{"action":"created","issue":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/nylira/prism-break/issues/772","labels_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/nylira/prism-break/issues/772/labels{/name}","comments_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/nylira/prism-break/issues/772/comments","events_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/nylira/prism-break/issues/772/events","html_url":"https://github.com/nylira/prism-break/issues/772","id":24613883,"number":772,"title":"[WARN] Riseup.net Email service don't delete your emails, keep even after you delete them!!","user":{"login":"ghost","id":10137,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/10137?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/ghost","html_url":"https://github.com/ghost","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/ghost/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/ghost/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/ghost/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/ghost/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/ghost/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/ghost/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/ghost/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/ghost/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/ghost/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"labels":[],"state":"closed","locked":false,"assignee":null,"milestone":null,"comments":15,"created_at":"2013-12-20T10:07:43Z","updated_at":"2015-02-05T12:10:54Z","closed_at":"2014-01-03T00:13:58Z","body":"PLEASE HIDE RISEUP FROM EMAIL SECTION\r\n\r\nhttps://user.riseup.net/ticket/615275\r\n-----------------------\r\n\r\nTicket 615275\r\nSubject Urgency \t\r\n\r\nIf the backup option is unchecked and Thunderbird deletes emails after downloading them, are they stored on Riseup servers?\r\nIs there any chance that a government agency could retrieve these emails after seizing a server, perhaps by scanning for deleted files?\r\n\r\n\r\n- [x] taggart, August 16, 2013 00:01\r\nHi,\r\nWe don't keep deleted messages.\r\nAll of our servers use full disk encryption, so an attacker would not be able to find them by scanning for deleted files either.\r\nThanks,\r\ntaggart\r\n\r\n- [x] krutt, December 16, 2013 14:59\r\nI have just changed my Riseup user-name.\r\nAfter signing into the web-mail with the new user-name, I saw 162 messages that I thought had been deleted.\r\nI feel betrayed, as I was under the impression e-mails were not stored on the servers after being deleted.\r\nI never had the backup option enabled. http://i.imgur.com/yH2pdIQ.png\r\n\r\n- [x] anoooonx, December 17, 2013 01:29\r\nMe too. I always purge(delete trashbin) emails after I read.\r\nI only use WebMail(Squirrel).\r\nToday when I login to webmail, I found that my old emails are still in the trashbin.\r\nI think I should move to A/I.\r\nhttp://www.autistici.org/en/index.html\r\nDO NOT LIE to customers, riseup.\r\n\r\n- [x] taggart, December 18, 2013 00:50\r\nHi,\r\nI think there is some confusion here. Many mail clients (including webmail clients) by default move mails to a 'Trash' folder when you mark them for deletion. Also complicating things is the fact that there can be a local 'Trash' folder stored on your computer and also an IMAP 'Trash' folder which is stored on the server, and the behavior is dependent on the settings in your mail client.\r\nFor the IMAP 'Trash' folder stored on the server, Riseup automatically deletes messages older than 21 days. Riseup has no control over any local folders stored on your computer.\r\nRiseup also has no control over user mail client settings for local clients(Thunderbird, etc). For the webmail clients, new users get default settings and can adjust them from there. Now might be a good time for Riseup to consider adjusting the default mail settings for webmail. The current 'Trash' behavior has always been seen as a feature, but with recent changes it might be better to lose the feature in exchange for storing less email.