Good afternoon, everyone. This is the Thursday, February 23rd meeting of the joint capital planning committee. And since we are conducting this meeting remotely, I need to make first off, sure that we, everyone can see and be heard. We have a quorum of the committee here.  Here. Barbara. Here. Mandy. And the only person we're missing and I'll make sure he can hear in her is her roads. So Sean, I'm going to turn it over to you and I see that. Police. Multiple people have joined us, including Paul. So I don't know whether you want us to introduce ourselves in terms of where each of us come from, but we have a lot on today's agenda so I'll let I'll allow you to guide us. I think we can just get moving. Jeremiah. I think everyone was here last year so the only new member Pam Rooney is from the council. So quick introduction there. So I'm going to turn over to Jeremiah he's going to guide us through the facility town facility projects. So we get what we're going to skip the energy sustainability for now because I've invited Stephanie Chickarello to come. So after we get through all the other facility projects will come back to the energy sustainability project and I imagine Stephanie will be here by that point. So with that, I will turn it over to Jeremiah just to start going through. You know what you submitted Jeremiah if you want me to kind of queue you up on what project is next let me know. But the first one is the interior interior exterior maintenance and ADA improvements for $200,000. Sean just one quick item of business I have to ask of the committee for someone to volunteer to take minutes. And there will be a zoom recording of this so if I can get get a minute take her retroactively as need be but Alex just take minutes. Okay, thank you Mandy. As she raises her hand in the cast. Sean is, is there a way that I can share my screen I put together a slide show I do it every year so it just helps me. Yeah, go thoughts. You can go ahead, you should be able to share it now. Is it giving you any issues. No, just okay good. Thank you. All right. So here's my little slide show. So, unfortunately, Sean these, these are not in order I just kind of put put them in there so it won't be in order that you have, but we will get through all of them. Okay, so the the first one I have here is the central station kitchen renovation for the Amherst fire department, the request is for $30,000. As you can see, part of their kitchen. It is a well worn kitchen that helps support our first responders central fire does have most of our career first responders there. So that is being used 24 hours. I did look at the kitchen itself to see if we could just kind of spruce it up and fix it up, but we do have issues with drawers falling apart countertops delaminating so so the intent would be to fully fix the cabinetry and the countertops to to provide a more functional design and kitchen for the firefighters. Here's some additional photos. You can see the just all of it is sort of spread out so I think that I could do a better job of kind of getting it together and helping them because storage is a premium as well. Okay, the next item is the town hall HVAC upgrades. So the initial the original request there was an original request in there and and I'm asking for some additional money and the reason for that additional money is is to not not replace the the furnaces the natural gas fired furnaces with just high efficiency fossil fuel burning equipment the the intent would be to eliminate the equip that natural gas fired equipment and replace it with electrified units and and to do that would would require some additional funding. The the equipment has most certainly reached its end of life it has given us everything and really owes us nothing. We've had a number of issues. Nothing catastrophic with the equipment but but I really need to get them replaced before it becomes a bigger disasters. And I will say I know Stephanie was is going to join one of the pieces. I'll just sort of speak on her behalf is is, unless she's in a room I don't know. No, no. We are working with she's coming over Jeremiah just brought her. Okay, I'll put her in a hot seat right away then. I was, I was joined as just an attendee but in any case yeah, Jeremiah and I have actually been talking about the goals for the climate action plan, and one of the main goals is to electrify municipal buildings and get them off fossil fuels. So, town hall would be a really, really great first project to begin with, for so many reasons, I mean on top of the fact that you know the system is at the end of its life it's also, you know, a very symbolic building in which to start off with moving off fossil fuels. It feels like a really exciting opportunity. So we have had some collaboration and this was again like one of the things that we identified as a as a priority. Yeah, I think it's important to show both the town employees and in the community that even in a building that was built, you know, over 100 years ago we can still push these climate action goals and and eliminate the fossil fuels so it doesn't have to be a brand new building as you're building it with the latest and greatest we can we can make these changes to our old buildings. So, I will. So I see Alex's hand is up shown do you want us to ask questions as he goes through, or do you want a way to the end. I think it would be best to go project by project and to see if there's any questions so Jeremiah I guess if when you're done with a particular project if you just want to see if there's questions on that project that would be the best. Sure. Okay. Alex. Thanks. So, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, so the original cost was 140,000 and this is 228. Okay. If I'm not mistaken. So you're converting this system, can you talk a little bit about what that means, and I obviously am speaking from a place of what does it mean to convert a system from natural gas equipment that it's increasing your costs. So just understanding that. Yeah, so so that the original funding that was put in was put in submitted to the joint capital committee, some time ago. I think when that money was put in there that the thought was to just replace it with high efficiency natural gas fired furnaces. That that would be my guess I didn't get to see any of that older paperwork but that would be my guess just based on the cost, because that amount really does sort of align itself with with putting in the gas fired furnaces. And what I intend to look at and would like to do is, is well you would take that equipment out and we would look at some equipment that might be able to replace it so we we've heard of our mini splits and air source heat pumps, we have water source heat pumps as well so, and it would be it would be like those mini splits that you have. We're still pulling heat extract and heat from the outside air and heating up that loop water. So instead of you know they're being a flame that's that's heating up this this coil that, and that's providing the water heat to the building. We're doing it through electricity we're just we're doing it through a condenser. So, I don't know exactly what the equipment might look like. As of yet that would have to be engineered and designed to ensure that we can adequately heat the building with that type of equipment. But, but that would be the intent to just eliminate that equipment and put in something like air source heat pump or heat pump chiller, something like that in its place to provide the heat throughout the season, the heating season. Could I follow up Kathy. Yeah. Okay, so again, Jeremiah you know that I'm in no way an HVAC person and being dragged into this information trying to understand these things because of the library but my understanding so I guess my question is, is the 228 for the estimate for the design and the replacement like I know some of the challenges we're dealing with at the library is, you know, you can't, you can't, you can't use, you can't heat to the same temperature needed I guess using the electric that you can off the natural gas I think and so we in our building warm enough is my understanding, but also because we have an old building as this town hall, like we've done everything we can to seal the building but I live in a converted barn and I can tell you my heat pumps don't work once it's it's just not tightly sealed enough so I guess is this sort of like an intro number and we could probably expect once you figure it out that you're going to come back and do more or like, what does this number really mean and should we expect it more for next year or whenever it would be a design build project so when we go out to bid for this, there would be as part of it, the contractor would be sort of designing designing the system and doing the install. Yes, there is some challenges with heat pump systems. Particularly they can only heat water up to 140 degrees. But, but you, what needs to happen prior to a project like this is you need to figure out how hot does the water need to be. So everyone just with commercial systems. Everyone says we were going to we're going to just push 100 180 degrees. That's what we're going to push 180 degrees. You may never need 180 degrees, but you also need to figure out how what's the lowest possible temperature that water can be in order to have a comfortable space and that's because ultimately that's what you're trying to do is provide a comfortable space for the staff and for the community. If you can achieve that 100 at 140 degree loop temperature, well then you've done it. It's an easy, it's an easy solution. If you figured out that you need 160 degrees, well then how do we, how do we account for that 20 degree differential. So what you could do is put buffer tanks and that have electric heat.  That's heats up the water through an electric coil. So that that's how we, we sort of get the temperatures that we need, but, but there is it does take some work in this winter I have been slowly dropping my loop temperature from that generic 180 degrees that everyone sets them at to see to see about what temperature I can get away with. So as soon as I get the complaints that come in say I'm just not feeling that warm. Then I know that I've probably reached my lowest point. So part of a big process. Hey, why don't you go before me and then I'm, you may ask the same question I'm going to ask so. Mine, mine's a fairly basic question I noticed on the sheet you filled out the, I don't know what we're calling these sheets but but the, the information sheet that you indicated that this wouldn't have necessarily an impact on the operating budget. So do you expect a new system to cost the same or more to run than the natural gas system we currently have. If anything it may cost a little bit more. And I would have to, I would have to do the calculations on that and to provide some more accurate information. But really we're just swapping out we'll call it fuel sources so we're get we're eliminating natural gas, but we're increasing our electric costs. So what what that looks like I don't I don't really know and that's that's why I just put that because I couldn't I couldn't tell you I couldn't tell you, I just think it's, you know, we're eliminating the fossil fuel which is huge. My question I think is simple you said we, we'd allocated 140 is this 288 in addition so is the total cost to 68, or do we subtract the earlier 140 and is the incremental costs, whatever. It would be the incremental cost. Okay, so in terms of art in terms of Sean's sheet where he shouldn't be subtracting 228. Jeremiah clarify for him. So we have 140,000 my understanding was the difference between the 140,000 and the 228 was going to be a green communities grant. Is that right. We, we are still working on the green communities grants so the 228. I think that I will, I, I increase the amount because I think that we're going to need in order to go fully eliminate the, the natural gas that it's, it's going to cost more than the 145. And it may cost