America Targets Terrorism: How Did Subash Garung Get by Private Security Workers?
ANNOUNCER:  THE POINT: TRACK BEING THE TERRORISTS, THE WORLD'S MOST WANTED. This man tried to get on a plane carrying knives, a can of mace and a stun gun.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you not know that you're not supposed to carry those types of things through the security?</s>SUBASH GARUNG, BREACHED SECURITY AT O'HARE AIRPORT: Yes, I know that, but it just got in the hurry. I forgot all these things to do.</s>ANNOUNCER: How did he get by the private security workers? And why was he set free after the first time he was arrested?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a wake up call for policy and procedure.</s>ANNOUNCER: Tonight's "FLASHPOINT" -- who dropped the ball? What about the rest of the 1,000 plus detainees? Should they be set free? Our POINT panel says they should. You decide. Whose bag is going in your plane and what's in it?</s>NORMAN MINETA, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: I want them to make the same commitment of resources and place some importance on the security of their passengers.</s>ANNOUNCER: They do it in Europe. Is it time to start matching bags with passengers on U.S. flights?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am a developer. I have been here for 11 years and wow! This is America.</s>ANNOUNCER: Plus, a visit to Dearborn, Michigan where 58 percent of the population is Arab-American. But after September 11, can an Arab-American be elected mayor?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would not take it to</s>ANNOUNCER:  THE POINT: TRACKING THE TERRORISTS. Now, from Washington, Greta Van Susteren.</s>GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Didn't anyone learn anything? Not the guy who went through airport security with a bunch of knives, not the security agents who let him through, not the people who arrested him and then let him go. Just how confident are you in airport security? Don't answer until you watch this report by CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti.</s>SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The arrest of 27-year-old man from Nepal at Chicago's O'Hare Airport Saturday night reveals not only a disturbing security breach, it also raises questions about how the FBI handled the matter. The incident began when security guards hired by United Airlines confiscated two pocket knives from Subash Garung at a screening checkpoint.</s>GARUNG: It just got in a hurry. I forgot all these things to do.</s>CANDIOTTI: It wasn't until Garung got to his gate that two United Airlines employees subjected Garung to a second check and according to police, made a frightening discovery -- inside his carry- on bag, seven folding lock blade knives with two-and-a-quarter to four inch blades, a stun gun and a container labeled "tear gas." The items were packaged with a camera in a white plastic bag. Two additional knives were later found in his checked luggage. Garung told CNN affiliate WLS it was all an accident. He collects knives and the stun gun was for protection.</s>GARUNG: I told you that I was living there in Chicago and I don't have any friend at the time. For two years, I was completely alone there and totally insecure and lonely there.</s>CANDIOTTI: Garung gave police this address, an apartment on Chicago's north side. By coincidence, it's the same apartment building listed among other addresses for Ayub Khan, a New Jersey man being held as a material witness in the September 11 attacks. Khan was one of two men taken off a train in Texas the day after the attacks with box cutters, a large amount of cash and hair dye. A government official tells CNN, Ayub Khan never lived in the building, but did get phone calls and credit card bills were paid for in there. But the building super tells CNN she no record of Khan, but she did remember Subash Garung.</s>MARIE CSIFFARI, APARTMENT SUPERINTENDENT: Because he stopped by Friday. He wanted a studio apartment. He used to live here with his brother until six.</s>CANDIOTTI: On Sunday, the FBI told CNN it interviewed Garung but insisted local authorities were handling the entire matter. Chicago Police charged Garung with two misdemeanors, released him on bond and ordered him to appear in court next month. After the story became public, the FBI rearrested Garung Sunday night. He appeared in federal court Monday on charges of attempting to carry a weapon on an aircraft. The FBI said Garung's story had been thoroughly checked out and in a statement added -- "There is no allegation this incident involves any suspected terrorist activity." Hardly consolation to eight now suspended airport security employees who failed to see the knives, stun gun or tear gas. Those security guards work for Argenbright. That company denied their employees had violated company procedures or FAA guidelines, saying there is no rule requiring a search of carry-on luggage after finding knives during a body search. Argenbright has a history of run-ins with the Justice Department. The company is currently on probation after putting untrained people, some with criminal backgrounds, at security checkpoints. Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta called the O'Hare incident "a failure of dramatic dimensions" and says the federal government will likely impose a substantial fine against United Airlines.</s>MINETA: We are going to hold the airlines and their screening companies accountable. The airlines cannot wash their hands of this duty and there should be no doubt as to our determination and our resolve.</s>CANDIOTTI: Mineta says United will be required to retrain its passenger screeners employed by Argenbright at O'Hare Airport.</s>CANDIOTTI: Argenbright, meanwhile, says it is now changing its procedures. From now on, hand luggage will be thoroughly checked if any suspicious item is found during a routine passenger search -Greta.