We are live. I'm Anthony dream Johnson, president dream co-founder of the red man group founder of 21 studios and the 21 convention and the 22 convention here today with episode number 94 of the red man group. Whoa. Sorry, I had audio pop there. Anyway, joining me on today's episode is Steve, the Dean Williams from the man mindset.com. He's also an alumni speaker of the 21 convention three times over and I'll be speaking this coming year here in 2020 at 22 convention and the 21 convention, the Patriarch edition. Tickets to both are currently half off. Also joining me today is Ken Curry, marriage and family therapist and you can find him at solid man.com. He's also the author of several books, including awakening the internal and embracing the void. You guys have seen him on the show before and he'll be speaking at the 21 convention Patriarch edition coming up as well here, April 30th, May 3rd and Orlando, Florida. Gentlemen, thanks for joining me on today's show. Hey, you bet. You bet, Anthony. Hell yeah. So today's episode is titled strength and honor and I wanted to talk about we've talked about this once before in the show is a while ago, but it's a little bit different context. But strength through adversity is men. I think, you know, resilience and toughness and tenacity, which I think are very masculine traits and virtues like women can have this too. Like no doubt some of the things they go through in life are difficult pregnancy and childbirth or just one example of that. But as men, we go through this, I think a lot more and it's expected a lot more of us and it can it can help us become better men and stronger men. You know, I had Socrates was over here a few weeks ago, we're talking about 2019 and what would come in 2020 and was before this whole media explosion, all that stuff. And me and him were just having a drink, smoking, you know, some pipes out front and we were joking and he said that, you know, I'm being forged in fire, forged by fire. And I thought that was really cool. And I've, he's not being hyperbolic either, like he really means that and I could feel that, you know, going what I go through with the business over the years, which I've been doing that for 13 years. And that's just one form I think of strength and tenacity and testing go through as a man can be that, you know, aspect of your life. Other men go through this and other other endeavors, whether it's marriage and family stuff or it's, you know, art, all kinds of things you can go through being in the military, for example. So it's kind of one open floor and just discuss what you guys have been through as men and the adversity you've been through and what's made you mentally like, for example, Ken, with your stuff, what inspired you to write these books? This is only two of, I think you have like three or four books. Yeah, I do actually have them right here. I have the new, the new covers on it as well. I got them right here. So those are the four of them. So yeah. Yeah. So you're asking what, what inspired me? Yeah, yeah, I mean, you've been a marriage and family therapist for a couple of decades now, I believe. Not quite, but yes, it's been a, it's been a good goal of it. So I think the marriage and family thing, it actually goes back to my own adversity as a, as a teenager, that my parents went through a pretty rough divorce. And as I was going through that, one of the things that, that I really felt passionate about, I wanted to do it right myself.  And so that was kind of, I had that passion as a young man. And so I really pursued a lot of education in that direction. My parents eventually got a divorce right about the time I was graduating high school, first year of college, right in that, in that time. And so, I mean, that's, that's part of my story about the difficulty that I went through and kind of what really drove me into pursuing this as a career. And so, and then on the other side of it, the books that I'm writing and everything is more of a pursuit and passion of manhood, masculinity, and that because it was a really significant thing that I began to notice as I, as I was doing work with couples. And with men is just, there's a massive, massive thing going on as far as what do you call it, deficit with, with men feeling strong and feeling internally, haven't, yeah, that internal strength and internal health. And, and, and I was really noticing in my, in myself that it was something that was a really significant internal struggle for me. How do I move through life with a really strong fashion? I knew that I was a good man, but I didn't believe it. And all the messages that I was getting was the opposite. Yeah.  Oh my gosh, well, the toxic thing is fairly recent. But this is like, um, gosh, this is, you know, 20, 30 years ago that this was really going on. So this, this, everything we're talking about has been going on for a long, long time where men have really felt like their second class or their, or something is toxic or deficient or, um, yeah, you should apologize for the man and dude, I think, I think that's probably the most profound thing. Being apologetic for, for being, uh, strong or apologetic for taking up space or apologetic for breathing air for being born as a man is what it seems like. It sure does seem like it.  Um, and so being able to go through my own personal journey was really significant. And then being able to now, um, help and guide other men through that journey is, is there, is a really strong passion of mine. So that's what I'm writing about. And that's what the groups that I have in my own therapeutic practice is all about is helping men become strong, having a really strong identity, uh, believing the true narrative about manhood, masculinity, about their own internal personal identity. Um, it's a, obviously a really big, uh, part of my own journey. Um, but also being able to then help other men do this, um, is that, that's, that's really what I've been doing. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love it, man. You articulated so well, too. Thanks. Steve, uh, you know, you've done the man mindset for a long time. You've been on air, you've been on air doing your thing for like over 20 years, I think. Well, 30, I mean, yeah, and since they hit 20, 2020 has been 30. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. That's wild, man. I didn't realize it was so long, Steve. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, um, yeah, well, I just, I've been, uh, I guess, uh, just staying in my lane, so to speak, man, just going eyes forward. But, um, you know, for me, I was just the thing that, uh, and I'm sure Ken, you can understand. Uh, you know, I came from a time before the internet. So yeah, yeah, yeah, that was, to me, that was one of the greatest life lessons ever because you had to be competitive back. And, you know, I always talk about field day, you know, in high school, I mean, elementary, I don't even know if they do that anymore. They had a thing called field day at the end of the year where there was only a blue ribbon, a white ribbon and a red ribbon. And, and, and there was nothing, there was no, uh, participation trophies. There was nothing. Yeah.  So those, those were things that I think that, uh, helped cultivate, you know, how I used to, how I think and all that other stuff. Whereas for a lot of young men today, um, we're, we're in a time of just images, you know, we're in a time of quick fixes.  I mean, if you want food, you can hit a button. You know, everything is coming to these young men and they don't see the, that that's not life, you know, and when they are used to doing that kind of stuff. Anthony and Ken, they, they, they assume that life is the same way, you know, they go through their whole, you know, from elementary school all the way to high school, thinking that life is just hitting a button. Everything is going to come to you. Everybody's going to like you. Everybody's going to be your friend. And then when they get outside, that get outside those doors, maybe because mom now again, some more than likely mom who coddles them, who doesn't set boundaries, is not clear with them. And sometimes dad, just because dad is in the house doesn't mean he's dad. So, you know, you have these things.   So, but life doesn't care about us. And out there, out those doors is all about it's competitive. It's, it's, it's either hunt or be hunted in the world doesn't owe us anything. And it's important that these young boys know that they've got to understand that, you know, you're going to, you're going to get knocked down.  That's part of the learning process. And I think what's happening nowadays, people are running, running away from the learning process. They think the rejections and getting knocked down and kicked down and beat up are bad things where I like great things. I, I think, I think the way to become excellent and to learn more about yourself is to get knocked down, beat up and drag through the mud because you'll then learn more about yourself. Instead of going down the current, which is easy running away, making excuses, being a victim, blaming and things like that. So, uh, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a dramatic change from where I grew up to what I see today. But it's just trying to get these young men to see that, yes, take notes, but if you're just taking notes and you're not doing anything, you're just burning, you're just wasting paper, you know, that kind of stuff, man. Yeah, Steve, I got to tag on to that. And I agree, man, that, well, I'll say this, I grew with at least part of it that at the end there getting knocked down is great. Getting dragged through the mud as well as knocking people down. Yes.  I know it's big in Texas too. And I had a lot of fun, man. I loved hitting people. I love getting hit, uh, you know, going through all that stuff. And it was a fight, especially like not even, you know, game time was one thing, but practice, you know, throughout the week, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday throughout the whole week. Uh, even in Florida, we had, um, during the summertime before school started, we had two days at the end. Right. Which were like, which were out loud in the county for, I think a while, because I think someone died, uh, like in the late nineties or something in my county. Because in Florida, you do two days.   But that was a lot of fun. And those are very formative years for me. And I think that was like, and that was just before starting the company. That was, you know, the 21 convention that we do now, that was maybe, you know, two, three years before I started it. And that level of physical tenacity, I think is played out and how I operate as an entrepreneur and as a man. And it was very healthy. And I'm glad I went through that.  Sometimes the parents shelter them from, you know, contact sports and stuff like that.  I mean, I still have a, I have a knee issue to this day from Apple and football. I dislocated it five times.  Shit happens. But life goes on. And, you know, I've even, I've even asked you on that, you know, because that's a, that's like a lifelong thing I have to deal with. Was it worth it playing football, growing up in the struggle of doing that? And the two a day is in the practice and the hitting and the, you know, the going through the mud. Absolutely. Those are some of the most enjoyable years of my life in terms of like actual fun and is running into people full speed and going through that and developing the early stages of being becoming a stronger man and growing up into a man. See, I think it's, I think it's fantastic getting hit and, you know, getting knocked around and football, we call it a get in your bell rung. Yeah, right. You get, yeah, you get hit so hard, your ears would be ringing for a few minutes and you'd be like dizzy. That's, that's your concussion right there. Yeah, it probably, it probably is.  