White House Press Secretary: Kelly Totally Unequipped To Handle The Genius Of Our Great President; Photos Show Rudy Giuliani With Indicted Associate At Baseball Game
ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. An alarming statement from the Former White House Chief of Staff: I warned Trump he'd be impeached with the wrong people around him. This comes amid Saturday testimony that wasn't expected to be explosive, but has Democrats saying they got a lot more than they thought they would. Plus, hurricane-force winds and bone-dry conditions fanning these wildfire flames in California. Hear the remarkable story of a firefighter who risked his life to save a couple in dangers and new today, U.S. military vehicles roll into war-torn Syria. Just yesterday the President said troops would be, "Coming home". It's 7:00 Eastern, 4:00 in the afternoon out west. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM and here where we begin. President Trump and his former right-hand man in the White House going back and forth today over advice on how not to get impeached. John Kelly retired Marine Corps General and Former White House Chief of Staff. He told reporters this weekend that if he had stayed on the job the President would not be in the impeachment predicament he is in now. The Former Chief of Staff told an interviewer that when they were looking at his replacement last year, he told the President "I said whatever you do, don't hire a "Yes-man", someone who won't tell you the truth. Don't do that because if you do I believe you will be impeached". President Trump is flatly denying Kelly ever said that. CNN's Sarah Westwood is at the White House. The President responded directly to CNN about this reporting. What is he saying?</s>SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Ana an aggressive response to John Kelly even by this White House's standards the Former Chief of Staff words prompting on the record responses not just from the Press Secretary, but also from the President himself. I want to read you those statements now. President Trump said John Kelly never said that. He never said anything like that. If he would have said that I would have thrown him out of the office. He just wants to come back into the action like everybody else does. And Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham's statement said: I worked with John Kelly and he was totally unequipped to handle the genius of our great President. That's just a remarkable statement for the Press Secretary to be making the genius bit of the statement aside, here we have a savaging widely respected former colleague in suggesting that this retired four-star general is somehow not equipped to handle the job that he did for a year and a half. In fact, Kelly's arrival in that position was widely celebrated at the time and so were his early tenure and the White House here quick to disparage his comments to the Washington examiner but contrast that to the way the White House has handled the impeachment inquiry. The White House has met many of the new developments in that investigation with silence they decline to dispute the specifics of new allegations as they've emerged. But when it comes to something that the President apparently perceived as a personal insult in the case of John Kelly, you will notice here that the White House was quick with a coordinated response and a coordinated pushback. That's something, Ana that Republicans have complained about, the lack of strategy and the lack of coordinated messaging when it comes to the issue of impeachment.</s>CABRERA: Right, Sarah Westwood at the White House for us. Thank you, joining us now Former Special Assistant to President George W. Bush Scott Jennings and CNN Political Commentator Ana Navarro. Guys I want to start with that alarming statement from General John Kelly, very similar to something Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said last year remember this? So often the President would say, here's what I want to do and here how I want to do it, and I would have to say to him, Mr. President, I understand what you want to do, but you can't do it that way it violates the law. Scott the fact that two former top officials have essentially said without anyone stopping him the President will commit illegal acts, should that give Republicans pause?</s>SCOTT JENNINGS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESS SECRETARY GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I - look, I agree with General Kelly that it's vital that you have staff around to push back on your ideas and to try to give you best-case scenario, worst-case scenario and really give you the best advice you can get. Where I disagree with him, is that I don't think it was his departure that precipitated impeachment and I think the Democrats were always going to impeachment the President no matter who the Chief of Staff was or any other staff was. They have spoiling to impeach him that really since he got elected and they finally got around it on this Ukrainian matter. So on the one hand, I agree, but the other hand I think it was inevitable and here we are.