Capping the Oil Disaster; Help for the Unemployed
SANCHEZ: There is this big argument that is going on right now in this country, and we have talked about it. It's about aid to the unemployed, to Americans who are out of work and want to collect. Senate Republicans are holding that up. They're saying that, look, if we as a nation have to give X amount to the unemployed -- in other words, we all reach into our pockets and we give this money to the unemployed -- then we also need to go into the budget and cut that much, so that we could be, you know, deficit neutral. Well, here's what the president said today. You might say he's trying to call out the GOP on this one.</s>OBAMA: after years of championing policies that turned a record surplus into a massive deficit, the same people who didn't have any problems spending hundreds of billions of dollars on tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans are now saying we shouldn't offer relief to middle-class Americans like Jim or Leslie (ph) or Denise (ph) who really need help.</s>SANCHEZ: You know, that's interesting. I want to bring in Doug Heye. He's the communications director for the Republican National Committee. The president is making an interesting point. And, you know, it's up to you to refute it and for Americans to listen in, but the president is saying, you guys aren't willing to give the unemployed money because you're afraid it's going to increase the deficit, but isn't that exactly what you did during the Bush years, when Republicans decided to give this much of a tax break to Americans? Doesn't that also -- that also cuts into the deficit, doesn't it?</s>DOUG HEYE, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Well, certainly, when we were in control of Congress, we extended jobless benefits to unemployed Americans. And it's what we want to do again. We have seen the budget deficit -- the debt -- excuse me -- explode over the past --</s>SANCHEZ: Hold on. I just asked you a question and you completely ignored it. So, let me try it again. The president just said -- oh, darn it. Here goes Thad Allen. Can you hold on, Doug? Hold on. We will get to you in just a moment. And we will continue this. Here's -- here's Thad Allen.</s>ADMIRAL THAD ALLEN (RET.), NATIONAL INCIDENT COMMANDER: Let me state right away that our priorities are to plug this well, so the number-one priority is to finish these relief wells out. I can talk about that status in a minute. In the meantime, containment options are our next priority, followed by response to the oil on the water. Over the last several days, we have been watching the pressure in the capping stack that was put on last week. That pressure now sits at 6,811 PSI. It continues to gradually rise several pounds or a pound or so every hour. And that's a positive trend. As we know, the overall pressure itself was lower than what was expected. That's one of the issues we continue to discuss between our science team and BP as we move forward. We have agreed that we will go forward with another 24-hour period from today to tomorrow. This is contingent on a reply to a letter that I sent to BP yesterday laying out requests for some extensive information regarding the various aspects of the relief wells' containment the and current operations, including how we are conducting monitoring to make sure there is no seepages or leaks associated with the well integrity tests that would lead us to believe there might be a problem with the wellbore integrity. That would include vigorous and robust visual monitoring, seismic monitoring, acoustic monitoring with the NOAA vessel that is out there, and also sensors that are already in place, sonar associated with the working of the well itself, hydrophones and so forth. As a condition of moving forward with the well integrity test, BP is to report to us any anomalies and acts on those within four hours. We continue to work through that process. And I will go over some of the anomalies we have encountered and how we're dealing with them moving forward. At the same time there has been an interaction with the seismic research vessels and the acoustic research vessels and our need to build out long-term containment. We had talked before the capping stack went on of the need to build capacity out to 60,000 or 80,000 barrels per day by the end of July. We have necessarily had to make some tradeoffs between allowing the seismic vessels in and finish things like the vertical riser associated with that system. We continue to negotiate with BP right now the best trade-off and how we best want to prioritize our long- term containment as it relates to the well integrity test. Long-term containment is the second goal following the relief wells, as I noted earlier. As I said, we have granted 24 more hours for BP to come back and provide us a response. There will be a science meeting later on this evening in Houston that will take a look at the data and the timelines provided by BP, and we will be assessing that as we move forward through the next 24 hours as well. Some key things we're working on -- and these have been discussed before -- I will start with the big one related to the pressure being lower than we thought. This has to do with a discussion about whether or not we're dealing with depletion of the reservoir vs. some other reason why that pressure might be lower. The most notable reason for that would be some kind of a leakage in the wellbore itself. There are different views on how this could come about. There's not a resolution moving forward, but we continue to discuss that. One reason we are continuing to