Interview with Lt. Col. Peter Lerner; Should Israel End Airstrikes?
COSTELLO: In the conflict between Israel and Hamas, the fight isn't just being waged on the battlefield but in the court of public perception. Take a look at this slickly produced video about Israeli airstrikes at Gaza made by the Israeli Defense Forces.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even buildings that appear civilian in nature are often used as rocket manufacturing facilities, weapon storage sites and terror command centers. Terrorists intentionally occupy civilian buildings knowing that the IDF does not want to harm the local population. When these buildings are used for terror activities, they become legitimate targets under international law. Although Israel makes every effort to minimize harm to civilians when striking these targets.</s>COSTELLO: Israel says it does try to minimize casualties but just this morning the U.N. says at least 19 people were killed when shells launched by the Israeli military rained down on a school functioning as a refugee camp. The IDF says in an early investigation that it was returning fire on rockets launched from that area. To talk about this and more we're joined by Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner, spokesman for the IDF. Good morning, sir.</s>LT. COL. PETER LERNER, ISRAELI MILITARY SPOKESMAN: Good morning.</s>COSTELLO: The state goal of this conflict was to take out these terror tunnels. But a shell from an Israeli tank, according to our John Vause, took out Gaza's only power plant. Is that true?</s>LERNER: We haven't concluded that that is actually carried out by the IDF. I personally looked in yesterday throughout the course of the day with our air force, with our navy and our ground forces on the ground, and we were unable to determine that it was actually an IDF round that struck that power plant. The IDF did not target the power plant in any way. So if there was a stray munition that struck the power plant, it was a mistake. But over the last three days, we've had numerous attempts by Hamas to pin various different attacks that they've originated from within Gaza on Israel. So it could be also an internal issue which -- of a mortar that landed there, that was launched and fired by Hamas. So this is the type of challenge that we face. And indeed it is complex.</s>COSTELLO: Is there still an investigation under way as to how this power plant was destroyed?</s>LERNER: Yes, we are looking into it.</s>COSTELLO: And the reason I ask you this is because Hamas says that the real goal here is to just to wipe out Gaza, to destroy its infrastructure. Has the mission changed?</s>LERNER: No. Absolutely not. And I'm stating what a terrorist -- globally labeled terrorist points out as a goal and, you know, going after their statements, I prefer not to go there. The IDF hasn't changed its mission. The mission is ongoing. It's to deal with these rockets and the tunnels which are threatening three quarters of the country, five million Israelis living under that direct threat. This is the reality we are facing and that is our stated and that is the goal we are carrying out on the ground. Indeed, the organization, Hamas, this bad terrorist organization that has carried out these attacks and, you know, we are currently in a four-hour hiatus to enable humanitarian supply, to enable the medical mission to go on, on the ground. Even as we speak now, I'm receiving more reports of more rockets being launched from Gaza. Every time we've stopped to facilitate the humanitarian needs of the Palestinian people, this terrorist organization has regrouped and continued and increased their attacks against us.</s>COSTELLO: Well, it's -- the other side told John Vause that these ceasefires are just a PR move by Israel because so many civilians are being killed. So they say they are not going to abide by these ceasefires any longer because they don't mean anything.</s>LERNER: They have not abided by any of the ceasefires that have been on the table since the last -- within the last three weeks, so when they are -- you know, the Egyptians suggest something, they say why don't we de-escalate, when the United Nations say let's have a ceasefire, when the Red Cross say let's hold a humanitarian hiatus for humanitarian needs, every time we've reached that junction, every time they have escalated, aggravated the situation, and carried out more attacks against us. When they had their own unilateral declared ceasefire, they used that day to regroup and attack Israel and they actually killed 10 Israeli soldiers on the day that they declared that they were carrying out ceasefire. Nine of them were actually in Israel, not even within the Gaza Strip. So it just goes to show the type of organization we're talking about. I think the main problem and perhaps to go back to the -- to how you open the interview, when we are framing this organization, this terrorist organization as that, we are -- this is not just a handful of men. We've met battalions of terrorists, 400, 500 terrorists that are using the civilian environment as a fortified position as an area where they will operate under ground, beneath the -- beneath the grounds, in tunnels, utilize tunnels to launch rockets. We've shared extensive footage that we've taken from the ground showing this. They utilize the buildings. I was speaking to commanders over the weekend and they are describing to me a reality where they would walk down the street and there would be seven consecutive houses each one of them bobby trapped. Across the street they would find a house that has no plaster on the walls but has flat screen TVs so that they can look, locate the IDF operations and then detonate those houses. This is the type of challenge that we are facing indeed and it's a huge challenge.</s>COSTELLO: Now that this electrical plant has been taken out, you know, a lot of people -- most people don't have electricity now. Sewage just pouring into the sea. They don't have clean water to drink. Many of the civilians here. So when will the fighting stop? What's the end game? When will Israel decide it's enough?</s>LERNER: Well, our mission is to sever those tunnels which are infiltrating into Israel and stop the rocket fire as much as possible. We are -- we feel that we are succeeding on both plans. The mission will go on as long as the government decides that we need to keep pressing this organization. You know, at the end of the day, Hamas, this organization, this globally labeled organization of terror needs to realize that it is not in their best interests to carry out attacks. You know, they have poured millions and millions of dollars into the ground in Gaza to build up this infrastructure of tunnels that have one purpose, terrorism against Israel. They have to realize that that investment was a bad investment. That the IDF is now making that investment null and void. They have to realize that to -- if you attack Israel, it has consequences. It has consequences for the organization. It has consequences for those who are perpetrating the attacks. It has -- consequences for those directing and organizing and leading the attack. This is the type of challenge we are facing today.</s>COSTELLO: Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.</s>LERNER: Have a good day.</s>COSTELLO: You too. Coming up at 10:30 Eastern Time, we'll take a closer look at what Hamas-run media is telling people in the Gaza Strip. And we'll talk to Senators Lindsey Graham and Chuck Schumer about the propaganda campaign being used by Hamas.