Hello and welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I'm very excited to be not only having a Three-person episode myself included two awesome guests, but also it's about Orange County drums and percussion, which is Kind of an elusive episode that's been hard to book But I've had some help from my friends here who were joining me today We have mr. Michael Kelly who was a very early employee of the company Worked there for a long time. So Michael welcome to the show. Thank you And Jared Fallon who has been he and I have been talking for a long time on social media about making this episode happen And he's been a good fan and supporter of the podcast. So Jared, welcome on Thank you. Yeah, and Jared so I will say you yourself are a collector and restorer and really an OCDP fanatic Which is awesome. So you're you're a good man to have on this show as well And I think thank you the way we'll handle this again because I think having both you guys on is awesome with some different Perspectives we'll talk to Michael a little bit more about the beginning of the company because he was there And then we'll hop over with Jared about really what? Filling in some gaps and the collecting of what happened in the later years of the company So there's a lot of cool stuff to happen I feel like we should say right off the bat that there's some some very unfortunate stuff happening right now with Jeremy Berman who worked Orange County and it has fallen on some hard times So this is odd timing that it worked out with this so close to that But we really really hope he pulls through and and is absolutely and is feeling better soon. Yeah that being said All right, Michael, let's hop over with you my friend and let's let's talk about the The origins of the company and we can kind of do it two ways We can talk about your introduction with the company with Orange County And then also really the origins of it with Daniel Jensen and all that good stuff So I'll let you take it away. Well, I moved to Southern, California when I was 15 and Soon after I got my driver's license and immediately set out to get drum heads and found a music shop called the music house in El Toro off El Toro Road in Southern, California and Went in and they really dealt with like Rentals like high school band rentals and stuff like that So the guy that worked there was trying to dig out heads and finally was like You know what you bro? You need to go across the street to Orange County drum They're literally one exit up across the freeway. It was actually Taylor Hawkins So he was working if he was just a local shaggy-haired look at a beach drummer It's time who hung out almost every day at Orange County drum So I went over there and just as soon as I walked in it was just like the first thing I saw was Daniel's massive purple kit with the 24 by 30 kick drum It was 24 by 30 24 by 30 14 by 14 Tom 16 by 16 floor Tom 18 by 18 and 14 by 14 snare All purple and black all piste black vision symbols and just a collar lock rack So it's just like I was blown away and I knew like this is where I'm gonna be So I just pretty much went there every day and just begged him for a job and just pretty much didn't take no for answer And I mean so they sat me down and said okay, you can work here But we're gonna pay you $5 an hour and we're gonna pay you in drums because we can't pay you in cash So I was like hell yeah Yeah, yeah So yeah sat down there every day and started out just like shining symbols and assembling kids because it was just retail I mean they did like a lot of restorations and rewraps and re-edging it did some custom work But it definitely wasn't wasn't the main thing they did. I mean it was retail So it was a shop like it was oh, yeah, it was a drum store percussion. Yeah, it was that's why it's orange Drum percussion we had percussion room a similar room with a slight glass doors and that was soundproof with all the cymbal trees I mean it was it was like a little retail drum shop a bad ass one But yeah, yeah, and we dealt with all like the local pros from you could say from like LA to San Diego And just you know everywhere else, but it was just all the local pros They knew where to come come into Orange County drum So it was just kind of like a local drummer hang. Hmm. Yeah, that was what was cool about it now So that's kind of your introduction into the company and everything now I'm sure you know a little bit more information about so Daniel Jensen is the founder of the company, correct? What is can you give us which Daniel is a busy guy? We've I've tried to get there's a lot of Orange County employees and like I said it can be a little bit elusive But he he drum texts with Travis Barker and a few other people right that are very I believe so I'm not sure what he's doing now, but I know he was with Travis forever Okay, so hard guy to get nailed down, but that being said I think you you guys he wouldn't mind if you speak for him a little bit and kind of say say a little bit about the back history Yeah, I mean I can really just speak on what I went through just that time that I was there up until probably 2006 You know I was I started touring full-time in 2000. So I would just when I would get off tour I would go back there. I'd always fill back in but that's when Jeremy and those guys were really Really doing it hold it down got it Yeah, and there's so I was there like for the very beginning like all the no-doubt stuff the 311 stuff the early food fighter stuff Really when the origin of the company was starting we were really working out the edges working out all the marking the badges That's really when other than the shark tooth lugs and a lot of other designs came in later on like all the hybrid shells and all the crazy stuff sort of come in that that happened later on but Really we the origin really happened at Lake Forest on the Lake Forest Location gotcha and now what year would you put that at as like is the transition from like a drum shop To a like to like the brand that we all see with like Travis Barker and like like becoming like it started to happen It started to happen in Lake Forest. That's when we got 311 and no doubt and that was really that Chad was Our everything at that point in time. He was our main guy Adrian obviously to but uh Yeah, that was the main thing and then when Travis came in Travis still was with the aquabats when we were dealing with Travis in the very beginning You know it was a You know it was a took a while before and then he got with blank and so Travis in the very beginning wasn't our main guy So that really I would say, you know once 2000 hit, you know late 90s 2000s gotcha got with blank then that that's when that whole thing really started and that's when I kind of started Going on tour. So I wasn't around the shop as much at that time gotcha interesting. Yeah, that that man That's just like that Orange County was like the perfect. I mean 311 blank went 82. No doubt It's like a special Time of like those bands of like an orange county is just so much a part of it and I remember there was a An issue of modern drummer where they were doing a Travis Barker giveaway and he had like a yellow orange county kit Or something and it was like I just remember I have a flyer right behind me Yeah, exactly. I mean it was like iconic as every kid and adult was just looking at going. Oh my god. Yeah Man, but we were at lake forest. Yep, and then it was time to move So we moved into we moved all the equipment into Daniel's garage. That's where I was living at the time So I was living downstairs. He had the master bedroom and his mom We got it was living it was one big house at the time Wow So that was that was orange county drum John would come he would drive over every day and we built they built a our router booth a soundproof router booth right in the garage And that's where we did it. So as we're going here. Can you also mention because I think orange county has has Employees who have gone on to do other awesome things and it's just kind of like a it's just a special Like in general it's like what it's like a tv show or every single actor on the tv show went on to do other awesome Shake, you know, I don't know. I don't know about every actor. But yeah Yeah, okay. So so let's go maybe through a little bit continue with the timeline here But like also just mention like some some names and what people were doing along the way Sure. Well, john was daniel's partner and they worked at west coast drum that before orange county drum That was a another local Drunk shop retail store did restorations and rewrapped same thing And they they worked with another guy nicky at this is back in the late 80s And that's when they decided daniel hit them up and they all started orange county drum I don't know if it was 89 or 90 and that's I got in with them. I think probably maybe a year or two years after they started But uh, and then nicky was the main builder. I really learned a lot from nicky He was the one who really showed me Nicky was the main builder back then. No, that's good to know because I was going to say these drums are They're not just flashy cool-looking unique drums. They're also famous for how they sound and the craftsmanship. Sure. So well When it first started it wasn't nearly as flashy. I mean, we were doing we were wrapping a lot of drums and just straight lambing it Um, a lot of plastics. We were doing satin finishes and we would send out for high gloss, but there was no badges Um, the edges were different. They were being done quite differently back then and they weren't that wasn't the main thing They weren't doing nearly as much custom work. I mean they were doing some but You know, it wasn't the main thing by any means and slowly it just once we got badges and we started getting more and more people playing them or I should say daniel got more and more people playing them than uh Yeah, that's when it really started taking off. Yeah, that's when as soon as we got chat and adrian That's when it started to change. Well, it's like and then we went to the garage and then uh Once we were in the garage, I forget maybe a year and a half two years We're in the garage. I think and then that's when we moved into santa anna and that's when we got some other That's when jeremy came in. I think jeremy is one of the first guys That came in I believe so gotcha.  