Torture Debate Has Overshadowed Rice's European Trip
PHILLIPS: Iraq has finally shut its western border with Syria. It's a pre-election precaution in light of Syria's alleged role as supplier, or at minimum, conduit of fighters and weapons. Car, train, and pedestrian traffic on hold until further notice. There's also a curfew and a ban on civilian weapons. A bombed out bus on the uphill road toward bona fide democracy. A representative government in Iraq one week before Iraqis choose a four-year parliament, a suicide bomber jumped on a bus leaving Baghdad for Nasiriya, in the deeply Shiite south. At least 30 people were killed on that bus and at a nearby food stand, where the blast reportedly set off secondary explosions in propane tanks. It all took place at a major depot where more than 40 people were killed in a triple car bombing back in August. Some day, Iraqi troops and police are supposed to be ready, willing and able to face and defeat insurgents on their own. It's a tall order. One American lawmaker worries it's taller than you think. Democratic Congressman Rush Holt feels that terrorists are infiltrating Iraqi security forces. He's going to join me live in the next hour of LIVE FROM. And the torture debate rages on. It's overshadowed Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's latest European trip. The issue was raised again in her meeting at NATO headquarters in Brussels. She admitted abuses of terror suspects could still happen despite U.S. rules prohibiting torture. Still, she may be winning European politicians over. CNN European political editor Robin Oakley reports.</s>ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's taken all the charm she can muster, along with plenty of hard-headed diplomacy. But slowly, grudgingly, Condoleezza Rice seems to be winning over Europe's politician to the U.S. policy of extraordinary rendition, spiriting away terrorist suspects to mystery destinations for robust interrogation. In Kiev, she pledged the U.N. convention against torture applied to U.S. personnel abroad as well as those at home. Detainees were not to be subjected to degrading treatment, not covered by the convention. The pledge that America has a no torture policy was repeated when she met NATO foreign ministers in Brussels.</s>CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: The United States does not engage in torture, doesn't condone it, doesn't expect its employees to engage in it.</s>OAKLEY: But the breakthrough seems to have come over dinner Wednesday. Fighting terrorism, she acknowledged in softer tones than before, create a dilemma for democracies. And it was all about striking the right balance. Her allies were swift in support.</s>JAAP DE HOOP SCHEFFER, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: I think it was a good discussion. I think it cleared the air. I think that Secretary Rice made a strong intervention.</s>OAKLEY: But crucial approval afterwards too, from some who had been sharpest in their criticism of alleged U.S. practices.</s>BEN BOT, DUTCH FOREIGN MINISTER: It is often difficult to strike a balance, but given the assurances which, once again, she has given, that the United States will act in conformity with its own constitution, its own laws and will obey or act also in accordance with international agreements, I think that we have gotten all the guarantees and all the satisfactory answers we can hope for.</s>OAKLEY: Across Europe, Dr. Rice has insisted good intelligence is the key to fighting terrorism. And governments, she insists, have to accept the consequences.</s>RICE: This is not like normal, criminal activity where you wait until something has happened and then you arrest the suspects and then you try them, and then you punish them. Once the crime is committed in this case, 3,000 people are dead in New York and Washington, or people are dead on July 7th in -- and the scores in Great Britain, or a Palestinian wedding party has been attacked in Jordan.</s>OAKLEY: At the expense of other business on her trip being totally submerged, Dr. Rice has removed some of the suspicions of European ministers. But many of them, she's implied, had more than an inkling of what was going on anyway. Persuading Europe's parliaments and people the U.S. has not been subcontracting torture may take a good deal longer. Robin Oakley, CNN, at NATO headquarters in Brussels.</s>PHILLIPS: Crime is down, but fear is up, way up, in New Orleans. We're going to tell you about a run on the guns in the city when LIVE FROM returns.