President Trump Flip-Flops On Rally Regrets
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Good evening. Chris Cuomo is off tonight. Welcome to a special hour of 360. We start things off with President Trump's walk-back of his limited and evidently insincere walk-back of his performance in North Carolina Wednesday night. When we went on air that evening, he had just launched another attack on four non-White Congresswomen, and we had just seen him watch the crowd chant "Send her back!" to -- about Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, who is a naturalized refugee from Somalia, an American citizen. And there, the President stood for 13 seconds, soaking it all in, waiting for the chanting to grow and then eventually die down. Yesterday, while falsely claiming that he tried to stop it, he also said he disagreed with the crowd. Well, less than 24 hours later, starting with a string of tweets and then two televised appearances, he renewed his attacks on the women. No more talk of any regrets or feeling uncomfortable. It was like -- in fact, he went onto level a series of false allegations about two of the women, which were quickly debunked. Pretty depressing end to the week. CNN's Kaitlan Collins who was at the rally Wednesday night joins us now from the White House. Kaitlan, I'm going to say it's hard not to get whiplash following the President's back and forth on all this. I mean, walking back his walk-back yesterday, and then Lara Trump, the daughter-in-law going on Fox, lying, saying that it was just a couple of people chanting, when clearly it was more than just a couple of people chanting.</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's not true. We were there. It was very loud. It was so loud that the President stopped speaking for those 13 seconds to let them continue on, in this arena that seats about 8,000 people or so. But really, Anderson, this is essentially the President's art of the deal. He'll say something controversial. It will put his Republican allies in a bind, something they don't want to defend. And then you'll see the President walk it back just enough, like he did yesterday, when he said he didn't agree with the chant, and that reporters should go to North Carolina and ask those people why they were chanting it, even though he didn't mention the fact about his tweets on Sunday. And then today, in the Oval Office, he strikes a much more defiant tone, defending those supporters, saying that they're just patriots. They are that they love the country, and instead focusing on these negative attacks on those women instead of that chant that started at his own rally.</s>COOPER: Right. And the other thing that Lara Trump said, and it goes to -- to the other thing the President said, which he just mentioned about you should go there and ask them why they were chanting it, they were chanting it because he brought up this whole idea of her going back, as if she, you know, as if all of these people are not American. And Lara Trump then, also before the President went on, whipped up the crowd, you know, encouraging people to say, you know, "If -- if they don't like America, what can they do," and everyone said, "Leave." I mean they were chanting it because he whipped it up.</s>COLLINS: Yes. I've been to dozens of Trump rallies. They've never shouted anything like that before, even though these chants are pretty popular at these rallies, and that's really essentially what happens to people around the President, even his allies over on Capitol Hill. They'll defend something he's saying. They'll love it or leave it when it comes to the USA, like Lara Trump did before the Vice President and President Trump got on stage. And then, when he tries to back off of it, they say "Well it was loud and he couldn't hear," or "It was only a few people," when that's just simply not the case. It was a big arena. There was a lot of people chanting it. And it was incredibly loud.</s>COOPER: Yes. And he encouraged it. Kaitlan Collins, thank you very much. More now, on the political repercussions, if there are any, but also some of the bigger questions, including whether Democrats have a strategy for opposing this kind of racist behavior. Joining us, Political Consultant Stuart Stevens, former Mitt Romney Campaign Adviser, also CNN Political Commentator, Amanda Carpenter, served as Communications Director for Senator Ted Cruz, and is the recent Author of "Gaslighting America: Why We Love It When Trump Lies to Us," which is a fascinating book, and particularly appropriate tonight. Also with us, Democratic Strategist, former Senior Clinton Campaign Spokesperson, and CNN Political Commentator, Karen Finney. So Amanda, I mean you talk about gaslighting in your book, this type of strategy, if -- if that's what this is, a strategy, it certainly worked for the President in 2016. Do you think it's going to work for him again in 2020?</s>AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, listen, he's been playing in the Pandora's box of racism since he started with the Central Park Five. But I do think, this time, it's becoming different. The box is wide open. If you look at what happened in Charlottesville, do I think that President Trump necessarily wanted Heather Heyer to get killed and for Nazis to be marching on those beautiful grounds? No. But could he stop it? No. It's out there. And so, he can't stop it, and he won't stop it, because in the end, he thinks that it helps him. And I don't know where this is going to go. He's going to keep cultivating this, denying responsibility, but he is diving in. This is where the gaslighting happens. He says other people are saying this. "Other people were talking about Obama's birtherism, other people are talking about the Central Five," but he's diving right into it, and I don't know where it's going to go.</s>COOPER: Yes. Stuart, I mean, again, he's tapping into something very dangerous that we have seen time and time again throughout American history.</s>STUART STEVENS, POLITICAL CONSULTANT & WRITER: Yes. I -- I disagree with Amanda that it's a strategy. I think Trump is a racist, so he says racist things. I really don't think it's very complicated. And the question for the Republican Party is, "Are you going to tolerate this?" It's really a moral test that Trump keeps putting out there, and the Republican Party keeps failing. I don't think it's smart politics, and I think it's horrible for the country.</s>COOPER: Karen, how do Democrats respond to all of this? I mean, earlier this week, Dana Bash reported on a meeting of House Democrats where they reviewed internal polling, showing that the most forceful message against the President is making the argument that he's ineffective on issues like infrastructure and jobs. That was before this chant.