I'm assuming that the the the quality went out Yeah, the price went up throughout the years. Yeah, because I've got a little price list I've got a whole price list back from way in the garage. Yeah, and it's like yeah People still wish they were that price. Oh, you know, man. Yeah, I remember pricing went out I mean, I was like 13 or 12 years old going to the website like let me look at how much one costs It ended up being like a $6,000 drum set and I was like, okay. Yeah, never mind. Yeah Oh, I want this option. I want that option Yeah, which but they're they're worth it. So all right, let's let's so we're at santa the santa anna shop and Like you said, things are becoming more and more flashy because it really I think orange county is really a predecessor of like brands like like sjc and these boutique brands where It's really the blueprint of like the flashy legs. I agree a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, well, I will say like, you know, we that stuff had started in late forest We were doing vintage snare drums. We were doing them a lot of the offset lug configurations a lot of that stuff was already being done But uh, the newer guys once they stepped in jeremy max and those guys They really were starting to do some stuff that was really they took it up a level So, I mean, I got to give props to those guys I I can I was there for the origin a lot of the stuff But then when I would get back off tour like the stuff that I was seeing was just like And then I was actually on tour with angels and airwaves. I was adam's drum to adam willard's drum tech Yeah, that's when jeremy was really the stuff that he was sending me out there was just like Awesome like the hybrid stuff the metalwood combinations I mean, then they started doing the hollow bodies and I mean just the the stuff that they were doing was above and beyond I mean, I was kind of there for a lot of the cool stuff But it really they just took it to the next level. Yeah one side was yeah well It's it's an interesting thing too because the it seems like the type of music began to like I don't know like like, uh, like no doubt that kind of scoff feel and these pop punk bands like Things started to get cranked higher and the vented snares and all that and the thin the littler toms It just became like a thing and like the jellybean kits and all that stuff so like I don't who knows if if orange county was like really if if the music scene was Determining how you guys were building drums or if the way you were building drums was having a an effect on How things were sounding, you know what I mean like which one came first Well, I think maybe a little bit maybe it well ah You know the sound it was just the sound in that in the mid 90s 311 when I when 311 came in the mix chad snare sound was really kind of That really shook things up and in my opinion at the time people were freaking on chad snare sound So it was really a good time. It was a really good time for us to pick him up And and it really kind of I think defined our sound same with adrian I mean I I say chad a lot because you know, he's a such a bad astronomer. He's such a creative mind behind one does but uh Yeah, but that whole sound I mean it was really that was just what was happening at the time and it really I I think Yeah, I mean I think probably Yeah, yeah, I don't know what which one came a little bit of both. I don't know what came first Yeah, to me again looking on the website You obviously had your major label players and stuff But you can't really a business can't run just on making drums for like three mega artists So at that point you guys were also like custom shop making things for everyone Oh, you were yeah, we did more work for regular people than we did for artists I mean at least at that time. Yeah, and I think that's probably how it was even towards the end. I mean They were always selling. I mean especially towards the end. I'm sure internationally much more. Yeah, it was always Selling to the masses now was there usually a long wait time to get a drum set in in like the heyday of like Everyone wanting an orange county kit. Was it like a year out typically to get a kit or how did that work? Jared could probably answer that more. I mean back when I was I mean it was It wasn't too long, but I'm sure probably towards the end when I wasn't there. I'm sure it was probably more like that I'm sure I don't was that how it was Jared. Yeah, I mean it kind of varied I mean I remember reading things anywhere from like, you know six to eight months I know cats would order a kit and then immediately put it up on ebay and try to get a price out of it So people didn't wait And then I knew that's probably why they sold out every time at the nam show That's interesting Because people were just like, you know, that's the flashiest stuff they had it was, you know Like a candy shop and people were just grabbing it because especially international And I think that's why some of the craziest rare orange kind of stuff typically ended up overseas Like that's usually when I'm collecting stuff that's usually where I find the wow. What is that? That's interesting, right? They come over from Japan and just buy it up and take it home. Yeah Well, obviously jenny culture they're very big into american culture. That's kind of their thing But oh, yeah, some of the most ridiculous drums The like they're hollow bodies that is referring to mine came from overseas Interesting made a long trip away to come back To you I've been somebody like the the drum shows and you do see you hear the rumor of Like japanese collectors walking around filling up a container Of stuff to send back Because of the market there being so uh, oh, yeah, you know, right? Yeah, they do it with guitars or anything else They would buy the the top of the line stuff buy full booths and then just send it back over there Yeah, yeah, yeah, but um, yeah the wait times I guess varied between, you know, what it is Ordered because they had different tiers like I remember if you looked at their layout it would be like type one It would be like standard laminates type two would be like, you know satin stains or just Our natural oil stains then like type three is when you start getting into the the crazy paints and uh sparkle glitter Raps and stripes we consider type three right here this middle. Okay behind you It's just like a yeah, he's got a near purple stained Quilted veneer got it with a high gloss the one he's got the slate above would be like a type five Which is like a plaid wrap that's been painted and all that the you know Stuff that you would typically see so I guess it depended on what tier you ordered or if you order offset lugs or Powder coating whatever you ordered I guess would dictate how long yeah, that's interesting You said powder coating because one thing I think I learned about powder coating Because of looking at like orange county like like rims and Before that I was like But now but I knew because I knew I wanted it Also for me It was like I'm sure you can remember this you would see the whatever color the Hardware was say it was lime green. They would also have like a matching badge for it and for me as a kid I thought it was the Coolest thing I'd ever seen. Yep Hands down like wait What because I'm used to like, you know, I remember growing up looking at like old Ludwigs like ah Who cares about ringo? You know what I mean? And then you see this. Yeah, what it's almost in a way Uh, it's it isn't it isn't but it's almost like like a like it's defined Against the traditional american brands, which we all love the Ludwigs and the slinger lens But it's like it's like here's something different. This is our generations. I mean this is you know I feel like people born in like 80 90. This is like the it screams like early 2000s. It's like this is different This isn't a 1960s drum set. This is like this is our special thing Well, you know at the time when we when I first started working there I mean there was really not there was pork pie. I was talking to Jared about this But there wasn't really anybody doing anything that crazy. I mean it was still drums were coming out of the 80s So it was still the metal scene was still going to still big power toms And queen's right was still banging on the radio. I mean it was still It was still transferring over so orange kind of drum really came in right They kind of were they kind of found their own little niche at the time I think and that's why I think a lot of companies that came after them you see But they started kind of a trend So it's like yeah, in my opinion, they're kind of one of the first ones If not, well, I don't want to say the first but one of the first ones To get in on that. Yeah, I mean, we've learned we've learned from other I mean, I've learned from watching other episodes There's sometimes as parallels where you figure out like who's the first to create Acrylic drums and simultaneously you might have five or six people doing it I don't want to say orange county was the first But uh, yeah, when you come to think of it, I think there might have been only a few cats doing Custom stuff aren't county. Well, there