We started recording at five. So Debbie, how loud am I compared to Dan? Yeah. Well, I'm here again. So this is my level. And this is my level. You're louder and clearer. Dan, I say should come up. Okay, I'm going to back down a little bit. And I'll go up a little bit. How's that? Dan? George? Dan? One, two, three, four. How's that, Debbie? A smidge more, Dan, up. It's the only way we can tell the blend. You have to have the third person tell us how loud the other two are because you can't tell. And trust that they have decent ears. Exactly. Exactly. How's that now? Yeah. Yeah, that sounds good. Okay, good. One, two, three, one, two, three. One, two, three. One, two, three. Okay. Once I go on, you know, once we go on, it's like, it's show time. Suddenly I have all this more energy. All this energy. You got a boost of energy. I haven't seen Jeff yet, but I'll keep an eye out for Jeff and the... Yeah, I don't know if those were here or so. Lee Penny, who's the tech here? Hey, Lee. Lee is watching the show from YouTube and Facebook. Just because he can, yeah. Stevy, do you know who Lee Penny is? No. So Lee used to help us with the show in the early days. Yeah. And he's just been a fan. He's not in the VO world anymore, but he's just been a fan of ours and watched us for so long that for whatever reason. He's watching you in stereo. At the end of the show, we always say, we say thanks to Sue and everybody. And then we say, and then Lee Penny for being Lee Penny. That's cute. And we thank him at the end of every show. But we've known Lee. Lee helped us too when we were doing like that location. We did that one with Ann Gangusa. Yeah, yeah. We did that location one. God, that was like nine years ago. That was like our third anniversary of doing the show. And we've been doing it for 12 years. That video of you assembling the PVC booth was... Right. And the studio... Oh, I remember that. Yeah. That was a her place. That was absolutely classic. Yeah.  Right. Yeah. That's right. Okay. I keep trying to kill my notifications on my laptop and... I know the best way to do that is, are you Windows or Mac? I'm Mac. Next to the clock on the top right is that little switch panel, looking switch button thing. Yeah. And then go towards this personal. You should say personal or something like that. Focus. Focus. You see something like that? It should be focus. I see focus. Look on that and choose do not disturb until the end of this event. Until the... Yeah, until this evening. Focus. Do not disturb until tomorrow morning. Yeah. There you go. Thank you. Because I did it in settings and I've done it in Chrome and all these other little places, but they still pop in. I know. The good thing about that method is if you have an iPhone and a watch and all this other crap, it does it across all the devices. That is good. That actually does work. I always forget to remind us to do that, but thank you for mentioning it. And reminding me too. And reminding me, yeah, because then I just did it too. Joe Davis always has a tendency to call right in the middle of the show. We've taken more than one phone call during the show. That's the rule is if somebody calls during the show, we have to put them on. No matter who they are. If it's a doctor, if it's somebody from somewhere, but it has nothing to do with...  Absolutely. Hey, you're on the air. What are you selling? We're not selling anything. We're not trying to sell you anything. I hope you have some weirdest stories to share, Dan. Well, I was strictly talking about weird medical stories, medical jobs that you and I have done. I used to work with this company in Toronto that was all pharma. We're going to get something from the company to help you with the pronunciations of some of these drugs. And I'm like, thank God. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I'm like, it's pronounced like that. Adali Moomab? That's what we call it. I'm like, okay. Well, I love it when people from the same company pronounce it differently. Oh yeah. Yeah, I've seen that one too. Oh no. Yes. Oh yes. Oh yeah. Or, and this happened to me last week, the scratch track, the person who does the scratch is saying it one way, but you're cross-referencing and you hear it a different way. I even contacted the company to find out how to say it properly. Yeah. Dan, I'm getting, I know this is being picky. I'm hearing a little slap back from Debbie, but it's coming from you. So maybe turn down your cans a little bit. I can do that. It's just a little something because we're trying to not use too much echo canceling. So yeah, one, two, three, four, one, two, three, four. You know what? I'll turn my cans off too. Oh, those are open. Right? Oh yeah, that might have been that too. Is that better? Is that better now? I'm hearing it. No, I'm hearing it. Two, one, three, two. That's pretty much done it. I'm hearing less echo now. Less echo? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Just the teeniest little tiny bit. It's just fine. We're doing okay. Our listeners are, well, you know, they've been listening to us a long time, so they're picky about our sound. That's because we always ask them that we always like, how's it sound? How's it sound? Yeah. Hey everybody, how's it sounding? Well, let's look at the comments and see here. She's not wearing headphones. Yeah, I said I'm ever not wearing headphones. If the guest doesn't have to wear headphones. What are you reading? We're reading the comments. You know what? You don't see this comment feed, silly, which is kind of silly, but I don't know. Why does the guest get to see the comment feed? I don't get that. We have an additional feed and it's all of the comments that are getting piped into us from YouTube, Facebook, and LinkedIn. When people type in the chat, they get piped in and we see all their comments. But you as a guest don't see the comments. I don't think, which I don't. Yeah, unless you shared your screen with me, but. Yeah, you don't get to see them, which I don't know. I think that, no, it's comments is at the top. Because I can show a comment like here's a comment. Hold on, private chat comments. Uh-oh. Do you see it now? Yeah, I sure do. Okay, good, good. I want to. Pay no attention to them. And there's Lee Penny or Piney or. They could be distracting the comments, but that's where they are. So you've got comments and you got the private chat. Gotcha. Right. That makes sense. And then we can show any comment anytime by just clicking that button and then they. Uh-huh. Show up on the screen. It's very slick. All right, here we go. Okay, let's go. Sue wants this to get started. Then Michelle. Okay, we are up in probably about 40 seconds or so. She's like stand by. So as a Harley goes by, let me go close. If I'm in comments, but one of you writes in a private chat, how will I know that without. You have to click on private chat. It'll have a little thing saying there's a note. Oh, okay. There'll be a little red dot saying. Yeah. Okay, cool. So I'll get notified. Yeah, yeah, but that's.  It has a one. I see. Thank you. Yeah, this has been a great platform for us. It really made working remote better. Now, I have a helicopter. I'm going to be one way. All right, Sue, we're ready to go, I think. It's five o'clock somewhere. I think it's five o'clock here. Five, four. Hey, it's time for VoiceOver Body Shop. We're back after a couple of weeks with lots of weird stuff going on here. Surgery and Memorial Day and all these other things that go on out here. Our guest tonight is the wonderful Debbie Irwin. Say hello, Deb. Hello, Deb. There you go. See, I follow directions. Well, and being able to take directions is very important in this business. Anyway, we're going to be talking about medical narration, which is a big market because there is a lot of medical stuff going on out there. And if you want to learn a little bit more about it, now's a great hour to hang out with us and learn more about it and how to do it. And if you have any questions, all you got to do is put them in whatever chat room you happen to be in, whether you're on Facebook Live or whether you're on YouTube Live or if you're one of the growing crowd that's in LinkedIn Live, I don't know what they call it now, but anyway, throw the questions in there. Jeff Holman is hiding in there somewhere and he will relay those questions to us in the next segment so you can ask Deb those questions as well. Are we all ready, everybody? Let's do this. All right. It's time for VoiceOver Body Shop right now. VoiceOver Body Shop is brought to you by voiceoveressentals.com, the home of Harlan Hogan's signature products, Source Elements, the folks who bring you Source Connect, voheroes.com, become a hero to your clients with award-winning voiceover training, voiceactor.com, your VoiceOver website ready in minutes, VoiceOver Extra, your daily resource for voiceover success, and by World Voices, the industry association of freelance voice talent. And now, here's your hosts, Dan and George. Well, hello there, if you're wondering. I'm Dan Leonard. And I'm George Whitton. And this is VoiceOver Body Shop or VOBS. Thank you very much. Anyway, well, we're glad to be back after a couple of weeks of hiatus. And apparently, the show, the last tech talk was only on YouTube because Facebook didn't want to upload it for some reason.  It is.  So hopefully it'll all work this week and we'll get it right. Yeah. I'm glad we got multiple platforms. That's all I can say. Yeah. So I had neck surgery a couple of weeks ago.  Essentially, you know, and then sew it back up and fix my spine and all those things. And now I can walk without tripping over my own feet. It was a very strange thing. Science. Yeah. Science. I'm glad you're recovering nicely. Yeah, I'm not going to show everybody my scar like I've been doing all weekend. So we will use our imagination. Yeah, Marcy's talking. My wife is talking about putting bolts in my head. And it's like, you're looking like Frankenstein. Anyway, speaking of medical stuff, we have a great guest tonight. Debbie Irwin has been spending years of her life lending her voice to everything from medical explainer videos, for patients and medical professionals, to pharmaceutical marketing, to medical legal recordings, and more are what make her the expert in the medical narration industry. So let's welcome to the show, I guess, for the first time as an actual guest, Debbie Irwin. Hey. Hey. Hi. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's a pleasure to have you. I think we've interviewed you at Fafcon and in a couple of conferences and stuff. But this is the first time you're actually here sharing your expertise with us. So we really appreciate that. If my booth were big enough, I would curtsy right now and say thank you. Not really necessary. So how long you've been doing voiceover? I guess just 20 years. Oh, just 20 years? Yeah. Yeah, just 20 years. That's the most. That's cause for a celebration right there. Yeah. How did you get into, how did you find your way into this marvelous business? You know, circuitously, like many folks, I really didn't know anything about voiceover. I had a background in theater and had come to New York back in 1980 to pursue that dream of being a stage actress. And after I struggled for a couple of years, I decided, okay, enough of this, I'm ready for a real job. So I started working at the Guggenheim Museum, doing PR and special events. And if you know anything about the nonprofit world, especially in New York, if you're not independently wealthy or married to someone who is, then you just can't afford to, you can't afford to keep that job. So I was ready for a serious job that paid serious money. And I went to Wall Street, became a stockbroker and did that for a number of years, had a successful career there, then left Wall Street for Sesame Street when I started making babies and was lucky enough to be a full-time mom. And somewhere along the line, my mom planted the seed of, what are you going to do when you go back? And I happened to find a course in one of these, you know, NYU School of Continuing Education books. And I was like, this looks interesting. So I took the class and within the first five minutes, standing up and with a script in my hand, I was like, Eureka. I found it. So that's the Reader's Digest version of how I ended up here. And so I like to say, I like to say I'm living my dream that I came to New York for. I just didn't know it was going to look like this. It usually doesn't work that way anyway. But, and you're originally from Chicago, right? Chicago, yeah. Southside. Oh, right. You're from Southside of Chicago. Oh, yeah. Well, that's, yeah, that's not. You know I love to dance. Yes. That explains that too. So how long, how did you break into doing a lot of medical narration and how long you've been doing it? I don't think I, I don't think I really broke into it. I think it, it found me. And when I talk to my medical students, the people who coach with me, I say, you know, it's really important to, to go for the low hanging fruit. Why make it difficult?  