out that steve works for Mike I'm not sure if this might be rigged is that he might have been given a fair Unfair advantage, so he's heard everything and all the surprise questions I'm going to ask during the you know the planet questions everything Um so I also I don't have specific questions unique to each panelist, but I would posit that I I think this should be an interesting discussion because We certainly have A wide range of perspectives Coming to this issue We have a panelist who of course is the ceo of Of wanting one of the leading implementers That has representatives out in the field every day addressing these challenges And and you know real literally life and death Scenarios We have a representative from the major donor to humanitarian mine action efforts a representative from a u.s. government agency that deals not only with with this specific issue related to post-conflict and stabilization efforts, but a wide range of issues Of which this is only one part and a representative that Uh Brings a wide breadth of knowledge both from uh government private and non-governmental Institutions to a wide range of related sectors Now, uh, you've probably seen so far. We begin been given a bit of a latitude the moderators how how we address the panels I'm going to do one thing a little different. I am Going to provide some brief biographical information because uh, don't worry. I'm not going to read the long bios That have been made available word for word, but I think it it is important to uh to touch a little bit on the experience So I will I will summarize what's in those bios, but we're we're going to start with Major general cowan and I will not do his bios since we've already heard it today and probably once is enough So, uh, general I turn it over to you Steve thanks very much Well, I'm going to start with a quote from a famous thinker on peace carl von clauswitz The first the supreme responsibility of a leader is to understand the nature of the enterprise Upon which he's engaging now they're mistaking it for nor turning into something that's alien to its nature I would argue that too few western policy makers spend enough time thinking about this Actors whether state or non-state will find themselves employed in much more complex circumstances Than in previous eras the battlefield has changed It's no longer the clean place swept clear of all distractions where armies can slug it out This increase in complexity has not been matched by thinking The last 30 years have been marked by intra-state conflict in which the binary relationship between friends and enemies Has been replaced by multiple antagonists actors and audiences And I thought dr. Bouvier brought this out extremely well in the last session And in the last five years this area of interest state conflict has been joined by a renewed interstate hostility Notably in ukraine syria in iraq with russia and the west Increasingly at loggerheads In the mine action sector the trend of recent years has been towards the funding of in conflict and away from post-conflict operations While halo has always operated in both kinds of environment. We've been in afghanistan since 1988 We worked in Sri Lanka during the war. We were in Eritrea and chechnya The trend is undeniable the west priorities are increasingly syria iraq afghanistan ukraine libya yemen the sahel and the maghreb The weapons of choice for insurgents in these environments is a mix of small arms and ied's When I was a soldier as a brigade commander in afghanistan in 2009 to 2010 By way of example, I suffered 64 fatalities 32 to ied's but those numbers were actually dwarfed by the numbers of women and children who were killed in consequence of that conflict That was precisely half of my casualties. The others were coming from direct fire weapons in syria iraq the indirect Rocket and artillery threat is also prevalent along with air delivered systems such as barrel bombs all adding to the mix So how do we the mine action sector fit into the space? I want to look at this from four perspective security tactical technical and social Tying all these four together is what I believe is the center of gravity Consent consent either can either be gained voluntarily or it can be achieved by force I don't think achieving something by force is necessarily what you want to hear but it can be done Consent either way is essential without some sort of consensual environment Unprotected humanitarians will simply become victims As a former soldier, I have my concerns that a lot is now being asked of NGOs Victim operated ied's are not inherently different from mines They aim to block or deter someone from entering an area by killing or maiming The difference is that the russian who laid a mine in the 1980s in afghanistan Will not object to them being cleared in 2017 but a talib or daesh fighter may want his id to remain in place Organizations like the halo trust are funded to clear up the debris of war This is the equivalent of mopping up the floor after a roof leak But if the roof is blown away and the rain continues to pour in It's not a bucket and mop that's needed but a new roof Despite their complexity the campaigns in syria and iraq are essentially battles for control of territory Once territory has been taken by conquest then halo and others may be able to operate successfully But that security environment first needs to be created Ied disposal cannot take place in an inherently hostile environment Moreover, the likelihood is that enforced consent is not really consent at all And that an insurgency will develop behind the front line I'm not seeing enough thought being put into the orchestration of means to construct the new roof And too much energy is being expended on mops and buckets Turning now to the tactical another difference between mines and ids is that mines tend to be laid with a broader tactical purpose in mind Blocking and fragmenting in advance by formations of troops Because they have a higher tactical purpose in mind They are often symmetric in layout and susceptible to methodical clearance IEDs by contrast are often laid to deter much smaller groups of counterinsurgents And are therefore placed in much more cunning ways asymmetric in layout to catch the unwary And supported by booby traps and secondary devices The likelihood of casualties is therefore much higher than with mines Turning now to the technical The term IED covers almost everything from large truck-borne suicide bombs through to victim operated devices And we've talked a lot about that in earlier sessions Mines are factory produced and tend to react in predictable ways IEDs are homemade and less predictable because the term covers too broader range for the purposes of this discussion As I think we agreed in earlier sessions I'm going to focus on simply on victim operated devices So let's turn now to the social The fourth area is indeed social and is where I think the most valuable insights are to be gained If the center of gravity for successful IED disposal operations is consent Then success will only be gained if D miners operate within the local political ecosystem The mine action NGOs success can now translate into the IED disposal arena for the following reasons The first is mass we employ lots of people we deliver jobs for local people which creates local consent And therefore local humanitarian space Where a local actor is motivated for non ideological reasons Often the case in afghanistan or in samalia then humanitarian space can be negotiated But where the actor is ideological in motivation, for instance, most Daesh commanders This will be much less easy and consent may have to be enforced with all the attendant risks I alluded to earlier These locally recruited D miners are also a lot cheaper than their western equivalents Not just because they earn far less money, but because the security that must surround them is far less expensive This also has the benefit of creating a disarmament demobilization and reintegration Virtua circle in which former FARC Taliban or Tamil Tiger fighters in our case can be given new nonviolent employment And successfully reintegrated into society We also have the capacity to flex our workforce quickly from one country to another And halo has done so on the west bank and in ukraine with georgians And we could do the same again with our very large afghan workforce Which could be moved quickly elsewhere in the world for less cost than donors are presently experiencing So let me now qualify all of you above in some important regards First it's not true to say that all our work used to be post conflict And now it should all be in conflict My personal belief is that donors will continue to get much easier returns on their support by clearing post-conflict countries Like angola trillanca cambodia in columbia It's worth finishing demining jobs in these countries And it is easier to prevent a return to conflict than to stop an active conflict from In the first place Secondly the distinction between counter ied and ied's disposal as we talked about earlier needs to be carefully maintained Counter ied is inherently a subset of counter terrorism or counter insurgency It involves the defeat of the ied threat through military police and intelligence means and is not the proper place for charities such as halo There is however a need to orchestrate technical advances and information to better effect If donors want ied's to be cleared then they need to be as open as possible with information and technical assistance Thirdly the humanitarian mine action sectors wholesale approach to demining translates well into simple victim operated ied belt minefields But there will still be a need for high-end skills Either because halo and operators have their own in-house capability and we do or because we work in partnership with others Either in the commercial or the not-for-profit sectors halo is increasingly seeing the value of such partnerships And is in several consortia now and is not operating on its own Fourthly we all need to think about our own exit strategies Mine action operators have large workforces around the world And when our demining operations end we're increasingly looking at ways of migrating the workforce Into new roles either in the agricultural sector or in road and bridge construction The delivery of a national capacity to manage the residual threat is also vital Fifthly halo has always valued a career structure based on in-house training rather than hiring contracted skills This requires a training base which produces high quality staff We're increasingly adjusting our syllabus to meet all of the skills of ied disposal We would like to offer this training capability to the broader sector Finally the term mine action is increasingly seen as a shorthand in this piece I've explained why traditional mine action skills translate well into ied disposal But our work needs to be equally responsive to other requirements notably in the control of direct fire weapons Finally and in summary we live in an age of man-made humanitarian crisis These skills have never been more necessary and the thinking now needs to be put into how they can be put into effect. Thank you very much Thank you general, uh, we'll next uh turn The microphone over to mark swain who is acting deputy assistant secretary for Stability in humanitarian affairs Do a blank on the acronym for a moment. I got to watch my own notes. I was sure either. Yes And in that capacity, uh, he oversees uh development of defense policy for embassy security humanitarian assistance peacekeeping stability operations international rule of law prevention of atrocities and women