Interview with the Deputy Assistant to the President, Sebastian Gorka.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. A lot happening tonight, including exclusive new video only on CNN of Donald Trump long before he decided to run for president with the father and son and music promoter who later brokered the now infamous meeting with a Russian attorney and Donald Trump Jr. We'll have more in that shortly. The president is heading to Paris, dogged by his son's email mess. His mood said to be one of frustration and fury, at times defiance. Two administration officials telling us that Mr. Trump has spent the last few days hunkered down in the Oval Office, huddled with top advisers and watching a lot of television news coverage. That is now when he's not on Twitter denying that he's doing just that. Quote: The White House is functioning perfectly, focused on health care, tax cut reform and many other things. I have very little time for watching TV. He certainly watched Donald Trump, Jr. on FOX and was up early this morning tweeting about it. Quote: My son Donald did a good job last night. He was open, transparent and innocent. This is the greatest witch hunt in political history. Sad. As for not watching TV, well, in the very next tweet, he takes aim at the coverage that he's not watching. Quote: Remember when you hear the word sources say from the fake media, oftentimes those sources are made up and do not exist. Well, keep it honest. It would, of course, be better for reporters if every source to every story agreed to go on the record name and all. The interesting thing is that it didn't seem to bother candidate Trump who frequently quoted anonymously sourced stories that benefitted him. In any case, in the Donald Trump Jr. e-mail story, the sourcing "The New York Times" had has all been confirmed by the very e-mails that Donald Trump, Jr. finally released under pressure from "The New York Times." And now, he's talked about that meeting on television.</s>DONALD TRUMP, JR., SON OF PRESIDENT TRUMP: In retrospect, I probably would have done things a little differently. Again, this is before the Russia mania. This is before they were building it up in the press. For me, this was opposition research. They had something, maybe concrete evidence to all the stories I'd been hearing about but they were probably under-reported for, you know, years, not just during the campaign. So, I think I wanted to hear it out. But really, it went nowhere and it was apparent that wasn't what the meeting was actually about.</s>COOPER: So, for all the claims of phony unnamed sources, "The New York Times" reporting has been spot on. As for that other tweet claiming a witch hunt, we take you now to today apartments Senate confirmation hearings from the president's own pick to head the FBI.</s>SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: In light of the don junior e-mail and other allegations that this whole thing about Trump campaign and Russia is a witch hunt, is that a fair description of what we're all dealing with in America?</s>CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR NOMINEE: Well, Senator, I can't speak to the basis for those comments. I can tell you that my experience with Director Mueller --</s>GRAHAM: I'm asking you as the future FBI director, you consider this endeavor a witch hunt?</s>WRAY: I do not consider Director --</s>COOPER: He said he did not consider a witch hunt. The important thing to remember about witch hunts is that nothing ever comes of them. You never actually see a witch. Whatever you call the last several months, we've seen new significant developments every week, sometimes several days a week, which may explain why the White House is under so much pressure, which is where we begin tonight -- with CNN's Dana Bash, who joins us now with that, as well as what the president said in a new interview about his son's meeting with that Russian lawyer and his latest thoughts on whether Russia hacked the election. Dana, what are you hearing?</s>DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what I'm hearing, Anderson is probably best encapsulated by a source who speaks with the president frequently who says that you have to remember that everything should be viewed as the president receiving anything, any bit of news with the word Russia in it through one prism, and that is the fact that he considers that an attempt to delegitimize his election to the White House. And, so, knowing that that is the context through which he receives information about anything, even and including information that is in black and white, showing that his son was eager to take a meeting from somebody who said that they had information from the Russian government. So, this is kind of gives you a window into the thinking of the president. And it also explains what he actually said in public to "Reuters", giving as you said, a new