It's hard to land on Venus, but it's not impossible. The Soviet Union did it four times with the Vanera Landers and that's what we're talking about today on Vintage Space. In my last video about a 1966 proposal to send a manned mission to Venus using Apollo Air Hardware, a lot of people said that it would be completely impossible to send men to Venus. They pointed to the Vanera Landers as proof. The Vanera Landers lasted about an hour on the surface of Venus before succumbing to the hellish environment. The absolutely insane temperatures up to 900 degrees centigrade and crushing atmosphere that's about 92 times as heavy as we feel our atmosphere on the Earth. But the Vanera Landers were by no means failures. They actually accomplished exactly what they set out to do and they did it spectacularly. So let's look at what they actually did. When we think about a race in space, we tend to think about the race to land a man on the surface of the Moon. But there were other things that both the Soviet Union and the United States were after to score us first during the Apollo era. Among them, the Soviet Union wanted to be the first nation to send back a picture from the surface of another planet, and that planet was Venus. The program that saw this goal realized was the Vanera program, and the first mission to attempt a landing and take that picture was Vanera 9. Vanera 9 launched on June 8th of 1975 on a proton booster from the Soviet launch site at Tagore Tam. Four months later, it became the first spacecraft to enter into a permanent orbit around Venus. The lander separated from the orbiter and began its descent, sending information about the atmosphere back to the orbiter the entire time. The lander was actually designed to take advantage of Venus' atmosphere, specifically its dense clouds, as a braking mechanism so that it didn't need to use all parachutes and airbraking. The lander's bottom was flared with panels that both shielded the braking engine and also acted as an airbrake. 40 miles above the surface, three drogue parachutes deployed to pull out a small metallic parachute. That chute fell away about 31 miles above the surface, and from that point on, the thick atmosphere was enough to slow the lander. In final descent, a compressible, metal, donut-shaped landing cushion deployed to ensure a soft landing, aided by shock absorbers. Vanera 9 touched down on October 22nd of 1975, and transmission started immediately. Protective covers dropped away from the camera lenses that were shielded behind a nearly half-inch thick quartz window, but only one of the two cameras worked. And it turned out the lander actually touched down on a raised area, not a flat area. So instead of seeing a straight 360-degree panorama from Miranda lander, we actually see sort of half-circle looking down on the horizon. Temperatures rose steadily inside Vanera 9 from the moment it touched down on the surface, and by the time the internal temperature reached about 60 degrees centigrade, transmission ceased. But not before sending back a phenomenal image of the surface of Venus. These surface images of Venus might not be the most impressive we've gathered of all of space images, but they're some of my favorites because they're just sort of incredible what a spacecraft had to go to to get it. What do you guys think about it? For a little bit more on the Vanera program, but mostly some fantastic pictures of Venus and the surface of Venus, check out my latest post over on Vintage Space. It's linked below. And for Vintage Space every day of the week, follow me on Twitter as AST Vintage Space. And with new episodes going up every Tuesday and Friday, do not forget to subscribe right here so you never miss an episode.


Virtual reality technology is no longer science fiction. The battlespace exploration of mixed reality or beamer lab brings the virtual world to the warfighter to conduct simulated training, maintenance and operations. Technological advances in virtual reality allow sailors to conduct training that may not be possible in the real world. O&R's mission is to fund and fundamental science, applied science and advanced science and technology to take the science that we're working on in the academic environments and bring it forward to the warfighter. Beamer is one of these advanced science and technology efforts that harvest the work we've done previously to bring it forward to the warfighter to show them what the future could be. This will be the norm interface in the future. If you would like to learn more about augmented or virtual reality, visit the Office of Naval Research website.


personal finance practice problem using one note preferred stock current yield and price calculation prepare to get financially fit by practicing personal finance you're not required to but if you have access to one note would like to follow along we're in the icon left hand side practice problems tab in the 12 260 preferred stock current yield and price calculation tab also take a look at the immersive reader tool the practice problems typically in the text area too with the same name same number but with transcripts transcripts that can be translated into multiple languages and either listened to or read in them we're now thinking about investment in preferred stock which is a little bit different a little bit more unusual a bit more exotic than our other investments because usually we think about investments as two main categories either fixed income usually the bonds or the equities typically the common stock the preferred stock actually falls kind of somewhere in the middle technically it's on the equities side of things but functionally it acts more like a bonds type of investment which actually makes it a little bit easier to think about in some ways although it's far less common to invest in the preferred stock than in say the common stock because again normally we're either investing in say bonds for example or the common stock so the reason the preferred stock is kind of more on the equity side is because when you think about the corporation for example that say we're giving money to the corporation for a bond versus preferred stock if we're buying preferred stock from the company then they're going to be receiving cash and the other side is going to be in the equity section kind of like the common stock but now in the preferred stock section of the equity which represents basically the ownership interest of the assets of the corporation whereas if they were to distribute bonds if we bought bonds from a company they would get the cash and the other side would be a liability recorded in the liabilities section the reason preferred stocks are preferred is not because they're better than the common stocks but they have certain pros and cons related to the preferred stock the preferred component is typically that the payments for the preferred stock that dividends are more standard they're more set and usually they have to be paid before the common stock that's why the preferred they're going to be paid first they also have the benefit of if there was a default if the company went bankrupt then the preferred stockholders in theory get paid before the common stockholders when they pay out in accordance to the liquidation process however the bond holders get paid before the preferred stockholders so the preferred stock kind of acts more like a bond in that you're going to get these series of payments that are fairly guaranteed into the future although not as guaranteed as the bonds because if they don't pay the bonds then you actually default on the bonds and that's a big problem for the corporations but a fairly constant stream and certain stream of income into the future now remember with the bonds the fixed income side of things then you usually have the future cash flows that we're going to value the bonds for and that's going to be a series of interest payments like an annuity that we can discount and then we've got the maturity of the bond that we can discount to the present value the preferred stock is going to be a series of basically preferred dividends that will be kind of uniform going out into the future but there's no endpoint to them so they kind of go out indefinitely into the future we don't have the maturity date and we don't have that that lump sum amount at the point of maturity okay so given that we can try to value the preferred stock in a similar way that we can value the bonds and it's easier to do so than with the common stock because with the common stock we have a little bit more complexity because the dividends might vary more than they would with a preferred stock and because we also have the other kind of form of growth that we're going to have which would be the increase in the value of the stock price there's not so much fluctuation in the value of the preferred stock price it's going to act more kind of like a a bond because you're paying for the future stream of income in essence as opposed to paying for the increase in the value of the company as a whole represented by the common stock okay so we're going to say the par values 300 the yield at the time of issuance is 12 the current market price is 240 so the and the market rate is going to be 15 percent so if we're going to calculate the current yield we could say the annual dividend payment is going to be 300 dollars times the yield at the time of issuance which would probably be equal to the market rate at the point of issuance and possibly changing as time passes 12 percent that means it's going to be having an annual dividend payment of 300 times 12 percent or point one two of 36 if we take that and compare it to the current market price which we're going to say is the 240 so that's what they're trading for then 36 divided by 240 is the 15 percent so 36 divided by the 240 market price is the 15 percent current yield the yield remember is typically calculated on a yearly basis and that's the thing that we can use to compare to other types of investments of a similar type of nature to see which would be best now let's go ahead and try to calculate we're going to get back to this 240 calculating the price assuming that we have the current yield which we're going to say for example would be the market yield that we can get on other similar type of investments and let's say the annual dividend was the 36 dollars we can use our present value of future payments to get back to the 240 the market price in a similar way as the bonds remember on the bonds there's two cash flow streams that we looked at in the future one is the series of interest payments which is fixed and the other is the present value of the amount at maturity that we're going to be receiving kind of like the principle here all we have is a series of payments that is basically fixed into the future no maturity assuming they basically go on indefinitely because the corporation could live indefinitely so if i was the present value for example using the rate which would be the market rate the 15 percent because the 12 percent was used just to calculate what the payments would be and then comma the number of periods we don't know because it goes on forever so i'm just going to pick a large number because remember as you get further and further out into the future this dividend is going to be fairly small once we discount it back to the present value so i'm just going to pick like 100 here comma number of periods or the payment is going to be the 36 dollars and that's going to give us our 240 getting us back to that 240 let's try to map that out like we like we've seen with the bonds if i break it out on a year by year basis that we've seen up top year by year and we said for example 36 dollars if i discount the 36 dollars at the market rate 15 percent back one year it would get to the 31 dollars and 30 cents about so the rate here present value 15 percent number of periods one no payment because this is not an annuity comma comma therefore and the future values 36 so if i did that all the way across for year two for example 