Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I was going to ask, but it's better not to. Exactly. As long as it happens. I know. I appreciate it. It was an easy answer. Thank you. It could have been a bigger discussion. I appreciate that. I will get a new one. I'm good to go. Thank you. Is it jinxing it or what? What's the order of the meetings tonight? I agree. We have a presentation from where we're co-op. I'm sure I'll see you later. Dave, is this called? I'm going to start the meeting. I just want to know if you're going to support that. Most likely. Thank you. We'll bring the meeting to order. We'll bring the meeting to order, please. Thank you. We will get the meeting started in the absence of President No. I would like a nomination I would like a nomination for enacting president for the evening. Councillor Busher. Yes, I'd like to now nominate councillor right Thank you Counselor Dean second. Thank you all in favor opposed President right. Thank you. All right. Thank you First item on the agenda is the agenda councillor roof. Yes Thank you. I'll move to amend and adopt the agenda as follows removed from the agenda item to 2.01 report retired Navy chief Joe Gilmond head of the local VVFW regarding christening of the US NS Burlington Oral per COS low Add to the consent consent agenda item 5.5 zero communication CT office regarding Accountability accountability log with the action to waive the reading except the communication and place it on file Removed from the from the agenda item 6.03 report councillor roof chair public safety community regarding homelessness Oral pork per councillor roof note written material for agenda item 6.04 communication Eileen Blackwood city attorney and Anthea Dexter Cooper assistant city attorney regarding church Street marketplace mural Everyone loves a parade in Burlington, Vermont per the city attorney's office and add to the agenda item 6.05 resolution appoint an inclusive tax task force to read Imagine the everyone loves a parade mural and report recommendations to the mayor and the city council councillor Shannon per council president Nodell Note revised version of this agenda item per councillor Shannon. Thank you Thank You councillor roof any discussion on the proposed amendments to the agenda Hearing none all those in favor of approving the agenda as amended please say aye I opposed we have our agenda and I would like to ask everyone to join with me and resend the Pledge of Allegiance, please All right, welcome everybody. Thanks for coming out tonight, and we will get into the agenda here The first item on our agenda is item number two item number two actually excuse me was has been removed from the agenda We moved item number three which is a presentation from the onion River co-op their yearly presentation John Tashiro Come on up and we always love hearing your report. Welcome. Thank you for your patience Good evening city councillors and the mayor Thank you for your patience. We're just trying to get the presentation up and Really today is really an opportunity that we every year to share the The city marketing river co-op over the last financial year as well as also wanted to provide you an update of How we have progressed since our south end expansion and as you're waiting you'll see my lovely assistant Allison hope Sharing our annual goodie bags all of you once again Really just wanted to thank the city and councillors for your tremendous support of the co-op and Enabling us to continue to make the impact that we so seek to do as part of our mission at the co-op So as in previous years I have Shared similar presentation with you in many respects This presentation is very similar to previous years as well as you may recall At one point this was really a requirement from city market to share and present to City council as part of the agreement we had the lease of the land at the downtown city market But since we had purchased the land Although it's no longer requirement. We feel That's very important to keep the city informed of our continued progress especially as we Continue to focus our efforts and how we best serve our members our customers and the community at large In terms of really our mission we have a mission called the global ends and as part of that Really our focus are some of the things that are represented here on the slide you see for you As it relates to release meeting the needs of the community at large And also supporting certainly through our focus with strengthening local food systems And addressing insecurity of food insecurity We offer as the co-op a variety of products and services That cover everything from organic and local products to conventional goods This is something that we have done over the years And certainly as part of our agreement with the city when we made the transition from the old north end To the downtown location. We made this significant shift and we've continued with that model That we have also expanded now to the south end As relates to our performance in 2017 You may be aware that as a single store co-op up until november of last year We generated a little under 42 million in annual sales It is a well-known fact That as a single store co-op last year we Remain one of the busiest and highest selling single store co-ops in the country This is actually quite an extraordinary point Something that i can't emphasize enough Considering The certainly size uh in the population of berlington compared to many other cities. We are comparing ourselves across the country In terms of the sales contribution from our members, we have now over 13 500 members, which is once again A new milestone for us They generate Close to 70 of our annual sales of that 42 million And in terms of our emphasis around local products and offering those product options 40 percent of our annual sales is generated from local products. So once again from a Co-op standpoint We continue to really stay focused in how we best deliver and supporting The local community our local businesses and our local farmers and vendors In terms of providing local products Another area that we're very proud of is about How we really look at the well-being of our employees Up until November of last year we had about 237 Employees but with the expansion with the south end we ended up hiring Approximately a hundred new employees A pretty significant shift For the co-op of which close to 80 percent are full time One thing to point that in a traditional sort of food retail environment It is usually the case that that is the opposite Food retailers tend to hire part-time staff to minimize their labor At the co-op and this is a long tradition in the co-op world We have emphasized the need to really hire as many full-time staff So we do have that continuity That hopefully you experience when you come to the co-op in terms of that customer experience and customer service And with our staff Over 60 living Burlington, which is once again another area that we're quite proud of Also as we look at some of the benefits that provide our employees This is a topic of great discussion around how compensation works for employees. We take a very much a holistic view It's a combination of certainly wages But also general benefits and I know there are a number of conversations that are happening in the broader marketplace about the $15 wage We have a union environment And when we do prepare for negotiations We certainly refer to the joint fiscal office livable wage Statistics that we use as part of our negotiations And it's into that we offer a number of other benefits to employees Which we think provides that holistic approach something that we're very proud of and it is because of that We have such great continuity with our employees at the co-op Just recently in the last few weeks. We had employees that were celebrating their 20th year At the co-op who were actually in the same positions. They were 20 years ago And it was a wonderful story to think about how in this case mary mangas produce buyer Had really started at the co-op 20 years ago Buying produce and has since evolved with the organization so much so that she enjoys her job today To now certainly do produce buying in a much larger scale But something once again from our standpoint is very important and a testament to how Our employers are very satisfied working at the co-op You may also know that for the second year in a row We've been designated one of the best places to work in vermont When we did this survey a year ago for the first time Our intention wasn't necessary to receive the designation Our intention was to understand how we could improve And we just so happened to receive that designation something that we certainly were very happy about But that was not the main purpose nor goal This year, uh, so in actually december of 2017, we administered that same survey Now this is right after our southland expansion, which as you can imagine Was quite a significant lift for the co-op And we have once again received that designation of one of the best places to work in vermont Once again for us It's all about the learning on how we can continue to improve to make our work environment the co-op the best they can be In terms of how we support the community and Certainly a key focus area about how we provide healthy food access To the entire community and certainly focusing on those members and customers that are Using such resources as around the programs of three square vermont the equivalent of the food stamps program or wick And if we go to the next slide We reference them as part of our greater focus with food for all members These are members that are on some form of federally subsidized program And it's a number that we certainly track very closely They make up about 10 percent of our current membership And you have certainly asked in past about how we're continuing to allow and enable that healthy food access to those Who may be in slightly more difficult economic times This is really a testament once again to see you'll notice how In the last year we have really put an effort to continue to increase that contribution within our overall sales We've done this through a number of programs First of all, we offer a 10 percent discount for those who qualify under the food for all program We had also launched a Co-op basics program, which is an everyday low price program As of april two years ago, and we have increased the number of products that Qualify for those products and that I feel in combination has enabled more healthy food access for those Members who could use that healthy food most A member work another key member benefit To our 13 000 plus members I as you'll notice the number of hours that our members have volunteered throughout the year Of which over 90 percent is conducted Through our 23 non-profit partners, which you see listed to the right there Once again another way for us to contribute To support the community and when we did tally up the total number of member hours of over 15 000 that's the equivalent of approximately seven and a half full-time staff positions Another way we support the community is through our rally for change program Now this is really based on the generosity of our members and our customers that shop at the co-op up until really Last year we were generating Approximately 15 to 16 thousand dollars a month And that's the adding up of those quarters nickels pennies That you as customers and the community Donate When we ask whether or not customers or members would be interested in rounding up Half of that Rally for change amount every month Is designated To the chitin and emergency food shelf That's in line with our focus around food and security The other 50 percent is divided between a 10 percent non-profit partner and a 40 percent non-profit partner those two non-profit partners rotate every month While the 50 percent Partner in the food shelf remains consistent. And so when we looked at the last year in 2017 We tallyed up approximately 131 thousand dollars That went toward the food shelf's effort something once again. We were very proud of Another area is around our annual cuts tree sale You will probably maybe if you're in this store, especially In that late november early december time you will smell the fresh scent of pine all across the store We unload hundreds of trees to essentially Sell to our members and our customers and donate really the profits of that program to cuts And I don't think I need to say a whole lot more about cuts a phenomenal organization that does great work And this is just one way For us to also promote and support their work Certainly in terms of our patronage refund every year With members who have shopped at the co-op We generate a certain level of profit and a certain portion of that profit We return to the members Based on how much members have purchased at the co-op Now we will have certainly We have had a patronage refund check for the last financial year, but I will make a A quick caveat to say over the next Potentially up to six years We don't anticipate generating a patronage check This is due to the fact that because of the investment in the south end We won't return to profitability as the co-op Until in six years time now we hope certainly to get back to profitability sooner. And so This patronage check will not be coming We anticipate two members possibly during that period of time But obviously as members Just to highlight some of the other benefits that members do have including aside from the RO machine But the member volunteer work where if you volunteer two hours a month You get a seven percent discount Four hours a month you get a 12 percent discount on your purchases at the co-op And then certainly Every year When we do circulate those patronage refund checks a certain portion Is not cashed. We do have members who contact the co-op and ask us to donate that to a worthy cause We have other members who choose not to cash them and with that we are entering our fourth Co-op patronage ceiling grant that will take place next monday where the mayor And also secretary tebbets Will be joining us to present the grantees totaling approximately A little over 30 000 of what we consider to be the patronage ceiling grants But once again another way for us to take That money and invest it back in the community Also as referenced earlier in terms of the number of vermont local products that we offer We offer over 2800 and as mentioned earlier 40 percent of our sales is generated from local products Certainly Importantly, I know to the city is our taxes and fees I won't necessarily reference the numbers, but they've been increasing every year and certainly for the coming year With the South end expansion that number is also going to be increasing further as well Lastly in terms of expansion updates as all of you hopefully know and have possibly visited Granted I have a number of members who I've met at the downtown store and they say john We love your south end store and I said Have you visited said no we haven't but we found parking space in the downtown. We love it Um, that's a great compliment to hear and I am always amazed at how much people have complimented our parking space in the south end But needless to say Opening the south end store prior to thanksgiving was quite a challenging task Certainly from the national cooperative grocers association who partnered with us in our expansion They would never recommend To a co-op to open right before what we all know is the busiest certainly food holiday of the year And we did not necessarily choose that To begin with We had some delays, but we definitely wanted to open for thanksgiving And I can tell you that the opening once again with great support from the community Certainly the hard work from our staff and great support from the city and certainly the mayor and And all of you who are part of it