\r\nWe document information about these special folders on help.riseup.net, but I can see how it could still catch people off guard. I think it would be useful to add additional help pages describing how users could adjust their client settings to disable this 'Trash' feature to ensure that mail wasn't stored at all. Probably we need one page describing the problem and then each of the help pages for specific clients should have more instructions with screenshots showing how to turn it off for that specific client.\r\nHopefully the above is clear. Let us know if you have any questions or comments.\r\ntaggart\r\n\r\n- [x] krutt, December 18, 2013 20:15\r\nI did a test using webmail only. Here's what I did:\r\n1) Changed username to zgggz\r\n2) Sent an email to myself (Subject: \"Email not deleted proof\")\r\n3) Checked inbox in webmail and saw the welcome email \"Welcome to Riseup\" AND the email I just wrote\r\n4) Clicked on Inbox folder in webmail, ticked both emails, clicked delete\r\n5) Clicked on Trash folder in Webmail, ticked both emails, clicked delete\r\nAt this point my inbox size for all folders shows up as 0.0kB. I cannot find any emails anywhere.\r\n6) Changed username to zgggz1\r\n7) Checked inbox in webmail\r\n8) SAW THE EMAIL I HAD DELETED, AND THEN PURGED FROM THE TRASH TITLED \"EMAIL NOT DELETED PROOF\"\r\n9) Changed username back to krutt\r\n???\r\n\r\n- [x] anoooonx, December 20, 2013 09:54\r\nThis is a major security risk.\r\nIt seems that Riseup is telling us a lie, no offense here.\r\nI think I should make an account in \"Autistici/Inventati\".\r\nhttp://www.autistici.org/en/index.html\r\nhttp://www.infoaut.org/index.php/english/item/8937-freedom-and-rights\r\n\r\n- [x] anoooonx, December 20, 2013 10:03\r\n0) Login to webmail, Delete ALL EMAILS. Make sure trash is empty.\r\n1) Change a username from user.riseup.net\r\n2) Logout and wait 5 minutes\r\n3) Login to webmail\r\nAnd... WHAT THE F...\r\nEvery emails (ALL from I open an account TILL today) which I surely delete appear in INBOX!!!!! (WebMail/INBOX)\r\nDon't believe me? Then try for yourself!!\r\nRiseup is surely don't delete user's emails! Explanation needed!\r\nThis is a news, I'm gonna tell this scandal to my friends!!\r\n\r\n- [x] krutt, December 20, 2013 13:43\r\nanoooon:\r\nI'd like to add that in my case,\r\nI could also see every single e-mail from the day I signed up after going through these steps.\r\nHowever, clicking on \"destroy mailbox\", which completely deletes your email service,\r\nand making a new one seemed to delete (or just hide? I don't know) the emails.\r\n\r\n- [x] anoooon, December 20, 2013 13:52\r\n|> clicking on \"destroy mailbox\"\r\nUh, where? Would you tell me where that button exist?\r\n|> making a new one seemed to delete (or just hide? I don't know) the emails\r\nI think they just \"hide\" your mails. No deletion.\r\n\r\n- [x] anoooon, December 20, 2013 13:56\r\n|> I could also see every single e-mail from the day I signed up\r\nAnd when do you join riseup?\r\nI join here in December 2013, if my memory was right.\r\n\r\n- [x] anoooon, December 20, 2013 13:58\r\nkrutt, IF,\r\nyou are being an member more than 21 days,\r\nthe information below is a goddamn LIE, isn't it? :)\r\n|> taggart, December 18, 2013 00:50\r\n|> ... For the IMAP 'Trash' folder stored on the server,\r\n|> Riseup automatically deletes messages older than 21 days.\r\n\r\n- [x] krutt, December 20, 2013 14:31\r\nanoooon:\r\n|> Uh, where? Would you tell me where that button exist?\r\nIf you visit the e-mail tab, you can see it in the bottom right corner.\r\n|> And when do you join riseup?\r\nI've been here for a few months, the earliest email that should have been deleted\r\nis dated towards the end of September on the screenshot in one of my previous posts.\r\n|> krutt, IF, you are being an member more than 21 days, the information below is a goddamn LIE, isn't it? :)\r\ntaggart might not be aware of this issue, so I can't call him a liar.\r\nBut the fact is, that messages which had been deleted for well over 21 days appeared in my inbox.\r\nI am keen on hearing an official reply on this.\r\nAnoooon, please don't jump to conclusions too fast.\r\nThere may be a rational to all of this, although I am feeling less comfortable by the minute.