Hello, this is the regular Jenkins governance meeting. Today is January 13th. We had a break again Christmas holidays, but now we are back. And there is a number of topics we have to discuss today. Do you see it? Yes. So we have a few news and we have a planning for 2021. Mostly defining key priorities and other things. We started doing that for the new year blog post. But yeah, this is a good place where we can discuss what else we would like to see happening next year and what would be the priorities for the governance board. In addition, yeah, for the information, I dumped feedback we've got during the elections about what would be the priorities for the board, etc. So you can take a look. This feedback has been filtered. So there is no sticker requests. But in general, there is some summary and people will mostly expect us to keep driving initiatives, to set up technical direction, and of course, to keep expanding community and getting more contributors involved. Okay, so let's go to news. One fresh news that today we had a security release. The security release involves multiple fixes in the Jenkins core, including XSS, and where there's a serialization error, potential past driver cell and access files. So if you use Jenkins, please update. And we have both LTS and weekly released. So all the packages are available now. Other news that we have FOSDOM as usual. So this year FOSDOM will be virtual. We will have Jenkins developers stand there. And the CICD room, we will have a talk by Victor Martinez about Jenkins. And probably there will be more talks at the conference. So please check our agenda. And if you are interested to participate just by the Jenkins booth, it will happen on the weekend. And we will definitely have someone available. Any other news updates anyone would like to share? Just a reminder, we'll be using advocacy and outreach to encourage people to assist just with the Jenkins developer stand. And we're going to send some directed emails to specific individuals asking if they'd be willing to help us. I gave a list of possible of some suggestions to Alyssa Tong and she said she was going to reach out to them. Also speaking of that, there is a message in the developer mailing list about the budget and if I recall correctly, maybe an advocacy and outreach. Yeah, it's advocacy and outreach mailing list, I believe. So if anyone has ideas about what would be sponsored in terms of events, et cetera, please bring it up in this thread. There we have some Jenkins project money, but well, this is really to sponsor community marketing activities. And yeah, this is a great opportunity. Once we're completed with Bosdom, I had a chat with Alyssa to start seeing about scale. I believe scale will be virtual this year as well. I haven't seen any mention of scale on their site. So I am interested in that, Markey. Thanks very much for doing it. I will make sure everybody is in the loop on that. But if scale happens, it's great. Okay, any other news? It's a Christmas break. Okay, then 721. You have a few topics. In the message about the governance meeting, I wanted to specifically talk about the contributor onboarding and security. But yeah, this is a place where we can discuss other topics. If you have anything in mind, because we still have documentation, we still have events we need to organize and other things. So we can just discuss what would be the priorities. Why I put contributor onboarding to the list is mostly because of this graph. We've discussed it a few times before. But this year, when the COVID situation started, we have seen quite significant deep in terms of company contributors. In June, we sent a request to the Linux Foundation to verify whether this data is actual and my understanding that yes, it's actual. So how it gets generated, there is in the bottom link to the file. And this file is basically JSON. You can download it from GitHub FS. It's quite big, but I'm not showing it because it includes emails in plain text. Well, emails which people share in GitHub profiles, but I still want to show that on the record. So you can take a look and but I verified a number of Jenkins contributors and basically it represents the list correctly. So yeah, there are some contributors listed as individual contributors, but I believe that this graph is relevant. Oleg, in terms of my interpreting this graph, so the darker color that's in the back is associated with the axis on the right. That's developers. And the lighter color is associated with the axis on the left. Yeah, it's right. Okay. Okay. So basically, if during the momentary period, 20 days, there was one contributor from the company, it counts. Okay. So what? Compared to other projects, we have a big number of company contributors, but yeah, there was significant decline. So I tried to do some analysis. Firstly, we had less hosting requests for plugins. And yeah, it's natural for companies to create their plugins for integrations. It's not like we didn't have them at all, but compared to the previous year, we have less of them. And yeah, secondly, it's contributing patches back because yeah, it's one of the ways how we get the company contributions as well. You run a Jenkins instance and yeah, something breaks, you submit a small patch, and basically you get into these statistics. So what it means is that you should definitely work on improving contributions and seeking contributors. And of course, it's also related to Jenkins promotion, especially for modern platforms. Because other adopters and hackers are the common personas who contribute better. Do you think it might have anything to do with all the new CI platforms that have been added in last year or so? Of course, there's a lot of them now, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's a case. And what it means for us that we should do better outreach to users for different platforms. And yeah, of course, this also has offerings. Now the situation becomes more complicated in terms of attracting contributors. It's not a surprise. We've been discussing that contributor summits before. But yeah, we still should work in because Jenkins is used in so many areas. And yeah, there are so many sources of potential sources of contributions we cannot get. Because yeah, of course, many people would move to SaaS and to other offerings. At the same time, many other companies become more open to open source contribution. So it's opportunity for us to facilitate contributions. I've definitely seen companies that previously were not doing any continuous integration looking towards it. So I think there is still an opportunity for us to have new people arriving, even with the increased competition from SaaS providers and others. Yeah, but it's we need to we need to actively work on board contributors. Derek, and here come events and other activities. So again, you can split in October first, October first helps here, no doubt, getting individual contributors. I believe it helps less these company contributions, though particular initiatives could help as well. For example, targeting custom platforms is one of the areas which we discussed before multiple times. And I think you should do within that. I got kicked out of my Zoom account. So I think it's one of the priorities for the next year. And yep, it's not like anything green. It's what we need to do. And yeah, that's why you have links going for we have an opportunity to focus on that. I think it's I think the corona problematic is, for instance, in Germany, nobody has really time for anything for free time. So in my spare time, I need to care for the children more. So maybe this is also a problem. I don't know if others also have the same problems. Definitely. Yeah, it's definitely this, I think. So just when I look at my contributions, I had, I think three months, no release of my plugins, because I need to make this and that and then care for the children. And so I think we need to wait a little bit longer to say that everybody is leaving Jenkins. No, I don't say so at all. No, it's, it's proportional looks like the number of individual contributors is going way up while companies are going down. So it's companies are not helping out. It's not that, yeah, not even not helping out. That's the wrong word. Yep. Any contributor has full freedom to do. But yeah, what it means that, for example, your student on the lockdown, then you can go participate. But yeah. So that is a good observation that the, what looks like the average number of individual contributors is roughly the same from 2019 to 2020. But there is a, there is an observable difference between contributing companies. So do we need to consider a way to reach out to companies to encourage them to motivate their, I don't know how we do that even, but I think, Oleg, I think that was part of your point was that it's not, it's individual developers were relatively flat, but companies are the thing that's down. Yeah. So firstly, it's stewardship for contributions because we know that for many plugins basically contributions and get stuck and providing the family feedback. Assistant to this, getting changes in is one of the key opportunities to onboard and retain contributors. So this is one area and second area again, focusing on cases which are important for bigger contributors. So for example, yeah, finally making