Are you on the RCR mailing list? Never miss a beat of the news and hard-hitting stories you've come to know and love. Stay in the loop. Visit realitycheck.radio.com forward slash e-mail. Fletcher Tabato is a former teacher and lecturer who turned his mind to politics with New Zealand First, serving two terms before exiting Parliament in 2020. He's now turned to the dark side and works as a lobbyist. Let's see if we can get an understanding about the dark arts of lobbying. He joins me now. Fletcher Tabato, welcome to The Crunch. Thanks, man. Good to be here. Now, you were a teacher and economics lecturer, a former MP. And now you've turned to the dark side.  I have been all those things. And yes, I am that. A lot of the listeners get their views on lobbyists from the mainstream media, who almost entirely malign the very work that you guys do. Yeah, someone like me, who's involved in politics, you know, deeply and has been for decades, understands how lobbying works and what can be achieved with lobbying that things like, you know, petitions and signature gathering and public speeches and that can't deliver.  Yeah, no, that's yeah, it's a nice topic to cover. So yeah, thanks for thanks for going there. Happy to help. Yeah, so so tell us what a lobbyist does. Well, I suppose if you start with because they've asked the Ministry of Justice to help, you know, set some standards in New Zealand's lobby industry over the last maybe as long as a year it's been. I haven't been a lot of only been a lobbyist for about three weeks. So I don't know the history there. But the Ministry of Justice says it's the practice of engaging in advocacy activities to influence policies and decisions. It takes many forms from phone calls to text to a beer or a coffee and maybe even an online media campaign or probably more likely a formal office meeting and that pretty much blandly sums it up. The reality is what I have been seeing and when you consider the new composition of government, we've got a lot of new Ministers there. We've got some amazing experience, but actually we've got new Ministers who don't know their portfolios with any level of detail. I'm not maligning them. It's just the way allocations of ministries go to these new Cabinet Ministers and probably more significantly, you've got a whole lot of new staff. I know all the parties in the House are struggling to find good people to staff their offices with senior advisers, researchers, media and comms people. So I see it quite frankly as acting on behalf of a client to basically educate the government or the minister or his staff and actually say, look, these are the decisions you're thinking about. Did you know that if you do this, this or this, then these things are going to happen and it's literally an education campaign and making them aware of the implications in the real world of the decisions they're making. And so it's critically important, no matter who you are in terms of engaging with government, you've got to make sure they actually know what the hell's going on.  But as I point out to many people, ministers are often ministers in multiple departments and of disparate types of areas as well. So if you look at like Judith Collins, for example, the new attorney general, we know what that role entails. It's looking at all the laws that the government is looking at enacting, making sure it's consistent with the Bill of Rights Act, all of that sort of thing. But on top of that, she's also got the Ministry of Defense. She's also the minister responsible for GCSB and the SIS. And those are completely different to the disciplines required for being an attorney general. And so you've got the you've got people who are in positions where they may not know things. And, you know, a good example of this is the pandemic, right? People said, oh, if only we had had national in charge. And I said, what makes you think that they'd have done anything different? And I said, well, you know, they believe this and they believe that. I said, yeah, the problem is, is that with the pandemic, it's outside the area of expertise, except maybe for Shane Reedy. But they would have asked the same advisors and the same advisors would have been there and given the same advice. Yeah. And that is the problem that there is with ministers and and advisers is that ministers who aren't that sharp rely on their advisers. And if their advisers are wonky, then the advice is wonky. It's not even about being sharp, Cam. It's about you intimated before it's about time management.  And so that's that's what you're listening to. You know, when you speak about Judith Collins, think of her spaceport folio now. She must be quite excited to have their portfolio. I don't I don't have any clients in the space sector, but you can imagine now's the time to say to, you know, if you were in that sector, God, we should get in front of Judith Collins and just tell her what we do and how exciting it is to be able to launch one of the 11 countries in the world to be able to launch rockets into space, you know, from New Zealand and all the amazing secondary business that creates, never mind the core business itself. You know, it's an amazing story to tell. And really, and truly, that's what you want your minister to know about and their staff so that they ideally are as passionate as you are about what you're doing. I mean, that's if you look at Judith Collins, and you can also look at Winston Peters, for example, Malcolm Gladwell, the author, popularized the idea that someone needs to spend 10,000 hours at something to become an expert. They've certainly got 10,000 hours at governance in terms of ministers. They're incredibly competent in in what they're going to do. But you're right. And you highlighted there's a whole lot of new ministers who haven't had any of the sort of governance exposure, not even close to 10,000 hours. And and they're responsible for very serious decision making processes and therefore they have to rely on those staff and and advisers that they've done their 10,000 hours and there's a good chance they haven't either. So I was talking to an association yesterday and basically all I was saying is because their experience in this specific area is that the officials always push back. They might even concede points and and acknowledge what you're saying. But then they push back and nothing seems to happen. And that's that's the policy wants within the ministries. So so the conversation was very much about, well, get good data, get good information, package it up. So it's simple, but impactful so that we can potentially get in front of a minister so that they actually understand what it is their staff and advisers are coming to tell them. And hopefully be able to push back, have a little bit of wisdom and a little bit of understanding of those deeper issues to go. No, no, no, hold on, hold on. That's not my understanding.  You know, I started at eight every morning and I wouldn't finish. Well, I do people know that the bells don't ring till 10 o'clock. And that's actually when you're allowed to leave the premises. So you pretty much trapped in Parliament from eight when you start till 10 o'clock at night. And, you know, 10 o'clock wasn't necessarily the home time. And I was an undersecretary, not a not a full minister. And my workload was continuous and huge. So it's going to be a lot about time management. So you have to be very, very conscious of that as well. You can't overload these people when you have to be supportive and try and work with their team just as much as themselves. You know, what you're saying about the policy wonks within departments, that's certainly a case in any areas that I'm, you know, passionate about. I collect firearms and I'm a shooter and a hunter and all of those sorts of things. And so watching the government make laws around firearms without actually knowing raw data and then watching them rely upon the police to give them information that that that is demonstrably false.  A whole lot of people. Geez, I'd be surprised if there was more than a handful. Well, that's the thing, right? So so the police tell the politicians this is dreadful. This is how gangs are getting guns. This is what we need to do to stop it. And the solution is a gun register. Of course, it won't stop it, stop criminals getting guns. But the basic premise of it is the police can only provide two examples of this happening. And there were such egregious examples that they got caught without having a gun register, kind of destroying the whole premise of the argument of the police that we need to have a gun register to catch these guys because, well, we caught these guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the reality is it's very hard to do that. But the police as experts, you know, that advise the minister and advise cabinet mislead the politicians who are making the decisions. But it's the politicians who have to wear the anathema from the shooting community when they pass silly laws that are never going to do what they've intended to do because they were given wrong information to start. Yeah, that that's exactly where it is. And and and sometimes it's with the best will in the world. But just as equally the amount of stories I've heard recently of policy people who just have a personal beat and and they control information flow into the minister's office and then they control the flow back from minister's instruction from that office into the ministry.  