China Concealed Severity of Virus
DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. is putting forward a lie. They're pointing specifically at Mike Pompeo, as you pointed out, just in the evening newscast tonight. The CCTV state broadcaster, which carries heavy propaganda from -- from the government, they were saying that he's evil. And they go on to say that he creates rumors recklessly in the face of science. But their whole approach is that this is a narrative that essentially is a deflection for the U.S. government because they weren't prepared for what was coming their way. But as you mentioned, Jim, it's going to be really trying for them to keep going with that if you've got Australia, if you've got the U.K., if you've got other countries within Europe who likewise start questioning the origins of this virus.</s>JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Right. Mike Rogers, let's talk about the intelligence for a moment here, because there has been reporting that intelligence officials are concerned the administration is doing what's called conclusion shopping here. In other words saying that they've already decided China's responsible and now is pressuring intelligence agencies to find intelligence to support that claim. That said, we do know that China at least delayed letting word out about the extent of this outbreak here. What do you see, given the differences between the public statements from the intelligence agencies on this saying we're looking into it, not saying we have evidence, and the secretary of state and the president saying we've seen the evidence, it's real.</s>MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Yes, well the intelligence community has come to the conclusion that they don't believe that it was created, a manmade virus in a lab for the purposes of some bioterrorism or at least studying bioterrorism. They've come to that conclusion.</s>SCIUTTO: Right.</s>ROGERS: So the very strong rhetoric coming out of the U.S. administration, and at least questioning around the world, Pakistan has asked the U.N. for an investigation. I know that members of parliament in Great Britain and Australia as well have asked for study of origin. So there's -- the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. And my argument here is, they may have seen it and then brought it in for testing, but weren't honest with the world about what it was -- where it was and what it, you know, the protocols of this particular virus, Covid-19, were. And that, in fact, probably caused a rippling effect of the impact of Covid-19 around the world. So a little bit of culpability all around. And why China's reacting so hard, Jim, is this really flies in the face of their free (ph) warfare plan, the first and foremost is controlling public opinion at home --</s>SCIUTTO: Yes.</s>ROGERS: Let alone internationally. And they're kind of losing this fight and I think you can see that it is driving them absolutely crazy.</s>SCIUTTO: You're the perfect person to ask this, Mike Rogers, to distinguish between the politics and the intelligence here on this, right, because there were missteps in this country as well in terms of getting on top of this early. When you see the Trump administration so aggressively go after China and now, frankly, it's talking about punishing China for this series of sanctions, et cetera, is that largely based on the facts of this, or is there a political motivation here as well in terms of diverting responsibility?</s>ROGERS: So I'm going to guess that the intelligence has shown that China knew and didn't disclose it to -- not only to their communities, but to the world. So there was some delay in them understanding the severity of this and not have full reporting. That's why they didn't want scientists on the ground. They were trying to control again the public opinion of what this was. The intelligence so far has claimed that they don't believe it was lab made. It's a manmade event. So the real question, and I think why you see these questioning around the -- around the world is, did they, in fact, know about it, were they -- did they bring it in for testing. And that doesn't mean they released it, it just means they were testing on it. So those things I just don't think are yet determined. I do think if you're going to make this claim, at the least the administration should be doing is briefing that intelligence, those cables to the appropriate members of Congress so that you have a whole, unified effort here.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes.</s>ROGERS: Having the United States fighting each other about who shot who in Wuhan is not helpful at all.</s>SCIUTTO: Yes. And those kinds of briefings, administration to the relevant committees, are ones that have become less common in this administration on sensitive intelligence. David Culver, I'm curious there, because there were -- there were questions inside China, were there not, early on, about the degree of this. You had that crackdown on some of the first doctors and officials who raised a red flag about the virus, although China eventually turned it around. Are there questions among the Chinese public right now about the origin of this outbreak?</s>CULVER: Any sort of questions that surface now are quickly censored, if they're brought up on Chinese social media. But you're absolutely right, early on, and this is part of the broader narrative that has played out here, even with Chinese media, some of those with a more independent streak traditionally, were breaking stories about cover- up, silencing of whistleblowers and some of the dire need for medical supplies at the front lines. Medical personnel saying that they were going into battle so to speak, without armor. Something that was repeated in the U.S. and elsewhere just a few months later. But what has been portrayed here is that that was a local government misstep. And so it was the local government that was behind that cover-up. They have been pushed aside. The central government stepped in and, Jim, when that happened, all sort of questioning of how they handled it had stopped. And that has continued to be halted.</s>SCIUTTO: Well, we do know that China -- China's central government has enormous influence around the country, so we should question that line -- line argument, too. David Culver in Shanghai, Mike Rogers, always good to have both of you. For the first time, a national retailer says that the virus outbreak will force it into bankruptcy, while another gets ready to reopen its stores. But will shoppers -- and this is the key question -- be willing to come?