So, we'll get started and I know that I think we are the last family to do as freedom, so we won't take, we'll keep it crisp. But I think we have a power pack, you know, full house here today and very good representation all the way from funds to exchanges, you know, exchange investment platforms to accelerators to enterprise investment platforms. So, I'm very excited about it. So, I think what we can start with is quick intros and maybe we can start with a compilation for all three years. Why don't we start with intros, maybe what your enterprise does, what is your investment thesis? Hi, I'm this compilation, I'm co-founder of Histricated. And we are at least stage VCCN, more focusing on the enterprise, Web3 and Fintech companies, not especially looking for the crypto and the end of the company. And my previous background, I was a CTO when blockchain started earlier and lead the hyperlager India and advisor to a few companies, especially in CBDC and Fintech. Hello, I'm Shauna. I'm the head of Web3 Fabric. I've been in the blockchain space for more than 10 years now. At Brink, we are a venture accelerator. We've been around since 2014. We've done more than 15 investments in Web3. My thesis is on Bitcoin space, deep pin, cloud computing and GPU compute. That's the spaces I'm really focusing on and very excited about. Hello, my name is Darshan Jain. I'm the founding partner of SunEyken Ventures. It's an early stage VC based out of Mumbai. The sector agnostic is a fund but we try investing in tech-based companies that are looking to cause a disruption. From an educational background point of view, I'm an engineer. I'm Parth. I'm with CoinSwitch Ventures. So it's a corporate VC arm of CoinSwitch. And basically the idea is to support the Indian Web3 ecosystem. So we've been doing early stage investments, pre-seen seed runs, and also opening up the Indian ecosystem to global capital. So we've created a very strong partner VC network where we're trying to get in bigger funds interested in Indian deals. Hi, I'm Lovit. I'm from CoinDCX and CoinDCX Ventures.  We do invest early stage only in Web3 and invest globally. Hi, this is Ravi Sravastav. I present Leo Capital here. What we again, similar to what some of our friends are doing, we are a broad-based technology seed investor. Web3 is one of the focus areas that we invest in. Broadly speaking, we invest in enterprise VW SaaS. We do fintech. We do some gaming logistics. So it's a broad gamut that we are focused on primarily at the seed and sometimes pre-seed stage. Awesome. And very quick intro. So I am from world less capital. We are currently deploying from three wagons. First in deep end, cross-chain infrastructure space, and third is a little bit. So I think with that, why don't we jump in, you know, I think very different perspectives. So maybe we can start with you, Ravi. From your lens, what are some of the trends which you are seeing in the Web3 space of all the business space in general and focus from the side? Sure, sure. But so in terms of trend, I know in the previous panel, there was a significant discussion around a couple of things that I had noticed common threads. One is the ETF launch, which has been a catalyst for the price action. Right. Let me add just a little bit of color on that. EDF launch in the US, that was highly anticipated event. The assets under management. So for, that's a very small anecdotal data point, but for the BlackRock ETF, right, and Rohit, you would know this very well, it went to $10 billion in under two months of launch. Now, and it broke some records. And guess what the record previous was? It was the Gold ETF, which has taken a little over two years to hit that same milestone. So that speaks a little bit about the, about the velocity with which now the industry is moving. The second, the trend that we are seeing, and again, just like previous panelists, you know, it's not really about the price action. It's about what validation it brings into the space. That has been great. I think a lot of the questions around, you know, this is a great power sink or it is for nefarious actors, all those questions have been subdued actually in the last year or so, but certainly after the ETF launch. So it has fairly legitimized the industry in some senses. The second part that was again listening to the previous panel about compliance and regulation, right. So we have multiple countries looking at compliance. Of course, there was a lot of discussion. I'm not going to repeat that around India and how the Indian government is looking at it. There are certain very specific, so Europe is a little bit ahead. It's not the best one, but the Mika regulations came out and it at least sets a path forward. It gives, you know, some light at the end of the tunnel in terms of here is an asset class, here is a new technology. We're all going to interact with it in some way, shape, or form. And here are the, you know, the basic guardrails around it. Again, so that's an increasing trend. If you can call that. Most countries are going to have some sort of regulation around it, which ties a little bit again in the CBDC space, you know, perhaps, I think a large majority of countries are looking at CBDCs in some way, shape, or form. It's to experiment with it, whether or not they will launch one is a different aspect. But nearly 90 plus percent of the world's GDP today is actually involved in some way, shape, or form reviewing that technology. So that's an increasing trend. Again, governments are very closely looking, you know, 19 out of the top 20 G20 countries have very close, you know, some sort of pilot, some sort of, you know, angle to a CBDC today. So regulatory, I think, tailwinds, if we may say, are an increasing trend in the space. And again, in the past, it's been very difficult. The U.S., fortunately still, you know, they kind of regulating by litigation in some senses. And there are some more regulations coming out. The Congress is considering a stable coin bill that might get passed in some fashion later this year. That'll be a big boost to USD based stable coins, which, by the way, are becoming very fundamental in terms of how capital and tokens move around the crypto ecosystem. So that'll be a very positive sign as well. So that's more on the broader crypto trend space. I think a few things in the Web 3, you know, DeFi space or, let's say, the token build-out space that we are seeing again is, I think we're at this inflection point to borrow the term again from previous panelists. We have infrastructure that is almost ready. Now, last year, we were here and, Roy, you remember we were talking about, you know, a lot of the inputs are going into infrastructure building and so on. It is not perfect today, but I think a lot of the entrepreneurs in the space spent a fair bit of time during the downturn, you know, heads down building it. And today, I think we're seeing sparks of application-level build on top of the infra build-out that has been out there. Things like, you know, let's say Eigenlayers are making extremely easy to, you know, to have security posture from the Ethereum underlying layer, right out the box, for instance. This is one example, which so you don't have to build out and worry about the entire security layer and still can get in a way on top.   So some of these are very interesting. I'll stop there, maybe just one last thing about AI that I mentioned. AI has been the rage, all the rage last year, year and a half. But that's a very centralizing technology, so to speak. We can talk more about that later. But there's a, you know, we feel the crypto-webtree space works as a decentralizing counterbalance to that. And then the variety of ways that we can do that prove provenance, prove incentives, or allocate incentives.  But I think that's going to be very important going forward as well. You're talking about key investment themes this cycle? Investment themes. And from your lens, how do you see this year-over layout? Sure. I mean, the second question is easy to answer. We're clearly in a bull cycle, at least until the end of this year, who knows about next year. But some investment themes that we're excited about, one is of course, restaking. A lot of interesting activity happening there, a lot of creativity, a lot of innovative startups starting in that space. Related to that is the data availability layer. So restaking and data availability are two themes that we're very excited about. Other than that, I think another space which kind of came at us from the left field is Bitcoin L2s. So there is a massive amount of innovation happening on the Bitcoin L2s. And I think Bitcoin L2, some of them are already out there in the test net phase. And I think they are a very realistic probability. And I think for certain use cases, Bitcoin L2s may actually do better than ETH L2s or the oil L1s as well. So those are some themes that we're excited about. Other than that, there is innovation across the board. Totally agree on the first part, in terms of the market is in a bull run. And there is a lot of experience back. I think the meme coin pump that happened in the last two weeks is a clear sign that a lot of people who made money in BTC are probably rotating into these altcoins and meme coins. So that's something that we'll see. I think it's going to be a highly volatile year for crypto. But post-all-time highs, I think the halving event is going to be like a major trigger for what happens next. Ethereum also is going to have its own separate interesting period after the tanking upgrade next week. So excited about the market structure in general. On the investment