We're recording. Hello, everyone. Welcome to this meeting of the community preservation at committee on November 10th. 2022. I'm calling the meeting to order at 602 p.m. pursuant to the decision on the town of Amherst, which is permitted by the state, we are meeting remotely. I'm going to call on people now so that we all know that you can hear others and that you can be heard so when I call on your name just please acknowledge your presence. David Williams. Yes. Okay. Hello. Andy McDougal. President. Robin Gordon. I was. I see the name beneath you. Matt, which says Sean mangana on the screen, but Matt Kane. Hi, Sam. It says Matt Kane on my screen. No, it does. For your name just below you. Michelle lobby. As in. Katie. So. I present. And. I'm not. I don't believe that Tim is here as of yet. I can hear everyone. It looks like everyone can hear me as well. I'd like to welcome. One member back to the committee, Robin. We're glad to hear have you back from the historical commission. And we have two new members. Matt came from the recreation commission. Sarah step down. Matt's joined us. Great to have you and Michelle lobby from the conservation commission. Welcome. We're going to have a number of presenters here this evening. And I'm uncertain if there's going to be public comment interest or not. We've allocated a short time period, 15 minutes. If we run out of time. That is to say, I don't want to delay presenters when their time arrives. So if for some reason we were to run into any overtime, I would probably truncate. Comment and move to presentations and then continue thereafter. So. I don't see a lot of folks in the audience. So I think we're doing well from time period. So I'm going to stick with the standard agenda and our first item on the, excuse me. The first thing we need to do is to identify someone to take minutes. And Andy was kind enough to do it at our August meeting. I had done it in the meeting in June, but we do need a member to take minutes and I'd like to indicate that they're the sessions are recorded and access to those recordings is made available to all members. I use them when I do minutes. And we also have a template for the minutes that can be utilized as a starting point. So with that being said, is there anyone who would be interested to volunteer at this time to take minutes for this meeting? I'm happy to do it, Sam. Wonderful. Thank you, Katie. So Katie will take the minutes and each meeting for those who are new, we have to have a member identified to take the minutes. We alternate essentially. Great. So the first order. On the agenda is to approve approve any outstanding minutes. Now we have only one set of minutes that were updated and placed in the agenda, which is the minutes from our August 25th. Meeting. And I know that a number of. Individuals communicated minor edits to Andy directly. So I'd like to open up the discussion if anyone has any further edits to the updated minutes that they wish to request. Silence is good. It looks like the minutes as updated by Andy seem fine. So we'll need a motion to approve the minutes of. The 25th. Would anyone like to make a motion. I'll motion to approve the minutes from August 25th. From August 25th. Second. Second. Who was that Katie. Great. Any further discussion. No. So I'm going to proceed to vote. In order. I'll start. I'll vote. Yes. David. Yes. Andy. I. Is a. One way of doing it. It probably works better than yes. Robin. I've seen. Robin abstains, Matt. Yes. Michelle. I have it. I read the minutes. Am I allowed to vote? You're allowed to vote. Okay. I. Katie. I. And I'm welcome to Tim. I can see you. I don't know if you can hear us or not. Tim. I'm not sure if you're muted or not. You seem to be. Okay. We're voting. Sorry about that. I'm sorry. I said I had to update and it just took forever. So sorry about that. We're in process of approving voting on the minutes from August 25th. We've had seven members vote and you're the eighth. Do you wish to vote on approving of the minutes from. As updated from August 25th. Yes. I approve them. Okay. So the vote, if I'm not mistaken, is eight to zero. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and see if we can. Open up to public comment. Although we have a tight time frame. We're looking to start our presentations. And about seven or eight minutes here. I see a number of attendees. If you're in the audience and not a presenter and you have any comment to make. Please raise your hand. Okay. I'm not seeing any hands raised either. So. I think we're good in that regard. So shall I bring in, it looks like Carol Lewis is here for the first presentation. Yeah, in a minute. You know, I assume they're planning. I assume they're planning on a six 15. I want to give them a minute. A little bit of a heads up. I see that we're also joined on screen. Paulie Drake and I see David. And again, if the men, since we have new members, I'd like for the committee members. To say their name and indicate which committee. Or which method they're associated with. I'm Sam McLeod. I'm the chair. I'm an at-large member. David. I'm David W. Williams. I am representing. The house and Amherst house. Andy. Yeah. Andy McDougall here for the planning board. Robin. Robin Fordham. I'm here for the historical commission. Matt. I'm Matt Cain. I'm here for the recreation commission. And this is my first meeting. Michelle. Michelle Abbey with the conservation commission. Also my first meeting. Katie. I'm an at-large member. Welcome, Matt and Michelle. And welcome to the planning board. I'm an at-large member. Welcome, Matt and Michelle. And welcome back, Robin. Tim. Same. I am a. At-large. Okay. So we're, we're running fine, time-wise. We would be glad to welcome the presenters to start in advance. I think we have a little bit of time. I think we have a little bit of time. I wish we have a. Six 15 times scheduled for the. Amherst affordable housing trust. Funding for affordable housing development. Carol Lewis, Carol. Can, can she hear us? I assume. Can we welcome Carol into the meeting to see if she's ready to come in? I'm Carol. I, I'm one of two. Amherst municipal housing trust co-chairs. I actually have the presentation to me, but I would love it if my other co-chair, should she be as an attendee? We're allowed in the room in case there are questions that she might want to answer. That's Erica. Pay a day. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So I. Thank you. And thanks for the opportunity to present what we have to say. You've all, I presume, you know, you've all had things to read already and answers to questions. So what I want to say is. I don't think it's a question for any of us in Amherst that Amherst, like so many other places needs more affordable housing. So the first thing I want to urge you to do. As you make the difficult decisions you have before you is to report community housing to the fullest extent you possibly can. The Donahue Institute's 2022 housing study found that Hampshire County currently needs 1500 rental units below $1,000 a month to meet the housing need. It also reports that 54% of Hampshire County renters are housing cost burdened. Home ownership is doing no better. As many of you may know, there's a number of homes in Amherst. Many who would like to cannot buy homes in Amherst, the school population is falling. And in Massachusetts, the home ownership rate for people of color at 35% is only about half of the rate, 68% for people for white people. And it's home ownership that contribute the most to reducing a wealth gap between Amherst's BIPOC and white residents. And it's not just about housing. It's about the needs that can hold CPA funds without first identifying a specific project. The housing trust is in a unique position in addressing this housing situation. You do your funding work annually for which we are most grateful. But we meet monthly. And could meet more often should we choose to. And so we can meet needs that cannot be anticipated a year in advance. And so when a project comes up short, given something like unexpected price increases, we can help fill the gap. Witness East, the East Gables project at 132 North Hampton Road. When a pandemic hits, we can set up a program of emergency rental assistance. And we did in the COVID pandemic. When a property the town owns has potential as a housing site, but needs pre development work to determine the feasibility. We can fund that work. As we did in East street and are doing on strong street. Because there are fewer sources that can be used to fund home ownership projects. We can also significantly contribute to the funding of those projects. Projects essential. As I said before to Amherst efforts. To reduce the wealth gap between our white and BIPOC populations. And when a promising property comes up for sale. And must be acquired promptly to retain the possibility of affordable housing development. We can help in that acquisition. As we did with the belcher town road property. And I have an important sidebar here. Amherst is many things, but one of them that is not often stated is that it is a fixed and finite land area. Much of that land cannot be used for housing at all because it is protected farmland or open space. Because it is wet land or protected habitat. So missing an opportunity to acquire land that has an affordable housing potential. Is not easily remedied. The trust can do the things that I've just mentioned. As well as others. How we can, or however we can only do it if we have money in our accounts. The funds we have at present approximately $610,000 that are unencumbered. That are unencumbered. That are unencumbered. That are unencumbered. May be fairly quickly exhausted by projects already in the pipeline. This would render us unable to step in early to add to that pipeline. By doing something that needs to be done on a short timeline. Something unanticipated in time for CA proposal. CPA proposals. Something we have not even thought of yet. I think our goal is to build a affordable housing in Amherst. I think the things that have been submitted have spelled out more specific than this, but. This is what I wanted to say to you tonight. And so open to questions and also. If my partner. Erica has something to add. Please do. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Carol, for. Welcome to both you and Erica. John has been a familiar face for us through the years. We miss his presence, but we welcome your presence. Like to open the floor for questions or comments from committee members. I heard a comment started from David. I don't know if you. Yes. Hi, David. Thanks so much, Carl for sharing the information with us. A question. I just want to be sure I have this written correctly. You gave. I made a statement about 85%. Homeowners and 68%. At the beginning, I don't know whether you were saying. The 68% was. Homeowners of color or what what we're. In the very beginning. I said 85%. I said the wrong number at 35% of home ownership is the people of color. And almost twice that 68% is white people. If I said 85%, I thank you very much for correcting me. No, that's what I heard. I'm not going to say. All right. All right. Thanks so much. I believe Matt had his hand up next. So I'll call on you, Matt. Okay. So just, yeah. Carol did say it correctly. 