Warren Jeffs Trial Heads to Jury
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Soledad O'Brien, in for Anderson Cooper tonight. The fate of polygamist leader Warren Jeffs is now in the hands of eight men and women -- tonight, late details from court and a CNN exclusive interview with the mayor of the town that Warren Jeffs once dominated and his sect still does. Also, the star witness, the woman once known as Jane Doe. Well, the veil of secrecy was lifted today. We are going to hear more about how her testimony figured in the case. Plus, sadly, ugly backlash today to yesterday's historic march for the so-called Jena Six. Also today, a new legal development that threatens more racial tension, not less. But we begin with the trial of polygamist Warren Jeffs who reportedly ran his Fundamentalist Church of Latter-Day Saints like a modern-day Machiavelli. Tonight, you are going to hear from people who left the FLDS who tell stories of brainwashing and forced marriages and people living in terror. First, though, what the jury heard and what the jury's now deliberating. Warren Jeffs is on trial on charges of being an accomplice to rape for arranging and sanctioning the marriage of young girls. CNN's Gary Tuchman been covering this saga from the very beginning. He's with us tonight in Saint George, Utah. Hey, Gary. Good evening.</s>GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Soledad, hello to you. The jury has gone home for the night. The five men and three women will be back Monday to deliberate the fate of Warren Jeffs. Warren Jeffs is considered to be a prophet of God by his followers, a descendant of Jesus Christ. But he's accused of being an accomplice to rape. According to prosecutors, he ordered and then presided over the marriage of a 19-year-old follower named Allen Steed with a 14-year- old girl by the name of Elissa Wall. And we're able to say her name and show her picture because she and her lawyer have given us permission to do so. According to prosecutors, Jeffs married them, told them to multiply and replenish the Earth. And then they consummated their marriage. What jurors don't know is that Jeffs is on the FBI's 10- most-wanted list because he's accused of doing this with many other girls under the age of 18. But Elissa Wall is the only one who has come forward. And that's why she's the only witness in this particular case. Defense attorneys, in their closing arguments, referred to Jeffs as a prophet a couple of times. They said he's completely innocent, that he has no responsibility over the sex this couple had.</s>WALTER BUGDEN, ATTORNEY FOR WARREN JEFFS: It happened because Elissa wanted it to happen. It happened because Elissa consented to sexual relations, no different and -- no reason to believe that the sexual relationship, that the sexual component to what happened in the bedroom was any different than any other aspect of their relationship, where Elissa did exactly what Elissa wanted to do.</s>BROCK BELNAP, PROSECUTOR: The evidence presented to you shows, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Elissa Wall would never have had sexual intercourse with Allen Steed. She never would have entered into that bedroom with him, if it were not for the acts of Warren Jeffs. And Warren Jeffs did it intentionally, knowingly, and recklessly.</s>BUGDEN: His church, his religious beliefs, his religion is what's on trial here, being dressed up as a crime called rape.</s>BELNAP: If anyone told a 14-year-old girl that she must get married and that she must</s>TUCHMAN: I sat next to Elissa Wall and her new husband in court today. She looked none too pleased when she was described by defense attorneys basically as an aggressive 14-year-old. Warren Jeffs was very quiet in court today, very serene. So were his 15 or so followers who were sitting in the back of the courtroom. So, the jurors have to decide, is this an attack on religion, or is this the prosecution of a polygamist pervert? -- Soledad, back to you.</s>O'BRIEN: All right, Gary, thanks. Gary, stick around for us, because Gary managed to get an exclusive interview with the mayor of Hildale, an FLDS member. He's going to have that interview shortly. Court TV's Jami Floyd joins us now, along with Monica Lindstrom, former Phoenix prosecutor, currently a civil litigator. Ladies, thanks for talk with us. Jami, we are going to start with you. You have said that this, to you, feels like religious persecution.</s>JAMI FLOYD, COURT TV ANCHOR: Yes.