36 dollars discounted back two years at 15 percent 27 three years 36 dollars discounted 15 percent uh 23 and so on you can see it's going to get smaller and smaller all the way out and we when we get close to 100 way out into the future it's a very small number and that's why even though it's kind of indefinite it goes on forever we can basically we can we can value it even though there's no maturity date and if i was to add up that series of payments we get to the 31.30 uh the the 240 i'm sorry we get to the 240 that we calculated here so it's just and so notice this is actually a little bit easier in some ways than valuing the bond because we don't have that maturity lump sum at the end but it's a little bit more difficult at the same time because we don't have a maturity date this goes on you know indefinitely would be kind of the inception you could value this vertically doing the same kind of thing so if i take the periods from one down to 100 i highly recommend by the way doing these kind of estimates in excel because they allow you to visualize putting your table together this way they allow you to visualize putting your table together for this way this is easier to copy and paste this stuff vertically but the headers are a little bit more difficult if you had long titles for your headers you might have to use multiple cells or wrap this wrap the cells and then if we took our dividends at 36 and i present value them now i'm present valuing for example the rate would be once again the 15 percent number of periods is going to be one pulled from here this time no payment comma comma and the future value would be 36 taking that 36 discounting it back one year to 31 and if i did that all the way down this way it would be easier for me to copy the cells down this way typically and then i can then get and sum this up and get back to that 240 so again the preferred stock are actually a little bit easier in some ways to to calculate or estimate what's going to happen in the future than the common stock but the comments so they're kind of more like the fixed income but because they're kind of a hybrid type of thing they're somewhat in the middle between fixed income and the common stock most of the time we default to if i want fixed income i go to bonds if i want common if i want equity investment obviously i go to common stocks but oftentimes sometimes you might want something like this depending on the returns for it particularly if you're in a situation where you want to live off the income meaning you're in like retirement for example or something like that and you're looking for other types of investments that have a fixed return that you can basically be living on the return similar to dividends for the equity side of things or on the fixed income side of things similar to the bonds possibly finding some investments that might have a higher return than than maybe bonds depending on the circumstances


much. Thank you so much. Hello, and welcome everyone. Thank you for joining us today. We're so thrilled to be presenting our talk entitled The Summer of Open Policy and Metadata Mutually Informed Initiatives to Facilitate Sustained OER Collection Development. Quite the mouthful. This presentation is about 60 minutes in length with a few minutes at the end to address any questions. Additionally, we've pasted a link in the chat as well as in the presentation profile page in the comment section to the two documents that we'll be talking about if anyone is interested in viewing them throughout the presentation or after. Okay, let's jump right in. My name is Vanya Stanimic and I'm a master's of library and information science graduate student at Western University. I live, study, and work on the traditional territories of the neutral Anishinaabe and Haudenosaunee peoples in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. This past summer I was fortunate to join Ecampus Ontario under the leadership of Lillian Hogendorn. I was one of one half of the OER collections development intern team to spearhead the mediated deposit pilot project. I'm delighted to be presenting today with my co-interant and colleague, Samantha Daniels. Hi, everyone. I'm Samantha. I'm a master's of information graduate student at the University of Toronto. However, I'm currently residing in McMoggy, sorry, the traditional territory of the McMag people in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Thank you for coming today and we're excited to share a pilot project experience with you. Between June, July, and August, this past summer, Ecampus Ontario ventured to increase the quantity and variety of open educational resources in the open library repository, which is Ontario's dedicated online source for post-secondary OER. This project, dubbed the Summer of Open, was prompted by three things. First, we heard from our community that they were seeking to incorporate more OER into their teaching during the recent shift to virtual instruction during the COVID-19 pandemic, but that our collection wasn't expansive enough to accommodate these new and diverse needs. The second catalyst for the pilot project was an organizational desire to develop a collection that is more representative of Ontario's diverse community of educators and learners. And thirdly, we wanted to pivot to an active collection strategy instead of one solely dependent on OER creators coming to us to deposit their projects into the open library. As such, the pilot project was based on a mediated deposit strategy which involved searching online for new and adapted OER, engaging with university and college OER leads to explore emerging projects and resources, and finally depositing OER into the open library itself. In addition, the mediated deposit strategy was supported by the creation of a collection development policy and a metadata application profile with a view to extend the possibilities and sustainability of future growth for the open library itself. As a team of two, we developed a workflow where an eye searched for OER and led engagement, as well as the creation of the collection development policy, while SAM managed the collection of resource metadata, the subsequent deposits into the into eCampus Ontario's instance of de-space, and the creation of a more robust and expansive metadata application profile. We began the project with several goals and while they've evolved slightly as they do, the three that you see here are the distilled version. I'm going to go through them quickly and then we'll come back to them later. So the first goal was to add 125 new resources to our collection, which would bring us to a total of 500 resources in the open library. The second goal was to better reflect the diverse needs of Ontario's OER creator and educator communities within our library collection, and finally the last goal was to connect with our member institutions and the greater OER community to foster collaboration and sharing. In order to meet these goals, we needed to go beyond simply sourcing and depositing resources. We wanted to support the sustainable growth of the open library and two documents were an important part of these efforts. These documents were the collection development policy, which was created to formalize and communicate the library's decisions in the collection of materials, and then the metadata application profile, which is required to support the intentions outlined in the collection development policy through technological implementation within the library repository itself. And where the collection development policy is very much in the here and now of the library and the organization in the greater context, the metadata application profile is about setting up the repository to support the future growth of the library through that policy. And over the next few minutes, we're going to talk about the relationship between these two documents based on how they mutually inform the development of each other. So first up is Vanya with his collection development policy. Thanks, Sam. So one of the first things that we tackled right from the beginning was this OER collection development policy. Broadly speaking, a collection development policy is a framework and a set of guidelines or parameters around the collection of materials within which library staff and users work. Often these policies are one component of library acquisition and subscription strategies. They are documents that typically provide information and guidelines, which may be used for the selection of relevant materials for the community the library serves. They may outline the goals and objectives of the library itself, and they may describe how the collection supports these goals and objectives. Ultimately, however, these policies are a mode of communication, a kind of informal contract, so to speak, between the library and its community toward a mutual understanding of what the collection includes, what its priorities are, and how it goes about collecting the materials. So why is it important to the open library? It's important because it provides us with clear directions and guidelines towards a sustainable service model and facilitates continued growth of the collection. One of the first steps towards developing the policy was an environmental scan to explore if any OER-specific policies existed that we could use as a template. As it turned out, there are very few OER collection development policies out there. Most of the policies we discovered were created by post-secondary public or special libraries. As you can see here, the policies cover various sections. However, as we began developing our policy, we recognized that not all of the sections would apply to the open library. We found that we needed to expand and refine some of these areas to better reflect the OER context more specifically. In the end, the policy covers, the current policy covers, two main sections. The first introductory section provides helpful information about the open library, its mission and purpose, the collection objectives, the communities it serves, and includes a definition of OER, which is always helpful. The second section of the policy outlines the collection development components and includes information about required and recommended criteria for deposit into the library, scope of the collection, information about open licensing and copyright, and the main avenues towards depositing resources into the collection. So lots of information. In addition, we included information about the open library's ongoing efforts to collect materials created and shared by Indigenous knowledge keepers, as well as francophone content, and resources with the Canadian context in mind. This was one step forward, sorry, one step toward realizing our mission of an inclusive and representative collection of resources for all educators and learners in Ontario. We also aimed at diversifying the types of resources we collect by emphasizing in the policy the immense value of materials like syllabi, slide decks, and other non-textbook curricular materials. There were also some areas of the collection strategy that we recognized would require refinement based on community feedback and SAM's exploration of other OER metadata guidelines, namely how to integrate non-accessible resources into the collection to support the development while maintaining the distinction between those that are accessible or accessibility compliant and those that have the potential to be reworked into accessible adaptions. The other area of refinement included the acceptance of non-derivative work, which we recognized was highly relevant in contexts where the content required it, for example, OER with Indigenous content. So what do we collect? Very simply, the open library aims to collect and preserve OER of any digital format that are openly licensed and include at least one editable file. These two criteria ensure that all OER within the collection have the potential to be adapted, reused, remixed, and shared. Broadly speaking, eCampus Ontario offers an array of