Thank you all for joining us for this international perspectives, the diverse journeys of women in STEM. I'd like to begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land on which I'm meeting you from today here in Canberra. I'm speaking to you from Ngunnawal country and I pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging. So my name is Julianne Guevara and I'm Australia's Ambassador for Gender Equality and I'm your moderator for today's exciting discussion. We hope that this session today sparks your interest and curiosity and encourages women from across our region to consider studying STEM degrees and pursuing a STEM career. So today, of course, you'll hear from three women who have very diverse and exciting careers. We have an astrophysicist, a cyber expert, and an expert in bananas. In fact, I think I've seen on YouTube her being referred to as banana mama. So firstly, I'd like to introduce you to Professor Lisa Harvey Smith. Lisa is Australia's Ambassador for Women in STEM. She will tell us about her role and why it exists and a little bit about her career. After that, she will join a panel, along with Tagalima Nimea, who's a cyber expert from Samoa and Dr Feeney Devani, who is a geneticist and a molecular biologist from Indonesia. So the panel will discuss their careers and also the impacts of their work. As audience members, of course, you're welcome to ask questions. Please post them in the Zoom chat. And if there's time at the end, some of these questions will try and select and be directed to the panel. So without further ado, I'd now like to pass to Lisa Harvey Smith, our wonderful Ambassador for Women in STEM. Lisa, I'll let you introduce yourself and your role and tell us a little bit about what you do. Yes. Thank you so much, Julianne. And good afternoon, everyone, or maybe good morning from wherever you're joining us in the world. It's great to have this dialogue about STEM careers and a very exciting world of technology and science. I'm speaking to you from Mua Nina country in southern Australia and Australia's women in STEM ambassador. My role is to work with the government, with the business sector, and with education sector as well to make STEM education and careers more accessible and safer for women. Before I was appointed into this role, I was a full-time astrophysicist for almost 20 years working in the UK, from Germany, the Netherlands, and then finally to Australia. So it's been a really exciting journey. Nowadays, I'm actually also an author of children's books and a couple of adults books too on astrophysics. So my career has kind of taken a bit of a path and I've written more than 50 scientific papers as well in my research which focuses on the birth and death of stars so how they're born and die in our galaxy. I've studied magnetic fields in space and how they shape amazing clouds of glowing gas in our galaxy. And I've studied distant galaxies and supermassive black holes. And it's really great to use the physics and mathematical skills that I learned in my university degrees to actually look at the universe and try to understand more about its history. And I've spent years on very exciting international projects, including the development of the Square Kilometer Array, or SKA, which is a huge radio telescope, which is currently being built in Australia and South Africa, and many countries around the world have come together to create this very exciting project. So when it's built, when it's finished, it will be the most powerful radio telescope in the world, and we'll look at millions of years of the history of our universe in radio waves, so invisible waves that are coming to us from distant stars and galaxies. And this project is wonderful because it just typifies the international collaboration that makes science so special and allows people from different nations to come together in study and in, I guess, the practice of science as well. Outside of science, I sit on the advisory board for the Australian Space Agency, which is quite a new agency, only about three years old, but our space industry is booming, which is very exciting and it's great to be on that advisory committee. And I'm also on the Questacon Advisory Committee, that's for our National Scientific Wonderful Science Centre, that it's hosting this event today. I've written five popular science books, books for children as well, and that's a really wonderful part of my career journey that I enjoy very much. But since I was appointed as Australia's Women in STEM Ambassador, I focused on creating Australia's STEM stars of the future. So my team and I work closely with the Australian government to build the visibility of women in STEM and to create positive changes in our society. We do it because it's the right thing to do, but it's also sensible economically. Advanced mathematical and physical sciences are worth $145 billion a year to our economy. And according to a report from a few years ago of the economy and the contributions of different parts of it, if 1% of Australian women moved into the STEM workforce, it would add $57 billion to our economy over the next 20 years. So this is why governments are very, very keen to get more women and girls working in STEM. Of course, it's important for other reasons. Women need to have access to well paying jobs for women's economic security, as well as taking their rightful place in designing the technology that really defines our culture and our society today. And technologies are coming into every area of work, so that this is really an important thing that young people see in race. And a career like many places in the world has a serious shortage of women working in STEM jobs, and it's particularly bad in engineering and computing. So, we're really keen to increase the participation of women in the STEM workforce. To tackle this problem, we got together a couple of years ago armed with some government money to bring together people from all across the STEM sector to create a 10-year plan for women in STEM. And that was a really great project because it helped us understand reasons why people aren't necessarily going into STEM careers and to have a plan to achieve greater participation. So we've also got a STEM women database, which was launched just over a year ago, I think, and has thousands of women signed up. And these are women who work in STEM and they're willing to go into schools to talk to young people about STEM careers, and also people who may wish to join boards or committees in large companies. So it's really giving women opportunities to speak to the media, to speak to schools, and to get greater visibility of women working in these areas. We've got a wonderful Girls in STEM toolkit, which is a website for young people in secondary education, so in high school, who can go to this place and really see some exciting role models, some exciting resources, and also great resources for teachers who can make their workplaces, their schools more gender equitable. So showing kids role models that aren't just people like Einstein, the traditional scientists that maybe we learned about those of us who are a bit older. I'm sure that there are thousands and thousands of women making discoveries, as they always were, and as they always will be in the future, women doing great work in science and making those women more visible is what we try to do. The Office Runs Future You campaign, which shows kids in primary school, really exciting STEM careers using non-traditional role models in the fun animated characters. So we launched the campaign last year, and it's been seen by more than three million young Australians. And we've measured a threefold increase in positive attitudes to STEM education amongst girls who've seen the campaign. And slightly smaller, but all the equally important increases in boys assessments of how exciting and important STEM is in the world. So that's really great that we're able to create role models for young people and try and drive young people to see more options for themselves in STEM. We've also got initiatives to improve workplaces. So the government has funded the SAGE initiative. And the SAGE initiative is it guides universities and research organisations to just sort of on a journey to remove the barriers to women's participation in the workforce and women's leadership as well. So that universities and research places will have more women in leadership and better workplaces. For example, things like equal parental leave in workplaces so that men can take more responsibility for looking after children. So we're trying to really dismantle some of the structural barriers that women face in education and careers. I've delivered more than workshops to more than 11,000 teachers to help schools do better and avoid gender stereotypes in their classrooms. And we're trying to raise awareness of the benefits of STEM jobs amongst teachers as well. So we're changing the way that research funding is assessed. So when people submit applications for research funding, we're removing the names of the applicants so that they can be assessed on their merits and not on maybe some stereotypes or assumptions about the applicants. So we're doing a lot of different work. It's important because by building a system where all talents are recognised, we create an inclusive STEM culture that delivers great innovation, new ideas, and science and technology that benefits everyone in society. So it's our common aim as nations around the world to work together to this to this end. And it's great to see colleagues from different nations today who are going to share their studies with everyone. I