Welcome to the K-12 online conference. My name is David Jakes and I'm here to talk about reimagining the spaces in which we learn This presentation is broken into four videos and Previously I've talked to you about the mindset around that or this associated with creating new spaces We also talked about the landscape of learning space design Which was which focused on understanding the shifts and changes in learning and how spaces can respond to that and then in this video we're going to be addressing process because you need a process and Learning spaces as we mentioned is is predicated on the on the thought that what do you want the student learning experience to be and how Do we shape spaces accordingly and so that requires a thoughtful and dedicated and intentional step-by-step Process that can help you do that and that process is design I'll explore that more with you in a bit But first some language and I've been working with you over the course of the first two videos In understanding a new kind of vocabulary associated with space and so we want to continue that work and deepen it So the first idea is that spaces should exist as an ecology in other words are connected and that spaces should not exist in isolation So learning spaces when you design them you just don't design classrooms But you want to design a spatial ecology and how do the auto all these pieces fit together to support the definition or the development of that Learning experience as you've defined. So there's classrooms. There's libraries. There's maker spaces. There's informal spaces think hallways here And then there's and for all those four spaces and there's probably more But there is a physical face-to-face kind of context and a digital context that can exist with all those spaces so the first idea the first notion of a more developed kind of broader view of learning spaces that they exist in ecology and they all work together to accomplish that manifestation of that student learning experience that you want The second idea is that is that spaces and at any one given time should be able to range across a Range of behaviors and what I mean by that is I want to think of attention right on one side We've got academic on the other side. We've got social and so spaces should you know Any space should be able to negotiate that or support any kind of behavior across that range from academic to social It's an interesting design idea. Okay, likewise, it should support a range from formal to informal interactions so in other words if you have a library and You've got two or three classes that might be scheduled into that library. That's a very formal kind of experience as Opposed to where the library is open perhaps after school or during the day where kids come in and Self-select into spaces and self-select the kind of learning that they want to do That's much more of an informal kind of an arrangement. That's not game. That's not scheduled or something like that Spaces can also or should support individual to collaborative work So in other words think of a classroom where you might have students engaged Individually and then they may come together with the peers to engage in some kind of collaborative kind of effort Along the same lines you have analog to digital so we've got paper-based kind of experience traditional kinds of experience that range all the way to Digital kind of experiences with technology. So spaces should be able to support both very analog kinds of experiences and Experiences that allow us to make use of one-to-one technologies and things like that And then the final tension is an interesting one is that how does how does learning in the spaces in which kids learn? How does that look across a range from school to home and everywhere in between in the previous video I mentioned third places in those Informal social locations that kids inhabit like Starbucks beyond either school or home And so there's a tension there that where kids have a full range of abilities to inhabit different kinds of experiences In different kinds of spaces given any moment in time Let's continue with some more vocabulary All right, so we've got seven different ideas here first of all you've got flexible spaces and agile spaces the flexible space If you're if your classrooms flexible, then it means it can be reshaped quickly the Interesting idea about that is that that's typically associated with being able to rearrange furniture in sort of a horizontal plane And one of the things you should understand about or realize about new spaces that are designed is Height adjustable furniture Standing desks and things like that so we can talk about being flexible or being agile In either a horizontal plane or a vertical plane And what I mean by agile is if flexible is ability rearrange agility is ability to do it quickly or the velocity associated with it So you can have a flexible space really heavy furniture that you could move But it might not be very agile because you can't do it very quickly So the goal is to have a very flexible agile kind of space That allows it to be adaptive and there's two ways to look at this one is that adaptive is is spaces a combination of being flexible flexible and agile, but also Realizing that spaces are designed based on the student experience Then in ten years or maybe in five years that is your expectations for what you want the student experience to be change Your spaces are still capable and being enough to be able to Support that so they're flexible and then agile enough in other words are future-proofed, right? So we want to think about spaces and create spaces that have a timeline Probably a 15 to 20 years literally where there are viable spaces that can morph and adjust as the institutions Values and beliefs are reshaped around learning what learning means. It's too expensive when you're talking about spatial redesign To look at a time frame. That's less when considering that that furniture loan in your typical 800 square foot classroom in the United States may cost anywhere from Maybe between 12,000 and 25,000 US dollars. So you have to Be wise that's why we need a process for this and creating adaptive Spaces that are flexible and agile are part of that certainly technological spaces. What kind of technology do you have? That's that's a given And then that technology allows spaces to be interconnected. So I'm really intrigued as a designer about the role in the linkage between physical Spaces that are maybe school based or beyond That are linked with digital spaces that support the work and one provocation I have for you to think about is When will the notion of a digital space in the learning that takes place there be of equal importance to schools as the physical space is now We're not there yet. Certainly. Hopefully we can make steps and go in that direction the intentional component of this of spaces that is Inamently and inherently linked to the student learning experience. That's a given and that makes in doing that Goes a long way in achieving everything that we've talked about at this point and then finally Spaces should be personalized and in other words, they should allow for personal interpretations of how the space Supports learning. So as you walk into a space, you know, the students should be able to Pick and choose not on perhaps all the time But it's sometimes they should be able to arrange a space according to how they think it supports their learning You know grant them agency and the ability to to define their own space from time to time And that's and that's a big part of being flexible and agile about a new kind of mindset and lens for how space supports learning So given that let's let's just jump into this into designing learning spaces and here's the process and we see a couple pieces of some icons there we're going to fill this in so the very first part of Spatial design involves discovery. Okay, and what I mean by that is is that? Discovery is a process that's inclusive that asks the right questions that explores what learning looks like and this might mean talking with Students talking with parents talking with teachers talking with admins talking with faculty talking with maintenance people cafeteria people everybody and so when you start to design learning spaces a Process begins with a complete discovery of all the information surrounding the provocation in this case It's maybe changing a classroom or changing classrooms. Well mind that look like so you have to talk with everybody on that Okay, in this means that where design comes into play is having a Group of people or a designer help you with this in terms of supporting the process that encovers the right information So you just don't want to go by furniture. Okay, don't do that Please don't do that engage in a process where you first talk to everybody about Learning what you want