Giuliani's Shifting Answers On Seeking Info On Ukrainian Oligarch; Ex- CIA Chief Pompeo Refuses To Dismiss Debunked Ukraine Claim
BALDWIN: Just into CNN, the president's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, contradicting himself again over how he sought dirt on the president's rivals from Ukrainian oligarchs. Just two days ago, Giuliani tweeted he did not talk with Ukrainian businessman, Dmitry Firtash. He also told CNN back in October that he has, quote, "nothing to do with him." But Giuliani just entirely contradicted that in a text message exchange with CNN. Andrew Kaczynski is our senior editor of "KFILE." Back up. Dmitry Firtash, remind us who he is. And what is Giuliani now saying?</s>ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN SENIOR EDITOR, "KFILE": Dmitry Firtash is a Ukrainian oligarch. He made his money in the gas industry. He is fighting extradition to the U.S. on unrelated bribery charges from 2013. Giuliani told us back in October, when we did a separate trip on Giuliani on a trip he took with his indicted associates to London, he said, I had nothing to do with Firtash. We asked because, during this trip, he spoke to a Ukrainian charity group. And a former spokesman for this oligarch was actually there. And he followed up with that saying he has been absent from Ukraine many years and never thought he had useful information for me related to 2016 or Joe Biden. What he told us now is completely different. He told us that he met with a lawyer for this oligarch for two hours in New York City where he sought information on collusion and corruption in Ukraine. So there's that conspiracy theory that Ukraine colluded in the 2016 election. And when we hear him talk about corruption, that's code for talking about the Bidens. Really interesting here is, he got a little angry when we asked him, you know, did you mislead me, and he said, "Horse</s>BALDWIN: That's what he said when you asked to explain the discrepancy?</s>KACZYNSKI: That was the first text message I received from him. We had a very long text exchange where we talked about, did he mislead me. I said, you told me you never sought information on this guy and you are now acknowledging this meeting, what's with the discrepancy.</s>BALDWIN: He's saying it's horse "you know what." What's your biggest takeaway?</s>KACZYNSKI: The takeaway from this is on sort of the bigger picture, how Giuliani was reaching out to all of these Ukraine-connected individuals, including this oligarch fighting extradition to the U.S., and actually ended up hitting some attorneys he knows very well, how he was reaching out to all of these folks to look into his campaign to get dirt on Joe Biden. And that sort of leads us all back to the impeachment thing and where we are now.</s>BALDWIN: Where we are now. Andrew Kaczynski, thank you for that. President Trump has also been known to push conspiracy theories, such as that Barack Obama wasn't born in the United States, and Ted Cruz's father as involved in the Kennedy assassination, that wind turbines cause cancer. To succeed in the Trump administration means agreeing with not openly disagreeing with or not openly disagreeing with Mr. Trump even when his pronouncements involving serious claims. Now Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is lending credence to the president's debunked conspiracy theory it was Russia -- excuse me -- saying it was Ukraine and not Russia that interfered with America's elections in 2016. Although he never mentions Ukraine explicitly in his latest remarks, Secretary Pompeo leaves the door open to his boss' interpretation.</s>MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Any time there's information that indicates that any country messed with American elections, we not only have a right but a duty to make sure we chase that down.</s>BALDWIN: CNN's Kylie Atwood has more on the significance of Secretary Pompeo's remarks. Kylie, in the past, he said he supported intelligence it was Russia who interfered. Intelligence that came from the CIA, which he used to be CIA chief. How is he trying to have it both ways?</s>KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Brooke, let's do a little comparison here to understand how the secretary of state, once the CIA director for the Trump administration, has evolved on this topic. So that quote you just played from the secretary yesterday, in which he left open the door to the possibility that Ukraine was the one who messed with the U.S. elections in 2016, he was specifically asked, does he thinks that the U.S. and Ukraine should be investigating the fact it was Ukraine and not Russia, OK -- given the chance there -- who hacked the 2016 DNC server and release those emails? That is when he gave that answer that you played, leaving the door open to the possibility that it was Ukraine. Back in 2017, he discussed this specifically. He was then the CIA director. He had seen the intelligence that all -- completely made the case that it was Russia that interfered in the elections. I want to read what he said. He said, "In January of this year" -- this was Pompeo speaking in 2017 -- "our Intelligence Community determined Russian military intelligence has used WikiLeaks to release data against the DNC committee." There, clearly saying it was Russia. Yesterday, not squarely saying it was Russia. This is really important. We have to consider what is at stake here. President Trump is coming out again getting behind this debunked theory that Ukraine was behind any of this meddling. But we have seen U.S. officials go before Congress in the past few weeks and call that a totally fictitious narrative.</s>BALDWIN: It was Russia. It was Russia. It was Russia. Kylie Atwood, thank you for that. Disturbing news about living and dying in the United States. Average life expectancy is dropping, and not as many new Americans are being born. Why we're no longer keeping up with other high-income countries. That's next.