And can we change our genetics from our lifestyle? Some of the questions we're gonna be asking on today's episode, and I have brought in a genetics expert, Dr. Erica Gray, the Chief Medical Officer of My Toolbox Genomics. Dr. Gray, thank you for being here, how you doing? I'm doing fabulous, thanks for having me, James. So tell me about genetics, our genes, genomics. Just tell me a little bit about your understanding of that and your research in that and what kind of findings you have discovered in terms of how that influences our physical health overall. As a child, my father, who's a civil engineer would often take me out to jobs with him so we could have some bonding time and he could kind of teach me a few things. And the first stop we always had to make was at the city and it was terribly boring, especially as a child. And one day I said, can we just skip this part? Because you would always walk away with massive amounts of blueprints and I said, this is really tedious for me. He said, no, I can't because this is where I get the lay of the land. This is where I know where the sewer line is and the manhole. He goes, I can't do my job without these blueprints. And it occurred to me that we practiced medicine without checking our blueprint. Our DNA is our blueprint to us. It's that guide and now it is so accessible and it's economical. We can actually get that information to really start understanding what does that health trajectory look like and then what are the steps that we can take to change that trajectory if it's not in alignment with what we envision for ourselves. Yeah. So is it possible to change our genetics as we get older? It, we can't change our genes because that's what we're born with but we can change the expression of it. And that's the study of epigenetics. That's it, yeah. So I read a book, I think it was called Epigenetics or something like that by Shole and Molem or I think as Sharon Molem I think it was. And there was something, there was a study that showed that they had, they look at two twins and one of them was bullied at school and the other one was not. And in later life, the one who was bullied suffered from obesity and diabetes. The other one who wasn't was not. And a study of their genetic makeup indicated that the one who was overweight and had more stress and anxiety had higher levels of cortisol in his body. And the argument was that his genetic expression had changed. Is that, does that sound right? That sounds right. And so you're like another example is the astronauts, right? The twin astronauts who went into space and when they came back there were visible physical differences between the twin who went into space and the one who stayed on the ground. And the media went crazy and said his DNA changed. His DNA never changed. The expression of it and the methylation of these certain genes did. And that's exactly what happened with the twin that was being bullied.  So maybe certain genes that would secrete more calming neurotransmitters got turned off. And so he had that heightened vigilance and that heightened response to the bullying as a compensatory mechanism. Yeah. So when people say, oh, it's my drink too much, it's in my genes or I'm overweight, it's in my genes or I'm not a natural athlete, it's in my genes or I'm just, I've got bad genes from my dad. I have high cholesterol because of my dad. Like how much of those statements are accurate and how much of those are inaccurate? I think it becomes the lifestyle that we lead. So oftentimes we tell ourselves a very good story to say, well, this is why I am the way I am. And we throw up our hands and we just surrender ourselves and we say, well, it's out of my hands, but really it's not. And I think that is the most fascinating thing that I've seen when I look at a bunch of people with genetics is you will get some people who look incredible from a genetic perspective but yet their lifestyle and the trauma that they have gone through, they are terribly overweight. They're suffering with all kinds of health conditions. And when you dig into it, you realize as the environment that they surrounded these genes in that led to these manifestations of, for example, obesity. Conversely, you also see people who don't have great genes. They're predisposed for diabetes, they're predisposed for colon cancer, various irritable bowel conditions and they are pristine. But when you look at their lifestyle, it makes sense. Mm, got it. So how do we, from a standing start, like how do we figure out how much of what's going on is our genetics and how much of it is our lifestyle? Like we're wanting to begin and go, right, let's just, in order to know where we're going, we kind of need to know where we are, right? So what's the first step? So the first step is taking an inventory of where you're at. So whether that is lab testing. And when I talk about lab testing, I'm talking about things that are not just your basic chemistry panels, but really starting to get into different nuances, like maybe insulin levels or glutathione levels or vitamin C. You have things that are going to give you an idea of where are you today? And you match that up with your genetics because now you're going to start to see, wow, I am predisposed for type two diabetes. And look at this, my insulin levels are going up, my glucose is going up. This is something I need to take action on today. In contrast, you know, for me, I don't have any markers for any autoimmune conditions. And that matches with the family history. So that's not something that I necessarily worry about, but I do have a family history of type two diabetes. So that is the one I'm focused on. I can see it in the genetics and I can see it in my lab work if I'm not taking action. So you have to take, you need to take an account of where you are today and then you match it up with what does that trajectory look like? Yeah. When you get those results back, and how do you take the test? Is it saliva, is it blood, is it? It's saliva. So it's a, actually I should have grabbed my kit, but it is just a spit sample. And so you're just going to spit in there and then send it off to the lab. They'll sequence it for you and you'll get your results back in an app. And the really cool thing is that in the app, you can actually set it for what your types of health goals are. So if it's improving your physicality, if it's weight loss, if it's overall health, and then the app will adjust the recommendations based on your genetics and what your goals are to really make that a dynamic offering for you. And where can people go to get that test? They can go to mytoolboxgenomics.com and make sure they put in the coupon code SWANWIC because we have a special discount for them in there as well. They use that code. So it's SWANWIC in the coupon. Great, mytoolboxgenomics.com, fantastic. Okay, so you're spitting in the tube, you're sending it back and then you're getting the results in the app and then you can see what foods you should eat more of, what foods you should eliminate, what time of day or what type of exercise you might do or not do, is it that kind of stuff? Is that kind of the breakdown? It is a myriad. So you've got your health, so we'll talk about the vitamin deficiencies, we'll talk about the different types of exercise, we'll talk about the diet, more carb, are you more sensitive to carbs? Do you need more protein, more sensitive to sugar? And then there's another section of genetic insights which starts looking at things like stress and pressure, environmental pressures. We can look at blood pressure, we can look at cognition, we can look at gut irritability. So it's really starting to tie the environmental exposures that we have with some of the genetic markers and then you can also get epigenetic results which will talk about immunity, biological age, memory age, hearing age and eye age. And that is really the next level of DNA testing because we may think that we're living a lifestyle that is very pro, sorry, that's anti-inflammatory but we find out that we've actually turned on genes that are promoting inflammation. So now we can actually start to measure that as well. Got it. What are some of the things that stand out that can influence our genes and the expression of our genes the most? Immediately I'm thinking things like alcohol or processed foods or sugars or sedentary lifestyle but let me just throw it over to you. What are the more common things that kind of have the biggest leverage? Microbiome, so our gut has three to five pounds of bacteria really, really powerful with changing our epigenetic expression. Toxins, that's where the alcohol absolutely is going to come into play. Diet and then circadian rhythm. Are we going to bed out of sync with what our body is really designed to do? And I think alcohol is incredibly important because there's a number of different areas that alcohol is going to deplete our nutrients. It's going to tax our liver. And a lot of times we turn to alcohol when we are feeling greater stress or greater pressure as well. But we don't realize that the alcohol is now going to be playing a role in that additional deficiency that maybe we're already genetically predisposed to as well. Got it, got it, okay. How have you and maybe changed your lifestyle in particular based on what your reading has been? And maybe any other family member or friend that you've had take the test, any anecdote or story about how they've changed it also? So I love telling the story about my 90-year-old grandmother because people will say, well, how old, at a certain point, is it too old to take the test? And I always tell the story about my grandmother. So she had chronic sinus infections for several years and my mom was convinced she was allergic to dairy. And she finally took the test and we found out she was indeed missing the genes, sorry, missing the enzymes. So she didn't have the genes, we're not making the enzymes to break down lactose. And she said, so I really cannot handle dairy. And we said, yes. And she said, because of what my genes are telling you. And I said, yes. She goes, okay. And she finally was willing to give up dairy based on that information because before then she always had an explanation as to why she had a drippy nose or why she had the chronic sinus infection. So it's never too late to start. And then for myself, I mentioned the type two diabetes. But the other thing that I found very fascinating is choline is a really, really wonderful nutrient that helps both our brain and also our liver. And a lot of people don't realize that if you are choline deficient, you're at a higher risk for non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. And that's really on the rise. And choline is the nutrient that helps with that. But if you have the gene that is not helping you make the choline from your food, you're going to, again, be at an increased risk for that. So that was really fascinating. And then just different nutrients, different understandings of how we handle stress. Am I, my husband, for example, is a slow COMT. So he tends to be a little more tunnel vision, a little more prone to anxiety and concern versus my daughter and I are not. So a lot of times our worldviews were initially in conflict until I really understood the genetic role that it was playing from a fundamental perspective for us. Let me ask you a little bit more on the alcohol. How is alcohol toxic to our brain and liver from a genetic perspective? So when we consume alcohol, we break it down. And the different enzymes that are going to be breaking it down like the acetyl aldehyde are under genetic control.  