official armed support and docker images, et cetera. So these are cases where we could make a significant difference. Well, go ahead, Marky. One question that I do have is with the list of, are we going to create a list of action items for 2021? I think we can just dump it here in the meeting notes. Okay. About what we could do because I have some ideas in regards to corporate outreach because we've seen this, you know, in other open source projects and I've seen sort of ways they've worked on that, that I think I could apply here as well. Can I just have a link to the notes? I can't find them. I'll get them to you, get you the link separately, Olivia. Yeah. Anyway, we should keep doing all the things. But the company contributors are important. At some point, we had a discussion at the UPS World Contributor Summit, how do we retain and increase company contributions? I can also pull the meeting notes, but I think we should dedicate more time to that. And do you have already an idea how to proceed on that topic? Because something that we did in the past was to identify key areas that third company want to promote and maybe trying to find a way to promote those areas. So for instance, I know that Rodat is interested with the Jenkins community's operator and this is going to accompany, can't remember the name as well. So maybe it is the kind of initiatives where we can help. Yeah, that's one of opportunities. So cloud means Jenkins is there where everyone is interested. Platforms are there. Cloud providers as well. Sorry for the interrupt. That's fine. We can also fix the blog sharing thing because right now I realize I haven't been reading the blog because we're no longer posting to Twitter. I realized that early last year, but at least then it would encourage people to post because then they can get a bit of traffic. Yeah, it's a manual process. Well, I've been spending significant time over the past year to just 15 minutes on the morning to capture a few tweets, etc. and schedule them for repost. Okay, but now I don't get to that. But I mean, this is something we could also just automate, right? So every time a new post goes up, shove it into LinkedIn and shove it into Twitter type thing. Yeah. Yeah, Alyssa is doing a great job for Jenkins in the way. But we know that there are more stories being shared. You just search for these cases. Yeah. Anything else on this topic? Again, it's something for us to consider. Contribute to the on-boarding has been always on our list. I think that this year it's just important to keep doing things and expand. So, Oleg, is this a place where it's okay to note that I'm going to try to take the lead to convene a contributor summit either in around the FOSTA time or in the March time. I'll start the proposal. I've got to still send out the draft proposal. I was thinking advocacy now it reaches the place. But just so people here are aware, I think we should do a contributor summit in what Northern Hemisphere might call the spring. FOSTA February or March, that kind of time. It definitely won't be before FOSTA and it won't be during FOSTA. So, do you plan a contributor summit or how we used to do it before when it was rather a user summit? I was thinking contributor summit but I'm open to input there. That's a good question. I hadn't thought of a user summit. I was framing it more around the kind of event we did last year after FOSTA in Belgium where it really was developers and people who were contributing to the project. I'm open to suggestions. I would also be more interested for the contributor summit because the FOSTA, the booth at the FOSTA allow us to highlight improvement in the Jenkins project or at least things that we want to promote. So, in terms of reaching to users, I think the FOSTA would be a good place. In this case, we are more interested about how we federate about all the different initiatives in the Jenkins community. So, to me, I would be definitely more interested for a small contributor summit than a user. Also, the other reason why it would be easier is because, depending on the technology that we would use, I mean, it's easier to target a smaller audience if we want to have something interactive. So, we have some account. We can support breakout sessions and other things there. So, up to 50 participants is what we can easily host. Yeah, after that, you will get more people participating in the same time zone. Right. And time zone is one of the complicating factors there. So, that's a good thing to note that I think it needs to be live and therefore, time zone is a challenge. But it's worth the challenge because we then have more communication. And yes, I think we should use breakout rooms. I've liked how they've worked in other environments where I've used them and I've been impressed at how helpful that is to do a breakout room. But something that we also have to keep in mind is since we are not in the same location, we don't have to do the contributor summits. I mean, the same day, we could split the contributor summits on different days and say, let's say on Monday, we want to focus on that area on Tuesday and this area and so on. And so, we have smaller periods where we have to focus and maybe it will be easier for people to participate. Yeah, good suggestion. Yeah, I agree. So, let's see how we're going to start, but definitely two time zones. Are two happening? It's in mind? I don't. I've got to start the proposal there, Oleg, so I don't have great dates yet. I'll suggest them through a separate proposal and we'll start that conversation by email. Okay, thank you. Also, just for the date, I would also not suggest to use a date closed or neither for them our scale because one of the reasons why we did that during first them or any other major event is because everybody was there at the same time. But on the other side, we already have plenty of things to do for first them and other major events, which means that it's maybe easier to just find a moment where it's more calm. Agreed, particularly since FOSDM in order to participate in the stand, I'm going to be giving time Saturday and Sunday and that'll make it more challenging for me to say, let's do something immediately after that. Yeah, I will probably ask for a little bit of gap time-wise between the FOSDM event and when we do this summit. Okay, so then moving on. Okay, so other, I think we should double down on this year is Genki security because all the recent events with solar beams, et cetera, there are much high expectations from all components participating in software delivery cycle. They've already some questions coming about security and I think that we should facilitate this discussion in the community and to see what we could improve. Actually, there is a lot of improvements happening. For example, last year I published some stats, so there were 19 advisories, almost 200 fixed vulnerabilities, but some of which were just disclosed and this fixed. So it's a quite high number and there goes two improvements. So now many plugins have dependable, including Potomac security scanning, Github for QL, mindset bugs and other components. So still there is an open question about what we could do more, for example, how we deliver to the components, how we help maintainers, how we grow security awareness in terms of contributions, because many common practices could be either enforced by tools or could be promoted and it would improve overall situation. So I think that this is a good conversation we should have over the next months so that we can actually define better practices and ensure that the key components are much more stable and they get enough attention, not only from functional standpoint, but also from security standpoint. It's a wholehearted agreement there, so yeah, there are definitely opportunities for us and I think that we can collaborate more. Yeah, there is a security team and security team is doing a great job. More members, they could also help, especially getting more vendors participating because right now we have basically only two vendors represented the security team and there is a lot more. So I'm not sure what exactly they deliver in terms of security or what it's always, but yeah, it's up to them. Yeah, so even if there are any particular ideas what we could improve there, I'm happy to discuss that, but it's one of the topics I would love to drink up on the mailing list. I could offer some help there. I have some insight into scanning vulnerabilities, especially using GitHub Actions from a previous life. This is an area that interests me as well. I never really had the time to work on that, in fact I also have mid-id's, so let's find some time. Thank you for the interest. It's probably worth, and I know I'm throwing it into other people, but it's probably worth putting up a blog post about this because it's one thing for the people who are already involved to get more involved, but this would be a great opportunity for a lot of people who are not involved to get involved. There's a lot of new security analysts out there that are really excited for a project to get working on, and then there's lots of security companies out there that could get involved and we could get our graph to go back up. Yeah, also there are formal opportunities. For example, last summer we got a CI batch and what it means that now