Mass Kidnapping in Iraq; Should Bush Administration Ask Iran for Help?
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening, everybody. Thanks so much for joining us. There's some important news coming into U.S. -- into us, that is, here at CNN all the time. And, every night, we choose the top stories. Tonight: mayhem in Iraq -- a wave of brazen kidnappings targeting educators and teachers this time. Are things desperate enough to ask Iran for help? And a shocking "Top Story" in crime -- parents on trial for keeping children in cages. How can they claim they did nothing wrong? And on to tonight's "Top Story" in science -- a big shakeup, some amazing pictures of what a major earthquake can do to a house like yours. We have picked the kidnapping of dozens of people in Baghdad as our "Top Story" tonight. Right now, all of Baghdad's universities are shut down because of this attack. It happened at a research institute. Dozens of gunmen in police uniforms surrounded the building, rounded up as many as 100 people, and then drove off with them. Just a couple hours ago, we got word that most of the hostages have been freed. Michael Ware in Baghdad has the very latest tonight on that violence. So, Michael, what's the latest on these kidnappings?</s>MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, it has been quite a remarkable day here in Baghdad. I mean, what started this morning with a mass kidnapping here in the capital has ended just a few hours ago in the middle of the Baghdad night, with the Ministry of Interior saying most of the hostages who were taken earlier in the day have been released. Now, this whole affair began at 10:00 a.m., Baghdad time, when, according to the Iraqi minister for higher education, in a nationally televised address to parliament, said that as many as 80 gunmen in army or police uniforms surrounded and then entered a research institute, segregating men from women, locking the women in a room, and taking an unknown number of the men away in more than 20 vehicles. Now, throughout the day, speculation continued as to who was behind this. And, also, the numbers of men who had been taken varied, according to government officials, as the day evolved. We heard as few as 40, as many as 150. What we have now heard from the Ministry of Interior is that most of those taken, these 40 to 150, have been released -- Paula.</s>ZAHN: And there is still strong suspicion at this hour that Shiite militias had something to do with these kidnappings -- the U.S. government putting tremendous pressure on the Iraqi government to clamp down on them. Will it make any difference at all?</s>WARE: Well, I mean, this could be a great test. I mean, this may be a very illustrated kind of event. Once we know what happened behind the scenes, should we ever find out, it can tell us a lot about the relative power of the prime minister vs. these militias, most of which are buried within his government. This could have been a victory politically for the prime minister, or this may have been some other kind of negotiations sorted out behind closed doors. So, at this stage, we don't know what impact it is going to have. Until we know who did it, until we can rule out Sunni insurgents, then, honestly, there's going to be more questions to be asked than there are answers.</s>ZAHN: And we will come back to you if we get any of that information nailed down. Michael Ware, thanks so much for the update. The situation in Iraq has reached the point that British Prime Minister Tony Blair says it is now time to ask Iran to help by ending its support for extremists. But the Bush administration refuses to talk with Iran until it stops its nuclear program. Our Aneesh Raman is in Tehran, and is one of the few Western reporters inside that country.</s>ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iran's president was smiling today, his confidence visible, as he announced, Iran expects to be producing nuclear energy by February, despite protests from the U.S. and around the world.</s>MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We will commission some 3,000 centrifuges by this year's end. We are determined.</s>RAMAN: But Ahmadinejad's confidence goes far beyond nuclear energy. The Iranian president insisted, his country will become a nuclear power soon, and that Western nations, especially the U.S., will have to sit down with Iran on its terms.</s>AHMADINEJAD (through translator): Today, the Iranian nation possessions the full nuclear fuel cycle. And time is completely running in our favor, in terms of diplomacy.</s>RAMAN: Iran's president leaves little doubt he's looking to dethrone America's dominant influence in the Middle East. And with Iraq's growing sectarian violence, Ahmadinejad is betting the U.S. will have to deal, one on one, with a country it hasn't had diplomatic relation with since Americans were held hostage there in 1979. But he made it clear he won't just come to the table because he's asked.