Trump, his Lawyers Invited to Take Part in New Hearings
CUOMO: Now just looking over that timeline we went through, there are big problems with when things happened and they're going to have to answer those questions. That's what the next part of the impeachment process will be about. It's going to be much - well, I shouldn't really say that because this in the Intel committee, that was pretty combative but it's not supposed to be by design. It's supposed to be about Congress fact-finding but really, it was completely disputatious, right? It was about Right defending the President and Left going after him. Now that's what this is really about in the judiciary except at the end of it, you'll have articles of impeachment or not. So before all this began, Republicans complained that the process was unfair, that he should have been able to be in there cross-examining which is just BS. I mean that never happens in the investigatory phase. You think Giuliani's lawyers are going to get a chance to get involved with the investigation right now? No but now in the Judiciary Committee they will do just that and they will start on December 4th. The President and his legal team are invited to take part. They're invited to question and argue. OK? The President says maybe I'll testify. I'm taking - I'm taking the under on that. Now let's talk about some things that make sense that some things that don't. Former Trump Advisor Michael Caputo is here right now. I should mention Caputo signed an NDA stating that he won't defame Trump, his businesses or the Trump family. You've never done that anyway. Welcome back to Primetime. Happy Thanksgiving to you and the family.</s>MICHAEL CAPUTO, FORMER TRUMP ADVISOR: Happy Thanksgiving to you Chris.</s>CUOMO: Let's go from the what makes no sense to the what should make a lot of sense. Starting at the outer pole. Have you ever heard of - Michael's spent a lot of time in Russia. He worked in that part of the world. He knows people there. He knows the connections back here in the U.S. Did you ever hear of Parnas? Because everyone I can find who knew about him was like that was a stay-away guy.</s>CAPUTO: I never heard of Parnas. The first time I heard him was when reporters were calling me and asking me if I had heard of him. I spent a lot of time in Ukraine, Chris. I think you know, I'm married to Ukrainian woman. We have family there. I'm very close with my family in Ukraine. I spend time there. I've never heard of Parnas. But that doesn't mean a great deal. It just means we run in different circles.</s>CUOMO: No, I hear you. It's just that for Rudy Giuliani you know, we've both known him forever and even though he's angry about the interview. He's blaming me as part of this media conspiracy, I have a tremendous respect for him. I don't want to see him in trouble. But for him to associate with people like this guy and his partner with all their connections doesn't seem like him, does it?</s>CAPUTO: I don't think that Rudy knew a lot about these guys and perhaps he should have checked them out a little bit more but at the same time, we don't really know a lot about him ourselves. Do we?</s>CUOMO: Not yet.</s>CAPUTO: We're going to find out more and more about these folks but remember Rudy Giuliani comes from New York. He was mayor of the toughest city in the world and was a U.S. Attorney for that same area.</s>CUOMO: Prosecutor.</s>CAPUTO: Yes, prosecuting Mafia. He's been around a lot of different kinds of people. People, you and I probably wouldn't want to be spending time with either.</s>CUOMO: Yes, so all right, that's one. Now we move down the spectrum. This Ukraine did it, everybody debunks this theory. People have invested time and money in trying to figure it out. Bossert says it's been debunked. The CrowdStrike thing has been debunked. CrowdStrike, yes, they have part of their ownership as Ukraine but they are a California company. Do you really believe that Ukraine, not Russia was to blame for the 2016 interference?</s>CAPUTO: No, I believe as you know, when the emails, the Democrat emails were leaked before the convention, I came out immediately and warned the Obama administration that this was Russia and something had to be done about it. In fact, I've always thought it was Russia. I'd love to see the FBI prove it was Russia and prove that I was right but just because Russia did it doesn't mean Ukraine didn't do it. I don't believe Ukraine was messing around on the internet or doing cyber warfare like the Russians were. I know for a fact that they were - that the leadership of the Ukraine government at the time, the Poroshenko government was working through their embassy with Hillary Clinton and DNC operative, Alexandra Chalupa. And at the same time a Member of Parliament, very close to the President Poroshenko was messing around with that black ledger as they call it which was never proved to be real or not real and in fact just disappeared in Ukraine.