theme, so we look across Web 3 and I think now we've reached that stage where onboarding people is not that much of an issue. Like in the last cycle, getting new users was tough, chains couldn't handle traffic. Now I think both these problems are sort of almost near completion. And now we'll start seeing masses get into this phase. So I think one of the big triggers for that is going to be gaming. Web 3 gaming always lagged in terms of gameplay if you see it to normal games. But some projects from two years back are now launching their AAA games. GTA 6 is supposed to come out next year. All of this is going to be a big trigger for the Web 3 gaming space. And other projects which are non-financial in the sense that they reward you for engagement or they reward you for viewership. I think those kinds of themes can also really pick up because crypto enables it. Like the underlying blockchain technology can enable such new creator economies. So the social 5 space, gaming 5 space, these are two things that I'm really like purish on. Infrastructure continues to like keep getting built. I think Duncan upgrade will really help other layer tools as well to really bring down costs and speed up transactions. So I think from an infrastructure point of view, we'll be in a very safe space to compete with Web 2 in this year sometime. And that is when the real explosion of users comes on. One sector that I'm really personally interested about is privacy and security. I think one trend that we have seen in India in the past 10 years have been with the increase in the amount of internet, for example, that's available to everyone. We've seen the amount of data that has become digital. And suddenly we see so many organizations that actually care about what kind of practices are around data. So similar to how we have regulations around in, for instance, GDPR, we see DB, DBA also come up in India. And I feel any kind of, for instance, an idea that can help organizations in making sure that they're being compliant and kind of somewhere around that theme will potentially make a big impact. And I would also agree with Ravi what he mentioned about regulations, because I think you always want to be on the right side of it. And even as part mentioned about infrastructure, focusing on scalability, particularly at this point of time, even if you're building on, for Leo to instance, will be very interesting space. I think everyone's covered most of the spaces we're interested in. But we personally, I'm very, very deeply interested in the Bitcoin space, surely because of the size of it. Now for so many years, it did not have smart contract functionality. That's why it was all this untapped potential. So usually when you're building out, building out a product in a particular sector, we look at the time and then we go down to figure out your song. Now if your time is Bitcoin, that's a very, very big market to work in. So that's some, that's a space purely just from an investment point of view, I'm really interested in. But other than that, every year there's a theme to it. Now this year's theme is move as much of competition and data off chain as possible. The CEO of Rcaster has put it really delicately that putting everything on chain is undesirable and unwanted. So figure out if it is really required and only put that much on chain. Already most of things covered but what we are looking so we are actually mostly work with starters where we technically and business wise can help because we come from the technology background. Myself as the CEO of the previous company and another founder and partner has a huge experience in the industry. So the companies where we work we try to find out whether we can help with them not just money but about in terms of scaling their business. So the current theme we are currently working with some digital asset or some tokenization of fund or CBDC offline CBDC which is a emerging but obviously there's a need because the RBI and the central governments in the world is promising the applicability out. So the startup we're building in this area and where we can help them to get a business we are looking at. I think one thing again given the diversity of the panel because it's very difficult to get folks representing this diverse area of web 3 together. So one thing which I think will help the audience is maybe we can start from you. For each of you maybe with an enterprise mindset how are you looking at now right now from an enterprise mindset the startups which are happening maybe against some key hits or misses and what are you seeing from your lens in the web 3 space from an accelerator mindset from the exchange and again from a fund. So actually I started my blockchain journey with enterprise blockchain itself so as a part of the IBM blockchain team in 2016 I started as a developer on the attempt to build solution and use case from the day one in the blockchain space. So I seen the growth of the ecosystem maybe in the media we more talk about the web 3 crypto and other stuff but technically a lot is different during the last 8 years. I even seen the companies who even went to series A level even yesterday there is a company calling DCO they are used the high-paying ledger, Indie is a member they recently raised around 20 to 30 million dollars in series funding and it's not a crypto it's simply how you can solve the verifiable credential ecosystem using the blockchain. So this kind of use cases I know some CPDC platform companies in the early but they already have a 20 to 30 million revolution. So this question and use cases around agriculture or supply chain facility even we seen some failed startup like we dot and trade lens maybe use the data governance and others but obviously there are ecosystem is there and there are many use cases happening when I work in personal level company for consulting network to them where we are trying to solve the root cross root cross ecosystem in a traceability of the let's be productivity. So this kind of use case happening and I think this is and I believe in going to be next 5 years we see the more use cases around the enterprise blockchain we other people differ but then I pass my point. So from my background and my experience I've run a lot of companies in like all those gimmicky businesses okay anything that wasn't trained when investors were happy about I was building that those did not work out then I went into building a really boring business in a in commercial real estate which is like a proctech and fit tech mix damn boring I used to get bored but that did really well I got an exit it turns out it works really well that's where the money is made since then I'm really looking for companies that are not in hype that maybe nobody cares about users would never know about that are actually able to make money that are actually able to capture value sometimes a layer would not be able to make money but it's actually capturing value rollups will never make money that they cannot capture value but it's like the thing that everyone's going to invest in. So I'm looking for those businesses where there's a potential that even if they don't raise the next round they would still be able to at least get me a 10x return if not 100. From my perspective in terms of certain hits and misses is what I would answer certain investments that we've made have particularly focused upon there have been few that have been focusing on infrastructure where they want to make sure they can be scalable as a system there have also been a few in the meta space that kind of allow other companies that are traditionally in the web 2 space to enter into web 3 we've also seen certain companies that are kind of focusing around the privacy and security that has earlier spoke about in the supply chain space or in the agri-tech space as well but at this point it's kind of early to tell if they'll be hits or misses. As a part of the corporate we see it's a very different lens that we apply in terms of making the investments I think primarily the goal of the fund is to grow the ecosystem in India and that's how like we're like you know structured ourselves a little more collaboratively compared to like let's say the rest of the industry like I share a deal flow with over 150 vcs then this is network that has been set up with the last like one and a half years we started off like you know with about seven vcs we were also our investors and we said that you need more eyeballs on early stage Indian projects there was a lot of tourist money in the space I think in the last bull market which left like a lot of web 2 funds who had started tabling into web 3 they have also started coming back now so I think this cycle will be different in that sense that we'll have more long-term money enter the space and we want to be you know the channel partners for them to discover like good projects in the country. Building is not strong I would say one and a half years we've talked over 400 projects in the country who are building in web 3 so easy to say that with our developer strengths India's already the third largest web 3 developer market if the right kind of you know venture capital or like you know in general like you know liquidity enters the space we can create some world-meeting companies here. From our perspective also being in exchange and two things one completely echo our thought around supporting the ecosystem growth in India but beyond that even when you think about global protocols you know anytime a global protocol wants to enter India and no global protocol will be able to ignore India in the times to come you know a