Trump Departs Washington Amid Fury Over Book; Trump Slams Tell-All Book As Phony And Full Of Lies; Tillerson: "Never Questioned" Trump's Mental Fitness; Trump Had White House Lawyer Urge Sessions Not To Recuse Himself
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone. Very good evening to you live from CNN London. I'm Isa Soares sitting in for Hala Gorani. Tonight, as the author of a bombshell book says Donald Trump has lost it, his secretary of state is defending his boss in a rare interview right here with CNN. Also, ahead, Apple users haven't been spared in the great computer chip debacle. We will tell what you can do to protect your device from prying eyes. Plus, a pretty penny for your cup of coffee. U.S. lawmakers propose a new chart to help cut down on waste. But first, Donald Trump has left Washington, appearing as if it's business as usual as he heads for a weekend retreat. There's no escaping the firestorm over a new bombshell book any time soon. "Fire and Fury" came out today portraying a scathing picture of the Trump administration as well as the president himself. Mr. Trump didn't mention the book when he talked to reporters on the White House lawn a short time ago as you can see there. But earlier, he called it phony as well as full of lies. We would should note that some of the author's reporting has been corroborated while some errors have been identified. We should say that Michael Wolff describes some scenes without directly quoting anyone. His sourcing at times is rather vague. He is standing by every word. Wolff spoke today with NBC. Take a listen.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the overarching themes is that according to your reporting everyone around the president, senior advisers, family members, every single one questions his intelligence and fitness for office.</s>MICHAEL WOLFF, AUTHOR OF "FIRE AND FURY": Let me put a marker in the sand here, 100 percent of the people around him. I will tell you the one description that everyone gave -- everyone has in common, they all say he is like a child. What they mean by that is he has a need for immediate gratification. It's all about him.</s>SOARES: Well, one thing's for sure, Mr. Trump's effort to stop the publication with a cease and desist letter clearly just didn't work. The book is flying off the shelves. Not just in the United States. Here's what one buyer said today right here in London.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was delighted when it came out. It seems to be the final -- hopefully the final nail in the coffin. I don't know how many nails you need. I'm not sure what the inaccuracies are that are going to be entertaining and disturbing.</s>SOARES: Entertaining and disturbing. There's definitely intense interest in this book, but will there be any significant fallout? Let's bring in CNN White House reporter, Stephen Collinson, and CNN contributor, Salena Zito. She's a national political reporter for the "Washington Examiner." Thank you very much for taking time to be here on the show. Stephen, if I may start with you, President Trump trying very hard in the last 48 hours to discredit and block this book with very little success. How has this all being received by the White House?</s>STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I think the White House had a bit of a slow start on Wednesday when the revelations about this book first started to come out. They seemed they were quite shocked. The book was originally supposed to come out next week. They got their act together a little bit better now. You have seen allies and friends of Trump fanning out across the television to try and counter some of the very unflattering pictures of the president, from the podium in the White House, Sarah Sanders, the White House spokeswoman, has been flailing away at the book. Basically, trying to pick up on any errors that have been proven to try and discredit the contention of Michael Wolff as a whole. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson in an interview with CNN today, he said that he had not seen any evidence that the president was mentally unfit and wasn't up to the job, which is the central thrust that's coming out of the Michael Wolff book. So, I think we don't yet know how deep the political fallout from this will be. It clearly cannot help the president. It's a political disaster in many ways, but the perceptions of Trump are so set that I'm not sure it's going to budge people who like him and who don't like him. It's very set in stone in that way.</s>SOARES: We will have much more on the Rex Tillerson interview you were mentioning. Salena, you know, Donald Trump supporters have seen many media storm, and their man always seems to come out of this rather unscathed. How is this drama do you think being received by his base really?</s>SALENA ZITO, CNN COMMENTATOR: You know what, I think Stephen is absolutely correct. If you like Donald Trump, this is not going to move you at all. If you didn't like him and it confirms your biases, then you are going to love it and sort of soak it up with a glass of wine tonight when you are -- after dinner with your friends. I mean, one of the things that really sort of defined how I think people will see this -- I have talked to a lot of the Trump supporters that I've interviewed over the past couple of years. Last night, there were all of these photos of people lined up in Washington to buy the book, right? It's probably not a stretch to say that people in Washington, D.C. more than likely did not like Donald Trump. I think he lost by 80 points to Hillary Clinton in 2016. You know, you see them lined up. Now, I would be concerned if I saw people lined up in Sterling Heights, Michigan, or Wisconsin or Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, those key electoral areas that placed him in office. You know, I reached out to a lot of Trump supporters before I came on air tonight. Some of them who are mildly supportive of him, some of them who were very robustly supportive of him. None of them thought that this book would have any sort of impact on how they see him as president and how they see his successes, which have helped them in their lives currently.