And so it can be a dangerous situation. I don't think anyone anyone's been particularly malicious. But if it doesn't suit a particular personality, I know of cases where it's been interpreted to suit their, you know, their own actual agenda rather than the government, which will probably see quite a lot of over the next year or so as well. We're already seeing it, aren't we? Because lobbyists aren't people just people like you who do it for a job. They could be vested interests in, you know, any different sectors. Say in a classic example of what we're seeing of some lobbying going on now directly using the media as a conduit is all of this opposition to the new government's policy to wind back the silly low nicotine tobacco and all of the restrictions that they were going to do to remove stores selling illegal product. But the pushback that's coming from that are people like Boyd Swinburne, who I've interacted with before. They've got this thing called the Health Alliance. They issue press releases that get, you know, basically word for word verbatim turned into news articles. And they create this perception that the public is outraged at these law changes when the reality is as most people don't care.  Most people realize it's just that rolling time table and everything else is pretty much staying the same. So yeah, it's just crazy, really. Now, your your firm that you're you work for has got some an interesting cast of characters. Yes, some awesome people in here.  That's part of the game of politics. But it takes all types. But the person that interests me the most in your firm is Mike Monroe, because he used to be an advisor to Helen Clark. Yeah, yeah. And when he left, and this is my observation, I don't know if it's right or not. Maybe you can go and have a chat with them and say, this is Cam's impression. When he left working for Helen Clark, the wheels fell off her direction. And it was the beginning of the end of her because my impression and what I've heard from about Mike Monroe is that he was quite willing to push back against Helen Clark if she had a silly idea or something wasn't practical. And that that struck me as a person with integrity that was prepared to not just say, yes, minister, you know, like the TV program. In your experience, is that is that a rare commodity that there'll be somebody who does push back inside the office with the minister? And and do you then now that you're on the outside, do you try and find who those people are because they can be good advocates for what you're you're trying to achieve? That's a really good question. So my personal experience was that I created a high level of trust in my office.  But you can imagine some ministers with massive egos being quite fragile about that and quite not wanting to have that kind of pushback in their own space. So I bet you it's a personal thing. And yeah, I think you're being on like I've only been doing this like three weeks and and actually all parties are struggling to find stuff, as I said. So I think it's going to be a long term kind of get to know the people in Parliament, get to know the officers and and the ministers and, you know, understand who's actually willing to listen because what most people seem to think is a lobbyist can go on and just tell a minister what to do. It just doesn't work. It doesn't. It doesn't work like that. So you've got to build relationships and you've got to get to know people and understand where they're coming from. And and sometimes you just have to simply tell a client that's just not going to happen.  Yeah, I mean, I have been known to do some lobbying in the past most often it's a it's a love job that I don't charge for it.  And can you make this happen?  But this is reality and that's not going to fly. And sometimes they just like can't believe that this is the case. Hang on.  But I don't think that's an idea that's going to fly. In fact, I might be friends with them, but it probably gives me more certainty in telling you that they're going to look at me, go cross-eyed and tell me to get out of the office. The one thing that and this is I was giving some advice to somebody over breakfast yesterday, they came to me and they said, look, I've got this problem, I'm going to write this letter and this is what I'm going to do. Can you have a look at it for me? So I had a look at the letter was very lengthy. I looked at who he was intending to send it to. And I said, well, this is all nice, this letter, but it doesn't give any solutions. And they said, what do you mean? I said, well, these guys are ministers. If you don't give them a solution or a range of solutions, an option A and option B and option C with all of the things like you just said earlier, this is what could happen if you do this and this is what will happen if you do that. And those if you don't present those as options and make it easy for them to choose one of those options, which you'll be happy with any of those, then they're going to take that letter. They'll probably file it. Maybe they'll ask a couple of people in the office who are advisors to say, what do you think we should do on this? And if those advisors are exercised in that area, they may think up something to do or not to do. But invariably, the status quo prevails, which is do nothing. Yeah, at least at least if you're going to produce solution. My advice to people always when you're going and talking to a minister, present them with a problem and then present them with a range of solutions so that they can choose one. And if you don't do that, then you're just going to have lots of meetings that go nowhere. Yes, so you're being on the money. And the only thing I would add to that is if you've got a variety of solutions at the very least in my own experience, I would send the team away. So go down to our ministry advisors and tell them to give me some responses to these three or four scenarios that have been provided here so that I can understand and actually start making some informed decisions. And maybe then you pick one and start following that path. So yeah, yeah, absolutely. You're absolutely right. I remember filing a multitude of just letters complaining. Mind you, they weren't normally to me as a minister. They were normally to me as the deputy leader. And so they weren't in my particular purview to be able to do anything about except have a discussion with some of the team and then they get get filed away. So yeah, provide provided scenarios, provide answers. Yeah. Yeah. One of your roles, according to Wikipedia, I mean, I'm not sure it's true because it's on Wikipedia. One of your roles in the last year has been training candidates for New Zealand First to get them ready for A, being an MP and B, the possibility of ministers. Are you pretty pleased with the result that New Zealand First achieved at the election? Yeah, I'm personally stoked. I still have a passion for New Zealand First and its people. And we've got some new people on the team there. And we've got some cabinet ministers. We've got ministers outside of cabinet and we've got some undersecretaries. So there's there's a raft of responsibilities being handed out there, which is, you know, it's it's incredible, really. So yes, I was part of the team that was training not only our candidates, but when they got into Wellington, I came down and ran some sessions with the new MPs as well. So yeah, that was that was a lot of fun. Of the the new MPs, you know, obviously, we've got Winston and Shane sitting in there with vast experience of governance and how Parliament operates. There's a whole bunch of new people, obviously, Jenny Markroff's back again. He's got a little bit of experience. Mark Patterson's back again. Mark Patterson's back. Casey Costello would have to be the standout, though, wouldn't she? I think so. I think there's been a lot of a lot of the wrong. The wrong word is hype, but there's been a lot of talk around Casey. Now, obviously, I've worked with her now and seen her operate. I think people can tell that she's she's a deep thinker. She's quite considerate. And then when she does speak, she's actually very articulate and considered in what she says. So yeah, I personally and so that she's being allocated some ministerial and associate ministerial roles. So I think we'll see some great outcomes there, particularly in seniors, for example. Yeah, I mean, I've interviewed her twice on the crunch. Both times she impressed me immensely with the depth of knowledge and just the core common sense that exists within her. And, you know, you see that coming out in comments from Shane Jones, for example, on Tuesday, when, you know, Casey's making those same things. There's a lot of comment around at the