Needed to order six o'clock first on the agenda is to approve the agenda Is there anything it needs to be amended? No, I think it's Like I said, I think the inter local if we don't get to that tonight we could do that We'd have to do it on the 27th or make a special meeting I would like to see you guys discuss that as a new practice It's very difficult when when there's times when stuff has to come up Dave, but I think overall It's nice to have it in the packet so that there's information. So when you're making a decision It's you know an educated thought-out decision instead of a the last minute trying to make a choice I can I can say that I think Concerns that maybe it was in the packet. Yeah, so I'm really interested. They could call up that packet and say, okay This is on the agenda. I'm really concerned about that. I want to come to me. I think that's true I mean that's I've seen other towns have done it and I think it's good that we I think it's a good practice It kind of slows the roll a little bit. There's gonna be times when maybe a grant or something You know, I miss something maybe but it has to be added But I mean for bigger items. I think you're right even for me. It's hard I need time to research it and if I've already done You know, I just don't have time so sometimes I can't give you an educated opinion And you can't come up with one either because it's cold So it's just a thought. So let's get the agenda Approved so unless there's any anything else just Okay, Paul Lindley second all in favor All right, and then we'll just briefly open it up for a discussion regards to you what we were just talking about the Just defining our practices of adding agenda items and I think in the past like Theresa and Dave was kind of leading to a little bit is To to have it an official item, it's nice to have any of the backup information whatever that might be And then anything else we're more than willing to break bring it up And usually we'll do that like any other business which might be hey, this is something that's Yep. Yeah, Julie Okay, I'll move the microphone. Yep, Paul Paul moved it and Lindley seconded it. Okay. Yeah And then you know and then just like anything else if there's something that comes to mind or something a citizen brings up or You know or even I mean there'll be sometimes it might be a liquor license or something that jumps on there that we don't want to Wait for but we can take that up under other business. It's not a Not a big thing, but if there it becomes like a larger item like like an example good example would be the Adding something to the warning or something that we think there'll be a lot of interest in You know, but the other question too is is Is how much time should we give to Reese to you know Like normally it gets printed on Thursday afternoon Friday morning Yeah, I try to get it done usually by like Wednesday is like yeah rule of thumb if you have it by Wednesday Yeah, sometimes I try to like I put it on my agenda calendar every week for Thursday And then like this week I needed to kick it out sooner because I was gonna be gone so and yeah, it gives me a chance to read everything and Form my own questions, but I think you know, it's noon the Wednesday before then that's So so noon the Wednesday before to get on the agenda both board members and Citizens if they have something to bring forward, okay? All right Otherwise we'll bring it up under other business at the end of the meeting and Then if it's warranted we can always make an agenda time for the the next meeting or the next available meeting That makes sense. Okay. Good deal All right, just need a motion to adjourn. We'll go home I'm sorry, so so it's Julie Kraus Leonard Jamie Daniel Jesse plots key David. I don't know Who David is there's I'm not sure if David if you can hear me if you could just say who we're last name Thank you Thank you. All right, perfect. Thank you. Well, then we know so she knows for the minutes Thanks, Paul And then and then just for anybody that hasn't been at the meetings lately. We've been talking about for a while they were kind of we're the meetings were getting a little bit bogged down because of either Time that hadn't been properly agendaed or or some of the Public comment period so to just So that everybody has an opportunity to speak as well as the board members have an opportunity to Not be here until really late We talked about the last meeting and I don't think Dave was here But at the last meeting we talked about keeping public comment items to about like a three minute maybe five minute per item if if the comment Needs more time then that would be like, you know, maybe add it to the next agenda type piece to it Now now most of the time There's little or no comments, but there can always be that one one item that comes up that spires a lot of Activity and then and then that would be just like what What Dave was talking about is maybe that item is large enough to want to spare a larger conversation So we put that on the agenda And then as always the public comment is open to anything that's not on the agenda And then as we get going through the agenda itself and it's going to get it's going to get more difficult with doing the hybrid model back and forth here with the Zoom portion of it by every once in a while We will look on to see if somebody has their hand raised and then at probably the most appropriate time will call on those individuals so It you know, so if you if you raise your hand and we're still talking and it's ten minutes later It's not necessarily that we forgot about you. It's as we're working through the discussion and then we'll We'll get everybody in so All right So first we are going to open it up to public comment So if there is anything That somebody has on their mind that's not part of the agenda this evening. Now is the time Jesse raised. Hey Jesse. Hey, I have a public comment This is actually coming from me the EIC actually I Just wanted to let you all know that That we are going to be hosting a series of conversations and to see community inputs To talk about and address some of the issues that the select board raised about community safety So we just we voted at our last meeting The I don't I have it the dates and time of these will be Shoot I have these January 25th Sorry, I'm getting it right now. I had it. It'll be a hybrid zoom in in-person option depending on the Climates going on but definitely accessible via zoom and the first topic is going to be Speeding we want to get input from the community We got a We have a okay. Yep, the January 25th at 6 p.m. And January 30th at 3 p.m. And there'll be two hour meetings We have an EIC meeting on the 28th. That's in two weeks from now if you all would like to join us and give input or be witness to the further planning of these Community meetings when you say they're going to be a hybrid Jesse. Where's the in-person location going to be? Have we decided that I don't know that we've yeah, that's a good question I don't think we've decided if you want it to be at town hall Call Kelly. She's the keeper of the schedule here and then you can see what you you know if there's something You know here or not It could be downstairs in the conference room If you're going to use like an owl or just laptops the downstairs in the conference room is good But if you're expecting more people then you could try to see if the upstairs is available, but just get a hold of Kelly Okay, thank you. Yeah He's did you hear him He said he may have access to an owl if you need it if you know what one of those is If not, you can also borrow the projector here if you want to do what we're doing it's a little tricky for Sometimes the audio but because Orca has been so gracious to take care of that for us, but Let me know we can try to Help you with whatever you need You're welcome It's at the town of it the projector is the towns the mics and the speakers are Orcas, but we do have some other speakers here that might work If you want the owl it belongs to Bethel University is that mic on It is on okay, let's pull it closer to you. Yeah, can you hear me now? Okay Got it and And one thing I just wanted to quick add no want to jump on the topic too much, but just there's been some myths Information in the public in regards to our discussion with the Constable department will call it is the discussion that we had at the board meeting wasn't necessarily Expanding on our current Constable Privileges or changing any type of policing measures in the community The discussion was right now In the past we've been very lucky with getting like a part-time constable and we've always With the community involvement has always been like a part-time 20-hour a week type Position and two things that have come to our attention Recently one is the amount of paperwork that comes with anything nowadays, so We made the the example of pulling somebody over for speeding You know, it's more than just a ticket then you got to go to the the court date So there's a lot of behind-the-scenes time So in order to actually get our 20 hours of service from from the individual in the community A lot of that's getting taken up with paperwork behind the scenes now So we were trying to figure out if maybe and the second part of it is It's very difficult right now to find somebody qualified that wants this a part-time job So the conversation that we were having is in order to attract somebody To want to invest time in the community We may have to go to a not that we were Expanding on it, but we may have to go to like a 40-hour a week type Costing budget-wise so it definitely be something to kick around at the meeting for sure Did we have anything else out there or anybody here Seats are full here. You guys are missing it packed house tonight, so Should have charged for a mission It was a sunny day today everybody's still at the beach So hearing none we will move on So next up is just continuing our budget discussion that we've had the last couple of times and For anybody that's been a part of it in the past the budget discussion is usually two months long Discussion of throw all your ideas on the wall and let's see what sticks and then we start You know moving things around to To get the budget in order so we are Tonight strap three yeah, I'm hoping I'm hoping this is the final draft So when I you can see this was my draft as a 12-7 and I had taken your input from last time I went through the budget again, and this was prior to receiving the Human services boards information, so I had level funded human services Appropriations when in fact they're a little bit less so my this iteration of the budget says that the revenues are up and again part of the revenues up is the increase to Excuse me to the transfer station we're doing their books I'm not sure they're going to go for that but so this iteration is the total revenues are up 5.45 percent Total expenses are up 1.4, which means amount to be raised by taxes is up point six percent Approved the budget so oh they did I That's accurate, and I noticed that you also have the 10% alliance fees, which is what we voted for The 10% increase to alliance fees you had like you were you were close whatever your number was was just rounded But she's referring just to the 22 yeah, so they approved that okay reverse to the work that Bethel does So those are relatively accurate. Oh great. Well, so that's good. So well, thank you I'd like I said at the time I didn't know And I think that I had I apologize I had off I Yeah, I was going to get you a spreadsheet on how the I think I did it but didn't print it out I'll get it for you next time how the Reappraisal was going to work out because Mo and Judy and I had a conversation about that And I was going to do a spreadsheet for the reappraisal fund Oh, yeah, hey send out the little sleep deprived Oh good it is in there. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So right now. I know when we're talking about percentages There's also cents so right so yes, you do the sense. I do the yeah So I mean point six is less than a penny just because the way our budget is structured with the size of our town It's roughly the same. So if it's one percent increase, it's about one cent right like right now It's like less than a point nine five Cent so so less than a penny on the tax rate now in other places You could say it's going up five cents and it might only go up one penny, you know So I just want to make sure sometimes they can get confused on On that and I did use the most recent iteration of the grand list too when I came out with my numbers for You know what it would be for How much on a house that sort of thing I had done that Um, so I don't know if you just if there's any questions on the revenues If that's the way you want to do it chris just start with that, but thank you. Lindley. That's helpful. So I will So you're saying my number is close on the Yeah solid waste. Okay, so I'll double check that and make sure I do is 10 I can tell you what the actual Oh, yeah, you would be like that'd be great The 10 increase it was 26,162 dollars and 91 cents Awesome, and you were you were right in there. Yeah, I'm a little bit high. Hey, you're just like that's nice. I like Thank you So the the one thing that now that we're into multiple drafts of the budget One thing to start thinking of as a board Now that we've kind of you know the last session seemed like we kind of Got our list down to needs of wants pretty good Um, and now we just got to kind of see is what does the overall budget number that we want to provide look like so in the last Five years probably now We have been because we we started off at least when I got here seven years ago. We started off in a position where um budget budgets were structured Uh or put together but not always followed so Um, so so, you know, so we were constantly coming in over our budgets um So we had talked about Rather than going in one year, you know where we need to be on the budget, you know, we would take that over multiple years so Um at that time the board that I was on and I don't know Paul was on it. Yeah, but we kind of had talked about that point The magic number that we were looking for was like a three percent Or three cents on the tax rate over a period of like Three to five years to kind of get more of a bell curve rather than just sharp increase and we've for the most part as well as start looking futuristically at Things down the road like putting away um things into You know funds for another day, um planning for another day So the first couple of years was really just not really putting much money away for futuristic needs But mostly just to get us where we should have been so we're not over spending money um And now in the probably the last couple of years we've kind of gotten to a point where our budget is kind of in line Um With the town's needs and now we've been starting to do a lot of more futuristic planning so You know, I guess the question I would have for the board tonight is You know, we had been up until last year We had been pretty much at that three percent, you know increase or three cents in the tax rate every year and last year I believe we thought it was going to be just under two Percent, that's all right. Yeah, but two percent, but then the grand list went up Yeah, so it kind of offset it so we ended up basically having a net zero increase to the town um Right, so that's yeah that put us 30 How does the grand list So growth in the grand list happens when people build new properties people subdivide Upgrades to there whenever zoning permits are issued that type of thing and the reappraisal will help There's some land trust there's some different bring it up, but different changes. I'm just thinking back to the conversations about the valuation Right, and so ultimately doesn't have Well It gets divided differently, but