French President Hollande on Syria; Sounding the Alarm on Terror in Africa; Imagine a World
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour. The diplomatic world is abuzz with the possibility that this could be the moment to chart a new course between the United States, the West and Iran. The new Iranian president, Hassan Rouhani, has arrived to join world leaders, taking the podium at the annual United Nations General Assembly right here in New York. He vows to present what he calls the true face of Iran. And everyone wants to know whether his overtures mark an actual change in substance as well as in style after eight antagonistic years of his predecessor, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. President Obama in his address to the assembly earlier today said that he was, quote, "encouraged" that the Iranian people had given President Rouhani a mandate for more moderate course. And President Obama said that he had instructed his secretary of state, John Kerry, to lead negotiations with Iran on the nuclear issue. And I also sit down with Mr. Rouhani after his address to explore the possibility of a new way forward. I'll have that interview on this program tomorrow. But tonight, my exclusive interview with French President Francois Hollande. I spoke to him as he prepared for his U.N. address about what he hopes to hear from Rouhani when they meet here on the nuclear issue and on ending the war in Syria. I also asked Mr. Hollande about France's role in combating terror in Africa because among the many victims of that brazen attack in Kenya are two French citizens. I asked about France's robust intervention around the world including Syria.</s>AMANPOUR: Mr. President, welcome to New York. Welcome to our program. Thank you for joining me.</s>PRES.  FRANCOIS HOLLANDE, FRANCE (speaking French): Thank you for your invitation.</s>AMANPOUR: France was very proactive, calling for Assad to step down, even agreeing -- you agreed to go militarily to deal with the horror of the chemical attack of August 21st. What is your reaction now that the U.S. didn't go, the British and the U.S. decided to turn it over to their elected parliaments and they didn't get the go-ahead. But you were prepared to go. Do you think there should have been punishment for the attack on August 21st, the chemical attack?</s>HOLLANDE (through translator): France was ready. I said it -- as I said, to punish, to sanction the Syrian regime, given that they used chemical weapons and it is because there was this pressure from the U.S., from France. Now the Russians took the initiative to look for an agreement. This agreement has been done. It now enables us to consider a different solution, different than the military solution that we considered. This solution is a resolution by the U.N. Security Council in the coming days that should enable us to implement the agreement signed between the U.S. and the Russians on this issue of chemical weapons, that is the destruction of the chemical stockpiles.</s>AMANPOUR: Should there be a military component? Should it be enforceable by military action if they don't comply? Will France go for a military component to the resolution?</s>HOLLANDE (through translator): A resolution without sanctions whatsoever, a resolution that would not consider any answer to a breach by the Syrian regime in terms of the control and the destruction of chemical weapons, this would have no scope whatsoever, no punch. So France is looking for a resolution that must be binding, enforceable, so that in case of a breach, we can could go back to the Security Council and allow it to take sanctions. So, yes, the resolution, a quick one, yes, we would like the agreement between the U.S. and the Russians to be translated, this agreement in order to destroy chemical weapons, but with a requirement, a requirement for a sanction in case of breach.</s>AMANPOUR: Well, the U.S. doesn't seem to be going for that. Everything it says seems to be that it's not going to ask for a military or a coercive component. The Russians say they don't want that. Do you think there will be a veto?</s>HOLLANDE (through translator): No. All we have to do is to hold the Russians accountable. They have to stick to what they said. They said there would be implementation, control of the chemical weapons and that they must be indeed a possibility of returning to Chapter 7 (ph). But we may not need to turn to Chapter 7 (ph) immediately. What we need is the possibility of this sanction in case of a breach on behalf of the Syrian regime. So I believe that the solution that we're putting forward, which is a demanding solution, and it means to have -- the Security Council must be in a position to act and to adopt sanctions if there is a breach. We also need to make sure now those responsible can be referred to justice. All of that has to be in the next resolution and both the Russians and the U.S. can see in that solution the implementation of the agreement that they've signed.</s>AMANPOUR: France seems to be very forward leaning. I am going to use other people's language, not mine. During the time of the Iraq War, France was called "cheese-eating surrender monkeys." I'm sorry, that's not my -- not my term. French fries were called "freedom fries." Your policy seems to be a real reversal of what was going on during the Iraq War. You seem to be really willing to project French power where you think it's necessary around the world. Why is that? And do you feel that you're filling a gap, as the United States sort of moves back a little bit?