White House Sows Confusion About Trump's Condition
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Welcome back to a special, Saturday night, Special Coverage. I'm Chris Cuomo, you know me from CUOMO PRIME TIME. And I'm with you this Saturday night because we got big situations going on that demand our attention. We have more information on the President's health. It's trickling out, but there's a lot of inconsistent information. And it is hard to know what to believe. As a result, I cannot with confidence tell you that we know for sure how President Trump is doing against coronavirus. Let's listen to what a hospitalized President Trump told us himself. They tell us, tonight, this video was made. Here it is.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: They just didn't want to stay in the White House, I was given that alternative. Stay in the White House, lock yourself in. Don't ever leave. Don't even go to the Oval Office. Just stay upstairs and enjoy it. Don't see people. Don't talk to people and just be done with it. And I can't do that I had to be out front.</s>CUOMO: Now, that's a little confusing how we put it together for you. This is him explaining later in the video why he's been out on the Hastings campaigning, when he was told, you know, you should just stay in the Oval Office, stay in the White House. He's making the case that, no, I'm a leader. I have to confront the situation. Now earlier in the tape, he said he's doing better. He thinks the next few days will tell the story. But he's feeling good and he thanks everybody. Good indications. But this part of the video arguably matters more, because at some point, it can't just be about him. It's got to be about what his situation means to the rest of this country. And here's what's really clear in a very confusing situation. He should have stayed in the Oval Office. He should have stayed in the White House. That is what we were asking the rest of the country to do. Sure he's an essential worker, but how you do the job matters also. Instead, he went out and did exactly what we were asking everybody else not to do. And he did that because he said that the information was bogus, that the pandemic was a hoax. That masks were weakness, and everything was going to be fine. He said nothing ever comes from our events. Nobody gets sick. We don't know that that's true. And in fact, we now know it's not true based with what we're dealing with right now. In all likelihood, this President's flouting of the advice that he just admitted he was given. That made sense from every clinician and every expert under his control, now has him in the hospital. Please take that message to heart. He's the best evidence that what he was telling you about the pandemic was wrong. Now, we got to figure out what is right when it comes to what to understand about his own situation. Let's begin with White House Correspondent John Harwood, outside Walter Reed Medical Center. John, good to have you on with me, thank you for taking the opportunity to do so. Is it true for you as well, that this has been an unusual circumstance of conflicting information coming out from people who should be on the same page?</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. We're more than two days, Chris, from when we learned that the President had coronavirus. We still do not have a clear timeline of when he acquired it, when his diagnosis was confirmed. We don't have a clear explanation of his condition or his prognosis. We had this very confusing and comically evasive press conference by his doctor at Walter Reed today, where he attempted to paint a rosy view of the situation but wouldn't provide any details, wouldn't say how high his fever has been, wouldn't say whether he'd taken supplemental oxygen or though we subsequently confirmed that he did, didn't say whether he'd sustained any lung damage. After that, you had a White House official come out on background later identified by the AP and the New York Times as Mark Meadows, the Chief of Staff say, well, his vitals were of significant concern yesterday, and the course of his disease is going to be determined in the next 48 hours, not out of the woods, that sort of thing. Then finally, we got the videotape from the President himself tonight, four minutes long. And I thought that, and I'm interested in what you think, Chris, because you've known Donald Trump longer than I have, but I thought we could see a real note of vulnerability in that tape where he said, I'm starting to feel good, but you don't know, watch the next couple of days. I thought that was more revealing that moment than anything the doctor told us at the press conference today.</s>CUOMO: Well, usually, he understands something very well about messaging which is show no uncertainty. Say that things are true, whether they are or not, if you repeat it enough people will believe you. And certainly, his success to this point is testament to that. He has been qualifying things since he got sick. I think I'm going to be good. They, you know, they tell me this. I will see. That is an unusual level of qualifying for him. But I'll tell you what. He is not denying that he's sick. And as somebody who had it, everybody is different. And what I'm hearing about him does not match up with mine. When you're sick, you're going to know what, John, and this is a scary thing because nobody can give you great answers, even as president of the United States. I know who he's talking to. And they don't know things about this. So you get spooked fast, and that's going to show and anybody, I mean, he's a human being like everybody else. My bigger concern is what he's still insisting on saying, telling people, John, they told me, I should stay in the White House. They told me I should stay in the Oval Office. But no, a leader confronts the situation. That's why I went out and held rallies. It was probably the worst thing to do as a leader.</s>HARWOOD: Right. And there was a ton of baloney in that videotape as well. The whole idea about him being advised to stay in the White House, but he chose to go to the hospital. We know he doesn't like hospitals. He was reluctant to go. His aides wanted him to go, and that was the right decision. Because given the unpredictability of this illness, as you know better than almost anyone, you can take a turn very rapidly. And if you're a 74-year-old man who's overweight, it's a dangerous situation. And the right call was made. He was convinced to go. He was able to walk out under his own steam to Marine One, and head up here to Bethesda. So the right thing happened in the end, his description of how it happened was not quite right.