</s>O'BRIEN: Why?</s>FLOYD: It does, because I don't think they have a good case against Warren Jeffs, accomplice to rape. Incredibly difficult in our system to prove rape, let alone accomplice to rape. There's a long history of the authorities trying to bring Warren Jeffs down. And that's what I think this case is really about.</s>O'BRIEN: OK. So, then Monica, what do you think? Do you think, in fact, that this was impossible now for the prosecution to prove this, or, at the very least, very, very difficult?</s>MONICA LINDSTROM, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, it's a difficult crime to have to try to prove, but they have a lot of proof in this case. For example, she is 14 years old. He's 19 years old. And we have got Warren Jeffs, a man with incredible power and standing in his community, telling her that she had to do this. That's where the accomplice part comes in. So, although this type of crime is difficult to prove, the prosecution has enough evidence here to get a verdict.</s>FLOYD: Well, I have to say I disagree with that. I think that the closest they can come to a criminal act is him telling this couple to go forth and multiply. And he counseled them as a religious counselor. And, when we asked in court -- not I, but when lawyers asked this young woman, now 21 years old, "Did Warren Jeffs ever tell you to have sex with your husband"? -- and 14 is the age of consent in Utah -- she said no. She had to admit that. Now, of course, to be fair, they don't talk about sex in this community. But prosecutors have to prove the coercion. And...</s>FLOYD: And, if that's the underlying fact pattern, they don't have it.</s>O'BRIEN: Listen to a little clip of what Elissa said when she was on the stand.</s>ELISSA WALL, ALLEGED VICTIM: I was sobbing. And my whole entire body was just shaking, because I was so, so scared. And he didn't say anything. He just laid me on the bed.</s>O'BRIEN: OK, she's clearly distraught.</s>FLOYD: Yes.</s>O'BRIEN: You have a young woman who's been taught to be submissive, taught she has to obey her husband...</s>FLOYD: Yes.</s>O'BRIEN: ... and the religious leaders as well.</s>FLOYD: Yes.</s>O'BRIEN: Doesn't that -- why doesn't that add up to rape, in your mind?</s>FLOYD: Well, for one thing, it's a classic he says/she says case. He has a completely different story he tells on the stand. They both have credibility problems. They both come across as credible in other ways. So, when you have a classic he says/she says, the burden of proof is on the prosecution. And it almost always inures a benefit to the defense. You can't prove what happened in the bedroom.</s>O'BRIEN: Ironically, one of the he says is really not on trial here.</s>FLOYD: Right.</s>O'BRIEN: Monica, do you think the wrong person, I mean, truly is on -- on trial in this case?</s>LINDSTROM: Well, they definitely have...</s>O'BRIEN: The alleged rapist is not on trial here.</s>LINDSTROM: No, not at all. But Warren Jeffs is, and that's what's important for this case. Do I think that they should have charged the husband? Absolutely, I do. But it's irrelevant for this case, because it's Warren Jeffs who's on trial, and the prosecution has the evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he counseled, aided and encouraged this 14-year- old and this 19-year-old to have sex. And he used his power to do it. And that's why he's on trial.</s>O'BRIEN: If they had gone ahead and actually charged and gone to trial with the husband first, wouldn't, though, that have helped this case?</s>FLOYD: It would have helped the case. And the reason they didn't do it is because I think they knew that they couldn't win it. We have seen this guy on the stand, and he's the anti-rapist. You have a traditional stereotypical notion of what the rapist is, and then Forrest Gump shows up. So, they knew they had a problem with the...</s>LINDSTROM: It doesn't matter if he's nice or not. It doesn't matter if he's nice.</s>FLOYD: We understand -- we understand that rapists come in all shapes, forms, colors and creeds.</s>LINDSTROM: Exactly.</s>FLOYD: We understand that. But to try and prove a rape between these two young people, when they have diametrically opposed stories...</s>LINDSTROM: A 14-year-old and a 19-year-old.</s>FLOYD: There is a reason why they have not prosecuted that rape. There is a reason why. And the reason is because they want Warren Jeffs. They don't care about Mr. Steed and they don't care about the parents, who are, I think, most responsible here. They care about Warren Jeffs. They're trying to bring him down. And that's what this case is all about.