it doesn't change the amount of Right, it kind of it what it will do is it'll bring our land schedule up for sure and but people who maybe have not had Depreciation looked at at their house if they have an older home battle kind of level out So yeah, some people will see an increase in their taxes But some people may see a decrease and you know you try to help do this catch up and Then like mo and judy and I talked about you know you kind of need to be on a planned rotation for your appraisals We should never have been out as far as we're out And the tough thing with the grand list is it's kind of like the school's budget Is we don't really know the update on the grand list until after the budget has been finalized It's kind of the same thing at school You don't know what the state's going to give you per pupil until after your budget is finalized So you're kind of playing behind it You are because the grand list because if the grand list went down then obviously it'd be more right Yeah Yeah, and the grand list flogs April 1st So one of the things to think about is Obviously is this capital roads, which we're just working on a more detailed because Two rivers we had a grant and they did a culvert road inventory Trying to divide that up. I'm going to work on that spreadsheet pretty soon and Chris Ryan slack myself We're going to try to evaluate the roads and then do every road so that when someone says, you know, when are you going to work on Whatever they or will have a better idea of how that looks by doing all the roads, which is, you know, we maintain about 65 68 miles of road one of the things to think about two is We have the The 2.8 million dollar water bond went on the users and obviously there's good news in the packet that we got more numbers but one of the things that may affect our budget next year is The 1.7 million obviously we're looking to see what we're going to get for financing We're going to try to take advantage of any money coming through the state for that. That's why we've been pushing to full design What are we going to do with that? Is that something that we may end up putting we've talked about briefly You know hinting around putting that on the tax rate at some point and so instead of back on the users So, you know, that's also something to consider. We know we have millions of dollars worth of water projects coming We know we need a town garage that will be a loan payment at some point We've kind of been waiting for things to stabilize a little bit as far as building materials and finding a contractor. So Maybe next, you know year or the next couple years, so There's those are some of the things that while we're saving for We know it won't make a loan payment But it maybe would pay for some the architecture or some of it to kind of buy us in that situation Those are the things that I think about coming You know towards us Do we have do we have anything in here about Say an architect for the Town garage or we put money in for capital, you know, like capital improvements. So capital building So when there's money in there There is money for that. We need a new roof on the town office. I'm still waiting for an estimate from the guy So There's money in there for that There was money that we had budgeted in this year's budget to go fix the stone wall out front here But which course I couldn't get anyone to do so But I did save that put that in there to put and then put some money in this year To hopefully that will be enough to deal with it. Um, so that's what that improvement fund is for one of them The capital improvement fund is for we've been using it kind of for buildings and so The unanticipated expense we've had this year was the pension Yep retirement fund. Yes, and that was in the neighborhood of 40 Well, it was 30 about 30 grand and that was between everybody now. I know that water sewer is going to make theirs up. I know that The road crew because I had some over budget for insurance that didn't get expended I'm going to make up their portion But the municipal office I have no way to make up that portion So I'm I'm trying to keep an eye on the overall budget to see where we're going to be That would come out of any undesignated fund balance or so we have some room in there with We do some of the projects that we approved that are going to happen this year Yeah, so we've tried to not really But that 30 30 000 dollars and one and a half percent of the Total probably Two million. Yeah, I mean it So and and I know that Kirk White emailed me and said that he was in a meeting And I think with beth pierce and beth was going to send him an email that they'd finally set the numbers for visors I haven't seen that email yet as I just got back to town today But um, so that will be you know, I budget it high because I have a feeling what's going to happen is last time we went from 13.84 to 19.5 percent I don't think the towns will go up You know as much but I I think this time the employees will also because the employees didn't rise at all last time so I expect that will increase a little bit this time, but I'm still high because I don't know yet If you know that number like let's just say you get that percentage increase prior to this being finalized Yeah, yeah, we will Would we want to shift around I'm just sort of piggybacking on your comment of like we're looking at what we might shift around at this moment And I guess kind of not we don't know what that number might be that we would shift around But that would give us something that we could at that point shift around Yeah, and my recommendation would be to do so obviously to put some into you know I mean, I'm always big putting into capital funding just because We know we need a new town garage. We know we need a roof on the We know we're behind in road maintenance and we know That as Chris Jarvis I talked about before there's money coming into the state And I'm hoping hoping hoping that the state uses existing Formats for doing like more paving grants more structures grants and not you know Something that we're all familiar with doing not like the vorac grant was tough because even the people on the state end We're trying to figure it out as they went and so Um, I think that more matching funds would be really nice to have because we we could maybe really get Yeah, but I'm saying is if there's a big savings in retirement and the budget is still this good Maybe we don't cut it. We put that money into more capital funding. So we have more leverage money Well, if we put it into capital then we can spend the future years if we don't spend it Yes, yeah, because anything you're right because anything in this budget we haven't spent it goes away I say but if we put it into capital is is it really available as a contingency Yes, it's not as a not to offset any deficit. No, but it's I don't mean to offset. I mean an unanticipated Like grant match Well, it could be a grant match, but it could be a change in In retirement or health insurance No, no, we'd have to take that through the yeah, we'd have to take that through the general budget capital funds You know, I look at them an easy way to think about it is Something that we're going to depreciate that has a at least a value of five to seven thousand dollars That's going to last more than a few years if it's something like For example, I'll use this turnout gear for the fire department is very expensive But we don't capitalize it even though it's pricey because if they could have one fire and it could be ruined So we we only going to capitalize stuff that has you know, some longevity to it Some longer value, but I usually use the equipment road roads culverts. Yeah, something like that Larger infrastructure buildings and three appraisal fund that sort of stuff. Well, then Even though we can't carry it on Would we be wise if we have the capacity To consider a contingency line that is budgeted And not spent if we don't need We're trying to stay within the budget But if we get something like last year's surprise, right Uh, we would then have something Somewhere to take that right well and the other thing too is typically And and we're we're getting there. We're we're getting closer every year and about two years ago. We didn't have it, but Normally a town Has an undesignated balance, right? So even though you're you're in a make it up. You're in a two and a half million dollar budget right now You you have a You know half a million dollars in your check-in account. We'll call it That you can use for those issues and it's an undesignated because it doesn't have any Proper purpose. It's a carryover Yeah, and it also it also protects you from Payroll borrowing and stuff like that or what if you have to borrow temporarily for a grant project? So I'm yes, yeah Something that we might want to consider and and we like two years ago We didn't have it because right we you know, we were You know in the red until like a couple years ago and now we're starting to have a balance And the idea and and tress and I were talking about is You know, there are certain models out there that show like town of your size should have x amount in your checking book You know, you call it a checkbook, you know in a town of this size We had said that you know, we were at three four hundred thousand dollars is something that you should Have a balance of carryover right and that allows you to like we say to an individual you should have six months saved up Exactly. It's just like that And those contingencies if something happens and you can pay for that unexpected thirty thousand dollars and things and Because before Bethel would have to borrow the money, you know to then Pay it back, you know, and what you'll do is once we get to that point I'll be anxious to see this coming audit Once you have that then we will also create a policy about the undezivated fund balance because you don't want a huge one Because in some cases what towns will do is if you get a larger undezivated fund balance A lot of revenue that is like ten thousand dollars or some percent back to the taxpayers to reduce taxes Because you're to keep your undesivated fund balance in control, but since we've never really had one It'll be a good problem to deal with very soon A really good one. That's the hope but we are getting there and last year We last year we had a surplus Not a big one But it would have been larger if the transfer station didn't know it's money So but this year now that well at least they were on track Didn't know it's money last I checked I could change anytime But you know, so that that's one thing that's not on or you know that we are acquiring on that But I think the thing that we have to talk about now is now that we're you know, I mean we're you know Most of the items are pretty much settled Right, I mean there might be a couple things that shift or some retirement percentages that change But now it's kind of us saying Like right now we're looking at it as one percent, right? And we had talked or at least the board over the last, you know Five seven years has talked about this three percent bell curve We're at one percent with our you know needs So how much futuristic money do we want to put into this budget to carry through so You know, do we want to say one percent and just we're just going to Not do any other I mean, we're still budgeting futuristic, but not do anything above and beyond Or do we feel that you know, we could put an extra percent in the budget to put in You know highway rehab or or capital improvements or You know, there's you know a bunch of stuff that we could you know, pay off some extra debt or you know, there's There's always those different pieces, you know And I know last year we had talked about like two percent seemed to be kind of like the what we were trying to go for and then Which was good and then They did not expectantly, which was good, you know the grand list came in higher. So then it went to You know zero, of course had we had known that maybe we could have put a little bit more futuristic money Outside but which is challenging. So but last year we were also up against we thought the schools was going to be through the roof too so we were trying to kind of Balance that a little bit and I don't know. Does anybody even know what the school? The other thing too is I think so I got I'll I'll try to attend the next one The other thing too we talk about is um, like for example, we knew out of the gate You know, I'm never happy to come in and be like, okay I'm already 30,000 the whole and then it started in july yet, but then I go to all the department heads and say well Here's the expectation So, uh, we're gonna save make it up. So I mean we do go through them each month and I think that's something that's relatively new over the last three four years with is I do have an expectation that if you're Something happened on one end of your budget Then you need to start seriously looking at how you're going to make that up because we can't sustain You know that sort of loss You know that we'd seen in the past. I mean when I first came I went back 10 years to try to figure out What was going on, you know, so So do we know what the immediate impact is a hundred thousand dollar house? Of an increase of one percent or I had done it I had put it into a perspective that I think I did it in last was viewing Do you have less somebody's last month last week's packet or two weeks ago packet? I did unless I updated it one cent on I did it in the last packet for you on 100 Can you pull it up suddenly? Yeah, she's so good. Yeah, because I did a spreadsheet for you at the 22nd Was that the day 30? Yes 30 dollars, maybe that was the 22nd 25 $25 Lindley had a When I put it in your packet Two weeks ago, I had done I just had it open on my screen and then it disappeared. Oh, no Lindley's the tech I have to go search for mine What I yeah, I had done for the I had given you guys the piece that you would have seen in the town report That showed you and I did a little blurb down at the very bottom of the packet saying how much the taxes would increase on a 250,000 Yeah I can go back to this like board meeting. All right, I'm just I think if I go to the website The other the other thing we don't know That I've brought up before is we are going to see I don't know when we're going to see action on the state level with climate Yeah, I don't either but We will eventually need to be Thinking about a match or something on some of that I am sure Yeah I've been kind of reading two rivers. They kind of they do an excellent job kind of keeping you up on So I don't you know, I'm not sure that You sent the last packet not kelly 11 20 by search for kelly. Yeah. Oh and this says 11 22. I'm looking on this select board Oh, do you are right? I'm looking at If we have the capacity for a half a percent or a percent to just to be able to take advantage of something That's okay, Paul we're getting there Okay, right here. So as the last iteration Using the estimated tax rate municipal taxes for a home value at 200,000 would be 2046, but it's dropped down now because I think I had a Grand list value of 201 2 774 So approximately 20 bucks. Yeah, so basically you take the 20. Yeah for a year Yeah So you just that's not even two dollars a month Yeah, I'll just give you a good Don't know. Yeah, right. No, that's good. Yeah, and and the thing too is that is Greg's Chris is saying is we're We're budgeting, you know, like 18 months out and then the grand list isn't lodged until April So everything has happened when you watch the grand list So if there's an up or down or value, it's you know, a lot of sometimes you'll know if somebody Like a major home has burned or something like that. You'll have an idea of what's going to happen, but So I was doing some doodling on it Um Do you have anything on revenues? Well, everything's revenue actually