</s>CABRERA: You served in the Bush White House, did Advisers or Cabinet Members ever have to stop Bush from committing illegal or impeachable acts?</s>JENNINGS: No, I don't recall anyone trying to stop the President from committing illegal acts, although I do remember Democrats in some liberal media outlets clamoring to impeach President Bush which, of course, they didn't go through with, they're going through it now.</s>JENNINGS: But again the point that General Kelly is making is not incorrect. In a White House in any government agency White House, or city hall, wherever you happen to be, it's important to have people around the table with whom you can pressure test your ideas. So I think that point is correct. I just think he is a little bit misguided about the intention of the Democrats who I think they were always out to impeach the President.</s>CABRERA: Ana, also add in this reporting today speechwriter for Former Defense Secretary Mattis claims President Trump ordered Mattis to, "Screw Amazon out of a government contract". He also says Mattis was constantly trying to translate Trump's demands into ethical outcomes. What do you think the way these former officials are portraying themselves after the fact?</s>ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think the lack of adults in the room which is what we call them like Mattis, like John Kelly, like Rex Tillerson, like McMaster around Trump who does need restraint, who does need disciplining and who does need to be told how the institutions work and what is legal and not legal and who needs to be protected from himself, frankly and the country needs to be protected from him, there's now a lack of that kind of person with such gravitas. A lot of times with military titles attached to them and let me say this, Ana. I know John Kelly. John Kelly served in Miami as Demander of South Com for a few years before heading back to Washington, and he and I know each other well. I disagree with him viscerally on some of the things he did and said as the DHS Secretary and the White House. But I know him to be an honorable man. I know him to be a patriarch who loves this country, who I believe served a President whom he doesn't agree in a lot of things because he thought it was his duty. And so to now attack somebody like John Kelly who has paid frankly the ultimate sacrifice, lost a son in service to this country while Donald Trump is feigning bone spurs on his feet - not to serve. And that's the kind of man we're discussing now with such chivalry and just throwing around kind of, you know, questioning his motives and questioning his honor in the case of the Secretary - the Press Secretary of Trump.</s>CABRERA: Let me read, in fact, again, that statement from the White House Press Secretary, Stephanie Grisham, defending President Trump. She writes, "I worked with John Kelly. He was totally unequipped to handle the genius of our great President". Scott, this sentence, the way it's almost dear leadership, does it prove Kelly's point that the President is surrounded by yes men, or in this case, yes women?</s>JENNINGS: Well, I disagree with the statement. I don't think it's an appropriate statement for the White House to make about someone who served our country with such distinction. And by the way General Kelly, I think he had a pretty job as Chief of Staff. I think he had a few moments that were missteps certainly including the handling of the White House Staff Secretary situation which was mishandled. But overall, I think General Kelly did a great job for the administration and I would just advise the White House that these people who leave your administration, you know, they're still around. They're still making public statements. They're still prone to being called to testify before Congress like John Bolton.</s>CABRERA: John Bolton, yes.</s>JENNINGS: So I would just say that it's better to keep people close to you and not push them away or to disparage their character or their patriotism the way that we're seeing going on here with General Kelly. By the way, I didn't take General Kelly's comments as necessarily a negative comment about the President I just took it as his opinion about what could happen if you get certain kind of staff. I didn't see it as a disparaging to the President. So my advice to the White House would be celebrate the people who have come to work with you, because a lot them have done a good job for you and they've served their country and they don't deserve to have their character and their patriotism disparaged this way.</s>NAVARRO: I do think, though, his statements went further than that because basically what he said, look, I told the President that if he got himself a "Yes-man" he'd end up impeached and in fact, that seems to be where we are heading and you know, you're right. There were some extremists that wanted to impeach Bush at some point, but he never gave them basis to do it. There was never evidence of impeachable offenses. There was never evidence of unethical and criminal behavior. Were there mistakes? Many, many, many mistakes made like by every other President because they are human, but this goes beyond that. What Trump has done in terms of abuse of power, in terms of inviting foreign interference in our elections, those are, for many of us, for many Americans viewed as impeachable offenses.