couple of years they will have to come into India for one reason or the other we do have the largest retail crypto base in the world it is going to be one of the largest crypto markets in the world and at that point when these global protocols want to tap the Indian market then who better to partner with than one of the you know leading kind of exchanges which is one if focused on not only Indian protocol than Indian builders but also global protocols because we see that web 3 in general is much more borderless than web 2 was it's a lot more you know international than web 2 was so you know we're just being a little bit more flexible on that one. Actually so we have a few I'm sure there's lots of misses actually and I'm happy to talk about that I you know how many hours you got but in terms of so what Darshan also mentioned I think about infrastructure we are there is one company for instance and I'll take that as just an example and and build out on top of it this company called Zee we we invested two and a half or years ago maybe three now they were helping you know set out node operations for different operations or different you know projects as they're coming online you know again this infrastructure that you want to be able to plug into and not have to you know worry about the entire security or or the you know the cycles and so on so forth that has done well and I think businesses like those have generally done well again the new cycle now they're you know the building of the node operations they're adding roll-ups to their mix of product line that they have again from a very very you know basic infrastructure level that you can plug in and start building on top of it those companies I think we continue to be excited about although now going forward we think that we will have more of this what I said before a boom in applications this one company and I wouldn't call it a pure well three company but it's a gaming company real money gaming company and one of the primary use cases today for them is is slow trading based games and that has done extremely well across the globe it's still very very early days as well trading leagues they are you know the goal is to actually educate about financial markets and surprisingly we talk about web three and crypto being very early and not many people know aware of it but actually if you look across the globe even you know traditional financial markets is not as much participation as there could be so so taking that broad example and and educating the masses about this asset class not just crypto but maybe equity asset class taking a gaming approach to that I think that is one application that we're very excited about in terms of misses again there are months there was one that I had made an investment actually I missed in this company called bitwise end up making an investment in their fund itself about things from the asset manager itself and if even if they've done really well they've been one of the leading asset managers for within the web three crypto ecosystem very dedicated asset manager in the space so that space also we're excited about generally speaking we've seen a few you know to the last point I think there is there is a new generation of folks who will come in and invest in the space even if they don't participate on a very you know granular level but they would say okay let me allocate some capital and see how it grows so that itself is a use case you know people say speculation is a use case you know investment is a use case of crypto and I think that's due to growth so investing in perhaps asset managers if you find the right out in some ways or something and so I think we're also coming through maybe I'll ask one more question so I just want to get a quick show of hands how many founders is okay so I think one question I want to ask specifically to the founders so maybe again for people who started with you is when you are here in the pitch what is it that you know sometimes gosh there is this is a question that we deeply think about all of that every day actually so in terms of when we say what makes us super excited of course you know there's the founder market fit and there is you know have you thought about the problem deeply enough have you learned enough that clearly you should be educating me in the room right that's my goal I should be in the seat where I'm learning from the founder but predominantly there is typically when there is this this sign of seeing the future this is very cliche are they seeing the future are they saying that this is how it will end up being rather than saying that oh we try this we try that you know the parts can't differ and they will surely differ but in terms of the goal of the problem that they're trying to solve that should be very very clear and you've seen time again if you know anytime you've compromised in that for one reason or another that investment hasn't gone very well so it's a clear sign in terms of what pulls us away again I think if it's given that free space has been criticized in the past for this you know like a hammer looking for a nail right just I have the solution where can I apply it I think that that approach even though you might actually find the right name and you have the right hammer but the approach of looking for the name because you have the hammer I think that you know pulls us away from that approach it's it's really have you identified the right nail you know right that has to go to and why it's important what picture you're hanging on that nail and therefore you need to put this hammer I think that's very important I think there's some table state things that every VC looks at you know it's the quality of the founder the side of the problem statement so those are daily states right there's no getting away from it beyond that I think what it sites me is a unique intuition or a unique insight that typical people don't have or or at least I would have so that's certainly one thing that it sites me a unique insight or an intuition that's number one and number two what I find the same especially amongst the three founders to be very honest is a view of the competitive landscape where three is the global guys very natured and it's it's way more competitive than that too you know there could be a fantastic team building us very similar products somewhere you know in a small corner of the world but you need to be aware of that and I find that every founders don't do the enough diligence from a competitive landscape model so those are two things that stand out for me which is a unique insight or an illusion or and number two especially in the battery space being aware of the competitive landscape and similarly they don't have these two things you know I'm a little less excited totally I think each stage investing is more hard than science like there are four broad things that I look at like from the team or team and probably tech there is very strong tech mode that comes in and in all these four I think still the stand out is the team so I think both are the positive and the negative side positive side if you know that this founder is trying to build something which hasn't been built before you must pack them and you get that feeling you get that sense of when you see like you know somebody is sort of like front run the wave which might come because the impression pack so I think there if you come across somebody who's building that with that spark you should pack them and try to build a new case on this rather than I still know that on similarly on the downside I think and even now at that point in the cycle where founders start saying no due diligence questions or they're like you're writing a small check hundred people don't know like you know so many people's I think that for me is a clear good sign that they probably don't know their business that well that they're not ready to answer it or they're just trying to like you know if there's some perseverance in the market like you know they're getting money for not really the product that they actually built and which can be like you know cross question to the point of any investor's questions and again like I know enhanced you are totally different volumes but we are at this point again where this happened in the last market also where paper ideas used to raise me I just so great points are covered over there that I was going to talk about but to reiterate I think it's very important for the founding team to have complementary skills that kind of help each other out and what kind of gets me really excited is when the founder comes up to me and provides a great insight as you know some of the mention that kind of gives you another idea as to how big or how big a particular idea can be that you don't know about and in terms of red flags or even yellow flags are when you know you just don't answer questions in a simple way and you try complicating them and also for instance one thing that particularly strikes out for me is if you don't only have a good amount of calculation to support what the market size of a particular idea is so like everyone said we have like standard hygiene measures that we do we have certain boxes that we need to take first post that since it's all early stage investments maybe we don't even have a product no traction forget revenue so we definitely look for a good team and a team that we can also work with maybe they have something a solid team they have had run previous businesses even if they did not work out they have worked out three if it's an obnoxious problem I will not work with you and the timing as they said timing is