Can Loyal Delegates Control the Convention?; Interview with Tom Ridge; The Trump Factor: PA Dems Voting in GOP Primary; Can Trump Get to 1,237 Delegates?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Michael Smerconish. No other state will send as many unbound delegates to the Republican convention this July, as my home state of Pennsylvania. My state's crazy rules mean that no matter who wins the GOP vote on Tuesday, 54 delegates can still support whoever they want. Is that fair? So, which candidates will still be smiling after Tuesday's in the Keystone and four other East Coast states? Plus, I'll talk to some of the 90,000 Pennsylvania voters who switched their registration to the GOP for the primary, many hoping to either help or hurt Donald Trump.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I needed to switch parties.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm tired of being blamed for all of the things that people don't want to get off their butt and do a job.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donald Trump has been in real estate for quite a few years and I'm quite sure he's still in real estate.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's disrupted the system.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's saying it from his heart.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something equivalent to third grade recess.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to learn $1 bet between him and another rich guy.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody I know is voting. They think</s>SMERCONISH: We'll get to that panel of Pennsylvania voters later. They had a lot to say. First, here's why my home state might be responsible for delivering the nomination to Donald Trump or thwarting the GOP front-runner. It's got a unique delegate system that no matter who wins on Tuesday, keeps 54 of its 71 delegates in play. And this is crucial to Donald Trump. With 15 contests left, he has 846 delegates. He needs to get to 1,237 to clinch the nomination. There are 674 remaining in play. And according to CNN's number crunchers, if he continues at his current rate of victory, he could finish 75 delegates shy. So, Trump needs unbound delegates. No doubt, he'll seek to corral the delegates of candidates who have dropped out of the race. Think Marco Rubio. But beyond those, the largest single group up for grabs will be Pennsylvania's 54 free agent delegates who, due to my state's wacky laws, will not be obligated to follow the wishes of the voters they represent. It's just one of many examples of my state's anachronistic rules that drive me crazy. And get this, the Pennsylvania ballot, it contains no information about the prospective delegate' candidate choice, which forces voters to try to figure out who are these delegate candidates and how might they vote at the convention. This week, I decided to do some investigating in my home congressional district, where four candidates are competing for three delegate slots. I e-mailed each and I asked them for whom they intended to vote on the first ballot in Cleveland and what would be their approach thereafter. Two of them wouldn't commit. Another revealed a strong preference for Ted Cruz, and only one said she'd follow the results as voted on by the electorate. Think about what this means, about the convoluted nature of Pennsylvania's primary. Depending on who wins, I could be represented at convention by three delegates who won't vote based on who won the district that sent them there. This is why people refer to Pennsylvania's Republican primary as a beauty contest. I don't like it. At the very least, delegates should be obligated to follow the will of the electorate on the first ballot. Instead, these 54 are still in play after all of the campaigning and all of the voting is done. And you can be sure that the man who wrote 'The Art of the Deal" will be looking to bargain with Pennsylvania's 54 uncommitted delegates to try to close the most important deal in our country. So, who are these delegates? Who will get to make up their own mind? I thought I better talk to some. Three join me now. It won't say on their local ballot whose they're for, but Ryan Belz is a student at Penn State, he's for Donald Trump. So is Matt Jansen, who works for a green energy start-up. Aldridk Gessa supports Ted Cruz and works in risk management. Thank you for being here. Aldridk, let me begin with you because you're running in the second congressional district, that's where I live. I'm unsettled by the idea that, say, John Kasich, or Donald Trump, could win the second, but you're going to go and vote at the convention for Ted Cruz, nonetheless. How come?</s>ALDRIDK GESSA, PA DELEGATE CANDIDATE, CRUZ SUPPORTER: Because I support conservatism and Ted Cruz is the most conservative candidate that we have on the slate.