Operation Anaconda Over But Pentagon Not Sure How Many Enemy Forces Destroyed; Israel Withdrawing From Palestinian Areas
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: This is a sad day for us after a sad weekend, and I want to take a moment or two to talk about it here. A friend died last night. He was not a young man, though early 70s is still too young to die, and his death was not surprising. He had cancer. At one level, I'm glad he didn't linger longer with pain, replacing the memory of a life well lived. Ed Grossman was a teacher. I met him a few years back when he asked me to talk to his fifth grade class. Afterward, we went to the town diner and we had lunch and we did this several times each year, the diner, his house or ours, a restaurant, his wife and mine, our daughter, all of us. He became my daughter's fifth grade teacher, his last class before he retired, and she once said in the nicest compliment I could ever image, "I'm sure glad Mr. Grossman waited one more year before quitting." So am I. He was a fabulous teacher. He taught until he was 70. In truth, he could have made almost as much money collecting his pension, but he was a teacher and he had an ego and I think it made him crazy thinking someone else might teach a class when he still could. He was more than a teacher, of course. He was a husband and a father and a grandfather. He loved to play tennis, which he did non bad knees and a fair sized belly, and while he loved books and words and talked at love, he was not at all above lying on the couch and watching the ballgame at night. But mostly he was a teacher, and for almost a half a century he taught elementary school students, my daughter and thousands of other kids who understand the founding of their country, a whole lot of math I don't get, the importance of a good newspaper and the wisdom of the Kipling poem "If" better, because of him. Ed left the world in a sad and troubled state, but he leaves behind thousands of former students who are smarter, more thoughtful, more generous, a little funnier and far better able to make this world right than they ever would have been without him. On to the program, we spend a lot of time tonight on something we haven't talked much about in a while, the hunt for Osama bin Laden, why the trail seems to have gone cold. That starts off the whip tonight. Jamie McIntyre is at the Pentagon. Jamie, the headline, please.</s>JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, some senior Pentagon officials think there were holes in the U.S. dragnet late last year when Osama bin Laden appeared to be surrounded but eluded capture. It was a lesson the U.S. military thought it learned in Operation Anaconda, which it says is a success, even though it can't say how many enemy forces were killed or how many got away -- Aaron.</s>BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Is bin Laden still alive? A fascinating hint from a member of the family. David Ensor worked the story, David the headline from you.</s>DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron the headline is that one of the half brothers of Osama bin Laden, one of the half brothers who grew up with him in his mother's house says that he has reason to believe that Osama bin Laden was at least three weeks ago still alive. He believes he is still alive now. He also denies reports that he had kidney problems requiring kidney dialysis, and he's in denial about whether bin Laden was behind September 11th -- Aaron.</s>BROWN: David, we look forward to the report. On to the Middle East, the Vice President is in Israel. Michael Holmes is in Jerusalem for us. Michael welcome to the whip, a headline from you please.</s>MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Dick Cheney arrived her hoping to see a ceasefire or a ceasefire agreement in place. That didn't happen. However, some good news, some progress. Israeli tanks and troops pulling out of key areas that were under Palestinian control, places like Betjala (ph) and Bethlehem. Today in Israel, they are back under Palestinian security control -- Aaron.</s>BROWN: Michael, thank you, back to you shortly. A shift now for us, closing arguments today out West in the dog mauling case in Los Angeles. Thelma Gutierrez has been covering that, is again tonight, Thelma the headline.</s>THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Aaron, closing arguments began today in Los Angeles in the case of a woman mauled to death by her neighbor's dogs. Emotions ran high as defense attorneys for a San Francisco couple made their final appeal to jurors. The prosecution argued the couple is criminally responsible for her death -- Aaron.</s>BROWN: Thelma, thank you, back with all of you shortly. As we said, we'll be taking an in-depth look at the hunt for bin Laden, and we'll also remember why we're hunting for the guy in the first place. A report from Ground Zero, a new book by retired firefighter Dennis Smith on the chaos of the early days at Ground Zero and the brotherhood that's gotten infinitely stronger despite its losses since September 11th. Not all heavy stuff for Monday. Thankfully, this one gets our best drama without a doubt award, allegations of conspiracy against the movie "A Beautiful Mind" up for eight Oscars Sunday night. Jeff Greenfield has some things to say about that and we'll get the buzz as well from Hollywood reporter Kim Masters, all of that in the hour ahead. We're glad you're with us. We begin with Operation Anaconda. It's over, we're told, but did it really do what it was supposed to do? General Tommy Franks today said yes it did. He called the battlefield a very different place from two weeks ago when that battle began. What the general didn't say was how many enemy fighters took part, how many died, and perhaps most importantly, how many got away. But he made clear there are more battles, similar with perhaps equally murky results ahead. So we go back to the Pentagon to start things off and CNN's Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.