Bin Laden Calls for Revenge for Gaza, Revels in Recession; Congress Discusses Releasing Bailout Funds
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Kyra Phillips.</s>OSAMA BIN LADEN, LEADER OF AL QAEDA (through translator): They're now drowning in a global financial crisis. They're even begging all nations, small and large, for help.</s>KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST (voice-over): And that's music to the ears of Osama bin Laden. In a new address, the world's most wanted terrorist revels in America's recession and demands revenge for Gaza. A surreal moment in Springfield: the scandal-ridden Illinois governor ushers in the Senate that will be his judge and jury in less than two weeks.</s>PHILLIPS: And hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. A lot going on today. The governor of Illinois swearing in state senators this hour. Ever seen the condemned buy a rope for the hangman? Well, that could be what's going on, in a political sense, anyway, today. And the Bernard Madoff scandal might involve more money, but this financial guy is getting just as much attention. Let's just say, D.B. Cooper he ain't. Plus love stinks, love bites, love hurts, all song titles that ring true for us at one time or another. Is there an anti-love potion No. 9 out there to protect your heart like no beta blocker can? Wait until you see that story. But first, Osama bin Laden in his own words, we think. There's never any way to absolutely verify these audio clips from oblivion. But a new one has turned up on Islamist Web sites, and it's quite a rant. For 22 minutes the al Qaeda figurehead demands holy war against Israel's war in Gaza and celebrates the U.S. economic meltdown. Take a listen.</s>BIN LADEN (through translator): America won't be able to carry on its war against us for several decades longer. Reports indicate that 75 percent of Americans are happy to see the current president leave office, because he dragged them into unnecessary wars and drowned them into a financial abyss. Bush leaves a successor with a worse inheritance: two long guerrilla wars and no options. He either withdraws and faces military defeat or carries on the fight and drowns his nation in financial trouble.</s>PHILLIPS: All right. So here is what we want to know now. Is Osama bin Laden still relevant? Is he still a leading force in global terror? If not, it doesn't really matter where he is or whether he's dead or alive. If he is relevant, what's next in the search? President-elect Obama has long accused the Bush administration of skimping on the search for bin Laden to carry out the war in Iraq. Now, to one degree or another, Osama bin Laden has been a U.S. target since Bill Clinton was president. We do have video that we're going to take a look at back from 2000. And it actually shows bin Laden in the sights of a U.S. military spy plane, which leads to the question why didn't President Clinton execute that order to take him out, then, a year before the 9/11 attacks? Because now the world's most wanted terrorist is still alive, and he's still ahead of al Qaeda. And the Bush administration had him trapped during the invasion of Afghanistan. What happened? Each time he slipped away. Joining us on the phone to talk about all this and bin Laden's latest audiotape message, CNN contributor and terrorism expert Fran Townsend. Fran, you know, it's so hard to swallow the fact that President Clinton had an opportunity to take Osama bin Laden out. We've seen the video. The video exists. We see him in the sights of the spy plane. And it's hard to really kind of contemplate what life would have been like if he would have been taken out. There wouldn't have been a 9/11?</s>FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That's right, Kyra. It's good to be with you. I'll tell you, it's frustrating. Imagine the frustration for the hundreds and thousands of folks who lost a loved one on 9/11. But I will tell you, you know, the world changed on 9/11, and the whole country, including the administration, wound up with a different perspective on just how deadly the terrorist threat was. And so, I mean, I think this is a continuing frustration, not only for former Clinton administration officials, and I served in that administration, but Bush administration officials, as well. And unfortunately, I think that it will be a high priority for the incoming administration. But this is a very difficult search. We believe that -- you know, terrorism experts believe that bin Laden is in the tribal areas between Pakistan and Afghanistan, which has been an ungoverned space going back to Alexander Great. You know, there's a sovereign line there. There's a drawn line that's not recognized by anyone except the government of Pakistan. And it's very difficult for the Pakistani government, much less American officials, to get up there and really do -- have this search on the ground with people. They don't welcome outsiders, and it's difficult territory in addition.