Um, so I was kind of I guess what I was putting together for numbers right now. Anyways was You know adding another 1% to the budget, which is like $21,000. Yep, and I had What I had thought and then maybe you might have answered one of the questions, but Because we were talking about fixing the wall out here. Yeah And because last time I think we put we put five you said was going to be more at least 10 We had 10 in last time and I moved it to the capital fund. I put five in this time. Okay. Is that enough Okay, well, I guess someone to give me an estimate I I thought about increasing a percent which would which would be five more for the wall I asked kelly and then 16,000 into the highway fund, which is because the highway fund we have sand hill christian hill Gilead and then we're talking about what we were talking about some sidewalks. Yeah on river street, but also Before the next state job comes back through here is doing the sidewalks From the corner of pleasant street down to the school those ones too So we just gotta start saving to those. Yeah, because yeah, we don't budget anything for sidewalks. So the That's a crystal drive project That's in part. That's in the 1.7 million. Yeah, so in the 1.7 million is sand hill is Graham And yeah, and full lane pave. I said everything has to be a full full pave now So it's graham Highland crystals sand centennial Bicentennial Graham Highland I mean the water situation on crystal That's part of the 1.7 million dollar. Yeah, the 1.7 million dollar project. Yes, but we haven't determined that Have to go off the pump station. We have determined. We're going to the pump station Yeah, we have determined after speaking to the town attorney about some options and So that's where we're at now and um, we're still trying to we're talking with a landowner about putting the pump station there And so we're kind of doing that right now So a couple of the revenues that I had okay, and this was just cleaning up some stuff. So and I don't know if this ever got moved back, but Ticket revenue So we had to increase the ticket revenue at one point because we were talking about potentially increasing Right, so I thought I didn't touch the ticket revenue at that time What I did was I took this 21 65 based on the percentage of the year we were at now Looked at the 4 000 for last year and that's how I came up with the 5619 um because I was thinking at 21 65. We were on target to do more but You know, it's it's hard to know frankly. So based on what I had done there I had Cleaned up the revenue a little bit. So what'd you put traffic? I took it down to 4 000. Okay And then you answered the question on the solid waste admin because that got approved Because that was a question mark. Yeah, and then one thing that we have to be careful of and Theresa. I've been talking about is so because Years ago we were behind on a considerable amount of property taxes over in the town that on the revenue side of things we carry Revenue in there for things that should have been paid before right so penalties and interest and back taxes Which was good years ago because we were collecting those right? But now that we've done a good job of collecting a majority of those We have to start adjusting those revenue numbers down because if we keep those revenues there all of a sudden we're gonna You know miss it by one or two pennies. Exactly. So I had looked at Taking those down even farther, which was like 10 000 on the penalty and 15 000 on the interest which is Whatever 5 000 there because we do have a tax sale schedule the date just So it dropped the revenue page by like 6600 dollars. Okay On that piece of it and then cost-wise I didn't have any I guess the biggest question I've cost-wise is and I and I feel good that it's gonna happen is some of the I think that those retirement percentages that are in this budget probably will allow us to Put some money somewhere else, you know, and I had a question, you know, had you talked to Kurt since his meeting He sent me an email on I last time I checked my email was Wednesday and he had was in a meeting somebody had the numbers and he was gonna forward to them to me, but I have not checked my email since As I just returned today So I do think there's going to be some money there and I want to see it go. I think capital improvements between the roads and the capital like buildings because the roof That's gonna open that that's The roof the fascia the soffit that's going to open up a can of worms It has to and I'm waiting for a price from bob conif and then I have him repairing this roof I already have somebody prepared to do the inside work over here that needs to be fixed because of the leak and In the town garage, it's going to be pricey when we looked at the three architects They were like you're you know It's going to be a million bucks and um, I think what we my thought recently is Bringing in someone who does metal buildings like there's a contractor over in ruttland and just Or I'll go to ruttland. I might just go talk to the guy and just be like look I like the one that they build Chelsea Yeah Where did they do it? Yeah Oh, okay. Yeah, so that's not the town of Randolph. No, no, no, but it's a private thing that's a huge Oh, okay. All right. I'm sorry. I was like thinking Yeah, I'll find yeah, absolutely. I know where you mean and also too like I said, I'm just thinking about talking to someone because Who does it, you know, who find out what because I know metal costs steel costs were up, but the architects were like you We were he or they for three of them One gentleman was a little more reasonable. I thought than the others, but some of them were like, yeah You know, you're they we were looking for 600,000 a very specific and he was like you're looking friendly in box and I'm like No, no, so did anybody have questions about the appropriations the service Appropriations I have a little my little question on Health insurance I see the the note at the side it says three family and one Yeah, we offer the town of Bethel honestly we We do offer health insurance and if they don't take it because they're on a plan with their spouse or Three thousand dollars is the payment in lieu of insurance. It's been that way since I came it's very low But sometimes some people increase the payment and look to basically buy people So maybe they'll stay with us spouses insurance instead of using ours Um, but what we do what it currently is and has been for a long time is three thousand dollars So if you stay on your spouses that three thousand dollars is included in your pay and it helps offset Maybe you're deductible or any premium that you pay and we do have a couple people that take advantage of that But it's it's a deal for us So All right, right and that might be something we Might want to take a better look at in the next Is there a way to make that a medical Saving plan Well currently the insurance that we have comes with an hra So whether we could add an hsa. I don't know I don't know because our plan the current plan that people participate in here comes with a health reimbursement account I don't know what it would take to add an hsa. We may be too late for this year because our plan here is january Because an hsa would include the things that you just mentioned Yeah, yeah And currently we give it to people in their salaries assuming that They'll use it for but in my salary is taxed If it's a benefit it's a health benefit. It's not it's right. It's a benefit But it also increases your you know, I think it also Adds into your retirement as well your retirement value But um, I'd have to look so haven't done payroll We don't do payroll anymore. I have to look because I can't remember but um, so currently that's just what we give people is it and it adds You know $115 38 cents per pay period that we say here use this for your medical insurance if they use it to buy fuel oil that's what they use it for but it's more of a Not every town does a payment in lieu of health insurance and at $3,000 to no incentive to keep people off our insurance I'll tell you that it's more of a So let's either do away with it or maybe potentially or increase it. Yeah And I'm asking because that's 3000. That's an income That the other employees are not getting but the other employees are getting out much larger value Yeah, they're making out when I do someone who's on health insurance and I do Their entire salary FICA medi retirement do their whole you know payment and then compared to that person, you know, there's I have no guilt over that because I don't I feel like it's trying to make something That's already inequitable equitable had this struggle for 15 years in this job and it's a tough thing But I think Chris is right. I would hate to see it done away with because you're used to it but I think if you were really using it as a Caret to get people off your insurance, which would save you a lot of money then you need to increase it No, yeah, I agree and probably something we should probably I can look at at the turn of the year when we revisit our policies is Does this make sense? Should we do more should we do less and I can I'd have to ask about you know, Dave's favorite question is Let's take a look at the whole formula, you know, therese Hang on right and it just I combined With hre question and it's not a bad time to look at the whole formula the whole package will depend on Yeah, the percentages As they change often and Yeah, this year it actually did the increase in premium was like less than was like 0.06 percent In premium this year and the people as employees are You know, certainly our contribution to the um Now deductible Thank you I'm sorry paul hr. Did anyone have any questions about um paul and his committees No, I didn't So I know it's wrong in here paul. I just leveled it in here, but um Did you have any new applicants? No No, we did not We did though decide as a group that what we're going to do is um in the town of port Put a paragraph or two down below this chart is usually a very ugly picture So we're going to lose the picture And we're going to put in a couple of paragraphs that describes the process that we go through to have people apply for this these appropriations So that if there are any local organizations that aren't taking part in it now They'll have an idea of how to get involved Sure, that's great And it's mostly targeted at more there are several local, you know, Bethel organizations that are involved in the the process yet and they would be able to see How to how to do that Do you have a cube, you know, I think I sent you the sample policy to be able to see too Is that something you guys are going to work on or think about or? You know, I did I need to read what you said and we can't come up with a policy Basically just would align the process that we have right now Which might be nice in a way and then we could this because I don't know if this has this I don't know the answer if the select board has ever formally adopted or done anything with the way I don't know. I just know you guys have done that I've always kind of gone on through. Yeah, I didn't know and we need to clean that up a little bit There are some procedural issues that we need to deal with we are a tough committee So there are certain things that we need to do that we haven't been doing So we have to kind of clean that up. That's right. It will have to remember that closer to march about Reappointments and things. Yes. Yeah. Thank you for that because yeah, I didn't know and when you said bad photo It just reminds me that tonight We I need to take a photo of the select board So don't go running out of here after the meeting insurance because Kelly asked for a new photo for the town report, please But thank you guys for doing that that is such a help that you guys meet and look at all that and embed it And do the report. It's very handy So you did not get a request from the club Nope, did you have any expense questions? Probably because they're not aware of the problem You know, I was going to add 16 to the highway fund and five to the wall But if we have enough money for the wall, then I didn't think that too. I was thinking of was this Yeah, I know. Yep. Good question. But But they never got back to us on promotion I didn't see the pool of stuff was caught. No, well, we didn't know we started I don't know what the budget there because we don't know we're still waiting to hear back from contractors about the pool And how much it's going to cost we're still trying to it's going to take us a little bit longer to finagle People together to get that and as far as the wall, I've been trying to get an estimate Is it reg bar? I have talked to Tristan I've talked to a couple and I've been waiting and one guy Greg was the only one who said he would give me an estimate and I've been waiting and I asked Kelly while I was Going like can you please harass this man legitimately until So I have some concrete and did somebody say that there was either Either vtc had Program or one of that area high schools had something where they go out and I don't know. I've never heard that. Well Was that new? They used to. I don't know if they still do. Yeah, I had mentioned last year when we were talking about the wall And repointing this building. Yes, tomorrow does Yes, sir. Masonry class on brick. Gotcha. Okay. Talk with them about being a site They didn't end up running. There's lack this past year. Okay. Um, I'm not sure why but I could reach out to them and just say Hey, if you need a site That would be wonderful. Would you be a site and do whatever, you know, it usually comes with like You have to do some light work or you have to do some Whatever and they'll tell you That would be great. Do you mind doing that? No, and I can ask them. They do have a few Stone classes. I don't know if it's quite this style like the ones that I know of are more dryland stone Not bordered in like this and so I could ask them if they know of anybody who'd be even willing to come and do a quote Or if they would want to do a class Yeah Because I have reached out to I had two or two people for sure. I had something one One guy take a look at him one gentleman who said he would give us a quote and he never showed up and then And so when I was doing the budget, I asked Kelly. I'm like, can you please just Call him every day Just because I didn't know, you know, you're trying to throw a number at something and I don't Know and I think the guy at first had said I was in the ballpark between last year and this year So even if we only get a portion of it done that we budget more for next year because I had even offered to do it Over a two-year, you know stent or whatever, but until I have an idea how much it's going to cost Right and get it done now because the longer we wait the more damage will happen You want to talk to me about the scoped work in it on the wall? The what? Do you have a document of the scoped work on the wall? I don't because I need someone to come and look at it and give me some ideas about I had Tristan Klein I was texting with him called him email and he came and I think he was going to take a look at it He was super busy and Because it's an interesting one because like mortared in the back. So it looks like loose stone But I don't I mean I don't have enough knowledge to put together a scope of work So that's why I wanted like two or three estimates and I took photos of it and sent it to people and So but everybody was so busy that Wasn't a big deal. So, you know, like they were like, eh, I have bigger jobs, but I'll reach out again to Tristan too Did you Enright I think so that was a name we had but um, I know it was somebody in royalty, but would enright Okay, last. All right, I will I know I did last Or a year or so ago I think so I think we had a couple ar ml. Yeah We had, um What was the first name like