Deadly Gun and Grenade Attacks in Indonesia
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.</s>CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Our breaking news this morning, a deadly terror attack targeting Westerners in Jakarta. A series of bombs set off. Police caught in a gun battle with those terrorists. Good morning, everyone. It is 30 minutes past the hour. I'm Christine Romans. This is</s>EARLY START. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm John Berman. The breaking news this morning, a series of coordinated gun and bomb attacks in the heart of the Indonesian capital, Jakarta. It happened overnight. Seven people are dead. The latest information we have from Indonesian officials is that of those seven people killed, five of them were attackers. Two civilians. So far, there has been no claim of responsibility but there are a lot of questions this morning if there was any ISIS involvement. CNN's Kathy Quiano is in Jakarta for us and joines us. Kathy, what's the very latest?</s>KATHY QUIANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, police have just confirmed that indeed five people, or five attackers were killed in the attacks and two civilians including a Dutch national also was killed in the attack. More details of this horrific and shocking terror attack in Jakarta, the first major one in six years in the capital from the police. They said that the first attack happened about 10:55 am inside a Starbucks coffee shop in an office building with a commercial establishment attached to it. There were two other attackers who then dragged two foreigners, a Dutch national and an Algerian, brought them to a parking lot and shot them there. Police responded and another two attackers responded by throwing grenades at them. That's why we're seeing multiple numbers of casualties and victims in this really horrific and shocking attack that's put the city on edge here. The police are also on a manhunt, on the search for more suspects maybe involved in this terror attack in Jakarta. John --</s>BERMAN: There could be people still on the loose. Kathy, just set the scene for us about exactly where this happened in Jakarta? The area itself, I know there was a Starbucks, a Burger King, a police stand, is this an area where there are frequently Westerners, possibly where you would go if you wanted to hit Western targets?</s>QUIANO: Well there is a building across the Starbucks which houses some U.N. offices, the U.N. headquarters here. It's just right across from Starbucks. If the attackers were doing any surveillance, they would have known that foreigners frequented this place. A lot of Indonesians as well go to this area. It's a very busy intersection. A lot of commercial establishments, restaurants open 24 hours, so any time of the day it's very, very busy but this was in the middle of the day and certainly very shocking. And now police confirming that Westerners were indeed targeted in the attack. This is something. It's another wake-up call for Indonesia and the Indonesian president is very serious about this. He has already ordered security officials to go after this network, the perpetrators of this horrific attack. John --</s>BERMAN: Five attackers killed at this point. Obviously the response did appear to be very quick. Kathy Quiano for us on the streets in Jakarta. Thank you so much.</s>ROMANS: Christian Hubel works in a skyscraper with a clear view of the site of the attacks. We spoke to him a short time ago from Jakarta. This is what he told us.</s>CHRISTIAN HUBEL, WITNESS: We heard a big noise, like it sounded like an explosion but at first, we thought it was from the construction site next to our building. But then we realized that there was a huge smoke cloud on the street, like 500 meters away, and then there was a second and a third and up to five or six explosions we heard within a few minutes, and then we realized, oh, there must be something going on and it must be really serious.</s>ROMANS: How long did this go on? Was this a period of minutes? Was it a half an hour? How quickly were authorities on the scene?</s>HUBEL: The explosions were maybe within 30 minutes but the whole scene looked like it was going on for at least two hours because when the police arrived and a lot of people were standing around the scene, suddenly everybody was running away. So it looks like maybe there was still one terrorist or something like that. And then after, it took maybe two hours until the police now is cleaning up the whole scene.</s>ROMANS: -- the breakdown the developments in Jakarta. I want to bring in CNN military analyst Cedric Leighton, former member of the joint chiefs of staff, former deputy director at the NSA. Thanks for joining us this morning with this breaking news. New details, seven dead. We are told five are the attackers. What does that tell you, the numbers we are looking at here right now, tell you about this attack and all five attackers, we think it's five attackers, they are looking for others but they think it's five attackers, all five attackers are dead?