Hello everyone. My name is Akal Agwek Ngong. I am a former president of both community in the U.S. and I have been a resident of Bromance for the last 18 years. I'm part of the former Lost Boys of Sudan. In the studio today is Mr. Panchul Jankunyukul. He was an old-time educator from Sudan, beginning teachings in 1978. And the reason why he is in the studio today is because he was one of the founding teachers of the Lost Boys education back in Ethiopia in 1987, 1988. And he continued with that program through internally displaced person camps of Pachala and Narus. And he continued with the same program at a Kakuma refugee camp in Kenya. And so he has been a part of Lost Boys' story from the day they entered Ethiopia. And the reason why we brought him to the show today is because he has been visiting us in the U.S. And we felt like the story of the Lost Boys education has been missed. And so our focus today in the studio is to talk about how he and his colleague actually established education. It is going to focus on education of the Lost Boys from Ethiopia all the way to Kenya. And then we'll talk very briefly about how the resettlement of the Lost Boys came about in the late 1990s that we came here. And if there is any other things that we can talk about, we will. So I thank our Brumman viewers and all people who are watching us around the world today. So we welcome you, Usas Panchul to the studio. Welcome to Brumman. And with me here is Megan, who is also going to be a cause of the program. Again, our program will focus purely, purely on the Lost Boys education since Mr. Panchul was the founder, one of the founding members who actually established the program. So welcome. Do you want to say anything, Megan? No, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you very much. As you have had, my name is Panchul Junkwit. Formerly I was a teacher in profession before war broke out in San Sudan in earlier 1983. Then due to the insecurity situation, I migrated to Ethiopia and to Kakuma refugees came in 1988. The idea of movement to Ethiopia was to seek for the security and better life. From there, we are really very lucky to have a chairman from our community, Mr. Pyong Den, depotized by Tembiyar. Then the logistics was Mr. Alayri Om. In the refugee scam, it has been realized that most of the children in the refugee scams miss their parents. They are just later on with our proper care. He has decided to call a community meeting whereby people sit, sit down and then identify the number of these minors within the community. They organize, at least at the end, they identified almost 12,000 children. As a result, people went and organized for a meeting so that they are a group, in group, in whichever group was made one thousand, each group one thousand. They established almost 10 groups of minors, the bill for themselves shelters with the support of the caretakers. Then we, the teachers, with the teachers volunteers to continue if possible in taking care, then organize some sort of teaching. With the help of UNHCR and the management of the camp, we were able to open some classes for them. And it was a bit very difficult because which curriculum to adopt, because in Ethiopia, they were teaching the Amharic, which is contrary to our situation back home. Then culturally, we differ a bit with Ethiopia. So we sought to decide jointly with UNHCR and the management of the camp to adopt the Kenyan curriculum. So the Kenyan curriculum was adopted in Ethiopia? It was adopted due to similarities in culture and environment. Then from there UNHCR was able to facilitate and bring in some books and curriculum. Then we started teaching in 1988, continuity in 1989, we continued up to 90. In 91, when the president, the prime minister, Mangusto was overthrown, then we had a lot of worries. Then we decided to evacuate children to the liberated areas of San Sudan, particularly in Poshala. That was very hard and difficult withdrawal because the attacking group were following us. Then we have to rush. A lot of losses occurred in a particular place called Gilo. We managed to move up to Poshala. In Poshala, they were organized and we continued with them. We organized them and we keep them in a very hard life because there were no food for some days. But Red Cross came in and there's RRC, which is San Sudan Relief Rehabilitation Commission. They came for an assessment. Later on, after one month, the food was brought, airlifted. We continued for the whole of 91. In 92, there was also a preparation of the Sudan government. We joined the Supreme Government to attack Poshala. Then we had to move out from Poshala with the children. Some of them were later on court and sent to Khatum. We rushed with some of them up to Boomer. From Boomer, we came to Koragrab. Luckily enough, the Red Cross followed us and then came with some tracks that facilitated us because it's an area where there's no water. An area also was completely full of hazards. Then we managed to move up to Magos. And I was really very happy just to see... In this picture, I was with these children. And in this place, we were even attacked. We lost some children, almost seven something or that kind lost in this attack. From there... Were you here? I was here. In this picture. I was accompanying them in this picture. So I was really very happy just to see this one. Where are you in this picture? You cannot see. I mean, where in Sudan are you? It would have been in a place called Magos and Capoeira. Somewhere between Poshala and Naroos. Then it was a long journey, very hard. We managed to move up to Capoeira. Then from there to Naroos. And how many children are here at this point? The number increased because we were moving with some families that were following. Almost 16,000. The number increased. 16,000. So we move, we travel up to Naroos. In Naroos, the area was prepared by the Red Cross. Some food was there, prepared. And then when we came to Naroos, they were provided food. People settled. Very unfortunate attack again, Capoeira. We had to move the children to the Kenyan border. When we reached Kenyan border, UNHCR came and picked the children to Kakuma. That was the little story about how we moved that long journey up to Kakuma. And at that point, 16,000 are moving into the Kakuma campus. Exactly. And how many people are in Kakuma already? That's a huge camp there, right? It's a huge camp. There was nobody at Kakuma. At that point? And so it was actually opened by the UNHCR. And so the teacher, Mr. Panjul, just said that there were 16,000 children. Children. But when you add the families, I do not include the families because it's what does a movement. We are unable even to count. But we know the number of the minors because we have the one that's courting them. So in Kakuma, the process of continuing with education continued with the support of UNHCR. Some unused that are connected with education came in like Radabanan, well food, sorry, Lutheran Welfare Federation. They came in and support. IRC, International Rescue Committee. So we came and divided the teachers into two. A group that stay at the residence areas with them to control them because they don't have parents. We call them cateches. A group that teach in the class, physically. So we came and divide the teachers into two. The group that sleep with them, control them, cancel them. And then the group that teach them at daytime. That was the process and education continued until the process of settlement came in, until some of them just decided to come to this end. So that's all about the movement of these people and how we organize them and feed them to Kakuma. How you move from Ethiopia. It's 12,000 back to South Sudan and then back to Kakuma. Back to Kakuma. And then just travel that long way up to Kakuma. Yeah. Now you both originally from Boer, right? Did you know one another before you were displaced? Did you know one another in Boer? I didn't know. He knows my parent, but I don't think he knew me. But since the founding of the schools back in 1988, he became my teacher. So I knew him then. And I have known him throughout this time. Because he was one of the founding educators who actually built the program. What is the importance? How did you get called to become an educator? What is the importance of education to you? Yeah. In fact, professionally, as I told you earlier, I was a teacher. I'm trained on how to manage the primary education in terms of how to manage the primary school curriculum, how to manage the resources and so forth. So myself, I was the Inspector of Zone One because we divided schools into zones. And that was a thousand students present. I was given Zone One as an Inspector and member of Education Committee. That was the arrangement. But my job as teacher, I like it because I'm trained on that line. So when I came here, I thought I have to volunteer because these children are children of my own country. So if I'm staying idly, I have to give them what I have. So that was my contribution to my community. Yeah. And what's important about education? Why is it so important? Why when we're as a people struggling for food and shelter and life, why is education so important in that? Yeah, it was really very important because most of the school in South Sudan were closed. Yeah. Because the Civil War was very tough in the South. Some areas are run by the SPLM and some areas were still under the government. So the towns under the government remains as military barracks because the citizens ran out from it. So completely there was no education. So we thought when this country got an independent, who will manage it? So that's why we thought of educating these groups so that when it comes to the level, to the stage of development, then they can pay up from there. So you're looking at that. That was how we see it was important. Now, the Megan question is very interesting. I assume that because I didn't know I assume that when we had when you had this conversation with the UN, probably they thought about giving food and medicine, but education was not their priority. So you might have actually negotiated with the UN to actually support education as well. You see when you see the rights of the human being, education is part of rights. And that's why we convinced the UN ECR. Food is a service that is a right of the person and education also is a right. So as right, we have to struggle to see that these children are getting educated. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what you were saying the difference culturally between the Ethiopian curriculum and the Kenyan curriculum? When come to the language, the the medium of instruction in Ethiopia is Amharic. The national language Amharic. The national is Amharic. Yeah. And then our national language is considered in Sudan is English and Arabic. Yeah. So when you take an Ethiopian language, it will not suit the environment at home. And then I mean, one of the things that strikes me and I'm very naive about it is the numbers of different cultural languages from Sudan that have come to settle in Vermont. And what was that like in the camps to have so many different cultural backgrounds just from South Sudan, tribal differences or tribal languages? In fact, I'm not clear a bit with the question. So the question very much is, especially when people with different languages from South Sudan came to this refugee camp. So we might not have the same language in which they communicate. How did you manage to actually run the camp and manage these people and orient them specifically around education? Yeah, exactly. You see, when we migrated from South Sudan to the neighboring countries, our national language was English. So we communicated in Arabic and English. So communication was very easy. There was no problem. When you go to your local community, you speak your whole language. But when come to the general situation, you speak English and Arabic. Yeah, we use them both. And the South Sudanese identity becomes more important. Yeah. Yes, as a follow up to Megan question, with Pancho is if I remember very clearly in Ethiopia in 1998, when you open schools, we were only you only started the program with education and there was no Arabic. Why? Yes, we share discussion on the issue. People thought Arabic was to be included to the curriculum. But where will you get the textbooks? And it was difficult because we had the line, we're all lying between cartoon and and asia. So we thought when when we adopt an Arabic, where will you get the books? Very difficult. So in that regard, we say we better we better take English only. Can you give us a picture, a call of what the school, what school looks like for you and Kakuma? There is cool at Kakuma. Thank you. They, they, they school as they has as the teacher said, when let me just go back to Ethiopia to pin you do. When they is when they started and I wanted to ask them a question, when they started the program, there were no buildings. There were no, there were no, it's technically, there were no pen, there were no notebooks, there were no books, there were no schools. And so we had to start, they had to group us into 12 groups, as he said, then they had to recruit teachers. I believe the teacher told me they recruited about 75 people from the local population. 75, maybe there were 10 of them already 85. How does, can you imagine, how does 85 people teach 12,000 people? What kind of a school is it? So yeah, go ahead. Yeah, we came and divided into two sessions. We teach them at the morning session group. And they go, when this group move, we start with another group. This is how we continue. But we continue the recruitment, because whenever we feel those who knows how to ride, and then we also we continue recruiting the number increases, that what they start. Okay. It advice. It is something what they start. But at the end, we recruited a lot of the people. And no schools. So with no books, no paper, no pans, no buildings. What's the most important thing that you want to teach a group of kids? Let me just answer that question. Yeah. So what if I remember better clearly, they started opening schools under the trees. So when it rains, then there is no school. Exactly. When it is sunny like today, there is a school. So that was it. Then they divided as the teacher said, they divided into two sessions. There is was morning session, if I remember, and evening and afternoon sessions, the same class, the same teacher.  Then you go home. Then the second, the afternoon group comes, the same teacher. Then they are taught the same subject. And so what became most important was you sit in a circle. If I remember, I remember my first great teacher was who says Gabriel Bach. So he would make us sit in the circle. And then we would write ABC in the dirt. And so I remember my first exam was actually done in the dirt, ABC. That was how we were tested. And so the UN came in and they saw that the teachers already organized the program. So they brought material as the teacher said. They brought books. They brought, you know, they brought the best grade books from Kenya called allow children and distributed to us. And so over the three years, the programming, we actually builds our own schools, our own classroom. We built our own dumps. And then the UN supplied us with with with with with the books and the notebooks and the pens and the pencil. What I don't remember is is and I I don't know where you paid or where you volunteered. We're volunteers. Volunteers. There was no pay. And this seems like it must have come culturally from the communities that you were born in. The community that you grew up in there must have been a strong support for education as a value, as you say, as a human right. Yes. And and and if I could jump in that, yes, the the they felt well, that they felt that that that that the population of South Sudan was losing education because of the war. If they if if no if the if our generation was not educated, then there would be a problem when peace comes. So they they felt as he said that that that they should volunteer to develop us and and and and and I I didn't remember what was happening, what the discussion where we were just there and receive whatever service that was given to us. And in this case it was education. Yeah. In addition, the we had also women group organized in the camp. And whenever there are children that malnourished, then they organize porridge, the sub food for them. So they usually come as women and they move every morning with with some kind of sub food for malnourished children. So the that group also that that was their contribution. So they were also considered as catechists because daily they just come and move with this. And whenever there are malnourished children, then they are given services separately or at the basis. So that was the contribution we made as volunteers, teachers and even the community also was also very concerned about their life. The word is often lost boys, but are there lost girls? Is it lost children? Boys and girls. And even here we as I said here on the program many times. Yes, there were lost girls. But what as the teacher said the girls who were there in the refugee camp were put up in the post set families. But we remain in the minor group. And so but it's still as you can remember we we had lost girls who came here. About three thousand and six hundred who resettled here in the US. We have a handful of lost girls who ended up here with us. Yeah. But the name lost boys I didn't know until I came here was when I when people called me a lost boy. When you came to the United States. And then people began calling us lost boys. That was how I learned about the name. Yeah. Before that, nope. Yeah. We were actually called minors and accompanied minors. And accompanied minors, yeah. So it's a way of telling the stories to use the term. Yeah. I mean I'm struck by the Sudanese community here, the strong value that education plays this. Do you agree that that's something. Yes. I agree. And it has. And it has something to do with our elders, like the teacher, teacher financial here that they they at a very young age. They sensitize us that we should value education because when you learn that often opportunities for you to progress. And so when we relocated to the U. S. We still continue with that value. And so that is why education is such a very, very important value to us as a community and as a people. And and and and I don't know how many time they told us to take education seriously. They they said it time and again. So so that is why it is stuck with that. So let me go back to the teacher and has so now it is 1998, 97 and then the U. S. or the UNHCR and the USA. We want to take these boys. How will it happen?  And some communities do see when these children go there, they will get better life. They might also get the education. As an issue, people later on agreed that if they go there, they will be getting better life and they might even as a diaspora, they will be supporting us back because they will support families. And even those who might come to San Sudan also will will transfer the education they gain to San Sudan and help in the development of San Sudan. So at the end we came realize that they are going to USA. It's not harmful. It's good. But yet some people, including me, were seeing when they say lost boy, we thought our children got lost. But then the issue of loss was really in our concept was really very bad. If our children lost, how will we get them? But recently we came realize that these children have not lost. Because they still support the families back home as diaspora. They are even contributing in boosting the national economy. So that thing is not existing at the moment in my mind. My coming here also made me happy because I get most of them now landed some with master degrees, some with PhDs and some with degrees and so some are still in the schools. That means our children are in good hands and are in good care. So we are really thankful to the American people for having taken care of our children and the government at the same time. We are happy on that. So the idea of being lost and not lost is not that existing at the moment. And helping to contribute to the communities of the United States and the overall stability of the world. I mean because if any place is in war, it affects all of us. Yes, I agree Megan. As the teacher said, we are contributing to so-so done in many ways. As the teacher said rightly, we have been sending remittances that are supporting our families and our relatives back home. We are educating people. We are treating people. We are doing all sort of things to help back home there. And that is a great thing. And to your point, we are contributing to the US as well. You know, as an educator myself here at the University of Vermont, I am contributing to the US and that regard. I am a taxpayer. I am a good citizen. So yes, we are contributing to both places and that makes war a better place in that regard. But again, I always go back and say what if people like teacher Panjul, what if they did not design that program from day one? Yeah. Then we spend 15 years in both refugee camp from Ethiopia to Kenya. And then I come here at the age of 25, 22, 23, 21. There was no education. Where would I have begun? Do you think, as the teacher said, do you think there would be people with master's degree, with PhDs, with professional degrees in law and in medicine? And also, do you think we will have those people? Maybe, but it would have been later on if that were to happen. So they did design a good program. And I was talking to people, I was talking to, I was presenting to another group a few weeks ago, and they were amazed by the quality of education that came with us when we arrived here. And that actually helped us to get it started very quickly. And so we me, I am always thankful to our teachers