allowed to do it. Perhaps it's my privilege to do so rather than having to do it. I may hear as the Austrian Chancellor here, but I'm also speaking to you as a European. And I'm a European who is grateful for the fact that I can live in Europe, and I'm also grateful that I grew up in Europe. And as a European though, who is mindful of the fact that everything that we like, freedom, security, well-being is not something you can take for granted elsewhere. And also as a European, which has been thinking about these changing times, Brexit, Trump, China, as you've just said. And these are going to impinge on the role of Europe in the world. And given my age, perhaps I would also say I'm just 32 and I grew up in Austria. And I think you could say I belong to a generation from Central Europe, which really saw something as war and violence as something which was a long way from us. Where we saw the rule of law, where we saw human rights as being something that we took for granted, where you could actually develop yourself in full freedom, you could choose your own educational path and do what you wanted to do. And this was something that we just took as part of the world. And if things went wrong, then there was a social safety net if you needed it. And what I've just said, perhaps that might be something that you're all used to in this room. But if you look around the world, then you can realize very quickly that what we take for granted is in fact something internationally speaking, that is an amazing privilege. And it is something which happens in seldom. And I was a foreign minister in recent years and I traveled a great deal. And when I was traveling, I was always aware of the fact that what we take as normal in Central Europe is something that is just a distant dream. And therefore, if you look at a younger generation in Europe, that not only do we want to safeguard what we've got in Europe, but we want to also help those who live elsewhere to improve their living conditions so that they can realize that dream. And as a foreign minister in recent years, I also saw that the world is speeding up, that changes are coming at pace, and there's a real global competition and that progress is happening more quickly. And this means that the role of Europe is not something that would necessarily stay as is over the long term. There are countries which are to become the biggest economy in the world, China, for instance. There are smaller states, smaller than such as Singapore and Israel, which are smaller than Austria. And not only are they catching up on Europe, they're actually overtaking Europe to some extent. And we as the European Union are good at setting standards on democracy, on rule of law and human rights. But when it comes to innovation, growth and wealth creation, then we don't seem to be those setting the standards anymore. And I think we should be clear that only a strong and robust Europe can make an international contribution. And only if we have economic success will we be able to put across our principles such as human rights, democracy and so on. And I think as competition gets harsher, we shouldn't take a step back from it. I think what we should do is to try and improve. And perhaps I could just share a few ideas with you on this, areas where I think there's room for improvement. First, I think we have to do our homework. And now there are some countries and this is what you've seen. If you think about Spain, Finland and Ireland and what happens that they just jettison the old ideas over Europe, that is to say higher taxes, more bureaucracy and a higher debt. And these countries have shown that there's another approach. And what they've done is they've got a comparatively robust economy now. And they have got rising wealth. In recent years in Austria, we have also tried to go against that old concept. We have tried to bring down the tax burden. And we are trying to reduce regulations. And we are also trying to change our debt policy after 60 years. Finally, we ought to budgetary surplus and not more debt. And this means that we become more competitive. It brings in investments and we're proud if it doesn't go to Germany, but it comes to Austria instead. Particularly if it's big German companies coming to Austria, it makes us very proud. And this also means there's greater freedom for the individual, but greater freedom as well for entrepreneurs. In line with that homework that has to be done nationally, I think it's important that at European level that we resolve all those crises which are hanging over everything at the moment. Now we're looking at focus, we're looking at Brexit, migration, trade conflicts with the United States. I think what we should do is bring those crises behind us. So mount them so that we can start looking ahead. In migration, I think we've made quite a bit of progress. There is 95% fewer arrivals than in 2015. So if we are able to work together with North African countries and we can step that up, and if we can make sure that those countries do more rescues in the Mediterranean and to take people back, and not just Europe doing the rescue, and then also at the time when they rescue them, giving them a ticket to Central Europe, if we continue that effort, then I think we would stop the smugglers. We would take away the bases of their business and I think we would improve. So Brexit, I would plead that we do everything to avoid a hard Brexit, but this would not only damage the UK, but it would be very damaging to Europe as well. So I do trust that a majority, we don't have a plan A, at least the plan B would work, and we have a plan B for the UK Parliament, and if that doesn't happen, then I think we should have the courage to defer the date of Brexit so as to make sure that there is no hard Brexit. And now, looking at the trade dispute with the United States, I do hope that we can resolve this before it gets worse, because neither we nor the Europeans have any interest in this, and we're not going to benefit from it. Now, also there are other crises as well and we would appeal that we stick to the rules that we've set ourselves. What we tend to do is that we set a lot of rules and regulations, but those which are essential, then perhaps we don't take them too seriously. Now, if people don't stick to Maastricht criteria, that means there's over-intendedness, and this could mean that it can jeopardize the if people don't stick to the Dublin arrangements for migration without bringing in something in better, then there's chaos rather than good order. And if some of the basic tenets such as democracy, the freedom of the press, and rule of law are questioned, then we would be relinquishing something which is the very basis of what we do. Therefore, I trust that in all of these areas, we would get better and get quicker. But what I'd like to say today is, and I think just not only should we obey rules and solve crises and become more ready to make decisions, but I believe we need a new consciousness as Europe. Now, if you travel wherever you are in Davos Brussels, then we do tend to have a slightly negative, a slightly depressive way in which we're tackling things as Europeans. And I think that's the wrong way to go about things. We're in a faster world. We're in a tougher world, really, in terms of competition. And I think we as Europeans and as the EU to be more self-confident, we have 500 million people. That is a quarter of the world economy. And we have done humanitarian work and supported development, and we're the biggest contributor to that worldwide. And I think what we need here is that we need to set higher ambitions in the auto industry, for example. And we want to have the same strength as we have with electric cars as we do with the internal combustion engine. And we should not say that we've been beaten there. And we should work together across borders so that we can catch up in those areas where perhaps we've lagged behind in recent years. And I would say this, particularly saying this in Davos, we should also be a place where people can have startups. We need new business startups. We need innovation. And we don't want to lose out there. Europe, and I think we would all agree on this, is the best place in the world to live. We have a very good starting point for this. What we now is to be a bit more self-confident. I'm not just talking about being too proud. I'm certainly not talking about nationalism. But I think there needs to be a healthy self-confidence here. And that is always to be linked with the gratitude that we're able to live here and a sense of responsibility vis-a-vis other parts of the world. But it's only if we have that confidence, if we set high ambitions and we do that so that we can stay stronger, not only will be successful in Europe, but we will make a world contribution as well. Thank you. Question. Thank you, Chancellor. Thank you for that keynote address. Thank you for your input. And as someone from Brussels, thank you for that appeal to be more self-confident and to be in a better mood, basically. My question is, now I think you correspondents, you journalists have plenty of self-confidence. Okay. Now, I'll give you an example. You spoke about working across borders and talking about artificial intelligence. Why don't we have that cooperation already? And secondly, who is willing to look at Europe and start in Europe when you might have low-framing fruit elsewhere? Well, we're a small country and we're prepared to do this. And I would just tell you why. Now, in a lot of areas, we depend on the strength of other countries. For example, let's take the auto industry. The German car industry is certainly essential to German economy. But it's also a very important industry as well, because our supplier industry, which is very strong, is very dependent on German companies. And of course, it doesn't help us if batteries are built elsewhere in the world or if electronic vehicles are built elsewhere in the world. It gives us nothing. And therefore, let's say, perhaps the German car industry is something that should be working on this. Now, if Germany lags behind, then that's going to have a knock-on effect on our supply industry. Question. Are you saying with the German car industry is ruining the future of Austria or your future competitiveness? No, no, absolutely not. No, I think when I spoke about this healthy self-confidence, that means we have need better support for our business and for industry. Now, I think the way in which we actually work on this in Europe, I'm not just about Germany, but let's say in the German-speaking countries, how we actually deal with these issues facing our industry. And now that might not happen elsewhere in the world. I can't imagine, for example, that China with Chinese companies, which are so central as they are in, as the auto industry is in Germany and Austria, that they would deal with them in the way that we do. Now, I think this is a different approach. And I say that we have to focus on our own industry. So