UK PM seeks urgency in talks over citizens' right; Varoufakis on Brexit, Brussels and the economy; White House chief of staff speaks on Gold Star family controversy
GORANI: Well, it seems both sides in the Brexit negotiations can agree on one thing, it's all moving really slowly. EU leaders are meeting in Brussels again amid a deadlock. The German Chancellor Angela Merkel says there hasn't been in the talks so far to move on to the next phase. The British Prime Minister Theresa May says she needs other EU leaders to act urgently on the issue of citizens' rights. Bianca Nobilo is live in Brussels. She is covering developments there. So, where do we stand?</s>BIANCA NOBILO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We stand at an impasse at the moment. It's definitely a tense situation. The EU is united and this week in the UK has certainly been marked by division over Brexit. We've had prominent cabinet figures contradicting each other. Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, attacking his opposition on Brexit. Today, Theresa May arrived trying to be cautiously optimistic and she spoke to some journalists as she arrived here at the EU council building. Let's take a listen to what she had to say about her hopes for what these next two days might bring.</s>THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: This council is about taking stock. It's also about looking ahead to how we can tackle the challenges that we all share across Europe. That means, of course, continued cooperation, cooperation which is going to be at the heart of the strong future partnership that we want to build together. Of course, will also be looking at the concrete progress that has been made in our exit negotiations and looking at setting out ambitious plans for the weeks ahead. I specifically, for example, want to see an urgency in reaching an agreement on citizens' rights.</s>NOBILO: That is going to be much tougher than Theresa May just made it sound. In fact, earlier today, Hala, I asked the president of the European Parliament Antonio Tajani if he thought that sufficient progress had been made to proceed to the next stage of Brexit negotiations. He told me definitely not, that the EU has not received enough firm details from the UK to be able to make that transition to the next stage of negotiations where they can talk about today and they can talk about the future relationship. That's a sentiment that has been echoed across all of the EU figures that have been speaking out. They really stayed on message. Meanwhile, the EU is quite divided. But, right now, as I'm speaking to, Theresa May is meeting with those EU 27 leaders at a working dinner to try and encourage them to get to that next stage of Brexit negotiations. So, hopefully, we'll have the outcome of that fairly shortly. It's definitely going to be a difficult pitch to those EU 27 for the prime minister, Hala.</s>GORANI: All right. I predict a lot of working dinners in Theresa May's future. Thanks very much, Bianca Nobilo in Brussels. Well, there is another person who knows a thing or two about prickly meetings at the EU and his name is Yanis Varoufakis. He served, as you will remember, as Greece's finance minister during the height of the country's debt meltdown. And he resigned after clashing with his Brussels counterparts. But Varoufakis is still talking about the economy and the world of finance. His new book is called "Talking to My Daughter about the Economy." I started by asking him why he wanted to explain something like the economy to a 13-year-old.</s>YANIS VAROUFAKIS, FORMER MEMBER OF THE HELLENIC PARLIAMENT: An attempt to understand it myself because we economists get all embroiled in these highly mathematical models and we miss out on that which matters. It's only when you try to explain these complicated concepts to a 13-year- old that you realize to what extent you are in possession of the facts.</s>GORANI: Last time we spoke, you said the Brits will understand that they are not negotiating with the EU. They are going to spend two years negotiating on how to negotiate.</s>VAROUFAKIS: That's right. For their right to negotiate.</s>GORANI: The right to negotiate. Is that what's going on now?</s>VAROUFAKIS: Isn't it?</s>GORANI: Yes.</s>VAROUFAKIS: You can see that, firstly, the EU has made it absolutely, abundantly clear that this is what's happening. Remember, when Michel Barnier, the official negotiator of the European Union, put forward his agenda for the negotiations he said there will be two phases. In the first phase, Britain will give us everything we want. So, in fact, he arrives in these meetings with a checklist of things that Britain must give him and he just ticks boxes. He's not mandated to have -</s>GORANI: Is he holding all the cards? Because the British negotiators are saying, we don't understand, we keep making proposals and you keep sending us back, saying it's not enough.</s>VAROUFAKIS: Well, what I've been saying, and I think we discussed this last time I was here, is that the greatest nightmare for the European Union bureaucracy and the heavily-armed politicians behind them, the greatest nightmare for them is a mutually advantageous agreement with Britain because, for them, a mutually advantageous agreement with Britain would signal to other constituent countries, like Poland, Hungary, Greece, whichever, that they can trigger Article 50, they can threaten to leave the European Union and get a good deal. So, a good deal is that which Brussels is trying to destroy.</s>GORANI: So, what's going to happen? Will Brexit happen at all? There seems to be a shift in public opinion. The latest polling has more people opposed to Brexit than supporting it in this country.</s>VAROUFAKIS: It seems to me inexorable. The more progressives within the Tory government start making noises about the possibility of reversing Brexit, the more adamant the Brexiteers become. So, it's inaction, reaction. And also, there's another thing to consider. The European Union itself may not be interested in letting Britain stay even if there is a change of heart, even if there is a second referendum because, think about it, what message would that send to Poland that they can cross Brussels on questions of civil liberties, on judicial independence, on the independence of the central bank, whatever, and then they can increase their negotiating power by triggering Article 50 and then pulling back from exiting the EU within the two years.