So now you're going to feel those effects a lot more. Those metabolites are not getting cleared out. And those can be incredibly damaging to the brain as well as to the liver. And you need nutrients to come in and help support the liver. You need your glutathione. You need vitamin C as an antioxidant. You need your B vitamins. And we know that alcohol depletes B vitamins terribly as well as potentially changing the gut microbiome. So when you start putting all of those things into consideration, you may be raising homocysteine levels, which is damaging to the brain and to the arteries. You may be changing your gut microbiome. So now you're not making the necessary neurotransmitters. So you can't underestimate the power of the alcohol and what it is doing, not just in the liver, but in other very important organ systems in the body. So you mentioned their vitamin C, B vitamins. What are some other things specifically for people who maybe have been drinking consistently and now they're stopped and they're kind of doing a detox. So they're now experimenting with the alcohol-free lifestyle. What are some of the supplements you're encouraging them to take? So definitely the B vitamins, especially your folate and your B6, look for an activated B6 version. Look for an activated folate. And it will say something like methylfolate or pyridoxyl 5 phosphate. So it's a longer word around the B vitamin. Glutathione is really, really wonderful for the liver. And you can easily get that through n-acetylcysteine, which is a precursor to glutathione. And then your body will convert n-acetylcysteine or NAC into glutathione for your body. And as well as really repairing the gut microbiome and your gut, because we also know that alcohol can potentially lead to leaky gut. And so you might have more food allergies as well. So tracking some of your food allergies and doing gut repair can also be incredibly helpful. Great, thank you for that. What about things like Tylenol and over-the-counter drugs, maybe like aspirin, or I mentioned Tylenol or Advil, things like that? Does that change our genetic expression? How is that impacting us? So unfortunately, a lot of these over-the-counter drugs deplete our nutrients even further. So we know that, for example, proton pump inhibitors actually increase the pH of our gut. And so now we're not absorbing our B vitamins. We know that birth control pills deplete lots and lots of our B vitamins. So for women, again, if you're drinking and you're taking birth control pills, you may be really depleting the B vitamin stores and magnesium that you have. And Tylenol is the big one. Tylenol depletes glutathione. So what ends up happening is that if you're drinking and you take glutathione because you take glutathione, that's what you need to do. And you take Tylenol. This can be a really terrible combination for your liver because the same enzymes that your body is going to use to take apart to detoxify the Tylenol is also being used to detoxify the alcohol. So a lot of people will feel like, oh, I have a hangover. I drank too much. I'm not feeling well. Do not take the Tylenol. You really want to be a lot more mindful about your alcohol consumption and support it with the B vitamins and glutathione, some activated charcoal, if you know you're going to be going out drinking. Mm-hmm. Someone said to me the other day, if it's advertised on TV, it's not good for me. And I thought that was pretty good actually because you see Tylenol advertised on TV and you see a lot of these drugs and SudaFed and cold and flu tablets and things like that. And then you kind of dig a little deeper and you realize they may indeed give you temporary relief from the cold, et cetera, but it's doing a lot of other damage. It is. And actually that's a really good point that you just brought up because I was thinking fresh fruits and vegetables are never shown on TV. It's always processed. It always comes out of a box. And we know that processed foods are really a great way to accelerate aging. And there's a new study that had just come out to speak about that. But I don't think that people realize that when you take the different medications, and again, they oftentimes serve a very specific purpose. And as a pharmacist, there's a place in time for it, but this is not something you wanna be on chronically. And if you are on any type of chronic medication, it's really a wake-up call, I think, to take a look at what's going on in your life, to see what types of deficiencies are going on, where the genetics might be playing a role because for a lot of people, when they clean up their diet, they clean up their lifestyle, especially when it's tied in conjunction with what their genetics are going to support, they get a lot of relief and a lot of symptom improvements. I don't know too many people who don't have some vanity or ego about them. And so everyone wants to look good, right? Everyone wants to look the best they can. And in particular, people wanna slow down or reverse the aging process. They did a fascinating study out of the UK some years ago that showed that people who don't sleep particularly well have 30 to 40% more visible crow's feet and wrinkles on their skin. Same with alcohol. People who drink alcohol consistently have noticeably drier skin because of course our skin is the body's largest organ and when you drink alcohol, it's a natural diuretic and it dehydrates you. Of course, that's gonna make your skin look weathered. So my question really is twofold. The first question is how do we slow down and in some cases try to reverse the aging process? I don't know how we can reverse the aging process unless we're in the movie Superman 2 where he flies around the earth backwards and kind of goes back through time. But maybe how do we slow down the aging process? So the three big ways we're gonna slow down the aging process is going to be are we supporting ourselves from a nutritional perspective? Are we getting adequate sleep and are we nourishing our microbiome? Because really when you start putting that concert together that's where you're going to get the most benefit. And I think people often say, well, there's such a great phrase. People say, I will sleep when I'm dead or I'll sleep when I get older. But what you don't realize is as you mentioned when you are not sleeping, when you have fragmented sleep, the genes expression that is getting turned on and off is going to be changed and it's going to be accelerated. And there's great studies that show even one night of fragmented sleep or staying up all night changes our glucose levels. It changes insulin sensitivity and it throws off our circadian rhythm. So now when you have done those things just for one night and think about the amount of sleep deprivation we have as a society, you can imagine how we are accelerating the aging process. So we are naturally, it's going to happen that we're going to age, but the question is how quickly do we do it? And can we slow down some of the aging genes that are getting turned on? And so those three factors that I just highlighted are really going to be the key ways to be able to slow, to decrease how much methylation really from a scientific perspective is happening at those aging genes. So just to break those three things down again for me, were you? Yes, sleep, diet, microbiome slash environment. So you're with the toxins or the type of environment we're living in. Got it. Because that's going to tax our body and our resources the most. Got it. In relation to sleep, obviously you can see I'm wearing a pair of Swanee's blue light blocking glasses that I produced from my sleep company, Swannick Sleep. And I know you wear blue light blocking glasses when and under what circumstances do you wear yours and what benefits have you got from that? So I should be wearing them at all times when I'm on the computer, but I use them at night. I also put blue light, I have a blue light blocker on my phone. I have a blue light blocker on my computer as well because the research has come out over and over again to show that the blue light, the wavelength is really damaging truly for our sleep and for it lowers melatonin levels, it raises cortisol, which is going to lead to greater fragmented sleep. It's not going to promote the deep sleep. And what I found is by making these two changes for myself using the blue light blocking glasses and then also increasing magnesium at night, specifically something like magnesium three and eight, I've been able to take my deep sleep from about 45 minutes to more like an hour and 15 hour, 20. So you and a lot of people don't realize those changes that are happening unless they're tracking it as well. So blue light blocking glasses, anything that you minimize the amount of blue light you're getting at night is absolutely key for your health. Yeah. Just to go back backtrack again on the alcohol because I know this is a particularly interesting topic for me, obviously I have a program that helps people quit alcohol. Genetically speaking, if someone is drinking, let's just say someone is not an alcoholic, but they are drinking at least a couple glasses of wine or beer or whatever their drink is per night, each night, five, six, seven times a week, couple of drinks, they're not getting drunk, but they're drinking to take the edge off each day, they're drinking to relieve them of their stress. Genetically, what do you feel is likely happening to that person? I suspect that the root cause is probably with how they're handling their stress. So people who there's a really good enzyme that you can look at called COMT and especially in the brain. So people who are a slow COMT, again, as I mentioned, they're gonna be more prone to anxiety, to worrying, versus the fast COMTs tend to break down the dopamine faster, sorry, the slow COMTs have more dopamine that sticks around. Fast COMTs break it down faster. So they are looking for more dopamine fixes and they tend to be engaging in more addictive type behaviors or extreme sports. So what ends up happening is that depending on where you are with your COMTs, depending on some of the other genes that play a role in how you perceive stress, I think a lot of people will turn to alcohol as a way to take the edge off because they can immediately feel that effect, but the question is why? Are we feeling the stress more? Are we having more fragmented sleep? So we're not feeling as relaxed. So that way, so constantly we're more quick to anger, we're more frustrated during the day, or even just not realizing the role that when we drink, we're raising our blood pressure as well. And we know that that can also have cognitive effects. So a lot of, and it's also what they grow up with. If they see their parents always winding down with a glass of wine, there's a normalization that happens with it. Instead of people really stepping back and saying, why am I doing this? And what are some other contributing factors that may be making me even more sensitive or more prone to using alcohol to bandage yourself? An irrespective of the reason why they would be drinking, whether it's societal pressure or the normalization of alcohol or marketing or their parents did it or whatever, the consumption of it on a genetic level, what impact could that be having? How is alcohol, the toxins of alcohol, how is that affecting our genetic expression? For two perspectives. So the other, as I mentioned with the, how we break down alcohol. So a slow alcohol metabolizer is, it's gonna be much more dangerous for them when they're drinking alcohol. The other aspect of it is our body, as I mentioned, makes glutathione. But we also have genes that code for the production of glutathione. So if we are not making adequate glutathione, we're not protecting our liver. And that's a really common gene that a lot of people have. It's in the GST family, it's in the glutathione transfer, S-transferase family. So now you're drinking, you don't realize you have the genes that are not helping you make enough glutathione. So you're causing greater liver damage unwittingly. And again, as you mentioned, it is these, it's more like the chronic drinks, it's not a lot, but it's happening constantly over time. Yeah, it's death by a thousand cuts. It really is. Okay, great. The website that we can get that test from again, if you would please, doctor. It's my toolbox, all spelled out genomics, G-E-N-O-M-I-C-S dot com. And don't forget to use the coupon code SWANWIC in there for your special discounts. Wonderful, well, thank you so much for sharing your expertise and your guidance with us on all things genetics and our genes. This was fascinating, particularly about my two big interests, which is sleep and alcohol. My pleasure. And I so appreciate the service that you're putting out there for people because I think people really underestimate how alcohol interferes in their life and in sleep and relationships.  Dr. Erica Gray, Chief Medical Officer of my toolbox genomics, thank you so much. Thank you so much, James. Thanks for listening to the Alcohol Free Lifestyle Podcast. I wanna load you up with some free stuff right now. So if you wanna go to jameswanwick.com slash guide, I will send you my quit alcohol guide, which has helped six figure entrepreneurs and top professionals produce or quit drinking. You can also text the word quit guide to the number 44222 if you're in the US, of course. It doesn't really work anywhere outside of the US. But if you're in the US on your mobile phone and you'd like that guide, text the word quit guide to the number 44222, or you can go to jameswanwick.com slash guide. If you'd like to schedule a free 15 minute call with one of my top coaches, just an exploratory call to see if or how we can help you, then you can go to jameswanwick.com slash schedule, or you can text the word project 90 to the number 44222 if you're listening in the US on a mobile phone. That's jameswanwick.com slash schedule, or you can text the word project 90, that's one word, project 90, to the number 44222. Feel free to send me a direct message over on my Instagram account, which is at jameswanwick. You can also watch video episodes of this podcast and a series of other educational videos on my YouTube channel, which is jameswanwickone, or you can direct message me on Facebook at jameswanwickofficial. And finally, a request. Would you please now write a short review of the podcast inside of the Apple podcast app on your phone or on iTunes on your desktop computer? Would you please give the show five stars and write a quick one or two sentence review? This will help the show get in front of even more listeners, potentially transforming someone's life. You can rate and review the show inside of your Apple podcast app on your phone or over on iTunes on your desktop. Thank you so much and I'll catch you next time.


