Ed Gordon talks with Rep. Mel Watt (D-NC), chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, and Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA), for a look at the issues keeping Congress busy during the hot summer months.
ED GORDON, host: From NPR News, this is NEWS & NOTES.  I'm Ed Gordon.</s>ED GORDON, host: Pressure continues to build around White House adviser Karl Rove's role      in outing a covert CIA agent to the press.  This is just the latest flash      point in what is an unusually busy and contentious summer in the nation's      capital. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor says she's retiring;      Chief Justice William Rehnquist insists he is not.  And the recent      bombings in London have prompted a new wave of national security concerns      here at home.  Joining us for a closer look at these and other issues      keeping Congress busy are two members of the Congressional Black Caucus:      Caucus Chairman Mel Watt, congressman from North Carolina; and      California's congresswoman, Maxine Waters.</s>ED GORDON, host: I thank you both for joining us.</s>ED GORDON, host: Congressman Watt, let me start with you.  So much being written and      talked about over the airwaves about Karl Rove.  Talk to me about how you      see this situation.</s>Representative MEL WATT (Democrat, North Carolina): Well, I think we      should allow the investigation to continue to play itself out, and I'm      sure that we'll get to the bottom of this.  It's really not      hurting--certainly--hurting our cause by having it string out for a      period of time.  So let it go ahead and play itself out and we'll see      what happens.</s>ED GORDON, host: Maxine Waters, the common man may say that they don't care about      this much.  Their concern is the gas pump prices and other things.      Should the common man care if, in fact, Karl Rove was a part of this?</s>Congresswoman MAXINE WATERS (Democrat, California): Well, I think--I      think the common man does care somewhat.  Not so much that the average      citizen has identified it as an issue, but this further defines this      administration and the fact that it appears that their nuancing all the      time, that they aren't telling the truth, that tricks are being played.      This administration is losing credibility.  If you take a look at how      they've handled the war in Iraq, no weapons of mass destruction, it seems      as if they have literally hit a point when the American public is saying      `Something's wrong here.  We don't really believe them anymore.'  And I      think this Karl Rove thing adds to it.</s>ED GORDON, host: And a question for both of you very quickly.  In fact, we heard      the president some months ago say that if he found out, indeed, who was      behind this leak he would fire them.  Do you expect Karl Rove to be      fired?  And should he?  Congressman Watt?</s>Representative MEL WATT (Democrat, North Carolina): Well, I don't know if I expect it or not.  But I think it      will further add to the administration's lack of credibility if they      don't take some decisive action and fire him.  So they've really kind of      boxed themselves in, backed themselves into a corner on this issue.</s>ED GORDON, host: Maxine Waters?</s>Congresswoman MAXINE WATERS (Democrat, California): I think the same thing.  They have tried to give support      and stand with him, and I don't think that they thought they were going      to be discovered in the way that they are.  This independent      investigation has turned out to be more than they thought it would be.      So he may not want to fire him, but the street heat may be so much that      he may have to.</s>ED GORDON, host: Turn our attention to the Supreme Court.  One vacancy for sure,      and there is question whether or not in the next few months, and      certainly in the next year or so, we may see another.  Talk to me about,      Congresswoman Waters, what you would like to see from this nominee.</s>Congresswoman MAXINE WATERS (Democrat, California): Well, all of us are looking for someone who will be fair,      who will not go in there simply to advance the right-wing agenda, someone      that we can depend on to do the best job that they can in interpreting      the Constitution and making decisions in the best interests of all of the      citizens.  We get quite upset and concerned when there appears to be a      move by the right wing to get this president to pay them back for their      support by demanding that they get someone who will be their person on      the conservative agenda.  And so, I think the push and pull that you're      going to see, the efforts that are being mounted, both on the so-called      right and left, will help get us to the middle somewhere and that's      where, perhaps, we should land.</s>ED GORDON, host: We had most recently, Congressman Watt, Senator Kennedy on with      us. He talked to us about his concern and his readiness to oppose certain      nominees.  Would you, in fact--we keep hearing Alberto Gonzales' name      thrown up.  Would you, in fact, be able to support Mr. Gonzales if, in      fact, nominated?</s>Congresswoman MAXINE WATERS (Democrat, California): Well, I think we would certainly look at his record anew.      We had some concerns about him in his position as attorney general.      We've actually heard some good things about him in terms of his positions      on affirmative action and some other issues.  So we would study his      record carefully, and I don't want to make a commitment one way or      another at this point.  We have to see if he's nominated first.</s>ED GORDON, host: In fact, though, you've been sitting with the attorney general      talking about concerns that you have within the criminal justice system      here and the disproportionate representation of African-Americans within      it.</s>Representative MEL WATT (Democrat, North Carolina): Yes.  He actually reached out to me as the chair of the      Congressional Black Caucus and indicated that--a desire to work on some      of these justice issues.  