Shooting in Tucson, AZ: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Among Those Shot
SAVIDGE: Martin Savidge here at CNN Center in Atlanta. We're following breaking news a story out of Tucson, Arizona, at this hour. Several people have been shot we're told by the Pima County Sheriff's Department there could be at least 12 people that have been injured. And a Democratic source has told CNN's Dana Bash that the U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords is among the victims. This is a shooting that took place around 10:00 a.m. local time in Tucson, Arizona at a Safeway grocery store. This was an event that Representative Gabrielle Giffords was routinely going to hold, it was her first Congress on the corner. This is her chance to speak with constituents and this had been planned for some time and reportedly gunfire erupted. Jason Pekau is joining us on the telephone. He is an eyewitness. Well, he heard the shots fire and then came out and saw eyewitness to the aftermath. Jason, I know you've been asked this before, but I'm going to ask you again, tell us initially what you heard and then what you saw.</s>PEKAU: Yes. First I had heard at least 15 to 20 gunshots happen, all randomly. There were no breaks in between. Multiple people running from the scene screaming that Gabrielle Giffords had been shot. Then about two minutes later multiple authorities showed up, fire trucks, police, helicopters, everything and then unconfirmed from a source, the Tucson Police Department had told me that six dead 15 wounded possibly. I can actually see from where I'm standing at least 2 possibly 3 bodies lying on the sidewalk with sheets over them.</s>SAVIDGE: All right. Jason is on the scene, he is an eyewitness. He is reporting that he has heard as many as perhaps six killed. We cannot confirm that. We have not any official confirmation but of course Jason is actually seeing something. I'm just reminding our viewers Jason as to what the circumstances is with you. Please hold on the line for a moment. I want to bring in John King because Congresswoman Giffords was and has been interviewed by John King a number of times. John, I'm just wondering your thoughts here as you hear this obviously horrendous news.</s>JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Marty, it is horrendous news. As you well know often the information you get from the scene and you have an excellent witness on the scene there often you get conflicting information and things change as the authorities learn more later. But we do know that she was among those who are there and we have at least one source saying she is among those who was shot. So as we wait to find out exactly what happens, as you were talking with Dana earlier, I was there in 2006 when she was first elected to Congress, it is a very competitive district. Gabby Giffords is what they call her in the district. She is very personable, very outgoing. She is among the members of Congress, members of Congress who continues to do these small town hall style events. If you remember the health care debate a couple of years ago a lot of members of Congress stopped doing the events in informal ways, they became much more structured. But she doesn't believe that is the way to go about her business and she likes interacting with her constituents. It's a very tough district. I was there in 2006 and back in that district again in 2008. I've spoken to her several times in the last few years because Arizona is on the cutting edge of so many over our most volatile political debates right now. The state's own immigration law was a huge issue, all the candidates whether they were running for state office or federal office got caught up in the Arizona immigration law debate, the border security debate has been huge there. She of course has also been right in the middle among the Democrats in the big health care debate. So a tough -- she was surprised in some ways to survive this year's political climate. She had a very tough race. Being back and in touch with her constituents is part of her way in these -- whether Democrats or Republicans in these tough swing districts this is how they keep their job, Marty. They go home and they get involved in the give and take with their constituents even though often these events are feisty and this one apparently today has taken just a horrendous turn.</s>SAVIDGE: It is going to be wondered by many as to whether any of the controversy that has been coming out of the state of Arizona, immigration being just one aspect, if in any way it played into this. We don't know the circumstances or the motivations by who may have been the shooter here. But that certainly is going to be on the minds of members of Congress, John.</s>KING: It will be on the minds of members of Congress and of course will be the initial questions asked by law enforcement when they try to get into the motives. But we do need to be careful. We know that Arizona has been a big part of our national debate on many, many issues. We do need to be very careful obviously for someone to take whatever complaint or grievance they had against her to this level, we need to be very careful in connecting any dots right now. But it is one of the most competitive congressional districts in the country. She just survived a very, very tough campaign and it is an odd thing to say at this moment it is to her credit that in the first break of the new Congress on the first Saturday morning she was out to talk to her constituents.</s>SAVIDGE: All right. John, hold on. Mike Brooks I want to bring you into the conversation. You've got information for us. Go ahead.