moment from Maori or purporting to speak for all Maori, representing all Maori, even though they're going to got 3 percent of the half of what New Zealand first got in less than half of what Act got. There's accusations that the new government is racist. Yeah. And yet 35 percent of of the cabinet Maori, it's the highest ever level of Maori as cabinet ministers in the cabinet. And it's almost not mentioned at all. Because there seems to be a perception that these are the wrong sort of Maori. No, I think I think you hit the nail on the head. So I get I get I'm a proud Maori from Te Arawa. You know, anyway, I love my whanau and I'm proud of my whakapapa on that side of the family as much as I am of that tabuto name, the French ancestry there. But when when people stand up either in public or, you know, at meetings or stuff and start saying they're speaking on behalf of all Maori, it literally just makes me angry in my gut. It's going to know you don't. It's in and fundamentally, I think we're being let down by the politicians and the media in particular. I think it's great to see Shane Jones, Casey and Winston able and comfortable to push back. But it's kind of you. The Maori Party have got away for too long as saying they represent Maori. They don't. They seem to be creating a victim hood and then getting a few people along for the ride. And it's just so upsetting and distressing to watch. I mean, it's frustrating to see it and to see the media hurl these labels out there. You know, the Maori Party presented the protest on Tuesday with a couple of crossed guns in some images. Now, if that had been New Zealand first doing that, there would have been an outrage. If it had been acted, done that with crossed guns. Yeah, if there would have been an outrage if they had had the minister who's now responsible for all the firearms, things who was out there, you know, parading around with the firearm, there would be all sorts of outrage. But the Maori Party seems to be able to get away with overt intimidation and threats either through their language or through their imagery. Yeah, so to be honest, I kind of picked it during near the start of the election campaign that this was going to be a different mouldy than Pitta Sharples and Tariah Haria. Yeah. Yeah. And even Jimmy Flavel, you know, Te Ururoa Flavel. You know, there was a. Yeah, there was a class and a. A manna, a manna about them. And, yeah, unfortunately, it seems Shane used a beautiful word yesterday about theatrics and. Yeah. And that's that's where the Maori Party see see their chance, which is really upsetting because.  Exactly. Yeah. And that's the message that Shane Jones says almost every time he's interviewed. Maori want the same thing as everybody else. You know, why? Yeah, we'll just get along. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're in this together. People need to realize that there's more and we're holding us in common than there is tearing us apart. And those who choose to tear us apart kind of missing the point, man. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is I was reading an article on stuff. You know, forgive me for my sins, but I was reading an article on stuff. I got to the end of the article and it's it's stated that the journalist was of this Nati Porou dissent and this sort of dissent and that sort of I'm suddenly thinking, what on earth is this? Yeah, where is the little right? And I can imagine if I was writing for stuff, what would I put that? You know, I'm of Scottish dissent, but born in Fiji and put they wouldn't even consider putting that there. But because the author is or the journalist is a Maori, they put all of their whakapapa in there and and I'm thinking, what is the point of this? We just want the news. We just want we don't want to know about you. You're just a conduit for that. But here we've got all this stuff. And there's a time and a time and a place I love it. I'm getting old now. I'm nearly 50. And so when I meet people from around the country, I do kind of start to share whakapapa and start telling stories about different families in it. And it can be amazing because it can create a real connection.   It's kind of what's that got to do with your your ancestry and your your grandmother and your grandfather kind of thing. And I think I think I'd also make the point is, you know, if you actually circulate in the Maori world, which I do and you talk to Hapu leaders and Iwi leaders even from within Te Arawa, they don't agree with one another. And they don't agree with one another on fundamentals on how to best help the people, economic strategies, investment strategies, you know, what type of bloody house to build for whānau.  I mean, that's the thing. There's a headline on stuff on Wednesday morning that says, you know, divisions in national over Māori policies. And they're making out that national is all over the place when it comes to Māori policies, that they're not speaking with one voice, that there's anxiety within national. And I'm sitting there thinking, what have we become that we aren't allowed to have discussions about things anymore? We're not allowed to have debates, whether they're robust or otherwise. Yeah, because there seems to be, and this is where the Māori Party seems to be very doctrinaire in their claims. I mean, Debbie Nariwa-Packer was saying that, you know, we can discount what New Zealand First says in access, because they only got six and eight percent, completely forgetting. Of course, she represents a party that only got three percent. But yeah, I was listening to her math and argument when she was sitting with Shane on TV. And yeah, I think I have to agree with you on that one. I mean, they're sitting there saying we can't have a debate on about the treaty. This is our truth. And this is our slant on what we believe the treaty says. And that there shall be no debate at all. And anybody who wants to debate that is racist. And it is destroying our society is creating the division in forcing unity. Yeah, the only thing I'd say about that is all I've seen over the last 30, 40 years is the interpretation of the treaty itself has changed and evolved. And and that's that's been driven by different individuals. And as people like it or not, it's they've come on board or opposed it. And so it evolves and individuals have been at the core of the evolution. And so, yeah, you know, to say this is it. Yeah, it's just not right. I mean, I guess the Maori Party is doing their own formal lobbying, they're lobbying the general public, saying that we are right and everyone else is wrong. And if you don't like it, well, we're going to disrupt your traffic and we're going to keep doing this until we get what we want. Well, they've seen great results from being angry, right? And so I think I think we're going to see them get angry. Well, yeah, I mean, that's the sad part of it. And I guess that's where, you know, I think a lot of the voters of New Zealand First and ACT are expecting both of those parties and their MPs to stand up and say, no, that's actually, you know, that's your view. You're entitled to your view. This is our view and we're going to have a discussion about this. Yeah, well, let's put it this way. I've really enjoyed watching Shane, you know, he did a lot of media yesterday and make the nail on the head every time. Well, the thing is, is he so deeply involved in it as well, you know, especially up north and dealing with he was explaining to me in an interview about a particular development that they wanted to get off the ground. And there was something like 15 Hapu involved in the area that involved and not one single one of them agreed with the other one. No, exactly. And so you got this inability to progress anything because the government of the day has said that we need to have everyone agree that this is a good idea to do this. And so nothing ever happens because nobody actually sits down and works out what are the things that we're aligned with? Where are these the exceptions? Can we mitigate those? Can we find a pathway through it? It's almost impossible. And, you know, I'm talking to another guy who's involved in the Western Bay of Plenty, Daniel Way. And he said, you know, the three waters legislation was always going to be a disaster because in his area, there's something like 17 Hapu that none of them agree on anything. And I was actually doing some work back immediately after leaving parliament, trying to understand Hapu's interaction with the three waters and their own work. And that was true almost everywhere to find unity of voice across different geographical patches, you know, in the form of Hapu was almost impossible. It's until we can solve this inability to discuss things without resorting to insults and performances, I really fear for our democracy. Do you have the same sort of trepidation? Yeah, well, what I fear is when I would speak up against the wrought that was the interpretation of democracy as far as Māori representation was concerned and speak against that. Suddenly, I was completely anti Māori in all things. And yet, you know, I have the privilege of sitting on my pipe. I am in one of my marae and, you know, love my aunties out there who are abusing me to get in the kitchen. And, you know, I love I'm still passionate about trying to learn the real more and, you know, half my family are in Kapa Haka, being in Te Arawa. And I love it.  