</s>CUOMO: John Harwood, thank you so much. Good to be with you on the Saturday night. Appreciate it. All right. Let's bring in Dr. William Schaffner to understand this. Doc, as always, thank you for being ever present when I need you. First thing that is interesting, if anything about him being in tough shape is true, how about him walking out to Marine One? You know, I mean, you know, if he had problems with his blood oxygen and all these other things, he walked out there, you know, under his own power, gone on Marine One. That's got to mean something, right?</s>DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: It does mean something. But remember, Chris, this is a very sneaky infection. And one of the clinical characteristics that we've learned about it is, the patient can look much better than their blood oxygen concentration, and their X-ray. So he was looking pretty good at the time, but we really don't know what his blood oxygen concentration was at that time. The patient, in effect, can think you out, so you have to be very alert to follow blood oxygen concentrations, and the chest X-ray, and other aspects of just his well being an organ function. So just looking at the patient is not enough.</s>CUOMO: Good point, good point. I mean, anecdotally, you know, I was doing my show every night. I would be a sweaty mess afterwards. You know, sitting in the shower, trying to kind of get my composure back. So people can fake you out especially when they want to seem strong in the moment. And the President certainly wants to do that. Now, here's something I didn't deal with that certainly would have made me want to go to the hospital. If my blood ox, my blood oxygen level, had gone down to a point where someone like you was telling me I needed supplemental oxygen. That was the line for me. That's why I was doing those breathing exercises like crazy and trying everything I could to keep my lungs OK, because I know that's the tipping point with this. So the idea that we believe he needed supplemental oxygen, what does that tell you at a minimum?</s>SCHAFFNER: Well, if that is indeed true and it sounds as though it was, then he was in a somewhat precarious position, because that can be an early sign of going sideways, going downhill. And you will want the patient in the very best possible place. So everybody can respond to that appropriately. Going to the hospital was an absolutely appropriate decision. He went during the day. It was not an emergent circumstance. He got settled in, got hooked up to all the monitors, all the blood tests were being done. All the aides, the nurses, the doctors got to know them, examine him establish a good baseline, and they're ready then to deal if something happens to him.</s>CUOMO: Everybody says the exact same thing you're saying now. Every clinician I've spoken to says I absolutely would have done this. We would do it with everybody if we had the opportunity. If there's somebody who we're worried about, you know, if we, you know, obviously, when they have one president, you're going to treat him special. But it would be great if I could get everybody in there in a clinical setting, so I can do what I need to do in a moment's notice. So the White House just put out pictures of the President. Let's take a look. All right, here it is. Now, the timing on these, Lyla, can you tell me in the control room? When were these earlier today, I guess. So he's there working. Interestingly, doctor, they don't have him or, you know, he seems to be in the same clothes that he arrived in. I don't mean that in any kind of sarcastic way. I'm saying to be in the hospital, but be in a suit and jacket? Is that just because this is the President or do you think that, , you know, is that unusual?</s>SCHAFFNER: Oh sure, that's completely unusual. So you don't want to have to deal with the tie and buttons on your shirt if suddenly something happens. So, you know, you put on those horrible hospital gowns, because it's easy for people to get at you if they need to get at you very, very quickly. So this is the President being the president. I hope he's not in those all the time, frankly.</s>CUOMO: Right. And this is from today, the White House says, so what is the contrasting point to this? Well, it's a picture that we can draw with facts. The idea of where do you come down on this question, doctor, I want to word it the right way, of throwing everything you can at a case versus do no harm/let's know this isn't necessary. Regeneron's treatment, Remdesivir, which you're going to be in the hospital for. Doing that with the President, where are you in terms of that would only be something I would do if I had to versus sure I got access to it, why not? Can't hurt him?</s>SCHAFFNER: Chris, I think I can parse the two apart. The monoclonal antibodies, the Regeneron, that's a drug that's in trial for the present, at the present. Nothing has been proven. The early data look promising, used exactly at this time to try to prevent progression into that nasty second phase of this infection. That was something that occurred to many people, myself, also. I think that was a reasonable thing to do. Now, the Remdesivir, that came, I suspect, I don't know, because of a specific indication. If that blood oxygen did indeed go down, or if there were abnormalities on chest X-ray, those would have been specific indications for the use of that drug. That wouldn't have been speculative, that would have been indicated at that time.</s>CUOMO: Dr. William Schaffner, thank you very much. And I'm really trying to balance it. I really believe there's absolutely no percentage of being alarmist about this. And just, again, for context, my own case, everybody's case is different. I'm a different patient than President Trump. I had infiltrate, which is like shadow some kind of fluid in my lung when they took the X-ray. And those scary to hear, part of the virus, so even if that was there, and it became as the doctor is saying, indicative -- have a need to deal with the lungs and they had the access to Remdesivir, doesn't mean that he's in horrible shape, OK? So just take context within the information of content. Now, not out of the woods, it's the headline from the President's doctor tonight on his condition, spooked people. Listen, of course, he's not out of the woods yet. This is the real deal, this virus. This is why we don't want anybody to get it, because you don't know how it's going to progress. But we do know, the White House hasn't been being straight with us and it matters so much in times like now. The timeline doesn't make sense, and it has to for us. We have one president. We're going to lay out the facts as we know them, so we can start to put the information in your head, piece it together, and you'll see what we still need to know. Next.