learning to be okay? And then that from there what you do is then you take that and you use an information to define Your expectations for learning and these may be five to six statements ten statements that direct what learning should look like So at this particular point, excuse me You've gone through a process where you've talked with everybody uncovered all the really rich information about learning in its Possibilities and its opportunities and you shape that shape that down into declarative statements that provide a framework Literally the DNA of of your student learning experience And what that does is provides you with direction and intent in terms of how spaces can be designed From that the next step is ideation and creating potential ways in which you can take those Six to ten factors that you want learning to be and shape them into new space spatial realities so in other words now we start to lay out space designs, okay, and what we do is we create prototypes and Prototypes are plausible futures, and they're not perfect But they are good enough to be put into play and put under pressure with kids and teachers and see what comes out of that Now you can have one prototype or a number of prototypes But the but the important thing to remember here is that this process assumes that you're going to prototype something and test it Please do not rush to solution when it comes to learning spaces The financial investment is way too much to be able to do that So what you have to do is take your time engage in a process do it step by step And you have to prototype your different classrooms or prototype your library or or you have to take steps To test your ideas that result from the ideation process and finally when you get those prototypes in What you're going to do is you're going to implement that once you come back with the prototypes okay, you're going to you're going to implement that prototype put it into play and Continue to test that and what happens then is as you ideate and create prototypes and put them into play in schools Then that arrow means that this is an iterative process So at the end of the first prototype after end of the first implement I'm sorry after end of the first implementation you might see that prototype one is your is your Best option out of three perhaps you go back and continue to ideate to make it better And you put it through create a second prototype And then implement that second prototype and you keep doing this until you get to the point Where you feel comfortable with that your solution can be taken to scale and that you know you've done the testing you've done the Investigation you've done the observations that tell you that your design is a solid one and one that will work for your school So the process of design in terms of spaces Begins with discovery where you collect all the information and that information is then defined into a set of what's called design Drivers that are the DNA of in the framework that provides your expectations for learning you take those Those ideas then those drivers and start becoming very creative in what they could look like and how could they can be shaped From those ideas you assemble those into prototypes, which are plausible futures of what the space could look like You might have three prototypes You might have two and you put those into play and you implement those with kids and under the pressure of Teaching and learning and you learn from that and you go back and iterate and ideate and say this didn't work How might we rethink what didn't work into a new strategy and build that into a second prototype and test and continue The process till we get to a final solution that represents the design that we can take to scale So it looks like this take a look at this classroom I'm not going to mention where this is but this is a typical kind of classroom with lots of kids And flexible seating. It's got some really nice day lining that window It's got some high ceilings. The lighting is your typical fluorescent Kind of condition we see in schools and this is this is a in my experience of very traditional kind of space And so again, what do we want the experience to be? You know, that's the provocation. That's the challenge So here's discovery So we start asking kids and we start doing visitations and observations and a lot of ethnography techniques About what this space could look like and or what the experience could be and we do that with kids We then do that with teachers and there's a wide range of different opportunities that we can do with teachers to say These are the possibilities of What spaces could look like so we're looking with teachers administrators looking and we're working with? All staff are working with parents But we're what we're doing is or we're putting them through a series of design techniques that will allow us to understand What they want for the student learning experience and when you get all that information we go to a defined process in the defined process then Looks like this where we come up with in this case a seven different design drivers that become part of the everyday experience and That spaces are existing in ecology and then there's virtual connections to learning that that we shift from a classroom To a studio model and that we use this space to inform our culture of spaces encourage Everyone to rethink spaces we build in choice We build the connected spaces and that there is a definite invitation into the space and we're thoughtful and creative about how we Invite learners into a space. What does the space inform the learner to the intent of learner learning? That's expected as you walk in that's called a threshold experience and so We took all that information we got by talking with people and engaging them in different creative ways And then what we did is we took that information and shape it into a direction a series of what's our call design drivers That form the DNA and the framework for design and then what we're going to do is we're going to take that and take the available space And now start working with different potential Arranges we're going to start thinking about how do we connect and start thinking about invitation and connecting this and technology and culture And start reshaping this space. This is one of their a potential prototype for For one of the spaces and this is also a steel case implementation. It's really a terrific With a wide wide variety of furniture that gives multiple kinds of ways in which to interact you see Whiteboards on the left wall and that are portable Those of those steel case verb series and then the right you see some traditional whiteboard space in the back You might you see some campfire series. Those are those are Let enough those those they're like l-shaped gray things that you can pick up and move and reshape into a Temporary sort of semi-private space They are transparent enough that teachers can see through to manage students and so on it allows kids to define space So this might be one potential option as you start ideating and thinking about ways in which Spaces can be created. You can also use the same furniture to create this I'm more of a fishbowl kind of activity and you can also create something like this and that really the combinations and the arrangement of these things It goes on and on and So what we're doing here is is we're starting to think about and being real creative about the way in which These spaces can be created to support the development of the expectations as the as defined by the Drivers of learning so that continues on we work with teachers and now you see the teachers actively using in Planning using knowing the fact that we've got This furniture in this space and we know what learning we want learning to look like. How can we create? Different kinds of designs that allow us to to achieve that so you see teachers now becoming the designers I talked about in an earlier video And that's an important thing and they're actually working to craft a set of different kinds of spatial layouts Five to six perhaps that they can begin with to Understand so that they can put that into play and prototype those designs in that space So what the teachers are doing here is they're actually using that steel case furniture And that's one of the prototypes and so what they're doing is coming up with different kinds of arrangements That they think would work for them and what they're going to do is then test those Designs with kids to see what worked and so now teachers not only be our Educators, but they're now become designers and they're going to go put these into playing and test them and they're becoming Ethnographers so we see this really this really dramatic shift in what teachers can become To think about this educator designer Ethnographer is a really robust kind of role for teachers and