Attorney General: Mueller Finds No Evidence Of Collusion Between Trump Campaign And Russia; McConnell Blocks Resolution Calling For Mueller Report To Be Made Public
VAUSE: In victory seems comes revenge. U.S. President Donald Trump is now set his sights on those behind the Mueller report. He's claiming total victory after his Attorney General released his conclusions from Robert Mueller's nearly two-year-long investigation. All of this happened on Sunday. That four-page summary showed the Trump campaign did not conspire with Russia, but it did not exonerate him totally on the question of obstruction of justice. Now, Donald Trump wants those who did what he calls "evil things" to be investigated.</s>TRUMP: There are a lot of people out there that have done some very, very evil things very bad things, I would say treasonous things against our country. And hopefully, that people that have done such harm to our country, we've gone through a period of really bad things happening. Those people will certainly be looked at. I've been looking at them for a long time and I'm saying why haven't they been looked at?</s>VAUSE: To our panel now, Michael Genovese, author of How Trump Governs? And president of the Global Policy Institute at Loyola Marymount University. And Mark Kokanovich, a former federal prosecutor. So, Mark, great to have you with us. We're going to you first. There's been a lot of back-and-forth about all of this, and a lot of will center on that question of obstruction of justice. So, some legal advice here, Mark. The Attorney General Bill Barr said that because Mueller did not find enough evidence prove an underlying crime, therefore, it would be difficult to prove corrupt intent beyond a reasonable doubt on this question of obstruction of justice. So, here is one explanation of why all of that is nonsensical. "The Attorney General's position is not only flatly wrong, it's dangerous. If Barr's view was widely adopted by federal prosecutors, it would provide a truly perverse incentive to engage in obstruction. If wrongdoers knew they were likely to be charged with obstruction if prosecutors are unable to obtain sufficient evidence of an underlying crime, then they would have every reason to engage in obstruction and witness tampering in an effort to prevent prosecutors from gaining access to underlying inculpatory testimony and other evidence that might lead to such charges." OK, it was long but I know you're still with us. So, how do you see it?</s>MARK KOKANOVICH, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: John, that's exactly right. And I would take a little bit of issue with the lead- in tonight. We don't have the report yet. My colleague Dennis Burke, former U.S. attorney and currently with me at Ballard Spahr now, appeared on this program on Friday. And I agree with him and many others. And the unanimous vote of the House of Representatives that this report needs to be disclosed. It hasn't been disclosed. All of the discussion that we've had surrounding the report hasn't -- we haven't had the benefit of having the report in front of us, of reviewing what's actually in the report. Mueller conducted this investigation professionally, scrupulously, and as he has in conducting his life with service to a cause greater than self-interest. And the American public deserves to see what's in the report. You're exactly right that this would provide a perverse incentive to those who engage in criminal conduct to obstruct the investigation. His obstruction has been in plain view on Twitter. In indeed, evidence of collusion has been in plain view. So, we can't say that there's no evidence of collusion. And certainly, that there's no evidence of obstruction. There's ample evidence of both. The determination about whether or not to charge someone with a federal crime is one thing. But the four-page letter that summarizes this vast report. Points to the justice manual and the principles of federal prosecution. One of those principles is to decide whether or not there are other avenues to pursue justice. And in this instance, one of those avenues is clearly that there's legislative oversight. So, that may also weigh in favor of not bringing federal prosecution.</s>VAUSE: And talking to Michael, very quickly, because right now though, does any of that matter because the narrative has been set? The president and his allies have owned this story for what? Almost 24 hours. No collusion, the president exonerated.</s>KOKANOVICH: Well, of course, that's --</s>VAUSE: To Michael, please.</s>KOKANOVICH: Oh, I'm sorry about --</s>VAUSE: It's OK.</s>MICHAEL GENOVESE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's OK. Of course, the president would say that. We expected that's part of the script. But I think -- I think Mark's essentially correct, and I think Mr. Barr made a fundamental error because if the president, according to his own statements and according to Department of Justice regulations, can't be indicted. Then, what's the remedy? Is there a remedy? He can't be above the law. So, the only remedy is Congress. Congress is the only body that can look at that evidence now, and come to a determination. Is this a problem? Is it an impeachable offense? Or is it not a problem? And I think, Mr. Barr chose party and president over a country in this. He need not have weighed in at all. This should go to the Congress and the entire report with some clear redactions should go to the Congress. If not, to the public as well.</s>VAUSE: He said one crucial line. The special counsel states that "While this report does not conclude the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him." So, this is how the Trump legal team views that one-line. Listen to this.</s>RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY TO PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It means they didn't feel capable of making the decision probably because they had dissent within their ranks. The most important thing is they didn't make the decision to bring a case.</s>JAY SEKULOW, CHIEF COUNSEL, AMERICAN CENTER FOR LAW AND JUSTICE: Right.