Major Development as Russia Bombs Syria From Planes Based in Iran; British Extremist Anjem Choudary Found Guilty of Inspiring Support for ISIS
HALA GORANI, HOST: A significant step: Russian warplanes leave for foreign bombing missions from a base inside Iran. It is the first time a major power has done so. We are live in Berlin, Moscow, and Istanbul for more this hour. Also coming up, from classmate to committed opponent: we speak to a doctor who studied medicine with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Now he treats patients in rebel-held Aleppo. Plus this.</s>YULIA EFIMOVA, RUSSIAN OLYMPIC SWIMMER: This upset me so much, especially from Michael Phelps and girls like Lilly King and everybody.</s>GORANI: Backlash and bullying? How one swimmer says she experienced the anti-doping feeling in Rio firsthand. An exclusive interview is coming up. All right. I'm Hala Gorani. Becky is off. We will have those stories until a moment. First, though, this just in to CNN. A British court has found a radical Islamist preacher guilty of inviting people to support ISIS. You may be familiar with this man, Anjem Choudary, he has been a vocal backer of extremism for years inside Britain. And police say he has links to terrorists. One of his associates was also convicted in the trial. To look at what this verdict means, our Nima Elbagir joins me in the studio. So, Nima, first of all, he is found guilty of, quote, inviting support for ISIS. What is the how is the official charge here worded?</s>NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN INTERANTIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, the British police say essentially it is encouraging support for terror a organization. In essence, he pledged allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. And in a very interesting interpretation of the law, the British courts have said therefore by legitimatiziiing, as someone who has such public standing, legitimatizing ISIS he is essentially encouraging others to join ISIS and is therefore responsible for those who were radicalized. What has been so interesting is this is someone who managed to say the wrong thing in the right way for about 20 years in British public life. Take a look at this. I just want to walk you through some of his statements.</s>ELBAGIR: For years, Anjem Choudary appeared to revel in his tabloid designation as Britain's most hated man. In his 20 years of public appearances and private preaching, Choudary always appeared to skirt just the right side of the law, backing extremism but no proof of actually inciting violence. It was the 49-year-old's pledge of allegiance in 2014 to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and ISIS that brought him under increased scrutiny and led to his arrest. British authorities say they were able to link him to the battlefields of Iraq and Syria. Police say they don't know exactly how many of the 850 Brits who traveled to Syria were directly influenced by Choudary, but called him a key figure in the radicalization and recruitment drive. When last out on bail, Choudary conducted this interview with us, admitting his support for ISIS, a terror group that proudly promotes rape, slavery, and mass killings, claiming religious obligation.</s>ANJEM CHOUDARY, PLEDGED SUPPORT TO ISIS: I believe that Abu Bakr al- Bagdadi, Allah protect him, of course has brought in the dawn of a new era.</s>ELBAGIR: The reality is that you do have an impact.</s>CHOUDARY: (inaudible) everywhere in the world.</s>ELBAGIR: Authorities say Choudary has been linked to the radicalization of a string of the terrorists who have stood trial in the UK over the past 15 years. He can be seen here in BBC footage at a protest with Michael Adebolajo, later convicted of the violent murder of British soldier Lee Rigby, and was among those close to Al-Muhajiroun founder Omar Bakri Muhammad, later banned from Britain over links to al Qaeda. Sadat Dudar (ph), who was suspected by authorities of replacing Jihadi John as ISIS executioner, another Choudary associate. The two are seen together here after the 2011 killing of Osama bin Laden. Choudary consistently in the circumference of those who would go on to commit acts of violence. The court has now found Choudary and his associate Mohammed Mizanur Rahman guilty of inviting support to a prescribed organization, a charge he denied. But now it could see him jailed for up to ten years.</s>ELBAGIR: In this new reality we are living in in Europe, while this might not be equivalent to say providing material support or recruiting, what British authorities are essentially saying, the message they are sending is, you are responsible for those killed because they have been inspired by your example.</s>GORANI: Right. And so in a sense it's you are responsible for what you say out loud that might lead some people to believe this ideology should be espoused in one way or another.</s>ELBAGIR: and that the lines given how high the stakes are, they are not as clear as people like Choudary once bet they were.</s>GORANI: And Choudary, as you mentioned, basically made a living of saying horrific things, but always careful on ot to say something could get him in legal trouble. But those days are over.</s>ELBAGIR: And staying on the periphery of some pretty horrifying individuals, and always trying to get away with never himself ever being associated with the horror of their acts.</s>GORANI: And so the maximum sentence is ten years? When do we expect to hear that?</s>ELBAGIR: The 6th of September.</s>GORANI: And so he was not the only one. He had another -- he had a partner with him, Mohammed Rahman. So, they were both convicted of the same crime.