Gadhafi Regime Tossing Out Journalists
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news -- good evening, everyone -- from the White House, where an emergency budget meeting is going on right now between President Obama, Vice President Biden, House Speaker John Boehner, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. They have been trying to come up with an agreement that will keep the government running. We're watching a live shot location where microphones have set up. We believe the participants, including maybe even the president, might speak after this meeting. Without a budget deal, parts of the federal government will shut down about 50 hours from now. The meeting started about 45 minutes ago. As I said, we anticipate hearing from some of the players tonight, maybe even the president , we're told. We're watching those microphones very carefully. Senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash joins us live from Capitol Hill. Dana, what is the likelihood of an actual deal coming out of this tonight?</s>DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Going into this, I was told by sources in both parties, Anderson, that it is not -- don't look for it, that it is not that likely. We should say miracles do happen. They have been in this room now, as you said, for about 50 minutes and I was just told by sources I was e-mailing with that the meeting is still going on. There was we were told some progress made here on Capitol Hill with Democratic and Republican leadership aides, who were trying to find -- come closer to an agreement on really the key issues we're talking about here, which is how much spending to cut, where to cut from, and some very big differences over policy, social policy and economic policy. They have to figure out how to bring all of that together and they have to do it in the next two days. So they needed the president, they needed these leaders to sit down around a table face to face to try to get closer together on it. But we're told probably not going to be a deal tonight. We could be surprised.</s>COOPER: We will be watching very closely. Dana, we will have more with you and others coming up. We will have a lot more on the budget showdown in the program tonight and the possible shutdown. But we have more breaking news tonight, this out of Libya. Apparently, upset with some of the media coverage the Gadhafi regime is getting, they are now planning on expelling a number of reporters from Tripoli. Initially, 27 were identified by Gadhafi officials. They were told -- those 27 were told they would have to leave Tripoli, leave the country. Then that number was apparently cut to eight. We're not yet certain who the eight are, nor is it clear why 27 suddenly became eight or why those eight were chosen. The regime obviously not transparent and never has been. Another sign of that, former GOP Congressman Curt Weldon is still waiting to meet with Gadhafi in Tripoli. That's him on the right of your screen. He was invited to meet with Gadhafi. He said he came to urge him to give up power. Now, after waiting all day to speak with him, he's been offered a meeting tomorrow with the Libyan prime minister, but not with Gadhafi. Mr. Weldon, by the way, has met Gadhafi a number of times, was part of a congressional delegation the Libya in 2004. As for Gadhafi himself, he sent a letter today to President Obama. It is rambling, barely coherent, and shot through with typos which we're showing for you now on the screen. "We endeavor and hope," he writes, "that you will gain victory in the new election campaigne." That's with an E at the end of campaign. Quote: "You are a man who have enough courage to annul a wrong and mistaken action." He goes on, "Our dear son, Excellency, Baraka Hussein Abu oumama, your intervention is the name of the U.S." -- sorry -- yes, "Your intervention is the name of the U.S. is a must, so that NATO would withdraw finally from the Libyan affair." Apparently, no one has the guts to proofread or fact-check the Libyan dictator. As we said, a happening, a lot of moving parts to the story tonight. Joining us now, Nic Robertson in Tripoli, here in New York, Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS," and Princeton University's Anne-Marie Slaughter. Until recently, she served as director of policy planning at the State Department. Nic, what is the latest, first of all, with former Congressman Weldon? The meeting didn't happen. He flew all the way thinking he was going to meet with Gadhafi. Is he just sitting, cooling his heels?</s>NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think cooling his heels is perhaps all he can do at the moment. Certainly understand that he's frustrated that he didn't get this meeting, invited here, meeting with the government chief of staff, or at least Moammar Gadhafi's chief of staff, a very senior government official here, but it hasn't translated into that meeting he was expecting. And it puts him in a very, very awkward position. There's some sense that maybe the op-ed that he wrote in "The New York Times" before he arrived here could have put the leader's back up a little bit, coming out, getting ahead of the they, if you will. But this is Moammar Gadhafi, perhaps the way that many people remember him here, completely unpredictable and Mr. Weldon isn't the first person that this leader has kept waiting -- Anderson.</s>COOPER: Anne-Marie Slaughter, are Congressman Weldon's proposals even plausible? How likely is it something actually would come out of this?</s>ANNE-MARIE SLAUGHTER, DEAN, WOODROW WILSON SCHOOL OF PUBLIC AND INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AT PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Well, I think you have to see it as an opening bargaining position. There are different positions coming out of different people. The Gadhafi regime itself presented positions both through Saif and then the deputy foreign minister has been in Athens and in Ankara. Their starting position is essentially that Gadhafi and Saif will preside over a democratic transition. Now, the details of the proposal that Congressman Weldon has actually says, no, maybe Saif would be part of some kind of council, but really it would be the rebels who would be in charge of leading to elections and there would be U.N. involvement. I think you have to see both of these as opening bids in a negotiation that has not yet actually kind of gotten going.</s>COOPER: Fareed, when you look at sort of this big picture, this rambling letter that he sent to President Obama, what do you make of what's going on in Libya? Where do you see this going now?