0002 1 2 APPEARANCES: 3 4 KIMBERLY PATRICK, Attorney Advisor 5 US ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY 6 Office of Small and Disadvantaged Business 7 Utilization 8 1200 Pennsylvania Ave., N. W. ( 1230A) 9 Washington, D. C. 20460 10 Appearing on behalf of EPA 11 12 OTTO SALAMON, Small Disadvantaged Business 13 Utilization Officer 14 US ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY 15 Office of Policy and Management 16 290 Broadway 17 New York, New York 10007 1866 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0003 1 2 SUMMARY OF MAJOR ELEMENTS OF 3 THE PROPOSED EPA DBE RULE AND PREAMBLE 4 NOVEMBER 18, 2003 5 MS. PATRICK: All right. The 6 primary change for the program, of course, is 7 going to be the name of it. We're currently 8 the MBE/ WBE program. We're going to change 9 our name to the DBE program, which is the 10 Disadvantaged Business Enterprises Program. 11 And the reason for the name change is quite 12 simple. If you look at DOT, their program 13 is a DBE program, and, so, we wanted to try 14 and get some, you know, uniformity across the 15 government agencies so people will hear one 16 name and know what the program is, regardless 17 of what agency you're working with. 18 We went with the DBE, more 19 encompasses woman owned business, 20 minority owned businesses into just one 21 disadvantaged business enterprises. That's 22 the name we're going to go to the with. 23 The second major change, the history 24 of and how we sort of got to where we are 25 is the certification process I mentioned 0004 1 2 before that we currently allow businesses to 3 self certify, meaning you are whoever you say 4 you are. If you say you're Big Bird, we 5 believe you. That is going to be a major 6 major change. 7 We're going to require that entities 8 actually fill out forms and attest legally to 9 who they are or what their status is in 10 terms of being socially and economically 11 disadvantaged. EPA is really not in the 12 certification business, nor do we want to be. 13 So, to that end we're trying to make this as 14 easy as possible for business owners to use 15 certifications that they already have, so 16 that they don't go through another process to 17 get certified by EPA. 18 If someone has a certification from 19 SBA, from DOT, from a state, a locality, 20 municipality, even if there's an instance 21 where an Indian tribe has a certification 22 process in place, we will accept that 23 certification, as long as the criteria for 24 receiving that certification is equal to the 25 federal government standard. And in the case 0005 1 2 of DOT, we will only accept DOT 3 certifications as long as the US citizenship 4 requirement that we have is met. 5 DOT has a different citizenship 6 requirement than ours. Ours is in line with 7 SBA, which requires US citizenship. That's a 8 major major change, and it's something that 9 we're thinking is going to be quite 10 interesting when we start to get into actual 11 applications that may come in. 12 We know at this point that there are 13 five categories of entities that we know that 14 we would have to be the primary certifier 15 for because the other agencies just don't 16 certify in that category. 17 They are women owned businesses. 18 SBA currently does not certify women owned 19 businesses and neither does DOT. And we 20 don't know of any localities that do. I 21 know a couple of states that do. And in 22 that instance, we will accept that 23 certification, as long as they meet the 24 federal standard. 25 We're going to have to certify 0006 1 2 Disabled American owned businesses because 3 absolutely no once else certifies them. 4 Private and voluntary organizations controlled 5 by individuals who are socially and 6 economically disadvantaged. Entities which 7 are certified under criteria which are 8 inconsistent with EPA DBE program criteria 9 and an entity claiming that it is owned or 10 controlled by socially and economically 11 disadvantaged individuals under the EPA 8 12 percent statute. That's the major 13 distinction. 14 I don't know how it happened. I 15 wasn't here back when the wise ones were 16 writing the statute. But there's a huge 17 difference between the Clean Air Act and the 18 Clean Water Act statute in terms of our 19 program. Under the 8 percent statute in 20 the, I believe that's the Clean Air one, 21 under the 8 percent statute, an entity has 22 to be owned or controlled by a socially and 23 economically disadvantaged individual. Under 24 the 10 percent statute, an entity must be 25 owned and controlled. That's a huge legal 0007 1 2 difference for us. But since even with this 3 reg, we can't go back and change the 4 statute. We have to find a way to accept 5 both into our program. 6 Currently SBA requires an entity be 7 owned and controlled and so we had to make 8 an opportunity to receive entities or 9 businesses that are owned or controlled. So 10 that's why that distinction exists. 11 Another part of the certification 12 criteria is that individuals with a personal 13 net worth of 750K or higher will be excluded 14 from eligibility. When we look at net 15 worth, we exclude the personal interest in 16 the business and we also exclude your 17 personal residence. So those two things are 18 not calculated in the personal net worth 19 numbers. Everything else is. So, if your 20 net worth is under $ 750,000, you are 21 eligible. If it's over that, you're not. 22 The good faith efforts. Currently 23 in Part 31 under Part 30 they're called two 24 different things but they're substant  25 they're substantively the same thing. 0008 1 2 In Part 31 it's called the six 3 affirmative steps. And Part 30, it's called 4 the six positive efforts. Well, we're going 5 to do something that makes some sense. 6 We're going to merge them, put them in one 7 section and call them one thing. They're 8 necessarily six good faith efforts. The 9 substance of them have not changed at all. 10 They're still the same 6 steps. 11 Now the purpose of those 6 steps is 12 to  let me go back. In every grant 13 agreement, there's terms and conditions  14 well, within your agreement, there's terms 15 and conditions regarding our program. In 16 that term and condition it lists the 6 17 affirmative steps that the recipient has to 18 go through in terms of looking for a prime 19 contractor when they decide to spend the 20 money in those four categories I talked about 21 before. 22 Those efforts are designed to make 23 sure that minority and women owned businesses 24 are included in the process. Those six 25 efforts just require the recipient to go out 0009 1 2 and when you're doing your competitive 3 process or your bid or you're looking who 4 you're going to get your paper from, it just 5 makes sure that you solicit minority and 6 women owned businesses. These requirements 7 do not say you have to go with the women 8 and minority owned business. It's just 9 saying you have to include them in your 10 process of looking. 