</s>MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via telephone): Hey, Marty. I'm hearing from my federal law enforcement sources that apparently yes that the information we're reporting, we're hearing also from people at the scene that she was shot in the head. Also apparently one of her staffers was also shot. Do not know the condition of that particular staffer. But law enforcement right now still does not know a motive. We are hearing, though, also that the shooter is in custody. We don't have any identification on the shooter again these are initial reports right now from the scene, Marty. I was also talking to law enforcement sources in Washington. There were no threats that they had gotten in reference to Congresswoman Giffords, any threats against her life that they know of. They're looking into that right now because, as you know, U.S. Capitol Police provide protection for members of Congress. If that had been the case, there would have been members of the U.S. Capitol Police for her protection on the scene with her. But right now it's very, very early in the investigation and we're going to try to find out the identity of this perpetrator who they say is in custody -- Marty.</s>SAVIDGE: Mike, you're saying that even when they go home to their constituents they would have the same security force they would have around them in Washington?</s>BROOKS: They would make a threat assessment. Let's say they got a number of letters, somebody coming to one of her offices there in Arizona. If they thought there was going to be a credible threat they would provide a protection detail. Usually not, but it's up to the dignitary protection division of the U.S. Capitol Police that would make that call. But what I'm hearing from sources is that there was no threat against her that would merit a protection detail.</s>SAVIDGE: All right, well, again, you're confirming to us that you're saying you're hearing from authorities there that the suspect or shooter has been apparently taken into custody. Is that right, Mike?</s>BROOKS: That's correct. That's what I'm hearing from law enforcement sources close to the investigation.</s>SAVIDGE: And that would seem to be reflected by what our eyewitness on the scene, Jason Pekau -- I know he was describing what they were searching through vehicles. It didn't sound like the frantic concern there was still a gunman on the loose. Jason, you still with us?</s>PEKAU: Yes.</s>SAVIDGE: What is happening now? I've seen your photographs that are coming in. Thank you. We're seeing that clearly the parking lot has been marked of and I presume we're seeing also the early stages of an investigation here. Correct?</s>PEKAU: Yes, that's correct.</s>SAVIDGE: And the attitude of people around there. Can you tell? What are people saying? What are people doing?</s>PEKAU: From what I can tell, multiple people I've talked to in the area, they are obviously somber. A lot of them have known her for a long time, distraught. A lot of the law enforcement officers seem to be kind of walking around feeling a little down about it. It's pretty traumatizing to everybody here.</s>SAVIDGE: Did you know this event was taking place today? Was it widely publicized? Did you have any idea the congresswoman was going to be present?</s>PEKAU: Yes, as a matter of fact I did. We were told in the actual shopping center here it was going to be happening today and I saw it on her web site.</s>SAVIDGE: Dana Bash, I want to bring you back because you were actually spoke to the congresswoman this week, of course. Congress was sworn in. It was a big day. She was held office for a while but she's still young and still relatively new and she's probably still very optimistic. Dana, tell us about when you spoke to her last. Obviously Dana Bash is not still with us. We'll try to reconnect with her. She was discussing how she was actually speaking in the halls of Congress with Representative Gabrielle Giffords. Let me remind our views that we are talking about a shooting that has taken place, breaking news out of Tucson, Arizona, this hour. Several people perhaps a dozen or more have been shot at a Safeway grocery store, including a U.S. congresswoman. According to the public information officer at the Pima County sheriff's department, 12 people were injured. There are unconfirmed reports that there are fatalities. That is coming from eyewitnesses on the scene. Democratic sources told CNN's Dana Bash that U.S. representative Gabrielle Giffords is among the victims. Dana, I know you're back with us. You actually spoke to the congresswoman this week, correct?</s>BASH: Just yesterday, Marty. You know, it was the first week back, the first week the new congress. Lots of buzzing in the hallways. I just happened to bump into her coming off of the house floor, really this time yesterday. She just stopped to chat, to talk about how the break was and she really seemed as though she was re- energized. As we've been mentioning over the past several minutes, she's always somebody who is in a very tough reelection battle. She is a moderate Democrat in a pretty conservative Arizona district, and it's never easy for her. She had just won her third term in Congress, and she was telling me about a wonderful trip that she and her family took. She actually it took her parents to Rome on a last-minute trip. They were able to get into the Vatican for midnight mass. She was just talking about how wonderful that was, and she was also making clear she was looking forward to going back to her home district as most of the members of Congress do for the weekends, long weekends, to reconnect with her constituents. That's where she was as she was heading. I just wanted to mention one thing. You were talking to our eyewitness and others about whether people knew that she was having this event. Obviously that was kind of the whole point. She wanted her constituents to come out and have conversations with her about what their concerns are. Again, that's one of the basic tenants and pillars of democracy and many of these members of Congress take it very seriously. Lisa Desjardin, Our CNN radio correspondent just e-mailed the tweet from Giffords' office right before this advertising this event. She said, quote, "My first Congress on your corner start now. Please stop by to let me know what is on your mind or tweet me later." So it's absolutely public. And as Mike Brooks was saying and you and I were talking about earlier, for most of the members of Congress, they walk around like you and I do. It is only if there is a specific threat that capitol police and other security officials know about that they get the extra protection. I will mention one other thing on that note. You remember last year during the health care debate, there was some violence and many Democrats had their offices vandalized by people who were pretty angry about the health care situation. She was one of them. She had her district office in Arizona vandalized.