I slightly did. I was born 1988. So I remember when I was very young, there was no internet. And our first computer and all that, you know, grown up in the nineties. And so my generation was the first, I was, I think, seeing the transition from the generation and the culture you guys grew up in into this participation trophy culture, which was just getting started when I was growing up, like the late nineties and stuff. So I still had, I think a lot of, I think I had a pretty different childhood than kids do now, the nineties versus now where it's this Instagram, I can't even imagine having Instagram in school and stuff as a kid, we didn't even have or the device in your hand. The device is like, it's sanity, insanity. Yeah. Yeah, it was a big deal to have a cell phone when I was a kid. If you had one in high school, like almost no one did until the end. Right, right. Yeah, it's not been not been that long ago. Yeah, that's a radical change. Yeah. And I think it's, and it's not for a lot of kids, it's not good, especially if they have weak fathers and weak parents. There's no oversight or discipline. They call them, you know, tablet toddlers, I think when they're really young, it's disturbing to see that. Yeah, you're calling it disturbing. It's like, we will have yet to see what the outcome is going to be on that. It's, it's, uh, we don't know what kind of human beings are being produced because of this, but it's going to be something. I don't know if it's going to be, yeah, we'll see what happens, how unhealthy it's been or how people turn out, but we're going to find out rather quickly. Yep. Yeah. And I think, uh, I mean, it's easy to doomsday it like the tablet toddlers and we're all, we're all doomed, we're all going to die. I mean, there could be some truth to this that it's going to turn out really bad for these kids, uh, grown up like that and these weak fathers and this feminized culture and men are toxic and all this, but maybe let's hope for Gen Z. I mean, with 22 con, I hope that we can influence these young women to be better and make better choices and not screw up their lives. And same thing for the young men, maybe these men, yeah, maybe these young men just end up watching. That's what I hope. Uh, they just end up going on YouTube and finding the man is fair in our content and what we do. Yep. And they make their lives a lot better and they turn it around. Yeah. And I think what you're talking about, especially, you know, Steve, you kind of pushed in on this, the whole thing of when you guys are talking about football, it's like, uh, um, that's just one context in which, um, young men are able to move forward and be, I call it the, uh, it's probably one of the only initiation processes that we have in the United States or in the West is, is sports. So no matter what sport it is, you're able to move into this thing, do something that's very difficult, it's rough. You find out how your body can do more than you ever imagined. You can take a hit more than you ever imagined. You find out more about yourself. Um, and that's the initiation process is going through a really difficult time and finding out on the other side, Hey, I got what it takes. I can do this. I can handle it. And that's a really powerful part of growth. And if we're sitting here doing the thing where we're buffering kids or young men, especially from difficulty, and, um, they're not going to learn that, that they got what it takes that they are strong as hell that they're, that they're not so damn fragile. Um, and that's what we need to be able to do. And who knows where young men are going to be learning this, but they have to find it out. Otherwise they're just not going to be really strong, good men. Yeah. Yeah, they're going to need tickets to the Twin Onc conventions, what they're going to need. That's what I said. That's what I say to the single moms, uh, that they raise these weak children. Uh, you know, it's part of, if you don't have a father in the life, this is part of what happens. They don't have a masculine role model. Yeah. Uh, women cannot be fathers. Sorry, you're born as a woman. You're going to be a mother and that's it as a parent and trying to play father, I think we've talked about this before, but it's, it's not good. And you can't do it. You shouldn't do it. But yeah, so with the football thing, I really think that I've thought about this a lot and I've even written blogs about it a long time ago, but that formative year, those formative years in my life and that kind of initiation process to becoming a man, team sports, I was like, you know, it's like a, it's like a battle, basically, you know, football game that really prepped me for becoming an entrepreneur, uh, being an entrepreneur is tough as nails. Elon Musk has described it as eating glass and I've, I heard that a couple of years ago from him and a speech he gave and I was like, yep. I think that's about right. I think eating the glass is the easy part.  I mean, hey, that's, that's part of life of entrepreneurship, but yeah. And I think what's interesting too is that as I've, you know, I was, you know, 14, 15, 16 playing football, 17, and then I started the company at late, late 17, uh, almost 18. And I really think that those kind of that, you know, ritual process, initiation, the challenging myself, seeing that I did have what it takes improving that in real life, getting up off the ground, hitting someone again or whatever. That actually has been an incremental, uh, my life has been incremental. It's very interesting to see that my life has been incremental looking back on it. Uh, challenge after challenge was slightly more difficult than the previous one led to the business and led to more conventions and international conventions for 21 in Europe and now America and then Australia. And now we're doing one for women and, and doing one for fathers and this and that. And there's ups and sometimes the business is just roaring.   And it's, it's fascinating because they think in this, I was asked by that board pandas site, they had like 15 million followers, like, uh, how are you able to withstand, you know, so many insults on the internet? And for me, it's like a walk on the park because even though it's tremendous right now because it's so much media attention, but I've been going through this on the internet for a long time. And for me, it's like, what else is new? You know, the volume is higher now than usual. And the intensity and, you know, the nastiness, but it's just the same thing. It's, you know, people trying to. Anthony, that, that Anthony, that's you, you've experienced something on a lesser scale, knowing that you're able to handle it on a larger scale. And that's kind of how the, how initiation processes move forward. And, and it's really important in the life of a man.  I was kind of talking about a difficulty when I was a kid with my parents divorce and, and then moving through that, I was also really big in athletics as well. And that's a really big thing to teach you about, hey, you can handle it. When did you play it? I'm kind of curious. Let's see. Well, I got, I lettered in four sports in high school, football, basketball, baseball, track. And, and, and at Washington State University, I rode for a year on the rowing crew. So that was easily probably my favorite sport that I ever did was rowing as, and that was, that was rough. That's, that's a tough sport, man. There's a lot of fun, a lot of fun. We actually rode on the, on the Snake River at Washington State, which was so cool, freaking cool. Amazing. And so that was for the, that was the pack 10 back then. And I was on the JV boat, almost made the varsity boat, but that was a good time. So, but what I, what I'm saying is, is that as we go through life, I mean, Anthony, you're talking about your entrepreneurialism being your initiation into finding out if you have what it takes or not, or finding out who the hell you are and, and what kind of stuff that you're made of. And, and being able to face, face difficulty, facing obstacles. Good book is, The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday. It really talks about this. I've heard of it. My book, yeah, my book, Embracing the Void talks about this. You have to embrace it. You have to face it. You know, the void is the thing that is the difficulties and adversity and things that are uncertain, even emptiness when I'm not getting what I need. Or, or even to the point of death. Death is the, the intense, most intense void that we all face. You know, and how, how are we ever going to know that I can handle these situations that are going on, except by going through the really difficult things and, and facing it and embracing it, saying, you guys both were talking about, you know, playing around with this and having fun with it and being dragged through the, Steve, you're talking about dragging through the mud is a fun thing.  You know, nobody knows this stuff that yes, the, that is the way into, into becoming a really strong man. I have to face adversity. I have to face the obstacles. I have to go through it. The only way is through. I can't go around it. And we do everything we can to go around and, and, um, avoid the void, so to speak, or, or to keep ourselves from facing any kind of adversity. Um, yeah. Yeah. That was, uh, that was something that I loved the most when I was small. I was just so competitive. I don't care if it was paper football. I don't. Whatever it was, I, that is so awesome. Yeah, but we played basketball, throw up tackle. I don't care what it was. I wanted to win. And when I didn't win, it was just a taste I had. It was, I, I came to, it was just that taste in my mouth saying, you know what? I'm not satisfied. I don't like being second. And, and I don't mind losing. I don't, you know, that, I don't mind the defeats and the losses and stuff like that. Matter of fact, I like the losses more than I like to wins because when I win at something, then sometimes you can get complacent.  You're like, well, I don't have, there's nowhere else to go.  And, and something that Anthony was talking about was, you know, he's getting a lot of flack from, you know, was, was, was crazy to me. I can understand the flack he's getting from women, but the flack he's getting from men is the thing that really pisses me off because the men are just giving the flack because they're trying to get the women on the back end. But that's here. No, there, but regardless of the flack that he's getting in, and this is why I always tell God, look, everybody is allowed to think the way they want to think. It's the stories that we believe.  You can hate me for how short I am. It's none of my business how you feel unless I allow it to take hold of me. And that was a thing. You know, I wasn't the tallest guy, but I was quick.   And if you cannot make the team, you can't get mad at the coach. You can't get mad at the football equipment guy. You can't get mad at all these things. You just got to sit back and assess things and look at how things are and then start making the proper adjustments. That's why, like I said, I love the challenges. It is great going into, I mean, Anthony, it's like, shouldn't you get that adrenaline rush when you have all those women so mad at you? They just, they just, they're sending you all these things. And the worst part is when you don't reply, it makes them even more mad because they're like, hey, you're not paying attention to me. They don't get that Elliott Hulse figured it out a while ago. He asked me at his grounding camp. I went to up in New York. He's like, what did he ask me?  That is as grounded. It was like a convention he had, but it was more like outdoors. It wasn't like a conference. And he asked me, it was like, do you enjoy, do you love being hated or something like that? And I didn't even know how to, I was like, I told him about it. I was like, I don't know because I had never, it had never even occurred to me to ask that kind of question to myself, do I enjoy that? And so I thought about it over the next couple of days and whatnot. And obviously it's been a while now that was like, I don't know, six months ago or something. And the answer is, yeah, I love it. I think it's great because it's fuel. Exactly like Steve is saying there's always women hating on me. I mean, number one, it's attention to fuel for the business. They're just driving. They're, they're unhinged and out and they're outraged and they don't have an argument. If they had a good argument and they could reasonably debate it and justify why they're angry, that would be different. But they can't. And it's even worse for the Vichy males.  Everyone sees it but them. Any guy with games sees it. All the women see it are 99% of them.  But yeah, so they, I call it, there's a meme actually and it's like this old Power Rangers meme from like that, that show in the 90s.  