certainly ward 5 city counselors We were open and we were able to open very smoothly We planned it to be a soft opening on november the 16th, but word spread very quickly It's amazing what digital technology can do And I'm very happy to say that as much as I've been approached and we've approached by members saying wow the downtown Feels just as busy Maybe a little less busy, but still busy, but the south end just has a different atmosphere a different vibe Is everything okay? It just feels a little too less busy than the downtown I'm happy to say that we are actually meeting and exceeding Our sales forecasts in the south end now remember we had anticipated the south end to be certainly a larger space And also to have possibly a different a different feel And One of the biggest challenges we did have opening the south end was finding enough staff to hire For that south end site with the hundred positions. We were looking to fill We were we probably were only able to open at around 50 a little over 50 strength That's a combination of low unemployment, which obviously is a very nice situation to have in many ways, but certainly makes it difficult when you're looking for Very capable employees and to some extent our pickiness And I think all of you appreciate that we really do treasure The cultural fit in addition to the text and technical expertise that staff bring to the co-op But in light of that we were able to open that store very smoothly We appreciated the patience for our members and customers because I know that we have set high expectations based on how we operate in the downtown And uh, here we are Over three months since we opened and things are just getting even better One of the things though we were slightly surprised that that we had expected a migration of about 20 percent Of the traffic and sales from the downtown to migrate to the south end Over let's say a three to four month period of time What has indeed happened is that that has migrated over almost instantly now We could anticipate that during the holidays because the south end was new That there would be great interest in it, but we thought that might slightly Settle in the early new year and there would be more of a gradual climb But the reality is that has not happened. It's really stated around 20 percent, which is once again A great situation to be in Um, the other is with regarding the old north end space now many of you may know That really uh over about a year and a half ago We secured a space in the old north end at 242 north venus gavenia um With the intention that we wanted to experience opening the south end store And possibly then looking at expanding into the old north end um Recognizing though in theory What it would take to open a south end store But the amount of time and effort and even now the settling And efforts required to really optimize the south end store in conjunction with the old north end We've made this very difficult decision that we will not be expanding Into the old north end at this time and we'll be exiting that lease We really wanted to be very mindful certainly fiscally But also as we look at our staff's capacity and as much as we have an incredible can do attitude We feel that there may be other services And ways that we can support not only old north end but the other parts of the community So with that I would just say stay tuned because we certainly do look to expand in the future It just may not necessarily be in the way that we have looked at before in a bricks and mortar style So with that really just wanting to share some of our progress Thank you as always for your tremendous support And i'm certainly open to questions. Thank you for that presentation. Mr. Tashira. We appreciate that And is there any comments or questions from the city council council shannon? Thank you acting president right Uh, and thank you john I just want to commend you for the leadership you have brought to this process and the opening of the store and I'm not sure that everybody is aware that We change we change the zoning to allow The south end store to open and the neighbors rightfully said that that zoning change brought in a use that Attracted more cars than probably Any other use we could think of and Coming to agreement with the working with the the immediate neighbors on the traffic issues was not Not easy and I so appreciate the way that you approached that calmly and respectfully and Really worked with them and at some expense some significant expense reworked your plans to accommodate them But every step of the way I just so admired how you handled yourself and how you spoke with the neighbors And consequently I I don't know about chip, but I will say I have not been hearing complaints In the neighborhood and that's not to say I'm sure there's an impact in the neighborhood and the neighbors understand that But it's really thanks to the way that you worked with them and the store has really been welcomed in the neighborhood And certainly I I'm I'm there a fair amount and appreciate all the services That are provided there and look forward to your grand opening hard to believe you haven't had a grand opening at this point Because it seems quite open, but Thank you very much I just want to say, you know, thank you so much to both counselor Shannon and zermason You know, I do want to also draw attention. I mean Allison is here with us today She did a tremendous amount of work around the community engagement So I really wanted to give her tremendous credit The city's support from the mayor. I know chape and I saw earlier From dpw I really think it was a concerted effort across all parties to really work together There were challenges along the way But I feel you know, it was really in the spirit of the co-op and I think in the spirit of how We want to work in partnership with the city and certainly with the neighborhood. So thank you all Thank you. Thank you. Councillor shannon. Councillor more Thank you acting president So It seems clear that we're we're a community that asks a lot, right? There is so much that that clearly the city market does and And we I think this body kind of required that of you in a lot of ways And and I know It still comes up to you That it is still A more expensive place for a lot of folks To shop myself included. Um, I certainly shopped there when I can and I love the Thursday bulk of days Anyway, um I am curious Back in the day, maybe a decade or two ago when I was in brattle borough at their co-op they would have this This store kind of next to the co-op their their former co-op And it had like the the seconds in a sense Which seemed like a really great creative way to offer some some products at a discounted price I'm curious if there's any other kind of thoughts out there because I mean when you do expand if it's into the old north end or into wanouski It would be great to offer something that would make it more affordable to some of the folks that that live there Thanks Thanks for that question. It's a question that does come up periodically probably less so these days, but in terms of having that access to healthy foods We recognize that there is a general perception out there about the co-op being more expensive and yes, we do offer a variety of products But we've really made quite an effort And I think you've seen it once again with our co-op basics program, which is an everyday low price program We have over 240 skews of products now that are available We've also Done for now quite a long time Many years in fact price comparisons For a number of what we call basic basket items With all the traditional retailers Food retailers really in the area And we have consistently come within anywhere from 6 to 10 percent And from a price standpoint and in some cases we actually offer better prices with some of our products So from that standpoint, we're continuing to put efforts in that and then certainly I'm glad you're appreciating the the thursday 10 percent of both Actually 10 percent of bulk all bulk items and then tuesdays is take care tuesdays 10 percent off all supplements as well And we are looking at actually for food for all members because they get a 10 percent discount on their purchase in general to possibly offer additional discounts Especially around produce and for bulk So we do have efforts that we are making there and that was based out of a survey That we conducted about a year and a half ago That has led us to look at that type of work. So I think as we move forward we certainly want to be accessible to all The people in the community And certainly being certainly very mindful of that price Perception that we have because we recognize that you know We need to continue to work at that and get that message out there that we are open and inaccessible How's that? Thank you councillor moore councillor mason and then councillor jeng. Thank you acting president, right? I'll echo the appreciation john analysis and for both the presentation and your presence in the south end Um, could john could you briefly talk about? The status of the sale on the of the second parcel in the south end just sort of an update and where that stands Yes, um, so we didn't make a press release about this Now probably about three to four months three to four weeks ago So we went through a very rigorous and comprehensive RFP a request for a proposal process that started last April may And a number of organizations applied for that. We went and then Uh, essentially took them through a bit of a matrix and assessed them I received presentations And went through a couple of rounds of presentations and we ultimately landed on a person sales agreement That we confirmed with petrocliffs Really in january of this year And once again, that's a person sales agreement. So the sale has not been finalized. There's a due diligence period That they will conduct that could be anywhere from six to potentially up to maybe nine months But it was really a very thorough process. We certainly had our board involved in that process as well And we really looked at it on a number of fronts Fit with the community how it complements certainly the mission of the co-op Price was one of many components of it Um and such so we took a very comprehensive look and that's where we landed and we really feel They did a phenomenal job In terms of painting their vision what they saw short term and longer term And certainly as a local business that is well respected in the community that promotes health and wellness I think for us we really felt that was a very nice fit. Thank you Thank you. Councilor mason. Councilor jane Thank you president right Yes, thank you so much for the presentation and thank you for being here and before I start I mean you did not include My program, you know the burlington school district, but since 2014 There isn't any request we made in terms of donation that you have and grant us So we want to thank you very much for that and also for Employing so many new americans, you know to learn from them and also to teach them, you know food safety and all of that But my question is more about The characteristics you used In having the second store in the new Old north end instead of new north end What were those elements? What were you looking for that the south end has that the new north end don't have Why the south end and instead of there and also I think it would be very important for you to consider a bike To shop program. So for example, if you bike with your helmet, you come in you get a five percent discount Just to encourage people to keep on walking to keep on biking Because we all connected and we all very close to each other and it in relation. It's also we know that the south end and Downtown they very close The two stores are very close when you compare to the new north end. So just wanted to Right. Thank you for that question As you can imagine when we were looking at expansion This has taken really quite a few years This even was really much before my time joining the co-op Where we recognized that with the amount of sales and traffic that the downtown store was generating That we viewed really needing to look at another location to be able to offset Some of that traffic from the downtown and this is a very rare situation to be in it's very rare Certainly within the co-op world But I think and with food retailers in general that you're looking to build another location to cannibalize Essentially the sales of your existing store, but this was indeed the case for the downtown. So it's a very unique situation in many respects And so when we looked at different locations and we conducted market studies that were done by experts We were able to identify After a number of different assessments This south end location And so sure enough We had developed a performer in terms of what and how much traffic would possibly migrate from the downtown to the south end And that has indeed been the case And we've also anticipated New traffic and sales coming to the south end as well We have looked at other locations in past Um Including the old north end winooski and others even places well beyond burlington And we'll continue to do that But for the time being really our utmost priority was really how to offset The traffic from the downtown and the south end really was the right fit And at the same time a parcel of land did come up that we could Actually be able to work with and ultimately purchase And I'll certainly to your second point take into consideration You know the thought about bicycle benefits. We do offer bicycle benefits to our staff Um in the same way that we offer free bus passes to our staff to commute To to work with either location And with the south end we have developed 75 Bicycle parking spaces, which I know exceeds. I think the initial limit that The city had set out As a way for us to demonstrate how we also want to be indeed sustainable And on that note Two very final comments if there weren't any one is I don't know if all of you are aware But we rarely talk about the sustainable efforts that we make at the co-op But case in point For the south end in addition to the fact that it took us about three times as much financially to clean up the parcel of land it was a very toxic site and and um Because of that we could have done the bare minimum But as the co-op you can imagine that we really wanted to do it in the right way So hand on heart there is no cleaner site really than the south end And by the same token because of that we did receive the governor's environmental award last year once again You know, we appreciate that but the point was that we would we really wanted to make sure that it was a safe environment for the community For many years to come And then the second thing is just to say that Councillor Shannon talked about the grand opening We did have a ribbon cutting certainly at the end of last year. It's the mayor so currently Was part of we are planning a grand opening on May the 12th So please do mark that in your calendars. We'd very much like to see all of you there once again It's a celebration for the community And we hope to make it a really fun Big essential block party in partnership with the likes of citizen sider and so Thank you councillor jang. Mr. Mayor great. Thank you. I can present a right John I just wanted to say thank you for being here to make this in the report and Echo the appreciation of my colleagues for What a great partner the co-op is in so many ways Um the You know this project had the added challenge of having to be designed Not just to work with the existing infrastructure and streets there there now, but also with the anticipated You know relatively near-term arrival of the champlain parkway that added extra challenges here and It was also I think exciting that that long plan changes is getting to the point where it's real and something We're working