\r\n\r\n- [x] anoooon, December 20, 2013 14:40\r\n0) Email settings: Destroy mailbox. Destroy and create it again. [done]\r\n(Keep backup is OFF, of course.)\r\n1) Send an email to myself, and delete it. Trash is empty. [done]\r\n2) I'll change my nick (now)\r\n\r\n- [x] anoooon, December 20, 2013 14:54\r\n3) Login to Webmail as \"anoooonxp\"...\r\nBooo.... Negative. Email come back alive.\r\n(Those 2 things: I delete from a trashbox. Not these appears in INBOX!)\r\nSubject sort From sort Date sort Size sort\r\nThis message is new Head down!! anoooon@riseup.net 6:41 am 1.3 k\r\nThis message is new Welcome to Riseup! Riseup Collective 6:39 am 87 k\r\n|> making a new one seemed to delete (or just hide? I don't know) the emails.\r\nis not work. Riseup STILL don't delete emails.\r\nI leave these 2 things in INBOX. Just logout...\r\n4) change nick back to anoooon.\r\n5) Login to webmail.... and...\r\nhuh!? Where is these 2 mails go!?\r\nSubject sort From sort Date sort Size sort\r\n|THIS FOLDER IS EMPTY\r\n---------------------\r\nConclusion:\r\nRiseup is NOT deleting user's email.\r\nEmails which age is 21-days older still exist in riseup server.\r\nDisclaimer:\r\nQ1: You are using an email client. That's why your emails are exist in riseup!\r\nA1: Negative. I always use ONLY riseup's webmail(squirrel).\r\nQ2: You just have a dream. You don't delete an email.\r\nA2: Absolutely not. I always delete from INBOX/SENT and also delete from trash. I always leave no mails when I click logout.\r\nQ3: You are lying. Please don't kick us:( (by Riseup team)\r\nA3: I think you are a liars. Go try for yourself.\r\n\r\n- [x] anoooon, December 20, 2013 14:57\r\n|>> This message is new Welcome to Riseup! Riseup Collective 6:39 am 87 k\r\nThis mail was automatically send by riseup, so\r\n(Those \"1\"[not 2] things: I delete from a trashbox. Not these appears in INBOX!)\r\n|>> Head down!! anoooon@riseup.net 6:41 am 1.3 k\r\nThis is an test mail which i sent to myself before changing an nick.\r\nI delete it as anoooon, change name to anoooonxp, and login to webmail. "},"comment":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/nylira/prism-break/issues/comments/73036623","html_url":"https://github.com/nylira/prism-break/issues/772#issuecomment-73036623","issue_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/nylira/prism-break/issues/772","id":73036623,"user":{"login":"Muvuk","id":5338127,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/5338127?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/Muvuk","html_url":"https://github.com/Muvuk","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Muvuk/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Muvuk/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Muvuk/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Muvuk/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Muvuk/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Muvuk/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Muvuk/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Muvuk/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Muvuk/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"created_at":"2015-02-05T12:10:54Z","updated_at":"2015-02-05T12:10:54Z","body":"@gagou9 \r\n\r\nI read the next on that page, i think it is very similar (non deleted) problem like risup. That's the reason why i ask about in this thread. \r\n\r\n\"I don't trust Autistici because - I have a few Autistic accounts. One had sent/received only two e-mails. One sent/received 5, one sent/received 23, one sent/received 136, one sent/received 621. Subsequently I deleted ALL e-mails and emptied trash. So all my accounts have no e-mails in them, including my trash can. However the amount of space used by each of my e-mail accounts is proportional to the number of e-mails I had sent/received. That means Autistici keeps my deleted e-mails on their servers, which is not cool, because I have already deleted them permanently from my mailbox. Why are they keeping my permanently deleted emails on their servers - I don't see any healthy explanation for that.\""}}