</s>O'BRIEN: OK. There was a little movement today. There are 12 jurors who heard the case, five men, seven women. And then the judge dismissed four alternates, leaving five men, three women. Does that, in your mind, make any kind of difference?</s>FLOYD: The gender?</s>O'BRIEN: No, just the new numbers, a new arrangement here.</s>FLOYD: Oh, well, it's interesting. We always think of a jury of 12 and that classic unanimous jury of 12.</s>O'BRIEN: Right. Right.</s>FLOYD: But a lot of states don't have that. And I think, actually, the numbers could make a difference, because you do have a bit of a gender divide. But it's -- it's actually more typical than people think.</s>O'BRIEN: Yes, it sounded kind of odd to me. All right, ladies, I thank you very much, Jami Floyd, of course, and Monica Lindstrom as well. Thanks.</s>LINDSTROM: Thank you.</s>O'BRIEN: Elissa Wall is also suing Warren Jeffs and the FLDS. There she is -- take a look -- in her wedding dress, 14 years old. Well, tonight, her lawyer released a statement which reads in part like this: "All of this is particularly hard for Elissa Wall because of the deep feelings she has for her mother, her younger sisters and the FLDS people. Unfortunately," the statement goes on to say, "child abuse in this community had to be addressed, and that burden fell to her. It was important to her that Warren Jeffs get a fair trial. It was also important for her that the FLDS people see that Mr. Jeffs had a fair trial with every constitutional protection." And the statement ends this way: "Elissa is ready for whatever result. It's now up to the jury. She's spoken the truth, and she is at peace." Kathy Jo Nicholson has been watching the trial with a very special interest. She was one of 13 children raised by three mothers. Her school principal was Warren Jeffs. She left the FLDS when she was 18 years old and has traveled kind of a rocky road since then. Kathy Jo Nicholson is in Charlotte, North Carolina, this evening. Nice to see you, Kathy Jo. I know you have been watching really every moment in this trial. What do you think so far?</s>KATHY JO NICHOLSON, FORMER FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS MEMBER: Well, I have. I have been, actually, glued to the screen. And it -- it's painful. I see these individuals up on the stand, and I see them, the attorneys, pointing to Warren. You know, I feel like Warren is -- he's a terrorist. And these individuals on the stand are -- they're all victims. I feel for -- I really want to commend Elissa Wall.</s>O'BRIEN: Do you think she's coming across as a credible witness?</s>NICHOLSON: I think that she is, to me, yes, because I can feel her -- I can empathize with her. I can feel her pain. I remember going through the motions, going through the movements. I remember the ups and downs. And, you know, it is a he said/she said trial. And the question of, was there rape, you know, Warren is the dictator in that community, and of thousands of those people. He planted his seed and his tentacles are far-reaching. I even question the jury from Washington County. They -- they are mind-controlled. This individual, this Elissa Wall, I really do commend her, because it takes such strength. And you do go back and forth. And -- and I did that.</s>O'BRIEN: What kind of punishment do you think Warren Jeffs deserves, then? You clearly think that he -- he should be considered guilty of the crime, but what kind of punishment?</s>NICHOLSON: I think he's definitely guilty of the crime and many, many more. I think that he -- my hope and prayer is that he will never see the light of day again. I think he's dangerous. He -- people forget -- I know the jury doesn't know, but people in the public forget that he's been on the America's top-10-most- wanted list. And he's -- he's a criminal. He's...</s>O'BRIEN: But you raise an interesting point, which is, but the jury doesn't know. What do you think's going to really happen? Outside of what you believe should happen, what do you think is going to happen? You heard the debate between our two lawyers just a moment ago. Do you think he actually will be convicted? What do you think of the case?