very important so if you are too early or you're too late you're still wrong so timing is very very important so I think every founder should know how to say it that is most important even I have a technology guy but I'll give more letters to sales and the adaptive nature of the founder because if he able to learn from his mistakes because I'll say many founders like they believe in the letter there's so much whether even they're realizing they are not able to convert the business but it's still more whether you overconfident whether you don't want to accept so how to say it is more important on that and off to the environment let's say this product is not working this will be able to tweak the pure and technology can scale and build later any time even like the past life with paper I guess did funding so that is not the same nature like how the founders would able to explain how they would be saying their product awesome awesome so I think great great thoughts guys I think I I wrote that everyone learned first and for the y'all which is to learn so with that why don't we just open it up to the audience so maybe a couple of questions yeah so anybody just raise your hand and we can give them this there is someone particularly want to direct the question to you can do it like maybe on the exchange side or all of it I'm a part of the crypto venture studio and we have all the state's crypto potentiaries capital and what my experience has been in this cycle is that these things are prioritizing already exists with the lower than average trade and they're more interested in tokens than a crypto so because they're basically want to capitalize on this bull market and make a lot of losses for the crypto meter so my question for you is what are your investment pieces on exits and what will help you timeline for a busy project and should projects focus on tg's and idios to make money early on or near the actual product development cost thanks so I think that if you got it correct the question is basically you on exit timeline for exit and should the focus be on teaching investing okay so so when we're talking about these companies we're referring to web 3 companies coming to us right so when web 3 companies come to us they come at a web 3 premium okay that is basically whatever normally we would value a company as as soon as they've added the web 3 term they've added a very high premium to the valuation and if we have taken the risk of investing in it we expect a quick turnaround because that's the risk we've taken for that higher valuation so of course we will be looking for an exit potential we are also a business we are also looking to make profits for our investors so to answer your question yes we also care about our exits but it's not which exits we look for that depends on the founder the founder who comes to us is the one who decides the tokenomics how our besting schedule will be like we come to agreement and if the founder has already agreed to a particular besting schedule that gives me a quick exit is that on me or is it on the founder if we can just add one point again it depends on where you are in the second I think last one and a half years there were only equity rounds also with token warrants there's no like clear cut tokenomics in place because nobody wanted to launch a token like one year down one year in the past nobody wanted to do it and now the cycles have turned around everybody wants to launch token which will probably get like a market gap and again besting schedules are pretty tight like most of them have like very little amount that is free for selling at PG and then there's like a year investing over like a year period so I think as long-term investors and strategic investors we are like in it for at least a two year time frame if you need an investment maybe just to add to that you know tokens I don't think every project should have a token so a lot of projects come and say that they want to launch a token but it's not clear that that project should ever have a token so that is one big question marked in my mind that said the projects that do have tokens of course we love it you know it gives us early liquidity because bc is a game where it can take 10-15 years before you get liquidity so there are certain projects which gives us early liquidity absolutely love it you know as we were just saying that you know we're at the business of giving returns to our investors and this gives us liquidity so next question right this is one of those thank you so much for that enlightening discussion my question is really just a venture investment one-on-one question so you mentioned that the timing of your investment when and when you're coming to get your I mean get funding for your idea that timing in the market is very important so what are some of the markers that someone is just you know starting out looking for funds that he or she should keep in mind to know but the timing in which they are participating in the round is that I mean opportunity right but then they're late early if you just go in that in any way okay this is in terms of choosing a particular center to work in based on funding data is that what you're saying that should be pretty easy to aggregate right you should be able to go to public forums and be able to aggregate that data for the road whether the funding is going or going down you should have a lot of papers up by and all these companies getting put out you'll get a good sense of idea if funding is on rise or if the market is not doing well whether investors are interested or not this is all public data that's freely available but if you want to know if the timing is right your guess is as good as mine in terms of going out and getting a certain problem and both for the founders entrepreneurs and also for investment in terms of investing being a little bit late is slightly better than being too early so that you see time again especially because we come in at a very early stage of the investment cycle so many you know so many entrepreneurs just lose steam and when they could have you know they could have stuck out another three years the timing would have been better so just keep that in mind if it feels so I'll this is an anecdote I'll give an example of Dave myself doing that in 2013 I stopped you know I came out of the prior high frequency training work and I was looking at the crypto space and I had played around a little bit with the bitcoin ecosystem I looked around and I said well there is coinbase they have launch already there's this point base there's big pay you know and there was one cross-border currency remittance platform that had come up which doesn't exist anymore but I looked around and I said everything has been solved I don't know what I'm what I can do with the crypto space anymore this was 2013 right so so timing is is all about having that conviction and if you're a little bit late don't don't fret you probably better place that place Hi I'm Prasad it's just a general question why is the startup funding is extremely low now 23 is 5 years low in 2020 as compared to what it used to be what is the scenario like you know is this we are not getting enough good niche startups or is there any issues like what are you what are the parameters the kind of processing your requirement the kind of thing that what has what has changed I think it's a very macro thing it's not specific to it's across the general question yeah we see funding has like it had reduced a lot I think it's on the upswing again that is because of macro factors and interest rates go higher risk capital becomes like very like you know of us you would rather just deploy it in like US countries and get 5% without like you know getting like a risky proposition and we have yet seen this when the interest rates were close to zero funding was like very much free flowing I still think there is a lot of cash lying on with these LPs which wants to be deployed it is sitting on the sidelines but they're still waiting for you know valuations to come to better levels or like a general interest rates as soon as interest rate gets cut you will see like another surge in easy funding that's great in fact it kind of ties back into that exit question and to your point but at least right now everyone is asking about exits because of the liquidity trends that has been in space is broadly speaking and also I think there is a little bit of a reflection self-protection around the venture space itself again not specific to web 3 but venture space now what is the time horizon is it worth taking that liquidity risk and this has come from allocators I think we also stepping back in terms of the entrepreneurs or managers who deploy the capital I think there was a little bit of of an existence in a couple years ago which is set it down right so if you actually look at free 2019 2020 data we are actually not way to go we're actually just about being able to right now maybe in the interest of time one yeah one last question and then you all can outside we'll take one last question sure okay two last questions and then actually we have a fly so sure I'll make it short but we'll take two we'll take two questions I'll make it short here myself I'm sigh this is more on the question on the metaverse friend with the investment perspective especially like I want to understand like the VC mindset when investing in metaverse metaverse company very much do you prefer investing in a token company like a company which has token giving token involved or with no token what are the factors that you look at and should the founder even think of creating an exit