Text Messages Revealed in Trump Impeachment Investigation
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: He argued against any of this information on the Bidens, saying that it probably was not credible. But we also know that the administration had a negative view of Ukraine. And that's what he was working against. In his opening statement yesterday, he said -- quote -- "In the course of that conversation, he referenced conversations with Mayor Giuliani. It was clear to me that, despite the positive news and recommendations being conveyed by this official delegation about the new president, President Trump had deeply rooted negative view on Ukraine about -- rooted in the past. He was clearly receiving other information from other sources, including Mayor Giuliani, that was more negative, causing him to retain this negative view," Brooke. So that just gives you a sense of what Volker said he was working against when it came to Rudy Giuliani and the president of the United States directly -- Brooke.</s>BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: And, of course, also how he spoke so highly of Joe Biden, as we mentioned a second ago. Lauren, you also have some new reporting about today's closed-door testimony by the intelligence community inspector general, Michael Atkinson. And this is the same guy who deemed the whistle-blower complaint credible and of urgent concern. So what has he told lawmakers?</s>FOX: Well, what he's telling lawmakers is that, essentially, he's walking them through the process of how he handled his complaint and how he went about corroborating it. We have now learned from two sources that what was turned over last night were documents related to how the ICIG went about corroborating that complaint. So I think that that's one of the key takeaways from today. But sources are also telling me this is mostly about process and that, so far, there aren't these big explosive moments in this hearing. But, of course, it's still ongoing. We will still keep you posted, Brooke, on exactly what comes out of this meeting.</s>BALDWIN: We know you will. Lauren Fox, thank you very much. Let's get you back to those text messages now and the people involved. Former U.S. special envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker handed them over to Congress. Volker resigned from his job just one day after the release of that whistle-blower complaint. There's also this man by the name of Gordon Sondland. He is the U.S. ambassador to the European Union. And before that, he donated a million dollars to President Trump's inaugural committee. The third name, just again for context, in all these texts, is Bill Taylor. Bill Taylor is effectively running the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine, since there is no permanent ambassador at this moment, but he has served in that role before. So, you know the players. Let's bring in these two. Elie Honig is a former federal prosecutor and a CNN legal analyst, and Samantha Vinograd is former senior adviser to the national security adviser under President Obama. And she is also a CNN national security analyst. So, shall we? Let's start with these text messages, and, Elie, just from a legal perspective, because the wording of these texts is very -- if Ukrainian President Zelensky does X, President Trump will do</s>Y. ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.</s>BALDWIN: So let's roll through each one. You guys can throw them up on the screen and you can tell me what they show us.</s>HONIG: So this is the most fun part of being a prosecutor, by the way, when you get a great batch of evidence like this, and you get to go and reconstruct who's who and what are they really saying? So this one -- people talk about a quid pro quo, which basically just means this for that, an exchange. And, here, they spell it out. The quid is investigate. And the quo is this visit to the White House. There are two different things offered at various times, the foreign aid and the visit to the White House. And you know they're connected because of that word assuming. Assuming means, if they do this, assuming that they investigate, then they will get the reward, which is the trip to the White House. That is about as close to a quid pro quo as you will ever see in real life.</s>SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, and I want to remind people what White House visits are normally offered for. The chief of staff and the national security adviser normally have policy requirements for inviting someone to the White House, not political or personal ones.</s>BALDWIN: Not used as leverage.</s>VINOGRAD: Correct. And so what this means, if this quid pro quo was offered to the Ukrainians or to the Chinese or anyone else, the wrong kind of leaders are probably showing up at the White House. You have to be willing to help President Trump aid and abet him in conducting a crime, soliciting foreign election interference, if you're going to walk through the White House store.</s>BALDWIN: Yes. OK, for the context on the White House visits. Next -- what's the next text? Do we have another text? Here we go.</s>HONIG: So this is the cover story in action. In the first slide, basically, they're talking about they understand there's a need. They got to get the story straight. Make sure I advise Z, the Ukrainian president, Zelensky, correctly as to what he should be saying. And then what follows in the next text, the next slide is essentially a draft. Here's what the cover story is going to be. And we were just talking about it. It's this idea that Donald Trump, he's just a corruption buster, and he just wants to clean everything up. And, of course, the reality is, there's only two cases he's ever had any interest in, which is Biden and Hillary Clinton.