Gut-Wrenching Testimony in Aurora Theater Shooting Trial
BALDWIN: Back with our breaking news, the threat of ISIS and the growing number of jihadis in this country putting all U.S. military bases on heightened alert. The threat level now with all of these military installations is now at Bravo, which means at this moment there's a, quote, "increased and predictable threat of terrorism." Joining me now, Gideon Rose, editor of Foreign Affairs and member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He's also written a new foreign policy e-book entitled "The ISIS Crisis." Gideon, welcome back.</s>GIDEON ROSE, EDITOR, FOREIGN AFFAIRS & MEMBER, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good to be here.</s>BALDWIN: Here's my question. This hasn't happened, just context wise, since the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. So what do you think, you know, law enforcement are picking up? We know it's not a specific threat.</s>ROSE: Well, look, what you have is a situation in which there aren't -- ISIS doesn't have operatives here the way al Qaeda guys sent to blow up the twin towers were. What they have is a pool of disaffected, radicalized allies who might be motivated to do some freelance attacks themselves. And that, I guess, is what's worrying. Like what you saw with the recent attacks in Texas where people drove there, tried to make some trouble, and got shot down in the process.</s>BALDWIN: Why -- on the notion -- why target the military? I was watching some of our coverage earlier. One of my colleagues here was pointing out back when James Foley was executed, he referenced his brother, and he said this, I died when your colleagues dropped that bomb on those people, they signed my death certificate. He was sort of saying, it's a soldier for a soldier. Do you think that could be part of the motivation here?</s>ROSE: It's an interesting question. Actually, I think it's a good thing they're targeting soldiers and military officials as opposed to civilians. After all, the definition of terrorism is not just about the non-state actor of the terrorist but who the target is. It's an interesting question. If we're in a war against ISIS and ISIS is attacking U.S. Soldiers, even if they're noncombatants, it's an interesting question whether it's terrorism, but it's certainly better they're going after armed officials who can shoot back than --</s>BALDWIN: Still, it's not a good thing.</s>ROSE: -- than the local people. It's a better thing than it would be them going after soft targets like a local McDonald's or a movie theater.</s>BALDWIN:  OK -- ROSE: The point being that, look, we have -- I'm not saying it's a good thing they're attacking soldiers. My point is that soldiers know how to defend themselves. Our military has strong security procedures in place. I think that this is not a sort of call for the entire United States to be in an uproar and scared to walk out the door or travel to the subway. I don't think we're in danger of an imminent large-scale terrorist attack.</s>BALDWIN: OK. I referenced your e-book a second ago. I know something you included there on ISIS strategy is the tactics that Washington has used to combat ISIS, mirror those that was used against al Qaeda, but they will not yield the same results in this new age of modern terror, where these ISIS attacks, unlike al Qaeda, they seem to be smaller, more intimate. How has counter-terrorism strategies -- have they even caught up with that?</s>ROSE: It's actually very interesting. Because ISIS, unlike al Qaeda, is trying to build an actual Islamic State on the ground in Syria and Iraq in the region, and that's where its real power base is. They're also trying to pick up affiliates elsewhere allied with their brand. Their primary focus has not been attacks against American targets, certainly in the United States or even in the region. It's been gaining ground in Syria and Iraq in their territory and holding it and building a state there. So to extent that they're moving more towards what al Qaeda used to do, which is try to generate spontaneous attacks all around the world, that would be something of a change in strategy. But I think their prime focus really is more about building something that's on the ground and durable in the region than it is attacking the United States or the far enemy over here.</s>BALDWIN: OK. Gideon Rose, thank you. Hope it stays that way. For nine days now, Colorado has been reliving the heartbreak of 2012's Aurora theater shooting. So far, more than 20 survivors of that massacre have testified in the murder trial of James Holmes. Holmes is charged with killing 12 people and injuring 70 others during a midnight showing of the Batman thriller, "The Dark Knight Rises." He has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. Testimony has been extraordinarily emotional. Late yesterday, the jury heard just gut-wrenching details from Amanda Teves. Her fiance, Alex, died while shielding her from the bullets that sprayed that entire movie theater. I want to play some of this for you. There are cameras in this courtroom, but some of the audio, it's pretty disturbing to listen to.</s>AMANDA TEVES, FIANCE MURDERED: At first, I didn't know what was going on, but Alex did. And he put his arm around me and pulled me down to the ground.</s>UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: What happened when you got down on the ground?</s>TEVES: I was just really confused. I kept asking what was happening and Alex just kept shushing me and saying it was going to be OK. Until I heard someone yelling that they'd been hit.</s>UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: What do you remember after you heard that?</s>TEVES: I thought it was Craig. I thought that was Alex saying that Craig had been hurt. And then I looked down at the ground at my hands, and I realized they were just in a pool of blood. I yelled for Alex, and I started shaking his tummy, but he wasn't answering me. I just kept shaking him and calling his name, but he wasn't answering me. So I looked at Craig, and I knew something was really wrong when I looked at Craig.</s>UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Why did you know something was really wrong when you looked at Craig?</s>TEVES: Because his face was -- it was covered in blood, and I could tell that Alex had been hit in the head because of what else was on his face.</s>UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: And what else was on Craig's face?</s>TEVES: The flesh of Alex. I don't know how else --</s>UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: So after you see Craig and you see that, what do you do?</s>TEVES: I didn't want to leave. Craig was reaching his hand out to me and telling me to go and that people behind me were telling me to go, too, and I didn't -- I didn't want to leave him there.