John Dean Testifies Before Congress; Rep. Justin Amash Steps Down From House Freedom Caucus; GOP Lawmakers Takes Jab On John Dean; DOJ And House Democrats Agree Over Mueller Report; Justice Department Turning Over More Of Robert Mueller's Evidence
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. John Dean, the former White House counsel of President Richard Nixon testifying today before the House Judiciary Committee. Dean of course was the start witness during the Watergate scandal decades ago. And now he's telling Congress he sees striking similarities between Nixon and President Trump.</s>JOHN DEAN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL FOR PRESIDENT NIXON: I would say the Trump administration is in fast competition with what happened in the Nixon administration.</s>MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don. Now, Democrats have had a hard time getting the witnesses that they want. People who are named in the Mueller report to actually cooperate with their committee because the White House has interfered as well as the special counsel, Robert Mueller, has said that he does not want to appear in public before the House Judiciary Committee. Thus, negotiations continue behind the scenes. So at the moment Democrats are settling on another strategy to bring in people who have prior knowledge about other criminal acts in office including what happened during Watergate with President Nixon.</s>RAJU (voice-over): With their party divided over impeachment proceedings, Democrats today began the challenge of spotlighting what's in the Mueller report without the key witnesses who have first- hand knowledge. Their first witness, former White House counsel, John Dean, who played a key role in bringing down President Richard Nixon 46 years ago.</s>DEAN: The last time I appeared before your committee was July 11, 1974, during the impeachment inquiry of Richard Nixon. Clearly I'm not here today as a fact witness. In many ways, the Mueller report is to President Trump what the so-called Watergate road map stated a little differently, Special Counsel Mueller has provided this committee with a road map.</s>RAJU (voice-over): Dean detailing what he sees as clear parallels between Nixon and Trump.</s>REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D), CALIFORNIA: Comparing Nixon to just any future administration, would you say there was a future administration that committed more crimes than the Nixon administration as far as obstruction?</s>DEAN: I would say the Trump administration is in fast competition with what happened in the Nixon administration.</s>RAJU (voice-over): The former U.S. attorney testifying that Trump would have been prosecuted if he were not protected by Justice Department guidelines saying a sitting president cannot be indicted.</s>JOYCE WHITE VANCE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY TO THE NORTHERN DISTRCIT OF ALABAMAL: The facts contained in that report would be sufficient to prove all of the elements necessary to charge multiple counts of obstruction of justice. I would have confidence that the evidence would be sufficient to obtain a guilty verdict and to win on appeal.</s>RAJU (voice-over): Republicans assail the witness' credibility.</s>REP. ANDY BIGGS (R-AZ): You're no fall guy in the Watergate scandal. The FBI referred to you as the master manipulator of the cover up.</s>DEAN: Incorrect.</s>BIGGS: U.S. attorney said you were at the center of the criminality.</s>DEAN: Mr. Biggs, if I might. I did my best to tell the truth when I was asked. I did my best internally to break up the Watergate cover up when I realized we were on the wrong side of the law.</s>REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Wait a second. Mr. Dean has made a cottage industry out of accusing presidents of acting like Richard Nixon.</s>DEAN: Mr. Gaetz, I appreciate you were not born at the time that this all happened.</s>RAJU (voice-over): The hearings come amid a tense Democratic debate over whether to formally begin impeachment proceedings, which now is supported by chairman of the committee, Jerry Nadler and a number of members on his panel.</s>REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D), MARYLAND: The president repeatedly tried to interfere in the ongoing criminal investigation. He tried to fire the Special Counsel. He wanted to lie about the Special Counsel and say that he had conflicts of interest. The clock is ticking.</s>RAJU (on camera): What problem is there if you guys continue your current course of action?</s>REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN): The problem is we may not be able to get the witnesses we want.</s>RAJU (on camera): Now Don, one reason why some Democrats have called for impeachment is what they view as stonewalling from this administration, not turning over documents. But there was a development today over the Justice Department did agree to provide some documents related to the Mueller probe, allow the House Judiciary Committee members and staff to go over the department, review those materials to try to satisfy these demands and head off a threat holding Bill Barr in contempt. Democrat staff and Republican staff have begun to review these documents. I'm told and the full House will still vote tomorrow to authorize the Judiciary Committee to go to court if necessary to compel the Justice Department to comply with their demands and also to try to get Don McGahn, the former White House counsel under President Trump, to come before the committee. He of course has defied a subpoena under the instruction from the White House. So Democrats are saying today's hearing was just the beginning of their fight to get a full access to a range of materials from the Mueller report and they're warning they'll probably go to court if necessary, Don.</s>LEMON: Manu, thank you very much for that. Let's discuss all of this now. Frank Bruni's here, Jennifer Rodgers, Max Boot, author of "The Corrosion of Conservatism: Why I Left the Right. Also with me, Michael D'Antonio, the author of "The Truth About Trump." So good to have all of you on. Thank you so much and everyone's in house. My house. It's a full house. So today's televised hearing, Frank, is supposed to drive home to the American people exactly what was in the 448-page Mueller report. Do you think it accomplish that?</s>FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't know that it did accomplish that. I mean, Don, this is a very, very strange hearing that happened today because this is not the hearing that the committee wants to have. This is not -- all due respect to John Dean -- it's not the witness they want to hear from. He's not bringing them new information or sharing information about what Trump did or didn't do with the American people. He's simply offering historical perspective and opinion.</s>LEMON: And you know what, and I'm watching. I didn't see it because of the breaking news.</s>BRUNI: Well, yes, exactly. And that stepped on it as well. So, I think this was a holding pattern and a kind of stalling technique by Democrats who don't want to give this up yet, but can't get the witnesses and hearings they want. And so I don't think what happened today is, at the end of the -- when all is said and done, going to have a huge impact.