Crossing Trump's Red Line; Trump's Calls to Mexican President and Aussie P.M. Leaked
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There were no Russians in our campaign. There never were. We didn't win because of Russia. We won because of you, that I can tell you.</s>BERMAN: President Trump railing against the Russia investigation at a campaign rally in West Virginia last night, calling it a total fabrication. But, Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation is widening, not winding down. Joining me to discuss, Democratic Sen. Ben Cardin of Maryland. He's the ranking member on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, you heard the president right there tell a campaign rally in West Virginia we didn't win this campaign because of Russia, we won because of you. Is he right?</s>SEN. BEN CARDIN (D-MD), RANKING MEMBER, FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Well, John, first, it's good to be with you. There is no question that Russia tried to influence our election. That is now well established. They tried to influence the election in favor of Mr. Trump. There were many connections between Russia and representatives of the Trump campaign. The investigations that are taking place are going to give us some of those answers. But there is no question that Russia was active in our last election.</s>BERMAN: So -- but you're not suggesting that the president won the election because of Russia because that's what he told the crowd last night.</s>CARDIN: No, I'm not suggesting the outcome was determined by Russia, but we do know that Russia tried to influence the outcome of our election. That's a very serious matter. And we also know there were contacts made with representatives of the Trump campaign. That's very disturbing. So the investigation will give us, I hope, the answers for two reasons. People need to be held accountable but we also need to protect ourselves against further activities from Russia. They're clearly going to try this again in the future and we've got to protect our democratic system of government.</s>BERMAN: There were major developments in the last 24 hours, at least major developments that we learned about with the last 24 hours here. One is that a grand jury is issuing subpoenas in this case for data, documents, and witness testimony in the Russia investigation. And, CNN also learning that the investigation is delving into the president's finances -- looking into the Trump Organization some. Now, Kellyanne Conway suggested overnight that this could be considered a fishing expedition. Jay Sekulow, who is the president's private attorney, suggested that this might be outside the purview, outside the scope of the investigation. What's your reaction to that?</s>CARDIN: Well, Mr. Mueller needs to follow all leads. Information that he determines needs to be further investigated, he has an obligation to follow that information. He just can't let it sit on the table, so that's his responsibility to make sure that all the questions are answered. We don't know where this is leading. We don't want to prejudge it but we do know that there are very troubling signs. And it would be helpful if the president would acknowledge Russia's involvement in our elections. He's -- he always tries to indicate there was no involvement. There was.</s>BERMAN: We'll get to the president on how much pressure he's putting on Russia in just a moment, but I do want to stay on the finances here. How far is too far? Should there be a limit into how much Robert Mueller should look into or could look into, in terms of the president's finances?</s>CARDIN: Well, clearly, there has to be information that was obtained as a result of this investigation. He can't start a new investigation for different reasons. That would be handled through the Justice Department in a different manner if additional information is discovered. But what he needs to do is have a thorough investigation --</s>BERMAN: If it has --</s>CARDIN: -- into all the connections with Russia.</s>BERMAN: If he turns up financial improprieties that have nothing to do with Russia, are those legitimate things -- threads to pull on?</s>CARDIN: Well, he will make the judgment whether it's important for him to do it as far as his investigation or whether he will recommend a separate investigation on a matter that's not related to his original charge. That's a decision that will be made by Mr. Mueller.</s>BERMAN: All right. On the subject of Russia, the president wrote about Russia. He was talking about the sanctions imposed by Congress, a bill signed by the president and you were very active in pushing these sanctions through the Senate and also one through the House, as well. This is what the president wrote about this. He said, "Our relationship with Russia is at an all-time and very dangerous low. You can thank Congress, the same people that can't even give us health care." He blamed Congress for the bad relationship with Russia. Bill Kristol, over at "The Weekly Standard," noted he's blaming America, it seems, for what Russia has done.</s>CARDIN: Well, that's exactly right. Russia's responsible for the deterioration of the relationship between the United States and Russia. Russia attacked us in our election system. Russia has invaded other countries in Europe. Russia is interfering in a peaceful way to end the conflict in Syria. It's Russia's activities that have caused this relationship. What Congress did was give the president a stronger hand in dealing with Mr. Putin. Now it's up to the president to use the cards that we've dealt to him to make it clear to Mr. Putin that the United States will lead with our European allies and isolate Russia economically if they don't change their behavior.</s>BERMAN: We learned yesterday that the president thought he had a very pleasant phone call with Vladimir Putin early on in the administration. There were leaked transcripts of phone calls that the president had with the president of Mexico, the prime minister of Australia on January 27th and 28th, shortly after he was inaugurated. Just first and foremost, are you comfortable that these transcripts were leaked?</s>CARDIN: No. I don't think the transcripts should have been leaked. We've had reports on both -- on the Australian call was well reported so I don't think it was a surprise to read the transcripts. In regards to Mexico, there was new revelations. But those transcripts should have never been released, but they're not surprising. I think we all understand it. We know that Mr. Trump is very sensitive about the wall. We know he has no support in the Congress to build a wall on our total border. So it's not a surprise to hear what's in it but that information should not have been leaked.</s>BERMAN: Well look, I have spoken to Republican congressmen who are supportive of a wall in some form. Leave that aside for a moment. I just want to be clear here that you think that the leaking of these transcripts could have a chilling effect on a president -- any president's willingness to have private conversations with foreign leaders.</s>CARDIN: Oh, I think it also works that foreign leaders will be concerned about what they say to the President of the United States because they made read it in the paper. So I think it has a chilling effect on the candid discussions between world leaders talking with the President of the United States. I agree with that. But let me -- to repeat, the wall. I don't think you're going to find a lot of support in Congress that we think Mexico's going to pay for our southern wall.</s>BERMAN: Well look, and the Mexican leader has made clear he's not going to pay for it and in his conversation he said --</s>CARDIN: No.</s>BERMAN: -- that he's not going to pay for it. And what came out is the president asked him repeatedly just stop talking about the fact that you won't pay for it --</s>CARDIN: Yes.</s>BERMAN: -- because it puts me in a bind. Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it.</s>CARDIN: Thank you.</s>BERMAN: Alisyn --</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, John. A little sports for you.</s>BERMAN: Really?</s>CAMEROTA: Yes. Up next, a pair of rain delays could not dampen the competition between the Cubs and the Diamondbacks. Highlights in a -- what's that? What's happening there? I like dance moves during sports. We have highlights in the "Bleacher Report."