tools and services like Pressbooks and the H5P Studio, the aiding, creating, adapting, and using OER in the classroom. The collection development policy is, in our view, the latest addition to this toolkit, one that aids in facilitating the growth of the open library by providing essential guidelines, answering common questions, and making transparent eCampus Ontario's continued commitment to technology-enabled learning. We envision that prospective and experienced OER creators will consult the policy to ensure that the OER projects will have a dedicated home with optimal discovery and preservation. Ultimately, the collection development policy is intended to support ongoing growth of the open library collection in tandem with other OER initiatives such as the metadata application profile, which I will now turn to Sam to discuss. So as a basic background for those of you who aren't familiar, metadata is the descriptive information attached to all of our library resources. Metadata elements include things like the title or an author or license, and we use these metadata elements to facilitate the search capabilities in the library's catalog online. A metadata application profile is a document that contains all the specifications and guidelines that an organization needs to effectively describe the objects in their repository. It details the specific ways each metadata element should be used to ensure the goals of the organization are being implemented appropriately within the repository. The application profile gives guidance for consistently applying the same standard for every single record. An example of that would be the title metadata element, which gives guidelines for formatting and provides directions for what to do when you have a subtitle. Overall, the metadata application profile is an extension of the collection development policy. It's the means to enact policy developments and facilitate the evolution of library services in line with the ongoing pedagogical developments of the larger community. And while there are existing metadata schemas specific to learning materials like OER, some examples of that include LRMI, IEEE LOM, OER Commons, and there's others, we needed to integrate and supplement those schemas so that we could meet the specific information needs of our community. So the work done in the collection development policy as well as in the one-on-one meetings with our member institutions helped us to better understand what those specific needs are. For example, one of the key areas of focus we determined to be especially important to our community was the inclusion of Indigenous, Francophone, and Canadian-centric resources. So with that in mind, we needed to devise ways to best share and represent those resources in their appropriate frameworks. With Indigenous resources, the specifications for appropriate usage often go beyond standard open licensing, so we needed to ensure that we captured metadata that fully encompassed those defined appropriate usages. As a result, we've begun looking into the implementation of traditional knowledge labels, which was developed by local context. This example highlights the necessity of keeping the metadata in conversation with the community and its needs. The metadata schemas that I mentioned before are general enough that they have the capability of accommodating the traditional knowledge labels, but they're not currently used as default in OER metadata. So there are many examples of these types of decisions that we made about the metadata as a result of bringing the collection development policy into that conversation. And so the following three slides are some examples of that. So first, we enhanced our usage of metadata elements to better describe resources in ways that we determined are useful to our library users, and that would make it easier for them to find what they're looking for in our collection. This included adding resource typology and categorization search elements for learning material type education level and file formats of resources. We also expanded our use of relational elements to trace the adaptations, versions, sources, and interreferencing of OER in the collection. And we've decided to start recording sponsorship information about the OER to better identify those who are supporting OER creation and development. The work we did also led us to decide to expand and develop our controlled vocabularies like the subject headings into which resources fit, which increases discoverability and aims to better represent the library's collection in the ways that are most important to our community. And as Vanya mentioned previously, we're using metadata elements to facilitate the ability to include non-accessible resources in the library so that they can be developed into accessible versions while also ensuring that they're clearly differentiated from accessible versions. And we believe that all of the above examples are direct results of the collection development policy and metadata application profile working together. And with these two documents in mind, here is a summary of the outcomes of the pilot project. So as a reminder, we began the project with these three goals to have 500 resources in our open library to have those resources better reflect the needs of our community and to foster a community of sharing and collaboration. At the end of the pilot project, we have surpassed our goal of 500 resources. We've actually deposited 582 and there are another 87 that are in the queue to be deposited. And at the outset, 66% of the OER were textbooks, and we only had 17 French language resources. We now have sourced an additional 37 French language resources. And as you can see, our total percentage of textbook based resources has increased somewhat significantly. But we believe that's due more to the trend in viewing OER as being synonymous with textbooks. So it's something that we're continuing to work on. And that's an important point to emphasize the implementation of this work is ongoing. So we've set the groundwork and we're in the midst of transforming our open library to fit these new specifications that came as a result of our community interactions and support. And we'd love to continue to develop these relationships. So if you have any suggestions or questions or would like to get more involved, we would love to hear from you. During the pilot project, we connected with our member institutions. And we had eight one-on-one meetings, which has resulted in one pilot project that's ongoing with one of our member institutions. Well, Sam and I recognize that actively collecting OER can greatly boost the quantity and quality of resources in the open library. We were also interested in how sustained growth could be supported beyond the project itself. During the process of creating the collection development policy and the metadata application profile, we believe that it was essential that each of these documents should inform the other. That's beginning to lay the groundwork, as Sam said, for a long-term collection development strategy that is flexible and considerate of both the resource collection and metadata components. Some examples where these documents informed each other include areas such as accessibility of resources, as we already talked about, and the best manner in which to grade and display this element. Additionally, the expansion of the repository's control vocabulary through the metadata application profile ensured a greater diversification of content, which became a key aspect of the collection development policy. And finally, through our engagement with the university and college OER leads across Ontario, as well as ongoing metadata harvesting projects, we have been able to shape both documents to reflect and address our community's needs as we gain more insight. To put it simply, the foundation for ongoing OER collections growth are policies that outline the manner of collection, the goals of the collection, and a flexible metadata structure to ensure long-term sustainability based on the needs of our community. It has been our experience that creating these two documents in tandem are important for steps that require minimal resources yet produce valuable direction for the development of the collection. And as Vania has just said, I think the key takeaway of this presentation is that the long-term sustainability of OER repositories like open libraries require the development of both policy and metadata in conversation with the current needs and future directions of the organization and its community. The collection development policy and the metadata application profile together define the roles, responsibilities, and technical specifications required to support our open library and enable the efficient management of resources toward our collective goals. And that concludes our presentation. We have a few minutes for questions, I hope. Please feel free to ask in the chat pod and we'll try our best to answer them. Thank you. Thank you, Vanya and Samantha for sharing this wonderful work. We have many comments in the chat. One question, feel free, the ones that are in the chat chatting away to address any questions here. And that question that we, one question that we have, from Sanya, is a collection development policy you worked on available in the open by now? Is it available? Yes, absolutely. It's available and we have provided some links to the policy and we welcome everyone to view it and to adapt it and provide feedback where it's definitely an open document. Excellent. And also thank you, Leena, for sharing the link to the area NOEG Connect where we see that you have already shared your slides so you can have the access to all the links that you shared in the slide. Thank you very much for that. And unfortunately we have run out of time right now but I encourage everyone to continue the conversation, NOEG Connect. We have shared several times the link. I'm going to share it once again.


You know what, I just learned there's someone that works for the city that hates rats as much as I do. I gotta meet this guy. I'm doing this for 25 years, I could smell him, okay? So you're not quite at that level yet? I would call this like one of the epicenters of rats in New York City about five years ago. A couple of good things that we've done here that I think you support. We know the best thing is to eliminate the food source. Which is, I think, what your administration is kind of concentrating on right now. And that's what the public, the publics complain about those rats. Right. But then they drop food on the ground. Yep. Just to point out, look how flat and smooth the ground is over there. Right, right. That's how I know we, you know, Houston we got a problem. Look, look, look, look, this is, this is, this is, you know, it goes right through here. Yep, yep, yep. It goes right into the hole. Yeah. And not only that, it's probably running this way because, because of the garbage can. It's probably a burrow system with a dozen rats in there. Wow. So if you want to do a dry ice treatment, a skilled professional like that gentleman puts dry ice into the holes that they take it in, they fall asleep and they don't wake up. Right, right, right. Yep. And I think, again, the legislation was starting to get those plastic bags off the streets. So the huge takeaway is take away the food source. The number one thing. And I'll, again, I'll show you an example.  When you look at this, I would come here and the bags were this high across the street infesting that there were over 450 to 500 burrows in that park. Wow. This gentleman here with this compact, which reduces the stuff down to a quarter of what it is, you come out here in the evening. You do not see any rats. Right, right, right. I hear that over and over again. Food source, food source, food source. I think New York is involved in this.  Simple things. Simple things. Everyone can chip in. Yeah. You know, instead of complaining about the rats, participate in getting rid of the rats. Like it.


