Trying to Stop Reactor Meltdown
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (Through Translator): Managed to survive but my daughter was washed away. I don't know what to say. I hope my daughter is still alive somewhere.</s>COOPER: There's so many people right now been separated from their loved ones and simply don't know. You see lists in some places where, people -- you know, lists of injured, list of those who've been confirmed dead. But again -- even though it's three days since this earthquake and tsunami hit, it is still very early days and early hours, and as I said, the official death toll is some 1600 people but one Japanese police official in the north predicted that the death toll could rise into the tens of thousands according to NHK reporting. According to that Japanese official. Another Japanese government official today said this is the biggest tragedy to hit Japan since World War II. The biggest tragedy they've had to deal with since World War II. In other words, this may be the most expensive earthquake in history. Sanjay Gupta again joins us from the area around Sendai. And I want to bring Jim Walsh, a CNN contributor as well. Want to focus now on this nuclear emergency that we are -- that we are facing in an area south of where Sendai is, an area called Fukushima, which is just a little bit south of where I am. We're kind of on the outskirts of it. That's where we flew into earlier today. The biggest plant of concern right now -- there are a number of nuclear facilities in that area but one is called the Fukushima Daiichi Plant. And Japanese officials believe that in at least two of the six reactors there may have been a partial meltdown. They are assuming there has been a partial meltdown -- I stress partial -- in two of the six reactors but they can't confirm that at this point because it is simply too hot inside those reactors for them to really check and they're taking the incredibly unusual step of actually pumping in seawater. So I want to bring in Jim and talk to him. Jim, explain what that means, a partial meltdown in two reactors.</s>JIM WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I know when people hear the world meltdown, Anderson, they get very panicky and they think about that -- you know they think about Chernobyl, they think about Three-Mile Island, but there's a continuum here. You can -- as you rightly point out -- have partial meltdowns. That's very different than the consequences you would have if you had a total meltdown. When you have a total meltdown, the fuel rods all catch fire, they overheat, they melt, they congregate at the bottom of the reactor vessel, and when they do that, they -- you get what's called a criticality accident, and you get something that explodes. And then the question is whether the containment vessel holds all that or whether it cracks and throws that radiation up into the sky. We are not there yet. That's very important to underline.</s>COOPER: So, Jim --</s>WALSH: So we've had what appears --</s>COOPER: Jim, let me just jump in here.</s>WALSH: Yes.</s>COOPER: Let me just jump -- Jim, let me just jump in here. Just explain a couple of terms you're using because you're talking about a containment vessel and fuel rods. The fuel rods, that's the actual nuclear material?</s>WALSH: Exactly. Those are the -- that's the nuclear material that they stick in to the plant that is the fuel for the plant. And by -- and then the containment vessel is something that they did not have at Chernobyl but that they do have here, which -- and the sole purpose of the containment vessel is, if there is a problem, if there is a meltdown, a full meltdown, the purpose of that containment vessel is to keep that contained inside the plant so it does not escape into the environment. That's what happened at Three-Mile Island. We had a meltdown but it was contained and that's -- you know we're not there yet but if we, god forbid, were to get to this point, we would hope that the containment vessel would nevertheless hold that radiation and that material in so that we would not have a Chernobyl style accident.</s>COOPER: So why are they pumping in seawater now at this point?</s>WALSH: Yes. Because they're at -- they got no other choice. You know you don't pump in seawater as your first choice or your fifth choice. They're doing it now because they're trying to keep that reactor cool. They are not able to pump in fresh water. They don't want to pump in seawater because once do you that, that plant is toast. It will never run again. It is over. That's a billion dollars that's gone. But they have no other alternatives. If they're going to keep it cool, they've got to pump in some water so they're pumping in seawater which is salty and corrosive, along with boric acid which reduces the number of neutrons being created. I won't go into that. But the bottom line is they're at the last resort to try and keep it cool because they're trying to avoid a meltdown. And so far it appears as if that's been effective. Earlier in the day there was some questions and I can go into that but it looks as if that is working and that's good news.</s>COOPER: Sanjay, at this point, as I said, there is an evacuation zone around this Fukushima Daiichi plant, 20 kilometers, about 12 miles. They've evacuated some 200,000 people but we've heard that as many as 160 people have tested positive for some level of radiation either on their skin or their clothes and they continue to test people. What are they -- in these tests, is this -- how do they do that, Sanjay? And what actually does radiation do to the body?</s>GUPTA: Well, I mean they're testing to see if in fact, you know, there's been some evidence of some of these radioactive substances on the people. So, you know, they use special measuring devices to do that. As the professor was talking about, there's all sorts of different things that are given off, radioactive materials that are given off as part of this fission process. The concern is there are some of those starting to leak. One thing I want to point out, and I think the professor is alluding to this, is that even if the numbers are higher than normal, there's a lot of redundancy built into the system, meaning that even eight times higher than normal, 10 times higher than normal is still would be considered safe in the scheme of things. It might be similar, for example, to getting a couple of X-rays. Now what it can do -- acute radiation sickness, if you get a high dose, and they get it -- and they're very close to the source, all the cells in your body that sort of replicate quickly -- think about the cells in your intestines, think about your hair, think about your skin, all those cell that are replicating quickly can be affected. Your bone marrow. So you're getting nauseated, you'll get fatigued, and you'll start to lose hair, you'll get rashes. Your bone marrow could be affected so your immune system will be compromised. That's a high dose of radiation very quickly. People who are further away getting smaller doses as a result may have more subtle sort of signs. They may get some of those signs but not be as severe. They may get, you know, concerns in the long run, decades down the later about increased cancer risk such as leukemia, such as thyroid cancer, which I was talking about earlier because of the radioactive iodine and its effects specifically on the thyroid gland. So you can really categorize, Anderson, the dosage and the distance. And as you get lower dosage and further distance the severity and the range of these types of effects start to decrease.</s>COOPER: Jim, when you hear that the government has evacuated an area of 20 kilometers around the Fukushima Daiichi plant, and they had extended that -- originally there have been a small amount and they may extended it. I mean are they planning for a worst-case scenario with that or does that seem conservative to you?</s>WALSH: Well, I think that's about right. They may have done -- perhaps they should have done it a little earlier but listen, Anderson, if you are pumping seawater into a nuclear power plant, essentially writing off the plant, then you're nervous. And when you're getting to that point you better take some action. You better evacuate people. And I -- so I think that was the proper course of action. Again, that doesn't mean we're going to have the nightmare scenario. There's still some lines of defense here. I started the day real -- at 5:30 this morning being worried because not only is it unit number one, it's Fukushima unit number three. They're now doing it with that. So that wasn't good news. But as the day has gone on, the news has improved somewhat so I'm a little more confident than I was before. But you don't wait until the last minute to evacuate people especially in a tsunami. You know after an earthquake. You have to start that process sooner and get ahead of the curve so I think they've acted properly.</s>COOPER: Again, Jim, we'll be calling on you, no doubt, a lot in the coming hours and no doubt in the coming days as well. We'll talk to Sanjay as well. As I say, we're on for these two hours live from Japan. When we come back we're going to take you back into Sendai, going to show you the latest from there on the rescue and recovery efforts, and also the long lines of people waiting for food trying to get food, trying to water. Surviving the quake, surviving the tsunami is one thing but then you have to continue living your life and just getting basic supplies. Gas is very, very difficult. We'll show you all of that ahead.