Hey everybody, today we're debating Flat Earth and we are starting right now. With Maddie's opening statement, Maddie, the floor is all yours. Thank you so much James. I'm really excited to be back. New topic for me. So hi team, I'm Maddie. You can find me here on YouTube at Science Side Up. I am a PhD student in meteorology at the University of Oklahoma. I have a bachelor's degree from MIT and Math and Earth Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences and I have a good working experience in the United States Navy as a nuclear instructor at Naval Nuclear Power School. And then after the Navy, I came to the university and now got my master's degree and now I'm working at my PhD. So that is sort of my background and credentials. And so what I would like to do with my opening statement is I had a chance to take a look at some previous points that Nathan has brought up regarding specifically Earth's atmosphere. And so I thought I would spend my opening statement addressing those points. So first thing, first claim from Flat Earthers that I've heard is that on a rotating sphere, the top of the atmosphere has to move faster than the air at the surface due to conservation of angular momentum. And then the statement about that is that that's impossible because one, because there's no force that would cause that motion. So one, that is something that's observed. The winds aloft travel much faster than winds at the surface. The thing which causes the difference in that air speed is just friction. It's just the contact force, it's friction between different layers of air or between the air and the surface. Now it's also true that to the reason that we measure those differences in winds is predominantly because of friction at the surface and not that conservation of angular momentum. So the Earth's atmosphere is much thinner than it is wide. So its horizontal scale is much larger than its vertical scale. And that's important because that's sort of like if I was going to spin in a circle like that, the tip of my finger is certainly moving faster than my elbow. And that's not sort of that's not really a big deal, right? Things that rotate, that's that's all okay. But when we're talking about the Earth's rotation and the difference between the rotation of the surface versus the top of the atmosphere, that's kind of like talking about the difference between the speed of say the tip of my finger and my first knuckle here. It's just not a huge difference. It's really not the big of a deal. So that's sort of that point. The second point I've often heard is that if the Earth was spinning, the atmosphere would behave like a giant blender, the blender effect where you would have sort of a whirlpool or something like that form at the center. And that's just an issue of geometry. So a blender is approximately a cylinder, right? And Earth is a sphere, right? So the geometry of fluid dynamics is very, very different between a sphere and a cylinder. So to get that sort of blender effect, you need a sharp top and bottom, like a very, very sharp, those would be the boundary conditions of our fluid dynamics problems. So one place you do see that type of blender effect where you can see the whirlpool type looking thing is going to be with something like a hurricane or a tornado. And for both of those, those are still compared to the size of the Earth. Those are very small features. And they effectively do have a hard boundary at the top and at the bottom. So the ground forms a hard, sharp boundary. And the top, it's the troposphere, the tropopause specifically, which is the, it's very difficult for atmosphere, air in the lowest layer of the atmosphere, the troposphere to move into the next layer of the air, the stratosphere and vice versa. So except for extreme cases and extreme events, you can consider the tropopause to be a sort of hard cap. So when you have a hurricane or a tornado, you have rising motion up to that hard cap and then it comes down and then that whole system is spinning. So you get something that locally does in fact look like a cylinder. But if you're talking about Earth's atmosphere as a whole, that geometry there, that is a sphere. And so it's not going to have that blender effect because you don't have that flat boundary condition at the top. Third point. If the Earth was spinning, then westward flights would have a thousand mile per hour headwind. North-south flights would have a thousand mile per hour crosswind. And I think it would be eastward flights would have a thousand mile per hour tailwind. That's sort of the claim. And that's also not going to be true. So Earth, excuse me, planes start here on planet Earth. So they're already moving at Earth's rate when they take off and throughout its flight. So for the same exact reason that it is not more difficult to walk up the aisle of a plane than it is down it, it is not more difficult for a plane to fly east than it is west. This has to do with relative motion. So the plane is already moving at the same speed as the atmosphere at the same speed of the Earth's rotation. So all movement here on terra firma boils down to relative motion. Maybe an easier way to think about it is if you and your buddy are riding in the car together, you're traveling at 60 miles an hour and do you see, I don't know, do people still play slug bug or punch bug, right? You see a Volkswagen bug on the road and you punch your friend. You don't hit them even if you were to say punch them from behind. So the direction of your punch, that direction of force is in the same direction that the car is moving. You don't hit them with the force of a moving car. You only hit them with the force of your fist, right? And then the last point that I have as a note to talk about is that if the Earth is rotating, why do we not observe plumes of say smoke or the plumes from volcanic eruptions to for the Earth to rotate under them? Why don't we observe what you see say like when you have exhaust from a train or a ship or something like that where the exhaust, the train is sort of moving faster than the exhaust, right? So you get this streak behind it. Why do we not see that if the Earth is rotating? And this actually this boils down to Earth real big, right? The Earth is very, very big. And so in order for an object on planet Earth to notice that it is rotating, that object needs to be about a thousand kilometers across anything smaller than that. And it's too small to feel Earth's rotation. So a great example of this would be think about you're on the merry-go-round at the park and you spin it really, really fast. If you get on that merry-go-round, you are going to feel the force of the rotation, right? You're going to feel that. That's because you're approximately the same size as the merry-go-round. But if you put like a little ant or a worm or a beetle, they would have absolutely no problem walking up, down and all around that merry-go-round. And they would probably not notice that it was rotating. Another way to think about that is I want you to do little thought experiment with me. Imagine for a moment that you are, you've got your car and you've got a big empty parking lot and you are going to do donuts, right? So you're doing donuts in this parking lot at like 60 miles an hour, right? Think about how that would feel, about how hard you would have to lean against the force of that car's rotation. So now imagine that you are driving your car at a constant 60 miles an hour, constantly turning, but what the, so the same type of motion as you are with doing the donuts in the parking lot, but instead you are, say, driving the perimeter of Utah or a circle approximation of the perimeter of Utah, right? It's the same thing. You're turning at a rate of 60 miles an hour, right? But you're not going to feel it in nearly the same way as you do when you're doing donuts and probably you probably won't even notice that you're turning if you're not paying attention to your compass. And that's because the size of the circle matters, right? So earth, again, earth real big, right? And that matters a whole lot when we're talking about planetary scales of motion of the atmosphere. I'm concerned I'm getting close to my 10 minute mark. I didn't see you when I started, but those were my four main points. And so I guess all I can concede the rest of my time attending them. Thank you very much. We will now kick it over to Nathan Thompson. Want to let you know if it's your first time here at Monterey Debate, we are a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. And so if this is your first time here, hit that subscribe button as we are thrilled to have many epic upcoming debates in the future, including tomorrow night. We'll have a juicy one. And so with that, we'll kick it over to Nathan Thompson for his 10 minute opening statement as well. Nathan, the floor is all yours. Thanks, James. I really appreciate the platform you run and the work you do. I've been a patron of you for a while. So thanks for that. All the debates you do, you put a lot of work, not just in the debate, but behind the scenes. Maddie, thank you for joining me for the debate. I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me to the audience. If you don't know who I am, my name is Nathan Thompson. I used to have a YouTube channel called Nathan Thompson, but that got deleted. I used to run the largest flat earth research group in the world, 150,000 members, but that got deleted. So the truth is getting buried, guys. They don't want anyone saying anything against high priest Fauci or the Lord and savior of COVID, Bill Gates. So just be careful out there. Make sure you test all things yourself and hold fast to that, which is true. I'm sorry, Maddie, but your entire opening was not proving Ursa Globe. You're just talking about stuff I say. So I don't, I think you have the same problem as a lot of the people who come into this and try and debate flat earth. It's that you haven't tested earth yourself. And that's kind of what I've done full time for the last five years. So it's a big problem. Condemnation before investigation, we're trained to do this in school.  And the idea of globe is always portrayed as, you know, such a savior of science and everything. They ingrain that in our minds. And so you can leave globe earthers to flat water, but you cannot make them think critically about the shape of the earth.  The truth is incontrovertible. Malice will attack it. Ignorance will try and deride it. But in the end, there it is. And an honest person, when proven to be wrong, must admit he is wrong, or he no longer remains to be an honest person. So the scriptures that I read, guys, say test all things and hold fast to that, which is true. So if anyone says, Nate thinks it's flat because it's in the Bible, well, what's also in the Bible is test all things and hold fast to that, which is true. Now, one of the things I've been doing on my clown world tour journey is getting to the bottom of these 150 proofs or so. I have memorized that the earth, I don't know if you can read those, but I did write a mirror image for you guys on the next page. So you should be able to read those. Leonardo da Vinci did all his journals mirror image. He was arguably one of the most creative people of all time. So I would look into that for sure, but we've got abyssal planes, guys. Accelerometer, Aries failure, airplane level flight, Elias effect, astroarcheology, which I have done on the tour. Every ancient civilization knew that the earth was flat. The Bedford level test with Samuel Robothel. Bar de Krenz is the world record photograph. You can see 270 miles. There's 50,000 feet of missing earth curve. I've tested earth in nine states and two continents. It's flat everywhere and not just that, but the sky is a map and a clock. We have 88 constellations and a northern pole star. They've been using the northern pole star and the 88 constellations to celestial navigate the oceans. Since all of the recorded history, they use astrolabes and sextants and we're not blasting through space. They say on the mainstream model, earth's moving half a million miles through the Milky Way. It's moving around the sun 66,600 miles an hour. It's spinning faster than the speed of sound, which is 666 knots per second, by the way. And it's got a circumference of 21,600 nautical miles, which is 6 times 600, by the way, which coincidentally matches up close to the moon's diameter, which is 2160, which is 6 times 6 times 60. But it all works, guys, because a big G, which is 6.67. It's a total joke, guys. I'm sorry that they teach this to children. I'm sorry adults propagate these lies. It's time for us to wake up, remove the scales from our eyes. So if an honest man's proven to be wrong, he must admit he is wrong or he no longer remains to be an honest man. So that was one thing I had to face is, am I going to be an honest man and tell people the truth about earth? Because I've tested it myself. I know it's not curving in all directions. If earth's a ball 24,901 miles around, like they say, that would necessitate the earth curve would be 0.666 feet per mile squared. I didn't make up that number. That's according to Pythagorean theorem, sagita, and autocad, which is an engineering program they used to make parts. I didn't make this up. This is the globe earth map. So it would curve that way in all directions. The problem is, let's say you include the observer height. Well, you include the observer height. Now the horizon would be 1.225 times the square root of the observer's height in feet. So at one foot, the horizon would be 1.225 miles out from the observer. The problem with that is, we falsified it with the black swan. So the horizon's actually 10 times farther than it should be, which means either earth's 10 times bigger of a ball than they say it is, which would make the circumference of the earth the orbital path of the moon, which means, well, basically NASA's lying about everything. Or the earth is flat and the horizon is apparent. It's not a geometric physical edge of a ball that boats disappear behind, because we've been doing this for five years. Get a high-power zoom camera or telescope. The boats that disappear bottom first, you can zoom in and still see them. Now, telescopes are, of course, obeying the laws of optics. So all things disappear due to the law of perspective. You can't see things forever when we're not Superman. And also, to everyone in the chat, you'll see people in the chat guys calling me Natalie. They're filled with hatred and they have nothing better to do than spend their Friday night listening to me and talking about me. But the scriptures say, blessed are you, when men curse you and revile you and speak all kind of evil against you falsely, for my namesake, rejoice for great is your reward in heaven. So don't you guys worry, I'm gonna throw a party for all you guys later. Thank you so much for the hate. I love it. If anyone else is a hater and they don't have anyone to hate on, feel free to hate on me. Okay. So that's my time. James, my opener, I can discuss Maddie's points back and forth. I think it's gonna be real cordial. She seems really cool. So that's what I got for you, James. You got it. We will jump into the open discussion, folks. I want to remind you of a couple of things. In particular, our guests are linked in the description. So if you'd like to hear more from our guests, you certainly can by clicking on those links and also want to let you know we are thrilled, you guys, as if you were listening via our podcast, which we are very excited that we are on podcast now. And so find us on your favorite podcast app. If you're listening to this debate via your favorite podcast app, want to let you know the links of the speakers are in the description there as well. And so you can also access our guest links through the podcast description box. And so with that, thank you very much. We will jump into open conversation, which we will, if it gets rowdy, kick it into two to three minute intervals between the speakers. The floor is all yours. Thanks so much, Maddie and Nathan. So, Nathan, I don't mind if there's something specific you want to chat about, but I would be really interested in talking with you about hurricanes. Okay, great. Real quick, I just want to say, you talked about two buddies moving in the car at 60 miles an hour. You remember that? Okay. Do you know that the two guys in the car, if the car is stationary, that they're also not going to feel any movement because it's stationary? Correct. Yeah, so movement at a constant velocity, right? So what we're talking about here is relative motion. So if they're both stationary, then they won't feel it, right? If I punch my buddy, then it's just the force of my arm. If we're moving at 60 miles an hour and I punch him, it's still just the force of my arm. The motion of the car doesn't affect how hard I punch my front, right? So it doesn't affect the relative motion. But if you're in a convertible and you throw a ball in the air, does the ball come right back down when you're going 60 miles an hour or does it fly behind you? So that's different. And do you know why? How's it different?  