Don't fight it. Enjoy the success of that genre and then work towards something more specific. So because of certain quality, natural quality, don't fight it around my voice. I was just hearing an echo. That'd be my fault. That was going to say it's George's fault. I was here. Don't fight it. Don't fight it. Don't fight it. I was like, is that my alter ego reminding me? Don't fight it. So because of certain qualities around my voice, it sort of naturally sounds, and I feel a little, I feel a little funny when I say this because it sounds presumptuous, but it is a spec, intelligent, authoritative, warm, worldly, sophisticated. So because of these natural qualities that are in my voice, I was getting hired for this kind of work that required somebody who sounded intelligent and could make sense of the content well enough to communicate it in a way that expressed my understanding of it, you know, and my understanding is not deep. It's broad, you know. I do try and understand the content and we can get into that later but because sometimes it's very difficult to understand the content. Yeah.  I mean, I've done a lot of it too. I've done a lot of pharma and it's not getting smaller, it's getting bigger and continues to be so, but it's a very interesting reading. Of course, every project's a little bit different. But then again, some of them just seem to sound the same all the time. So I guess I could ask, can anyone do this kind of stuff? With a pen and a paper, is anyone an author? Good, but just because everybody can doesn't mean everybody should. Yeah, and I would ask another question which is does everybody want to do it? Because it's challenging and there are certain things about medical narration that you don't find in, let's say commercials. For instance, it's long form. The terminology is, can be very technical. It can be tongue twisting. It can be difficult to understand. You have to have stamina in order to read, you know, a long script. Let's say, you know, ISI for an hour or whatever. So not everybody thinks that that's a fun job. I remember years ago I had won a session for an ISI and it was, I don't know, 10 minutes long, something like that. And really, you know, by law, they had to have it at the end of their video, but they didn't want it to be read conversationally. They wanted it to be read as fast as possible. Now, I had done my homework to prepare because I always do before I get into the booth, but I had no idea they were going to ask me to read it fast. So that was a challenge to- Like disclaimer fast or like disclaimer fast? Well, not disclaimer fast. No, not disclaimer fast, but faster than too fast. Faster than comfortable conversational speech, I guess.  So it's very technical. There are all kinds of, you know, percentages and dates and how many people in this study and that study and technical words. So it was a challenge. If I hadn't prepared, I would have, you know, been horrible. But as it was, you know, I certainly hadn't prepared like that because that had never happened before where somebody asked me to read it quickly. So. Yeah. Well, do you have to have a background in science or medicine to be a good medical narrator? No, absolutely not. You don't. But it helps and not always in the ways that somebody thinks. I am the daughter of a scientist. My dad was an entomologist. And so, you know, we had insects and vials in the refrigerator growing up. And, you know, so science was part of my childhood. And certainly having familiarity in the field is helpful. But the field is so vast to your point that, you know, there's terminology in, you know, cardiology that you're not going to hear in gynecology, et cetera, et cetera. So in all the different subsections, sectors, you may be really proficient there, but not necessarily in, you know, in content that you're not familiar with. I got to ask a totally out of the blue question, but that's just, I just, I'm a color guy. I'm the color guy here, right? So is it, is a man going to get booked to do gynecological generation? No. No. Right? Yeah. Just. Because here's the thing. We always, we're always storytelling and we're always thinking about not only who am I, but who am I talking to? Exactly.  Hell no. Right? No. So it's, you know, it's, it's, it's almost insensitive. I mean, that's not to say there aren't male gynecologists and that women don't go to them, et cetera. However, however. POV, the POV of the, of the female. Of the listener, of the audience. Right. Who are you, who are you talking to? And how do they want to be spoken to? Are they elderly? Are they young? Are they your peers? Are they, you know, above you?  Because when we're talking to our spouse or our kid or our in-laws, we speak differently. Absolutely. If you're just joining us, our guest is Debbie Irwin and we're talking about medical narration. We just talk about general stuff on this show a lot, but something really specific like medical narration, which is, as we said, very, very large. If you've got a question about this, all you got to do is write it down in the chat room, wherever it is you're watching our show right now. And we will get to that question in just a little bit. So stay tuned for that. So I guess a follow-up to that would be like when you're doing these types of reads, who are you talking to?  Are you talking to patients? Are you talking to just the general public? I would imagine it's... Yes, yes, and yes. Okay, I figured it would be specified in the specs on that. But rarely all three at the same time, I would imagine. Yes. So here's, you know, here's the thing. When I talk about medical narration, I say it's a huge umbrella, under which you have commercials and explainers and e-learning and IVR and Voice of God and MOA, Mechanism of Action and Mechanism of Disease Animations, ISI, the Important Safety Information. So you have all these different sub-sectors that are areas that people work in without, you know, outside of the medical sphere. So in terms of commercials, it could be a commercial for a senior living center. It could be a commercial for a hospital. It could be a commercial for Okravis. I'm on... My voice is on the currently running Okravis and everybody tells me they hear it all the time, you know, giving the fair balance information. So there's a lot of work there, and that's not complicated and it's not challenging.  They're reached privately through other kinds of media, explainer videos or these medical animations and scientific animations because they need, they have a... Well, pharma salespeople have a toolkit with all these different assets and sometimes it's, let's say, an e-learning video that's a conversation between a patient and a doctor.  All that stuff is all over, right? You hear it all over. Are you probably more likely to book commercials for pharmaceuticals if you've been doing medical narration for a long time? Well, I don't know that you're necessarily more likely to but if you are proficient in reading the more challenging medical text, then, yes, you're more likely to be hired for that specific role in a commercial, which is the important safety information, which is the fair balance. You know, do not take this with milk and the serious side effects could be blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Don't take this drug if you happen to be allergic to this drug. Exactly, exactly. But for the commercials that are, you know, at St. Joseph's healthcare, we care about everybody in the neighborhood, not just the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? You don't need to have a background in medical. Or be a strong medical narrator in order to do that. Well, you need to be a storyteller and be compassionate. So, yeah. Just I want to finish answering your earlier question, Dan, about does it help to have a background in science? So, yes, as I was saying before, it helps that you are, you know, familiar and comfortable with many of the, many of these, you know, complicated terms. But where it's really helpful is when it comes time to market yourself. So, some of my students, you know, I've had an anesthesiologist, I've had nurses, pharmacists, science writers, etc. So, at the point at which you're ready to hang your shingle, you know, open for business, and I'm a stickler on when that time is, because you need to be able to do any and all of those different kinds of medical narration, in particular, and especially the complicated stuff, in order to call yourself a medical narrator and a pro, right? Because I've heard plenty of stories from clients who just, you know, so frustrated that people represent themselves as that. Anyhow, I'm getting off track. So, once you're ready to really put yourself out there and say, yes, this is what I can do, when it's time to start knocking on people's doors via LinkedIn, let's say, when you have a background as an anesthesiologist, you know that lingo, you know those people, you can join a hundred groups on LinkedIn. I don't know that you'll find a hundred anesthesiology groups, but you will find many. And you join the group and you start to converse with them, and you have things in common with them. So, you can add to the conversation because you know what they're talking about. I usually suggest being a fly on the wall initially, just to hear and see what people are, you know, talking about. But at any point, when you feel like you've got something to add, add it. And that way people start to get to know you and you're presenting yourself as someone who is also familiar with anesthesiology.  It's secondary, right? And as I tell my students, look, if, you know, when, you know, if the job has to do with anesthesiology and I'm knocking on the door and my student who was one is knocking on the door, they're going to open it a lot faster for him than they are for me because they share something in common with him. Right. So, where is the work? I mean, you were saying there's so many different pieces of this. I mean, pharma and, you know, pharma to doctors, pharma to the general public. You've got, you know, doctors to doctors. I mean, we can discuss some of the weird jobs we've had in a little bit because I have a doozy. Anyway, so where, how do you find the work for all these different types of genres? Well, let's talk about what kind of work it is. It's, you know, many times when you're talking to somebody who doesn't know about voiceover, when you start to list all the different kinds of voiceover there are, they'll be like, Oh, wow, yeah, I never really considered that that was voiceover. And the same thing happens in here. So I'm just going to rattle off a bunch of different kinds of projects. There are aftercare videos. Right. Are you, maybe you were sent home with one after. Yeah. No, I, no, I, well, I was sent a few of those. Yeah. Okay. Somebody voiced those. Somebody shot them and voiced them. Right. And it could have been you, Dan. There are award ceremonies, you know, hospitals have benefits, annual benefits, and they've got their, their anthem video showing what they've accomplished over the course of the year. And that needs a narrator. There are, there's tons of e-learning, continuing medical education for all kinds of HCPs, healthcare professionals. There are funding pitches. So I was hired to narrate a video for Johns Hopkins University. They were pitching to get funding for some research around blood testing. And they put a lot of money into creating this video. And I got to voice it and they won a $50 million grant. Now, you know, that's just one other little kind of thing. People probably never even thought about that. And then there are in-office videos, right? When you're in the hospital or in your doctor's office, it, you know, they don't want to have to say the same thing to a hundred people over and over. So they'll create a video of content that's relevant to everybody so that they can consume it on their own. There's student education. There's what to expect. There's medical and surgical videos, anatomical cellular. I mean, there's research videos. There's just a tremendous amount of work happening globally. Once again, we're talking with Debbie Irwin about medical narration. And I'm sure that brings up a lot of questions for everybody. And you were talking about, you know, in-office stuff. When you're sitting there in a doctor's office, now they have, you know, a video screen in there and they're running some medical network or something specific to that particular area that the doctor you're seeing is about.  And then they'll be interviewing a doctor or something. But somebody's got to narrate that stuff. So where can you find copy for these types of things so you can try to practice it and see if you can do this kind of stuff? Well, you can transliterate a commercial, right? But my favorite place to tell people where to find copy is in their medicine cabinets. Now, I don't know about you, but when I go to the drug store and, you know, pick up my, in this case, okay, it's Zolpidem. Every now and again, I need a little help sleeping. So I like to have that little pill just in case. Or if I'm traveling to Europe, I want the help to go down. And so most of the time, you know, we just take this and we toss it and we go into the bag and get, you know, get our goodies, but actually do not toss this document. This is invaluable. There is so much wonderful information here. And this is ISI. This is important safety information that you'll be asked to read. So just hit up your medicine cabinet. Your ibuprofen, I can barely read it. I need a magnifying glass and it says peel back here and then underneath here are all the warnings and symptoms and indications and all the rest of that stuff. Or even if you have a pet, right? And you have to get some medication for your pet. You know, there's instructions in here. It really does. Right. The ingredients. It's for Zimox. Advanced formula optic HC1%. Warnings and cautions, uses, contraindications, right? Whether it's a dog or a human. So there's lots and lots of wonderful information right here.  