who founded the program. And if we are fortunate to have one of them be with us, then it gives us an opportunity for him to hear. We have always been telling you our story, but there has never been somebody like him who actually designed the program for us to actually tell their part of the story. And we had that one today. Yeah. Yes, it's sincere. Thank you. Thank you for your work. What are you doing? What do you what work? What are you doing here to visit? What do you who are you visiting in the US here? And what are you doing in South Sudan now? In fact, they had a community meeting. Yeah. And they thought of calling me as a visitor. My days are almost now ending and I'll leave soon. I'll go back to South Sudan. So I was just kind of came here as a visitor. Yeah. Yeah. So we have, as you see, as you call me the former president of board community in the US, we invited three of our eldest, you know, in every four years and every now three years and every three years we change leadership. And when we change leadership, we invite our eldest to come and be part of us as we change the leadership so that they can tell the new leadership some advice. And so we invited three of them, our community leader back home and then he was as punctual teacher, punctual as our teacher. And then we invited a medical doctor to we's also running Alice program back home. So three of them came, the community leader just returned and teacher punctual only has about a week to return. And so that was how they came. And so we met, we changed the leadership. And then they have a little bit of time to visit people around the US and to see some places. So hopefully he might be able to to visit Boston. If you get out of here. Three other places, yeah, because Burlington is beautiful, but but maybe he has been in the Midwest a lot. So maybe visiting city of Boston might be a good experience. And what have you learned from your students? To tell them what have you learned from your students in your life as a teacher? Very good, very good. Here or when I was in the camp, wherever. In fact, when I came here, I was given a chance to give some kind of advice. I felt very happy because they were the very one that facilitated my ticket up to this end. And my stay here, they are taking care of me. They will also take me back to to San Sudan. That is a reward. I'm very happy indeed. It's a reward because I've been terrible. You see this condition. I've been moving with them without payment. And now you took you to dinner. So I felt I have done something. I felt I have done something. And I felt I'm rewarded because this movement was very difficult. Also, I'll go back here with a very good message that our children are doing well, are doing well. I will take the message. They have not lost. They have not lost. They are under the proper care. It doesn't sound like you are ever lost. It sounds like you had very good guidance. We have never been lost. And and and and even as the teachers said, even during the days when we when the name the Lost Boys came about, I had an issue with the name. But then I got up by it and accepted it. We have never been lost in that regard. And and and yes, and and we we we have a good life here. And and we hope that to continue contributing to to the U.S. to so so done and to humanity. And that that that's that is what the educators want is is is when you you get people, when you give people knowledge, the goal is to improve humanity. And and and and I think they they did that to in a very significant way. If I would add to your question. U.S. financial is to us. As as as a professional educator. Is there any other profession better than education? No. To me. No. Because it's my field. And I used to when I was a teacher, I've undergone so many courses about the methodology. I've gone, I attended some courses of psychology. I've attended the management of primary schools in terms of resources and management of the curriculum. So to me it has become my profession and I do see it better than and and and another job. The reason I'm asking that and I will the U.S. teacher for until I will the reason why I ask you this question is and Megan, you would agree with me. Education tend not to be rewarded. In a way, other professions are do you agree with me? Even here in the U.S. Yeah. Public school teachers. In the teacher punctual profession basically is K through 12. If we are talking about American education curriculum you would be expert in K through 12. Yeah. The way the teachers are rewarded compensated here in the U.S. It's not it's not it's not what we think their value or their contribution to the society is that is also the case across the board. And I don't know why this is my problem. Why does the society not reward people who are actually giving knowledge to other people in a way that other professions are in a way that other professions are being rewarded. I always have an issue with that. And so it and I have never found an educator who is not proud of their profession and you have seen the answer from from the teacher here. One last question is since you start teaching in 1978 up to now you have educated a lot of people. It's a lot of people. If you could look at begging Sudan and then all in the refugee camp and internal displays camps and up to now what what are the one things you are proud of? Yeah. In fact, I'm always very proud. I remember I went to the hospital in Juba. I went and found a very long queue. Long line. Long line. Then when I came and stand behind. One of my my boys I thought so me is a medical doctor. He has just ordered workers to come and call me and I was given number one treatment. I'm very proud about that. This is my production. My product. My product. That's fine. Also, when I was invited I was doing the other businesses. But they say that has bring our teacher. That has bring our teacher. I'm very proud. When I came and showed them most of the my very good number of my boys completed universities and degrees and master degrees. Oh, I'm very proud about this. I'm part of that. So I'm very proud about you people. I'm very proud of those who I have taught before the war. Because most of them now are in the doing well in the government of Sudan. So I'm happy on that. I'm very proud about them. Yes. If I could add to the teacher's answer is those of us who are here, those that have been taught in the refugee camp and other places, there are more of them back home than last year. And they are also educated to. Exactly. And they are also contributing to South Sudan. The development of South Sudan. The development of South Sudan. I think that we will end this. This is the end of all of the questions that I have and and and and the only things that I would ask you are the final thing is is if you could go back during during the time when you you you and your colleague started the program to when you came to the U.S. Is there anything you could do different if you were to do it again? Is there anything you could do differently? There was nothing to do apart from education. We our plans and intention was to see you getting the knowledge. When when the country got an independent automatically the the question of development and service delivery comes in. So apart from education you got here. I don't think we would have nothing more than that. Our intention was to get you educated to see you living better life because you were deprived of staying with your families and your relatives. So there's nothing apart from education that was our intention to see you educated and so forth. Yeah. If there are any final question Megan. I think not. I think you're continuing to be an educator now in South Sudan. I'm almost retiring. I'm almost six or six or seven years now. So I'm doing other businesses now at the moment. But we remain always as consultants. When there's need we come and come and advise and so forth on educational life. That's all. And how. And I'm very happy with the channel with the many men of this channel. Thank you for joining us. Thank you very much. It's a golden opportunity for me just to converse with you. And I'm very proud about these children because these are children from my home country. Whenever I see them suffering I always feel bad and when I see them better often good in education and with better services with proper security I feel also very happy because I'm part and the partial of this program. Since since since in 83 up to the moment. I'm also very I'm very happy. I don't know whether I will get this one because these documents completely we didn't have. I don't know whether I will get the one getting one is very important. So thank you to the channel many many men of this channel. Otherwise I have nothing more to add apart from thank you. Thanks to the people of USA and American government for this proper care taken with with my kids and so forth. Thank you. Well, thank you so much. Thank you teacher Panchul and and I assume that you will write a book about this experience. That would be my recommendation. If you write a book about this story I think that people will be interested in reading it and this is this conclude this program. We have just ended interviewing teacher who starts Panchul John Kunyukul who was a teacher for the Lost Boys since the program was started in Ethiopia Penyudu and he just came to visit us and he will be returning home soon. So to Brumman audience and to all of our audience around the world we have you have just had the interview with the teacher and we hope you have enjoyed hearing from him about how they establish the story of the Lost Boys and I as part of the Lost Boys I would take this opportunity to thanks the teacher and his colleague for establishing a very successful program who have given us head start what would be an equivalent of K through 12 education that came to us here to the US and we have been able to actually go to universities because of the quality of that education and we are very thankful to our teacher who is here in the studio and to all his colleague around the world some of them may have passed and some of them were still there we owe them a huge a huge, huge appreciation for that and to conclude of course I always thanks American people and Brumman test for taking care of us we have been successful here and we have built successful life here because of the opportunity that American people have afforded us and I call myself a proud US citizen so this in our program and thank you so much and again my name is I call I went wrong I will end it there and thank you so much Bye Thank you