more than this 228. My thought is, is this is what this is what I suspect I would need. And if we could get additional money from green communities, then that could help us offset offset the cost. Okay, well off the coordinate because earlier conversations where the difference between the 228 and the 140 was, was the green communities grant but we can, we can update them. So, Sean, if you could update it because it also since we're over budget for the current year it matters whether this is 228 148 or something less. And then my follow up question and it's generic, and I don't expect an answer Jeremiah and Stephanie. But there is a new provision because of the change in the federal tax code that allows public non otherwise non taxable entities to get a direct payment in lieu of a credit. And it includes things like air source heat pumps. So, you know, I don't expect that you would account for that right now but it's up to 30% of the cost so it's, it's not an insignificant and then what is the costs that you can calculate, but it's on the books in the federal code so as yet, no one's applied for it because it went on the books in January 2023. But just shown if you could, because again it matters for this balancing act you're trying to do. That's my question question and a comment. I'm going to go to the corner with Jeremiah and verify what numbers are correct one and then we'll update the deficit so before you guys do your deliberation to Pam. So, given this, this dependence on electricity for not just the lights in the building now the heat do is there a backup generator at town hall. Yes, there is. And it's sufficient to cover the, the heat pumps that will be pushing hot water through the building right. It would, it would have to be looked at and they were, they would have to be some calculations to ensure that it can support that. I think that ends the questions for this job. So, so Kathy I might propose a slight adjustment which is maybe we go through all the projects and then open up for questions I just want to make sure we not these are good questions I just want to make sure we do get done by two o'clock or so so we can get to the other departments as well. So do you want to go ahead to the next go through the rest of your projects Jeremiah. Okay, so the next is the Amherst police department server room and telecom room HVAC replacement. So, so both of those spaces have air source cooling systems so they're cooling only because we don't need to ever really provide eat in those spaces. We just house all of our telecom equipment for fire and and the police, as well as our main servers for the town. In this image you can see the condensers. One of the issues is the fact that they're all indoors with them being indoors their efficiency has dramatically been reduced. For months, this room gets incredibly hot and some of that that he is because of this, this equipment to ensure that the equipment runs appropriately, they really do need to be moved outside. Beyond that, we have experienced a number of failures to the systems. These are old systems still running on a pretty toxic refrigerant that has been phased out. So, by eliminating this equipment, we would have much more efficient equipment. We'd also be eliminating the use of the R 22 refrigerant. And we would ensure that both of these, these rooms or three of these rooms are being cooled appropriately so we won't have any large system failures. Here's just some other pictures. On this one, some additional information. I, this is the one that I mentioned last time. We may be doing some of this now because of because of the urgency with which it needs to be done and we're looking at the existing town town like capital money that we have so this is one that might actually be reduced. Yes, when you come back for your deliberation and I think it might be, you know, roughly half of this when we come back. So just as a heads up. Yep. Some more images. And here we are with all buildings interior and exterior improvements. So the request is for $200,000. So it's general ongoing repairs needed for all the town town buildings, just to ensure that the facilities are, you know, adequately maintained. We can improve a lot of our different spaces. And also with this money, I'm using it to again kind of push forward some of our sustainability goals. It's, it's sort of, it's, we do have the sustainability money for specific projects. But when we look at say something like the town hall boilers, you know, when, when we're trying to find the best equipment available, or the most energy efficient. This, this obviously helps. So some of the different things is just the wall ceiling flooring HVAC electrical plumbing. So throughout I go through the buildings and see where we can so the image here is a very small bathroom over at central fire. It definitely needs some updating it also needs to grow in size but unfortunately I can't do that. Some more issues you could see with some brickwork. The other image has some brickwork as well some glazing issues, lighting, improving the lighting and some of the buildings. So doing an LED retrofit or replacements. I've been using this for exterior envelope repairs and replacements had to replace some doors on buildings hardware security, adding some levels of security. So that's generally what what this money has been used for and I will say, out of all of the capital requests. One is so helpful. It really does help me able to to make some big improvements at at Amherst police department right now we're looking at updating the report room. So in that process I was looking at well the flooring could use getting done and this could use getting done and if I'm working in this one room. What about growing the project a little bit more and taking care of some of these other spaces that are desperately in need of of renovations and that's where this money has come in use and taking these smaller projects and just kind of roaming into something much greater. Okay, so the next project is the town hall reception windows. So at town hall we have for service counters. And at the beginning of the onset of the pandemic. There was a request to put up some polycarbonate sheets and plexiglass to help create some separation some safety between, you know, the community and in our town staff. And I'll have to say that the staff really did appreciate having those those windows up. So what I'd like to do is is take those semi permanent ones down and put in something that is more permanent. So it would look like a more traditional service counter, potentially like aluminum frame safety glass. That's in there so just just trying to take away some of these these items and and put in something that's much more lasting. And real quick, this project isn't shown separately on the plan anywhere because when we're making a review and everything we determined this would come out of the 200,000 for sort of general repairs so you won't see this as a separate item on the list of projects but it was submitted as a request. Okay, months and library fire alarm system. This this image does not represent the months and library I just found a fun image, because we don't have a fire alarm system at at months and so months and is is a multi use facility that houses the library meeting rooms in our large community hall. And the request is to for funding to get a fire alarm system installed just to make the building much more safe for the occupants. And this was looked at several years ago, and the costs were relatively low. This is pre pandemic. But during the pandemic, I went out to bed on on this project and found out that the cost of this is increased dramatically. So with this money, I would be able to put in a fire alarm system and have that emergency notification. Okay, Amherst childcare parking lot. So this is just an it's a it's age so the part of parking lot at the Amherst childcare center is starting to deteriorate there's a lot of cracking. Experiences and potholes and trying to repair those. So the request here is for 50,000 to make some of these repairs and repave areas of the parking lot to make them safe for the community that's occupying the building and the staff. So basic APD roof. This is the $300,000 capital project. The shingles on the police department are essentially at end of life. It's a it was a basic asphalt shingle that was applied to the building. We are experiencing some some areas that have some leaking. And really what the the intent is is to get that that roof re shingled. And while doing that I think it's important we we've had this sort of standing sort of interest to see if there's a potential for solar for that building. So if we we get the roof where we're sort of taking care of two things one, we're maintaining the building we're ensuring that no interior is is damaged from any of this leaking. It's, it's just good for that asset, but it also creates a sort of clean slate so if we do find that there is it is a good site for solar, or we have a clean roof. So that that can accept it banks community center remodeling. I'm not sure of any of you or all of you got to go up to the upper level of the banks community center and saw our new crest department. But we we were able to renovate most of the the upper floor of the banks community center update the flooring. We did some demolition to the walls, created some some new work work areas and office spaces for the crest department so the request would be for $50,000 to continue that that work for the area that was left untouched and I have it on our blueprint here and it's within that bright bright red rectangle so there's not a lot of space. What I'd like to see is, is open that all the way up so demo a lot of those walls get them out of there redo the ceiling grid installed energy efficient, you know, LED lighting, and didn't and have one big space that we can use it can be used for meeting meeting space conference area, or if we find a need for office space in the future, it could always be sort of dissected into something different. So I'd like to to. Oh, and I saw that I did not update the bottom part so there's. So yes, that's, that's the banks community center remodeling. And the last slide is Stephanie slide really it's energy sustainability project improvements for 200,000. Sean I'm not sure if you want me to answer questions regarding my request before me. Stephanie why don't you do this one, and then we'll open up for all facility related questions. Thanks, Sean. Yeah, so this funding is really kind of broadly for for the town capital project so it's not just the facilities really it's also addressing the need for some gap funding for instance when we're trying to purchase as we did with the ambulance. There's a vehicle purchase that could be paid more sustainable by adding anti idling technology so this funding helps bridge those gaps for when we have those requests, also for some building projects as well. So, you know, Jeremy and Jeremy and I have talked about some of the projects you can some of the building projects if there's an opportunity to, to cover a gap in funding for again moving towards inefficiency we could use some of this funding to support that as well. Some of this, you know, some of this funding is also being used for community gardens and conservation we're developing a few community gardens within the community where we have residents that are getting more actively engaged and involved for instance the Port River Farm Community Garden. So these projects are pretty broad it's not just about facilities. But it does cover really to help some of those, those gaps in funding that can really help us move towards more greater efficiencies. Stephanie is it okay if I share your FY 23 budget. I think we got a question on that and I know you did a nice job itemizing it so let me. Yeah, do you want to stop sharing for a second chairman. Yeah. So this was the budget that Stephanie put together for the FY 23 funds so we talked about how it's supporting some of our vehicle