</s>KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. I mean that's the pro -- that's the thing, right? So, even if Democrats were going to back off on it, then you had this chanting happen. And then today, as the President was leaving for New Jersey for the weekend, he, you know, went to the microphones, and again, you know, pulled on that thread, so I think there's a couple of things, Anderson. I think Democrats ideally should step back, and let it reveal the fact that if this is what the President thinks he should be focused on, rather than infrastructure, whatever happened to that, creating jobs, healthcare, and I think Democrats need to do more to highlight the fact that it is the Republicans in the Senate, it is the President who are the -- are blocking things moving forward. Unfortunately, I think the reality -- there's the other side of this, which is you can't let this kind of talk go unsaid. I mean to someone like me who, as a child, was said -- was told "Go back to Africa," and I had no idea what people were talking about, you know, we are a diverse country. These women represent, you know, diverse cultures, and we are part of the American story. So, I think there's also responsibility for Democrats to call it out. But I think they have to keep that dual focus while also trying to continue to get the work done, as Pelosi was frankly trying to do with this debt ceiling conversation.</s>COOPER: It is amazing Amanda that, you know, even when the President was sort of pretending to express some, a little bit of regret, you know, he called it quite a chant, and that it was loud, which then against -- goes against what Lara Trump was saying, which is it was just a couple of people.</s>FINNEY: Yes.</s>COOPER: And he also lies about how he tried to stop it. I just -- it's amazing to me that I mean all his lies, I mean it's been this way from the beginning. But his lies are dependent, are sort of predicated on the notion that we're all just idiots, we can't see what is -- we can't see video of what he is actually doing, and that we're -- we're all just, or that his supporters are -- are looking for any reason to forgive him, and so he's -- they can that, you know, yesterday, they were all out saying, "Oh, well, he's repudiated it." Now today, you know, they're kind of quiet.</s>CARPENTER: Yes. This is essential to his gaslighting that he continues to draw the country into. It's called advance and deny. He advances these narratives but denies responsibility to it. The fact that the campaign went out there at this message of love it or leave it, which they thought was cute, and so somehow that was defensible.</s>FINNEY: Yes.</s>CARPENTER: But that's not what the audience heard. The audience heard "Send her back!" as if there's some kind of difference there. I -- probably in a few weeks, Donald Trump is going to be out there saying "Send her back right there with them," because he's baiting the audience to get into this. He wants us all to debate racism. And I agree completely with Karen that the Democrats can't get drawn into this too much. They do have to acknowledge it. And I don't see any reason why the 2020 election should not be a referendum on Donald Trump's character. Ro Khanna was on the air, Democratic Congressman from California, who's endorsed Bernie Sanders. He kind of had an interesting idea. He wanted Barack Obama to come out and do--</s>FINNEY: Yes.</s>CARPENTER: --a speech on race. I think that's interesting. But the Democratic candidate who wins this election should be the one to give that speech and show us a higher, better way that uplifts people because Donald Trump wants nothing more than this to be a negative, negative election that takes us down to the barrel, where we were in 2016, and someone has to lift us out of it.</s>COOPER: Stuart, when -- when the next crowd, auditorium full of people, the next, you know, Trump rally start chanting "Send her back!" what do you think Trump does?</s>STEVENS: I think Amanda's exactly right. He's just going to enjoy it, and he's going to do it. You can't -- Trump isn't going to change. And I think expecting Trump to change is just going to be a failure. The question here is what is the Republican Party going to do? I mean this has been the great failure of the modern Republican parties with African-American voters. In '56, Eisenhower got 39 percent, and then with Goldwater, dropped to 7 percent because he opposed the Civil Rights Act. And it's never come back. And that really is the great stain on the Republican Party, and it's only getting worse now. This is a moment when the party has to decide what kind of party it's going to be and--</s>COOPER: But is that even a question? I mean hasn't--</s>FINNEY: Well--</s>COOPER: --hasn't that already been decided?</s>CARPENTER: Yes.</s>COOPER: I mean, that would -- you know.</s>FINNEY: It would seem.</s>STEVENS: Yes,</s>I -- I-- CARPENTER: Yes, I think there's a question. Would Marco Rubio go to--</s>FINNEY: But--</s>CARPENTER: --another rally like he did when he kicked off the President's re-election in Florida a couple of weeks ago. I mean what Republicans are going to sit on stage? I do think some Republicans in the Senate--</s>FINNEY: Well--</s>CARPENTER: --have probably made the calculation that "Listen, we can't stop Trump from being a bad character, but we can stop bad policy. And so, if we have to fight on policy, we'll go there. We can't do much else."</s>FINNEY: But they also haven't. But the Republicans have not been willing to stand up to him even very much to make good policy. I mean what we see is things just kind of stalling. And I think that, you know, long-term, this is a disaster for the Republican Party. I remember, I'm old enough to remember, you know, the realignment that Karl Rove, was trying and George W. Bush was trying to, you know, court Latinos, and -- and he got a little bit of the African-American vote.</s>COOPER: Yes.</s>FINNEY: And I think, you know, part of the -- the -- the challenge here, Anderson is, you know, the diversity of this country is here. This is the reality. And Trump is trying to continue to coalesce around sort of the demographics of the recent past.</s>COOPER: Yes.</s>FINNEY: And Democrats are trying to focus on the future.</s>COOPER: Yes. Let's see.</s>FINNEY: And I think that'll be -- it will be all a matter of turnout in 2020.</s>COOPER: Karen Finney, thank you, Amanda Carpenter, Stuart Stevens, always, thank you very much. Coming up next, how two Trump voters in 2016 see things and now see things differently from one another this time around.</s>DONALD J. TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Economically, the country is doing really well.