Speaker 2: The motion is carried.
Speaker 0: Thank you. Item 23, please.
Speaker 2: Item 23 Communication from Councilman Austin. Councilwoman Sunday has Councilwoman Allen and Councilwoman Price recommendation to request city attorney to drive an ordinance that will prohibit protest within 300 feet of the target residents.
Speaker 0: Councilman up. Thank you. So we're bringing this item forward in the interest of residential safety and peace. We recently experienced a new. Overreaching tactics by certain groups in attempt to gain attention, influence and intimidate. Public officials there and other high profile individuals. Personally, I believe this council supportive supportive of First Amendment rights and free speech. I know I am. And I also believe that private residence should be respected as just that private family neighbors. Should not have to endure such intrusions and threat to the safety of private homes. Family, children and neighbors in residential neighborhoods have been terrorized by hyper aggressive protests. This is an opportunity for us to send a message to say No home is supposed to be a safe space. Home is a sanctuary for families. And when not, safe spaces threatened and quality of life is diminished. We fully acknowledge the right to protest and free, free speech. Citizens have a cherished right to freedom of speech. However, our constitutional rights are not unlimited. This item is being brought forth in the interests of safety of all parties. Recently, there have been too many examples of protesters going too far and crossing the line. It's time for a lot of beach to move an ordinance to establish some common sense parameters. And so I would hope that we can have a civil discussion this evening about this item and hoping my colleagues will support this, because it's in the interest of everybody involved, all parties. Thanks. Thank you. Councilman Price.
Speaker 1: I support this item.
Speaker 0: Thank you. How does that add my comments out? I'll I'll support it, too, but a few concerns I want to raise. And we have some staff. The one I know, I, I know I've had incidences at my own home separate from our city council work. I serve on regional boards and I've, you know, come home and there's signs on all the just my neighbor's yard. And my neighbors have complained. People have knocked on their door about the pressure me to vote one way or the other on on a regional board. And, you know, I can think of other incidences where, you know, folks were in my front yard, I'm up in my garage and my driveway. In each case, I approached them. I approached the folks outside. And I know there's a different comfort level there, but I approached them outside, met them. I asked them, you know, hey, my neighbor has a newborn or I have a finger to live here. I'm here, put the bullhorn down to stop. And after that, I hadn't had that incident again. And with the folks, you know, the regional board, I sat down with them and and my chief of staff sat down with them and said, hey, when we're outside, you can be Councilmember Richardson or Vice Mayor Richardson or a county board member Richardson. But when you're home, your dad, you're Rex, the neighbor, and there's not many places that you can just be the person at home. And so that's the sanctuary we have. We do have to protect. Now, I do want to I do want to ask about the the enforceability of this. That is something that should should go up. And I also want to ask, Councilman, often what I what I would actually feel I'm going to support what you do here. But I think the appropriate thing to do is the like before we tell them the draft ordinance, have them look into these different issues to make sure what ordinance does go forward. We have a plan to enforce, make sure there's enforceability so we don't project, you know, an impact on a neighbor or a police officer or whoever is going to do the enforcement. I do want to actually hear about feasibility before we actually vote on the actual ordinance. So just a couple of things that, you know that I think we need to think through. So, Mr. Modica, could you speak to or Chief, could you speak to the enforceability question so I can have the Chief talked to you about that a little bit? I will say it'll be situation dependent for sure. Whenever there are protests. That is a heightened environment. You have people who are very passionate and so there's a lot of things to consider. We also need to be thinking of the officers that we might be putting in that situation. And again, if it's a very small event, that's one thing. If it's hundreds and hundreds of protesters, that that's a different issue as well. So with the chief, add anything to that that he would want to. Good evening. My Vice Mayor and members of the City Council, Mr. Modica, hit some of the highlights. But typically when we're doing a protest management, which we do a lot of in this police department, our priority is facilitating First Amendment rights, and we're very successful at that. We do get these occasions where protesters will just disrespect people's property. Enforcement is typically one of the last things on our mind when we go there. We have contact employees who will make personal contact. Try and find out, Hey, what can we do to facilitate this? And 99% of the time it works. So there's just many steps we get to then enforcement. But as they always say, the devil's in the details. And as this draft, this ordinance is drafted, we will have some input and then we shall see where it goes. I mean, obviously, other cities have done this and it does help because we have had protests and individuals homes and there has been some destruction of property. So we obviously want to prevent that, but we want to make sure that our community's voices are heard at the appropriate in the appropriate time, place and manner. Certainly. Thank you. And I think that, you know, understanding you're going to look at some of those things that that's a good thing. So let's go ahead and hear from the rest of the council councilmember Yolanda. All you see right off the top. I am not supportive of this motion. I believe in the right of individuals to protest. There was a protest at my house over the 22 years that I've been an elected official, I've had several with our trustee as well. Controversial issues came up to me then and there were protests. The you know, I'm in the belief that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I mean, it's as we've had a protest recently, I think the police department did a phenomenal job in having those. I think that putting the. As a as an audience basically would tie their hands a little more than that then I think it should be. And it puts more restrictions on their ability to address protest, even at residences. So basically I'm just saying that I think this ordinance might be in the spirit of protecting. The welfare of elected officials or the subjects of any kind of protest. I think that the people have a right to do so, and we know that when we get into this this job, that that is a very much a possibility . So I'll leave it at that. Thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman Ciro.