11 They are, those 6 efforts include 12 things like where you're having broader 13 solicitations, make sure you advertise the 14 fact that you're doing this procurement, 15 those types of things. And that is, require 16 that you follow those six affirmative steps, 17 but is not required that you go with a 18 minority and women owned business. You still 19 have to make a business decision that's best 20 for you. 21 So, if we're saying the 22 minority/ women owned business, the cost is 23 three times of that of a larger business, 24 we're not saying, go with the minority/ women 25 owned business just because you think we may 0010 1 2 be saying you have to do that. Make the 3 business decision that's best for you. Just 4 in your process make sure you're inclusive. 5 That's all we're saying. 6 Let's see. Also, within a rule we 7 have a few new contract administration 8 provisions. These provisions are procedurally 9 designed to make sure that minority and women 10 owned business subcontractors are treated 11 fairly by the primes. 12 We have heard so many times and so 13 many horror stories about the subcontractor 14 or the minority owned business not being paid 15 on time or about them being fired or  16 fired from the contract as soon as it's 17 awarded. So, they use them to get the 18 contract and say, oh, we've had, we're 19 working with these minority owned business 20 subcontractors. And as soon as they get the 21 award and they let them go. So the 22 provisions are sort of designed to stop that 23 from happening. 24 One, recipient must be notified in 25 writing by its prime contractor prior to any 0011 1 2 termination of a DBE subcontractor. So, as 3 the recipient of the federal moneys, if your 4 prime contractor decides that they're going 5 to terminate one of their DBE subcontractors, 6 they have to let you know before that 7 termination takes place. Number one, when a 8 DBE subcontractors fails to meet its work 9 under the subcontract for any reason, the 10 recipient must require the prime to make good 11 faith efforts in hiring another subcontractor. 12 Those six good faith efforts that I 13 talked about before trickle down to the prime 14 contractor. That means when the prime 15 contractor goes out to find a subcontractor, 16 he has to follow those same 6 good faith 17 efforts that you, the recipient, have to 18 follow in finding that prime. And this 19 particular provision is saying that in the 20 event that a subcontractor is terminated, 21 when that prime goes to find out, goes to 22 find another subcontractor, he has to go 23 through those 6 good faith efforts yet again 24 in an effort to make sure that the minority 25 and women owned businesses are included in 0012 1 2 the process. 3 Number three, a recipient must 4 require its prime contractor to make good 5 faith efforts even if the fair share 6 objectives are met. 7 Now we haven't got to the point 8 where we talked about the fair share 9 objectives yet. Are many of you familiar 10 with the goals that are in your grant 11 agreement? Anybody? No? 12 MR. SALAMON: They don't have goals. 13 MS. PATRICK: That's another thing 14 that's coming. I'm ahead of myself. We're 15 going to come back to this one after I talk 16 about the fair share objectives and the new 17 requirements regarding that. 18 Number four, a recipient must require 19 its prime contractor to its subcontractors 20 for satisfactory performance within a specific 21 number of days from the prime contractor's 22 receipt of payment from the recipient. 23 And, finally, there are a few new 24 forms that the recipient will require the, 25 excuse me, where most cases will require the 0013 1 2 prime to fill out to prevent bait and switch 3 tactics that we've seen. That's some of the 4 things that we talked about. 5 Now, submission of fair share goals. 6 That's the part, that's what I alluded to 7 before. Right now we did not require any 8 that negotiate goals with the agency for the 9 use of minority and women owned businesses. 10 This is a brand new provision. We've 11 decided to make this provision applicable 12 across the board to all recipients, to the 13 states, to the localities, municipalities. 14 To state agencies who sometimes negotiate 15 their own goals, this is a brand new 16 provision. 17 The way the goals operate, they are 18 not quotas. I have to make that very clear. 19 Not quotas. They are goals. It's the 20 number that we like for you to attain. And 21 the way it works is the fair share goals are 22 based on the availability of businesses 23 within your regular geographic area, okay. 24 So, for example, the fair share goal 25 of minority, women owned businesses in 0014 1 2 Illinois may be 50 percent but the goal in 3 Vermont is probably going to be about 2 4 percent or 1 percent just because of the 5 availability of minority owned businesses in 6 that geographic area to do the work. And so 7 the  that's what the goals are based on. 8 And the way they would operate is, 9 it will be based on where you do your normal 10 buying practices. So, normally where you buy 11 is within, let's say, a 50 mile radius from 12 where you are, when we sit down and 13 negotiate goals, it's going to be based on 14 the availability analysis or disparity study 15 that will show what's available in your 16 regular geographic area. And then a number 17 is worked out. There's actually formula and 18 everything in for the rule. 19 We have two numbers. We have one 20 for New York State and then we have another, 21 you know, or for upstate. And it's quite 22 different. In New York, it's much higher 23 than the one upstate. 24 MS. LaFRANCE: Where does upstate 25 start? 0015 1 2 MR. SALAMON: Outside of New York 3 City. It's about 25 miles out of New York 4 City. 5 MR. JOCK: Ken Jock, Saint Regis 6 Mohawk Tribe. Is this fair share goal, you 7 just need to negotiate one goal that would 8 apply to all of the different grants that 9 you receive? 10 MS. PATRICK: It really depends. 11 Now, if what you're purchasing under all the 12 grants you receive are similar type of 13 products, one goal could work for you. But 14 let's say you have a grant where you happen 15 to be purchasing highly specialized technical 16 consulting, that goal may be different from 17 the goal you use to buy your office 18 supplies. Because we realize that the number 19 of minority/ women owned businesses in that 20 line of business may be much smaller. 21 So the, let's say the 14 percent 22 goal you have for office supplies wouldn't be 23 fair to apply that under another grant where 24 you may be doing something totally different 25 and the universe of available businesses may 0016 1 2 be smaller; but you have that option, if you 3 feel that, you know, applying that same goal 4 across the board could work, then that's 5 great. If you feel you want to do something 6 different, you always have the option to go 7 in and talk to our coordinators who will be 8 negotiating the goals to determine what's 9 really best and what's fair and equitable for 10 your situation. So there's some flexibility 11 there in terms of negotiating the goals 12 process. 