Biden Defends His Civil Rights Record And Past Position On Mandatory Busing; Sen. Kevin Johnson (D-SC) Discusses Biden's Defense Of His Civil Rights Record, Past Position On Busing
TIFFANY CROSS, CO-FOUNDER, THE BEAT DC: I think this is a really big misstep for Vice President Biden. Look, Josh and I talked a little bit about this last hour. And it really would have been -- the most appropriate step would have been, look, I am embarrassed I'll be judge for being on the wrong side of history. Thank you Senator Harris for pointing this out. But I've certainly revisited my stance on that. And I feel differently today. He didn't do that. He was defensive about his stance. And, look, nobody's trying to paint the vice president to be a racist. No one thinks that. But this is so frequently the challenge for people of color to correct allies when they step out of place. And there does seem to be this desire to want to extend some sort of hand to these Trump voters, to these Trump supporters, to extend some sort of extension to people across the aisle, who are clearly supremacists. And it baffles some people because you do wonder, does the MAGA vote hit differently? Make it make sense to me. Because you could easily go out and inspire the base, who's been on the right side of history and the right side of civil rights for a long time. But I think it's a dangerous space to get in. But, again, Brooke, I want to make it clear. If he's the nominee, people will get behind him. I don't think he's the only electable person on that stage. And I think Senator Harris proved that last night.</s>BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Joshua DuBois, to Tiffany's point, why not say yes, you know, decades ago, when I was a young Senator, I -- this is how I felt, but I -- my views have changed, I was on the wrong side of history, here's how I fee l now. Why not just say that?</s>JOSHUA DUBOIS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's a good question, and I think he does need to do that. That said, he had a rough night last night. That's absolutely true. I think that it's also true that that was just a really strong speech. He connected with a largely African-American audience with specificity. He reaffirmed the federal role in addressing discrimination at the state and local level. He put forth a pretty specific agenda on criminal justice reform. And it didn't feel like talking points. I mean --</s>BALDWIN: Where was that Joe Biden last night?</s>DUBOIS: Exactly. Kudos to him for learning from that. But also to the Symone Sanders, and Kamala Harrises (ph) and Cedric Richmonds of the world who may have -- maybe there have been some conversations between last night and tonight where Joe Biden learned that, you know, there's a way that he can talk about his civil rights record that's really powerful. But I think we cannot look past the fact that, in that room, that largely African-American room, people not only believed him, but they responded to him. And that's the power of a Biden candidacy. He can work with and address, and partner with white working-class voters. He also has a message for African-Americans. We heard more of that message today. It should have been there last night. By the way, he needs to get rid of this voluntary versus involuntary busing. It's just silly. He needs to move past it and say, I was wrong then, but -- and he's learned from that, and then talk about his positive civil rights record.</s>MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: That's an important point that Josh was making, because just being in South Carolina with him, last weekend -- I mean, almost every voter that I talked to was a black voter --</s>RESTON: --, was a huge Biden supporter, and, you know, was brushing aside the ruckus he had with Cory Booker over the previous weeks, comments about working with segregationist Senators. So I think we have to keep remembering that over and over again, that even though, in these debates, he's getting tripped up, there's so much love for him in that community.</s>CROSS: But -- but --</s>DUBOIS: And, Brooke, I --</s>CROSS: Can I weigh-in?</s>BALDWIN: Go ahead, Tiffany, yes, yes.</s>CROSS: South Carolina is one snapshot of a small community of people. As we've talked about on this show and other shows before, the black vote is not a monolith. I mean, the same way we just aggregate the data when we talk about white voters, there are --</s>CROSS: Right. It's a primary state. But so is California, so is Texas. The way the primaries are set up, this is going to be a large field. I'm not anti-Biden. I'm just offering my analysis after 20 years in politics.</s>BALDWIN: Sure.</s>CROSS: But I think there are other candidates. Look, Kamala gave a very compelling speech in South Carolina. She got rave reviews when she was there. Mayor Pete has given compelling speeches where everybody -- you know, they were all the rave. Beto, Pete and Bernie were all the rave for a while. A week is an eternity in politics. We have a long way to go. I'm not saying Biden can't win. I'm saying he's not the only person to win. Just because a room in South Carolina resonated with him, we have to think --</s>DUBOIS: Yes.</s>CROSS: Fair enough. But we bet the micro and not the macro. We have to start looking outside of South Carolina and looking at the entire electorate. I don't think he's the only path to victory. That's all I'm saying.</s>BALDWIN: Before we do that --</s>BALDWIN: Hang on one second, Josh. Speaking of South Carolina, Kevin Johnson is a South Carolina state Senator who has endorsed Joe Biden. Senator, thank you for being with me, and welcome.</s>SEN. KEVIN JOHNSON (D-SC): Thank you for having me, Brooke. Glad to be here.</s>BALDWIN: So how did you think he did last night and five minuting ago?