Okay, guys. Good morning, everyone. Okay, thanks. Thank you. So, I just wanted to remind you guys that we have Quiz 4 on Friday. The online people who are here, we have Quiz 4. I'm going to be posting it tomorrow, okay, for you guys. So, you'll have Thursday and Friday to take it. The Practice Quiz 4 solutions are posted. And, of course, the Practice Exam 3 has been posted for about a week and a half now. I'll be posting the solutions for that maybe sometime next week or something. Are there any other questions before we get started?  Okay, so I think last time we essentially ended our discussion talking about these reaction diagrams. And, if you recall, is this an exothermic or endothermic reaction? Do you guys can tell? Yeah, exothermic. How can you tell? Because, what, the reactants are at a higher energy than the products, right? Okay, so let's draw, let's draw this up on the board. Okay, so if we look on the y-axis, remember that's talking about energy increasing, right? And the x-axis, I always call it time. And these reaction diagrams, a lot of times they'll call it reaction progress. Okay, that is essentially saying, okay, we started with our reactants, and then when we mix them up, the reaction is going. Okay? So, recall that if we've got an exothermic reaction, our reactants are at a higher overall energy level or average energy level than our products are. Recall also that just because this reaction is spontaneous, doesn't mean that it's going to happen on its own. Okay, you gotta kind of push it a little bit, right? And that little push is an increase in energy, and we call it what? So that's our increase in energy, right? So this is going to be called from, here, let's mark it with a different color chalk. This point here, the highest energy point to where the reactants started, that's called the EA or the activation energy, right? Okay, and then as the reaction progresses, of course, it quickly goes down in energy because, of course, most spontaneous, all spontaneous processes want to go down in energy. So it goes down relatively quickly after the initial activation of the process. Remember, we said this is an exothermic reaction. Okay, so, do you guys recall? What do we call the kind of complex that's found at the top of the energy diagram? The transition state, right? You guys are awesome this morning, good job. So the transition state? Remember, the transition state, the transition state isn't an actual molecule, okay? It's like two molecules with partial bonds to each other, okay? So, if we think about it, right? If we've got, say, AC, BD, like this, right? And we want to react those to form AB and CD, like this, okay? What we'll find is that, of course, this doesn't instantly happen, right? We've got to go through this transition state. So what we'll find is that the transition state for this complex, remember, these things have to hit each other in this orientation or they won't form this AB bond, CD bond, okay? So, if we looked at what the transition state may look like, oops, here, let's draw it, it's still in blue, okay? So we've got this AB and CD, right? But in the transition state, the AC bond is partially broken now, right? Because we want to be going from AC to AB, so we've got to break that covalent bond. So we could represent that like a dashed bond like that, okay? Also, the AB bond is partially being formed right now, okay? So we could represent that as another dashed bond like that, okay? So you could imagine this would be one portion of what the transition state would look like. Overall, the whole transition state would actually look like this, right? With partial bonds between all of those, the forming bonds being, which one are we, this one here, those ones are going to be forming those partial bonds. And then these partial bonds here are the breaking bonds, okay? And even though I marked them as solid lines, remember, they're partial bonds, okay? Covalently linked, okay? So this thing doesn't actually exist ever, okay? It's just kind of a theoretical two molecules sitting together forming two other molecules, okay? So there's some more portions to this reaction diagram that we can talk about. Recall, if we talked about the difference in energy from the reactants to the product, so just from here to here, does anybody know what value that would be called? Yeah, the delta H, delta H, right? Or does anybody remember enthalpy, right? The enthalpy. Yeah. So we call that delta H or enthalpy, okay? So for this reaction, is delta H going to be negative or positive? So I heard both, negative or positive? Negative. Why is it going to be negative? Because the energy is coming off of the reaction, right? Energy is coming off of the reaction. We can say that. So the vessel will, what, heat up or cool down if we're holding it. It'll heat up, okay? It'll heat up. So yeah, I guess you can think of it that way, yeah. But since you can also think of it the opposite way since this is an exothermic reaction, you know it's going to have a negative delta H, okay? And this is shown by this graph, okay? So let's just really quickly draw the, I think, let's see what we've got here. Activation energy, let's see if we've got some more things. Okay, yeah. So let's just look at these pictures representatively. So you can see here we've got a relatively high activation energy relative to the enthalpy here. So this reaction is actually going to go very slow, okay? So reactions that have high activation energies, it takes a lot of external energy stores to get those reactions started, okay? So in other words, they're going to go slow. Of course, once you get to this point, it's just like any other time you get to that point. It goes really fast. It's like going down the roller coaster or whatever, okay? Notice here the relation between the activation energy, EA and delta H. EA is very small relative to delta H. So this reaction will progress quite quickly, okay? So the lower the activation energy, the faster the reaction, okay? There's the activated complex or transition state, okay? Those are equivalent terms. So if one is used instead of the other, don't make sure you guys don't get confused. Remember, it's an extremely unstable, short-lived, intermediate complex. Reaction proceeds from reactants to products via the activated complex. So in order to get from NO plus O3 here to NO2 plus O2, you've got to go through this kind of partially bonded activated complex or transition state. So remember, because it doesn't actually exist, it can't be isolated from the reaction mixture. And this formation of this activated complex or transition state is what the energy in the activation energy, this little push of energy is actually forming. Remember, these molecules don't necessarily like to be in contact with each other. They'd rather be kind of far away from each other. So getting them in close proximity and the right orientation, which we're going to talk about a little bit more extensively today, does take some energy. And that's energy is found in this activated energy from the reactants to the transition state or the activation energy, okay? Again, here's an exothermic reaction. We can tell because the reactants are higher than the products. Slow, because the activation energy is high. Notice this. We can look at a reaction from the forward or the reverse from the left or from the right, I guess I should say. So here you see we've got the forward activation energy saying that this is the reactants and this is the products. But we could push the reaction in an opposite direction, okay? In that case, this would be the reactants and this would be the products, right? And now our activation energy would be from the average energy of the reactants down here all the way up to the average energy of the transition complex, okay? So you can see that activation energy for the reverse reaction is very high relative to the activation energy for the forward reaction, okay? Notice also the enthalpy of the reaction, the magnitude of this number stays the same but the sign switches, okay? So going from an endothermic to an exothermic reaction. In this case, the delta H for the exothermic reaction is negative 392 kilojoules, okay? So the delta H for the endothermic reaction would be positive 392 kilojoules because you need to gain that much energy to go back to your reactants, okay? So go over this slide a little bit because it really does kind of take everything and put it into one little picture. There's your endothermic reaction. Again, your activated complex, endothermic reactions almost always take place very slow because of course the reactants are always at a lower energy state than the products and you've got to get up to this very high activation transition state so that much energy takes a long time to get, okay? So unless you're heating these things up to a very high temperature, you're going to have very slow endothermic reactions. Okay, so we've been talking about reactions, the rates of reactions for the last couple of days so we know that at a certain temperature, in this case, at STP, standard temperature pressure, reactions will proceed at what is known as their characteristic rate, okay? So for example, this reaction here is a very fast reaction. If you're looking for some of these slides, I did put a couple more in this morning. So this reaction is very, very fast and this reaction at standard temperature pressure is very slow. So you can imagine at the same temperatures and pressures you'll find different reactions having different speeds, okay? So let's look at the five factors that affect the rate of the reaction. Okay, I essentially just expanded this portion in your notes. So if you look, the first of those factors is the concentration of these reactants. Of course, these molecules must collide to react. We've talked about that extensively over the past couple of days. They can't just shout to each other and say, okay, we want to react. They have to actually come into contact with each other, make and break bonds. So if they're not doing that, then you can't have a reaction, right? That's why I can have two things that if I mix them together, they can explode or whatever, but if I have them in two separate containers, they'll be perfectly safe, right? Okay, so let's talk about the concentration reaction, reactants. So the reaction rate is proportional to the concentration of the reactants. That should make sense to you. And you can see that graphically here. Here, we have this magnesium file in what is an evacuated container containing no oxygen, okay? And you can see that it's just glowing. It's not doing very much, okay? We take that same file at that same temperature and put it into a flask containing only oxygen, right? And of course the concentration of oxygen is very low here, very high here, right? And you can see the difference in the relative reaction rate, okay? That's because reaction rate is proportional to the concentration of reactants. In this case, the reactants are magnesium and oxygen. If we have very little of oxygen here, it's not going to react very fast. If we have a lot, it's going to react very fast. Okay, why is this? Well, if a reaction occurs between A and B and the reaction mixture contains mostly A molecules like here, most of the collisions participated in A molecules will be with other A molecules, okay? In this case, definitely, because