Hi, everyone, and welcome to the last conversation of today's convening. My name is Sarah Garten Stanley, and I'm co-founder for Spiderweb Show and the founding artistic director, and I'm so happy to be in this final conversation and to get an opportunity to filter through for my own self some of the things that have been said already today. Some of the things that have stuck in my mind just to kick us off are how the lack of time can be a real contributor to bad science and bad art, which was a quote from somebody earlier and I'm sorry I can't, I didn't write down who said it, but it reminds me and thank you so much for the game that we just played, how important it is to breathe. We named this, and I'm not breathing while I'm saying it, we named this configuration, this day of experiment configuration as the breathing circle because we felt that it could emulate a sense of contraction and release and contraction and release. So I invite us for this last hour to think about that and to speak slowly whether you're part of the inner circle or if you come in in the number two circle or the final circle. Of course I say that and then remind all of you, thank you so much for joining us in this circle that I'm going to put a two minute timer on each of your opening remarks just to help organize the conversation moving forward so we can stay in the inner circle and have some good, full some conversation back and forth. I'm also really struck by a comment that was made earlier a couple of times about innovation inflation and thinking about how in this topic this conversation is titled Digital Utopias, how utopia is a suspicious word for I think a lot of reasons because the promise of technology and the internet and accessibility and any number of things that were thought to be potential equalizers and or to bring in the word that was called into question this morning disruptions. While we've seen a lot of I think really exciting changes and things occur, I think we've also seen some things that have not been as exciting. So the word is not necessarily a wholly beloved word but I think it's an interesting word to think about how we might be optimistic if we use utopias in that way when we think about the digital interface with utopia. But also it comes out of our initial thinking around sustainability and in many side conversations I've had throughout the day what has come up are these questions around the climate that we are existing within, the advent of climate change, the planet that we are a part of and how we're coexisting on the lands that we are on but as well with all of the floor and fauna that we're trying to understand how better to coexist with. And so I think there is a real digital kind of imprint that is hidden in the same way that our own power over many other animals, plants and weather systems was hidden. So I bring that just forward to something to think about moving forward. So for this last conversation it's going to be two minutes time for each of the speakers. I remind you and I would ask that we do employ when we are talking and this is for the whole group. This is my final thought. It will make it more widely accessible to all people involved and helpful just in terms of the moderating as we go through and I didn't ask a particular leaping off order but I did hand a microphone to Sage and I was wondering if you'd be okay to start. Sure. I feel like I'm waiting for the timer to start already. Breathe. So I'm really interested, folks, I am Sage Crump. I've introduced myself a couple of times. What I do with complex movements, I'm a cultural strategist and so what that means is I think a lot about the ways in which art and culture dismantle systemic oppressions and creates the world we want to live in. And so inside our collective we think about all the ways in which the work is designed to do that. That is both the artistic work and how it moves and supports different organizing in communities but it's also like the conjunction in which it finds itself. Who are our presenters? What communities are we going to? How do we get to them? And so I share that by way of entering into this conversation around digital utopia because I think a lot about how we get where we're going and the importance of thinking through that with a level of rigor to ensure that we're not replicating systems and not replicating systems that devalue, exploit, especially as touring artists creating extractive economies in the places where we go and I'm glad you kind of called on me first because I do want to talk about utopia. This idea that there's somewhere we're going to land I think is antithetical to a creative practice. Right?  And so utopia implies we're going to land somewhere to me and I think what I'm more interested in is how do we build ways in which we are, we continue to be iterative, creative and antifragile. So it's not just in relationship to the challenges but that we are in a constant mode of learning, a culture of inquiry, building a new way of being. I think that, I lost my other thought, that helps us think about the tools that we use when we're clear about where we're getting or what we are working through then the tools come in in ways to get there. And we can also think about what is the right technology and how it is used. I think that might be my final thought. I've got a lot more thoughts but they're going to come a little later. Wonderful. Thanks so much. We'll come back. That was two minutes exactly. Just to do a little bit of around the circle and placement, I call these placement statements and just ask each of the speakers to think about where they're coming at this question from and where they're hoping to look ahead to the future. Just so we place everyone right across from me is Sage and then to Sage's right is Abigail and to Abigail's right is Kevin and to Kevin's right is Alex. Alex, I'm to your right and to my right is Chantal and to Chantal's right is Wesley. And I'd just like to pass it now to Abigail. Hi, I'm Abigail Vega. I'm the producer of the Latinx Theater Commons, LTC, which is a flagship program of HowlRound, Literacy Moment for maybe some of my Canadian friends and also US friends. So Latinx is not an English or a Spanish word. It is a gender-inclusive word for people who are Latino or who are Latina or Latinx and that's in the United States defined as somebody who was born in the US or lives in the US of Latin American descent. So that's kind of what we're using. Although I'm now hearing that Canadians are using it, which is awesome and very excited about that. Just for context, we're the second largest minority in the United States, the fastest growing, a quarter of school children in K through 12 are Latinx. And an interesting thing when we talk about sort of conversations around generations is that the average white person in the United States is 48. The average Latinx person is 28. So there's like, yeah, there's some major shifts going on and a lot of that has to do with generation as well. So we are a hemispheric national movement of scholars, advocates, administrators and art makers who are kind of looking to rework the quote American theater and we're gonna be inclusive and say America, right? The whole America. We do that by producing conversations and events via convenings. We publish on the HowlRound Journal and we are across four time zones in the United States and in Canada with our volunteer steering committee of about 60 people and 35 advisory committee members. And we do everything aside from the producer position, everything with volunteer labor. We are not inventing this wheel. We are only writing on the shoulders of our ancestors. So earlier someone talked about disruption being like, we're sort of redoing it and that's not what we're doing. We're relying on the fact that in our community, we have a long history of organizing and this is just the next step. And there will be something after us that's even better. And then that's when we're thinking about utopias. I also don't like the idea of landing in a place because we can't even envision what paradise looks like yet, but I'm interested what happens after us. And being okay with things ending people because sometimes things have to end. Thanks so much, right on the two minutes, Kevin. I'm Kevin, three-legged dog in New York. So it's been interesting listening to, especially our attempts to grapple with interactivity today. Yeah, sure. But I just, just one sort of utopian statement as an art maker. A lot of times we think of code at 3LD as a universal translator between modes of expression. And I talked a little bit earlier about how the biggest sort of impact of technology on our work has been its ability to integrate all the different aspects of a performance or installation. And so as an artist, I've been working for the last 23 years to try to find a way to allow myself and other artists to build and finish large-scale, ambitious projects, many of which used technology. And also to find and put forward technologies and methods that are affordable and usable by your everyday, average, georgial artists. And with, you know, this sort of up-and-down success. So probably the biggest struggle has been that our company has ended up doing as much experimentation in business modeling as it has in artistic experimentation just to try to keep moving, right? In fact, in January, we finally were forced out of our 12,000-square-foot space in Manhattan. We're the 90th performing group to have been forced out since the recession. That's a whole other discussion, and it's not utopian. It's quite dystopian, actually, and I think all of us are experiencing it. But as an artist, what I've been working on, I guess, really in a focus way since 2005, is to try to find ways to bring moving image or cinematic imagery into the living, the life space. So the beauty and the scale of cinematic imagery working with the immediacy and unpredictability of live performance. And that does have a lot to do with interactivity. We have to find systems that allow our performers to interact and improvise inside a digitally complex place, and we've had a lot of success with that. Thanks so much. We're actually yet. Alex, I'm going to... There's a mic coming to you on your computer. Can you put the mic to my computer, please? Alex speaking. This is Alex speaking. This is Alex speaking. This is Alex speaking. Can you hear that at all through the speaker? This is Alex speaking. I'm happy to guide you. Digital utopias. For me, these two words provoke quite an emotional response, Colin. Clear frustration, anger, hope, isolation, breathing and not breathing. Other significant themes come to mind, Colin. Choice, reliability, balance, politics, access, human performance, un-nation-indicated perceptual intelligence. Digital utopia, when the technology delivers equitable opportunity. At present, I propose it is of greatest benefit to those who are more entitled. Be it more able, more economically stable, more likely to be employed, to just name a few. I also propose that there are many who have limited access to meaningful digital engagement and could benefit greatly from it. And as such, there exists a need for advanced political will and political progress to keep up with digital. Opportunities perhaps this is called political digital utopia. I experience the lack of political progress in relation to digital progress every day. I also have the privilege of being a working artist with access to funding which is enabled me to find creative solutions to access, find an artistic voice within this and invite digital technology into my work. With the protection of being part of a thoughtful artistic process. Digital technology outside of an artistic process often leaves me feeling that it's connected with my body. Sensorially understimulated, fragile. Digital utopia, lack, when we continue the question now is there is not liberating our imagination, our access to quality of life and work, our connections with each other and the living world around. End of current thought. Thanks so much, Alex. Do you want to make any more comments or that was Jocelyn end of current thought? Yes? Sorry, I was looking at you, Alex. Is that the end of your current thought? Wonderful. End of current