Interview with Jack Welch, Suzy Welch, Presidential History With Nathan Raab and Douglas Brinkley
MORGAN: It's been 48 years since President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas. One key source about that day is a tape of the radio traffic from Air Force One as it flew back to Washington carrying JFK's body. Until now, only a heavily edited version was available, but tonight there's discovery short to incite conspiracy theorists a much longer version with revealing new details has surfaced. And joining me now to sort out what it all means is presidential history, Douglas Brinkley, and Nathan Raab, his company, the Raab Collection, uncovered the tapes. Let's start with you, Nathan. I mean a fascinating discovery. How did you come across this extra bit of a tape?</s>NATHAN RAAB, VICE PRESIDENT, RAAB COLLECTION: We felt the same way. We literally found it at the bottom of a box, a large box that was part of the collection of Ted Clifton who had worked in the White House both for John F. Kennedy but also for Lyndon Johnson. He left the White House in '65, he died in '91, his wife passed away in 2009 when they sold the estate. This was included along with other personal effects.</s>MORGAN: And this actually the box you found the tape in, right?</s>RAAB: This is the box and the tape is in it. It's a reel-to- reel. And when we found it, it was just a box with a reel-to-reel with no knowledge of what was in it. And we had our suspicions, it says, radio traffic. Involving Air Force One in flight from Dallas that has the date. Now he left the White House in '65, the version we had before came out in the late '60s or at least '70s. The timeframe didn't match.</s>MORGAN: And tell me this, other than the fact of its discovery, which is fascinating, is there anything truly significant on this extra bit of footage or not.</s>RAAB: Yes. Absolutely there is. No only the individual elements of the tape, what is heard within it things that we haven't heard before, but also the fact that it fills in holes. Historians had specific questions, where's the beginning part of this conversation, now we only have the tail end of. He refers to a Cadillac. But we have the beginning portion that. But also the tale of the tape. There was the raw tapes which have gone missing and then there's this original version. You know, how did we get from A to B?</s>MORGAN: Let me go to Douglas Brinkley here. Because, Douglas, you're a big historian. You know this area very well. How significant, do you think, these tapes are in terms of suddenly surfacing like this?</s>DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, HISTORIAN, RICE UNIVERSITY: Well, it's a fascinating story. I mean you have to put in perspective who General Ted Clifton is. He was - there was no White House chief of staff for John F. Kennedy. He was the military aide of Kennedy serving in that function. He was part of the Dallas motorcade. When Kennedy was killed, Clifton was put in charge of getting all military arrangements figured out. Meaning, what do we do if the president dies at Parkland Hospital? How do we move his body to Air Force One? What are we going to do with First Lady Jackie Kennedy who's wearing a pink Chanel suit with blood all over it. This gentleman Ted Cliffton had to deal with it all, and now we've got for the first time this remarkable tape of the journey of Air Force One from Dallas back to Washington. And it raises a lot of question, why did a lot of 45 minutes worth of tape was edited? So people making their judgments on the Warren Commission up now, were missing this 45 minutes and then there are all sorts of nuggets that are emerging from this 45 minute tape that's going to be cherry-picked and analyzed by scholars for months and years to come.</s>MORGAN: Well, let's play a clip which is from the original tape that was put forward which we new existed , he just puts it in context. Let's hear it first.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wayside, wayside, this is the SITUATION ROOM. I read from the AP bulletin, Kennedy apparently shot in head. He fell facedown in back seat of his car. blood was on his head. This as Kennedy cried, oh no, and tried to hold up his head. Connolly remained half seated, slumped to the left. There was blood on his face and forehead. The president and the governor were rushed to Parkland Hospital, near the Dallas Trademark, where Kennedy was to have made a speech. Over.</s>MORGAN: Now that's part of the tape that we've heard before, but it puts it in context. What I want to play now are completely unheard parts of the tape, which have been discovered in this tiny box at Major General Ted Clifton's house. Let's listen to the first clip from this.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General Lemay is in a C140. The last three numbers are 497.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four nine seven, last three numbers.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. He's inbound. His code name is Grandson. And I want to talk to him.