</s>GIULIANI: Or to conclude that a crime was committed. They actually should stop there. This extra language about not exonerating here, a lot of prosecutors called me this morning and said that's just very, very unusual and very unethical.</s>VAUSE: So, Mark, who are these people calling Rudy Giuliani apart from Don Jr. and Roger Stone? But -- you know, why would -- you know, why would Mueller include that line if it wasn't important?</s>KOKANOVICH: Yes, he clearly says, this report does not exonerate Donald Trump. Donald Trump's own public statements, intimidating witnesses on Twitter. Calling people rats, those things are good evidence of obstruction. And --</s>VAUSE: But why would so -- why would Giuliani call it unethical to include that line though in the report?</s>KOKANOVICH: Why Giuliani does things? You're asking the wrong person.</s>VAUSE: Right.</s>KOKANOVICH: For an opinion on that.</s>VAUSE: Fair point. It just seems that -- you know, they're obviously trying to -- you know, undermine the credibility of that one line, I guess.</s>KOKANOVICH: Yes, and I think as between Rudy Giuliani and Robert Mueller, the credibility is an easy call.</s>VAUSE: Yes. Michael the other bizarre angle here is that the special counsel is appointed to take responsibility of investigating the president away from the people appointed by the president. Yet, one of the most crucial questions Mueller punts and leaves it to the Attorney General to decide.</s>GENOVESE: Well, that's one interpretation. It may very well be that Mr. Mueller knows that the Department of Justice regulations say you can't indict a sitting president. And therefore, he basically said, "I'm -- my hands are tied on this. And therefore, I want you to know that while I'm not concluding that he is guilty of something, I'm certainly not going to exonerate him." So, it may be Mueller trying to just to squeeze the language out around this. So that he basically complies with DOJ rules. But also lets us know that we're not going to exonerate the president. There is something there. Who's going to find out? Congress, us, nobody? Mr. Barr is trying to make it, nobody.</s>VAUSE: Well, with that in mind, you know, Donald Trump has said he would not be bothered if the Mueller report was made public. But yet, hours after that, the Senate Leader Republican Mitch McConnell, he shot down a non-binding resolution calling for the Mueller report to be made public. We also have the chairman of six House committees, all writing to the Attorney General requesting the report be submitted to Congress by next Monday. So, Mark, to you, if this ends up in some kind of legal fighting court, which is what seems to be where it's heading, who is playing a stronger hand? Is it the Attorney General, or to the Democrats?</s>KOKANOVICH: Well, it's clear that if the position of the administration is that this report exonerates him, despite the fact that the report specifically says, it does not exonerate him. But if that's their position, they have nothing to fear from releasing the report. And it looks very suspicious that Mitch McConnell is fighting the release -- the public release of this report. It's critically important for the public to know what Russia did to interfere with the election. It's -- a democracy depends upon the legitimacy of free and fair elections with integrity. And the public deserves to know which of their elected leaders take seriously that charge to protect the integrity of elections. So, those leaders that are in favor of allowing the public to get access to the facts as developed by Mueller in this extensive investigation need to stand firmly in favor of releasing the report with redactions as Michael has pointed out to the legislature and also to the public.</s>VAUSE: Yes, this full-page summary which came out over the weekend, it's got like a Rorschach test of the country. Here's on Nancy Pelosi, the Democrat House Speaker saw it.</s>MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Speaker Pelosi, are you ready to say that there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, and later the Mueller finding?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does this exonerate the president?</s>REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: I think that Mueller report was clear the president is not exonerated.</s>VAUSE: Clear the president was not exonerated. Despite that CNN is reporting that Pelosi has told the party's leadership to move on to focus on, you know, their own agenda, pocketbook issues. And according to our own reporting as well, "Trump plans to turn the investigation, Democrats' constant accusations of wrongdoing and the media's coverage of it all into a new foil, half a dozen advisers and aides have said. He has already signaled he'll weaponize the results, targeting those who ordered the investigation and Democrats he says waged political warfare. The counteroffensive has some advisers concerned the president could overstep, diminishing a clear victory by sinking back into old grudges and calling for extreme steps to punish those he views as foes." So, Michael, if the Democrats hold the line here, that's the big if. And if the president overreaches which is not a big if. How quickly could things turn badly for Donald Trump?</s>GENOVESE: In a nanosecond. But I think this was and I'm -- "was" may not be the appropriate word. But I think it was a great opportunity for the president to push the reset button. He could choose to be a bigger person or a smaller one. He could choose to turn the page or turn to revenge. And he's clearly turned to revenge. He's attacking people as evil as treasonous. He wants to now it seemed to use the tools of the federal government to investigate his political enemies. So, this could get ugly very quickly.</s>VAUSE: Now, thanks to Michael Genovese, there. Former federal prosecutor, as well, Mark Kokanovich, for their time, as well as their insight into what has been a very big story. Still, to come here, they ran away from what they claimed was an abusive family. They're nearly kidnapped by their own government. But now, two sisters from Saudi Arabia may soon be starting a new life. Details next here on CNN NEWSROOM.