</s>SOARES: You are basically saying this basically does nothing? It changes nothing?</s>ZITO: Yes. I mean, I would argue -- even before this book came out and even today after the book came out, not much has changed in this country since November 8, 2016. If you liked him, you are still optimistic and hopeful. If you didn't like him, you still think he is sort of unfit for the office and does not deserve to be there.</s>SOARES: Stephen, we heard from the president outside the south lawn about 45 minutes ago. Let's take a listen to what he said and we will talk afterwards.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Hi, everybody. I'm going over with the senators, we're going to Camp David. We have a lot of things to work on, a lot of things to accomplish. The stock market is up very, very big today. We have set new records. I think they will be continued to set. The tax cuts are really kicking in far beyond what anyone thought. Numerous companies have today come out and announced that they're going to make big payments to their employees, something that nobody really had in mind. We're very honored by it, but the market is good. The jobs reports were very good. We think they are going to get really good over the next couple of months.</s>SOARES: The president speaking earlier, talking about the stock market, hitting 25,000 or so yesterday. Stephen, in terms of long term, let's look ahead. What does this mean, if anything at all, for the midterms and for the president's political standing?</s>COLLINSON: That was an interesting encounter on the south lawn of the White House there because it was unusually disciplined by the president. He basically did what a normal politician would do when there's a storm raging around him. He tried to stick to talking points and stress the more favorable parts of his political program. That's unusual. Often you see the president out there and he will start talking with reporters and he will go off on all sorts of tangents and he will give us enough news to talk about all weekend. Perhaps that's an indication that the president knows that he has to be disciplined, that he needs to get back to talking about his agenda, the tax cuts that just passed, some of the issues the Republicans want to tackle in the coming year, welfare reform, for example, reform of social programs. The problem is we know from experience that this doesn't necessarily last very long. What the book does and the president's reaction to the book and his explosions on Twitter over this week, it shows how difficult it's going to be for the Republicans in the midterm elections in November to keep the focus on what they want to keep it on when they have this sort of loose cannon president rolling around the decks creating huge distractions. I mean, this week the first week of 2018, has been even wilder in many respects than the weeks during his presidency last year.</s>SOARES: Yes. We are only in week one, aren't we? Salena, what about the Republican Party? I mean, is this creating -- do you think this book can create a major shift? How bloody do you think it can get?</s>ZITO: I don't think this book impacts the Republican Party. I mean, the Republican Party is a mess all by itself. This book is not going to change that so is the Democratic Party. Both of these parties are sort of, you know, fractured in all kinds of different ways, little ways that we don't often see in terms of -- if you are talking about Steve Bannon and if there's -- if he had enough sway within the party to take people to his side. I have always believed that Steve Bannon was overinflated, largely by my profession. I don't think that he had the sway over the voters that people believed that he did. Then part of thinking that that is what happened, that he had that was because it was really sort of difficult to understand how Trump won. I would argue that Trump had -- already had this in the bag. I wrote that in July of 2016 long before Bannon joined the party. Now the Republican Party does face some challenges going ahead. I can see a scenario where they could lose 40 House seats. I could see a scenario where it remains status quo. I think it's too early to sort of make those kinds of calculations and predictions. But I think that the party needs to sort of, you know, try to stay on message and work on holding suburban women. That's where Trump's tweets cause him problems. So that's, I think, who they need to sort of get back on solid ground within the party or within the districts that could be vulnerable in 2018.</s>SOARES: Well, we definitely saw him slightly more restrained in the south lawn. Let's see whether it applies to Twitter as well. Salena Zito and Stephen Collinson, thank you to you both. Have a wonderful weekend. Now, as Stephen was mentioning there, U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is opening up about his relationship with President Trump and speaking directly to CNN's Elise Labott about Michael Wolff's explosive new book. Elise joins me now live from Washington. With all (inaudible) interview America's top diplomat. Elise, great to see you. In this new book that we have been talking at great length about, President Trump has been described as child-like, aloof, a man who needs immediate gratification with many questioning his mental fitness. What does the secretary of state have to say about the way the president is being described in this book?