I think we're just waiting for Lauren and Jeremy if they can join, that would give us quorum. Right, Michael? Yes, I think that is correct. But maybe in the meantime, can we just give Ella, like, update on where things stand with the sign-on? Would you be pleased to, and just stop me when everybody, when the quorum is here or whatever. We are either at 94, 95, I think we're 95 as of last night. And interestingly, somebody at a meeting last night said they heard that Waybridge had adopted a declaration, which would be really, really great because they would have done that on their own. We have not been in touch with them and that's really wonderful when communities decide on their own that they are going to move forward. So I've got to check that out this morning so that would make an additional one. But as I said, we're at 94, 95, 96, I'm not sure which. Jamaica adopted that meeting that we participated in on Monday night and that was after a bit of an interesting struggle as such. But it was a good struggle. They had an anti-hate statement, very, very strong anti-hate statement, which derived out of some issues that they had in Jamaica. And they wanted that to stand as a declaration of inclusion and we've certainly supported the anti-hate statement. It was very, very strong but felt that that was not a welcoming statement that the declaration of inclusion is. And so we worked with them to try to combine them to make an even stronger statement. And that came through, I think. The thought process was good. The level of community participation was good and it just felt good when it finally got done on Monday night. And so we're moving towards a goal of 100 by May and it looks like that's reachable. Like next week. Yeah. That could be next week, but we, operationally we set a goal internally of 105 so that we could ensure that we'd be motivated to get to 100. So that's kind of where we are. You might have heard that two communities had voted, which had voted rescinded. And for two different reasons, or three or four different reasons, we're not sure we understand. We don't know or even if they understand why they rescinded, but our feeling was that they probably weren't enthusiastic about adopting in the first place. And they found a reason to get out after some voices were expressed. Those being Highgate, which you probably read about in the newspaper more recently, Huberton, which is down here. So we've not been in contact with them because they have not responded to our offer to talk with them, to dialogue and see where we come out. So we just kind of let those go and move on to more welcoming, if you will, communities to spread the word. And when we get to 100, we'll be sending out a congratulatory letter and imploring those communities to move more aggressively or take the next step, you know, in terms of adoption of implementation. We're trying to get the governor to speak out more forcefully about inclusion week and about inclusion. And so folks are working on that. So we'll see what happens. We suspect he will reissue the declaration, the proclamation rather, but we want him to be more visibly vocal on this issue. So we'll see what happens. So that's kind of an overview. Thanks so much. Yeah, I think, you know, following all this stuff and continuing to talk about it. You know, I don't think anything's changed since the last time you were on, which is or maybe more solidified of we're going to be introducing the language or with the new city council, because there is just like so much change over with the city council. And so when you're like full understanding and opt in and operationalizing, like really wanting to start off strong with the new city council with this. And so the dates that we're looking at are March 22nd. Is that city council meeting? And then if for whatever reason, I can't get it on to that agenda. It would be the next one, which would be April 5th. So still plenty of time before the week. But also we we probably will be after 100 for sure. Yeah. All right, well, we're not going to hold out for you, but but we're just we'll just move and say our target was was 100 and whatever it is. We're I know I'm going to get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll leave it there. It's great. Great. Let's get 250. Right. Yeah, I don't know what the targets are. You know, what we really want to do is kind of stop that not stop fully. Obviously, you don't want to lose the momentum, but I evaluate where we are and see what communities are doing because it's one step to adopt. It's another step to to begin to to to live the the declaration. As such, and it's kind of pointless to have, you know, 246 towns say, yeah, we adopted and then nothing happens after that. So we kind of want to go back and say, OK, what have you done? You know, since since you adopted and see what that looks like. And then as we continue to move towards, you know, whatever the next target is another, you know, 25 and six months or 15, you know, whatever. Yeah. So do you need me in this meeting? Do you need more from me? Or I'd be pleased to stay if I can contribute. I looked at your decorate. I think it's I think what you're going forward with certainly aligns itself very strongly with with whatever what other towns are doing and more. And you've obviously thought very thoroughly and seriously through this. You the committee is is doing some really, really fine work and we congratulate you. So I think it is well, I think I think we we know our next steps and just a matter of getting it before the city council. Well, let us know what you have marked it down March 22nd and and in April 5th. So let me know and we'll be at your next meeting. Just kind of, you know, sitting in the corner, seeing what what goes on. How's that sound? Sounds great. OK, thanks so much. Follow me. I'll give you updates as they come about. So, you know, what the latest is both the good and hopefully no bad. But we'll give you the state of the state of play in Vermont. OK. Awesome. OK, guys. Have a good week. Yeah, you too. Yeah. All right, you too. Well, Jeremy and Michael and I were sharing before this trend was like, how has it been two weeks already? Again, what is happening? What is how does this keep happening to us and that we didn't have like the minute circulated and and the agenda was just like other business, um, but I think let me pull it up here again. Um, I think to just check in on was like no American voter outreach. Checking in on the Elks Club project and then talking about recruitment and updating the committee application process. Is that right? Or is there other things that we should talk about on this agenda? Just pulling up document. It seems like those are the things review application and offer. Oh, yeah, yeah. OK, maybe real quick for the Elks Club project is that I just got invited yesterday to meet with Josh at one o'clock, one to one thirty today. If that time works for anyone else, too, I can invite you right now to that calendar.  Not available. Mike, what is it that you're talking about? No country club engagement. So of like, you know, how a community engagement, you know, those are the proposals I put forward before just checking in on it. So, yeah, I can send it out to the whole list, too, just in case someone wants to join. Well, yes, I'll I'm not sure where I'll be. But if you send the you just certainly at the link it's a zoom meeting. Is that right? Yeah. OK, so if I'm available, I will attend. Not sure.  I'm going to be away from the twenty fourth of February through March 10th. So I think I miss at least one meeting. I'll miss one meeting. Where will you be? New Zealand. Oh, my gosh. Take me with you. Well, I just learned the last night that New Zealand, all of New Zealand is under a state of emergency because a cyclone hit up on the north north part of the North Island. Oh, my gosh. It's done nationwide damage. So I'm not sure where I'll where I will be. But plan is that I'll be in New Zealand. I had no idea. I hadn't seen that at all. Well, I had a good friend of mine in Chicago sent me a word about it. And I said, oh, goodness, there goes the whole trip. We'll see. Me and I hope we get some place warm, regardless. Since you're talking about calendars, I also will be out of town for our March 1st meeting. And that's also when Michael will be on. So let's just go ahead and cancel that. That makes sense, right? Because they'll be much less likely to have a quorum. And what day was that to cancel? March 1st, right? Because Michael and Jeremy will be out. And then I'll be on the next. And then Carol, we just got an update from Al on the on the on the. Declaration of inclusion. Declaration of inclusion. Thank you for the words come to me. Um, and. And then we're just setting the agenda of and recognize that at one, one o'clock, one to one 30 today, I'm going to be checking in with Josh about the country club road project. That's the earliest we could meet. And so I also invited Michael. But are you available or would you be interested? Should I invite you here real quick too? If you're muted. Yeah, sorry. So one o'clock today. There's something going on already, but. OK, no worries. Yeah, so I mean, what that it's, it's a. Volunteer appreciation for the the senior center of volunteers. So I kind of wanted to show up for that for a little bit. But so the meeting is on Zoom with Josh. Yeah, don't don't. I think that's fine. Yeah, if you can't, if you have something else going on, don't worry about it. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I potentially could do both. So I could show up, you know, for the volunteer thing for a little bit and then join the meeting if that would be helpful. I'll invite you, but I think don't. Yeah, don't stress. Yeah, I was wanting to. That's a 130 is you said one to one 30. Oh, one to one one. Yeah. OK. And so then the only other thing on our agenda was to check out about like recruitment and the committee application process. Do we want to go ahead and. And do do that right now today? Or yeah, what's the kind of what's the process that we should any any thoughts on process for that besides pulling up a sharing screen? Well, I'll note that I had assigned myself a task, which I did not complete. And that was doing it at first. No, that was to write, try and get some kind of a boilerplate like call to recruitment for the committee. So that is still something I need. I would I can do. I will do. Awesome. That we can use to send around. Thank you.  I clicked the wrong button. Sorry.  