GOP Meets for High Stakes Speaker Vote; Interview with Representative Daniel Webster
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Good Thursday morning. I'm Ana Cabrera in for Carol Costello. Glad to have you with me. Right now we are watching three big stories on Capitol Hill. First, House Republicans are meeting right now. They're voting on their candidate for speaker of the House to replace John Boehner. Who says House majority leader Kevin McCarthy is a shoo-in? Also, the head of Volkswagen U.S. in the hot seat. A shocking testimony, he knew about possible emissions systems and a way to cheat the system last year. Plus, General John Campbell back to testify on Afghanistan. Will we get more answers on the terror threat here? But we start on Capitol Hill and the Republican battle to be the party's next nominee for speaker of the House. Live pictures right now of the capitol. In just two hours Republican lawmakers will gather, cast a secret ballot for their choice to replace John Boehner. And while today's process is behind closed doors, a very public fight for the top job has exposed a rift within the party. And Dana Bash, CNN's chief political correspondent, is joining me now. Dana, we now know there are not two, but three candidates working to get votes of their colleagues, right?</s>DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And those three candidates just gave their kind of closing pitches behind closed doors to the Republican members who are going to be voting in a couple of hours. Kevin McCarthy is one. He is the frontrunner who is currently the House majority leader. And Jason Chaffetz, who is the chair of the House Oversight Committee, he threw his hat in the ring over the weekend, it kind of surprised a lot of people since he and McCarthy have been pretty good friends. And then Daniel Webster of Florida, he now is the favorite among those who call themselves kind of the most conservative in the so-called House Freedom Caucus. So just moments ago Kevin McCarthy walked by me. He insisted that he is going to be OK, that he's going to get the votes later at noon. And what is going to happen at noon is a secret ballot. And then to get the nomination, which is effectively what this is, the nomination for speaker from the House Republicans, it's got to be 125 yeses. And then, you know, if that doesn't happen, there could be multiple ballots but, again, McCarthy insists that he feels comfortable he will get that in the first round -- Ana.</s>CABRERA: And really, the key here, though, is not just today's vote. But when we look ahead in a few weeks, when the entire House votes, it's not entirely clear it seems that McCarthy is going to win that.</s>DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. What we're going to see on October 29th is the actual vote for House speaker because the -- here on Capitol Hill, almost all the leadership posts are done by the party. And once the party nominates them, that's it. The speaker of the House is different. It's a constitutional position. The entire House of Representatives has to approve, the majority has to approve the speaker of the House. So that vote is set, as I said, for the end of October. And just because McCarthy, assuming he does get the nomination today, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to get the magic, what we expect to be needed, 218 votes, majority at the end of October because there is a lot of to'ing and fro'ing going on among those people I was telling you about, the House Freedom Caucus. These are the members that effectively forced John Boehner out. They don't think that McCarthy is a new face and they want to make sure they're going to use their leverage now and make sure that he is going to listen to them, going to give them power that they say that they need, that they want in order to secure their votes -- Ana.</s>CABRERA: Dana Bash on Capitol Hill, thank you. Now, as she mentioned, one group threatening to derail frontrunner Kevin McCarthy's quest to be next speaker is that House Freedom Caucus. And this is a group of key conservatives believed to total around 40 members. Enough to keep McCarthy from reaching that crucial 218 votes needed when the full House votes later this month. Then as of now, the Freedom Caucus is backing this man. This is Florida Congressman Daniel Webster. But will they then stick together during the actual vote? That is yet to be seen. And CNN's chief national correspondent John King is going to join me now. John, things are getting interesting.</s>JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Things are interesting, Ana. And this debate among House conservatives over who should lead them is really a debate about who they should be and what posture they should take. The group, the Freedom Caucus, as you mentioned, and Dana just discussed, 40 or so conservatives backing Daniel Webster right now. Most of them came in, in the Tea Party wave of 2010, some of them in the second Republican wave in the midterm election of 2014. And they simply think their party which has won those elections, they have a House majority, now they have a Senate majority, they have this frustration that they're not winning. Why haven't we repealed Obamacare? Why do we keep voting to increase the government's debt ceiling so the government can borrow more money? Why haven't we won more conservative victories whether it's defunding Planned Parenthood or on spending issues. So they're