</s>ELBAGIR: And for pledging allegiance on the same day. And they were both associated with the founder Al-Muhajiroun who was previously -- again, these people who go on to do awful things, he was previously associated with al Qaeda and now is actively recruiting for</s>ISIS. GORANI: But it is -- and we were discussing this before the program, this is something difficult to quantify, right, because you can say someone is saying I pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, how do you measure how many people may have joined the organization as a result of that? Is it the more high-profile you are, the more you are likely perhaps to attract people to these causes? ELBAGIR; And what was interesting in terms of legal precedent the prosecutor didn't have to proof a tangible number, what he said, the quote was out of the 850 Britons that have gone to Syria, we belief that Choudary and his associate are responsible for the radicalization of a number of them. So the burden of proof was almost more on Choudary to prove that his words didn't lead to these people going to Syria and Iraq.</s>GORANI: All right, thanks very much, Nima Elbagir. More on this breaking news. Anjem Choudary, the extremist preacher there, convicted in a British court of inviting support for ISIS. We'll have a lot more on that in the coming hours with Nima. Now to a bombing run in Syria that marks a dramatic new phase in Russia's air campaign against the rebels. For the first time, Moscow is turning to a powerful ally for help, its warplanes used a base in Iran to conduct missions in Syria today flying over Iraqi air space. Russia's defense ministry released these pictures saying ISIS and al- Nusra targets were hit in three provinces. Donald Trump, meantime, is calling for closer American ties with Russia in the fight against ISIS. The Republican presidential nominee unveiled his strategy for defeating Islamic terrorism on Monday.</s>DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I become president, the era of nation building will be brought to a very swift and decisive end. A new approach, which must shared by both parties in America, by our allies overseas, and by our friends in the Middle East must be to halt the spread of radical Islam. I also believe that we can find common ground with Russia in the fight against ISIS.</s>GORANI: We have reporters around the world covering these developments for you. We are joined now by three senior international correspondents. Fred Pleitgen is in Berline, Ben Wedeman is in Istanbul, and Matthew Chance is in Moscow. Matthew, I want to start with you, first of all. This is the first time it appears as though Russia is using Iran in order to conduct airstrikes inside Syria. Why the strategic decision at this stage?</s>MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's important for a couple of reasons. It's important militarily, because it brings those Russian long-range T-22 bombers closer to the target zone. It means they don't have to fly two hours from southern Russia, they just have to fly 30 minutes or so across into Syria. And so that means they have to carry less fuel, and so they can carry more bombs. And so potentially this could represent the means to a significant escalation of Russia's air war in Syria. Strategically, it's quite interesting as well, because you say it's the first time Russia has used a third country as a base for bombing Syria. It's the first time Iran, of course, has allowed another country to use one of its air bases to carry out military strikes as well since 1979 and the Islamic Revolution. So, it's important in that sense, too. And I think it just shows how much bigger Russia is growing in the region of the Middle East, it's increasing its footprint. It's showing that it has influence not just in Syria, but now in Iran as well. And it is a power in the region to be dealt with.</s>GORANI: And Fred Pleitgen, you travel to Iran a lot. What is in it for Tehran?</s>FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think from the Iranian side you can see that there is much closer cooperation with the Russians. And it's something, Hala, that's been building up over the past couple of months. The Russians and the Iranians signed an agreement in January vowing closer cooperation in what they call the fight against terrorism, which of course essentially is the Russian bombing campaign in Syria, and then of course Iran's ground forces which are active in Syria as well. So, you can see the cooperation evolving. And we also have to keep in mind that, yes, the Russians are putting their bombers on that base there in western Iran, but the Russians are also asking the Iranians more. They're also asking them for overflight rights, for their cruise missiles over Iranian territory. That's something that the Iranians announced today. And then also the Iranians have said that there is a general understanding that the two nations would share their facilities inside Iran to continue their campaign in Syria. So, we have seen a deepening of the relationship between Russia and Iran, especially pertaining to Syria itself. And it's really a change from what we saw, for instance, in 2013, 2014 where the two sides, although both of them supported Bashar al-Assad, were often at odds as to how to move forward. The Iranians for their part calling for more negotiations, even putting forward political plans for some sort of -- I wouldn't say transition but at least softening of Bashar al-Assad's power. That's something that the Russians didn't want. So, now it seems as though both sides have aligned their goals on the battlefield, but probably politically as well, Hala.</s>GORANI: And Ben Wedeman, what impact on the ground is this expected to have, this much closer partnership between Russia and Iran?