Interview With NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg; Tillerson Meets With Putin; Trump Reverses Course on Supporting NATO; Ex-Trump Adviser Responds to Report FBI Monitored Him; Trump Tonight: China Wants to Do "Right Thing" on North Korea.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news: collision course. Discord deepens between the U.S. and Russia over Syria, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson clashing in Moscow with Vladimir Putin, saying relations are at a low point. Can the two nuclear superpowers bridge their widening rift? No longer obsolete. President Trump meets with the head of NATO and reaffirms the U.S. commitment to the organization, which he called into question out there on the campaign trail. We are going to get details of the meeting this hour in my exclusive interview with the NATO secretary-general, Jens Stoltenberg. Spying for Russia? Former Trump adviser Carter Page speaks out to CNN about reports the FBI obtained a secret court order to monitor his communications. But now sources tell us former campaign manager Paul Manafort is expected to register as foreign agent. Both men say they are willing to talk to congressional investigators. What would their testimony reveal? And mixed messages. President Trump says the U.S. is sending a powerful armada amid growing concern of an imminent nuclear test by North Korea. But his secretary of state says U.S. warships now heading to the region are on a routine mission. Will China heed Mr. Trump's request to step up and help rein in Kim Jong-un? We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in</s>THE SITUATION ROOM. ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.</s>BLITZER: We're following breaking news. President Trump and his top diplomat speaking bluntly about the worsening relationship between the U.S. and Russia. Following a White House meeting between the secretary-general just a little while ago, the president said ties with Moscow "may be at an all-time low." The president also reversed course on NATO, which he routinely slammed as a candidate, saying the organization is -- quote -- "no longer obsolete." The deep divisions between the U.S. and Russia were on full display as Secretary of State Rex Tillerson met with Russia's foreign minister and President Vladimir Putin in Moscow. Frosty talks yielding no agreement on Syria, with Tillerson lamenting what he called a low level of trust and declaring relations at a low point. The administration may be seeing results from its pressure on China to help rein in North Korea and its growing nuclear threat. With a weapons test expected at any time, China is now signaling it may restrict oil exports to the Kim Jong-un regime. And following a phone call with China's president, Mr. Trump says tonight he believes China wants to do the right thing. We are covering all of that and much more this hour with our guests, including the NATO secretary-general, Jens Stoltenberg. And our correspondent and expert analysts are also standing by. Let's begin with President Trump's grim assessment of the U.S.-Russian relations. Our senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, has the very latest. Jim, the president says ties with Moscow may be at an all-time low.</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. President Trump defended his actions in Syria over the last week at this news conference today and sounded surprisingly negative about Russia, something rarely heard from this president, who used to talk up his relationship with Vladimir Putin.</s>ACOSTA (voice-over): Still touting his decision to call in missile strikes in Syria, President Trump made his feelings clear about Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad.</s>DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's a butcher. That's a butcher. So, I felt we had to do something about it. I have absolutely no doubt we did the right thing.</s>ACOSTA: Standing with NATO secretary-general, the president did offer something of a shift in his tone toward Russia.</s>TRUMP: Right now, we're not getting along with Russia at all. We may be at an all-time low in terms of relationship with Russia.</s>ACOSTA: But the president stopped short of any criticism of the man who is arguably Assad's biggest backer, Russian President Vladimir Putin.</s>TRUMP: Putin is the leader of Russia. Russia is a strong country. We're a very, very strong country. We are going to see how that all works out.</s>ACOSTA: That's despite the fact that U.S. officials suspect Russia has been trying to cover up Syria's use of chemical weapons. The president even acknowledged the Trump administration is investigating whether Moscow had advanced knowledge of the chemical weapons attack that prompted last week's missile strikes.