Here we go. Or someone can feed me to it. And I'll just take notes in an email that I can send. So for the committee application, the notes that I had here before are education versus experience, wanting to make sure we can get demographic questions, language options and having open ended questions. And then we review the application and offer some comments. So can everyone does everyone see the community application or should I would it be helpful to share my screen? I don't see it, but so is that an application that's used for every committee for the city? It's the same one. OK. And we're just making recommendations for changes to it for everyone. Right. Yeah. And it's in the chat. Carol, I just like. OK. But if that doesn't work, I just got it. Thanks. And so maybe first, like for the demographic questions, the way that it is now is it's after you submit it, there is then a link that you can click to enter in a survey. And so. Just noting that, I think, is all. Oh, and because we wanted to get the. Link to four site buttons and note about statements in it. So are we proposing that we even remove education as something that's on there? That would be my suggestion, because I think I think that, you know, for I mean, just thinking about the people that we work with, if we were really trying to attract those folks, we would just take that off altogether because, you know, I think that people would feel like that was a barrier. Taking which off? Education. Oh, what I was wondering, Carol, on that is. What if we kind of refrained what we're asking for and actually move it to the end? So I'm wondering, it could be useful if somebody feels they have a certain education or credential or whatever that kind of informs how they would participate in a particular committee. I mean, that could be useful to know, perhaps. So deemphasize it, kind of make sure it's lower on the list of priorities, change the language a bit to be more as an optional kind of request. Yeah, I like that idea because and saying something like, and are there other things that you want to include that you think would be helpful for us to know? And then in parentheses, education, no, whatever. Skills, specific skills, that kind of thing. Yeah, I did that. Yeah, because right now it's just a lot, too. Yeah, it's only filled out once. But like it took me, I was like very stressed writing it and because I was applying for two, I think as I shared this, I was like, I applied for the rest of the committee and the and this committee at the same time. And it was it was a lot. Yeah, I would. Cation, professional activities, community activities and why are you interested in serving and what talents, experience and any other comments. And I was like, I think we can probably schmooch those more together, right? Yeah, and reorder. I mean, I would almost lead with the why are you interested in serving on this board or committee? Like that's people are here because they feel they feel a sense of like, I want to be a part of this. Let's let's get them hooked on writing about that first. And then ask the other kinds of things we might want to know. Then it's totally asset based, you know, and and recognizing their assets and letting them off for what they think is important. Do you want to propose some language, Jeremy, for like what the questions would be? Can we do that? Yeah. Sorry to put you on the spot. The one question I have is, are you registered? Are you a registered voter in the city of Montpelier? Yeah. For first of all, it's not required, as I understand it, to be. You have to be a voter or a resident. Yeah. Not. No, you don't, actually. Neither. You don't have to be a resident here. Right. But it's a star. It's a star here is a required answer. Right. It's required that you do answer it. But do we just want to move that into the demographic questions afterwards and collect that demographic information? Well, my question is, why do we have to ask the question at all if it's not a requirement of the city council? And I'm not sure about age, if there's an age requirement. That's a good question if we wanted because we've often talked about maybe high school age. Well, and we have someone running the city council who's a senior in high school right now. So. But it may serve as a staff, you might have to be 18 or older or something like as a but like, yeah, definitely not. For a volunteer committee position, right? Well, yeah, I mean, if if that's not required, a requirement set by the city, why do we ask? Why are we asking it in this application? I think it would be nice to get more members of our community involved, but I don't know that. We need to ask that question. Any other toggle questions before words, nothing, the actual questions like that the very end, it's like, I think there's a couple of like trying to get conflict of interest disclosure. So it's like, are you involved in any personal, professional or business pursuits that would affect your ability to make fair and impartial recommendations? And it's like, there's only a box to disclose if it's yes, obvious. I mean, not obviously, but. What what's on the demographic survey? That's what I'm trying to get now, because the I remembered when Cameron did it. I thought she had said it was when you submit, like the email or like the next page that came up was a link to the voluntary demographic survey. And I just hit it and I'm just getting submission confirmation, the city of my pillar and committee application has been successfully submitted. Thank you for your interest in serving, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. For more information, please contact city manager's office or email Jay Granfeld. So that's outdated. So update that information. Oopsies. And I haven't gotten an email with anything other than that either, too. Ellie, if you're there, do you know where that demographic information is getting collected or going to? Sorry, I am. Oh, you're on the phone. So I've got tech support on the phone. So I'm trying to do a couple of different things at once. And I totally. So I actually have a note to update that form. And I don't know where the demographic pieces are, but we can certainly connect with Mary Smith, who is the new Jamie and see what that is for you. That seems like a problem. Yeah. And include the like. Application for. Definitely timely, though. We do have a committee chair meeting next Wednesday just to kind of like go over process and like our application isn't up to date. Well, yeah, that's something for sure. So I actually have a meeting later this week that I'll know and work on trying to get that squared away. Great. I can email you these. Yes. These notes that we're taking right away. Yeah, that sounds awesome. Thank you very much. Um, so wording for these, I'm like, please answer each question as much detail as possible. And I'm always like, please don't write as much detail as possible. You know, like, please provide relevant information. Well, we have relevant information. Please use bullet points. Yeah, I'm just doing a little writing over here to work on the questions. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. And I'm going to see if I can find that. That's a graphic survey questions. I remember being a lot of conversations about like, how are we grouping race and how are we like, what kinds of questions are we asking for? Like, there were a lot. There was a lot that we. But you can't ask directly about race. It's not that's that's how we figured this all out was that it was you submit the application and then it takes you to saying, oh, like, please, like we're we're we're trying to evaluate how we're doing it, like reaching out to folks a month, you know. And so if you want to volunteer to click this link, then you can do that. That's like a separate form. It's like not connected. And that seems to have gone missing. But it was it was not connected. And we were asking about race. Engender to and like and income. Mm hmm. I've got the polko survey. Oh, my goodness. I'm sorry, guys, I'm still. All right, I'm going to paste. And draft in the chat for this is just for the question portion. Or the the open comment question. And just for the record, I'm not finding my. Notes about the. Demographic survey, so who knows, maybe I dreamed it. I think that seems great. That's so simple and much better. What do you think about a character limit? I mean, to be brief can be helpful if you're reviewing a lot of these. I don't know if that's the case, but helps people be specifically a little more focused, perhaps in their writing. I feel like for grant applications, it's so hard because, you know, when there's like a super short limit, you're like, I'm trying to share all this cool stuff about my like, it's some exercise and writing. I don't feel super, I feel both ways, I guess. I have two questions. And the first is, are there job descriptions? There must be job descriptions for each committee online somewhere. I'm assuming that's on the website, which I think in the intro should point to that, you know, that read the job description or, you know, to make sure that they are answering the questions so that they're related to the committee they want to buy for. And then what's is there an interview process or do they just show up for they show up for their so they get assigned before they even have a conversation with anybody about serving? I mean, before I even give people an application, right, you could say it, you could say in the preface to the questions that candidates are encouraged to have a conversation with a current committee member, chair or member. So that and then I guess also say, you know, they can find it. That information is available at the on the city website so that they know where to go to, you know, who to look to locate people. I mean, I'm bringing that up because of the recent issue with the Arts Commission thing and. You know, it might not have gotten as far as that person even applying. I think he's he probably still would have. But, you know, from my perspective, that even though we have people who apply and we bring them on and then they get kind of paired to a panel, we have, you know, I do an intake with everybody who wants to be a volunteer before I even give them an application because we're looking for an appropriate fit and then even, you know, when you join the team, like, I think there should be just a kind of a team building period, right? Like, I think that that's really important. Yeah, I agree. I've served on some committee. I didn't know exactly what I was getting into and I think that's really important in terms of what what expertise, in fact, do you bring to the committee and how much time does that represent what kind of commitment are you making? So I think there needs to be more in the preface. It's also like, you know, taking on a new volunteer job, right? Like, it's like taking on a job. So is it going to be a good fit? Which is exactly what happened with the Arts Commission. Like, you know, that didn't seem like it was going to be a good fit. So I think that's important for the success of the team as well.  Yeah, I think I'm feeling a little torn about this because I think yeah, and see, Jack, we've also, we had someone join who was not the right fit to use that language.  And I feel like the language of like who is a right, like the, and even like the intention around like who is the right fit for a committee is like baked in like who belongs in Montpelier questions, you know, and like end of like who, who's making decisions on behalf of the city and just really wanting to, I think I would much rather err on the side of having these tensions and having the wrong people on committees and people feel like they can't apply or like feel like they have to go through an interview process or be kind of evaluated before being appointed to a volunteer committee role, you know, like, yeah, I think I would, I would much rather like be more turnover than people not feel welcome to apply. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you. I. Yeah, that's why I think like the orientation and the, you know, creating some group norms, I think is important. And I say that because of like a board that I serve on in my community and, you know, a couple of people were some appointments to fill a couple of open positions, and it was not going well. I mean, it was really causing a lot of harm to to our library board. So, well, I will say that this committee itself had a very rocky start because people were sort of applying, getting accepted, and then coming to one or two meetings and moving off. Yeah, it really took a long time to get to get really settled.  