frustrated. Now what John Boehner has tried to tell them and what Kevin McCarthy is going to have to try to tell them now is no matter what, yes, we have a House majority but there's only 54 Republican senators. You need 60 votes to get much done. And by the way, there's a Democratic president, Barack Obama, who can veto anything we send him. But these most conservative members despite Civics 101, if you remember taking civics class, Ana, they still think that their leadership should be getting more. Or if they can't get more, that it should be more confrontational. And so those conservatives will be with Daniel Webster today. And as Dana just noted, I think the key point is after the vote today, assuming McCarthy is right and he gets most of the votes, the question now is what does he have to give up? Does he have to issue a public statement? Does he -- let's listen up, we have some rumor on Capitol Hill, somebody is speaking. Let's take a peek. Jason Chaffetz.</s>REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: This is what I worry about is that the math is an issue. And it will continue to be an issue. But given that there's a process here, and that if you wanted to run, you can step up, I did, then I think we can yield a good result so.</s>UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Congressman, what's this process say about where the Republican conference is right now, these deep divisions that still remain and if any eventual speaker can unite the party at all?</s>CHAFFETZ: Well, again, I want to engage in some process reform. I think if you do that process reform, then you do yield a better result. But this is, you know, a healthy part of the process. And nobody expected that Speaker Boehner was going to step down, so we're going through this in the right way and hopefully we can get united.</s>UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think there needs to be a bigger shakeup in the other positions in the leadership?</s>CHAFFETZ: No, no, no. Not at all. No.</s>UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You said over the weekend that there are 50 who will vote against McCarthy. Is that still true?</s>CHAFFETZ: Based on the people I've chatted with, you know, it's part of the reason I offered my candidacy, is if they felt like they wanted to have an alternative, that I could help represent that alternative. So --</s>UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is that still true?</s>CHAFFETZ: I -- it will be interesting to see how many people take a similar approach to me and say, look, we had the race and, you know, this is the result, so we'll respect that.</s>UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: To be clear, you're still planning -- if you don't get the votes today, it's over for you today.</s>CHAFFETZ: Yes. If -- I'm going to support the nominee, whoever that is. So we'll find out here in a little bit.</s>UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Congressman, Congressman --</s>CHAFFETZ: All right. I'm going to keep going. I think you got enough stuff.</s>KING: That's the Republican congressman, Jason Chaffetz of Utah there. He threw his hat into the ring to be the next speaker of the House over the weekend. A bit of a surprise there. You heard him acknowledging there, he doesn't have the votes right now. He thinks Kevin McCarthy has the votes but he's put himself forward essentially as a plan B, that if there are enough Republicans who refuse to vote for Kevin McCarthy in the end, on the floor of the House of Representatives, and they need an alternative, he tries to have him right there. And I think CNN now has Daniel Webster, who is the other conservative candidate for speaker of the House against the majority leader Kevin McCarthy. Let's go and take a peek.</s>BASH: Hey there. That's right. I have Daniel Webster just walking by after he gave his pitch to his caucus. Thank you very much for joining me. What did you say about why you think you should be speaker?</s>REP. DANIEL WEBSTER (R), FLORIDA: Well, I just said, look, when I was speaker of the Florida House, we were able to turn our numbers, polling numbers right side up by taking up the most important issues first and then taking that pyramid of power that existed where a few people made all the decision, push it down, spread it out, so every member got a chance to be a player. When you do that, you buy in the membership and you can adjourn on time, and you can take up the most important issues first and you get your job done. And it worked, and the public notices.</s>BASH: And you have gotten the endorsement of the House Freedom Caucus, which is a caucus that's relatively new but somebody that has quite a lot of power. Talk about your conversations with them and why you think you got that?</s>WEBSTER: I told them the exact same thing. Now they were wanting to know how I would run the House and the whole idea is getting everyone to participate and given the opportunity as opposed to having a top- down approach, where most of the decisions are made at the top and most of the big decisions are left to the deadline instead of taking those up first. When you take them up first, you have the upper hand. When you take them up last, you're going to get run over.</s>BASH: You know, as you well know, around here, that's generally not how the House has been run. Either by Democrats or Republicans. It's been run by power at the top and been done that way for many, many years. And a lot of people think it has worked for many years. Why do you think it should be different now?