Interview with Former British Foreign Secretary David Owen
ANDERSON: Well, the wind has dropped. You are watching Connect the World live from Abu Dhabi. And it is a very pleasant evening. Welcome back, I'm Becky Anderson. Ukraine's interim government is offering an olive branch to pro-Russia protesters occupying state buildings in the east of the country. Its message, disarm and depart and you won't be prosecuted. Well, Russia has warned of civil war if Kiev uses force to disperse the demonstrators. But the U.S. says Russia itself is the threat, accusing the Kremlin of dispatching 40,000 troops to the Ukrainian border. NATO agrees there's been a buildup of combat ready troops and has released these images showing tanks in the area. But when our Phil Black traveled through parts of the border region, this is what he discovered.</s>PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORREPSONDENT: Our journey started at the most southern point of the Russian-Ukrainian border. And there we found a border crossing, keep going, hang a left, you end up in Crimea. But at this border crossing itself, it was pretty quiet, just some cargo trucks coming through. From there, we came to another crossing point. Here, we got into a little bit of trouble. Local security rules say journalists aren't allowed within a 5 kilometer zone of the border, about 3 miles, unless they have special permission from the federal security service. So we were detained for about three hours. And we got a very stern talking to. Up until that point, we'd seen no military presence whatsoever. That all changed in a very small village of Chikalava (ph). There we came across a huge, really quite expansive training ground. There was an air strip. Locals told us that large numbers of paratroopers have been conducting exercises over that ground last month. That had since all gone home. And it certainly did not look like a place that was at a very high state of readiness. The next border crossing we came to was in the Russian town of Donetsk, not to be confused with the big Ukrainian city of the same name. Video cameras are banned in this town, but what we saw was a big border crossing facility with very few people using it. Outside, lots of surly taxi drivers who told us the Ukrainian authorities at this border crossing were not letting any Russian men beneath the age of 55 cross into Ukraine. But these taxi drivers say they hadn't seen any soldiers or any sort of military present building up in this region.</s>ANDERSON: OK. Well, that was Phil Black. Russia defending its annexation of Crimea, pointing to NATO's intervention in Kosovo in the 1990s as proof of the west's hypocrisy. Well, one man who knows all about that chapter in history is David Owen, now Lord Owen, who has written widely about Russia's claim to Crimea and spoken out against western sanctions. We're going to do that a little later. First, he's joining me from London. And Lord Owen, you've been talking about the Crimea situation in a way that is almost contrary to what is the official line coming out of London and Washington. You have said, and I quote, the referendum in Crimea has no standing in international law, but the history that lies behind it cannot be brushed aside. Explain what you meant by that.</s>DAVID OWEN, FORMER BRITISH SECRETARY: Well, the Russians have had a naval port in Sevastopol in the Crimea for over two centuries. Think Guantanamo. You've had a base in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba for over 100 years. You have it permanently. You pay a small rent, but the property belongs to Cuba. So the map doesn't change, but you control the military base. And that sort of arrangement might be able to be negotiated for the Crimea. The Crimea is a very different. It was given back to Ukraine when Ukraine was really part of the Soviet Union by Khrushchev in 1954. So it's very different what we're talking about in terms of eastern Ukraine.</s>ANDERSON: What -- this dialogue I'm listening to, this rhetoric I'm listening to, is very reminiscent, isn't it, of the sort of Cold War period, the sphere of influence if you will, countries that follow your ideology and allow you to use your military bases. Are you feeling this same sort of rhetoric building here? And does it worry you to a certain extent, that what you're hearing between Washington and Moscow at this point?</s>OWEN: Well, I think Washington should remember the Monroe Doctrine and the fact that you intervene when Khrushchev put missiles in Cuba, quite rightly, because it was in your sphere of influence. It was a really serious threat. And so we have to take some understanding of this. There is those people who seem to long to go back to the Cold War. The very interesting article today by Thomas Friedman in the New York Times reminding us of what George Cannon -- nobody has a stronger record in American diplomacy of being against Soviet Communism than George Cannon, but he reminded us in 1998 that the ever increasing expansion of NATO was effectively encirclement. He thought it was a great mistake then. He warned that it would adversely have a reaction on Russian policy if it continued. We were very fortunate we didn't take Georgia in when the Georgia crisis brew up. It would be in my view very wise if we don't take NATO enlargement further than it currently is.</s>ANDERSON: Interesting that the Baltic states have been asking for physical feet on the ground, as far as NATO is concerned. What we'll see what...</s>OWEN: Well, that's quite right. I strongly support that.</s>ANDERSON: OK. All right. Well, let me talk to you about sanctions finally, because this is what you've said and written about sanctions. And I quote, territorial disputes are solved usually after long, hard negotiations. Tit-for-tat sanctions are no substitute, you say, for nitty gritty negotiations and compromises. We've heard the word sanction used a lot from Washington and the EU against Moscow of late. I'd go so far as to say what happened to date has been action rather than sanctions. You don't want to see further sanctions. I mean, these would be quite punitive, one assumes, going forward.</s>OWEN: Well, I think that the talks between Secretary of State Kerry and the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov is the right way to proceed and they're discussing in Eastern Ukraine can there be a degree of autonomy for the Russian-speaking part in eastern Ukraine. You have that in your states. You're a federal state. The governor of a state is elected. They have considerable freedom of policies. But I think that the other thing to remember is this, Yeltsin brought in a market economy, under our persuasion. And the business is the way to start to break down barriers and talk to each other and negotiate together and effectively do business together. And that myself, I believe, is the right way to change attitudes. Politicians are fixed in the past. They seem to want to go back to Cold War rhetoric on both sides, that doesn't help. Just keep going ordinary people trading off each other, selling goods to each other, working with each other in the markets of the world, that's the Russia that made great strides from 1990 all the way through until just recently. And Putin may not like it, but that's the best way to improve relations between Russia and the west.</s>ANDERSON: Always fascinating to talk to you, Lord Owen, thank you very much indeed for joining. This is Connect the World with me Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi for you where, of course, we are now housed, as it were, our new home here in the UAE. The latest world news headlines are just ahead. 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