Flooding the Border; Talking Immigration; Too Busy Working; Strictly Legal
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening again. The battle on the border. No simple answers, only complicated questions.</s>ANNOUNCER: Millions of illegals. Should they be forced out or given amnesty? Call in with your questions on immigration reform. Iran's bold nuclear ambitions. Tonight, a rare look inside the country. You may be surprised what people there really think. Plus, the Duke sex allegations. DNA tests and no matches. And the public battle continues.</s>MICHAEL NIFONG, DURHAM DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It doesn't mean nothing happened. It just means nothing was left behind.</s>ANNOUNCER: So what's next in the case? Across the country and around the world, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360. Live from the CNN broadcast center in New York, here's Anderson Cooper.</s>COOPER: Thanks for joining us. A lot to get to in this hour. We begin at the nation's borders. Ask the agents who work hard to protect them, and they'll tell you they're busier than ever. And statistics support that. It all comes down to one irresistible word, "amnesty." Whenever it's offered, the border explodes. There's CNN's Bill Tucker.</s>BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every time this country discusses amnesty for illegal aliens, the number of people entering the country illegally soars. This latest wave started two years ago.</s>GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I propose a new temporary worker program to match willing foreign workers with willing employers when no Americans can be found to fill the job.</s>TUCKER: With those words in January of 2004, the president might have just as well fired a starter's pistol. The number of arrests at the southwestern border soared. Arrest rates which had been occurring at an average monthly rate or 75,400 in 2003 jumped to almost 95,000 a month in 2004, to nearly 98,000 last year. That monthly arrest average is now 106,000, a 40 percent increase since 2003. In testimony before congress last month, the Texas border sheriffs warned of the message that Washington is broadcasting.</s>SHERIFF LEO SAMANIEGO, EL PASO, TEXAS: Anytime you give a group of illegal, undocumented aliens that are already here, amnesty or even anything that sounds close to amnesty, you're sending the message to the next 12 million that are going to come in after them.</s>TUCKER: The last time amnesty was debated was in 1986. An arrest of illegal aliens attempting to cross rose 23 percent from the previous year. Which means from a border agent's perspective, it's clear what should be happening now.</s>T.J. BONNER, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: I think before you start discussing how do we deal with the complexity of all of the millions of people who are here, you have to set in motion a mechanism to stop other people from coming in.</s>TUCKER: The official apprehension rate is on pace to top 1.2 million this year. Bill Tucker, CNN, New York.</s>COOPER: Well, illegal immigrants find work where they can get it. And more often than not, that takes them to the usual locations. Here's a look at the raw data. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, 33 percent of illegal immigrants are employed in service industries, like hotels and restaurants; 17 percent of undocumented workers find jobs in production, installation and repair; 16 percent are in construction; and surprisingly, just 3 percent are involved in agriculture. By the way, 25 percent of all illegal immigrants have some college education. We're back with D.A. King, an activist against illegal immigration, and Alisa Valdes-Rodriguez, a blogger and author. And we're taking your questions about immigration reform and your calls. The number is 1-877-648-3639. Our first call is T.J. in California. T.J., thanks for calling. What's your comment or question?</s>T.J., CALIFORNIA (on the phone): I have a comment. My comment as an African-American is, I am outraged that these people would think it's all right to hijack the civil rights movement. We were enslaved. We were brought here unwillingly. And when I see people saying it's the same thing as jumping the fence for domestic upgrade, it's not fair. I think it's a horrible thing. I think that if you have a car, do whatever you have to do. And I don't care, by the way, if they're from Saturn. Whatever your cause is, it's not the same as being a slave. And I think they need to find their own song and find their own martyrs or whatever they want to call them. But terrorist to slavery, and the African-American experience is a slap in the face to every African-American in the United States of America.</s>D.A. KING, ACTIVIST AGAINST ILLLEGAL IMMIGRATION: Thank you very much.</s>ALISA VALDES-RODRIGUEZ, BLOGGER AND AUTHOR: I'd like to answer. I want to answer her.</s>COOPER: Go ahead, Alisa.