of the year 1987 that we'll be recording. And what I wanted to do on this program, which we think will probably be an hour program, is do something a little bit different than what we've done in the past. And that is to maybe reflect on some of the activities of the past year, do a little bit of traveling about the city and see what's going on, talk a little bit about what we expect to see happening in the future. And with me today is my special guest. This is Levi Sanders, who is my son, who is just spending the Christmas holidays back from college in Springfield, Massachusetts. And behind the camera is Nat Air. And before we go any further, I do want to thank the people at CCTV, Nat Air and Lauren Glendavidian and the others for the tremendous help which they provided me and many of us on cable access. Not only for this program, but for the Board of Aldermen programs, the School Board programs, the City Attorneys programs, the Youth Office programs, the Arts Council programs, and other programs. One of the thoughts that I feel very strongly about, one of the things that I feel very strongly about is that in a democracy, people have got to know what's going on in their own communities. And to a large degree, the mass media does not do that. And I think in terms of cable access, we're making some real progress in allowing the people of Burlington and of our region to know what is happening in their own community. And we're excited about that, and we in fact intend to do everything that we can to expand the concept of cable access to get more people from the community, not only those associated with government, but people in general on television so that they can better communicate with their neighbors. All right, before we move on to a new location, let me reflect a few things about what's been happening in this building this last year and what will happen during the next year. And that is while we look at the various problems that the city has, it's important to understand how the city is able to raise the revenue that it needs in order to address the problems. Sometimes I think people think that if they identify a problem, they say, well, we have a problem in Burlington, or we have a problem in the state of Vermont, that that's enough. Well, it's not enough, because what one also has to think about is how do we raise the revenue that we need in order to address the problem. One of the phenomenon that has been going on in this country in the last year, and in fact the last number of years, is that the wealthiest people in our country are becoming wealthier. And in fact, recent figures, recent statistics that came out from the federal government, show us that one half of one percent of the population of the United States owns, let me get out and tell you what it owns, that in fact, the one half of one percent of the population owns 35 percent of the wealth in this country, and the wealthiest 10 percent of the population own over 70 percent of the wealth. And the gap between the richest people and the poorer people are growing. It's growing, it's getting worse. And what that means to me is that as I look at the social problems facing our society, and I say, okay, how do we get the money to address those problems? From what part of society should we ask people to pay taxes to address the problems? It seems clear to me that we've got to ask those people who can best afford to pay to contribute to solving the problems rather than going to working people and poor people. To a large degree, the tax system in this country is extremely unfair and that it asks working people and elderly people and poor people to pay too much while large corporations and wealthy people do not pay their fair share. So when we have debates up here on the Board of Aldermen, one of the issues that are always, there's always right out there in the fore, is how do you raise the money? And one of the reasons we have had a lot of controversy over the last six to seven years since I've been mayor is that I have attempted to raise taxes in other than the property tax in more progressive ways. The property tax is a regressive form of taxation. And to a large degree here in Vermont, all of the cities and towns are dependent upon the property tax. There's now a major battle taking place throughout the state in order to have the cities and towns break their dependency on the property tax. In the last four or five years, we have made some success here in Burlington and we'll talk about that as we travel around the city. When the streets are now dug up, it is not the property tax that pays who have to repair them, but in fact the utilities who do the digging. We're now beginning to get a little bit of money from UVM, not enough money. We have a gross receipts tax, which means that when visitors come and eat in our restaurants or stay in the hotel, they are now contributing toward the tax base of the city to helping us provide the services that they need. And we also have a classification system of taxation, which is asking industrial and commercial property to be paying at a higher assessment than just residential property. So we think we're making some progress. We clearly have a long way to go. But as we look at the problems that we face, it is absolutely imperative that we understand how can you raise the revenue in a fair and progressive manner rather than taking the money from working people or poor people and elderly people. And that's an issue that we debate here all the time and that we'll continue to discuss. Okay, we're on our way. The next stop will be, in fact, just the block away from City Hall. And that is the Burlington Free Press, which plays a very, very important role in having, in how the people of this region, not only the city, but the entire region, Northern Vermont, understand what's going on in their community. So we'll have a few words to say about the Free Press. We're on our way. Thank you. Oh, the dollar and a quarter. They raised the rates recently? They raised the rates. They did? Yeah. What was that? I don't know. I didn't even know what to go. I couldn't have made the dollar and a quarter. All right, here we go. There's one in the fall. One. Now a dollar and a quarter. Two. Okay, we're standing in front of the Burlington Free Press building. And when we talk about Burlington and when we talk about the state of Vermont, you have to talk about institutions like the Burlington Free Press, because they play an extremely important role. And when you're a politician, as I am, or when you're in public life, you're very sensitive to that role. Because to a large degree, how people perceive what's happening and what they feel is important is very much influenced by the Burlington Free Press. And an issue that is being examined increasingly around this country is the very, very serious issue of how the media is covering public life. Whether the media is responsive to the people who buy the publications or who watch the television, or rather the people who own the institution, such as the Gannett Company, which owns the Free Press as well as 92 other dailies in USA today. And that issue is true, of course, not only for newspapers and magazines, it's true for television increasingly. And in fact, as we stand here in front of the Free Press today, I think one of the issues that we will be examining, perhaps through a task force, I'm not sure yet, during the course of the year is the role of the media in American society. And the real strong concern that we have, that the media is becoming increasingly gobbled up by multinational corporations, so that there are some media experts who estimate that within the next five or six years, you're going to have maybe a half a dozen gigantic communications corporations that will basically determine what we watch on television here on the radio, read in books, see on television, and so forth. Very, very important issue. The Free Press, the role of a daily newspaper in a community is, as I indicated earlier, they will determine what is the important news. If they decide to run stories and concentrate on an issue, by and large, it becomes the issue that the community is going to be talking about. And I think what we have to look at and analyze is how good a job does the Free Press do. Well, I think in some sense, it does a reasonably good job. It is certainly infinitely better than some of the tabloid publications that exist around this country. Papers that are sensationalists that are concentrating on murders and rapes and fires and violence. The Free Press doesn't emphasize that, and that's good. I have been impressed, I think, by some of the editorial changes that have taken place in the last year. I think the new publisher, Donna Donovan, are some of the new people on their editorial staff are doing a better job in giving a more balanced editorial reporting than I think was formerly the case. I have some concerns about what I perceive to be changes in the format in the paper, in that it is beginning to emulate, it seems to me, a little bit of what USA Today is, which is the National Genet publication, which essentially gives you more color pictures, perhaps shorter stories, easier to understand stories. And I happen to think that if we're living in a democracy in a very complex world, sometimes the stories are not all that easy, and they're gonna be long, and they're gonna be complicated, and that's what a newspaper is gonna have to get out if people are gonna understand what's happening. Does the Free Press report all the news? What is the relationship, in fact, between the advertisers? When you look at a newspaper like the Free Press and you analyze the content, what you find is that much of the content, of course, has nothing to do with news, but it is advertising, it is commercials. It takes advertising from the business community. Does that have any impact on the news reporting? I think the answer is obvious that it does. There are some stories that the Free Press will not be enthusiastic about covering. And that's the case with all media, which is owned by wealthy institutions. But once again, I think during the course of this year, we will be examining the role of media, not just the newspaper, but television, in our community, and perhaps have some suggestions as to how they could be more responsive to the people so that we can, in fact, get a better understanding of what's really happening in our local society. Okay, as I think observers can note, we are now on the Church Street Marketplace in the heart of downtown Burlington. And as mayor of the city and as an elected official, obviously, one of the issues that we deal with all the time, we have in the past and will during the next year, of course, is the vitality of our downtown, and in fact, the whole economic condition of our community. Fortunately, during the last few years, Burlington, and in fact, the entire region, has been doing relatively well economically. In fact, Burlington's unemployment rate for the last many, many months has been one of the lowest in the country. And I think we hovered between two and 3%, and that's good. We have created many, many thousands of new jobs in the city in the last five years. I think a walk and a look at downtown Burlington, this is a Sunday, would show that the business climate