Republican Civil War; Tea Party Racial Nuggets
KATHLEEN PARKER, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Kathleen Parker.</s>ELIOT SPITZER, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: And I'm Eliot Spitzer.Welcome to the program.Tonight our "Opening Arguments," civil war in the Republican Party. You know, Kathleen, still a week to go before the midterm elections, but already a battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party.</s>PARKER: The Republican Party is always at war with somebody. They're either firing at the federal government or they are firing at each other.</s>SPITZER: But normally they are disciplined, I thought. Normally the disciplined Republican Party knew what its message was, knew what its priorities were. Now even before they have their big win they're already counting in the bag. You know, the Tea Party is at war with the main part of the Republican Party. We don't know what they stand for anymore if they're going to be able to govern.</s>PARKER: Well, the Republican Party knows what it stands for, it stands for low taxes and cutting government spending. Come on, Eliot.</s>SPITZER: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. This is the Republican Party that has left us with the biggest deficits in history and economic cataclysm that Barack Obama had to clean up. Ronald Reagan, deficits, George Bush, deficits, George Bush II deficits, Bill Clinton, the one Democrat in there, surpluses.</s>PARKER: Oh come on, Eliot, you know I'm not a partisan and we do know that you are, but let me just clarify the record as a reporter. I have to, it's my duty to do this. This started with Freddie and Fannie under Clinton, you know that. Bush threw steroids at it.</s>SPITZER: Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness, Kathleen. Somebody got to you. You are mouthing cheap little points.</s>PARKER: No, no, it's the homeownership society. We give Bush the credit for that or the blame for that.</s>SPITZER: Where is that moderate voice of reason I've been talking to that understands Wall Street laid the foundation for this. The deregulatory policy of Ronald Reagan destroyed our economy. In 30 years, middle class income peaked when President Bill Clinton was president.</s>PARKER: You're lecturing again.</s>SPITZER: The median income, the top, highest it's ever been. Suddenly things fell apart under George Bush. Come on, let's be real about solutions. I tell you, Fannie and Freddie are part of it, but don't say that...</s>PARKER: They're a huge part of it. It's all about giving -- no come on, the loans to people who couldn't afford mortgages, that's where it all started. You said that a million times.</s>SPITZER: From countrywide, from all the banks, from the underwriters and the rating agencies. It was everybody. Don't buy into the notion...</s>PARKER: I'm not blaming everybody, but I mean, you've got to spread the blame around. You have to -- no, no. You blamed it on the Republicans, I'm the one that said no, that this goes across the board.</s>SPITZER: Let's come back to where we started, though: Civil war. Civil war.</s>PARKER: You are losing so you want to bring it back another point.</s>SPITZER: No, no. As we said the other night, go see "Inside Job" and then ask the question, who is at fault. That movie, we agreed, with the definitive statement.</s>PARKER: Systemic. Systemic. Systemic.</s>SPITZER: OK, let's go back to the Tea Party. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but none the less, one thing we know, civil war in the Republican Party for Democrats, going to be fun to watch.</s>PARKER: But first, it's time for "The Arena," and that civil war we've been talking about for the soul of the Republican Party, meet two of the generals. He's a conservative Republican from Virginia who is both governor and senator who many saw as a presidential possibility, George Allen.</s>SPITZER: And one of the pioneers of the conservative movement who lately has been highly critical of George Allen and his fellow Republicans, Richard Viguerie. Welcome to you both.</s>PARKER: Speaking of which, Richard Viguerie, I want to read a quote from you. We love doing this with you.</s>RICHARD VIGUERIE, MODERN CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT: You start every show this way.</s>PARKER: Well, you're so quotable. OK. You said, "It was President George W. Bush, Karl Rove and the Congress of George Allen's vintage who actually spawned the Tea Party. And anyone who thinks the Tea Party is a reaction to Obama is missing the whole point." You said, "...they blindly and foolishly remain part of the problem." So is George Allen part of the problem?</s>VIGUERIE: There are votes that Senator Allen would like to take back now. But a week before the election, the problem is not Karl Rove or Governor George Allen or anybody else out there. The problem is the liberal Democrats. People are angry, they're furious out there...</s>SPITZER: Wait, wait, wait a minute.</s>VIGUERIE: The people are ready to rise up and they will revolt next week. It's interesting that you want to deflect the conversation to a different subject.