Hey what's up guys welcome to Trending Reviews. So this is the desk lab it's a 4k ultra light portable touchscreen monitor it's a 15.6 inch IPS monitor that you can connect to a whole host of devices your laptop your phone tablets your gaming consoles whatever it may be whole bunch of use cases I'm going to cover a whole bunch of scenarios with this so take a look at the categories on the sidebar here this video might be a little bit long so if you wanted to skip to any particular category you can do that with the chapters down below or along the timeline down here so let's go ahead open this up and showcase what this thing can do so there's a few items that come with this in the box you get the desk lab monitor you get a HDMI to HDMI cable a USB-C to USB-C cable and a user manual now let's move on to the ports on the left hand side you have a headphone jack there that you can use for your headphones or for external speakers you also have two USB-C ports both which can be displayed as the power source to the monitor and to reverse charge other devices and then you also have a full-sized HDMI port as well on the right hand side you have three buttons the middle one is the power button the top and the lower ones are the plus and minus buttons for the volume and also to scroll through the menu then you also have a USB-A traditional port as well to charge devices now this monitor is so lightweight it's only 725 grams and it's ultra thin it's just under 6 millimeters i don't know if you guys can see that look how thin that is in comparison i have this pen it's roughly around the same height of this pen if i take a look here i think this pen is slightly taller that's how thin this is so it's very easy to take with you you can just chuck it in your backpack and it comes with this very nice case here this case does cost an additional $50 to the price of the desk lab monitor which is $399 now the purchase links are from the desk lab website which i've got linked in the description below but you can actually see it just snaps on very easily through magnetics now the magnetic case allows you to use this in various different viewing angles all you have to do is flip it around tilt it so you angle it like that and then you can use this in pretty much any type of angle you want so as you can see the flap backwards are moving it downwards to pretty much any angle that make it easier to read or see the screen so it's pretty much unlimited possibilities and you can also have it flat on the desk as well so it's very convenient plenty of options now let's take a look at some use cases for this right so i'm connecting this with my macbook pro and i'm using the usb-c to usb-c cable to both display and power the monitor itself now there's a few options that you can use by default i'm using this to extend my screen so you can use two independent screens to do your day-to-day work but you can also mirror the screen as well so in case you want to do presentations and you want to show other people of whatever you have on the screen then you can use that and turn it around and show different people then if you're someone like a coder and you'd rather have a very vertical screen then you can flip it 90 degrees sideways and then use that to display maybe some code or whatever it may be to help you utilize more screen real estate other use cases for this monitor you can connect it to your ipad like i've done here and the response rate is pretty much identical i'm cycling through the screens and the different apps and it mirrors it perfectly so that's another use case you can have and if you have a smartphone that's compatible to display the screen on a different monitor then you can connect your smartphone and extend that and work off of this massive screen you can mirror your smartphone or extend that as well and you can also use this for gaming so if you wanted to connect your playstation your xbox your nintendo switch you have the hdmi port there connect your game console and this will be perfect for gaming turn it on to game mode and you'll get the perfect colors resolution the refresh rates it'll be awesome for that now this is a crystal clear liquid display and you can set the color temperature from 9300k which is the coolest down to any custom user preset it does have 400 nits of brightness so if you was to use this outdoors for any reason then you'd still be able to see the screen quite clearly it does have 1200 to 1 contrast ratio and 16.7 million colors so it's perfect for graphic designers if you are using things like adobe illustrator or adobe photoshop then you'll really get the true colors coming out onto the screen to match whatever graphic designs you are making it's also a flicker free anti-glare and low blue light screen to prevent eye strain or even migraines from looking at the screen all day and you can actually change the aspect ratio of the monitor itself from 16 by 9 to 4 boy 3 to 5 by 4 and also a square ratio of 1 by 1 now when you're looking at different colors or images and you are maybe like a graphic designer or a website designer then this does actually display very nice colors i know the screen that you're looking at might not show real justice for it but believe me it's very clear it's just like natively you're using it on your actual laptop so i have a retina display macbook pro and it pretty much matches like for like on both screens in terms of the color density that's coming out and not just the brightness of the colors but even the darker color so it actually shows you the deepest blacks and very dark colors in your designs or whatever it may be it's absolutely exactly how you expect it to be now you can also change the different settings in the menu to make the screen brighter or show different types of modes of the actual screen resolution and to make the image more vivid so let me go ahead and show you a little bit more about the settings okay guys so let's run through the settings which appears on the bottom right hand corner of the screen so the first one is picture settings if in here you can basically change the brightness the contrast the eco dcr sharpness so if i go to the eco settings there you can change this to different types of modes so if i cycle through maybe game movie photo and vivid so whichever one you want to do then you can do that but there's also an option for user preset as well and if you turn dcr on which is dynamic contrast ratio then this will give you the ability to make dark scenes even darker by adjusting the intensity of the backlight on the monitor so i'm going to leave that on for now then you can put the sharpness up as well to maximum four now this is the color settings you can change the color temperature from here so for example 9300 kelvins up to a user custom preset you can also change the level of hue saturation low blue light and free sync as well if you turn free sync on this would allow you to synchronize the refresh rate of your graphics card onto the desk lab monitor you then have audio settings other settings which include the language hdr modes and to reset the monitor and finally you can change the input source from here and finally this is a touchscreen monitor but you need to have a touchscreen capable device to extend this onto the desk lab monitor so i use a macbook pro and because macbooks are not touchscreen i can't use the touchscreen capabilities on this but if you have a windows laptop or even if you have an apple ipad pro then you will be able to extend that touchscreen capability on this but even if you do it's 20 milliseconds of response time which is perfect it's super fast and it's not just a single finger touchscreen it's a multi-finger touchscreen as well and it has up to 10 points of touch that can allow you to do different things most of the time you're only going to use a single finger or double fingers to maybe zoom in and out just like you do with your phone it's perfect for that final thing i wanted to show if you're going to use this for let's say watching movies so let's take a look at an example so in terms of that video quality it's crystal clear it's just like my retina display on my macbook pro it's pretty much identical to be honest and the colors were so vibrant even if i changed the colors to the different modes maybe vivid or movie mode they will stand out a lot more because i was watching that on standard so that's about it guys now this is a very good purchase $399 of course it's not the cheapest buy but for what you get it's super light it's super thin it's pretty much lighter and easier to carry with you than your actual laptop but it wouldn't take up any more additional space if you have a carry case for your laptop this can probably slot in just about in there with the laptop as well backpack very easy to put in there and all you need is this all you need is the usb-c cable connect that take that with you have your laptop and then you have a two monitor screen set up wherever you go very happy links are down below on where you can check this out if you'd like to purchase it if there's any discount codes you can also get that from the link down below as well otherwise if there's any questions by all means drop a comment otherwise i hope you subscribe i've got tons more cool gadget videos coming out just like this and i will catch you guys at the next one take care