thought. Thanks so much. I'm going to pass it over to Chantel. So my most direct relationship with technology is through a project that I co-founded in 2015 called Climate Change Theatre Action where every two years we commission 50 playwrights from around the world to write a short play related to climate change and then we take this collection of plays and we make them available to whoever wants to present an event within a certain time when during the fall against around the world. So the way we use technology for this is really to create a sense of community and make visible something that might not be visible in the sense that they're having an impact even though they might feel very isolated. So we have a little bit like how around we have a world map where we pin all of the events that are taking place and then we use social media to put people in touch with each other. So what ends up happening is somebody, so this is an arts based action for social change and people use these plays, they create an event and it might be a small group or something like that that's presenting an event for 20 people but then they know that within that same timeframe in the same about 12 weeks that there are hundreds of other events taking place in the world with thousands more audiences and so what feels like could be a very small thing that if you are on your own you may not notice any impact and when you see that it's replicated it's much more encouraging and of course it's nothing new it's what a lot of organizers are doing a lot of social movements are doing but we've kind of borrowed this model and applied it to the arts. Is that it? If you're done, is that the end of your current thought? I think that's the end of my current thought. Wonderful, thank you. Wesley. So, yeah, Wesley Taylor part of complex movements would say so many different conflicting thoughts about the idea of utopia that I can't even reconcile in my brain right now and I think one thing that I grapple with on a daily basis like not being resigned to the ship already sailing on these things never being achieved and it's like well what do you do in the meantime? When I was 18 I started my university years in environmental sciences I left that to be an artist because all the models that I saw in 1996 were like it's over if we didn't do things 10 years ago and those were the models that would be out of this if this accord is not signed on to and agreed to then it's over and these were all the predictions 30 years into the future 50 years in the future and if there was a checklist and we were supposed to check those things off then none of those things were checked off so that's one thing but then thinking about other things like I'm obsessed with AI and just thinking about the world with that and going back to theorization of and lived experience of we talk about utopia and I think utopias can be conflated with this idea of fiction and science fiction and dystopia and things like that so my technology was Skynet and it wasn't as a joke but actually that is what I think and that is why I'm obsessed with artificial intelligence but also like the theorization of say the the black body in the United States already experiences that dystopic notion that is in science fiction and so those are things that I grapple with all the time just to say that I am engaged and involved with these things because to me it comes down to the consciousness what is the consciousness that is imbued in these systems, ideas, frameworks, technologies and on a wholesale like way there's it's very much exclusionary and so what goes on, what transports, what transfers to next phases and next stages of humanity and things keep me up at night Thanks so much so thanks everyone for a two minute placement statement what I heard in three different ways and actually not the word but from everybody was this question about fragility and I wonder how Sage you mentioned it with respect to antifragile and I wonder if you could speak a little bit about that and then Alex, the word fragility came up in your writing and then Kevin you spoke about sort of building and finishing and there was sort of a concrete kind of get this thing kind of built and Wesley when you sort of mentioned this question around if there was a checklist then it didn't get so I just, everybody actually sort of brought it in so I wonder if we could sort of spend a bit of time on that Sure so first of all there's a book called antifragile I don't actually recommend the book but conceptually it's really dope and part of it is a way to move past this thought of like resiliency and this and resilient meaning something that comes something that comes against you and then you are able to respond and recover building spaces that are antifragile means you are in a sense you are in a process of constant iteration so it's not a responding to an external disaster or an external problem but actually we're building things that move us past and it moves us past this, what I kept hearing is like this binary of dystopia utopia antifragile gets us into this constant creates a different culture by which we're not centering the harm but we are continually thinking about our vision forward and what's the future iteration from the learning from what's happened So the first time I remember hearing the words sustainable viable were from a venture capitalist in the early 90s who was describing what was wrong with not-for-profit organizations so I try and this is a problem that I think is common to everybody that's working in digital arts which is that there's a pervasive corporate structure that we all run into moment to moment every day and one of the things that I'm interested in we started a software company because there wasn't a tool that we needed so we just started a software company and put us in the same room with Henry Kravitz the inventor of the hostile leverage buyout so it wasn't that good an idea it turned out but and I learned a lot from him unfortunately but sorry can you say what that is the hostile leverage buyout that's where the investor comes in and takes usually half equity and half debt and then they do what they call fry and flip which is they push the entity to spend as much money as it can until they're in trouble and they call in the debt and own the company so I mean that's one way there's a lot of different other it's hostile and it's leveraged it's bad anyway one of the issues that we struggle with you know we work really hard to make sure that our toolset is affordable that any artist anybody can have access to it we did a big huge installation in Shanghai that was probably the largest video projection surface ever built at that time was 88 million pixels so it was five times IMAX resolution and we did that with $350 software because it's better it's a better tool and it's also we can't afford $40,000 channel media and we can't afford $50,000 and that's part of our work and the last 10 years I found it more and more and more difficult to engage artists in cooperative work because everybody is innately pitted against each other by this ridiculous idea that we're going to achieve something by competing with each other somehow right so this is another sort of struggle that I've had and all artists you know but you know we've been able to make a lot of progress through cooperative action but one of the things I'd like to see for example is a group of artists and technologists and maybe universities are involved that come in and develop an alternative to the Adobe suite which I feel like a indentured servant to Adobe because I have to use their suite and I have to pay X amount of money a month to make sure that my content, my intellectual property is still accessible to me I guess I feel more like I'm kidnapped but anyway great thanks I think we could move on maybe a little bit from that question I'm curious a little bit about the feelings around data and how data is providing positive opportunities for the work that you're doing and how it may or may not be I was thinking in the previous session about this question about whether audiences want to participate or not and it made me think about how suspicious I feel about data but also how dependent upon data I am and so I'm Abigail I was really moved by the quote with respect to the average white person is 48 and Latinx is my writing is terrible 28 and I mean that's an incredible statistic and it's based on data which I think is from my perspective a very positive outcome of what data can do or the work Chantal that you've been able to do with respect to climate change and bringing together for social change and yet I wonder my question to the group is how we feel having this data is helping move our projects forward do we see that being a continuum or do we see the problems that lie ahead anyone want to take that on well I'll just say something that's going on for us for a moment but so I was reading this article that was talking about how all the rules that the EU is putting in about security in relation to our data and how the US isn't doing that work and it equated that Europeans feel about the word privacy the same way that Americans or United States feel about the word liberty like we are like all about freedom and it's like so privacy is not the same so I'm almost like oh I don't know like data I feel like whatever in some ways you know it's unreliable because when you're talking across labels you know specifically for Latinx people right so we are white we are black we are indigenous we are Asian and most often when we're talking about census work like that happens every 10 years in the United States they don't include Afro Latinx people in that number so when I say a quarter of that's not happening there's also a lot specifically in the southwest people are being mislabeled as Latinx and they're really indigenous or Native American so there's all these like labeling things that are really weird I guess here too but definitely in the US that do pit us against each other right so it's like if it comes about only one can get it and we're going to be in the same pool like then we have a moment of competition that's false and that's created for no reason but it can also build strengths right in terms of community and having a greater sense of the numbers of a larger sense of you know across a nation or across the America or Turtle Island as you said you know it can offer an opportunity to think in a larger more communal way I guess the question is can that communal thinking translate and maybe that's my endgame thinking which maybe sort of part of this utopian problem but can it help transition into greater power for different groups who have not up till now held the balance of power and can are we still in a position where this work that we're doing can make strong do we feel that we can still make strong cultural change with the use of technology and the digital shift is it still something that is it something that we feel that anybody here that I feel positive about and can point to some of the ways in which it can really help move ideas forward so I made a I did a little experiment with data and this was not data that was collected through technologies just things I knew from this project climate change theater action and it was looking at racial bias and gender bias and comparing our statistics with the field at large and I would say so because in the field at large you have you know usually artistic directors and institutions making decisions about their programming and then in climate change theater action it tends to be either individuals or groups who will come together and make those decisions so the decision power it lives in a different place and I wanted to see if it affected the place that were presented whether statistics in terms of gender and race match the statistics of the field at large and it turns out that it didn't that we were doing much better so I and you know and when I say we it's not me it's really the people who participate so I think in that sense the data is a way to move the field forward because then it makes you question okay where does the power live and why when it lives there are certain decisions made in a certain way and so if you change how where the