Tripoli Under Attack; Loud Gunfire in Tripoli Now; Fierce Fighting Near Rebel Base
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We're going to leave the President there in Brazil. I'm joined right now by Michael Holmes of CNN International, as we reach our audience around the world, in the U.S., and beyond. And now we understand that while the president is speaking -- and he was just touching on what this revolution that may have been unfolding in various parts of the Middle East, including that of Libya, we're actually going to go to Libya right now, because our international correspondent, Nic Robertson, is there.</s>HOLMES: Yes. Nic, if you've got us there, I'm hearing that you're seeing some action there. What news do you have?</s>NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're hearing heavy anti-aircraft gunfire, as we heard last night, and seeing tracer rounds, anti-aircraft tracer rounds, fly up into the sky. This started about two or three minutes ago. These heavy anti-aircraft fire coming from a similar position that it was coming up from last night, when we heard missiles crash into the city. And as a consequence of that, we saw anti-aircraft gunfire fired up. We're seeing those same tracers in the last couple of minutes fly up here in that heavy anti-aircraft gunfire. It's gone quiet at the moment. Those guns have stopped shooting at the moment. We can hear some smaller guns firing at this time.</s>ROBERTSON: Oh, there it goes again. More tracer fire shooting up into the sky, coming from at least a couple of different weapons. It appears there's a couple of different streams going up into the sky as I talk to you here.</s>HOLMES: Let's just listen, Nic. It appears to have stopped, actually. You could hear it clearly in the background there. You were saying anti-aircraft fire, so it's outgoing. Is there any indication you've seen of incoming?</s>ROBERTSON: I don't know if you could hear that, but that was the gunfire going up into the sky. You're looking at the skyline now. The gunfire, tracer rounds were flying up over those trees. There they go again.</s>HOLMES: Nic, I was asking if there's any indication that you've seen of incoming fire to be the cause of that outgoing?</s>ROBERTSON: I'm not aware of it at the moment. We haven't heard any of those sort of heavy, crashing bangs that we heard last night associated with the incoming missile, but the heavy anti-aircraft gunfire that we're seeing now was fired and appeared to be triggered by an attack last night, perhaps on this anti-aircraft gun position that's firing now. They believe there is as an attack coming, or one is imminent, and that's why they're firing at this time. But we haven't heard any loud explosions. The explosions last night were towards the east of the city. There seems to sort of have been two separate attacks within the space of about five minutes last night on the city. At least two or three missiles falling in the east of the city at a military air base along the coastline in the east of the city. We're listening now and we can continue to hear this heavy gunfire going off here.</s>ROBERTSON: So, at this stage, Michael, it's not clear to us what is exactly being targeted at the moment, but the gunfire is still going off.</s>HOLMES: Yes. Nic, any sign of anything from the government in the last hour or more?</s>ROBERTSON: There's no response to this particular incident that we're witnessing right now from the government. We were expecting to hear from an army spokesman and a Foreign Ministry spokesman shortly. But at the moment, that press conference that was outlooked (ph) perhaps a half an hour ago hasn't begun. I'm not sure if it will be held because of this current situation, but it certainly appears, the way that these anti-aircraft guns are being fired into the sky right now, it certainly appears that this anti- aircraft battery -- and there appears to be perhaps two of them in that direction we're looking -- seem to think that they may come under attack. They seem to think there's something they need to shoot at in the sky right now --- Michael.</s>HOLMES: Yes. Nic, I'm wondering if you've been able to ascertain exactly what sort of targets there would be around the capital itself. Obviously, anti-aircraft in place have been the targets of the initial barrage of missiles that came in from the sea and of some of these aircraft runs by the coalition. Tripoli itself, well-defended, as we know, along the coast there near Tripoli. There's an impressive battle.</s>ROBERTSON: There's a number of locations around the city that are well-defended. Certainly, around the palace, where we believe Moammar Gadhafi is reported to live, there are defenses there. But -- and there are defenses around the military bases, the military airfield. But in general, there are not many heavy anti-aircraft guns or weapons, or even much military presence deployed in and around the city. Certainly, there are people at checkpoints with AK-47s, but not a heavy military presence -- Michael.</s>HOLMES: Yes. And Nic, as we go forward here, what is your sense around the city? I know it's been very difficult, and you've mentioned this to us before, about the difficulty of getting any real access to real people, if you like. Is there any way you've been able to ascertain what the mood there is like, as opposed to where</s>ROBERTSON: Well, the people that we've been able to talk to so far -- and there are people who talk to us here and who tell us of their concerns. People are necessarily supporters of the government, and they tell us of their concerns about the situation. They're concerned because they're not sure what's going to come next. Their families are scared. Their children are scared. And this gives them a great, great cause for concern. But there are obviously a lot of people here who are strongly behind the government, and they're telling us that this is going to strengthen Moammar Gadhafi's leadership, of people falling in behind him. But I think the overall feeling we get, that this is not something the county has experienced before. They haven't witnessed -- many people in this city haven't witnessed these type of aerial attacks and the heavy anti-aircraft gunfire, firing up like this, in anything other than celebratory gunfire. So this is uncharted territory, and people are very nervous about this. It's certainly going to cause a great deal of concern in the city with this anti-aircraft gunfire going off tonight. Even if people don't know why it's being shot, or have not heard any loud explosion, they're going to be very concerned.