</s>ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, you got to remember, Rex Tillerson is really the cabinet secretary or at least one of them along with Defense Secretary Mattis, who has spent the most time with President Trump. He is there two to three times a week. He speaks to him every day. He said the person that was described in Wolff's book is not the person that he knows at all. Take a listen to our conversation.</s>LABOTT: Everybody in this book, questions his mental fitness. Have you ever questioned his mental fitness? Describe your relationship with him because some people would think, through his tweets, it's not a very good relationship.</s>REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE: I've never questioned his mental fitness. I have no reason to question his mental fitness. My relationship with him -- it's a developing one. I remind people and I think it's well- known, that he and I did not know each other before he asked me to serve as secretary of state. So, we don't have a lot of history. So, part of this is us knowing -- coming to learn and understand one another.</s>LABOTT: Reflecting back, what have you learned about yourself and what might you do differently next year?</s>TILLERSON: You never stop growing as an individual. In terms of what I would do different, I'm going to build on my ability to communicate with the president better. My ability to communicate with others better. As I said, it's something I had to learn is, what is effective with this president? He is not a typical as presidents of the past. I think that's well recognized. That's also why the American people chose him. They were tired of what was being done in the past. They wanted something to change.</s>LABOTT: Secretary Tillerson said that the president he speaks to on a daily basis is engaged. He said it's not always I tell the president what I think, and he accepts it. It's not always I tell the president what I think, and he bats it down. He said it's a debate, a back and forth which he says that's the way that it should be. But certainly, said he found that the president was very engaged and didn't at all see a president that was bored. He said he never walked away from any meetings with world leaders as claimed in that book.</s>SOARES: Our viewers will know this, they're very different people, Rex Tillerson and the president of the United States, very different, let's say, management styles. Has the secretary of state ever doubted his judgment especially when it comes to policy?</s>LABOTT: Well, look, I think that this is a man who did not live in Washington. He is not a creature of Washington. He was a CEO. He's from Texas. He is not used to that kind of interagency debate. Look, as the top dog -- you know, the CEO of ExxonMobil, he was really the person who had the final word. Here, he admitted, the president has the final word here and I want to give him my advice. He is learning how to communicate with the president. I think he realized that he was very reflective in this interview, that he had a little bit of a rocky start getting his footing with the president. But now, I think he is looking ahead towards 2018. He said reports of his demise in the newspapers are unfounded. He said the president has never given him any indication that he will be relieved of his duties and that he intends to stay through the year.</s>SOARES: Fascinating interview. Let me ask you, though, because I know you also spoke to the secretary of state about North Korea and South Korea and their opening of communications. How does he see this development?</s>LABOTT: He said it's a little bit too soon to tell. He said, these conversations are mostly about how to navigate the Olympics and how maybe North Korea could take part in the Olympics and try to have a framework for the months ahead. But he said it could be an opening with North Korea. He doesn't really know. What I asked him is, was this the product of this pressure campaign? Is it because Secretary Tillerson has been asking for talks? Is it that the president is talking about his hand on the nuclear button? Is there a good cop-bad cop situation? Take a listen.</s>TILLERSON: I think the rhetoric that North Korea understands is, while it's our objective and the president's been very clear, to achieve a denuclearization through diplomatic efforts, those diplomatic efforts are backed by a strong military option if necessary. That's not the first choice. The president has been clear that's not his first choice. But it's important that North Korea as well as other regional players understand how high the stakes are in an effort to ensure our diplomatic efforts are fully supported.</s>LABOTT: Now, look, he has a much more moderate view, I think, than someone like Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley, who is saying that these talks, we don't take them seriously between North Korea and South Korea. We don't want to see a pretty picture. We want North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons before it comes to the table. Secretary Tillerson is saying, look, that's not realistic. They're not going to give up their whole nuclear program before they sit down. But he does say that North Korea has to agree that that's the end goal. So, the mechanics of how that happens and what is negotiated on how it takes place will be decided at actual talks. He said he needs to see a signal from the North Koreans that they're willing to go down this road. Otherwise, there's no use in talking he said.