</s>TRUMP: I think it is certainly possible. I think it's probably unlikely. And I know they are doing investigations into that right now. I would like to think that they didn't know, but certainly they could have. They were there. So we will find out.</s>ACOSTA: Syria has placed the president in a tough spot when it comes to Putin.</s>TRUMP: Wouldn't it be nice if we actually got along with Russia?</s>ACOSTA: During the campaign and transition, Mr. Trump repeatedly held out hope for better relations between the U.S. and Russia.</s>TRUMP: If Putin likes Donald Trump, I consider that an asset, not a liability, because we have a horrible relationship with Russia. Russia can help us fight ISIS, which, by the way, is number one, tricky. If you look, this administration created ISIS by leaving at the wrong time. The void was created. ISIS was formed. If Putin likes Donald Trump, guess what, folks? That's called an asset, not a liability.</s>ACOSTA: The president is defending his actions in Syria, saying they were aimed at preventing the deaths of innocent children.</s>TRUMP: You see these beautiful kids that are dead in their father's arms or you see kids gasping for life. You know it's over. It's over for them.</s>ACOSTA: But in December of 2015, then candidate Trump scoffed at Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's use of chemical weapons.</s>TRUMP: Saddam Hussein throws a little gas, everyone goes crazy. Oh, it's because of gas.</s>ACOSTA: Another shift for the president on Russia is Mr. Trump's sudden support for NATO, an organization that Mr. Trump once described as obsolete.</s>TRUMP: I said it was obsolete. It is no longer obsolete.</s>ACOSTA: Speaking of changes in tone, the president also spoke rather glowingly of Chinese President Xi Jinping after their meeting down at Mar-a-Lago last week. Candidate Trump once attacked China as destroying U.S. jobs. Today, the president held out hope that he could craft a trade agreement with China and secure Chinese cooperation when it comes to dealing with North Korea. Of course, all of that, Wolf, we will have to wait and see if it actually happens, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Jim Acosta at the White House, thanks very much. In addition to the president's shifts on Russia and NATO, he is also changing his tone on China. He's pressuring the country's president to help contain North Korea's nuclear threat. Our senior White House correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, is joining us on that. Jeff, the president spoke with the Chinese president earlier by phone.</s>JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: He did, Wolf, indeed. He had a phone conversation with him last evening, but, Wolf, some of the biggest changes in this president's language comes toward China. No question about it. He delivered tough talk on the campaign trail, accused China, in fact blamed them of taking manufacturing jobs away from America's heartland and accusing them at one point of raping the U.S. His tone today though far more different, far more conciliatory. You might even say diplomatic.</s>TRUMP: Last night, separately, I spoke with a man that I have gotten to know. I don't know Putin, but I do know this gentleman. I have spent a lot of time with him over the last two days. And he is the president of China. You were there, most of you were there, and it was quite an interesting period of time. President Xi wants to do the right thing. We had a very good bonding. I think we had a very good chemistry together. I think he wants to help us with North Korea. We talked trade. We talked a lot of things. And I said the way you are going to make a good trade deal is to help us with North Korea. Otherwise, we are going to just go it alone. That will be all right too. But going it alone means going it with lots of other nations. But I was very impressed with President Xi and I think he means well and I think he wants to help.</s>ZELENY: Wolf, just a complete reversal there in the tenor and tone of his remarks. Also today in an interview with "The Wall Street Journal," he said he would no longer label China a currency manipulator, something he talked about so often on the campaign trail.</s>BLITZER: And, Jeff, the president also sounding different than candidate Trump used to sound on some other issues as well. Tell us about that.</s>ZELENY: He is indeed, Wolf. The list is stacking up. The Export-Import Bank is one of those examples. He talked against that on the campaign trail so many times. He told "The Wall Street Journal" today in a 70-minute interview that he now supports the Export-Import Bank. That's the public/private partnership that brings in some foreign business. Also, he now supports Janet Yellen, head of the Fed. He was such a strong opponent of hers, a critic of hers. But today he told "The Wall Street Journal" he now supports Janet Yellen.</s>BLITZER: Very interesting shifts indeed. All right, Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much. The president's grim assessment of U.S.