Okay. So the reason that the convertible is different than the closed car, and then I will answer your question. The reason that the convertible is different than the closed car is because the wind, right, the air outside is not moving at the same speed as the car. So when you throw a ball, right, that ball is now affected by the wind above, right? This had to be negative motion. So again, that's still relative motion. So if the, if the wind was not blowing, right, but I was driving 60 miles an hour, there is now 60 miles an hour going over my head, right? Okay. So is the Earth open like, so the Earth is not, the Earth does not have a lid, the atmosphere does not have a lid. So it is in fact open to space at a pressure gradient. So very analogous to my convertible example, not analogous to your car example. Now what you're saying defies the laws of fluid dynamics, okay? Which law is fluid dynamics? I know a lot of fluid dynamics, so which law? Great. So if you could chill out one second, I'm going to talk about it. So we go left and right with this paper, okay? All the air above, because air is also included in fluid dynamics, is not also moving left to right with this piece of paper. What happens is it rolls over the top, okay? And all the air at the top of the car is pretty much unaffected. Now what you're saying is Earth's rotating and all the air is moving with it, which is not fluid dynamics, not analogous to everything we see in nature. Can you demonstrate that or not? Yes. So same thing with like the ocean, right? Okay, so the difference here, right, is that the atmosphere is part of the Earth system, right? And it is held to the Earth by gravity, right? So the atmosphere is held to the Earth by gravity, so then I guess I'm not even sure, is your question, how does the Earth's atmosphere move with the Earth? That's your question? What's your question? You could demonstrate it, you said yes, and then started talking about magical gravity glue, which never been proven. I want to get to in a minute, whether we're talking about Einsteinian or Newtonian gravity, because neither of those have ever been proven, and they've been falsified by things like terminal velocity. That's still not true, dude. But let's put the gravity aside for a second. I'm trying to understand what it is you don't understand about behavior of the Earth's atmosphere, like the boundary between the atmosphere and space. Like I don't understand. So, okay, I'm trying to get you to demonstrate what you're saying happens. Can you demonstrate all the gas moving with the object spinning the gas or not? Tornado, tornado is an object that is spinning gas where everything then also moves together. Okay, but what's the cause of a tornado? The cause of a tornado is of a warm, moist air mass colliding with a cold, dry air mass. So not the Earth rotating? No, different thing causing the rotation. So what I asked is you to demonstrate one thing spinning, causing all the fluid to move with it cohesive as one synchronous body. Not a tornado. You can't use hurricanes. So you get a turntable, right? Or like a pottery wheel, right? Okay, so you get it spinning at a constant rate. You put a bowl, right? And at first, the water might spl- and fill that bowl with water, put it on the rotating pottery wheel, okay? At first, some of that water is going to splash out, but as that whole body spins up to speed, it will make a parabolic shape and be constant. The whole thing moving at the speed of the table, not at like not at a relative motion. That's not what happens with a blender. Cool. That's absolutely what happens with a rotating table. Okay, but not with a blender. So when a blender spins, okay, so the Earth has topography, it would blend the atmosphere, which is actually what mainstream science teaches, that we have a Coriolis effect. So you, right now, saying the atmosphere moves as one cohesive body, you're what's called a Coriolis denier. You are denying mainstream science and what mainstream science sets. So do you know that? I'm an atmospheric scientist. I am absolutely, I'm not a Coriolis denier. Coriolis force is absolutely real. And the, as a whole, the atmosphere is moving with planet Earth. And then variations are atmospheric circulation and winds. But we're not here to talk about general atmospheric circulation driven by, I mean, we can do that if you want. If you want to talk about thermally driven atmospheric circulation and how the Coriolis effect affects that, we absolutely can. But you're completely misunderstanding if you think that what I just said is against mainstream science. No, it is. You just said Coriolis force is real. And then you said the atmosphere moves with the Earth. Now those are actually contradicting terms. So I'm going to need, can you stop interrupting me please? So I'm going to need you to please define what Coriolis is. Coriolis is a force which acts on a rotating fluid. The easiest way to think about it is if you have a bead, you put it on a bike spoke, you spin the bike spoke, that bead is going to move radially outwards from the center of the bike spoke. So what happens for Earth system is here in the Northern Hemisphere where I live, the Coriolis force causes air to move. It's to the right of its own motion. And this happens. Again, something has to be about a thousand kilometers across to notice the Coriolis, to notice Earth's rotation. You also have to be north of about 10 degrees latitude because Coriolis increases from zero at the equator to its maximum at the North Pole with the beta plane approximation being a maximum at the equator and goes to zero at the pole. That's important for weather forecasting, not so much for what we're talking about. It's kind of in the details. So that is why hurricanes, Northern Hemisphere hurricanes are always going to rotate in a counterclockwise direction. Southern Hemisphere hurricanes always rotate in a clockwise direction. Tornadoes, however, because they are much smaller, can rotate either clockwise or counterclockwise. Are you done? Answered your question. No, you didn't at all. So you said it's a force that affects rotating bodies. And then you use the beads. Please don't interrupt me. I know you want to talk. Okay.  You're going to get to talk when I'm done talking, maybe get a pen and then take some notes so that while I'm talking, you can respond after that would be the polite thing to do. So instead of force that acts on rotating bodies, okay, cool story, but very vague. Then you went on to describe not Coriolis, but centrifugal force, ladies and gentlemen. This lady who claims to be studying or PhD said the beads, when you spin the wheel, the beads going outward is example of Coriolis. No, it's not at all whatsoever. That's evidence of centrifugal force. You don't even know your forces. I'm sorry. I don't think you're qualified for this debate. How many times have you tested earth yourself and where and with what equipment? Okay. So first, if I misspoke and did centrifugal, then I misspoke. No, you're still got it wrong. It's centrifugal, not centrifugal, centrifugal. You're talking about two different forces. You still haven't got it right, okay? Just so you know. We're now going to give Maddie a chance to talk. Yeah. Okay. So one Coriolis is not something which affects rotating bodies. It's a force which affects objects that are on rotating bodies. Important difference there. What objects does it affect? Nathan, I do want to give her a chance to respond to all the points that you had made. She's super vague, James. I'm trying to get her one object. So right, but there were points where, for example, when she asked you what law of thermodynamics, like so my idea here is let's just give her a chance to respond to all the points you had made. I promise we'll give you a chance to ask that question that you have right now. Okay. So as I said when I was explaining hurricanes versus tornadoes, Coriolis is going to affect objects on rotating bodies that are of a similar size. You can do scale analysis there to determine what the appropriate size is for the strength of the Coriolis. So of a similar size to the body that is rotating. So that's again this good idea of what you feel when you're doing donuts versus if you were driving around Utah. So then I would like to get to your second question which was what have I personally done to test that the earth is a globe? Right. So I have personally shot a laser at the moon. That was very fun. That's not going to work. One that wouldn't work at all if we hadn't been to the moon if the earth wasn't a globe. If we didn't understand these things because we shot a laser at the moon, hit a mirror that was left there by the Apollo missions and it bounced back. It was very cool. That was a NASA Goddard. So I've done that. Two, while hurricanes are not my specific field of research, hurricanes would not form if the earth wasn't rotating. Everything that I know about weather doesn't work if the earth isn't rotating. So if the earth wasn't rotating, the great Arctic cyclone of 2012 would not have negatively impacted the September sea ice extent from that year because we wouldn't have had a TPUV, tropospolar vortex, which are only going to form because of the strength of the Coriolis over the pole. So my guess, my short answer to your question is what have I personally done to test that the earth is round? Literally, my entire academic career depends on that being true or else we couldn't forecast the weather or else we couldn't, tropospolar vortices wouldn't exist in that. So that's a field of my research. So if the earth wasn't rotated, if the earth wasn't a sphere, these things wouldn't be true. So Nathan, I do have a question for you. I got to respond to all that. You talked for like three minutes, okay, and then you can ask your question. So write the question down, please. James, can I respond? I think if you had a question earlier, Nathan, I do want to give Nathan a chance to ask that because I think he had a clarifying question that I rejected earlier. So I'll leave you with that. I asked how she tested earth. She said, I pinged the moon, which doesn't prove the floor curves at all. Also, just so you know, you said you hit the mirrors that NASA left there when they were doing doughnuts in the rover 60 years ago, but can't go back and talk to the president with a ton dialed telephone.  But the problem with that is they pinged the moon in the early 60s before the mirror was up there. Did you know that? I do know that what we measured specifically was the time it took to get there and come back. So you can't get that reflection, the precision without a mirror. So you can hit the moon with a laser without a mirror. You can't get a signal back without a mirror. Yeah, but you assume the medium that it's traveling through. You don't know the speed of light and you don't know the medium that it's traveling through either. You assume it. You want to go with, I don't know the speed of light. Yeah, well, it's a rate of induction. There is no speed of light. It's assumed. You don't have a medium in like as powerful as the vacuum of space to test light and confirm. So it's all based on assumptions. Now, on top of that, just that was your first point. Then you said your second testing earth and proving it's a globe was everything you know about hurricanes wouldn't work on a flat earth. Now, I have to ask you this. Do you know what electromagnetic wake is? And if you do, what is it? An electromagnetic wake. I am going to go ahead and let you explain what that is. So you don't know what it is. So of course, you don't understand how hurricanes, it's not in your textbook. They're not teaching you how they actually work. So of course, you're going to say, well, I don't have to test earth. They just ping time the moon. And then I know a lot about weather because I read a lot of books, but you don't even know what an electromagnetic wake is Maddie. So why don't you tell me what an electromagnetic wake is? Okay. Why don't we talk later? Because I got a lot of other things to cover. Like for example, you said it has to be true or we couldn't couldn't forecast. Do you know the forecast is wrong like 50% of the time? I travel around full time data for that. I travel around full time looking at the forecast and trust me, they're not always right. Are you going to say they're always right with the forecast? I'm not going to say they're always right. Okay. Great. So they're wrong. So basically you're saying, if we didn't know the earth was a globe, we wouldn't be able to get the forecast wrong sometimes. Like that's your argument. This is a joke guys. Maddie, where have you tested earth and found it curving in all directions? So I'm going to go back to the point you said earlier, which was you asked me, did I know that the forecasts are wrong? So let's say hurricane trajectories. That's a good one. By weaning national weather service, forecast the location of a hurricane three to five days out with about 90% accuracy. So do you want to go with that that's incorrect? If we look at it- 90% accuracy. You're saying that they're wrong sometimes. Wow, this completely ruins the whole argument. Hold on, I do want to, Nathan, hold on, if you do ask her a question in terms of like, whether or not they're wrong. No, you did ask something to the effect of so they are wrong sometimes. I do want to give her a chance to respond. They are wrong. She just said they are. Yeah, she conceded 10% of the time. And so you had brought up that they are wrong that 10% of the time as a response to her pointing out the 90%. And so I want to give her a chance to respond to that. And if you look overall at just general weather forecasting, numerical weather models have an accuracy of, I think it's in the 70s for a seven day forecast. If you look at how that's improved over the last few decades. So a great example would be the recent snowfall in Texas that was forecasted seven days out that the snowfall was going to happen. So everything has errors, right? Everything has errors. Nothing is perfect, especially when we're predicting the future, right? But weather forecasting is incredibly good. And it wouldn't be if the earth wasn't a rotating sphere. Everything has errors. What about the eclipses? Can we predict the eclipses or no? Can we, so forecasting eclipses, not my field, but knowing when a lunar eclipse is going to happen, we do know that long time in advance. Oh, okay. But are they wrong or are they right? You said you can't predict everything perfectly. But are they wrong? Because they actually use the sorrel cycle, which was way predates the globe model. Are you familiar with the sorrel cycle? If you want to talk about the differences in orbital mechanics versus fluid mechanics and why those are fundamentally different, we totally can. Why can't you just answer a question? I asked you if you knew what the sorrel cycle is. The answer is yes, I know what it is. Nathan, what you can do is, I don't know what it is. Nathan, what I'm okay with is after she finished, if you want to say that and you want to say hey, I did ask a question earlier and you still haven't answered it, you only said this, that's okay. But I do want to give her a chance to respond because there is some interrupting here. So again, if you want to talk about the difference between forecasting an eclipse versus forecasting the weather, I'm all to do that, but those are very different in terms of your exact question of what a sorrel cycle is. I don't know that term off top of my head. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, it's how we predict eclipses, and they are accurate all the time, just so you know, like they've never predicted eclipse and then have them be wrong when the prediction is just so you know. Now I have a question. Are sun rays parallel or are they not parallel? Parallel to what surface? Parallel to each other. Are sun rays parallel to each other? Do they come down? Sun rays. Oh, excuse me. Sorry. I heard rise. It's all good. Are sun rays parallel? So sun rays are going to, the rays of the sun are, they're propagating radially outward. So very locally, they will appear, like for what you and I can see, they will look parallel, but they're not strictly parallel. So they are parallel, but they're not parallel. What I said was locally, they're going to appear to be straight. But if we think about this from the size of the earth, sun rays are emitted radially outwards from the sun constantly. So there is an angle. Do you know what perpuscular rays are?  What are perpuscular rays? Those are the rays that we get from the sun. They're not parallel. They're all converging to one point. You just said they were parallel locally, and that's what we observe, but it's not what we observe. We observe perpuscular rays. Do you know how you create perpuscular rays? No. There's three constituent parts you need. Okay. You need a localized light source. You need obstruction, such as the clouds, and you would need some sort of particulates in the air, like water vapor, aqueous particles, dust, that sort of thing. So you can't duplicate perpuscular rays with a sun that's 93 million miles bigger than the earth, 93 million miles away and bigger than the earth, just so you know. You need a small localized light. Okay. I would really, I mean, if you, I'd really like to focus on like things that are my field, right? So I'd like to stick to the atmosphere. This is all my field. Okay, the atmosphere. Can you have gas pressure without a container? Yes. Can you demonstrate that? Planet earth. That's the thing you're trying to prove. So you're using circular logic. It's a fallacy. Do you know what circular logic is? I do know what circular logic is. Okay, so other than what you believe earth is, can you demonstrate gas pressure? I know what circular logic is, but the point is that planetary scale processes are only going to happen on a planetary scale. So I can point to Jupiter. I can point to Venus. I can point to earth, right? And we can chat about the weight of the air above us, right? But so I actually got a question for you. So we can't just breeze by that. Okay, can you? It's related to questions as well, right? It's really a question. Is it related to gas pressure not requiring container? We're still talking about that. Okay. So if we have gas in a pressurized container, right? Talk to me about the density of the gas throughout that container. Is it constant? Does it change? Yeah, but it's in a container without the container. You wouldn't have any pressure. But what about the density of the gas? Is it constant? It's not analogous to your earth you believe in because you're using a container. You realize that, right? Yeah, I got it. Okay, so as pressure requires a container. My question is, is the density of the gas in that closed container a constant? Well, that depends. Is it not if it's inhomogeneous and anisotropic such as introducing a heat source? Like you do realize we have a sun and a moon above our heads, right? Okay, so if the sun's heating up the earth and then the hot air rises, and then the cold air moves in, so it's constantly mixing around all the time? Yes, you would have what's called a... Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be talking while you were interrupting me. Go ahead. So great. Density is affected by temperature. Excellent. So is the earth... Is our atmosphere heated from the top or from the bottom? Sun, moon? The top or the bottom? I don't know. I don't know for sure. I don't know. I'll make assumptions of what the sun is. I have a theory that the sun might actually be cold and that the heat comes from the earth. So that's one of my theories. Now, they actually tell us in mainstream science that the earth is hotter than the surface of the sun. Now, they want you to believe what's under your floor is hotter than the surface of the sun, and every night you go to bed and wake up, put your shoes on, and that heat doesn't radiate outwards, violating the second law of thermodynamics, because if you put your hand on a hot stove, it will burn you 100 out of 100 times. If you put gas in a vacuum, the gas will disperse omnidirectionally in all directions every single time. Now, this person I'm debating will tell you, yeah, that's true, except with planets. Except if you talk about Jupiter, because that's definitely a ball of space in a vacuum. No, it's not. It's a firmament light source. So it's locked in the firmament, the word planet means wandering stars. All the stars are fixed and rotating. The planets move independently of the rotating star plane.  I asked, when you've tested earth and proven its globe, you said ping times, you ping the moon, which they did prior to the mirrors. And then you said everything you know about hurricanes. I mean, I'm sorry, but that is not testing earth. You are not a real researcher.  So we were talking about whether the earth was heated, that the atmosphere is heated. It is true. So the sun comes in and it comes through the atmosphere, heats the earth and then the earth heats the lowest layer of the atmosphere. No, that's not what we were talking about. I was talking about how space is fake, gas pressures require a container, you're going on and on about the differences of gas pressure inside of a container.  And now you're asking me how it works in a container. I'm not asking how it works in a container. What I'm trying to get at, Nathan, what I'm trying to get at here is that the density of our atmosphere is greatest at the surface overall, and it decreases as you go up through the atmosphere. Right? Wow. Do you agree with that? Wow, we have a density gradient.  So we have gas pressure around us that we breathe. Did you know the necessary antecedent for gas pressure is a closed container? Okay. The other thing that you said, the other thing that you said is that warmer air leads to lower density, right? I didn't say that. Okay, you said that it doesn't relate to the earth. Nathan, we do have to let Maddie finish. It doesn't relate to the shape of the earth. It's nothing to do with the shape of earth. Listen, Nathan, we do have to let Maddie have more than just a few words. Okay, go ahead, Maddie. Continue on. This is good. Matt. So what I'm trying to talk about is, so you said, I asked you about the density. If we have something in a closed container, that the way to affect the density of the gas in that closed container is by increasing the temperature. So where we have the warmest temperature, we're going to have the lowest density. That's ideal gas law, right? But here on planet earth, we have the warmest temperatures of the surface, which is also where we have the highest density of air. So in this example, right, where the only thing in your view, the only thing that keeps earth's air down, that keeps us having air pressure is some sort of lid. How do you get that density gradient that we observe? That's my question. Hydrogen, helium, lithium, bromine, boron, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, chlorine, neon, so they all have different anatomical weights. So obviously they separate out based on their density to one another. However, that's not what's observed because if you measure the relative concentration of say nitrogen and oxygen here. I already told you it's all getting mixed up. You have to let Nathan, you do have to let her finish. I already told her it's all getting mixed up. I already told her why, too. This reminds me of November. So what we can do is if you want afterwards, you can definitely say, hey, I've already addressed that point and you're repeating the same point, but you have to let people finish, Nathan. So what you said is that the density is caused by different gases separating out. But if we measure the relative concentration, the partial pressures of nitrogen and oxygen and water vapor, it's the same relative concentrations here as it is on the top of Mount Everest. So it's the same mixture, but temperature is different and we have the highest density here at the surface. So how does that happen? Okay, what you're not understanding is that you haven't proven an Earth curve. You haven't proven Earth rotates. You haven't proven space is real because it violates the second law of thermodynamics. And now you're asking me, when you go to top of Mount Everest, the air is really similar to the air on the ground. Maddie, listen, let's be really clear. If we're not going to talk about Earth curving, Earth rotating, or your fake fairy's tale space and how it violates the second law of thermodynamics, I'm not here to have a conversation about air on Everest that you have never tested and I have never tested. You've never tested it. You just read it in a textbook somewhere, believe that crap, and now you're spewing it like it's true on modern day debate. Everything I talk about, star trails, cold moonlight, long distance side observations, I've tested. They ping the moon before the mirrors were up there. So whatever you did wasn't proof of anything. And then you went on to say, I understand hurricanes and you don't even know what electromagnetic wakes are. So we're going to get right back to it. Does the Earth rotate under objects that you throw in the air? Yes or no? Not noticeably. So no, we don't notice Earth rotate under objects. Did you know Neil deGrasse Tyson said on his Twitter, the Earth rotated under a field goal during the Super Bowl? Did you know that? So according to Neil deGrasse Tyson, who's the most famous PhD astrophysicist in the world, you're over here saying he's wrong. He doesn't know what he's talking about. I think you're wrong. You don't know what you're talking about. You've got to go test Earth because there is no Coriolis. You know there's no Coriolis. You know Earth doesn't rotate under objects that are thrown in the air. You just admitted it. You said, no, we don't observe Earth rotating under objects.  Congratulations. Me too. I don't think Earth has a Coriolis. We can be Coriolis deniers together. Okay, so let's move on to Earth curve. I'm going to address your points. I'm going to address your points. So one, you made a claim that I haven't tested things on Everest. I've looked at the weather balloon data actively. So without actually physically going to Everest, weather balloon data is the closest you can get. Someone gave you weather balloon data and you read it and believed it. And you think that's science? You think that's being a real scientist? You think that's testing Earth yourself, reading data someone else collected? How do you know they gave you the right data? So the second thing, the second point you made, the second point you made was that I said that the Earth doesn't rotate under objects when you throw it up. What I very specifically said was not noticeable because for it to be noticeable, as I said, even in my opening statement, the object needs to be about a thousand kilometers across or you got to wait a long time, probably about half a day. I don't have time to wait for that. I'm not strong enough to throw something a thousand kilometers across up in the air and I'm not strong enough to throw something up in the air long enough that the Earth can noticeably rotate underneath that. So do you know how big a ring laser gyro is? A ring laser gyro. So help me out man. Which one are you talking about? Give me some specs. Are any ring laser gyros in the world a hundred kilometers wide? Thousand kilometers? I'm sorry, Nathan, we got to give Maddie more than just one or two words, that way we have roughly the same amount of time being used by each of you. So I also said that it has to be very big or you have to wait a long time. So a laser gyroscope can absolutely measure Earth's rotation. The same thing, the simple pendulum experiment can measure Earth's rotation, right? How long do you have to wait for Earth to rotate under you? I mean a while, order of magnitude hours. Hours? Great. So when a hot air balloon goes up for a few hours, does the Earth rotate under the hot air balloon? Yes, there are also the local forces of winds which are going to be more noticeable. Two things happen at the same time. Nathan, just to be sure, I do want to give Maddie enough time to answer these questions. It's oftentimes it's not as simple as like a yes or no, we got to give Maddie a shot to give more than just one or several words. It is that simple. It's not dude, it's really not. Hot air balloon goes up, Earth is rotating under it and 50 not winds are hitting it. Which do you think is going to be more noticeable? What if there's no wind? Does the Earth rotate under the hot air balloon or not? In a fictional scenario where there is absolutely no atmospheric motion, yes. There's no wind outside right now, what are you talking about? You honestly believe that there's always wind at all times? Yes. Okay, so in a fictional scenario with no wind or very low wind, does the Earth move under a hot air balloon, Maddie? Yes or no? Yes. Oh it does. That's interesting because every hot air balloon I've observed or time lapses of hot air balloons I've observed, the Earth is not rotating under the hot air balloon. Do you know why winds aloft are much stronger than surface winds? So you're going back to wind? We have not stopped talking about wind. No, no, I said in a fictional scenario with no wind and then you went back to talking about wind.  And then you said we never observed a hot air balloon to have the Earth rotate underneath it. To get to that scenario dude, we had to assume no wind right? There is never no wind aloft. There is never no wind. Okay, what about an insect that hovers three inches off the ground inside of a house with no wind? Does the Earth rotate under a bumblebee inside of a house with no wind? That's such a non-sensical question. She can't even respond. She didn't even answer the question. The reason that's a non-sensical question. Oh so an insect inside of a house. I just told you we're going to give her a chance to respond. The reason that's a non-sensical question is because in this scenario what you need is for say the bee to hover and that's not hover in the same spot relative to the floor that's in the same spot relative to the relative position on Earth. So we have to hover here. Bees can't do that right? Neither can hummingbirds not for long enough for the Earth's rotation to sort of for you to notice and what you would notice would be very small. So what you can do is hang a pendulum which will be still and will hover and that you can absolutely trace out the Earth's rotation. It's an elementary school science experiment but if you want an animal to do it that's nonsensical.  