Is Media Creating False Impression of Democratic Race?; Is Chelsea Clinton Accountable to Reporters?
HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: Pushing her out. Some pundits say the Democratic contest is over, Hillary Clinton has lost and the media should stop pretending there's still a race. Are reporters really engaged in make-believe? Shouldn't the voters get to decide? And should the press label Hillary a liar over her discredited tale of coming under sniper fire? Numbers game: the Iraq story makes a comeback with the 4,000th American death of the war. But have the media been missing in action for months? Con job. "The L.A. Times" apologizes for tying the shooting of rapper Tupac Shakur to associates of Sean "Diddy" Combs based on FBI documents that turned out to be fake. We'll talk to the man who cracked the case. Plus, anchors gone wild: when big-shot hosts trash-talk their colleagues.</s>KURTZ: Print journalists may be overshadowed in these days of big network audiences and non-stop cable news, but they still have the ability to drive campaign coverage. A week ago, two writers for the Politico, a Beltway newspaper and Web site, wrote that we in the media are just pretending there's still a Democratic race going on, even though Hillary Clinton is, well, toast. That was picked up on "NBC Nightly News" and became the focus of dozens of cable segments.</s>BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Two veteran political journalists, writing on the Web site Politico, put the race this way, quote, "One big fact has largely been lost in the recent coverage. Hillary Rodham Clinton has virtually no chance of winning."</s>KURTZ: "New York Times" columnist David Brooks weighed in, saying Hillary has only a 5 percent chance of edging out Barack Obama and that the door is closing on her campaign. That was used in a CBS interview with Obama, and Brooks himself was invited on "The Today Show."</s>HARRY SMITH, CBS NEWS: Several people have written that, even in the best-case scenario, Hillary Clinton's chances of getting the nomination for the Democratic Party are about 5 percent. When is it time for her to leave?</s>SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, I think that is something that she's got to make a decision about.</s>MATT LAUER, CO-HOST, NBC'S "THE TODAY SHOW": The door is closing, night is coming. The end, however, is not near. Why do you think -- and you explained this in your piece -- Hillary Clinton is having such a difficult time understanding that night is coming?</s>DAVID BROOKS, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK TIMES": Well, I called it the audacity of hopelessness.</s>KURTZ: Soon, that debate was dominating cable news.</s>DICK MORRIS, POLITICAL ANALYST: I think this is over. I don't think that there is the remotest chance that Hillary emerges as the nominee.</s>JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: It's not up to Politico.com to determine who the Democratic nominee is. It's up to Democratic voters.</s>KURTZ: Joining us now to talk about how the media are framing the Democratic race, John Harris, editor-in-chief of The Politico; Linda Douglas, contributing editor, "National Journal," and host of the radio show, "National Journal Online" -- "National Journal On Air" -- excuse me. And Anne Kornblut, national political reporter for "The Washington Post." John Harris, let me read from the piece by your colleagues, Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen: "Journalists have become partners with the Clinton campaign in pretending that the contest is closer than it really is. Most coverage breathlessly portrays the race as a down-to- the-wire sprint between two well-matched candidates." Partners in pretending. Why would journalists, who love predicting how these things are going to turn out, perpetuate a fantasy?</s>JOHN HARRIS, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE POLITICO: Well, we love the race. And at the surface level it is very close. Hillary Clinton is just a little bit behind in the popular vote, just a little bit behind in the delegate count. So I think that has led to a tendency to make the race seem neck and neck. What Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen were arguing, though, is that there's a big elephant in the room, and that big elephant is race. The fact is, you've got an African-American candidate who is, by almost every sort of mathematical count, is going to come ahead in the delegate count. And Hillary Clinton's campaign is based on the notion that super delegates will say, "Hey, even though African-Americans are our most loyal constituency, even though this -- race is always the most emotional issue in American politics," super delegates are going to overturn that and say, "Somebody else was ahead, but we're giving the nomination to somebody else." They're saying -- they're not making a prediction, Howard. That's important. They're saying you have to reckon with just how improbable that scenario is, what a big deal that would be.</s>KURTZ: Seems to me -- seems to me I've read a lot about that particular elephant. But Linda Douglas, is Politico just saying flat-out what most journalists are too timid to say, unless they're sitting around in a bar?