interview today, saying that he only learned, first of all, about the meeting a few days ago. But that he didn't fault his son for taking the meeting, saying, quote, many people would have held that meeting. Now, you played one sound bite from his own FBI director nominee. At another point, the nominee, Christopher Wray, said that he explicitly would suggest anyone getting a solicitation for opposition research from a Russian national should call the FBI. So, his own nominee to head the FBI disagrees with him. But, look, there's no question just in terms of the atmospherics that this has had a very big impact on the sort of vibe inside the White House. One source told our colleagues that it was paralyzed. I spoke to a source tonight who said that that is diminishing a little bit as the time has gone on, particularly since they are kind of breathing a sigh of relief that they are hoping to change the subject by the president lifting off to go to Paris to have a very important bilateral meeting and they hope that that is going to be a way for them to change the subject. But other times, they've tried to change the subject, other shoes have dropped. They're hoping that doesn't happen this time.</s>COOPER: You know, Sarah Huckabee Sanders was asked about this notion of a White House under political siege multiple times today. And I want to play a bit of what she said.</s>SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: You know, the president wants to be focused on his agenda and he'd much rather be talking about health care, tax reform, infrastructure, national security. I think that that's his focus and when he's talking about those things, that's a good day for all Americans.</s>COOPER: How does that push back square with the optics coming out of the West Wing?</s>BASH: Well, first of all, it's sort of -- there's a little bit of irony that not only do we not see Sarah Huckabee Sanders or anybody who does press conferences, at least sort of feeds into the bunker mentality when it actually sounds like they're in a bunker. But I think at the end of the day, you asked about optics. I talk to people inside the White House, and the reality is that they don't really care about optics. If they did, then they would be approaching this in a very different way and it doesn't really square with the notion of a president who is all about perception. As you said, despite tweeting he doesn't watch TV, he does watch TV. He understands it. But they, A, didn't go very well when they had a series of on-camera briefings from their perspective at the beginning of the administration. And, B, don't really want to answer the questions right now, don't want to feed the notion that reporters who are in the White House briefing room have, you know, sort of legitimate questions to be answered. Also, the other thing I will say is that members of the White House say that they do go on television. They do answer questions in other ways, maybe not for the White House press core. And the last thing to remember is Twitter. The fact is that Donald Trump believes that the best messenger is himself, that's why he refuses to stop tweeting and that he can get his message out directly to his 30-plus million followers and he doesn't need to do it through the traditional means of a White House briefing.</s>COOPER: Yes. Dana, thanks very much. We're very pleased we have somebody from the White House on the broadcast tonight. Deputy assistant to the president, Sebastian Gorka, joins us now. Mr. Gorka, thanks very much for being with us. I want to ask you about a number of things. The president's trip to France is very important, also the victory in Iraq and Mosul. I do want to start off with what Dana and others are reporting. The president has had four days now without an event on his public schedule. You heard the reporting that there is a bunker mode in parts of the White House since the news of Donald Trump Jr. broke. I want you to be able to comment on that.</s>SEBASTIAN GORKA, DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: Oh, absolutely. It's laughable. Your Chyron talked about a crisis. Your reporter talked about a bunker mentality. I actually work in the West Wing. I work in the White House. It is absolutely nothing of the kind. We are pushing the make America great again agenda. The president is a steam locomotive that will not be stopped. It's just fake news. I'm sad to see CNN fall to this. I know you want salacious, sensational coverage for your ratings, so your corporate sponsors and owners will have, you know, more money. But that's not media. That's not reportage. It's just fake news.</s>COOPER: OK. I'm just going to ignore the insults, because I don't think it really gets us anywhere. Again --</s>GORKA: It's not about you, but having journalism back on TV. Where are the Walter Cronkites of yesteryear? This is just about ratings and money. It's a bit -- it's actually quite sad.