it's a solid, so they're just kind of vibrating in place. So therefore, if you're only hitting A molecules, the reaction rate will be low. So if you can imagine you've got a low concentration of B and you've got A here, A is trying to hit B's, okay? Well, I'll have an effective collision if I hit there, there. But if I hit there, I won't have an effective collision. If I increase the concentration of B, right? A can hit B there, there, there, there. So I increase the concentration by two times. So I get twice this quick of a reaction. So again, higher concentration means more reactant molecules per unit volume, and more reactant molecules means more collisions per time. Does that make sense to everyone? Cool, cool, okay. So again, you can see in this, well, kind of display, this is the same reaction between iron and oxygen, okay? But in this case, we are just letting the iron sit out and only the surface pieces of iron can react with oxygen to rust, okay? That's why when you've got a solid piece of iron, it takes years and years for it to rust. But if you've ever washed dishes with steel wool or something, you can see that the steel wool rust quite readily, right? It's because the surface area of the steel wool is much greater than the surface area of, like, I don't know, one of these iron, I don't know, whatever they are, clamps or whatever, you know? So what'll happen is that this will rust much faster because the oxygen is able to touch more of the iron surfaces, okay? So the more surface area you have, the faster the thing will react, okay? So in this case, we can say that the effective concentration of the iron is low, okay? And in this case, the effective concentration is high, right? So it says, however, wire wool and finely divided iron power rust more rapidly because their surface area and effective concentrations is much greater. Okay? So that was the first factor, concentration. Increase it. It makes it go faster. Decrease it and make it go slower. The physical state of the reactance is the second factor that will affect the rate. So of course, molecules must mix to collide. So if they're not mixing, they're not going to collide. Just like we said, if we've got two separate containers, they can't mix, so they won't react, right? So what you find is that when reactants are in the same phase or a homogenous reaction, they collide throughout their entirety. Same phase being liquid or gas, okay? Solid and solid, right? If I wanted to react this and this together, it would, even if I'm touching them, right, it would take a long time because you can't mix them very well. So when we're talking about homogenous reaction, we're talking about liquid, liquid, aqueous, liquid, aqueous, aqueous or gas, gas, okay? So, but when they're in different phases, as you can imagine, heterogeneous reaction, they collide only at the phase interface, just like what was happening with iron bars or whatever. They were on the last slide, right? So let's just graphically represent what I'm talking about, right? So say we've got some sort of iron bar in a beaker. We want it to rust, right?  What will happen is the oxygen can only react with the surface molecules, right? So you only have reactions here. If I wanted to, if you can imagine being in the surface or in the center of this thing, the iron atoms in the center will take a very, very long time to react, okay?  So it can only react at the phase interface there, okay? That's what that's saying. Reactions between oppositely charged ions on the other hand in solution, like it's happening right here, is almost immediate, okay? Because, of course, ions that are of opposite charges are fairly strongly attracted to each other and once they get into a media where they can flow freely, they'll kind of stick to each other almost immediately. So it says this is because the ions are strongly attracted because of their opposite electrical charges. So you can see this reaction taking place essentially, instantaneously, once you dump these two solutions together, okay? So let's just make, make the points again. Reactions occur when reactants can collide frequently with sufficient energy. So in the solid state, atoms, ions, and compounds are so close together, but they're restricted in motion, right? So they can't react with whichever molecules they come into contact with because they're only in contact with their surrounding ions and atoms. This is in the solid state. In the gaseous state, you would expect reactions to go very quickly, right? And they do relative to solid state, but in the gaseous state, particles are free to move but are often very far apart, okay? So the collisions are very infrequent. Very, that's a relative term, okay? Again, gaseous reactions are much faster than solid state reactions. On the other hand, if you think about what the molecular nature of liquids are like, right? Liquids in the liquid state, particles are free to move and are in close proximity with each other. So they move all about rolling on top of each other, right? So they have free range of motion and they're in close contact with each other. So what you'll find is that reactions tend to be fastest in the liquid state and of course slowest in the solid state, okay? That's a good reason for us to work with liquids in labs, yeah? So we don't usually take two solids and mix them together, right? Although we have done that, done a reaction like that in lab. Remember the sulfur and the iron that we mixed together to form pyrite or fool's gold, right? Yeah, so you remember that? We heated it up and, you know, kind of mixed it up. Okay, so liquids much faster, gasses a little slower, solids almost don't go at all. And it looks like I have the same slide twice, okay? So let's skip that other slide and go to the third factor, which is the temperature of the reaction. So of course we've been talking about molecules hitting each other, but just like we were talking about last time, they have to hit each other with enough energy, right, in order to react. So remember temperature and energy are essentially the same thing. So if I have a higher temperature, I'm at a higher energy state, right? So if I'm at a higher energy state, right, and I'm flying around hitting other molecules, I'll be hitting those molecules with more energy, right, with more power, right? So I'll have more effective collisions. And what you find is that temperature actually has a major effect on the speed of the reaction. You probably, we've looked at these pictures before, not in this context, but you might not be able to see it very well, but it says 0.2 degrees Celsius here, so that's very cold, almost freezing the water here. But I don't know if you can see, but these, so these guys outside are in room temperature, okay? And we're comparing them to the ones inside of the cold water here, and hopefully you can see that the light is very low relative to the ones outside in room temperature. And then when we heat the solution up to 59 degrees or the water up to 59 degrees and we compare them to the ones that are at room temperature, they're brighter, okay? So you can see it goes, there's this kind of progression from very dimly lit to intermediate lit to brightly lit. And these glow sticks are kind of like those reaction mixtures that I was talking about. Has anybody ever used a glow stick before, right? So what's the first thing you have to do in order to, yeah, you got to break it, right? So what are you breaking? In actuality, what's, how it's happening is that there's two compartments in these things and there's a glass piece in between them, right? And you break it and once those particles mix up, that's when the reaction occurs, okay? So when we cool these particles down after we break it, right, they don't have very much energy even though they're both in the liquid state, right? And they're rolling on top of each other just because they're rolling on top of each other doesn't mean they're hitting each other with enough energy, so they're still not being able to react effectively, okay? Increasing the temperature, of course, will let them react more effectively thereby giving us from hardly any light to much more light and then if we heat them up even more, right, they produce even more light. You can see this again. Okay, so here's another representation of what the molecules behavior is when we're looking at the temperature, okay? So what we can say is the general rule is that the rate increases as the temperature increases. Why is this? This is because increased temperature relates directly to the increased average kinetic energy. Remember I said the temperature and energy are essentially the same thing, okay? So if we have greater kinetic energy, that means the speed of the particles are effectively faster, okay? So if the speed of the particles are faster then the likelihood of collision is greater and of course the likelihood of collision or effective collisions is even greater than that. So higher average kinetic energy means a higher percentage of these collisions will result in product formation, okay? So hopefully that makes sense. Let's look at it graphically here. So if we look at this graph, what we see is that the mean or the average, if you will, of the cooler particles, so that's the particles under the line blue, okay? It's going to be about here where the big hump is, right? Okay? So does everybody, can everybody understand this graph? Okay? So most of the particles, this is saying how many there are and how much energy they have, okay? So most of the particles have that much energy, right? If I heat the solution up, right? I get a more expanded range of temperatures, but what you find is that the average temperature increases to here or the average kinetic energy increases to here, right? So it goes from here to here, right? And so what you'll find is that since most, more of them have higher average kinetic energy, then you're going to have higher effective collisions, okay? So that's what this is showing represent, representatively. What it's really saying here is where the activation energy has become overtaken, right? So we went over the little hump here, right? And this thing not working. Whatever. The hump, right? So over the hump right there, you can see if we're cold, there's only that many that get over the hump. If we're hot, right? We have more, okay? So does that make sense? Okay, cool. Okay, so increased temperature, increased effective collisions, increased reaction, right? Catalyst. So a catalyst is something that will also increase the reaction rate. How does it increase the reaction rate? It increases it by lowering the activation energy. So it's lowering the hill, right? That the molecules have to climb. So if I lower the hill, I can get over it faster. So I can make the reaction faster. So it's graphically represented here, although this is a more detailed picture than you guys really need to understand. So let's just look at it over here. What you find is a catalyst. When you put a catalyst in, you'll have actually two transition states. One transition state to grab the two reactants and one transition state to release the products, okay? But as far as we're concerned, you can just say the catalyst lowers the activation energy and you can just do kind of like a dotted line like that, okay? Giving a new pathway, okay? So this would be like