Wisconsin Attorney General Interviewed on Investigation into Shooting of Jacob Blake by Kenosha Police; President Trump Visits Kenosha, Wisconsin, But Does Not Mention Jacob Blake's Name During Visit
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Sharing your personal experience with us this morning.</s>STEPHANIE WINSTON WOLKOFF, AUTHOR, "MELANIA AND ME": Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much.</s>CAMEROTA: NEW DAY continues right now.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A National Institutes of Health panel says doctors should not use convalescent plasma for COVID-19.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The data around that didn't really reflect reality of what those trials showed.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's great to talk about this utopian kind of idea where everybody has a test every day and we can do that. I don't live in a utopian world.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe systemic racism is a problem in this country?</s>DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We should talk about the kind of violence that we've seen here in Portland and here and other places.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not talking politics. My son is an actual human being. So if you don't know my son's name, it's Jacob Blake.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.</s>JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. And wow, what an interview that just was that you had with Stephanie Winston Wolkoff who wrote the new book about Melania Trump. It was even better when I saw it the first time in "Game of Thrones."</s>CAMEROTA: Listen, there's so much in this book. It's a page-turner because she doesn't pull any punches. You heard her. She believed she had a best friend. She now feels very used. And so she explains how she got from there to here.</s>BERMAN: I have to say, the machinations and the production over arranging the photo at the inauguration and Ivanka Trump sending pictures of where she wanted to be and what they did to make sure she wasn't there.</s>CAMEROTA: It's all in here, and it's very juicy, but, as she said, sort of leaves you feeling dirty in some ways because of how calculating it is.</s>BERMAN: Winter is coming, as they say in "Game of Thrones." Big news this morning. More than 1,000 American lives lost to coronavirus in a single day, again. God help us if the country gets numb to that. This morning there is growing concern about a rise of cases in the Midwest. The White House Coronavirus Task Force is particularly concerned about Iowa, which you can see in red there. That state registered a 22 percent positivity rate in testing yesterday. Think about that. That's more than one in five people tested who had the virus. The task force is calling for a mask mandate, the closing of the bars, and a plan for reopening universities in Iowa. The governor there, though, has been reluctant. Sound familiar? As of this morning, more than 25,000 coronavirus cases have been reported at colleges and universities in at least 37 states. Iowa State University in Ames, one of the cities seeing the worst outbreak right now, is not only allowing football. It also plans to let 25,000 fans into the stadium to watch in a couple of weeks.</s>CAMEROTA: Also this morning, a remarkable move from a medical panel at the National Institutes of Health. They say there is no evidence to support the use of convalescent plasma to treat coronavirus patients. That puts them at odds with President Trump and the FDA which has fast tracked approval of that treatment. We're following the fallout from President Trump's visit to Kenosha. He did not visit with Jacob Blake's family. In fact, he never said Jacob Blake's his name.</s>BERMAN: So joining me now is the attorney general of Wisconsin, Josh Kaul, who is leading the state's investigation into the Blake shooting. Mr. Attorney General, thank you very much for being with us. So the president did go to Kenosha. The governor of Wisconsin didn't want him to. I don't think you wanted him to. Now that it's the morning after, now that the president did not mention Jacob Blake's name, what do you think the impact of that visit was?</s>JOSH KAUL, (D) WISCONSIN ATTORNEY GENERAL: Thanks for having me. The reason we didn't want president Trump to come to Kenosha, and the mayor of Kenosha also asked him not to come, is that the situation on the ground has improved significantly over the last few days, but it's still a tense situation. And this president consistently fans the flames of tension rather than defuses the situations. And what we saw yesterday was, unfortunately, consistent with what we expected. He didn't acknowledge systemic racism. He didn't talk about condemning the violence that we saw from a vigilante who killed two people and shot a third person. It's not the kind of leadership we need, and hopefully we will see that kind of condemnation from the White House and somebody who is trying to unify people rather than divide us going forward.</s>BERMAN: You just brought up Kyle Rittenhouse. He is the 17-year-old charged in two deaths in the protests there. I know your office is not investigating him per se, but I do want to know what you think the impact on enforcing the law is when the president in a way offers a defense for the actions of Kyle Rittenhouse. What are your concerns that the impact of that will be going forward?</s>KAUL: It makes our communities less safe when the president does this. Going all the way back to Charlottesville when the president talked about there being very fine people on both sides, he's refused to condemn vigilante violence, militia violence, white supremacist violence. We need to be clear that violence no matter what the motivation is unacceptable. Violence and destruction in our communities is not acceptable. It's a simple thing to say. We need the president to say it. When he doesn't say that, it emboldens people who are vigilantes like this. So I hope we see a clear condemnation soon.</s>BERMAN: So your office is leading the investigation into the shooting of Jacob Blake. Can you give us an update on where that investigation stands and how much evidence you have collected?