Interview With New York Congressman Peter King
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: We now know that at least one U.S. citizen was on Malaysia Air Flight 17 when it was shot down. If you connect the dots, does Vladimir Putin have American blood on his hands? I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD. The world lead. The U.S. government believes that the missile that shot down flight 17 came from an area of Ukraine controlled by Russian-backed separatists. So how guilty does that make Vladimir Putin in all this? If you choose to believe him, not at all. And he was the only known American on board Flight 17, what we're learning about him and the nearly 300 other victims who died with him. And also in world news, flares in the night sky over Gaza, as Israeli boots march below, Israel pushing a ground offensive and warning, this may be only the beginning. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Jake Tapper. Welcome to THE LEAD. We're going to begin with the world lead, of course. His name was Quinn Lucas Schansman. He was a dual American-Dutch citizen, he was a young man, and he was one of the 298 people on Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 when it was shot down, most likely by a surface-to-air missile, shot, the Obama administration believes, from a section of Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian separatists. Now, a senior defense official tells CNN that the working theory in the U.S. government is that the Russian military supplied the rebels with the Buk missile system used to shoot down the plane. President Obama personally confirmed that at least one American was on board and he demanded an immediate cease-fire in Eastern Ukraine among Russia, the separatists and the Ukrainian government. He also called for a -- quote -- "credible international investigation" into what happened. The president repeated an accusation today that U.S. officials have been making for months, that Russia is pulling the strings on these rebels.</s>BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They are heavily armed and they are trained. And we know that that's not an accident. That is happening because of Russian support. It is not possible for these separatists to function the way they're functioning without sophisticated equipment and sophisticated training, and that is coming from Russia.</s>TAPPER: And yet Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has denied any Russian involvement in stirring up any of the unrest in Ukraine, despite Ukraine's government claiming to have photographic proof of Russian soldiers waltzing around with guns inside their country, well, Putin, he blames Ukraine for the downed plane.</s>VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I want to emphasize that this tragedy would not have happened if there were peace on that land, and, in any case, if the military activities had not resumed in the southeast of Ukraine, and, of course, the state over which territory it happened is responsible for this terrible tragedy.</s>TAPPER: The mere act of investigating this atrocity has proven to become dangerous. European inspectors report shots fired near the crash site. And their spokesman says they have only been allowed to inspect about 200 yards of debris at the scene. The debris of course goes on for miles. They're hoping to find the black boxes, the plane's data recorder and cockpit recorder. But there are fears among the Ukrainians the rebels may have already found the black boxes and handed them over to Russia. I want to get to our Phil Black standing by live in Donetsk, Ukraine. Phil, what are you hearing about access being limited at the site of the crash?</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, I can tell you we have moved out of Donetsk and we have actually just arrived at the site of the crash just as we speak right now. We're near the town of Grabovo, which is further east of Donetsk. it's very late here, 11:00 p.m. It is dark. It is remote. The roads out this way, they are pretty terrible. It's taken some hours to travel this way working our way through rebel checkpoints. But we have just arrived. We're just starting to see things right now. We have just seen for the first time a large piece of what clearly looks like part of the fuselage of the MH17. We're seeing what appears to be the beginnings of a recovery operation, an organized effort, which we're told is being put together and run by local administrations from the Donetsk region not connected directly to the central government in Kiev, but these are local authorities, local administration. We don't know how much progress they're making just yet, as I say, dark, difficult to see. But we have gotten an indication from those European observers who were the first international team to get on the ground here today, and they talked about experiencing a great deal of hostility from the rebels here, and, also, disturbingly, talked about seeing some of the bodies already decomposing in the sun. So, clearly a lot of work to be done here, and access here is very difficult. But access is what will be needed to investigators, to recovery efforts and so forth in order to get the evidence and also recover the bodies of the people who so tragically lost their lives on this flight, Jake.</s>TAPPER: Phil Black, thank you so much. Stay safe. As we have reported, U.S. intelligence indicates that the missile that brought down Flight 17 was fired from an area of Eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian separatists. But what is the evidence for this claim? Well, Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr joins us now live from the Pentagon. Barbara, behind the scenes, how did U.S. intelligence come to this conclusion?</s>BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jake, it's just like a bunch of cops looking at a crime scene. And that's what this is, looking for who had the means and the motive. They had two pieces of intelligence to start. U.S. intelligence, satellites and radars saw two things. They saw a surface-to-air missile system radar being turned on, emitting a signal. They also saw the heat signature of a major explosion in the sky not too far away. That was the starting point. They then worked their way backwards and plotted the trajectories of both the missile and aircraft and came up with what they believe was the point of impact over this area of Ukraine that is controlled by Russian separatists. Now, for several weeks, U.S. commanders have been warning that the Russians have been transferring heavy weapons across the border. So what about this surface-to-air missile system? Well, they kept looking. There are two Russian systems that would have the capability to even do this, the warhead power, the guidance, the distance, the range. One is not in that region at all. The other one is this, the Buk, known by the U.S. as the SA-11, known by the Russians as the Buk. This is essentially what was left standing once they eliminated all the other possibilities. The question now, did the Russians actually send this Buk system over the border from Russia into this area of Ukraine? The Pentagon says it's not sure about that point yet, but what the Pentagon press secretary, Admiral John Kirby, said today was, in his words, it strains credulity to think that the separatists could have done this all on their own. They get the training, the advice, the help from the Russians. This is a very complicated system to operate. Not very likely they did it all by themselves.