Supreme Court Upholds Healthcare Law
OBRIEN: Keeping Them Honest now on how each side is spinning the Supreme Court's epic decision on health care reform. Safe to say the White House is delighted that chief justice Roberts saved the law. As for how he saved it, well, not so much. He said making people buy health insurance was no good under Congress' power to regulate commerce but just fine under the power to tax. So victory goes to the White House. But then again so does this.</s>SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: This law is a tax.</s>REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: Obama care is the biggest tax increase in American history.</s>REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The government could decide that we're going to tax you if you don't eat broccoli on Tuesday.</s>REP. CATHY MCMORRIS RODGERS (R), WASHINGTON: In fact, the affordable care act is a tax. It is the largest tax in America's history.</s>SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: The middle class tax increase.</s>GOV. BOB MCDONNELL (R), VIRGINIA: The largest tax increases on the middle class in history.</s>MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Obama care raises taxes on the American people.</s>OBRIEN: Keeping Them Honest, when Republicans say it's a tax to make people pay for going uninsured, they're absolutely right. The provisions are written into the tax code. They're enforced by the IRS. As chief justice Roberts wrote in his opinion, the only effect of the individual mandate is to raise taxes on those who do not do so, and thus the law may be upheld as a tax. However, to call it as you just heard the biggest tax increase in history is wrong. It's not even close. Well, the fact judging that claim pants on fire false. That said, any mention of taxes in connection with the health care law is poison to the administration and the campaign. Listen to Obama 2012 Spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter this morning on "STARTING POINT.</s>STEPHANIE CUTTER, OBAMA DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER: What John Roberts said is that we have the power to impose this penalty on people through the taxation clause. It's a penalty.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a penalty?</s>CUTTER: It's a penalty.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But yesterday we learn it was a tax.</s>CUTTER: Right. Let me finish. So I'm assuming everybody at this table has private insurance. So this penalty does not apply to us. There are some people who are choosing not to get insurance because they can't afford it. For those people, what we call free riders, what Mitt Romney has called free riders. We pay their health care costs up to $1,000 on our premiums. So they need to take individual responsibility for their health care and pay a penalty if they choose not to get it.</s>WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I understand also that you like the law well. But I'm still thoroughly confused. Now is your position it's a tax or a penalty?</s>CUTTER: It's a penalty. That if you choose not to get health care and you're imposing a hidden tax on all of us because we pay for your health care, then you'll pay a penalty.</s>OBRIEN: So, if that sounds familiar, it's because that's what her old boss was saying, somewhat more concisely, back when he was selling the health care law.</s>BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For us to say that you've got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it's saying is we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you. Anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America just about has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase.</s>OBRIEN: So, the song remains the same. However, also Keeping Them Honest, Mitt Romney was singing that exact same tune when he was selling his own nearly identical health care plan back when he was governor of Massachusetts. He's singing a different tune today. So, with us tonight, Democratic strategist Paul Begala, who's advising the top pro-Obama super PAC. Also chief political correspondent Candy Crowley. Paul, we'll start with you. You heard what Stephanie Cutter had to say. Do you think the Obama campaign is between kind of a rock and a hard place on this? Is it a tax? Is it a penalty? The Supreme Court just said it's a tax. She's saying no, it's a penalty. Is that a problem?</s>PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, usually, for generations, Democrats have talked about health care in terms of empathy. Care about our neighbors. That's great. That gets fellow bleeding hearts like me. Van Holland and Stephanie Cutter from the Obama campaign are now appealing to people who are frankly, a little more self-interested. Saying you're paying a tax already. And it's free riders, free loaders tax. These are very morally freighted terms. Democrats usually don't use that kind of language. I'm happy to hear them say no, it's a tax that only free loaders have to pay. It's a penalty that only free riders have to pay. I actually like that messaging. I think it's more successful for Democrats.