Oh, good. That packet of information, you know, that tells you what to do, what the steps are, that's medical e-learning right there. First, you do this. These are the pieces in the box. You have this, that and the other thing. You know, first you unscrew the tab, then you do the this and then you do the that. So it's not just ISI information that you can have easy access to. Yeah. Where do you find buyers for this? No, I remember I worked for companies that contract out to the pharmaceutical companies. And I assume the pharmaceutical companies do it themselves as well. Well, how do you and how do you find them? I mean, the names are all pretty well known, but. Yeah. It's hard to work directly with J&J or, you know, any of the any of the big pharma companies because they are so huge and they either have their own ad agencies or and or in-house production companies or they're dealing with agents, you know, to provide them with with talent. So on the on the P2Ps, you'll oftentimes see projects that come through for, you know, Medicare or hospitals, etc. And you can also do your Google research to find production companies and, you know, those science communication studios, let's say, or medical device manufacturers, you know, government agencies also produce a tremendous amount of content that has to be narrated. Universities and academic institutes, I've developed a relationship with a couple of universities and for their graduate students, master's thesis projects, I have narrated many of them. So they are learning how to be animators. They're getting their master's degree in this. And so for their thesis, they have to create a project and part of making a project perfect and the best it can be is to have a professional voice artist. So I see that as an opportunity to also teach these young people who are coming into the field about working with a voice artist and what kind of information is helpful for us to have. So, you know, so I can hopefully send some people out there who think about voice and sound and music earlier in the process. Right, right. Once again, we're talking with Debbie Irwin. We're talking about medical narration. It's a big long subject. I mean, if you're teaching it and there's so many different things there. But again, if you've got a question, throw it in one of the chat rooms you might be hiding in right now and let us know what you want to know and Deb will be able to answer that. All right. This is this is get to some interesting stuff here. Like the hardest part of this business of doing medical narration is pronouncing some of the names. There's if you're good at Latin or some of these other things, it helps, I imagine. But you've got a couple of words here that I, you know, two of them I have no problem with. The last one, I don't think anybody can do, although I'm sure you've probably practiced it a million times. Like, I wonder if Sue can put some of these up there as we're saying them. Like the first one here is Spheno-Palatine Ganglia Neralge. Spheno-Palatine Ganglia Neralge. How do I do with that one? Yeah, pretty good. Spheno-Palatine Ganglia Neralge. Yeah. Which I... Yeah. Any guesses as to what the heck that is? Well, I already know. Let's see if anybody else knows that. You know what that one is, George? Heck no. Spheno-Palatine Ganglia Neralge. It's a very serious condition. You should know it, George. Everybody should know it.  It's an ice cream headache. Ah, that's a good one. Which is more acute than a migraine headache, apparently. Yeah, just not as long lasting. More brief. Right. Yeah. I didn't know that. Wow. All right. This one, the second one here is my personal favorite. Because when anyone asks me about medical narration like, well, could I do medical? Well, you have to say something like Ankylosing Spondylitis without thinking about it. There it is. Ankylosing Spondylitis. I knew that one, you know, and I had to do it because Ankylosing Spondylitis is a, not Plaxoriasis, but it's an inflammation thing with due to your immune system. Spine and joints, right. Right, right. And there's lots of different treatments for it. NSAIDs and what's your nonsteroidal, whatever it is. See, I've done a lot of this stuff. I know where all this goes, but let's look at the last one here because I have no idea what it is. No, not Spalentine ganglioneralgia, but the last one we had there, Sue. That really, really, really long one. Really, really long one. It's, all right. She's going to put it up here and then we're all going to say it together. Okay. And then we're going to go to a break and take your questions. It's Numomono- Numomono to Ultramicroscopic Silicocovoclonanosis. Okay. Go for it. I think we need to do a little, you know, a little... Thank you. Numomono Ultramicroscopic Silicovoclonanosis. Boy, it does a special skill at looking at that very, very long word and knowing kind of mentally where to divide. No, no, I need help. Smaller chunks or... I need help. I use the dictionary all the time. There are medical dictionaries that I refer to. But it looks completely phonetic. It's a matter of not tripping. It's a really long, long word, but it's really just a bunch of words. Right. Because medical terminology is based in Germanic language. Germans love to string a bunch of freaking words into one new word. And it's like, if you can subdivide that mentally, right, you can break it down. But when you look at it as a whole, it's like letters. Right. And what is this stuff? What is Numomono... Black lung disease. Miners, asthma. Right. Why don't they just call it that? No, they've got to come up with that name. Anyway, once again, we're talking with Deb Irwin and we're talking about medical narration. If you've got a question, throw it in the chat room right now because we're going to get to it in just a little bit. But right now we're going to take a quick break and listen to some of the people who support our show. And we'll be right back with Deb Irwin here on Voice Over Body Shop. So don't go away. Have you noticed the specific demands of clients regarding our home VO studios? Are they at a professional level to record for broadcast? And what does that mean? To me, it means it doesn't sound bad. I've seen several now demanding cardioid condenser microphones. Some are great and cheap ones not so great. So how do you choose? 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And that's one of the reasons why you may have heard of it by now. And it's also why you probably should be quite adept at using this tool, even if you don't have any clients using it quite yet. It has a process to set up and learn to use. It is not something that is one click and go because it's an application. And it's also a bit of an integration with your studio equipment and your network. And you need to know how all of that stuff works. The good news is if you sign up for a subscription, which I highly recommend, they will do it for you. You can book a session with them and they will handle the initial tech setup for you and walk you through the process, which I think is money well spent. Yes, it's true. You sign up. You're paying for a subscription, but you're getting the support and it's worth it. I recommend it. I know many times in the past I've said, just get your free trial, get a demo. And that might be fine for some of you who are much more technical, have a higher aptitude for learning new tech and jumping through a lot of hoops to get things to work. However, if you feel like this is going to make your career to have the technology and you really want that extra level of help, sign up. Get a subscription and have them walk you through it. It's really worth it. You'll feel confident in your studio when you've gone through this. And if you do the extra mile of certification, which you can also opt to do is get certified, you're telling your studio clients, the ones that you work with, that you know what you're doing and you know they know you have a great sounding studio. Anyway, Source Elements is a great software. Get familiar, get certified and feel like a pro right now. Head over to Source-Elements.com and get started. Now, back to you. Well, hey there, heroes. It's David H. Lawrence, the 17th of VO Heroes. And I had a chance recently to talk to Amy Jo Berman. Now, who is Amy Jo Berman? She's somebody who can help you with your career. If you visit the URL below, you'll see it. Amy Jo Berman is the former head of casting at HBO. So she sits on the opposite side of the table when you're doing your auditions, whether it's on camera or voiceover. And she has a lot to say about things like AI and synthetic voices and getting paid for auditions that people have been talking about. Self-tapes at home, which we've been doing in the world of voiceover for like what centuries now. This link will take you to a place where you can register for her free webinar, where you can ask any questions you want about making your auditions better.  So visit voheroes.com slash Berman. That's voheroes.com slash Berman. This is Bill Ratner and you're enjoying Voice Over Body Shop with Dan Leonard and George Wittem, vobs.tv. And we are back with Debbie Irwin. We're talking about medical narration. Now, one of the things that I wanted to challenge you with was, what's the weirdest medical narration job you've had? I gave you a couple of days to think about this. What did you come up with? It's lame. That really tough ISI one, right? Which where I had no clue that they were going to ask me to do it at speed 45 instead of 33. Times when the name of a drug and people in the same company don't agree on how it's supposed to be pronounced, which is kind of funny. And in a situation like that, you do it every which way they ask, and then you let them duke it out later after the session. Yeah, a couple of bases. Right. And then I have one. It's kind of funny that came to mind. It wasn't a medical. It was for a perfume. And this was years ago. I was in a studio session and I tend to move a fair amount when I'm working, even when I'm not working. And I was in this adorable jumper. And for, you know, what a jumper is, right, folks? You know, you're wearing stockings. You have a shirt and then it's like a dress skirt kind of thing over. Well, this adorable jumper was lined with some kind of satiny material. And every time I moved, it was so I had to take my dress off in order to get the job done. Well, luckily, even though there was a mirror there, luckily, the mirror was like just to here. So, you know, there was nothing they were seeing, but I had to disrobe to get the job done. Take that context. No, I've had. Not fully, just partially. Yeah. Now, in the medical stuff, I've had two really weird ones. One was some doctor doing a lecture and nobody could understand him because his accent was so bad. So they hired me to be his voice on this thing. And it was like, wow. Okay, I can't even remember what the subject matter was. But that was weird. But the weirdest one and probably the most uncomfortable one was some doctor who was selling a product and showing people how to use it to diagnose ED, which involved needles and a number of other things. And the video was very graphic. And it's like, but this, and I'm like, why? Why don't just have the guy do it himself? His voice is fine. No, no, no. I want somebody professional to do it. And I'm like, and I'm watching this video and I'm going. So, yeah. See, I told you I'd come up with a good one. But that's, and that's just one out of a million, you know, that we've all done those types of things.  Can't even see it. No, you can't. You can't. You can't. Anyway, once again, if you've got a question for Debbie Irwin about medical narration, throw it in the chat room right now. We still have time for a couple here. But let's get to these. George, why don't you get the one from Patricia Andrew. I will. Thank you. Hi, Patricia. Thanks for writing in from YouTube. I have a degree in radiography and when I worked at a legal office for many years and where she did or then, because I can't read. You can read it on screen and correct my terrible comprehension of the English language. Where can I look to get medical or legal narration and in Spanish too? Well, you gave us a little bit of ideas, I think. Well, first of all, are you able to, you know, the fundamentals? Do you have an excellent space to record and, you know, how to record yourself, you know, how to edit, you know, there are these fundamentals that have to be in place in order for you to then take the next step. The next step is training, is learning how, getting familiar with the content, right? So the fact that you're familiar with radiology is great, but that does that, that doesn't necessarily mean that you know how to tell a story. That doesn't necessarily mean that you know how to act. In the case of Dan, that he needed to act calm.  I was laughing more than anything else. Oh, okay. Good thing about Patricia, she's a fan and watched our show for a long time and worked with Dan on her studio. So she's got a great place to record, but like you said, it is a form of acting. Absolutely. I mean, no matter, every kind of voiceover is storytelling. So you have to be comfortable with the format, right? And know what to expect. So different, you know, when I approach a script, I approach it from like three different doors. The first door is the genre. What do we know in general about the genre? If it's e-learning, we know that it's going to be sort of more professional, a little more buttoned up. It's going to be instructive.  