Does Bush Deserve Fast-Track Trade Authority?; Whatever Happened to Pro Athletes Being Role Models?
BEGALA: For now, the topic on CROSSFIRE is trade. From 1974 until 1994, American presidents all had special powers to negotiate trade agreements. After the president had negotiated a deal, Congress then either had to take it or leave it: no amendments, no changes -- all or nothing. Then, during the Clinton administration, the Republican Congress let this so-called fast-track trade authority expire. Eight years later, President George W. Bush finally has it back. He signed a bipartisan bill today restoring fast-track trade negotiating authority. But a lot of people still worry that free trade will end up exporting their job. Now in the CROSSFIRE, California Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters joins us from our Los Angeles bureau. Congresswoman, thank you for joining us.</s>REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: You're welcome.</s>NOVAK: Congresswoman Waters, I would like to have you listen to what President Bush said today at the signing ceremony. Let's listen to it.</s>WATERS: All right.</s>BUSH: Other nations and regions have pursued new trade agreements while America's trade policy was stuck in park. With each passing day, America has lost trading opportunities and the jobs and earnings that go with them.</s>NOVAK: Since we haven't been negotiating trade deals because of Congress' refusal to pass fast-track authority, why did you vote against it and oppose it to the bitter end, Ms. Waters?</s>WATERS: Well, first of all, you can't compare what other nations do in voting for their trade laws and what we do here in this country. Of course there are many nations that would like to take our jobs. There are many nations that would like to have favorable conditions under which they can export their products to us. We have to be concerned about making sure that the Congress of the United States does not simply give its power to the president to do whatever he wants to do. We enjoy separation of powers here. And that means we ought to be able to understand exactly what is being negotiated, and we have to protect American jobs and make sure that we get the best that we can get for our country in these trade agreements. We cannot allow one person, even the president of the United States, to make these decisions. And we certainly don't want political decisions being made about trade.</s>NOVAK: But Congresswoman, we have not been able to negotiate any treaties in the absence of that authority for the president. And of course, in this global arena, we have to make these trade deals. Isn't -- let's be frank -- isn't the deal that you and the other Democrats are so much bullied by the labor unions that you just can't vote yes on these bills?</s>WATERS: Absolutely not. We know that the American public expects us to know what's in a trade agreement. To say that you're going to give the president fast-track authority, and when it comes before the Congress, all we can do is agree with whatever he's done -- we can't amend it, we can't ask any questions about it -- I don't think the American people sent us there to be a rubber stamp on trade agreements in any shape, form or fashion. So it's not just about labor, it's about everything. It's about child labor, it's about the environment, it's about fair pricing, it's about fair tariffs. It's about a whole host of issues. And we cannot say to the president, Mr. President, you can do any old thing you want, it's all right with us. If that's the case, why would the people elect us?</s>BEGALA: Well in fact, Congresswoman, when I was working for Bill Clinton in those primaries in 1992, you were one of the first important members of Congress to endorse him in that campaign.</s>WATERS: That's right.</s>BEGALA: Twenty-three million Americans got jobs because of the economic policy that you and President Clinton helped put in place. And for that everybody is grateful. But a fourth of those jobs did come from expanded free trade. I mean, President Clinton asked for this same authority. I supported him on that. Didn't the Clinton record of having expanded trade with more job training, with more education, with more environmental protections, didn't that work?</s>WATERS: No. First of all, you must agree that I am consistent. Many of us are consistent. We voted against President Clinton having the singular authority to make these trade agreements, just as we voted against Bush. And no, I do not think that the bubble, or the increase in our economy had anything to do with jobs that were realized, necessarily, from globalization or trade. I think that our economy did better. The president did do some good things in our economy, but it was because of the way he managed federal government, and not because of the trade agreements.