Interview With South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham; Interview With Illinois Senator Richard Durbin
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Big week, as the president wraps up his weekend with another round of golf.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President.</s>BASH: He's about to face his biggest battle yet.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It will be up to the Republicans to come through for America. It's up to the Senate.</s>BASH: Taxes and a looming government shutdown colliding together with just days to make a deal. Two tough senators, Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin, are both here next. And closing in? Michael Flynn stops sharing information with Trump's legal team.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would be concerned if I were perhaps in the White House.</s>BASH: Is Flynn ready to flip? Former U.S. attorney Preet Bharara weighs in on that. Plus, irritated Democrats. An ad campaign calls for Trump's impeachment.</s>TOM STEYER, FOUNDER, NEXTGEN AMERICA: This president is a clear and present danger.</s>BASH: And the Democratic mega-donor behind it doesn't care if the party wants him to stop.</s>REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: It's not some place that I think we should go.</s>BASH: Is Tom Steyer just playing into the president's hands? We will ask him live.</s>BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash, in for Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is stuffed. This morning, President Trump is wrapping up his Thanksgiving break at his Mar-a-Lago home in Palm Beach, Florida. The president hosted a traditional Thanksgiving dinner and enjoyed some time on the golf course, playing with pros Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus. This afternoon, the president returned right here to Washington, where he's facing what might be the busiest and most defining month of his first year in office. With no major legislative accomplishments to date, President Trump and congressional Republicans are now racing to pass tax reform before the end of the year. Complicating matters, the controversial special Senate election in Alabama on December 12. And there's also a looming government shutdown, if Congress is not able to pass a spending bill by midnight on December 8. Let's get right to two leading members of the U.S. Senate, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and the number two Democrat in the Senate, Dick Durbin of Illinois. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me this weekend. I want to start with taxes. Senator Graham, first to you, President Trump has promised tax reform by Christmas.</s>SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Right.</s>BASH: Some of your colleagues, Senator Corker, Senator Flake, for example, they have expressed concerns that this bill is going to make an even bigger hole in the deficit than there is now. So, are Republicans going to have the votes by the end of the month?</s>GRAHAM: Yes, I think so. I think what they are concerned about is that the personal tax cuts expire in 2025, and that's a bit of a gimmick. But we will get there because failure is not an option when it comes to the Republican Party cutting taxes. For every Republican senator, the fate of the party is in our hands, as well as that of the economy. The economy needs a tax cut, and the Republican Party needs to deliver. So, I think we will get there.</s>BASH: And, Senator Durbin, the tax bill would double the standard deduction for -- it would double it to $24,000 for a married couple. It would increase the child tax credit to $2,000 per child. I know there are things that you don't like in the bill, but those provisions would help working families, would they not?</s>SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL), MINORITY WHIP: For the rest of the story, though, there's a real problem, a trillion-and-a-half dollars added to the deficit, threatening Medicare and Social Security, tax breaks for the wealthiest people in America and the biggest corporations. Meanwhile, the tax breaks for working families, half of them will see a tax increase, half a tax break. Those disappear, as Senator Graham just mentioned. But the tax cuts for wealthiest people are permanent. That's just unfair, and that's why half of the American people are skeptical about this Trump tax plan.</s>BASH: Gentlemen, I want to turn to something that is looming. And that is, unless Congress acts, the federal government is going to run out of money in less than two weeks. Senator Durbin, members of your party are threatening to vote against the bill to fund the government unless Congress votes to protect dreamers. Those, of course, are children brought to the U.S. illegally by their parents. Is funding the government contingent on finding a legislative solution for dreamers?