</s>OBRIEN: Candy, how much do you think Mitt Romney's own record could hinder Republican's efforts to attack this? I mean, you know, the affordable care act obviously is modeled on what he did in Massachusetts, right?</s>CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It matters because it comes up every time Mitt Romney says it. You get just another e- mail blast from either the DNC or some form of democratic outfit. And when you have somebody on a show, the first thing they're going to say to you, well, Mitt Romney had the exact same plan and he didn't say it was a tax. I actually like the Nancy Pelosi approach wasn't calling it whatever you want to call it. It's constitutional. I think this is -- they're dancing on the head of a pin here, the Democrats. I think they ought to get off it and go find it's a tax it it's a tax on people who won't buy their own health care insurance and, like, be done with it.</s>OBRIEN: So Paul, when you look at the folk, moving from dancing on the head of the pin to seeing how people in the electorate might feel about it there are now poll results out about yesterday's ruling. And threes USA Gallup poll, country seems to be evenly divided. Forty six percent of the people agree with the ruling, 46 percent of the people disagree with the ruling. But if you're look more specifically at independents, 49 percent. And they're the important independents, 49 percent say they want to repeal all or parts of the bill, 40 percent say they want to keep it or expand the law. How much of a problem is that for President Obama?</s>BEGALA: It's a real problem, Soledad. It's why you're wise to break out the independents. If you just look and it's divided, it's because Democrats like me, love, love, love it. It didn't matter, I'm not a swing-voter, right? People in the middle, they've got -- this is why it's smart they're recalibrating their message, talking about free loaders and free riders. That's more for independents. Rather than talking as all of us have done for generation about people who don't have health insurance. And you should help them. That's not a very good message in a recession. Now they're saying you should punish them. And that's a tougher, stronger message. And it may have more appeal for the independents.</s>OBRIEN: Candy, when you look at the money, Mitt Romney's done very well. Right up to the ruling. He's raised more than $5.5 million, 55,000 separate donations. But there's some people who say, you know, all this money could worry him off the message that seem to be working or maybe his strongest message, which was the economy and the struggling economy. Do you think those people have a point?</s>CROWLEY: They're not mutually exclusive. And I don't think actually that's what Romney has been doing. He had his initial reaction to it and what happened in the initial reaction was he talked about how much health insurance had gone up. He talked about what it would do to the debt. I mean, you could argue -- I know Paul would, with his facts and figures. But nonetheless, he tied it to the economy. And he said, it's small businesses aren't hiring people because this is going to cost them too much. So he took it and translated into his central message. And I think, look, he has to -- depending on his crowd, he has to say, and I'm going to appeal Obama care because that really is a vote getter out of it. The conservative part is the Republican party that still has its doubt Mitt Romney. They have no doubts about Obama care. So that could get them to the poll. Get them more enthused. And so, that's always going to come up. But I think he's going to use this as a way to pivot to the economy. And say, here's what help Obama care is to the economy.</s>OBRIEN: Paul, there was one Republican who referred to this decision as the kiss of death for Democrats. Let's talk a little bit politically, like, how it plays out. Does it repeat 2010 midterms where the tea party rode to power on this sort of anti-Obama, anti-health care fervor this time around? Or as the Democrats are spinning it, it's been decided, everybody, time to move on?</s>BEGALA: It certainly motivated their base. And they do need that because Mr. Romney, as Candy points out, from not a favor of their base. I remember in the primaries, Rick Santorum said, Listen, he was right. I very rarely say Rick was right. But Senator Santorum was right about this. He said because Mitt Romney signed Romney care which is the template, the blueprint, particularly with the individual mandate. He's going to have a difficult time advancing the argument that Obama care should be repealed. And that's why I think he was right that he's he must get back to the economy or he is going to win or lose anyway on this. It will reenergize the Republican base. It is absolutely true. But it also energizes the Democratic base. And the question is who can get to those independents. And that is going to turning on who's better on the economy.</s>OBRIEN: Kind of a $64,000 question. All right, Paul Begala, Candy Crowley, thanks guys, appreciate it.</s>CROWLEY: Sure.</s>BEGALA: Thanks, Soledad.</s>OBRIEN: Fleeing Colorado's deadly fire up close. We are going to talk to a woman who shot a gripping emotional video of her own evacuation. It was the last time she saw her home. That's coming up next.