was I I had never seen I had never seen a big hole in a snare drum in my life before Daniel came up with the idea to put a idea to put a hole in a snare drum, which I mean it came from a Yeah, the idea of a A little would call a seam slotted snare drum But you get that has to be eight inches ten inches deep You got to have high tension lugs on it So the idea was kind of get that concept and you could put on any size drum Just put a big hole in it. So yeah Before that I'd never seen that idea. I mean it was so just an example. I think orange county drum innovated that And it's and it's Absolutely, which I got all right. So that's a topic we got to talk about is vented snares because I mean Like let's all right. So this is we're on youtube as well But let's let's maybe for people driving in the car describe You know, if someone hasn't seen or heard of a vented snare either one of you guys, uh What what is it? What's the point of it? You kind of explained a little bit about the history of it Talk about vented snares You want me to take it jaren? I'll take my take on it. Um, I mean you're the um I credit him for coming up with the 20 ply shell But uh, essentially a vented snare When you think air vents on a drum Most typically we have one air vent. It's only about a half an inch summer like three eighths The vented snare that he's referring to are Big large holes two and a quarter or two inches all the way up to four inches And there's typically depending on the size of the drum Anywhere from you know four to I mean we've seen I've seen stuff. Yeah a hundred vents on a snare drum, but uh A vented snare is basically a snare drum with holes drilled into it and it um It's very dry very loud I would say you get more of the uh head sound low end. It's not warm. Hmm. Yeah, it's it's kind of unfortunately Uh, I as much as I love the brand I feel like it's it is a very one-trick pony But um, I think what did it for people is just the sheer volume and the the ghost notes and the snare because you hear a lot of the snare Well the inside like inside of the snare sound just goes out So like if you're looking at the side of a vented snare drum, you're looking straight in at the of the underside of the snare wire So it's literally just projecting straight out. So it's just a really exaggerated snare sound Basically, and it looks cool And then yeah, it does look cool. And I think uh, the timing of it. I think a lot of artists um, and uh Maybe producers kind of got along with like, uh, I would say like limb biscuits stained those big bands when they started to make a break I think they really started propelling that You know what I mean?  Yeah, you can't forget it. Yeah, and I mean collectibility wise I feel like it's like, uh You know People who are snare collectors would want to have one because it's kind of like a what is that? You know, like I I need to have and but you said there's a hundred on some or I've seen that where it's like swiss cheese I think I think the one we did have I think it had 42 holes I believe I think it was a burgundy satin finish but that was on like florist It was one of the yeah something like first ones we did and it was just swiss cheese like we're talking about construction wise is that just get a You know around get like drill it out drill it out. I'm sure there's some more precision to it But what would the construction process of something a vented snare be like? Yeah, just drill it out and uh, there's a tool that they use to to sand it Sand it in basically just we when we first started doing it for the first few years I forget how long everyone was hand drilled hand filed and then hand sanded You have to start on one half work the half go from the inside and flip the drum over do the other half and Shape out the flares inside and out It was all hand filed and hand sanded Just all the way to the end and then hand lacquered and then another tool came in later on into the mix that really kind of Streamlined it made it way better and way faster I think uh bark can also agree with me As a kid going to either local shows or like i'm sure every kid has tried to drill a hole Because of orange county in their snare drum in some way shape or form sure probably many I'm sure probably many of them went straight all the way through from the outside and blasted straight through the inside Without stopping coming back through. Yeah, I'm sure The amount of butcher drums orange county is responsible responsible for Every kid i'm sure Yeah Like uh that you just kind of put on there It kills me how many orange county drums that people decided they wanted to rewrap and refinish It's just beyond me that like so many of them I mean jared tells me stories and so many people just like i want to rewrap this i've added more holes to this I did this it's like Yeah, so many of them got Ruined I think they also don't understand that like in the grand scheme of things orange county is so Still relatively small And the number of drums that they pumped out I will grab uh, I'll collect them and I get one and I'll be like, uh, this one's a weird one I've never seen it before I'll ask somebody who used to work there come to find out like oh well that used to be dave groler Taylor hawkins from their side project and I almost refinished it You know things like that so I always tell people when they're I get hit up all the time to get asked uh, hey I want to redo this or I want to I do it more on it Do you does it need to be like is the wrap bubbling is the powder coating? If things bench or things not working I have nothing against that but uh to take a perfectly good finished drum and Change the color of it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, but by nature orange county is a very like customizable brand So I guess the people who were buying them like to have custom customized things that are really unique But I guess it's different if the original brand is customizing it Well, it's like it's like buying a vintage car. It's like buying a vintage having a vintage car or a vintage anything and completely repainting it Putting new bumpers on it changing the interior color. It's not original anymore. It's not it's you totally Killed its value. So the most valuable vintage anything is the ones that are all original original paint original condition Preserved, you know, that's always going to draw the most thing Let's hop back on kind of going through the history of the company a little bit more with so we were at santa Anna just just checking in about how many drums orange county was really producing Like in a day or a month like how many drums were being cranked out? um Because these again are like hand-built drums. These are not mass produced what was uh Maybe at its heyday what like at the prime like 2000s. Is that fair to say that that would be the like What would be the peak? I would say yeah, I would say mid 2000s How many drums were being cranked out a day drum sets snares whatever at its peak? Well, I can't speak too much on it because I was like I said, I was really touring a lot at that point in time Early on it was more like I would build a snare drum from start to finish I would cut I would cut it out of the tube Do everything all the way to the point of assembly and that's really how I like to build drums But you know, that's you can't do that once you start really cranking them out That's just not what you can do So when I started coming back in the 2000s when I would get off tour when I would go back It was getting more More of a not mass production feel a little bit more of a factory type assembly line Yeah, I would go back in and they just had me. Yeah, they just had me doing vents I would just sit in there and just grind out vents and vents and vents And that's just hand me a snare just do the vents pass it on It's just all I was doing and I wasn't enjoying it at the time. I was complaining about it. I'm sure But that's the like yeah But they was getting more like they had to be like that. I mean, that's the way it goes in any company That's that's you got to have departments and that's what you do in that department And that's and they started getting more but it wasn't ever fully like that But it was I mean, I don't know what they were cranking out per day But they were definitely moving a lot more When I was going back later Jared any insight on that because I'm sure you've followed like serial numbers and things like that of Ironically enough They don't really have serial numbers Oh, that's good to know. So that's the other thing is I was about to say is it's almost I've tried because I've been asked this before And I'm sure even if you had asked Daniel or anybody else who was there for a very long time I don't think anybody knows the answer to how many drums were actually made It's kind of a guess. Um, I there because Again, like Mike said in the beginning They didn't even have badges on the drums. It wasn't really I don't think thought out that way Like oh, we're gonna be doing this for quite some time and it's going to take off So they literally just had a local trophy maker make badges Everything was always local to where they were. Yeah His name was his name was lu And I honestly I can't speak for Daniel, but I honestly don't think when Daniel started orange kind of drum He realized what it was going to become. I don't know. I don't know if he necessarily had the the vision To say this is what I mean, maybe he did maybe I'm wrong, but it definitely seemed like it unfolded as time went on I mean, I think he was just wanted a bad-ass local drum shop flying by the city You know and wanted to work with john and nicky and he was young at the time So I'm not sure if you realized what it was what he was creating But uh, it definitely