And that's what they're doing. And they're feeding, they're feeding me all this attention when someone is pumping into the business and it's making it bigger and better. And then, you know, it's just, it's encouraging actually in a way. It's, for me, it's a signal. Like one of my favorite designers and entrepreneurs, I think his name is pronounced Hartmut Eislinger. He's a German, designer. He owns Frog Design, I think it's called. And he's actually responsible for the early, Snow White, I think it's called Apple Design, like the late 80s, early 90s Apple products. He was, you know, he worked with Steve Jobs and all those guys back on the day. And he actually has, in his book, Keep It Simple, I think it's a title. He talks about when he puts out a product in an idea, if it doesn't get hated by like 90% of people, this is what he wrote. If it doesn't get hated, vigorously, by like 90% of the people he shows it to that don't know anything about it. He's trying to get like a blind, you know, response to it. He doesn't do it. He wants them to hate it because it's a, it's just a good signal, I think it's like you're on the right track. Like anything in life we're doing that's going to have high value and high reward is going to have probably a lot of risk and it's going to be difficult. It's going to be a challenge. And then the challenge, of course, is the way. So it's like a very good signal. So I'm loving the feedback. You know, I think, I think Patriarch is the reason it didn't. It wasn't taken as seriously as it should be. But this new 22 convention for women is being taken seriously. And it's getting a lot of flack and a lot of pushback and none, almost virtually none of it is even intelligent.  It's funny.  And all this that was pretty funny. I was like, Hey, he's got a point. That is a fact. That is a fact. Yeah. So it's a good thing. It's part of it's part of it's part of what I love about being an entrepreneur. No hate on everyone also secure. I mean, do what you do. But being an entrepreneur is all I've ever done as an adult. And I love it. And the more I do it, the more I love it. And the older I get, the more I love it. And because it because it challenges me, it really fits how I want to live my life and being in command of things all the time and and then generating from time to time.  Obviously, we have hundreds of thousands of fans. And then also now we have millions of haters. OK, great. This is part of life. It's part of being a man. It's a good challenge for me to becoming more masculine, becoming more of a man. Yeah. So, Anthony, where do you want this to go then?  So where does strength fit into the man mindset? I mean, we're always going to the man mindset. You have multiple shows. You do hours and hours of streaming. Dude, you do hours. It's not it's strong is what it is. I mean, that's what I've seen George Bruno ask you about this. Like, it takes there's a mental toughness to even being on the air that long, number one. But for your fans and your guys, like, where does strength fit into this in life as a man? Well, the strength starts from knowing who you are. The strength comes from your name. See, and you know, I've always been like, yeah, a lot of people are looking to everything else outside themselves except looking in the mirror to see what they are and what they need to be for themselves. You know, we are all different, but the strength to me is from knowing what I am because I'm the narrator. I write my story.  Now, don't get me wrong.   The law of the street don't speak. Because if you get caught, you'll get pulled over.  Then the third one, the third one is the law of the job. Just go to your job and do what you're supposed to do. But outside of those, people don't realize that they can narrate their lives. They can decide what they want to do and what they don't want to do and what they want to put up with and what they don't want to put it with. So the strength comes into a sense of self, just focusing on you. The world is always going to be the world but what makes you different is how you feel about yourself. And that's what a lot of guys don't believe. They don't believe in themselves. They believe what sometimes they believe what people tell them about themselves. And that's the problem. When you start to do that, you put a ceiling over your head at that point. Because I haven't thought about that in that way because that's exactly what I'm going through right now. I mean, all the speakers are getting criticized and attacked and insulted, but I'm getting the brunt of it. And I don't care with these people. Like, it doesn't matter to me. I value more about like, in turn, like you're saying, I think both of you guys, yeah, I like myself. I like what I do. And these people don't know me and they're losers anyway, most of the time. So who cares? When I can't understand, it's not that they don't like you, they just don't understand you or they're not taking the time to understand you because of their ego and self-importance. It's their ego and self-importance that is driving and fueling their rage and anger instead of taking a step back and seeing that what you're trying to do is, you're trying to solve the mystery puzzle that's been going on for women since I don't know when, how can I be a good woman to get that guy? Because all they do is, well, I have value and I'm a good woman and all this other stuff, but yet my bed is cold or if you take a blue light, there's a bunch of marks there from other guys and all this other stuff. And I don't know why I can't do that. And always tell these women, look, you know, they don't understand value. I'll never tell a woman, don't value yourself, but you got to understand the man chooses your value and that's what they don't understand. Always tell them, if you're in the middle of the street, you know, think about this, if you're in the middle of the street and you want a hamburger, think about this, McDonald's thinks their Big Macs have value, Burger King thinks their Whoppers have value, like the woman thinks she has value, but it's the customer that chooses the value in the product. It's not the, you can advertise all you want that I have value, but it's up to me. We're really the man to say, okay, you know what? I want you. I want the, I want the Big Mac over the Whopper because it's to all be Patty's special sauce, lettuce, cheese, you know all that. I'll be good. That's a very, that's a very powerful position to come from though, because being raised as a young man in America, at least for my generation, you're not taught that you're the selector or that you should be the selector of women.  And then what happens is they love it. They feel that from you and then they're like, yes.  But then they say like, I don't even, I can't even talk to them and it's like, man, delusional, like women love me in real life. Yeah. Well, it's, it's the, it's the Jopeta Pinocchio, the ones that men are doing it is because the women are pulling the strings.   How many guys do that? You're standing by what you're doing. You're, you're, you're, you're owning the 21 and 20 convention. You're saying, this is what we're about. We're not going to change for you, either join us or not. But women do find that kind of stuff intriguing and a turn on, even though their anger is showing emotion. That's right. That's right. Yeah. I'll piggyback on what Steve's talking about. This whole thing, it almost sounds like you listened to my speech at the 21 convention, Steve. This is awesome. Yeah. The authority. I remember that author. Yeah.  The author has the power over you. And so being able to think about that, the whole possibility, what you're talking about, Anthony, is gaining strength as a man. The most profound part of way of, way of that is that internal solid frame. That I mean, I have an internally referenced sense of self. Or as you're talking about Steve, the whole, my identity is based on internal realities, not what everybody else thinks. And so it's who am I? Who am I as a person? What is the character that I carry? What are the values that I have? It's who am I? And having that really strong internal frame of reference, rather than an external frame of reference is a really powerful thing. Because most guys live in an external frame of reference. Actually, most women do as well. But the whole idea of external frame of reference is living what does everybody else want? What's going to make everybody else happy? What's going to get me approval? You know, what are the expectations that everybody else has for me? A lot of business leaders do that too. They go based on what, they try to make everyone happy. And then you make no, you make no one happy.  No one, no one happy. No one's happy at all. And so the whole thing is actually, and it sounds incredibly selfish to men, is going, what's going to make me happy? And when I tell that to guys, what do you want? They're going, I don't know what I want. Because I've never even lived my life thinking about what I want. It's what everybody else wants. And so when you start living from an internal frame of reference with that solid frame, it's like I start to think about, who do I want? Or what do I want? Who do I want as well, right? That's what you're talking about, Steve. Yeah, what do I want? And I remember a day, man, I got, I got one of the most difficult things is getting laid off. I got laid off from a job and I was out to lunch with a friend who has a really strong external frame of reference and he just asked, Ken, what do you want? What do you want to go from here? What kind of work do you want to do? And I, I don't know. And it was just really shocking to me being able to go, I don't even know what I want in my own life. I had such a powerful external frame of reference. It's all I knew was outside of me. But when I start to believe in myself, when I start to believe that I'm a good man, when I start to believe that I have what it takes, when I start to believe that my internal resources, my heart, my intuition, my mind, my memory, my instinctive, my body, all the things that I have in here, my emotions, everything is just powerful and strong and I can trust it. Then I can actually start moving from an internal frame of reference and be able to live life in a really strong fashion. And the most powerful thing, Anthony, and this is what you're facing, is whatever comes at me, I liken it to that, that moment in the matrix when Neil was facing all the bullets, right? And those bullets were going to kill him. They were literally going to kill him. And all of a sudden he realized, these aren't going to hurt me. And he kind of, you know, he kind of dodges at first, right?  And whether that's what you're facing or as a man who is married and his wife might be criticizing him or whatever, to the externally referenced guy, criticism is kryptonite.  But the thing about it is, is that when you start gaining a strong sense of self, you're able to kind of pull back, it's not going to kill me. And I actually can stop the bullets and I'm inoculated to it and it's no longer kryptonite. And it feels kind of, that's kind of where you're at, Anthony, which is a really powerful spot. So you talk about how does a man gain strength? You know what Steve was talking about when I'm saying the whole internal frame of reference? This is how a man gains strength, finding out who the hell he is and what he wants and move from all those really good internal resources that he has and move through life that way. But a lot of it really starts from the whole idea of being initiated through really difficult moments in your life, if that makes sense. That's why I always say, don't be Superman, be Batman. Because if you look at Superman, he gets his strength from the yellow sun. But you take the sun away from him, you and it's a red sun or a green sun, he loses his strength. Batman, of course, he can be Batman with his costume on, without his costume on. It doesn't matter what color the sun is, he's always going to be him because internally that's what he is. He's not drawing his strength from something outside of itself where a lot of these guys are looking to draw strength from the outside. You know, they're looking to draw strength. You know, they take, I won't say the words, but they'll take words from certain people and they'll draw strength from that word or draw strength from that person instead of drawing strength from themselves. So when that person is gone, that means they got to wait for that person to come back to get the same strength. And that's probably the problem.  