is. I'm quite sure that the Navy, from my own prior experience, is clamoring for some form of action. The military in general is probably anxious for some form of action, because a foreign adversary has taken down one of our assets. And when you're in the military, it doesn't matter a lot whether it's manned or unmanned. The fact that an aggressor took action against one of our assets in international waters will be quite significant to our military. And so...</s>BLITZER: Was that an act -- if in fact it was deliberate, designed to shoot down a U.S. aircraft over international waters, was that an act of war?</s>JOHNSON: It is a hostile act that, under the right circumstances, warrants a response in kind, some sort of act of force in kind. And that brings to mind another question, which is exactly what is the legal authority for taking action against the Iranian military, the Iranian government in these circumstances? Is congressional authorization required? Or does the president have inherent constitutional authority?</s>BLITZER: Well, you were the counsel at the Department of Defense. What's your answer?</s>JOHNSON: Well, I have heard arguments earlier in the week that the 2001 authorization for the use of military force right after 9/11 might justify this. I don't believe that. That authorization was to go against al Qaeda and the Taliban and associated forces. I think it would be a stretch to argue that here. I don't believe congressional authorization is actually needed. I think the president has inherent constitutional authority to deploy the military when there are national interests at stake. There are legal opinions from the Department of Justice that say as much. And so the president here, where action was taken against one of our military assets, probably has the authority to respond in some measured way, consistent with the laws of armed conflict.</s>BLITZER: My own sense is -- and I wonder if you agree -- the president, who has been basically an isolationist over all these years -- he wants U.S. troops out of there. Years ago, he used to tell me he wanted troops out of NATO, out of Japan, out of Germany, Korea, elsewhere. He's looking for a way out of this mess. What is your sense?</s>JOHNSON: Well, the fact that he is floating the idea this was a lower-level commander loose and out of control suggests that he might be thinking in those terms. And he's got a very difficult decision to make. You know, his instincts are no foreign engagements. Yet someone took an action against our forces there. And the president has an obligation to protect forces deployed in the Gulf, in the strait, and to keep the international waters open for international commerce. So he's wrestling with a tough decision. And, again, it is much easier to start one of these fights than it is to end one and to back down from one. So I hope he is getting good advice. I hope he's getting all the right advice right now at this moment.</s>BLITZER: We all do, indeed. Jeh Johnson, thanks so much for joining us.</s>JOHNSON: Thank you.</s>BLITZER: All right, there is breaking news on the congressional testimony by the former White House Communications Director Hope Hicks. A transcript of what she said yesterday behind closed doors was just released. I want to go to our senior congressional correspondent, Manu Raju. You and our team, you have been going through the transcript. Eight hours, she was there. What are you learning so far?</s>MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, she was pressed extensively behind closed doors about the hush money payments that occurred in the 2016 campaign that were aimed at apparently covering up those alleged extramarital affairs involving then candidate Trump, presumably to help his election chances at the time. Now, she denied having any knowledge about this involvement. She said that both -- to both Stormy Daniels, the former -- the adult film actress, as well as the former Playboy Playmate Karen McDougal, she said she was not involved with that and had no knowledge when that actually occurred. She had -- she issued a statement right before the elections to "The Wall Street Journal" saying that these allegations were untrue, and she was asked about why she made that statement. And she said that she was directed to make a public statement denying that a relationship existed between Mr. Trump and a woman named Karen McDougal. And then she was asked by Sheila Jackson Lee, a Democrat on the committee, did you ask the president whether that was true? Hicks responds, "Not to my recollection." Now, she was also asked, Wolf, about a number of topics during -- that occurred during the White House. Overall, she was not allowed to answer those questions because the White House attorneys and the Trump administration and the Justice Department lawyers made clear that she was covered, in their view, by -- quote -- "absolute immunity" and she did not have to answer questions about her time in the White House. Now, one episode did come up, which was the recusal of the then Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who oversaw the Mueller probe. The president wanted Sessions to unrecuse himself, to go back and oversee the Mueller probe. And according to the Mueller report, he had conversations with the former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski to essentially direct Jeff Sessions to move and oversee the probe again. Hope Hicks, according to the Mueller report, was aware of this. Now, she was asked, Hope Hicks, yesterday behind closed doors about that episode. She called it -- quote -- "odd," that whole episode. Now, when Democrats tried to drill down further, saying, well, why was this odd, that is when the White House attorneys came in and they objected. And they said that they would not respond to those questions. Now, one other thing was that in the Mueller report it alleged that Donald Trump Jr. had told a larger group of individuals about the lead about dirt on the Clinton Foundation in the days before that now infamous June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower with the Russians. Now, that contradicts what Donald Trump Jr. had said in sworn testimony, that he only told a couple of people this, according to the Mueller report, which relies on separate testimony from Rick Gates, he had told a larger group of people, and that included Hope Hicks. Well, Hope Hicks in the interview actually says, "I don't remember the meeting taking place," essentially saying she doesn't remember that larger meeting and being told by Donald Trump Jr., the president's eldest son, that there was dirt on the Clinton Foundation. So we're still going through all of the headlines of this report, Wolf, but it is very clear that -- from this transcript that Hope Hicks did not answer a lot of the questions that Democrats were pursuing about her time in the White House. Over 155 times, according to the Democrats' count, they objected to her answering. The Democrats say they plan to pursue that in court, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: We will see where they go next. Manu Raju, I know you and your team are going through the document. We will get back to you. Thank you very much. We are going to have a lot more on all the breaking news, including escalating tensions with Iran -- right after this.