o in the Velco right away I was answering the question in the context of the the currently planned group because it is a different analysis if we talk about going to Velco that I'd have to give longer explanation about would you give that longer explanation so again as Chris LaForce had mentioned you know starting at the north if the alignment on the west side of Velco were to be utilized the the project would need to to zig if you will come down and then zag back and at those turning points there would need to be excavations and pulling of pipe that would occur in I think I don't see how you could do it without being in the wetlands so there would be impacts in the wetland at the north and depending again on where the the jog went back to the existing corridor in the south it would be at least in my opinion very likely that you would be within the wetland there so that you would there would be temporary impacts to the wetlands from excavation of these pits during the installation even if the entire part were to be driven because so in other words if I understand it probably if in the proposed route there are no turns that's correct it's a straight line so the set up and the pull can all occur with equipment that doesn't need to be in the park itself is that right that's exactly whereas if you have turns in the park then you have to have to put them in that's exactly the way and furthermore because the pipeline is so straight to the north and south of here as Chris was saying on Mr. Lafort the pipe can be strong or those pieces of pipe can be laid out within the existing corridor that's being done where there are permits for impacts and earth disturbance and so forth so it doesn't invoke any new areas of impact because it's all within that existing permanent corridor I just wanted to show that anybody else have a problem? Well yes on that question Mr. Nelson I know you said you're not an HDB expert I just hear you say that it's not possible to change the alignment horizontal alignment of HDD without activity in service that's my understanding based on team communication Chris Lafort obviously spoke to that earlier I'm not making that determination I'm really the one looking at what the ramifications of that would be but you just said it's not possible to change the direction of an HDD without going back in from the service that's why I think I just heard you say and I if you wish me to qualify that by saying that is my understanding I'm happy to do that but that that is not my determination that's my understanding have you looked at any of the standard works on how to conduct HDD? I'm not sure what you're referring to I should have looked at any any references yours on how to conduct HDD? it's based on communication with other members of the team Chris Lafort for example but you yourself have never looked at any of the engineering manuals standards? I'm not going to read something without knowing what you're asking me about have you looked at what we marked as exhibit A.K. which was the contingency plan that Mr. Podano drew up from Laugh Gas in 8.80? yeah I'm familiar with that and he talks about the pipeline taking turns horizontally left to right without ever reaching the service correct? I wouldn't agree to that unless you show me that language I don't I mean I have to look at it but you look at exhibit A.K. Is that in your booklet? Yes I'm going to read the pack okay so Nick is like 8.10 sheets for that maybe this is a good page Mr. Podano I thought I had it but now I I thought it was in his document and it's in his book that I have this not in evidence so I'm going to have some drugs question I have to violate the copyright well it's a copy for all of you do you want to get another measure? No. okay so are you used to work? yes I've continued you're through okay no no I'm going to I'm sorry continue artwork I'm sorry um Mr. Ness the inadvertently term um policy by Mr. I thought it was so done all the restrictions here um was that kind of connection with Festa? that's correct and was it specific in any particular topographical future? well it was um it was a general contingency plan certainly the largest HDD which was under consideration of during that project was it posed at the time drill under Lake Champlain but there were other drills that were contemplated for natural resource avoidance purposes so that that contingency plan was intended to address certainly the drill under the lake as well as this other shorter drills that were also considered this VGS currently have an inadvertently return on policy? yes there's a plan that was developed at the request of ANR for this project and it is in effect and um for the the inadvertent returns that Chris the force described that plan has been deployed successfully in ensuring no significant or ongoing impacts to natural resources as a result of those events are you aware of any inadvertently points on this project in what minutes? um I'm aware of a few that have occurred yes um and uh again the plan has been followed and there have been no significant or ongoing impacts ANR has been out each time I believe each time there's been an inadvertent return and observed conditions we file a report with the agency stating what has been done and the follow-up and ensuring that all features are returning to pre-existing conditions now with respect to a permit for the HGD from ANR do you have any understanding of what ANR's approach or the Army Corps of Engineers approach would be to necessarily have a permit when you're going on HGD this definitely yeah underneath that but the agency says this is outside the scope of direct I don't know why we're going and it's also calling for hearsay but it's outside the scope of direct and close I didn't I didn't think it was because Mr. Newman asked a lot of questions about permitting and what effect it would have on wetlands I think Mr. Nelson will testify about his conversations with ANR and and his familiarity with recognized protocols of both the Army Corps and ANR with respect to HGD and why permits aren't necessary under the way this is exactly why we need another hearing that's not in this pre-file there's no way we have to be prepared for it this is all new territory well I would say this that Mr. Dumont brought it up and once we brought it up I think I ought to have a right to complete the story and not just have the half that is told through across the ammunition for the pre-file and exhibits that we all had to be prepared for today and not get into this area if the vicinity is going to be amended so that there will be all the parts that Miss Simulari said were wrong are in the political are going to be taken out and there's going to be a new corridor management program we need to see it we need to know what it is before we have testimony about it and HGD is part of that and we need to see that plan and have a chance to respond to it Mr. Dumont I recall you asking some questions about permitting is that incorrect? what I his pre-file was responding to April Rool Arts memorandum and she said as to the wetlands it was improperly terminated she was criticizing that we didn't at all get it from the question of what is the state's position on permitting for HGD what you've now asked me about well I guess I guess what I would say is that there was Mr. Dumont specifically asked do you send that what do you send that response to to ANR and raise the issue of whether there were contacts with ANR about this and and Mr. Nelson responded no I think he submitted to the to the board but I think he directly raised this issue of what Mr. Nelson's understanding is and what his communications were with ANR and here here would you just restate the question that was a fair question I asked him if he had any familiarity with recognized protocols or approaches taken by ANR for the Army Corps of Engineers and that was a foundation question that I was going to use to ask then ask him how and and some of it is just general familiarity with with recognized approaches taken by those two agencies and some of it is based on direct communications with ANR but it was about HGD communications about HGD as I understood the question that's why objectives were about communications with what what would be the impact on the wetlands and whether or not and well it's people who looked at on day day of Mr. Nelson July 6 between Cascone and Y9 through 13 isn't he talking about this topic right there some aspect of it but as he just told us the management plan his view is that the management plan that we are spending so much time talking about today was not an HGD management plan we don't have the details of what the management plan will be for the HGDD will it include Mowing will it include anything on the surface we don't know yet so this this is a hypothetical speculative discussion about monitoring program we know nothing about and so what A&R told him their practice might be for HGD it is speculation in addition to being hearsay and yes it is related to his pre-prime to a limited extent but not to an extent that it's useful because there's nothing provided to any of us any of us about what the monitoring program would be if there's HGD which is what this is all getting done to you will they have to mow so will they have to mow the corridor for HGD yeah so we're going to uh sustain the objection okay I'm going to do it from bottom today I would like to direct your attention to pale case six and page page five of the revised speculation okay okay so in directing your attention to paragraph 19 conservation plan does sorry Mr. can you be more precise on which which extension okay this is the K K L K six parenthood technique number six and it actually is attached this is this is something a little detailed yes it is okay this this paragraph 19 address any proposed modifications that that might be made to the conservation plan in cooperation with yes so paragraph 19 which is titled conservation plan includes a a few sentences that I believe are important to to that consideration first midway through the paragraph it says specifically Vermont gas agrees to modify normal maintenance routines as needed to address concerns and so I read that to mean that the normal maintenance routines which were such as such as the the paragraphs that we've talked about in the May vegetation management plan I guess I read this that Vermont gas will be modifying those and that's that's clearly understood in this I see it in this document and then finally this this paragraph as as I read it is looking at the development of this conservation plan in the future it's really something that is not obviously consistent today but it's something that and it's not something that is effect it affects construction of the project but it's operation and that it would be done in consideration of the warbler plan that was developed by Audubon Vermont and other