What is it everybody Jason here for jazby's case breaks calm We just sold out 2334 hip parade basketball autograph limited edition series 11 Ten box case break ran in teams number one guys. We only had one case of this So again guys there is for the potential cell sheet hits there and again guys 30 spots everybody's around seeing the NBA Remember it's only one case so only 10 hits possible in this So here we go guys. Let's roll it Got ourselves the two into two four times one two three four Eugene down to Chad Tucker one two three four Thunder down the Wizards. All right Eugene. You have thunder Jimmy with the Bulls John with the Rockets Justin with the Kings Bennett with the Celtics Chad B with the Magic down with the Hawks Jimmy with the T-Wills Robert with the Knicks Kev with the Heat Dustin with the Jazz John with the Mavericks Joe Andresen with the Pacers Roger with the Warriors Chad Tucker with the 76ers John with the Spurs last one Joe Bennett with the Grizzlies Roger with the Nets Dennis with the Cows Bennett with the Clippers Justin with the Hornets Eric with the Palligans Mark with the Blazers Edward. You have the Raptors Jimmy with the Suns Eugene with the Pistons Lance of the Bucks Eugene with the Nuggets Nestor with the Lakers and Chad Tucker with the Washington Wizards Our USC women's basketball and Paco champions take down staffer number one Although Stafford, I think it's gonna be safe to be a number one seed in the bracket But now USC is gonna be a number one seed as well Chad I know man.  Yeah, I don't know. That's I mean, that's what I tell Aaron trendsetter Who's a big Lions guy too, you know He he he knows it like it's a little upsetting that they're gonna be super expensive But I mean that's what happens when you have great rookies, right? It's not it's not just that like, you know It's not like the true lion has our binom are Are the only ones buying them now, you know what I mean Everybody that wants to collect Jameer Gibbs, right? I mean how many people now love Jameer Gibbs as their favorite running back in the NFL, you know How many people love, you know, sound the port to the Titan one It's like now you got competition, man. So with that also brings the Prices to go up Not a bad thing, right to keep getting more eyes on the Lions, but at the end of the day, obviously I understand it probably I Mean obviously true lion collectors like yourself probably knew that this was gonna happen. Anyways, right? I mean those guys killed it this year. So what are you gonna do? You know, do you really want them to be bad rookies? No, you want them to be great for your team? But yeah, no, it was awesome it I'm gonna trade the club close the trade with the guys, but I was really on the lines to me I'm not a big Eagles guy obviously number one all the time, but I've always liked this Lions team I like the culture as well. So getting Jameer and Laporta was pretty awesome Chris Rangers and five-star Yeah, that too man. That's who GM. I mean it starts with a GM right assembly the team But I also think too, you know when your GM and coach are are are one, you know Compatible to I think it makes it that much easier. You know what I mean? Like they both know what they want and what they what they're looking for and probably trust one another as well You know if your GM don't trust your head coach vice versa, you know, there's problems like that It's never gonna work out man. Yeah, just for one case or though guys. I don't got to So good luck to everybody Obviously a lot cheaper on the price point to I think this was on the nice little sale you originally usually about a $50 ball of $50 spa, but no Think only like $39.99. So All right, here we go guys. Nice. We've got a Scotty Barnes That is a Opti graphs 22 23 Scotty Barnes So that'll be like a second year. I believe and there you go. That's where the Raptors and Edward Petty and Tyrese Maxie there you go. That's the case here right there patch autograph on car tonighty-nine Philadelphia 76 is going to Chad Tucker. So I believe that was the cell she'd hit there Alprin Singoon nice player there for the Rockets run to John and then we got a illustrious ink of Chris Mullin tonighty-nine from impeccable Golden State Warriors Going to Roger All right after this boss here. We're halfway through guys Kevin McHale for the Boston Celtics First team signatures from Panini one-and-one basketball to 99 Celtics going to Bennett. We got a Jaden Ivy. Very nice little purple rated rookie on card Detroit Pistons Pistons going to Eugene RJ Bear for the Knicks going to Robert 44 to 49 RJ B and we got a Benedict Mather and rookie autograph from Revolution Pacers Going to Joe and Driesen. I got two more hits guys and a Jaden McDaniels Patch autograph silhouette to 199 for the Timberwolves and that's going to Jimmy and the Timberwolves He's actually a really good player too Remember his he lives in the shadows of Anthony Edwards when it comes to rookies All right last box here guys come on just only one case and it's a Dwayne Wade for the heat Obsidian autographs number 12 out of 35 going to Mammy heating Kev There you go Kev on the board of the last one man And there you go everybody that was the break so again only 10 hits 30 teams so fortunately two-thirds of you guys are not going to get hits at least but Appreciate you guys still getting in guys so again only one case in stock So I said look out for some other breaks to get posted up soon guys. Thank you


Hi YouTube, Hubert doing some fun with the girls. We're at Cheque Cheese in Springfield, Ohio, and the funny thing about it is, Shea Bear's never been to Cheque Cheese, so he is having an absolute blast, so I'm going to try to catch him when he keeps coming up here and having fun, so I'll just kind of rotate the camera around a little bit, so you can kind of see where we're at, and I'm going to kind of keep it on to catch Shea Bear acting like a little boy, so let me show you what it's like around here. Here he comes with his tickets. We got the jackpot, 10,000 points on Skipping. See how many they all still put his in, so we don't have a total on his yet. 47 plus 90. Shea, it looks like you got a lot of finishing picking up her stuff.