But, of course, all of that was around the same      time that there was speculation about this Supreme Court nomination.  So      one wonders whether it was a legitimate outreach or whether it was part      of the campaign that's in--that seems to be going on to kind of improve      his credibility for the nomination fight.</s>ED GORDON, host: Maxine Waters, I know one of the things that you've been looking      at and something we talked about most recently was a recent ruling by the      high court, and that is of eminent domain.  And when we talk about the      appointment we see how important the appointment is when things like      eminent domain, affirmative action, etc., have really just squeaked      through, 5-to-4, based on the balance of the court today.</s>Congresswoman MAXINE WATERS (Democrat, California): Well, absolutely.  And that's a decision that I was really      absolutely appalled by, and I think many Americans were.  No one expected      the Supreme Court to talk about eminent domain to be used to take private      property for private use.  And some people see this as a liberal      decision.  Some see it as a not-so-liberal decision.  But the fact of the      matter is you're going to see both sides of the aisle oppose this.  We've      already introduced legislation that would, in fact, say you cannot take      private land for private use and, if you do, you're not going to get any      federal money.  You know, you jeopardize your transportation funds or      your HUD funds.  And so, we had to come at this very quickly because this      decision has frightened so many people.  We know that all of these cities      and towns in a lot of these small areas are--have developers with a lot      of money, big companies who would come in and influence these city      councils and community redevelopment agencies, going after beach      property, going after property that's very valuable in some of the poor      communities for development.  And we just don't think the reasons that      are being given in this case--New London, Connecticut, case--of use of      private lands for development to get rid of blight, to create jobs--we      don't think the Constitution meant any of that.  We simply saw in the      Constitution that they said you must compensate for taking of private      land for public use.  Nowhere is there any discussion about taking      private land for private use.  So I think we're going to win some tough      legislation on this one.</s>ED GORDON, host: Mel Watt, I know one of the things that the Congressional Black      Caucus has been looking at and we've talked about quite a bit on this      show is the Voting Rights Act.  And that, of course, expires in 2007.      There's a big push ahead to make sure that, in fact, this continues.</s>Representative MEL WATT (Democrat, North Carolina): Yes, but to make sure that it--not only the existing Voting      Rights Act provisions continue, but we're looking at whether we really      need to do something to insur--in fact, shore up the--some of the      provisions of Voting Rights Act that have been undercut by decisions of      the Supreme Court.  So we need to make sure that we do it right.  We need      to make sure that adequate hearings are conducted to justify it because      we think the Supreme Court is just looking for the rationale not to      uphold some of the provisions of the Voting Rights Act.</s>ED GORDON, host: Maxine Waters, let me turn to you and ask you a question.  For      years, you have been known as--in some people's minds no stigma attached      to this and others, they, in fact, do see it as a stigma--but an      agitator, even within your party, to make sure that they are, quote,      "doing the right thing."  Many people have said of late, the Democrats      are getting their clocks cleaned by Republicans.  I'm curious how you see      the party and where it is today.</s>Congresswoman MAXINE WATERS (Democrat, California): Well, obviously, there's a lot of work to be done.  Many of      the grassroots Democrats would like the Democratic Party to fight harder,      to be more vocal, to organize, to confront what they see as a swing      towards the right.  Many Americans have not, you know, considered      confronting this president while he's so-called fighting terrorism.  9/11      kind of changed the order of things, and so the president has been given      the opportunity to provide security and even at the expense of      undermining our civil liberties, like with the Patriot Act and Patriot      Act II that we're working on now.</s>Congresswoman MAXINE WATERS (Democrat, California): And so, I think that's caused Americans not to want to fight and      Democrats not to want to fight against this administration as hard, but      our constituencies are getting a little tired of that.  They want to hear      from us.  They want the fight.  They want to make the fight.  And on      August 6th, for example, we're going to be down in Atlanta a      cor--combination, a correlation, of organizations--and Jesse Jackson is      in the leadership of that--are convening in Atlanta August 6th to talk      about the Voting Rights Act, to rally, to teach in, to get Americans      aware that this act is up for renewal.  And people want to see more of      this.  So you're right.  I'm basically an agitator.  I operate outside      the box.  I think that's my role, and I believe that we've got to do more      of it.</s>ED GORDON, host: All right.  Congresswoman Maxine Waters, representing Los      Angeles, the 35th District.  And chair of the Congressional Black Caucus,      Congressman Mel Watt, who represents North Carolina's 12th District.  I      think you both for joining us today.  Greatly appreciate it and always      great to talk to you.</s>Congresswoman MAXINE WATERS (Democrat, California): Thank you very much.</s>Representative MEL WATT (Democrat, North Carolina): Nice to be with you.</s>ED GORDON, host: This is NPR News.