Pregnant Woman Taken to the Ground by Police
BALDWIN: Want to talk about another case of resisting arrest here. This time happening in California. An African-American mother dropping her daughter off at school didn't give the police officer her full name. However, she did reveal her condition. She's eight months pregnant. Yet, that didn't stop these two officers -- this is Barstow, California -- from putting her on her stomach as they arrested her for failing to give her identity. This happened after this other woman had complained -- a white woman -- had complained this pregnant woman had confronted her and threw something at her. The incident happened in January. But the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union, just released the officer's body cam video. Here's a piece of the clip. The whole thing runs in total like 11 minutes. Just a warning, it's tough to watch.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not giving you my name.</s>UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Actually, I do have the right to ask you for your name.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Let me make sure. What's your name?</s>UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: How long is it going to be for you to make sure?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me make sure because I'm not about to get harassed by the police.</s>UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Well, you know what, ma'am, I have every right to ask you for your name.</s>UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Michelle, what? What is your name?</s>UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Ma'am, I'm going to give you two minutes.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't touch me. Don't touch me.</s>UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Ma'am.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do not touch me. Do not -- I'm pregnant. Do not touch me. Do not touch me! What the</s>UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Ma'am.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm pregnant!</s>UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: So why are you resisting, ma'am? Why are you resisting?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm pregnant, please. Please!</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please! I'm pregnant.</s>UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: OK. Get up, ma'am.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't. I'm pregnant. I'm on my stomach.</s>UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Why are you resisting?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because you guys are stupid! You all are stupid! Stop!</s>BALDWIN: And that is just a piece of it. With me now, I have Correspondent Jean Casarez; also CNN political commentator, Marc Lamont Hill; and CNN law enforcement analyst, Harry Houck. Wow. My first question, when I watched the entire 11 minutes, from start to finish -- and, Harry, my first question to you, when the officer was asking for her name, she wasn't giving it. Then she gave her first name. Then you hear him saying you're resisting. She's stepping away. In the state of California, was that arrest justified?</s>HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, the police officer has to believe it is. He's got to reasonably believe that this arrest is justified. I saw this whole video. They should have let this go. There was nothing here. Some white woman complaining about a black woman, had a little argument, somebody threw something. Went over, spoke to both of them, OK, let this go. But I think what the police officer did was he tried to ascertain the name in the event there's some kind of civil litigation might go on. I think the officer thought that he'd be able to go over and ask her name and information, then give it to this woman. Then I would have got the other woman's information and given it to her. This way, they can both go to court and figure this out.</s>BALDWIN: Why -- I'm just stuck on -- listen, why put handcuffs on this woman? Why place her on her eight-month pregnant belly?</s>HOUCK: See, what happened was -- who escalated this whole thing here though? The woman did. She escalated the situation. When you're in a situation like that, right or wrong, if a police officer comes up to me and tells me, whether he's right or wrong, if I'm under arrest, I am putting my hands behind my back. That's what you have to do.</s>MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, you don't.</s>HOUCK: Yes, you do.</s>LAMONT HILL: You just said right or wrong.</s>LAMONT HILL: No, no, no. Let me finish.</s>HOUCK: You have to submit to a police officer on the street.</s>LAMONT HILL: Even if they're wrong?</s>HOUCK: Even if they're wrong, yes. Then what happens is -- because who makes the determination if the officer is wrong or right? A judge has to do that. If the officer believes he's right, he's going to make a decision to make an arrest. Now if he's wrong, we go to the courts. You sue the police department. The cop gets disciplined. That's the way it goes.</s>BALDWIN: So even though if this woman is saying, hang on a second, I dropped my kid off at school, I was just walking. Maybe there was some kind of back and forth with this initial woman we didn't play in this piece of the video. Still, still, you're saying she should have gone ahead and put her hands behind her back.</s>HOUCK: When the officer said she was under arrest, she needs to do that. Now what she does is put her own child's life in danger by resisting.</s>LAMONT HILL: Did he say "you're under arrest"?</s>HOUCK: Yes, I think he did.</s>LAMONT HILL: I didn't hear that on the tape. We're adding things that aren't there.</s>JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, can I talk about the law?