You're listening to barbell logic brought to you by barbell logic online coaching for each week We take a systematic walk through strength training and the refining power of voluntary hardship Hello, and welcome back to the barbell logic podcast I'm your guest host of Jonathan Sullivan joined once again by Noah Hayden for our invited barbell Prescription series of barbell logic podcast. We're very pleased today to be joined by Grace deal athlete John Clawson Some of you may know about him. He's our 94 year old athlete at Grace deal and Today we're going to talk about how we train masters at Grace deal and at barbell logic Our proper approach to that particular population with a special emphasis on exercise Selection in that population once again our guest interviewer is going to be coach Noah Hayden He's a barbell logic online coach and he's my associate coach here at Grace deal Thanks for joining us Noah. Howdy, and John. Thanks for coming in today. My pleasure. All right, Noah. Take it away After talking about all of the sort of standard exercise prescriptions on the last episode We have to address that elephant in the room, which is as people age they tend to accumulate injuries and Conditions develop or advance joints get replaced mobility changes and All that stuff has to be dealt with which requires some modifications to that sort of Conventional approach and what better guest for us to have on this topic than a man who has accumulated many things in his lifetime John so John is a great example of a lifter needing not special but specific modifications for this situation individually Tailored right modifications for an athlete in the tenth decade of life. Yeah. Yeah, and he's a pretty interesting guy So yeah, that's good too. He is indeed So this is the part where we ask you to tell us about yourself John. Well, I'll talk a little bit about myself. I Was born in 1926 November 25th, so Coach is a little premature and making me 94 excuse me 93 Yeah, my insurance age is 94. So we'll go with that. Well, I was born in Omaha, Nebraska. I Grew up there went to school there When I was 18 well, I graduated from high school when I was 17 so I was able to get in a year of College at Iowa State University in Ames, Iowa before being drafted into the army in March of 1945 so and for those listeners who may not be aware there that there were some ongoing issues in 1945 that made being drafted in the army at that particular time in history Yeah, we're a world war two was still on On both fronts both in Europe and in the South Pacific But shortly I got drafted. I got a year of school in College and I went into the army for a little over a year and a half and The war ended about a couple weeks after I was drafted in Europe and we went through infantry basic training I was trained to be a infantry replacement to Bolster the armed forces in the invasion of Japan and the atomic bombs were dropped in August and That was about the time that I completed basic training. So I continued on in the army Fort Benning, Georgia for another year Infantry radio and was discharged in 46 Did you go back to college after that? Yeah, I came back to Omaha Metriculated back into Iowa State and I went three and a half years on the GI Bill Majored in general ag originally I was going to join my dad and his farm management and real estate business But I changed my mind. I wanted to utilize some artistic abilities I had so I got a degree in landscape architecture and So that went on in final year of school in At Iowa State, I got my degree Got a job in California as a planning tech mission in the San Joaquin Valley Applied for and got a scholarship to Cal Berkeley When I went back and got a master's degree in landscape architecture So here I was all set up to go into city planning and There were a few changes in my life about that time and I ended up going back to Omaha and joining my dad in his business Utilizing what education I had Both in agriculture and in landscape architecture So it turned out that I owned the business Jompy Clausen Company and We managed farms in three or four states in Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, South Dakota, Kansas little in Missouri and That went on later I sold my business and went in with a bigger company Get the same work, but didn't have the headaches of Running a business running a business pretty large business. Yeah Some of us present at this table. No, God. Yeah anyway in 1992 I retired Mary and I my late wife and I had five children and They were all gone except our youngest who was a Had physical handicaps he had cerebral palsy So the three of us decided to move to Oregon Where the temperature was a little more cooperative and for Aaron our son who used a wheelchair So we moved to Oregon Hillsborough bedroom to Portland and I lived there for 22 years Mary died nine years ago and About seven years ago, I'd say I decided that I I was 85 86 87 Time for me to get a little help and I had two daughters living in Michigan so I moved to Michigan and found a home and Retirement facility where I live now for about six and a half years Well, while I was here and now we're getting into the Restill exercise part and I was feeling like I was a little old. I was I wasn't moving well In my younger days. I did a lot of jogging. So aerobically I had taken care of myself, but otherwise the Musculature had Kind of disappeared and I felt that I needed Some strength training why strength training specifically like where did you know one one of the reasons that triggered me? I could see other people in the Independent living Facility where I lived of falls were always a danger. Sure sure and that was a critical part and and I I love living and I was The envelope a little bit there. Yeah, and I thought well, I've been blessed with a Few extra years. Let's see what we can do with it and I also like to read. So I've been reading quite a bit of Deepak Chopra. He's written about a hundred books. He's an MD who has gotten into Holistic medicine and Quantum physics and that sort of thing it interested me and part of his research and experience Was that you know older people and I'm I'm speaking about people My age at that time in the 80s They could accommodate a strenuous exercise So I started looking around and I checked with the staff at the place I was living and they looked around and they found this doctor Johnson Sullivan who was working with older adults in in weight training So we had Sully come over to our place and Make a presentation with the possibility of Setting up some kind of a facility and in our Retirement facility to accommodate our patrons there our time and what I remembered about that is like obviously that Never materialized we never really developed a facility over there at that place And so John was like well, yeah, okay, but I'm gonna do it anyway and And so he ends instead of us going to him he came to us. Oh, so they came made his presentation I've done little research and I Kind of indicated there was some studies made in Canada. I think and I Asked dr. Sullivan if he was aware of it and he was very receptive and he said yes, and he he didn't take over he let me do the lead and He of course knew all about these studies and Yeah, I said well, you maybe you'd like to see where I live and we went up took a look at my apartment About that time I can remember as we were walking out. I said, you know, I'd Like to get into the program could we set up something sure? He said let's make an appointment. So that's what we did and in about a week or two I went to the gym and That's where I lifted the broomstick and Got up out of the chair and so, you know that that kind of leaves us nicely into What we do here. So and I remember that day very very clearly because You know, you were a couple of decades older than the oldest client. I had worked with at that time I think with maybe one exception and bizarre and I remember being a little bit nervous about it and your daughter to came with you and Like so this was all under her eagle eye. I remember to came the first couple of sessions This sort of keep an eye on me and you know, make sure I didn't break you and After a couple of sessions, she's like, yeah, okay, this is fine and and she's she stopped coming after that but I remember that first session and That's what we do.  We and I was 89 at that time 89 just to set it was 2016 2016. Yeah, so we you know, we were able to ascertain Pretty quickly that you were not going to be able to do the overhead press We weren't even trying to have you do a barbell squad at first We just wanted to see whether you could sit down and stand up out of a chair under your own power I can't remember whether we had you do a kettlebell deadlift at first or not Yeah, and so we determined also very very quickly that you wouldn't be able to do a Standard bench press. Yeah, I couldn't stand up straight. I still can't right and but you also couldn't lay down flat That's right. Right. Completely horizontal. Yeah, I couldn't lay completely horizontal You got a little a little bit of kyphosis of the upper back But it was basically the same thing that we do for everybody else. So, okay He can do squats out of a chair. Yeah, I don't think he ever had to do assisted chair squats he was able to just sit in the chair and squat his way up and We very quickly determine. Okay overhead press not for you You're not gonna be able to lock the bar out over your shoulder So we had you doing curls pretty much from the start and then an inclined bench press so we elevated the bench so that you could bench press at an angle and You were able to go from kettlebell deadlifts to standard deadlifts Pretty quickly and deadlift was always your strongest exercise In fact as we'll discuss later you ended up taking the deadlift to competition Yes, and then we were able to progress you over time from Plain old standing out of a chair squats that was your squat for a while and then we were able to have you gobbled squat so we went through a phase where you were gobbled squatting and Then we had you do Barbell squats We put the straps on the barbell on a 15 pound barbell so that you could hold the bar on your back And once we got you strong enough we got you to the point where you could start with the safety bar and That's what you did going forward. You started with that with that heavy Bar weighs 70 pounds. Well, we think so Actually, there's been some questions raised about that, but that's neither here nor there. Anyway So you were able to safety bar squat and then we were able to add weight to that and I believe we've gotten you up to a 170 175 pound safety bar squat before the COVID pandemic. Yeah, I think it was around 170. Yeah, that's really fantastic. It is fantastic, especially because you know our listeners can't see him But John he's a very tall lanky guy But it's a good day when he comes in and tells me that his body weight is 200 pounds So that's pretty extraordinary for somebody in their 10th decade to be squatting 170 pounds And these are below parallel squats by the way people that mr. Klossin does knees out hip drive the whole thing the whole thing is there the only thing that's different is that he's doing it with The safety bar Because you can't hold the bar A box to yeah, but the box you never rest your weight on the box That's for measurement, right the reason we use the box in your case is because the proper reception For whatever reason just isn't there anymore. You don't know whether you're high or deep You know we had the problem of you actually going too deep for a little while and getting too relaxed in the bottom And then your very next rep you'd be like six inches high So you just didn't know where your butt was so we put this like really flimsy little box It wouldn't support his weight Especially with a bar on his back with this box in him so that he touches it and he knows he's the depth and he drives So it's a it's a box squat with safety bar, but it is below parallel and you're not resting on the box bench Press we've gotten you to Where about 90 pounds 90 pounds. Yeah, our Curls who cares what you curl? I mean it's like I think we've gotten you up to 65 pounds something like that on the Curls and those are for sets of eight We have you do those kind of like hypertrophy sets and then there's your deadlift and You've deadlifted 250 pounds in the gym. Yes, and Then John made an extraordinary journey a couple of years ago now. Is it been a couple of years or just a year? No at times going a little faster. Yeah, it's about it's about a year. Yeah. Yeah, rub it in John It was the last October. Oh, he got it in his head probably infected by Carson Loffer The you know this idea in his head that he wanted to go to a strength lifting meet and compete the deadlift he couldn't compete the press and he couldn't compete the squat, but he could compete the deadlift and so we trained for that and The independent living facility where you live Decided that they were going to make a documentary about that And I would strongly encourage anybody listening to this podcast to go and check that out It's available on Vimeo. Just go to Vimeo and search for outlifting life outlifting life with John Clausen and it is a Beautifully produced documentary. Yeah, very well done. Yeah, very well done and you will see what happened when John Clausen went to Chicago and deadlifted 235 pounds in competition.  