Trump: Reports Of Russian Interference Are "Ridiculous"; Interview with Rep. Jim Himes
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I think the Democrats are putting it out because they suffered one of the greatest defeats in the history of politics in this country and, frankly, I think they're putting it out and it's ridiculous.</s>CUOMO: Just to be very clear, you have the president-elect there talking about the election. He lost the popular vote. The electoral margin, one of the lowest we've seen except for George W. Bush in the modern era. And yet he does question the intelligence about Russia's involvement in hacking during the election. One congressman is now calling out Mr. Trump for his criticism of the intelligence, even calling him unhinged, a new buzz word in politics. Joining us now is that Democratic congressman, Jim Himes. He is a member of the House Intelligence Committee. Congressman, thank you for being with us.</s>REP. JIM HIMES (D), CONNECTICUT: Good morning, Chris.</s>CUOMO: The idea that Russia was involved in the hacking during the election. How sure are you of that intelligence?</s>HIMES: Sure enough, Chris, to tell you that it's not an idea, it is fact and this is not a fact that is in dispute by any of our 17 intelligence agencies. I've been in the room, as have my colleagues. There is one person who believes that this is still in dispute and this is some bizarre Democratic plot and that's of course, President- elect Donald Trump. But there is I think no uncertainty on the part of the intelligence community, but that Russia was hacking this election. The question of course is why and who ordered it and all this we may never know the answers to. But the idea that Russia hacked our election is not open to debate anymore.</s>CUOMO: So the motive is still unclear that's the disconnect between the CIA and the FBI. There is points for speculation there, but not about whether or not Russia was involved at all?</s>HIMES: That's exactly right. Look, this is intelligence, right? This is not law enforcement where they go into your house and get your phone records. This is intelligence where things are always a little uncertain. However that Russia hacked this election is not uncertain and this takes us back to President-elect Donald Trump who is, again, the one person out there who thinks there is -- well, actually soon actually, I shouldn't say that, right? And this is one of the sad things about watching the Congress right now, Speaker Ryan, Mitch McConnell and others are standing around Donald Trump who is not only disagreeing with the CIA, but actually criticizing the CIA. And, sadly, Speaker Ryan and Mitch McConnell and others are not standing up and saying the president cannot in the face of adversaries criticize the United States intelligence community.</s>CUOMO: Well, under the category of politics, sometimes taking things a little too far. Your tweet said, "We're five weeks from the inauguration and the president-elect is completely unhinged. The Electoral College must do what it was designed for." What does that mean, Congressman?</s>HIMES: Well, I'll stand by my characterization of the president- elect. Again, what finally pushed me over the edge is that when the president-elect of the United States criticized the CIA and the intelligence community. Can you imagine what the leaders in Beijing, Moscow and Tehran are thinking as they watch the next president of the United States delegitimize and criticize his own intelligence community and stand up for the defense of Russia, one of our prime adversaries. It's just --</s>CUOMO: Are you suggesting that the Electoral College should take away the results of the election?</s>HIMES: The Electoral College, if you read "The Federalist" papers and understand why it is there, it is a group of people. It is not an algorithm. It is not a set of balance. It is a group of people that our founding fathers, you know, to whom supposedly we all sort of defer to pledge the idea that if somebody gets elected who has manifestly ill equipped to be president. And there's all sorts of phrases about the majority acting in a way that perhaps the electorates don't agree with that the Electoral College can step in. By the way, you as a lawyer will know, that will cause a lot of litigation. But Donald Trump since his election has done not one thing, whether it was criticizing the CIA or reversing decade's worth of policy with China, whether it was appointing people like Steve Bannon has not done one thing that would suggest that he is qualified to be mayor of a small town in Connecticut, much less president of the United States.