On our next one here, we got a milk reach-in cooler that I changed the thermostat a couple months ago. And it's cool starting back up and it's not running. They said it didn't get cold at all. First thing I wanna do is check and see whether anything is warm, which I already done did. I didn't have no heat coming off the hot gas discharge. I have a feeling that it's either not pumping or it's got a leak. What I wanna do is go ahead and do a quick check to see if we got anything that's noticeable before I tap into it and possibly contaminate the area. And that's basically what we're doing right now is just seeing if there's any major leaks because it had worked just fine prior to. And you know how that goes. You just look on it. All we're gonna do is we're gonna go ahead and tap into it and see if we're correct. And I just kinda wonder, is it a problem with the charge or what? And I bought these things a long time ago. There you go. See how this works. It's still here. Yep. You may have to make it tighter, I don't know. I'm just afraid that things will be too big. Don't be sissy. It'll be all right. It'll be all right. It's made for just recovery. I'm just doing this for test and purposes. Helen might leak her on the corners, she knows. I bought it a long time ago and I'm lucky if maybe I used it once if I even done that. So you gotta hit the power button. I'm not familiar with these things. Oh my gosh, look at that, zero it out if you want. They're never zero, because they don't have a fancy sensor in them. So we go to 404, not that it really matters for checking pressure, but all right, so we're good to go. It's got a safety glasses on. What about your hearing protection, you know? We can always go for more. Keep your face away. Even using this kneeling pad, my kneeling pad. Okay, it must not have punctured it. I don't even puncture. Yeah, I don't think you did it right. So, pop those suckers off or it's empty like we figured. Possibilities. Well, yeah. No, it's punctured it. No, it's definitely punctured. He's de minimis release them. See if we can get a pressure even though. I may not be punching it on that straighter core there. Before you try to ruin my seals. There we go. I mean, it's tight. There we go, we got three pounds of pressure. So it's got a leak. Love it. Look at that, it works just wonderful on it. It actually didn't work too bad.  Of course, they're dark so you can't see anything. So, you know. Oh, that's not good. Let's put some nitrogen on this thing and see what happens. You can see that actually punctured it pretty good. This is a big old clod fingers get out of there. And it gets shaken. Yep. You just call my fingers clod fingers. Got rude. Oh, wait.  It's Clyde. You also remember my name. It's Clyde. I don't even remember my name. I know what your name is. What is it? Starts with a C. Play hall. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. And you gotta use it to make a pond, stay full so it doesn't leak. And it takes a ton of it. So, you know. I'll give you that one, that one's pretty good. I try to be creative here. Yeah, you probably don't have a reamer in that bag, do you? Ah, we need a reamer for us at the end of your flyers as four. Oh, I know. Yeah, well, we're just gonna hook that thing on the outside anyway, so it's not a humongous deal. What we're gonna do is go ahead and get this thing tapped on there, and we'll do a pressure test on it. Now we'll see if we can find the leak with the ultrasonic there. Chances are it might be in the wall. If that's the case, there's not a whole lot you can do about it. Oh! Setting off the smoke alarm. There we go. Floaty, floaty, floaty. Don't melt that plastic on that thing. Don't melt that. There you go. It won't show that you've got your sunglasses on. I'm sorry, I went 56. So we've got, what, 155 in that thing? Boy, that's such a nice picture. Probably not wanna use my action camera anymore. Not losing yet. Not agreeing if we would've done it on the high side, we could use the pressure test timer built into the gauges. But let's see if we can hear anything. It's probably in a side wall, so we may not be able to find out a whole lot of anything. So we can't use that because there's gotta be some rodent stuff in here because it's squealing no matter where I go, but I go out into the control room where the chiller's at and stuff like that, and it goes away. It's just really super, super strong in here. So I got 155 pounds on this thing, and it's holding. What have we got going on here? You find anything on that? I was sorting about that right there. My fingertip. It looks like someone tried piercing that. I sprayed bubbles on there and it was crazy. You should be crimping it back here too, though. You're crazy. All right. Maybe we're both crazy. It could be. All right, well, let's find a sucker. I don't think it's leaking that fast. Makes me wonder. It's a 5.2 for a while. Yeah, it ain't dropped a whole lot. Let's switch it to the high side and put the timer on it. Well, that's not gonna work because we didn't put the trader core in there because I told him not to. Perhaps check your brace joint here. Doubt me. Yeah, not really. It's all right. I mean, you got like seven inches of brace on that thing. It should be all right. So, it's not really dropping much. Let me kind of see if it, it's live and direct. Of course, it just went right back up to 152. You can see right there, that's three eighths lines going up. You can see the capillary tube right there. Basically what you can do is isolate it here and pressurize the wall. Find out if it's in the cabinet, but we're not really to that point yet. However, we're not hearing anything. Can't hear anything because the ultrasonic's not on door. Now we can take it out in the parking lot and we can double check it out there. But that's not even a guarantee that you're gonna pick it up because if it's inside this insulated piping that you can't see because the light won't turn on, you're not gonna hear it if it's sitting underneath that. I'm not seeing, we should see some oil somewhere if it's leaking and I'm not seeing any oil. Wilbur has a hypothesis. He says, what happens if the capillary tube is plugged up? 100%. I suppose it's a possibility because you're not gonna back feed from the condenser into the compressor. It's gonna hold against it.  It could have sucked it all up, pumped it into it. It's not gonna equalize if it's 100% plugged. Now I've never seen it completely, completely plugged like that. Spaceship was just working beforehand but I suppose anything's possible. So we're gonna go ahead and relieve the pressure off this thing. Cut that thing loose, put one on the high side and see what we get. We should have probably recorded it but we went ahead and relieved the pressure off of this thing. But it sure didn't seem like, I mean, granted, it only holds 10 ounces. Let's go ahead and cut that high side but be careful, make sure you got your safety glasses on there. So we can get frostbite today. Oh you sissies, all you get new guys are so afraid to get frostbite. Eventually your hands just go numb and you don't feel it anymore. You should wear gloves. I've been sure off a bit before already. Nope, meth busters busted. All right, let's go ahead and put one on it anyway. And you paint it on the outside, make sure you pull it in there. There you go.  He's getting scared, he's scared now. We've got one on the high side, one on the low side. Let's go ahead and get that thing hooked up there and see what we get. You getting something? Yep. That kills that hypothesis. So wait a minute here. We know that it's now bleeding through one side to the other. Now we can't use the ultrasonic in here. Let's go ahead and just pull a vacuum on it, throw it for refrigerant and then charge it up, see if it runs and then do a leak check and then they know that there's a leak somewhere and we could look for it. If we don't find it then they know there's a leak and then we just go from there. Because I mean at this point we're kind of just wasting time. Filling a little laser today. Getting one to bring in the other comp. So we're pulling through the big line. We've got the little line there just doing the high side. Because otherwise we're pulling through the capillary tube. Either way, I just want to get it pulled down. I want to see if it holds or if it's hurt horizon. They just get it done there. We're bound off. We got well under 500. We're watching it. It's, you know, it's coming up a little bit. You can see the leak rate, it's pretty slow. But I mean, where do you think the refrigerant went? Do you think it just evaporated through the sidewalls of the copper? No, you got a leak somewhere. Is it humongous leak? Obviously not or it'd be slamming high up fast. Quick, quick, boom, boom, bang, bang. Really fast. So we're going to go ahead and recharge this thing. We're going to see what we got. Let's see if we can scan for the leak so we can find the leak. If not, they know they got a leak. School starts here in two more days and they needed to run. Just added to the list of all the other equipment that doesn't last until we're out and they can't get because everything's back-ordered. It's running right now at seven degree evaporator temperature, which, you know, this is going to run a little colder. That pressure looks a little high. We're also a warm box, which is going to drive everything else up. How are we doing on temperatures there if they hand-touch method? The coil is a lot warmer than the bottom. Well, that's good. It means we're condensing at the bottom, coming out of the liquid, going in hot gas. Yeah, that, I don't like the head pressure. It's really getting up there, but we just started it. It just seems like it's up there a little bit because it's kind of cool in here. We're probably lucky if it's 70, 72, 73, about 40 degrees over ambient. We went over by half an ounce to two and an ounce. We didn't go over a bunch. When we disconnect, we won't dump it back in. We'll just keep what's in the hoses out of it and kind of see where we're at. Just do what? All right, so it just shut off, which this is going off of skin temperature. How's the walls look? Are they starting to frost? Yep, that's good. So it's starting to frost all the way through, so it's feeding really well. Same thing down there at the bottom. So it's feeding. What we're gonna do is leave a note in there and put the date of what we did. And I would just tell them that, you know, it may last for quite a while. It may not. We can always dig into it deeper for right now. It's gonna run. But, you know, this is the very first time it's been tapped. If this is as old as what the school is, it's at least 16 years old. And they've done pretty good compared to what most things that are, you know, nowadays where they're built. So we're gonna do that. We didn't find any obvious leaks. We was able to pull it down under 500. It held for a good majority of the time. Some of it was just boiling off the refrigerant in the oil, which is normal. And, you know, it charged up right and it's getting cold. So it's gonna cycle a few times until it gets to treat box temperature. That's gonna wrap this one up. Everything else looks really good on it. I think it was just getting low and just luck of the draw. We replaced the thermostat, which the thermostat was having other issues. And we ended up, which they replaced the thermostat part of us getting here, if you remember correctly. And we got them the correct OEM thermostat and it worked fine for the rest of the season. And then, you know, summertime happened and here we are. So that's what we got guys, on to the next one. So we're on the next one. We came here to clean some ice machines and they're like, hey, cooler ain't working very well. So we got us a beverage here, milk cooler, obviously. So because I got Clayton with me, I'm gonna let him figure it out. He's probably not done too much with these, have you? Not so much specific to these, but... So nothing's running, right? That's what they said. We got power. And we got power.  