Hello and welcome to 420gms on NewsClick. We are joined here in the studio with Arjun Pandit and joining us from Retro Grafe is Zennady Singh and from Australia is Siddhant Ani. We're going to round up the iLeague season today. Chennai City are champions, they've romped to the title, scored the most goals, played the most exciting football despite having almost gotten relegated last season. Let's take it from the top. Arjun. See, I'll tell you what, look, there are many positives for Chennai City FC and we'll of course talk about it. Renady has commented on all their games, so he will of course give us a better insight into that. But my only point is, the fact that in the last three seasons you had three first time champions and two teams who almost relegated the season before that, it tells you also about the quality of football on display. Let's not take anything away from the iLeague that the fact that this league has gone to the last day or the last round of fixtures, that tells you about the level playing field. But let that not take you away from the fact that the quality of football has just not been that great. But as far as Chennai City FC, Renady Bhai, 48 goals in this season. I mean, commentating will be fun to see all that attacking football. Yeah, yeah. But see, Chennai, for me, they deserve to win. From the first match, the game they have played, the matches they have played, the style of football, the philosophy, it's been the best. Isbengol did well, no doubt. But Isbengol did well in patches. But Isbengol, I'm sure wherever they are, they are second in the league. I think they deserve to be second in the league. But for me, Chennai, by far, the best team in the league and I'm happy that they won the league. Somewhere or the other, Siddhan, would you also agree that this Spanish philosophy, man? I mean, you know, we always brought in foreigners, African players. But over the last few years, we've seen Spanish players and the fulcrum being four or five Spanish players who have that philosophy of football. I think it suits the Indian players who are supporting them, keeping the ball on the ground and it suits our characteristics and our style. I think if you sort of exclude Minerva Punjab and their, the way it's sort of they played, which was a quite defensive, direct style of football that they were looking at. And they were the ones to be. But other than that, definitely I think the Spanish way of playing, you look at Isolacy and like the highly technically scaled and quick visual voice that's played in that tight ground. Very similar to what you've seen at some of these clubs that have been able to do well in the league. And I think the Chennai boys, even the guys like Suzai Raj, who was in the team last season, moved on to the ISL. There was a strong focus on how they played with the ball and what they did with the ball and how they developed the game. Whether they won all of us was sort of second P and Akbar Nawaz came out and said this at the beginning of the season that like, it's kind of all that, that is attractive that we played with the fans in the stadium. And I don't know whether like it's ideal for Indian boys to be playing the way they like in Spain or not. But in terms of an advertisement for the I-League and what an I-League champion club should be playing like, I think it's fantastic that we've seen like 48 goals in 20 games. 40 of those goals were by Spanish players. So only 8, I mean 40 of those goals were scored by Spanish players? Yeah, yeah. So I think Chennai cities, foreigners, for foreigners, along with that attacking three attacking players and Eslava, they have signed the best foreigner without any doubt. But the Indian players who are playing alongside them is also, they have also performed the best. It's not only the foreigners, yes, foreigners make a difference, but at the same time, if you see Gaurav Bora, the young guy, defender playing along with Eslava, he has performed at his best. Of course this is just a start, he will play much, much better. But Indian players in Chennai city players also, they are no less, they have given their best. And I think if they can keep, I don't know how long they can keep them. I'm sure there are a lot of ISL teams are waiting for those guys. But if they can keep for next year, I think Chennai city again, they will do well. And a lot of credit should go to the courts, of course, no doubt the foreigners. But then credit should go to the courts also, for the way of football they have played. That's perfect that Renédy is bringing up the point that I don't know how long they will last because there will be ISL teams looking in. So with this very swampy ground that the I-League and the next season is in, how sustainable is what Chennai city are doing? I mean they've also tied up with FC Basel. They've got this set up which they say is going to be a system that they're going to grow. Until we don't know what is the way forward, right? Till now whatever is going on in the air that this will be, that will be. Until you don't know what is the way forward, you can't really say how sustainable is Chennai city. I feel from the Chennai city victory, it's opened an avenue for us that whenever we're looking for foreign coaches, we go to South America. And the thing is the European and the South American coach is used to the kind of players he has over there. So when he comes here, he doesn't have the same characteristics in the players that he sees here. But now we've realized that there's a Singapore, South East Asian coaches, highly qualified South East Asian coaches who understand the characteristics of Indian players because our characteristics are closer to what the South East Asian players are.  And full credit to him, you know, it's not just 48 goals this season. In 2016, when he was a tampine rover or tampine rover, their team scored 52 goals. 52 goals. So it's not just a, you know, one. It's just philosophy and the boys buying into that. Yeah, I totally agree with Pandit because it is his philosophy. It's not only one match. It's not only two matches. It's the whole league except the last two matches before the final match. I think they fumbled, but before that, you know, by far they have been dominating the whole game, you know, every time they play. So this is not just by fluke. That's why I'm saying they deserve to win for the game they have played. It's so beautiful to watch. It's a little risky at the back, but the players did well. Can I ask one question to Sadanth who's been championing the cause of iLeague and rightly so. And I'm not saying anything against that. But the point being by the fact that you're having these first-time winners coming and winning the league in the last three seasons. Does that tell you a bit about the quality of football on display? Well, I mean, it's a complex answer, Pandit, because a lot of times what happens is that the top players from the iLeague because they're doing well at their level, they are clubs that come in and pick them up. I mean, I said clubs are picking up a lot of players from the iLeague, the best players. So for a club run on a tight budget, it's very hard to maintain like Red Reddy was saying earlier to keep the fulcrum or the core of a squad together when there's interest from bigger clubs which have far larger budgets. It's not really a realistic proposition. And also clubs are also looking to cash in on the sort of local talent that they nurture through the system. It's a very important part of the whole system which allows clubs to become sustainable in the longer term. If you have an academy and you're looking at local players from Tamil Nadu, for example, that you're bringing into the system and they're doing such a phenomenal job. I mean, if you look at Indian football team, historically the national team, there has been a strong component of players coming in now when we think of football in the south, we only think of Kerala. But Tamil Nadu has a very strong football culture. And it's great to see that that is getting revived because this club exists. And it also is similar to what is happening with iLeague clubs in other parts of the country, whether it's Kashmir or in Imphal where Renhida is right now with Hoka and other clubs. It feeds into a larger football ecosystem, I think. And that's what makes iLeague so critical to how Indian football's future is going to be. I mean, Pandit, just taking on from the point you made about Southeast Asian coaches, I want to bring Renhida in here because I also think that this presents a reverse opportunity for Indian coaches to potentially explore the chance to take their skills and talent and go to Southeast Asia and take a chance there with clubs in Singapore or other countries in Southeast Asia. That's why I think for Renhida, at least he has to prove in a domestic first. That's why I took Sagolban United coming out from the comfort zone in ISL being an assistant coach. You are getting money on time and you don't have to worry much. Worrying would be on the head coach. But I have realized that two years after working, I will go down and work with Sagolban United and teams from Northeast so that if I do make a mistake, I make a mistake with my own philosophy and that's all that I learned. So like Pandit said, it's really nice to see Asian coaches doing well. Singapore is very close to India. And when Singapore coaches can do well, we see even in Indian coaches, Mahesh and Pinto doing well. And our under-16 is doing well, Viviano. So let's see what today, tonight we have a match. Let's see what our under-23 can do. So as long as we are Asian, we should have faith in ourselves. And there are a lot of young coaches who are working hard to be in that best position. But it will take some time. But for sure, we are in the right spot. So I'm going to interrupt this normal broadcast to bring in a 420 grams exclusive. Ranidhi Singh, do you have something to tell us and exclusive as to where you are coaching next? Brother, today or tomorrow, tonight or tomorrow, let's see. That's a great exclusive. Thank you. Honestly, I got an