Please now let us welcome reporters without borders, and we have Lucy Morillon and Grégoire Pouget. Please give them a warm round of applause. Thank you guys. Sorry again for the technical problems, but I think we're we're all good now. I just wanted to tell you that it's a real pleasure for us to be at the CCC. It's the first time that reporters without borders is officially represented here. Of course, we have members and supporters who come very often but it's the first time that we are officially here and we want to thank the CCC organizers for giving us a floor today and for giving us the opportunity to reach out to you guys and to speak before slightly different audience too from which we are usually usually used. So I wanted to tell you a little bit more about reporters without borders because you probably wonder what you know what reporters without borders doing here What is a bunch of journalists here? We are journalists, of course but we are also activists, activists of freedom of expression, and I think that's also the case for many of you in this room And that's why we are here today. We want to tell you more about what we do, what we plan to do, and what we may be able to do together. Reporters without borders, as you may know or not, is an international press freedom organization. We'll come later on to where we are based, what our or a network and so on. But what important thing that you need to know now is that our activity is really to defend freedom of information. We believe that what we do is not only to support journalists but to support everyone that is involved in the business of spreading the news and we really what we do is not supporting only journalists but it's supporting everyone's right to be informed, my right to be informed, your right to be to be informed. We have the mandate of the organization has of course evolved.  They would do some reports, they would come back and try to to give us reports to televisions, newspapers and so on and this lasted for a few years after the founders of the organization realized that the main issue was not really about foreign reporters going into these countries but the real issue was how do you empower people in the countries to be able to report the news, to be able to let us know what is really going on and they changed the mandate of the organization from basic reporting to actual support to local journalists who were trying to do their jobs in sometimes terrifying conditions and another evolution in our mandate is also the fact that we were basically more working more with traditional journalists at the beginning and now we also defend bloggers, netizens, people who are being arrested, harassed or killed for their activities not only offline but also online so that has been a big change to reporters without borders actions, but I think it makes it it makes us much more relevant about the issue of freedom of information. Freedom of information is no longer something that belongs to a specific class of journalists, but it can be any of our business and we've seen it in in many countries this past this past months especially. So these are the three main chapters we look at freedom of information and citizen issues then we look at reporters without borders resources and how you may want to get involved hopefully. Why defend media freedom journalists and bloggers that was I was basic saying earlier without the free information no cause can be heard, no human rights violation can be reported. We work with a lot of local journalists who keep denouncing human rights abuses, corruption, a lot of issues that are very important to their citizens in their countries and of course it sounds pretty obvious but people need accurate information to make some decision whether it's on political, social or economic side. Here are some specific examples of information that has proved to be vital to the public. The tainted baby formula scandal in China was revealed after it was revealed on the web after months of covering up by the authorities. Why? Because you know the story could have broken right before the Olympic Games and it would have been terrible for China image. So the authorities prefer to cover this up and we had several hundreds of thousands of babies were contaminated by this tainted milk from San Lu and and you know you see some of the bottles actually up there and also this is one example of a demonstration by a woman who lost her baby over there and it's been amazing to see how first of all this entire thing has been covered by the authorities and how people were trying to suggest this and to spread the news about this to prevent that more babies would be contaminated, how they were also repressed, arrested by the authorities. So that was really a big deal to us and it's I think a very telling example of what criminal censorship can be. Also other stories that are very important and to the public and that are of a lot of interest to netizens around the world It's also corruption stories. I mean Navalny in Russia has has done a great work of denouncing a lot of corruption stories We've seen also some cases of impunity denounced online thanks to netizens who didn't want to just let this go I'm thinking of China, I don't know if you're familiar with this example, but there was the son of a local official who was responsible for a deadly car accident and when he killed this this girl he actually left the place saying go ahead and try to arrest me I'm Li Gongsun and Well, that was a terrible example of how some people can think they can do anything in impunity But the netizens didn't let it go and online the information spread people were absolutely outraged and And the guy who was responsible for the accident was eventually found and arrested So that shows the power of of the internet the power of netizens when they come together and they decide