My objection to the interpretation of democracy and representation, unfortunately, means that for some, they have to paint me a picture as being anti Māori. And so that's what's happening more and more.  You don't understand even even though my circumstances might be completely different to others or, you know, you just you get lumped into a into a stereotype based on one quite precise position you might have. And then you're categorised. And that's what's dangerous. You can't be nuanced. You can't have a discussion. You can't talk around the grey areas and trying to work through the detail. And when we saw that, we saw that we saw that on Tuesday, didn't we, with Debbie Nariwa Packer insulting Shane Jones as being old and out of touch. Yeah. And he was just replying to her arguments. I mean, she stated that, you know, that this government has insulted 20 percent of the population. Well, that statement can't stand. I mean, for a start, Māori are 17 percent of the population. So she's, you know, inflated that. But she again threw, you know, three percent of the vote. Not even all of Māori voted for the Māori party. Look, I think here's the here's the step for you. I don't think most people realise this. So New Zealand first, I think, are the only political party that won all the Māori seats. Yeah. But I think they did it with more than 50 percent of the Māori vote. Yeah. Back in the day. How's that for statistics? How's that for powerful messaging? But yeah, what we've got today doesn't even come close. Yeah, I mean, they got three percent of the total vote, three percent out of 17 percent. It's it's not a mandate. They might have won six of the seats, but it's not a mandate. No. And yet they they have a voice that's larger than they deserve, actually. You know, it's astonishing. I'm just trying to look up those stats from 1996. Can't find them. I'm going to research that one, Lecce. I really look it up because I think that's an important one, you know, that if you want, if you want, yeah, that's right. New Zealand first one, 17 seats sweeping every single Māori electorate, all of which have been nominated by the Labour Party. You know, that was a huge accomplishment. Yeah. And the centres with which they did it as well. Yeah, I mean, it's huge. Yeah, there was 13 percent of the electorate. 13.35 percent double where they are now. Yeah. You know, it just frustrates me now as a commentator, as a as a radio host to see who relies on communication, talking to all parties and things like that, where there seems to be this polarization that's come about in New Zealand society, at least in the last 10 years, certainly in the last six, where if you're not an approved person, you can't you can't speak with them. You know, and it shuts off avenues of discussion. And if we're not discussing and if we're not debating and we're not challenging ideas, then we don't have a contest of ideas. And then we've lost something. And the slide then is towards a homogene of ideas that are approved by, I don't know, some group. Yeah, well, that's the scary part. Homogene of ideas almost sounds nice, doesn't it? Except you're going to have a head to that who's got to approve what those ideas to are and those ideas are. And that is probably the most frightening thing when we look around world history that you could possibly contemplate. Yeah.  There was but you can't go against that. We've seen that with totalitarianism in the 20th century, with the rise of people like Mussolini, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, even Pol Pot in Cambodia, the rise of communism, where you have that homogeny of ideas where the leader is paramount. Nothing good comes of any of that. No, because in all of those cases that was enforced physically through violence and intimidation, you know, so. So, yeah, yeah, no, it's horrible to contemplate what we should be doing is trying to find our commonalities. I think I think the multi-party leaders might be surprised that the parkia neighbors across the way probably experience much of the same struggles as they are right now. And that actually, you know, there's more that unites us than divides us. And we've got to get back to that place and talk that way. Yeah, I mean, and that's that was actually what the result of the election was. It was a rejection of the division that had been fostered by Ardern and then Hipkins. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the media seemed to keep talking about how this government's being divisive and stuff. Well, it didn't start this government. This government is a response to where it began. So, yeah, it's it's very it's going to be let's put it this way. It's going to be interesting for a while. Well, I mean, that brings it, I guess, back to lobbying because the the role of a lobbyist is to have conversations, have an imparting of knowledge where knowledge doesn't exist or hasn't existed before. And that's one of the key roles that I've experienced in watching and interacting with lobbyists over time, looking for solutions to solve particular problems, either for a client or for a group of society or whoever you're representing. And you can only achieve that if you're actually sitting down face to face with the decision makers and being able to argue your point or debate a particular issue. If we cease to be able to do that and, you know, this is where I see these controls coming in, wanting to restrict what lobbyists can say or do or how they act is actually probably going to not destroy the industry but destroy the importance of the discourse that occurs as a result of that. Well, I think some people seem to have in mind that lobbyists only work for big corporate giants, those with lots of money. When I left Parliament, I made contact with Blind Low Vision New Zealand. I'm legally blind and I worked with them when I was in Parliament, thought I hadn't done enough. So I went and said, how can I help? And so I spent the last three years voluntarily helping Blind Low Vision design policy, write draft legislation, try and engage with ministers, both their minister and ministers in the periphery, just to try and tell a story about the inadequacy of the health systems response of people who are struggling with vision. And so, you know, if people understand that Greenpeace is a lobby group or, you know, Blind Low Vision New Zealand is a lobby group, it puts it in perspective that it's not it's not just these big giant corporates. And I'm not saying that that's wrong either. Actually, they they're trying to create business, create jobs, create massive tax revenue for the company, for the country most of the time. So it's a spectrum and it's all about creating understanding in that in that building we call the Beehive. Yeah, all the wasp nest is our listeners like to call it. Well, Fletcher, it's it's been a fascinating little discussion. And I think that the listeners will have a better understanding about the role of lobbyists, that they're not all evil, Machiavellian type people that are seeking to subjugate society. That you actually care deeply about the topics in the clients that you're working for, trying to achieve the same results that people often say they're going to stand for parliament for. There's exactly and it's actually I've noticed that there's a lot of crossovers that as a politician who was an undersecretary and even in the back bench in the day, you're trying to be an advocate and a voice to get in front of ministers and make sure they understand the full picture. So, yeah, man, thanks for the chance to chat. No, no problem. And I'm sure we'll chat again. And the offer goes out to the other members of your team there as well. That if they want to have a chat with the new cam, the nice cam that they probably don't recognize, then I'm all ears. I'm all ears and wanting to have them on the show as well. All right, man, I'll pass the message on. All right, thank you. All right, cheers, Ken. Well, there you have it. A bit of an insight into the dark arts of political lobbying and a little bit extra talking about the overt racism or the allegations of racism of this government. Don't say ever that I've kept you in the dark about how all of these things work. It's a little bit like asking people how sausages are made. If you knew you wouldn't eat them, but now you know how politics works. Tell me your thoughts on what Fletcher had to say by emailing inbox at realitycheck.radio or text to 2057. Thanks for tuning in to RCR, Reality Check Radio. Do you like what you're listening to or dislike what you're listening to? Either way, we want to hear from you. Get in touch with us now. You can text us with your message to 2057. That's 2057 or email us at inbox at realitycheck.radio. We'd love to hear from you, so connect with us today.