13 We understand that this is a totally 14 new process, totally new process for you all. 15 So what we're doing is we have a provision 16 where if you have a situation where the 17 state has negotiated a goal, we will allow 18 you to use the state goal, if you feel that 19 it works for where you are in your 20 geographic area. You have the option to 21 adopt the goal that's been negotiated by the 22 state. 23 You also have the option of adopting 24 a goal, let's say  let's say a tribe near 25 you has already negotiated, they've gone 0017 1 2 through the process, they have a goal. If 3 your buying practices are the same and your 4 general geographic area are the same, you 5 have the option of adopting a goal that 6 they've already negotiated. It's just an 7 option. If each of you want to come in and 8 negotiate your own goals, that's great. 9 We'll also do that, too. 10 We want just to make it as easy as 11 possible because the cost of doing disparity 12 studies is very high. Availability analyses 13 are a lot of cheaper but still we realize 14 it's an expense. Some of the ways an 15 availability analysis can be done cheaply is 16 using the colleges and university that you 17 have around. It's an outstanding project for 18 a business student or graduate student, to do 19 an availability analysis for your area. 20 They're also based on census data which is 21 available to everyone. And so those are 22 some of the types of ways to sort of 23 minimize the potential expense for it. 24 MS. COOK: My name is Denean Cook. 25 I'm also in the Saint Regis Mohawk tribe. 0018 1 2 We currently have on our applications the DBE 3 part of the application and we use 8 percent 4 and I don't know where that figure came 5 from, but is there a different figures, Otto, 6 for supplies and for  7 MR. SALAMON: No, there isn't and it 8 shouldn't be in there. The 8 percent? 9 MS. COOK: ( Nodding.) 10 MR. SALAMON: It may be on an older 11 form. 12 MS. PATRICK: One of the things we 13 used to do when I talked about the 8 and 10 14 percent statute, I think 8 percent clean 15 water and 10 percent clean air or vice 16 versa, that was the agency initial goal when 17 this program first started to, we used to 18 just put that same goal in everybody's 19 agreement. We didn't even look at what the 20 geographic area was, we didn't even look at 21 what you're buying, it was clean air 8, slap 22 the goal there, move on. The reason why 23 it's probably still left in your agreement is 24 because of that. 25 Currently we do not require tribes 0019 1 2 to negotiate so you should not have a goal 3 at all in your agreement. The fact is that 4 somebody probably just Xeroxed some old terms 5 and conditions and just put them in there 6 and figured the language didn't change. It 7 was an oversight but that goal shouldn't, 8 shouldn't be in your grant. 9 MS. COOK: They've been applying 10 that to all your grants. 11 MR. SALAMON: Your grants really 12 just have the six steps as a condition. 13 MS. PATRICK: That's an error. 14 MR. SALAMON: For Indian tribes, 15 it's just to follow the six steps. If you 16 look at all your grants, you will not see a 17 percentage on the grants itself. 18 MS. COOK: I mean, they've required 19 that form to be sent in. 20 MS. PATRICK: The form is something 21 different. The form  22 MS. COOK: I mean there's a page on 23 the application where you put your name on 24 there and, actually, the line is blank and 25 there's a percentage sign and the next line 0020 1 2 is blank and what we've been doing is while 3 EPA has asked that we submit that form with 4 our application and because it was always 8 5 percent and, like I said, I don't know where 6 that 8 came from. I mean, like, you know, 7 it was probably originally part of it and 8 you probably just carried it through. But 9 when they required us to do that form, I 10 would just add the total, consultant moneys, 11 equipment, travel and supplies, I would add 12 those together and take 8 percent of that 13 and that was our goal. Is that not the 14 right percentage, then, now  or how do we 15 figure that percentage? Is it up to us what 16 our goal is going to be? 17 MS. PATRICK: Which form are you 18 talking about? 19 MR. SALAMON: The 5700 form or is 20 that the one  21 MS. COOK: No, that's the reporting 22 form. There's another actual form. 23 MS. PATRICK: I  24 MS. COOK: That goes with the 25 application. It's not really, was it in our 0021 1 2 last one we did, Ken, do you remember? 3 MR. JOCK: I don't remember. 4 MR. SALAMON: You want to fax me a 5 copy. 221 637 3518. Let me take a look at 6 that. But in any case, whatever you report 7 on your form right now, it's 100 percent of 8 the procurement. It's considered 100 percent 9 because we don't have a negotiated rate with 10 you. 11 MS. PATRICK: Whatever that 8 12 percent you guys have been using, for right 13 now, stop using. You can stop putting it in 14 there because it's a grant to an Indian 15 tribe. We used to consider it all 100 16 percent minority or women owned business. 17 Consider it, all of it, 100 percent. 18 One of the things that we saw when 19 the review of the program was done, was that 20 a lot of times we would find that we would 21 be giving grants to tribes but they were 22 spending large amounts of the money not with 23 tribally owned businesses or even minority 24 owned businesses, but in most cases with 25 large businesses. And, so, we have to do a 0022 1 2 report back to Congress. And when we were 3 giving them the numbers and we had all these 4 100 percents to Indian tribes, it wasn't true 5 because the money really wasn't being spent 6 where we thought it was. 7 One of the reasons why we negotiate 8 rules is to make sure we're getting an 9 accurate picture of what's happening with the 10 money that we send out there, that the 11 agency sends out. For right now what you're 12 doing, we're actually filling that goal. You 13 should not put anything in that spot or if 14 you want to put anything, put 100 percent. 15 That's currently how we're operating. Don't 16 use the 8 percent. You shouldn't have been 17 using that. That's probably really a 18 historical thing that just flowed right on 19 through but you can stop doing this. 20 MS. PATRICK: Yes, sir. 21 MS.: My name is David Arquette. 22 I'm with the Haudenosaunee Environmental Task 23 Force, and I know what form she's talking 24 about because we have to submit to the EPA 25 at the end of the year, too, as part of our 0023 1 2 grant requirements; but we just leave that 3 blank because we don't have any contractual 4 or any stuff like that in our grant. So 5 we've just been leaving it blank or putting 6 zero. 7 MS. PATRICK: That's what you should 8 be doing. I mean, for his case because 9 there were no expenditures, no contracts, or 10 anything, that's definitely the case; but in 11 terms of the goal, you shouldn't be putting, 12 just leave it. 13 Let's see, where was I? On the, on 14 the goals. 