</s>SPITZER: Let me interrupt you for one second. I love your party loyalty. I know it is a week before the election. But you took a direct shot right at George Allen who is former governor, former senator. We got him on the show. Governor Allen, I want to give you a chance to respond to what Richard Viguerie said. He's backing off a little bit, party comedy is nice. How do you respond to being blamed for the Tea Party?</s>GEORGE ALLEN, FMR VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: Well look, the differences that Richard and I have are minuscule. I've always admired Richard Viguerie from the days I first got involved in organized politics for heading up Young Virginians for Reagan when I was a student in 1976 at Mr. Jefferson's university. The difference if you read Richard's piece is that -- when did the Tea Party start? Well it galvanized last year, but Rich sard exactly correct that the antipathy and the movement and the folks getting upset with what's going on in government began before this year and, in fact, there somewhere things that I disagreed with President Bush on. Whether it was amnesty for illegal immigrants, I had questions about Harriet Miers as a Supreme Court justice, And then when you see the TARP bailouts and then the really thing that I think set a lot of folks off by President Bush was the bailout of automobile manufacturers and taking from one and giving to another. And that sort of approach of saying that, gosh, I want to save the free market system for -- by abandoning free market principles just doesn't make sense. So, I've spoken at a lot of Tea Party rallies. They've invited me to them, I've enjoyed it. And it's actually healthy to see that the people are standing up for the future of America and that's what this election in 2010 and 2012 will be about as the future direction of our country.</s>PARKER: I think it's great these two are having such a lovefest, here.</s>ALLEN: I know you don't -- I know you all don't like that, but we're actually friends.</s>SPITZER: We're all friends.</s>VIGUERIE: We've go to focus on next Tuesday, Kathleen.</s>PARKER: All right, so what happens after that. You've declared war...</s>VIGUERIE: You know, when I say that conservatives are like Governor Allen, myself will have a great time election night and maybe we'll sleep in the morning after the election, have breakfast in bed, read the papers, watch a little TV, but then the afternoon we battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party.</s>SPITZER: Well, let's drill down on that for a moment. John Boehner who is, if you are correct and you win and, governor, you have predicted this as well -- if he becomes the speaker of the House of Representatives, he has said he would compromise on the tax cuts. He said, not many weeks ago, that he would concede the middle class tax cut extension and tax -- pass a tax increase on the wealthy. Would you go for that?</s>VIGUERIE: Oh, absolutely not. And he's backed from that 100 percent. And there's though way that the Republicans in Congress in this new Congress are going to allow that.</s>SPITZER: Governor, would you think this could happen as part of a compromise after the election?</s>ALLEN: Absolutely not. I think the very first thing they need to do is prevent tax increases. And the tax cuts we passed in 2001 and 2003, which reduced taxes on income for families, small business owners, reduced taxes on capital gains and dividends, they need to stay in place. That would be the very worst thing that the government could do is raise taxes on our economy and would hurt jobs. The second thing I think they need to do is repeal and replace Obamacare with health savings accounts. They need to stop the spending accounts. And the fourth thing is take responsibility for energy policy and withdraw from EPA the power to regulate CO2 which would cause skyrocketing electricity, fuel and food prices and be a job killer, as well.</s>PARKER: Governor, I want to ask you a quick question. Mr. Viguerie has said that everybody is buddies until November 2, until after the elections, and then he's going to declare a war on those Republicans who aren't quite ideological enough. There's going to be a purge, in other words. Are you onboard with that purge?</s>ALLEN: Kathleen...</s>VIGUERIE: I never said "purge." Nobody said "purge."</s>PARKER: Well, I said, "purge," but that's what we're talking about.</s>ALLEN: No, Kathleen, you know, I know you are trying to stir things up.</s>PARKER: No, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it.</s>ALLEN: Here's what I'm going to be focused on and I think Richard will and I think more importantly, not just us four, but all Americans are going to want to see the Republicans in control and keeping their words, keeping their commitment to the American people. Whether it's on preventing tax increases, rational energy policy, stopping this out-of-control spending and the people clearly want to see a repeal of this Obamacare. And I think it's very important that we have a positive, constructive agenda to get America moving and ascending in the right direction. And that's what I think we're going to be focused on and we're going to have a lot of good, new blood in Washington. Some have been there before, like Senator Coats, and there will be other new ones like Marco Rubio from Florida and I think it's going to be an exciting time to get our country back in the right direction.