Swift Boat Veterans Launch New Ad Attacking Kerry
BEGALA: The group with the Orwellian name, Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, is at it again today. They released another outrageous ad attacking war hero John Kerry. So why this is right wing so concerned about what happened in Vietnam 35 years ago? Well, maybe because they can't defend what's happening in America today? And why doesn't George W. Bush just have the simple courage to stand up and denounce these attacks the way brave Republicans like John McCain and John Warner have done? Joining us to talk about the impact of these ads and other issues, Bay Buchanan, president of the American Cause and former chairman of Patrick Buchanan's campaign for president, and Vic Kamber. He is an author, a democratic strategist and a consultant to labor groups. Thank you very much for joining us.</s>CARLSON: Thanks for joining us. Vic, before we argue about the ad, let's go ahead and watch it. Here's the new ad from Swift Boat -- you know, the ad.</s>KERRY: They had personally raped, cut off the ears, cut off heads.</s>JOE PONDER, VIETNAM VETERAN: The accusations that John Kerry made against the veterans who served in Vietnam was just devastating.</s>KERRY: Randomly shot at civilians.</s>PONDER: And it hurt me more than any physical wounds I had.</s>KERRY: Cut off limbs, blown up bodies.</s>KEN DORDIER, VIETNAM VETERAN: That was part of the torture was to sign a statement that you had committed war crimes.</s>CARLSON: It's hard to argue with that. Those are John Kerry's words. Those are his fellow veterans, all whom served longer in Vietnam than he did. There is a former prisoner of war who spent over five years in prison camps, saying that they were offended, that their feelings were hurt and that they were outraged by his claim that they committed war crimes. I don't see that there's anything to argue about.</s>VIC KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, it's -- first of all, it's out of context. We don't -- I'd love to see the full context of what he said.</s>CARLSON: Well, I've got it right here.</s>KAMBER: I'm happy to look at it. Number two, these people have no credibility. They lied throughout the entire first ad. This is the truth. I have no difficulty with what you're saying here. This is what they really believe. They're angry with John Kerry for his anti-war comments after the war - after he left the Army. They have a right to be, if they want that. That's their view. But they lied in that first ad. These people have absolutely no credibility. This man is a hero...</s>CARLSON: No, Vic.</s>KAMBER: He served the country well. He has five awards. He deserved all that.</s>CARLSON: I want you to think about what you're saying. You're saying that it's outrageous that people attack John Kerry because he is a war hero.</s>KAMPBER: It is outrageous that they lied.</s>CARLSON: These are men...</s>KAMPBER: It's outrageous that they lied.</s>CARLSON: ... whose heroism is beyond question.</s>KAMPBER: Whose? These men?</s>CARLSON: Whose heroism is beyond question. OK. You're attacking them as right-wing thugs. Think about it.</s>KAMBER: I didn't use that word. You just used it.</s>CARLSON: Please.</s>KAMBER: I'm attacking them as liars, as men who would not stand up and say that they are unhappy with John Kerry because of his anti- war position, so they took to lying, to telling the American public this man is not a hero. He shot people in the back. He's this. He's this. He's this. Now, they're saying, gee we're unhappy with him because he was anti-war. They lied to us. They have no credibility, and this is a front for George Bush. And you know it, and I know it.</s>BEGALA: OK. Today, the Kerry campaign organized a conference call with reporters on which General Merrill McPeak, Tony McPete, former Air Force chief of staff who led the Air Force during the first Gulf War, who endorsed George W. Bush for president, had some rather striking things to say about President Bush and his administration. This is not hiding behind anyone. This is fully endorsed by the Kerry campaign. And I believe every word of it. Here's what General McPeak said today about our president and his team. "One of my complaints, one of many, about the current administration is that they are cheerleaders. John Kerry carries the ball. He doesn't need to try out for the pompom corps like these guys do. They're a little bit old for it and not nearly pretty enough. I'm not highlighting the fact that Cheney got five deferments or that Bush played dodge ball during the Vietnam War." Isn't it a little unseemly for men like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney to be countenancing the attack on anybody's heroism?</s>BAY BUCHANAN, THE AMERICAN CAUSE: You know what's amazing is, here Vic is all upset with these people he claims are lying and then he makes accusations, as you just have, against the president of the United States, as if they're behind...</s>BEGALA: I just read what General McPeak said.</s>BUCHANAN: But, no, you then said, well, isn't it a terrible thing that Bush and Cheney would be supporting these kind of things. Bush and Cheney...</s>BEGALA: They're countenancing...</s>BUCHANAN: They are not...</s>BEGALA: ... which they do.</s>BUCHANAN: They are not, in any way, involved in these -- these are men who worked side by side, in war with John Kerry 30-some years ago. They're officers, 200 naval officers, well-respected former officers, have signed and confirmed these charges against him. Now, if you all want to take issue with these -- I don't know if the charges are accurate or not -- but you cannot then jump to the conclusion that these people are somehow a front for Bush. They are not. They have a right as Americans to speak against John Kerry.</s>BEGALA: They have a right to fight for Bush as well.</s>BUCHANAN: And they have...