elements of the vegetation management plan that we developed that's all it was about we talked about the need to develop these plans in the future and these all appear to have been in these languages you recognize that I recognize that the stipulations crafted isn't and that these plans didn't follow reading from it that there there were a lot of that the stipulation reflects the fact that there was insufficient time to craft plans that that are referenced in it is that correct um certainly as to this particular plan some of the plans like the warbler plan already exists and that was attached to it but the conservation plan is something that the quarter of that management maintenance plan well see I guess I that one I I'm not sure I would agree with it because the going back to paragraph 16 just before the A through E subsections it says details of the warbler protection plan include and then there's been a lot of discussion today about C the quarter maintenance plan so then if I turn to the the warbler protection plan on page five that is a section there that says specific management actions recommended for the pipeline corridor so this is a plan that already exists now granted there's a difference between open trenching and HDD but certainly some elements of this in terms of enhancing the shrubland habitat are certainly still applicable and as far as I know Vermont gas is completely committed to working with conservation commission and Audubon Vermont to implement what's been agreed to here in this plan well with regard to the you know the conservation plan yeah how long would it take to craft one? now that you know that it's interesting right I don't know that it's a particularly we take that long it's as I say it's really the intent of that is for the operational phase of the project not the construction phase but obviously there would want to be some interfacing with the town the conservation commission but we think that that could be done we have the framework here of what is intended to be in it I think that could be done a month a week three three six months a month maybe had one redirect right of course one follow if you could keep that same document in front of you with the August 1st 2016 in terms of the KLK6 turned to the paragraph 16 that you and Mr. Dean have been referring to paragraph 16 vegetation and habitat mentioned planned some paragraph D this is the latest document the one that was actually signed and it says ensuring that any mowing in the corridor is conducted outside of nesting season very that correct one? yes so the document everybody signed on its face refers to mowing in the corridor correct? well it doesn't mandate mowing I think that what this does is that in the event that Vermont gas the conservation commission Audubon, Vermont any other representatives of the town determine that mowing is an appropriate prescription for management of those lands that this restricts times that mowing could not be done it doesn't require anybody to do any mowing well the easement date doesn't require Vermont gas to do anything it authorizes Vermont gas to do what it wants correct? um check for that it's completely argument if I continue to take a break now before we do I just like to share up the check to see if there's anybody outside who would like to come in but I think we have a couple weeks to see it's available I don't see anybody out there but in case there's one of the people who doesn't know I'm out there so I'm going to thank you thank you you're welcome let's take a 15-minute break sorry I just think I'm fine there's nobody outside I'm not great I think we could continue good afternoon do you swear or firm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give any of the troops the whole troops are looking about to prove this? I do could you please say your name for the record? Michael J. Buescher how could you spell your last name? B-U-S-C-H-E-R thank you and in this document did you prepare pre-file testimony and exhibits on April 27th 2016 for submission? I did okay and did you prepare those under your direct supervision? I did okay and are they true and accurate to the best of your knowledge? they are okay thank you this witness is available for cross-examination okay Mr. Dumont yes good afternoon Mr. Buescher how are you? good how are you Mr. Dumont? good return to page four of the pre-file line 14 the proposed easing area is located slightly away from the development order of the the vended area of the old field succession can I read that correctly? yes you did and you state that in the context of your discussion on the prior page that it is board policy to use existing corridors to site you the transmission facilities to minimize effects I do how far from the existing Velcro corridor is the proposed easement and I know it's not exactly parallel to the range I could give you an exact number I could I could quickly take a look at the map and give you a a better estimate of what that distance is do you agree that the closer the route is to the existing Velcro corridor less the visual impacts would be? this is a completely underground portion of the project so for this particular project I would say there is less need to have it exactly along the corridor whereas if it was a second transmission line being installed that would be more obvious if it wasn't directly along the side of the corridor you're probably going to say can you say a second transmission when you check out the electric transmission? yes party your prefiled state April 27th 2016 that is correct there's nothing in your prefiled about car being pipeline being underground so when I said the corridor being underground I specifically meant the the pipeline being underground when did you learn the pipeline being underground? I think it's always been underground I guess not did you need to say underground before HDD? I meant to say underground okay all right thank you so with underground not HDD but underground burial isn't there a bulk ground clearing that's associated with that? there is above ground clearing and as I noted that there would be shrub and other small woody vegetation removal but it would be limited did you look at the vegetation management plan is it preparing your testimony? I reviewed it what's your understanding of the clearing that is expected to occur? my understanding of the clearing is that under the situation where the project would have been installed by a trench method that there would have been a up to 20-foot area that was maintained on a two to three year cross schedule and that that would be for lack of better terms mode although not mode like a lawn it would be just mode every two to three years that there would be a management plan that would be irregular and feathered along the edges of the 50-foot corridor either side and in a not even and irregular fashion so it would help with the habitat but from a visual standpoint it would also help naturalize that so there would be a sharp deep location? that was my understanding from the management plan very well lady purified straight man thanks for talking about the deep so the rest of the questions have to do with the terms of the easement deep you've been here all day you've heard are talking about the different paragraphs of the easement deep the 56-foot width more tree clearing and so on have you looked at the easement deep and prepared a brain for today? I have not studied in any amount of detail I have I have reviewed portions of it you understand that the easement deep gives BGS the right to store materials and equipment within that 50-foot area I would have to see that portion pointed out to me thank you where the easement deep gives Mark he has to write that write to cut down shrugs and trees within a 56-foot wide area my understanding that is with approval or under consideration with the the town that they may be allowed to clear are you saying the town has veto power or just as it should be being sold? to be honest I don't know what the exact authority the town has over that decision process so for your testimony is restricted to aesthetic visual impact correct? that's correct do you address whether or not the project would interfere with the use other than the visual impact whether or to interfere with the use of the part other than visual impact? my testimony also addresses quarterly development it does not specifically address the use of the park thank you for the questions no questions thank you it's not a question just very briefly so Mr. Busher you understand now that the proposed plan is to use HDD for for actually constructing the project? yes I did and you also understand that there might be circumstances in which some level of maintenance might be required in the park at some clearing may be done yes you've been to Geperang's Park before I have and what's your what's your sense of it how would you describe it generally speaking? so pleasant place to be I actually I live in Heinsberg I drive down Chauburn Falls Road almost every day I would say it has moderate to low use there's a parking lot it's uncommon to see more than three or four cars in the parking lot commonly there's one or two it's regularly used though mostly passive recreation trail walkers primarily I would assume a lot of people from what I hear going out to bird and observe other type of wildlife in that area do you expect that if there were a disturbance of a minor clearing let's say to address park to either put in a pipeline marker address a concern to you anticipated would really affect people's let's just say your use and enjoyment of the park aesthetic qualities my use and enjoyment of the park is usually going the other direction up into the woods so from from mine and that's where the majority of the trails are it's going in the other direction to the east of the proposed corridor I would to put in a trail marker a pipeline marker I think that would be extremely hard to conceive that there would be any discomfort to these installing the marker depending on any type of maintenance that there could be some limited partial restriction to use of the park but I wouldn't see that it would be overly diverse or problematic to these overall intended use of the park by contrast you've I think I don't think you came on this did you come you didn't come on the site visit with us but you've been you've you've been to the parking lot before of Jeff Bragg's park yes and you're aware of the knoll that's shown on J and four that we have before us it was refers to Mr. LaForce as a hill that's to the west of the proposed corridor yes if the pipe were to be placed either open trenched or HDD along that corridor do you anticipate that you would see that notice that tree clearing from from the parking lot or from any well else in the park for that if that was I want to object there's no foundation this witness knows what the