{"action":"created","issue":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/10345","labels_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/10345/labels{/name}","comments_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/10345/comments","events_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/10345/events","html_url":"https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10345","id":92873726,"number":10345,"title":"[BALANCE] HoS/ERT/DS Armour Buff | Revolver Armour Piercing","user":{"login":"Steelpoint","id":6595389,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/6595389?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/Steelpoint","html_url":"https://github.com/Steelpoint","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Steelpoint/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Steelpoint/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Steelpoint/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Steelpoint/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Steelpoint/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Steelpoint/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Steelpoint/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Steelpoint/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Steelpoint/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"labels":[],"state":"open","locked":false,"assignee":null,"milestone":null,"comments":92,"created_at":"2015-07-03T13:17:21Z","updated_at":"2015-07-06T05:32:48Z","closed_at":null,"pull_request":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/-tg-station/pulls/10345","html_url":"https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10345","diff_url":"https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10345.diff","patch_url":"https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10345.patch"},"body":"Changes: Buff HoS Armour to the below stated values, revert the ERT and DS armour values to their original values and adds 10 armour piercing to revolver rounds to ensure the HoS can still be crit in three revolver rounds.\r\n\r\nCurrent Values: melee = 40, bullet = 30, laser = 25, \r\nProposed Values: melee = 65, bullet = 40, laser = 50\r\n\r\nGreatcoat melee value is 10 points lower to account for the 10 melee protection the HoS's uniform provides.\r\n\r\n-------------------------------------------\r\n\r\nOpinions: After observing several rounds, and from my own experience, I think the nerf on the HoS armour was too harsh, to the point where many people in game are now calling the HoS armour as being shit and bad to wear, I've also seen several HoS's take to not wearing their armour, swapping out to something marginally better such as ablative armour or even wearing nothing at all.\r\n\r\nI mean hell, some admins in game think the HoS should be invulnerable to melee damage, but I digress.\r\n\r\nCurrent HoS armour is only a few points better than sec armour, that should not be the case.\r\n\r\nOne final point, the new Armour Piercing values might make a interesting area to explore for further balancing, but that's a large topic that needs to be tackled by itself.\r\n\r\nEdit: Obligatory Referencing #9702 "},"comment":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/comments/118727506","html_url":"https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10345#issuecomment-118727506","issue_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/10345","id":118727506,"user":{"login":"Lumipharon","id":7869430,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/7869430?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/Lumipharon","html_url":"https://github.com/Lumipharon","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Lumipharon/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Lumipharon/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Lumipharon/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Lumipharon/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Lumipharon/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Lumipharon/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Lumipharon/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Lumipharon/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Lumipharon/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"created_at":"2015-07-06T05:32:48Z","updated_at":"2015-07-06T05:32:48Z","body":"I've said this time and time again. If you're basing these balance changes on stuns being bad (which isn't an unresonable belief, but that's a whole other balance argument that revolves around more then straight up combat), then these changes are still entirely ineffective.\r\n\r\nCombat in this game is by and large based on disabling people, by whatever means.\r\nStuns are, by definition, a one hit take down.\r\nDamaging attacks are (almost) entirely multi hit takedowns, the best of which are two hit crits.\r\n\r\nSo no matter how you change armor or damage values, stuns will still be 'technically' better at disabling a person.\r\n\r\nThere are still valid reason for wanting to adjust armor or damage values, but basing it off 'stuns' bad simply doesn't work.\r\nUnless an e-sword does 100 or more damage for example, a stun prod is still on paper better for taking someone down.\r\n\r\nThe reason why people use non stuns is because combat isn't that straight forward, and it's often more convenient to maim, crit or kill people rather then trying to stun + cuff (ops for example, dont have time to piss around stunning and cuffed 40 people).\r\n\r\n\r\nAll that said, dont buff bullet resist on HoS armor, it's already robust as fuck."}}