</s>TAPPER: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you so. The Ukrainians also say they have intercepted phone calls between Russian forces and pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine, talking about moving the kind of weaponry believed to have brought down this passenger jet, that Buk missile system, across the border before the crash. Let's take a listen to that audio.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Where do we have to unload this beauty? Nikolaiovich?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, yes but that one which I delivered. I am already in Donetsk.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Is this what I am thinking about, B, M? That one?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes. Yes. Buk. Buk.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Is she on the truck?</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, she is on there. We need to unload her somewhere to hide it.</s>TAPPER: Let's bring in Congressman Peter King. He's a member of the Homeland Security Committee and a chairman of the Subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence. He's a Republican from New York State. Congressman King, this information comes directly from the Ukrainian government. Obviously, they have been fighting these rebels. Obviously, they are against what they allege Russia is doing in supporting these rebels. How much stock do you put in this intelligence?</s>REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: I would put a lot into it, even standing by itself. But when you combine it with everything else we know, as Barbara Starr laid out, to me there's a very convincing case here, compelling case that these -- that this is Russian weaponry. There's no other place it could have come from except for Russia. And there's no way that these separatists would have been able to operate this equipment either without a tremendous amount of training from the Russians or even having a Russian special operator there with them. So Russia has to be ultimately responsible at the very least for criminal negligence, and in the world of international politics and diplomacy, they have to bear responsibility. Transferring weapons of this magnitude to a rebel group, you have to be responsible for the consequences. I'm not aware of this happening before, any weapons of this type being given by a major power to a splinter group or a secessionist or insurrectionist group.</s>TAPPER: So, does Putin have blood on his hands with this plane crash?</s>KING: Putin is responsible. If you want to use the expression blood on his hands, I would say yes. As a world leader, he has to know that when he transfers weaponry of this sophistication, which is so lethal, he has to be responsible for the consequences for that. An American died. So I would blame Putin for that. And I would also put responsibility on him for all of the others. He's the one who made the decision. If he had not transferred this equipment, it wouldn't have happened. And if he hadn't ordered the training of these secessionists to operate the equipment, it couldn't have happened. So, yes, in the world stage, he's responsible.</s>TAPPER: So, Congressman, what should the consequences be? What would you advise President Obama to do?</s>KING: I was critical of President Obama yesterday for not being more assertive. I thought he was very effective today. I thought Ambassador Samantha Power was extremely effective at the United Nations. And Americans have to come together behind the president on this. I think though we need very strong economic sanctions, stronger than we have had. And I have urged actually that we consider having sanctions on Aeroflot, the Russian-owned airline, the government-owned airline, and deny them access to our airports, and not just the U.S. We get our Western allies to go along with that, because that would have a real economic impact and also tremendous symbolic impact. Putin is going to have to acknowledge that he is responsible for this. He's going to have to not only just make amends for it, but he has to I believe show that he's withdrawing all of this type of equipment from Eastern Ukraine and to have it back into Russia.</s>TAPPER: Congressman, what can you tell us about the investigation into what precisely happened here?</s>KING: It's going to be difficult. We're talking about a crime scene. It's a crime scene that's spread over 10 miles. It's already been contaminated. And we don't know the where the black box is. Every piece of evidence is vital, and yet -- so I would say it's important for the OSCE to get in there, the OSCE to go in and for Russia to guarantee that they have safe passage in and out. Otherwise, the blood that Putin has on his hands is only going to be magnified. We can't go back to the old days of Stalin and Brezhnev and Khrushchev, where something like this is covered up. We live in a very international world today. And we depend on commerce. We depend upon certain ground rules being observed. And one of them is that you don't shoot down passenger airliners. And if a major power is involved in that, they have a real responsibility and Putin has to now try to undo some of the harm he's done by guaranteeing safe passage and access to an international investigation team going in there, right now, I would say initially by</s>OSCE. TAPPER: All right, Congressman Peter King of New York, thank you so much. Coming up, Ukraine quick to point the finger at pro-Russian rebels for shooting down Flight 17. And they say those phone recorded conversations prove it. But how we do know they're authentic? Well, I will ask the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States coming up next. Plus, scientists, students, babies traveling home or on summer vacation, the tragic stories of the lives lost on Flight 17 in the words of the family members and the loved ones they left behind.