Professor Karen Swallow Prior Discusses Jerry Falwell Jr. Resigning From Liberty University Amid Sex Scandal; Wendell Harris, President, NAACP Waukesha, Wisconsin, Branch, Discusses Jacob Blake Shooting By Police & Protests
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: He was one of the first prominent evangelicals to support Trump in 2016. Now Jerry Falwell Jr is mired in scandal and his job as president of the Liberty University is over. The executive committee of the school's board accepted his resignation moments ago, This, after a Miami man has claimed he had a long-running affair with Falwell's wife and Falwell watched them while they were intimate over several years. As the allegations came to light, Falwell agreed to resign from his Liberty University post and said he wasn't resigning, but then finally told CNN he would step down. Professor Karen Swallow Prior taught at Liberty University for 21 years. She's now a research professor at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, and joins me now. Professor, thanks for being with us. You told the "Washington Post" that morale was low and frustration was growing at Liberty University for years under Falwell's leadership. Can you talk more about that?</s>KAREN SWALLOW PRIOR, RESEARCH PROFESSOR, SOUTHEASTERN BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY & FORMER PROFESSOR, LIBERTY UNIVERSITY: Sure, I mean, the kinds of things that have been revealed over the past couple of days are not things that happen in isolation. There have been red flags for a long time. The kind of arrogance and authoritarian leadership that we experienced as faculty was really just a symptom of this lifestyle that obviously was one in which he thought that he could do anything and get away with it.</s>COOPER: It seems like -- I remember there was a case even before this one, of a trainer to the couple, who ended up with an advantageous property deal, which the university says was all on the up-and-up. But as you said, there have been red flags over the years.</s>SWALLOW PRIOR: Absolutely. I mean, just as we saw with Jeffrey Epstein's case and Harvey Weinstein's and all of the "Me Too" moments that we're dealing with today, there are plenty of red flags. It's just difficult to prove something without corroboration. We have to move methodically and give due process. And these things take time. We're just thankful that the truth has come out and it can be dealt with and the university can move on and continue its great mission that it's been doing for 50 years now.</s>COOPER: Falwell called the parent of a student a dummy for questioning him when keeping students at the campus during the coronavirus this year. And later, he apologized after showing a tweet that showed one person black-faced and another person in a KKK hood and robe. Amid that kind of behavior, was his power at Liberty University -- I mean, you called it authoritarian. Was it power kind of unchecked for a long time?</s>SWALLOW PRIOR: It was absolutely unchecked. You have to understand that, as Christians, at a Christian university, we are all serving. We believe in the mission. We believe in our students. We want to support them. So we're kind of busy doing our jobs. As evangelicals, we tend to trust authorities and institutions probably too much. I think we're all learning the error of those ways. And so we also just maybe don't want to believe those rumors and we would rather wish that they aren't true. But we have a responsibility to pay attention, to listen to women, to listen to other victims of abuse, and to pursue these red flags until we know what the truth is and the truth is revealed.</s>COOPER: Falwell is credited with Liberty University's financial recovery since he took over in 2007. He said he was never a minister. He's a businessman. I mean, is there still support for him at Liberty University, do you think, among the faculty or trustees or students?</s>SWALLOW PRIOR: I think now that these revelations have come out, it's clear that for too long money was put before other things. The university certainly did flourish under his leadership in one sense. But you cannot separate financial success from the mission of the school. And while it's healthy now, and I think that we have reached this turning point just in time, we need to, I think, just clean house and reorient the university to its original mission. And I'm faithful that the board now is awake, has their eyes open, and they will do that.</s>COOPER: This is not the first time there's been people who seem hypocritical, who profess one thing and then, in their private lives, seem to be doing something else entirely. So it's not a surprise. In fact, it's sort of almost become a stereotype and predictable in some cases. But nevertheless, it is harmful for those -- you know, for people of faith to have somebody who professes to be a model of faith behave like this over the course of many years. It hurts everybody.</s>SWALLOW PRIOR: It absolutely does. And of course, it hurts not only me personally, but I have many students who were aware of these things who are hurt and struggling and doubting their faith now. So the consequences are dire. But ultimately, it does point to the fact that the core of our belief that we are too put our faith in God, not in man.