Thank you. He's in the he's in the herald here in the business. Okay, because I know um We had um, I had even we'd found anybody in the area and sent information photos and stuff and had you know But people are so busy They're like, eh, so we'll do it again and and um, so we have something better to build from So do you think we'll have the updated Retirement numbers and yes, we could have a pretty Close. I think you should be able to finalize final next time. I think on the 27th You should be able to finalize the budget. I mean not like we're Far off. No, we're not. I mean just touching up a little bit here and there, but yes I think so. I'm hoping that when I check my email tomorrow that do the um, do the listers have any idea of Any movement on the grand list or Do they have any no, I mean I used the number I used was up a little bit and but I mean, I'm not I think she's looking at something that's fairly consistent a little bit That's been off with them is and not their fault is the um Current use because the state is behind but I don't think they're expecting to see a lot of movement Okay I I know what I always just figure we're not going to see any growth in the grand list. It's just easier If you see it, it's nice and it helps you out, but Never count on it. I would chris. I would support your idea of adding a percent Okay, I'm kind of presenting a two percent for a two cent budget And we'll put that extra cent in capital funds in capital or highway fund Well, it's not a lot of money. It's only like 21 grand Better than a sharp stick in the eye Yeah, well the highway might be the best way to go because there's in the next five years with that extra 1.7 billion that's coming to vermont you know if you have If you have your funds ready and shovel ready projects, you're probably more apt to get projects, you know Because they're gonna have to spend money Where capital right now I don't think we really've got our duck in a row Close enough to spend it, right? What I mean on roads well capital would be No, are you town garage or oh, right? No, I mean well because we I mean right where the highway Capital the cat like the improvement budget. I feel like I have numbers I mean I have numbers for the garage numbers for the town office those in there that's in there and set but roads or something we need to Snuff out for the whole town instead of this piecemeal But um, but yeah, so I think that's good. All right. I'll make sure I'll do that for next time the climate action plan does include Conversations about weatherization for towns town buildings. Yeah. Yeah, and and town fleets Going electric so There are There may be those will be capital expenditures as well Yep, and that's something we definitely look at. We insulated the basement of town hall or town office a couple years ago That's why we need to do the roof ones. Obviously once the new garage is built it would be more energy efficient I mean those are I'm just yeah Yeah, yeah, I think the good thing that we face in Bethel anyways is I mean obviously we're a small town But we don't have that great infrastructure like we don't have Dozens of municipal buildings, you know, we have just a couple of municipal buildings Is the library of town property? No The library that's why they the library receives Receives support. Yep. She they had to receive minimal support There's a certain figure in there. I thought I read the letter. So I yeah, so that they Maintain funding. Yeah, but they've got something in there for insulation too. Yeah. Yeah, she's right. It's not it's not technically a municipal Identity. The Lindley's right. Yeah, it's a trust. So it's not so I mean we're looking at this building fire station And then, you know, we're yeah, I mean this building and the fire station Has had a lot of renovations of late. So what we may have to do with these two buildings would Wouldn't necessarily be in either deal break And then the good things that we have is the other two buildings that we have are ones that we Plan on doing something with, you know, so we can build that into it And then, you know, our fleet On average, what are we fives? Five to seven years on a turnaround on I think I built we built the budget on eight years So it kind of gives us that comfortable spot as the trucks come up we can And the trucks swap them out. The trucks are Iffy right now in terms of electric. Yeah, yeah, I don't see that But I mean I would make it up like if you went biodiesel or whatever it might be. But but Anyway, there are Also conversations in the plan about retrofitting current fleets As those technological Things come available recognizing that Dump trucks could be on Could be maintained for you Like I said, the good thing is that our fleet is on a maintainable cycle that when the information gets Sent to our level, you know, we'll have a period of time to deal with it Which should fit into our timeline on cycling through our equipment, you know, I mean And they'll look at that the technical, you know, the buildings and stuff like that would be more a town focus Or or or, you know, or extra You know things But Okay, so we'll retool this so there was a question about the library's Yeah, they they gave us a nice. Yeah So is that uh, we good with that? Yeah, I seem pretty good with that. I mean I I I almost think that and I and I know we've done a pretty good job of As these come, you know updating, you know, these Numbers, you know, like either permit numbers or just how we okay Well, you've done this job for, you know, 40 years and you get $250 stipend, you know like So I think we've done a pretty good job of like identifying those and kind of bringing those numbers a little closer to present day As we see them, but you know, maybe we can make that another To-do list for us to look through at the turn of the year when we look through policies and you know, what are some of these You know, like you're saying the library it's been funded like that for You know, probably ever, right? They probably they've probably kept that $2,500, you know every year for the last 20 years You know, I'd have to go back. Yeah, it's nice. That was nice. It was informative. You know, well, if that's population based evidently, but The only thing I didn't get out of that sheet that I know we didn't ask them directly but kind of indirectly was it would be really nice if they had You know, kind of like a capital plan sheet like we have and I know they provided they might their expenditures But it would be nice to see like Okay, I'll make it up our turnaround on computers is every Six years so every six years we've got to buy new computers every You know periodic or whatever it is and it'd be nice to kind of see If we put in $5,000 each year, how is that going to affect your expenditures? Or is there a year coming where you're going to need more? bigger, you know And they may I could ask Lisa and Lisa because it almost sounds like Still is they're just saying well, this is kind of what we need to get by like, you know, like And that's great, but how could we maybe do more with that and that's the end of a question I had because I had requested a book That they didn't have and was wondering if they could get it with the library loan And they said that they didn't have that service Now, I don't know if that's a financial thing Or if that was a misunderstanding Uh, but it would seem to me that especially in a small town To be able to borrow from An if you're a statewide inter-bibrary service, I would think would be critical Yeah, I think that's something we should it'd be nice to see on some of those Calm appropriations, you know, you know, what is the actual? You know, how does our funding fit into your brand scheme of things? But that would be a service that I would Support Somebody funding you know like the council on the issue. Yeah, the council on the arts is 2000 But the historical society's five, you know, like how does that money affect you? And now we do know that the best historical society of 500 wasn't even enough money because we ended up having to You know, bring the rent to zero so that they could, you know Keep a flow so I think a lot of these are just numbers that have just been placeholders for years You know, I mean obviously like You know, how about they send letters telling us what their BLCT and stuff like that update their stuff every year But like some of the older ones are probably You know been there for a while, but yeah, and they send us letters asking yeah telling us how much they want This might be something more to Can get stuck in the rut too True All right anything more budget wise for now we good with like Viewing the budget at the two percent Or two cents on the the dollar And and then we'll have a more up-to-date budget next time with you should be able to vote on it next time But Dave didn't final retirement and stuff like that. Yeah, I should I'm hoping my email, but Dave All right, how do you feel about that? Well, I don't think it's any more than enough. I mean, I we've all got the history of our one of our previous town managers who Had a budget level funded for years and years and then all of a sudden we're at home and all as a whole And nothing's fixed. I mean, I go I look around and money you're talking about on on roads is better, but The greater is upgrading the edge That's true. There's no gravel on our roads anymore Ditches right by my house where we used to have to Drive upon the road Now it's it's a foot or more to drive into the woods or the field So we've lost This much material you're right on all of our roads And it would be millions of dollars that put it all back so if every little bit we put in addition to the boys can get out there and It's not what happened in one year. It's not what happened in five years, but we need to move back I think you're right. That's why I put five thousand dollars more in for ditching and we just started the application process for more of those Because that's the state mandate of course is doing more of the hydrologically connected segments I actually one of the ones on the top was was right road And so I just wrote a grant with rita before I left doing an estimate to do that and But you're right We need to be putting gravel on the roads and we need to dig out the ditches You're right and that's why I put a little bit more in there and it's I'm hoping next year I can get further like more footage and um, and I know and I know we tweaked it a little bit last year I agree and it doesn't show it doesn't show previous to the the 2019 budget, but We had for quite a long time. We had kind of a level funded like 25 000 a year for gravel And then Therese and I two years ago looked at yeah, I'd gotten some information from local roads or somewhere that they talked about How much how much per mile on gravel roads because anytime we talk about roads we talk about paved roads most time, right? but they started talking about like how much should you budget per gravel road And I think at that point that number came out to the 45 000 that we Increased it to so we put like 20 000 a year more into that gravel road piece of it But that's just to maintain not to make up what you may have lost Yeah, so and then kind of looking at right now we got 40 in there so we could you know Yeah, I mean I think put five in there or something to bring it back up to the 45 But I guess and we get and some of it too is I is I feel like by Contracting it out weeks. Sometimes we just get more done. It's a bigger machine. They can go faster They can go farther and by contracting I have a little I have more say over how much it's done What's the budget that goes out and how much we can do and we did we ended up doing? You know kind of a hybrid this year because we did like east Bethel So we shouldn't have to technically go back for a few years now that that's done and paved and So we have to do gilead in the spring We ended up jumping up and doing something on brink because we had a pretty big culvert to do So we ended up doing that because the equipment and It's funny. There's a piece of my brain that thinks There's the road crew to just maintain and then you use Contract staff to actually gain ground and get somewhere because if these guys in the winter plow and snow in the summer They're clean and brush and doing And and grading and putting material actually putting material on the road And doing maybe some smaller culverts, but then we have more Contract staff. I mean I could spend 50 in a summer just like this year. We did Sanders We did some brink. We did east Bethel We did you know and then next year and I have another christian hill is going out to bid in january So I mean I'm always trying to run with grant money, but you know, I'm with Of course the other thing too that I have and hired terms Farther I can get of course typically your gravel budget and your paving budget Usually are held hostage until you get through winter, right? So if you have a really bad winter where you Dipped into more of your winter funds than you do less grappling and less paving in the spring. So sometimes You know, we might come out of a real rough winter and we had 45 in the budget But now tress is like are we going to make up 10 somewhere, you know, so that becomes 35, right? Which again doesn't get us down the road any farther like we were talking about but Yeah, and this would be a good time to just Ask the question About setting the plow height on gravel roads for maybe differently than you do on paved roads I don't know how many wheelbarrows full of gravel I pulled out of my front yard Last spring But it was a lot At least I thought of the sort. Well, at least we didn't charge you for it. Yeah You didn't send him a bill for that Hard to know I couldn't speak to that frank. That's yeah, it's just on my yeah But if if they're running scraping the road on a paved road, you really don't want to do that on a gravel road I'm not sure that they're doing that on the ground. They're not doing that on the gravel road I think what you're getting is sand maybe I think that may be a great idea but to drive up to The north main street stop pick the ball up reset your shoes and go that that isn't not working But most of the time because You're wanting to get I think An awful lot of complaints because if you start picking those shoes up you're just going to start leaving the crap and then pretty soon it's ice But most of I I'll shovel gravel out of my yard, which I haven't had to I haven't had to move A wheelbarrow load in 15 years. That's because you don't get you don't have any gravel up there. That's what that's true The other thing too is some of that made you happy, right? Some of that is sand I still have gravel on my road Yeah, you think we have gravel still Some of the rock is sizing like this. Well, I think a majority of the time the roads frozen anyways, right? So it doesn't really matter, but you get that spring event when things are thawing or the early Yeah, or the fall event. No, that's when you get a lot of that material moving. So All right, so budget-wise we'll finish it up next time and then we just want to Finish our discussion regards to the town warning And then just a few things I just wanted to get out there on the town warning is So typically every year the town warning is like the same, you know, it's it's the same Copy-paste, you know, maybe easy there.  