What about a drone? Would the Earth rotate under a drone if you had a flying in the air for a few hours? Once again it's going to be affected by winds but yes. What if it's in a building? Does the Earth rotate under a drone in a building? Yes you're not going to notice it though. Oh yes but you won't notice it. All right ladies and gentlemen you heard it here first. Yes it will happen but you won't notice it so it's happening but you just can't tell it's happening. Make sense? Again replace the drone with a pendulum and then you'll be able to see. No it's not just a pendulum okay if you can't just have one thing Earth rotates under that you keep going back to going back to and if the Earth doesn't rotate under everything it doesn't rotate under a pendulum. You got it? Do you know why the pendulum is special? Like why do we use a pendulum and not a drone to do this experiment? Why do we do that? It's not an experiment. Sure it is. No it's not. Experiments start with an observation in nature so it's not an experiment. You don't have pendulums in nature you're just randomly coming across. You know that right? Is your question do I know that we do not come across pendulums hanging in nature or is your question do I know what an experiment is? Does an experiment require a naturally occurring phenomenon? No. No? Okay what's the first step of an experiment? The first step of an experiment would be to you have a hypothesis and you devise a way to test your hypothesis. You just make up hypothesis and then you do experiments that's what you do. Did you know the first step? Yep that's what I do all day every day. Okay did you know the first step of a real experiment is actually make an observation? Define observation. Observing something in nature not make a hypothesis in your mind and conjure up things in your mind. Wait so I observe that all I observe that all hurricanes in the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise. Yeah because you don't even know what an electromagnetic wake is and then you ask me to tell you what it is. Can you explain it?  You were supposed to submit evidence ursa spinning tilted globe and I was supposed to show you no it's wrong. So far you have not presented any evidence of earth curve. You've contradicted yourself over and over on earth rotation and then you talk about gas requiring a container when that destroys your entire heliocentric model. So I never. This is bad. Nathan I want to give Mattie a chance to respond to those points and let's see yeah we're getting close to it but I do want to give Mattie a chance to respond and I do also want to give Mattie a chance if you have any questions Mattie want to give you a chance to ask those as well. Okay so few things you said I've claimed that I have not so I just want to make sure that that's clear. I you do not need you do not need a lid for the earth to have atmospheric pressure right we have atmospheric pressure and we have the density gradient that we observe because of the fall off by one over distance squared of gravity right so gravity is stronger at the surface we hold more things weakens as you go away density decreases it's a very simple relationship um and that force of gravity is in fact much stronger than the density gradient you get from heating to you said I don't know what the scientific method is or I don't know a lot of these other things um I have a I have a deeper understanding of the scientific method than what's taught in fourth grade right so you can quote a textbook at me you can quote what we teach children about how science works and that is all well and good um but you're definitely misrepresenting um points and you're misrepresenting how the scientific method works to all of the points I've brought up um regarding behavior of earth's atmosphere um Coriolis which absolutely is a real thing um and behavior of hurricanes behavior of density um behavior of atmospheric density um and atmospheric pressure and things and and concentrations these are all things that are perfectly and easily explained these observations right make perfect sense with a globe earth held together by gravity where the atmosphere is held down by gravity and they don't make sense to my knowledge of what of how a flat earth would work so if you can't demonstrate how a flat earth would explain observed phenomena differences in density gradients atmospheric phenomena things like that then there's no value to your model right so if it can't make predictive power which globe model can again that's how weather forecasts work um and lots of other things I'm just most familiar with weather um so I think uh that's that's going to be my point if you haven't been able to address any of the issues I've brought up with something flat earth would need to be able to explain if it were true right um you haven't been able to do that and in every instance you've responded not so much to my points but by changing the topic and by becoming incredulous which I think is a good debate tactic but it's not the best for like honest conversation and so that I'm I'm okay to go into um to go into question time and and less james uh if unless Nathan would like to respond sounds like we're ready to go into question time want to let you know folks we appreciate you hanging here whether or not you are flat earth globe earth you name it and want to let you know our guests are linked in the description if you want to hear more and that includes if you were listening to us via podcast want to let you know our guests links are in the description of the podcast as well we really do appreciate you hanging out with us like I said no matter what walk of life you were from and with that we will be going into the q and a and so thanks so much this first question let me just coming in from hey james yeah we're gonna skip all the rude questions because I got better things to do okay yeah we do want to remind you out there folks that we would like to ask you to attack the arguments rather than the people and that includes matty as well and even Nathan so basically um like what kidding Nathan we are going to jump into this with our first question this one coming in from do appreciate it oh gosh sorry guys i'm having trouble i'm having tech i've got boomer tech problems over here two seconds thanks for your question k-024 says lights in the sky change color sometimes quote unquote Nathan Thompson science communicator science is this one of your claims Nathan that lights in the sky change color sometimes and in particular can you remind me what the context of this is because globers say well how does flat earth explain all lunar eclipse well guys your heliocentric high priest call it the impossible eclipse they have a selenil on eclipse where the lunar eclipse is observed to a single observer above the horizon while the sun is still uh can be seen to the single observer they call it the impossible eclipse so really guys how do lunar eclipses work on the globe model so i just say yeah lights in the sky they change color sometimes big deal the floor is flat you can test it so quit asking us how the sky works when the floor is flat you can test it got you this one coming in from signa sigma n e says Nathan why is the arc to chord correction required to yield an accurate closed planar traverse from precise spatial measurements why do the basic computations otherwise fail without it yeah you sound smart to dumb people but the thing is they've been celestial navigating with the sky for thousands of years that's how they do it unless they're using gps which is ground positioning system they've got six million towers 600 000 in the us then they use temporary helium balloons and they also use modified u2 spy planes and fiber optic submarine communication cables to move around all the data gotcha robert greenley says why is nathan afraid to debate me who as i'm an actual pilot and they said i've offered many times to debate him but he asked for let's see an honorarium nathan do you want to debate robert greenley i don't debate every loser who has a job who emailed me at any time to be fair we uh the same thing we want to ask same thing as we have asked the guests to not attack the person we want to ask uh i think we're starting to we're there's a lot of rules and flux right now in terms of we're thinking about changing to you could say straighten things up and so i want to let you know about that flatter's news says here to support nathan got a fan out there nathan and flatter's news says does maddie plan on proving any experiment or demonstration for what goes on at the top of the atmosphere or is she just going to claim this um i guess that's for me um a great so for what goes on i'm sorry i'm not quite sure what the question is specifically asking you bet i can read it again i think that my connection was ebbing and flowing there so they had asked flatter's news says does maddie plan on proving any experiment or demonstration for what goes on at the top of the atmosphere or is she just going to claim regarding what's going on at the top of the atmosphere i think that is referring to that there is not like a top right um to the atmosphere um so i mean i can i can demonstrate that with little math and some chalkboard and a chalkboard on it's it's the one over a distance squared law of of gravity is that is my short answer to that because we're into question time gosh and isaia 4022 says maddie where's the scientific experiment that a vacuum can exist next to a pressurized atmosphere without a solid physical barrier separating them oh okay yeah so this is really just um this is just a density gradient right so um one um when even when we're talking about vacuum like in our solar system there's still some particles and atoms floating around um so what we have there's no like solid boundary between where our atmosphere ends and where space begins it's very much a gradient um the overwhelming majority of the mass of the atmosphere is down here in the troposphere where we live and breathe um so it's think of it very much as we go from uh it just sort of it decreases to zero right it's a nice happy gentle transitional gradient um from here on earth surface where we have like a thousand hectopascal pressure um to you know approximately zero um where where it becomes space uh so yeah it's just the it's just the density gradient and again it's the one over distance squared law for gravity gosh and thanks very much for your question from k024 says nathan sometimes your explanations are a bit technical could you please put your answer for lunar eclipses which was quote lights in the sky change color sometimes into layman terms for me yeah they've been predicting i'm using the soro cycle for a thousand years now save admits they use the soro cycle on their website so there you go that's how they predict the eclipses it's actually light polarization del's theorem look up del's theorem you had a third polarization and it gets brighter which is weird because when you polarized object at first it gets darker so check it out pretty interesting also eclipses are going red glowing red and purple not black shadows are black guys the moon's light is cold it's not reflecting sunlight you could test it with a 30 laser thermometer super simple super next up this one coming in from chris gammon says for both speakers if i had a jet with super speed and endless fuel and i pointed it at the sunset and flew directly towards it if i could go fast enough i wouldn't see the sunset right proves globe no no yeah that's true well the faa trains pilots on the target generation facility so every airplane pilot is trained to fly on a flat non-rotating earth and in the software they actually negate a gravity vector so yeah you'd cruise it to cruising altitude you'd fly level chase the sun and you actually can do that in a blackbird or some of the faster planes because they go faster than the speed the sun travels or in your guys's religion how fast the floor is moving a thousand miles an hour oh my gosh okay isaiah 4022 says maddie why doesn't the merry go around suck the ant to the center of the mass yeah no it's it's uh the same scale analysis so the the ant is small enough that it's not really affected by the rotation gotcha thanks very much and then thanks very much for your question this one coming in from jordan smith says how is austin let's see um next up i don't want to get involved in that next up chris gammon says let's see never debate and drive nathan and then next up there's a joke just relax okay kango two forces nathan you have been proven to be wrong dozens of times but you still make the same arguments and uh nathan agree or disagree no i debunked the globe like seven times on this clown world tour guys like i don't know what you're talking about but no one's proved me wrong definitely not maddie who says she proved earth's curve with pink times from the moon next up we're well we got to give maddie a chance to respond since you're gonna you're bringing maddie up forgive me a brag do you have a response maddie nope gotcha sleepy dan thanks for your question says once you go first uh once you go flat you never go back quote unquote is easily proven false like all flat earth claims there are many x flat earthers like seek truth speak truth nathan yeah no no such thing i mean whatever um nobody goes back to believing in santa claus nobody goes back to believing cartoon tilted earth so real because bunch of wires on wires and pools and pools told us that is true like give me a break dude next up question the answers says the lines are being drawn every knee she'll bow it's dead fast beloved the truth defends itself all for god's glory those who seek truth find it simple uh i do want to i can't remember who brought it up um because he had asked a lot of questions before but well let me just jump amy newman thanks for your super chat side after show at my channel for nathan can't someone just break drone laws or buy a rocket in order to collect evidence for the earth not being round and by the way amy has an after show that is linked in the description and that's right next to our guest links so encourage you to check that out go ahead nathan what why are uh for nathan can't someone just break drone laws or buy a rocket to collect evidence for the earth not being round rocket launches are parabolic all drone footage show a flat level horizon and that's a snoop dog fallacy where you think you got to get high and go up there to prove where you live we walk around on the floor all day long you don't need to get high to prove the earth is not a globe because if it's a globe it would curve in all directions according to the dimensions they gave us point six six six feet per mile squared in all directions i mean have you guys heard this a million times yet what are we doing what are we doing right now gosh thanks for your question this one coming in from mitchellan says all of these things have been explained let's see uh to nathan thousands of times he just refuses to engage nathan agree or disagree who's story next up flatter news says globe myth believers have the best stories okay well uh let's see tim prier says historian jeffrey russell claims with extraordinarily few exceptions no educated person in the history of western civilizate civilization from the third century bc onward believe that the earth was flat nathan you are wrong again b word believe believe he thinks the floor is a belief like you have to believe what the floor is how stupid is that wow kango 2 4 says nathan you literally know nothing about fluid dynamics please stop saying fluid dynamics oh and gravitational