visual impacts would be of HDD drilling he stated that he uses and enjoys the park and he's been there before and we've talked about alternatives both in the pre-final testimony as well as earlier today there was the question asked what would the impacts visual impacts be of the HDD drilling in the forest that's the part of your but he's an expert in aesthetics so I I might be able to clarify with my answer I can't hear you I was going to say I might be able to clarify that well I can hear the question again so my question is were the pipeline to be in construct I'll rephrase the question were the pipeline to be constructed on the hill would you anticipate a visual that someone using the park would notice the visual on that I think it's possible if a cleared corridor was required that would require the removal of trees and then describe corridor area then that that corridor would be more apparent to users of the park I have no further questions great nice petitioners have no additional witnesses I said I have not recovered for the other witnesses what I would have covered Mr. up to now so work question that's right but I you so is that is it is testimony or even yes sir David if you want so you can go up there and I can come up it's okay it's really really I'm sorry no no no no questions no questions please stop I think we've heard a statement well we made him sit at all that was the problem it's not at all it's not at all it's not at all it's not at all so I guess are we ready for Mr. Morse okay the right questions for him right yes first one I'll ask you a question later I'll just hold you first I'll just hold you for the family good afternoon do you swear or affirm under penalty of surgery that the testimony when you're back to get was the troops the home troops and nothing about the troops yes I do could you state your name and occupation for the records my name is GC Morris I'm the gas engineer for the public service department and did you submit pre-val testimony in this matter I did and was it prepared by you or under your direction yes and is it through and accurate to this your knowledge I believe so the only thing that's to do my I just like to point out that you did sign up for 60 minutes for Mr. Busher signing for Mr. Racky out and he sat here all day if you knew we did I guess maybe you didn't know until now that you have any questions for him um it wasn't until I was much I thought we were told he was going to go that the landscape folks have been going to go first stop and there's material that I needed to cover whoever was first and I've now covered with the other way okay so more happened and I won't be long with Mr. Morris referring to page two lines 11 and 12 of your pre-partner regarding routing the pipeline to avoid property I did not discover an alternative that would be a shorter length to lower cost when did you conduct that consideration that investigation on may 24th when I wrote this what did your I utilized town maps I utilized Google and my understanding from being on the site previous occasions so town maps in google tell us a little bit more about what you did well I I researched what was available in the way of maps in our case files and then I went to the town maps just online see if I could get a little bit wider view of the parcels that were in the area or other geological features and then at my desk I just sort of plotted out what might be an alternative to routing the pipeline through the property I did not consider alternates within the property a question what alternatives did you consider I considered essentially routings that would loop around the project either to the west or to the east in my look at routings around to the east I considered what appeared to be at least three road crossings at least eight parcels of unknown complexity and buildings extremely close to well-traveled roads to the west I considered the extreme slope and topography and frankly had concerns about unstable land and installation by way of blasting and rock formation but essentially I just took a common sense as I stated and tried to keep it as cursory as possible and made the assumption which is a reasonable one that any trajectory longer than relatively straight one through the property would be at least as more expensive as the trajectory increase in its length proportionally but both alternatives that I looked at appeared to be much more complex than just that simple ratio of expense to increase interjectory length my hearing isn't good and it's a little hard to hear here did you say you did a cursory examination is that the word you use yeah I I spent the evening one evening doing that I didn't go out and actually take measurements on site I didn't take a surveying wheel I just utilized maps from my desk and looked at generalities how much time did you spend on this project I have spent endless hours on this project for many years I that was a bad question how much time would you spend doing this evaluation of alternatives three or four hours over several days did any of the alternatives you considered include use of HDD no I didn't I didn't consider HDD thank you you're welcome that's it okay I just I just come one quick question and this is a I think I'm looking for a common sense answer and this may be obvious but you said that you've worked on the whole project the whole Vermont gas project now for many years correct and you understand yes yes sir and thank you and you understand that or you've heard the testimony today that this is the last remaining parcel in order to connect the two pieces of the pipeline I have I wasn't sure about the frozen property but thank you for clarifying that for me thank you so in your opinion is there any other way short of connecting these two pieces of pipeline to put the the broader pipeline the 41 mile pipeline into operation is there any other other way no a pipeline essentially has to be contiguous in order to function understood and thank you for indulging me on this but it's your testimony that that from what you saw going through the branch part from the the ballard parcel to the north to the fordton property to the south is the in the in the corridor that's shown on JAN-4 is the shortest route yes it's quite direct thank you Mr. Morris in that case you have a point to the north on the blue line on the map on JN 4 yes you have a point to the south at the bottom and so of course the shortest route is going to be between be between those two points correct yes both in elevation and in plan view but if the points were north and south in a different location that would also be the shortest route likely so yes so I just want to ask you about the the test we've heard practical alternatives preferable alternatives I think somebody else said reasonable alternatives and you seem to be on your testimony at page two it would be a shorter length the lower cost why did you use that test that was the two criteria that I thought would be applicable to practical any follow-up to our question no thank you do you need to react no okay directly I'm sorry Mr. Morris in your role as gas engineer are you out in the field and generally familiar with the the project design and its route yes and have you in fact been on this particular property and walked it several times thank you you're welcome hold up yeah great thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you okay yes great my witness though I submitted a brief on the testimony in support of the motion to dismiss which the town is now withdrawn I have this election here because Mr. Dumont seems so disappointed on that shoulder that I might not call this so we have him here Mr. Dumont might question but we don't wish to submit this brief on testimony well if you're not submitting this testimony then Mr. Dumont can't there's nothing for Mr. Dumont no but I I've been counting on having him here it's one reason I because of documents I want to get into the record true that he's knowledgeable about can I ask you a question Mr. Allen yes so this testimony that I took to be a pre-trial test yes is it only pertinent to your motion to dismiss it is not pre-trial testimony in this case well I believe in doing now through response that we were taking the motion to dismiss under advisement and addressing it as part of the whole case the theory to counteract that motion to dismiss would be that it's an insignificant taking and I was putting in Mr. Allen's testimony to establish that at least to some degree it was a significant taking since I've withdrawn the motion I don't have particular interest in presenting that all right so we're not editing his testimony but we're making available for Mr. Dumas since he's currently alive however I understand that it was admitted this morning during it was not sent in I mean sent it in a month ago I would think it's dated May 25th but it's not been that's at least two months well just anyway just so the record's clear in case it wasn't the pre-trial test is going to be very much well I think at that point we're at it tonight thank you but he's available for Mr. Dumas that's just an objection okay okay we're going to take a break and talk about this Mr. Lasher I said if he's not if you're not going to bring in here voluntarily I want to give subpoena to the board because I've been counting on having him here but I have not I've only I've not objected to the drawing in the grip of it because I thought he was going to be here to answer questions so let's see if it's going to object are you going to object just don't don't give the argument we're going to go a few minutes so we're not here here's the argument okay one second one minute so where we are now is we have a witness who has a pre-fault testimony and then now but now they're not offering it okay it's not happening do you want to cross exam in the witness without your signal it's on the same subjectless testimony there's some documents I want to introduce to him and then ask him about the documents okay Do you have a response to that? I do I mean first Mr. Dumont said well if he wasn't going to be here that's one of the reasons that I didn't call on my own which is and my first response to that is is well you didn't file any pre-fault test products for your own witness so now they want to call Mr. Lashua and not they but Mr. Dumont must call Mr. Lashua and question him about some documents that that there really aren't even addressed in his withdrawn testimony so there's there's been no notice of at all about that Mr. Dumont didn't tell us that he wanted to that Mr. Lashua to testify it sounds like it's going to be beyond the scope of whatever he was going to testify to and he made no effort and this is something that we may complain too much about but he made no effort to file any pre-fault testimony of his own clients and I think what he probably wants to do is I'm not going to predict