</s>KAUL: We're an independent investigating agency. We're now part of the Kenosha Police Department. We are the Wisconsin Department of Justice. That process ensures that the investigation will be conducted independently, but also with integrity. We want to have a full and thorough investigation. We're moving as swiftly as we can consistent with those goals, and we're vigorously pursuing justice. Over 80 witnesses have been interviewed, over 100 pieces of evidence has been collected, and the investigation continues to move forward.</s>BERMAN: More than 20 videos, I understand. Is that just cell phone video, video from the area, or is there actual dash cam footage?</s>KAUL: There are a variety of texts and videos, but it does include dash cam video. The fact that a video was collected, though, I want to emphasize, doesn't mean that it shows anything that's relevant to the case necessarily. These are just videos that were collected. And the reason it's so important that we have such a thorough investigation here is so we can get to the truth of what happened. We can get justice for those involved, and the people of Kenosha will know that the investigation conducted here is one that was fair and thorough.</s>BERMAN: And I know there's a lot you can't talk about with the investigation, so in broad terms, explain to me the policy in Wisconsin for police to use their firearms. When it is justified?</s>KAUL: An officer is allowed to use deadly force or force that potentially could be deadly if the officer reasonably believes that a person threatens either their life or the life of a third person or to cause serious bodily injury to them or a third person, if that threat is imminent.</s>BERMAN: So explain to people so they understand who have seen the video where they see what appears to be Jacob Blake moving away from the officers, how then could that pose a reasonable threat to an officer?</s>KAUL: I'm not going to weigh in on the ultimate merits of the investigation. Ultimately a charging decision is going to be made by a prosecutor here. But we want to gather every piece of evidence we can that bears on that question of whether there was any imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to either an officer or to a third person so that we have as full of a case as possible so that if no charges end up being brought in this case, it's as clear to the public why that's the case as possible. And if charges are brought, that the case is as strong as possible and that the prosecution will be as strong as possible.</s>BERMAN: Hypothetically, can someone pose a reasonable threat to an officer if they're moving away from an officer?</s>KAUL: I don't want to weigh in on hypotheticals. Our goal is collect the facts as fully and fairly as possible. And ultimately the prosecutor is going to make a judgment about whether there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt for charges. And if charges are brought, a jury is going to make the decision about where that -- where the facts are and how the standard applies to the facts.</s>BERMAN: Attorney General Josh Kaul, we do appreciate your time. Thanks so much for being with us this morning.</s>KAUL: Thanks for having me.</s>CAMEROTA: Joining us now, CNN political commentator Van Jones and CNN White House correspondent John Harwood. Van, I want to start with you about the president's trip to Kenosha quickly. He didn't meet with the Blake family. Do you understand what the point of that trip was?</s>VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't. But I do know that the longer we talk about violence and unrest and how he's handling it or not handling, it's all advantage Trump. In other words, this campaign is going well for Donald Trump because we're not talking about the economic devastation that people are experiencing, or the virus really. I think it's time for us to recognize we are in a very perilous situation if you want to see a change in November. We have two social movements. Both have edges of violence to them, one on the left, one on the right. I think it's baked in that Donald Trump is not going to challenge very strongly the police violence and the vigilante violence, and a lot of people, frankly, are comfortable with that. The question is, how are Democrats and progressives going to deal with the edges of violence in our own movement? I think that Joe Biden can actually begin to move his own movement in a better direction, lead a national moratorium on these nighttime marches. That would separate the responsible, productive demonstrations that have united the whole world from some of these other demonstrations that are just not as useful. There are things that Joe Biden and other progressives can do. They can begin to push down on the violence in our movement, and then turn it back toward the people who are actually suffering. The businesses -- there have been a couple of hundred businesses that have been hurt by arsonists. There have been thousands that have been destroyed by mishandling this virus. We've got to get off of this conversation around unrest and back to the conversation around the literally millions of people who are suffering from the Trump economy and the mishandling of the virus.</s>BERMAN: Along those lines, John Harwood, I can't help but notice this was, Wisconsin is in the Midwest and is awfully close to Iowa where there has been this incredible rise in coronavirus cases, a 22 percent positivity rate yesterday. The president was right there. He was right next door. What did he say about the pandemic when he made his visit to the Midwest yesterday?</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He didn't focus on the pandemic at all. And that's part of the point that Van is making. I will say, though, that Americans are living through this pandemic. They know day to day about the economic dislocation in their communities. They know about the death toll in their communities. So I'm not sure trying to talk about something else when Americans are living that reality is necessarily all that effective. But what we've seen from the president is he's affirming exactly what Joe Biden says he's doing. Joe Biden is going, saying I condemn violence on the left, I condemn violence on the right. Most police are good, most protesters are good, let's pull the country together. Donald Trump is saying, no, I'm not doing that. I am trying to do divide. I am not going to say Jacob Blake's name. I'm not going to talk about systemic racism. I'm only going to focus on the police and people supporting the police. I'm going to cheer on, egg on these white vigilantes who have injected themselves into the situation. And his calculation in a campaign that he's losing is that if I can turn the temperature high enough, then I can bring out the salience of fears among white people about the ways the country is changing and make them concerned for their safety. There is not a lot of evidence so far that that's working. The vast majority of the people say the country is headed in the wrong direction, but we're going to watch the polling over the next couple of weeks and see in the aftermath of these conventions whether this shift in the conversation that Van referred to is going to be effective.