strategy or he should be focused on the product itself okay unpopular opinion or even opinion we've actually all got it really burned with the whole metaverse narrative and I'm not sure how fundable it is at the moment at least in the VC circles we don't talk about metaverse at least in the web 3 VC circle metaverse is no longer web 3 we have what do you call it got ridden of it it's no longer in web 3 so it's more on the digital entertainment side maybe a journey is a good investment that direction we personally I'm really not looking in the metaverse side so if you have a token great but whether we still see that kind of exit potential or whether we still see that kind of VC money flow inside it I'm not sure about just one part to add to what he said I think it would be a better idea to focus on the product and even more on that on the customers you know if you're ready to get you're looking to get funding might as well get a strong base of customers who really barge for your product and if you're able to do that then a bunch of VCs would be looking for you at this point like focus on the product first once you get traction VC money is going to come in in these tokens there is exit liquidity put for what like if the token doesn't have any value or like nobody's using the metaverse I don't think that will add much value I don't agree with the fact that metaverse is like probably dead I think still they're out here it's a long-term play with vision pro and like you know such kind of ARER hardware changes coming into play they will take one or the other four years or mainstreaming but like definitely think that there is going to be a longer term metaverse playing in the future maybe one final question let's go into the back please if you don't mind hold on hi this is Aditya Kumar my question is for getting funds so why did we get into approach business for getting funds and matters as to existing platforms for getting investment charges in big part though we don't know it's the last minute the best way is to reach out to us and of course if you have warm connectors that's respected but it doesn't change the odds yeah and I would just echo that a warm connect always has you know cold reach out sometimes you are going to slip through the cracks but a warm connect all the time hello this is Ajay Kumar my dad he comes out in a lot of just about the law and regulation of crypto law and regulations so how good that the trade goes on in India so I'm talking to the law and conference of crypto investment and regulations so I think basically India's taking a very slow and steady approach in terms of rotation and it also wants to do things from a global framework perspective so in India was the G20 presidency we pushed for like a global set of you know frameworks to be put in place for crypto because not one country can regulate such a global asset class and I think we will see some more directions in the right step post the elections post like you know clarity will probably emerge in the next budgetary session which happens as from an India perspective globally we have like mica as the north star which has like going to come an EU wide regulation across the European Union US also I think probably elections only after the elections we can expect you know some more proper laws and frameworks to be put in place how safe is the influence that's my how safe is the investment if you invest from India it is extremely risky it is the most risky asset there is if you are looking for safer assets there are like regulated assets and you can place your money there but similarly when you place somebody in small cap stocks I think just for you know risk adjusted returns you put place somebody into further thank you and I would just summarize that by saying that you know when you take a step back sometimes people get excited or the other way around in a minute one regulation comes out but the reality of the matter is regulations can never front-run innovation that is by its very definition regulations always have to play a lagging role whether it was Flipkart when they started e-commerce you know Zomato, Olao Kuber etc etc regulations always by its very definition have to come after the fact and that exactly what's happening in the crypto space as well the second point is when you actually take a step back and you think about it from a long-term perspective globally crypto regulation the secular trend is trending upward we're getting increasingly more regulatory clarity it is taking a little bit of time but the secular trend is trending upward so that's pretty optimal still last question wonderful discussion and generally got an overview of what VCs are looking for so we have already built a blockchain based payment app and we have a consumer who's ready to pay using cryptocurrency in US and we have a merchant who want to accept payment in crypto currencies the problem we are facing currently right now is in to find a payment processor like the result being or simple and the moment we talk about the problem and the business they are just like we don't touch crypto so like do you make do you think like what would be the way out here sorry I also do a real quick plug talk to our portfolio company got paid to you other there are basically your problem is on-ramp and off-ramp allow how to get INA into crypto so they are like if I you register like a blank platform set in I'm sure some of them are pretty easily available you can just go search on-ramp off-ramp you'll get any on-ramp is one company there's on-ramp there is transit all of these are the final registrations we are we have already partnered with transit but the problem we are facing we need a payment processor and if there are a lot of like specific crypto payment companies which allow exactly the act as given processes the act as a result being for accepting crypto payments okay it would be a great help because I think so again really find all the pandas for the sharing we are kind of easy to share and I hope it was


Srečen sem, da je tudi praktykaličen, da poživamo praktykaliče. To je izgleda, da smo tudi praktykaliče poživamo praktykaliče. To je izgleda, da je izgleda, da poživamo praktykaliče. To je, da smo tudi praktykaliče, da smo tudi praktykaliče. Nr. inizaj, da smo tudi praktykaliče, da smo tudi praktykaliče. z vsej vsej situacije. Vsej vsej studi in v povali je, kaj sem vsej vsej, in sem vsej, da ne je nekaj vsej. Nekaj vsej vsej vsej vsej. Zato vsej polutanci nekaj vsej z vsej emisijanj. So we choose a radius of four kilometers in another situation. A major radius has to be chosen. This is an example of buffer, but another example is consider who is affected by this other environmental stress, very important, that is a motorway, ki je vsega vsega barfa. In in approach in approach in approach in approach could also be this one. To define a distance between between the population and the street and consider all people that are inside this buffer this linear buffer in this case as exposed to the street. So in this case the measurement is very different because we have a pollution that a pollutant that is emitted at the ground level so the dispersion is very little. And we often we usually talk about 100, 200, 300 meters, 500 meters in case of very heavy traffic in the streets. Of course, if we have information about residents and also workplace it's a good situation to consider this information together, we have an example of another incident in my region is in Parma city in which there is the the shape of the pollutant emitted by a dispersion model the population considering in our study on asthmatic adults so a very selected population and in this case we also consider by we also use a questionnaire to retrieve information about workplace and so you can see here this line is the distance between the residents and the workplace and to have the possibility to consider the two exposure is better that is obviously better. We have waited the time spent at home and the time spent in the workplace and we have measured the exposure to the incinerators in I far remember well 16 hours a day in the residents and the tower in the workplace and we found differences in exposure assessment respect to consider only address. I move quickly to the end of my presentation because this information are related also to the practicalities. An example of the importance of the introduction of GIS in exposure assessment studies in environmental epidemiology. We made a review of these methods related to studies of incinerators that is an example. We made this activity because we had an important project on incinerators and we want to understand how to calculate exposure. And in this review we consider three aspects of exposure intensity.  