</s>COOPER: So, the president tweeted today, when you hear the words, sources say from the fake media, often times those sources are made up and do not exist. I'm wondering how the president can actually make that claim when all the reporting about "The New York Times" and the meeting his son held with the Russian attorney had been proven by his son's own e-mails, which he only released after "The Times" is going to publish the contents of it?</s>GORKA: Is that the same way that all the unnamed sources said that Director Comey, including CNN, was going to completely gainsay everything the president said about their meeting 24 hours before his testimony in which</s>CNN -- COOPER: That was a reporting that was wrong, and we corrected ourselves, unless the White House which has never corrected itself on anything. But I'm giving you an opportunity right now to correct what the president said this morning, because what he's alleging is that the reporting is fake, and in fact, his son's own e-mail chain shows that it's accurate. Do you deny that?</s>GORKA: No. I deny the fact that there's anything here that's untoward. This is, again, this is an obsession --</s>COOPER: Ok, but you do not deny -- you do not deny that all the sourcings for "The New York Times" was correct on this story and the president is wrong when he's saying the anonymous source saying is fake news?</s>GORKA: Oh, I stand by what the president said and I stand by what his son said. We are incredibly impressed by Don Jr.'s transparency and the fact that he published these e-mails and said he will cooperate with anybody.</s>COOPER: But let's be honest here, though. He only published these emails because "The New York Times" got the emails and was going to publish them, and then he smartly got ahead of it, and the only reason that this story has lasted so long is because he wasn't transparent from the beginning. Even Trey Gowdy today has said, and I quote, if you had a contact with Russia, tell the special counsel about it. Don't wait for "The New York Times" to figure it out. Why not be out front and transparent on Saturday when he was first approached?</s>GORKA: The story only has legs because the fake news industrial complex is obsessed. Nine months of accusations with zero, zero evidence of anything illegal. On the contrary, the DNC sends its operative onto the soil of a foreign nation, to the embassy of the Ukraine, not to collect dirt, but to actually use it in a coordinated campaign with a foreign government. That's what CNN should be covering. But why aren't you?</s>COOPER: OK. Well, two things on that. First of all, you're avoiding answering the question about Donald Trump's lack of transparency from the beginning.</s>GORKA: Total transparency.</s>COOPER: So with him saying that this meeting was about adoption issues, about his concerns for orphans?</s>GORKA: It was -- it was absolutely misrepresented. The individual who requested the meeting --</s>COOPER: That's what he said the meeting was about on Saturday when he knew all along by Saturday that's not what the meeting was about. So, that's not being transparent, right?</s>GORKA: When he gave as much information as was necessary to be put out there after the --</s>COOPER: It wasn't correct information.</s>GORKA: It was. Absolutely.</s>COOPER: This meeting was about adoption, about orphans?</s>GORKA: All of it was true. All of it was true.</s>COOPER: This meeting was about adoption?</s>GORKA: Did somebody wanted to provide negative information that at the end of the meeting --</s>COOPER: He didn't say that.</s>GORKA: -- it was under false pretenses. That ended up being about --</s>COOPER: He didn't say that.</s>GORKA: -- about adoption. And that -- do you really want to talk -- I thought we were going to talk about real issues, like what we're doing with our allies in France.</s>COOPER: I am going to ask you, but you're not being honest. You're not being up front.</s>GORKA: Anderson, how many minutes are we in?</s>COOPER: Are you a TV producer now? You're concerned about how minutes --</s>GORKA: You're falling into the fake news trap again. And this is sad, Anderson.</s>COOPER: OK. I mean, you're like shining -- it looks like you're shaking shiny objects trying to divert people, but I don't think viewers are really that --</s>GORKA: You know why the president's description of a witch hunt is accurate? Because there never were witches and there never was any collusion. It's bogus. The DNC --</s>COOPER: You're claiming that Donald Trump, Jr. was transparent from the get-go?</s>GORKA: Donald Trump, Jr. is transparent, absolutely.</s>COOPER: He didn't just release his e-mails --</s>GORKA: Anderson, you're like a broken record.</s>COOPER: No, because I'm not getting any answers from you.</s>GORKA: I'm answering you every time.</s>COOPER: No, you're responding. You're actually not answering because you're not actually being out front.