burrowing, like if you could imagine instead of having to climb a mountain, you could burrow a tunnel through that mountain, right? And what you'll find is that you get your cars through the mountain faster than it would take to go over the mountain, okay? So that's kind of like what a catalyst is. A catalyst is actually, what it really is, is like something that has the right structure to actually grab both of the reactant molecules and put them in close proximity together in order to form an effective collision, okay? So that's how it lowers the activation energy. So what you find is that instead of this being our activation energy, we have a new activation energy, right? And its symbol is EA cat, okay? So cat being the catalyzed activation energy. So again, a catalyst is a substance that increases the reaction rate but undergoes no overall change in the reaction. So a catalyst does not alter the final product of the reaction. It gives you the same product, it just gives you that product much quicker, okay? So homogenous catalysts are substances that are distributed uniformly throughout a reaction mixture. So you can imagine they're like in the same phase as your reaction mixture. A heterogeneous catalyst is a substance that normally is used in the form of solids that have large surface areas, okay? So like a lot of times your reactions, again, are in the liquid media. Sometimes your catalysts are solids, so we'll put a solid brick in the bottom of your liquid media and we call this a heterogeneous catalyst. So again, just to emphasize it, catalysts provide an alternate reaction pathway that requires less activation energy than the normal pathway. It's proposed that solid catalysts provide the surface which reactant molecules absorb. Absorb means like being stuck into it, okay? So it kind of can grab things. And then puts them in favorable orientations relative to each other, okay? And then absorbed molecules with favorable orientations are located close enough to each other to react. So then there's such a thing as a negative catalyst or what we know as an inhibitor. So an inhibitor lowers the activation energy of the reaction by placing the reactants and not in close proximity, okay? So this should just cross that out. And not in the correct orientation. So an inhibitor is a substance that decreases the reaction rate but undergoes no overall change in the reaction and does not alter the final product of the reaction. So it's the same thing as a catalyst just backwards, okay? So you can see, well, inhibitors, they're like a lot of things that are poisonous to us are inhibitors like carbon monoxide poisoning and carbon monoxide inhibits your hemoglobin to bind oxygen because it binds to it better, okay? So you can see, well, you've got a substrate here. Substrate means the thing that the thing is supposed to bind, okay? So this is its natural binding thing. But then you've got this inhibitor here. This is like what carbon monoxide does to oxygen. If you can imagine this being hemoglobin down here, carbon monoxide bonds to hemoglobin faster and better than oxygen does. So it sticks there and doesn't allow the oxygen to bind in that site, okay? Or you could have a different type of inhibitor where the inhibitor binds at a site that's not what we call the active site of the enzyme. So it can bind outside the active site, but once it binds there, it kind of manipulates the shape of the enzyme in order to close the binding pocket for the natural substrate, thus allowing or not allowing the natural substrate to get in there, okay? So this one would be like putting a gum in a key lock, right? Okay? So you get it in there. Now you can't stick your key in there, okay? This one would be like taking a hammer and smashing the, you know, lock in order to deform it so the key can't fit in there, okay? So there's two different ways that you can do this by gumming it up or by like kind of, you know, manipulating the structure of the thing, okay? And the last thing that affects the rate of reaction is the structure and orientation of the reactants. So we keep talking about the same things over and over because we have to to talk about all of them. So it's kind of like what we talked about up here. These things have to be oriented in this fashion in order to make that bond and that bond, right? What if I add them oriented like this? Will we have a reaction? No, right? If this thing's going this way, this thing's going this way because when we try to react, those things don't react together so we won't have a reaction, okay? So they have to be oriented in the right way. So the right orientation, they've got to have the right energy and it's got to be between the product or the reactants, right? If a reactant hits a product, it's not going to form the proper reaction. So notice here, you've got an effective collision because it's got a lot of energy here. We're either hitting the things in the wrong place or not enough energy. So remember, oppositely charged species react very quickly, okay? So dissociated ions in solution whose bonds have already been broken have a very low activation energy. In fact, it just takes them to get into contact with each other. Ions with the same charge do not react with each other. Bond strength, of course, will play a role. In covalent molecules, bonds must be broken. Using that extra energy before the bonds can be formed. So the magnitude of the activation energy is related to the magnitude of the bond strength, right? So if we have very strong bonds, it's going to be very hard to break, right? And the size and shape influence the reaction. So large molecules may obstruct the reactive part of the molecule, okay? So let's talk about that. So let's say we've got a molecule or two molecules that want to react with each other. But one of the molecules is very big, say, that's what one of the molecules look like, okay? And the reactive portion, we'll say, is right there in the middle of it, okay? And then we have this other molecule that wants this other particle that wants to react with it. So it's got to hit it, it's got to get through all of this junk, right? And hit it in the exact right place in order to react, okay? In order to form a good reaction and go to product. If this thing hits it there, it's not going to react, hits it there, it's not going to react, hits it there, hits it there. So a lot of times what you find is that big molecules obstruct their reactive portions and don't allow other molecules to react with them, thereby making the reaction rate decrease, okay? And again, only the correct orientation, just like what we were talking about, leads to product formation. This is essentially the same thing looking at it kind of the way we did up here. Let's introduce equilibrium and then we'll save the major equilibrium discussion for Friday and Monday, I guess, okay? Okay, so equilibrium, what is equilibrium? Well, equilibrium is the dynamic balance between forward and reverse reactions and the study of how to influence this boundary by outside forces. So what is an equilibrium reaction? This is a reaction that does not go to completion, okay? So let's look at a representation of this. So if I say A goes to B, at the beginning of this reaction we'll only have A in solution, right? And at the end we'll only have B, okay? So this reaction goes to completion, so this reaction is not in equilibrium. The reaction that is in equilibrium, show that, okay? Notice the difference in arrows, okay? This is called a forward arrow, okay? This is called an equilibrium arrow. In the beginning of this reaction, it's just going to have C, but at the end, because C goes to D and D goes back to C, we're not only going to have D in the reaction mixture at the end, we'll have both C and D, okay? Because the reaction goes back and forth, back and forth. So there are various types of equilibrium reactions. Some reactions go almost to completion, some go halfway to completion, and some go very little of the way towards completion. So we can represent these reactions like this, okay? So the ones that almost go to completion will be represented like that with that type of equilibrium arrow. Ones that go to an intermediate completion value would be like that, and ones that go very little to completion would be like that. So when we're looking at these two different reactions here, HCl in water, what we find is that this reaction goes to completion, like that. But this reaction, acetic acid in water, notice does not go to completion, okay? But both of these reactions take less than one second to get to their final equilibrium concentrations, okay? But even though they're both very fast, one of them goes to completion the other doesn't, okay? The last thing we'll talk about is physical equilibria. So physical equilibria are always what we can call reversible reactions or reversible processes. So some reversible processes that are physical equilibria that you should be familiar with would be like dissolved oxygen in a lake, ice from water, formation of ice from water, and sugar dissolved in water. So remember a reversible reaction is a process that can occur in both directions and uses the double space equilibrium or the double arrow equilibrium arrow. A dynamic equilibrium is once you get to the state of equilibrium, it's when the rate of the forward process in a reversible reaction is exactly balanced by the rate of the reverse process. So notice here, at the beginning of a reaction, like this reaction here, we only have C and we have none of D, right? So the rate of C going to D is very fast at first and the rate of D going to C is also very fast at first. But once you get to equilibrium, the rates become equal. So you have just as many C's going to D as D's going to C, okay? So even though the concentration might not be the same, right? We might have a very low concentration of these things. We still have the same amount going back and forth, okay? So it's just like this. If we look at the two first desks or benches here, we've got three people in bench one and six people in bench two, right? So there's a higher concentration of people on bench two, right, than there are on bench one. If I said, okay, we're at equilibrium, so these are your reactants, these are your products. And there always has to be three to six ratio, but they can't be the same people. What we would find is that the people would be climbing back and forth, back and forth at the same rate, but we would find, right, that the people would be all different always, okay? If we took a snapshot after every, like, five minutes or something, the people would all be rearranged. It's not, so what we'll find is that there will always be three here and always be six there. This is kind of like what happens in a dynamic equilibrium. So even though the concentrations aren't the same, you'll have this forward and reverse process with the rate being exactly equal. So just emphasize it. Continuous change is taking place, but no observable change in the amount of, well in this case, solid sugar or dissolved sugar is being shown, right? This would be like if you got a bunch of sugar that's at the bottom of your cup undissolved, right? What you find is that that sugar is not static. It's not staying just sitting there, right? It's going back and forth to solution and back to solid, okay? Thanks a lot, guys, for listening.