really love this discussion. So thank you once again for having me in this discussion. And I look forward to our panel session. Thank you very much. Thanks so much Lisa for that really insightful introduction. I mean, I think it's great to hear, of course, the work that you're doing as Australia's ambassador for STEM, the importance obviously of engaging with young women and girls at an early age about the possibilities and the variety of work that you can do in various STEM fields I think is really fantastic. And I'm really pleased too that you obviously highlighted, you know, the significant opportunities that you have for international cooperation and I think, you know, that will be a little bit on display here today of course with the other So it is now my great privilege to officially welcome our other panelists who are joining us from across the Asia Pacific region. Firstly, I'll turn to Tagalima Namia, who is the principal PC and network officer for the Samoan Ministry of Finance, a position that she's held for after several successful careers in both the Samoan private and public sectors. She completed her master's degree at RMIT. She's the first Samoan woman based in country to be a cyber security expert. Tagalima believes in leading by example, and she will use her IT skills and experience of working within male dominated environments to inspire Samoan women to become IT literate. She would like to be bold enough to follow their chosen career paths. She would like to set up information centers and online platforms that empower Samoan women to access new career opportunities skills enrichment programs. So thank you so much for joining us today Tagalima. I have the privilege of introducing Dr Finney Devani. Dr Devani has earned her PhD in biology from the University of Melbourne in 2004. She is an associate professor at the School of Life Science and Technology at Bangdong Institute of Technology in Indonesia. She is a specially appointed associate professor at the Department of Advanced Science and Biotechnology at the Graduate School of Engineering at Osaka University in Japan. Her research group, the genetics and molecular biotechnology research group is affectionately known as the banana group. The goal is to improve Indonesia's fruit quality through pre and post harvest technologies. The group has also been involved in space biology research since 2007. And in 2011 the team successfully sent Indonesian tomato seeds to the International Space Station as the first Indonesian space biology experiment. So thank you to both Tagalima and Dr Finney for joining us today from your respective countries. I would now like to begin asking you a few questions if I could. Maybe first turning to Dr Finney and then Tagalima and then to Lisa. I was hoping that you might share experiences of when did you fall in love with STEM and when did you decide that STEM was for you. Dr Finney if I could turn to you first please. Thank you very much Julianne and also thank you for the organizer to invite me to this prestigious event and it's very happy to have you here. I was falling in love with STEM since I was very young at elementary school. I was chosen as a Dr Pechil in Indonesian or a little doctor at my school to take care of my friends at school. Then I when I was sixth grade when I saw a TV news about one of Indonesian woman scientists, Professor Prathini Sudharmono, she is the first Indonesian astronaut. And then I had a dream to become an Indonesian astronaut too. But unfortunately until now my dream to become an astronaut is not come true. However, in 2007, there is an opportunity to learn space biology in JAXA, Japan Space Agency. And in 2011, then I became one of the space seed for ASEAN future team member together with scientists from across the Asia Pacific country and sent in Asia tomato seeds to space. So in parallel, we also developed this experiment to study the effect of microgravity in banana ripening. Despite I couldn't reach my dream, I'm glad that we have sent an Indonesian tomato to become an astronaut. Okay, thank you, Julie, and that's when I fall in love with STEM. Super. Thank you so much, Dr Pechil. Dr Pechil, can I turn to you? What made you fall in love? Thank you, Julie Ann. So I first became interested in science when I was in year eight. I had this amazing science teacher and she was more a role model to me. It got me interested that I would work so hard to try and get full marks for any assignments in science. And that was when, and so science became my favorite subject. And because of my teacher's encouragement and support during high school, I always thought of becoming a doctor. But it wasn't until later that I was at a time to try to decide on what to do as a to undertake as a bachelor's degree.  And so this was something that, you know, kind of made me thought and change my path. And so instead of undertaking a doctor's degree, which will take about six or more years. I decided to pursue a degree in computing science for three years. And that was, that's how it led me to a career path in IT career. Great. It's amazing. Yes, those stories about how influential teachers can be. And it goes to the point I suppose that Lisa was making earlier about the importance of teachers, you know, creating that that mindset that there are opportunities for you. Yeah, I mean, there's so many moments aren't there in life when you get some inspiration, but the ones I remember really when I was about 11 or 12. And I lived in quite a rural area so away from a lot of city lights and my dad and I went into the garden to look at the stars one night. And he had read an article in the newspaper saying that you could see the planet Mars. So we went outside and had a look and he didn't know where to look and I didn't know where to look and we were kind of staring up at the stars. And I remember it saying it was very orange color very distinctive bright orange and we found it. And after that I was just amazed by this, you know, experience. And, you know, we got a really old 1950s star Atlas like a book paper book of the skies, and I learned how to identify the different groups of stars or constellations. And, yeah, I never looked back I just became obsessed with astrophysics. I wanted to become an astrophysicist I didn't even know what that was or how you could do it. But, yeah, after reading a million books and, and then deciding to go for it. Obviously went to university and studied for seven years to actually get my PhD and become a researcher, but it was just a fill in love really as a child and that was a great moment. So it's really important for parents I think as well as, you know, the great things teachers do but all parents have the, the capabilities by their children even if they don't really know much about science because my dad didn't. Beating curiosity I think that's a really good point to add to the conversation. Tagalima, could I ask you, how did studying in Australia contribute to your career because I think yes as I mentioned in your bio you studied in Australia. What doors did studying in Australia open for you when you returned home to Samoa. Well, cybersecurity was not a degree that was offered locally but having the chance to study abroad and coming back, gave me, like, gave me confidence and you know I had the ability to apply for a job that I've always wanted. And since I've returned I've had opportunities to work in partnership with a network that you know through some network I was able to work in partnership with the girl kick Academy in Australia. So, to launch a girl kick Academy in Samoa so we were, we wanted we were focusing on teaching girls at the age of six to 12 on just the basics of coding. What we were trying to do is for girls because you know in the Pacific you don't get much opportunities like as in Australia where they have a lot of you know camps and coding, you know, technology related opportunities, but we wanted to give the girl something new. And hopefully that they could develop it as a new hobby, be able to have the ability to create their own app or game. And with the goal that they will be interested enough to start a career path in technology, or, or stem. And in addition, I am currently working with some women in leadership initiative. I'm an alumni in partnership with women in business. And we, we, so we do workshops for someone families around the island in different communities, and my contribution to this. So I've been educating parents and children on some cyber security issues and how they can surf the internet, you know, safely surf the internet. It's a very important issue you raise and in fact here in Australia to we have an in safety commissioner. Julie imminent grant who is focused on those very important issues around cyber security for not only, you know, for businesses but also for families, you know young women and girls who are obviously accessing the online environment and of course we're doing more so than ever now during this quarantine period. So, really interesting to to hear your story about the importance of networks. As you build out your, your careers in in science and technology. It's really important obviously to have those sorts of networks and, you know, ordinarily I think you know for a lot of our male colleagues they have those networks they they build them they encourage growth in them but it's lovely to hear that you're, you know, building your own networks in stem in Samoa. Dr Fanny if I could now turn to you about your experiences and how studying in Australia contributed to your career. And what doors did it open for you when you returned to Indonesia. Thanks. I