FBI Expert Testifies About Booby-Trapped Apartment; Theater Shooting Trial: Victim's Parents in Court Every Day; Calls for Special Prosecutor in Baltimore.
BANFIELD: It is week three of the Colorado movie theater shooting trial, week three of what could be a six months long case. James Holmes' defense says he is not guilty by reason of insanity. But the prosecution is showing the length this man went to try to stop the police from taking him down, either at the theater or at his apartment because today the jury is hearing from an FBI special agent about all of those explosives found in Holmes' booby-trapped apartment. Had someone opened that door and stepped inside inadvertently? There could have been even more victims in this already tragic story. You know the name of the killer. You've heard it time and time again. But here are the names of the 12 victims who lost their lives that day. Rebecca Wingo, Alexander Teves, Alex Sullivan, Veronica Moser- Sullivan, Micayla Medek, Matt McQuinn, John Larimer, Gordon Cowden, Jesse Childress, Alexander Boik, Jonathan Blunk, and Jessica Redfield Ghawi. Jessica was 24-years old and she went to the new Batman Movie with her friend Brent, in fact one of her last tweet the day before the shooting is this, "Never thought I'd have to coerce a guy into seeing the midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises with me." Her mother, Sandy Phillips and stepfather Lonnie Phillips join me live now and they have moved heaven and earth to attend everyday of the trial. Sandy and Lonnie, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us. First and foremost, how are the two of you holding up as we head into week three of this?</s>SANDY PHILLIPS, MOTHER OF JESSICA REDFIELD GHAWI: We're holding up by holding on to one another and the other family members that are here that we become close to over the last two and half, almost three years.</s>LONNIE PHILLIPS, STEPFATHER OF JESSICA REDFIELD GHAWI: We have some rough days in court...</s>BANFIELD: This has -- this has really not been -- Sorry, go ahead, Lonnie.</s>L. PHILLIPS: I'll say we've had some rough days in court, but with the other families there, with support. We've been getting through it.</s>BANFIELD: So this is not easy for the two of you to attend trial. You have literally had to uproot your lives and as I understand it, you're living in a mobile home just so that you can be there every single day?</s>S. PHILLIPS: Yes. We -- actually our lives have been upside down for almost three years, so it was a pretty easy decision to decide that we really wanted to be here during the trial. And represent the other families who couldn't be here and represent our daughter, most importantly. So we leased our house out and sold all our furniture and bought a travel trailer and a truck and pulled it along with us, and here we are the for the remaining trial days.</s>BANFIELD: That's a lot of trial days. I mean, we're just two full weeks in, starting week three and this could go on for upwards of six months. Are -- do you feel you made the right move? Will you be able to get through that much of this awfulness?</s>L. PHILLIPS: Yes. We made the right move.</s>S. PHILLIPS: Yeah.</s>L. PHILLIPS: Absolutely. There was no doubt. I mean, we didn't have any discussion about it and we just made the decision and did it...</s>S. PHILLIPS: The awfulness happened three years ago, almost. So, you know, we've been living with awfulness, so it was just the next step in our journey. And as long as we have each other to take that journey with, we're OK.</s>BANFIELD: I know that you've not been supportive of the notion that there is a camera in that court room and I understand and empathize with you on what it must feel like to have to see that image of that killer everyday in that courtroom. At the same time, can you help us understand as we look at a very static image, what it's like for you and the family members to be that close to him day in and day out?</s>S. PHILLIPS: Actually, he's kind of a -- an enigma. He plays the court very well. He plays the jury very well. He sits there very quietly. Exchanges comments with his attorneys, we see his parents in the courthouse and that's probably more difficult than seeing him in many ways. So, you know, you just -- you buck up. I mean there's no other way of putting it. You just pull your boots on everyday and say, OK, we're going to hear some things we don't want to hear. And you hold on tight.</s>L. PHILLIPS: So we've been there a couple of weeks now and we've kind of gotten used to the routine. There's always unexpected testimony and gut-wrenching stuff that we try to protect ourselves against. So if we have to leave, we leave.</s>S. PHILLIPS: Yeah.</s>L. PHILLIPS: But it's...