what he wants to do with this manager He was I prepared for his cross-examination as I had with the other witnesses who gathered documents that I want to ask the witness about that relates to the subject matter of his testimony as soon as we heard on the telephone call 48 hours ago that was thinking withdrawing his testimony I said well I need to have him there and the context in which he came up was I submitted discovery questions as was contemplated by the board's schedule after the proposed revised settlement agreement was posted on July 23rd we had a deadline that required I submit discovery questions in seven calendar days so I did that from the town and to the from my cast we had a telephone conference on Tuesday which I asked when I was going to get my discovery answers and Mr. Dodd said I would have them I think this though the conversation was Monday not Tuesday and Mr. Dodd said I would have them at the end of the day Tuesday and Mr. Allen said I would have them in 10 days which would be well after today's hearing so I said that was not acceptable I needed them before the hearing and in response to that I was told then we're just going to draw his testimony that was how it came up I said well if you're going to draw his testimony I still need to have them there because there's areas I want to ask them about that relate to his testimony and the deadline for me to find my own one pre-file that hadn't long since passed Mr. Allen do you object to this I mean Mr. Lashall let's take this there events that are describing the phone call were not to my recollection connected I had asked him if he was going to get his totally irrelevant discovery and I said 10 days I actually sent it to him yesterday he was still totally irrelevant I told him at that time when we were going by who's was putting on public witnesses and I think there was discussion about just stipulating to two witnesses and not close examining them I said that I was actually not going to call Mr. Lashall I no longer had the need to for the reason I explained the board I had proposed to Mr. Dumas during the break if he wants to he can just submit Mr. Lashall's pre he can move the admission Mr. Lashall's pre-file testimony if he wants and proceed from there I wasn't trying to take advantage of doing it at the last minute I just saw no point in presenting Mr. Lashall's testimony on my behalf anymore but I didn't want to deprive him but he would reasonably had expected to be able to cross them Mr. Lashall so you don't object to not to it across the district with their bargaining of position on the last I was on that phone call as well and my understanding was that if Mr. Allen was not going to make him a better hold that Mr. Dumas would have the next I'm sorry I'm going to go through the soul of that you know take more time discussing this for the more exciting we just need gymnastics as well with you do you swear over under penalty of perjury that the testimony about beginning to be true with the cultures and looking at the truth I do thank you for making yourself available you've been present throughout the day for the day I believe I believe yes you've heard have you have you read Mr. Laforces and Ms. Kotecki's July pre-prol testimony in which they discussed their preliminary review of alternative routes that did not involve the partner did not read that testimony have you heard that discuss it today today yes what review has the town made what study has the town made of alternative routes that do not involve the next part there has been general discussion of alternate routes but no formal study to my knowledge of Japanese principle decree has there been a vote at town meeting on whether or not to approve of the July 28th settlement agreement that was signed on August 2nd it's my understanding that is not required at all this that that question isn't even within the scope of his withdrawn pre-prol testimony and it relates to the I believe it relates to the open reading issue I don't see how whether the town voted or not I mean why would why would why was it go down that path but it's one of the issues we listed in our motion under me that the the select board lacks the authority it's not an open meeting issue at all it's just my statute the public has to vote on any diversion of use or change of use deed of of the town apartment and that's what was your question to the just whether there has been that vote that's all I'm okay with that man answering that one question yeah that's that's has there been a vote no thank you and finally civet a oh show the witness during the break from adix community car plant by the date of 6 of 28 19 negative very less documented than a couple can I cheat with you on this thing that's not happening do you need a copy there? we're gonna sharing this carrying so we're gonna get type there's a copy of updated in in september of 1999 on the tax part I was not in heinsberg on september 28th 1999 I can't verify you have seen this report in the course of your work this time ministry I am aware of his existence but not familiar with the content or have do I recall seeing it at this time well if you like it was so up we do the schools of evidence apply to the board and subject if anybody wants to check it see if it's accurate copy this is the copy we have and I would fool it submission and we'll kind of check later if this is inaccurate copy I would stipulate to substitute any whatever the correct copy is yes I do have this there's no foundation to admit it through this witness he said he was not familiar with the content frankly it's not even a proctor of how it's relevant it relates to the the part of the board of the in 1999 would you like to do address relevant to the yeah to respond to Mr. Mead Mr. Mead are the testimony that we heard the pre-prol testimony of some of the other witnesses talks about consistency with the president of future plans for the use of the part that those are addressed with the document 17 years old is there a new plan for the trans party? we look and apparently since this is the most we have actually the the conservation commission this has this these records and they look and this is the most recent for you is that your last question yes okay so I'm not we'll take we're not ever meant this today we'll take your own advisement and find your own brief whether we should admit this or not thank you what the relevant is is whatever should be the way it is if you want to read you can have a little of the side of it yeah Mr. Mead about a serious way that you would get earlier but would you say you would like to move this testimony into the record I'm happy to I wasn't sure that that was what Mr. Allen wanted to do I'm happy move this testimony on the record well Mr. Allen did offer it as well right I didn't know that was a witness I'll why did I move Mr. Lashford's testimony to the record so I'll do that any objection and jet to it because I think it is outdated it was submitted before the decision to do HDD so it addresses things before that I assume that's further reason that it has has been withdrawn is that it's no longer addresses current circumstances which I think largely have been addressed by the HDD since Mr. Allen and it's quite an hard off and there you've got to ask your questions if you really want to in brief that too but we're not going to get in yet at this time I do not really want to in I'm sorry I won't bring in that okay wait anything else we need to discuss the in-person I'm sorry I'm sorry it's okay are we done with questions for the item? yes anybody else do you need to do that I'm done okay good thank you thank you thank you now an appropriate time to talk about scheduling on the briefing yes I just didn't you focused on the motion about that this morning we did Mr. Chair what we would like what we basically asked for in the motion are three things first that if possible we can get an expert the transcript on an expedited basis and obviously to Montgasso assume that whatever the charge and the court record we can do that between us and the court record the second issue is that in light of the importance and again we're not trying to presuppose the outcome at all but the rules do talk about you know allowing for modification what justice requires and what we're worried about is that we're running out of daylight to construct the project this year so if in order it's going to be granted what we'd asked is based on the current briefing schedule if it's possible and understanding that the board has constraints we're looking to try to get a decision in mid-September and then the third thing that we asked for we asked for consideration and the other parties haven't had a chance to look at it but we would ask that the reconsideration period under 59e be five days instead of 10 days with the understanding that we'll respond in two days so what what dates you're proposing for the 500 weeks I think that briefing schedule is already agreed to in the in the existing schedule so really the bigger issue is this 59e wanting less time for reconsideration correct and that was filed today and I assume you're going to have a chance to respond to that yes okay and the I think believe we've sent out just one that we've sent out in order asking for responses to their motion by August 12th thank you August 12th eight days we'll get ready to get in the morning anything else to you to talk about before we run thank you for your patience and and yes and everybody appreciate it sorry for the evening


