Interview With Mike Huckabee; Interview With Mike McConnell
JOHN KING, GUEST HOST: It's 11:00 a.m. here in Washington, 8:00 a.m. in Los Angeles, and 7:00 p.m. in Baghdad. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks for joining us for "Late Edition." I'm John King. Wolf is away today. Mike Huckabee says he didn't major in math, but in miracles. Well, the math says he needs a miracle to win his party's nomination from Republican presidential front-runner John McCain. And this morning, consumer advocate Ralph Nader announced a third-party, run further complicating an already dramatic presidential race. That was the first topic when I spoke with Governor Huckabee just a short time ago.</s>KING: Joining us now, the former Arkansas governor and Republican presidential candidate, Mike Huckabee. He joins us from New York. Good morning, Governor.</s>HUCKABEE: Good morning, John.</s>KING: In the news today, Governor, the prospect of another Ralph Nader candidacy, the Green Party candidacy in the past, Democrats have said that hurt them in presidential elections. What's your take on Ralph Nader?</s>HUCKABEE: Well, I think it always would probably pull votes away from the Democrats, not the Republicans. So naturally Republicans would welcome his entry into the race and hope that maybe a few more will join in.</s>KING: As you know, there has been chatter, from time to time, about the prospect of a third party candidacy from the right. Have you picked that up at all in your travels, that if John McCain is the Republican nominee, perhaps there would be a significant third party challenge from the right?</s>HUCKABEE: I don't think so. I mean, a couple of times it will get mentioned. But people will say, would you ever consider it? And my answer is emphatically no. I think it's a suicide mission. Third party candidates are not going to win the election. At best, they are going to take away from one of the major parties. And I just don't see that happening within the conservative wing at all.</s>KING: One of the trademarks of your campaign, and I spent some time out on the road with you, is you have a great sense of humor. Last night you tried your hand at "Saturday Night Live," during the "Weekend Update" segment. I want to play a little segment of the show. And then we'll talk about it on the other side. Let's listen.</s>HUCKABEE: All right.</s>SETH MEYERS, "SNL WEEKEND UPDATE ANCHOR": Even if you won every remaining unpledged delegate, you would still fall 200 delegates short.</s>HUCKABEE: Wow. Seth, that was an excellent explanation.</s>MEYERS: Well, I won't forget about them. But the superdelegates are only in the Democratic primaries.</s>HUCKABEE: They can't vote in the Republican primaries?</s>MEYERS: They cannot.</s>HUCKABEE: Uh-oh.</s>KING: Uh-oh. Governor, first tell me -- take us behind the scenes. Is it a fun experience?</s>HUCKABEE: It's an awesome experience. The "Saturday Night Live" crew and cast have to be some of the most amazingly talented people in all of America. And they are also some of the hardest working people. You just can't imagine how long the hours are these guys put in. And to put that show together, to do it live, it is truly one of the most remarkable things I have ever witnessed in my life.</s>KING: Good humor from you, sir. But you also said in that segment on "Weekend Update" that, don't worry, when the time came, you would make a graceful exit. Were you trying to send a signal there?</s>HUCKABEE: Well, no. I'm just simply saying what is, you know, the obvious. I'm going to stay in this race until somebody gets 1,191 delegates, or until we go to the convention. And that still is a possibility. But I have also said very clearly that, if John McCain gets the magic number before I do, then I'll accept the verdict of the voters. But I just think voters in these states that haven't voted yet, particularly places like Texas and Ohio -- these are big states, lots of Republicans -- they haven't even voted yet. So why should they let the voters in New York and New Jersey make their choice for them, without even having a choice? I just feel like that that's not exactly the way politics ought to happen, is that you have millions of people whose votes, frankly, are told won't matter.</s>KING: You mentioned Texas. It is the biggest state still out there on the primary calendar. And if you pick up your New York Times this morning -- and you are in New York City, maybe you have one nearby -- you will see the Texas governor, Rick Perry, quoted in The New York Times Magazine. And he says this, and he is speaking of you, sir: "It is time for him to drop out. We have a mercy rule in six-man football. After halftime, if you are behind by more than 45 points, you can stop so it doesn't get to be really ugly." It's not the first time Governor Perry has suggested you find the exit. What do you make of this?</s>HUCKABEE: Well, Governor Perry supported Rudy Giuliani. And Giuliani ended up dropping out. Now he is supporting John McCain. Maybe he will do for John McCain what he did for Rudy Giuliani. That's my hope.</s>KING: I want to ask you a question about your calculations. As I do so, I want to show our viewers the delegate math, because the math is pretty daunting for you.</s>HUCKABEE: Sure.</s>KING: Here is our delegate map as it is right now. You need 1,191, as you mentioned, to win the nomination. Senator McCain has 918; Governor Romney, who has suspended his campaign, 286; you, sir, Governor Huckabee, 217; and Ron Paul pulling up the rear with 16 delegates. Obviously Senator McCain at 918, Governor Huckabee at 217, that is pretty daunting math to make up. And as I travel, a lot of people pull me aside and now they say, what does Huckabee want? What is he looking for? What are you looking for, sir, if the math doesn't work out? Any preliminary conversations with the McCain people about a convention role? Any effort on your part to shape the platform? Any one specific thing you would be looking for?</s>HUCKABEE: No. We are not talking to the McCain people about that at all, because right now I still want to make sure that we are talking seriously about getting rid of our tax code and the IRS, replacing it with a fair tax. I want to make sure we are unapologetic and unflinching in our support for a human life amendment. It has been on our platform since 1980. I know Senator McCain has not supported that. But I do, and I think a lot of Republicans do. We need to keep that out there. And you know, I understand the math, but also you look at some of these delegates in that list -- many of them are not pledged delegates. They still could make decisions otherwise. This could go to the convention. Now, I know a lot of you are saying, well, it's not likely. But it could. And until we know the outcome, I think it is just a little bit silly on my part to have worked this hard for 14 months and to let, whether it's the news media or John McCain supporters, tell me that the game is over when the clock is still ticking out there on the field.