peace and security retired from the navy in 2008 And mark has worked on defense policy issues both active duty and as a civilian since 2002 Military tours include special assistant to the commander of african in stuttgart deputy polo ad for african at uh for africa at ucom Director for african affairs at the national security council and congressional fellow to senator john warter active duty tours also include flight officer assignments including serving as Admiral's aid to the commander of the second fleet Over 2,500 hours flying as radar intercept officer in the f-14 and his bombardier navigator in the a6 intruder As well as ford carrier deployments flying over iraq basnia simalia and leading combat missions over iraq mark turn it over to you, right? Hey, thanks very much and It's very it's very nice to be here today. And I'd like to thank usip And halo trust for uh convening everyone together to talk about these important issues and i'm looking forward to seeing the displays outside afterwards to To see that important work that that we have going on as a community What I'd like to talk about as the this panel is unconventional conflicts And uh explain to you what the department of defense does in this area of uh humanitarian demining DoD humanitarian demining efforts were originally developed for the permissive post-conflict Situations where active hostilities have ceased and when all explosive remnants of war erw that we've hear so much About now have been cleared It's very difficult in hd humanitarian demining is very difficult in areas where active conflict is ongoing or nearby And that's the challenges that we're facing right now as we are working closely with ngo's and With the military of where are the ngo's going to be operating next as again as we talked about it's it's more Familiar when in the post-conflict environment and then what we have before us right now is sometimes there are as active conflict or just Close after erw after the Segment of hostilities Recently in iraq and syria we can see that that demonstrates where humanitarian demining activities are required in a less permissive environments and that's a challenge to the international community syria especially Where in a place where the united nations is not operating and where it is up to the rest of the international community to Determine how we deal with erw For the department of defense to just explain our roles and authorities We're given to us by congress Our demining activities are governed by under title 10 section 407 and that law stipulates that members of the us armed forces Cannot directly perform humanitarian demining activities But us personnel what we can do is we can train and assist others to do that important work Two programs that we have the first one is the humanitarian mine action Program is administered by the defense security cooperation agency dsca That organization works for osd policy And that is where i uh my office resides and i work for osd policy the under secretary of defense for policy So we coordinate those activities for humanitarian mine action and the funding comes from the odaka the overseas humanitarian disaster and civic aid appropriation and the importance of that uh for our funding each year And this last year congress has Increased that of funding odaka is generally a 100 million dollars a year It's a fund that we use for our steady state all humanitarian assistance And in a time of a disaster when there's an earthquake in napal or there's ebola in west africa when our military response odaka is the authority in funding that supports those activities and For humanitarian mine action that's a subset of odaka so we can spend Used to be 10 million dollars a year for humanitarian mine activities and now we spend up to 15 million dollars a year for those So i wanted you to be aware of that and then the second agency Program that we have is the humanitarian demining Research and development and i will talk about that in a little bit Right now We believe that the un in the field the un coalition local partners in u.s. Should assess and look at ways to accelerate Explosive explosive remnants of war And ied's and demining risk reduction education and other explosive hazards um, this is a specific intensifier that we're at that uh is affecting our defeat ices campaign throughout the world and As you look at what is happening around the world where are the most Who is perpetrating the laying the mines and leaving there and and leaving the erw it Is focused on Many by ices. I think we have a common goal as an international community that we want to rid the lands of Those erw and i think this is an area of unconventional conflicts of how do we how do we do that? For our humanitarian mine action program what we have done in the past It's worked out of fort lee It's the humanitarian demining training center And that program again is up to 15 million dollars a year and we work closely with our combatant commands on how we Go about Prioritizing what the humanitarian mine activities are and we use that funding and we train our partners on the ground in those affected countries with partner militaries to train them in weapons and eo d The erw and the eo d removal For those activities we work on training the trainer And we work closely again with the state department and i'll let Major general rosting will talk about state but many activities that we have with hma the humanitarian mine action We do hand in hand with state and where our priorities and activities go about The second proposal the program that we have again is the humanitarian demining research and development And that team is down in the front here charlie is leading that team today and i'll let them Talk about their issues when you go to the displays next door but This is an important Activity and operation that was started in 1995 by our congress It's funded by my office within osc policy at about 10 million dollars a year it's a Modest amount of money But the expertise and the people that are behind that That support is really the extra value Those individuals work with the halo trust and other NGOs that work for humanitarian mine demining and They take their expertise To develop demonstrate and validate existing off the shelf cost effective and internationally shareable technologies for use in humanitarian demining by civilian government organizations foreign militaries and NGOs In layman's way to say that is they take those existing if it's a demining tool if it's some kind of Large vehicle that goes in and digs up the ground and pulls things out. They might up armor that vehicle They might put a small uav Attached to this off-the-shelf technology to try to show try to be more effective And keep those deminers safe. So I think that the The work that they do is incredibly important What they bring to bear again is their expertise the level of engineering and technology is very Important to work with those NGOs who every scenario is different. I have never pulled up one mine in my In my own experience, but they have done it many times and every situation is different every country is different the soil is different and Having their expertise working with those NGOs Is very important Since 1995 they've conducted 163 technology evaluations in 36 countries The technologies developed by programs have cleared more than 23 million square meters of the world's toughest minefields And destroyed more than a hundred thousand mines or pieces of unexploded ordinance Right now they're in 50 ongoing mine and unexploded in ordinance detection clearing technology evaluations in 12 countries throughout the world And they again work closely with the state department department On their demining activities I think what I want to leave everyone with from my time of speaking Is if we go back and look at the unconventional conflicts And where do we go in the future? I think that we have in the department of defense Two programs that are important and modest in their amount of Dollars that we spend towards that, but the expertise that our humanitarian mine action Trainers and down and forth lead work with foreign militaries and also the level of expertise that we have through hd r&d In fort belvoir working with ngo's We bring a lot to the fight but As we look to the future for unconventional conflicts, how do we work together and coordinate those and manage those? How do we work? We work closely with the state department But how do we in the future? Can we work more closely with the state department or the un or who is that overall? Clearinghouse for the activities that are going on again I think we do a lot of great work, and I think that in the future we'll have to work More coordinated In this space To try to get effects. It's not just the amount of money that we put towards things I think it's the expertise and how we coordinate To be more effective. So thank you very much Thank you mark, and I would just like to reinforce what he said about DOD's humanitarian mine action activities and that They've been a very close and valuable partner with us on these range of activities for years and The 12th the earth and safety is not just a publication covering the state department's activities But the DOD activities that were alluded to are are laid out there as well And I'll also note as I look around the room. I see several people that were in Santiago chili at the end of 2016 for the annual meeting of state's parties of the Ottawa convention or mine band trainee and for those of you who went On our Chilean hosts field trip up to the northern border with Peru To see some displays and performance Of some of their demining technology as we stood on the bluff looking down Down in the valley at the three pieces of demining equipment that performed for us two of those three Uh, we were there as part of the program from Humanitarian demining research and development that mark mentioned so We see that as a as a highly effective and valuable a program in a way to both Help out these countries that need the technologies and also uh to as a way to help develop and further perfect those technologies Uh, next up is uh, major general mike rosting Who is deputy assistant secretary in the bureau of political military affairs at the state department for plans programs and operations And in that capacity he oversees usg US government global assistance programs and policies Such as the global peace operations initiative and the global security contingency funds as well as a range of our Uh, as you've already heard conventional weapons policy issues and our conventional weapons destruction and humanitarian mine action programs and funding As an active duty, uh, air force officer, which he still is He has been a command pilot with over 2,500 hours of flying time primarily in the f16 And has led nato efforts to develop the afghan air force While is commanding general of the train advise and assist command of the 438th air expeditionary wing in cobble in cobble He's also commanded an air force squadron group and two fighter wings And we've already heard the department of defense Out the department of state and note that he is in fact my boss So when we get to the question and answer session I need you all to come up with brilliant and engaging questions to make me look good in front of him So with that, uh, general I turn it over to you. Great. Thanks Steve Well, you know, I'll I'll echo everyone else's sentiments. Thanks to usip. Thanks to halo for putting this together And thanks to all of you for having an interest in this area because it is important And unfortunately it is not going away I think we all know