</s>VINOGRAD: Right. And, I mean, at this point, soliciting Rudy Giuliani's advice on a public statement of any kind, he's essentially replaced the press secretary months after she started. I drafted a lot of White House statements. You typically go to the experts, like our acting ambassador in Ukraine. You don't ask the president's personal lawyer for advice on a statement with a foreign leader. That's corruption until itself, because Rudy Giuliani obviously has a conflict of interest here.</s>BALDWIN: OK. And then I don't know if we have another text, or else I'm going to roll on to my next question. You guys show me. Yes, we've got another one.</s>HONIG: This is the best one. We have to do this one.</s>BALDWIN: Oh, this is the "Call me."</s>HONIG: This is as close as you're going to get to a smoking gun. I mean, Bill Taylor has this moment of candor, where he just lays it all out. "Are we saying that security assistance, the foreign aid and the White House meeting are conditioned on investigations?" conditioned, meaning you only get it if you do the investigations? And the response is this, "Call me," which is like, of course, but we don't put it in writing on text.</s>BALDWIN: And, also, aren't these encrypted? They're on encrypted lines of communication. Right?</s>HONIG: Sure. Law enforcement has ways to de-encrypt things, which apparently happened here.</s>BALDWIN: Right.</s>HONIG: But yet, look, whenever you see people involved in nefarious plan, someone is going to say, hey, let's take this offline. You see that elsewhere.</s>VINOGRAD: Eventually, although what was in the texts was worrisome unto itself.</s>HONIG: Yes.</s>VINOGRAD: But I have a bigger question. Why is our ambassador to the E.U. even working on this issue? Gordon Sondland is what we call a political appointee. He was appointed by President Trump. His portfolio is the European union. Here we have him delving into anti-corruption issues in Ukraine and serving really as Rudy Giuliani's secretary.</s>BALDWIN: He's not in his lane.</s>VINOGRAD: He's not in his lane. He's working on something ostensibly at the president's behest or Mick Mulvaney's behest, and clearly not doing his day job. And, again, what he already has in those text messages, the quid pro quo, the conversations with Giuliani, are damning onto themselves. Bill Taylor is a career diplomat. And he's the only one -- we haven't put this text up -- that says he would quit if security assistance did not move forward. We have heard -- we have not heard that from any other official.</s>BALDWIN: Let's get to this. At the U.N., we heard Zelensky say that he felt no pressure on the call, right? That's when he was sitting next to Trump week before last. And let me just read one of the texts. This is to your point from Bill Taylor, the acting -- rather, this is Bill Taylor, the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, that President Zelensky is -- quote -- "sensitive about Ukraine being taken seriously, not merely as an instrument in Washington domestic reelection politics." So, does that sound like pressure to you?</s>VINOGRAD: I think that Ukraine certainly wants to promote an image of independence. Ukraine, well before Zelensky, was an instrument of Russia. They want to show their independence. Zelensky is newly elected. And Zelensky also wants to show that he's making progress on real issues, like, for example, ending the war in Eastern Ukraine, and establishing his administration is not malleable by foreign influence. That's what he's focused on. He obviously doesn't want to upset President Trump. He knows that he's cut off security assistance to Ukraine previously. He's cut off foreign assistance to Central American countries. And he needs us, Brooke. He's between a rock and a hard place when it comes to keeping President Trump happy, but not looking like a puppet of the president's political agenda.</s>BALDWIN: And you wanted to make a point in response.</s>HONIG: Yes, very similar to that, exactly what Sam was saying. I have dealt with dozens of victims of extortion and bribery over the years, and almost never do they say, yes, I felt scared, yes, I was a victim. They're often too scared to say that. And, as Sam said, this is not an equal bargaining relationship here. Ukraine desperately needs this money that we have. We have the upper hand. There's no way the president's going to say, my knees were knocking and my teeth were chattering, I was so scared. That's not how things work in reality. The power dynamic and the words used really rule here.</s>BALDWIN: Elie and Sam, I like this team. Thank you guys very much.</s>HONIG: Thank you.</s>BALDWIN: The key witness in the middle of the scandal says he does not believe Joe Biden did anything wrong. And his testimony doesn't stop there. We have the transcript -- part of the transcript that we will read for you. Also, a former ambassador to Ukraine who once praised Joe Biden for his anti-corruption efforts weighs in on today's fast-moving developments and what he reads in all these text messages. And a closer look at how this is all being covered on conservative outlets like FOX and how that may play into the silence from so many Republicans. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We will be right back.