how are you pretty good it's 8 p.m. here and it's afternoon for you yet is it is just had lunch so where do you want to start where do I want to start it's probably the question the catalyst is that I can't yeah I think I sent you a document about the catalyst there's been many catalysts and given where we are given the the huge issues we face a lot of the decision-making seems to be not just here but all over the world it's firefighting and so it occurred to me that if we when we make a decision if we looked at the causes of the of the of the issue that we're trying to treat well the first one is actually ask that question what do we trying to what we trying to solve because quite often that that doesn't get asked so if we stated the issue rather than just come up with the solution out of a vacuum we might understand better why we why our solution is tackling that issue and if we then if we if we stated that issue it then might be possible to say well actually is there any other way of dealing with this issue and we've got one in the UK at the moment where we've got a housing crisis so this is a probably a good example and so the solution is to build more houses which sounds obvious until you start looking at the real reasons why we the housing crisis actually it's because houses are more expensive people aren't be able to afford the houses so then the question comes why they more expensive and so on so so it occurred to me that if we actually recorded and publicly recorded the issues we're actually trying to address and because what happens when it comes down to to my locality we the experience we have we just get a new a new housing development and the only thing we can do we can really do as a jet we've got no choice to do anything else or accept and so there seems to be a disjuncture there so and and this is a parallel with this when there was a competition I don't know whether you knew about the global challenge challenge yeah to to come up with this with an alternative to the UN well lots of questions to come up there when you're not going to create an alternative out of again out of nothing so and I was referring back to the sunflower moon the sensible thing to me is seems to be to create another platform where you can actually discuss the same issues or similar issues the problem of course then comes is that generally I don't know I don't know Taiwan I think you're probably more engaged in the UK the general population and very disengaged with politics because it's just one of those things that happens and we just put up with it so that's that's possibly an issue but when you've got a local problem like we have with these so so put in context I live in a village with about 850 houses and it's evolved over the years so we have we don't have roads we have lanes and they're the width of a good tractor so one the modern tractor completely fills the lane and so we've got 850 houses connected with these lanes and there's a few you could arguably say two two lane but most of them are one lane because they've got cars parked along so there's there's a restriction there with the infrastructure and we are currently fighting 250 houses extra and it's just not gonna and it's not gonna work but we've got no no alternative we've got no way to debate an alternative and when you discuss it with local people they say well what can we do as well at least we could just plan what we want and present at least we've got a starting point but we don't even have that so there's there's a there's a gap to my mind a gap in our deliberative processes not just for the way we deliberate but in the places and how we deliberate so the sunflower movement was a great example of how it might be done differently so I set up a group to to have a look at this challenge using the sunflower model as a mirroring and then we needed a decision-making process how we're gonna make decision so that's where I came up with this let's let's try and hook it in with this system you familiar with systems theory yes yeah so so if we hooked it into systems theory and we could then get a bigger picture and say well actually why we what are we doing first and why are we doing it and then when you've come up with a proposal we can actually examine that proposal and say well what are the effects of that proposal what are the knock-on effects the unseen side of things and and if we record them then we can debate them late at a later stage we could actually invite experts in because we're going to find places where we don't have knowledge most of time and so we could we could then have this deliberation get as far as we can and then say well we need we need experts we need to understand the data we need to find the truth because there's what tends to happen in these and we've had a few meetings recently they get very heated and people come up with their version of why it's blame it on the capitalists the immigrants the lazy folk whatever some so let's look at the actual the truth what is that what are the figures of what are the figures of immigration immigration what are the figures for capitalism and we know let's look at the numbers and within our community we probably don't have the expertise so but we can call on the expertise what came out of that was then if we had a deliberating process say in our village and we recorded it and we recorded it next to the as a structure that identified the systems that we're connecting to any other community if they came up with a similar issue could say as soon as they punch in land building housing shortage our deliberation can also come up and they can see what we've done and so that could knock on and knock on knock on knock on so that's I think that's the core of what what I'm trying we don't have the software I've been playing with the the schema I've got a background in linguistics and database so that's happy territory for me but again again you come up with how far do you normalize and how for efficiency how far do you do you normalize the data or how vague do you make it so that it still works so there's a place to sort out what's efficient and what's not efficient so that's it's the structure I've sort of got but I'm not sure until it's tried and tested I don't know whether it's the right structure and we don't have the software so lots of catch-22s and I don't know I don't I'm not quite sure how your the the system you have with the parallel mirror quite how that works and whether there's any prompts for where you're out of your depth and do you ask somebody else and how you how you work with all that more how you struggle at all well it's almost entirely dependent on the size of the group how well the group knows each other and how far physically are the group members from each other how their life experiences overlap there's three factors can almost determine the tool that we use to facilitate the process for tightly made groups like a hundred people or less who already know each other digital tools are just for archival it's just for recording as you said for like-minded groups or for follow-up discussions but what's really key at that scale is professional facilitation it is a facilitator that can get people into the right emotion which is after everybody share their life experience their story their narratives toad get into the sense of okay so we have very different life experiences but are there some common values and so this facilitation we found was the key to small group who already share some life experience my main work is on how to create empathy among groups who share no life experience at all who have no personal connection to speak of to each other and using language of experts of different domains and to kind of put them on a shared mind map so that everybody can understand the issue at hand but using the vocabulary and structure that they are comfortable with so it is a little bit like simultaneous interpretation but not between languages but rather between worldviews and so so that's the main work but for a hundred people or less who already know each other and share the same language like British English that's overkill to be frank so normally a like weekly or bi-weekly gathering a ongoing relationship plenty of food which people can bring by themselves a good recording or capturing device is all you need and the capturing device could be this course is pretty popular for very tiny groups Lumio is even better and so there are already ready-made tools for exactly this purpose for capturing structured data and the context so yeah that that's the main feedback I have because it seems that in your case most people share somewhat similar experiences until you scale up and then it gets then it gets more diverse or until there's vested interest with this which is an issue going back to my example here the the people that turn up in the meeting are generally the articulate the confident the comfortable arguably the wealthy that's not so true the last one is not so true but the I don't know the demographic is definitely not representative of the community and the question my question really my my concern really is how we get a representative form matches the demographic well I'm not sure about statistical representation because even if you do sortation and get a demographically sound part that's just the first half of the problem the second half is to get the people who share the demographic who did not get chosen for the sortation or invited to the quorum to somehow accept the result as something that they're willing to get along with that they're okay to live with because no decisions about it without us right so anyone who can claim to be a stakeholder but did not get discovered or was not drawn in the sortation or someone who shares their background did get drawn into the sortation but they don't have the rhetorics and oratory skills and so they lost their argument and so on all those different conditions may arise that makes the statistical representation void now of course if you compare it to the representative democratic system arguably you can say well but that's still useful input to the MPs and and to that degree everybody would agree like this is useful input this is useful agenda setting this determines what may be overlooked by the MPs and their crew or the city council and the crew to this point everybody will agree but if you try to replace even part of the policymaking or budget-making power of the existing representative system then just statistical representation or statistical representativeness is not enough because it does not factor in as I said the capability of propagation back to the community as well as the still unequal rhetorics feel of the people who did get chosen for the program you sure about that I'm pretty pretty sure about it yeah there's quite a few examples that I've personally worked with and we kind of went with the hybrid model where we get stakeholders experts so-called representative from communities deliberating in one room of maybe 30 people and have a town hall where hundreds thousands of people can watch the live stream of the experts doing the deliberation and so it's a one-way live stream because the town hall there may be people who want to protest there may be people who want to derail the discussion but I'm personally in the town hall part so so they can come to the main and make their point or make the voice heard on a pretty good platform for Slido SL IDL designed for this kind of real-time crowdsourced agenda but a smaller room which is being broadcasted to the larger room gets to focus on the discussion at hunt uninterrupted and so my role is like a I don't know ESPN anchor or something who explains what happens in the smaller room live stream to the larger room to the larger town hall people so that they know in their lay person's language what's at play for each play each move that the experts make in the smaller room but in this express room we don't mean academic experts only we mean people with live experience that are generally honored and recognized and so on and people in the town hall can see that they are group of person performing real-time and informing their discussion through asynchronous and online participation so that's one of the ways that we try to maintain both the scale and the quality of the discussion but still with this is rearrangement it accommodates maybe to one thousand people scaling beyond that we don't have a very good experience scaling beyond one thousand people we resort back to AI power conversations which is crowdsourced but it's almost takes only there's very little supporting material and so we can only do the problem discovery part and check each other's feelings in design thinking terms that's just