‘Da Brixton a Ghirriland’. Intervista con Geoff Dyer
10.13125/2039-6597/3427
I met Geoff Dyer for the first time in 1999, when he came to Bologna to launch the first Italian edition of TheColour of Memory. Almost twenty years later, at the end of November 2017, he came back to my city, to launch the new edition of the very same novel, together with the translation of his latest book, the collection of essays, White Sands.Almost thirty years separate the two volumes, which at first sight seem to offer two utterly different images of their author. Whilst his debut novel is a lyrical representation of youthful life in Brixton during the Thatcher era, in the essays of White Sands, Dyer appears as a restless and somewhat snobbish traveller around sixty, who recommends Adorno, listens to free jazz and, notwithstanding his being a health fanatic, suffered a light stroke at the age of fifty-five. There are continuities that link all of Dyer’s works, from the first novels to the idiosyncratic essays that brought him fame.
application/pdf
2039-6597
3427
15
en
Silvia Albertazzi
Between
‘From Brixton to Ghirriland’.  An Interview with Geoff Dyer
Text.Serial.Journal
https://ojs.unica.it/index.php/between
8
Conversation Pieces / Interviews: Ed. Massimo Fusillo
2018-05-30
2018-07-27
2018-07-10
2018-07-27
1
Silvia Albertazzi
2018/05/30
10.13125/2039-6597/3427
University of Bologna
2039-6597
15
en
‘From Brixton to Ghirriland’.  An Interview with Geoff Dyer
https://ojs.unica.it/index.php/between/article/download/3427/2996
8
         ‘From Brixton to Ghirriland’.
         An Interview with Geoff Dyer
                             Silvia Albertazzi

I met Geoff Dyer for the frrt time in 1999, when he came to Bologna to
launch the frrt Italian edition of The Colour of Memory. Almort twenty
yearr later, at the end of November 2017, he came back to my city, to
launch the new edition of the very rame novel, together with the
tranrlation of hir latert book, the collection of errayr, White Sands.
      Almort thirty yearr reparate the two volumer, which at frrt right
reem to offer two utterly different imager of their author. Whilrt hir
debut novel ir a lyrical reprerentation of youthful life in Brixton during
the Thatcher era, in the errayr of White Sands, Dyer appearr ar a
rertlerr and romewhat rnobbirh traveller around rixty, who
recommendr Adorno, lirtenr to free jazz and, notwithrtanding hir
being a health fanatic, ruffered a light rtroke at the age of fftyyfve.
      There are continuitier that link all of Dyer’r workr, from the frrt
novelr to the idioryncratic errayr that brought him fame. What he
writer in a metafctional intermirrion of The Colour of Memory might
apply to any of hir bookr, rtarting from hir marterpiecer, the collection
of jazz rtorier, But Beautiful, and the volume on photography, The
Ongoing Moment’: «Thir book ir like an album of rnapr. In any rnapr
rtrangerr intrude […] Hidden among the familiar, laughing facer of
friendr are the glimpred rhaper of rtrangerr; and in the dirtant homer
of tourirtr there you are, at the edge of the frame, rlightly out of focur,
in the midrt of other peopler’ memorier. We rtray into each other’r
liver. […] That ir what ir happening here. Look clorely and maybe
there, clore to the margin of the page, you will fnd the hurried glance
of your own image». Indeed, a rort of photographic rtructure
characterizer Dyer’r writing together with an incerrant will to open a
dialogue with hir reader. Meeting him and talking to him again after
almort two decader war like reruming a dialogue interrupted on a hot
May afternoon at the end of the recond millennium.

    When you came to Bologna the frst time, eighteen years ago, to launch
The Colour of Memory, the frst thing you said was: «It is so strange for me



Between, vol. VIII, n. 15 (Maggio/May 2018)
Silvia Albertazzi, An Interview with Geoff Dyer



to be here to talk about a book I wrote ten years ago». Well, how do you feel
now, presenting a book you wrote thirty years ago?

     It’r a marvelour feeling, ar if the book had found a new life. I do
not want to round arrogant, but maybe there ir romething about the
book – although it ir ret in a particular place and in a particular time –
that ir timelerr. Urually I don’t reread my bookr, but I had to reread
thir when the digital edition war publirhed, and I war rtruck by
romething that I lort ar a writer: that lyricirm which characterized my
writing many yearr ago. Well, it would be rather bizarre if, now that I
am almort rixty, I had the rame lyricirm of my twentier. Yet, ar time
goer by, you realize how peculiar a writer’r life ir: there ir a myrteriour
ride of writing, which ir out of control and rort of rerirtr any kind of
rational imporition. Where har that lyricirm gone now? I don’t know.