</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: The first slave rebellion in the Americas was held in Cuba. Led by a woman named Carlotta at the Triumvirato mill in Matanzas in the country of Cuba. I would say 80 percent of the people living in Cuba right now are of African descent. Five of every six people living in the Dominican Republic are of African descent. At least 40 percent of the nation of Columbia is of African descent. The African slaves that were brought to the United States were brought to replace Native Americans who were killed through genocide and disease. These are the very same faces that you are seeing pouring over the border from Mexico because not as many of them were killed there. They have the same history that you do. It's just that the imperialist power was...</s>KING: Nice try, Alisa. Nice try.</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: ...was from Spain and speaking Spanish, not from England and speaking English. So these two struggles are extremely related.</s>COOPER: All right, D.A., go ahead.</s>KING: I very much disagree with not only the words, but the intent of what Alisa just did. For somebody to come into this country illegally and then demand a civil right to remain here illegally and then hijack the movement, the effort, from black Americans in the 1960s...</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: So you're saying that it was...</s>COOPER: Alisa, let him finish his thought. Let him finish his thoughts.</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: Was it legal to bring slaves to the United States? That was legal?</s>KING: Let me know when it's my turn, O.K.?</s>COOPER: Come on, hey, come on...</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: Let's talk about the bigger crime. Slavery or immigration? Slavery -- if you want to talk about the big criminals in this entire equation, they are the slave masters, my dear.</s>COOPER: All right, let him finish his thought please.</s>KING: Thank you very much.</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: The people that you probably...</s>COOPER: Alisa, Alisa, you -- hold on. Just hold on, both of you. Before you came on this program, Alisa, you specifically were concerned about it not being a shouting match. So, I know a lot of shows -- I know a lot of shows...</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: Well, this is...</s>COOPER: I know a lot of shows...</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: But it's outrageous.</s>COOPER: I know a lot of shows...</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: It's outrageous...</s>COOPER: I know a lot of shows -- Alisa, no. Listen to me for a second. I know a lot of shows enjoy shouting matches. This is not one of them. Other networks may enjoy it. I prefer an intelligent discussion.</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: OK.</s>COOPER: So let the guy finish his thought, and then you can finish your thought. D.A., go ahead.</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: But when I'm the one voice...</s>KING: Thank you, sir.</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: I'm having to shout because...</s>COOPER: No, you don't have to shout. You're being...</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: 98 percent of what's on the media.</s>COOPER: D.A., go ahead.</s>KING: Alisa. Thank you. For someone here illegally to demand the civil right to become legal or to remain here illegally, whatever the present drone is, to compare that to the struggle of black Americans, to have their constitutional rights and have the laws enforced equally is shameless. And most of my black friends are not falling for this, no matter how much Alisa and company try to over talk. One more thing. Alisa is very, very apparently detailed on terms. But I've heard her use the term "immigrant" when we are obviously talking about people who are here illegally. My sister is an immigrant. She's a real legal immigrant who joined the American family lawfully, which is the definition of the word. It would be very nice if we could all agree on a term that's either illegal immigrant or illegal alien or immigrant. But don't mix the two. It's an insult to people who joined the American family according to our laws.</s>COOPER: We're getting a lot of calls and I do want to get them in...</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: I would like...</s>COOPER: Lisa from Michigan has a call or a comment. Lisa?</s>LISA, MICHIGAN, (on the phone): Yes, hi. I have this family who we've been friends for like 20 years. They've been here about 20 years ago. Some of their kids came here. The oldest was like 4, and the youngest was like 9 months. And they have citizen kids here. Now, if our state says that the only way citizens -- are considered a citizen if you have, you know, you're a citizen here, where would those kids that are citizens in that family would fall if anything else were to happen? Is it fair for us to say that OK, we'll take the father, the mother, and the other brothers, but we will leave the two that are citizens? I mean, I always thought that my grandparents were Polish. They're here legally. And we've been here three generations. But I've always thought that we're a compassionate country. I just don't see that compassion.</s>COOPER: Alisa, what do you think?