unfolded into that that's what I mean I'm sure it was an afterthought to be like, hey, let's put serial numbers on these if somebody calls or wants to Match up something, you know, I don't think they thought that far ahead because I can't tell you I mean just when I think I've seen everything Somebody will post something for sale and I go where was this thing hiding or like I've never seen that Not that they'd had catalogs and they had, you know, their website, but they weren't very Um, it wasn't like internet was now where you have to post every day on social media On like instagram like your latest build or something. I think they were just pumping not pumping, but um Rolling these things out not really thinking. Oh, well, we should have taken a photo of that too late now Um, so I don't think you're just working and working. Yeah. Yeah at the time at the time I mean it didn't seem like you have a number I certainly didn't realize that it was going to be what it became I mean when I kind of found that Orange County drum group on facebook later on like I was kind of shocked I was like, wow, there's people that are this into it and like it's a thing Like I just I was out of touch. I kind of was going through my own thing for a long time So I was wasn't I didn't know what was going on with the company But yeah at the time back in the early At late 90s early 2000s I certainly didn't realize that it was that it was Something that was going to be iconic and it was going to be people were going to Be talking about probably forever. It was going to be part of drum history No idea. No idea. It is it it 100% is a part of drum history because it's like it's just its own category And and going back real quick.  I'm not sure. I'm sure probably Daniel and John Yeah, and those guys because it's iconic.  Oh these letters all kind of russian doll into each other But it's like, you know that had to take some thought and some designing and uh, it it is it's cool It fits. I don't know it feels If that point times Daniel was really the visionary behind the whole thing. I mean Daniel was really Really into it. That was his life. That was his passion And uh, he's really he's really the reason why they got the people that he did I mean, he's he he's got the gift of gab So he you know, he really got out there and he's the one that Got all these artists and got these people to be into his company. I mean, I give props where props are due I mean, he really kind of It's really he's the one that kind of generated the whole thing turned it into what it was, you know Also, yeah, just maybe back up a little bit So in regards to what we were talking about the local trophy guy and same kind of thing I don't think Daniel might have thinking along the lines of um, You know, hey, it's going to be this massive company, but everything was like, oh Powder coating we got a guy down the block who does that.  And he was like, okay, and then actually this this right here When we were designing them We uh, Daniel and I were like, how big can you make it? Like what's the biggest size you can make and he was like, oh, I think I can make it like six by 12 We're like make us two of those we need to just and so I kept one and Daniel kept the other and that's that's what that is Yep, and to describe for the audio folks. He's got an awesome like a jumbo badge If you're listening to the badge to end all badge It is a play it's a trophy Yeah, but uh for me like that was the cool thing and Later on as people asked me to restore these things I found it so fun to go down and track down Where they got these things like you would see um, like a louis vitan snare drum show up on uh from orange county You're like where why and then you'd find out. Oh, I got this at the fabric district Or like oh this um, this guy was a local painter. There was always something so for me it's always trying to find tracked down like the uh The original paper trail to try to keep more authentic, you know Yeah, and if you and if the and I was telling jared It's telling jared the older drums if you were to take off the badge You'll see the file marks lou would after he would trim and cut them He would take each one by hand. He would file the backs file off the birds So if you take off the old badges and you see file marks, that's from lou Wow, did he do we'll get to the like later It's sort of it turned into something the company turned into something different like guitar center and all that But did did lou with the trophy shop? Did he do like all of the like Custom shop ones or did that did that change at some time to need to be He did he did all all the stuff at lake forest all the 311 stuff all like Jared's got some of the badges like he's got it. We did alien head badges. We did crop circle badges I mean we just do because chad was literally like I want crop circles on my drums I want aliens on my drums and we're like, okay Like I think the alien head was an alien workshop sticker He gave us it was like a skateboard company. He's like that's the alien head I want So we literally just got those and brought him to lou and he made a digital image of it and engraved it So that's he was just doing him next door. I don't know how long lou did the badges I'm not sure probably at the end. He wasn't doing him. I'm assuming but yeah, like like Mike saying I'm not sure either. Um, I do know that there is like a Certain error of when like the spacing of the holes for the badge changed slightly And I don't know if that's just the idea of being handmade from a local trophy guy And they just that batch was different or if it's they had switched to somebody else I honestly don't know but um, yeah Yeah, I'm pretty sure he did the badges until the company didn't make custom shop anymore Yeah, I don't know lou lou was lou was really old even in the late 90s lou was like in his ace So I don't know. I don't know. Wow. I don't know if lou was making him towards the end or not Yeah, so that's what I mean. We don't we don't know Yeah, and I mean it hits a cost prohibitive That's why brands like like at some point you get so big that you have to order a bag of 10 000 from, you know Taiwan or whatever, which I'm not sure We used to get them and lou would give them to us. I'm sorry. I'm gonna keep interrupting But we would give him to us and toilet paper and he would put one fold it Put another one fold it put another one So we get them in these like and then put a piece of tape around it So we go over to lou's and we pick them up just these little stacks of badges wrapped in toilet paper. That's how we Man Crazy I just love that. I mean, it's like You're making drums for some of the biggest drummers in the world, but I guess that's that attention.  Again, it's like so cow guys making drums. It's a it all has a vibe to it Everything well at lake forest like I mentioned we had a we had a rehearsal room that they did lessons They did drum lessons So we had like several instructors that did lessons in there So we had kids hanging out in there doing lessons and like taylor came in one day With a cassette tape and he's like dude, I got an audition for this like he couldn't even pronounce it Swear to god. He was like alana's mora's. I don't even know bro But he literally sat in there and rehearsed for last more set for like a month straight So I was like building drums Listen to taylor slam out the parts and our little rehearsal room like it It was just a local hang for all I mean every like lunch was a was a deal Like everybody would want to eat lunch with us So like any given day there would be like our whole workshop would just be full of drummers All place chinese orders and send somebody I feel get it and it would just be All sit around eating eating food talking about drums. So it was for me. It was a dream job That's a special that's like a special time in history for you guys for everyone involved there We're like I mean you guys are young you're sitting there. It's the the cool spot to be Things are going well. You're making money doing it. The company is I mean that's just like yeah It's like lightning in a bottle like and it's Yeah, I'll be honest. I think of like the lake forest location is like the The where it all started. I think that's if I were to ever go back and like want to go visit location I would go back I mean I would see them both but to me the lake forest location is special to me And I think that's where really everything that's where the fire got started. That's where it really ignited Yeah, to me Hey guys, this episode is brought to you by twin cities drum collective in minnesota They make 651 drums played by dave king of the bad plus and dave watt of the motet They have a rock and drum shop and they invented an ingenious product the drummers rave about hoop protect Pretty much all of us have gunked up bass drum hoops from failed hoop guards Well, hoop protect slips right on with no adhesive and provides the best pedal grip You'll ever get and it prevents or ends damage to your hoops Danny carry from tool has three on his set runny from the killers bought 10 for his craviado collection It's brilliant for anything hoop mounted and it's an easy buy for only 11 99 Go to tc drum collective com to find it or follow them on instagram at twin cities drum collective Where you can get it from the link in their bio hoop protect from the makers of 651 drums and one of the coolest drum shops around hoop protect get it today It's interesting too parallels of like like Ludwig Ludwig and Ludwig in the very beginning I think that was a drum shop the two the the brothers that was a drum shop Drum workshop was like like that was you know lessons and things like that It's like these some of these companies start with like We're going to do all this