If I wanna pull this out, make sure we get power to the compressor and then I just gotta add a compressor start cord. But I don't... You don't have a start cord? I made a video on how to make one. Yeah, I did. Getting one ordered. Well, here's the thing I'm thinking, okay? What controls the compressor and the fan motor? What do I mean? Well, I'm just wondering, do we need to tear it all out of there? Can we find some of the problem faster? Kind of go with trial and elimination. So if the compressor was defective, wouldn't the condenser fan still run? I guess, yeah, it should. Okay, so why not feel both of them, see if they're hot? Maybe we're both off on thermal. Feel anything? No. Okay, so we doubt it's that. So the next thing it controls, that would probably be what? These aren't very fancy. They don't have any pressure controls. What do you mean what we're controlling? What turns it on and off? Thermostat. Yup. So where's the thermostat at? I would check a thermostat first to see if it's got power. It's probably hidden in there somewhere. It could be on the back. It's hard to say. Sometimes they'll tuck a probe up through the back and it's underneath. Oh, there it is. So what I would do to be safe is probably unplug it and then drop that down and check and see if you got power there. Once you've got that kind of isolated from all the stainless steel to short into, you should be able to check power to see whether you got power coming in and going out. I guess the other thing too would be since this has an evaporator, I didn't even know it had an evaporator. I thought it was just an evaporator plate. I thought maybe the fan would be running, but I don't think I heard even the fan running. So it might be something major killing the whole thing. No power to the stat, not even one leg. Make sure just because it ain't looping through it don't mean that it ain't got one leg possibly. Kind of go to chassis ground for make sure and then I always double check with my little light stick just as a backup. Anything? You're on probes. See you right here. That's really crazy. It ain't got nothing at all. Well, I bet you anything, we've got to get into this top panel possibly. What do we got underneath here? Take a lucky. Okay, there's main plug right there. That's where it intercepts and distributes power. There's a pan there. So let's see if we've got juice down here to this thing. Let's go in this case. Trust them, we shouldn't. Yeah, we got it on the one leg. They must have that ground wrapped around it because it's blocking the lines. So the power goes right here. See that? And it kind of makes its way up that stainless steel. I would say let's unplug it and start looking inside there. That is really odd that we're not getting anything on that one. I'm wondering if we got a block down at the bottom because that should be picking that up. This is pretty sensitive usually. That block I wonder is defective. This is where the light pan comes in handy. Let's dig into that, see if we can get that. We'll look back out. Let's see if we can get into that. There's usually a screw holding this block in right there, Phillips. See this comes in here. That intercepts and breaks one line with the thermostat. Power comes in on this terminal here and goes on up. But for us not to get anything on that one wire unless I'm getting a false alarm, makes me think that box is defective. Now to be positive, without being destructive we'd need to probe that wire. You would think what we've got going on here is you've got power wire going up on one terminal, one lead, coming back on the other and empowering that thin blade there on the left that's your hot usually. That's what I think is going on. I have a funny feeling that this is where the problem lies. You know what we could do, you could go here meter. You could go from the one side here up top to down here to see if you got continuity. That would kind of save us from having to tear everything apart. It might be a little difficult, you may have to stretch. I'd be able to put this thing up here in the middle like that and hook one lead into the bottom there and then you may have to take off your prongs there. But it should be the female socket. It's a little thinner one. You can see that we've plugged in there, the smaller blade. She'll drive one in there and then stretch that around.   Are you gonna try and force it through this side? That's open in the back like that? Yeah. Really? Yeah. That's pretty sad they didn't insulate it very good. Yeah, because I mean, for me to tear that thing apart, it's gonna be completely destroyed. So I don't really want to tear it apart unless we're positive. Get it on one of those terminals. So you got it on one, get on both of them? Well, you still got it on the thermostat. Okay, so the thermostat's closed. Go ahead and unplug the thermostat. You want to isolate it and get that open. You want to find out which one's your power leads. So re-probe it there and find out which one it is. So you got nothing on that one. That's probably the power coming in. The other one you should have it on. Nope. Try it on the other one. The lead that you unhooked. There you go. So that's your power lead going down. So the other one's the power coming in. So now you should be able to take the cord from the wall. Outlet. I believe the one here on the left, right there. And probe the other one there. One's neutral, one's hot. So you want to, this one right here's your hot. So go there, do the one, and then go to the other one too inside and see if you've got continuity. The other one's back there. So you don't have anything. Well, my other one is in that interceptor block. Okay. Okay, so what we want now is to take that one because we tested the one we could test. So we want to test now there to there. What you're doing is this is the power coming in. Are you following what I'm saying? So you got power coming in on this cord. It comes down to that block. Comes out of that block. Comes up to the thermostat. Comes thermostat back down on the other plug. So they're sending power on one and bringing it back on the other. That's why the neutral's separate. So you should have continuity between one of those terminals. I believe it's the one on your, that right there. And it should be the terminal that you didn't have anything on the last time. That makes no sense. So that one, I didn't have any continuity on this one last time. Well, correct, because that's your power wire. So the power's coming in from there to that side on the right. And it comes out on the other wire back down to your plug that you're plugged into. So what doesn't make sense to me is is this plugged in and then they intercepted the walk back there? Well, I'm wondering how you didn't have any voltage on that. That's what I'm wondering. Because if you've got it now with that, there's no reason why you shouldn't have voltage. And a light pin should have picked it up. So even if a neutral's busted, you still should have had some voltage there. Something don't make sense here.  But my pin's acting a little weird. So it's something to sense. Something weird going on. So he's able to disassemble it and everything looks like it's fairly tight here. But I'm not really impressed with it. Okay, it has a crimp on there. So can't say so because people get mad about that. What we got here is basically, I ain't supposed to say basically.  Why? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, exactly. What we probably end up going to boil down to is we just need a new male plug on the end. Because look at that. Everything's pretty tight right there. You can kind of visualize what's going on here. You got one wire feeding up above to the thermostat, comes back on there and then feeds this outlet here. So everything's fine. It's gonna be that male plug. But yeah, go ahead and there she goes. Comes down to it. Looks like we just got a bad plug here. But that's smoking and stuff. That's crazy. But that looks like what happened here has gotten so warm in the past that it kind of melted that and indented it. That's not good. No good. No good. So you can understand how we did it. It's pretty simple, right?  I told him he's got these wires too long. So what's the verdict? The verdict is you destroyed it and it's all your fault and they're gonna take this out of your check for the next six years. Correct, that's how long it would take too. I know. No, you've got a plug that was malfunctioning and we're ordering a new one but for right now we've put a temporary one on there to get you by since you guys are starting school here real soon. Yeah, I mean it was working. Yeah, I went, whoop. Nope, nope, just defective plug. Yeah, I told him that. I said, you're gonna make this about an inch and a half. There. And he's like, no, you're crazy.  I can't leave that layout like that. I smell defeat. So I was learning. Yeah, yeah. Did we mess it up bad? You burnt the whole building down. This plug right here was starting to smoke on the end. Well, how long did we have that plugged in for? Last week we put them in. Yeah, it literally, it wasn't getting power up there. We was having some problems with it. We had power at the plug but wasn't getting through the wire and then finally after we checked everything out it ends up showing that the thing starts smoking. It's like, yeah, that ain't good. Oh yeah, because Becky said they plugged in like for a week. Yeah. Yeah. You got that yet there? I got things to do. Trying to find a hole. Seven days later. These are some cheap plugs, but we got it. I can't imagine why this is acting up. I mean, they got this thing kind of cranked in there. I do not like that plug either. Kind of got that, look at that. Kicked it right on. Our biggest problem is the email in plug. There was no good way to check that block so we were getting a new block. We got this mounted on the outside so it's easy to make sure it doesn't get pulled out of place. It's taped all back up. The same piece of plastic was on there. It's just not a rivet, holding it down. Just that piece of plastic, the plastic tape and it's all back in there. It's gonna work for them until then. We'll get the right UL rated plug that's OEM for it and it'll be good to go. But that's where your pin thing will come in handy. Because I mean, it basically told us right off the bat we didn't get power up here. Agreed? Yes, sir. Okay, get her done. Let's get on to the next one.