went to the University of Melbourne to conduct my study. Since this university is one of the best university and well known globally and graduated in 2004. During my PhD, I was focusing my study on molecular biology field using barley as a plant model, mainly new approach, as well as some cutting and technologies in molecular biology I learned. One of the most important things was experience to conduct a research as a big team member. I was lucky during my PhD, I have opportunity to join one of the best cell wall group in the world and I learned how to conduct research in Bali with multidisciplinary team. The experiences give me opportunity to develop not only my skill and knowledge in life science field but also opportunity to develop my confidence and to learn how to manage a big research group. Back to Indonesia, I start my research with only three students and a little amount of funding as well as limited infrastructure to be able to run a molecular biology and then genetic engineering research. I was one of the first generation of molecular biologists at genetic and molecular biology expert group at my university at Institute of Technology Nando Indonesia. I was lucky that my institution and my senior colleagues were very supportive at my early career period so I was able to do my research with my students. Fortunately, many opportunities come at the first five years of my career as faculty member and my research project to continue until now. In 2004, I obtained funding from one of the Indonesia biggest companies in the world for my proposed research to develop banana post-harvest technology. Then followed by several research awards from the Royal University of Women in Science as well as from the Salam Brzee Foundation and the Australia Industrial Research Award to continue my research at the University of Melbourne and Queensland University in Brisbane as a postdoctoral fellow and visiting scientist. I started with only three students and now around 100 students and postdoctoral fellow have been joined to our research group, the Banana Group. Of course, I'm very lucky that my former PhD and postdoctoral supervisor in Australia, Professor Tony Besig and Dr Ed New Begin always support my career until now and I would like to thank them for very continued support and today I'm very happy that Tony Besig also here with us. Hello, Penny. Thank you so much for coming. Okay, thank you, Julianne. Thank you, Dr Feeney. And it's great, yes, that we have people joining us from around the region who are interested in hearing, you know, these these personal stories. And it's amazing the work that you have done obviously to grow the network of molecular biologists in Indonesia through your work and your passion so that that's fantastic to see. Can I please encourage people to continue. I've seen questions popping up in the chat. As I said, we will hopefully get some time to allow to post those questions to the panelists so keep those questions coming in that's absolutely fantastic. Now I wanted to ask all the panelists and I might again start with Tagalima and then Dr Feeney and then Lisa. How can we build collaborative STEM networks so I mentioned this in the case of Tagalima's response to make STEM a place where everyone can thrive across countries and regions. You know what opportunities are there for collaboration, including to address I suppose those gender inequalities that I think you know Lisa in particular has touched on. So maybe if I could start with Tagalima because you mentioned STEM networks and then I'll turn to Lisa and then Dr Feeney Tagalima. Thank you, Julian. Um, this is a hard one. To be honest, I've been thinking a lot about it and I don't really have a clear answer. But because I know it's a bit difficult in the region because we're diverse and and I know for some we tend to have some, I mean networking is out of a comfort zone. And it was I was like that. And for me, I actually give credit to my Australian Award, Australian Award experience, because this was where I was able to have the opportunity to build network, not only with people in Australia but with some other Pacific Island scholars.  And I, I know it's a bit difficult but you know this is a challenge within the region and I'm very interested to be part of the solution. But another thing that I felt was helpful in my networking experience was having a mentor. Because having a mentor is someone that you know you share the same similar interest and you can ask for support or guidance and also, you know, throw some ideas around and you know for me this was what really helped me to get to where I am today.  And so, I turned to my mentor and she was really helpful as for opportunities for collaboration and addressing gender inequality. I would say early introduction of technology in early learning and primary education curriculums. I'm not sure about other Pacific Islands, but for some more. The computer is mostly introduced in your year 12. And, but I think if we bring stem in at an early, early age and normalize it, it will definitely address some gender inequality, you know, having both boys and girls learn the same thing from a young age.  And this, I guess this was part of why I wanted to to teach coding to young girls at the age of 6 to 12 because you know I wanted them to to be encouraged and you know there is something for them in technology and you know they there's so much that they could do with technology and I just wanted to encourage them to have an interest take some interest in in a technology career path. And I believe that children taught at an early age have better chance of, you know, success and better chance of developing their abilities and their capabilities. Thank you so much Tagalina and I see people high fiving you for you know the work that you've done in terms of yeah like having the confidence to create those networks so good on you. Lisa can I turn to you please about your experiences with you know establishing networks, you know what what tools did you use, you know what opportunities are there to try and break some of the down some of those gender inequalities. Yeah, really, it's really interesting I think earlier on in my career I probably relied more on official networks, so the research group and my supervisor and the colleagues around me, and also maybe my professional society for my, you know branch of science so in my case the astronomical professional societies. But there's quite a limit to what they can achieve. You know, you can achieve great things when you get together in your professional society. We had a women in astronomy chapter in our professional society, and I led that for for some time and we developed together. Really great policies that have been taken up by many universities and research organizations around Australia. And that work has really improved workplaces, which is great a great example. But then, as I've gone through my career I think I've developed more informal networks now with groups of people who are working towards the same goals. Whether they be in gender equality, or whether they be in STEM, or even in science communication. So lots of really great groups that I'm a member of where people discuss what's going on. And some really informal where you know I'm in some WhatsApp groups of women in STEM who share information and support each other and ask for help when they need when they need it. So I would really encourage maybe people earlier in their careers to to reach out to their peers and their colleagues and people that they perhaps admire maybe a bit more than you to get advice and and not just mentoring but that sponsorship which really means someone actively working to advance your career. And I think all of those things are really valuable. Yeah, thank you Lisa I mean that point you make about sort of that multi disciplinary kind of approach to networks is quite interesting and so I think Dr Finney you mentioned this as well so I might turn to you and just ask you about your experience with networks. Okay, thank you. Yes, our banana group consists of men and women expect from many fields, and each member has equal right to become a project leader, as well as each team member has right to be treated equally as part of my experience. Let's start with more non disciplinary research, which was focused on molecular biology approach, then our team become multi disciplinary stem stem. We are using bananas model, bananas model research using different perspective from genetics molecular biology, nanotechnology, remote sensing IOT art and design so on so our team is become bigger and bigger and we have many collaboration with both government and private institution in Indonesia and other countries, and to do banana research. In 2017, we then launched research foundation in a big research foundation for Indonesia biography and baby city, and also international research center for banana as well as a banana smart village. In addition, in 2019, I have also pointed as head of genetics and molecular biology expert group at ITV, and also become ITV academic senate as representative of our faculty. As you know that our task is to create university and academic policy that applies to the university. So, also, I get to say that our faculty and university also lead by women. In 2017, I was also chosen as a member of Indonesia Young Academy of Science or this young academic science process of both men and women in Indonesia young scientists under 45 years old. As a member, we have so many opportunities to within our collaboration, both nationally and globally, including with Indonesian Academy of Science and Australia Academy of Science members. In 2016, we have the first Australia Indonesia science symposium in Canberra, and I become one of the seven compares for this prestigious symposium. So, yes, in my experience, as well as we are experts in STEM field, both men and women have equal opportunities in their career, I think. Thank you, Julie. I have one last question to ask you all and then we will go to questions obviously from the audience. My last question I'll start with Lisa. What's the most exciting thing you've done in your career so far? Oh, that's so hard. I'm going to cheat and say lots of things. Okay. In science, I weighed a supermassive black hole in a distant galaxy using only the laws of physics.  