to fight for a cause Another sort of information that is vital to the public. Maybe we we talk a little less about it. I mean Vesvis tainted formula baby formula scandal, of course, but in Saudi Arabia when Saudi Eve or other blogs that are being Let's say held by women are censored It's not only a basic question of censorship. It's also a place where Questions linked to breast cancer for instance cannot be discussed So this closing a website like Saudi Eve or trying to to block it to filter it is also a way of preventing women to have access to essential health issues information Well, there are many other cases, but I will probably go to the next Next topic we've seen in 2011 something pretty new netizens were killed in Mexico because of The because they did not so they covered organized crimes issues And I know for some of you who read Spanish This is one note that was left next to one body of one of his killed netizens and it's basically a Message sent to this woman was killed and also to all users of social networks to Basically want them about what could happen to them if they continue to cover what the cartels do online. That's a pretty strong Message, it's not only journalists were killed in Mexico now. It's also netizens and and and bloggers That's actually leads us to I don't know if you saw this report we published it on the 22nd of December and This are key figures for 2011. I'm gonna just do short, but We try with our networks and so on to Monitor and to assess as much as possible the extent of the censorship and of the attacks on Journalist bloggers and so on and these are the figures of Journalists killed kidnapped arrested attacked and bloggers and netizens killed arrested attacked and what I mean the general trend is that It's becoming more and more dangerous to spread information you can see here Sorry. Yeah, you can see there There has been an increase in the number of journalists killed specifically in Pakistan and Mexico Which are the two most dangerous countries for for reporters? But also you can see an amazing increase of the number of journalists and bloggers also arrested for journalists They were more than 500 in 2010 and we're more than 1,000 in 2011. That's really an incredible increase and why is that I mean clearly this was linked to the Arab Spring People went in the street the story was in the street in 2011 and Journalist bloggers net journalists who improvise themselves citizen. Sorry. We improvise themselves as journalists were targeted because they had to come down to report the news and And this is this is clearly not only because of the Arab Spring but also because of all the protest movements they have inspired around the world and Also, it's due to the brutal response of authorities of countries that were not directly affected by the Arab revolutions But that took some measures to strengthen the repression in order to avoid The spreading of the movement. I'm thinking of China Vietnam We have not talked about it as much as as what happened in Egypt Tunisia But clearly the repression has been very strong and not only online with censorship of just mean revolution World and so on but also Physically arresting a lot of journalists and netizens. I mean China is before Iran and Vietnam as the most as the biggest prison for journalists worldwide today and Actually, we have a hundred and twenty-nine netizens in jail as of today and a hundred and seventy-one journalists in jail I mean all of us for informing ourselves I'm thinking today, especially of Noble peace price Liu Xiaobo who's the only noble peace price recipient in jail today That's why we have actually our free Liu Xiaobo t-shirts and you can find them online on our website We do we do also think of Michael Nabil Sanad in Egypt His health is very worrying today He's been arrested earlier this year and his only crime was to question the role of the army during the revolution in Egypt So that tells a lot about the situation today in the country That was also one of the lessons we heard from 2011 also in 2010 the role of social networks as Mobilization and use transmission tools anyone can I mean anyone was able to send information to cover the news And we've seen here how traditional journalists had an interest in working with bloggers netizens on the ground I mean, how can you get today image from China? story image from Syria if you are Only working through traditional journalist networks. You can't I mean you have to be in touch with people on the ground They are the one who take risk, but they continue. They want us to tell the rest of the world They want us to tell all the Syrians and obviously the region what is going on so that there's a solution found today to the issue and Thanks to thanks to the internet thanks to social networks and thanks to these very courageous Journalist netizens we we are today able to follow up what what is going on to follow live the repression the demonstrations And it's something that is very new. I remember in 2007 when the monks Well in when we had the saffron revolutions the monks revolted in in in Burma, and it was something that we were able to follow live Clearly the repression was very strong But compared to what happened in 1988 where also the Burmese dissidents were very severely Repressed in in Burma. We were at that time not able to get a live coverage, of course And we received some footage some images But very few of them and and weeks or months after the bloody crackdown happened So that's something that is not possible anymore today And we've talked a lot. I didn't really like this idea. I mean a lot of A lot of people were talking about Facebook revolution Twitter revolution I mean clearly they played a role as sandboxes They helped spread the news and so on but we shall not forget that this where before and for and foremost in Tunisia in Egypt this this were