I'll give you another example. I think we have to move away. This idea of always cheap is good. I think we have to talk about the quality is good. And I think we need these infrastructure projects in Europe. But we shouldn't say that they have to be done at the same price as they would in Chinese companies. I think sometimes we punish our countries twice. We have a great regulations to the next world. We have higher taxation than elsewhere in the world. And after all that, then they don't give the best bid when we're doing a procurement. And that's not fair on them either. And I think we have to have a certain courage here. We have to really consider our own interest and put those centre stage or something negative. I'm not being nationalistic when I say that. But this would mean that we would then safeguard the strength that we need within Europe so that we can also make a contribution to the world. Question. What do you see as the legislative approach to this? Are you saying that we should change competition law? Now, you've got Eisterman and Siemens struggle. Are you saying that this is difficult? Should we say that we have political priorities here? Do you think that should come in and be allowed through? Well, there are certain European approaches to this. But there are certain measures which can be taken nationally. For example, what do you do with the investment in key industries? Do you allow them? Do you not allow them? And here it might be possible that you can perhaps have to do certain things before you can allow such support. I don't think we should really pass the buck to Brussels here. We should blame them. But I would say, though, that we have to a little bit look at our general approach. Question. I think you said quite correctly that Europe is a good place to live. But as you've seen at summits, you feel sometimes that the gaps are getting greater. There were some great misunderstandings. I was at another discussion with the Marovietzky downstairs and from the Netherlands. And you get the feeling here that there's a slightly harsher tone now. Now, you had the President of the Council for six months. How did you see that from the inside? And how can we bring people back together? I mean, or don't we have to? No, I think this is a bit of a problem, really, quite a series. And I think this is quite a difficult problem. There's a bit of a vicious circle here with politics and the media, how we actually deal with each other. And I think there's no longer that common denominator, perhaps. And I think this is very bad for European unity and the whole project. We saw the first gaps in the financial crisis. And this was compounded during the migration crisis. And we were at this, all these quibbles about where migrants should go. And rather than focusing on protecting the outer borders, we were really sort of saying, who should accept refugees and who shouldn't accept them? And who should decide which country they should go? So and I think we were doing that. And I think that was quite risky, such an approach. And I think we allowed this to happen in recent years. And I do hope that we can get back to some common sense here. Because such, basically, this puts gaps between Europe. It creates those differences. And I see this as something as a problem. Now, I know this is something you like to talk about. But if we could look at the rule of law, you now quite clearly, there are some different perceptions, for example, in the policy, things differently to the Dutch. Now, I wouldn't like to generalize here, because Poland is more than just the current government. And therefore, I would be rather cautious in how I put this, I would not have these general assessments. I mean, you were implying that the Netherlands is better as Poland. That seems to be what you're saying. No, no, I'm just saying it's different perceptions, really. Well, Mark Rutte might be different to the head of government in Poland. But I think we have to be very cautious in how we say these things. I'm not saying that we should compromise on the rule of law. But the way in which this debate is taking place, I think, is risky. I'll give you an example. I remember I was at a meeting in Germany and the moderator said he couldn't imagine to be in the EU, where the UK and Switzerland aren't there, but countries such as Romania and Hungary are a member. So I thought, well, how do the Romanians and the Haganians in the room feel? I mean, perhaps it's okay here, perhaps there are none. But I didn't feel that he sort of felt guilty at putting it that way. But he didn't realize that it might not sound so good. And I see that as risky. I don't think we should make any compromises on democracy and rule of law. That's fine. But the way in which we discuss this, the way in which, to some extent, there's an attempt made to say the others are morally inferior. I think that's a problem. And I think there's this muddling happening, really. And what I mean is the democracy and rule of law, of course, have to be kept at any cost. But if a country is prepared to open up its borders and allow in refugees, has absolutely nothing to do with the rule of law and democracy, and in other issues as well, then I think you could say that the Eastern European countries have to be able to have a different attitude to that of Germany. And in the EU, we have to say that the smaller countries, perhaps don't think that the compromise between Germany and France is ideal. And I think this is a conversation that we have to have. Okay, question. Now, I know a lot of people in Austria, your minister, your minister in the interior recently said in Austria that the law has to follow politics and not politics law. Now, this was taken in Austria as an attack on the rule of law in Austria. What you would say as the chancellor, who has just come down clearly on the side of the rule of law and said there's no compromise. Now, I phoned him. I wasn't in Austria today. And I phoned. And I told him quite clearly what I think on this. And I think I think he understands that and accepts that. Now, in our coalition agreement, everything that has been discussed here has been very carefully enshrined. And we have a constitution, of course, about international law, European law, and international agreements, which of course have to apply. And this doesn't just go for the chancellor, this go for every member of government. Furthermore, in Austria, what we have at the moment is a discussion about what can happen when people have applied for asylum and but have committed a crime? Should they be expelled from the country? And what would then constitute an act that would justify their expulsion? And this is a question that we have. But I guess this is also something at European level as well. Now, there's something else that I think, which I'm sure is people, that's Brexit, I'm sure that's of interest to people in the room. Now, we're just 60 days from what might be hard Brexit. Can we, and I'm saying this as the European Union and EU 27 can just allow that to happen. If there might be another solution, you've got Ireland, you've got Northern Ireland, that border, and then there are no 40 billion missing from the budget. And we would have millions of Europeans either British or Europeans living there, and they wouldn't know on what basis they're living. Well, I don't want to over exaggerate this. I think now we do have to try to avoid a hard Brexit that we don't want that to happen. And I would also like to say that the EU and also the member states of it have done all that they could to prepare for this scenario. In other words, now I don't want I don't want to sort of risk a headline saying it's not going to get that bad. But I think we are prepared for that scenario. And in parallel to that, I think we have to do everything to avoid it's happening. Now, you said, can we just allow it to happen? Well, I don't think anyone just wants it to happen. No one's just standing idly by. So I think we can say everyone's against we stand shoulder to shoulder against hard Brexit during the negotiations and also at this stage as well. There is agreement between the EU 27 between the Council of Commission and the European Parliament. And as a correspondent in Brussels, you'll know that they're rather all free agree. So I think we can say that the EU should not see itself as not doing well here. But of course, what we depended on is what is decided on in the UK. I know that Theresa May is really trying hard. I wouldn't want her to upgrade her at all. But a lot of those who are against her plans at the moment may change their opinion, particularly those who are doing it for tactical reasons. Now, you're saying that you might be prepared to defer Brexit. Now, that is to say, if the UK were to ask for it, so we would consider it. Would you say that the hard press is getting close? That might be something that we could actively offer. But the UK doesn't really do that far ahead. They don't seem ready to take a decision at the moment. Well, offers on the table. I and a number of our and Mr Barnier has said that he's in contact with the British and with Theresa May. And I think the offer has been made. So I think there's an awareness in the UK that the EU is willing to do everything to avoid a hard Brexit. Now, if it's necessary, then to defer this, of course, then the UK have to want it as well. It wouldn't be enough for us to try and defer it, despite they're wanting to leave. And therefore, the we wouldn't have enough power to do that. However self confident we might be, would you accept that even with the problem, the problems that this might cause with the European elections? Or would the European elections be the ultimate deadline? Now, I think that would have to be the final deadline really. Because if we went beyond that, if we didn't have any plan, then that wouldn't really help. And it would adjust a mobile on the agony to some extent, and it wouldn't resolve the situation. So I think if we do have a deferral, then we would need a plan as to what is to be achieved. Now, were it to go beyond the European elections, then I would say that we should go for a flexible solution. And now I know legally, they would then take part in those elections, and there might be a possibility there to go down a different track. Now, when we joined, I think we actually took members of the European Parliament from the National Parliament. But this is all a little bit speculative at the moment, though, now the best scenario would be that we use the time that we have. And if that isn't sufficient, then we would defer. But it would not be on the European elections. And well, and if, well, if that doesn't work out, we'd have to look at it again. Well, thank you very much, Chancellor. I think we had a clear plea for stronger cooperation in Europe, a Europe where we have to look at our industrial policy and our competition policy. Perhaps we need to rethink those. We have to base this on the rule of law, and we need a Europe.


