Democratic Presidential Candidate Joe Biden Criticizes President Trump for Pressuring Ukrainian President to Investigate Biden's Son Hunter Biden; Whistleblower Files Complaint regarding President Trump Making Promise to Foreign Leader during Phone Conversation
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there. Thanks for joining me. I'm Martin Savidge in for Fredricka Whitfield. We're going to begin this hour with Joe Biden on the attack against President Trump. It was a fiery exchange with reporters he held. The Democratic presidential candidate calling for an investigation into President Trump's controversial phone call with the president of Ukraine. It was all taking place at a campaign stop in Iowa today. Biden pushed back at unproven claims that he and his son had acted inappropriately in their dealings with the Ukrainian government during Biden's time as vice president. And he accused President Trump of abuse of power.</s>JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Here's what I know. I know Trump deserves to be investigated. He is violating every basic norm of a president. You should be asking him the question, why is he on the phone with a foreign leader, trying to intimidate a foreign leader, if that's what happened? That appears what happened. You should be looking at Trump. Trump is doing this because he knows I'll beat him like a drum, and he is using the abuse of power and every element of the presidency to try to do something to smear me. Everybody looked at this, and everybody that looked at it said there's nothing there.</s>SAVIDGE: This all centers on a conversation that President Trump had at the end of July with the Ukrainian president which prompted a whistleblower complaint to the intelligence community inspector general. A source telling CNN during the call Trump pressed Ukraine's president to investigate Joe Biden's son Hunter, who once worked for a Ukrainian energy company. It's important to note there is no evidence of wrongdoing by either Joe or Hunter Biden. In a tweet today, the president insisted, quote, "Nothing was said that was in any way wrong" in his conversation with the Ukrainian leader. Jeremy Diamond is covering these developments at the White House, but we're going to begin with CNN's Jessica Dean who is in Iowa. And Jessica, what else did Biden have to say? He really was fired up.</s>JESSICA DEAN: He was very fired up, Martin, and he had a lot to say to the press. We talked to him yesterday and he was very short with his answer, but today he came ready to talk to the media and, as you see, really point all the attention back on President Trump and his allies. It is interesting, if you go to a fundraiser he had in South Carolina back in May, he told the group there, I know they're going to go after me and my family. He foreshadowed this months ago. He's talked about how this weighed heavily on him when he was deciding whether he should run or not, about the personal attacks that he anticipated from President Trump. Here's what he had to say to that. Take a listen.</s>JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know what I'm up against. I know what I'm up against, a serial abuser. That's what this guy is. He abuses power everywhere he can, and if he sees any threat to his staying in power, he'll do whatever he has to do. But this crosses the line. This crosses the line.</s>DEAN: So Vice President Biden will be taking the stage along with many other of the presidential candidates here in Iowa. We'll see if he talks more about this. But, Martin, certainly this is the story that is driving the day here, and we expect to hear much more about it. The vice president just starting to talk about this. Martin?</s>SAVIDGE: Jessica Dean in Iowa, for us, thank you very much for that. Now let's bring in Jeremy Diamond. He's at the White House. And Jeremy, what is the president saying, or maybe I should say tweeting about all of this?</s>JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Martin, what we're seeing is the president once again turning this into a new political attack line, once again painting himself the target of partisans, of Democrats, who are trying to undermine his presidency, just as he did, of course, with the investigation led by Special Counsel Robert Mueller. And just as he called that investigation the Russia witch hunt, he is now referring to this whistleblower complaint and everything that has stemmed from that as the Ukraine witch hunt. But at the same time, the president is not disclosing much about his conversation with the Ukrainian president. He has so far declined to say whether or not he did indeed, as reporting indicates, bring up Joe Biden in his conversation with the Ukrainian president this past summer. He is referring to the whistleblower now as a partisan, as a political hack job, even though he says that he does not know the identity of this whistleblower. But, Martin, all of this is surely not going away. Congress is continuing to demand transcripts of this call, as you just saw the former vice president Joe Biden also doing so. And this coming week the president will be bringing this story back to the fore once again as he sits on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly with the Ukrainian president. Martin?</s>SAVIDGE: There is no doubt this story is not going away. Jeremy Diamond, Jessica Dean, thank you both very much. Now to talk about this further, let's bring in Brett Bruen. He is a former director of Global Engagement at the White House under President Obama. And it's good to see you.</s>BRETT BRUEN, PRESIDENT, THE GLOBAL SITUATION ROOM: Good to be with you.</s>SAVIDGE: So CNN is reporting that Trump asked the Ukrainian president to look into the Bidens and their connections to the Ukrainian prime minister. Do you take this as kind of a normal line of questioning?</s>BRUEN: It's absolutely not normal. I would say it is bordering on unethical if not illegal. And what was surprising to me, and we've become accustomed in the last two-and-a half years to cringeworthy, moments of perhaps national embarrassment or the erosion of American credibility, but this goes farther. This is about more than Donald Trump's ego. It is an egregious violation of the rules of diplomacy, how heads of state interact with one another. The fact that he brought this personal political issue up eight times, allegedly, with the Ukrainian president would cross several lines.