revolutions human revolutions We will have to make sure that the online mobilization was finding an offline echo to make things happen And that's well, yeah We had really people going down in the streets taking risk being killed being shot because they wanted to change things So that's We're just coming back quickly to the citizen journalist and and the important they have Especially in countries where the mainstream media under the control of the government These are the ones who cover the news It's thanks to some Vietnamese bloggers for instance that we are aware of the box it's issue and the Environmental problems it has caused in the country you won't find that coverage in the official media and You know anyone can be a citizen journalist you can be Anyone can be a blogger can be of course a citizen journalist But also netizens lawyers human right defenders We've seen that there's a wide range of people that decided to step in and to to help the flow of info the flow of information sorry and I mean, we're very humble about how The local people the local journalists the local bloggers are the one who are really In danger the ones who are taking the risk and without them We won't we wouldn't be able to do anything We try to provide them as much assistance as we can and I'm just gonna tell you a little bit about our activities The basic one to be able to take action to defend online freedom We need to have facts we need to monitor on online free speech and Cybersensorship so we do some fact-finding missions to different countries in some countries we go as journalists in some countries We go as an NGO and in many countries. We just enter as tourists We run the risk of being expelled, but that's not a lot compared to what's the local journalist Do we well some of my colleagues were recently in Libya offers in Mexico? We try to be on the ground as much as we can so we can get reliable information and We try to be also very cautious about the local contacts we make or not when we decided it's too dangerous for for the people there I just this is a screenshot for from our website the internet chapter Just to give you an idea of what kind of of action we've taken recently In Democratic Republic of Congo We denounce the blocking of SMS messaging during I mean just just after the elections and the unrest that followed the contested re-election of of president Kabila and it's very interesting I don't know if I can see it here Let's see We had an answer from we wrote an open letter to the interior minister of Democratic Republic of Congo. I don't know how many of you can speak or read French here but basically He didn't like or a letter and the answer is pretty telling. We cannot see anything Let me just Briefly translate for those who don't understand It's been it's basically explaining that he's the one who took the decision to cut SMS messaging service and while in consultation with our authorities in the country and Is saying that his mission is to guarantee public order and citizen security and especially in this electoral times that was violent and agitated and He's saying that the government does not take any instructions or receive lessons from anyone including reporters without borders and Yeah, he's the only one to be able to assess the opportunity of conserving or Counseling the measures it took and he's aware of the financial loss for companies especially Telephone telcos the population and the state itself that's one of the issue we actually wanted to to highlight and He's saying that the next time we next time you write to a minister or any other authority we should use a more courteous and responsible language and He forbids us to to give him orders. So clearly or Our letter was not well received But I think we were not the only one of course to denounce to denounce this situation But I think that the fact that we as an international organization took a stand on this issue help partly to To change and then to restore the SMS service. We also welcome the release of Of a blogger in Egypt. Mr. Abdul Fattah. We also publish press release about In China some another cyber dissidents was was going to jail. We had three cyber dissidents who went to trial this week also in We also publish something about the Maldives where blogger was victim of religious intolerance and We also relayed the news about the release of Razaan in in Syria and Also bad Kazakhstan when the communications were cut in one in one part of the country that is marked by unrest right now We also did not that so that's you know, you can see that we try to intervene in many countries different cases To to help the people we we defend that we also publish every year a list of the enemies of the internet the new list is coming up on March 12th were they against cyber censorship and In March 2011 we had as enemies of the internet Saudi Arabia Burma China, North Korea Cuba Iran with Backistan Syria Turkmenistan in Vietnam. You can also see the list of the countries under surveillance Where we have, you know, Bahrain Belarus Egypt Eritrea, but also Democratic countries such as France or Australia I mean, I guess you all have in mind the three strikes low in France, which is one of the reason why the country was Was on this list. Okay, I will have to to make it short so this is a map that Help us visualize the way of these countries are and clearly the new list is going to be updated For for this for this next word egg and cyber censorship Another thing that we do is very important is the advocacy work for jailed or harassed bloggers and media under pressure So we can launch on awareness campaigns or relay some campaigns that are that do already exist like resin How that we in in Syria. We did release a campaign that was Drafted by one of her of her friends for you shareable. We we also Created a campaign and we try to relay it as much as possible