The Huddle Over Cabinet Picks; Obama Warns Against Crude Nationalism; Rogers Leaves Transition Team; Ryan on Same Page with Trump
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there and welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Brianna Keilar. Now some of the biggest decisions that any new president makes comes weeks even months before he or she officially has the job. And so we begin this hour at Trump Tower in Manhattan, the site of a high-stakes huddle between the president-elect and his running mate, seen here. Also happens to be heading up his transition team. Sixty-six days before they are sworn into office, Donald Trump and Mike Pence are said to be matching cabinet positions with candidates. It's a process that as of yesterday was described by one source as a, quote, "knife fight" between Republican main streamers and outsiders. CNN's Phil Mattingly joining us now with what we know and also, Phil, of course, what we can't wait to find out.</s>PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, specific names, right?</s>KEILAR: That's right.</s>MATTINGLY: And specific answers on things. I think what's most interesting right now is the news that's developed over the last couple -- probably 48 hours, including over the last couple of hours. You mentioned "knife fight." There is an individual who is leaving the transition team today that we've all probably heard of. His name's Mike Rogers. He is the former House Intelligence chairman. He's a former FBI special agent. He was on the transition team. A key player on the transition team on the national security side of things. And, frankly, when you talk to national security and foreign policy folks who are a little bit wary of the Trump campaign, the Trump transition team, Mike Rogers was seen as a good sign to them.</s>KEILAR: They loved that he was on here.</s>MATTINGLY: He was -- he was the sign that things would be OK. They were taking this seriously. Mike Rogers no longer on the transition team. Now, officially, he has thanked the transition team. He said it was time for him to leave. What we are hearing behind the scenes is, this was part of a -- kind of a systemic purge, if you will. A pushing out of top allies of Chris Christie. Now, you remember, Chris Christie was running the transition team. No longer. Has been kind of pushed out. Now top advisers to Chris Christie, top allies of Chris Christie, have also left the transition team. This is part of a power play is kind of the way it's being described to us. Now, the transition team officially is not commenting on this. But what we're hearing behind the scenes right now is this is a very difficult process. It is a lot of powerful people and power-hungry people that are battling back and forth. And right now, if you're allied with Chris Christie or you came in with Chris Christie, odds are you're moving outside the door.</s>KEILAR: Are establishment Republicans freaking out about this?</s>MATTINGLY: Yes, I think so. And I think it's -- there's an interesting element here, right, of Trump officials look at this and say, look, you weren't with us from the beginning. Why should we all of a sudden -- when you told us we were going to lose, we're going to get killed from the primary through the election, why should we all of a sudden listen to you? And there's nowhere this is more apparent than on the foreign policy side. How many Republicans in the traditional foreign policy camp, the traditional Republican foreign policy camp signed letters saying they're anti-Trump, signed letters saying they were never Trump. Those individuals right now, behind the scenes I'm told, are weighing very heavily, do we come in now and try and help for the good of the country, to be patriots? And the Trump team is saying, look, you weren't here from us from the beginning. Loyalty matters. We don't care what your resume says. We don't want you here.</s>KEILAR: But what about people -- Ben Carson was very loyal --</s>MATTINGLY: Right.</s>KEILAR: And yet his associate is saying he was offered HHS secretary and he turned it down.</s>MATTINGLY: Right.</s>KEILAR: And what I found startling about Armstrong Williams, his business manager's statement, was he said that he's a neophyte and that it was a lot to ask. He ran for president, so --</s>MATTINGLY: Yes. So apparently HHS secretary is less intense than being president of the United States.</s>KEILAR: I know. Is that harder? Is that harder than the White House or --</s>MATTINGLY: No, look, when it comes to Dr. Ben Carson, when it comes to Armstrong Williams, you always kind of take what they're saying with a grain of salt. But here's kind of what we know or what I've been told at least. Ben Carson was told that there was a place for him in the administration. Whether or not that was a cabinet secretary position. Armstrong Williams saying HHS was an opportunity for him. Ben Carson has decided that he wants to stay outside of the administration and advise from that capacity. It's --</s>KEILAR: Where he can also make a lot of money.</s>MATTINGLY: You can also make money. And Ben Carson has made a lot of money on the speaking circuit. But, again, it just -- it underscores that there are a lot of loyalists here that want big-time positions. There are a lot of people on the outside that want positions that are trying to figure out their way in. The baseline reality here is, as you noted, we are 60-plus day away. There are major decisions that need to be made for hundreds if not thousands of government positions right now and there is still a lot of dissention, a lot of tension inside the transition team.</s>KEILAR: Secretary of state is so interesting. Let's take a look at some of the names that we have. Josh -- or, I should say, former Ambassador Bolton. We also have Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich, Bob Corker, Richard Haas. What do you make of this?</s>MATTINGLY: So, what we're hearing right now, what I've been told, is that Rudy Giuliani has a lead in this. And you've heard -- you might have seen some comments from Rudy Giuliani last night essentially saying that he thinks he's probably the best person for the job. There's one thing that I'm continuously cautioned of as we start tossing out names, and you can look at Treasury Department or Defense Department, or attorney general, and we're all getting names back and forth. Here's the reality. Until Donald Trump signs off on this name, it could change from hour to hour. So while we are hearing right now that Rudy Giuliani has the lead, Ambassador Bolton has a lot of Republican support with him as well. Bob Corker is always around. So keep that in mind. Also worth noting real quick before we close, Mike Pence showing up there is a very big moment. He's now running the transition team, but he is also somebody with definitive connections across the Republican Party. What he says, what he recommends carries a lot of weight, I'm told.