</s>CUOMO: Well, but the federal--</s>CAPUTO: I could tell you, all the time I spent in Ukraine--</s>CUOMO: I know you know a lot of stuff but the federal prosecutors felt pretty confident about the information with Manafort and again Tom Bossert who worked for the--</s>CAPUTO: But they didn't use the ledger--</s>CUOMO: Well, they didn't need it. They had their own sufficient piece of evidence.</s>CAPUTO: That's not why they didn't use it. You don't know that's why they didn't use it. I can tell you--</s>CUOMO: That's what they said in the papers.</s>CAPUTO: - in Ukraine, they don't believe that the ledger is real and I can also tell you that the top law enforcement officers, those who have a law-and-order background in a corrupt system intend to get to the bottom of the Burisma scams and the Poroshenko regime meddling in the U.S. election. There's going to be investigations in--</s>CUOMO: But what meddling exactly?</s>CAPUTO: - here. It's going to happen.</s>CUOMO: What meddling? The DNC says it never happened. Chalupa says it never happened, Mueller says it never happened.</s>CAPUTO: Maybe Chalupa's lying.</s>CUOMO: The Intel community says it never happened. The Senate Intel committee says it--</s>CAPUTO: That's not true.</s>CUOMO: - never - of course it does.</s>CAPUTO: That's not true.</s>CUOMO: Of course, it's all true.</s>CAPUTO: Chris, it's not true.</s>CUOMO: What's not true?</s>CAPUTO: There are a lot of people very curious about at what Alexandra Chalupa--</s>CUOMO: I know there are. They're all defenders of the President.</s>CAPUTO: - and Ambassador Chally in Ukraine were doing.</s>CUOMO: But why does Bossert say--</s>CAPUTO: Well, listen Chris.</s>CUOMO: Hold on Mike because I had the same discussion last night.</s>CAPUTO: Let's just agree on one thing.</s>CUOMO: Go ahead.</s>CAPUTO: There's more afoot with Chalupa and with Lysenko, the MP that released that fake black ledger than was ever afoot, that led to the investigation of the Trump team.</s>CUOMO: Oh, I don't believe that at all.</s>CAPUTO: I say if we investigate the Trump team, let's investigate this team. I'll tell you--</s>CUOMO: I don't--</s>CAPUTO: It's really funny that--</s>CUOMO: I don't, I don't believe that you investigate both sides if that's fair.</s>CAPUTO: It will be funny in the end Chris.</s>CUOMO: You go where the evidence is.</s>CAPUTO: And it'll be really funny in the end Chris when Ukraine, this uber-corrupt organization on this planet is more willing to investigate allegations of corruption than the United States is.</s>CUOMO: Well, first of all, we've been investigating corruption all over the place.</s>CAPUTO: What does that make of us?</s>CUOMO: But look, back to the central.</s>CAPUTO: Then let's investigate this.</s>CUOMO: No, because you go where the evidence is.</s>CAPUTO: What are you afraid of?</s>CUOMO: I'm not afraid of anything. I'm a journalist.</s>CAPUTO: But the evidence is there.</s>CUOMO: What I'm trying - there is not evidence there and here's my proof.</s>CAPUTO: Yes, there is, there are members of the staff of the Ukrainian Embassy--</s>CUOMO: Then why would Tom Bossert say that again, just for all of you, Tom Bossert was one of the heads security analysts for this President. He's a friend of the President. Here's what he said.</s>TOM BOSSERT, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISOR TO TRUMP: Not only a conspiracy theory, it's completely debunked. Let me just again repeat that it has no validity.</s>CUOMO: Why? Why would the Senate Intel committee run by a Republican say the same thing? He was talking about the CrowdStrike rumors and them having this server--</s>CAPUTO: I don't believe CrowdStrike--</s>CUOMO: But that's what the President said he wanted investigated.</s>CAPUTO: Well, then we- let's - let's debunk that but it's - I'm talking about the real in plain sight evidence--</s>CUOMO: Hold on Michael.</s>CAPUTO: - that Ukraine's President Poroshenko had ordered his people to meddle in the United States election.