35% of BIPOC people are homeowners in Massachusetts. But my question is sort of a sort of a general questions. I'm kind of new to this. And just the way I think about things. You say that you have a target of. 250 new affordable housing units in Amherst. You also mentioned 1500 in Hampshire County. According to the Donahue Institute. Sort of what sort of timeframe do you anticipate having those be built over? Is that kind of a 20 year objective and sort of the same question really is how many per year on average? Obviously it's not the same every year, but how many over a say a five year period would you hope to be getting built? I don't really mean to be flipped, but kind of not enough. The 250 target started out as 225, I think, and it was part of a five year strategic plan. That five years has ended and we have certainly not built that many units. I don't actually have account. The proposals that are coming up to you next are going to increase our numbers significantly when they're completed. But it's kind of, it's, I can't think of what is a good analogy, but when there's an opportunity, the thing is to grab it because you don't know when there's going to be another one. And so production has been spotty. The project at the East Gables project at 132 North Hampton Road took years to get to the point where they could even break ground. And most projects are like that. It took Valley CDC years to even find a property that they could buy to make it conceivable to do the project and wanted to do there. So there are so many things that have to come together. I don't, I mean, we would like to have done 225 to 250 houses in that five years. We didn't. So maybe the next five years has the same, the same goal, but it's, it's so spotty. I don't, I'm sorry. I'm not having a very good answer. Okay. No, that's actually good. You said a five year timeframe. Sort of a related question is, so if you requested 500,000, like per year, I guess is what you're hoping for. How many, how many affordable housing units with that 500,000, you anticipate achieving? Is it like you get for 500,000 you get. I don't know how many 10 20. Well, for one thing, every dollar that the housing trust puts into a project is heavily leveraged. We are never the only lender. We can't afford, we don't have enough money to be for one thing. And so what we do is to, like I said, we don't have enough money to be for one thing. We don't have any redevelopment work, funding gap work. And so it depends a lot on what projects are out there in the next few years. If the two projects that are about to be discussed here. Go through, there will be another 70. Apartments of which. I forget exactly how many will be affordable and they will be 30 affordable. That will be a big increase in a short time and that's why there's so much funding being asked of you all right now, because there have been a number of opportunities that have materialized in this period of time for which we're incredibly grateful we need them all. But what will happen next. I don't know. So as much as we can, we work to make sure that every dollar is heavily leveraged. We don't, we're not doing anything where we're the only funder. Always whatever the town puts in is maybe I don't, if I say a number, it will be wrong. I don't know what it's not very much money per unit compared to the overall cost of any unit that gets built. I'm sorry. I feel like I'm being indirect, but I just don't have a more, I don't have a better answer, Matt. I'm sorry. I have a question. I'm. I see Andy.  It was before me. Actually, Tim, if you wanted to jump in first. Excuse me. Would you like to proceed? Well, thank you. Maybe we have the same question. My question, Carl, is my recollection when I read the materials that we submitted to us was that you said, or your organization said that if there are limited fund funds funding funds available that we should prioritize giving or awarding or allocating funds to the two projects online before we allocate the 500,000 to you. And that's my question do you still feel that's true. I think I would stand by the answer and when the questions came after the initial. The initial submission what what we said in that case was, please fund all of it. I understand you may not be able to fund it fully, but it would I think it would be a mistake to fund us to not to fund us at all. You don't fund us at the amount that we have asked that we will not be surprised, but we would hate to see us get nothing because I believe that it might limit some of the possibilities to create a an ongoing pipeline that we that we sorely need here. So, I, I don't remember actually saying quite what you're describing but I, but what frankly I didn't pull it up but that's my recollection I just wanted to see what your answer to that was so thank you. Andy. Thanks Sam and thanks for the presentation Carol. My question was, I did have one that was kind of similar to yours Tim, which, which was, you know, is there. Yeah, like, would, would there be a minimum that you would be willing to take but since you've addressed that. I guess there are three projects for me right up looks like three projects that are that we've recently recently purchased the land for. Do you think with the money you're asking for be primarily used to supplement those three or to continue to add properties to the pipeline and then just I guess kind of strategically. Is there a backlog that you know you're worried about if we develop, we continue to purchase properties but haven't haven't developed them. Is that the most effective use of our resources. Yeah, so the three properties I'm just wondering, you know, in the past it's helped the property came up you could just go and buy it right away. Would it be, would it be beneficial if we actually bought a fourth or a fifth or six property with this money. Or would the, would it be more beneficial for us to throw that into the, to the full completion of each of these that are in your application. That makes sense. I believe I understand the question of very understand you're saying should we maybe we should use this money to just put it on the projects that are already there. Maybe we should use this money to try to create possibilities for more projects which one is more important. Is that just a better way of putting tonight did yeah. The answer I, the answer is it depends. It seems to me that trying to make those kinds of decisions in generalities without the specific situations in front of us doesn't work very well. So if we have a choice between a project that's almost built or something and somehow it really needs something in order to not collapse. That's really important. But so is getting getting other things to be in the pipeline. Part of the thing is I it's, it seems to me very, very difficult to make these kinds of determinations globally in advance of the actual situation in front of you that you need to deal with. So I don't have an overall answer I really think it depends on what the specific possibilities confronting us at any particular time are. I hope that's not a, I hope that's an acceptable answer. It seems to me the truth. Sam is he did so much as his hand up enough. If you're if you're finished with that question. I probably am I wasn't sure if they wanted to comment on that as well. Dave Zomek everyone I see your hands up. You have a comment. If it would be appropriate. And Carol was okay with me jumping in here. Yeah, I think Carol has kind of outlined the conundrum that we're always in right that that, you know, we, we want to support projects that are currently on the tarmac, and you're going to hear from them I see them in the attendees list and we're going to talk about two really exciting important projects one in North Amherst and one in the East Amherst village. But I also, you know, so I think, I think you're going this group, you're going to grapple with, you know, a number of requests this, this, this session that far exceeds the available amount of funding. Right, I think we're in the roughly seven to $8 million range and we have about $1.8 million available, there's always the borrowing piece I'm sure that Sean and Holly and and Sonya are going to guide us through that process and, and I think staff my staff is available to come back in I heard some questions earlier that the committee was asking about how many units have been produced and, and how many are we looking at in the future and you know I could I'd be happy to have my staff member Nate Maloy work up some of that information but I think Carol is kind of outlined, you know this conundrum we're in which is, you know, do we fund projects that are currently ready and, and have other funding have already leveraged other funding. I think, in my mind, that is crucial that we, we take a look at the projects that Valley CDC and wayfinders are going to bring before us, and really look at those with a critical eye and say what is a realistic amount of funding that the town can provide for them, whether it's CPA funds that you are allocating are looking at we're recommending to the town council this round, or whether it's funds that are already as Carol indicated there. The town just has about $600,000 in their, in their coffers, the town also has some funds available for affordable housing and I think we need to look at those, all in, in, in, in a group, if you will, so I think there's some decisions to be made. I guess what I would say about future projects is we're also in an unprecedented time as we all know with costs rising astronomically so I think we'll hear that from wayfinders will hear that from Valley CDC. So, we've got to be realistic about how many units we can, we can leverage how many units we can support. It's going to take years, this is not something that we are going to dig our way out of in three years or five years this is going to be an ongoing process for the next 15 to 20 years so I think we need to look at a long horizon for building units, it does take years, every community. It takes years to build affordable housing. So anyway, I'll stop there but staff is here willing to help you and willing, willing to, to provide you with more data as you need it. And that actually, oh, can I just add a quick following I'm sorry to him. Yeah, we're getting tight on schedule for the next presentation, but if you can be quite quick. Yeah, and it's so just a quick point. You actually hit on one of my concerns, Dave, which with construction costs rising. Would it make more sense to invest in the construction and development of projects. Then to, you know, have money available to purchase future be a properties for future development so. Thank you Andy, I'd like to remind the committee members that we, we can pose questions to applicants after the presentation will have time to continue if things come to us. Okay, I saw one other hand up, Matt, if you'd like to place it, it's a quick question. We could do so if not, you know, we're ready to move on. Do you still wish to ask your question that I can pose the question offline afterwards. Yeah, just send any additional questions to me and I'll make sure that the presenters get it and get it back to you. I'd like to thank Carol and Erica for presenting and we know it's these projects and the CPA is important to all of our applicants. And so thank you for taking the time and for being clearing your responses. We do have a busy agenda today so I without further discussion I'd like to introduce our or call into the meeting our next presenters, which is the ball lane community homes I believe I see a number of folks in the attendees list I have listed on the application and I do see that she is in the attendee list. Yep. I'm a little slow at this I know takes a little time. Good evening everybody. Hi, Jessica. Thank you for attending. We'll get right to it because we're, we've got a packed agenda. We've read your proposal and started questions and welcome. Thank you. I'm going to share my screen and just do a very quick PowerPoint presentation just to try to answer some of those last questions that you posed as a group. So let me just share my screen and everybody see that. Perfect. Okay, so I don't want to spend too much time on the design because I feel like you've got a good sense but it is a home ownership affordable affordable home ownership project looking to build 30 homes. In 15 structures so looking at duplex design a combination of two and three bedrooms, looking to try to cluster the development and previously developed areas and protecting as much open space as possible. Building designs will be highly efficient small footprints passive solar design and looking to have PV panels on all of the buildings to help bring down some of those operational costs for the homeowners. So first and foremost the program goal is to build affordable first time home buyer opportunities for moderate income households that is the primary goal of this project. Currently there is another set of goals, and a lot of this is driven by our primary subsidy provider, which will be the commonwealth builder program which is out of mass housing.  