Bolton Book on Ukraine Freeze
BERMAN: Breaking overnight, explosive, new allegations that really could change the course of the Senate impeachment trial. And if they don't, the question is, why not? "The New York Times" reports this morning that former National Security Adviser John Bolton, in a draft manuscript of his new book, says that the president personally tied aid in Ukraine to an investigation of the Biden. Joining us now is Jonathan Swan, national political reporter for "Axios." First of all, Jon, long time listener, first time caller. I think this is the first time we've had you on NEW DAY. That's a climate in and of itself. You matched Maggie and Michael Smith's reporting and have some additional reporting on a little bit of the timing here. December 30th was the date that Bolton and his team submitted this to the White House for the national security review, basically.</s>JONATHAN SWAN, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "AXIOS": Right.</s>BERMAN: But "The New York Times" knew about the content of the Bolton book before you say the press shop at the White House did. What's the significance there?</s>SWAN: The significance there is it helps explain why this rattled the White House so much when "The New York Times" approached them for comment yesterday. The White House press and communications shop, the people who are charged with crafting narrative, responding, getting out if front of damaging stories, did not know about the existence of this manuscript, let alone the details. So Maggie Haberman, Michael Schmidt at "The New York Times" found out about the manuscript, found out the details -- the relevant details of the manuscript, which contradict the central claim of the Trump defense that he never explicitly tied the holdup of aid to investigations of his potential political rival Joe Biden and the people who are charged with responding this find out from "The New York Times." So, I mean, it sort of shows a number of things, the lack of coordination inside, but also just the way this is moving and the fact that this story, more than any other story during impeachment, actually has the potential to change the dynamics on Capitol Hill.</s>CAMEROTA: But, Jonathan, just help us explain this.</s>SWAN: Yes.</s>CAMEROTA: Did John Bolton's people give it to the National Security Council or to the White House? And if they gave it to the White House --</s>SWAN: Correct, the National Security Council.</s>CAMEROTA: OK, so they gave it to the National Security Council that then, we understand, shared it with the White House. So did the president know about this before last night?</s>SWAN: Well, that itself part I don't -- so the second part that you just said, I haven't personally confirmed. I don't know who -- so they -- there's a -- there's a specific pre-publication team. It's a -- you know, this happens regularly for these kind of books, you know, checking for classified information. They're career bureaucrats. And I don't know yet. I still haven't been able to confirm exactly who within the broader White House knew about this manuscript, saw the manuscript. I just don't know. We haven't had on the record a comment yet from the White House legal team, the White House Counsel. It's hard to fathom that they haven't seen it. But, again, I don't have reporting to confirm that they had seen it.</s>BERMAN: Yes. And, of course, the big question is, does the president's defense team in the impeachment trial, have they seen it? Because when you have a lawyer --</s>CAMEROTA: It doesn't sound like they did this morning.</s>BERMAN: When you have a lawyer --</s>SWAN: Right.</s>BERMAN: We don't know. You have a lawyer saying there is simply no evidence anywhere that President Trump ever linked security assistance to any investigations. Either he knew and is lying when he says that --</s>SWAN: Right.</s>BERMAN: Or he didn't know. We simply don't know the answer to that. The big picture, though, Jonathan, you said, this has the potential to change the course of the impeachment trial. Does that mean you think this brings it closer to having the 51 votes to get witnesses?</s>SWAN: I do because you already have two Republican senators, Mitt Romney of Utah, Susan Collins of Maine, who have strongly signaled that they want to see witnesses. So you need two more. And we know that Lamar Alexander of Tennessee has been equivocating. We know that Lisa Murkowski of Alaska has been equivocating. And, again, I thought, based on all my reporting in conversations with Senate Republican aides as of 24 hours ago that there was virtually no chance that they could get the four votes for witnesses. But if anything was going to change that, it was going to be first-hand revelations from someone who actually had a conversation with President Trump. Everyone I've spoken to in the last 24 hours think it moves the ball closer. But, again, you never know with these things. The Trump team obviously is heading to The Hill today to try and persuade those four or five Republicans that they have everything they need and that they don't need to subpoena John Bolton.</s>CAMEROTA: Jonathan Swan, thank you. We really appreciate you sharing your reporting with us this morning.</s>SWAN: Thank you.</s>CAMEROTA: One week to go until the Iowa caucuses and Bernie Sanders is surging. A live report from the ground in Iowa, next.