</s>CUOMO: Michael, I hear your question.</s>CAPUTO: Nothing to do with CrowdStrike.</s>CUOMO: I have - but see, that matters and here's why. One, will see what they do about the other thing that's Ukraine's business. Two. the President has a hundred times more reason than you to know that the CrowdStrike thing is BS, a hundred times more because these people all work for him, the Intelligence Community, Burr, the Senate intelligence committee. They all came to the same conclusion. He knows it. He was briefed on it. They were briefed on it. He says no, I think it happened how is that not all by itself a potential abuse of power? If you are so incompetent that all these people telling you something that isn't true except Putin and you believe Putin?</s>CAPUTO: Well Chris, I can tell you that I believe the President would like to see proof that CrowdStrike laid out their--</s>CUOMO: He has the proof.</s>CAPUTO: - that the Russians. Nobody's seen it. I understand that the FBI says they have it.</s>CUOMO: They can't give him proof.</s>CAPUTO: But they've showed nobody.</s>CUOMO: They can't give him proof that CrowdStrike didn't take the server when a server wasn't taken. The DNC has said no server was taken.</s>CAPUTO: No, no, no, listen.</s>CUOMO: Tons of people said no server was taken.</s>CAPUTO: That's not what I'm talking about. That's not what I'm talking about.</s>CUOMO: But that's what he's talking about. That's what he's talking about.</s>CAPUTO: Listen. I believe you.</s>CUOMO: That's what he talked to Zelensky about.</s>CAPUTO: Let me tell you. I believe the President like many of us would like to see the proof that the FBI has that Russia hacked the</s>DNC. CUOMO: They have the proof.</s>CAPUTO: I believe--</s>CUOMO: They indicted 12 different people and entities.</s>CAPUTO: Chris, I understand what you're saying but CrowdStrike's proof has not been made public and that's a fact.</s>CUOMO: But that's different than the President not knowing it.</s>CAPUTO: And CrowdStrike has a mixed reputation.</s>CUOMO: I'm out of time, look, I'm out of time but I got to ask you one other thing. I have to ask this. I'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable. You and I, I believe share a theory, Roger Stone is too smart a guy to not know that they were going to get his communications. This is a savvy guy. It's a little different when you're in the crosshairs but he knows the game. For him to play the game out the way he did to me suggests taking one for the team because he had to know this was going to go bad on him. Now, he's facing all of these convictions and the President is silent about it. Are you surprised that a guy who arguably has been his longest advisor, who arguably took convictions out of some misplaced sense of loyalty is getting the silent treatment?</s>CAPUTO: Well, I think you know, Roger Stone is by court order still not allowed to talk to me. We haven't spoken in 10 months. In fact, he's not allowed to talk at all.</s>CUOMO: I know.</s>CAPUTO: So I don't know exactly what's going on in Roger's head or what his defense is talking about but I do know that that the President is looking at the one person that was dragged into the mud of this bogus Russian investigation, who did take one for the team. That's one thing the defense got right, I'm sorry the--</s>CUOMO: Prosecutor.</s>CAPUTO: - the prosecutor got right when they opened and closed this trial. I was there every day and they said Roger Stone did what he did because he was afraid to embarrass the President. I believe that's true. I believe the prosecution got that right. I think there's room for an appeal here. I don't really understand it because I'm not an attorney but I think there's room but the President needs to look at this. I don't expect the President to do anything about it right now but I got to believe he's thinking about it.</s>CUOMO: So much for loyalty. Michael Caputo, thank you for coming on the show. The best to you and your family for Thanksgiving. We don't always agree but we always agree that you have a place here to make your argument.</s>CAPUTO: Thanks Chris.</s>CUOMO: Be well. All right, the President may have a last chance to avoid impeachment. Instead, he's relying on a strategy that includes making you believe he's a victim. Now, there are a couple of things that are said all the time and we're going to play them out in the closing but first, where are we in terms of the pluses and minuses? Beautiful legal representatives on that. Next.