Another Possible Government Shutdown; President Nicholas Maduro Tries to Stay in Power; Kamala Harris and the U.S. state looking to take down Trump
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Another U.S. government shutdown could be coming. That's what the U.S. president is warning as his White House tries to reach a deal with Congress. Plus, fighting for control, the opposition calls for protests across Venezuela, President Nicholas Maduro tries to stay in power. Also ahead this hour, an uncertain future, we'll see how funding cuts and aid from Washington would change the lives of these Palestinian security forces. We are live from CNN world headquarters in Atlanta and we want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I am George Howell, and CNN Newsroom starts right now, 2:01 on the U.S. East Coast. Thank you for being with us. With the longest government shutdown in U.S. history barely over, the clock is now ticking and the threat is real. There could be another, yes, another government shutdown next month. In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, the U.S. President Donald Trump said he is skeptical lawmakers can reach a deal, an agreement to fund the border wall by the next funding deadline, which is February 15th. He said another shutdown is, quote, "certainly an option." Mr. Trump also saying that he would use a national emergency declaration to get funding if necessary. So the bottom line here, the president's position is unchanged. Our Boris Sanchez reports it's not clear how another stand-off would result in a different outcome.</s>BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The White House is effectively threatening a second shutdown if President Trump and his team do not the get what they want from Democrats during the ongoing negotiations over border security. Keep in mind, the continuing resolution that was passed on Friday goes through 21 days. So we may be facing a second government shutdown in three weeks if the president does not get border wall funding. His acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, made the case on one of the Sunday morning talk shows. Listen to this.</s>MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We have been working on this for months. We have been hoping for months do it through legislation with Democrats because that's the right way for the government to function. But at the end of the day, the president's commitment is to defend the nation, and he will do it either with or without Congress.</s>SANCHEZ: It was unclear exactly how the White House believes it'll be different a second time around. They don't really have the numbers when it comes to Congress. Remember that only one Democrat in the Senate voted for the White House's plan to reopen the federal government, that Joe Manchin of West Virginia. We don't know exactly where the president thinks he's going to get support, and if he has to bypass Congress, it will likely be through declaring a national emergency on the issue of immigration. That's an option that's been on the table for some time. The president has not moved in that direction in part because there is no guarantee that it would actually work. Democrats have already vowed to challenge it so it would wind up in the court system, and ultimately not give the president that immediate funding that he wants for his long-promised border wall. Boris Sanchez, CNN, at the White House.</s>HOWELL: Boris, thank you. The shutdown cost the U.S. economy more money than Mr. Trump wanted for the border wall. Take a look. According to Standard and Poor's analysis, the economy lost at least $6 billion due to lost productivity and lost economic activity through outside businesses. Meanwhile, Americans are not happy with the way the government is running. A new NBC News, Wall Street Journal poll shows 63 percent say the country is on the wrong track. Just 28 percent think things are going in the right direction. Those negative numbers are up seven points from last month. Let's talk more about all of this now with Steven Erlanger. Steven, the Chief Diplomatic Correspondent in Europe for The New York Times joining us now live from Brussels, Belgium, always a pleasure here to have you on the show, Steve.</s>STEVEN ERLANGER, NEW YORK TIMES CHIEF DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, George.</s>HOWELL: The clock is ticking. Look, less than three weeks now until we could be right back at square one with this threat of another government shutdown. And according to The Wall Street Journal, the president is skeptical that lawmakers will come up with a deal that he will sign. So do you see Democrats here having any reason to budge and give the president some of what he wants here or do they remain dug in?</s>ERLANGER: Well, I think everyone is going to remain dug in for a while. I mean three weeks in politics is a long time, right? A week in politics is a very long time. And so people are again setting out their stalls and trying to convince the public that they are right. I think the Democrats must stay firm on preventing funding for the wall. Though, I think they will give a fair amount of funding for border security, however defined, and maybe, maybe with enough flexibility to let Mr. Trump use some of it for fencing or something else. But for the moment, that's a compromise down the track.