power lives and the decisions are different then what does that mean and what do we have to reconsider Alex would you like to say something this is a question about data or the digital the potential for digital technology to advance ideas it's both I was thinking about data yeah I have to say the subject of data doesn't speak to me I I'm trying to get sort of a connection to it both personally and professionally and I'm struggling but I can certainly say that that digital technology has changed the way that I imagine and it's changed the way ID center vision from work so I think in answer to your question in just in terms of progression of ideas I do think that I think it does progress I think it changes how we imagine and then how we execute those imaginings but I'm a bit confused about the question of data I can and then and then after that we're going to move into the second circle and then hopefully we can keep the conversation going an example of that is recently we were doing some work on climate change and some of the data around the carbon footprint that exists as a result of technology where we think of it as a very clean non non pervasive or invasive kind of way to communicate that in fact there's many questions around how much how much how large the carbon footprint is using technological you know email instead of paper for example is a very straight up thing there's actually data can show the costs and so to my mind that's a very helpful really productive way to think about because we make so often we'll make big choices and then look back and go oh maybe that wasn't the best choice so it was from that perspective thinking there may be some stuff thank you if we can maybe take this moment just to move to the second circle and please feel free to join us in the second circle okay please as I say feel free to join from outside the circle but let's keep going on this question I think Sage so I think another thing so it's like all my allergies I have a ton of like food allergies right and then I have a lot of like a lot of word allergies because I think data like I feel like there's a lot of for me resistance to like this idea of data because of I think like a lot of positions that I like to take are anti like anti modernist enlightenment objective eyes and like objective thought because like a lot of those a lot of those things and those concepts become instrumentalized against communities that see the brunt end of those like the the worst of those things and so it's like these are things that I understand and I know like data can show things but then it's also like it's also data over intuition a lot of times and it's like a lot of times where it's like you see I can like I can do like a lot of math just reading a lot of reports say articles and things like that and you're like well you know this is fucked up it's not right and then it takes another 30 years for data to support that you know what I mean and that's where we go with when you have people yelling to say this is not right this is my experience this is my lived experience and so I think one very good example of that is video on cell phones and police brutality people have been screaming police brutality exists but until like the objective thing of like cameras and those things being broadcasted through technology do people like understand this as a thing and so I think that's one anecdotal way and once again it's like data over antidote right antidote becomes a bad word when we start to talk about evidence and so just rethinking some of these things in a lot of ways I mean it makes me think about rethinking the greater systems when we're thinking about climate change when we're thinking about colonization when we're thinking about the ways in which we've created our systems for engagement that it's hard at a certain point to sort of talk about anything without starting to undo a lot of the things which has to do with monetary systems in the way in which we think about end results and kind of a financial bottom line I'm wondering if there's Sage were you going to jump into this data question a little bit because I was having a very similar reaction Alex about like how am I leaning into this question and part of it for me was this idea of like the word data and like separating this idea of data and statistics first of all and thinking about what are artifacts of a lived experience and one of the things that can do by understanding understanding what are our it shows us our connections right and it helps it can help us build relationship and for me that's where the value of looking at the pieces of a thing and saying these pieces are aligned here and with this other person and how we can get to things like intersectionality or even a conjuncture that makes sense around building a new political climate the other thing that I want to come back to my other thought about this relationship of this conversation of climate justice during lunch I was talking with one of the volunteers about a black feminist writer named Sylvia Winter and her piece Beyond Humanism and one of the things she advances in that is that we can't only talk about the well-being of humanity and we have to move beyond humanism because we are in relationship to everything around us and I think we think about a relationship and I'm looking for someone who was talking about relationship earlier during the interactive and immersive conversation that all of this for me is around how do we build more touch how do we build more touch with each other and that it's in the touch and the collectivity that we'll actually figure out what is next and what needs to be next which is sort of anti-data right if we're going to rely on the porous structures you were talking about self no co-presence like if we're going to rely on that as our primary data as opposed to numbers and all those kinds of things like that's kind of a radical anti-data perspective a little bit yeah I'm certainly not arguing for it I have one example of it being positive which was around thinking about climate change from but yeah I mean I think but I want to pick up on this thing about touch because we're all here we get to be in space together which I think is a tremendous privilege to be able to gather and to make the most of being in the same space as one another we've all come together over great distance and have communicated previously over online and on the internet and over different different devices are we thinking about how touch can be more a part of future thinking around technology and how it can be more expressive and is that something that is a because when I think about VR if you can't see it you could hear it but you can't you can't be fully engaged in that and I'm wondering are there going are does anyone here know anything about that does any touch work around sort of multi-layered experiences that have a physical component because I think touch is hugely important but Alex this is Alex speaking haptic technology is vibrational information so I did a theater piece in England that the audience was led purely through a haptic device that was in their hands and so it was highly interactive in terms of touch it was very interesting but again I guess one of the things that I thinking about touch and about the balance between digital technologies and the human experience whether it be touch or smell or hearing or seeing is that so often the technologies actually can interfere with the human technology so if I'm wandering around a space with a haptic in one hand and a cane in another there are no hands free for me to use this wonderful piece of technology called my skin and it's the same often with technologies that are for blind people where you have to in order to use it on the street you have to put in earbuds because you can't possibly hear it on your phone and once you put something in your earbuds I don't know what's going on over there anymore so I'm really interested in technologies that use bone density or some way like something not in the hands but just some way to protect our human perceptual intelligence with technology intelligence technological digital intelligence end of current thought thank you so I just think a little bit about this idea of in an instance like VR what kind of data might be collected and that in many instances that data could be something like the haptic feedback of the person who's standing next to you the warmth coming off of their body and how that narratively fits in with what you're experiencing in virtual space that data isn't necessarily collected or put into any kind of record keeping but is nonetheless part of that experience and I think this idea of haptic feedback is a huge part of the immersive qualities of a lot of these technologies that we've been talking about all day and that a lot of these issues of data that we've talked about it's kind of about how they become fixed in time and space about how a record that was taken from a while ago gets looked back on and then we comment on it as if it is a truth of today and yeah thank you yeah I wanted to speak to this piece about touch and also connect it to what you said earlier about intuition because I think that we have a serious problem underlying how we think you can translate between experience and basically math I think we have a theory that we have this understanding that the universe can be well understood through math which is very true but that translation is really deeply flawed and so what that means like how are we going to take these things that are very complex and translate them into data that actually gives us meaningful information about the people we're putting into these systems it's something that we're not very good at doing and I think that's really a serious risk when we move forward with technologies we start saying we're going to count features or count things about people and we don't really know fully how to use that information effectively but then we're going to build our systems based on our imperfect use of that data that's when you start getting these problems like these social media problems right you have ideas that have some use but also deep flaws and then you set up the structures and put people in them and I think that pattern and that's actually a thinking problem of okay well we're taking this information we're imperfectly translating it then we're building ideas based on that then we're building systems based on that that set of sequences is a huge danger in doing this work and in building systems that we're going to use these technologies within thank you I just want to acknowledge that I'm curious about using the term touch and data in the same conversation and I'm curious about how we're considering the ways in which our data is already touching back on us via the way it's being collected in mind and coming back and weaponized to identify ourselves to ourselves as mediated bodies and curious about in a conversation about digital utopias how we can start to like unpack the ways in which the ways in which our data has already has already been proliferated on online platforms and different spaces like that even as we aren't the ones who are always mediating it for example how much of myself and I know there was someone I really appreciated not every technology is related to Facebook but on Spotify when someone gives a recommendation back how much of myself has been mediated via corporate lenses for my entire life and hence created somehow the performative body you see before you I'm curious about how that about the body being mediated by data could be a little more complex and intersect with capitalism that's my final sentence off that same thought in the building off of the idea of Facebook I guess I think that there is something to say about the generational relationship to these technologies that there's say variation in parenting styles in relationship to these platforms therefore there's now generations of children whose lives are documented on a platform very much outside of their own agency so whereas we might be able to choose how we opt in and opt out of some of these systems there will be people whose entire lives from birth are documented on a daily basis and how does that bleed into