I mean, I think it's important to get information, but sort of figuring out what's the dynamics of the of a committee, you know, maybe somebody who wants to get on a committee to take it down. And because for one reason or another, it's good to know that because that's a perspective that, you know, once you're once you're entrenched in a committee, you don't want to see it just taken apart. But on the other hand, we need I don't think it's it's useful or all that helpful to have dissenting voices even in a committee. And, you know, sometimes maybe it's really just like more of an orientation so that they fully understand what they're getting into. I absolutely agree with that. And that, well, you and I went through that, Carol. And, and, you know, how much of a commitment is a person willing to make to this and really knowing what the commitment what the commitment is. Right. And I do agree that that is very important because you don't want someone getting on the committee and then just, you know, not coming or deciding, oh, I don't have anything to contribute to this or I'm not interested really. It just it's a waste of everybody's time and energy and good feeling to. But I think we have to be careful about shutting down dissent. We don't really understand and and might but might find useful. Well, in the application, does this does this committee make recommendations to the city council based on the so they just do it on their own? No answer committee is to yeah, people applying can get appointed without ever anyone on the committee knowing like there's no like, hey, this person applied, do you want to show up to the next committee meeting to, to, you know, connect with them or whatever. So we collaborative approach. I mean, I can I can understand it. I mean, we're all volunteers. I'm looking at you, Shane, as the chair, like to put more work on you to kind of be an employer in terms of evaluating people. Meeting with folks, you know, it's a lot to ask of, you know, I think a volunteer group, but I'm wondering, do we do we want to add a statement in the preface about encouraging people to reach out to a current committee member or chair just for information purposes and figure out how to make that clear what the information is that to do that. Yeah, I think if we all go ahead, go ahead. I mean, yeah, I think I think that makes sense. And I think, I think there's a difference between encouraging people to reach out to learn more about what the commitment and the committee is about is different than asking for like an evaluation process. And I think I'm more concerned about that, not from the time time perspective, but from a like distributing power perspective, right? And like, who are the committee chairs now? And like, why are we doing this whole process and who do we want? That does it like, you know, how do we want to move power in the committee chairs? And so like that feels really important that it's not right, that it's it's, you know, pending, pending more work to be done about like the intentions of distributing power and like kind of evaluating candidates for committees. I think it's more like the city council should just be making the decisions about who should be going on committees. And then and then when they when they join, they should that be like everyone should be like equally or equitably trained up and and supported for success in the committees. That's a lot of words to say, like a very simple thing of like, we're all racist. And like, let's just make sure we're not like putting that lens on our review process as much as we can. Yeah. I'm I think this is a good conversation. I would love to hear from Lauren about this, just to see what council is kind of thinking about when they have to review these applications. And I'm just curious, like, what information she feels is useful for a council when they're reviewing. Because maybe it helps us even cut a little bit more out, or maybe we're we're condensing things that they wouldn't want condensed. So I think this is this is a good like first pass. And I would love to hear from Lauren. Yeah. So just to clarify, these questions, these these one, two, three, five questions, all that you want that you were thinking would go on the application other than name, address, contact information, things like that. Oh, I hadn't. I did not take a look at the kind of yes, no questions. This is just the long, the long answer questions that I was. Yeah. Interesting. Let's see. I think other than I think the first three of the of the yes, no questions are irrelevant. But are you related to any city counsellor? I'm not sure. Is there a problem about conflict of interest that that question is getting at? I mean, I mean, why are any of these why are any of these yes, no questions here now? Right. Move the question of relation down to the the conflict of intersection. Is that what you're suggesting? Other comments and well, there is one there's one more. Are you involved in any personal professional business that and you could put that there? If those are disqualifiers, I think that that's important to to make clear that you know, the nepotism question is always is always something that has to be addressed one way or another. And I suppose if you were have pending litigation against the city, I don't know how the city could, you know, if someone says yes, for example, as we had recently and wants to be on a committee, can you legitimately disqualify somebody on that reason? And that's that's so should it be there at all then? Is that a question for any of the city's legal? I would think so. Berman, I think it's something certainly to be checked with the legal department. You know, which of these questions, you know, are is relevant and and legal? What was that? What in legal? I want to want to ensure they are great. I mean, I will say that by making all the questions open ended, it does exactly what Shane is concerned about, you know, puts a burden on the applicant to spend a lot of time thinking about that. But it's good. It's that these questions, I think, are more important to know than yes, no questions. Let me share this draft here real quick. Um, just a demographic survey and to. The has put that in the chat. Oh, and the spacing didn't work out. Sorry. A little block of text there.   My wife, Nancy, was on the city council and I was serving on at least two boards at that time. I wasn't disqualified because she was a council member, right? And our city clerk is married to a city councilor. So, you know, yeah, I would think that's not a question worth. Well, I mean, sure, maybe you want to know that, but. Well, being clear about why I'm not sure that you even need to you even need to know that because the rules about recusing are you basically self-recused. And it's a conflict, that's a conflict of interest question, right? Well, right, they're all conflict of interest questions. But if it's like, it's not a conflict of interest to serve because it's like noting that it's because we have a self-recusal policy. OK, yeah, about keeping pending litigation and keeping are you involved in any pursuit that would affect your ability to make fair and impartial recommendations, right? Am I capturing that, right? I think keep those. That's what I'm offering, but I'm up for any discussion. That's why I think we need to have a legal department. Look at that question about any pending litigation, whether that is this quality, it's pending, right? It's not as if the litigation has been resolved against you, but. I think we have to be careful about that, given recent history. Sure.  Well, it would be good to know that that's for sure. Yeah, yeah. I'm on the the question, the question of whether or not the the question named the city city board or committee, if applying for more than one, I I would prefer that if you're applying for more than one at this at at one time, that you submit separate applications for each one. I feel like that's maybe a question for a city council. Like, yeah, is that what they would prefer? OK, OK. You would hope to be answering, you know, specific to what committee they're applying for. So that's why that's why I made that comment. Yeah. Well, that's my I applied for restroom committee and see Jack in the same application. So it was very, very different expertise that I was bringing for some of us. Yeah. Um, OK, question for city council, do we want to have would we want to request? So I'm going to have to go. We just left because we have a meeting at nine for leadership. So. Great notes and see you the next time. Oh, we have any other questions for city council. I'm sorry, we all have to hop in just a second here, too. Thank you so much, Carol. Yeah, see you soon. Have a good day. We want to separate applications for each committee. I think that's easier on the committee and it's easier on the applicant. Yeah. Yeah. And it's easier on the council to actually. Yeah. But I think I think it's the idea of passing this by Lauren before we get too far down the road. It's a good idea. We want to ask Lauren about the. Um, yeah, I'll just put that in here. Um, do we. All right, I'm going to share a block of text in the chat once again. Here we go. Thank you guys. Oh. It is really a lot. Um, one, one thing to relieve the pressure on, on the just, just committee chairs. It could be or. Committee chair or member. I mean, I think. Yeah, I'll just put that in here.  I mean, I think. I'm sorry. Can you, can you say that again? I'm, I can find it. Um, Second question. Okay. If we encourage applicants to reach out to city. Um, and should that be. Or members. I think it, yeah. Yep. Great. Otherwise you, otherwise you'd be getting all the inquiries. And then you'd be flooded with so many people wanting to join. Especially because you have, you have so many other commitments. I mean, I think we need to sort of, we need to at least offer the possibility of sharing that. That responsibility of talking with people who are interested in. So that's a small point, but what else. Oh my God. And the questions didn't make it in. Oh my God.  Okay. I'm also wondering. Okay. If we want to make. Paper versions of this available. Somewhere. Yes. I don't know if they already are, but. And we're talking about translation. We could put them on our, our, um. What is it the way? Why do you want to make paper versions of this? I guess I just got lost in my own thinking here. So I'm, I'm wondering. You know, it's increasingly less likely, but if folks. Are having difficulty with computer based applications, online applications. We could have a note about, you can find a paper copy of this application at the city clerk's office or whatever. And that there's good and obvious buttons for translation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This can be filled out in currently they can be filled out. A pencil and paper. Right now. Okay. They can't. Yes. You can just download it. I think. Oh yeah. Yeah. But you have to download it and print it off. Yeah. Right.  Yeah. I'm just. If we wanted to make those copies available. In city hall, we can put a note about that too. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This was, this was actually great for not being prepared at all. Here we go. All right. See you all in a few weeks. Bye. Bye.