purchases to include hybrid technology the hope is that going forward. So the vehicle requests will already include this technology so Stephanie won't have to use these funds to supplement them that will just sort of be built in as sort of the norm going forward but that wasn't the case. This past year so we've got three vehicle, different types of vehicles. Stephanie probably can explain these three, however you walk me through with these were over at the wastewater treatment facility. Yep. So the, so the DPW staff had reached out about these projects that would sort of, again, introduce mechanical systems that would be more efficient fuel efficient and or replace the block at the block heater and heat pump would replace fossil fuel systems. But there were technologies that you know they didn't actually have the funding for so they were requesting some support for those so I felt they certainly fun fell under this category. The utility tricycles I have to tell you are probably my most favorite and all of the requests that are here, because there are staff at the wastewater treatment plant plant who felt that they use pickup trucks to drive around the facility to be lugging equipment back and forth. And to employees felt that you know they could use these utility tricycles that have baskets and carts so that they could actually, you know, right around the, the, you know the facility and sort of be able to accommodate, the needs without having to get into a truck and use gasoline to drive around the complex so I thought this was fantastic because not only am I the sustainability coordinator but I'm also on the town's wellness team. And so this just sort of hits a couple of categories where we've got people who want to actually, you know, riding bicycles around the or tricycles around to sort of do their job was just a great win win so I'm really happy to put this in for our request. And then town hall insulation speaks for itself. You know, again if we're going to be moving into installing heat pump technology then we certainly want to be able to better insulate the building for a better performance of that equipment. And then similarly months and library insulation is the same. Same reasons we want to put in heat pump technology in those facilities as well but we need to make sure that they're well insulated before you add that technology in. And then community gardens as I mentioned earlier. The funding would specifically be for the Fort River community garden where we need to put in a backup water system we did put in a hand pump well but we need a cistern to really act as an additional source of water for the gardening season we were we just barely squeak to buy last summer towards the end of the season we had a drought period and the water was running pretty low, they still had water but it was very low, but we were lucky that it didn't just stop. So the cistern would be a backup system. The gardeners did have some problems with deer getting in so we need some deer fencing. And then you know we need just sort of the infrastructure to support the cistern like a base and so there's just costs that come up and they do add up pretty quickly so that was what that funding is all for. So, I think now it's good to open up for questions on any of the facility projects. Andy. Yeah, I just had a question on the reception window upgrades. When I heard security I thought it was a different type of security than you were describing and so I have some more questions on that is it more coven related security or is it security concerns from visitors to town hall that is sort of pushing this upgrade and then. I guess one of my questions is will this make town hall feel less welcoming and if so are there other ways to create and do that security that doesn't necessarily, you know, cause that potential unwelcoming feeling. Yeah, that's, that's good and that is something that I've, I've considered quite a bit. Before the pandemic, there was a committee a group of individuals that got together and we're discussing the sort of the safety of town hall, because prior to putting up the polycarbonate sheets, you had these very large openings and the staff sort of expressed their, their concerns that well any, maybe I rate individual can just very easily hop right over the counter and then be within their, their space, where the rest of the staff is having the polycarbonate sheets is was more so for COVID. And that's, that's to help with reopening the building. So now what what the request is, is to try to find somewhere in between so sort of honoring that that safety concerns that the staff brought up, and also having these sort of health, the health risks, also being taken care of. As you're saying, my, my concern would be, you know, what, what does it feel like when you walk into the building, and does it feel like we're, we're, we're defensive rather than welcoming. And I think, I think we can. And it'd be sort of careful consideration with the design and the overall look. If, if it feels institutional. And then I think that's going to be the sort of the feeling that that is portrayed to the community so I, it'll just have to be carefully considered I think but I think that there's a meaningful way to do it, and sort of check all the boxes. Yeah, I want me to go next. Yeah. Okay. Two, two general questions and it applies to just about everything that we're going to be talking about with JCPC I think do we have a total deferred maintenance amount that that our facilities have racked up, or that are in need. And ultimately, in terms of being able to implement these projects. It occurs to me that our decision that are passing a budget comes at a time which is really late I mean since the budget starts on July one. We should have already had bids in hand. The, you know best bids are attained during usually winter months for any kind of outside construction. And so our process here actually support getting good bids and the timing of them. I can answer the second one Jeremiah if you want, just because it applies to everything. I think it doesn't but that's usually why you won't see projects completed the first year that they're here usually takes that two to three year timeframe to complete projects. So a lot of times when the funding was available. You'll see the bidding happen that fall or that winter, and then the project will be done the following year. So that's that report we give you where we look at three years and older that's why we kind of we look at that three years and older because we know it could take two to three years just if we move at a normal pace to get the project done. And there, I do have some the starts of projects, just kind of waiting waiting so all of the document is, I might have completed all my documentation, but maybe haven't yet sent it down to Sean and procurement yet, just sort of waiting for that, because it also takes our time. So even even though we're asking these other contractors, if we start put taking too many projects on all at once, we get spread pretty thin so I try to get the projects going and space them out throughout the year. So what what can we do for the inside and outside and hopefully get as much done as possible each year. And your first question Pam about deferred maintenance and a total. Yes, we have deferred maintenance. We've tried to do a better job at chipping away at it with that sort of general facility pot of money. So we're not having to wait to do something, especially smaller projects I think Jeremiah has done a good job catching up in the schools have a similar pot of money. We've done a good job catching up on sort of the smaller items but you'll see if you just look at the five year capital plan you'll see some big projects on there that probably could fall under that. You know that term deferred maintenance so it's a big number. We don't have a single, a single amount but I do think we're starting to chip away at some of it just by putting more money into general maintenance and repairs. Alex, are you asking on the same topics, or can I do a follow up on what Pam just asked. All right, no, go ahead. Okay, so just following on what Pam asked, I thought what you presented Stephanie was fabulous on saying how did you use last year's 200,000. It would be useful not now but a similar question. We, this is the innovation we put together this pool for you, Jeremy, and last year you told us the kinds of things you would do. I think it would just be useful to get, you know, the bucket list of what actually happened because that to me is we're, we're doing a checklist so that's just a comment on it. And one somewhat unrelated question and then I'll go to Alan, I agree with Mandy by the way I had the same question on the windows I, I just, if you look at post office they don't have any barriers if you look at a lot of place banks don't. I think getting down to just a transom. If you've ever tried to talk to anyone in the New York subway system you'll discover they can't hear you and you can't hear them. It's just a barrier it's, it's a sound barrier so just thinking about that. I had a question on the childcare centers pavement. So you don't need to answer it now but to me it was slightly lower priority because our roads look in a lot of places that look worse than that. That was question number one, and why it's not in the DPW budget, as opposed to the town facility budget. So it was just a, a general it's not a lot of money but we're over budget this year so I've been looking for where which things are less urgent, and especially since that one said you do part of it but not all of it so you do the driveway but not the turnaround. So just trying to think of that, since it's not the Wildwood parking lot either, you know. So that was my comment on that. Alex. Yeah, actually, that's partially what I was going to ask about is, is there a plan to complete the Circle Drive on the childcare parking lot and does that impact, you know, funding timing, it doesn't matter if it's done separately and then I also had sort of the same sort of question that is it correct to assume that if a parking lot or sidewalk is part of a building and it's under the facilities budget for that building, as opposed to like a DPW, I assume like, you know, town parking lots maybe your DPW budget but like parking lot associated with a building is part of that budget so just understanding that. And then I had a couple more questions so I don't know if you want me to ask all of them or pause. I can only start with that one. So Jeremiah do you want to speak to a little bit why the childcare request came through you. And if I don't know if you know anything about the roundabout but if you do. Yeah, so I work closely with the maintenance team that that takes care of both that building and our North Amherst School. So essentially they have their own sort of maintenance team that for all the day to day issues. They take care of any of the bigger building and infrastructure stuff. That's the town's responsibility. So when meeting with with them, you know, we've identified that there are issues with the parking area. We're getting some potholes that are in the center. And in that sort of effects, you know, the vehicles coming and going also any of the individuals that are walking through that space. So that's kind of how we we sort of come up with that. If we could recode and seal, we certainly go that way or not. We have done that in other facilities. But I think that this air this this parking lot has is sort of gone past that point. We can't just seal it and get some more time out of it. The circle area is not seeing the same sort of damage that the parking area is. So the parking, we have a lot of that crackling that's happening. And that's where we also have the pot the potholes. I would say that the circles in good shape. I mean, what I love to do the circle as well. Absolutely. And then, if I did that, then I'd go well I need to do some stuff for the parking lot lights so while I'm digging there