If it's an explainer, you know that as a genre, they're light and friendly and easygoing and very conversational. And if it's ISI, you know that it's, you know, really serious and, you know, you have to get through these complicated terms and the complicated text in a way that sounds like, you know, exactly what you're talking about. So that's the first doorway, the genre. What can we, what do we know about the genre in general? And then there's the structure. You take a look at that script and how it's structured.  If it's e-learning, you know, that's, you know, we're going to talk about what we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about what you're going to learn. Then we get into the learning and then we talk about what you learned and that's that structure. When it comes to important safety information, when you look at these, at these documents, you know, you'll see and become familiar with the format of them. You know, there's indications. What is this used for?  So you become familiar with the structure. And then the third doorway into a script is by the content, right?  Who are you telling the story and who are you telling the story to? So all of these components are really important. And assuming that you have all of that kind of training, then you're ready to start to put yourself out there and find work. I think that was the crux of the question, which I did a terrible job of reading, which says, where can I look to get medical or legal narration? And I think she means work. She didn't put the word work at the end, but I think that's what she meant. And you mentioned earlier that paid-to-play sites are a common place to look for that. Yeah, and also production companies, right? And again, what I suggest is being a fish in a different pool of water, where you are the only voice actor, right? So I use a metaphor that, you know, when we have a project, there are a series of actors, of people who are players, right, in the project. And I say that we're all in the same show. We're just not on the stage at the same time. So I've made it my business to get to know the other players in the show, right? The writers, the animators, the illustrators, the editors, the producers. I'm a member of Swiney, which is science writers in New York, right? And I'm the only voice actor there. Why am I there? Well, I tell them, chances are I've voiced some of the things that you've written. It makes sense. The more I understand about the entire process, the more helpful I can be. She needs to go find her Swiney. Find your Swiney. There you go. I think I left mine at home. Let's see here. Jeff Holman asks, great question. Is medical narration sourced through agents? Like the big pharma companies? Yeah. Yes. Yes, and? And? Not all work comes through agents. And not all. I don't know the big agencies well enough to know if some of them are the go-to for certain genres. Recently, somebody told me that Atlas is the go-to for in-show documentary narration. And I don't know if that's accurate or not, but in hearing that, it makes me think, okay, so maybe there are agencies that are more prone to get certain kinds of work. I don't know of any that just does medical or specializes in medical. But if I go knocking on a door of a production studio in the states or in the US production studio or even a talent agency in Europe, I say this is my expertise. And that immediately makes me different from everybody else. I'm not just a Jane of all trades. This is what I, and I also take a look at who else is on their roster to see, do they have voices that are like mine or do I bring something different? Yeah. AJB Voice Actor on YouTube says, hey Debbie, I'm on Okravis. Can you say progressive, multifocal, luco, and synopilopathy? And cephalopathy. Yes, progressive, multifocal, luco and cephalopathy. I think I just said it. Was that what you had to say, AJB? I guess. Justin Ramos says, hey, did Debbie mention their Michael choice? Is that the shotgun on screen? It is a shotgun on screen. Tell us a little bit more about your actual studio. Studio Bricks, the voiceover version. I know now they're making the pads out of recycled blue gene material or something like that. There you go. Right there. This is my home inside my home. And I love it here. I also use it as a storage area for my lipstick because I love wearing lipstick. Oh, those are pens and they're lipstick. This is lipstick. And over here are my lemon glycerin swap sticks. Which I adore.  For mouth de-clicking, if I'm too wet, if I'm too dry, I open this up and I swab, swab, swab. And then I stick it in. I have a pencil holder that's like a broom. So I just stick it right in there. And then I just continue to use it. Now over here where you can't see, I have my pens and pencils and a chapstick. Do the guys at Studio Bricks think about this when they were designing all this stuff? I don't think so, but I'm really good at using that. Tony Hoover, a question or comment here. Some people who use Google Translate, they type the word that hit the microphone icon and hear an AI voice speak the word. Is using Google Translate a good idea? More importantly, is it accurate? Well, I often triangulate resources because there's a British pronunciation of a word and there's an American pronunciation of that same word. You can be given a reference to how to pronounce something in a video. And that person speaks English with a very heavy non-English accent. And it can be hard to decipher what it is that they're saying. And also just figure out if that's really the correct pronunciation or if that's just a reflection of their accent and their understanding of it. So I will go to the company oftentimes to ask how it's pronounced. Generally the person who answers the phone knows it pretty well because he or she or they are saying it all the time. But I like to use Webster's Medical Dictionary a lot. And I also use the Cambridge Dictionary to get the British and English pronunciations. And I check with my clients. Yeah, that's always a good one. It's like, yeah, they're the ones that make it. Perhaps they know how to pronounce it. Yeah, it always amazes me how weird some of these pronunciations are. And how do they come up with some of these drug names? And then there's the actual name of the drug. And then they come up with the commercial name for it. And it's like, okay, and boy, they are really pushing it on people if you watch the nightly news or something. It's one med commercial after another.  And now we're noticing that the disclaimers and the adverse reaction stuff is like 40% of the commercial. Sure. Yeah. Well, so the law changed, I don't remember when, but it used to be that all of that important safety information of fair balance, the disclaimer stuff, was read really, really fast. And somebody in Washington said, this doesn't make any sense because nobody can understand it. So now that disclaimer information is not read quickly. And in fact, it's read in the same kind of almost conversational voice as the rest of the spot. They don't want it to really stick out. And it's read over people who are on screen, they're having a wonderful time and they're laughing and they're in a bathtub or they're at the beach. And all the rest of these really beautiful things. So what you're seeing and what you're hearing are not really matching up, but that's the way it's done now. So Deb, if someone wants to learn from you how to do this and enter this marketplace because there seems to be plenty of work out there, how would they get in touch with you? At my website, debbierwin.com, and there's a contact form there and you can fill it out and let me know. I ask you questions about your experience and what areas you're interested in working in. And then I'll get in touch with you and schedule a free 20-minute chat and figure out if it's a good fit. I'm not the right fit for every project or every person. And I offer both private coaching and I'm also doing small groups now as well. I have a couple of medical ones coming up in next month and the month after. Excellent. Well, Deb, it is a pleasure to see you. We don't get to see each other much during the pandemic, but now we're running into each other in all sorts of places, which is great. Thanks for being on the show tonight and we really appreciate your expertise in this and I'm looking forward to having you out again when we'll talk about something else to talk about. All right. There must be something. We always find something when we get to get it. Thanks so much. All right. Thanks for being with us. Thanks, Debby. All righty. Well, George and I'll be right back to wrap things up and re-rack it for Tech Talk right after these important messages. So don't go away. You're still watching VOBS. Your dynamic voiceover career requires extra resources to keep moving ahead. There's one place where you can explore everything the voiceover industry has to offer. That place is voiceoverextra.com. Whether you're just exploring a voiceover career or a seasoned veteran ready to reach that next professional level, stay in touch with market trends, coaching products and services while avoiding scams and other pitfalls. Voiceover Extra has hundreds of articles, free resources and training that will save you time and help you succeed. Learn from the most respected talents, coaches and industry insiders when you join the online sessions bringing you the most current information on topics like audio blows, auditioning, home studio setup and equipment, marketing, performance techniques and much more. It's time to hit your one-stop daily resource for voiceover success. Sign up for a free subscription to newsletters and reports. It's all here at voiceoverextra.com. That's voiceoverextra.com. Well, guess what? It's time to talk about a great new service from our friends at voiceactorwebsites.com and it's called voiceactor.com. What is voiceactor.com? Voiceactor.com is a website that allows you to get your website up in a very short period of time. When we came up with this idea, Joe Davis and I were talking about it. He says, what do you want? What would be good for people in the voiceover business?  Because back when it was always very difficult that you'd have to hire a webmaster and I want this content, I want that. I said template it, make it easy. People can go in there, they can use a template, they can change the colors, they can add the pictures they want and it's very user-friendly and you can do it really, really fast and get yourself online very, very fast. And to get started with voiceactor.com, it's free. $20 a month will get you even more features with it. But if you need to get your website up now, that's the place to do it. Go over to voiceactor.com and get your website up and running right now. We are the World Voices Organization. Also known as WOVO. We're the not-for-profit industry association of freelance voice talent. VoiceOver is a complex entrepreneurial business. WOVO is there to promote the professional nature of voice work to the public, to those already established in their voiceover practice and to those who want to pursue voiceover as a career. Membership benefits include a supportive and creative community, a profile and demos on voiceover.biz. Our searchable directory of vetted professional voice talent. Our exclusive demo player for your personal website. Our mentoring program. Business resources and our video library. Our annual WOVOCon conference. A fun and educational weekend with other members with the chance to learn and network. Webinars and great speakers and weekly social chats with other members around the world. If your world is voiceover. Make WOVO part of it. World Voices Organization. We speak for those who speak for a living. Yeah. Hi, this is Carlos Ellis Rocky, the voice of Rocco, and you're watching VoiceOver Body Shop. And we're back with VoiceOver Body Shop to wrap things up for this particular segment. Our thanks again to Debbie Irwin for her expertise in medical narration. And it can be a lot of fun doing medical narration, especially when you get the weird words and the weird jobs. Anyway, let's see here. Next week on this very show, and we're about to do it live, if you happen to be watching live, you might want to stick around and ask your questions for Tech Talk. Otherwise, you're going to have to watch it and replay, but it's a lot more fun when you watch it live because we never know what's going to happen. So next week, we'll have Tech Talk number 104. And then on June 19th, Hugh Klitsky will be joining us to talk about getting your demos the way they should be. And he's an expert on demos, and he's a fun guy to talk to. Let's see here. George the Tech, you got any specials for all the people going to your website? We just have the same coupon code I've been telling you guys about for quite a long time. And that is on our site at just put in V-O-B-S Fan 10. And get 10% off on anything that you buy or do through georgethe.tech. Alrighty. Here are our donors of the week. We've got a couple of new ones. So we'll start off with Grace Newton. Christopher Apperson. Robert Liedem. Steven Chandler. Casey Clack. Jonathan Grant. Thomas Pinto. Greg Thomas. A Doctor Voice. Ant-Land Productions. Martha Kahn. 949 Designs. Sarah Borges. Phillip Sapir. Brian Page. Patty Gibbons. Rob Ryder. Shawna Pennington-Baird. Don Griffith. Trey Mosley. Diana Birdsall. Maria Mackis. And Sandra Manwheeler. Alrighty. Thanks. You can donate to the show if you go to our website. If you're already there. V-O-B-S.tv. There's a little button there that says donate now and you can give us a dollar