The whole nine, you have, you're never not Anthony Dream Johnson. Hell, you are so arrogant, which I respect. You calling yourself president. That's how bad you got to love it. But no, don't laugh. No, no, no. Well, now the feminists, they called me God, they called me a deity the other day. That was amazing on TV. I was on TV, I was like a national TV. But that's what I'm saying. And for the regular guy, they think something's wrong with you. But no, that's everything right with you. That's what they don't understand. You can be what Anthony wants to be. If Anthony wants to be Anthony King Johnson and Anthony Emperor Johnson, it doesn't matter what you are because that's how you feel about yourself. And for those who can't understand the kins of the world, or you or me of the world, they're going to think we're the problem and not the solution, sir. Yeah. One thing I wanted to hit on here, I wanted to get Ken on on this. Let me go back up to it. So it's a comment from Jose Grulan. I lost my sense of self, the family court with time. I have slowly reshaped back to a new self. It was a long road. So my specific question with this, I think Sean Smith, Dr. Sean Smith, one of our alumni speakers, he was the first person I'd ever seen use the term world shattering event for things like divorce and maybe death in the family, any kind of world shattering event for your frame of the world. And that made a lot of sense to me when I heard that concept. I had been through a nasty split with Max's wife. That was that was the first time really I'm a heartbroken as a man. Aside from, you know, deaths and things like that, my best friend dying would probably be the first real heartbreaking life. He died of cancer when I was like 19. But yeah, that was pretty serious, too. The loop, you know, we're thinking waking up one day and realizing my wife was literally a prostitute. That was not fun. But that has, you know, shaped me into more masculine, stronger man. And I'm very thankful for that experience that I had through that. So I'd like to know what you think about this comment from this guy and how men can bounce back from literally world shattering events like that within their own psychology. What are the experiences seen? Sure, sure. Yeah, another another commenter said life brings us many storms, you know, and we were talking about how football and other things are initiations. And I think the whole thing of life, you know, life brings us many storms. Jose is talking about the family court thing and the life or the life shattering events. You know, those are, that's the the void. That's those difficult moments in our life that that change us. And there are moments in our life that we can embrace.   Yeah, it's some out. It's some taking the blame or taking it.  But so many guys will do everything they can to avoid. And that's where a lot of addictions come from. Or I'm going into I'm going to numb out. I'm going to escape all kinds of freaking addictions. You know, whether it's part of that can be a natural impulse, right? Like depression. I've even seen absolutely. But obviously the minute you take that too far with a crutch, then it can become an addiction like alcohol, drugs and anything. Anything can become an addiction like exercise could become an addiction and things that are more, more acceptable socially. But still what it is is being able to face it and go through it and sit in it. And I love what Jose said because he's like I lost my sense of self. And usually that's the case that he probably had his sense of self in his wife too much to begin with. The whole idea of my, I need her validation. I need her to like me. I need to, I heard it be pleased with me. That's kind of how the nice guy, what Glover talks about. Oh my gosh, this is, that's the nice guy. I'm living for, you know, I'm pleasing everybody else to make sure I feel good about myself. The, it's the reflected sense of self where my identity and my value is reflected on what someone else thinks rather than a solid sense of self where I know who I am and I know where my value and worth comes from, from internal places. And if I'm living that external life, I will lose my sense of self. And it absolutely, Jose is talking about happening to him in family court. That was the storm that he faced, the life-shattering event he faced. But he comes out of it and I love what he's saying. I love what he, Jose said where he's starting to gain it back. And that's the journey of life is I go through a really difficult moment. I find out who the heck I really am. I find out how I've been living this external reference life and I get into really beginning to live a life that I want. That this is a life where I'm actually in it. I'm not out there trying to make everybody else happy. I'm actually wanting to make me happy. Or thinking that the world just happens to you. Yeah, exactly. Anthony, that is so perfect because most of the guys they're going to go through this kind of feel of themselves. I think Glover talks about him being a raft on the ocean where he's just going with the wind and the waves and the current and the tides and where everybody else takes me rather than going, you know, putting a motor on it and going, all right, let's go this way. This is where I want to go.   And that's a really powerful shift. But we do have to go through some really significant events that are difficult. Because, you know, Steve, you had talked about this right from the very beginning.  You're saying that, you know, life is going to hit you. You know, it's going to hit you. That's all there. It's going to smack you right upside the head in whatever way, whether it's a death of a friend, death of a loved one, an illness.   Something's going to happen in your life. Yep. And you just got to be ready and go, this is my moment to be able to stand up to this and this is my moment to learn and grow and to become stronger because that's what's going to happen as I get through it. Because you get on the other side of two or three of these events, you come out of it and you're going, I can handle anything. Even death, I'm going to be just fine. You know, it's like, yeah, it's crazy how strong your internal frame of reference can get and your internal identity can get. Yeah. So thanks, Jose, for talking about that. That's a pretty powerful thing. Ken, what do you think about this quote here from Carl Jung? Neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering. Are you in psychology? Oh, I like Carl Jung for sure. And you just read that. You go, yeah, a person with neurosis or that's an unhealthy balance in your life is I'm or I'm pursuing something or you had kind of thrown out the depression word. It's like, yeah, I'm using these things to keep myself from suffering, from engaging with it. Sean Smith was in his book. What is it? A manual for the human mind? One of his earlier books. I was reading it and he was one of the first times it made a lot of sense to me based on other stuff I'd read, but I hadn't seen it put that way. The depression is actually people think of it very negatively, but can actually be a useful response to trauma in your life. Absolutely. As long as it's not permanent or chronic. Exactly. Yeah, and it's part of the void experience. It's be like anxiety as well. It's just it's a it's an opportunity to allow something in my life to communicate to me about what's going on and what I might need to be doing with myself. Yeah. And that's a really powerful thing. How do I take care of myself in this in this difficulty, whether it's a panic or whether it's neurosis or or whatever. But but I think that whole idea of connecting it to suffering. What we do with suffering, especially in the United States, everything we have done is to avoid suffering. We have we we do everything to make life so happy and good that that's actually creates more problems. One of my favorite quotes on this is no man is more unhappy than when he never then he who never faces adversity for he is not permitted to prove himself. And that's Seneca. No man is more unhappy than he who never faces adversity. And it's like we have to face it. It's part of life. It's part of building strength. It's part of gaining a strong internally referenced sense of self. And and you know at the conference Anthony the the thing Tanner was talking about. And I think I mentioned it in my speech there last October when he was talking about his boxing match.  That he's he's actually putting himself in a situation where he has to learn about himself.  And it's like and he came out of it feeling like the best he'd ever felt. And you go what's up with that? It's like some Michael stuff. It is it is. But the reason why that's important is because I'm coming out of this knowing a hell of a lot more about myself and about what I have that I have what it takes and I can handle just about anything. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. I love I love the adversity man. Socrates pointed out too in that conversation I was mentioning earlier. He had talked about just all the the challenges and adversity and the conflict I'd been through just in 2019.  And then he was like, yeah, you wouldn't have it any other way. And I was like, yeah, that's right. That's right. Because it's it's something I've believed in for a long time, especially, you know, with football as a reference growing up, that was, you know, being on the ocean growing up on a boat. I was on a boat all time growing up fishing and stuff. And then football were major components in my life. And they had different effects. I think I'm a personality as I've developed into an adult. But the challenge especially in the adversity was really great. The challenge of being in a sport, the ritual process, and then that evolved into the challenge of entrepreneurship which keeps escalating as I get older. And these different these different obstacles along the way.  But, you know, I enjoy it.  But these are all challenges I've thought about and I'm ready to face them as they come at me. Just as any other strong masculine man I think should and would. So that's a hell of a lot of fun.  And I think that's a really positive way to view these things is they're fun. They can be painful.  And I think what they do, my take on it is they avoid short-term pain even when there's long-term gain to be had. That's a net profit to their life as a man. To their, let's say, their net profit to their masculinity or something. I think many think a lot more like that, like how can their masculinity profit? If their masculinity was money or a bank account, like how do you make it go up? And short-term pain and challenges and getting your nose bloody like Tanner getting in a boxing match, that's a really good way to do that.  Yeah, let me say some more about that because it's like I think when you start adding the whole context of marriage in our world, it's like thinking that marriage is not easy. Marriage is something that is going to, gosh, it's a, I think Glover quotes Dr. David Schnarsh, crazy name, but he talks about how relationships are people growing machines, meaning that you're in a relationship, you are going to grow up.  And so many people think, why would I be in a relationship if it's going to be difficult? And it's like, because it's going to grow you the hell up, that's what it's going to do. It's going to make you stronger. It's going to make you into a more loving individual. It's going to make you into a more patient individually. And you interact with your woman and your kids and you find out so many things about yourself about what life is all about. And if you embrace it and you go, that's what this is all about. It's growing me up, making me into a more loving man, a better man, a stronger man, then why wouldn't I engage in that? But so many people will run away from it because it's going to be difficult or it's going to be a challenge or it's going to be hard.  That's what I'd say that about me. It has been easily the best thing I've ever done. Well, let's say let me challenge you on that. How does marriage compare to fatherhood? That gets a lot of the same flak that being the father is a waste of time or Oh my gosh, man. Better to be single forever and blah, blah, blah. I'll say this, Anthony, fatherhood is has its own obstacles, its own difficulties. But it's a it feels like it's a hell of a lot more rewarding. My wife's going to kill me if she hears this. She might even say that as well. But the whole thing of how fathering, man, it is I look at my kids and where they're at in life and how I supplied them and supported them to be really strong and healthy and they're rocking the world and they're doing well and and all that. And it just everything in me is just like fulfilling and pride and it feels really good. Yeah, so it's a it's a pretty powerful thing, but it does come with its own obstacles and it comes with its own. I mean, it's not easy. It's a tough go half the time. Yeah, Steve. Yeah. What are you thinking? As far as that, it goes to first as far as being a parent. For me, I think it's the ultimate because you are able to you have somebody that's a sponge that you can help guide not just in your wisdom, but able to see help them see their own wisdom and their own thought processes and be able to you see, I never see fatherhood as a bad thing. I think it's the best thing in the world.  I mean that I'm air.  