The Decline of Rush Limbaugh
STELTER: Who is the king of conservative media? I would say it's that man over my shoulder right there, radio host Rush Limbaugh. But a new article in "Politico" magazine says Limbaugh's radio power may be waning. Almost no one has thought of this, but Limbaugh's contract is about to expire, less than two months from now actually. His current deal, a landmark eight-year commitment, was valued at $400 million. But times have changed since there. And here's what writer Ethan Epstein wrote for "Politico" magazine. He said: "In recent years, Limbaugh has been dropped by several of his longtime affiliates, including some very powerful ones, like WABC in New York, WRKO in Boston and KFI in Los Angeles, for example. In many cases, Limbaugh has been moved onto smaller stations with weaker signals." So what's going on here? Shouldn't Rush be benefiting more from the rise of Trump? Let's ask Ethan. He joins me now from D.C. He's an associate editor with "The Weekly Standard" and a contributor to "Politico" magazine. Ethan, when you were writing about this, did it surprise you that Trump hasn't really had more of a ripple effect for Rush, that Rush Limbaugh hasn't benefited more from this incredible moment in conservative politics?</s>ETHAN EPSTEIN, POLITICO: I think, in a way, he has. Talk radio has actually seen a ratings boost, thanks to the Trump -- they're actually calling it a Trump bump among radio insiders.</s>STELTER: The same ratings bump that television has seen, radio has seen as well, you're saying?</s>EPSTEIN: Exactly. But I think what differentiates Limbaugh's case from places like CNN, I hope at least, for CNN's sake, is that Limbaugh hasn't been able to monetize it in the way television has, because his main problem is an advertiser boycott, which really -- no matter how many listeners he has, the advertiser boycott is still hurting him.</s>STELTER: And that's why I thought your article was so interesting. Why is this happening? Two words. Sandra Fluke. People might remember this case from four years ago. Let me put on screen what you wrote about this situation. You say that: "Four years after Limbaugh called Georgetown law student Sandra Fluke a slut on the air, spurring a major boycott movement, reams of advertisers still won't touch him." This is a rare sort of ad boycott that's actually had a long-term effect.</s>EPSTEIN: That's exactly right, Brian. Four years ago is an eternity in the media universe. I'm sure most people haven't even thought of the name Sandra Fluke.</s>STELTER: Honestly, I had forgotten about the case entirely. Yes.</s>EPSTEIN: That's exactly right. And I think you're not alone in that. But what is amazing is that, after all of those companies came out and announced they were going to boycott Limbaugh's show, they stuck by it. They never came back for the most part. And that has had a seriously deleterious effect on his business. What is also important to remember is that Limbaugh, as you mentioned, too, at top of the segment, had a guaranteed contract. He had an eight- year contract. So, you know, every advertiser could leave him. And he was still going to get $38 million to $50 million a year. What makes now different is that the contract is about to expire. And he needs to renegotiate it. So, this is where his personal finances could be on the line.</s>STELTER: You reached out Rush. You reached out to Premiere Networks, his syndicator. You didn't hear anything back from them about what's going to happen to his contract in the future?</s>EPSTEIN: I didn't. And I also talked to a lot of people that are involved in talk radio in writing this piece. They all think that Premiere does want to resign him. He's still the marquee name in talk radio.</s>STELTER: He's not going away, right? Rush Limbaugh is not going away.</s>EPSTEIN: No. He's going to be talking somewhere. The question is how people are going to listen to him. And Premiere, all things being equal, would prefer to keep him. But the fact is, they simply will not be able to afford the same amount of -- the same salary that they gave him this time around. If he stays with Premiere, he is going to get a pay cut.</s>STELTER: Does that say something about conservative talk radio more broadly, that the medium is not as strong as it used to be?</s>EPSTEIN: I think there's some truth to that. And part of that as well is the case of -- the effects of Sandra Fluke, because the advertiser boycott ended up affecting basically all of talk radio. What a lot of companies did, take J.C. Penney, for example. They loudly announced they were no longer going to sponsor the news and traffic updates during the Limbaugh show. But not only did they do that. They pulled their advertising from all talk radio just to be on the safe side. In that way, what Limbaugh did really hurt all of his colleagues. And that actually includes liberal hosts as well. The whole news talk format became a no-buy zone for al to of companies.</s>STELTER: I feel like when I hear about advertiser boycotts, I usually roll my eyes, because I don't think they are going to have an impact, but in this case, it actually did. And the fact that you're saying it actually has affected other shows as well is really interesting. Before I let you go, you mentioned in your story that Trump has not been endorsed by Rush Limbaugh, nor has he been attacked by Rush Limbaugh. Right? So, Rush has taken this sort of middle approach of not going all the way in for Trump. Is that right?</s>EPSTEIN: That's right. I think now that the primaries have wrapped up, you know, he will be pulling for Trump, particularly against his hated Hillary Clinton. In the primaries, he was agnostic. And I think that actually spoke to his business sense. He knew that about half his audience loved Trump. He knew about half hated it, so he kind of went down the middle.</s>STELTER: He is a smart businessman, but it does seem like the ground has shifted underneath him. And we will see what he does in July when his contract is up. Ethan, thank you so much for being here.</s>EPSTEIN: Thanks so much.</s>STELTER: Up next here on the program, does Peter Thiel's bankrolling of lawsuits against Gawker pose a challenge to other news outlets too? My thoughts right after the break.