Sanders Hopes Superdelegates Flip on Clinton; Trump's Mixed Message on Guns in Schools; Key GOP Donors Still Resistant to Trump
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Fred. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And we begin with the increasingly bitter back and forth between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. This time on the issue of guns. Not only is Clinton accusing Trump of being in the pocket of the gun lobby, she says he wants to allow guns in schools and that a Trump presidency would mean, quote, "more kids at risk for violence and bigotry."</s>HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Parents, teachers, and schools should have the right to keep guns out of classrooms. Just like Donald Trump does at many of his hotels, by the way.</s>SCIUTTO: In typical Trump fashion, a response came on Twitter. Trump tweeting, quote, "Crooked Hillary said that I want guns brought into the classroom, the school classroom. Wrong," exclamation point. But then Trump said this on a morning talk show.</s>DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't want to have guns in classrooms, although in some cases, teachers should have guns in classrooms, frankly. But I'm not advocating guns in classrooms. But remember in some cases and a lot of people have made this case, teachers should be able to have guns -- trained teachers should be able to have guns in classrooms.</s>SCIUTTO: We will have much more on the gun debate in just a moment. But first, happening this hour, Senator Bernie Sanders will rally his supporters in southern California. You could see them gathering there. The Democratic underdog now hoping that he can get superdelegates to flip from Hillary Clinton to him. It's something he had a lot to say about this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper. Have a listen.</s>SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not a great fan of superdelegates but their job is to take an objective look at reality. And I think the reality is that we are the stronger candidate. So we will see what happens, Jake.</s>JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: So you actually -- you think it would be OK for the pledged delegates, the majority of Democratic voters to pick one candidate and then the superdelegates to actually go with a different candidate? You're not suggesting that?</s>SANDERS: Well, it's very funny -- it's very funny that you ask me that question when you had 400 pledged delegates come on board Clinton's campaign before anyone else was in the race. That's called an anointment process. That's called the establishment talking.</s>SCIUTTO: Let's begin with Sunlen Serfaty. She is live outside Sanders -- the Sanders event in Vista, California. So, Sunlen, Sanders also had tough words today for the chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee. He sees her in effect in the Hillary Clinton. What did he have to say?</s>SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim. And you know, this was so fascinating to watch him this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper, really bring some much harsher rhetoric than he has before. Of course this feud between Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz and his campaign has been long documented over the last few months over the course of this campaign. The Bernie Sanders campaign has been very unhappy with how she has done her job. They feel that the Democratic nominating system is rigged against their campaign. So they've been very outspoken. But today, Bernie Sanders took it one step farther when he was asked by Jake Tapper about her own primary battle in the state of Florida for the House. Her Democratic opponent. Actually, Bernie Sanders came out and endorsed him over her. Here's what he told Jake Tapper this morning.</s>SANDERS: Well, clearly I favor her opponent. His views are much closer to mine than his -- than Wasserman Schultz's. And let me also say this, in all due respect to the current chairperson, if elected president, she would not be reappointed to be chair of the DNC.</s>SERFATY: So absolutely no mincing of words there by Bernie Sanders. Very strong words for Debbie Wasserman Schultz. He has also sent out a fundraising e-mail on behalf of her opponent, Tim Canova, this morning trying to raise money for his race against her in Florida. Now Debbie Wasserman Schultz has responded. She said even though Bernie Sanders has endorsed my opponent, I will remain neutral in the Democratic process, in the nominating race until it ends. But certainly interesting, Jim, to see. It will also be notable, potentially, even though this is a race about Florida, whether he brings it up here in California, of course this sort of railing against the system, railing against the Democratic nominating process is exactly the sort of thing that fires up his base. I would anticipate Bernie Sanders to bring it up here today -- Jim.</s>SCIUTTO: Sunlen Serfaty with the Sanders campaign there in California. Let's talk this over now with our political panel. We have CNN contributor Sally Kohn, she's a Bernie Sanders supporter. We have Democratic strategist Maria Cardona whose firm has done work for a Clinton super PAC. Cardona is a Clinton supporters and a 2016 superdelegate. And Republican strategist Boris Epstein. He is a Donald Trump supporter. So, Sally, to you first. You've been a Sanders supporter. You endorsed him in April. Yet, this week, you wrote, quote, "I'm having a hard time being a Bernie Sanders supporter at the moment." Why is that?</s>SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I was disappointed with the behavior of some, not all, but some Sanders supporters in Nevada. The media got it wrong. Chairs weren't thrown. But what did happen was certainly far less civil than I would like to see and I think most Sanders supporters would like to see. I'm also disappointed in the way the Sanders campaign responded. I think you have to come very clearly, repeatedly, you know, first thing out of your mouth against that kind of behavior without saying buts and talking about process. The perception that the process was rigged.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes. Well --</s>KOHN: But that said --</s>SCIUTTO: That's something that the Democrats have criticized Donald Trump, right, for not immediately criticizing supporters who resorted to violence.</s>KOHN: Well, that's right. And look, part of the thing that's been inspiring about Bernie Sanders' campaign all along has been it has represented the moral high ground in this country for folks too long frustrated by politics, that always have sort of pragmatic and centrist. So I think you have to continue to occupy that moral high ground and really represent the kind of positive, uplifting transformation for all Americans that is at the heart of this campaign.