discuss that is, we do have the robust response and the monitoring that's going on as we requested from BP. There have been three general areas of anomalies that have been detected since the 17th of July. The first one was a seepage about three nautical miles from the wellhead itself. We do not believe that is associated with this particular well integrity test or the Macondo well. However, we are continuing to look at baseline data associated with past activity that's in the area and we will continue to monitor that moving forward. We also have picked up some anomalies within several hundred meters of the wellhead itself and we are continuing to take a look at that and what that might portend. And, finally, we do have some bubbles that have arisen around the base the legacy blowout preventer. And then late last night, we established that there was some leakage in the capping stack itself. I have got a picture and a schematic of the capping stack. Let me just tell you right away, because this happened overnight. As you know, we had a connector piece of equipment that we established in to allow us to put the capping stack on. These are the three rams that are associated with the capping stack. This is a schematic of those three rams. The leakage is occurring in a flange that's located right about here. And there is hydrate formation up here on this side of the capping stack as we move forward. We do not know, but we do not believe this is consequential at this time, nor does it appear that the hydrate formation is inhibiting any operation of the capping stack. This is something we will continue to monitor as we move forward. So, we have the things that we're seeing right around the blowout preventer and the capping stack itself. There are a couple anomalies that have been detected within 100 to 200 meters around the well itself, and then the anomaly was detected on the 17th of July out to three kilometers. Again, there is no indication at this time that this is any indication of a significant problem in the wellbore, but we are running every one of these anomalies down. One of the reasons we're starting to find these, most likely, is that during the time that the well was open, it would be impossible to get those sensors in there and detect it with all the amount of hydrocarbons and noise that was being generated. So, we had the opportunity to see in a very quiet environment what the bottom of the ocean looks like there. And some of these conditions should be preexisting, and trying to sort this out as something we're dealing. But it is the collective opinion of the folks that are talking about this that the small seepages we are finding right now do not present at least at this point any indication that there is a threat to the wellbore. If we think that was going to happen, we would be taking immediate action. Now, having said that, if there is any indication of a precipitous drop in pressure or any reason why we might need to do something about it, we would need to have to vent immediately to let -- relieve the pressure on the well and move to longer-term containment. And one of the requests that we have made to BP -- and they will be answering in a letter we will get today -- is a detailed timeline of what it would take to restart containment operations should we need to do that. And this is -- gets a little more complicated than it would appear, because, with the capping stack being shut down for the time that it has been, we would have to, first of all, lower pressure and create the conditions to be able to bring the Q4000 and the Helix Producer back online. This could take several days because there's concerns about sand buildup in the oil column and the need to maybe make sure we treat these systems and get them operational before we bring the production back online. That said, we have asked for a detailed timeline on the interaction between the seismic testing, the acoustic testing, long- term containment, so we understand the interaction of the sensors that are out there right now and our need to continue to build out long- term containment as we move forward. And, with that, I would be glad to take your questions.</s>QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) with CNN. You mentioned that the pressure (OFF-MIKE) you anticipated, and that there was some depletion -- whether --</s>ALLEN: No.</s>QUESTION: There is a disagreement as to whether it is a depletion at the reservoir or leakage elsewhere and that there are differing views on this. Are differing views -- is there a federal government camp and a BP camp? Is there a way to describe this? Or are there differing views throughout all parties here?</s>ALLEN: Well, I think there are differing views between everybody in the science community. And let me make sure I state this correctly, because this was the initial pressures when the well was shut in. The pressures have continued to rise in a way that would lead some to believe that the well is holding pressure. The problem is, the pressure we started at was much lower than we thought we were going to be when the well was shut in. So, that leads to the discussion of, why was the pressure low to begin with? We were thinking that somehow it needed to be around 7,500 or 8,000 PSI, and we started out around 6,000, and we're up to 6,000 and change. We're up to 6,811 today. So, the question is, what caused that initial low pressure? Even though it's following a pattern that is consistent with a well with integrity, what has happened, and could there be leakage? Or is there an issue of well depletion? And there are arguments to be made on both sides. And those discussions continue. And we're trying to develop information that will allow us to do that. One of them is whether or not the well has been depleted and there is just less oil down there to create pressure, or is there an aquifer somehow related to this oil field that would still provide a way for the oil to rise and have pressure underneath it? So the question whether or not this oil field is related to an aquifer is one of the questions they're dealing with right now. And that gets back to the seismology and the geology around the area and the testing, and that continues to be under discussion as we move forward.</s>QUESTION: Could you also elaborate a little bit on the seepages? You found this one three nautical miles from the wellhead.</s>ALLEN: Three kilometers.</s>QUESTION: Three kilometers -- and one closer in. I presume that all of these are hydrocarbons. Do you know what is seeping out? Is the one closer in believed to be related to this oil field? And how did you detect it? And do you know what type of volumes --</s>ALLEN: Yes. The reason we're looking -- what we're actually looking for in this case would be methane gas, which is -- that is sometimes a precursor to oil actually rising up through the formation. So, if it is methane, and you can establish that it is that, that would be an indication you might need to look further. There is some indication that the seepage three kilometers away may not be related to this well. And we're going back through background data and taking a look at that. The only thing we're doing is, in closer to the well, we're actually taking samples of the gas itself and testing it for if there are any hydrocarbons in it. There was some trace of methane in some of the gas that was coming out near the base of the blowout preventer, not a lot. But we're taking extra samples, and we're sending those ashore to be tested right now.</s>SANCHEZ: So, here's the news. Another 24 hours is going to be -- is going to -- they're going to have to go through another 24 hours before they can have any kind of definitive information. They have got some findings. They're going to be taking those findings back to Houston. Speaking of Houston, Professor Van Nieuwenhuise is joining us now once again. You know, it's interesting. I heard him talking about two interesting things, some kind of leakage just right at the capping stack. And he actually showed us that. He pointed to that little place there on that thing. We'll turn that sound around in just a little bit. And then he is also talking about taking some of the data about the methane gas. Chad, I don't know if you heard him talk about this as well. It almost sounds like there's a little bit of a leakage and then a seepage. Did I hear him wrong, Professor?</s>NIEUWENHUISE: Oh, yes. I think you heard him correctly. They think that the one that's far away has nothing to do with this well. They're wondering if the one that's within a couple hundred yards happens to be related to the well. And then, also, the one at the cap of course is related to the well for sure.</s>SANCHEZ: So there's one right there at the cap.</s>NIEUWENHUISE: Right.</s>SANCHEZ: And that can't be too serious, because when we look at pictures -- we've got live pictures, we're looking at it now -- you don't see any oil coming out, right?</s>NIEUWENHUISE: No. And of course he said he didn't think at this point in time any of those are serious, and there is a good chance that none of them will become serious.</s>SANCHEZ: And then he talked about the other one, but he said that seepage "is not a threat." He said not a threat. That makes me feel pretty good.</s>NIEUWENHUISE: Right.</s>SANCHEZ: Chad, did you hear anything there that -- other than the fact that we're going to wait another 24 hours to make sure everything is good, take it back to the experts at Houston, experts like Professor Nieuwenhuise? Did you hear anything there? Are you looking at your notes?</s>CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You know, I did hear him say that it might be a couple days before production goes back on line because there may be sand in the column. We addressed that.</s>SANCHEZ: What does that mean?</s>MYERS: Doctor?</s>SANCHEZ: Well, you know what was interesting? He said at one point we don't know if it's an aquifer or maybe the fact that we've just finally depleted some of the oil in that area. You know, when I heard him say that I said, "Wow, has all the oil that was in that area actually gone out already?" Is that what he is suggesting?</s>NIEUWENHUISE: Yes. What normally happens, if I can answer, is that when you draw down pressure from that high flow, you end up getting a considerable drawdown on the pressure, and it's like a vacuum in the wellbore. And it essentially sucks in all the oil, and it actually starts to deplete the oil supply around the wellbore. And, of course, in the far reaches of the reservoir the pressure is still high, and it takes a while for that pressure to transmit from the edges to the wellbore, itself. So it takes a while for it to build back up.</s>SANCHEZ: David Mattingly standing by as well. David, let me bring you into this conversation. We're here with Professor Van Nieuwenhuise, and, of course, Chad. We've been at this for such a long time. David, is it starting to feel to you out there covering this story like if we're not at the end, we're getting close to the end?</s>DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're definitely in the end game right now, Rick. I mean, every day that goes by, they try to build up just a little bit more confidence that the course of action they've taken with this well is the right one. So far, they're not seeing anything that tells them oh, we're going to have to open this well back up. Even though they're getting prepared for that just in case, at this point they're not seeing anything bad enough to tell them that they've taken a wrong step here. So that in itself is very good news. But you keep hearing Admiral Allen saying the end of this well is that relief well. That's what's going to kill this. Everything they're looking at right now is just temporary.</s>SANCHEZ: Yes, but Chad raised an interesting question. And I'll let him raise it to you, because we talked about this earlier, and I just heard Thad Allen suggest that they're getting ready for that eventuality, and that is that they'd have to start the containment again. Right? That they somehow need to open something up?</s>MYERS: Well, David brought this up. That's where I got the question from, was that it could take three days to open it up to get it back on line, get the Helix Producer back on line, to get the Q4000 back on line. And David, you heard it, right?</s>MATTINGLY: Right.</s>SANCHEZ: Why? Why three days?</s>MATTINGLY: You've got 6,800 pounds of pressure built up in there right now.</s>SANCHEZ: Why three days?</s>MATTINGLY: You've got 6,800 pounds of pressure built up in there right now. It's going to take then a while. They're going to have to vent that out, and then it takes them a while to get everything hooked back up and get those things on the surface working again. Remember how long it took them to get everything working before they started this? They're going to have to start that process again. A lot of those ships are not even in the immediate vicinity at the moment to get them into that 80,000 barrel range. They've had to keep some of those vessels on the perimeter, and sort of waiting because they didn't want any traffic in there while they're conducting all this seismic testing to keep an eye on this well. So, it's just going to take some time. This is a big operation. You keep hearing Thad Allen talking about how there is a lot of moving parts. There are some huge moving parts on the surface of the ocean up there that they've got to get just in the right place, and to work just in concert with each other to make sure everything works efficiently.</s>MYERS: Professor, hey, it's Chad. I have a question for you.</s>SANCHEZ: By the way, just one quick thing, Chad. We are not saying, for those of you just -- I know sometimes you guys get home around this time. You just got home from work and you're hearing David Mattingly sound like he's reporting that they're going to have to redo containment and get all these -- we're not saying that's going to happen. We're saying that's a possibility that they don't want to exclude. There is still a chance that within 24 hours, they'll say this thing is capped well enough, we're going to trust it, we're going to wait until the relief well is done, and they won't have to let any more oil out. Just wanted to get that on the record. Go ahead.</s>MYERS: I just have a random question from, you know, thinking about 48 days ago. Why don't we do a top kill now? We have the oil stopped. Why don't we just pump all that heavy mud in we tried the first time?</s>NIEUWENHUISE: Yes. One of the reasons why they don't want to do that is because that would be very difficult, again, because they're pushing against that 6,800 PSI at the top now. And obviously one thing that I learned in this conference was that the flow lines that they do have connected cannot withstand 6,800</s>PSI. MYERS: Ah-ha.</s>NIEUWENHUISE: And therefore, they couldn't do what you just said because the pipes would not be able to handle that kind of pressure. And so they're going to have to relieve some of the pressure before they can start flowing on those lines that are already connected. And that answers a question that I had about the equipment they had in place.</s>SANCHEZ: David Mattingly has been doing yeoman's work out there following this development from the source. Professor Van Nieuwenhuise has always been there for expert information. And Chad has been taking us along every step of the way on this thing. Well, look, guys, it sounds like we've got another 24-hour wait and then we'll have to reassess and see where we are. But I'll tell you, I don't know if you guys disagree, but everything to me sounds like they're saying the right things for us to remain optimistic.</s>MYERS: The oil stopped.</s>SANCHEZ: So we're good. Professor, we're good?</s>NIEUWENHUISE: Yes. Yes.</s>SANCHEZ: David, good?</s>MATTINGLY: I'd give it a thumbs up so far, Rick.</s>SANCHEZ: OK. We'll wait and see what the really smart guys there at Houston like the professor come out with as they look at this data. If we get any numbers on that we'll share it with you. Meantime, when we come back, the president of the United States came out today all fired up, and he's basically saying to Republicans, you guys are complaining that we're going to bring the deficit up if we give the benefits to the unemployed in the United States, but you don't complain when the deficit goes up when you give tax cuts to the wealthy Americans. You can't have it both ways. That's what the president says. That's his accusations. When we come back, I'm going to ask that question. I'm going to ask Doug Heye if he follows that logic and what the response is to the president from the GOP. That's why we have him here. That's why we have a national conversation. This is your list. I'm Rick Sanchez. We'll be right back.