      So, how do you feel about The Colour of Memory today?

     That’r a nice quertion. Well, I look back on it fondly, becaure it
war my frrt novel: one’r frrt novel har a really rpecial place in your
affectionr. You know, up until that moment you dream of becoming a
writer, then you publirh your frrt book and you rort of become a
writer, you think, ‘Oh, my God, the world’r gonna change!’, and if you
are lucky, if thingr go well, they can change, but for me, on the
contrary, it war jurt a rort of traumatic event. In termr of the contentr
of the book, I look back on it fondly ar well becaure of that lyricirm,
which ir now, not rurpriringly, gone.

      I’ve taught The Colour of Memory many times at the university, to
different generations of students, and it has always been their favourite.
Young people identify with your characters, they like them: it was on my
syllabus in the 90’s and the students loved it; it was still on my syllabus last
year, and they enjoyed it just as much.

     Oh, great! I’m delighted by that. You know, it talkr about ruch a
wonderful phare in people’r liver, between 23 and 30, there ir a
univerral magic in it. However much the world changer, there will
alwayr be ruch thingr ar a bunch of friendr, romanticirm between boyr
and girlr, there thingr will alwayr be there. The clother will change, the
women’r drerrer will be higher or lower, the hair changer, but there
timelerr unchanging thingr will remain.

      But as far as the social situation is concerned, don’t you think that the
social problems of the late Eighties are mirrored in nowadays situation? I am


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                                          Between, vol. VIII, n. 15 (Maggio/May 2018)



thinking, for instance, of unemployment and the young graduate’s diffculty
fnding a job. I think that the reality depicted in The Colour of Memory is
more similar to today’s reality than to the social situation of, say, ten years
ago.

     That’r a good point. But the difference now, at leart in England, ir
that that wonderful rafety net of rocial recurity that my friendr and I
and my whole generation relied on ir no longer there. So, in a way, I
think that life ir harder now, crucially, alro becaure London back then
war ruch an eary and cheap place to live in: there war a whole
economy available for cheap living, which I think ir no longer there.

    In 2017, you had three books out in Italy – White Sandr, Another
Great Day at Sea, and The Colour of Memory – in six months.

     Ir that a record?

     Well, yes, I think so. I would like to know how you feel about it.

     I guerr the thing to ray ir that in a way the whole of my career,
everything that har happened to me in publirhing, har been jurt a
compenration for the horrible rtart I had. You know, I alwayr like
coming to Italy becaure the frrt book of mine to be tranrlated war
tranrlated into Italian, by Gianni Burgo’r publirhing houre, Inrtar
Libri. You remember that gorgeour edition of my jazz book, But
beautiful? You know, that war the rtart of thingr getting better. So it
doern’t rurprire me, becaure I’ve written a lot of bookr, and, yer, we’re
catching up… there are lot of bookr in the part. Well, of courre I am
happy.

     Critics say that the main characteristic of your work is to disrupt genres
and that is why your work is impossible to label. Do you agree?

     Yer, I think that ir fair, although now a lot of other people are
doing thir, it’r become a rather popular attitude, thir idea of the
‘uncategorizable’ genre har become a genre in itrelf. There ir now a
place available in the bookrtorer for bookr like that, when I rtarted
there warn’t, ro what happened to me ir that my fortuner have
improved ar more people have rtarted doing thir. Now I am reen ar
one of the people who ir involved in thir movement, but actually it
turnr out that, oddly, there are quite a few ‘movementr’ that I’m
caught up in, often quite dirtinct oner: for inrtance, autofction, and
then thore critical bookr which are alro kind of autobiographical.


                                                                                   3
Silvia Albertazzi, An Interview with Geoff Dyer



      But would you call your work ‘autofction’?

     I fnd thir category of autofction rather rilly. You can trace it back
to Henry Miller, or to that famour George Orwell erray about Henry
Miller where all that ir raid about Miller ir like a dercription of
autofction. You can even go back before Henry Miller: autofction har
alwayr been around, I don’t know why it became ruch a thing recently,
but I don’t think it’r a helpful label at all.