that as much as uh, we would like to look to a mine free world in 2025 I think the odds are against that So I think this business is going to continue And as I look at the the lens of future conflicts and unconventional conflicts, I think I'd like to lay them out for you Through the lens of what's the same as I look into the future and what's going to be the same of what we've been doing Maybe what's going to be a little bit different and what are some of the implications thereof So what's going to be the same? Well, we're still going to have implementers out there doing work all over the world Uh, they're going to be doing important work. It's going to be dangerous work And we're not going to have enough capacity. So like jerry talked about in the last session both at the macro level whether that's at uh at Funders whether that's donors or states or the un We're going to make choices about where we put resources and then even within the context of a given country You're never going to have as much resources as you want So you're still going to have to make those same hard choices About where do you get the most bang for the buck whether that's litter of literally or figurative So I think that's going to remain the same As we seek to do that within a country I think another thing that will continue is that From the perspective of the u.s. State department As much as practical continuing to do that through some sort of local mine action authority Whether you're dealing with u x o Whether you're dealing with traditional landmines whether you're dealing with ied's or all the other names that ken talked about That is the best recipe for success is to still try to work through a local national authority And as things pop up and if we start to hear about efforts to go we might need a separate ied authority I would suggest that we resist those efforts because I think the overall process as anus and I talked about earlier today It's still erw right is it still explosive remnants of war and the framework for which you do it needs to be the same Again, that's an organizational framework not necessarily the tactics of what you're doing in the field because clearly That will be different And as you do that not only from The overarching organization right from a policy perspective in the country from pointing out How you get accreditation for ngos or other implementers in there? Also though how you build a local capacity, which is also touched on We can we see as we look in the future to be a framework we need to continue so whether that's a local capacity to Diffuse landmines or diffuse ied's you still need to build that as well And then I think what's different Well, certainly the tactics are different right as you look into this prevalence of ied's you're going to deal with them differently And you know james talked about That quite a bit you're going to draw on different as the military says tactics techniques and procedures because they're not the same I think we're seeing a migration Where traditional landmines tended to be laid, you know because the nature of them Potentially on lines of communication or in rural areas because they're doing blocking mechanisms for traditional traditional military force Certainly, you see some of that still With ied's or the you know just to throw one more term out for you I'm starting to call them locally manufactured mines Because many of these places we're seeing you know You know there's 500 of them. They're the same. It's not a classic factory, but it's you know It might be a garage factory, but make no mistake It's a bit of a factory. It's not one guy out there You know doing it one time or making it different every time But we're seeing the migration into urban areas, of course And that has a different set Of things you need to think about and so that's a little different So it's not just a rural issue not that it always was but tended to be I think it's starting to be a little more urban and we need to pay attention to that because the impact On the population becomes more immediate Now in a rural setting, of course, you still have farmland You still have you know land you need to try to return to use But for the most part you can still figure out how to get daily living while you do that But in some of these urban settings The impact's more immediate. So I see that as a different Difference that we have to look to for the future as we do that And then also A difference that we've talked about some already, but i'm going to go ahead and talk a little more about it Is working on the edge of conflict or as James said in conflict on the edge of conflict I'm not trying to I'm not trying to parse that term at all And we're going to be doing more of that And certainly as I look into the near future of where the US government's mind is we're going to see our resources Pointed primarily in that direction, you know, Iraq, Syria Libya, Afghanistan But there's implications of working on the edge of conflict James hit on a few Security certainly being one of them and I want to touch on a couple pieces of that from the security standpoint One is money So if we have to spend more money protecting D miners And I say that in the broad since the term of demining That's less money that's available to actually get work done and it tends to be more expensive You also have this interesting security piece that was touched on in that many of our implementing partners Values their neutrality in the humanitarian space And the closer you get or the farther you get from a post conflict where now you're working in a peaceful area in the closer You get to being in conflict The more their neutrality might come into question And certainly as the state department we have to respect that and absolutely do respect That which means they may not be comfortable working there and then also from a practical standpoint That even if you have someone who might be comfortable more comfortable working closer towards the conflict If their neutrality becomes in question Then they become potentially a target to someone perceived on one side of the conflict or the other more likely who Who we as the u.s. Government would see as the enemy they become a target and that has the secondary secondary effects Let me give you an example of that and I think it's a halo example This is back a few years ago in afghanistan You've got a local police force that terms turns to one of our implementing partners I'm pretty sure it's halo james for correct me if Someone correct me if i'm wrong and this is back in 2013 and they've come across an ied on the road And they are trying to get local lawmakers Through this road and so they come to the folks out in the field and say hey, we need help moving this ied The people in the field we won't Figure out or or dissect how and why they got there but ended up going out to help It ended up being a command detonate a command Activated ied and that person was killed and their assistant was injured Two things happened there of course not only do we lose a valuable well several things happened lost a valuable resource Certainly made that implementing partner rethink where they wanted to be in the conflict and third You've got an enemy now who potentially sees that implementing partner as part of the other team rather than a neutral force Now compare that to someplace like uh Mozambique or something where we're you know, we're clearly in a post-conflict stage and when you're out there demining You know, there's no one out there going. Oh, we got to stop him from doing that or stop her from doing that So that's an important difference The other thing is this uh edge of conflict tends to be more dynamic Right that when you get into a post-conflict Uh situation The tactics are dead It's out there now you may have to solve that you may have to figure it out But the tactics are not so much evolving anymore But what we're seeing in iraq and syria is we get out there and do some work But the enemy is still engaged right so they're seeing what's working. What's not working So the next minds you come across May be very different because they're reacting to what just got done last week or last month or a couple months ago And that dynam dynamism can be a problem And then of course another difference Work in the edge of conflict is there's a greater chance that the battle lines may change You know, we were doing some work in syria right now And there was a conversation that went on where we were doing some work and then at one point It looked like the front may change in places that we were about to go work You know made no longer being a place that we thought was relatively stable Although it's serious. So that's all taken with a grain of salt And so that that dynamic is also there too But as we do this work in these unconventional conflicts And jerry talked about in the last session where I see the head of the u.s. government right now And the state or I should say the state department. I shouldn't speak more broadly than that But for the state department doing this is we are going to focus on those areas of stabilization We think first that can leverage other humanitarian efforts We are not as focused on going door to door or field to field right now But what can we do that has good bang for the buck that has secondary secondary effects water infrastructure schools hospitals And you've got to do that in coordination with the right group And in that conflict environment it can be a little difficult sometimes finding that right group We think in iraq right now. We've you know, we've got a model that's working We think fairly well for certainly not perfect You know, but we've got a good coordination group that includes the unb at un d up on mass It includes the u.s. Embassy where we've got folks forward includes local government Whether that's up north towards mozal or down in anbar and in chords and of course Implementing partners as well be it contractors or NGOs And they're coming together to get a good prioritization of efforts on that And that communication has got to be good And one of the things too I think james touched on Is we've got to break this wall down Especially in these areas between the military And the civilian workers in mine action be it on the technical aspects. I think that's real important You know, here's the classic thing is NGO goes up takes a picture of an ied and posts it to the web because they want to share that information Now with everyone go. Hey, here's what we found here. So we diffused it This works the same guy next to him is a military person goes up and labels it toxic And no one can see it We got to try to break those walls down Because I think there's an information sharing here on the side and we're doing some of that in the field And I think but we got to continue to to do that on there And then I'll touch I'll touch briefly to I've also talked about it on this distinction between What I'll call humanitarian mine action and counter ied and I know we've touched on it before But I would be remiss if I didn't pound this one more time Is that we see an important difference between the two We see counter ied is primarily a military mission Could be police or other security forces But primarily a military mission to work in conflict to do those things again To defeat the device to get after the network to train the force to do all those things to include the intelligence The secondary effects of all of that But it's primarily a military mission in focus or security mission in focused That is not the space that state department per se is operating in so much We are primarily operating in the