Using the shift in the light towards the red or the blue color and spectrum managed to use some physical equations to figure out how much the black hole weighed. That was really, really cool. Professionally, though, working with hundreds, hundreds and hundreds of engineers, you know, experts in different fields, and scientists as a design and watch emerge the SKA telescope and that I talked about earlier and the Pathfinder telescopes in Australia. Incredible and to get the first images from that telescope working in it for close to a decade. That's really special. And of course, the other things I do in my career that I didn't even expect to do, like hosting a TV show about stars and stargazing, writing books. I've toured Australia in theaters with Buzz Aldrin, Second Mantle Step on the Moon and other Apollo astronauts. So just meeting incredible people, sharing science with the world, doing scary nerve wracking things as well as the hard work of research. It's been a really fun journey. Great. Thanks, Lisa. Tagalima, can I ask you the same question, but I've also got a question just to throw in from the audience because we're, I'm just conscious that, yeah, we're, you know, running out of time and I do want to give the opportunity for people and from the audience. So in addition to what you've done, that's super exciting. Can you also talk a little bit about what keeps you motivated to stay abreast of knowledge in your field. So how do you how do you keep up to date basically with with developments, you know, in your cybersecurity sector. So thank you Julian for the question. Well, I'll first answer the exciting part. Maybe it won't be very exciting for most but for me it's exciting to be actually to be actually, you know, to actually work with my colleagues in my organization on and sharing my knowledge on ways we can try and to ensure that our IT, IT network or infrastructure is less vulnerable to cyber attacks. So yeah, as you know, like cyber attacks is frequent now, and it's all around the world. And, you know, it's something that and to link it to the question.  I would say the way most I'm just talking from experience and my from with my colleagues, we join forums and, you know, you do a lot of research it's more like with technology you just have to research.  I think it's all about researching joint forums that, you know, that have a lot of people that share the same interest with you. So, yeah. Sorry, I'm on mute. Thank you so much for that. Dr. Feeney, can I ask you what's the most exciting opportunities you've had so far. Thank you Julian. So together with our group, the banana group, with local villagers in Indonesia and local government, we have done a village in Bali into last banana smart village. And then awarded by Indonesian Ministry of Environment and Firstly, as the best sustainable village in 2020. So I think this is one of our happy and exciting experiences since our works can be applied and useful to help and boost local economy. So, Julian, if you don't mind, I'd like to save two minutes video clip about the banana smart village activities to the audience. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you so much Dr. Feeney. Even I'm super excited about bananas now after seeing that. I have to come to Bali if the pandemic's over. I would love to. I would love to. And I'm sure everyone who's watching today would love to as well. Let's turn to some of the questions from the from the audience. Lisa, if I could direct this one to you please. There's a question from the audience about what are some great resources for highlighting the economic and business reasons to increase women's participation in STEM careers. And in your opening remarks, I think for those of us who are struggling to gain traction just using moral or ethical arguments for it. Do you have some suggestions? Yeah, I mean, there are there are tremendous number of organizations who have released reports on STEM and workforce. So I would, if you know for those things, certainly in Australia. There are links on our website women in stem.org.au. So that one is quite handy for, you know, a lot of information. The women in stem decadal plan as well the 10 year plan that's available on on the web and that's, again, got a lot of the research and links behind, you know, the justification for increasing participation in stem. There's lots of various workforce reports from from Australia, but I'm sure overseas in in in pretty much every nation people are working on this issue. So I would I would certainly encourage people to take a look at the women in stem ambassador website. And, you know, that there will be I'm sure a lot of a lot of books about, you know, workforce needs and, you know, a bit lighter reading, but certainly a lot of those sort of in depth reports available on the web to Thanks Lisa. There's a couple of questions coming through about, you know, how people get involved in learning about stem at different age groups. There's a question about resources available for adult learning. Also for younger people. Dr Fanny I know you do a lot in terms of education about your areas of research. Can you talk a little bit about how you engage what's the best way for people, whether they're at those older ages who might have a curiosity about stem or all the younger people that you've engaged with. Thank you Julian. So thank you for the question. Actually, yeah, I have an experience to build and also collaborate with other scientists in Indonesia and all around the world. This is from Indonesia we call it diaspora to make a forum, scientists forum. And I think it's the best way to encourage young generation and also other people from other field from stem is to promote through the forum. And the forum is made by scientists from a multidisciplinary field. So we usually conduct the workshop and also we also always conduct the I also say to Julie in the in the previous we also conduct as beside the workshop we also conduct like the science competition for the young generation so I think it's the good thing to promote and especially in Indonesia promote the stem for young generation. I think that's, yeah, that's my experience, June. Great. I have a question from the audience and Tagalima if it's okay I might direct this to you. There's a question from someone in the audience who said what is the most important point in your life that helped give you that extra push to follow your dreams. Okay, I guess for me, growing up in a family of 11 children.   So, you know, I was trying to follow my mom's footsteps to keep, you know, studying and you know, be educated and stuff. But so, I guess for me, the important, I think it was not an important point in life, but it's the important people in my life that actually pushed me and you know that was the extra push for me because my mom was the role model. My dad was the force behind us because he would be standing there like if you know if you don't do your homework like you know you get some.  And so we just follow that in all steps or it for me it's the important people in my life that you know it wasn't a point in life it was just the supportive, the people my network, my supportive people around me. So yeah. Thank you, and it's great. Yeah, I think that's been a concurrent sort of theme throughout all of these is the importance of role models.  I think we're coming close to conclusion. I did want to thank all of our panelists today. To Lisa to Tagalima and to Dr Feeney for your contributions thank you so much for the very unique perspectives that you shared from each of your countries. I know there were questions about where people could access today's recording and certainly I think what we will try and do is make sure the recording is put on the Twitter accounts, so the ambassador for general quality Twitter account. I'm sure Lisa would be happy to have it on hers as well. I did also want to thank the Australian government agencies that were involved in today in organizing today's discussions. Thanks to Questacon here in Australia for hosting this online event. If you are interested in further information to about opportunities to study in Australia, then there is additional information as well that's available on the DFAT website. I'm hoping that today's discussion really has been one that stimulates. Some of the discussions about the role of STEM in girls education. It may stimulate you thinking about how you might want to do a career changing to STEM yourself. I just would encourage you also to continue to discuss this with your networks. I mean obviously again the importance of networks has really come through in each of the panelists interventions today. I want to thank again the panelists for the fantastic work that they are doing to make all of our lives better. And to thank you in whatever part of the world you're watching this from for participating in today's discussion it's been really fantastic. Thank you everybody.