-Russia relations echoing the view of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson after meeting with his Russian counterpart and President Vladimir Putin in Moscow. Tillerson said relations between the two countries right now are at a low point. Our senior diplomatic correspondent, Michelle Kosinski, is in Moscow for us tonight. Michelle, Putin is saying relations with the United States have grown worse under President Trump. Update our viewers.</s>MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: Yes, nobody today wanted to gloss that over. This relationship has devolved past that. And Tillerson just laid it right out there.</s>REX TILLERSON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I expressed the view that the current state of U.S.-Russia relations is at a low point. There is a low level of trust between our two countries. The world's two foremost nuclear powers cannot have this kind of relationship.</s>KOSINSKI: The good news is that U.S. and Russia are talking. They are talking about doing more talking. And that's about the best that could have come out of this. They are establishing a working group to tackle these issues. They think there needs to be more communication at a senior level. And they're reopening that channel that had been suspended to keep U.S. and Russian planes from getting in each other's ways over Syria. You can see the diplomatic dance. Each side was looking for some common ground. They didn't want this to be a fight or step backwards, but they still needed to make their point. So, Tillerson did that by getting right to the point, being very succinct. He wasn't going to keep hammering this home. Lavrov in this venue didn't outright blame others for the Syrian chemical attack. He didn't deny that Assad could have had a role. His deflection here was to keep saying there needs to be an investigation, we need more information, more information. And he did the same thing when talking about Russia's meddling in the U.S. election. The bad news, of course, is, even through these responses, you still keep seeing seeping through these deep shades of the divisions that still exist. Whether they can be resolved is a question. How long that could take is another. And what you don't hear is Russia backing away from supporting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad any time soon, Wolf.</s>BLITZER: Pretty comfortable in his Role as secretary of state. As you know, Michelle, he spent his career at ExxonMobil. He was the chairman and CEO. Now all of a sudden he is America's top diplomat. He seemed to come across as pretty serious and pretty much informed on all the key issues.</s>KOSINSKI: I thought so too. He was measured in his responses. I think this is one prime example that could go for everybody, including this administration, that sometimes just stating your case, getting right to the point, being brief works very well. And it was a good foil to Lavrov's lengthy explanations, and finger- pointing and blaming the Obama administration. I think Tillerson came out looking like even more of a statesman here.</s>BLITZER: Michelle Kosinski reporting from Moscow for us, Michelle, thank you very much. Let's get some more on all of this. The secretary-general of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg, is joining us here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Secretary-General, thank you so much for joining us.</s>JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL: Thank you so much for having me.</s>BLITZER: You had a very, very extensive day of talks with the president of the United States. We saw your news conference. First of all, he no longer thinks NATO is obsolete. I assume you are pretty happy about that.</s>STOLTENBERG: Yes, I am. And I think that reflects the reality that NATO is adapting when the world is changing. So, NATO is the most successful alliance in history because we have been able to change...</s>BLITZER: But he told you he is not happy. It is not moving as quickly as he would like. He is still upbeat about that, right?</s>STOLTENBERG: And I told him that I welcome that he is pushing for more adaptation, that NATO has to continue to change, especially when it comes to stepping up our efforts in fighting international terrorism. We do a lot, but we can do more. And also when it comes to fairer burden sharing inside the alliance, many allies have to invest more in defense.</s>BLITZER: I want to through all of those issues. Let's start off right now with Russia. Do you believe Russia knew that Syria was going to launch this chemical weapons attack against these civilians, killing all these children? And I assume you agree with the United States that the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad was responsible for this chemical weapons attack.