Juror Says Race Never Came Up
BALDWIN: She is the prosecution witness who almost got as much attention, both good and bad, as George Zimmerman himself. I'm talking about Rachel Jeantel. From her casual use of the phrase "creepy ass cracker," to her visible frustration with Defense Attorney Don West in the courtroom, she was definitely not a wall flower witness.</s>JEANTEL: I had told you -- you listening?</s>DON WEST, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, ma'am.</s>JEANTEL: I had told you what happened to me in Crump interview. I had rush (ph) on it (ph). Are you listening?</s>WEST: Maybe we can break until the morning if that would be --</s>JEANTEL: No. I'm being (ph) done today.</s>WEST: What's that, I'm sorry?</s>JEANTEL: I'm leaving today.</s>WEST: Are you refusing to come back tomorrow?</s>JEANTEL: To you?</s>BALDWIN: So that was Rachel Jeantel in the courtroom a couple weeks ago. But last night, in an interview with Piers Morgan, some say we saw a different side of Jeantel, more animated, more relaxed, but just as controversial.</s>PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST, "PIERS MORGAN LIVE": Don West gave you a very hard time, the defense attorney.</s>JEANTEL: Hmm, Don West.</s>MORGAN: What is your -- what is your view of him?</s>JEANTEL: Mm-mm-mm. I'm going to have to say, he lucky I'm a Christian. Weed, you say marijuana.</s>MORGAN: Uh-huh.</s>JEANTEL: Well, in my area, we say weed. My area, weed for Trayvon, I can explain one thing, weed don't do -- make him go crazy, it just make him go hungry. Look at the picture. There is blonde females. Mind you, where we live, where everybody live, blondes are dumb. They say dumb things. So that's some dumb blondes. And I really don't care. To me, I want to (ph) --</s>BALDWIN: Joining me now, Robert Franklin, former president of Morehouse College, Emily Miller, senior opinion writer of "The Washington Times," and Lauren Ashburn, "Daily Download" founder, "Daily Beast" contributor. Welcome to all of you. Before we all chat, we saw a glimpse of this, but one of the things a lot of people are talking about today was Rachel Jeantel's use -- casual use if I may -- of racial language. Here she was.</s>JEANTEL: Nigger.</s>MORGAN: Why?</s>JEANTEL: People -- the whole word I say is a racist word. Mind you, mind you around 2 -- 2 -- 2000 that was not -- they change it around, I think. It start spelling it n-i-g-g-a. Nigga.</s>MORGAN: What does that mean to you, that way of spelling it? What does that word mean to you?</s>JEANTEL: That mean a male.</s>MORGAN: A black male?</s>JEANTEL: No, any kind of male.</s>MORGAN: Black or white?</s>JEANTEL: Black -- any kind. Chinese can say nigga. That's my chino nigga. They could say that.</s>MORGAN: And rappers and everything use it in their music and that's what they mean?</s>JEANTEL: They use it. Yes. But nigger or nigger, I advise you not to be by black people because they're not going to have it like that.</s>MORGAN: Why?</s>JEANTEL: Because that's a racist word.</s>MORGAN: They're two different words and they have different meanings in your community?</s>JEANTEL: Yes. No, in a generation, 2000 --</s>MORGAN: To young people you mean?</s>JEANTEL: Not young people. Old people use that, too.</s>BALDWIN: I just want to have a discussion. Let's begin with this language. And, Dr. Franklin, I want to begin with you just because you've been the president of a college for a number of years. You've, you know, worked with a lot of young people. Her casual use of the racial slurs, what does society make of this? What do you make of this?</s>ROBERT FRANKLIN, FORMER PRESIDENT, MOREHOUSE COLLEGE: Well, I find it interesting that this young woman, who in many ways is very naive but also at times sophisticated as she tries to explain the use of language in her cohort who --</s>BALDWIN: She's earnestly trying to explain?</s>FRANKLIN: Indeed. And I think she's reaching out so that others will understand what she means as she employs this language. Ultimately, I think this really signals the need for all of us to have a different kind of conversation and we need a national dialogue about race and about culture because we're rapidly approaching the time when there will be no majority in America and all of these young people will be the citizens leading our communities forward.</s>BALDWIN: We are trying. Hopefully this is the beginning of something larger. Lauren Ashburn, you know, you hear Rachel Jeantel. And, you know, a lot of people are saying, look, this is a generational thing, this language. She says, no. She says young folks, old folks use, you know, the "n" word. The fact that the "n" word ending in an "a" to her is a word that describes a male of any race? Should society just accept that?</s>LAUREN ASHBURN, DAILY DOWNLOAD FOUNDER, DAILY BEAST CONTRIBUTOR: I think what she is trying to do, and -- is really explain, as you said, what is happening on her level. However, that word has such negative connotations in -- and white people, and people of other races have been vilified for using it. And so it gets confusing when someone is allowed to say it and then someone else isn't allowed to say it. And I think that, you're right, the dialogue in America has to happen. If you Google "race in America," you get hundreds and hundreds of articles, symposiums from the University of Pittsburgh to the Aspen Institute, all of which are trying to make this issue go away.