For enhance, your talents are going to look a little bit more like this, you're going to be running 5 out of 5 ancestral knowledge, since you'll be running 2 one handers. There is the option to switch to a shield, but we aren't running shield mastery, so it won't be as valuable, which is why we're taking ancestral knowledge instead. Thundering strikes for the extra crit chance, 2 out of 2 improved ghost wolf, 3 out of 3 improved lightning shield for that thorns damage, and then we're going to be getting 1 out of 5 in Flurry. For the runes, we're going to be running dual wield specialization for that free hit on both spells and melee. Won't be getting storms right yet sadly, so we won't be able to take a value from that, but the free hit is super valuable at this level because of the lack of hit on gear. For the leg rune, we're going to be running Shamrage to maintain our mana, and have a defensive cooldown to try to be a little bit tankier. And then on the hand rune, you can either run lava lash for more melee damage, lava burst for some ranged damage, or you can run water shield if you would like some more mana.


Carbon has long been used as an electrochemical sensor due to its unique electrochemical properties. Recent advancements in material design and synthesis, particularly nanomaterials, have resulted in robust electrochemical sensing systems with superior analytical performance. Carbon nanotubes, CNTs, are one of the most widely studied nanostructures due to their unique properties. In terms of electroanalysis, carbon nanotubes can enhance the electrochemical reactivity of important biomolecules and facilitate electron transfer reactions of proteins. The high sensitivity of CNTs to changes in surface conductivity due to the presence of its orbits makes them ideal for use as highly sensitive nanoscale sensors. Additionally, CNT-modified electrodes have shown their usefulness as anchors for biomolecules like nucleic acids, which helps reduce surface fouling effects. As a result, CNTs are highly sought after by researchers for use in electrochemical sensors. Synthetic diamonds possess similar electrochemical properties, including superior chemical inertness and biocompatibility, making them desirable for use in bio, chemical sensing and as the electro. This article was authored by PowerIFIS-C, Gory Bryan, Chandra Shawneel, and others. We are article.tv, links in the description below.


One of the biggest misconceptions today is, without a publicist, you will never get anywhere in your music. After all, these people are like magicians who find some spell to cast on writers to give you press coverage. Right? Right? Right? Right? Not so much. So why would I do in this video is discuss what publicity can and can't do as someone who's been involved with hundreds of different album rollouts from a wide variety of genres. I'm gonna not only explain to you the myths of paying for publicity, but I'll also give you strategies that work whether you hire a publicist or not that will actually build your fan base. Hi, I'm Jesse Cannon and this is Muse Formation. Okay, so let's get this out of the way. The beginning of this video is gonna talk a lot of shit on publicists, but it's so you understand how to work the system, since by the end I'm gonna show you how to make all this knowledge work to your advantage. First off, it's 100% a myth you need a publicist to get blogs, podcasts, YouTubers, influencers to talk about you. If you get fans excited, all those people I just listed will talk about you. So if you take the route of building yourself up on a grassroots way by working message boards, you can do this all without ever having a publicist. I know this since I've lived this and I built up fans to huge fan bases without one, but there is a key here to how to think about this. There's a 1% here. These are records that are so good they spread from word of mouth more than 99% of other people's songs. The majority of people who hear them find it great.  You still need to have good strategy and work the record and the better your strategy and marketing, the further it will go. There's tons of records that never reach their full potential that are absolutely amazing because no one ever did the work for them. Even when you make great music a lot, then able to go much further if you do great marketing. Then there's the next 14%. These are acts that have one or two great songs and a bunch of good enough songs that have a ton of potential, but it's not being totally reached yet and may never be or they'll get better and they will send to the 1%. Publicity will do them a lot of favors as they have a few songs good enough that when they are brought to the attention, they will build up a fan base for them. The majority of people who hear them will like them and it's worth it for the publicist to take the limited time they have to push them further since this is who benefits from a publicist's attention the most because we have to remember publicists can only work the artists that are giving them results otherwise they're taking their time away from things that could get them better results and grow their own careers. Then there's the next 35%. Now, this is obviously an approximation. These are groups that are good enough that if people hear them, the publicity is not going to do a ton of good. They are good at about 20% of the people who hear them will like them. So the publicity is largely a waste, but it may set them up to have more years when they improve on their next release. I like to think of that as like the groups who have an okay debut that the people who are obsessed with the genre really like but then they really explode their audience on their next release. The other 50% is this vast majority of people who make music that no matter how much it gets promoted, no one's going to care because it just isn't good enough to make anyone want to ever hear that song a second time. All the publicity dollars are wasted since it retains at best 5% of people who hear it and that can even be a stretch since some of these don't even get second listens from anybody. Nothing is going to work to get them popular since no one listens again. If you don't believe me that this is true, do this experiment which I've done countless times to prove a point. Go to any major labels roster and look at how many artists you see that have less listens than a local band despite countless dollars in promotion spent. Promoting a bad product no longer works no matter how much money you throw at and also no matter what some version says in the needle drops comments. Let's get into what is a publicist good for. A publicist is good for three things in my opinion. A publicist is largely someone with email addresses of people who have influence but these emails largely get ignored which brings me to the second thing that is actually effective that they're good for. Relationships. These are relationships with people of influence so they will listen to the publicist pitches. Third, they're good for knowledge on how to present a musician so they have a chance of getting noticed by the people they email and they could write a pitch that actually gets people's eyes on this artist and gets them excited about them. Let's focus on number one though first. So what I'm saying is this is a person with some email addresses and what I mean by that is that many times these publicists swipe an email database from their previous job at a bigger PR firm or do enough research on their own to find the people to fill up this database that have some influence. I know this is someone who's been writing about the music business and podcasting with the musicians for over a decade. I get put on so many dumb lists because these people Google the musician's name plus interview and build up a mailing list. And yes, you can easily do this too just as easily while it takes time. If you do this regularly for about one hour a week for three months, you will probably have nearly the same list that they do. There's even services that are horrible people that collect influential people's emails and will sell you the whole list. And if I find one that sells mine to musicians, mark my words. It's on site that I will, uh...   When you or that publicist or cold-emailing people you don't know is commonly only to have a success rate of 5 to 15% of the time if you absolutely kill a pitch and have something amazing to talk about.  