</s>CUOMO: By your definition as a Democrat, but the election, if nothing else, was almost a pure referendum on change. Somebody coming in from the outside and shaking everything up. People could easily suggest that's what he's doing. I get why you could criticize him. A lot of this will go on for the next four years at a minimum, but to suggest that the Electoral College should go the other way, and I suppose reward Hillary Clinton. Not only is that highly, highly unlikely and maybe illegal, but why would you even propose it as a solution?</s>HIMES: Well, I grant you that it's unlikely, but it's interesting that word you use referendum. If it was a referendum on anything --</s>CUOMO: I know she won the popular vote --</s>HIMES: Three million votes.</s>CUOMO: But you had a lot of people come out and vote for Donald Trump and they did it with a motivation that caught you guys by surprise.</s>HIMES: Absolutely.</s>CUOMO: Those are people who want a voice. They're not deplorable, they are desperate --</s>HIMES: Absolutely.</s>CUOMO: -- because they feel the system is against them and the realities are against them and (inaudible) to that and they matter, too.</s>HIMES: Absolutely. We've sat in these seats before and we talked about the election and the campaign and, boy, were the Democrats wrong. Boy, did the Democrats run a lousy presidential campaign and I was part of it and was I wrong and was everybody wrong. No question about that. But now we're past that and you're right. Under the rules President- elect Donald Trump won this thing fair and square. Right? We don't, apparently, as many Americans are learning have a one-person, one-vote system in this country. Despite a 3 million vote differenced Hillary Clinton will not be president and Donald Trump will. But we do have this thing called the Electoral College, which is a group of people. A group of people who come together to deliberate. If that thing exists and by the way, I'm of the opinion that it should not exist. The idea that a majority of Americans would vote for somebody who then doesn't become president is a profoundly problematic thing. But if it exists, why would it exist but for any other purpose than what it could do in one week, which is to say and something that I think the majority of Americans I think probably believe today which is that we're about to make a president who is dangerous. He is standing up for Russia. Criticizing the CIA. The Chinese flew a nuclear equipped bomber over the South China Sea because of a phone call that the president-elect made. This stuff --</s>CUOMO: We don't know why.</s>HIMES: You're right. We don't know exactly why the Chinese did that, but coincidence that one day after President-elect Trump says we're going to review the one China policy, all of a sudden we have a nuclear bomber flying over the South China Sea.</s>CUOMO: And also people on their own should do research, every state controls what their electors do. So you'd have a lot of legal hurdles. That's probably not a practicality. But let's talk about something that is. You have a bill that you want to put up to have Congress reclaim, is the word, its ability to declare war and conduct war ad resolve with the executive its role. Now this is part of a big dispute where Congress has been giving the presidents over time more and more power. I would call it, many critics would call it a real mistake. That Congress is abdicated out of almost coward us of giving the executive -- you want to take it back. Are you getting support, bipartisan support to take back congressional power over what the United States does militarily abroad?</s>HIMES: Yes, I think I will. I drop this bill on the last day of the Congress. I didn't have an opportunity to go out there and shop it amongst my colleagues, but you're exactly right. This will be portrayed as an anti-Trump thing and to some extent it is. Personally, I know that Donald Trump can't do a lot of what he talks about doing, building a well, setting up a list of Muslims without congressional approval. However, for all the reasons you point out, he could effectively get us into a war and that really worries me. And this bill is designed to not just address that, it's designed to address a problem of 50 or 60 years making which is since World War II, we haven't declared war. By the way, the presidents have taken that power because Congress has been cowardly about exercising the responsibility that is given to it in Article One of the constitution. Too many Congress just say that's a scary prospect war. I don't want to take responsibility for it. But, look, there is a reason why the framers did that. We need to deliberate decisions that serious.</s>CUOMO: As you get more into it, we'll cover this. It's very important. Congressman, thank you very much. Appreciate it -- Alisyn.</s>CAMEROTA: All right, Chris, U.S. intelligence agencies say Russia meddled in the presidential election, so, if Mr. Trump picks Rex Tillerson as secretary of state, what does that mean for relations with Putin and Russia? All of that is next on NEW DAY.