humanitarian mine action again. Sometimes It is close to the counter ied mission There certainly needs to be I think some overlap on information sharing But if we get confused on what we're doing in the context we're doing it in I think we can find ourselves in trouble and it's important that all of us I think as a community Start to be disciplined about how we use those terms and how we think about them So we don't unnecessarily conflate what can already be a confusing issue And then lastly of course a major difference is the tactics You know dealing with ied's Things james hit on already Is going to be a lot different than dealing with mines But I think we can have many of the same members out there will evolve those things We'll hire the right people to train the folks whether that's experts coming from out of country or training folks in country So those are some of the things I see as a as a big difference Going forward the sieve mill cooperation on the edge of conflict I think it becomes even more important than it is in a post conflict and I would key that Sort of as a last thought for future conflicts. Thank you Thank you general our fourth and final speaker on this panel is Karla couple vice president for applied conflict transformation here at the us institute for peace Karla has 25 years of experience working in a wide range of sectors and public private And non-governmental organizations internationally Before joining us ip she was chief strategy officer for the u.s agency for international development And while there served a senior coordinator for gender equality and women's empowerment and as a senior advisor advisor To the us aid administrator Before aid she directed the institute for inclusive security and the dc office of the hunt alternatives fund and Before that was senior advisor and interim director of the conflict prevention project at the woodrow wilson international center for scholars And she also served as deputy assistant secretary for international affairs At the us department of housing and urban development. So karla the floor is yours. Thanks. Good afternoon I'm uh, i'm glad to follow the general because um or the multiple generals Because really mine is a perfect counterpart to your last comment about how's the civil and military come together and and a little bit About how you do that the us institute of peace Really focuses a great deal on Bridge building and how you bring together military and civilian counterparts around a problem set related to conflict transformation and peace building And when I was thinking about this conversation this afternoon, um, I Focused on a discussion. I just had when I was in senegal and I used senegal as a case example. It could be lots of different countries But since I was there recently I will build on that In senegal you have over 400,000 square meters of territory in khazaman's region that still has Mines and active mines and there's a process of demining underway And while that's more of a classic environment, I think I would Say that in some ways to Refer back to stevens point earlier the past is prologue in many ways for the kinds of challenges that are faced And there you when I was Um in dakar and speaking with your colleagues in the state department. They said well, we have an opening for the peace process We're looking for ways to build trust between those who are returning from having been displaced over decades of conflict And we're looking for ways to Bring the communities and the government together And in some ways I I when I was thinking about the conversation this afternoon Seemed like a perfect opportunity not only to say that you need that kind of collaboration between civil military authorities and local Local individuals, but you can benefit from it in other ways as you're engaging in the peace building process Because really having conversations around what local priorities are where you get biggest bang for the buck Enables you to start to create an atmosphere of trust at the same time that you're able to remove Unexploded ordinance IEDs or other weaponry And that's exactly the kind of activity that can be taking place in these places around the world when you are engaging Engaging the wide range of stakeholders in defining a path forward for Anti-mining activity in the case of senegal you see that the fact that there are these These mines is is preventing recovery is preventing the return of displaced populations Is stunting economic development and hindering increases in governance by creating frozen zones and places where there cannot be development And that kind of challenge continues to exist in some ways Because there's an inability for the various stakeholders to work together It reminds me Of the work of a former colleague Ambassador don steinberg who was ambassador in angola and tells the story and I see you nodding So you've heard the story tells the story of how when he was involved in the negotiating process They negotiated the removal of mines along roadways And proceeded with that because they thought that was the biggest priority for economic development When in fact after removing those mines along the roadways and inviting communities backed in They saw the kinds of huge Female and children casualties that were unexpected because they were going into the fields And it refers back to What general count was saying earlier on in terms of the the ratio of casualties depending on the choices you make when you're doing mine removal And you have the same problem today in senegal Where there is a big priority by the government on removing mines along roadways But that isn't going to lead to the kind of peace building recovery And stabilization that you would want to see within these communities that would allow a trajectory to peace and prosperity in the causamance region Now I was I was in Senegal actually For a project that we have underway called the justice and security dialogue which focuses on bringing various actors together around a problem set defined by local local Communities and government authorities and the police and the military when necessary To determine their priorities and there we were working gageway To around an anti radicalization agenda and around an agenda for violence reduction And those were the priorities that were defined by By the people living in that community But what they had identified and the results of that Process identification was a set of priorities That led not only to reductions in violence and reductions in radicalization It also resulted in better communication between The community members and the police force better communication between local government authorities and the police There and better communication between civil society organizations And the government authorities from which they were trying to get service delivery And one might envision a similar process for the identification and prioritization Of where to remove mines when they are located around Civilian populations that could result in a lot of unexpected positive externalities in addition to Reducing the violence associated with unexploded ordinance, whether those are IEDs or classic mines and I think that To general rosting's point earlier this becomes even more important when you're dealing in urban areas Because you have a set of circumstances in which those margins are even smaller and where the risks are even higher And I hearken back to examples that didn't deal with mines in the past But where you heard about weapons caches or prison breaks First from Individual civilian populations Because they knew where Individuals who were either loosely associated with radical or military forces Were more likely to see what was going on or because they were active in different parts of the communities And i'm thinking particularly in afghanistan Where you had the the sort of infamous kandahar prison break first announced by women within the community And the identification of caches of weaponry in iraq, which were also by civil society organizations who were first located close to those Those sites and were moving in parts of the area where Military authorities and police authorities were not present So I would just re-emphasize that I think that as we move forward and think about the Unconventional and new challenges or whether we think about Those of the past and those that are more traditional That the opportunities for civil military collaboration and for a mission focused Collaborative process that involves involves a wide swath of actors and the identification and prioritization Of actions for ied or traditional mine removal will result not only in more saved lives But it will also result in a trajectory for peace and prosperity that is more likely to deliver the kinds of benefits That maintain long-term stability and peace in areas affected by affected by mines. So thank you very much All right. Thank you Paul Hughes. Let me ask first I'm supposed to wrap up by 5 25. So there's room for concluding remarks. Is that correct? Okay So that leaves us about 15 minutes for questions and given that I'll withhold Any comments or summaries so we can jump right to the questions to make sure we have enough time We'll start at the very top and work down Hello, thank you. I'm jordan sells. I'm a student at howard. My question is What Are weapons of mass destruction? Well, I think we know where you're going with this, but who would like to take a cut at that Well the weapons of mass destruction is That's a very difficult question to answer especially since I'm the person that works on the demining and stabilization And we have a whole office for weapons of mass destruction in the department of defense. So at least for me, I won't Try to define what a weapon of mass destruction is but certainly On the standpoint of humanitarian demining Mining Mines that are laid in the Fields that children and women can run into if that's Effects your family and it's your wife or your daughter your son And that's certainly a devastating mass destruction for you and your family. So Um, my little part of the world we work with humanitarian mine action and hd r and d to make sure that we don't uh that we Don't allow that to happen, but I'll let the others talk. I'll pile on just just real quick I Typically in in the mine action world We don't often refer to as mines as weapons of mass Destruction now what you will sometimes hear is collectively over time Those small, you know weapons over time can certainly lead to a lot of effects But I I think as a general rule I don't hear too many people talking about mines as a weapon of mass destruction or even an ied Um and on there I I like the full naivety of the question and if your inference is That I mean I quoted klaus witz early. Let's use his other famous quote war's extension of politics by other means If war has any purpose at all and let's face it war is evil Then it must achieve a political purpose And if it's not achieving a political purpose if it's killing people A long time after the event surrounding the original Uh prosecution of that conflict let's say a russian mine in afghanistan then it is purely evil Some evils are worse than other evils and maybe war is occasionally necessary But in that particular instance it is clearly entirely unnecessary And that is why it has been prescribed by the bulk of the international community and that's why people want to get rid of them I would also just add briefly to the extent that You know what the question is getting at is total casualties From what are typically considered wmd Versus what is really killing more people the conventional weapons Including