</s>CAMEROTA: Yes, what about that, Van? As John just said, former VP Biden did come out and unequivocally condemn the violence. But are you saying it hasn't been loud enough, not enough people on your side, the Democratic side, are doing it? How do you -- do you think he can seize this moment in a different way?</s>JONES: Look, I think the vast majority of people remember the summer where we had massive, peaceful protests, people of every color, every kind. You had white people doing peaceful protests, talking about Black Lives Matter in Utah where there ain't no black people. That was, people said it was maybe the biggest social justice movement in history of humanity, just this summer, overwhelmingly nonviolent. And I think that, we've got to get back to that sense of good will and unity coming together to solve tough problems. And right now that's being overshadowed by some of the edges of unrest on either side, mostly on the vigilante side, but some on the progressive side as well. How do you do that? First of all, I do think a moratorium on nighttime marches would be a useful common ground that Biden could be a part of. I think also we're coming up on 200,000 deaths. There should be a national week of mourning where we bring forward all of these voices, all of these stories of the people that we lost. I think also people are tired of the lockdown, and when you only say us saying we're going to follow the science, people start to get afraid that Biden is going to keep us locked down. The chink in Trump's armor that has not been exploited is the need for tests for all. It is possible to have a national program for testing for everybody on a regular basis, and that would let you open up the economy and the schools safely. Donald Trump doesn't like the tests. Let's mourn the people who are suffering. Let's focus on the businesses that have been destroyed by his mishandling of the economy. And let's also have a real solution, tests for all, which would open things up. We have got to get back to our solution set. We've got to get back to the economy and COVID. We cannot stay in a conversation, no, you're for violence, no, you're for violence, no you're for violence. That all plays to Donald Trump because we're not talking about the things that most people care about, as Mr. Harwood just mentioned.</s>BERMAN: The president is not talking about that stuff at all, for sure, John Harwood. Instead he is twice in two days inventing this crazy story about a plane. First, he says it was a plane coming to D.C., then he said it was a plane going to D.C. The plane is going somewhere, he can't figure out where the plane is going, but he's convinced that he had someone who told him that it was a plane full of what he calls thugs going to demonstrate somewhere, either in Washington or a different city. He can't seem to figure out which one. But no one at the White House or the Trump White House can provide a shred of evidence that this plane exists or that someone actually told him about the plane. So what's going on here? Is this a delusion? Is this a lie or is it option "C," all of the above?</s>JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, probably option "C". But we do know on Facebook, rumors of some vague event of this kind had been circulating, The president tends to circulate things that he sees online. What the president is doing and again we were talking about this before, he's been losing support this year among white suburbanites, especially women, among his white working class supporters. And so, he's trying to change that equation. What he's doing with this rumor is inviting people to imagine their worst fears about people coming to their communities, people coming to get you. He doesn't have evidence for it, but that's not the point. The point is to make people afraid. I also think it is not irrelevant. You were talking in the last hour about this ABC report about the Russians encouraging the speculation about Joe Biden's mental fitness and the Trump campaign is doing the same thing. This kind of encouragement of division and racial incitement is precisely what Russian intelligence had been doing in 2016 and what they're doing right now. We know from Robert Mueller that the president welcomed the Russian assistance in 2016. There's every reason to believe as they curtail the intelligence briefing for members on the Hill that he's doing the same thing. He's simply trying this as a tactic, trying to magnify the extent of division on the idea that that will help him, that will revive some of his flagging support among white people, and we do not know whether that's going to be effective.</s>BERMAN: John Harwood, Van Jones, thank you both so much for being with us this morning. A quick programming note. Be sure to join Wolf Blitzer for an exclusive hour-long interview with Attorney General William Barr. Watch it on "THE SITUATION ROOM" today at 5:00 p.m., only on</s>CNN. BERMAN: As we mentioned, Iowa now has the highest coronavirus infection rate in the United States. Why it's spreading there, why are they going to put 25,000 people in a stadium to watch a football game? What's being done about it? That's next.</s>ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, we've been talking about suburban white women who voted for President Trump in 2016. How do they feel after his coronavirus response?</s>CAMEROTA: So, just to be clear, L.A. You don't believe that 183,000 Americans have died?</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not of COVID, no.</s>UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want you to know that I'm nurse. And I've been a nurse for 27 years and the response to the pandemic has actually been President Trump's greatest achievement.</s>CAMEROTA: OK. We'll fact check some of those things when we get the pulse of the people, next.