The home ownership rates for people of colors about half of what it is for white households, and how this translate is is in terms of assets so as a direct a direct result of the home ownership gap, the median value of assets for every $1 of a white household comparable is one cent to a black household and eight cents to a Latin household. The home ownership plays a major major role in the equity gap that we see as a country and there is a national goal to try to raise the percentage of black households to 60% of over the next 20 years right now nationally it's at 43%. So in order to hit that percentage there's going to be 10s of thousands of new homes that need to be built across the country in order to try to reach this goal. So a few of the funding sources for this proposed projects, as I noted earlier the biggest public subsidy providers the commonwealth builder program. They are the only program in the state that provides subsidies for homeownership affordable homeownership developments, all of the other funding sources that are through DHCD and other entities are for rental. So this is the only home ownership program it's only been around for a couple years it's a fairly new program there's a couple of developments that are under construction in the eastern part of the state but this would be the first in the western part of the state. The other two big percentages of funding sources are going to be coming from the sales of the homes are restricted homes in the market homes. And you'll see as a total percentage of the request, the, what we're requesting from CPA is is no more than 5% of the total construction budget kind of hitting on those same comments you were mentioning earlier with the presentation from the trust. In terms of the uses of the funds, recorders of it is going to be going to construction costs so that includes the buildings that includes site design, the PV panels. And so that's where the majority of the funding is needed for this project and again as you noted high construction costs. We've added a bunch of numbers with local builders so we feel like our, our estimates are pretty on point. But this is where we're landing in terms of the uses. I'm one of the committee members in the questions that were sent to me about how did we get to that $75,000 number for CPA. So I just kind of want to walk through these, I know it's a lot of numbers but I kind of want to walk through this chart a little bit. So this is breaking down the costs for the restricted units only so it's own, it's two thirds of the cost so the acquisition we paid $850,000 for the property in August. And then represents two thirds of the cost of the acquisition so that's the same general formula that's been applied. Same for hard costs, soft costs it's a little bit more than two thirds because there are some soft costs legal accounting that are very specific to the affordable homes that are not applicable to the market so that's a little bit higher than the two thirds but generally fairly split. That's one thirds of the developer overhead and fee. If we take all of that we're looking at about $10.6 million just for the 20 restricted units. If we subtract out the sales of the restricted units based on our estimates of what we think we can sell these homes for based on the income restrictions, we still have a gap about $6.5 million. But in the $5 million that we're able to request to the Commonwealth builder, Commonwealth builder will provide up to $250,000 per affordable unit as a subsidy so that's where that $5 million number comes from, still gives us a gap of about 1.5. A little bit earlier, there's no other sources for us to go to at the state level to add to add additional subsidies and with the construction costs as high as they are. We need to fill this $1.5 million gap. So we put in a request for 750 because we think that dividing it out by the 20 units that are requested about 37,500 dollars per unit. That's what's been provided in the past. It's less that's what's been provided for other homeownership programs and projects that have occurred in Amherst. So we thought it was a reasonable number, if you said it divided out by a per unit to ask for the 750. We're hoping that Amherst will start thinking about and figuring out a way to release ARPA money so that will be another chunk that we will be looking at there is ARPA money at the state so we're exploring that as well. And then we have also in here $250,000 that we intend to request from the trust. Once we figure out where we land with CPA. So that's how we got to the $750,000 number under the CPA. So the sales pricing. I just again want to do was a question how we got to those numbers. So the pricing varies it's going to depend on the size of the home, the number of bedrooms and the income level and of the household so the range is about $150,000 to $250,000 for the restricted homes. So really our goal is to make sure that that home. Homeowner is not going to be cost burdened so we don't want them to pay more than 30% of their monthly income on housing. So when we're doing our calculations. And I can get into the weeds of this during the Q&A if we need to but just to give you a sense you know we're setting a price of $200,000. So that would be required to put a 3% down payment under the Commonwealth Builders Program. They'll likely need to go to either family members or go to a down payment assistance program to fill a little bit of that gap bring the mortgage amount down. This is very variable depending on what the mortgage amounts are going to be in a couple years when we get this project built so when we modeled this it was 6% it's now at 7%. So as mortgage rates are changing it's making it a little bit more difficult for a homeowner to be able to reach this number. But we are calculating because at the end of the day our bottom line is we don't want this number to get over 30% when we're doing our calculations. And sales so for the restricted homes we are required to do an affordable fair housing marketing plan that would be overseen reviewed and approved by Mass Housing because they are the major subsidy provider under the Commonwealth Builder. They have already engaged CHAPA as their monitoring agent. The monitoring agent will not only just assist on the initial sales of the homes but they will oversee all of the resales moving forward. So they are in it for the long haul they're there for the long game. So there's a lottery process that will occur that will have certain preferences based on Commonwealth Builder requirements and their preferences. Just also wanted to note that in the sample deed writers that I've received from Mass Housing. So there is a preference in there for the number of household members to equal the number of bedrooms plus one. So really this is to prevent a situation where there's somebody's being overhouse where you've got like a single household, buying a three bedroom house now of course that could happen with the market rates we would have no control over that. But in terms of the restricted houses, really trying to make sure that the number of bedroom that we're not that the sales aren't going to somebody who's going to have all this that's not going to be used. And the provisions for the resales which I've detailed quite put a lot of detail into the response of your questions are going to be held in two different deed writers that would be associated with each of the homes. So our timeline of we've purchased the property we're in site design. We were next going to be looking at permitting all the funding requests. If everything goes according to plan and all of the funding falls into place we'd be closing our financing 2024 starting contract construction. And then we're looking to do a phased approach for construction at this point. And we would have all of the sales home sales to qualified buyers done by 2026. So that is it. I'm happy to answer any questions that the committee has. Thank you very much, Jessica. Just committee members were right on time here so if you have questions that you want to ask at this time trees, please try to be direct and as brief as possible, Tim. I can't remember where those PowerPoint slides sent to us in your written response. That would be great. And just remind me because I was taking notes to what was the amount that you had in your slide for the request you're making of the affordable housing trust. $250,000. Okay, and I'll see that when you send the slides. Thanks. Okay, thank you. If you could just send those to me, I will put them in the packet for tonight and send them to everybody. Absolutely. I see a hand up Michelle. Hi. I think it's a lovely plan I'd love to live at that. But my question is about the resource areas on the site. So, there are some significant hydrological connections to wetlands south of the site and that run through the southern part of the site. And the mill river is adjacent somewhat about 800 feet south of the site. But there are hydrological connections to some open space wetlands and then river. You've already stated that you have no intention or are not anticipated to build within the resource areas. So I'm just, I guess, looking for some further intentions about that, given the cost gap that you just described, and that your intention is to build 30 to 32 units but your max can be 35 if you have to fill that cost gap to go to 35 where your house is going to go and like, is there a possibility that you're going to further encroach on that southern riparian edge and into the wetlands. Some implications of that will be increased cost of mitigation for that and permitting in that wetland area, especially resource buffers. So, yeah, I think if we were to add any more units, right now the site slopes, the high point is kind of in the, in the middle of that back edge and then everything kind of slopes down towards the corner of public hill and root 63. So we need to make sure that the water is going that way. So I think if we were to add additional houses, which is not our intent at this point that's not what we've been schematically designing, but it would be, it would actually be more encroached towards the frontage, then it would be towards that riparian area. So we tend to, to develop in that riparian area and in fact there's a wetland along public hill road that is a country ditch that is jurisdictional wetland. So we're also trying to figure out our access to avoid impacting that as well. So we're, we've, we've delineated everything we have an existing conditions plan we know where everything's located it's been provided to our design team so we're trying to we're designing around them, that is not our intent to design in the wetlands. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm assuming that 250,000 per unit from the state is based on building just a standard code. I'm wondering how much of the funding gap is is caused by or resulting from building these two like net zero or close to net zero. Yeah, so I think that the construction costs. I mean, the heating and cooling it's, it's, I don't think it's going to be anything crazy it's not like we're going to do geothermal like we're looking at some of our other projects it's fairly standard high efficiency, heating and cooling systems. If anything would get value engineered out it might be the PV systems that we're carrying right now at around $360,000 total for the project. So what I think if we ended up having to do cut those costs we would probably wire the houses for them, but maybe we wouldn't have the opportunity to do the panels themselves but honestly there's enough. The funding gap is just driven by construction being more expensive than the state budgeted for. Yeah, and I, you know the other piece to to think about is, and I think I put this in the responses, you know at East Gables. We have one building one basement for main walls. Yes we have interior walls but so this is you know you've got 15 different structures so just having 15 different basements labs and 15 different construction, 15 different systems is going to be a higher cost and if it was just one building with a bunch of units in it. Okay, thank you. I have one last question for you. It was asked if their preference can be provided for eligible families that have lived in Amherst for a certain amount of time or in the area and in the response it indicated that the zoning board of appeals can inquire and if the town, if the municipality can prove to the state there's such a need. They can require it to seven. Can you quickly explain how that works because the assumption from my end is that, you know, there certainly are families in need in Amherst might meet the criteria. So that's we intend to permit under the chapter 40 be permitting a comprehensive permit and under the comprehensive permit guidelines that are put out by DHCD. There is a section on local preference and they're very specific about how that local preference works. I've confirmed with mass housing that they follow the same guidelines. So what it is is during the permitting process the zoning board of appeals would make a request for local preference at a certain percentage it cannot be more than 70% it certainly could be less than 70%. So I guess that's kind of what I'm challenging Amherst to think about is, you know, in a community that's majority white with a program goal that's trying to increase black home ownership. I think that percentage I think it, you know, I think if you wanted to put a percentage there that makes sense but what is that number and I think the town has to do a little bit of digging and maybe a little bit of research determine what that number would be. But under the permitting, a condition of the permit would be local preference. And so when we go through our construction financing process. The town would need to submit to mass housing. It's reasoning on why they believe local preferences needed and to have data that backs that up. And then mass housing would review that and approve it and then then we would move forward with the lottery process that would be part of the lottery process it would be very specific within the preferences so we would have certain preferences listed. So local preference would be one of those preferences but we would also need to make sure that they're eligible under the commonwealth builders program under the requirements, and we'd like to see a preference for, for those that meet the disproportionately impacted household under the ARPA definition. So it would be just another preference within that lottery process. If I understand correctly you're indicating that the municipality needs to bring this up at a later point in the process of oh we're being asked for funds at this time. There are other examples where committees might have interest in getting further clarity on that, and or is it kind of a, just a timing it to where one has to depend on the zoning board as opposed to the CPA committee. I mean, I think it's a timing issue but I think if the CPA committee feels strongly about that I would say during the permitting process you would want to put some letter into the ZBA boards and let them know that this is a preference of the CPA committee as well. Thank you. I appreciate you've been very quick and thorough and I'm sorry that it's a bit of a compressed time period for you. Committee members we can ask questions again that we may not have had the opportunity to come to us later. So I'm going to say thank you and move on to the next presentation if we have a question will certainly be in contact with you. I will email the questions I don't need to say until the end of the meeting. I just want to. Okay, you're welcome to stay on. It wouldn't be part of the plan for. Okay, I didn't want to vacate and then have a question then have me not be here so. Okay, very good thank you Sonya I'll send you the presentation now. Thank you. So, Sonya if you can bring in the way finders folks. I don't know the name of Diane Smith here. We're running a few minutes late here but we're going to just carry that time forward, of course. I see Diane in here can you hear us, Diane. I can hear you if you can also invite in Michelle Macadare. And Faith Williams, if you you can find them for purposes with presentation and questions. I think we have we have a PowerPoint we're trying to figure out who's who's driving the PowerPoint. I want to start I understand that we're running late just want to thank you all for asking. We're not going to cut your time short, you're going to get your full a lot of time, even though it's a compressed time period. James Gruber in the Sonya is James Gruber from way finders in the. Yes, I am a show. Here. Okay, hello. Okay, we were. As we couldn't see who was in there. Thank you so much, Diane. But thank you so much. Thank you for inviting us this evening. We're very excited about the property that we're going to be talking about just to kind of, you know, for those who aren't familiar way finders is a comprehensive housing agency. That serves the Hampton, Hampshire and Franklin counties across a spectrum of housing from sheltering the homeless and to the development of affordable and market rate home ownership. As we can see our, our mission is to build and advocate for thriving and equitable region by improving the stability and economic mobility of families and individuals together with developing and managing a wide range of housing to support strong communities. So we have responded to the RFP that was issued by Amherst and I'm going to have Jamie Gruber talk about the the properties that the project that we're we have proposed and they the request that we're making. Jamie. Thank you, Diane. Hello, my name is Jamie Gruber. I'm an associate project manager here at Wayfinders and I'm going to give a brief overview of the development and speak about the proposed buildings. In 2021, the town of Amherst issued an RFP for the redevelopment of the town owned properties, including the former East street school and land on Feltrick town rope. Wayfinders was selected by the town in 2022 to develop both properties into affordable housing. By effectively using the sites, it creates a rare opportunity to add approximately 70 homes units to the current housing stock. There will be workforce and market rate units in addition to 40 low. Both sites will have elevator access to all units, community spaces and amenities, creating visitable and barrier free housing for the residents. The sustainable development will seek passive house certification enterprise green community certification while incorporating solar energy into the design. After construction is complete wayfinders will also manage the properties with on site offices and community that allows for a meaningful presence of management and supportive services. We are currently in the early stages of the design process so some items may change slightly as it progresses. The existing school as you can see here will be redeveloped into approximately 29 reusing the existing school building along with new construction. The architects design is intended to provide the feeling of a new England and has been limited to three stories to fit within the existing neighborhood. There's a welcoming central courtyard and lobby entrance with access to the elevator community room management offices and all of the units. The east street school site will be fully accessible and will also have one sensory unit. The other property located on Belcher Town Road approximately 1500 feet to the south of the east street school site will be a 41 unit building inspired by rural New England architecture. As part of the design process the town of Amherst encourage us to bring the buildings closer to the street to provide a village feel with the parking area tucked behind the building. We're planning three units at the Belcher Town Road site to be fully accessible with one additional sensory unit. I'll now pass it back to Diane to discuss the benefits of the CPA funds. So thank you Jamie. So we've made a request for $1.8 million of CPA support funding support to this project which total development cost is $30,610,000. So the overall ask would be approximately 6% of the entire commitment. The reason that this is so important is that when we're looking for state funding they want a demonstration of local support for affordable housing, which makes this particular development proposal more competitive when we're looking for when we're competing for other funding and tax credits. You know, clearly this would increase the stock of affordable housing, as was mentioned earlier by the trust, as well as by Valley CDC it's really important for us to be able to be part of that that increase of affordable housing that is so desperately needed in the area. The money that we're proposing the use of the $1.8 million would help us on some of the early stage work for planning and due diligence, but it would stay in the project throughout. So it's not similar to a pre-development loan where that would be repaid. This would stay in the project and help to fill any other gaps that are available or that show up in the property. The way that the state runs their application cycles is that when you have properties that also have a local support, that expedites the funding process. So it makes it more competitive, but it also makes it more that there's more opportunity for additional awards in the future. So if we go through a process of the first time, we have another sort of bite at the apple when there's local support. And we have had quite a bit of success in Amherst. As you know, we've got Butternut Farm and Olympia Oaks already in Amherst. They have been very successful projects. They've been very pleased with our partnership with Amherst. It has been very, very successful and our residents and tenants are very happy where they are. We'd like to continue with that relationship. So that's the reason for the request and how we would use those funds should you decide to move forward with our request. We'd be happy to answer any questions. Thank you for the presentation. I'd like to open the floor to committee members to ask any follow up questions. Matt, I see that you have your hand up. Okay. Yes, thank you, Diane and my question is why. So Amherst is providing the land for both the Belch Town Road and the East Street School site. Why is that not considered a local contribution? It is, but they also want to see a financial contribution. Okay, couldn't we just, you purchase those properties and we donate the money back. We've already signed an agreement. Okay, but I mean the value of those is significant. The value of those like that we paid already 700,000 for Belch Town Road and the East Street properties currently assessed at $2 million. We can make an effort to propose that. I would say with our experience with DHCD is that that cash investment has meaning in the competitive process. I agree. I see, do you have a follow up Matt? If the development agreement had it been structured differently as I would have made a difference? Had it been structured where we purchased the property or that the town provided us the funds to purchase the property? Is that the question? Yes. I suppose if it were considered a cash investment, I suppose it could have been. Yes, it would have been. Okay, even if the town is the owner? Well, the town wouldn't be the owner at that point. So we're doing a 90. No, I mean, if the town provided you $2 million to purchase the East Street school from the town. But there's laws and rules about disposing of public property. The agreement's already been completed, is that correct? Okay. Yeah, it might be water under the bridge. Andy. I see your hands, Sean. Andy McDougal. Sam, my response is specifically in response to Matt's.  