</s>CABRERA: Scott, the bar for Republicans does seem to keep moving. First, this is hearsay and then it was there was no quid pro quo. Both of those defenses were blown up this week. Do you think there should be a red line for Republicans? A point where they say if this is proven, Trump loses our support.</s>JENNINGS: I think what you're going to see Republicans come down on this. It's obvious that something happened. The President says it wasn't a quid pro quo. A lot of people are going to testify to the fact that it was, and some people are going to say that that's impeachable and the Republicans are likely going to come down and say it may have been bad judgment. We don't agree with the policy, but we don't think it's impeachable. So I think at some point you have to look at the body of evidence and the body of facts and if the facts bear out and testimony bears out which by the way, we haven't seen the full testimony of these people just selected leaks. But if the full testimony bears out that it did happen I think Republicans are going to have to not - not disown the facts, but own it and own their attitude which I think is probably going to be I don't like it, bad judgment, wish he hadn't done it and I don't think it's impeachable and I would rather trust the American people in an election rather more than I trust Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff in an impeachment. I think that's likely where this is all going to fall out for Republicans, because I don't, frankly, out here in the middle of the country where I live, I don't see Republicans breaking support for the President one bit over this.</s>CABRERA: Okay. And I got to ask you really quick about Rudy Giuliani and this pocket dial. Here's what he accidentally left on a reporter's voice mail.</s>RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: Tomorrow I've got to get you to get on Bahrain.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Hold on.</s>GIULIANI: You got to call Robert again tomorrow. Is Robert around? The problem is we need some money. We need a few hundred thousand.</s>CABRERA: An argument could be made that Giuliani is the one that got President Trump into this mess when he convinced him of this conspiracy theory involving Ukraine and Joe Biden. Why hasn't the President cut ties with Giuliani?</s>NAVARRO: Well, first of all, they're both grown adult men in their 70s with a hell of a lot of experience. I don't think Giuliani got Trump into it and I don't think Trump got Giuliani into it. They're both accountable for their actions. I've known Giuliani as well for a very long time. I don't recognize this Rudy Giuliani that I see and hear nowadays. It is a complete 180 from the person who was America's Mayor just - I guess what? 15 years ago, and my advice to Giuliani would be Rudy, get you a flip phone, man. Get yourself one of those old-fashioned flip phones because you obviously can't handle a smart phone, get one of those that closes and it won't dial out, but I think Giuliani's attitude here has been - and it's one that he doesn't get a pass on because he knows better, because he's been a prosecutor because he's been a U.S. Attorney because he's prosecuted cases of public corruption. So, you know, if there is somebody out there who cannot plead ignorance, who could not say I didn't know this was illegal and I didn't know this was unethical, who cannot say oh, I didn't know what these Ukrainians were about. He should have known. He should have looked into it. He owned a security company, for God's sakes. There's just - he gets zero pass on his lapses of judgment and ethics on this, I think.</s>CABRERA: Scott, would you like to see the President Part ways with Giuliani, Scott?</s>JENNINGS: Yes, my views on this are well known. I've said it on these airwaves many times. First of all, your lawyer is supposed to get you out of trouble and not get you into trouble. I would just say to the President, I think Rudy Giuliani has taken on--</s>NAVARRO: When your lawyers need lawyers, you're in trouble.</s>JENNINGS: I think it sounds to me like he's taken on some information and some clients and some interests here that have not served the President very well. Now the President's responsible for what he believes and what he doesn't believe and how close he lets certain people get, but in this particular case, I think Rudy Giuliani has hurt him on the Ukrainian issue. I would cut ties with him, and to the extent that it can be shown that Giuliani was the genesis of some of these bad actions and not the President, if it can't be shown and that's what the facts bear out, I think the President will need to go in that direction.</s>CABRERA: Scott Jennings and Ana Navarro, great to have you both with us. Thank you. Happening right now, the House Committees involved in the Presidential impeachment inquiry are holding a rare Saturday session. This as we're just learning of two new depositions planned for next week. Live to Capitol Hill next.