</s>S. PHILLIPS: They have an overflow courtrooms, so if the testimony gets to be too much, but we still want to hear and see what's going on, we can step into another courtroom and watch it from there. So, you know, we do have that advantage where -- because we're not suppose to cry...</s>BANFIELD: Yeah.</s>S. PHILLIPS: We're not supposed to show emotion. You know, he has all the rights, we have none. So that's been difficult because some of the things we hear on a daily basis -- when we hear about somebody being found in row 13, we know who that is and we know the family and we know the devastation. So, it's a lot more personal to us than it is to the jurors at this point. I think we...</s>BANFIELD: Sandy, I want to ask you about the jurors. Do you ever see them looking at you? Do you ever get a chance to look directly at them and whether you know it or not, beseech in them the justice that you're both looking for?</s>S. PHILLIPS: You know, they do see us. They don't know who we are. It's never been pointed out to them that there are family members everyday in the courtroom. But they do see us, they just don't know who we are, but we've been able -- here in Colorado, the jurors are allowed to ask questions at the end of the testimony and we've been very, very impressed with the questions they have asked. They seem to be a very serious and a very connected jury. So, we're hopeful.</s>BANFIELD: Do you -- do you know exactly what you want out of this process? It's just so early but yet, are you sure you know what you want to see come of this?</s>L. PHILLIPS: Yes. We're sure. We want him in a place where he cannot harm anyone else. It doesn't matter as which way this comes out. There's no justice for us, we've already lost our daughter, we're just trying to protect other families from going through what we go through. And support them.</s>S. PHILLIPS: I think the only thing that would be unacceptable to most of us is if he were committed because if he was committed to a mental institution, their job is to release him someday and that would be unacceptable. And the other outcome would be a mistrial, where we would have to go through this all again, a hung jury would be devastating...</s>BANFIELD: Well, I know you do not like...</s>S. PHILLIPS: Anything beyond that...</s>BANFIELD: I was going to say I know you do not like to here this killer's name, and so let's say the name of your daughter, Jessica Redfield Ghawi. Can you close this interview by telling me what you want us to know about her?</s>S. PHILLIPS: Oh my -- a lightning in a bottle. Joy, hope, fresh air. What else, baby?</s>L. PHILLIPS: Well, of course we miss her presence. That's the main thing. And it happened at anytime of the day, anytime of the night, we miss her. And we want the world to know that we're doing this because of her. Because she would want us to use this tragedy to help other people, and because of her, we're doing this.</s>BANFIELD: Again, her name...</s>S. PHILLIPS: It has to stop...</s>BANFIELD: ... is Jessica Redfield Ghawi. I will say it again and again because all too often, it's the killer who gets the attention instead of beautiful people like your daughter. I don't -- I can't profess to know that half of her but her pictures are like you said, lightning in a bottle. Sandy and Lonnie, our hearts go out to you and I'm sending you strength as you progress to the next few months of this.</s>S. PHILLIPS: Thank you, Ashleigh. That's so kind. We appreciate it.</s>L. PHILLIPS: Thank you.</s>BANFIELD: We'll be right back.</s>BANFIELD: Dismiss the charges or reassign the case to a special prosecutor? That is a big, big demand. And it's coming from the attorneys for the six Baltimore police officers who were charged in Freddie Gray's death. Now that prosecutor Marilyn Mosby has come under fire from the police for being what they say is too quick to file charges against the officer, not to mention some potential conflicts of interest. Again, in their opinion. Joining me now is CNN's Sara Sidner she's live in Baltimore along HLN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson. So first of all, where are we in this battle of words already, has it actually become battle of paper work and is there a response from the prosecutor about this demand?