Holmes: `I Am Bad News`
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, new and disturbing insight into the mind of Aurora shooting suspect, James Holmes. Were clues ignored that might have saved lives? According to a published report, he told a fellow student in March that he wanted to kill people. A few weeks before the shooting, he apparently texted, "Stay away from me. I am bad news." And politicians with daddy issues. Some of the most powerful leaders have fathers that just were not around. This might be precisely what motivated them to become so successful. And later, Wendy Williams like you have never seen her before -- her life, her personal story. And of course, hot topic, Rihanna and Chris, Kim and Kanye, Prince Harry`s hard luck, and how you doing daytime diva takes your calls live with me, 855-DRDREW5.</s>PINSKY: But first, we`re going to update the Aurora story. Thank you for joining us. I`ve got attorney and legal affairs commentator Areva Martin and Dr. Justin Frank, psychiatrist and psychoanalyst. Dr. Frank, I`m going to go to you first. James Holmes in a "New York Times" article is quoted as having indicated he wanted to kill, and he was suspicious, and he was asked questions about possibly having had something called dysphoric mania. Tell us about that.</s>DR. JUSTIN FRANK, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, first of all, good evening, Dr. Drew. I think that dysphoric mania is a much more common diagnosis than it used to be. And the reason it`s called dysphoric is doesn`t feel the typical mania, which is euphoric. Meaning, they are happy, they`re excited, they spend money. Dysphoric people are angry, enraged. They have moods that are actually -- you can`t even communicate with them. You can`t -- it`s very hard to talk somebody who is in the midst of a dysphoric manic experience, you can`t even talk them down. And they require medication and psychotherapy.</s>PINSKY: Dr. Frank, the fact that --</s>FRANK: May have had that. Somebody may have that.</s>PINSKY: Yes, I agree with you. And the fact that he can`t be talked down is what I find interesting here. Do you think there`s -- and how -- I`m -- when people are in manic state, particularly dysphoric mania, it`s hard to go through the world from weeks and weeks or even months, that is guy did. Do you think there`s any possibility -- let me ask you this, before you respond to that -- that he was told he had -- this is a bright kid who had neuropsychiatric training. Do you think they told him he had schizophrenia and he was looking for an alternative diagnosis?</s>FRANK: That`s -- anything is possible. And he is a bright kid. Maybe he was -- schizophrenia for most people who are young do experience schizophrenia as a curse. I mean, it`s a one-way street. So, at least manic bipolar illness is much more treatable. But dysphoric mania, usually the dysphoric phase is pretty brief. It`s a rage phase that doesn`t last nearly as long as the euphoric mania phases do. So, it could be that he had brief moments. But he was clearly planning to do t it.</s>PINSKY: Right. We are tossing around terms. I want to make sure our audience understands. Dysphoria means unhappiness, sadness, depressed people are dysphoric. And that`s what disconnected here in manic phases, people are usually very, very high, but this is their high and low at the same time, very, very uncomfortable. But they don`t stay in it for months or weeks at a time, this guy was planning stuff. That`s why I just got to question that diagnosis. Did we learn anything from that article in "New York Times" this week that let us -- let you to believe that an opportunity was missed?</s>AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Well, I think we learned that there are more clues than perhaps we know early on. We are hearing from neighbors. We`re hearing from students that attended the university with Holmes, we`re really not, you know, learning a lot what was going on with him educationally or medically because the judge hasn`t ruled on whether those records can be released. We have the defense lawyers arguing that the educational records are protected by a federal law that protects your education records, and that the hospital or the doctor records from the psychiatrist are protected by the -- you know, the patient client privilege. So, we`re not really getting to the heart of what I think this case is really going to be about.</s>PINSKY: Doesn`t the fact this crime was so horrific and included murder, doesn`t that call into question the propriety of maintaining those kinds of privilege?</s>MARTIN: I think we`re going to hear lots of arguments about that but these laws are in place for a reason, to protect the privacy of individuals. And just because there`s a murder and a murder trial going to be going on doesn`t mean you lose all of those rights. The judge is going to have to make a tough call because we know we are expecting an insanity plea from the defense if they are going to argue guilty by -- not reason of insanity, guilty but insane. So, it`s going to call into question the medical requests, have requests for expert analysis and expert examination of this guy. So, we`re going to start to see -- we are not going to get around those records at some point. The question is when is the judge going to allow the public to know what was going on with whoms?