Let's get fit! Woo! Florida Family, where am I? I'll give you a hint. It has to do with the number 29. So in this special episode of The George Show, I want to talk about the game you witnessed last night. Pirates. Click that I up there. Where is there? There. To see that video where Alex talked about his idea for a survival-based game in the Pirates era of sunken treasure in the spirit of rust, arc, and cone exiles. Is that a game you want to see for your family built? Because he needs help deciding, or we need help deciding whether to invest in the project. Also, did you miss our latest update for age? The game we have invested in and are building? Click that I to see the latest update about that game with gameplay from the main developer, Mike, doing on. And what am I doing now? This is a new ritual. I have officially decided that I'm going to lose weight. And I encourage all of you to do the same with me. We're at 34 now. So, I would love to see videos of you training, be it aerobics, weight training, or sports. Send me links down there in the comments below of you doing something you do ritually, not once a year or once a month, but something you do at least once a week. The rituals are the best way to get anything done. It's basically a promise you make to yourself, a contract to do something habitually. So this is me doing the G to 40, climbing 40 flights of stairs instead of taking the elevator to my condo, which is on the 36th floor. But I go right to the top because if I'm at 36, there's only four more to go. Of course, I'll do four more. So let's get fit together. I enjoyed this unique presentation of a video. And my current best time is seven minutes and 18 seconds up 40 flights of stairs. And any time I get less than eight minutes, here we are, 40. Anything less than eight minutes, I consider good. What do you consider good for your ritual? Tell me in the comments below. And next episode we're going to talk about music. All of you are welcome to join our new initiative and we'll be announced by Ben Messonette about bringing in music composers into freedom to create music for the freedom family in exchange for a rev-share of all videos that music is contained in. Now you won't take anything away from the partner. We will pay you half of the freedoms cut of any videos in the freedom family using the music you, the music composer, will contribute. And it must be original. You can't do remixes. It has to be unique music. Otherwise YouTube will complain when we claim it on behalf of someone else if it is someone else's composition. I'll tell you more about that or Ben will in a future episode. And until then, let's get fit! Click that i to partner with Freedom and join the freedom family so we can all grow together. You get many perks like position music, you also get epidemic sound, a lot of other access to royalty free videos, sponsorships and many things to help you grow. Just click the links down there in the description below to get involved in our community, our forums, our discord chat servers, meet our graphics team, meet our community team, all of that on discord and the forums. What are you waiting for? Get started. And we will grow together as a family because this is the freedom family. You are part of it. We are all part of it. And we're all growing together.


Hello Hello Writers, I'm Christine Kiefer, author of fantasy fiction and creative writing resources and you are listening to the Well-Storied Podcast, where I share insights, encouragement and actionable advice designed to help you craft sensational novels and build your best writing life, always in 30 minutes or less, so you can get back to writing of course. Ready for the show? Let's get talking. Hello Writers, and welcome back to the Well-Storied Podcast. I'm your host, Christine Kiefer, and today is Friday, August 14th, 2020. Today's episode is titled How to Develop Your Story's Themes, and if you would like to read along as you listen in, you can find the corresponding blog post at well-storied.com slash themes. Now let's dive in. Themes are an integral part of any good story. But many genre fiction writers fail to consider their stories themes, believing they have no place beyond literary novels or, worse yet, that authors who actively explore themes in their stories do so to preach to readers. These harmful misconceptions hinder writers' efforts to produce effective and engaging stories. Themes are present in all forms of fiction. More importantly, when handled with care, themes lend purpose and meaning to the stories we tell. To fail to develop our story's themes with intention is to risk undermining their ability to engage and compel readers. But what are themes exactly? A theme is a central topic that a story explores. Note that I said topic rather than message. But many consider to be a story's message is more accurately known as a thematic statement, an opinion or moral concerning one of the story's themes that readers can derive from subtext. For example, if a character overcomes great hardship to reunite with their lost love, then the story's thematic statement could be described as love conquers all, with love and hardship serving as two of the story's main themes. Other common themes include hatred, hope, greed, good versus evil, the coming of age experience, and the circle of life. Examples, The Lord of the Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien, themes, good versus evil, courage, thematic statement. With courage, even the smallest among us can play a powerful role in defeating darkness. Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen, themes, love, class, thematic statement, class divisions breed prejudices that can blind us to happy possibilities. On occasion, I've seen themes called topics and thematic statements called themes, but you choose to call these two related story elements isn't important. What matters is that you develop these elements with care and intention, because they may just make or break your story's success. Do themes really play a role in genre fiction? Consider Raiders of the Lost Ark, the first movie in the Indiana Jones franchise. If you're only familiar with themes as concerns their relationship with literary novels, then you might not think to find any in this action-adventure classic. But if we define themes as the central topics a story explores, then Raiders of the Lost Ark discusses themes such as good versus evil and the ethics of archeological work. Sounds pretty heavy for an action-adventure movie, right? But the film follows Indiana Jones as he strives to recover the Ark of the Covenant before the Nazis, who believe the Ark will make their armies invincible. One of the film's thematic statements could therefore be, ancient relics should be respected rather than used for political gain. Perhaps this message seems a bit silly in light of the film's entertaining nature, but consider Raiders of the Lost Ark without this thematic statement. Would viewers have been near so enthralled by the story of a man who searches for a relic for purely selfish purposes? Unlikely. Viewers root for indie success because they recognize that his efforts could make a vital difference in the war against fascism. This motivation is what lends Raiders of the Lost Ark its meaning, and thus its edge of your seat entertainment. To put it simply, without themes and thematic statements, our stories are meaningless. Thankfully, developing these essential story elements doesn't have to be a difficult process. How to define your story's themes? Your story's genre and age market will likely define at least one of its major themes. For example, romance novelists write about love. Young adult novelists write about the coming-of-age experience. But other themes are more story-specific.  Or if the protagonist of your YA novel is a Harvard hopeful, then your story might discuss the pressures of academia. In this way, your story's themes can develop naturally. However, you can also choose to write a novel with a specific set of themes in mind. For example, I knew I wanted to explore the intersection between ambition, power, and the corrupting nature of greed when I began to develop my current work-in-progress, Lady Legacy. Your story may discuss a large number of topics. However, I recommend identifying the two-to-five most important themes your story will explore. Defining these topics will help you hone one of the most important facets of your story. It's thematic statements. How to develop your story's thematic statements Some thematic statements concern plot or world-building. For example, in The Hunger Games, Suzanne Collins explores the concept of spectacle, theme, and how authoritarian governments often use spectacle to distract from the suffering and oppression they inflict. Thematic statement. However, a story's most important thematic statement is often that which lives at the heart of its character's experiences. Readers didn't tear through The Hunger Games for its discussion of spectacle. Rather, they were enthralled by Katniss Everdeen's fight to not only survive the games, but to maintain her dignity in the face of an authoritarian government that pressured her to become a cold-blooded killer for its own entertainment. Stable stories are interesting, but the fight to maintain one's humanity in the face of state-sponsored trauma and oppression, now that's an engaging story. When developing your story's most important thematic statements, consider character arcs. Who are your characters when their stories begin? What internal conflicts will they experience? Who will they be when their stories come to a close? And most importantly, what messages can readers derive from your character's experiences? For more information on character arcs, make sure to check out the episodes on positive, negative, and static character arcs here on the podcast or the corresponding articles on the WellStory blog. Once you've identified these thematic statements, use them to hone your story as you write and revise. If a scene doesn't support the thematic statements you've defined, then it may not serve a purpose within the larger context of your story. Try to avoid beating readers over the head with your intended point. If you've refined your story's plot and character arcs to support the thematic statements you'd like to make, then readers will get the message. Shouting it at them will only make your point feel forced and your story contrived. If you're unsure whether you've developed an effective thematic statement, then consider what a good thematic statement is not. 1. A good thematic statement is not a theme. It's an opinion or moral that concerns a theme. Not a thematic statement? Love. Thematic statement? Love conquers all. 2. A good thematic statement is not a definition. It does more than simply explain the meaning of a theme. Not a thematic statement? Love is the affection we feel for others. Thematic statement? Love can blind us to the flaws in our relationships. 3. A good thematic statement is not story specific. Rather, it conveys a more universal message. Not a thematic statement? Romeo and Juliet's love is destructive. Star-crossed love can both heal and destroy. If you can clearly define what you'd like your story to say, then you hold the key to developing a meaningful story that will keep readers on the edges of their seats. So tell me, writer, what themes will your story explore? Thank you for listening to today's episode of The Podcast Writer. I hope you found it helpful to your writing journey. If so, make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss a new episode, and to give the podcast a quick rating or review. Doing so goes a long way toward helping the podcast reach new writers and lets me know that you're enjoying what I'm creating. You can also give me a shout out directly on Instagram at christen underscore keeper. For additional guidance as you work to craft sensational novels and build your best writing life, be sure to head on over to www.well-storied.com, where I share blog posts, workbooks, e-courses, and other helpful resources for writers. Again, that's W-E-L-L-S-T-O-R-I-E-D dot com. Thank you again for tuning into today's episode, my friend. Until next time, happy writing!