</s>GORKA: Let's let the viewers judge who decided that you're now the 13th place in national ratings, behind Nick at Nite which is at 11th.</s>COOPER: You used that line on Monday.</s>GORKA: Yes.</s>COOPER: And, you know, it was sort of mildly amusing on Monday --</s>GORKA: Yes. Tucker Carlson got 4 million viewers. You barely scratched 200,000.</s>COOPER: But I think it's funny that you have enough time at the White House, which is apparently you're so busy, you're able to sit around and read Nielsen numbers.</s>GORKA: No, I got a really good prep from my team because the White House press team is superb.</s>COOPER: OK.</s>GORKA: I don't deal with this stuff, because I do have a day job.</s>COOPER: So, last night, Donald Trump, Jr. said two contradictory things. First, he said people were trying to reach out all the time during the campaign with things like this, information like this, which many surrogates have said that this happens all the time. And then he also said that no one else at any time during the campaign reached out saying they had information about Hillary Clinton. So which is it? Did it happen all the time or did it never happen?</s>GORKA: I will return to what the president and Donald Trump, Jr., and also Jay Sekulow said, that in the heat of the campaign, he took a meeting as a favor to an acquaintance. That meeting was sold to him on false pretenses. And as soon as he was clear that was the case, it ended. That's --</s>COOPER: Right. But I -- the surrogates are saying it happened all the time. He said it happened all the time, but then he also said this is the only time it happened. I'm just trying to get a straight answer.</s>GORKA: You'd have to ask him. I didn't run his day planner.</s>COOPER: OK. Fair enough. Lindsey Graham asked Chris Wray, the president's nominee for FBI director whether it was appropriate for Donald Trump, Jr. to take the meeting and if he should alerted the FBI. Listen. This is what he said. I just want to play it for our viewers.</s>SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Let me ask you this: If I got a call from somebody saying the Russian government wants to help Lindsey Graham get reelected, they've got dirt on Lindsey Graham's opponent, should I take that meeting?</s>CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR NOMINEE: Well, Senator, I would think you'd want to consult with some good legal advisors before you did that.</s>GRAHAM: So, the answer is, should I call the FBI?</s>WRAY: I think it would be wise to let the FBI know --</s>GRAHAM: You're going to be the director of the FBI, pal. So, here's what I want you to tell every politician. If you get a call from somebody suggesting that a foreign government wants to help you by disparaging your opponent, tell us all to call the</s>FBI. WRAY: To the members of this committee, any threat or effort to interfere with our elections from any nation state, or any non-state actor, is the kind of thing the FBI would want to know.</s>COOPER: So, I'm just wondering -- do you believe the president's nominee to lead the FBI is wrong about that or is right, that this is something that Donald Trump, Jr. should have called the FBI about? And as to your claim about, you know, Ukraine involvement with the DNC, which they deny if that happened --</s>GORKA: No, it happened.</s>COOPER: -- that they should call, they should have called the FBI about it?</s>GORKA: No, they actually initiated it. The DNC initiated it. That's the real story, when you go to another government to coordinate</s>COOPER: Right. I mean --</s>GORKA: -- dirt on a political campaign. This isn't something we started.</s>COOPER: I know. We reported --</s>GORKA: There's a massive difference. You do know the difference, right? When you initiate it?</s>COOPER: Yes, I understand the word, initiate.</s>GORKA: Good.</s>COOPER: Yes, we actually reported on this. "Politico" wrote the article I believe back in January, I'll put it on the screen, so did CNN. The difference is, there is not, as far as we know, an active FBI investigation of any Ukraine involvement, and frankly, if there was, I think it would be a much bigger story and I would love to report on it every single night. But there is an active FBI investigation into Russian involvement in this election, and any possible collusion with the campaign. So, that's why I think there's a difference in the reporting.</s>GORKA: But then why haven't you dedicated 10 minutes or another segment, which is meant to be about international relations on that story instead of what you're doing now?</s>COOPER: Well, what I need to do right now is take a commercial break. But when I come back, I actually want to ask about the president's trip to France and also the victory in Mosul, if you're willing to stick around.</s>GORKA: I'd be delighted.</s>COOPER: I appreciate that. We'll be back in a moment.