first quarter or a little bit over first quarter of the first diamond but everything else that how may we questions and so on we still have to do it face to face there's some active research going on in virtually out here and so on but I would say they're not mature for this purpose for at least another two or three years yeah yeah yeah I mean the other the other problem is that quite often you you're in any technical solution cuts people out because they don't have the internet there's still quite a few I don't know what the percentage is but you know it's a measurable but certainly here there's a measurable percentage that just don't have the internet and don't want to have the internet well certainly you can bring the internet to them though you just organize a offline meeting and then make sure that it's well captured like we did in rural island we capture everything 360 video but we had to post-process it and upload it afterwards yeah yeah yeah so how do you bootstrap something like that from here well Taiwan Taiwan has kind of a very recent history with democracy right we only had democracy for 30 years so I still remember the martial law so for us democracy is a very new thing as is the war web and so because of this it's somewhat easier because people find that there's so much room to experiment with they don't think democracy as just some other process because this is a very new thing to us and in the UK as far as I understand because I'm traveling as I mentioned to Edinburgh later next week they share this model of the so-called highland and island development agency yeah which there's a lot of grassroots organizing but they still use technology but social technology to empower the local decision-making by essentially putting more and more of the building in the commons and have the decision-making power vested especially to the younger generation but also to people who are invested their life their career to the development the betterment of this region in general but just not to them personally and so I think it's been quite well known in the international social enterprise community as a web model but I don't know how well versed you are in this community organization I'm familiar and familiar with I know of it but like that and in some ways the highlands are probably because of their situation and the necessity they've needed to get the communication because they're very disbred out and it's actually difficult to get to be so they've had to facilitate it in some ways and in many ways they leapfrog the UK the rest of the UK as the England and Wales I don't Wales is actually there's some interesting things going on in Wales for much the same reason you know it's been margin isn't it's difficult to to get from from your neighbor to neighbor they're not all next door they're not walking distance so so they've had to leverage technology to actually get things done and the knock on effect of that is actually they've got a I think they're a more connected more engaged community with decision-making whereas in the bulk of the UK we just go yeah it's going to happen and yeah okay fine let me get on with the rest of my life and people are disengaged I mean worse than that that they're probably because the only the only thing that they know how to do is to object that's we tend to do that all the time that's how modus operandi so the unfortunate side effect and going back to the situation here is that the local council we have parish council which is the very local council and then we have the district council which is next to no other and they're both seen as the enemy so that's not helpful and it's we to my mind we need to find some way to to to break that them and us so that it's just us that's not them as well so have anyone in the nearby civic council or whatever tried for example participatory budgeting or any of those new devices that connects the the people who object with people who make the decisions okay not not what I'm aware of well then then I think the most practical way is just to find a friendly or at least attentive person with facilitation training or with social work training that often helps and so on in the local city bureaucracy if the council is not helping often the career public servants are sympathetic with it but I mean they're largely anonymous so they probably would not come out and just say you know I think there should be more lurking engagement but surely there must be someone in a correct position to start piloting a a dialogue to break the ice so to speak you can import facilitators from anywhere even from the highland islands but it really needs buy-in at least from a career public servant in the city to start even turning the wheel so to speak if the council as you mentioned is generally seen as the enemy at least some people would still trust for example people working in the I don't know statistics department people working in the planning department and things like that because they're career public servants yeah I think the problem I'm like I'm guessing on on um if a problem's looking ahead I'm not looking for problems but I suspect that the I don't know if it'd be an interesting one to to because I can think of a couple of names and I think they might feel be interesting to try because they might feel they might like conflicted interest conflict of interest not sure that's that's a good one to to look at yeah I'm not talking about forcing them to make a change to the decision-making process I'm just saying building a report like like just trust between people yeah that's a good good point so I'd be interested to hear what what are your thoughts about the sort of system side of it and because I see that as quite important as a way of of explaining the bigger picture to people because we are faced with some huge issues that most people I talk to go well what can we do about it and they don't think there is there is I think you know the only way we're going to do it do anything about all these you know pollution climate change you know there's a the list the list is big by diversity and they're all connected and they seem to be so big that we we can we can we can we can't do anything about them and so it's left to governments to make agreements and we can we've seen what happens when someone like America for example pulls out stops so how you know I'm because I'm thinking if we had this had a system like the one you've got and it was scalable and I think there's the issue where you're saying about the scalable and how do you scale with because the only way you can I can see you can actually scale is to have some form of representation um at some level you're going to need because you can't just have everybody connected saying we we should do this and we should do that but there isn't some scaling where we can actually engage the public to understand the issues and then make and and get buy-in for the solutions because that's the that's that's the hardest part it doesn't it does I mean we've got well I think we've got more buying for example now with plastic you know people understand and that's due to a television program you know people understand it so now the tide is shifting a bit where people are looking at things encased in plastic saying well actually I'd rather buy that without the plastic so that it is happening but whether it's happening it's at the right sufficient speed I'm not sure well I think there's three kinds of scaling I like to mention there is of course horizontal scaling scaling out and you're correct in saying that there needs to be some kind of model if not representation outright at least some delegates like small world network to maintain when you scale out there's also scaling up which is a single message reinforced and more and more people join like in a traditional social movement for that you don't need that much representation you just need a actionable connected extensible message that that's all you need to scale up but of course it's kind of narrow it's not all the sustainable development goes here it could be it would be just one and a very single simple one at that like the I don't know ice bucket challenge me too or whatever and it's pretty good at scaling up right and there's the third dimension which I often mention is scaling deeply meaning that in places where the cross-sectoral relationship is absent or toxic one can scale deeply meaning get fellows from each sector relate to do that problem to be in the shoes of the other stakeholders at play by just shipping people around having fellowship building report sharing food and so on and that scales in a deep way meaning if you have a for example university that inbox on a social responsibility program that have their students solve social problems as part of the course then it actually determines how those students view the world down the line maybe for the next 30 years or so and ceiling deeply early works of course informative yes because it's very hard to change someone's worldview without resorting to like existential level stuff and that's also works so I'm not saying that adults are hopeless I'm just saying it's much easier if you start your base in basic education in the college and looking face that right I mean I'm 37 now so I'm hopelessly optimistic I don't think anything will change that as part of my core personality but what I'm saying is that that's because I joined the world web and the open source development in its formative days and so that ethics I carry with me no matter where I go and that's what I mean by scaling deeply and so I think education is a large part of it but it's not education system or institute per se but just getting kids in the habits of doing meaningful environmental and social work and identifying with the purpose but not the instrument or the skill of the tools and that's the third dimension I would like to mention which also skills but you just need to wait longer yeah yeah yeah yeah that's that goes back to the education thing which again you know takes time doesn't it I mean part of my thinking with that with the process I've been designing is that if you if you collect a lot of people say we've you know we've got an issue say with housing take this example it's a real example and you actually then say well okay what what is the causes of this it gets people thinking and it's a form it's a sort of critical thinking but at a very basic level um but once that started and then you say well okay well so you think that's it doesn't matter whether it is the cause so much but if you think it's the cause then we can discuss it you might want to want to discuss it with um so say we are you familiar probably familiar with with world cafe in open space so so world cafe does have a they both got the different advantages at world cafe is quite useful in that it can help people who don't feel comfortable in large groups to to actually participate and get little discussions going there so once you start looking at the cause and you can say well okay what's the cause of that and this is the socratic question and and until you get you could ask them or say well you know when we're doing this this this discovery until you can get back to nature says it so then you can find a cause that we can do something about perhaps depending on the circumstance and that that opens up a lot of a lot of thinking well actually what we've got now is not necessarily a given so what could we do to make it better whether we can is not so much important but it's the education the understanding and likewise and they say when somebody comes up with a proposal you say well what are the what are the knock-on effects of this proposal what are the actual what's actually going to happen you know the cost consumption and materials and the societal harm necessarily and so on and so forth so it's a form of education to me I mean again I don't know I've never really tried it yet that's worked but I have tried it it's not worked but that's in my in my defense I tried it as a as a for a protest group I mean you've got a protest it's all we're going to do as a test they don't want to hear the other side so I think in a if you if you can get it neutral and say okay we've got this issue let's just have a get all the people to talk about it and once you start looking at the knock-on effects of the proposals you can see because we're you know we don't have much room for maneuver now whatever we decide to do and I was looking at a thing today about Greece they've got a smart city and there's all they're doing all sorts of things and they all sound good but I'm just thinking about well actually some of that doesn't sound too good sounds like a good idea and good fun but where's the power going to