Yeah, yeah But so this year our idea was just, you know, we had some potential Ideas to put on the warning Now the easiest way for us as board members to see those on a warning is to put them on the warning, right? And I think there's a little bit of confusion out there right now with Just because they're on this Paper draft warning doesn't mean they're on the warning So if we take them off doesn't mean they were on the warning that we just got rid of it Just means this was kind of our open session of thought process of Just like the budget throw stuff on the wall. Do we want it? Do we not want it? And then we voted in to make it an official warning So I just wanted to get that out there because it seemed like there was a little bit of confusion in the public eye on You know either concerns the oh, why are we going to remove that off it? Well, yeah, hasn't technically been on it yet It's just kind of our It's just a draft it's just a working working session board, you know Because it makes it easy for us to see it Yeah, I have to come up with something every year and now I always go through it and make sure see if there's any changes VLCT which is Vermont League of Cities and Towns give you a sample as there been change in the legislation And there has over the years we used to vote on a on a grandeur and a town agent And those are no longer we don't have to do those anymore so sometimes there are changes within the year and Yes, if people bring up issues sometimes I throw it on the warning Just so I can be sure I've mentioned it to you or someone has mentioned something to me about it um So I put that on here. Um, so last time it's just kind of a working document last time and David Dave wasn't here um So we had we had thoroughly talked about the Retail marijuana piece of it um As well as we had talked about the two australian ballot pieces, which was the hybrid methods of either you know doing the budget through australian ballot or doing the uh candidates through australian ballot is where is how we had it on there. Um, and then And then gene had brought up about the climate change um Coordinator, I guess that some of the regional um Towns are either implementing or thinking about implementing um as a as a method of moving the um The mob piliar agenda down to the municipalities. So Um, so those were kind of the four things we were talking about and Didn't just correct me if I'm wrong if I it seemed like the board overwhelmingly um Was for not Not bringing the retail marijuana piece to the warning So we the four of us that were here all agreed on Not moving forward with that for a couple of reasons. Well one was There's still discussions being had at the state still trying to iron some of these pieces out how they look Uh, and there has been no retail Um Request requests in the works. So we just figured that we would just wait another year and you gotta put it on We'll put it on We did have a discussion about about we had someone who had an approach about cultivation And that's not covered by the town regulated. Yeah, and I I just think I think it's important that We're clear and that I'm clear in my language that we are not opposed to retail cannabis There's just so much change and then do with coven We felt like that the council itself was trying to work out some of the details And we had a list of towns Randolph being one of them. So, um It's not that we're opposed to it It's just that we were kind of waiting for other towns to work out in the state to figure all the Legislature. So if we do do it next year, at least we have there's like a history behind us of Understanding exactly how it's going to work because there's still some confusion Certainly in my mind In a large part of that cannabis council and all that and a large part of that mechanism wasn't necessarily I mean, obviously it's allowing somebody to sell marijuana inside your town area But the even larger piece that they leave off is It was really meant for a lot of the bigger municipalities that have local tax codes. So Bethel doesn't have a local tax code But if you were in to make it up Williston that has a 1% tax code then by implementing that not only are you allowing the sale of it We are allowing to collect that extra 1 cent Wax yeah where Bethel doesn't have to worry about that So, you know, so I guess that was another piece we had talked about and I think there was some still issue about that Whether you could become a tiff district just because of cannabis or not and um, so I think there was still some there to figure out because You couldn't obviously if you created a tiff district to take that extra tax it affects everybody, you know all businesses in town So it's definitely and then we talked about the Australian ballot pieces which was You know Voting from the floor voting by Australian ballot or some type of hybrid method And I think, you know, we we probably were a little more divided on that one The Australian ballot piece for the budget articles themselves We the four of us had agreed that we thought that We didn't want to put that on the warning that that was best served in person But then we were split when it came to Australian ballot by officers or Those piece that we've had So we didn't take any well, we didn't really take any actually on any of them. That was just kind of a pre-tally vote So that's kind of where the thing that came Realization I came to actually just a few hours ago Is I found myself getting hung up or spending more time thinking about whether or not I Thought Australian ballot was a good idea or not As opposed to what we're What we're doing here is deciding whether we want to put it out there for the town Right discuss right side. Yeah, it's not I I will get a chance to voice my opinion the day of the vote If the town said, you know, if we put it out there and then we have a vote then I can exercise my opinion At that point absolutely, but I was getting all hung up with Whether or not I thought Australian ballot versus in person Was a good idea or was a better idea or or whatever I was getting too hung up with that part of it and And kind of forgot the part that we are putting this out there. There'll be a discussion There'll be people that stand up for it against it the town the people at the town meeting will will vote and And yes, it's not a big representative Goods, you know cross section of the town But it it is what it is Exactly. That's a great way to put it It is what it is. You're right. They can people if people want to come in and have a more a vocal discussion or a more Then come to the town meeting And and do that have that discussion But I don't think we can ever go wrong with putting it out there to let the taxpayers make the decision instead of us making the decision And and you're you're certainly serving up a population that I mean the people that come to town meeting I know that is a large That seems to be the largest fear and that's probably what you hear too, Paul I imagine is that people are afraid we're going to lose town meeting I think that's a fear that some people have is that we'll lose that sense of community and voting and You know we able to discuss some kind of hash things out as a group, so That's what I hear. Is that what you hear? Oh, yeah, no, I mean it can you know, we've all heard You know, we've seen and heard some of the conversations that are being had Where you basically could eliminate town meeting and just the other thing Australian ballot and lake last year And you know, and I don't I don't want to see that go away. I think it's important for the townspeople to come together in that format young old whoever can get there To take parking No, I mean I I agree with you Paul and I You know I was a no vote on the Australian ballot stuff when we were talking last You know two two weeks ago But I mean I think mine isn't on You know the voters Rights to vote on something mine is more the formality of The warning and and what I mean by that is typically the warning is like we said the warning, right? It's the warning is the warning like every year. It's mostly the same things on there unless there's something special. It comes up like it might be Exuberant cost that we didn't anticipate like Making up a water bomb or something that we need to put on there that's different than normal But I think the thing that I'm worried about most is you know Is just throwing stuff on the warning without knowing what people want And and that's why I had been open to Australian ballot, but also open to you know, let's Let's put a questionnaire out there and get exactly what it is You know if if we put it out there and get back 400 people and 350 people say We want Australian ballot by But by candidate then we put that on the warning, you know, I mean so it's like a more direct Peace because where does it stop? I mean, you know, not just Australian ballot But where does it stop on anything putting on the warning? You know if it's You know And you were looking for a bigger sample size because you felt that the town meeting the town report goes to every Registered voter and property owner. So I got the impression You were also looking for a larger sample size than just because technically hundreds of people right because technically if we do it Right now we put it on the warning, right and You know, will you get a few extra people maybe because it's a topic? But I mean traditionally we're 200 people, right 200 people come and vote and you know Where if we send it out to the you know the whole listing You know You may get back 400 or 500, you know questionnaires that say This is what we would like to see, you know whatnot, but But the other thing too is I don't understand what the big rush is like if we did this year versus if we did next year What is the big rush like, you know, what is the burning? We aren't the only ones who can put things on the warning. I mean, I believe the statue says that five percent of the voters Put in a petition We will have to put it on there only You know, go ahead finish. There is only certain things only things that the town residents like you they couldn't say to you They couldn't pass a petition that says they want to put a dog park on the warning. Oh, no, no, no Only things that they have this particular item. Yes particular item If these people that want this right really want it Dig down and get the 50 people or whatever they need to sign a petition and it's on the warning it's not Yes, we can decide But they can decide too if they really would if they really want this They can make that decision too That's true, Dave. There is so my concern is I I hear and I read things and all this but I don't see anybody doing anything to make it happen You know, you want it work for it a little bit That that's where I'm and by the way, I'm against voting So Yeah, I mean I do I think we all kind of have you know, there's Pauses and negatives of anything, right? And it's it's not so much what how we feel the The result of whatever it might be Will be there. It's more, you know It's more getting a large sample size because I mean pretty much at this point other than I bet you I've talked to I don't know 15 Or so people in the town that I know like And we've had what a sample population of about five at each meeting that we took, you know So, I mean, you know, I'm it's hard to gear gear it on 25 people, you know You know, how how can we get the most bang for a buck we talked about Yeah, not only doing a survey but doing like a survey monkey and you can have multiple things where you can collect it But there was also it wasn't just for that. There was There's a few different Pieces and I don't know where I had had written it down at some point, but we had the You know the australian ballot piece. There's the marijuana piece There was the one of my constable. Oh, uh, you know, if we wanted to go to a full-time constable And there was other people that might so there was a couple other things and I had mentioned something like Doing something similar to like the Doyle poll like Here are four or five things that we are You know contemplating putting on a warning or doing something in the budget We want to get your information so that we can see You know if overwhelming people want to see it then I mean, we're We're voted in here to do what the majority of the people in town want to want to see it And you're not those aren't the only questions. I actually had a couple committees. I think the recreation I think it was rec and uh, you know, we got like the pool Planning The as part of as a member of the planning commission We wanted to put a question or two on there because you know, we're rethinking zoning regulations and always working on the town plan So there are other committees that wanted to get if you end up doing that and and I did tell piggyback So far, I've kind of asked kelly and Penny sorry, it's falling press that I just said so far We're going to leave that back page so that it's one sided and maybe put the town's return address on the back But in case you want to do that so someone could cut it out if you and maybe you do a survey anyways, I don't know but um So there was other interest in that so So I don't think that 14 Would be able to someone couldn't pass a petition for that Because that's not something that would be things that you can pass a petition for things that Would have to go in front of the voters anyways and that's not one of them That's you could you could do that in your own budget What so 14 Shall they if you wanted to establish a staff position? I don't think you could pass I don't believe a petition would be could be passed for that because a petition can be passed only That it was someone could pass one But it doesn't mean this like what has to act on you only have to act on things that normally have to go in front of the voters like Cannabis, uh, Australian about that sort of thing because that you could pick up in your own budget You could just say hey, we're going to throw x amount of dollars in for this position in the future But so anyways, um, does anyone have any changes misspellings Corrections grammar. I just I just want to comment. I think people have Exerted effort in the appropriate place, which is right now that people are the select Whether or not the select board wants to put out of the town morning Questions of australian valley And and I think there have been people including the select board members who have Suggested that having Population vote is an appropriate thing to do. Is it something that has to be voted at a town meeting Uh, and I don't think Personally, I think if it is warned and if it is adequately promoted The town will speak and that's the survey that counts Whether it's this year or next year And so I would you know reiterate my support for I think it's 12 that the officers be elected by australian valley It provides the greatest accessibility to the greatest number of citizens therese Can you differentiate for me the difference between australian ballot and absentee ballot? sure if you had um, for example the what um I have I was I we call I call it my head hooten holler, but you're voting from the floor if you're voting from the floor Um like you do currently there is no absentee ballot. That's be present. You have to be present to vote Unless it's like the school right the school doesn't act does um an australian ballot for their officers And and maybe their budget. I'm not familiar with their No, no just their their officers so If you have an australian ballot Like the school does and like we do for the governor then you can get an absentee ballot If you vote solely off the floor You have to be On the floor. You have to vote that day So that's the difference between absentee And uh, so if you if you're a hooten holler vote from the floor you have to be there But in the only other time you'd have an absentee ballot is if you had an australian ballot So if you vote australian ballot, um, then yes people can get an absentee just like they have for, you know, any other election um So anyways, since it's 7 33, I assume that you want to just go through and um, so everybody's okay with items One through is anybody has problems items one through 11 Obviously, I know there's blanks because we still got to do the budget Do you check to make sure those dates were not like sundays