</s>PLEITGEN: Well, certainly, it does show the fact that the Russians are playing a much larger role. And for instance, if you look at Iraq, the Russians have provided the Iraqis, since 2014, with a significant amount of weaponry. And when I was last in Baghdad speaking to Iraqi officials, they would complain that the Americans, for instance, you would order from them some F-16 fighter planes, and it would take years before they were delivered. When they requested from the Russians attack helicopters, it took a matter of weeks. And it's important to keep in mind also that those Russian long-range bombers are flying over Iraq into Syria from Iran with Iraqi permission. And therefore, the Russians are also beginning to have a much better relationship with the Iraqis as well. And I think on the ground in Syria, what we're going to be seeing is a significant escalation of the Russian air campaign against the rebels in particularly Aleppo when of course they were recently able to break the siege on that city. So, this may be part of a counter-offensive to re- establish the primacy of the Syrian regime for one thing, but also to reapply even more intense pressure on the already battered rebel parts of Aleppo -- Hala.</s>GORANI: And Matthew, what is the longer term outlook here for Russia? What does it ultimately want to achieve in the Middle East? I mean, clearly it's helping Bashar al-Assad. It has warplanes taking off from Iran. What does it want to achieve in the longer term?</s>CHANCE: Well, I think it wants to achieve a re-establishment, a reasserting of itself on the international stage. I mean one of the reasons that Russia went into Syria in the first place was because Syria is a long standing ally of Russia. It saw -- Moscow saw Syria as its last kind of foothold, its toehold in the Middle East. If Syria fell, the thinking was here, then so did Russian influence across the entire region. Well, the Russians have succeeded in bolstering Bashar al-Assad. He's not going to fall any time soon. And neither using Syria as a platform to reassert influence across the entire region. You heard Ben talk about Iraq there and the growing relationship between Russia and Baghdad. And of course now these planes based in Iran as well. Russia is really emerging now as a significant player, it seems, in the Middle East.</s>GORANI: And also speaking -- I want to go back to Fred with Iran. I mean, in terms of regional influence, if you look at Syria and other conflicts as a proxy war between Shiite Iran, and Sunni Saudi Arabai, Qatar, that block versus Iran, Iran has influence over Iraq. It now has Assad, its ally in Syria, bolstered inside Syria bolstered by Russia. It has got sanctions lifted and a nuclear deal with the United States. Would it feel now particularly emboldened?</s>PLEITGEN: Well, I think it certainly already feels emboldened, especially by a lot of sanctions falling away after the end of the nuclear agreement. And you can feel how the Iranians are trying to expand their influence, especially in Syria, but also trying to steer a lot of the politics there in Iraq as well. So, you can certainly see how Iran has gotten a lot bolder also in light of the fact that they expect their economy to grow a lot for them to become a lot stronger also as far as defense is concerned as well. They are already scoping out deals with the Russians to potentially buy things like aircraft, buy things like aircraft, buy things like ground force vehicles as well, that's something that's still in the early stages, but I do think that the Iranians in the next couple of years are looking to a major expansion in that region. And of course they see Bashar al-Assad as one of their strategic allies as well. The Iranians at this point in time very much committed to keeping Assad in power, and so therefore, also pouring more forces into that Syria theater as well. You can see that in the reaction to when the broke that siege of Aleppo, that it was the Iranians and Hezbollah that started moving massive forces into that area very, very quickly saying definitly we are not going to allow this city to fall into the hands of the rebels, Hala.</s>GORANI: And Ben, ultimately the one power that is losing the most influence here in all this is the United States?</s>WEDEMAN: It certainly has ceding some ground to the Russians, but I wouldn't say it's losing all of its influence or its influence. At this point, it is still the major backer, for instance, of the Iraqi government in its fight against ISIS. And it can claim some part of the credit in rolling back ISIS, which has lost about half its territory in Iraq and about 20 percent of it in Syria. And it is also a main backer of the Syrian Democratic Forces, which have, for instance, recently retaken a town of Manbij in northern Syria, that is the largest town taken by ISIS -- rather that was occupied by ISIS in Syria itself. But the United States is in a very awkward position. On the one hand, it's supporting the government in Iraq, which is fighting ISIS; on the other hand it's supporting rebels who are fighting the regime in Syria, which is a friend with Iraq, which is a friend of Iran, which -- and of course Iraq is an ally with the United States. So, it's getting very complicated, and even more so now that the Russians are playing an even larger role in the region -- Hala.</s>GORANI: We usually need some sort of flow chart when we start getting into alliances these days in the Middle East. Thanks very much. Ben Wedeman is in Istanbul, Fred Pleitgen in Berlin, and Matthew Chance in Moscow. A lot more to come this -- on this program. CNN talks talk to the Russian swimmer who for many has become a symbol of her country's doping scandal. She responds in an exclusive interview after being booed in Rio. First, though, I'll be joined by a former classmate of Syria's president who smuggled himself into Aleppo to save people from the bombs dropped by Bashar al-Assad's military. We'll be right back.