something that helps them To become much more nuanced and capable of designing spaces that work for kids So right there down here. They're developing those prototypes. You see here's another Example of that and and here is another example. We want teachers to begin learning how to sketch You know, this is a prototype, right? So we don't want to have to do really really deep diagrams But what we want to do is sketch it out how it might look given the furniture that's in place This is an example of in the first in the upper left one two three and four You have an individual work where then then the tables and the furniture is assembled in the collaborative pairs of two Then the collaborative pairs of four and then whole class instruction and so when you're talking about a flexible agile space in a typical class period of say 50 minutes Think about the opportunity and then in the pedagogical process that are required Instructional methodologies that are required and the understanding that's required to take a Space and have four different spatial arrangements within the context of the of a single class parade That's when we start talking about things and really cool ways to design new conditions for learning when the spaces are flexible agile and adaptive enough to be able to support Multiple arranges when the single learning period and so once we go through all these prototypes and seeing what works and what doesn't You know, we go back and we test and implement We continue to build it out and one of the things that I'm very very big on is is creating a playbook In in in a shared kind of understanding across or across teachers of how spaces can work So what if what if you had a pilot group or a prototype group of ten teachers and they all came up with With 40 different kinds of designs and tested those and could you assemble what worked and what didn't work and and actually create a Playbook on the way in which we have a cultural Way to capture and describe How spaces support learning in our school and it literally becomes an instruction manual as much as I hate to say that But it becomes a way in which all teachers can share their expertise a way you build a community based Expectations for teaching and learning in space and where you start to develop a culture where space has become the third teacher of kids and so the process itself is One that's And we talked about the process and go back and think about that it's inclusive, right that discovery process at the beginning Ask everybody asks everybody to participate and contribute their ideas and the focus of that then is a focus on learning and out of that Discovery approach the definition part of the process defines that focus on learning by by creating spatial design drivers The framework the DNA that I mentioned From there, you know, we want to protect take those ideas in ideate We want to create prototypes and we want to put them into play We want to test them and evaluate our best guesses at how these spaces could support learning and we want to get better at it And so that that to do that we have to iterate and just continually going through this cycle of constant continual improvement The one thing that I do want to mention I forgot to mention earlier is that don't engage In spatial design without considering the needs of teachers we need some professional development here and For example, you would never think of going into a one-to-one Program and releasing that without considering professional development opportunities for teachers and how they might learn to become better educators With the use of technology But what you see in spaces and we with spatial change is that the changes are made and there's no consideration of learning for teachers to understand how that happens In a process that's defined and created for learning space change means that you have to help Teachers understand those shifts that are necessary So moving forward with that it means that you are intentional about professional development because if you're not there's no guarantee that They'll take that flexible natural furniture and they'll just rearrange it back into rows where kids are sitting in rows So spatial change guarantees one thing the kids are going to be sitting in more comfortable seating And so you have to work hard at at preparing teachers for the changes think about the opportunity to have four different Arrangements in the single clasp read that's disruptive. That's pretty cool though And so helping them understand is very meaningful in in in of course essential and if you do that You start building up your culture. You start to begin Crafting a new kind of experience for teaching and learning and that's what we're looking at here with spatial change So up next we're going to be talking about the impact of all this I hope you enjoyed this series up to this point and I hope you join me for the fourth video


Hi everyone, my name is Tanzeela Sheikh. I am a correspondent in exchange for media. Today we have Abhishek Daanguli, the managing director of Puma India Southeast Asia with us to talk about the recent developments in Puma India and a lot of things when it comes to advertising in marketing. So Abhishek, first of all, you know, thank you very much and welcome you exchange for media and thank you for talking to us. I just wanted to know that Puma has been there in this country since a very long time and it's a very known and a global brand. How do you keep up with, you know, being relevant to the different kind of audiences? Well, thanks, pleasure joining you on this chat. Well, I think it's a very pertinent question because as a brand and staying relevant to the audience is extremely important because that's the only way in which the audience engages with you and consumers that ways keep coming back to the brand because, you know, if one has to run a profitable company, you need consumers who are engaged and keep coming back to you, right? That's the, you know, as simple. So various ways. I think there is no not one answer to this, but I'll just try to pick various parts of this puzzle. First and foremost, first and foremost, if I I'll start with the marketing funnel. So then consumer is discovering the brand and you want to be, you want to be considered by the by the consumer. So you need to appeal to the audience in a in a in a platform or a language that the consumer feels is relevant. Today, you know, the times of just putting forth your product in front of the consumer and expecting the consumer to buy is gone because the consumers have evolved, right? So you need to have a story or a narrative about the brand, which is very, very, you know, relatable to the consumer. So it starts with having the right kind of a brand approach and campaigns flow from there and contents actually then turn get churned out with this type of a thought process. And that's what we have done in India.  And I'm connecting with the Indian audience is always required to speak the language that the audience understands in India. And if you look at right from the beginning, when we started our journey, the kind of influencers, key opinion leaders, brand ambassadors we have engaged with have had a wide appeal and also either a wide appeal or a very or have a followership which is which is very compelling. So that's what we have done across sports, culture, music, art, because we are as much, we're just not a sports performance brand, we come from sports and sports is critical to our brand, but we've also got into culture and streets and today that's what sportswear brand, you know, it is also encompassing that part of lifestyle. So we have first and foremost to stay relevant, we've had the right brand partners and key opinion leaders where it has been without without Koli and, you know, on the on the sport side to having Royal Challengers Bangalore to Sunil Chetri, Mary Kom and I can go on and this is the current list in the past also we've done the same thing. Also on the entertainment side we have Karina Kapoor Khan to Anushka Sharma. And also mind you, let's not forget YouTubers, Instagrammers, content creators who are today talking to the audience in their language which is relatable across various, you know, segments. So that's one side on the marketing front then to be relatable also the channels play a very, very important role. So whether even you walk into our store, the experience that you get and how the right from the team to the overall look and feel to the experience of touching, feeling and experiencing the brand and the product plays a huge role in engaging with the audience. Also whether it is online, you know, online also it's not just a convenience medium today, it's also quite immersive. So whether it is social digital channels or is it e-commerce channels you need to create the right experience for the consumers. So all in