</s>LAMONT HILL: Please.</s>BALDWIN: Jump in.</s>CASAREZ: The law in the state of California is that an officer can ask for your name if he has reasonable suspicion that a crime took place. Now, that officer actually told the white woman -- this is a school parking lot where this took place. He told the white woman, I don't see any crime here at all.</s>LAMONT HILL: Right.</s>BALDWIN: You see that in the video.</s>CASAREZ: But he's talking about damage to vehicles when he said that. It appears there was a road-rage type of situation, but it wasn't a highway. It was private property. Then she refuses -- well, she actually gave her first name. She said Michelle.</s>BALDWIN: And she brings up race. The reason we're even interjecting this. The second woman does bring it up.</s>CASAREZ: But she refuses to really give her name. The officer then does have a right to arrest her. Whether it's a legal arrest of not, just as he said --</s>BALDWIN: All right.</s>CASAREZ: -- is for a judge to determine.</s>BALDWIN: Marc, jump in.</s>LAMONT HILL: The point I've been trying to make is this becomes emblematic of the problem if we say it's her fault for having the audacity to be upset or to resist an unlawful arrest of unfair treatment, differential treatment.</s>HOUCK: You can't -- she doesn't know if it's an unlawful arrest.</s>LAMONT HILL: Just listen to what I'm saying.</s>HOUCK: OK.</s>LAMONT HILL: We're not making a legal analysis. The question was who is responsible for escalating this. You're saying, if the woman had not done "X," "Y" would not have happened.</s>HOUCK: Right.</s>LAMONT HILL: I'm saying, had the police not done "X," "Y" would not have happened. Let's choose the person that did the unlawful arrest. Let's choose the person that engaged in differential treatment. Based on what we saw, the woman didn't do anything wrong. Neither did the other woman.</s>HOUCK: She was seven months pregnant. She knows she's got a child in her belly.</s>BALDWIN: Right.</s>HOUCK: Why is she resisting arrest, making it hard? Because you can hear the police officer saying, don't resist arrest.</s>BALDWIN: How about --</s>BALDWIN: Hold on. Hold on. From a police perspective -- I honestly don't know the answer. Let's say it was absolutely justified, she needed to be arrested. As an officer, and she's saying over and over, I'm pregnant, why place her on her belly? I'm just asking.</s>HOUCK: That happened as a result of the arrest. They had to put her down to get her handcuffed.</s>LAMONT HILL: On her stomach? On her stomach?</s>HOUCK: How are you going to get handcuffed behind the back? You have to go on her stomach. And she's fighting. You can't specifically put her down a certain way.</s>BALDWIN: So that is police training?</s>HOUCK: No --</s>BALDWIN: I'm just asking. I'm asking.</s>CASAREZ: The police officer had a body camera --</s>HOUCK: And the police officer had a body cam. He thought everything he was doing was correct.</s>LAMONT HILL: That's what is problematic for me. I'm not saying these officers came in and said, hey, let's go to the parking lot and harass somebody. I think they actually think they're right. That's the problem. It's a structural problem. It's not --</s>HOUCK: We don't even know if they're wrong yet.</s>BALDWIN: Hang on. Let me jump in. This is what Barstow police -- they've launched an internal review. They wouldn't comment further to CNN. Here's what they told out affiliate out of L.A., quote, "The city of Barstow has received the video link regarding Charlena Cokes' (ph) arrest. It is apparent that she actively resisted arrest. This incident was in no way racially motivated as implied by the ACLU. We affirm our police department's commitment to protect and serve all our residents."</s>HOUCK: I agree. They were correct. You have to submit to a police officer. You must. That's the law.</s>BALDWIN: No matter what?</s>HOUCK: No matter what.</s>BALDWIN: Yeah.</s>HOUCK: You have to submit because you -- that's going to happen. That's why. Because the officer is thinking he's within the law of doing --</s>BALDWIN: What more do we know about this woman?</s>CASAREZ: She was dropping her daughter off at school. The white woman works at the school. The African-American woman was dropping her daughter off. And --</s>BALDWIN: She said there was some kind of issue with the parking situation, tossing something at a car.</s>CASAREZ: Hitting the car. She said she was pounding on the car.</s>HOUCK: The cop had a lot of experience.</s>CASAREZ: Don't they have to write a police report?</s>HOUCK: Right. I'm sure they did.</s>CASAREZ: Don't they have to put a name on the police report? Do they have a right to get somebody's name?</s>CASAREZ: They would be --</s>HOUCK: well, if there was no crime, you don't really have to do it. Even just as police officer, use the spirit of the law, as they like to call it here in New York. You say, listen --</s>LAMONT HILL: Everyone go home.</s>HOUCK: Just take care, guys. That's what I would have done.</s>BALDWIN: Marc, you get the final word. We've got to go.</s>LAMONT HILL: This is a fundamental problem. Whether it's determined a legal arrest or not, what I'm saying is this is a culture of problematic policing. As you said, initially, this did not have to happen. The fact it does happen is troublesome to me. And, no, I don't know what's in the officer's head. Every time we have a story like that, it's usually a black person. Could it be a wild coincidence? Maybe black people are really bad in not getting arrested? But to me, something is at stake here that we need to dig more deeply on.</s>BALDWIN: Marc Lamont Hill, Harry Houck, Jean Casarez, thank you, all, so much. Next, police say this man was drunk when he tried to fly a plane with his own son inside while the air traffic controller tried desperately to stop him from taking off in the first place. Stay with me. You're watching CNN.