what might be insurance policies in the future when their lives have been documented to such a minute degree so I appreciate that conversation a lot because earlier you dropped the word hegemony into the room and I think that this is if I were going to do anything else in the world I might but because I think about hegemony in the way in which culture impacts the way we look at ourselves and the way we interact with each other I'm in this room right now right that's why many of us do use art and culture as a basis for change and so part of what I want to hmm I think maybe that's just a snap maybe I didn't need the mic but I just really like this idea of our bodies and our presence in the world being mediated by what's coming back to us is about the way in which hegemony functions and tells us this is how we are supposed to interact we're supposed to show off our kids like this and how are we with the work that we're doing using the same even sometimes the same tools to say actually there's another way to do this there's another way to live that's just fine and really unpacking the ways that that the current hegemonic culture makes us truncate our imagination right so this is our sort of penultimate shared breath because we're going to move into the outer circle but just before we do I just thought maybe we could move out with was Lee mentioned your obsession or keeps you up at night with AI and I thought while we were moving the chairs out we could think about sort of building a little bit on what the two of you just said I wonder about how AI plays into this whole question and also as we're making digital plus performance I'm trying to bring it all back together so let's move out into the outer circle and one last big conversation I just wanted to I think yes AI is one of those things that keep me up but I think it's mostly like in all of these systems whether it be true AI and I think what was brought up about this idea of data going back to experience but also like data and intuition which I think I think you talked about it pretty succinctly is still I think like the consciousness that goes into it because I think there's already this misunderstanding we have all these algorithms out there we base a lot of decisions on algorithms we know this well very well documented that these algorithms are very flawed and we get depending on what side of privilege you get benefit or you don't get benefit from these flaws and then also being able to actually defer to the algorithm right and so we're hiding behind a lot of these things already and they haven't even achieved like this idea of consciousness whatsoever but we're deferring to them actually as decision makers and so I think even going back to I don't know trying to bring it back to performance and thinking about how we're being collected through these different platforms and things like that and thinking about AI bringing it back to that is like this idea of like simulation and then like the ultimate performance as we perform ourselves actually that information when it achieves it's utopia will be able to play us back you know and we'll be able to push play on our lives or future lives or iterations of ourselves and so I just think those things are interesting when we start to have this conversation Hello I'm Charles I was really excited when you brought up SkyNet I think that conversation about data is tricky when you think about the platforms and companies and technologies that you're going to bring into the room and into your work and into your processes I think that it was a really interesting framing this morning that technology that we're talking about digital technology is just the latest innovation in terms of human communication and so as that process continues we're talking about it on a human scale today but if you talk about AI and machine learning that's a completely different time scale so if you are bringing voices into the room that are collecting human sensory data human personal privacy data on a mass scale because you're excited about the innovation to your communication that allows you to reach more people you may be ethically like tacitly feeding a process we talked this morning about labor and changing roles too you may be undoing your role in the theater you may be making yourself obsolete in terms of a machine scale of innovation yeah and around the algorithms there's a piece that I'm making right now which I'll talk a little bit more about on Friday but part of what we're trying to address in the piece and bring to the consciousness there's all these studies that say that Americans and people in general don't care that their data is being seen they're like oh my data is being seen I don't care and they won't take action to protect themselves they don't care enough about privacy and there are some ways you can ask the question where they do care but most of the time they don't care and they won't change their actions because they don't see the dangers of it but the algorithms are starting to make decisions that the creators don't understand why the algorithms are making the kind of decisions that they're making and they're starting to make decisions around whether someone gets insurance or not or whether an employee has crossed certain lines during them now or whether what criminal sentence someone should receive these things are starting to be given to these algorithms that are the most pervasive way that ourselves are being projected into that space and so in trying to make the piece one of the things that we're wrestling with is how do you make something that is trying to address the complexity of this issue but how do you make it in a way where it stays human and immediate and emotional enough so that you actually can engage people in a different part of themselves so that they can care about this and that gets to the theatre and technology and how you're putting those things together to make it be visceral and impactful so I think it's a really burning topic right now certainly. Still sitting on two chairs I just, I kind of want to, in listening, I want to flag that we keep bringing up this binary of human and technology especially digital technology and that I feel like that's a little bit irresponsible in a digital performance festival for us to be making such divisions when really we're looking at the intersection in the space between and especially if we consider that some of the sentiments expressed can be read as prioritizing kind of presence or like in person kind of expressions or interactions and just to go back to my point this morning about being more specific about the kind of language we're using I would say that data is not inherently digital in that I think we're talking mostly about big data which is like large data sets that are computational and algorithmic in nature because like the Canadian census is data and it's very useful and it's led to some very good things and amazing decisions but it's not inherently digital, it has been digitized and and I also just want to hope that we steer back to performance that it's not just engaging with the world of technology but that it is performance perhaps that is less human centric or human centered and maybe doesn't operate on understandings of behavior that are inherently just to our own kind Thanks Milton I was actually just going to bring back something you said this morning and now I'm split because I'm really interested in the critique that you've raised but I think I'd like to go back to something you said this morning because for me it's a very hopeful and generative use of technology and the digital plus with respect to being able to look at performance in rehearsal and to review it on a daily basis and actually to think as a director about being in control of certain things over a period of time in that connection with technology to my mind that's a way of regaining a sense of presence in the larger field of feeling like so much of my presence has maybe even taken away from me in the way that I've been created through data and all those sorts of things so to my mind that was a very interesting response to the present world I'm living in connected in a process in a rehearsal hall towards an end goal of a show and I just wonder if you could talk are you working in that way or is that something you just learned about and you're interested in doing more of it's something that had come up as an idea in a proposal that we had put forward with the spider web show about a virtual reality performance lab and being able to record performance using motion capture and being replayed through VR in that we'd be able to witness kind of what is performance again and again and perhaps that performance doesn't have to be necessarily in the same time zone which was really a response to the kind of green screen technology the spider web show in the CDN studio that came out if anyone doesn't know that initiative it's to put multiple people in one rehearsal space using green screen technology that's readily available so green screen webcam and that if you want to look at it online in the CDN studio it's something that spider web show worked on so yeah it's not something that we've put into practice yet but if we've got funding one day I'd love to thank you and then I would just like to dig in a little bit to your comment about the irresponsible way in which we're talking about technology and humans and I'm wondering if you could offer another way for us to think about that I think just generally going back to exploring this kind of gray area language that assumes that one thing is more valuable than the other when inherently as I can't remember whom mentioned it but we are living in a mediated world that a lot of things about data have resulted in the things that we use every day and how we communicate is very much indicative of a time that we live in and I would even go in so far as to say a concrete example is the way we talk about audiences in the kind of work that we create and perhaps that to go back to one of our earlier points that that's predicated on a certain idea of how to relate to our spectators or people who discuss with us the kind of work that we're making and I think it's really difficult in this day and age to make work that is trying to chase sincerity in many ways and this is somewhat of an offshoot point and kind of discussions through technology when it's still being mediated through like you have to pay $15 to have this sincere conversation with someone over text message or something which is an amazing kind of gesture but also I think we have to reckon with this idea of people are under a model of capitalism and having to pay for the certain thing and it's all being mediated through both capital and through a digital kind of platform as well Thank you Alex, we have two minutes left Well it's Alex speaking I suppose I want to respond to that because I'm not sure I entirely agree with the idea that we have been speaking in a way that is binary or I also think there's a difference between discussing technology in an artistic context and technology in a non-artistic context and I know for myself I can say that my relationship with technology in an artistic context is very much about balance and intersections but my relationship with technology outside of an artistic context is not that and I am very aware of the divide between what is human and what is non-human or what is digital outside of my artistic process That's the end of my current thought Thank you, I think that concludes our conversation for the day, did I miss any last no I just want to say thank you for that personally, it was thrilling and terrifying because I always feel like I haven't a clue what I'm talking about and I feel like I learned a lot and I want to thank all of you for being in this conversation and I now pass it over to Jamie Thanks so much, Sarah Okay, so we have a pretty hard out right at five but we'd like to spend just a few moments closing out our time together from this day one of conversation many more days to come and I think to do that I would love to ask everyone to think of either a word or a phrase that you have heard today maybe an image that was spoken today that is sticking with you that you want