Hello everyone. Welcome to another International Relations Capsule for the Shankar IAS Academy. Today we are going to discuss the recent elections in Turkey. This was an important election because the present president Erdogan, I think we have to note the pronunciation. Even though it is written as Erdogan, it is pronounced in Turkish as Erdogan it seems. I don't know if I'm correct, but the Turkish pronunciation one has to learn. So he is in Turkish, he is Recep Tayyip Erdogan, that is the name. But in English of course everybody writes it as Erdogan. So this is his third term and unexpectedly he ran into difficulties in the early voting. It was believed that he would win the election and he has been in power for the last 20 years, a long time as Prime Minister and this is the third time as president. So he's an important international figure and his election was considered important, particularly because he was in some difficulties on account of various things. First of all, his own economic policies were not very much acceptable to the people and there was an earthquake where about 50,000 people died and the way he handled it was not fully appreciated by the people. And probably this is for these reasons that he did not win the election in the first round. So he had to then go to what is called a runoff election, but in the runoff voting he won with a big majority. In fact, he got 52% of the votes. So this was being watched by the entire international community because Turkey is an important country, but his own ways, he's increasingly non-democratic in certain ways and his policies were not widely appreciated. And also, he, even though he is a member of NATO, but he has had his special positions on various issues. So what happened was, in fact, today the President of the United States congratulated Edouan and immediately he raised an issue. Both of them had two issues to talk about. Edouan said, what happened to my F-16 aircraft? He has been trying to buy F-16 aircraft under the NATO arrangements from Turkey and that is being delayed. He's very much irritated by that. So the first thing he asked the President of the United States was that, how about my F-16 aircraft? But in reply, the President, though he was not negative about it, but he said, how about the membership of Sweden in NATO? So this is an issue and immediately, as soon as he was elected, both these were projected. And the briefing from the White House indicated that there were these two interlinked issues. So unless Turkey agrees to the membership of Sweden, it looks as though the United States will not be willing to provide F-16 to Turkey. So it's a live kind of debate. And both of them agree to discuss this further. So obviously, you can see some kind of tension there. But the fact that he has been elected now is a reality. And now he will be President for five years, that is 2028. And that will make about 30 years as top authority in Turkey. And so his influence is very great. And Turkish location between Asia and Europe, its religious situation. It was a secular state, but Erdogan has increasingly made it an Islamic state. He has developed links with some Islamic countries. So all these have made Erdogan a kind of valuable partner of NATO. At the same time, a bit of a problem, because he has a view which is slightly different from other NATO countries. And in the war also, the Russia-Ukraine war, he has been taking some kind of an influence position rather than supporting Ukraine entirely. So he has had exchanges with President Putin and he has been in consultation with him. So in other words, his victory is, of course, inevitable in spite of the problems that he had. He got a good majority. And despite the ongoing economic crisis and the criticism about its response to the earthquake, he has won a successful, won an acceptable majority. So he has already become the longest serving leader in the Turkish Republic, because he will be president till 2028. One thing that has caused problems for him is unorthodox fiscal policies, a depressing interest and rampant inflation, and that has affected the people. But still, he got a 50% of the runoff elections. And it obviously, it looks that the people are looking for stability over change, because some of them are not, they may have wanted to have some change in policies, et cetera. But nobody else could have provided the kind of stability that the country needs at this time. So the people seem to have preferred stability to change. And therefore, in spite of the problems, he has been able to come back to power with a comfortable majority. So he never shied away from using government funds for his personal advancement. And he was quite unorthodox in his approach to the financial situation of the country. And very in many cases, his government spent on various infrastructure development, et cetera, which the people did not appreciate. They thought he was trying to be too lavish with infrastructure development. But he also increased wages of the people and pensions to also increased. So on the whole, he has been balancing it well. On the one hand, he has these problems with some people. But at the same time, he mixes up some kind of a dictatorship with welfare. So that was the combination that he has been following. And that is why he has been able to stay in power in spite of his difference of opinion with nature. But his position in the nature is important. And that is why Sweden has not been able to become a member of NATO so far. Finland has already been admitted. And it is only Turkey and Hungary who seem to be opposing this. So that's an important aspect at this time because when NATO countries are created as against the original commitment given not to bring in many of these countries into NATO. But the present situation now, the United States is openly supporting expansion of the NATO. That is causing greater confusion in the Ukraine, Russia-Ukraine conflict. So the industrial sector, the military industrial sector in the has been developing in Turkey at a very impressive pace. And this development has been a point of pride for Turkey. And this is considered as part of the strength of the country. They have developed a very impressive military industrial complex. And that is why they want to strengthen more, acquire more planes and more lethal weapons, etc. Because Turkey is following a rather independent policy and it would like to project a kind of power in Europe itself. Because in Europe itself, Turkey is not a major country. But since it's a member of NATO, basically an Islamic country, all this adds some flavor to the advance presidency. And she is also very proud of frequently used and domestically produced drones, which has been added to the fleet, military fleet of Turkey. And that is a matter of pride for him. And he's also been a significant player on the world stage. He is always in the news. There was a coup attempt against him and was felt that he would fall. But he was able to manage very effectively. And in spite of the seriousness of the crisis, he was able to overcome it and continue as president. And that also has added a certain amount of pride and strength to him. So on the world stage, he has been very active in dealing with international issues. He has tried to develop his own Islamic group, which was not very successful. In NATO, it controls the second largest army. So it's not a small power inside NATO. And so he's considered as an indispensable, but at the same time, troublesome NATO ally, that is his stature. So NATO deals with him carefully, cautiously. And his election is impressive win, even on a run up election, has impressed everyone. And people will be keen to watch his movements in the future. So he has held up Sweden's, as I mentioned, entry into NATO and purchased a Russian missile system. I think it is like the ones that we have purchased as there's 400 missiles. And the United States does not like people to buy the missile system from Russia. And the United States was at one time threatening to veto it in some form. But in the case of Turkey, it was even more difficult because Turkey is part of NATO. So the United States would