things that last for years afterwards landmines ux o Clash munitions that that didn't explode. I I think that reality Wherever you stand on the issue of what Is proper to use or not use as a weapon is what drove civil society to begin this movement in initially with The mine ban movement back in the 90s and then would that success went on to You know look at other issues like uh un program of action on small arms lie weapons or the Clash munitions convention. I think that was uh, you know, as I said, wherever you stand on the issues Uh That was a large motivating factor behind that movement I'd just like to point out that the uh humanitarian people and the state department through dod And to answer the weapons of mass destruction to have dod solve it first should be other people So I hand over here or well, we'll go ahead write that one right next to you first Hi, my name is cori wegener. I'm with the smithsonian institution And we're working on a project with the department of state education and cultural affairs bureau And uh the iraqi ministry of culture to assist with cultural heritage that was intentionally destroyed By isis. We're working on the uh ancient assyrian site of namrud, which was blown up by isis in 2015 And we're we're very aware that there is probably unexploded ordinance You um and possibly booby traps and mines there wondering about your thoughts the panel But maybe particularly general rathstein about uh cultural heritage prioritization as part of humanitarian infrastructure Yeah, certainly. I I think uh, that is something that needs to be considered I think that's got to you know be looked at on a case by case basis, you know within the context of a given country and priorities And and certainly I mean the fact that you're teaming with the state department on this tells you that you know Our government believes that that's an important issue. So I think the answer is is yes, I don't want to give it unqualified It's the most important thing of course, but I think certainly something that That needs to be considered and and I see our government and other governments doing that Very purposefully at times, especially as we've seen, you know What this particular threat of isis is is doing on on cultural heritage artifacts If I could just add and I think it is hard to prioritize something cultural over something humanitarian But the halo trust is working on one particular project in the moment in the Middle East, which I think is relevant Uh at the site of the baptism of christ on the on the banks of the river jordan Eight churches or christian different denominations were mined booby trapped By the israelis at the time of the sixth day war We've got the israelis. We've got the palestinians We've got all eight christian denominations to agree That it's time to clear those eight churches and restore them to their proper use I think at a time where elsewhere in the world people are blowing up sites of Religious significance It is great to be able to do something that runs counter to the trend And I think although it is not strictly humanitarian the symbolism of it Matters to the broader humanitarian work of the mine action community This one next and then we'll get some of them over here Thanks, um camille wallon from the halo trust I promise this question is not a plant and Carla I was really interested in the point that you came up with about the difference between the short term priorities and the life-saving priorities versus the longer term economic development and stabilization and there was actually a report Um that is going to come out soon The final version will be out soon that was a study that was conducted by the london business school and uh brown university on the economic impact the macroeconomic impact of clearance of the whole of mozambique And that has seen that it's something that as Individual organizations we will never be able to to measure the macro impact of that and the longer term impact But as we know mine action takes a long time clearance takes a long time and seeing the stabilizing impact and developmental impact of that takes even longer But this report is fantastic in the way. It's shown The economic impact to far outweigh the cost of clearance um and that clearance of Certain towns has seen not only an impact in that area, but an exponential impact in the areas that are connected to it and on the The economy and I don't want to spoil their thunder and the the report will be out in a couple of months But I would I really recommend that everybody here reads it my question is in In a time of competing donor interests and changing foreign policies among Donors How can we Try to enhance the stabilizing impact the long term stabilizing impact that we have Through mine action compared to the shorter term priorities Thanks for the comment and the and the site to the study. It sounds really interesting. I mean, I think that in part the answer to your Question is in studies like the one you mentioned that is um It's extremely important that we try to capture the broad set of Impacts and benefits that accrue from things like mine removal Whether that is the long-term economic benefits Whether that is the trust in a government coming out of conflict Whether that is the preservation of historic artifacts and try to bring all of that to bear when you're talking about The cost of removal because I think that is what makes that's not easy, but that's what makes the case for looking not just at the short term, but at the long term and the more that we can Classify and quantify Both of those and I don't think it's a purely quantitative exercise, which is why I say classify I think the more we build a sort of business case around it that becomes crystal clear So as I think of of long term versus short term priorities And it may not be whatever wants to hear but i'll give you a sort of my honest opinion Is that you've got to start with your short term priorities Not only uh because there's oftentimes a political necessity for it Especially in the stabilization efforts you you've got one of the things you're trying to do is not only You know get the humanitarian impacts, but also the political impacts thereof So you can allow people to come back so you can get some faith that the The local governance is doing things that can take care of people because that has second and third order effects And that typically means focusing more on shorter term Then longer term and even though we all might know academically in the perfect world You might plot some of those longer term priorities because in the end you're going to get great return on investment down the road on it If you don't pay attention to the shorter term stuff up front, you're never going to get there in the political environment So I see it as starting on the short term Creating enough Cache if you will that there's enough confidence that you can then focus to start to shift some of that towards the longer term Now again, I think every situation is going to be different And I think you've got to work with the local government of whatever you're doing to find that balance within the political context of what they're working But that's my take on it. I don't know if that addresses your question Thank you. My name is mo. I write the blog land mines in Africa and my question is about The sharing of knowledge that You know, I see from From Somalia around the arc to molly There is a significant number of improvised explosive devices being used and There are different operators working in all of those countries and there are different You know, but the question is with Transnational networks and with, you know, a lot of the groups claiming Allegiance to ices or to another or other sort of transnational organizations How are we sharing the information about those Weapons that you're finding how, you know, we classically know factory made land mines there they can get a lot of similarities in terms of clearance and in terms of Addressing their contamination, but as you see IEDs Are you able to share the information about how they're constructed? What their materials are how you find them or are you getting the situation where you know the You know the NGO guys taking a photo and the military guys making a top secret and that top secret means that you can't share that information And therefore, you know possibly making it harder for someone else to Do their clearance work. Well, thank you. I'll jump in and answer and start and I'll let state Answer for that for for the Department of Defense how we do that as for uh, humanitarian demining research and development that team that That we work with closely They are a part of the department of the army and they can all of those things that you talked about the the what's in the cutting edge of Mines that are actually in the field right now and how our u.s. Military people are dealing with them They can take those lessons learned and then they can fold that into what they are doing in hd rnd to support the The halo trust as the general talked about the halo trust is in on the jordan river right now with the The baptism of christ for that Facility for that geographic location hd rnd is supporting them so as they work there or any workplace else where hd rnd is working with ngo's They can one of their uh Core competencies is bringing that expertise that our u.s. Military has in combating minds and how we can bring that Information and help ngo's as they do humanitarian demining As an operator We cry out for this kind of information and as a former soldier. I know that the the ability to store and conceal information is so much easier than sharing it The the problem isn't simply technical There's a there's an operational Need to share for instance the the deadly incident in Mazar al-Sharif over the weekend in which over 100 afghan soldiers were killed We have a very major part of our afghan operation near there now We were mercifully not affected by it, but we could have been the ability to share that kind of operational information Is necessary, but then it touches again on the impartiality of ngo's do ngo's want to be Privy to military intelligence or not And there's some really difficult issues that need to be thought through here But when it comes to the technical aspects of ied's if a donor wants to fund an operator It's got also to fund the appropriate to provide the appropriate information so that we are not putting our D minors or our ied operators at risk If I can add or ask general to what extent is there Direct sharing of of information on on these issues and technologies found directly between ngo's particularly Where in in a number of these countries, you know, several of you were all all working in the same country So I mean we have The director of the you and my national service here. So that is the obvious Um international organization We also have the Geneva institute for humanitarian demining And of course many operators are now in consortium one sort or another so Halo's main consortium is with the british government With the mines advisory group and with norwegian people's aid Where the lead for that consortium and we have a duty to make sure that all three operators are operating in a safe way So there is a need to share Between operators and vertically to the international organizations, but I do also think the donors have a part to plan this I'm going to squeeze one it's 525. Let's do one last question Thank you. My name is brian sand. I'm with unmask Right now we're developing with 11 member states of nato including the u.s international or excuse me un ied disposal standards for Humanitarian