to carry forward that you want to keep thinking about that you want to chew on over the next few days and we will just pass the mic around the circle and do that and then we'll hand it over to Adrienne right after that so I will I guess it doesn't matter which way we go Great, amazing and maybe we say our name one more time many of us are staying around for longer than today and we want to keep getting to know each other Great, so again I'm Jamie my word is iterative I'm Craig and I guess I'm thinking about the immersive versus the interactive I'm Colleen and my word I'm struck by touch I'm Kristen and Onion Sarah and Fragility Miwa Skynet Trisha Baldwin lasting masterpiece versus temporal art Sophie Anti-fragile Mia Agency, Consent and Mediated Bodies Abigail, Augmented Imagination Charles I'm thinking about the movement of their cosmos similarly John Astrophysicist Claude, Biological Connections Gada, I'm thinking about the relationship between mastery and magic Chantal Participation Roy, Do-Less Better David House, Co-Presence Wes Performance Rob, Agency Tristan Serendipity Alex, The Constellations Sage, Mediated Intimacy I don't have one sentence but the history of ancestors in relation to the history of experimentation Kristen, Blue Streamers Catherine, I'd like to keep thinking about this idea of discovering the human Jenny Sam How very queer stars are Wojtek Korpo, Hegemony Disruption Milton, Big Data Wayne Designing Collaborations Xander Participation and manipulation I'm on the anti-fragile kick and also re-embodiment Felicia, we will be able to play our lives back to ourselves Kevin Digital technology is a natural phenomenon Brenda, I'm also going to go with Touch Kate and I was thinking about authority but I can't stop thinking about the word kinder in my head or like what is it? Lisa Marie Kids Adam Data Disruption Andrew Stellar Nurseries Thank you all so much We will follow up with some emails after this that link out to things such as the live stream archive I believe we've already shared a contact list but just to say we'll make sure to do that work everyone knows how to find each other after this I'm over here now I know, I move I'm on pink I'm actually on pink Oh, you guys had a really nice vibe coming and then I came in the circle and everything fell over Thank you all very much for your time and your focus and your brains today I have a couple small announcements to make that elf today first of all that if you've signed up to view the Electric Company Theatre VR session we're running about 30 minutes behind so whatever time you signed up for add 30 minutes but the meeting point is still the same over here and we're not going to stop until everybody who's signed up has seen the pieces and if that's then come and talk to me afterwards the second thing I wanted to share with you is that dinner will be ready for you at 5.15 I think we'll be ending very close to 5. Here however we do need to clear this space fairly quickly because we're turning it over into a lobby space for an amazing show tonight I can't tell you how excited I am to have choir choir choir come and perform here in Kingston this is a duo who have been doing a weekly sing-along basically in a bar in Toronto and it's part comedy part community singing part community building and part of their description of themselves is that you go out into the night feeling great so if that's not a sales pitch I don't know what is and what I'm even more excited about is that we've established our links with our hubs in Vancouver in Toronto in Montreal it almost makes me want to cry in each one of those cities there's going to be a room full of 30 to 50 people who are also going to be learning Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah in three part harmony and at the end of the night we get to sing that together not just together in our room in this beautiful concert hall here we have colleagues and friends and family all across countries so co-presencing whoever said that over here whoever you dinner is going thank you, you're good dinner is in the art and media lab so to find the art and media lab you walk straight towards the stone wall to your left there's a sign on the wall that says art and media lab it'll direct you to turn left again you'll pass the restrooms as well as a water fountain and I think that's the the last thing, that's my last announcement but I did want to I wanted to insert some mindfulness around how we break this circle because we've spent a lot of time building this space and building these relationships and this is just the beginning a folder this is the pre-event really, this is the tailgate party and our official launch is tonight and we will be spending the next couple days together to me what we've done today is conversation starters and it's given us a chance to see each other's faces hear some initial thoughts and know who is out to get us or not who we want to get closer to to continue a conversation so I want to invite you all to stand and create a circle and I don't know if I'm going to say that I'm going to do the next one thing at a time so we're going to make a circle here together so we're going to be fairly close and let's make some mindfulness around this and see how perfectly a circle we can make if we're in a perfect circle we can see everybody so if you're looking to your right and you can see everybody that's good if you're looking to your left you can see everybody if you can't see them you might have to adjust a little bit you know I'm short so I can never see anybody oh that's pretty good that's pretty good okay so I invite you to look around the circle and see everybody here next I invite you also to take a deep breath and let out a tone whatever sound comes out of your mouth and it might be like which is how I feel but it might be beautiful which is other people might be feeling that we're going to do that three times and after the third when your sound is gone and our group sound is gone I invite you to just step away any questions? okay I'm going to put this down now so this will not be mic'd


Hey guys, what is up? Welcome to my channel. For today's video, we are going to be doing a full face of new affordable makeup. The majority of the items I'm featuring today are from PR. I've been wanting to dig through all of the new affordable makeup. You guys know, primarily a luxury high-end channel here, but nothing makes me more happy than to be able to find affordable products that work just as great as my high-end favorites. And I'm not afraid to share that with you. So main focus of today, I got this really chic package from Elf for their Jen Atkins collection. So I've been dying to play with this. I've just had so much going on. Finally get to dig into that. And then just some accompanying pieces of some new Milani items, some new Colourpop items, Revlon, and a few other things. So let's get into it. Let's do the huge, put a headband on, get uncomfortably close to my face. We're going to start off with priming our face. Now I have two items from Milani. Milani sent me this like honestly amazing PR package that I feel like I don't deserve. But I have a lot of prepping products that I chose to play with. So first thing we're going to do, we're going to dig into this avocado butter lip mask. I was intrigued because UC Jazz said it reminded her of the Laneige and I love the Laneige. And it's definitely very similar. It's a little bit thicker. I feel like the Laneige is a little bit thinner and it spreads a little bit easier. But it like tastes and smells really good. I think I like this so far. Now I want to try out this Milani Cherry Radiance Whale. So this is a lightweight whale that's supposed to nourish and brighten skin for a radiant glow. Now this says to apply two to four drops onto clean skin used every morning and evening. So it's more so a skincare product. But let's try it out. This bottle is absolutely to die for. It feels, you know, not super lux by any means, but it feels really nice for a drugstore product. Just going to put it all over my skin. Now it does have a cherry fragrance to it. So if you're sensitive to fragrance or you're not a big fan, this might not be for you. But it feels nice going on to my skin, but it definitely has a pretty strong fragrance. Okay, last Milani product. But this is going to be our primer for today. This is the Peach Glass Skin Primer with Peach Extract. I love the way this feels.  And I feel like I didn't need to apply too much product. I really, really like this. I mean, so far from what I can tell, it feels really nice. This also has a slight peachy fragrance to it, but it's not overwhelming. I feel like that cherry oil was much stronger, but so far I really like the priming products. I've tried from Milani, like everything from the lip mask to the oil to the primer, because I like the fruity scents. I'm not going to lie. Really excited about that. I didn't have a super new drugstore foundation a while back. Revlon sent over their Color Stay Light Cover Foundation. Now I have the shade Buff and this is way too light on me. And honestly, I've tried this a couple of times. I don't really like it. It definitely emphasizes dry patches on your skin. So that's why I really prepped my skin today. I'm also going to mix some of the Physician's Formula Butter Believe It Foundation and concealer. This is in the shade Fair to Light. This foundation runs a lot darker than you think. I'm not fair to light and this is a good match for me. This guy's a little bit too thick for my preferences. So both of these I've tried before. They aren't brand new, but they're new enough. And my face is going to be really light today. Oh my goodness. I just didn't have another affordable foundation that matched my skin tone. So I'm sorry. The Physician's Formula is definitely a better match, but I guess it's still a bit light for me. I swore it wasn't. I think it oxidizes, but blended in. It doesn't look that bad. You know what? These two actually are feeding off of each other well. Well, I'm just going to let the record stand that I do not like the Revlon foundation alone because I really felt like it emphasized the dry patches on my skin and it also just had it generally uneven coverage. And I definitely liked the Physician's Formula more, but I thought it looked a little bit thick on my skin. But the two mixed together are kind of everything I don't like about them are fixing each other because I know that Physician's Formula is allowing for a more even coverage and the Revlon is lightening up the thickness of the Physician's Formula because all in all, my skin looks nice right now. As you can see, the both of them mixed together. It still gives a pretty light coverage. You can see my skin through, but I am more than okay with that, especially for the summer.  