And I'm going to give you a big, big, big welcome to more of a nice, big number of 37. I think this is a lot. We do have, like, a short sentence. If you love what you see here, please tell us at this link if you want to see something a little bit different next year. Please also tell us that stuff. I think that, after you finish the survey, they're apparently using geological sugars. Does he know good? So, just a quick review of that or something. I'll give you something better for you next year. So, my name is Rick Garnesky. I'm a co-boss at Permanente Space. My co-boss, Rebecca Collins, is off. She's out in New York celebrating the holidays. So instead, we have Herbie, as guests can see. She's probably back there with Dr. Samar. You'll see her in the next two talks. But first, I'm going to talk to you about the night missions. So, my name is Joe Sines, so I have a very soft spot for walks. When I was a kid, I was going to get a giant rock collection. And I basically love just asking, what is this? Like, I picked up something off the ground. It's super interesting. What is it? So, sometimes I like to tell you a little bit about some tangential topic to what this speaker is saying. This time, I'm not going to do that. Because I also like Frago Rock. This show is on HBO, right? Yeah, right? The Frago Rock mansion was amazing. I was pretty horrified. First of all, does anyone know who these two characters are? So, in French, you did not have the inventor. You had a chef, a baker, and another dog. So the chef was still named Doc for whatever reason. Does anyone know what the dog was named? And if you do, I'll give you a picture or something. So the dog's name was Croquet. So, Croquet. I was also sort of delighted to find out that the guy who played Doc went on to play another character named Doc, and who Doc's name is, and played to imagine this character. But really, the only reason at all I'm talking about the Frago Rock is so I do a lot of my favorite Christmas gifts this year. I'm using it to introduce the next speaker. So, here, take a look at that. Christmas here, in a nice and dirty way. The first town's got all these languages being spoken here and so many different people from different nations. I'm here to tell you today that Oakland is also a very diverse way underneath the surface, way deep down in the rocks. And my thesis tonight is going to be to tell you that Oakland is the most without diverse city in the United States of America, possibly the Western Hemisphere. So, you're all familiar with Oakland as she exists on the street. Underneath, it's a very different, very colorful place. But each one of those pieces of color is a different kind of rock and also similar in some places. A very new Christmas laser point. For instance, this is where deep mud is. And, let's go forward. So, turned on the side so you can see it better. This is the city boundaries. And this is the east of Oakland. And this large horizontal feature is able to fall and this is a Hayward Fault. The Hayward Fault is going to knock us all down some day and we'll all get up and start over again. But we have the Hayward Fault to thank because one earthquake at a time brought all of this material north to sit next to the material in the hills. And that has made Oakland twice as little diverse. So, I like to talk about the Hayward Fault. It's kind of scary, but it's a fascinating thing. And we owe our character to the Hayward Fault. But we're not going to talk about the Fault anymore. We're going to talk about rocks. But maybe you saw this in school. I'm not going to go into detail. Rocks have a life cycle. They start. They start. I mean, three hands here. You can't say rocks start anywhere. They're always in the process of going through the cycle. In class, they tell you that you can start down underneath as molten rock and they solidify as igneous rocks. And then the upper world, the weather and the wind, when the rain turns into sand and then they eventually change a different kind of rock between the tree and the wood. And when they're buried deeply, they turn into monomorphic rocks. Eventually, it gets so hot and nasty down there, they turn back to the background together. And it's a beautiful little diagram. That's a good one. Let's try this one. Okay. It's a very simple one. Rocks are matter of the earth. They're just stuff that the earth is made of. It's not a round cycle.  They're circulating between the hot pool of magma and the cold pools. And in between, they have these three different kinds of two different classifications of rocks. And when we learn about geology, the less it means matter. It's just raw material in the earth that transforms between these different things. So, anyway, we're going to start. We can mention, anyway, we're going to start with igneous rocks. In igneous rocks, they start out in a molten state. They're made from nuts. And the kind of thing you might make on a kitchen stove. They crystallize into different minerals. And the faster they crystallize, the smaller the particles are. So, we have two different kinds of... Two different kinds of igneous rocks. There's the so-called adhesive ones that actually rub in volcanoes. And then there's the intrusive and plutonic ones that never get you to rub it. It's kind of brown and it's very, very slow. We're going to start from the top, from the volcanic ones, and move down to the plutonic ones. This is up on prison people. It's an ash pit. It's a bit of volcanic ash that rubbed about 10 million years ago. And this is what the rock can set close up. This will be the first and one of our types. We're going to go through them fast. There are about 20 different prototypes that are about to go there, which is pretty obvious. This one is called CHUF. It's basically volcanic ash that's been lithified. You look at it, it doesn't look like it. I'm not going to talk about it much. But if you know where it is, it's cool to find it. Another volcanic rock we have is urinalite. This is a really big glories' garden next to 5 million building where the town lives in. This is what they mined there. They mined this rock out there. And actually, the real job is called quartz clarifier. But it's... Rhinolite is very ancient. You can see it all over town. There's some, you know, to somebody's garden. From there, you know, there are glories. And I think you get to like it. This is probably a honey color with kind of reddish changes. And we'll want to talk more about that with reddish changes. We also have basalt. Basalt is real lava. Oakland has lava. Oakland had a volcano here about 10 million years ago. But on round job. Round job is not actually a volcano. It's the rocks that used to be a volcano with their term side in it. It's fascinating. Another variety of basalt is... This is the bubbling kind of basalt. It's full of bubbles when it erupted. Bubble, fossil bubbles slowly thinner than the amygdia. So they're kind of impressive. And to learn how to do it in place, I think this is actually one of both of our challenges on there. Now we're going down to the deep, deeply buried plutonium rocks. And of course, you all know that it's a rather tragic place in this colorful, alkylophelesphere. And that's about as few years will get. In fact, geologists know that there are, you know, dozens of different official rock types that are between the balance of quartz and plutonium clays and alkylophelesphere. And the real ground, the true ground, there's only a little bit. It's all this. It all counts as ground. So I'm going to treat it the same way. Even though this is not ground, this is mine tonight. I think. Actually, I looked at it after I made this slide. I think it's really an alkylophelesphere, but it does really have some true ground that there is. You can see it's really minimalism. But it doesn't go down. So ground counts. We also have gemroach and leather that was down on the right hand, the lower right corner of that triangle. And that's a pretty cool thing to have. Not every city has them. Both of those. And now we're going to the sun imagery box. They're layered. They're all like the Grand Canyon. Most of them are made of sand and gravel. Sand and mud. And they're called silhouettes. Those are all silicon minerals. The stuff that you see in the riverbeds and you see them when you walk down the beach and you you sink to your knees and then the mud and then the mud. Those are all so surprising. Minerals. However, some imagery box are also made by living things. And both of them have both trains. They're buried not very deep. They're cropped. Not very, not very hot. They're treated gently. And they're set in three blocks. So let's look at some of them. First is, this is what happens when you bury a display for a long time on the ground and you get a lot of shale. It's very, very, very wide. This is off of a caramel kind of road. And it's a beautiful little shale.   