a month. Ten dollars a month. You can give us your entire life savings and we will not complain. Anyway, but that helps us keep the show going and technically fantastic. The other people helping us out are our sponsors like Harlan Hogan's Voice Over Essentials. Voice Over Extra. Sorus Elements. VioHeroes.com. VoiceActor.com. And WorldVoices.org. The Industry Association of Freelance. Voice Talent joined today because we get lots of cool stuff going on there. Our thanks to Jeff Holman in the chat room getting all those questions to us from Facebook and YouTube and all that stuff. Sue Merlino who has to leave us for whatever reason. So George and I get to control everything for the next hour for getting things done on the technical end. And of course, Lee Penny just for being Lee Penny. Well, this is not an easy business, but there's so much to it and that's why we bring you people like Debra Irwin and all the other great guests we have to tell you how to succeed in this business with lots of trying. Anyway, I'm Dan Leonard. And I'm George Woodham. And this is Voice Over. Bonnie Shaw. Or Vio. B. S. Stay tuned for Tech Talk. We'll be right back. Where'd you get that one from? All righty. All right, now we have to find the out for this. Oh, it's this one. All right. That's like, oh, it's this one. That's what razor blades are for. Yes. Anyway, it's time for Tech Talk. If you've got a question for us about your home Voice Over studio or some technology thing related to that, now would be a really good time to throw it in the chat room. Because indeed, Jeff Holman's back there. And we want those questions because that's what makes this show work. But we've got lots of cool stuff to talk about tonight. So let's get into that so we can all have dinner sooner. Yeah, who do you email one in advance too? So that's good. I know. And that's the great thing. If you email your stuff in, you get first in the queue. Hand it online. Right. But if you're watching the show live, you can put it all in there too. So we love it when you're watching and giving us these questions. So let's get rolling on that. And okay. And let's start in five, four, three, two. Hey, it's time for Voice Over Body Shop. Tech Talk number 104. So I'll go the one, the zero, and you give us the four. Tech Talk number 104. Again, if you've got a question for us, put it in the chat room. It's about your home Voice Over studio. That's what George and I are experts in. And we love to talk about it. So if you want to hear the right stuff and the right answers to your questions, this is the place to do it. So get it in there right now. Are we ready, Mr. Widdem? Oh, yeah. We got a lot of tech news. So I'm going to be, I'm going to be speaking quickly this week to get through all right. All right. Well, that's great. And I'm going to talk a little bit about microphones a little bit more. So stay tuned. Aside for Voice Over Body Shop Tech Talk right now. Voice Over Body Shop Tech Talk is brought to you by VoiceOverEssentials.com, the home of Harlan Hogan's signature products. Source Elements, the folks who bring you Source Connect. BioHeroes.com, become a hero to your clients with award-winning Voice Over training. VoiceActor.com, your Voice Over website ready in minutes. Voice Over Extra, your daily resource for Voice Over success. And by World Voices, the industry association of freelance voice talent. And now here's your hosts, Dan and George. Well, that new opening makes me dizzy. Hi, I'm Dan Leonard. And I'm George Widdem. And this is Voice Over Body Shop or V-O-B-S. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Lots of tech to talk about tonight. Do I have Tech Talk button on here? Yeah, probably. That's not it. I don't like that. That's not it. Delete that one, by the way. Anyway. These were already on here when I got it. Okay, good. All right. Time for Tech Talk.  Hey, what's the traffic light out there? All right. Yeah, you know, that kind of stuff. Okay. All right. Now that we're distracting everybody, we're here to talk about Home Voice Over Studios. And why are George and I doing this? Why have we been doing this for the past 12 years? One, to improve everybody's audio. But two, to remind you that it takes professional help to get your sound the way it's supposed to sound. What it's supposed to sound like. Whistle. And there's a way it's supposed to sound. And George and I, kids whistle. Whistle kiss. Whistle kiss. Whistle kiss. Okay, whatever. What it's supposed to sound like.  That's right. But that's what we teach you guys. And this is what we do. We can teach you how to keep it simple and not panic and not be intimidated by what all this stuff. You got to use this compressor and this channel strip. And oh, this is the microphone you got to use and stuff like that. And basically it's all misinformation. Everybody's telling you what works for them as opposed to what works best for everybody. And again, not everything works best for everybody. So it takes somebody who understands what's going to make you sound the way you're supposed to sound in the space that you specifically have. And that's where George and I are experts on. We also fix stuff because as George has a t-shirt, you still have the t-shirt that says, I'm here because you broke something. I wish I did. I had that a long time ago. But I think that's a great one. I love that one. I think we'll both have that. Maybe we make that the logo for George the tech. We're here because you broke something and things break. And we know how to fix it because we understand the troubleshooting. We understand the process of how it all works.  Or why didn't it save it? Or why is the program shedding all these things? We've seen it all. We know how it works. Somebody we know very well says, why doesn't this new microphone work? Why do I sound so distant? And it was the old, are you talking into the gold dot? Right, exactly. Am I talking into the wrong side of the microphone? Yeah, you are now. Anyway, if you would like to work with one of us as somebody who knows what they're talking about, if you want to work with George, where would you go? You would go to where is that one? Oh, here it is. It's the one dot. Oh, let's see. Oh, that one. George the dot tech. You go over to George the dot tech to talk to George. And he's got all of those services. Like what? Not just me. Well, not just to me. This is a team effort now at George the dot tech. We have like an unbelievable array of tech team members. Dan included as well. But we have an amazing array of people and the team grows. First of all, I'm flattered that folks want to work with us and provide services. But I mean, look at these. Some of these are some familiar faces, wouldn't you say? Yeah, I don't know. We've got some familiar faces over here at George the dot tech. And you can work with any of them. They're available for scheduling. And you can actually through our website, go to view all services. And when you're there, you can filter by category. So if you just want to learn about Reaper stuff, click on the Reaper category and you'll see services that can be related to using Reaper, right? So we've made it a little bit easier to filter because we have a lot of services. There's a lot in this menu. It became a little bit of a Greek restaurant menu. So you can search and filter out that way.  Well, we've got get started here. And if you go to get started here, this is an onboarding intake.  We'll read what you're looking to get help with. And Rich will either help you himself or send you to a specialist. So we have so many ways to help you. And we can wake love your support over at GeorgeD.Tech. All right. How about yourself? Well, if you go over to homevoiceoverstudio.com, which is right here. See, now I'm catching on on how to do all this stuff.  And I like to see who's coming up in the business and who's got the talent. And sometimes I get audio from people. I'm like, are you sure you want to be doing this? But if their audio is is good, or if it's not so good, I need to hear exactly what's going on. And that's why we have the specimen collection cup. OK, yeah, it's silly. Yeah, it's a gag. But it gives me a sample of your audio so I can analyze it and make sure that you're getting the information you need to help you get your sound the way it's supposed to sound. That's the best 25 bucks you are ever going to spend. Everybody says that you should be charging more. And I'm like, well, maybe, but in the meantime, it's to get you into the get getting you into the fold. Exactly. So right. So we're this is what we do. Go on over to one of our websites and and work with one of us and get your sound the way it's supposed to sound. So all right, we're done with Plug-A-Pelusa, which, by the way, is what this show was always been about for the past 12 years. But it's time now for George's tech update. Take it away, Mr. Wittem. Everybody know who that guy is? That's the guy from Apple. That's Tim Apple. Tim Apple, after the presentation today had and come on, Tim, say it. That's right. One more thing. Apple had one more thing today after they showed us all their brand new, very high-end expensive Macs, like the Mac Pro, the new Mac Pro for $7,000, the Mac Studio for $4,000, the MacBook Air 15 inch, which was compelling to me because that's actually a computer I would use. And I do use now in 15 inches for $1,300. And then they came out with this thing called Apple Vision. Oh, what is Apple Vision? And it looks like this. It looks like an Oculus. Yeah, it's kind of like an Oculus. It has that kind of form factor. It looks a bit like ski goggles, actually, when it's being worn. But this is what their vision of what an AR slash VR goggle would look like. And, well, obviously, we're not going to watch the whole thing because it's about a 45-minute presentation. But if this is exciting and interesting to you and you want to know more about what Apple thinks we should be wearing in the near future, 2024 and beyond, because it doesn't come out until then, by the way. This is still vaporware. But it's their vision of what this might be.  This is the really crazy thing. That is not actually, you're not looking at her eyes visually through the screen or through it like a translucent screen.  You're seeing a digital representation of the person's eyes. It's really weird. And so why is that a thing? Because they want you to be able to make eye contact with somebody who's in the room.  How about that? A lot of the purpose of using this thing is to actually be able to interact not only with your computer and video that's around you, but also interact with people in the room with you. So if someone comes into the room and sits down with you, it will show the person that you're doing something by showing like a little graphic display. So like on the front of the unit right now, it's showing this little display showing that you're not here right now. You are in another world looking at your computer, your virtual computer screens, right? And you can have all these virtual displays arrayed around you. But as soon as someone walks in, it knows there's someone in the room and they come out of the mist and all of a sudden they're in the video with you. It's crazy, man. That's weird. I can see the practicality, but somebody at Apple was thinking about this and said, let's do this. The thing that we don't know, one is, one, will you get motion sickness? There's about 10% of people that use these things get motion sickness. And two, are you going to wear this thing on your freaking head for hours at a time, right?  And also, $3,500.  So it's essentially another computer you're wearing on your face. It can show your desktops. It can show your screen of your desktop computer. So it can be like another display, but it's really its own computer. So it can be showing you video content. You can watch movies. It's got Atmos surround, it's got their Atmos surround processor for surround sound. It's a 3D display. So if you're watching the way of water, it's literally 3D. It's nuts, right? So anyway, who's going to buy this? I have no idea. People with a deep wallet, deep, deep wallet who want to try out the newest craziest thing from Apple. That's who's going to try it. But we'll see. And it's coming out in a while. But anyway, they have a lot. The only computer, like I said, I would probably consider to be really relevant to you guys is going to be for sure the MacBook Air 15 inch. The new studio computer is four grand and it's got far more processing power than any voice actor would need. And people ask me all the time, which Apple computer would you buy for a voiceover studio? I'd say just pick one. I mean, literally any of them starting $599 for a Mac mini will be the fastest computer that you've likely ever used. If you're coming from a Windows or an older Mac. Yeah, because OS is the operating system is an operating system with a Mac. You're just it's just it's a different form and function. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's kind of mind boggling. Anyway, that's what's coming from Apple. And go ahead and watch. Go to Apple dot com and watch their two hour keynote if that's of interest to you. I've also got a new microphone thanks to Mike McGonigal, who's one of our one of our folks. You know that Dan knows and I know he knows the guys at Earthworks mics. And so he got me one. And this is this is it. This is the Earthworks ethos. And yes, it's a broadcaster mic. However, it's a broadcaster mic that sounds really good. Like really studio grade audio. Like it's high fidelity. It's condenser and it sounds. Well, you guys are hearing it now. It's a really nice sounding microphone. And you know, when these came out, they were 700 bucks. Now they're like under four. They're like in the 369 range, I think. So way more, way more affordable. Just a few real quick bullet points. You guys, I have a whole 10 minute long video about this on the George the Tech YouTube channel. You can watch it if it's interesting to you. But the quicky ones is, is it's made of stainless steel. So this thing is quite dense and heavy. In fact, when I first picked it up, I was shocked at how heavy it is. And what's really weird is, considering how big and bulky it is, the capsule inside is really tiny. It's like a 10 millimeter capsule. I'll mute the mic for a second while I unscrew the grill so you don't hear too much noise. Check this out. Yeah, this is fascinating. It's somewhat reminiscent of an SM7B, but only it's a condenser mic. All right, let's hear it. Yeah, it's meant to be competing with the SM7B and those other broadcast style mics. But that's the capsule. Little tiny thing. That's a little teeny, teeny, teeny, tiny thing. It's really small, but that's what Earthworks does. Their microphone technology is all based around micro or very small capsules, as opposed to larger. Why? Well, it's a different philosophy on how to design a microphone. Smaller capsules can react more quickly to sound because they have less mass. And that very, very, very fast reaction time is what can help them have a very low, very, very minimal color. So when you want a mic that has extremely low distortion and color and you want the honest sound of your voice, this is a mic that will be able to do that. And anyway, it's just a really nice and good looking microphone. Feels good. And the triad orbit mount that it comes with. It's awesome. It comes with the triad orbit. It comes with this. This is like a $50 mount. And it comes with it. And it's internally shock mounted. So, you know, when I beat on it, it's because the whole arm is resonating a little bit. But if I damp the arm, the mic is internally shock mounted. It's internally shock mounted. And when you add this back on, it actually has a double layer pop screen. And all this stuff can be removed and cleaned as well. So if you get this thing dirty somehow, this comes out, you can clean it. This can be cleaned.  But as you can see with crop plopper, mic plopper, plopper, plopper, mic placement. Plopper, plopper, plopper. Yeah, well, can you pop it? Oh, heck, you can.  But with good mic technique, let's say I put it way over here. Way, pop, pop, pop, way out of the pop zone. It still sounds, has it good presence sound? Present sound, right? So anyway, very interesting mic. Very different from the normal shotgun mics and the side address mics that we use and recommend so often. And just a different thing to try out. So anyway, that's the earthworks. What else do I have? Oh, another show and tell. I got acoustical panels from a company I saw at NAMM called Proso Acoustic. And here's one of them. Hey, it's not my pleasure. Hi. It doesn't look like much from the front. It just looks like a normal fabric wrapped acoustical panel, right? Right. What's interesting about them is a few things. Well, first of all, what's interesting is what's on the inside. And these have a very interesting visual thing to show you on their website, prosoacoustic.com. It shows you the core of what's inside the panel. Oh, is this a little slide? Acoustical baffles and stuff. Right. So this is not just a simple sound absorber with rock wool. It's actually got a diffusion layer behind the rock wool. And the theory behind that is, is when sound goes in, some of it's going to pass through the rock wool and hit this diffuser layer behind it. When it hits the diffuser, the sound will then be shunted off in another direction, right? It will send it off one way or the other. Well, when the sound comes off the diffuser in an oblique angle off to the edge, it's going to be passing through more of the absorber, the rock wool. So the idea is that you get more performance from a thinner panel. That's the theory. In practice, does it make sense? Is it more effective than just thicker rock wool? I'm not sure yet. Because I have to do some tests. I will be putting these in the Studio Bricks booth and playing around with them a bit. But they have a few other interesting features like the... Why don't I just knock on the floor? Nothing too expensive. Oh, a water bottle. Nothing. The fabric on the back of this thing can be removed really easily and you can rewrap the panel. So they use sort of like that screen, window screen thing, right? And there's a groove around it. So you can pull this window screen out and if the fabric gets dirty, you can wash it and put it back on. If you want to get a new look, you get new fabric, you can change the color, you can get printed fabric, put that on and have custom designs and you can do all that yourself because it has this groove where you can change out the fabric. Really cool. Really thoughtful. And it's got a really nice French cleat style mounting bracket. And even more surprising to me is if you type in into Google, the first retail store is Home Depot. They sell them through Home Depot, which surprised the heck out of me. I'm sure it did. So Home Depot, Sweetwater, anyway. So a new product that, new to me, not super new to the marketplace, but new to me, and I'll do a little playing around with it. I've had them for a little while, so I just want to introduce you to that. And last but not least, just an update on the Passport VO. Mike Goodman from Sentrence is back from Europe after he's been doing a bunch of trade shows. And so now he is getting into the nitty gritty of locking down the circuit design, sending it off to the manufacturer of the boards themselves that populate and create the little circuit boards. And then they'll be sending those back and he'll be building the unit into the chassis, which will look a lot like one of these things. Then we'll get our hands on one and test it and sign off, hopefully, on the first go-around. And as long as everything works exactly as designed, then we'll get to finally get them shipped in quantity in the fall. We're still saying fall. So fingers crossed. It ain't summer yet. So it ain't summer yet. And there are still some of that 100-unit batch available. If you do end up saying I want to be part of that 100-unit batch, that ships in the fall, then please do use the coupon code V-O-B-S when you check out. And we would appreciate that.  So anyway, that's it for me. And Dan, more about mics. Yeah. In my basic basics this week, there was a lot of misunderstanding about microphones. Especially, and the Earthworks one there is an excellent example. Because there seems to be a lot of people out there who were sending me audio and they're like, well, I'm using an RE20 or I'm using an SM7B. And my immediate question is, is who told you to do that? Because it certainly wasn't George or I. People are getting information from everywhere. And as I always say, everybody is an expert in one voiceover studio, their own. And what works for them may not be what works best for you. Which again is why you need to work with somebody who really understands what your room is supposed to sound like. Because to me, everything is physical. You know, there are other guys that are going to say, oh, well, we can do all these filters and we can do all this stuff and we can shape the sound. I can ascribe to that kind of stuff in certain situations. But when you're starting out, it's so important to just sound like you. And in the environment in which you're recording. But that brings us to the topic about microphones. What microphone should you use? The question that we get the most is, well, it's a part A and part B. What's the best microphone for voiceover? And B, the one that drives me absolutely bananas is, what's the best microphone to make me sound the best? What's going to sound make my voice sound the best? The fact of the matter is, I mean, a little bit of a reality check here. When you're talking to other people, one, you're not talking to them over a microphone.  And there's a number of factors that go into what you perceive when somebody's listening to you. It's the acoustics of the room, it's how far away you are, that sort of thing. So it's important to realize that why are there so many different microphones and why do people keep saying that, well, this will make you sound great or this one makes me sound great? The fact of the matter is, if you're a good voice actor, no matter what your voice sounds like, if you're a good voice actor, if you understand proper microphone technique, if you're a studio, if your booth is acoustically the way it's supposed to, very little sound coming in, very little reverberation because you're using good sound panels, that sort of thing, it doesn't matter what studio condenser mic you're using, unless it's a super duper cheapo. For example, we don't want to, wait, we have to get my thing on here, not yours, George. I guess it's the same, George. The.tech, when in reality, we want to go to the other one, which is homevoiceoverstudio.com, since I'm talking right now. Anyway, there's no mic that's going to make you sound better than another one, unless you're buying a very expensive microphone and what does a very expensive microphone do to make you sound great? It makes you and everything around you sound great the way it sounds.  You want something that is going to be not so sensitive that it's going to pick up everything.  And how much money do you have to spend on that? Well, if you spend a thousand, you're going to get a microphone that's going to hear everything. Depending on the type of microphone you get. But if you spend over $150, maybe I'm going to put the price point up to maybe $200. Anything over $200 in a studio condenser, Mike, no matter what the manufacturer, it's going to do the job. It's going to hear you as you exist. Now, are there little bits of coloration in certain microphones? Yes. Why are there so many different microphones? Because they have a lot of different uses. And most of it has to do with music production, which has nothing to do with voiceover. Now, you've heard me use several different microphones on this show. Right now, I'm using a Mojave MV5 or 50. What is it? What does it say on the box? It's a 50, I think. We use the Harlan Hogan VO1A, which is a great microphone. And we use 416s. And what's the one you use? The Audio-Technica one. That's the... Well, there's a couple. Yeah, there's the Audio-Technica 875R. 875R. Oh, wait, not that one. This one. This is a $180 mic. There's the AT2035, which is a $150 mic. This would be the cheapest mic I can recommend. Right. But yeah, you have one right there too. There's the 875R. This is going to be the official Jeff Holman mic when we return to the studio. Yeah, this is a shockingly good microphone. Shocking. Shocked. Shocked. Shocked. Yeah.  If someone says you need...  U87s are fabulous microphones. But the reason they're fabulous microphones is because they're designed to be in fabulous places that are acoustically sterile and acoustically neutral. Don't get sucked into this vortex of what's the best microphone for me. Get one that works well. We've been using... We've still been talking about the new NT-1 from Rode, the fifth generation. I've been giving... Getting people into those, it's just a super easy microphone to use. Have you got a few people using them in the real world? I do indeed. Like I set one up in somebody's closet last week and they booked a job immediately. Was it because of the microphone or because they were... Probably because you were there setting it up for them, showing them how it works, making sure that it's in the right spot and making sure the environment they're in, it sounds really good. And that's what we do. And you'll hear about other microphones too. A studio condenser mic anywhere over $200 is going to do the job. And actually even less than that, $175, maybe $150, like the AT-2050 or the 2035. Yeah, 2035. That's kind of like my baseline. Yeah. But the thing is, is if your environment is right, you're going to sound great. Anyway, you guys can send in questions and we have a bunch of them and we're going to get to those questions right after this break. So don't go away here at VoiceOverBodyShop Tech Talk. We'll be right back after these particular commercials. So let's start off with this one. Have you noticed the specific demands of clients regarding our home VO studios? Are they at a professional level to record for broadcast? And what does that mean? To me, it means it doesn't sound bad. I've seen several now demanding cardioid condenser microphones. Some are great and cheap ones not so great. So how do you choose? It's like standing in the checkout line at the supermarket, deciding which candy or mince you want to buy. So which is right for you? Make it easy on yourself and get the Harlan Hogan Signature Series VO1A. The first and only mic design for voiceover performers. Buy a voiceover performer. The VO1A faithfully captures deep tones without sounding bassy and has a silky smooth top end that's never harsh. A perfect sound palette for both male and female voiceover performers. Get the complete kit with mic cable and shock mount now. Go to VoiceOverEssentials.com where you'll see all their great products made just for us voiceover people. It's that time of the show where I talk about source elements, the