stuff and then they they find their their special thing that they're good at And then like it just happens naturally, you know what I mean like well We're going to make more making drum sets than we are as a retail shop So a lot of parallels to other historical companies. Yeah, the retail was obviously, you know with guitar center and everything else It just got to the point where The retail was just not Not happening So and the custom thing was really starting to become what it was so Yeah, so i'm also wondering and and this is like one of those questions that I think everyone out there wonders And if it's something where you don't want to answer you don't have to but like Did drummers like in the prime like like adrian young chad sexton Travis parker did those guys pay for their extremely expensive nice drum sets or was it more like No, here's not that time not not the big guys. No, that was actually a little bit of a Thing because you know the vice president john was really doing the books and was doing they're doing all the ordering and doing everything So he was a lot more like Try watching the books and watching the money and daniel as I said He likes that, you know He's out there trying to spread the company and spread the love and show people and check out my drums So he was very generous daniel was extremely generous with his drums to the point of john would be like dude What are you doing? Because he would just give him out like I would be on tour like I was on ausfes 2002 I did 2002 2002 And on 2002 I literally made a drum for almost every single artist on the main stage I went to every single part mike uh mike borden uh john from system Who else jerry I went around literally it's like what do you want? What color do you want? Oh, uh, yeah, we uh, we had a list of this kind of stuff So, uh, yeah, I went around literally to each artist and was like what I'm gonna make you a snare drum What do you want? What color you like? What? And then I would just call it the shop make me this it's from mike borden I want this this and that and literally within a week and a half boom I just give him a An address to a venue and it would just show up like walk on the docks and be like here you go If I literally gave away I was giving away like if I ever called him up I'm like there's an artist I'm on tour with that want to give him a snare. They'd be like, okay here Yeah, so every time I probably gave away Seven ten snare drums On tour. Yeah, so yeah, if it was a big artist and they were into it boom Well, it worked out. I mean, but like that's Like you need both sides you need Like you said john who's like you got to stop versus like daniel where it's like we're no we need to give this out We wouldn't be here if I mean you're not going to catch a famous drummer by saying we're going to sell you the snare It's two thousand dollars or whatever. I'm sure it wasn't expensive But like but like you you get them and then someone else sees what they're playing and then they want to order it or Like travis barker on mtv like It's history daniel daniel literally went to a 311 because we were he had fallen in 311 We ever we all fell in love with 311 But he actually went to from my understanding went to a 311 show And when the show was over yet, he was their drum tech at the time chad's drum tech and uh, daniel had a snare with him and got yet his attention was like Hey man, I want to give this to chad and he was like you want to give that to chad He was like, yeah He was like, hold on and he just walked back grabbed chad in the dressing room He walked out and daniel was like here and chad was just like What that was the beginning? That's that was it? I mean he just showed up at a show and was like, I want to give you a snare and that was that's what did it Man, that's what daniel would do. He would just show up and be like, we want to give you a snare drum here Yeah, have him put your name on it. We engraved your name on it kind of like the uh, kind of like the old days of uh, you know The salesmen's go into uh door-to-door after two drum shops back like, you know, no social media I'm sure they had nobody really call in the shop to order drums. They just walked up and was like, here you go That was what it was. I think that uh That really kind of set that really helped set the vibe too in a way, you know, you have to build your own It's like you're building your own like, um Like uh reputation of like and then you can say, oh this drummer plays it. Oh that drummer plays it All right. Well now I want to play it. Oh, well, he plays it too. So now this drummer plays it It's just building and building and building but it seemed like it happened fast Well, I think when chat I think when Chad started playing the drums and got so into it There were so many drummers that just looked up to Chad Chad was at that time and still but at that time when he first Hit the scene with 311 at the scene It was just kind of like people were freaking on Chad. So when we got Chad, it really Legitimized orange kind of drum. I mean it was like it made, you know, we really started to get on the map at that point Yep And yeah, and like at the timing of it like I said, uh, like it said in the beginning a lot of these guys Chad I'm sure and sure with the no doubt. They were just local Bands, you know, that was the local drum shop just making drums for local drummers and then Fast forward when they started making the break It just happened like, you know, I mean the timing just happened to work out where like, oh, yeah We made drums for Chad in a garage before, you know These massive records came out and then The rest is kind of history and Daniel and I were also doing the doing albums. So we that was a big thing of what we were doing. We were We we would go in the studio So we build the drums and they would call us. Hey, can you bring him the studio? So we go in the studio and tune We did did no doubt tragic kingdom the 311 blue album 311 transistor That's awesome. So, uh, yeah, that was that was a big part of what we did is studio going in the studio and actually Tune the drums getting getting tones. You got to be everywhere. You got to do everything. I mean, you guys were were Absolute hustlers at it where you're just Going hard and and you know, I feel like when people are younger, there's not much Like you have less responsibilities. You have less. Yeah. Well, Daniel was really the driving force behind it I I was I got fortunate, you know, I I moved in with him. I lived with him I got a job there when I was 16, but I moved in with with 18 at his house at the garage. So But he really he was really the driving force behind the whole thing. I kind of just Was a tag along I got to be a part of the whole thing and I kind of made my mark in my own way But Daniel really was what really drove the whole thing forward and and really all the artists everything was really Daniel's the one that really Now let me ask so let's fast forwarding back again when things were like total like I mean The all the drummers are great and huge, but like travis barker is even to this day I mean, he's on I mean, he's with the kardashians and stuff. It's mega. Yeah so was there a point at the peak of like orange county madness Where things were starting to like get out of control for you guys where it was like hard to keep up with the demand And like like this is crazy How do we how do we do this where you needed some like business help or anything? Did it ever get a little like Whoa, like we're over in over our heads here um Again, I can only speculate on this don't hold me to this but um the way that they had set up their business model I'm sure you remember from looking at the website back in the day. You could Essentially price out what your kit was What they would do is they would say okay for us to start your kit We need a 50 percent deposit and then once it's done we get the 50 percent, you know the remainder Um, unfortunately that business model was I feel was more like you got a rob peter to pay paul kind of vibe So what would happen was my deposit would cover somebody else's so I think they kind of got wrapped up in getting backed up in waiting for parts or things and also Because a lot of things were outsourced like the super crazy paint jobs or the powder coating If they quoted a customer x amount of dollars and the painter really stuck it to them It is what it is. Um, so I think there was a lot of issues with that. So I don't I think maybe got overwhelming as far as that but uh, again, I was not there So I do not know but um, there was a little bit of that when I was working there I mean it was always there was There was times we would have to steal parts off other snare drums to complete other snare drums I mean just this is way back in the day. So I mean it was always we were never business first I don't think any one of us were ever like good business people I mean it definitely like, you know, at least speaking daniel was I'm not gonna talk about daniel But uh, yeah, it was really all about dealing with the artist first and foremost and john really kind of was running things Business wise for the most part. I mean, obviously they were collaborating But and I think probably they could have used it many times probably could have used a really good business person, but Yeah, say that No, and I I say that completely out of respect of like you guys are musicians And it's just interesting to have like cautionary tales of like what did happen where even with the podcast Like I make some money off advertising and patreon and I've never documented in a single month How much I've made for any month I just keep moving forward and it's like we're all in the same boat of like I should probably be tracking this At some point, but oh, yeah, you do a gig. I have no idea like I guess they paid me that or maybe it came from that gig I don't know Yeah, but I don't know man.  