Millions March to Protest War With Iraq
ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington,</s>THE CAPITAL GANG. MARK SHIELDS, HOST: Welcome to CAPITAL GANG. I'm Mark Shields, with Al Hunt, Robert Novak, and Kate O'Beirne. Joining us shortly will be Pennsylvania's Democratic governor, Ed Rendell. Around the world, millions marched to protest any military invasion of Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein.</s>TARIQ AZIZ, IRAQI DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: This is the day when all good women and men in the world will show their protest against the war of George W. Bush.</s>GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Size of protest, it's like deciding, Well, I'm going to decide policy based upon a focus group.</s>SHIELDS: An estimated 2 million people marched in Italy and 1 million in Great Britain. Polls showed British public opinion turning against Prime Minister Tony Blair.</s>TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Of course we must take careful account of that, though I think you will also see the same polls show substantial support for action if it comes on the back of a second United Nations resolution.</s>SILVIO BERLUSCONI, ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Someone compared George Bush to Hitler. Someone compared Silvio Berlusconi to Mussolini. And someone, in fact, described Saddam Hussein as being a very brave Muslim Arab citizen. That's absolutely not the case.</s>SHIELDS: CNN-"TIME" poll this week showed Americans disapproving these anti-war demonstrations 54 percent to 40 percent, and a CNN-"USA Today" Gallup poll showed Americans backing the sending of U.S. troops 59 percent to 38 percent. Kate O'Beirne, on the question of war with Iraq, is the United States out of step with the rest of the world?</s>KATE O'BEIRNE, CAPITAL GANG: Mark, whether or not there's a war is up to Saddam Hussein. Rather than trashing George Bush and Tony Blair, the cause of peace would be better served if millions of people had taken to the streets demanding Saddam Hussein give up his weapons. Look, there was a peace movement in the 1930s when, coincidentally, the League of Nations proved itself unable to deal with a dangerous tyrant. There is a coalition of over 40 countries backing a U.S.-led effort, military effort in Iraq, should it come to that, over 40 countries who share our values, the W.N., the willing nations. We don't need world approval to defend our interests, but we do have a large coalition with us should we move against Saddam.</s>SHIELDS: Bob Novak, in 1991, Germany, Japan, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait paid for the war. There were 31 nations who didn't come in cutting deals. Now we have the friends that Kate decides, you can't -- describes. You can't put a price on friendship, except they are, I mean, whether it's Israel or Egypt or Jordan or Turkey, they're all making demands on our treasury.</s>ROBERT NOVAK, CAPITAL GANG: It is not a popular war with the people of the world. It's -- the American people support the president. I think all the American people will support the fighting. Everybody at this table will support the fighting once it begins. But I -- you know, I've been very critical of this war. But I don't like policy being made in the street, Mark. I didn't like it when the people marching in the street on Vietnam, and I think it created a tremendously bad decision by the United States to welch on our obligations. I don't like the measurement. So I agree with -- a measurement by how many millions march. So I agree with the president that you cannot do -- use the demonstrations as a focus group to decide decisions of war and peace. I think he should decide for peace, but not because people march in the street.</s>SHIELDS: Al.</s>AL HUNT, CAPITAL GANG: I guess you can only use focus groups if it's homeland security with this administration, Mark. Look, I -- my great fear of all of this is that the message Saddam is getting is, They won't dare come after me. And he's wrong.</s>O'BEIRNE: Right.</s>HUNT: And I think that's a real, real danger here. I think, I think the president has done a very poor job of articulating a very compelling case, and I think even among some supporters, there remains great apprehension about -- not about the war, but about the aftermath. Two big events over the next week, Mark, one, Hans Blix, the U.N. guy, weapons inspector, told the Iraqis, You have -- you are in violation of the U.N. resolution with your missiles. You have to start to disband them within a week. That's a clear violation. We'll see how they respond. That could change world opinion. Secondly is the U.N. Security Council, where we're going for a second resolution. We have to get nine votes, if the French don't veto. That's a big if. We only have probably five or six to begin with. And picking up on what Bob said earlier, we're going to get those other three or four, if we get them, not through the great logic of our position, but we're going to get them through trade concessions, we're going to get through aid, we're going to buy them. And I'll tell you something, if countries were stock, I'd buy Guinea right now.</s>O'BEIRNE: Look, George Bush and Tony Blair have made an overwhelmingly persuasive case for -- to open-minded countries. Look at the Eastern Europeans and the Central Europeans. They are 100 percent without being bribed, 100 percent with the United States on this. Because they look around themselves and they appreciate, they'd rather rely on the United States for their national security than on France and Germany. They recognize that when there was a bloodbath in the Balkans, French and Germany did nothing, they needed the United States. Now, gratitude is a fleeting emotion, and the French have long since lost any sense of gratitude to us. But the Eastern and Central Europeans have it, and they share our values, and they're with us, and they're going to oppose this French and German power grab within the</s>E.U. NOVAK: Tony Blair...</s>NOVAK: That, that wasn't the point I was making.</s>SHIELDS: No, I know</s>NOVAK: Do you understand what my</s>SHIELDS: ... I understand, but</s>NOVAK: I'm just against...</s>SHIELDS: ... compared -- no, you compared it to Vietnam, and</s>NOVAK: There was a lot of those, a lot of Yakima, Washington, and Little Rock...</s>SHIELDS: ... and there's no</s>NOVAK: ... Arkansas in Vietnam, too.</s>SHIELDS: If I could just complete it. There's no burning the flag. I mean, there isn't, there isn't that sort of a thing.</s>SHIELDS: And these are really major outpourings. When you get 750,000 people in Great Britain...</s>O'BEIRNE: There's plenty. What do you mean, no burning the flag? Maybe they didn't have any matches</s>NOVAK: Can I, can I just make the point I'd like to make, please? And that is that Tony Blair is in a lot of political trouble with his own party and his electorate, and that's why he is desperate to get that second resolution passed. I think they probably will get it passed. But it's a very touchy thing. He is in a lot firm -- less firm shape than President Bush is...</s>O'BEIRNE: He showed a lot of political...</s>NOVAK: ...</s>O'BEIRNE: ... courage.</s>NOVAK: He did, he did.</s>O'BEIRNE: But the thing that would help him more even than a resolution is a swift victory in Iraq.</s>SHIELDS: Al?</s>HUNT: Well, I think we will achieve a swift victory in Iraq, Kate, but I'm afraid that's not when it ends. I'm afraid that's when it begins.</s>NOVAK: And the question is, what is, what is the -- the thing that has worried me and doesn't -- it worries me terribly, Kate, is, is what a lot of people in the -- among the neoconservatives and in the, and in the conservative newsmagazines want is an American imperium where we run the world. I don't want to run the world.</s>O'BEIRNE: I don't want to run the world.</s>SHIELDS: OK...</s>O'BEIRNE: We agree, Bob.</s>NOVAK: Thank you.</s>SHIELDS: And I'll say this, when you buy these countries off, their support, that means -- and Al's right -- if there is an invasion, if there is a military victory, that means the occupation will be by the United States. The United States will be then the first Christian...</s>O'BEIRNE: Mark,</s>SHIELDS: ... Western, pro-Israeli invading and occupier of a land of Muslim holy places.</s>O'BEIRNE: Mark, if a whole bunch of countries, including France and Germany, decide it's in their interest to be there, they'll be there.</s>SHIELDS: Last word, Kate O'Beirne. Later, more on the Iraq war with a direct report from Turkey. But next, make it eight Democrats running for president.