Tension in Ferguson as Grand Jury Convenes
CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY. Breaking news in Ferguson: the pathologist who performed a private always for Michael Brown's family will testify before the grand jury today. Now, this is interesting and it raises a question of why, since the prosecutor has just called his own experts. Perception is often reality in this situation. So, what does it mean now that police in Ferguson have purchased much more than what, six figures worth of riot gear to prepare for the grand jury's decision, all while promising that First Amendment rights of protesters will be respected? Does that go together? There's a lot of conflict here. So, let's discuss it with someone who understands the issues very well. Bryan Stevenson is the author of "Just Mercy: A Story of Justice and Redemption". It's a memoir about the start of his legal career, helping the underprivileged. He's also the founder and executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative. It's good to have you on the show, Brian. This is a tough situation. It is a metaphor. It is not just about Ferguson, we all should know that. Yes?</s>BRYAN STEVENSON, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, EQUAL JUSTICE INITIATIVE: Yes.</s>CUOMO: So, when we hear that Dr. Baden is being brought in, Dr. Baden is a famous forensic scientist, OK? Michael Brown's family used him to do the autopsy. The prosecutor does not have to put that autopsy before the grand jury. Why do you think he's doing it? And is it a good move?</s>STEVENSON: Well, I do think that the big issue in Ferguson is the big issue everywhere. You have lots of people in our community that simply do not trust law enforcement. They do not trust the people who are empowered to protect them from threats. And that trust is longstanding, and you cannot understand these issues without understanding the backdrop, the context. And many people of color feel like they are targeted, harassed. They're presumed guilty. They presumed dangerous. And these incidents when they manifest themselves in the way that they have so tragically, this kind of feed that distrust. And unfortunately, there's been too little in Ferguson to kind of restore trust. And even in the process of this indictment and the legal proceedings, there are doubts. And so, you see the family responding with that doubt mindset.</s>CUOMO: Is this a step in the right direction, hearing that their expert is being used at the grand jury? It's unusual.</s>STEVENSON: It is unusual. But I think it is a step in the right direction. You want to accommodate the victims of this situation. You want to make people feel like their perspectives are being credited and heard. And when you don't do that, you just feed that distrust. And I think absolutely they should be employing this expert and using every other tool and resource to make --</s>CUOMO: They've been going a long time. We don't know what he's presenting. There are leaks. You know, we talk about perception is reality and how people feel about these situations almost metaphorically, because they happen in different places. Leaks are not unusual, situations like this in terms of how we're learning things is not unusual. The idea of what actually happened here is what is getting lost in this. If this grand jury hears everything and says, you know what, I understand why the officer thought what he thought, because of what happened at the car. And I understand what the officer thought, what he thought, when the shooting actually happened. And they buy that the kid, Michael Brown had turn and was coming at him. And there is no indictment. Do you think that should be respected by the community?</s>STEVENSON: Well, they will have no choice but to you know kind of, they won't have the ability to go beyond that legally. But no, I actually think that communities that feel targeted and disrupted by this kind of violence have a legitimate need to want better, to want more. And even if in this particular incident there is no indictment, I think that they should credibly be demanding and will credibly demand different relations between police --</s>CUOMO: They are different issues. I do not disagree with you and I want to pursue what you're saying. However, one step back -- if there is no indictment and you lose it on the streets of Ferguson, how is that a reaction that is any better than the problem?</s>STEVENSON: Well, I don't think that you can expect more from the community than you expect from the police officers that serve the community. And if you have a community that feels threatened and targeted and harassed and mistreated by the police, then you're going to get comparable kinds of reactions. I think unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. We've got four 40 years of police shootings of young, unarmed African-American men and boys that rarely get prosecuted the way they should. So, you can't disconnect from that larger history and so people feel very frustrated by that.</s>CUOMO: Sure, but it's hard because you can't be blinded by the perception in the moment of reality. If Wilson is clean and, you know, and this is a horrible shooting, you have to take that for what it is. It feeds into the other things you're saying. We haven't seen the leadership in Ferguson that we could have. Governor Nixon is out there now talking a lot about the response. He has not been out there as much on the streets of Ferguson talking about the problem. You could very well argue. The word from the local authorities is we're going to wait for the word to come down and then reach out. You could argue, no, no, reach out now, take your beatings in public verbally, but start to build bridges. We're not seeing it. You think that's a problem?</s>STEVENSON: I think it's a huge problem, and problem, it shouldn't happen a week before the indictment. It should have been happening for the last two or three months.