That's the ultimate jack-o-ning Hey guys, this is my review for Logan the third installment of the Logan Wolverine series And we finally got a good one people Finally, and it's kind of an interesting sort of progression with the series the first one origins was awful Wolverine was good, but it was flawed and the flaws outweighed what was good about it. So it was a flawed entertaining film This one has issues, but it is a solid film. It has solid action It has solid maturity that hard are it has a solid theme and it has a solid story everything about this film is a Retribution of everything that was done wrong in the last two movies Logan is a piece of shit really not so much of a character, but literally his body. He's dying and The mutants are all gone They're living in almost not really a post-apocalyptic waste lead. We kind of got that idea, but it's really just Mexico It's the future he's hanging out with Charles who's suffering from dementia and seizures that can possibly kill everyone and He's trying to raise enough money to get on this boat to go out to sea It's more so like a failing ideal of what to do to get away But then they come across this girl who has similar traits to that of Wolverine in terms of mutant abilities And he's thrown into a mission to try and save her get her to safety whilst he does not want to This is Perfect the R works now a lot of people me included thought that when they've slapped R onto this movie that it was literally Just for the sake of doing an R rated film because Deadpool worked No, this actually is R.  The fight scenes are incredibly Graphic, I've never seen I always wondered what it would be like to see a shit ton of blood Be spilt when Wolverine's cutting up people the only ever time we ever had that was the Wolverine origins video game Well, guess what you got that video game in a movie This was such a fun ride, but it also has a lot of slow somber moments that work with the character developments There's a few twists and turns that I was expect exceptionally surprised by however There are some moments that are incredibly predictable the main villain is lackluster because he's not given enough screen time to be really developed and The conclusion is good. It's actually it is good. It's a perfect way to end the series But I feel there's still a little bit more they could have done with this film also the little girl She's badass. She's awesome. She kicks so much ass, except I can't understand what she said at the end of the movie Her accent is so harsh that I don't know why it might be because I've got a sinus infection right now Maybe it's affecting my ears, but I couldn't understand a word. She said in the final scene that she was in so Yeah, either way, I enjoyed this film It is the best one of them, but there are a lot of flaws as is common with X-Men films There are a few plot holes and there's a few predictable elements, but the maturity and the Overall product is a final is finally a good movie Something that we've wanted from the series for so long Something a Hugh Jackman has tried so hard to bring and we finally got it just took three times to get there Anyways, I'm gonna give Logan a five out of seven. You guys should see it. It's probably one of the best X-Men films Made definitely recently. It's up there now like how I put mine is days of futures past X-Men 2 And now I'm kind of in between between first class and Logan. So anyway guys, that's all for me I hope you enjoyed this review. I'll see you guys next time


No, I'm saying in the Qur'an, it doesn't mention protoplasm because it's not a science book. But if it says made of water, it is an incredibly generous interpretation to suggest that you found a science book that says protoplasm depends on water and that this is confirmation of a verse in the Qur'an that says everything's made of water. It's not made of water. That's wrong. So it's not wrong, because it says on page 15 of this source that I mentioned, the direct quote here is, living protoplasm always contains a large amount of water. Contains water? Exactly. That's not made of water. It would exist without water. Do you understand the makeup of a cell? Right. The structure of a cell is not water. It can contain water. It needs the water. It can contain water. Otherwise the cell doesn't exist. This is the parade that we're going to go down, where you are so desperate to make the Qur'an right that you will massage it to fit the science.


Thank you for staying with us. You're still watching The Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. It's time to take global stories making headlines in our national dailies and joining me to review the papers is Dr. Law Mifor as a social and forensic scientist. Good morning, sir. Thank you for joining. Okay, so we're going to go straight into the papers and this morning we'll be starting with the business NG. Now, it's not the major headline, but it's a headline that I'm sure you might relate with because you're living in Nigeria and we know what food prices can be. You are in Abuja, but we're in Lagos and it's great to say that Lagos has unveiled the 25% discounted food markets. So on the business NG, it takes its arts. Lagos government unveils 25% discounted food markets. On Nature News, it takes it as Samo Lou kicks off $57 on JECO food markets and then on the punch is also there but then this time around it says consumers lament POS machine shortage at Lagos discounted food markets. So my first question is what do you think about this initiative? Do you think it's great? Of course, it's nice to know that the government is thinking for the citizens, but is it even enough? Because you know that the prices of goods and services, especially food, and food is one of the basic necessities for leaving. Food is very expensive in Nigeria at the moment. Do you think this 25% off or discounted markets that has been unveiled by Lagos state government would even have an impact for everyone and everyone can benefit from it? Yeah, well, firstly, I must recommend the government to take in such an active measure to come in the gap, intervening on the half of the Nigerian suffering the masses living in Lagos. It's something to be commended for, to be honest. Whether or not to be able to deal with the food crisis we are facing at the moment is a different matter altogether. I think Governor Sanweru is proactive and how I wish all the other governors around the country are taking similar measures, including the FCT minister. And yes, there are problems of our very natural, we are running a capitalist economy. And when you are discounting for goods and services at one point, the capitalists who sell in the same items will be going to buy off from such markets and taking to where they sell at the anomalous exhibit and prices. In capitalism, there is no morality. That is where the danger is. So the real solution will be in supply. You just have to have enough discounting 25% in one or two markets. Well, it may solve the problem to some extent, but it will certainly not deal with the entire problem. I believe that what the government ought to do is to allow food imports in the interim, even for six months, flow the markets with goods and that will fall down the prices everywhere across the country. I have about it again, even when government is doing that, they need to also look out there for orders, people who still want to buy and store and sell tomorrow at higher prices. That's the problem you have in capitalism. And yes, it promotes the production. But even in our own experience, you can see that the kind of capitalism we practice, does not even promote production. You know, manufacturing and firms are folding up and leading the country. There was a staggering and very embarrassing statistic, a few weeks ago, pointing out that as many as 767 firms closed their shops, their lives closed, they simply closed shops in Nigeria and the most of them are manufacturing companies. So you discover that while what someone who has done is commendable, it's more or less evaluated. It doesn't really deal with the issue. For me, in the long run, what we must tackle is flooding the markets across the country with foods. And the only way you can do that is to import. Yes, I understand the government, the sentiment that they do not want to encourage you to put the importation in the country, but we are faced with crisis. When you are faced with the crisis, you don't have many options. There are very unpalatable measures you will have to take that may hurt your policies in the interim, but you need those measures and food import is what it may not be all foods, but we can pick on a few staple foods like rice, beans and such and let them come in then, of course, the flaws, which you know is the base for the manufacturing of so many things including bread that has gone up to as high as one thousand five hundred nine and many places now. We just have to deal with that because the masses are dying. The income is not growing and the capacity to purchase is withering and you have more, you have also have you also have what you call a money illusion. You appear to have more money, but you don't have the goods to purchase with even a few months ago, the price of bread was five hundred nine and nine. It is one thousand five. It means that the cost for purchasing bread as triple that in itself is a big problem. So and your income is not it's not a growing in such a geometric proportion. So it is not growing and inflation is wiping off the little you have. Then you have real crisis. So again, of course, they need to target, like I said, targeted imports. It doesn't have to mean opening the nation's borders and asking people to import whatever they can or whatever they want. No, we need to pick on specific things that will address the food crisis in the country. And of course, they really do something about facing facing a return to production in the country. We are no longer producing. I talked about seven hundred and sixty seven and a confidence that a full day and full day the shops left the country or within the country, but no longer producing. The question is why it is the cost of doing business. The electricity is not there. Nigeria is big as we are. We are condemned to share in a about three thousand megahertz. But the South Africa that is about it's not even up to one quarter of an ideal population. South Africa is about four forty million people, but they generate up to five thousand five from fifty thousand megahertz of electricity. You can imagine that Ghana, Ghana is about 30 million people. And they generate to five thousand megahertz of electricity. Ghana here, you know, so you can see that until you deal with the issue of power, you can't really deal with the issue of production. And again, particularly because you talked about food crisis. Don't forget about the reason why the farmers are no longer going to farms. You know, it's because of insecurity. The killer headsmen have taken over over our forests and the farmers can no longer go to go to farms. In many places, they have to pay terrorist bandits to access their farms. When they till the soil and plant, they pay them again to be able to harvest. You know, that is going on in the country is no longer a secret. It's not speculation. It's all over the place that the bandits, the killer headsmen, the terrorists have driven them to walk the farmers out of the farms. So you deal with these two issues. You deal with the electricity. You deal with the security. And Nigeria has a problem with the more than more than is solved by more than half of the way, because these are the two issues that have kept the country backward, creating the crisis we are facing. You can't find food in the markets because the farmers are not producing anymore. That's the truth. And the government is saying we don't want to import. It won't have the quality to do that. Okay.  