here is well, Pine Street is doing very well, the old North End, and North Street is doing well. And that's important. We have a very active economic development office, one of whose functions is to stimulate economic development. And when we talk about economic development and the vitality of downtown, in fact, look at the state. One of the issues clearly that we're going to be dealing with in the next few months is the whole question of pure and mid-mall. And to me, the issue is important, not from a competitive point of view between Williston and Burlington, that is not the issue. The issue that the state of Vermont is going to have to deal with, is from an environmental point of view, whether we want major malls popping up throughout the state of Vermont, which will bring traffic, air pollution, possibly water pollution, and will have negative impacts, not just on Burlington, but other major downtowns. I see it as perhaps the most important environmental issue that the state is going to have to deal with. And it's interesting that it comes about right in the midst of this whole discussion of growth. And that's also an issue that we're going to have to deal with internally here in Burlington. Because on one hand, while we want to make sure that we maintain our economic vitality, on the other hand, we want to be absolutely certain that we maintain the beauty and the quality of life in the city that the people enjoy. We're not going to tear down the entire city, and we're not going to tear down housing, and we're not going to build parking lots all over the place, because it's simply good for business. What we have to do is, on one hand, maintain a strong economic vitality, and on the other hand, maintain a city that people love and are happy to live in. And that's a tough balance. And sometimes, there's a lot of debate as to whether we go too far this way, too far that way. A few years ago, people remember that there were full-page ads being run in the newspaper that we're driving business out of the city of Burlington, full-page ads. And now, we are having a lot of comments, well, we're too pro-development as a city. Well, how do you draw that line? That's an issue that we'll be looking at very strongly in the next few months. What role should the city take in making sure that the development that we have is tasteful development, that there's not too much development, that there's enough to maintain our vitality while maintaining the quality of our life? Very important issue, delicate issue, there'll be differences of opinion. That's an issue you're gonna see a lot of discussion on during the course of this year. Okay. Hi. Okay, we are up on the hill now, and I think people can see that behind us is the Medical Center Hospital of Vermont, and over there on the left is the University of Vermont. And during the course of this last year, there has been a whole lot of discussion, as I think many viewers know, regarding the relationship of the Medical Center Hospital of Vermont to the city of Burlington. I wanna capsulize some of the issues there. They fall basically into two separate categories. The issue that we dwelt on most this year was the relationship from a taxation point of view of the Medical Center to the city of Burlington. The history of that is that during the last five or six years, the city has on repeated occasions asked the Medical Center to provide some financial help in one way or another to the city. The Medical Center is a very, very large institution owning substantial amount of property, having a budget of approximately $120 million a year. In terms of its financial contribution to the city, for the services that it receives, the city receives $0, not one cent. And over the last five or six years, there's been a lot of discussion. And essentially the city has gotten no place. As a result of a recent Supreme Court decision dealing with a medical facility in central Vermont, the city attorney's office in Burlington felt that it was appropriate and right. That the city in fact do away with the tax exempt status of the Medical Center, and in fact send them a full tax bill. And the tax bill amounted to some $2.8 million. The Medical Center opposed that, felt that what we were doing was illegal, or took us to Superior Court. There was a very interesting trial that lasted for about one week. Superior Court Judge Meeker made a decision in which he essentially bought the entire line from the hospital ruled in favor of the hospital, and we are now going to the Supreme Court. This issue of tax exempt hospitals, nonprofit hospitals, is an issue not only of active debate here in the state of Vermont. It is an issue that's being discussed all over the United States now, and in fact in the United States Congress. It is very possible, not yet certain, but very possible that the arguments before the Supreme Court of the state of Vermont in this coming year will be of absolute national significance. In fact, that based on the decision of the Supreme Court, decisions will be made all over the United States of America as to how municipalities deal with tax exempt hospitals. In a nutshell, what are the issues? To my mind, the heart of the issue is, is this institution really a charitable institution which deserves the subsidization, which deserves subsidization from the taxpayers of the city of Burlington? And my answer is from the bottom of my heart is that it is not a charitable institution. You have an institution which is headed by executives who make very high salaries, no different than salaries being made by other corporate executives. You have physicians who work here, who are earning in some instances, I suspect hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars in income. You have an institution in terms of its relationship to poor people, which in fact provides very little help to poor people. About one and a half percent of the total budget of the medical center goes to helping poor people in terms of free care. That in fact is not a lot. When Mary Fletcher originally founded the Mary Fletcher Hospital a hundred years ago, she was very clear that she believed that that hospital should be providing to as great a degree as possible free care to the poor and those people didn't have a lot of money. And for many years in the early part of this hospital's history, 50%, 60% of the care that was being provided at the hospital was free, free. Doctors work for free. That has radically changed now. And I think what you're looking at is in fact an institution which in my view is a very good institution. It's a very good hospital. And we're delighted and proud to have an institution of that quality here. But if we look at it from the point of view of whether or not it is a charitable institution which deserves the subsidy that it is presently receiving from the people of the city, the answer to my mind is absolutely not. Now another issue that concerns me and concerns many people in the state of Vermont is that what you're looking at here is clearly not a Burlington institution. No argument about that. What you have is a statewide facility. It's a facility being used by people from New York state. In fact, more people, I believe we're an equal amount of people from New York state use this institution as from the city of Burlington. Why should one community alone be asked to subsidize it in not the general region? And that's an issue that the legislature will be dealing with. Furthermore, in terms of this particular institution, I have two other additional concerns which have been raised during the course of the year in which I expect will also be discussed by the legislature. Number one is that the decisions, the basic decisions as to the priorities of this hospital, how are they going to be spending their money? Should more of their money go to the visiting nurses association which is now affiliated with the medical center or should more of the money go into other types of programs? Who makes those decisions in terms of expenditures? Well, the Board of Trustees makes those decisions. Well, then the next obvious question is who are the Board of Trustees? Well, the Board of Trustees are basically some of the wealthiest, the most powerful people in our community. Do they necessarily reflect the interest of elderly people, working people, poor people who are having an increasingly difficult time paying their healthcare bills? The answer is I don't think so. What you'd have now is a self-protectuating body where they keep appointing people of their own like. And I think that that's a real problem. There will be a bill in the legislature which will ask that the governor of the state of Vermont sit on that Board of Trustees and I think that that's appropriate, that we have representation from senior citizen groups, that we have representation from the host community. And I think that's the concept that should go on all over the state of Vermont. It is not enough for just a small group of people to be sitting on the Board of Trustees making those decisions. Second of all, right now, if you, a member of the public, wanted to sit in on a Board of Trustees meeting and hear what the discussion was about and maybe add your two cents as to what you thought the priorities are of this hospital. And the reason that that issue is important is that most of the money that we spend in terms of healthcare, and we're conscious of the cost of healthcare because it's zooming upward. Most of the money is spent in hospitals. This is the largest hospital in the state of Vermont, approximately 40% of the revenue spent in healthcare in the state of Vermont is spent right here. They make decisions which affect us all. It seems to me clearly that their Board meetings have got to be open to the public. Right now, they are not. They can shut the door, the media can't come in, the newspapers, television can't come in, the general public can't come in. There will be a bill in the legislature now authorizing that any tax-exempt hospital now have an open door policy where people can observe other discussions that are taking place. So the whole issue of taxation and how the hospital is being run is very, very important. It's been an issue of significant debate and discussion. This last year will be next year as the case goes to the Supreme Court. The other issue of course relevant to this hospital and to all the hospitals and all the physicians in the state of Vermont is the whole issue of affordable healthcare. In my view, the whole issue of healthcare in America is perhaps the single most important domestic issue that we've got to deal with. We have a crisis situation.  To a large degree in our country, healthcare is still being run as a business. If you got the money, you're gonna have the best healthcare perhaps available in the world. If you don't have the money, if you're one of the 15% of the population now that cannot afford any healthcare insurance whatsoever, you're up the creek.  