</s>STOLTENBERG: Any use of chemical weapons is totally unacceptable. And we have seen that the Syrian regime has used chemical weapons against its own population before. And I have all reason to trust the intelligence coming from the United States. This was a U.S. operation based on U.S. intelligence. But NATO allies have expressed support and understanding, because chemical weapons is...</s>BLITZER: So, just to be precise, Secretary-General, do the 28 NATO allies all agree that Bashar al-Assad's regime killed all those civilians with a chemical weapons attack?</s>STOLTENBERG: As I said, this is a U.S. operation, the airstrikes against the airfield, based on U.S. intelligence. But NATO allies have expressed understanding and some also have expressed very strong support.</s>BLITZER: As an organization, is there a consensus that the Syrians did it?</s>STOLTENBERG: NATO's alliance is not present inside Syria. And so this is not an issue that we have in a way been involved in directly as an alliance. But, of course, all NATO allies are affected, because NATO allies are participating in the coalition fighting ISIL. And, thereby, many of them are present in Syria. And we are concerned about the situation in Syria. So, therefore, we have condemned the use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime before. And we have expressed also that we need a fact-finding mission, which is now established, to sort out actually...</s>BLITZER: So, I know NATO as an organization is not involved in this horrendous humanitarian crisis, the six-year war. Half-a-million people maybe have been killed. Millions have been made homeless. NATO is involved, as an organization, in Afghanistan, but why isn't NATO involved in fighting terrorism in Syria or Iraq?</s>STOLTENBERG: Well, NATO is involved also in supporting the fight against terrorism in both Syria and Iraq. In Iraq, we provide direct support to the coalition fighting ISIL. We have our AWACS surveillance planes helping to improve the air picture over Syria and Iraq. And we train Iraqi officers to help them fight international terrorism.</s>BLITZER: What is NATO doing in Syria?</s>STOLTENBERG: We are helping with air picture, with the air operations with our AWACS surveillance planes. But all NATO allies participate in different ways...</s>BLITZER: Because the U.S. has, what, about 1,000 ground troops in Syria right now. How many NATO troops, other than U.S. troops, are in Syria right now?</s>STOLTENBERG: NATO allies, like, for instance, the United States and United Kingdom, and some others, they have trainers inside Syria. But NATO, as an alliance, is not on the ground in Syria. What we do as an alliance is deploy support with our surveillance...</s>BLITZER: Because you know the president has repeatedly said, President Trump, that he is upset with NATO because NATO as an organization is not doing enough to fight terror. Did he say that to you today?</s>STOLTENBERG: He said that he would like NATO to do more. And I totally agree with him. And NATO plays a key role in Afghanistan. The reason why we are in Afghanistan is to fight international terrorism, prevent Afghanistan from becoming a safe haven for international terrorism. Then we are present in Iraq. We are scaling up our training activities there. I strongly believe that the best way to fight terrorism is to enable the local forces to fight terrorism themselves, to stabilize their own country. We are present in the wider Middle East region helping partners like Jordan, Tunisia to stabilize their country and to fight terrorism. And then we help also with the air operations over Syria with our AWACS surveillance planes. I believe NATO can do more. And that's exactly what we are looking into.</s>BLITZER: Is now there a new Cold War between the U.S. and Russia?</s>STOLTENBERG: It's not a new Cold War, but we have seen increased tensions. And the relationship between NATO and Russia has been worse for many years. And, for me, that just underlines the importance of what we call the dual-track approach from NATO. That is that we need to have strong, credible deterrence, combined with political dialogue with Russia, because Russia is our biggest neighbor. Russia is here to stay. And so we have to find a way to manage our relationship with them, and we have to avoid a new Cold War and a new arms race, and therefore what NATO does is proportional, defensive. But we are reacting when we see a more assertive Russia.</s>BLITZER: But the president, President Trump says there is fear in Europe, there is fear among the NATO alliance, among the NATO allies of Russia right now. Is that fear justified?</s>STOLTENBERG: We don't see any imminent threat against any NATO-allied country. But we see a more assertive Russia, which has used military force against the European neighbor Ukraine, and which is using hybrid warfare, cyber-attacks, to intimidate also NATO-allied countries. And, therefore, we are stepping up our collective defense. We have implemented the biggest reinforcement to our collective defense since the end of the Cold War, and at least we are working on, for instance, cyber-defenses.