</s>SAVIDGE: All right, just a moment here, Dana, if you would. We want to recap as to what we have been revealing to you. There has been a shooting that has taken place at a grocery store in Tucson, Arizona. A dozen people according to the public information officer with the sheriff's office out there in Pima County, says they have been injured. We have unconfirmed report that there are fatalities. We also know that among those reportedly who have been wounded is Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords of the eighth congressional district. Mike, back to you. Dana brought up a good point. We know that the emotional issues and issues in Congress have been ratcheting up with, well, emotion. I'm wondering if this has triggered concerns within the security community as to members of Congress and how they would be protected and whether them meeting with their constituents goes back to the very beginning, something that has to be looked at once again.</s>BROOKS: Well, it's always a concern, Marty. And you know it's looked at and any threats, any communication of any veiled threats are taken very seriously, looked at by a threat assessment group with the U.S. Capitol Police, also with the FBI because we do have Capitol police people in the FBI task force that I used to be in in Washington. So these are all taken a look at, and they make an assessment of the credibility of that threat, if it's serious or not.</s>SAVIDGE: All right. I want to go back to Jason Pekau because he's our eyes on the scene. Jason, you're still there?</s>PEKAU: Yes.</s>SAVIDGE: So what is being done as far as you said you saw those bodies in the parking lot? How is that being handled?</s>PEKAU: Right just about three minutes ago as you guys were talking they had a photographer out there actually uncovered one of the bodies. I can see one where I'm standing now. They still have about three or four sheriffs standing at that particular crime scene kind of standing guard at it at the moment.</s>SAVIDGE: Jason Pekau is eyewitness, actually an ear-witness to the shots fired this morning at this Safeway grocery store in Tucson, Arizona. He's been recounting over the telephone as to what he saw and what immediately came thereafter. And just so our viewers understand, you say that you heard 15 to 20 shots that were fired this morning and then came out to an obvious scene of chaos.</s>PEKAU: Yes. It was continuous shooting. There was no break in between. They walked up and I'm assuming just kept firing. It sounded like tons of pots and pans falling down on the ground right next to my ear. It was so loud.</s>SAVIDGE: And then clearly people would have been shot, terrified, running away from the scene. When did the first law enforcement get there?</s>PEKAU: I was standing outside when they arrived. It felt like forever but probably a minute and a half to two minutes after it happened.</s>SAVIDGE: Did you know if there was any law enforcement on the scene at the time? In other words, somebody acting as security.</s>PEKAU: From what I can see and I actually asked that question to some of the people that were standing over there, they did not see any law enforcement next to her or around her or in the parking lot.</s>SAVIDGE: Mike Brooks is reporting to us through his sources that he has heard the suspect may have been taken into custody. I'm just wondering now hearing that whether there was something you saw that might reflect in your memory, oh, yes, maybe they were taking that person away. Anything like that? Jason?</s>PEKAU: Yes?</s>SAVIDGE: I was asking, did you see anything that looked like a person being taken into custody?</s>PEKAU: No, I actually have not seen anything like that.</s>SAVIDGE: OK. Ed Henry is joining us on the telephone line, I believe. Ed? Are you there?</s>ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Marty, I'm here.</s>SAVIDGE: What have you got?</s>HENRY: I want to be careful to say that the White House has not put out any sort of official statement. They're being very careful in releasing information as should be in this case. But I've spoken to other administration officials who are saying that the White House is monitoring this very closely, trying to get as much as they can. The preliminary reports they have were that the congresswoman was shot but that she was responsive at first. But I literally just heard from an administration official saying that they are hearing very bad reports from the scene about the congresswoman's position and also that a congressional staffer as I think Dana has been reported was shot and possibly, I stress possibly, has died. And this is why the administration is going through this very, very carefully to get as much information as they can so they're not dealing with speculation. They're dealing with what exactly they can find out. But I can tell you from several different people throughout the Obama administration I've been speaking to at various layers, they are in complete shock and trying to jump on this as quickly as possible to get, first of all, some sort of sense of the congresswoman's condition, her staff's condition, the other people who may have been just innocent people and connected to the congresswoman and figure out their condition, but also obviously get a handle on the law enforcement situation to see what exactly is behind this, Marty.