</s>SOARES: A softening of sorts there. Elise Labott, great to see you. Thanks very much. Now to a saga that's just as compelling at any page turner and that is the Russia investigation. CNN has confirmed that Donald Trump asked the top lawyer in the White House -- you can see there on the left -- to try to persuade Attorney General Jeff Sessions not to recuse himself from the investigation. For those of you watching outside the U.S., this might seem a bit complex. Here is why it's important. It's a possible example of Mr. Trump seeking to influence the Justice Department and could open him up to potential obstruction of justice claims. Our justice correspondent, Jessica Schneider is in Washington with more. Jessica, Jeff Sessions had been on the cross hairs as we know of President Trump repeatedly. Do bring us up to date with the latest details on whether this helps rebuild a case for obstruction of justice.</s>JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Isa. This is definitely another layer in Robert Mueller's obstruction of justice case. The first layer was the firing of FBI Director James Comey and whether or not the president was trying to interfere that way. Now this other layer is the fact that "The New York Times" is reporting that the president did direct Don McGahn to tell Sessions not to recuse himself from the Russia investigation. Here is how "The New York Times" puts it. They say the president apparently erupted in anger in front of several White House officials when Sessions did, in fact, recuse himself, since White House Counsel Don McGahn was unsuccessful in lobbying the attorney general to stay on in overseeing the Russia probe. So, "The New York Times" does report that the president repeatedly voiced his belief the role of Jeff Sessions, the attorney general, is to protect the president and that Jeff Sessions, in turn, should be protecting him. Of course, this is a theme that we have seen throughout this Trump presidency. This idea of loyalty and this idea that he expressed recently, just last week in the interview with the "New York Times," that the attorney general's job is to protect the president. When, of course, many law enforcement officials, we haven't heard directly from Jeff Sessions, but others, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, also the FBI director, saying that their job is to really protect the Constitution and the American people. So, we have seen this time and time again. The president saying that he believes he should be protected. That all of the other executive agencies, it's their job to protect him. So, really, Isa, this is a very important point for the Mueller probe. Because not only have they been looking at whether or not the firing of FBI Director James Comey back in May, may have been part of an obstruction of justice case against the president. But now we know that Mueller has this information, that President Trump specifically directed his White House counsel, who by the way is really in charge of protecting the office of the presidency, not necessarily the president himself. The fact that he went to Jeff Sessions and said, don't recuse yourself. This is from direct orders from the president. So, Mueller definitely has all of this information. This is playing into the investigation, his investigation about whether or not President Trump may have obstructed justice when he interfered, perhaps, in this Russia probe -- Isa.</s>SOARES: Of course, Jessica, you know, potentially it's not the crime. It really is the coverup, let's say. For those viewers who have been following this, it was no secret that the president was livid that Jeff Sessions recused himself. How damaging in this case then, Jessica, is this for the president? Does this make him vulnerable?</s>SCHNEIDER: Well, a lot of things the president has done seems to have made him vulnerable, but it really hasn't gotten to the president yet. He continues to rail on Twitter. He has called Jeff Sessions repeatedly beleaguered. This has been over several months now. It is true that this new bit of information about the president specifically directing Jeff Sessions through his White House counsel not to recuse himself, that probably does add another layer of obstruction here. What's interesting to note, Isa, is that when one of the legal deputies in the White House Counsel's Office, when they were looking into this, into whether or not the president could sort of play a role in this, whether or not the president could fire the FBI director, they came to the conclusion, they didn't tell the president this. But they came to the conclusion that, yes, the president does have the authority to fire the FBI director. They don't -- the president doesn't necessarily need good cause. It's all kind of uncertain territory here because the president under the Constitution has wide latitude. It's unclear whether or not Special Counsel Mueller would have a solid concrete case for obstruction of justice. Of course, all of this plays into it -- Isa.</s>SOARES: Of course, plenty to watch. Jessica Schneider, thanks very much. Now, meanwhile, federal authorities are actively investigating allegations of corruption related to the Clinton Foundation, that is the charity of Bill as well as Hillary Clinton. Prosecutors are looking into whether people who donated to the charity were promised political favors or special access to Hillary Clinton while she was secretary of state. We will keep on top of that story for you. Still to come, how a tiny chip inside your smartphone or computer could put your personal information at risk even on an Apple device. What tech companies are doing about it next. Erin McLaughlin joins me next. And to the coffee drinkers out there, would you be willing to pay more for your drink if it helped the environment? That's what British lawmakers want to happen. I will speak to one later in the show.