Susan Rice in the Shadows
KURTZ: I've covered plenty of nomination fights in Washington. But can we ever cover one that hasn't made, at least not yet? Just when the media -- much of the media were getting tired of the Benghazi story, Susan Rice went to the Hill this week to meet with Republican senators who've been ripping her over the attack in Libya and could block her promotion as secretary of state if President Obama decides to nominate her. Benghazi is completed, of course, but the food fight over Rice -- not so much.</s>SEN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: Here's Susan Rice, misled the American people. She didn't tell them the truth despite all the evidence that we now know to the contrary, that she had available to her.</s>TOURE, MSNBC: And what's the other big story of the week? Susan Rice, where they are wrongfully attacking a person who has done nothing wrong?</s>ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC: The Republican smear campaign against Ambassador Susan Rice continues as more senators pile on.</s>KURTZ: So, was the coverage fair to Rice and to her detractors? Joining us now in New York, Keli Goff, political correspondent for TheRoot.com. And here in Washington, Ramesh Ponnuru, senior editor at "The National Review" and a columnist for "Bloomberg View." Keli Goff, isn't it odd for the press to be covering a nomination that hasn't happened based on closed door meetings between Susan Rice and Republican senators where we don't actually know what was said?</s>KELI GOFF, THEROOT.COM: In a word, yes, it's very odd. But it's not particularly odd if you look at it through the lens of some of the partisanship and the partisanism, as I'd like to call it, in the coverage, right? Originally, we had FOX News really trying to sort of push this cover up and turn it into a big election related scandal. And the Petraeus story blew wide open, which I will agree got more coverage than should have, in an era that we have the economy in the toilet, a lot of Americans out of work, and we were covering, you know, Broadwell, Petraeus, et cetera. This is sort of the next leg of that, with the conservative media really trying to sort of push this angle that there's some cover up. And I think that, frankly, there's some resentment that the story didn't really gain any traction. It made a difference to the election and --</s>KURTZ: Right. It was overshadowed by Petraeus as you say.</s>GOFF: Right.</s>KURTZ: Let me turn to Ramesh. How is this for classic Washington media controversy? Susan Rice delivered the talking points on TV, but some other agency wrote them. And we get to fight about that.</s>RAMESH PONNURU, THE NATIONAL REVIEW: Well, yes, that's a big part of the story and any story where you can actually have talking points about talking points which is what we're increasingly --</s>KURTZ: I hope you didn't bring your talking points today.</s>PONNURU: I think the media coverage is shaping this, the results here. I think we're reaching a point if Obama doesn't nominate Susan Rice to be secretary of state, it will be seen as his backing down. And a lot of liberal base, which has really gotten upset about what it sees as an outrageous attack on her will be very upset.</s>KURTZ: Because of the high profile and the nature of the story.</s>PONNURU: Exactly, because the coverage is treating her as though she were --</s>KURTZ: As though she's the nominee. I suspect you are right. I want to play a bit more sound for both of you. This is from MSNBC, where some liberal commentators -- I emphasize some -- are starting to frame this controversy that's getting all this attention, as Ramesh, says, in racial terms. Let's take a listen.</s>RICHARD WOLFFE, MSNBC: And frankly it's outrageous that there is this witch hunt going on on the right about these people of color, let's face it, around this president. Eric Holder, Valerie Jarrett, now Susan Rice.</s>TOURE: He also gave us the horrible optics of he and Lindsey Graham as old white establishment folks wrongly and repeatedly attacking a much younger black woman, moments after an election in which blacks and women went strongly blue.</s>KURTZ: Keli, Toure was talking about John McCain and Lindsey Graham. But why steer this in the direction of the fact that the possible nominee, the U.N. ambassador, is an African-American? What does that have to do with this controversy?</s>GOFF: Well, to be fair, it's actually not the liberal media. It was actually Representative Clyburn, Representative Fudge, and other African-American members of Congress, and not just African-American members who raised this issue. And so, think it would be irresponsible if the media didn't at least cover what a member of Congress is quoting as a potential allegation.</s>KURTZ: These guys weren't quoting Congressman Clyburn. They were saying on their own authority that they think Susan Rice is being beat up upon unfairly -- and they're entitled to their point of view --</s>GOFF: Right.</s>KURTZ: -- because she is a black woman. And that's a pretty toxic charge.