</s>AHMADINEJAD (through translator): If they fix their behavior toward us, we will have a dialogue with them. But they have their own way of thinking. Think really they own the world. They always sort of look down on you.</s>RAMAN: He says Iran speaks from a position of strength. It has built alliances over the years with groups like Lebanon's Hezbollah and Palestinian Hamas. And Iran sits on some of the world's largest oil reserves. It has all built toward this, a defining moment, that could establish Iran, instead of the U.S., as the dominant player in Middle Eastern affairs. That desire is widespread in this country, even among the president's critics -- at this reformist newspaper, one question for Americans.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Iran accepts that the U.S. is a superpower. But, every time Iran's power is discussed, the U.S. portrays it as a threat.</s>RAMAN: For the U.S., Iran isn't just a threat. Although Iran denies it, the U.S. says it is a state that sponsors terror by sending weapons to Iraq, Lebanon, and the Palestinian territories. And Iran is still pushing ahead with uranium enrichment, in open defiance of the U.N.</s>ZAHN: So, Aneesh, what is the -- the belief there, that, if there are ever going to be direct talks, that Iran will offer very distinct preconditions?</s>RAMAN: Yes, exactly, which is why, at the moment, Paula, it seems at an impasse. Iran has said, both on the nuclear front -- and they have lumped it now into any talks over Iraq -- that they won't talk to the U.S., unless the U.S. backs off pressure over its nuclear program. The Bush administration has shown -- shown no sign that they will do that. The big question that the Bush administration faces is, what do they fear more? Do they need desperate help in Iraq enough to get Iran involved, and, in doing so, create a new superpower in the Middle East and mitigate any pressure that might exist on the country to stop its nuclear program? Full-steam ahead from Iran's government on its nuclear program -- no sign they are going to back down -- Paula.</s>ZAHN: I know you have had chance to talk to a number of Iranian citizens. What do they have to say about this perceived newfound power on the world stage?</s>RAMAN: It is interesting. There's a huge disconnect between the people and the leadership here. The people aren't as concerned with how Iran is perceived in the world. What they are concerned with is the economy here that is languishing in unemployment and high inflation. One guy, Babak (ph), an engineer who I spoke with a few days ago, when we rode a bus around Tehran, pretty much put it the best I have heard it. We want, he said, Iran and the U.S. to talk, not because it raises Iran's stature, but because the U.S. could help Iran's economy. Iran's president was voted in to fix the economy, hasn't done it yet. The pressure is mounting for him to do so -- Paula.</s>ZAHN: All right, Aneesh Raman, thanks so much. So, is it time for the U.S. to reach out to our so-called enemies, like Iran, to help end the war in Iraq? Joining me now for a "Top Story" panel, former Army Green Beret Major Bob Bevelacqua, and Mara Rudman, a former national security adviser to President Clinton, now a senior fellow at the Center For American Progress, Robert Pollock, senior editorial writer for "The Wall Street Journal," who has also filed many stories from Iraq. Good to have all three of you with us. Major, do you think it is a smart thing for the United States to engage in direct talks with Iran and Syria?</s>MAJOR BOB BEVELACQUA (RET.), FORMER ARMY GREEN BERET: Absolutely, Paula. And the reason I say that is because we haven't done that in the past. And look at what it has got us. I believe that communication is the best way of fixing most broken relationships, whether it is between two countries or between a husband and wife. If you don't talk, go to the lawyers, because you are going to get a divorce. We have got to engage other nations, whether we like the leadership or not. Even if we agree to disagree, we have got to have some type of dialogue.</s>ZAHN: Are we talking about broken relationships here, Bob, or out-and-outright enemies of the United States?</s>ROBERT POLLOCK, SENIOR EDITORIAL WRITER, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, I think we're talking about outright enemies. And that doesn't mean, of course, we can't talk. Look, who -- who -- who could have anything against that? The question is, you know, what do we expect to get going in, and what are we prepared to give up in -- in -- in order to get that? And I think the Iranians are clearly intent on moving forward with their nuclear program. And, if -- if the -- if the price of an agreement is for us to say, basically, well, we don't care about that, that doesn't seem like a very fair deal to me.</s>ZAHN: But that's not going to happen. And -- and the...</s>POLLOCK: Well, no, it's not going to happen.</s>ZAHN: ... Bush administration has made that pretty darn clear.