A Text And The Girl Who Sent It Was Blamed For A Young Boy`s Suicide
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A teenager could spend 20 years in prison because of her friend is suicide. Prosecutors say Michelle Carter encouraged Conrad Roy to follow through with his suicide attempt even when he had second thoughts.</s>ATTY. GREGG MILIOTE, BRISTOL COUNTY DITRICT ATTORNEY`S OFFICE: Instead of attempting to assist him or notify a school official or counselor or family member or anyone, Ms. Carter is alleged to have strongly influenced his decision to take his own life. (</s>END VIDEO CLIP UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: After his death, Carter honored her friend with a fund raiser for suicide prevention but could she have done more to save him. And, can she be held accountable for his decision? Her lawyer says this is a tragedy but not a crime.</s>PINSKY: Time for "WTF," the most shocking story of the night dominating social media. Joining me to discuss, Tiffany Smith, actress, host; Erica America, psychotherapist and radio host and Karamo Brown back with me. Did Michelle Carter`s text messages influence, persuade Conrad Roy to finish his suicide, to complete it? Police say Conrad was inside his truck with a generator and creating all of that carbon monoxide attempting to poison himself when he started thinking about his family. He thought better of it. He got out. He texted Michelle, then police say she responded with a message, "Get back in." Now, the question before us is, should she be held responsible for his death? She is charged with involuntary manslaughter. Erica, what do you say?</s>ERICA AMERICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST/ RADIO HOST: Well, this is just all sorts of crazy. I mean, obviously, the natural reaction would be to call 91, to call a parent, but Something is very off here. So, my question is what is the mental status of this young girl? What is going on with this young girl?</s>PINSKY: Right. Or is there information missing or is not what it seems to be, because it is all kind of crazy.</s>AMERICA: Yes. What kind of relationship did she have with this young man and what was the psychological payoff that she got from getting him to do this? Kind of almost like a Munchausen.</s>PINSKY: It is funny you would say that. Erica, that is exactly what I thought. Sort of a Munchausen by proxy.</s>AMERICA: Yes. Instead of getting her friend sick, she gets her friend to die and she gets this weird attention.</s>PINSKY: It is so interesting --</s>AMERICA: She gets money, she gets to do --</s>PINSKY: Yes.</s>AMERICA: It is very tricky. It is very bizarre.</s>PINSKY: It is tricky and --</s>AMERICA: I would say there is a personality disorder.</s>PINSKY: Maybe.</s>AMERICA: Something is very odd. Yes.</s>PINSKY: If it is what it seems to be, it is funny that you came to that thought, too. I had the exact same thought that is sort of felt like a Munchausen by proxy type situation, where people will act out on another person and make them sick or hurt them in order to get some payoff for themselves.</s>AMERICA: Right. Right.</s>PINSKY: Tiffany, have you ever heard of anything like this?</s>TIFFANY SMITH, ACTRESS/HOST: I have, but I think that is really taking this to an extreme that does not fit this for me.</s>PINSKY: OK.</s>SMITH: We are only getting bits and pieces of these text messages.</s>PINSKY: All right.</s>SMITH: And, I know from conversations with friends, you do not know the tone that it is coming through via text. And, just looking at the story, I mean we have heard from friends now saying that, "She was a drama queen" and you are like, "OK." So, look at that. Imagine this guy has been having this conversation with her for a while, I am depressed, this is going on.</s>PINSKY: And that may be satisfying to her in some way. She maybe gratified by hearing about his misery, and somehow, you know, sort of aroused her. I do not mean in a sexual way, but aroused her in sort of it made her feel like engaged and dramatic, and good about herself.</s>SMITH: But, how many times have you had somebody dramatically repeat something and finally, you are just like, "Just do it." You know?</s>PINSKY: I wondered that myself, if we missed the sort of lead-up where she is like, "I have heard enough of this. Get out of here. Go do whatever you are going to try to do. I cannot try to make you stop anymore." Sort of out of exasperation. The lawyer of this girl says, quote, "A young man made his own decision in his life on his own terms. It was in fact his volunteer decision. He had previously attempted suicide and made his own conscious decision to take his own life. His death was not caused by Michelle Carter. This is a tragedy, but is not a crime." The question, though still -- there is a couple things that -- Karamo, that begs yet. Did her final push there really substantively contribute to his demise and finally it is a reminder that when everybody says -- depression is potentially a fatal illness. We got to educate -- once again, we started tonight talking about mental illness. We are stopping, we are ending the show tonight talking about mental illness. And, we have got to educate young people about how serious it is, how to identify it and Karamo, how to refer it.</s>BROWN: I agree with you, Dr. Drew. The thing is that this young lady is 17 years old and I do not believe she had the mental maturity to be able to realize if this young man was telling the truth or was actually going to commit suicide. I do not think that she was at a place for that. Of course, there is a lot of facts that are missing in the story, but I think what you hit on is most important here. Instead of this -- them trying to charge this young lady with involuntary manslaughter and saying that she has something to do with this, how about using this as a teaching tool to other kids out there, that if someone is doing this, that you need to reach out to a parent, to a counselor, to 911. Help children to grow, so that they can understand how to deal with this.</s>PINSKY: That is right.</s>BROWN: Instead of victimizing one so that other children would say, "You know what? I do not want to get involved."</s>PINSKY: And tying up the legal system again. Speaking of the parents, we are going to hear from Michelle`s parents. As you can imagine, they have a different take on what happened. We are back after this.