International Criminal Court Requests Arrest Warrants for Gadhafi
ANDERSON: In Libya, demonstrations quashed and civilians attacked by snipers and thousands of people killed -- all direct evidence of crimes against humanity, according, at least, to the International Criminal Court's top prosecutor, after what has been a pretty speedy investigation. He has requested arrest warrants for Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi and two members of his inner circle. More on the case now from senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson.</s>NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The quest for the arrest warrants is just the beginning of the process here at the International Criminal Court. The chief prosecutor, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, says he's confident that the judges will issue the warrants against Moammar Gadhafi, against his second son, Saif al-Islam, against Moammar Gadhafi's brother-in-law and military intelligence chief, Abdullah al-Sanussi. And he also says that he expects to be able to present evidence here that they had a direct role in what he describes as widespread and systemic abuse of putting down the civilian population as they tried to revolt against the government. He calls this crimes against humanity, of murder and of prosecution. He says he has direct evidence of the three men's involvement.</s>LUIS MORENO-OCAMPO, CHIEF PROSECUTOR, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT: The civilians attacking the demonstrations. And we have all the evidence they were attacked. There was even artillery in the funerals. So there are snipers waiting for people coming out of this mosque. But the worst thing is happening today in the areas on the</s>ROBERTSON: A source with knowledge of back channel peace talks say that the arrest warrants will make it much harder to negotiate a settlement in Libya because the regime leaders will have their backs against the wall and nothing to lose, everything to fight for. And they say that could mean a bloody battle for the capital, Tripoli. Luis Moreno-Ocampo, the chief prosecutor, says that isn't his responsibility, that negotiators will have to be creative. But he does believe that by pushing ahead with the arrest warrants, it will prompt people to rise up against Gadhafi. He says in the last few days, he's received phone calls from senior people in the regime willing to offer evidence against these three men. Nic Robertson, CNN, at the International Criminal Court, the Hague, the Netherlands.</s>ANDERSON: All right, well, that's the story from there. Even though it's unlikely that Colonel Gadhafi would be arrested any time soon, rebels in Libya are embracing the prosecutor's moves, saying it will give them -- their movement a boost of momentum. A rebel spokesman told CNN the arrest warrants, if issued, are not enough, but they are at least a start.</s>JALAL AL-GALLAL, LIBYAN TRANSITIONAL COUNCIL MEDIA COMMITTEE: Well, it is very important. And, actually, generally, people feel relieved that at long last, that the world is acknowledging that Gadhafi, his family and his entourage, are the perpetrators of crimes over the last 42 years. It also sends a very clear signal to all those around him that nobody is exempted. And it will obviously help speed defection and desertion. So people would be naturally relieved.</s>ANDERSON: Well, that's the rebels' side of the story. The Libyan government's reaction to the request for arrest warrants is basically that it has no reaction, that it's not an ICC member state and therefore it doesn't care. Well, Nima Elbagir comes to us from Tripoli with more on that -- Nima.</s>NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, and a real studied show of indifference here in Tripoli, Becky. The Libyan government has cited to us the example of the precedent set by the Sudanese president, Omar al-Bashir, who, in spite of having an outstanding arrest warrant out against him, continues to travel and continues to sit in power. And all this, of course, comes on the day that NATO has struck, for the fourth time -- I'm sorry, for the fifth time on Gadhafi's Bab al- Aziziyah Compound. This was a daylight strike, the second we've had during this week. And it really gives us a sense, as they continue to hammer at the -- the heart of his -- his rule structure here in Tripoli, that perhaps the ICC really is -- that this show of indifference isn't that put on, that the ICC really is the least of the Libyan government's problems at the moment -- Becky.</s>ANDERSON: Nima Elbagir in Tripoli for you. Nima, thank you for that. Well, let's delve deeper then into NATO's role in the war, shall we? Divisions within the alliance and the debate over how hard it should be hammering forces loyal to Colonel Gadhafi at the top of many people's minds. Micah Zenko is with the Council on Foreign Relations, where he is a fellow for conflict prevention, an expert on the case and therefore coming to you tonight from New York. You know, there will be viewers tonight, Michael -- who are asking -- Micah, sorry -- who are asking why, given the commitment by the alliance, some time ago, is Gadhafi still a threat to the people of Libya. What is the answer to that?