Interview With Congressman Ted Lieu; Russia Retaliates; CNN: Mueller Pushed for Trump Campaign Deputy's Help in Probe of Possible Collusion with Russia
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: This as a lawyer allied with the Trump team is making new claims that could potentially hurt the president's own case. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in</s>THE SITUATION ROOM. ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.</s>BLITZER: We have breaking news this hour on the special counsel's investigation of possible collusion between the Trump camp and Russia. We're getting new information on the role of a key witness who's now cooperating with Robert Mueller's team. That would be the former Trump campaign deputy Rick Gates. I will get reaction from the House Judiciary Committee member Congressman Ted Lieu. And our correspondents and analysts, they are all standing by. Let's go to CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez and our political correspondent Sara Murray. Evan, what are you learning about Rick Gates and what Mueller wants from him?</s>EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this came between discussions of Rick Gates and special prosecutor -- special counsel Robert Mueller. And this is months before Rick Gates pleaded guilty to charges in the special counsel's investigation. According to sources who talked to Kaitlan Collins, a court writer, Mueller told Gates that he had plenty of evidence against Paul Manafort. Of course, Paul Manafort was the former campaign chairman of the Trump campaign and as well as Gates' former business partner. He said he had plenty of evidence against Manafort. What he needed Gates' help with was the core mission of the special counsel, which is the ties between the Trump campaign -- alleged ties between the Trump campaign and the Russians. And, Wolf, what this means is that the special counsel is looking specifically at making the case of Russian collusion, that it has not gone away, despite what you hear from President Trump and from his allies.</s>BLITZER: From Republican members of the House Intelligence Committee. They just wrapped up their own investigation. Are there any indications of how this is playing out with Gates?</s>PEREZ: Well, we're beginning to see a little bit of that. We don't know exactly what Rick Gates has told the special counsel, but we're beginning to see this in some court filings this week, Wolf, especially in a separate case against a lawyer who has pleaded guilty to lying to the special prosecutor. In that court filing, the special counsel said that Rick Gates was in constant contact or is in frequent contact with someone who was known to be a Russian spy, essentially. And so what this tells us is, now we're seeing Robert Mueller is connecting the Trump campaign, Paul Manafort, directly to Russian spies. This is again the central mission that Robert Mueller was appointed to, which was to look into whether or not there were any ties, any special -- any coordination, illegal coordination, between members of the Trump campaign and Russia.</s>BLITZER: What is it, Sara, that Gates might know that might be of specific interest to Robert Mueller, the special counsel?</s>SARA MURRAY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's clear the special counsel thinks that Gates is going to be useful beyond just his business ties to Paul Manafort, beyond just flipping on his former business partner, and that he may have information about potential collusion or coordination between members of the Trump campaign and the Russian officials. One of the things to remember about Rick Gates is, President Trump was never particularly fond of him personally. He was obviously very close to Paul Manafort. He was also close to Tom Barrack, who is a close friend of President Trump. So, when they were on the campaign together, Paul Manafort and Rick Gates, Rick Gates wasn't necessarily in every meeting, every top strategy meeting. But he made it his business to know what was going on. So, for instance, during that summer, where there was the meeting at Trump Tower with a number of Russians, he may not have been in that meeting, but he may very well have heard about it. He may very well have heard about whether those Russians who were there for that meeting met with anyone else in the building. And the other thing to remember is that Gates stayed on the campaign longer than Manafort did. Even after he got fired, Gates still stuck around and he continued to remain in the Trump orbit and went on to work on the inauguration with Tom Barrack.</s>BLITZER: He was there during the transition as well. So what could all this mean for the president?