The spatial distribution, the scale and the spatial distribution of this pollutant and also the temporal variability that are the three aspects that together provide the best approach to exposure assessment. And we reviewed studies on incinerators starting from 1984 to 2013 and you can see here if considering the three aspects that I said before and going from the worst to the best you can see that with time there is significant improvement in the quality of the exposure assessment approach. And this improvement is mainly due to the use of GIS approach. So we can move to the practicalities. This last slide is about all GIS software that I know, commercial and free. Ok, thank you. So I will present now some practical example of how we have used GIS for exposure assessment in epidemiological studies and in anti-impact assessment. With the three practical examples one of these will be finished tomorrow with the calculation of the whole chain so the calculation of the health impact assessment due to this exposure. The first one is related to the study I said before. We made in our region a big study of all incinerators in the middle of the region. We have an incinerator for each province and also a total of nine incinerators and we made a study on also the environmental aspect but mainly the health effects of exposure to air pollution due to incinerators and health outcomes. And we published this work on epidemiology in 2013 with the main result of our studies that's related to reproductive outcomes and that we will show related to increasing exposure to incinerators. And in this slide I show the way we use to assess exposure. These are Emilia Romagna region that is in this part north of Italy and these are in red. The underlying shape file is related to the land user, the Korean Land Cover that is an European database that provides information about the use of land and the use of the territory and in red are reported the urban areas, this is Bologna, Modena, Reggio Media, Parma and so on. At the time of the study there was no incinerators in Parma but now we have a new incinerator and the example I showed you before was about Parma. We define a buffer of four kilometers around each incinerator and you can see that it's very close or overlapping the urban areas in different situations. So an overlapping also of different exposure because in urban areas you are exposed to traffic, to heating and very important environmental stress. So we have to consider the two aspects that are here, the dispersion model of incinerator and the dispersion model of all other sources in which you can see that the traffic lines are the main exposure factor. So we consider the buffer of four kilometers, we geocoded all addresses that fall into this buffer and we then construct a database of geocoded addresses with information of the name of the street and the X and Y coordinates and a database of population data for each address. We retrieve information about how many people and who live in each address and we reconstruct also retrospectively a database of a very desinential history. We consider the movement of population in time. On the other hand we have from a dispersion model we use the ADMS as I will show in the next slide and we construct a model for incinerators considering PM10 as the tracer of incinerator and all other sources that were traffic, heating, agricultural activities and industry. And we use Hanox as the main tracer of this kind of pollution. Inovoz, you cannot hear that for all other sources we are talking about microgram per cubic meter and here we are talking about nanograms per cubic meter. So a very high difference in three order of differences and more between the two kind of exposures. So this is the study design of the environmental study. We start from information about industry traffic, heating incinerators and also agriculture. And we made an emission map by means of ADMS. We have the dispersion model and the distribution of this dispersion model at the ground level. And to do this we use ADMS as I said before. ADMS is a very user-friendly window that allows a very easy use of the software. You can see that we can choose from between industrial sources, road sources and grid sources. The last one is related to information that is referred to a square. It is considered homogenous on a square of 500 meters or so on. We select industrial sources for incinerator. We provide information about the characteristics of incinerator. The emission factor that is provided by the owner and the control by our agency on emission at the stack level. And this is the output of ADMS. It is a text file with the concentration of different pollutants on a grid. This grid is defined by the first two columns with the coordinates. And so it is very easy to put this one in GIS file. This is the result. You can see that there is a regular grid, a regular base grid and the software had other points where the difference between values from a point to another is very high. It is called intelligent grid because there is more information where there is more heterogeneity in the concentration. So here you can see the roads. This is the motorway that I showed you before in the example. And regarding the exposure of population, what can we do with this information? We put in these triangles the address of each person and then we have to move to exposure assessment to this, related to this map that is in this case the map of all other sources. How can we do that? If we see to this address, for example, we have to choose from different methods. One of these is the nearest monitor. Otherwise we can choose to construct a map by interpolation. And this was our choice to have a more homogeneous distribution of information and arc map in this case, but every GIS software can provide a tool to do this. In arc map is geostatistical analysis that allows us to make calculations about inverse distance weight, creaking and so on. We choose creaking in our exercise, but with this very rich information, very rich variability of data, the result is very similar between creaking and inverse distance weight. And this is the map that is provided by the creaking application and in this way is very easy now to assess exposure to each address simply making the point in polygon analysis that I showed you before. And to consider what is the number that is under each triangle and assess exposure in this way. We can also add other information. In this case, this is the information about census block. Census block provides us information about socioeconomic status and so with a point of polygon analysis, again, we can provide information about socioeconomic status to all our court with the assumption that all people living in the same census block has the same socioeconomic status. That is an approximation, of course, but it is the most defined information about the economic status that we have. So this is an example of what I showed you before in the theory part about the overview analysis. Another example that is again on waste about landfills in Europe. This is an example that I put in the presentation for two reasons. One is an example of how to use very large information, already available over all Europe to calculate an impact due to environmental stress that can be compared between member states, between countries. And the other reason is that this example is complete for our purpose because there is also the part of calculation of attributable cases that we will make tomorrow after the lesson about the concentration response function and the integrated approach to adding impact assessment. So we will be able tomorrow to complete the exercise hopefully with an XR5 together. So for now we concentrate to the first part that the GIS approach to exposure assessment. What are the information we use? We want to calculate how many people were exposed to landfills in Europe and considering the exposure with the simpler approach we can use at this distance because we consider a lot of landfills, 1000 or perhaps 100 or perhaps 1000 of landfills. And so we don't have the capability information about the dispersion model of all these plants. And so we consider distance as a property of exposure. We need the location of plants. The location of plants was provided by the European Pollutant Release and Transfer Registry, that is an initiative of European Environmental Agency, a very good database that allows us to geocode, geolocalize all landfills in Europe. And the other aspect was the population. And the population were provided, again by the European Environmental Agency, by a population database that is a very big raster file with information on density population across Europe, across a large part of Europe. You can see that not all states are reported here, but it's a good number of states. And I mentioned that we will return tomorrow also the head for all database that Massimo introduced in his lecture this morning. We used this database to consider the background incidents of mortality and morbidity of population divided by country. So EPRTR register is a very, very powerful register that is regulated by European law. And he reported from 2007 to 2014 all the information by EU member states and then Iceland, Litterstein, Norway, Serbia and Switzerland. And as you can see in the slide, there are a huge number of information and polluted registry from industry reported, more than 30,000 facilities in 32 countries. This is the representation in Google Earth, the format of the file provided by the European Agency is the CAP KMS file that can be visualized in Google Earth. And this is a representation of the sector 5, 5.D. The sector 5 is a waste management premises, the subsection and the sector 5.D is landfills. And in this slide you see all landfills that are geocoded in Europe. This is the table of the landfills we have considered. There is this part that don't allow us to have the total, but I think it's more than 1,500, I think. And on the other hand, we have information of population by this, other, very useful, I don't know if it's a registry, it's information, all again provided by European Environmental Agency that is a big raster file with a resolution of 100 meters in its square there is information about density population, population density. And this is the graphical representation of this raster file. And in this way we can put the population, overlap the population to the location of the landfills. This is a KMS zeta file. I show you some example