Interview of Gary Parker, Bruce Fein
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: The Georgia Parole Board is considering today the case of Alexander Williams. If it doesn't grant his request, Williams could be executed as early as tonight, even though he is mentally ill. Williams was 17 when he kidnapped and killed a teenage girl back in 1986. He has since been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Williams' lawyer is Gary Parker. He joins us from Columbus, Georgia this morning. And in Washington, constitutional scholar Bruce Fein. Gentlemen, good morning, thanks for joining us.</s>BRUCE FEIN, CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR: Thank you.</s>KAGAN: Good to have Bruce along. I was to start with Gary, with Alexander Williams' attorney, because it is a constitutional argument that you are making, saying that it would be unconstitutional to execute your client in this way, basically to be giving him so much medication so that he would be sane enough to understand what is happening. You're saying that this would be cruel and unusual punishment to medicate him in this way.</s>GARY PARKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We believe that it will, and we also believe the fact that he was under the age of 18 at the time that he committed this horrible crime are matters that the board and the state of Georgia should be considering. He also did not receive a fair trial. He was represented by a lawyer that was grossly incompetent, or unconcerned about his well-being. Alex had been hospitalized for mental illness prior to this crime. He's been mentally ill throughout his incarceration, and he is mentally ill today.</s>KAGAN: Gary, because he was so close -- because Alex Williams was so close in age to 18, wouldn't you say your stronger argument is going after the mentally ill and medication issue? He was within weeks of turning 18.</s>PARKER: We think that both -- we think both arguments are very strong. There has been a world outcry, the European Union, Pope John Paul, former First Lady Rosalynn Carter, the American Bar Association, the national PTA Association, the National Mental Health Association, and scores of churches and individuals and child advocacy groups have all come out challenging this, and pleading for mercy for Mr. Williams.</s>KAGAN: Bruce, let's go ahead and bring you in here. The Supreme Court has touched on this, not this exact issue, but has ruled on death penalty cases, at least when it includes mentally ill defendants.</s>FEIN: Well, I think your statement, and Mr. Parker's statement, are forceful, but in fact, the U.S. Supreme Court has expressly addressed the issue of whether someone who was 17 years at the time of the capital crime can be executed...</s>KAGAN: The age issue, Bruce, but what about the mentally ill, having to be medicated (ph)...</s>FEIN: I'll address that one, right, but the fact...</s>KAGAN: Okay.</s>FEIN: ...is the Supreme Court has upheld the constitutionality of executing individuals who are as young as 17 or 16, they have set a limit at 15, but not 16 or 17 for capital punishment. Now in the mental illness case, I don't think that this really a novel question. The courts have uniformly held, for instance, that an individual who is accused of a crime, for purposes of trial, can be forcibly given drugs to ensure that's he's mentally competent to aid counsel. This is the same kind of argument, but different translated (ph)...</s>KAGAN: But isn't that different, Bruce? Isn't counsel different than actually being executed? There is a big gap in between those two things.</s>FEIN: Well, of course, because the -- I -- not want to understate, you know, the -- the gravity of a death penalty, but the purpose of prohibiting mental illness at the time of death is because, in the end, it is thought cruel and unusual that the individual would not really appreciate or know what the reason for the execution was. If giving drugs will dispel that lack of understanding or mystery, cures the problem, then there should not be any Eighth Amendment issue involved, the same way at trial. If giving drugs enables the defendant to appreciate what's going on, it cures any problem of mental illness as being inhibiting the inadequate defense.</s>KAGAN: Gary, speaking of cruel and unusual, let's not forget the victim in this case, and that was a 16-year-old girl from here in Georgia, 16-year-old Aleta Bunch. This happened back in 1986. She was raped and she was murdered. You are not contesting that your client did this, are you?</s>PARKER: Oh, no. We're not contesting that he did it. We are not saying that he should get out of prison. We are basically saying that he should stay in prison for the rest of his life. You know, that these kinds of tragedies, often times, are avoidable. I think that there's a direct relation between the fact that Georgia has almost abandoned the chronically ill, they provide totally inadequate resources to stop child abuse, and that's another factor in this case. William -- Alex was exposed to some very, very violent and chilling child abuse as a child. His parents, on one occasion, beat -- his mother, at least, beat him on the foot with a hammer and drove a screwdriver in his foot.</s>KAGAN: You know, Gary, understandably, the family of Aleta Bunch is not very sympathetic to your client's cause, and in fact believes -- in fact, believes that your client is faking. Give us an idea of how you believe how mentally ill Alexander Williams is.</s>PARKER: Alexander Williams was mentally ill before. Prison records established that his behavior has been bizarre and psychotic. He often times has crawled on the floor thinking he's a snake talking to green frogs. He attacked one lawyer saying that a red man was in his eye, and thinks Sigourney Weaver is God. And this is the kind of behavior that -- these are state records, though, these are not psychiatrists that we brought in to say these things were happening, this is all documented by the state psychiatrist. It is confirmed by them, and verified by them. So this is not something that was recently fabricated, and I doubt very seriously anyone could have a pattern of this kind of bizarre and psychotic conduct for 13, 14 years.</s>KAGAN: Well -- go ahead, Bruce.</s>FEIN: The facts suggest that with the drugs that are being administered, that kind of bizarre behavior is largely, if not completely, eliminated, and that's the constitutional issue, or the legal issue that would be confronting the courts. Now, what Mr. Parker has elucidated is a whole host of reasons that might be pled to the Georgia Board of Parole and Pardons...</s>KAGAN: Well, that's where we are in this case. I'm sorry, Bruce. That's where we are in this case.</s>FEIN: and asking that the... and asking that the death penalty be released, the citizens of Georgia should decide.</s>KAGAN: I'm sorry, Bruce, I have to cut you off there. Gary, just right now, where we are, the state board has now sent an independent psychiatrist. They need to make a decision. The stay ends tonight at midnight. If you don't get any relief from the state board, where do you go from here?</s>PARKER: Well, I mean -- I think the last resort we would have is to the U.S. Supreme Court. We believe that the Supreme Court has shown some interest, at least, in this whole notion of forcibly injecting someone with medication to make them lucid enough to understand that they are killing them when they kill them.</s>KAGAN: We will be following the case. Gary Parker, Bruce Fein. Gentlemen, thank you for joining our discussion today.</s>FEIN: Thank you.</s>PARKER: Thank you.</s>KAGAN: Fascinating case from right here in Georgia. 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