The Department of Defense selected an Army researcher as its laboratory scientist of the quarter. The DOD named Dr. Christopher Darling, a material scientist with the U.S. Army Research Laboratory as the best in the DOD. In a very close race, Dr. Darling was selected based on his recent discovery, wrote Dr. Melissa Flagg, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Research in a memo November 10th. As a testament to the significance of Dr. Darling's contribution to his field, he recently published his findings in Nature, an interdisciplinary scientific journal that is widely regarded as one of the top two most prestigious academic journals, publishing original research across a wide range of scientific fields. Darling's discovery could lead to many new materials applications, including inside turbine engines, where temperatures can soar to more than 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit. It has the potential to revolutionize a lot of potential applications and that would affect both, you know, DOD and civilian society. Darling earned his doctorate from North Carolina State University in 2009 and immediately started working for the U.S. Army as a postdoctoral fellow at the Army Research Laboratory. He soon became a federal employee at the lab and began his work on nanomaterials research. I always wanted to serve the military and that's one of the reasons that I came. When I graduated with my PhD, I applied to all the government agencies and I wanted to work for a government because I have a long family history of men serving in the military. Darling said he hopes people will look at his work and take it even farther. You know, there are professors in universities and things that you look up to because they're so well known and they've established some amazing findings in research and areas and I just hope, I hope that maybe that I leave some sort of a spot that maybe people will look at the work that I've done and maybe take it farther, you know, that maybe in some way that I've contributed to something that will be a permanent sort of landmark. For ARL TV, I'm David McNally.


Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2017, brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. Okay, welcome back everyone live here at VMworld 2017 live CUBE coverage. Third day of three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Two sets here in the broadcast center with theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. We're here with Pat Gelsinger, CEO of VMware. Pat, great to see you. Smiling, I know you had a little bug, flu or something going on, but you delivered a great performance on stage. Congratulations. Thank you, Dave, and great to see you. Awesome to be here, Pat, thank you. It is so, thanks, John, and you know what? We have this little inside joke here where, right, Dave stood me up a few times, but he made it here today, so I'm thrilled. I'm back on theCUBE, this is great. I was on the wire, I know, but I'm back, right? He's on the bandwagon, numbers are up, looking good, change of performance, good job, good to see you. Hey, great job as CEO of VMware. Obviously, with Dell Technologies, a lot of things going on last year.  Stocks at an all-time high, five years. Financially, VMware's doing great. Everyone's pumping, the message is clear, and you know, you look at the keynotes, a couple things that jump out at us when we look at all these events is, by the wave slide, when you position the wave slide, you can see who's got the waves down, and you're a wave guy. You've seen many waves. Your wave slide was very clean. Cloud, IoT Edge, very clean. VMware's made some decisions, made some bets, changed some bets that kind of weren't happening. Those were a big point in VMware's history under your tutelage. Talk about the bets you made, what's panning out, obviously the clarity with the channel and the ecosystem and the communities there. What were the big bets, Pat, and why is VMware doing so well right now? And I sort of go back, it's been five years now. In fact, VMworld sort of marks my anniversary. It was a stage five years ago when I took over as CEO. And soon after becoming the CEO, I and the leadership team sort of got together and we said, hey, we need the focus, and we laid out our three-part strategy. One was around the private cloud, do the whole SDDC. The second was what we called the hybrid cloud at the time, we needed to figure out a way to enable public and private resources together. And third was the UC. And sort of each one of those, if we just click a bit deeper into it, an SDDC, obviously the NSX move, we had just acquired NYSERA. We had launched the VSAN project. It was just a little seedling R&D project. We brought together VRealize, which was sort of a collection of parts in the management space, but we really solidified that SDDC. And now all legs of it are performing. You sort of say, check, right? We are virtualizing the data center. We're no longer virtualizing compute. The second on the cloud, obviously our first, VCloud Air, the way the market went and so on, we had to do some adjustments there. But now when you think about how we said, build private clouds, embrace public clouds, give consistent operations across any cloud, this is all planning out. The VMware partnership with Amazon, delivering on that, the VMware cloud services, people are excited about that. And in many respects, people say, wow, you got the IBM partnership, the Amazon partnership, you got 4,400 cloud provider partners as well. And what you've done for the cloud service, wow, in some ways maybe you have the most comprehensive strategy to the cloud now. And then in the end user computing space, it was really, we were always sort of this perpetual number two to Citrix. And it was sort of like, are you guys like even trying in that space? And we said, hey, if we're going to be in the space, we have to be in mobility. We did the AirWatch acquisition, and now those pieces that fit together with Workspace One and that's performing. So you look at every piece of what we're doing, you sort of say, hi, you're executing. And then maybe we put a cherry on the top with the security strategy. As we've done with micro-segmentation, a single sign on and now app defense. And those are things that are really, that's the core of what we're doing and all of them are delivering. Well, I was in New York City, shortly after you took this position and you laid out for the financial analysts, sort of your view of the total available market, the segmentation, you did your homework. And a lot of those are coming true. Now, two and a half years in, license revenue was down. It looked to be a little, some bumps in the road today. Let's review the numbers. I mean, license growth, what, 13%? 14%, revenue was 12%. License revenue was 14%. Overall, licensed bookings was 14%. Overall bookings 18%, 22% EPS growth. Those are pretty good numbers. The cash flow of almost $3 billion. 3 billion is what we're saying, not almost 3 billion, just. I thought it was, okay, and then nice. And then a very capital efficient business model. Yes, yeah. So all things are pointing to great tailwinds for you guys. To what do you attribute that? What are the forces, was it? And how did the clarity around your cloud strategy fit into that? And also the reality of customers that you can't bring your business and reform it to the cloud, that you've got to bring the cloud to your data. I wonder if you could talk about those tailwinds. Sure, and as we go think about all of those pieces, obviously our strategy now is resonating with customers. And a couple of years ago, it was discussions like OpenStack, and hey, everything's going to be in the public cloud. You guys are dead, right? And now people realize, oh, you can't just refactor your applications to the public cloud. That's hard. And when you've moved, you haven't gotten any value from that. VMware gives you now the seamless way to do it. We stitched together that whole strategy and people say, oh, that works. New capabilities are virtual networking. It's like, wow, that really changes how we think about the entire networking space. So one, the strategy is resonating to customers broadly. Also, we've clearly seen that our own execution is just picking up momentum. You know, our sales teams is just a very balanced performance across all the GEOs, every aspect of how we're building our partner relationships, et cetera. You know, and those are things that just take a long time to build, right? It's easy to talk about sales execution. It just takes time to get those capabilities in place and continued great performance by our partner community as well, very visible here. And then the Dell deal is working for us.  