we are potentially eligible to get access to tooling, pro-core infrastructure initiative if needed. Well there are tools like SneakAvailable there, and also you can probably even apply for an audit program. The audit program doesn't seem to be really active, you know, and we can also continue our certification because even if we have 100%, which we have 133% in Jenkins now, there is still 178% more we could achieve, and there is a lot of additional security practices which we could adopt, so of course we could have. So yeah, all this activity is also a good opportunity for us. Yeah, so yeah, this is basically our CI, and yeah, it's 100%, but for example, we can click on the golf level, and for example, the risk security section. Full disclaimer, we haven't fully processed that, so zero or five means that we just didn't process that actually. But yeah, you can see that there are some requirements, like using basically the graphic practices, which is slightly okay. Yeah, some software delivery requirements, protection from the middle, some additional requirements like security review within the last five years. Yeah, so of course there are some items we could consider for these levels. Here, secure development knowledge, the project must be secure design principle, we are applicable. Yeah, multiple graphic cardings. Again, this hasn't been really processed, so yeah, likely we comply with many of these items. I think we should keep this conversation, and that we should add more topics to the agenda, but yeah, my next step is to actually bring it up in the developer mine in the east and start making these other stakeholders, specifically with the security team. Okay. Are there any other priorities for the next year we could add to the list? Nothing for me. So the special interest groups, I don't know that they need to go on this list, but I think our special interest groups are good indications of places where we've got more work to do, platforms, documentation, infrastructure, but I don't know that we need to list those hero leg as much as just be aware that keeping our special interest groups vital and functioning is very useful. One of the things that I would like to see this year if possible is special interest group leads. Maybe it doesn't have to be all of them, but maybe they rotate in once a month they come to this meeting to give us a SIG update. That's an interesting idea. Well, and that's actually that's part of the SIG Charter, but I've been using write an email or write a blog post, but yeah, that good good insight, Marky. Yeah, it was a part of the original job for a bit at least every six weeks. Then you said that you would be rather doing it over mailing lists or blogs. Right now it's not really active. One thing for 2021 and it probably won't get dealt with, but it should at least get thought about is trying to consolidate some of the communication channels because we are spread out very, very, very thin. And it's interesting, we actually had a request this week for an info issue on the UX mailing list. We have people popping into a different SIG Gitter channels asking general support. I think we should try to at least consolidate a little bit. I kind of like the idea of maybe moving everything from mailing list to discourse, so it's all in a nice one spot or formalizing and saying, hey, we're dropping IRC from the official list or it doesn't really matter, but just consolidate. Yeah, I can't spell that up either. So I totally agree with you, even though I feel like everybody wants to use different tools. But the problem is that we let everyone use different tools, which means that the, so there are complaints that in the, that used to be able to talk to, quote, developers in IRC, but now you can't anymore because they're not there. And that's the problem is everyone's in different spots so that nobody's in any spot. Yeah, I definitely agree with you. It's hard to keep up on all the different challenges and communication tools and so on. That's right. Perhaps it would be beneficial to put out a blog post, just have to be a short blog post that basically is summing up, hey, the best way to communicate is through mailing list and this is what you do. You may get some people here, but you may not. Maybe something just as a reminder to the community, you know, the ways to communicate. This is why Matrix is the best. Everyone should use Matrix. Yeah. No? Okay. Yeah, I definitely agree. I mean, that's a great tool. Well, at least it closes the problem using Gitter because it's not. Yeah, it's definitely improved my user experience together. So as a non-Matrix user, would you be willing, Gavin, to do a demo sometime of how that works for you and what, because for me, I'm definitely not using that tool and would be interested. Is that something you're willing to share in terms of showing us how? Yes, but I don't think, I mean, yes, in the 2020 and goals thing, yes. I don't think it's really a short-term goal because I was going to take a little bit of time for it to solidify a little bit. I also kind of think maybe we want to look in running Jenkins's home server, so then that might be the way to wait for as well so that, you know, use your LDAP credentials or whatever else you log in and you get access to Gitter, you get access to all the chat rooms, they're all very easily searchable. So there's a few things I think it might be worth deciding, maybe not implementing, but deciding before we do a demo. Okay, thanks. Thanks for the clarity. But I haven't pushed in them yet because it's been a busy couple of weeks. So what else do we still have pending terminology cleanup? In this situation, it's significantly improved over the past year, but I think we should keep pushing that. Yes, I agree. Yeah, so we had two bumps, one October 1st, another one your UX summit, there was a lot of cleanup here in this time frame. Still, if you run GitHub queries, you can see a lot of occurrences, even in user-facing things. So we need to clean up. Anything else we would like to add? Nothing for me. I think this is basically to keep growing. So it's likely a foundation for the contributor summit. Yeah, definitely some initiatives we could facilitate now. And then, you know, there's things I want to do to improve the plugin site, but I don't have specific plans. I do want to make sure that, you know, again, super spreading out. So issue tracker is my big one right now. There's plugins, some plugins using Git, some plugins using Jira. I want to make, it's hard for the end user, but I do want to make sure that it is clear for the end user where to go. But I don't know if that needs to go on the roadmap. Well, some items could definitely go on the roadmap, maybe just keep on growing plugin site or plugin site 3-0 if you foresee any major changes. At the moment, we're, I think I'm good, but yeah. So let's see. But yeah, any of these gradual improvements finally help our users. So the new plugin site was really well accepted. Yep. And we're looking at the, between Tim and I, we try to share the stats every month. So it is kind of interesting to see which plugins it's really the big ones. I mean, Git is always at the top of the list. But it's not always the top top, but it's always in the list. Could we, could we maybe start publishing those via social media? You mean trends? Maybe once a month or every other month. Well, which trend are you, this is just a search trend, right? I'm talking about, so Google every month sends us a report to say what your top search results are. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about the plugin stats. I mean, the plugin, those are, I would say those are more useful to publish. I think the, which plugin is getting searched for in the most, it's probably less important. It was in docs. We have some stats about how many times a specific plugin is download. Yeah. So we could already, basically everything is available through JSON. So we just have to, to serve for every plugins and some visualization. Yeah. It's also in here as well. Oh, I didn't know you could actually get that in here. Yeah. The data is all there. It's all indexed and merged in. Oh, okay. That's awesome. Today I learned. Yeah. And if you go to the actual endpoint, the actual API endpoint, it actually has all the data as well. So slash API, slash plugin, slash checks. No, no. Oh, yeah. Same endpoint. Yeah. API, slash plugin, slash, and the single, singular. So plugins. Check plugin. Working a single plugin. Yeah. So it has all the data here as well. That's awesome. I can parse that easily. Yeah. Yeah. So it also returns basically. But yeah, better somebody to improve it. And then I think the plugins, I mean, we can go with later, Mark, but the plugins endpoint has all plugins. This one just has a specific plugin. Yeah. I think it would be beneficial to maybe once a month or something. I'll, I'll get an email drafted up to send to the advocacy and outreach to get every, solicit every button's thoughts. Yeah. Okay. So let's move it. It might be worth. I would be curious to know, to have the visualization of what's the top 10 plugins that people are looking for information? What's the top 10 plugins of what people are contributing? And what's the top 10 plugin that people are using? Well, I've been studying over the past months. The sad thing right now