</s>KEILAR: That's really interesting. All right, Phil Mattingly, thank you so much for sorting all of that out. Well, President Obama is in Greece today as part of his last scheduled overseas trip before he leaves office. And at a news conference that you may have seen live here on CNN, he was asked more than once about the U.S. election. And here's some of what he had to say.</s>BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think at times of significant stress, people are going to be looking for something, and they don't always know exactly what it is that they're looking for and they may opt for change, even if they're not entirely confident what that change will bring. I do believe, separate and apart from any particular election or movement, that we are going to have to guard against a rise in a crude sort of nationalism or ethnic identity or tribalism that is built around an "us" and a "them." And I will never apologize for saying that the future of humanity and the future of the world is going to be defined by what we have in common, as opposed to those things that separate us and ultimately lead us into conflict.</s>KEILAR: Fascinating comments after the president's press conference at the White House yesterday. Joining me now to discuss this is David Swerdlick, he's the assistant editor of "The Washington Post," and CNN political commentator and CNN Politics executive editor Mark Preston. You listened to that. That was a warning in a way, guarding against tribalism. He talked about crude, meaning, he's -- he's talking about guarding against racism and some of the heightened rhetoric that we saw from Donald Trump and the support that he got from the alt-right xenophobic, anti-Semitic ideologues, basically. What -- this is interesting. He's saying this abroad, and it is a bit of a counterpoint to what he said yesterday, where he said, you know, basically he's giving Donald Trump a chance. He didn't take a swing at him.</s>DAVID SWERDLICK, ASSISTANT EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes. No, and I think President Obama is trying to do three things and weave them together right now with his speeches over the last several day. One is to, you know, sort of set the example for this peaceful transition of power, two, defend his own record, which he -- he did in the press conference yesterday just with a few key highlights, and then now, today, warning against -- that there is a potential for division and for a stoking of the -- of the divisions that were there in the campaign if both sides, if both partisans sides and if the new administration is not careful.</s>KEILAR: He's speaking to concerns of Democrats it sounds like.</s>MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Yes, no doubt. Not only Democrats, but also just folks who were concerned about a Donald Trump presidency and not necessarily Donald Trump or perhaps Donald Trump, but really those who he surrounds himself with and who is going to have his ear at the very last time to make those all-important decisions, whether it's domestic or whether it's dealing with foreign governments.</s>KEILAR: Let's talk a little bit about the future here. What Donald Trump and those he surrounds himself with, what that's going to look like. The knife fight is what we heard this described as yesterday. Is Mike Rogers a casualty of this? He may have been someone who was aligned with Chris Christie, but is that the only reason why he's gone?</s>PRESTON: You know, look, we're still learning why Congressman Rogers decided to pull himself out of it. Look, I think it's a disservice actually to the nation because we all know Mike Rogers. I mean he has -- he's worked here at CNN. He was very well respected on Capitol Hill. He was very well respected within the intelligence community. And not having his input and his mind and, quite frankly, his guiding force I think is a mistake for the Trump transition team. As you discussed, a knife fight is going on. And just to explain what the knife fight is, that means there's a lot of blood. There's a lot of blood being spilt right now.</s>SWERDLICK: Yes, no, I agree with Mark. I mean when you have someone who was a respected committee chair, someone who's a former FBI special agent or a senior agent leaving the Trump transition team this early, even though he left -- you know, tried to calm the waters with his statement, it strikes me that this is a loss more for the Trump team than for Congressman Rogers.</s>KEILAR: There's so many people who are really paying attention to who's going to be secretary of state. A huge job. And Rudy Giuliani is publicly campaigning for this job. But you look at -- let's just say his personality profile, right? He is -- he's not the most diplomatic guy. So what is the thinking here? What is the prevailing opinion on who's going to be secretary of state at this point?</s>PRESTON: I think it's Rudy's if he wants it. Listen, talk about someone who has been very loyal to Donald Trump through all of this, who has been really his big cheerleader, has defended him on every count. Look, Rudy's got a lot of New York in him, right? He is very blunt. He says what's on his mind. And as you say, you are the top diplomat for the world. You are speaking for the leader of the free world. The question is, if he does become secretary of state, will he be able to temper that, because that really is a job. And Hillary Clinton did a very good job for Barack Obama in tempering it, not making it about herself.</s>KEILAR: David, I want to ask you about John Bolton because the former ambassador is -- he is still not sorry about the Iraq War. Some people have -- you know, Donald Trump, obviously, tries to make the case that he was against it, even though we know he actually was not. How could he possibly pick John Bolton?</s>SWERDLICK: Well, I think he could because Donald Trump likes a certain posture. Whether or not he and John Bolton agree on everything policy wise, John Bolton has been unapologetic. He has presented and aggressive face. He has the resume, right? He was the former U.N. ambassador. So you could see a situation where a foreign policy type could convince President-elect Trump to pick Bolton, even if they may wind up disagreeing down the road on how to approach Russia, how to approach Iran, how to approach other issues around the globe.</s>KEILAR: A very good point. All right, David Swerdlick, Mark Preston, thank you so much. Up next, the Trump team isn't the only transition tango in town. House Republicans are set to elect their leadership team, while House Democrats still shell shocked over the Trump win just decided to delay their vote. Does this mean, perhaps, that Nancy Pelosi's days as leader are numbered?