Speaker 1: Thanks. So I. I do believe that we should. People should exercise their First Amendment. But at the same time, I don't think there is a boundary as well. And where, you know, it's it goes to the area of where it becomes, you know, violating property, too. I think, you know, and other areas that can be very scary. So I'm interested also in adding to what vice mayor is saying is in addition to feasibility, I'm also interested of what have other cities done. I think I just heard that the city of L.A. did pass a similar and then they also had a $1,000 fine per person. But I had a lot of questions like how do you how do you go about enforcing that? And then also, what does how does that prohibit them from disturbing your neighbor in order to pressure you to cave in to what the protesters are asking for? Right. So so that's kind of where I have questions about it and would like to learn more about how does it allow people to still exercise their First Amendment, but at the same time, how do we ensure this isn't adding a layer of challenges to police officers and how to, I think, manage this? Right. So that's where I would like to see is what other have other cities done it and is it working as well in addition to the feasibility of it?
Speaker 0: Thank you, gentlemen. Mungo.
Speaker 1: Thank you. The protests that I've experienced started at another residence in my community that that was not an elected official and it was an appointed official. And I think that when I watched that unfold and. And the commanders here now who he's no longer a commander. I mean, it was a a multi-week issue that was very, very destructive, not only to the neighbor being targeted, who their agency gave them options to move, but the neighbors around them did not have those options. The neighbor who was being protested was warned and notified in advance and potentially moved to a hotel room or moved to another regional office for a short term. They had a lot of options. It's the neighbors adjacent to the protests subject that have had the hardest time. And I appreciate the commander at the time. We went out and did community meetings and we talked about people's right to protest and. It can be frustrating for the neighbors who. Know their neighbor as their friend and their neighbor and somewhere where their kids play at the neighbor's house. And now it's become this this target residence where there was vandalism. There was all sorts of really bad things. And the challenge surrounding protests and the way that they occur and sometimes the spontaneity, but less often now with social media and the ability to find out about them is just the. The quick evolution and risk to the neighbors. Like Councilmember Richardson, I've gone out and spoken with protesters in front of my house. I've had lots of great conversations. Cova didn't always give that kind of opportunity, both at council and in front of our homes, to have that because of the need to create space and all of those things. But I will say that. The people who lived adjacent were the ones who are most impacted. I signed up for this, but my next door neighbors did not. And. The House is on. Both sides of me have sold since I've been a resident in this neighborhood, since I've been elected, I should say. And so that's been pretty hard to have those conversations and help them understand. One has grandchildren that live with them and the other has two children that live with them. And and they are afraid and they are concerned. They're very interested in this because. They don't have the de-escalation options that maybe the council member has to go out and talk to the individuals. And sometimes you don't even know the protest is coming and you're not home to be able to go out and support or de-escalate and discuss with the residents and hear them. And so I'm open to supporting this tonight. I don't know what the solution is. I really think that a survey of those most impacted that didn't sign up for this are really the the concerns and the hurt my heart the most. To hear the the the frustration in a grandparent's voice when they didn't know that they bought a house next to a council member was a really hard thing for me. I know that people talk about the most disruptive thing as living next to a neighbor with a barking dog. But I think my neighbors would argue that the most difficult thing is living next to a council member for the various reasons. And I would say that during an election cycle, the poor neighbors have been targeted with. Candidate to turn them in for not pulling their their trash cans away or turn them in for other violations that are typical in a normal neighborhood and occasionally forget. And then all of a sudden they have a notice on their door because some candidate was targeting me but accidentally got them. And those have been said this for me. So I'm I signed up for this and I'm happy to to meet with any resident, any time, any place. Sometimes I've reached out to a residence I wasn't able to get a hold of. And and they don't even want to meet with us. And that's okay, too, because that's their right. But I just wish that our neighbors that live adjacent to us on each side weren't as impacted.