I just wasn't that big of a fan of it, but I don't know, just thought I'd share that. And then there also have been no new concealers to come out that I've tried recently. So Koki sent me a package. So I have a couple items to put on today. So this is the Koki Be Bright Illuminating Concealer. So this isn't new by any means. It's more new to me. These, again, this is pretty light. This is shade light, but good thing everything else on my skin is light. I've used this concealer a couple times and I actually really like it. I think it's nice. It's kind of a middle of the road concealer. You know, it doesn't provide full, full coverage, but it gives more than a light coverage. It spreads beautifully and it wears pretty good as well. So I've been enjoying this concealer and I'm definitely more interested to try a few more things from Koki. I'm going to put just a little bit more right here in this area. And I guess looking, it is so much lighter. So let me put some in the center of my face that it makes everything look just a little bit more even. So if you have a really light concealer, you can make it blend into the skin more just by applying that color to the center parts of the face so that it looks more cohesive instead of just having super bright under eyes. You can see that how that made everything look better. Okay, last Koki thing. I'm going to try out their translucent setting powder. This I have not tried. So we're going to try it out. I might dislike it. I've tried so many different powders lately. I'm going to be extra picky because there have been some really great high end powders that have come out recently. I'm going to use a sponge. I don't normally apply my powder like this, but I just feel like it today. I don't know. I'm not applying any creams to my face. So I'm just going to pack the powder where I need it. And then the forehead is going to be the last spot. Call me crazy, but my complexion looks really nice today. Actually, no, the mirror is too far. Hold on, hold on, let me get a close up look. Okay, close up. It's not as perfect as I thought it was for far. Yeah, definitely some uneven coverage on the cheek. Just like I said, the Revlon did and a touch of dry, just a touch. Nothing crazy. Like I feel like that dryness will go away when I wear it out and you know, my oils come through. But okay, I still stand by that Revlon applies patchy. It does. That's definitely the Revlon. Okay, let's move on to eyebrows. I got a very kind package of some new eyebrow products from ColourPop. So they have these pencils. Let's see. I've never tried the Precision Brow Pencil from ColourPop. So we'll try that because I'm familiar with their Brow Boss pencil. But not their Precision Brow Pencil. Are these the same though? Um, what's the difference between the two? Are they different? I use the Brow Boss. That's a good one. Okay, yes. The Precision Brow is different. It's, I think, Brow Boss and then Precision Brow. Well, since I've never tried the Precision Brow, I guess we'll do that. They sent me the color Banging Brunette, which I don't think is a good color for me. But that's okay. Oh, that's really creamy. Like not in a good way. I'm going to fast forward through this. Catch on the flip side. All right, guys, I'm back to report that I'm not loving how my makeup looks thus far. The skin looks really dry up close. I didn't think it looked bad when my mirror was far away from me. Then I got up close and I was like, oof, the Revlon. I know it's that Revlon making it look dry and uneven. The eyebrow pencil is a bit too creamy for me. I swear my other Brow Boss from ColourPop to Dryer. I don't know if it's because it's older or if the Precision Brow Pencil is just creamier, but I just don't prefer a creamy brow pencil. It applies hair like strokes really nice, but yeah, just, I don't know. And I know my brows are distant relatives. We're just not going to acknowledge that actually. Yeah, we are. I want to try the newest product from ColourPop. These are the Feather Effect Styling Waxes. So they sent me one that's in tinted. It's the brown one and they sent the clear one. I'm just going to try the clear one since I do not want my brows to get any darker. I typically prefer a lighter brow pencil and we also have a spoolie provided for us. So I don't, I have not watched any tutorials on this. Yes. So we do need a drop of setting mist or water. So in the Elf and Jen Atkins Collection, there's a mist. So let's use that. Here's what it looks like, by the way. It's like totally dry. It definitely needs water. Oh, this is Elf. This mist is phenomenal. By the way, this definitely has like a coconut-y scent to it. Probably shouldn't have done that after I did my bronzer, but okay, that's fine. Okay, so I sprayed it. Do I do it? What do I do? Activate the formula. Then using the brow brush, activate the brows in circular motions to create brow like texture. No, this brush is not bent enough for me. That's fine. Okay. So I'm doing circular motions. Um, I picked up some of the gel. I'm going to clean all this up with concealer, by the way. Brow pencil was just too creamy. It's making a mess. Let me try more water. I think I need more. And if you watch my channel and you know I'm not a big fan of a feather brow effect. Guys, look at me right now. Look at me. I'm not cool enough to look like this.  Okay, that actually did stick my brows up. And you can see this brush is like gross now. I mean, they're up. Okay. So I mean, this brow thing worked. If you don't want to spend the money on the ABH one, I like the ABH one better because you don't have to activate it with water. I've never tried the Patrick tall one, but it worked. It's just not the kind of product I typically use, but it worked. Oh my gosh. You guys, I might just have feather brows today because, okay. Now, if you're wondering how we're going to fix this mess, we're going to take some foundation. I'm using the Physicians formula. I'm using this old ABH brush. It's kind of like a paddle brush. Get just a little bit on your brush.  This is instantly just going to clean up everything. I might go around the top too. So I'll be back momentarily. Okay. So say a little bit of concealer. We're looking better now. I can work with this. All right. We're going to dig now into the Elf and Jen Atkin Collection. As you saw, we just did the spray. Spray is cool. But tell me how chic this packaging is, everything about it. So we're going to play with some of the items in here.  I just haven't been able to. So here we are. So thank you so much, Elf, for sending this my way because I'm excited. Oh, okay. This whole time I thought they only sent me the dark palette and I was like, I'm gonna have to make that work. But I just realized they sent me both. It was just hiding underneath. But I can't get it out. So hold on. Oh my God. Okay. So there are two shades of this. Love the clear acrylic packaging. So this is the lighter of the two palettes. And this is the darker of the two palettes. Let me show you. Obviously, I'm going towards the light one. I think I might not. I don't want to touch the dark one. I think I want to give that one away. Let's use the light one because I'm like today. Let me get a bronzer brush. Do I want to swatch these first? Let's do a quick swatch. Oh, these feel so creamy. So here's what the face products look like. They look pretty simple. Nothing crazy. The shadows feel really smooth. They aren't buttery smooth, but they don't have any fallout. Look at these. Just really basic, awesome colors that are great for every day. Let's start off with the bronzer. That looks really pretty.  I always try Elf products. But I'm always so shocked at how well they work. I mean, that's a good bronzer for me. Looks nice. I wish my base looked better, but it looks nice. Let's do the blush now. Now, these all have a pretty flat finish to them. This blush is right up my alley. Pretty simple. Just a great everyday pink. Very healthy looking. Then let's try out the highlight. The highlight looks like it could be a bit dark on me. Let's find out. Oh, no. It has a pretty nice glow. There's not much of a cast. It looks like it's dark. I guess it's not by swatch either. That's pretty.  Look at that. Elf is one of those brands that just makes me question why I purchased so much eye and luxury makeup sometimes because they really do kill it with their quality. Okay. I'm going to put on an eye base. I'm just going to use some... I always do this. Okay. So I'm going to put on an eye base, which is just going to be foundation. And then we'll be back to play with that. Okay. Primer is down. It's time to go in on the eyeshadows. We're going to start off with the tan shade. Oh, gosh. I'm making a mess. We're going to start off with the tan shade right here. And I have to say, as I'm holding this palette, the quality of the packaging is really sturdy. You know how, you know, sometimes plastic packaging and drugstore, it feels like plastic. It feels really cheap. This feels like a nice acrylic component. Really high quality, guys. Can you see that? Added just a touch of depth. We're just going to build right on up. Okay. L, if you guys see how great these mattes are blending. Wow. Don't forget to get down here. I'm going to take a smaller brush. I'm going to go into this more cooler color. This is a great contour color. You can also use this on your face, especially if you have more of like a medium complexion. Guys, I'm really impressed with how this is applying. I'm going to take some of the lightest shade. We're going to apply this all over the lid. Like that. Guys, I'm really impressed. Okay. So also in the collection, there are two eyeliners. They're called zero effort liners. And it's interesting. It's like a square packaging. So cute. I'm going to line my eyes and then we're going to go back into the palette for the deepest shade. Applied with ease. Okay. And then let's see. So not the, oh my gosh, do you see this actually ended up breaking? It's creamy, but it's really thick. So that's kind of not the best feeling. So I'm going to take a little smudger brush from refer. This is the number 29. This is a liner that definitely needs smudge because it's so thick like it spreads easily, but it's hard to spread in the pencil form. You almost need to just put it on and then you'll see how far it spreads. So I don't know that this is going to set because it's so malleable. I don't love this. I don't love a formula like this. I think this is better in the waterline. It's not the most user friendly. And there's also a, I guess this is navy. No, I just used the brown one and the other color is a black one, but I'm using the brown one. We're not done yet. I'm going to take the deepest color now and we're going to create a smoky eye by just blending this right out with the eyeliner. So this is going to help fuse that waterline color into the lower lash line. You see how that made the whole look like sexy and smoky and I'm going to take just a little bit. Hmm. How do I want to do this? I was going to put some like right here. Just a little bit like that and we'll blend it. Okay. I'm going to take some of the brown shade and I'm going to put it right on top of that liner. We're going to take some of the highlighter. That right here inner corner to open up the eye. Okay, you guys this palette. It is the bomb. It is so good. Definitely obviously has the most basic colors that you probably don't need. But if you need these colors, it's super bomb. Okay. So I have a new mascara. This was sent to me from Maybelline. This is the falsies lash lift mascara. So let's open her up. So this is what the wand looks like. She's pretty thick. So I do believe this is a new mascara from Maybelline. Let's just find out what it's all about. It says it's a double curved brush, dramatic length volume and lift. So let's see. The brush is kind of fat and you guys know I don't have the longest lower lashes. So I'm having trouble depositing the product on my lower lashes and also I don't ever really fully judge a mascara based on first use just because I like a more dry formula. But here's what the first coat looks like on eye. Not very thickening. It does add some length, but it's not thickening. Okay, this mascara builds really nice. Look how much length I'm getting. Wow. And I do feel like I'm getting a lift too. Hmm Maybelline. So this is with a second coat. Okay, Maybelline. Let me keep building. Wow. Okay, I'm super impressed with the length of this gave me. Now it didn't give a ton of thickness and volume to my lashes, but it gave just enough to counteract the length where it doesn't look bad. Now I was going to use these new lashes from Salon Perfect. So Salon Perfect came out with a butterfly collection. I was debating between trying 693 and 691, but I actually think I'm going to forgo lashes because I really like this mascara. Oh my, this is so many good finds. Oh gosh, I got to fight with this Jen Askin's package again to get the rest of the products out. Just really quickly, we're not going to try this today, but this is really cool. This is a hair and brow pomade. You can see there's like a brush inside. So this you can use to tame the fireways or for your eyebrows. Today's not the day that I can use it just because my hair doesn't need it nor do my eyebrows. Everything about this collection though, I'm in love with. This is one of my favorite collections from Elle. Okay guys. So last product from the Elf and Jen Askin's collection. These are lip liner and lipstick duos. They look really awesome. I think what I'm doing, bring it on brown. Let me swatch the colors for you because they look so stunning. So here's what the packaging looks like by the way. Really