Alex Chadwick concludes his conversation with a former undercover narcotics officer. He is the subject of a new book, A Shadow in the City, by Charles Bowden. After two decades of fighting the drug war, the officer developed new perspectives on that struggle, and the people he incarcerated.
ALEX CHADWICK, host: This is DAY TO DAY.  I'm Alex Chadwick.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Resuming an interview with a former undercover narcotics cop, the subject      of a new book, "A Shadow in the City" by Charles Bowden.  It's a true      story, though the names in it are not.  He's called Joey O'Shay.      Undercover cops face obvious dangers to life and limb and, as Joey      discovers, less obvious ones to the soul.  Toward good ends--winning the      drug war--they lie, deceive and betray.  And after years of this, Joey      says, he came to think differently about whom he was chasing.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: "Mr. JOEY O'SHAY" (Former Undercover Narcotics Officer):  Their family      was everything to them.  They were even willing to do huge jail      sentences--in other words, give up their entire life so that their      families didn't live in abject poverty; that their families could have      things that they didn't have.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Joey O'Shay was so good at undercover that often, if he wasn't      on the actual arrest raid, the people who got caught never understood      that he was a cop.  They thought he'd simply gotten away.  And some of      them would refuse to offer Joey's name to the narcs, protecting him.      That's what Joey finally could no longer live with--their refusal to      betray him, especially a cocaine and heroin broker, Gloria.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: What was your relationship with Gloria?</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  Nothing but admiring her because she had survived in a      extremely violent man's world and did what she did to support her kids      and grandkids. Sadly enough, the emptiness she had made her think that I      cared about her family stuff.  And then in the end, she went down and      never did give me up.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: You put her down?</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  Yes.  Put her away.  I tricked her.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: She's in prison now?</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  Yes.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: For how long?</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  A long time.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Ten years?</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  A little bit more than that.  It's a long time.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: This is a woman that you liked?</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  Liked.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: A woman who liked you a lot.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  More than I realized.  I think that she saw me as someone      different in this dope world because I asked about her kids.  Sadly      enough, that was her vulnerability and I exploited it.  And that's what I      did.  In every other case, that's what I did.  Her only weakness happened      to be...</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Her children.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  ...her children.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Her feelings for her children.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  Her feelings for her children and the fact that I talked to      her like she was a human being.  There was no romance or anything like      that, but in this business, a woman, for business purposes, is willing to      give their body up as collateral, I guess you might say.  And that did      surprise me.  And then I think I even gained more respect, even though      she had not an idea I was a cop, when I just said, `No, you know, this is      business.  We got to--we can't do something like this.'  And I was very,      very ashamed.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: You were ashamed...</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  That she was willing to do that to seal the deal.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: She wanted to sleep with you?</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  Give herself to me.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Yeah.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  (Sighs) And I mean, it was just--even though the guys kidded      with me about it, it made all of us sad.  And they knew it made me sad.      And I said, you know, `We gotta live with things we do to these people.'      I said, `God only knows what'll happen to her kids in the time she's      going to do and everything.  She trusted our asses.'</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Yours.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  And mine.  And they saw it.  And they know, and      they--believe me, none of us feel proud about what we do.  There      isn't--it ain't like scoring touchdowns in the end.  It's like, it's just      life, man.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: I wouldn't expect that you had those feelings about the people      you arrest and put away.  You feel enormous sympathy towards them.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  I think you'd be surprised if the ones of us that you think      are hard cases--and maybe outside we are--but amongst ourselves, in quiet      moments, we admit we have soft hearts.  It didn't mean that I'm going to      condone them dealing drugs.  But I do now allow myself to feel sorry for      them because, in essence, to say they're not human is a damn lie.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Joey O'Shay is still on the same force in a city we are not      going to name and still with the same partner and supervisor he's had for      years. They've transferred out of narcotics, both disillusioned.  This      other officer also agreed to speak with us.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: What do you think of the war on drugs?</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Unidentified Man:  We ain't winning, that's for sure.  I don't think we      are. And I don't see us winning any time in the future.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: What should we do?  What's the answer?</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Unidentified Man:  Probably legalize it.  There's more of it now.  The      quality is higher than it's ever been.  And the price is going down.  So,      I mean, it's not working the way it's been going.  There's too much      politics involved. They cannot shut the border down.  They won't shut the      border down.  And we consume the majority of it that's being sold.  And      the reason why law enforcement people who probably feel that way don't      say it is because it's not the politically correct thing to do, to say,      because you probably wouldn't go far in law enforcement if you did say      it.  So what are we trying to accomplish?</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: See, we've seen a lot of people get hurt, get shot, lose their jobs      fighting this drug war.  And, you know, I gave all I could give, and I      know he gave all he could give.  We don't have anything else to give.      The only alternative that makes any sense to me is to legalize it.  Now      how you police it and you distribute it and that, how you tax it, you      know, that's for someone higher in the food chain, higher than me to      figure out.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: That's the partner and supervisor of the former undercover      narcotics cop we've been speaking with, Joey O'Shay.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Joey lives in a comfortable house on a quiet street in a nice      neighborhood. He's married.  It looks like a good marriage.  He is      reading and rereading a short book of philosophy called "Man's Search For      Meaning" by a concentration camp survivor, Viktor Frankl, who knew a lot      about suffering and enduring and going on.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Mr. O'SHAY:  If nothing else, you can read it, and if you ever feel sorry      for yourself, you'll never feel sorry for yourself again after seeing      what that man survived to only do good for people.  I got some time left      and I'm going to try to help other people.  I'm not going to spend it      plotting their demise, either.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: Joey O'Shay's story is fully told in the new book "A Shadow in      the City" by Charles Bowden.  And my thanks to DAY TO DAY producer Chip      Grabow.</s>ALEX CHADWICK, host: This is DAY TO DAY.  I'm Alex Chadwick.