President Trump's New Conspiracy Theory Over Jeffrey Epstein's Death; What Is It About President Trump That Has So Many Evangelicals Supporting Him?
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. The Attorney General, William Barr, says he's angry and appalled that Jeffrey Epstein was found dead of an apparent suicide on Saturday while in federal custody in New York City. Epstein was accused of running a sex trafficking ring involving underage girls, some as young as 14. Barr says staff at the federal lockup failed to make sure that Epstein was adequately secure.</s>WILLIAM BARR, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: We are now learning of serious irregularities at this facility that are deeply concerning and demand a thorough investigation.</s>LEMON: And in the face of all that, incredibly, President Trump promoting an outrageous and completely unfounded conspiracy theory, attempting to link Epstein's death to Bill and Hillary Clinton. The big picture tonight, is President Trump degrading the Office of the Presidency? Lots to discuss. Adam Serwer, Lanhee Chen, and also -- Lanhee Chen, and also Tim Naftali, who by the way is the author of "Impeachment in American History." Good to see all of you. Thank you all for coming on. Lanhee, I'm going to start with you. First, I'm going to ask you about Anthony Scaramucci. Moments ago, he told Anderson Cooper the GOP needs to move on from Trump from the 2020 election. Watch this.</s>ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: When you go to bed tonight and you're thinking about your country, don't focus on your wallet or your pocketbook. Focus on what's right for America and say, is this guy normal? Is this the right way to handle things in America? And I think when you do that, you'll get to the place where I'm at.</s>LEMON: Do you think Scaramucci is going to persuade any Republicans or swing voters?</s>LANHEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I don't know that he's going to persuade a whole lot of Republicans. Let me just say this. I've known Anthony for a long time. I consider him a friend. I think it actually took a lot of courage for him to come out and do what he did. You know, I wish his point of view were one that more Republicans would have, which is a critical examination of the president, of his record, of what he's done in arriving at a conclusion after looking at all those things. But that's not where the Republican Party is now, Don. You know that. I know that. So while Anthony might be optimistic about this, I'm far less optimistic in terms of how people are able to think critically about what's happening in arriving at a conclusion on the president that's separate and apart from what we might say about policy, where we might have agreements with him, but really saying what is the president doing in terms of the nature of the office and the nature of the presidency? I think those are the questions that are being asked right now.</s>LEMON: You know, Tim, David Frum is out with an article in the Atlantic, and he says "this presidency shames and disgraces the office every minute of every hour of every day." I mean, this is after President Trump re-tweeted a conspiracy theory implicating the Clintons in the suicide death of Jeffrey Epstein. It's shocking but yet it's just not surprising.</s>TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, it's what's painful is that it's not surprising.</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>NAFTALI: I think for historians, years from now, they'll look at Charlottesville, and they'll see with, you know, and it's now the anniversary sadly of that moment. When the president didn't understand this was a moment for course correction, then we learned a lot about what made Donald Trump tick. And, no, none of this is a surprise. I mean this is -- he has been trafficking in conspiracy theories his entire political life, and he's doing it again. What he's forgotten, or maybe he never understood, is that when you're a president, you're not just another American citizen with strange and wonderful and personal ideas. You are speaking for an entire country, and I think this is what he doesn't get. He says he's playing around. His staff talks about how he's joking. You can't joke about those things as president. Why? Because you're setting a tone in three different respects. One, you're setting a tone for the way we talk to each other as a nation, and you're representing us or not representing us. Two, you're enabling people who may not see those ideas as jokes. I suspect the president doesn't either. You're enabling them to act and think that way. And, three, the world is watching. The United States used to be -- I mean, arguably we weren't always living up to this ideal, but we would suggest that we were supporting liberty and freedom around the world. You now have a president whose rhetoric is contrary to that. All those three implications come from the rhetoric a president uses. He doesn't get it. He keeps thinking he's a billionaire who gets what he wants, and he happens to have a new home in Washington, D.C. temporarily, and he can continue to say and talk the way he did before. He can't. He shouldn't. And the effect on the presidency is corrosive.</s>LEMON: Adam, you know, it seems impossible that the bar gets any lower and lower, but there are so many examples. The treatment of migrants, caging of children, the use of race to divide. Do you think there's going to be lasting damage to the presidency?</s>ADAM SERWER, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: I mean, to be honest, you know, I hope so. I hope there is lasting damage to the presidency to the point where Congress asserts its traditional powers and stops allowing the executive branch to just do whatever it wants with no oversight and no check whatsoever on their power. I mean, to be honest, this is a guy who began his political career by forcing the previous president to show his papers. So, it's not really a surprise to me that he embraced a baseless conspiracy theory implicating his previous political rivals, which by the way, would also implicate him since it's his responsibility if the Clintons killed Epstein, then he's the one who let them do it. It's so ridiculous, and it's disgusting, but I mean in terms of causing human suffering, it's one of the least bad things that Trump has done. He's doing so many other terrible things every second of every day that, you know, it's -- I mean this is just another, you know, bale of hay in the barn.