</s>HOLLANDE (through translator): But France doesn't want to get involved in any kind of adventure or initiative. I was proud that my country did not take part to what happened in Iraq. I considered this was not our role and that there was no truth about the weapons of mass destruction. But here we're talking about 120,000 people dead in two and a half years, 2 million refugees, 18,000 dead in a year, also adding to one another, the forces of the regime, al Qaeda, as well, which is now in Syria. And in the middle, the democratic coalition which cannot find a political solution. So it is urgent that we act. Of course it is about fighting the use of chemical weapons, as will be done at the Security Council anytime soon. But it is also about finding a political solution. And the role of France is not to apply conditions all around the world. We have no intent of influencing or defending commercial or trade interests. What we are fighting for are those principles, values. This is what gives France its specificity (ph) in the international family. So what I am fighting for regarding Syria is a political solution. But if they're not, with necessary pressure and but all the threats regarding the use of chemical weapons, we would not be where we are. So we will sort out the issue of chemical weapons within a couple of days. But we cannot satisfy ourselves with that single solution. We have to find a political solution in order to put an end to what is the worst massacre since the beginning of the century.</s>AMANPOUR: Iran is an actor. Iran, by all accounts, has military personnel inside Syria, helping and directing the war on behalf of President Assad. You will meet President Rouhani today. What are you going to tell him about Syria, about Iran's role in a political solution? What are the conditions? What does Iran have to agree to?</s>HOLLANDE (through translator): We all know the bond between Iran and the Syrian regime. So we need to talk to Iran. Even more so, given that President Rouhani made a number of gestures, maybe not overtly so far, but it is some sort of an opening regarding Syria, we'll be telling him that we should work on in Geneva to conference. The only purpose will be to organize the political solution, the transition that he's putting in place an interim government, that should include all the forces that will build the Syria of tomorrow. And even he can attend the conference, if that country agrees to the necessity of finding a political solution. And it is also in Iran's interests not to be isolated because of Syria as well.</s>AMANPOUR: And that includes Iran having to agree to what the conference calls for, and that is eventually President Assad stepping down and moving out, moving away from the political dynamic? So Iran has to agree to that?</s>HOLLANDE (through translator): The purpose of Geneva, as we have said, is that Bashar al-Assad can go and that there is a government that would represent all the Syrian components, all political forces willing to build the Syria of tomorrow, so that all of that can be put in place. So if Iran agrees upon that goal, Iran is welcome. On the other hand, if Iran wants, at any price, to keep the regime in place, I cannot imagine how this country could attend Geneva 2.</s>AMANPOUR: Let me ask you about Bashar al-Assad. Again, you, the French yourself, the British prime minister, the American president, Barack Obama, for two years have been saying Bashar al-Assad must go. You've said it again now. But isn't Bashar al-Assad necessary? Isn't he actually going to have to stay in order to resolve this chemical weapons deal? Is he not now inevitably a partner in getting rid of these chemical weapons?</s>HOLLANDE (through translator): Syria is the partner. It is Syria today which holds chemical weapons and must destroy them. A couple of days ago, both in the American and the French press, Bashar al-Assad was saying that he didn't have chemical weapons, there were no such weapons in Syria. And now, he says there are. So he cannot be a trustworthy partner for many months. It cannot be an opportunity for Bashar al-Assad to stay as the leader of Syria. This issue, dealing with the chemical weapons, must also be a step to allow for the political solution, that is a government that represents all of the Syrian communities. I believe that we cannot use the chemical agreement in order to maintain this regime.</s>AMANPOUR: And on the issue of nuclear program with Iran, where do you see the possibility of compromise? Can there be a win-win situation? Is this a last chance, do you think, for some kind of resolution of this crisis, really?</s>HOLLANDE (through translator): It's been ongoing for 10 years. The negotiations have been in a deadlock for 10 years. And each day, each extra day is an extra threat in terms of the answer that will come at some point. And we have to keep that in mind. The new president made a number of statements which I find of opening, development. And I think that, here again, we have to be hold him to his word. And I'll -- when I see him today, I will be telling him a simple thing: if Iran is willing to be negotiate, to give up on its military nuclear program they get a single (ph) nuclear program to be accepted, then there is a possible solution. On the other hand, if the deadlock remains, what will happen, more and more sanctions, burdensome for the Iranian economy and, at some point, the threat of an operation. We all are aware of that. So from that point, starting point, it is reasonable to find a compromise. So the Iranian president has to move from words to deeds.</s>AMANPOUR: And as I said earlier, tomorrow on this program, my interview with the Iranian president, Hassan Rouhani. Back in Tehran, the Jewish community -- small, but nonetheless, the largest in the region outside of Israel -- is celebration the festival of Sukkoth with song and prayer and a new sense of optimism, not only because President Rouhani wished them a Happy New Year on Rosh Hashanah, but also knowing that Iran's only Jewish member of parliament is traveling with him to the U.N., something that would have been unthinkable when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was president. Now when we come back, I have more of my interview with President Hollande. I dig into his reasons for an assertive foreign policy, terror and Africa, next.