in Internationally, this is an example of an online demonstration. We held in online actually in 2009 we Offered people to actually choose which country they wanted to demonstrate in This one is example of Burma and people would choose between different slogans So that's what that's it. We have a tourism campaign I will put some material here for those who wants some postcards and so on I Don't know if you can read the slogan from here, but this is about Vietnam And it says fuck human rights book of vacation in Vietnam The idea is not to call for a boycott of tourism in Vietnam Of course not but we just want tourists to be aware of what is going on in the country and how repressive the regime is This is also one of our actions We have occupied embassies Tourism agency in the past we are usually arrested but doesn't last very long This is in front of the Syrian embassy. It's an action we took in last May for WordPress freedom day and We as you can see we launched some painting on the walls of the Syrian embassy in Paris and the slogan was it's not It's not blood, but ink that should be spilled We are denouncing the arrest the killings and the censorship happening in the country It was very well covered by the media and we got a good feedback from Syrian activists We're telling us that they needed more this kind of actions We will also provide financial judicial material assistance to netizens their families media online I think my colleague Gregor we tell you more about it later And this is also in Haiti a few days after the earthquake We were able to set up a media center for journalists and anyone who was interested in information Sharing and a mobile cyber cafe that was going from one came to another so that refugees could have information The idea was to support the relief efforts and and continue to to to spread information about where to find water and you know Many other important issues We also Gregor we tell you more about it But we also provide training guides and tools to help defeat censorship and better understand online security We also support online media and websites under pressure for reporting sensitive news We have denounced the pressure against WikiLeaks supporters And and the treatment reserve to Bradley Manning We also lobby government to present to prevent them from passing a dangerous load that could have some bad Consequences for online free speech and we raise awareness on corporate responsibility issues I would have liked to have more time to talk about it, but I'm happy to continue this conversation later We were amongst first one to denounce Yahoo's involvement into the shitao case in China when Yahoo gave some information that helped sentence shitao To ten years in jail and we have done a lot of pressure on companies to make sure that it would be held accountable For their activities. We currently support the global online freedom act that has been introduced in the US and Hopefully coming soon a new European version of this bill with stronger Let's say stronger options for export control of material that can be used for surveillance in countries where it's used against dissidents and Just to give you an idea of How much people were for us? We are headquarters in Paris It's about 30 people but we can rely on the network of 140 correspondents worldwide We have a network of partners local organizations in Belarus in Democratic Republic of Congo in Latin America I mean we have about ten of us local Organizations that work with us. We also work with other NGOs that are specialized on human rights and and other issues And of course we have underground contacts activists members of civil society and so on and we currently developing a network Paralympic to this network of journalist correspondents We want to develop a network of netizens correspondents for RSF net For advocacy and lobbying we also have representatives in Brussels in Washington and branches in 10 countries plus a legal committee that help us Draft its policy help us send observers to bloggers and journalists trial Also have some publications on North Korea organized crime a handbook for bloggers and cyber dissidents that need a serious updating Gregor we tell you about it and here it is We're just gonna tell you a little bit more about an upcoming project. We have and I think we would like to Get your help on this Gregor And just to let you know Gregor is in charge of all our cyber censorship issues and specifically of this project He's gonna tell you about so as Lucy explained reporters without borders has been doing a lot of things and We have been studying the censorship and cyber censorship for now maybe more than 10 years and Back in 2010 In Paris we created the first physical shelter dedicated for bloggers and journalists was basically a room in our office in Paris with three different computers We set we set it up on those computers Tor specific VPN we there was a Firefox with the The fancy extension that help you to remains on animals when you're going on the web and In this shelter we also We had a lot many handbooks We provided to people who came in the shelter for example Security in the box or the the very good handbook how to bypass some cyber censorship and So that's what we were doing in the in shelter. This was only a physical room and We decided to To do more than that because for example if you were a blogger in the iron or in China And if you need to install Tor VPN on your Computer you can just take the plane Come to Paris and ask a reporter without border. Okay. I need a guide and so we decided to move to do to move on On the web the first thing we decided to do is Actually, it's a part of the evolution of our mandate we We want to create a cyber shelter. What is a cyber shelter? It's It's a website on which we're going to publish Some sort documents for example blogger in China wants to publish