creators of Source Connect. Well, it is definitely the heir apparent to ISDN. There's some old ISDN equipment back there. That's not being used anymore and Source Connect has taken over. And why is Source Connect the one that's taken over? Mainly because it's really got there very, very early on and got its way into the workflows of many different commercial recording studios. And now that that tool is what works smoothly with their production workflow, it's what allows them to stream the audio from clients and talent all over the world directly into the track-in Pro Tools or Newendo or Reaper or whatever they're using. It is now part of a workflow and that is why if you're getting to the point in your career where you're gunning for agent represented work, possibly you're in the union or getting into the union and you're finding that that Source Connect is showing up on auditions, it's time for you to get set up. Head over to Source-Elements.com. You can get your account set up. I do recommend getting a subscription to get started. That doesn't mean you have to hold it for the rest of your life, but get started with a subscription because you'll have their tech support at your beck and call to get through all of the setup process to get it running smoothly in your studio. And I think it's worth the cost of admission to do that. Anyway, thanks Source-Elements. We appreciate it. Let's get on with the show right after. Well, hey there, heroes. It's David H. Lawrence, the 17th of VO Heroes, and I had a chance recently to talk to Amy Jo Berman. Now, who is Amy Jo Berman? She's somebody who can help you with your career. If you visit the URL below, you'll see it. Amy Jo Berman is the former head of casting at HBO. So she sits on the opposite side of the table when you're doing your auditions, whether it's on camera or voiceover. And she has a lot to say about things like AI and synthetic voices and getting paid for auditions that people have been talking about. Self-tapes at home, which we've been doing in the world of voiceover for like what centuries now. This link will take you to a place where you can register for her free webinar where you can ask any questions you want about making your auditions better.  So visit voheroes.com slash Berman. That's voheroes.com slash Berman. This is Arianna Ratner, and you're enjoying Voiceover Body Shop with Dan Leonard and George Whittem, vobs.tv. Alrighty, and we're back. We're back. We got lots of questions here. We love it when we get questions. Yeah, interesting one we got. The first one we got here was from Julio Perez. What are the suggestions? Have you considered discussing Apple's newly introduced Logic Pro for iPad in your next tech talk? Well, now we're going to talk about it. I'm fully aware you have mentioned the following in the past. The Mac OS version of Logic Pro, as well as Avid's Pro Tools, are extremely complex for those individuals looking into entering the world of VoiceOver or any type of recording, as far as I'm concerned. We've tested the iPad OS version of Twisted Wave, but do we have experienced issues with connecting to the preamp when trying to record in which the iPad cannot see the microphones and or preamp consistently? So first off, Logic Pro, way too complex.  Not specifically for VoiceOver. Why, again, would you buy a control room for a nuclear reactor to control a hamster running in a wheel? It is way too complex. Is it fun to work with? Yes. Is it cool? Can you do all sorts of cool stuff? How many of your clients are asking you to do cool stuff? They're asking you for your voice and they don't want you futzing with it. Yeah. So, you know, should you use the iPad? No, I mean, to answer the question in the most directly possible, no. That makes it easy. Keep it simple, George. I mean, maybe I'll try Logic Pro for iPad. I don't know why I would use it, but I guess what he's intimating here is, will Logic Pro for iPad be a better, will it more reliably detect an external microphone interface than twisted wave? I will believe it when I see it. I have no idea if it will. I have used iPad and iPhone to use USB devices in several different scenarios where it let me down. And so I am definitely not that excited about it. The only way I'd be excited about it is if in iOS 17, if it gives you an audio input selection for your DAW. So like if twisted wave or Logic on iPad says, choose your input and lets you choose your microphone before you hit record, then maybe I could get behind it. But until that day, it's still a hobbyist tool. To me, it doesn't feel pro. It feels like it's in a pinch thing. Some of you can get away with using, but you would not want to rely on it for any serious work, which is ridiculous because the iPad Pro, it's a $1,000 computer with unbelievable power that's still crippled by iOS. So let's see what happens with iOS 17 for the iPad and see if they give it the horsepower or the features that we need. And then I'll get back to you, Julia. So we'll see. Stay tuned. Yeah, you would think that Apple with this, the huge market and podcasting and stuff like that would have come up with a way for people to do podcasting on their iPad. And I'm sure some people are like a turnkey thing. Yeah. Having Apple literally creating the term podcast. Right. So as far as I know, I think it was Apple. It could be wrong about that. Well, no, they were designed for iPods. Right. That's where the name came from. That's right. It's odd to me. We'll see what comes with the new version of iOS. It's whatever Apple thinks is the quickest way to profit. You know, let's see what they come up with. All right. You've got the one from Sasha Van Vee. Van Vee. Hi, Sasha. I'm building a closet studio for voiceover. Can you please advise on how to affix sound, foam to the walls or folding doors? Thank you in advance. First of all, I'm not a big fan of foam. I'll get that out of the way. There are much better products that are not made of foam, such as stuff made out of rock wool or acoustical cotton. Both of those materials, you can get made in panels by ATS Acoustics. I highly recommend that. If you already have bought the foam because you bought it at foamsoundprooffoam.com or Amazon. Soundproof foam? Yeah, there's actually, that was a website, Soundproof Foam. Or you bought it from Amazon and it came compressed in a little plastic zip, you know, came compressed in some plastic and then you cut it open and expand. Whatever the way you got ended up buying foam, if you already own it, my best recommendation to you is to attach it to something else, like a thin backer, whether that be foam core or cardboard or some other kind of material you find at Home Depot. I would attach it to that first using spray glue. Which you spray outside your house.  Do it outside or in the garage or somewhere. And spray, use it properly and attach it to a backer. Now you can now easily attang that on walls, doors or whatever. Yeah, it's don't try to use velcro on the back, stick on velcro on the back of the foam, it's going to fall off. No, it's going to drive you crazy. And do not spray glue the foam directly to your walls or your closet doors. That's also a really bad idea. Especially if you went. Getting it off later will be a nightmare. And we've seen it. People like, oh, I rent this place. Oh, you're in big trouble. Anyway, Patricia Andrea asks, I have a quick question. Well, you've come to the right place. I have the same laptop as George and Dan in terms of storing files. One, do you use an external hard drive or the cloud? And two, do you name your files in a special way? Well, as a working voice actor who does a lot of storage and lots of file naming and stuff. Do I use an external hard drive? I have one. When things start to get piled up on my Mac mini, I will usually take all the downloads and throw them onto my external hard drive and free up about 20 gigabytes of space, which is significant, especially when you start recording as you're out of space. Oh, I was not paying attention. And I will upload it to an external hard drive, which I turn off because the external eight terabyte hard drive I have makes a lot of noise. And I'm like, where is that whirring from? And I stick my head under my desk. Oh, it's the external hard drive. I just unplug it and turn it off. And suddenly the little buzz of line in my spectrograph goes away. So, you know, solid state hard drives are probably a better way to go. Yeah. A while ago, I was at Costco and they had C gates, five terabyte C gates for like 129. It's some crazy deal. That's an SS gate. No, this is a spinning hard drive. Oh, OK. But it is a surprisingly quiet one. It is the modern ones have gotten much, much quieter. So they are a little bit more capable of being close to a mic. But if you need what I call online storage, which is like I'm saving files as I'm recording, then I definitely recommend solid state storage instead. And like the sand disk extreme is one of them. It's just a small, do I have one in here? I think I do. Oh, hey, right in the same place as the other drive. This is a sand disk extreme. I think that's what it's called. SSD, Sandisk Extreme Portable SSD. How many gigabytes does that have? It's a 500. This is the smallest one they make, 500 gigabytes. And then they get a one and two terabytes. These aren't that expensive. I think this is like about $100, maybe less. And it's very fast. So this is perfectly fine for storing projects you're working on. But really, what she asked about the cloud, I'll say this, my MacBook Air has reminded me now for about nine months to back it up because I haven't plugged it into a hard drive in nine months. And the reason I don't bother is because it's all in the cloud. Everything important on that computer is in the cloud. Would it be a major bummer if the thing crashed tomorrow? Yeah, it would suck because I have a lot of apps installed on there. It would take me a while. So I'm really overdue. I should plug this drive in, get a fresh time machine back up and having this here will remind me to do that. I'm going to back it up and get a fresh backup. Because that's a really nice way to restore a machine quickly if it goes down. You want to be able to have a way to do that quickly if it's your only system. So having a backup of the entire thing with a time machine is good. Having a backup all the time on time machine, if you use cloud-based storage like Dropbox, Google Drive, and iCloud, it's not nearly as important because it's all up in there in the cloud. I use G Drive a lot, especially for video files and stuff like that. But if I need to clear stuff off of my main hard drive, I will send it to my 10 terabyte or 8 terabyte or however big this thing is. Where it's got every file I've ever had on any computer since about 1985. Except for the stuff that was on hard drives that I dropped. I mean this thing is just 5 terabyte is bigger than adding up all my old backup hard drives combined.  This is bigger than that whole cardboard box on hard drives. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. All right, Jeff Holtman's question. Go for it because it's your topic. Jeff says, my child is starting to encroach in my view. Come in here. Come in here, kid. My daughter Elijah, say hello. Say hi. Hi. Hello. Hey, darling. Let's hear you. Hello. Anyway, she's here. She's here with me for the week. Jeff asks, let's see, what is the advantage of those panels you talked about having a diffuser in them? I don't know yet. Jeff actually will find out. Yeah, I am long overdue in doing a proper test and review of them. And the company knows I was out of town for a while. They've been very patient for me to test and return these demo panels. But I will be testing them to tell you, as I said, the theory is that because they have a diffuser, they get better performance from a thinner material. But the panel overall is thick because of that backing on it that has that diffuser adds another inch to the thickness of the whole panel. And it adds weight because it's thick. So I'm not sure if the added weight and the thickness from the wood counteracts the thinner a thinner rock wool that's on the front, right? All of it sounds good in theory. But in practice, I have to actually try it out and I'll be keeping you guys posted. I'll probably I'll do another YouTube review video on my channel and I'll let you guys know. He said, I like that I can get them from Home Depot. I don't think you can walk into a Home Depot and buy them off the shelf. But you can probably order them online. Yeah, they're on their website. I'm guessing shipping is much cheaper. That's a good question. Check out Home Depot. It looks like they sell them in packs of eight and they're not cheap. Eight, two by two panels. Actually, is it eight, two by twos or two by fours? I think eight, two by four panels is 1,200 bucks. So they're not cheap. Nope, they better work then. Everything about the design is sound. It's just is it worth the extra cost and the extra weight for the panel? So that's what I have to experiment with. And thankfully, I have the Studio Bricks booth where I will be able to do that. So soon as I have the time, stay tuned. Alrighty, Max Goldberg just wanted to put in there that George D. Tech's rack templates are awesome, depending on what it is that you want to get done. Great for for audio books and mastering and stuff, right? Oh, yeah. Thanks for saying that, Max. Yes, you need to know the context for which they were designed. And it does not preclude you using proper mic technique. So if you're just using these by rote, like record, all I got. Like if you record, edit and then hit the stack and don't even think about my placement, it's going to sound like crap. You still have to use proper mic technique. You still have to put the mic in the right place. You still have to make sure acoustics are considered. You still have to do those things, right? If those things are considered, the stack will take a raw file and make it sound more like a finished produced file. And if that's what your client is looking for, a stack or a rack or effects chain or a preset or whatever is going to be an advantage to you. But recently, another compadre of ours on social media, you know, sort of called not me out specifically, but sort of called out the use of stack. Stacks and saying, you know, like a lot of times I'll talk to actors and I'll have to undo and explain to them why they shouldn't be using it. And the bottom line was he is working with major production companies that are well, let's put this way. He is a producer and an engineer. So he doesn't want to hear all that processing, right? He doesn't need it. He is doing it, right? But there's a huge amount of the work that's out there that doesn't have an engineer or producer. You, the actor are stuck doing it. A lot of medical narration, a lot of e-learning, a lot of corporate stuff.   