Welcome to the Tick Meal Update, I'm Kiana Danielle, the founder of the Investeva movement, only 7 business days left of 2019 and the decade. And we don't have much going on on the economy calendar. Heck, many foreign traders seem to have already checked out for the holidays. But of course, with all the political turmoil going on around the world, anything can change at any moment. The main economic events this week will be Canada's GDP and the U.S. durable goods orders as of now. Today I'm looking at the CAD-EN pair, which got stuck at the 83.53 resistance level again last week. While the pair appears to be in the process of forming a longer-term reversal on shoulder chart pattern, in the medium term it looked like it's turning bearish to form a double top. Perhaps the bulls need some time to regain their energy to be able to break above this key resistance level. This means we could see drops towards the 78% Fubonacci Tracement level of 82.73 perhaps before the new year. Of course, trading in the financial markets involves a risk of loss and you should only trade the money that you can afford to lose. If you liked this video, give it a thumbs up and subscribe to the Tick Meal YouTube channel. I'll get back to you with more updates tomorrow.


We have been covering for several months now the purification of the heart which is a text on spiritual diseases and we're going to just pick up from where we left off the last time we were together and the disease that we're going to talk about today is actually very relevant. In fact, all of the diseases are relevant because of course we are riddled with many, unfortunately many diseases so these are really things that you'll find everywhere in the world at all times. People have had these diseases and that's why this is a process, this process of purification is something that we have to commit to for life but this disease that we're going to cover is actually love of the world and Imam Alud what he has it's a poem that's been translated in English so usually we'll read from the English translation of the poem and then we'll get into the discussion on the topic of what does it mean to love the world. So the verses of the poem are realize also that blame or the love of this world is what is solely for the benefit of the self it does not include desiring it so that others are not burdened by your needs and so that you are secure from dependence upon other people nor does it include desiring it as provision for the next world indeed love of this world falls under the five categories of legal rulings such that it's acceptability or detriment is based on what it helps one to achieve if the love of something of this world is for the purpose of helping one achieve something prohibited then it is also prohibited as such censoring the world is only for those things that do not advance one's salvation thus for these reasons censoring is restricted to its ardent love indeed the best of creation the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam prohibited cursing the world things are praised or censored only by virtue of what results from them like healing or disease therefore what is obtained for one's physical necessities by means of wealth or worldly position is beneficial still some scholars scorn the accumulation of great wealth fearing the risk of transgressing the bounds of permissibility one who earns wealth for the purpose of the glorious competition is reckoned as among those who perpetrate who perpetrate enormities love of praise for what one has not accomplished is caused by desiring other than God exalted so those were about ten verses that have to do with the love of the world now let's you know read the actual definition and the treatment and then we'll get into a discussion here and Islamic tradition attributed to Jesus or Issa alaihi salam states that the world is a bridge so pass over it to the next world but do not try to build on it love of this world is considered blame worthy though this does not include wanting things of this world in order to be free from burdening others with one's needs nor does it include desiring provision from the world for the purpose of attaining the best of the hereafter so again this is you know let's just unpack this concept of the love of the world when we love this dunya you know to the point where we're attached to it and we we don't really see it as a means to an end right that's when it becomes dangerous so this tradition from said nice as teaching us right that we're supposed to see this world as just a means it's that's why we're we're often told to see ourselves as travelers right a traveler has a destination right you're in the motion you're in motion towards a destination but you don't reside when you're traveling right you you're you're visiting you're you're moving but you're not residing so for the motmin or the believer this place is just a place that we have to get through because you know if you read for example imam al haddad you know the five lives of man right or the lives of man it covers the five stages of the soul right that the soul has been created by Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala to to move so we are first created right in the primordial realm where we all did the testimony and attested to you know that that we worship Allah that we will worship Allah and then we move from that to the womb right so there's a movement of the soul to the womb and this is where we are you know the body is fashioned all of our faculties are Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala you know created us in our mother's wombs and there's a period that we have to reside in that part of you know this world and then we are we emerge from the womb into the day right into this lower place this worldly abode and this is the most significant part of our journey whatever we do here determines the rest right so this is the most important part of our leg of they say of the journey of the travel but we are even in motion here because we all know that we can't stay here forever and that's the interesting thing about people who don't believe in a greater you know in something beyond this world those who have no faith those who think we just all kind of accidentally appeared here with no plan or design they don't want to leave this world right they have this very disease that we're talking about you know they have love of the world and that's why there are people who for years they love science not because science is you know a science or an area of study of discovery you know of experimentation of learning there might be that element to it but there are other people who have more you know nefarious intentions with science they want to figure out how we can increase the lifespan of the human being so there's been many efforts throughout history where scientists are looking to cure diseases or create even technology right that would prolong the life expectancy of a human being even now we have many people who are in these different fields of technology and science now joining forces right to have you know a new version of the human being a human being that is blended with science and technology and so there's a lot of ideas around this you know the next evolutionary state of the human being that would bring together you know again science technology and the human body and try to fuse these things together so things like you know AI as we all know about AI right and virtual worlds and all of these different things that are emerging have a lot to do with that but what where does it come from it comes from people who are invested in this dunya to such a degree they do not want to leave because they believe that it's all going to come to an end right that once you die it's just you're in you're dead you go back to the soil and you know you're that's it that's your existence is over and that's all that it meant it was meant for that's certainly not our belief right so that's why the dunya and love of the world is considered a disease of the heart because we don't want to be here forever this place is a place of sickness right we just talked about before we started the haraqa like many of us have been under the weather we know people who've been under the weather there are a lot of things that are spreading and obviously we just came out of a pandemic so we know that this place is there's so much tribulation and hardship and physical pain and suffering and you know grief and loss and uncertainty and instability that comes with dunya right and that is by design right Allah made this a place of hardship so that we don't want to stay here forever but again if you don't remember these things and this is the nature of the dunya is that in addition to being created to cause many issues and problems for us it also has the other side to it where it's very seductive right there are a lot of things in the dunya that make human beings want want to stay right for example wealth right there are many people who live who love the dunya because the wealth that you can accumulate in dunya can allow you to do a lot of things right that are enjoyable you can eat the foods that you want you can you know wear the clothes that you want you can travel to the places that you want when you have wealth so for many people that is a very alluring aspect of dunya and that that's one of the reasons why they love the dunya is that they're in pursuit of wealth right or power right power