</s>CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Christine, it tells you that there's a very significant police response there and it's interesting to note the number of minutes that your eyewitness on the ground there spoke about. There probably were a lot of things going on that he couldn't see but it tells me that there was a very rapid response by the Indonesian forces that the death toll was kept as low as it is. And as tragic as this is, but it was still managed in a way in which the terror attacks were isolated and their effect was isolated which is really the most important thing in such a crowded area.</s>BERMAN: Now what about the methods themselves, Cedric? What did they tell you? A coordinated gun attack, with explosives as well, multiple attackers, multiple targets.</s>LEIGHTON: Well what they say, John, is that this is, in essence, the start of a complex attack. So when you talk about a complex attack, you're putting together different elements. So you've got bombs, you've got small arms fire, you may have automatic weapon, grenades; those different types of weapons that may have been used in this attack point to the fact that ISIS or whoever did this is trying to use different methods at the same time. So that makes the attack more complex. It also is designed to increase the shock value of the attack and actually maximize the impact, psychological impact, on the civilian population and on the specific victims.</s>ROMANS: Colonel, let's talk about the region. Indonesia, the Philippines, too, we know that ISIS has aspirations for expansion there. It's interesting; there have been long elements opposed to the very moderate nature of Islam that people practice in that region. These radicals who have been long operating before ISIS, ISIS seems to -- some of these original groups seem to be glomming onto the ISIS message; it's almost as if ISIS is growing, not organically, but by acquisition in this region.</s>LEIGHTON: That's right. In essence, Christine, it's M&A activity in the terrorist world and what you have is all of them coming together. The basic idea is to get as big as possible. And just like corporations would do, ISIS is expanding. And the reason that the groups in the Philippines and Indonesia are coming together like this is because they see ISIS as a winning brand and they want to affiliate themselves with this winning brand. So when you have that issue with a more moderate form of Islam as it's being practiced in Indonesia, you have a willingness by some more radical elements in Indonesia, to grab onto a group that is not only radical, but also willing to take the law, in essence, into their own hands. And when you have that, there is this promise of action. There are quite a few Indonesian fighters fighting for ISIS in Syria, for example. So probably around several thousand is, 1,000 or 2,000 people, is definitely a possibility. When those people go back, they've already been radicalized beyond what would happen locally. They influence the other organizations that are there, the existing organizations, and that then feeds that flame of acquisition and that willingness by those groups to adhere to the greater ISIS brand.</s>BERMAN: Cedric, one of the things we heard from the Indonesian officials, this looks like a Paris-style attack. What does that mean and what are the implications at this point?</s>LEIGHTON: Well, John, the basic idea behind the Paris attack was, find as many popular venues as you possibly can and use multiple attacks simultaneously. So what the Indonesian authorities are referring to is this idea of simultaneity. The idea of doing things at exactly the same time. So you have the attack, in the case of Indonesia, at the Starbucks, you have this area that is basically frequented by shoppers and by commercial businesses, there's a U.N. office there. All of those things come together and there's a lot of symbology attached with that as well as impact on the population centers. So the Paris attack was studied, not only by law enforcement, but also, of course, by the terrorists themselves. And every time they conduct an attack, what they're trying to do is find the most effective way to do that, to conduct those attacks. And so when they talk about Paris attacks, they're talking about that multiplicity of effect and the maximization of terror as much as they possibly can.</s>BERMAN: Cedric Leighton for us. Thank you so much. Again, the latest news from Jakarta. It looks like seven people killed. Five of them, attackers, in this deadly overnight terrorist operation.</s>ROMANS: We're going to keep up today on all of the developments of that terror attack in Jakarta, all morning long, but first, the race for president intensifying. Republicans get ready to take the debate stage.</s>BERMAN: Plus, breaking overnight, were you one of these people? At least three big powerball winners. But they have to split the jackpot. What a letdown. They have to split $1.6 billion. We're going to take you live to where one of these tickets was sold.