</s>COOPER: Karen Swallow Prior, I really appreciate talking to you. Thank you very much.</s>SWALLOW PRIOR: Thank you. Protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin, are outraged about another shooting of an unarmed black man at the hands of police. Peaceful protests in the day turned into standoffs with police and National Guard last night. You saw a vehicle has been lit on fire, property damaged. All of this after police shot Jacob Blake seven times in his back Sunday. His children witnessing it all. The incident videotaped by bystanders. Demonstrators set several buildings on fire and cars. City leaders are calling for calm amid the unrest. Blake's father tells CNN his son has been paralyzed but remains in stable condition in the ICU. Wendell Harris is president of the NAACP Wisconsin state conference branch. He is with me. Thank so much for being with us. The video of the shooting has been seen by millions of people all over the world. It has sparked demonstrations, obviously outrage. I'm wondering what your reaction was when you saw it? It starts with Mr. Blake moving from the passenger rear side of the vehicle -- of a vehicle to the driver's side. We don't know what happened before. But what was your reaction when you say it?</s>WENDELL HARRIS, MEMBER,, NATIONAL BOARD OF DIRECTORS & PRESIDENT, NAACP WAUKESHA, WISCONSIN BRANCH: When I saw the shooting for the first time, my wife and I were sitting on our couch watching the evening news. And my first response was, how could this person just follow this man to a car and shoot him in the back. It was almost unbelievable. But having things happen the way they've happened in Wisconsin with the George Floyd and all the other black men I've seen shot in the back, shot and killed in the state of Wisconsin and around this country for many years, it almost becomes normal. And that was my first response, just plain anger and bewilderment.</s>COOPER: I talked to the governor of Wisconsin yesterday and he said it might be some period of time -- you know, it's not going to be immediately that we're going to hear investigators. Do you have confidence in the investigation that is ongoing? Because the Kenosha police immediately handed it over to other authorities to actually investigate, which I guess is the procedure.</s>HARRIS: Well, for me, as a state conference president of the NAACP, and a national board member, it's not a question of whether we have confidence. We demand that there's a thorough investigation, a fair investigation, and we're going to receive that. We're going to get that. We now have a governor in Wisconsin who has called for a special session on police accountability, a governor that has clearly shown that he and his administration is about all the people in Wisconsin being treated with respect and dignity, unlike his predecessor. So if we turned the clock back one day and the predecessor was in office, I would have no confidence that we were going to do anything to alleviate some of this anger and fear that the police department have concerning black men to where they take their guns out and shoot us at the drop of a hat. I know that this is going to change under the new governor. And the NAACP is going to be at the table and making those policies that bring about change.</s>COOPER: We've heard from our correspondents that the Blake family has said that they're happy that -- I don't know if happy is the right word -- but they appreciate that people are focused on this and are protesting and having their voices heard. They're also calling for it to be nonviolent protests, not any kind of destruction linked to Mr. Blake. What is the scene, the situation now on the ground in Kenosha?</s>HARRIS: Well, as protests are taking place right behind me, I can hear it coming from on the right side in the plaza. You know, I can't step away from the camera to give you a full description, but the protests are still taking place. And, yes, we do not -- the NAACP does not support the violence or the looting, for that matter. We want to work this out and protect other people's property. We want everybody to be respected regardless of race or what political affiliation they're part of. This is about us coming together as a nation and respecting each other as people. And that's what we're fighting for. And that's what we're going to continue to fight for. But I certainly support -- as the Wisconsin state conference president, I support the young people's right to protest. I don't want anyone to get the impression that the NAACP don't want to see the protests. Because I'll be the first one out fighting with them if anyone tries to take away that right.</s>COOPER: Wendell Harris, I appreciate your time. And I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. Thank you.</s>HARRIS: Thank you again for having us on the show. Good day.</s>COOPER: Take care. Take care. Thousands of families across the country are living their worst nightmare, losing a loved one to the coronavirus. Coming up, one family's story after losing not one, but two members of the family. What they have to say to others who aren't taking the virus seriously.