Syrian Foreign Minister Clashes With U.S. Ambassador
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Middle Eastern conflict is one of the most thorny and longest conflicts in the world perhaps or at least in the 20th century.</s>ROTH: Stirring the pot this week, Syria's Foreign Minister Farouk al- Shara. A U.N. visit because his country is president of the Security Council this month. This Mideast situation could fill dozens of pot-boiler novels. Our human bookends are here, James Bone of the "Times of London" and Afsane Bassir Pour of "Le Monde" at the United Nations. Afsane, while we have you up there. What happened inside a closed door meeting inside the Security Council when the Syrian foreign minister clashed with U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte on the Middle East, which was the subject of this discussion.</s>AFSANE BASSIR POUR, "LE MONDE": Well, nothing much happened, of course, because first of all, it was interesting that the meeting was closed because usually this kind of debates are open debates, but the Syrians didn't want an open debate. And apparently, as you -- as you just said, you know, the most interesting thing that happened was that the American ambassador openly attacked the Syrians, accusing Syria of supporting terrorism and of not condemning the suicide bombings.</s>ROTH: I mean, interesting timing considering ...</s>BASSIR POUR: So ...</s>ROTH: ... that Syria was supposedly being credited for helping the U.S. on terrorism, James.</s>JAMES BONE, "TIMES OF LONDON": Well, we talked about it a couple of weeks ago, but it's being confirmed now that Syria's holding a German national who's meant to be a leading figure in al Qaeda, and he's cooperating with the Americans. So Syria has a little bit of counter weight with the Americans and the Americans need his cooperation.</s>ROTH: The foreign minister said at the press conference he gave on Friday that Syria has -- quote -- "saved American lives". Iraq, our next subject, the U.N. Security Council has been asked by Secretary-General Annan acting as an intermediary for Baghdad that Iraq has, you know, maybe 20 questions we've talked about for months now that they would like resolved before this -- there's any real progress. And even on Friday, Iraqi newspapers and officials are putting out the word that there's really no hope unless they get some clarification. Secretary- General Annan...</s>BASSIR POUR: But ...</s>ROTH: ... seemed to hint about this when he emerged from the Security Council -- Afsane.</s>BASSIR POUR: Well, you know, as you know, there are going to be the second round of talks between Iraq -- between the Iraqis and the secretary- general in Vienna on third -- on 4th of July. The main subject is ...</s>ROTH: Fourth and fifth...</s>BASSIR POUR: ... still ...</s>ROTH: ... fourth and fifth, it's an American holiday. Let's get it right. Fourth and fifth ...</s>BASSIR POUR: Sorry, fourth and fifth ...</s>ROTH: ... in Europe, though.</s>BASSIR POUR: ... and the main subject, of course, is the return of disarmament inspectors. Now what is hovering all this is U.S., you know, threats to attack Iraq and this preemptive strike doctrine. Now at the U.N., actually, they're hoping that all this talk of war will persuade Iraq to accept the inspectors.</s>BONE: Actually ...</s>BASSIR POUR: This is one of the options.</s>BONE: ... I hear, Afsane, that U.N. are actually very pessimistic about this nature on the talks...</s>BASSIR POUR: They are, they are.</s>BONE: ... and in fact, Kofi Annan, who's been very dovish on the whole thing made the point that these talks, which are in the third round now can't just keep on going on forever.</s>BASSIR POUR: It's true and you know, the Americans are saying that after these talks then we'll seriously have to start thinking whether there should be another round or not. But that -- I agree, I don't expect a breakthrough on Iraq.</s>ROTH: One official, though, is hinting that if the council doesn't provide enough answers, these talks could even be canceled, though, Annan said to journalists that these talks are going to go ahead, but there's still some time before those ...</s>BONE: Well, I mean the -- you know, there was the monthly Security Council luncheon with Kofi Annan and which -- it was made clear to Kofi Annan that these answers won't be answered ahead of the talks, and, in fact, it was taken as an indication of Iraqi bad faith that they wanted the answers before they came to the talks rather than waiting for Kofi Annan to answer and having consulted all the individual members of the council at the talks.</s>ROTH: And we should say to our viewers, again, those questions deal with things about the U.S. plan for -- quote -- "regime change in Iraq" and the no-fly zone and other areas of dispute. Not many questions necessarily on the weapons inspectors.</s>BASSIR POUR: They are not going to get any answers on that. You know well and they know well. The only...</s>ROTH: Are you lecturing me?</s>BASSIR POUR: ... factor is whether -- I'm just telling you that the only factor of these talks will be how Iraq -- how much Iraqis take Washington seriously about being attacked...</s>BONE: And one ...</s>BASSIR POUR: ... and how scared they are.</s>BONE: ... other issue with Syria and the Americans. There was a bilateral meeting between Mr. Negroponte, the American ambassador, and Farouk al-Shara the Syrian foreign minister, in which the Americans are pushing the Syrians to allow the U.N. to monitor a pipeline that is pumping oil outside the U.N. oil-for-food scheme, which is a breach of sanctions. Syria, of course, the president of the Security Council breaking the Security Council's own sanctions.