White House Outlines Tough Immigration Enforcement; Intelligence: ISIS Bomber is Likely Born in U.K.; Millions Of Undocumented Immigrants Risk Deportation; "Dreamers" Not Affected By New Guidelines; Trump Administration Sets Stage For Mass Deportation; Trump Vows To Build Wall He Promised In Campaign; Mexico Fiercely Opposes Trump Border Wall; Le Pen Staffers Questioned Over Alleged Fake Jobs
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani live from CNN London. Thanks for being with us this Wednesday. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. We begin this hour with two memos that could affect millions of lives. Donald Trump's administration is cracking down on the illegal immigration dramatically widening the net for deportation. Many of the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. could now be targeted, those who've committed crimes, but also those suspected of crimes being considered a priority under new enforcement order. Even a simple traffic violation technically could end up tearing families apart. The secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, and Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly are heading to Mexico City today. The White House says they'll discuss the new orders with Mexico's president.</s>SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Secretary Tillerson and Secretary Kelly are going to have a great discussion down there and to walk through the implementation of the executive order, but I feel very confident that any country who has a citizen that comes into this country and that we send back, we'll make sure that they comply with this.</s>GORANI: Well, the new orders have immigrant communities across the U.S. on edge, but President Trump supporters say they are glad he's following through on after all what was a key campaign promise. He said he'd do it. He's done it. Let's bring in CNN White House reporter, Stephen Collinson. So it was a campaign promise and he's working at a rapid clip here, isn't he? I mean, he's trying to get through all these campaign promises with executive orders and memos from the Department of Homeland Security in this case asking some of these border patrol agents to enforce laws that are already in place much more vigorously.</s>STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, Hala. I don't think there's any other way to look at this than as a very rigorous crackdown on undocumented immigrants in the United States is going to change the way a lot of them live their lives. When you have 11 million undocumented migrants, you basically have a choice, either you prioritize people who you want to deport as the Obama administration did. So they prioritized people who were proven to be criminals or national security threats or you do what the Trump administration is trying to do and deport many more people by widening the criteria. So it's not just people who are proven criminals. It's people who are charged with a crime who have not been charged with an offense that could turn out to be a crime or who in the opinion of police officers who are now going to be used to, you know, enforce these immigration laws could be a threat to public safety. So that's a huge net. Effectively that means almost all of the 11 million undocumented people in the United States could theoretically be prey to deportations. So this is a real change and I think the way to look at it is codifying in U.S. law and U.S. practice. The promises as you say that Donald Trump made, which were very attractive to people who thought that illegal immigrants were taking away their jobs and making them less safe.</s>GORANI: But, of course, he's fulfilling a campaign promise. So presumably that means there is support in the United States. I mean, it's public opinion in support of this initiative to widen the net of those who can be forcibly removed from the territory?</s>COLLINSON: I think there's public support among many Republicans and many people who supported Trump. The question is, if it turns that there is widespread deportations going on. This idea of a deportation force, Trump has said he's going to hire thousands more Customs and Border agents, and immigration personnel. If that were to happen, would that be a sustainable public position? You know, police going door to door, taking people off the streets, that's the question. One of the questions about this also is the relationship between local authorities and local enforcement authorities and communities throughout the United States, Hispanic communities, and immigrant communities. That could really raise tensions there and of course, perhaps people not to report petty crimes because they feel that the police might show up and asked to see their papers and cut them off if they are not legal. So I think, you know, in theory, yes, there is public support of this, but in practice, that could well be another thing.</s>GORANI: But we don't exactly know -- I mean, because it is open to interpretation, this idea that if you have in some way committed a criminal offense that therefore, you can be targeted for deportation. Just overstaying your visa technically is an offense. I mean, that would make anybody who is undocumented in the United States, you know, potentially the target of deportation, right? So I mean, who gets to decide ultimately how to interpret this sort of more vigorous enforcement of these laws?</s>COLLINSON: It looks like it's going to be immigration officials, the medium and lower levels who will actually get to decide the practice of how these laws were enforced. As I said, one of the measures that Secretary Kelly outlined was to allow local law enforcement officers, discretion to also enforce immigration laws. So you've talked about this scenario, if there was a traffic stop and the person didn't have correct papers under the Obama administration is likely that that would have been turned a blind eye to. Under the Trump administration, given the fact that the president has the ultimate law enforcement official. And he has basically said that people should be deported for these kind of crimes or offensive, not even crimes, these people could find themselves, you know, their immigration status call into question. So there's going to be a lot of discretion at the local levels and that's the reason why we don't exactly how this is going to pan out.