Two Shooters at Cartoon Contest in Texas; Interview with Pam Geller on Prophet Mohammed Cartoon Contest.
CAMEROTA: We do have breaking news for you this morning. Police in Texas gathering information about the two suspects, the two gunmen who opened fire outside a free speech event which featured a cartoon contest of the Prophet Mohammed and a speech from someone who is on the al Qaeda hit list. Why hold this event and possibly invite a threat, given what we saw in Paris in January? Here to explain all of that is Pamela Geller. She's the executive director of the American Freedom Defense Initiative. She organized the Draw Mohammed event in Texas. Pam, thanks so much for being on</s>NEW DAY. PAMELA GELLER, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FREEDOM DEFENSE INITIATIVE,: Thank you for having me, Alisyn.</s>CAMEROTA: Pamela, where were you when the gunmen opened fire, and what happened inside?</s>GELLER: We had just finished a free speech conference. We had (inaudible) there, we had depictions of Mohammed through history, for the past 1,400 years, and we have held a contest, as you know. And the winner, interestingly enough, was a former Muslim, Bosh Faustin (ph). And we had finished the event. It was really very well received, roughly 300 people there. And it was at that time where these two gunmen attempted to storm the building, and they shot at the police. And we were all -- you know, we were all in the room. And the police came in and put us all into lockdown. And so, of course, this terrible incident reflects the need for such conferences. It's illustrative of the violent assault on the freedom of speech.</s>CAMEROTA: Pam, you know, there was a tweet sent out before the attack warning of the attack. Did you get any intel from the police about just how dangerous an event like this could be?</s>GELLER: Well, it's dangerous because increasingly, we're abridging our freedoms, so as not to offend savages. The very idea that if something offends me, or I don't -- or I'm insulted by something, I'll kill you and that way I can get my way, and somehow this is okay with members of the elite media and academia is outrageous.</s>CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, but Pam, nobody --</s>GELLER: It's a cartoon. It's a cartoon.</s>CAMEROTA: Sure.</s>GELLER: It's a cartoon.</s>CAMEROTA: And nobody is saying that this warrants the violence that you saw. I mean I haven't heard anyone in the media saying that it's okay for gunmen to show up at an event like this. But what people are saying is that there's always this fine line, you know, between freedom of speech and being intentionally incendiary and provocative.</s>GELLER: Intentionally incendiary and provocative by drawing a cartoon. This is the low state of freedom of speech in this country. I disagree, and I disagree most vehemently. The First Amendment, not the Eighth, not the 10th, but the Dirst, protects all speech, not just ideas that we like. But even core political speech, ideas that we don't like, because who would decide what's good and what's forbidden? The Islamic state? the government? Inoffensive speech, Alisyn, needs no protection, but in a pluralistic society you have offensive speech. You have ideas. You have an exchange of ideas. You don't shut down a discussion because I'm offended. If something offends me, should I go out and slaughter people?</s>CAMEROTA: Sure, of course.</s>GELLER: When Jesus Christ was put in a jar of urine it was called art. Did Christians like it? Of course not. Did they slaughter people? Did they burn embassies? Did they kill whole communities? Of course not. This cannot be sanctioned. This cannot be sanctioned. The West must stand up for freedom of speech. It's the core, fundamental element of this constitutional republic.</s>CAMEROTA: I mean what your critics say about this is that you weren't just going after, say, al Qaeda, or ISIS or extremism, but even just Islam. I mean, let me read to you a portion, an excerpt from your keynote speaker, Gerrick Wilders (ph) who said this to the crowd before the attack broke out, he said, "Our Judeo-Christian culture is far superior to the Islamic one. I can give you a million reasons. But here is an important one. We've got humor and they don't. Islam does not allow free speech because free speech shows how evil and wrong Islam is. And Islam does not allow humor because humor shows how foolish and ridiculous it is." Now, of course, that's not about extremism. He's talking about a religion of which there are 3 million Muslims even here in the United States.</s>GELLER: First of all, he's entitled to his opinion, end of story. So what? So he said that. And frankly, what he said was true. There is no humor. Khomeini when he took over in 1979 said there is no humor. The fact is that we need to have this discussion. Alisyn, there's a problem in Islam and the problem is, we can't talk about the problem. We are seeing the wholesale slaughter of Christians in Iraq and in Syria, in Nigeria, in the Congo, Central African Republic. The jihad is raging, and all we can talk about is backlash of phobia. It's nonsense. We have to be able to discuss and when you say I'm anti-Muslim. Excuse me, I'm anti-jihad. And anyone that says that I'm anti-Muslim is implying that all Muslims support jihad.