</s>HOLMES: And obviously, uncharted territory as well, in terms of the no fly zone and its prosecution, as it unfolds, too. I mean, is it to protect civilians, or is it to support a revolt? Obviously, a lot of questions yet to be answered on that as well in terms of what happens here.</s>ROBERTSON: Certainly, a lot of questions. I mean, one looks at the way that the army of Moammar Gadhafi, the military, has lined up just outside Benghazi, which (ph) was destroyed during air strikes. We've heard various calls for his army to pull back westward. We were just now outside the town of</s>HOLMES: Yes, that's a very good point, Nic, whether it's perhaps for a show for the people. We just don't know at the moment. In the broader picture, some analysis, if you will, I mean, if Gadhafi were to stop in place, no gunfire, no anti-aircraft, no artillery, just stop, where does that leave the coalition? The coalition, presumably, then, would have no reason to continue the no-fly zone, or at least the action. You've got a stalemate, don't you?</s>ROBERTSON: Potentially. We've heard about the need to bring in humanitarian aid. Certainly in this part of the country, not far from Benghazi, humanitarian aid appears to be what was needed. There's been talk of brining in -- or making sure humanitarian aid was getting through. The real test for the international community is going to be, are the civilian population safe? Are they being treated well? Are people -- are the people's human rights being respected? And do they have freedom of speech and freedom to voice their either anger at the government or their opposition or concern about the government? But it's difficult to see how the international community would get</s>WHITFIELD: So, Nic -- Fredricka here -- real quick, you mentioned -- and just kind of resetting for people who are just now beginning to join us. You're in Tripoli right there, where we're hearing the sounds and seeing sights of this anti-aircraft gunfire. And you talked earlier about, generally, there isn't a heavy military presence right there in Tripoli. However, there would be defenses around the palace, where, presumably, Gadhafi would be. And that there are some military bases. So give us an idea of the proximity of where you are to any of those locations that you mentioned. There would be heavy military defenses, or at least a presence.</s>WHITFIELD: And if, Nic, if you could reposition yourself one more time, because we're losing your audio.</s>ROBERTSON: We're about a mile, about a kilometer and a half away from one of the presidential</s>WHITFIELD: OK. We've almost lost your audio completely.</s>ROBERTSON: -- or spent some of his time in Tripoli. And we're probably about four or five miles away from the military air bases here on the east of the city -- Fredricka.</s>WHITFIELD: All right. That does give us kind of a vantage point about where you are. Now we're seeing some other images here with a bit more light. I don't know if, Nic, you're able to kind of describe what we're seeing right there. For a second it looked like we saw some vehicles, maybe even some military vehicles being lit up there on the ground.</s>HOLMES: And then panned up. These pictures coming from Reuters news agency. Nic, it's interesting, the sustained -- go ahead.</s>ROBERTSON: These pictures we're looking at here, we're pointing in one direction towards that palace area. I was describing the palace area Moammar Gadhafi uses, about a mile away, and there's other pictures that point to sort of about 180 degrees in the opposite direction. They're pointing more towards the center of the city and would, perhaps, if there was any explosions on the horizon, on probably what would be the right-hand side of the picture you're looking at, might be able to pick up an explosion if there were one, or an attack on the military air bases, sort of on the eastern edges of Tripoli. So we're looking sort of at these two different cameras. The one you're looking at now, looking more towards the center of the city and the east of the city, towards that military air base, although it's some, probably, four or five miles away. And the camera we were looking at before, pointing towards the palace area about a mile away from us.</s>WHITFIELD: So interesting, too, Nic, on that Reuters imagery we were just seeing. We saw the one structure. You could also see some lights, vehicles that were driving about. Presumably, it just looked like going about their business on a very -- on a relatively busy evening on the street there. But I wonder if that helps bring us to kind of the behavior of the citizens there in Tripoli over the past 24 hours since these strikes have been under way throughout various parts of Libya. Have people been reticent, been reluctant to get out of their homes because of this kind of uncertainty? Or are they trying to go about their daily lives, at least in the city of Tripoli?</s>ROBERTSON: Well, certainly there's been less traffic on the roads than you would normally expect to see on a Sunday here, but by no means have the roads been deserted. Twenty four hours ago on the streets here before any missiles hit close to Tripoli, there was sort of a party atmosphere. Fireworks were being fired. People were rallying to the palace. To sort of show support for Moammar Gadhafi, his loyalists were rallying there. After the first round of missile strikes had occurred, people have very much thinned out and there was security on the street and there was perhaps about midnight local time a little before that. But for the day, there's been plenty of traffic out and about on the streets and this afternoon it's been a very sunny warm day here and the city has not had any attacks during the day. And it would seem that people had felt they could at least get out and about. Obviously some people have been buying provisions, concerned about what's happening. But we have heard from people that are very concerned about the strikes that have come close to their neighborhood in the east of the city, they're worried about if this is going to impact on them. They haven't been through this. It sounds perhaps it's worth repeating, really, that obviously no one here really knows what to expect at this time. What to expect from their government, what to expect from the international community and it's that fear of the unknown. That really makes people the most concerned. It's a city of two million people, people with families, obviously. And some of these people have expressed their concerns for us. Even people opposed to this government expressed their fears and concerns to us.