I mean right now if you're paying attention to what's happening in the world there's a lot of you know power dynamics and you know with between you know nations and people and within nations and just political strife because we love power the human beings are tested with love of power so for some people that's what can be very seductive love itself right there are people who are hopeless romantics and they just are swept away with you know wanting these you know utopian or idyllic existences of just you know what we see in a fairy tale or in a film um or in a book or in a song and that's all they can think about all day they're reading poetry and they're just in la la land you know so there are people like that but you know all this product tells us time and time again that this life is is a test for us so that we can move to the next phase right the next movement of the soul which is death right when we die it's not an end for us it is a movement it's a transition and that's why when we lose people as painful as it is we have to keep in mind that it is a it's a separation of the physical right the physical has been separated but that is not it's not an end to the relationship the relationship will continue but in another realm in another way it's just the separate the physical separation is what death is so we move to the fourth stage of the soul which is death and then in that that's the butter's up right that's where the soul is suspended and waits for the final you know journey for the final part of the of the journey which is the next life and that is the most important right that's the um in terms of you know why we are in existence it's it will be revealed to us you know our ultimate destination and purpose in the next life so again the the this dunia if if we understand this beautiful quote from said naissa it just makes sense it's a bridge you're here for a short time just like you have to cross a bridge to get to another place but don't build because if you build and you put too much hope in this dunia you're going to you know it's going to break you it's going to hurt you but if you realize that you're just here to do what you're supposed to do but you have another destination then you will not attach your heart to the dunia but you'll understand it in the way that we're taught and so the next paragraph now describes how should we see the world right so the five categories of classic a classical legal rulings determine how the love of something worldly is viewed so when we look at the love of the things in the dunia or or the life that we've been given the easiest way to understand how much we can enjoy it or how much we should love it is by applying the five rulings right so for example there are things in this world that we can that we should love right that it would be considered obligatory or wedge up to love like what are things that you can think of that we should all love do you think of something in the dunia well think about you know for example you know the book of Allah right we should love that as Muslims this would be considered something you know wajib on us right or the Kaaba right the sacred city so there are certain things that we should love because of they are worthy of that love right and then there's things that are recommended to love mandu there's things that are permissible mubah reprehensible makruh and then forbidden haram so if you understand these five categories then you can start to put things in your in the in your life according to this these categories right like you know the we should love our parents we should feel devoted to our family right there's that should come from our hearts but then there are other things that you don't necessarily have to love but maybe it would be um you know it would be good for example we should love aspects of the world like we mentioned right the Quran the Kaaba the problems I said them our parents godly people like really good virtuous people books of knowledge right children um people who help us in our religious affairs um as for wealth we should love helping the needy with it so you can love wealth but as long as you love what it allows you to do right like you love the fact that you're able to help people through your wealth that is a healthy attachment it's not that you love the wealth in and of itself and that if you were separated from it it would cause you constriction but you love that it empowers you to be able to do good right the problem is that I'm actually forbade us to curse the world right we can't damn or curse the world to vilify the world he said do not curse the world for god created the world and the world is a means to reaching the knowledge of god matter of all law so even though the world can present with so many problems and a lot of people are not having an easy time in their life right if they if you have problems in your life shaitan and then and your nuffs may make you hate your existence right and hate certain things about your life but that's not a healthy way to look at the world right because you're denying um the blessings right kufran and nama is when you are in denial of the good because all you can see is the bad and this happens to people who hyper focus on the things that are not going the way they want them to and usually that happens because we compare ourselves not to those who have less right but we compare ourselves to those who have more than us and that is the recipe for envy and you know the the slack of gratitude it's just it allows the heart just starts to uh to forget the good and I'll tell you earlier today for example um I was on twitter I think and a video popped up and it was showing these people who are in camps these syrian refugees who are in camps it didn't say the country it just said the syrian you know it was a it was like a a relief campaign for the people of syria right now and it showed something where there were all these people in um in tents and they the rainwater and the snow that's been melting is coming into their tents and so these children young children martial as young as our sister here and others were outside and they were shoveling and with their hands trying to get rid of the water from coming into their tent and you know we're here in in our comforts you know we have very comfortable lives upon online I don't think any of us have ever had to shovel snow and water from getting into our bedrooms you know and into our spaces of eating this is um but so I was watching this video and you know until you see images like that sometimes you become completely unaware and oblivious to how much comfort you have right because I just thought about it I said surprise in the in the short daylight hours that these poor children have because you know the days are short right now they have to shovel snow and water they can't play it's freezing temperatures they're just worried about trying to survive you know the night and here we are we have heaters we have comfortable beds and you know blankets and pillows and refrigerators full of food and toys to play with and books and televisions and devices and I just you just start you know forgetting that that's not everybody's experience in the world right now simultaneously as we are sitting here or from our homes in our comfortable clothing there are many people who are suffering so until you do that exercise of either witnessing it or reminding yourself then you'll just look to you know all the people that have more than you whether they're in your family right because we know that there are people who are walking around very bitter because their siblings have more than them they're you know their in-laws are doing better than them their neighbors their friends from school whoever it was and you just fill your heart you know and then social media doesn't help that because all you do all days watch everybody else's life and then compare yours to them so there's too much of the opposite happening where we are looking to people who we think have more and we're filled with ingratitude and envy and then we're not doing you know this where we're actually really calling in you know on to Allah and thanking him for all of his blessings so you know this we this world has you know we're here for for the purpose of getting closer to Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala so we can't just focus on the hardships of it we have to appreciate everything that we have as something that will help us to draw closer to him so that's a really important point when we talk about the dunya for those who are struggling you know not to go to the opposite extreme we don't love the world but we don't also allow ourselves to hate the world the muslim is in the middle right we have we exist we have to be here so we have to participate in the world we have to work for the sake of Allah we provide for our families we learn we are part of our community we have to be in the world in that sense but we do not have to love the the dunya to the point where we forget the akhira and that's that middle that balance is is where a lot of us are struggling right to find the balance because again the dunya can make us go in either direction if we don't have Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala in our lives so the Qur'an states here that he has subjugated for you what is in the heavens and what is on earth all of it is from him indeed there are sure signs for people who reflect the world is