Details on FBI Probe; Health Care Insurance Bill.
SESAY: Hello everyone. We are following breaking news out of London -- a terror attack that killed four people including a police officer.</s>JONES: It struck here at the very seat of British power -- Parliament. Police say the attacker drove through a crowd of people on a bridge wounding dozens before then crashing into a fence near the Parliament Building. He then got out and stabbed an unarmed police officer. We know that that officer was 48-year-old Keith Palmer, a 15-year veteran of the Metropolitan Police force here in London. Palmer died in that attack along with three other people.</s>SESAY: Turning now to events here in the United States -- developments in the FBI investigation. A possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia are emerging at a dizzying pace. First, the House Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes revealed communications between President Trump and his associates may have been intercepted by legal surveillance of foreign targets. Nunes, a Trump transition member briefed the President and spoke with reporters without sharing that information with his Democratic counterpart on the committee. Adam Schiff blasted Nunes saying his actions cast doubt on how independent the committee's investigation really could be. Then Pamela Brown and Evan Perez had this exclusive report with our own Anderson Cooper.</s>PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson -- the FBI has information that indicates associates of President Donald Trump communicated with suspected Russian operatives to possibly coordinate the release of information damaging to Hillary Clinton's campaign. U.S. officials told us FBI director James Comey made this bombshell announcement, as you'll recall, Monday before Congress that the FBI is investigating the Trump campaign's ties to Russia. So the FBI is now reviewing this information which includes human intelligence, travel, business and phone records as well as accounts of in person meetings, according to the officials we have spoken with. And the information is raising the suspicions of FBI counter intelligence investigators that the coordination may have taken place though officials we have spoken with cautioned that this information was not conclusive and that this investigation is ongoing. The FBI would not comment, nor would the White House though Trump officials have denied there is any evidence -- Anderson.</s>ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: So, I mean, Evan -- this gives more insight into what Director Comey knew when he spoke on Monday.</s>EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right -- Anderson. If you recall, in addition to Comey saying that the investigation includes looking at connections of Trump associates, he also explained what it means that the investigation is actually being done. Take a listen.</s>UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't you need some action or some information besides just attending a meeting having been paid to attend a conference that a picture was taken? Or that you traveled to a country before you're open to investigation for counter intelligence by the FBI?</s>JAMES COMEY, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION DIRECTOR: The standard is -- I think there's a couple of different at play, a credible allegation of wrongdoing or reasonable basis to believe that an American maybe acting as an agent of a foreign power.</s>PEREZ: One law enforcement official said that the information in hand suggests quote, "people connected to the campaign were in contact" and it appeared that they were giving the thumbs' up to release information when it was ready. But other U.S. officials who we spoke to said it's premature to draw that inference from the information that they've gathered so far. At this point it's largely circumstantial. The FBI cannot yet prove that collusion actually took place but the information suggesting collusion is now a large part of the focus of this investigation according to the officials we've talked to.</s>COOPER: And Pamela -- what sort of coordination is under investigation.</s>BROWN: So we're told mostly the FBI is focused on the stolen and published e-mails by WikiLeaks including the DNC and Clinton campaign's John Podesta. Now U.S. officials said the information being investigated was not drawn from the leaked dossier of unverified information compiled by that former British intelligence official, compiled for Trump's political opponents. Though the dossier also suggested coordination between Trump campaign associates and Russian operatives -- Anderson.</s>COOPER: So Evan -- do we know who is being investigated?