is if you look at the trending graph, all the API ones are the ones of the top users because every plugin or a bunch of them need to solve them. So it's not very useful data, but I'll think about it. The other way is, is to know which plugins are worth contributing to, you know, it'd be nice to see which ones are having an update in a while in a public list. So people can be like, Oh, I want to maintain this. Great. But it's also difficult because some plugins are more stable than others. Plugging that hasn't been touched in seven years is probably not a stability thing. Yeah. So anyway, promoting is important. And we know that we have a lot of plugins up for adoption. Yep. And we can improve the categories and tagging support right now. It's pretty... Oh, yeah, it doesn't work that way. Yeah, I was like, I didn't know that I did that. Yeah, I tried to implement it at some point, but I haven't really submitted the request. But yeah, that was quite a list here. And definitely, there is a lot of things when the camera contributors. Yeah. Okay. So do we have anything else for today? As far as I can tell, the next meeting is in two weeks, as usual. And yep. So by this time, we can start the discussion about priorities on the mailing list to see what would be the user feedback. And probably try to do as well as that, but we can almost approach this maybe late in February. One more topic. Do we want to continue with this meeting time? Is this working okay, Gavin, for you and Markey on the West Coast and Olivier, Oleg and Uli in Europe? I mean, it would be better if we have it later or before this time, because 7 o'clock here is the time when I'm bringing kids to bed and... Yeah, same, exactly the same for me. Okay. Maybe two hours before or two hours after would be fine for me. So just seven is a little bit hard for me, because... I am very open to changing the time to whatever works for everybody. I can make myself available. Earlier is a little rough for me, but I'm sure we can figure something out. Later is rough for you, Gavin? No, earlier is rough for me. Oh, earlier is rough. Yeah, good. Okay. So yeah, but later would... For me later is easier, because once everybody is sleeping, it just is easier to go back on the computer. This is normally my working time when the children are sleeping, then I'm already working hard. So this would be better for me too. Okay. So Oleg, would you like me to send out a survey? I know you had done the last doodle poll. I'm happy to do this doodle poll if you'd like, or you can do it. Feel free to do that. Okay. Do we want to do a lazy consensus that two hours later than this time is agreeable, at least with everybody here? And the doodle can still be sent out, but we could just have a lazy consensus. Yeah, for me. This later works very well for me. Oleg, how is two hours later for you? Is that harsh on you? No. Okay, so I love lazy consensus. I'll send the doodle poll proposing two hours later amongst a few other options. Beautiful. Thank you. Do we have a list of major donators or contributors anywhere on the website? Yes, yes. Company contributors or sponsors? I guess sponsors is probably more accurate of what I'm thinking of. When you say sponsors, are you? Oh, go ahead. So we're just wondering sponsors in terms of your price, sponsors in terms of everything on the organization. It was something that came up on the board, mailing lists earlier. And I was just thinking about when people do donate what we do for them. And I was wondering if there's a list of, you know, like some, like if you do like a patron or something, some people have like a little icon at the bottom of their page that says these are all the donators. So currently we have it on the community bridge. So I mean, we should automatically list all donors. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Examples here, sponsor and categorization, Linux foundation, as you can see in this course, Thrive Tech and Jenkins project. It's what we so funded from SPI. And yeah, of course we can add more there. Also there are individual contributors, but yeah, I wouldn't say that it's so visible on this site. Yeah. Because I was thinking about, you know, like this donations is always a good way to get people to be like, you want some marketing to people who use the product, you know, having Jenkins.io sponsors with a list of all the people that sponsor in whatever way they sponsor it could be in for it could be other things, you know, and then people would be able to be like, Oh, look, they're friends of Jenkins. We should give them more money because Jenkins is awesome. Well, to be honest, I'm a bit concerned about it because the most precious thing people can donate is a big time. Yes. It's not money. Yes, I agree. But yeah, but yeah, but at the same time, money means you can rent services. So for instance, we mentioned discourse, discourse, if we don't want to maintain it by yourself, you could have the money to spend there. Yeah. So time and people are always good, but money is also really good. It's better than nothing. Nothing is really bad. Well, nothing is an option because it's open source. Yes. It's free and available to anyone. Yeah. But yeah, I was just thinking out loud for that. So it's all good. So let's definitely keep it in mind. And if you want to propose a new page, just do that. Yeah. If I recall correctly, Olivier had the idea about the work and infrastructure on such a so that we would have at least these small details. I open an issue on Jenkins.io on the GitHub issues for Jenkins.io on GitHub history. Yeah, it was just like we have quite a lot of infrastructure sponsors and it's easier when we can say if you sponsor the projects, how we can put your logo here. And in fact, we have a lot of sponsors in that. Yeah. I think that would be nice to highlight their contribution. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah, it's not something I'm going to get to anytime soon, but I'd like to see that as well. Okay. So any improvements? How much appreciate it? I need to run because I got another meeting to go to. Yeah, we have other time. Okay. So then thanks everyone. And yeah, thanks for your ideas. Let's keep working. Thanks. Have a good rest of your day. Peace. Bye.


All right. You ready? I guess so. Here we go. This is Siri. The Daily Tech News Show by Tom Merritt is brought to you by all of the supporters at Patreon. If you also want to support Tom, go to patreon.com slash ace detect. That is patreon.com slash ac, ed, tect. And thanks as always for listening to The Daily Tech News Show. This is The Daily Tech News for today, which happens to be Thursday, June 4th, 2015. I'm Tom Merritt, joining me today, Mr. Justin Robert Young, podcaster and DTNS contributor Extra Ordinaire. Not just Ordinaire. No, yeah. You might expect a certain level of Ordinaire. Sure. I'll give you extra. It goes the extra flavor for that extra long something. Hey, we're going to comb over this rumor that's been flitting around thanks to the Wall Street Journal. The Dish and T-Mobile USA are in merger talks. It's got the business world buzzing. It's got the media world buzzing. It's got the tech world buzzing. So we will tell you the details here in the headlines and then talk about it in a bit. Play that headline music. Wall Street Journal reports people familiar with the matter say Dish and T-Mobile USA have in high-level talks about a merger. The two companies agree on the form the combined entity would take. Dish is Charlie Ergen, would-be chairman. T-Mobile's John Legere is supposedly going to be CEO. That's the allegation from the people familiar with the matter. The thing the two sides have not agreed about yet is money, and that always the way. Dish owns a lot of unused mobile spectrum and every self-respecting wireless carrier in the U.S. dreams of marrying a video distributor someday. Except for that jerk, Verizon, who went and just bought EnQ from Intel third bank, Gold Digger. You know, just like the bully in the high school movie, Verizon, just having its way. You're with me, EnQ. EnQ never loved you, Verizon. Set the timer on your smartphone, people. Apple will begin selling some models of the Apple Watch in retail stores beginning in two weeks, according to TechCrunch. The watches will also go on sale in seven more countries on June 26, including Italy, Mexico, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Taiwan, and... Switzerland! The very backyard of so many fancy watchmakers. You ordered an Apple Watch online in May. You should get it within two weeks, unless it's the 42 millimeter space black stainless steel model, which has been the slowest to reach customers. Make you feel any better, Justin, about the delay on your own watch? Um... Yes, I mean, I guess now that I have it, right, like, I feel like all of that rage has subsided, and I'm now very, very happy with it. And I am now looking at this news as some kind of bellwether on where the install base is, and therefore where the app community is. That's all... I see this and WWDC coming up, and all I look at is, yay! A lot of people are buying it, which means people will want to make cool things that are very specifically tailored to work. Venture Beat reports that Yahoo announced several product closures, including Yahoo Pipes. There was a time when most of the podcasts I