clean, very simple. So this first one is to bring it on brown, which is right here. That's the one I think I'm going for today. This next one is red. How cool. This is ready to go. So this has a bit of a brighter, most oranginess to it. Very cool. Okay, and the last one is self made pink. That looks like it would be a really nice everyday nudie color. I think just with the eye look that I have on now, I want to stick pretty brown. I can see that it's not being that great because it is a thicker product and you can't sharpen it and I like a really sharp lip liner, but it is more of a creamy consistency so you can put it all over the lips and it will work great as a lipstick. And we're putting on the lipstick side now. This side is a little bit rough. It's a bit dry. It's not as creamy as the lip liner. I think I'd almost prefer to put the lip liner side all over my lips as opposed to the lipstick side. You can see my lips look kind of dry, but the colors super pretty. Oh my. So here's my two cents on these lip products. They are such pretty colors. The colors that Jen chose absolutely beautiful. The only thing that I'm not so crazy about is the lipstick side is a bit drying. So make sure you prep your lips or just put a gloss over top. So I'm going to take a moment and get myself together and then we'll go over my final thoughts of everything that I tried today. All right, you guys, I have to say I'm really impressed with some of the products that I tried. So we'll start off with the Milani stuff that we began with. So I really did enjoy the Milani avocado butter lip mask. If you have been interested in trying the Laneige lip sleeping mask, this is definitely, I think a great dupe. There definitely are differences. They aren't the exact same, but obviously if you don't want to spend the money on the Laneige, I really like this Milani one and that scent. Everything really great. The Radiance oil is definitely not going to be for everybody. I'm not super impressed with it. I just kind of put it on. It can't really tell you much about it right now. Smells really great, but that's also kind of a turnoff for some people. So I like it. I don't love it. It's nothing remarkable that I tried today. I know my hair. Sorry. I don't know what to do with this. I did not style it. I put it in a braid the last two days. So it's like struggling to figure out what to do. Anyways, I did however really like the glass skin primer from Milani. I feel like it was very moisturizing. It applied a nice glow to the skin. I'm finding that Milani does a phenomenal job with their primers. So I'm really into this. Unfortunately, neither foundation really does it for me. Particularly the Rebel in Color, say light copper foundation. This is not good at all. I don't like the way it makes my skin look. I don't like the way that it applies. It's just kind of a nod for me. The Physician's Formula Butter Believe It is better in the times that I've worn it. I've never really been super in love with it. So I don't really recommend this from the drugstore either. The Koki products that I tried today, I really enjoy. I think this is a very nice and solid concealer from the drugstore. Same with the powder. I don't think the powder is bad at all. I'm not sure if it gives any flashback or not, but I do feel like it's moved the skin pretty nice. So both of the Koki products that I tried, I'm pretty impressed with. As far as the ColourPop brow products, I'm a brow boss girl. The Ultra Persistent Brow Pencil was too creamy for me. I'm also not the biggest fan of the color, but that's nothing really. I just think it blends too much. It just makes a mess on my eyebrow. Feather Effect Styling Wax is just not a product for me just because I don't really do stuff like this to my brows, but it works. And I prefer the ABH, but I think this is a really nice alternative if you can't pick up the ABH. I mean, it worked. My brows, they feel a little bit sticky, but they're sticking. So if you like that feather effect, this is a really nice product and it's very affordable. So ColourPop, I think did a good job with this. I don't think you need to get a colored one even if your eyebrows are very dark because no light film deposited from the clear one or if you want, you can get the darker one, but you don't need both. The Jen Atkin Collection is probably my favorite collection that Elf has ever come out with. My favorite part of today's video, the Let's Elfin Do This palette. Amazing in every which way. I'm so impressed with this. Obviously, it's nothing really exciting, but this whole collection was about simplicity, everyday makeup, having all you need in one. I think the packaging feels very high quality. I love a clear packaging and the colors worked really well for my skin tone and you saw me apply them. I had zero issues. They blended well. They built up well. So impressed with this palette. Highly recommend it. The face mist, I mean, I just briefly use it, but it's an incredible mist. It does have that scent to it. I don't know if it really does anything, but you're gonna like the mist that gives you. I didn't get to try the brow pomade. The zero effort liner. I think I like better as a water line liner. I don't know how long it's gonna last, but it was a little bit messy on my upper lash line. I just kind of made a wing and then I had to blend it all the way in. It's just too creamy for me, believe it or not. It's just so creamy that it can't even hold itself on the pencil. So definitely great if you love smudgy liner. I love the square packaging of this as well. It's just so pretty, but it's not my favorite pencil and the lip products are a bit dry. The colors are really, really nice and I like the lip liner side, the lipstick side to kind of dry, but for the price, I really can't complain. You know, I think the colors are so good and you can adjust with a really nice lip mask and then some lip gloss on top because these are great for on the go and just having a lot of options. So I still really enjoy these. And then the last new product is this Maybelline, the Falsies Lash Lift. Very impressed for first use and I can only imagine it's going to get better the more that I use it, but first impressions, I mean I am foregoing falsies, which I never do because I would just really like it with this look. So anyways, overall I would say with the exception of complexion, my whole face, I love this look. I love the simplicity. I love the quality of the products that I tried out and I'm really excited if you're going to get one thing. I mean, my must haves, definitely the palette from Elf and Jen Atkin. These colors are so awesome. The mascara is worth trying and I really liked the Milani products. These are probably my top four products in this video. Anyways, I hope you guys enjoyed this video. I hope you enjoyed getting ready with me. I hope you got excited to try some new affordable products and if you aren't subscribed to my channel already, I would love it if you would consider taking the time to do so and I will see you all in the next one. Bye guys, have a good one.


Suspense and the producer of radio's outstanding theater of thrills the master of mystery and adventure William and Robeson Almost every mouth factor starts yelling I was framed as soon as the law puts the arm on him and sometimes they have been Nobody will ever know how many inmates of states prisons are there because of circumstantial evidence of such a one is our story concerned Listen listen then as Charles McGraw stars in the silver frame Which begins in exactly one minute another visit with Joe and Daphne foresight Joe, honey Joe darling put down the paper. I've got something important to ask you. Okay, Joe. All right. All right one How many savings bonds do we have what kind of a question is that a good one? How many I'm not sure I'd have to count and I'm reading the paper. Now. What do you want to know for? Have we got enough to make things comfortable for us very comfortable? That's why I buy in a payroll savings plan a bond a month will give us quite an estate for the future Enough for a college education Eventually, but who's going to college our children silly. We don't have any yet. Oh What do you mean? Oh Better buy some more bonds, honey Daphne you mean we've got a new investment. How about that and now? the silver frame Starring Charles McGraw a tail well calculated to keep you in Suspense They checked me out of the $10 bill in the twenty two fifty suit that the taxpayers give you when you leave I Took a quick look back at the place where I'd left two and a half years of my life in a cell Just because a Southern California district attorney had to have a pigeon in a hurry once Had too bad enough to frame a guy and get a conviction his favorite way Circumstantial evidence I Started walking just walking with no walls or iron bars or guys with sawed-off shotguns to stop me and somebody yelled at me It was a reporter a little rat named Melvin lester who'd crucify his own mother to get a headline I kept on walking See see wait a minute. I got nothing to say to you or the crummy rag you work for the morons that read it Right, all right. Can't you let bygones be bygones? I'm just a guy working for a living beat it. All right. All right So you got nothing to say to me. So What do you say to a thousand dollars? What about a thousand dollars? So you say you were framed How'd you like to get even with who the district attorney all those wise guys? Down there in LA. How'd you like to frame them for a change? For that I get a grand sure.  Let's you buy me a drink first build a booze in more than two years Okay, what's the pitch Melvin? Well? There's been quite a lot of cases like yours lately Circumstantial evidence the DA looking for quick convictions and building himself up for the election, you know, yeah Yeah, I know so all my publishers tangled with the DA a couple of times already. So we want to lower the boom on him That's where you come in How? Like this. There's a dame see what dame now. That's all arranged.  She screams.  I don't have one. So we'll get you one The neighbors hear the scream They see your car driving out the driveway.  Two days later the dame comes back from Palm Springs and we splash it all over the front page Her story your story Circumstantial evidence again. We bring up all the other cases. We just keep right after him In a week that d8 don't even dare show his face on the street. He's dead finished Well How do you like it? I like it Okay, kid You're in. Well, what about the dome? Have now half when we spring yet okay, a Thousand bucks and the d8 thrown in Okay Lester paid my way down to LA bought me a new outfit and a hat with my monogram in the sweatband He rented me a car and checked me into a hotel While I was soaking in the tub He went over to his boss's office the big shot publisher lb rosson brought back five bills and the dame's name and address It turned out to be a beach house at Malibu. This was the first surprise I sort of expected it to be some third-rate downtown hotel But the big surprise came in the front door Mr. Gates That's right. Are you miss miss fox? Yes, won't you come in? Thanks? What's the matter mr.  Attractive is a polite word for it. I guess Why aren't you used to meeting attractive women mr. Gates not where I've been for the past few years?  Well, thanks Why is it you always expect that anyone who's been in prison will be lantern-jawed and have a scar on his face Or something to tell you the truth. I'm a little startled myself Quite a layout you have here. It is nice isn't it right over the ocean? Uh-huh look here at this window You know from this window and the tide is in you can actually dive into 30 feet of water. I've done it That I'd like to see who would you? By the way, what's your first name Steve? What's yours? Silver Silver? Oh, I get it Silver Fox cute. It's my real name too one of dad's ideas Oh, you was a character. Yeah, but and I'm another round. What come on. Come on. What's this all about? What's the angle but what didn't they tell you? Oh sure sure they told me but they didn't tell me anything about a day I'm living in a $50,000 beach house with a half a grand of clothes on her back Steve.  