And it's all creamy and you can't feel anything between your teeth like shale. But it's green and so it's done. And I'm teaching a geologist's too. It's a real trick that I teach in a geologist's group. Sandstone, geologist's sandstone. Sandstone is sand and it's generally stone. It's the first thing. Also it's also got Babylon and it's got clay and it's dirty, dirty stuff. And we also have mudstone. Mudstone doesn't have to be sand. It's just silk and clay. I can try to take full-sub picture of it. It's not going to show you. It's not going to show you. It's all you have. This is the cool stuff. Can glomerate. Can glomerate is one of the particles of actual stones. And I like this stuff. Open as three different rock units. This is the cool glomerate. This is one of the oldest ones. This is in the bed of a royal gecko in all that part. And it's beautiful stuff. And the next category is, as I said, there are rocks in here. And one of them is church. Church is made by microscopic skeletons of a sea-dwelling plant with red-celled creatures in it. Beautiful little shells. And laying out in the middle of the deep ocean they form this radial air in rooms that slowly turns into a red shirt. Now, if you go to the Mermen Heslins, you see hundreds of bees in this stuff. San Francisco's got a whole bunch of them. And we have our share too. We also have one shirt. Which was made entirely from geological curating not entirely from geological setting or entirely different microscopic creatures. But we have that too. This is actually this is also on Parmah Canyon Road. This is the Parmah Church which is the same stuff as the famous Monterey Formation. Which is where California gets about 80-90% of its oil. It came from this source, from this stone. It was full of organic matter and attributed to petroleum. We have a little bit of it here. We don't have oil wells in over here. I think we might have some that we keep looking for. We also have a little bit of limestone. And that's in the same place. Just a little positive. And that's good enough for me. Because limestone is where I can come by and remember when I pointed out that red that red finish on the wildlife when I was coming to Oakland where that red stuff has turned into oak tree. Which is a thick crust of iron outside minerals. And in fact there was such a large deposit up in the Oakland Hills where the Redwood Shopping Center is that the negative tribes is divided and they used to trade it. It was possible for oak. Oak was what you'd pinch your face with. You'd decorate the graves and all sorts of things. There's nothing like it. It stains everything silver red. That's what Oak was paying us for back in the day before the Spanish came. Now, a hundred years ago there were some tomatoes that came in and made an oak for mine. They mined it while not turned into paint. There's a little bit left. I'm told that the local tribes who went to the left still don't know where to get for their sacred purposes. And that's good enough. That particular boulder was up at that Holy Age College where they got a little exhibit there at the houses here. Then you go on to the hand-worked rocks. Those are the ones that these are what happens when you keep burying the rocks. You keep burying them and being young. The plate-type horses deep down in the earth start messing with them. They squeeze them, cook them. The minerals change into different forms. They get all swirly like this and I think Oakland has some of the best mineral water products of all. But there's going to be more of them than there are with the other two that I showed you. A simple one is Brett Schaub. It's a tiny word. It means broken. It's a rock made of broken pieces of rock. Then we get to the serious stuff starting with greenstone. It's a little bit greenish. It's more or less greenish. But it's basically with salt. It's the amount of stuff I showed you earlier. But it's just going to look a little bit awesome. When you take shale and you squeeze a lot of nutrients in the slate. Unfortunately, we don't really have any slate enough. There's a building. So this is over on House Street. We do have this present Argyllite. It's the same kind of rock. But it doesn't split because much of the slate slates. When you take sandstone it doesn't change much. Not to start with. It turns into metasecond stone. So it's the same. But if you stick it in a thin section and cover it in a thin section and stick it in the microscope and we'll see that this stuff has jadeite. It's a high pressure mineral that forms in other quartz that sand has made of. It doesn't change at all. It's a step around that changes the way it's done. So it's kind of a secret. But but it's a matter of time. It's a matter of time. And who are you? If you have a nice clean sandstone you squeeze it into a beautiful clean white quartzite. So we have quartzite next to the ground. And the reason they're together is that they were both one of those stones in the old kind of deep lomber. They were carried down here by rivers many years ago cemented in the trunk of the lomber and then they went out of the roadside and fell down on the road where I saw them. So this probably came from the Sierra Nevada way back when it was just a young volcanic. And who knows where it's taken from. There's rocks that have been brought here from all over California. And then you take a shirt in terms of the wonderful things and high pressure. This is from a piece of rock in a vacant home lawn that had been brought by Jarrah's and it's fantastic. It makes sense but it does this better than what I have to do with this. If you go into Golden Gate Park there's some amazing bullies in this stuff. But we're pretty good. We're pretty good. We're pretty good.  And you jump on a suspiciously mineral to carbonate murals called calcite. Calcite is what live stones mean. And when live stones, you can have a little marble.  It's a very strange rock. It's actually from a very deep deep buoyancy for the Earth's mantle. When you make lava it comes from this stuff. This stuff gets hot and a little bit of melts and partially melts and that melt trickles out and it leaves a keritotide behind. It's unusual to find this on land. You can see it once in a while and you find these mountains. And this is a serpentine prairie. And the thing about poritite is when it's exposed to seawater when it's circling around and plaiting products under the ocean it slowly gets altered into this stuff the serpentine. And serpentine it's hard to this is better it's color blueish and greenish and shiny and gorgeous stuff.  Also serpentine or serpentine like this geologist call it this kind of rock. Yeah, hey. And I wish we had some of this on the ground what we have in our buildings this is a sort of pensionized marble and it's sort of in the train it's called Berenice anybody recognize where that comes from? This is from the I Magnet building. Yeah and you'll see in other places around town too it seems to be a really popular building stone at some point. I like it. And then we get to schist.  The main way to be a schist is that all the minerals get cooked and separated into little thin layers so there's all these layers in curly layers that's called schistosity. So here's a kind of schist that's a green schist and an actual schist. An actual schist is a green mineral. It's called a green schist because of the nasophage subjected to the right amount of pressure at the right temperatures to create a whole stream of minerals all muscle which are green. So that's a green schist. And one of those gruelist rocks is a blue schist. The blue is a mineral guacophane. Blue schist forms when one gets subducted way down to a very high pressure but it can happen so fast that it doesn't get hot. So it's a low temperature, high pressure mineral guacophane which is blue schist. You see bits of it up in the serpentine zone between north and red and brown and around serpentine. And some other places too. One of those special rocks. San Francisco got a lot of that stuff. And another variety of schist it's not really a variety of schist it's called NICE but it walks the same way except that it has big, wide bands of minerals in thin layers. The white of the dark and the white is mostly quartz. This was you may recognize this, you may not this is from the Rotario building the popular building in stone. Of course they call it grant because it's way beyond the moon. The builder is grant. So all these rocks they all make sense in the context of this big story which is the subduction process, the plate-tent tribes the rocks they form in the middle of the ocean and the plate forms where these things come from where the red shirt comes from when the subduction forms these rocks and forms those those and those and so they all fit in the cycle and no one is blessed but all these examples you only put parts in the tectonic cycle and when I started thinking about other places in this country I just cannot come up that has four rocks to help me so I got into research so I'm going to compare the three of our greatest American cities starting with Chicago this is Oakland and Chicago at the same scale a little time twist but all of Chicago is the geologic map of Illinois Illinois and all I have there is a limestone maybe a little bit straight I'll count that too if it can have that so who's got more um um Chicago got nothing they got nothing what about Los Angeles Los Angeles huge huge tall cities as you know and here's the geologic map Los Angeles most of it is just sediment and the sediment is just a little bit there it's sedimentary stuff so I made a list of what they probably had over the years and they've got some vast form they have vast form you know the red targets that's amazing kids that's a work class place anyway that's really cool do they have the most rocks no way was there maybe not and then they're finding me in New York New York and here's all the good things I mean both time plus with all the characters and uh there's a geologic map over there as a word for Staten Island Staten Island is a very good place they've got salt they've got all this stuff that's over in the uh in the Palisades beautiful Palisades and even just there but Staten Island all this equipment is just very sedimentary it's always such stuff Manhattan Manhattan is full of schist Manhattan is full of schist it's got a bunch of marmalade it's got inwood with the inwood marmalade we've got the inwood marmalade we've got the inwood schist beautiful stuff it's sort of nice so they're not going to spend that's it so who's got more? Russell Ann what are you doing about here? so that's the little magic we're going to see oh my gosh limestone do you want to know? I think there are a little oh well do you want to go to Rockaway Beach in Pacifica? is it a limestone court here or is it a limestone limestone limestone and those are the two main places Wretchen and Kudlummer Wretchen is like I said it's a tiny broken piece of rock that seems itself to be made of stuff that's been toppled around in the river where things are probably with Kudlummer and Sweden there's some sort of rivers Wretchen is crushed right here in the place there isn't too many differences can you tell us more of the story of how these different formations came about over time no I can't to