Let me butt in here a little bit. There is another headline that talks about Kogi rivers and quara record highest food prices in Nigeria. And that's the NBS report. So we're seeing this all over Nigeria. There's obviously, we cannot deny that there's a food crisis, but looking at your recommendation, talking about importing, is that not going to even weaken the Naira a little bit more? Because at the end of the day, if we have to import, we would have to use probably the dollar or exchange our Naira for whatever currency we need to buy from. I understand you're saying some staple foods and all of that. But I'm just thinking about the economic effects on this. So wouldn't that, you know, weaken the Naira as it could be? And what we're trying to do is make sure that we're growing more produce and even exporting to other countries so that we're growing the Naira. So what will happen in a situation like that? That is what I said in the interim. You do that in the interim. It doesn't have to be a long term solution. You can create a six months window to enable food coming to the country because you don't have. You know, within that window, you declare a full emergency in the area of insecurity to enable you clear the forest and the farms so that the farmers can go back. No matter what you plant, you need at least three months. Even for ordinary maize, you need like three months to be able to harvest. In that, within that three months, how do you survive? That is the question here. It is sometimes when my wife returns from market and gives a account of what she has done, you know, almost breaking down in the other stuff.  You understand that? You know, I, any income my wife does and we find it so tough. So what happens to families that don't earn enough? And they are a majority. So you need to think about those people. That is what I said. Bring in rice, bring in maize, bring in beans, bring in floors to enable the people that produce the spaghetti and so on and so forth to still be in market. You can't even find a spaghetti anywhere anymore. You want to find the surprise that the spaghetti you bought seventy-five Niger a few months ago is not going for five hundred, seven hundred Niger. You know, think about the students, the survival spike on Indomie, that's what the survival Indomie and bright. So you can't find those anymore. So how do they survive? That's my concern. So even if the mayor of the dollar, we take a beating, you know, the beat, if you regulate the process and decide how to deploy the little dollar you have, it's just what it. I tell you, it's really what it, you know, and part of the problem we have in the dollar to Naira crisis is simply because the economic policies of government as far as Naira flotation is concerned are very wrong. You cannot float your currency. You don't do that. I'm not aware of any country. The water flows, leaves it's a currency to divide grays of the market forces, demand and supply and order. Who does that? So that is the policy by the team. I'm not an economist, but I don't really need to be an economist to understand that if you are not exporting much, you can't float because Naira, we have to stand on a base. The base the Naira should stand on, they are two, not perhaps three. One is a standard reserve. What is that? What do you have as a standard reserve? Part A, five billion dollars. What is that? A country like China has a standard reserve of about one trillion dollars. And you leave me or Naira to go and fight with the Chinese. You are how I don't get some of these crazy policies. Because if you say you want to leave your your your currency to buy this or market forces, what you as indirectly say if I directly say is that you want the Naira to find his level with the pound, with the euro, with the yuan, with all of them. And he has nothing. You have no export base. You're not exporting anything beyond the crude oil. When I was looking at 30 figures from the Bureau of National Bureau of Statistics and I was sure to find that the Nigerian export is still up to 75 percent crude oil. It means that the balance of 25 percent is all you can all you can export. And then what is that? Even if the agro-based export is wiped out completely. So you have no reason whatsoever to subject your Naira to the values of market forces. But that is what this government has done. So you discover that we are in this because the policies, theoretically, on paper may appear good, but the implementation, the realities are not there. You can't float when they're not exported. That's what I'm saying, because it is when you are exporting that you're any more foreign currency, more dollar, because the international market is more or less denominated in a dollar. You are not exporting. So you are not any more dollars beyond what you aim from the crude oil. And the market is so volatile. So why in the whole world? Why do we allow Naira flotation? Government must defend the Naira at all costs. That's the point I'm making. You don't float the Naira. You have to defend Naira. And I also believe that the foreign exchange market will have to be regulated seriously so that we know who is utilizing what. And nobody is regulating that as such. The dollar you are looking for is used as a store of value by the big people. So you find the dollar in their houses instead of in the banks. That is the truth. You know, when we were doing economics in secondary school, decades ago, one of the things we learned about money is that money has number one function, which is store of value, apart from being a medium of exchange. Naira has lost that right, that power to serve as store of value. So Nigerians, rather than keep the Naira, use the Naira to mope open, to mope open foreign currencies, dollar pound, all that they keep in their houses. OK. That's what has brought us to where we are. So if government can go moving that direction, try to use moral persuasion, use the law, use the blackmail, whatever government can do to compare people to bring up the dollar and leave it in the banks. It will be better for us. Then you come with the regulation that the banks shouldn't keep foreign currencies in excess of a specific amount. The rest of it will have to be done inside in the central bank. That way government has firm control over the late term we have. And then are located judiciously through the impulse that really means something. All right. Speaking about using things judiciously, the PDP has urged the President of Bolatino to review 2024 budget. And this is still on the business end. There's a small headline at the top that says PDP urged its President of Bolatino to review 2024 budget. Now, if you know about this story, the initial budget was 25 trillion Naira, according to Senator Ninghi. And then we get to see it being moved up to 28.7 trillion Naira. And so there's an allegation of budget padding. However, the PDP has urged President Tudubu now to review the budget. What do you think about the whole saga? And are we even spending our monies judiciously because I'm using your words right now? You know, what Ninghi did is a classic example of saying the right and the wrong way. Tudubu's budget I came to National Assembly was 2.7, not 2.5. 2.7 trillion and the National Assembly passed 2.8 trillion. What that means you have an increase cost by National Assembly to the tune of 1.7 trillion. Certainly not 3.7 trillion. Statistically, Ninghi is off the mark completely. There is no way he can prove that 2.28.7 trillion will now produce the difference of 3.7 trillion when you subtract 27.7 trillion statistically. But what he was saying was generally right. We don't have any serious budgeting system in Nigeria. And what members of the National Assembly do, which Ninghi himself is part of, is they go to the MDAs, ministries, departments and agencies, and get them to put certain projects into the budget for them, even before the budget is brought to National Assembly. So even Ninghi had them taking this route now, he would have made better sense. So what I'm saying is the budget party didn't even happen in National Assembly. Where it happened was in the MDAs before they brought the budget to National Assembly. And when they did, the National Assembly still added something to it. Whether or not the National Assembly has the right to increase, reduce the budget, it has been a subject of... Well, there's an allegation that some senators went home with about 500 million Naira each. So could that even account for the budget padding? Now, let me strengthen it. I'm not a sportsman of the National Assembly, but I've been in the Senate for about 10 years. So I know what goes on there. So when the senator went home with 500 million, the impression being created is that it's cash that is given to the senator. No, it's not. It goes back to the same issue of what you call