I'll trench for that and, you know, and that's how smaller things just explode into some much bigger projects. But but but I think to the to the question you asked is that area is in good shape right now. I think I would say that we leave it alone. We can easily take care of the parking area and leave the circle. And you would just have that one joint, which could be sealed and get some more time out of it. I guess it would be nice to do everything but at the same time is, is it costs a lot so so just sort of addressing the, the, the need, rather than the want. And just building off, Jeremiah, I think the process is generally the facility folks will bring the parking lot issues, not DPW. And so, if approved, we will work with the DBW to do the repaving of the parking lot will work with them and their contractors to do that work but just from experience at the high school and middle school, you know, often as the facility folks I hear about the issues with the parking lot when staff are walking in or whoever's walking in that's who hears it so they're generally the ones that raise the issue. And then again we partner DPW to actually fix it. Yeah, in terms of I think the way we've structured it lives whatever facility, whatever facility the parking lot is at. And I guess in conjunction with Pam's question so the asset management sheet that we have that has maintenance costs, are those just building or are we also contemplating these costs as well the sidewalks and the repaving of, the added or is that already coming? Yeah, I mean, if we, so right now what's on the asset maintenance sheet are budgets and actual expenses. It does not include sort of deferred maintenance or, or potential projects that are needed. It's something we could think about, although it would, that would be a significant undertaking I think to really inventory all that in a way that's helpful, as opposed to just breathtaking, you know. So we, I'm sure Jeremiah has his own sorts of lists by building of the things that need improvements but we that's something we could look at for the future but it would be a big addition. Okay, and then just my other question before Farah, sorry Farah, is on the APD roof design. I believe Stephanie that the town has a sustainability statement for procurement but I don't know if that's just for HVAC systems. Are we also looking at like roofing materials or things I mean I don't know the level to which we're trying to become green or whether we're just focusing on sort of HVAC system right now and the statement that was drawn up was really just sort of focused on HVAC systems for now. Then, you know, but I think, you know, in general when we do procurement I think we're, you know, we're looking to do anything that's going to help us sort of take off meeting our goals. So, you know, it's always, I think it's always kind of taken into consideration. And that is something that I've talked to Stephanie about because that's when I just go and knock on her cubicle and go, So I'm doing this project and I'm thinking about the flooring that we're going to use and should I go this direction with it and she's always happy to hear that I'm, you know, that's it's it's part of the process and, you know, and even even though that that our statement is HVAC related. So when we think about those other things we have flooring projects coming up well I want to use a flooring that doesn't require waxes and strippers and all of these things. Let's get rid of that so we're not using all these gross chemicals in the building and we can, we can still have it look great and so it's so it is, it is a thought well while I'm doing these projects. I think she said fire. Thanks Sean. Thank you Jeremiah and Stephanie it's really helpful to hear, I mean, listen to your presentation and it just feels like everything should be a priority. I'm just curious about the, not to harp on on libraries but I'm kind of curious about the months in fire alarm system. It seems like that should have been a priority. When you said that it was something that came up a few years ago and with families and kids going through them just curious about the process behind that. Yeah, I agree from from my understanding and what I've what I've heard is is know that I think the ask has been put out there. A number of years ago and I and like I said I know that it was looked at. I wish it was done. When they initially got got some quotes and because the costs were, it was a fraction of what I'm seeing now. So we would have been able to at least have that layer of safety within the building. And then, unfortunately with the pandemic we did run into some challenges of most of the manufacturers weren't actually making equipment. So, there was a big delay on equipment, manufacturing as far as like the fire alarm systems for the control panel. They had devices, and then the wiring itself was what became an issue and that those those are the items that that sort of drove up the costs and it. The timing wasn't good, even though I it is a life safety issue and it needs to happen right away. When I looked at it and started trying to get quotes and it became an it became a timing issue it was not being able to get equipment, not getting responses from vendors. So when I put the put together my RFP. We went out three times. And eventually I just started calling people and said, hey, did you get that. What what's what's off putting about this, you know what's what's the problem. What's the challenge. And I got some great feedback and some of it was, we just don't have anything. There's our shelves are empty. You know, and say a company like Johnson controls, it's one of the largest companies in the world. They're saying they're just starting to manufacture stuff. So, we did run into some of those issues, but it, but it most certainly is, is a priority as far as I'm concerned and it will get done as quickly as I can. Okay, thank you. Yeah, I'm not seeing any other hands up Sean so I know, you know, Jeremy, the chart sets fantastic so if you could give it to Sean so we could post it would be great. Absolutely. Alright, any final questions for Stephanie or Jeremiah. All right, I think. Thank you both for joining and we have a few questions that I'll follow you all on after. But next is the police department. And I think we have Scott and Gabe here to talk about their projects.  Whatever you want, Sean I got the three projects that. Yes, the console upgrade the body cameras and the cruisers. That's right.  So, to two of them are going to be relatively easy to scooch through because the reality is, we're probably not ready for the actual procurement and funding for these two projects and the ones I'm talking about are the body warrant cameras proposal because I wanted to get it out there and have the discussion started. Just so you know, this is a this is a proposal that the police officers want and have wanted for a while when it comes specific to the body warrant camera program and it's expensive. It includes upgrades to our in car video system as well but why I'm saying that we're going to have to delay this is it's going to fall under the purview of the facial recognition bylaw so we're going to need to have the total support of the once we established the bylaw and read through that and understand what it how it affects our purchases in the future. We're going to need to have the support of the town council nor order to move forward with that project so I wanted it on there for this year's discussion, mostly for the town council not necessarily for the service group but have that discussion down the road about. First of all, does the town council support this is something that's important to the police officers themselves. And if so, then I think we're probably looking at something in FY 25 or even 26 but it's something that we need to start having a serious conversation about. And I'll go through these as well Sean and you can have. If there's questions at the end we can do that, similar to what we do with Jeremiah for the request for the abtac dispatch console project is another big ticket item. The company that we currently have try tech solutions which is the IMC. The system that handles all of our data collection all of our report writing all of our dispatch console equipment is going out of business. And they've notified us that they'll be out of business in the New England region and probably the next three years. Originally where we're going to request this this purchase for this fiscal year. 90 of the 90% of the police departments in New England I'll use this same company. So what we've decided to do. I sit on a couple of boards and the mass chiefs. And we're going to look at this from a totality purchase through the mass chiefs through the New England chiefs of police because so many police agencies use the same systems. We're going to be contracting with or requesting contracting through major suppliers to see if we can get a better price. If 600 police departments we're looking to make these purchases or even 200 police departments. We just think we're going to get better quotes down the road if we look at this from a regional aspect and regional approach. We're going to get better large ticket ticket item, large cost item that will probably be coming up in probably FY 25 or 26. And then the final request is just our annual request for police vehicle replacements in FY 24 it's every fourth year we have a request for four vehicles, typically the request is for three vehicle replacement. We're just at the point now where we're getting caught up with the FY 21 and 22 request. Why that I mean the vehicles were all on hold so we had ordered vehicles and we never received any of them. And we've just now started to take delivery of the vehicles. So that includes the annual control officers vehicle which was approved from last year's FY request, and also for the two vehicles requested for the crest group so those vehicles are not in yet. But the money is there to purchase those so you know they're under contract they've been purchased. We're just waiting for for delivery on those vehicles. So FY 24, we're requesting for hybrid vehicles at the cost of $300,000 and I don't know Sean if that includes the reduction that we're going to be getting from Stephanie's group as well so I don't know if that's the $20,000 reduction. So I believe these numbers already include the cost of the hybrid. The numbers that Doug put together already include the hybrid cost in there. Gotcha. So so that is the actual cost the $300. I believe so we can make that point to confirm but that was my recollection talking with them. So I think everybody knows by now that all of the vehicles we purchased our hybrid and or either plug in electric hybrid including the the crest vehicles and that's kind of where we stand it's a pretty simple request. But certainly entertain any questions. And do thanks for that presentation. Do all of our electric vehicles come with a cost toward or some portion of the cost applied to new charging stations or do we, or are we going to see another request for charging stations from other budgets. So for police vehicles, ours are all hybrid. Our fuel management systems so those are not plug in yet. Those are hybrid gas vehicles. The crest vehicles are the ones that are going to be plug in hybrid. And that includes the cost of the charging stations. And I believe Sean, we agree there are going to be two at bang center if I'm not mistaken. We still have the one out behind the town town hall if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, that sounds right. I think that'll be part of the, that'll be a little bit of the logistics that to think about is the one for crest. Whether that's a public charging station or not considering it's being used for a public safety vehicle. We may not want it to be a public charging station, you know, the event that they need to charge and they can't get it get on to it so that'll be part of the planning as we go forward. Jennifer. I