Obama Administration Accuses Suskind of Distorting Facts
KURTZ: Ron Suskind had all kinds of cooperation from the White House for his new book on the administration, interviews of plenty of top advisers, and nearly an hour with the president himself. But it turns out the Obama team doesn't much like the book and has pushed back hard, with some top officials denying they said what the book quotes them as saying.</s>JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What we know is that very simple things, facts that could be ascertained, dates, titles, statistics, quotes, are wrong in this book. So I think that -- in fact, one passage seems to be lifted almost entirely from Wikipedia in the book. That analysis is wrong. Tim Geithner, who lived it, just told you that it bears no resemblance to the reality he lived.</s>KURTZ: The book is "Confidence Men: Wall Street, Washington, and the Education of a President." And Ron Suskind joins me now here in the studio. Welcome. You spent a couple of years on this book. As I said, you had a lot of cooperation, a lot of access. And now the White House has mounted this campaign -- there's no other word -- this campaign against you. This must tick you off.</s>RON SUSKIND, AUTHOR, "CONFIDENCE MEN": Well, you know, the fact of the matter is, Howie, when the book was completed through this summer, I got a sense that the reaction would be different than what it might have been in the spring. When we were coming at the end of the reporting, after the interview with the president and the final areas of reporting, the president was sort of riding a very strong wave. I think the White House felt very good about many of these disclosures being in a part of the presidency that they viewed as over, that the president had evolved and moved past it. That's what he says strongly.</s>KURTZ: But then things got worse for the president.</s>SUSKIND: Right. That looked like a false spring very quickly by the end of the book. And what I did at the finish of the book, as I've pointed out, is I went back to everybody again and again to say, look, this is what the book says next to your name. Let's talk about it so you understand and you're ready for that. And frankly, the White House knew everything that was in the book prior to publication.</s>KURTZ: There is a lot of reporting in this book. You talked to a lot of people. You have got internal memos. When the White House press secretary stands up there and says you're plagiarizing a passage, I mean, that is a concerted effort to discredit you.</s>SUSKIND: Yes. You know, I've had a lot of pushback. Sometimes we get a lot of pushback when these books come out. They pull back a curtain on something that heretofore has not been revealed. Certainly Bob Woodward has had his examples, other reporters and writers as well. I, during the Bush era, on all three books, certainly the first book, which really was similar to this in pulling back the curtain of the Bush administration, they were vigorous. If you recall, they filed a frivolous federal investigation against me and Paul O'Neill, which of course dissolved a few months later.</s>KURTZ: So you're used to this. But hasn't the Obama team succeeded in this respect -- when your book first came out, the headlines were about dysfunctional administration, president -- inexperienced president not ready to govern, and women in the White House felt that they were being given short shrift. Now all of the stories and interviews, and I guess we're doing it here to some extent, are about the credibility of Ron Suskind. So was this a tactic to make you the issue?</s>SUSKIND: I think that as people read the book, they're often surprised to say this is not sensational, this is very well sourced. It's complete, it's credible, and in the book, there are long passages of responses from the key actors to all of the major disclosures. That was part of the idea of making the book complete as a text in and of itself. I think much of the attacks, they came prior to the book being in people's hands. Now that it is in people's hands, already that is turning.</s>KURTZ: But does it disappoint you that some of the criticism from people in this administration has been so personal towards you?</s>SUSKIND: You know, Howie, you know as well as anybody it's a tough town. Many of the folks who were praising me mightily during the Bush era -- these are the most definitive works on George Bush, this is the historical record -- now are doing their best to struggle really to discredit those books and discredit this book.</s>KURTZ: Are you suggesting it's ideological, that some people who were liberals are perfectly happy to have you go after President Bush and not so happy to have you go after Barack Obama?</s>SUSKIND: Well, certainly many commentators have pointed that out. That's not just me. I think that's part of the way this works. When they look at this president, I think that this book will help people on balance get involved in a more thorough analysis of how we got here. This is a difficult time for everyone in America. We're feeling enormous pressure. Is America in a decline? This economic nightmare is growing, it seems, and I think the point of the book is to look at that clearly so we can have a more fulfilling and more productive discussion, and I think that's already happening.</s>KURTZ: Let's get into some of the details. The most attention has turned on Anita Dunn, the former White House communications director, because of a fairly explosive thing that you quoted her as saying, that the White House would be in court for hostile workplace in terms of the attitude toward women. You actually played a tape of your interview with Anita Dunn for a "Washington Post" reporter, and here's the full quote --</s>SUSKIND: Yes.</s>KURTZ: "I remember one I told Valerie" -- that's Valerie Jarrett, White House official -- "if it weren't for the president, this place would be a court for hostile workplace." In the book, you took out the six words, "If it weren't for the president," which seems to me to change the meaning of what Anita Dunn said.</s>SUSKIND: Right. I said and "The Washington Post" has reported that that was at Anita Dunn's request. At the end of the process, I called back Anita -- as I said, I called back all the key sources. I talked to her about the quote. She was quite vigorous in saying, this is the way I think this the quote is most appropriate to what I believe as it appeared in the book. The issue about the president per se is one that I said, "Anita, I never was sure what you meant by that. If it's a hostile workplace and the president is not involved, as you and others have said, what difference would it make if you were there or not?" She says, "You're right, that doesn't make sense." So the point --</s>KURTZ: Whether she asked you to or not, taking those six words out really changes the impact of what she is saying. Why didn't you as an author give us the full quote so we can make up our minds?