</s>KING: Some of your own advisers are beginning to think ahead about this. I want to read you something from your campaign chairman, Ed Rollins. He told this to The Politico, the Web site -- the political Web site: "At the end of the day, we'll do whatever we can to help John McCain in the fall. If he wins, great. If not, the game starts all over again. It may be open again in four years, and Mike is 51. He's got a long way to go before his political career is over." Are you thinking ahead, sir, to 2012 or beyond? And just, as you campaign now, how often do you sit down and say, OK, I'm in this until somebody gets to 1,191, but am I making sure that I'm protecting myself, that I'm not hurting my own political future?</s>HUCKABEE: No, I'm really not thinking about what's going to happen in four, eight or years beyond. I'm thinking about what's going to happen to this country. And I'm very concerned about it. I'm concerned that we are going to see our taxes go up. That will kill small business. It will kill free enterprise. It will further create the -- even more of a trade imbalance. Look, we need some big ideas when it comes to the economy. There are a lot of Americans struggling, and they are not going to get better, and their lives are not going to be any better until we do something dramatic and bold, with the kind of tax system that punishes people for working and punishes them for their productivity. That's got to stop, or we are going to just send this nation's economy into a spiral.</s>KING: As you know, sir, one of the big conversation items in Republican politics, especially, but across the country, this week, was this front page New York Times story, earlier in the week, suggesting that Senator McCain had some form of an inappropriate relationship with a Washington lobbyist. He fired back quite forcefully. Let's listen to Senator McCain.</s>SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZ.: At no time have I ever done anything that would betray the public trust nor make a decision which in any way would not be in the public interest and would favor any one or any organization.</s>KING: The McCain campaign and the Senator himself says, case closed, they are moving on, there is no story here. What do you think, sir?</s>HUCKABEE: Well, I think he has been very, very forceful in just saying, hey, it is not true. I'm going to take him at his word, because I have no reason to doubt him. And apparently a lot of people in America are taking him at his word. In fact, it seems like that this New York Times thing is the best thing that's happened to the John McCain campaign. I'm, kind of, beginning to think I'm going to ask him if maybe they would attack very viciously on the front page. It might do me some good too.</s>KING: Governor, you sat down with Dr. James Dobson this past week.</s>KING: And he is the head of Focus on the Family, a very influential Christian conservative, social conservative leader in this country. He has backed your candidacy, as an individual, not as the head of Focus on the Family.</s>HUCKABEE: Right.</s>KING: He has also been quite critical of Senator John McCain, saying that he can't envision how he could support Senator McCain. You know the influence of Dr. Dobson, whether it is on the radio, the magazines that go to millions, obviously you want his support, obviously you haven't give up hope yet, but in that private meeting, did you at all say, hey, Dr. Dobson, if it is John McCain, you need to rethink this?</s>HUCKABEE: Well, our meeting was in fact a private one. And we didn't talk as much about the specifics of political strategy as we did really the broader and bigger issues. And it was more a discussion about the big picture of this country. And we didn't get into the nitty-gritty of what is going to happen in the election. That would be a decision that Dr. Dobson would make. Obviously, I'm delighted to have his personal support. It means a lot to me, not just politically, but personally, because he does recognize that I'm the one candidate left in this race who supports a human life amendment and a marriage amendment, things that I think are fundamental to really establishing a proper understanding that this country cannot have a strong government if it doesn't have strong families. And it can't have strong families if it doesn't have respect for each human life as having intrinsic worth and value. Those are things that are fundamental. These aren't peripheral political issues. They are really foundational issues upon which we build the rest of our culture.</s>KING: We are going to have the director of national intelligence, Admiral Mike McConnell on the program today. As you know, there has been a controversy. Congress would not pass a reauthorization of the controversial surveillance policy the administration says are necessary to protect the American people in the war on terrorism. Congress says it offered a temporary extension. The administration said no. The administration says, because of this impasse, the American people are less safe today and that some intelligence has fallen by the wayside, if you will. What do you think about that dispute?</s>HUCKABEE: I think it is important to have very thorough surveillance capabilities, but they also need to be monitored by Congress. This is a delicate area. And it is an area that is new to us, because, with technology being what it is today, we have new tools that have never been available before, things that our founding fathers never envisioned when the Bill of Rights was crafted. And so it is uncharted territory. Two things we need to remember -- one, the first job of the president is to keep this country safe. He should us every -- everything at his disposal to do so. But it is also the job of Congress to make sure that the executive branch does not overstep its boundaries in terms of power. That is why we have the balance of power. It is why we have equal branches of government. And I think there is a healthy tension that was designed into our system. Now, when that tension gets so tight that it starts breaking rather than just stretching, then we have got a problem. And that is what is wrong in Washington. There is not a willingness to sit down and say, let's really try to make this decision best for the American people. I'm afraid we have a lot of people trying to make the decision best for each political party, and that is why people are so angry and frustrated with the dysfunction of Washington.</s>KING: The former Arkansas governor, Mike Huckabee. The week ahead brings you to Rhode Island, Ohio, and Texas. Governor, thanks for joining us on "Late Edition." We will see you out on the trail.</s>HUCKABEE: Thank you, John.</s>KING: And coming up, Senator McCain's lobbyist controversy: Could it derail his effort to shore up support among conservatives? We'll talk with the McCain campaign national co-chairman, Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty. You're watching "Late Edition," the last word in Sunday talk.