</s>LEMON: Lanhee, the New York Post is reporting at that exclusive Hamptons fund-raiser thrown by billionaire developer Stephen Ross on Friday night, the president also mimicked the accents of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, South Korean President Moon Jae-in. I mean, there are leaders at some of our -- they're are most important allies. It's beyond embarrassing.</s>CHEN: Well, not only is it embarrassing with respect to important relationships, you're right. The Korean and Japanese relationships are two of the most important and vital relationships we have in the world. Indeed, they're the linchpins to our Indo-Pacific strategy to a large degree. But there's also this question, Don, of how Asian-Americans view it, how Asians in the United States who are part of the American body politic, who participate in our economy, who go to schools and are parts of communities all across the country. How do they feel about a president mimicking an accent or mimicking something which, you know, he's not a stand-up comedian as someone said earlier. He's the president of the United States. And what may have been banter in a locker room now is broadcast around the world, and I think that is deeply troubling and deeply problematic. And so, you know, it goes beyond just the geopolitical questions to really how people in this country interpret and see what the president does, and it is damaging. It is hurtful, and it is problematic to see.</s>LEMON: You know, it's not --</s>SERWER: I think Tim is exactly right. You know, the president is -- his treatment of people -- of foreigners reflects on Americans who share that ancestry here in the United States, and I think it's been quite clear that the president simply does not respect in the same way Americans of color in the same way that he does white Americans, and he makes that clear whenever he talks about foreigners, whether it's Latin American migrants, whether it's Japanese people or Korean people. It's always the same thing, which is that he does not consider them as worthy of the same kind of respect that people like him deserve.</s>LEMON: Interesting. You know, Tim, of course President Trump is not the only president who has said racist things. I mean, you unearth the shocking audio call in 1971 between President Nixon and California -- then-governor, right, it was Governor Ronald Reagan. Let's play that call and then we'll talk about it.</s>THEN-GOV. RONALD REAGAN (R-CA): Last night, I tell you, to watch that thing on television as I did.</s>RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.</s>REAGAN: To see those -- those monkeys from those African countries. Damn them, they're still uncomfortable wearing shoes.</s>NIXON: Yes.</s>LEMON: The difference is unlike President Reagan, President Trump says racist things in public, and he's not one bit embarrassed about it.</s>NAFTALI: Let's make clear that it's not good to say racist things --</s>LEMON: Either way. I know. But I know but he just says it in the open is my point.</s>NAFTALI: But this is the huge, huge difference. Richard Nixon, who was a racist -- I say this based on listening to lots of tapes. He didn't have hatred for African-Americans, but he thought them inferior. Richard Nixon understood that as president he couldn't say this publicly. On the tapes, you hear him talking about how there are certain things he can't say. For example, he had these cockamamy weird, ridiculous theories about the relationship between I.Q. and race. He said, we can never say this publicly. He believes it, OK? This is pseudoscience. He understands as president that this would be corrosive and damaging and poisonous for the nation to use this kind of language or even send these implications. This president doesn't understand that he has a set of responsibilities as a uniter. Now, Richard Nixon had some of the same ideas I think that Trump had. The difference is Trump doesn't realize he has a moral obligation to speak as a uniter. That's the difference. We've never had in the modern era a president who was willing to use publicly the language this president uses on a daily basis.</s>LEMON: Yes. Lanhee, listen, aside from the denigrating -- from denigrating the office, is the president's behavior affecting the way Americans treat each other?</s>CHEN: Well, I think that's the fear. That's the million-dollar question because so much of our civil discourse is tied up in politics now. You know, the way people address each other is a function of what they believe is permissible. If you think about what's happening in our political dialogue, it's become incredibly coarse. You know, I know there's a conversation about whether things are getting worse. And I think if you look back during the campaign, I remember when I was on this very program talking about some of the things that candidate Trump did on the campaign trail. Those kinds of activities and that kind of language, a lot of people said, well, if he becomes president, he's going to change. He's going to be a different person. This is the same Donald Trump that's engaging in the same kind of rhetoric, and I do think it has an influence on how people talk. I don't want to say he alone is responsible. I don't think that's true. But I do think as the president he carries a unique perch and a unique set of responsibilities.</s>LEMON: Lanhee, Adam, Tim, thank you so much. I appreciate it.</s>NAFTALI: Thank you.</s>LEMON: We've got a story coming up that's absolutely shocking. A handcuffed black man being led down a Galveston Street by police on horseback. I'm going to talk to the man's sister, also attorney Benjamin Crump, who is demanding the officer's body cam footage. That's next.