</s>MURRAY: Well, obviously, we have heard the president call this investigation a witch-hunt. We have heard him complain that none of the charges that have come out so far have anything to do with collusion, anything to do with him and Russia, because, of course, Rick Gates and Paul Manafort are facing criminal charges that have to do with their business activities before 2016. But the fact that you now have this link between Rick Gates, between Paul Manafort, between this other person with ties to Russian intelligence, that tells you that there really is an investigation into collusion going on. This is the first sort of big sign that that is still something that Mueller is looking into seriously that's going to take some steam, I think, out of this argument that Mueller is looking into a bunch of things that have nothing to do with Russian collusion.</s>BLITZER: Very interesting and very significant indeed. Guys, good reporting, as usual. Thank you very much. Also breaking tonight, the embattled Attorney General Jeff Sessions resisting a lot of pressure to appoint a new special counsel to investigate allegations of misconduct within the FBI and the Justice Department. Sessions opting instead to name a federal prosecutor to look into conservative claims of anti-Trump bias. Let's go to our justice reporter Laura Jarrett, who is working this story for us. Laura, tell us more about Sessions' announcement just a little while ago.</s>LAURA JARRETT, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Sessions has managed to sidestep really a growing chorus of calls from Republicans on Capitol Hill who wanted a special counsel in the vein of Robert Mueller, and instead Sessions has opted to name a prosecutor in Utah. He's a veteran career prosecutor, John Huber, who was first appointed U.S. attorney There in Utah under the Obama administration and then reappointed under Trump. And he received wide bipartisan support at the time, but things have clearly changed and he's now entering this fierce partisan battle, with Democrats saying anything that distracts from Mueller is illegitimate, whereas Republicans say the Justice Department simply cannot investigate itself. Now, Sessions spent at least four pages explaining his decision here tonight, Wolf, explaining that Huber is a career federal prosecutor, but also outlining the standards for appointing a special prosecutor and the extreme bar that there is to appoint one, and clearly intimating here the standard is just not met. Now, he didn't foreclose the door completely. He explained that Huber has the ability to come to him and say that the circumstances warrant appointment of a special counsel, but that's clearly not the move right now. At least at this point, Wolf, we haven't heard anything from Capitol Hill. No Republicans from Congress have responded to the news and neither has the president.</s>BLITZER: And I'm sure there will. There will be a lot of disappointment among these conservative Republicans and some leading figures in the conservative news media as well who insisted that a second special counsel was needed because you can't trust the career Justice Department officials to really get the job done. That was their allegation. Laura, thank you very much for that report. Let's talk about all these breaking stories with Democratic Congressman Ted Lieu. He serves on the Judiciary and Foreign Affairs Committees. Congressman, how significant is it that the second special counsel that so many Republicans wanted was denied today by the attorney general?</s>REP. TED LIEU (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Wolf, for your question. I think it is significant. This is basically a signal from Attorney General Jeff Sessions that he doesn't think there's a lot there for the appointment of a special counsel. And the Uranium One scandal, whether it's a scandal or not, has been looked at repeatedly. The Republicans do seem like they want to spend a lot of time trying to impeach Hillary Clinton, but she is not our president. She is a private citizen. They're trying to distract from the special counsel's investigation, and that's what we really need to be focused on.</s>BLITZER: On the other breaking news that we had at the top of the hour, the special counsel, Robert Mueller, he's looking into information from Rick Gates, who has pled guilty, as you know, on possible collusion, not so interested on what Paul Manafort, the former Trump campaign chairman did, but on possible collusion. How significant is that?</s>LIEU: That is very significant. Keep in mind that Rick Gates was also the deputy campaign manager for the Trump campaign. He could have seen and heard a lot. He also stayed on with the campaign even after Manafort left. He was in contact with a person known to be a Russian spy and he knew to be a Russian agent. Let's see what Rick Gates says. There's also reporting today by Reuters that says the Mueller probe is looking into Russian contacts at the Republican National Convention. It's very clear Robert Mueller is looking at the collusion issue actively.</s>BLITZER: What questions do you have right now about collusion between -- the alleged collusion, I should say, between the Trump campaign and the Russians?</s>LIEU: Well, we know that George Papadopoulos had advanced knowledge that the Russians had Hillary's e-mails. Who else in the Trump campaign knew that? We know that George Papadopoulos was communicating with some of the highest levels of the folks at the Trump campaign. Did any of them know about Hillary Clinton's e-mails that Russia had and were going to release, and did they act on that? Because, if they did, then that's conspiracy, that's collusion.