working through together your sustainability efforts are also very much appreciated You know you didn't even really get into some of the features of the new store that are so unique and and exceptional in terms of bringing down the Climate impact of of the new store and I think very much models what you know The city is striving to achieve and its net zero energy city Goals and then another thing there's just think that came out in this report that is always striking about the way the co-op operates is the focus on metrics and being you know really Working hard to measure the public value the community value that's being created by by the organization and It's always just you know from the first time Clem nylon years ago kind of walked me through that to today Really appreciated that aspect of the co-op's culture. It does raise one question that I was hoping you can answer quickly I was just a little surprised to see and hadn't Somehow internalized from your past presentations that the three squares from on and with redemption numbers have fallen quite significantly from At least the recent peak in 2013 almost 30 percent down below that. I'm just wondering what you what you Why you think that is So that's a great question and thank you for that From our standpoint Part of it is relative With federal grants really drying up We I think we're very much At a peak back in 2013 But as the grants have slowly diminished We have struggled to sort of keep pace Not because that we haven't put in efforts in but because Our impact at that point was so was so strong And that's why that we have moved to introducing other programs to try to bring That contribution back up to similar levels and we'll continue to do that But that's really one of the key reasons that we have seen because from a Service standpoint, whether it be the co-op basics program whether introducing these additional discount days that we offer and certainly Planned efforts to offer additional discounts In addition to the ongoing 10 percent discount that food for all members receive You know will we would just like to continue to monitor that and we certainly seen an increase in the number of food for all members Overall, which is once again a good sign For us and that we're headed in the right direction And I also did want to also thank the mayor for reminding me because there are you know I could go on for for quite a while about some of the different aspects of the south end store We do have the first ever trans critical co2 refrigeration system in vermont This means that essentially the refrigeration unit is powered by co2 The technology is proven. It's in Europe places of Europe and in other states, but never in vermont We made the investment At the very onset because we want to set a precedence for other food retailers To follow And so we hope that is the case. We also have a wonderful teaching kitchen So if you haven't taken a class at the co-op, we offer over 70 a year They've been selling out very quickly And then also we have a community space Something that based on the conversations and many conversations that we had with the community That came up as a consistent want for the community and so we developed one which you can preserve For use so once again just some different aspects of the south end which we hope to you will enjoy in the future Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Mayor Thank you, mr. Tashiro for that presentation. We appreciate and we appreciate the Actually gave us all thank you so much With that concludes that presentation on item number three. We will move in we're about 20 minutes late on the public forum. My apologies So we will get right into item number four public comment period And i'll call your name up and you have three minutes To speak there is a time system there in front of you that that alerts you when you're near the end The yellow light the red light tells you your time is up and you need to conclude your remarks Please make sure you speak right into the microphone so everyone can hear you And the council was criticized recently in the free press and an editorial by Someone that didn't appear. We were listening. So let's all just let me remind everyone on the council to just make sure that we are listening to the public and and We appreciate hearing any any comments you have for us tonight and just ask that it's done respectfully So we'll start out with Eileen andriel Is our first speaker To be followed by Doug Lazarus Good evening miss andriel welcome Thank you Good evening um, I'd first like to acknowledge the results of last Tuesday's town meeting where 55 percent Of the voters in burlington voted with their heads and their hearts And supported article six I hope this city council will do its due diligence To uphold the mandate from the people of burlington who asked for The cancellation of the f-35 mission And requested a quieter safer mission for our air national guard that does not harm its neighbors or their children I understand that you were to receive a presentation tonight Honoring the new navy fast transport ship named for the city of burlington Please note that this new ship that honors burlington is designed for amphibious landings And troop transports or to perform humanitarian missions These are the same kinds of missions that the voters of burlington strongly support for our air national guard and that aligns more closely with our vermont values Than the f-35 first strike Stealth bomber fighter jet whose primary mission will be to bomb structures and people of sovereign nations in foreign lands I hope you will fulfill the wishes of the voters of burlington for a mission that our vermont air national guard That they can truly support and that Restores their support for our guard. Thank you Thank you very much doug lazaris Lazarus, thank you to be followed by charl charlotte denett. Good evening and welcome My coming here tonight has to do with my interest in Pull the microphone in please a little closer closer to me. Is this good? Yes. Okay. My coming here tonight reflects my interest in The possible different futures that lay waiting for the mural on church street I'm an artist a filmmaker and a bit of a historian. I did the bicentennial publication for the state of vermont back in 91 I've been aware of the mural for years I never thought of the mural as representing vermont history. I thought it was kind of a church street phenomenon I think that what's been sort of brought out now is that it does seem to Have morphed in consciousness to a representation of the state's history and not just church streets history or even burlington's history My personal problems with the mural I have to do with The historicity of the mural it does not actually include Things that are in people that are significant to the history of the state It also does not Present the contributions of non-white Vermonters To any great degree I I did some preliminary research found that the first vermont woman the first black woman poet in america Was a vermont here back in the 1790s. She was born in the 1790s and so People began coming coming to me out of my research and I realized that the mural Did not have to deal with tokenism, but actual important historical figures If it is to represent vermont I am not in favor of the idea of taking the mural down in its entirety and replacing it be very expensive to do that and I believe it also would be Provocative to people who feel that Doing that would be A statement that goes beyond the mural to To the issue of political correctness, which to certain individuals Even in vermont Is threatening to them I think that what I would like to see is that the mural be viewed as a work in progress That our consciousness has evolved since it went into position And that by the addition of probably a dozen or so figures The mural could be altered So that it would be making a Whoops, I guess that's it you can finish yours Okay, it would be altered so that statement would would be inclusive of both historical material And and a balance of the contribution of non-white vermonters Thank you very much Charlotte Dennett To be followed by donna walters Good evening miss Dennett welcome This time I come as Someone who had the great privilege of studying art history in Florence, Italy The the great city of the renaissance. So when I first heard about To destroy the mural I I was shocked And hit me right in the gut as someone Who appreciates art as history and as a reflection of the times when people lived and created It is a window into a civilization at that particular period And I just wanted to give you a couple of examples I decided to look up in some of my old art books some parades and I have here A painting a Samaritan art dating back to 2290 bc I think I'll just show it to you real briefly Do you want to pass that around only because when you leave the microphone channel 17 loses you In terms of the volume Thank you And they were bringing tribute and the interesting thing is there's a picture in there that shows that one of the porters is scowling Did the artist think he could he or she could get away with putting that Into the mural I don't know but it tells us something about the times Then we come to the time of the Medici in Florence And there's this wonderful portrait called My voice is loud enough It's called the adoration of the mad But the problem is miss denna is it's loud enough for us But we have viewers on channel 17 that lose you and they can't hear Well, it's important that so Yeah, we're gonna We need that for channel 17 especially They'll pick up if you hold that up they'll zero in on it, too All right, this was done in the 15th century. It was in Florence And what's new about this is you no longer have kings you have noble Well, they're not even noblemen. They're bankers. This is the beginning of capitalism. It starts in Florence And there's a great great artistic Blossoming at the time But what's interesting is that you're seeing a melding of a religious theme the adoration of the magi And you've got the nobles presented visiting The virgin Mary so they're interjecting the point is This tells us a lot about the sign the times and the and the Medici Are pictured In just as people are pictured in the mural now come up to present It's much more representative Uh used to be improved. I I concur with the previous speaker one other last thing. I found a uh an article called Talk about don't hide public art and in this case There was a furor in the elgin illinois about a mural that people liked just showed white people In it in a town and then they found out it was taken from a picture of a lynching So it changed the whole dimension and what ultimately here's the end what ultimately got decided was that um a committee was formed Elgin cultural arts commission Which um will decide the fate of the mural and they say the purpose is to engage the community in an ongoing Conversation about the history of racial violence. So that's what we should do. Thank you miss that. Thank you. Appreciate Donna walters is up next To be followed by monique fortum Good evening and welcome. Thank you. I represent uh keep the park green And we have we are the people that taped all the trees in the park So I encourage people if you haven't had a chance to take a walk or drive by The park in the last three weeks to please do so It's not an easter egg hunt Every tree that is wrapped in brightly colored tape is one of the trees that will be cut down um If the plan for city hall that's under review right now city hall park Um is approved So I just want you to imagine what it's going to feel like walking through there and those are all stomps and um I want to appeal to the city council to Take you voted on this uh to approve this back in september And I'd like to encourage you to take another look at it because the plan has changed and morphed since then there's new information that's um been brought forward that's uh informing Can be informative and I think you should take a look at it one of the things in particular is a shade study that the um Requested and it pretty much shows that on the hardscape area where people would be sitting on benches On stone walls or movable tables and chairs There's hardly any shade at all is a tiny bit of shade But hardly any shade at all between noon and 4 p.m. Pretty much the peak times when people want to be um escaping the hot The hot hardscape on church street and they want to escape into the shade of the park and eat their lunch We also visited um Decker towers and three cathedrals square to talk to senior citizens that lived there within walking distance of the park We showed them this shade study and asked them there what they thought about it and um pretty much what they had to say was they want to sit on wooden benches That have back support that are along the the walkways not on the grass, but along the walkways in the shade so I would just encourage you to take another look at what is um slated to be approved and um The other thing that you didn't know when you folks made your approval decision was A number a definitive number of how many trees would actually be cut down And we know that number now and people are shocked. They're just shocked And you may be shocked too. So please take a walk through the park and see how you feel All right. Thank you. Ms. Walters Next up monique fortum to be followed by carol and baits. Welcome miss fortum. Thank you Will you let me in to eat into my time for just a second to say I came a little bit late And then when I saw that you all had little goodie bags, I thought like maybe like opera I would look under my bag and under my seat and there would be one, but there was I had my hopes up there for a second. Um, thank you. Um, uh council, thank you for for hearing us today I'm onique fortum from keep the park green As you probably know, we've been working for the last month from the time that we first received the actual tree study of how many trees were scheduled to be cut down We've been working to raise public awareness about this because we know that there would be an outcry And we were right and in a very small amount of time The drb, which was reviewing it received over 180 emails from concerned people In addition to at least 50 people coming to speak on very short notice And at a time which is usually extremely inconvenient for people to attend because it starts at five When most people are just getting out of work and going home to make dinner so I think that in this very short amount of time and Once we had put the ribbons on the trees to really show the full effect of the plan People i'm sure some of your constituents have reached out to you and were really really upset about this And did not feel that there was adequate consent consensus members of keep the park green attended 19 Of the public planning meetings and we were never given a straight answer about how many trees were going to be cut We were never given that personally. We actually just found the plan by looking on the drb website Under a button that said coming soon, which in most cases would indicate there was nothing there That is how we we obtained their tree study And in our interactions with the drb It became clear that what I would call there was impermissible segmentation Of the trees in the park and the 22 were not studied So the total amount that people were told was going to remain 24 Did not factor in the opinions that the previous arborists had already said seven of these non Assessed trees would also need to come down That's a total of 39 trees to come down And in addition to that we've just requested the staging maps for when they bring in heavy machinery And one of the members of the design team in one of the second drb meeting had made a comment that some other trees Would need to come down to accommodate the staging areas, which would