Interview With Julian Epstein, David Bowser
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: The big buzz around Washington, there's even an AP write through about this, is Donald Rumsfeld about to get fired? There's been a lot of speculation about the defense secretary's future. Also, the White House announces a new PR strategy for Iraq. And the president's poll numbers are hitting record lows. We like to see things from both sides, so we're going to bring in Democratic strategist Julian Epstein. And from the Republican side, David Bowser. Good to see both of you. Thanks for joining us.</s>JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Nice to be here with you.</s>DAVID BOWSER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Nice to be here.</s>LIN: You guys have seen the stories. And Condoleezza Rice, appointed by the president, to oversee the rebuilding of Iraq. Donald Rumsfeld does not get that critical memo, doesn't know about an advance, but rather grouchy about that. Is his head on the block, do you think, David?</s>BOWSER: Oh, I doubt it. They seem to be working together pretty well as a team. And he really didn't indicate he had any problems with what's been going on.</s>LIN: Julian?</s>EPSTEIN: No, I don't think this is a big deal. It happens a great deal in administrations. In fact, Condi Rice's job as the NSC adviser is to coordinate agencies. The problem for the administration now is that they're running into a perfect storm. It's not just the in fighting that's going on between Condi Rice and Rumsfeld and Powell and Rumsfeld. It's the fact that there's a criminal investigation going on into the White House. It's the fact that weapons of mass destruction haven't been found. There's more chaos in Iraq than anybody predicted. The economy's imploding. This is an administration that in many people's views, the wagons are starting to fall off. And I think the big problem for the administration was in Dick Cheney's speech yesterday, where he said we reject all the criticism. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. And that's always a sign of trouble for any politician, any administration when the poll numbers are headed downwards.</s>LIN: Well, but at the same time, Julian, I mean...</s>EPSTEIN: ...for the administration was in Dick Cheney's speech yesterday, where he said we reject all the criticism. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. And that's always a sign of trouble for any politician, any administration when the poll numbers are headed downwards.</s>LIN: Well, but at the same time, Julian, I mean, Donald Rumsfeld has even said look in a 24 hours news environment, when one bad incident is reported, it's repeated time in and time again. And in the echo effect, the whole story gets distorted.</s>EPSTEIN: That's exactly right. And I think this story about Rumsfeld is exaggerated. The problem is when you have the compounded effect of not just that story, this thing about the White House leak, where it looks like it was an effort to get back at critics of the administration who have rightly pointed out that the evidence of weapons of mass destruction was thin. It's the fact that people believe overwhelmingly in the polls right now that the administration doesn't have a plan for the peace in Iraq. It's these kind of cumulative things...</s>LIN: Yes.</s>EPSTEIN: ...when you put that together with the fact that people don't have any faith in the administration's economic plan...</s>LIN: Oh.</s>EPSTEIN: And then the administration saying well we think everything's right. We don't think anything's wrong. That's what Dick Cheney said yesterday.</s>LIN: David? You got to get in there.</s>EPSTEIN: That's where the mistake is.</s>BOWSER: Well, it's clear that times are changing over in Iraq. And what's going on is we're shifting now from a military phase into a rebuilding phase. They're opening schools. They're introducing currency, just six months after the fall of the statue. And Donald Rumsfeld is Secretary of Defense. And now they need to bring in a whole team to build infrastructure and to continue proceeding down the road. They're having tremendous success over in Iraq.</s>LIN: But David, what do you say to the American families who are losing their sons almost on a daily basis there? How do you explain that?</s>BOWSER: Well, we're dealing with an unstable part of the world. And we're trying to bring peace and democracy and freedom to a part of the world that's never had it before. And to do that, it's going to require patience, and moving forward in integral steps. And that's what we're seeing right now. We're seeing successes. We're seeing movement forward. And it may not be the sexiest headlines to have a school open or to have new money instituted, or investment of foreign capital, but it is. It's progressing forward. And as the story starts to come out of the successes that they're having over there, then we're going to see more and more movement toward supporting the initiatives that are being put out by the White House. And just to say that the economic policy is not working is clearly not true.</s>LIN: So Julian...</s>EPSTEIN: Look, I think that there's nothing more important to our country than the Bush administration actually succeeding in Iraq, and bringing a modern industrial -- a modern democracy into that kind of a feudal region. The problem is one of the administration's credibility right now. People are -- I think -- are very troubled by the allegations that the White House had leaked the identity of a CIA employee against the law. People are very...</s>BOWSER: I'm not sure if that was the White House.</s>EPSTEIN: People are very troubled by the fact that the administration seems not to have been quite candid on this question of weapons of mass destruction. People are quite disturbed by the fact that the administration has taken conflicting positions on the need to build an international coalition. It's really an issue of whether the people believe that -- in the administration's credibility. And when Dick Cheney gets up yesterday and says all of the critics are wrong, everything we've done is right, I think that just hastens the problem.</s>LIN: David, do you think that explains the low poll numbers that we're now seeing for President Bush?</s>BOWSER: Well, no, what we're seeing is a change in direction here. I mean, we're no longer involved in an out and out war. We're involved in building a country and installing peace and in a democracy. And as the times change, as the focus moves forward, I mean this administration is moving forward with success. And they've got success to point to. I've talked to several members of Congress who have been over there the past couple months, both -- on both sides of the aisle. And bipartisanly, they agree that there is a tremendous building of not only success among building infrastructure, but among the people of Iraq, who are happy that Saddam's gone, and happy that the progress of their -- that's being made over there. And just with Cheney coming out, and Condoleezza Rice coming out, and Donald Rumsfeld coming out, these are all the key players who are involved in this whole process.</s>LIN: All right.</s>BOWSER: And to have them all out there, pushing forward our plan, is what needs to be done.</s>LIN: All right, well they're pushing right away. Thank you very much, David Bowser. I'll give you the last word on that. Julian Epstein, thank you very much for being here.</s>EPSTEIN: Thanks for having us.</s>BOWSER: Thanks for having us.</s>LIN: OK. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com