constituency projects. All the members of National Assembly, they have an envelope of the projects they have to nominate for their constituencies to be added in the budget. That is what they are saying that the senators went home with 500 million. No, they didn't go home with 500 million Naira cash. If they did, I'm not aware of that. I don't think that is the issue. It is the envelope each senator gets to nominate projects that will be sorted in the budget for his or her constituencies. He didn't start with that, but he's been there right for the days of Obasanjo. Obasanjo fought it, he failed. And the Naira do have fought it, he failed. Google or Jonathan did, he failed. Bukhari did, he didn't try. And Tinupu is continuing with the policy. The policy of the National Assembly members nominating projects into the budget, that is that envelope, that 500 million you get. And I think what caused the crisis is that it's not every senator that got the opportunity that opportunity to nominate such projects. If you remember when the senator of Miami was speaking on the matter, he alluded to it. And there are senators who got more, there are senators who got less. All this is all to have been decided before you even implement the policy in the first place. What that means is that the ABO leadership of the Senate did not promote the the tradition of allowing the senators to nominate, to nominate. The process that I am aware of when I was there, it's a flat rate. Every senator gets that envelope. Of course, the president, the deputy, the other principal officers of the Senate, they get more. They get a lot more. Where Senator Getsay gets a 500 million budget allocation, the Senate president, they get up to two billion. So this is the kind of thing to find. But it seems that a party or not decided to allow senators to take more. And what I did at this, they caused the crisis. It's needless as far as I am concerned. And because the National Assembly does not have any serious media, they have remained the whipping boys since 1999. As we speak, I don't even know who is the director of information of the National Assembly, the chief press secretary of the Senate president, the chief press secretary of the speaker. These are the people that should be all over the place explaining to Nigerians what the whole issue is about.  Not possible. Not. So if you understand what that happens from this perspective, you will see why the Senate is angry with Nengi because he also got the opportunity to nominate a project into the budget. And he did not reject it. If he rejected it, he should have told Nigerians he didn't. That means he was part of what he was talking about. He did not nominate a project. He did. He never said he did not nominate a project. So if he nominate a project. Let's move over to some security matters. So on the punch, the major headline here says, soldiers killing. Tinnable Senate, other manhunt for killers. Troops comb warring communities. And the writers here says, President condemns attack, says DHQ has full authority to bring anybody responsible to justice. And Senate retired general's other fume demand tough actions against killers, condole with military. So I'm sure you've heard of what happened in Delta State about 16 soldiers were killed. Some of them, their bodies, about two of them, their bodies were floating in the water. Others, they were found on land. The stomachs were out. They were beheaded.  Now, in retaliation and allegedly, some people have said that these soldiers have gone back to this community and they've raised it down, you know, out of anger. But what do you think about all of this? Because initially, I would have expected that because you're in the military, you even have some form of security for yourself. But now you're seeing civilians, you know, take matters into their own hands.  So I don't know what would have happened for these people to decide to kill these soldiers. So now you're seeing even soldiers, even the military personnel, are being killed. What does that tell us about our security system in Nigeria? I want to get your thoughts on this. You know, I was joking with a friend the other day that days are coming when Nigerians will have to defend the police. You know, we may not have to be the ones to defend the Nigerian police force and not the other way around. The police is supposed to be defending all of us. But you can see that the nation's security architecture, especially the Nigerian police force, is not functioning. That is why I started with the police.  Obviously so. Because therefore a community to go on such rampage to the point of confronting the army, the soldiers that came for peacekeeping obviously not prepared for war, otherwise they would have been taken out in that manner. You know, but they were, their peaceful battle was returned with such a level of ingenious wickedness.  And they, the army gave automatic, asked them to produce the youth that carried out the or pay for it. They thought it was a job. The next, the army stormed the Uji and over 2,000 people were killed. And the community literally raised to the ground. This is the kind of thing that provokes that kind of response for the military because, you know, it's an up front. It's an up front. And whoever knows the leaders of those communities should tell them to produce the people that were responsible. They should know their and their groups. They should know them. They should name them and they release them to the military. They should do so. Otherwise, whatever they see, they take. That is it. For me, whatever the military does there, would be part of those analyzing the massacres and all those things. You killed, do you see the level of soldiers, do you know what it takes to train and produce a colonel, a major, and all the soldiers, the kids just like that. They are not only soldiers, they are also citizens of Nigeria. They are fathers. They are fathers. They are husbands. The earlier, the better. They must produce the leaders of their and their groups. Anything that is at war with another community and the group that is wedging the war on their behalf. They should know those who are leading the armed groups in those communities and name them and release their names to the military. And the earlier they do this, the better for them. And I will advise the military, you know, to continue to show maturity constraints, you know, restraints and all that. But again, I would also want to advise the military to allow itself to be ravaged. Of course not. The civilians will be running on them. Look, when we were growing up, seeing a soldier, you know who a soldier is, you understand that? A soldier, when we were growing up, you know, it was rare, very rare to see a soldier. And when you see one, you see a symbol of Nigeria. Yeah, a soldier is respected. Yes, they are awesome. They are all people whenever they appear. You understand that? And it is very rare. You don't just see them. Whenever you see them, you know there is problem, there is crisis, and they will deal with it. Right. Today in Nigeria, it has three states, keeping internal security operations, where the problem is on the military, out of 36 states. So it has made them ubiquitous, it has commonized them, it has made them appear even as ordinary as the constables that carry Libertad around. So you see a soldier, he means nothing to you All right, we hope that justice is served for the soldiers that have been killed. And obviously, we don't want the military to be rubbish, like you've said. So we hope that this doesn't even happen again, because it's quite unfortunate. And our house goes out to the families of these people, because of course, their fathers, their husbands, and their friends, their brothers, you know, they will be missed. Yes. So anyways, I want to take this final one quickly, because we're a little bit out of time, and this is on the Guardian. It says, cutting governance costs beyond our own side report. I want to get your recommendations, if we were supposed to, you know, just cut out some certain costs, because we're seeing our budget of 28.7 trillion Naira at the moment.  Well, you see, I am not one of those who are persuaded that Tenenbo is serious about cutting down the governance. The Office of the Accounting General is holding a workshop in London, as you speak, and it's an attendee. Go in there, we'll go with the staff coach, stay in the hotel, eat the meals, and all that. They're not just for it, not just advising. Even if you want some foreign experts to come teach whatever, you can fly them into the country, but they didn't do that. They instead decided to move the workshop to UK. You know, I just mentioned one instance for you to understand that this government is not into any cutting measures. They look at the size of a Tenenbo cabinet. It's the biggest in Nigeria history. It's the biggest. It's not an approach. It's not an attitude of somebody who really wants to cut down on budget. It's not cutting down on cost. It's not at all. If he wants to cut down on cost, he has to look at the cabinet and bring it down by at least half. It is true that the constitution says that every state will have to nominate somebody to the cabinet. If you know that reducing the number of feminists below 36 will be an upfront on the constitution, I wouldn't encourage the president to recommend that he or she violates the constitution. But even at that issue, it shows commitment by proposing an amendment to the national assembly to do something about that cross that side. But also, the report is very important. It's one way to reduce cost. Okay. All right. Thank you so much. But is that even possible? Because if you're going to merge two agencies, of course, that's like a duplication of roles. So is that even possible? All right. We're having a little glitch on your network, but yes, we just want to say thank you for coming. It was lovely reviewing the papers with you. Thank you so much. All right. We've been speaking with Dr. Law Mefor. He is a social and forensic scientist and we've just been taking stories making headlines in our national dailies. We'll go on a short break and when we return, we'll be looking at our hot topic. We talked about the saga in the Senate at the moment, from Ningen's suspension to Serap calling Acpabio to reinstate him. Let's just go on a short break. See you soon.