offer from Neroka. So we still have to sign a contract once the contract signs and I'll be ready. So this is where I'm telling you. So let's see. It will be a big challenge for me to be a coach in Super Cup. That's going to be a big challenge. And it's tournament. Anything can happen. I'm going to play the best teams, the best organized team. All the ISL teams are really, really organized tactically. I have to come up in a very less time. I have to come up. Neroka this year, even though they are playing good football, they haven't got the result. So in 10 days, I have to see what I can do. This news you've given us of you coaching Neroka. I honestly feel whether you win or lose, I'm not even looking at that. Just the fact that Ranidhi Singh and the legend that is Ranidhi Singh is now coaching in top flight of Indian football. I think that should be celebrated. And we hope that continues with the likes of Ishwak Ahmed, with the Mehrajuddin, with Mahesh Gowli. Because that in turn, because you guys know the system inside out. You guys know how players feel inside out. So a player will buy into your philosophy much easier than koi go ra aar hai bahar se kain hai ki aise karo, waise karo. Brother, I feel that we need to prove and this is my best platform. Like you said, win or lose, that's a different thing. But I am 100% sure. But our guys, once they join in, my boys will give 100% that's for sure. It will not. No, that's the thing I always ask for. And we have now a few coaches like even Clifford is doing with Goa Reserve doing really well. I think he is one guy who will be a very good coach someday. Clifford Miranda. For sure. Intelligent as a player, really intelligent as a player. And I think he's already picked up a pro license, I believe. Yeah, he's doing it soon, or the second phase, I think. So this guy, he is sensual. I feel that Clifford, along with Sameer, but Clifford, I feel he will do really well. Yeah, you kind of get a sense. But have you seen Clifford play? He's very receptive to Armando in that Dempio team. He was very receptive to Armando and the way what he wanted him to do.  Yeah, and he worked under many coaches, you know, Arthur Papas and then, you know, now even he's working closely with our under-23 coach. Derek. So Derek, yeah, sure. And then Derek has got a high regard for Clifford. And we were there in A license together and I could see that, you know, even along with Arata is the one. So Mehrazuddin has just got through, Isfag has got through. There are many young ones coming. We are competing in all levels, so let's see who will do well. So it will be a nice one. The young coaches are working hard to do well, yes. And Mehrazuddin... It will also be great to see your whole generation of... Sorry, go on. Sorry, go on. Yeah, Mehrazuddin did so well with the under-18 reaching the final of the iLeague. So, you know, we're working hard and let's see. It will also be great to see you, a bunch of former teammates coming together, sort of in competition with each other as coaches of the team. I will start the whole thing again. I just very quickly want to just say, I hope this Naroka story works out. And like, if it does, like kudos to the structure of football in the northeast, which is sort of allowing you to go, you know, from Sargalban, theoretically a competitive club into Naroka. And, you know, there seems to be an environment of sharing resources and experience and expertise, which in the long run will really help in the development of the sport in the region.  Yeah, you know, having a club from northeast, it has helped many players as well as young coaches like us. So if Mehrazuddin wants to come, Kasmeer is doing well. You know, Kasmeer bit Naroka two days back. And so with all this, before what happened was when we were young, only Isbengol Mohan Bagan, Dempo to some extent, and Churchill. So where do the coaches go? Where do the players go? Now we all have got, in the nearest place, so there are many players, young players who are from here, if they can't go to Isbengol Mohan Bagan, if it's too big, they can try here and test themselves. So this is a good platform for the players and for the new coaches, I believe. Okay, so if you guys are watching this and if this has worked out for Naroka, I just want to point out that you heard it here first. Okay, and we are going to have exclusive everything to Naroka from now on. Everything. So I'm going to move on from young coaches to young players, and that's a very smooth transition because now we can just talk about... about Indian arrows. Right. Oh, yeah. No, Indian arrows. They're playing tonight. For me, that, I know everyone's saying Chennai City and all, but if you just purely just be selfish and say development of Indian football, that for me is the story of the league. In the three years that this team, the under-17 team, has been put together, I know Indian arrows were theirs before that, but in the journey of this team, this is their best ever finish. They've finished eighth. So eighth must still be applauded. They've got the maximum number of points, 21 points. Last season, they got 15, but the only problem is they're still conceding a lot of goals. However, if you look at the goals they've conceded, a majority of those goals have come courtesy, play with the foreigners in the other teams. So Rendi Bhai, correct me if I'm wrong, if you remove foreigners from all the other teams, this team of Indian arrows is like the top three. Do you agree or not? Brother, I agree with you because it's very difficult to play without the foreigner, but they still fought and got the results. They haven't started well, honestly, but as the game progressed, they have improved a lot. And the last message you see, the way they have played against Mohan Bagan with all those high-profile foreigners in the ILEE, in Salt Lake, they did whatever they wanted to. And there was no answer from Mohan Bagan players. I was doing commentary on that, but I think they have done quite well. And this guy, credit should go to Mahesh Gowli and Pinto. Of course, yes. But then the thing is, will they be able to hold on to those players for long? And that's a big question. So again, actually, that's the big question because from what I understand, several of the players were on loan. Will leave for ISL clubs. And have also now gotten contracts with ISL teams. Borus is with ATKs and Amarjeet has gone to Jamshedpur. Anwar Ali has gone to Mumbai City. Jadav has gone to Jamshedpur. There were five players at Chennai. So the big question is... The big question is... I'm sorry to interrupt you, but the question also is, they will go to these ISL teams, but how much game time will they get in these ISL teams? I honestly think it could hamper their development. At the end of the day, you might be going to a bigger league where there's more competition and the cream of Indian players is playing there, but I still feel it could hamper their development. But there's a different situation. If you get so much money at one place, and as a professional player, if you get 20 or 20 times that amount, then you will go at the end of the day. How long will you stay here at the development phase? You've worked hard to get to a point where a big club is coming to you and saying, I'm offering you dollops of cash. So you won't think about the development phase. Okay, let's sign. So actually, let me throw this to Ishfaq and bring him in. We've spoken to him earlier about how and whether young players who are leaving for the ISL, what it means for them and what it means for their development. So let's hear from him first. Hi, guys. I think the idea behind having arrows was like to give them opportunity, provide them more game time. And I think they have done really good and rightly so some of them have signed with the big clubs. Regarding if they will go to the other clubs, this is where now they have to prove themselves and a better decision to make, whether to pick the money or to go in that team where they will feel that they will get the chance. So this is between them and their agents. I hope they will pick the right teams. And in football life, like once you are that 18, 19 and playing good, for everyone there, it came in my life, I am sure Renidhi will tell you the same where they have to make a decision which club to go. Because beyond that, I don't think arrows will keep them and this is now right time for to go to the bigger stage and perform there. Whether they will get the game chance there or game time there or not, that is up to the coach and the management and the players how to work hard to earn that place. Nobody will just give them that place. So actually now, I want to just put Renidhi in the uncomfortable spot of decoding this for us. When it comes to young players, they are going to the ISL, getting lesser game time but more money. When you were a young player, if you had this opportunity, how would you? Also, please. Yeah, see that the problem is where we had only one league those days and I was lucky as a 17-18 year old to get straight into Mohan Bagan and they were less foreigners those days. Only 203 were playing, not 5. So we still have chance 2 plus 1. So it was good for me, I straight into Mohan Bagan and I played 6 years, 6 years, 2 years but now, there is not 2 days, 5 players playing. So whoever coming in now, will they get a chance if they are not side back or wingers, if they are the core in the spine, it will be very very difficult. How many Indian strikers are going to get a chance? How many defensive midfielder are going to get a chance? Or how many stopper are going to get a chance? So I can understand the players, the young players, they have been offered very good money. How much money? 