Arming the Opposition in Libya?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Breaking news -- good evening, everyone -- on Libya and a possible escalation in America's military involvement. After a day of seeing Libyan opposition fighters outgunned and retreating, beaten back from places they only retook days ago, tonight, the Obama administration says it's open to the possibility of sending them weapons. These are pictures of fighters pulling back from the outskirts of Bin Jawad after coming under heavy fire from Gadhafi's forces. Without either more intensive NATO attacks on Gadhafi forces or better-armed and better-trained opposition fighters, it is hard to see how the opposition can defeat Gadhafi's army. Earlier today in London, Secretary of State Clinton said that arming the opposition is legal under the U.N. resolution authorizing force in Libya. And here's what President Obama told NBC's Brian Williams this evening.</s>BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not ruling it out, but I'm also not ruling it in. We're still making an assessment partly about what Gadhafi's forces are -- are going to be doing.</s>COOPER: There's the question, though, of exactly who we would be arming if the President chose to do that. The President tonight acknowledging there might be opposition elements unfriendly to America, but saying the people the U.S. has met with have been fully vetted and the U.S. has a clear sense of who they are. Secretary Clinton, however, didn't seem quite so sure, saying that the United States is still getting to know the people on the transnational council in Benghazi and said -- quote -- "We do not have any specific information about specific individuals." Joining us now to talk about what arming the opposition would entail, as well as the pros and cons of doing it, former Bush administration National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and retired Army Major General James "Spider" Marks. Mr. Hadley, what do you think? Is it a good idea?</s>STEPHEN HADLEY, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think he's got to consider it. The problem the President has, he has a gap between what he said he wants to do to get rid of Gadhafi and what the no-fly zone authorizes him to do, which is use military force to protect civilians. And he's got to close that gap. And he's trying to do it by strengthening the opposition, by splitting Gadhafi's military away from him, by promising to help build a new Libya. I think he's also got to do it in terms of -- of strengthening the opposition by giving them arms, so they can impose their own anti-tank and -- and anti-air zone. And really I think this is going to be decided by the Libyan people, whether they see this as an opportunity to get rid of this dictator and whether they will rise up in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands and try to sweep this man away. So he's -- he's got to close that gap. And I think this is one of the measures he can use to do that.</s>COOPER: General Marks, this is not really an organized opposition force. There's only said to be about 1,000 fighters who have some level of military training. And as we know, the Libyan military that was stationed in the east, in Benghazi, was not the cream of the crop. Is arming these folks the right thing to do?</s>BRIGADIER GENERAL JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, Anderson, I think it must be done and in essence, we've already done it through the coalition and the application of close-air support to beat Gadhafi's forces down a little bit. And clearly more is needed. But I think more importantly, but there's no time for it, is training is required in advance of weapons. Short of being able to train this -- this band of rebels, weapons is a choice. And as Mr. Hadley indicated, it's necessary for this -- for the rebels to achieve any greater success and not achieve some stalemate, which everybody has decided is unacceptable. And I think we would all agree that a partitioned Libya is not what we're looking for as an end state.</s>COOPER: General Marks, though, I mean, from a -- from a military standpoint, arming folks who, you know, have just been handed a weapon for the first time and giving them an RPG, is that -- I mean, is that a practical? Is it -- is it that easy to use?</s>MARKS: Well, the notion of the gang that couldn't shoot straight might be lived out. Absolutely, there must be some degree of training that is associated with arming this force. However, some weapons systems clearly they can get a handle on and they can use immediately. It's the more lethal weapons systems that would require training and I don't think there's time to do that. And clearly we have a checkered past in terms of those that we have armed before and having to face those weapons systems in battle in the future. So, clearly, there are a number of decisions that need to be made.</s>COOPER: Stephen Hadley, you know, the biggest argument against arming the opposition forces is that the U.S. isn't really sure exactly who they're arming, that there may be anti-American elements among them, which President Obama acknowledged, though he said he felt that the vast majority of the folks that they have met with are lawyers and doctors and people who have the right interests at heart. I just want to show our viewers some of what President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton said earlier today.</s>OBAMA: First of all, I think it's important to note that the people that we have met with have been fully vetted. So we have a clear sense of who they are. And so far they're saying the right things and most of them are professionals, lawyers, doctors, people who appear to be credible.</s>HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We do not have any specific information about specific individuals from any organization who are part of this. But, of course, we're still getting to know those who are leading the trans -- the transitional national council and that will be a process that continues.</s>COOPER: Seems to be slightly contradictory statements there from the President and the Secretary of State. So, again, I mean, I -- that is part of the problem in terms of, who do you arm and where do those arms potentially end up?</s>HADLEY: It certainly is a part of the problem. But, you know, you never really know in these revolutionary situations who you're dealing with initially. And so you take it step by step. You get to know some people. You do the vetting. And you're careful as to who you give the weapons to. But I think, you know, the bottom line is, no-fly zones do not get you regime change on the cheap. In the end of the day, and I think General Marks will confirm this, somebody has got to be on the ground doing the hard work of taking the territory. And if it's not going to be U.S. troops and nobody really wants that, then we're going to have to deal with the Libyan people and try to empower them to fight and win their own freedom. And giving them weapons has to be part of that.</s>COOPER: General Marks, what do you make of the fact that the opposition has already lost territory that they just retook a day or two ago? And they were really only able to retake that, according to our correspondents on the ground, because as you said of the close-air support from NATO, from coalition forces and the fact that Libyan troops basically just ceded the ground. Now they -- they've already today been beaten back -- we're going to talk to our correspondents on the ground there in a moment -- but they're back at Ras Lanuf, which they had moved through quickly just yesterday.</s>MARKS: Well, clearly, the use of the airpower from the coalition is the key ingredient, the deciding factor for the rebels. We shouldn't be surprised at all. And in fact, there might even be an argument that some of those key locations are key only to the rebels for some reason that defies my definition of military importance. They could bypass those and maybe achieve success and rout Tripoli. And also, Anderson, I have to smile. I've got this image of arming lawyers and doctors, when truly what we need to have is a definition of who are those non-commissioned officers, who are the guys that are really going to be doing the fighting? What are their capabilities? And we really don't have a clue.</s>COOPER: Yes, a lot of conflicting reports. General Marks, I appreciate your time tonight, Stephen Hadley as well. Let us know what you think. We're on Facebook. Follow me on Twitter @AndersonCooper. I will also try to be tweeting tonight. Up next, Arwa Damon and Nic Robertson with late word on the shift in momentum from the opposition back to the Gadhafi regime. We've seen that just really in the last 24 hours, how opposition forces are trying to keep a retreat from turning into a rout. Later, Eman's story: what happened after this woman went before cameras accusing Gadhafi forces of raping her brutally? The regime says she is back home with her family. We found out otherwise, though that's not all we uncovered. What her family told us about what Gadhafi's henchmen offered them for spinning the story their way; keeping the regime honest tonight.