President Trump Has Said He Is Eager To Talk To Mueller
CABRERA: Now to the dueling memos controversy. The President decision this weekend to block the release of the Democratic rebuttal to a GOP memo on alleged surveillance abuses at the FBI. A larger question though is looming over the White House tonight. And that is what should the President do about special counsel Robert Mueller's interview request. Agree or refuse? Trump has said he is eager to talk to Mueller. His lawyers are less than keen on this idea. Let's discuss with CNN presidential historian Tim Naftali, former director of the Nixon presidential library and Kim Wehle, former associate independent counsel in the whitewater investigation. So CNN's Marshal Cohen reports President Trump gave at least seven depositions in the last decade that were publicly released. And they all seemed to show a pattern that Trump is often ill prepared. Let's watch.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you do to prepare for the case today? The deposition.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would say virtually nothing. I spoke with my counsel for a short period of time. I just arrived here and we proceeded to the deposition.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. So you didn't look at any documents or --</s>TRUMP: No, I didn't. I don't have my glasses. I'm a disadvantage because I didn't bring my glasses. This is such small writing.</s>CABRERA: And then you look at again, Marshal Cohen, as he went through this in a 2006 deposition, for example, he Trump admitted that he lied or misled with some of his public statements some 30 times. And Tim, we know Mueller's investigation is no ordinary case.</s>TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: No, it is not ordinary case. And if you look at the deposition that Mr. Trump did in the Trump University case, he more often than not said I do not recall. I do not recall. I do not recall. And that was important because --</s>CABRERA: Because he has such a great memory.</s>NAFTALI: Well, not just that. It is because he was selling the point of Trump University was that these were hand-picked experts in real estate. Hand-picked by Mr. Trump. And he was ask, do you know so and so? I think. I don't recall. I don't know. I don't know. So all these people - all these instructors that were apparently hand-picked by him, he couldn't recall a single name. His problem in this instance if he should go before Mr. Mueller's team or Mr. Mueller himself is that they are going to be well-prepared. They are going to have chronologies. They are going to have documents. They are going to be able to ask very, very precise questions. And OK, I don't recall about something that happened eight months ago, maybe that works. I don't recall about something that happened a year ago or less than a year ago, that doesn't work so well. So I think this well be a very uncomfortable situation for the President if he and his lawyers decide that he should do it. I just don't think he can do it.</s>CABRERA: CNN's reporting, Kim, is that the President actually is feeling confident that his experience would help him handle this and based on previous losses testifying under oath from his real estate business that that actually is going to benefit him, he thinks. The source telling us he thinks he can work this. So do you think the President realizes just how high the stakes are?</s>KIM WEHLE, FORMER ASSOCIATE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL IN THE WHITEWATER INVESTIGATION: Well, it is hard to know what the President realizes. But you mentioned the stakes and there really is a difference between a civil deposition and testimony either before a prosecutor or even more seriously before the grand jury. I mean, the difference is that in the criminal context someone who lies can actually go to jail. And what they say can send them to jail for other actions. So I think in this instance, the President would be very well advised. And I'm sure his lawyers are telling him, this is a new day and new way. We need to thoroughly prepare. That said, I tend to agree with those who have suggested that a sit-down voluntary interview with Mr. Mueller's team doesn't benefit the President personally in any conceivable way. It only potentially makes things murkier for him. Although o do think for the American public that would be the right thing to do so we can move forward with this investigation which I think needs to be brought to conclusion notwithstanding all of the roadblocks that seem to be politically being thrown in front of it.</s>CABRERA: Kim, let me ask you about this, look through the prism of another case you know a lot about, Whitewater. So CNN's preview decades of court records reviewing the details of how Whitewater independent counsel Ken Starr forced a grand jury appearance from President Bill Clinton. What do you think Trump's legal team can learn from this in terms of defending the President?</s>WEHLE: Well, certainly they - and they already know that if it comes to a subpoena, there isn't really an objection. Historically at least legally that the President can make. I say historically because we are in a world where this President doesn't appear to respect the kind of processes and legal norms that we historically with prior Presidents have been known to enjoy and that's why I have said, you know, that this whole issue raises is really big separation of powers questions in addition to being, you know, former justice department lawyer as well as independent counsel, I'm a full-time constitutional law professor. And I think, you know, the issue here that might be different from Bill Clinton is Bill Clinton complied with the subpoena. And we just don't know what Mr. Trump would do. And if he challenges the legality of it, you know, it could really, really get extremely traumatic for the country.</s>CABRERA: Tim, there is a new CNN piece out that just came out yesterday, legendary journalist Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein saying that they see what is happening now with President Trump as eerily similar to what happened with Richard Nixon right before the Saturday night massacre, which was the 1973 President Richard Nixon fired the special prosecutor investigating him. And then both the attorney general and deputy attorney general resigned. Well, I had a chance to speak with Carl yesterday. And we got his take on how he sees the parallels between these two different presidents given the investigation of each of them. Watch.</s>CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: We have no reason to believe almost anything that Donald Trump says. What is so extraordinary about him and his presidency is the incessant compulsive continual lying. This is not me sitting here as a commentator, saying this is demonstrable, reportorial truth. The number of lies, the consistency of lying by the President of the United States, it is extraordinary. We have never have a President who lies like this. Certainly in the modern era, even Nixon.</s>CABRERA: Tim, you heard the former director of Nixon Presidential library. What do you make of Carl's characterization of President Trump's truthfulness versus Richard Nixon?</s>NAFTALI: Well, I think Richard Nixon was a much more careful liar. He did lie about the basic key issues in Watergate scandal which is why ultimately he had to resign. But he was a lawyer. He was trained as a lawyer. By the way, I think that makes his lies just as bad because he knew what he was doing. He would skirt the truth to protect himself. Even if it meant hiding a crime.</s>CABRERA: He knew how to do it.</s>NAFTALI: He knew how to do it. He knew how to</s>CABRERA: Didn't matter that point because he wasn't President any more?</s>NAFTALI: Perjury always matters. It just that I think the government was tired of going after him. The point though is that Nixon, President Nixon, was parsimonious in his lying until the last year of Watergate, when the White House just sent out a lot of information. This President is totally different. Because this President has no legal background and doesn't respect the norms of the presidency. Richard Nixon for all of his faults respected the norms of our constitutional system in the end. In the end when the Supreme Court said you have to turn over the tapes, he did. Even though the Supreme Court is a co-equal branch with the office of the President.</s>CABRERA: All right. Thank you so much, Tim Naftali, Kim Wehle. So interesting, all of it. We will have you back, both back, to discuss as we move forward. Thanks again. Straight ahead, a commercial airliner crashes in Russia killing all 71 people on board. Details are still coming in. We will bring them to you live here in the CNN NEWSROOM.