mean even more trees would come down So um, although it's clear that the drb is going to approve this based on the very narrow criteria We're going to continue to raise public awareness about this because we don't think that your constituents are going to be happy With this plan and as miss walters stated We don't believe that when you voted on the plan that you had all the information in front of you That your constituents may care about So I think that we can find a compromise. We're certainly not against taking down Sick trees that cannot be Treated and mitigated in some way, but we think that we could work together for a better plan. Thank you Thank you, miss vortem Carolyn Bates up next to be followed by wane senville Welcome miss Bates. We need you on the mic We'll pass it around but we need you on the mic welcome Welcome everyone and thank you very much. I'm caroline bates. I've been a resident here since 1973 and I started working here in 1971 So I was in city hall park before they took out all the benches and the homeless and I slept on those benches I was even homeless for about a year um But anyway, we're in the city hall park design on par to keep the Keep the park green And I find that we just all voted To help climate change to reduce it in this city And I pretty sure the mayor is very proud to have that within our city But we want to take out more than half of the trees in city hall park I mean, I have now taken out all the grass in my little 18th of an acre land to try to help climate change I think we should in the city as well. Do you know trees help reduce air pollution? They reduce uv light because you're in the shade And the biggest operation in the in the nation every year is for cataracts and uv lights Causes those and cancer It also cools the park all day and then at night the cooling air goes into the surrounding neighborhood The trees sequester carbon And we don't want any more carbon in our co2 in our air dewy I think it's very important that each and every one of you walk that park more than once and see What's happening how many trees are really being taken down and think of the size of their canopy I can't even put my arms around some of those trees and they're going to replace them with trees They're the size of my ankle Okay, I measured it what I have here. I've done a lot of Taking their designs and trying to make them understandable because they're only in black and white illustration So you have to read between the lines to find out what's going on And this particular one, I don't have enough for all of you right now But that is showing you the hardscape at four o'clock In june, which is and on the top one you will see That there's very little hardscape showing also the hardscape is only 25 of the park Not a third of the park, which is the bottom plan and that's their plan and you can see It's hot on the fourth 4 p.m This other one I'm showing you Shows you the trees that initially we figured We're going to be removed. We found more And also on the bottom is the 2012 survey that everyone keeps talking about being robust And you'll notice that only five people wanted last shade in that park So I don't think that's being followed at all So I ask you I plead with you to let this be wide open like the public come back like they did last august And have a public display of what the new design is. It was changed march 7th of this year Come on get the public out And revoke. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you miss baits Wayne senville to be followed by james lee's Good evening and welcome. Mr. Senville Mayor Weinberger and members of the council Even though it's not on your agenda tonight. I also am here to speak about the proposed city hall park plans It's recently gone through uh, two drb hearings As some of you may know, I had the honor and privilege Of serving on the planning commission for some 11 years and on the drb For two years in all the time that I was on those two bodies I've had on any other project. I haven't seen as many people come out opposed to a plan And that includes there are more people at the drb hearings and we're at the for example the downtown wall redevelopment project People were passionate And they made really perceptive comments, especially about the massive tree removal I mean it goes without saying that city hall park is Probably the most important public space in this at least in downtown probably in the city And the main issue that's coming up is just the dramatic extent To which trees are going to be removed Many to meet the program needs of the new park plan Of the plan's call for removing over 60 of the trees now there in one fell swoop It's going to be almost like a clear cutting of the park Of our of our central park uh Also for me, I also have concerns about the removal of the historic fountain feature They're replacing it by a series of water jets I haven't heard any comments by the Planners about what's going to happen during the six seven eight months of the year when the water jets are not in operation It's on this massive Pave surface I just don't understand it I've had to do some fundraising recently for a nonprofit and you have to give people the ask So the ask I want to give to you is come up with a way to reexamine this To reopen the process I think there's room for compromise on both sides, but I think both sides need to get involved There's new information that's come up as the previous speakers have said And I think what we're asking for is for you to develop some strategy To have a fresh look at what's in place before we go down this route. Thank you All right. Thank you. Mr. Sanville James Lee's to be followed by steve marshal our final speaker Mr. Lee's welcome Thank you very much So the vote for ballot item six On march 6th was not just a victory for thousands of families in the flight path It was also actually a victory for the men and women of the mermont Guard More than a thousand children will be spared the intense noise of the f-35 That burlington's own board of health reported causes delayed reading and impaired memory and concentration Elderly will be spared A cause of heart disease and stroke as also identified by burlington's own board of health And the men and women of the vermont air national guard Will have a new mission that does not put them in the position of harming neighboring children And elderly and that allows them to avoid contradicting their own announced mission to protect The citizens of vermont It will also be a victory for vermont's storied Town meeting form of democracy that goes all the way back to 1777 if this council respects the will of the electorate By requesting that the air force cancel the f-35 at burlington and provide alternative equipment For the vermont air national guard that's low noise and has a high safety record I'm delighted that councillor jong shannon Put forward such a resolution Her resolution is consistent with the requirements of article six And article 20 of the vermont constitution That provide the town meeting is when the people instruct their representatives And that elected officials are trustees and servants of the people I hope the resolution will remain as written And will receive broad support From councillors and the mayor. Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Lees Our final speaker tonight is steve marshall. Welcome mr. Marshall Thank you very much mr. Wright And thank you council Thank you very much for considering the resolutions and ordinance changes which Will have an impact on Not just the homeless community but also on A lot of other poor people and tourists I take it you're I guess i'm i'm told that you're you to anticipate That you will be passing these resolutions and ordinance changes Which I fully support and i'm very very grateful um I'm going to take the rest of my time or part of it who's changed the subject I would like to say About the f 35 The world is a crazy and mean place We are seeing shootings in schools I do believe we are not talking about arming teachers here in vermont Because we do not believe that Making schools less safe We don't want to make them war zones And in this very same way I'm adamantly opposed to bringing the f 35 to burlington and to vermont because I do not want to make the world less safe by supporting the existence of these planes I would ask you to demand A safe mission a mission that contributes to the safety of the world And is not one Based in a loud dangerous machine Finally the thought was I guess i'm going to have to leave it there because I went blank. Thank you very much Happens to us all mr. Marshall. Thank you very much that concludes tonight's public forum That's item number four we will move on to item number five the consent agenda for tonight And I will recognize council roof. Yes, I'll move to amend it adopt the consent agenda taking the actions as indicated Seconded by councilor busher Any discussion All those in favor of approving and taking the action is indicated by the consent agenda tonight. Please say aye. Aye Any opposed passes unanimously and we have approved tonight's slate of consent agenda items um, we will now recess the regular city council meeting and go to the Board of civil authority with the mayor presiding mr. Mayor Thank you acting president right. Uh, let me call on to session the board of civil authority At 8 20 p.m. The first item is the agenda. Are there any changes to the agenda? It's not accept the motion to accept the agenda as presented Thank you councilor busher seconded by councilor mason Any discussion of the motion? All those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? The eyes have it unanimously the next item Is the consent agenda is there a motion to accept the consent agenda and take the action indicated So moved Thank you. Actually in president right seconded by councilor busher discussion We'll go to a vote all those in favor of the motion. Please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously and um The board of civil authority without objection is adjourned At 8 20 p.m. Thank you mr. Mayor and we will now convene the local control commission meeting Item number one is the agenda and I will go to the chair of the local control commission councillor dean Thank you acting president right. I'd like to move the adoption of the agenda Moved by councillor dean seconded by councillor jang any discussion We all in favor of approving that agenda Say aye. Aye. Opposed? We have the agenda councillor dean So now we move to our consent agenda I'd like to move The adoption of the consent agenda taking the actions as indicated But seconded by council roof All those in favor any discussion all those in favor of approving that consent agenda please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? We have our consent agenda Okay approved Move to item 3.01. I'd like to move the approval of the 2017 2018 first class restaurant bar liquor license application for knee to bakery 295 north winooski avenue 112 c with all standard conditions Moved by councillor dean seconded by council roof discussion Seeing none all those in favor of approval. Please say aye Aye Any opposed? That passes unanimously move to item 3.02 councillor dean I'd like to move the approval of the 2017 2018 outside consumption application for the friendly toast 86 st. Paul street I moved and now seconded by commissioner roof Any discussion commissioner busher? Um, it's my regular question So Was there any process? I'm not sure if there are any residential units around there But were there was there a process to leaflet or include comments from the neighborhood? Or surrounding businesses regarding the 8 a.m. To 2 a.m outside permit and Could you just share it? Sorry president right may I ask if the Chair of the committee could share any comments that were I will recognize the chair to Councilor commissioner dean to respond There was not a process To leaflet or ask adjacent neighbors to the To this location It is in a very commercial location just across there. There are very few Residential units that would be directly adjacent to this to this this new outside area so We felt as though, you know, it's it's a A responsible operator someone who has multiple restaurants in other states as well He has experience doing this And that it's a relatively small area that has in the past Hosted with previous restaurants located in that location has hosted outside area consumption before we felt as though it was responsible to support the application Okay Thank you. I just wanted to make clear that I didn't expect the committee to leaflet I expect the applicant so just so you understand. Thank you. Thank you commissioner commissioner busher commissioner hartnett How many can I adjust the chair as well? You can ask a question. Yeah, thanks council. I appreciate that um How many seats are we talking? As i'm looking at the application here, I believe there are Well, they're they're in the region of 20 seats 20 seats. Yeah, 19 to 20 seats three six One two 29. Okay. All right. Thank you commissioner hartnett Commissioner mason May I also ask permission to ask a brief question of the chair? You may proceed? Um Sort of falling on the same line, you know, I feel like these guys all come in and ask for the most You know, I appreciate friday saturday nights 2 a.m You know might be expected living in downtown, but I do share some concern that the Two o'clock seven days a week there are a number of you know, there are four condos at 76 st. Paul street There are a number of you know apartments Along bank I could see if it were really intending to do seven nights a week and my guess is they're not You know, but most applicants come in and ask for the most Um, you know rather than what they actually project in terms of hours So I don't know if there was any discussion with the applicant about whether they really needed You know 2 a.m. Seven days a week We encourage the applicants to think broadly about what their needs will be And and so uh, we did not have an objection During our discussions as to what they had proposed. It's consistent with many of the other businesses that are in that area I would uh Ask one of my You know co-committee members Commission members whether he recalls anything that was um out of the you know, if that's possible That I could be able to recognize it. We'll cede the floor to council roof commission roof On this if I believe actually they came in and they asked for very little And as has become common practice in committee we invite them to like Charity said to think a little bit more broadly Especially when there are nearby adjacent businesses that are doing the same type of operations such as in this case from up problem brewery Or across the by the on the Further down st. Paul that stripped there with american flatbread with this one again responsible Responsible tenant prior applicants had had more expansive times and what they were offering I think was bluebird deli at one point Um, and so at that point we we felt as though these times were We're open the last thing I'll say is as also has been common practice Unless there is a reason to be restrictive. We tend to be Granting in the outset and then if problems arise we latch down Was that councilor mason commissioner mason? Yeah, I mean it's I have a philosophical philosophical difference with that, but I'll that's not relevant to this application Okay, thank you. Uh commissioner shannon I will also voice that I have a philosophical difference with that I I think that we should be asking applicants to be realistic Not expand their horizons to Um, you know the most that they could possibly do and I think that Um It perhaps can invite problems where there don't need to be problems So I would ask the committee to reconsider that General philosophy, but we'll go forward with this application. Thank you Thank