</s>SAVIDGE: And, as you've already heard, Joe Biden is calling for a full investigation into the president's call. Based on what you know and what you've seen, what is the proper way to sort of respond to what the president appears to have done here?</s>BRUEN: Well, let me first say how unusual it would be for a member of the intelligence community or the national security staff to file a whistleblower complaint. Those are jobs of incredible trust. And you know you won't be allowed back into the Oval Office or into those meetings if you take that action. So you have to believe this is really meriting that sort of step. And clearly, this individual felt that it was and that they needed to sound the alarm bell. I also would just add that I have spoken to a number of friends who have served in the Trump administration's National Security Council. They have become alarmed by how the president treats these conversations with heads of state as times to address his personal insecurities, not the nation's security.</s>SAVIDGE: So, again, how do you think the follow up should be on this? Impeachment, prosecution? How do you move forward on the president?</s>BRUEN: First and foremost, the White House needs to release the transcript. They need to release it to Congress. If there is classified information in it, it should be redacted. But we need to know what was said. And we need to know if there are other instances in which the president has pressured foreign leaders inappropriately or illegally. These conversations directly impact the national security of the United States. They are to be overseen by the Congress, and the Congress has the right to that information.</s>SAVIDGE: And as I think Jeremy Diamond alluded to, President Trump is expected to meet the Ukrainian president next week, I think it's Wednesday, during the General Assembly. What do you expect to come of that, and what are the optics of it?</s>BRUEN: Well, we've clearly seen Trump's difficult relationship, both with Ukraine and with Russia. The U.S. had put aid to Ukraine on hold for a period of time. I think they've got to work past what has been a handicap for this administration when it comes to a strong line on Russian intervention in Ukraine. Let's remember that Russian troops still occupy parts of Luhansk, Donetsk, and Crimea in eastern Ukraine. That's top of mind for the Ukrainians.</s>SAVIDGE: Of course, yes. Good points for the public to understand. Brett Bruen, thanks very much. Good to have you on the show.</s>BRUEN: Thank you.</s>SAVIDGE: President Trump is again insisting today that reporters should dig into a conspiracy theory involving Biden, Ukraine, and a Ukrainian prosecutor. Joining me now, CNN reporter Daniel Dale. And Dale, Democrats are accusing Trump of wrongdoing. He is pointing a finger back at Biden. So let's dig into these unproven claims that the president is making about Biden. What's the story and the facts as we know them?</s>DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: Sure. So what we know for sure is that in 2016 Joe Biden, then the vice president, pushed Ukrainian leaders to get rid of a senior prosecutor who was widely seen as ineffective in fighting corruption. It's important to know that this was not a personal Joe Biden crusade. This was the position of the United States government, of the International Monetary Fund and other U.S. allies. All of them agreed that this prosecutor needed to go. The Ukrainians eventually agreed after Biden threatened them to withhold $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, and the parliament overwhelmingly voted to get rid of the prosecutor. The reason there are some questions about this is that at the same time as Biden was making this push to oust the prosecutor, his son Hunter Biden was sitting on the board of directors of a Ukrainian natural gas company owned by someone who is theoretically under investigation by the prosecutor. I say theoretically because that's important. We don't know to what extent even the company was under investigation. "Bloomberg" has reported that it has been told the investigation was essentially dormant at the time that Biden made this push. Regardless, Trump has insinuated that Hunter Biden himself, the vice president's son, was personally under investigation, and we have no evidence for that in particular.</s>SAVIDGE: So what has Biden said about his involvement in Ukraine? And does the story check out?</s>DALE: Well, Biden has boasted about his effort to oust the prosecutor. He's openly told the story as an example of his efforts to fight corruption in Ukraine. Everything he said about it is true as far as we know. Now, the way he's told the story, he hasn't even hinted at the possibility there might be some wrongdoing. This allegation has come from conservatives, from the Trump side. After they began making an allegation and Biden reacted angrily. He said everyone who has looked into this has found no evidence that there was anything improper whatsoever.</s>SAVIDGE: And what are the Ukrainians saying about all of this? They are obviously caught in a very awkward spot.</s>DALE: Yes, well, they haven't said very much. There have been reports that the successor to this prosecutor has made clear that Hunter Biden has not himself been under investigation and that there's no evidence of wrongdoing by either Biden, but they're caught between a rock and a hard place. They don't want to anger a potential president in Biden. They also don't want to anger the current president in Trump. So they haven't said very much at all.</s>SAVIDGE: Right. And of course, this is going to be that meeting we anticipate between both presidents in New York this week. Daniel Dale, thank you very much for sort of clearing things up for us. Still to come, the 2020 Democrats, they're going all in, in Iowa. And one is making an urgent plea for support.