waves have been detected by l i g o icos is just a giant sagna c interferometer sagna himself who invented technology said it just detects the rotating ether so not gravitational waves the ether next up thanks brian cornell for your question said our supposed orbit around the sound um around the sound is an elliptical orbit and he looked elliptical orbit would mean there is no acceleration how do we not feel this that's for maddy can read that again maddy yeah one more time it's a mouthful they said our supposed orbit around the sun is an elliptical orbit an elliptical orbit would mean there is an acceleration like as it orbits how do we not feel this acceleration okay um i mean now it's the same that it would be if it was circular right there is like uh so it's because it's um so we're moving say this way and then our orbit so the tug of the sun's gravity pulls us this way uh so it's directional acceleration right um even if we're moving at a constant relatively constant rate rate uh the the direction changes so you get acceleration because of that which is why he's bringing that up and that happens in an ellipse or a circle uh so why do we not feel that um honestly it's just because it's minuscule gotcha and thank you very much for your question this one coming from k-02 forces nathan how after all of these debates do you not know what the corealis force is i know exactly what it is neil tyson says it's earth rotating under a field goal but she just said earth doesn't rotate under things well it does but we just can't observe it it's too minuscule that's her answer for everything it was literally her answer 10 seconds ago like wow imagine like thinking all this stuff's happening but you can't see it can't feel it can't measure it don't notice it that's ridiculous i want to give maddie a chance to respond since you invoked her name you you summoned maddie go ahead maddie so we absolutely can observe and measure those things if we're being conscious and thinking about what we choose to measure um uh the northward extent of the hadley cell is a great great proof of corealis um and and the fact that we have evidence of that is deserts surrounding the earth at between 20 and 30 degrees north there's a constant desert band there that's the descending leg of the hadley cell the hadley cell only stretches that far north because of the corealis um also again hurricane uh direction of rotation those two things are great things we can point to that demonstrate corealis that even demonstrate the rotating earth you just have to know what to look for gotcha thank you very much for your question flat earth news says atmosphere let's see uh they said maddie with no experiment or demonstration question mark and uh so i think they're asking for like personal experiments that you personally have done um sure yeah so uh field weather field campaign um uh spent two weeks a couple summers ago chasing tornadoes launching weather balloons um radar all that fun stuff uh so when i was specifically talking about um density and of the atmosphere and winds i mentioned weather balloon so those are absolutely things i have launched myself um and and that's absolutely data that you that you get um so that's that's going to be my short answer to that thank you very much and um uh let's see f youtube says if heaven is going to be full of people like nathan let's see all right uh then i don't want to be there but majelin says maddie you are doing awesome have patience never has the difference between real and perceived intelligence been so massive in one human being next time you called maddie a bookworm nathan to be fair you can take a little poop being thrown at you question the answer says maddie why doesn't gps work in the southern hemisphere doesn't gps work in the southern hemisphere uh yeah yeah i'm confused by the question um gps works just fine in the southern hemisphere maddie why doesn't gps work in the southern hemisphere yeah so what it says i don't understand it myself but we'll go to the next one and kango two four okay go ahead i was just gonna say i can i can point to some great examples um i'm gonna i'm gonna keep pointing to weather stations but the you can go to the university of wyoming's website they've got rayowins on the the data that is free and available to the public anybody can look at it um and that should include ones from antarctic stations and those are tracked with gps um as they go up into the so you you track their lot long position with gps those are launched year-round and again that information is free and available to the public appreciate it and this one coming in from let's see dave dahlia fuhr says james we love you even on a flat earth thank you that's kind of you and kango i'm confused by but kango two four says nathan says moderator moderator please moderator okay next up nathan are you there yeah next thy messenger says maddie how can you believe nasa and there and their goofy astronauts caught on wire harnesses are you a nasa shill like fight the flat earth so i'm not a nasa shell um certainly not i i i mean full disclosure i did briefly work for nasa um when i was an undergrad my research i worked for them i got to uh i measured the moon it was very very fun i measured craters on the moon um i know a lot of people that work at nasa they're lovely folks gotcha and thank you very much for your question from tim priers says nathan complains when kind of interrupted then totally interrupts let's see uh next up michael dresden okay that is we're skipping that one kango two four says let's see james please ban me from your channel uh let's see okay gotcha skyler fiction is in the house he says maddie is amazing her patience is incredible raven zero says james i know you let's see brought nathan but come on okay and then midgellan looking for more serious questions appreciate it folks says uh say basically they had said but his behavior is unacceptable and uh let's see thanks for your modern date debate thank you for your kind words and midgellan says nathan you are shockingly unaware of how reality works philly ev says can we ask nathan why he consistently um let's see uh breaks the ninth commandment even though he follows let's see what was the uh ninth commandment i can't remember okay ah bearing false witness gotcha next up dick warlock says did you bring your dog to this fight nathan let's see um it's uh okay something about what's it midgellan we were looking for more serious questions jay says let's see uh can you shut down nathan um we did uh make sure that natty was able to talk and natty seated at the end so truth nerds by seated i mean like was ready to go into q and a we truth nerds said the saros is it saros or saros cycle is a rational approximation for lining synodic and draconic month the inax cycle e g is more accurate the heliocentric model explains these cycles precisely flat earth doesn't at all they developed those cycles before they even knew earth was a globe and you only knew a three-body equation for mass so you can't pretend that you're calculating for all these different bodies mass gravity bendy spacetime and then saying where everything's going to be in three months or three years that's a joke all you did was hijack the flat earth model all the researchers the kelts the phoenixians the parkus the mayans all of them knew how flat earth work in the sky was a clock in a map gotcha and thank you very much for your question this one coming in from midgellan says nathan in what ways are predicting eclipses and the weather similar you're so totally wrong yeah well she was saying that you can't make predictions all the time perfectly but we do predict eclipses perfectly so that's why i brought that up wolf van hinslick good to see you again says nathan your quote-unquote container you're asking for is the force of gravity please demonstrate a pressure gradient inside a container you mop it well one gravity hasn't been proven in two gravities not a physical container it's a force in three at earth surface gravity doesn't keep all the gas down gas moves in all directions and at the surface is where gravity is the strongest so i'm sorry saying gravity like mop it just makes you scientifically illiterate next up k-02 forces nathan do you think cold moon moonlight might violate the second law of thermodynamics no nothing violates the second left or wouldn't be a law okay next up timber timpire says fog nathan it's a form of gas it stays close to the ground no container fog is gas isn't that just acquies particles in the atmosphere what are you talking about bro what element is fog made up of next up this one coming in from angel gray says tyson also said that flat earth is wrong nathan wow cool story bro sigma any says nathan why is the oh we we read that and then out inside the open said japan and the pacific northwest have traded tsunami on several verifiable occasions in the recent past does the flat earth map not make this possible i don't have a map never claimed to i'm not a cartographer was that before what was it at uh what was it maddie i was asking who that question was for i was uh but it's i was i was gonna rant about extra tropical transition of hurricanes so nobody wants to hear von hanselich says nathan explained to me why being a veteran in the army being artillery one of the factors i had to calculate is earth's rotation to get accurate shots while shooting well he's just lying because daryl lee was uh speaker at take on the world and he did artillery for 20 years and he talked about how if they were one inch out of the the danger zone where they're like shooting bullets at they would all have to line up and they only aimed on an x and y axis never counted for coriolis once dude you're just making stuff up if that means if you accounted for coriolis every time you shot an artillery that means every time someone just takes a t-shot they'd have to account for coriolis every time someone shoots a free throw they would have to account for coriolis every time an airplane travels somewhere the earth would rotate under the airplane we would have drastically different journey times east to west and west to east but we don't so stop making stuff up like a cloud next up this one coming in from i have thoughts as nathan if there wasn't wind at all times you wouldn't suffocate from your own carbon dioxide in your sleep they forgive me they said nathan if there wasn't wind at all times you would suffocate from your own carbon dioxide in your sleep sorry about that i butchered that that's a cool story i think they're saying like there's always air movement because of the carbon dioxide just sat in front of your face you'd keep breathing in over and over and die nathan yeah that's a cool story it's not true they're just dumb uh tim priers says that's why she said in a fictional scenario nathan i can't remember there is no wind outside just so you guys know and actually you can go inside buildings and then there's no wind inside buildings for sure so like just to be sure that we're like on the same page in terms of like what wind means like air like is it fair to call like loosely speaking like is wind just like air moving yeah so do you get the significance of like if there's like just to be sure that because i know that there must have been there was like a miss point where if you're breathing out carbon dioxide if there were no air movement it would just sit in front of your face right to where you'd just breathe it back in a billion times or however many times until you like die it's not how gas works when you pop a balloon the balloon of gas doesn't just sit there in one spot waiting for you to inhale it okay so when you breathe out the gas goes in all directions then you breathe in new air it doesn't matter that when you're sitting in a car there's no wind around you so i'm not about to pass out from my own carbon dioxide that guy's just a dumb globe head next up nathan want to remind you to play nice with others tim priers says that's whoa oh he got that philly ev thanks for your question said hey nathan what's an electromagnetic wake since you wouldn't answer when she asked you to explain it sorry if someone else asked this first electromagnetic wake nathan is what they're asking for you to define yeah so you know i really don't care to like explain everything you guys go look it up bro go use google is your friend bro should be fair to the question ask her like uh you know it's like a it's a genuinely like it's a there's a sincere question yeah i know it's a sincere answer okay go do your own research bro let's see this one coming in from kango to forces uh nathan what is an electromagnetic wake and how does it pertain to hurricanes please give a detailed answer and how it predicts the direction of a hurricane the direction that a hurricane would move in no uh okay andrea the laws have says fight the flat earth is the vaccine uh let's see vando xd says the earth is spinning so when the drone is flown it is moving 1000 miles per hour along with the earth it needs a strong horizontal counter force to slow its speed what force would that be in a house i think that's a question for me and i think the question is if the drone is moving with the earth then if we're inside the house doesn't it why doesn't it just shoot in the opposite direction of a thousand miles an hour i think that might be it that's my best guess now that you've elucidated it okay um the the short answer there's just gonna be friction and it it's it's in a fluid that is moving with the earth even if you step into the house you're still in the air which is still a fluid that's still rotating um that's that's my short answer gotcha and thank you very much for this question coming in from majelin says nathan electromagnetic wakes are relevant to experiments involving plasma and quote relativistic electron beams nothing to do with the topic full story bro nathan mark reads says nathan what experiments have you performed to test the electromagnetic wake you proposed and how have they been falsifiable i never said i did next up top hot two says great job maddie stepping in on such short notice nathan could you please explain what an electromagnetic wake is and how it creates hurricanes it doesn't create the hurricane it just explains why they rotate in opposite directions majelin says as a certified celestial navigator i can tell you that the calculations involve spherical trigonometry the earth is a globe cool story bro nathan uh estaban iobaca good to see us as nathan do the drone experiment in a building just don't let it track the floor or use gps that's why we use pendulums nathan that wasn't a question james it's just globe zealots next up truth nerds well we can you can like attack it and try to dissect it nathan i'd rather not i'd rather you're going hey can you prove me to join the zoom on my phone so i can get going bro i'm done with this wi-fi spot these guys are boring bro um yes next up this one coming in from truth nerd says how many gps towers were in iraq during desert storm when it was first used in a military conflict if you understand gps you know flat earth is nonsense nathan that wasn't even a question bro so ask questions or let's just keep moving keep it pushing bro nathan they i think no they did it was they said how many gps towers were in iraq during desert storm when it was first used in military conflict i don't know google it bro google is your friend nathan you're being sassy let's see they had said if you so they're saying basically that gps does work as their point nathan i'm not sure what you're up to over there i can only see your uh sun guard thing but next up philly eve says maddie you did amazing you kept your cool cool when they were constantly talked when you were constantly talked down to and bullied and is in bullied is incredible it's sad that let's see um oh okay they say