you commissioner shannon Anyone else wish to be recognized? Mr chairman, I'll just say that I appreciate the input from both counselors Shannon and and mason, um, and I would uh like to invite them to contact me Uh to give me a little more guidance about what they feel the appropriate questions to be asked And policies that we should be implementing Great, all right With that we I think are ready for a vote all those in favor of this item 3.02. Please say I I any opposed no Commissioner hartnett is a no vote Uh, so it is unanimous Minus one and that's I think we have I think we have uh, how many counselors do we have? It looks like it's a nine to one vote in favor Um Okay, so I think that completes the agenda. Is there so Okay, nation motion to adjourn Motion moved to adjourn seconded by council roof. All those in favor, please say I I that meeting is adjourned and we will now convene one more meeting Which is the meeting of the full board of tax abatement committee And I will recognize the chair of the committee Councilor mason for item number one the agenda. Thank you I'd like to make a motion to amend adopt the agenda as follows note corrected decision letters for agenda items 3.01 and 3.02 per city assessor's office Amended agenda has been presented any second by that for that Seconded by council roof Any discussion all those in favor of the amended agenda, please say I I any opposed If I could hear that again, I only heard about two eyes any all those in favor of that, please say I I Thank you Councilor mason next is the consent agenda I'd like to make a motion to adopt the agenda as presented taking the action point of order council shannon Um, doesn't the mayor run this meeting? Good point council shannon Turn it over to mr. Mayor. Yes, the mayor does run the board of tax abatement. I mean you should have you should have broke in Mr. Mayor I'm happy to be here now So um And I appreciate we have the agenda adopted, right? Fortunately, all we've done is taken one little action So that's all yours. So the next the next item is the consent agenda Is there a motion to accept the consent agenda and consent agenda and take the action indicated? So moved Second Any discussion of the consent agenda? All those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Hi. I oppose Motion carries unanimously and that brings us to The deliberative agenda and item 3.01 which is a request for abatement of taxes Uh for 27 ivy lean The crane kaplan revocable trust Are we ready for a motion on this item? Sure, I would like to make a motion to deny The request and ask for the floor back if there's a second to explain why No second second by Councillor busher and back to you Thank you. Um, this is a request for an abatement of 69 dollars and 78 cents Um, the facts in this are that the homeowner basically paid off his mortgage Um taxes and insurance were being escrowed as such they were not escrowed So he basically was late in paying his taxes as a matter of policy Before this board we have taken the position that you know absent some error by the city Pretty much everyone comes in with a reason why they didn't pay Um, but we have taken a pretty firm position in the past That absent some error by the city or one of the other statutory reasons the simple fact that you didn't pay was not a basis to abate At the time this was heard before the subcommittee was just there were two of us Councillor jang and myself and we just we were unable to reach an agreement on this one. Thank you Floors open for discussion Councillor jang Yes, um, so I mean I I would like for us to grant this Request of tax abatement knowing that this is not a lot of money 69 dollars and it took a lot of time going back for for this individual who never missed a payment and like consular um Mason just stated This was an error and the error was not in our part. It was in the part of the city if I get this right all right, um, and For those reasons and for an individual who paid his mortgage who been doing extremely very well in responding to paying his taxes on time and for this amount of Just taxes that does not have any It's not major. It's very minimal and just the time that he took to come here to go back to also Most importantly Was the only person on that day who showed up and stayed waited for at least two hours For just 69 dollars So I believe that it is very important for us sometime to take things Based on the stories based also on I mean The history of that individual And this small request I feel like it is important for us to grant the 69 dollars Tax abatement for this individual Thank you Councillor busher So I just wanted to speak in support of the motion to deny I think that um You know every taxpayer has a reason that Makes sense. I'm not saying that it's unfortunate what happened to this individual But I think that it's not the dollar amount because it's not whether this is a lot of money or a little money It's about the process that we uphold in the city and how we consistently Apply this to everybody Um, and I do believe that we have criteria And this didn't rise to that level. It was not an error that the city made It was unfortunate what happened. And so I I feel for the individual Um You know, um, anyways, uh I've my taxes were late once because I was at a city council meeting and forgot to turn in my check And it's lasted till after midnight and there you go Um, so, you know, that was a human error. So things happen things happen But I believe that I have to be fair to everyone That in the past came forward with a story that was had Had reason and rationale, but still we applied those same criteria And I want people in the future to know that we will be consistent that we won't just say well in this case We we feel for you and we are going to grant that I I just don't think that's okay That is not consistent and nor is it fair and I need to be fair to all taxpayers. Thank you Um, I just wanted to uh to sympathize with counselor jeng's position and share that when I first uh Came on to the council. I was appointed to the tax abatement committee with counselor ellis counselor rust ellis And counselor ellis and I both shared Counselor jeng's sympathy for the taxpayers in these type of situations and we went through a whole we went through Our whole and I forget the third person was it might have been councilor ellis at that time Uh, and it was two to one on every decision and we granted all of these tax abatements And we came back to this board granting all the abatements and the rest of the council then Knowing the history that counselor busher just described overturned each and every one of our Decisions and there was virtually no consent agenda Because the two of us did not agree with the full board We were then removed from the tax abatement committee because obviously the committee could not function and deliver um the answers that the majority of the full body wanted and um Yes, so so both of us could not serve And over the years I have come to terms with the fact that it simply is is fair To all the taxpayers to take the hard line that we have taken and I actually went through and researched who had Who you know if a taxpayer had ever had a late payment on the whole list? I was very energetic at the time um But I do think that it's fair and we need to be consistent in order to be fair not to just one taxpayer But to all of the taxpayers and I will Support the motion Okay for the discussing council mason. I just I'm sorry. I want to skip. I'm not sure whether the homeowner is here If and I want to extend that opportunity. Yes Please I thought I recognized you. Um Please come up mr. My apologies for not doing that first Thank you So sir, I would just ask you to identify yourself for the record and michael crane. I'm at 21 ivy lane not 27 and uh I brought my daughter here from uh taken some time out from her high school Homework to learn about her local city government you know, I uh I paid my taxes every payment consistently for 19 years And I ended up missing a payment because uh the escrow stopped because I paid off my mortgage And then uh, I was I needed to Get the mortgage I get the escrow payment out of escrow to make the payment by the time I did that I missed one payment and then I and I put it back into I'll put it back into uh automatic payment so it'll never happen again so I understand that um, you have a policy but If you're going to deny me based on Based on a uh on an administrative rule Then why did you have me here? And why did you have why did you have a hearing? Let me let me explain the process the payment was missed almost two years ago I received I've been going back and forth with uh emails with the department Since august 2017 They've made me Fill out a form which was the wrong one made me fill out a second form Which had to I needed to collect Three years of tax payments, which you already have So I had to get it from them from the department Make a photocopy Get my tax bill from from you Make a photocopy And get my assessor records From the people i'm appealing from which you already have Make a photocopy fill out a form send it back and then I sit before before a board At which point I finally discover That you don't have the authority to make the decision And the only time I get this the only time I get to actually be heard is now Which is a bit overkill You know, I thought the the hearing was overkill. I sat before four paid staff employees And two elected officials Um I would think that penalties That I'm trying to appeal here.  It's imposed to Prevent abuse of a system I didn't abuse the system I never missed a payment And and this is this the city government that I work for So harsh that you You no matter what there is no Discretion isn't that what a hearing is all about to apply discretion If you go over the speed limit and you've never had a prior Don't you get uh, don't you get off? Don't you get to appear before a judge and doesn't the judge get to say hey Sorry, you went over the speed limit five miles an hour too bad no I even even a payment even um my parking permit The the city of burlington You know, uh, I paid the I paid the thing on this little silly little app you got And didn't work I showed them that it worked that I actually made the payment Through an email. It was all taken care of my my uh, my penalty got abated It these examples of being abated I mean, this is a this is a penalty that we're talking about Not a Not a You know a tax assessment It's I'm a I'm I'm protesting your enforcement process This has been going on for over a year This is ridiculous and now I have to appear before you all I mean if you were never going to appear if you're never going to um, uh Allow me to appear I mean I would never going to affirm this because of a an administrative rule Then this never needed to happen I mean is this is a this is a city government I mean I I sat on city boards. I paid my taxes I volunteered on the same boards that you sit on On the electric commission on the cdbg commission on the ward for planning commission My family goes out and tries to raise money for local nonprofits We are citizens here And you're going to look at me and say too damn bad.  This is the city government that I work for Is it really? This is the city government that I pay taxes to That's how you're going to be and then the same city government's going to turn around and ask me to do things sit on a board pay Pay to contribute towards the city arts department Go to cleanup day green up day Clean up my clean up my park And that's how you're going to treat me I would ask you to reconsider This is a penalty not an assessment Thank you, mr. Crane councillor shannon um I hear mr. Crane's points and I wanted to Check how the process works when he referenced the forms that he has to fill out in order to appeal these taxes and On those forms does it give the reasons it's it's not actually An administrative policy it's state law the reasons that we can abate Taxes and is that in the forms that he fills out is that on the form? Yeah, the forms Towards the bottom of the form state the three criteria that Is outlined for them One one pause that I have about this is I'm having trouble hearing you mr. Vickery. I'm sorry Um, okay, can you hear me better now? The form does lay out the three criteria is manifestly unjust, uncollectable or illegal And there is other information on the website Well, one of the things that I have thought about listening to this gentleman is that maybe Everyone that makes a request should have some type of manual as to What past practice has been so they don't go through all the process if they know that it's They'll weigh their case And they'll have more information and maybe that would be helpful Yeah, I think that um I appreciate that mr. Crane's view is that our Board is is harsh Um, but it has been a long Standing policy of the board to try and be consistent, which is I think what? Is being interpreted as harsh though we do value consistency and What is quite unfortunate is the amount of time and effort that you have put into This process with the belief that You're coming to us with a reasonable request and that we have the the flexibility to grant that So I think that that I would appreciate A second look at that process in In light of the comments I'm sorry that it it hasn't changed my opinion of the appropriate way for For myself to vote and and I hope for the rest of the board to be consistent with past practice Thank you Council hardening thank you I was like I'm following this a little bit. So is there any Recent history of any of the Maybe like the same occurrence with escrow and not in paying off a mortgage. I mean, this is this is this has got to happen Before in the past hasn't it in a sense that we've had this it sounds like it it might have Our regular, you know, not a regular basis, but certainly it's had to happen before in the past Any remembrance of any other cases or? No, but I can certainly look at that the the history I know that we wrote a manual with cases that are related to late payments and how the Previous boards have ruled. We can look at that as well Regarding the escrow ending and the payoff and then No, but they're all very similar, but they're all slightly different I can appreciate I started on the Avainment board a few years and I I think one of the most important thing is to be consistent and consistent can be harsh I get that and I too learn I think Some valuable lessons when I sat on that board And And and have a tremendous amount of respect for both counselors that serve on the board but Really see it as I think it's more important that we do stay consistent and I think that's hard to do But I think it's the fair thing to do. So I'm going to Agree with the assessment of the late penalty Councillor jane. Thank you, mayor Mr. Crane, I just wanted to also I mean remind you that I mean Usually it doesn't come this way, you know, we take care of it at the tax abatement and We take care of it there and we move on I mean, this is just specific because the third member of that board wasn't there So there were one that said yes one that said no reason why we invited you here And what I want to say again is thank you for bringing your your your your family your child And also for all the Commitment to the city that you have been doing basically paying your taxis and Volunteering to commissions and all of that and I think that is really important to keep on doing it But do not just let this You know remind you that we all trying to do our best and these agreements are welcome But what I value the most is your commitment to the city and the great things you've been doing since then Thank you Council hardening and are there any other councillors who wish to be in the queue? Council harden it I just want to chime in on the process a little bit and I understand I think councillor