be able to lecture I'm sorry but like I said subduction and the Hilbert fall just a little bit of pushing down full with all this rocks and hills and stuff like that and I think it's just a huge long story and that's why geologists go to school and they never learn something they've not heard in the years there's all I just want to try to say if you were trying to strip me of it's status like it's completely wrong they did yeah a southern California legislator named Laurie Romero who's still out there in the river education reform circles she got a two lobbyists coming from the Mississippi Loma lawyers and that's true the state of Bill in the Hopper and the legislature to remove Cermity as a California state rock she wanted that she needed it's full of asbestos and it's part of the stuff that would not be her state rock anymore I was part of the effort to fight that fortunately fortunately this all came out in the summer so many seasons so the newspapers picked up this story on the lines of this state rock and she backed down when they tabled it that was the story in one of the one of the one of the mid-forms of certain gene minerals is the small and fire risk in the role of your Cermity asbestos and it's unhealthy in severe, chronic exposures to powdered asbestos to kill you asbestos that's not much of a hazard it's like the same hazard in the summer I would say this still, hey that's the story of Cermity it's safely it's safe in sounds of a state rock Cermity was America's first state rock Oakland had the rock that Indians made arrowheads from that Indians made arrowheads from do they have flinch? well they had chert and like that high quality medical chert I showed you someone did as good enough to work the arrowheads but the arrowhead material that was mostly traded around these parts by the Indians was obsidian it's a volcanic rock there's no obsidian but that civilly for instance there's some beautiful deposits in Napa Valley and elsewhere at that state that's the beautiful black glassy stuff I wish we had some more last question sorry I do not the reason I learned that Oakland had its ochre deposit was I was way out in Chouchilla or they have a beautiful fossil museum there's a landfill outside of Chouchilla and they started digging and they started digging those mastodon bones and we started to see more bones and stuff and the guy that they put in charge of walking around in the pit looking for bones is one of the local tribes Chouchilla tribesmen and he told me that he said he got his ochre from Oakland and was well-known among medieval circles that's where he went to build and I looked and researched it you just can't find the really good stuff I've got a lot of stuff but no I've not talked to the natives I've not asked them where their secret hiding places are I've just poked around the hills and I've just seen rocks over here and they were so nice to start hi hi I'm Herbie thanks for being here everybody I'm really excited to be a good guest emcee I'm really excited before we get started I just want to say thanks to Club 21 for hosting us we've got some breaking news from the public library on January 16 because we can 1.30pm to 2.30pm the San Francisco Chamber Orchestra will be performing at the main range on 14th Street I'm excited to take so a little while ago I was like hey Herbie have you been in a talk before have you been in a show Swallowed I'm 12 that's cool and so I thought it would be really easy to give in a show when I talk about Swallowed because there's some jokes there so you want to hear about the jokes it's great so I'm going to tell you about them right now so I thought we could just talk about fans we'd like to swallow so I picked Herbie soon it's delicious it's hard to read it but I'll see it's a rich dessert with layers of ladyfingers cookies soaked in semen it's hard to see that here it moved it it should be two lines up that arrow is supposed to say one to two tablespoons fresh semen fresh semen is a great variation to use the semen in the cream instead of soaking the ladyfingers in it this is a real cookbook this is an actual cookbook it's called Natural Harvest it's by a man in San Francisco he also has a company do a mixology book if you guys want to check it out while I was researching these interesting topics a voice came into my head very familiar nagging my mother's voice saying this is a really bad idea to get on stage and talk about semen swallowing down a man and so I thought maybe there's a different route we can go maybe something more scientific I'm a big fan of zoology I'm a huge fan I think that nature is fascinating and full of interesting things especially when it comes to weird sex it's like maybe I'll just look up swallows see how that goes why don't I just talk about swallows that's still there oh thank you I love people who love birds so much that's great and so then I thought well I feel like if I talk about swallows I'm going to do that like what's the bird of true love joke and so I thought no I should just not talk about swallowing but not swallowing which leads us to this guy right here which is a painting of Tannochromis Horiae that's right I decided to not talk about swallowing instead talk about a fishing Horiae so here's a painting of the fish it's not a picture and that's an important thing to note because if you see the anal fin I also have a green laser so if you see the anal fin right here it's important to note the difference and the next slide here's the next slide just a photograph of the Horiae this is an african cichlid african cichlids live in a few different lakes in Africa obviously and they have a very interesting breeding rituals camera rolls, bird sex happens all the time so the important thing to note here is the anal fin as I pointed out in the last slide this slide has a little couple of polka dots those little dots right there those are called egg spots so it's important and we'll get back to that in a second but imagine that Mr. Horiae here's out on the night of the town he's looking for a lady, he finds one he has been waiting for her to go off somewhere so included and hang out for a while things get kind of heated and excited she goes ahead and starts laying some eggs she then goes around and starts picking up the eggs and putting them in her mouth but not swallowing see what I'm doing here again she's still swimming around trying to get all the eggs in her mouth and she sees the egg spots she's like oh shoot I forgot some eggs I better go swallow those nibbles up on that anal fin and guess what happens guys he fertilizes them in her mouth cool so then she's got them in there for like a month and this happens in all sorts of dark kinds of fish it's not just the cichlids it's the African cichlids Central American and South American cichlids but it's also some saline fish these guys right here the jowl fish and also the cardinals and it's male and female fish that are mouth brewers so sometimes they even share sometimes some of the eggs this guy right here now this is a a frog obviously but it's a frog that a gastric breeding frog or I should say was or maybe is it's a gastric breeding frog from Australia and I say was or is because it turns out that this gastric breeding frog is extinct but kind of because de-extinction scientists are bringing it back to life they actually successfully made a few of them they lasted about 15 minutes before they died but they brought an extinct animal back to life that swallows its babies and then throws them back up again because science yeah that's pretty cool but here to talk about things in a little bit more of a professional manner is a someone who I think is a really great person her name is Flo Schumer she's going to talk to you about actually swallowing things and I'm going to go ahead and get off the stage and apologize to my mom first time presenter we'll talk about swallowing how swallowing works what happens when it does there's a swallowing therapy which so every Korean speech language mythology when you study the anatomy and physiology of speech and language you're learning out the same parts of the body that are used when we swallow so when you go to graduate school for speech you also are then certified to be a swallowing therapist so that's really what I do and that's my job and so I really am going to tell you about swallowing but I'm really not going to tell you specifically about your weird swallowing problem so if you have a problem you need to go and talk to your doctor I'm not here to diagnose you that's just like a random disclaimer I found from the internet but it is applies okay so people are like you know people are like wait it's a real job yeah it's a real job like why doesn't anybody care about swallowing it's because we all do it all the time so you might not think about it until it goes wrong but when it goes wrong it goes really wrong so you all do it and if you couldn't do it you couldn't eat or drink and that would get bad real quick right because obviously we need to know ourselves and be hydrated so you could argue that yeah there's like artificial nutrition but there's so many ethical and medical reasons why it's not always going to be appropriate and also people like to eat most people like to eat you know there's probably like the soy lentils out there and like maybe they want to go get a feeding tube but that's not really indicated or appropriate like swallowing and eating food and drinking liquids are normal natural and that's what people want to do and the fact is that swallowing happens across the lifespan something you do literally in the womb this is the grossest thing I'll say all day but babies swallow a liter of amniotic fluid every day in the womb so weird but when you think about it they have to practice swallowing because the first thing they do when they get out of the womb is they have to be able to breastfeed so they have to have been practicing swallowing in order to be able to do it otherwise they're not going to make it so little babies are swallowing in the womb you right now sitting there in the audience are swallowing