Speaker 0: Thank you, Councilman. Thank you. I do appreciate the, the, uh, the question the, uh, the critical thought going into this, this, uh, this particular item, the spirit of this item is to again, promote safety and peace, sanctuary at home for evidence, support, quality of life and neighborhoods. Oh, there there is a template template that has been in place and I believe the city of San Jose for well over 20 years now, since 1993, it held up to the Supreme Court as well. Here is a template, and what this item does is establish parameters, he said. But it should do is give that. Hyper aggressive individual who who may be thinking about doing harm to someone's property, then maybe thinking about flipping fear and intimidation. When someone's property, we give them pause to think about it. If there's a fine process, I totally support that. But when we talk about enforceability, I mean, I think we can talk about the possibility of every ordinance that we pass. I can name probably a dozen of them off the top of my head that are never enforced. Like fireworks. Okay, so terminal. Let's just go on and on. The the the work of of policy making doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be perfect policy, but the spirit and intent of policy to sometimes persuade or dissuade behavior. And so some of the examples that we've seen that people who put moving vans in front of people's homes with the derogatory messages on them. That fear of intimidation that brings terror to a household, to a neighborhood. We've seen people show up at people's front door. In the wee hours of the morning, we've seen firearms brandished the danger. So I think we have a responsibility here and an opportunity here. And, you know, this is not something I'm going to necessarily die on the sword over because, you know, yes, I've had people protest in front of my home. And, you know, I'm a public official. I knew that this was a. The job came with certain certain responsibilities and vulnerabilities. At the same time, you know, we have to say enough is enough. Some of us were privileged to see the president yesterday. We saw him behavior after that. That should be very concerning, right? Very concerning. Today, being a public official, being a high profile individual is not the same as it was five years ago, not even two years ago. It's a different, different climate and I think we have a responsibility to address it. Council. Excellent.
Speaker 1: Thank you for mentioning that. Councilman Austin, I did want to share a couple of things. The first is one of the I have I get completely what Councilman Aranda saying. And for the record, I have. I did sign up for this job and all that it comes with. And unfortunately, good or bad, my personality is such that I say what's on my mind, which means that, you know, I'm going to have people come to my home. I'm okay with that. But I don't know that that's fair to my neighbors. And when I say things like, I'm not going to change my position on this, or I do support our patrol officers on the streets, and if that means you need to come back, then come back. It's not fair to my residents. So one of the protests at our house that Commander O'Dowd is familiar with. I had a resident who does not generally support my politics or the politics of this state. I was standing outside his house two doors down with a loaded shotgun, and Commander O'Dowd can attest to that. He was standing outside during a protest with a loaded shotgun. Those situations really scare me because between his house and my house is the house with the family, with a seven year old and a one year old who do try to leave when we have advance notice of the protests because of the language that's used on the speakers that are generally placed on the on the street. So it's not it's not about me or what I like or what I don't like. In fact, my family, you know, my husband goes out there and, you know, records the protests and, you know, they're they're not certainly not shying away from it, but it's really not fair to our our neighbors. So the point about last night, the thing that concerns me is my mother, she's 74 years old. Many of you know her. She's had some health challenges in the past. I would say she's not in fighting weight right now. She's not at the at the height of her physical abilities. And last night, she got in a face to face altercation with one of the protesters about some comments that they were making about Afghanistan and federal policies. And when you're in that heat of that moment, you get emotional. And I don't think it was my mom's intent to get it in the face of a very aggressive protester last night. But they were saying things coming from a war torn country ignited some passions in her. So she said something back and it literally took somebody trying to separate them because there was no metal detectors for the protesters that were there last night. No one knows what they had on them. And yet here's a 73 year old woman who sane and has her mental faculties about her, who was not able to resist that moment to speak the truth, which she felt needed to be spoken. And that happens a lot more when it's in front of people's homes because they feel like you're now in for a my home saying things that I may or may not agree with. So I feel comfortable to come out and challenge you. And it's just a recipe for disaster. That's the problem. It's not us. I get what Councilman Ranga is saying. I completely agree with him. It's not us. It's. It's the people around us who didn't really sign up for that. And and I think the ordinance, which was just passed by L.A., was done because we're in a time now where things have been stretched to a limit that could potentially be dangerous. And I think we're just trying to protect the community. So I appreciate Councilman Austin bringing this item forward, and I appreciate my colleagues supporting him, not just for those of us here who have experienced it, but for the many residents who live alongside us who don't deserve it. Thank you.
Speaker 0: I was on furlough.
Speaker 1: Thank you. So I definitely appreciate this robust conversation. And I'm and then I want to maybe offer a friendly given my question I had is, you know, wanting to learn a little bit more about the feasibility of it and what other cities done. I do appreciate Councilman Austin sharing that. San Jose's done it. Love to learn more about it. And also maybe just the cost that it might be additional to do that. I don't I don't know either. So if I can offer a friendly that, we do a little bit of a study to understand it a little bit more and then come back. With that information so we could decide from there.