dain is what councillor dain is saying is that Usually you have a decision made at that process, you know by by by three councillors But that doesn't take your way of right of coming in front of the full council And that's where you you are correct, mr. Crane The final decision is made at this and this council and so You have a clearer outcome or a clearer picture when you have three city councillors on that committee I think would be fair to say but I do think that you have it right with your assessment when you say That I never realized that the final decision is made really by this entire body and not by that committee So I just want to make sure that you understand that Your process of thinking was right tonight And it's only a recommendation that we receive from that from that committee So I just wanted for the record want you to realize that you were right and when what you were saying tonight Okay There are no other councillors who wish to be recognized I think we are ready for a vote the motion is a motion to deny the request for abatement of taxes And so Just around and that's a motion. So all those in favor of the motion, please say I Any opposed Could you please repeat mr? Sure councillor jeng we are voting on the the motion made by councillor mason at the beginning of this item. It's a motion to deny the request for the abatement of taxes Um is the way it appears on the on the agenda. So the motion has been made. Would you like I've not heard any dissenting votes. Are you voting I or nay on this day? Okay, uh, so I believe we have One nay vote and the rest there Thank you for coming out mr. Gray and making your case and I I'm sorry you're not getting to satisfaction tonight The next item is 3.02 which is a request for abatement of taxes by Timothy mur at 52 north cove road Are we ready for a motion on this item? councillor mason, thank you may wine burger I'd like to make a motion similarly to deny the request at abatement and also ask for the floor back after a second Okay, is there a second seconded by councillor hartnett and uh, go ahead councillor mason Um, first, I'd like to start by asking whether the homeowner is present Before starting the discussion seeing no one raise their hand Um, this one is just as confusing and complex as the last one. Um It's also come to my error I believe there's some new information that I I'm not sure whether miss sternum is here or miss blackwood But let me give a brief introduction and then maybe turn it over. I lean Um, so this is a homeowner who was requesting an abatement in the amount of $3,702 and five cents, which I believe also is penalties in interest. He has paid the underlying tax He came, um, seeking an abatement based on the statutory basis that it was manifestly unjust that the city had assessed the tax The record before us showed that this was a homeowner who was involved in a long-going dispute with the city attorney's office regarding, uh, non-compliant property Ulta in during that time period or at some point during that time period. He basically stopped paying his taxes Ultimately, uh, a decision was rendered in favor of the city's position. Uh, there was a fine assessed However, during that process it does appear he became, um, or his financial situation became, uh, challenging Um, also because of the flood there was some revised assessment as to his, uh, principal residence however, um So what this actually the committee heard this twice the first time was on the manifestly unjust and it was the sense of the committee at the time that um What he had not demonstrated, you know, basically He lost before and his position was not true and that did not give you know, you can't stop paying your taxes just because You're fighting with the city. Um, however, the committee, um, did ask for some additional information Of its own volition on the financial ability and whether there was a different criteria under which, uh, possibly abating We did get some financial information and then there was a dissent at the committee, um as to whether to grant based upon that So with that it came to my attention today. There's some additional information that maybe Eileen can or that city attorney of blackwood could inform the committee It's also my understanding that this is a de novo hearing so we can hear Whatever new evidence is that true or is that yes? okay so Mayor Weinberger with your permission. I'd like to turn it over to the city attorney Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that folks understood because it sounded from what I had heard there was some under misunderstanding about This this was an enforcement action that the city undertook and it was a long involved Uh process that took many months and the the homeowner had a number of opportunities to resolve their issue and eventually the court agreed to Impose a penalty upon them for their failure To comply with the zoning ordinances of a dollar a day and amounted to $10,000 plus so you can see how long standing the violation was Um, they there were were in in addition after the fine was the penalty was imposed. There was uh, there were further proceedings Um, eventually the situation was corrected for a while it apparently um It involved a lot of property out in the yard. It was moved to a different property Outside of the city of burlington It has apparently now been moved back and we are about to begin further enforcement proceedings on the property So I just felt to me that was and I was hoping maybe if the applicant would be here that you know They could respond however they wanted, but it felt like information you all should have Thank you. I have nothing further at this time Okay, councillor busher so I read this and was Um, I had difficulty understanding all of this even after the brief Information that was just shared Um, what so for someone that's just looking at this information in the packet what was trouble well And this is the information provided by Um, the appellant trying to come forward Saying that that that That they had paid the fine and they And they cost more than $12,000 to to make the improvements to bring the property into Um zoning compliance Where did can I just ask a couple of questions? Um, mr. Mayor the first one is did did He pay the fine is that true and did The property come into zoning compliance? Yes to both and in they did pay the fine. They did come into compliance for a while It's just that we are now beginning another enforcement proceeding because we've heard Okay, so so then so if I can ask again another question. I'm sorry. So then They talk about the flood And the money that the city received from Um, I was going to say FEMA but Vermont I guess And that That the city refused to allocate funds to them Based on their ongoing zoning Litigation Um Is that true? I don't know anything about that So to me that was incredibly disturbing. I wasn't sure legally how this all came together. I still don't understand it I think if a person has significant destruction from An event that they didn't cause like a flood then to me I I would have felt that okay now they're in another category And I wasn't sure where I was with this process at that point in time um, and and so I I felt unprepared to vote on this because I just don't understand this Councilor mason. Uh, thank you. Uh mayor Weinerberger just to sort of address There was a lot of information presented and it was somewhat challenging to try and figure out what was relevant and what was not So at least the way we looked at it and I appreciate others may look at it differently Was first addressing is this manifestly unjust is the assessment of the penalties and interests manifestly unjust Hypotheticals or other facts where we have done that Are where property was flooded destroyed by fire, you know, there were there was some cataclysmic event That wiped out and we felt it was unfair to tax you for use of a residence when it was not present So at least in my analysis. No, there was not, you know You can't stop paying your taxes just because you're fighting with the city So it for me the conduct did not I did not believe it was manifestly unjust Then we got into analysis of whether there was an ability to pay That was the secondary analysis in light of the hardship or the difficulty that was professed And again, we were limited to the information presented to us You know, it did appear that there was sufficient income You know combined with his spouse in order to pay this penalty and interest So and I respect councillor jang and I may have disagreed on that analysis, but Based on, you know, my analysis there was an ability to pay So he did not rise to this homeowner did not rise to the level of granting relief based on inability to pay So that was again, and I appreciate there's a lot more in there But we did not the homeowner wasn't there so we didn't really get an opportunity to delve into some of that information So, mr. Mayor, can I can I sorry can I just so So I'm So what I'm trying to do is figure out the sequence of events So there was a fine paid. There was zoning violation came into compliance Then there was and and I'm not sure that I'm saying this in the right order Then there was the flood and the the Destruction to some aspect of the house It seemed like, you know, he states they were under water for six weeks So without access to any of the grants from vima then Even though the ability to pay might have been there if you're trying to save your home I'm trying to figure this out So I don't know how to put piece it all together I really don't And and so then when did he when did the property fall out of compliance again? So is that relative is that relevant or not? Because now we're in litigation with the city again, so I'm trying to figure this out I'm gonna recognize attorney blackwood to Yeah, I mean I can comment on some pieces about this because I don't know anything about the flood part of it But the flood he's he's talking about the flood of 2011 and the enforcement action Was filed. I think in 2013 it was resolved in court in 2015 I believe the fine was paid in 20 early 2016 Okay Certainly long after the flood Okay, okay, so the flood happened before the other aspects I'm sorry if everyone else knows the sequence. I apologize what I'm just trying to figure this out So then the committee looked at his ability to pay based on Him paying the penalties the flood was over And so When did he fall out of compliance again with zoning? Just recently and we are just beginning dealing with that again, okay Now I guess now the question at hand was Does he have the ability to pay? Okay Thank you. I think I'm back on track. Thank you very much Okay, councillor shannon I think inability to pay is often a difficult It's difficult for us to determine because there's so much that goes into that These these things are are complicated and and sometimes we cannot Prove affirmatively one way or the other so we're left to our best judgment on that The evidence of the foreclosure tells me this is somebody in severe dire financial situation and certainly They they well might meet that bar of inability to pay the Um becoming But but if they're going back to where they were with the violation of Of the zoning ordinance, they're going to you know, it's going to be groundhog day And we're going to be in the same situation again where they're going to have to pay another fine which they can't afford And that's going to lead to foreclosure again and we write off this money We can actually get this money through the foreclosure process potentially and if and if this If this property owner isn't going to rectify the other situation, I see us Potentially granting this abatement then It ends up he gets foreclosed on anyway So I appreciate that this situation is so dire that it's possible that this abatement is what's standing between this homeowner and foreclosure But I would like to know That can we make a contingent on being compliant? Can we make an abatement contingent on Being compliant with the zoning? You know remedying the the violation that exists I know we have in fact put many contingencies on on abatements in the past. We have Done payment plans or and we also can postpone action Um waiting, you know giving giving him a period of time to become compliant. I believe I mean My sense would be it might make sense for you to postpone action because Counselor bush has come up with a bunch of questions that I don't know the answer to Maybe it would be helpful for us to get some of these Answers get you a little bit more complete picture picture of How these things because I I don't even know what he's talking about when he talks about some money from VMA to the city that the city wouldn't give out to him I mean And he's talking about having been in forbearance with his mortgage company for a long time, but I I don't And then there's something about a foreclosure order But but that certainly isn't something I recall seeing in the court record Which would have been all around the same time he's talking about so In maybe you've decided to postpone and and let us get some more information Back to you. Um, I would like to move to postpone To uh All right our april meet which april meeting It's kind of a big meeting. Yeah Um So our our first regular meeting in april second Second third Okay seconded by counsel brochure. Um, we believe Motion postpone is a debatable item. So is there any further discussion on on the motion Councilor jang Yes, so I just wanted to know the reason why we need to postpone this if you can articulate it very clearly to us to understand because maybe there are some new information and to me Basically, they all the same We are not talking about the new zoning on compliance But we're talking about what has passed the application that the person brought here There was a disagree agreement between consulate shannon and I Due to the fact that this individual has been paying also Has been with litigation with the city for very long time And also we do understand that this individual Is in a fixed income. He's receiving $1,100 As ssi social security point of order if it or something councillor shen We're only debating the postponement not the merits correct correct. So Yes Okay, but I would have really just have the time to also Articulate why we needed to do this I think things just went a little bit fast without getting the other councillors the chance to discuss this case So councillor jang just to be clear Are you suggesting certain information that you're hoping the city attorney and other staff produce if there is a postponement? I mean, yeah, I am against postponing it. I would like us to take action. Okay, you're against a postponement. Okay Any further discussion on the motion to postpone? Okay, we will go to a vote all those in favor of postponing the item until the april 16th meeting Mr. Maynard been the original motion, but I think it should be the correct. Yeah, that's regular meeting in napal. Yeah, okay All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Aye Okay, there are two objections from council hardnett and councillor jang and the balance of The board of abatement of taxes is votes aye and so the item is postponed until april 16th and If there's no objection the board of abatement of taxes adjourn is adjourned at 9 o 9 p.m And it goes back to you president Right Thank you, mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor. Do you want to run part of this since I ran part of yours previously? I tend to sit right here All right. Thank you, mr. Mayor We'll reconvene the regular city council meeting now and move on to the next time in the agenda, which is item 6.01 on the deliberative agenda and that is a Ordinance regarding offenses and miscellaneous provisions We'll go to the chair of the ordinance committee councillor mason. Thank you acting president right I'd like