</s>FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: My sense, Anderson, is the big picture is Gadhafi is feeling the pressure. There is no way -- think about the alternative. There's no way if he felt that the military balance was moving in his favor or was strengthening, that he would be making any of these overtures. The letter to the president, the invitation to Weldon, the overtures that they have made, even the conversation about what kind of post-Gadhafi era would happen, none of this would be happening.</s>COOPER: You don't think this could just be gamesmanship, playing for time?</s>ZAKARIA: No, no, I don't think that, because there is no point. Time is not on his side in that sense. Clearly the sense -- one of the things that's happened here is it really is an international effort. So the noose is tightening. They're running out of funds. Of course, they have lots of money, but at the end of the day there's only so many places you can buy elicit weaponry from. There are only so many places you can sell oil to. All those things are closing in on them and they're trying to find ways to come up with a workable exit. Now, the plans they have are pretty good for the Gadhafi family. So it's understandable that they're trying to make the best of it. I think Congressman Weldon is making a huge mistake. He should not be engaged in this.</s>COOPER: You think he's in over his head?</s>ZAKARIA: He's in over his head, frankly. It's not -- there are elements of the U.S. law he might be violating. This should be conducted by the U.S. government. This should be done with appointed emissaries of the president and the White House. It is not appropriate for him to be there. The most important thing, however, is clearly the Libyan regime is feeling the pressure. It is all the more reason why the White House should just stay the course, not do much more than they're doing, not do much less than they're doing.</s>COOPER: Anne-Marie, do you agree with that, that they are feeling the pressure?</s>SLAUGHTER: I completely agree with Fareed's analysis that he's feeling the pressure, absolutely. What you saw initially was, you know, they -- we stopped him. NATO stopped him militarily. You have got the military situation to a place where now the diplomacy can really kick in and absolutely he's feeling the pressure. But I'm not sure I agree that Congressman Weldon being there is such a bad thing. We have sent an official emissary. The U.S. government has sent an official emissary to the rebels. That's good. You now have somebody there talking to them. But, overall, if the White House were to send an official envoy to Gadhafi, then you undercut the efforts that the Turks are making, that maybe the Greeks are making. The White House position all along has been we want other nations involved. Even the Indonesians have been making noises. So I'm not sure it hurts to get some firsthand sense of what Gadhafi is thinking, if indeed he gets the meeting. If the White House wanted to call off this meeting or undercut it, they could certainly say so and we haven't heard anything from them.</s>COOPER: Fareed?</s>ZAKARIA: Well, I think -- I don't dispute -- look, this is a kind of complication negotiation minuet. What is the best strategy? What strikes me actually that is more significant, and I would love to hear from Anne-Marie, because she is by training an international lawyer, the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court came out with a very tough statement about Gadhafi, mainly because of the kind of images that have come out...</s>COOPER: Right. Shooting of protesters, they said that was a deliberate -- they had evidence that that was a deliberate policy.</s>ZAKARIA: Precisely. Now, if that's the case, they rarely come out with these kind of statements when they are not preparing to indict, when they do not have a criminal case that they're going to make, a case for war crimes against Gadhafi. If that's the case, it complicates our negotiations, because it means there isn't an easy exit for Gadhafi, there isn't a quiet retirement home in Mali that he can go to or some other African country. It means he's going to be pursued by the Criminal Court. And so there isn't a plea bargain strategy here. And if that's the case, in a strange way it actually makes it more difficult to dislodge him from power or at least that's my initial hypothesis.</s>COOPER: Anne-Marie, do you agree with that?</s>SLAUGHTER: This is the absolute paradox or dilemma of peace vs. justice. You can't have peace without justice. Clearly the rebels are saying, much of the world is saying look what this guy has done. You can't let him off the hook. That's why we have an International Criminal Court. At the same time, what is most important right now is to get the fighting ended, so the Libyans can start rebuilding their country. And for that, Fareed's right, this makes things more difficult. There are ways out if he goes to an African company that won't extradite him or is not subject to the jurisdiction of the court. Then you can bring the indictment, but he's effectively then prisoner in that country. But there's a little bit of wiggle room, but it's a straightforward conflict between the demands of peace and justice.</s>COOPER: Nic, what do we know about the reporters who are going to be expelled; have some already left; have some already been expelled?</s>ROBERTSON: It won't happen for another few hours, and then it will perhaps become clear who actually has to leave, who may be able to get a stay of execution, if you will, and stay on a little longer. It's a very much a sort of a looking glass operation here. One person, one government official will tell you one thing, another will tell you another thing. You think you have been able to extend with one person, yet somebody else will call you up -- as many journalists who have been forced out of the country over the past few weeks will tell you, you get a call in the middle of the night and you have to leave. However I saw one journalist here today who was forced out with a phone call, I think it was Sunday night into Monday morning, back in the hotel here again, forced out by one official and allowed back in by another one. It's really -- it's a looking glass situation here, Anderson.</s>COOPER: It's fascinating. Fareed Zakaria, thank you. Professor Slaughter, thanks as well. Nic, stay with us. I know you have got more to report. Nic Robertson sat down today with Eman al-Obeidy. The regime actually allowed that interview to take place, then apparently didn't like what she was saying. Things got pretty heated in the room. I'm going to talk to Nic about that interview live after the break. Also, as we wait for the White House budget talks to wrap up, more on the showdown. Again, we're carefully watching that live shot position outside the White House and why this had to go down to the wire at all. A lot of people accusing both sides of being more interested in scoring political points than taking care of your dollars and cents. Details ahead.