</s>PEREZ: Well, the sources we talked to would not say who is connected -- these people who were connected to Trump that are being investigated here. But we do know that the FBI was already investigating four former Trump campaign associates -- Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, Roger Stone and Carter Page -- for contacts with Russians known to U.S. intelligence. Now all four of those people have denied improper contacts. Anderson -- one of the interesting things is that we have some obstacles now in the way of the FBI investigation. The FBI is facing the fact that, you know, in trying to find this conclusive evidence, they're facing the fact that communication between Trump's associates and these Russians have ceased in recent months given all the public focus on these Russia ties and the Trump campaign. And then some of these Russian officials have also changed their methods of communications making monitoring that much more difficult according to the officials that we talked to.</s>SESAY: There is so much to get to, so much to dig into. Joining me now to do that -- radio talk show host Ethan Bearman and Jim Lacy. He's the author of "Taxifornia" and a Trump supporter. Gentlemen -- welcome. God to have you with us.</s>ETHAN BEARMAN, RADIO HOST: Thank you.</s>SESAY: All right. Well, let's remind everyone first off, of the announcement the FBI chief made on Monday during those hearings. Take a listen.</s>COMEY: The FBI as part of our counter intelligence mission is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. And that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government.</s>SESAY: That was the bombshell that Comey dropped on Monday. After that the White House spokesman Sean Spicer said there is no evidence that suggested that any collusion took place. James -- first to you, from the reporting that our Pam Brown and Evan Perez have shared with us it would appear that that isn't actually the case, that he wasn't actually being accurate.</s>JAMES LACY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, I think that there is some inaccuracy in the report tonight with respect to Devin Nunes in not talking to Adam Schiff. You know, I want to take a step back and I want to frame the question a little different way. What we heard about this morning from Congressman Devin Nunes, the head of the Intelligence Committee, relates to individuals' privacy rights. He reported that we had a situation where a private citizen, although associated with the Trump campaign was surveilled on information that had absolutely no foreign intelligence value. And that it was --</s>SESAY: Not to cut you off --</s>LACY: -- widely distributed --</s>SESAY: Not to cut you off, James, but specifically --</s>LACY: -- within the government.</s>SESAY: -- not to cut you off but specifically referring to what Evan Perez and our own Pam Brown shared earlier on about this new information that he had on the investigations of possible collusion within the Trump campaign.</s>LACY: Well, it's curious but that information came just hours after Devin Nunes announced that there had been inappropriate surveillance and inappropriate dissemination of information.</s>SESAY: What are you suggesting?</s>LACY: Well, what I'm suggesting is, is that there is more than a coincidence that U.S. officials released information to CNN that would somehow step back on the initial information. You know, look -- you know, what is the fruit of the poisonous tree? What is this investigation all about? This investigation is about whether or not the Trump campaign had links to Russians who hacked the DNC. And what did that hacking accomplish? It revealed that journalists, including journalists at CNN, cheated. That they went against their journalistic ethics and they gave information over to the Democrats to help Hillary Clinton. Now that's it.</s>SESAY: But what it revealed --</s>BEARMAN: No.</s>LACY: This is part of it.</s>SESAY: Ethan -- you jump in here.</s>BEARMAN: Classic example of attacking the messenger. The information -- the person who released the information as opposed to the information itself. The information itself is extremely damaging and it's actually rather ironic that Republicans who typically would be the ones that will want to fight communist Russia and an autocrat like a Vladimir Putin -- they've been very strong about that in the past -- suddenly are passive about the fact that there are connections here. We have four officials who have lied about their contacts. What makes this --</s>LACY: No, there's no evidence of that.</s>BEARMAN: Of course there is.</s>BEARMAN: They just were named in the report.</s>LACY: There's no evidence --</s>BEARMAN: Paul Manafort --</s>LACY: There no evidence.</s>SESAY: Paul Manafort --</s>BEARMAN: Absolutely.</s>LACY: There's no evidence of that.</s>BEARMAN: Attorney General Sessions himself lied twice under oath.</s>LACY: No.</s>BEARMAN: Lied under oath.</s>LACY: No, he did not.</s>BEARMAN: There were no contacts, he said.</s>LACY: Oh, wow.</s>SESAY: Let him finish the point.