Tensions Between Police, Protesters Continue Despite De Blasio Call for Unity; Bill de Blasio Versus the NYPD
BANFIELD: No mayor, big city or small, can govern effectively if he doesn't have the local police as his backup. And New York Mayor Bill de Blasio most definitely, right now, does not have the support of New York's finest. The animosity has been simmering below the surface for months, but after two NYPD officers were gunned down in cold blood on Saturday, tempers certainly did flare. Fingers were pointed directly at City Hall. Police unions and others said the killings were the result of de Blasio being, quote, "anti-cop," end quote. And here's why perhaps they felt that way. Mayor de Blasio campaigned against the police tactic known as 'stop and frisk.' It stopped after he became mayor, as well. He told his biracial son to be extra careful in his dealings with police because he's non-white, and he announced that publicly. The mayor is accused of allowing recent anti-police demonstrations to get out of hand and not punishing those who broke the law during those demonstrations. He referred to two police officers who were roughed up by protesters as an "alleged assault," not as an assault. And he's been close with protest organizer Al Sharpton who's been extremely critical of the New York City Police Department. My guests today are Jonathan Moore, who is the attorney for the family of Eric Garner, who, of course, you'll know, died after being put in a police chokehold last July. And former NYPD Captain Mark Novak who has been a guest just this week, as well, on this program. I'm glad the both of you are here because this is one of those weeks where the mayor is calling for a moment of Kumbaya. Look, everybody just take a deep breath, it's a holiday week and we haven't even buried the dead. For the protests to go forward, everyone needs to just have this moment. Is that what Eric Garner's family wants?</s>JONATHAN MOORE, GARNER FAMILY ATTORNEY: Yes. I think they've made a conscious decision to not be involved in anything while these families grieve for their lost sons. They spoke very eloquently on Saturday expressing their deep condolences toward the family. They've experienced the loss of a son, his mother experienced the loss of a son, she understand what that is. They're not interested in ratcheting up the emotion. They're not going to give up their struggle for justice for Eric Garner and for other victims of police abuse, but I think we all would benefit by a cooling off period.</s>BANFIELD: But, Mr. Moore, after the funerals -- and that will be soon -- then what?</s>MOORE: Well, then we have to begin to deal with the issues, again, of what caused the death of Eric Garner. We have to begin to tell the truth about why New York City is in the situation it is. For roughly the last ten years, the police department has been engaged in a policy of stopping and frisking people without reasonable suspicion and because of their race. That's not me saying it, that's not the Garner family saying it, that's the Federal Court and the United States District Court for the Southern District in New York, concluded that after a ten-week trial, after hearing over 100 witnesses, after having 400 exhibits, concluded that the police department, not the officers, the police department, had maintained a policy and practice of racial profiling. When you have that kind of culture within the police department, you're going to have problems like what happened to Eric Garner.</s>BANFIELD: So Mark, what does this mayor have to do? If this is true and the critics are writing it at length today that if you don't have the support of your police department, you can't govern a major city or a minor one. What does he have to do to fix this?</s>MARK NOVAK, FORMER NYPD CAPTAIN: He's going to have to try and restore that trust with the police department.</s>BANFIELD: How?</s>NOVAK: By -- what the officers want to see and what the officers feel is that when they are correct, when the officers are doing the right thing, he wants them to have -- they want him to have their back. The officers understand that if something went wrong, if there is any kind of things that need to be addressed then so be it. Let's look at what happened, we'll take our lumps and move on. But what the officers are not feeling right now is that anybody has their back. They feel under attack. They feel they're being painted with one broad brush stroke. I hear over and over again how we're not supposed to judge an entire community or an entire organization by the actions of one or two people. Well, this is what the officers are feeling right now when you have these protests going about with the signs for racist police, all police are racist, KKK, NYPD, you know, calling for the death of police officers. They feel under attack and they feel that no one, including the mayor -- in fact, some of the officers, whether rightly or wrongly, feel that the mayor has fostered this.</s>BANFIELD: Jonathan, has the message reached the public? Certainly the public -- when I mean the public, those who are taking to the streets and calling the NYPD racist or calling the policies racist, has the message reached the streets? That -- Mayor de Blasio is the first mayor to preside over a city as it has now shifted to majority, minority. Meaning there are more black people, Asian people, Hispanic people than there are white people in this city and that is also reflected on the force. This police force in this city is majority, minority. Is that known?</s>MOORE: No, I think that's a good point and I think people understand that the city has changed. That's why we now have a new mayor who has spoken quite eloquently of his own personal experience, his family's experience, and the need to begin to address some of these issues. We have been in the process over the last several months of meeting with the police department. We, I mean the lawyers and the</s>BANFIELD: Does the Garner family want to be the face of the protests in New York? Michael Brown's family in Ferguson was okay with being the face. I mean, they went to Geneva to be the face of that movement. Do the Garners want to be the face of this movement?</s>MOORE: No, I wouldn't say they want to be the face. I think they were thrust into this situation and they didn't want it and wherever they speak about it they say they wish they weren't here to have to speak about it. They've spoken very eloquently, I think, particularly his mother and his wife, about the pain they feel. And they've actually gone out of their way to say over and over that they're not anti- police, that they support the police. And this movement, to the extent that I can speak for the movement and I certainly wouldn't pretend to do that, but in all the events I've attended, the message hasn't been very clear. We're not anti-police, we're about effective, fair, bias-free, constitutional policing. That's the standard that should apply to all citizens of this city. All residents of the city.</s>BANFIELD: Jonathan Moore and Mark Novak --</s>NOVAK: And I'd like to say that's the goal. What most police officers go out on a daily basis and do.</s>BANFIELD: Somehow they have to figure out how they still have the same message and actually show that they still have the same message to one another. I appreciate the both of you being here. Thank you and happy holidays to you. Ahead this hour, www.noservice.com. No kidding. North Korea's Internet service is out again. Second day now, according to DIN Research. And Kim Jong-un is pointing a finger directly at the United States of America. Ed Royce, who's the Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, is going to be here with the reaction. He's got a couple of suggestions for Kim. You're going to hear what they are next.