</s>GORANI: So, you're saying, which is kind of an interesting take because many people who are pro-remain in this country believe that, if the UK starts feeling the pain - we've seen inflation rise, for instance, because the currency has come down - that if Brussels makes it tough, tough, tough that they will every time send the negotiators back home, saying we are not satisfied, we are not satisfied, that maybe in this country there will be a reversal. What you're saying is possibly the EU wouldn't even potentially be interested -</s>VAROUFAKIS: Precisely. This is why - I am a remainer, by the way.</s>GORANI: Yes.</s>VAROUFAKIS: A radical remainer, but a remainer nevertheless. For me now, the way things have turned out so far, the only commonsensical solution would be for Mrs. May to end these negotiations and to file an application for a Norway-style agreement</s>GORANI: Right.</s>VAROUFAKIS: For a period of five years after the end of the two-year period, so a total of seven years as a transition period during which businesses, citizens, both European citizens and British citizens, will have certainty. And a period during which the House of Commons will be given the opportunity that it has been denied so far to debate, in the fullness of time and without a ticking clock in the background, the future relationship between the UK and the</s>EU. GORANI: But the impacts on the British economy, regardless of how you look at it, is going to be negative, you believe.</s>VAROUFAKIS: Not under the Norway scenario. Under the Norway scenario, it would be steady as she goes. Under the scenario that they are moving towards, absolutely, there's going to be either hard Brexit or a very bad deal.</s>GORANI: Yanis Varoufakis there with his take on Brexit negotiations. Interesting that he believes that even if the UK changes its mind, the EU might not want the country back in the fold. Spain says it will move forward with suspending Catalonia's autonomy. Madrid's announcement came minutes after the Catalan president threatened a formal declaration of independence if the Spanish government doesn't take part in talks. In a statement, the Spanish government says it will trigger Article 155 of the Constitution, which gives the Spanish government the power to enforce the laws in the autonomous regions by any measures necessary. The Prime Minister's cabinet will meet Saturday to OK measures to "restore the constitutional order" in Catalonia, calm, though, it appears on the streets of big Catalonian cities right now. Now, we've been telling you this hour about the White House briefing by Chief of Staff John Kelly. His words hold a lot of weight in Washington. I want to get back to the White House. Kaitlan Collins is there with more. So, John Kelly did address the questions surrounding the president's phone calls to Gold Star families, notably the Gold Star widow of La David Johnson who was killed in Niger.</s>KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, that's right. It's created a lot of controversy over the past few days after those incidents, disputing over what exactly was said during that phone call and if the president struck a respectful tone when he was speaking of the widow of Sergeant La David Johnson. And instead of having the Press Secretary Sarah Sanders come out and address these questions from reporters today, they brought the Chief of Staff John Kelly. Now, this is notable not only because the chief of staff doesn't often speak to reporters, but also because Kelly lost his son in Afghanistan a few years ago. So, he came out to speak today about what it was like to lose someone like that and went through a very somber process about what happens to a soldier when they're brought back home. Listen to this.</s>JOHN KELLY, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Some presidents have elected to call. All presidents, I believe, have elected to send letters. If you elect to call a family like this, it is one of the most difficult thing you could imagine. There's no perfect way to make that phone call. When I took this job and talked to President Trump about how to do it, my first recommendation was he not do it. He asked me about previous presidents. And I said, I can tell you that President Obama, who was my commander-in- chief when I was on active duty, did not call my family. So, when I gave that explanation to our president three days ago, he elected to make phone calls in the case of the four young men who we lost in Niger at the earlier part of this month.</s>COLLINS: So, Kelly says there that he really coached the president on what to say during these phone calls. As someone who has experienced something like this, he was saying that there's really nothing that the president could have said that would lightened the burden that's been placed on these families. But Kelly also had some strong language for that Democratic congresswoman from Florida who was in the car when the president called Sergeant La David Johnson's widow to give her a condolence call. She's been very critical of the president saying that he said along the lines of Johnson knew what he signed up for when this happened and extremely critical of what the president said during that call. And John Kelly said just there, during the briefing just now, that he was stunned and heartbroken to see a member of Congress saying something like that and that he actually left the White House yesterday and went to Arlington Cemetery here right outside of DC and walked along - where all these soldiers that have died in battle are buried. And it was a very emotional press conference to say the least.</s>GORANI: Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thanks very much. Coming up, it happens at work, on the bus, even at home. We'll look at why so many women have united by saying Me Too. It's gone viral as they say. We'll find what is next. Stay with us.