Pentagon Releases Report on Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy
COOPER: We're here on the Mexican border, but you can feel the shockwaves all the way from Washington. They're coming from a Pentagon report on gays and lesbians serving openly in the military that could make history. It's the product of nine months of work, researchers soliciting the views of 400,000 service members, getting about a 28 percent response rate, which they say is average for the military. They conducted 140 focus groups, 95 town-hall style forums, interviewing commanders, and top brass, as well as members of Congress, gathering the views of friends and allies, as well as supporters and opponents of repealing don't ask, don't tell. The bottom line, according to the report, 70 percent of the troops surveyed say repeal would be either positive, mixed or make little difference at all. Thirty percent were opposed, about the same percentage as American civilians. Marines and special forces members registering higher negatives, 40 percent to 60 percent. The report also noted a number of religious and morally based objections to homosexuality. That said, when asked about serving in a unit with someone they believe to be gay or lesbian, 92 percent the unit's ability to work together was very good, good, or neither good nor poor. The study recommended no housing or living changes. Critics have raised concerns about gays and straights showering together, that gay men and lesbians would act as predators. The authors concluding the report -- the report said the concerns that they heard were -- quote -- "based on stereotypes" and pointed to their survey results showing that 50 percent recognized they already have had the experience of sharing bathroom facilities with someone they believed to be gay. The report also quoted one gay service member who said that, in order to fit in, gay men have learned to avoid making heterosexuals feel uncomfortable or threatened in these situations. President Obama tonight praising the report, he and his defense secretary urging lawmakers to take action.</s>ROBERT GATES, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The legislation presently before the Congress would authorize a repeal of the don't ask, don't tell, pending a certification by the president, secretary of defense, and the chairman. It would not harm military readiness.</s>COOPER: He went on to say it would be unwise, in his view, to push full implementation of repeal until more can be done to prepare certain specialized units. The secretary also taking issue with critics of the study, singling out Senator John McCain. Listen.</s>GATES: I think that, in this respect, and I obviously have a lot of admiration and respect for Senator McCain, but in this respect, I think that he's mistaken. I think this report does provide a sound basis for making decisions on this law.</s>COOPER: Let's talk about the "Raw Politics" with former Clinton White House legal adviser on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender issues, Richard Socarides, also Nancy Pfotenhauer, president of Media Speaks Strategies and former senior adviser to John McCain's presidential campaign. Richard, what about this Pentagon review? I mean, it was obviously very comprehensive, very detailed. What happens now?</s>RICHARD SOCARIDES, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: Well, I think, you know, first of all, today was really an extraordinary day in the history of this. We had for the first time this nine-month, comprehensive, impartial study done by the Pentagon, and endorsed by Secretary Gates and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Admiral Mullen, which said not only was this the right thing to do, but that it could be done seamlessly, that it would have no negative adverse consequences to the military, and, in fact, it would be a net positive in terms of national security, in terms of military effectiveness, in terms of the integrity of the force. So, I think, you know, we should just understand what an important thing this was today in the -- in the history of trying to get this repealed. What we're going to look at next is, there are going to be hearings on Thursday and Friday. And then there's going to be a vote, probably next week. And it will be up to the Senate. You know, this -- this repeal has already passed the House. So, it will be up to the Senate to decide whether or not this will go forward. And -- and the concern, of course, now is that, because they have these Senate procedural rules where any one senator, or certainly a group of Republican senators, can block forward movement, that a procedural hurdle will be thrown in -- in front of this.</s>COOPER: Right. Nancy, you oppose repealing don't ask, don't tell. What do you make of the fact that 70 percent of the service members surveyed apparently don't have a problem with getting rid of the policy?</s>NANCY PFOTENHAUER, FORMER ADVISER TO MCCAIN PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well, I think there -- that it will take a couple of days to peel back the layers on this survey, because, obviously, the -- some of the questions are about how the entire thing was framed. But the most important judgment is, does this help or hinder our military effectiveness? And, on that one, the jury is still out. I mean, the most important arbiters of this are the four service leaders. So, whether you're looking at -- you know, the Marines or the Air Force or the Army or the Navy, do they believe that this will improve our combat effectiveness?</s>SOCARIDES: I mean...</s>PFOTENHAUER: Not one of the four has endorsed this. Not only that. The percentage...</s>SOCARIDES: Nancy...</s>PFOTENHAUER: Please. The percentage of people who are the most concerned about this are the people who are in combat situations. So, you have got Marines and Army...</s>COOPER: So, you're discounting -- you're discounting Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint -- you're discounting, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and Bob Gates?</s>PFOTENHAUER: No, I'm not -- I'm not discounting. I'm saying -- I'm -- I'm not discounting. What I'm saying is, the -- the people charged with offering independent, objective views of combat readiness are the heads of the four -- the four service leaders. Not a single one of them has endorsed it. The Marine commandant has raised serious concerns.