Come on. You're not in this for dough. You're in it for something else and I'm gonna find out what it is Wait you little you didn't have to bite clear through my hand. Did you? Anyway, now you won't have to lie about our having a quarrel will you? Oh It's bleeding here. I'll get something never mind that just talk all right Steve. I Am doing it for the money really. What about all this? The house is rented for only a month and the clothes go back to Western costume.  I'm sorry You know what my father used to say when I was a little girl Character, uh-huh. He'd say I'll kiss it and make it all well Like this Like this it must have been a couple of hours later when we heard the car that was supposed to pick her up Blowing its horn down the road and I let her out the front way as quietly as I could went back to finish up the rest of the job I knocked over a couple of chairs and shove the furniture around some to make it look as though She'd put up a good fight Then I threw my new hat with the initials in the band over in the corner and dropped the bloody handkerchief that I'd wrapped My hand in on the kitchen floor About an hour after that I was back at the hotel. I Corked off as soon as I hit the sack. Hello Excuse me, I must have the wrong number. Oh what number do you want? Excuse me? It was already dawn, so I got up a little later I knew I was gonna have a pretty busy day besides I'd ordered all the morning papers And I want to read about myself when I opened the door to get them.  I'm so sorry. That's all right. Excuse me I looked after him for a second because his voice sounded exactly like the one who'd wakened me on the phone So what I went back to bed with the papers sure enough there It was right on the front page how a young woman tentatively identified as Miss Silver Fox had been murdered in a swank Malibu Beach house and how the police expected an arrest momentarily And how the remains Charred almost beyond recognition had been found in the incinerator That's what it said right there in black type They'd found her body. I was still lying there shaking and looking at the ceiling The DA came for me. All right gates. Let's go downtown and talk it over. We continue with the second act of Suspense What constitutes a symbol of heroism when it comes to one of our best-known military medals the purple heart The symbol is a purple enameled heart within a bronze border Superimposed is a profile of George Washington in his uniform of general in the Continental Army Above is his coat of arms between two sprays of leaves in green enamel. The ribbon is purple with white edges The purple heart was the first American military decoration and was created as the badge for military merit on August 7th 1782 in an order from Washington's headquarters at Newburgh, New York Only three were awarded for action during the Revolutionary War and none after that time Until the order of the purple heart was reinstituted on the 200th anniversary of George Washington's birthday February 22nd 1932 The purple heart is awarded to individuals wounded in action against an enemy of the United States Or as a direct result of an enemy act the blood Often the lives of many brave servicemen backgrounds the purple heart a proud tradition of service and sacrifice and now Starring Charles McGraw act 2 of the silver frame And why did you kill her?   He's right Steve. Why don't you make a full statement? Maybe they were extenuating circumstances Maybe we can make a deal. I've told you I've told you the whole story. I've been framed sure you're always framed What about the blood? What about your hat? What about the body?  Oh, he did look he's covering. He's scared.  Why not he's in the morgue Who killed him that's our worry boy.   You understand we'll get the details later All you have to do is sign I'm not going to sign anything you wrote. Okay, write your own statement. I don't want to write anything Well, what do you want you just let it look? Take me out there to her place. I'll go through the whole thing for you just the way it happened every word every move You can have a sonographer take it down and then I'll sign it. Well, I Guess there's nothing wrong with that. It's a deal then it's a deal It was dark when we got out to the beach I was taking a long crazy desperate chance and I knew it. It didn't work. Well the spot. I was in it would make much difference anyway And then we were inside of the house and they were all standing around and I was in the center of the stage All right, Steve. Do your stuff well, we had a few drinks and Well, I hadn't been in the same room with a woman for two and a half years and I Now anyway, she fought me off and that's when she bit me That happened here. We were standing right here. Then what happened?  Yeah Yeah, about there. What did you do? Well, she bit me it hurt. I was startled I backed up a couple of steps toward the window until I was standing about here Then what did you do then I jump? In just a moment we continue with the third act of Another visit with Joe and Daphne foresight Okay, Daphne the slides are all set turn off the lights there. Oh Joe isn't that pretty? Where was that? That was veiled pass on the grand divide Remember how hard the wind blew? I certainly do and it was cold, too Next time we go on a vacation. Let's get an earliest start. Well, we save money by wait until fall Remember this one. Oh sure that Zion National Park. Oh, it was lovely We sure had a lot of fun on that trip was worth the money. It was a good investment All right, almost as good as savings bonds. There you go again Well, I just can't get over how good a bargain. They are we women like bargains, you know Oh, I know I know that and four dollars back for every three investors is a pretty good bargain, right? Oh, was that where I fed the bear? Yeah, that's your sanity. We were lucky that bears weren't already in hibernation How do they live when they hibernate on fat? They store up during the warm months just like savings bonds, huh? Well, you buy a saving bond a month, right? Yeah, and it's a great way to save the way those bonds rack up interest, right? Right, so we're just like the bears We're storing up fat for our future use at interest rates that give us four dollars at maturity for every three invested Very interesting idea. You can learn a lot from nature. Yeah, just imagine smoky the bear selling savings bonds Oh Joe show the slide and now starting Charles McGraw act three of the sober frame One thing I can do is swim brother. I did some plain and fancy swimming that night Even with my clothes on I must have made 30 yards underwater before I had to come up for air I could see them running around with flashlights on the beach But out where I was it was dark as a pocket. There are only five of them. They couldn't cover the whole beach I made for a little rocky point about a hundred yards north and pulled myself out of the water I could see the flashlights all huddled together down by the house and I started crawling up the embankment to the road At the top I stopped for a second or two listening and then poked my head over the edge And right into the face of the little man. I'd seen that morning in my hotel I grabbed him hard. Please don't sound and I'll kill you. I won't I want to help you that that's why I'm here You got a car of course right here right by the side of the road then head for it I'll be right behind you one funny move and I'll break your neck and I mean it. Yeah. Oh follow me Here's the car. You see yeah, well get in hurry Oh boy You sure led me some wild news chase today Uptown downtown out to the beach and then you jump out the window into the ocean. Oh boy I sure earned my money today from who pays you your money or the person I work for who's that? Well someone who's interested in your welfare. Come on. Come on. What's behind all this? Please mr. Gates if you'll just be patient a little longer. I promise you that where I'm taking you you'll get all the answers After climbing up through the Malibu Mountains for a quarter of an hour We turned in at a big iron gate and drove through about three acres of a state I had a hunch whose place it was and the house made the hunch look even better big and impressive and strictly top bracket Milton rang the bell But when the door opened my hunch blew higher than a kite because standing there was the girl. I was supposed to have murdered silver fox Steve he escaped out of the beach house. Don't let that man in here. Don't be silly darling We've got to let him in now. I kind of thought I'd find you here mr. Rossin. It is mr. Rossin the eminent publisher, isn't it? I don't know who you are. I don't know what you're talking about I think you do we better kill him now mr. Rossin. That's the best thing to do That's why I brought him here. You put away that gun Milton and stop acting childish. All right now just for openers Who's Milton? Well, let's say he's my brother. All right, let's you're very foolish not to let me kill him now He's a very dangerous man. Please. Please don't talk about things like that Well Steve it looks as though we'll have to come to some sort of an arrangement. You want to tell me about it Yes You see Charlie that is mr. Rossin what he's been very good to me for the last year So and the house was rented in the clothes go back to Western costume Well, you don't expect a girl to tell a man everything the first time she meets him. Do you okay? So he's been very good to you. Yes, in fact He even ensured my life and made my brother Milton the beneficiary for how much? $300,000 gates. I swear to you I knew nothing about this the proposition that Lester put to you was Absolutely genuine. Well, maybe it was to start with But mr. Rossin I think I could make a pretty accurate guess as to who suggested the little stunt of framing the DA It was silver wasn't it? Yes, it was I thought so She's a very smart girl this one By the way, what happened to your reporter Malvin Lester who can trust a man like Lester something had to happen to him And the girl in the incinerator just a girl a friend of mine and nobody really so you kids collect the insurance And I hold the bag is that the way you want it mr. Rossin? No, no, I had no idea silver would do a thing like this How long do you think an old goat like you is gonna hold a doll like this when once she gets her hands on heavy dog? I think we can settle this mr. Rossin Of course, there's been a couple of murders before we can get the cops off her next They're gonna want somebody to pay for them if it's money Oh, no, no can do not a murder rap. They'll want a victim a patsy. I don't understand Why not Milton here? He actually did the killings boy. I all right. I warned you Thanks, baby You really have got everything, haven't you even your own gun? Well a girl needs protection sometimes Well, there's our patsy get the money Steve Milton's got it on him. You got it that quick big newspaper men have ways of arranging these things 300,000 bucks cash. It's pretty isn't it? Yeah Steve yeah, I've been thinking about something So I'm you and me What about your sugar daddy here? Oh, he couldn't say anything. He wouldn't dare silver baby. How could you we've got the dough? Yeah, yeah, it could work. Oh, I know it would darling. Okay But you'd better give me that gun of yours. All right Steve Thanks But what are you doing getting some law to clean this up? Give me the DA. He'll talk to me. Tell him it's Steve Gates Farley while I've solved your case for you. You'd better come out here 1124 Balano Canyon no no no two of them a little stiff named Milton and a dame named silver Fox Got drunk the night she went to the gas chamber, but I couldn't get drunk enough. I heard all the reports in the radio And you know the funny thing right up to the last minute. She was still saying she'd been framed Suspense In which Charles McGraw starred in William and Robeson's production of the silver frame by William Spear Supporting mr. McGraw in the silver frame were Tracy Roberts Jerome Thor Chester Stratton John Hoyt Dawes Butler and Jack Crushan listen Listen again next week when we return with Herbert Marshall in the long shot Another tale well calculated to keep you in Suspense Suspense has been brought to you through the worldwide Facilities of the United States armed forces radio and television service