a couple times a minute and I've been thinking about it but obviously more when you eat and drink like 300 times during the meal even when you sleep you're swallowing so swallow when you're a baby swallow when you're a normal adult and you also swallow even when you're old look at these cute old people I can't take cool pictures for cute old people and they're really cute and I happen to have a particular soft spot for old people because I work in nursing facilities with geriatric adults and the reason I work with older adults is because older people are more likely to have diseases and neurological impairments that affect their swallow just as you get older these sorts of impairments tend to accrue things like cancer strokes, neurological diseases like Parkinson's dementia, those are all things that can affect your swallowing there isn't anything that affects your health that affects your swallowing but obviously your health gets worse as you get older so people always ask me oh you teach people how to swallow and I'm like no if you don't need anyone to teach you obviously that baby in the womb wasn't reading the instruction manual you don't have to tell somebody how to swallow it's an instinct so for my patients if they don't if food is in their mouth and they don't know what to do with it no amount of me telling them put your tongue here put it that way they're not going to understand how to do that could you explain to somebody else what muscles you use if somebody explained to you what muscles would you know what they were talking about you can't see it so it's hard to understand it with words so no I do not teach people how to swallow so what do I actually do when my job basically I take a look at the different stages of swallowing and we're going to talk about the four stages of swallowing and we figure out like where's the problem and then I target an intervention that fixes that problem so we're going to go through it there's four stages of swallowing and in grad school they help us remember it with the acronym of Hope there's the prep phase so you're getting ready to teach something delicious then there's the oral phase so you can get there then there's the pharyngeal phase so oral phases are chewing something into the bolus we'll talk about the bolus too the pharyngeal phase and then the foods of your throat and the esophageal phase when it's actually in your esophagus when it comes to your stomach so we're going to go step by step what is happening when you swallow so the first you're getting ready to eat something delicious you want to eat a tasty taco you're getting ready to eat your food that's the prep phase the prep is everything before the food gets into your mouth so what can go wrong there that's not even swallowing but there can be problems with somebody maybe not being able to see their food if they have low vision maybe they have no appetite they see the food but they're like I don't want that or maybe they have an impairment where they can't physically get food up to their mouth because they have a movement impairment it's really easy to fix and I can kind of make an intervention that helps somebody get over those problems if they need some assistance if they need something to stimulate their appetite if they need someone to help them with their eating that's how I might help somebody in that phase of swallowing okay now oh it cut out to my throat oh maybe it's in yeah okay so now we're in the oral phase of swallowing this is like chewing and here's some of the muscles that are involved in chewing there are so many goddamn muscles in your face guys these aren't even the ones that are in your tongue those are like 20 muscles just for like flapping your jaw in town that's incredible to me it's very complicated so I'm not going to talk about any of those muscles but just know that the oral phase is all about chewing, masticating your food into what we call a little bolus so bolus is just a nasty word for a little ball of food okay so the important thing about oral phase is that you're using your face muscles all of these and your tongue muscles so I wanted to give a quick shout out to your tongue does anybody know and one thing that's really cool about tongue is that they have something that's really common with these other things so like tentacles and birthers and the trunks of elephants I don't know if you guys like super germy but they're muscular hydrostats yeah I'm like yeah I almost got a hydrostat there's no bones in your tongue or in any of these other things but when they move they're just contracting on themselves to be able to move in three dimensions I think that's really cool like no other part of your body does it and almost nothing else in the animal kingdom does it except for those things so I think that's pretty cool so you've got all these muscles in your face all these muscles in your tongue and you can imagine that if anything is going wrong with those muscles that's going to mess up your oral phase because you're not going to be able to chew or if anything goes wrong with your teeth like maybe you hide your teeth probably not you messed up your swallowing so like what goes wrong a lot of times people just can't chew their food or maybe they've had a stroke and they can't feel the food that's on one side of their mouth so maybe you might see them like kind of drooling or foods falling out of their face or maybe they're kind of doing this like one side of a chipmunk thing where the food's getting stuck but they don't feel it so you know it's like okay well what are we going to do about that one of the simplest things one of the simplest things that we do oops I don't know look at that I forgot I just want to work with me he got his jaw on her chest I don't remember this episode I was actually looking for the photo or the image where this is an indentist and her teeth are going through her gums do you guys know that image I was looking for that one but it gave me this one instead when I googled fixin's dentist anyway so if you have something wrong with your teeth that's what that was so something that we can do is change the texture of the food so people can eat it it's a freaking expensive one they're all so I don't necessarily recommend pure writing everybody's food but maybe there's some people that might help them chew it but so we might need to modify the texture of the food to be able to chew or maybe I can teach somebody little tricks like how to get the food out or how to hold their body in such a way or just become aware of the fact that food gets much slower or like hey like your face a little bit your kind of drooling so those are some things I might do with people who are in trouble with the oral phase but way more cool is the pharyngeal phase the pharyngeal phase is when the bowl is that little bottle of food is actually going to the back of your throat and that's just the pharynx the back of your throat and complicated for our swelling and I'm going to try to break it down so it's real simple a lot of that game won't leave your phone here okay so so most people don't realize this because you can't see in the back of your throat you've never looked in the back of your throat you have no idea what's going on back there and probably and I don't know what people think is happening when they swallow but I think people probably just think that the food is like falling down the back of their mouth into like an open pit that goes to their stomach that's not really what happens it's like a way more complicated than that but it's kind of cool and what's really happening during the pharyngeal phase is that the bowl is which is that little dancer of all food it's going to go from your mouth down into the back of your throat but it has to do something really tricky which is a boy going down your way okay so can you guys actually see me or not I'll just try to show it to you guys on the slide so in the back of your throat you have two tubes and the one that's in the back of your neck is really small that's your esophagus that's where we want the food to go but it's really small and actually when you're not swallowing just in your day to day life right now you're breathing your esophagus is closed and there's another tube and it's in the front of your throat and that's your airway and that goes down to your lungs and that's where we don't want food to go now the thing is that they're really really close to each other and by really close I mean they're separated by a few meter of tissue and it's really like if you believe in intelligent design like this is the worst design ever this is a shitty, shitty sign because if you've ever had food go down the wrong way you know how awful and uncomfortable that is if you've ever had to give someone a Heimlich you know how terrifying that is okay so basically the whole point of the swallowing is that the food goes from the front of your mouth and when it touches a part of one spot in the back of your mouth it triggers a reflex and the whole point of that reflex is to protect your airway and to make it so that the food actually goes so the food goes down into your esophagus and doesn't go into your airway so what I'm going to have you guys do is actually feel what this feels like so go ahead take your hand just like your open hand if you don't have to hang up this or anything and just put your fingers really gently on your throat so if you have an apple you can put your hands on your apples if you don't have an apple just kind of imagine where that would be so your apple is actually like right here and it's the part that actually attaches to your vocal cords so those are your vocal cords go ahead and swallow and see what happens did you guys feel stuff? did it feel like it went up and down? yeah cool otherwise talk to your doctor is that your airway is actually closing off you can't feel that part but what you do feel is that it actually lifts up and gets the hell out of the way so that way that little piece of tissue that's called your epiglottis can flap down and the bolus can kind of roll over like a trap door