</s>CAMEROTA: Well, sure --</s>GELLER: That sounds Islamaphobic to me. That sounds Islamaphobic to me.</s>CAMEROTA: But the reason that people believe your group is anti- Islam is because of quotes like that from the keynote speaker where he was just talking about Islam. He wasn't talk -- what you're mentioning, I mean, the things that you're citing are the extremism, the violence, the terrorism. But he's just talking about Islam. I mean how can you say that 3 million Muslims here in the United States are humorless? How can you say that they don't believe in --</s>GELLER: He did not say that. He did not say that. We're talking about the ideology. Under the Sharia there is creed apartheid. There is gender apartheid. There is Islamic anti-Semitism and misogyny. These are very real. And who gives voice to the voiceless? Where are the victims get to speak? Every time a victim speaks out they're accused of Islamophobia. It's absurd on its face. And you can quote Mr. Vilders (ph) but by the -- you know, when you're talking about my work and what I do, quote me and quote my work. But I support --</s>CAMEROTA: Well only because he was your keynote speaker are we quoting him, but -- you know so that represents part of what the event was about.</s>GELLER: But what did he say that wasn't true?</s>CAMEROTA: Well, I'll tell you what he said that wasn't true. He said that Islam does not allow humor. Now, I mean, do you -- Pam, do you know anyone who is Muslim?</s>GELLER: Of course.</s>CAMEROTA: And do you think they're humorless?</s>GELLER: Listen, you're being very condescending.</s>CAMEROTA: No Pam, listen. Are you willing to say that all of Islam --</s>GELLER: It was the Ayatollah Khomeini --</s>CAMEROTA: -- doesn't alllow humor?</s>GELLER: Are you willing to say the Ayatollah Khomeini was not Supreme Leader in the Muslim world? Are you willing to say that? He's the one who said there were no jokes.</s>CAMEROTA: But that's -- but this is your keynote speaker saying this. This wasn't the ayatollah saying this.</s>GELLER: Yes. He's the who said there are no jokes. OK, so, you know, I don't like what you're saying, Alisyn, so because I don't like what you're saying and you're offending me, should -- you know should we be violent? you know so that we can shut down your speech?</s>CAMEROTA: No, no, no. Of course not.</s>GELLER: Is that what you're advocating?</s>GELLER: -- so we can have this conversation.</s>CAMEROTA: Look, this is what's so great. We're having this conversation on CNN. It's great to be able to debate this and have this conversation. And by the way, what's interesting about your event is that everyone, even the there's this piece of the Daily Beast right now that talks about that there were scores of Muslim leaders who supported your right to have this event. They didn't like it, but they supported your right to freedom of speech. Let me read to you a quote from one of them. This was a New York City Muslim community leader. She says Pamela Geller can draw any damn cartoon she wants and I defend her right to do so. I have always fought for her right to be a bigot and I have the right to counter her bigotry with my own free speech. I mean, this is a Muslim leader saying you have the right to have an event like that. But again the point is --</s>GELLER: Yes. This is a Muslim leader who is attacking me and insulting me, in ad hominim attacks, and isn't that generous of her? look, she's not the problem, okay. The problem is that a group, and we don't know how many others were involved, attempted to open fire on a gathering of free speech. That's the problem, Alisyn.</s>CAMEROTA: Of course.</s>GELLER: You're bringing it up with these silly distractions. No one is saying that there aren't peaceful Muslims. But there is a problem in Islam, as illustrated last night and anyone that addresses it gets attacked in this same way. Whereas you should be directing your barbs at the enforcers of the Sharia and those that seek to -- to destroy and crush freedom of speech the way they did in Paris and in Copenhagen and across the world.</s>CAMEROTA: Listen, absolutely, Pam. The bottom line is that -- freedom of speech can never be met with violence. No one can ever open fire on a group of innocent people. I mean obviously that is from the get-go, that's where you and I and everybody in this country agrees. But there is a debate to be had about what the line is between freedom of speech and provocation. Have we lost Pam? No. But, Pam, listen, the point is -- isn't that you don't have the right to do it. Of course you have the right to do it. It just seems that you don't draw the distinction between extremism and violence and Islam as a whole.