I did not know this was gonna be what it is Like it had this mark He's like dude, we were just a bunch of drummers bullshitting in a in a garage and then it's now this you know Some of the in my opinion like the holy grail drawings now. Um, yeah It's just pretty surreal like they weren't really yeah Yeah, it wasn't hey, let's be business minded because we're trying to make this last 30 40 years We're gonna go public with um Stock markets and things like that like no it was just No, man, just make the drum for the guy down the block. We'll figure it out. Yeah Yeah, which maybe it wouldn't be as cool if it was like that, you know, if it was Exactly, I was just doing stuff that was just I mean it was just kind of a Cool because you could just sit around and just think of crazy ideas Like let's do this color combination or what if like I was I was one of the first ones I think maybe the first one to say hey because I was learning how to do inner hoops reinforcement hoops So I was doing those with nicky and one day I was like, why don't we take a whole ten ply shell and trim the whole thing And pound it inside and make one thick ass shell.  We actually had had a huge gap We filled it in with he took wood glue and mixed and sawdust with it It didn't look good But it was the very first one we did and I wrapped it in this ugly purple color Which actually was from the same material Roll from that from daniel's purple kit that I told you about his original huge massive purple kit And it actually got stolen at a pod studio session. So I don't have it anymore But it was number one. It was the number one first 20 ply So, yeah, jeez that sucks I would find it very frustrating But I think it was an inside. I think it was an inside job. So I'm pretty sure it's sitting in a studio right now Probably one of my voice studios With a towel over it just like I hope no one looks at it. I'm probably just sitting right out in the open. No shame But yeah I mean to to go off of what mike was saying too the idea that they could just make these crazy You know ideas and just whip them out. I think it really Um kind of turned the industry upside down from all perspectives of other drum companies Like you have the american brands like ludwig had was kind of disarray slinglin didn't exist You really only had a handful like, you know d.w. Wasn't the mecca of d.w. You think now Bill debtmore was still just same thing probably like you guys just in a garage at his house doing this there wasn't a whole lot of um american brands that was mostly japanese and imports and just This is the drum set. This is the color. This is what you order. This is what you get Jumps were always very traditional and nobody had ever really like taken it and just flipped the whole thing on his head Yeah, I think that's kind of what we did. I think that's kind of what we were the first people to take drums and just do some just Things with them that nobody had ever even thought about doing so I remember, you know as a kid you would see You know, well, here's a pearl kid You got these big mounted toms on a kick drum and then you see orange county with these double ported bass drum heads and Flashy colors next thing, you know pearls like we do custom. We have a master's works or d.w. Is like, oh, we're custom We'll do short stack toms. I think they started realizing. Oh, wow. I think these got onto something Let's take that idea and roll with it as well. Yeah, and Jared. I'll tell the story real quick I was on tour with po d. I was on tour with po d and love I gave him he had Five orange county drum snare drums and he played two of them His side snare was a rostus snare red building green sparkle and they had a black and red black with red powder coated hardware snare both six by 12s and Derek from pearl the rep he hated it and pearl Hated it. They were like so we were on tour with linkin park And he came to show and he was like mike. You got it.  So we're gonna make you some thick shell snares So we asked you with the first ones. He made us two 12s Pearl reference with the with the thick shells. What was the very first one to get those the very first two I don't even think he has them anymore But those were the very first two pearl pearl had to copy it pearl was like literally like we're gonna make you thick Shell snares So you'll play them So you'll get rid of stop playing the orange kind of snares So that just shows you that at that time big pearl was the biggest company in the world Brooke drunk company. So they were like we're gonna we're gonna and now I think they still make those shells to this day for the reference snares so Yeah, true story And I mean They start doing crazy things like that to try to play catch up like oh wow somebody's taking You know a market share we need to get on that and then I think they also Not even just the the flash finishes and thick shells. It was also just at the time Mike would tell you you built a drum from start to to end at orange county Hand sanding everything lacquering it yourself. There wasn't really a drum at that time that had that many Man hours, I guess you would say for that much love or an attention put into it. It was just it's hot off the press It's wrapped in this color and it shipped in a box overseas to you You know, I think it really started making pearl and dw another guy start going Okay, we need to really work on quality control because these guys are killing it and we're not Well, I think they all started to realize that there was a new generation of drummers And there was a new generations of drums and they were always for so long They would oh like I said it always been tradition all those companies that always follow the tradition So once we we kind of shook up the whole tradition. Yeah, so that's when companies started to take notice You can't drill holes in these things. You can't mount it this way like sure you can powder coat Yeah, right. Yeah, right like wait it glows in the dark. Why would you do that?  I'm sure that's that's something entirely different Yeah, you orange county wouldn't want it to go the other way where they're playing Someone else's snare and then you're like, well, what's not paying you? Yeah, yeah So, um, all right Let's keep moving forward and we'll kind of get closer to the end of it But I want to ask while we're in this heyday. Maybe this question goes to you Michael for um You know the orange county guys who were there in the day Like was there a moment that sticks out to you of like like travis barker on the vma's or something like this of just like holy crap, we have made it like like a The pinnacle that you think back on of like your happiest memory of like all right the company has made it Is there anything that sticks out to you in that era? Well, you know, I mean honestly probably in the years when things were really the biggest with travis and all that stuff I really wasn't around so I can't I think that was probably when they were at their peak But for me, you know Having at the time having chat adrian and taylor Yeah from food fighters at the time Yeah, that was really for me. That was that was the coolest thing I mean, I think the company went on to have more success and and more popularity and I Don't think I was around. I don't think I experienced that as much but for me It was just I always look at those early days when when the when everything was cultivated That's to me. That was the most special time and I'll always If when I think back if people were to ask me like what's the most special time in orange county drum history I wouldn't say the later years. I would say the early years. Okay. I think that's because I was there But that's when everything really that's by the time we got to santa anna everything was established I mean it was they were cranking by the time we got to santa anna. So I really think the lake forest location was was when the or the origins of the company That's when everything was really Special mojo going on in that like stars aligning. So then Jared and michael jump in whenever obviously too, but so When when michael when you weren't there and when things when when, you know, the back half of the company Jared picking up here is kind of a collector restore enthusiast Love lover of orange county. What happened on that point kind of where michael's Time there and not you know what I mean. I'm sure you're still friends with everyone around 2006 I moved out of california in 2006. So that's around when I was all right. So then what happens from there Uh, I mean some of this is documented. Some of this is just my perspective So I think a combination of in 2006. I mean at that time Blink win 82 was no longer. They were on their hiatus had broken up And uh travis was doing I think a lot of dj stuff and other things they had plus 44 So I think as the main endorser. I think you know That slowed up a little bit. Also you start looking at um Daniel and other guys like mike and guys who were around the shop in the beginning like even jeremy They were now out on tour with other people So you didn't really have you know the guys in the shop like that that used to be there to really hold it down or Buckle it down And I mean not let me say one thing real quick In my opinion, it really would have been good. Daniel was busy And I obviously he was doing his thing But I think if Daniel had been able to be around the shop more and be more hands on with it I think possibly things could have been a little different But you know, he really got it got caught up in what he was doing So it was all being run by other people, you know, he wasn't able to