</s>DURBIN: Listen, there are a number of things that we have to do before the end of the year. And I think Senator Graham will agree with me. We heard on an earlier program right here on your network that we face the end of the Children's Health Insurance Program. The Community Health Care Clinic program, that's also expired. But we believe, Senator Graham and I do, that we have a fixable priority in the DREAM Act, a bipartisan solution to this problem to make sure that these young people have a chance to earn their way into citizenship. We can do this, and we can get it done before the end of the year.</s>BASH: Will that be a demand? Will you demand that that gets done in order to get your vote on funding the government?</s>DURBIN: Let me tell you, I'm not prepared to go home for the holidays until we get our work done.</s>BASH: Is that a yes?</s>DURBIN: I will just leave it at that.</s>BASH: I just want to make sure -- because -- make sure that our viewers know what we're talking about. It sounds like you're willing to risk veterans benefits, pay for government workers around the holidays in order to push through a DACA fix. Am I reading you right?</s>DURBIN: Well, I can tell you, here's the read that you should have. We have done precious little this year in the United States Senate. I think Senator Graham can point to the defense authorization bill as the only substantive bill we've considered. You know that, Dana. You follow this day to day. So, now we have three or four weeks to get some real work done. We believe the DREAM Act, Senator Graham and I believe we can put together a bipartisan coalition to pass it and make that part of the end-of-the-year effort.</s>BASH: Senator Graham, your fellow Republican senator Tom Cotton said that Republicans have definitely ruled out attaching DACA to the spending bill. Period, end of story, he said. You and Senator Durbin, as he just discussed, do have bipartisan legislation to protect dreamers. What is the holdup?</s>GRAHAM: Well, the way I look at the end-of-the-year bill, it is a chance to really do some good for the country as a whole, starting by funding the Defense Department more adequately. I'm not going to vote for a spending bill that doesn't dramatically increase defense spending. And I'm willing to increase non-defense spending of the NIH, the Corps of Engineers, the FBI, the CIA. We need border security. So, there's a deal to be done. Dick's right about this. For the DREAM Act, I think you could get strong border security and a break in chain migration. If you can put those three things together and put it on the end-of-the-year spending bill, that would be a heck of an accomplishment for 2017.</s>BASH: Well, Senator Durbin, would you go with that? If they -- if the Republican leadership agrees to put protections in for dreamers, would you go for border security and an end to chain migration?</s>DURBIN: I can tell you, when it comes to border security, we have signed up for that. Senator Schumer said that months ago. We believe that there are aspects of border security that Democrats and Republicans can agree on. When it comes to chain migration, bottom line -- and I have even spoken to Senator Cotton about this -- is, when these dreamers become citizens, they are not going to be second-class citizens. They are going to have the same rights as others in the United States. That's something that even Senator Cotton and I agree on.</s>BASH: One last question on this. Senator Graham, do you think a government shutdown is possible over this DACA issue?</s>GRAHAM: In Congress, anything's possible. I think it would be sad to miss this opportunity. The president has talked very warmly about the DREAM Act kids. Everybody believes the military's in a world of hurt. John McCain points out about the training accidents are no accidents, because we have underfunded the military for so long. Everybody believes we need more border security. I think most people believe we need to go from chain migration, family-based immigration to merit-based immigration. And I think most Americans want to give these DREAM Act kids a more certain life. So, let's do it in December. Let's do it for the good of the country. Let's take care of a lot of problems at one time to show the country we actually can function. I'm rather excited about the possibilities of legislating in December.</s>BASH: Nothing -- another thing, Senator Graham, coming up in December is a special election in Alabama. And, this week, President Trump seemed to offer support for the Alabama Senate candidate, Roy Moore, the Republican...</s>GRAHAM: Yes.</s>BASH: ... who is being accused by four women, including a 14-year-old girl at the time, of sexual assault, didn't rule out campaigning for him. And, Senator Graham, just this morning, the president sent a tweet on this issue. He said: "The last thing we need in Alabama and the U.S. Senate is a Schumer-Pelosi puppet who is weak on crime, weak on the border, bad for our military and our great vets, bad for our Second Amendment, and wants to raise taxes to the sky. Jones would be a disaster" -- Jones being the Democratic candidate. Senator Graham, you have called Roy Moore -- called on him to step aside. You have said he should be dealt with severely. Do you think the Republican Party leader, the president of the United States, should be telling voters to support -- to support Roy Moore?