No Forthcoming Nominee to Replace Chuck Hagel as Defense Secretary
BLACKWELL: The White House has a big job ahead of it right now to find a new defense secretary. Chuck Hagel is stepping down from his post at the Pentagon after just short of two years on the job. The White House insists the decision is mutual, but sources tell CNN Hagel was pushed out because of the disagreements and frustrations with the level of the management on the White House of the military strategy in Syria and Iraq. And the president appears to be having a tough time finding Hagel's replacement. Let's talk about this now with CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein and Dave Gergen. They join us. Ron, I want to start with you. Is it pretty clear here that Hagel was pushed out?</s>RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it seems more push than jump. But, you know, you look at the pattern here. We've had three defense secretaries under President Obama. First two have written memoirs explaining their view they were overly managed by the White House, and then you have this following in that wake. I think the pattern is pretty clear of a sense of frustration at the Pentagon, on the one hand that the White House is too closely involved, and then at the White House that the Pentagon perhaps is not following the direction closely enough.</s>BLACKWELL: David, we heard from the former secretaries there Panetta and Gates at this Reagan national defense forum where we heard from Gates that the micromanaging was a problem. We heard from Panetta that the inner circle makes many of the decisions before the defense secretary walks in. Let's listen to what John McCain has been saying about that inner circle.</s>SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: They are going to say, well, it was time for a change and all that. But I can tell you he was in my office last week and very frustrated. Already the White House people are leaking he wasn't up to the job. Believe me, he was up to the job.</s>BLACKWELL: What is your response to that?</s>DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well I think it's unfortunate, more than unfortunate, that the White House has chosen to diminish Chuck Hagel. I think the breaking, the parting of the ways was almost inevitable. There was a lot of frustration building on both sides, and I think for many of the reasons both Panetta and Gates have written about, there is the sense that the National Security Council staff, which started growing well before Obama came to office but has now grown to a gargantuan size. It's over 300 people. When Colin Powell was there were less than 80. And what it means is when you have that many people, you know, looking for things to do, they inevitably begin putting their hands into the agencies and asking questions and beginning to order them around and making them feel like they are just working essentially for White House 35-year-olds. And that causes a great deal of frustration. We've had three secretaries in a row who have left in frustration as Ron pointed out. I do not think that means that the next secretary -- what I also object to is the idea that the White House is already allowing the press to diminish the next secretary as if the next secretary is going to be a lackey of the White House. That does not have to be true. There are very, very, good candidates out there who would be strong candidates and could run the department as well. They might have some of the similar frustrations.</s>BLACKWELL: Ron, some of the potential candidates even at the start of the week have pulled their name of contention. You have former undersecretary of defense Michele Flournoy who says that she doesn't want. Senator Reed says he just won reelection. He wants to stay in the Senate. Why this difficulty to get someone to accept the invitation?</s>BROWNSTEIN: A couple thoughts. First of all I think that the point that David makes is not unique to the Defense Department. It's really kind of the overall trajectory of government we've seen really I'd say over the last 20 years, more power centralized in the White House on domestic agencies as well, and it makes the cabinet jobs for frustrating. You get to the end of the second term, there is a sense of administrations winding down that makes it harder as well. And there is the reality that this is a very difficult job where n the one hand the trajectory of Obama the administration has been toward unwinding military commitments in Middle East in particular, and now with the rise of ISIS we are kind of turning the battleship and being asked to design and support a more assertive military posture. So there's a lot of reasons why people might be resistant to doing it. But as David says, there are some strong candidates and I suspect he will end up with someone who will, has to have some respect on the Republican side of the aisle as well because that is now the other new reality of a Republican Congress that must confirm.</s>BLACKWELL: And Ron, on that point, that leads into questions about is there regret on behalf of the administration for choosing Hagel in the first place when they were winding down wars and Hagel was a staunch war critic, they liked that about him. But now they are ramping up in several countries in the Middle East there is this obvious and inherent disagreement.</s>BROWNSTEIN: Well look I think that is why -- you know, the thought of having a former Republican senator presiding over the unwinding I think was attractive to them. They feel that he has not been as strong an advocate as he could be as the mission has changed. But relations with the Republican Senate is obviously a much higher item on the priority list for the next defense secretary than it had been. It is something that you need. You need somebody who is going to have credibility on the other side of the aisle with John McCain as chair of the Senate Committee and with others in the Senate as well.</s>GERGEN: Yes, but let's be clear about this. Let's go back to this. There can be a strong defense secretary in the next two years if they make the right choice. Jeh Johnson, for example, who is now Homeland Security who was an excellent attorney at the Defense Department, had he not gone to Homeland Security he might well have been an interesting, innovative candidate who is well respected in the Senate. I'm partial to Ash Carter who was undersecretary and then deputy secretary, extremely value, worked extraordinarily well there under both Gates and Panetta, enjoyed both of their confidences. I've known him as a professor at Harvard for some time. He's very, very bright, but he's also extraordinarily effective and strong. And he enjoys John McCain's respect. That kind of person could come in. Ash could come in and I think could do a great job.</s>BLACKWELL: So David, what do you think of the timing of getting someone confirmed? We've heard from some members in the Senate who said that they should hold up any of these nominations in response to the president's executive action on immigration. Do you think we'll get a new A.G. and a new secretary of defense at least in the first couple months of 2015?</s>GERGEN: I think there are going to be tough hearings on both cases. But the nation cannot afford at a time we're in a conflict, especially against ISIS, to leave that position of secretary of defense vacant. That would be irresponsible. McCain knows that and he's a patriot. He's not going to let that happen. Will they give him a run in the yard? Will they really beat up on him on what their purposes are in Syria? Yes, they will, because the purposes, as Chuck Hagel himself has been arguing inside, the purposes aren't clear. We don't have a clear strategy. And John McCain and others, Democrats as well, are going to push for that. But that's a healthy thing. Do I think we'll have a defense secretary by early March? Yes, I do.</s>BLACKWELL: And we do know those confirmation hearings can set the tone for your time in office as we saw with Secretary Hagel and his performance criticized early on. Ron Brownstein and David Gergen, thank you both.</s>GERGEN: Thank you.</s>BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.</s>PAUL: Thank you gentlemen. All righty, imagine this -- no heat for two days and temperatures well below freezing. That is the situation for an awful lot of people in New England. Where the thermometer is heading now, that's coming up.