So you need to know the right time to use them, the context in which it's appropriate. It is not a one size, one fix, one click fix everything solution by far. But I want to say that because I think it's important for people to understand that. But I want to say thanks, Max. Thanks for the plug. Appreciate it. Justin Ramos asks the question that we said don't ask. Which to choose, Sennheiser 416 or Neumann? Well, Sennheiser and Neumann are owned by the same people for starters. Adidas or Nike? Yeah, exactly. How far are you running? I have enough for one. Yeah, why would you need two? I also don't mind a cheap knockoff recommendation. My focus, love, is commercials, promo and video games.  Something similar, but not perfect. A mic I can put in the glove box with my iRig. I can submit quick auditions on a break. Thanks, guys. Well, why a knockoff when you can just get a good microphone for not a lot of money? Yeah. And also, you better really know what you're doing if you're going to try to record auditions in your car. Like that's, I always say, recording out of your studio is the black belt of voiceover. So if you're getting started and don't even have one of these mics or even a cheap knockoff of one of these mics, the chances of you pulling off a convincing and great sounding performance in a car, you're really not setting yourself up for success. It's going to be really difficult to start booking work that way. Especially the engine running. Yeah, you need to know so much more about what it's supposed to sound like. And you need to spend a lot of time perfecting that before you try doing this in a less than ideal situation. That's even harder. So I'm going to get that disclaimer out of the way before I start naming any mics. But a knockoff of the Sennheiser 416 that's very popular that sounds nothing at all like it? Is the Cinco D2? A lot of people like that one for some reason. Because it's 200 bucks. That's why I would much rather use the ATC 875R for 175 dollars. Yes, this sounds a bit more like a 416. And I think it sounds better than the Cinco. A lot better actually. So this would be the one I would get. This is not a knockoff by any means, but it's a really good entry point into having a shotgun style mic. So AT875R, very hard to go wrong there. Got to know how to use it though. There is technique to that. So absolutely. Yeah. I mean, yes, you can plug it in an iRig and yes, you can pull off a recording in your car. Is it going to book you work? Maybe with those pay to plays or maybe with a fiverr gig where their quality for them is not that big a deal. It's going to be tough for you to get good quality in a car. Yeah. And finally, Patricia Andrea on YouTube says, what's the name of the recycled gene material acoustic panels? What are those called? The recycled gene material acoustic panels. Well, ATS has them, they're cotton. It's a cotton material that they sell. So when you're ordering panels from them, they have an eco or ecological version of their panels. And when you're ordering it, you'll have two options. And one of the material options is cotton. And actually ATS on their website itself allows you can actually buy the raw materials. That's nothing. It's cool about cool by ATS is they have not only the panels built, but they also have a DIY panel section so you can get materials and do them yourself. So if you go over to DIY acoustic materials, click on acoustic insulation. You'll notice that scrolling down, they have acoustical cotton bats. Yeah. This is about the best deal going for $108 plus shipping. So probably 140 bucks, maybe you're getting six of these cotton bats. And you don't have to wrap these in fabric because they're cotton. Right. They may not look real great because it's just a recycled material. But man, you get six of these and put them on the walls of your closet or even your prefab booth. And it's going to sound way better than any foam. And because it's cotton, you don't have to worry about it getting in your lungs, giving itching your skin. Nothing. So these are, I think, one of the best. This is sort of like a secret, no longer a secret. But this is like a secret to getting great acoustics with made out of cotton for way less than getting prefabricated panels. Yeah. Old towels can work too. Go to Goodwill or something and buy old towels. Yeah. I mean, by the time you buy enough old towels to make the equivalent of six of these two by four foot panels, I don't know. That's going to be a lot of towels. That's going to be a lot of towels. Yeah. In case of a flood, you're in good shape, though. It's tough to beat. But anyway, yeah, that's what I would recommend. Yeah. It's amazing. So much stuff out there that you can do is DIY. Yeah. And when you're starting out, you do, you use the materials you have as opposed to investing in expensive stuff to make sure that you're getting it right. And if, you know, nobody needs to see how the sausage is made. If it sounds good, it is good. There you go. Alrighty. Well, thanks for all your questions. Again, if you want to, if you want to send us a question sometime during the week, something comes up, all you have to do is go over to email us questions at theguysatvobs.tv. Real simple. Any question at all with home voiceover studios or the voiceover business, you can email us there, theguysatvobs.tv. Alrighty. Well, all right, we're going to wrap things up right after these important messages. So don't go away more to come right after these particular commercials. Let me go there. Let me find it. Where is it? It's right here. It's we're going in the last break, so we're going here. Your dynamic voiceover career requires extra resources to keep moving ahead. There's one place where you can explore everything the voiceover industry has to offer. That place is voiceoverextra.com. Whether you're just exploring a voiceover career or a seasoned veteran ready to reach that next professional level, stay in touch with market trends, coaching products and services while avoiding scams and other pitfalls, voiceoverextra has hundreds of articles, free resources and training that will save you time and help you succeed. Learn from the most respected talents, coaches and industry insiders. When you join the online sessions, bringing you the most current information on topics like audio books, auditioning, home studio setup and equipment, marketing, performance techniques and much more. It's time to hit your one-stop daily resource for voiceover success. Sign up for a free subscription to newsletters and reports. It's all here at voiceoverextra.com. That's voiceoverextra.com. You know, if you're a beginner in the voiceover business and we know that a lot of you out there are tuning into our show because you want to learn how to record, write and get things right. But one of the other things you have to have as a voice actor is a website. Now, you can go to an expensive webmaster and spend thousands of dollars and then any time you need something updated, you spend more money trying to get them to add a comma or add some color change or something along those lines. When you have a voiceover website, there's a number of elements that you have to have. One, your name. Two, your demos. And three, how to contact you. Other than that, you don't have to go hog wild with all sorts of stuff. Oh, I want it to, I want it to have some animation going across. I want people to come to my website and be entertained. They don't. I mean, sometimes it can be or that's unique. But you don't want to distract the people coming to your website from the reason that they came there, which is to hear your voice and how you deliver copy. So how do you get a website up really quick? Because you got to have one and you got to have one today. Go over to voiceactor.com. That's voiceactor.com where we have templated websites. And that means you can go in there. You can see where you can put your picture. You can put where to put your demos and how to have your contact information on there. And with these templates, you can customize them the way you want. Change the color, put the picture where you want. And they've got a bunch of different templates that make getting your website up and on the internet really easy and real fast. And you can start off with a free account and get it on the internet.  So go over to voiceactor.com to get your website up and running right this very minute. We are the World Voices Organization, also known as WOVO. We're the not-for-profit industry association of freelance voice talent. VoiceOver is a complex entrepreneurial business. WOVO is there to promote the professional nature of voice work to the public, to those already established in their voiceover practice, and to those who want to pursue voiceover as a career. Membership benefits include a supportive and creative community, a profile and demos on voiceover.biz, our searchable directory of vetted professional voice talent, our exclusive demo player for your personal website, our mentoring program, business resources and our video library, our annual WOVOCon conference, a fun and educational weekend with other members, with the chance to learn and network, webinars and great speakers, and weekly social chats with other members around the world. If your world is voiceover, make WOVO part of it. World Voices Organization. We speak for those who speak for a living. You're still watching VLBS? All righty. Well, if you're still watching, thank you for still watching. Anyway, that's going to do it for us this week. Next week on this very show, we will have the one and only Hugh Klitsky. Who's Hugh Klitsky? Hugh Klitsky will talk about how to get your voiceover demos right. He is a really good director and he understands how to make your demos sing. Excellent. Yes. So that'll be a very interesting discussion. So we're looking forward to that. Let's see here. Who are our donors of the week? We've got Grace Newton. We've got Christopher Epperson. Robert Liedem. Stephen Chandler. Casey Clack. Jonathan Grant. Tom Pinto. Greg Thomas. A Doctor Voice. Antland Productions. Martha Kahn. 949 Designs. Sarah Borges. Phillip Sapir. Brian Page. Patty Gibbons. Rob Ryder. Shawna Pennington-Baird. Dom Griffith. Trey Mosley. Diana Birdsall. Aria Mackis. And Sandra Mann-Willard. You can donate to the show and help things be technically perfect. That's why we do it. So you want to maintain the show, you can be part of the part of the action and get your name mentioned every week. Tonight, we have to mention, if you don't help with your Home Voiceover Studio, if something's broken, or you want to learn it properly, how to record properly, you can talk to one of us. You can talk to me over at homevoiceoverstudio.com or George at... And our team. Yes. At georgev.tech. Don't forget to use V-O-B-S Fan 10 for 10% off at checkout. Alrighty. We need to thank our sponsors for whom the show never would have existed. Harlan Hogan's Voiceover Essentials. Voiceover Extra. Source Elements. V-O-Heroes.com. VoiceActor.com. And WorldVoices.org. The Industry Association of Freelance Voice Talent. And yes, I'm the president, not just a client. Alrighty. Also, Jeff Holman for a great job in the chat room tonight. Thank you. Thank you, Jeff. He's out there. And Sumer Lino, who's not even here, but she's here in spirit. And of course, Lee Penny, simply for being Lee Penny. And the best one there is. Yeah, absolutely.  Look them up. You'll find just one. Anyway, look, this is not a very good business for people who are not experienced at VoiceOver or at recording. You have to learn it. You got to be good at it if you want to succeed. And if you want to succeed, you got to talk to one of us because we're the ones that know how to tell you how to do it right. But the bottom line is, if you're in VoiceOver and you want your recording to be where it's supposed to be, we have the philosophy of, if it sounds good. It is good. I'm Tan Leonard. And I'm George Woodham. And this is VoiceOver. Body Shop. Or V-O-B-S. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Hey, there's Jeff. Hey. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Tech Talk. Alrighty. Hey, we'll see you all next week with Hugh Klitsky. Have a good one, everybody. See you. That was good, Jeff.