</s>GORANI: And David Swerdlick of "The Washington Post" can join us now. We were mentioning President Obama. Obama wasn't exactly soft on undocumented migrants. Between 2009 and 2015, 2.7 million people were deported from the country. Rush Limbaugh was a conservative talk show host called Barack Obama, the "deporter-in-chief." So this is a continuation in some ways of that approach, isn't it, David?</s>DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Hala, hello. Indeed, Rush Limbaugh referred to the president at the "deporter-in-chief." Many critics on the left as well used some version of that criticism of President Obama. He despite -- you know, the impressions of a lot of folks, he deported more people than President George W. Bush. In his eight years in the White House, he deported more people during his eight years than any previous president. So there is a continuation in a sense of strict enforcement of the border or of illegal immigration from the current White House. At the same time, Hala, I think flags have been raised and there is additional concern in the immigrant's rights community because of the swiftness and the expansion of the sort of scope as you were just saying of the discretion of officers on the ground to detain and deport.</s>GORANI: So what's the expectation, David? Are we going to see these mass sweeps, you know, of border agents just going into border towns and detaining dozens, hundreds of people, I mean, what is the expectation of how this will -- what this will mean on the ground and some of those communities?</s>SWERDLICK: Well, I don't think we should get ahead of ourselves at the same time. You know, you have immigrant rights activists signaling that they don't feel like this do over, this second pass by the Trump administration have this immigration executive order is in any way reassuring. I actually last night talked to Omar (inaudible), who is the Immigrants Rights Project director for the American Civil Liberties Union, and what he said to me was look, you know, this was an opportunity for the Trump administration to show that they were going to take a more recent, more humane approach to, you know, figuring out how they're going to deal with the issue of undocumented immigrants. And signal the people that they are going the law, but at the same time, take into account that there are families involved, that there are real people involved. They don't think, though, that this second pass of the order does that in any meaningful way.</s>GORANI: All right, David Swerdlick, thanks very much. Stephen Collinson, thanks to both of you as always. Let's talk more now about the legalities of these new immigration orders and any court challenges they might face. We're joined by CNN legal analyst, Laura Coates. She is a former federal prosecutor. Laura, thanks for being with us. Just to be clear, these are not new laws here we're talking about?</s>LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: They're not new laws. What they are doing now is that your guests were talking about it, but it changes who gets to have the discretion. But the real issue we are facing here is when you have rhetoric that's trying to be realized. And in here you have an issue of trying to give discretion to officers to decide not who should be deported, but who can even be suspected of a crime. If we were just talking about deporting people or accusing people of crimes or convicting them of crimes, that will be a different issue. We have the accusation alone of a crime, can be enough make you a very big priority for deportation, and that raises a whole lot of constitutional issues in the United States.</s>GORANI: And what kind of issues would that raise? I mean, essentially and also there are concerns from people who oppose these harsher measures that it could lead to racial profiling, for instance? COATES. In fact, it's exactly what it leads to, is racial profiling, but you know, just because you are somebody who is an undocumented immigrant in the United States does not mean that you don't have some access to constitutional protections. In fact, the Supreme Court has been very clear that they have the fourth, fifth and sixth, all very key amendments talking about how the police can enter your life, how they can search, how they can see, your right to counsel, and your right, most importantly, to due process. Meaning a notice and an opportunity to be heard, and when you have the discretion that's given to officers across the country to decide who can be -- who's accused of a crime, whether that makes him a higher priority. You often flout the fourth, fifth, and sixth amendments, and our Supreme Court, although, we are short change, only having eight right now has been clear for decades and decades that even people who are in our jurisdiction, without maybe a documented, entitling him to be there, do have those protections available to them. And so --</s>GORANI: Regardless -- yes, I was going to say regardless of whether they are legal residents or whether they are undocumented migrants. It doesn't matter. Those amendments apply to them.</s>COATES: They do and the reason for that is because, you know, the action we are talking about is, talk about the fourth, the fifth, any amendments to the Constitution. The judiciary, the judicial branch has invested interest to making sure that no other branch violates the constitution. It's about what type of laws or executive orders may violate our constitution regardless of whether there's an actual person who is harmed, the government cannot make laws that will harm people or violate those amendments and this is case where you may have a situation where there is a blue print for that very egregious conduct.