We get to meet Erin and your daughters and learn about your life when we get to meet your friends at the independence village and I think what happens in that documentary is it shows us What it can be like yeah to be in the eighth or ninth or tenth decade of life what it can be I mean, that's what you are. You're an example of what life At the extreme of age can be and it can be pretty amazing And that's you one thing came out of that, too There is a group of us men. There are six of us all in our 90s the Mustangers and we call ourselves the Mustangs Yeah five of the men sat at one table and it was a table 51 and and four of us were world war two vets and two of us were Korean vets and So we called ourselves the Mustangs and we kind of brought them into the movie, too There are only five of us left now one of us left us here about two months ago, but Our ages range from 91 to 99 one of our parties going to be a hundred next year So that's been good and we still meet several times a week even when we're even when we were in lockdown because of the virus so your training was really on track before this whole Pandemic hit and now that the world is in lockdown and you can't really come to the Grace deal clinic anymore At least for a little while longer You won't be here on the platform with us Hopefully we'll be able to get you back in the gym here within a month or three but in the meantime you've been on lockdown and Of course, that's been a perfect excuse for you to not train. So you you haven't been training, right? Taking it easy taking it easy Well, I've been training I got some weights from one of my two of my sons-in-law and I was doing some workouts thinking I was doing pretty good and coach Sully comes up with a lockdown program which made it harder but Yeah, so I've been working out according to that program three times a week an Hour each session Monday Wednesday and Friday. I do squats. I do air squats goblet squats curls dumbbell curls and RdL's Romanian deadlifts and we've waited them. I Don't I can't use the barbell where I'm at. I don't have that kind of equipment, but I I do have dumbbells and weights and It's surprising. I Almost dislike doing those exercises when I was coming in the gym but so I know that I'm working at my limits for weights and I'm glad I'm doing them. I would Call it a maintenance program, but it's kind of a maintenance program and when you come back You know, you're not the only person that we've had on this lockdown program And what we have found consistently is the athletes who've done the lockdown program With whatever it is that they can when they come back, they're better off than the athletes who didn't You know, it Certain people have said well these lockdown programs are useless. These body weight parade. They're not useless They help us preserve the movement patterns. They help us stay in the habit of training They help us maintain some level of strength so when you come back you're not going to be doing 170 pound squats and 235 pound deadlifts, but you'll be much stronger than you were and It will take us a lot less time to get us back into something like the range where you were where you were lifting before and I couldn't be prouder of you I mean, he never misses a workout unless he's got like a doctor's appointment or something like that three times a week You know, he's there once again barbell logic has very very generously allowed us to use their platform for our in-person clients during the lockdown so John is is training and uploading his videos to true coach And we have a telephone conversation pretty much once a week every now and then we miss but pretty much once a week we check in and he's been very very dedicated very very disciplined about the whole thing and As he was just eluding like John doesn't actually I don't think he actually enjoys working out all that much, you know, he's like He's like an experienced lifter. He's like a late intermediate lifter, right? I remember once somebody I was on a panel with Jim Wendler and somebody said like what's your favorite exercise? And he's like, yeah, I've been doing this long enough.   You found us. You've done really really well here But I wonder if you wouldn't mind talking to us a little bit about the challenges Like what can we can we start with how has this? Pandemic situation. Yeah been challenging mentally and emotionally. Well, I was going to say about the Regular exercises It's it's really, you know, it's lockdown thing. This is groundhog day In the worst way, you don't know what day it is what time it is Whether it's day or night And this is an ancillary blessing to these exercises. It centers you to do those Four exercises three times a week. It centers you it kind of brings you back into reality Some structure to your day. That's the word No Structure it gives you structure And I just know that on monday wednesdays and fridays my morning Even though I only work out for an hour It occupies the full morning. I have to Get up at a certain time eat breakfast at a certain time Always eat breakfast push the protein I've quit logging my meals. I was tired of trying to figure out how many calories I was getting But I've pushed the protein as much as I can Try and hold my weight up My weight at one time before I was exercising. I was up to around 210 210 pounds And then somewhere along the line. I went into a free fall and I went down to 195 I'm back to 201 now and your coach fussed at you. Yeah, he fusses at me But no, like he's always done by like 9 30 Like by 9 30, he's his workout is done Well, I try and stay on about the same as my schedule here if everybody half your age Had that much discipline and consistency the world would be a better place You know, we we haven't talked about uh programming yet.  You do us on your board every single time So, yeah, that's pretty amazing. Well, I I think in terms of the demographic You know in your 90s You you go to that. I think the population The census in 2010 Said there was something like 2.9 million People 90 years old and older in the united states Well, that's the demographic of less than one percent of the population Now when the the idea comes to me that I would like to quit Quit the program. I think Well, hell I've got Four years invested in this already and I haven't missed It would be sacrilegious to quit now So I've got a new gold coach. I hate to Bring it on me all of a sudden in public Because you're gonna force me to do it But I I'd like to go to 100 and be able to deadlift 200 pounds at 100 years old Why only 200? Well No, you're yeah, yeah, you're in this you're in this for the long haul and you know, we've talked a little bit about this before You know the mortality curves as we get older Once you're past 50 your mortality rises steadily From decade to decade in other words your chance of dying rises steadily from decade to decade Until you get to be about 80 85 and then it levels off, right?    I don't mean like, you know People magazine or something like that. There was uh that book of philosophy that you were reading by that one Jesuit scholar that you're reading that I still want to get my hands on Yeah, I'm just brought it today, but I want to review it before I give it to yeah so he's always reading something and he's always reading something that's Kind of challenging like not lightweight material like he doesn't read harlequin romances, you know, he's so you are engaged in every dimension of your existence you're engaged with family and friends And you're constantly trying to learn more about the world and about yourself You're engaged physically you're engaged with your nutrition and all of your recovery variables You are the very essence of an athlete of aging like that's you that's who you are And so I think when I look at somebody like you and you tell me maybe sort of half joking I want to do a 200 pound deadlift when I'm a hundred is not a joke I mean, I think there's a pretty darn good chance that that's yeah And the reason I didn't want to say anything you were already questioned me on the 200 pounds Yeah, I don't I think 200 pounds. I think you're even like it when I set a limit I think you're aiming low I think you're aiming low and you knew I was I was going to say that so again I want to get back a little bit though because you're in a unique demographic you face unique challenges So What are those? Well, I tell you the 70s You're still young The 80s you get along just fine, but the 90s well, they're tough and Not everybody has an opportunity to see how tough they are but There are there are limitations. I've got a touch of Parkinson's and I've got some neuropathy my fingers are numb and It's hard for me to tie my shoes sometimes but I can still lift weights and I think probably I think you said it once the squad is the Queen of the exercises and as long as I can Squat down and pick up stuff off the floor that that's where my strength is It isn't where the muscles show of it. It's it's that muscle chain through your whole body that's that's Making you able to go day by day Absolutely true on the other hand, you know, he wears a short sleeve shirt when he works out and I see his videos three times a week And because you know, he doesn't have a facility to bench there So before we were having curls once a week and bench once a week now his upper body stuff is all curls And he's starting to get a little jacked.  