have two questions. The first one is for Scott, the thing that you said about the company that's going out of business in New England but 90% of the police department use them I missed what it, what do they do and what is it that you'll need to replace. So they, it is all the equipment that we use for dispatching purposes report writing data collection. Pretty much any information that comes into this facility. There's nothing to do with communication and or report writing or data collection is handled by this company so it would include report writing dispatch consoles five dispatch console stations, and all the equipment is associated with dispatch and policing. That sounds pretty huge. It's huge it's expensive. And we're kind of stuck but in a corner here painted in a corner because again this company has been used utilized by almost every police department in the northeast and you know they gave us a five year window to replace this that let us know that they're going out of business. Well that's good, at least they gave us keep you five years. My second question is maybe for Sean or Kathy or I'm not sure Scott said about I'm interested in the conversation about body cameras. And Scott seemed to say it's like not for like he's bringing it up now but it's not for this body to like it's, but so I guess my question is like what does this body, what will this body need to decide or discuss regarding body cameras at this time. So do you mind if I start. So far. So, I think this commission still discuss it like you discuss any other projects, any questions you have, you know what would be the operating costs. I would still treat it like any other capital project it may not get implemented as quickly as other ones, because of the process that Scott outlined but I would still treat it like any other capital request because it's on the plan for now and and could go forward for approval this year. I'm sorry Jennifer I would just add that, you know, the, and it's not a hiccup or anything it's just with the, with the facial recognition by law that just leave someone answered questions otherwise we would just be moving forward and a normal request year and I just, I need to have some questions answered before we can move forward legitimately with this process. Mandy. Thank you. My questions relate to the body cameras but also the in car video systems I wasn't clear with what you were saying about actually the consoles to are you removing those requests from the funding request for this year, or do you still want them on the capital funding or you're just warning us that they might show up on our three year old and later in three years because they haven't quite made it through the system so that's my first request, because it's a half a million dollar chunk that we're talking about depending on where you are there, but then with the body cameras. They're pulled from this year's request because they might take two or three years. Normally we buy in our in car video systems replacements I think every years tends to be the system and and I saw this year and next year they weren't on the capital program. So if we're not, if, but, no matter what the Council does if, if the Council approves the body camera purchase and all, and everything that goes along with that under this surveillance tech bylaw. If it's going to take three years should we do you still need in car video systems before that or can you wait so that's that's my other question and then. I have a lot of questions about the body cameras but since it all relates to the what the questions that would happen under the surveillance tech policy and the Council approving that prior to any RFP going out because that's what the surveillance tech bylaw requires. My question I guess is, when do you intend to come to the Council to make those requests. So, I guess, I would ask Vanny Joe, maybe we should go forward with the request for the body camera and in car video system software, because I don't know where we stand on the calendar with the surveillance software bylaw. I know we're having some having some discussion coming up in March about the in car video system and specifically how it relates to that bylaw. If we think we're going to be. We think that the bylaw is going to be in place by July 1 and we should probably move ahead with the request for the body camera proposal. The, the radio console. You know, the dispatch console project is not, it shouldn't move forward at this time. Paul do I assume you have a. Yeah, so yeah, so the surveillance bylaw is in place what we're going through now is the first time we're asked the Council to approve a particular technology which is the cruiser videos and so that's and that's scheduled for TSO has been referred to TSO and that's scheduled. I think Athena is working out a time when you could be available Scott and that's going to be in March or April and every day you give it you've even heard three dates that you can attend. So that will move forward and I think that it is appropriate for us to develop a request to the Council for the body cams because I think that's something the department has asked for. We need to get an underserved approval from the Council before we would even begin to go into the marketplace to purchase them we need to know the pricing and all that but we don't know what the Council's opinion is on those surveillance things so I think that's the process. I think it's important to keep it on. Maybe not forever. There could be union issues with this as well. So there's other cost implications, but we should discuss whether it stays on this capital plan or goes on a future year for that. John, did you want to speak to this. Yeah, follow up. Yeah, I think this is a good pilot project to see how how capital will work with the new bylaw. Does the approval under the bylaw need to happen first or does the capital, does the appropriation need to happen first happen first and then the bylaw gets approved, or do they happen sort of on parallel tracks at the same time. Do we have enough time to do that right if do we have enough time to do that so I think this will be a learning experience for all of us with the new bylaw and how these projects move through the system. I have three questions Scott and I don't give in what we've just said about body cam I don't need answers now with the body cams last year, the exiting governor put up a big chunk of money so it was available to various towns do we have any idea whether there will that funding will again be available. And it was specifically for body cam so just when this all comes up on on money sources. You know, since the governor's budget is March 1. I mean none of us might know the answer for that for a while. Secondly, you had 50 down. Do we need 50 so could there be a smaller number since 50 people aren't on duty all at the same time. Just on terms of systems. Then my last my other my other two projects on the console. I understand that this is on a delay would what would is one of the criteria we're using on whatever our replacement is for the company that won't be in business anymore to be able to link it. I think that's some way to the old system so if we want to look at trends over time on dispatch calls we can. I realize we've got a more might have a more primitive one than the new ones. And would, are we looking to make sure crests, crests related or in incorporated and I'm assuming the answer is yes. My final question I'll just rattle them off is on the hybrids. In your experience with them so far. Do they last longer than three years and our maintenance costs a lot lower. I know the way we drive ours has got nothing, nothing like the way the police need to drive there's but a bunch of them that are well up in the 200,000 miles and but also just the maintenance the repair costs are really low, compared to all the systems. So, are we saving a little bit on breakdowns on repairs on on things that go wrong with other cars. So on the experience, is it really a three is it a three year duration, and can we assess that. Sure. So I'll start with the body grant program question so absolutely that the purchase and the maintenance, there are two different grants that are available through the stadiums and purchasing is is one of them. So I checked with these Hampton and Hadley and chick to be I think it was the average grant for purchasing of the body cameras is between 40 and 50%. So the purchasing price for the for the camera system itself has been on average through the grant received between 40 and 50% of the cost. The maintenance costs, East Hampton received was for 25% of the maintenance cost and Hadley's was 30%. So whatever that percentage ends up being both for the cost and for the maintenance down the road there will be some a significant reduction on what we come to both or reimbursement I guess to the town once the purchase is made. Thank you. Yep, for the, the question about the radio system and inclusiveness with crest. Yeah, that was put into the proposal for our quote what we asked for it to our supplier which is whose town radio and communication system so crest was included and what may be necessary to further information data collection and their report writing down the road. And do we need all 50 of the cameras. There are times when all of our police officers are working at once doesn't happen as frequently as it used to. We could probably get away with a smaller number. But it probably wouldn't be that much smaller I'm thinking we could probably get away with 40. But we would need to logistically make that work at times when the entire force is ordered and to work. For instance for Blarney blow out everybody has to work at the same time there. So instances are, there are times when everybody's working. I'd like to defer to you on the high on on Kathy's question about the maintenance costs and the hybrid vehicles because you handle all the billing with our supplier on that and you've seen a significant reduction. So far with the hybrid ones we have. We haven't there's been some issues with some of the hybrids especially the, the newer models. For example, we have one particular hybrid that's, that's been in the shop for over six months now. And one of the main main major issues is parts. They're having a real hard time in getting parts and fixing these vehicles. One of our newest cruisers had 1500 miles on it and there's a hose. That's that the way that it's places too close to the pulley. So the hose ended up ended up being pierced, which leaked all the coolant out and this is a brand new cruiser. And that's been in the shop for three weeks now, and we're still waiting for the part. And this is across the board nationally with with these hybrids so right now I think right now there's some issues when it comes to maintenance and a lot of it is is getting the parts and a lot of visitor. And there's a lot of trial and error with these new models. So I think that will improve. Once they get their act together but right now, there's certainly some issues. Thank you. Well, Alex. Thanks. Kathy had asked the question I had about the grants for the police body camera so am I assuming correctly that the amount the 250,000 doesn't include the expected grants. And if so, I guess, again, it comes back to that question sort of as there are more of these grants available and money's coming back. Where is that money going and is it a funding source that goes back into JCPC or I feel like we have all these, there are lots of really wonderful grants and programs out there. But it feels like we're front and loading a lot of this stuff and then money's coming back at a later time and so, you know, what sort of process. We're going to go around that in terms of how it comes back and what we do with those funds. That's more for Sean and Paul, not so much for Scott. Yeah, I don't know where the grant referrals come back to but Sean that's probably on your radar. So just to clarify Alex we're talking about the grant that would help pay for the cost of the