Hi, hello, everyone. It's impossible to see anyone. So there is such a bright light Good morning, everyone. Let's start sharing very briefly our our experience Just to put up with a bit of context where we are Well In the meantime, they solved the technical issues. I'm Christine Alvarez. Since nine months I am the group CTO in Banco Santander, but before that all my experience in the telco industry I used to be the CIO in in BodaFone and and and the last 12 years also in Telefonica, so it is quite interesting for me changing a completely different sector like banking But the observing that from the technology point of view is quite quite similar The only difference is the time when the sector is erupted Elco sector was erupted sometimes a some years ago Banking industry is starting to be disruptive. So some days in in Santander I have the impression to be like maybe five six years ago in when I was in in Telefonica, no that is mainly my always working in in technology position But very very related with business because for me everything is about business Technology is is necessary, but it's not the final goal. It's really how we really trust for our business model Christina We've worked together Amazingly, but we've only met and actually we didn't know we were together in Telefonica and but different trajectories in In actually changing companies in a very much Sweet moment for this because the moment in which data Brings this this state to sing which it is less of Coast of business Think that you have to plan for storage and becomes a business asset and Companies start to realize that and start to do things which are interesting with that data becoming an asset and then Build their businesses looking more at the data and less of the technology It's it's it's kind of some of the things that we're going to share to today here my own experience we we shared the Telefonica beat after that I want to to to work for AT&T in San Francisco Bay Area running a team of big data innovation and Having as in many other times doing my life being fortunate enough to work with amazing teams that actually Can other ones that actually make the change not and we may be more or less Involved in that but it's actually the people who in spite of the organizations sometimes Drive the change and actually implemented and then in the case of AT&T I was in that moment in which a company 140 years old 300,000 employees Changed their pace not because the regulator Chopped it into many baby bells But because they wanted to be a new thing and they purchased the Time Warner Media conglomerate and they created a brand new advertising analytics business Which is now named Xander which is a Hint of Alexander Graham Bell the founder of Bell Labs and This company 140 years old with an inertia like like a dinosaur Made it choice to to transform based on data the data That was going to be coming from their communications bit the data was going to be coming from the media bit and the part that they were able to actually Monetize that data in the analytics bit. So amazing moments in in time and now with something there We're just at the beginning of the journey, you know, and we are discovering we are learning about banking sector We are learning and there are huge opportunities to really transform because it's an industry that isn't now is suffering a big disruption So I think we we are going to enjoy it a lot working in this We do am I at a bit of dinosaurs because we have been living companies where data was my treasure And it was data was the power if I have the info I have the power So it's quite interesting but the good news for for for all of us are here today Is that there is the most exciting time to work in technology? I've been working in technology for more than 27 years and at the beginning I felt like a cost As a cost light bit efficiency and all the discussion was about cost cost reduction And how to really use the technology for me much more productive. Okay, it's good But it's not enough and today the technology when you talk about all the CEOs of the big companies They are very very concerned by technology and for me that is so exciting I am really happy to see that Technologies in the middle of the business and and again is not the goal But it's how we really transfer our business model and that is about the PNL I always say digital transformation is how you change your PNL Using two elements first technology second the chain of customer behavior That is not about to have nice technologies inside the company. That is really how we Rethink our business model and it's very very tough Think for instance in the case of Telefonica some years ago when was up and Netflix appears and we were so Thinking in our own business and trying to copy them and it's impossible all these guys are going to the rap Your core business and you don't want to compete with them trying to be like them Because for my point of view is impossible. You really need to understand where are your core strengths? Where are you really good and really transfer your core and really transfer where you are the best and not trying to copy others? Because the competitors want to commoditize your strengths and that is it's very very Important is a very strategic discussion and the only difference between the sectors is when when this ration is coming And it's there is not any difference the kind of the ration and the good news for us is the technologies are quite quite similar Many years ago. It was not the case today Everybody talk about a cloud everybody talk about APIs about data DevOps all the Basics are there Where is the difference for me and the challenge is the execution and if the real Challenge is how these big companies really execute these digital transformation Creating impact on the PNL And and there is a lot of pressure I get on the bank in February We launch all of our a cloud program in March. We're already putting in production And it's not easy and it's not a question nine months getting a baby in one month There are structural changes takes time and to really create sustainable Difference really bad. It's very important to start the journey and doing and learning by doing that is not Like in the past huge long processes Testing learning technology is there. It's outside. It's a baby. I had a lot of discussion with my teams In the last years. Ah, we really need to test this new technology. Come on guys There are many people using this technology across the board less Learning doing things and maybe it's not going to be perfect And I remember our first cloud project in Santander has been a very good learning experience And it was a data project, but I am happy and people was very reluctant to tell me Christina It's been a disaster. Okay great news We are learning because these new technologies are very difficult to the security in big companies And it's something we really need to help and to enable our people to really fail and to really change things and our main responsibility is always the icebreaker and how we take the Sticks and how we really putting together the technology the business there is the compliant people really moving on the same direction But there is not an option and the difference for me is going to be where the companies They can really execute or the others. They are going just and it's loaded And that is for me is very very important because this is not about this the technology team Of course, you need a technology team very powerful But you can have the best technology team in a company. You don't trust for the company That is a leadership issue Starting for the top from the CEO and all the senior managers finance marketing operations Legal human resources Technology that is not about putting technology big data analytics and all these new things Across the company and that's it. It doesn't work The real challenge is how you really manage manage a company in a certain vertical in this way Because if we really believe that we want to be the customer-centric Organization you really need to manage your company by customer journeys and that's breaks all the traditional way of working And and that for me is the challenge. First of all understand for what I need to transform my business For what in terms of business that is a business discussion I want to change the revenues or the cost but less first having the discussion Where is the business drivers and after that I had the what now we start talking about the how But many companies start making things putting the data putting many Technology pieces with no clear business driven and they fail. Okay. Maybe they can get some nice prayer release But they are not really transforming the company So that is because has to be the top down has to be business driven And it implies a very very deep chain from the technology from the people and from the processes And if you don't do three things at the same time, it doesn't work And I remember I failed completely in 2015 when I just start creating the first agile team Working in cloud after one year was a disaster because I underestimate the Relactancy of the intermediate managers. I are underestimate the complexity of the new technology And I underestimate that the difficult part is not putting the first work in the cloud It's how you're running the company the day after How you're running a data product that is not managing software lines is managing data on real time That is completely in your work, but again the important thing is really Have the commitment of the top managers to really have a single plan There is no the business and technology plan There is the company plan and to really secure than a starting a small getting results and really continue on that and again technology many times and sees the C part because Sounds like okay. I mean the year but the because I Suffer a lot in my in my experience really changing changing the way of working not only in technology Also working with my colleagues, but saying that all of these new technologies are very very complex Imagine how different well imagine is the reality How you really change a team working in mainframe on a traditional distributed system in the last 15 20 years now Working in cloud with Kubernetes containers And in a second DevOps Wow so nice is fantastic But the reality that is really really very very complex and creating box is very easy creating really a scalable industrialized services massive service with Millions of transactions is another story And we have to be very serious and we have the responsibility to explain that that is not creating an app in a weekend That is very serious. There are good news. There are very good guys And good companies that we have to support We have to get the best of all these companies to really change our business model But don't forget that it takes time Is no easy and things are going to fail and I want to share with you my my worst experience working as a CIO it was And it's something that it really helped me a lot to think that maybe we had to manage things in a completely different way it was a database corruption 2011 30 of December I Was with my family in a nice hotel and all my team was distributed in their holidays Across the world and we have to manage a very very Tough situation in the middle of the Christmas campaign We really learned a lot and not only the technology teams all the company Because many many times out of technology they underestimate the impact and the complexity of it when the things When the things doesn't work and many people think that this new technology never stop It's quite funny my conversation in the back now But but that is putting in the cloud and it's secure and it works every 24 seven. No, no, no guys things Are a things goes down in a data center or in the cloud and we have to be ready to react And the good news now the technology and the automation really helps a lot compare with the past But don't be shy and don't be a Optimistic and they're estimating the complexity of all of this and and it's very very important to be ready for the fail amazing story I Think that there's there's technology is is one of the enablers and as was Christina was saying it's it's it's probably the one that comes to mind first and there is an inertia to go for it fully that happened with the data lakes and Yeah, everyone has a later lake or two or too many and then There's the thought