Is Donald Trump's Tax Plan Too Rich for the Nation?; Trump Fires Back at Critics
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to THE LEAD. More now on the politics lead. If you ask Donald Trump, he's worth $10 billion. Now, if you ask "Forbes" magazine, the real estate mogul is worth considerably less, only $4.5 billion. Either way, he's really, really rich. According to experts, however, his tax plan might be too rich for the nation. Two separate estimates from two think tanks on either side of the political divide say that Trump's rejiggering of the way the IRS does business will cost 1,000 times what Trump says is his fortune. In other words, it will cost the nation $10 trillion. CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash is here. Dana, what happen does the Trump campaign have to say about these assessments?</s>DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm sure you can probably guess that Donald Trump is saying that his plan is terrific, his critics are just wrong and they don't know what they're talking about. But part of the issue is that we still don't have all of the specifics, which allows opponents to dismiss his tax proposal as fantasy.</s>BASH (voice-over): If there's anything Donald Trump knows how to do, it's sell. And now,it's all about selling his new tax plan.</s>DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The economy's going to just be absolutely like a rocket. It's going to go up. This is my prediction. This is what I'm good at. This is really my wheelhouse.</s>BASH: But as much as Trump is trying to build up his proposal, where nearly half of Americans would pay no federal income tax, his rivals are urging voters to compare it to the alternatives.</s>GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All I caution people is to remember that anything that you propose as a presidential candidate, you have to be able to deliver on. We have had too many empty promises in this country over time.</s>BASH: Jeb Bush, who released his own tax reform plan several weeks ago, tweeted: "Finally saw Donald's tax plan. Looks familiar. I'm flattered, but he should have stuck with growth and fiscal responsibility." Ben Carson, now running neck and neck with Trump in polls, says Trumps plan to bring money back from overseas is nothing new.</s>BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's over $2 trillion of American money sitting overseas. I have been talking about this for several months. Some people think that you just heard about it this week.</s>BASH: Experts are poring over the details, trying to figure out what his version of simplifying the tax code would mean. One right-leaning group, the Tax Foundation, applauded Trump's effort at tax cuts, but also pushed back on Trump's claim that his plan would not add to the deficit, concluding, instead, it "would increase the federal government's deficit by over $10 trillion." But even that is hard to know for sure, since some specifics of Trump's plan are still unknown, like exactly which tax loopholes he would get rid of. In fact, Rand Paul dismissed Trump's proposal as more of the same.</s>SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think my tax plan is better. I get rid of all 70,000 pages of the tax code. His plan will continue a lot of the cronyism and a lot of the special interest politics that go into the tax code. Ours would eliminate all of that, and you could file your tax return on one single postcard.</s>BASH: Now, Trump continues to fire back at fellow candidates, his competitors, not just on policy, but personally. He tweeted today that Rand Paul is going to drop out of the presidential race, something Senator Paul told CNN today is not true. Jake, he said, it's silly season any time that he opens his mouth.</s>TAPPER: And, Dana, one other thing, Tom Brady, the quarterback, said that it would be great if Trump won the White House, but now I'm understanding that that's not exactly what he says?</s>BASH: Right. So, Donald Trump, any time he gets a chance, he talks about how close he is with Tom Brady and how wonderful a guy he is. Tom Brady had one of Donald Trump's now famous "Make America Great" hats...</s>TAPPER: "Make America Great," yes.</s>BASH: ... in his locker room. That was noticed. Somebody asked him about it. And he should he would be great for Donald Trump to be president. Now Tom Brady's kind of talking that back, saying, I didn't mean to endorse him and he also said that he doesn't -- he, Tom Brady, doesn't pay attention to politics, so he doesn't really know what's going on.</s>TAPPER: OK. There's a joke to be made, but I will leave it right there.</s>BASH: I just put right that on the cue for you.</s>TAPPER: Thank you. Thank you. Let's talk over everything 2016 with CNN political commentators Kevin Madden and Van Jones. Gentlemen, thanks for being here. So, Mark Leibovich has a new profile of Donald Trump in "The New York Times Magazine." In it, Trump talks about his vision for America and the presidency. He said this -- quote -- "Jimmy Carter used to get off of Air Force One carrying his luggage. I used to say, I don't want a president carrying his luggage." Now, what is interesting about this is that when Pope Francis got on the plane and he was carrying his bag, I noticed it, because we so rarely see it. Obama doesn't do it. Bush didn't do it, et cetera. Do Americans agree with Trump, I think is the question. Do they want their presidents to not have bags?</s>VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, maybe not. Maybe so. Listen, I thought, first of all, the pope just set a completely different standard. He made all of us I think take a step back. His humility, ability to connect with people was extraordinary and part of it was his willingness to carry his own bag. That's -- the problem with Donald Trump is that everything becomes this big show. I don't know if Americans want presidents carrying their bags or not. I know they don't want a show person.</s>TAPPER: When you worked on the Romney campaign in '08, did he carry his bags? Was that something?