something on his blog about the the the milk the milk case He published this he goes in jails and the blog post is erased from the web. What we are aiming to do is to get The blog post has been published and published This post on our website so we are going to fetch and gather many documents like that and Publish them and translate them because this is very important for us to explain that in China you can go to jail because you just You just Publish something on on milk So we are going to translate those documents to publish them in Chinese Translate in French in English and we hope later in Arabian in Burmese in everything So we have to find those documents and How are we going to do as Lucy explained? We have many people on the ground But we we think that anyone can give us documents like that. So Beside the website there will be a kind of vault where people will be able to Give us Documents that could be a picture Video or blog post anything and people will be able to give us those documents in a in an animal way So when we have those documents, we're going to check what happened. We are going to Ask to our contacts on the ground To tell more about this specific case and once we think everything is okay We will publish this on the website and if the author of the blog post want to remain anonymous because It will be you will have more and more problem Even if we publish the is his post we are going to act as an editor We are going to assume the legal responsibility for what the guy has written or for the picture to cover the video he did and So there is a We want to raise awareness on these cases and we want to spread the word because For us In an ideal stick world the guy who brought on the milk in China his post has to be Has to be if you're in China you must you must have access to this so we are going to to to do technical stuff to To spread our websites. I mean we are going to massively mirror our website so we are working on that actually and We are going to need a lot of help in order to to mirror our website and to to massive to to copy all those documents so We are also providing trainings as I told just before in our Back in 2010 in the in our shelter in our physical shelter So we gave handbooks and different tools and we explained to the people who came how they could use it for example There were a group of Iranian bloggers that was in Paris. They were in Paris and we we we held them to to discover the the stools and Last March on the 12th of March from this year in Geneva The Swiss section of reporters without borders. It marked in part with telecomics. I guys I don't know if there are any of you in the in the room They they organized it wasn't actually training, but it was very very interesting because It was an event where journalists and bloggers meet Journalist needs second version tools they need to To protect the sources so they need to know how they can do that So they need technical skills, but journalists don't always as those technical skills And people like the guys from telecomics hackers. They do have that So what they did in Geneva they invited those two group of people and they they make them meet an exchange So that's what we're going to do more and more for example the in February in February this year in Paris we will Do this experience again on the 25th of February? We are going to organize an event with journalists and hackers and if you are in Paris under 25 25th of February you are very welcome So during this event we want those people To exchange and we want to because there is a problem with journalists We want to To raise their awareness We want to explain them that they really really need to protect their sources They can't just send email to people on the ground Because email is not sexual they can't exchange Sensitive information they have to know that if you are using for example Skype in Some countries Skype can be dangerous for the guy you're talking with so we want to do that also and So since we are talking about web, we had to to put a Lolcat image This is a whole project beside the cyber shelter this beside the trainings We also want to be able to provide to journalists and netizens and blockers. We want to be able to provide them tools like Tor and we are working on our own anonymous VPN. So We want to provide that we want to provide them the tools That could help them to be anonymous. So for example We want to provide them live CD or live Linux system on use be key We want to spread handbooks and for example true quick tools or the guide I mentioned how to bypass cyber censorship and There's something we want to do want to Provide security during them. I don't know if you've seen that during the last election in Russia There were many website that has been under DDoS attacks Because the the press the paper in Russia all the different People were talking on the web and the web was the only place where there were free information so Websites went until DDoS attacks and we want to be able to provide them Secure thing for example, we are going to mirror to set up many mirror for a Russian website we are working with This is going to happen in March and we are already working on that and The last things we want to do in this project is We we have a specific budget We have a specific fund in order to give dedicated grants for netizens and logger with these grants We are going to be able to buy them computers or cell phone or For example, web server if they need more powerful web servers in order to host their website or to host any Any tools they can they can work on So in order to do that we really a small NGO so we really need you We know people like you who have technical skills in order to help us to set up mirror. We need people who know how to Raise our visibility on on the internet or the visibility or our campaign of the visibility of the campaigns