</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: Well, I'd like to point out that the only illegal immigrant in my family history came from Ireland and he was a murderer, on my mother's side. And he was told you can either stay in Dungarven or you can go to America, and he came here. So I don't want people confusing criminality with legal status and so on and so forth. It's a non-debate. Actually, I mean, my -- the whole point that I come to this from is that we have 1,000 other issues that are more important in the United States right now than this. This has been in my opinion a consistent and conscientious effort on the part of the right wing to distract from the White House, take all of the problems that we have. You have the Republican party self- destructing. You have the president with the lowest approval ratings ever. Problems in our schools that Anderson just had a piece on...</s>COOPER: But isn't this a valid debate?</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: And this is taking -- it's really not a valid debate because this was an issue two years ago -- it was three years ago. You need to -- you all need to ask yourself why this is an issue now because it's deflecting attention from the White House onto brown people.</s>KING: Again, nice try with the brown people. It's the last ditch of people who cannot make a point because there is none. Whatever the president's popularity -- and by the way, I did not vote for the man, Alisa, if that helps you. If this is not the most burning issue in this country right now to you...</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: No, it's not...</s>KING: ... now, to you, Madam, you are not the only one who thinks so.</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: No, I think that the fact that we have the largest trade deficit in history is a bigger issue. I think the fact that 45 million American citizens are without healthcare -- 5 million of them since the year 2000 is a bigger issue.</s>KING: Sounds like you're on the wrong show.</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: I think that our schools are more segregated than ever before. That's a bigger issue. There are a million bigger issues...</s>COOPER: Well, let me...</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: There are...</s>COOPER: OK...</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: ... a million bigger issues...</s>COOPER: There are...</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: The fact that our president leaks the name of a CIA operative is a bigger issue.</s>COOPER: Well, there clearly are a lot of people who do think this is a big issue. We're getting a lot of reaction on the blog, as well, as well as a lot of callers. I want to read some of the reaction we're getting on the blog. Let's take a look at what some of you had to say. Adam in California asked, "Wouldn't it be easier to enforce immigration laws by going after businesses who hire illegal immigrants, rather than by raiding homes and breaking up families? If there's no work, they'll stop coming in such large numbers." D.A.?</s>KING: I absolutely -- nothing -- do I disagree with nothing in there. The criminal employers and the criminal bankers who are making mortgage loans to people in this country illegally in further violation of existing laws are the magnet that is drawing illegal immigration into this country. The concept that we cannot survive as a nation without open borders is nonsense. I'm 54 years old. I grew up in a neighborhood where people built houses for a living, and I just will not sit here and be told that America can't survive if we enforce our laws. It's nonsense.</s>COOPER: Alisa, a final thought from you.</s>VALDES-RODRIGUEZ: We don't have open borders, and people should stop pretending that we do. Furthermore, the people who say that the children of immigrants should not be entitled to a public education because they're not homeowners and they're not paying taxes, unless your landlord is really stupid, if you pay rent, your landlord is paying property tax through your rent money.</s>COOPER: I appreciate both of your passion and you guys represent yourselves very well. And I really do appreciate having you on the program. D.A. and Alisa, thank you so much. We'd love to have you back on another time. Thank you. Well, there's one city where immigrant workers are too busy to march for immigration reform, whether legal or illegal, they've got plenty to do, and their employers are delighted. Can you guess where it is? Well, we'll tell you. Also ahead, how difficult is it to become a legal immigrant? Wait until you see. Plus this...</s>REP. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: What's scary to us is not only looking back at what caused the last failure, but thinking about what's going to be fixed for June 1st. Because if it took this long to admit there were design failures it makes us less confident in remaining levees.</s>COOPER: A story we will not let go of, of high anxiety in New Orleans. Hurricane season is on the horizon. Why are there new fears about the levees? Coming up on 360.