You know, he wasn't able to sit down there and really run it directly Probably the way he Should have I think it could have been better if he was able more But whatever carry on jay. Good. Good. Good point. Yeah So no, I did he makes the point. But yeah, essentially there's that and then just so many factors that were piling up You had a lot of Quote on quote custom builders popping up overnight It seemed like and they were taking not also the just, you know The idea of the ported heads and I feel like I saw a square badge on every drum for, you know, 10 years Just trying to the double ported bass drum heads Just really trying to cash in on the orange county thing and people were kind of taking the business model as well Um You look at that you also have outsiders You know that I'm sure we're probably maybe not the same quality of work but doing it cheaper Making the same kind of vibe that you could get. Hey, you don't want to wait eight months from orange county I'll make you one and then you have other these other companies sprouting out then you also have You know the uh, the economy that that essentially I think did them in was the uh, the housing market And also and also I will say a lot of those factors also just music industry in general The music industry just has slowly been tanking throughout the years So, I mean, I think orange county drum got in at the very end when the music industry was there was still an industry there But slowly it was fizzling out and not only that but just drum Trends the drum sounds have changed.  It's like those 90s cracky snare drums. You don't hear that anymore. It's literally like it's an old sound I mean, it's like some people still are into it. I still like torque snares But it's like thick sound thick shells and vintage snares and slam on the rim and torquing them up It's like you don't really hear it that much. It was kind of a it was kind of a phase in drums It was kind of a trend So that kind of went away and the music industry changed all the bands started changing So I think that also that affected every company that affected anybody that was involved with the music industry at all So I think the music in music in general changing was a big factor. Yeah Well, also, I think it ties with the uh, the like we had said Business wasn't exactly first priority. Um You know the business model wasn't exactly the best and then Like you said, you have one guy just trying to do the books And I think everything kind of had just caught up with them and it just I don't think they really had a way out other than the option was to sell it to our center Well, and and it's been mentioned throughout this but most of the guys who work there though like Like michael and jeremy like you guys were all like working Touring with other you're working like techs and drummers and you're you're you're on the road I mean that that's kind of what makes it so special is like it's for drummers by drummers But then when everyone is like peeling off and going and doing their things I guess it's it's not as focused when people aren't there like you're saying sure Well that area at that time orange county at that time It was just the hotbed That's where it was all happening and and there were so many bands we were dealing with so it was just constantly I mean Getting constantly hit up like hey, do you guys have a drum tech? We need a drum tech. We need a drum tech People just ask they would call it john and be like we need a drum tech So that's how I got I was going to the studio and I just got I was Went to the studio with a band shovel and they were like the manager came to me They like what I was doing. He was like do you want to go an auspice for this? We need a drum tech Okay So it was just right place at the right time and it was just where where the shop was in southern california It was just right there where the industry was happening. Totally right place right time Yeah, that's why everybody was getting gigs and you know, it was just Yeah, that was what was up So Jared this is more your area of expertise. I think why don't you kind of bring it on home here? You mentioned The selling the guitar center and all that stuff. What happened with that whole that the end The end portion of the company This one, uh It's to me. It's a little depressing because uh, Mike and I both agree that they should still be around today People still are seeking the sound and still seeking these drums. So it's a little upsetting that they there should still be here but um, basically, uh, I think between the um, I'm sure everybody has heard about the guitar center drum off. Of course Um, typically I think the finales were hosted over Right in like the hollywood shop if i'm not mistaken in guitar center So you had a lot of guys there and I believe adrian and travis had done, you know before playing orange county kits so I think that's where the relationship kind of started between gc and um in orange county, but um Fast forward orange county had problems and they were having trouble filling orders Like I said the business model of you know, robbing peter to pay paul I think caught up to them where they just had, you know shells without parts or Things waiting on the shelf Orange, uh county was like, hey, you know, what are we gonna do? And I think guitar center found it. Hey, we'll bail you guys out But for us, can you make us a run of snares? So most people will know there's a usa made run of guitar center snares in like 2008 2009 I think maybe even as early as 2007 started rolling out um Vented, you know and real flashy and they were the everyone was like, oh, you know, we see them in guitar center now and um From what I've gathered, you know the research hand was that Guitar center paid orange county a little bailout like okay We'll put some money so you can fill your orders and You make us some snares as well and we have this thing going on but unfortunately, I think they were so um And and shambles and Like I said, people were not around anymore. It was only a few guys and then housing market hits and um The debt was just too high where the only out was for guitar center to make the offer To um buy orange county in theory. This sounds pretty good. You know, oh Well, you have a big company like guitar center now can take and run and maybe keep orange county afloat now, but they unfortunately outsourced to An overseas manufacturer just to license the name orange county and the badges changes the hardware changed quality Is it's not a usa made kit anymore? It's not, you know, a couple guys in a garage making it anymore It's yeah a mass factory and Yeah, for me, that's uh 2009 2010 And Orange county was just to me done. I mean technically the brand still Exists but yeah, it's not it's not what it was Well, that's an interesting point because it like the venice series and all that stuff. I mean, it's like so They're still making drums for guitar center with the badge on it. Correct. Or is it is it? Yeah, they they changed the badge from the the rectangle you see behind mic's head to now these like They try to make it look like the shark tooth lugs where it's just the trying you know, they're still making those But I'm still making those right now No, so Without diving too much in careful of the legal aspects. Um, I believe 2015 The contract for the manufacturer of those drums Stopped so whatever guitar center has and stock at their stores or musician friends is what's there I don't think they've made any since interesting but But yeah, I mean, they're still Technically around but you don't see you don't see anything new rolling out Like if you look at a guitar center, you know mail-in pamphlet or the magazines that they have you don't really see like New exclusive to guitar center.  Yeah, a little a little bit of both. I'm sure he also has drums that none of us have even seen but um, he In I he has like on instagram. He does get show, you know, older kits that he does use in studio and It also depends on um, so mike and I I mean I did what mike did as well I was a tech on the road for a bit and things like that.  There's sometimes drums. They're waiting for you So I I'm sure he's recycled older kits, but he did have some new ones with the the newer blink lineup um, so new ones made and two From what I was told daniel built some Jeremy a cue built some like even um adrian young his no doubt stuff when they like did their one reunion tour That was made by jeremy. Uh, so jeremy If people don't know, uh, he also acquired almost all the tooling from orange county. So Q is as close as you're gonna get to uh Yeah, orange county now it is yes me. I would say on that one. Um, yeah, I I respect jeremy a lot because you know in my opinion if there's one person and I said this is jeremy a lot If there's one person that should be copying doing those designs the stuff that he was doing It's jeremy. I mean if there's one person that should be doing the old style stuff You know the thick shells Acrylics, you know the crazy plaid wraps All that stuff, but you know what's cool is jeremy didn't do it He really kind of carved his own path and he did q and I really respect that he could have very well Just kept doing what he was doing in orange county, but he really did his own thing. So Yeah, I think really in my opinion Jeremy is the only one that there was going to be somebody doing an orange county drum You know, he's really the heart and soul Of what orange county drum the orange county drum that people know and love today all the crazy designs In my opinion, jeremy's really and I shouldn't think just jeremy, but those guys at that time Were really the heart and soul of that whole what orange county drum became Interesting. Yeah, well a lot of other also to add to that The q