ied clearance The chapters that we're writing touch on a lot of the aspects that you've you've talked about today from training clearance information sharing Across ngo's organizational risk analysis how to operate on that battle space at the edge of conflict if you will Doing a lot of the things that imass has done for landmine clearance for the last 20 years And I guess my question is with imass having been paired with the mindband treaty That really made it effective for the clearance of landmine. One was the strategic global Mechanism to get rid of landmines. The other was the tactical Pragmatic clearance on the ground. So we're developing ied standards as that tactical level on the ground What do you see as the mechanism at the global strategic level to try and get rid of ied's because it's a situation where you can't really Band them like you do mindband Excuse me a landmine band. Do you see a mechanism out there? What would that approach look like? I'll take uh, you weren't You're right. We don't have you know the ied band treaty and and we're not I mean I think uh, I think it is still possible to get traction for it. I think My my understanding is you know the mine action community Will be receptive to getting that and uh, it's maybe it doesn't Carey the same gravity toss as the treaty itself But if I recall correctly The call to work on this effort was from the un secretary general included in his report on ied So, you know, there is a hook there. I'm sure the the plan is once it's agreed upon To get it endorsed by a consensus un resolution Uh, so we can point at that and I I'd say I'm not sure if there's anything else we can hook it on other than that But and other than I I think the implementers, you know, are going to be motivated to To have standards where in fact there's a vacuum right now My understanding from talking to people that are involved in this so far and you two certainly know this more than me that some of the Standards that are being looked at really aren't going to very Very much if at all from imass Maybe qaqc Survey things like that, but maybe some of the things related to the Clearance of some of the more technologically challenging ids would So I I think there's recognition that there that the need is there And which I think will make You know everyone more receptive now also the willingness of of the donors to Hold their you know implementers to that standard will be part of it as well Just with one thing, you know, I think the the key underlying fact in this is state versus non-state actors, right? you know, so That that's a huge change most of the folks who are dealing with ids are non-state actors very difficult obviously to hold them accountable You know under any sort of international law and that sort of thing so that's It's going to make it a very difficult problem. I mean there are two sorts of terrorists Ones you get old and ones that die and The ones that get old get reasonable they lose that young man's instinct to go out and cause trouble And they may become like the ira or phak or etta and become You know peacemakers or they may just be like Al Qaeda or daish and carry on fighting till they die And you'll never create an international order That can legislate for that. I I just think it's impossible We're four minutes over. Let me thank the panel. I think uh, we covered a lot of issues Just two key takeaways amongst many is there I think there was a lot of agreement on the need to increase civil military cooperation on these issues as as we move forward but also agreement on the importance to maintain the distinction between military ied defeat and humanitarian ied efforts With that, I know there were some hands still raised. I'm happy to answer questions afterwards I I'm going to speak for our panel and I presume if you can catch them afterwards They'd be happy to answer any further questions as well. Thank you and we'll turn it over to paul Let's give him a hand So on behalf of halo trust in the u.s. Institute of peace I'd like to thank all of you for taking the time to attend today's session the the plague the the issue of Landmines uxos ied's all of that is going to be one that will continue for the foreseeable future We all represent different various parts of the answer And so the need to network the need to synchronize the need to complement To complement each other's efforts Goes on and I would urge you all to to make those contacts today if you have not yet done so We have a reception next door you are all heartily welcome to come and enjoy it and to Just get to know one another and ask those questions of steve and the others so again. Thank you all for coming The wine bar is open


Mike, do you have to, with back-to-back games for the first time this season, have to maybe guard against taking that, maybe a little bit for, you know, taking it for granted, or do you have? Tell me out here, back-to-back games here for the first time this season, back-to-back home games. You guys have not had to travel, you've been traveling so much home in a way. You finally get to stay at home for back-to-back weeks. I don't think we should take anything for granted, just as a general rule. So, again, excited about the preparation, excited about the opportunity to be in the division.  That's probably more important than whether we travel or at home. I know you're talking about, I guess, how run defense was the first time against them. Obviously, that's one of the keys this week.  I wouldn't say that it was all bad. There's a lot of, you know, no gains. There's some ones, and there's some twos.  And certainly, the X-Play there on short yardage was one of those, and it was a big one. So, again, we know that this team is an excellent, again, they're really good up front. I think they play well together. I think they work well in combination, good scheme, and they're effective running the football. And so we'll have to be really good. We'll have to, you know, be able to defend, you know, some of those shots that we got last time and, you know, and make sure that the quarterback is not creating loose plays. So, Leo didn't actually, didn't exactly say, go Titans on his way out the door. What kind of conversation do you have with him as he comes back? Well, we had a conversation, and obviously Jalil, I would say that that's out of character for Jalil. I've enjoyed the time that, you know, he was here, getting to know him through the offseason and camp and his professionalism. And obviously, he was frustrated. I think we all, at times, get frustrated.  It's probably not the way that we would recommend it, and he knows that. But again, we all get frustrated at times, and I don't think anybody's immune to that. So, you know, I know who Jalil is, and I'm comfortable that he'll give us everything that he has. For you, when you get frustrated, do you have like a particular person you go to as an outlet, or what do you do to kind of relieve that frustration? You know, I think family helps. I think, you know, the coaches help. I think players help.    Beyond the boarding being behind the stakes, which I think were only twice on Sunday, what are some of the things that you have to do better to convert more blurred downs in those situations? Not have three penalties, you know. That went from third and three to eight, seven to 12, and whatever, add five to whatever the other one was.  These are all the things that we tell the players, you know, that we try to coach and understand that you get multiple fronts, you get multiple pressures, you know, communication when pressure comes is critical. The quarterback has to be able to, you know, ID the front, the pressure. And then, you know, if they give us something else, then we got to know we're hot and, you know, then we got to protect and get open and execute. You talked a lot lately about cool plays that either you've executed or that you failed to execute because of mistakes, but you've used cool a lot to describe stuff that you've done or tried to do. What makes for a cool play? Well, man, I guess I just felt like plays that haven't been banked reps from the off season that you put in, it's part of the base you know, your base package from the spring throughout training camp that you're coming in here every day working against, working towards. You know, and you work on those and sometimes they sit there for a week or so and sometimes you use them, sometimes you don't. And again, there's a good balance on those because sometimes it's, you know, an ex-play or sometimes it's second and 18 or you turn it over. So typically something you're drawing up on a Tuesday collectively? We've got a catalog. I mean, we've got a catalog that we try to pull from or sometimes they come up on a Tuesday or, you know, again, you can't have a whole entire playbook of them, but just things that we're trying to use that can help us. How are they different maybe from the team you saw on week five? I mean, Stewart's not in there. Leonard's not in there. If that's some corners, you know, rotate their way through there, but Buckner's there, you know, Franklin's there. Those are really two impactful players. Good edge rushers. You know, they just keep throwing edge rushers at you one after another.  But I mean, really, it's been kind of what they are.  They're fast, they're aggressive, and they understand their scheme. You know, Kenny Moore, great player, just knows how to work in their scheme and won the Panthers game for them. Well, we haven't had the full week, but yeah, we will. Again, he's got great grasp of the system having been, you know, with that in Philadelphia.  That's something that they used last week a lot more. They had it, so I think the command is there and his ability to extend plays and, you know, he's done a good job for him. The way their Red Zone offense has improved so much since the last time he faced them. What are some of the things that you see? Well, some of those scheme plays that you get, it looks like they go fast. There's some tempo to it. You know, given the quarterback options, right? Whether he's, you know, given it, throwing it or, you know, if you overplay that, then he ran one in last week.   So, it will have to be, you know, excellent there, you know, if they get down there. Things being simplified a little once last week or at least, you know, the message being to keep things simple. I'm curious about that.  And maybe this was an answer.  You have to stay consistent. You have to try to stay as consistent to what you believe is possible and know that, you know, the rewards will come. The results will come. You know, there are a lot of great examples in there. Again, just a few examples like we touched on that, you know, limited it to 17 points offensively. But, you know, some great examples in the kicking game, but again, some missed opportunities in the kicking game as well. Some great snaps defensively, but then also some penalties or third down conversion. So, I don't think that you let any sort of doubt creep in.  Mac and cheese with a head. Do you find something like that in the little spare time you have when you're screwing around, flipping around your phone like the rest of us, or does somebody feed you clips that might be useful? We find them different places. I thought it was funny. Thought it applied to where we were. Thought it applied to Thanksgiving. Kind of fit good on a Friday tape. It's a good way to start, you know, different ways to deliver the message. And, you know, there's a lot of truth in some of that. There's a lot of truth and humor. And certainly, you know, I don't even know her name. We're just calling her Aunt Betty for whatever, you know, it's worth.  