</s>LINDA DOUGLAS, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NATIONAL JOURNAL": Well, actually, I think Politico was sort of the little boy who said the emperor has no clothes. In fact, all journalists -- most journalists have been writing that it was a neck and neck race, that either of them could win, that it was essentially a toss-up. And what they pointed out is it is not actually a tossup. Obama is leading. Hillary Clinton is behind. Many things could happen to change that now, but the race had been portrayed up until that point, I believe, as much more even than it really was.</s>ANNE KORNBLUT, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "WASHINGTON POST": What I think is so interesting about this dynamic is that the Clinton campaign has virtually no friends in the media at this point. They've managed to alienate most of the press corps, and yet the press corps has written about it as being a real race all the time. I think once that story ran, we saw a lot of people following it up with agreements. There wasn't a whole lot of counterintuitive thinking after the story ran, saying, "No, actually, it really is a close race."</s>KURTZ: According to that piece -- you travel with the Clinton campaign week after week. According to that piece, you're either delusional about it being a close race or trying to fool the rest of us.</s>KORNBLUT: Well, we're delusional after traveling so much all the time. When you spend enough time around Senator Clinton and the campaign, and you see the supporters that she has out on the road, it's easy to believe that there is a real race. It doesn't feel on the road like a dying campaign usually does. But mathematically, there was -- there is a real point, that it's almost going to be impossible for her to catch up.</s>KURTZ: Lots of people picking up on his this. Slate.com now running a regular "Hillary Death Watch," if we can put that up. I think the latest scientific estimate, she's got a 12 percent chance of winning the nomination. But John Harris, if the race is such make-believe, which is to say, you know, that there's no chance for Hillary to win, why is Politico continuing to run hundreds of news stories and columns and items and blogs about the Democratic race? It seems like you're not practicing what you preach.</s>HARRIS: Howard, The Politico isn't an oracle that makes papal pronouncements or something like that. What you have here is two smart, experienced journalists, Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen, who are saying, "Look, let's look at what would be necessary for Hillary Clinton to win." I agree with James Carville in that clip. It's not up to Politico to say when this race is over. And what's more, we aren't making a prediction. We're saying look at what has happened on the basis of millions of votes that have already been case.</s>KURTZ: But you're saying more than that. You're saying that journalists are being misleading in pretending something exists that, on a competitive basis, does not...</s>HARRIS: I do -- I do believe that the coverage that makes us look like "It's a toss of a coin; this thing is so close" is in some sense misleading to readers. That, in fact, Hillary Clinton has a very, very narrow window. But it's not up to me to say that she shouldn't continue.</s>KURTZ: Let's...</s>HARRIS: My own preference is I wish she would. This is great fun, and let's keep it going.</s>KURTZ: Let's look at what the former first lady had to say on this very subject this week.</s>SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are some in the media who want this race to be over. There are some who seem to think we don't need to hear the voices of people Pennsylvania, or Indiana or North Carolina, or Montana or any of the other states that haven't had their chance to vote. Well, I disagree. I think everyone deserves to be heard.</s>KURTZ: Now the media, by making this topic A, not the economy, not health care, not Iraq, has forced her, virtually every day, to say, "I'm still in this race."</s>DOUGLAS: Which, actually, as a political point, is probably helping her a lot, because it really gets the backs of her supporters up. It gets all those women who really don't want to see her pushed out of the race very angry. But you know, the media always have two minds in these situations. No. 1, they never want the race to end, because it's a great story. No. 2, they always want to be the first to declare it over. Think how much times before any votes are cast in Iowa or New Hampshire, the media say, "It's over. It's finished. We don't even need to pay attention to this thing anymore." So this push-pull always goes on.</s>KURTZ: Anne Kornblut, you have co-authored two stories in the past two days. Yesterday's "Washington Post," front page, "Clinton Resists Calls to Drop Out." And then we have to this morning's "Washington Post," "Clinton Vows to Stay in Race to Convention," based on an interview with the candidate herself. It almost seems like you and your colleagues elsewhere have kind of hijacked the campaign. Now it's only about Hillary Clinton's intentions and how can she possibly win?</s>KORNBLUT: Well, it is topic A. The question is, will she stay in the race when this is a question?</s>KURTZ: Why is it topic A? Why isn't the economy topic A?