50-60 lakhs, I am sure some players have been offered. How are they getting paid right now? Approx, there must be not even a lakh. Maybe it's 5 times more. 50-60,000 Approx, 50-60,000. You are saying right now they are approximately earning about 10 lakhs and someone is offering you 60 lakhs in the ISL. So for a player as a human being you want to earn more, right? The players when you are earning 10 lakhs here and 60 lakhs they have been offering, for sure or they should stay for one more year and stuff, but as a player you want that money also. Many people may say that, why people are playing for the money and he should stay one more year but it's all said and then it's a very difficult one. But I am sure and they must be thinking that they have done well in the ISL, right? So they will be thinking, if I have done well in the ISL why not, I can do there also. So if 10 players go one or two will do well it will be very very difficult. Look at all the foreigners in Goa, look at all the foreigners the central midfielder they are playing where on earth they are going to get a chance. I am not saying never, say never but it will take time. But at this point of time, if they don't get a game time they will finish. Yeah, it's always a... The question is the game time or the money so you have to balance it out and how do we balance it out and since you are such a huge fan of the administrative side of Indian football and since you always love supporting them I am going to now put you in the situation of saying, can they do something? Can they help out in this situation? Is there something for them to think about? So this is one of those things where I am on the side of the guys who are doing the administration because this game is a huge plus and there are few things that come in and one is that if you have a developer squad it's also essential that the people, the workforce in that squad keeps getting rotated on a regular basis so that new blood keeps coming in you can't expect the whole idea of this team is to keep it at 121, 122 so year on year you will have two batches of players coming in and I think the development in terms of at least the technical ability of Indian players is very rapid now so year on year the basic fundamental technical skills that the players come in with change now you look at a guy like not my favourite player from the 117 world cup squad but guy like Komal at ATK I think he's got quite a few games at ATK this season you look at a kid like Hiraj in gold he is a regular for the ISL clubs I feel like Amarjeet for example in the centre he's developed physically to a hell of a lot so he's now looking like a man instead of a boy that he won maybe second string maybe as a substitute he'll get a chance to develop I don't know I would defer to Renédy's experience and knowledge of these things for sure because he knows it much better than any of us do but I think players need to and their agents and their families and those who are advising them need to consider these authors very carefully before they get into it like would I go to a club like Tum Ketul yes would I go to Goa maybe not you know and a kid like so Anikey Jadav playing as a striker he won't play as a striker bro he won't play as a striker so for him to spend 3 months at Blackburn Rovers preparing for next season might physically put him in position to be able to compete against some of the guys who will be playing for his position you know so I like that there's thought going into the whole process at every step of the way I know that some of these things are more PR driven than anything else and all that but still the fact is that if he plays at Blackburn or spends 3 months at Blackburn at the training camp he will come back physically stronger hopefully inshallah come back physically stronger more intelligent more exposed to how football works at a higher level and then be able to bring that on to the training pitch when he joins up with Tum Ketul teammates so the potential is there and I really think and I hope the arrows have a chance because this project was started once before when these boys were under Bob Houghton and the project was first started and then after the season it was because of money issues it was cut off again then resumed so I hope this is a project that whatever the league structure that evolves next season I hope it's a project that could continue what I want to say here is that you know they should continue of course I know that money but they should continue for one more year in the meantime in one year there will be under 17 the under 17 the coach by Viviano will be ready or in one or two years so if that's a plan it is good but then the players this year they have done well but next year if they can stay it will be great for the Indian side because they are going to you run the risk of getting stale also that you are performing for 2 years clubs are constantly knocking on your door till how long will you constantly keep on saying and the name of development you run the risk of being stale also motivation level yeah I know that those players wanting to get out from there because the money they think they can play of course some of them for sure they will play if Sunil as an Indian striker can play so well I feel that Sunil plays better football than some of the foreigners striker they want to be the next Sunil for sure they must be thinking it's a young guy 19 year old playing so well if Sunil can play we can also play but Sunil has got so much of game time before he went into ISL it has helped so I think they need to get but the problem is will they be staying back by getting less amount of money and not going with big money to big clubs I remember the first interview that we did with Gurpreet Singh Sandu I think it was 2014 or 15 when he was about to go abroad when he was going to Starbucks he wrote the story where patience he said was a critical element in his development process I think Randy will agree with this and maybe he can make a point yeah yeah see now brother if you see Gurpreet is the Bengal he was good but he was not the best and he went to Norway Norway he couldn't save any money and Gurpreet knows that but just to improve his game he stayed there for 4 years I think for 5 years he stayed there and look where Gurpreet is how much money is earning so whatever Siddhan said right now I agree because it's all depend on the player also if they are sensible enough if they know that staying by staying here they will improve their game then they should because money will surely follow but just because of 60-70 lakhs you went in and you don't get a chance to play and after that when you don't play for a year in this competitive football world it's very difficult to come back okay I'm going to pause this conversation here because I think this can go on for a while and this should go on for a while but I think the guys who are watching it are sort of drifting away so let's get it back to a slightly more romantic story again and I'm going to hit Ishwak again bringing it to Rihal Kashmir and he can give us a quick little review of Rihal Kashmir season and then I'll see you guys after Hi, regarding Rihal Kashmir I think it was very clear from the beginning only when they qualified from the 2nd division to the 1st division they said now the immediate thing is build a good strong team to survive in this league not like this year ahead or the next year it's relegated so that was clearly in their plans to stay in this league not to win this league or finish in top end or something like that it was just to okay even if we get one place above relegation we'll be happy so we'll build up on that and then try to make a good team for the next year but what a performance they had in this season I think brilliant like really tough to beat in home and unfortunately they had to play that last match away from their home which costed them actually a league for me but and the less I think they will be happy where they finished and let's hope they will do good in Super Cup René, you also commented on several Rihal Kashmir games this season so your observations on what they've been like the Rihal Kashmir coach should get all the credit if you see the names you don't even know when was the last time he played in any club if you see Rihal Kashmir and the player, there is one player I heard he played well against he assists two goals against the free guy and he didn't even get a club honestly he was not getting a club in any of the I-League, Surya Sandrasing and he scored six goals or something and six goals and he assists a lot so imagine a player who was not getting any club in the I-League went to Rihal Kashmir and then he performed so well so then the credit should go to the coach also for selecting him and then played almost all the match we give credit to Chennai City coach, the Singaporean really have done well but we shouldn't forget the Rihal Kashmir coach for what they have done with the team we don't know many players from there but the way they have played also they are a tough team to play they came to Manipur, beat Narokai and went back and then the way they have played and the guy there is one player called Robertson, I think that's coach Sun he can play in any position, striker, defender so then there are many players, they all are not great players but as a team they are great players as a unit, they are a great team and they perform really well and I think the fact that they conceded far less goals than any other team absolutely, they had the most free treats they have kept 10 free treats this season so we talk about Pandit, we talk about open game when a beautiful game we see in ICT with Rihal Kashmir we see a