Man Who Fathered Child at 13 Years of Age Wants the Mother Locked Up
DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: A young man who fathered a child at 13 years of age wants the mother of that baby locked up. He says the child was conceived at a party where he was given alcohol and then sexually assaulted.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 13 year old who looks and plays like a big brother is this toddler`s dad. At 13 years old, Josh Hazelrig became a father. He met the then 19-year-old mother during a sleepover at a friend`s house.</s>JOSH HAZELRIG, FATHERED A CHILD AT 13 YEARS OF AGE: That I was 13 and I was -- I was -- there was alcohol supplied so I was not of the right state of mind.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well below the age of consent, Josh is a sexual assault victim.</s>HAZELRIG: And I know what sex is but I never thought of the risk of not using a condom. I was never thinking about the risk of having the child.</s>KIMBERLY HAZELRIG, MOTHER OF 15-YEAR-OLD TEEN FATHER: I think it was a manipulative game played on a 13-year-old little boy.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wants the justice system to treat him as a victim of statutory rape.</s>PINSKY: And that woman, the perpetrator, is now 21 years old. She`s charged with sexual assault and child abuse. The boy whom you saw there is now 15 and raising their son with his mother. Joining us, Sara Azari, criminal defense attorney, AnneElise Goetz, attorney, Stacy Kaiser, psychotherapist, and Michael Catherwood, my KBC radio co-host. Josh`s mother says he had been manipulated as she said there in that tape. AnneElise, do you agree with that?</s>ANNEELISE GOETZ, BUSINESS LAW ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely I agree with that. We`re talking about a 13-year-old child -- child, Dr. Drew. The age of consent in Nebraska is 15. The reason we have laws like this is because children are not mature enough and able to make the decision, able to have informed consent, IE. We have rape and someone needs to go to jail.</s>PINSKY: But Sarah, you`re not as forgiving about the story. Tell me about this.</s>SARA AZARI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m not. Because again, as you know, and please don`t pick up your plastic brain. There is a difference between the cases with 50-year-old uncles and their 12-year-old nieces. In this type of a case, why is this kid at a sleepover where there`s alcohol and older teenagers? Why? Where are his parents in this?</s>PINSKY: But parents are part of at least what? Parents are part of collateral issue but still there`s a perpetrator. Yeah, it doesn`t matter.</s>GOETZ: It doesn`t matter. Honestly.</s>AZARI: Well.</s>GOETZ: It doesn`t matter what the parents are doing. We certainly shouldn`t be casting blame on the parents of this child who is now raising another child because someone else raped him. That is not the parents` fault.</s>AZARI: My point is that the numeric age is not the end and be all to this. It -- it matters as emotional maturity...</s>PINSKY: He`s 13. Oh, Sara.</s>AZARI: So what? And the 19 year old could really be 16 mentally.</s>PINSKY: Sara. I don`t -- okay. Listen. I spoke to Josh`s mom about how he is coping with the trauma around this event. Stacy, you and I will get to that in a minute. And how he is able to adjust to life. He`s 15. How he deals with fatherhood at age 15. Have a look.</s>PINSKY: When you found out he was a young teenager when this all happened, what did you think?</s>HAZELRIG: That my son`s world had just been flipped upside down.</s>PINSKY: Yeah. How was he during his adolescence? Did he have a lot of behavioral problems?</s>HAZELRIG: No. Joshua had no behavioral problem. I called him my kid of liquid gold. Anything he touched he excelled in.</s>PINSKY: When he first talked to you about it, did he understand that he had been the object of really sexual abuse?</s>HAZELRIG: Yes, he did. In fact, you know, he even told the biological mother when she contacted him saying there was a possibility that it was his son, that it was statutory rape. He`s always looked at it as him being a victim and, you know, this wasn`t right.</s>PINSKY: Yeah. A lot of young men at first think it`s sort of cool when they go through something like this but magically they`re kind of ashamed and don`t tell anybody because they`re very ambivalent about it. And then when they realize as an adult themselves that somebody perpetrated, a lot of heavy feelings can emerge. Did anything like that happen to him?</s>HAZELRIG: Joshua internalizes in a lot of what he feels. He is refusing to do any counseling or anything like that.</s>PINSKY: Okay.</s>HAZELRIG: So as far as knowing what`s going down deep inside of him, I`m unaware at this time if he had internalized everything.</s>PINSKY: Where do you hope this whole thing goes?</s>HAZELRIG: Our end goal is for Joshua to have custody, with me being temporary guardian until Joshua is done attaining his career goals.</s>PINSKY: Okay. Kim, is there anything else you would like people to know about this experience?</s>HAZELRIG: Just the trauma that it`s put a little kid through.</s>PINSKY: Tell me about your grandson, your grandchild?