</s>JOHNSON: Well, let me take the five minutes ago, first, he did a great job five minutes ago. I think the reason why the difference five minutes ago, as opposes to last night, I've been in several debates, it's difficult to respond to issues when you have 30 seconds or 45 seconds. Today was quite different. He had a chance to speak to a crowd for several minutes. And it's a lot easier to get your point across. I didn't think he did as bad as the pundits think he did last night. He was just put on the spot to try to defend some comments that he made 50 years ago. I'm always amazed that -- we want to overlook the great work that the vice president has done over the last eight to 10 years and go back 50 years when times were different and things were different. Quite frankly, he did have different people he had to work with in order to get things done on behalf of the people he represented and on behalf of this country.</s>BALDWIN: I don't think people are trying to forget. I think a lot of people really celebrate and honor the man and the legacy he's left, with regard to so much in terms of civil rights. But this is one huge issue, be it -- Maeve brought up his working with the Senator segregationists or this issue where we have evidence on the record of him opposing federally mandated busing to integrate our nation's school system. Why do you think he can't just say, I was on the wrong side of history, and I changed my mind?</s>JOHNSON: Quite frankly, I would rather he do that, because I think he was on the wrong side of history. Busing back then was very controversial. There were a lot of people who agreed with him, even African-Americans, and then there were those who did not. The whole integration and desegregation issue was very complicated. But I do wish that he would say, hey, looking back, hindsight being 2020, I made the wrong decision, and if I had it to do over again, which a lot of times we don't, I would think differently, I would do differently. But I don't want that to overshadow the great work he has done in the most recent history, even as vice president and in his distinguished career as a Senator for 30, 40 years in this country.</s>BALDWIN: Let me play some sound. This is how Senator Cory Booker, who had previously called on Biden to apologize for his remarks on segregationist Senators, this is how he reacted to the former vice president from last night's debate.</s>SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): Well, I think that anybody who knows our painful history knows that on voting rights, on civil rights, on protections from hate crimes, it is -- the African-Americans in this country and many other groups have had to turn to the federal government to intervene, because there were states that were violating those rights. That struck me. I literally leaned back in my couch and couldn't believe that one moment to me. And again, not understanding the history of the -- the need for the federal government.</s>BALDWIN: So, Senator, can you explain Biden's argument that this was a state's rights issue or, a second ago, when he said was referring to voluntary busing, leading folks scratching their head. Can you explain that?</s>JOHNSON: No, I cannot explain that. Like I said, we're talking about 50 years ago, when times were different, and you're dealing with different people. I still say I agree that I wish he would just come out and say, I was wrong, and let's move forward. But I want to say for the record, I think all of us realize that -- even Senator Booker and Senator Harris -- that Joe Biden is not a racist. He's been a civil rights champion throughout his whole career. So don't let one issue overshadow all the great work he's done in the area of civil rights and in the area of also trying to do what's best for America.</s>BALDWIN: But on that note --</s>JOHNSON: -- himself a lot.</s>BALDWIN: On that note, I hear you saying, this one thing, 30, 40, 50 years ago, and people should be bringing it up. But Biden himself, and a lot of his supporters point to his record and his experience is proof that he knows how to govern, he knows how to get things done. Isn't how he felt in the 1970s fair game?</s>JOHNSON: I think it's fair game. But I don't think it should overshadow everything that he has done. I think we all -- if we look back over 20, 30, 50 years of our lives, we have made mistakes, we have done things, we have said things that we wish we had not done and said. I think he would help himself to admit to that. But it should not overshadow the great work that he has done, and the great work he continues to do. So I want to put that out there that, even me, as a state Senator, I have had to work from time to time with people who I don't agree with on a lot of things. But in order to get some bills passed that I thought was good for South Carolina, I have worked with them. We don't agree on a lot of things politically. But there have been issues and instances where we could work together to further the state of South Carolina. So sometimes we have to do that. And I think that's the point the vice president was trying to make, saying, I have worked with these segregationists from time to time in order to further some bills or pass some bills or get some things done that was good for the country at that time. Not that he agrees with him. I'm sure he probably did not socialize with them and those types of things. He's worked with them over the years on issues he thought he needed to get support and get some bills passed that probably helped a lot of us.</s>BALDWIN: South Carolina State Senator Kevin Johnson, thank you so much, sir.</s>JOHNSON: Thank you.</s>BALDWIN: Much more on this coming up. Also, President Trump having a couple laughs with Vladimir Putin about Russia's attack on the U.S. elections and getting rid of journalists. And former President Jimmy Carter speaking out and raising questions about the legitimacy of Trump's presidency. Why he's suggesting the president didn't actually win. You're watching CNN. It's Friday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We'll be right back.