</s>HOWELL: Look. As of now, the president's chief of staff, acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney is indicating that the president is willing to let the government shut down again, a threat that has got to leave a lot of government workers incredibly uneasy, given what they have already gone through, Steven. But if this does happen again, is there a chance the president would get a different outcome, because as of right now, the math is just not there, the votes aren't there.</s>ERLANGER: I think he knows that, too. I mean somebody, I think, once defined mental difficulty as doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different outcome. And so I think the White House knows this. My guess is rather than shut the government down, which turned out to be very, very unpopular. Trump might go the national emergency route. And even if that's delayed in the courts, he can always argue to his base he did everything possible, and it's all the fault of those Democrats.</s>HOWELL: Mulvaney also indicating the president is prepared to declare a state of emergency to build this wall that he calls a crisis on the U.S. border with Mexico. It's an option though that's sure to be the thrown into the courts, Steven, Democrats indicating they, of course, will not vote for it. Given what we saw from the latest shutdown, here's the question though. Is this a possible out for the president? If he can't get it through Congress and it goes this route and it goes into the courts, can he at least say that he tried?</s>ERLANGER: I think so, very, very much so. I suspect, you know, they've been setting this up as a sort of last option. The whole idea of moving military funds, funds that have been appropriated for the military to border security is already problematic and is likely to be challenged in the courts. Also, it's very odd to declare an emergency that doesn't seem to be an emergency. I mean it's been going on now for years, let alone months, let alone weeks. And an emergency normally is like a hurricane or an attack, or something crucial that happens in a short period of time. So I think it's a hard argument for him to make. But it is also an argument that he can make to his base, particularly who are very angry with him backing down on his wall promise. People like Ann Coulter and others that he's tried his best in a system that needs to be changed. And the Democrats and the press are making it all impossible. And, you know, he is standing by his principles that he'll do everything he can. I mean I can see Trump arguing that fairly effectively.</s>HOWELL: All right. And Steven, finally the question as to whether the president will be invited to give his state of the union address. Do you feel the speaker of the house is under pressure to now grant that invitation, or does that also continue to be held up here given all the uncertainty?</s>ERLANGER: Well, that's a good question. I mean I am not sure. My guess is it would be a very good gesture. This is my personal view, if Nancy Pelosi would let this happen in this three-week period. I mean it is the tradition, and it seems at this point the wrong weapon to hold over the president's head. But again, she may have a very different calculus and she's the one in charge.</s>HOWELL: Steven Erlanger with perspective joining us from Brussels, Belgium. Steven, again thank you so much for the time. We'll stay in touch with you.</s>ERLANGER: Thanks, George.</s>HOWELL: All right, now to Venezuela. The sitting President of that nation, Nicholas Maduro, facing growing pressure from his opposition to give up power, his rival Juan Guaido telling the Washington Post the opposition is in secret talks about the military and government officials about ousting Mr. Maduro. Guaido later called for a new protest against the government. Listen.</s>JUAN GUAIDO, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION LEADER: We have events this week on Wednesday and on Saturday. We have been asked why not everyday. We are in the process in Venezuela where we also have to fight to eat. We have to fight to survive. And we are aware that we can't do this without freedom.</s>HOWELL: In a wide-ranging interview with CNN, President Maduro accused Guaido of violating the constitution and said the U.S. is behind a coup to drive him out in. In the meantime, the U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton reiterated America's support for Guaido. He tweeted any violence on the opposition would be met with a significant response. Venezuela's dueling leaders are competing for the support of the military, both men made public appeals to combat forces, urging them to support their side. Stefano Pozzebon has more now on the power struggle in Caracas.</s>STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: Yes, tension remains high here in Caracas. On Sunday, both Nicholas Maduro, the embattled Venezuelan President and Juan Guaido, the President of the Venezuelan parliament who swore himself in as Acting President of Venezuela in order to call for a fresh, free, and fair elections. They both pitched to the same audience, to the military, who increasingly looks like the sole arbiter of the power tussle that is happening here in Caracas. And while Nicolas Maduro demanded loyalty from his troops, Juan Guaido promised amnesty and pardon for those troops who would defect effectively Nicolas Maduro's rule and switch side to the opposition. And Guaido also called for new street protests next week, next Wednesday, and the following Saturday, giving a sign of pressure on the Maduro government to join the negotiating table is only going to increase. For CNN, this is Stefano Pozzebon, Caracas.