come from where's the people going to come from we know where's the employment going to come from because that's a big issue and so there's all these knock-on effects if you get automated vehicles you've done people out of a job so it's it's it's I think the structure would help people understand the situation as much as the bigger picture yeah and then if my office in Taipei is called social innovation lab we have autonomous vehicles on trial and it's an experiment and they're tricycles they're just slow-ish tricycles and I live just close to this Jian Guo flower market and they solve a very real social problem which is elderly people strolling along the central park of Taipei at the Dan Forest Park go into flower market bought a lot of flowers pots and things like that and they're kind of heavy but they don't want to rent a taxi because it's just you know 15 minutes walks away and and they they want to keep shopping right they don't want to be dragged down and so there's just so much they can do with the autonomy without enlisting I don't know their grandchildren or something so so having a tricycle they're just accompanying them and you can just put stuff on it and at the end of it you can just hop on it and drive to home it's actually very helpful I don't think it made anyone lose any jobs I think it is a purely socially beneficial device uh yeah but I think it's worth asking the question so so you so I don't want to go necessarily on the specifics but so on that particular one and you you actually said they don't want to ask their friends and family so there's a connection they've lost they've lost a reason to make that connection so that could have a knock-on effect no but if they ask their family but their family is just there to help picking and carrying stuff then they can't do as much as real conversation as they would do if they have invited on a normal a company trip you know it this is that taking the trivial part out of the connection because I don't think that the grandchildren or teenagers are very happy if they're just reduced to you know a carrier or something yeah yeah yeah so that that's what I mean by by kind of equalizing the relationship between humans uh by automating part of the work that is not a seen as a desirable job but as a kind of I don't know uh filial piety I I know this concept doesn't quite mean as much in the UK but yeah um something a obligation to your family so so it makes the family dynamic more more dynamic is what all what I'm saying um so I don't think it really deprives any social connection but again we're just on field trial here but what I'm going on is because this is open source technology and the local students loves to modify the build and it's slow enough it collects useful data open data but it doesn't hurt anyone even if it runs into something it has the right to road as any pedestrian and so we're basically saying you know these kind of automations because are the key to deepen the understanding between AI and collective intelligence and instead of seeing something that you know pulls them apart it ties them together it may may not be the perfect example but it's the one that springs to my mind but you understand what I was saying about asking those other questions that you know it's useful to ask them because it's very easy to get beguiled into thinking this is wonderful very much so so so we really need to do quantitative studies before and after and that that's why we run experiments yeah yeah um all right so so given what we've talked about how how can we and apart from this apart from the um the human side where I can I can find the right people to I mean facilitators isn't so much a problem because it's open open space technologies there's enough people understand that stuff um probably to be able to you to to get somebody to facilitate that's less of an issue um but engaging with the authorities on that I have to give that some thought um the deep thing is is the long-term thing um is if I am going to use this structure with um issues causes and effects proposals and effects ratings is how because you mentioned Lumio it has some of that but it doesn't have that structure um it's getting the software to what what software would be available to you I mean I the only thing I can think is to build something from scratch well um we're we're working on some early prototypes the one we actually use day to day is called real-time board but real-time board is just post-it notes online collaboratively uh and so it all depends on how you organize those post-it notes uh and that takes skill uh and we use the actually the policy lab uk um policy making toolkit um and and their way of using the post-it notes uh so at least that's something that your government invented and therefore should understand uh but I think the policy lab people um the policy uh toolkit the lab developed is worth looking into if just for the shared vocabulary because as career public servants they are kind of required to know the stuff uh that's policy lab uk um and um we're developing ourselves as you said in has quite a few software to automate the process of just putting post-it notes of the right color on the right points to connect the course in fact and effects and stakeholders and so on and there's currently two efforts in Taiwan but they're both I think being developed in a kind of early stages one is called sense sense that tw which is just you know making sense of something so sense that tw um and it's trying to basically link um I don't know whether you know the idea of web annotations uh which is a web standard that you can take a pdf file a local development planning picture a website whatever n-star highlighting and annotating on any part of it without the support from the site administrator it's overlay right so what it tries to do firefox plugin that does that that does exactly right so sense is trying to turn that overlay and mark it with the causing the effect lines as you said and make a mind map out of it so you can have a bird's eye view but you can also zoom in to the actual sources where there's um evidences or uh fact or whatever are being presented and so that's sense tw's project structure again the the the the thing I think the first thing that comes to mind there is that affected you've got to create the back to the curated library thing which is great if you've got lots of create curators um and what I'm what I'm sort of aiming for is this the process is self-curating yeah um so the the other thing is uh wikam wikam so it's like wiki and a foreign so so so it causes self-wikam uh and what what it does is that you take a unstructured conversation as you said lumino discourse read it you name it but then it recursively enables people who participate to build mind maps that summarize fragments of discussions until you have a bird's eyes picture so unlike sense tw it doesn't come from library or citational sources where it comes from a live dialogue uh that takes place in a threaded discussion uh and the author is now working on putting the same technology to slack which is kind of different right because it's real time and it's far more back and forth than a forum which uh it tends to be self-containing but if they solve it for slack then it also solves for capture transcript of face-to-face open space technology because it's like slack if you type it down right so so wikam i think it's also something you can look into that that's just to wikam wikum kum yeah come across that don't you it's from emmy chung yeah so yeah wikum i think i think the you know i'm i'm old school i'm xml schema you know that sort of technology where it's defa predefined um which has its issues obviously if you pre at some point you have to define your category somewhere along with that eventually you've got to you've got to give them field names somehow and that's the conundrum whether you start with field names or whether you have a general concept field fields as opposed to field specific field names and i've gone for the specific field names in a sort of general sense so the specific field name would be issue or actually the specific field name there would be point of interest type as issue so because they're all points of interest on the on the system or a circle so it's fairly fairly generic and the other going the other thing i'm i'm hope if it if i pursue this which is another question altogether um is that you could have a place for um somebody who comes up with a solution for an issue and says well i'd like to store this and and enter it into a database so that so that people can actually use it and benefit from it and they could do that too but it would ask them what issue and what what cycle it's what part of what cycle it's trying to address um so that it could actually act as a sort of potentially global repository there's what there's you know i could talk to you about it for hours but um there's there's the other aspect or another aspect of it is that um going on this like the domain name registrar's model you could have multiple registrar's of this data who could do their own manipulation of it if they wanted to examine it in their own way or even if if there's a because again you and i are talking from a from a place of a democracy there are places where they don't have democracy and it's it's not so easy to do what we're talking about so the model i i i think would work in places of slightly more or more strife because it enables communities to do it in a sort of protected way so they don't have to connect to some central server so they can actually run it from their smartphones and then they can put it in one of these repositories and they can learn from that sort of so so is there other aspect of it which i can discuss if you want to but yeah i have a bunch of friends who's working on it they call themselves the secure scuttlebutt consortium they're in new zealand and they're doing something that's well i've pasted you the link but the idea very simply put and i think mozilla has some support of it now but it is exactly as you said a distributed secure offline capable land enabled peer-to-peer social network and and they have built a lot of infrastructure so that you can do git development on it and if you can do git development on it then you can do everything really because then everything else on top of it is just a overlay and so if you want to build an implication this this could save you some time is what i what i'm saying yeah certainly would i mean and again you know that could be set if they could my thinking is that they could output their meeting data as an xml file validated against the schema stick it anywhere on any public space and then the the bots if when they arrive and when some people build them can search for these xml slugs incorporate them and they've got the data right right and so the schema we are using for our deliberation it's called akamantosa which is a proper xml vocabulary for parliamentary legislative and judiciary documents but it just so happens it can work for deliberations as well and the primary the flagship product of the akamantosa movement is also a uk product called say it and say it is in my society project and i keep all my meeting records in say it and and i think the the good thing about this is that just as you said if i have a meeting transcript say this one i just append dot a in after it to get the xml representation and so it people are not restricted to the visualization people can do a lot of cross culture even comparisons like compare between constitutions compare between judiciary decisions and so on based on the akamantosa vocabulary so there's also a useful foundation to build on give you a link to mine and i mean this is very early very early days so this is this came from a hackathon in capetown meeting which again it was it was very linear and it was it was done in in discourse actually and put in an osc days but it was a used discourse within that and of course you lose stuff it gets disappears so that's that's a bit styled at xml so then what you're what you're viewing on you'll probably see if you view source and see it's got yeah i think this is pretty good as a as a way to capture the um proposal at the issue level i think this is pretty good and i've got to give you a i've got a document i can which i've been playing with she probably explains a bit more i mean it's interesting it's very interesting talking to you because there's this is the first time i've talked to people who understand seem to understand the biggest bigger picture of what's going on um and i've done this pretty pretty much for a long time in a in a sort of vacuum so um yeah i called it climate change because that document on have you