How Paul Ryan Captured The GOP
O'BRIEN: All right. I like that. This is Ryan's playlist, Animal Collective, "My Girls." We were talking this morning about Ryan's new article. It's all Ryan this morning. It's all about Ryan. "The New Yorker" article is called "Fuss Budget." It's about Paul Ryan's rise in the GOP. Fascinating to learn about his childhood, which I think really was the core development of his ideology.</s>LIZZA: I think so. You always have to be careful when you're writing about a public figure being too much of a psychiatrist, putting someone on the couch. I mean, you can't, you know, you can't truly know everything about someone. But, his father died when he was relatively young, when he was in high school. And Paul Ryan was the person who actually found his body at his home in Janesville, Wisconsin. And as he explained it to me, he sort of went through -- he didn't use this word, but not quite existential crisis but a real search for, you know, what his life was all about.</s>O'BRIEN: Started reading Ayn Rand, started looking to his teachers to get literature that would talk about sort of the framing of the government and individualism versus collectivism.</s>LIZZA: And it's very rare when you write about politician where you can really see that kind of early intellectual development, the authors they're getting into, the political philosophy they're getting into, and see a sort of straight line from that to their public policies. And with this guy, the straight line is right there.</s>O'BRIEN: Social Security for him, which was back in 2005, 2006, was a disaster.</s>LIZZA: Yes. And I wrote extensively about that first big bite at public policy he took on. Social Security privatization, Social Security reform in the Bush era, because it was not successful for the Republican Party. And even George W. Bush in his memoir writes that he regrets pursuing it in 2005, and Paul Ryan, the person we're talking about, was the leading member in the House pushing it. He told some of your colleagues at the time, don't worry. This isn't the third realm of American politics anymore.</s>O'BRIEN: It was.</s>LIZZA: And it was. And so, the reason I went through that whole history is because, well, he's back now with much bolder, much more ambitious plans, and he's convinced congresswoman, you and all of your Republican colleagues to walk off the plank and vote for what Democrats think is a very controversial agenda.</s>HAYWORTH: Well, it's a very compassionate budget actually.</s>LIZZA: I want to hear your response to this. But so, at the time when Ryan put his budget out first in 2008 and then he's modified it a little bit in recent years, a lot of Republican pollsters are saying don't vote from this, stay away from this. And Boehner, the Republican minority leader at the time, made sure that Republicans in the House of Representatives did not embrace it in 2010.</s>HAYWORTH: I did.</s>LIZZA: You did?</s>HAYWORTH: Yes.</s>LIZZA: And you ran on it?</s>HAYWORTH: I did.</s>LIZZA: Yes. And you won?</s>HAYWORTH: Yes.</s>LIZZA: And so, then Paul Ryan gets --</s>HAYWORTH: In a challenger race.</s>LIZZA: In a challenger race. And so, this is a success story.</s>O'BRIEN: So new crop comes in.</s>LIZZA: New crop comes in after 2002, including yourself.</s>HAYWORTH: Yes.</s>O'BRIEN: He just brought some through your interview differently. I mean, he talks about these are the kinds of politicians who are not --</s>LIZZA: And I think we have an example of one sitting right here.</s>O'BRIEN: Citizen legislator.</s>LIZZA: One of my favorite quotes in the piece is -- this is a paraphrase, you know, these aren't career politicians, these are D.A.s and doctors and they're not here for careers, they're here for causes. And they helped him pass in 2011 what, just a few years before, was a budget that no Republican wanted to touch.</s>O'BRIEN: In your article, you also, though, talked about some of the contradictions. You go to --</s>LIZZA: Janesville. Janesville.</s>O'BRIEN: -- Janesville --</s>LIZZA: Yes.</s>O'BRIEN: -- which is in his district, and as much as he is -- again, I mean, his budget to some degree would remove a lot of things that have made Janesville come back, right?</s>LIZZA: Well, I was surprised by this.</s>O'BRIEN: And there's government that has resources that has gone into making Janesville great.</s>LIZZA: Yes. I was surprised. You go to Janesville. It's a former auto town. The big GM plant closed a few years ago. And, I get a tour by a very pro-Paul Ryan Republican. He shows me -- he tells me about three big success stories. One is medical company that is there only because they got a federal research grant. Two is a medium-sized businesses whose only interest in Janesville is as a distribution hub. And so, their big issue is federal transportation dollars.</s>O'BRIEN: Good highways.</s>LIZZA: They want good highways. And then third, he shows me this new incubator where entrepreneurs can come and help start their businesses. And I said, how did you get the money for that? He goes, well, it was from a federal grant.</s>O'BRIEN: Stimulus.</s>LIZZA: -- stimulus. So, I couldn't help as a journalist see some irony in that. But, you know, I asked Ryan --</s>HAYWORTH: Maybe I can help you with that.</s>LIZZA: I asked Ryan about that, and he said, look, you know, -- I don't know if you have it there. We're not against all government. And, these are very reasonable federal policies.</s>O'BRIEN: This is an article in "The New Yorker." It's called how Paul Ryan captured the GOP. It's a fascinating article. It was a great insight into him, I thought.</s>LIZZA: Thanks. Thanks very much.</s>O'BRIEN: All right. We got to take a break. We're back in just a moment.