Shutdown Approaches in Just Hours; Interview with Senator Bernie Sanders; Senate Democrats Meeting Soon; White House Urgently Scrambles To Avert Shutdown Trying To Sway Senators' Votes
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: It is indeed. Thank you so much, Bill Weir. And thanks to all of you for joining us. "AC 360" starts now.</s>ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Get ready. Two clocks are ticking right now. One to a Senate vote, a first step toward preventing government shutdown, the other to the shutdown itself. At 10:00 Eastern Time tonight the Senate holds a procedural vote to end debate on a temporary spending bill. It needs 60 votes to succeed. And that's only to get to the real up or down vote. In any case, at one second after midnight, if there is no legislation, the government officially shuts down. As you might imagine, this has real world consequences for millions of people, not to mention political fallout for everyone involved in Washington. Tonight we'll be covering all aspects as the vote and the shutdown approach tonight. I want to start at the capital with CNN's Phil Mattingly. So Senate Democrats will meet behind closed doors in just a few minutes. What are your sources saying to expect from that meeting?</s>PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, this will be the first meeting of Senate Democrats today, one we've expected for a while given where things were actually headed. And basically what I've been told is it will be a couple of things. It will be an update on where things stand. It'd be the first meeting since Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer met with President Trump at the White House. Those talks, I'm told, between Schumer's team and the White House have continued since. It will also be kind of an update on pathways forward, potential pathways forward, perhaps off ramps to the situation that they're currently in. But I think most importantly perhaps it will be a gut check. There's no question about it, Anderson. This meeting coming just 90 minutes before that vote comes as Democrats are pretty clear, at least according to several sources that I have spoken with, that they still have the votes to prevent Senate majority leading Mitch McConnell from getting the 60 votes he needs to move forward. That would be this vote that's scheduled at 10:00 p.m. is most certainly going to fail at this point. And after that there is no clear resolution forward. Now Democrats have said they're steadfast. They remain united. They aren't moving off where they've been, that this is the real time, Anderson. There's no more talk about what could happen, it's now happening and they're going to have to decide whether or not to actually go through with it -- Anderson.</s>COOPER: Right. So the vote that we're talking about, that we've been waiting for since last night, now set to happen at 10:00 p.m., is it -- is it really going to fail? I mean, that's based right now on what Democrats are saying they have the votes to make it fail.</s>MATTINGLY: Yes, purely in the numbers game, absolutely the answer is yes. But you've got two Republicans that certainly will vote no, another one who's considering voting no. You've only got three Democrats out of the 49 in the chamber who have said they are willing to vote yes on this, so far we expect a couple of more to join them. But given that there are only 50 Republicans in attendance right now they obviously need more than just three. And they need probably 12, 13, maybe even 14 depending on how things play out. As of this moment it's pretty clear in both chambers right now that that -- those votes don't exist. Now the big question right now is, Anderson, is there some kind of shorter term compromise, perhaps a three-week continuing resolution that can be put up instead. I'm told at the moment Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell is not considering that. He has been very clear throughout the last couple of days there is a House passed bill. It is four-week extension of government funding. It is a six-year extension of the Children's Health Insurance Program. That is what's on the table. That is what has always been on the table and anything else Democrats are looking for, that hasn't been negotiable. Now has that shifted throughout the last couple of hours because of the talks with President Trump, it's still somewhat of an open question. But at this point, Anderson, heading into this vote, there doesn't appear to be an alternative on the table. There certainly doesn't appear to be any deal within an air-term reach, and by all accounts right now, things are very much headed to a shutdown at midnight.</s>COOPER: All right, Phil Mattingly. Phil, I want to go quickly now to the White House and CNN's Jim Acosta. So I understand the president has been actively involved in the process today even at this hour. What are you hearing?</s>JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He has been, Anderson. As you saw he met with the Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer earlier today. He was on the phone with the House Speaker Paul Ryan later on in the afternoon. But just to echo what Phil Mattingly was saying, there is some skepticism over here, over at the White House as to whether or not they could reach a deal sometime tonight. I talked to a senior White House official earlier this evening who are saying, they were saying smoke signals coming out of the capital. In the words of that official, smoke signals coming out of the capital. But they were mainly looking at some of those red state Democrats who are starting to signal that they would vote yes, like Joe Donnelly out of Indiana. You saw Heidi Heitkamp and now they are also putting pressure on some of these other endangered red state Democrats like Jon Tester and Claire McCaskill. The White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders has been tweeting at them in the last couple of hours saying, you know, get on board with some of these other Democrats who are thinking about voting with the Republicans. But, Anderson, I just talk to a White House official in just the last few minutes about whether or not there might be the chance for some kind of alternative plan beyond this four-week CR that official was saying that is not likely to pass the House so what Phil Mattingly was saying is exactly right. This is turning into a Tide pod kind of night. Nobody really wants to swallow a compromise in this city tonight -- Anderson.