not like the Russian missile to be inducted into the NATO system in Turkey. So in fact, in the case of India, it is not there is an independent purchase that we have made. And therefore, they seem to have accepted it, even though there are some difficulties because of the current war. But in the case of Turkey, the United States was even more difficult about the missiles. So on top of it, Turkey is now out to get a US-led fighter project. And so they have been excluded from that fighter project because he has bought a Russian missile system. So one of the things that he did during the Russia-Ukraine War was to negotiate a deal with the support of the United Nations to assume shipping grain through the bulk seaports in Ukraine. Because Ukraine has been supplying grain to much of the world. And it was held up and it was creating confusion not only in the markets abroad, but also within Ukraine itself. So it was a necessity to get these grains out and he managed to do that. So and also involved with the United Nations. And that has been a success story and there was basically a good contribution that he made to the crisis in Ukraine on the count of the lack of ability to export grains. So he has been playing a very effective role in some issues relating to the war. And also he is now acceptable as a kind of mediator because he's not on one side very strongly, even though he's a NATO member. And therefore he has some flexibility in acting. But he has deep loyalty from conservative and religious supporters. And that is his strength. First is military strength, which is impressive. And at the same time conservative and religious supporters. And he has been following a very conservative policy with regard to the social norms in that country. So though on the one hand he's been, you know, helping himself with power and also enjoying the facilities that is available to the head of state. He has very strongly supported religious sentiments. And also he has tried to build religious and Islamic linkages with like Turkey and Iran and Pakistan and so on. So this is the kind of role that he plays on women and the issue of wearing of headscarves in schools and offices etc. He has changed the rules in the sense that they are not compulsory and it has been left to the people concerned. And same is the case with trans gender rules and regulations. He has been very strict about it. And like in other parts of Europe where people are liberal about lesbians and gays etc. Their behavior in society. So here he is very conservative about it. And that has pleased a large number of people in his own country. One other thing he did which created waves around the world was the conversion of the famous Istanbul's cathedral, Kegia Sofia into a mosque after many years. So it was a museum for decades and he very strongly intervened and turned it into a mosque. And this was this created a lot of reactions around the world but he has not conceded that. And so it is not a museum anymore. It is a serving mosque. And as I mentioned also this question of the LG, the lesbian and gay movement. And because he considers that a threat to the traditional family loyalties etc. So there again he has a position slightly different from other countries in Europe. And his taken total control of the media. And that is not even a pretense of free speech. And generally it's also believed that even though elections went through the normal procedures, normally certification is that, you know, this determination is made normally whether an election is free and fair. So but the assessment made by the observers is that elections were free but not fair in the sense that he seems to have manipulated voting situation or counting various things. So it is not a clean sheet that he has been given says that it is a free election but not fair. Of course the opposition leader was quite strong and he had opposed the president's economic policies and he stressed the importance of democracy in Turkey. But it had its supporters and but at the same time he was able to win the elections. And on human rights his record is not particularly good because he has been oppressing and suppressing any kind of difference of opinion. And also in fighting terrorism he has been very active and he has been dealing with what he considers terrorism in means of the people or his government has been very tough. So on the trappings of democracy he is not doing very well but he is able to sustain a different policy all through because of one hand his firmness dealing with the issues. On the other hand the kind of popularity that he has been able to win as a result of his support to the conservatives in the country. So these are the significant developments and on his foreign policy he has declared that the foreign policy of Turkey is to make friends not enemies. So in the sense that he is willing to adjust and accept diversity in the NATO or in other bodies and he still continues to have good relations with its neighbors and other countries. The traditional difference and problems between Turkey and Greece everyone has been able to make a contribution. He visited Greece and Cyprus issue still remains and Turkey is not in favor of Cyprus as yet and there is a proposal for division of Cyprus etc. This issue is as old as the United Nations itself and still there are difficulties in that but still he visited Greece and tried to bring about some understanding. Because the poor attempt I mentioned in 2016 and he declared a state of emergency which still seems to be in existence and he has tried to bring about further agreements among the people and the very fact that he survived the quiet and was a contribute or was a tribute to his leadership. So and he has fought against you know the dissidents and on the whole he has been a successful president. There is a question about it. He may not fit into the norms that are generally acceptable in a democracy and a secular state which it was but he has been able to hold his position with this diversity and that has been his success. In the Ukraine-Russia conflict he has always acted as a kind of peacemaker and he has that strength because he is in NATO and at the same time he is not completely critical or condemnatory about this. So this is the background of the elections and once he takes over we will see more developments in this area but generally it is believed that his presidency will provide some stability to a country. He may be able to resolve the economic problems and also resolve the issue of Sweden's membership of NATO and all these will be once he has settled down as president for the third term which is expected that he will do business with the United States and others and that is what we saw in this telephone poll yesterday when both of them raised the basic issues in the first congratulatory conversation itself and so they are very keen to get each other understand each other's point of view. So on the whole this is a better result than a new person coming into power and that would have created very many difficulties not only for Turkey but also NATO. So they say you know a kind of non-devil is better than a non-angel they say. So it is that kind of way that the people have accepted him and voted for him and so on the whole I think it is a good development from the perspective of Europe and the present conflict situation because as far as the Korean War is concerned there is no Indian site as not even in a ceasefire and NATO is not interested in a ceasefire because they feel that if there is a ceasefire that will enable Putin's forces to regroup themselves and maybe fight a more harsh war. So there there is no hope as of now but the expectation still holds that the G-20 meeting in September the summit might throw some new light on this issue but as of now the matter is completely out of control and there are accusations that Ukraine has been using drones against Russia that's been considered a very serious matter although it is not established that they were the ones who launched those drones. So a slight improvement, a slight ray of hope in the situation in Turkey is what I would call Mr. Duane's election. Thank you very much.