and simultaneously your socket is open it's really wide so the food goes, or in this case your saliva goes down on your socket finally chord with coordinated action and like you've got shooting involved a lot of muscles this is like way more because it's involving your respiratory system your digestive system just so many things going on so you can imagine that actually a lot of things were wrong here I don't know what the next slide is but I already forgot oh yeah yeah okay so I'm going to actually just leave this out here for a minute to make everyone uncomfortable you like it? so what could go wrong? basically anything that's going to affect the nerves of your throat especially the tightening of your reflexes it's going to affect your swallowing in the perisal phase and like what's the worst thing that can happen is that food or liquid goes down the wrong way and that's where this comes into play so does anybody know what these are? yeah they are popo quarters and so what happens when you're choking is that food is literally stuck in between your vocal cords and down beneath your vocal cords if you're looking at them from above beneath them is your airways that goes down to your lungs so if you're choking the food is literally blocking the passage to your lungs so you can't breathe obviously that's an emergency but slightly more insidious is that small particles of food or liquid can go down the wrong way and that gives them pneumonia and those are really common things for people who are elderly and who have difficulty with their perisal phase of swallowing because they're not protecting their airway so that's a huge part of my job is assessing whether people have problems perisal phase and assessing if food or liquid is going down the wrong way because if it is basically they're at a really high risk to your choking and pneumonia which for elderly people can be like life threatening or even deadly so okay so you know what can go wrong so what do I do basically you can't really feel it but the food is traveling down and it's being pushed by these muscular weeks and so you might be like well yeah gravity is going down and it's swallowing and yeah so I want to play it I want to just let you know this is the original music I did not somebody made this video I put this music to it it's hypnotic, it's average so what you're looking at is this a smoothie I have to show another little video I'm turning the next button so I wish I could actually control this and talk over here what I want to show you guys is this is a video of somebody getting a modified variant swallow study and what that means is it's basically like an x-ray but for somebody who's having trouble swallowing and we're actually going to have them sit in front of this x-ray camera and make them swallow barium which shows them as black on the x-ray so it's a movie x-ray where they're having trouble swallowing so this guy wants to talk about acid reflux how does that happen so your stomach is really acidic and it has to be in order to kill bacteria and help you digest and normally there's a valve between the bottom of your esophagus and your stomach and it's made that way so that the acid from your stomach doesn't come back up because that acid is so strong it can actually burn mattress because that's what you're going to elevate ahead of your bed that way it makes a lot of the vessels in your body expand especially your blood vessels and it will get more blood going to places where it's needed and another thing that it does is it makes your airway open way wider so your vocal cords are normally open to allow you to breathe they actually open even wider so you're able to suck in more oxygen and actually do more breathing oxygen exchange so you actually feel it because your airway is a little bit wider yeah that's a good design as you often what about these professional meters how do they do there are huge things how do you practice so if you want to know how do professional eaters do what they do I have to say that they crash because I don't think they just woke up one day and my scarf is 60% off I think they like to do it but it's technically still normal swallowing it's very thin okay you guys that was great another thing not only do they get to talk about swallowing but they get to talk about inter-specific communication you guys know that so it's always the type of one of this stuff all the way along you guys thanks for coming on internet on a day that's between two holidays and where it's kind of so we're going to talk about inter-specific communication for just a second it's a very brief cursory overview I'm not officially a zoologist I don't agree with philosophy that's why I used to manage a bar so when you think about animals talking to other animals often times people think about humans talking to other animals because we're animals and they're animals and that's we're pretty testicle so I'm going to approach it from something that we're all pretty familiar with I think in the room and then something that we all have to screw up I think a pretty realistic approach to humans talking to animals that's Disney princesses I see you guys probably know that Disney princesses are all very extremely adept at talking to animals and also having the animals talk to them some people would say that means that they're ratchet crazy I don't know I'm not sure about that I'm not totally sold that they're totally crazy although with Ariel it does result in some unfortunate flaws in her communication styles like they go hopper as a fork maybe don't listen to the bird about that one and also the whole like what's that called again oh yeah street and that thing I think that it's actually pretty realistic that we communicate with animals on a regular basis also as a side note if you're ever a guest emcee you can put a picture of your dog on the street for everyone to look at which is awesome this is Henry the dog Jones this is my canine and Henry the dog Henry the dog Jones is a very smart he's probably the smartest dog I've ever met and most attractive but so dogs in general can understand up to 500 commands which is pretty impressive cats poop in a box you guys probably have all seen that being but um cats rule dogs drool he's a serious cat people maybe we'll have the bathroom in front of it that's awesome I can talk to my dog and he talks back to me which basically makes me a disney princess so just thank you but this is a form of inner specific mutualism that means that key benefits, eye benefit we both are having a great time there's a lot of other kinds of inner specific species though so what about non-human animals they're more cute not that Henry but then me perhaps so usually the most important things are what we communicate about those most important things often times are about staying alive so epistematism epistematism is the signaling that you don't want to fuck with this thing it's brightly colored it probably smells bad or it's poisonous and you don't want to eat it or mess with it this happens in many kinds of species it's really like a well known kind of signaling but it's a visual cue so there's visual cues and there's also there's auditory cues as you are familiar with the western rattlesnake you can find this guy around the mountaineer they come into encounters with ground squirrels a lot ground squirrels don't want to get eaten and the rattlesnake wants to eat them it's a kind of a communicative moment for them and there's this opportunity to engage in some kind of conversation that animals like to have the ground squirrel likes to signal yo-yo back the fuck up and you guys know by raising his tail up really high he also throws dirt which is, that's cool it's very communicative so there's another form of communication that's pretty interesting and just now recently being understood by data scientists in the last 10 years so they understood this by developing a very special kind of ground squirrel that's the robo squirrel the robo squirrel has infrared in it and it's to mimic the actual actions of the ground squirrel who uses infrared signaling so that hot ass tail is really actually a hot ass tail saying back the fuck up and it works the rattlesnake packs up even against the robo squirrel the infrared, but the infrared not having a robo squirrel doesn't work so well not that anything happens because the rattlesnake's not going to need a robo whatever so what about not all kinds of communication like what about if you just want to chat with your animal friends you know what it's now like in 140 characters there are projects a lot of people have already seen this it happened in like 2012 or so so in an easter near it put a bunch of lard on a keyboard and birds came and guess what they did oh my god they tweeted or or as Ariel would say what's that word again oh yeah tweet and ladies and gentlemen thanks so much again for tolerating one of my introductions um thank you for this literature to give a real sense it's Mazah Kharaz Virgins, I hope I did not mess up the communication in her name thanks so much I hope you guys can follow the anthropology dance music music speech actually one of the great reasons to propose a strong connection between bird song animal language the sound was heard by bird over several weeks back the nearest analogy to animal language and that she contributed and indeed we know now that bird song and animal language have a strong analogy at several levels from the developmental level, structural level neurological level and mostly recent way professory child based group in the university shows a specific group of 50 genes that show the same part of activation in the brain of bird song and the brains of humans so this is pretty cool we have the same gene that activates the same way in bird brains and human brains but the scheme of these we are always asking why do you go to primates primates are closer to us, why do you study primates and the reason is that besides being technically different aren't you working with primates they are massive animals they are really crazy and they have these other groups any