</s>VIGUERIE: Let me just say that we ought to add on to what Governor Allen said, you've got an administration, Kathleen and Eliot, that's moving significantly to the left. You've got a country that's moving significantly to the right. To paraphrase Mr. Lincoln, this House cannot stand divided. And we have a divided country right now. And something has got to give. And the American people are tired of big government. They want less government involvement in their life. And we're off to a big battle in this country.</s>SPITZER: Well, I just want to come back to some numbers here because, Governor Allen, I think when you were in the Senate; you were in the Senate during the tenure of President Bush. He left us with the biggest deficits until that moment in history. There was absolutely no control of spending. You were part of that. Did you vote for his budgets?</s>ALLEN: I did. And...</s>SPITZER: And isn't that why Mr. Viguerie has gone right at you and said you are the problem. You're mouthing nice Tea Party words now, you voted for the biggest deficits in history until that time, didn't you?</s>ALLEN: Well, those deficits pale compared to what we see now. I also...</s>SPITZER: No, no, no, Governor, I'm going to hold your feet to the fire. You're trying to remake yourself as a Tea Party member.</s>ALLEN: No, no...</s>SPITZER: You voted for the single largest deficits in history. Did you not?</s>ALLEN: I voted for those appropriations bills, and I also, if you want to get the full record there, Mr. Spitzer, is I tried to stop some of the spending. I actually...</s>SPITZER: You voted for it.</s>ALLEN: Well, you have amendments to bills. They even put in a bill to stop this spending. It was actually called that, "Stop Overspending." And there were a few of us, about a dozen, who tried to stop the Republicans spending on the Bridge to Nowhere and for orchid gardens in Pittsburgh and indoor tropical rain forests in Iowa. And there's a lot of things that I tried to do. Unfortunately, there was only about 13 of us who stuck together with it. And I'm one...</s>SPITZER: But I want to come back to the...</s>ALLEN: ...who believes we do need to have a government that is focused on its primary responsibilities, which are national defense and not meddling in a variety other things that are really to be left to the people in the states.</s>SPITZER: But the point I'm making is the reason that Richard Viguerie, and we quoted the words, said you were the reason the Tea Party was upset, and you voted for the largest deficits in history when you were in the Senate.</s>ALLEN: Yeah, and a lot of -- look, Eliot...</s>SPITZER: We're talking facts, here.</s>ALLEN: Lessons learned.</s>SPITZER: Guys, we're talking facts on this show, not pabulum. And we're going to hold your feet to the fire on fact.</s>PARKER: Here's a slightly different question. Can the Tea Party and the Republican establishment Party co-exist?</s>VIGUERIE: Well, no, I mean, this is a House divided. The Republicans lost the Congress in '06, they lost the White House and more congressional seats in '08 having, in my opinion, and most all Tea Party members, nothing to do with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barack Obama. Had everything to do with George Bush, Karl Rove and the big government Republicans in Washington, D.C. And you're making too much of a fight between Governor Allen and myself. It was the leadership coming out of the White House and leadership of Obama -- excuse me, of Boehner and McConnell...</s>SPITZER: Richard, Richard, Richard, Richard, we quoted -- you wrote the article, you put his name in it. You said he was responsible, his outrageous spending. You said his inability to control spending created the Tea Party. Now, you're trying to play nice a week before the election. That's politics. We're trying to deal with facts, here. He voted for the largest deficits in history. That's a fact.</s>VIGUERIE: I'm shocked we've got politics between Spitzer and Richard Viguerie. Well, I'm shocked.</s>SPITZER: We're talking facts.</s>PARKER: And I think Mr. Viguerie.</s>ALLEN: And hold it. Eliot. Eliot, let me just say something. And in the event that I had voted against these appropriations bills you'd be saying oh, and you didn't fund the troops in Iraq and how can you not fund the troops in Iraq, so...</s>SPITZER: No, I'm just looking for some consistency and we're going to, in a couple moments...</s>ALLEN: There is consistency if you look at my record.</s>SPITZER: We're going to come back in a moment to see what we're going to do to figure out how we balance the budget and how we actually control spending and I want your views on that because that is, according to you both, the Tea Party's primary mandate. Cutting taxes is the easy part. Controlling spending is where the rubber hits the road. As a governor, you did that and I think that's the conversation we have to have.</s>PARKER: We have to take a quick break from this fascinating discussion and we'll be right back with Richard Viguerie and Governor George Allen.</s>D.L. HUGLEY, COMEDIAN: Listen, I come from a state where Arnold Schwarzenegger is governor. I mean, only in California would you vote for a dude just because you like "Terminator."</s>PARKER: Let's talk about that. I mean, how much fun would it be to have President Palin?</s>HUGLEY: It would not. I don't think it would be that. I don't think the country could take another one.