</s>GOFF: Right. But the only thing I -- the point I'm making, Howard, is not as wacky in the context when you have members of Congress saying the same thing, right? So, for a member of the media to say it it's not entirely fair to say that Toure is initiating this, Wolffe is initiating this, when they are members of Congress who think and say the same thing. The other point that I think is important to say --</s>KURTZ: Let me get Ramesh to jump in and then I'll come back to you.</s>GOFF: OK. OK.</s>PONNURU: Yes. And I think the underlying charge here is patently absurd. I mean, as was actually pointed out in real time to Richard Wolffe, McCain supported Condoleezza Rice's nomination to be secretary of state. He obviously doesn't have any problem with black women being in that position.</s>KURTZ: So you can say he's being partisan but not racially motivated.</s>PONNURU: Yes, that's right. You can say it's unfair. You can say it's partisan. But I think that specific charge is just outrageous. Yes, I completely agree with Keli that members of Congress have been making this charge and it ought to be reported that they're making this charge, but I think commentators who are adding fuel to that fire are being foolish and responsible.</s>GOFF: Can I respond a little bit, though, on one place where I really disagree? Is that I don't think anyone is going around saying Senator John McCain hates black people and it's this raving racist. I do think that the questions, though, that they raised are worth exploring, in the context of the fact, it's sort of like, Howard, the only way I can explain this is, is it racist to call someone lazy? Is it racist to call someone cheap? Is it anti-Semitic to call someone cheap? No, not in and of itself. But in the historical context of our country, someone labeling a Jewish person cheap in a particular context, a black person lazy in a particular context could be perceived as racially inflammatory. So, when you have Senator McCain who tried to convinced us that Sarah Palin was qualified to be president, say that an African-American woman with a PhD, who is a Rhodes Scholar and a former assistant secretary of state is, quote, "not qualified" and not bright for what she said, it can open up questions of a cultural land mine that I think the media would be irresponsible not to cover and asking certain questions about where that's coming from, particular from a white man of a certain age.</s>KURTZ: Not sure I agree. But let me move on to other big topic here and that's the fiscal cliff as we face this deadline just a few weeks away. The president gave a speech on Friday that really struck me as somebody who follows social media closely. Let's listen to what Barack Obama had to say.</s>BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want you to call, I want you to send an e-mail, post on their Facebook wall. If you tweet, then use the hashtag we're calling my2K -- not y2k, my2k, all right? It's because about your 2K in your pocket.</s>KURTZ: Now, Ramesh, that's a reference to the administration's argument that if Congress does nothing and taxes automatically rise, the average middle class will lose more than $2,000 a year. I'm just so struck the president is using this Twitter hashtag. Is than an effective way to try to increase pressure on Republicans?</s>PONNURU: I guess it's the new call your congressman and let him know how you feel. I'm not sure that it's actually going to increase pressure on Republicans. It's going to make the president's core supporters I think feel engaged even after the campaign is over. But I really have a hard time believing that Republican congressmen are going to be worried -- oh my goodness, have you seen the number of tweets we're getting on this?</s>KURTZ: Well, on the other hand, conservative, Republican organizations have tried to fight back. For example, the conservative Heritage Foundation bought, it's called sponsored tweet, brought from Twitter, this my2k, so when you search for it on Twitter, you get the Heritage Foundation's take on it before you even got Barack Obama's one take. So, social media platform I would say is not to be minimized, since so many politicians now lived there.</s>GOFF: No. Look, and the study has proven that Facebook and social media can actually increase voter turn out. So, we can't entirely laugh it off. I mean, I think my take on this is we will know if the White House has really won the social media fiscal cliff battle if we see a newborn named my2k anytime soon this week. The first baby named hashtag made her debut. So, look, it's taken over the world and it's taken politics. What can we say?</s>PONNURU: But if I could just add to one point that Howard make, I think it's right to say that a lot of the impact is through journalists. You make these Twitter campaigns in order to influence the cable TV coverage, the network coverage.</s>KURTZ: It's an echo chamber.</s>PONNURU: Right.</s>GOFF: It absolutely does --</s>KURTZ: I believe it's one of the reasons I believe that Twitter is so influential. All right. Thanks very much Ramesh Ponnuru and Keli Goff this Sunday morning. Coming up next, FOX News pulls the plug on veteran military reporter Tom Ricks. He doesn't think much of MSNBC either. A look at the war of words in just a moment.