</s>SMERCONISH: Right. But what about the idea that my voice ought to be represented? If I should vote for Kasich or if I should vote for Trump and they win the congressional district, it doesn't seem to me that you go to Cleveland and instead cast a ballot for Ted Cruz.</s>GESSA: Well, there are four delegates, candidates for delegates, running in the second congressional. I'm running publicly as a Ted Cruz candidate. So, all of the voters of the second congressional district have a chance to elect the people they want to send to the convention.</s>SMERCONISH: Matthew, that presupposes that the voters who go into the ballot booth know for whom any of you will be voting. It doesn't say anything inside the ballot booth. So, let me ask you the same question that I asked Aldridk, do you think it's proper that this is the way Pennsylvania rules should function?</s>MATT JANSEN, PA DELEGATE CANDIDATE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I know that there are pocket of inertia across the state that have sort of coalesce. Trump inertia, if you will, that have found each other. We've formed a group called DelegatesforTrump.com. And that is a highway to who the Trump delegates are, the strong Trump delegates in Pennsylvania, in all 18 districts.</s>SMERCONISH: If Donald Trump doesn't win your congressional district, will you re-evaluate whether you'll go to Cleveland and vote for him on the first ballot?</s>JANSEN: Absolutely not. And I have to say, absolutely not because I'm convinced that Donald Trump is going to went the fourth congressional district, as well as Pennsylvania.</s>SMERCONISH: Ryan, are you being lobbied by any of the other candidates? Are you getting contacted by the Kasich campaign? Or are you getting contacted by the Cruz campaign or trying to win you over?</s>RYAN BELZ, PA DELEGATE CANDIDATES, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I've got a few e- mails from the Kasich campaign, but just that's it. I haven't heard from the Cruz campaign. All of my communication has been from the Trump campaign since the beginning.</s>SMERCONISH: What is your philosophy? What is your approach on not only the first ballot, but on a second, third, fourth, if they required?</s>BELZ: Each and every ballot, I plan to vote for Donald J. Trump as nominee for the Republican Party. I have been a strong supporter of his since I was 7 or 8, when I saw him come down the escalator back in June, I knew he United States the plan who could make America great again.</s>SMERCONISH: Matthew, will you be open to a pitch if there is second or third ballot by, say, John Kasich, who says to delegates, OK, you voted for Donald Trump, he didn't get to 1,237, look at this polling data, I'm the one who can beat Hillary? Will you be open to that kind of pitch?</s>JANSEN: Absolutely not. Because he can't beat Hillary, that's the thing.</s>JANSEN: I'm sorry. She's a wolf. She's a wolf. Kasich did well in Ohio after he followed a terrible governor. So, you know, there's no way -- Donald Trump's the only one that can beat her, clearly, I hope the Cruz people understand that and come over with us on Election Day.</s>SMERCONISH: Aldridk, Ryan and Matthew are saying, look, this is it, man, I'm going to Cleveland if I'm elected and I'm for The Donald. Do you feel the same way about Ted Cruz, or is there any give, could you be persuaded on a second ballot.</s>GESSA: I will be voting for Ted Cruz on all ballots. However, I'm not opposed to a joint ticket with Kasich.</s>SMERCONISH: You know, listen, I'm giving the three of you a workout. And I don't mean to, because you didn't write the rules and I admire your passion, but there's something wrong with this picture that Pennsylvanians are going to go out and vote on Tuesday, in many instances not knowing whom they're voting when it gets to delegate position, and then 54 of you are going off to Cleveland and maybe determine who will be the next Republican nominee. Ryan, talk me out of it.</s>BELZ: I completely agree with you. I mean, honestly, being a Trump supporter, I think it would be beneficial, if it did say who we support on the ballot, because if somebody votes for Trump but pick three Cruz delegates or Cruz, Kasich, Cruz delegate, their vote didn't matter except for the 17 statewide delegates.</s>SMERCONISH: Exactly.</s>BELZ: If it did say who we support, I think it would be better.</s>SMERCONISH: Donald Trump is -- Donald Trump is leading in the polls in Pennsylvania right now. Who knows how it all plays out?</s>BELZ: Right.</s>SMERCONISH: But to Matthew and to Ryan, you're absolutely right. This could come back to haunt you insofar as Trump could win the state but who knows? Maybe a slew of Kasich or like Aldridk, a slew of Cruz delegates get elected, you guys wouldn't be happy because the will of the people wouldn't be represented. Anyway, I wish all through of you good things. Good luck on Tuesday. I give you credit for running for delegate, okay.</s>GESSA: Thank you.