of our partners we need also insiders in Such in companies that cooperates with internet censorship. I don't want to mention the name But you know the you know some name of the companies I'm talking about and we need whistleblowers And then we need because this is also something we are working on We need the help of people who of a jurist who could help us to monitor what What is happening in different countries and who could help us to to analyze the growing number of flows that we Internet and who could help us to to to make some different proposition to the country who want to to provide Lows that are not very good for the freedom on the web so If you're a tech guy What we need We need for example, we need to know how a country can Organize is national network to to to to make the censorship more easily So we need people on the ground who could help us to carry test or we need people who knows to how to make an n-map stuff or stuff like that we also need To know which communication Tools are safe. Can we use Skype in China? So that's not a real question Can we use RSC? Can we use Google look should we use PGP mails because? So in some case PGP can be dangerous because if the only one if you are the only one in China using PGP So you're just saying the government the Chinese government. Hey, I'm using BGP and maybe my mail is dangerous. So come up to my house and pick me So we need people who could help us to know which is the right tool for those To communicate with our people on the ground We also need people who could help us to to To make a better handbooks because for example, I got it right here As I told you we are working on the internet since more than 10 years and we We have a many publication for example in 2005 we Published this this is handbooks for bloggers on cyber dissidents and if you read it there are many many interesting thing But I think for example the third chapter is Quite out to date. So we need people to help us to to have better handbooks for people for the people that need that and if you have a server somewhere and if you want to help us for our cyber shelter project or if you want to help us to To duplicate website that we have targeted that We know that in next March in Russia. We'll have many problems We need people with server who can do a W gate or who can use a std track or I think we need people in order to mirror out these websites and if you have any other ideas just tell us So we need also skills because We have a lot of campaign and we are going to show you at the end of the presentation our new campaign so We need people who can help us to spread the word with those messages with our messages or with the messages of the other pen other NGO we are working with and Even if you are about to launch a Communication campaign we can also help you we have a network where we have people on the ground So we can help you we need Twitter star or Facebook stars that that could just publish the messages on their walls or that could just tweet or retreat our own messages and And I think that's it Yeah, well we're coming to the end of this presentation because I think that time is running out if you want to keep touch with us here is how you can and you can of course come Talk to us after this presentation And we're gonna end with a campaign a very short video campaign less than one than one minutes that We wanted to show you it's not finished yet.  It's a campaign that is On Syria denouncing the surveillance the arrest and and the extent of the century censorship in Syria And it plays around the well-known Theory application that exists for iPhones you will you will understand once you see it It's still very slow. We have I mean we have some editing to do on the video It's gonna be launched next week So it's not finished yet But we really wanted to give you as a heads up and show you as a kind of of campaign that that we we do And we need technical skills Okay Sorry, okay in the meantime Why we're setting up the notebook to show the movie if you have any questions Please walk up to the microphone and I see there people at the microphone already. So We have no questions from the internet at this point. Can we please first start with the first question from over there? Hi again, right talk Concerning your I Concerning your your call for participation at the end. There was this other talk at the 1130 your revolution just got I think Which was done by a member of telecomics and a member of geeks without borders And in a way, they just presented what what you seem to to need so they can provide and they do provide Exactly that kind of technical assistance you're calling for so I wonder whether you already tried to talk to them or yeah We that's a great thing about the CCC is you meet a lot of people that work on Similar issues and we've made contact with a lot of people who are as you say Involving in projects that are similar to ours and and we're definitely up for working together and see how we can channel all this Energy and good work and good practices because that's exactly what we're here for so yeah We're thank you and and if others want to to come and see us afterwards We're you know, we're happy to continue the conversation after a CCC of course Thanks. Thank you. Okay next question from over there, please. Hi. I Wonder if you know about the Turkish journalist Ahmed shik And his book imams army He was preparing this book and he was put into prison and the prosecutor tried to confiscate all digital copies of the book draft as a result it was leaked and published signed by several authors and I thought you might be interested in Translating it for your shelter because it's available only in Turkish And it's about a religious sect gulan sect in police department Absolutely, that's exactly the kind of content that we would be interested in in publishing and and translating