Caitlyn Jenner's "Vanity Cover" Sparks Reaction
LEMON: Caitlyn Jenner's stunning debut on the cover of "Vanity Fair" is still, well, sinking in for a lot of -- whole lot of people. Reactions are both positive and there are some negative as well. And I want to talk about it with Zoey Tur, transgender TV news reporter who is special correspondent for Inside Edition and radio host for KFI in Los Angeles. KFI or KFL?</s>ZOEY TUR, INSIDE EDITION CORRESPONDENT: KFI. LEMON: I want to make sure I get it right. Because it looks the same in the front.</s>TUR: a.m. at 6.40.</s>LEMON: All right.</s>TUR: More stimulating talk.</s>LEMON: Oh, Lord, here we go. Zoe. Back with me is Crystal Wright and Perez Hilton. Last time you got me right at the end of the segment, Zoey, and you're like, and you're a very handsome man and I was like, I turned, you know, I'm black, I turned rust. I didn't red.</s>TUR: You are a handsome guy.</s>LEMON: Well, thank you.</s>TUR: And a great singer.</s>LEMON: Thank you.</s>TUR: Who knew?</s>LEMON: Thank you very much. All right. This has gone off the rails. Before it goes totally after the rails, you said it in April, that trans people need an icon. But Bruce Jenner is the worst possible choice. Do you still feel that way?</s>TUR: In the Washington Post Op-Ed?</s>LEMON: Yes, did you say that? Did you think that?</s>TUR: Yes, I know. I did. And, yes, I felt that way. I'm hoping to be proven wrong. And Jenner said clearly in this article that she's done lying, that Caitlyn Jenner is now going to tell the truth. So, we'll see. But so far, again, I'm not real impressed because what we're seeing is a rollout of a product. You know, this is all about a product, a highly produced product. The photos are highly sexualized. She is very attractive. Well photographed. But, again...</s>LEMON: Does that bother you, that it's highly sexualized?</s>TUR: No, not at all.</s>LEMON: OK.</s>TUR: To see a 65-year-old trans woman, you know, being so sexy. But this is about sex. It is a statement. It is a product. And this is the continuation of the Kardashian line.</s>LEMON: Perez is about to jump out of his chair now.</s>HILTON: So, well, she is a Jenner, after all. Sex is great. Selling stuff is great. But, just like myself, and, Don, are not representatives for our multi communities we're members of, Caitlyn is one of many voices. And I think, for the trans community, not a trans person myself, there needs to be more visibility. So, the more people who are open about, you know, their gender, the more change, the more dialogue that could be had in the households where real hearts and minds are going to be opened...</s>TUR: I think it's great that I'm not the only transgender person on the air now. Laverne Cox would agree with you.</s>LEMON: That is interesting. Yes. So, I want to say that this is the first time Crystal has not said anything. Crystal, you have two people on who are outtalking you. But not everyone is really so happy about this. Erik Erikson, who works for Fox now, and he wrote for Redstate.com. He also used to work for CNN, by the way, just for transparency here. He said, "If an alcoholic told you that his authentic self was to drink, you would not encourage that. If a person told you his authentic was to be attracted to small boys you would not encourage that. If a person told you that his authentic self was to mutilate his body you would not encourage that. When a 65-year-old former Olympian tells you that he has decided after all these years that he is a she, your first reaction should not be to congratulate the man on finally finding his authentic self but steering him into therapy." What's your reaction, Crystal?</s>WRIGHT: My reaction is I don't care what Bruce Jenner is. I don't care what Bruce Jenner calls himself. I don't think -- I think Bruce Jenner is doing this for Bruce Jenner. It's very much a product. It's a promotion. I don't think it's good for the transgender community.</s>LEMON: What's wrong with doing it for himself?</s>WRIGHT: I particularly don't, well, because I particularly don't think it's going to help young people really struggling. You know what my mom said today? Which I think -- I think my mom is right about a lot of things. You know what she said, she said, so, what's next? Black people -- we're going to all of a sudden start bleaching our skin because we don't like being black? And we're going to do this and we're going to be on the cover of "Vanity Fair"? I guarantee you, Don, nobody would want to shoot you...