Zimmerman Murder Trial; Sex Abuse Lawsuits Against Kevin Clash Thrown Out
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, KILLED TRAYVON MARTIN: (Bleep) they will always get away.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that something you would use in reference to somebody that you`re going to invite over to dinner? Would you call them a piece of (bleep)?</s>A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT: Tonight on the showbiz countdown, today`s top three showbiz justice game changers, including George Zimmerman`s own explosive words about Trayvon Martin. Are they going to sink Zimmerman`s defense? Plus, showbiz royal baby bonanza. Just revealed duchess Katherine`s delivery plans if she gives birth before her due date. "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" is live in London on royal baby watch with CNN international`s Max Foster. "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" starts right now. Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer. Thank you for watching. Tonight, showbiz justice game changer. So, we are counting down today`s top three biggest bombshells in the legal world and we kick things off with number three. It`s George Zimmerman in his own words. George Zimmerman is accused of second degree murder in the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. And today, the jury got to hear more of Zimmerman`s self- defense story straight from the defendant. Today, prosecutors asked the lead police investigator in the case about colorful words that Zimmerman used as he called the cops on that tragic night.</s>ZIMMERMAN: (bleep) they always get away.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that something you would use in reference to somebody that you`re going to invite over for dinner? Would you call them a piece of (bleep)?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir, I would not.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does that seem like to you like a friendly comment about somebody else?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir, it`s not.</s>HAMMER: OK. So, do Zimmerman`s own words that night prove in any way that he murdered Trayvon Martin? Joining me right now from Hollywood, criminal defense attorney Darren Kavinoky. He is the host of "Deadly Sins" on Investigation Discovery, also from Hollywood tonight, defense attorney, Anahita Sedaghatfar. So guys, all day today, you`re watching it on HLN`s live coverage of the Zimmerman trial. We heard the prosecutors just hammering home Zimmerman`s words, the very words that he used that night as he called the cops. She said f`ing punks and a-holes while he followed Trayvon Martin. Darren, let me start with you on this. What exactly is the point prosecutors are trying to make? Is it all about showing Zimmerman`s potential bias here? Is there more to it than that?</s>DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Yes. This is a trial chuck full of spicy adult language, you know. It is time for the ear muffs, kids. And today, of course, we saw a lot more of that today. And yes, it`s exactly that. What the prosecution is trying to show here is that Zimmerman was profiling Trayvon Martin, that Zimmerman had an agenda, that this is something Zimmerman was out to do, and the prosecution is trying to lengthen the time period that we`re focusing on here to not make it just about that incident where they`re tussling, but to get into Zimmerman`s mind to show that hatred for him.</s>HAMMER: OK. But still, at the end of the stay, it in itself doesn`t prove anything, Anahita. So, how much does the language Zimmerman used that night matter in this case do you think?</s>ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, I agree with what Darren was saying. But the fact of the matter is that George Zimmerman was talking about this a-hole that had previously tried to break in. There were previous break-ins. They did get away. That statement is corroborated by the fact that Zimmerman made numerous 911 calls and other witnesses said there were break-ins in that neighborhood. So, to the extent the prosecution wants to use these words against Zimmerman to show that he actually profiled Trayvon Martin, or went after him because he`s black, I think that argument failed. And we saw that with the FBI. They conducted an independent investigation, A.J., and found that Zimmerman acted with no racial motive here. And we also saw yesterday with two of the state`s witnesses which in my opinion again turned into defense witnesses, the police investigators who said race played no role in Zimmerman`s actions that night. So, it`s an argument the prosecution is making, but it fails.</s>HAMMER: It`s an argument that is at the heart of what has drawn so many people in to watching this live coverage here on HLN. And some other testimony that could or could not play into it all, we heard from a witness today who said Zimmerman is his best friend. We heard him testifying about what Zimmerman told him about the shooting. So when he was on the stand, Mark Osterman made a shocking claim. He said that Zimmerman said that Trayvon reached for Zimmerman`s gun during their struggle.</s>MARK O`MARA, ZIMMERMAN DEFENSE LAWYER: Tell me what he did say about having to grab his gun.</s>MARK OSTERMAN, ZIMMERMAN`S FRIEND: He said that Trayvon had reached down and grabbed for the gun. Whether it was on the leather holster or on the actual metal part itself, at the time I didn`t see a difference, I just thought that the intent was clear, and that`s when he had to -- he freed one of his hands and went and got the gun. He either broke contact or knocked somebody else`s hand away or Trayvon`s hand away from him reaching for the gun or grabbing the gun and then he drew it.</s>HAMMER: OK. So, Darren, right there, you have another version of another story from that fateful night. I`m putting you in the jury box for just a moment. You`re sitting there. You are listening to this guy who says he`s one of Zimmerman`s best friends testifying. Does it change anything in your mind what he said?