because as Gregor was saying before Usually when when we take action and we denounce You know the fact that blogger was sent to jail for ten years in Vietnam You the article itself doesn't make it to the general public So we want to translate it publish it and regarding Turkey. We do a lot of work of monitoring We have several fact-finding missions the last one was in in September I believe Because there's a lot of problems with express freedom in the country and online freedom So we follow very very closely these issues and you know, this is a good idea for for a content publishing. So, thank you Okay I'd say one question from over here and then we're going to show the movie Hi, I'm one of the hackers of the tour project and So one thing that I've noticed is that many people in this space try to provide guides So for example freedom house and internews and all these other people and one problem is that they don't know what the fuck They're talking about and so it's really important to not be like them And the way to do that is to work with people who write the software But also to always reject proprietary software when it is used in places where people's lives are in danger and Also to follow the money to see why people Advocate for certain things and to see which properties those things have So using a VPN that's run by reporters without borders in a place like Syria sounds like a death sentence to me Whereas it sounds perfectly fine for say the United States in certain cases And as far as all the technical questions about IRC or Google talk or things like this It's really difficult to know how those protocols can be safe in a world with data retention And so for almost all of these things the question is why not always anonymize those communication systems because it seems like data retention poses a threat especially in the West and Especially if we are the support systems for people in so-called non-free countries Because we will be incriminated for helping those people unharmed like the Syrian government actually Reaches out to countries in the West and kills people in the West So it's extremely important that people don't think that they're safe here simply because of that So I wonder how will you engage? The greater community to ensure that the guides you published are really peer-reviewed and you don't repeat the mistakes of groups Like the ones I mentioned now, of course, I think it's a very important Thank you for making this point because that's absolutely crucial I think we're very aware of that and that's exactly why we come here and when we telling you we need to update this guide We need your input because of course it's it's it's I mean what is at stake is people's lives and and safety So we're very aware of the of the importance of of such of such tools and so on we have very good contributors to our Book which is really outdated. So that's why we need we need your we had Dan Gilmore We had Ethan Zuckerman not Villeneuve and people like this So clearly this was written by people who knew what they were talking about and we want to continue this way And so yeah, so please help us and we also very aware of the fact that one tool that can be used in one country can be Absolutely deadly in another one. So that's where we have a lot of educational work to do and not only towards bloggers But also towards journalists who work in I mean working safe countries and when they go Underground they don't take all the precautionary measures. They should take so We we're gonna we're working on it and we're gonna try to see how we can indeed Explain that that it's always a case-backing situation, but that anonymizing everything is definitely Something important and in our in our shelter in Paris. We have of course a link to tour We have a lot of of you know We we try to make people very aware of what you do. I mean, it's already very Very famous and you do an amazing an amazing work and we're happy to relay what or does It's not only about technical skills We need people with real strong technical skills and what we can do As people will contact we are in contact with journalists. We have to explain them that those people's tools There are there are here for a reason and they should use those tools and in different countries You have to use different tools. So that's why we need feedback and we can Give this feedback to journalists who are on the ground in those countries and one last thing We are also aware of the fact that there are many good guys out there and they are available on our cyber shelter under shelter in Paris You know like security in a box and others that do I've done also great great books and The idea with our books is also to gather all this Important skills and knowledge but what we what we're gonna add also our testimonies from bloggers and journalists on the ground to explain exactly how they use these tools and how It changes also because that's gonna be the challenge to keep it updated and the the the idea of Making it a wiki is also to make sure that it's gonna be collaborative And it's gonna be updated as much as possible because I mean you know that better than I do things change very very fast online Shall we so shall we show you So again, it's it's pretty slow. So you will see a bit some you know, the reason is gonna be improved But at least just to give you an idea It's extreme Okay, I think this just a teaser And you will be able to see this movie In next year and at the beginning of the next year. Sorry for the problem Okay Well, then I'm sorry that we don't have time for any more questions. Sorry for the guys waiting at the microphones But the herald for the next talk is already there and ask me to stop at this point Can I please ask you to use the feedback system for this talk take out the trash even though you didn't take it in And let's give a warm round to applause