15 One of the new provisions we're 16 going to have in the rule is that the 17 recipient has 90 days to negotiate a goal 18 with us once the, once the grant award has 19 been made. If the goal is not negotiated 20 within the 90 days of the grant award, the 21 recipient will not be allowed to spend the 22 money on any procurement in those four 23 categories I mentioned, construction, services, 24 equipment, and supplies. If within the 90 25 days there's no negotiated goal, you can't 0024 1 2 spend the money because equipment, services, 3 construction, supplies pretty much covers 4 anything that anybody would buy. Let's see. 5 MS. COOK: So we have to negotiate 6 a goal with your office? 7 MS. PATRICK: With Otto. 8 MR. SALAMON: With me. 9 MS. COOK: Otto. 10 MR. SALAMON: Let me just add. 11 MS. PATRICK: Please. 12 MR. SALAMON: That this is going to 13 be phased in, the negotiation, over a 14 three year period. 15 MS. PATRICK: That's in here. 16 Because we know this is a new process and 17 because we also know that this task could be 18 large for some of our coordinators who are 19 in regions that have a large number of 20 tribes they will potentially have to 21 negotiate with, we're given a three year 22 phase in period for this rule only for any 23 tribes, trust territories, and ancillary 24 areas, just to give time for us, to have 25 time for you all to get the availability 0025 1 2 analysis done and to also give us time to 3 negotiate the goals and get you used to the 4 process of how it works during that three 5 years. You want to have to do a lot of 6 education efforts to really make sure 7 everybody's on board. 8 And we're not saying that on the 9 last day of year 3 is we want people to get 10 started with the process. We would like for 11 those tribes who are able and have their 12 systems and everything in place and, you 13 know, and ready to, in place to negotiate 14 the goal, to go ahead and start we don't 15 want everybody on the last day, okay, I want 16 to come in and talk about and now we can do 17 this and figure something out. We want to 18 really have a phase in type of period and 19 we're working on exactly how we want to roll 20 that out and how we want to make sure that's 21 in a nice smooth place, so at the end of 22 that three year period, everybody's on board 23 and ready to go with the program. 24 Yes, sir. 25 MR. JOCK: Can you give us, like, 0026 1 2 let's say a term of reference or explanation 3 of what an availability analysis is and type 4 of information that we need, we need to 5 collect, let's say, if we're going to a 6 university or college nearby to get that 7 information? 8 MS. PATRICK: Yeah, in the rule and 9 also in the summary there's a brief 10 description of what it is. Usually for 11 most, for most areas it's based on census 12 data. We just had a census, what, back in 13 2000? 14 MR. SALAMON: 2000. 15 MS. PATRICK: Yeah, 2000' s the 16 latest census. That data is readily 17 available and it will give you sort of they 18 also track data in terms of the number of 19 minority and women owned businesses in certain 20 places and just the geographic areas broken 21 down geographic. Good place to start in 22 terms of the numbers. 23 You can also go to places like Pro 24 Net and SBA websites and sort of get an idea 25 of what the businesses are in your area, 0027 1 2 that's a start for gathering the information. 3 It really is an analysis of what's available 4 to you in terms of purchasing. 5 MR. SALAMON: Also, the New York 6 State DEC, they have a very good database by 7 categories. I don't, I don't have the 8 address, the address here, but it's through, 9 I  I will be able to  I can make it 10 available to you. It's through Ken Strider 11 ( phonetic) at the DEC and it's really an 12 excellent resource for getting that 13 information for minority businesses. 14 MS. PATRICK: And, also, I just 15 thought about something. Our office had a 16 contractor put together a wonderful 17 presentation explaining the availability 18 analysis and the goals. I'm going  when I 19 get back to the office, I'm going to see if 20 we can we have it posted on our website for 21 people to pull down. It really goes step by 22 step what  includes information you need to 23 gather. I'm going to try to make it 24 available on the website. It will answer 25 more of your questions than I probably could. 0028 1 2 I'm sort of not on that end of the business. 3 I have a general understanding of how it 4 works. That will help you a lot more. If 5 not, please contact me so I can send it to 6 you directly. 7 MS. COOK: That's a presentation on 8 what? 9 MS. PATRICK: On the availability 10 analysis and the negotiation goal. 11 MR. JOCK: Thank you. 12 MS. PATRICK: Sure. Let's see. 13 Race and gender conscious. to the extent 14 good faith efforts prove to be inadequate to 15 achieve the fair share goals for MBE's and 16 WBE's, we have at our disposal to encourage 17 a recipient or prime contractor to make 18 reasonable race and/ or gender conscious 19 efforts  I mean, action to the extent 20 necessary to more closely achieve the fair 21 share goals, including price incentives and 22 technical evaluation credits. When you're 23 going through your competitive bid process, 24 if you have one, to award your contracts, 25 the prior notification of the contemplated 0029 1 2 action to EPA is required. 3 So we sort of make sure that no 4 one's doing anything that's illegal or 5 something that's a little bit too gender 6 conscious in your actual efforts to meet the 7 goals. 8 Exemptions. We have built in a 9 number of exemptions, which I alluded to sort 10 of towards the introductory part of the 11 presentation. The first exemption is that 12 recipients of financial assistance agreements 13 in the amount of $ 250,000 or less for any 14 one fiscal year or a combined  I mean, I'm 15 sorry  for any one grant or combined total 16 of $ 250,000 over one fiscal year are exempt 17 from negotiation of goals. That exemption is 18 only for the negotiation of goals. It does 19 not exempt the recipient from doing 6 good 20 faith efforts. It does not exempt the 21 recipient from reporting. Only from 22 negotiating the goal. 23 So as a recipient, if your grant 24 totals for a year or if you have any single 25 grants that are under $ 250,000, you don't 0030 1 2 have to negotiate with us, okay. That 3 exemption also applies to the revolving loan 4 fund programs, clean water  I mean, Safe 5 Drinking Water, Brown Fields, et cetera. 6 We also have built in, other 7 exemptions, that are specific to tribes and 8 intertribal consortia. If your grants are 9 PPG eligible, not necessarily rolled into a 10 PPG but eligible to be rolled into a PPG, 11 which I think includes 17 or so grant 12 categories, those grants are exempted from 13 negotiation of goals, okay. Also, technical 14 assistance grants to tribes are exempt from 15 the negotiation of goals. 16 Once again, I must be very clear, 17 not exempt from the good faith efforts and 18 not exempt from reporting, but just from 19 negotiating with us. 20 One of the comments or body of 21 comments that we received when we went across 22 the country the first time with the draft 23 for many of the tribes was that doing the 24 negotiation of goals could be burdensome and 25 if we could somehow find a way to develop 0031 1 2 some exemptions or they really didn't want to 3 have to negotiate at all; but that's 4 something we couldn't do because we need to 5 make sure that the program is applicable to 6 everybody. But we found a way that we could 7 exemptions that we thought made sense both to 8 us, I mean to the agency and also to the 9 tribal community. And this is where we came 10 up with this body of exemptions. 