Interview With Education Secretary Rod Paige
DOBBS: Tonight, in our series of special reports, "Our Failing Schools," cutbacks in school budgets are coming at the expense, of course, of students. In Alabama, for example, more than two-thirds of the student there fail to meet proficiency standards on achievement tests. The state's response? Incredibly, it is cutting spending on education. Lisa Sylvester is here now and has the report for us -- Lisa.</s>LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, unlike many other states, Alabama's public schools get most of its funding from the state, which is in the midst of an enormous budget crisis. And that means making some very tough decisions.</s>LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some Alabama schools are so pressed for money, the students don't even have their own textbooks, making it difficult to assign homework.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is your independent reading time.</s>SYLVESTER: But the deep cuts don't end there; 3,600 teachers will be let go next year. Tutorial problems that help students graduate on time are on the chopping block. And a nationally renowned reading program that promises to bring all students up to grade reading levels is being scaled back.</s>ED RICHARDSON, ALABAMA EDUCATION SUPERINTENDENT: What we're going to see is our test schools and our student achievement levels decline, dropout rate go up, which I think would have a long-term impact on this state.</s>CHILDREN: Go. I'm.</s>SYLVESTER: Alabama schools had to slash $100 million from this year's budget and are bracing for another $200 million reduction next year.</s>AMY RODGERS, TEACHER, HALCYON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: This reading program gives children the confidence that they need to learn to read. Without this program, unfortunately, many children would be left behind.</s>SYLVESTER: It's not just Alabama schools facing a severe budget crunch. The American Federation of Teachers estimates that districts in at least 22 states have cut spending; 13 states have gone as far as to scale back K-through-12 programs, the last thing anyone wants to touch. Without learning the fundamentals, students may struggle the rest of their lives.</s>WILLIAM COX, STANDARD & POOR'S SCHOOL EVALUATION SERVICES: If you're not investing today in good reading programs, that are very important particularly for early childhood development in the early grades, then that creates a long-term impact that you can't make up.</s>SYLVESTER: Many school districts have opted to cut electives as the least painful option. Schools in Roseburg, Oregon, for instance offer Spanish, but not French. But even cutting subjects like music, art and foreign languages has a direct impact on the core subjects.</s>LEE PATERSON, ROSEBURG SUPERINTENDENT: The research does show that students who take a second language do perform better than their peers who don't have that opportunity. The same can be said of music.</s>SYLVESTER: The decision to save money by cutting school funding looks to be shortsighted, because, ultimately, someone has to pay. And right now, it's the students in the classroom.</s>SYLVESTER: Schools are having to get very creative to raise money. One school district in Austin, Texas, for instance, wants to sell the naming rights for its new stadium. Bidding starts at $2 million -- Lou.</s>DOBBS: And we wish them well. Lisa, thanks. Incredible, what the state of Alabama faces, and those students. Lisa Sylvester, thank you. Well, this country spends $470 billion on education each and every year. My guest tonight says that should be enough to ensure that every third grader is able to read at a third grade level. The secretary of the Department of Education, Rod Paige, also says parents should have the option to use vouchers to send their children to better schools. Secretary Paige is with us now. Good to have you here.</s>ROD PAIGE, EDUCATION SECRETARY: It's good to be here.</s>DOBBS: Mr. Secretary, that's an enormous amount of money, $470 billion. Why in the world can't our children, too many of them, why can't they read?</s>PAIGE: Absolutely. In fact, this nation last year spent more money on K-12 education than it did on national defense. Is it too much to ask that a fourth grade child read on a fourth grade level after this nation commits that much public money? There are clearly other reasons why our students are not performing.</s>DOBBS: What are they, in your judgment?</s>PAIGE: Well, I think accountability is a good example of something we need to be better at. And that is why the president, in his No Child Left Behind act, has accountability right up at forefront, accountability, stop making excuses about some students who are having difficult situations at home, difficult languages, but take responsibility for students and teach our students to read.</s>DOBBS: That's great. We know, first, critics say that it's simply not an adequately funded, while noble goal. What is your reaction to those critics?</s>PAIGE: What's underfunded about $288 billion K-12 last year, federal and state?</s>DOBBS: That's...</s>PAIGE: That's a lot of money.</s>DOBBS: That's a lot of money, by any definition.</s>PAIGE: That's right.