So I wanted a carbon copy me. You know, that's how arrogant I felt that I was so great that hey, I want more of me out there because that's just how I felt about myself, but did not just have more me out there, but to have to give back to the world, to give the world some strong individuals that can probably change some of the courses of other people's lives. That's how I look at it. But if I can add something or two, you're you're both coaches for men. You both teach men and different platforms, groups, therapy, online, radio, podcasting, all that. But that's different from being a father. Like you are being a father figure and a masculine figure to a lot of men, thousands. Anthony, let me interject there.  The stuff that we both do. Even to a degree, what you're doing, you're being a father. Yes, thank you. Yeah, that's what we're doing.  Like I thought he thought I had a kid. I'm like, dude, I don't know. I'm not literally a father. No, no, no, no. Yeah, so being able to define what's a father. It's be getting life, be getting life, creating.  That's be getting life. But I'm quite certain that what I do, what Steve does, what you're doing, Anthony, we're wanting to create life in other men. We want them to become alive. We want them to become themselves. We want them. I mean, what what Jose was talking about that the thing, he's going, I am now becoming myself after this really difficult event. And if he has somebody with him, a friend who's fathering him through that, it's how do I how do I take that little spark of life that's in after this really destructive thing? And how do I grow that into the fullness of him being a man who's strong and capable and powerful? I mean, that's what a father does. Whether it's with your kids and bringing them toward confidence or or it's some other guy. It's that's what a father does and is. And so I agree on this. And one of our old speakers, Greg Swan would talk, he would, he was the first person I heard say that, you know, the millennials and Gen Z, they're under fathered. It's a very under fathered generation. And that's why I think the man is fear. And what we do is becoming more popular. Young men are under fathered. They're and as a result, they're under masculine. And that hurts them because they're men.  Right. Yep. Yep. But what I wanted to say is that specifically on my interjection, the original interjection with Steve is that you guys are both we're all father figures, especially you guys. You're older than me. It's much more. And we literally have kids. And you literally have kids. However, the difference between I think being a father figure and a father, obviously, right? There's the word difference. But the real difference is in real life.  Literally. You literally created them physically. And that I think is why you both view fatherhood correctly, in my opinion, so powerfully. It's not just coaching and fathering indirectly through, you know, the internet platforms and books. It's direct wisdom being passed on to your direct physical genetic lineage. And that's really important. That's part of your legacy that you're going to leave in this world. It's going to carry forward your genes literally into the future. And even your choices, there's a whole science of epigenetics where your genes, the choices you make, not just your genes, but the choices you make expressing your physical genes, get passed on your kids. And that's why, you know, how you take care of yourself with health and fitness and all these other things are really important for men and women both. I wrote that on the page for the 22 and that really triggered some people. That's a hundred percent fact. Well, Anthony, I'm going to interject your interjection until you get it wrong. Because Amir was right. You see, you don't, okay, just because you don't have a child, Anthony, doesn't mean that you have you're not being a father figure.  You just don't realize what you've been doing. Yeah. You have what helps you out is that when you have that day where you become a father, you've already got the tools set. See, you've already done the groundwork. You already have the tools where a lot of guys don't have them. So once you have a child, the transition is going to swoop in. Matter of fact, that you're an uncle as well. You get to hold your your little nephew. It's a nephew. It's a nephew, right? It's a boy, right? Yeah, it's amazing. Holding him is amazing, man. He's so happy and nervous. It's amazing. No, beyond words. Right, but that's what I'm saying. So you are being a father figure, but not only to those that do go to the 21 convention and things like that, but you've already prepared yourself for when that time comes. It's the transition is easy for a lot of guys who don't have a sense of self. That's where the difficulties come in at because they don't know they're not prepared for the storm that's about to come. Not to say family, kids or storms. I'm just saying in that analogy, they're not preparing themselves for the storm. Well, my little sister has another baby on the way. That is a storm. Yeah, for them. And they'll be fine. I mean, the dad, the dad's a strong dude. I like him a lot. My sister does too. My other sister. So it's good stuff. Go ahead. I was just going to finish your thought, Anthony. You're Oh, it was a surprise for them though. I mean, they were they were going to have another child about a year from now. And instead, it's been four months since she gave birth. So a little bit sooner than they had anticipated or whatever. I mean, that's life, right? But I'm sure they're not the first couple in history if that's happened to them. Not a five mile. But it's, you know, it's it can be a little bit of a storm, I guess, right? You know, they're they're both new parents. They've only been parents for four months. Oh, it's a storm. It's it's a when you're first to having young kids, man, it is easily the most difficult time in a marriage. It's the tough toughest season. It's it's rough. But yeah, I was just I was just going to say on one of our commenters. I was talking about re parenting. And I actually would call it a re fathering because I think the the one right before that is how do we, you know, it is the concept of re fathering. What I was talking about, the whole thing of Anthony talked about kind of a there being a dearth of not enough fathering in our culture. And I'd say it goes back beyond Gen X or Gen Millennials. I'm at the very end of the boomers. It's funny how Tex and I are two months apart. And we're we're like we feel like the lost children of the boomer generation. It's like, yeah, whatever. Right. But the the whole thing is even even in my generation, there's a huge amount of men, people, women who haven't been fathered well. It's not been something that's been strong for quite a while. And so so I actually call the process of gaining your internal reference, gaining your internal validation, gaining your strong identity, finding out who you really are is you actually re fathering yourself. And so that whole idea of of re parenting or re fathering is something that we have to do. And that essentially is is what my father would have told me that you got what it takes kid. I'm proud of you.  And you actually start believing it. And that's your process of gaining that internal reference. And we have to do it for ourselves. The curious thing is the commenter saying, can men re parent society? And I love that's a great idea. You know, the whole idea of re fathering, how do we rebuild fathers? How do we rebuild this in a where we have good fathering that being able to those of our our procreation, the things that are progeny, the people that are coming behind us, can we give to these generations the ability to learn who they are and how they how internally referenced they are. And then it's a totally different thing. What I'm talking about is totally different than the Steve you talked about the participation awards or or the high esteem, self esteem process or whatever that that never turned out to anything good. But fathering and giving kids the great sense of who they are a real sense of who they are. That's a totally different story because especially as you father someone through a difficult situation. Man, that's where they really find out who they are. Yeah, I love that idea. I think Anthony, maybe that's what you're doing is pushing in on re bothering this system. I think that's a big reason why I mean, there's probably like half a dozen primary or core reasons why the make woman great again idea has been so viral and so upsetting to so many women and vision males.  But for the there's a lot of women that are genuinely upset and they don't have good reasons for it. Like they're just yelling, you know, insults and all that. But it's a triggering, I think of daddy issues to put it in, you know, every day common language. Right. Really, they had weak fathers. Their fathers were neutered. Their fathers and grandfathers were slowly neutered. In my opinion, by this feminist establishment that's been gaining traction for decades, they neuter, you know, masculine voices in public square and every domain of life. Men are, every year that goes by, men are allowed to speak up less and less and less by overall general society. And that results in these weak fathers and weak marriages that have weak fathering for their children. The girls grew up without a good sense of boundaries and respect for men. They don't have a man to admire. And I think, Anthony, let me say this real quick. The really big part of this is this is when a woman also has a really a void in their identity. This is what I'm talking about the whole thing of not having a really strong sense of self. So the reflected sense of self is they are that identity void that they have that they don't feel like they're enough or good enough that they're because their father didn't give that. That's the father's voice that would give that. And they didn't get it. And so they're seeking a man, a man, any guy out there, some guy that's hot, some guy that's not, whatever it doesn't matter. They're lashing out at a deep wound. That's what they do. It's not necessarily lashing out. It's seeking to fill that empty void in my identity by having the validation of a man. If a man wants to have sex with me, that makes me feel good about myself. But it lasts that long. That's what I'm referring to with that. Exactly. And so, but it lasts, it lasts a heartbeat. And then as soon as the it's over, then then they go back to feeling that shame that they're not good enough.  Then they feel more shame. And then they got to do it again. It's an insane cycle that people get caught into. It's like an addiction, like alcohol. It is. But it's keep knocking back shots of male attention. We got to feel that void and it just doesn't work. So, even for women, I have a huge heart for women as well. And this whole thing of being able to help women to gain a really strong sense of self as well. It's a really powerful thing to help anybody to have a strong sense of self so they move through life so they don't fall for these things. And they don't fall and they don't feel really bad about themselves. So they keep doing these addictive type of behaviors. It's a really big deal. And so fathering, fathering, it doesn't matter whether they're your DNA or not. It's like, I think even that's part of the father's voice, like I was saying, it's a really powerful thing. And I think that comes up like even with your grandchildren, it's like man, I want to be able to speak into my grandchildren's lives and be present and to give them what they need. That's all it is. A father speaks. A father is present. That sounds like mansplaining to me. Everything we're doing is mansplaining. I know. I'm a man and I'm explaining life right here. They're calling me the mansplainer and the mansplainer and chief now. They were calling me on Twitter and stuff. Absolutely. I thought it was pretty funny. Do it. Well, it's the thing about it is is that what's true. And I would challenge anybody. If you have an internal frame of reference, if something inside of you says what Ken is saying is bullshit, then go with that. If that's bullshit, then trust your internal process. If you hear what I'm saying and it sounds like this is truth, then trust your internal process. If what we're saying, if you hear the screeching out there and you think that's truth, then trust it and go with it and do it. If you believe it's a biggest lie and I want something different, then trust that and go with it. And I think the reason, I think the reason for that is that you learn how to navigate reality better, how to navigate life. Because if you trust your gut and your instinct on something and you follow it, you're going to learn whether your gut was right or wrong based on the outcome of trusting your gut. So I think that's how you develop. I know as an entrepreneur, this is how I've learned, I've honed my instincts and skills over the years as an entrepreneur. I was not born naturally talented at hosting events. I had no idea what I was doing when I started it as literally a teenager. I didn't have a clue. I just started doing it and I've learned step by step, inch by inch, tooth and nail for 13 and a half years now. And I've gotten really good at it and I'll get even better every year that goes by doing event by event. I can only wait till you're my age, Anthony. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be awesome. Yeah. Being a young man is great. I'm not that I'm still pretty young, but looking back on my 20s and teens, I had a great time. But the older I get, the more fun I have, the more power I gain, the more masculine I become. Yeah. The more relationships I have, the more wealth I have. It's awesome. Yeah, I can't wait to be in my 40s and 50s. It's going to be badass. You're going to like it. It's a pretty thing. Yeah, it's good stuff. We have some questions here in the chat by the way we can pop up. So this is from G-Dog UK. As fathers, in your experience, what would you say are important things to have in place before having children? As in both internal qualities and foundations and external ones, appreciate your thoughts. You got thoughts, Steve, because I do, but I've been talking a lot, so go. No, no, no, no. Father, in your experience, what would you say are important things to have in place before you have in children? Well, it's not just having, it's not just the children. It's the experiences that you can come along with all this. You've got to be able to give your children life experiences that you have dealt with as a man. You can't just, I mean, like Anthony's saying, Anthony's got a business, but kids are not a business. You can't just fly by night with kids. That's why I always tell you guys, protect your seed, protect your sperm until it's time to find someone that's worthy of it. But until you do that, your beginnings all goes back to a sense of self, knowing which you are because you got to think about schooling. You got to think about religion. You got to think about college. You got to think about their education. You got to think about discipline. You got to think about, you got to think about Christmas and vacations. It's not just, I got a baby and I'm going just, oh, la, la, la, la. No, you've got to be prepared.  You know what I mean? Like Anthony said, his sister four months later. So it's all, at the end of the day, it all comes down to being prepared, preparing yourself, but not just for yourself, but preparing to teach this, your son or your daughter, how to be a good individual and how to navigate through this world without having the world eat them up. It's being honest with them and letting them know that the world, the world doesn't really care about you. You know what I mean?   I mean, sometimes, not all the time, but you just... Brother doesn't different. Yeah, they don't care. Yeah, yeah. So you got to be prepared for all of that, yeah? You got to deal with your daughters crying because some girl maybe spread a rumor.  I mean, there are so many layers to fatherhood because you can, as a man, you can handle yourself.  Now you can beat up his daddy, of course. But you can't beat up that kid. But I'm just saying that those are... I'll just throw it to you, Kim, but I'm just saying a lot of things that you got to deal with, man. I like the layering ideas. That's interesting as a concept of fatherhood, that there's just layers of it. I never thought of that. Yeah, there are. So I like what you're saying, Steve, as much, and this is the thing, as much as possible, prepare yourself, right? Gain as much of a strong internal reference sense of self. Gain your capability to be able to provide. Gain your capability to be able to protect all the different things that a father does. Gain your ability to be able to speak well and stand up for yourself and say what needs to be said. There's a lot of things about those things, of just being a really strong human being before you engage in being a father or even being married. But when it really comes down to it, not until you get into it, do you really know what's required of it? And so one of the statements that I use, not sure where I got this, but the whole idea of marriage prepares you for marriage or fathering prepares you, or being a father prepares you for fathering. It's like you have to be in it. You have to be in the context of it. And just know that it's going to grow you up and it's going to build your capability as a father and as a husband. And as a parent, you're going to learn how to parent as you do parenting, especially you're going to do it well if you have a really good teammate with your wife. And if she's in it with you and you guys are working together and you have strong, similar values on how to discipline and what you want. Steve, you listed a whole bunch of things, the education, religion, our values as a family. It's all the different things that we want together, but you really don't know how to do this until you actually do it. But what you're talking about, Steve, is spot on as much as possible, prepare yourself by really building your strong sense of self. I think that's a really important part of this whole journey, for sure. Yeah, something that reminds me of is they say this about fighting, any kind of really competitive, you know, athletic fighting sport, boxing, kickboxing, whatever, you learn it by doing it. You learn it by sparring, you learn it by getting in the ring.  And you can see that with you. That's why I love speakers like that we've had like a lot more in cobertate. You can feel that with these guys. These guys have been in the ring at the champion, at champion levels in professional boxing and whatnot. And it's serious. And they're fighters. People think I like, you know, I like cobertate a lot. People think I like them because he has cars and money or something. I don't care at all.  I care because this guy has heart and he's a fighter. And I love seeing that. That's how I feel about myself with my business. I don't really talk about entrepreneurship too much. And it's not, I mean, it's become more of my identity as I get older with it. I never think of myself as a businessman. And this is how people view me and stuff.  I view myself as a fighter and as a champion of building events and like an architect. But I think much more in my business is as being a leader of it as a builder and a fighter. And that's what I'm going through right now with the events or like a really good expression of that, not just the videos and all that other stuff. I build these events and it's a challenge and it's a fight. And right now for me, it's a fist fight, digitally speaking with these people. And I'm winning and it's a lot of fun. So it's pretty great. Yeah. It's something I mentioned earlier and I, this is a, you know, I don't want people to take this politically or whatever, but I happen to be a big Trump fan. Great. And there's different reasons for that. But one of the things I think people don't understand about him that I see in him very brightly because I see it in myself and so I recognize it. Like game recognizes game. He loves having fun. Like I think it's one of his highest values. And he's mentioned this explicitly like maybe a year and a half ago in the White House lawn. He was talking about there's something serious going on like building the wall and getting money forward or whatever.  He almost yelling about it. And he's like, yeah, we're having a lot of fun here. It's amazing. And blah, but just like he talks, right? But he literally said fun. And people, I think gloss over this word, but I think very masculine men that face challenges, they learn how to have fun with it, including when it hurts and including when it doesn't. And it's pleasurable or something like that. You know, having a big win in business or whatever, it's pleasurable.  Like it's like a good fight. So to me, I think fun is a very undervalued thing for men. And they can take becoming more masculine. That's too seriously. It's a very serious thing, but they take it to what they call it, like straight edged or whatever the word. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that's what it is.  And you need to have fun to be to be a badass, man.  I mean, look at guys, you know, these fighters and stuff like Carpitae, for example, this guy has a lot of fun. He's always serious in all those photos. But John, John Fitch, I love that guy. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. He has a great attitude. Yeah. And he's funny. And he's also a badass. Like he's a, you know, like a really Oh, yeah. kind of remarkable high level on the main fighter. Dude, man, when I had drinks with him, man, it was like actually, Tex and I were having drinks. He was he was eating. I think he's a little more clean than we are. But but he's just dang, man, the conversation, he he is funny. He has fun with what he does. He's he and he talks about losing. And and it's like, and he enjoys it. I mean, I'm just like, what? This guy is made of some kind of really amazing material. And and and you just got to, you got to love what he has to say. And that attitude of play, because play is something that that is just a powerful thing in life. It's a really powerful thing.  It's kind of Oh, Jesus. You know, I was like, what is RBF? Oh, you know what it is. Yeah. It's and it's not necessarily women that have it. It's like, there's a lot of people out there that just they just have this posture with them. That their face is just life is shitty.  And all the stuff that comes out of their mouth is negative stuff. And and a lot of the man of sphere has RBF.  It's this needs to be a fun thing. We need to be on the team. When you be having a blast with each other and just enjoying life. But it's just not what it is. So Sean, Sean Smith and I were joking about the RBF thing. Yeah. I think it's a it's a funny thing. I think you hit the nail on the head that a lot of the man of sphere does have resting bitch face. And I think that's that's a bad thing for several reasons.   They don't have fun. They don't have any fun. Dude, once last time we were to feminists talk about love or having fun. These are concepts and humor and comedy.  Oh, humor. You've seen comedians like Jerry Seinfeld and Dave Chappelle.  It's no fun. I will tell you, they don't have any sense of humor. I'll tell you what, probably one of the most powerful, powerful sword you have in your in your belt or whatever your weapon is going to be laughter and humor. I mean just and because it's like it's like it's a it's craziest thing. You watch laughter and humor and sarcasm happen and it and it it's it's amazing how powerful it is. Crazy powerful. Now people are drawn to positivity that's genuine. They're drawn to laughter and in good feelings and they should be.  What is it is everything we're talking about. We're talking about difficulty. We're talking about Jose's talking about going through this family court thing and about wrecking. We're talking about people dying. We're talking about the void. We're talking about uncertainty. We're talking about death. We're talking about all these things that initiate me and they're painful and they're difficult. But that's that's one piece of life and when I come out the other side I'm stronger and I'm able to look back on it and laugh. I'm able to enjoy life. You're talking about Tanner. You know his boxing match he had where he got beat up pretty bad and he talked about in his speech on an Instagram and stuff. Tanner Guzzi I don't know if he mentioned it but I can guarantee you he had a lot of fun doing that. Oh there's no doubt. It wasn't just a growth process and it wasn't just a challenge and all that. That's good but he had fun too.  This is the excitement of it. Yeah I bet John Fitch is the same way because when he's talking to somebody that means he's learning from somebody who's better than him. At least in the moment or whatever happened. He can learn. Yeah learning is fun. That's the same thing with pickup. Like I went out for years and talked to women at bars I still do sometimes right and like thousands and a lot of that can be socially awkward and kind of brutal especially when you're getting started but it's also became a lot of fun because I got to learn and learning is a positive fun experience even if it doesn't tickle in the moment.  Who cares. Life goes on. You know it's not that bad.  