in ArcMap, but the name of the function is the same in almost all software. So in ArcMap there is a tool to convert KMS zeta file to layer, that is the shape file used in ArcMap, but also in KUGIS and other software. So we import this information in ArcMap and this is the result with the mapping of all these landfills. For each landfills there is a zoom on the north Italy. You can see here the Garda Lake and here the boundary of Italy. You can see here we construct for each point with the instruments of buffer, different buffers and this is another zoom. In this slide you see the buffer and the information about the population. These are the single 100 meters square with information on population density. So starting from these two information, the location, the buffer and this raster, we were able to calculate the population exposed to each of the considered landfills. Another example that I show you is a free package that is GMA that stands for Geospatial Modeling Environment. This is a free package that you can download from the site. It's the only problem of this free software that is that work only if ArcMap is installed on your computer. So it's a very powerful tool because simplify a lot of functions in ArcMap that are very difficult to calculate but require the engine of this software. In the website there is written that they are developing this software for other but it's a year that I don't check but a year ago there was no improvement in the sense. But it's a very good tool to make an intersection and overlapping in a very easy way. This is a window that we use to calculate this population. All this calculation could be made only with ArcMap or QG. But it's more difficult, this is a very easy way. And I show also some other suggestions about the calculation of population in industry, in insulator and so on. And indicating the name of the tool you have to use in the different steps. QG is ArcMap and I don't know also if grass and other. Name proximity analysis tool, the way to use to calculate buffers. And this is the window in ArcMap in which you can easily import the point sources from which calculate buffers. The unit 100 meters or so on to calculate to define buffer. In this windows I don't remember if no, there is another window. In multiple buffers you can calculate simultaneously different buffers. And in this case, this example is a three kilometer buffer. And to calculate exposit population, we can have information about the square like in the environmental agency database, raster file, or if you are in your country or in a single situation, you can also have information about sensors block data. In Italy when we made this calculation only for Italy, we often usually use this information about sensors block. In each sensors block we have the total number of population that live inside. And with the approximation that this population is uniformly distributed into the buffer, we can calculate how many people live in the green part around this plant. To be more precise, we have to choose the criteria to consider the sensors blocks that overlap the boundary of the buffer. And how to make the estimation of people living in this type of sensors block, a way is to calculate exactly the number of population in the assumption of the uniform distribution into the sensors block. And this can be made by two steps, the intersect function of our map or could just intersect between buffer and sensors block. The calculation of the area that is a function that is built in the GIS file to calculate, for example, this area starting from information of the whole area and to apply a simple formula to calculate which population, how many people live in this single part. This is the function intersect, OK. And this exercise tomorrow we will complete tomorrow with the 18-pack assessment calculation, considering also the outcomes, at least a couple of outcomes that literature suggests in this situation. The last slide, the last two slides are related to the... I think, no, there is more than one, OK. The situation about the construction of land use relation modelling in case extensively talk this morning about this powerful tool to assess exposure to environmental stressor, in particular in urban areas. And I took this part of the slide from case that is the list of information of predictor variables that has to be built for the implement of the relation model for the land use relation model. All these information are built by GIS approaches. And in this graph you can see the way in which are considered the instrument, the four or five commands that I show you during this lecture are sufficient to calculate the number of roads within a buffer, the number of roads or the number of major roads, the area of the use of the territory in a buffer. So information about, I can see here, land use, the first one, you can calculate this area in the same way I showed you before, and decide into this buffer what is the main use of the territory in the buffer. Or you can consider the number of industry that falls into a buffer. You can multiply to a value of emission, if you have. All these information are calculated with the simple instrument that I show you in this presentation. And all these variables are calculated in this way. This approach is used also in other situations. This is an example we made to compare GIS approach in recidential exposure compared to self-reported exposure by questioner. And there were interesting situations about the recall bias, the demonstration of the existing recall bias or differences between people living very close and people living far from industries and so on. And to close this presentation, when we have all these aspects, we can apply all these approaches also when we have uniformly distributed pollution, such as when we have to calculate the environmental burden of disease or rating of assessment of PM 2.5 overall state or overall the world as some example in the lecture before as shown. Also in this case, we have a map in a raster file on other sources and the underlying population that allow us to make all these calculations in the same way I showed you before. This is an example from the VAS project that is a rating of assessment calculation of pollution in Italy that Carla Francesco and colleagues have made some years ago, in which there is an example of a grid in a 4 km grid of pollution overlapping information about population by census block. And this is perhaps the worst situation in which a census block overlapped four different squares, but it is possible with the approaches that we said before. To calculate how many people are exposed to these values, how many to this, how many to this, how many to this. So in the iterative process, all these calculations are possible to define the more suitable way to assess exposure also to pollution overall. Thank you. Thank you very much. And thank you for updating the presentation so fast for the tumorization. And is there any question? OK. Oh, OK. Thank you so much for your nice presentation. So what I'm thinking about that dispersion of pollutants is always affected by land use land cover as well as topography. And especially in urban areas we have high rise buildings. So how this model is taking care of the morphology of the settlement as well as land use land cover present in the area? How this model is taking into account the topography and... Yeah, land use land cover, topography, as well as morphology of the urban setup. How kind of model? Which kind of model? This dispersion, pollution and dispersion. OK. There is no more. There is... You can have information on... No, no, it's OK. A layer in a GIS file about topography that is very important in some situation. In the... I don't know if ESCAPE project is mentioned and is being mentioned during these days. OK. In ESCAPE project land use relation model was made for different cities in Europe and in situations like Rome, for example, in which the topography is relevant. This was a variable that was determined in the characterization of pollution. Not in my city, for sure, because I live in Povil in this situation, it's not this one. So, both dispersion model and land use relation model can take into account properly this information. I don't know if this was your question. No, about that use of... The importance of those variables in dispersion model, in your case. Yeah, yeah, OK. Thank you so much. Yeah. OK. Thank you very much. Sorry for the presentation. If the local agency does not have, maybe for example, the vector or the raster data format of the area you are interested in studying, what is the source of data for the games? Without information about local environmental agency? Yes. Yeah. Perhaps... I have shown a slide in which there is information available. For dispersion model, it is crucial to have good information about emissions. And emissions can be provided by local agency, but also by the owner. There are those that... Emission data, yes. The local refinery can produce. But for example, the land use, land cover or the terrain. Those, yes. If I put the exact name, but... Yeah. The existing maps are related to... When we talk about holography, topography, there are European data set that can provide this information. And I know information, particularly at the European level, but I think that it's extensible to other situation. In Europe, there is a project that is covering and covering, that every ten years or perhaps also every five years with some improvement, provide information about land use in a square, but a very fine resolution. And also there are information about a main