all keeping the relatability to what you said of the brand is of paramount importance for us and that has been a part of our journey and will continue to be, you know, we will continue to evolve but the point of staying relevant is very, very important. Absolutely, you know, the thing where I asked about staying relevant is there are a lot of brands who are trying to understand this new power purchaser, power purchaser, people who are the gentsies, you know, and that is where they're having a problem in order to, you know, tap onto those consumers and these consumers are very like, how do I say, they go for relatability. So I wanted to understand how Puma is trying to tap into these consumers and what are you guys doing and you know, what other brands are doing wrong is you could speak about that. Well, I'll restrict it to what we are doing and I think with reasonable success as you can see on the business front. Well, whether it is the Gen Y or the Gen Z, we're seeing that every age group comes with it, a very, very different, you know, expectation, behavior, their approach is very different, their expectations, even the brands that they buy into or engage with is very, very different and we are keeping a constant eye on that. So one of the things if I have to generalize it for the interest of this conversation would be that creating platforms which are expression platforms. So the young audience wants to express and be a part of the community. It is not, you know, nobody today wants to be pushed into something and you know, you cannot come from a, you know, high ground and say, hey, this is what it is and this is how we are. But I think brands which are able to provide the platform where consumers can come and exchange and express and connect and also build communities in the process or how do you really, if there is an existing community, how do you enter that community and deliver a message which again is both ways. So having a two-way approach which digital gets in is very different from how it was in traditional medium of advertising. And that's something that is very relevant with the young audience. Also, you know, second thing with which we see with young audiences that, you know, they're also looking for purpose and brands with purpose resonate very, very strongly. Now, whether the purpose is around social or causes or purpose around environment, you know, around the planet and you know, brands with sustainability mission, they're not just greenwashing but really having very clear sustainable objectives and missions and strategies resonate a lot with the young audience. And that is very, very important today, so which we also believe in our strategy. And yeah, and then third thing is convenience. Today, because of various opportunities, you know, disruptions like quick commerce and e-commerce as a whole to the payment mechanism and the digital payment structures which have come out which has made life so much more easy. And the young audience today has, is starting with this convenience. They didn't have to go through the journey which a lot of us had to go through that we got convenience later in our lives. They're starting with convenience. So when you start with having an ecosystem of convenience that you don't need to step out for a lot of things from home and things just get, you know, courier to you and ship to you. So that's a very, very different mindset. And then brands have to ensure that they provide convenience, convenience of the core you know, element that consumers want. So, you know, I can go on and on on this. But I will take that bit of yours when you were saying that, you know, the Gen Z or consumer lot is going for relativity as well as community building and purpose driven advertising or marketing or, you know, the brand they want to be connected with. Apart from that, let's, I want to. And seeking convenience. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, in the first point or, you know, while you were answering my first question, you also spoke about the different brand ambassadors that you have had. So recently in the month of December, you have had a Nushka Sharma and I think in February, you also had a Harman Preet call. Both are women. So I wanted to understand, you know, what sort of messaging that Puma wants to, you know, convey to the consumers.  Well, our approach as a brand is that, you know, extremely on one side, we are very, very gender agnostic. So, and women are 50% of the population. And hence, sometimes when people ask, oh, do you have a strategy, I said, hey, I mean, that's 50% of the population. So of course, yes. And we're not doing this because we want to make a statement, you know. And then we've always been very focused on having the right kind of key opinion leaders associate with us on the women's front. You know, look at our partnership with Maricom, one of the legends of Indian sport, she has been with us for a long, long time. Yes, of course, off late, we've signed up more, because we are as our brand is becoming larger, we're also trying to be more relevant to various different segments to start to how you started the conversation. And hence, now we are having the ability as well, to partner up with more and more, you know, athletes and entertainment and entertainers. And a lot of them happen to be women. And we firmly believe that as a brand, we want to provide women the platform to engage with us is the same logic. Look at our proper lady campaign, when you look up in the past, where we did that campaign, where we wanted to provide a platform for women to come and express making stereotype, because women in, especially in India and some of the traditional markets are always expected to follow a norm on a rule. And proper lady just breaks that rule. And that has stayed with us. That approach has stayed with us. If you look at our campaign, or how we engaged Harman and Harman start driving that, you know, cricket, look at thankfully, women's cricket is now getting a lot of attention. And now we are watching Harman Creed, and the likes of Spreethi Mandana and Harman Creed, and they are also becoming getting their view, which is great. And hence, also on the women's cricket side, we have like more than five, six athletes playing for the team. So what I'm trying to say is that it has always been a part of us. Yes, now being a larger brand, we always have the more resources to have more brand partners. And yeah, I mean, and we have a strong belief that the world is an equal opportunity, you know, cricket, you know, in everyone's game, it has for years been called as a gentleman's game. And we believe that that is changing, and that should change. We are trying to enable this change to become faster. So yeah. And otherwise, talking on the business run, women's category business is growing very fast, it's growing more than women. So because what's happening is women are also playing a lot of sport, women are now focusing a lot on their own fitness, and that's showing in our business as well. Absolutely. You know, I wanted to talk about David, navigate the conversation to business. So I wanted to understand, you know, after COVID, the post-COVID era, which is like last year and this year, a lot of brands or businesses are trying to get part of the 2019 numbers or pre-COVID numbers, whereas you have already crossed that. So what do you think, what are the three main strategies that you must have used in order to get it right? Let me put this into context that for the before COVID, we were in India for 13 years. Yeah. As much sales that we generated in those 13 years, it took us 13 years to add that much sales. And in the last three years, which included the COVID period, we have achieved that much more sales, right? So our sales has actually been double of pre-COVID times. And I would say things that we have done right to achieve that one is like, you know, the category trend, right? More people playing sport, more people working out, more people wanting a better version of themselves, and using fitness as a part of their well-being, mental and physical, right? Yeah. Then sportswear becoming more mainstream. Leisurewear is sportswear today. A lot of, you know, mainstream lifestyle products is sportswear. A lot of sports fashion coming to the fore. Sneakers are becoming a fashion collectible from the airport look to what people are wearing in offices to everywhere. You see our category growing very strongly. Now, that has really helped our growth. And yeah, what we have done right is, you know, always had a digital strategy, digital first strategy. And this is not because of the COVID. We've been around with our digital first approach for the last five, seven years, which is coming towards, which is providing a lot of results. The people had to really change strategies during COVID and adopt digital transformation. We didn't have to do that. We just dialed up because we already had a digital as a part of our strategy. We have a very consumer-centric approach, our direct-to-consumer approach, both online and offline has also helped. Some of the conversations and marketing we've already done. So I'm not going to repeat that has also helped our growth. And yes, I think I can think of these three, four reasons other than what is at an overall level happening to the category. Abhishek, I wanted to understand now. See, I've been having and I've been writing about the diet to entire cities, you know, becoming a huge part of any brand's journey these days. These are the regions, the Bharat region is basically a deep pocket region these days, if you see.  Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Tier two, tier three today, because of digital penetration is creating an aspiration. And with economic development, disposable incomes coming in. Third thing for our category relevance is that India is a very young demographic. And hence, you know, a lot of the young people have now aspiration in tier two, tier three, even tier four cities. And that's why it is generating demand. And what what brands have able to do brands and retailers are now approaching tier two, tier three with their own stores, and also e-commerce is helping just penetrate and serve this demand. Right. So this is a real, real phenomena that's happening because of the aspiration that tier two, tier three, and the disposable income to especially the hands of the young population. So what are we doing? We are opening more stores, as you can see very clearly from the number of stores that we have grown in the last two, three years. And we will continue to do that, get into newer markets and open stores so accessibility. E-commerce is really also helping us penetrate that because you know, e-commerce penetration is today in so many pin codes. We also work very closely in partnership with marketplaces who themselves are really fueling this fueling demand by providing for great service and availability of products to these tier two, tier three consumers. So that's and also we are spending marketing monies to attract the consumers attention and then keep engaging with them even on tier two, tier three cities. So overall, we are very excited. We believe that we are just getting started because further penetration of our category will happen in these markets. So what do you think what part of your business comes from these cities? Well, it depends on what you put as tier one and what you put as tier two over a period of time. If you take the top five, it's the way you see it. Like if you take if you take about the top cities out in the last two years, we have grown about four percentage points of our share from the non tier one markets. So clearly these markets are growing faster obviously because of low penetration in the past. Absolutely. So somewhere around 30 to like 35 percent. It's higher actually. It's higher because you also have to understand we today have almost 490 stores in and a lot of that actually is in tier two, tier three cities. So and now e-commerce has come has been like a trend. So all of it is actually more than that. Yeah. So yeah, coming to the conversation back again is that I wanted to ask you that e-commerce or digital or D2C platforms versus the stores, what do you think what if you could segregate the business that certain what part of your business comes from the e-commerce or what part of part of your business comes from the physical stores out there? So physical stores is about 45 percent of the business comes from online channels. Online channel also includes our own web store and shopping app and the marketplaces and that's the broad split I would say. And do you like do you foresee a future where you will see that you know more online purchases will happen? Well, yes. But the good thing is I would say two, three things here. Yes, of course online will grow today and e-commerce today has a reach of let's say even the horizontals have a reach of about 120 million. If you look at the projections, this is going to double very, very soon. So more and more people will shop on e-commerce platforms going forward. So definitely that will grow. But what is to be also kept in mind is that in India offline shopping is very, very important part of somebody's entertainment because of various today a family or a group of friends love going and shopping in a store because that's a part of their entertainment and then watch a movie, eat out, shop. So it will never go out of fashion and go out of sing. So hence as a brand is strongly also from a brand's perspective offline stores give a great opportunity to engage with the consumer at a much deeper level. E-commerce provides a lot of convenience and in stores you get a lot of opportunity to engage. So I think both of the channels are equally important and with penetration that we have been discussing into these markets I think even offline will grow very strongly. Abhishek I wanted to understand that a lot of brands out there are extensively using influencer marketing and I think Kuma also uses influencer marketing to a certain extent. So what do you think that does micro influencers really help in building your brand and really getting the revenue out or do you think that these micro influencers coming from tie to tie three cities are helping more and are connected more to their follower base? Well the truth lies in between to be honest like both are very very important. It also depends on what is your business scale. Now a business of our scale we as much benefit from our partnership with Virat Kohli as we benefit from a content creator who is on Instagram and you know so it really depends on the business scale. At our scale both are equally important but if I have to have draw one common thread on what's required as per me in having a very solid influencer strategy other than the choice selection execution and the kind of content which is you know very important but what is important is credibility and that credibility is super important. It should be real it should be really standing for what your brand stands for and then you know if your brand stands for this and that is credibility I think the consumers otherwise consumers especially young consumers see through this just on the face promotion work. So what part of your marketing budget goes into influencer marketing? How do you segregate like what you put in which bucket because like I said we have various types of influencers in terms of you know their followership we also have athletes entertainers so it's very difficult to club this and say this is entertainment this is influencer cost what is media cost what is content creation and production cost but all I can tell you is that for us it's a very important part of our brand marketing. Okay okay I want to understand since we are running out of time I wouldn't understand that what is the marketing budget for this year and what is the media mix that you are looking out for because I see that you are very strong on the digital front rather than TV or say print down there which is the larger traditional media you know mediums. So what do you think what is what is your media mix this year? Okay I'll definitely answer the second question the first question I'd like to know from you why do you want to know that what's our marketing budget why do you want to know because I want to know that you know such a big company how much do they invest in their market do they need to invest or what? Yeah I'll I'll not give you the right number and hence I will give you a number but I can say that look at the end of it like every resource in business it is not how much resource you have but what you do out of that resource. So on I say X number it really doesn't matter because honestly that X can really if deployed well and used well can be far more meaningful or if you have 10 X you might not be you know very effective with a much larger way so I really don't want to get into exact number and percentages but I can tell you that our choice of channel is digital and we believe that given the kind of demographic profile of our addressable market it is very very important that we stay that way. Yeah so Abhishek we were on that marketing budget as well as the media mix I wanted to understand where are you going in digital you know are you focusing on social media are you focusing on e-commerce platforms if you could you know segregate into that if you can go more into that because digital is vast. Yeah we're going every every channel which is relevant whether it is a search platform to social platforms to e-commerce platforms to broadcasting platforms OTTs yeah I think broadly even news platforms sports platforms. Yeah so we we we are approaching digital in a