</s>GELLER: And you don't draw the distinction between civilized men and savages because you're saying that if something I say offends someone, then they have the right to behave in a certain way; that it's going to incite them. I think it's ridiculous. I think the blasphemy laws under the Sharia is ridiculous. I think the people that tens of thousands of people that are slaughtered under this law is monstrous. And that's what you and I should be addressing.</s>CAMEROTA: And of course --</s>GELLER: Not that we can't talk about it.</s>CAMEROTA: Of course we agree on that. But --</s>GELLER: It's ridiculous.</s>CAMEROTA: But the problem comes when you paint with this broad brush and when you say savages in the same sentence as Islam. It makes it sound as though you're calling Muslims savages, and when he said when he makes these broad brushed --</s>GELLER: Show me. Alisyn, show me. Show me where I used Muslim and savages. One time in my entire life. Show me now. You just made accusation. Show me where I said that.</s>CAMEROTA: You were just saying savages. So we all agree --</s>GELLER: I said you -- I said you did not draw a distinction between civilized men and savages. Civilized men can disagree. Savages will kill you when they disagree.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes --</s>GELLER: That's a distinction I made.</s>CAMEROTA: Of course, you said the religion of savages. You know that there are --</s>GELLER: I did not say it. Go back. I never said it. And everybody out there in the listening audience is saying no she didn't say that.</s>CAMEROTA: I don't want to play a semantics game with you. But I do think that your critics have a point when they say that you paint with a broad brushed stroke and it sounds like you're anti-anti-Islam.</s>GELLER: No, you paint with a broad brush. You paint with a broad brush. I am anti-jihad, I am anti-Sharia. You, by saying I paint with a broad brush are saying all Muslims support jihad. And Alisyn, you sound very Islamophobic.</s>CAMEROTA: Pam, of course, all Muslims don't support jihad. The point is --</s>GELLER: Of course.</s>CAMEROTA: -- is that when you -- when your speakers say that Islam is foolish, it is ridiculous, it -- how -- he says here how evil and wrong Islam is. I mean, when you just said that, of course, you know Muslim people, do you think that they're evil and wrong? I mean, how can your keynote speaker be saying this about a whole religion?</s>GELLER: I am not concerned -- I'm not concerned with Muslims. I'm not concerned with Muslims, especially peaceful Muslims. I am concerned with the 25 percent that support Sharia. I am concerned with the amputations and the female genital mutilation and the honor violence. I am concerned that the media whitewashed and scrubs this. I am concerned for the victims, and if I have to take this kind of abuse to speak up for the victims, it seems like a small price to pay.</s>CAMEROTA: Listen. Of course, everyone's concerned about the violence, but let's face it. Your event wasn't just about the violence, it was about -</s>GELLER: My event was about freedom of speech, period. Freedom of speech is the First Amendment. It's the first and most protected political speech -- the most protected because who would decide what's good and what's forbidden? These arbitrary voices? You? The Muslim Brotherhood? We need to have this conversation, and the fact that we have to spend upwards of $50,000 in security speaks to how dangerous and how in trouble freedom of speech is in this country. And then we have to get on these new shows and somehow we are -- those that are targeted, those that were going to be slaughtered are the ones who get attacked speaks to how morally inverted this conversation is.</s>CAMEROTA: Listen Pam. This is not an attack, this is a conversation. And we're glad that you're having this conversation. I'm glad, I thank CNN to allow us to have a conversation like this because, to your point, we need to have conversations like this. But in terms of the event, in terms of what your plan is, what is your next plan? Now that you -- now that you all have survived this near-death experience, what will this do?</s>GELLER: Well, it'll certainly wake up the American people to this violent assault on our most basic freedom. And people will begin to realize that this war is here. You know, you read about it in Europe, literally opening fire on a French magazine weekly and slaughtering cartoonists and journalists and thinking that this is, well, that's Europe and they have these problems that we don't have. We have them, and people need to wake up and we need to take a firm stance on freedom of speech, and we will not abridge our freedoms so as not to offend savages. And this is really, I think, the battle between freedom and slavery. It is that basic.</s>CAMEROTA: Pam Geller, we do appreciate you coming on. We do appreciate this conversation. Thanks so much for sharing what happened last night. We're happy that you're safe and that everryone there, other than the gunmen, survived. Thanks so much.</s>GELLER: Thank you, Alisyn. END