time the truth is that part of the scheme of these they are really certain being vocal they make all these noise they go to the zoo where you see they are screaming and they have a lot of vocalization but what I mean here is really complex vocal behavior just like what they want to do right now so I brought up a very creepy study that is trying to cheat a chimpanzee to speak English words and this is the key the chimpanzee they are trying to cheat people research psychologist Dr. Keith Haynes and his wife raised a chimpanzee after constant training that he had learned to speak only 3 human words by the time she was 3 years old okay alright the age of 2 and a half she would say about 5 and a half now she has learned to use all 3 of her words appropriately in solicitation so it's going to be really creepy to raise a chimpanzee like you are a bar and then it's your key you can see that Vicky just managed to learn 3 words at the age of 3 years old and actually these were pretty much the 3 words that she learned for her whole life and then she shows someone talking about 12 only and a lot of speech collections to that and then she shows that chimpanzees really don't have the vocal tract that fits the purpose of complex vocal behavior I don't want you to try chimpanzees and 20 on the 8 there is something that chimpanzees are really awesome at and they are awesome at singing signing so this is the first chimpanzee who starts to communicate through American Sign Language it's name is Walsho and it managed to learn up to 250 signs and communicate with humans using sign you also have Nium Nium Chips you have Nium Chips that goes after Nium Chips and Nium Chips he also managed to learn a bunch of signs and communicates using them it's a very cool documentary called called Chips Nium and the documentary shows Nium's life which was not the greatest life on earth but it's a very cool documentary from a watch and even orangutans orangutans did this shout-out and shout-out also managed to learn American Sign Language and communicate with humans using and of course you have Coco and Coco learned American Sign Language in all the times and managed to communicate not only with humans but I just brought up this video she's not really signing where Coco was cued and there is this whole discussion about Coco showing him a T-toiled humans talk about this species and even talk about humanity I think that she believes and really do that that it uses lexigrams so lexigrams are this type of character that you see here in the background and for example that one for rain I don't know how to use this one for rain it doesn't really do like a rain character that is meant to refer to rain and she can use this to communicate about things in the world with humans and among themselves so this is Coco and Coco is a master of sign and she believes they have amazing communication and communication abilities they are not just doing that vocal video like we are and this is not what she believes this is about birds and how to talk about bird communication without talking about ferrets this is Alex recently he sees very important character in animal communication studies he was raised by a professor and picked back and Alex shows amazing vocal abilities and amazing communication abilities this is one of Alex's demonstrations of his abilities you understand the human speech animal words but he is also able to vocalize these words and produce these words and in this specific case he shows these children the concepts of same and different which was something that was not a long ago to just humans because he is some birds like birds even though are really fluffy ferrets but I said some birds in this case this is something that came out just recently in the Gaussian I don't know if you guys saw but in this species bird you may have seen this is not to call the words because some birds like this species like 30 just may have seen but this species is really awesome both species seem they not only seem but they synchronize the singing with boring movements so they dance and sing synchronizing at the same time this is all these species called white black porno and it's called the scientific name it's not sure it's the actual but first I'm going to tell you guys just a recap of what I mean by when they say a bird song is developmentally similar to human language what I mean is that just like a human baby has to listen to the sound so heard by a human other birds also have to listen to the sound singing and then over time they start to imitate the sound just like a human baby starts to imitate the sound trying to speak birds also try to imitate the song trying to sing and in humans we call this bubbling and in some birds it's called song and over time human babies develop this table speech and the same for some birds it's called a female song which is called crystallized song and just over time humans also have brain vocal areas language areas they're related to speech production and speech perception and in some birds also have brain areas that are related to vocal production in vocal perception and these areas are similar they connect each other alright so this is the middle of the speech oh this is the middle of the speech here and this is the white background or white ground pneumonia you can really see but it has a white patch in the back this is what it's called a white ground pneumonia and they start to destroy birds go like that white background pneumonia are a wild Chinese song birds that were brought into Japan around two hundred fifty years ago and they started being bred in captivity by bird keepers right at first they were bred for tenderness and for how good the bird handles captivity but a hundred fifty years ago some too much color mutations spontaneously emerged and this is why you have bayonet species with different colorations right this is just a sample they are really different in the way that they look like so these mutations happen and then bird keepers start to breed these words for coloration but some impressively enough the song of the bayonet speech this one changed when compared to the song of the wild species of the wild strain and there is no register and there is no record for breeding for song so this is not something that we intentionally selected when we were breeding it for it and the question is really how the song of the bayonet speech became more complex the song of the wild disaster right and this I've got a video of my collaborator Japan professor when he talks about what I mean when I say this song became more complex this is a song that I'm talking about this is the list created version of this white-lumped mullian this is an eye and hooker see and let's hear how does it sound like now let's hear the white-lumped mullian song you see here it looks like complicated but actually it's with the addition of same sequences like this here it looks like complicated so this is I try to bring a scheme of what Professor Kanoyo is trying to explain there so this is the white-lumped the white-lumped mullian and this is just the scheme of the song what you have is some elements they are the same old what they call motif and then the motif is repeated over and over and over again but if you actually hear this what you see is a bigger a greater flexibility with some elements so you have more variation in the sequencing of this song but it's not just more complex than the song of this white-lumped mullian the bigger the scheme also show more complex learning abilities than the white-lumped mullian and what I mean by this Professor Kanoyo then this cross-pulsory experiment with white-lumped mullian tutors and in this case bigger institutions were able to copy this song of this white-lumped mullian with 92% of accuracy while when you do the cross-pulsory with white-lumped mullian with 90% of accuracy they can only learn with 82% of accuracy which means 10% less of accuracy so this shows that not only they can have a more complex song than it was like culturally speaking but they also can learn in a more flexible way so the question is really if we didn't select for this how did this came out we know that female choice plays a role in burton complexity and what I mean is that females tend to choose guys that have a more complex song but this emotional impulse is counterbalanced by all the true emotional impulses namely speech recognition and stress so what I mean by speech recognition is for example Professor Kanoyo tested white-lumped mullian that were living in the wild if I was right and he checked how of the song complex of white-lumped mullians they were sharing the environment of a mullian called sport pneumonia and he found that white-lumped mullians that were sharing the environment had similar songs then white-lumped mullians they were not sharing the environment which means that the white-lumped mullian shared the environment had to keep this on constant and stereotyped and simple so that they would not get complete with sport mullians and they would be able to even raise chicks of all these beaches usually making these beaches out alone in a cage so basically you lose this pressure of simplicity in this song another pressure is stress so there is a connection between how much stress the bird had and how complex the song meaning that a bird that is under a lot of stress introduces a song that is being simple and that is a bird that is under a lot of stress that is going to produce a song that is more complex and the professor of mine checked the fact of the stress of mullians in fact of samples of white-lumped mullians in many beaches and he found that for each stress of mullians he made white-lumped mullians a bigger solution we showed that many of these fish that are under a lot of stress that are talking produce more complex songs that are in the white-lumped center why they are under a lot of stress they don't have to forage or food they don't have to watch their backs for predators because they are in a captivity you know so what this hope means is that discrete forces here are not operating in the domesticated