very very broad approach to digital yeah. I just have two more questions to go is that is there you know on your cards to invest in the in the upcoming sporting events like IPL or you know any other in the future in this year. A lot of them are ongoing. If you look at it why just cricket you know in football if you look at in the league two of the top teams Bangalore Football Club and Mumbai CTFC we are partnered up we are we are we have a partnership with Royal Challengers Bangalore then if you look at even running events on ground running events we've partnered up with the Delhi Half Marathon this year we've partnered up with a very interesting property called the Devil's Circuit which is an obstacle race which happens in multi cities about 10 cities very interesting platform for runners and overall those who various various sports we have we are we have a large list of on grassroots investments in in cricket football running grassroots investment in boxing so various sporting you know events we are already associated with it so it's not just athletes that that we engage with. So you will be in your association with RCB as well this year. Yeah yeah absolutely absolutely. Great is great is great is just the last question. We were also RCB WPL we we are a part of that as well so yeah. So that means that your marketing budget is segregated in a vast way where in you know sporting events is a part of it all these influence the outreach marketing outreach is part of it your you know your ambassadors where is they come from entertainment industry or the creating industry they are like that is also part of your marketing this thing and then you have digital also which is like you know a very vast channel where you have all these search based platforms e-commerce platforms your D2C platform so yeah it's going to be like a big budget for marketing if I'm not wrong because of the of the size of our business we have a very large marketing budget I'm not denying that okay great are you trying to open some new stores also this year apart from the 400 plus stores as well. Absolutely like we discussed year two year three cities are bringing up new opportunities in terms of new new streets new cities to open stores in and also even even more established cities have new malls coming up where we are opening stores so yes of course we will continue to invest in opening more stores and penetrating the market. Abhishek I have two questions one is that you know seeing the friend these days as a marketer I'm asking you not someone from Cuba so I would as a you know brand stakeholder I'm asking you is that you know there are a lot of brands who are instigating nostalgia there's so many brands we see out there the campaigns they are going back to what they were back in 90s or early 2000s so why do you think you know brands are following this trend whereas you know there is so much happening in the district. Well see today the thing is that heritage and going back in time is never it might seem very counterintuitive but even as trends and we are we're a lot into you know fashion trends as well so we see that fashion trends keep coming back they're often very cyclical and going back in time builds a lot of heritage value which even the youngest of the young consumers love and so that's very very I would say very important as a brand we do that we even from a product standpoint we bring out some of our heritage products and put modern progressive language to that and they're very popular so I would say that it's a very I would say it's a smart strategy because it follows what consumers want and consumers really want to look back into history and that's why brands do that. I wish there's a lot of conversation about inclusivity and you know the LGBTQAI plus about you know and brands like you are focusing more on them and you know trying to raise certain trying to you know blur certain boundaries so as you know I wanted to understand how Puma is contributing in that. Well I am a firm personally I'm a believer that we all have to be gender neutral or gender agnostic right the best form of diversity is not to treat people special or marginalize them and say that hey because you're XYZ I'm treating you like that. And I think that's the that's the best in the purest form of diversity that it doesn't matter right and I think organizations which end up doing that you know of course there is a reality that people have different preferences or genders have marginalized people in the past and that's the gross reality but I would say that as progressive companies I think it's our responsibility also not to do positive discrimination sometime because you know I'll give you example today let's say if somebody in the team knows that the reason the person is at a particular role is because of XYZ reason and not because of that person deserves it right. I think you're hitting on somebody's self-respect right so I think what we should all chase or we should all work towards is to create gender neutrality and becoming agnostic to the person's gender and preferences. Absolutely anything in particular that you the brand is doing or to you know take the stand? Well having inclusiveness in terms of again not by you know not because we are driven by a target but trying to create our organization and our culture in our stores and in our office to accept everyone and welcome everyone. Again do I have a percentage of how many of this in a number? No never because then again you're defeating it's a self-defeating process.  Well all that we discussed you can understand that we're very excited about India and we're super excited about the future because it's a truth that you know India will become a very very large consumer market. India will India's importance of the global in the world order will grow and that's shown in whether it is the investor community or global brands or you know the the the overall interest of even in a geopolitical basis India is getting more and more relevance and that will happen and as a brand we're very excited because of two reasons. A. India is getting very interesting. B. Our category in India has because we are coming from a very low base we were a sporting culture 10 years down the line was not something to write home about and hence the only way was to go upwards and that and that's happening like a tremendous space and our business will benefit out of that we want to stay relevant and leverage that trend. So overall we will continue to invest very heavily we're very very excited to be looking at the future in India. Absolutely thank you very much Abhishek for talking to us and you know sharing your insights and Puma's future plans in India and this me Tanzeela Sheikh will be signing off. Let's talk more about you know the campaign next time when you come up to by or anywhere. Have a great day Abhishek. Thank you pleasure being here.


dropping a massive quintan in the jack saint but anyways guys here's an extra large donation this week to celebrate by raise at work gotta go but have fun shitting on just rights trash well thank you Zach um our movies art like art and design aren't the same uh this is the problem we haven't actually discussed that on e-fab I don't think but like what counts as art some people take it to the extreme and they're like a leaf of the weed is art they're like okay but good luck essentially defining art yeah good luck can't stay for the whole thing but I can't wait for you guys to get to his reason as to why why wigs weeded tlj it's terrible well yeah boy we got a reaction out of that to a degree oh we did um yeah I think that he likes that art a bit he thought it was great let's just go through the super chats james more said wolf no don't go you're upsetting james wolf well you know it's okay people will be upset for 10 minutes and they'll forget well you often talk about a standard being achieved with objectivity what's a great example film of the being of a high standard lord of the rings is the easy one to go for because it it excels in a massive amount of aspects of filmmaking um it's downright it doesn't make sense that the lord of the rings is as good as it is to be honest with you it's really good yeah um rlm appears to think tlj is not as bad as the prequels calling it a mess with interesting ideas get them on eFap to debate it rich evans is a god i don't think they'd ever come on eFap we would gladly have them on but yeah they think the prequels are worse than tlj that's their take i would happily talk to them about that because it's just so unfair the fucking sequels are a disaster at this point and if you remember they were very much in favor of tfa and you can since tell they're not sure about that anymore um and it was it was kind of the same for me with with tfa i was on board with it but then once you give a real critical like this narrative