</s>MORGAN: Now, the significance of that -- again, to Douglas -- is the fact that it involves General Lemay. Now he was known to be an opponent of President Kennedy's. So this is a sort of sourcing of him in this type, which we weren't aware of before. What does that tell you?</s>BRINKLEY: Well, that's right. Why did General Lemay get cut out of the censored version of this Air Force One tape? Lemay had been an enemy of President Kennedy. He was furious about the way Kennedy handled the Cuban Missile Crisis. He wanted to have bombed Cuba. He was just angry that Kennedy was seeming to be lackadaisical about the effort in Vietnam. So people have always wanted to know where was Curtis Lemay on the day Kennedy was shot? It's been mixed messages about it. This tape provides exactly where he was. But we see a colonel -- we hear a Colonel Dorman calling Air Force One, saying we have to find Curtis Lemay. Otherwise it will be too late, for whatever too late means. But it's significant in the sense of placing -- you know, when you're dealing with the Kennedy assassination, we're trying to understand where all the characters were. Here is just a new mystery that scholars and conspiracy theorists are obviously going to be looking at.</s>MORGAN: Yes. I think the fascinating thing to me is it may not mean anything. But it's the fact that they removed all reference to General Lemay, who had got this history with Kennedy, makes it absolutely compelling. Who decided to take that out? And why would they remove all references to him. Let's play the second clip from the unheard element of this tape, which, again, is really interesting.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General Heaton, this is Dr. Burkley.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, Burkley.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, the military District of Washington in regards to the -- taking care of the remains of the -- President Kennedy -- and we are planning on having the president taken directly to Walter Reed. Probably Mrs. Kennedy will also be going out there. But we will clarify that later.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh. All right.</s>MORGAN: Nathan, I'll come to you with this. This is between Admiral Burkley and General Heaton. It's a piece of history. This is the most infamous moment of America's modern history. And you have got all this stuff which no one has ever heard before.</s>RAAB: That's a powerful clip, because, of course, that's not what ended up happening. The debate about where to send the president's body, whether to go to Walter Reed or to Bethesda, is really what makes this tape central. This is how we know what the federal government did immediately after the assassination. The fact that you have the surgeon general talking with Kennedy's personal doctor, making a decision which later is contrary to what ends up happening, that is powerful. Why that was cut out here -- there's a full lead up to this. And why that moment was cut out, no one's around who could tell you.</s>MORGAN: Now you are trying to sell this. So I am going to go to Douglas to see if he can put a valuation on this? What is the worth, Douglas, would you say, from an historical important point of view?</s>BRINKLEY: Well, you can't write about the Kennedy assassination without grappling with the contents of this tape, meaning the information that's now available on it. It places everything in Air Force One that occurred. Just that clip you just played -- why if the radio is saying you're taking President Kennedy for an autopsy at Walter Reed -- you just heard it -- why was Kennedy, once landed, diverted to Bethesda Naval Hospital. It's simply a question. But the autopsy of an assassinated president is pretty important stuff. And that's been missing from all the books that have been written until now. So people -- we're heading into the 50th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination. And these tapes will be footed noted and quoted in all books in the future. This is a very serious find. I don't know the rare book manuscript market or what -- who would want to particularly purchase this. But from an historian's point of view, it's valuable information.</s>MORGAN: It certainly is. And it's absolutely fascinating, I've got to say. I haven't heard the whole thing, but I'd very much like to. It's a really absorbing and compelling story. This has sat in this guy's house, and never been heard. Even the Warren Commission has never heard this tape, which I think is extraordinary. Thank you very much, Nathan, for bringing it in. Thank you, Douglas, for putting it into historical context. I'm sure this will run and run, the unheard JFK assassination day tapes. Quite extraordinary. After the break, talking of quite extraordinary things, I am going to bring out the single most annoying man I've ever met in my life, Howie Mandel, my former co-judge on "America's Got Talent." I don't know why I'm doing this, to be honest with you.