'Bitter' Campaign Trail Debate Heats Up
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And, tonight, we begin with breaking news. Barack Obama fighting back hard against charges he slammed the voters of Pennsylvania by calling them bitter. We will play you what he said, what Hillary Clinton said about what he said, the McCain reaction, along with the late and loud reaction from Senator Obama himself. Also, Bill Clinton opening his mouth and reopening the whole Hillary dodging sniper fire story. We have got the latest on that for you, too. Later, more secrets of polygamy revealed and some new details surfacing about another possible accuser. CNN's David Mattingly with all the new developments from Warren Jeffs' polygamist kingdom. Perspective as well from correspondent Michael Watkiss, as well as Carolyn Jessop, a survivor of the Jeffs' FLDS church -- all that and more. First, though, Barack Obama on the offensive tonight, after his recent marks about Pennsylvania voters came to light today, touching off a political storm. He made those remarks last Sunday at a fund- raiser in California. They came in a larger context, Senator Obama talking about how people in Pennsylvania and Ohio have been let down by their government for years. But that's not what sparked the controversy. This is.</s>SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But the truth is, is that our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."</s>HILL: Both the Clinton and the McCain camps were quick to pounce.</s>SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's being reported that my opponent said that the people of Pennsylvania who faced hard times are bitter. Well, that's not my experience. As I travel around Pennsylvania, I meet people who are resilient, who are optimistic, who are positive, who are rolling up their sleeves.</s>HILL: And then this from a senior McCain adviser: "It shows an elitism and condescension toward hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking." The adviser goes on to say, "It's hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans." And then, just moments ago tonight, Barack Obama, wrapping up a rally in Terre Haute, Indiana, where he hit back hard at both the Clinton and McCain allegations. CNN's Candy Crowley was there. She joins us live now. He jumped right into this, Candy. What did he have to say specifically?</s>CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, his explanation for his words. He said listen: What I said was that, for 25 years, working- class Americans have essentially gotten the shaft, that they -- through the Bush administration, through the Clinton administration, everyone kept telling them, help is on the way. Nothing has happened. So, they have grown cynical and they have grown bitter. He said: What I have -- what I said was, then they turn to their religion for help, or they -- they vote on the gun issue, that kind of thing. And then, as you know, Erica, even in politics, the best defense is a really good offense. And that's where he went.</s>HILL: So, he went with the good offense. The Pennsylvania primary, of course, less than two weeks away -- this is what everybody is focused on. How are these comments and the reactions from the other candidates going to come into play?</s>CROWLEY: Well, we will see. You know, you never really know what's going to happen with these things. Like, I have seen many things come up that kind of bubble up to the surface, whether they go through the Internet or sometimes through the press corps, and people talk about, oh, she said this. What does this mean? And they have turned into nothing. I have seen other things that have turned into great, big things. So, right now, obviously, the Clinton and the McCain camps see this as huge. They believe -- they have -- some of their surrogates are out there saying, you know, Obama has lost the campaign. The Clinton campaign is hitting it very hard. But you don't really know how -- we're -- we're kind of in a bubble here, between the politicians and the media. We're not really sure how this is playing in rural communities, how they're taking this. So, it's one of those things you -- you have to wait and see. But, right now, what it really is, between these campaigns, is a political football.</s>HILL: A little bit of tit for tat, it sounds like. I think we actually do have some of that sound available now from the event where Senator Obama spoke earlier. Let's take a quick listen.</s>SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Out of touch?</s>OBAMA: Out of touch? I mean, John McCain, it took him three tries to finally figure out that the home foreclosure crisis was a problem, and to come up with a plan for it, and he's saying, I'm out of touch?</s>OBAMA: Senator -- Senator Clinton voted for a credit card- sponsored bankruptcy bill that made it harder for people to get out of debt, after taking money from the financial services company, and she says I'm out of touch? No, I'm in touch. I know exactly what's going on.</s>HILL: So, there's the offense that you mentioned, Candy. Broadening this out -- I'm going to make you get your crystal ball out again once more here -- is this something that you imagine could come back even in the general election, come back into play?</s>CROWLEY: Oh, sure. Anything that hurts either of these candidates, either Clinton or Obama, or, for that matter, John McCain, anything that hurts them now is going to come back double when they get to the general election campaign, because then it is one party against another. The stakes are the White House, and it really ratchets these things up. And you can't imagine the things that come back to haunt these candidates from the primary season.</s>HILL: That's when we could really see some bitterness, I think.</s>HILL: Candy Crowley, always -- always good to have you with us. We want to get some perspective now from CNN contributors Roland Martin and CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger. Good to have you both here. We start off with this. Looking at, Gloria, the gap -- we were hearing about the gap narrowing in Pennsylvania, that Hillary Clinton was closing in a little bit. What's going to happen now in Pennsylvania, two weeks away? How much of an impact?