</s>HOLMES: You mentioned the palace area. We've actually got pictures coming in now of Gadhafi supporters we're told, demonstrating, this appearing presumably on state television, Libyan state TV indeed. On the right of the screen, it's obviously not a very big crowd. On the left of the screen, not sure if the pictures are coming there live or not there have been some remarkably small gatherings there. What's your Intel there, Nic?</s>ROBERTSON: Well, we certainly know that there's been a rally in Green Square in the center of Tripoli, which just the picture on the left hand side of your screen. And oftentimes, we'll see the rallies shot fairly close up. It gives an impression of a lot of people being there. When in actual time, there are not so many people there. That was perhaps more what you're seeing on the right hand side of the screen there. That on the right hand side of the screen, you're looking at people that are inside Moammar Gadhafi's palace compound, the one that's about a mile away from here. The building behind them is the building that the United States bombed in 1986 after U.S. servicemen were killed by a terrorist bomb in Germany. And on the left it does appear to be Green Square. It's not clear to us if these are live pictures. But the government here has gone to a lot of pains in the past few weeks to put up live pictures to try to sort of continually verify in some way that they're live. But it's impossible for us to know just at the moment. But it's certainly the image, the leadership here wants, the country to see, wants the world to see. I get the impression with the length of time, we've heard the anti-aircraft gun fire, we haven't heard any explosions and these gun fires have been sustained now over quite a period. Intimately, Michael.</s>HOLMES: You raise an interesting point, too, Nic, and we don't know for sure, but whether such sustained gun fire outgoing like that, could have been more for show for the people. Than as a result of any direct attack. And you're quite right, the crowd on the right hand side of the screen there from inside the palace, remarkably small and also perhaps a political message going out that the civilians in the palace area, Nic.</s>ROBERTSON: Well, this is very much the message of the government was wanting to show yesterday. The people were described as protecting the palace here in the one instance and the main international airport in another instance and in Moammar Gadhafi's home city along the coast, about 350 kilometers east of here. There was also a small gathering of that large international airport there as well. So yes, this is to show the international community that if you try to bomb the locations, there are civilians here, and the government would say these people are here as volunteers. And certainly the people we saw yet streaming in and out of the palace compound, they didn't appear to be coerced at all. They were loyalist of this government believing of what this government tells them. Obviously a population of two million in the city, the thousand or so we saw in quite a tiny handful when you add in the other several thousand we saw on the streets in support of the government, Michael.</s>HOLMES: Yes, good, Nic. Appreciate that. We'll leave, but we'll stay in touch as this continues to develop there in Tripoli.</s>FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Right and one have to wonder whether those images are a reflection of people who are indeed loyal to Gadhafi or if this is a result of a form of intimidation. Whether people feel they have to be largely in public support of Gadhafi.</s>HOLMES: Or whether as if Nic was pointing out, almost a human shield, saying there are civilians right outside my palace, just in case you're thinking of anything.</s>WHITFIELD: That's right we're going to move a few hundred miles now east to the city of Benghazi, along the Mediterranean coast there. That's where why find our Arwa Damon. Arwa, not incredibly quiet in the city of Tripoli. Last we checked with you it was very quiet there in Benghazi. Kind of set the scene on what's taking place there right now.</s>ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, it still is pretty quiet here although the city remains tense. We've seen an increase in checkpoints all of the shops here by and large are remaining closed following the assault that we saw of Gadhafi's troops taking place yesterday. People still very much on edge, although greatly reassured by the presence of the air jets we've been hearing overhead, very grateful that the no-fly zone is finally being enforced. Just a short distance outside of the Benghazi, some 20 miles, 30 kilometers out is an area where Gadhafi's military had been massing once again. Eye witnesses say for another attack. They were pounded by foreign fighter jets. For a distance that stretched for a good few kilometers. We could see the debris, the burnt-out military vehicles. Ranging from SUVs that were being used, to armored personnel carriers. Tanks with their turrets blown off. We also saw around four or five charred bodies belong doing the Gadhafi forces, eye witnesses were telling us. People are celebrating on top of many of these vehicles expressing their gratitude to the international community for bringing Gadhafi's military machine to a halt. Just to give you an idea, during the assault by Gadhafi's forces on Benghazi, medical forces say at least 95 people were killed. If the fighter jets had not managed to bring his military machine to a halt, they say they would have seen even more bloodshed, possibly even a bigger massacre taking place, Fredricka.</s>WHITFIELD: All right, Arwa Damon, thanks so much, appreciate that from Benghazi. And when we come back, of course, we're going to have our continuing coverage of all that's taking place in Libya. We're also going to be joined by Little Rock, Arkansas, from General Wesley Clark who's a contributor.</s>HOLMES: And we'll pop in on Cairo as well. A lot to cover. Stick around.