that went around that was um it's a clone of the ot and it was like it's not just that though it's not just that it's a clone of the ot that's not a it's a horrible clone it's like a botched clone it's not a good clone because good clones can actually be okay look at the lion king that did pretty well didn't it people might think i'm referencing the live adaptation i'm not i'm referencing uh the kimba wolf that's the name oh yeah the white lion that there there's a video out there that shows like just how much the lion king stole from it and it makes me it made me lose a lot of respect for the lion king it's insane it's actually i mean i don't think i can remove how much i like that movie but at the same time good lord that is the clear act of plagiarism i think i've ever seen uh you are wrong wolf your videos are excellent please don't leave from chip chip play he's convinced clearly uh wolf have you heard about the upcoming lord of the rings game where you play as golem it takes place a couple hundred years before the hobbit it comes out in 2021 you can find the logo how would that even work i don't i have never heard of anything like that i'm curious i haven't either so yeah all right i would like to thank all of the e-fab viewers who sub to my mark the cyborg channel my newest video is a review of wolfenstein young blood and i end it with one of wolf's favorite quotes rhino milk cosmic chicken i think um but yes mark the cyborg i remember that name uh check it out i guess if you want to wolf how many slash which lord of the rings games have you played um i played both the middle earth games i played a bit of lord of the rings online um i tried to get into war of the north but it was really boring and after two hours i stopped playing it and i think that's it uh just writes a version to objective qualitative statements appears to be a kneejerk reaction to tlj criticism your discussion with him was fascinating i didn't realize how fundamental that discussion has become in terms of like a originating point in terms of the discussion as a whole and what it did to him and his channel it was such a casual stream that be a wolf and set up we're just like okay i feel like wolf was was it wolf were you doing it anyway no we were watching a video we said should we stream it that's what it was yeah and uh i think it was actually your idea to stream it and then we did and we didn't expect anything and then he just happened to be in the chat and that's how that came about we're gonna have to do a part two for this aren't we i've got like 17 minutes i think i might really do it more you should consider comparing tlj and kotor i'd have to play it first and uh i think there are people who are doing a way better job than i ever would at that already online so fair enough uh is doth vady gonna dave to force choker bitch maybe um yes i dialan volo i'm destined to be king my immortal mid crimson will erase the middle of the next 10 seconds of time and i will finish my enemies that's a jojo i was gonna say there's a couple references in there that were effab related too so i guess just a big old reference uh wolf if you leave effab you won't be able to demand art from beowyn anymore also i'll cry and become a bad adaptation of spider-man uh this is as uh this is as bad as the niche he is a nihilist this is colon i feel like there was more to that but it got cut off or something um would anyone consider sloth from the goonies to be subjectively beautiful his mum didn't a face even a mother can't love uh wolf thank you for banning raw in that one stream that's from creepy sheev band raw he did uh 20 minutes equals a billion years i don't know i don't know i don't know 20 minutes equals a billion years i can't remember what that's referencing but yes oh when uh just right said uh remember the dark knight that thing i referenced a million years ago oh right because to him a 16 minute video is like a lifetime uh jesus oh 16 minutes of time anyway here chad stuckman take our monies ends well bad stuckman that's not so bad you know like that chad also stuckman uh the just right guy is a salty bitch would just right argue that films are objectively subjective well this is the thing a lot of the time with the whole nothing is objective thing it's like isn't that an objective statement it's like no like hmm seems like you're pretty definitive about it and it's like how you proven that how do you know you know the counter argument being that how do you know when not being objective just by accident in your world view we could be committing to it but we don't have the necessary framing to understand that that's definitively what we're doing is this whole thing well if i want to buy your pizza with this but i want it to be a healthy pizza maybe even some pineapple on it or at least some cosmic buffalo chicken oh good lord don't when is just right going to stop making excuses for his logical shortcomings by claiming subjectivity how long can the charade of sophistry go on well it's already he's already gone back on it in his game of thrones season 8 video but nobody cares because he'll make the claims and then be like oh it's all subjective lol anyway this game of thrones really backs logically and consistently yeah but it's all subjective like you just apply the same thing to everything he says in that video you go hey just right you say this thing is incongruous with this other thing but ultimately if they had done that it wouldn't be as emotionally resonant they needed to happen for the story to happen just right right you're not making any sense just right so it'll just go on forever i don't think his fan base are paying enough attention to notice anyway not you know no offense to them i'm sure they're wonderful people i just finished shads book while listening to this and i enjoyed it but you should make fun of him for making the symbol of one of the factions suspiciously similar to his own logo that's it's a reference if i was making a book i'd probably throw a whole bunch of evap references in there like i'd have this faction that have a name that you know like is ea e f e f p maybe with an a like e f p a just people could be like oh subtle references that's the that's the key if i had a send for every time someone cherry-picked things a philosophers said to suit their agenda i mean it works apparently yeah twist your words does orphan art have value no also someone in chat said i googled youtube stream max length and says 12 hours i've looked into it several times the most common answer i find is 8 hours and i'm pretty sure that is the case and if ever i try and test that it'll mean that we'll actively delete part of an evap as a potential so i don't really want to push it further than that at that point i hope that they extend it someday for sure e fap is the red pen of death for video essays potentially flowers literally proper use of the word designed to be pleasing to the senses there are plants way to trick animals into doing their work because they didn't evolve legs oh well that's just your opinion that's a big old tin of worms that we don't have time to get into no we don't no wolf your diet oh i guess they're saying because you had the pizza oh you literally made the argument that if i don't know about it it doesn't exist yeah so glad i got to watch just right give wolf a dad yours of life wonderful stuff know what the millennium falcon is so it's not a plot hole by not being in the prequel okay i'm not even gonna go over that terrible argument how it explains anything i don't know enough about it tell you what tell you what nobody knew that the millennium falcon had l-337 as the navigator when the original trilogy came out no oh maulah give this to wolf and it must be for drugs and alcohol all right hello maulah hello there literally more people know the name of a y-wing than most people know what the bomber and tlj's was called go to hell just right i would agree with you on that just right you made a really good video but i truly deeply really deep down in my heart think that those videos were an accident you should stop now you guys need to focus on praising what you love not critiquing what you hate just tico inspirational at weird of wolf i can't take any more of just rights video i'm gonna go out for a bit before i kill myself hopefully you guys will still be on when i come back love you massives hope you survive oh yeah either actor could have played either character oh damn that's a good point metalman bad john wick 3 is objectively good tism but it has a lot of tism it's all good tism it's good fun it's good fun tism fine i'll give you the fun tism the action scenes are definitely worth watching on youtube i'm incredibly biased because i adore how silly it is it is really silly exactly stupid as world building is it's it's like up there with hops and shy and like dumb action