</s>GRAHAM: Well, that's a political decision by the president. He's definitely trying to throw a lifeline to Roy Moore. From a Republican point of view, I don't see what winning -- I don't know what winning looks like for Roy Moore. If he wins, you get the baggage of him winning, and it becomes a story every day about whether or not you believe the women or Roy Moore, should he stay in the Senate, should he be expelled. If you lose, you give the Senate seat to a Democrat at a time we need all the votes we can get. The moral of the story is, don't nominate somebody like Roy Moore who could actually lose a seat that any other Republican could win. And from a party perspective, we have got to look long-term, not short-term. And what I would tell President Trump, if you think winning with Roy Moore is going to be easy for the Republican Party, you're mistaken.</s>BASH: So, yes or no, is the president making a mistake here?</s>GRAHAM: That's up to him. I'm not going down the road he's going. That's up to the president.</s>BASH: OK, Senator Durbin, I want to ask you about multiple women now coming out and accusing your Democratic Senate colleague Al Franken of groping. Franken released a new statement saying that he crossed a line. He said that he understands that this is a problem and he's sorry. Now that more women have come forward, should Franken resign?</s>DURBIN: Listen, Al Franken has acknowledged what he did was wrong. And it was wrong. He's also submitted his whole case to the Senate Ethics Committee. I think that was the right thing to do. Let's have a hearing, an investigation. Let's let this really reach whatever conclusion it's going to reach, but through a due process. That, to me, makes sense. Others who have tried to run away through charges, you have to say Al Franken has faced it, and he's done it in a responsible way. I think it's the way to approach it.</s>BASH: A couple of quick questions for you both at top of the news. Senator Graham, you have been very outspoken about the need for sanctions against Russia in response to meddling in the U.S. election. The president reluctantly signed a bill that was passed in a bipartisan way in August. The deadline to impose those sanctions came and went. The administration appears to be dragging its feet. What are you going to do about it?</s>GRAHAM: Push him to impose sanctions. Russia is up to no good throughout the entire world -- 98-2, I think -- 97-2 was the vote in the Senate. The House was overwhelmingly supportive of sanctioning Russia. They did interfere in our election, and they need to pay a price. So I would urge the administration to impose the sanctions passed by the Congress, because, if you don't, you're creating a problem for yourself at a time that we need to focus on solving problems.</s>BASH: Senator Durbin, there's currently some confusion about who is running the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Mick Mulvaney was appointed by President Trump. Leandra English was tapped by the outgoing director. Who do you think is in charge?</s>DURBIN: Well, I asked -- of course, you can turn to Dodd and Frank, the co-sponsors of that legislation. And I read the provision. It says that, when the director steps aside, the deputy director shall be in charge of the agency, not may, shall be in charge. And so now there's an effort by Mick Mulvaney and the attorney general to really push him into this position so that he can take away their power. Remember, this was the agency that fined Wells Fargo $100 million for defrauding the people who were creating phony accounts. It's a watchdog agency. Wall Street hates it like the devil hates holy water. And they're trying to put an end to it with Mr. Mulvaney stepping into Cordray's spot. But the statute is specific, it's clear, and it says that the deputy shall take over.</s>BASH: Senator Graham, finally, who do you think is in charge of the consumer protection agency?</s>GRAHAM: I think the president's on good ground here to appoint somebody under the vacancy statute. In terms of the agency, it's the most out-of-control, unaccountable federal agency in Washington, really no oversight at all. They can get into everybody's business. I don't think they add much at all to consumer protection. They sure add a lot to increasing costs for midsize banks throughout the country that had nothing to do with the financial collapse. So, I hope it's Mick Mulvaney, and I hope he will ride herd on these folks.</s>BASH: OK. We definitely didn't end on a bipartisan note there.</s>BASH: But we appreciate the two of you, Democrat and Republican, coming on together. It was a great discussion. And thank you both very much. And happy Thanksgiving.</s>GRAHAM: Thank you.</s>DURBIN: Thanks, Dana.</s>GRAHAM: Thank you.</s>BASH: Is former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn working on a deal with Robert Mueller? And should the White House be worried? Former U.S. attorney Preet Bharara is here to talk about that next. Plus, now that Thanksgiving is over, the president is ready to make Christmas great again.