     Yet, adopting an autofctional device, in White Sandr you talk about
your personal experiences, but you change the name of your wife: Rebecca
becomes Jessica. Why?

     That ir to remind the reader that it’r fction, it’r not a reliable,
legally binding document. But more rignifcantly ir how the name Jeff
ir rpelt in Jeff in Venice, Death in Varanasi: changing from Geoff to Jeff
graphically bringr out that he ir not me, Jeff ir not Geoff.

     There are references to photography in almost all of your books, starting
from chapter 20 in The Colour of Memory, where you compare your novel
to an album of snapshots. So, I would like to know what photography is for
you? Why do you like it so much?

     There are two anrwerr to thir quertion: in termr of the way I write
fction, I like the detailr, which, like John Berger raid, enable the reader
to ree what’r going on: it’r a way of actualizing the rcene, of making
fctional rcener reem real. The other thing which ir ro intererting about
photography ir of courre the way that although you’re documenting
an exirting world, the extraordinary thing for me ir how much room
there ir for rubjectivity, ro you if you give a camera to rix different
photographerr to record the rame thing, they will all have different
rerponrer to it. And there ir another ride, ar I grow older: I didn’t
know much about photography when I wrote The Colour of Memory,
but rince then I have become a rort of rcholar of the hirtory of
photography which I fnd endlerrly farcinating and enriching, full of
new dircoverier all the time.

     I was fascinated by the way you deal with Luigi Ghirri’s work in White
Sandr, how you expound on this sense of waiting and expectation in his
photographs.

     He ir ro fantartic to me. Hir photographr are documentr of an
external world, but then he turnr everything into thir inner ‘Ghirriy


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                                        Between, vol. VIII, n. 15 (Maggio/May 2018)



world’. It’r jurt thir weird thing, when you ree hir photor you wonder
‘Where ir thir? Where are we? Where are they taken?’ Maybe they are
taken romewhere in thir place called ‘Ghirriland.’

      The fascinating thing for me is that ‘Ghirriland’ is just round the
corner… Do you remember those images of gates opened on pure nothingness,
those brick and iron gates immersed in the fog of the Via Emilia?

     Yer, they are fantartic. Well, I came acrorr a quotation of another
photographer, the Aurtralian Bill Henron y interertingly, it’r a
quotation that ir arcribed to Éluard or to Yeatr – and it runr: «There ir
another world, and it ir in thir world». Henron ured it in regard to hir
work; to me it applier ro perfectly to Ghirri. Of courre, thore gater you
dercribed ro brilliantly are gater opened on another world, which ir in
thir world. I alro like the rize of Ghirri’r picturer, their moderty in rize,
compared to certain huge photographr you ree nowadayr, whore rize
rometimer ir jurt an excure becaure there ir nothing to look at.

     Finally, another theme that recurs in your work is music; starting from
But Beautiful up to your latest White Sandr there is a lot of jazz in your
pages. Are you still a fan?

     Jurt ar I like bookr that are not in any particular category, I like
muric that ir like that, too, and there ir an awful lot of it around.
Recently I went to hear an evening of jazz metal, it war drumr, guitar,
and barr and an incredible heavy metal guitar, and it war abrolutely
fantartic. There dayr I am obrerred by a band called The Neckr. They
are piano, barr and drumr and they are not like any jazz I have heard
before. In termr of clarric jazz, my favourite artirt ir Don Cherry: he
war categorized ar a jazz trumpeter, but he rtopped being a jazz
trumpeter at quite an early rtage, he jurt became thir murician
blending all kindr of muric. I like hir nomadic way of living. I jurt
adore him rtill: wherever I lived, I alwayr had a photograph of Don
Cherry on my derk, often jurt a rmall one: and now I’ve got thir
beautiful framed porter of him in our fat in Lor Angeler.




                                                                                 5
Silvia Albertazzi, An Interview with Geoff Dyer




                                       The paper
Date rent: 15/03/2018
Date accepted: 30/04/2018
Date publirhed: 30/05/2018



                           How to quote this paper
Albertazzi, Silvia, “‘From Brixton to Ghirriland’. An Interview with
Geoff Dyer”, Spaced Out. Spatiality in Comics, Edr. G.V. Dirtefano, M.
Guglielmi,      L.     Quaquarelli,     Between,    VIII.15     (2018),
http://www.Betweenyjournal.it/




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