11 For example, in Region 10, they have 12 2,277 tribes there. When we ran the numbers 13 to see how effective our exemptions would be, 14 once we backed out all the grants that are 15 under 250 and we backed out PPG eligible 16 grants, and we backed out all the TAG 17 grants, the number of negotiations that they 18 would have to do in Region 10 went from 19 2,277 to around 20. So we think that's a 20 very effective set of exemptions that we have 21 in place. 22 Our primary goal is to make sure we 23 really go after  not go after  we really 24 capture information from tribes who are 25 receiving large amounts of money because not 0032 1 2  we're not talking about very small grants 3 that are a lot of times it's used for 4 payrolls. So, instead of knowing payroll 5 process of negotiating and your four 6 categories to begin with, just didn't make 7 any sense and so what we're talking about 8 larger grant moneys. We know the probability 9 of doing some contracting, sometimes major 10 contracting is a lot higher and those numbers 11 we really want to capture for our reporting 12 purposes. So that's the reason why. 13 We talked about the three year 14 phase in period for the tribe areas. 15 Recordkeeping and reporting. We are 16 requiring that all recipients maintain a 17 bidder's list. A bidder's list will capture 18 the companies that have been on your projects 19 when you do your competitive process for 20 contracting. The bidder's list we hope will 21 develop into a very useful database of 22 sources for you in terms of negotiating what 23 your universe is and who's available to do 24 work. And it also gives us an opportunity 25 if we come out and do a review, to make 0033 1 2 sure to see that, you know, okay, the 3 practice is fair, was there a good number of 4 minority owned businesses on that bidder's 5 list and this, that, and the third. And 6 we're not going to donk you over the head if 7 it's not there. It's just a good body of 8 information to go back to as a resource, not 9 only for us but for you, so you don't have 10 to reinvent the wheel every time you go and 11 do a procurement or you go to and do a 12 solicitation. Final thing, the bidder's list 13 must be kept until the grant project period, 14 identified known or identified project is 15 completed. So once you close out the grant 16 that, so ends the bidder's list or once 17 you're finished with the project, if you're 18 talking about a revolving loan fund program, 19 then that concludes the bidder's list for 20 that particular project. Okay. 21 Waivers. In provisions such that 22 the OSDIBU director has the ability to grant 23 a waiver from some of the provisions of the 24 rule. The director can't grant waivers on 25 parts of the rule that are based on statute 0034 1 2 or executive order. We don't have that 3 authority. If it's in the statute or 4 executive order, we can't waive that 5 provision. Just to give you an idea of some 6 of the things that are in statutes or 7 executive orders, in terms of statute, we're 8 talking about the 6 good faith efforts and 9 the reporting requirements which will never 10 go away. There's not going to be an 11 exception from those things in terms of what 12 they can grant a waiver for, it's, it's some 13 of the other provisions of the rule. 14 Next steps. What's listed on your 15 next steps, currently we're sort of in the 16 middle of that now. It's 180 day process 17 for doing hearings and getting public 18 comment. There are a number of ways to get 19 your comments in to us. If you look at 20 your actual text of the rule which is this 21 one, on the Very first page as soon as you 22 open it up, Page 43824 list the different 23 ways you can submit comments. We will 24 accept them by fax, by Email, via the 25 website, in writing by snail mail, or anyway 0035 1 2 you can get them into us. Please, please, 3 please if later on you go back and read 4 this, you have some more burning questions or 5 comments, please submit them to us because 6 it's the only way this document can really 7 take shape in a, you know, to be the most 8 effective document we can make it. So, 9 please read through here and look at the 10 different ways you can make your comments and 11 get them back to us. 12 The comment period for the rule 13 closes on January 20th, 2004. So please 14 submit your comments before then. Don't wait 15 to the 19th, because I'm going through the 16 process now of as we go along, I'm trying to 17 go ahead and categorize them at least and 18 begin some responses. If they trickle in, 19 you know, over a nice even period of time, 20 that would be great for me; but I probably 21 know that I will get a load of comments on 22 the 20th at 4: 00 in the afternoon. That's 23 pretty much the way it works. Does anyone 24 have any questions of me, comments, concerns? 25 MR. ARQUETTE: I got one. 0036 1 2 MS. PATRICK: Sure. 3 MR. ARQUETTE: Will you accept 4 certification from businesses if they don't 5 have US citizenship? 6 MS. PATRICK: No, we will not. 7 Currently the way the rule is written is 8 that we follow SBA standards just to try and 9 create some uniformity. And SBA does require 10 US citizenship and the agency has made a 11 decision that we would stay with that 12 standard. 13 MR. ARQUETTE: The reason why I ask 14 is because a lot of our businesses at 15 Haudenosaunee, they don't consider us US 16 citizens. If they can't apply for a 17 certification from any of the other agencies, 18 if you state that they have to be US 19 citizens, which they're not, and we use them 20 because we know they're minority businesses 21 because they're Mohawks and they only  the 22 businesses and we got our equipment and 23 supplies from them, how do they get 24 certified, then, if they, if they can't state 25 that they're US citizens? 0037 1 2 MS. PATRICK: Well, currently they 3 would not be able to get certified at all. 4 Not through us and not through SBA, either. 5 and through many of the state programs they 6 wouldn't be able to get certified, as well. 7 DOT does accept, what is it, the terminology 8 naturalized, not naturalized, it's another 9 word I can't think of it; but it's something 10 that's not quite full US citizen. But DOT 11 will accept that. But I'm really not  12 they wouldn't be able to be certified. Not 13 that you could not use them. Like I said, 14 if it makes the best business sense for you 15 to go with those companies, then you continue 16 to do that. They just wouldn't be able to 17 count towards whatever goal would be 18 established for you. 19 Yes, ma'am. 20 MS. COOK: So, our tribe, our 21 division isn't currently housed in the Saint 22 Regis Mohawk Tribal Building, the 23 administration building, they don't have room 24 for us there. So, we're in a position where 25 we have to rent office space and that's also 0038 1 2 on the, on the reservation and we're probably 3 only 3 miles from the administration 4 building; but how would that work in terms 5 of our landlords are obviously Mohawk and 6 they reside probably 30 feet from our actual 7 building; but how would they go about getting 8 certified as individuals, you know, because 9 they're not a multi million dollar enterprise 10 or anything like that, but  and they're 11 not a real business, so to speak? 