</s>BALDWIN: In terms of race, I know, Emily, you disagree with Rachel Jeantel. Rachel Jeantel says, you know, race was, of course, a factor in this case. Listen to this.</s>JEANTEL: You know, it was racial. Let's be honest. Racial. If he were white -- if he was white -- if Trayvon was white and he had a hoodie on, would that happen? Because</s>MORGAN: The jury -- there was a juror tonight who made it clear that the jury never really discussed race as being a motivating factor here.</s>JEANTEL: Imagine. They're white. Well, one -- one Hispanic.</s>COOPER: Well, was that a common belief on the jury, that race was not -- that race did not play a role in this?</s>JUROR B37: I think all of us thought race did not play a role.</s>COOPER: So nobody felt race played a role?</s>JUROR B37: I don't think so.</s>COOPER: None of the jurors?</s>JUROR B37: I can't speak for them. I'm not their voice.</s>COOPER: You -- that wasn't part of the discussion in the jury room?</s>JUROR B37: No. No. We never had that discussion.</s>COOPER: It didn't come up, what, that the question of, did George Zimmerman profile Trayvon Martin because he was African-American?</s>JUROR B37: No. I think he just profiled him because he was the neighborhood watch and he profiled anybody that came in acting strange. I think it was just circumstances happened that he saw Trayvon at that exact time that he thought he was suspicious.</s>BALDWIN: So, Emily, you and many, many other Americans agree with what we just heard from juror B-37. This was a case of simple self-defense. And you say, and many others say, this should have never even gone to trial, correct?</s>EMILY MILLER, SENIOR OPINION EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON TIMES": Yes. That's right. I mean let's just look at the facts of the case. The lead detective on the case, and the police, and the FBI did an investigation last year whether this was related to race. The lead detective said it had nothing to do with race. When Zimmerman called 911, he didn't report this being a black person. He said, he's someone wearing a hoodie. And the emergency caller said, can you tell race? And he said, I think black. I mean, there's absolutely nothing to do with this. This is being fanned by people like Jesse Jackson or Charlie Rangel or at times Barack Obama by saying, you know, Trayvon Martin looked like the son I never had. And now the Justice Department, under Attorney General Holder, are saying we're going to look into this. It's being fanned, but the facts of the case, as the jury decided them, as the prosecution pursued this case, everyone -- no one has ever said race came into it. And just look at the facts.</s>ASHBURN: But wait --</s>BALDWIN: But then what is it about this case, when you look at the folks on the street and, listen, we have this conversation, a lot of people on both sides I think just saw the headlines initially, had a preconceived notion going into it, didn't even get into the weeds and follow this trial and came out believing what they believed initially. Are you following me? I mean I feel like there is clearly -- and it's not always simmering -- but there is such anger and rage and frustration in this country. And if you look at any of the -- either Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman, they represent so much more than just two individuals.</s>ASHBURN: But, Brooke, let's talk about profiling for a minute. You have six people who are white on this jury and people are saying if there had been African-Americans on this jury, that the result would have been different.</s>BALDWIN: Right.</s>ASHBURN: Isn't that profiling?</s>MILLER: But would the result have been different? Would the result --</s>ASHBURN: Isn't that profiling?</s>MILLER: Wait, wait, but would the results have been -- first of all, that's a complete hypothetical. The jury has spoken. Even Barack Obama has said, the president of the United States has said the jury has spoken, so let's not question that hypothetical. However, are you saying that by putting a black person on the jury we would have found him guilty even though he was not? I mean that -- do we really want to screw around with the justice system --</s>ASHBURN: I'm not saying that. I say that. I'm saying that other people are saying that.</s>BALDWIN: Let me -- let me -- let me -- let me stop both of you ladies. With all due respect, let me stop both of you right there because there are lots of hypotheticals we could throw around, and they have been thrown around. But I am glad you brought up the president because this is something -- actually Dr. Franklin and I were tweeting about this last night. Many people have also written about this because the president stepped into this a little bit last year when he talked about, you know, had one of his sons -- one of his sons would look like Trayvon Martin. Should the president lead a conversation, a national conversation that we're talking about, when it comes to race? We're going to talk about that next.