</s>HAZELRIG: Well, my grandson and my child. It`s in a way hijacked his future.</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>HAZELRIG: Because everything -- his son comes first, you know, and where most 15-year-olds are out playing, Josh has to come home and be a father.</s>PINSKY: Yeah.</s>HAZELRIG: And it really affected his life.</s>PINSKY: Well, Kim, thank you for talking to us about it. Thank you for being so supportive of both Josh and his son. Thank you so much.</s>PINSKY: Ironically after I spoke to her this morning, she did report that there suddenly seemed to be some behavior issues. Maybe they`ve been there before. She wasn`t really looking for them. And Stacy, you also heard her say that he suppresses his emotions, he refused any type of counseling. That didn`t tend to go well.</s>STACY KAISER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: No, but actually worries me a great deal. Typically when people are actually suffering from a trauma and oftentimes young boys, they will shut down. And so part of what we`re seeing is that he actually is being traumatized. It`s just he`s not letting it out. If I was his mom, I would make him go to counseling. Even though he`s a father, he`s still a young boy, and he needs some guidance and direction.</s>PINSKY: I mean what 15-year-old has sort of, you know, deep expressive emotion? 15-year-old males are shut down normally. You traumatize them and they are really shut down. Mike?</s>MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, TALK SHOW HOST: What male? What male has open emotions? Really, I mean...</s>PINSKY: That`s right. 15 is when really that biology really kicks in. But Mike, you actually went through a similar story and I would wonder if you would be able to share that.</s>CATHERWOOD: Yeah. I mean almost -- almost exactly. That`s how I lost my virginity. I was around 13 at the time and the young lady who I was involved with, she was 19. I did not end up fathering a child from that...</s>PINSKY: Thank God.</s>CATHERWOOD: ... from that exercise, which is shocking because I`m Mexican. You know, we would have thought that maybe my blood would have made that one a touchdown. But I -- I going into it was so excited at the idea of having sex. I mean, I really, as most middle school boys are, that is the paramount objective of everything that goes through your mind, is the idea of how can I have sex. I was so charged up and immediately after it happened I certainly couldn`t regulate my feelings at 13, but I knew something wasn`t right and I knew that -- it was so awkward for me that I never even talked about it until I was like in my 30s and we were on "love line" when I first opened up about it, and that`s when you informed me that it was, in fact, rape, which made me feel great.</s>PINSKY: Well, but to be -- to be fair, I mean, we were just pointing out what it was and then the feelings were able to kind of emerge as a result, right?</s>CATHERWOOD: Yeah. And I think that in the original analysis of it, Sara and AnneElise, right? I mean, a 13-year-old boy I think oftentimes because of the gender when the perpetrator is a woman and the younger kind of victim is a man, we all kind of sit aside and go, well, I`m sure he probably really wanted it. And chances are that`s true. But it doesn`t mean that a 13-year-old boy`s brain is in any way capable of dealing with sexual interaction.</s>AZARI: And also, I don`t -- I`m not gonna -- alcohol is not a defense to this, but we`ve talked about this before with other cases in that there is something to say about the presence of alcohol in this scenario. She probably was drinking, too. It`s not a defense for her. He was drinking as well by his own admission and it clearly doesn`t take away from the trauma that he experienced. So, you know, the alcohol is also a problem and I`m actually perplexed that there is no furnishing alcohol to a minor charge.</s>PINSKY: Right. Maybe they don`t know who furnished it. No one`s coming for it obviously.</s>AZARI: Probably.</s>CATHERWOOD: I -- I can`t really blame this young man`s parents in this because I know from my experience, you`re definitely not letting your parents know that you`re going to a party where there`s going to be booze and potential vagina.</s>PINSKY: Stacy, go ahead.</s>KAISER: I was just gonna say that I don`t blame the parents. As a matter of fact, I give the parents a lot of credit. They really stepped up, they`ve taken charge, they`re helping to raise this kid. What I do give parents warning about is we have to educate our kids about alcohol from a really young age. We have to talk to them about sex, about handling things, about the fact that someone who is 19 years old is a perpetrator. She`s not just a hot young woman who`s having alcohol with you.</s>PINSKY: And do not make it normal for adults to serve alcohol at teenage parties. That should be a zero tolerance. I`m sorry. It will happen but it needs to be a zero tolerance nonetheless. This conversation continues. And Later, a baby burned alive by her own mother in a 600-degree oven years ago now asked jailers to keep her locked up. Keep that mother locked up. We`ll talk about that after this.