</s>PHILLIPS: So Fran, I mean, you were a security adviser to the Bush administration. So knowing what you know about intelligence and about Osama bin Laden and the surge for Osama bin Laden, do you think now, if Barack Obama has a chance to take out bin Laden, actually get him in the sights of a military aircraft, will he order, "Yes, take the shot. Take him out," no matter what?</s>TOWNSEND: Look, I think the current president, President Bush would do that if he had the opportunity, and I believe that President- elect Obama will do it. The question, you know, there's a bunch -- it's never that easy. You wind up with how many civilian casualties will there be? How certain are you that the intelligence, even imagery, you've got the right guy, it's not somebody who just looks like him? What will the consequences be? Will you potentially tumble the government, the Democratically-elected government of Pakistan? What will the impact be on the stability of Afghanistan? There are a number of questions that policymakers have got to ask other than just a simple yes or no, take him out. But I do believe that if there's -- if there as a good shot and the intelligence is solid. And we've seen instances where intelligence has not been so good. But if the intelligence is solid, I think any sitting president would order that shot.</s>PHILLIPS: Well, let's hope that that does happen. Sooner the best.</s>TOWNSEND: Absolutely.</s>PHILLIPS: Fran Townsend, thanks so much. Appreciate it.</s>TOWNSEND: Sure. Bye-bye.</s>PHILLIPS: Well, here with me on some more insight on what's believed to be bin Laden's latest audiotape message, CNN senior editor for Arab affairs, Octavia Nasr. And let me ask you just -- bin Laden, how -- how crucial is he within al Qaeda right now? Is he really leading al Qaeda? Is he the leader? Is he the one that everyone is looking to when it comes to carrying out any type of terrorist activity, at this point?</s>OCTAVIA NASR, CNN EDITOR FOR ARAB AFFAIRS: Well, you know, he is still the leader of al Qaeda. That's very important. He's still the leader of al Qaeda. His No. 2 man, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is still at large. They're both still leading al Qaeda. What's changed is that al Qaeda itself is not the al Qaeda that we've known in '98. For example, when the attacks on the U.S. embassies were carried out in Africa. It's not the same al Qaeda that also carried out 9/11. So al Qaeda itself is now more of a franchise. Any little neighborhood can have a mini al Qaeda that can go out and attack and basically claim a responsibility to al Qaeda, because they pledged allegiance to bin Laden and others. So he remains the leader of al Qaeda. What changed is his relevance. While he is not relevant in the sense that he's not ordering the charge, he's not ordering attacks. He's not the mastermind of attacks. He's symbolically important and relevant, and that's what we get when we watch, for example, audio message that came in on radical Islamic Web sites. You see people joining in. They start cheering him on. And basically, if the message is to recruit people to go kill themselves and perform jihad, the holy war, against the crusaders -- what they call the crusaders -- and anyone who aids them in the region, they're following his orders and doing as he said. So symbolically, yes, he is relevant, experts say. But as far as attacks are concerned, can this man right now, with this message, send a signal for an attack? Experts tell us that is not the case.</s>PHILLIPS: So it's not necessarily that -- it's not that he is leading al Qaeda and leading attacks. This is basically the bin Laden inspirational audiotape for all terrorists.</s>NASR: It is propaganda. It is meant as propaganda. He basically is not calling for any attacks. He's saying people should be performing their duty of holy war to defend Gaza. He also boasts about his personal achievements and his men's achievements. He talks -- he does give a clear indication that he is alive, that he's well and that he's well-informed about current affairs. He used quotes from Joe Biden to the French president, Sarkozy, to the -- some important figures, ministers in Spain and Germany. So basically, he's giving the message that he's alive, he's well, he's informed about current affairs. And he's still at large, which is really the significance of this message. While he might not be significant as al Qaeda leader, the significance is that, with all the efforts out there to capture this man or kill him, he's still at large and able to send these messages out.</s>PHILLIPS: Octavia, thanks. Well, President-elect Barack Obama has minced no words when talking about bin Laden. Here's what he said in an interview with Larry King back in August.</s>BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: If I had actionable intelligence, we would go after bin Laden.</s>LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": And bring him back here if possible?</s>OBAMA: Well, I think that we want to capture him or kill him. And as I've said, as I've just said this past weekend, if we capture him, then we would want to put him on trial. And I think he would be deserving of the death penalty.