Live from Barcelona, Spain. It's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. Hi everybody, welcome back to Barcelona. This is Cisco Live. And I'm Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman. And you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise. Dr. Thomas Shearer is here. He's the chief architect of Talindus Luxembourg. And David Cope is back. He's the senior director of marketing development for the Cisco cloud platform and solutions group. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE. Thank you. Thanks for having us. So you're very welcome. So Talindus, tell us about Talindus. So Talindus, we are actually an integrator, a cloud operator and a technical company.  And lately we are moving also into the public cloud. We have private cloud offering, but we see a first appetite coming up with our customers in the public cloud, which are heavily regulated industries. And there we are working notably with a team of Dave to have an offering there that enables them to move into the cloud. So these guys are a customer or a partner? Well, you know what's special about them. They're actually both. So they're a big customer of Cisco offerings, cloud center and other offerings, the Cisco container platform, but they also use those to provide services to their customers. Exactly. So they're a great sounding board about what the market needs and how our products are working. Yeah, so Thomas, Talindus has been around since, if I saw right, 1979. So we weren't talking multi-cloud back then, but it is a big discussion point here at the show. You said private, public, you're using cloud center. Maybe explain to us what multi-cloud means to you and your customers today. I would say most customers that we have are large organizations. We manage the IT infrastructure. We are also doing integration projects, but those customers, they are normally not really technology companies. You know, they are searching to work with us because we deal with a good part of their IT operations. So at these companies, they come from a private infrastructure. They have their, these days, their VMware installation, their private clouds. And I think also it will stay like this for a good amount of time. So there's no good reason to just go into the cloud because it's fancy or because there's something that you cannot have, certainly there is, but that's a stable progress that they are following. So what we need is actually to catch the low-hanging fruits that exist in the public cloud for our customers. But in such a way that it satisfies their day-to-day IT operations. And sometimes it's our IT operations who is doing that since we are managing this. So for us, actually the hybrid cloud, to say it short, is actually the standard. So multi-cloud. So I wonder, we're almost two years into GDPR, one year into the owner's fines.  GDPR is for me not the main reason for public, private, multi-cloud installations for us. And that involves GDPR is the regulation that we are in. So our customers are notably from the financial sector and they're very strict on conservative security rules for good because their main business is they are selling trust. There is not much more business where you trust that much than a bank. They know everything about you and that's something they cannot sacrifice. Now in Europe, we have the advantage that there is that strict regulation which puts kind of standouts. And that involves obviously also the GDPR thing. But if I look into that standard that regulation imposes and it's very technical. They say for example, please make sure if you move into the clouds, then avoid a lock-in. Be confident on what will be your exit cost, what will be your transition cost and don't get married to anyone. And that's where Dave's team comes into the game because they provide that solution actually. That's music to your ears, I would think. I mean, that's to be honest, if I were a public cloud provider, I'd say, no, don't do multi-cloud. We have one cloud, it does it all, but no customer speaks like that. No, you're right. And I think to me what I love about to lend us in the way they use the product is they work in such a highly regulated environment where policies, managing common policies across very different environments becomes critical. So how do I manage access control and security profiles and placement policies all across very different multi-cloud environments? That's hard and that's been one of the cornerstones that we've focused on in cloud center. Yeah, so let's double click on that because we were talking to a guest earlier and I was asking them, sort of poking at, there's a lot of people who want that business because it's a huge business opportunity and some big well-established companies. Cisco's coming at it from a position of strength which is, of course, the network. But I'll ask you the same question. What gives you confidence that Cisco is in the best position for customers to earn the right to manage their multi-cloud data and environment? No, I think it's a great question. I mean, from my perspective, I actually love our customer's perspective, but if you think about Cisco's heritage around the network and security, I think most people would agree they're very strong there. It's a very natural extension to have Cisco be a leader in multi-cloud because after all, it's how do I securely connect very diverse environments together? And now, a little further now, how do I help customers manage workloads, whether they be existing or new cloud native workloads? So we find it's a very natural extension to our core strengths and through both development and acquisition, Cisco's got a very, very broad and deep portfolio to do that. So your thoughts on that? Yeah, Cisco is coming from a networking history, but if you now look into the components, there is actually, yeah, the networking foundation. There is UCS, which we have, for example, in our infrastructure, that's Hyperflex. There are then solutions like CCP that you can run a DevOps organization, can combine it with Cloud Center to make it hybrid. And just today, I learned a new thing which is Kubeflow that I just recognized. Cisco is the first one that is coming up with a platform as a service-enabled private cloud. So if you go private cloud, we usually talk about running VMs. But now with CCP and this open source project, Kubeflow, which I think will be very interesting to see in conjunction with CCP. And I heard that this is going to happen. You're actually, Cisco is the first one delivering such a solution to the market. So it's a growth that just happened within the organization. Kubeflow for the CNCF. It's the Kubernetes flow, right? We don't have to send a season to CIS letter. Right. And CCP, they'd be in the Cisco container platform. We announced that some while ago. It's an on-prem Kubernetes stack. So Thomas, the update on Cloud Center suite now, it's containerized, it's got microservices, built with Kubernetes underneath and using Kubeflow. I'm guessing that's meaningful to you. There's a lot of things in this announcement that it's like, okay, it sounds good, but in the real world, what are you super excited for? The containerization, I would think things like the action orchestrator and the cost optimizer would have value, but please tell us yourself. The Cloud Center was already valuable before. We did an investigation about what kind of cloud prokering and cloud orchestration solutions exist. Back in those days when it was called Clicker Cloud Center and me and my colleagues know the Clicker team back then as well as now as a Cisco, we appreciated that they became one family. Now, for me, Cloud Center fulfills certain requirements that I simply have to fulfill for our customer and it's a mandatory fact that I have to fulfill them like, being able to ensure and guarantee portability. Implementing through policies, segregation of duties where necessary and things like that. I have to say now that it becomes containerized adds a lot of ease in managing Cloud Center as a solution by itself. And also you have the flexibility to have it better also migratable. It's an important key point that Cloud Center is a non-cloud-centric product that you can run it on-prem, that your orchestration, that you don't have to log in on the orchestration layer, can have it on-prem, but now can easily move it on things such as GKE because it's a container-based solution, but I think also there's a SAS option available so you can just subscribe to it. So you have the full range of flexibilities so that the day-to-day management workflow engine doesn't become a day-to-day management thing by itself. So I wonder if you could paint a picture for us of your environment since 1979. So you must have a lot of stuff, a lot of IT that you've developed over the years. But you mentioned that you're starting to look at public clouds. You just mentioned GKE. Your customer base, largely financial services, so they're highly regulated and maybe a little nervous about the cloud.  We have an own, what we call private-managed cloud, that's a product we call Uflex, which is the flex port reference architecture that's Cisco, it's networking, NetApp Storage, Cisco UCS in conjunction with SWE Mware as a compute. This we use since many years and as I already have said, the regulated market started opening up towards public clouds. So what does it mean?  The countries have put in place those regulations, they have put in place those controls and for them, they are mostly now in that, let's investigate what is infos in the public cloud. They come from their private infrastructure. They are in our infrastructure, which is like a private infrastructure, virtualized and managed by us, mainly VM based, and now the new thing on top that they investigate are things like big data, artificial intelligence and things like that, which you mostly don't have in private infrastructure. So that combination is what we have to provide to our customers, but they are mostly in an investigative mode. Okay, and Cisco is your policy engine, management engine across all those clouds, is that the... Yes, we are able to manage those workloads with Cloud Center. Sometimes it depends also on the operating model. The customer himself is the one using Cloud Center. So it depends, since we are an integrator, a cloud operator and also offer services in the public cloud, it's always the question about who has to manage what. And yeah. One of the things that I just add on that we see people providing our products as a service, we're just talking about Kubernetes. Customers today are starting to move Kubernetes just from being like development now into production. And what we're seeing is that these new Kubernetes based applications have non-containerized dependencies, reach out to another traditional app, reach out to a PaaS, a database. And what we try to do is to say, how do you give your customers the ability to get the new and the old working together? Because it'll be that way for quite some time. And that's a part of sort of the new Cloud Center capabilities also. That's a valid reason. So you have those legacy services and you don't want just to... You cannot just replace them now. Now let's go all in, let's be cloud native. So you have always these interoperability things to handle and yeah, that's true actually. You can build quite some migration path using containerization. Yeah, I mean, a customer can't just over rotate to all the new fun buzzwords. They got a business to run. Yeah. So, okay. And how do I apply security policies and access control and to this very mixed environment now? Common policies and that becomes challenging. But that's also part of our business. Yes, they are for example, financial institution and not an IT company. That's where we come in as a provider towards such an industry. And there we highly value the partnership with Cisco where we can build new services together. We had that earlier adopters program for example regarding CCP. So Cisco is bringing us as a service provider into the loop to build what's just right for the customer for them on their behalf. Yeah, so you described that as very challenging as it's in some cases it's chaos but that's the opportunity I heard this morning that you guys are going after pretty hard. No, it's right. I mean, you've got one set of desires for developers but now we move into production. Now IT gops gets involved, the CISO gets involved and how do we have then well thought out integrations into security and network management. Those are all of the things that we're trying to really focus on. Well, we're at the DevNet zone. So you were surrounded by infrastructure as code. And it fits in cloud well. Guys, thanks so much for coming to theCUBE and telling your story, really appreciate it. Thank you. Enjoyed it. Thank you. All right, keep it right there, buddy. Stu Miniman, Dave Vellante, we're live from Cisco live Barcelona. You're watching theCUBE. We'll be right back.