</s>DOBBS: Yet we just heard from Lisa Sylvester. She reported on the state of Alabama with students who don't even have textbooks. Your department is responsible for education at the federal level. But there are 50 states out there also responsible, and all of those school districts. And the idea that our public education, which was the -- in my judgment, the great treasure of this company in our 200- year history, it is going -- I'll just say it -- it's going to hell in a handbasket.</s>PAIGE: Well, no, I'm not sure I would agree with that. I know, when President Bush took office in 2000 in January, we found that our education system was not meeting, despite the fact that we had many wonderful educators and many wonderful teachers and principals and some great schools, primarily, our system was not operating effectively. But now that the president has proposed and the Congress has enacted the No Child Left Behind Act, I think there are many positives things that we can say about what's going on in our education.</s>DOBBS: Oh, I'm not arguing, Mr. Secretary, that there aren't many positives in that educational system. But what I'm saying is that, when 36 percent of our fourth graders can't read at a fourth grade level, when we have students who can't find a textbook in the state of Alabama -- and it's not the only state in which that's occurring -- we've got a horrible problem.</s>DOBBS: And that, to me, is inexcusable.</s>PAIGE: It is. And we do have a horrible problem. And that is why we as a nation must embrace the vision of the president that every child learn. And the No Child Left Behind Act is the framework around which we can improve this terrible situation that you're speaking of.</s>DOBBS: The fact is, our special-education programs, which are laudable and notable and remarkable, in point of fact, many teachers blame the inability to deal effectively with special-ed students for slowing down other students and diverting much needed money and time. How do we deal with that issue, because no one wants to talk about it, it seems?</s>PAIGE: Well, let's talk about it. The No Child Left Behind idea means no child left behind. A child who has special education needs is just like a child that does not have special education needs. Every child should get our best effort. So if a child has special needs, we need to meet that child's need just like we do others. So we want every single child to learn.</s>DOBBS: Every child to learn?</s>PAIGE: That's right.</s>DOBBS: The definition of special ed needs -- is it truly, while noble and aspirational -- is it realistic when we're punishing many students because of that diversion of funding?</s>PAIGE: Well, I think what we need to do...</s>DOBBS: And time?</s>PAIGE: Well, what we need to make sure that we're adequately addressing needs of all students, no matter what they are. The Special Education Act i-d-e-a is being is looked at now -- it's been -- to be reauthorized, and look at some of the issues in that we need to improve in that particular act. But we cannot leave special ed children behind either.</s>DOBBS: And let's -- let's talk also about minorities in this country. Still, the gap in testing in excess of 30 percent, whether black or Hispanic, behind white students.</s>PAIGE: Absolutely. And that is what we're working about -- working now. That is why it's so important that we embrace the No Child Left Behind Act and continue to work on the framework that it provides for us.</s>DOBBS: Mr. Secretary, I'll buy into the No Child Left Behind. But what I can't buy into is why through -- and not to put this on the Bush administration, the Clinton administration, the administrations before it, the problems that are deep-seeded in the educational system. I keep asking myself and let me ask you, where in the world is the National Education Association? Where is the teachers' association? Where is the PTA? Everyone goes on as if we can just simply surrender our future, not worry about the fact students are not being taught mathematics and natural sciences. How frustrated must you be?</s>PAIGE: Oh, I think if I had the luxury to be frustrated, I could be very frustrated. But what I'm going to do is work hard to make sure that we get accountability in schools, that parents get choices, that we're using the right pedagogy, and that we have local options and flexibility. This is what we're going to do on a No Child Left Behind Act. And that is going to be the framework around which we're going to improve schools. But we must improve schools in a way that every single child has an opportunity to learn.</s>DOBBS: Mr. Secretary, we thanks -- we thank you very much, as always, for being here. It's -- it is one of the toughest jobs in Washington, if not the toughest, in point of fact, because you're so dependent on so many other people, including communities and the parents of the students who you're trying to serve.</s>PAIGE: That's right. And that's why the nation must embrace this and help us make sure that we create a system in America where every single child has an opportunity to learn. That's what the president wants. That's what I want as well.</s>DOBBS: I think that's what we all want.</s>PAIGE: Thank you.</s>DOBBS: Mr. Secretary, thank you very much.</s>PAIGE: Thank you.</s>DOBBS: Secretary Rod Paige.</s>PAIGE: Thank you.</s>DOBBS: Coming up next, your government at work. The deficit, soaring. But tens of thousands of government officials are flying high, and we do mean flying in high style. You're paying for it. That story and the market next. Stay with us.