</s>LEMON: Jennifer, you heard John Dean say that he believes that the Special Counsel provided the judiciary committee with a road map. But my question, how do Democrats, I mean, how do they follow this road map if the White House continues to stall at every turn? As you saw, the first witness was John Dean. Everyone else who would be a good witness said no, why a better witness I should say than all the witness the Democrats wanted would said no and not there.</s>JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right. So they need the evidence to put it into the hearing, right. So you can't just, you know, put the report in and call it a day. You actually get (inaudible) to get the underlying information, the documents, the witnesses and so on. So that's what they've been trying to do. Apparently there's a bit of a break through today and obviously what actually come over. But they can't do it with just the report so, you know, that's what they're looking for, is the underlying evidence. They really can't start without it. And it's been two and half months since the Mueller report was turned over and they haven't gotten evidence that they've been entitled to for that entire two and half months.</s>LEMON: Yes. Never going to get it.</s>RODGERS: Yes, they will get it. And the problem is that there is no legal leg to stand on to hold it back. So, if they were in court, they would have gotten it already. But this whole negotiation that's been going on has been stalling everything. That really is the problem here. They have to negotiate in good faith. The White House is not acting on good faith and so they're stuck with that situation.</s>LEMON: Max, ahead (inaudible) for "The New York Times" and he told me that seems Republicans had been talking to Democrats with the fact that Mueller isn't going to testify -- isn't testifying. Is that how you see it? Is this giving the GOP the upper hand here?</s>MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I certainly think the stonewall, Don, has been surprisingly successful. I mean, as Jennifer mentioned, it's been more than two and a half months since Mueller filed his report. And if you would ask me ahead of time, two and half months after the report are we going to be in a situation where Mueller doesn't testify, McGahn doesn't testify, nobody of consequence testifies, I would not have expected that to be the case. In fact, they've done -- the White House has done -- been pretty skillful at stringing this out and avoiding the kind off deeply embarrassing hearings with the whole nation focuses in on the wrong doing that Trump is accused of, and they've managed to evade that so far. To my mind, the biggest surprise of all is that Mueller is being so uncooperative with Congress, that he does not want to testify. He wants, I mean, you saw how much attention he got even with a 10-minute statement, he riveted public attention in a way that, you know, sadly putting John Dean up there, is not going to do.</s>LEMON: What do you think is stopping Democrats from subpoenaing Mueller right now?</s>BOOT: Well, that's a great question. I mean, I think that they've been in negotiations with them and I think they want to avoid a hostile situation with him. They want him to be there voluntarily so that he'll feel good about it and will be able to say as much as possible within the parameters that have been laid down for him. But I think they need to push this along and say hey, we don't have -- this is not indefinite. Sooner or later we need to have Mueller up there, even if he doesn't go much beyond what's in the report. We saw with his 10-minute statement, even simply going on T.V. and having Mueller recite basically what those of us who read the report already know what's there. Even that is very consequential because it grabs the attention of so many people around the country who have not read the report including frankly a lot of members of Congress. And you just had a member yesterday who admitted in an interview I have not read the report. This is very common so I think it's incredibly important to have Mueller testify.</s>LEMON: Let's play more of what John Dean said today.</s>DEAN: Congressman, when I worked for Mr. Nixon, I was really never worried about what the outcome would be and how it would be resolved. I've got to tell you that from the day Mr. Trump was nominated and I was following in a separate set of polls, "The Los Angeles Times" as well as the Monmouth Polls. And it looked pretty clear to these pollsters that Mr. Trump had a very good chance of winning. And I began developing a knot in my stomach that sits there to this day. So I'm trying to deal with that in the best way I can to try to tell people these are troubled times and we should go through these processes and sort them out. So, anything I can do to add to the process, I'm more than willing.</s>LEMON: Did he add to the process or was this a mock impeachment hearing as Republicans say?</s>MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I don't think he added very much. And I think there was a problem with him announcing that he was testifying because he had this knot in his stomach. He really should have been testifying as a public service and because he was called to testify. And then we might have a little -- a different perspective on what he had to say. But I think there are a number of things going on here. We have a president and a team behind him who actually feel that Richard Nixon didn't go far enough in resisting Congress. They looked back at this history and think, oh, Nixon wasn't tough enough, we're going to be tougher. So we now have a stonewall presidency. They're not giving Congress anyone to testify about almost anything. So he's -- they're daring Congress to go to court with this and we've talked a lot about constitutional crisis. But this would bring to us to an actual constitutional crisis if the legislative branch and executive branch face off in the judiciary. So, we're now hurdling towards I think a more extreme conflict than we've had with Nixon and Watergate and I'm not sure the president really minds. I think he sees this paying off for him politically.</s>LEMON: Well, you know, he's been paying attention to this especially to the John Dean testifying to the heed (ph) and responded, but there would have bun a lot more coverage of this if it were not for the breaking news, but I mean, hearings like this are not going to go away. How do you think Trump will handle that?</s>D'ANTONIO: Oh, I think he's going to rage like this, but you know, there is also the impending deadline or 2020. So they're stalling. They want to I think get to the election and have everyone think well, we're not going to pick on the president especially hard because he's in an election battle. I think Nancy Pelosi is playing the same game. She's trying to figure out how do I get to 2020 in the best condition possible. So, the American public is going to be treated to an extraordinary political spectacle and maybe not get at the truth until after the election.</s>LEMON: OK, hold that thought because we have a lot more to talk about when we come back. Don't go anywhere.