</s>PINSKY: OK. Areva and Dr. Frank, we`re going to take a couple calls here. Rhonda in Florida -- Rhonda, what do you got for us?</s>RHONDA, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Well, my husband just lost his job this past week or was put on administrative leave because he told his boss that years ago, he saw a therapist because he wanted to kill people.</s>PINSKY: Oh, that`s interesting. Dr. Frank, do you have an opinion about that?</s>FRANK: I think it is outrageous he lost his job, first of all. He was an honest man who told his boss this and it was years ago. I really think that there`s such a stigma still about people in psychotherapy, people who are seeking help. I mean it is a serious problem and terrible that he lost his job.</s>FRANK: It makes me really angry, too. Before about --</s>PINSKY: Go ahead, Areva.</s>FRANK: Go ahead.</s>MARTIN: In this case, the doctor reported at least to the police on campus that there was some concerns about the health of Holmes.</s>PINSKY: I think that doctor is going to be exonerated. I think she did everything right.</s>MARTIN: What do you do with that information?</s>MARTIN: Even if you gave it to the city police, are they going to follow him 24/7?</s>PINSKY: No, the police had the same restrictions the psychiatrist did. He wasn`t saying enough to put him on a hold. They couldn`t put him in jail. They could just go, OK, dually noted. We`ll watch him.</s>MARTIN: Think about the resources that would be required if reports are given to the police about all the people that have plans or are talking about perhaps killing someone. Now, in this case, we wish someone would have intervened because the outcome has been so horrific. But, you know, practically, what do you do in these cases? It`s a very difficult case.</s>PINSKY: This makes me furious that we are stigmatizing people who have had symptoms of mental illness, who are now well and sharing the fact that they are well and once had symptoms. That, I would think is a major legal problem. Another call, Jon -- Jon in California.</s>FRANK: Totally infuriating.</s>PINSKY: I`m with you Dr. Frank. Jon?</s>JON, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Going on the same conversation that you had -- so, what can authorities do for a hypothetical threat? Someone I knew wanted to kill somebody and if I called the authorities what can the authorities actually do about that?</s>PINSKY: Dr. Frank, you sure a psychiatrist put in this position once in a while. Tell them how you do that.</s>FRANK: I have been in this position, but the laws have really changed. In the `70s, there was a law in California, I think it was called the Terra Soft law, where if you were a psychiatrist and you had a patient that you suspected was dangerous or a threat, you could make a report about it. And it was not a violation of confidentiality. For me, at some point, we have an obligation also to the community you can not just to the parent confidentiality. So, as a psychiatrist, I feel very could be obligated to the community, too. If I have a patient who looks like he is really going to blow his top, I`m going to try to get him in the hospital, hospitalize him. If I feel that he is really murderous, I would hospitalize him even against his will by calling a policeman and having him committed. You can hold somebody in the hospital, for instance in D.C. for 48 hours. It is not very long. It used to be 96. At least you can get started. I have no idea what he said to the therapist he was with. The other thing was he withdrew from school, apparently, right around the time she made the report. So, there was no way to really follow it up with proper authorities.</s>PINSKY: Dr. Frank, I`m going to have you hold for a second. You`re going to stay with us and talk about politicians and some of the childhood experiences that maybe they share in common. Areva, take me home with this, I`ve got about 30 seconds. Go.</s>MARTIN: The key here, Dr. Drew, is help. And what we learned from this report today there were some signs and some things going on with Holmes that hopefully would have led someone to get this young man help. It didn`t happen, so now we have this horrific shooting happening. You know, got to stay tuned on this case. We`re going to hear a lot more what is going to happen legally.</s>PINSKY: Trust your instincts, guy, keep, persevere. Stay tuned. I have the one and only daytime diva, is that a term? I`ve got Wendy Williams here. She`s going to be taking your calls. There she is. Again, we`re also taking your calls about politicians and their history and what leads people to be so motivated to go into calls like that. Our number is 855-373-7395. Stay with us.