movies wolf are you actually serious about deleting your channel crying face yep and silence hmm it's a bit of a bombshell mm-hmm there's a moment of silence for an excellent youtube channel leave for two i'll say you won't be missed all these super chats are about it i leave for two seconds and wolf is going and saying well if wolf wants to delete the channel we can't stop him but we'll make sure he's aware of how much we'll miss him peace of shit lol as we know jack saint is honest absolutely here's my tithe for the holy trinity of dumbassery thank you wolf is keith and natani a good couple cute also when do you think they're gonna do the nasty wolf is keith and natani oh oh i read that wrong okay no i know what he's talking about yes they're actually better than the two main characters in my opinion and it's never going to happen because tom likes to mess with his fanbase in that way guys calm down stop being immature you should just evolve as critics right guys just rice kind of forgotten how to make valid points only when it's on stuff that he likes objectivity ends conversations efap six hours plus yep end conversations my brother walked in during the freak out about the y-wing he went on a straw man rant that criticisms of tlj are out of stupidity and con artist reasons in a kermit voice what we criticized tlj out of con artist reasons okay alright i was watching iron man one i was watching iron man one and tony should have died like four times him flying in the first iron man suit out of the cave and just landing in the sand was so jarring yeah actually uh we me and alex rewatched that after endgame just for like nostalgia and i remember saying it was like this is a bit weird that he survives that it's such a major fucking blow like and the suit is destroyed when he lands and you're like wouldn't that have okay i'm telling you even non superhero characters and films have superhuman durability oh well that's the thing i think there's valid to point those things out but i think some films do take measures to try and you know keep them at least a little bit grounded they'll show them taking wounds or something well they never actually have them attacked by something hugely significant i personally i'm just happy to like accept that the tolerance threshold for damage for a film human is higher because it allows for more stuff to take place it's just me though uh but what's the secret to mario's jump we'll never find that out it should be noted a new hope talking did say he was risking a lot by letting leia get away with the plans even if they were tracking them yes uh but it was more of a it's absolutely a risk versus having them kept prisoner but uh i'm assuming that's tied to the fact that it was leia specifically too and losing them compared to but the thing is it did pay off as far as he was concerned yes we got him and then um there's a line where he says um abandon the ship in our moment of triumph i think not for something like that i can't remember the actual quote just writes theory is crap history already proves art continues despite objective critique what if i said i'm not going to write because subjectively someone might think my work promotes murder exactly you can absolutely make the argument in reverse i don't know why he thinks it only applies to his side um well this is from me repository wolf i wanted to say how much you video on depression and mental health meant to me keep up the good work you beautiful massive i will he'll get another video soon i'm glad to see that you guys are still going gives me more to catch up on later if rags comes back ask him when his next video is coming out uh split this between yourselves we'll do put that in for rags as well as far as i know his next video is on the way uh i guess similar to all of us wait two thousand years we only started arguing 19 years after jesus oh i don't know uh big crap uh also surprise you live through this slash make the dmc content you coward oh wait dmc content uh that's what you're doing don't make r5 video uh well please say all right steady slow and easy and okay you guys can come and pick me up now guys hello and wolf they want you to say we are ready to go what are your feelings towards our success rate we're ready to go what are your feelings toward our success rate yeah but i guess this from meme video i'm guessing so they probably want you to say it in a way that sounds like you're saying that hey that's okay okay we're ready to go what are your feelings toward our success rate altheo i am platinum mad okay bobson here's some money for wolf's next pizza also hi rag worried say hi back how long have i got oh four minutes okay more ignore theo and watch mono gattari it's important you do it is theos favorite thing yes i'm spending five more quid to dab on theo wolf 91% of ori so glad to be out of spiky windy hell was playing while listening to this stream and had more fun than you did tonight okay saw once upon a time in hollywood loved it excellent speaking of memes i got a couple coming out soon as well as the first part of efap the movie can't wait for efap 50 oh neither can we i want theo who was on efap to read my bedtime stories or read me bedtime times oh yeah damn you guys are still going to miss the streamer wanted to drop by to say how you're doing well and also we should repeal the 19th of course raw could you release videos where you guys react to memes separate from the actual efap no that's part of efap any chance you'll have sargon or Shapiro on efap 50 i doubt we'll have him on efap 50 efap 50 is like gonna just be past guests coming back on so um but who knows what'll happen in future uh i'll take a few years but i'll get to work on moving efap to a beautiful home in alaska i promise there you go james so wonderful project for you to engage in right i got three minutes i can do this thoughts on 3d anime bad burn it yeah who knows could be good could be bad i don't know anything about that a red cross report said 200 000 died of typhus by the way what does that have to do with anything we were talking about okay okay sorry uh thoughts on next james bond wait for it to come out it's probably gonna be terrible but who knows that's next 007 to you yeah attack on titan is based it's core conflict is the world's most important important issue right now people who disagree deserve to be thrown off rooftops in mere did nothing wrong more i want to thank you right now for watching rise of skywalker so that i don't have to oh yeah i can already recommend it's probably not worth it and then i will confirm that for you soon after it's released probably thoughts on black sails on stars i have no idea what that is uh do an endgame critique like the tlj one i am tempted to do that i'm not sure what i'm going to be doing exactly with endgame though but it will be something you should do an efap with ryan dorsen to discuss chindler's list united 93 zero dark 30 in sicario guaranteed top tier episode yes i don't know who that is though wolf when will be able to when will we be able to buy your book again don't know mola what's with the drawings in your soma vids they were supposed to be funny stupid and represent the fact that i'm just a randy dude who's trying to comment on stuff but they were also great but not how to convey emotion in what i was saying so it's a little bit less emotive back then but um i might bring them back oh god i have a minute uh watch the doom eternal presentation with the dev plays it on stage is amazing there's still a developer listening to fans thank you id software oh yes it's probably going to be a very good game whoever said crab is worst girl and cat for the wind deserves to be burned by one giant ghost tiger hey thanks again bobson wolf if you leave i will genuinely miss your faithful promotion of one of life's great joys pizza it's fun to point out whenever you go on mute okay uh wolf you sound like boogie in eye of souls dm's oh i've heard about that uh i don't know what that well i'll talk to you about that after the show i've got 50 seconds that i've got four super chats as the son of the philosopher it's nice to see philosophy on e-fap also crab best kill cat second best kill it's two bullets by bennie talk to the forecaster or against legate lanius at hoover dam also how could you say that wolf i couldn't forget my favorite e-fap host you're the one i found first James Moore as well uh pothead wolf bans me me out am i oh out am i i know that reference uh in ogtlk at the stampede zazu says he will help and scar knocks him out 2016 scar tells zazu to help him and he lets him leave zazu proceeds to do not do that and instead chills with brufiki what the fuck and the final one is geode yeah that movie sounds terrible um so end of stream thank you all for generous donations on the watching we will see you next e-fap toodle pip cheerio bye