</s>BELZ: Thank you. I appreciate it.</s>SMERCONISH: Joining me now, the former governor of Pennsylvania, Tom Ridge. He was also the nation's first secretary of Homeland Security. He's a supporter of John Kasich. Governor, do you think that Donald Trump is going to get to 1,237 before Cleveland?</s>TOM RIDGE, NATIONAL CO-CHAIR, KASICH FOR AMERICA: Well, I don't believe he is up frankly, it's so sacred that my friend John Kasich's strategy is based upon his inability to get to 1,237 as well as Senator Cruz. And there's so many people talking about, Michael, I won more primaries than you did. I mean, it's like kids in a sandbox. In the political contest, unlike any other contest, whether the hockey playoffs or NBA, there's no shot clock. This game goes on until somebody gets 1,237. So, it's still game on. And, frankly, it's a very exciting convention because of that reason because I don't think anybody's going to get to the number in either first or second ballot.</s>SMERCONISH: In which case John Kasich will be lucky to have tom ridge because this group of 54, not that they're monolithic, they're not, but it's the single, largest group of uncommitted delegates who will show up in Cleveland. They will owe nothing to anyone, mostly to the people who sent them there. So, do you view your role in Cleveland, if Trump doesn't get to 1,237, as herding these cats?</s>RIDGE: Well, I'll do my best I can even before the convention to convince them that the nominee at the convention -- we have a lot of, as you well know, most states send a lot of grassroots, hard-working folks the establishment, whatever that is, they're paying several hundred thousand dollars in sipping drinks and watching the action on the floor. But the people who go to the polls, people that knock on doors, people that make phone calls, they're on the floor. I think, frankly, in Pennsylvania, I want those 54 to think not just who's at the top of the ticket. We've got an incredibly fine senator by the name of Pat Toomey, we've got statewide elections. It's not jus$ who is at the top but who can lead the ticket. And, frankly, I think John Kasich is in a better position to lead the ticket in Pennsylvania than his two opponents.</s>SMERCONISH: Give me the benefit of your intelligence. Who is the best organized among the three at having run delegates with a loyalty to them?</s>RIDGE: Well, my read right now within Pennsylvania, I'm focused on that, is I think I give a slight edge to both Donald Trump and to the senator. John's got a place here. He's got some people working it. But the other two, I think, started working the delegate process before John Kasich did. So I think you're going to see a mixed result next Tuesday within Pennsylvania.</s>SMERCONISH: Right. Which brings me back to my original premise, if your guy runs well in some of the congressional districts he may have nothing to show for it if Ted Cruz outhustled him in running delegates. Your final thought?</s>RIDGE: Well, I think that's accurate. And I think that you know, you do reward hustle and you do reward organization. And we're going to see whether or not that hustle, organization is rewarded. But again, they are committed on that first ballot, legally, some of the states are committed on the second ballot. But the time you get to the third ballot, I'd like to think most people on that floor are not only interested in winning in Cleveland, and in the middle of the summer, they want to win in November. We've got a lot of Senate races at stake. You got a lot of other state races around the country at stake and county races. So, I'd like to think we're going to pay attention to the fact that John has won in head-to-head with Hillary Clinton, he's 15 out of 15 over the last polls taken, whether or not that's an influence 90 days from now, you and I will be talking about it.</s>SMERCONISH: If it doesn't go that way, do you see yourself in Erie at the airport with Trump's hand in the air endorsing him?</s>RIDGE: Not a chance.</s>SMERCONISH: I'd like the fact you didn't beat around the bush on that, huh?</s>RIDGE: So, there's just nothing there for me. I will tell you, candidly, he hasn't taken criticism very well. He builds himself up by knocking other people down. He disrespected my fellow veterans, POW. And, not when he knocked McCain, how the hell can be he be commander in chief when he says POWs are not heroes and every Muslim's a potential terrorist. I mean, so many things be I don't know whether it's public or private, maybe he's a chameleon, but what I see I don't like, and I can't support him.</s>SMERCONISH: Governor Ridge, when you come back, don't hold back your opinion. Tell me what you really think, OK?</s>RIDGE: I'll be happy to, Michael. Thank you.</s>SMERCONISH: Up next, I'm one of thousands who switched registration to Republican for Tuesday's Pennsylvania primary. Did folks do this to help Trump win, or to stop him? Our exclusive focus group is next.