</s>MICAH ZENKO, FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, Gadhafi, you know, has retained the military capability, as is shown by the shelling of many urban populations, to kill and threaten populations and to stop the provision of humanitarian assistance. And the sort of tense stalemate is where things stand mean that as long as Gadhafi stands, according to many Western governments, the threat to civilians will be so great that NATO needs to continue its military commitment.</s>ANDERSON: Yes. Five times on Tripoli and the compound where Gadhafi lives. Still no news as to, you know, whether anything happened or there was any result of -- resultant injuries or deaths. But there was -- listen, there was never an enormous appetite, was there, within the alliance for NATO action? Let's talk about where the appetite is then, as -- as we move through the weeks and still get no results, as it were, out of Libya. Who wants this action?</s>ZENKO: Well, the -- the countries that were so forward leaning in getting NATO involved, mainly the Arab League, which passed a resolution in mid-March, as well as the French and the British, now have brought very little commitment to conducting the air strikes, providing the close air support for the rebels and conducting air strikes against regime assets. The French and the British are almost out of deliverable weapons at this point. Countries like Norway, who have led a lot of actual strike sorties in Libya, are frustrated with all the commitments. And the Americans, given their commitment two weeks ago of just two drones, that is, four Hellfire tank missiles...</s>ANDERSON: Yes.</s>ZENKO: -- over a country the size of Alaska, demonstrates that no country in NATO is willing to commit the resources...</s>ANDERSON: Yes.</s>ZENKO: -- necessary that would be needed to topple the military balance on the ground.</s>ANDERSON: So what you're saying is Washington is not really interested, at the end of the day? Britain and France are, but they're running out of weapons. So what happens next?</s>ZENKO: I think what happens is the stalemate on the ground, the military stalemate on the ground continues. NATO can escalate to infrastructure strikes like bridges, electrical infrastructure, try to bring the fight more directly to Gadhafi and his cohorts in Tripoli. That has the likelihood of more civilian casualties and collateral damage. The alliance can also decide to formally train and arm the rebels, which is a violation, according to the United States government, of earlier U.N. Security Council resolutions. So in the absence of doing the escalated air strikes and these forces willing to do that or -- and in the absence of formally arming the rebels, it's unlikely that the situation will improve markedly soon, which is a tor -- a terrible thing, given that a humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding.</s>ANDERSON: Just one question to you. Do you believe that the -- in the tribal areas, there is still support for Gadhafi or not? Because if there is, the rebels, effectively, are on one side of a civil war and NATO is getting involved in a real mess, isn't it?</s>ZENKO: Well, NATO says repeatedly and -- that they do not pick sides in the civil war. They will only engage forces that are threatening civilian populations. But actually, NATO is on one side of the civil war. The rebel force to seek Gadhafi's removal receives the overwhelming support of the populations, by all accounts. The problem is that, according to the United States -- and Secretary Gates said this again last -- late last week -- despite the top tier of political leaders from the rebels, we really have no idea who they are. This is despite over two months now of open conflict in Libya. Thus, it's less likely the United States is going to provide lethal aid. It's less likely that other members of NATO are going to provide arms. And it's less likely that the rebels are going to be allowed to sell oil on the open market to provide them with the money they need to survive...</s>ANDERSON: All right...</s>ZENKO: -- and to get weapons and to have day to day life.</s>ANDERSON: We're going to have to leave it there, Micah. We're going to pay for the show and take an advertising break. Always a pleasure. Thank you very much, indeed. The picture out of NATO this evening. All right, well, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN. Just before half past nine in London. Still to come on tonight's show, against the odds it was salvaged and against the odds it is in good condition. Crucial data from the ill-fated Air France 447 is finally being analyzed. Could this mean a two year old crash mystery is about to be solved? That is the story coming up, plus your headlines. You're with CNN, stay with us.