scenario therefore pre-made choice is just free to operate for a complex song right so this is the scheme of things so some complexity just becomes higher in the domesticated situation okay so how do you connect this to human language right if you think of we have a complex vocal production in our centers our centers are supposed to have a song complexity a vocal production that is similar to the extant singing so very stereotyped that is very rich-mannered learning so if you can understand how the big of these fish evolve in a complex sort of in the white-lumped center which kind of convolutional impulses were playing there you can understand which kind of convolutional impulses could play a role in human language pollution finally so I'm running a conference for the campaign very soon and there I show basically I describe my pipeline to study how the big of these fish evolve basically we're going to look into the gene of these birds to compare the gene of these birds and to play golf on them and then how these genes are activated in the brain of man in the white-lumped center thanks so much and I hope you guys can get a think of how study knowledge can help us to understand our own vision over here just a second they're turning them on just to expand the camera to your left no no no take the question so can you use the mic please so the question was the complexity of the meaning that is some bird has a single song any other questions have you found a evasion bird talk evasion yeah so they don't have a group chat where you have st. tax and semantics but there's something called phonological st. tax and it's basically the rule that describes the organization of the song even right so these songs they are they can be described by a phonological program on can you describe your planned experiment oh yeah okay so I don't have much time to talk about this are there planes that should comprise the genomes of these two birds so if you have the sequence of the genomes have you been doing all the genomes you can make of these two frames and then once you have the sequence you can analyze the sequence state was a positive selection you may have tried all the relaxation collection for species recognition and stress yeah yeah this is a perfect question actually this is the idea that it feeds to our biggest hypothesis in human evolution right now which is the stuff of mitigation hypothesis and there's a bunch of findings showing that we might be a stuff of mitigation species in the sense that we selected each other for mutating and this is exactly what happened in the middle of this video we selected for things where a bunch of things happened as a component of that complex song they have more I need to talk about the infantile frames that we need to have but they have a lot of infantile frames and they are not aggressive at all all these things and yeah there is a whole new connection between the hypothesis these birds and how it reaches the root thank you so much


Everybody we're back, this is Dave Vellante at Wikibon.org. This is theCUBE, SiliconANGLE's continuous production of EMC World 2013. We're here in Las Vegas, day three, about 15,000 customers and partners and it's really quite an event, probably the biggest and best EMC World that I've been to in the largest of date. I'm here with Stu Miniman, my co-host for this segment. Greg Shearer is here. He's the Vice President of Storage and Strategy at Broadcom. Greg, welcome back to theCUBE. Thank you, it's good to be here. Yeah, so this is quite an event. I think you guys, you have a presence here. You do. You just came in and I think we're struck by the size of the show, as was I.  Oh, it's tremendous. I mean, that coupled with holding it, you know, during an overlap time with NetWorld Interop down the street, it's really quite a venue. I see a lot of faces that have gone back and forth between the shows. Yeah, well, Stu, you had some folks on from Interop and across pollination. Absolutely, Dave. And we talk there's a lot of silo busting going on and as software is taking over the world, you know, people need to understand those cross-domains. I mean, if you look at a recent hire EMC brought in John Rose to be CTO, because they specifically wanted somebody that wasn't storage. And of course, John was CTO at Nortel and Huawei. So really knew the Interop crowd over there and, you know, talking about all these changes as EMC shows transformation. And, you know, Greg, you've been on theCUBE a couple of times. One of the things we've looked at is we think server virtualization really kicked off this wave of change in infrastructure, ripple through storage, and it's also rippling through networking. So, you know, maybe can you talk to us a little bit about what you're seeing from that intersection of storage and networking today and, yeah. Oh, I'd love to. I mean, it's fascinating, Stu, because, you know, if you look at it, the ripples are still going on in terms of how fast things are moving.  And, you know, from an economic standpoint, people, you know, that was the first practical platform within the enterprise that decided that convergence between storage and networking was important. I mean, it was not because it was cool technology, but because it was the economics that sort of demanded it. As we move into 40 gig and more, you know, more platforms that have, hey, you look at the latest, you know, Romly-based Intel platforms with, you know, multiple cores, you know, per socket, you know, that's only going to increase. These, you know, virtual servers are now capable of dozens moving to hundreds of, you know, virtual machines. And that's really pushing the envelope even further. If you look at a lot of the cloud-centric data centers, both public and private cloud, that drives the need for virtual networking. So outside of just the virtual server market, you know, we need the ability to instantiate virtual networks. So you see in the media a lot of times that the talk of NVGRE or VXLAN encapsulation or tunneling, we're at the very beginning of that in terms of even its use cases. Today, if you want to migrate a VM from one server to another server, those servers have to exist within the same subnet and VLAN today. Well, it's maybe practical on a very small scale, but if we're talking about global data centers where you have a data center in Norway and a data center in New York City, likelihood of them being on the same subnet or it's not likely, it's impossible. So the whole notion of virtual networking is really encapsulation and extending that notion of the network layer to where now I can appear in any virtual network that I want to anywhere in the world and therefore migrate my workloads accordingly. So Greg, I wonder if we can actually step back for a second and up level for a second. We were talking, you know, one of the big trends that kind of driving of software and in many ways kind of the commoditization of hardware underneath. You know, some of the folks at EMC World but you probably have heard of Broadcom but might not know all the places you guys sit.  If I go through the show floor as somebody that knows the components, it's like, oh, hey, you know, there's Juniper, there's Rista that's using your chipset. You look on, you know, all the servers that are going in there. Oh, I know where Broadcom sits in there. Can you give us kind of, you know, that high level, quick overview of where Broadcom sits? You bet, I'd love to. So Broadcom's actually organized into multiple different business segments. The business segment that I work with in the data center and service provider, we call ING or the infrastructure and networking group. Literally, if you go through a data center, it would be hard to find a component that doesn't, or a box that doesn't have Broadcom somewhere inside in the form of network processors with our XLP line of network processors are fies and surdies at the very low level in terms of being able to transmit data across copper at long distance or short reach. Ethernet controllers. So, we have a presence here at the show where we're displaying our new line of cards, Ethernet Nix, both specifically for Dell and HP servers, but we have a very broad line of both the chips themselves as well as boards. In addition to the Nix though, we have a very, very big presence in the switching marketplace. Matter of fact, most 10 gig switches, if you open them up, there's Broadcom Silicon inside. Except for the guys that make their own chips, like one of the big players in the market. Maybe them. But if you look at the- But even they have used Broadcom chips in some of their switch, especially in the low latency market. They do, specifically. And so, the presence, Broadcom really has a presence in many of those markets. I'd say virtually all of them, if you look under the covers, there's Broadcom Silicon. We like to really portray ourselves as really providing the foundation. I know SDN is a very overused term right now, but however you define SDN in terms of where software meets the hardware, in terms of networking, Broadcom provides the foundation for that with FI's and CERDI's chips, the physical layer to Ethernet controllers, Ethernet switches, and network processors to go ahead and work in conjunction with those. Yeah, so, interesting point there. I know you look at how SDN might change the marketplace. If market share shifts between the vendors, if you go to commodity switches like coming out of Taiwan, even any of those pieces, Broadcom's a winner. Yes, yes, matter of fact, we really believe that in a lot of the world, if you look at the switching market in general, what's helped people captive to specific vendors has really been their control plane software. Well, the very nature of OpenFlow, OpenStack, SDN is to take that control plane and commoditize it, push it out into the ecosystem to allow innovation to happen anywhere. I mean, there's many different avenues to this and we could probably talk multiple segments in the whole network NFV, you know. Network function virtualization. Thank you, I'll get think of his fabric. Network