And now it's delivering real acceleration to our business. We've come through the other side, you know, a real respect of the ecosystem plus the acceleration from Dell. So everything really feels good. Yeah, things are pumping. It's awesome, congratulations. But let's get back to the bets I want to get to, because by the way, NSX I want to get to in a second because that's going to be another power engine. You mentioned it last year, but let's get that in a second. The bets that we see right now at this show, it was a big announcements where obviously Andy Jassy was on stage. You guys shipped a general availability of VMware on AWS, which was part of the announcement we covered in the spring in San Francisco. So you shipped it, which was big because on the heels of VCloud Air, you needed to get that win and you got to win.  Hey Ops guys, we got your back. This is a real deal. That's pretty good for the customers. Then you got Google on here with this kind of Kubernetes inside baseball, long game, strategic intent around containers as a service, making things easier, shows another hand to the customers. You got some headroom. So you got operational support now with the cloud with Amazon, Google participating with Pivotal. Nice bet. Explain why those are two important bets. Yeah, and I'll actually say there's three important bets, but obviously the first one is number one public with a number one private. Boom, they come together, customers go, wow. This is an elegant solution. That's the thing I always say to customers, can you run vSphere, right? We got millions of people who can say yes to that. You can now use VMware and AWS. It's really that simple. You saw it demonstrated as well. And the elegance, the simplicity of that, oh, I can now add nodes to my cluster and I can now move workloads to it. It's just, okay, good. You're now taking advantage of the cloud. And the power of that with literally 60 million workloads running that now have that kind of flexibility. Every CAO now has a massive new capability in his toolbox to set his IES strategy for the future. Game changing. Clearly the Google Pivotal announcement was very much aimed toward that future developer, the container development. I'm one of the cool kids who's doing microservices and scale out, but clearly bringing together the DevOps community with the infrastructure and operations, nobody's effectively bridging that gap today. And that's exactly where we're stepping into the middle with PKS, bringing all of the VMware stack up and bringing the developer friendly environment down. Very powerful and have Google here with us was a big affirmation of that strategy. And the other one I'd say is the IBM partnership. This is the big of the big, right? In the center of their install base, the customers who are on them today, plus there also. We had them there for the services. You might see them again in an event in the near future in a more prominent way as well. And that's also working for us. And then the other 4,399 cloud partners. So all of those taken together, very comprehensive. And then of course you lay the icing on the cake, which is the VMware cloud services. Can you help us understand the sort of architectural evolution and the implications of cloud? Obviously VMware did a great job of dealing with the performance issues related to the abstraction layer and servers, okay, the compute piece, check storage with flash, used to be the problem, now it's less and less the bottleneck and people talk about, okay, the network is now the next bottleneck. And as you think about multicloud and binding those clouds, if you will, can you talk about architecturally how you're evolving, how VMware is evolving and what the architectural challenges are and sort of lay out what that looks like in the future? Yeah, and clearly, you know, I always like to say, and the data has gravity. So, you know, compute is now getting pretty easy to move around, right? The data has gravity, it's pretty heavy to move around.  And then obviously the network is how you connect those things together. So we can apply more, we have more and more flexibility to move the compute to the data wherever it is in the future. So clearly, you know, as we're thinking about multicloud and hybrid cloud, it's to make it easier and easier, you know, for people to say, this is where I'm going to put my data for the following reasons.  Or I'm going to put it in this environment because I have to have, you know, this network of people working on it. Or for governance reasons, or privacy or others, I need to put it here. And now we can make it very easy to bring compute to that or even, you know, as we think even further out of time, not just computer containers, but also functions and serverless as well. And obviously solving network bottlenecks underneath that, you know, make the network easier and easier. And with NSX, obviously, as we keep expanding that platform of capabilities, you know, we have to make all of the network functions easily consumable, right, at that software layer now. So you're going to see more and more of routing functions and load balancer functions, obviously, with micro segmentation firewall functions moving into that layer, more intelligence, because we're going to be able to say, wow, if I move that piece of workload relying on this data, oh, that's a pretty bad move. You know, you have to start having a much more affinity-based allocation of where things move as well. So that ends up being intelligence in the management plane as well, combining with that agility that we're building in the networking layer.  Because now you're going to have all these devices creating extraordinary amounts of computing capacity at the edge. So that's where some of the technologies, like SD-WAN, start to become relevant to play as well. And NSX becomes this way that we can reach even further, right, and closer, and other factors, particularly as we start thinking about edge and IoT use cases, where it won't be about data gravity, it'll be about latency issues of delivered value to the robot or, you know, to the car to swerve or whatever it might be. It's interesting that the data and software in the world, data-eating software, as we say in theCUBE, you have, you guys as an infrastructure provider, looking like a SaaS company. So more and more, software and data are driving everything. So the question is, is this going to be a VMware inside the cloud campaign coming? I mean, it will see some patterns here, Pat. You know, what? You know, I may be able to reuse some of that intel inside marketing programs. Yeah. That is Robin. But you know, Rob is like that all the way up there. But this is what we're seeing. Yeah, Robin doesn't let me in the marketing department. Just a little bit. Pat, we have a few ideas we need to test. Okay, good. Now, Lee. Okay. Yeah. You know, I commented on this last spring, which, oh, VMware capitulated in these cloud deals. But here's what's interesting. As the cloud starts to emerge in these specialty clouds, I call them, I don't call them tier two, but a second level of clouds. The native guys, not cloud native, but like Amazon, Google, Microsoft, will always have that native cloud position. But now a new set of functionalities emerging called cloud service providers on steroids or next generation cloud service providers, they're going to need a supplier, right? VMware is perfectly aligned now to come in to power that. So you can argue that VMware now never capitulated. They have 5,000 plus customers. They're not going anywhere yet, or there's more opportunity. So talk about this new dynamic, the power of the customer base, and how it fits in this new cloud dynamic where new clouds will emerge on top of these native clouds. Yeah. And, you know, a couple of just like little data points to help that and then talk about it more broadly.  I know those words. And I said, you know, I tried to re-platform to the native cloud services and I couldn't get it done, right? It was hard, it was heavy. So, you know, the idea of VMware cloud being able to now take him to the cloud in the seamless way, wow, that was powerful to him. You know, another little data point, when we had the first rumors of our AWS partnership came out, one of the first phone calls I got was from another cloud provider and says, I want to be your first partner for that. And I'm like, don't you compete with Amazon? Right?  And he says, no, no, no. He says, you know, we realize that we can't compete with them. We have to add value with them. And yeah, we have our specialized cloud services that we offer. You know, we're reselling Amazon cloud already and your service combined with what we're already doing. It was one of our VCAN partners now, our VMware cloud provider partners was adding this service that you're doing. Can we resell that as well? How can we be the lead partner for that as well? So very much that partner community for us is very much, you know, some of them will be, quote, specialized clouds, but many of them will be, you know, I'm the point of the customer relationship now. You know, I have all of these workloads, many of them built on VMware. I have these other service offerings, you know, because I want to own and take care of that customer for life. Relationships there. They own it. They own it. Absolutely.   