12 MS. PATRICK: Right. My, I'm just 13 sitting here trying to think in my mind if 14 renting space is considered construction 15 services, equipment, or supplies. I think an 16 argument could be made that it does not fit 17 in those four categories. If that is the 18 case and isn't it like an allowable cost 19 under a grant? 20 MR. SALAMON: Indirect cost. 21 MS. PATRICK: Indirect cost. 22 MR. SALAMON: Indirect, they're 23 negotiated indirect costs in the grant. 24 MS. PATRICK: Wouldn't that be a 25 certain percentage that he could use for the 0039 1 2 administrative grant so you wouldn't have to 3 report that, anyway? See what I'm saying, I 4 think it would be outside the four categories 5 I listed also on top of that part of that 6 percentage you can use out of your grant 7 money for administrative types of costs so, 8 in essence, your landlord wouldn't have to be 9 certified because it doesn't count within 10 those four categories anyway. 11 MS. COOK: It does because we pay 12 it out of there. 13 MS. PATRICK: Right, but it's part 14 of the administrative indirect costs. 15 MS. COOK: No, it's not. 16 MS. PATRICK: You don't do it that 17 way? 18 MR. SALAMON: You don't have 19 negotiated indirect cost? 20 MS. COOK: Yes, our rent doesn't 21 come out of there. 22 MS. PATRICK: Your rent is coming 23 out of the pot, I would say it doesn't fit 24 in those four categories. I don't see how 25 renting space  0040 1 2 MR. SALAMON: What's covered under 3 your indirect costs, electricity? 4 MS. COOK: Yes. 5 MR. JOCK: Heat, those are for all 6 tribally owned facilities. This is not a 7 tribal owned facility, so that's why it's not 8 covered under indirect. 9 MS. PATRICK: It's not construction, 10 could be equipment. 11 MR. SALAMON: But a portion of the 12 grant that your, a portion of the grant 13 would be covered by that, wouldn't it, it 14 would be the indirect cost rate. 15 MR. JOCK: We have it listed as a 16 direct cost as office space rental. 17 MR. SALAMON: As office space 18 rental. 19 MR. JOCK: Yes. 20 MS. COOK: Yes. 21 MR. SALAMON: As a direct cost. 22 MS. COOK: It's a direct cost, so 23 why shouldn't we be able to report that as 24 part of your WBE/ MBE? 25 MS. PATRICK: Currently you can. 0041 1 2 Once the rule goes into effect  3 MS. COOK: They would have to be 4 certified, you're saying in order to use 5 that. 6 MS. PATRICK: You could still use 7 them but in order for them to count, they 8 would have to be certified. 9 MS. COOK: How would they go about 10 being certified? 11 MS. PATRICK: They could go through 12 the process and apply through the agency 13 directly, through the EPA directly to get 14 certified. 15 MS. COOK: That would be you, Otto, 16 they would have an application that they 17 would fill out? 18 MR. SALAMON: An application. 19 MS. PATRICK: Yes, for certification. 20 MS. COOK: How would they go about 21 being certified? 22 MS. PATRICK: We're planning to at 23 least have our coordinators have the 24 applications and be able to disseminate them. 25 The application could come back to 0042 1 2 headquarters. 3 They fill out the application for 4 certification and if the situation is as you 5 described it, I couldn't see a reason why 6 they would be denied that certification. It 7 seems as though it's just, you know, 8 something that would probably not have an 9 issue in getting through. I'm sure that the 10 750 net worth requirement is probably lower 11 than that and I don't think that would be a 12 problem, but the process, yes, there is an 13 application process for certification when you 14 go directly through the agency. We have 15 forms that are specific for tribally owned 16 concerns and businesses and so those, those 17 forms, by the way, are I think right now 18 they're going through an ONB sort of approval 19 type process and they're going to have to 20 also be commented on and put there and this 21 that and the third and the hopefully this 22 will caught up to this process in the next 23 few months but, yes, there will be this one 24 process and they could get certified. 25 MR. SALAMON: You will be sending it 0043 1 2 to me and I will be sending to the OSDIBU. 3 Okay. 4 MS. PATRICK: Any other questions? 5 MS. LaFRANCE: My name is Brenda 6 LaFrance. I work for the Environmental Task 7 Force. And I think there's a larger issue 8 for the women people because of the US 9 citizen requirement. And we're an agency of 10 the Haudenosaunee, so Dave and I can't 11 actually speak for our counsel. However, I 12 believe that this is going to be a very 13 troublesome issue for the Haudenosaunee people 14 because on treaty rights and on historical 15 agreements, Haudenosaunee are not US citizens; 16 however, they operate within, you know, what 17 you call the United States government. So, 18 I think that's, they will probably be making 19 comment on this issue. 20 MS. PATRICK: Okay. 21 MS. LaFRANCE: And maybe looking for 22 an exemption like you provided exemptions for 23 the other areas. 24 MS. PATRICK: Okay. Thanks for 25 giving me that. Okay. 0044 1 2 Any other comments, questions? Okay. 3 If later on, you do have other questions, 4 you have my business cards, you can call and 5 ask and, also, please provide your comments. 6 You had a question, sir? 7 MR. JOCK: You mentioned that tribal 8 government could certify MBE/ WBE, also. 9 MS. PATRICK: If a tribal government 10 has a program in place  some of them do 11  sometimes your  what is it your, I 12 can't think of what it is now, is it the, 13 the territory. Sometimes some territories do 14 have some things like, you know, buy Indian 15 first types of things. Some have some type 16 of certification and some tribes do that, 17 they will certify their tribally owned 18 businesses. In those instances where a tribe 19 has a program set up to certify those own 20 businesses, we will accept those 21 certifications, as long as they meet what our 22 criteria is for certification. 23 MR. JOCK: Okay. 24 MS. PATRICK: Anything else? Okay. 25 We're done early. Thank you very much. 0045 1 2 That will end the session. Thank you for 3 your time. 4 ( Whereupon the proceedings were 5 concluded at this time.) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0046 1 2 CERTIFICATE 3 4 I, DIANE MARTENS, Court Reporter and 5 Notary Public in and for the State of New 6 York, DO HEREBY CERTIFY that I attended the 7 foregoing proceedings, took stenographic notes 8 of the same, that the foregoing is a true 9 and correct copy of same and the whole 10 thereof. 11 12 13 ________________________________ 14 Diane Martens 15 16 Dated: December 9, 2003. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25