</s>COOPER: That meeting with Chuck Schumer, I mean, did it produce any results? Did anything actually come out of it?</s>ACOSTA: Well, you know, the president tweeted earlier today that it was an excellent preliminary meeting, but that obviously did not go anywhere. We're going to have to see what happens when Democrats get together in about a half an hour from now but at this point and I just talked to a source up on Capitol Hill a few moments ago, and this is echoing what Phil Mattingly was saying. They don't believe there are enough Democratic defections at this point to get that continuing resolution over the finish line that was passed out of the House. And if that does not happen then they're in search of a plan B. And as I was just saying a White House official over here was being very plain about this. They don't think that the House is going to go for a short-term continuing resolution. So at this point, they are running out of options and they're running out of time -- Anderson.</s>COOPER: Jim Acosta, thanks very much. With us now is former Democratic presidential candidate and Vermont independent senator, Bernie Sanders. Senator Sanders, as of right now are you a no vote on the continuing resolution as it stands?</s>SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Yes. I think what is going on to me is very clear that the Republicans really want to shut down the government for whatever reason. Where we are, Anderson, is not complicated. As you know, in the United States Senate you need 60 votes to pass this budget resolution. Mitch McConnell doesn't have 60. He doesn't have it. He knows he doesn't have it. The option that he has now is to say, OK, I don't have the 60 votes, let us sit down and negotiate, let us work in a nonpartisan way to address the crisis facing this country. Last night, you may have heard this, we've received a tweet from the Pentagon and what the Pentagon told us is they need a fully funded fiscal year 2018 budget or face ramifications for our military. This is the Pentagon. They cannot function on a month-to-month basis. We are a $4 trillion government. We need to have an annual budget because what is going on now is very, very dangerous and wasteful for our country. Many, many crises that have not even been addressed. We cannot keep kicking the can down the road.</s>COOPER: You know, the Republicans obviously and the White House is saying well, look, it's the Democrats who seem to want to shut down that by forcing the issue on immigration, on</s>DACA. SANDERS: No.</s>COOPER: Which is something that could be done --</s>SANDERS: No. That's not true. That is not true. Here again is the situation. And let the viewers make their decision. Mitch McConnell does not have 60 votes. And if he goes forward tonight at 10:00 as I understand he will, he will lose. Therefore the government will shut down. Understanding that, what a rational person who does not want to shut down the government does is say OK, I don't have the 60 vote, I can't do it alone with the Republicans, we have to sit down and negotiate. What do you want? Let's go forward. That is what has to happen. But unfortunately for whatever reason, I mean, they may think politically that a shutdown works to their benefit. You remember way back when, the president, Donald Trump, was talking about how maybe the country needs a good government shutdown. I don't know. But I think it will be a very unfortunate thing. McConnell has got to start negotiating. And it's not just about DACA. We have -- we are three and a half months into the fiscal year. Three and a half months we still don't have an annual budget. You know what means? It means 27 million people and community health centers have not received refunding -- new funding authorization. It means that 30,000 vacancies at the Veteran's Administration are still not filled. It means we have a heroin and opioid epidemic sweeping this country we are not addressing. We have a collapsing infrastructure we are not addressing it. So we have real work to do. And we can't simply have a dysfunctional government which doesn't address our problems and passes a continuing resolution month by month by month.</s>COOPER: So you think --</s>SANDERS: That is not what we're paid to do.</s>COOPER: If Mitch McConnell did come and say, OK, look, we don't the votes, let's negotiate, it would be -- the points you would want or DACA and a more permanent budgetary solution.</s>SANDERS: And a disaster relief. Do you know that right now four months after the terrible hurricanes in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, Texas -- in Puerto Rico you have tens of thousands of people who still don't have electricity. We're the wealthiest country in the history of the world. So what we need to do is to figure out a way as to how we're going to address the problems facing working families, how we're going to deal with disaster relief. How we're going to adequately fund the military. Last night a poll came out. And what the poll -- it was a CBS poll. It said 87 percent of the American people believe that we should provide legal status to the 800,000 Dreamers in this country. 87 percent of the American people. An astronomical number and yet after three and a half months of this fiscal year, the Republican leadership has not been serious about addressing the crisis facing the Dreamers.