Catholic Church Changing Its Tone?; Imagine a World
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): In focus this weekend, the worldwide Roman Catholic Church works out how to be more inclusive. So will gays be welcomed instead of ostracized? A senior cardinal on a mission for Pope Francis speaks out.</s>CARDINAL DONALD WUERL, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON: A homosexual person, a person who has this orientation has the dignity of being who they are. And so the church is simply recognizing that.</s>AMANPOUR (voice-over): And later in the program, they are the men and women on the front lines not in uniform, but armed with cameras and notebooks, documenting war crimes. We introduce you to the E-Team.</s>AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the special weekend edition of our program. I'm Christiane Amanpour. Who am I to judge? The pope's simple but revolutionary words a year ago causing a pastoral earthquake now, says a long-time veteran Vatican watcher. Church dogma on homosexuality, divorce, communion and relationships are being thoroughly aired out at the Vatican in a special synod on the family, which has been called by Pope Francis. This week Cardinal Donald Wuerl of Washington, D.C., told us what all this could mean for the world's 1.2 billion Catholics. And his voice carries, as he is one of a handful of prelates who've been entrusted by the pope with sending him the final report. When Francis began his papacy 19 months ago, he made clear from the very start that he favored mercy, compassion, greater acceptance and a warmer welcome for everyone. Embattled conservative bishops are now warning against sliding down the slippery slope of more tolerance and straying away from traditional teachings. So we asked Cardinal Wuerl to tell us what's happening in those hallowed halls and what all this Vatican mulling will really mean for the faithful.</s>AMANPOUR: Cardinal Wuerl, thank you so much for joining me from Rome.</s>WUERL: It's a great pleasure. Thank you for having me.</s>AMANPOUR: This is an amazing time. We seem to be hearing a lot of monumental change possibly coming from where you are standing right now. Is that the case? How do you describe what you're all discussing now?</s>WUERL: The way the synod began was the invitation from Pope Francis to open our hearts, open our minds and speak very, very freely. And then he said, and then to listen, to listen humbly, listen to one another and listen to the Holy Spirit. But he also -- and I think this is very important for us to remember - - he also said, "This is the beginning of a process." So whatever we're saying and struggling with together and searching to find creative ways to be pastorally present, none of this is definitive. We're all trying to find the best path to follow. That's why I find this so exciting. There's an openness. There's a creativity but all of this is within the framework of: what has the church always held?</s>AMANPOUR: So then let me ask you because there are obviously hot button issues that many, many people around the world, particularly practicing Catholics, want to understand where you all now stand. So the interim report -- or at least the reports about the interim report -- states that gay people have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community. Is that a new stance? Because obviously, in the past, homosexuality was considered a disordered state, a mentally, you know, disordered state.</s>WUERL: If you take what you're reading in this interim-interim report, it's saying what the catechism of the Catholic Church also says, that every person has a dignity all of their own, a worth, a value, a God- given dignity. And a person, a homosexual person, a person who has this orientation has the dignity of being who they are. And so the church is simply recognizing that and saying it today in a way that perhaps is being better heard. One of the -- one of the efforts of this synod is to help us formulate the teaching of the church and most particularly the openness, the welcome of the church, the outreach of the church in a way that is actually being heard by the people we're trying to reach. And I think that's what you're seeing in the language, not so much a change in the teaching of the church, but a way of saying it that is far more inviting, far more welcoming.</s>AMANPOUR: I can hear you voicing a huge amount of caution. There does seem to be some quite sharp divisions between members of the synod. Some of the Catholic bishops there are saying that what's going on is not what we're saying at all. It's not a true message. Others are saying it advances positions which synod fathers do not accept; a great number of synod fathers found it objectionable regarding some of what came out about homosexuality or about cohabitation.</s>WUERL: I think what we need to do is we need to separate what actually is being said from what's being said about what's being said. And where I think we are right now in the synod is we're at a point where we have yet to reach a formulation that has been presented to everybody to even take the first pass at. What we have is simply an echoing of everything that was heard. And when you open up the discussion and you try to be creative and you try to be as inviting as possible, some of the language may sound a bit jarring to some people. That may not be the language that we all settle upon in the end. My caution would be -- and I think it's a legitimate caution of the synod -- give the process a chance. Give it a possibility to work its way through so that we don't settle on any given word at any given time and say this is the final word. The process has just begun. Remember we still have another synod to conclude this in 2015. So we're going to be at this for a while.</s>AMANPOUR: Exactly. And you bring me to the next point, which is that you are going to be one of those cardinals writing the final report that you will present to the pope. Do you believe the final report will and should be made public?</s>WUERL: I think that when we -- what we conclude with is something that really will probably be made public because it's going to be the report on the next step. It's going to be the paper that we'll use for the next step in the process. I suspect that whatever is finally produced is going to be made public. There doesn't seem to be any effort so far to keep any of these things from being public.</s>AMANPOUR: May I ask you about the very hot button issue of divorce? Communion and so-called living in sin, let me ask you first of all, divorced couples now cannot remarry inside the church and they're not allowed to have communion if they remarry outside the church, in civil services. Will that at all change in the final document, by the time the final document is made?</s>WUERL: I wish I could give you an answer to that. But I don't know what the final document is going to say. The final document of this whole process isn't going to exist until the process is done. And our Holy Father said that process won't conclude until the end of the 2015 synod. But what we're looking at is it's true. As part of the received teaching of the church, as part of what the gospel says, we are not permitted to divorce and remarry. But what does that mean in the life of individuals? And what does that mean in the -- in relation to their sacramental life? That's what we're just beginning to talk about. I don't know what the answer, the final answer will be because we haven't gotten anywhere near that part, that point in this ongoing discussion. But the fact remains, the teaching remains that marriage is indissoluble and that goes all the way back to Jesus telling us marriage is not able to be dissolved by human beings.</s>AMANPOUR: What about what is colloquially known in the church as living in sin, cohabitation? Apparently the interim report suggested that pastors should recognize that there are, quote, "positive aspects of civil unions and cohabitation." Where do you come down on that?</s>WUERL: Well, I think we have to begin with the recognition this is going on all around us, that this is a fact of life. And so if you're going to reach out to people, if you're going to go and meet people where they are in the condition in which they are living, you have to recognize what is that condition. We now need to talk about where would Christ want you to be, where would the Lord ask you to be in light of His gospel, in light of His teachings? And that's, I think, what was meant when we said there are some positive aspects. At least try to meet the person where they are and then walk with them.</s>AMANPOUR: Cardinal Donald Wuerl, thank you so much for joining us from just near the Vatican there, on a windy day.</s>WUERL: You're very welcome. Thank you for having the opportunity to be with you.</s>AMANPOUR: And now from doctrinal front lines to battlefield trenches, meet the real-life action heroes who go to watch out for human rights. A Netflix latest, a true reality show -- when we come back.