it's sad that talking down to a debater is okay honestly yeah i mean it's kind of like the wild west up here and then like speakers know that maddie knew that she's a big girl uh i think i mean let me give you your kudos from philly first but i uh long story short will store it t h fc rant says nathan if you want to know the truth why not just ask elon musk he is a non-government source nathan right elon gets four billion a year from nasa so what the hell you talk about next up truth nerds and let's see b-ball for life says nathan if the air pressure is supposed to expand to the available space why doesn't it expand to them nathan let me check if he's still here uh says let's see if the air pressure is supposed to expand to the available space why doesn't expand to the top of mount everest nathan may have left the building folks this is unexpected i did not think that was going to happen he may it may be an accident so it may not have been a rage quit he may be coming back let's just give him a moment and we'll see and in the meantime what we will do is want to remind you folks that our guests are linked in the description you can find their links down below we highly encourage you to check out their links we really appreciate both maddie and every guest that we have come on the show including flat earthers such as nathan if you're a flat earther want to welcome you to modern day debate if you're a globe earther we want to welcome you to modern day debate as we're a neutral platform welcoming everybody and so next question let me see if i can find more for you maddie while we wait for nathan to return and let's see otherwise um i hate to say it because nathan's not here to answer them but i would have to read the questions well he's back okay he has uh returned let's see had me go in there i thought i thought nathan might have uh might have left the building and so wait did he come back or nathan can you hear me i see you are in the zoom call nathan nathan we have many more questions nathan next up question for maddie thank you very much for this question coming in from brian cornell for maddie says maddie how does a rail gun take out another ship 100 miles away if it is a direct line of sight weapon in other words no curvature accounted for okay sorry my internet got a little unstable there for a second but um how does so a specific type of weapon that doesn't need to account for curvature correct the ray gun um i think that was the question yes um cool um i've shot weapons like twice in my life um so i don't have a strict answer for that um sorry james can you read that question again i didn't my internet i can stop right as you asked it and nathan has returned he is here thank you for coming back nathan and um that isn't i think are you is that your way of asking me to okay i'm letting you in via your phone and this question was from brian asking maddie how does a ray gun take out another ship 100 miles away if it is a direct line of sight weapon okay i think he's asking about rail guns that would be i think he's basically asking how does a rail array of a rail gun accurately fire at a ship 100 miles away without accounting for curvature my gut there says it doesn't um i would i'm not a not an artillery person i would need to uh look at like the specs of that weapon um so i'm gonna uh i i'm i'm gonna give the bad you know the the the my my best answer which is i i don't know right now gotcha lily arrow says thank you maddie for not being as uh interruptive as uh nathan thy messenger says maddie why are you okay with nasa faking space and wearing wire harnesses um i i'm not definitely been to the moon i've i've chatted with folks who have been there um and i got to work with a lot of people that worked on those missions got to hear stories about how we get moon rocks back i've looked at moon rocks they're fundamentally different than earth rocks um they're they're very cool gotcha and nathan can you hear me i have a question for you nathan i have a question okay oh yeah i can hear you tim prier says nathan fog is a form of gas please look it up nathan okay cool next up let's see this one coming in from anthony dickinson says nice victory nathan much love to you brother you got a fan out there as well nathan and then this one coming in from b-ball for life i think this is maybe when we lost nathan said nathan if the air pressure is supposed to expand to the available space why doesn't it expand to the top of mount everest does there is air at the top of mount everest what the hell are you talking about dude wow next up ben miller says nat please explain how light slash increase in energy produces coldness which is a decrease in energy yeah well that's the thing about the moon is the light from the moon is cold and you just assume all light is hot so no moonlight's cold gotcha and this one coming in from itchik hunt thanks for your super sticker says next up witsit gets its rv let's see okay oh please explain thermodynamics please no i i've got a short answer sure um that's a kind of a terrible joke no um so the basics of thermodynamics there's three laws um it's you can't win you can't break even you can't stop playing the game so energy cannot be created or destroyed um if you're building an engine um you cannot build a 100 efficient engine um and the third one's kind of more complicated but like you can't not play right you can't uh uh not in uh i don't have a short answer my analogy breaks down with that one but the first two are usually what's quoted gotcha and thank you very much for your question this one coming in from sigma any he has a follow-up to his original question his original question was why is the arctic chord correction required to yield an accurate closed planar traverse from precise spatial measurements nathan why do the basic computations otherwise fail without it and then their follow-up question was nathan you already know this but for the audience my previous question applies to optical measurement tools not gps simple mistake though thanks for that clarification clarification sigma any yep that was a big question policy i think he was actually he or she i think they were just trying to clarify their question next thank you very much for your let's see i think i may have missed one so forgive me one second while i make sure i um have not missed this this one coming in from ben miller says oh we got that and then thanks for your question isaia 4022 says maddie uh do you realize this is in doctor nation rather than scientific proof that you are speaking about what are your thoughts maddie in terms of whether or not this is indoctrination um i mean it's not indoctrination um just because there's a preponderance of evidence that supports a single claim and then that's claim is what is broadly taught great uh it doesn't make it indoctrination if it's if it's like true and verifiable and i can't stress how many things break if it's not right how many things that we rely on gosh and sigma any says nathan or i'm sorry tim prier says nathan not paying attention yes nathan nobody believed that the earth was flat that was regards to their earlier statement on nobody believing the earth was flat since 300 bc or so nathan believe believe believe believe you sound like a religious fundamentalist bro believe believe believe next up ben miller says nat i can make crepuscular rays with a laser in a lab over scaled distance a local sun is not required as close as close to parallel light rays as possible is cool story bro nathan are you paying attention did you hear that yes cool story bro it wasn't a question he's just saying he can duplicate crepuscular rays which is a laser which was my point exactly you need a small localized light source obstruction and particulates it's like these people don't have a brain and then they want to talk to me i don't i'm not interested in talking to you guys gotcha lily ro thanks for your kind where it says uh miss modern a debate miss james thank you for your kind uh that really does mean a lot lily and said nathan why is it harder to breathe at higher altitudes yeah because there's less air up there and then asked why is it hard to believe the atmosphere between the earth and space exists well space is fake that's why they're faking it with wires green screen harnesses hair spray augmented reality and parabolic planes gotcha let's see now opinion says so impressed by maddie in this debate and how she kept her cool i hope she's not discouraged to talk to flat earthers from this experience not discouraged had a good time next up night wolf seven night or 972 says nathan if the earth is flat why can't people in australia see the constellation the big dipper because it's on the other part of the flat earth the same reason we have night and day is because you can't see the entire sky at any given time from any given place gotcha and tapioca weasel says in my lab i trap so this is a long one i trap a dilute gas of ultra cold atoms at the focus of a laser beam within a vacuum chamber the atoms at the focus are way higher pressure than the background at less than 10 to the negative 11 tor there's no object made of atoms which stops the atoms in my gas from dispersing they're confined due to optical forces this is this is gas contained without a container analogous to how gravitational forces confine atmospheres cool story bro okay i know that was it for me but that's such a cool experiment that's not an experiment why not you still don't you still don't know what experiment is you need a naturally occurring observation and then you test the naturally occurring observation with your hypothesis which is an experiment okay that is the experiment so if you don't have a naturally occurring phenomenon that you formulate a hypothesis about i wonder what the cause of this effect is you don't have an experiment i'm sorry you spent so much money on school and you still don't know what experiment that's sad give you a chance to respond if you'd like maddie yeah um i just came up with like okay so before we first built a car engine we would have experimented with like the concept of an internal combustion reaction right and how those are how can we do that safely right so there's lots of experimentation there um and there's no that's called anything we've got a letter we've got a letter finished nathan it's called engineering nathan we got a letter finish yeah sure but she's wrong there's no naturally occurring internal combustion engines and yet we can build and design them so this idea that a phenomena has to be naturally occurring or we have to be able to like observe it now in nature is just that that's just it's just it's flawed it's a it's a flawed premise next up you think building an engine wait james she thinks building an engine is science hello maddie you think building an engine i'm not gonna engage her next up building an engine is science i understand truth nerds okay cool truth nerd says we don't have a closed formula for the three body problem neither do we have for the circumference of any lips does this mean ellipses are fake no it just means that you don't have a three body equation for mass and that you can't predict anything on the heliocentric model congratulations what a dumb question wow next up two seconds just boomer tech over here but do want to remind you folks our guests are linked in the description and that includes if you were listening to us via podcast we're on all major podcasts and so hopefully that's useful to you folks if you have long drives or like listening to it on the commute or while cleaning whatever it is if you are listening via podcast you can find our guest links there too and thanks so much this one coming in from brian let's see cider and port says how does nathan account for the time zones on a flat earth it's currently 135 in the morning as i type this which isn't the same in the us right now please don't dodge this now that's very simple the sun circles around polar center so when it's high noon over a certain area it's not high noon over other areas they have different times super simple yeah gotcha ben miller says nate the seros cycle is only accurate to plus or minus 36 hours and that an eclipse will happen heliocentric globe model is why we can predict within the hour and where the shadows path will cross the earth maybe like i wasn't listening but they don't have a three-body equation for mass they don't predict anything they just hijack flatter researchers so you gotta go rewind like 10 minutes and then go back to the beginning of the debate we talked about it then we're like catch up bro come on tim prier says ha ha says google is your friend continues to get information off youtube explains why he still doesn't understand the coriolis nathan do you understand the coriolis nathan nathan i do all my own tests very simply guys coriolis as stated by neil tyson is the earth rotating under object yeah i'm here what are you doing something hello here we can hear games can hear we can hear you today at a dead zone we can hear you right now we can't hear you it's now it's not it doesn't move under objects as i'm in my time to go kanal x silver fir says what is an electromagnetic wake nathan google's your friend bro long nights youtube and says what's up james how's it going man thank you for being with us my friend uh it's conwell says rough debate nate if the earth is flat how come the other planets the sun moon and stars are not or are they nathan well there's no planets are wandering stars first because earth nathan bro we can't hear you man nathan i don't know if you can hear me i'm sorry can you okay can you say that again we lost you yeah can you hear me yes yeah earth's not a planet so that's why planets are round gotcha majelin says rest in peace nathan okay uh let's see um the logical hillbilly says just say you made up electron electromagnetic wake it's not like we can think okay gotcha nathan did you make this up nathan i gotta go james nathan are there any more serious questions because i gotta go yeah we do this one comes in from sigma n he says this one well we've got one he's got one for matty but i've got another one for you nathan which is endo xd says my question was for nathan he says the drone should move as the earth moves under it but it needs a force can you please re ask it and that question for you nathan is this they said the earth is spinning so when the drone is flown it is moving at 1000 miles an hour along with the earth it needs a strong horizontal counter force to slow its speed what force would that be in a house you're just begging the question assuming that it's going a thousand miles an hour it's not the earth's not rotating next up antonio and let's see uh looking for serious questions thanks for your super sticker linden and this one coming in for matty sorry my dog is lying on an iron and he just managed to turn it on okay it's fine and uh sigma says his original super chat was for matty and let me read that again so that was matty they said why is the arctic chord correction required to yield an accurate closed planar traverse from precise spatial measurements why do the basic computations otherwise fail without it okay so i'm not uh there's some technical language in there that i'm not 100 familiar with precisely what they're asking i think we're asking about curvature of the earth stuff um and so the the number that was thrown out a lot tonight is it's an approximation it's not exactly right you have to take into account like the angular distance um and and so my short answer to his question there is angles um yeah you have to you have to account for the angular distance because the distance of the the arc length isn't exactly the same as the the chord distance so you need the you need the arc length gotcha and anthony dickinson says matty how do you explain that the earth was revolving