</s>KORNBLUT: Well, substantively, the economy has been topic A for many weeks, leading up to Ohio and now going to Pennsylvania. We've written a lot about the economy, and, certainly, we've written about McCain and his take on the economy in the most recent few days. But the question that Democrats within the party are asking constantly -- and you have it provoked by members of the -- members of Congress, not us, who are saying -- Patrick Leahy saying she should drop out -- is what she's going to do. And she has, as Linda suggested, very rightly made this, really, a great talking point for her on the stump, where the women supporters in particular agree with her and want her to stay in.</s>DOUGLAS: Just to interject here, Howie, the argument over this could well influence how much she wins by, if she wins, in Pennsylvania. I mean, this argument about whether she should leave the race could wind up influencing how the race turns out.</s>KURTZ: Is there a lot of resentment on the part of Clinton campaign officials for the press for its relentless focus on this question of can she possibly win?</s>KORNBLUT: I don't think resentment at this point. I think it's actually gratitude that there is a topic they can use to send out fundraising letters on. In the last two days, we've seen two fundraising letters go out about what happens, the pattern, every time that Clinton's about to win, everyone asks her to get out. And her husband sent out one yesterday, saying that this is no time for quitting. So I think that they are very able, very ably, to use this to their advantage.</s>KURTZ: John Harris, some critics are saying, and this is not exactly unheard of in journalism. Any reporter every tried to hype a story onto the front page has probably indulged in this. But that a Web site like yours throws out a provocative and slightly outrageous piece because it generates a lot of buzz and you get a lot of Web traffic from it, as a result.</s>HARRIS: Well, that wasn't meant to be an outrageous piece. It was meant to be inviting readers to focus on what would need to happen for this very close race to actually be decided in Hillary Clinton's favor. You would have to tell, just to repeat what the story said, versus what it didn't say. You would have to tell African-Americans that, even though their -- an African-American candidate was first in the delegate count, the nomination is going to somebody else. And then ask yourself, is that a likely scenario?</s>KURTZ: Weren't a lot of reporters -- weren't a lot of reporters writing about that? I mean, the tone of the piece was almost like you were the first ones to come up with this divine revelation.</s>HARRIS: I didn't think that it was that novel. And indeed, I -- as the editor of the piece, I urged Jim and Mike to make sure it reflected the fact that some people had written about this. But Howard, you're doing the show, showing all the clips of people that picked up and cited that case. So it must have been something that was worth saying. You should answer the question, rather than me.</s>KURTZ: Well, I mean, we love to have new ideas to kick around. And this is an idea. And I'm not saying she has a great chance to win this nomination, but clearly, she has some chances. Does her campaign enjoy pushing back against the media? I mean, for a while there, there was, you know, campaign blasting Chris Matthews and David Shuster for his criticism.</s>DOUGLAS: Yes, absolutely. Anytime Hillary Clinton appears beleaguered, any time she appears to be the victim of attacks by the media, by men, the candidates, but whatever it is, she does better. Because she looks like -- once again, her whole life story has been about, you know, people trying to push her back, push her down, and it helps her enormously. This has been, in many ways, a gift for her campaign.</s>KURTZ: Let me play a clip from ABC's Jake Tapper, report on "World News" this week, and we'll talk about it on the other side.</s>JAKE TAPPER, ABC NEWS: One Democratic Party official said to me that the only way Clinton can win is by destroying Obama, destroying him and making him unelectable. This official referred to it as the Tanya Harding option, the idea that Clinton can't win the gold medal on her own, so she has to kneecap her leading competitor.</s>KURTZ: Now, Jake Tapper is a terrific reporter. But should he be quoting an anonymous source, comparing Hillary Clinton to the biggest thug in the history of ice skating?</s>KORNBLUT: Well, I -- I guess I could say no, except that this was a talking point that all of us heard from a variety of campaign officials. And it really neatly summed up the situation.</s>KURTZ: But did you hear it on the record?</s>KORNBLUT: No. No, I didn't. And I imagine he didn't either. Otherwise I assume he would have quoted the source.</s>KURTZ: All right. Well, here is my two cents. I think journalists should tell it like it is, and we shouldn't pretend that a lopsided race is a close one just to keep the race alive. And I think a lot of reporters would king of like to go on vacation right now. And Politico deserves credit for trying to honestly and openly grapple with the role of the press in this campaign. But it is not the business of journalists to all but declare a race over. I know John Harris says he's not doing that. And the press has repeatedly declared Hillary Clinton dead: after she lost Iowa, before Ohio and Texas. Somehow she has managed to come back. So in my view, that piece missed the mark. When we come back, she doesn't do interviews, but a college student still managed to ask Chelsea Clinton a question about Monica Lewinsky. Does the former first daughter have any obligation to talk to the press?