or i looked at saturdays or sundays or Correct, but I looked before but um, and I know I have an update with the human services board numbers now But is there any issues with items one through 11? Didn't we have wasn't there like number eight more specific as to Highway department or something like that you used I think you may you may have years ago But because you vote One budget you don't vote Some towns do vote just for the highway budget and just for but it all goes into the general fund because you don't I mean There's a statute about it, but I think it's there's some folks that may have seen it the other way Years ago, but you've been voting this way. Yeah, you've been voting this way for this morning has been like this for a while But I did see an old one Dave because I was looking for something for from a 2016 And it did look a little bit different But it doesn't really make sense to vote them separately in the sense that I mean you could we could do highway separately because they're not tracked in a separate fund But um, I can go back and look so I'll double check Dave that I didn't miss anything this year But I think it was this way last year, but I'll double check highway separate question mark um But I did see it in like 2016 it was And I do think that um another town used to vote them separately, but I'll double check maybe I cut Maybe I cut and pasted something wrong And nine I'll update with the um current numbers that we just received Um now we have a better we did get numbers from Steve Webster, so I have an updated number for the white belt ambulance I can put in there And I had checked the dates before but I'll double check my dates for um It does get a little confusing for people if we go 15 16 15 We give people a grace period now anyways of three days, so sure um And then number 12 is shall the voters elect its town officers by Australian ballot pursuant to 17 bsa What do you want to do just go on the table Sure. Yeah, we can Well, I guess we could just take a hand vote on on you know 12 and 13 All right, so 12 shall the voters elect its town officers by Australian ballot pursuant to 17 bsa Raising our hand if we want to see it on the morning or You just see or you could just do one at a time you want to see it on the morning? Yes It's to be a yes The gene says yes Paul says yes No, Chris says no I say no Dave says no Let us okay, so we're going to put the officers are going on The ballot, okay Then shall the voters atop all budget articles by Australian ballot pursuant to 17 bsa I think you all agreed no on this 13 is budgeted Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, did you say no Yeah, oh you said thank you paul harder than that No No No No Okay, so budget is not okay now. I'm going to play devil's advocate. Okay, so if if this is solely about If australian ballot is solely about Individuals or having a better opportunity to voice in this case vote Then why would you do one yes and one no? I mean so so in this case what you're going to have now is you're going to have If you go on last year's numbers you're going to have 450 people They're going to show up to vote australian ballot if it went through australian ballot for the candidates, right next year not this coming right you're up But then you're going to have 200 people they're going to come and do the the budget right in person So if this is really about You know if this is really about everybody having this opportunity to Which which again nobody will ever change my opinion on this But everybody has the opportunity to get down there and vote on town meeting Yeah, and and I know everybody has an excuse in the book why they can't do it But I have been here for 15 16 years now I have a family I brought in my own babies there my own kids there single dad you name it I have done it You know, it's just like oh, I can't get on the select board because x y z.  I go to all my kids basketball games There is a way you can do this and I'm sorry But for people to say they don't have the time or they got a million other excuse can't get time off From work can't pay for this can't don't have transportation. There is a way every year I plan ahead of time.  I used to take the day off from work, you know Well, you know and it's just like it's it's no different in the committee things There's a million excuses why people can't come to committees You know can't be a part of committees But you know, I'm sorry you can be there But in this case, it's like why say yes to one and no to the other I think why not put them all on there? Well, I think it's about accessibility put all of them on there I think that for some people it might be that if they vote for the an officer Australian ballot They may feel that that person is down the road going to I don't know if they feel maybe they'll protect them to going through the budget as far as if they if they elected Me then they know I am fiscally conservative. So they're thinking okay. She's cheap So if we elect her, she's going to help keep a handle on the budget and through the budget year. So maybe Just playing you know answering A possible option for chris's question is maybe some people I think there's some people who want to see everything Australian ballot anyways But I for but for maybe for people who just want us to see the officers It could be they also too. You're giving it to the voters They could all vote it down because they're the same 200 people that come every year. They all may say no forget it We're here But maybe it helps them feel like they're choosing a candidate that's going to help them with the other thing So I don't but there's there's also a lot of miss information out there And I'm sorry and I I talked to one individual that is very strong about Australian ballot in this town and gave me a a bunch of really good reasons why We should have Australian ballot and and made the thing and said You know a majority of the towns in the state of Vermont are australian ballot and why are we not? So I said well, I'm going to go look look this up. So I've been doing some information Looking through it. So there's You know and this this is how fast nowadays somebody tells somebody and now it becomes a fact, right, right? So So I was under the assumption that bevel was kind of one of a kind Maybe there's only a couple of us that we still do everything from the floor. That's the way I thought it was So I went and looked up and you can look it up right up Through the state of Vermont So there's 237 towns in the state of Vermont Can anybody tell me random guess Of how many of those towns do australian ballot here I was gonna say But that's not a majority of the towns I know no, there's 43 towns that do australian ballot in vermont Oh, I thought I was thinking 50 and if you look at where those towns are at They're all in major populated centers that can't possibly put people in a building, right Burlington south burlington wilson.  Let's figure out what that hybrid thing is and then put it on the warning You know, I mean it's like So some of them do like You know Vote the budget from the floor vote, you know, so there's different hybrid methods to it, but yeah, but there's so many people out there. It's just you know Australian ballot everybody's doing it like we need to do it too and I'm like Okay, and I'll look into it and then I look and I'm like, uh, there's not many people I do and everything 100% Australian ballot, you know I think it's interesting. I didn't realize I figured it would have been a much higher percentage I do know some towns who do a hybrid like I say hybrid meaning the fact that they do officers, but Not the budget. I did know one new haven switched to the budget and it was It was funny is it all still passed, but you missed that discussion because like we experienced last year We had at our one meeting There was like 15 people there and then when we had our informational meeting there was the six of us and three others So so for us we were like, well, you know, we put so much thought and effort and work into the budget And we didn't get very much feedback. That's one thing. I will say like it or not. You get feedback from the floor Sometimes it's it's scary, but um, I think there's a lot to say too about making amendments to the budget from the floor to me feels like one of the most important pieces that Individual citizens can actually affect change directly on that day and a great example What was it like three or four years ago when from the floor we appropriated an additional $10,000 towards the skate park that couldn't have happened by an australian ballot vote and I feel like that is Not only something that's lost, but it's it's a bigger loss than just there's no discussion it's the loss is that The will of the people actually can't get vocalized. So it's not just that there's no discussion. It's that You actually squash the voice of the people in in that direct context. I think it's a little different with The elected officers the difference There is you can't nominate somebody from the floor day of so they have to have a little bit of sense that they want The position that they want to run that they're you know, they're essentially putting their name in And sort of to answer chris's question is like to me that is the big difference is The the voice of the people Has more impact when it comes to the budget and losing losing that voice by going to australian ballot feels So much bigger to me than the loss of the ability to nominate a candidate from the floor Right like okay so a candidate needs to know they want to be a candidate and put their name in and do the appropriate measures And then the vote happens and I think like like poh was saying this meeting in gene last meeting is really this is going to the voters it's my personal opinion is not to include the Budget because I feel that that loss is so much greater to our general population I think it's still going to be a hard sell to the voters that are present because if you When you look around I've only you know, I've been to What three maybe Four I've lost track how many Bethel town meetings, but whenever um, I guess last year It's always the same people So I you know, I mean, there's a lot of the same people That go to town meeting and there was a big outpouring last year people who really missed it even though Some people had put together that really nice option of of the untown meeting, which was great and But so it'll certainly be interesting to see how it goes. I mean and I understand what linley's in But then I have to come back to the whole point where you know, if we're talking about The voice of the people so Again, just I'm doing devil's advocate again on is We're okay with 450 people coming out to vote for candidates But then we're okay with 200 people changing things On town meeting day, right? So I mean if it's truly about the voice say it like say it's truly about the voice Don't can't play both if this comes up for a vote at town meeting It could say no the time to say no No, you don't want to do it. Absolutely and everybody says okay fine, but at least We've had a vote Whatever size representation it is at least it's been a vote of the public and not I was trying to look back. I you know, I only I have to for whatever reason I have two years where I don't have my books. They were from like 2008 or nine, but I could have sworn didn't we vote on an australian ballot one year At town meeting day. I'd have to go back and look. I don't think so. Wow Like about 10 years ago or so 12 maybe I'm even more I remember voting on one when I first came to town. I was trying to find him for whatever reason I I don't know. I didn't save those two years. I'll have to look at those And do you know if it got resoundingly voted down? You know, I know it got voted down. I just kind of remember I was trying to look to see if like you could see the you know, the vote tower and stuff and I I couldn't find the two years that Well, I think I think it will be interesting to see what happens this year. Yeah, but I would also Suggest that we might want to think about holding the town meeting at a different time So that or day of the week so that we can For those who are hourly workers Who for whom taking a day off may mean literally a day of lost pay. I think that there is a A Significant drawback And a barrier to their participation If we were to for example have the meeting on a Saturday or a sunday afternoon We may have different there's lots of studies out there gene Yeah, a lot of this research has been done and didn't show any significant change in numbers that show up Type of people that like this has been done throughout Vermont. Yes. Go and find this that's research. I don't know it off the top of my head, but I They tried like Saturdays or let me say Tuesday night. I hear that But if we were to have it At a time when most people are not Of working age are not at work The argument that they could choose to attend would be stronger And I don't think it negatively impacts those Who can choose to attend who are retired or farmers or whatever? Who would who may are more able to attend on a weekday morning? I just It may be a different group of people It will be But the accessibility Your farmers won't be there Well, it's like a perfect example of this is you take the Take take the town versus the school A good example every year is take the town meeting versus the school meeting, right? and I go to both of them and From what I see this is my observation is when I go to the town meeting Um there Uh usually is a little bit larger of retirement population Um And then when I go to the school meeting in in the evening There's usually a couple of families that show up that weren't there in in the morning But the numbers are almost the same. I mean actually in some cases the school meeting has been less than the town meeting And it's at a you know a six o'clock and that's where Lindley was saying They've you know, not just vermont, but across the country. They've done all these different Examples of like saturday and sunday and tuesday night and wednesday morning and Sometimes they get a little bit different sample population, but most of the time it's the same like the same results So it's kind of like, you know What time that's you know, I don't know I'm not arguing to increase the numbers. I'm trying to increase the accessibility The counter argument that becomes what about all the people who work on a saturday or what about like it sort of negates itself And I've gone around this argument multiple times with different people And I feel like every single time it kind of concludes out that You're always going to exclude a certain subset of people so if we Change it and even I know towns have even looked at do you do one year on a tuesday and one year on a saturday or one year during the morning and one year during the evening and it actually Worse than results when they when they changed it to try to give You know this group more accessibility this year like there's always going to be And one thing that was interesting is years ago at the school. They were trying to get more input at the school here and and they had An informational session and and the big thing was child care We can't come because we don't have child care. So the school started doing child care and guess how many extra people came Nothing, you know There was like and I dropped my two kids off because I was there and I didn't really need child care But they were there to hang out with the other kids and it was only like one or two kids there Yeah, you know, so there was her I think the Girl Scouts have done that before so um, so do you guys want to move to 14? Eight o'clock almost eight. Yes Well, what I mean town meeting. Yeah, the Girl Scouts simply what I did not say in an evening It's like the school board Six o'clock is dinner time For my kids and my grandchild They're getting home from work and trying to get food on the table and then trying to get the kid to bed This is not a time for having a community meeting community why not That's it's simply when you have young kids at home There are good Yeah, my kids are at home right now and I'm at this God bless you again, you're not I'm I'm I'm I'll keep to the same you guys can vote I God bless you I'm just saying that there are times of the week that are more accessible to more people than Sometimes the answer the answer that I've been been pushing to other folks is We need to stop arguing about it.  