</s>SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's no response yet. The prosecutor has been pretty clear and saying she does not want to try this case in the media although she did read the charges out in her initial press conference when she announced that she was going to be charging these six officers with very serious charges including second degree murder. But what we have seen is a motion that's been filed a 109 pages by the attorneys for six officers. And really what's listed in that some of the main points, really have to do complex of interest that they see and that they're alleging relationships that she has for example with the attorney for Freddie Gray's family. Relationships that she may have with potential witnesses the fact that her office went and did its own investigation into this case, separate from the police investigation. So there were something that have come up even the relationship with her husband is they say is questionable because you got councilman in the district where Freddie Gray was killed saying that it could get him some political clout her going forward with this prosecution. We should be clear though that it is likely that she herself the Chief Prosecutor Marilyn Mosby will not be trying this case, it will likely to be given to one of her veterans. But this paper work basically says it's not just her but her office that she'd be taking off of this case. It's fascinating to watch this, this is not normal. We don't see this all the time. But where we did see it was Ferguson, the place where really, it was the birthplace of this new movement. We saw this happen in Ferguson. But it was the reverse people doubt that he was bias towards the police, not towards the people who are involved in the case.</s>BANFIELD: Let me get Joey on that. Because Joey you also have police officers in your family in Ferguson. The prosecutor had police officers in his family in Baltimore. The prosecutor has police officers in here family. What am I missing in that Ferguson they wanted the prosecutor off the case because they thought it was too cozy with the cops. And in Baltimore they want the prosecutor off the case because they think she's too cozy with say the protesters.</s>JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Aha so, here inlays the issue. The issue is people want to understand that you have an investigation that's fair, that independent of process that works and a process that you can trust. Now if you get to that process you can trust then everyone will buy into it. And initially whenever you look at the prosecutor's office -- prosecuting police there's that perception that perhaps it's not fairness because you're working with the police. But as you've mentioned and as Sara mentioned there's a twist here.</s>BANFIELD: Yeah.</s>JACKSON: Because it's not so much that "Hey you're working with the police and you'll be biased towards the police in favor of them in this case, they're saying well maybe there's a bias against the police. And so ultimately you have to come up with a process and I think you'll see -- you're going to see a growing movement on this nationally where everyone could respect whatever happens whether it's for the police or against.</s>BANFIELD: So some critiques have brought up the fact maybe it's a race issue because it was a white prosecutor or a white officer in Ferguson and her it's a black prosecutor and a black a victim in Baltimore. But can you perhaps help me through the technical which might change thing. In Ferguson there were no charges, there was nothing, we all waited for a grand jury which jimmed up a lot of the energy. But here charges and yet we still might have a grand jury.</s>JACKSON: Well let's address that the first thing is, is that the prosecutor's job is to level charges in the event that they believe there's a probable cause. Now if you're the attorney for the police officers of course you're going to file this motion because she has Mosby, the state's attorney made clear this isn't business as usual. It's very rare that you see officers charged most less indicted. Now she started off Mosby with the charges it will now go to a grand jury, it could be a preliminary hearing. And let's briefly about the difference in a grand jury you impanel 23 people, 12 of which is simple majority, has to conclude A is there a probable cause to believe that a crime was committed and B do these officers do it. Based upon the fact that she's moving forward full steam ahead, the attorney saying "Wait a second, wait a second this is un-chartered ground." So now that you have a very motivated state's attorney who wants to get an indictment here, they're saying "Not so fast, it needs to be independent." She may in fact though the preliminary route, the preliminary hearing route where of course there is no grand jury, she takes it to a judge.</s>BANFIELD: I mean it's sad -- it's complicated but fascinating and the details do matter...</s>JACKSON: Oh absolutely.</s>BANFIELD: Joey Jackson thank you and Sara Sidner again great work in the field on these very similar, yet very different stories. Everyone thank you so much for watching stay tuned, Wolf starts right after this quick break.