U.S.-Israeli Relations Hit Rock Bottom; Israel on Two-State Solution
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to NEW DAY. The long-held alliance between the U.S. and Israel is now on the rocks following a U.N. Security Council resolution condemning Israeli settlements in east Jerusalem and in the West Bank. So how will things change during the Trump administration? Probably a lot. Joining us now is Daniel Kurtzer. He's the former U.S. ambassador to Israel and Egypt. He's now a professor at an OK university, at Princeton University. Thank you for being with us, sir, and happy New Year.</s>DANIEL KURTZER, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL AND EGYPT: Thank you. To you, too, Poppy.</s>HARLOW: I'm very interested in your insight as to whether or not what has transpired between Israel and the United States is at least in part because of personal animus between President Obama and Prime Minister Netanyahu, or if you don't buy into this as personal at all?</s>KURTZER: Oh, it's highly personal. The foundation of the U.S./Israeli relationship actually is better than it's ever been. Provision of U.S. security assistance, support for Israeli anti-missile programs, intelligence and strategic cooperation are at their height. But the two leaders, Netanyahu and Obama, just never got along. And you're now seeing this come out in a very negative way right at the end of the administration, especially after Mr. Netanyahu appears to have endorsed Mr. Trump. So it's really a shame that we're not looking at what's important here, which is the strength of the bilateral relationship.</s>DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And the interesting - Netanyahu's spokesman told me yesterday that Israel is still committed to a two-state solution. But Kerry says Netanyahu's policies are quite different than that. He said as much in his speech. Do you agree with that? Who's right?</s>KURTZER: Well, Don, you know, he's made contrary statements over the past years. Back in 2009, he said he supported a two-state solution. On the eve of his last election, he backed away from it. He's back and forth on this. And it's hard to know exactly what he's thinking. What is clear, as Secretary Kerry said in his speech, is that the Israeli government has not pronounced itself in favor of a two-state solution and most of the members of Netanyahu's cabinet actually oppose a two-state solution. So it's hard to see Netanyahu's claims to be credible.</s>HARLOW: As Don well pointed out in that interview yesterday, a number of these cabinet members are opposed to a two-state solution very publicly, very vocally. Palestinians - a number of Palestinians will say that that's just talk and very careful wording by the spokesman or the spokespeople for Netanyahu. Netanyahu himself saying, yes, I stand by a two-state solution. Netanyahu said it recently in a "60 Minutes" interview, because they don't believe that that really means an independent and equally sovereign Palestinian state in places like east Jerusalem, Gaza, the West Bank, et cetera. How do you read it?</s>KURTZER: Well, that's exactly why Secretary Kerry's speech, as well crafted as it was, should be read carefully, because the point that he made is not really whether one mouths the words two-state solution, but whether or not actions on the ground, whether it's settlements on the Israeli side or incitement and violence on the Palestinian side, are proof of whether the two sides are ready to make peace. And Kerry was unsparing in his criticism of both sides saying it's about time that people actually do on the ground what they say they want, which is to create a two-state solution.</s>LEMON: Yes, saying one thing and doing another, and that - that's exactly what John Kerry said in the speech. You said that there wasn't anything new in that speech. So then the question is, why is Netanyahu so upset? Is it because he is maybe strategically he doesn't have as much leverage as he once had?</s>KURTZER: Well, I think he's upset largely because the speech is as strong as it was, and it lays bare all of the inconsistencies in both Israeli policy, but also in Palestinian policy. And no leader is going to want to see that happen. He's now exposed. The Israeli press, for example, has taken him to task since the time of the U.N. resolution a week ago for policies that are leading Israel into a very bad direction in which you may have the beginning of a one-state reality where Israel will have to make a choice between being a Jewish and democratic state, or not.</s>LEMON: The Palestinian president, Abbas - do you have a question? You want to take it?</s>HARLOW: Yes. No, no, no, go for it.</s>LEMON: Say that, you know, he's ready to meet once Israel stops building settlements, but Netanyahu said it's the Palestinians' refusal to accept Israel as a Jewish state that has caused a stalemate.</s>HARLOW: Yes.</s>LEMON: What do you think is holding up this process?</s>KURTZER: Well, I think both of them are avoiding taking hard decisions. I think the Palestinians have put themselves high up in a tree without a ladder by demanding a full settlement freeze before even talking. I think Netanyahu has put himself up in a different tree by continuing this settlement policy, which is eating up Palestinian land. And both of them are simply climbing higher and higher in this tree without taking into account the fact that they ought to come down to earth and understand that their two societies are the ones that are suffering from their lack of leadership.</s>HARLOW: Well put.</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>HARLOW: Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Have a great New Year.</s>LEMON: Daniel Kurtzer.</s>KURTZER: Thank you, you, too.</s>HARLOW: Coming up next, let's have a little fun.</s>LEMON: All right.</s>HARLOW: It is - it is New Year's and we've had a lot of hard news this morning. So, we're going to talk a little music, a little classic rock. I got to hang out with the classic rockers Chicago.</s>LEMON: What? You did?</s>HARLOW: You are jealous.</s>LEMON: Jealous.</s>HARLOW: As they celebrate 50 years of music. We get a preview of their New Year's documentary, next.