More Americans Expected to Leave Lebanon Tomorrow
BLITZER: You're back in THE SITUATION ROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Tonight hugs and relief in Cyprus where hundreds of Americans arrived just a short while ago escaping the warfare between Israel and Hezbollah militants in Lebanon. The group cruise ship The Orient Queen led off a stepped-up evacuation of U.S. citizens from Lebanon. Other new developments happening right now, the Israeli military says it used 23 tons of bombs to attack a Hezbollah leadership bunker in south Beirut, but Hezbollah denies that, saying a mosque was struck and no one was hurt. On the diplomatic front, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice heads to New York tomorrow for talks with the U.N. secretary-general. On Friday, she'll be briefed by a U.N. team that has been meeting with Israeli and Lebanese officials. The Mideast escalation appears to have no clear end in sight. But what would it take to stop the bloodshed on both sides? And joining us now from Dubai is the president of the National Dialogue Party of Lebanon and an old friend Fouad Makhzoumi. Fouad thanks very much. I know you're trying to get back into Lebanon yourself, not very easy. But give us your immediate assessment. How do the Lebanese get out of this mess that the country is in right now?</s>FOUAD MAKHZOUMI, NATIONAL DIALOGUE PARTY OF LEBANON: Definitely we have a human catastrophe on our hands. Israel has aligned itself with the international community and the United Nations Security Council, implementing the U.N. Resolution 1559. Hezbollah definitely has aligned itself with Syria and Iran. And really what we see in Lebanon is a proxy war, trying to each one buy a seat around that table whenever that big deal is going to come.</s>BLITZER: Who do you blame for the current crisis?</s>MAKHZOUMI: There is no doubt that Hezbollah started it by kidnapping these two soldiers. But there is no way we can justify the destruction that Israel is pursuing at the moment in trying to destabilize the government. They're trying to create the status quo on the ground, which is really all it's doing is alienating the Lebanese people. Already we have half a million displaced from the south and really the human misery is beyond anybody's imagination.</s>BLITZER: I want to get back to that in a moment because I know you have family and good friends who are stuck in Lebanon right now. But what about this call for some sort of international stabilization force, a new international peacekeeping force? Can that get the job done in the south and disarm, disband this militia, Hezbollah?</s>MAKHZOUMI: I think the situation really is a function whether Israel can destroy the infrastructure of Hezbollah or not. If they can win, definitely what is being proposed at the moment, is the only solution. My biggest worry is that if this thing is going to prolong beyond the one week that the United States has given Israel, I believe the situation will really get out of hand.</s>BLITZER: When you say get out of hand, elaborate a little bit. Will this spread to a wider regional war, maybe even involving Syria?</s>MAKHZOUMI: Already the tension between the Sunnis and the Shiites, similar to what we have in Iraq, is already rising. And already Iran has made a statement saying that they would like somehow to be involved in whatever settlement is there. Unfortunately, the Lebanese government, as much as it's trying to spread the sovereignty over the whole country, which is -- that's the only way it can go about it. But the only problem is it didn't have a proxy on behalf of the Hezbollah and they are partners in the government in order to achieve that at the moment.</s>BLITZER: Fouad, let me get back to a point that you may have been alluding to earlier. I just want to get a clearer thought from you. Is it good for the future of Lebanon that the Israelis are trying to destroy as much of Hezbollah's rockets and military capability as possible?</s>MAKHZOUMI: There is no doubt. Lebanon can only survive with one government and one armed force in Lebanon. But unfortunately, at this stage, the government is the weaker of two links. And that partnership that was established between Hezbollah and the government after the elections in 2005, really it was so ambiguous to the point that Hezbollah now really is in a position that they can dictate terms whereby the government is so weak and they cannot do much about it.</s>BLITZER: What do you want the United States to do? The secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice specifically, she's planning on heading out to the region in the next few days.</s>MAKHZOUMI: Wolf, you know, my position has been and my dialogue party has been from the beginning, we have ignored the peace process for so long. And really this is the only currency that any opposition in the Arab world can use or has used in order to establish political aims. My belief that if the United States is so genuine about trying to establish peace, and stop this human catastrophe, we need to reactivate the peace process. We need to bring everybody to the table. After all, the United States is the only superpower and there is no problem of negotiating with everybody.</s>BLITZER: And you want the U.S. to be talking directly to President Bashar Al-Assad in Syria?</s>MAKHZOUMI: Unfortunately, what we have heard over the microphone over the lunch in the G8 in St. Petersburg, it is very clear that most of the western world, especially the G8, recognizes that Syria and Iran has to be involved somehow, directly or indirectly. And that was when we overheard President Bush saying that he would like Kofi Annan to tell President Assad in order to stop whatever is going on that part of the world.</s>BLITZER: Fouad Makhzoumi, good luck to you, good luck to your family and friends in Lebanon. In fact, good luck to all of the people of Lebanon under these very, very trying circumstances. We will continue this conversation down the road.</s>MAKHZOUMI: Thank you, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: So are we talking days, weeks or more? How long does Israel think it will take to get what it wants?</s>BLITZER: Joining us now is Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, Dan Gillerman. Mr. Ambassador, thank you very much. What's your government's assessment? What's your assessment right now? How much longer will the fighting go on?