</s>SOCARIDES: Well, we're going to -- we're going to see -- we're going to see -- we're going to...</s>PFOTENHAUER: And so have the people in combat.</s>SOCARIDES: Nancy -- Nancy, we're going to see, you know, later this week...</s>COOPER: OK. Richard, what about that?</s>SOCARIDES: I mean, we're going to see, Anderson and Nancy, later this week exactly what the -- the -- what the service chiefs have to say. But I think you -- I think -- I don't understand how anybody could say, after this most comprehensive study -- I mean, there have been lots of -- there have already been 22 studies of this, and this is the most comprehensive, the most impartial study of this, which has -- which found, you know, conclusively, that there would be no issues, that -- that -- that service members supported this. So, I don't see how anybody could say that there's -- that -- that -- that there's any -- there's no dispute left here. What I fear is that senators...</s>PFOTENHAUER: No, that's not true.</s>SOCARIDES: No, that is definitely -- there -- there -- there's no...</s>PFOTENHAUER: That's just not true.</s>SOCARIDES: That -- all of the arguments against this repeal have fallen away. There is nothing left.</s>SOCARIDES: I fear that what John McCain is doing right now is, he's trying to re-litigate the election, unfortunately. And he is just standing in the way of this...</s>PFOTENHAUER: Well, that -- that's...</s>SOCARIDES: ... because the Republicans see this as a win for Obama. But let me tell you...</s>PFOTENHAUER: No, no, no, that's incredibly disrespectful...</s>SOCARIDES: ... this is not a win for Obama.</s>PFOTENHAUER: ... of someone...</s>COOPER: Well, Nancy...</s>PFOTENHAUER: ... who has actually served in combat.</s>COOPER: Nancy...</s>PFOTENHAUER: And you must distinguish between the opinion of people who sit behind desks and the people who are fighting and dying for us.</s>SOCARIDES: Listen -- listen, I have a lot of -- I have a lot of respect -- listen...</s>PFOTENHAUER: Those individuals have raised serious concerns.</s>SOCARIDES: Listen, I...</s>PFOTENHAUER: And we should listen to those.</s>SOCARIDES: I have a lot of respect for Senator McCain.</s>PFOTENHAUER: This is about politics and the lame-duck section -- session.</s>SOCARIDES: The senator -- but...</s>PFOTENHAUER: The only reason...</s>SOCARIDES: Well, it is about politics.</s>PFOTENHAUER: ... to be doing this now, when we -- when we have got -- when we're fighting two wars is because of politics. Now, we understand politics. Politics matters. But it should not trump concerns about military effectiveness.</s>COOPER: OK, Nancy, got it. Richard, I want you to be able to respond.</s>SOCARIDES: Unfortunately, it is about politics. And it's about...</s>SOCARIDES: It's -- it -- we -- what -- what Senator McCain has to realize is that the time for this has come. So, I think, Nancy, I would urge you -- I mean, I have a lot of respect for him, too. His position on this keeps shifting. First, he wanted to hear from the military. Then, when the military said it was the right thing to do, he wanted a study. When the study said it was the right thing to do, now he wants another study. I mean, there is no escaping that he is just being contrary on this, because he doesn't want to see President Obama, you know, have some kind of win on this.</s>PFOTENHAUER: No.</s>SOCARIDES: But this will not be a win for President Obama. This will be a win for basic American fairness, for the -- and for the Constitution. And I -- I -- you know, people who care about this ought to call Senator McCain and call the other Republicans, Senator Collins, Senator Snowe, who are very crucial to this right now...</s>COOPER: We have got to leave it there.</s>SOCARIDES: ... and urge them to do the fair and right thing.</s>PFOTENHAUER: Senator McCain has always said he wanted to hear from the four service leaders. Not a single one of them has endorsed moving forward at this time, when we're fighting two wars.</s>COOPER: Right.</s>PFOTENHAUER: There's just no reason to implement this now, except for a lame-duck session.</s>COOPER: That's actually not what he said -- that's actually not what he said back in 2000 -- right. That's actually not what he said, actually, in 2006. He said -- he talked about military leadership. He didn't cite the four -- you know, he didn't discount...</s>PFOTENHAUER: Well, he has also cited the four...</s>COOPER: ... the chairman of the Joint Chiefs. He didn't discount the secretary of defense.</s>PFOTENHAUER: Well, he has also cited the four service leaders.</s>COOPER: Not -- not back in 2006, but now he has.</s>PFOTENHAUER: And -- and, frankly, I would like to hear from them, I mean, when we have not seen a single one of them endorse this, and when -- when we have got...</s>SOCARIDES: Look, we're going to hear from them.</s>PFOTENHAUER: ... at least one out front...</s>PFOTENHAUER: ... raising concerns.</s>SOCARIDES: And do you think if -- if we hear from them...</s>COOPER: We have got to -- we have got to...</s>SOCARIDES: If we hear from them Friday, will it then be OK...</s>COOPER: We...</s>SOCARIDES: ... if we hear from them Friday, and they say we can go forward?</s>PFOTENHAUER: I -- I would personally feel a lot...</s>SOCARIDES: Because I think that's what they will say.</s>PFOTENHAUER: I -- I would...</s>SOCARIDES: I think what they will say on Friday is that we can go forward, that this is doable, that -- that there may be some objections, but it's the right thing to do and that it's the right thing for the military.</s>PFOTENHAUER: If it's the right -- if it's the right...</s>SOCARIDES: So, will Senator McCain agree then?</s>COOPER: We will wait. We will wait. We have got to wait and see until Friday.</s>COOPER: And we're out of time, guys. I'm sorry.</s>PFOTENHAUER: OK. Thank you.</s>COOPER: Nancy Pfotenhauer, appreciate your time, Richard Socarides as well. Up next, we're going to tell you what happened at the trial of Elizabeth Smart's alleged kidnapper that landed the defendant on a stretcher. Also ahead: Another -- another danged fence, this one supposed to protect the border electronically, the virtual fence, remember? President Bush talked about it. Obama has talked about it. Wouldn't it be nice if it actually worked? We're "Keeping Them Honest."