</s>COOPER: Well, the White House says look, the Democrats are hurting children if the government shut downs because there is funding for CHIP, for the Children's Health Insurance Program, something Democrats have wanted for a long time.</s>SANDERS: You know, the cynicism here has no end. Three and a half months into the fiscal year, they have not funded the CHIP program which if brought to the floor three and a half months ago would have probably got 90 or 100 votes. The community health center program. One out of four people in my state of Vermont get their primary health care through community health centers. This program is like 50 years old. It is supported by Democrats. It's supported by Democrats. It is supported by Republicans. They haven't reauthorized that program. So we have many issues out there that have got to be dealt with and all that we are saying is to the Republican leadership, you control the House, the Senate and the White House, govern. Govern. Don't keep passing these one-month continuing resolutions which the Pentagon -- it is really the Pentagon, it is hurting so many aspects of our country. And once again, once again, Mitch McConnell knows right now he does not have the votes and if he goes forward and he loses, it is Mitch McConnell and our Republican colleagues who are shutting down this government.</s>COOPER: So that is your message to federal workers who may not be getting a paycheck if there's a shutdown tonight, that -- because I mean, I should point out members of Congress still get paid unlike those federal workers. But you say it's Mitch McConnell's fault, it's the Republicans' fault.</s>SANDERS: Let me repeat. He does not have the votes. He knows he does not have the votes. Why do you go forward and losing rather than sitting down and negotiating an agreement in a bipartisan way? And here's the good news, when you talk about disaster relief, I think we can reach an agreement pretty quickly. When 87 percent of the American people support legal status for the Dreamers in a path towards citizenship, I think we can reach an agreement. There's good legislation that has been brought forth by Senator Durbin and Senator Graham. We can reach an agreement in terms of how much we spend on the military and how much we spend on the needs -- the domestic needs of working families. I believe that if you bring people together in a few days you can address these crises. But we can't do it unless there is negotiations, and the Republicans cannot simply say, here it is, you take it or leave it. That is not the way that we can run the government.</s>COOPER: You mentioned a poll a second ago. I want to show you a new CNN poll today. It says 31 percent of people would blame Democrats for the a shutdown. Does that concern you?</s>SANDERS: Sure it does. Look, you know, I don't want a shutdown. I think a shutdown is bad for millions of people who depend on government services, certainly bad for federal employees. It is -- you know, it is a bad, bad thing. And that's why I hope that the Republicans understand that they have to negotiate and they just cannot do whatever they want.</s>COOPER: Mick Mulvaney, who's the director of the Office of Management and Budget, he cited you today in a briefing, quoting something you said about a shutdown back in 2013. I just want to play that for our viewers.</s>MICK MULVANEY, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: Bernie Sanders, one of my favorites, what they are saying -- by the way, it was of me back in 2013, of the group that was trying to figure out a way to force a debate on Obamacare repeal. What they are saying to the American people tonight is maybe we have lost the presidential election, maybe we have lost seats in the Senate and the House. This is Sanders talking in 2013. It doesn't matter, we can now bring the government to a shutdown, throw some 800,000 hardworking Americans out on the street. We are going to get our way no matter what. This is exactly what they accuse the Republicans are doing back in 2013.</s>COOPER: How do you respond to that?</s>SANDERS: Well, let me respond. What Mr. Mulvaney is talking about is his desire to repeal Obamacare when President Obama was the president. Not very likely. So what they would do is shutting down the government to throw tens of millions of Americans off of health care which is terrible unto himself but obviously Barack Obama was not about to repeal Obamacare. What we are talking about today is to address the crisis facing Dreamers. This was a crisis precipitated by President Trump when he rescinded Obama's executive order. You have hundreds of thousands of young people frightened to death about their future, whether or not they're in fact going to lose their legal status and whether they would be suggested to deportation. This is a little bit different, I think, than repealing Obamacare.</s>CAMEROTA: And just lastly, the meeting tonight at 8:30 with Senate Democrats, I'm wondering what you expect to come of it, what you hope to hear or expecting?</s>SANDERS: Honestly, Anderson, I really don't know. I'm very anxious to get down there and see what will be discussed. I just don't know.</s>COOPER: Are you saying you want to end the interview? I'm kidding.</s>SANDERS: I'm delighted to talk to you.</s>COOPER: No, no, no. You've got to go to the meeting. Senator Sanders, I appreciate your time. Thank you.</s>SANDERS: OK. Thank you very much.</s>COOPER: We're going to be following late developments live obviously throughout the next two hours and long into the night on CNN. This is a rally for DACA young people, Dreamers, at the Capitol happening. Coming up next, see who Donald Trump once thought should get the blame for a government shutdown versus who he now thinks should get the blame. That and new polling on who voters say they'll actually blame. We'll show you part of it ahead. Later, Citizen Trump, Candidate Trump, and the alleged porn star payoff. See how one reporter followed the money that led to a blockbuster story that would be toxic to, well, frankly, pretty much any other president.