</s>GORANI: But let's talk one last question here about and you were a federal prosecutor, you know this, it's getting people through the system, processing people not just arresting them, detaining them, getting them a hearing. If we're talking about hundreds of thousands, potentially millions more than we already have in the system, logistically speaking, I mean, that's a huge, huge challenge.</s>COATES: It is and one that President Obama tried to combat by allowing people who were going to be detained to return to their families at some portion to avoid the backlog of people who are going to be waiting for sometimes up to two years to even have a hearing and have their due process rights given. Now this new administration cited that no longer applies. That you're going have a backlog of people who are detained without a hearing for maybe years at a time unless you also have more judges who are put in place to try to combat that, but right now we're talking about appropriations and the funding of that. And you really still have the underlying concerns in the states which says, listen, you cannot allow so much discretion about trying to figure out who is suspected perhaps of committing a crime or who might be likely to commit a crime because that is a blueprint for profiling and a blueprint for a constitutional violation.</s>GORANI: All right, Laura Coates, there is going to be a lot of very passionate certainly conversations and debate taking place over this as always. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. Let's take you to the ground where this is all playing out, the U.S. immigration orders could lead to some hardship for people from Mexico who are in the United States undocumented. Now anyone who crosses the border illegally could be sent back to Mexico whether they're Mexican or not. That's an issue too. Many migrants from Honduras, Guatemala, and other Central American countries attempt the journey every year. And Mexico's foreign minister making clear his country will not accept unilateral U.S. immigration proposals. He said Mexico could ask the U.N. to intervene. Let's go to Polo Sandoval. He's live along the U.S.-Mexico border. He's covering a visit to the region by the House speaker in the United States, Paul Ryan, and other Republicans as well. Polo, I want to ask you first just what the border patrol agents that you're speaking to -- those people who are in charge of protecting that border, are they supportive of these new harsher measures?</s>POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hala, I could tell you that many law enforcement officials here, for example, in South Texas, those that are in the front lines of this border battle. They have told me that they welcome any help that they can get because as you just mentioned, this is essentially the center of what -- this large number of people that continue to pour into the United States. In fact, the reason why the U.S. -- at least, Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House of Representatives in the United States traveled here is because this place here in South Texas since 2013 carries the title of being the place that sees the most apprehensions of undocumented people along the roughly 500 river kilometers or so, part of it that you see behind me. And this is the House speaker landed today. This is where he end up too to speak to some of those law enforcement officials. So I think we're seeing here is this concern that they may not perhaps have those -- the manpower that they need to be able to closely monitor as much as the border as they can. This is an issue that has been playing out for years. It's been playing an issue when I was a local reporter down here many years ago and it's something that people are still talking about. So they simply hope that when some of these high level officials like Speaker Ryan traveled to the region, then perhaps that brings the spotlight back to the region be frontlines of what is this debate.</s>GORANI: So where you are that's a crossing point that's used a lot by undocumented migrants, is that -- is there some sort of fence or wall there, or is part of Donald Trump's proposed wall or fence going to go there? What's the landscape like where you are?</s>SANDOVAL: Yes, a bit of both, Hala. If I may, I may step out of the shot here, just so you can see for yourself what the border looks like. We are several hundred yards away from the real grand itself, which that boundary that separates both the U.S. and Mexico. There is what it is referred to as a border wall levy here, which is the Army Corps of Engineers back in 2006, they basically went in here and reinforced a levy that I'm standing on right now with concrete. So it serves two purposes there. It is protecting some of the communities from flooding, but it is also helping funnel some of the illegal traffic, undocumented people, and also some of the narcotics. Its area is similar to what we're standing on. This is where we often see border patrol agents stationed. This is where they typically encounter not just some of those undocumented families, but also some of those unaccompanied, undocumented children, and also some of those (inaudible). But yes, this is one of the regions that could potentially be affected when or if Donald Trump's wall is built. For now, though, people just are hoping that a solution comes together especially if the wall is a solution. But many people here, they obviously feel very strongly about that and even oppose that.</s>GORANI: Sure. But the other issue too is that it's not just Mexicans that might be driven back to this border. It's other Latin Americans as we were reporting as well. They are not from Mexico. Some people are saying, OK, so you're going to throw out all these Guatemalans or wherever they come from and -- where are they going to go? They're not from that country. Is this going to lead to like camps along the border? I mean, these are -- people have so many questions about that? Is that the concern you're hearing?