did ran through Yahoo Pipes. GeoPlanet's gonna close down to Place, Spotter, and even Yahoo Maps, although some maps functionality used by search and products like Flickr will be kept running. Several international media properties will close down too, including Yahoo Music in France and Canada, the entire Yahoo homepage in the Philippines. Yahoo is also killing support for Yahoo Mail on older iOS devices. And let me see here, it looks like we have a pro tip from our producer, Jenny, if you work on any of these teams and your boss wants to meet you in a conference room, start grabbing kind bars from the kitchen. I remember, back in the mid-auts as podcasting was just getting its footing and looking at Yahoo Pipes as a distribution solution and realizing that something that was a bit behind the scenes, you had to be a little nerdy to really take advantage of it, was a tremendous litmus test of what people wanted to really look at on the internet in private. Because the most popular listed pipes were things that were by and large certain elements of pornography that you would not necessarily like to advertise to certain members of your family and friends. Yeah, well it was the forerunner of if, this, then that. I guess what you're saying it was if, this, then whoa. Then, shh. So you're, so World of Warcraft over Space Invaders, I'm not sure how I feel about that. I, you want to know what? I look at this and of course let's, let's preface this. All Hall of Fames are invented for two reasons to recognize people who did great work in the field and primarily to generate interest, which is usually shorthand for argument. So there will always be argument about every Hall of Fame and the video game Hall of Fame will be no different. I kind of feel like all of these kind of could have been their own headline inductee. I don't know why you had to, I mean, Pong, Pac-Man, Super Mario Brothers, and Tetris. Certainly, you kind of feel like could be, you know, a headline inductee in their own year, right? I think it's interesting, especially to go in over Wolfenstein, which was, to me, the first big, you know, first person shooter that kind of, I, you know, define that genre. Doom was certainly, I guess, more popular. World of Warcraft also, it's like, I don't know. It just seems weird. No Eve online, no Sonic, no Zelda. You could go all day arguing about this. I feel like what they were trying to do is pick the pinnacle property in its genre slash period of time. They're listed here in order. Pong, then Pac-Man. And you know why it's not Zelda? Because Super Mario Brothers was just that much more popular than Legend of Zelda at that era. Then Tetris is like, it launched its own kind of category. Doom, like you said, was the popularizer of that franchise. And World of Warcraft, same thing as Doom, right? Not the first, but definitely the most successful. So does World of Warcraft get the RPG slot? Because that would be the one thing. The MMO RPG slot, for sure, yeah. Yeah, right now, but there is no, there's no fighting. Yeah, you're right. There's no strategy games in here. Hello, SimCity. Civilization, what up? So yeah, let's drive on up to Rochester. Grab yourself a garbage plate and yell at the Strong Museum advisory committee. Facebook is rolling out a new Android app that's designed to use less data and run faster for folks with spotty data connections, according to Reuters. Facebook Lite uses less than half a megabyte of data and supports Facebook's news feed, status updates, notifications, and photos. It does not support things like videos or advanced location services. Facebook Lite is available in select Asian countries and will soon be made available in parts of Latin America, Africa, and Europe. Facebook, oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, Facebook also died. I did that to myself. Facebook also turned off constant mapping right before the show, which is why I forgot to read this part. In Facebook Messenger in anticipation of rolling out new features like one-time locations sharing with friends through Messenger. So I'm actually more enthralled with Facebook Lite than the fact that they turned off the location thing in Messenger. I'm almost curious on whether or not this continues the fracture nature of where Facebook is going app-wise to continue to just break out very little segments of what they do, not only in terms of the apps that they purchase and kind of fold in, but in the messengerization, like what if there is just the timeline app and it really has nothing else but just a quick glance to your timeline. That's an interesting thought. I mean, the motivation for Facebook Lite is definitely markets where you only got 2G or you've got really expensive data and people are very sensitive to using a lot of data, but that doesn't mean they won't look at this and come up with ideas for other spin-off apps because they do seem to be looking for standalone apps. And when you look at a messaging platform like Line, which we'll talk about here in a little bit, coming up with other successful apps on the platform is a successful strategy so far. Well, and it always seems odd to me whenever things are branded as less than another thing. Like Facebook Lite seems weird to me whereas Facebook Timeline seems like, oh, here's a solution for a problem I have. But that's market-specific. Facebook Lite is going to play really well in parts of Asia, Latin America, Africa. Oh, I guess if the product isn't necessarily it, it's just a matter of how we are to understand it and hey, listen, it's their business. Here is something amazing and Tom and I got into a big conversation before the show about how rad this platform has become. All right, I'm going to pitch this here to you. What do you do when you want to have a nice conversation between just you and 200 of your closest friends? Install Line's new Android app. Hopcorn Buzz, that's what you do. As the next web tells it, it lets you use your Line messaging account to send out a link through email, text, or social network. And any of your Line contacts can join in and talk. Voice only for now, but Line says it's working on group video chat, interconnectivity with Line groups, and of course, an iOS version. Yeah, so, I mean, and this isn't the only Line app that's independent of the Line messaging app. They've got all kinds of music and shopping and payments, etc. If this could handle, it's not going to handle 200 video chatting people at once, but if it can handle some kind of video chat as well, I think they've got a Viber competitor, even a Skype competitor here, for sure. What's crazy interesting about this is that Line and messaging in general has become really, really, really, really experimental and interesting. The messaging as a platform has been remarkable, and because I always obsess about these things, I kind of feel like this is one of those that tech press needs to look back and apologize to a lot of these apps, because the knock on them was, well, how are you going to make money? A lot of these are either free or they don't cost much to use, and the only way you're going to make cash is by selling crazy stickers. And so beyond advertising in the way that we understand display advertising and add-on sticker stuff, really, I don't think people saw the big, bright, eclectic future that we are experiencing right now as short as like three years ago. It's remarkable. People earlier this year were making sticker jokes about Line still. It's just not quite understanding how successful the platform has been, and that it's a platform, as you rightly said. BizTechAfrica reports Zimbabwe's Dr. Lloyd Muzangwa and Tanzanian engineer George Kahabuka took home the mid-stage prize in the Standard Bank Water for Africa Challenge for their MAJI 1200 water purification system. The mid-stage prize is given to systems ready for deployment. They've tested it, it's ready to go. The MAJI 1200 combines UV light with solar energy to make water purification available not only off the grid, but with minimal maintenance. You've got to change the bulb every once in a while and swap out the filter every once in a while. That's it. Team will use its $5,000 prize money to build and donate MAJI 1200 units to schools in rural Zimbabwe, and they've got a crowdfunding project up and ready to go at GoFundMe.com. This is definitely one of those, a little bit can go a long way. If they're going to be doing a lot with a $5,000 prize purse, you can imagine what something that could catch wind in a crowdfunding sense could do. If you're operating a water system in rural Zimbabwe and you can spend less than a few thousand dollars to just have everything purified and not even add to your power bill, that's huge. Tom, I'm going to ask you to please ready the sounder for this next story. Yes, sir. Okay. Male or female? Let's go male. Okay. All right. New data from IDC shows Xiaomi has risen to the world's second biggest seller of wearables just behind Fitbit. TechCrunch reports that Xiaomi came in with 2.8 million shipments for Q1 2015 at 24.6% of the market, ahead of Garmin, 6.1%, Samsung's 5.1%, and Jawbone's 4.4%. Fitbit still leads the pack at 3.9 million shipments, giving it a 34.2% market share. The data, very tellingly, does not include the Apple Watch, which just started shipping in April and will probably rock the