to make a motion to waive the second reading adopt the ordinance and ask the floor back after a second Seconded by councillor busher Councilor mason, you have the floor back. Thank you acting president right so This is Something we've been sort of dancing off and on with for the last three or four meetings I'm not going to go through the same statement that I've made before other than to say In the context of the review of the quality of life, which we're going to be tackling The city attorney brought to the ordinance committee a number of ordinances That were either unconstitutional Based on the read case No longer really being enforced such as the cruising ordinance that is currently on the books The ordinance committee spent a fair amount of time with the city attorney walking through each of The proposed repeals And basically got confirmation that basically the actionable conduct was still actionable under alternative provisions of our ordinances So I will say I know the one that has generated a little bit of Discussion relates to the aggressive panhandling We have received advice from the city attorney's office that under the read case that actually impacted What we did on the plan parenthood buffer zone You know panhandling is speech And they're you know, this is happening across the country that aggressive or panhandling ordinances are being repealed The committee separate and apart from this has asked the city attorney to possibly explore An alternative on the abutting streets That is not yet ready for prime time and is not really for this other than to say it will be forthcoming If we get the advice from the city attorney that we expect Thank you Thank you councillor mason Back open for discussion to the city council Any city councilor wish to weigh in All right, all those in favor of passing this Change ordinance which repeals a number of ordinances which are have been as councillor mason has described Please say I I any opposed That passes unanimously Um, we will now move to thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman on that smooth Ordinance item number 6.02 is a resolution Um policy development reporting on chapter 21 of the city's codes of ordinance public safety committee Will the chair of public safety councillor roof? Yes, describe this for us and tell us what this is Well, I'll move 6.02 and after a second ask for the floor back for some quick comments seconded by councillor More councillor roof. You have the floor back. Thank you So this resolution is coming to the council in response to the quality of life ordinances Ordinance changes that were brought forward on the january 22nd meeting of this council at that meeting if we can remember the ordinance change was warned incorrectly Which warranted a slight delay in action also at that meeting There was an issue brought forth by way of a proposed amendment that aimed to essentially require police Measure and note the distance of the nearest bathroom facility In violations of chapter 21 This came for both of those reasons to public safety committee to be discussed We did so in our february meeting Where we discussed the responsibility of the city in providing bathrooms and not unjustly or Selectively enforce enforcing chapter 21 While no amendments were made to the code of ordinances as we received it We did however address the issues brought forth by the amendment and its maker with the following actions Number one, we'll be asking the police department to explore policy noting the location of publicly accessible bathrooms in instances of enforcing section 21 Dash 24 and we'll report back to the council with that recommendation within 90 days number two We'll be asking the police department to provide a status report to the public safety committee in two years with information related to The enforcement of chapter 21 The the questions that will be included in that report can be found in the resolution Finally, we are requesting that the the administration develop maintain and publicize a record in location of public A publicly available restrooms With the intention of providing a system of facilities in aggregate that in aggregate excuse me that meet the public health needs Of the broad community. I will note that this Resolution was some was unanimously supported by other community members as well as Councilor tracy who was president who was present excuse me and chief del pozo. Thank you Thank you council roof discussion by the city council Hearing none, we'll move to a vote on this resolution. All those in favor of passage of this resolution. Please say I I any opposed Once again passes unanimously. Thank you council roof and the public safety committee for that We will move on item number 6.03 has been removed from the agenda. So we'll move to item 6.04 And this is the item regarding the mural issue and we'll if you'll remember back to the meeting we discussed this previously uh, councilor james resolution Basically became a report from city attorney blackwood. She has issued us a report a written report And now we'll ask for city attorney blackwood to give us a synopsis of that report Followed and then we'll take questions from the council for city attorney blackwood That will be followed by the next item 6.05 which is a count as a resolution by councilor shannon Which was Action was postponed on that at the previous meeting to this date march the march 12th meeting So we'll hear the report from city attorney blackwood and then go to the resolution city attorney blackwood Thank you I think we laid out some quick questions and answers at the beginning of our Uh memo and then further on in the memo you can get more fill in more information About this but the quick questions were uh, who owns the mural because that makes a difference who has the authority to do something and There is only a verbal agreement with the building owner and there was a draft agreement between the church free marketplace foundation and the artists that we did not find a signed copy of But in any case the foundation folks indicated that They believe that the they had gifted or in some way given the mural to the city And therefore our conclusion is that the city essentially owns the mural if there's a decision to go forward We may want to get some Something in writing from for example the foundation to just verify that as we move forward So we may take some steps if that's how the the Council decides to move but that was our conclusion that we think we can legally do move forward and do something Now what can we do? So the first the second question we had was what rights does the artist have and the visual artists rights act called vera in short Says that an artist can prevent any distortion Modification or mutilation of a piece of work So the question here is whether or not it can be modified Whether or not it can be removed or moved without destroying it or Or modifying it in any way. So for example the I think the public comments about modification We would need to get the artist's consent to do before we could modify and Essentially our recommendation is that we should be Going to the artist and trying our best to get the artist's consent for whatever it is We try to do that's going to be the the safest legal Way for us to proceed no matter what we try to do and the There were also questions raised about what rights any of the donors who gave the money would have and it appears They were given to a charitable organization. There were no As far as we could find there were no specific earmarks by anyone So we don't see that the donors have any enforceable right So given those are essentially the legal summary of where we where we are and I'm happy to answer any questions All right. Thank you questions from the city council counselor busher I don't have a question, but I want to give you a compliment I understood this report and from a city attorney to a non-attorney. It was very clear. It it was formatted well You I very much appreciated it and you substantiated and gave me more information About all the rights of the artist and where we are and and so Really it was very well done. So I imagine this was a fair amount of work. So thank you very much. Thank you Thank you, councillor busher other comments or questions for city attorney blackwood councillor jane Yes, um, thank you again for the hard work Not was looks like it was also your team. How many people worked on this report? Sorry The attorney dexter cooper did a lot of the research and she talked to a lot of different people who assisted From the marketplace and other parts of the city that And it sounds like now the city owns the middle. Is that correct? We believe that to be the case We believe or we own the middle or no, sorry Do we own the middle the city of burlington owns the middle now or no? We believe that the city of burlington owns the mural as I said We will probably assuming that you want to move forward with something We'll probably take some steps to make sure that we solidify that a little more by getting the foundation To be clear that it does not believe it owns it. Yes. I mean, I think my question is very specific and clear Do that the city of burlington owns the middle or no or the the report is not complete yet The report is complete is complete. So we own the middle the city of burlington owns the middle We're telling you we believe that we own it But that we think we should take a step to make sure of that by getting some kind of release from the foundation All right, so I I personally believe then, um, you know We we we graciously and respectfully ask To get all the information and it sounds like it was not only you you had assistant who been working on this as well And I do believe this is very important And this is very critical for us to have the right information before we make any action And I I do believe personally that it will be important to get the facts Very right So my second I have a couple questions many questions But we can I can come back to the second round president Mr. Mayor and then we'll go to council roof. Yeah, I just uh council jang. I think it's important that This happens too often in this setting it is important that staff members of the city of burlington Be treated correctly and to characterize You're not having been given the right information is not a fair characterization of the exchange That's just happened between you and the city attorney the city attorney said she is giving You the best opinion based on substantial amounts of work and depending on the Action that is desired to go forward from here additional steps would be necessary It's not a question of her Securing the right information or not and I don't appreciate the way in which the question was phrased or the statement was made Yeah, um, I apologize for that city attorney and councillor jane. You have to be recognized. So thank you So hold on. Let's we'll bring you back. But councillor were you done, mr. Mayor? Yes, okay, thank you and we'll go to council roof and then we come back to you councillor jane Thank you. I also have a question for the city attorney I'll say that I did understand the answer that you provided to councillor jane. I appreciate that It was clear what's not clear is uh, whether or not the artist was contacted By through this report and if so What happened there? The church street marketplace personnel tried several ways to contact the artist and the artist did not respond However in the interim I'm sure you all saw that a newspaper reporter was able to contact The artist and we have not gone back to try to do a follow-up Post that newspaper report wanting to see If we got a little more guidance from the council on how you want to proceed Because it seems to me the next step ought to be probably A contact of the artist that says here's what we want to do.  Thank you Thank you councillor. We'll go back to councillor jane Thank you, and um my apologies for you know those reasons um But yeah, I think it is very important and very imperative because as I said earlier This is very crucial and it's is very critical And I think um since january 2005 to now maybe you were On vacation and you let your staff help you to get the right information We are going to take action and we are going to take action But before we do that we need the right information to the best of your abilities But I do believe that it is important to use some words such as This is accurate or this is not accurate, but to me as an english language learner. I mean When I hear we believe it does not Really give the right answer And that's just what i'm trying to get to with you to say do we own the mirror or not? But it sounds like it's not clear yet Whether we own the mirror or we don't own is that accurate city attorney Point of order point of order councillor shannon. What is your point of order? I think the city attorney has answered the question repeatedly to the best of her ability and I don't know that it's productive or appropriate to Kind of continue to badger on the same question I think that is a point well taken. I think that councillor jane that city attorney has I think has covered that. I appreciate the question. I do appreciate the question, but I think that City attorney black was made clear that she's given her best analysis of this Which is that she believes that we own the mural, but she thinks that we need to do A little more work to to make sure I think that's that's I think Yep Councillor jane. Yeah um Yeah, so can I then ask stay then can I then Say it in a different way. Okay, when will we get that information? If city attorney Yeah, I think what we need is we wanted some direction from you that yes, you would like to move forward with With something and then we will go to the foundation and get and ask them for a release of Any rights any residual rights? They think they may have And we'll put that document together and and and prepare that We all set councillor jane or jim. No, I have a lot of questions To I'm not sure you have to wait for that document to do anything just to be clear I'm not sure you have to wait for me to do that next step We do have a resolution coming up an action resolution. So there can be further Debate about this after that councillor mason Councillor mason passes councillor hartnett I have a comment just councillor You can go through the council chair and I can recognize councillor jane if we I President right, would you ask him if he's Is he considering postponing action on the task force Until we see he has The full answer from the city whether we own it or not. I think it makes sense. That's what I'm asking Uh We will if councillor jane decides to do that that will be up to him to make that motion He has the ability to make a motion to postpone action We have not heard that yet But that will come at the when the resolution comes up if councillor jane or anyone else decides to Postbone action because of that reason We will go to councillor busher I'm gonna pass councillor busher passes. I've been waiting for that for 25 years Go to councillor mason back to councillor mason. Thank you acting president right I think the confusion if I may try isn't that it's not a question that hasn't been asked You know, this is not lack of diligence that the confusion I think Relates to the fact that there's an unsigned agreement. There's the fact that the city was making payments So it's not a question of if more questions had been asked or more people had done work that we know the answer to that What i'm hearing from the city attorney is Based on their analysis, we believe we own it However, we think in order to confirm that we would like to present an assignment or some document to the foundation Which is a separate legal person asking them to assign any and all rights to the works To the city that would that would address There's no question who would own it if they sign that piece of paper We have no reason to think the foundation won't sign that piece of paper But they were looking for some guidance from us as to which direction to go before preparing that document and presenting it to the foundation to sign so That's my assessment of that. So I see no reason at this time to delay Moving forward with the task force or some other type of action. Thank you. Thank you councillor mason I think that we should be ready to move into the action item now So let's uh Councillor jang Yeah, I have multiple questions We will I think there'll be more opportunity When we when we take up the resolution Do you do you have something you need to address still now before we move to that? All of the questions that I have get ready and they all base on the report we receive from the city attorney So I would like you to please allow me to ask them all. Okay.  