new system. Yeah, I mean you were talking 50 40 to 50% of the purchase price and 25 to 30% maintenance and I mean budget but I mean I mean 40 to 50% of 250,000. Yeah, so, so if we know about the grant before the project is approved we would just reduce the reduce the upper cost if it's after, then, we'll have to make sure there's no supplanting issues with the grant but assuming there's no supplanting issues with the grant we would not spend the we would close out the article and have it fall back into the sort of the closed article fund for JCPC which then can be appropriated for other capital projects in the future. Yeah, I mean it's just it's just really interesting that again coming back to sort of the timing of budgeting in JCPC and you know it's it's fabulous that all of these funding sources are available but I feel like JCPC is increasingly in an awkward position of putting out money that then I don't know that we ever really see it you know I'm saying like there's just the way that the money is flowing, I don't know how frequently we know that that that money is going to that before we have to make these spending decisions. We don't typically get grants for things after they're approved by after there's an appropriation that I would say if we feel strongly that we're we're going to have the potential to get a grant for this expenditure, we should potentially reduce the ask before it's approved and then see if we get the grant and if we don't get the grant come back for the balance but once we appropriate funds it's rare that we get a grant then at that point. Yeah, I just feel like again you were sort of making these decisions these days I mean, if we take the police dispatch console off, you know, it will allow for balance this year that's lovely but it would be a pretty easy question for me to find out Alex. Okay, you know, I'm on one of the committees for the EOPS grant process so it would be a simple question to find out whether or not that funding comes for comes first. And certainly I can check with the other police chiefs who have already used the grants. And maybe that's like a second like I feel like we we adjusted this process to sort of include the question about the grant and I think that was a really good thing that we added but it feels like there needs to be one more step because we have this tight window where we make all these decisions and we know about all these potential grants but by the time. By the time things really play out we've already sort of had to prioritize things we wouldn't have needed to so I guess just, if there's a way to sort of shore up that process. Yeah, it's my bad. If I didn't put it in the notes for the actual preparation of the capital request I should have. You noted the grants were available but okay. Thanks. Yeah. Right and I think your question Alex is true of the, the town hall boilers as well I think the same issue applies there with the green communities grant, except that one we went the other way with it where it's the lower amount we might have to increase it so. Yeah, we'll, we'll look at that and and have something to update you on in a couple meetings when we go come back to the full plan. Thank you. You know I noticed on earth had asked the electric school bus grant and you said if we don't go forward the grant would just be given back so getting the grant in anticipation also allows us to do what you want. Alex, you know what we all want we'd like to see the net cost rather than the, I'm guessing that's usually the exception though. I think that I'm not seeing any other hands on this set Sean so okay. Then thank you Scott and Gabe for coming and talking with the committee about the projects today. And there's any other follow up questions I'll reach back out to you guys. Sounds good thanks everybody. Good to see you. Thank you everyone. Right. And then, Doug, are you in a rush. I think Sean is going to go first but if you're in a rush Doug. You're okay. I think both of these should be kind of quick. Doug, are you speaking on behalf of the school it. I am unless Jerry pops in, but he's away today so I doubt he's going to join us. Well he is actually he may be in the audience so Jerry will be there probably in 10 minutes. So Sean, do you want to go through those the town it requests. Yeah. Good afternoon. I think this is one of the quickest easiest and by most boring capital requests that it has made. Since I've been here but it's pretty straightforward we were asking on that town side for 200,000 for we put in an infrastructure replacement it's what we typically asked for for Network switches PCs routers basically all the kind of day to day stuff that we replace over the course of the year we we were lucky in being able to use cares money and some art for money for some of these projects. Early on in the pandemic and now being about three years past cares money looking into next fiscal year. We're the point where we need to start replacing some more PCs switches routers etc so that's that's that chunk of money. And then the other is a similar ask for specific to the library for 29,200 mostly for PCs and wireless access points. That's in coordination with the library with the intention of planning that in and whether that's going to go into their existing building a temporary location and or a renovation. I really have to say about it. And I'll just add that the FY 23 requests. For the reasons that Sean already described was reduced quite a bit from sort of our typical it request which is usually 100 to 200,000 $200,000 range it was reduced down to 75,000 for FY 23. Alex. Yeah, just a quick question so in prior year will last year, we seem we seem to have last year we knew FY 24 was going to be 200,000 asked, but then the out years were 125,000. But then this year we bumped FY 25 to 200,000 but the remaining out years are 100, like, should all the remaining out years be 200,000 or That's very possible we can go through. I think I think it's quite worth us going through again and looking at our replacement cycle we've we've adjusted it over the years depending on, you know, whether we're replacing some switches one year whether replacing servers some year there's some, some more defensive stuff that we do only replace every five years. So it's worth like, I guess I couldn't answer your question right now but we certainly can look at that and then see it about catching that up to where it should be to be to get a more accurate prediction. My other hand go up and go down as it is. I had, I had the same question, Sean and I don't need an answer on it. I had, I have a more general question, and it would be Sean and Paul to speak to it but we have a last round of, we have money in ARPA, and to the extent. If we were to support town services, would any of these things such as the this kind of equipment be potentially on the list and if, if we get to a balanced budget for this year is coming here. The FY 25 budget looks really bad. You know so I'm just looking at what's essential and what where can we smooth things so Sean you seem to have a. There are loads where we're buying really big things and then it drops and then we're buying big one so just to think through the timing of these that that's a request, it's, it's, it's different than outside grant money. But it's, it's similar. And how we use ARPA funds is something that Paul and I have been discussing a lot lately, you know, anticipation of coming up, speaking with the council about a plan for using the remaining ARPA funds. So, it'll be discussed more in the next month or two the plan for using those funds and I think there is potential for it to support the capital plan or projects that were on the capital plan. So if it if it's not in place in time for the FY 24 capital plan. There's still potential it could be in place for the FY 25 capital plan because the deadline to have funds committed is the end of 2024, which would be the first half of FY 25 so there's still one more fiscal year where if it's not this year could be a few the next fiscal year. Thank you. All right, any final questions for Sean. All right, thank you. Thank you. Jerry and Doug hope they're so lucky. All right. So Jerry, do you want to speak to the, I think they're two separate requests to school submitted. Sure. On the IT side it was pretty straightforward this year. I paired things down, kind of with an eye towards, you know, being positive that, you know, the override will pass and in three years, roughly time or so. We'll have a new elementary school and that during that building process a lot of the infrastructure pieces will be replaced. So what I put in for for for this year, or is pretty much for two things is projector replacements and infrastructure and wireless upgrades for Crocker farm elementary that school is not going to be touched. You know, by the new school. So they should their wireless is getting a little old it's just completely functional now, but we're seeing devices coming in that are supporting the new Wi Fi standards Wi Fi six, which is higher speeds, greater capacity. So we've gotten some new Chromebooks to share that will support that. We're just in the process towards the end of the process of rolling out replacement laptops for the teachers and admins at the elementary level that are newer laptops that support the higher speed wireless. So we're looking to do that hopefully, you know, Crocker was renovated about 21 years ago right now. The wiring is kind of on the bubble there about how much speed will actually support right now, unlike all the other schools that were wired circa 97. We can't support the higher speed so we're not going to make significant changes to those buildings without investing in new wiring infrastructure which is time consuming and costly. So we've been seeing a lot of attrition with projectors this year, replacing those as we can. First timing is difficult because the new projectors have a different mounting system, which requires us to use hammer drills to mount them to the walls can't do that during the school days somewhat disrupted. So we can only do it either before or after school so projectors we bought last year, we've been shipping away at or use more than half of them already this year. We're seeing supply chain issues, significant as far as the networking hardware goes. We're talking not months but years for some equipment, some of the network switches are talking a year to three years out. So, it's hard to say oh yeah we're going to buy and spend it all right now. That's the goal. You know, the supply chain has other ideas so we do what we can on that the projectors the last time I ordered them I had to wait three months or more for them to arrive. So that's still a challenge, but it's easing up slightly but not significantly Chromebooks were all set until June of 24. A large number going out of support. I think I've mentioned this in the past but for those of you are maybe not here. Google sets a finite life for Chromebooks, so that after used to be five years now the last batch we just bought I think we're getting up until 2027 when they go out of update support. So they've gotten a little better, but this year we have, you know, in June of 24, we're going to have to replace some but for 23 were okay. So that's it. I have something that's more of a comment than a question so I'm just sure you mentioned that Wildwood and Fort River aren't in this mix because we're all hoping the school becomes a reality. You said the current wiring in the building won't support an upgrade getting shown any information about that because we've been asked can't we just some people have asked can't we just fix the buildings what's the cost to it and my understanding is, there's all sorts of plumbing issues in the building and our design team did some really good pictures of furnaces and walls and stuff. I'm not sure they captured wiring systems and Wi-Fi, you know that they won't, they won't capture. So I'm just saying that just a piece, it would be useful so I don't