</s>HENRY: Right. And you point out, just because we are focusing in our conversation on the congresswoman, that is in no way to say we are not concerned -- we are gravely concerned about others who could have been wounded or possibly even killed in the shooting that has taken place at a grocery store, Safeway, in Tucson. That happened about 10:00 local time. We understand that perhaps a dozen people or more have been shot. Your account at least coming through the White House as to the condition of the congresswoman as she was taken away matches that with our eyewitness who is on the scene, Jason Pekau, because he said when he saw the congresswoman I believe being transported to a life flight helicopter it appeared that she was moving, at least in some way.</s>HENRY: Right.</s>SAVIDGE: We'll take that, even as small as it is, as some sort of optimistic sign. Exactly, are the resources or the White House, are they just monitoring? Any action they can take?</s>HENRY: It's a good question. To be honest with you, all I know they're go 'doing right now is monitoring because they're doing what we're doing, trying to find out the best information they can to get on top of the situation. So I would not expect them to be deploying something specifically right now in terms of resources until they fully understand the situation. Obviously you can expect that all different layers from the department of Homeland Security, Justice Department, in addition to the White House are going to be looking at anything they can do to help obviously. But it certainly in the situation stages seems like a local law enforcement matter and I'm certain the White House won't interfere in that. I just want to caution that the White House has not put out any official statement and is not itself speculating on anyone's condition. They are being extremely careful. But I've been speaking to other people in the administration who are getting similar reports as we are in terms of the congresswoman and whatnot. And like I said, the initial reports that folks I spoke to in the administration suggested that while the congresswoman had been shot that she was responsive on the scene. But then literally just before you came to me, I spoke to another person in the administration who said that they were suddenly getting information that it was getting or more grim about the congresswoman's condition. They did not want to speculate because they want to find out exactly what the truth is on the ground before anybody gets ahead of that.</s>SAVIDGE: As it should be. Ed Henry joining us on the telephone. Kate Bolduan is in our D.C. bureau. She, too, like the rest of the team has been following developments there. Kate what are you hearing?</s>KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm getting this from CNN producer Carol Kratty (ph). She's getting information from FBI. FBI spokesman Manuel Johnson saying that FBI agents have gone to the scene there in Tucson, Arizona, but they didn't have any information to provide beyond that in these early stages. Just a point of caution, when you hear the FBI is going to the scene, Marty, as you well know, the FBI will go to the scene to assist and try to help in the event of some big shooting, for lack of a better term, or if there is a big event whether or not there would be an elected official there. But we are told from an FBI spokesman that FBI agents have gone to the scene and they are there assisting. Of course, obviously we're looking for more information. I'll tell you early on when we started getting these reports Marty, and you were on air I was reaching out to the congresswoman's office. I spoke to a spokesman for her office who was actually not in Tucson at the time, was in the car. I think I was even on speaker phone. She was in a car headed to the scene. It seems that this person was very focused, very serious, and did not have any information to provide at the moment.</s>SAVIDGE: Kate, let me interrupt you for a second, because I think we want to go to one of our affiliates that has some information, at least eyewitness looking at the suspect. We have this now?</s>JESSICA CHAFFIN, KGUN REPORTER: My photographer and I were actually headed up to cover the opening of a fire station up here when we saw just several sheriffs' officers switch on her lights and rush to this intersection. We turned around to see what had happened. In minutes they had the entire intersection closed of about a block on each side and they did that so that they could land three life-evac helicopters in the middle of that intersection. We saw all of that happen. There were about ten ambulances here. There were those three choppers. They loaded people into them as soon as they could and got those 12 injured victims off and to the hospital. We are told that Gabrielle Giffords was one of those injured. Still no update on her status or anyone else's status as of now, but definitely still a very busy scene. We have about eight fire trucks on scene. We still have a couple of ambulances and definitely it's swarming with sheriff's officers, medical personnel, several people on scene still questioning. They went around and they did search all the cars. The officers were making sure there were no other shooters involved. We are told from the bureau chief of Pima County sheriff's office Richard Castagar (ph) there was one shooter. He is now in custody uninjured. And they were searching to see if anybody else may have been involve. Again, we are not sure yet if they have reason to believe that somebody else is out there.</s>SAVIDGE: All right, you've been listening to a reporter for KGUN out there in Tucson, Arizona. She was describing aloft the information that we had brought to you earlier. A suspect is now in custody, and those that have been injured, the life flight helicopters have been brought in. Again, recapping for you, a dozen people or more have been shot and there are unconfirmed reports of a number of people killed. Among those that may have been wounded in this attack is Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. Eyewitnesses say that is so and she has been transported to the helicopter, that she was responsive at the time. However, doubly troubling is the account by eyewitnesses that say she was shot at very close range and perhaps more than once and that could be true of other victims. We're going to take a break. We'll be back with more in a moment.