Reality TV Shows Trigger Massive Groan
BEGALA: You know, not so long ago, "Survivor" ushered in a new era of reality television. Seemingly real people stabbing each other in the back for fun a profit. And we all asked, can TV get any lower? Of course it can. As children the baby boomers used to watch "Ozzie and Harriet." Now their kid are stuck on Ozzy the bat biter on MTV and, soon, Anna Nicole Smith will play the merry widow on E!, just a few of the growing list of semi-celebrities, has-beens and never-wases, who are washing up on a cable channel near you. Just in from the vast wasteland and ready for the CROSSFIRE are Mo Rocca. He is a correspondent for the "Daily Show" on Comedy Central, and Sandy Rios, of the Concerned Women for America. Thank you both very much for joining us.</s>CARLSON: All right, now. Sean "Puffy" P. Diddy Combs. Unfortunately we don't have time for you to explain what exactly this character does for a living, but instead I want you to just listen to a quote from him. Here he is, Mr. Combs.</s>P. DIDDY, ARTIST: I'm very excited about this new partnership with MTV. I think this will give people a chance to finally understand and see what I do on a day-to-day basis.</s>CARLSON: Now who cares what this guy does on a day-to-day basis?</s>MO ROCCA, CORRESPONDENT, "THE DAILY SHOW": Well, look, I think it's absolutely valid. We have to remember that today's children are tomorrow's celebrities, at least some of them, and some of these future celebrities may get their own reality sitcoms. And I think it's important for them to know what that might entail. And so I think somebody like Puff Daddy can teach us a lot. I also think somebody like Puff Daddy can talk to us about why he changed his name P. Diddy, and I think that's fascinating for a budding etymologist.</s>BEGALA: Absolutely, Mo. Sandy, let me bring you into it. This is a little device. It's called a remote control. Three words: change the channel. They actually let women use these now, I'm told, but now -- change the channel, Sandy. What's the problem? You got something on you don't like? I tried this on Tucker and I hit the brightness button and nothing happens. I'm just kidding. So you have the power.</s>SANDY RIOS, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: Oh! Yes, but that's not the point. I think the point is, Paul -- this is the main point for me. You know, it's funny about television, because television makes things seem larger than life. You know that. If you're on television, people think somehow you are something, because you're on TV. People are always, you know, waiting behind the cameraman because they want to get on</s>TV. ROCCA: You know, can I get a word in edgewise here?</s>RIOS: No, let me finish.</s>ROCCA: I'm sorry, yes?</s>RIOS: The point I'm trying to make is that television creates something out of nothing. It really is not very significant that we appear on television. And so reality television presents nothing and makes it look like something, and people that...</s>ROCCA: Please, Sandy. Sandy, Sandy, please. ...are watching it are actually doing nothing when they think they are doing something. Yes, Mo?</s>ROCCA: I have to -- I have to disagree with everything she just said.</s>RIOS: OK.</s>ROCCA: I mean, Anna Nicole Smith -- look at somebody like Anna Nicole Smith. This is a woman who began life very poor, and now she's very rich. I meanm it's a Horatio Alger story.</s>RIOS: So, Mo, we get to watch her lying on her bed eating junk food?</s>ROCCA: And I think that the Concerned Women of America should be a little bit more concerned about empowering young girls who want to grow up and marry billionaire oilmen.</s>CARLSON: Now, wait a second. Now Mo, Sandy has a point, though, that really this is the death of "Love Boat." So now if you're a washed up actress like Cybill Shepherd and you've got nowhere to go but Hollywood Squares, this gives you a second life on television, and it creates for the public this false perception that, say, Cybill Shepherd's snacking habits or interior life is interesting of meaningful.