And if you're one of the many people who do have health insurance, you have Blue Cross Blue Shield, you're noticing that the cost of your health insurance is zooming upward. Ultimately, in the next couple of years, there is going to be a debate in this country as to whether healthcare is a right of all of its people because of citizenship or whether in fact it's a privilege that it can primarily be enjoyed by the wealthiest people. That will be an enormous debate. I intend to play a role in it because I believe that we need a national healthcare system to be financed not from Blue Cross Blue Shield revenues, not from Connecticut General, not from Medicaid, not from Medicare, not from out-of-pocket expenses. But ultimately to say that in this country, we've got to join the rest of the world, say that healthcare is a right, that it's gonna be paid for out of progressive national tax sources. We're a wealthy country. And I think if we have a nationally funded healthcare system, ultimately, we will be spending less money than we are right now. For example, in Canada, which has a national healthcare system, their healthcare inflation rate is much less than it is here in the United States. And that's because they have one source of funding where the government can sit down with a medical establishment and say, hey, you can't be raising your rate significantly higher than the cost of inflation. That is not the case here in the United States. Doctors' bills are going up, hospital bills are going up. It's an issue that's gonna need a lot of discussion. We don't have to do it the way Canada does. We should do it our own unique way to deal with our own unique circumstances. But we've got to deal with that issue. So those are the two issues that we'll, I think, continuously discuss during the next couple of years. Number one, tax exempt hospitals in terms of their relationships to local communities. Should the local community be obliged to subsidize it? And number two, the more general question in terms of affordable healthcare in the United States of America and in Vermont. How do we have a healthcare system that all people can participate in without worrying about bankrupting their families in the event of a serious illness? Those are the two issues. We've made a good start this year. I think a lot of people are thinking about those issues. There'll be a lot more discussion during the coming years. Okay, now we've just moved about 50 feet here and behind us is some of the campus of the University of Vermont. And the city's relationship to UVM has also been an issue over the last couple of years. And in some ways, it's a parallel issue to the medical center. There is no question that the University of Vermont has an enormous impact on our community. Both, in many instances, a positive impact in terms of the cultural and intellectual activities which they provide, in some cases, a negative impact. Most noteworthy the fact that the city is obliged to provide many, many hundreds of thousands of dollars of services to the university in terms of police protection, fire protection, and other city services. And like the medical center of Vermont, there is no real payment to the city. Last year, we did negotiate with UVM some payment which will be approximately $50,000, I believe, this year for fire fees. It's a spot. Clearly, we have a long way to go. So I think the issue with UVM, once again, is similar to the medical center in that with University of Vermont, what you clearly have is a statewide and a regional facility. It is not a Burlington facility. Should the people of Burlington be obliged to subsidize the University of Vermont, or is that a responsibility for all of the people in the region, all of the people in the state? It is not a Burlington college. That's the first issue. The second issue, which is a little bit different, and one, excuse me, which interests me, is if you look at the state of Vermont, from an intellectual point of view, and you say, okay, where is the intellectual leadership? Where is the institution that provides that leadership? It should be the University of Vermont. And I think it's a fair discussion to say what role is the university playing in that regard? Is it providing that intellectual leadership? Are they asking the hard questions that they should be asking, or really are they, rather than asking those questions, are they part of the establishment themselves? Who sits on the Board of Trustees of the University of Vermont? And I think if you begin to think about that issue in those ways, you'll find like the Medical Center, by the way, and there seems to be almost the revolving door policy that the people who sit on the Medical Center Board of Trustees end up at the University of Vermont, and very often, they are some of the wealthiest, the most powerful people in the community itself. And I think at a time when tuition is going up, at a time when the state people of the State of Vermont put approximately $25 million a year into the university, I think it's timely to examine what we're getting out of that investment, what role the University of Vermont, the University of Vermont Medical School plays in terms of our state. So I think that's an ongoing discussion, and those are the two separate issues there. And I'm one from a financial and tax point, the view of the relationship, the view of the M to the city, should the city of Burlington alone be subsidizing that institution through tax exempt policy forced on us by the state, and second of all, the intellectual role that the University of Vermont is playing in our community. And I should point out maybe as we leave this area that the viewers will recall that several years ago in Burlington, we placed the question on the ballot, and we said to the people of Burlington, how do you feel about U of the M and the medical center paying 25% in taxes of what they would pay if they were not tax exempt? The people of Burlington voted 60-40 for that policy, but the state legislature refused to allow us to carry it out. Okay, I think you know where we are right now. We're on downtown Burlington's waterfront. We're in fact at the foot of College Street right now. And during the last several years, and during the next several years, there's going to be a lot of discussion and a lot of activity taking place down here. The city's goal is to create a waterfront that can be enjoyed by all of its people. We think we have made some real progress during the last year. Let me just briefly summarize some of the activities that have taken place for a start. The entire waterfront area after a lot of debate over the last several years was finally rezoned and rezoned in such a way that I think it will protect the interests of the people of the city of Burlington indefinitely. Essentially, we are trying to make sure that there will be no development down here, which will basically not allow all of our people to enjoy the waterfront. And that was a major landmark. In the southern part of the city, we have acquired from Mobile Oil Beach some seven acres of beachfront. They were very generous and gave it to us as a gift. Those of you who have been to Perkins Pier lately will note that several oil tanks are down there and the park space hasn't significantly expanded. We have new playground facilities there and that's looking better than it's ever looked before. We've got significant new beachfront property in front of Northgate on the northern end of the city as a result of a swap with North Shore developers. And we're outstanding right now, which is at the foot of College Street. Next year, my next year, you're gonna see a very different area.  And as I think many viewers will recall last March, the people of Burlington voted overwhelmingly for a $2.8 million bond issue, which enabled us to make significant improvements to Burlington's waterfront. For a start, it enabled us to do work to complete the bicycle path. And that in fact will be done by next summer so that we will have a bicycle path running from the mouth of the Winooskeet all the way to South Burlington. And that's something we're proud of. A lot of people are enjoying that. And also we're gonna be able to build the community boat house that I think many of us are very anxious to see. And that's gonna be located right here at the foot of College Street. That is going to be built on a barge. So in fact, at some point in the future, if we wanna move it, we can move it to another location. The barge was purchased in Galveston, Texas. We came here about a month ago. In fact, this week, the Board of Finance will be looking at five or six different designs for the boat house, which will be built right on top of that barge. They'll be making a selection, I believe, this coming Monday. Work will begin immediately after that. And we hope and expect that that community boat house will be ready for public use in the summertime. The goal of all of this activity, obviously, is to change the situation which we have here right now. We have much of the year. We have an extraordinary resource down here in Burlington's Waterfront.  We have the potential to do something extraordinary. We haven't yet done it. We are making progress. More and more people are coming down to the bicycle path, coming down and using the bicycle path along the waterfront using Perkins Pier. So we're making real progress and I think the community boat house will be a significant step forward. While we're on the waterfront, obviously, while we're down here, it's necessary to talk about the pollution of the lake and the work that we're doing on that. The people who have lived in Burlington or lived in this region, for any length of time, they know that there has been a problem here which has existed for decades. And that is that when we have heavy rainfalls, when we have real downpours, our wastewater plants are unable to deal with the problem. And what we have is a combined sewer overflow problem in which the stormwater mixes with our sanitary waste and it goes directly with no treatment whatsoever right into the lake. And last summer, as many people recall, it was necessary for health reasons to close down our city beaches on a number of occasions. We have spent a considerable amount of time and energy negotiating with the state of Vermont to work out a financial arrangement by which once and for all this problem will be dealt with. What we have come up with is a $52 million plan which in fact makes it the single largest, single most expensive and significant environmental protection program in the history of the state of Vermont. We are, as the legislature convenes in the next couple of weeks, we will be working as hard as we can to make certain that we have, that the legislature approves this program. We see it as enormously significant, not just the Burlington, but everybody who enjoys the lake. And my hope is that it will be passed. We have already lined up next year, approximately $10 million worth of work in the old North End and the new North End in terms of sewer separation. And the rest of the work will proceed as quickly as we can and we would hope that within three or four years basically the problem of the lake pollution will be over with once and for all. And that's something that we'll all be very proud of. So I think in terms of the issues that are facing the state, that's probably the most important. And it affects obviously how we enjoy this lake. So to conclude the issue down here, we are making progress next year at this particular location. You'll see this area very, very different. And we hope that next summer we'll be having hundreds, if not thousands of people coming down, renting inexpensive row boats and canoes and paddle boats, a sailboat right down here. There is no place right now.  