Sure. John Mangano, town finance director. And Matt, you may be aware of this. And Dave, I don't know where you are, if you're still on the call. So we did a request for proposals when we sold the properties. So we advertised it and we received multiple proposals. And there was a review committee that evaluated all those proposals. And I think at that time they knew that it was, it was part of the proposal that there might be additional funds needed down the road. So it's not, it's not a surprise necessarily to the town. But I'm not saying, I'm not saying that I'm just saying, we already made a contribution. Why doesn't the state consider that? I agree with you. I feel like that should be part of the value totally. Yeah. Thank you, Sean, for providing that, that information. Andy. Yeah, thanks, Sam. And thanks for the presentation. My question, you know, 1.8 million, which is close to the total funds we have. If we couldn't, if we couldn't provide all that. Is there a way that you would want to split this maybe between the properties? And if so, how might you prioritize that? So we could perhaps think of a smaller number of need be. The show. You've been managing the budget. Yeah, I know. And so we're developing it as 1. Projects. So when we come into the zoning board of appeals for the 40 B permit, it's going to come in as one development, even though it's two sites. So the department of housing is going to want to see this as one budget. So a smaller amount would just mean less for people for all projects. Okay. Okay, thanks. Yeah, Tim. Yes, I was looking at your sources of funding. And I did not see any request of the municipal housing trust. Am I misreading that? Or is, are you not requesting any funds from them? We were not thinking of it, but. If it's a source and we don't get the full amount. From the CPA, we are going to have to find money to fill the gap on my sources and uses. We have exceeded guidelines from the department of housing. So on a lot of these, we have exceeded the limits and, you know, DHCD could say, you got to bring it down to our guidelines and then we'd even have a bigger gap. Okay, thank you. Is this a new question? Yes, I have a sec. I have a separate question. And sort of a follow up directly to what was just said, how much of the, the cost is driven by. How do you define this to passive house standard versus something like net zero or near net zero? The passive house, I would say is close to, you know, passive house, the solar. It's in excess of 1.5 million. Okay, so that is significant. It is significant. Would you consider changing that to bring the cost of the project to passive house standard? We may have to. It's just the reality. Right. Keep everything, you know, especially the solar. Yeah. Or you could just. Right. I have a quick question and I see that Dave's own Mac has his hands up as well. And I certainly want to get the Dave. Dave is yours. An extended discussion and or is it a quick comment?  My question for whichever of you wish to answer it may be Michelle. It may be Diane. The town is donating or has an arrangement with a land for the project. And I saw that it's a 99 year lease. I'm uncertain. What transpires in year 100. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Under the current. Proposal. And it may be that you don't know as well. But. I guess I could ask the question this way. Under the current proposal does wayfinders own the land. In year 100. The ground lease and the land development agreement is actually silent. It's a lease that land would remain with Amherst, although the building is being constructed. With the costs all associated by. Wayfinders. So is it reasonable to assume that in that. Long distant future that there'd be a need for some form of renegotiate. There. Either that or an extent another 99 year. I, I bring this up having occasionally been intrigued at the. Panama canal having a 99 year lease, which did come up and Hong Kong as well. 99 year timeframe and those in the long term, there could be interest for Amherst residents. Thank you for answering. David. You're on music. Sure. I just wanted to add a few things around the edges. So, you know, I think Matt's line of questioning. Is interesting. I think we all wayfinders as well as the town. Share a bit of. I don't know if frustration may be too, too strong or word, but how the state values local contribution. Does create some, some, some challenges for us. I think if you look at, and we are partners on this project, I mean, really it was, it was the town of Amherst working with the trust that went out proactively purchased the land on Belcher town road with the express purpose of pairing that with the land that we already owned and have owned for decades, the street school. I think Matt, I might not have heard you correctly, but I think you were you looking at the assessors records for East, for the East street school, did you reference $2 million? Correct. I think that is probably not correct. I can't imagine that being on the fair market value really of $2 million. However, I think if you combine the East street value and the Belcher town road value, it certainly is a million plus. We, you know, in house, we probably consider it about half a million or so for East street. And then we paid about 730, I believe, or Belcher town road. Correct. They'll call it, you know, rounded out in this, in this market to 1.5, 1.6. So there is some frustration on our part that the state doesn't consider that it's not considered a cash value contribution to the wayfinders project. So setting that all aside, you know, we are partners with, with, with wayfinders on this. We think it's a really good project. Again, I think there's, you all are faced with this, this task, this Herculean task of deciding how much can be allocated per project. I do say that, you know, as much as we, we understand what wayfinders and value on the other project are facing 1.8 million dollars. And Sonya or Sean could correct me on this, but I think that that's the largest ask that the CPA is, has ever been presented with. I don't think we have ever allocated until, until next week. Right. But we've never allocated 1.8 million dollars to any project, whether it be affordable housing or, or other. So it's, it is a large ask, but it is 70 units and it's a project that, you know, we think has, has great merit. So I think this is what you're going to be wrestling with over the weeks and months to come. And again, I think, you know, my staff and I could come back, you know, in a future meeting and, and try to try to work with Sean and Sonya on some of these numbers and, and perhaps get us to, to a point where we can make, or you can make some recommendations on, on these projects. Sam to your question about 99 year leases. They're generally, you know, that's generally considered kind of standard in, in legal ground leases today. And it's kind of considered a, if you will, almost a permanent disposition of the land. So we will all not be here in 99 years, but at some point the town and wayfinders will have to revisit that many decades from now. Thank you. Sean, do you have a quick comment? Yeah, it's actually, it's a very quick question for Diane. And I apologize if you said this, the, if the town was to, or if the committee was to recommend in town approve this request, when would the wayfinders actually need the money? And I ask that because we have a couple of projects that we're paying off now that are coming off the books in two or three years. And I know sometimes these projects, the money isn't actually needed for a couple of years down the road. So just curious the timing of when you'd actually need the funds from the town. The way we were hoping to use those funds is for that early stage due diligence. So that would also mean that we wouldn't necessarily have to take out a pre-development loan, which would add cost because of interest. So the sooner the better we're working with the, you know, with the architects now we're starting some of that work. And if we could use that, that money now, that would be great. If we have to delay, we will, we'll try to figure a way to build our, you know, build in that additional time if we need to wait until funds are available. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Sean and Diane. I have one last question. It was asked to you in writing, which would and could any preference be considered or granted to existing longer-term Emirates residents? The response was no local preference at this time. Well, many municipalities may require local preference. It can be counter to goals of fair housing. Is that, I guess the question is what was the reason for the decision to not consider local preference at this time? Is that a way finders? Or is that a mandate? Or is that a mandate? Or is that a mandate termination? Or is that a mandate from some form of. Regulation related to the housing. Does that make sense? What I'm asking. Yes, it does. And you know, the call is the question, I guess. We're running into issues right now with another one that has been passed. And I'm not sure what the answer is. And it actually has to go to HUD and HUD actually approved it. The zoning part of appeals could. Put it as a condition for a local preference. But in the end, it's really going to be up to HUD. If, if they'll allow it. Okay. I believe I understand what you're saying there. I'd like to remind the committee members that any additional questions, there'll be an opportunity to send them in writing. I'd like to thank all of you for. Your clarity of presentation and your dexterity with fielding questions. And it's been informative to me and others. And I'd like to thank you for your. Application and presentation and time. Thank you for the time and the opportunity to send them in writing. Thank you very much. Thank you. So we've run a little bit late, but we have a fourth presentation, which is the rental subsidy program, phase two. And the applicant. Individual on the application is way laying greenie who we have spoken with. In the past. I don't see her name. In the audience, but I do see Amherst community connections. Sonia, can you bring in Amherst community connections? Right now your microphone is on mute. It's unmuted at present. Can you hear us? Yes. Hello. Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you. The floor is yours. I don't see that. We have a presentation scheduled after you. And thank you for patiently waiting while the other. Presentations and questions occurred. So the floor is yours. Thank you so much for having me here. This is our second time asking for funding for this. Rental subsidy program. And because the phase two is on mute, I don't see that we have a presentation scheduled after you. And thank you for patiently waiting while the other. I don't see that we have a presentation scheduled after you. Because the phase one. Went so successfully. And the statistics that we collected. Based on the 17 families. And a hundred percent of them after they graduated from our program. They remain housed. No family became homeless. So that's a big thing. Because when one becomes homeless. They have to show us spiraling downward conditions. And the reason that we are able to do it is because that incentive of $400. A household a month. Put toward. Your family. And it's not a blank check. They have to show us that they work hard. And they work toward that $400. So what do they have to do in order to show us that they work hard. Number one. They have to show that they have paid their rent for a month. When they are in the program. So the rent receipt is what we look for. So for example, if you want to come and get $400 for November this month. You got to bring your rental receipt for November. That's the first condition. And the second condition is that. You would have to come attend. Weekly meeting. Case manager meeting. There's no substitute. It's the support service. To help you. Hold on to your jobs. To help you apply to the. Many, many benefit programs that you are entitled to. Such as food stamp. Such as other subsidized housing. Such as fuel assistance. Such as the. Discounted utility. Such as a discounted. Internet service. All those things I think I described to you. The value of those 10 different programs. We estimated it's between. $27,000 and $42,000. So by us working with them month after month. We are helping their family accessing those public benefits program. In that quantity that I described. So. Case management is the key. To stabilizing these families. Housing. Housing. And that $400. Once they get it. They pay other expenses. Whether it's medication they need. Whether it's extra serving or green vegetables on the table. They spend it. They see fit. But there are conditions. So at the end of the day, the 17 families. Half of them. Half of them are families. We support them on the average of 15 months. For individuals. No children. In the family. So the average cost. Per applicant. On the program. It's about $6,000 for families. And for individuals. It's $3,000. Now I want to give you a number to compare. When family are behind on rent. They could get. Up to $18,000 during the pandemic. Of raft money. In order to pay their back rent. But that money from raft. No string attached. And oftentimes people they go back. To all rent. Landlord money. And in our program. They don't do that. They use the money they get. To pay expenses. But they have to save the money to pay their rent first. So because of that very successful program. And the fact everybody stayed housed. And a hundred percent of them were working. They work hard. In order to make the rent payment. So we have the ambition. I really appreciate that. The committee is working hard to get. Affordable housing to be built. And I'm just so heartened to hear. That. Way fighters is hoping to build 71 units. At the price tag of $1.8 million. Application. Hoping to get from the town. That's very excellent. But the families today. When they are paying rent. Month after month. They cannot wait until the 71 units. Are built for them to get into. Now they are paying. Between. 50% to 90% of the income. To a rent. That's our statistics. That's our statistics. So to wrap this up. Actually this program. By you giving us. The money to pay for the subsidy.  Behind it to them. But we have to go after. Another huge grant. Which is CDBG. To provide the support service. And without a support service. The rental subsidy simply doesn't work. Money. It doesn't work. The rental subsidy simply doesn't work. Money. It's a for short term solution. But if you money. Plus support service. That's a long term. Solution. So the. Experience we have had. Based on the phase one. We want to ask for. Money to support 12 families. Instead of six families. And the consideration has to do with the fact. We have to hire case workers to do management. Of these 12 household. And the job market is tight. I cannot hire case workers. If I only give them. Half time position. So in order to make it work. I have to go raise funds. To hire a full time worker. To provide the service. So economy of scale. Really dictates me to request. For 12 families. But besides that. There are many families in Amherst. This is a program just for Emily. For families in Amherst. Doesn't benefit any other. Towns at all. It's families here in Amherst. You are supporting. So we have four immigrant families. They are in the 17. You know household. One of them is trying to buy a house today. And the reason they could do is. Both parents work hard. As custodians. And they came here. Four years ago. Look at their hard work. In our case management support. In the $400 a month. For 15 months. Today the family is thriving. And they are looking to buy a house in Amherst. So with the. Questions you might have. After I submitted our. Response to your. Eight questions. I welcome additional questions that you might have for me. Thank you very much. It's always. Good to hear from you and your clarity. And. Passion. How do you say your last name. I'm sitting here thinking McLeod. Well, it's pronounced many different ways for different people. But it's properly pronounced McLeod. McLeod. Yes. Well, we have a board member. His last name. Spill a bit differently, but it's McLeod. Thank you. Thank you. There's a few less in different places. I'd like to open the floor to committee members to. Ask questions. I see one hand raised. Matt. If you'd like to ask your question. Hi, way Lynn. I understand the case management model. And I think that's great that you can. Move people from being in a situation where they're not managing to. Where they are managing. My sort of question is if it's, if it's worth. If it's worth so much to people to be able to access the. All of those other funding sources. Why do we also need to provide them $400 a month? And then secondly. Why couldn't we provide them $400 the first month. And like taper that off over the 15 month period. Well, to answer the question you have, Mr. Kane. Those programs that you have to apply. And our general population with that we are working with. They are low income with limited technology. Access. Lack of computer lack of internet connection. And lack know how. The online application. Means. I understand that they need your help to do it. But. Once you explain to them the value that's out there, why don't they just come to you for that? They come to us. To apply to these programs. We help them. But month after month, they have different programs. They have different problems happen. It's not just after you apply to these 10 programs. You are done. So they have different programs. Challenges for example, during the pandemic. We have families. They have no money to pay their rent. So they cannot get the money we provide. And yet. We help them access raft program. And that's something happened during the pandemic. We have money sitting there up to 18,000. You can apply. But we cannot anticipate. What month they are going to be falling behind on their rent. So the continued help. For those months. Help them deal with life challenges. To help them grow strong. It's a wise investment. It's not a one time deal.  Maybe, you know. You are doing well. I'm not a good example. I'm not a good example. I'm not a good example. I'm not a good example. So. I guess. The problem is that. I'm just trying to stretch the money as far as possible. And the second question. I'm sorry. I didn't hear your second question. Like if you could start at $400 a month. And then take that off. That would only require half the amount of funding. And might be able to achieve the same result. Yeah. So. You know, they are paying so much of their income to a rent. Between 50 to 90% of their funds. For rent. So just that $400. Stress is a killer. Kills you. So you're saying you're saying that after 15 months, the families are graduating. So they're no longer needing that's our average. That's our average. Yeah. For individuals, because you are only one person. It takes shorter period of time, eight months. We can get you to find the job. We can get you to find two jobs. We can help you go back to school for training. But for family, they have children. So both parents, or oftentimes it's a single parent household. The mother has to work hard. And we have to help them secure a babysitter. Or find my funding for childcare. And it takes longer to help family. To get through and be able to come out the other side. Thank you. I see Robin. Robin. Yeah, I just wanted to make a quick comment about how challenging those social services programs can be to access and knowing that they are not all that they're. They're awarded at different income levels. There's no. There's not a, there's not consistency year to year with benefits. It's not quite as simple as you applied everything. And you're getting $25,000 a year. So I just wanted to make that comment. Thank you, Robin. I have a question for you. I see this in the. Questions you indicated that the target population for the subsidy program are families and individuals. Although this evening I'm hearing you talk about families. I'm wondering. Of the 12 targeted groups is, is it in fact that you're targeting only families at this time? Or would there be some individuals as well? And how does that typically break out in terms of how many. How many families are in the past? I realize there's limited sample size. Yeah. Well, in the past, we have 17 families in the program. Of which nine are families. And eight. Individuals households. But in terms of the screening process. We target. Families. Individuals living in Amherst. And they have to be rent burden paying more than 50% of the income tour rent. And then the third criteria is that they have to be. At some point. The risk of. Becoming homeless due to rent owed to the landlord. So by the time they come to us, they're already in deep trouble. And we have to help them get back. I have a follow up question. I don't see other hands up. So I'll ask it. Have you. Do you have any experience or awareness as to what has happened. To those in the past who were not accepted into the program. Even though they. Met your criteria. That is to say. I assume you have challenging decisions to make. When applicants. And you have more applicants than you have slots. What type of. Outcomes have you seen if you're even aware for those who have applied. But not been accepted. Okay. Mr. McCloy, maybe I can give you a more general understanding because we do not. Follow those 24 families. But by and large, our agency serves over 600 households a year. And almost a hundred percent of them. They are either extreme low income or have no income. And about half of them. They are people of color. And also. By and large, about half of them. Experience homelessness. Or they are at risk of becoming homeless. So the reason people become homeless. Many reasons, but. You have to pay rent in order to the roof over your head. You might have mental health issues, substance. Substance use disorder you're experiencing. But if you don't have money, we don't have housing. It's that simple. So to answer your question in this come a little way. What happened to them? I can only. Based on our experience working with the families. And I can tell you that's the picture of the families or individuals we cannot help. But I can also share with you. Families were in the program. By and large. They all look so much better. Thank you for answering that. I have a follow up. If anyone else. In your. Your target population you have under. A meaning first rent in Amherst. I believe a few years ago, I asked the question. I'll ask it again. Is the time period that someone has been in Amherst? Is there a minimum time period that somebody should have been renting in Amherst to be eligible for the program of Amherst CPA funds. You know, people don't move to Amherst to get to this program. Get $400 a month. They don't. They