</s>ROCCA: Well, look, we have a real problem in this country with Social Security solvency. Liza Minnelli is somebody who's getting her own show, and if she didn't have her own show, she might not be able to take care of herself. This is -- and I'll remind you that this a woman who suffers from encephalitis and now no longer has it. So I really think that Sandy needs to be more concerned about women who have had encephalitis, because those women are from America.</s>RIOS: Mo, maybe you should concerned women, because you have so much concern about this.</s>BEGALA: Well, for somebody who I think you're sympathetic to, former celebrity himself, Dan Quayle, went so far as to praise the "Osbournes." He clearly watched it and he said it was a good show and that he found some redeeming value in this rather bizarre family relationship, so Dan Quayle...</s>RIOS: So because Dan Quayle said that, I have to line up, huh?</s>BEGALA: Well, I'm just curious. He's like your guy, right?</s>RIOS: He's my guy?</s>BEGALA: Conservatives love Dan Quayle.</s>RIOS: Well, maybe they do, but we don't have to agree with him on everything...</s>ROCCA: Can I say something? I keep getting cut off here!</s>RIOS: No, let me answer, Mo.</s>BEGALA: Go ahead, Sandy.</s>RIOS: The problem is, you know, 100 years ago or 200 years ago, people understood that time was precious. Many people, when they finish their job, would learn disciplines like language, and they would learn geometry or geography. They enhance their lives. Instead we go home and watch reality television.</s>BEGALA: We watch CROSSFIRE first, though...</s>RIOS: Yes. All right. I'm more in favor of that. But I would just say life is precious. Surely we have more to do than do sit and watch people do nothing while we think that we are doing something and we're doing nothing except wasting our lives.</s>CARLSON: Now, Mo, is that true? I mean, do you have nothing better to do than to watch Liza Minnelli. Honestly, you can tell us.</s>ROCCA: Look, you know what's ironic about all of this? Sandy and I go back years. I mean, we're old friends. And just last week she was telling me that she loves Ozzy's show on MTV. So go figure.</s>CARLSON: But Mo, don't you think it's a bad sign when people are no longer -- not only do they watch, say, "The Osbournes," but they are no longer embarrassed about it. Don't you think, you know, if you're sneaking off to the dirty book store there should be shame associated with it. But watching "The Osbournes," you'll admit it.</s>ROCCA: Well, in all seriousness, I mean, how many people are watching this? The fact of the matter is we have to trust the market. I mean, there's channels for everything. If you want to watch golf all day long; if you want to watch House and Garden; and if you want to watch hard news, I mean, you can turn to Comedy Central. I mean, there's definitely, you know, a place for everybody out there.</s>BEGALA: So there is. But what's wrong with the marketplace argument?</s>RIOS: The marketplace argument?</s>BEGALA: That Mo just made -- the market is serving the consumers what people want.</s>RIOS: Yes, but you know what, there is a day -- let me try this on you, Paul. You know, there was a time, I'd say 30 years...</s>ROCCA: Can I get a word in edgewise?</s>RIOS: Oh, Mo!</s>ROCCA: All right, fine. I'm not going to fight.</s>RIOS: There was a time when people understood, like Hillary Clinton said just a few years ago -- thank you Mo -- that it takes a village. And we understood that we work together to create a better land. We taught our children well. We were on the same page in terms of morality. Hollywood was held to a high standard. And now it's moral chaos. The lowest is the winner doesn't matter. And I don't think it serves any of us.</s>BEGALA: Disagrees with Dan Quayle, agrees with Hillary Clinton. My kind of woman...</s>CARLSON: In television, despite all the chaos, is going to commercial break, which we're going to have to do now.</s>ROCCA: You know what's sad...</s>CARLSON: Mo, tell us in 31 seconds.</s>ROCCA: What's sad about all this: Anna Nicole Smith would probably describe herself as concerned, as a woman, and as someone from America. So this is just sad and ironic, I think.</s>RIOS: There you go.</s>CARLSON: Mo Rocca in New York, Sandy Rios in Washington, thank you both very much. Coming up: your chance to throw a little reality back at us in "Fireback." One of our viewers has, I think, a fascinating idea for improving the way Paul Begala looks on television. We'll be right back.