Tanner Guz I think whatever you do in life if your identity is at stake if I approach a woman and she rejects me and that wrecks me and ruins my life because of that rejection because my identity is at stake because I have her sense of who I am determines whether I feel good or not valuable or not. And so that's that reflected sense of self but the whole idea my identity is at stake with whatever I do. But if I have that really solid identity and I know who I am and this is unchangeable and my value and my worthiness is a rock. It's not going to move. It's good. Then whatever I do if I lose a game if I get rejected if I have a challenge or whatever then I can actually play with it. And that's what's really fun because it's like you watch the pros in football. Man I remember in football it was like my identity was at stake if I lost in high school if I lost something was wrong with me or I was less than. And so it was at stake and so those other guys on the other team were my freaking enemy because they were determining my value. And that's what I love about the end of a game in pro football or even during after a play you'll see the guys kind of yucking it up a little bit the opponents and they enjoy each other and because their identity is not at stake because they have a really strong sense of self and that makes it a really fun competition. I think you'll find this pretty interesting Ken and Steve too. One of the last things Mike's wife ever said to me we were talking it was like February 2016 or something she was I don't know what the hell we were talking about exactly but she just looked at me and she was like you have no shame do you and I was like absolutely none like immediately and the reason for that isn't just that I'm some arrogant overconfident bastard I make mistakes but I'm proud of them and I'm proud to make them because wait let me let me let me you just said not because I am just an arrogant bastard you're claiming that man I love it oh yeah yeah it's great yeah it's part of being it's part of being a winner you got to believe in yourself you got to believe in the dream in my case so but she said that and I had never heard anyone say that to me it wasn't believe it or not and that was you know 2016 whatever but yeah the reason I don't have shame even when I make mistakes and whatnot even if I need to apologize to somebody if I really fuck up it's because I live in accordance to my values and those those adjust over time and those changes that because I grow up and mature and learn about the world and gain knowledge and wisdom but I'm always doing my absolute best live in accordance to my values and that's why I don't have shame and I don't feel that I think that's what really pisses off a lot of people right now on the internet that don't know me that see me taking these actions to bold events and whatnot I don't have any shame for this I think it's fantastic you know President Dream is going to make women great again and you're not going to stop me and have a good day bye bye and it just drives them nuts like the more I do that and the more I celebrate their hatred if they're just getting it's like this feedback cycle them getting riled up and I'm just laughing at them and their tear they're crying and stuff I was joking last week on last week's show about you know making an ocean out of their tears and we could swim in it no like a pool or something that'd be great so one thing I wanted to close the show out on guys is a well let me say this I believe firmly on from a philosophical standpoint that art is fuel for the soul is fuel for man's soul and that's why one of the reasons it's important it can inspire creativity and all kinds of things you know maybe through adversity whatnot but fundamentally art is fuel for the soul and so on that premise I'd like to talk about some of your favorite maybe one or two of your favorite artworks books movies whatever that have inspired you and I'll start and I'll say that my favorite novel to date is The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand and so I bring this up to you because a lot of guys they over focus on nonfiction Ken your books are nonfiction Dr. Glover's books are nonfiction obviously Sean Smith all these guys right right but fiction is important too not only as a human being but as a man I think and so one of my favorite works is The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand written by a woman right ironically and she wrote a very I think masculine character from her point of view as a woman Howard worked the architect in The Fountainhead it came out in the 1930s I think and one of my favorite books of all time I love the movie too that's actually I was first introduced to it the movie The Fountainhead that came out in 1949 I think starring Gary Cooper who was a very masculine actor he was also in another movie later in 1950s called High Noon and that's been revered by U.S. presidents for a long time and he's so he's well known for being a very masculine actor and I think he did a great portrayal of Howard work the architect so I love the movie and I love I love the book it's about an architect you know as a almost as an artist as a designer navigating his way through the world and overcoming all these externally is that that external the external validation is a huge issue in that book that's talked about and Howard work is internally validated 100% and as you can imagine it drives the world absolutely nuts as he ages he goes through architecture school is he's hated by the dean and most of his teachers there's like one or two that like him and like 80% of them hate him because he's such a I think it's like an arrogant little prick or whatever but really he's very talented and very strong and very masculine and you see him in the novel you know even in the movie that he ages and matures and becomes more masculine and he navigates the world and he he retains his his internal validation and his his direction in life as a man and he doesn't let anyone take that from him throughout his whole life and then as a obviously it's a movie in a book so it has a very climactic ending for that and even through that he maintains it and keeps going so if you guys have some favorite you know pieces of art like that you could talk about that specifically mentioned watch and and learn about let's go for it well Steve I'm trying to find some yeah I can't really say art-wise I mean I always tell guys that watch the bridges of Madison County to see what a man how a man pulls woman no but art-wise I love classical music man I mean that's my art I take it all the time it's nothing like it's it's silence well Anthony I think in King y'all might understand is because when you when you have a business and you're doing what you're doing your mind is always racing and it's hard to silence the mind because you can try to go to sleep and your mind is just just that you just you're always on that's the thing y'all you're always on so what's good is I type up on Netflix fireplace in the fire I go to Netflix I type in fireplace I love it and I and you know I got my new mistress my 82 inch TV so it's my new mistress but I type in fire I type in the word fireplace on Netflix and just the crackle and noise of the fire put a little bit of classical music on I pull it up on an app you can just type up at classical music and and just work it's just it's the most soothing I've been doing this since fifth grade so it is soothing just listening to the the the violins and all that I mean just just I mean the orchestra the I love it all but it's soothing it soothes your mind and chance to really relax yourself so I would tell God listen to classical music I mean Beethoven most I mean there's tons of of classical I'm a fan of Bach yeah Bach as well right so I just I just love it so I would just tell guys to do that but also one thing I would tell guys as far as the art thing I want to connect to that your life is not as bad as you guys think it is because there are guys out there always remember there's somebody out there who wishes they had the eyes that you do have that they don't have to see they don't have the legs that you have to be able to walk and move around and think so y'all a lot of people got to take things in a perspective that people don't have what you have you got to appreciate what you do have but getting back to that I'm just saying guys go to Netflix type of fireplace turn out the light relax just some classical music and the crackle of the just the crackle of the wood is soothing man it's just I can't even describe it man Steve let me give you another thing so if you like the crackle of the wood you have to go to Darth Vader funeral pyre and it's the exact same thing it looks exactly like the fireplace but it just goes on for hours and it's just Darth Vader burning on his pile of sticks you would love it you got it next time you got to do this brother what is it on Netflix or YouTube you probably get on it it's totally YouTube we did it my kids and I a couple of Christmases ago you know I have the Christmas fire in the back while you're doing your presents yeah we had Darth Vader on his funeral on the background you're gonna you of all people we're gonna love that one yeah yeah I would be coming there yes I would that's so awesome so Anthony as you're talking about that I think this is us going through life as men being aware of what moves us and I think that's the powerful thing about art is whatever moves us whether it's classical music you know 70s rock some statue a movie you know whatever the heck it is it's a sunset it could be any anything that really kind of and again this is all part of the whole thing of being internally referenced you know what inside of me is just has that sense of awe or or even you can even call it worship it's just something that just rises up in me that just feels like that is amazing you know you're sitting there I think reverence would be the word reverence definitely absolutely perfect I think I did that with my son and I this last September we were out hunting we were up in and we were looking at the stars and I right out right directly ahead of us was the constellation Cygnus which is a swan and just how the stars totally were and we were watching looking at the Milky Way and it was just like it was absolutely awe and it just was incredibly moving and as beautiful and if you see that with the sunset or if you see that with your wife if you see that with your kids playing if you see it with like I said a beautiful piece of artwork it's like that is what you need to attend to and just be aware of and listen to and have inside of you I actually got a picture of so this happened to me gosh 20 30 years ago there was this statue I was going through the town of Vale here in Colorado and back behind a building was this huge statue it was probably 10 feet tall and it was a statue of an American Indian warrior and his and the name of the statue is iron that walks and that was the that actually is the name of the chief that they took a picture of and I got I got a that's a picture of it right here yeah you can see that yeah and the coolest part of this when I saw this I'm going that that is manhood and and if you look at it he's got six different things that are weapons he's got that really amazing a battle axe with the spike on it and he's got his bow and he's got his tomahawk and he's got his knife and he's got I'm trying to remember what else he has on it but but when I saw that that was in my journey trying to figure out what the hell manhood was and trying to figure out what my own strength is and I saw that and something so powerfully moved in me that unapologetic thing that we started this whole conversation with Anthony of just going this this man this is so unapologetic and he's just standing there the thing about it you look at it he's just so relaxed he's absolutely relaxed and and he's and you just know that I don't think anybody anybody would ever want to mess with that guy yeah you know and he's just standing I love the name it was iron that walks yeah yeah that is masculinity and it's in a single name that's fantastic yeah everything about that and so that's easily my favorite piece of artwork and and I hope someday to acquire something that might even have be able to get it I know I probably won't get the 10 foot tall one but they have these little ones but they're pretty expensive but that that's like that's the thing that really something in me that moved deeply about my masculinity and and it's kind of showed me that man this this is what a man could look like and and I know that I'm not going to walk through my life with with