are already in Amherst. And they're having such a hard time. So who are these people who will help? They work at the local coffee coffee shops. Black sheep. The works. Bruggers. With. Fire farm. All these places that they work in Amherst, all you mass dining comment, for example. So we don't ask. Why are you moved to Amherst? Is it because we have wonderful Amherst community connections. $100 a month for you. No, they are already in Amherst. And they got into trouble because of various financial struggles. So we reached out to them. But I can assure you. No one ever say they moved to Amherst because we have this subsidy for them. The chance of getting into Amherst. Today we have 28 families and individuals waiting. The time when I wrote to you, it was 24 families. That was six weeks ago. In the past six weeks, we have added four more. Households. On the waiting list. Yeah. Well, thank you for a clear find. Opening the window. In response to my question. I just have a comment. I don't know what the committee will decide in our challenging environment. This year with our funding. But I do have to say that I find you inspiring. In your presentation. And what I hear. You'll note dedication. I can only imagine how. Challenging. The endeavor is. That you're involved in. And I do see the. Just. It makes common sense to me, the value associated with all the wraparound services for those who are challenging. So. Thank you. So much to me. It means so much to me to hear that you can sense my enthusiasm. But my secret is. I have a team of dedicated young people. Every year we attract between 20 to 30. College interns. Each one of them work. 12 hour. A week for the entire year. And they inspire me, they care. So 20 to 30. So this semester right now. We have 13 interns. And each one of them give back to the community. So I'm inspired by them. So I will share with them of your sentiment. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Tim. Yeah, sorry. I thought of one quick question. I was the last year was my first year in the committee. And I don't, you mentioned this was your quote, second time around. Does that mean this is the second request for funding. You received a request previously or were you denied previously? I don't know what the history is. This is phase two. So I'm going to go. We got funded for rental subsidy program. Phase one. And because it's so successful, helping so many families. And yet there are so many of them. Families and individuals are on the waitlist. So we became bold and vicious. We want to help more. So we wrote the quote. Face two. And I love one of your questions. You say one of the questions.  And I think I say to you, well, housing is always a basic human needs. So long we have problem with affordable housing. I'm afraid we might continue to have the need to help families, individuals with their financial struggles. And I wish that we have all the affordable housing. For those who need it. So that we will go out of business. I'm happy. I'm happy. Thank you. Michelle. Yeah, just real quick. Thank you. The other presentations we heard of from today. I have a target community like that's BIPOC. And you mentioned 50% of your family as far as that pretty consistent throughout the years of the program or. It's not necessarily. It sounds like socioeconomic is more the community that you serve. But is that, yeah, is that a pretty consistent. Community for you. Well, if you allow me to tell you. 71% of the families and individuals we see funding. They are from the BIPOC community. And considering in Amherst. We only have about 30%. So people who need help and you support. Unfortunately, the majority are people of color. BIPOC community. They tend to be less endowed with wealth. Or employment, you know. Higher wages. No, they are mostly low income. Working people. Low wage earners. And that's really the sad story. If you are people of color. Because of various back institutional racism or whatnot. You tend not to get good jobs. You tend to be lower and on the lower wage spectrum. And so what can we do to help everybody have equal access to the basics of life. The social service program is really the equalizer. So that's what I'm just so excited to see. And I think it's really important. And I think it's really important. And I think with all the talk criticizing racism in the society. Let's take what we have. And apply it. Get everybody up where we are. You know, trying to address the structural racism. So this is a very concrete way. To really address the social bills. Are there any further questions at this time? I don't see any. I'd like to thank you for your time and presentation. And I'd like to remind community members again, as I have with others that if questions arise that we can send them to. Thank you. Later time. Thank you. Thank you so much, everyone. Appreciate your service to the town and to the residents of Amherst. I know evening is usually you want to go home and watch your dinner. But today you are here. Letting me share with you my enthusiasm. And I used to serve on the select board. I'm so happy we have you serving the town of Amherst. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, so we've run over, but luckily we have. Been able to have all the. Presentations completed. We had a little bit of extra time in this last one. Our next agenda item is review of financials. Son, are you prepared to do so? I'm sure. Did you want to see if there was any questions? Any questions in the audience? Oops. I don't see any. We did have a. Public comment previously. I see four attendees. Does anyone have any. Question or comment. From the audience members, the community attendees. If you have, please raise your hand. I'm not seeing any. So I think we're, we're all set there. So we can move on. I don't see any. We did have a. Comment. Public comment previously. I see four attendees. Does anyone have any. Question or comment. So we can move on and review financials. If you can provide an update. If that makes sense from. Where we were in the summer. And if there's been any more clarity or not in terms of where we are. Thank you. Can you see that on the screen? No. No. Yes. If anyone can't see it, please raise your hand. I think we're, we're okay. Yeah. Okay. So actually, could you enlarge it? That is to say, shrink the area of focus. So the font will appear larger on screen. I'll do my best, but I can't read it. The colors and the. That's a bit better for me anyway. Can other members see this? Okay. They seem to be able to see it. So. Okay. Okay. For those new members on. On the committee this time, I just want to explain that our CPA budget is based on estimates, just like our operating budget. So there's a bit of guesswork that goes along with this each year. Our actual balance that we ended as of June 30th. Of 2022. Was 2.3 million. So we ended with 2.3 million. And we, we estimate what we're going to take in for surcharges. We had an estimate of a million. Coming in for surcharges. And that's a very conservative estimate. We try to keep these. Conservative state match. We have an estimate of 3.5. I mean, 350,000. For an available state. For an available state. We have an estimate of 3.5. I mean, 350,000. For an available FY 23 budget of 3.66. We had appropriations in 23 of 2.346. And then we, we budgeted a reserve of 533,000. That. Gives us an estimated amount that we will end with June 30th fiscal year 23. That will get carried over. To be our beginning balance for fiscal year 24. And again, that's an estimate. So once we close the books, it could be more. We. We are estimating our 1.1 million. Surcharge. And then state match, we estimate it 25% at 275, which gives us the 2.1 million. We have our debt service that we're obligated to pay. For fiscal year 23. We have our debt service that we're obligated to pay. At 443, 460. Which leaves us. A balance of 1.7. Available for fiscal year 24. But I want to point out. That we. Budgeted a reserve of 533,000 for fiscal year 23. If the committee chooses. To release that. Budgeted reserve and use it towards the fiscal year 24 proposals. We can do that. We can do that. We can do that. We can do that. We can do that. We can do that. We can do that. And we have to budget a reserve because once we. We can only use estimated receipts until we, we set a tax rate. Once our tax rate is set. Then we can't use estimated receipts again. We can't come back later on and say, oh, project came up and. We might get a little more money. So we estimate a little more money and. Appropriate from that. We can't do that. So we have this reserve in place that we can appropriate from. So. Did I confuse anybody? So at this point, we have 1.7 million. But if we use that 533, that will get added. Also, I want to point out that way up here, the estimate for state match is at 350 right now. We should be receiving our actuals state match. And it's based on the fiscal year 20. The fiscal year 22 surcharge, what we collected, they base. That's what they base a percent. The amount they pay us. Right now we're expecting 22. 22.35%, but. We just got news that that might be higher. So we should be receiving that before by the end of November. So that might increase our balance a little too. So this is going to evolve. Through the time that we're. Going through this process. So there'll be an update. Periodic updates on this. Today. I understand it. I have a question for you, Sonia. My understanding is that we have a. A challenging. Funding time period in fiscal 24 and perhaps fiscal 25.  In future. As in 2025. Approximately. I'm asking that. In the context of. When the time comes for us to consider. The reserve. Here's our fiscal year 24 total right here. In 25. I believe it's a Jones library. It's a library. It's a library. It's a library. It's a library. It's a library. It's a library. It's a collections room. That might come into play in high school track. Can this be enlarged at all? Is there a way to zoom in or perhaps shrink. Did that enlarge it? That's helping. Whatever you just did is making it easier. Yes. Not very computer savvy. That's exactly. That was quite. Useful. If I read it correctly, it's 543 to 50. And. Next year, fiscal year 25. For 50 the following year. So. But these, these two down here on the project seven started yet. So that might even get pushed out further. So at this point we're anticipating that we're going to have to pay debt service. For them in fiscal year 25. And Sam, this is Sean, the, the trek and field projects. So we're going to have to go through that. We're going to have to go for sure whether the, whether the larger turf. Track reorientation project is going to go through. So it's on here now to be conservative, but we'll have a better idea in January, whether that project is moving forward or not. And if I'm correct, is that dependent upon the. Regional towns. As well as the boosters. Yeah. Amar still has to approve its final share. So it's been brought the council, a final. Request. I think it was about $800,000. And the council wanted to wait to act on it until they got some more information.  The other, sorry for my child. The other towns have to appropriate their portions. So that's the, that's the plan. I don't know. That's the plan. I don't know. I don't know if it's on, I think January 13th. There's a certain amount that has to be raised. And if Amar doesn't come up with this portion, it's unlikely that will be raised. Okay. Andy, I see your hand. Yeah. Thanks. I love, by the way, not only does Sonia know the answer. She has an arrow pointing. To answer the question she anticipated that well. Yeah. So my, my question similar. Is there any sort of. Fiscal guidance that you might offer in terms of what the ratio should be. Of those apportions to the actual. You know, the money we receive in an annual basis. And then maybe. That could be like too loaded of a question.  