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: Susan, Argenbright -- I mean it's interesting that they're making this change in policy. They've been under fire a lot. Are they the least bit concerned about it or do they just seem to think it's just sort of a mistake?</s>CANDIOTTI: Well, we tried to conduct an interview with Argenbright today, but they would only issue a statement to us. So those are some of the same questions we'd like to ask them, including, why it is that it's taken them only until now to revise its procedures that -- if for example, they find a pocket knife on someone during a body search, why is it only now that they are changing their policy to conduct a search of the hand carry-on baggage.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: How did these knives get through? I mean I get stopped with virtually anything when it goes through there. How did these knives get through?</s>CANDIOTTI: Well, they said that -- they did say that their employees saw something in his pocket when he passed through the magnetometer. And then the passenger admitted at that time that he had pocket knives, that he had these Swiss Army knives. And so, that's how they found that. However...</s>VAN SUSTEREN: But usually...</s>CANDIOTTI: ... they stressed that they didn't find anything when -- in his carry on luggage when it went through the x-ray machine. It didn't show up -- any of those seven knives.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: Why did he get the second search? How did that happen?</s>CANDIOTTI: Well, we do know that when he got down to the gate, United Airlines employees did a hand search there. At first, we were told it was a random check, but now, we have also learned from aviation officials that something called the Computer Assisted Passenger Profiling System is also used that tends to flag certain passengers if, for example, they buy a one-way ticket -- this man did -- or if they paid for their ticket in cash or for some other law enforcement reason. So that also appears to have entered into this.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: Boy! Interesting story. Susan Candiotti, thank you very much for joining us this evening. Any other time, you might call this story a comedy of errors. But these days, airport security is no laughing matter. Tonight's FLASHPOINT -- who dropped the ball? Let's ask my guests -- in Miami, Florida is defense attorney Jayne Weintraub, former federal prosecutor Scott Mendeloff is in Chicago. He's a veteran of the Timothy McVeigh case. And Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz is in Boston. His latest book, by the way, is called "Letters To a Young Lawyer." Alan, any outrage over this security breach?</s>ALAN DERSHOWITZ, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Well, I think who dropped the ball was Congress. Quite clearly, when you have profit screening and you have people motivated by the mighty buck, this is just going to happen over and over again. There's such an obvious resolution of this. There are many veteran FBI agents and Secret Service agents who are too old to do active duty. They come to my office every week and ask me questions about former students, which is an utter waste of time. They could send anybody to my office to ask me questions. These are the men and women well trained, highly skilled, who should be at our airports protecting our security under federal supervision, under federal employment. It's feasible. It's possible. The worst thing about what we heard yesterday is there are no rules that require a search of luggage if you find knives on the person. That's preposterous. And now we know that the bad guys have figured out ways of using ceramic knives and ceramic guns, which don't even show up on x-rays. Right now, we have the most porous security system in the world. I would hope that European countries would put up the kinds of posters we have that say, "Don't travel to America. American security does not meet minimal standards of safety."</s>VAN SUSTEREN: Jayne Weintraub, any outrage and who dropped the ball in your mind?</s>JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Who dropped the ball? Everybody has dropped the ball. The local officials dropped the ball by releasing him. Why did they let him go to begin with? Carrying a concealed weapon, it was still a misdemeanor. Why not consider the dangerousness to the community when releasing him? Again, lack of communication between local and federal authorities. Everybody is dropping the ball. We need to pick it up.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: Jayne, let me ask you about that question about releasing him. Do you think, if I went through security and had, you know, those two knives without -- forget about the stuff in the carry- on bag that the security never caught -- would I have been taken into custody?</s>WEINTRAUB: Probably not, no.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: Why?</s>WEINTRAUB: Because you don't match natural profile and because of who you are. And that's a terrible thing to say, but these are terrible times, Greta. And don't forget -- don't' forget what should happen or what would happen is different also. Should you be detained? Absolutely, you should be treated like anyone else. Don't you think you should be inconvenienced and questioned just a little bit after September 11? Don't you think that's worth you inconvenience and your -- to give up for security purposes? I think it is. I think that you should be detained you, even you, carrying two pocket knives.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: Scott Mendeloff, why was this man released when he was first stopped on Saturday night?</s>SCOTT MENDELOFF, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I, obviously, was not involved in it. But as far as I can tell, there was not sufficient communication coordination between the federal government with the information they had on the man's connection to Mr. Khan and the local officials. It was something that unfortunately does happen, especially in the case of this size.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: But Scott, you know -- I mean forget that. His student visa had expired. Wouldn't that have been a red tag?</s>MENDELOFF: Well, you know, you have to think about the people who are concerned about civil liberties as well here. We're hearing many Americans very concerned about the thousand-plus people that are in custody. They don't want everybody who could be in custody to be in custody. Here, we have an example of the government going to the other extreme and letting somebody go that they shouldn't have.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: But you know...</s>WEINTRAUB: Greta...</s>VAN SUSTEREN: ... here's -- go ahead, Jayne.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: Greta, I'm sorry. I mean what I was going to say is that we need to start focusing here on -- we need to prevent a terrorist act from occurring. We're not looking for fundamental fairness at a trial and what evidence would be presented. We need to stop and look in advance to prevent something from happening. What would have happened if this guy's visa had expired? Take a look at him, then his luggage would have been searched. What was he doing with a stun gun, mace and more knives?</s>VAN SUSTEREN: Alan, you know...</s>VAN SUSTEREN: Alan, there's, you know, some connection between this man and a material witness, a material witness who was pulled off a train on September 12 with box cutters. And the fact that his student visa has expired, is that enough for you to stop him or would you -- I mean to keep him or would you have let him go?</s>DERSHOWITZ: Well, of course, I think there's no question that he is subject, at least to reasonable detention. He has committed a felony. There seems to be no doubt about that. His excuse -- that he didn't know that he had them on him. That's ignorance of the law or mistake of fact of that kind, which is unreasonable, is not valid, if he's out of status. But you know we're only touching the tip of iceberg. When you get on plane, even if they check everybody on the plane, do you know what's in the baggage compartment of that airplane, what's in the baggage compartment of that airplane? And we're one of the only countries in the world that allow this, are uninspected luggage not matched to people who are flying. Flying in America today is dangerous.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: But Al, what difference does -- I know, but difference does it make to match a bag when -- what was the terrorism on September 11 were suicide people, you know, people who are willing to take down a plane with other lives and kill people in buildings. So what if they match...</s>DERSHOWITZ: Because not every -- because not every terrorist is a suicide bomber. And at least, you take two steps -- one, you try to prevent those who want to kill without being killed from doing this. You make it at least harder. And second, you subject every single bag to inspection, to x-ray inspection, to chemical inspection. Yes, it'll take a little bit longer. Yes, it'll cost a little bit more. But I think airline passengers are prepared to pay a little bit extra for safety. Right now, there is no exaggerating how unsafe our airlines are. The only reason we have not had massive terrorism on the airlines is because the terrorist have not yet opted to simply blowup airplanes the way they have in other parts of the world. If they...</s>VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Scott...</s>DERSHOWITZ: ... had decided to do with or without suicide bombers, we're in real trouble.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: Scott, is it enough of a connection that this man once lived at a building where a material witness had received, apparently, phone calls? Is that enough -- I mean -- or is it a weird coincidence?</s>MENDELOFF: Well, we don't know that, Greta. And if you're going to investigate this thoroughly, you can't take that advance, especially when you're talking about hundreds of Americans who could be killed as a result of a terrorist attack like this. So this was a failure to let this man be released. They may have been -- as I say, before they may have been concerned about civil liberties but you go to -- you have to run down all the leads. And I want to echo what Professor Dershowitz said. Having spent a significant part of my life investigating cases of terrorism, I'm very concerned about the state of the American -- security of the American airports vis-a-vis baggage. The fact that today Secretary Mineta apparently indicated that one in -- only one in five bags that go into a baggage hole at O'Hare Airport is checked is just inexcusable. And I don't -- the answer that well, it's quite expensive to purchase these machines, is laughable in a country of our size and our wealth.</s>VAN SUSTEREN: All right, we're going to take a quick -- we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to talk about whether or not this baggage problem, as well as O'Hare Airport's security breach, is tip of the iceberg. Plus, are we at war so the rules are different? Stay with us.</s>ANNOUNCER: Ahead on THE POINT, in the wake of the Chicago security breach, is it time to make security workers federal employees? Plus, only in America, but what about this year?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About six or seven young Arab kids ran out of the school during a recess and came up to my car -- "Hammoud, Hammoud, we are with you."</s>ANNOUNCER: THE POINT is coming right back.