all those different things on me you know the different weapons but guess what I've gained internal weapons I have my voice I have my presence I have my body I have my wisdom it looks like of a bow in the background dude man that's my long bow baby yeah exactly you gotta really got real weapons man I do so but that's my hunting bow that's what I use for hunting and so that's that's what I have I actually have this in my internal things to be able to move through life as a man to make a difference and be powerful and and to change my world with because I'm here and I'm going to change everything to the better because I'm a force for good and that's what a man is for sure yeah unapologetic team man I love it for sure so we have one final question I thought we could take before we probably hop off I could I could answer this sure you guys feel free to hop in so Poncho Jacobs asked can anyone explain the real facts and truths surrounding attempts at resource preservation by opting for a private marriage all caps so he's probably referring to what I did years ago with my ex-wife um I had studied you know I was in the man's sphere in the pickup artist community and I was familiar with the men's rights guys and I'd seen a lot of guys both from the pick up artists and the men's rights get burned in divorce court and then they show up in the man's sphere and they talk about it and the you know it was so consistent that even the guys who blow it off and dismiss it I was like you know you guys shouldn't be dismissing this like there's a really consistent pattern here for whatever reason these guys are showing up and they're getting hosed in divorce court as it turns out men are you know biased against in these court systems for divorce and family court and child custody and stuff for example in America I think 98% of alimony goes to women through equality right so private marriage was my solution that I created as a creative young man who wanted to get married and have a family and start a family because I did not want to I didn't want to empower the woman at the time I wanted to be my wife I didn't want to give her like a loaded gun and this is this is what like Janice Femengo calls it too I didn't want to give her a loaded legal gun to blow up the marriage and blow up the family so I don't think it's a good thing I don't think it's a good thing to invite the government into your home unless you have to into your family into your relationship I'm firmly against it I think it's stupid so at least in the modern context where these things are very hostile to healthy positive relationships and masculinity and men so what I did is I created a private marriage where basically we went through all the motions of a marriage and a wedding and a honeymoon and then even that you know follow-up for example my ex-wife changed her last name legally she went through the court the court process she got new social security card new driver's license new passport she changed her last name and we had a wedding we had family come out to it we went on a honeymoon to Hawaii we exchanged vows we had wedding rings what we never did though was go intentionally get a marriage license from the state of Nevada the state of Florida this is purposefully avoided and I also looked up research on common law to avoid that too common law marriage which they still have in Canada and I don't know about a dozen U.S. states yeah we have it we have we have that here in Colorado so what you're talking about yeah wouldn't work because if you if you come together and you identify as a couple if you have accounts together if you have kids together living together obviously kind of taxes all the sudden yeah doesn't matter whether you do a license marriage license or not you have to go through the courts to be able to pull out of that relationship yeah which is super gay and I hate that and so I looked into that and I was aware of that and I was like again no now this is not legal advice like you should definitely get an attorney involved if you want to do this and I should have at a young age I did it and that worked out but that was not guaranteed to work out and I was lucky and fortunate that it worked out the way it did in my quote unquote divorce that did not involve the government I lost zero dollars which for a man today is pretty damn good for a divorce or anything a question okay I don't before I answer I'm trying to get clarity because you know this language I don't understand what does he mean by preservation preservation by opt-in for what is what is the I understand what does that mean resource resource preservation like preserving a resource like Anthony just said he didn't have to pay out alimony or he didn't have to pay out you know half of his business or whatever for example I know an attendee from the convention who lost eight hundred thousand dollars back in like 2017 and his divorce right a lot of money okay but see this is the okay the reason why I understand the language is because this is the problem why he's going to be in the situation he's in because I can tell automatically this guy has no sense of self he has no beliefs he has no values and there's nothing about him that makes a woman say okay well you know what I got to respect this guy I mean I don't know with no disrespect I just be like you know I'm all about being honest the problem is everybody's always looking for the end result but they choose not to look at the beginning and the beginning is you got to look in the mirror man this is what I can tell guys you got to look in the mirror you're looking at the end result trying to see if you're preparing yourself for the end result which is fine that's okay but you're leaving the beginning wide open and the problem is is that you're not going to have those issues when you have a you're learning yourself we've been talking about self all day long here the key to this and it's not complicated but it's it's going to sound complicated because you don't have any beliefs there's nothing that you hold that is rooted deeply within yourself I'll challenge you a little bit on this because I'm somewhere I'm somewhere between you and him on this I don't believe there's any guarantees in life there's nothing all of us could die today in a car accident right right so even if you have all your shit together and you make a great choice in your woman and you you remain a masculine badass and all these things right if you stay a man there's no guarantee that's going to work out what private marriage does even better than a prenup is that it disables the ability for a woman to change her mind which women apparently do all the time for all of history and then blow up your family using the government as a tool to do it so no no I will say though that private marriage is not going to affect child custody much if at all which usually that's decided differently like even with a prenup you can't dictate what happens to children but in terms of divorce rate it's not it's impossible to get divorce rate if you don't get legally married or common law married can't get divorce raped zero percent chance I proved it well no no I know I hear what you're saying but what I'm saying is this before you even put a ring on the finger a lot of guys don't want to be honest and they knew she wasn't about she went about shit no yeah totally yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's what I'm saying what I'm saying is is they knew what she was but because they didn't know themselves they felt like a ring or a baby or something was going to change the complexity of the relationship and make things better where it made things worse and then you get bit at the end again you don't have to get married I mean I tell guys at the time don't get married if you I get married for kids if you want to have kids get married find a good woman you know or do what you want to do but I'm just saying that at the end of the day when you know who you are again that's life and we talked about life yeah you can do all the things you say and Anthony do everything right and everything like that and things go wrong what are you going to not what you're going to do about it and if you can or me the person asking that question is what are you going to do about it because all of us can give our insight from where how we see it but we're not living Mr. Jacobs life so Mr. Jacobs got to ask himself the question what do I do if I'm in that situation yeah anyway kind of known if you want to hop in on that or not but no I'm good thoughts on it yeah so private marriage I think is the way to go you are going to get married for kids if if you can do it in your state like I said yeah some states you can't if you yep it's just yeah yeah and that's that's unfortunate but yeah most states don't have common law but a lot of them still do like a dozen like Texas and Colorado I don't know what other ones but you can look it up it's not hard to figure out um yeah so that's it is what it is and I unfortunately I think that's the only reasonable way if you do want to get married today to do it if it's available to you I wouldn't I wouldn't even try I mean the prenup is better than nothing but I wouldn't I would avoid that even if I could I would just not get legally married in the first place there you go there's always options at the end of the day you got but you have tons of options don't get married do get married but just stand on what you do that's all yeah yeah and I'll tell you right now too when I did it having actually done this in real life with both families involved like you know we have 50 people come out to the to the wedding aunts and uncles and all these things and parents and whatnot and I got a lot of heat for it I mean these people some of these people were not happy they even my own family you know like what are you doing I'm like hey I'm doing it's it's very uh you know a man mindset kind of stuff like this is what I'm doing this is what I believe in yes and you're going to respect it and accept it or you're going to get out of here this is not there's not a discussion beautiful and I stood by my guns thank god and in the end that really played out very well for me given what happened the true nature of you know that relationship but but even in the future I'll do the same thing right but as you said I stuck to my guns you didn't stick their guns I stuck to my guns that's the key right there and I think a lot of guys are very skeptical that women will even be open to this today and I can tell you right now that they will be if you are a masculine man and you're internally validated and driven and you're firm in what you believe and you know why you believe it which even at I was 24 25 years old 24 yeah it was about 24 years old when we got married 24 and a half and I knew that I believed in this I knew that I didn't want the government I didn't want to invite the government without any good reason into my relationship my home and the family I was going to build I was like what is the purpose of this there's no good reason for it to do that I don't have to do it because I live in Florida and Nevada both don't have common law so I was like why am I going to do that no I'm going to do what I want to do I'm going to make it up at a thin air I'm going to do the research on it and I did and it worked out pretty well and I'll do it against them I look forward to it it's going to be awesome that's where you get the term side you guy, Anthony yeah Jesus yep all right boys I think with that said we will close out today's show I appreciate you guys coming on appreciate the questions in the chat you guys too yeah no doubt that was a lot of good questions today yeah it was fun a lot of good time I appreciate you guys watching not only live but later on the show everybody who watches whether it's live or later on hit the like button hit the share button drop a comment I appreciate that it helps the videos helps the channel helps the speakers give it give us all give us all that good external validation yes yes unlimited thumbs up externally validated it does help though guys like it really does it doesn't cost any money and it it helps YouTube understand that the videos are being engaged with and watched and interacted with and then YouTube likes that and helps promote the videos and stuff so it's good and you can also visit of course you guys know I'm at small man twitter beach muscles you can also find of course Dean Steve here at the manmindset.com and Ken Curry at solidman.com his books are on Amazon awakening the internal and embracing the void and two others as well yep so you'll find this all right I'll see you guys next week 11 a.m sharp peace out cool gentlemen