boat just a little bit. This takes me back. It takes me back to the mid-2000s when we started seeing IDC breakout smartphones, pre-iPhone, by the way, from their phone selling data, to see like IDC starting to make some hay, get some attention around its wearables market share lists. Not that this is the first one they've ever put out, but people are starting to pay attention, especially when you see names like Xiaomi jumping into the top of the list. Fitbit's been dominating this. That's probably why you haven't seen a lot of headlines around this, because it's sort of like, well, yeah, Fitbit's up there, Jawbone's up there. It's what you would expect. We're starting to see some volatility. When that next list comes out and it shows the market share of Apple Watch, whether it's good or bad, everybody's going to pay attention. Certainly so. At the end of the day, we really are doing a very 2005 show. I feel like we're going back into time. And I think it's about time we get out of a wreck. Yeah. Wait, wait. Actually, in that case, it might be the opposite, depending who you ask. Verge reports that Nest will hold an event on Wednesday, June 17th, which would be its first substantial smart home product announcement since Google bought Nest. TechCrunch previously reported Nest might be moving into audio. A lot of people think maybe it's some kind of wearable Google Glass derivative. Those people are probably crazy, but, you know, Nest means the whole home. Justin, what do you expect? I expect something that is clean and focused. And I feel like that to me is the litmus test for where Nest has gone since their acquisition by Google. Because I certainly hope that that remains what is their selling point. Because that, you know, everything that they've done previous to that had always had a very clean, smart, industrial design to it. Let's take a look at the top two stories from our subreddit. We pay attention to that subreddit for all the stories we pick. DailyTechNewShow.Reddit.com. Griff72 submitted the top one. Yahoo Tech's Rafe Needleman reported that the updated Pebble app for Pebble Time is still delayed even though people are getting their Pebble Time watches in Apple's App Store. Pebble got approval in the App Store on May 18, but then found a minor bug which they fixed and resubmitted within a couple days, four days. They resubmitted on May 22, and even with that minor change, a previously approved app is waiting in review. The updated Android app, however, is available in Google Play. And Habituala Condolce submitted the Engadged article noting a New York Times report that the U.S. Justice Department issued two memos to the NSA in 2012, allowing the NSA to search U.S. citizens' international data traffic without a warrant in order to find foreign hackers or malware. The memos allowed tracking of IP addresses and cyber signatures that could be tied to foreign governments. The memos were obtained in documents provided by a little fellow you might know by the name of Edward Snowden. That's small. He's a normal-sized guy. No, he's actually a tall dude. I'm sorry. My apologies to Eddie. Yeah, to Eddie. You can call him Eddie if you want. Yeah, this is on the heels of the Passage of the Freedom Act in the United States, which is a somewhat more restricted version of Section 215 of the Patriot Act. And I think it still amazes me that we are continuing to pull what are relevant revelations out of the Stoden documents years later. It's years later now. Can you believe that? Yeah. Let's get into our discussion story because that's the headlines. Dish and Team Mobile, folks. Gonna get together. Charlie Ergen. You probably don't hear about him as much as John Leger. But Ergen, behind the scenes, is just as much of a maverick. Leger is just cursey. He doesn't drop a mixtape on stage with four-letter words whenever he gets up and does a talk or a product launch. But you got two rogue coming from behind companies here. Dish is the number two satellite maker, which makes it low on the video, bundled video providing role here in the United States. Team Mobile USA number four, but getting very close to catching Sprint for number three. They make a great match, Justin, in lots of ways. Team Mobile's big ding is they don't have quite the coverage. And even in places where they do have coverage, they don't have it in the more desirable 700 megahertz spectrum. So, in fact, Sprint has more coverage than AT&T or Verizon. Spectrum-wise, it's just that AT&T and Verizon own more valuable spectrum than Sprint does. Dish owns a lot of that valuable spectrum. They own a ton of low-band 700 megahertz spectrum. That's the easy-to-use spectrum. It easily goes through walls. And Team Mobile could make great use of that because Dish hasn't done anything with it. The rumor has been Dish wants to rule out their own service and they haven't. On the other side, every carrier wants to have a video provider. Verizon bought EnQ from Intel, which all indications say is going to end up being some kind of mobile video service. AT&T is about to get approval to buy direct TV. So it makes sense that, hey, Team Mobile wants to get into that game too. I don't see, I mean, is there a downside to this, Justin? For consumers, it doesn't immediately appear so. These are two of the very, you know, probably top of the list in all industries of kind of consumer-friendly, very disruptive in the kind of deals that they want to make and products and services that they want to offer. They are very consumer-focused. It would seem that they are a match made in heaven. The big question is exactly how does this work? So to understand that more, and I didn't, and Tom, you don't know about this, but I emailed a source, a source, and I'm working the beat here, Tom. Nice. This is somebody who works at one of the major mobile telecoms, not Team Mobile. I asked him for his opinion on basically where Team Mobile is in terms of spectrum and what the dish spectrum could help them with. He, you know, very much says this could be a game changer specifically for data that if they are looking, and that's really what you're looking for, especially if you are looking to push more and more video content, that that's where not only Team Mobile will be able to bolster their service, but more specifically what they rely on right now is high speeds because they don't have a ton of people on their network. The new dish spectrum that they would get if they merged would help them continue to sustain their speeds and not hit big, you know, products, dampening choke points, which would happen if they continue the growth that they've seen. So explain that again then. What this means is that Team Mobile gets an advantage on AT&T and Verizon then. It certainly creates a pathway for them to continue to challenge them in the markets that they already have good speed. That if they continue to grow at the level they were at now, you would see those speeds go down. The product would get worse. A capacity problem. At capacity because that's ultimately whatever we really complain about AT&T and Verizon is not necessarily that they are not making available tremendous wonders to get that kind of data to you. It is very often the engineering problem to figure out how you do that in bigger cities that continue to raise the bar in terms of how much data you get. And that's a problem that Team Mobile has not yet seen, but could have been a problem if this dish merger does not go through, which is why they've looked to merge with Sprint in the past. Well, and they still might face that problem if this, you know, I mean, we know how long mergers take to, first of all, get formalized. Apparently the money's the issue here, right? Everybody's willing to play along with each other, but it could take a while. It may never happen. At which point that is an interesting thing to know as a Team Mobile subscriber in any case because even if this does happen, then it has to go through regulatory approval. Team Mobile may start hitting that capacity issue before it would go through. So one other thing that this, my source points out, is that Dish has the high bid for a ton of AWS 3-spectrum at the most recent auction. Oh, yeah. That's obviously done before these merger talks have been made public. The winners have not been announced and the high bid does not necessarily mean the winner. Part of what makes them a very attractive candidate for getting a lot of this spectrum is because the idea is to reward the small fry. If they are not looked at as the small fry anymore, it might affect their bid for even more of this spectrum which could help bolster a combined problem. Well, and their bid at the last auction is being challenged because they applied for small operator discounts and Verizon and AT&T complained that they're not doing anything with the spectrum that they own. They shouldn't get any discounts. The discounts are meant to encourage small operators to be able to expand and Dish can't claim it's a small operator wanting to expand if it's never done anything with its spectrum. So they're kind of under attack from that end and if they got Team Mobile, they would be under attack from no longer the end of not using the spectrum, but the end of being they're definitely not a small operator when they own the number four operator in the United States. And