</s>BLITZER: The whole NATO alliance is built under the assumption, as you know, Secretary-General, that if one NATO ally is attacked, it is an attack on all the NATO allies. Is that still applicable? Now if the Russians, for example, were to take steps against one of the NATO allies closest to Russia, would all the other NATO allies, including the U.S. and Canada and Britain and everyone else, respond immediately?</s>STOLTENBERG: Yes. And that's the core responsibility of NATO, that it's based on one for all and all for one. So, an attack on one ally would trigger the response...</s>BLITZER: So what's your message it Putin right now on that? Because there is a lot of fear in some of those NATO alliances closer to Russia that Putin could take some steps, as he did with Ukraine, for example, take some steps that would be rather provocative.</s>STOLTENBERG: Well, Ukraine is not a member of NATO. We provide support for Ukraine, but Ukraine is not covered by the NATO security guarantee.</s>BLITZER: That's correct.</s>STOLTENBERG: Yes. The Baltic countries, Poland, other eastern...</s>BLITZER: A lot of nervousness in Poland right now.</s>STOLTENBERG: Yes. But we don't see -- it is important now to react in a measured and responsible way. We see increased tensions. We see a more aggressive Russia, but we don't see any imminent threat for military attack against any NATO ally country, not least because NATO is strong and NATO has increased our military presence in the eastern part of alliance with U.S. troops, with Canadian troops, with German troops, with troops from the United Kingdom. So, we are increasing our presence in eastern part of the alliance to send the clear signal of credible...</s>BLITZER: Because I know, in the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, there's a lot of tension and nervousness right now. Ukraine. Do you believe Ukraine should be a member of NATO?</s>STOLTENBERG: That's for Ukraine to decide whether they want to apply. Then for NATO to decide whether they want to apply. And then if Ukraine applies, then it's for 28 NATO allies to decide whether Ukraine qualify. Ukraine has clearly stated that they now are focused on reforming their defense sector to meet the NATO standards and then later will decide on whether they will apply for membership. We have clearly stated that NATO is always open, but to become a member, you have to qualify. You have to meet the NATO standards.</s>BLITZER: The whole notion of NATO expanding right now is one that you clearly support, right? You're about to admit maybe another country?</s>STOLTENBERG: Yes, we are very close to admit Montenegro.</s>BLITZER: And President Trump said he would support that.</s>STOLTENBERG: Yes. And he has signed, and everything is in order. The ratification process is now finished or completed in the United States.</s>BLITZER: We have a lot more to discuss. But, very quickly, when will all of the 28 NATO allies pay -- spend at least 2 percent of their GDP on defense? Right now, only a handful do.</s>STOLTENBERG: Well, what we decided in 2014 was to stop the cuts and then gradually increase and then move towards spending 2 percent within a decade. And I expect all NATO allies to make good on that promise.</s>BLITZER: When? By when?</s>STOLTENBERG: Within a decade.</s>BLITZER: Within a decade. Right now, only five of the 28 countries do that.</s>STOLTENBERG: But the good news is that next year, we likely go from five to eight. But perhaps even more important, we see also older allies which did not meet the 2 percent have started to increase defense spending. So, after many years of decline, 2016 was the first year we saw a significant increase in defense spending.</s>BLITZER: Because I have interviewed President Trump. This is a big issue, as you well know. I'm sure he was railing on it at the White House today.</s>STOLTENBERG: Absolutely. And I agree with him. When NATO allies have made a promise, they should deliver it. But they didn't promise to meet the 2 percent target next year. They promised to move towards 2 percent within a decade from 2014.</s>BLITZER: And what does he mean, the president, when he says all of these NATO allies, they have to repay for the money they didn't spend in years past? He raised that with you today, too.</s>STOLTENBERG: Yes. And he has expressed the same view in meetings with other European leaders. I have stated that I expect NATO allies to start to increase defense spending. And they have started to move in the right direction. After many years of cuts, defense spending is now going up in Europe.</s>BLITZER: All right, Secretary-General, there's more issues I want to raise with you. I need to take a quick break. we will resume our conversation right after this.