</s>SANDOVAL: Well, absolutely. I can tell you that U.S. officials have tried to put some pressure on their Mexican counterparts to be able to enforce or at least strengthen some of their current immigration laws because as you mentioned there. You have people from, for example, Central American countries who are just using Mexico as a channel, as a way to make their way to here where I'm standing right now, South Texas, because this is essentially the shortest route between Central America and the United States by setting foot on U.S. soil right here. So yes, as you may imagine there is some pressure there from some U.S. officials for their Mexican counterparts to have anything strengthen some of their current immigration and to try to essentially stop some of these individuals before they cross the river that you see behind me and set foot here on U.S. soil.</s>GORANI: All right, Polo Sandoval, thanks very much there from the border. Thanks for showing us where you are as well. It's interesting to see the landscape, the environment behind you. He's one of the frontrunners from France's top job, switching gears, a controversial figure, hoping to become the president, no fan of immigration either. Marine Le Pen though is now having some issues. She's embroiled in a scandal after her bodyguard and chief of staff were questioned by police. Her chief of staff, Catherine Griset, is now under formal investigation. Now they're alleged to have been paid for jobs that didn't exist at the European parliament with E.U. funds. Le Pen has denounced the allegations.</s>GORANI (voice-over): The French far-right leader was visiting a prison this morning when the news of her latest judicial troubles broke. As she toured the facility east of Paris, two of her closest aides were in police custody not far from the National Front Office. Thierry Legier, Le Pen's bodyguard, seen here arriving at police headquarters in (inaudible) this morning and Catherine Griset, her chief of staff were brought to answer questions about allegedly being paid for no- show jobs paid for with E.U. funds. Griset's attorney tweeted that he's not making any statements and Legier has an attorney, but has not made any comments. The European Anti-Fraud Office said Le Pen admitted they've been paid, but later during a radio interview, she denied having met with those officials. That office has already ordered Marine Le Pen, who is a member of the European parliament to pay back the nearly 340,000 euros it says were paid to the two aides for parliamentary works they never carried out. She's refused. Now the French judiciary wants answers as well. The allegations are similar to those made against the Republican state, Francois Fillon. Allegations that his family members were paid for no-show parliamentary jobs are the subject of an inquiry. Although he and his family have denied the allegations, they've already cost him his lead in the polls. Polls that Marine Le Pen now leads and she doesn't that compromised by allegations that her party workers were illegally paid with E.U. money.</s>MARINE LE PEN, FRENCH PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translator): The French people are well aware of the difference between genuine cases and political intrigues. The French people know perfectly well despite all your attempts that are well aware of the difference.</s>GORANI: Le Pen's party is blaming the media for the scandal saying their aim is to hurt her reputation. Le Pen's aides can be kept by police for 48 hours. If they're charged, Marine Le Pen would be the next in line for questioning. She's already said though that any charges against her would not prevent her standing in an election. She's confident she's going to win.</s>GORANI: Well, let's go live to Paris. Melissa Bell is there. So Melissa, just update our viewers, it appears as though, the chief of staff, has been released. But they are under investigation, these two, I'm not sure about the bodyguard whether he's still detained or not. But will this hurt Marine Le Pen politically because she's leading in the polls?</s>MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, she's been speaking in French media within the last hour, Hala, saying that this is an old investigation, and to be fair to her, this has been going on for some time. This all began as a European inquiry and indeed she's been ordered by the European Anti-Fraud Office to pay back some 340,000 euros in salaries paid to those two aides. That Europe says was not parliamentary work actually carried within the context of her work at the European parliament. She's of course a member of that European parliament. Now there has been a development. You're right, those two aides, Catherine Griset, who is her chief of staff has now been charged in this case. And that could not prove damaging for Marine Le Pen essentially this is part of the French investigation. So leaving aside that European (inaudible) to those allegations. This is the French judiciary looking into those same allegations. And the flip side of that same case, which is, if those aides were paid European money, they should have been paid. That means that they were essentially carrying out work here in France for a political party that was paid for in a fraudulent way. So could this damage Marine Le Pen? Certainly. She's after all the frontrunner now in an election where as you heard in that report, what the man who had been leading the Republican candidate has lost his lead as a result of these kinds of allegations. So she's fighting back against them, but they are almost certain to do her damage particularly because her principal opponent, who is now Emmanuel Macron had a really good bit of news today when he discovered that (inaudible), an established centrist here in France was in favor of joining his ranks. And his popularity is really likely to rise as a result of that. So Marine Le Pen facing judicial (inaudible) even political trouble as well.</s>GORANI: All right, Melissa Bell, thanks very much. It's nearly upon us, April 23rd, first round of the French election. The eyes of the world are on French politics these days. Still to come tonight, families flee from Western Mosul as Iraqi forces advanced, civilians are in serious danger of getting trapped once again between soldiers and ISIS fighters. We'll be right back.