Warnings over UK police use of facial images
GORANI: We are here in London, one of the most surveilled cities in the world. That isn't just cameras. Authorities have millions of facial images on searchable databases that could include innocent people, who had their image taken while in custody, for instance. Here's an example. You'll remember the attack on Parsons Green in London. We covered that extensively. Police later arrested a 21-year-old man. I won't say his name because he was apparently later released, but it was widely reported in the media. Police then said that a 21-year-old was let go without charge. So, it is possible that, even though he was released, police could still have images of him on file. My next guest has warned about the use of these facial images. Paul Wiles is the UK's biometric commissioner and he joins me here in the studio. Thanks for being with us. So, what are your concerns?</s>PAUL WILES, UK BIOMETRICS COMMISSIONER: Well, my concerns are that what we're talking about here are second-generation biometrics. The first generation were DNA and fingerprints. They've been very useful to policing. They've been very useful to counterterrorism. But, obviously, they're very intrusive of individual privacy. And for that reason, they've been regulated by law overseeing and all the rest of it. The trouble is we've got a new generation of biometrics - facial images, voice recognition, vein recognition.</s>GORANI: But gathered how?</s>WILES: Gathered either by the police when they arrest people or are gathered by listening or whatever it is. They're gathered in various ways.</s>GORANI: Surveillance?</s>WILES: Surveillance in some form. Could be. The problem is that legislation has not kept up with this new generation of biometrics. So, the existing legislation only covers DNA and fingerprints, not this second generation.</s>GORANI: How many are we talking about? Like, for instance, facial images on file? What we are taking, millions?</s>WILES: Yes. My best guess at the moment is the police are holding somewhere near 20 million facial images.</s>GORANI: And this could include people who have been arrested, not charged and later released?</s>WILES: It could, yes.</s>GORANI: And how would someone go about getting this image or this data deleted or removed?</s>WILES: Under new regulation that has just been put in place, individuals can apply to the police if they've not been found guilty to have their image deleted and the regulations say there must be a presumption that the police will delete, but they needn't necessarily delete. If the police don't delete or if they don't apply, then they will keep it for six years before they review it.</s>GORANI: What about people who have never been arrested? I can say I haven't been - yet maybe, I don't know - but what happens to them? Are there files of my face maybe passing through a border point somewhere? Am I on file anywhere basically?</s>WILES: OK. Let's talk about policing, first of all. As far as policing is concerned, your image will only be taken on arrest. So, you've got to at least have been arrested. Now, you may not, of course, have been found guilty. As far as borders are concerned, of course, yes, facial images are used at borders because if you've been through an airport anywhere in the world, you'll probably find that your passport is being compared via a camera with your face to check that you are the person on the passport. So, yes, images are used on the passport. So, yes, images are used at -</s>GORANI: But is that stored?</s>WILES: Sometimes, it's stored; sometimes it's not.</s>GORANI: How do we know if it isn't?</s>WILES: It varies from country to country.</s>GORANI: And here in the UK?</s>WILES: Well, in the UK, mainly what it's used for is against what's called a watch list. In other words, where we have people that we have concerns for, which means the police probably have their images already. Then, of course, the border control are looking for those individuals.</s>GORANI: There were reports that, for instance, police during the Notting Hill Carnival were using face recognition technology in a big crowd, for instance.</s>WILES: Yes. What the police were doing at the Notting Hill Carnival was an experiment. They were trying to find out whether you could use facial image technology to find an individual in a crowd. Now, that's the most difficult use of facial imaging and that's why they're doing the experiment. What I said at the time was I thought that was acceptable, but we now need to see the results of that trial.</s>GORANI: What - do you think - I mean, this is a technology that's probably - there are probably mistakes. Have their mistakes - have mistakes been made when the wrong face was recognized, the wrong person was identified and then what do you do?</s>WILES: Well, this depends on what it's being used for?</s>GORANI: Yes. In policing, for instance.</s>WILES: Well, the matching rate for facial images, if it's used under reasonably controlled conditions - for example, in airports - the matching rates are very high. The false rates are very low. That technology has improved enormously in the last ten years. That is less so if you start looking for an individual in a crowd. There, we're not sure how good the match rate is. Now, that's why I think it's acceptable for the police to do an experiment as long as they evaluate that and publish the results of that experiment.</s>GORANI: Paul Wiles, thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate your time on CNN. We'll be right back after a quick break. Stay with us.