around was revolving around for the first three days of creation how do i so how do i explain okay hi so um i i don't think that the the bible is literally true um so if we're talking about i think that's that's my answer that's my answer for that gotcha and it literally is gotcha next up we are going to go to the next one this one coming in from brian witt says nathan if you drive a convertible at 60 miles an hour with a 60 mile per hour tailwind and throw a ball up in the air which direction will it go yeah if you don't drive a car and you don't have a tailwind you throw a ball up in the air what direction does the ball go dude you guys are so goofy that argument works on both models you haven't figured that out yet guys we've been doing this five years it's pathetic dude logical hillbilly said just so everyone knows cool story bro means wow that completely went over my head nathan is that true cool story bro next up gabriel case is good job moderating james thank you i will take that for all you haters out there just keep on hating keep drinking your hater aid migelon says nathan how does the direction of the moon change as you drive from one parking lot to the next parking lot for sleeping what okay they said how does the direction of the moon change it's not a real question bro next question and if you read another one like that bro i'll just leave i got better things to do i've been here for two hours bro calm down i've been here for two hours nathan come on work with me i already asked you you called maddie a book order i already asked you at the beginning of it james i don't give a shit she's a bookworm she doesn't just a name she doesn't know it's not what we say all right next question truth nerd says nathan they said we can predict the three body wow why are you okay nevermind they say we can predict the three body systems behavior using numerical integration just fine i studied numerics and higher math at university what's your qualification i tested earth for five years myself and it's flat so that's cool story went to school bro next up tim prier says nathan talking about catching up flat earthers claim ships disappear bottom first because of perspective now because we prove them wrong about zooming in keep up with your buddies they do disappear by first because of perspective but the thing is if you get a different aperture like a telescope or a high power zoom camera voila you can see it again do these people like pay attention to anything bro do they like even listen to anything i don't get it i don't get it juicy to say the least and we want to say thank you everybody it is true the speakers i've been here for a while and yeah will wait will stewart thfc rance this is one that came up before and i missed the question i i think i missed who it was from so i'll on behalf of them and will will says nathan we're in the bible does it literally say it is flat and i think will wants a piece of you nathan yeah a lot of glovers are obsessed with me want to take me on dates i don't really care about all that i don't date globeheads but uh in the bible you know it's pretty hard to find just go to the first chapter in the first book and go to the first verse in the beginning the creator created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form and void and darkness moved over the waters and are darkly through the deep in the spirit of yaw moved over the face of the waters so large bodies of waters have a face a surface and the surface is flat measurably flat i've tested it for five years sorry you want a piece of me keep dreaming gotcha and want to say thank you everybody for being with us also want to let you know our guests are linked in the description folks we want to let you know we hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you come from folks we are a non-partisan platform and we do appreciate you hanging out with us it's always fun i'll be back with a post credit scene in just a moment if you enjoyed this debate hit that like or if you were triggered and angry by this debate hit that dislike button have at it and tim prier has one last question he said no you can't zoom in nathan tried it that's a lie once the bottom's gone there's no zooming in it back in namely there's no zooming in to see the bottom again okay all right cool story bro yeah you're right my bad i thought it did gotcha and juicy well thank you very much folks as mentioned our guests are linked in the description we do appreciate you all being here and yes as i had mentioned folks at that like or dislike on the way out depending on how pleased or displeased you were and also want to let you know thanks everybody we want to let you know let's see want to let you know folks we appreciate all of your huge support we'll be back with a post credit scene in just a moment and so stick around for some upcoming debates that i will share with you keep sitting out the reasonable from the unreasonable and be right back thanks again maddie i think nathan is left thanks james be right back folks well that was juicy folks very exciting and so thank you guys that was a wild one no doubt about it but do want to get to say hi to you guys i do appreciate you hanging out here thanks ben miller for your last minute super chat said mdd making bank office aneurysm well done james um how could you say that about maddie i'm just teasing uh so it is uh let's see we love maddie and i want to let you know folks despite my teasing want to let you know maddie was super kind as i had a feeling reckless ben was going to pull one on us uh so i actually asked maddie if she'd be willing to be on deck in case reckless ben didn't show up and so honestly you guys i highly encourage you to check out the links of our guests in the description and i highly encourage you to give maddie a thank you for being on call for this debate she basically waited to see if ben was going to show up and then she was and basically i let her know i was like hey he's not here and she's like okay i'll jump in so i totally appreciate maddie and just want to give her huge credit for that and huge thank you for that jungle jargon good to see a stripper liquor good to see you connell x silver for glad you're here and ask and reeve thanks for being with us and erin yandell thanks for being with us no name glad you're here fox sushi good to see you again brian stevens glad to see you as always grillers paradise thanks for being with us travis pratt says i agree james is thanks for your kind words travis that means a lot thanks for your super chat farron salas says thanks again for another juicy debate modern day debate got to this debate at the end but always good fun thanks farron i appreciate that and i want to show you something buddy because you're right it was juicy and my dear friend mr nelson sent me this this uh favorite shirt that i have now uh nothing better than this and even on the back you guys oh i love it isn't that awesome and so mdd i really appreciate that gift so but yes it was juicy and so we do appreciate you guys thank you for all of your support for real this channel has been we've been going through all these changes in terms of like trying to figure out like what's the best rule set for our channel in terms of we don't want to we want to encourage people to attack the arguments rather than the guests because we appreciate the guests and we want to look out for the guests and so that's the trick is that it's like well guests uh so long story short that's why we are kind of taking a more active role in terms of deleting stuff when people are trashing the guests and so we can take a little teasing like a little teasing is okay if it's like ha ha you know nathan um wears uh you know he wears like i'm trying to think of i can't i'm i'm dead you guys it's the end of the week i can't think anything but you know we can take a little teasing it's okay but we do ask you to uh hold back on the series attacks now let's see handsome rick says we need to talk about uh not talk to james about this nathan and platforming people like this listen i've got to tell you some of you guys you're just gonna have to deal with it you're gonna i mean believe it or not you're gonna deal with a lot harder of things in life than nathan uh thompson being platformed to make his case for flat earth for real that life will get harder believe me trust me and so you're gonna have to just learn to live with it and stop trying to pressure me and stop trying to do this even worse sometimes i see people are like james having nathan on i'm gonna unsub i'm gonna boycott and it's like okay have fun like i don't care so the idea here is like that kind of manipulative stuff of like instead of trying to have a civil conversation where i try to dialogue with james about this i'm gonna i'm gonna threaten to unsubscribe or i'm gonna threaten to it's like okay i mean if you're that type of person this channel is gonna be better without you anyway and so all the losers and haters out there it's like i'm sorry like go ahead unsubscribe i don't care i it's just that we get so many people that try to manipulate and it's so cringy it's like wow you look like this nasty little creepy little snake in the grass but that's one percent of the people want to be fair dr mantis toboggan thanks for your kind words your kind super chat says nathan why can't you keep your cool and answer the questions and uh yeah basically they're not pleased with nathan and so we yeah do want to say we do appreciate you guys hanging out here and so let's see but yeah thanks so much we do appreciate all of your support and i'm just catching up on chat jason noble says thank you maddie all over cat well good to see you says maddie seems really cool and that's for sure uh like i said i really do appreciate let's see mr p says james there was a rumor circulating in the chat earlier that you were studying your phd at dinosaur adventure land that's right that is where it's at uh you guys i've been trying to keep it under wraps i didn't know what you guys would think spart 344 says already did glad to see a spart alex Shaw thanks for being with us and gcash good to have you here says love maddie agreed youtube surgeon general says maddie was great i appreciate it so much like i said maddie was just kind of like sure like i'll i'll be on call and that's a hard thing and i told maddie like i anyway i just i appreciate maddie so much for that um brook chavis good to see you and let's see um spart 344 says maddie is a new version like a new type of erica type it's true i think that is true and we appreciate maddie and human girl thanks for your kind words your hearts and then let's see super nintendo thanks for hanging out with us i love the name forest floor good to see you and anthony dickinson let's see have an idea says have you heard of the serpent seed i have not i don't know what it is thanks for your kind words web bar it said you did great we don't hate you for your way of moderation we know and accept it yeah i mean that's the trick there is a rhyme there's like actual reason behind why moderate the way i do i'm not gonna i've explained it to some people before i'm not gonna explain it every night because i honestly think that that's part of the recipe for why like people have enjoyed modern day debate like you guys uh i'll tell you a lot of channels out there they're like really big on control and just oh we're gonna moderate it's gotta be so professional and it's boring i hear from their subscribers they're sleeping they're like oh it's so tiring it's so boring i fall asleep because it's so controlled over here and we have control debates too we have peaceful professional debates we do for real you've seen them but yeah sometimes they're more lively and it's like what are you gonna cry like i've got listen if you're really that upset by it i gotta let you know it's good training for the rest of your life you're gonna run into things that are hard so hey and it's good for you to get some practice at it don't ask for a light load friends ask for a strong back that's my philosophy and so yes let's see shan thomas glad you're here shuler good to see you hannah anderson glad you're here no name happy to have you thom wall brand thank you for being with us and let's see here here mr p says james is the love child of a large shin rock and kent hovind thanks for your kind words and boy thanks for being with us jorgan thanks for being here i think are you talking to me i said what software do you use for this we use obs and we're pretty big on telling we don't keep secrets folks when i started modern day debate i um remember there were some channels that like seem to like try to keep it a secret like how they did the stuff and i was like uh i'm you know i didn't feel entitled but i also kind of thought like if i ever get the opportunity to share our secrets and if people ever want to know how modern day debate does what we do i'm happy to share so for real like yeah we use obs and we use zoom we do a window capture of zoom bada bing bada boom as long as you're not on a mac it'll pick up your your audio from zoom through the desktop audio um it's a piece of cake if it's a mac it's a little bit more complicated and i haven't figured it out yet but just want to let you know and then uh but yeah anyway happy to help and share those secrets so you guys it's it's not really a secret guys are the master viewer thanks for being with us brian steven says it is typing things the guest says like bro in the chat okay like if the guest has a mocking tone is it okay to use their own mocking tone back at them i think that's fine like i i think that that's the trick is like you know we were pretty heavy handed since last what was it friday um let me have the nuclear meltdown but m stone glad to see you by the way um yeah but basically it's the really harsh stuff that i kind of want to be like you know for example like i don't blame mat for being upset that somebody called him in n a z i because it's like that's slander it is that's real slander it's like don't like don't call people that in the chat i mean if they are that like fine but i mean like it's just kind of but yeah anyway fred thanks for being with us and michael mcgillicuddy good to see you my dear friend and brian steven says um but yeah so yeah i think that's fine um brian i am a little bit like when people call people dishonest all the time i'm a little bit like geez um but i honestly i don't know um stripper liquor says d platforming is of no benefit ever um yeah so you know so here's the thing um handsome rick says it's a bullying abuse matty's tough like matty's not a pushover she's not a wimp i actually thought matty did well in this debate and i also thought matty was also like tough in this debate in the sense that now you might think you might be like well but matty wasn't assertive as nathan it's like well yeah because nathan is like off the charts assertive and that's putting it nicely um but i think that you guys like matty is like i was like believe me the things that i think matty will be okay i know he called her a bookworm but i think she'll be okay she's a little tougher than that come on guys give her a little more credit please don't tell me you're doing the whole white knight thing you should punch yourself in the face if you're doing that no offense but doubting toz i don't know if you do if you i'm sorry i'm a little bit you guys gonna tell them a little on edge tonight um i knew i you know i was gonna have to give you some pushback all day i knew that i was thinking about it but thanks uh test beatbox thanks for your kind words um gues of the master viewer thanks for your super sticker appreciate that my friend and let me just catch up i just love reading the chat and i appreciate you guys just hanging out here deity defeaters it's just want to say you're a very good