the greatest sign of Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala as is the cosmos we do not accept the doctrine of condemning the world which is found in some religious traditions we say that he created everything in the world and has subjugated its resources for our just and conscientious use what is censured is loving those things that are sinful or that lead to sinful matters and loving the ephemeral aspects of the world to the point that it suppresses one's spiritual yearning so even in love of the world we should understand the balance that we can love for example you know like the heavens right the stars the planets everything in existence all the beautiful aspects of the Allah's creation we can absolutely love those things you know if you love trees or flowers or butterflies or you know waterfalls or anything in nature animals you know we can love all of that because it's all those are all Allah created those are signs for us right to look around and appreciate the diversity of his creation and it really is something to behold when you think about how many species of bugs there are and how each of them keep the our ecosystems in balance right if you think about all the different animals in the air and on land and sea and the fact that there are even many scientists who say there are there are creatures out there that have yet to be discovered like the ocean is so deep there are creatures we have never even discovered yet that that's what a universe the ocean is right in and of itself inside the you know the planet is is a universe of its own and then so all of these things should create in us a love of Allah and so because of that reason we can love them because they help us to you know have that deep appreciation right for for him because he's the one who created us and even in our own bodies I mean just think about your own body and how it's capable of doing so many incredible things right you know sometimes you know I was I don't know how many of you are familiar with Wim Hof you know Wim Hof is a he's a known I don't know if like what to call him but he's a he's someone who's very known in terms of his ability to he's mastered sort of regulation of his body temperature and he does breathing exercises and he really teaches about how to build your immunity using cold he's got great videos but I was watching his video this morning on this breathing exercise that he does he does you know it's good for just getting your breathing training your your breath and you know SubhanAllah how many of us think about how you know these are processes that we don't even have to think about like you're taking a breath we're taking breaths all day every day and the heart is just doing its its job and function the lungs you know they're just operating and they're doing these incredible things like the amount of toxins that our kidneys and liver is purging every single day we don't program it we're not you know like okay liver do your job you know I just I ate really bad food can you please get rid of all the bad stuff you know or kidneys we don't do that it's doing it for us right and the fact that Allah has created this perfect system it's like you know it's all coordinated and they're they're all in communication with each other and nobody's doing anything like we're not thinking about those things right but they're being done Allah sustaining us so these are ways that we should really you know appreciate our creation and the world that Allah's given us but what we don't do again is attach our hearts to those things that are blame worthy that are that you know carry us away from from God right so now for example there are many people who are completely obsessed with technology right technology is good you know we can say there's good in technology right there's been a lot of advances there's been a lot of hair but there's also a lot of destruction so you have to be able to know the balance but you know think of all the people who they cannot for example separate themselves from video games right there's entire you know God knows Allah knows how many people who are so addicted and so in love with the video game culture that that is their entire life they spend their money right on video games they go to conferences they'll travel all over the world I remember watching a documentary stuff well I mean I couldn't believe this was quite shocking but that these it was a country it was an Asian country I can't actually can't remember which country but these people were so addicted to video games that they would not they wouldn't go use the restroom they would actually they were adults they would use adult diapers and sit in their own excrement and filth because the addiction to leave the game was so high they wouldn't do it and I just I was it was a doctor and I was shocked I said there's no way but that's what happens when people who obsess over certain things they lose their mind in a way right because you you're you're gone I mean you can't if you're not even willing to to tend to your own body's needs starve yourself or prevent yourself from using you know the restroom and clearly there's something off there but this is the danger right of attaching yourself to something without you know some sense of of balance like what am I doing here what's my purpose so whether it's video games or film or music how many people are obsessed with music or cards you know like pokemon pokemon was like a it still is for some people you know the people have lost their lives because they've spent their savings on trying to get pokemon cards or you know they go gamble or do whatever but these are the things that the dunia can seduce us with but also can lead to our destruction and that's where the believer has to know there's a time and place for everything right we're allowed to enjoy the world we're allowed to enjoy certain things entertainment as long as it's in moderation and it's not haram but the moment we allow these things to dictate to us where we're willing to forego sleep we're willing to forego you know our responsibilities we don't do our prayers right we're completely missing important things that's when we've lost the balance and that's what the love of the world can do it can get you to attach yourself to things and obsessions where you completely forget your lord right you forget allah you forget why you were meant you know why you were created and so the balance is again understanding those five categories what's permissible what I should what's you know reprehensible mccrew or forbidden and and kind of organizing your attachments in those five categories that's how you find a balance right and so then he goes on to say the imam imam al-malud says that the love of the world is praised or blamed based on what good or harm it brings to a person if it leads to a diseased heart such as greediness or arrogance then it's blameworthy if it leads to spiritual elevation and healing of the heart it is praiseworthy anything that is obtained from the necessities of living on earth food housing shelter and the like is beneficial and is not considered worldly per se attaining wealth and position for the benefit of the needy is not considered blameworthy what scholars traditionally have warned against with regarding to attaining wealth is the danger of eventual transgression the more wealth one acquires the higher the probability that one will become preoccupied with other than god also vying for wealth can become an addiction and lead to ostentation which is showing off and that's considered a disease of the heart as well so those are the you know all the qualifiers of what worldly love can mean right and we all have to understand that how to distinguish distinguish between them love of praise which is another disease particularly the love of praise for something one has not done is also another disease this is caused by desiring something from other than god people naturally love praise but it should be for something one has actually done and this is important to think of our world today you know a lot of people are taking credit for things that they they don't do and there's a lot of unethical you know behavior there's cheating that goes on there's plagiarism that goes on so there are people who like you know the attention that they get by just copying other people social media this is very common you know you'll have people who have youtube for example influencers tiktok instagram who create their entire pages you know doing things and then you'll have ripoffs you know someone who comes along and rips off their exact idea no credit is given so there's a lot of that kind of stuff and they're the ones you know who benefit financially and otherwise so that's stuff has been happening for a long time but it's a disease of the heart to whatever praise for something you didn't do right we should be very careful to seek that attention furthermore the cause of praise should be something that is praiseworthy in the sight of god it is not necessarily wrong to want people to appreciate what one has done when the prophesiesome learned of the good that someone had done he would say may god reward you with goodness one must make the distinction between flattery and appreciation the prophesiesome said throw dirt in the faces of flatterers those who pour accolades upon others worthy or not like poets who compose appallingly obsequious poetry poetry praising a tyrant but praising or thanking someone