</s>PHILLIPS: Now it's your turn. Do you even care if bin Laden is ever captured? E-mail us your answers at CNNnewsroom@CNN.com. We'll read some in our next hour. Now, the transition to power. It's all about change, as you've probably heard. And here's a big one. Eric Shinseki is President- elect Obama's nominee for secretary of veteran affairs. He's a retired four-star Army general, the first Japanese-American ever to achieve that rank, by the way. And since 2003, he's been better known as the Army chief of staff who warned Congress it would take several hundred thousand soldiers to secure Iraq and was publicly contradicted by then Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Shinseki retired soon after, and today the nominee tells the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee he'll fight to clear out a logjam of disability claims and make health benefits available to more vets. Next hour, we're going to get the state of veteran affairs, according to retired three-star general Russel Honore. He never minces his words. That's at 3:15 p.m. Eastern right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. Now, the confirmation parade rolls on. As you know, this is former Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack, appearing before the committee that will consider him for agriculture secretary. And Lisa Jackson, the incoming president's pick for head of the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency. But the biggest news may come from two hearings that are not happening, at least not on the schedule. Treasury secretary nominee Timothy Geithner has some tax issues to explain. His hearing has been put off a week. And likewise for transportation secretary nominee Ray LaHood, a former Republican congressman. A Senate aide blames paperwork issues and denies reports that there may be problems over earmarks. Turning now to an issue which may directly impact you, the $700 billion bailout plan known as Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP for short, is under discussion on Capitol Hill. And at issue: Barack Obama's request that Congress release the remaining $350 billion in TARP money. CNN's Brianna Keilar joins us now live from the Hill -- Brianna.</s>BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, here's what it comes down to today. So many Americans detest, loathe, abhor this idea of this financial-market bailout, and they have made their opinions very clear to their members of Congress. We heard yesterday after that meeting with President-elect Obama and Senate Democrats, when he was trying to shore up support for this additional $350 billion to be released, we heard Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid say that he thought the votes were there to get this money released. But now, as it's apparent that some Democratic support has been eroding, it's also apparent that Republican support in the Senate has been eroding, as well. This is a bit of a white-knuckled experience for, of course, the Obama team, no doubt, as well as Democrats here, afraid they may not be able to deliver for the president-elect. One Senate Democratic aide saying, "We need Republicans to get this through." And because of that, you have some Republicans who have been against this bailout from the get-go seeing an opportunity.</s>SEN. JIM DEMINT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I think we do have a chance to stop it. There are a number of congressmen and senators who are on the fence. They've heard from their constituents during the holidays that they're tired of bailouts. They know we're in economic trouble, but they don't want to see the government print more money, borrow more money, and throw it around in ways we can't even anticipate.</s>KEILAR: Yesterday you saw President-elect Obama up here on the Hill reaching out to Senate Democrats. Today we're seeing that his team is reaching out to Senate Republicans. His incoming chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, and Larry Summers, one of president-elect's top economic advisers, meeting this afternoon with Senate Republicans, trying to get some support ahead of this vote on whether to release these funds or not. That vote could come tomorrow, Kyra, could come Friday. But bottom line, you have some folks here on the Hill saying, "Maybe is this is -- this may be the right thing to do, but it is certainly not a popular thing to do." And it's -- you know, we're waiting to see if there are enough votes.</s>PHILLIPS: All right. We'll be tracking it, of course. Thanks so much, Brianna. Well, talk about irony. The governor of Illinois is presiding over the swearing in of state senators. They're the ones who will decide whether he gets kicked out of office. Live pictures right now. We'll be following it. We'll bring you the highlights if it gets exciting. No doubt, it probably will. And there's almost no escaping it: the coldest weather in years sweeps into the U.S. from Canada. They'll even be shivering in Florida. We're going to tell you what you can expect.