All right last public meeting of the year good times We'll wait a few more minutes folks come on in greetings Alex you're gonna be up first That's okay, it's good times. I don't believe all of our groups are going to be presenting today Yeah, I'll give it a few more minutes or so Dimms, let me know that he's not attending the day. I know Richard Hartman We've got some of the folks at the cute day in Japan and that's one in the morning for them So they're not gonna be here Good fun. That's probably fair enough, you know Time zones they work like you know in all sorts different ways sometimes good sometimes bad. It's fine Yeah, I'll give another minute and then we'll get started. So all right. I think when Claire This is like the we're gonna get we've got who we're going to get so we'll we'll go ahead and kick us off So welcome. You have made it Normal antitrust applies here. You have made its meeting or you've made it the recording one of two TUC members are here and Here's our updates We are doing tag updates day tag storage tech security runtime observability network environmental sustainability and contributor strategy So we are gonna kick us off with storage Alex passing to you. Thank you Hello Okay, so From a project's point of view we've shelled some of the previous updates So things like open EBS. We've just taken them off the slide for now until they come back with with an update on their side But one thing is I know the cloud native PG group Have reached out and said that they would like to Represent and reapply for sandbox following the feedback from the TOC So we'll we'll try and get that sorted out and then we had Xing From from our tag and Melissa from oh, that's a typo Melissa from the to do okay Which is the Dayton Kubernetes community Have proposed that we that we work on a collaboration and we we had a discussion in our last call and one of the things that came out was that we we could there's been a lot of questions and a lot of a Lot of opportunity to work on Perhaps a white paper that would cover database patterns in in Kubernetes so things like the the different operators that are available and then different ways of of Implementing this and then kind of ties ties in with the performance and disaster recovery work that we've done previously as well And so what we're going to do is we we agree that we're we're going to try and structure this similarly to some of our other white papers where we put a bit of a framework together to to To sort of like to kind of create a skeleton document and then Crowdsource from different community members the for the different chapters and different areas in there. So I'm going to try and set that up with Derek from the provigate team and Leonardo from the planet of PG team who have volunteered to help set this up and start up the documents and then we'll and then we'll Populate that as we go along. So that could be quite exciting for us and We're also working on This use case templates, which is which is basically a Template that we're trying to set up to cover off The attributes from the storage white paper and disaster recovery attributes and disaster recovery white paper And using that as a template For different use cases for stateful workloads in in Kubernetes and the and the idea would be that We could potentially seed See those the first few templates from and use cases from some of the work that we're doing with the database With the database work and the database patterns. So that could be a starting point The clarinet of disaster recovery we published that in the tag repo and we talked about it in our last Kubecon presentation as well the performance and benchmarking white paper. We probably need to get together again and just finalize stuff And we have additional with we've had a number of tag meetings over the last few months with with project updates and we're going to be reaching out to some additional projects as well to to get some more updates as we go along Especially with in collaboration with the with the the okay group too And that's that's us Excellent any questions from the group? Write nothing in chat Cool. Thank you much Thank you and given as we have The the next meeting is basically coming directly after the holidays I think you've got until February to be able to give your next update. So you got time Sounds good. Cool I do not see any security folks in the call the drop to run time Which is Ricardo come on in All right. Hello. Hi All right, so some some updates from tag runtime In terms of projects and presentations and involvement with the community In the containers and runtime space we had Project called Lima present It's basically Linux virtual machines Allows you to run container D on top of Different types of architectures, but mostly for Mac So that's done. This is a sandbox project in the CNCF already We also had the container D project come in and present So they provided an update of the roadmap showed us What's coming in versions 1.7 and beyond so very Excited to see that from the container D project. It's already a graduated project and Being used around the world in many many areas many services You also use by Kubernetes In terms of workloads We have a project called case serve That is presented in our next meeting and this project Basically allows you to serve machine learning models Using Kubernetes custom resource definitions CRD's So we'll see that next We also had another project called CBL Mariner It's basically Linux distribution for the edge from the folks at Microsoft that already done they presented in The I think last month They gave me is familiar with that and another project called in NARTS And it's a different take on confidential computing but using web assembly we reached out to them They've already replied. So there's interest in presenting. So hopefully we'll see that present in the next few meetings And what means another project that we also reached out? this is a web assembly interpreter and They've also replied. So we expect them to present soon Also, the open source or open policy registry presented last month and this is basically Opa policies using the OCI spec So the relationship there with runtime is that they're using the OCI spec This is more closely related to runtime in that area, but you know, it also overlaps with security in In terms of activities with the tag we one of the things going on with our IoT working IoT edge working group we published the first draft of our net edge native principles of white paper it's in the github repo in we Expect to work or they expect to work with the CNCF and also with the tag to create a Edge native landscape. So we'll be reaching out later and to to make that happen. So Either they want to create at their own land landscape or maybe they'll want to add it to the CNCF landscape And The batch system initiative Working group also continues to make progress on different things One of them is for for example interactive jobs. So they're working with the Kubernetes community to make that happen In KubeCon North America, we also had an in-person session with The unit craft team and they talked about unit kernels So we got some engagement with with that project specifically And we're also planning an in-person session for KubeCon EU. I Think that's all for the updates for tag runtime for now and I think I see a question. What did you learn from the workload? presentations from Josh Not really sure what the question means. It's like it's a general presentation from from the from the community or You had all these presentations of different workloads Obviously, we're trying to learn something from them. So what did you learn? Yeah, I mean, it's multiple things. I mean that they the projects some of them are maturing for example, like CVL CVL Mariner is Being created by Microsoft and they They plan to Continue to to get more contributions, but internally they're they're being used but Internally at Microsoft and there's there's No No direct plan maybe I made it to the NCF, right? So that's one that's one example, right? So but I don't have so there's I mean many things that you you get to learn, right? So Okay, well, I wasn't I wasn't able to attend the The roundup meeting last month So maybe you can give me some context on these workload interviews CBL Mariner is not going to become a CNCF project Right. So so my question is why were you interviewing? What what were you getting out of it? I think I can speak like help like frame some of this like Ricardo The tag runtime tends to be able to go reach out towards like wide varieties of different places That are working in cloud native even if they're not going to come and touch like CNCF directly Ricardo like please help me if I'm mischaracterizing any of that. That's that that's correct, right? Yeah, so I mean it doesn't mean that they're gonna be part of the CNCF that the idea is to engage different projects so that they actually come in and and present and and provide their Yeah, their input and and and actually people attend the meeting and engage the community So they get they get more interested in open source in general, right? So in in in this area right intact runtime, right? I mean every tag has a different scope, right? So Does that make sense? Okay, okay. Thanks Happy For the workloads, right? You have different types of workloads here. Is there any integration work you're planning to integrate for example with a WebAssembly integrator? Any sort of any planning to integrate with that workload? Great the runtime that container deal Yeah, I mean like for example, the tainterd has a has a like They provided in the roadmap and actually they actually they they have an integration with WebAssembly for example, right? So So and I think I've seen a number of these projects like Docker also trying to add like WebAssembly So so yeah, so it's not an up-and-coming area, right? I mean, it's not fully used in production environments in a lot of places, but But but maybe we'll see it in the future Looking around for anybody else any other questions Thank you tag runtime, we'll see you in February Thank you. Yay. All right moving on Observability, I am not sure if I've got anybody from observability on the line From once going twice They're doing things observe They're doing a lot of things if like if anybody comes on in wants to be able to give voice to this one happy to move back And we'll move on a network Nice very good The other tag is observing at the moment, so everyone be quiet It how many points am I gonna lose if I ask you to refresh this line? Not a ton, not a ton, you could one for your share like, you know Like once a year you We've got space today, like it's fine. I'm not worried Oh, right. Hello. All good. All good Come on back in Hey, you could have second to be able to like, you know, oh, yeah Make even worse jokes, and I already did that and be perfect All good So the tag hasn't It missed a couple of meetings for a bunch of different reasons, but the upcoming agenda As we have it for this Thursday Really has two things it's An update on network service mesh and Just a project update. It's been a little over a year since we'd heard from that that project that one's within the Within the tag today And so Mr. Ed Warneke should be