Well, thank you very much for attending this last session. And we're having a bit of a boff today. And so having a large room is going to be a little bit hard for interactive, but there is a microphone there. And so feel free to come up and ask questions. And we want to make this interactive. Just give a little, we're going to start a bit of giving a bit of background as to where we're looking at. And we're mostly going to be focusing on the ELISA project. So let's start off with this. So we've all been seeing this in the news recently. This application is there in reality today. SpaceX is sending things up into orbit and is fairly active today. We also have dashboards in our cars that are computer screens effectively. And more and more functionality is moving into being digitalized in our cars and systems. And then, quite frankly, some of our cars are actually starting to learn to self-drive and have driver assist as well as various AI applications starting to come in. And then we also have, there's a project that we're looking at in the medical devices working group in ELISA that is the open APS project that's been working since 2013, which enables type one diabetics to do better control of their glucose through a combination of raspberry pi and then some FDA approved devices like a glucose monitor and insulin pumps. And what these all have in common is they're all running Linux in some way, shape or form. It's been documented that the SpaceX platforms have Linux in several places. In the AG, like in the dashboards, we're seeing more and more of the AGL systems being deployed into the telltales use cases and so forth. And so Linux is there today. We're also seeing that the Tesla cars are running Linux and the stuff is going up to mainline now. And so open APS, everything in the algorithm is running there, but it's running on a Raspberry Pi, which is running Linux. So Linux is underlying a lot of safety critical applications that are in deploy today. And what we need to do is figure out how we can analyze systems so that we can be effective. Now, to put this into perspective, about 69% of the embedded market is running Linux today based on various surveys that people have done in the embedded space. And Linux is very pervasive through a wide range of other market segments as well. But we have a challenge. Open source software is going into safety critical systems. However, there's different mindsets and different cultures in both places. And this is where we're coming from. We're trying to figure out how can we get this interaction to happen better? And so we need to build bridges between these communities. And as you can sort of see from these early pictures of the Golden Gate Bridge being built, you set up structures and then you build the pieces so that the communication can happen across this. So figuring out how we're trying to build these bridges is one of the things that Shoe and I feel pretty strongly about between these communities. And we have started working on this project and is open source compatible with safety standards? Well, yeah, it is. However, it can be very expensive and difficult to find the evidence we need to do the right argumentation. And so part of what we're doing is looking at use cases and trying to understand and working with a lot of our colleagues who care about these problems as well to figure out how we can get this improved. And some of the insights that have become very visible over the last few years is you have to think like a system. It's being used in a system. That open APS system, for instance, or a car. And so there's different mitigations that you can make in system level as part of the analysis. But you need to get the right data about the software that's running. You need to define and limit your scope. You have requirements you have to satisfy. And you have to automate as much as you possibly can because there's so much data out there. It's not going to work without it. And then there's evidence that you're going to be having to collect as part of your development cycle and making sure that that's available. So there's a lot of software engineering best practices that need to be considered as we work our way through this type of thing. And some of these mindsets are not necessarily the first fail, quick fail-off type of thing. And so we have that culture difference that needs to be done. But to be fair, open source has strengths. The code is available publicly. It's been scrutinized by anyone. Code reviews are happening. There's direct feedback. We need to know if we've got the right side of reviewers. But there are so many eyes on the Linux kernel There is a lot of inspection that's going on already. And there's a lot of debate about the right types of things. I was sitting in the discussions yesterday afternoon about how do we basically handle print K-Bear so we can get the last preempt RT patches upstream. And doing the analysis of all the various cases and what could happen, what should be preempted, what should not be preempted. This is the type of argumentation that the analysis people will be looking for, but it'll be very hard for them to find. And so the question is, how do we start to surface the strengths better? And there are no good examples publicly that we're aware of right now. So there's three projects that I have familiarity with that I work with. And Shua obviously is in the Linux kernel community doing a lot of work on the test and tracing, so forth, validation of the LTSs. But the Zephyr is a very small footprint. The Zen is a hypervisor. And Elisa is looking at Linux. How can we get the stuff we need out of Linux? So we need a path forward for closing the gap. And we have these available starting points. And we wanna try to build industry consensus and this is why this is off. So if there's things that you wanna talk about, just step up to the mic and start discussing it with us. And you wanna take it from here? Yeah. Thank you, Kate. As Kate mentioned, the challenge here is how do we have, we know we are doing the design. We know we are, I'm talking about Linux kernel, and we follow reviews, lots of ice get on the code and design itself and we do all of that. The question challenges, it's not demonstrable the way the safety experts want to see it demonstrable. So that's kind of a nutshell challenge. So what we are trying to do is we have safety experts and then we have Linux kernel developers and then we have people that want to use Linux in safety critical applications on their platforms, develop them and deploy products and such. So we have these three groups. How do we make sure, for collaboration, we do want to use Linux. It's been used, it's proven. We have been here 31 years and been using it in all sorts of fields. Why not in safety critical? So it's not why not, they're already doing it. They're already doing it, it's just, we are coming together as an open source and we're all facing the same challenges, right? Everybody involved that wants to use Linux in safety critical applications have the same challenges. They might be from automotive, medical, aerospace and other areas, but there are other domains, they're all, they have the same issues. How do we demonstrate safety? So that's where we come in in Elisa and we are saying we are providing this neutral place for all of us to come together and talk about our challenges so we can identify common processes and techniques to be able to work with. To work with, yeah. So we are that, so we have challenges in some of what are the components we use. So let's talk about a little bit of our mission. So we're essentially going to be providing a common set of elements and processes and tools. What does that mean? What does that, what means is we might come up with, say a process to say, how do you go about figuring out what your workload needs are on the Linux kernel, for example, what is it using? Linux kernel has multiple subsystems and multiple system calls, multiple Iotls, but what does your workload need when it's running during runtime? So runtime image. So you figure out, okay, these are the system calls, these are the subsystems that are actively being used. So once you understand that, you know the areas that you can focus on. To figure out, once you understand that, you can be looking for dealing with continuous change that happens in the Linux kernel and then also looking for regressions and just focusing on the areas you want to focus on. And then also coupled with that, you have the runtime picture, but do you have, depending on the, you want to look at the workload and say, is my workload giving me the complete picture of the footprint? The example I give for that is, say you opened a file system, opened a file and you did the data access, open and you access data and you close the file. So that is a path that your workload can show you, but that's a success path. But what about the other paths that haven't been exercised by the workload? So to be able to get the complete picture, you need a workload that will tell you what the footprint is. So that is one challenge. So we have our, white paper talks about our strategy. Take a look at that. And then, and then also we are, I'm going to tell you what we cannot do first and then we'll switch into what we can. We cannot engineer the system to be safe, right? We cannot ensure that you know how to apply a described process and method. What we can do is, we can create, we cannot create also, I totally Linux kernel. We're not providing, at least I is not providing a safety Linux kernel. Yeah, there's commercial offerings out there. Yeah, no code involved here. You still have all the responsibilities as a provider of this platform or product that is based on a safety critical platform that's based on Linux to meet all your obligations, legal obligations and libelies. But what we can provide is a path forward and make it easier for you to go through, go through the safety analysis and be able to say, we are going to present these evidences too for certification. So we are going to provide a qualitative analysis for automotive and medical and we have now, We're working it, yep. Aerospace coming in. Yes. And with going joining us, I fault. So we are going to take these use cases and the three domains coming together, sharing their challenges. So we'll be able to come up with a process that works for all three and generic. Yeah, and each of them have different standards associated with them. And so it's figuring out what those common elements are from the standards that we can assemble evidence for and try to basically build some consensus. So that is our challenge right now. Yes. So essentially in a nutshell, bring people that are working, trying to deploy Linux on their safety critical domains. And then with working with different standards, like Kate mentioned, and then we will figure out processes and we'll come up with processes and resources and pull all of them together and say, system will make that available to system integrators for them to look at. It could be white papers. It could be GitHub. We have a GitHub presence. We keep publishing our documents there. And we have working groups. We have several working groups that are focusing on various aspects. We have automotive, medical, and we're going to be adding. We're not showing it yet, but we're going to be adding aerospace there. And then those two, those domain working groups, like for example, automotive, medical, and then aerospace, they feed their challenges, discuss, come up with the telltales and use cases, and they feed that information into our other working groups that are looking at safety architecture, open source process, engineering process, and then Linux features. So they are all looking at, they bring, that's where we are bringing exports in different domains. Linux kernel features, looks at Linux kernel features and configurations. Ilana is here. So she leads that. And then we have safety architecture and GAB is here doing that. And then we have systems. Maybe, Philip, oh, okay. Phillips there, cool. So he's over there. And open source engineering process is led by Paul. He's not here, but we'll be meeting him. We'll be meeting in Manchester and working group next week. So that's kind of what we're doing. And we have tools and investigation code improvement. What they do is they're looking at, continuously looking at, they're taking