</s>HOWELL: Let's talk more about the power struggle playing out in Venezuela with Jennifer McCoy. Jennifer is a distinguished professor of political science at Georgia State University joining this hour from Budapest, Hungary, Jennifer, thank you tor you your time today.</s>JENNIFER MCCOY, GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE: Thank you.</s>HOWELL: So given where things stand right now, who would you say has more leverage inside Venezuela, the sitting president, Nicholas Maduro who is demanding loyalty or the self-declared opposition leader Juan Guaido, who again, we just heard is offering amnesty and pardons.</s>MCCOY: Well, it's definitely a stand-off. Maduro still has all the reins of power, and including importantly the firearms, the military behind him. And -- but Guaido has legitimacy internally by being freely-elected, both as a deputy in his Congress and then as head of his Congress, and now international legitimacy with the popular support. So it's sort of, you know, guns versus people in a sense. But I think it's still a stand-off. It's hard to tell yet where exactly this is going to go.</s>HOWELL: Well, it all comes down to who has the support of the military. That is the common denominator here. And the opposition looking for cracks in the foundation to see if they can peel off any support and oust Maduro, what are the factors, though, do you surmise that would motivate military officials to reconsider their position?</s>MCCOY: I think if they see that -- the -- both the popular support in Venezuela continues to tilt away from Maduro and toward Guaido, that that is a crucial factor. But also the international pressure, the growing financial pressure, and the legitimacy as the financial screws continue to turn as countries like the United States, and England, and others find ways to restrict Venezuela's revenues if they are able to find those ways. Then that has to affect the military. And then again, it's its own rank and file. As its own rank and file grows increasingly desperate in terms of their own living situation that makes it difficult for them to care out any orders to repress the people or any other orders from the government.</s>HOWELL: To that point, the Venezuelan economy -- look, it has been in a state of crisis for sometime now. And now reacting to outside pressures from various nations, these nations are picking a side, right? So you have Russia and China on one side, for instance, backing Maduro. You have the United States, the E.U., and many Latin- American countries supporting Guaido. Again, the question of leverage to you, Jennifer, which side carries more leverage, more weight in what happens inside that country.</s>MCCOY: I think it's really a shame that internationally it is coming to a division like this when we should be looking at the plight of the Venezuelans in such a desperate situation. But at this point, I think what's really called for are negotiations. There simply have to be talks. And one of the things -- going back to your question of internal is this offer of -- you just covered about the amnesty toward the military. If that can be made clear, if the military and others in the government can be reassured about exactly what that means, that may help tilt the scene as well. And that has to do with the international side as well. There is international human rights law that does require punishment for crimes against humanity. And there have been allegations that the government has committed that with the harsh repression. So there may be fear about international indictments in international criminal court, as well as of course, the U.S. has indicted some high- ranking officials within Venezuela.</s>HOWELL: And, you know, the other question that many people look to Venezuela. They wonder the questions of how long this country has seen economic turmoil. Is there a sense that with fresh leadership that the country could, in fact, turn a corner?</s>MCCOY: Certainly, they can turn a corner, changing policies and then receiving international aid and loans more than they have to date. Obviously, they have been helped tremendously by China and Russia. But I think that China and Russia themselves are concerned about their own investments in the country given the precarious nature of it. But it will take a very long time to recover the oil industry and the rest of the economy that has been depleted -- and productivity has just investment and productivity has just anticipated. So it will take quite a while to recover. But, yes, it certainly is possible.</s>HOWELL: Jennifer McCoy giving us perspective from Budapest this hour. Again, thank you again, Jennifer. We'll keep in touch with you.</s>MCCOY: Thank you.</s>HOWELL: Newsroom pushes on here. Catholics from all across the world came together in Panama this weekend, and they heard Pope Francis speak his mind about some troubling world issues. We'll have the details ahead. Stay with us.