</s>BEGALA: Well, in fact, I will give you points for consistency. And I have to point out that many, many of your colleagues were not so consistent. In fact, 23 members of the House -- and I won't read all of their names; I've got them here, though. But you know them. Twenty-three members of House, Republicans all, opposed President Clinton when he asked for fast-track trade authority. The same bill comes up four years later -- actually, the Bush bill was slightly even more liberal, if you ask me -- they support Bush, 11 members of the Senate, Republicans all, opposed it when Clinton asked for it. So there's some politics going on on the other -- on the Republican side, wasn't there?</s>WATERS: Well, some of them are just hypocrites. Others of them had their arms twisted by the president of the United States. I have never seen a president demand the members of his party vote in the way this president does. Sometimes we hold the role open for almost an hour after the last vote until the president can twist arms and turn around votes. The bipartisan agreement on fast-track really is that the Congress of the United States should not turn it over to the president. Republicans and Democrats alike believe that. And that's why this bill only passed by one vote.</s>NOVAK: It was three votes, 215-212.</s>WATERS: Well, they must have gotten two at the last minute, when I wasn't looking.</s>NOVAK: Ms. Waters, I like to try to introduce a fact or two in here occasionally. And isn't it a fact that the Democrats in the House of Representatives only -- this is just pathetic, 25 -- only 25 Democrats voted for this bill, 183 opposed it. And you -- let's be honest, why was this? It's the labor bosses saying, if you vote for this bill, we're going to cut off the money we give you to get elected to Congress. Isn't that what it is?</s>WATERS: Oh no, I don't think you can say that at all. Just as President Clinton had trouble and could not get the vote, this president is no different. It is not about whether or not you are aligned with labor or whether or not you are supported by labor, even. It's about the basic Constitution of the United States of America, separation of powers. We have the right to debate trade agreements and to make sure that we're protecting the American workers and American people, and that we're not allowing the president to make these agreements based on some other considerations that he may have other than what's good for the American workers and businesspeople.</s>NOVAK: Congresswoman Waters, you're a sophisticated person. I just can't imagine that you envision an America where we have no trade agreements, we don't allow any of our products to go out, we don't allow any to come in. And isn't it a fact that your distinguished husband, who was later an ambassador, was in the marketing business for a foreign automobile company? Isn't that true?</s>WATERS: No, it is not true. You talk about facts, you have none. As a matter of fact, my husband was ambassador to the Commonwealth of the Bahamas. He's never been involved in foreign trade per se. He was in the automobile business, but -- wait a minute. You have to understand that as the ambassador to the Commonwealth of the Bahamas, the number one priority for that administration was to promote trade. We do promote trade. We promote fair trade.</s>NOVAK: He didn't sell automobiles?</s>WATERS: Yes he did. We promote fair trade.</s>NOVAK: And foreign automobiles?</s>WATERS: We promote fair trade -- no.</s>NOVAK: And they were foreign automobiles?</s>WATERS: Yes, he did.</s>NOVAK: OK, thank you.</s>WATERS: We promote, and he promotes, fair trade. We are not against trade, and I don't want you to get the impression that we are against trade. I support fair trade...</s>BEGALA: Congresswoman Waters, I thank you very much for joining us. We are going to go to breaking news. We're going to go to Anderson Cooper, who's got breaking news on that case of the conjoined twins.</s>NOVAK: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. We're coming to you from the George Washington University in Foggy Bottom, D.C. Is there anyone that pitcher John Rocker hasn't offended? A few years ago, it was New Yorkers. This week, it's gays. Rocker is apologizing for calling a male couple in a Texas cafe, "fruitcakes," and apparently some other things that we can't say even on cable. Rocker is not alone, not nearly in the great world of sports. Philadelphia 76ers superstar Allen Iverson was accused of threatening two men with a gun, although today prosecutors said they won't refile more serious charges against him. Are professional athletes off their rockers? And should we put up with, let alone pay big money to boys behaving badly? Joining us from the CNN Center in Atlanta is sports talk radio host Steak Shapiro.