</s>BEGALA: But my question -- let me get back to my question. I've been talking for a minute about whether they were a front for the Bush campaign. But my question was about President Bush and his character. Why is he behaving like a cheerleader here, standing on the sidelines going, rah, rah team. If he believes these attacks are legitimate, why doesn't he wage them? If they're illegitimate, why doesn't he disavow them the way John McCain did?</s>BUCHANAN: That is an excellent...</s>BEGALA: Why is he so gutless?</s>BUCHANAN: I think that is an -- that's an interesting point. George Bush has denounced this ad along with all...</s>BEGALA: No, he hasn't.</s>BUCHANAN: Wait a minute. He has announced all of the ads. What I...</s>BEGALA: Not the content, he's just denounced they way they're funded.</s>BUCHANAN: Wait a minute. Let me...</s>BEGALA: Who cares how they're funded.</s>BUCHANAN: He does not believe any of these ads should be up. But I will ask you, let's have a level playing field. We have $63 million of ads trashing the president of the United States. And I didn't hear Kerry or you saying, it's an outrage, and they were lies. Oh, they were not true.</s>BUCHANAN: A pack of lies.</s>BEGALA: I have a problem with false advertising.</s>CARLSON: Let me just say, I was going to ask you another question. But I just -- I wonder if you think it's unseemly, this constant, this litany of attacks, -- frankly some of them homophobic, if I do say -- against Bush as being effeminate, not masculine enough. That he is...</s>KAMBER: Are we in this gay age because of...</s>CARLSON: I've asked you a fairly simple question.</s>KAMBER: Yes, go ahead.</s>CARLSON: And that is, do you think it's appropriate to constantly attack Bush's masculinity, as Paul Begala does, while holding John Kerry out as some rippling mass of masculinity?</s>KAMBER: First of all...</s>CARLSON: Isn't that a little bit disgusting?</s>KAMBER: I had no idea that his masculinity was being attacked. I could care less about his masculinity. I hope he has a feminine side to him and frankly would be a better American if he was. My point is, let's start talking issues.</s>CARLSON: Really?</s>KAMBER: Why are we sitting here talking crap? And that's all we're doing.</s>CARLSON: Where were you during the Democratic convention when John Kerry got up and spent the entire four days, he and his party, talking about his four months in Vietnam and never mentioned, virtually...</s>KAMBER: You weren't at the same convention I was.</s>CARLSON: I watched almost every speech at that convention. I was there. The highlight -- the whole thing was about his service in Vietnam.</s>KAMBER: There were 122 speakers that talked about the problems in America, the economy, education, infrastructure, foreign policy, war, you name it. Yes they talked about...</s>CARLSON: It was all "reporting for duty, sir" and all that ludicrous Army stuff.</s>KAMBER: That may be. He did it, Tucker.</s>CARLSON: I mean, come on.</s>KAMBER: He did it. He did report for duty.</s>CARLSON: But he spent 20 years in the United States Senate. Can't we hear about that?</s>BEGALA: Let me get back to this question of whether they're a front for President Bush because I'm really quite intrigued with the notion that you really might be sort of credulous and naive enough to believe that they're not. Here's what the "New York Times" reported this morning, "Records show that the group," this group in question, Swift something. "Records show that the group received the bulk of its," financing -- "initial financing from two men with ties to the president and his family. A Texas publicist, who once helped prepare Mr. Bush's father for his debate when he was running for vice president, provided the group with strategic advice. And the groups television commercial was produced by the same team that made the devastating ad mocking Michael S. Dukakis in an oversized tank helmet." Do you really believe that this has nothing to do with the Bush campaign?</s>BUCHANAN: Paul, now I'm sure this is enormously revealing to all who are listening. Everybody, including yourself, must have thought the nuns of St. Mary were financing this ad? Who do you think finances ads that beat up on Kerry, people who are pro-Bush. Who do you think is financing...</s>BEGALA: So, why do you -- why not acknowledge that this is a front group...</s>BUCHANAN: That does not...</s>BEGALA: ... for George W. Bush's campaign.</s>BUCHANAN: Is MoveOn.com a front group? Is Michael Moore's movie a front group?</s>BEGALA: Kerry has disavowed MoveOn ads, which I actually endorse. But Kerry has disavowed ads that he disagrees with.</s>BUCHANAN: No, he picks and chooses the ads.</s>BEGALA: Those that are fair and those that are not. That's called judgment.</s>BUCHANAN: No, no.</s>BEGALA: The president could exercise some judgment.</s>BUCHANAN: He...</s>BEGALA: This is not a fair ad.</s>BUCHANAN: He denounces all of them. He says, I want nothing to do with them. He doesn't know whether this ad...</s>KAMBER: Bay...</s>BUCHANAN: ... is accurate or not.</s>KAMBER: ... he is denouncing...</s>BUCHANAN: He says, I'm not touching them.</s>BEGALA: A lot of things he doesn't know. Actually pleading ignorance is a wise course for the president on most any issue.</s>KAMBER: But he is pleads ignorance. That's the problem.</s>BUCHANAN: The problem here is for two weeks John Kerry decided he was going to ignore these charges. And that's up to him, if he wants to ignore the charges, fine. Maybe it will go away. All of a sudden out of nowhere he brings it up again. He is going to put "unfit for command," that thought back on the charts for another two weeks. And everybody is going to be talking about it. This is fool-hardy strategy.</s>BEGALA: From a veteran strategist -- keep your seat, Bay. Hang on Vic, just a second. We're going to come back to you guys. And when we do return, we'll put our guests in "Rapid Fire" where the questions come faster than John Kerry's right-wing attackers can change their stories. And oil prices are hitting new highs today. How soon will we be paying the price at the pump? Wolf Blitzer will have details for you right after the break.