for doing good is expressing gratitude the prophesiesome said whoever is not thankful to people will not be thankful to god so flatter on the other hand is being disingenuous with praise people often praise others because they want something from them what is particularly blameworthy is when people enjoy receiving praise for something they have not done and Allah says do not think that those who rejoice in what they have done and who love to be praised for what they have not done do not think that they will escape punishment theirs shall be a painful chastisement this is chapter 3 verse 188 for example in academia some professors receive tribute for work their students actually did in the corporate culture it is not unheard of for managers to be credited for the accomplishments of a team of people to whom the managers sometimes attribute nothing so these are just speaking again to diseases that can arise from the love of the world right that you can actually start to seek praise seek you know attention for things you didn't do because you're seeking ultimately what something from other than Allah right and that's the danger of all of these things is that it takes you away from the remembrance of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala which is why it's considered um you know a disease of the heart and there's another hadith that I think really complements this well uh the prophecy said and said and this is um according to abdulla ibn masud uh who reported that he said that the prophecy said whoever absorbs his heart in love of the world will be entangled by three things misery that will not cease to discomfort him greed that will not achieve his independence and vain hopes that will never reach their end for the world is seeking and is sought whoever seeks the world the hereafter will pursue him until death comes to him and it seizes him whoever seeks the hereafter the world will pursue him until he exhausts his provisions from it so that's a really powerful reminder for us that if you allow your heart to get attached from this world this is what you're going to be you know faced with you'll have misery you will not find comfort if you and if you look at people who are really wealthy like a lot of these celebrities that you would think they have at all but why are half of them or more than half of them you know addicted to some sort of a substance in therapy many of them you know just yesterday there was a very famous person who ended his own life and it was shocking to the to all the celebrities use it right and it was a it was huge because he would go on and he acted like everything was so happy in his life right but he ended up taking his own life so clearly something is wrong right the worldly life doesn't promise what we think it does you know you see these people you think wow they have cars they have homes they can vacation wherever they want their families they have everything why are they miserable what's wrong with them if you don't have Allah right good luck getting through this junior it is a very hostile place to the person who doesn't have Allah in in their life and so misery will will be your existence and then greed that will never that you'll never be able to free yourself from because you know the process reminds us that the mouth of the Son of Adam is never full until when we're in our grave and it's filled with the dirt of our grave meaning we're very greedy by nature so you know you give a person something and there's always this feeling that you know where's the rest you know it could be more right that's just the nature of the human being we're always looking for more and then the last thing is that will vain hopes that will never reach their end so just having empty you know hopes because again with the dunya there's there's a lot of um when the more material for example wealth or or other things that you acquire you start to think that you can do more and more and more but you know we can have noble dreams we can wish to to help a lot of people and do a lot of good but at the end of the day if our path isn't about us and Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala then none of that is really worth anything right because sometimes people get lost they'll have money and wealth and ambition and they'll go and you know open schools and orphanages and help this group and that group but then they're not taking care of their own soul you know they'll be flying from this point to this point but then if you ask them you know do you read Quran daily are you praying are you doing dhikr because it's delusion right it's like you start to feel really important people call on you they need your help so you get a lot of people who are who can get so wrapped up in in the um you know the optics you know it's like I have money I have power people expect me to do these things um and so then it becomes part of their identity right so it's like I'm I should be giving I should be building I should be doing things but are you actually taking care of your soul you know are you doing the things that you you need to be doing and that's the danger without with with you know not rooting yourself in in your faith first and falling into the traps of the dunya so you know the the love of dunya is a very serious disease of the heart and the process I'm warned us to that during the end of time there's going to be two reasons why the muslim is is weak you know we will have great numbers right we are mashaAllah the most fastest largest growing religious community in the world we tend to have larger families you know more than other people of other backgrounds we see our countries the populations are rising you know other countries like in europe and throughout they have population decline right so we definitely have numbers but why are we so weak right why are muslims in many parts of the world in a weak position he warned us why two things he said one we have excessive love of the world right and two we have a fear or or antipathy toward death and this is the problem of the modern era the muslims we've lost our way we've attached ourselves to dunya right we've and you know I noticed this when I first traveled to the muslim world over 20 years ago and it was really shocking for me because as a westerner I thought I'm going to go to the muslim world and I'm just going to see these devout beautiful muslims everywhere we're going to have so much joy you know praying and listening to the Quran and you know they were like shocked that I prayed five times a day and I wore hijab and they actually asked me like you're in America and you wear hijab why like and I was shocked that they were asking me that but then I realized because what was I seeing everywhere I went everywhere I went were satellite televisions on their homes even when I would go into the rural areas where there were camps you know people didn't even have homes but they had satellite dishes in the camps in the refugee camps so what they were doing is and this is you know you know what you know what we would say uh colonialism imperialistic powers what they did they you know exported western culture into our lands right so you see all over the muslim world people tuning in to everything american or european or australian and we just forgot that we have this beautiful gift of Islam so then you start looking to you know the the fame and the you know wealth and the riches and all the stuff that american culture was exporting you know through film through songs through media and we start abandoning our own way of dress we start abandoning our own cultures adopting western clothing western music styles all of it just got lost right and so subhanAllah we have the numbers but we lost our our love for our deeds so this is where the challenge is and that's why you know attaching our hearts to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala requires that we really examine our relationship with the dunya and if we have attachments with the dunya we have to start realizing none of it's going to matter we're going to all go six feet under our time will come or we have to leave this world none of it's going to come with us but what comes with us is those are those deeds right the prayers the waking up when your body is so exhausted and tired and you're just like yallah i want to sleep but you force yourself up and you get up and you you pray your inshallah at the hadjad and i just you know you're you're a fudger for sure but you get up even earlier and you do your at the hadjad or you know when you're you have a choice you to watch television or film and just get lost but you instead you know watch a beneficial talk you know or a khutba or learn something you know or you take out your phone and you go on tiktok and scroll but you say no i i should read Quran i didn't read anything today i need to read the book of Allah so this is what you know is asked of us to really prioritize inshallah so alhamdulillah that was the the topic for today um and i think we have we have our sultana isha is actually going so inshallah we can we can end we'll go ahead and just do a dua and then you will you guys can join the prayer so thank you so much inshallah we will um continue next after the new year with the halakas inshallah and uh after prayer i'll be leaving but if you had any follow questions you can always message me inshallah thank you salam aleykum


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