</s>ROTH: And let's talk about some other key interesting Iraq items in the news this week. Afsane, 10 Iraqi diplomats who used to serve in New York at its U.N. mission has gone back to Iraq, and U.S. law enforcement authorities say they went on a spending spree...</s>BASSIR POUR: Yes, they did.</s>ROTH: ... running up quite a debt in credit card ...</s>BASSIR POUR: They...</s>ROTH: ... fraud is what the U.S. is saying.</s>BASSIR POUR: ... you know, apparently, according to the</s>U.S.: What they do is they have these credit cards, and then they wait until the last couple of weeks of their stay in the U.S., and then they go out on a -- on a spending spree and, you know, run up these bills of up to $65,000...</s>BONE: And, of course, they had diplomatic immunity.</s>BASSIR POUR: ... and then they go back to Iraq and they can't be touched.</s>BONE: And they have diplomatic immunity. In fact, Richard, this credit card fraud emerged during the investigation into a suspected Iraqi spy in the Iraq's U.N. mission. And that suspected spy has been asked by the Americans to leave the country. He was, apparently, diplomats tell me, trying to recruit people for Iraq.</s>BASSIR POUR: That's right.</s>ROTH: Well, J.P. Morgan Chase doesn't want to hear about diplomatic immunity. They want more than $77,000 back. Iraq says the U.S. is just using this case to put more pressure on the Iraqi government in the court of public opinion.</s>BASSIR POUR: And yes, they are. It's true. The Iraqis are right.</s>ROTH: All right, James, oil pricing. "Wall Street Journal" had an interesting story regarding what happens in Geneva at the compensation area where Iraq is supposed to -- what it does...</s>BONE: Well, there are two things, Richard.</s>ROTH: Yes.</s>BONE: One is that the British and the Americans have been trying to stop Iraq skimming off little commissions on the oil sales, on the oil-for- food program. And the way they've done that is they've decided to set the price retrospectively so people can't then exploit the differences in price. And the Russians whose nationals make up many of these small trading houses, profit from this business; are up in arms about that and are threatening...</s>BASSIR POUR: I see, see. Yes.</s>BONE: ... to do...</s>ROTH: Yes.</s>BONE: ... something about it.</s>ROTH: Yes, back to the Security Council as we continue our lightning round of diplomacy. Inside the Security Council, a big dispute as the United States is looking for action so that its soldiers wouldn't be subject to prosecution at a future war crimes tribunal. Afsane, very briefly.</s>BASSIR POUR: Well, I mean, as you know, first of all, the International Criminal Court will come into effect on July 1. Now, the U.S. tried very hard to stop its creation. It couldn't do it and now it's trying all it can to try to curb its powers...</s>ROTH: That's right. Well ...</s>BASSIR POUR: ... and it has presented this resolution that basically is unacceptable for everybody because it's giving blanket immunity to all personnel participating in U.N. peacekeeping. And U.S. is saying if you don't accept this proposal, we are going to withdraw completely from all ...</s>ROTH: Well, let's hear a little bit more what the U.S. says publicly. They're trying to be diplomatic about it, but Washington does want immunity for its troops to avoid a tour of duty in an international court trial in The Hague.</s>RICHARD WILLIAMSON, U.S. REP. ON POLITICAL AFFAIRS TO THE U.N.: We hope to find a pragmatic way in which we can strengthen peacekeeping while respecting the United States position that we will not put American men or women under the reach of the International Criminal Court while serving in a United Nations peacekeeping operation -- period.</s>ROTH: Go ahead.</s>BONE: Well, as a result of that rail, the renewal of the Bosnia peacekeeping forces have been postponed for a week while this -- while they're trying to agree to some compromise. Next month there are five U.N. operations coming up for renewal, so this will be a sole point, and the court, of course, the jurisdiction begins July 1. So that's the crucial date.</s>ROTH: All right ...</s>BASSIR POUR: So by June 30, they have to find some, as they said, in a pragmatic way. Now...</s>ROTH: All right ...</s>BASSIR POUR: ... you know, this has turned into a ideological battle because the...</s>ROTH: Yes, and this ...</s>BASSIR POUR: ... U.S. can...</s>ROTH: ... battle is...</s>BASSIR POUR: ... get protection for its own...</s>ROTH: ... over. Your judge has spoken and both of you -- Afsane, your French team lost in the World Cup a few weeks ago.</s>BASSIR POUR: Thank you. You keep telling me that.</s>ROTH: Yes, but now I can tell James his English team lost and mine American team is out. So...</s>BASSIR POUR: OK, we're all out.</s>ROTH: ... we're down to the semifinals and what would make hundreds of staff and diplomats come to work at seven in the morning in New York? Well, only the World Cup of football or soccer, as the sport is called. On Friday morning the audience in the U.N. conference room was pro- America, but the United States went down in defeat at the hands of Germany. A pleasant court of finals accomplishment, though the U.S. team disagreed with the refereeing there for an improving U.S. team in a tournament full of surprises.</s>ANNAN: I'm not going to put a bet on who is going to win because I'm not sure I will -- I will be right. But it's been an incredible World Cup. I think it's a World Cup of the underdogs, it seems to me. So there's hope for all of us underdogs.