I think that's a good point But again, I We could get wrapped up in this for another but another example is You know, if we go to zoom we're gonna have all these extra people And there's three, right? There's usually five now. We have three. No, but I'm just saying there's always excuses. Sorry excuses Reasons why we can't go. Yeah, that's right. And You know it Yeah Okay, I want to reiterate accessibility is different from numbers attending. Yep More people are haven't accessible because of zoom whether they choose to take part or not True. All right. So the 14 number 14 is uh, shall the voters of beth'll establish a staff position I copied this directly from randolph Uh to because uh from the information the gene provided which was handy to develop the plan process and procedures across all town Departments to meet town climate change action goals knowing That there's no money in this current budget. So let's just we'll continue the round the table. Uh gene, do you want that on the No, but here's why If we put it on the ballot and then voted down then it ties our hands for the select board To consider Such a position To be voted on Budget-wise. Yeah the following year. Okay budget-wise it would have to be voted on the following year Anyway, yes Exactly. Yeah, great. Okay, perfect paul. No Chris. No Lindley No, okay, and I agree with gene and I just also wanted to just throw in there That you know, I still believe because of our size of our town and the limited pieces of infrastructure that we have that That we can make those changes inside our already approved town plan And through our select board and town manager so for us to Contract with somebody or split a piece. I think that we can as we are going You know a combination of the select board our town manager and buy-in, you know It would be nice to have some buy-in from the energy committee on You know, hey when you're when you're looking for I'll make it up a new truck, you know, these are some Maybe not policy, but here are some options that we should be looking for or if we're going to build something. These are You know energy efficiency options that we should be Including in our purchase or our build You know, I I mean I could see I read through everything that you sent and I mean if I'm the town of hartford You're probably going well. We got all this stuff because harford's got dozens of buildings and hundreds of you know town vehicles and that's a that's a large like Undertaking where about though we have you know, half a dozen vehicles and four buildings, you know It's precisely because we are small and do not have the capacity for some things That I think it may be very helpful if we were to have the shared staff We don't have the expertise. We don't have the staff capacity We don't have the volunteer capacity The energy committee is strapped right now with that for all The energy committee. Oh just uh, yeah the chair. Nicole is because she volunteered to be the You know, we don't have the volunteer Capacity right So all of the more reason for my perspective To say no, we're small. We don't have the capacity for a full-time position like Hartford did But if a possibility came of sharing In that expertise and planning capacity that would be great. That's why we're part of t rock Right, exactly. And hopefully that comes out down the road So just to be clear for people on zoom in case you aren't being able to hear very well, sorry for that um So the select board on the warning is going to go the vote Australian ballot on the officers. Yes, but the budget. No So if that is a question, it looks like Christy has her hand up. Do you can she that's and that's not for this year and that's not for this year So I should yes, thank you. The vote would go in the war. What happens this year But it won't be until the following year. So this year everything is still hooten-holler And if it passes it would be the following if it doesn't pass and Then it doesn't pass So I just wanted to be clear in case you couldn't hear very well and I apologize for that We're still making sure that works, but christy. I think has her hand up Yeah, great. Thanks. Can you hear me? Okay? Yes. Yeah, great Well, I'm going to say the the the sound quality is fantastic on my end as well. So Oh good. Thank you really I'm digging it and I just I felt really compelled to say out loud because I've heard a few folks say this a couple times pointing out that Oh, well, we offered, you know, we tried something that was recommended and then there was only like three more people That showed up and and I have to really reiterate what gene is saying because it's that important That we need to be really careful about making assumptions. It's really about access It's not about we've we've multiplied the numbers of people showing up I think that comes in time if we're if we're demonstrating ourselves as open and accessible to new ideas and new ways That will come but I would be really I would want to caution us To to use that always as a reason to not try something new And I'm really excited that you were willing to do this zoom equipment and you know go after this and I'm so excited and proud of us of a town for taking this step I think we look look pretty wicked cool and so You know what it will do for access and just having the patience to see that evolve is I just want to say that out loud because Um, I I'm really excited about the energy where we're headed And I don't want us to lose sight of that and get discouraged because only three people are here Yeah, well last time I was here. There were there were a couple more So, you know, I think just keeping that in mind and that frame of reference will really go a long way for it So I appreciate you letting me make the comment. Thank you so much. Thank you christy. That is something to keep in mind I think for us, you know, we always like participation because you know, if there's criticism later We don't work in a vacuum We always try to you know, put the packet out and then of course we were all doing zoom meetings for oh, you know during covet and things but um I appreciate you saying that you know, I hadn't really looked at it that way as it just takes a little while to get out I mean we feel like, you know, we we were doing it of course during covet and then you were luckily enough to go back to in person and and Um, you know for us, it's hard because you know, it's what we do all the time And so we want more, you know, participate see more faces on zoom see more faces in the audience and and But I but I think that's a great point So thank you for saying that and I'm also glad you can hear because orca has done an amazing job Helping do this if it wasn't for them I'd be using sock puppets Oh, they wouldn't be so it's good I know I don't know So we're good with all the warnings. Yeah, good good of that All right As we had talked about last time we were going to put the interlocal agreement discussion Um We had talked about it. So I don't know march So, you know, we are We are partners with the town of broilton at the solid waste facility there. We jointly own these properties and we We have an interlocal agreement for the managing of The activities on that property So some of the issues that we have been encountering there, um for quite some time and Brought to light about a year ago was um More on the financial end of things and the financial responsibilities due to the interlocal agreement and How the town of beth will fit into that and to the point we were owed, you know A significant amount of money that wasn't getting repaid to us because we were kind of doing all the You know, we're kind of doing all the clerical checkbook You know payroll functions Yeah, because it's our tax ID number so we had We had A meeting in march, I'll say. I don't know. Maybe it was February. Maybe it was april, but we had a joint meeting with both boards And uh, you know, we ironed out a few Things on the interlocal agreement that you know for a while had been kind of gray spots in it And this agreement was put together in the 80s was it 70s and um Well, yeah, you purchased so And we've you know over the years we've had Some different issues there with either managing. We've had um I don't know multiple times. We've had some embezzlement issues over the years. We've had um Some clerical issues Uh through past administrations. We've had money come up missing. We've You know a bunch of things so So once a year we're allowed to Well once a year The contract automatically renews And up until that point we have the option to By then exercise our right to pull out of the agreement if we want to so Usually I don't think we've even talked about it for years Because it's just been a thing. It just happens and uh, but the more we've talked about this year with You know some of the short term and long term Issues or focuses down there We want to circle the wagons, uh, you know, november december talk about this how things go. Do we feel comfortable? Staying in it. Do we want to get out now? for the towns citizens If bethle is A joint partner in this operation or not It really doesn't Change any day-to-day operations for any of our citizens to go there and do any of their business Um So it you know if we hear as oh that town has decided we're going to pull out that doesn't mean that we can't bring our Nothing changes there other than down the road, you know, we wouldn't be financially obligated, you know to Make ends meet there when there's issues Um, you know a down flaw obviously would be we wouldn't have a say in the day-to-day operations anymore um But I don't know how much say we really have there So it seems like you know, you know, we have a board and we have members of the board But it doesn't seem like there's really a whole lot of weight weight there anyways, right? And then you have the You probably feel the same way. Yeah, and now you have the new college So, yes, you have to decide whether you have to give notice by january 1st to royalties If you want to terminate the agreement and you're right and still pay the alliance fee But let's be clear about this too. So everybody understands is it was You will always have the liability of the landfill You have the post closure of the landfill will always be backwards. Um, there's well testing There's annual maintenance of that because there's an exclusion on your insurance policies So if you ever had an issue it's an issue and that will always remain an issue for bevel the landfill but if you were to pull out of the Or give notice you want to terminate the contract on the transfer station That's a different kettle of fish and I If it did just a quick question. Did you just pass? Did you pass the budget gen presented you? Okay, so Then we should talk about a couple things to keep in mind as one is gen Has is has put in her letter resignation gen will resign as of march 5th um In the budget that went forward the only I she asked me to help her give her some scenarios with finances She told me the percentage she wanted to give employees. I calculated retirement workers comp, etc For her she used that number. There's no money in there for building maintenance. We know there's an issue Several issues. We we know that for a fact that building needs a couple hundred three hundred grand Worth of work from from an estimate that we received from A waste solid waste facility. I should I should actually amend my statement. We approved the budget We made some amendments to the budget. Okay, um, which do actually include some for building maintenance Just like a couple hundred bucks or A couple million. So basically we upped we upped our revenue instead of leveling it that A million for uh fees. We put it at 1.1 million which gave us another hundred thousand to Move around the budget and we're right now We're on target as as jerry projected if we stayed with the revenue that we've made thus far this year We'd make about 1.4. So we felt it was still fairly conservative to stick with 1.1 Knowing that we you know in the last fiscal year we did 1.1 And then this year we're on target to exceed that And so then we ended up I'm not gonna remember that's okay. A lot of details, but we upped some of the Maintenance for the building and something else I was gonna see if there was two Two things like building maintenance and maybe equipment or your scales No, not scale because I know there's a couple of things that are that are That are big, but I'm glad that you've addressed it to some extent. Yes We you know the number that jen projected. I don't blame her covet It really went up and it's hard to know what that balance is going to be I also did you did you increase the facility manager salary? Oh, that's what we did we and added we went to a living wage for all employees. Um, so we actually upped To the percentage that she recommended. Yeah beyond the three percent. Okay, that was the second one So it was okay maintenance and the living wage option, but we still stuff with the 10 alliance Okay, and so you'll still be looking for a new facility manager and you know It's my guesstimate that if you're looking, you know, if you pull in someone who's been in a solid waste business And they're gonna make a bigger salary, but I will say this again. I have said this since I came To Bethel and I will say it again. You should not be in the trash business or the solid waste business That is my personal opinion. I had to close a landfill in another town and there are people out there Kasella able and there's big companies out there who do trash and we don't and I think that it's difficult because It's real hard to find employees, you know the equipment we know that the building needs maintenance We know the scale needs maintenance. I know that you want to move to Take getting rid of cash and taking automated, you know payments, which I think is a great idea But I think there's no cash software in there and and it's interesting And and it's going to be interesting because your scale has serious issues what your scale is built on one of the Couple of cells or not. There's some big maintenance coming and So I just and it's tough for us. Obviously we're doing the the books because it is Bethel's Tax ID number that runs that facility. So that's why the finances come here I have tried and I'm working and praying that You know comp account would take it over But we've kind of come to a little bit better of an agreement. They they pay we pay them They pay us if they owe us money or we pay them each month if we owe them money So there's a balancing, but it takes A lot of time and I just feel like, you know, there's a lot to it and there's a lot coming down the pike Every legislative session about recycling and then of course the recycling market is one time, you know, steel is great then it's not and and so And we have the opportunity to Give royal tent notice that says, you know, we're not sure but we may or may not want to terminate this contract I think that you should give them notice it buys you a few months, but let's have a conversation about what is working What isn't working? I also think it would be very interesting for someone to do an exit interview with the Solved the current manager. Why is she leaving? We had that we