But the same thing goes for these publicists. When you are a small act, no one cares about. You sending that email and the publicist sending it does the same amount of nothing. So what I'm telling you here is a small-time publicist without strong relationship is not going to get you a lot. There's certain outlets who will write about anything they are pitched in their field. And you will often find that you could have gotten that publicity yourself without a publicist. So when you're a young group that hasn't commanded a much attention, it's not going to do very much. But what about when they have strong connections and represent tons of huge artists? You're probably going to pay a lot for those relationships, so you may be able to grow a little bit from it. But I will tell you this, I rarely see that happen with many of the best publicists with small acts.  The fact is a lot can go wrong hiring a publicist. And this is why they largely have bad reputations, is that one, there's a ton of variables as to when a campaign works. Two, a lot of them focus on their big clients or the ones with good responses who have good strategy. More on that later.  To give you an idea of how this publicity does actually work for you though, let's look at this graph. This represents the levels of building a fan base. What I like to say is a publicist working with a band with no content plan can get maybe about one notch on here. If they're making amazing content to help a publicity, you can often get them two notches, but that's about as far as it ever gets going outside of the 1% time that you have amazing music and they help you get it out there and you're in that 1% we talked about before. So this graph should make you wonder, is this the right time to work with a publicist? The answer is if you're at the bottom, it will probably net you very little for the money you pay. It's probably not worth the money for you to hire a publicist if you are at the bottom of the graph since the return on what you spend isn't going to be worth your ROI. As the saying goes, advertising a bad product is the greatest waste of money. This is exactly why I absolutely advise investing in PR to you see a good reaction of organic growth. You need to be able to see that when people hear your music they're reacting to it. That's when you should draw more attention to it and what a publicist is, is when you draw his attention to your music. But if you're drawing your attention to it and people aren't reacting to it well, a publicist doesn't solve that. Hiring a publicist is essentially advertising. While it's not as effective as Facebook ads, it is ineffective and it is advertising. But if you're in the middle of this graph and people have already responded well to your music, that's when it may be effective to hire a publicist. Anything above this point is usually a good point to hire one. But there's even more to it since this game isn't very fair for you or your publicist when you're a small act. A dichotomy most musicians don't get till they experiment is that yes, publicists with bigger artists often trade exposure for bigger artists for your exposure. They'll do a quid pro quo of saying that outlet they'll get an exclusive with their bigger artists if they just cover their smaller artists. But there is a problem with that thinking is it's kind of obsolete. Is that there's so few press outlets now and so many musicians that publicists no longer have that leverage to get you pressed most of the time. These outlets are so starved for clicks that they have to do what's best for them to cover groups they know are either gonna one give them loyalty for discovering an amazing gem and know that their readers will turn against them if they didn't tell them an act they should have known early on or two, give them eyes since they need eyes for their content to get ad revenue and can't afford to waste that unless it's worth it. So the eyes of them trading their big act for publicity for you is kind of a myth now. And while it can happen occasionally, the amount of bands who believe that is not proportional to how often it happens. Don't expect this to take you from zero to one. That is not a publicist's duty. It's to draw some eyes to you when you are doing something exceptional and you have something great to show them whether that's a great song or video or you're doing something else cool. If you haven't figured out what that exceptional thing is, publicity is not gonna work very well for you. But what about if you've amounted let's say 10,000 fans and you're looking to make a big move for your next song and it seems like you have done it all without a publicist. Let's talk the details of making working with a publicist well since I'm tired of being negative. The first kind of subject I want to talk about is small time press often trickles up. Often types all the small blogs and podcasts that you may not be psyched to do often are watched by the big time taste makers. This goes for Spotify playlists on the blogs on the getting on late night TV. I watch on Twitter constantly as smaller outlets like say my friends at the alternative fight and act early. Seven to 14 days later pitchfork is talking about them. If you look at the alternatives numbers compared to pitchfork they aren't comparable but their influence is priceless and is watched by so many of the influential people in music it shouldn't be underestimated. My message here is that yes a publicist may only mention a few smaller outlets but they're influential ones that can mean big things you need to do press with everyone when you're starting out. You aren't at the point where you should pick and choose publicity. If you are watching this video do a leap I can do that you can't next good pitches go a long way a strong subject in a pitch from a publicist can get you a lot of press but the thing is that is downstream from the publicist you yourself have to have created great content stories in imagery and that isn't a publicist job that is your team's job. So while you are making all that great content someone on your team should be thinking about how to describe it in a compelling way. Hell instead of thinking about how to describe it do what I've told you in previous videos and ask yourself what would get fans talking and then do that to design this content by writing down what they would say and then say that in your press release since one of the best tricks to press is to just say what you want writers to say about you anyway but if you don't have someone who can articulate your music and the story behind it considering hiring an out-of-work music writer to help you figure out what you do or you may just need to hire a publicist to do this. More about the dynamics of who you can get to help you pitch things in a future video. Now let's talk about premieres. Premieres on respected blogs these days often only gets you a few hundred looks at most when you are unknown. So many musicians get excited by a premiere but they don't move as many listeners as you probably think they do. While you should premiere music and I don't want to down it too much with a blog or whatever outlet will have you as often as possible don't expect this to move mountains. So many people lose their momentum because they're disappointed banking on a premiere is going to do huge things for them. It may just get you in front of a few influential eyes and open doors to other things. Now let's talk about YouTubers and podcasts. Getting interviewed especially in long form where fans hear your voice and your story is one of the most effective ways to create bonds with fans. Since so much of music discovery is someone with influence saying to their fans who listens to anything they say making them finally break down and take the chance to listen to your music is absolutely insane how much more effective a podcast could be for getting you fans than a premiere. But the bond you make with fans in a podcast where they grow to like you and like what your personality is can really get people invested in giving your music a big chance. People are often shocked by how big a difference this is when we go over the analytics of a campaign what actually moves marketing campaigns I work on. Okay, I could go on this for about five more videos so let's get into some key takeaways to wrap this video up. If you're going to hire a publicist you need to ask the publicist this question what relationships do you have at outlets that are solid that will definitely cover us? That answer should basically be the quid in a quid pro quo where you say you are happy to pay an amount for their services if they deliver on those relationships. I like to always tell any publicist that the agreement that you'd like to make depends on results and if they are just going to get you nothing you shouldn't have to pay them. As well you should ask