Pennsylvania Primary: Democrats Get In Last Minute Campaigning
LEMON: All right. Finally, it's here. After weeks of harsh words and attack ads, it could be make or break time in the Democratic presidential race. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama spending a final day on the stomp, on the attack ahead of tomorrow's crucial Pennsylvania primary. We have new poll numbers for you. CNN's Poll of Polls in Pennsylvania suggests Clinton has 50 percent support, seven points ahead of Barack Obama. But seven percent say they are still unsure. So let's very quickly bring in our roundtable -- two Democratic strategists, two sides. Julian Epstein, a Clinton supporter. Jamal Simmons is an Obama supporter. Hey, Julian, I want to ask you real quick, do you think most people have made up their minds?</s>JULIAN EPSTEIN, CLINTON SUPPORTER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think most people have. But I think there are enough undecideds so that you could either have a narrow win for Obama or a very significant double digit win for Clinton. So most have, but there's enough that could make the difference right now that haven't made their minds up.</s>LEMON: All right, well, Jamal, you saw that the poll of polls, Clinton, 50 percent, seven points -- seven percentage points ahead of Barack Obama. Do you think at this late time that people have made up their minds and do you expect an upset when you see these poll numbers?</s>JAMAL SIMMONS, OBAMA SUPPORTER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I don't really expect an upset. Senator Clinton is pretty far ahead. She's been bouncing around between a five point lead to a 10 point lead, really, for the last two weeks, the last 10 days. So they'll probably finish somewhere inside of that bandwidth. The closer it is to five points, though, the more troubling it is for Senator Clinton and I think we'll be taking a look to see which populations turned out for which candidate. Barack Obama has got a very strong ground game, a very strong turnout operation. But Senator Clinton, you know, will most likely catch the break on late deciding and undecided voters.</s>LEMON: OK, Julian, we have seen -- and I've heard from people in Pennsylvania, mostly in Philadelphia. They say you cannot turn on the television without seeing an -- ad an attack ad, usually, but especially an ad for Barack Obama. He's spending a lot of money there. Do you think that this is -- especially the attack ads -- has this helped or hurt any one of the two candidates?</s>EPSTEIN: Well, I think, you know, the old expression, politics ain't beanbag. I think that the longer the race goes on, the more excitement there is, the higher the turnout is. But I think the negativity is hurting both of them, at least on the margins. Barack Obama...</s>LEMON: But do you think the negativity, though -- I've got to jump in and ask you. Do you think the negativity is hurting -- and this is what the polls are showing -- Hillary Clinton nationally. But what about in Pennsylvania, where these ads are running? Do we know that for sure, if it's helping or hurting her?</s>EPSTEIN: Well, she actually popped up ahead on Democratic voters over the weekend at the Gallup Poll. I think that the negatives for both of them have gone up as a result of negative campaigning. As you point out, Barack is spending -- outspending Hillary Clinton three to one and previously had really foresworn negative campaigning. But over the weekend, as you see not just with the ads, but the robo-calls and the campaign call on Saturday where they wanted to raise -- re-raise these issues about Hillary Clinton's trip to Bosnia. I think what you're going to see as a result is that there -- this election tomorrow is going to be a referendum mostly on Barack Obama. There have been a lot of questions -- some of them unfair -- raised about his statements and associations. He's now taken on negative campaigning, which Jamal said last week was not -- was something that he stayed away from. I think if he wins the race in Pennsylvania or comes very, very close, then I think he might be able to argue that he has been able to withstand those attacks...</s>LEMON: OK.</s>EPSTEIN: If Hillary Clinton wins, I think people will say, look, we're really -- and if she wins big -- we're really beginning to have second thoughts about Barack Obama's electability.</s>SIMMONS: Don...</s>LEMON: OK, Jamal, wait. You heard that, but I want to ask -- I've got to ask you this. I mean he talked about the attack ads. Let's talk about the debate which just happened. I mean a lot of criticism from everywhere, you know, what ABC did, Barack Obama's performance. As a Barack Obama supporter, what do you make of his performance?</s>SIMMONS: Well, I don't think that Barack Obama would ever make Denzel Washington's "Great Debater" team from that movie that came out last year. But I think that...</s>LEMON: Do you think, though, his -- I mean, and I get what you're saying. But do you think his performance in that debate hurt him?</s>SIMMONS: Do I think it hurt him? No, I don't think it hurt him. I mean, listen, presidential campaigns are -- I think Obama says it -- Senator Obama says it himself, they're like decathlons, not like marathons. There are all sorts of different events you have to be competitive in.</s>LEMON: Right.</s>SIMMONS: He's not that great at debates. But he's a very good speech maker. He's an extraordinary writer. He's great one-on-one with voters...</s>LEMON: OK.</s>SIMMONS: But aren't his forte.</s>LEMON: OK...</s>SIMMONS: But I don't want to leave this negative ad thing, because -- all right, let's just go to this one second. We did see Senator Clinton do something today which is really appalling. She put an ad up with Osama bin Laden in it to try to scare voters in Pennsylvania. We all saw this in 2002, when they did this against -- when the Republicans did this against Max Cleland. And even people like John...</s>LEMON: Jamal...</s>SIMMONS: ...and even people like John McCain said it was too much. I think that the negativity on behalf of Senator Clinton is going to have to stop after they get out of Pennsylvania...</s>EPSTEIN: Well, but, to be fair, Jamal...</s>SIMMONS: ...or else she's going to be dinging up the ultimate nominee.</s>LEMON: All right, that's...</s>EPSTEIN: To be fair, Jamal. To be fair, Jamal do you think...</s>LEMON: Hey, I'm sorry. That's going to have to be the final word. We're out of time. I'm sorry to both of you.</s>EPSTEIN: Well, there's negativity going on on both sides.</s>LEMON: Yes. Julian and Jamal, thank you both, but we've run out of time. I could talk about this with you guys all afternoon. It's going to be pretty interesting to see how it plays out. And regarding those ads that both of you are talking about, I'm sure "THE SITUATION ROOM" will be taking care of that. Thank you both. Have a great day.</s>EPSTEIN: Thanks for having us.</s>SIMMONS: Thank you.</s>LEMON: I'll see you tomorrow, maybe. And you can join the league of first time voters at CNN.com. Get accurate, easy to find information about voting, express yourself and connect with others. Check out CNN.com/league right now and become a member.</s>DE LA CRUZ: A powerful wind followed by a dramatic rescue on Lake Michigan. The latest on the victims in the CNN NEWSROOM.