counter attack game but what a philosophy this is also, they don't concede too many goals quick counter attack come back and wait again to start so two different kind but what a lovely football those two teams have played but just one very quick point I wanted to make a small point is that the Rihal Kashmir story extends way beyond the football field for me I mean the right points you guys have made on the football field think about the coach himself, he is a Scottish coach and he is in a part of the world where a lot of them have been given advisories to not be there they are coaching there how many Kashmiri boys are in that team a majority of the players have come from all over the country and have made their base in Kashmir, Srinagar despite all that is happening and they have continued to perform for that team so one should not get that they have brought their son to play the whole family has come I mean that is the perfect adjustment for the valley absolutely you need to have a big heart and big decision not at all, big decision, big heart and then every Kashmiri should feel great that he is a coach, I am a big fan of that coach a six time Scottish family winner a legend in Glasgow and stuff like that so I think boxing is a concept called Lineal Champion and Kashmir have beaten Chennai city twice this season both times they have faced them so the Kashmiri story will continue and we can only hope that we will see them further on now let's wrap up this show there is a lot of it everyone please one favourite best player only Indians though I will start with the coach on the panel first yes please one is not fair one you can't but then there is I would come up with two one striker and one defender striker Joey Zestin has been one of the best player I feel and then in the defender Gora Bora the guy who scored two goals in the decision making match I think both of them Gora Bora and Joey Zestin they both have done really really well so we can toss a coin whoever so we can if you have to choose one yeah who would you rather have at Naroka good question right now Joey Gora Bora I like how you did that even there I know because Naroka has been conceded we need one good defender fair enough so Gora in case you are watching this Siddhan not really going necessarily only on performance but for the fact that this guy has been someone who we have been watching now from the time he has been he was 15 years old and how he has consistently developed season after season whether it is in the national set up over the club side I would go with Boris the arrows with that I think phenomenal really solid got good pace got great heart 100% 100% has ability to get forward get that transition for me he is this phenomenal talent and I hope he does really really well so that brings us to you I would go with Boris as well and I am going to add to a point with Siddharth I agree with everything he is saying Boris is the stand out winger that India has been looking for and for me if you put Boris and Udanta I would put Boris ahead of Udanta just because Boris yeah man he gives you everything in defense he gives you people things going in front you see the Mohan Bagan game you brought up you saw that ability to just take on players this is something we don't see too often in Indian players and the pace which he breaks past players and then comes back to help his defenders out defenders out of position that is why for me Boris is the stand out player to watch out for but one more name which you hit from the top of the lace which is a dip he is found some consistency in that he is hitting the target with that so that could be a serious weapon for India going forward gentle smile from René D for the free kick no but Pandit said even even Siddhan Boris is a guy as a winger I think he will be perfect they don't have anyone at the back I think he has been playing as a wing back but like in Mohan Bagan match we have seen how dangerous he can be with that speed he will be in one or two years as a winger we will have if he can continue working the same or play the same in two years we will be able to see the best winger if he keep working and stay humble the problem is that if he can stay humble and work but René D you remember two years ago when we went to Boris's house in Imfal where we met his family there I think given the roots and where he comes from I think humility is something that will come naturally to him and I hope he will be able to very right there I hope he will be able to stay honest and stay real looking at the parents I feel that he will stay humble we don't hold his social media and stuff a lot of other people are surrounding players nowadays and so that humility and humbleness irrespective of what your background might be I think it's a little tough at this time especially when you are jumping from say a 10 lakh to 60 lakh and as happy as we are for players that is the real challenge I think he points out perfectly René so there you go the midfielder has picked a defender and the wingers have picked wingers any other comments? that's our show


Okay. Thank you for introduction. So, I actually wanted to introduce myself, but I only requested 30-minute slots, so we don't have time for it. So, feel free to ask me out if you are interested in anything. So, today we'll be talking about Ansible and Builder. And I would like to introduce both tools, because I'm pretty sure that most of you know all of them. But let's be nice with the newcomers and introduce what are these. But I'll do it on my way, and I'll introduce those, how I feel about those tools. Okay, let's start with Ansible. So, for me, Ansible is actually two things. First, it's a tool. So, I can just go DNF install Ansible, and that's it. I just install it on it. I can start using it right away. It doesn't need any clients or servers or demons or any special configuration. Just like you install it and you can use it right away. So, it's a tool. Then other thing, it's actually language or definition language. And there's an example on the right side. So, you just write this Ansible playbook. You define what you want to achieve, and then you just use the tool and run it on some target system. So, the target system could be your local machine. It could be a virtual machine. It could be your 10,000 servers in the cloud. So, you can use this tool to do such things. So, Ansible provision infrastructure. Then we have Builder. So, what's Builder? Again, it's a tool. You just DNF install Builder, and you can use it right away. You don't need to, like, system control, start anything, then edit some crazy config file, just install it, and you can use it right away. It's a tool.  And you can do it in multiple ways. So, you probably know the one when you use Docker files. So, Builder can create container images using Docker files. It can also create container images from scratch.  And finally, you can script the process yourself, like, you don't need to use any Docker files at all. You can write simple batch scripts or whatever you want. You can create container, put some files in there, run some commands, then commit it, and you have your image. You don't need to use any Docker files, anything special. I've already seen people writing very simple shell scripts which create their container images, and they are very happy about it. They are not constrained by any special formats or anything like that. Okay, these are the tools we'll be using today, this presentation. So, I just talk about tool which does provisioning and tool which does building images. So, the question is, like, how can we make them work together? And so, this is DevConf, and we love all these technical details. Please, I love to. And we already had some very technical presentations, so let's keep up the pace. And I'll describe how this work, like, how this can work together. So, luckily, in Ansible Team, we have some very smart people working in there, and the way Ansible actually connects to the target environment is actually a plug-in. There are dozens of plug-ins for connecting to, like, virtual machines or containers or your local host. And if you're using Ansible, you're probably using mostly SSH plug-in or local plug-in, so that, like, SSH plug-in connects to some environment, and you already have this all set up because you're in SSH, right? And Ansible just takes advantage of it and runs all the commands, copies files over there. And with local, it just, it doesn't need to copy or run anything. You just run it locally on your local host. So, these are probably the most too-known connection plug-ins for Ansible. So, and there is also a connection plug-in for Builda. And what does it actually mean to write such a connection plug-in? It's actually very simple. You just need to implement two simple methods. Two of them are copying files to the environment, copying files from the environment, and the third one is running in the target environment. So, how do we do this with Builda? Okay, so, we have our container. It's, like, probably some, like, mount point somewhere. And we just need to do Buildamount. And then we can copy files to that directory or copy them from them. Okay, so we have two done. So, the third one is running commands. So, how do we do that? Luckily, we have Buildarun command. So, we can do Buildarun, our container, and then it's being run in the container. So, that's pretty much it. So, this is how the connection plug-in looks. And there's an example on the screen. So, we can see that we, first we are doing Buildamount. Then we have a path where we can interact with the container. And then we just do Buildarun. And we can run containers, commands inside. So, pretty simple, right? Okay, so, let's try it. So, here is