just quote you saying it in this meeting when people ask me. Yeah, so as far as that goes, I defer to the facility staff as far as the boilers and stuff go, they're all buildings and they're aging and they were built with the technology at the time. As far as the wiring goes, you don't see it in the ceiling and in the walls. So we added some wiring over the years. When we went to an IP phone system where the classrooms only had the intercom phones. A few years ago we ran the wiring ourselves. I think that summer we put in over three miles worth of cable. So some of it's newer, but the bulk of it isn't. And when it was wired before I got there. So it's a long time ago. I don't know why, but well, you notice that they didn't really have real walls and the fake walls didn't always have power on them. So they ended up clustering network drops in one place. So there might be six network drops and only one location in the room, which is less than useful. That's really not where a teacher puts their desk. So, so we'd have to do some wiring there. Wildwood presents another challenge. Maybe I'm telling you something you don't know, maybe you do. Some of the ceiling tiles have asbestos. As I found out after 20 some odd years in ceiling. So, we can't touch them. So that would need to be done. That asbestos would need to be abated. If you are going to keep using that school beyond, you know, the time where we were planning to replace it. Thank you. Doug. Thanks to that. So, when we come back and talk about other things facilities related, I'll make sure that Mr Roy Clark is aware of that question around some of those, those other pieces of infrastructure relative to Fort River and Wildwood and so you can kind of be prepared to to give you some sense of the needs that are in those buildings. They're pretty substantial. And just because Jerry just mentioned it on the question of asbestos I mean obviously we've done remediation we continue to remediation there are certain chances that arise anytime we have something come up. You know we often need to test and and as you see a lot of times in our capital requests or requests or regular chunks of money to handle questions and issues that arise around asbestos. So it's not something that's going away it's a matter of managing it and limiting it treating it carefully and cautiously and we do that and and so it does complicate things at times because you know it was much more pervasive in use in the past. But it is now as far as the usage being all ceiling tiles and and floor adhesives and that sort of stuff. They don't use it for those things anymore but we do have buildings of an age that have some of that so I'm going to make changes or adjustments to those facilities that that have those Yes, test for asbestos and of course then remediated if necessary. So that's also another I don't want to say bonus but additional cost perhaps when we go to do any kind of extensive renovations in those older buildings so we're all keeping our fingers crossed the arrival fast new school and that'll Significantly limit the those issues for us. Thank you. Can someone remind me generally the relationship between the town capital projects and school and library. I think I came in with a false understanding that capital project would be covered by the school by the school loan budget, and in the same for the library so I'm, I would love to be up Updated on my. Thank you. Alex do you want me to do a quick explanation or were you going to respond to that. Yeah, well I yeah no actually it's a really good it's a good question Pam so from the library's perspective I can speak to and else can speak about school. So there actually used to be a line item on the JCPC line items for the library specific to capital requests. So, pre this building project there would be a regular line item of roof needs replacement, you know, brick needs tuck pointing at the exact same thing you see with all the other buildings, in fact it was listed under municipal buildings and they had their line. And when the library started this project. The thought process of the library was, we would stop submitting requests to JCPC in anticipation of a really big request around the building project. And so you really haven't seen requests from the library. For like seven years I want to say other than you know the it equipment replacements and maybe the van. So, those are purposely not and I worry sometimes that people do in fact forget that that's how it used to be because no requests have been made. So, for example, if town council doesn't move forward with the project and the library would go back to, you know, putting all of those requests back within the JCPC as they've done in the past. I think that does that answer your great. And the regional schools Pam are different than the elementary schools so it just comes in. It comes. We don't sit with regional school projects we just sit with elementary school projects and Mandy may want to speak to that or not. So you can continue on what you were going to say I actually had a separate question related. No, I was just responding to the schools are to two buckets there's, there's middle and high school in one bucket and then there's, you know, we. Yes. That's it. The first question is for Sean, more than Doug, and, and not Jerry, but last week we talked about some of the DPW requests and other requests that actually kind of relate to school maintenance. Is it appropriate should we be asking those questions today or will Doug and Roy, come back during some of those specific requests. I'd actually like Jerry to answer that one. If you could weigh in. No, so I think that is a question when Rupert is here with it. We can all have a conversation on that one I have to double check to see if DPW is here the same day because it would be best if they are but. But I think that's the conversation with Rupert because he's responsible for grounds maintenance which is where a lot of the overlap with DPW is. I, I'm not seeing any other hands. So, thank you both. I mean it was very clear what the needs are, and you were very succinct and presenting them so thank you for it and thank you for the work you do for our schools. Thank you. Thank you all. And thank you Jerry for coming in on vacation Jerry's on vacation this week but appreciate him. Thank you for coming on us out today. Yeah, didn't have to shush the grand kids they didn't have come today so we're good. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you, Doug. So if I don't, I don't not seeing any other hands up so I'm, we do have one public in the, and so I, I think we're open for public comments. If there are any and I'm just going to watch to see if it doesn't look like there any public comments. So the only other thing I just wanted to note is Alex some of you who came on at the very beginning Alex sent in minutes as and then the week before Pam sent in minutes. They're getting posted each time that as soon as Sean gets them to the extent people want to look at minutes and particularly if you missed the week before. And the videos of each of these meetings is going are going up pretty quickly. You get, you get it right after the meeting if you're doing the minutes but the town is posting them by Friday afternoon so then it's when you go on JCPC site you can click on recording and you can find the, the, the recording. We found them very useful when we come back to being talking about all this to remember so the minute paper doesn't have to take it down every sentence that people did but really to get a flavor of the discussion. So, Pam, I just, you know, I'm just talking about that we've got those two resources Pam. Actually, I was looking for the, for the minutes to, to look at review in our packet for today and I, and so your explanation of where they actually are as helpful. Would it be possible to put them in the packet from. It's in the packet now. It wasn't before the meeting but I did add it to the packet for today. During the meeting so it's in the should be in the packet now it might be mixed in an alphabetical order in a way that's not helpful but just so you know, I mean I, there was a little bit of a delay with me looking at it but Alex had the recording and didn't yet had the YouTube link so I just directed the link so that if people want to read the minutes and get the link and I said, perfect. Did you find it Pam? It's labeled 2023 02-16 JCPC minutes. Yeah, we don't, for whatever reason JCPC.  Yeah, and it's in the, it's in the folder for today's meetings of the 23rd. So, to the extent we get them at least the day before Sean will be able to put them in so that you can see them at the same time or as unless the Kathy just isn't paying attention since you've delegated a quick review by me. I think that's it and we are, we are done at 245 so we've made up for the 11 minutes we went over last week if you take an average. So I think I want to, unless I hear anything else Pam is your hand still up or just not down. Okay, so we are adjourned at 245. Thank you everyone.


Live from Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering UiPath Forward Americas, brought to you by UiPath. Welcome back to Miami, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, and we're here covering UiPath Forward, looking unpacking software robots, robotic process automation. Jeff Aldridge is here. He's the advisory principal for EY. Great to see you, Jeff. Thanks for coming on. Stu Miniman, myself, Dave Vellante. We're excited to have you. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having me, appreciate it. So I was at a chief data officer conference early this year, and the speaker asked how many of you are involved in robotic process automation projects? I would say two thirds, maybe even three quarters of the hands went up. These are guys in suits, kind of stayed individuals. But I've seen data that suggests that while everybody's interested in kicking the tires, that there's not a lot of companies that are at scale, single digits at scale. What are you seeing, does that match, and why do you think that is? Yeah, I think that's pretty consistent with what we see in the market. I think a lot of folks have bought a few licenses, they've done a few exploratory pilots, but very few companies have gone to production with more than 30 bots. We do think that's going to change dramatically in the next 12 to 24 months based on what we're seeing in the market. So it's an exciting period of time. What's the headwind to scale, and how are you reducing friction? Yeah, I think it varies, but I think change is just hard for organizations, right? And so I think they've started a little bit slow trying to figure out what's their purpose, why are they doing this? Is it about head count reduction? Is it about trying to scale? Is it about accuracy? So trying to define that common purpose and common metrics to measure success I think has been slow for some organizations. But I think once they have that purpose and they kind of see what the potential is, then I think it starts to pick up speed. So we've certainly seen more and more companies go into scale. Yeah, and it's always something new. It's like, how do I measure success? What was the outcome you're expecting? We've talked to a number of customers today already, and the answer's been different for every one of them. They are all very similar as to what they're doing, but what it means to their business. I thought I was going to reduce cost, but oh wait, I'm going to drive more revenue. Right. I thought I was going to do this, oh wait, it's great ROI. It turned around really different. How do you deal with that in the field? Yeah, I think you're right. I think at some point to do a few pilots and kind of kick the tires, you don't have to know what the purpose is. So it's pretty easy to do that. But I think once you start thinking we're really going to do this, you've got to coalesce around what our purpose is. And so we like to talk to people about different examples of what