here's the big one. The 800 pound gorilla is the 600 megahertz spectrum auction that goes next year on the block which both Team Mobile and Dish were very expected to be players in. What does that mean for the bidding in terms if they are a single entity at that point? Not only in how they are looked at by the people awarding the spectrum, but also what are their cash availability after the expensive process of merging? Does it make them more or less likely to win that big 600 spectrum next year? Yeah, that's the white space spectrum that's being reclaimed from TV. That's incredibly valuable because you know it works. Television's been working for a long time and it's incredibly desirable. I still go back to that question of like, could they even get this kind of merger done in time for that auction, which muddies that question you're bringing up even more. Yeah. If they've got a merger under regulatory approval at the same time that the same agency that's contributing to the regulatory approval is conducting an auction at which they might want to try to get a discount because they're two different companies, that's just going to complicate the bid process. Not to mention the fact that the other people in that battle that wants to see those waters muddy as possible and a dish and T-Mobile with as many hands tied behind their back as possible have a lot of lobbying money in Washington and can continue to make sure that every I and T is crossed on that merger going forward. All right, but let's go to the other side of this because what T-Mobile gets is that spectrum advantage and even if they have problems with the auctions, dish does own a lot of spectrum already, so that's going to help. T-Mobile gets video. And as I mentioned, AT&T wants direct TV. Verizon's got OnQ. This has become a matter of faith now that if you're a mobile carrier, you need to get into video somehow and mostly because of the advertising that you can sell on it. OnQ was built, was conceived as more of a console in your home, but Verizon seems to be pitching it as a mobile service, which might still have a console element. It's very unclear. We're all working on second-hand information. Verizon hasn't announced anything yet, so we'll see what they do announce, but it does seem like it's coming out of the wireless side, not the FIO side. That said, we definitely know AT&T wants to get direct TV and here's why Adobe put out a report about TV everywhere or authenticated TV. So this is where you've got a subscription, say, with a direct TV or dish and then you log in on your mobile device to get video from one of the channels. Like you log into the Fox Now app, for instance. Adobe found that there were half a trillion page visits, 200 billion video starts and 2.8 billion TV authentications for these kinds of property. Authenticated TV grew 300% year over year and here's the kicker, 62% of it was on Apple devices. 30% on the iPad, 18% on iPhones, 17% on Android, and Apple TV is rising. They doubled their share to 10% passing Roku. Roku, back there in the back, in fact, boxes overall combined make up 24%. That includes not only Apple TV Roku, but things like the Xbox, Android TVs, etc. That's a big jump. They jump from 6% to 24%, so the boxes are a rising category, but right now mobile dominates, PCs only 7%, Macs only 3%, smart TVs, forget about it, 2%. There you go. That's what they are looking at at these carriers saying, folks, we need to get in on this television business somehow and insert ourselves in that TV everywhere process and take a cut. That case makes perfect sense. Not to mention the fact that as people talk less and less on phones and use the idea of voice minutes and stuff like that become less and less relevant and data becomes more and more, video eats up a lot of data. Like you mentioned, you can double dip and sell advertising on top of it. It seems to be a reasonable next lily pad for these gigantic behemoths to start to push money and resources toward while one element recedes. This would be gigantic, especially considering how forward thinking dish and T-Mobile have both been. You could imagine that if they are a combined underdog against other behemoths that the idea of very competitive pricing, consumer friendly models for switching and what dish has made a name for recently of being the first one to really come out with a, hey, look, here's all of your cable that you would normally get, or a vast majority of it, over the air. It seems like a match made in heaven or at least something that would fundamentally reshape where this new world would go otherwise. And don't forget that dish owns not only Sling Box but Sling TV. Hold your net neutrality gasps until the end of this sentence, but what if T-Mobile did for television what it's doing for music and had a pre-installed Sling TV app on all of its mobile devices that it supported? That's going to be the new battle and that's where we are going to see, obviously Apple has a tremendous advantage in terms of how people are watching it, but if you're T-Mobile and you can offer, hey, get a device with us, and now all of a sudden, the idea of getting a tablet through T-Mobile or something seems like more of an interesting idea because it's your television. I mean, man, that seems pretty good. And then there's the idea that Apple finally gets their television service off the ground, which by all accounts, it's not going to happen at WWDC, but T-Mobile has been working closely with Apple on things. If this merger went through, would that help or would that hurt it? A lot of the Scuttlebutt reading is that the biggest downside to any kind of merger like this is a lot of other companies simply don't like working with Charlie Urgan. So is that going to be a negative or will John Legere be able to continue to strike deals and actually improve things for Dish in that respect? Who knows? I'm not saying Urgan's a bad guy at all. I'm just seeing people speculating on that. Yeah, whenever this stuff happens, and this is the other element that I always get obsessed with, where did this story come from? Who is talking to people within the knowledge of these talks that has that level of detail? This looks to me like something that was put out by some people close to this negotiation that wants to float it as a trial balloon, not only for regulatory purposes, but also to kind of, I think, garner some good press. Because I think these are two companies that people think fondly of and would like to see do better, especially considering that their competitors are AT&T, Verizon, and the like, which people do not necessarily have very fond feelings of at all. All right, let's get on to our pick of the day Tuesday on episode 2506. We talked about the Pinterest buy button. Patrick Bezos suggested that someone finding a recipe on Pinterest maybe in the future could use the button to add all the ingredients in the recipe to a shopping list. Well, Paul, a.k.a. Hot Branch, is enjoying Junuary in Montreal, apparently, where Mother Nature is offering meds. Had a suggestion for an app that does just what Patrick was asking. Asparagus My Recipes from asparagusapp.net. It's available on Android. You can pull down ingredients lists from web pages and categorize them for you. The paid version extends the ability of the free version, including the ability to scale a recipe up or down. You want to make just one serving, five servings, et cetera. Paul says, now when I find a recipe online that interests me, I share it to Asparagus, and voila, it's on my phone and tablet. That is great. I need to see whether or not. I was using an app called Big Oven, which swore it did this and it didn't do it very well. So I'm going to check out Asparagus and see if it does it better because that's kind of amazing. Send your picks to feedback at DailyTechNewShow.com. You can find my picks at DailyTechNewShow.com. And if I haven't removed Big Oven, well, now you know. Our message of the day sent to feedback at DailyTechNewShow.com. You can send your messages there, too, is from Joe. Joe just bought an Amazon Echo. Well, Justin, maybe you should read this. She arrived two weeks ago, and I must say I'm in tech love. She's extremely responsive to my voice. I most commonly ask her the time, whether to set alarms or play music playlists. I sometimes ask her to tell me a joke of her other words of encouragement or empathy. She sounds really sincere, especially like lying in bed and having her read me the tech newscast for the day. The only thing I would have liked to see is the ability for her to recognize that I'm speaking to her without having to call her out. Call her name before each command. It looks like Jibo can do this, but he is nearly $700 more. So I think I'll stick with my girl Alexa. Well, at least until we have a fight and break up. But for now, she's the one for me. She's Joe. I'm sorry. I just understand that. Yeah, Joe likes his Amazon Echo. And frankly, it's the best written review of the Echo that we've got yet. Apologies to anybody else who said good reviews. You guys were great, but I wasn't sure if this was acceptable for the show to be honest. Dude, it got a little hot and heavy, man. I feel like people are going to be pulling over their cars. Listen to this. It got real in a major way. Thank you, Joe, for sending that. And thank you, Justin, Robert Young. Always a pleasure, my friend. Indeed. Indeed. It is. It's always great to be here, especially on big fun news days like this.  