of what are we doing with this data lake? What are we going to what's the business doing was the business doing making of it and in many cases the Culprits the guilty ones are us the geeks. We are geeks. So we like it. We like technology so we go ahead and we build the lakes and we didn't sadly some creatures appear in the lake and and in some cases Discussions go back to technology when we should be focusing on what are we going to do with this? And I had one of these conversations with with my way with with my teams in in Palo Alto We should be riding the wave of technology We were in that in the in the cradle of technology with the best minds in in that that money can can can hire Suddenly there was kind of a sad vibe because our lakes were Jurassic I mean it was it was the term that was so sticky that We had a moment in which The teams were talking about that while the versions of our spark are not the latest the prime latest because I can download that But I cannot find it in my production lake So there was this tension between the teams that actually had to make things work in production And the teams that wanted to innovate them more and more and more and they could not stop themselves from doing that and We need to actually be there for the teams that are in production because those are Technologists as well as our gigs, but they need to actually maintain a stable production system sometimes our Innovation our innovator ourselves is is fighting against that so we we treat technology a little bit like technology toys We want to have the latest and finest so One anecdote from from a marion experience on this was was having to face my team in in and in Palo Alto And be very harsh on them because of course They were giving a hard time to the production teams that actually was just one person behind in in sparks It was not that big a deal But then something happened or as it happens in in that area of the world the CTO for for the whole AT&T John Donovan happens to be also in the board of Palo Alto networks and blah blah blah He popped by our office Which was in the central office in the middle of Palo Alto? He asked around hey guys, would you would you ask me? I'm the most powerful technology man in your company What would you ask me if I gave you the chance to ask me for something? Do you think my team asked for more power more machines another lab? Potential to to work. I know it's to strike a deal with the Stanford University across the across the Camino Real No, they didn't they complained about the Jurassic Lake And that has been lingering around AT&T since I since I left I found a friend visiting Madrid the other day and they were still Rumors in the corridors about the Jurassic Lake That is the kind of power that you can unleash when you do things, right? And also the kind of the bad vibe that you can create when you do it Just for the wrong reasons and of course There was a bashing of the team that in production to try to to bring that lake to to the right Level of release, but then the next the next generation of releases never came because that production team I stopped talking to that data science team and we had to dedicate a lot of time and effort to build back those Relationships and we need to be careful with these things are more important than the one things And it is not about technology. It's also that the the dynamics the human dynamics the team dynamics in between between those teams which may You may find things going south with no specific reason is not the technology is the people and of course It's also the processes. We had an intro for saying okay, the technology processes and people and data in the middle and What happens with processes? Well, you were very successful than the previous generation that something brought you here You were Henry Ford and you created the first car in production and you reinvented the the the production scale Building and selling of cars for the first time and for a couple of decades or a decade and a half You are king of the hill. There's no one can beat you and then you become overconfident and you've got this this funny Kind of catchphrase any color car as long as it is black because that is the guy I do But then you become a little bit resting at your laurels. You become a little bit of a Overconfident and the processes that brought you there are not going to take you to the next phase There's someone that is going to be thinking on that process and they don't have the ties and the legacy and the and the mental Blockers that you have and they are going to do something different like for instance in the case of or GM came and they said, okay, no any car for any force any budget any Purpose so we will work for the customer that has of course become a theme for from from then on But that made Ford lose very quickly a lot of market share and then of course they finally changed the process they transformed and That is a little bit the driver here Technology opens up possibilities, but then if your organization if your processes are not up to What did they need to be if you transform those processes if you don't transform those processes You will just add technology to a thing that is not working So that is that is one of the that's one pitfall in in processes that that we need to be aware and another another one is Not just technology, but also data brings and opens a lot of possibilities. We're saying that before you can transform a 140-year-old company Based on the on the potential of data to create and grow a new business But then with that comes it's like a spider-man with great responsibility with great power comes great responsibility So now you've got data enables a New a new business but enables needs to enable a new set of conversations between teams That maybe not we're all that happy talking to each other IT compliance and legal and operations They all need to sit together and think very hardly through some of the issues that are new because data is not code It's a different thing So we were able to cage code in a particular machine and then protect the machine with a firewall and blah blah blah But now the the data comes out of that box and it's floating around what I do with this Well apply the same things that that we did with code and hardware Well, it gets guess what that is not possible. You cannot do that So now do we need to get these people to sit together to rethink those processes? Before even you see any any of the supposed business benefit So it is hard because there's no money yet back in it So it is it is kind of an interesting conversation and one of my personal anecdotes in this in this particular case was prior to AT&T when we first made the product that Elena he was talking about before We're working with the with the team with the corporate team in a digital unit and then we're creating for the first time a product that was actually the immune system of the organization we were working for was ready to attack that new product because We don't sell data. We sell communications. We sell phones or communications lines or or even TV But that company was not ready to start selling this other thing data. How do you touch that? How do you? Tell your salespeople to sell that we don't know we approach that that is a good deal Right that is it's something something we bundle with our trios and do us and something we we bundle with your with your connectivity No, it's not it's a source of big revenue, but we need to understand it We need to retrain a lot of other people So I went down from this corporate World in which we had made a few we had some success stories in in specific markets with the specific clients like supermarket chain or with an airport in a particular place that went into to steal some market share from another airport and Those were success stories and we already did some of the technology bit. So we're quite confident. So in That case it was I happened to be in one of those places with you are the only guy that speaks both English and Spanish and Can sit down with a Spanish speaking team and try to to break some to break the ice So I got in front of this table with 17 guys Telling me that is not secure. That is not legal. That is not feasible. That is not profitable You cannot do that and there was kind of an experience of course over the course of six months We have had all the time in the world to go through the through the right conversations to go through the right reassurance that what we were trying to do was perfectly My migratable or we could we could take it from from that other place to their Local context and make it make it work But I can tell you that that was a learning experience In front in that team and saying being said no so many times it really builds your character It's your skin like this. So it's it's it's one of those things that you need to be prepared for Some survival tips is don't give up. It will happen it if you are persistent enough But you need to face this is going to happen You need the same way that with technology that Christina was preventing us. It will fail Just be ready for it in this case. This will happen. So you will have to face a lot of noise You don't have to work with teams that are not absolutely not technical at all If you oversee that if you don't if you underestimate that you're prone to fail because that that is that is something that we need to Incorporate very clearly in the in the process No, and one important point for me and we have the obligation as the technology teams to Educate to the rest of the companies and I know that sometimes and in the past I think the technology team have done a very bad job Because we manage the language a fine 99.99 now a squirrel I'm very nice words that nobody understand us out of sight of technology So it was comfortable because we live in a in an island but On the other side we were always guilty because it was very difficult for the rest of the organization understand us so I think and this one of my obsession with the teams that I manage is we have the obligation to speak the business Language and if we are not able to explain a technology project Where is the benefit for the customer or for the business? maybe Before in that case, let's stop the project and I remember That sounds a bit aggressive, but that is true If we're not able to show that really putting a new technology piece We are not contributing. We are not able to explain in a single page Where is the business benefit customer benefit forget about that project and really start measurement How you are really performing with your business is not about the Communication the machine the hardware the software is up and down. It's really the customer get the transaction in the online channel It's really the customer able to really make what they are experienced And at the end of the day, we really have to abstract all that complexity And thanks to all the new technology with data is amazing the capabilities that we have Let me show you a very real example that I lived some years ago in Telefonica and now they're in Santander You know that for Telefonica TV services was one of the key strategy priorities and video services are pure real-time Service you can is not the same putting a fiber at your home that really beating the middle of a soccer match Real Madrid Barcelona having an issue is completely different story. So And the traditional way to work in the telcos was a completely bad approach all the company was bad So I was quite funny when I I remember the first time we put the commercial the commercial reporting real-time People from commercials say and now what? Because all my processes were thinking to receive the report at the next day So I really need to remain How I were to manage a real-time report. Okay, good That was the easy part because was more the analytic But when you really start managing data in the real-time transaction There is another story and we really need to find a way to get all the data From the set of books all the data from the content that the customer was Visualizing all the info from the network because if you had an issue with the mobile or with the With the network there has a complexity That when we had an incident It was a nightmare because you really need to collect more than 30 people in a table How to manage all that complexity and we couldn't afford that you can afford that if it's not a