</s>BEGALA: Steak, thank you very much for joining us, sir. Being in Atlanta, I'm sure you have covered Rocker when he was down there. He's a big, strong dumb redneck from Macon, Georgia, as I understand it, who was in Dallas and, right, offended the gay community by calling a couple of guys fruitcakes. I actually think the Dallas Cowboys were just as offended because I'm not a big fan of the "Cowgirls" down there. That's probably who he was really talking about. But what's the real story on Rocker? Is he dumb, is he crazy or is this a false choice?</s>STEAK SHAPIRO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I've known John Rocker since he broke in with the Braves about five years ago. I mean, John Rocker is what he is. He's a pampered athlete. He's a spoiled athlete. He's a guy that, I know this might be a shocker to you, but he's not the most lenient when it comes to his opinions, not the most liberal on his feelings toward homosexuality. And he expressed that the way a lot of guys, I guess big rednecks from Macon might. Just so happens he's a national sports...</s>BEGALA: He's a guy who routinely showers with other men though, isn't it? Isn't that part of feeling...</s>SHAPIRO: Bob, tell us how you really feel.</s>NOVAK: That's Paul. That's Paul.</s>SHAPIRO: I don't know. A little too much information.</s>NOVAK: Don't accuse me of a Begala-ism.</s>SHAPIRO: Look, John Rocker is what he is, guys. I mean, you know, because some -- because some guy is intolerant of homosexuals is not the only guy that has these kind of backward views on things. And, I mean, you know, the notion that athletes get off scot-free, I think it's ridiculous. Allen Iverson had the Philadelphia media staked out at his house like he was O.J. Simpson for three days over charges that were never really filed on him. John rocker makes a couple of off-color remarks, which I'm not condoning, but is it worth getting Steak Shapiro on CNN to talk about an off-hand remark in a Dallas brunch? I mean, you know, let's not pretend -- everything these athletes say, because they make so much money, because they are so famous, we magnify it. It's no different in Hollywood. It's no different in entertainment. I love how we all scream, oh, the athletes are out of control, they're going nuts. It's no different than any other walk of life. The difference is we have ESPNEWS and we used to have CNN/SI -- sorry about that guys -- but the reality is you have got 24-hour news and sports covering this stuff. We need stories. I don't think John Rocker being ignorant is a big story.</s>NOVAK: Steak, this is Bob Novak. About 50 years ago, literally, I was a sports writer and I knew athletes when they were making if they were really in the big bucks, about $12,000 a year. And they weren't any nicer when they were that way.</s>SHAPIRO: Exactly.</s>NOVAK: Do you agree with that?</s>SHAPIRO: Yes. Ty Cobb was a real gentlemen when he wasn't hurling racial remarks at half of the guys in the stands or teammates or whatever it was. Billy Martin, this just in, and Mickey Mantle used to like to have a few pops when they were out on the road. And even, on some cases, baseball players would have illicit behavior with women outside their marriage. All these crazy things happened 50 years ago. They happen today. It's no new news. We just have more people covering it. And back then, by the way, when Babe Ruth was carousing and drinking and doing everything else, writers protected him. We don't protect these guys now. That's the only reason it's a bigger story now.</s>NOVAK: Here's what I don't understand. Maybe you do or maybe you don't. Allen Iverson is a great basketball player. He's not a good player, he's a great basketball player. And he just willed that team to the Finals of the NBA playoffs a year ago. But he is not a nice guy. He spent a little time in prison. He's a difficult fellow. He has trouble with his coach. Why should we care what his personality is? Do you care what his personality is?