</s>WEBSTER: Well, I think the public thinks it's dysfunctional. Our numbers are only 11 percent approval. So I think they may be the way it works but it's not the right way. We base everything on principle instead of power. Those two things can't exist in the same room. Either have principle or you have power. And when the membership gets engaged, the whole body does a much better job at doing the work.</s>BASH: You -- assuming that you -- let's just say that you don't get the nomination today in the vote today, and that Kevin McCarthy does, will you support Kevin McCarthy on the floor when the House votes October 29th?</s>WEBSTER: Well, I'm going to answer that if I lose, how about that?</s>BASH: Have you been thinking about it?</s>WEBSTER: No, I've been thinking about winning only.</s>BASH: And how do you feel in terms of the votes? Where do you think you are right now, how many do you have?</s>WEBSTER: I have no idea. I haven't asked for commitments. What I have done is made my own commitment to them. I would commit to serving them by telling the truth, by making them successful, by giving them the idea of putting principle over power, and then also by saying that I'll earn the right to be heard and not demand to be heard.</s>BASH: I know you don't want to think about sort of what happens after the vote but I'm just going to try one more question. If you don't get the vote for speaker, and the -- whomever it is, let's assume it's Kevin McCarthy, says to you, you know if you come and have a seat at the table with me, you know, that could work, if you could help me get the Freedom Caucus members. Kind of make a deal. Would you go for that?</s>WEBSTER: Well, I'm a plotter. Not -- I'm going to get to that vote. We're going to see what happens and then I'll make any decision I need to after that.</s>BASH: Thank you so much. Appreciate you stopping. All right. Good luck today. Thank you. John, back to you.</s>KING: Playing it carefully, Dana, Congressman Webster is, as he heads into this vote, holding his cards close to his vest. And that is where we're going to end up after this vote. You just heard from Jason Chaffetz there who presents himself sort of the alternative. If they can't work it out in those private meetings, Congressman Webster says I'm the conservative guy, vote for me, and we'll make things different even if we can't win all the votes. I'll let the more junior members at least have more say. Kevin McCarthy remains the establishment favorite, Ana. And as we watch this, a lot of people watching around the country might be thinking, why does this matter to me? This is a big deal about the civil unrest within the Republican Party, the disagreements over whether to be governing conservatives can cut the best deal, whether the opposition conservatives be more confrontational with President Obama. And as we watch this, Ana, play out in Washington today and then over the next couple of weeks, guess what, many of these same tensions are what we're watching when you have the Republican debates between, say, a Donald Trump or a Jeb Bush, or a Marco Rubio and a Ted Cruz. What we're seeing in Washington is what's happening in the presidential race and all across the country.</s>CABRERA: Well, and the bigger question is, when that speakership does change hands, what's really going to change? It sounds to me, what we heard from Webster is that the conservative caucus, which he will then represent on a more broader level, I mean, they're still going to be digging in their heels. Do you expect dynamics to change internally?</s>KING: That's -- it's a great question because the math won't change, at least until the next election. You have a Democratic president to the White House, you have only 54 Republican senators on the Senate side. So these conservatives want more but the math simply does not support getting it. And so will they be happier if they can a speaker who says fine, we're going to still vote 10 more times to repeal Obamacare, even though we know we're not going to get it? We're going to shut down the government, to defund Planned Parenthood or to refuse to raise the debt limit which will have to happen in a few weeks here in Washington? It's just more confrontation enough or as Congressman Webster suggested, more consultation? That I'll bring you in at the table, I'll listen to you more. In the end, Ana, though, the math is not going to change. They are not going to get what they want from a policy perspective in the short term. So the question is, can they manage this? One other quick footnote, the conservatives have invested in Congressman Webster there. His district is part of a Florida legal case. His district is likely to be redrawn. And most people believe he can't win his seat next year.</s>CABRERA: Interesting.</s>KING: That it's going to be redrawn into a Democratic district. But they're looking for someone to carry their banner. He's likely to lose today but because this is behind closed doors and because the frustration is so great, let's watch what happens. We have a little chaos at the moment, and then it will play out over the next couple of weeks.</s>CABRERA: All right. We'll keep an eye on it for sure. John King, thank you.</s>KING: Thank you.</s>CABRERA: Still ahead here today, Rupert Murdoch feels the backlash. Now he's backtracking. The tweet that started it all next.