[Federal Register Volume 79, Number 134 (Monday, July 14, 2014)]
[Notices]
[Pages 40761-40762]
[FR Doc No: 2014-16358]

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DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

Food and Drug Administration

[Docket No. FDA-2014-N-0001]

Joint Meeting of the Bone, Reproductive and Urologic Drugs
Advisory Committee and the Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory
Committee

AGENCY: Food and Drug Administration, HHS.

ACTION: Notice.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

    This notice announces a forthcoming meeting of a public advisory
committee of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The meeting will
be open to the public.
    Name of Committees: Bone, Reproductive and Urologic Drugs Advisory
Committee and the Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory Committee.
    General Function of the Committees: To provide advice and
recommendations to the Agency on FDA's regulatory issues.
    Date and Time: The meeting will be held on September 17, 2014, from
8 a.m. to 5 p.m.
    Location: College Park Marriott Hotel and Conference Center, 3501
University Blvd., Hyattsville, MD 20783. The hotel's telephone number
is<PHONE_NUMBER>.
    Contact Person: Kalyani Bhatt, Center for Drug Evaluation and
Research, Food and Drug Administration, 10903 New Hampshire Ave., Bldg.
31, Rm. 2417, Silver Spring, MD 20993-0002,<PHONE_NUMBER>, FAX: 301-847-
8533<EMAIL_ADDRESS>or FDA Advisory Committee Information Line,
1-800-741-8138<PHONE_NUMBER> in the Washington, DC area). A notice in
the Federal Register about last minute modifications that impact a
previously announced advisory committee meeting cannot always be
published quickly enough to provide timely notice. Therefore, you
should always check the Agency's Web site at http://www.fda.gov/AdvisoryCommittees/default.htm and scroll down to the appropriate
advisory committee meeting link, or call the advisory committee
information line to learn about possible modifications before coming to
the meeting.
    Agenda: The committees will discuss the appropriate indicated
population for testosterone replacement therapy and the potential for
adverse cardiovascular outcomes associated with this use.
    FDA intends to make background material available to the public no
later