had that discussion and it is going to happen And is it going to be you or Lindley and one person from royal tent? Yeah, we hadn't decided who And and that's interesting, you know, I think that would you know, I know what I hear You know From from people, you know that that go or people that you know work there or work there in the past or and um I just think And when we got together with the town of royal tent, so there was things gonna happen So anybody that's on the don't just think that You know, we've just all of a sudden have come to this realization that we don't need to be in the trash business So back in march, I mean because in march, basically what it was is You know, the oldest money because we were bankroll in the operation Uh, and they weren't so it was a hundred percent on bevel to support the losses Um, and we had made a suggestion about Um, well, I won't say the people putting together A couple of people to explore other ideas of how to manage that facility, which might be Uh, a partnership with a solid waste an approved solid waste, you know, like a like a cell or one of those Or different other hybrid methods and You know, so we were open to the idea of let's see what our options are and Royalton at that point just wanted to manage the facility So we passed on some responsibilities to them. They took on the financial responsibilities. Well No, I mean, I'm sorry. They Sorry, so they they started they did take out a loan for a hundred thousand just like we did and they did And they agreed that they understood the finances more and so or everybody understands the finances more on that board No, they do and and and now yeah, so they say it all the time so that they um, so that yes We pay that what they owe us or vice versa. There's a more fiscally uh Better position for bevel but it it's still You just have one opportunity and we haven't heard anything and i'm not You know, the committees are hard. It's it's only six people, you know to to be these committees and things are happening and Things are being You know, so I just I don't you know, I just think it's difficult We can get the minutes you can read the minutes and see what's going on But I just really wonder if it's not time to really take a hard fast look at So just us giving notice is not a final saying it's basically us giving royalton an opportunity to come back to the table and talk to us Yeah, it's yeah, I don't think at that point It's saying that it's it's giving It's the select board provides notice to the other of its intent to terminate this agreement Not less than 180 days before the end of the then kermit Current term so it's so it's basically saying maybe we want to make some changes And maybe for yeah Or or we're getting out completely Or yeah, or maybe it's to say okay We going to give notice and we want to We want to look at like Randolph has an option, right? They somehow do some at least something to sell a but Yes, lovely. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I I just wanted to vocalize my My take on this so I've been really on the fence about it probably since last march, you know, when we started this conversation I've been going back and forth imagine forth and One of the biggest hang-ups that I have come to every single time is that currently Bethel the Transportation employees are Bethel employees, which means they are accruing retirement through The nurse these are the stairs and if For whatever reason whether it's this approach with terminating the agreement or Something else if Royalton takes over Existing employees lose their retirement approval well, and so so I That like for me has has been a hang-up and I think it's becoming less of a hang-up because now we're down to a single Say only down to like one, right? So this is where like it's shifted for me personally I'm not even a hundred percent clear on which way I would go but it shifted significantly And I feel like it's worth saying because I think we all At a time back in March, April when we were having these discussions We all kind of kept coming to the same conclusion of like oh gosh We can't do that to our employees who that's their retirement. We can't mess with them in that way And yet I think where you were going was there is a work around there is a mechanism Because you're right if they became Royalton employees You can there's a buy-in and I think whether in this person If you have if you have an employee that's fully vested which you do and and me I don't know if they're of retirement age or not But there is a way there's a buy-in for them to go to Vembers which is actually a good depending on the plan that Royalton has Um, it could really you know buy you in I had that option when I came here We'll just use myself as an example. I had Done time. That's not right. It's done time. I had participated in let me rephrase that It was in Vembers and so when I came went to come to visors. I talked to the lady at retirement. She's like, okay Her advice was Stay Keep Vembers and Vembers and then become fully vested but I did have an option to buy in And I think that this person would have the same and it may buy them up depending what plan they're in Because if say they were like Vembers plan c and it's 20 years. It really may buy this person further So You're right There is a mechanism and now you're right. You're down to one employee that's been there consistently So it changes the plan field in a way and yeah, but I don't think it should be Forgotten in our discussions. No, it was an original sort of we all kind of came around to like, oh, well, that's an issue And it also could be a conversation Yeah, if the if you are going to negotiate either yourself out It would be something you could say it's like, hey, look this person If to see if you have the same retirement to see if you have the same health insurance I mean, there's there would be a way through your negotiations to make sure that maybe you're this employee Maybe didn't lose and um if you want to try but I think out of all the You know out of all the time I've been on the board. It seems like Right now is probably the most appropriate Opportunity for us to make the change it seemed because and that the only reason why I say that is we have You know through some short term issues, which was the debt that was open to Bethel that has been paid, you know, we're whole You know now there's some short term things with management of the facility and turnover of employees and things like that So there's certainly there and in the long term picture is that facility was managed just like this town With no foresight. So there's there's building maintenance or scales. There's a there's a very large Coming here in the next five or ten years that needs to go into that And it's going to come down where you're not going to be able to put it all along the consumer It's going to have to come to the towns And you know, we're already looking at water projects and you know, and uh You know, I've always thought that we shouldn't be in the trash prison It's carried and and highlighted by the fact that we were owed so much money You know made it just ridiculous But and we got together with them. We had a meeting the financial side is turned around So that we're whole now But I we haven't had any follow-up meetings and it seems I only you know, I don't I don't I'd want to talk to Dave and Linley to get first hand knowledge But what I hear is that things are not necessarily heading in the direction that we had thought about When we had the joint meetings So I think we need to get an update on all of that But I still think that we should not be in the trash business And I I think just to sort of answer your question Paul and Dave can certainly have a differing opinion, but I think we we The the newer board has sort of worked towards a similar End goal, but to me at least it still feels like Beth was going this way and Wilton's going this way and we're on somewhat different tracks and not necessarily always You know, we're a functional board. It's not the same that it's not functional But it it doesn't necessarily feel like we're driving for the same things or we're driving in the same direction So we can come to conclusions together and we can you know Have our meetings go, but it's it's just a really different feel than like this where we we are all very much Working in a similar direction and we all are coming in with we want what's best for the town So I don't know if you have a similar except the only problem I have is that we get to a meeting and the chair and Clark have already decided a whole bunch of stuff and we just have to kind of vote on it and it's like Wait a minute I'm the vice chair and I had no idea what you guys are talking about I mean even our our lack of budget discussion. I played chris at our last meeting and went Through lines that I wanted to understand why they were different or why and and everyone else seemed like why are you wasting our times? This is the entire We should spend at least an entire meeting on it. It's not just 30 seconds and approve it and the fact that I was asking for Explicit information line by line seemed like well, why are you doing that? Yeah, that's what we are here to do and it was interesting because We and I had talked to Jen and And she'd seen the agenda the budget wasn't on it and the iteration She was like I'm like look it was due in october and everybody knew it was a hard pass because you were down people But i'm like You have to get this done before the new year this has and there's towns that are on calendar years that are in your Lines district and need to go to town report. So and and she was a little bit Said you know about the communication between you know some things I mean it seemed like in march I was hopeful of a change and feel free to speak, you know freely if Saying something inappropriate, but it sounds like we were all kind of thinking the same thing in march without Having a straw pool. It seemed like we were all kind of like we need to get out of this like You know If only we could get paid whole or there was a couple of niche things. Yeah seemed like we were I mean do we still seem to feel the same? Same way about this or Because we can it's a letter that would go to them and go to jared is basically saying we want to terminate This agreement and then it gives us some time to say, okay You know and we want completely out and end to look at it because you know I don't this isn't a moneymaker if they have a building and equipment I don't see you getting paid out when you know, there's some deficits there. You may just walk around walk out of it Just now whole and that may be it.  It may be just like And there's a ways to negotiate on the way out. Yeah, exactly. But I'm just saying retirees and I would be really curious to hear Maybe you know submit this intent to terminate to hear their side because I could really see them going In two different directions one coming back to the table and wanting to renegotiate the contract I'm wanting to stay in this with us and then we have to take a hard look at what we want But I could also see them saying, okay, we'll take it. I think that's you know, and I think so too Maybe it's a win. Maybe they get what they want and we get what we want so budget-wise. Let's if it was still on the heart for the For the land. That's the landfill, which is We would always that doesn't matter. That has that's a good other exactly Which that's pretty much taken care of So other than there's some small amount of years down the road. I mean, yes We would have to start budgeting for in the general fund budget We would put a line in here for closure fees of a few thousand a year that would take care of because you have Yes, there's testing. We figure it was like I think so If testing is property maintenance rather than managing a facility It's not it's it's it's yeah, it's your it's your state legally obligated closure fee closure So you would maintain, you know, there's a there's a money out there Or there I guess that's for the closure of the transfer station But there's you'd have to do there'd have to be a legal agreement about your obligations And not for sure, but yes, we would have to start budgeting money In our budget for a few thousand that Because because we're owners of the property, right and we always will be for the landfill It's not in this iteration of the budget, but it could be a capital improvement And we'd have to figure that out how we deal with it. So what would happen to the revenue piece? Because right now it would go the budget that's proved, you know, so that Just throwing that out there if we did that That's about one percent worth of money that's sitting In our budget. Yeah. Yes, but what would happen is I mean it Because that's that's revenue that we wouldn't collect which means like if we were just talking about approving a two percent budget If if we voted out That revenue didn't come in then that would be like a three Three percent budget, you know, I mean right however, it's going to happen too. Yeah, but I will say Right that would be before the year Their calendar right and we're no their fiscal. Oh, are they physical? What was I think in their calendar year? Yeah, they're fiscal here, but however, let me just say this so they would start june They start to lie. So this would it would affect the budget that we're currently discussing. Yes, right? The one we're discussing. Yes, right. It'd be the one we're discussing and Right, right. Yes. Yes. The one we're discussing that we are Hoping to approve next and I think it's a little bit of a misnomer to say we would lose lose this revenue I doubled I took a higher percentage of my salary D tree salary and PAM salary to That I allocate to the to the transfer station because we've been getting Persons we've been at holds. We've been paying. I've been using way too much time in the facility. So Yes, we wouldn't be recouping a small portion like one percent or three percent or five whatever I'd use I don't have in front of me of the salary, but That is a huge time saver. So it now frees up and Kelly and well PAM does their bills So now she's no longer processing their AP. So that gives her a little more time to do, you know Clark stuff treasure stuff and it frees me up because is a can be a huge time suck I'm not I don't think the number I put in this time and I doubled it covers the time that I put in down there So it frees staff up to do other things Which is actually helps us grow in the sense that you know, maybe someone has time to do more More zoning or there's more grant writing or there's more planning or you know It just all of a sudden I'd be like we as a staff Yes, can accomplish more because I think you'll be able to accomplish more but you still have to Yeah You still have to deal with it in the budget because you're not gonna Absolutely, you're not gonna that revenue is not gonna come in Yeah, you know, are we are we in a position to have a motion tonight or do we want to Well, the the difficulty we have is If this is just a notice, right It doesn't have to be done through a lawyer, does it? No, it just I we have I know it tells you exactly how to do it right here It says that if it doesn't have to go through a lawyer. No, it just says that we Um, so basically, um Any such notice shall be deemed given when deposited in the mail properly addressed and with prepaid post To postage prepaid to the town of Bethel or the town of Royalton and it just says If this contract is terminated the select boards shall prepare and adopt Prior to the end of the then current term a plan of disillusion Which shall specify the means by which assets of the facility shall be liquidated And specify the nature and any amount of any liabilities or obligations to be assumed And paid by each town or or specify the amount of monies due from