</s>NICHOLSON: I think it's dependent on -- on that jury, obviously. And the jury, unfortunately, in my opinion, was selected from Washington County. I have personally visited Washington County and tried to get answers in a personal matter on the death of my brother in Colorado City. And no one speaks there. So, I don't know. Like I stated before, Warren, he reaches far and wide. And I don't -- I have very little hope for this case, unfortunately. I know Warren has got other charges pressed against him. And my hope and prayer is that he will, you know, people will continue to come forward; the truth will come out. I really do commend the bravery of -- of Elissa Wall. I -- I know her mother and her sisters personally, and I feel for them. I feel for her ex-husband.</s>O'BRIEN: It must -- it must be tough for you to watch all this. Kathy Jo Nicholson, thank you. We're -- we're out of time, but your insight is -- is truly fascinating. We appreciate it.</s>NICHOLSON: Thank you.</s>O'BRIEN: Let's get right back to Gary Tuchman. He probably knows the FLDS territory better than any other reporter. He's certainly a familiar face out there by now. Today, it certainly paid off, got an exclusive interview. Tell us about that, Gary.</s>TUCHMAN: Well, that's right. Kathy Jo Nicholson is right. People do not talk there. Forty-five minutes from where I'm standing in Saint George are the twin communities of Hildale, Utah; Colorado City, Arizona. That's where most of Warren Jeffs' followers are. They don't talk. They either don't want to or they're scared to talk to us. We try to get both sides of the story. That's why we keep experiencing this. But we did yesterday have someone consent to sit down with us for the first time on camera. But, before that, we had the same old rejections.</s>TUCHMAN: Sir, I just want to ask you a question, what you think about the Warren Jeffs trial.</s>TUCHMAN: I will help you with the door.</s>TUCHMAN: Well, right after we had those rejections, Mayor David Zitting -- he's the mayor of Hildale, Utah. He's been the mayor for 22 years. He is a devoted member of the FLDS Church, a devotee of Warren Jeffs. There were a lot of things he wouldn't talk about, but he did tell us the feelings, and we got some insights about how people in his town and the FLDS feel about the situation.</s>O'BRIEN: If you will, in a nutshell, tell me what he told you, outside of the fact that he said he didn't want to talk about a lot -- we're clearly having some audio problems there.</s>TUCHMAN: Yes. We apologize for having those audio problems, because, obviously, we wanted you to listen to him, instead of me. But I will summarize what he said. He basically said their main problem is people like me, the outsiders, the news media, who tries to get them to talk. And we explained we're trying to get both sides of the story. They think they're getting an unfair image, because we only do one side of the story. But we explained we do one side of the story because you won't talk to us. So, he said, we're building big fences. We want to keep the outsiders out. We want you to leave. And I asked him, why did you agree to talk to me? And he says, well, I didn't agree to talk to you. I have consented to talk to you on camera because I want to get rid of you. And that was the extent of our conversation, Soledad.</s>O'BRIEN: All right. Well, Gary, it looks like we're going to be able to fix those audio problems. So, will have the chance to hear straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak, and hear the full interview straight ahead. Thanks, Gary, for us. And, as Kathy Jo Nicholson mentioned just a moment ago, dissidents say the FLDS indoctrination starts young. Leaving the sect is very tough.</s>O'BRIEN (voice-over): Imagine never seeing your parents again.</s>STEVEN BATEMAN, FORMER FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS MEMBER: My name is Steven Bateman.</s>O'BRIEN: Imagine having to learn to live in a you had never been prepared for.</s>FAWN BROADBENT, FORMER FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS MEMBER: My name is Fawn Broadbent.</s>O'BRIEN: Imagine having this for a memory of your mother.</s>BROADBENT: One day, my mom came into my room, and she sat on my bed. And she said, sometimes, I wish I could just open your brain and brainwash you, like I have been brainwashed.</s>O'BRIEN: Next, meet the children of Warren Jeffs' sect. They don't have to imagine. Later: Thousands demanded justice. Here's what they got today, more hatred, more nooses, and that's not all. We're in Louisiana, where new developments in court and on the ground are ratcheting up tension over the Jena Six -- tonight on 360.