</s>ZAHN: That's a nonstarter.</s>POLLOCK: They made that clear, which -- which leads me to -- to the question again: Why do people think we are going to get anything very much out of talking to Iran?</s>MARA RUDMAN, FORMER DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER TO PRESIDENT CLINTON: Because there's a lot of things...</s>ZAHN: And that's...</s>ZAHN: That's what I want to ask Mara. What is there to yield from any direct talks with these two countries?</s>RUDMAN: Well, there's a number of things that -- that the Iranians are looking for, as -- as your reporter made clear, that the Iranian people are desperate on the economic front. With respect to Iraq, there are a number of issues there that are on the table. And, in fact, it is why Secretary -- former Secretary of State Baker has put out there the very real possibility of engaging with Iraq -- with Iran and with Syria, with respect to Iraq. And I think that we can do that, as the United States, and still stay very firm, with respect to the nuclear issue, regardless of what the Iranians say about it. And I think it is a proposal that we need to be entertaining in a very serious way, without, for one second, reducing our strong position with respect to Iranians' nuclear capacity. And I think that Prime Minister Blair is in the same place on that.</s>ZAHN: So, Major, what do you think the consequences are of not holding these kind of talks that Mara just mentioned?</s>BEVELACQUA: Status quo, Paula, no movement, a very stagnant situation in Iraq. And I -- you know, let -- let's -- let's just lay it out on the table. Iran and Syria have been actively involved in creating problems in Iraq and destabilizing the region. They are activity involved. They are laundering money. They're training, assisting, advising terrorists and insurgents. They're shipping in IEDs. We should put lay that out on the table and say, guys, we know what you have been up to. Here's the proof. Let's have a discussion about that.</s>ZAHN: Well, they know we know that, right, Bob?</s>POLLOCK: Sure.</s>BEVELACQUA: Sure. Well, how could they know that? We -- we never -- we have never confronted them directly on that, because there's no political dialogue.</s>POLLOCK: Well, there is plenty of political dialogue. We actually have diplomatic relations with Syria. We talk to them all the time. We have got nothing out of...</s>ZAHN: You're not talking about top-level diplomatic...</s>BEVELACQUA: We don't talk to them all the time.</s>POLLOCK: There is top-level diplomatic dialogue with...</s>BEVELACQUA: What planet are you on?</s>POLLOCK: ... with Syria. They have an embassy here. We have an embassy there. There's plenty of...</s>RUDMAN: And -- and our ambassador...</s>POLLOCK: Syria -- there's nothing new to be done with Syria. On Iran, we have had plenty of dialogue, through the European Union.</s>BEVELACQUA: And that attitude has gotten us into the situation that we're in right now. That is -- that's the staunch Bush line that has gotten us in this position we're in right now.</s>RUDMAN: Our ambassador has been out of Syria for, what, how long now? For -- for some period of time.</s>BEVELACQUA: Kind of hard to talk when you don't have an ambassador in country.</s>ZAHN: What about that, Bob?</s>POLLOCK: We have normal diplomatic relations with Syria. They have an embassy here. Look, Warren Christopher, in the 1990s, went to Syria something like two dozen times to get them to be helpful on Israeli-Palestinian peace process. What did he get for it? Nothing. We have -- you know, we have talked to them about Iraq as well. What have we gotten for it? Nothing. Look, I'm not against talking to them. I'm just saying, don't get your hopes up. I don't expect much.</s>ZAHN: And -- and, Major, a quick final thought on what the best thing we -- is that we could hope for coming out of these kinds of talks.</s>BEVELACQUA: The only thing I'm hoping for is somebody finally wakes up and said, we should be launching a counterinsurgency campaign in Iraq. It's broken. It's not a conventional war. It's an insurgency. The only way you fight that is with a counterinsurgency. And I hope the Iraq Study Group gets that. We have got to do a counterinsurgency.</s>ZAHN: Well -- well, we're just beginning to see the faint outlines of what that group may have to offer. And we will continue to report on that in the days to come. Major Bevelacqua, thank you. Mara Rudman...</s>RUDMAN: Thank you.</s>ZAHN: Robert Pollock...</s>POLLOCK: Thank you.</s>ZAHN: ... glad to have you all three of you together.</s>BEVELACQUA: Thank you.</s>RUDMAN: Thanks.</s>ZAHN: We are going to move to tonight's "Top Story" in politics: a stampede for the White House. Out of more than a dozen men and one very-high profile woman, who really who has a chance? And, then, later, the "Top Story" in crime -- two foster parents on trial for child endangerment, how can they say they put their kids into cages to protect them?