</s>MCINTYRE: Well, Aaron, Operation Anaconda was named for the snake that surrounds and crushes its prey, but as Operation Anaconda came to a close, one that was expected originally at the last two or three days, ended up lasting more than two weeks. It was still uncertain how many of those forces were actually surrounded and crushed. The Pentagon privately is sticking to its estimate of 500 to 700 killed, even though there are only several dozen bodies so far that have turned up on the battlefield, but the Pentagon says it's hunt for al Qaeda and Taliban will continue. This lesson about how hard it is to encircle a prey is one the Pentagon thought it learned in December, when it appeared that Osama bin Laden might be surrounded, but then slipped from its grasp.</s>MCINTYRE (voice over): In mid-December, the U.S. briefly believed Osama bin Laden was surrounded in Tora Bora by two converging Afghan armies, but either bin Laden got away or was never there, illustrating problem number one, a lack of good intelligence.</s>DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We think he's in Afghanistan. We are chasing him. He is hiding. He does not want us to know where he is. We are asking everyone we can to help.</s>MCINTYRE: Problem number two argue some senior Pentagon officials is that the U.S. may have miscalculated, relying too much on rival Afghan warlords to block escape routes and ill-equipped Pakistani troops to seal the border.</s>JIM PHILLIPS, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: I think we learned at Tora Bora, that we needed a higher component of Americans on the ground. We couldn't depend on the Afghans because they have a way of very quickly changing sides, as the Taliban learned.</s>MCINTYRE: In fact, there is some evidence, Pentagon officials say, that some Afghan allies took bribes to look the other way.</s>PHILLIPS: Unfortunately at Tora Bora, it seems there were many trails that were not blocked and that many of bin Laden's fighters probably escaped.</s>MCINTYRE: Other Pentagon officials defend the strategy. Pouring a large force of U.S. ground troops into Afghanistan, they argue, would have upset the delicate alliance with local Afghans.</s>MAJOR GENERAL DONALD SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's hard to say that it was a mistake at Tora Bora. We went with what we had and we went with what we had to do at the time, which was the Afghan forces and the Special Forces doing most of the fighting. Mc</s>INTYRE: But Pentagon sources say Central Commander General Tommy Franks was convinced not even 5,000 U.S. troops would have been enough to block bin Laden's escape.</s>SHEPPERD: If I were bin Laden at the time and I was in this Tora Bora area, I would want to operate in an area where I had sympathy with the people in the area, and that's this whole area that I've circled here on the map. He's got a great deal of sympathy and tribal support in that area.</s>MCINTYRE (on camera): And now, three months later, the U.S. still doesn't know if Osama bin Laden was ever in Tora Bora and whether he's dead or alive. The working assumption is even if he did slip into Pakistan, they think he's back in Afghanistan now hiding and the U.S. believes eventually it will find him -- Aaron.</s>BROWN: Why do they believe that he's back in Afghanistan?</s>MCINTYRE: Well, that's what the latest intelligence indicates, but the Pentagon is first to say that it's intelligence has been conflicting and inconclusive. That's why if you ask anybody here, they'll tell you where's bin Laden, they say "we just don't know."</s>BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. In a moment, we'll talk with a writer who may have uncovered a new connection between al Qaeda and Iraq. A former director of the CIA calls it quite a scoop so we'll get into that in a little bit. Also about bin Laden himself, CNN has learned his family has been in touch with him, at least so the family claims, as recently as three weeks ago, just one of the things we found out when we sat down with one of Osama bin Laden's younger brothers, and we'll bring you the detail on that a little later in the program as well. On to the Middle East now, Vice President Cheney arrived today in Israel, the latest stop on a mission that has turned out very different from the one originally planned. His trip was aimed at building a coalition against Iraq, but day-by-day it has become clear that the Arab states want nothing to do with a war in Iraq unless and until the administration gets more involved with the Israelis and the Palestinians. The administration had hoped to chart a different course, something other than full engagement in the Middle East but now it seems it has no choice and so for the latest on the events today, we go back to Jerusalem and CNN's Michael Holmes. Michael, good evening.</s>HOLMES: Good evening to you, Aaron. That's right, well as we said Betjala and Bethlehem were two key places where there were, until this evening, Israeli tanks, Israeli troops. Israelis announced today, Israeli security sources that they would pull out of those areas and they duly did, also three other areas one in the West Bank, two in the Gaza Strip. We do need to say that there are still troops in a couple of other areas and they will be remaining there for the time being. However, they don't seem to be the stumbling block. The stumbling block was places like Bethlehem and Betjala. Betjala's been a problem for the Israelis. Palestinian snipers can have a clear shot, as it were, across to Israeli citizens who live across in the area called Ghelo (ph) a familiar name to many viewers. Mistrust here is very high. Palestinians say they want Israel to withdraw to the pre-intafada, that is September, 2000 positions. That's not likely to happen in these negotiations. There was, as you said, hope that Mr. Cheney would arrive here to ceasefire news. That has not happened. He has told advisers that he feels the mistrust here is very high. However there is still some hope. These movements, these withdrawals do give some hope that there will be an announcement, perhaps not today, not tomorrow, perhaps later in the week that there could be a ceasefire. Aaron.