President Trump Consumed By Cohen Investigation?; Men Arrested at Philadelphia Starbucks Speak Out
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: The FBI looked into it. No charges were pressed. So, in this case, what would happen is the D.C. prosecutor would look at the facts of the case and then make a decision based on the findings. But this report, this scathing report on Andrew McCabe was the basis for his firing last month. He has denied that he ever misled investigators. In fact, with James Comey, he said that he did tell him that he was authorizing the disclosure of information to "The Wall Street Journal" in an article about the Clinton Foundation. Comey told investigators that that was not the case. You will recall, just yesterday, Comey on "The View" said that good people lie. Andrew McCabe lied, according to the I.G. And then Andrew McCabe's team released a statement saying essentially that the I.G. report was not based on facts and evidence, and they are standing by their story that Andrew McCabe did not mislead investigators. It is not that unusual, Brooke, for context here, for a criminal referral to happen in the wake of an I.G. report. I think that is important to note. But it's certainly serious as well, even though it's not unusual, because you have a group of what are supposed to be nonpartisan, nonbiased lawyers who are referring this to prosecutors to consider potential criminal charges. And we're dealing with the former deputy director of the FBI here, Brooke.</s>BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Right. Right. Right. And you brought up Comey and his role in all of this. Just a reminder to everyone, he's sitting down with Jake in 60 minutes from now. Meantime, Laura Jarrett to you on these Comey memos. Remind us what they are and when lawmakers will actually be able to see them.</s>LAURA JARRETT, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So there are at least seven different memos, at least that we're aware of. And the issue is that some of them arguably contain classified information. They're James Comey's contemporaneous notes from different interactions that he had with President Trump, and he memorialized them. And there's also an issue of whether they could have been part of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation. Several different outlets, including CNN and others, have tried to get our hands on the Comey memos and we sued in court for them, and we lost. And the judge said they're part of Mueller's investigation and they have to stay secret for now. But the Justice Department is prepared, I'm told, according to a source, to make them available to Congress. Whether they're going to be provided completely unredacted or they will be provided in a redacted form remains to be seen. But, as CNN's Manu Raju reported yesterday, members of Congress say they need to be made public and are prepared to hit the Justice Department with a subpoena if they do not hand them over -- Brooke. All right, Laura, thank you very much. Let's go to the legal experts and their analysis of what we just heard and more. With me now, CNN legal analyst and former lawyer for the Trump campaign deputy Rick Gates. He's Shan Wu. And Kim Wehle, who served as associate independent counsel in the Whitewater investigation. Great to have both of you on. And, Kim, let me just start with you on what we just heard from Pam with regard to the former deputy over at the FBI Andy McCabe. You heard Pam point out that he could face, could face criminal charges and that this is not all entirely unusual. What are considerations here moving forward?</s>KIM WEHLE, FORMER ASSOCIATE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL: Well, at this point, it looks like it's being sent over to the Justice Department to actually do a more careful, factual investigation as to whether there is potentially a crime here. It's not dissimilar to what's happening in the Mueller investigation with respect to other individuals. And then they will make a determination as to whether there's something to move forward to from a criminal standpoint. I think hopefully to move forward to from a criminal standpoint. I think hopefully what we're seeing is equal opportunity justice here, that these decisions are being made based on the facts and the law and not based on political affiliations. And I think it's important for the public to hear that the Justice Department needs to function independent of the political process.</s>BALDWIN: OK. Let me move off of that. We will watch that, of course, as it travels forward. But let's talk about the president's personal attorney, Michael Cohen. And, Shan, this is for you, because we know the president's former divorce lawyer Jay Goldberg, was actually called up, so he says, by the president and was asked for advice, and that he told the president that Cohen is likely to flip under criminal investigation, especially if you're looking down 30 years in prison. What do you make of Jay Goldberg's warning, and do you think that that's a fair conclusion?</s>SHAN WU, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR RICK GATES: I think that's fair concern to have. I think Goldberg knows his former client well and that probably the best way to get advice to the president is through the media. It's absolutely true that anybody facing any criminal investigation is under a tremendous amount of pressure, and this is an unusually aggressive, unusually high-pressure situation. The fact that they executed a search warrant on a lawyer's office, highly aggressive tactic, very intrusive, and that really ratchets up the pressure on Mr. Cohen.