them about the groups they worked with and make sure some of the ones were at a similar point in building their fan base as you. There's drastically different skill set for a publicist for building up an artist with 3,000 monthly listeners 30K and 300,000. I've managed groups at all of those levels and when we do with publicists can not be more different but some publicists throw the same plan at all of those levels. Also meet with more than one publicist. Everyone thinks the first publicist they meet is great since they don't know how good they are talking in a game since that's what they do for a living. You can quickly decide who seems best after you meet with three to five of them. So do your research and talk to a few. Now I'm also gonna say I've talked a lot of trash on publicists in this video. It's impossible for me to know every publicist obviously. There are some I absolutely love. I think do great work. Hashtag not all publicists. But what I can tell you is in the music business their work is so visible. Most of the time you can see if they are killing it. There I go being negative again though. So instead what do you do to make this work? I think you might have a hint of what I'm gonna say. Strategy, strategy, strategy. This last bit of advice goes for whether you're gonna do this yourself or hire a publicist. Since the publicists work harder for the people with good strategy. While it is absolutely true that all the groups you love with big fan bases have publicists, what they also have is strategy. While you can get far without a publicist, if you don't have strategy you're gonna get nowhere. And this brings me to another thing. Publicists are not strategists. One in a hundred publicists is amazing with strategy. If there's one thing I've experienced countless times is the publicists are so busy maintaining those relationships they need to get doors open that they throw the same strategy in every single release they do and it involves as few press releases as possible because if you have six singles instead of three that's double the work they have to do for their fee. Obviously if you watch this entire playlist on how to take yourself from zero to 10,000 fans you are interested in developing a smart strategy. But the main thing I will part on you is don't expect a publicist to be an expert on strategy since they are usually just an expert at buying Yeager bombs for some depressed writer that just got dumped again since that's literally part of their job. Remember all a publicist is doing is drawing more eyes to you. When these eyes get to you they need to see something exceptional. Let's also remember PR is often about setting your next release to grow. The more people watching you when you do achieve great miss means you go further. So thinking about your current campaign isn't always a good long-term vision. Let's remember how Spotify promotion works. For every file you get replace you in one more Discover Weekly playlist of someone who doesn't file you. This is much like publicity. You will be on one more person's radar the further you go setting up future releases for success. Thanks so much for watching. That's it. Am I missing anything? Is there any way you would have done this? I need to know your questions and what no one else is telling you since I want to answer them. So leave them in the comments. I hope you liked this video and if you did please like and subscribe and get notified for my future videos since I'm going to be breaking down the concepts in this video along with tons of others on promoting your music and how to make music you're more happy with. As well, I have a Facebook group that's linked below that has only helpful information. No one tried to sell you anything. Playlist or con artists. Only helpful information for musicians looking to be better themselves. If you want to learn more about me, make a record with me or check out any of my books, podcasts or anything else I do. Head to jessecanon.com or at jessecanon.com on any of the socials. Thanks for watching. One last thing, if you liked this video there's two playlists here with tons more videos that you'll probably enjoy. One's about how you promote your music and the other's about how you make songs you're happy with. Otherwise, you can hit the subscribe button here to see the rest of my videos. Thanks so much for watching.


From the galvanized campus in San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Apache SparkMaker Community Event brought to you by IBM. Now, here are your hosts, John Walls and George Gilbert. And welcome back to San Francisco as we continue our coverage of Spark Week here on theCUBE, along with George Gilbert. I'm John Walls, and today, we're at the Apache SparkMaker Community Event, moving to the Spark Summit tomorrow, just across town at the Hilton, as a matter of fact, on Tuesday and Wednesday. But right now, we're in Galvanize, and one of seven campuses in the Galvanize family, you might say, and with us to talk about what Galvanize is all about, is the COO of that operation, Ben Data, and Ben, thanks for being with us. We appreciate the time. Thanks for having me. And thanks for hosting. First off, great facility. When I walked in, frankly, I wasn't sure if I was at an IBM event. And we've talked about that, about the whole, the culture, the shift, and really the optics and the vibe. So kudos to you for creating a really dynamic environment. Well, thank you. It's something else. Well, let's talk about Galvanize, for those who might be watching, who aren't familiar with all that you've done. You've been around for a few years now, and this is all about educating the, really the next generation, if you will, or the first generation of data scientists. No, absolutely. Galvanize is a dynamic learning community that brings together students, startups, and industry as well, and combines education, workspace, and events to really help to accelerate all their growth. So across our campuses, you have classes in web development, classes in data science, classes in data engineering, surrounded by startups growing their business, and then large corporations as well. They're looking to tap into that innovation and talent. And the motivation, and back in, on day one, back in 2013, when the first shovel was put in the ground, if you will, figuratively, of course, I mean, what was the motivation in terms of providing this kind of an educational platform for students? Well, I think what it was is we saw a real opportunity to help fill that talent gap. The idea that technology is just advancing so quickly that the more traditional spaces for both education and how you build your business were keeping up. So we wanted to help provide really a platform for that, a container to bring it all together so that all those people who wanted to make that leap with it could have a home. Now, IBM came out with a pretty bold statement about a year ago and saying, we are going to be committed to training one million data scientists. We're going to create this, not a community, we're going to create a metropolis, if you will, of this community. Where do you fit in to that picture? You said you ran through 6,700 in a given year here. So in terms of that big, bold number, how does Galvanize play into that? Well, it is such a big problem that it's nothing one person alone is going to solve, but we really see ourselves as being a big piece of that solution. And having great partners with IBM makes that a lot easier to do. So we're behind both the data pluse event with them, helped to host that at all of our different campuses across the country. IBM's been a great sponsor for scholarships, for students coming through our program. And then we're also able to help collaborate on both what's in our curriculum and the tools that we're teaching to make sure that our data scientists are leaving with the best set of tools that they're going to use out there with their hiring partners. And who are you attracting? Who do you find, if there's a model, if you will, of the kind of student you see coming through your door or the person whom you're educating? I mean, what are they made up of? What are their characteristics and their interests? Yeah, there can be a pretty big range in it, mainly from age and background, but what you usually tend to see are folks who have been in an analytical job. So there's some place where they're working with data and they're coming across these problems that they just really want to solve, but they don't have the tools that they need to be able to do that. So as long as they have kind of the prerequisite background in an object-oriented programming