moderator thanks for your kind words that seriously means a lot handsome rick says okay unsubscribe and i'm like that is great this channel you guys seriously like you can tell i have a duchenne smile i have a real smile right now and the reason it's like this is good where like it's the purge of all these like cry babies and all these people that try to manipulate with their i'm gonna unsubscribe it's like is here you 13 you're like please tell me you're not a grown adult doing that kind of stuff that's like just looks like manipulative and like this kind of like unsubscribe rather than try to have a normal conversation uh but chrisper i know it's like here's for ca as dine says the issue is into the subject matter it's his behavior he was insulting to maddie and refused to answer audience questions i don't think that's what you want for this channel so i would agree in terms of we covered insulting to maddie i think she'll be okay chrisper doing the whole white knight thing doesn't look good on you um he called her a bookworm i think she'll be okay she's tough you guys you really it's insulting to maddie you think that she can't handle that um but yeah the other thing is i would agree like you know it is cringe i do not like it when people won't answer audience questions um so that i would actually agree and that's something that i did ask nathan nathan are you paying attention nathan what do you have to say but uh yeah so let's see out inside the open thanks for being with us super straight earther thanks for being with us and uh we are so glad that you're here by the way you guys i mentioned we'll have some upcoming juicy debates thanks for your super your super chat tim prior said i got nathan to admit that he was wrong do i win anything i got to be honest it is kind of crazy um nephilim free thanks for your super chat that's really nice of you like well well that's nice of you he said thanks for being you thanks nephilim free for your kind words seriously that means a lot and so um uh let's see i'm a little bit behind i'm trying to catch up with the chat thanks to your patience guys um i'm i'm scrolling trying to catch up tuss beatbox says can we have an erica maddie tag team oh that's a great idea i honestly would love that and so um jane caster says he didn't even pay attention half the time is during the debate um if a debater doesn't pay attention it's it's to their own like you could say it contributes to their own loss right and so um i don't it's like you're kind of like well he didn't pay attention and it's like well do you think that that helped him in some way like it's like it comes back on him anyway in terms of if a debater doesn't pay attention like it's to their own you could say it contributes to their own loss and so uh but yeah thank you let's see uh henry had a question i saw something about how many subs do you need and um so here's the um oh we got i got some questions for you guys um because i want your feedback on a couple things but henry kyle um you don't need subscribers to be on the channel uh if you're a good debater like we'll have you even if you have zero subs i mean or like so there are a couple other things like if you're able to because it's true i gotta let you know folks some of you don't know um even though daily we grow in subs and i'm really thankful for that like we haven't had a negative day in subs for a long time and i'm thankful for your guys's support as you guys have helped some like you guys i i can't tell you how much i appreciate you and just like i love hanging out here in the more than my area um but it's true that individual debates i can see in the stats if certain debates have a net loss of subscribers so if you're new we usually are like super appreciative if you're able to find somebody like an opponent who has subscribers that's kind of like almost like insurance where it's like if we have a really bad new person which like it happens like and we have sometimes people who are experienced have bad days too like i'm not trying to pick on anybody but the point is that like if you can find us a person who has like a a larger like youtube following that helps such that if you're a new person and you crash and burn having that new person with like a larger following can kind of like help bring new people to the platform it's true and so because that's true it's like you guys like if if we have a debate so sometimes we'll have a debate and it's like it's a net loss of subscribers it's like a bummer for me and so it's so i would just say that it's like if you're able to go out so for example we recently had a what's i'm sorry i'm so bad with names oh man because i made an apology video for him even um donald chronos hope you're doing well if you're listening donald um thank you for your kindness and forgiveness of me as i i did make a mistake but um fractal insight bearer says i used to think james held a bias during the debates against the flat earthers speakers but after that explanation i respect you more for your role james thanks fractal insight bearer for your kind words seriously that means a lot really do appreciate your kind words and your support and um long story short donald chronos henry kyle if you're still there donald chronos went and he got kenthoven to come back on even though kent kept saying no to me um donald chronos convinced him and that got kenthoven back on and you guys might say like no no don't have kenthoven it's like well you guys if we're a neutral platform claiming to give everybody a shot like then we have to give everybody a shot we have to be consistent with that and so long story short um i would say like that helps a lot as if you're able to find like a guess that may be whether they be a tag team partner or an opponent that helps us in case like the first youtuber or i should say the first time debater crashes and burns or something gabriel k says james you're awesome still waiting on the alien show i would die to see bob lasar on mondern day debate thanks for your kind words my friend and i want to get him on no joke i know who you're talking about site show nav good to see you thanks for your kind email today man said most definitely not boring thanks for your kind words and then anthony dickinson said serpent seed is the fact that kane is the son of the serpent and not adam but whoever said that adam was the son of the serpent i mean like any literal way um kane is the son of the serpent chocked his then garcia he will debate it should be awesome i'm open to it i guess but stripper looker is right we're not a safe space we're not your grandma's debate channel like i'm gonna be real like it is a kind of an adult debate channel in a lot of ways and um and osd says it's more about being rude being able to have a productive conversation you can't do that when someone is rude and uncooperative there are points when nathan was uh rude and uncooperative i would concede that uh i wouldn't say it was the whole time i but i do think that he kind of got worn down and started becoming more uh less cooperative as the time went on i would concede that ben miller says modern day debate to be fair you could change the channel name miraculously to more modern day discussion that's true i mean we are not uh we don't really do a lot of formal debates anymore um thanks so much again neflam free for your super chat and thanks gezza the master reviewer for your super sticker dav langer says chat always moves way faster faster for your jerry springer type debates so you're doing something right don't listen to the vocal minority thanks dav langer for your kind words platium says stay awesome and uh join the modern day to be discord all thanks platium for your kind words um i have to let you know you were like so kind and so helpful with the discord and i seriously appreciate your help with that and um i seriously appreciate it and so um you have no idea thank you for doing that platium and larry let's are leaders of the discord because i don't know how to do discord but i appreciate them doing it and they do an awesome job cliff matthews thanks for being with us thanks for being with us handsome rick still complaining but that's okay we love you anyway devil's that advocate thanks for being with us and gezza let's see just saw where was it silver harlow says don't know if you saw it before because of the other questions but i asked if you james are a moral human because your patience with um dumpster debaters is too much thanks for your kind words um i think i'm i guess statistically i should probably um guess that i'm like average um but i um i don't know there's like i let me take a sip i'm tired i gotta be honest but yeah thank you guys for being here thanks for your kind words um and and yeah like we want to let's see mr p says we need an erica 2.0 with hoven that would be interesting k kaleb says my grandma loves this debate channel are you serious really i'm like so flattered if that's the case um um i appreciate that um thanks for your kind words perfect one said seriously when you you were saying that there would be tougher challenges in this life in someone you don't like getting a platform i thought james is going to be a good patent i don't oh parent i see what you're saying thanks for your kind words um i hope so i want to be a parent someday and who knows if it'll happen but web bars is it's so interesting that nathan just collapses if there's no pressure exerted on um uh let's see michelle louise davis good to see you again and thanks again um platinum says we'll make modern-day debate discord even greater over time thanks for doing that platinum seriously i honestly if you ever like i just appreciate you so much we should talk more platinum i know that you emailed me and i know that so yeah um oh dave langer says from twitch lily bug says document night on twitch would probably debate on covid matters if james is looking for new meat and probably pulling some twitch viewers i don't know who those are but i am open to them dave langer um so let's talk more because i'm going to save their names and then like i'd honestly be pumped to host them and i'm open to it and that can be fun and so yeah i know it's been a little sassy tonight so thanks for your patience with me folks i uh appreciate it thanks for your super chat linden says hi love the channel i'm a graphic designer and i have some ideas on how to make the stream look even better can i email you some images to explain yeah seriously that's like the kindest thing in the world i i totally appreciate that um thank you so much linden seriously that means a lot because it's true i will admit you guys there are things yeah i just appreciate your support you guys so thank you guys for helping make this better and let's see um dave langer i'm going to save those names of those twitch uh debaters and then we'll try to like make it work um that sounds fun and so i've got their names in here and let's go for it and uh oh mortal i am immortal thank you silver you're funny anthony dickinson says i misspoke kane was the son of the serpent serpent abel was the son of adam let me think about this it's a long week oh i see what you're saying because your brothers you're saying that they're not brothers though because you're saying that well unless they're could they be half brothers such that eve had intercourse or she didn't have intercourse with adam according so she did she have intercourse with the snake um but anyway i've never heard of this idea i'm trying to figure out what it is and so i but thanks for letting me know about it it's interesting and uh meg and satan it's good to see you flat earth guy good to see you human girl glad you're here jane casper i appreciate you even though you give constructive criticism and i would say as a result of the fact that you give constructive criticism i hope you know guys i don't want you to feel like you can't give um i don't want you to feel like you can't give constructive criticism um it's easier for me to like accept your constructive criticism and embrace it if it's friendly but um at the same time even if it's like not particularly friendly i want to be open to it and the reason is um it's more that the things that i find to be cringe are more when people are like james i'm unsubscribing i just unsubscribed so there and i well i'm like well first of all like if you've already left like why do i have a reason to like change for you and i guess it's like oh i'm gonna like okay i'll change my way to get this one person to come back because they don't want me to platform you know nathan or whoever um and it's like no like it doesn't even make sense it's just not a good like how could you think it's a good strategy so that makes me think like you can't be that like dense to think it's a good strategy it makes me think like you're just trying to be manipulative you're just trying to like i'm gonna try to discourage james by saying this hold on i'm taking this laser off it's hot it just comes off as like manipulative you know and that for for me that's the kind of stuff that i'm like okay yep and like oh the boycotts and stuff too i'm like you look like you're just attention seeking um guys are the master reviewer says we don't need we don't see enough debates in the mainstream media they should take notes thanks for saying that i agree and i'm not joking when i say that we want to grow modern day debate to be gigantic like no joke my goal is like someday lord willing i want to have this podcast be as big as like the joe rogan experience in 10 years like i'm very serious about that like i i love doing this i'm committed to doing it um it's enjoyable and so michelle says is that a huge mic or you just was it is it really huge or you really tiny it's a pretty good size mic my hand is like pretty big i've got big hands and and so i can tell you that like where is it like yeah yeah that's a that's a big mic because my hands are like um trying to think of like how i can like show a comparison but it's a big mic but thanks doubting thomas who says host who you want james and let's see will stewart good to see you buddy so scripture says adam is kane's son um um adam is kane's son now adam knew eve his wife and she conceived and bore kane saying i've gotten a man with the help of lord yeah i know that like i know that jenesis would say that um scripture says that um that kane is adam's son i know that um james and said how do you go tonight do you feel any better this week i do feel better this week and that means a lot because honestly last week was like no joke hellish like it was just terrible um so thank you guys for being super supportive seriously you have no idea how much it means i do really appreciate that you guys are like the most loyal people i appreciate that and uh i honestly appreciate you guys being so kind and so helpful and so um um but yeah well let's see jane kasper says you should grow out your beard this year intimidation will make the rudeness go away love you forever you have improved so much love you thanks jane love you too thanks for your kind words i seriously appreciate the encouragement and uh brook chavis says i hope you get some much needed rest this weekend thanks thanks brook i definitely plan on it and i think it will be helpful um let's see i know estes how's that phd coming you're on here every night don't overwork yourself thanks my friend um the phd is going well about two more years left uh that's the plan uh i just i was excited today i got um yeah i mean it's like unofficial but it's still i got invited to teach again next year which is really cool because i like teaching my own classes it's enjoyable i love getting to interact with the students um it's an awesome time and so i actually kind of tempted to do it again even though it's really time consuming so thank you for asking and research is okay r