</s>BALDWIN: But if you're saying he's using the media to try to talk to the president, the guy is on the phone with the president. Why is he telling the public about his conversation, do you think?</s>WU: My speculation there would be that he knows that when he goes out into the public, that the president likes to watch the media, and the more amplification he gets, the more effective it may be.</s>BALDWIN: Gotcha. Gotcha. Kim, this lawyer Goldberg, who used to be a U.S. attorney, told our Gloria Borger -- quote -- "Anybody who is facing 30 years never stands up. Without exception, a person facing a prison term cooperates. " We know he has a family. He's mentioned that recently. Obviously, I have to imagine that comes into play here. What is the average flip rate in these kind of court cases?</s>WEHLE: Well, I don't know in terms of -- empirically, what the answer to that is. But what I do think is interesting is, of course, there are two issues here. One has to do with whether Mr. Cohen has personal criminal liability. And if that's the case, he can make what ever deal is offered for him personally. The other question is whether flipping means he's got information against -- that is going to implicate the president of the United States. And I think that's an extraordinary conversation to be having. If there's nothing to hide from the president's standpoint, this is irrelevant information and Mr. Cohen will go forward with respect to his own personal criminal liability, and the president's out of it.</s>BALDWIN: Let me hammer home on the point I think you're making. The inference, if we're having -- if he's having a conversation with the president about flipping, that then would mean the president did something wrong.</s>WEHLE: Right. Otherwise, it's not an issue.</s>BALDWIN: Right.</s>WEHLE: It doesn't really matter. It's besides the point. And I think it's absolutely astonishing as a matter of what's happening at the upper echelons of our government on both sides of the aisle right now that we're having a conversation as to what Mr. Cohen's decision- making with respect to his familial obligations are if he were to be given the opportunity to turn coat and give evidence with respect to the president's criminal liability. That's astonishing. We all should be concerned that anyone in that kind of position could even potentially be flipping in order to put the president in some kind of jeopardy or that he had information that could put the president in some kind of jeopardy. That has implications for democracy, not just this president .</s>BALDWIN: Yes. Shan, on that -- and we know, as we pointed out, you served on the legal team representing Rick Gates, who is cooperating with investigators -- that's an entirely separate issue and separate investigation. But can you just help us explain? I don't know how much you can say about that specifically. But when you're dealing with a client who is considering cooperating or flipping, what are the considerations? What is one thinking about as to whether or not they should roll?</s>WU: The most important consideration is that the client has to be 100 percent honest and understand what they're getting into. I can't speak about the Gates matter, because that's confidential and it's privileged. But generally speaking, the client must be very clear if you choose to cooperate, it's like being pregnant. There's not such a thing as being a little bit pregnant. You either are or you aren't. If you cooperate, everything is going to be an open book. And to the point made earlier about the flipping issue, simply the fact of cooperation doesn't necessarily, of course, mean that you have criminally culpable information against the president, but rather that he is agreeing to cooperate, rather than raising the shield of the Fifth Amendment. And then it's really up to the prosecutors to determine whether that information he has to give is going to be helpful in terms of criminal liability or not.</s>BALDWIN: How do you, given Gates cooperating, a couple of former Trump associates cooperating, and now the conversation that maybe, who knows, but maybe Cohen could be cooperating, Kim, how would this sit on someone such as the president?</s>WU: Well, I think for the president, if I were advising the president, I would tell him that he really needs, as other lawyers have told him, to ratchet down, stop the public commenting. And with regard to one of the pieces of advice given to him, which is to not sit down with the special counsel, I think that's right. For most politicians...</s>BALDWIN: You do?</s>WU: Yes. I think for most politicians, that's wrong, because if they refuse to sit down, it looks suspicious. They may get a grand jury subpoena. They may have to invoke the Fifth Amendment, which looks terrible. But he's not most politicians, so I don't think that would bother him.</s>BALDWIN: All right, Shan and Kim, thank you so much. And we're talking about this former divorce lawyer of the president's, Jay Goldberg. He will be on tonight at 7:00 with Erin Burnett here on CNN. So, definitely doesn't miss that conversation. Coming up next, President Trump reportedly is consumed by the news of Michael Cohen. We have new details about the White House's thinking with regard to that case. And Senator Tammy Duckworth making history, bringing her baby to the Senate floor just moments ago. There they are. You will hear what she had to go through to get the rules changed to allow for this. And breaking news on Mike Pompeo's nomination to become secretary of state. We have just learned a key Democratic senator will now vote yes. Stay with me.