Kerry, Lavrov to Meet About Syria
ANDERSON: Well, let's stick with that election then, that U.S. election in November. The U.S. presidential candidates gave Americans a preview of how they would perform in the debates on Wednesday night. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump appeared separately in what was a forum hosted by NBC. And the event revealed stark differences in how the candidates intend to manage foreign policy and national security if they are elected president. Well, let's break down those differences with Fawaz Gerges. He is the chair of contemporary Middle East studies at the London School of Economics. And he is the author of the book "</s>ISIS: A History." Look, Fawaz, we are told that the world stands on the cusp of a deal on Syria at present. Should that deal be pulled off, maybe the presidential candidates don't have to worry about Syria. But that's not likely, is it? So what did you hear from them on Syria that impressed you, if anything?</s>FAWAZ GERGES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Becky, we know where Hillary Clinton stands. Hillary Clinton has made it very clear, she will not send boots on the ground either to Iraq and Syria. She called it the lessons of Iraq, the catastrophe of American intervention in Iraq. If you ask me how to summarize Hillary Clinton's approach to the Middle East, it will be more of the same of Barack Obama -- relying on local forces, using American air power, using American special forces. It's really the continuation of Barack Obama approach. With Donald Trump, Becky, truly, everything that he has said so far we do not know where he stands. We do not know whether he has foreign policy vision. Comes cross incoherent, ill-informed, lack of complexity, all over the map. On ISIS, I mean, it is disastrous. He says -- first, he says, it's going to take him 30 days to defeat ISIS. This is the height of ignorance, because we know that it's going to take years to defeat ISIS. Even if you dislodge ISIS from the major towns and cities in Iraq and Syria, ISIS will mutate into a terrorist organization. So we know where Hillary Clinton stands, we do not know where Donald Trump does, or if he has any ideas. My take on Donald Trump and the Middle East he is more of an isolationist than really an active or a coherent foreign policy.</s>ANDERSON: Fawaz, our chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour, my colleagues, spoke to the U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter, about the war in Syria and Washington's support for support for the Syrian Kurds, the very same Syrian Kurds who are Washington's ally, Ankara sees as the arch enemy, of course. So, there is an issue there. In an exclusive interview, she asked the secretary what the Kurds could expect from the U.S. going forward. We all understand this is incredibly complex. Have a listen to this.</s>ASH CARTER, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: The Syrian Kurds are an important ingredient in the Syrian Democratic forces, which we are supporting. They have been an important part of the strength. And they have been successful on the battlefield. And we have kept our commitments to them and they have kept our commitments to us. They are a valuable partner to us therefore. And we intend to continue to keep our commitments to them as they move towards Raqqa. Now, at the same time, we intend to keep our commitments to Turkey. And you are absolutely right and you understand this very well, they don't get along with one another. That happens. We understand very clearly what our interests are here, which are the defeat of ISIL. We communicate that to them and we work with both sides and we try to manage the tension.</s>ANDERSON: Are the Kurds about to be dumped once again by the U.S. as they have been let down in the past?</s>GERGES: I think so, Becky. I think at one point must be made very clear, the Americans do not support the Kurds' political aspirations and ambitions in Syria. This is the end of the story. The Americans have used the Kurds as the most effective force against Daesh or ISIL in Syria. Time and again American forces have made it very clear basically their relationship with the Syrian Kurds is very limited to the fight against ISIS. The reality is, Turkey is one of the most important allies of the United States. It has the second largest army in NATO. So, at the end of the day, the Americans have made up their mind, to support Turkey. And the Kurds really, they do not support the Kurds vis-a-vis any kind of federal system or even an autonomous entity in Syria.</s>ANDERSON: Right. We have been talking about the fact there is an election in 61 days, a presidential debate in something like two and a half weeks. But there is a U.S. election in 61 days. And we regularly talk about the two main candidates of course. And we heard perhaps loosely termed, their foreign policy positions in this town hall last night. There are two other characters around this presidential election, and one of them is the Libertarian presidential nominee, who stumbled over a question about this civil war in Syria during an appearance on MSNBC. I don't know if you have heard this, but if you haven't, have a listen to this exchange with Gary Johnson.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you do if you were elected, about Aleppo.</s>GARY JOHNSON, LIBERTARIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: About?</s>UNIDENITIFIED MALE: Aleppo.</s>JOHNSON: And what is aleppo?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are kidding?</s>JOHNSON: No.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aleppo is in Syria, it's the epicenter of the refugee crisis...</s>JOHNSON: OK. Got it. ot it.</s>ANDERSON: Well, Johnson since released a statement saying he made a human error and understands the dynamics of the conflict in Syria. The candidate says he also understands the significance of Aleppo. What's your response to that moment in time?</s>GERGES: I'm not surprised, Becky. I mean, in fact, Donald Trump is really very much ignorant about the Middle East. Whether he talks about ISIS, whether he talks about regional rivalries, whether he talks about sectarianism, he has no idea what's happening in the Middle East. I mean, think about it, Becky. He says he was against the Iraq war, and yet he criticizes President Barack Obama for pulling out of Iraq. He says wants to work with Putin on Syria, that he does not realize that any relationship with Russia in Syria basically provides ideological ammunition to ISIS. And it tells you about the level of ignorance about American foreign policy in the Middle East by two of the major candidates in the U.S. presidential elections.</s>ANDERSON: Fawaz, while we await the result of these talks, it feels like we've been here before, doesn't it? Well, the point is we have. It's like a deja vu, isn't it. But as we await the outcome of these talks on Syria in Geneva between the U.S. and Russia, I want to show you these new pictures and our viewers, showing the Damascus suburb of Dariyah (ph). Now, a report says thousands of people are leaving. And it's just one example of how local ceasefires and territory swaps are playing out on the ground. At a meeting on Wednesday a spokesman for the Syrian opposition bloc said, and I quote, we need a lasting solution to Syria's nightmare, not local ceasefires or temporary cessations that can be exploited by the regime and its Russian ally. I know, UN Syrian envoy actually had felt like these temporary cessations of violence were a good idea and had been preaching for them. Are these deals overall a good thing?</s>FAWAZ: Well, Becky, they are not local ceasefires, they are basically surrender on the part of the armed opposition factions, whether you are talking about earlier in Homs, then in Dariyah, and now in Madamiyah (ph) in Damascus, this is basically the Syrian government has forced the armed opposition in the suburbs of Damascus to surrender. There is no -- there are no local ceasefires. This tells you a great deal, Becky, about the balance of power, how the balance of power has shifted in Assad favors thanks to Russia's support, thanks to Iran's support and thanks to Hezbollah support. And this is why John Kerry and Lavrov, his Russian counterparts, are trying to find a deal, trying to have -- I mean a ceasefire throughout Syria, trying to basically come to a particular deal. My take on the talks between the American foreign secretary and the Russian foreign secretary is that even if they reach a deal in the next 48, how do you translate it into reality on the ground? It's very difficult.</s>ANDERSON: Fascinating. Fawaz, a regular guest on our show. We thank you. Live from Abu Dhabi, you are watching Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson for you. Coming up, India working to ban commercial surrogacy. We will discuss the consequences of that decision. That's next.