Also during the winter time is people perhaps do cross country skiing along the bicycle path. This will be a place that people will be able to get some hot chocolate, warm up. And we look forward to that. So we think that in the last year we have made some significant progress. Next year I think you'll see some tangible results in terms of the completion of the bicycle path and the construction of the community boat house. We are now standing in front of the way station here in Brilinkan, which is an emergency shelter which on any given night might have 30 or 40 residents staying here. People who basically cannot afford permanent housing. And standing here brings two things to mind. Number one, of course the housing crisis which exists throughout the country, throughout our state and in our own city in terms of affordable housing. And what is going on is that we are seeing all over America expensive housing being built because there are certain people who have enough money to buy expensive housing and yet we're not seeing affordable housing being built. The immediate reason, the most significant reason as to why we have approximately 3 million homeless people in the United States right now and shelters like this all over the country is essentially the Reagan administration which has cut back on federal aid to housing, to low income housing by about 60 or 70%. And the simple fact is that you need a subsidization to build low income housing and affordable housing. You can't go through the market economy and build that because it will simply be too expensive and people aren't gonna have the income to pay for it. Under the Reagan administration we've seen the cuts and the immediate results are that 3 million people are now sleeping out on the streets. And the second issue, well in terms of housing we have a very serious housing problem here in Brilinkan and throughout the county. Again in terms of affordable housing. I am proud of what we have attempted to do here in Brilinkan, not only doing our best in putting significant sums of money into emergency housing but have tried very hard and with good success in getting the limited amount for federal grants that are available. We have secured not one but two housing development grants. One of them has gone to build the South Meadows Project. Another one will go into building, I believe 80 units of affordable housing off Riverside Avenue. We've also received the federal grant which will significantly upgrade the low income housing projects at Franklin Square and Riverside that we have in the city of Brilink. And also we have created what we think is almost a unique program nationally being the Burlington Community Land Trust program by which we will be able to maintain dozens and dozens eventually of housing units at affordable level. Housing essentially will be taken off to the speculative market and kept affordable to working families and low income families. I think we are attempting to do our best. We have passed some good tenant legislation protecting tenants in Brilinkan. We've got a long way to go. The federal government has a long way to go and the state of Vermont has a long way to go. But even getting off of the issue of housing for a moment, I think standing here in front of the emergency shelter makes us think a little bit about national priorities and why it is that in a nation which has the resources that we have, we have to have emergency shelters while we have to have people sleeping out on the street. At a time in fact during the last year when the number of billionaires has doubled, okay? So when we think about emergency shelters and we think about sleeping out on the street, we should also remember that the wealthiest people in this country are becoming richer that we have doubled the number of billionaires which exist during the last year. Something is quite wrong about the sense of priorities in this country, about whether or not we're really creating two nations, one for the very rich and one for the very poor or whether we're going to get our act together and try to create a society and a nation in which every man and every woman and every child has the right to live decently and we're not doing that right now. As we conclude the show, I think there's perhaps the last thought that I have is that in some ways, I think we are making progress as a nation and I think last month in seeing the Soviet Union and the United States beginning to come together to sit down and talk as rational institutions, rational dialogue in trying to do something about doing away with the one trillion dollars a year which this world is presently spending on weaponry, on ways to kill each other through nuclear weapons or chemical warfare and the superpowers are at least now beginning to sit down, beginning to get rid of some of the nuclear weapons in Europe, that is a major step forward and I think as the year comes to a close, maybe that's the point that we can look back on the last year with perhaps the most joy and the most gratitude is that maybe just maybe a world which seemed to be heading toward nuclear destruction, toward more and more expenditures for weapons of destruction is now beginning to gain an element of sanity and understanding that we can do a lot better. We have a lot better ways to spend money in this country, okay? As we stand here in front of an emergency shelter for homeless people, we can do a lot better with our money than spending more of it on nuclear weaponry and chemical gas, chemical warfare and of course, so can the Soviet Union whose economy is also in horrendous condition. The year is coming to a close, I think it's been a good year for Berlin and it's certainly been an exciting year. A lot of things on the agenda for next year we'll be looking at the issue of daycare, affirmative action for women in city employment, a dozen other important issues. My hope is that more and more people will participate in local government, we need as much help as we can get, we need the diversity of ideas that are out there. So let me simply conclude this program and this is the last program of the year 1987 by wishing all of our viewers a very happy holiday season and a very happy new year to come and we look forward to being with you on many occasions next year. Thank you.


I'm Ken Narayan. Many thanks for being with us. You're the former governor of West Bengal. A question really on South Asia. How do you see relations between India and Pakistan? How can you resolve this history of antipathy or antagonism? That's a very difficult question. But let me get it straight. I don't think that India and Pakistan are on the verge of a conflict or there's any kind of a threat of a nuclear sort of exchange between the two countries. There are, I think, perceptions and difficulties. And as we just heard a few minutes ago during the discussion, that between neighbors, particularly when in our case we were one nation, there are certain issues that have come up as a result of partition. I think time is a great healer. And I would say that the degree of antagonism that exists is much less today than what it is. I've been around for a very long time. So I can speak not really from the sense of history, but from my own personal knowledge that I think that we are at a much better position today than what we were even 10 or 15 years ago. So the one short answer to the question would be saying that relations are not very satisfactory. But I would say the degree of hostility has come down. And I think both sides need to work a little more. Is that because of the relationship between Nawaz Sharif and Mr. Modi? Or is it because the army in Pakistan now has a different attitude? We generally believe that Mr. Nawaz Sharif is interested in improving relations with India. And it's not only with Mr. Modi, but Nawaz Sharif has been Prime Minister three times. And I was around when he was very, we had a Prime Minister by my name Mr. Chandrasekhar. I was then the head of intelligence and I've seen the relationship between Nawaz Sharif and Chandrasekhar. And even then he was very, very forthcoming about trying to build relations. So I think having Nawaz Sharif has been probably a good aspect as far as India-Pakistan relations are concerned. Mr. Modi, like, I mean, his predecessor, Mr. Manvon Singh, I think is wedded to the idea of improving India-Pakistan relations. So I think what I would call the relationship has certain important personalities involved. Yes, we always in India feel that the Pakistan army is an obstacle to better relations. And the stronger the army becomes, I think we in India perceive that as less of a chance of a resolution. I mean, does an organization such as the World Policy Conference, does this have any sort of role to play in improving geopolitical relations? I think, I mean, I tend to fair amount of international conferences. And I think what distinguishes the World Policy Conference from most of them is, I think one, I think they get some of the best people to be present. Most of them are thinkers and therefore they bring to mind, I think, a great deal of insights as to how to deal with problems. Today, for instance, I mean, we found there were no harsh words exchanged. You know, I think there are a lot of things that were said today about East Asia, which I think I'm going to take back. And if I have an opportunity, pass it back to the government saying, this is how it appears that the winds are blowing in East Asia. And I think we, of course, have problems with China of a certain kind. Primarily, I think there are civilizational issues rather than territorial. But I was for nearly six years the special representative for modern talks with China. And it's fascinating to understand how the Chinese mind, 10,000 years of civilization with India's 5,000 work. So I think all this. And the WPC provides, I think, maybe one of the best forms where you can get an exchange of idea and take back something. Otherwise, a lot of people spout things, but we don't have the option to take them back. Thank you so much, Governor. Thank you.


