Interview with Congressman Ed Royce of California; Crisis in the Middle East
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And my concern is obviously that there's been a lot of misinformation generated in eastern Ukraine generally. This should snap everybody's heads to attention and make sure that we don't have time for propaganda. We don't have time for games. We need to know exactly what happened and everybody needs to make sure we are holding accountable who committed this outrage.</s>SMERCONISH: That was President Obama's take on the current crisis in eastern Ukraine. Joining me now is Republican Congressman Ed Royce, the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman, yesterday, Ambassador Samantha Power told the U.N. Security Council that there was credible evidence that pro-Russian supporters and their Russian associates were responsible. What additional information if any can you add to that question?</s>REP. ED ROYCE (R), CALIFORNIA: Well, w know from General Breedlove, who's the supreme commander for the NATO forces, that the Russians were training separatists on this equipment. And we also know that in the last few weeks, a tremendous amount of heavy equipment came over the borders, especially tanks, especially anti-aircraft weaponry and so forth as the Russians step up their operations in the east. They are panicked to move quickly because Poroshenko has been consolidating support in the east. And so, as people move towards the Ukrainian government, they are rather desperate to set back the advances being made by the Ukrainian elected government and I think this is unfortunately an unforeseen consequence of that.</s>SMERCONISH: So, to what extent then --</s>ROYCE: What we do know is they've shot down -- we know this because they've shot down several Ukrainian planes. And I think what's happened is a rather poorly trained separatist group here probably have inadvertently shot down an airliner and are now trying to cover this up and that's the part you see on the ground today.</s>SMERCONISH: To what extent does Vladimir Putin bear responsibility in light of what you've just told me?</s>ROYCE: Well, not only are the arms coming across the border, several generals or commanding officers are actually Russian. In the meantime, the prisoners that are taken, the Ukrainians, there was a Ukrainian pilot, a female pilot with a distinguished record, she is being held in jail in Russia. So, you can see how it is being micro managed from Russia, the KGB agents or their current equivalent are on the ground in eastern Ukraine. I was in Ukraine and I -- in the neighboring state, and they told me about taking into custody Russians that were there to foment an uprising. But the governor there, the civil society groups, the women's groups, the different groups that we met with on the ground told us they wanted the Russians to butt out. That this was the Russian-speaking region, but they wanted to be part of Ukraine. And, frankly, Poroshenko has now put forward a plan which will allow, you know, local autonomy. It's just not going to be part of Russia. That's the part that's unacceptable apparently to Putin. And that's why he is stepping up the activity here of pushing in the heavier equipment and volunteers coming in from Russia to fight.</s>SMERCONISH: What's the appropriate U.S. response?</s>ROYCE: Well, I think the entire international community will begin to move in tandem now. The degree of anger, you know, in East Asia and Europe and Central Asia towards the downing of the jetliner will probably consolidate the world opinion behind the peace plan put forward by President Poroshenko in Ukraine and put enormous pressure right now on the Russian government to back off. If we can get a cease-fire there alone, that would help us enormously, because that could help lead us to the next step which Poroshenko was willing to meet with the separatists and give them this regional autonomy. There is obviously a ready solution to this. All this is required is that Russia quit putting arms into that region.</s>SMERCONISH: Congressman, this is already the stuff of the fodder for domestic debate here in the United States. Meaning, it's being used for political purposes by critics of President Obama. Do you think that's appropriate?</s>ROYCE: Well, you know, I can remember the remarks of the former CIA director who was concerned that when we pulled out of Poland and the Czech Republic in terms of our intercept system that would defend that area against a launch from Iran and defend the United States, the criticism he had at the time is Putin will look at this and think we are weak and begin to take aggressive action. Now, who knows what's going on in Putin's mind? But the reality is that looking at the situation on the ground right now, clearly we need leadership. We need a strong position and we need Europe to be with us on this, I think, after this event. And given Merkel's anger and anger of others in Europe, I think it will solidify more support. But I think the president needs to get out and lead the international community and let's get Putin to back down here. Let's get him to cease and desist on aiding and abetting. He is the only reason this situation even exists is the fact that Russian forces are ensconced right now in eastern Ukraine. They need to get out.</s>SMERCONISH: Congressman Ed Royce, chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee -- thank you so much for your time. Another breaking news story that we're following. The ground incursion in Gaza. Israeli troops on the ground, flares lighting up the sky. We'll check in with Wolf Blitzer live from Jerusalem, next.