</s>LEMON: What does that have to do with the price of tea? I mean, people have been bleaching themselves forever. I mean, listen...</s>WRIGHT: They have been doing it.</s>TUR: It's called hydroquinone and blacks are major consumers of it.</s>WRIGHT: No. They have not been doing hydroquinone or whatever however you pronounce it to the agree of Michael Jackson. It's not something that black people wake up and say, hey, I think I want to be white today.</s>LEMON: What does that have to do -- I don't know what this has to do with being trans. It has nothing to do with being trans.</s>WRIGHT: Well, no. But I am making a point. I'm also making a point. You asked me about Erik Erikson. I think that a black people, Eric had a point in that what he's saying is, if a black person all of a sudden said that I just don't think I'm black anymore, you know, you would -- everybody would go, what? I think we're giving Bruce Jenner, Caitlyn, whatever you want to call her too much attention. OK. Bruce Jenner get...</s>LEMON: I still don't understand. I don't understand the connection. What am I getting wrong here? I don't understand the...</s>HILTON: They're clearly not as supportive as I would have imagined. I mean, why would you support it...</s>TUR: Not everybody supported it.</s>HILTON: ... and we're seen on this panel.</s>LEMON: Because, wait, wait. Hang on. Because here's the thing. I think you're saying that, if someone doesn't like that they have curly hair they get straight hair. If someone doesn't like that they have straight hair they get curly hair.</s>WRIGHT: No, I don't think curly hair. I talked about black.</s>LEMON: That's a whole different thing than being born feeling that you're born within the wrong gender. That's not the same thing.</s>HILTON: Yes.</s>WRIGHT: I'm not talking the media...</s>HILTON: Caitlyn said it herself.</s>TUR: May I interject for a moment?</s>LEMON: OK. Let's let the trans person get. Go ahead.</s>WRIGHT: OK. But I just want to say one thing about Caitlyn, really quickly.</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>WRIGHT: I think real courage is not trying to make money, millions of dollars off of coming out and having -- changing your gender. Real courage is not doing this in the public way, trying to sexualize photos in "Vanity Fair," because the average transgender person really struggling could never have that kind of reception and is never going to make millions of dollars off their struggle.</s>LEMON: That is a true point. That's true.</s>WRIGHT: But real courage, what Bruce Jenner is doing and Caitlyn is not courage.</s>HILTON: Yes, it is. Real courage is living your life and not committing suicide. Real courage is doing what you need to do to live. I'm Bruce, Caitlyn loves his family. We've seen that on television. The last thing that Caitlyn would want to do is hurt her family.</s>WRIGHT: You know the suicide rate of transgender?</s>LEMON: Yes.</s>WRIGHT: Renee Richards.</s>HILTON: I know this.</s>WRIGHT: OK.</s>LEMON: All right. But, listen Crystal. I agree with you about the average trans person and that needs to be addressed. But I don't see anything wrong with anyone making money, whatever. Make your money baby however you're going to make it. Go ahead, Zoey.</s>WRIGHT: But you had a problem with the Duggars. I mean, we just talked about a segment where the Duggars are being...</s>LEMON: For doing something illegal. I don't have problems with the Duggars.</s>WRIGHT: Bruce Jenner is no exception. Come on, Don.</s>LEMON: Hang on. I don't have a problem with the Duggars making money off a reality TV show. I have a problem with child molestation.</s>WRIGHT: I have a problem with child molestation too.</s>LEMON: That's an issue. But then making money, let them make their money.</s>WRIGHT: But I think we talked about the Duggars in different thing.</s>LEMON: We're going to -- I have to take a break.</s>WRIGHT: Then we talked about Bruce Jenner.</s>LEMON: All right. I'm going to take a break and then I'll let you respond, Zoey and we'll continue this conversation. All right. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.