Yeah, so I had to you you're a question on Yeah, I mean so what I'm hearing from you is that there's sort of a qualitative difference between the 10th decade and the 9th decade Absolutely, you nailed it. Yeah so But it didn't stop you and you know, and we have had to overcome some challenges We had a little bit of an issue with an unexplained tachycardia That had to be investigated And I had a right a right knee and a left shoulder problem Right and we have to work around those And then it was a few years ago when I started to notice that you had That pill rolling tremor Yeah, and we got you investigated for that and it turns out you have a touch of Parkinson's It doesn't seem to be particularly progressive though, which is good and we've worked pretty closely I think with your physicians over time And uh, we've been pretty blessed that they're on board. Yeah, they all They all like it when I come in they bring the The young students in because I uh do my medicine and uh u of m And uh, it's a teaching facility So they like the the docs like to bring in the younger ones to see me and uh I show off for them. Yeah, I mentioned they get in year full. Yeah. Yeah So john if someone else your age isn't happy with their level of independence What advice would you give them? Well, it's depending on Nobody's come up and saying I want to follow the program You're on I don't proselyte but uh Everybody knows they made a movie about uh my competition And uh, I've heard a lot of stories where people talk about their parents And how they use me as an example of someone that can do some difficult things and that and that's what I want I I didn't know how to Explain what I was doing to others and I figured well, I'll just do it myself and see how things work out and uh, there have been opportunities to publicize it And uh, it's not for me It's for everybody and they can see an example of someone that can do this I'm sure there's 90 year old people that around the world that are Doing stuff like this, but I'm not reading about them. Not a lot of them. Yeah, not many You know, I'm sitting here thinking, you know, there's nothing that can change the simple fact that, you know, you're A pretty inspirational figure and you know, I know for a fact that you have inspired a lot of people And you know, we've had people come to us and say, yeah, I saw that and like I feel like I'm out of excuses now Right. So and we we made our own documentary about you a few years ago And then independence village made this much more highly produced Documentary and we've actually written you up as a case report and our approach to your programming and so on And I think that you are an inspirational figure and you are an extraordinary figure And I think what we're all working towards is a world where you wouldn't be Right where you wouldn't be so extraordinary and where you wouldn't be nice It wouldn't be that unusual for somebody your age to be under the bar And using that particular form of exercise medicine to hang on to their muscle and their bone and their function And their independence But for now, you know, we don't live in that world. And I think that this is a big part of your legacy. You're sort of a A pioneer for this approach to healthy aging I would hope that would happen and the one thing you have to watch out for just Let your ego get out of the way and just do the program and things will fall into place I think we're writing an upward curve. You got to write sully I think this is happening and it'll be more a common place In 10 years, it'll be pretty common place and we just have to break down the barriers to Implementing programs like this some something look forward to 10 years from now. We'll do another podcast with you We'll talk about your 260 pound deadlift And uh, and how far we've we've come I won't make any comments on that What's I gotta tell you Well once he finished the set Or maybe it was a prowler john pushes the prowler and um Walks back to his chair and sits down and says this is elder abuse And then he got up and did his next problem right, but you know, the the prowler is necessary I don't like it, but It's a way to bolster your aerobics and your uh, uh, stamina stamina. Absolutely. I have a stamina problem And uh, join the club.  Yeah, those yeah Yeah, your first your first couple of prowler pushes or you've pushed the new prowler, haven't you? Yeah. Yeah I like it. It's much better. Yeah, but it's a little heavier. It definitely is It's a it's a little heavier dynamics are a little different. You can get down at it better You'll probably be the The last person to come back to clinic because of your demographic and not so much even because of your demographic But because of the demographic of those around you We're at pains to make sure that this environment is actually Absolutely safe for you and for those that you come into contact with on a daily basis, but you will be coming back And you know, I've told you this before but you are very Very sorely missed here. It is I appreciate that and I've missed coming to the gym the clinic now. We call it Yeah, but uh and bizarre it is just Not the same without you around. Well, she's been my training partner since day one And uh, I think she uh, she and I are Probably two of your better attendees to oh, yeah, never misses never misses. Yeah You are not the truants We have we have one or two truants, but not many really. I'm not many not many No, it's been a great thing for my life. I've been doing enough for Going on four and a half years and I can't imagine how the time has gone by that I keep coming back each time It's been great It's been great for us too and it's it's a program that I I want to see expand and it is I think we're on the way And uh, there'll be more 90 year olds coming into this. Yeah, but you were the pioneer Well, you are a great example, john I remember the first time that I met you you stood up and introduced yourself you shook my hand And instantly I felt it was obvious how present you were In the moment and you don't always feel that from even people my age It was striking a little bit to be frank and I think a lot of people feel that from you I know that you don't proselytize What you're doing is such a great thing to every person that that you pass But I think your example is all the uh all the proselytizing that anyone needs an evangelist by example It speaks for example that yeah, exactly it speaks for itself. You speak for yourself just The way you are and Noah's right like anybody who's ever been around you like you are utterly present Which is the best kind of message, you know, well, I'm glad to get that feedback because That's What I intended all along. I didn't quite know I you take it day by day you live in the present and that movie being made you was uh Nothing that I envisioned at all it it just came about but it does Certainly disseminates the information that I want to do at 93 years old your You know one of the most vibrantly alive people I've ever known and And now you're strong too Go get him. Thanks So, uh, wow, I don't know how to do any better than that. Yeah, John Klosson You are missed. You are valued and you are very special Thank you so much for coming in today to talk to us and to our audience great being here with you guys We'll be back soon. Noah. Thanks a lot. Yep And thank you all for listening to this special barbell logic series on the barbell prescription our Guest today has been John Klosson And I've been joined by my associate Noah Hayden Barbell logic and professional barbell coach and I hope you'll join us next time When what are we talking about next time? We're talking about Programming for masters with our guest Laura Welcher. So please join us then until then this is barbell logic signing See you


Okay. Good morning. Welcome. Hi, Francis. Hello, everyone online and what's happening? Hi, Nikhil. Hi, Sri Rada. Hi, Anand. How are the assignments going? Pretty hectic, I hear. Church history, huh? Nice, nice. Well, I hope you all are doing well. Christian history or church history? So, Rin is not sure of the assignment? I'm not studying. Okay. Alright, let's come back to the local church. Yeah, so we finished chapter four last class. It talks from your notes, House of God, chapter four. We'll just do a quick review of it. We did two case studies of two different churches. One is the Jerusalem Church and the Antioch Church, how they grew, and we looked at the different stages of growth from the pioneering stage to administrative stage, pastoral equipping stage and apostolic function stage, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, so all of the stages, I think for you, if you yourself as leaders, are kind of important just to remember these stages. It is very easy just to look at it as information from a course that you studied, which Roshan taught and forget about it. But I think, especially this subject and most of the subjects in the college is very practical. It's not necessarily academically standard when it comes to theological studies. But so because this is practical, I just want to emphasize it just to remember them. I'm sure it will come in handy when you go back home and I'm sure you will be reviewing all of these later on as well. Okay, let's move on to chapter five. Chapter five is titled, What makes a strong local church? What makes a strong local church? Okay, so it's a question for us. So what according to you? What do you think makes a strong local church? Sure. Alright guys, one at a time. Slowly, slowly. Okay, so who wants to? Okay, you said something first. It depends on the pastor. It depends on the pastor. Strong leadership and fellowship. Strong leadership and fellowship makes a strong local church. It depends on the pastor. If the pastor is strong physically, spiritually, mentally. And the doctrine what they are following. Okay, what makes a strong, okay. I think you ought to write these points down because those are your answers, you know, and some good ones. So what makes a strong local church? Yeah, feel free to post online on chat section as well if you want to. Or you can unmute and speak as well. Okay, yeah, Francis. The unity of the congregation. The? The unity of the congregation. The relationship between pastor and... The relationship between the pastor and the congregation. That's awesome. Yeah, it makes a strong local church. Okay, it talks about unity. So wonderful point. Make a note of it. Make a note of your own point. Anybody else? Yeah, come on. Nina, what do you think, Sri Radha? What do you think? What makes a strong local church? You can add more to the points that you've given. Also their faith. Whose faith? Their faith. The people's faith and the pastor's faith, if they have a strong faith or not. Okay, people's faith. How much they are actually following what's being taught? The word. Right, okay. Okay, so much of doing is actually happening versus... Okay, just listening. Okay, a praying church says Nina. Shiv Kumar says spirit-filled leader and church members. Wow, okay. Anything else, Nina? What makes a strong local church? Spirit-filled, yeah. Shiv Kumar just said. As well, yeah. Spirit-filled, okay. Cooperation. Okay. So let's go from the beginning. So you said pastor depends on the pastor, doctrine, unity and fellowship, praying church. Okay, so all of this, some amazing points can have some points.   