</s>CUOMO: Right.</s>STEVENSON: People in that community feel like every day they're being targeted. Everybody they're being harassed. They have to fear the police and the violent offenders in their community.</s>CUOMO: The cops work against them, not for them.</s>STEVENSON: Absolutely. That they see them as the community sees -- the cops see these community members as enemies.</s>CUOMO: That's the perception. And when they hear that the Brown family didn't have the normal liaison with the prosecutor's office, you know how it usually works, right? They treat you, even if a cop is involved, like OK, you were the one who was shot, let's deal with your family and make sure it's OK. That's not happening here.</s>STEVENSON: Well, that's again just one more symptom of a larger problem. And the truth of it is, is that you're not going to be able to deal with that problem using standard operating procedures, which are basically, hope for the best, use extra control. Try to get through. You're going to have to change the way you relate to people who feel I think justifiably outraged by their treatment, not just in this particular instant. But day in, day out, week in, week out. And it's an experience that frankly I think is shared by many people of color in this country.</s>CUOMO: All right. Now, and that's why you wrote the book "Just Mercy". We're going to have to find time to talk more about this book. But Ferguson is a great demonstration of why Bryan wrote the book in the first place. It's not about, it has nothing to do with Ferguson, talking about right or wrong or what happened, but the issues that are presented in here, he tells them through the story of one man and his problems with the justice system. But it's done as metaphor for how money plays in the justice system, and what the realities are and not just the perception. It is very strong on that level. "Just Mercy: A Story of Justice and Redemption". It's written by Bryn Stevenson, it's worth a read on this issue. Thank you very much.</s>STEVENSON: You're very welcome.</s>CUOMO: And for good or bad reason, we're going to be bringing you in again, because there's going to be a need to keep the dialogue going.</s>STEVENSON: Absolutely.</s>CUOMO: All right. Now, we've been saying, perception is often reality with what's going on in Ferguson. So, we're trying to make sure that we reconcile what's said with what we can show. For example, on Wednesday's show, Missouri State Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal was making a lot of points. One of them was she referred to pictures of Apache helicopters and drones that are in Missouri, implying they would be deployed for the situation in Ferguson. So, know this -- the Missouri Department of Public Safety heard that and said -- that is not correct. Assets like that are not there for that purpose. And will not be used in Ferguson. OK? So that's both sides of the situation -- the perception and the reality. This is just one story we're following for you this morning. There's a lot of news, let's get to it.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no formal or strategy or review of our Syria.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a cauldron of disaster.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to have to be smart about what we do.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They would want to see Bashar al Assad gone. Certainly, we do have a common goal there.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're excited about having a great new bunch here. We're here to make the place function again.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the middle of a violent protest, the top official was taken hostage.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a big political crisis for Mexico. We're are all outraged.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm seeing two heads dangling over their scaffolding.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They weren't panicking, but they had no options.</s>CAMEROTA: A lot of news to tell you about. Good morning and welcome back to NEW DAY. I'm Alisyn Camerota, alongside Chris Cuomo. Is President Obama rethinking the strategy to fight ISIS in Syria? Sources tell CNN that the president has asked for a review and is concerned that ISIS can't be taken out without first eliminating Syrian President Bashar al Assad.</s>CUOMO: It's worth providing some context. We're getting mixed messages from the White House. One top official saying any review is part of a larger ongoing assessment. We have to suss this out a little bit. Let's bring in Jim Acosta. He's in Myanmar. That's where the president is taking part in the Southeast Asian summit. Jim, read the tea leaves for us. What's really going on here?</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Chris, what is going on here is the president as you said is in Myanmar for a summit of ASEAN leaders, who are gathered here to talk about regional economic and security priority that are important to this part of the world. But you know, on the sidelines of that, administration officials are being pressed about the president's Syrian strategy when it comes to dealing with ISIS in both Iraq and Syria. We heard from the deputy national security adviser, Ben Rhodes, who came in to talk to reporters earlier today. And he said that there is no formal review that is taking place of the ISIS strategy in Syria. That the president from time to time in his national security team, they do go over exactly what they're doing with respect to dealing with ISIS, and they're saying at this point, they do feel like there is a fundamental weakness with that strategy and that the United States does not have a reliable vetted, trained partner in the Syrian opposition.