You know, and those relationships now are the center and now they're saying that this is other compute capabilities or service capabilities. I'm the one who are going to deliver. And in many cases, those are going to be specialized clouds as well. You know, to me, I find it stunning that many of my traditional enterprise customers, they're becoming service providers. You know, and essentially their customers or their internal departments are essentially becoming their tenants in a multi-tenant cloud way. Well, this changes the nature of the relationship the customer has with their vendor. Indeed. Because now it's not a procurement, it's a relationship piece. The clouds working together is changing the work relationship. Absolutely. Can you elaborate on some of those dynamics? Because you're going to have Amazon, you guys have been successful so far in working that relationship for both parties. Yeah. And you know, clearly as we look to the future here as well. You know, I mean, it's very, you know, we have to, we're learning how to partner with all of them and present a value proposition. And ultimately, you know, as I describe it, if you do what the customer wants, almost always you're going to do okay. Right? You know, oh, is that competitively better or worse and what happens here and so on like that? You know, keep your eye on the customer, do things that add value to the customer and things will work out okay in the long term. So Pat, four years ago on theCUBE, we asked you, is security a do-over? And you were pretty unequivocal about that. You said, yes. Absolutely. And then Monday on stage, you said, as an industry, we've failed you. Now, it's not for the lack of trying, it's not for the lack of funding. What is it and why is it changing and how will it change? Yeah. And I think, you know, if you think about that section of my keynote on Monday, you know, I tried to lay out, you know, I'll say a pretty declarative view of what we think is a fundamental restructuring of the industry where, you know, we need to melt many of the security functions into the infrastructure, not make it that you turn them on. It's like, it's hard to turn them off, right? You know, and right, unless you do something, you can't not be multi-factor and single sign on. You know, your data is going to be encrypted, right? Unless you like figure out that you really, really need it turned off, right?  Because right now the problem is you got these almost 2,000 vendors, so many point solutions, and you, Mr. CIO, in a mobile cloud world where you own and control almost nothing, you got 2,000 things to stitch together, you got to test them, manage them, break sure they're updated and manage them. It's hopeless, right? And then you got attackers who basically are finding and weaseling their way around all the edge use cases for any of those individual products. It's a very broken view of delivering a security model for our customers. So we laid it out, the three things, secure the infrastructure, we're going to do a whole lot of that, melt these core functions, integrate an ecosystem, prove those use cases, contextual management to integration, you know, packet flows, all that kind of stuff. We have to do that with our core partners, right, for it, and then enable consistent cyber hygiene. Five things, we said lease privilege, data encryption, multi-factor authentication, one slip of the mind, software patching and updating, and micro segmentation. You're studying up for all that. Look at you, a CEO, good to see you. Any response to this other one? Response was the other big piece of the strategy. You know, for this, we really think that, and if you look at all the major breaches, we think 80 plus percent of them would be eliminated or the attack surface so dramatically reduced if you just did cyber hygiene well. And like I said on stage, it's like a sports team. You know, you don't need to practice the complex plays very often. Almost all your practice time is on the basics. Right, you do this really, really well on a consistent basis. You know, you don't have many problems. Had final question, I know the handlers are yelling at us across the way. You got to go. Final question. Okay, let's hang out for a while.  You got a good stock price right now, you can do whatever you want now. We all know what the cloud looks like today, Amazon and the configuration, and the customers can get that and they see a path, they understand hybrid, they understand the cloud, they see the picture, they see the trajectory. My question for you is what is the expectation of the customer and the experience of the cloud in 2022 because now you can shoot the arrow forward. What is your vision for that expectation of the customer and the experience that they're going to have? Yeah, and let me suggest maybe three different dimensions for that, one might surprise you a little bit. But one is, if we do our job over the next couple of years, you're simply going to be able to say, and Michael likes to say this, cloud is a model, it's not a place. And we're going to be able to say, hey, we're going to make a set of services ubiquitously available, they might be on premise for business needs, they might be in the cloud across multiple clouds, you're going to be able to say, I have an IaaS environment that's globally available and infinitely scalable. You should say, and it just works. Sounds good, yeah. And has security built into it, I'm able to connect to it at all of these places, I'm able to stretch it to the edge. You know, it's just phenomenal in that way. Second piece as you think about that cloud is, now that we've really sort of addressed that, now you're going to, in many cases, your cloud is really going to be based on the services that it uniquely offers over and above that capability. And you might say, oh, you know, I'm really excited about that new machine learning breakthrough that Google did. And you're going to say, oh, most of my workloads, I have this flexibility VMware has given that to me, but that's exciting because I'm, you know, let me see how I can use that for my business advantage. Oh, you know, Watson came out with it, let me take advantage of that. You know, and boy, you know, that service list stuff that, you know, and lamb this, that's pretty cool. I'm excited about that. And you're going to be able to start saying, you know, against this fabric of flexibility, global availability, scalability, right? You know, I'm going to be able to take advantage of those. Other services are clearly going to be ensuring that I'm secure, that I'm meeting my regulatory requirements and, you know, the governance capabilities that I have associated with this. So, you know, that's really what the differentiator is going to be five years from now. You know, it's going to be the services over and above those capabilities. You know, but the other thing that we foresee happening is that, you know, 5G starts getting built out at the end of this decade. 5G will be potentially the largest capital buildout of the remainder of our careers. You know, I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. You know, we're healthy, you know, so like that, you know, but over the next 20 years, this is the big kahuna, right? You know, building a 5G networks, probably 10X the number of antennas are going to get installed, you know, 100X the bandwidth, new spectrum allocations, and 100X the new devices that are going to get connected to it as well. And how the 5G networks can interconnect with that cloud to deliver services, because all of a sudden I may have a whole, you know, I may have a VR, AR use case that needs 1000X the bandwidth, and then all of a sudden I may be trying to reach to, you know, 1000X the number of edge devices, and we're going to have these enormous interconnected cloud services. You know, and as we think about that, and that's why we sort of, you know, added that telco piece to the vision of, you know, VMware that we presented on Monday of this week. And that's why for us, you know, as we're starting to reach into the NFV space, the Vodafone announcement that we did this week, and you know, some of the edge and IoT things that we're doing, we're quite excited that that starts opening up, you know, and again, it's not going to happen in the next year or two at significance, but five years from now, this is a big deal for us as an industry.   Oh, that was you. Final question is only going to take 20 minutes to answer, but I noticed there's a soft side of Pat Gelsinger this year, hugs on stage. Oh my gosh. We get hugs now on the queue.  Right, you got a hug for consistency.  Give him the code. Forgive it, Joseph. The prodigal has returned, I love you. Pat Gelsinger, CEO, he's got a spring to a step. He's got some smiles, stocks up on the right, financials looking great, products looking great, customers are happy, great roadmap, big waves coming, Pat, thanks for sharing your insight. And commentary. It was a pleasure to be in the queue. Thank you guys. And thank you for your support over the years. You've been great guests. Very good. Thanks for having more live coverage after this short break.