This was good. This was good stuff today. Of course, just a programming note. I will be here Friday. Of course, Monday, WWDC. I am off and the patrons know this. I'm off shooting in Seattle for another project Tuesday through Friday. But y'all are going to be in good hands. We've got a great schedule lined up for you. And then I'll be back the Monday after that. Justin, Robert Young, you'll be in with me for the WWDC coverage on Monday. I can't wait for that. Yeah. No, this is going to be really, really, really, really cool. And it's, it's, you know, I'm, I'm actually, I think hopefully they launch music that day. It's got to be right. I'm, I am itching itching to get rid of my audio subscription. And go whole hog into whatever they would like to offer. And if I don't like that, then I'm going to Spotify. I'm on my free month of Google Music All Access. Times of Waston, Apple. If you want to try to win me back. I followed Justin Robert Young on the Twitters, twitter.com slash Justin R Young. And of course, one of his many other projects. Which one you want to tell folks about? Let's talk about in the most family friendly terms, the jury show. It's a one mic show in which I talk about whatever I'd like. If you like some stuff that's a little bit more silly, a little bit more contemplative, then you will probably like that program. However, we hit a milestone on the Patreon for that. And the reward was that I would do an interview show. So now it is not a four episodes a month podcast. It is a five episodes a month podcast. And we did the first one yesterday. It is with somebody by the name of Doxy. She is an ingenious woman. Not only a blacksmith, but also a hardware manufacturer and a cam girl. And the next for which you that she she melds all of those things. I think. Well, she's a blacksmith. She should be able to meld things. Oh, she certainly does. She is a solder. She is a welder. No, it's, I thought it was very, very fascinating. If you, you know, it's, it's not necessarily salacious or anything. It's, it's, it's more, you know, Charlie Rose than Howard Stern in terms of the, the sex of it. But if you have ever been interested in, you know, how much people make and also how to make an Arduino based. Oh man. I don't know. I don't. Something Arduino based. An Arduino based thing that you might imagine a cam girl would use. You know, then, then go ahead and check it out. Jury. That is a jury talks.com free for everybody. But if you'd like to support it, it's patreon.com slash J U R Y. Thank you patrons for supporting so many different projects out there. Not just juries, but FSL tonight. This weekend science, which I'm a patron of T to T to just make so many things possible that were not possible before. And we appreciate patreon. We appreciate our patrons and the 5051 people supporting us there. And if you don't support us there, that's fine. 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The global pandemic of obesity and type 2 diabetes was one of the challenges addressed at the 20th International Congress of Nutrition recently held in Grenada. Experts agreed on the complexity of the environmental determinants impacting this illness. When we consider environmental determinants of obesity of course spontaneously we talk about sedentary and also a suboptimal macronutrient composition of the diet. Too much fat, too much sugar, high density, high calorie density of the diet. But our recent experience reveals that there is something else, something related to inadequate sleeping habits and also an impact of non-caloric factors including insufficient calcium intake, insufficient dairy intake. So a high dairy consumption could at least be neutral and some thought beneficial in obese patients with type 2 diabetes. There is a growing literature indicating that in low-calcium consumers obese individuals being subjected to a weight reducing program dairy products might accentuate the benefits of a weight reducing program. Of course dairy foods have a benefit because of their calcium content but when we consider energy balance the risk towards obesity dairy proteins also offer a significant contribution. And the conference heard that recently dairy products have been shown to improve body mass and type 2 diabetes. We have now also today quite a few randomized trials that have looked at this issue and mainly looked at risk factors and we can see that the high content of dairy products actually produce a slight reduction in body fat but also seem to improve insulin sensitivity and also give some beneficial changes in risk factors of cardiovascular disease. And this explains why international guidelines are positive about cheese and yogurt. There are many food based dietary guidelines around the world and the vast majority of those have something to say about dairy products and generally they would have either some quantitative guidelines or they would say that it is recommended that you consume so many servings a day or more. Now interestingly within that there are also a large number of countries about two-thirds of those that we surveyed who have specific recommendations about yogurt or other fermented milk products and there the guidelines are always positive it's always in the direction of trying to consume more milk in the form of low fat dairy produce in the form of yogurts or other fermented produce.


So people the news of Shadowkeep being postponed has just broke like wow. How's it going guys my name's DP Jen I'd like to thank you for stopping by and checking out my video if you do enjoy it leaving a like really helps out and if you are new around to and enjoy daily destiny videos be sure to subscribe. So I follow obviously Bungie, Luke, Smith, Diage, all of those guys on Twitter and Luke Smith literally 15 minutes ago from me making this video Tweet out a statement stating that Shadowkeep the next major expansion for Destiny 2 has been postponed with a link to Bungie.net where they state the following, Hey everyone as we get closer and closer to serving up Shadowkeep a new light it has become increasingly clear to us that our releases for this fall would benefit from a bit more time in the oven. Being dependent means the future of Destiny 2 is entirely on our team it also means that we're agile enough to choose to do what's best for the game and our players even if it's the hard choice. We wanted to let you our community know first that will be changed in the day for Shadowkeep and new light from September 17th to October 1st. This fall is the first step on our journey for what our team wants Destiny 2 to become a place for you and your friends to play anytime anywhere owning the action MMO and RPG elements that we love about the game and crushing barriers to entry for friends. We just need a bit of extra time to take the first step. We didn't make this decision lightly we know for some of you us too Destiny releases are events where you take time off of work or develop a sudden sickness that keeps you from school or work we get it a bunch of our team take some time off to go on their own Destiny Jackie quest we're so for screwing up your plans and we wanted to share this information as quickly as we could here's some more date house cleaning the world first for the new raid Garden of Salvation will begin on Saturday October 5th it's a weekend raid race and contests will be active we'll extend in moments of triumph through September 17th where you'll have three more weeks to complete this year's challenges and unlock all of the in-game and bunch of rewards we're going to run an additional iron banner the week of September 17th as well that's actually pretty cool to me people in my house should have another chance of getting the swarm of the raven trust save will come online later this summer so you'll have time to sort out your friends list ahead of shadow keep more to come next week thanks for playing and we'll see you soon Luke and Mark so there we have it people shadow keepers being postponed now the way I feel about this news is I mean hey better them actually sort out the issues they are having then serve us up something that is undercooked as they say they need a bit more time in the oven and the fact they are not tired in with Activision now allows them to actually do this kind of thing if there's a problem with the game and they don't want to release it early they can actually take more time and make it perfect which is what I'm hoping shadow keep will be but yeah I just wanted to make this quick video for you guys just announcing this latest news that shadow keep will be postponed until October 1st which to be honest isn't too much of a get from September 17th or is it just a few more weeks so it isn't too bad but let me know what you think about this down below within that comments section and I don't know we have come to the end guys if you enjoyed the video leaving a like really helps out if you're new around here and enjoy daily destiny videos be sure to subscribe and if you never want to miss a video I'll be able to turn notifications on by hitting that bell bottom of guys thanks as always for stopping by hopefully you enjoyed the video and hopefully I will see you on that next one