Thank you Um, yes, so thank thank you again. Thank you very much And you know we you talked about Vera visual arts And in the report, especially the sex question number two There is one said the prejudices to this honor And reputation of the artist And I would like you to please explain that More specifically that line the part about the harm to the reputation of the artist. Yes We did a little bit of looking at case law on what that means how that's been interpreted to mean and it's a pretty subjective standard and The the courts have looked at And I think I gave you all an indication of a very recent Incident that happened where A developer Removed a a lot of graffiti from a building and And uh, 21 graffiti artists were awarded a fairly large sum in the court case for having removed that without the artist's permission Because the artists themselves deemed that it would harm their reputations. Um, so there is a it's a it is a complicated um Well, I shouldn't say it's complicated. It's a um A legal standard that's going to depend on what the artist comes in and says about their reputation and what the The court says as to whether adding new figures, for example To this would in some way harm the artist's reputation My recommendation in this is if we if there is a decision that folks want to move forward with looking to modify The uh, the mural in some way that we should Try to contact the artist and find out what the artist's position in is that is on that Maybe that the artist says no that won't harm my reputation. That's fine Yeah, so, I mean, I think it's clearly said that the artist had the right under the visual arts right act To prevent any distortion Modification of a work that will be produced this year to his Honor or reputation And to prevent distraction of any artwork And also uh on the report you also mentioned um somewhere that the art techniques that was used here Is not visual art, but it was more like a trump day Art and I just wanted to make sure if you can explain it to us if visual if Vera Also applies to trump day the art technique that we use for this mural We found at least one case where the courts have applied Vera to trump loyal and trump loyal is essentially the definition of it is a visual art That attempts to take in a two-dimensional form and make it appear as if it's three-dimensional So given all of that it appeared to us to make to and and our conclusion was that yes This form of art because you had raised this question to me ahead of time So we did look at it And it was our conclusion that trump loyal would indeed be covered by vera It would be covered by vera Thank you And what type of um how how And somewhere you said the the artist would need to be given a proper notice And is it 10 days three days? 30 days 90 days it well we have to provide the um It depends what we're gonna notice of If we're giving him notice of modification of removal of destruction, etc. So there are various Some one option is a reasonable period and another is there's a 90 day period under one section of the of the law okay So just to come to a conclusion I don't believe that this report is clearly accurate to what we need to know in order to go to the next step step And I really would like for the city attorney To please I mean Come back with couple of more concrete step and one of them would be To find the time to speak with the artist About this issue and also try to get his thought. I mean clearly and present to us The second thing would be also to make sure that The presentation will include that. Yes, the city owns this Mirror or the city does not own the mirror And also to make sure that we have a clear understanding that Vera really protects This art technique that was used at the everybody loved the parade mirror And also I think it would be very important to find that contract And also to make sure that we have the signed contract here and a document included in In the report as well So there are four or five main things that I really would like to see In order for us for me specifically to know that we received an accurate Report about the things that we Nicely tasked you on the 25th and again Thank you very much for this hard work for you and also for your team. Thank you Okay, thank you councillor jane councillor ruf Yes, thank you. I have a question about the promised length of display Actually, my question is I think I'm reading it correctly. I know there's a few different things to play That's there's Vera. There's the hardy Contract is also the rfq. Could you just give a Lemons term breakdown of where we are where we are at with the promised length of this play the There the rfq was definitely put out and it included something that said Five year that the it would be displayed but for five years and that the display was not a contractual term There is then a draft Contract that we have found in city records With the foundation that has 10 years in it and there were apparently some some comments made to sponsors That talked about 10 years because that was what the artist Indicated that the artist felt the materials and everything would last so so all but Our conclusion of all of that is that um there that Because we don't have a signed contract and we don't Have a and and the promises if they really were promises to Donors were not made in the form of being binding promises that in some way means the city has to Go by the the 10-year date And as we've noted, we don't have a signed copy of the contract understood. Thank you I'll set council roof. Thank you. Any other councillor for attorney blackwood Okay, thank you attorney blackwood for that report and We will now move to the action item six item 6.05 a resolution by councillor shannon that had been moved to this meeting postponed from the previous one Go to councillor shannon to move this Yes, I moved to adopt the resolution and ask for the floor back after a second Seconded by councillor busher councillor shannon. Tell us what this resolution does and Uh, thank you. I think this resolution recognizes that the Everyone loves a parade mural is uh, not as Inclusive as as we expect in our community But that there might be a variety of different solutions And remedies to address that situation So it asks for the following To create a seven-member mural task force And i'll just read segments of this this diverse panel should include individuals who have a wide variety A wide array of perspectives including that of the new american avanaki and other diverse communities The church street marketplace commission mural donors and the arts community And that the city will provide staff to the task force And run an open application process One of the things that that i've considered if if this should pass I think it would be helpful if the city could create a An application that people could fill out that specifically addresses Those diverse communities that are listed and ask people if they're because we wouldn't necessarily know from an Application if they fit into this category or that so I think it would be helpful to have that On the application as a way of determining that And also charges the the task force With considering what the options might be for the mural keeping in mind the the Rights of the artist the property rights Um principles of public art Uh and other important criteria by which this this should be judged um I personally hope that the that what might come out of this as well as kind of an additional um part of the discussion is to consider What What our process should be going forward to avoid the mistakes that we've made I think it's much harder to correct a mistake once it's done And there's a huge investment in something like this And it will be better if we can head it off before all that money is spent and before we make the mistake That um perhaps makes people feel badly for a variety of reasons One of which might be raised but there there are other issues as well And I'll you know, I'll be happy to come before the task force or maybe I'll be able to participate To talk about that more, but I hope that the council will support this so that we can We can move forward together on an issue that can be very divisive. Um I think it's better that we Try to find some common ground and I think the task force will give us that opportunity. Thank you Thank you council shannon. Council shannon will the Task force be staffed by the city attorney's office or city attorney's office will provide guidance for the For the task force. It says provide Provide staff support um I don't think it specifies the city attorney's office, but that there will be city staff support Okay, and it would it would be the expectation the city attorney would provide legal guidance for the task force Depending on what route the task force might decide to go with the with the mural that it that was our office's expectation Okay, thank you. All right, open it up to discussion and then we'll go with councillor hartner first councillor busher is up next and Anybody else who wants to get in the queue? Thank you, uh president right. Um So I was really on the fence while I supported the task force And ultimately have come down to the side where I do think we need need a task force However, I I'm in hopes that we don't remove The mural because I think it's important that it it stays and I agree that it needs to be more inclusive Um I'm going to make a pitch to councillor dang I I understand where he's coming from with those questions I do feel that it would be better if we had those questions answered before we moved forward with the task force I think he makes a good point. However Back to councillor shannon's point. She makes a good point and and my hopes that that this task force Will go much beyond this particular painting And that it will look at the entire process moving forward on how we will approach this In the future. I doubt this is going to be the last public painting that we have here in the city of brodington And I think it would be important. So I think there's a lot of work the task force could do in the meantime Before we maybe get the final answer. So I'd hate to postpone The task force's work that they could actually get started on and then in that process come back With some of the final answers that councillor dang is looking for Um, because I think it's important that that we have those It would be nice to know for sure that we own it sounds like we do But I would like it to be official and it certainly would be nice to know the artist's feelings I think the task force would want to know that and I think that's important. So But I would hate to stop the momentum that we have going now with this task force And I think there's some work they can do Other than just simply just just to identify What what we're going to do in this particular case. So I I'm hopes that we move forward tonight. I will support the task force and um, and and and one other thing I will add I hope the work is done fairly quickly that this doesn't drag out Through the summer months or for a long period of time We have a lot of important issues in this city that need to be addressed. Not that this isn't important It is but I just I feel like the real work of the city ahead of us is really critical and I hope that this doesn't bog us down Because I think there's a way that we can get to a great outcome here and and and have everyone satisfied So I'm hoping that the timeline is very short With the task force. Thank you Thank you, councillor Point of order councillor shannon. I realized I was remiss and not clarifying that I was moving the revised version of the Of the resolution and the revised version does have different dates Noting that the the in the revised version that I moved The date to report back to the council is july 16th Okay, that's the revised version with the revised timeline. Yes, and that's the one that I Was intending to do so or what I moved. Okay, we'll go with that. Thank you councillor shannon um, it sounds like a point a sticking point here is going to be whether the points of More information Need to be done before the task force or can be done during the task force work So I think that maybe before I go to city before I go to city council busher Briefly to city attorney blackwood then back to councillor busher any Yeah, I mean my sense is what additional work has to be done It's going to be in relation to the questions and direction of the task force So I I see it there We we can certainly move ahead with getting a written document or release from the foundation to clarify Solidify the city's ownership. Okay. Thank you City councillor busher um, thank you So, you know, I I certainly support this resolution I I wanted to support it when it was on the agenda the last time because I felt that the community had Become divided Around this topic and I felt that this was a process that could potentially bring us together I feel that you know, I listened to the the public forum as all of you did and The lady that spoke about art history and how art is a snapshot in time We're not a perfect society That was a snapshot in time. It wasn't I I didn't believe it to be historical. I I believed it to be representative of burlington and some of the people that we recognized More currently than in the past Um So But I've learned a lot by this conversation. So to me it is so important That we get the community talking about this not just the people that we that volunteer or get appointed to this task force But the whole community um Some may see the mural as a mistake And I'm not and I don't like those little phrases like a mistake turns into an opportunity But in this sense, it turns it's going to turn into a dialogue I I'm sorry. I get a lot of those little quips at work, you know and so anyways But it's going to turn into a dialogue that is really an important one Um for all of us. Um, and so I don't want to delay that dialogue. It's begun It's happening around us. We need to be a part of it We need to be included in it not that we need to direct it But we need to be part of it so that we can take the right response We can do what the community wants us to do after having a conversation about the mural And whether it should stand or be modified or what whatever the suggestions are from this conversation um When we were talking about the city attorney's communication and the need to reach out to the artist And the fact that the media um had had found the artist and had some kind of communication To me I want us to make sure that this resolution goes to the artist so that the artist is aware That this these are the steps we're beginning to take and we want the artist to be involved to if he would like to be So I think that that's so important that we Include everybody that wants to take part in this. I'm hoping that my hopes are that the meetings will occur At times or public can usually weigh in Um, and that's difficult for me to say because sometimes people Are more apt to