eaten it i'm sorry have you eaten i'm not holding up your supper no it's fun yeah i eat um xml pack suit that's good because most people get xml it's dead that's right which it isn't it's very much alive it's just not visible it's just become you know like democracy in the old democracies it just functions in the background yeah i mean in many ways i had i had a sort of a useful grounding in because i started with postscript um trying to do stuff on printers and we've come across postscript it is that postscript is actually that where pdfs came from as the pre pre pdf is just an encapsulated version of postscript this is before the web and then from there i went straight into xml because i was trying to do something with the mobile phones and they had a thing called wap again disappeared um technology overtook me yeah i i started coding in 89 so i still remember the days before the web yeah what were you coding in basic back at the time well logo of course but also basic yes well i've got friends who started in assembler hmm which is a which is a form of madness and i think yeah i learned that much later it's not my native language yeah i don't remember punch cards either so we're the relatively personal computerized generation well i think i mean we're we're digressing slightly but there was a very interesting jack called richard feinman probably heard of and he fought for a while to keep one of the old computers going that was that was analog had an analog weather computer and for a long time it was much better because it had no the steplers because it was analog and i think that's this there's a there's something there that i think we might have missed i think there's a there's something useful there about that um because digital is always there's always steps somewhere you could have defined your resolution whereas analog it's it's at an atomic level you know i don't know quantum level i don't know what level this it's it's very deep i've i've encountered a fabulous education tool i don't know whether you know it or not it's a computer game called democracy through um no you're no you are kidding me and its user interface is like 80 percent the same similar as the document as you just sent me it shows through green lines reinforcing causing effect through red lines a negative externality and the speed corresponds to how fast it's affecting other externalities and it has a very detailed policy model after populations are affected by policies and you can also add on some you know downloadable parts such as social engineering or clones and drones or election nearing or africa so i i felt this as an extremely good education tool so much so that i made a model for taiwan using our national development council's data just so that i can explain policies and i think this is a good way if not accurate for actual policy making to get everybody on the mindset of system think yeah yeah yeah that's that's very important i'm the thing i haven't mentioned which actually i'm not sure it is entirely relevant and tell me when you when you've got to go because i could i can talk to you for another couple of days i think um is when i started looking at this thinking well um and it got i i like i like to go back not quite to assembler but somewhere close so looking something i need to i like to like to um like to uh there's a ligma grab the google link um understand the you know the causation as i said so when you go back and you go back and you go back and i think well you know let's look at our history and most people go back to the poly and the polyonic they might go back to the middle age they might go back to the dark ages but actually if you to see where we with the inflection the inflection point is 10 000 years ago and there's an awful lot of interest i i i think i don't know whether it'll be of interest to you but there's an awful lot of changes and there's a couple of books i can give you some books as well if you want to illustrate what happens and it's a mindset thing you know so we have this we have this sort of duality of um nurturing empathy and as you were saying about getting getting people on board in that frame helps in the meeting otherwise they're competing for their square or their circle space or their whatever and and they don't know they're doing it people don't know they're doing it they don't know they're in sort of war footing or or loving footing you know there's these two two footings and what happened when when there's lots of arguments about why we we went from agrar from hunter-gatherer to agrarian there's juries to that on that but what happened was that suddenly things had value and worth whereas they weren't exactly worthless before but they weren't ascribed a value could then park and say it's worth that much so my this year's harvest i know how long it's taken me how much it hurt how much the work in effort and so so in my head it's worth i've got a figure and i can see what the equivalent is and it's mine which is a very different mindset to um so so you were you were talking about in the meetings where people bring food and if somebody goes to a table and and it gets a plate and piles it so he can't get anything more on the plate he'll get looks from other people and he won't and and if he started filling his pockets as well somebody would say something whereas if it's if it's when it's converted to money and a token it's then not connected with any sort of emotional worth somehow it seems okay to collect it and hoard it and gather more it's a very different mindset so there's some there's there's some really interesting um um understandings i think from the from the bushman and there's a lovely another another one this is my this is my favorite subject and so do tell me when i'm boring otherwise i'll just carry on um there's a lovely story of say east meets west it's not east meets west but it's that sort of thing where an anthropologist fell foul of the sort of the the innate rules that he didn't understand um for this you know this isn't this is an extract from a book by a previous an earlier anthropologist where he he falls foul of the of the unwritten rules it's a lovely story and he should have known really but he didn't it's part of his anthropology he should have really understood what he was doing but it didn't he had to explain to him in simple words and they have this thing they call it cursing the meat which it's a way of as he as the previous writer um sus james susman um course calls it fiercely egalitarian so they are fiercely egalitarian they will actually um rather than just expect it they will actually enforce it which is which is unusual and i'm not sure you'd get away with that today and in our current culture it's it's sort of counterintuitive what does um many parallels in that um like recently a um like taiwan has a trade agreement with new zealand but within their trade agreement there's a parallel chapter between the maori people and the indigenous people here because uh all of the austral nation and polynesian culture they came out from taiwan so taiwan is likely originating place for them for the language and um the the cultures and in taiwan we have more than a dozen nations of indigenous people some still pretty much around and they have a like separate diplomatic track with the maori people so recently just a bunch of maori people came and to kind of visit their their heritage their their ancestry and i think part of the lure of this is that a lot of the culture you just described is fiercely egalitarian culture um in some nations it's um matriarchical so it's not without its gender biases but uh but with good um environmental um consciousness and the consciousness is uh permeating to everything they do not just uh for the sake of the environment but uh it's part of their part of their identity uh and so and so so all this you know is without the help of quote unquote sustainable development goals or quote unquote social enterprise because that's part of their national identity and so a lot of what we do here in taiwan is just to honor the the nations as they are and also unlock what we do um from a han ethnic very much currency financial trade oriented culture to the ways of living of the still very much living indigenous um people and i think um that is also one of the i think very useful ways to think about it because then these people they also all over polinesia and all the way to the madagascar i think all share similar lifestyles yeah yeah did yeah yeah well still do um and many of them are still like uh re invigorating uh when i came to new zealand i visited three times uh in the past two years many different places they're just revitalizing this because they realize that may be the shortcut uh the because their constitution is the treaty right uh so they have to honor for example the Maori people consider a river have a person who'd so they actually give that river legal person who'd so they can take place in you know board meetings and and things like that and i think all this helps us to answer more more there answer more fight the externalities more yes yes answer more fights the the externalities the negative externalities so that we can all see that we're harming the river which is not a river god like like some shinto belief that it helps to think in shinto beliefs and in maori i mean indigenous questions yeah i'm like i'm i'm i'll throw in a um a curve born into that lot because when you look at the the early migrations actually the ones that where the marries came out of that branch and the later than the native and native american branch they actually caused a huge amount of damage yeah that's what it's our what to do well it's not so much that i think it's because the the the the the tribes that are in that if you look at the megafauna loss in in africa it's far less than anywhere else because what happened that the megafauna and the humans evolved together so the megafauna in africa were aware of how dangerous humans were and they avoided them whereas and when they landed when the then how then humans landed in you know the in in asia and in in america broadly asia and america those two two migrations they found fauna that just didn't understand what humans were and they just well stood there and bang gone that's right and so so the the the the amount of extinctions that we caused in outside of africa is phenomenal yes and these and these are the early these are the early humans that's right this is premarie pre-average these these are pre those aboriginal where the aborigines came from i'm talking about maybe i'm talking about maybe four thousand years ago so it's already pretty late in in the game so to speak it's mostly cultural migration not actual human migration yeah because they because the bushman the calahari on that that sort of central africa stuff um that had taken hundreds of thousands of years to evolve to a state stage where they were in harmony in effect in there was no there was no such thing as an externality because if you didn't you died so there's there's a lot of interesting i think a lot of very interesting lessons and actually probably deeper there's probably interesting lessons to look at the different indigenous communities to see how in balance they are compared compared to the calahari yeah i think i i i've seen this word before it's a it's a pack of icons for the ubuntu operating system uh they just chose the name calahari to to honor the calahari people yeah yeah well i mean ubuntu came out of that culture so i guess it's yeah zulu language yeah yeah yeah and there's a buntu um social movement now as well which is reusing it i think in fact the buntu is a bit the word ubuntu has been been i've i've seen it used by social groups and weren't even aware of the operating system well they've taken a good thing i guess taking it straight from the zulu and appropriated again without being without realizing it's already been used and yeah that's a funny one because i actually helped somebody build a website and i said but you do realize ubuntu has other meanings to a lot of other people you know so they said you're gonna you're gonna lose that on the web if you if you search term is ubuntu because you would just won't be found it's like when sales force try to trademark social enterprise without being aware that it has a meaning in the uk uh and and then and then of course they they graciously gave it back because well there's just no way they're going to win on search engines yeah all right um i i think i i'd have to move on to dinner um sometimes sometimes i think we've got to the point where we're we're now we're at the water table what the water cooler that's right um so you okay was as publishing this video or yeah the video is fine okay that's great yeah it's been good to talk good to talk and ask any questions you want um down the line um because i'm still thinking that this this has a place maybe not so much i mean we could we could do without we could survive without it in the uk you could survive without but i think i still think it has a place somewhere and i'll explore it and see what what comes out of it no i'm sure it does uh i'm just saying well first you are not alone uh doing this there's many different groups of people uh doing this and the good thing about open innovation is that it doesn't have to scale right in in open source um the 99 percent of projects they just push on github and then and then disappeared but but i mean people just pick up and run with it and and that's like it doesn't even need to scale in any of the three dimensions we'll just talk about it's just there all right so that's one comfort that's right that's one comforting thought yeah good all right enjoy take care yeah have a good little time if you if you have if you want to meet up and when you're in london just just give me a shout out now hop on i'm sure i'm i'm still uh finalizing my schedule but i'm a legend yeah and be interesting to hear your your your take on the the scottish experience because i think you're going up there first and then coming down to london that's right that's right you're interesting comparison very interesting comparison okay well cheers then see you next time bye