probably the simplest way how you can use Ansible, use your Ansible playbooks, and build images with them. And, to be honest, like, I actually took this example from one of our projects. Like, this is what we are using in production. We, we actually started with Ansible. We were running it directly on the VM. But then we realized, okay, we want to put it in a container. So, it doesn't mean that I have to rewrite it as a Docker file right now. Nope. So, we just did this and it works pretty nice. So, the only downside is that there's no caching. So, we always need to run from scratch. That's actually pretty bad. But it works. So, this is how we are using it. But then after a couple of months, I was like, yeah, it's pretty neat. I can use Ansible. But I would like to get all those, like, very nice build features like caching or, I don't know, even like one command, not running these five crazy commands. So, I realized that, okay, so I'll start the new tool which will pretty much wrap these five commands and I'll use it. And then I keep adding more and more features. And right now, I'm using it in like a couple, in a couple of projects. You're actually the first crowd I'm talking publicly about the tool. I'm working on it for a couple of months. And it actually works very nice. So, its name is Ansible Bender. Actually, Dan has the name. I need to work on it probably. So, we have Futurama reference. So, the tool bends containers and makes them, turns them into container images. And obviously, it has shiny body parts. So, what it can do? So, the first thing I wanted to have it in there, like, to have builds as first class citizens. Like, in the tools such as Docker or even Builda, you can do builds, but you can't say like, okay, I would like to know the state of the build from three weeks ago. Or I would like to know what builds I just did. Or I would like to see build logs from my previous build. So, in the tool, I actually, like, there's, every build has its build ID and you can reference in bunch of commands to the build. So, I'll show it in the demo. Where's the time? Oh, never mind. Yeah, I'll show it in the demo. Then, whenever you build the image, you can push it to, like, registry or even Docker or even to a file. And this is just a simple wrapper on top of Builda push. So, it's very simple. And finally, it has configurable layering and caching. So, you can, like, in half of your playbook, you can say, okay, I don't want to cache anymore and I want to run next task, like, forever. Or like, every time. This is very useful when you are doing commands such as git clone when you want to be sure that you have the latest tip of your branch. Obviously, it's, like, the tool is only a couple of months old, so there's still several downsides. So, one of them is that it doesn't work in rootless mode with overlay. But luckily, we met together with the container team yesterday and we were able to figure it out. So, I'll probably fix it in couple, in next week.  So, I want to change this and include this metadata inside the playbook and that's what I'll probably do next as well. Okay. So, this is my last slide. Or actually, this wasn't my last slide yesterday, but I realized that, okay, so, I talk about some tools and how I'm using it, but you probably feel like, okay, I'm using my way and it's very, very okay for me. So, what does this guy trying to tell me? So, I realized that I should probably speak why, like, why should we care about this? But for that, I actually need to put my ansible hat off and, like, think about it like, I'm not using ansible, so why should I care? So, first things are that, like, right now, the industry standard for building images is Docker files. Like, everyone using it, that's pretty much a standard. And what I really don't like about Docker files, especially when a couple of years ago, when we were trying to do build system within Red Hat and in Fedora for building images was that Docker files are custom formats. It's not a JSON or YAML or anything like this. It's a custom format and there's no specification. So, obviously, there's no library to manipulate them. So, we actually need to write our own and, yeah, it wasn't easy. So, the first thing, second thing is when you write a Docker file, you can only use it to build a Docker image. And that's it. Like, you can't use it to provision your VM or to try to run locally. Like, you can do only images. So, then, you should duplicate your work. You need to write some shell script or ansible playbooks and Docker files. And they can do, like, the same thing. Next thing, what I really hate or probably just, like, it's not actual anymore, but a couple of years ago, I was really frustrated that there was no features being done in Docker site for Builder and Docker files. They actually canceled all the pull requests, closed all the issues and said, like, Builder, right now we are trying to get it out of Docker and we don't accept any contributions. So, sorry. And this was for a couple of years and people were, like, okay, but I want to do volume mounts during Build, but, yeah, sorry, we don't accept any things. And this was really frustrating. So, actually, these two talks about this, they've come so we're interested to do some other links. And then Ansible Designer project came and I realized that I can actually use something else, no Docker files to build my images and actually, like, light bulb on top of my head and realize that I can do it differently. And then Builder came and actually, I really love Builder, that it's a tool, it's not a demon or anything like it. It allows you to do all these different things. You can pretty much set your own workflow. You can build from scratch, build from Docker file, write a shell script and it's actually, like, you can do it on your own. You don't need to be locked to, like, single format, single platform. You can do it however you want. Okay, so this is the talk and are you interested in a demo? Okay, let's do it. Okay, so right now I'm inside the repo of the tool and I have a bunch of tests and testing playbook. So, let's try it out. Okay, so this is how you run the tool. It's like Ansible Bender, Build, then pass to the playbook, then the base image you want to use and then name of the image. So, I just hit enter. Yeah, if you are familiar with Ansible, this is the normal Ansible output. It's actually running the playbook. And then if you are familiar with Builder, this is the normal output from Builder when the image is done and ready for you. So, right now I can do, actually Build Images. Don't be scared. And this is my image I just built. As I said, I treat, like, Builds as a first-class citizen. So, I can do List Builds. And I did two builds, one in the morning when I was trying it out and the other one right now. So, I can List Builds. I can, I can get logs. If I don't specify ID is the latest build. So, I can see the logs. I can even inspect the build. And here are all the metadata about the build. So, if you want to tinker around or play with it or see what's going on, you can see everything in there. So, this is the tool. So, I'm not saying, like, this is the best way to build your images and you should use it right now. So, this is how I do it and it works very well for me. So, maybe it will be useful for you. And maybe not. Maybe you keep using dogger files or use Builder with scratch, with the scratch method or write or simple shell script. The point is that there are multiple ways of doing it and it's really up to you what suits you best. So, I guess we can turn it to questions. All right, yeah. Thank you. That's a very good point. So, what was the playbook? Okay, so the playbook is very simple. So, first two tasks are actually related to debugging when I was playing with it and it didn't work and I had to see all the environment variables. And the second, two tasks are really what you do in your builds all the time. Run commands and copy files so that I'm sure that it, like, works to some extent. As I said, it's very simple. So, are there any more questions? So, the question was how the resulting image looks with the layering strategy. So, the tool UncivilBender has dedicated Uncivil callback plugin and this plugin is involved during the task execution. So, after every task is executed, like the container state, it snapshots it so it has all the layers. But you can, as I said, you can easily turn it off. So, I should be able to do some, like, tags, no cache. If I do this, like, from that point onwards, like, caching is disabled and all the tasks afterwards will be run every time. There was also a question over here. Sorry, I don't understand the question. So, is the question whether the resulting image will contain this file? Yes. So, this is actually the limitation of Uncivil that you need to have Python interpreted on your target environment. So, I actually didn't speak about it too much. I'm really sorry. It was this slide. So, if you look in the middle, in Uncivil, you need to define your inventory file so that Uncivil knows to which host or to which environment it should connect. So, we are doing it over here. So, our environment is the container. We'll be using the build up connection plugin and then we tell it where the Python interpreter is located in the target environment. So, you need to have Python inside your container. So, yes, there is a base image. And when you saw how I run the build, so this is the command line to run the build. It's build command. Then pass to the playbook and this is the base image. So, we are using Federa 29. So, are there any more questions? So, if not, feel free to stop by, say hi and I can speak about anything you want. Thank you very much for attending. Thank you very much.