Speaker 0: What do you propose we study?
Speaker 1: To understand the impact of how do we enforce it, how does it work and have other city done it? What are their challenges so that we can make so that we can create an informed ordinance.
Speaker 0: That the city attorney. Can you can you look at that while drafting the ordinance? May. Yes, we could certainly work with staff and come back with an ordinance. And I think we could work with staff on some on a memo or a document that would hopefully get some of the answers to the questions that have been raised . I don't have the answers for you this evening, but we could do that at the same time. But that would require us to make some assumptions on what you would like with the ordinance. However, it'll come back and we could certainly revise it in any manner you deemed appropriate at the first reading. And with that said, I'm happy to accept that a friendly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 0: Current supernova. Thank you. I would like to possibly shed some light on this last item. The friendly. I just. I just want to clarify. This idea of this might impact this will be not enforceable or or whatever. I'm not sure where we're going with this, but. And Councilman Austin, thank you for bringing this forward. And you had mentioned the moving vans with messages on them. Actually, the moving vans represented what I believe the police thought was this was meant to look like a Timothy McVeigh exploding, moving van in Oklahoma City. That was the threat combined with that. And this was last Thanksgiving. One of the organizers posted his photo online, holding displaying an assault rifle. They went online and invited. I think our best account was 26,000 people to visit the council houses. So while everyone was enjoying Thanksgiving, I was on a conference call with my council colleagues and Commander O'Dowd and I and I know Commander Herzog was very involved last Thanksgiving. So there's a tremendous impact on whether or not we have this ordinance in place. But one of the things that struck me that probably wouldn't strike others is that my father was a first responder, and we spent a number of Thanksgiving without our dad at the table. And to think that these protesters caused police command staff to miss time with their families over this, I don't know what the protest was about . I'm not sure. But I think they didn't want us to shut down restaurants for COVID. I think that was the whole point. But it was overkill, to say the least. And yeah, I did not have my family at my house by Thanksgiving. So I just want to dispel the myth that with this ordinance in place, we'll have all these additional police resources to try to enforce this. I think we have a bigger problem if we don't do it. Thank you. Thank you. All right, so it seems. Councilwoman Pryce.
Speaker 1: I just want to add on that, that the vans were parked outside of our homes for three solid days. At first we didn't know what was in the van, but then we figured out they were open in the back. My husband wanted to put some of our goodwill donations back there because we have no other way to take them. But capital among us was locked. But that visual was a reminder to the whole neighborhood for three full days that we didn't know what was coming on Thanksgiving Day. And that kind of terror on a neighborhood is just not fair, especially when you knew 26,000 people were invited. Thankfully, four showed up and it was uneventful. But the point is that for three days, the residents knew this was on social media and did not know what to expect on Thanksgiving Day. So I don't know that our police department worked any less hard because we didn't have an ordinance. I don't know that an ordinance would impact on what they did or how they would do it, but I think an ordinance would set some appropriate boundaries for neighborhood activities.
Speaker 0: Thank you. Just reflect on the entire conversation. I'm glad to see that there's been some amendments here to have a study, you know, feasibility of some of the issues. You know, show us tell us what other cities have done. The menu of options that we've heard enough from enough of the members that, you know, we want to do something here. We don't make make sure it strikes the right chord. We protect we support First Amendment right. We want to make sure that that is loud and clear. We are not calling protesters, protesters terrorists. We are not doing that. However, we do want to make sure that we are doing what we can to protect the safety of not only our leaders, our neighbors, anyone who is a target of these activities which have ramped up over time. And. Right? Right. So so the idea is safety. But we do want to send a clear message. And so we want to be nuanced. We want to see that feasibility report. And I want to see it before we vote on this thing. So we're not putting that as a criteria. We're giving you direction to create your ordinance. But we want to see some of those things so we can be informed on what those menu of options are when we do cast that vote on that ordinance. And so we should be very, very clear. We protect First Amendment rights. We want to make sure we have the right attempt to have the right ordinance. We see what those amendment mean, those menu options are. And then we make a thoughtful case here on how we do this and that. That's really what what I like to make sure that we see that said in any public comment on this item.
Speaker 2: There's no public comments.
Speaker 0: Okay, members, please cast your vote.
Speaker 2: Motion is.
Speaker 1: Carried.
Speaker 0: Thank you. Next, we have item 24.
Recommendation to request City Attorney to draft an ordinance that would prohibit protests within 300 feet of the target’s residence.