</s>DAN GILLERMAN, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: Well, the -- unfortunately, the fighting will go on for as long as necessary for us to finish the job. We cannot allow ourselves to return to a point where the Hezbollah, with its lethal arsenal of weapons, will be able, at whim, to exercise terror, both towards us and towards Lebanon, and destabilize the whole region. So, we have to finish the job. We have to see Hezbollah totally disarmed. We have to see the government of Lebanon exert its authority and sovereignty over the whole of Lebanon, and deploy its forces in the south, before we can stop this operation.</s>BLITZER: Yesterday, we heard from the former Israeli prime minister, Ehud Barak, who suggested, it could last another week, perhaps two. Is that a rough assessment that you share?</s>GILLERMAN: Well, who am I to argue with Ehud Barak? But I -- I don't think it would be very wise to put a time frame on to it. But this is certainly not a matter of hours, unfortunately, not even a matter of days. I mean, anybody who witnesses the enormous magnitude of the arsenal of weapons that has been accumulated by the Hezbollah, with weapons continuing to be shipped to them -- and, only yesterday, did we stop additional shipments from Syria -- with the -- with Iran funding the Hezbollah, to the sum of $100 million, the Hezbollah, at the end of the day, is the bloody finger on the long arms and twisted minds of both Iran and Syria. We cannot allow this cesspool to fester on our border and to cause so much damage, both to us and to Lebanon. And, you know, once you start operating on ex -- excising a cancerous growth, you don't stop in the middle, and sew the patient up, and say, OK, live with the other half until it kills you. We have to make sure that Hezbollah is totally excised, before we can discuss any kind of solution.</s>BLITZER: Well, if that's the goal of the Israeli military, that sounds, at least to this outside observer, it's going to take a lot longer than a week or two.</s>GILLERMAN: Well, it may. And this outside observer is a great expert on the Middle East. And I would never argue with you, Wolf. But it could, I think, last longer. Everybody realizes that the Hezbollah has prepared, over the last five years, over 13,000 rockets. It is all over Lebanon. It is totally impossible to distinguish between Hezbollah and the -- and Lebanon. As the Lebanese ambassador said only yesterday, Hezbollah is everywhere. It is part of Lebanese society. That's what makes it so difficult. That's what makes it so really horrible to deal with. But that's also what makes it so necessary to deal with.</s>BLITZER: The secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, is going to be at the United Nations, meeting with Kofi Annan, tomorrow night in New York. What do you want her to do, because she's planning on going to the region?</s>GILLERMAN: Well, I -- I would -- it would be presumptuous of me to tell the secretary of state what to do. I totally respect her judgment. And I'm sure that she will do what she thinks is best first for the United States. But I am sure she also has the interests of Israel at heart. But I think the secretary realizes, like most of the world -- and I can tell you that, even at the United Nations, which hasn't always been the most hospitable and sympathetic body to Israel, I can feel a lot -- a lot of understanding -- if not sympathy, then at least understanding -- for what we're doing. And maybe that is because the rest of the world understands that we're doing its work for it. We're fighting terror. We're fighting a lethal, ruthless organization, which, today, fired rockets at Nazareth, and killed two 3- and 9-year-old children. We thought they only wanted to kill Israelis and Jews. It seems they don't care who they kill. They -- they target Muslims. They target Christians. This horrible, torturous body has to be excised from the heart of Lebanon and from the body of our region. And I hope that the secretary -- secretary of state shares that view, and will do exactly what is necessary to see that Resolution 1559 is implemented, that the Hezbollah is disarmed, and that Lebanon finally becomes a free and prosperous country, living in peace, side by side with Israel.</s>BLITZER: We're almost out of time, Mr. Ambassador. But, in the process of trying to achieve your military objectives, Lebanon's prime minister, Fouad Siniora, said you're destroying his country; you're destroying the infrastructure. More than 300 Lebanese civilians have been killed. That -- that's what he said earlier today. And -- and -- and the argument is that Israel's response to the kidnapping and killing of its soldiers has been disproportionate. What do you say to your critics?</s>GILLERMAN: I -- I agree with some of our critics, who may claim that our response has been disproportionate, only for the simple reason that, had they been attacked the way we were, their response would have been far harsher. And I know which countries I'm talking about. As to the prime minister of Lebanon, I think he has only himself to blame. He has been asked, demanded, beseeched by the international community, by the Security Council, by the Quartet, to see to it that the Hezbollah is disarmed, that Resolution 1559, that calls for exactly that, is implemented. He has allowed his country to be taken hostage, to be raped by tyrants in the north and by terrorists in the south. And the fact that Lebanon today is suffering is not something we wanted. We have great respect for Lebanon. We have no quarrel or fight with Lebanon, but when you have a country infiltrated, raped and held hostage to such extent by a proxy of Iran and Syria, that is the price that unfortunately, also the Lebanese people are paying. We are trying to minimize hurting civilians, but when Hezbollah uses civilians as human shields, sometimes civilians will get hurt.</s>BLITZER: Ambassador Dan Gillerman, Israel's Ambassador to the United Nations, thanks very much. And just ahead, Hezbollah here at home. The group is believed to actually have ties to dozens of US cities. We're going to show you why the FBI is sending out a warning to local law enforcement. Plus, hundreds of people are moving to Israel right now in spite of the fighting. They will tell us why in their own words. Stay with us.