than 2 business days before the meeting. If FDA is unable to post the
background material on its Web site prior to the meeting, the
background material will be made publicly available at the location of
the advisory committee meeting, and the background material will be
posted on FDA's Web site after the meeting. Background material is
available at http://www.fda.gov/AdvisoryCommittees/Calendar/default.htm. Scroll down to the appropriate advisory committee meeting
link.
    Procedure: Interested persons may present data, information, or
views, orally or in writing, on issues pending before the committee.
Written submissions may be made to the contact person on or before
September 3, 2014. Oral presentations from the public will be scheduled
between approximately 1 p.m. and 2 p.m. Those individuals interested in
making formal oral presentations should notify the contact person and
submit a brief statement of the general nature of the evidence or
arguments they wish to present, the names and addresses of proposed
participants, and an indication of the approximate time requested to
make their presentation on or before August 25, 2014. Time allotted for
each presentation may be limited. If the number of registrants
requesting to speak is greater than can be reasonably accommodated
during the scheduled open public hearing session, FDA may conduct a
lottery to determine the speakers for the scheduled open public hearing
session. The contact person will notify interested persons regarding
their request to speak by August 26, 2014.
    Persons attending FDA's advisory committee meetings are advised
that the Agency is not responsible for providing access to electrical
outlets.
    FDA welcomes the attendance of the public at its advisory committee
meetings and will make every effort to accommodate persons with
physical disabilities or special needs. If you require special
accommodations due to a disability, please contact Kalyani Bhatt at
least 7 days in advance of the meeting.
    FDA is committed to the orderly conduct of its advisory committee
meetings. Please visit our Web site at http://www.fda.gov/AdvisoryCommittees/AboutAdvisoryCommittees/ucm111462.htm for procedures
on public conduct during advisory committee meetings.
    Notice of this meeting is given under the Federal Advisory
Committee Act (5 U.S.C. app. 2).

    Dated: July 8, 2014.
Leslie Kux,
Assistant Commissioner for Policy.
[FR Doc. 2014-16358 Filed 7-11-14; 8:45 am]
BILLING CODE 4164-01-P


BEFORE THE

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

WASHINGTON, D.C.

Notice of

MESABA AVIATION, INC.

	d/b/a MESABA AIRLINES

of intent to terminate service at Lafayette,

Indiana pursuant to 49 U.S.C. § 41734

and 14 C.F.R. § 323

	)

)

)

)

)

)

)

)

)

)	Docket OST-02-

Dated:  September 18, 2002

NOTICE OF TERMINATION OF SERVICE AT

Lafayette, indiana

Mesaba Aviation, Inc. d/b/a Mesaba Airlines (“Mesaba”) hereby submits notice, pursuant to 49 U.S.C § 41734 and 14 C.F.R. § 323.3, of its intent to terminate service to Lafayette, Indiana, effective December 18, 2002.  Mesaba provides this service as Northwest Airlink.  In support of this Notice, Mesaba states the following:

1.	Mesaba is a certificated air carrier, whose corporate office is located at:

		7501 26th Avenue South

		Minneapolis, MN  55450

<PHONE_NUMBER>.

2.	Communications with respect to this Notice should be directed to:

		Robert E. Weil

Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Mesaba Airlines

7501 26th Avenue South

		Minneapolis, MN  55450

<PHONE_NUMBER>

FAX:<PHONE_NUMBER>

3.	No other carrier is currently serving Lafayette, Indiana from a large or medium hub. (BRAD, CONFIRM  TRUE).   The Department, however, cannot require continuation of service to Lafayette beyond the 90-day termination notice period because Lafayette is located 61 highway miles from a medium hub airport: Indianapolis International Airport.

4.	The routing and schedule of the service that Mesaba is terminating on December 18, 2002 is as follows:

From		Departure	To		Arrival	FrequencyDTW		13:50		YNG		15:42		Daily one stop via CAK

DTW		19:50		YNG		20:52		Daily one stop via CAK

DTW               1604		LAF		1631		Daily nonstop

DTW		1925		LAF		1951		Daily nonstop except Sat

YNG		16:05		DTW		17:59		Daily one stop via CAK

YNG		07:30		DTW		09:25		Daily one stop via CAK

LAF		0640		DTW		0910		Daily nonstop

LAF		1735		DTW		1955		Daily nonstop except Sat

5.	Mesaba operates these flights with Saab SF340 aircraft (30 - 34 passenger seats).

6.	Mesaba intends to terminate Lafayette service on December 18, 2002.

7.	In 1983, the Department determined that the level of essential air service for Lafayette, Indiana is two daily nonstop roundtrips to/from Chicago providing a minimum of 62 seats in each direction.  Order 83-6-3 (June 1, 1983).  In 1999, however, the Department determined that it could not subsidize any carrier serving Lafayette because this community is 61 highway miles from Indianapolis International Airport, a medium hub.  Order 99-6-21 (June 25, 1999).  Because the Department is unable to subsidize service to/from Lafayette, it cannot require any carrier to continue serving the community beyond the 90-day termination notice period.   Id.  The Department, nevertheless, continues to require notice of service termination, and Mesaba is complying with this notice requirement.

8.	The effective date of this Notice is September 18, 2002.  Objections to this Notice are due within 20 days of this Notice.

9.	As required by 14 C.F.R. § 323.7(a), this Notice is being served upon all persons listed on the attached service list.

Respectfully submitted,

/s/ Robert E. Weil /s/

Robert E. Weil

Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

MESABA AIRLINES

7501 26TH Avenue South

Minneapolis, MS  55450

(612) 726-5151

Dated:  September 18, 2002

SERVICE LIST

On this 18th day of September 2002, a copy of this NOTICE OF TERMINATION was served by first class mail, postage prepaid, upon each of the persons below:

Dennis DeVany, Chief

EAS and Domestic Analysis, X-53

U.S. Department of Transportation

400 Seventh Street, S.W.

Room 6417I

Washington, D.C.  20590

	Robert Stroud

Manager

Lafayette Purdue University Airport

Terminal Building #104

Airport Road W

Lafayette, IN  47906

Mayor David Heath

City of Lafayette

City Hall

Lafayette, IN  47906

(…continued)

(continued…)

NOTICE OF TERMINATION OF

MESABA AIRLINES

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