Are you surprised sometimes as to what's sticky with the guys and what isn't? Well, we're always trying to engage, we're always trying to make sure that everybody's engaged. We're trying to, you know, stimulate learning, stimulate understanding of concepts. You know, that's most important. And again, if you can have some fun along the way, like this is, you know, spent a lot of time together. So you want to try to make it as enjoyable as possible, not make it giggly and not make it goofy. Hold people accountable, make sure everybody's doing what they're supposed to be doing. But then, you know, trying to have as good of a time as you possibly can.  Oh, I've got a lot of clunkers, trust me, I'm sure, yeah. When I have to say that's a joke, you can laugh. That's usually a clunker. Go ahead, Kayla. Going back to the right back situation, John Bentale with the thumb surgery is going to be out. So, with Zach Moss kind of being able to focus on him.  I know, he's a good back.   Andy Wilson starting quarterback early in the year and yet they're still in the top 10 in points per game.  Well, I could call it scheme. I think they're really good up front. I think they're, they know who they are. They've put different players in there.   What comes to execution, what comes to execution, right? If you guys throughout the week, you go over, okay, if he does this, you have to do that and you just repeatedly go over and then you get on the field and it doesn't happen. How do you handle the accountability aspect of it? Uh, yeah. Coach, hey, what's going on? You go to the player, how do you? Well, I mean, I think we all, we have conversations with all those different people. And, you know, it was, is it a mistake? Did you just get beat? Were you loafing? You know, was it an aggressive penalty? You know what I mean? If you could maybe give me an example, I could try to help you specifically work through that. There's just a lot of different things that come up, you know, or positively at the end of half. Like we've been repping down, down clock since the beginning of training camp. And for us to be able to do that from the other side of the 50, really excited about that. You can see our players and it's okay to be excited. You know, you put a lot of work into this and you know, to go down there and clock it and they're protecting the sidelines. We get that thing done and Bruce spots the ball and everybody's running and set. So that's an example of positively. And then negatively, if it's a penalty and it's we're looking in the backfield and it becomes something that's over and over, you know, you have to, you know, eventually if there's other players or you're holding all the time or you don't take care of the football or you're loose with a football, you know, you have to find other options. So I apologize if there's a specific example that you want to talk about. But even like sort of Jaguar's game, really he had the 20 yard touchdown and I know you guys were kind of like rotating the coverage a bit. I guess there was a miscommunication on that side, on that right side of the defensive side of the offense or something like that. Like we have a miscommunication or a blown. Yeah, I mean the miscommunication, you know, the accountability is just, you know, on each other, you know, to make sure like if I'm a player that is expecting help, I'm going to remind the guy that's given me help or hey, if he goes here, you know, you've got him or if the guard pulls and we have to spill it, you know, there's all these just different things and the reaction time that you have is limited. And so again, just the more that you can rep it and coach it and again be as consistent as possible whether that's simple and running the stuff that we've ran. So that's not, you know, sometimes you try to scheme up a defense or scheme up a play and it's not against the look that you, you know, maybe at practice because you only have a limited amount of reps. Now it's well, the margin for error gets greater as opposed to, you know, if you're in this call and they go empty, we know what we're doing. If we get five down this run play, we know how we're handling it because we've done it. So there's a mix of, you know, your core concepts and then scheme play. Was Sunday one of Skarotsky's cleaner, better games in terms of his overall play? And is he now seemingly back to full strength after? Yeah, I think he's back to full strength. I don't know, cleaner, better, like, you know, him continuing to improve and, you know, show the play strength that we saw on tape continue to work and pass protection and games and, you know, but like his play demeanor. How much confidence they get from a performance like they have on Sunday? How much do you think momentum is a real driver or a given player or a unit like a D-line? Well, and we've been through this, I think before you've kind of started covering us, but, you know, the whole momentum and the confidence thing, I think you can, you can have confidence. You know, momentum is something that gets built throughout the week in preparation. I don't think it necessarily carries over confidence and playing well and, you know, getting off the field. I think that those are things that do, but we've had, you know, this conversation, which is a good one and an interesting one with some of the people that have been here. But, you know, we have to have great practices for this week and how you play one week doesn't necessarily mean how you're gonna play the next, but as a player, I think you build some confidence from how you're doing the game. But I think as a team and as a unit, and we have to build that momentum back up each week. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, I just, you know, that was a situation where Arden, you know, we talked so much about working together to create ball disruption, right?  First guy in, making a tackle, second guy hammering. You know, Arden had an opportunity to help Jeff just two plays prior on a conversion, on a third down conversion. Maybe one player or two player, whatever it was a little earlier. And he, you know, he didn't execute, right? Didn't just, didn't quite get it done.   You know, we talked about these turnovers and what they can do to the game, to the ball game and, you know, short fields and special teams and all that stuff. So it was just, it was fun to see these guys working and chasing and finally hitting. And I had a good view of it too. So that's probably why. Thanks, guys. Until that moment, I guess, played the Colts the first time around, imagine you prepared that way. How much did those studies maybe help you going into, going into this one? Good, yeah, it was nice to, for the first time, you know, study a team and have that kind of come back to you and realize that, think about the things that worked and didn't work and, you know, how we're going to intern response this time around. So this is the interesting part of the year when you get to play those second divisional games and knowing that we talk about it's always going to be a street fight, you know, that we're coming to play our best ball. We know each other as teams. So it just makes everything that much more important. This is where they selected. That was one that you were really projected to go to. Do you remember some of the meetings and things that you had with the Colts and how that went? Yeah, I thought they went well. And I thought there was definitely a shot that I would be going there. And I think kind of right up until that draft day, like both Anthony and I were kind of like, it was going to be like, we don't know. And it was, I thought that it was a good chance, but obviously it didn't work out. And luckily, I ended up here. You had a chance to converse with all the other quarterbacks in your class. What did you think of Anthony Richardson and whatever time you had? Yeah, I mean, I played him once as a starter and just very impressed with him, just what he's able to do with the ball. I mean, he's gifted. And obviously he's not playing for the rest of this year. And I would have loved to compete against him, but Gardner's a heck of a quarterback. And I was able to watch him do a lot of great things against us and throughout the film we've been able to see of his. But Anthony's a great dude. I mean, I was able to meet his family too when I was down there for the draft and they're great people. And I wish him the best. How's attitude just mindset been this week coming off a win, knowing six games left still got a chance to make it interesting down this draft? Yeah, I mean, we don't need examples of why we need to work and have the mindset that we're still in this. But just looking at it as recently as last year, the Jags being a similar spot in the same record at the same point, making the playoffs. I mean, you never know what's going to happen. So we come in here every day just working to win the next one. And we know if we can just stack some together, then we can make something happen here. So that's encouraging. But regardless of our record, we're going to come and work the same way. Mike was talking about when a play that you've put in recently works something that's relatively new to the playbook as opposed to something that's been a staple from the beginning. I know you take whatever works. But when you see something like that come to fruition, is there a little bit of an extra charge about it? Yeah, that's special because I mean, when you have a game plan specific play that maybe is not as sound as a concept, it might look on paper. But just because of the response that you might be expecting to get and they nail it, I mean, I feel awesome. I don't design the plays. I can't imagine what those guys in there are feeling. So that's great. And for every one of those, there might be one that doesn't work. But when they do hit, it's a great feeling. How translatable is what Brian did skill set wise to what you do? Do you look at that and see yourself, or is that kind of a one for one? I mean, I see what he did right and try to follow that. But ability-wise, I wouldn't say like I'm trying to copy what he's doing, but more so on a decision-making and timing-wise. I think he did a good job against them that first game. Obviously showed in the stat line, but I think just overall he played a really clean game, that game, and it didn't show up in the score, but hopefully we can play as clean as a game just like that and eliminate the couple of mistakes that happened so that we can come up on top. How much, when you're in a situation where, like on Sunday, a lot of times there were four rookies in the huddle, including yourself, and you can go down and you do what you guys did at the end of the half and get that field goal with 30 seconds on the clock. How much does that kind of validate, trusting the process and you guys working together and learning together? Yeah, I mean, it's awesome for like the end of half, the down-down clock situation that we work a lot, going back even to training camp and for it to come to a game for us to execute it and then for us to nail the field goal.  And when there are four newer guys in the huddle like that, it makes it feel, you know, that much better. Art and I say, in the circle, and you broke them down and you told them about dogs and playing like dogs, you know, for you as a younger guy, and where does that comfort level and that confidence come from to be able to tell all these veterans what you told them? I think I'm still trying to figure out my leadership style. Like, I'm slowly, I guess, kind of feeling out my involvement in that area, but I mean, I'm just trying to be myself and speaking from the heart and speaking in a way that I feel like could bring others up and try not to be corny and just be authentic and that's all I can be. So I just try to give them a little message and hopefully it gets through to some guys.  