</s>SUSKIND: Well, the fact is, Howie, is that with a quote like that, you press the subject. And you say, is this what you really mean? And if so, how? And if not, why not? So that they can stand up and take ownership of this quote when the lights come up. This was something I did for Anita Dunn. And this is the quote that she accepted, to say this is what I truly believe. The core of the quote about it being a hostile workplace does not change, but her point was that, I said it in present tense in the spring. Looking back, this is true to what I believe. And that's how the quote appear in the book.</s>KURTZ: Well, she continues to be unhappy with your rendering of it.</s>SUSKIND: But I think that issue is now settled.</s>KURTZ: Christina Romer, former economic adviser, also talking about the way the White House staff, the boys, so to speak, treated women. "I felt like a piece of meat after some of the meetings." Christina Romer now says, "I can't imagine saying that."</s>SUSKIND: Yes. Well, Christina and I talked for many, many hours. She said many, many things. When the first call came on that, I simply don't think she remembered. I talked to her later. She didn't remember saying that. So she said, "I can't imagine saying that." Christina said many, many things that were in line with that quote, or in many cases, even more dramatic than that quote. But again, this is part of the pushback that's happening, where the White House is calling everybody and saying, are you loyal to the president? Certainly say something now, which in some ways kicks up dust about this book that we feel hurts him.</s>KURTZ: Hold it. You're making a serious allegation. You're saying that some of these former officials are disputing what they said to you because they're under pressure from the Obama White House, not because they disagree with your rendering of events.</s>SUSKIND: In a moment like this, when the president is seen under attack by a book in which they are a main character, they're going to feel pressure, period. They're going to feel pressured by simply living in America. At a moment like this, they do get calls. I'm not saying they did get calls. I don't know that. But it is indisputable that that's what happens. That's the way the world works.</s>KURTZ: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, as you know -- you have an account in the book that he basically dragged his feet on coming up with a plan to restructure Citigroup, which was in deep financial trouble.</s>SUSKIND: That's right.</s>KURTZ: He denies this vigorously. That seems like a pretty substantive disputes between your account and what the treasury secretary says.</s>SUSKIND: I would direct readers to two pages in the book from a long-taped interview with the treasury secretary. Again, prior to publication, when people were confronted with the disclosures, right up to the president, where Tim responds step by step to what the evidence indicates in terms of the Citibank issue and the Citibank incident. I think it's important people are now moving, reporters are now moving to the Pete Rouse memo which is there in full in the book, which says that Treasury, in cases, in instances, relitigated, meaning they essentially ignored or tried to re-debate issues when they disagreed with the president. I think the area of coverage now is asking the White House, what are those instances, how many instances, in what areas, on what issues? Because, interestingly, it shows where the president wanted to do something, but Treasury, for whatever reason, was not moving based on the president's will.</s>KURTZ: I just want to explain that Pete Rouse is a top White House official --</s>SUSKIND: Yes. Sorry.</s>KURTZ: Let me move to the broader question. Why would -- because there's a lot more here in the book than these incidents.</s>SUSKIND: Absolutely.</s>KURTZ: But these incidents are helping you sell the book, and the controversy, let's face it, helps you sell the book. Why would these top government officials, people very experienced at dealing with the press, tell you over a period of time these negative and sometimes embarrassing things despite even given the fact that, you know, the White House was cooperating and the president gave you an interview? Why would they say this, knowing one day it would be between hard covers?</s>SUSKIND: Well, you know, their own context to many things in the book -- there are many things in the book that I think are positive about the president. The president finishes with a great burst, I think, in the last third of the book, which was part of the goal of the book, is to show the evolution of this man, frankly, across four years. And when people talk for hour after hour about their actual experiences, it is a truth that they own, they will tell you everything they know.</s>KURTZ: But are they confiding -- you're not their friend. You're there as a journalist.</s>SUSKIND: Sure.</s>KURTZ: And yet, they are saying things, and you say they are saying things --</s>SUSKIND: Of course.</s>KURTZ: -- that ordinarily they wouldn't tell reporters.</s>SUSKIND: We develop long-source reporter relationships that often stretch across years. And I have those relationships, those source reporter relationships -- again, common for all reporters -- with many, many sources, all of whom live at the same time and the same experiences.</s>KURTZ: And they know you're not writing this for the next day's paper or for the next week's magazine.</s>SUSKIND: Exactly.</s>SUSKIND: And I think that's a key advantage that all of we book writers understand, is especially an advantage at a time when there's a lot of access journalism. If you write something bad in a newspaper, you may lose access the next day. We can spend years in some cases getting at least a first draft of a record of this period.</s>KURTZ: All right. Ron Suskind, thanks very much for coming in this morning. We appreciate it. Coming up in the second part of RELIABLE SOURCES, clashing careers. Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist Connie Schultz talks about why being married to a senator led her to give up her longtime jobs at "The Cleveland Plain Dealer." Then, the blogger who makes political predictions based on nothing but statistics. Nate Silver of "The New York Times" on his "538" blog and why he says media coverage often misses the boat.