guys not even just jeremy But a lot of the guys like max and a few other guys that worked in orange county Are so are still kind of related and still work together with q and whatnot. So it is kind of Cool that they did, you know, I mean Do their own thing, but still kept it orange county family, which I think not just lately copying orange county drum I love about it. I love about it. No, if you didn't say that you wouldn't know I mean really you'd look at it and go this is a different thing. It's that's awesome. Yeah That's awesome. He could have just copied it and there's other people it's been copied a lot And I don't respect that so I really respect that he just did his own thing That's what I mean. I like I um, I I think if um, like you think of um, trying to think of like other brands and comparison like Lady had its time and its error and it died like rogers had its time. I obviously came back, but uh, you think of that like Orange county its error was that and I think the the legacy is that let it be Yeah, exactly would be cool to resurrect it, you know what I mean if it was done, right? and a lot of things fell into place, but Just let it be what it was, you know, because I don't think I don't think the the mojo and the magic can happen Lightning's not gonna strike twice. Like I told um, I had said to Michael It's funny how history repeats itself. A lot of the other listeners might know what I'm referring to In regards to like I look at Ludwig um You know, especially like as a kid. So you have that, uh generation of uh drummers that saw Ringo like yes, Ludwig went around but Start making drums again under his name in the late 50s Transition badge and then Ringo hits and it just explodes And for like 20 years, Ludwig was the biggest names in drums and then unfortunately they sold I look at orange county the same thing like you had had big endorsers and big guys and then I as a kid from my perspective You see animal the state come out and you see Travis playing these kids Bam it happened again, you know, really took off and Lasted same thing about like 20 year run of just pumping out some of the craziest coolest Looking and sounding drums and then you know same thing just sold the same thing kind of happens to a lot of companies I mean a lot of parallels. It's even even with Jeremy getting the tooling. It's kind of like a fives to like Darwin to um Those brands where it's like go to DW Camco to DW. It's like it's like Bernie stone has a The radio frequency show. Yeah, it's kind of um Yeah, yeah Quarter I was gonna say fives to to darwin to quarter. I don't think that's the right order. But yeah, it's it's yeah It's a lot of uh parallels, but I guess we are all Drummers are just kind of like, I don't know we do what we do We move forward and we're all cut from the same cloth and kind of do the same We make the same mistakes, you know But it's it's just a special time And I think this has just been awesome to have you guys on here to kind of like because Orange county is a little bit Uh, the history is I don't want to say it's confusing, but it's a little bit of like It's been cleared up now of like it's just If I had to sum it up.  No, I I agree I think also when you look at um the other I think big companies like 60s and 70s like, you know, the big four Um, they actually had like catalogs like orange county like yeah, it had catalogs But it wasn't you know or even like today you don't have them They didn't have the internet like you think there's not an archival thing of you know This is how like again back to I have no idea how many drums they made. I don't think anybody has a number to that Um, there wasn't a whole lot of fourth off that. So yeah, the history is kind of um It's a lot of oral history and uh a lot of I don't know Yeah, but you know, we'll piece it together and maybe if people out there know something or want to add something They can like comment on the episode on youtube or whatever or email in and I can post about it Um, but it's really cool to have both of you guys on here both Michael your experience with the company and jared your experience is really kind of a a fan of this and jared you've been kind of Really sticking on me about getting this done which I appreciate because it's like sometimes you can't It's like yeah like all the time and energy can't go into one episode because there's got to be one every week So it's awesome to have people like you who help me kind of like no, this is who you need to talk to All right, that didn't work. Let's try again and michael you were super responsive. So I appreciate that as well Yeah, it's a shame that we couldn't get some of the other guys on because there's really a lot of the story that I can't tell so I mean sure I consider myself one of the original guys But it's a shame that we can't you know, you can't get couldn't have heard from some of the other guys Because there was a lot there's a lot of other perspectives and a lot of the personalities that were involved Yeah, like I mean going back real quick You had plenty of guests on like rob cook where these guys some of these guys are just diehard fans of particular brand This was a big part of my life as a kid You know without I don't think without enema of the state I don't think I would have even decided to pick up a set of drumsticks So for me, this was more not just to get you know 10 minutes of fame on a piece of computer It was more I just want to preserve the history and the brand that you know It was meant so much to me all these years and just really let people know like hey They left their mark and yeah, this is what they were about, you know It wasn't just I was hounding you to get an episode. Oh, no, not at all.  I want to be respectful and get someone from the company. So I think it was really cool To do that so awesome guys well Michael and Jared have been kind enough to stick around for a quick patreon bonus episode And what I'm going to ask them about Once we finish this one up is what their favorite drum set Orange county drum set of all time was there's well, we don't know how many there were but There's a lot of really cool Orange county drum sets out there. So if you want to check that episode out With both these guys, which is kind of rare to have two people on the show. I think it's only happened Rogers had two and gms had two So I think it's this is only the third one. So you guys are in, you know You're in special history of the podcast, but to check that out go to drumhistorypodcast.com patreon link Click that you can join up two bucks a month get the bonus episodes and I really appreciate everyone who does that but Do you guys want to plug anything as we wrap up here on the main episode? Start with you Michael anything you're working on that you want to kind of tell people where to check you out and all that stuff I'm actually starting a custom drum company Kelly drums Yeah, cool. That's actually I'm in my workshop right now. That's why I'm getting this all stuff.  Yeah, it's going to be dialed. I'll be up and going probably and I would say another two months. Maybe I just had rotator cuff surgery So that was a big setback for me, but I used the time to really get myself all dialed. So Thank probably another two months. I'm going to be doing it. I'm starting out with just snares But eventually probably start doing some kits, but uh, I'm not going to be copying Warren's kind of drum I'll be doing stuff. You know, I mean you might see some slight similarities, but it's not going to be a copy It's not going to be a knockoff by any means. I'm going to be doing stuff that I like and so Yeah, cool. Congrats and good luck. Thank you. You'll be hearing about it soon guaranteed Yep, perfect. Awesome. Jared. What about you my friend? Um, yeah, I mean most people hit me up on uh, Facebook on chances are I'm in at hundreds of groups for drums So it's Jared found on Facebook on uh, instagram I actually started a new instagram just strictly for drum aspects and that's a ghost note underscore percussion So that's where people hit me up to do rewraps restore things, you know new hardware and then I also I'm going to be building some stuff as well. Yeah, and I mean you're the guy I'm sure all of you guys can do it, but I mean I know Um, Jared you're passionate about restoring and preserving and just seeing orange county drums, which it's just I'm sure everyone at orange county the original Crew appreciates someone out there keeping the legacy alive like that. Um, which is really cool. So and again Thanks to jared for kind of getting everything all set up with this over. I mean we've been talking for a year about plus about And uh, Michael was our missing piece to make this special episode happen.  And I was like, okay. So yeah, it's cool. Yeah, we should have done that It probably should have done that a year and a half ago But uh, I think as we wrap up though, we should say we hope jeremy Feels better from q. He's going through some serious stuff There's a go fund me that I think the drum click network Uh, we're putting things together for a raffle with some with some really cool stuff Uh, there's I don't want to talk too much about it now though because there's going to be like a Separate ad that you'll hear either at the beginning of this that has all the details So I don't want to say something wrong, but there's going to be a raffle and help raise money for that But his go fund me page. I'll put in the description of this Um, so check that out, but On that note, michael jared, thank you guys for joining me on this and making it a really cool, you know Double guest super episode that we've been trying to get along set up for a long time. So thank you Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks part