Debate Over Black History Month
PHILLIPS: Tony Harris working a story for us in the newsroom. Tony, what is going on?</s>TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kyra. We're following reports of a shooting at a Wal-Mart store in Deming, New Mexico. That's very close to the -- the border with New Mexico -- with Mexico. That shooting has been confirmed by a spokeswoman for Wal-Mart. It happened in the vestibule of the store, just a sort of entrance hall between an outer door to the store and the main part of the store itself. And police are on the scene. We don't know if anyone was actually hit in this shooting -- no reports yet of anyone being transported to any area hospitals. And, once again Deming, New Mexico, is about 100 miles northwest of El Paso, Texas. We will continue to keep an eye on this story and report any additional information for you -- Kyra.</s>PHILLIPS: All right, Tony.</s>TONY HARRIS: OK.</s>PHILLIPS: Thanks so much.</s>TONY HARRIS: Sure.</s>PHILLIPS: All right, Tony, this is the debate you have been waiting for. We are talking about Black History Month, just around the corner. But actor Morgan Freeman doesn't find February a time for celebration. In fact, it makes him cringe. Sunday night, on "60 Minutes," he explained why. (</s>BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "60 MINUTES") MIKE WALLACE, "60 MINUTES": Black History Month, you find ridiculous. Why?</s>MORGAN FREEMAN, ACTOR: You going to relegate my history to a month?</s>WALLACE: Oh, come on.</s>FREEMAN: Well, what do you do with yours? Which month is white history month?</s>WALLACE: Well...</s>FREEMAN: Well, come on. Tell me.</s>WALLACE: Well, I'm Jewish.</s>FREEMAN: OK. Which month is Jewish history month?</s>WALLACE: There isn't one.</s>FREEMAN: Oh. Oh. Why not? Do you want one?</s>WALLACE: No. No.</s>FREEMAN: No.</s>FREEMAN: All right. I don't either. I don't want a Black History Month. Black history is American history.</s>WALLACE: How are we going to get rid of racism until...</s>FREEMAN: Stop talking about it. I'm going to stop calling you a white man.</s>WALLACE: Yes.</s>FREEMAN: And I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman. You wouldn't say, well, I -- I know this white guy named Mike Wallace. You know what I'm saying?</s>WALLACE: Uh-huh.</s>PHILLIPS: Joining me now to debate the issue, in Los Angeles, the Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson. He's the author of "Scam: How the Black Leadership Exploits Black America." And, in Chicago, Roland Martin, executive editor of "The Chicago Defender." Gentlemen, great to have you both. Roland, do you agree with Morgan Freeman?</s>ROLAND MARTIN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "CHICAGO DEFENDER": Well, I agree with Morgan Freeman in principle. If we lived in an idealistic world, I would agree with him that black history should be fully integrated with American history. But the reality, it is not. And, so, until we get to that point, I think you need to have a very specific focus on the contributions of African-Americans to this society.</s>PHILLIPS: How is it not integrated?</s>MARTIN: Well, I mean, if you look at the history books, I mean, you have very few stories, very few historical footnotes, that relate to African-Americans. If you go through the history books, clearly, you're going to see something about Martin Luther King's "I have a dream speech" in 1963. You're going to see a passing reference to the civil rights movement. But you're not going to see it fully integrated across the board. And, , I think that's one of the things that -- that -- that we have to have. I mean, we are not an open society. And, so, again, I think that -- and, also look at the story. We're debating whether or not we should get rid of Black History Month, as opposed to what the headline should have been: Black history should be fully integrated into American history.</s>PHILLIPS: Reverend Peterson, do you agree? Do text -- textbooks right now in schools, when our kids are going to school, are they not learning about black history as American history?</s>JESSE LEE PETERSON, BONDINFO.ORG: I agree with Mr. Freeman in that we should include Black History Month as a part of American history. And I also agree that black children are not being taught the greatness of black Americans. You know, black folks played a major part in building this great country. And that should be taught as American history. The problem is, when you have this so-called Black History Month, it causes most black people to feel that they are not Americans, that they are separated from this country. It also divide the races. You know, blacks and whites are now not allowed to come together. And you have the black race's agitators who want it that way.</s>MARTIN: Well, hold on, Jesse. Hold on, Jesse.</s>PETERSON: If it wasn't for -- if it wasn't for the black race's agitators in our country, black history would -- there would be no such thing as black history.</s>MARTIN: Oh, first of all -- first, Kyra -- Kyra...</s>PETERSON: It would be American history.</s>MARTIN: Kyra -- Kyra, first of all, that is nonsense.</s>PETERSON: You're not allowed...</s>PETERSON: Hold on. Hold on. I was quiet while you were speaking. Hold on. You're not allowed to have white history. You're not allowed to have Jewish history. Why are we allowed to have a separatist history called black history? It's ridiculous.</s>MARTIN: But, Jesse, first of all, we're not allowed to have a separate history. The reason we have Black History Month is because it's not fully inclusive. Now, you want to blame this on the so-called black agitators, as opposed to the individuals who...</s>MARTIN: Hold up, Jesse -- who don't want to fully integrate black history in the curriculum. That's what the real issue is.</s>PETERSON: Well, the only people...</s>MARTIN: It has nothing to do with...</s>PETERSON: That's not it.</s>MARTIN: ... the so-called black agitators.</s>PHILLIPS: So, Roland -- wait, gentlemen, gentlemen, if you look, Black History Month has roots to historian Carter Woodson.</s>MARTIN: Yes.</s>PHILLIPS: Woodson's Negro History Week, which he designated in 1926 as the second week in February, to mark the birthdays of Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln. Now, it went on to say that Woodson said that he hoped that week could one day be eliminated when black history would become fundamental...</s>PETERSON: That's right.</s>PHILLIPS: ... to American history.</s>MARTIN: But it's not.</s>PETERSON: And that was Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream as well. He had a dream that, one day, we would become one nation under God. But because of racist organization like the NAACP, the Congressional Black Caucus...</s>MARTIN: Oh, please.</s>PETERSON: ... Jesse Jackson and others, we have not been allowed to come together as one nation.</s>MARTIN: See, Kyra -- see, Kyra...</s>PETERSON: We're not African-Americans. We are Americans. And black folks should be included in American history.</s>PHILLIPS: Now, Roland, he brings...</s>MARTIN: See, Kyra...</s>PHILLIPS: Roland, he brings up an interesting point about, if you start to distinguish, does that create more segregation and hatred and racism?</s>PETERSON: Yes.</s>PHILLIPS: Is that -- do you think that that's a proven fact, if you continue the separation?</s>MARTIN: Well, first of all, the reason you have a targeted focus is because it is excluded. That's why. And, so, if you have...</s>PETERSON: But that's the way you want it.</s>MARTIN: Hold on. Hold on. Jesse, hold -- first of all, Jesse, you're wrong. If you have textbooks, if you have the curriculum, if you have the education in the school system that chooses to fully integrate black history and American history, you won't have...</s>PETERSON: Well, why not fight to...</s>MARTIN: Jesse, one second -- you won't -- you won't have a need for it.</s>PETERSON: ... include that? Why not fight to include American history and get away from the so-called black history?</s>PHILLIPS: First of all, I'm very eager to just walk into a random school now in -- in all different types of neighborhoods see what the textbooks say...</s>PETERSON: Yes.</s>PHILLIPS: ... and what textbooks they are using, because there's probably a variety that have been distributed throughout the United States.</s>MARTIN: Well, actually, actually, actually, Kyra, that's not true.</s>MARTIN: Actually -- hold on. Kyra, that's not really true.</s>PHILLIPS: No?</s>MARTIN: What you have in America is, typically, the way Texas and California goes, because they are the two largest states, they drive how the textbooks are sold across the country.</s>PHILLIPS: Actually, that's an...</s>PHILLIPS: You know, that's an interesting point, because I did do -- do a year of high school in Mobile, Alabama, and the history class I took was Alabama history. That was it, the whole entire...</s>MARTIN: And, of course, when I was in the seventh grade in Texas, I took Texas history. But, again...</s>PETERSON: And, when I was in school, they didn't teach the greatness of black Americans as well. So, it needs to be included. Another thing about Black History Month...</s>MARTIN: When you were in school, they had whites-only fountains.</s>PETERSON: Hold on, sir. Hold on, sir. Another thing about Black History Month, it gives the perception that black folks are suffering because of racism. And that's not true. Most blacks -- not all -- but most black people are suffering today due to the lack of moral character and not racism.</s>MARTIN: OK. See, this is...</s>PETERSON: If we stop talking about racism, then we can move forward in this great country.</s>MARTIN: Jesse, Jesse, Jesse...</s>PHILLIPS: Now, Morgan Freeman...</s>MARTIN: Stop talking about racism is not going to solve it.</s>MARTIN: Stop practicing racism is what is going to end racism.</s>PETERSON: No. Stop talking about it. It's over already.</s>MARTIN: It's over?</s>PETERSON: But you guys want to keep that in the hearts and minds of the folks, in order to use them for your own personal gain.</s>MARTIN: It's over?</s>PETERSON: It's about that.</s>PETERSON: Yes, it's over.</s>MARTIN: You mean to tell -- you mean to tell me that there are not African-Americans who have been discriminated against because of the color of their skin?</s>PETERSON: Well, I agree with you...</s>MARTIN: Jesse, Jesse, one second. Jesse, one second.</s>PETERSON: I agree with you that most black people are racist toward white Americans. But we need to get over that as well.</s>MARTIN: OK. All right. Well, see -- well, see, Kyra, this -- this is the fundamental problem when you have folks like Jesse, who choose...</s>PETERSON: I'm telling the truth.</s>MARTIN: One second -- who chooses to advance an agenda where he wants to attack black organizations. The reality is this. Our school...</s>PETERSON: But...</s>MARTIN: Jesse, one second. Our school systems are not inclusive. You do not have a fully integrated curriculum that teaches people...</s>PETERSON: So, let's fight to include...</s>MARTIN: One second. One second, Jesse.</s>PETERSON: Instead of coming up with a separatist month that focus on blacks only, let's fight to include black folks in American history, so that it can become a part of it.</s>PHILLIPS: Let me ask you guys -- let me move on to another question...</s>MARTIN: Yes.</s>PHILLIPS: ... because I want to ask you about Kwanzaa. I want to see what -- what -- you know, now -- we are in the holiday here, you know, whether it's merry Christmas, happy holidays, all this controversy. Happy Kwanzaa. Should you say happy Kwanzaa? Should you celebrate Kwanzaa? And -- and before I get you -- you two to respond to that, I just want to read the pledge of allegiance, the Kwanzaa -- the Kwanzaa pledge of allegiance. I found this interesting. "We pledge allegiance to the red, black, and green, our flag, the symbol of our eternal struggle, and to the land we must obtain, one nation of black people, with one God of us all, totally united in the struggle for black love, black freedom, and black self-determination." Reverend, what is wrong with -- with saying happy Kwanzaa and celebrating Kwanzaa?</s>PETERSON: That's separatism. It's racist. It's divisive. This so-called Kwanzaa thing was created by a black racist Marxist by the name of Ron Karenga, who felt that Christianity and -- was for the white man and that black folks should not participate and -- in the Christian -- in -- black folks should not be Christians, because Christianity is for the white man. And there is no such thing as Kwanzaa. You can go up and down the coast of Africa, and you're not going to find it.</s>MARTIN: You know, Kyra....</s>PETERSON: Ron Karenga admitted that he made it up. And he made it up because of his dislike of Christians and Jews.</s>MARTIN: Hey, Kyra, here is what I find...</s>PETERSON: No such thing as Kwanzaa.</s>PHILLIPS: I thought it was because he wanted blacks to get in touch with their African roots.</s>MARTIN: Kyra, here's what I...</s>PHILLIPS: Go ahead. Final thoughts, Roland. Final thoughts.</s>MARTIN: Kyra, here's what I find interesting.</s>MARTIN: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on, Jesse. Kyra, you said black love, black self-esteem, black determination -- self-determination. That's...</s>PHILLIPS: Black love, black freedom, and black self- determination.</s>MARTIN: That sounds just like...</s>MARTIN: That sounds just like Jesse's mantra of morals and value. The reality is this here. We have Hanukkah. We have Christmas. We have Kwanzaa. My belief is that, if you choose to celebrate any of those, you should do so. I don't believe that we should...</s>PETERSON: So, you believe in...</s>MARTIN: Jesse, one second.</s>PHILLIPS: Finish your thought. Go ahead, Roland. Finish your thought.</s>MARTIN: I don't believe that we should call Christmas trees holiday trees. We should call them Christmas trees. If you choose to celebrate Kwanzaa, do so. If it's Ramadan, do so. If it's Hanukkah, do so. But the reality is...</s>PETERSON: Christmas is about Christ.</s>PHILLIPS: Gentlemen, we have got to -- have got to leave it there.</s>MARTIN: If you choose to do it, do so.</s>PETERSON: It's merry Christmas. No happy Kwanzaa.</s>PHILLIPS: Happy everything to both of you.</s>PHILLIPS: Reverend Peterson, Roland Martin...</s>MARTIN: Happy Christmas, as far as I'm concerned. But, thanks, Kyra.</s>PHILLIPS: Thanks, guys.</s>MARTIN: Appreciate it.</s>PHILLIPS: Always a pleasure. Straight ahead, teenagers up for adoption face incredible challenges in finding a home. One adoption agency, though, with a revolutionary concept is changing that. Wait until this two, this mother and daughter. Tyisha is excited. We're going to bring you one of its success stories, these two right here. You're going to love them. We will be right back.