function virtualization and even the whole notion of putting things like Chef and Puppet, you know, that allow all different forms of applications to run through API is directly on commodity switches these are sort of both attacking the same kind of marketplace, but they're both looking at the same issue and that's to really allow innovation into the switching ecosystem, much like if you look at the x86 compute server market, anybody can write any application they want within the context of a server. That's really the basis for the operating system and the software development kits. That same paradigm is now moving into the network to be able to run your application where it makes the most sense, especially for visualization and statistics gathering and to be able to see what's happening in your network. We talk a lot on theCUBE about the hyperscale market and the things that we can learn from the Googles and the Facebooks and the Amazons of the world. We saw EMC this week announced that a big Viper software defined storage. You're talking about software defined networking, obviously that's kind of been from a theme standpoint but kind of a leader here, storage is sort of lagging in the whole software defined space and it looks like it's going to change but my question to you is specifically what, in your view, is the industry generally and broad come specifically learning from the hyperscale space, what lessons are you learning and how are you applying them? Boy, it's a great question because if you look at the hyperscale space, you know, within the context of the enterprise, we still talk about, boy, storage and networking, when are they going to fully converge in the hyperscale space? That question was answered many years ago so the answer is it's all Ethernet so storage is Ethernet, all your networking is Ethernet, your lower latency is all Ethernet. So convergence happened there very early on. The other thing that is fascinating is that within the context of the hyperscale environment, virtualization, server virtualization, multi-tenancy is really what was driven there on massive scale. So the whole notion of tunneling in the NBO type capability, network virtualization offload, that was really driven first within that hyperscale just again because of their massive scale where they're deploying tens of thousands of servers at a time as opposed to 10 or one Rackworth or 20 or 30, 40, 50, and their scale is so large that they've developed problems that really couldn't be solved any other way than within the hyperscale it's an all L3 network. TCP is used exclusively from a ECMP and a routing standpoint between top of racks. We see more and more of that happening now being brought back into the enterprise data center just to simplify how things are done, to use fewer amounts of folks to go ahead and manage the ecosystem because that's sort of the large tenant of the hyperscale environment is you can't afford to do things the same way that has been done traditionally in the enterprise. It has to be simple push button and very few personnel to oversee it. And that's being brought back in now. Innovation started in the hyperscale and is moving back into private cloud and the enterprise data centers. How long is that timeframe? Is it five years, seven years, four years? And is the time it takes for hyperscale to seep into the enterprise compressing? Oh, I think it definitely is. And the reason it's compressing is because of the economics. It used to be that two decades ago we did things because technology was cool and it was really the innovation cycle that we could do interesting things. Now we're really looking at it more from the standpoint that the enterprise data center is being driven to survive based on the economics of I need 10 gig, I need 10 gig everywhere because I don't have time to physically create silos of servers that here's my one gig that feeds into 10 gig uplinks that then feed into an ag layer that my tier one, tier two, and tier three of the data center. Now we're building flat data centers but specifically driven because I can go to a server and do a push button and completely reconfigure what are application servers, what are database servers and what are my web tier front end and change that configuration at will as opposed to setting out a crew to recable the servers. It's still, we're seeing so many disruptions here. We always talk about flash. If we remove that bottleneck then the network becomes the bottleneck. We've been talking about open flow, open source, open stack. Yeah, Dave, great point. And one of the challenges, you know, networking and especially if you talk kind of the economics it's a complex and layered piece. If I look at the move from one gig to 10 gig there's the server bus, there's the switchback plane. There's, you know, the cabling is one of the things that gets overlooked all the time and the cables and the optics are what cause so much of the cost and power. So Greg, you know, I think 10 gig, you know it's taken us over 10 years to really move. Yes. Switches, servers, have we gotten over 50% of all servers shipping 10 gig yet? No, we haven't actually. So the percentage in the rack is still quite low actually. It's, you know, on the order of 10% of rack servers. Now this is in the enterprise data center. If we were to look at the public cloud or more of the hyperscale environment. If you include China, which China is lagging the US and the, I'll call it just the Far East. You know, we're definitely seeing in the US it's a 50% penetration, you know, within the public cloud. China's a much smaller percentage. The overall rack though is probably sub 10%. Well, I know we had talked when Romley came out and it was, you know, the hope was that we would get that push to go beyond blade servers into the rack and stack market. So 10G base T's not catching on fast enough is, you know. We're seeing signs of that now and certainly Romley was a very slow start, a very, very slow ramp.  And again, there's a lot of optimism on many of our parts that we're going to start to see much more deployment. You know, something as simple as PCIe Gen 3 was very difficult with Romley. It was, you know, a new technology. A lot of folks were on the edge from the standpoint of interoperating with, you know, Intel servers and interoperating with each other. Ivy bridge is going to break that barrier and we're going to see wide scale deployment of PCIe Gen 3, which overall brings the cost of connectivity, you know, the speed of connectivity up and the cost of it down. So we have high hopes to see that penetration of 10G, you know, really increase significantly. 10G base T is a part of that. There are certain market segments, some of the hyperscale environment doesn't have a huge need for 10G base T because their cabling is top of rack. They're perfectly fine with, you know, direct attached copper, the DAC, Twin X cables. There's other environments though that are more the traditional enterprise that are end of row and they haven't completely migrated over to a 10 gig switching ecosystem. And 10G base T offers one thing that's really irrefutable from a value proposition and that's to allow each side to upgrade independently. And so we're starting to see more deployment of 10G base T, more switch rollouts too. There's been switch rollouts from Dell, there's been switch rollouts from Cisco, you know, major switch players that now have, you know, very concentrated high port count 10G base T switches.  I think in the general switch market you've got something that can do one or 10 gig and even a Rista last week announced that triple speed, one, you know, I'm sorry, 10, 10, 400 I think. So, you know, where are we with that kind of general, you know, cost dynamic of 10 gig, 40 gig and 100 gig? I mean, the cost dynamics, and it's always hard for me to talk specifically because there's always cost and price. I'm privy to the cost because we make the components. I'm not privy to the price because we don't sell it directly, it sells through other channels, but I can say that there's been a huge downward pressure on the overall prices, on the overall costs. The prices, I think, you know, within the tradition low EM market, I think that there's been the tendency to keep a really broad gap between one gig and 10 gig pricing. We're starting to see that come down and that's one of the reasons why I believe that in the IV bridge cycle, we're going to start to see, you know, significantly more 10 gig adoption. On top of the need from a technology and speed standpoint, cost is going to drive that. 40 gig is really a function. If you look at just the cost, 40 gig is really the price of four 10 gig ports. So it really is an MLD for four lanes of 10 bonded. The pricing is always a little bit different, but from a cost, that's what it is. So, Greg, Greg, we're about to wrap up. I want to give you the last word, though. What's the coolest thing you saw at Interop? Oh, boy. You know, the hard part is is that... Besides the Broadcom booth. Oh, that's true. Thank you very much. I think probably the coolest overall technology is really starting to put legs on some of the SDN capabilities. You know, there's been some companies that are being very practical in that and actually demonstrating some of the chef and puppet capabilities of putting really eyes and ears into the network from a purely third party standpoint to be able to see failures as they arise, microbursts, other things that are pretty exciting to have that level of visibility, not through one vendor, but through a very broad range of applications. I love that. Putting eyes and ears on your puppet. So, you know, that's excellent. Well, Greg, always great to deep dive with you on the networking. This is Stu Miniman with Dave Vellante, talking with Broadcom here from the Interop and EMC World Shows in Las Vegas. Always lots of great tech. Great to catch up with you, Greg, and look forward to continuing the conversation. This is SiliconANGLE-TV's live continuous coverage from EMC World 2013. 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