Okay, so, okay, I actually started on this. So this is the forum. All of the, be patient while I actually get this mouse over to the corner. The mouse is really difficult. The mouse is like, whoa. Yeah, it's like 1993. Yeah. Okay.  And if you click on playlists there, you'll see the developer's form is the second playlist that's currently, that's actually there. I would actually go and do a live click to this, but I don't know if this is wise with this mouse. And that basically has like these monthly meetings. Also, if you go to the Bioconductor calendar on the events and you can subscribe to this, it's a Google calendar. So just subscribe, it's the easiest way and then it just pops up. We never, at least I never remember to go to the website and check it. I just have it, I just subscribed it. Basically, it's, I think it's the, the second Thursday of every month, isn't it? And at the moment, Mike Smith is the guy who organizes that. And he would very much appreciate if somebody else wanted to help organizing the developers forum meeting. So it's a great opportunity to keep recently developed packages or anybody just to talk maybe about problems that they're having, things that they've found useful. It's an open kind of discussion for developers. Okay, so other things that are available. So we recognized kind of the developer section of the website is maybe not the easiest to develop. So we're redeveloping that and this is very much work with Kevin who should be on the online call. Kevin, are you online? I am here, I see myself. So I don't know if people can see me. Yeah, we can see you now. Cool. I try to, okay. So Kevin, so Kevin basically created this contribution stuff by a conductor.org, which is much, I really do want to kind of show it, which is much more, yes, it is working, which is much more extensive. And hopefully, you know, you can go to the GitHub, you can edit this page, you can find out something that you think would be useful to have there, please suggest edits to this as well. But this is hopefully going to be a better landing spot for new developers. We're also using this within the mentorship program and we hopefully have more information there for developers and questions that they may be having. So hopefully this will kind of take over from that the other sites are supports them at least. The developers forum I mentioned, I'm going to mention the mentoring program in a second. Hey, so the, oops. The mentorship program is something that we just started this year. We're literally like, Kelly is one of the mentors on the program, Nitesh and Marcel who are also here at the meeting or other mentors on that program. I don't know, I'm Celestyn, sorry, Nitesh is. And the idea is that we pair new people who basically have something on GitHub but want to get it into Bioconductor and we pair them with somebody who's experienced. And anybody can apply to be a mentor. The criteria we kind of used was you had to have two packages in Bioconductor. So somebody who had experience of getting packages in. And then the mentees applied to join the program. We did review kind of the code that mentees had on GitHub if it was really not at all and anything remotely resembling R for the complete mix of languages all over the place. We kind of pointed them to maybe start here and you're not really ready to start beginning to put something into Bioconductor. But as long as it looked like it was, maybe had the semblance of becoming coming like in our package, we accepted them into the program. And then the, do you want to talk about that actually is how you've been finding it? Yeah, yeah. I think this program has been really great actually. So we didn't have that many, maybe like a dozen people signed up to be mentees. And then all of us sort of went through and looked at the different projects and basically said like, yeah, I think this one's a potential for the program. This one's maybe not quite there yet, like you said. And it's been, I think really great from the mentee aspect because they get personalized attention. They get all their questions answered and just having, you know, seeing the progress over the course of the few meetings that we've had with them and I think it's been really helpful. So a big fan. Yeah. And so this is like, we're just trying and this is the first time. And so we're hoping that our mentees can get packages into the October cycle. And then the plan would be to kind of really like meet with everybody, learn from this first cycle and hopefully begin another cycle in probably September, Kevin, to probably do a call for people then to start with for the... I think that was open for discussion, really. I was looking at the... So we do have an open forum. I'm gonna dig up the link again now, but so there's a rolling call for new mentees and so I can see five of them at the moment. So we are sort of balancing the number of mentors and mentees, always welcoming people who are willing to give their time. But yeah, so we haven't sat on a date yet for the next role, but I think that's gonna be our next discussion point. And as soon as new mentors become available, I guess that's one of the limiting factors at the moment. Yeah. So if people want to... Yes. I was just wondering if you could just remind how the mentees are... How you let mentees know or anyone, how you let them know if they can apply to be a mentee, because it wasn't clear to me how mentees can... So we have a Google forum. I can put the links on this. It's on the website. Do I have the link here to the website? That would be... It's also... Do I have the link to the website? That's a really useful thing if I had it. Nope, I'm looking at all the other pages here and I'm going the wrong way around things. No, I don't have a link to the... If I go to kind of the front bioconductor website page here... Okay, we go into the developer section. It's actually linked from here. Okay, get me there quicker, please. I think I... I mean, if you're looking for the application for the mentee... Yeah, it's a new developer's program. That's it here. Okay. Yeah, and so on the new developer program here, we actually have Join as a Mentor, Join as a Mentee, and we've got two Google forms there. And we just basically... We have announced on the support site and on Twitter when these have been opened. At the moment, the mentees is on a rolling form. We probably should have the mentors on a rolling form as well, but we kind of did... We did a call. We reviewed the applicants to the mentorship program and then we closed it, but maybe we should reopen that again soon to get the next set of mentors in. And I think we also want to probably have a meeting first and just learn from everything and the experience and the existing mentors, I think are really going to guide us on how we move forward with that. Oh, is the program strictly for just all the packages or is there interest in expanding it to other developers? For example, do we all have to use cloud resources, something like that? I hadn't thought about that. Literally, we were just thinking of getting packages from GitHub into Bioconductor, and that was the focus of this. But that, I think, would be... I can see using cloud resources is something that a lot of people have a lot of questions about. So that may well be... I don't know if that's something that would be better on the developer's forum, but maybe then mentorship for that might actually be a good... I don't know, what do people think? Vince, what do you think? I like the idea. This is a feature of the project that I think has always been very important, but does not get tremendous publicity. It's an educational project, as well as a software repository. So writing papers about the scope of it, understanding from the mentorship process, which I assume includes a lot of recording of changes in GitHub repositories, right? We can start to learn about the patterns that people got themselves into and then got themselves out of by being mentored. I think there's a lot of scope for developing data and metrics that would ultimately lead to a more efficient path into the system for anybody who wants to get in there. What Alex is proposing, I think, is going outside of that, not talking about packages anymore, we may be talking about a strategy of using data resources that would ultimately help packages, or we may be thinking about something which orchestrates multiple packages in a workflow in a way that's good when we are using the cloud or in a much changed computing. I do think that there's like, for people like myself, the dummies guide to the cloud would actually be, and getting it up and started by a conductor. Even though I've attended lots of these workshops, I still, I'm a bit unhesitant on stuff. So I do think it would be a really, really great thing to do and to have, yeah. And at different levels of work to come in at, but yeah. I would volunteer to do that. And also even like for the mentorship program, something like you have a package, but you wanna do something to be able to scale it to the cloud, like so that you can add some cloud scaling in your package, something like that, that might be more related to packages, but still needing some cloud infrastructure. Yeah, so that's a great, let's... It's certainly be a good topic for a talk on the developers forum. It would be a fantastic discussion on the developers forum, I think, as well. So yeah, so there's multiple places where I think we can take that idea forward. So any other questions on the developer program? Is there a thought about how this connects to the carpentries? So most of the carpentries at the moment are very much geared at brand new beginners. So, you know, it's kind of the introduction to R and introduction to R and AC, because like a two day course. So that's very much aimed at people who are starting from an Excel spreadsheet and working into how to get that into R and how to do very basics. So I think whereas we could develop some of this into the carpentries at the moment, I think maybe it's better to let the carpentries be for beginners initially, and then we will probably expand that out as we get more instructors and more people involved. The other things I wanted to mention. Okay, so that's that. So the other ways, like, and I think this, your suggestion of that the cloud base would be a perfect new working group as well. You know, I think get yourself, and then other people who want to basically have a cloud and bio conductor working group would be Berlin's suggestion, because then you can think of the various different ways and get other people on board to help you as well. Because sometimes we all have these great ideas and then we realize we run out of time. So if you can get more people to help you, it's always good. Two things that Laurie is doing at the moment is like package review. So if you're kind of a developer and sometimes it's good to learn from other people's mistakes. So if you're reviewing somebody else's code, you sometimes can learn about your own coding, whether, you know, good things and bad