How they manage this? Is it, is it a similar type of ratio? I guess the long story short is. Any concerns if we take on larger. Projects that we need debt service for. Sean still on. Yeah. So we can certainly look into what other communities are doing. I think, you know, Sony and I did talk about this. The debt is pretty high right now. With the, if the Jones library project moves forward and the track and field project moves forward. And then we can look into what other communities are doing. For at least the next couple of years, you can see it gets up to over 500,000. We do have a couple large ones that will be paid off at that time. So there, there could be capacity to take on more debt. Later on, which is why I asked that question of. Way finders about when they. When the funding would be required because we do have a little bit of a drop off in FY26. And so, but we can look into what other towns do, but it's really, it's up to the committee, but we do have a little bit of a drop off in FY26 projects. New projects you can improve each year. So, you know, we sort of look to the past to see where you've been or a little bit higher than where we've been historically. But it was for some, you know, worthwhile projects. So it's really a conversation for the committee to have every year, but Sonya and I are a little bit worried that the, not worried, but we do think the debt is sort of at a higher point right now. And you should be, you know, consider that as you approve any more borrowings. Thanks. Yeah, sorry. Sorry, this isn't a table. I can't really see the whole thing, but I'm just curious for the reserve release, if you said that's a possibility for perhaps releasing more funding and what proportion of that has been released typically in years past, or if there is a typical proportion released. Proportion of. Are you talking about the sheet or the back to the budget? Or the reserves that we've set aside Sonya, the reserve fund. It's like half a million. So that's sort of, so Sonya, can you explain how, why the reserve fund got set up? Because I think it's a little bit newer, right? Yeah. Once we set the tax rate, we can't use estimated receipts anymore. And the DOR requires that you have to have a funding source. You can't appropriate unless you have a funding source. So once you set the tax rate, even if there was money left over in the CPA fund, you couldn't access that. Unless you, unless you appropriate it as a budgeted reserve. So it's kind of like a free cash. It kind of works the same way as free cash does for the operating budget. And it actually closes out as of June 30th. And what I mean by close out doesn't leave CPA. It just goes back to the unappropriated fund balance to be appropriated again. But if we don't, it's up to the committee, whether they want to let that go for fiscal year 23 in case another project comes up or not, or save it for another project. So if the committee decides that, you know, they have a lot of good projects that they want to fund this year, then we could just release that. And it would become part of the available balance for fiscal year 24. Get my fiscal years around here. So you can issue more. Well, well, I'm just curious what, um, how it's been used in the past, like if a proportion is generally used, you said it's new. So maybe there is no standard. Well, we've had projects come up in the past. Um, or for. Small amounts that really wasn't worth borrowing for. And it was a good, it was a good cause, but we couldn't, we couldn't recommend it because the funding wasn't available. So this would make the funding available. So that's why we're doing this now. So this was a response to that happening. I'm not sure if it's, but it's only been a few years, right? Sonya since this has been put in place. For, um, we've done it, we've done it periodically. Before that. But the, but the bottom line is if you do decide to release it, then you really can't consider any other projects after this process for the rest of the year. Unless those projects are borrowing. No projects for fiscal year 23. Yes. Uh, Robin. Yeah, I was just going to, um, ask if I have this right. So it's essentially a fund that allows us to have, to be able to draw on cash funds off cycle. Yes. Yes. Which we've done a couple of occasions. Yeah. During our time, Robin. Uh, anything further to add to Sonya's comments? Sean. Oh, I see a question. Excuse me, Tim. No, I, I was just. In some, then we have about a little more than, um, eight million of requests. And if you add the debt in, it's around roughly 2 million to appropriate or expect. So that's going to be a challenge for us. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty clear we're going to have our. Uh, task, uh, A difficult task ahead of us as a committee here. Uh, given the magnitude of what's out there. Uh, we've had our. Processes that we've used in previous years, primarily trying to determine if. Uh, Projects are worthy or not. Uh, but we haven't added. Uh, Uh, Uh, this year, which is something that hasn't occurred during my time period a little bit last year, uh, which is, it's not a question necessarily of projects being worthy, but also.  Uh, so I would just say to the committee members as we go forward. You know, I don't know how our deliberative process will. Uh, I think we'll have to look at the different projects be. Considering them. Uh, or their, their merit, but also for. Their request. And, uh, We're going to have our hands full and we'll have to collectively. Come to some determinations and. You know, I may think a bit further about how we approach that. We've in the past had some. Uh, I think we've had some, some, um, I think Andy put together a nice spreadsheet. Uh, that was very helpful in terms of looking at the. Um, The projects in terms of how they met the needs. He took the requirements. Forgive me for paraphrasing Andy. We took, you took the requirements from the various. Uh, Requirements that need to be met and the goals for the different categories. Um, And we also had other, uh, Forms Robin had one that she used, and I believe it was introduced by you and Sarah Eisenhower. In terms of how to look at it, but my, my comment at this point is that just all committee members will need to consider. Uh, multiple levels on these projects. The merits associated with them. What the funding is. And we may in a later meeting display some of the methods that we've used in terms of our own internal. Um, Decision making in terms of prioritizing projects. Uh, but no matter what individuals do, they'll have to, uh, Consider the situation. Uh, Dave, go ahead. I saw your hand up. Yeah. Thanks, Sam. I know you're trying to wrap up probably for the evening here, but as, as. As we do, I just wanted to. Reiterate, you know, kind of my offer that, that, you know, I think Sean Sonya and I. Working with our staff can certainly. I'm thinking particularly around the affordable housing projects. I think there's certainly some work to be done that we can do. Um, with our staff, with the housing trust. I want to remind the committee that, you know, Carol referenced. You know, that the trust is currently their current balance is around $600,000. I think it's important to remind all of us that. Those dollars are CPA dollars. They, they were allocated from, from this committee to the trust. For affordable housing projects. And I want to also put it out there that. The town, I believe has, um. About $500,000 that was allocated last year. So that's $1.1 million. That are available for. The projects we have before us potentially. Available for the projects we have before us. Valley CDC and, and wayfinders. So I think that's a good point. I think the trust is an extension of the town. It's part of the town. So we're all on the same team when it comes to affordable housing, working for those goals. Um, I also just wanted to put out there that. You know, I think it perhaps goes without saying, but I'll put it out there that I think CPAC can ask every applicant. A couple of questions, you know, that. You know, moving forward, but. You know, ask each applicant. Can the project move ahead with less than what has been requested? Um, I think you've been successful at doing that in the past. And I think every applicant should, should be posed that question. And is the, is the project, is it necessary for the project to go forward. This year? I think you, we asked wayfinders that.  But I think every applicant should be asked. You know, can they take less than the requests that they presented? And. Does this request have to happen this year? Or can it be put. Put forth again next year or the year after. That's just the reality of $8 million in assets and only, you know, 1.8. Roughly. $1.8 million available. So, but I'm happy to work with Sonya and Sean on and the housing trust and wayfinders in Valley to see if we can find a path forward with those important projects, but pretty big asks. Thank you, Dave. Those are some good points there. I, I brought up just, I, you know, started talking about this in general, so that we have this in our mindset. And it's also important for us as committee members to hear all the presentations. This is the first. Round, which happens to be some large ones, but there are others as well. So we do need to be fair to all the different applicants and hear their presentations, ask questions. Before we actually get to any deliberations. It just seems warranted. That we. Factor in these types, you know, what the situation is and certainly additional information that you suggested, Dave, from the town in terms of what's available from the trust and what the town has in its balance would be a factor for the committee to consider as we go that route. But, you know, we have two more. Of presentations one next week and then a break for Thanksgiving. We have some flexibility at the tail end. I don't know if our deliberation process when we get to it. Will be quite as quick as before as previously. My, my personal biases that we'd be thorough. That we provide. Genuine deliberation for all these worthwhile. Requests that come before us so that we don't rush. Our decision. We don't mandate decisions. When we get to that point. Based upon. A calendar date as opposed to our deliberative process, whatever we determine will be. I don't have any additional topics that I have not anticipated. 48 hours before the meeting. We've certainly been quite. Had a lot put before us today and we have a busy agenda. A busier agenda. The following couple of weeks. So. Without, unless there is something urgent from anyone, I'm going to. All the meeting. And also if members could. Contemplate whether or not they would might be available. Next meeting to assist with minutes. Thank you very much. Katie. For volunteering this time in Andy previously. It's always a chore. There are certain time periods where it's more of a chore. Usually the deliberations might be a little bit more involved. Just FYI. But. I don't believe there's a requirement to have a vote on the meeting since we've completed our agenda. Items. So. Feel free to email me with any questions. And I'll see you next time. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't miss any of the questions. So. Feel free to email me with any questions and also. Or NCC. Sean. Sean or Sonia, if there are any questions. We might take into consideration. How we might. Further ask. And Dave's comments are a good one. That we could. Bust. Bust you late to all. Applicants. So without further comment, I'm going to adjourn. I'll just. I'll be back at eight. Eight. Oh five. PM. And we will meet again next Thursday. Same time, six o'clock. November 17th. When we will be. Receiving the next. Proposal. Well, thank you all and welcome to new members. And I'll see you soon. Thank you. Good night. Thank you. Good night. Thank you.