language, some experience with college-level mathematics, and they're going to be at the level where they're ready to step into our program, because it is pretty intense. It's three months of nonstop, five days a week, eight to 10 hours a day, and they really get all that tool, all the different tools that they need and all the knowledge that they need in that program. And what are the core areas then? The core, we start with, usually start with just the basic statistics, working into then machine learning, natural language processing, a lot of it then focusing then on their, really their capstone project. So actually working with our industry partners or some of our member companies, so that they're working with real world data. Because obviously when you're learning data science, that's a big part of it, is all the nastiness and dirtiness of getting into a real data set. And I would guess, I mean, because you're not teaching history here, right? You're not teaching English. I mean, this is a dynamic environment in which you're operating, so the subject matter is going to change almost at the drop of a hat, that keeping up with that, and then almost you're at the cusp in so many ways. That's got to be a challenge in many respects. It is, and it's another reason that having partners like IBM and our member companies as well is so important, because having those feedback loops of what we're teaching, because that's really who determines the skills that we teach. The curriculum and the learning experience is what, that's our specialty, but really knowing the skill sets, we want to follow what industry tells us they need, because they're the ones who are ultimately the customer of our talent coming out. Is this the model that, at least in some states like California, where community colleges try and fill that role, where they'll work with industry to say what skills they need, and then the college essentially comes up with the curriculum to impart those, to teach those skills? This absolutely is a, there's a lot of different programs that try to leverage this format for, because I think we've all realized the world's moving so quickly now that trying to build a set of mastering curriculum based on your own thoughts isn't necessarily gonna move at the speed of what industry does. So you are seeing some leaders in the education space who apply this model as well. And so where did this model come from? I mean, did you guys adopt it from community colleges? Are they adopting sort of industry-specific training or role-specific training from you? Well, ours actually came out of our CEO's previous company, which is a company called Ascendant, that got acquired by ADD and that they were a major IBM implementer. He couldn't hire enough engineers to work through. So they actually created their own six-month Java school within his company to help be able to train people who had the aptitude, drive, and determination to become that. And so when he left, he really saw this as an opportunity that this could be a solution that's applied widely across technology. We first started web development, but then the next big gap we saw was in the data science and data engineering space. And so for those who are enrolled in the three-month program, I assume it's a little early for the one-year program since that probably really only ramped up with IBM's commitment. But are you seeing your industry partners, like hiring, almost everyone who's coming out of the end of the program? Yeah, absolutely. Current placement stats for our data science program are at 94% are being placed within six months upon graduation just because there is such a demand for folks with a skill set across a wide range of companies. Changing them, the pool of applicants, either in number or in kind? We've definitely seen more as there's more awareness of this opportunity out there, a lot bigger demand in the number of applicants that are coming through. And the other piece of it is starting to see a lot more demand from the hiring side. Probably the biggest challenge we see there are companies know that they have the data, they know they want to do something with it, but they're not even sure exactly what to do. I guess what I want to ask you about is that I think if I'm on, we've been talking a lot about the employee side, but on the employer side, what kind of interaction do you have with them about the areas of weakness maybe they see within their own operations where they think they need additional expertise or the areas that they see are great growth opportunities for them and what they need is people to come in and be prepared to advance the cause in those particular areas. We try to work with our industry partners as close as possible to really identify what those gaps are. We have actually been starting to put together some different programs, some with IBM actually, to focus on how do you train those executives? How do you train that next level down to really understand what's even possible with data science and data engineering? So then they can, okay, this is what we want to build out. Here's both the talent that we need and here's the tool set that we need to solve these problems. And you just said executive training. Is there a place then here or do you already do that to where you're educating on the C-suite level to give them an idea about the opportunity? So at least it's one thing to have a great tool. It's another thing to know what to do with it. Yeah, exactly. So are you seeing some of that? We have a couple of products that we're in the process of beta testing right now and getting ready to roll out, but really excited with the feedback that we've gotten so far from some of our industry partners. It's interesting that question and your comment about how you've got this core sort of pipeline now of skills coming out, but some of the companies don't have all the pieces in place to consume them and turn out applications. Well, I think the demand is absolutely there. What this is even more of is that the demand could be even bigger than it is right now. It's just the fact that you have a lot of times some of these companies who haven't even realized yet what's possible. Great example is one of the larger engineering companies in the world. I mean, they're collecting now with internet of things and all their sensors, just reams and reams of data and they haven't been doing anything with it. They've been letting their partners potentially build some of the solutions on that. Now they want to get in, they just don't know where to start quite yet. So it's going to be exciting to see once they all start figuring that out. So from in terms of expansion, if there is this huge demand on the employer side, they said we need these data scientists to come out and help us move into the next generation of analytics. I mean, can you go 10 campuses, 12 campuses, 15 campuses, do you look international? Do you go East Coast? Are any of those things on your drawing board right now or being talked about? Absolutely, I think there's a lot of opportunity to both grow geographically, also grow by modalities. Right now we primarily do this in an in-person immersive, but that's really for people looking to get into the industry. But there's a lot of folks who are in the industry who just want to pick up maybe some additional skills. So having stuff that's more part-time or online is a great solution for them as well. Luke, have you experimented with? Yeah, absolutely, we have some great partnerships with some already and some of our instructors have content on others, but I think there's even more benefit to it if you could start a class online and then maybe have access to an in-person instructor or study group or anything along those lines as well. There's a story, and it happens to be true, that Yale's most popular computer science class, I think it's their most popular class, it's Intro to Computer Science, and all the content comes from a MOOC that's Harvard's Intro to Computer Science, and Harvard folks are kind of proud of that. I can imagine. But then they're slept back down into a place by now being called the Stanford of the East, this little off topic. Well, Ben, thank you for being with us. Absolutely. We appreciate the time, and thank you for hosting. Again, great surroundings and a great environment, and I can see why you've had the success that you have, and I'm sure that will continue as well. Well, thank you very much. Thank you. Ben Data, being with us from Galvanize. We are back from Galvanize with more here on theCUBE as we continue our coverage of the Apache Sparkmaker community event here in San Francisco.