</s>GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think anything happen -- can happen in the last days of a political campaign. And, as you were saying, the polls are narrowing. Obama is closing in on a little bit on Hillary Clinton. And, so, every word is parsed. I think what you played earlier that Obama said was inartfully stated. He clearly came out fighting this evening. He now knows what it's like to fight against two opponents, instead of just one, because he's also battling John McCain. And, in his original statement, he managed to lump together every hot point in American politics. You talk about the economy. You talk about immigration. You talked about religion. He talked about guns. He talked about everything in there that gave folks the opportunity to pounce on him, which is exactly what you would expect at this point in a political campaign. And I would guess that those folks who don't like Barack Obama might see something sinister in this and say that, in fact, he's an elitist and was talking down to rural America or talking down to blue- color voters. And those folks who like Barack Obama are going to see something else.</s>HILL: So, Roland Martin, when you look at this, is this going to help or hurt overall?</s>ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The only way we're going to know if this is going to help overall is what happens with folks like me and Gloria on this network and others, who are columnists...</s>HILL: So, it's all up to the two of you? You two are now deciding Pennsylvania?</s>MARTIN: No. No. Really, what it points to, because what happens is, you can look at his statement and look at it in many different ways. For instance, when he made the comment about religion, in terms of people who cling to religion, I called several pastors between when I was on "LOU DOBBS" earlier tonight and A.C. 360, and the pastors said, look, when the economy is tough, guess what? We have got more people at the altar call or are calling me for prayer. When the economy is good, you might see them at Bible study on Wednesday. Then you might not. People are going to see it in different ways. But you what? Something that is very interesting, earlier on "LOU DOBBS," Robert Zimmerman was asked by Kitty Pilgrim, on a scale of one to 10, what is this? He said, it's an 11. No, Eliot Spitzer with a prostitute, that is an 11.</s>MARTIN: This is not an 11. But, again, you see what happens when an issue gets framed by various pundits. And then the people begin to pick up on that. We will see probably in 48 hours how that all plays out.</s>HILL: Right. Yes, the way issues get framed, I believe we call that politics.</s>BORGER: Yes.</s>HILL: But looking a little bit closer, let's broaden this out to the responses that were given. Gloria, were they appropriate? Were they what you expected? I mean, they were quick this time around.</s>BORGER: Well, you have to be quick. I mean, you're heading into a -- into Pennsylvania on April 22.</s>HILL: But it is admittedly getting -- getting -- getting much faster...</s>BORGER: Yes, absolutely.</s>MARTIN: Oh, absolutely.</s>BORGER: And, you know, the Clinton campaign -- the funny thing about this was, the Clinton campaign pounced on this right away, obviously. The McCain campaign pounced on it. Tonight, my BlackBerry was buzzing with an e-mail from a Clinton campaign spokesman quoting Republicans saying that this is over.</s>MARTIN: Now, that was fun.</s>HILL: I saw that same e-mail.</s>HILL: They're sending out those talking points.</s>BORGER: So, you know, they will take the support wherever they can get it. Obama came out fighting, but there is going to be a fight over this, because his original words are not exactly what he said tonight in explaining them. He's going to have a little bit more explaining to do, I think.</s>HILL: A little more explaining, too. I want to make sure we get this in tonight. There's been a lot of talk today about the Clinton camp, because former President Bill Clinton speaking out recently and talking about that mistake that had got so much attention that Hillary Clinton was talking about what actually happened when that plane landed in Bosnia. I'm not sure that we have the sound, so I'm just going to -- so I'm just going to read for you what he said yesterday: "A lot of the way this whole campaign has been covered has amused me. But there was a lot of fulminating because Hillary, one time, late at night, misstated -- and immediately apologized for it -- what happened to her in Bosnia in 1995." Critics pouncing on that, of course, because it didn't happen one time. It happened several times. It happened in the morning, not late at night. Roland Martin, how damaging is this to the Clinton campaign? Because Senator Clinton really came out, it sounded like, and chastised her husband again.</s>MARTIN: How about this, Bill Clinton; he was tired and was exhausted when he made that comment saying she was tired and exhausted? I know -- Hillary Clinton is probably saying, Bill, do me a favor. Shut up. Please. just be quiet.</s>MARTIN: I mean, she successfully got away from this. It died down. Then, all of a sudden, he brings it back up. I mean, I think what she probably is going to do is, she's probably going to send him a BlackBerry e-mail every day: Here are the three things you're talking about. And if you get off that, you will get spanked. That's what needs to happen to Bill Clinton.</s>BORGER: Are you saying that the former president of the United States needs talking points, Roland?</s>MARTIN: Yes. He needs...</s>BORGER: Yes.</s>MARTIN: He needs a David Letterman-like placard: Only say these three things, Bill. That's it.</s>BORGER: You know, the thing that surprises me, honestly, is how rusty Bill Clinton is at campaigning. He -- when I covered him, he was the best campaigner I had ever seen and probably will ever see. But he has gotten a little rusty, and he gets off the talking points once in a while.</s>HILL: We will see if he can stick to them.</s>MARTIN: When you got all that money, you get rusty.</s>HILL: We're going to have to leave it there, guys. We're out of time.</s>HILL: Roland, Gloria, thank you both.</s>MARTIN: Thanks, Erica.</s>HILL: We do want to mention a quick programming note, too. Sunday night, here on CNN, Senators Clinton and Obama will face the hard questions on faith and politics. Campbell Brown leads the Compassion Forum Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN. And also a reminder for you: I am blogging tonight. I swear, I'm going to get there. To join the conversation, log on to CNN.com/360. Just ahead: new developments out of the Warren Jeffs' polygamist sect, reports of another young women coming forward. We are going to update you on that developing story. And then later, a closer look at the practice of polygamy beyond the headlines, outside Jeffs' FLDS sect. Gary Tuchman has that.</s>GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And the kids, the range, how many kids?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than 30. All my kids are sweethearts.