Catholic Crisis Goes to Court
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. Today, the Catholic crisis goes to court. One retired priest arraigned, and a cardinal ordered to give a deposition. Is Cardinal Law a flight risk? And what will he tell the court? Also, I want to hear from you about mean girls. Is there a cruel streak running through our middle schools these days? As if! Anyway, give me a call at 1-800-310-4CNN and e-mail me at talkback@cnn.com. And here's what else we're talking about today.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to see him feel the pain his victims are feeling.</s>NEVILLE: A retired priest goes to court charged with repeatedly raping a young boy. Today, Paul Shanley faces a steep bail to keep him from fleeing.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The court is setting bail in the amount of $750,000 cash.</s>NEVILLE: Now concerns that the man accused of protecting Shanley could take flight. The court orders Cardinal Law to tell his story. Just what did he know and when did he know he it?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would you think I would allow the department to remove this child's sibling without my consent? Why would you even think that, and why would you try? What is the department hiding?</s>NEVILLE: Fury from the bench. A Florida judge is outraged over the case of Rilya Wilson, missing for more than a year. Now the governor wants an investigation. What's next, and where is Rilya? And are little princesses growing up to be mean queen bees? Meet an author who says middle school girls aren't all sugar and spice. OK, there is a whole lot going on in Boston today. Retired priest Paul Shanley pleaded not guilty to rape charges and attorneys for several alleged victims are filing a motion to keep Cardinal Law in the area until he gives a deposition. Now joining us here to talk about this is Chuck Colbert. He is of the "National Catholic Reporter," joining us from Boston. Hi, Chuck.</s>CHUCK COLBERT, "NATIONAL CATHOLIC REPORTER": Hello.</s>NEVILLE: Tell me this. In addition to the $750,000 bail posted in this -- or, I should say, exactly requested -- Hello, Arthel, I am with you. All right, sorry about that, Chuck -- in addition to the $750,000 bail, what other stipulations did the court place on the Paul Shanley case?</s>COLBERT: Well, he pleaded in the arraignment not guilty to the charges of rape -- 6-year-old -- and then -- I'm hearing some back talk in my...</s>NEVILLE: I understand how that works. It can throw you off, can't it?</s>COLBERT: It was based on one potential alleged victim, and the district attorney made the point that they were talking with other people, as well, and that there were many of the cases that were beyond the statute limitations. That's generally what happened.</s>NEVILLE: Let me just jump in here, and talk about the passports and that Paul Shanley had to give up his passport and things like that, talk about that for me.</s>COLBERT: He was -- apparently, according to the "Boston Herald," today reported that he gone to Thailand for a period of time, and returned, and the attorney for Shanley argued that because he had been at this residence in San Diego for three years, he was not a risk. And that he was older and, you know, was just simply not thinking of leaving the country.</s>NEVILLE: Let me ask you this now. Do you know if at this point has anyone posted bail for Paul Shanley, and...</s>COLBERT: No, the decision on that I think was postponed until tomorrow. I think it's being reviewed by the superior court in Middlesex County. He was arraigned in front of the district court and I understand that was delayed for final determination tomorrow or Thursday</s>NEVILLE: And at this point there is no talk of a trial date yet, right?</s>COLBERT: No.</s>NEVILLE: Yeah, and what about Cardinal Law? Now I don't know if you know this or not, but is there any sort of immunity or something that the Vatican can grant Cardinal Law so that he would be immune from the laws?</s>COLBERT: I understand that if he were to hold a state level department job, like an ambassadorship or such, that he would have diplomatic immunity. I understand too, that the judge, in ordering the deposition moved up to tomorrow morning, said that she was concerned about whether or not the Pope would call him back to Rome and for that reason she wanted to move this all up. The other piece of this is that because of the shuffling and the reshuffling and the lost trust in this business with the finance council's vote to not go along with the settlement, it moved this all up very quickly, and she really felt, the judge felt, that he needed to answer some questions, and that while this agreement has been pending, a lot of time has been lost. So that's generally what is going on with the cardinal and the deposition, which is set for tomorrow in court. The judge will be there for questions and for objections as they arise.