Everybody Matt here for late in sports cards ripping 2022 Panini national treasures baseball hobby four box full-case break number 42 Random teams here. We go We'll randomize four times. Good luck One two three and four Joseph B down to Michael T and four times on the teams one two Three and four debacks down to Rockies All right, we have Joseph B D-backs Richard L Mariners Nathan Y Brewers Lowe H Pirates Joseph S twins Edward P Giants Michael S Marlins Colby C nationals Joseph D Tigers Bob A Padres Keith J A's and Orioles Chad C Astros Richard L Rangers Joseph S Yankees Jason a blue J's Jonathan B Reds Nathan Y Mets Dain B White Sox Christopher C Royals Tom C Cubs Craig M Rays Julian T Phillies Christopher C Braves Joshua B Red Sox Francis M Cardinals John B Angels Christopher L Dodgers Joseph S Guardians and Michael T Rockies All right post those results and we'll get this started. Here comes your link All right 14 to go on 2020 Bowman jumbo and 2020 Bowman draft super jumbo two box mixer number nine random teams That is scheduled next But we're down to five and seven on select football. So if we still have a ways to go on Bowman jumbo after this break There was a Bowman jumbo and draft super jumbo Then moves to the left up Tigers colossal jumbo patch to 25 Tariq Scoobal A's Jersey to 99 Paul Blackburn. Look at this one Rangers three of three partial tag Nolan Ryan Nice one Rangers Yankees Otto to 99 Brendan Beck Blue J's Otto to 99 Alec Manoa Mariners Otto to 64 Evan White twins, that's rookie patch Otto to 49 Royce Lewis Nice one Minnesota C's Phillies Jersey Otto to 99 Alec Bum Bash brother Rangers legendary material signatures five of five Pudge Rodriguez Nice box for the Rangers Royals rookie Otto to 25 John Heasley I think it's because I don't know if his favorite player was Carlton Fisk, but He's a catcher Carlton Fisk was a catcher and Carlton Fisk nickname was Pudge Nice patch here jumbo patch to 10 Dan Vogelbach. That's a Mariners patch, but that's a Metz card nine of 10 Yankees Jersey to 49 Bernie Williams This is one of one printing plate bat relic Roger Maris that Roger Maris. Yeah, Roger Maris one of one for the Yankees. Nice one of one printing plate bat relic is Angels Jersey Otto to 99 Landon Marceau Yankees again, this is Otto to 74 Michael King American autographs. This is Dodgers to 25 Trevor Bauer cool-looking card braves rookie jumbo patch Otto to 49 Bryce Elder twins It's to 49 Otto Tony Oliva Down to 13 on that bowman mixer 13 to go. Here's a link That's one box each of 2020 bowman jumbo and 2020 bowman draft super jumbo 14 to go 13 i'm sorry 13 to go Giants to 40 jumbo material signature book Mike just Mike Yastremsky box number three big cut Otto in this one Rangers Jersey to 49 Mitch Garber and Rays silhouette jumbo jersey to 99 Shane Boz. It's rookie jumbo jersey Cardinals Jersey to 99 Albert Pujols Padres patch Otto to 10 Jorge Alfaro Angels Jersey Otto to 99 Chris Rodriguez This is twins die-cut material signatures patch Otto to 25 Alex Kiriloff Giants rookie patch Otto to 49 Camilo Deval Red Sox holofame signatures to 49 David Ortiz You go Boston nice poppy 42 of 49 This is Mets rookie jumper rookie signature jumbo material book four of 10 Patrick Maseca Ice patch on that base to 99 treasured stats last box box of the case Down to 12 on the uh bowman Jumbo and draft super jumbo 2020 Um, that's two box mixer the top we have Phillies one of one majestic patch Francisco Morales there you go Phillies Grats on the one of one Dodgers Jersey to 99 Dustin May Astros Jersey to 99 Alex Bregman Rangers Otto to 64 Kohai Arihara and A's Otto to 25 Brent Honeywell It's like a partial Honeywell thumbprint there Fingerprint a little ink on it. That is Orioles Treasure material patch Trey Mancini This is Angels Rookie patch Otto to 99 Reed Detmer's nice four color patch on the rpa Mariners That is apprentice ink Otto to 99 Julio Rod Reguez on card Congrats Seattle That's Richard L with the Mariners That is holofame materials. Is this cubs? Yep cubs that is Gabby Hartnett Class of 1955 On the back cubs field pass Otto to 99 Kyle Hendricks Just a second here and we're going to do a recap Jersey 11 to 99 Dustin May for the Dodgers Astros Jersey to 99 Alex Bregman This is Rangers Jersey to 49 Mitch Garver Rays rookie silhouette jumbo Jersey to 99. That's rookie Shane Boz Cardinals Jersey to 99 Albert Pujols That is red white and blue Metz Jembo patch 9 of 10 Dan Vogelbach Yankees one-of-one printing plate bat relic Roger Maris Yankees Jersey 26 of 49 Bernie Williams Rangers the partial tag That is three of three Nolan Ryan A's Jersey to 99 Paul Blackburn Tigers jumbo Jersey to 25 Tariq Scoobal Otto's cubs to 99 Kyle Hendricks A's to 25 Brent Honeywell red socks Otto to 49 David Ortiz Dodgers American autographs to 25 Trevor Bauer Twins Otto to 49 Tony Oliva Royals rookie Otto to 25 John Heasley Blue jays Otto to 99 Alec Minoa Otto's Orioles patch Otto 8 of 25 Trey Mancini Angels love this patch. That's rookie patch Otto 74 of 99 read Detmer's Rangers Otto 32 of 64 Kohei Arihara Twins Dicut patch Otto to 25 Alex Kiroloff Angels Jersey Otto 59 of 99 Chris Rodriguez Giants rookie patch Otto to 49 Camilo Deval This is Padres patch Otto 9 of 10 Jorge Alfaro Braves rookie patch Otto 29 of 49 Bryce Elder Angels Jersey Otto 56 of 99 Landon Marceau Yankees Otto 58 of 74 Michael King Mariners Otto 3 of 64 Evan White Twins rookie patch Otto 22 of 49 Royce Lewis Phillies Dicut Jersey Otto to 99 Alec Bohm Yankees Jersey Otto to 99 Brendan Beck We had Mel Ott. This is Giants treasured stats to 99 Rangers legendary material signatures five of five Pudge Rodriguez This is Cubs Hall of Fame materials 9 of 49 Gabby Hartnett This one's gonna be in a case here in just a second. That was Giants Jersey Otto book Mikey Strimsky That was number to 49 We hadn't oh to 40. We had Mets rookie Jump or rookie signature jumbo materials book four of 10 Patrick Maseca Phillies colossal majestic patch one of one Francisco Morales And mariners Otto 74 of 99 Julio Rodriguez That'll do it for the break. Thank you everybody. We have more breaks coming up


I'm Dave Gray, and this is the Service Design Show. I got sick of hearing it honestly, and that's why I developed this tool with Alex Osterwalder called the Culture Map, is I felt that organizations needed a better way, better tools, better practices, better understanding of what is culture, what does it mean, how does it come to be, and how does it come to be changed, how does it come to, how does it evolve, and how can we become more intentional about the culture in the organization? What if you had a chief culture officer, what would that person's job be? What would be measured? How would you measure the success of that job? How would you, what are the KPIs of the chief culture officer is measured on? There is insight on that, because I think this is really essential.