Linux kernel bits and then testing them, doing sysbot kind of analysis on that, making sure quality is good. And then also when they see gaps in documentation, because we do need documentation, right? So when they see gaps in documentation that something is not explained correctly or the process documentation or they keep making enhancements. They are actively sending patches to the engaging the Linux kernel community from Elisa and the safety group. And so those are all of these working groups working together. We'll put up many tools doing patches and then we come up with all these processes and we engage them, or engage the larger Linux kernel at conferences. We just had kernel dependability and testing microconference at the Linux plumbers Monday. So talking about common issues. And so technical steering committee oversees the technical strategy aspects. And it is, we have voting members from all of the working group chairs. We make decisions together. We vote on them. And when we have a strategy decision to make technical strategy or reviews of our documents and publications and so on. So governance and those are, and then yes, we're also, technical steering, GSC also coordinates a linkage between working groups. We come up with the meaning if our automobile medical working group wants something. Something tools working group need to do to prove something. So we kind of coordinate all of that. And we meet Wednesdays, once in about bi-weekly meeting. So mornings nine to 10 Eastern, right? Yeah, it's open to anyone. It's open to anyone. If you're interested in understanding what's happening, just show up. Totally, all of these working groups open to participate. So you can check them out. This is working groups in action. And then... So this is just a bit more detail. Just details about what's happening. Each of the groups has their own mission statement and has their own activities as to what they're actually looking at from the architecture perspective. The ideal, I think for most of these groups is to have things upstream, drive it into the documentation for the kernel or else into our repository for documenting the processes. You wanna talk that one? Yeah. So Linux Features Safety Critical LFSCS, what it does is it does a deep dive. We come together to do a deep dive on kernel features and their potential value to support safety goals. So we're continuously looking at that. And then open, oh yes, open source engineering process. They, this group works very closely with the Linux Features Group, identifying processes and techniques to apply safety engineering principles because that's really where the gaps are, right? Because we know we are doing the right things. We know we have processes that get followed but we need to be able to map them to... To those pillars in the bridge as it's being created, right? And then we string the connections across and then we can start to put the roadway across it so people can go back and forth. So these are all parts of putting that framework in place so we can get to ourselves, be effective and bridge that information. And some of the motivations are literally this motive, Elkstep is really focusing on trying to get that bridge built. Yes. So we already talked about tools. I touched on that earlier.  And then... For medical devices, we're using the open APS system that we're showing earlier and we're using system theoretic process analysis, methodologies on it to decompose the issue. And we've been going back and forth and iterating on refining our requirements as well as our loss scenarios and use cases. And we've been finding this to be an effective way of getting ourselves to the boundaries of Linux. And now what we're doing is starting to do workloads through Linux. And one of the things that she has been working on with Shafali who is our intern this summer is figuring out how we can actually do the traces and understand the pieces of Linux that have participated in a workload execution. So yeah, thank you. So we did a higher level analysis for this last year. We come up with a higher level picture of what overall open APS load is using. And then this year with the help of our mentorship candidate, we used, we wanted to go surgically, go deeper into looking at closely what a workload is using. And we wanted to do a generic workload because that way system integrators can take this process and say, okay, this is what the blueprint for how I can understand my system needs, my platform and my workload needs. So we analyzed, we also strategically we really made a conscious choice to pick workloads that are easier to just opt in and find. So Perfume, StressNG and PaxTest, we picked those for different reasons. And once we did that, we did the S-Trace analysis and we published that on our GitHub, you'll find that. There is a link right there. Starts to let you see the bridge into the architecture group because it's letting us see the trace history and which actual modules and components and what the control path is through the kernel that's being exercised so that the architecture team can start to look at these components and the interactions between parts of the kernel that may be executing in parallel with them. And then we can focus on regressions and safety considerations with the dot in mind. And automotive. Automotive is basically going after the same sort of use case except for the telltale from the AGL approach. And I think over time, there's a lot more sophisticated ones that people want to see us to but we need to get our basis properly understand in the methodology of working with this. Like I say, autonomous driving is obviously a hot topic, all the data sets. How do we start working with data sets, training data? These are dimensions we'll probably have to go to as an application down the road but our focus right now is Linux and the interactions there. That's correct. And then the one most recent working group that's been formed is systems. Linux is happening in a system. How do we get a reference system available? And so Philip, who's there is taking the lead on helping us put together a mixed criticality system and working with Linux then, which is a hypervisor and the Zephyr project which is a resource constrained RTOS to basically show enhancements and how to start analyzing a system. Because in all these cases, Linux is gonna happen in a system. So trying to figure out methodologies to work with this type of information is one of our emerging areas. And as you can see, these things are all starting to interact and build up the various pieces that we want to look at. Reality is software code out in the ecosystem is composed of a lot of these elements here and have to figure out how these interact and the challenges for the integrators is going to be part of where we want to be working. So it's to help us build a bridge. It took four years for the Golden Gate Bridge to be built and it is safety critical in the sense that if anything happens to that bridge, people are gonna die. And there's millions of people going across it each year. So figuring out this framework so that Linux can be effectively deployed in these places is kind of where we want to be going and what we'd like to talk to you guys about. And so I guess with that, join us, but if anyone has any thoughts on this or next steps or ideas or things we're not thinking about, we'd really like to hear. And I know the big room is intimidating but maybe someone will come up with a microphone for us. Okay, thank you. Thanks for starting us off. Much appreciated. Oh, you'll hold the microphone for someone? Okay. Yeah, does anyone have any questions or does anyone have any concerns about the approach? Have suggestions for doing it better? Yeah, I don't know. It's not a question, but what I just thought about was yet the slide where we see Xan, Sapphire, and also Liza. Maybe we can also use this because I see we're giving a lot of talks on the Liza side but maybe we could consider also for one of the next events that we just set up a panel discussion. Yeah. We'll see Zephire Pratt, and I guess we have the standard Zephire Arters front. They have also the safety track in there. And then along was Xan, which is normal and safety. We have five, six people and we could just actually use it. Yeah, so it's a good idea to do a panel. Like I say, if I had more time, I probably was gonna put in some of the Xan and the Zephyr stuff as well, but I didn't want it just to be us giving a presentation. I did want to have a bit of interaction with the problem, but yeah, I'll put that down for, let's put it into a future talk for doing a panel on with the three different communities. I just suspect Stefano would be quite willing to do it if we can find a place where he'd be able to talk. And I suspect we can probably get Simon in from Zephyr, or Nicole. Anyway, I also thought on things we can do differently or things we want to improve. One of the things that was happening at the Linux Plumbers in the Kernel Summit yesterday was the discussion of improving the Kernel documentation. And one of the things that seems an obvious opportunity for us is they're looking at trying to restructure the documentation. And so I was asking, well, where do we put our safety information? Okay, there's various personas. There's a developer persona. You know, there's an application user persona. The integrator persona and integrator that's looking at safety thing is gonna want to see certain evidence. And so as we rework the Kernel documentation, if we can get a structure in place so we have an easy place to put the analysis from the architecture group and then get the maintainers to review that analysis, I think that will be something that'll be very useful to a wider community. And quite frankly figuring out all of the modules of the Kernel, figuring out where the boundaries are mentally, how the interactions happen, is not well documented. You go to the code, you get lost for a while. That's kind of what seems to be happening, or at least for me, other people may be smarter than me, but it's okay. But getting it so that we can make that available, I was talking to John Corbett. He seems to be receptive to us. He wants to get this structured. So possibly having him talk to the architecture group and as you guys are looking at understanding the interactions, putting that information available and getting it reviewed by the Kernel developers in charge of those modules and interactions, I think will give us some useful knowledge that isn't there today, and build some consensus that way. So that's one thing that's come out of this week that I'm excited about. Yeah, definitely. Talking to John Corbett, who's the Documentation, Kernel Documentation Maintainer. And then we also had a discussion that there is other people that are wanting to see documentation include. We are looking at it from safety perspective and we are saying how do we do that and how do we provide that documentation to somebody that is looking for demonstrable evidence. But there are others that want to look at the documentation for other reasons. They want to look at it to see what needs to be tested. When something is tested, a test fails, who do we reach? And those kinds of things. Our system in perspective is quite different than someone who's running an application, running integration into these applications. So the aspect of doing persona and a developer is going to care about it. And there's a lot of documentation for newbies, but that's one persona and someone who's doing integration and trying to understand how the interactions are happening is going to care about different things. And so there's a receptivity right now and some prototypes out there to start improving the documentation into the persona perspective. And so it's an intriguing idea and I'm hoping we'll continue to have more discussions and moving it in that direction. Anyone else have thoughts? Go for it. This is someone back there. Oh, okay, well, up to them. There's one here, he'll get the microphone. So he gets the microphone first. Run. Hello. This is a very practical question, I hope. Okay. I think we're all in the sort of business of taking what are very generic projects and making them very specialist. And one of the difficulties when it comes to audit is that you're confronted with a project that has tens of thousands of files, whether that's the kernel or