</s>SCIUTTO: So, Maria, you heard Senator Sanders say there in the interview with Jake Tapper, in his view, Clinton was anointed, his choice of words, by the Democratic Party and that helps explain his opposition to the DNC chairwoman, Congressman Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Is there some truth to that? Certainly there are a lot of folks in the party who thought it was going to be an easy ride for her. They were not expecting a challenge as lasting as the one she's gotten from Sanders.</s>MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the people who thought that were certainly not Hillary Clinton and certainly not anybody in Hillary Clinton's campaign. They all knew they were going to have a fight on their hands. They perhaps didn't know it was going to come from Bernie Sanders. As you remember there was a lot of speculation that that fight might come from Elizabeth Warren. The majority of Democrats actually wanted a competitive primary. They believe a competitive primary is good for whoever ultimately gets the nomination. As a Hillary supporter, I think Bernie has been terrific for the party, has been terrific for her and ultimately for the conversation that we've had within the Democratic Party. But I do think that, you know, what he is saying now is indicative of a little bit of frustration because he knows that he is losing and he's not going to get to the convention with the majority of pledged delegates. And let's be very clear. That is what matters. Pledged delegates are what matters. It's actually kind of ironic and frankly a little hypocritical for Bernie Sanders who does represent the sort of Democratic revolution in his eyes, the populous movement that is all about the will of the people that he is now trying to make the argument to the superdelegates to overturn the will of the people by telling them that they should choose him as opposed to the candidate who has the majority of pledged delegates and three million more votes than he does. It's not going to happen.</s>SCIUTTO: Boris, if I could turn to you, because just this issue between Clinton and Trump, the latest issue has been on guns. Donald Trump appeared frankly to send mixed, even contradictory messages in his "FOX and Friends" interview this morning, on whether teachers in the -- the big question whether there should be guns in the classroom. But then when you look back to 2012, right after Newtown, this horrible tragedy, all those children shot and killed, this is what Donald Trump tweeted at that moment. "President Obama spoke for me and every American in his remarks in Newtown, Connecticut." A reminder to our viewers, the president's remarks in Newtown said, enough of this, we need new gun laws. What is Donald Trump's position on guns? Do there need to be more restrictions or no?</s>BORIS EPSTEIN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: We've been talking about that tweet for three days. As far as the tweet goes specifically, to say he's with the president was not a political statement. That was the statement that Donald Trump agreed that this was a horrible massacre that happened --</s>SCIUTTO: To be fair, the president's point that day, you can go back and read the speech, was not just that this was a tragedy. The president's message that day was that now it's time to change the gun laws. That seemed to be --</s>SCIUTTO: There were other points that Donald Trump has publicly supported stricter gun laws.</s>EPSTEIN: So neither you nor the Democrats</s>CARDONA: And that would be scary.</s>SCIUTTO: It's not just the tweet. I mean he has public position --</s>EPSTEIN: Guns around schools should not be had by anybody who's not trained. The point that Donald Trump was making this morning was that if teachers are specifically trained, there could be a discussion and maybe a reason to have teachers be able to have guns, again, if they're trained, if that's there to protect the students. And that's not something that's unreasonable. It should be part of the national discussion. But again, only with specific licensing and training as far as teachers or security guard having guns. And there are plenty of schools around the country in specific neighborhoods where security guards do have guns. So that's part of the discussion and there's no problem with it whatsoever. From a sitting -- where I am, it's great to see the Clinton camp and the Sanders camp continuing to go at it. And if you're seeing the numbers, 18 percent of folks who are backing Sanders are going to back Trump, 60 percent are not going to back Clinton as of now, as of the latest on NBC polls. That's very interesting.</s>SCIUTTO: Sally, I want about that point --</s>SCIUTTO: It's a reasonable concern for Democrats because not only have you seen that in polls, but there is something to be said for what Trump and Sanders supporters have in common, which is a frustration with Washington, et cetera. How big a concern is that to Hillary Clinton? Maria, I might go to you and Sally, just quickly before we go.</s>CARDONA: Sure. Well, I think Sally will agree with me here in saying that Republicans should not be too gleeful because in comparison to what is going on and has gone on in their party, this is no comparison. The Democrats will be together. Yes, there might be some people who might not come out and vote. But ultimately at the end of the day and Bernie Sanders has said this himself, and I take him at his word, the last thing he wants and the thing that he is going to fight most against is to have a Donald Trump in the White House. I think he agrees. I think most Bernie Sanders supporters would agree that if Donald Trump gets into the White House, it's going to be the end of a democracy and the beginning of an idiotic --</s>EPSTEIN: Oh come on, Maria. That rhetoric is not helpful. End of democracy? Come on.</s>SCIUTTO: Sally, I got to give you the -- I got to give you the final word. Are you -- do you believe Democrats and Hillary Clinton should be that confident?</s>KOHN: I mean, first of all I don't think anyone should be confident. The most important thing that any Democrat or anyone in the left can say right now is that Donald Trump very much could win and we shouldn't rest on our laurels or otherwise we're guaranteed we're done.</s>CARDONA: Agree. Agree.</s>KOHN: Number one, and number two, I mean, I got to applaud Boris for that Cirque de Soleil-esque contortionism. The fact of the matter is, you know, this is just one more example another place where Donald Trump is not only bending the truth, he's literally bending his own statements and trying to have it both ways and constantly having trouble with basic facts. You know --</s>EPSTEIN: And I disagree with you and voters do as well.</s>SCIUTTO: Guys, we got to leave it there. We got to leave it there. We will be -- we will be covering this issue throughout the day, though. So Sally Kohn, Maria Cardona, Boris Epstein, thanks very much for joining us.</s>CARDONA: Thanks so much, Jim.</s>SCIUTTO: You're very welcome. Coming up, the mission to free Fallujah in Iraq. Iraqi forces gear up for an operation to retake the city from ISIS with a call for civilians to get out and get out fast. Plus, a disturbing report about graffiti, one scribbled across that doomed EgyptAir plane. Is it a clue or just an eerie coincidence? A live report from Cairo is coming up.