</s>SHAPIRO: Well, here's the reality. If I lived in Philadelphia, I like the fact that he has the word 6ers on his uniform, and that's what I care about. Nice guy, not a nice guy, Allen Iverson -- and by the way, Mr. Novak, good basketball knowledge. You're right. He was MVP a couple of years ago, got his team to the Finals, and his head coach, Larry Brown, is not a big fan. But the reality is, hey, he decided that he doesn't want to get caught up in this high society deal. He goes back to his roots, back to the hood if you will, and hangs out with those people. Does not make him not a nice guy? Look, Allen Iverson is not going to win a popularity contest. But if it says Philadelphia on his uniform, 6ers fans are going to root for him. You know, you can't all have the great image of Magic Johnson, who, yes, he has a few picadillos in his closet as well, so...</s>BEGALA: I cannot believe you are covering for these guys. I can't believe you are...</s>SHAPIRO: Hey, you know what...</s>BEGALA: ... sucking up to them.</s>SHAPIRO: Well, what is the responsibility? Are we supposed to fire him? Are we supposed to make sure he doesn't...</s>BEGALA: Sure.</s>SHAPIRO: Hey, look, that's the ownership. And the fact is if he goes and wins 15 or 20 games, then the ownership is going to take care of him. It's a parent's decision...</s>BEGALA: Do you think your radio station would keep you on if you beat the crap out of some girl?</s>SHAPIRO: Only -- I don't know about a girl. If I slapped around you and Robert a little bit, maybe it would be OK.</s>BEGALA: You know, Novak once bit off a piece of my ear. We had to edit it out. It was a horrible scene.</s>SHAPIRO: He's a monster. Novak is a monster. I wouldn't mess with him. Hey, all I'm saying is, Paul, why are you so outraged? Why do you think this is so unbelievable? It just happens to be they're famous people screwing up. They screw up in every walk of life, if it's entertainment or movies. You know, because they're athletes, should we cut them more slack? No. But I don't think it's any different than what happened.</s>BEGALA: But you are. You are saying you're cutting them more slack. If some regular person had beat the hell out of their girlfriend, they wouldn't care.</s>NOVAK: How many guys do the things that Allen Iverson is alleged to do and never -- it doesn't even get a one-paragraph story in the paper.</s>SHAPIRO: Well, you know what? I don't think it happens too often because Glenn Robinson didn't get, you know, pushed under the rug. You heard about Scott Erickson.</s>NOVAK: No, I mean non-athletes. Non-athletes...</s>SHAPIRO: Oh, non-athletes. Hey, look, I don't have percentages. But I'd guess even there in the bastion of CNN or in the bastion of any other company, there are some guys behind the scenes doing some things they wouldn't be proud of. The fact is...</s>NOVAK: And, you know, I can't even vouch for Paul.</s>BEGALA: Yes, but I'm not a big one on doing brunch. Apparently, it's Mr. Rocker's kind of milieu. But let me ask you -- let me shift the topic just slightly though. Pat Tillman, most of our audience probably doesn't know who Pat Tillman is. I know you do. He was, until a few days ago, a free safety for the Arizona Cardinals. He was an All-American at Arizona State. He walked away from a multimillion dollar football career to volunteer for the United States Army out of patriotism to serve his country because he was moved by what happened after September 11. You know, what's wrong with us putting a little more of a spotlight maybe on Pat Tillman and a little less on, say, John Rocker?</s>SHAPIRO: The question is would I've gotten the honor to sit on CROSSFIRE and talk to you gentlemen if we were talking about Pat Tillman. So, I mean, the media is as much to blame. Look, the other thing is that Pat Tillman, he's such a class act. He won't allow the media to cover this. He doesn't want it to be one of those Riddick Bowe, I'm joining the Marines, sensationalized deals. He's a true American. He's a true gentleman. He's a man trying to represent his country. And, yes, that's one of the great stories. So, parents have to make this decision. Are you going to have your kid emulate a guy like Pat Tillman or are you going to have him look at Erickson and Big Dog and Iverson? That's a parents' choice to make. But don't seem blown away and outraged every time you hear about something. Pat Tillman is a great example. But I don't think that make headlines. I don't think that gets you on CROSSFIRE. I think the other stuff does. You guys have to figure that out. You tell me.</s>BEGALA: Steak Shapiro, always got an opinion. Thank you very much for joining us on CROSSFIRE. Terrific job.</s>CROSSFIRE. NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE. "CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT" begins immediately after a CNN news alert. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com Track Trade Authority?; Whatever Happened to Pro Athletes Being Role Models?>