</s>BROWN: Do we know anything about who is doing the negotiating here? Are the Americans shuttling between the two sides? What is happening?</s>HOLMES: Absolutely, every day General Anthony Zinni is leading the charge. The U.S. envoy, he is constantly shuffling back and forth. He's met with Yasser Arafat more than once. He's met with other Palestinian, senior Palestinian negotiators more than once, and he's met with Ariel Sharon on a couple of occasions, and of course, Dick Cheney did as well. Dick Cheney has not met with Palestinians. It was hoped by the Palestinians he would call on Yasser Arafat and perhaps discuss the Palestinian side with him. No plans for a meeting. He still - it's about 5:00 a.m. here, just after. He doesn't leave for a few hours. There is still time for a meeting, but his aides tell us it's not likely. So, when Dick Cheney came here, he said that he would meet with both sides if General Zinni thought it would be helpful. Because he hasn't met with the Palestinians, one thinks that perhaps it was decided they're not close enough yet for him to be directly involved, also a feeling from the White House that they didn't want him to be involved because it could undermine General Zinni in some way. So at this stage, it is still General Zinni leading the charge. Aaron.</s>BROWN: Michael, thank you. Michael Holmes in Jerusalem for us tonight. Getting back now to the case against Iraq, the official line being that Saddam Hussein wants the bomb, has chemical and biological weapons, is a threat to his own people and to Iraq's neighbors and therefore ought to be toppled. There you got foreign policy in one sentence. Tying him to September 11th or to al Qaeda has not been especially successful. They may have the same goals and they may have the same enemies, but evidence linking the two has been very sparse. But now come reporter Jeffrey Goldberg, writing in this week's New Yorker that he believes he has found the link and he joins us from Washington to talk about his reporting tonight. Jeffrey, it's nice to see you again.</s>JEFFREY GOLDBERG, "THE NEW YORKER": It's nice to see you.</s>BROWN: Take 30 seconds, I guess, and lay out the link between the Iraqis and al Qaeda.</s>GOLDBERG: Well, what I came up with, I just got back from Kurdistan, Iraq and Kurdistan, and what I found there was a terrorist group, most people don't know about, I didn't know about before I got there, called the Ansar Al-Islam, which means supporters of Islam, and it's a Sunni fundamentalist terror group in the style of Osama bin Laden. And, it's assumed that it had - it was assumed that it had connections to Osama bin Laden, but what I learned over there and I can go into it a little bit if you like. What I learned is that it might also have close ties to Saddam's regime. In fact, it might actually be co-sponsored, if you will, with Saddam's regime, and if this was true and if some of the other allegations that I report on are true, then it reveals a closer and deeper and more permanent kind of relationship between the Iraqi Intelligence Service and al Qaeda than we previously thought of.</s>BROWN: I don't think this will surprise you at all. A senior government official said to us today, told CNN today, that while he had great respect for your reporting and in no way wanted to denigrate that, was absolutely confident people told you the things that you reported, he just did not believe the facts were true.</s>GOLDBERG: Of course, I mean I've heard that too and the thing I would say to that, I mean I talked to other government officials who say they do believe it's true. You know the senior government officials can be anyone. The thing I will say about that is this. When I got to Kurdistan and when I started doing this reporting, I was helped greatly by the Kurds. They even gave me access to prisoners that they held from al Qaeda, and I asked the Kurds, "why are you letting me talk to these people and why are you telling me so much?" And they said in essence, "well you're the first American to show up since September 11th and we're trying to get some attention for this problem." And I said, "does that mean that the CIA hasn't been here and they haven't interviewed the same people that I'm interviewing now" and they said "no, and you know, when you go back to Washington, could you please tell them that we have some interesting things going on here and maybe they should come out and look."</s>BROWN: And just one more question on that vein, and again I don't think any of this will be surprising to you, that the official suggested that - I'm trying to think of how I want to phrase this, that perhaps you're being used, that there are people within the U.S. government and on the periphery of the U.S. government, who very much are hawks on Iraq and would very much like to find this link and that perhaps you're being used by them.</s>GOLDBERG: Well, since they had no idea what I was doing before I got to Kurdistan, while I was in Kurdistan, until about two days ago, I find that hard to believe. They can't use me if they had no idea what I was doing, and you know sure, I was wary. I still am wary of the charges, but you know I will say this. I found the people I spoke to credible. I found it incredible that there's a good chance that I was the first American ever to find these people and talk about these charges. You know we're journalists. It's not the first time today that someone said that I've been used for something. All sources use reporters to get their message across, but I think there's something here that at least warrants further investigation and that's what I said in the magazine. I said, "there stories are interesting enough and compelling enough and credible enough to warrant further investigation."</s>BROWN: They do indeed. It's a fascinating piece in New Yorker. Jeffrey thanks. Jeffrey Goldberg from Washington tonight. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, tonight closing arguments in the dog mauling case. We'll have a report from Los Angeles, and a little bit later, bin Laden's younger brother, one of them, he's got a lot, talks about the world's most wanted man, all ahead on NEWSNIGHT on Monday on CNN.