other companies have done. And in particular, how do you measure success? For some companies, they're looking at the same goal, for example, cost reduction. They look at that differently. So we've had a very large client who said, we're going to measure cost reduction based on next year's budget. So if we're able to not have to hire additional resources, we get to count that. If we're able to find hard dollar savings, we get to count that. So for example, in peak periods of the year when we hire a lot of contingent labor, if we automate something that keeps us from having to hire that amount of contingent labor, then we get to count that. Others will count against the prior year. So I think even when you have a similar goal, you can have different metrics of how you measure it. That next year's budget is actually quite interesting because if you could do more with the same, now you're getting operating leverage, that's almost as good as dropping to the bottom line through a CFO. Yeah, and some would say it's better because you don't have a disruption of your current workforce. It's not about reducing heads that we have today, but it's how can we grow and how can we scale without having to add back office costs and other costs in the organization. So I think that's going to become pretty common for fast growing companies. What's your interest, Jeff, in automation, robotic process automation? How did you get here? Kind of what's your background? Yeah, so I'm a CPA, finance person by background, went to law school, but I've always been about process improvement and helping organizations improve. And so I think this is just the next step in that, right? Technology has taken a leap and now organizations can take a leap in terms of additional process improvement. And I think the best companies are looking at it as how do I use my top resources to do more? And so I think that's another objective of some of the better companies is, how do I free up my people to do what they were hired to do? Jeff, one thing I'm trying to understand, when I think about process, one of the challenges I think back to outsourcing is, when I outsource something, it made me not be able to change as much as I want to. I lost some skill set and therefore I had a disconnect between the business and keeping operations going. How is this different? How do I make sure that when I put a robot in place that I'm not frozen into kind of the way things were before? Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, first of all, I think outsourcing is great in the right situation, but you're right, for a lot of organizations, it was sort of out of sight, out of mind. And once I offshored cost, it just seemed to grow and never reduce, right? And we never improved the process. I thought it would be my mess for less, but it turned out not to be the case. Yeah, I think this is fundamentally different because the bots are sort of part of your onshore team. They're a virtual workforce. And I think as companies see what they can do, it's actually the opposite. They find more things that the bot can do so that humans can focus on the higher value added decision support. Do you think RPA will reverse some of the outsourcing trends and the pendulum will swing back? I think we're already seeing it. I do think it will do that. I think it allows you to insource some of those things and reduce cost in the process. And then just talking from a parochial US view, those software robots are global, presumably, but it reduces the need to ship jobs overseas to use the pejorative. It does, which obviously is popular in the current, you know, kind of current political environment. But you know, there's also entire industries like healthcare where because of HIPAA laws, they can't offshore activities. So they by and large have not been able to take advantage of outsourcing and so this is now an opportunity to reduce cost through bots. Yeah, I mean, there's two sides to that coin, right?  So your point about healthcare is quite interesting because first of all, that's an industry that's ripe for transformation. It really hasn't transformed. I mean, I think you'd agree, every industry is going to get digitally transformed in some way, shape, and form healthcare, financial services, defense haven't yet, maybe because they're high risk, but what are you seeing? Yeah, I think this is coming and it's not going to stop. I think you're going to see all industries take any advantage of automation. And frankly, I think RPA is just the beginning. I think that we all see this moving into artificial intelligence, but for most organizations, they want to learn with RPA. They want to capture some low hanging fruit so they can move then to the next level. So it's about training employees, it's about setting up a governance structure and kind of, you know, preparing for that future. When I see companies like yours at an event like this, I say, okay, there's big dollars in this event. And big dollars means that big dollars, not just for you guys, not just for guys like UiPath, but for customers. Certainly ERP was that way.  Are we seeing the same thing here? Is this kind of big dollar transformations? And my real question is, does it apply for all companies like Amazon, AWS? A lot of small companies can take advantage of that.  Yeah, I think they can. I think if you talk about a smaller company, you've got to activate multiple functional areas. So it's not going to be a single automation and a single function like finance that's going to bring you the ROI that's big. So in a smaller company, I think you've got to activate other back office areas like HR and supply chain and procurement. Whereas a larger company, we've worked with some very large companies where even a single process area can generate significant savings. What does a successful, the profile of a successful customer look like? It's a couple of that we've talked to. It's like, well, I know I need the executive support and I usually have somebody that's operations, maybe Six Sigma that focuses on that kind of environment and they're like, oh, this is a new tool that will help me accomplish what I've been trying to do for years. I think there's a few things. I think number one, having that common purpose, we know why we're doing this and we have specific goals. But I think to your point, it's having that executive sponsor. When this gets hard, they push through it and everybody knows they're behind it, be it a CEO or someone of that stature. And so what I've seen is when that's in place, you'll see multiple functions jumping on board. And one of the things we've used is media, for example. So doing videos where the people that have been involved kind of get highlighted for what they've done and that tends to spur efforts and now you want to be a part of it, right? And you want to show that you're looking for improvement in your area. And so we're definitely seeing some people have some pretty tremendous success. You said when things get hard, what are some of the headwinds that you're seeing? Is that just the natural aversion to change inside of an organization? Well, I think there's, in addition to the natural aversion to change, I think there's this idea about I don't want my team to lose their jobs, right? I'm worried about what that means. I don't want to get to a situation where I've reduced so many heads that I'm afraid I can't be effective in the future as we grow, right? And so there's naturally people wondering why are we doing this, what's the purpose, what's it mean to me? And so I do think it's important to do that strategy phase up front, identify the opportunities, identify the ROI so that we can all see why we're doing this. And it really is pretty impactful. So we started this segment talking about how most companies aren't at scale with RPA. Are there any examples you can share with us that where your clients are either headed there or actually have scaled? Yeah, there are actually several now, right? And so I always start with ourselves. I mean, believe it or not, EY over three years ago started automation in our own back office. And today we're one of the largest users of RPA robotics, as well as chatbots, machine learning, NLP. We think we've saved two million hours a year out of our own back office, which has been fantastic for us. And so we took those learnings at scale and have now started applying those to clients. But there are some big name clients. I think you mentioned a few industries like oil and gas and consumer products. We have some big clients that have gone to scale in those areas. So I think there's several examples that people can learn from. And that's primarily squeezing the back office lemon? Or they're... You know, it's been more of that to begin with. I think now what's really next for this is next generation use cases that include the front office and how do we make our sales force more effective? How do we improve our supply chain? I think there's bigger opportunities for next generation RPA and first generation AI. Hey, I wonder, Jeff, if you look at the market forecast and the classic market forecast, they're a straight line and you're looking at how many people will be replaced by robots. But it feels like there's this sort of blind spot where you don't really know where the innovation is going to come from. But like you said, it could be sales, could be marketing, could be your customer in the field. But it feels like there's a lot of revenue potential in other parts of the organization that are hard to forecast, your thoughts? Yeah, we have really come up with a pretty exhaustive list of use cases from some of our clients. And every day we're kind of thinking of new applications. And so I think you're going to see a lot more front office applications that are going to drive revenue as opposed to just reducing costs. And then of course, as you move into the AI realm, I think there's a lot more there in terms of revenue generation. But I think we just scratched the surface and there's a lot of opportunity out there. What's your relationship with these guys at UiPath? You know, we've had a tremendous relationship for quite a while with UiPath. Some of our largest clients, two of our Fortune 5 companies have gone to scale with UiPath. As Bill just mentioned in the overall session, we've created some solutions with them around SAP migrations. We've also done some things around document recognition where we've combined Abby with UiPath and some other tools from Microsoft. So we think that these guys, they are on the right track. They've gotten some investment dollars. They're partnering with the right people. And we like their strategy of knowing where they play and integrating with others who are better at other things as opposed to trying to build it themselves. So it's a great relationship and we look forward to continuing it. Well, it's certainly attracting a lot of money. These guys have raised over 400 million, I think is the number, 225 was the latest round. So the VCs are paying attention. Google's in there throwing money at it. So Jeff, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate your time. Yeah, thanks for having me. Good luck with everything. All right, take care. Thank you. Keep it right there, everybody. Stu and I will be back with our next guest. We're live from Miami, UiPath forward. You're watching theCUBE.


It is working on HOD directly, and it is efficiently on reducing control plan consumption. And it is the most simple way to use. The second way is export to and workload selector. They can be explicitly set on point name space, point service or configuration. In the mesh configure, there is a global default export tool, which can be used to set export to local name space. The third one is the sidecar. It is directly working on each proxy on name space. It is the most efficient way on sidecar consumption. The console is over VS2. It requires explicit setting for proxy. Okay, thank you very much. Hope you enjoy a good journey on this tool. Goodbye.