I want my church to be spirit-filled. You're right on the board, right? You know, goal board or whatever. And then you can ask us, okay, so how are we going to attain that, right? How are we going to attain that? How are we going to have a faith-filled congregation, as you said? So these are not just one points. These are like, it could be a header. And then under that, you can have your mission and, you know, and whatnot. So yeah, all of it's, I don't see why we have to continue doing this chapter. But because you've already mentioned all the points that's in the chapter. But yeah, guys, you're awesome. You know, talk about leaders. You're there. Okay. A devotion to the apostles teaching. Word breaking of the bread fellowship and prayer. Yes. Word has to be preached and taught without compromise. Okay. Word has to be preached and taught without compromise. They're such powerful and insightful points, guys. And I say this again, so please make a note of your own points or of all the points that was mentioned, because all of this is going to come in handy later on when you decide to just flip the page in your notes and seriously, I wrote this, you know, but good. So in this chapter, we look at one of the points that when we look at what makes a strong local church, the first thing that's mentioned is a church where there is a strong leadership with a God given vision. Okay. A strong leadership depends on the stats from the pastor. Yes. There's so much pressure on the pastors, guys. Okay. Or leaders. All of you are leaders, right? So a church where there is a strong leadership with a God given vision. Okay. So before we get into strong leadership, vision. Give me your definition of vision. The power of your vision is what? 0.25. Go ahead. Go ahead. Use the mic, please. Yeah. Vision is like where the pastor with this God given vision, like where might where the where you're going to lead the people shepherding, like they want to take from the level one to high, I mean, it's a higher level of worshiping God and knowing the word. Okay. Okay. Thank you. A picture of the future. A picture of the future. Wow. Rhyming poetry. Blast from the past. Picture from the future. Having a goal or mission for life. Having a goal or mission for life. Having a goal or a mission for life. Vision is mission for life. Vision is? Mission for life. Okay. What is the difference? You brought this on yourself. Okay. What is the difference between a vision and a mission? It's like certain tasks to be done. Sorry, what's that? One task to be done or like what? Vision or mission? Mission. Mission is a certain task to be done. Okay. Like when there is one, especially in taking for example of wars and all like they have, this is our mission. We have to go there and do it. Okay. That's the mission. A vision. Having many missions maybe or one certain mission for whole. A vision is to have many missions. Or having one certain constant one. Goal. Goal? Okay. Okay. It's confirmation like what we are going to do. If not, then we should ask how are we going to use this? That is like a confirmation of our future time. All that is wonderful. But what's the difference between vision and mission? Yeah. So vision is the ultimate thing. That's what like you say you want to go from step one to step 10. The vision is you want to go to step 10. Right. That's the end goal. Right. The end game. But the mission is what are you going to do to get there? That those are missions. And so as you said, if you want to, the vision is to keep having more missions than it's like epic. What's my next mission? My next mission is the next mission. Get to the next vision. What is your definition of vision? Let's come back to that. And why is vision important? Vision means it's actually different for everyone. So it may be the guidance of God that where he wants to lead us in our life. So certain people have different, I mean, it varies from person to person. Okay. So it is one of the God's guidance or God's desired position to be. Where he wants you to be. Right. Great. Thank you. Anybody else? Vision? Francis? I think it doesn't have to be like a perfect definition. Just what is your understanding of a vision? Okay. So tell me what happens when you don't have a vision? Sorry? We don't know what we are going to do. You don't know what you're going to do? Okay. Don't look like we don't have any doubts. Always have doubts? Okay.  Constantly. Consistently. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That happens to me also. He's like, oh, Lord, what my next season going to look like? I don't know. But yeah, vision I think is very essential, isn't it? And this is not just biblical. From the corporate world, it's universal that every institution or organization or corporation will have this mission statement or a vision statement. Isn't it? Yeah. We stand for this. We stand for that. Go to any hospital. They will just not have the name of the hospital. Under the hospital, they'll have something else. Touching lives, touching million lives, saving lives, blah, blah, blah, all that. So having a vision gives you a certain purpose or aim in life on how you can get there, isn't it? So it's like, it's a very cliche example. Forgive me for using this, but like Google Maps. Most of the, sometimes Google Maps is very irritating. Right. It takes you in certain roads, which is possible. But what you do, the first thing what you do is you are here. You want to go there, isn't it? So you put in the location. You have to, isn't it? So you are envisioning where you have to go or where you want to go. So you basically having a vision simply tells you where you want to go or where you have to go. Right. And then you will have on the way to get there. Okay. You know, like just like Google Maps, you can say, you can go this option one. You take a left, similar as EPA that, you know, estimated time of arrival. You can take this route, you know, and so having a vision and being open minded about God's leading is very essential. So the way to that vision, God may say, okay, let's just take a detour, you know, et cetera. So, so all of that is kind of very essential. So let's look at Proverbs chapter 29 verse 18. Proverbs chapter 29 verse 18. Where there is no revelation that people cast off restraint, but happy is he who keeps the law. Can you read that again, please? Where there is no revelation that people cast off restraint, but happy is he who keeps the law. Yeah. Thank you. Which translation version is that? So NKJV. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So without revelation, right? With God's revelation, people cast off restraint. Yes. We says where there is no prophetic vision. Right. See how it's interesting choice of words, revelation, prophetic vision. So hearing from God is what it's been prophetic, isn't it? And God, okay, Lord, what do you want me to do? Why are you calling me for this ministry? So it's very interesting. It says without a revelation or a prophetic vision or a word from God, the people cast off restraint. What does that mean? Casting of restraint. What is cast off restraint? Does anybody have a message version you want to look at? If you can. Let's see what cast off restraint. Okay. People can't see what God is doing. People can't see. If people can't see what God is doing, they stumble all over themselves. If people can't see what God is doing, they stumble all over themselves. That means the casting of restraint. Restraint is what? It's something is resisting you. Right? Something is kind of telling you to go in a certain direction. Right?   Wherever you want to go. One of the perfect definitions of vision, I remember is that when having no vision, it's like running on a treadmill. Has anybody run on a treadmill? No. Yeah. So you're running. A lot of things are happening, but you're in the same place. So without vision, it's kind of very similar. You're doing a lot of things as a ministry, as an organization. You can do a lot of things. If there is no vision, it's like simply running on a treadmill. There's a lot of things happening, but you're just there. Can someone read Habakkuk chapter 2, verse 2? Then the Lord said to me, write my answers plainly on tablets so that a runner can carry the correct message to others. Yeah. Thank you. The Lord answered me and he's saying, write the vision. So there's another important verse. He doesn't just say have a vision, but write it down. Make it plain. That means make it simple, make it understandable or communicate it. Make it plain on tablets. That means write it on the stone, basically. That's what tablets is not iPad. So he may run. Who reads it? So you see the choice of words there. You have a vision. Write it down. Communicate it. So those who are doing or running have a direction on which site to run or where to go. Again, not just running wherever you want to run. Okay, so it's very easy. Matthew 1514 says, it talks about blind leading the blind. Can a blind lead the blind? Answer? Can a blind lead the blind? No. I mean, it talks about it's using the tangible to explain the intangible. That means it's using the blind. They're using the language of the site. You can have site and still not have vision. That would do very different things. Okay, you can have site but not have vision. So here in this example, in this verse, Matthew 1514 says, and if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch. It's simply saying, a person without a vision, leading a bunch of people, it's dangerous, so to speak. How many of you have seen, I'm sure there are, I haven't seen a lot of doctors who are blind. A lot of doctors who are blind. I'm sure there are. They might be. I'm not saying never, but I haven't encountered. I would be very nervous if I know that a blind doctor is doing a surgery on me. I'm like, yeah. So where's my hand right now? I don't want you cutting in the wrong places. It's quite a risky thing, isn't it? So I think one of the first things that we need to establish as leaders is when you especially, it's a very good place to be in when you don't know what to do next because you don't know what to do next. It's a good place to be in because that tells you that you need a vision. It's beautiful to be in that place. It's like, Lord, I don't know what to do next because you are 100% hopefully dependent on God. If he doesn't come through, it's as simple as that. Moses kind of understood that in so many ways. He's like, yeah, promised land is there. It's all good. I'm not interested in the angels, but if you don't come, I'm not going to go. So I might want to do this, this, this, X, Y, and Z, but if you don't tell me where to go, I'm not going to do anything. So in addition to a vision, that is in addition, so you need to have vision without a doubt. So in addition to a clear vision from God, we also need strong leadership. We also need super strong leadership, strong leadership. Okay, so come on, define strong leadership. What are the leadership qualities that you like to see in a leader? Who sets an example? Who sets an example? Okay. Customized. A godly character. A godly character. Wait, wait. Write down those points. Okay. These are your classmates. Okay, so a strong leadership is the one who sets example. Godly character. Okay. Humility. Humility. Okay, a leader who is humble. This is, again, just don't give me an answer for this. I want it to be an answer which you like to see in a leader. Okay. So don't just say, okay, oh, these are the leaders I've read. John Maxwell's 24 leadership, blah, blah, blah. So what are the qualities that you like to see in a leader? Leaders should apply himself after he should teach. Okay. So being an example. Yeah, thanks, Nikhil. Who is from the front, Shivakumar says. Sorry. Who can handle everything? Who can handle everything? So that's the quality that you like to see in a leader. Okay. A leader should be hearing from the Lord and should be able to deliver. Oh, yeah. A leader should be able to hear from the Lord. Okay. That's awesome. Yeah. Okay. He sets an example. Okay. Those online. Prabhu is saying one who leads by example. Wow. It's come like three, four times now. He leads by example. So, yeah, go ahead. You say. Who is responsible. Who's responsible. And a good listener. And a good listener who's responsible. So these are qualities that you like to see. Okay. Who's responsible. Define responsible. Like if the leader is given a task, the leader does it well and puts his full effort into it. Very nice. Okay. Yeah. The question says leader has to preach what they practice and be, I think you meant the other way around. Okay. And be fully convinced in the faith and word of God and be led by the spirit. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Should be a good steward of the things trusted with. To be a good steward with the things responsible. Okay. And accountable. That's what stewardship is. Yeah. Accountability. Yeah. How many of you have encountered bad leadership? How many of you have experienced or encountered bad leadership or general anywhere, wherever it doesn't have to be spiritual or church at all. Right. Okay. So what was one of the things about that long leadership that bothered you? I'm not talking about a person. I'm talking about the expression of that leadership that did not help you. Partiality. Okay. Double standards. Partiality. Yeah. Okay. So write this down as well. Okay. Things that you don't like to see in a leader. Okay. You experienced it. Yes.  It's like having that this is what I told. This is have to be done. I don't want to take suggestions of what you're telling me. Okay. So he's not a good listener. He or she. Leader. Okay. To nosy. Who you talking about, right? Okay. All right. Anything? Ratha. Sorry. Sreela. I thought you had something to say. Huh. What the leader is saying instructing to other people what he first he need to do. I was the the who is following him. They will get on. The misunderstanding. They will get on. Reconnection. No. They lost their connection with the leader. He's doing like this. Okay. Okay. We should redo that type of. Okay. Gossiping. Emotional. Emotional. Emotional. Yeah. Okay. We're all emotional beings. What's wrong about being emotional? I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Specific. I'd say over emotional. Okay. Emotional. Okay. That's not good enough. Yeah. Over emotional. Yeah. Yeah. Not emotional. Yeah. Okay. That's not good enough. Yeah. Over emotional. Yeah. Yeah. Not. Not being able to endure the difficult situation when it comes just bursting out and shout on the. Not being able to handle a situation. Tough situation. Control situation. Okay. Okay. Jack says aggressive and manipulative. Wow. Okay. Manipulative. Yeah. Aggressive and manipulative. Wow. I hope you've made a note of all these points that you've given. And yeah. All of these. Yeah. But qualities that you've kind of experienced it. Yeah. For me, I think one of the important qualities that I look for in a leader is. Sure. Example in all of that goes without saying. But some there's something about. Handling people well. If you can handle people well, or if you know how to handle people well, if you don't know how to handle people well, that means for me, it's. It's one of the qualities of not being a very strong leader because you're leading people at the end of the day. Isn't it? So how well are you able to relate to them? Are they able to relate to you? It's not just you to them. It's about how they look at you. It's also very important, isn't it? And so if I'm speaking to an audience, it's very important for me to know that are they viewing? Are they looking at me as a pastor or as a teacher or as a friend or as their brother? Whatever it is, right? And so depending on how they view at me, I can connect to them at their level. What I'm saying is so I think it's super important and I've learned. So I watched a lot of football, English football and all the interviews about the football managers and the team. And I like to do a lot of study leadership studies on all of that is it all comes down to man management. That's the word, right? Man management. That's very corporate man management. We are not managing. We are leading, you know, but there's a difference. Yeah. So I mean, everybody's not a perfect work. We're all working towards becoming better in all of these areas that you mentioned. So yeah, all of that is other great definitions of being a strong leadership. All of this is an addition to the vision. Now you can have all of this good qualities of a leader and without a vision is absolutely useless. Right. And so a good, a strong leadership like Nina mentioned, right? It's being able to hear from the Lord.  So Moses kind of grew into a leadership role. Like, you know, so God gives him the vision. He says, go to Egypt, bring my people back. He was Moses. I don't know how God has amazing patients. You know, you read the chapter. Why me? Why should I go? Why me? Why should I go? I can't speak. I can't stand someone else. So like, yeah, it's not a good leader. I want confidence in a leader. You know, so, but God is amazing. He sees, you know, he has a vision of who Moses can be. And so he pushes, isn't it? So that's the beauty of our Lord. And I think it's a very important character of a good leader will have is that he sees the potential in what you can be. Right. And you work with that person until you can get that person there. Isn't it? And so that's vision and strong leadership is essential to say the least. There are a couple of scriptures mentioned in your notes. You can make a note of it. Zechariah chapter 13 verse seven and Isaiah chapter nine verse 16. Isaiah chapter nine verse 16. Okay. Well, quite a bit of time on this point because it is important. We're still in the topic that talks about what makes a strong local church. Okay. You might be a pastor one day soon leading a church, or you might be a leader in a church. Okay. It's okay. It's fine. No pressure. Nobody is forcing you to become pastor. It's okay. But all of you are already leaders. Right.  Pleasure. Right. In Zechariah 13 seven, it says, we can read the scripture later, but in just what it simply says is if the shepherd fails, the sheep are scattered. Right. If the shepherd fails, the sheep are scattered. That means if the sheep cannot hear the voice of the shepherd, they have no direction. So they go. There's no restraint. They begin to go everywhere. Isn't it? And so they begin to do whatever they want to do. They'll panic. Again, I am sorry to keep using this example from Exodus is when Moses was away with God in the mountains for all the right reasons for 40 days and 40 nights for them. The shepherd is not there. Is in the leader. And so they cast off their restraints. They began to do whatever they wanted to do. Isn't it? Yeah. So there's a wonderful video and maybe when we speak about some 23 eventually, when I was doing a study on some 23, I found this beautiful video on YouTube. I talk.  The sheepers like all over the, they are grazing on the field, beautiful green grass field. They're trying to call make different sounds. The sheep don't respond. The shepherd comes and he starts calling them. He just makes weird sounds. You know, everyone start running towards this one man's voice because I mean that example from John chapter 10 that my sheep hear me and know my voice is so beautifully portrayed in that video. And yeah. And that's what Zachariah 13 seven is talking about. So without vision, without strong leadership, a lot of things can go wrong. Okay. Any thoughts or any questions so far? Are you following with me? Okay. Oh, yeah, I have the video. I'll share it. I'll share. It's a shepherd video, right? Just to be clear. Yeah. Okay. Anything else guys? Any thoughts that you want to share? Questions. Okay. On the side note, last year, earlier last year, pastor did pastor, did CDs on leadership called the four C's of leadership. Go back and revisit those. It's very helpful. I'm sure it'll be very helpful. One more other thing, pastor, like, see, I've actually saw some people like this. So when this pastor is leading one church, the, I mean, his son, his coming after him and leading his church. So is that okay to just continue to his dad's vision? I mean, I'm not, I'm not agreeing with that. I should have our own vision, but, but God is using them very greatly, like following his father's vision. What about that? What's your thought on that? Yeah. I can't speak for others. This is like nepotism in the Christian industry. So, see, I think if the person who's taking over the mantle from the, if a son is taking over the mantle of son or a daughter, whoever is taking over the mantle from the father or the mother, if the person does not have a burden or a vision, it will not last long. You can try to manufacture or, you know, with your own strength, but eventually you will, you'll become very tired and the growth will stop. It'll become stagnant. Why? Because there is no vision. There's no burden personally, right? But then if that person chooses to seek the Lord, and we see that in the Bible as well, Aaron and sons of Aaron were in priests, right? It was all there. Sometimes it's just a responsibility. But I think in this day and age, it has to come down to the burden. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Because that's what I think. See, I come from a family of people who are involved in ministry. My uncle has a church and, you know, we all know the pressure of what we call, you know, what PK is, right? You know what a PK is? Yeah, pastors kids. It's a universal language, by the way.  So, the pressure on a pastor's kid is huge because everybody is looking at him, like, hey, look at this pastor's kid, see how he is. And most of the time, the kid, because of that pressure, they break, right? Because, see, living a Christian life as is challenging. It is challenging. And then living with the responsibility and the burden on the weight on a young shoulder with certain expectation is not fair. I would say that. But it is what it is. Isn't it? So, yeah. Okay. Nina, you wanted to say something? Okay, cool. How about you guys online? All of you okay with following? Okay, one other bad quality Nina has mentioned is not consistent. And I think not being consistent in, it could be in so many different factors in what they say, what they do, you know, if they're not consistent. Yeah, I think consistency is such a beautiful point. It's discipline talks about discipline. Isn't it being consistent? Yeah, and yeah, being on time isn't. Yeah, our seasons are consistent. At least for so far, so long it was consistent. If summer comes late, what will happen to the world? Our seasons are consistent, isn't it? Winter, if winter comes late, we all start talking about it. Isn't it? So, what we're talking about the month of August last month is for the first time in 100 years in Bangalore, it hasn't rained in the month of August. You know, this is like a sudden inconsistency and everybody starts talking about it and the global warming weather and all of that. So, yeah, consistency is a good thing. Yeah, we can talk about it more. Actually, you know what will stop you because the next section has quite a lot to go. So, I don't want to just take five minutes. We'll stop here, we'll come back and we'll resume. All right, take care.


I've been incarcerated for 40 years for severe drug addiction. I've been considered black in terms of life and well. And one of the things that incorporated this problem was I was hanging out with you. So I thought I was going to get a look at my work history, working data and justice. Things that are very abusive, they're healthy for me. And so I made a decision to go back to school. So I went to make a lady and I was a woman in a hospital and told her exactly where I came from, my background, and the history of how I was facing her. To put it simply enough, she helped me guide me through all of that. It was an experience that, you know, I always cherish, that keeps trying to get her, you know, help me achieve the goals I always set. And my experience is, you check it out, I honestly hope it. And you know, good things will happen and good things will happen.