U-boot. And even for just developing, it can be very difficult to actually get that mental model. Do you or perhaps anyone here know of any automated tools to automatically strip that down to just what's required? The trace efforts. Yes, so we are trying to do that. So what we have done is we have done two things. We took the OpenAPS workload, which is a Python workload. We took that and then what we did is before starting OpenAPS workload, which continuously runs on Raspberry Pi, we modified the start script to turn tracing on. Kernel has tracing. So we just said we are going to just let the workload run for maybe 30 minutes in an hour and then see what it's using. In the process, we wanted to also run, we also ran some commands. We did that. We got a bigger picture of what device drivers, as the workload is coming up, it unloads modules and loads modules. So we get a picture of exactly what it's unloading and loading, right? So we get all of that. We were doing LSMART before and after and then we collected a picture of, we got a higher level picture. We did that. And then what we wanted to do was run OpenAPS commands, individual commands. For example, you have a command that says, tell me what is the insulin level in the pump right now, right? So there is a command. And then we wanted to run that in S-Trace to see what exactly does that look like. We were unable to do some of that because we didn't have the hardware, we didn't have the rig. So we just said, okay, maybe step back and just take a generic workload, which is already in the kernel perf command and perf does benchmarks and then you can run various benchmarks on CPU, memory and so on. So we said, okay, we'll run perf benchmark with S-Trace. That would become a process for, we did that with few workloads, Pax test and then we picked the stressNG because stressNG is another workload that can exercise various things. So we did that, we put together, put that process together and we have identified all the tools we need. How to, when you see a memory, I mean subsystem, a call, system call, how to find it in the kernel using C-Scope and browsing. We pretty much put together a process for how to do, how to process. So we did that and then now we are looking to open APS. So we've been reaching out to the open APS and there's been people who've said they'd be willing to help us collect these workloads but they wanted to know how to do it. And so we put this information together and I think a lot of the safety work we're gonna be doing is running these workloads that are requirements through this system, understanding what it's touching and then understanding what the implications of it touching these things are. And so making these tooling available in a more practical way for people to access this information. A lot of the kernel developers know how to do this because they do it for debugging right now. They're using it for debugging. We are doing it, we took, I mean what we did was okay, we have this tool available that can also give us insight. It works as a discovery mechanism. So next step for us is going to the open APS community and say you have the rig, you know how to use open APS, please use our process and give us the data. So we have requested that and we'll probably get that in the next few months and hopefully we can share that. And then the other hope we have is that we can use it in automotive, use telltale and develop that picture. We have a telltale, automotive telltale that we have mixed to the quality telltale. So we can potentially use it to gather that. And the other hope is I'm thinking when aerospace comes in, they will fill in the blanks in that space and they can give us their workload and sample workload that we can run. And see quite frankly whether or not, like I say, we started off with STPA in medical and then the automotive guy said yeah, this will work for us too. And so we're starting to evolve these processes for doing the system decomposition into what's effective and not. And so as we figure these things out through multiple attempts, we're trying to get it documented and see that others can work with it too. It's a multi-pronged approach. And other monitors, there are monitors work happening and Gaby's here, he can probably fill in a little bit more about that. And then those things are, the monitors is in the kernel monitors, they will real time going and figuring out which it's a different way of collecting data. Runtime where Claude is running and we are going at it as a stress and look at the system and then monitors is doing monitoring, usage is monitoring stuff. So that's happened. This is that, did that help? Sort of it, I suppose my, that's sort of a dynamic analysis. What I'm after is a bit more sort of static. Oh, there's a lot of static tools out there for doing cross-referencing and understanding call flows and everything else. And I can probably point you at some of them. What I'd like to be asked is like make clean only my stuff. Oh, everyone wants only there. And not for any build objects, not for build objects, but for source code. And lots of people would probably hate that, but for my thing, just being able to cut down the 10,000 files to. So one of the things you can do if you're using Yachto is build your kernel with Yachto and you'll get an SPDX S-bomb out of it and it will list only the files that are included in your image that you came up with from Linux. I'm not using Yachto, maybe I should be that. Yeah, so like I say, that's the hack right now. That's there is just to say, okay, all these configs are set up. This is what it's going to bring in. Here's a fine executable image. And Yachto will do that with changing one config line right now. And then if you mind that file for the Linux kernel, and so Saul Wold from Wind River did a lot of the work behind that. We're trying to refine that type of stuff, but that gives you a quick snapshot of exactly what you care about. So you're looking at the static image of what your workload includes static. Okay, I think there was one at the back. Before we run out of time, they're starting to show five minutes left. Just at the minor pause. Okay. Oh, thank you. Really quick, so I appreciate you being able to share the fact that you're partnering with Automotive as well as Aerospace. But is there also any sort of plans for working with the other lifeline industries such as water or the energy sectors? Yeah. Is there any sort of outreach happening or is there a way to get their feedback into what types of information they might need? So I interact a lot with Shuli, who's the lead for the LF Energy Project at the Elinx Foundation. And I've been working on Espalms and some of that stuff with her. And I think there is definite interest and it's a matter of going and presenting. I've presented in the past, I'll continue to present to see if we can get people want to form together. I would certainly love to get an industrial group going of people who care about the industrial standards, which overlaps with those two specifically a lot. But there's regulations and things like that and no one's talking about those aspects that aren't to this yet, as far as I can tell. Excellent, thank you. Sure. Feel free to suggest people to talk to you. Go ahead, Phillip. Yeah, I just wanted to add from the previous part that we have the special interest group for SPDX on functional safety, right? Because this is also the idea to add tags and things which help them just start it, but if it goes on the long run, you have a little more. Yeah, so if you're interested in how to summarize and create Espalms and so forth, there is a group that's crossed between the Elisa community and the SPDX community that is busy looking at figuring out how to document the evidence. And we're also working with the Zen community as well on this one. And so what the requirements are, how the specifications are working, what are all the evidence that you want to automatically generate out of your system so that you can do the appropriate analysis. Thanks for that reminder. Appreciate it, Phillip. Okay, oh, we've got one more hand before they show me the number. I think this will be the last question. Yeah, hi, I just got a question on the Linux kernel. So I mean, it's a pretty complex system, right? Oh, yeah. Statingly obvious, but I think one approach of my systematic approach might be maybe to go back in time and look at the Linux kernel when it started out and then architecturally look at the evolution. So doing dynamic analysis can be pretty difficult on a complex system, but in parallel you could have a group that's looking at, let's go back to basics when we really understood it and it was easy to analyze dynamically and then maybe look at the evolution of the components over time. It might, it might help. So we actually have that capability today. It's called Kregat and C-R-E-G-I-T.linuxsources.org. And if you look, there was a report given called the Kernel History Report. It's about two years ago now. Two years ago, yeah. But we were able to trace pieces, tokens in the kernel back to 19, the start first kernel. And there's, it's actually in the print, it was in the print subsystems, you could find some of them. And there's a few of them, but you can see literally all the Git commits. So there was, there was three Git trees that were stitched together. There was, once Git started formally, there was a BitKeeper version of Git Tree that Thomas Gleixman was keeping. And then prior to that, someone created GitTrees for every version snapshot of the kernel. And if you stitch that all together and replay the history by looking at a token version of it, you can see evidence over time. And there are literally tokens from those first versions still there. And you can see the evolution of modules, what's coming in, what's not. We have that transparency over the history of the whole kernel if we need to. And we have people that want to work on analyzing that tool. Great. So, you know, it's a question of someone wanting to go and do the analysis for aspects in some of the modules. And it's a good point actually, is when we start having issues with some of the subcomponents, we may start looking back in history and using these types of tools for that purpose. That's great. I wasn't aware of it. And I was actually at least in many summits on Monday, which was really good. And one of the observations as well is that the security community doing a lot of work right, analyzing the system as well. And to do a lot of threat models and analysis for vulnerabilities and exploits. So that may be something that could be leveraged as well, right? To work with them a little bit because there is a bit of overlap there too. So yeah, we are tapping into that. We follow the kernel protection project as well and look at see how they are looking at it. You know, the problem spaces are a little bit, there is no overlap, but there is a little bit different. We are looking at that as well. We look at their scripts and we tap into whatever we can to get the, I mean, you also have to see a particular, to understand the system, you also have to see what is supported. Different architectures support different system calls. So we have to, we kind of looking at that as well. We are using audit tool to get the information on which system calls are actually supported on a particular architecture. That's one of the tools we use. And we go and check the kernel protection website and then get any of the tools that they are using to configurations. They look at the configurations more closely. They are coming from a security angle and say analyze your system and tell us, well, hey, you're missing this configuration that's very important for security for this reason, right? So our goal is at some point, we will have a script like that that will go and analyze safety once run, will tell you this is something you would need for safety. So that's our goal to get there. So that's really what we are looking to do. So yeah, just this is, this is the Kregat tool I was mentioning and you can just basically look at that and they're going to cut us off now but you can go in and drill down and then see who actually committed something at what point and it goes down to the variable level. Okay. Thank you. Again, thank you very much everyone for staying for this last session. Thank you so much. Feel free to reach out to us directly.