presenting that. That'd be good. The other agenda item is this an upcoming cloud native playground from the meshery project You think many of you for the context here is probably many of you are familiar with meshery as a service mesh manager and it's expanded its scope to include cloud native management in general or it kind of be a multi cluster Kubernetes manager and as such it it's a That the working group here has been helping Prepare a playground to come and explore a broad variety of the cncf projects specifically so that people can um visually design and configure those cncf projects so Here the playground is an up and coming announcement from um the meshery project And that'll be hopefully presented on thursday There's an upcoming presentation from slime A project that is I think currently proposed for sandbox um, and so we need to get them slotted that is a A service mesh manager. I'm bringing additional intelligence on top of istio specifically Is what slime is And so yeah, that's that's about what the group has And bad jokes too All good any questions from the group? All right. Thank you very much tag network. We will see you over in February. Thank you Hey Perfect. Oh, welcome in welcome in new tag environmental sustainability Which one of the chairs wants to be able to take it? That will be me. Hi everyone. Max come on in How are you doing? Um, so I hope next time when we meet in february We will also come up with some uh nice logo. It's currently in apol So hopefully soon we have also some nice animal to show you and display and recognize us um So far maybe the the minor milestones we have set up all the governance structure. So we are open for presentation um, we have their Uh, the process or the standard process how to bring presentations to us and now we're Open looking forward to get some very interesting tools to see um from the community perspective, uh, we voted caro delia um As a tech lead and she got nominated or other way around she got nominated and she got voted um to take over the role as one of our tech leads, which is very great because she has a long track environmental sustainability and community work and It's a great great fit for that role um, also until now we have an environmental sustainability survey, um running which was closed last week And we have more or less around 50 participants so far It was just debuted through the kc in uh to skip gone in north america and the kcd's and social media and the purpose of this survey is to understand from the cloud native perspective of um, what are the current interesting parts for the community in the end user Two words environmental sustainability. What are the challenges? What they're working on and what they want to do next? Um, we know and we are aware of that. There are also other surveys around like from the queen software foundation But as the name also spells they have a very deep software focus They touch some cloud topics and we are here in a close uh communication with the managing directors of the gsf um to ensure that we In future maybe keep this question a little bit more in sync and that they are more like adding to each other value rather than to be um Like a competitor next steps for that Waiting for getting the feedback on or getting the answers to analyze them and then create a report for the first insights Um, and yeah, then we are actually looking to the direction of kubekan kubekan glennay.com europe Um, it's I guess very soon after christmas. It feels like just a few weeks more and then we are there So, um, we are currently proposing or working on the proposal for a tech talk and also playing a project meeting um the last kubekans we did this more like uh at hawk and in between the chairs I'm now happy to set up a real life meeting with all the community here in europe and everyone who comes over And um as an additional target for the kubekan we have two major topics We are working on which is a landscape document giving an overview of what is currently available what you can do within the cloud native landscape To ensure environmental sustainability And in addition to work on a cloud native environmental Sustainability majority model, um, which is oriented or should be oriented on the kato krafos working group And either should be like an add-on, but we have to talk with the people Or a standalone version of it with a clear focus environmental sustainability And that's it. No, it's super. Thank you All right questions for actually, what are you well calling yourselves now? Are you tag inv? um The vote falls for tag inv Okay, tag in. Okay, awesome Lovely. All right. Kathy, it's a question for you. Yeah. Yeah, so I think this you know survey report is very good. So where are you going to publish that the report? Mm-hmm. Um, I think that's not yet clarified Most likely at at latest point or at least it will be in our github repository but we will also ensure that we will communicate it hopefully and through the cncf channels and Yeah publish it through all the ways which I reckon reach out to Okay, thank you. Basically watch this place for more. Yeah, there's gonna be more Yeah, all right moving right along. Thank you max Thank you for your strategy. We've got a lot of folks on the line. Let's take it on. Come on in. Hello everyone. Hello Um, yeah, so we we had I guess a lot of stuff going on. Um, since last update, uh, there was kubecon, of course so we had quite a bit of Um presence there. So we had a project pavilion kiosk and a maintainer session And also lots of ad hoc discussions with the ncf projects. So both the maintainer session the kiosk and just having us there generated lots of Conversations and so lots of projects were stopped by to get advice. So that was that was really really nice We just finished the contributor survey. So it was just closed. We're still in the process of analyzing the results um, but they are working on a blog post for A little just a little bit of data about the survey that the cncf is Helping us drive that blog post. So that should be coming shortly. I think we're editing it right now And then we're also talking a lot about next steps for just the tag awareness campaign that we've been pushing for a while. So with the Uh decline of twitter, uh, we're having conversations around uh mastodon around linkedin Other places where we can promote some of the tags efforts And get the word out about the resources that we have. So those those discussions are are ongoing if you have any Opinions, uh, let us know in slack. That would be that'd be great And then, you know, we did some of this at cube con, but it also happens quite a bit in other forums, but we do Give advice and have lots of discussions that help various cncf projects with You know, contribute growth and governance. So we we've talked to captain for contributor ladder We've talked to a few projects around governance. So backstage operator framework and c r i o As well as some, you know, potential new cncf projects for review So this is something that happens in various channels like and people ping us on slack people drop into our meetings And this is this is what we're here for right? This is a core part of what tag contributor strategy is designed to do Is provide advice for projects the mentoring working group has just been on a tear we've uh, I say we've The the group that works on mentoring has done a ton of stuff recently. So, you know, google seasons of season of docs We've had three mentorships 16 for google summer of code There's been a bunch of activity around the lfx mentorships with um, you know, 24 projects in the most recent term which was September through November Which is fantastic and all of this added up is 106 mentorship projects this year, which is fabulous And 95 mentors across those projects. So so kudos to Nate and jay and the rest of the the mentorship team for that The other thing we have is a proposal to add governance review as a requirement for graduation So we do this informally for lots of projects as they're talking about the move from incubation to governance, but one of the key elements of graduation is that It'd be, you know, company neutral and that they're um, that the governance has moved beyond that dominance by a single company So one of the things that we think we should do is have that be a requirement the same way that the tag security review is a requirement for projects moving to graduation So, uh, I think josh created this issue Yesterday or the day before the last couple of days So it's linked here and so I would encourage all of the In particular the tsc members, but also the rest of the group from the various tags to have a look at that issue and You know thumbs up writes and comments give us some feedback Because that is something that we want to bring into the the tsc for a vote shortly And then our regularly scheduled reminder that we are here to help projects So if you see projects struggling with governance Contributor growth Any of the topics covered by the tag send us, you know, send them our way. We're happy to help Any questions about any of that? See nothing but lots of good work going on in here That yeah, definitely kudos on like the how many mentorships you've got. Yeah, sure. Kathy come on in Yeah, yeah, I just want to say yeah, it's a lot of you know, good work out here. I think yeah, it's a very good work It can move along This is our last piece in here. So like we're gonna wrap up early today. I'm pretty sure um Any updates on projects moving around From the folks on the call. I know that I've got uh, Dave on the call and uh, harry's with us as well I mean, I can always call in just in cormac too Right, so Yeah, yeah, I could give some update around, um Open coolest and kubevilla. So both of them have submitted the due diligence documentation for review and actually the first one we have been done and we give certain Feedbacks and comments but overall it's in good shape And they also actively scheduled the end user interviews for both And we have almost done more than half of the end user interviews. So I will say the progress is pretty fast So hopefully at least one of them can move to a public comment before the holiday. So we are in good shape Falco we Falco, we just got the dark. Um, and we've got some people to interview but um, so we just got there today So we're making progress there as well Excellent. Okay. That is good news All right, any other projects that want to be able to like I we don't have everybody here So I'm not gonna like run through the whole list And so some update on the, um Cryo the CIO project um Yeah, we have started the kickoff meeting with the maintainers and have identified some new Adopters or users for the interview. So interview session is being set up It's moving forward. Well, that's super excellent All right, hearing hearing nothing further from the group. Um, we'll move on to like last questions in here Alex come on in Oh, no, no, there's no questions Sorry, but it's when we when people are new to I assume that means it like that my hand is up except my hand is not up um Going once I will send everybody back into their day. It's good to see all of you. Thank you so much for dropping in today That's all for the update from tags. We'll see you in February Thank you