My question is about death.  So will they be attaining mukti? Last three days I've been immersed in this book, this going into publication and Mahasivaratri day. So book on death, an inside story. Only for those people who shall die, not for immortal people. So I've been, you know, there are things that I've spoken but I've been reading through. And now I'm looking at all the idiotic things that will be said about profound dimensions of life because people will take it out of context and rub it around because there are people who are doing PhD in WhatsApp, you know. So I was just thinking of the various consequences that will arise out of it but it's okay. I will say what I want to say. I've always said, initial part of my life I said it very wrong.  Me also started dressing up nicely. Otherwise I was raw in every way. So most of the talks come from that time which is very raw and direct. Once again I'm getting there, this diplomacy, time for diplomacy is over. Maybe another one year, little more diplomacy, after that we're going to go all out. I didn't know there was such a fan following for that because social realities keep changing but someone has to simply state what is true. Doesn't matter. Most of the beings on this planet who arrived at some profound dimension within themselves, generally they were not even understood in their lifetimes. We don't have such bad luck. They're telling me over one billion people have watched our videos till date. That is sixteen percent of my torget. On your clapping your hands, don't celebrate my failures. So it's... every generation or whenever a realized being came, the really wise ones never opened their mouth.  Some of them were wise enough to clothe it in different ways and try to make it a part of social process. But after some time whatever they said was misinterpreted in a thousand different ways and people twisted and turned it according to their convenience. But today we have an advantage that whatever we say is recorded. People cannot easily misinterpret because we replay. It's not that we've hesitated in the past but we've avoided saying a few things sometimes except in closed circles. But I feel with one billion people watching our videos, now the planet is a closed circle. In my hearts and minds they were already closed but now even their hearts and minds also I'm close to them. So we cannot speak direct hard things only to people who are sitting here. We start speaking to everybody because those who can't digest it, what to do? They have to go to the toilet. So why this mode is, I feel like never before. The world is ready for a direct hit. No need for doing this and that. This overexposure to all kinds of things. Right from early age everybody is exposed to all sorts of things. This has made people a lot more kind of hardcore. So there is no point talking soft stuff to them. So the death book is a very strong statement. Intentionally we've left it without refining the language, without refining the statements just like that as it was said. Because it was said to somebody who was asking a genuine question at that moment, a genuine seeker. As it was spoken to him, now we are speaking to the world like that which is going to cause lots of disturbance. So if you feel Sadhguru has lost his civilized clothing and you want to go, you can go into the forest, I mean. Because this time in the life of this humanity, this time is very important in terms of reach and in terms of exposure. Humanity has never been in this level of reach and exposure. So this is the super over. We need to hit every ball for a six. They may be looking for love, sexuality, they're just trying to buy something on Amazon or they're looking for death and enlightenment with the kind of population that we have become and the level of empowerment that we have reached.  There's only one problem, human being. And the only, the only and only problem with the human being is, he's unconscious and compulsive. Whether you look at technology, you look at politics, you look at religion, you look at industry and business. I'm talking about all the major forces on the planet. All of them are functioning compulsively and unconsciously. So it's very important that teaching also has a shock value. Otherwise, they know how to ignore these things. It's not just for effect, the truth is like that anyway. Truth is shocking. Few human beings have a digestive system to swallow truth and be fine. If you give them the truth, they will freak. Truth about yourself, I'm saying. If you tell them the truth about yourself, they will freak because they've always been taught by the so-called civilization process, the religious processes and other things to be nice. If you blossom into a full-fledged human being, you don't have to be nice. It's just nice, that's all. So you must brace yourself up because there are many, many processes happening. We've set fire in many places, which will light up slowly. And also, unfortunately, we also have to tackle not just human beings, we have to tackle the environment. I wish that was not there for us, but that is a massive problem to a point where people are referring to me as a tree planter, which I don't like. So now with this trillion-tree campaign, I'll... I'll become a designated tree planter. So even to extricate myself from that, I need to state spiritual aspects little more strongly. Otherwise, people will think I'm a tree planter. Tree planter is not a bad profession. My business is to make people flower, not to plant trees.  That also can happen, you know. A very enthusiastic salesperson saw a new development coming up in Nashville area in Tennessee. So he went and knocked on a door, a lady came and opened the door, he just slipped in and took out a bag and took out a whole lot of horse dung and threw it all over the new carpet. And he said, See, I have a new, a really fantastic vacuum cleaner. Without leaving a trace of anything, not a... not a smear, not a little bit of smell, everything it cleans and makes your carpet smell good. Just like that, in five minutes I will do it.  Then the lady said, Wait, let me go and get some tomato ketchup because the house is new, we still don't have electricity.  So because of this tomato ketchup, lot of dung is being eaten in the world. Because of a little ketchup, you're not able to make out what is dung and what is a real snack. So we will take off the tomato ketchup, that's all I'm saying. Dung is dung. So about your grandmother, we can do something for her if she's inclined, if she's initiated, definitely. But there are many dimensions to this. In a brief meeting like this, I don't want to open this up. And also, why should I affect the death book sales? Because still now I never bothered how many books are selling, where the hell it's going. But now I've been sitting with the publishers for last two, three days. And as I'm, you know, different subjects and various questions I'm trying to handle, but their eye is always on how many books we'll sell in Mahashivratri. So I don't want to disappoint them. Because how many books sell won't make a difference to me, but it'll make a big difference to them. So you must buy the first copy. It's not about the book, it's just that aspects like this, we must sit down in a different way, not like this. I mean, a evening fooling around mode right now. So, we need to be in a different way to address that question.


Hi, my name is H.N. Murphy. I'm a hospital corpsman on the U.S. NS Comfort. I assist nutrition services, so I am one of the corpsmen assisting the chefs, feeding the patients, along with feeding the crew, but my primary goal is to feed the patients when they come on board. Okay, so NFSA is basically a food service attendant. What they do is that we're a mixed basket, we're all different rates. A lot of us are corpsmen, and we're assisting the C.S.'s or the chefs to distribute food, help on the line, clean the galley. We do nutrition specialty in the back there, and my nutrition specialists are C.S.'s. And so we make foods that are for people that need heart and healthy, or a renal diet or fluids only, so wake with chicken broth and tea, and we have to do that in order to make sure the patients can actually get better. Because if we're feeding these patients food that doesn't fit the diet that they need, they're not actually getting better. I'm excited to be here because we're back in New York, and I love New York, I'm from New York. I'm also just really excited to be here because I love the medical field, I love helping people. The whole reason I joined the military, the Navy, as a corpsman, was to help people. So doing a mission like this, we're helping not only my state and my people, but we're helping the United States as a whole because we're trying to effectively get rid of the coronavirus. I was an EMT before, and I figured as a corpsman, not only that I have so many friends in the Marine Corps, I actually wanted to be a Marine first, I went to the Marine Corps Recruiting Office to be a corpsman, and they're like, you're in the wrong office, dude. I love helping people. I've always found so much joy in helping make people feel better. Even just through smiles, dumb stuff like that, it really brings my life so much joy. So as a corpsman, me getting to help people and be here and be part of a team that's here to fix something as critical as this going on, it makes me feel really good.


This video is to show you how to use this public policy in the U.S. subject guide when you have a social or public policy issue that you would like to investigate. Once you've watched this video on this Start Here page, the other important things here are one, my contact information, and two, if you are in more of a hurry, the information in the Need Help box. Don't waste your time and get frustrated. Ask for help. The background page contains tips on what info to try to gather first about your policy, as well as three boxes, general information, published analysis, and more information with links and directions in order to help you delve deeper into your policy. There are two tabs about finding law. The statutory law tab, statutory law, are laws passed by the United States House and Senate or by the Ohio Legislature. On this page, there is a video tutorial about how to locate the full text of law when you have a public law number, and then there are boxes with links to guide you through finding reforms and changes over time, as well as how to locate the law as it exists today. And finally, the last box on this page leads you to the databases that can help you locate the state laws. The page on regulatory law follows the same format with a video to start and then boxes down the right to help you locate federal regulations and state regulations and administrative law. The page called CAPTA Example shows examples under each category of what I retrieved when I searched using this guide for information about the public policy called the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act. And then finally, the last page in this guide, Contact a Legislator, is there to help you identify and get the contact information for your elected officials so that you can tell them what you think about the public policy you just investigated.