</s>KEVIN MADDEN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: He did, yes. He did. I remember trying to grab them one time, and he said, no, I have got it. He wouldn't allow me to carry his own bags. He didn't want staff doing it for him. But I don't want to overanalyze any of this. I think relatability comes in different ways. And I think that's one of the things that candidates try to focus on, is when they talk about issues, how are you relatable, how is it that you show you understand the problems that people -- of the average American?</s>TAPPER: But those things are -- I mean, Jimmy Carter...</s>MADDEN: I think, with Trump, the contrast is, that in some way that it wasn't presidential for Jimmy Carter to do that.</s>TAPPER: Right.</s>MADDEN: That he looked weak and wimpy, right, and whereas Trump's whole brand and whole persona is about being bold and brash.</s>TAPPER: And rich.</s>MADDEN: Yes, and rich. But that has a declining -- I think people, voters, have a declining appreciation for that over time.</s>TAPPER: OK. That's interesting. Let's talk about Jeb Bush's campaign. An anonymous Republican donor told Politico that there is real anxiety inside the Jeb Bush for president campaign.</s>JONES: There should be.</s>TAPPER: They say it's at a six or a seven. I assume that's on a scale of one to 10. The Bush campaign pushes back on this strongly and say it's nonsense. They point out they just picked up some of Scott Walker's fund- raisers. Kevin, you know these guys. Is there anxiety within the Jeb Bush campaign?</s>MADDEN: Well, look, here's the interesting thing about donors. The reason that they become very successful is that they are very methodical and they plan over the long haul. And yet when they're donating to candidates, they're very emotional and they want to see immediate returns.</s>TAPPER: Right.</s>MADDEN: And the challenge for the folks inside the Bush campaign is trying to educate their donors about how -- what their long play is, over a longer period of time. Here we are, they're getting nervous, and it's only October. I mean, it's only September and October. This is a campaign that's built to start winning in February and March and April, during the high point of the primary contest. That's the big challenge they have right now, which is saying, don't get nervous now. This is a campaign that's built for when it matters, built to succeed when it matters.</s>TAPPER: And that's the approach also of the Rubio campaign as well. He doesn't want to be peaking right now, he says. He wants to be peaking in January and February, when voters start going to the polls.</s>JONES: That's true. Listen, for Rubio, it kind of makes sense. I have said his theme song should be from The Bee Gees, "Staying Alive." Like, he just wants to stay alive, stay on the radar screen, do well, do well, be everybody's second favorite choice. Bush is just spinning. Everybody expected for him to be dominating this field.</s>TAPPER: Right.</s>JONES: Nobody thought in October of this year or any year that a Ben Carson would be taking him to the cleaners. And so I really think that there is a reason for these donors to be panicking. He may have picked up a couple of donors. He should try to pick up of a couple of points in the polls. And that would just calm a lot of this stuff down.</s>TAPPER: On the Democratic side, I want to play something that Hillary Clinton told Lena Dunham, the actress, in an interview about keeping Wall Street from running amok.</s>HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I like to have plans for what I do. I may not always be the -- you know, the stem- winder about these things, because I think it's important and I have been around Washington long enough to know you have got to get people to agree if you're going to get something done. Now, trying to get bipartisan agreement is difficult. But often it essential.</s>TAPPER: Seemed to be talking about Bernie Sanders, seemed to be saying, yes, maybe he gives better speeches, but I get it done because you need to be bipartisan. Bernie Sanders isn't. I'm reading into it.</s>JONES: Well, look, I think she was in some ways taking a shot at Bernie, in some ways taking a shot at Elizabeth Warren. I'm from that part of the Democratic Party, that wing that is very passionate, that really does not like what Wall Street's been able to get away with. But I tell you why I respected what she said, even though I'm on the other side of the party from her. She is starting to just be herself. She said, listen, this is who I am. I have my way of doing things. They have their way of doing things. I'm not going to be up here doing the Nae Nae and everything else, trying to pretend like I'm somebody like I'm not. I'm just going to totally...</s>TAPPER: She did do the Nae Nae.</s>JONES: Well, she did. She did it and she did it better than I do it. I can't criticize her.</s>JONES: Listen, she's going to be a lot better, she's going to be more respected in this party if she says, listen, I'm a moderate, I am who I am, and take me or leave me, than trying to pander. That's she has got to stop doing.</s>MADDEN: What I found real interesting was the two messages were two messages that I don't think aren't driving base voters inside the Democratic Party right now, one, compromise. And the second part, she said, I have been around Washington a long time.</s>TAPPER: Right.</s>MADDEN: Like, neither one of those messages work with the base right now.</s>JONES: It's authentic, true.</s>JONES: And I'm going to tell you, I think that her problem, everybody knows her policy and her politics. This is about authenticity right now. We're in a personality primary right now. And you know what? When she's just herself in person, she's great, and everybody knows it.</s>TAPPER: Great. Van Jones, Kevin Madden, thank you both. Great to have you here.</s>MADDEN: Good to be with you.</s>TAPPER: And with Hillary Clinton's poll numbers sagging, who better to talk to? The comeback kid himself, Bill Clinton, sits down with Erin Burnett tonight to give his take on his wife's campaign. He's in favor of it, I'm guessing. Donald Trump and everything else 2016. You will not want to miss it. That's Bill Clinton on "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. In our money lead, she angered many by suggesting women cannot have all it. Now Anne-Marie Slaughter is back and telling me what Hillary Clinton thought about her advice. Plus, one of his applause lines of the night was a dad joke, much like one joke that Jon Stewart used to use beforehand. So, how did Trevor Noah stack up to his "Daily Show" predecessor?