I think this week, actually a couple of teammates like even helped me like push me on like, hey, like they break us down, like get us going like and to hear that from guys and to know that like they're pushing me to be in that more type of role that helped me a lot, but I think it's just a slow process of, you know, figuring out my style of leadership and being authentic and doing whatever I can to get the guys ready to go out and play. What pushed you to do? Arden was one of those guys in the locker room that day, but even throughout the week, like with breaking down stuff and communicating and getting the guys together, Coach Varela made a big emphasis after, you know, team periods to get the whole offense together and run through the tape and evaluate it right there on the field for the first time just to kind of get the corrections and the knee-jerk reactions to the play and then, you know, we watch it again when we go back, but I think that translated into the game well and that I was able to communicate a little more comfortably with all the different position groups. So just got to keep working on that. Think about any of that stuff ahead of time, like the night before the hotel, if I hadn't changed to talk, this is what I say, or driving or is it spurting? Sometimes I think I, it wasn't spur the moment that day. Like I think that morning I knew that if I had the opportunity to come and say a message, like I knew what I was going to say. So, okay, I had the opportunity to, I was looking to take that opportunity when it happened and I'm glad I did get the opportunity. I think I saw him from a guy like DeAndre, just such a veteran in the league. It's his first year here with this team, but I feel like you guys have built that connection from the get-go. What did he talk to you? Yeah, I mean, he is just like, you know, why I love Coach Varela so much is that, you know, he pushes all of us and that standard that he holds for us is even higher than the standards that we hold for ourselves, which that's what you look for in a coach. And that's the same thing with DeAndre. Like I think maybe the first couple of weeks he gave me a little leeway, but now it's like I got to be on my stuff. And if I miss something and I miss him, he'll let me know. And you know, I'm going to do my best to not make it happen the next time or to make it happen the next time. But I love my relationship with him and we're able to speak with each other freely and I trust what he sees. And we've got to make sure that we're on a similar level so that I can get him the ball more. I showed a small social media clip to the defense with mac and cheese thing. I don't know if you heard it. But it was a big hit. And really hit the theme and was sticky. But I asked him if he ever falls flat on his face and he said plenty of times he has to say like it's okay to laugh that was meant to be a joke. You remember any times where he put something up and got like a zero reaction and... No, I think coach does a good job of bringing up clips that are relative to what's going on. I think someone came up to Thanksgiving dinner making their own mac and cheese and that didn't fly with mama and she let her know. And so that kind of was in relationship to what was going on with us was to not go on and do our own stuff and to play together as a team.  I felt like in the last few weeks we'd lost that kind of swagger that we had and we got to be walking around a field knowing that we got it. And I feel like we got some of that energy this past Sunday we got to keep it going. How much fun is it when there's a laugh moment like that that makes the thing? Yeah, it helps you get through the days, you know? You need those laughs and Coach Fraves is a good job of mixing them in when it's least expected too.  I see you out here with no pants, no sleeves. You said you sweat a lot during training camp when you're hot. Is that just like natural for you? I just, I'm more comfortable sleeveless. Like I don't know like wearing a long sleeve when I'm throwing and stuff just doesn't feel the same but I try to go sleeveless whenever I can but I think it's a product of where I'm from like growing up in the Northeast like I'm not afraid of the cold but yeah, if it gets below like 20 you might see me in a long sleeve but we'll see. Thank you for joining me. Thank you.


The Charleston Gazette Mail is a West Virginia news outlet that decided to publish an op-ed from Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders Titled let's stand together to protect working families now They also promoted said article via Twitter saying Senator Sanders says we need every Democrat Calls from Manchin to support the Build Back Better Build. So let me just pause for a moment and reflect on how awesome this is Bernie Sanders had an op-ed published in In Manchin's state. He's going into Manchin's home turf and he's calling out Joe Manchin He's telling Joe Manchin's constituents about how he's not representing their interests That is exactly what you need to do. This is This is perfect now. Um in this op-ed Bernie Sanders He goes through and he explains specifically what is in the Build Back Better Act Why people need it how this will benefit people in West Virginia and uh, he ends by saying this We're going to read a couple of paragraphs this reconciliation bill is being opposed by every Republican in Congress as well as the drug companies The insurance companies the fossil fuel industry and the billionaire class They want to maintain the status quo in which the very rich get richer while ordinary Americans continue to struggle to make ends meet I believe that now is the time finally For congress to stand up for working families and have the courage to take on the big money interests and wealthy campaign contributors Who have so much power over the economic and political life of our country? Poll after poll shows overwhelming support for this legislation Yet the political problem we face is that in a 50-50 Senate, we need every democratic senator to vote. Yes We now only have 48 two democratic senators remain in opposition including senator Joe Manchin of west virginia In other words, dear people of west virginia. This is your senator These are the policies that he is denying you What are you going to do about it? Are you going to keep electing someone like this who very clearly is aligning with the wealthy campaign contributors? Because this is what Bernie Sanders is saying. He's calling out their corruption here. The people who are against this They're doing so at the behest of their donors in the pharmaceutical industry and the fossil fuel industry So Joe Manchin is very clearly taking a stand against you. These policies benefit you a medicare expansion paid family leave Maternity leave these are things that I know you want, but your senator is denying you of these things That's what Bernie Sanders is doing and it's powerful and you know, it's powerful because Joe Manchin was absolutely furious So he actually decided to quote tweet the promotional post for the op-ed Which featured the quote from Bernie Sanders and he attached his own statement Which reads this isn't the first time an out of stator has tried to tell west virginians What is best for them despite having no relationship to our state? Millions of jobs are open supply chains are strained and unavoidable inflation taxes are draining workers hard-earned wages As the price of gasoline and groceries continues to climb always so concerned about workers Senator Sanders answer is to throw more money on an already overheated economy While 52 other senators have grave concerns about this approach to be clear again Congress should proceed with caution on any additional spending and I will not vote for a reckless expansion of government programs No op-ed from a self-declared independent socialist is going to change that he's coping so hard right now and you love to see it I mean if you have to cite your agreement with republicans the anti-vax stop the steel party To try to prove a point to your constituents after you've been embarrassed by someone who actually is fighting for them You kind of know that you're on the losing side of the argument there mansion But Joe mansion, he can't really respond To the substance of what Bernie Sanders is saying if you read the op-ed I'll link to it down below It is mostly consisting of an explanation of what these policies are and how they will help Americans and the people of west virginia So mansion isn't going line by line and trying to debunk what Bernie Sanders is saying He's not saying no, you don't actually need this medicare expansion. No, you don't need This or that he's just saying oh well, you're an out of state or you don't know what we're dealing with But that's not very persuasive and Bernie Sanders is speaking to the substance here And it's really hard to reason against bernie's argument considering that these policies are all extremely popular As illustrated by the cbs news in you gov poll. So he told joe mansion's constituents What's in the bill? It includes all of these things. They're incredibly popular And now he put joe mansion in a position to where he has to say Yeah, I am actually denying you all of these wonderful things It's it's great because bernie sanders effectively has backed joe mansion into a corner and joe mansion can try to fain concern for his constituents Oh, well, you know gasoline prices are up, but at the end of the day, these are things that they need This isn't reckless spending. These are things that are vital And they would help your constituents and you are the one single-handedly Who's denying it to them along with kirsten cinemas? So not single-handedly, but you're one of the two people who need to get on board Bernie Sanders just called you out on your home turf and no matter what you do You can't look better After the situation So, I mean you're not going to come out on top The best thing that we can hope for is that the people of west virginia Acknowledge that they have a senator who's not looking out for them They have two senators who couldn't care less about them They're only representing their donors and bernie sanders is educating them showing them This is the reality of the situation joe mansion isn't fighting for you. He's saying you can't have all of these things It's not because he cares about the budget or the deficit or reckless spending He's representing his donors bernie sanders made that very clear and now joe mansion is trying to save face, but He looks terrible and he should look terrible His constituents should know that a corporate shill is their senator and he doesn't care about them He cares about his donors. He cares about corporate america


This paper proposes a novel two-stage approach for enhancing and super-resolving remote sensing images. The first stage uses a vision transformer, VIT, to increase the resolution of the image. The second stage employs an iterative diffusion model, DM, to further improve the quality of the image. The VIT helps generate global and contextual details while the DM helps to enhance the image quality and generate consistent and harmonious fine details. This two-stage approach outperforms existing state-of-the-art methods on super-resolution of remote sensing images. This article was authored by Ana Semali, Bilal Benjdeira, Anise Kuba, and others.