</s>BEARMAN: So the other aspect of this, that is rather ironic is when you talk about a foreign power interfering in U.S. elections that is non-partisan that an American citizen would want to get to the bottom of that. And in this case, suddenly instead of trying to get to the bottom of it, it's misdirections attacking the messenger as opposed to the information.</s>SESAY: All right. There's a lot to get to. So I also want to go to the point of Chairman Nunes' disclosures today about communications from the President and his associates getting swept up. James, to you -- people have suggested that Chairman Nunes had political motivations by coming with this information now and was trying to provide some cover to the White House. Do you think that was going on?</s>LACY: You have to look at what his office is. He is the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. He has legal responsibilities to the American people to oversee intelligence. So what did he do? When he had the information, the first thing that he did, he didn't go to Trump. The first thing he did was he informed the Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan. He then called the CIA director and informed him. He then went to go see the President of the United States. Why is it important that he should go see the President of the United States about this? Because the President of the United States enforces the intelligence laws of this nation. You know, there's a lot of Eric Snowden type issues involved with the revelation that Congressman Nunes made this morning that our government is surveilling people that they shouldn't be surveilling --</s>SESAY: Ok.</s>SESAY: Let's be absolutely accurate here for our viewers who maybe haven't been following this as closely as we have. Chairman Nunes also said that "This is a normal incident of collection --</s>BEARMAN: Yes.</s>SESAY: -- based on what I could collect. This appears to be all legally collected foreign intelligence under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act."</s>LACY: And it was -- Isha. But the problem is, is that the information was disseminated. This is the issue that people are missing in the discussion. This information, even when the intelligence agencies would have known that there was absolutely no foreign intelligence value to it they still went forward and they still put it in reports and they widely disseminated it --</s>SESAY: We do not know if there was no value.</s>BEARMAN: No --</s>LACY: It's two separate issues.</s>BEARMAN: -- but that is the point.</s>LACY: You have the issue of Russia --</s>BEARMAN: Can I just finish on this?</s>LACY: -- and you have the issue of the leaks? So they're two separate issues.</s>SESAY: Let him finish his point.</s>LACY: Please let me finish on this point. That information should not have been disseminated widely within the intelligence community. There should have been a stop to it. Now, that might be a policy issue but it's certainly something for our government to be looking into. It's certainly something for our Congress to be looking into. And it's certainly something that we should be afraid.</s>SESAY: All right.</s>LACY: I mean Big Brother is out there looking at us and this is an example of it.</s>SESAY: Very quickly -- let Ethan respond to that because the President now sees this as a gift and vindicating him of his wiretap tweet.</s>BEARMAN: Well, I think to Trump supporters, of course, they'll see it as vindication. And to everybody else who's looking at this rationally, trying to get to the bottom of what is actually happening here. We need a full investigation. We also need the chairman to follow protocol and involve the entire Intelligence Committee not just the President and the</s>CIA. SESAY: All right. There's a lot to get to and we'll continue this conversation in the next hour. But I do want to turn our attention to health care. It could be the beginning of the end for Obamacare. Republican-backed legislation to roll back the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, is up for a vote in the U.S. House Thursday. Republicans need at least 216 votes. And so far dozens of them have signaled they will vote against it. To win more support, House leaders now want to eliminate an Obamacare provision that requires insurers to cover maternity care, mental health treatment and prescription drugs. The bill would eliminate the individual mandate that requires everyone to have health insurance or pay a fine. It would dramatically restructure Medicare, the U.S. government health program for the elderly and disabled. But we have to point out some popular parts of Obamacare would stay including coverage for pre-existing conditions and allowing children to remain on their parents' health plan up to the age of 26. Well, some data for you. According to the Congressional Budget Office, 24 million Americans would lose their health care under the Republican plan. Let's go back to our guests who are still with me. They haven't strangled each other yet. Listen, Ethan -- you know, the bottom line is the White House needs this. The White House needs this win. They're whipping up the votes as are the folks on Capitol Hill, trying to get everyone in line. Who needs this win more? Speaker Ryan or President Trump?