things. So like, you know, for people who've developed already and have that kind of experience, joining the package review or the package triage groups are good ways to be involved. And these slides were presented as part of the CAB, like what the package review and the triage is as well. I thought I had one other slide there. Okay. And then I just wanted to mention, I just want to open this to everybody in a second, but we have like, there's multiple kind of Slack channels. Does everybody know where the Slack is? Anybody who doesn't, who isn't on Slack or who doesn't know about the developer Slack? Okay. Seems like everybody does. Yeah. So the channels, there's developer mentorship, which is the mentorship program. Sorry. There's somebody online. Sorry. Yeah, I just raised the hand. I was about to say, I literally just posted in my last message in the chat, the link to the by-conductor Slack. So if people wonder about it, it's on the by-connector main page, but out of a different conversation, I just posted the link. Brilliant. Thanks, Kevin. And on the Slack, there's a couple of different channels. So one is the developer mentorship. So if you've got any questions about the developer mentorship program, and you want to be a mentor or a mentee, that's a really good place to ask those questions. The developer's form, which is the monthly zoom, one hour zoom, basically on the topics related, that might be of interest to developers. Other places, which would be great to see more developers be involved is on two diversity and inclusions channels. One is a diverse bio-sea. And the other is accessible this. So that's basically how do we make everything that we're doing accessible to most people. So it was started by a couple of people that were actually colorblind and wanted to make sure, particularly with single cell, where there's all these UMAPs, which are completely unintelligible because it's all my color, so many people. And I just put in the Slack, so the email address for the community advisory board there, which is another way to try and just contact a lot of us that are on this. But I kind of just want to open this up to find out what do people need, what do developers want, what do you want to contribute as much as what you want to need, what do you feel like you need? So just, I would just like to put in a plug for the mentorship program. If you're thinking about becoming a mentor, like I would say, absolutely do it. We were very worried at the beginning of the program about sort of how much of a time commitment it would be. And honestly, it's been very tight, it's been very easy. Had maybe six meetings or so over the course of like three months with one of my mentees who's now like her package is ready to go, ready to submit. The other one has been a little bit more drawn out, but the meetings have been more sparse and they're still ongoing. So it's adaptive to what the mentee needs, but it really, it's just been like a one hour meeting, no more than like every other week, pretty light time commitment. And I think it's really great to have that sort of thing in place because at least for me, I was very lucky. I had a postdoc when I was a grad student who had made bio conductor packages before and sort of knew the tips and tricks. And so being able to provide that for other people is just very rewarding and like pretty simple once you've done it once and you sort of know how the process works. Anybody online? Want to come in with comments, questions, suggestions? What do you think would really have helped you most in kind of your journey from user to developer? So I'll just talk for my like, so I know that you were mentioning hackathons, bio conductor hackathons. And I think that that might be something like, you know, interesting like where people can learn how to develop in our package that like we actually, our package, like by package basically is a product of our labs hackathon where none of us basically knew how to develop in our package but Nathan like taught us like all of the like roles, what it needs. And I think that it was just a nice kind of like practical experience when you kind of like dive into it and you learn on the run. So like it's just, you know, a suggestion like what could be like potentially like a teaching experience for people who might be, who might be like into this. And what do you think works best in that hackathon situation? What makes it successful to a failure in a hackathon? You just, it's just, you definitely have to have someone like organized there. Like you have to be like, you know, it has to have a structure. It's not like, oh, let's do a program and let's, let's do like a program and we'll see how it goes. And let's all brainstorm like, no, it has to be definitely like structured. Like you will take care of this, you'll take care of this. But as the people are coming together, you're kind of like learning what like individual people are still doing. It has to be interconnected. But I think that it's still pretty scary. I think I find hackathons incredibly scary. Like I always get there and I have no idea what to do ever. But like this experience kind of like helped me maybe just like smaller groups with someone like who is kind of like leading it. But, and maybe just have a session kind of like at the beginning just about the organization of the, of the like, you know, R package. Like when I started an R package, I had no idea even like how the files are organized within it. And, and, you know, just kind of instead of doing a workshop, it would be basically something like, you know, developers workshop with a potential of an end product actually that you're not just learning, but you're motivated by, by creating something. And I think that that's just, it just kind of motivates you more to do that. Yeah. I think the hackathon ideas is very welcome one. One of the things I would want to watch out for is the notion that I'm going to develop a package. We're going to submit it, it'll be admitted, and then undone. Undone, yeah. And so one place to put a hackathon is on existing packages because none of them are perfect. Many of them can be improved in many ways. Documentation for example, how do you add documentation? How do you verify and make sure that it is aesthetically attractive? And so on. Those are things that many people don't know how to do. And so one could do something that is not as hard as a de novo package, but it's an incremental improvement to many of the packages that already exist. It's a possible framework for a, even a multi package hackathon where you can learn about different features of keeping packages going. And be a member of the community that is improving the whole ecosystem, rather than contributing one pack. I did try to do that once with the IOC check and maybe it's time to do another one again. Because we tried to do one like that, like the IOC check for most of our ourselves and minds. This is still on. And I do think that that's actually great. Like in the end, this is how our hackathon, like the lab hackathon was. There was already a package, but yeah, it just needed to go further. And I think that's like, once you have something, like creating our package, like from, you know, from scratch, it's not that hard. It's just like few commands, right? But like, yeah, then knowing actually really how to organize it and how it should be done. And like, you know, like what's to avoid that, like there was the learning experience. So yeah, that is a good point. One more thought about a learning experience, which is fixing something that's truly broken. And you may deliberately break something and have somebody fix it and learn how to use the debugger and so forth. These are things which are essential to development, but many people do not really get into debugging and profiling and making things go faster and so forth. So there's a series of topics that we should probably organize somewhere that we can just work on to improve our, you know, the on-ramp for those who are going to develop and become experts, that's what we will see. So who wants to, anybody who is interested in taking this on, because that's my, like my own, anybody who knows me, I'm very much on, let's actually plan something out of this, rather than come up with a wish list on the couch. Would anybody like to work with us? I can take notes on that. Yeah, is there anybody else who'd like to work on this?  I think the volunteering package is like, you know, advertising is your package broken, like we can, like let's fix it. And, you know, then it can be a contributor, like you can have a name on a paper when it comes out, you know. But yeah, but yeah, I'm not offering it at this point. Yeah. Okay, so I think I could volunteer any package I've worked on, it's like, you know, something that needs help. Yeah, I'll volunteer a package, definitely. Well, maybe we need the, you know, the package hospital. And we can... A little triage process. What? A little triage process. Well, if there's some packages, I think Laurie could probably be able to identify that are close to triage, but that are actually very popular. And maybe they're more important than other packages to get done. Yeah, probably. And that was kind of like the idea of the package triage group, too, is that not, I mean, you can get, like for me, I don't have time. My email is normally your package is broken on Bioconductor, and you've been ignoring the automatic notifications for too long. And like I said, I'm imagining bears and bioconductor. The less I don't have time to like really get into why the error is occurring, and I can point you to the build system about the error is where people are more interested in getting involved, even something like that of doing a little bug report for packages that they know are failing, that are of interest, and just either put in full request in for those packages, or at least giving them a more informative, like error message, or that they can pinpoint why it's occurring more. Because sometimes that's half the battle. Again, not necessarily a good requirement to be on the package trio. You could just send your email and be done, but yeah. Okay, so maybe we send an email or some sort of a list out so people can say that their package needs to go under a package rescue, I can apologize. So we call it package rescue or package hospital. Yeah, package hospital, package hospital. Okay, we're going to start off a package hospital. For where we can have, we can use Nathan's group hackathon format to actually then try and rescue them if people can volunteer for that. Okay, I know we're over time here, and there's a lot of other exciting things on the schedule, so I won't keep people. We've come up with a couple of very concrete ideas, basically the cloud-based, which I think is great that we go ahead with that basically. Also the package hospital and hackathon down to package hospitals. I think those are really great ideas. So thank you, everybody. Thank you, everyone online. If there's any other ideas you have, please continue the discussion on Slack.