real-time business But for a pure real-time business, you cannot do that So and the important thing it was not my box is okay. No is the customer experience really good He's having frozen images is having some delays And it's really how we measure customer experience from all the technology data And we really were very very hard and the important the most difficult thing was sitting together on the same table All the areas involved was the first challenge But one they understand that the goal was how we measure our customer are getting the right TV service How will you really use the real-time data technologies that we can put all the data together and to really include it in the In the real-time transaction. We really make an a state chain And was the game the most difficult part was to align all the people to really not having The goal for their bucket or their box really having the end-to-end goal And another for me very very interesting example how we Had to create the content recommendation for the customer The first approach was the pure traditional. Let's make a lot of so are less made to create a complex are great That's what's going to buy forget about that. We have to manage for these a completely new data technologies It's not about relational database completely different technology. Let's do it We had a need we have to get this piece in the market in six months There is technology outside. Let's try it and again the most difficult part for putting the people from the content putting the people From legal putting the people from data together on a table with a single goal Helping them to change the process and to break many processes and many obstacles in these big companies is the more difficult part But we were able to really putting in six months these so are peace with the data And it was the way to really show that in these big companies Is it's quite difficult the transformation? But if you have the right support from the from the top managers and we have the Minimal number of people really wanting to change you can because when you start changing things people say, okay It's suddenly 80% of the people saying every day. There is not possible. That is the case now in the bank with all the cloud I Receive much more people saying you are crazy that people really able and thinking how I can change When you really identify this key business project and you really identify these people that they are really change agent Is the way to start and making things change? And you really can scale up because when people think that they you can do it in another way and if they fail You are not going to kill them is when the people start say, okay Why not and of course there is 20% of the people that they don't want to change forget about that and Focus on the people that really want to change and combine new skill with existing one You need both it's impossible to think yes people from a site can transfer see huge organization So for me that is the key challenge for a leader in this big company How do you compile the new profiles the system one putting a clear business goal and help them to deliver? Because at the end of the day if you don't execute you don't deliver You are not changing anything and one of the problems that I observe in these big companies There are many people talking many people with a great ambition But we fail in the execution so that is very important being very concrete and it's my obsession with With Jose Luis and the rest of the team Let's execute a concrete use case Okay, we want to go to the moon, but before going to the moon. Let's start small Let's execute one use case that has benefit for the business and let's learn The technology and the rest because we have the obligation to educate, but I think it's really I Really enjoy a lot and that is the reason because I I made my decision to come to a different sector to really try to Transport and to help to to this new entrepreneur this new company, you know So just Just building on That was amazing. So What we need to do when we are kind of these change agents that we both are new to the bank we came this year We're trying to what help? Whatever we can have some really need pristine messages that need to go through and we need to repeat and repeat and We need to also create some some some illusion of what is at the other side of all this transfer This this is all hard stuff It's going to be taking a lot of time and effort and energy that you need to put in and as Christina was saying No, this is not immediately evident when you've been already thinking on doing something different with the startups and with With the do you think that you're past your corporate moment? And then you're back in your corporate moment with with the stronger force because of course there the forces of No are very clear when you when you try to to change a company like this You need to get to that moment in which you change is Hard to change is fun because there is a moment in which as I was saying people start to See that change has started to happen. See things have started to tilt the other way And then it's like, okay. I may actually use this this may actually help me It's not a threat. It's an opportunity to do something different or It may be my next step in my career become whatever next thing by by being an expert on that thing but there's there's a need there's this need to to tell a story and Yeah, excuse me for using the cheesy Mandatory Steve jobs image, but it is not here because of the of Steve it's of course we We all think is is it's probably one of the best storytellers and and Creators of of products that kind of stick to to our to our to our memory and our collective minds This is here because that very auditorium Where where he's standing right now is in the old Cupertino offices for Apple And it's what I had to take the data science team reporting to me Because there was no way I could I tried everything to keep them with me But I didn't know how else to motivate that the Jurassic lakes were already non-jurassic I brought business people to try to offer the connection to from what they were doing to the to the business And we were successful at that successful as to be the seed of Sander the new company that was going to be formed still they were Restless and every week if you managing a team in in Silicon Valley is kind of a crazy thing every every every big week You've got someone coming to you saying okay, I've got an offer from Google for Facebook I don't know for for eBay so you have to actually think very hard how to keep people with you what I was I didn't know And of course there's a limited set of options in an old companies at 1080 and T To you to bring the kind of incentives that these companies have on on on employees, which are technical So I ended up learning from them just by by working very closely with them That what they wanted to be is in the exclusive clubs of data scientists in Silicon Valley There was one of those Baylor and a conference that was kind of very little known is not one of those these these hundreds of people conferences and And I was happy enough to be able to get them tickets to the wall tickets to get all the team in there And they they hosted Apple hosted us in this very auditorium and I could see their static views I say lucky and now I hit the nail in the head now I got it But I didn't know how to I didn't know what was going to work And it's it's keeping trying trying and failing and doing some things even with with the teams with people You don't know what's going to motivate, you know, what is going to click? You don't know what is going to to to work so you repeat and then repeat it again and then repeat it again because at some point someone in the audience is going to catch that the transformation is here to stay and you better get used to it and You are part of this by the way, you are part of it. It's not going away You're part of it. So that's accommodate yourself change your mind change your processes Stop saying no and I start looking for ways to say yes and For people which are existing teams They need to feel that they are part of that new thing It's not something that is coming there to you to invade their space It's a new space and they need to move in and for the newcomers the change agents that the data scientists that Brand new people you're bringing they also need to to to be leading that change and not really Hiding in the corners, you know, we are a center of excellence of this and that they need to spread around and Then they need to get together with the skeptical and turn them into believers. So this is it doesn't get any easier than that Absolutely I'm very very important I made my decision to come to Santander because I really believe they had a very good vision and for me That is a fundamental point as I told before that is about how to re-invade the company No, how to re-invade the technology area So and I really believe the the the chairman the CEO has a very clear view where we want to go But saying that it's very important and it is part of our job How we really explain that there is a multi-year journey and creating a sustainable Advantage and to really transfer a huge group like Santander is going to take time and it's going to be tough And we are going to have to make that decisions We really need a very strong top-down leadership, but I think it's very worth things It really when you really see such a company with such a history And all the things they have done across all the history Okay, maybe CC to worry in a small company, of course But I really feel the the the obligation to try to contribute to to really change The company, no, but it's very very important to be very realistic and to ensure that is not a question On next quarter And to really explain them that we really need concrete results That is not about having the firm resale into three years time That is because I am obsessed with the real concrete use cases every three or four months But saying that it's very important to be very very persistent and don't lose the final motivation Because in these big companies sometimes there is a lack of patience and there is the sense of urgency getting result I really need all the execution result I need for tomorrow. Okay This part of the anxiety we have to manage and we have to be very very consistent I always say in Spanish. Sorry. I don't know how to say it in English to be got a Malaya There is very very important is when it's raining very very Well, I don't know Continuously it's very important from the technology areas Educate how the technology can help all the areas of the company to transfer Because they need to transfer the processes the way they are doing business and to really create a robust foundation We are now in Santander creating our sustainable technology foundation with all the key pillars And that is just the early beginning of the journey And to really taking the right process with the right teams and start making happen For those of you that don't know where this is this is a man-made Scenery made by the Romans by persisting and changing the courses for a river to actually mine gold It's in Astorica for those of you that want to travel there. It's persistence. Do whatever you have to do use water use a drop like what a Malaya until it actually Breaks whatever it has to be broken, but it's a it's a it's kind of the secret sauce to all of this Don't don't give up push back Determined and enjoy If I don't enjoy in my work, I prefer to leave the company to be completely honest because I think we invest a lot of time a lot of Energy Sundays are really tough But it's very important at the end of the day you come back home and say, okay I'm really making things and I'm really enjoying no because there are many people in these big companies they are that life zombies and they are like And for me is a pity, you know, and again it's part of how we really Understand where is the big picture and the most important question if we are able to answer to the all the people What I win with this digital transformation, no that for me is is a key challenge for for all the leaders Because if we are not able to answer this question to all the people in the in the company It's impossible to transform the company Yeah, so keep calm change everything It's very very important Okay, so that's it. No, it's one more click. I think Yeah