Former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch Testifies in House Impeachment Hearings; Office of Management and Budget Official to Testify to Congress regarding Delay in Providing Military Aid to Ukraine
CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good morning to you, Saturday, November 16th at 10:00 a.m. We're glad that you're up with us. I'm Christi Paul.</s>VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. You are in the CNN Newsroom.</s>PAUL: So just moments ago, Mark Sandy, seen there, an official with the White House Budget Office, arriving on Capitol Hill. He's complying with a subpoena to answer questions about military aid to Ukraine.</s>BLACKWELL: Lawmakers are looking for a timeline here. When was the aid put on hold, when was it released?</s>PAUL: Today's testimony follows an explosive day in the impeachment inquiry yesterday, though. For the very first time a witness says he personally heard President Trump demand Ukraine investigate the Bidens.</s>BLACKWELL: And even more here, this State Department official says that he was told that the president didn't really care about Ukraine, only, quote, the big stuff that involved the president.</s>PAUL: And Democrats are accusing President Trump of witness intimidation after he insulted the former ambassador to Ukraine on Twitter. He tweeted as she was testifying.</s>BLACKWELL: President Trump slammed her and her job performance, and then said he had a right to defend himself.</s>PAUL: We're covering this from all angles for you. Rene Marsh in Washington, Sarah Westwood at the White House, Kristen Holmes on Capitol Hill.</s>BLACKWELL: Let's start with Kristen. Kristen, good morning to you.</s>KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning there, Victor. That's exactly right. So essentially what we just saw was Mark Sandy going behind these closed doors. He is a career official with the Office of Management and Budget, and they're hoping to get that timeline, as you said, to see what he knew about withholding that funding from Ukraine. And I want to talk about that testimony that happened last night behind closed doors, because we're hearing from a lot of Democrats here who are saying that this was really critical testimony, that they believe it advanced the impeachment inquiry. And here's why. This is about a man named Dave Holmes. He is a staffer at the U.S. embassy in Ukraine, and we learned through public testimony earlier this week that he overheard a conversation between President Trump and the ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland. And I want to set the scene here just like Holmes did in his testimony. He says he was able to hear this conversation because they were out to a meal. It was him, Sondland, two other staffers, when Sondland placed this call to President Trump. President Trump, speaking so loudly that Holmes was able to hear him. At one point, Sondland actually had to move the phone away from his ear, that's how loudly he was talking. And so this is what Holmes says that he heard in this conversation. He said "I then heard President Trump ask so he's going to do the investigation? Ambassador Sondland replied he's going to do it, adding that President Zelensky will do anything you ask him to." Now, the phone conversation ended there, but the conversation between Sondland and Holmes did not. Holmes asking Sondland is it true that President Trump doesn't care about Ukraine? And Holmes says that Sondland replied that the president only cares about, quote, "Big stuff that benefits the president, like the Biden investigation that Mr. Giuliani was pushing." Now, this raises a lot of questions. First of all, it brings President Trump closer to this pressure campaign. But it also raises questions about Gordon Sondland, who testified behind closed doors and never mentioned this phone call. So he will be testifying in public next week, and obviously, this is going to be a question that these lawmakers have.</s>PAUL: Kristen Holmes, we appreciate it so much. Thank you. I want to bring in CNN's Rene Marsh here as well, because we've heard from ambassadors, Rene, we've heard from diplomats and policy experts. People might be wondering why are we hearing from an official from the Budget Office?</s>RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Right. So this has really become central, the Office of Management and Budget, also known as OMB. Essentially, for people who don't know, this agency doles out money that Congress approves. They make sure that agencies don't overspend. And they also make sure that the money that's been approved is spent. And that's why this agency has become so central, because this is where the freezing of that aid occurred. Mark Sandy, who we just arrived on Capitol Hill for his closed-door deposition, he will be the first OMB employee to testify behind closed doors. He's a long-time career employee. He's worked under administrations of both parties. And so far we have had very little visibility on the behind-the-scenes workings for how this all played out. Democratic investigators are really hoping that Sandy will shed some light on those internal conversations when the administration was taking this very unusual step of freezing this $400 million in military aid that Congress, by the way, had already approved for Ukraine. Now, he will likely be asked several questions, including did the freeze raise any alarm for him. Was he told why it was happening? How involved was he in this process, or was he cut out of the process at some point, and we do know that political appointees signed some of the documents freezing this aid, and that in itself is very unusual, according to sources who have spoken to CNN. Back to you guys.</s>BLACKWELL: All right, Rene Marsh for us. Rene, thank you.</s>PAUL: To the White House and our own Sarah Westwood here. Sarah, have you heard a reaction from the White House this morning to all of this yet?</s>SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Christi, all through yesterday the White House was continuing to attack the impeachment inquiry, the Democrats who are leading it, and they've been trying to undermine the credibility of the witnesses that we've seen testify so far. And that pattern continued yesterday with the president tweeting out that attack on former ambassador to the Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, as she was sitting in the chair testifying before the House Intelligence Committee. Chairman Schiff gave Yovanovitch a chance to respond to the president's attacks. She said she felt intimidated, and even some Republicans said publicly after that that they did not degree with the president's decision to tweet an attack on the witness as she was testifying. Democrats are saying they might consider this witness intimidation. House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn even saying that they could possibly consider it as a potential article of impeachment when the inquiry reaches that point. President Trump yesterday defending himself, said he was just exercising his free speech rights, and he didn't think he was intimidating anyone. Take a listen.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you trying to intimidate Ambassador Yovanovitch?</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just want to have a total -- I want freedom of speech. That's a political process. The Republicans have been treated very badly.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, do you believe you tweets --</s>TRUMP: Quiet. Quiet.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, do you believe your tweets or words can be intimidating?</s>TRUMP: I don't think so at all.</s>WESTWOOD: Campaign sources tell CNN THAT many privately believe it was a mistake for the president to attack Yovanovitch as she was testifying before the House Intelligence Committee, with one source telling CNN that it allowed Democrats to control the narrative surrounding yesterday's hearing, so putting the president and his allies at a messaging disadvantage as they were trying to combat what was an emotional day of testimony on Capitol Hill yesterday, Victor and Christi.</s>BLACKWELL: We saw certainly a few Republicans push back against the tweet from the president yesterday. Sarah Westwood for us, thank you so much.</s>PAUL: Thanks, Sarah. So the president ignores the advice from his most senior military commanders by intervening in three highly consequential war crime cases. That's coming up.</s>BLACKWELL: Plus, former president Barack Obama issues a warning to the 2020 Democratic candidates. We'll tell you what that is.