</s>KAVINOKY: Well, yes, with friends like that, A.J., you don`t need enemies. And by the way, one of the big headlines from Osterman was how he showed up on the witness stand. Did anybody notice the flop sweat that was going on there? And frankly, for good reason because what he was saying was bad, bad, bad for his friend Zimmerman. This was an inconsistent statement. This is entirely different than every other interview that Zimmerman gave police. And those are the little facts that can help turn cases around. If the jury doesn`t believe Zimmerman, then they may not buy his position about self-defense. So this isn`t good for him.</s>HAMMER: Yes, it doesn`t seem like it is. Although, you know, pretty warm in that courtroom there, Darren, and we keep your studio pretty cool and that`s why we`re not seeing you sweating there, I`m just saying.</s>SEDAGHATFAR: Thank goodness.</s>HAMMER: What we`re hearing a lot from George Zimmerman`s police calls, police interviews, what he told friends. Anahita, do you think we`re getting to the point where it is going to make a whole lot of sense where Zimmerman himself to actually take the stand and just speak?</s>SEDAGHATFAR: Well, you know A.J., as defense attorneys, we never want to put our criminal defendants on the stand, unless we absolutely have to. And I think what we saw yesterday where the prosecution played the audio tapes and videotapes of George Zimmerman`s interview with the police. That was essentially Zimmerman testifying. And the prosecution didn`t have the benefit of cross-examining him. So, I think that helped the defense. And the way the case has gone so far, I think the defense has poked hole after hole after hole into the prosecution`s case. But quite frankly, they don`t need to put Zimmerman on the stand. I don`t think they will and I don`t think they should.</s>HAMMER: How about you, Darren?</s>KAVINOKY: Well, look, it`s a decision that`s not usually made until much later in the case. And I absolutely agree that here we are, in the prosecution`s case, things seem to be going pretty well for the defense, and they`ve certainly gotten their narrative out through those videotapes and other interviews. All of that said, a defendant has an absolute right to testify. So it may not be until this entire thing unfolds before George Zimmerman finally makes that decision. But I agree, unless you`ve got to put your client on, never good idea. It`s a high-risk move.</s>HAMMER: Yes. I don`t know a whole lot, but I`ve watched enough coverage here on HLN to know. Yes, probably not a good thing to do. All right. So while Zimmerman is having his day in court, it actually looks like now another possible defendant may avoid court altogether. Number two in our showbiz justice countdown, sex abuse lawsuits against the man who played Elmo on Sesame Street, are no more. So, there were three suits alleging sex abuse by Kevin Clash that had been thrown out by a Manhattan court. The judge ruled that the statute of limitations had run out. And that leaves only one pending lawsuit against Clash. Clash`s lawyers say they are moving to have that suit thrown out as well. Let me ask you, Darren, again, our countdown question, with most of the lawsuits now dismissed, do you see any way clash will ever be able to return to Sesame Street? A lot of damage done here.</s>KAVINOKY: Yes, there has been a lot of reputation al damage. And I will say this, that a lawsuit being dismissed for statute of limitations reasons, which is fancy legalese for saying to the plaintiffs, you didn`t sue him quickly enough. It`s hardly a ringing endorsement, or a total exoneration. But certainly Elmo is a beloved character. This is a man who has won a massive number of awards, including a recent Emmy award. You know, as much as we love to see people fall, we love to see them come back. So this may be just another comeback story.</s>HAMMER: Yes. I mean, potentially, really sad, sad situation right here. Regardless of the legal reason it was thrown out. It was thrown out. And as you said, Darren, the guy gets a lot of respect for his work on "Sesame Street." He won that Emmy just last month for playing Elmo. Even though his sex scandal was known by the time the voting process was under way. Anahita, I`m curious to get your take on that. The lawsuits, let`s say they`re all dismissed, the final pending one, do you think Kevin Clash could ever return to "Sesame Street" at this point or is it something that people just won`t want regardless because of the damage that`s been done?</s>SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. I mean, I think what Darren said is also very true. That the court dismissed these three lawsuits based on a technicality. Basically, the statute of limitations only means that the plaintiffs didn`t file their case in time. The judge made absolutely no ruling on the merits of the case, A.J., and there is still one other pending case. So it is a semi victory for this guy. But you know, whether or not he should make any career moves or career decisions yet, I just think it`s best to wait. And we don`t even know if "Sesame Street" wants him back. He probably should just stay away.</s>HAMMER: Yes. And let me just remind everybody --</s>KAVINOKY: Private employers have a lot of discretion in this space. It bears mentioning, if they don`t take him back, they`re well within their rights for a variety of reasons.</s>HAMMER: Yes, and to be clear, but innocent until proven guilty. Darren, Anahita, I want you to stay right there. We have the big reveal coming up. The question now, why is Paula Deen number one in our showbiz justice countdown tonight? That is coming up in just a moment. But now, I have to move on to what could very well be a game changer from Mariah Carey`s reputation tonight.</s>HAMMER: Did Mariah just get caught lip syncing again? Did she make a bad move? Tonight, the madness over Mariah. Plus, it is the showbiz baby newsmaker`s countdown you cannot miss. Kanye West just stepped into the spotlight for the first time since little North West was born. So tonight, I`m revealing papa Kanye`s brand-new daddy swag. Will it top our showbiz countdown tonight? This is SBT, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" on HLN.