</s>BLITZER: As you know, Reuters is reporting that the special counsel, Robert Mueller, is also investigating Russia's role and possible influence at the 2016 Republican National Convention, when the then Senator Jeff Sessions, now attorney general, met with the Russian ambassador, Kislyak, among others. What does that tell you?</s>LIEU: So, there's been 1,000 stories on Russia. It can be quite complicated, but there are three things that are not disputed. One is that the Russians interfered with the U.S. elections in 2016 and they benefited the Trump campaign. We know the Trump campaign benefited Russia at the Republican National Convention by taking out language favorable to Ukraine and unfavorable to Russia. And thanks to a free press, we now know there's been communications between the two sides. The issue now is, was there some sort of understanding or quid pro quo between the Trump campaign and the Russians that they would mutually benefit each other?</s>BLITZER: And getting back to the attorney general, Jeff Sessions, now ruling out a second special counsel, at least for now, I want you to listen to what the president's allies have been saying in recent days. Listen to this.</s>SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: The chairman and I have looked real close at the FBI investigation of the Clinton e-mail scandal. And I have come away believing that it was shoddily done, that there were conflicts of interest, that there was political bias that may have resulted in giving Clinton a pass. The Steele dossier was paid for by the Democratic Party through Fusion GPS. Mr. Steele had associates in Russia that could have easily compromised him. And we believe the FISA warrant process was abused. And the reason we want a special counsel is, I think crimes may have been committed.</s>REP. MARK MEADOWS (R), NORTH CAROLINA: I call on us appointing a special counsel, a second one, to investigate the investigators.</s>REP. JIM JORDAN (R), OHIO: You're supposed to give the court the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I don't think they gave them the truth, so this needs investigating. The only remedy is a second special counsel.</s>REP. MATT GAETZ (R), FLORIDA: The FBI and Department of Justice aren't going to be putting the handcuffs on themselves. So, we need a second special counsel.</s>SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: Sources telling us tonight that there is a very high probability that Sessions in fact will act and that he will appoint a second special counsel.</s>BLITZER: Well, he did not do that today. Do you believe, Congressman, the attorney general can survive in light of all that?</s>LIEU: I do. I have looked at a lot of the same evidence that these Republicans are alleging, and there's just not a lot "there" there in terms of the scandal, in terms of Hillary Clinton's e-mails. Whether or not anything improper happened, it's been looked at repeatedly. And then when it comes to the FISA warrant, we know that, from the Democratic memo, the Steele dossier was corroborated by multiple independent sources. That just ends the matter. So it's not clear to me why we need a special counsel to look at that matter again. I think Attorney General Sessions did absolutely the right thing.</s>BLITZER: Well, when you say it was corroborated, you don't mean all the salacious details, the allegations in there? Was that corroborated?</s>LIEU: The parts that were used in the FISA warrant were corroborated.</s>BLITZER: But none of the salacious details in there?</s>LIEU: That's correct. But as we sit here today, no one has actually said the Steele dossier is false. What they have said is, it's salacious. And more and more parts of it keep getting corroborated as time goes along.</s>BLITZER: What would you do, Congressman, if the president were to fire the attorney general, Jeff Sessions?</s>LIEU: That would be obstruction of justice. And the only reason he would be doing that is to try to meddle with special counsel Robert Mueller. That would be an act that would be violative of the rule of law. I think people would take to the streets. And I urge the president not to do it. And, by the way, Senator Lindsey Graham, who you had played, also said the president should not do that as well.</s>BLITZER: You're talking about firing Jeff Sessions or firing the special counsel, Robert Mueller?</s>LIEU: Right. Both.</s>BLITZER: Both. OK. Congressman Ted Lieu, thanks very much for joining us.</s>LIEU: Thank you.</s>BLITZER: Just ahead, we will more on this new twist in Robert Mueller's investigation, what the special counsel, Robert Mueller, is trying to learn from a cooperating witness and former Trump campaign official Rick Gates. And a federal judge denies a move by Stormy Daniels' attorney to question President Trump and his lawyer, Michael Cohen, about a hush money deal with the porn star. Is it just a temporary setback?