criticality about the availability information related to traffic and to roads, but in particular to traffic, because the way to calculate traffic difference from city to city, from region to region, from state to state. But if we refer only to the network of roads, we have the Aero Street Fire, for example, that is the map of the old roads that are in Europe with the classification of roads, that classification of roads is roughly an indicator of traffic. And so there is a very high availability of information of this in this way. But only Europe also elsewhere. This is a good question. Yes, I don't know in the other situation. I don't know if, I'm having a look now, but I don't know if there is the specific information you might want, but Google Earth Engine is available for, it has global data and it's free to use. And it might be useful when we're missing data, there's no data provided by the government or by other studies. Yes, and also other initiatives that free open street map, but I don't use open street map because I have information about in Italy and Europe available information, but it's a free website with information all over the world about street, I don't know the availability and the level of uncertainty related to this information, but it's a website that is called Open Street Map. And I think that there are also other... There is a website called geeta.org. They give a lot of data, raster as well as vector globally, so they can download for their country, about the topography, about the land use land cover, about population, a lot of data is available at geeta.org. Or diva.org is another website, where you can download a lot of GIS software as well as data. And government of India is also providing data through Bhuvan portal, so you can have a lot of data from Bhuvan portal. Excuse me, just I have a comment for Mr. Biblap, when you're working on air dispersion model, you need two kind of file, terrain elevation data and land use data. And you can go to the website of USGS, United States of Geography, and enter the longitude and latitude of your area and they will give you this kind of file for all the world. USGS? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Thank you. I also wanted to add a comment to what friends told. I think that OpenStreetMap is very good in such cases for our countries, because people, volunteer people produce data, shape files, and they upload it. And also, and they are mostly very useful, you can have many versions of the data and you can select which one is more exact and use it. And also USGS also have mostly in images, raster image, you can use USGS. And also if you search in the internet, some people who provided the data mostly upload it for free or for some small yes, and you can use it. It is a very good point in these days. So I think we do not have any shortage of data. Maybe for your specific, what is specific for your field of study, you have to digit some data, but for other popular data of land is land cover or a street or river, it's free and you can use it. Excuse me. For health impact assessment, we need emission data, yes. But if we don't have these emission data, we have only concentration. In our country, the emission data is not available for everyone, but the concentration, some places it's available. So how I can convert from concentration to emission to make these health impact assessment. Another question, can I use the data of climate change scenario to make health impact assessment for the future? Thank you. Regarding the emission concentration, the health impact assessment requires information about concentrations. So if you have concentrations, you can make an exercise of health impact assessment, because evidence from literature are related to exposure to concentration of pollutants. I have talked about emissions data in the case of application of a dispersion model of a point source. In this case, it's crucial to have emission data, but if you have a good network or good information about concentration, it's okay. And regarding, and I don't remember the last... It's a separated station. Maybe, for example, in my authority, we have available five stations, but it's one in the desert outside the boundary of Egypt, one on Cairo, one in different places. Not many stations. Yes, it's the same argument of tomorrow morning about the number of the location with the information. It depends on which model you have to apply in case of end-use creation model. As case said, less than 20 points is not useful. And also you have to consider the distribution in the area. And if you are interested in health impact assessment of short-term aspects, so the variation in time, you can use information from a sparse monitoring data, but you consider only the variation in time in days, so you have the capability of predict health outcomes related to short-term effects. I just want to comment what she was saying, what if we don't have data information about the emissions, but just the concentration, because now we know that one of the main points in health impact assessment is to provide scenarios and so evaluate the health effects when something is changing. What if we cannot say anything about the emission because we don't have the data? You can work on the concentrations. For example, in the example in the Andrea show, the Italian air pollution health impact assessment study, we sometimes the scenarios are asked from the politicians, the decision makers, sometimes they don't know, and so we decided to create our own scenarios, working on the concentration, I mean, just saying, what if we can reduce of 20% the concentration, what will be the effect on the health? What if we cut the concentration and keep just the limit by law? Is something that you can do cell by cell, simply the calculation, you can just reduce the concentration and evaluate the relative impact, so you can still do some things and assumptions, it's a scenario, theoretical scenarios, but still you can do some, so even if you don't know the exact amount of emissions, which is usually the case also in Italy, I mean, there is no common to have such information. And this is very useful policy makers, very often you say we go to the WHO's level, we can earn, save, et cetera. I would like to add that since this morning we have heard a lot, it probably is important to underline that the lure model can be used, even if you don't have any monitoring station, or you have some campaign, you assess, tomorrow I think you will go back to that, but you can assess air pollution, and then from that you can extrapolate and have some basic data. Obviously there are advantages and disadvantages, but in a situation where really you don't have anything, this is a good start, this was adopted in escape, where in the towns where they didn't have anything and as a given a nice result you publish a lot on that. For example, now in Rome we, I mean, not as citizens groups, organized groups, they decided to monitor the air pollution because of traffic, so they buy this monitor, it's quite cheap for, I don't know how many euros, but quite cheap, so they put the monitors for one month, and so now we have 250 points in Rome, just with one campaign, of course it would be better to have one in one season, and one in the opposite season, to take into account the variability, the seasonality, the variation in seasons, but still you can do something, and we are now conducting, build this lure to estimate concentration in other points of the city, taking into account all the other variables that we have, traffic flows, population density, distance from main road, the more the better, I think. That's really useful, in France we have cars, and now doing that, and the individuals, so cars go everywhere, you have a border, that's in Paris the mayor, I need to go that supported this action to better monitor pollution, because we have only 22 monitor stations, only three assess PM 2.5, zero, the ultra-five, so boo, yes, and where it's really very much polluted, they have taken out the monitor station to reduce the cost, because, you know, this is another criteria. Also to estimate the production or the emission, you can use an inverse model, if you have a dispersion model, you can write a procedure, in the direct model you specify the emission, and then you calculate the concentration, and the inverse model is doing, sorry, you take the concentration and you derive the emissions, but it's the arms work to do, it's not trivial to do that. OK, any other question? So may I suggest that for the person who shared some information about ways to make a low-cost GIS, I don't know if I got it right, but maybe you could share this information on the questioner, so that everybody knows where to find that, and for tomorrow we've decided that we should move, start a little later, 8.45, instead of 8.30, so that we are able to have breakfast and to take the shuttle. 8.45. 8.45, yes, and tomorrow is holiday day, it's a national day of Italy, so the shuttle bus, if you have to take the bus, it's like a Sunday for how you call it, the time schedule. OK, are we done? Yes, I guess. So now there is the follow-up of the exploration of the posters. OK, there are the two operators that should start. Kala, are you leading a two operator for the poster? OK, so we meet at the poster, the one, I think we started some of it. I think yesterday works in a nice way, what do you think? I mean, I would like to listen from other students, so we can continue our tour or exchange, I don't know. OK, so it will be me, Francesco, Andrea, Isabella, Jean-François. OK, Jean-François. Yes, bye.