</s>BEARMAN: Well, in this case, that's probably Speaker Ryan because if he fails at this, I think that there's a real chance for rebellion. And it's the House Freedom Caucus, the conservative side of the Republican Party, who is fighting this. Remember they don't need a single Democratic vote as long as they can get Republican votes. And if the House Freedom Caucus -- now the number has changed during the day from 25 to 24 to 23 who are still opposed to it. If it gets to 21, the bill will pass. But if it -- if it fails, that shows that the conservative wing won and Paul Ryan could be in trouble.</s>SESAY: All right. Well, the White House spokesman Sean Spicer was asked about what comes next if the bill fails. Listen to what he said.</s>SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There is no plan. I mean this is -- there's Plan A and Plan A. We're going to get this done.</s>SESAY: All right. James -- is this really the end of the line if this dies on the floor on Thursday?</s>LACY: Well, I don't think it's going to die on the floor on Thursday. But you know --</s>SESAY: That sounds confident.</s>LACY: -- seven years ago this month, Obamacare was enacted and you know how many votes they got on the floor? 219 -- they got two more votes than they needed. So we're sort of seeing a repeat here in the repeal and reform of Obamacare. Look, Obamacare is in a death spiral. It's been really bad for our country. And it was based on false premises by Obama, you know, sort of the first fake news that you could keep your doctor.</s>SESAY: Are you really going down that road?</s>LACY: That you could keep -- yes, I am -- you could keep your doctor -- because it's true. You could keep your doctor. You could keep your health plan. And that premiums are going to be lower. None of that came in to being and in fact it's become a huge tax burden. It's got $1 trillion of tax burden if it's not repealed between now and 2020. And do you know how many people get --</s>SESAY: All right.</s>LACY: -- free health care in California now as a result of Obamacare and Medicaid -- free? One-third of the state, 13.5 million -- somebody's got to pay for them.</s>SESAY: I have to tell you though, as you celebrate the possible passing of this replacement -- repeal and replacement act -- there are those who have a warning for President Trump if indeed that does happen. Take a listen to Republican Congressman Thomas Massie had to say.</s>REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R), KENTUCKY: We're afraid he's a one-term president if this passes. We are trying to save him. The phone calls to my office are running 275 against versus four. Only four votes from my constituents are in favor of this. So this electoral lead voting for this is bad today. And it's going to be really bad in two or three years when the changes start kicking in. And health insurance prices are going through the roof.</s>SESAY: Ethan -- is Congressman Massie right?</s>BEARMAN: Yes. I mean it was so fascinating. Again -- Paul Ryan did what was -- I consider to be impossible. He upset everybody. He upset the left. He upset the right. He appeased a few people including President Trump. That's why we can call this Trumpcare. The problem ultimately with Trumpcare is this. For as much as some Republicans are supporting it, what it never does is ever address the cost side. Why is health care 20 percent of our GDP now? They have failed miserably in addressing the underlying causes. If I was advising President Trump, I would say please focus on the underlying issues of health, nutrition, diet, exercise. That is why health care is 20 percent and the pharmaceutical industry we have so many issues here that aren't being addressed. And this bill doesn't do anything to solve it.</s>SESAY: All right. Gentlemen -- James I'll give you a chance to respond to that in the next hour. I want to thank you for the conversation at this point. Thank you. We're going to toss it back to my colleague, Hannah, who's in London with the latest on that terror attack a few hours ago -- Hannah.</s>JONES: Isha -- thanks very much. Indeed, yes London is starting to whirl back into life again this morning. It's just coming up to half past four in the morning, local time this Thursday. Behind me though, as you can see, very little happening. The whole of Parliament is still on lockdown after that terror attack from yesterday. Coming up we'll have a look at what police and security forces can do to stop vehicle attacks like this one.