</s>NEVILLE: OK, Chuck, stand by for me for a moment, because there are so many questions surrounding this story, including what does this all mean for the Catholic church in Boston? And what is next for Cardinal Law. We're gonna bring in Patrick Scully into the conversation. He's the director of communications for the Catholic League. And Richard Sipe, author of "Sex, Priests and Power." Welcome to both of you, gentlemen.</s>PATRICK SCULLY, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, CATHOLIC LEAGUE: Hi, Arthel, thank you for having me back.</s>NEVILLE: Patrick, good to see you. Patrick, help me clear up something here. OK, everybody wants to know -- Cardinal law is to be deposed tomorrow. Is there any way between now and then that the Vatican, the Pope, anybody can do something to get him out of this?</s>SCULLY: No, and the thought that he is going to take off to Rome any time soon is just rank speculation. In fact the story out of the Boston papers about how he was scheduled to go back to Rome before June is based on anonymous sources. As a former reporter myself, I'm always careful about those. The deposition is moved up, the wheels of justice are turning. The cardinal will have his say, tell what he knows tomorrow in the deposition. So I don't think we have to worry about any sort of James Bond escaping in the middle of the night. The cardinal is cooperating at this point. He has turned over thousands files on this guy Shanley, and I saw during the News Alert, Shanley's being arraigned -- I mean, this guy turns my stomach. There's not a Catholic in this country that isn't disgusted by this man and by what has happened in the scandal.</s>NEVILLE: Patrick, I am going to jump in there on you, because there are some people who are very, very disappointed in Cardinal Law, and perhaps disgusted by him, because in fact he has, you know, allegedly hidden this whole story for so many years, and so could possibly have avoided other victims from being hurt in all of this.</s>SCULLY: Well, that's a major problem and that's led to the speculation and the talk about his possible resignation. There's a real crisis of confidence of the people in the great city of Boston and the surrounding area about whether the cardinal can continue to lead. That is not for the Catholic League to say, but I certainly think it is something that needs to be discussed. So yeah, we need some answers. I think the short answer as to why he didn't boot this guy as soon as he knew something was up, is because in a lot of ways the church didn't have the courage, didn't want confrontation, didn't want scandal, didn't want to rock the boat. But instead of not rocking the boat, they almost sank the ship. It's time to right it and get it on, that's what's going to happen tomorrow at the deposition and beyond. Richard Sipe, what do you think of that? They did not want to rock the boat, they didn't want to create a scandal, did not want to tarnish the image of the church. These people were hurt. What do you think of all of this?</s>RICHARD SIPE, RETIRED CATHOLIC PRIEST: And he added, and almost sank the boat. He is very right and I think he is right on in his understanding of this, and what is going on at this time. The point is that the problem is far bigger than Boston. I live out here he near Los Angeles and I know that what is coming up in Los Angeles is just as great if not greater than what happened in Boston. And Cardinal Mahoney actually was the first cardinal to pose that I know of, in the United States, but it was not a case that where he was bishop, it was before -- activity before he was a cardinal, Cardinal Law's deposition is the first deposition of a cardinal of activity that was carried on while he was a cardinal. It is very significant. Very significant move.</s>NEVILLE: Chuck, let me get you in here before we go to a break. What do you think -- and you cover the Catholic Church -- what do you think is going to happen ultimately to the Catholic Church?</s>COLBERT: Well I am very encouraged by the laity's ability to differentiate between the leadership and the institutional pieces, the mistakes that were made and the saving truths of the faith. No doubt people are upset and discouraged and many people are long gone from the Catholic Church, but those who are staying want a voice and they also are not exiting at this point. I think that the cardinal will answer questions, I think that we are still getting behind this, scandal, and the questions and answers will be numerous, it will play out in the press, in the court of public opinion, and you know, and among the Catholic laity and the faithful. I think we are just in the beginning stages of this.</s>NEVILLE: And everybody has their eyes on this. Chuck Colbert, thank you very much for that report. Timothy, I know you are standing by. I have some people in the audience who would like to speak out. And Richard and Patrick, if you could stand by for me, we will talk a little bit more about this on this Catholic Church crisis, when we come back, so don't go my where.